The Art of Photography With Stanley Aryanto

Hey Wicked Hunters,  I'm so excited to share this week's podcast with someone who's a master in storytelling.  Subodh is a photographer who left his job to pursue his passion for photography. In this podcast, he shares how he came across many challenges to staying afloat during the pandemic. He thought he had to let go of working on his passion for photography.  But during the toughest time, Subodh finds the courage to push on and pivot to stay true to his purpose. Subodh is a master of storytelling both through words and photography. A true inspiration.  You can find more of Subodh work on: https://twitter.com/SubodhShettyyy https://linktr.ee/SubodhShettyy  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr    For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe --------- Transcription: 0:00   Need, something else shows up? You know, that's how light works, you know, if you're true to what you do, and especially after COVID, I realised, you know, I said, the COVID story is a long story. And I literally thought that's the end of my whole journey, you know, the photography, end of it, let's go back to work, because I'm done. But that's when something happens. You know, a number of things have happened in COVID Unexpected jobs, some unexpected awards, I don't even participate in photography competitions. But during that time, there was no option I had to participate so that I can earn some money out of it and sustain myself till the COVID goes away. So I won awards, I got unexpected jobs from really big, big corporate companies, which kept me afloat, and then came NFT. And it completely changed the game. So whenever you feel that's it, that's the end of it. Just know that it's just a passing phase, and it will be okay. So yeah, follow your passion, everything's gonna be okay. 1:03   Here we go. Hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey, and how they find hope, purpose and happiness, true photography. And today, we have somebody who's very, you know, very iconic in the NFT world, and he is someone who have such an incredible work, both in all kinds of genre, and I am so honoured to have him here, because, you know, he runs a lot of Twitter spaces. And for those of you who are not in Twitter, it's basically a place for us to voice hang out around each other. And he got one of the craziest story. So this is one of the reasons why I want him here to share some of the story in, you know, not only to intrigue you, but also in hope that you can draw inspiration from where he had gone through. So let's welcome to both Shetty both how're you doing Welcome to the Art of Photography 2:03   podcast. I certainly. And hi to everyone listening. So nice to be here. It's always interesting to get a chance to share your story because that's what we do. You know, we are storytellers, and they can never be enough that we can speak about our journey as well as our art. So it's good to be here. 2:23   Ya know, like, absolutely. And I think you're really good with storytelling is something that, you know, every time I hear you talk, I always try to learn and pick up the way you tell a story. It's just so, so intriguing, and really keep you on the edge. So I really enjoy that. So hey, no doubt 2:45   that he said that because I was keep wondering if I make people bored in my spaces with my stories, you know, because sometimes I go all over the place because I am a guy who's very curious. And I'm not a guy who just sticks to photography. I go everywhere, you know, I am into cosmic stuff, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Carl Sagan and all that. I'm towards the other side. I watch a lot of podcasts, including all this Joe Rogan stuff. So yeah, I go everywhere. So I bring everything to the table. Wherever I can connect the dots. I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. This makes sense. So sometimes I wonder if my storytelling is all random. But I'm glad that makes sense. 3:22   Well, it's, it's interesting, right? Because a lot of people have different kind of take to it. But I'm, I'm very similar to you. I love hearing like, I get curious very easily. And I love to explore. So when you should, you know, tell a different thing about a totally different thing about the initial story that we were talking about, I actually get really intrigued about it. So I don't know if it's just me, but I'm sure you know, a lot of people are on your space. I'm sure they are really enjoy it. But um, you know, you you made a lot of success in the NFT world. And I can say that you're one of the person who helped shape the NFT world right. Now, before we kind of get into that. And, you know, like your amazing photography, not only in wildlife and other genre, just tell us a little bit about who is both, you know, and how did you get started with photography? 4:20   Third, no, I'm, I come from a corner in India, which is South India, there's a small little town called Manipal. So that's where it comes from. Manipal is known for its educational universities and everything. It's spread across the world, including the place I'm right now in Dubai. So even in Dubai, we got a Manipal University, which comes from my back door. So yeah, it's very famous place for education. That's where I come from. And as far as you know, my photography goes, I came to Dubai in 2009 in search of a job at that point, I had no photography in my life. So I came to look for a job because just to go uh you know, find something which is worthwhile came to the why and I had a pharmaceutical degree. So I got into this pharma field and I used to be the pharma business and yeah, eventually device is a beautiful country city with a lot of wonderful cityscapes and Burj Khalifa and whatnot, it's very well organised and very much ready for photographers to explore. So in between all that, you know, there was Facebook, which is quite new at that time, and in Facebook, I would see that photographers from Dubai are posting pictures of Dubai in a very beautiful way. And yeah, we all know, you know, photography versus our eye, there's a difference. Because in photography, there's editing this blue hour, this golden hour, which is not that vibrant in our normal life, you know, we just see it in real way. So that photos really got me I'm like, Wow, man, these people are creating some standards. And I think I shouldn't be creating the same because they're all next to me, you know, this all wonderful structures. And that's how I began photography, I got a camera, and it was just a Nikon three, one double zero, which is the most basic camera can buy. Because it's not so sure, because there have been phases in my life, where I've got a guitar, for instance, before photography, I got a guitar, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna learn music and I failed miserably. And I realised, I should be more careful because that guitar was very expensive one, and then it's of no use, because I can't play the guitar. So I'm like, I'm not gonna do the same mistake with my photography. So I got a very, very cheap camera with a kit lens and explored the streets of Dubai, shooting all the cityscapes and everything. And then I realised, okay, there's something in this photography, which clicks for me, you know, I have some kind of an eye for it. Because I would always, even in my real life, you know, whatever I do, even right now, as I speak to you, there is keyboard in front of me, there is mouse in front of me, there's the airport in front of me, even when they're on the table, I like to keep it organised, I don't want it to be scattered all over the place, that compositional thing is always in me, keeping things in order. So that's exactly what I did with photography, I was trying to create a order in those chaos. And I realised there is something called composition, which comes to me naturally, and I took it took advantage of it. And we may hit Facebook today. But Facebook is where I got all the encouragement. During my beginning days, there used to be a lot of photography groups, and I would take my, you know, beginner style images and post on the group. And they would give me feedbacks. And I learned a lot through that process. And I realised that, you know, it's a bunch of people who are creating all these things for nothing but happiness, you know, just for the sake of feeling good. And I realised this is a nice place to be. And that's how it all began. Eventually, he wants you in every picture I took during those days in the beginning, this would be 301, double zero, then I got a wide angle lens, I would pop up a ND filter on it, and 1000 which is like crazy, high amount of nd I wanted everything to be a five minute exposure, nothing less would do. So that was my initial phase. And then I eventually started getting bored of it. I'm like, Is that the end of my photography? I'm not connecting to it anymore. So then one of my friends told me into street photography, I said, No, I'm not interested. I don't want to do streets. Because Dubai has two sides. One is the Burj Khalifa and the buildings. Other side is the old Dubai with real people doing real things on the streets. People mean, he said, Come over, just try streets once, maybe you will like it. And I tried it. And that was the life changing moment, I would say in photography, because I completely quit the cityscapes and got into street photography, meeting people talking to them, having some tea with them taking their portraits, you know, everything is a chaos and in between that you're finding some gems that really clicked for me. And that's how my photography began. And then eventually you start meeting the right people connecting with a small bunch of you create your own small little group and then you start going out more and more, it becomes something that you look forward to, you know, you pretend to work for five days during the week, just looking forward to that two days of weekend when you can go out and shoot again. That gives the boost which is incredible, I'm sure in every photographer understand. Yeah, no, 9:07   I totally it's like a getaway for us. Right? It's a way to be free and be ourselves and be able to express ourselves. Now that's that's really interesting. I don't think I've heard that side of you know, of the long exposure part so you're really intrigued with the really extra long exposure creating that really smooth scene and then you turn into street photography and that kind of sparked your your idea. I mean, your your love for photography. Now. What are you know, like, I guess when you say you tried guitar before, and I'm sure as someone who loves to explore everything, right? I'm sure there's a lot of things that you like to try in the past. So what make you stay in photography, like what what is different compared to guitar and other thing that you have? pursued and try and, you know, want to be good at? 10:04   Yeah, I mean, one, there are a couple of things, you know, if I have to again, go back to those days, when I got into streets, what made me connect to the streets is the stories that comes along, you know, because you don't just meet a person, you meet a building you I mean, not made, you see a build, take a picture that's about it, there's no conversation, it looks great, it gets a lot of whatever, Marie shares and everything, but still, you're not communicating anything really interesting there. But in case of people, every time I point a camera, you know, even before you point a camera to a person, there will be a small conversation, can I take a picture of you, this and that, and then there'll be some jokes, and people usually get nervous. And all those little things which you navigate as you get to the point where you take a picture, that's very, very interesting for me, because I get to learn a lot. And I come from India, and in Dubai, it's a mix of India and Pakistan, and all kinds of nationalities, Egyptians and whatnot. You know, everyone, there are 170 nationalities in UAE. So you have a chance to communicate with so many people, and sometimes you you you can make a picture, without even knowing the language, you know, if it's India or Pakistan, I can talk in my language, Hindi, and they will get to know what I'm trying to say. But there are certain times when you meet a Chinese, they don't talk a word of English, how do you communicate, I still want this picture. That navigation, you know, makes it a lot of fun, you know, do you just realise that humans are humans, you know, it's, it's so much fun. No, you explore the psychology and how it all works. And at the end of it, you know, you bring a smile on their face, you have a smile on your face by the end of it. And even eventually, as that thing progressed, and I realised that I love people, I love to shoot people, but they're still in my mind, maybe just another face, you know, I liked long exposure of city that accepted to STS, maybe there's something else I need to do, maybe I still not found that real side of my photography. And that's how I realised that I should travel and travel to the Himalayas, my very first trip was to the Himalayas, and in India, and when I went to the Himalayas, it's my first time seeing all the snow peaks and everything. I took all my wide angles, and ND filters and everything, because I thought maybe this is the real face of my photography, where I'll put a nd take a picture of this Himalayan peaks, and I'll be so connected. But then I realised you went to Himalaya, I was interacting with people more, I was enjoying meeting those locals more than the mountains. I enjoy seeing the mountains, I love that lack of oxygen, it makes me feel more alive, weirdly. But what really connected to me was the locals, you know, the people on the land. So again, I realised people are my strength, you know, I need to do this more and more and more, and it gives me wings, you know, because throughout my life, I don't know how it works in your country. But in India, we are always busy with study, study, study till one point and you get your degree and then you go out and start working. There's no real exploration happening there, you know, nowadays is changing. But before during our times, I feel I'm not that old to say during our times, that is the 1990s There are still no such concept as to ask you get your education, you're also travelling and exploring none of those things. You just study, study, study, and you get a degree, you're into job, and then you just live that normal life. But here, it gives me a chance to explore the world for the first time and all because of just one little thing in my hand, which is camera, which gave me all the excuse. And I began travelling like a lot, it is literally a viral infection. Now once I took the flight and went to Himalayas, I'm like where next? You know, and I still had a job, full time job. And I would still make sure that I find excuses, take some leaves of the job and get out and make this travels happen. I went to many, many places in India, Sri Lanka, and Nepal, one after the other, I started taking off places from my from my bucket list. So yeah, this connects connecting with people and excuse to travel to a new place, meet new people, and understand the culture, you know, it completely changes your perspective towards the world. I think that's what keeps me going. It kept me going to the extent where in 2017, you know, 2010 is when I took photography 2017, seven years of managing photography, and my corporate job came to a standstill in English like either choose this or choose that you can't do both. Now we know it because it won't justify either often. So that's when I gave up on my full time job. And I in 2017, I became a full time photographer, I put up my own company in Dubai, which is quite expensive to do and quite a risk to take. And since then, I've been doing photography workshops, which again is an important factor which keeps my photography going because I know that whatever I create, it's one thing to just put it on social media this and that getting the likes and followers and whatever. But also at the same time you're creating a bigger impact which is inspiring others to take up the same passion because a lot of people have cameras. It's not a big deal. Everyone has a camera now, but making them step out of their comfort zone, making them travel with me so that I can show them what I see how I feel, why it's so important to capture these people that is a catalyst, which keeps me going. And that's why I do photography workshops full time, that's my full time job now. So as such kind of motivation, there's nothing that can stop it. Yeah, wow, that's, that's 15:20   inspiring. And, you know, like, I totally can resonate with that, you know, having to being told that the only way to succeed in life is to go to school, get a good grade, and then you go to a good university and get good grades, get good job, get married, buy a house, and you die, right. And, honestly, like, I didn't know any other way of life until like, when I was 30. And that's when I left my career as a mechanical engineer. And, you know, I didn't even know what I was doing. But I, I know that it's not what I wanted to do. And I know that I love photography. So I totally can resonate with what you meant, you know, especially. And like, when you look at the Western culture, it's a little bit different, right. And they're encouraged to explore and take a gap year before before the, the before they full time work and stuff like that. So they can actually figure out what they want to do in life, whether they like that lifestyle, or whether they like the nine to five, which nothing too, nothing wrong with it at all. But I think the worst thing is when you do something that is not you, right, and just have that, that conflict within yourself, but really love what you shared there. And one thing that I really admire with you is the storytelling, right? I said this earlier, now you normally you do storytelling through words, but also through your photography. Now, I want to get into a little bit more of that. So when you go out there, right, whether it's on the street, whether it's the building, whether it's the wildlife, or the landscape and travels. How do you translate what you see? And how do you translate that into a frame that tell us story? 17:09   Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Because storytelling is always debated. In photography, even now, in Twitter spaces. There's always every second day that someone comes up and says, Your photo should do the talking. Artists should not add descriptions. I'm like, No, you have to add your descriptions. Because, you know, because we are storytellers, what's what's this? You know, what's the point, you know, without any story, just a beautiful image is common, you know, it's everywhere. What makes the picture special is the story which comes behind it, because it's the artistic emotion that comes along with it. So when I think one of the common mistakes that people do, even I did before, and I learned from that, through experience, is when you're telling, trying to tell a story, don't just tell the story of what's in front of you, you know, if I'm taking a picture of, for instance, in order to do a quick example, one of my NFT was a wildlife image of a lioness with her cups, you know, it's a single frame with one lioness and three cups next to her. My story could have been here is a lioness in Maasai Mara, in Kenya, sitting on a termite hill and watching the sunrise or whatever, that would be straightforward, because anyone who sees the picture, that story is there, you know, they will, they can read it, it's common knowledge. So you don't have to tell something which is already there. Tell something beyond that, you know, tell what you feel about it. Take it around, you know, in a different manner. For instance, in that picture, my story was about Lion King. You know, I connected the Movie Lion King, which we all know the Disney movie, in that movie, lion is the king and lioness is completely ignored. Because it's a lioness. It's all about the king what he does, and blah, blah, blah, fighting with his brother. I don't know the story exactly. But it's all about the lion as the hero. But in real life, when you see wildlife photography, when you see these lions and real, it's never about the Lion King. You know, it's always about the Queen, because she's the one who hunts, who brings food for the whole family. She's the one who protects the kids. She's also the one who manages to keep lion in check. The King is kept in check by the lioness because they can misbehave sometimes. So it's all run by the Queen, and no one talks about it. So here I had a chance to tell that story that Disney had some in no like knowledge of how the animal world works, they would make this lion is the real king of that movie and not the lion acid as a whole. So that's the kind of narrative doesn't have to be always straightforward. Here is this thing and that's about it. Take it in other direction, tell what you feel about it. You know, as I'm shooting. I'm always thinking, you know, my mind is such I told you I'm a very, very curious guy and always thinking in different different ways. Even when I look at a lion or a cheetah or a leopard when I'm shooting them. I'm thinking of their mind, you know, like what they should be thinking right now. I'm never looking at a straightforward picture. I'm always looking in different different ways. For instance, a fly comes and sits on the face of a leopard I keep in mind The thing I keep looking at its eyes, what's its reaction to the flight as it walks around its face? What is it thinking right now, you know, that's the kind of thing I'm building in my head. And if I put that picture out tomorrow, I'll maybe talk about the flight and the leopard together, rather than tell it that we're sitting in a bush. Now, that's very boring. So I always take it in different different directions, a whole image description of a leopard, where I didn't talk of the leopard, I just wrote about its tail. Because the tail of a leopard is always it has its own language, it's always moving with its thoughts. And you can always see, when it's more curious, it moves in one way, when it's very bold, it moves in another way. So I wrote a story just about the tale of the leopard. I didn't even talk about the leopard itself. So those are the things you know, storytelling is very important. It's your narrative. And your job as a photographer is to tell the story, otherwise, how will you be remembered? Not by your 10,000 likes, not by your 1 million followers, you will be remembered by your stories. 20:57   Yeah, wow. That's, that's very profound. And it's really good to share that. And I think it's, it's a new perspective as well to kind of think about it from a different perspective. And I mean, I myself learn from that a lot, being able to look at a scenery, something that could happen, but tell it from a perspective of a different, different, different way, not only what you see, and that's really cool, I really enjoy that. Thanks for sharing that even for 21:26   instance, when I went to Everest base camp, I had a bunch of pictures which I created, I posted them on Instagram, and this and that. And during that time, again, the same thing came to my mind, okay, I went to Everest base camp, what do I say I brag about being in Everest base camp? What do I do with the storyline, and I was thinking about it. And as well, as I was walking to Everest base camp for those 10 days, I have to look at the people around me, like I said, you know, I look at a flight sitting on a leopard. So here, I have like 100 people in front of me. So I observe each one of them what's going through their mind, there's a small kid walking the Everest base camp. This is a two year old male who's walking the rest to Everest base camp. There are a lot of investors wanting to rush Basecamp. I'm thinking of all their stories, why they are here know what they're trying to do what they're trying to achieve. So I wrote a story about that, you know how it's not about me making it to Everest base camp. It's about why any one of us take that journey, whether it's Basecamp, or whatever it could be whatever the face of your life, why do we take that journey? You know, I wrote a story about the why of why we travel, and what it means to each one of those individuals. So the stories can be taken in many, many ways. Rather than say, I went to a rich base camp, and I made this image, I can take it in my own direction, my own emotions. So yeah, we have the subconscious of thoughts. In always, we're thinking, there's a second voice in our head, each one of us have that voice. Just note the note down those voices. Because every time you start giving some thought to that voice, you're hearing the story line, which you're building, as you're noting them down, you know, most of us unconsciously forget what our second mind was saying, you know, when you're pointing your camera at whatever it could be pointing it your mind. Second mind is always doing the other narrative in your head, if you just give it some thoughts, and put a mental note to that you have a story right there. That's the other side of the story, then what you're looking at? 23:15   Wow, that is so much value, right? There's so much wisdom, and I really love that. And, you know, just going to that storytelling, and you know what you say about the second mind. We talked you talked about how they are the obvious and they are the thing that that come into the story, right, the secondary and tertiary and the things that not necessarily been the main focus, not the the main, grand, grandest, most obvious thing. Now. We know that, you know, in this world, in this era, right now, there is so many different types of distraction, right, our phone is keep buzzing, and then somebody's calling and, you know, we got our, our iPod, our iPhone, and you know, some people you have even like multiple phones and all this stuff. So how do you kind of separate that separate? The, you know, like, kind of isolate yourself in in this moment, so that you could hear and listen and explore what's in front of you? 24:24   Yeah, I mean, I do deep space photography. And in deep space photography, we have a term called signal to noise, which is how much of signal and how much of noise are you capturing? So I think that's the same thing here. You know, cut the noise, you know, there will be a lot of distractions, whether it's NFT side of the world, you see how many dramas run there every single day. I don't indulge in those dramas. I read them. I move on this AI conversation going on right now. What is AI whether AI is art, or is not art. I have my opinion. If I have a space, maybe I'll talk about it. And that's about it. Beyond that. I don't go are, you know, going into every tweet and commenting on everyone and trying to prove that they are wrong? I am right. The moment you start doing into getting into that business, you're wasting your time, you know, your time is valuable, and your energy is important. So yeah, just trying to avoid all those nonsense we know even Instagram, there is a real nowadays, people are doing all kinds of shit on that Instagram nowadays, know, wonderful artists are lost their track, you know, they're doing whatever it takes to get that little followers and views and million, whatever. So I don't even give a damn I do my reels, but in my own way now very classy way in a very cinematic way. I said, I will never get into that business of me walking with the camera, and then the transition happens. I am like, I don't need all that, you know, that's not the kind of artists that I am. So you have to just choose your poison, you know, and choose your path. A lot of my friends say you're missing out on Instagram by not doing really, if you keep posting your wonderful cinematic videos, no one cares about them. If you put all your images, no one cares about it. I'm like, doesn't matter. I don't care. If it's 100 people liking my image or 1000 people liking my image doesn't matter. Whoever connects connects, or doesn't doesn't, I'll just let it be. You know, that's one of the things I do in my life, or just as being stoic. If you can't control something, just let it go. Don't break your head over it, you know. So I think that itself solves half of the issues. Otherwise, yeah, there is a lot of things. there's Twitter, there's Instagram, there's a little bit of Facebook, there's vero now new software, social media. And there is what WhatsApp and telegram and how many things are gonna manage. If you put if you intelligence into all these things. Even I have my friends, you know, I'm sure I hope he doesn't listen to this. But if he doesn't, that's fine. But we, me and him, we were both photographers. And before, you know, before I came into nfts, and everything we used to, during especially COVID days, we used to have a lot of wonderful friends. But we disagree on many things. And we used to have a lot of arguments on WhatsApp, very passionate, not like we are punching each other on face. It's just opinions. And it could be about COVID. Or it could be about vaccine and whatever. And we would argue a lot to and fro to and fro to and fro could go on and on and on forever. And now I realised that while I was doing that, it's a waste of time. Now, whenever he sends me something like that, I just have a common response. You are right, even though I don't believe in it. I just say you're right. And that's it, then what what else is left to say? He's right, nothing to argue about. So I just let it be, you know, now I learned that style of just letting it go. If you want to think you're right, you're right. Enjoy the madness. And let's move on, you know, so Yeah, time is very, very valuable. And I'm trying to now figure out ways to not waste my time on noise. Stick to the signal, signal to noise is very, very important. That is incredible. 27:51   And yeah, like, you know, there is there is a saying that, you know, in order to win the war, sometimes you have to lose a fight, right. And then sometimes you just have to let go and, and sometimes letting go is the best way to win. So that's very wise of you to kind of share that. And I really 28:11   love something. We all have opinions. And we're all passionate about our opinions. But it doesn't mean you could just go and bounce everywhere your opinions, you know, just give it when it has to be given. If you just go around 100,000 times running around with your opinion, then you're just being a joke, you know, so just keep it to yourself. It's okay to not always have everyone agree to you, you know, it's okay, we are humans. And there's always agree to disagree which happens. And most often. The moment you stay away from this madness, you have more time to do something else. People ask how do you I have so much of time to run spaces? How do you have so much time to go out and shoot and to make all this photography trips? That's exactly because of this reason? And I don't I use my time for space because I save that time by not arguing with someone else outside. So why don't you start saving time somewhere? You can invest it in the right place. 29:04   Yeah, that's absolutely important, right, focusing on the right things in life that give you the energy and give you the positivity. And that's great. And I think one thing that I want to get into a little bit deeper is what you said earlier about the social media, right? How the social media kind of drive that attention and drive, how people are putting out content and are and how people are consuming it. Now, I know that the social media is, you know, with everything that happened is one of the biggest source that creates impostor syndrome, one of the biggest source that create this lack, right because what people see on social media is it's never it's almost never like what it's in real life. It's the highlight of everyone's real right. I mean, even peep when people share The struggles like I do share a lot of my struggles on social media. But even that, like you don't know what I had to actually go through behind the curtain, you know, just to share that one thing, right? So what what do you what do you have to say for people who are kind of hitting this wall of imposter syndrome and, you know, searching for followers and looking for ways to, to get more exposure, because I think there are two different view of this, which is, you know, it's important to get the exposure and get your, you know, social media kind of have the engagement and so forth. Because a lot of times, that's when you get your sales, or that's when you get your next opportunity. You know, there aren't a lot of opportunity associated with the exposure you get on social media. But at the same time, there is also the negativity behind that, where it actually bring down, you know, the way you feel even the way you react to the world and behave as a person. So how do you have anything to say about how to find a balance and how to treat social media from that sense? 31:18   Yeah, I think I would be the last person to talk about social media, because I never followed I like I said, I never followed any of those norms of social media, and Instagram, there was a time when, as tax, you know, I have my own friends who used to use certain apps, which would create hashtags for them every single day, depending on what's the most happening hashtags. They would say, use this app, use this hashtag. I'm like, I'll not use a single hashtag, I don't care. No, that's my way. I don't care if they like me, or if they don't follow me. I just don't care. And that's the reason my Instagram is still below 20,000. You know, like, it's taken eight years, nine years to reach that 20,000 Because I'm not never pushing it. Well, my friends, maybe they have 100,000 followers, who cares? You know, I don't give a damn, you know, that 19,000 is also we know how Instagram works, you know, 556 1000 of them would be fake profiles. Maybe I have, let's say 10,000 actual followers, that's enough for me, you know, that's my little crowd. I'm happy with that. And, you know, I really don't care much. I don't use any of those hashtags. Like I told I don't do any of those trending reels, I do it my own way. And I never get into, you know, you had to post it this time of the day, you have to put post at this time of the night to get the maximum reach. I'm like, I don't give a fuck, I will post whenever I want. You know, I don't care. So that's been always me. And that continues to be me. Even in Twitter. There's a lot of algorithm things people talk about don't retweet too much. I'm like, I'll read it. 100 people every day, I don't care. Don't go to it too much. I'll record record with everyone. I don't care. So yeah, I mean, I just don't care. That's been my way. Even Twitter. I'm surprised. You know, it grew very fast. I came in January. And today, it's what December, almost 910 months awkward. So I never expected all these things to happen in Twitter, I just came in thinking, okay, and other social media, and I'm just gonna be me, you know, again, I'll never put any hashtags. And never do anything time based or anything that helps the algorithm, I'll do everything it takes not to feed algorithm, I'll do whatever I want. That's all you know, I don't care about algorithm and everything. We have spaces on this topic where people discuss, and I'm the bad guy there because I say do whatever the hell you want. Don't care about the algorithm. If the shadow venue, they'll bring you back not a problem. So yeah, that's been my way. I'm the last person to talk about social media and never let it really influence me too much. And, yeah, you had to just create your own piece with social media, if you just chase, if you look at others getting 1 million views or 10 million views on tick tock. And if you want the exact same thing to happen to you, you're wasting your energy, you know, just do good work, keep posting them up, and enjoy the process, rather than worrying about things you can't control. So yeah, I don't really I'm not the person to talk about social media at all. Yeah, well, I 34:08   think you have talked a lot about social media and I think that's very important to have. You know, I personally still believe that it's important to have the exposure but I think it's important to have that mindset as well of sticking to your own thing and not diluting your value right I think that is I see that a lot of people like you say a lot of good creators are no longer an artist in social media because the reels is you know, more and more people get attracted to 34:38   reels. The world is growing. 34:41   There you go. And, you know, and and it's I think it's okay to have that in social media. But, you know, when when you are an artist and you do too much of that then are what what are you doing right, you weren't that's not the reason you're here. It's different, you know, 34:57   disclose that in the difference. There are two kinds of creators, one who just lowers and likes and reads. And maybe that's their, that's what you need, do whatever it takes, then there's other kinds, who doesn't give a damn, just does whatever he likes. And when I see Instagram or any place I go, whether it's vero or Instagram, or even Twitter, you know, I know that I create a portfolio everywhere I go, I don't like to post random things, my selfies my whatever, you know, my cat, my car, I don't need all those things. I'm a photographer, and I'm going to stick only to that my voice and my language, then I'm a guy with a tattoo on my hand, which says religion, photography. So I need to take that thing seriously. So I treat it that way I can like my religion. So wherever I go, I make sure it's my portfolio and whatever people, if they visit Instagram, they'll see a clear portfolio of mine, what I do is exactly what I show. And beyond that, knows, even now I'm talking not talking to you with the camera on because that's me, I don't like to put my selfies. I don't like to do any of those self indulgent things, you know, because I'm not that guy. For me, it doesn't matter. You like my work? That's my signature. And that's about it. You know, beyond that, I can't help it. You know, and same thing with Twitter, I keep a portfolio. Same thing with vero, I keep a portfolio. So I like to keep it organised. So that another kind of photography photographer who's on social media, so if you're the first kind, if you want all the followers and likes and reach and algorithm and everything you care about, then of course, you need to play the game, which people are doing on social medias. But yeah, it's it's it's your path, you take your path, my path is this, I don't care about all that. 36:34   Yeah, that's incredible. And I think that's one of the most important thing for us to stick to is, you know, whatever feels right to us, and whatever was, you know, our own path now, you know, just kind of take it back a little bit, you know, you talk about this photography, talk about the storytelling, and how you can impact people and all this stuff. Now, if I were to ask you a one liner question, right? What is your mission in photography, like what you're hoping to bring to the world through what you've captured in the form of photographs? 37:13   Yeah, I do all kinds of photography, as you know. And wherever I do, there's always a story that I stick to, you know, whether it's wildlife, with wildlife, I'm trying to, from my own style, you know, I'm trying to create an awareness and make people appreciate this wonderful creatures, every time I speak about them, I speak with a lot of passion, I always mentioned, what's the problem happening in this field of wildlife, you know, when it comes to these animals, and I can kind of stress on how valuable they are, how little they are in this world, and how we can maybe do a small little thing and create a difference, et cetera, et cetera. So there's that, you know, I'm always I love wildlife. And from my childhood, I have been loving them. And I bring all that passion to that field. And with my portraits, I always like to tell the story of people there, you know, mostly, it's about what I learned is what I try to preach, which is when I have to travel to these corners of the world, and meet these people staying in the most humble way, and at the same time, most happiest people I ever come across. Because what I see in Dubai is miserable, you know, the people have so much of money, they're driving a Mercedes and whatever in a Lamborghini. And still, they're not happy to concede in the face. But when I go to this corner of the world, and people have literally nothing, and they're still the happiest people. So I try to communicate that, you know, there's some learning, that's my learning from these places. So wherever I go, I find those books, you know, as to what makes me go there again, and again, because I'm not a person who's ticking off all the countries in the world. And that's not my mission. I've seen some photographers do that. It's cool. If you want to visit every country in the world, that's incredible. But for me, it's always about going back to the same place. You know, once I go to a place, it's not like, I'm done, I've visited this place, it's over, I'm done with this place, I go again, and again and again, because I like to go into the depth of that place and understand the real, more and more depth of the stories behind those people and how they live and what they do. So yeah, these are the narratives that I've played with. And I think overall, you think of a broader perspective, after 50 years, what what is that I'm trying to create is just a beautiful narrative of how beautiful the spaces are. And those spaces may be very limited. Maybe I'll have 15 places explored in complete depth, rather than how 120 countries explored in 50 years. I don't want that attack, I just want those few places explored very, very well, in every sense possible, you know, so, yeah, for instance, I go to the Similan village, that's a bunch of villages around and so whenever I go, I was trying to create pictures of people and tell their stories. Then I started exploring more towards the Buddhist side of it, you know, because they're all Buddhist. And there are monasteries, first trying to understand from the monks side of life, you know, what they do, how they stay. What is their prayer rhythm, this and that, that I was trying to explore for some years now. I want to go back and explore the wild side side of it, you know, because they have snow leopards in that. So you need to go in certain times to find those snow leopards that adds another layer to that place. Every single time, you know, I try to keep on building on the same thing. So I want to be that guy who has taught maybe 15 places in absolute depth and created a nice long story through many, many years of visiting, rather than be the guy who visited 120 countries. 40:27   Yeah, that's, that's a really good thing. You know, I, I was in the same place. You know, before when I first started photography, I've been to I think, 27 countries. And after no 28. And after I started photography, for real, I've only been to an extra one country because I noticed the same way it's more interesting to go into that then all of these places, just going to the popular place, right? It's just, it's, it's incredible. When you see people just go to the main attraction, take one shot, a selfie, and then they go home, they like, don't look at the other place. You know, they didn't even go around the corner. And it's incredible. And yeah, I can totally resonate with that. Now, you know, when I want to talk a little bit about Nepal in the Himalaya, and I know how passionate you are about it. But one thing that I never heard is that what what really what really pull you about the Nepal in the Himalaya region that makes you really love that area compared to any other world? Because, you know, there are a lot of beautiful places around the world. Right. There are a lot of interesting culture everywhere. beautiful mountain tops as well as the landscape. But why Nipah? Why what keep pulling you into Nepal in the Himalaya region? 41:55   Yeah, that's a terrible question. Because I really don't know. I just don't know sometimes there are things which you can't explain. I think Himalaya is one of them. You have been to Pune. Basecamp. So you know it. So you know, my I can, that's my curious mind. I told you I look into Cosmos a lot. I look into a large number of things. And there are many sections of things that I will look into in much depth. And one of them is Himalayas. You know, if I look at my book cabinet right now, I think almost 50% is photography books. Other 50% is Himalayan books, you know, people who have climbed this wonderful mountains, I have, I've read almost every book possible in our field. And I don't even have a place to store those books anymore. Because that's how much I get intrigued by these mountains. Because the first time I saw it in my life, as I said, my travel photography began with Himalayas. The first time I put my eyes on it, I knew that okay, this is gonna be something very, very interesting for my future because I knew right then that I'm going to be coming back to this place over and over and over again. Because I don't know what's about it, you know, even when you go to Everest base camp, or you go to Annapurna base camp or any of these base camps, which is hard track, you don't really know if you think it's like you see in movies, people running around with full energy. No, you are, you are tired, you know, you are dirty, you are smelly stink like shit. So let's start painting and you know, everything is weird about that place. It makes you feel like what the fuck I'm doing here. But at the same time, I feel alive. You know, being in between all that madness. I feel good about it. So that's what I like about that particular place. It's a suffer fest, but at the same time, it makes you feel alive. I know. You're laughing a lot. I don't know what stinking part was funny, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, that's what makes Himalayas what it is, you know, lack of oxygen makes me feel good. And also, you know, like, one of my idols, you know, when it comes to I like people who live their life to the fullest without giving a damn and technically like, they know that life is so valuable. One of them is Reinhold Messner, if you know, Reinhold Messner, he is the first person to climb all 14 peaks, Himalayan peaks 8000 metres without supplementary oxygen. So I read a lot about him. Maybe I have some 20 books from him right now. Sitting in front of me as I speak. I read all of his books. I've seen every documentary that he has made. You know, these are the people who really make me want to go back to Himalayas because their passion is very contagious. And when you read the books and exactly why they go back, is exactly what you go back. I want to see everything there they have seen. So yeah, just a lot of things. You know, I said, it's very hard to explain. If you've never been to Himalayas, you'll never know. But once you go there, as I said, it is sufferfest but you'll enjoy the suffering of that place, you will come back much smarter and wiser. There's a reason why Indian monks and Nepali Buddhist monks go to the mountains to do their meditation. They can do anywhere but they still go to the extreme Himalayas, because there's something about that place which cannot be explained. 45:00   Yeah, I know it, I can, I can tell I can I can feel the same thing when I was in Annapurna. It's just something about the place that it felt magical. And the reason why I love a lot is that it always reminded me every time I go hiking, it always I always asked that question. I was like, Why? Why? Why am I here? Why do I put you through all this struggle, but as soon as you came down, you have a shower, and you just go, what is next? Right? What's the next mountain to go out to? And when you say that, it's just it cracked me up? Because it reminded me of that moment, every time you go up, and you look at this big wall in front of you, and you can't even see the summit, because they're so high and you go like, what am I doing here at 10pm at night, going into this mountain with all this crap behind me. But yeah, there's something about, you know, the achievement behind that there's something about the peacefulness behind it. And it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, one of the stories that I tell from one of the piece that I just released, it's about the freedom you get when you get out there, and it feels like, you know, everything just doesn't matter. So I can, you know, yeah, really 46:18   also, another reason for that is because, first of all, you're in a complete remote place, especially when it took off base camps and everything, you're cut off completely. There's no internet, there's nothing, you know, you just have you and maybe a guy who doesn't talk much. So you're not talking to him a lot. He just talks once in a while. So you're it's just you and the mountain and maybe a beer or a chai in your hand. And you're sitting there in the middle of nowhere. So these are the moments which we are missing right now, you know, because we're in such a fast life, social media, they send that phone buzzing all the time, in that place. You just realise that your phone, you're holding the phone, but it feels like useless. And because there's no internet, you don't know what to do with that phone in your hand. And then you throw it away and just look at what's in front of you. And just you look at lost in your thoughts, you know, you you get a break that your brain requires. And it starts processing things which have been lagging behind in the RAM. So yeah, it's like a nice reboost to your brain, and it helps you clear a number of things. So yeah, when I always say, you know, doesn't matter what the question is, you know, Himalayas are always the answer because it will give you answers for questions, which you didn't even know you had. So you know, that's what they do. And yeah, like, for instance, when I was in Annapurna base camp, like I told like you also said it's a suffer fest. It is the hardest trick I've done. An Irish base camp was hard, but it was okay. But Annapurna was absolute madness, you know, and I was not in my best form at that time, because I just came back from a trip to the US. I went to New York and all that things, and I came back and immediately, I went to Annapurna base camp without even trying to give myself a break because I just wanted to go to Himalayas, maybe because I saw New York and I really wanted a break from that city. So I went all the way to Himalayas. Annapurna base camp, it was bloody hard. It was raining all the time. It is not really comfortable. You know, I was wet from head to toe, every single day of the walk in six days is completely wet. And it was really, really hard. Same thing again, I asked myself the same question what the fuck I'm doing here. I could have been staying in Dubai and relaxing my warm home. But I was there anyways. So it happened. It is the best camp the first once it is the best camp for the first time when the rain stopped. And everything was visible under Pune in front of you. Extremely gorgeous. And then it was just a small break of 30 minutes and then it started raining again. I'm like shit, okay, now I need to walk back. You know, you know it walking down is harder than walking up to the base camp. So I'm like, I need to go down with all this rain again. My mind was like, please get rid of this place, you know, if you want to. And I was like, Can I call a helicopter get to get off this place because I don't want to walk again. So he sat down recently quarters right now in this weather. I'm like, Okay, let's walk. And I told my guide, how long is the walk to reach Pokhara which is the city we need to go to the city at the end of it. It takes for four nights of walk, you know, like every four nights, your stay in the mountains. And then finally you reach a point where you can go to the city. I'm like, No, I'm not going to stay the walk for four days in this rain. Let's do one thing how much is the kilometres he said almost 38 kilometres of walk to reach to the point where you can take a car to reach the city. I'm like, Okay, let's walk from now. It's seven o'clock in the morning. We will not stop for a single second. No food. No nothing. We are water bottles. We just keep bringing water. Are you up for the challenge? It's like no, no one does that. 38 kilometres in a rain downhill. You can't do that. I'm like, let's do it. And we worked nonstop. You know, I have that phone screenshot in my phone. I burned like 1000s and 1000s of calories. You know, maybe it was crazy. I never burned so much calories in my life. So 38 kilometres. We walked from seven am to 4pm nonstop, not a single break. We just kept walking because I wanted to get out of that place. You know, there are those instances also in MLS. It's not like always romance. So yeah, but that's what makes it interesting. So as soon as I came back, I reached my hotel in Pokhara. I took my shower, I felt good again. And then I came to the reception of the hotel. And the hotel had a number of maps of Nepal, you know, of all the base camps. I just came back from a base camp where it was. I had to walk 38 kilometres to escape. And now I was looking at this posters on the wall, and I'm like, which is this base camp? This amount of sleep? I'm like, Okay, this is my next one. When do I come back? So that's the mattress. 50:43   Yeah, no, I heard that story before. And, you know, it's just crazy. And I know how frustrating it can be when it's raining and all that stuff but doing 38 kilometres on the way down all the way to, you know, from Annapurna base camp. That's 5000 5000 Plus, right, and it's just crazy. Yeah, no doubt you burn all that calorie man, you got all the rain, you got going downhill all the gears, of course you burn all that calorie. But that's Yeah, that's really cool story, you know, and it's true, right. And I think this goes back to what we say earlier, a lot of times people don't see this struggle, about, about the journey. But I think what I noticed from, from the way you approach life, the way you approach your journey, is that you have a way to still enjoy the journey. Even if, you know, there are challenges now, you know, I know that is something that's very difficult to do nowadays, especially looking at everyone else's successes all the time, right? So for the listeners who kind of in that situation where they're like, Okay, I want I'm in a and I want to get to where I want to go next, right, which is my dream, whatever that may be. But this every time I hit a journey of challenges, I feel discouraged. So, you know, how can people enjoy the journey to get to where they want to be? 52:12   One day? I think I'm not an expert again, of this, because it's very, very much, it's up to each individual to choose their happiness. So my way, you know, is my way always your way, it doesn't mean it has to be the same way for both of us might, what I say may not resonate with someone else. So it's up to each person, each one has their own, you know, priorities and life and family and loved ones and etc. So yeah, it's totally different, you know, I can't preach because, you know, for even for a single example, is I'm not married. So if I say something, people will say, yeah, that's easy for you, because you're not married, I'm married, I have two kids, I can't do the same thing. So it can be different to different people. But yeah, you need to find your own peace, with how you can create that balance and feel good about the life that you have. You know, for instance, I was in Tajikistan, and it was one of those craziest, the craziest roads, you know, there, the place is beautiful, but the roads are horrible. It's next to Afghanistan. You can you're always next to Afghanistan, there's just a small river, which divides you and Afghanistan. It's it was at the peak of Taliban when I went there. So people are a bit scared to come, but they still came. So we are going through that journey. And you know, at one point, the road is so bad, so horrible, that you just your bones feel like they're all broken, you know, and one of my friend who was there, he's a corporate guy, and he has a job in Dubai in a luxurious place. And all that is taste. So he came on that trip. And he is not used to this things much. He likes adventures, but not this kind of adventure, it was a little bit too much for him. Because at the end of the night, you stay in a small little house. And it's not like a five star hotel. So everyday are struggling through the journey. I enjoy that. But he had some problems and happens in between the journey. We just stopped for a smoke and we both were smoking in a corner. And he's like, I don't know, I think I shouldn't have come on the strip because it's too hard for me. I told, first of all, just look at your surroundings. And you're standing right here having a smoke. Look at look in front of you. There's Afghanistan. And look at the right side. There's Himalayan mountains upon mountains. And you're here, you know, what are your colleagues doing right now? They're smoking in Dubai, of course, in their office, but what are they looking at the same blocks of city and the same stupid office they have to go back to what's next nine days, you're free, you know, you're in middle of nowhere. How many people should I visited this place which are visited right now? Maybe 5% of the world's population, you are the lucky one. You know, enjoy that moment. Because you are lucky enough to be here, you know? So that's how I put things into perspective. Whatever happens, always see it as one of those. You know, we have a chance to travel if you have that chance alone. You're already lucky enough compared to 80% of the world because others would love to do that, but they don't have the means or freedom to do that. So I think we're already lucky enough that we have this passion, we travel the world. And that's enough blessings, just count those blessings, and you will feel good about it. That is such 55:13   a good advice. And, you know, I think, going back to what you said earlier, it's about, you know, where do you put your focus on? And just hearing what is the story that you tell me, it seems like, you know, your your friend at that time was in a really good place, but his focus was on the negative part of it, and not the positive part of it. And that really changed a lot of perspective for a lot of people just shifting that tiny bit of perspective. Right. So, yeah, that's, that's a really good, you know, a really good advice. Now, you know, one of the thing that I'm interested in is, you know, you're I came across you in the NFT world, and you are, you know, one of the voice in NFT. World, a lot of people hear your wisdom and follow your wisdom now, what, what draw you into the NFT in the first place, and what made you stay in the space? 56:07   Yeah, that's super important for me, because NFT has not been one of those things, which has completely transformed my life, at least, in terms of my passion. Because I came, you know, as I said, I do workshops for a living, and my workshops are travel workshops, and need to travel to a place to do whatever I do. And that's my revenue, you know, that's my income. And that's all that's my sole income. That's the main thing, I don't do anything else. Even if I get commercial jobs in Dubai, I would just push it across, you know, to my friends, I would say you do it, I don't want to do this job, architectural, or whatever, you know, event photography, and never like all those things. Because I've quit my job with a very, very particular team, which is I want to travel and I want to take people along with me, and that's about it. So I do that full time. It was great. Till COVID came in, you know, when COVID came, we all know, world shutdown. And then travel stopped and my sole source of income came to an end. That was the biggest hit. And when you think of it, I stay in Dubai is such an expensive place. And travel has stopped. Everything that you have earned is now disappearing, like super fast pace, you know, like Dubai, it doesn't take much time for money to operate. So it's going through that really, really rough phase in my life where things are going really south. And I'm like, What the hell do I do now? 2020 is gone. 2021 is still the same. There are so many rules to travel, no one wants to travel because there's so many paper works and this and that. So they're just not really working. And I'm like, That's it. I'm done. What do I do now go back to Job, put the tie and suit and get back to work. That was almost a situation though. I didn't want to do that. So that's when NF T came into my life. You know, it came a little bit late. I wish I entered you one more earlier. But one of my friends who's into NFT He kept telling me because he knows exactly what I go through every single day. I mean, every single weekend we go together to shoot and that guy always says come to an empty come to an after you are going through this tough time. I think NFT is your answer. You know you can earn some money and pay your rents and at least take some break from your your hair start turning white what's going on with you. I'm like no NF T's this NF T's that it's a bubble. The typical bullshit that people say I used to believe all those things. So at the end of it, he finally convinced me one fine day he just said, please open a meta mask and come to an update. That's it. Today's the day. And we finally opened the meta mask and he convinced me to come I came in to Twitter, nothing I know nothing about Twitter. I know nothing about nfts I just entered with one follower being my friend who pulled me in. And then eventually I started interacting with people and I realised that the whole community thing which people talked about is actually true. You know, the people are different in NFT. At least during those days in the bull market, people are very, very active and very, very friendly. And everyone is trying to pull each other up rather than push each other down from like, Okay, this sounds interesting, this better than Instagram and all that. And finally, I came up with a collection and first Genesis collection, which was all my email and portraits, some of my best works, I put it out at a very affordable price. And within the first minute of launching that collection, one of my collectors just happened to collect it within the first minute of dropping it. He bought a pitcher at 0.5 at the end. During those days, it was like almost $2,000 I was like $2,000 for my pitcher. In the minute of dropping, I was like I had tears in my eyes because there's something which I never experienced before someone was valuing my work, whatever money money is secondary in that place. Someone valued it, you know, within a second within a minute of dropping. So I realised you know eventually as things moved on, I realised that this place is absolutely brilliant, you know, everything that I thought the illusions that I had was all wrong and yeah, since then I gave myself 100% to it. And it's been wonderful you know, after that have launched many many collections sold out many many collections, and no doubts That that is paying my rent, it's been my all kinds of things in all the bills that I have, it has helped me float through it. So it's been wonderful. Yeah, I think it's a blessing, which came at the right time. Otherwise, by now I would be back to work, maybe giving up all my dreams. 1:00:17   Wow, that's what a journey isn't it and, you know, you come in there and you know, you know, coming from somebody who think it's all, you know, all the objection that everyone can come in, don't want to come in from and then you finally convince come in and know you're here with, you know, one of the biggest boys in the NFT world, you know, sharing your wisdom and your stories in there. And I think it's just incredible. Now, for, you know, for for, for the people who cannot like jump in here and think like, okay, you know, NFT is just a money making scheme and all this stuff. Is there, is there, what's the future of NFT? For you? Lik

Hey Wicked Hunters, I'm excited to have multi-international award-winning photographer F. Dilek Uyar.  Dilek was born in Çanakkale. After completing her primary and secondary education in this city, she entered Gazi University, Faculty of Law in Ankara Turkey. When she graduated, she started her master's degree in Labor and Social Security Law at the same university. She is still a lawyer in a company in Ankara. She also teaches photography classes at a university in Ankara. For 5 years, she has spent most of her time on photography. She likes taking travel, street, and documentary photos. She likes telling stories of people she meets during her travels and cities with her photos. For 4 years, she has been working on social responsibility projects and trying to photograph socially important issues. As a woman photographer, lawyer, and mother from Turkey, she made many speeches in Universities, Photograph Associations and as a TEDx Speaker, she touched on the significance of being a woman and saying yes to change. She also takes part in social awareness projects. Her biggest aim is to increase social awareness and recognition of her stories and continue inspiring young women in her country. She joined many international and national exhibitions and won over 200 awards. She is still a contributor photographer for National Geographic YS and National Geographic Turkey. You can learn more about Dilek's work on: https://twitter.com/FDilekUyar NFT - fdilekuyar.eth.co Website - https://www.dilekuyar.com/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr    For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe --------- 0:00   I risked my life I risked my children's life I go to the hospital and take photos, or one month after 100 year, when we all died, people will remember these times from our photos. This is the power of photography, which photography your writing history, can you imagine you will be the part of history with your photos. This is something being immortal in my opinion. 0:36   Hey, weekend is Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and show how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone who's very special. I've come across her work, a documentary artist who is passionate about sharing the world story and going to her photos, it's taken my breath away. I have heard a few times, you know of her sharing some of her story, as well as speaking some of the issue in this world. And I just want to be able to share her voice to more of you out there. So today, let's welcome Dilek Hey, Dilek how are you? I believe you are from Turkey at the moment, right? 1:25   Yes. Thank you so much. I'm from Turkey, and living in Ankara, the capital city of Turkey. And thank you for your kind in like, 1:37   oh, yeah, 100% You know, I really enjoy listening to your story, I really enjoy the photos that you have taken, right, they are so full of emotion. And I believe you have some approach project as well, which you know, we're going to talk about a little bit later to, to evoke emotion and to share and help share a message to your photography. And I think that is fantastic. Now, before we go through all of that, could you just share with us who is Dilek? And how did you start photography in the first place? 2:12   I'm Dilek, mother of two. And actually, my profession is law. I'm a lawyer in Turkey. And I always believe that people should have some hobbies in their daily life to take a breath during the hectic routine of daily life. And I was a skydiver before starting to take photos. And I was always saying that Skydiving is my passion. And it's my love. I can't forget it, I can live it and I can find another love. But with some health issues, I should have the site give a decision and stop making skydiving and I try to find something to focus and to make me feel good. And just take a camera at that time because it was so popular in Turkey 12 years ago, people were getting cameras and starting to take photos up to that time I never into photography, actually. Even when we go to somewhere I don't like I never like taking selfies or taking photos of the places I visit. But I decided to get a camera and when you let me know unless you thought that you know everything. And in the beginning of my photographic journey, it was same. I was thinking that just taking a buying a brand new camera is enough to take some good photos. But I get a good camera at that time. Then I realised that it's not enough. But I still don't realise at that times the importance of the people behind the camera. I was just thinking the camera is okay. I just don't know how to use it. So I went to a course to learn how to use the camera. And then I started to understand that the people behind the camera is one of the most important thing, not the camera. And photography is not just clicking something when you're just walking or travelling around, it's something special. It has some power. And I've fallen in love photography and I started to force myself to learn it in the best Today, and my journey starts in like that to add few years ago, Oh, it wasn't easy as a woman photographer from Turkey as a mother from Turkey, because our priorities are determined before you should be a wife, you should be your mother. And then you should work in your daily professional work, the hobbies and that the kinds of things are not important. And you don't need to make something like that. Actually, so many people think we're saying, Why are you making something like that is nonsense, and something, etc. But I try, I also tried to change something. And try to show that if a woman wants to sexist, she can, instead of all the difficulties that she faced, and I've worked at, I've worked a lot, I fall down, but that I get up again, and I've worked more I work more and, yes, right now, I'm happy where I am actually. 6:21   Wow, that's such an inspiring story. You know, I can relate to you because I use Well, I was born in Indonesia, you know, where the culture is very similar. I feel like the main purpose for us to live is to go to school, get a good grade, so we can get a good job, get married, get a house and die, right. Exactly. So you know, when when you share that I really can relate to them. Because I know exactly how the pressure from not only the people around you, but the culture right. So that is incredible. And you know, I feel like for you, it's much more, a lot more challenging, right? Because like you say, You're a mother of two, you're a woman. And you know that that makes things a lot more challenging. Now, when when you first pick up a camera, so I love this, I love how you share that, you know, a good camera is not the thing that take good photo, and hopefully the people who are kind of in the beginning of their journey starting to understand this, right? Because I really wish I know this a lot earlier. Now. What? What makes you love photography. So you say that, you know, you're looking for a new hobby after you're skydiving, which is fantastic. I always wanted to be a skydiver, by the way, you know, so you picked up your camera, you started to learn photography. But what makes you fall in love with it, what makes you stay and keep taking photos and going through telling, you know some of the most powerful stories that you have told to your photography. 8:13   I was living in a big city, in good conditions in in a good social status. And my holidays was in five star hotels at that time. As a lawyer I was earning good and my husband also earning good. And the people around me was just focused on getting some new clothes, new houses, new cars, and something like that. I was living in a society like that. And earning money means at that times, is just getting in buying a new house new clothes, new and brand, bags, shoes, etc. But when I started to take photos, I was visited the rural parts of Anatolia that I never been before. And I see how kind people are there. How they open all the life and all their houses to you how they make guests to their dinners to their breakfasts. And that's really make me surprise. Everything was different from the life I was living in the big city and everything started to change in my mind. A good photographer once said that you can even say that you are seeing and understanding the world. Before taking photos, this is so right I understand it after I started to take photography. And I see that the things that we want to improve that we want more, make us less actually. Because I saw this in Anatolia, people were so polite people were so kind people were so humbled. But we all forget bad things in big cities, in my country, and touching the people's story, touching their life, listening their stories made me so happy. I was also interested in literature, and I was writing some stories, and writing some papers on some important names, web pages in Turkey before and I realised that photography is writing a story, actually, you're writing their story with your one frame, one single frame. And then we read the stories or novels written in past times, we can understand that, oh, they are reusing these things, they were living in that way. So they are also a part of history. But if it is a novel or a story, you can think that that writer is imagining that things. But if the topic is photography, people believe that people show the reality. And I decided to tell their stories with my photos, because with the technology with the time, so many cultures, so many traditions are disappearing. We need to document all that things and tell them stories. My travel photography journey started like this, because I love this, I feel myself that I'm finding new treasures. When I visited that parts of Turkey, I never had a chance in a five star hotel before that makes me fall in love in photography. Wow, 12:45   that is such a cool story. And I definitely can relate, you know, I was someone who really care about the materialistic things and I would earn fine money to be to be able to buy more stuff. And you're you're absolutely right, you know, the less we have, the more we appreciate things and make it's funny because the less people have that, it seems like the Kinder they are and the less selfish they are, which exactly what you say, now. I really enjoy the way you tell a story to your photography, right? They are so powerful, they speak to you. Now, when you go out there and you start travelling and you look at this different culture, this different point of view, and you capture them and tell that story through your photography. What are some of the things that you look through? What are some of the thing that goes to your mind, so that you could tell you know this story in such a profound way? 13:54   I would totally in Antalya, our culture is so rich, so colourful, so contrast and you can imagine the philosophy between so many things. For example, when I went to moolah Promacta first, I see that people woman are building some six cars on their heads. Not just because they're, they believe Islam, that scarfs was so different and they were putting fresh flowers on this scarves. And I asked them what all of you putting that fresh flower because in other parts of Anatolia, I never saw something like that. And then they answer me and they said that because they want to smell like fresh flowers to their husbands. And that makes me I can explain the I have feelings that I feel when I first hear that this was so unique, this was so special. So cayenne. And this is how Anatolian people look to the world actually, they don't have money to get perfumes or something like that. But they find something special like this. People should hear that story. That's why I started to take their photos, for example, and tell their story. Wherever you go, somewhere, when you try to communicate them, you can understand their story. If you can't become one with them, if they can't share their story with you, you can understand them. And if you don't understand them, you can't tell their story in a proper way. When I go somewhere to take photos, I never get my camera in the beginning and take photos, I started to talk with them. I started to understand with them, they I share my story, they share their story and after understand what they are leaving what they feel how to be a person in that place, then I'm taking photos and maybe that's why my photos are a little bit different from the other photos because I can understand their story. And if he can't understand someone's story can tilt. 16:50   Yeah, that's incredible. I really love that I really love that approach. And you're right, most of us kind of go out there and bring our camera and take a photo. Because it looks appealing. It looks good not to tell the story. Right? Well, you know it, the story might come afterward. But I love your approach. I love your approach on understanding the story and understanding what is the best way to share that through your photography. And I think that's just so powerful. Because, like you say, you know, if you don't understand this story, then how can you capture it in a way that tell their story? Wow, that is just incredible. That's incredible, I'm sorry, that it just really take, you know, my breath away. And I really enjoy that. And, you know, that's I mean, I really can see that, you know, I really can see that through your photography. They really speak they really have an emotion and I could just imagine that, you know, you understanding what they're thinking through what what the emotion that they have before they that you capture these photos, right? I mean, coming from a landscape photographer, or you know, Astro photographer, and nature photographer, I don't get that as much right. But that is such a great lesson to learn. Thank you for sharing that. 18:13   Thank you for giving this opportunity to me actually. I love landscape photos, I still photo graphy also macro and wide love, but they are not my cup of tea actually. Because I love listening to people's story I love touching their life, and the way of touching their life is taking photo. Because I'm not just touching the button of my camera, I'm talking with them, I'm sharing time to them and they are sharing their times. With me. That's why I love photography. 19:00   Wow. It's you know, it's I really enjoy listening to you talking because you have I can hear the passion, the love for the people and the love for photography from your from your story. So that is just incredible. Now, one thing that I'm wondering right when you when you come across this. So for example, you know, coming from a nature photographer, or an astro photographer, I would think about, you know, what are the different places and think about, you know, how it could have looked like, where the landscape is where the light is. Now, one thing that I'm interested in, right is how do you pick your destination? Do you have a certain criteria, a certain thing that interests you, or do you just kind of travel and see what what story you can tell from there. 19:58   It's changing time to time actually because, for example, I was know, that woman wearing some interesting scarves on mulatto, Magda, and I go there. There are some photography places in all around the world, you know, also in Turkey, and we know that places, but the challenging thing is going that places and taking some different photos from the photos that taken before, that is the most challenging one, because it's not easy if people go there and take some good photos before. But I love challenges during all my life. And also sometimes I'm trying to find some places, which will sweet my topic. For example, I decided to go a city in Turkey, for to take photos. Before going there, I'm making some readings, I'm trying to understand what is popular in that city or in that town? What are their traditions, and then when I go, that's the I'm trying to find that things, every part of Anatolia, I have so many different things to photograph. So probably I will continue taking photos in my country. And it's easy to understand their story to be one with them. And that makes me more comfortable while taking photos. Because if you want to have tourists in a country, it's not easy to understand the whole story, you're just taking photos, just like a tourist and you can jump into the deep of distorted debuff to cities deep of the people. Some I love taking that kinds of photos. And usually I'm trying to find the local people who will help me in that areas to show and to also explain their culture deeply. I'm choosing the destinations or the place like that. 22:24   That is incredible. Yeah, I love that. So when you you know, go to this places like and you know, to your photography, you have taken a lot of photos that have a profound meaning to it right? There is such, there is a lot of message behind your photography, at least from what I have seen. Now, do you have any some sort of mission or any purpose that you're trying to achieve from this messages? Or is it more about just the storytelling and just so happen this, you know, the impact that you give from the photo, you know, kind of just turned out that way. 23:08   Actually, before winning natural thermal photography, photography contest, I was just taking single photos and trying to tell the stories of the cities or the people I visited during my travels. But after 2017 I decided to also make photo projects, make documentary photo project because sometimes just a single photo is not enough to tell a big problem to take attention to a important social issue. So I started thinking, What can I do? Because I believe the power of photography, I believe that I believe how photography can reach the millions if the photographer use it in a proper way. We see we saw these examples in art history. So my first long term project was with cancer patients because I want to take attention to the importance of early diagnosis. I I believe that if you're if someone is afraid of something, they can be careful. But if you make advertisements and saying that everything will be great, you will be healed. Everything will be great. People stop afraid of that illnesses like cancer. So I want So, tell the story of Zeynep. She was one of my main model in my project. She was healing too. And her story was so heartbreaking and so emotional. But then unfortunately and unexpected, Lee, we lost her. Cancer made a metastasis, and we lost her. And I understand how things can change quickly. And from her story, I wanted to broke people's hurt, I want to make them sad, because I believe that if they become sad, they can get Doctor controls. Early diagnosis, if they have some problems, the doctors can get that in early stages. I've worked with cancer patients. And then COVID comes our lives two years ago, you know, and everything was like a science we film. We were watching from our computers, from our televisions, what's happening in China while everything was so far, and it was like, We will not affect with these things. And then it becomes the whole world's reality. And after World War Two, nothing affected whole world like that. And I can stop myself to take the photos of that times, because as a photographer, I can't change the history, but I can show it. That was my motto. So I tried to get permission to go to the intensive care unit to go to the hospitals to go to the streets to take the photos. But especially in the beginning of the pandemic, there were no vaccine, even they were not trained once. Proper treatments for COVID No one let me permission. But then I use the power of social media I made. I wrote some tweets. And first of all Ankara municipal to hear my voice. We were all in lockdown in Ankara, but they get permission for me. And I photograph the disinfection periods of all public transformation areas or the other places. And then I get permission from Gaza University, hospital, I risked my life, I risked my children's life. But I go to the hospital and take photos for one month, not just one day, just for today, I went that hospital every single day for months, just to make something different and stroke because after 100 year, when we all died, people will remember these times from our photos. This is the power of photography, with photography, your writing history, and can you imagine you will be the part of history with your photos. This is something being immortal in my opinion, I may be die, but people will remember my name with that photos. And this is so important for me. I get all that risks, and I photograph all the parents all parts of I choose photos in all parts of the hospital. And that project Mr. That's in almost all photo contests. So I'm so happy with that project and after NatGeo my point of view to photography is changed also and I also tried to take attention to these social importance issues and take photos of them. I've worked with seasonal workers children because you know with COVID Our children started education from far away from laptops from computer but the The economical situation is not same in every part of Turkey and so many children don't have internet connection, don't have laptops, and they couldn't get the education they should get from the government from their country. So I made a photo project to take attention to that. unequality actually, something like that. 30:27   Wow, that is incredible. What a story. So I'm just trying to, you know, put my thoughts together here. You know, that's just so incredible what you did, you know, I saw your, your project, your photo series around COVID. And it's absolutely incredible right? Now, what, what going through your head, what makes you want to risk your life, I know that, you know, you, you, you you want, you kind of mentioned about leaving a legacy, being able to be part of the history. But in order to do that, you're not only risking yours, yourself, but also, you know, like you say, risking your daughter. So 31:11   how, actually, both of them. 31:15   And you're doing it for a month, right? So what was that month look like? Like, just take us through, you know, the day in the life of Dilek. During that one month, when you were going back and forth to the hospital to document this incredible pandemic? 31:35   Actually, it wasn't easy, but I couldn't stop myself. And you can't imagine how many? No, I heard during the wall permission process. Everyone's saying, No, you should stay at your home, you're a woman, you should take care of your children and stay at home. And normally, it's hard for me to want some thing from someone and to ask some help from the others. But I couldn't stop myself because I was seeing that how COVID affecting the whole world. And I couldn't stop myself, I couldn't think anything. And I was good. I was willing to close on me going to the hospital, taking photos during the whole time. And during at 5pm. For Turkish time, I was leaving the hospital coming home, taking the cloths on me in front of my house, putting them in a bag. And then with the clean cloths in me, I was going home but also I was putting some scarf on my hairs because I don't want to affected my children if my hair gets some wires or not. I was washing my clothes with hot water in ocean machine. Also making a shower with hot water. And I wasn't coming together with my children, not just one month, after one month. The doctor suggested me to live separately with my children for one month too. And you can't imagine how hard it is how hard it is. I love being close to the people. I love being close to my children. I love hugging them. I love touching them. But I couldn't make this and I was just sitting in front of my computer making some Instagram talks or something like that. And I was so curious. I realised that I'm checking my favour almost all the time. And I was thinking that I get infected and I will gonna die. And I was just praying for not infecting my children. It was easy while I was in hospital, but it wasn't easy while I was waiting at home and thinking if I infected or not. And I get 20 kilos during that period. I was just eating I was just eating. And during my pregnancies. I didn't get that weight actually. But the full periods really affected me so much. Oh, also emotionally, too. But thanks God. I didn't affect it. I'm not in that period during the Wu COVID times I never effected. It's surprising. I'm lucky, I guess. Maybe that's why I go that gut, maybe God chose me to make that project because being one month in hospital and being so close to the patients was not easy, actually. 35:24   Yeah, wow. That's, that's incredible. You know, I saw the documentary on I can't remember what what TV station it was. But I saw a documentary on how hotel what are the different routine that the hotel have to go through when they accept people for quarantine, and it was in it was crazy. So that's why I was very interested to hear what was that, you know, journey like for you. And, you know, doing that for a month and a little bit more. That's, that's just crazy, you know, the amount of dedication that you put in there. It's, it's unprecedented. And I admire that very much. Now. I'm still curious, right. So you document all this incredible photos, and events that had happened during probably going to be one of the global event one of the, you know, an event that affected globally, like you say, you know, ever since the World War Two. Now, when you when you kind of, you know, put all the when you kind of put all the intention together and you tell yourself, I want to document this thing, I want to be able to go into these places where the people are infected, where the people are getting affected in the most, how do you go about getting that permit? Because like you say, you have come across a lot of nose. And I could imagine, right, what people thinking when they hear this was like, Are you crazy? Like no, is they home? So what? How did you end up getting that permit and being able to actually document this event? 37:22   First of all, I was just sitting at home in the beginning of first COVID. Case detected in 11, march in Turkey. And I was in hospital in May. During that two months, I was trying to get permission. But first of all, I didn't think going on the hospitals and taking some photos, I was thinking that this period will end in a few weeks at least. But I was just sitting at my home trying to see something different. What can I show that home? I made something I made something different, actually. But it wasn't enough for me. There was a war outside. And I can be part of that historic historical times. So I get calls with so many people. But the only thing I heard was No. First of all, they were saying that you are not a journalist. And even the journalists are coming here and taking one or two days, but you want to stay and take photos so many times so it's impossible. And it and when I talked with someone they were saying, yes, taking that photos can be a good idea. But our hospital has some public relation. Ship departments. And there's a guy he is taking some photos he can take to Yes, anyone can take photos but taking some good photos is something different. So it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. But finally, while I was making an Instagram talk at that times at Doctor heard my voice and he said that Mr. Like you can come and take photos if you want in my hospital. I'm taking photo I'm trying to take some photos, but I'm in the beginning of my photography journey. And I can I open the doors to you and you can teach me how to take photos. I said okay, but it was incredible. Everything was done. becoming so easy. I wasn't used to that everyone should send me no. And I want the hospital. We talked with the director of the hospital, he was so kind to, and he said that you can start now. And I said, No, I didn't come with proper clothes to take some photos. I'm viewing sweets right now. So, okay, I will come together and start everything started in that way. I, after all that periods I find a way to take photos. And also I wrote a paper to governments. Because I want to take some photos in government hospital and Institute hospitals to and people liked me. They said that they will never answer you. system because, you know, so many people writing papers to them, but they never answered. After one month, they answered me. In that paper, I explained, who am I what is my aim, what I want to do with that photos. And they led me to take some photos still in city hospital. And after working in Gaza University, hospital, I went to city hospital to take some photos, but it was just for two days. And it wasn't enough to take some really strong photos. Because when you're a foreigner in a place, they all get nervous, and you can't catch the natural body language. At the time, being in one month in Ghazi University Hospital was so important because they use to me, they get used to me, they stop seeing me, I become one with them. And they just forget me, they were just thinking there's a crazy woman taking all the time. So they stop thinking at me. They stop worrying about me also, because in the beginning, when I first go to hospital, they were a little bit furious and worrying about me because I could infected myself too. And I can go into hospital as a patient. But they understand and they see how I'm obeying the rules and don't making something stupid at the hospital. So yeah, I become invisible. Oh, and get all that photos. 42:47   That is such an incredible story. And you know, what I love about it is that you you persist, right? You don't give up, you keep going, you keep knocking on the door and eventually door open. But once the door open, you know you you do it the right way you follow the rules and making sure that you're not adding the problem, you know, adding to the problem. And I admire that very much. Because, you know, it's hard to be out there and documenting these things, you know, all these incredible events, right? But doing it in a way that doesn't create more harm to the rest of the people. I think that is just incredible. So massive congratulations for you, you know, you highly deserve to get the award for that. I mean, it's just such an incredible story. So we you know, moving on from that we talked about earlier before the podcast and us, you mentioned it yourself that that basically, you know, once you won that award with the Nat Geo, you started to look things differently starting to work more on a longer term project and looking through the different ways that you can get that you can share the voice of issues that is important. Now, share with us, you know, with the audience, what are some of the project that you are working on right now? And what is your mission behind that? 44:26   Right now I'm working on a project to take attention to climate change because climate change is one of the biggest problems that the humanity and the world faced right now. And there are some harmful effects of coal mines to the environment and it's affected the Climate change also And we should find some alternative energy sources. This can be changed from the geographical station of your country or your location. But there are so many alternative station but especially after the war between Ukraine and Russia, the cool months become more important, aka, some, I want to take attention to that point, and make a long term project to show all that things deeply. And I'm working with them right now. Oh, I went to some coal mines for five times. And I will continue going there and taking photos. It's not an easy project for me. Also, it wasn't easy to get permissions again. Probably I always love something challenging. Because when you make something like that, you also inspire the young ladies in your country. This is important. For me, being an artist is not just taking some good photos in my opinion, being an artist is also inspiring the young generations with your stand with your thoughts with your speaks with your stand with your also behaviours. So I'm trying to do my best as an artist. I'm trying to be a role model to them. So yes, it's not easy. It's not easy for me to do take photos in cool minds, because I don't like I have some claustrophobic problems. And I can stand in close areas in dark, but I'm going in crude minds. Can you imagine how it was challenging for me also. But yes, some good photos are coming. I was so excited, especially after some shoots and I sent them to some photo contest and seeing that they are choosing as editor pique and shortlisted in some context is also making me happy. Because I didn't finish the project. Right now. I just send some of them as single photos. But what I get was so helpful. So I'm so hopeful with my new long term project too. 47:50   Wow, that is incredible. Yeah, look, I used to be an engineer and I used to work in aluminium refinery. So I know how difficult it must have been for you to get, you know, permission to get in there. Especially to take photos. I know, mining companies doesn't like people doing that, right. 48:11   There are three kinds of mining companies. One is under the control of government, one's private. And also there are illegal coal mines, they don't have any permission. If someone see and find that cool ones, they destroyed them. I find some two illegal coal mines. And I will go there and take some photos soon. It will also be so dangerous for me because being in an illegal coal mine means also risking my life again. And just one month ago, an explosion happens in one of the biggest coal mines that I was, I was planning to shoot to. So it's not easy. Yes, I'm risking my life again. But something good cannot happen. If you don't take risks. In my opinion, comfort zones are our most barrier, in my opinion, when you take out of your comfort zone. Something good has happened. In my opinion. 49:31   That is so great. I totally agree with that. And yeah, like just you know, rules and regulation to keep the mind safe. The is probably what's making them illegal. So going to a coal mine that's illegal, going to be a lot more dangerous. So please do take care of yourself when you go out there. I know how dangerous it could be, you know, being an engineer working on there. And yeah, it's just so many hazards and so many things. would go wrong in no time. So make sure that you take care of yourself. But climate change is something that I feel, you know, I feel powerful. I feel Yeah, powerfully about because I feel like there's there is not enough urgency around that. And it's, you know, I used to live in Canada, I see how quickly ice caves and glaciers disappearing within the short two years, two and a half years that I was there. So just imagine what's going to happen in 1015 20 years, right? We're not even talking about decades here, we're talking about years. So I'm so happy that you're doing this, you know, in, in a sense that to bring more voice out there to bring more awareness out there, but make sure that you are safe, because we love you. And we want you. We want you to be around. So yeah, 50:59   thank you. I'm trying my best. But, yes. Let's think positive things and fingers crossed. 51:11   Yeah, fantastic. All right. Well, you know, it's been a pleasure, we're coming to the one hour mark is such a pleasure to hear a lot of story from you. And, you know, when you finish the project, perhaps you could come back to the podcast and share a little bit about that project about, you know, the impact that it has been give it has given? I think that would be amazing to hear. But one question that I always ask my guests, you know, and you say to yourself, I, as a as an artist, we have the responsibility to share our vision to share our voice with the younger generation or with the rest of the world. So if there is one advice that you could give, either to young, younger yourself or maybe to your daughter, or maybe to anyone in the world, right, just the one advice, what would that one advice be, 52:06   um, that choosing one advice is not easy, actually. But if I should choose just one, I can advise them to work so much, and not race with the others, but race with yourself. You should be a better person. Before the person yesterday, just raise with yourself, not the others. And don't keep, don't leave working work so much. Because I believe that if someone works so much, he can succeed, she can succeed. Just 52:51   wow, that is such a great advice, especially, you know, in photography area, or in the artists area, you know, the artists, community, you know, there is a lot of competition, there is a lot of people a lot of impostor syndrome, you know, people are feeling that their heart is not good enough compared to other people. So, I believe that this is such a great advice. And it's such an important one too. So thank you very much for sharing your wisdom, your story, as well as your insights right? To all of this unique experiences. Now, if this, if the audience want to find more about your photography about the project that you're working on, or simply just want to get to know you better, what is the best way to find you? 53:46   My web page is one of the best way to find me. Also, I have an Instagram page and twitter account. They can find everything in that three platform error information about me. 54:03   Fantastic. All right, well, you know, we'll put that under description. So if you want to find out and get in touch with Dilek, then feel free to do so. But thank you very much for being here. Dilek it's been such a pleasure. It's been a great conversation. I love hearing your story. I love hearing your wisdom and I am sure that the audience out there will get so much value from this. So thank you very much for your time and I very much appreciate having you here. 54:36   Thank you so much, Stanley for inviting me to this podcast and giving this opportunity to me thank you so much. 54:46   No, no worries at all. And you know, like I love having a female in my podcast because there are a lot of male photographers out there and it's proven to be more difficult finding female coming to the podcast and like you say, right. You know, so I believe that's important to you know, to, to speak their, their voice as as a female or a male, right, whichever you are, but we know that the male are a lot more dominant in this in this in this niche. So thank you very much for being here and for having that courage not only to voice your messages, but also to actually go out there and knocking on doors and doing the things that most people don't want to do to share the social issue. I find a lot of inspiration for that and I admire you for that. So yeah, fantastic. 55:48   Thank you. Thank you so much. 55:51   All right, well, we can't do this thank you very much for Lucy listening in and man, that was a great podcast it's just so much wisdom so much great stories behind that. So make sure you check Deluxe photo there is so many great gems and when you go to her photo, you can feel the emotion that she tries to tell to those photographs. So let us know in the comment or in the in the review how you feel about this podcast. If you enjoy this particular episode or any other episode, don't forget to subscribe. And let me know if there is other photographer other artists that you'd like me to have an interview in this podcast. Well, with that being said, we can hunters. Thank you very much for listening, listening. today. I'll see you guys next week. Keep creating and keep shooting. Until next time

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Happy New Year to you and we're kicking off the new year with Tomasz - Founder of Frames Magazine.  Tomasz Trzebiatowski is a photographer and independent publisher. Aside from FRAMES, he is also the editor-in-chief of the FujiLove Magazine for users of the Fujifilm X and GFX camera systems. His photographic interests lie predominantly in fine art, music, and street photography. He is also a classical pianist. If you want to learn more about Frames Magazine, you can go to: FRAMES Magazine: www.readframes.com FRAMES Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/framesmagazine/ FRAMES Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/frames_magazine/ Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr    For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe --------- 0:00   Trade started parallel with COVID. Now, when it comes to steps, you know, I had the vision and I made the decision myself is it's just gonna happen. So step by step learning what was there to be to be learned and overcoming any kind of obstacle which was there, you know, like looking for printers day by day, step by step, I was following my plan. And the only thing which was kept me going was my very clear vision. 0:34   Here, we get hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artist journey and share how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have a special guest from someone who not only passionate about photography, but he built a platform where photographers can share their photography with more people out there. And you know, as artists, that's how much we love to share our photography. So I'd like to welcome Tomash from frames magazine, and he built this community as well as you know, the publication. And it is one of the reason why I want to bring him here. So too much how are you? You know, thank you for coming into the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you. 1:25   Yeah, thank you so much, Stanley. I'm excited myself. Thank you so much for inviting me over and yeah, very happy to, you know, to talk about whatever your listeners would like would like to know, you know about the story about about the magazine, so on. And Greetings, everyone from snowy, snowy Switzerland. That's where I'm based. It's finally getting cold over here. And also the the real winter is taking over. Yeah, getting ready for Christmas. 1:54   sounds incredible. You know, most people I'm here in Bali, and I used to live in Canadian Rockies for two and a half years. And most people think Bali is paradise, but I'm missing the winter so much. 2:07   Especially if you're living close to the Rockies. Yeah, it's like a similar surroundings in a way, you know, to to some parts of Switzerland or the other way around to Switzerland is similar to some parts of Canada. So yeah, 100 Definitely. Yeah, I would prefer to be sitting in valley right now to be honest. 2:27   Well, you know, it's really cool. Like, I come across frames magazine from my mentee, actually, he, he introduced me, it's like, Oh, you gotta check out this Facebook group and the publication. So I got into there. And now it's just, I was just blown away by what you are doing in the, for the community. So before we get to all that, right, we're going to talk a lot about, you know, what, what you're doing, what your vision, what you're planning and so forth. But before we got all that, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what attracted you to photography and what keep you from, you know, keep doing this? Because we all know, photography is not the easiest profession to earn from. 3:14   Yeah, well, so I don't even know where to start, right. Like, every time somebody asked me about, tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, the problem is, the years are passing. I'm getting older. So this little bit is getting bigger. But yeah, okay, let me let me try to put it in a nutshell, you know, I am a educated musician, classical, classical pianist, you know, so that's what I started. That's what I learned. And that's what I still do. up to these days today. You know, I'm still working part time at the local college of music here in Lucerne, Switzerland. So I was into, you can say, into arts, you know, forever. I mean, I was into into music. My father was introducing me to, you know, paintings photography as well, you know, so the kind of art in general was was over, always around. But it wasn't until I was I was 25 I will say, when I really discovered photography, you know, I was busy practising the piano, this takes a lot of your time, you know, but, in in the year 2000, something special happened. I I got the chance to travel to Antarctica, as a musician, as a classical pianist. You know, I went on a on a cruise on a two weeks cruise and I was supposed to play you know, for the guests, make some music. And that was when I for the very first time in my life, you know, both had both a camera photographic camera and my own camera, because I thought you know, going to Antarctica it's a good enough reason to have a camera with yourself right? So that's, that's when I bought my very, very first camera and In the beginning, you know, I went on the trip, I came back started learning about everything. What's involved, you know, digital, this was a digital cameras, camera, right? So I learned some analogue photography before from my father, he was he was into it, but my very own camera was digital. And if I remember correctly, I think it was three megapixels camera or something like this was Canon PowerShot G two, I remember, remember exactly what it was. But anyway, I was hooked. You know, I came back, I immediately got excited about capturing what I see in front of me on, on images on on, you know, on photographs. Yeah, rest is history, you know, and I keep going to today, I somehow have this passion have this bag in me that I love to translate to capture to interpret what I see in front of me in a photographic way. You know, it's just, it excites me to these days. So, so far not able to stop I am not planning of stopping anytime soon. 6:12   Yeah, wow, that's, that's an inspiring story. And, you know, I always enjoy hearing where they first come across photography, and a lot of time, it's about the landscape, the travel or capturing a moment in itself. Now, I can know that you're a musician. Wow. That's just incredible. I know, I always wanted to learn piano, but I find it too difficult. I don't have the finger coordination. So I, uh, wow. I didn't admire that very much. 6:42   Yeah, and you know, and just to add to this, maybe where I draw this inspiration still to these days, it's very often for me about this. This interaction between music and photography, you know, being out there photographing, I don't listen to music on my headphones, you know, like, when I photograph some people do to get into the zone, right? But, but I very often sing about tunes, or, you know, remember in a specific pieces, you know, of music in my mind when photographing, and it kind of it kind of, you know, inspires me in the moment, or, like, changes the mood of how I see things. And also the opposite. When I play piano, I very often think about music and kind of sink in, in a way of, you know, images, colours, you know, see particular scenes, right. So it's kind of as what's the word symbiotic, you know, kind of experience, I mean, music, photography, it's, they fuel each other, in my case, and I'm really enjoying this process. 7:55   That's really interesting. I know, I've come across, you know, how music can change. And this was in, in an example of post processing, how to edit how to, you know, approach your photography, once you have it there. And a friend of mine kind of introduced it as like, man, you should try to listen to different music and see how you feel about your photos. While you listen to that. So I'm actually quite intrigued about this, right? Since you're, you're an actual professional musician, as well as photographer, how, when you when you go out there, and like you say, right, you go out there you you see a scene that you want to photograph? How do you pick the music to connect you to that scene? And you know, once you pick that, do you ever change kind of the music to get a different perspective of the same scene? 8:51   Yeah, so in my case, just like I mentioned before, it's a bit different. So I don't actually listen to music. When I photograph I don't I don't, you know, have any kind of headphones or I don't choose tracks. It's rather in my case, it's it's rather some engineer. It's kind of but it's, I imagine it, then it's a very natural process. I don't like three plan. You know, I will be thinking about Mozart, you know, whether it's something that happens in a in a in the moment. It's a very, what's the word? It's like a mutual influence kind of mechanism. On this 9:28   moment, ah, yeah, 9:28   it can also happen that I, you know, let's say I come to you or, you know, I go into, I don't know, Indonesian mountains. Right. And, and the scene itself, provokes, or like, you know, resonates in a special way with a certain, you know, something comes to mind. And in my case very often connects to a specific genre or even specific piece of music, you know, and then I kind of keep going down this rabbit hole. Right, and kind of very special artistic effects are like, you know, impressions a very special reaction start occurring. And it's like a spiral. Kind of 10:11   Yeah, I mean, you know, when I say play the music, I'm not saying in a literal sense, but you know, in your head can opinion imagining, yeah, that's yeah, that's, that's really cool that you do that and, you know, it's something that I, I'd like to explore as well to get that creativity going. So tell us a little bit about your photography, what is what is your photography and what you're trying to achieve, like, what you photograph and what you are trying to achieve when you are taking those photos. So 10:45   I, you know, it's kind of difficult even to myself to always to put the finger or like to define and I know, it's, you know, applies to many photographers, like, for, for a long time I was, quote unquote, like, we do very often searching right for my own style for my own. Today, I don't define it anymore as searching, even though I'm still I'm, I'm reacting to too many different things. And it's mainly I think, in a visual way, in a, you know, I'm reacting to shapes to lines to shadows to, and it does not matter so much. In my case, if it's a landscape in front of me, or if it's a piece of furniture, or if it's a human being or an animal, you know, it's kind of a you know, in any given sin. So my photography, predominantly, when I find time to do it, these days, I'm also getting frustrated, you know, these these days with, with so many tasks, and I'm really trying hard to plan my photography time, by my own photographic time. But when I, when I go for it, you know, I, I am this kind of photographer, I go out in there, I go out there and I and I started observing, I started observing the surroundings wherever I happen to be right. And I'm kind of looking for, for those special people know juxtapositions of lines of light. So in the meantime, create the images I create, and I can share some with your viewers at some point, if it's possible, you know, are kind of abstract, I like black and white a lot. So the kind of abstract, but they're not really abstract, because this is a representation of the real world in front of me. But it's very often, you know, small fragments of buildings, it's not the entire scenes, it's not the entire landscape scene is a, it's a very tight crop, or is a very tight, you know, part of the scene or is a very, it's a, it was a corner of a building with some cracks in the wall, you know, and this creates this new life by itself in itself, you know, this new kind of being, which I am fascinated by, so, you would have to look at a few images, it's difficult to define, but I am basically in some way. Yeah, fascinated by any kind of visual creations, you know, being the nature creations or human being creations, and I'm documenting those little details. 13:15   Yeah, so I actually, you know, the reason why I asked that question is because I saw some of your photograph. And the way you frame your photograph is just incredible, right? I think there was one photo where it was it was, it was a glasses or something like that. And then you play with the shadow and the highlights. And it turns out, totally different than you know, the way you sit. So it's incredible how you observe, and you look at what is in front of you, and you create something that is totally different, you know, out of it. Now, one thing that I'm interested, you know, like you say you'd like to do landscape, you'd like to also do a lot of this abstract, as well as intimate photograph of wherever you go, you know, whether it's a glasses that you wear, or the buildings around your city or the nature. So how does the, you know, share with us the feeling that you get when you capturing those different moments? Is that does that spark the same type of emotion? Or is it different and give you a different satisfaction altogether? 14:28   This Excellent question. I mean, I have never been asked this question, but it's really excellent, because I just love you know, thinking about these kinds of things and talking about it. But it will not be the easy answer, of course, because it's so personal. And so, you know, it's happening on such an intuitive level. But I love this challenge of trying to put those things into words. So thanks for letting me Yeah. Yeah, 14:54   I really do enjoy asking a really hard, you know, thoughtful question. I love to make up So I 15:00   absolutely love it. You know, that's, that's what it's all about, you know, when, when you really get into photography, right? I think you asked about the emotions Yeah, or emotion I'm experiencing. On one level, this is definitely some kind of a similar emotion, you know, when I'm in the landscape or if I'm on a, in a parking lot, you know, and looking at some lines on the, on the floor and cracks, it's on some level, it's a similar thing I am. And I can basically getting goosebumps, you know, it happens is like, you know, where I, where a certain set of elements in front of me, starting or falling into place for me, you know, for for what I am kind of reacting to, and those elements, those lines start, start creating this, this, this new form, or this new, you know, kind of scene or so, it can be, you know, a range of mountains with sun rays, and, you know, shadows of trees, but it can be also a couple of stones in the parking lot, you know, on a on a white line, you know, whatever it might be my emotional, this great question, how would I, I think I would just, I mean, the simplest words, I would, I would describe my emotion as excitement. Because, you know, he's getting goosebumps is like, I think his fascination is purely a fascination I get about the surrounding world, you know, and on a deepest, deepest level, I think it's some kind of thankfulness for that I am able to experience this kind of fascination. You know, so many people work, we know it, so many people walk their, their streets, you know, the, you know, the cross the same, you know, cross, you know, crossing the look at the same buildings every single day. And they just ignore them, because, but I keep looking, I can be walking, you know, I spend most of my time at home, of course, and walking the same streets every day. I always keep looking, I always keep discovering different stuff. Because I look so close, I've tried to look, I'm not even trying, it's just happening. This is who I am, right? So it's difficult to explain. And then when I noticed this thing, this one thing and you know, when I just have to grab my camera and start experimenting, and you know, working, so people are looking at me, it happens, is it some kind of a weirdo, you know, because I always my camera down on my knees or whatever it might be, you know, looking for, for those elements. So I think it's this combination of fascination with those visual elements, but also kind of like a, what's the word great gratefulness for, for being this way for being able to notice those things? So it's quite a big pointer. It's quite a deep emotion. I mean, it's quite a Yeah, to be honest, it's quite quite a big part of my life. 18:05   I can totally resonate with that. You know, like when you find something that really intrigued you, and it really not only make you grateful, being able to enjoy that moment, but also energise you, and I think that's that's what passion is, right? And that's why we love doing this, because it energises and makes us excited, like you say so. Now, 18:27   you also you also use, like, excellent where I was missing these words energising me. Yeah, absolutely the same. It's yeah, when this moment happens in the morning, let's say my whole days, like, on fire, I'm energised is perfect. But you also described it in a perfect way here. Exactly. 18:47   And that's, that's really cool. I mean, you know, I think a lot of us feel very similar emotion. Now, one thing, you know, I'd love to go into some of your, what you've done with the community. But we're just one more question before we get into that, that really fascinates this, about your approach is that so Okay, as a landscape photographer, for example, like you know, I travel I do landscape and adventure and it's, it's a lot easier to get drawn or to see the things that you know, attract your eyes, right, because it just there it jumps on it. There is an aurora boom, it's you know, attracts your eyes, there is an ice cave, there is a mountain it's right there right. Now, what you do in some of your photography is totally different though. Right? It's, it's something that is, I'd like to say the grandest thing in the grandest detail in the bigger scheme. So in the big big world, everywhere, everything where most people are looking for that big thing. You look for the small detail that actually is very intriguing, very powerful that can create an evoke emotion like what you do. Right? So what? What intrigues you about those smaller detail? Like, you know, what intrigued you about the shape what intrigued you about the cracks, like what attracted you, like, you know, what attracted you to the smaller details, like it attracted us to the mountains or the stars and so forth? 20:27   Well, so, yeah, very interesting, because but, you know, it's the discovery kind of thing, because, let me give you an example, if I have never been to Indonesia, right. So if I think about going there visiting you, and you know, you may be showing me some amazing places, I can already feel excitement, because I haven't seen it yet. It will be new to my eyes, it will be new to my senses to everything, right. So automatically, I will be also photographically triggered, I mean, this is I would love to capture it, you know, in the way I am experiencing this place, right. But I think what I learned, and when I say learned, part of his part of it is, of course, in some way planted in ourselves, you know, we, we have this dose, we have this interest, we have this passion somewhere there, it's I think it's in each of us somewhere there, but it doesn't serve us every single time. So, you have to kind of practice it, you have to once you realise this moment, you have to you know, so you asked about those little details, for example. Why should a little detail a crack in a straight, you know, creating some kind of shapes creating some kind of pattern, whatever, which I have never seen before? Why should it excite me less than a, you know, line of, of a range of mountain range, which I have never seen before. It's just, it's just a different element. It's a big, big landscape scene. But this is a small thing here somewhere hidden, you know, at the corner of my street. But by itself, it's a visual representative, it's a visual. It's a visual, I don't I'm looking for a word, you know, it's a visual. I mean, it's an image, it's a sin, which, which is out there in front of me. For me, it becomes almost equally exciting. Because I have never seen it before. Wow, look at this crack, look at those lines, what's this, and look at those mountings. So for me, it kind of the line got blurred, I can't differentiate anymore, I don't have to I'm and I'm happy, I don't have to because I get excited about this few stones on the street. And I get excited about the mountain range in Indonesia, which I haven't ever seen before. So I think it's, it's working in a similar way. You know, what I also want to add is very often when, you know, pointing a camera at something, or photographing something in particular, you know, being again, this mountain range, or some kind of object in front of me, and I probably, many of us have the same feeling it's, of course, we pointed the camera in a certain direction at a certain element. But I feel like what's coming into this final photograph is also everything else, which we are experiencing, you know, with our body with our senses, smells, you know, touch, wind, whatever it might be. So it's all around me, which inspires me and tries to I'm trying to convey this feeling, you know, which is living inside of me, you know, based on all of those elements and essences, I'm trying to convey in this, you know, four by three kinds of frame, which I am, which I'm composing. Yeah, I could go forever and always, but you can sense it's kind of, it's a big kind of experience. It's a very complex experience. But I can have it exactly in a grand, amazing scene, you know, of one of the, you know, most exciting landscapes in the world or whatever. But I can have it also in my bathroom, right. Yeah, that's, yeah, 24:25   that's incredible. And I think, you know, a lot of photography personalities anyway, because of the social media doesn't appreciate that smaller detail doesn't appreciate that point of discovering something new, you know, and I know like a lot of, for example, like a lot of people, a lot of people that wanted to learn from me, they say it's like, well, you know, I can't travel like you do, but you just show how you could have the same excitement for the same passion and energy and energy From the things that could be around a corner of your house or even in your house, and, you know, like, the word travel doesn't necessarily mean you have to fly to the other side of the world and really love 25:13   Yeah, we tend to forget that some of the most famous, most respected and, you know, photographers in the history of photography. And you can really start with names, of course, like, like Cardi B song, he was walking the streets of his town, right? He was not travelling to Venezuela, and you know, Fiji, and wherever he was walking the streets of his town, and he's in the history books, because he was seeing things around his neighbourhood. Right, and capturing in a way that we just, we start drooling when looking at those images. And he was for sure excited about the things you know, so just take the camera, start walking your street, but start looking, you will see things which you have never noticed before, because you you were dreaming about travelling to Japan or to Korea or China, you know, so yeah, photograph, photographs are everywhere, right? Photographs are really everywhere, and you can start also crafting your own visual language, just on the streets of your of your own neighbourhood, you know, you will be really surprised. So, yeah, I think I 26:31   really, I really, really love what you just said there. Because, you know, I think the social media and not just you know, because now we're in the attention, time, right, where everything has to be fibrin, and ground and all that stuff. So we forget the small details that make a big difference. And you just, you know, kind of show how even the smallest thing could make a big difference in your photography. So I really enjoy that. Thanks for sharing that. Too much. Cool. So, you know, so when I come across your community, you know, your, your magazine, I see something different, you know, it's not the type of things that I came across, in, in normal photography. World or, you know, place and I'd like to hear a little bit more about what inspired you to start frames? And what is your vision and mission with the frames magazine? 27:37   I think yeah, so we are starting to touch on this on this community aspect, you know, of my activities. And, you know, like, in a nutshell, what we have been just talking about for the last, you know, 20 minutes you can see how excited I'm getting how, how, how happy I am to, to, to keep sharing those ideas, you know, I don't know now with your listeners on a, you know, at home with friends, when we're having coffees, and you know, I get the same I get, you know, energised exactly and excited and I think at some point, you know, in my life I do, I realised that I have this urge to, to share this excitement, to open people up to you know, to inspire them to, to exactly to start telling them you know, about the possibilities, you know, which are endless when it comes to working on your own art, you know, exactly in your own surroundings, you know, to do, to unlocking to to unlock their potential potential, you know, artistic potential, and so on, so forth. So, at some point I realised, I, I'm also enjoying it, and you know, and I also realised that people really start reacting, you know, to, to my own excitement. So, I think that's when it all started that I realised that I, you know, I'm, you know, I open to, I started a Facebook group, basically, yeah, I think it was the very beginning of frames, you know, I started a Facebook group and started to you know, interacting with other members, you know, talking about the photographs, sharing mine, and so on and so forth. So I think my passion to photography got combined with this urge with this need to, to interact with other people and you know, and kind of growing together because I also learned so much, you know, from from other members, it's just, it's just amazing and, you know, and it's an ongoing process and that's how it started the community, you know, the groups on internet and then in the end, I also felt like I wanted to give those people this outlet, you know, to present their work in a in a printed fashion which is, you know, you would again, think today in the world. to social media and all digital, I wanted to also show them because I also print myself quite a lot, you know, and I was always really happy, really fascinated with how the images, you know, end up looking on paper, or you know, or when you hang them on your wall. So I wanted also to show them this, you know, not everything is happening on your, on our computer screens, try this, try showing to, you know, send me your images, maybe we can print them in my, in the magazine, and so on, so forth. So, yeah, you know, just, I guess these are those elements, you know, passion plus this edge of connecting, you know, like we are now you know, like, again, now we are connecting with your community, you know, to to your podcast, it's just amazing what, and of course, technology is helping us today in a crazy way. I mean, we you are in Valley, right? Yeah, I'm in Switzerland, people listening in New York, it's just crazy. We forget how thankful we should be to, you know, when I think about my parents life, the first few decades, such things didn't exist. It's just insane. Right? So yeah, we are blessed, and then we should be really thankful. And then I think I'm kind of, yeah, using those channels to, to, to connect to spread the love, you know, right to to photography. 31:24   Yeah, that's incredible. You know, I, I love seeing photos on the screen and social media. But when I print those photo, it's a different feeling right? When you can see it and touch it and see it on your wall, I have a few on my wall here as well, you know, and it's just a different feeling. And I really enjoy it. And I know exactly how you feel. So I really like the idea of printing your photos in magazine and so forth. And I think that's really cool. So, you know, once you kind of build that community, and you come up with this idea of, you know, what, maybe there is another way of getting people out of the computer, even for just you know, a few minutes or you know, an hour or two and going through some of those art in an old fashioned way where people have more time. Because I think one of my biggest problem about consuming art in social media is not the screen itself. But the attention span, like people seems to just scroll and stop appreciating you like, oh, yeah, cool, or, you know, nice, great, you know, but it's, they never really stopped, right? Because there's always going to next note, there's going to be next notification. Next, pop next, whatever it is right with the technology. But when you look at it in an old fashioned way, you kind of switch off and you know, when you look at an art in a magazine, or in a printed fashion, you have the ability to kind of isolate yourself in the art itself. And that's what I love about it. So, when you come up with this idea, right? Oh, you know what, we should share these magazines and stuff like that. What? I'd like to hear a little bit more about what it did journey on getting to where it is right now. Because right now, you're on what fourth edition? 33:27   This is 10th edition we are working on has had a crazy time. socializations Yeah. 33:35   So and so how do you go from you know, having simply just a community of people who passionate about photography, to having a 10th edition quarterly edition. So that's almost three years now you're coming into the three years mark, and that's just incredible. So how did how did that journey go? And what are some of the challenges that you came across to get to where you are right now. 34:04   You also needless to say, you know, translating an idea to reality, it requires certain steps, you know, determination and but, you know, division of the printed photography magazine was pretty strong in you know, I had it in me for for for some more years, you know, and the whole frames magazine story started actually when the when the pandemic, you know, hit the world. I had more time, right, more more time at home, but also I felt and you know, after having some conversations with people, I felt it's a, funnily enough, I mean, not the worst moment to try and to do it because, you know, people were looked at homes so we couldn't travel and photograph as much as we would like. But we at the same time, or even more, we were then we are looking for some sources of inspiration, you know, for some to keep us here on this on this is, you know, our levels of excitement and artistic you know, you know, having those influences. So, yeah, great started when, you know, in parallel with COVID Now when it comes to steps, you know, I had the vision and and I made the decision myself is just, it's just gonna happen. So, step by step learning what was there to be to be learned, you know, and overcoming any kind of obstacle which was there, you know, like looking for printers, learning how to, you know, translate the digital files into a right print profiles, you know, and sending them to printers, and then looking for distribution, day by day, step by step, just, you know, I was following my plan. And the only thing which was, you know, which kept me going was my very clear vision, I just, I just pre visualised this, this magazine in my hand. And step by step I was, I was just going after it, you know, and it was not always the easiest thing, of course, in the beginning, you know, you have to pull it off, you have to organise everything you have to make, make sure that you are not going bankrupt. Along the process, right, this is a printed magazine, they are completely different costs when it comes to printing. And, you know, my vision was also going really for the, for the best possible quality, which I, you know, I could possibly afford, you know, and the photographs had to look just beautiful, you know, we are giving each each photograph in the magazine, it's dedicated page. So it's, that, that ties nicely to what you were talking about before, you know, we want people looking at the photograph to slow down, right? We, you're looking at one image at a time, it has space, you can concentrate on it. So you turn the page, you know, and it starts speaking to you, because there is exactly, there's no distractions and no notifications popping up from the printed pages. You have to sit down somewhere, you know, find your corner, you know, have a glass of wine, maybe or you know, have a coffee, just be careful not to spill it and you start enjoying it but enjoying an image one, one in one photograph at a time, right? And it's a big difference. So you can start this. And of course, the format is bigger than on a, let's say, on an iPhone or on a phone. Right? So it's a completely different way of interacting, interacting with a photograph. Yeah, so yeah, step by step, you know, and yeah, many hours, many sleepless nights. And here we are. So but today, I'm really really happy with it. And so and so seems to be many other many, you know, of our subscribers and readers. So, it's possible. Yeah, it's possible just and, and it absolutely applies to everything, what what your own, you know, personal vision might might be, you just have to, we tend to think about the goals right? Very often, we have a goal. And we, we fixate on this goal, but you know, like with with every other goal when when you want to walk from point eight, A to Z, or that right? There is B, C, D, E, F G on the way which you can skip, nobody can jump so far right? You have to make 26 steps from A to Zed is it 26 Either way, but no. Just make your small steps. Keep making each step you know at a time and you will get to your goal. That's it. Wow, that's my This is nothing. But this is nothing you know, it's nothing. It's not a huge discovery of myself, you know, but I also had to learn it. But today I know if I said any other goal for myself, I know it will take time, effort and those steps and that's it. The problem is so many of us give up after B because it feels difficult, it takes a bit long, you know or maybe there's something distracting. And then we get frustrated because we don't get to the goal but the satisfaction of getting to the Zed point is huge. And you know the feeling of accomplishment and you know believe in yourself and in your vision. And then you look back and look at those Yeah, exactly. Like you know asked me about all those small steps and they were there. I didn't you know, send out a few 1000s of magazines that first week I did it right. But it needs this time and those steps along the way. No other no other way to achieve it. 39:58   That is so inspiring. That is so in aspiring and you know, I guess with this again the era of right now it's all about instant right? Everything is instant you you you buy from Amazon, it's their next day you you look at, you post something you get likes right away and along the line, I think we we forgot something very important in our life that the process the journey to get there. And this is so inspiring, you know what you mentioned here? Because, well, first of all, you started a physical product during pandemic where it's very difficult right to go out there physically. And most people are studying virtual stuff, and you study the physical stuff. Second thing, I have printed photo books myself, I've you know, I have searched for not only a good quality, but an affordable one to be, you know, to so that it's profitable, and all that stuff. And I know how much effort that comes, you know, the search, the discovery, the different bits and pieces, and you know, where you try to show the importance of the quality to the printer because they just print it, right, they don't understand art. So when I saw your, your, what you do and what you put together, I was very intrigued, because, you know, I know how difficult to put that together. But you know, hearing your story here is just incredible. Because you're absolutely right, we have to go to the A, B and C and D and you know, so forth. And maybe you skip a letter, but you can't skip, you know, 10 letters that well. 41:45   And also, you know, and one one last thing, I mean, we tend to forget, or like get kind of maybe scared or discouraged by by exactly by the process itself. But we tend to forget that this entire process is also an enjoyable thing. It's not like it, okay, depends on your approach, but it I was not suffering, I was enjoying this process, I was enjoying the challenges and efforts, you know, sure, if I will be suffering physically will be different thing. But you know, if you have division, you if you want to bake a cake, you have to bake the cake, you have to look for ingredients, you have to go shopping, you have to start mixing them, you have to bake it, people are usually enjoying, right. So it's the sales, we don't forget that the process itself might be NT usually is an enjoyable thing if we are working towards the goal we are excited about. So but somehow we have this nature that we often get discouraged by the amount of steps, right? Because we think oh my God, so many things to work on, that each of those things, each of those steps is enjoyable, if it's something you enjoy doing. So don't let those you know, like little steps and dip the entire process and timeline. discourage you it's Yeah. And I think 43:17   that's, that's very inspiring. And I want to I want to kind of elaborate on and touch a little bit more into that, that that what you just mentioned there. So, you know, like a lot of us really, like you say we want you we have a goal, and we have this vision and we want it to happen right away. Like everybody wouldn't happen right away, right? It's just your nature. That's that's okay. But you say something that's, I think, very important, right? That along the line, there are process, and there are ways to enjoy the process. And you know, one thing that I want to get your take on is think we can recognise that not everything that we need to do from A to Zed is going to be enjoyable, but you manage to find the good and enjoy it anyway. So one thing that I'd like to get your opinion on or your wisdom on is how can people do that? Right? When they going when they have a vision in mind when they want it to go to that? And they're currently at A or C or you know, G how do they enjoy the each one of the step, the journey to get there so that they don't give up so that they don't get discouraged so that they keep going and push themselves forward to get to their goals. 44:41   So I think the well this is, again, a great question, not an easy answer, because you know, everybody functions differently and so on so forth. And every project is different, bigger, smaller, you know, but okay, if we if we if we like to break any kind of process into those steps you're starting at a Let's say you get to be, first of all, you have to give yourself a really strong pat on the back that you have to be because you know, 90% of people don't get to be really like nine. Most most of the people working on similar maybe are dreaming about similar projects or goals. They don't even start. It's a bit sad. I would love to encourage encourage those people to to you know, to go on and but it's the fact because most there are so many I'm unconvinced, there's so many amazing ideas in the world, they are not even getting started on. So nobody gets makes it to be. If you make it to be you should celebrate. You know, let's say you want to make a photography book. So what you did today, you took a piece of paper, you wrote seven ideas, and you sketched the cover of your book, you should celebrate 90% of people didn't even do this this step. And I think in turn, it will encourage you to okay, what's the what's the C step? And suddenly you are at F and K, you know, people saw a really Yeah, celebrate little steps along the way. Tell about them. Tell about the yo yo your family, your friends, you know, whatever. You know, I sketched my book today on a piece of paper looks amazing. I'm so excited. Yes, you should be. Because you 99% of other people dreaming about the book didn't sketch them, their book on the on the piece of paper, it's huge. I tell you, let's think about it this way. And if you manage, and you know, every next step, when you accomplish it, it will fuel you, I guarantee it will inspire you to go on. And in a way, okay, this might be the point you were asking about. And in a way, every next of those steps gets easier. Because you start believing in yourself, you start celebrating it, you start getting more excited, you start getting closer to your goal, you know. So then like you say, maybe you can skip one letter, but you can skip you know, 25. But if you get closer to the goal, you get even more excited, right? It's like we are running a marathon and you see the goal. You can be exhausted, but you will keep running right. So yeah, that's it. I think that's it, you know, but and I think you are going to we're going to actually ask me about the end at the end of the of the podcast, you know, to the disk device, so I will keep it so I will keep it to the end of the episode. 47:56   Yeah, that's I mean, that's, that's perfect. You know, it's, it's something, I really, I'm very thankful that you brought that up, because I feel I went through that period of, you know, never, always focusing on the lack, right, you get to be you get to see you get to D but the thing that I think about is that, yes, I get there, but I still have all of the steps that I haven't got there. And I think most people kind of stuck on that bit. And it discouraged them. So 100% I'm so grateful that you brought it up. And I think it's very important that the listeners out there hear this because it is very true. You know, like, like you say you you build up a momentum from your little wins. But you really need to reward yourself from from doing that. And a lot of us forget that the small steps are a big MC are the one that makes a big difference. So very well put, you know, I really enjoyed that. Thanks a lot of time, you know, for putting that true, but you need money that you say that, you know, you're saving, there's less wisdom, where can I come into the one hour mark, and we're gonna get to your wisdom right now. But one thing that I want to touch before we get into that is that now you're developing an app right for your community and for people and you have also you putting together a group of photographer and you know, in the form of photo club, right. So just give us a little bit a little bit background on how do you feel that the app and photo club can help you. You know, deliver your vision through through this through this platform. Because at the end of the day, all of this is just a platform, right? Whether it's a Facebook or Instagram, but the way we We use it is up to us as human being as Creator as a visionary. So, what have you got envision? And how do you vision people use the app, as well as you know, being part of the club can help you reach that vision. 50:20   So, yeah, just briefly, so everything ties, you know, into, to back to this idea of community. And because because I think about frames as a community, you mentioned it also few times. We were working on mobile photography app. And it might sound now a bit contra intuitive, you know, coming back to the idea of, you know, photography belonging on paper, but just to make things clear, of course, frames photography, we know printed quarterly magazine is the is the kind of main pillar of everything, what we are, you know, about, at Francis about this is we are the most proud of, you know, the printed magazine, the idea of mobile application started kind of in those, you know, weeks or months, where, where Instagram was getting some kind of critique, and maybe still getting, you know, from the photography, photographers community, you know, when it comes to the algorithms, or the idea that they now prefer, you know, maybe showing more video in the app than then still photographs. I'm still, you know, actually, to be honest, I'm enjoying Instagram a lot, you know, and I'm also getting connection over there. And in my personal feed, you know, Instagram feed, everything is actually looking pretty, pretty nice, you know, I can't play but I can imagine, maybe based on your location, geographical location, whatever it might be, your Instagram is maybe behaving differently. So anyway, I, of course, I heard about many complaints about from photographers about Instagram. And a week, you know, I came up with the idea of creating a, quote unquote, proper photography app. I mean, Instagram is a great photography app, but it's not per se, a photography app. I mean, it started as a photography app, basically. But what it is today is, is a social media platform, right? Kind of photography heavy, maybe now more video heavy, I don't know, what we are creating is a friend's photography app. And it's a purely and really heavily oriented you know, photography oriented photographer oriented application, we will be having things like portfolios, you know, photo series in it, you will be able to share, you know, you will be able able to export, export your your foot portfolio and share it with with whoever you want via email, you know, or via special link and so on and so forth. But everything ties back to again, to community, the idea is to gather enthusiasts, you know, photography lovers around this app, you know, to be able to also look at people's work and look for people we could be potentially, you know, featuring in the printed magazine, you know, we will be also having a special fit in the app, you know, where we'll be it will be a kind of like a again, like a kind of like a magazine. But you know, of course different from the printed magazine, it will be more informative with articles not on gear, we are not going into gear, there's enough technology and everything is there are some great great platforms out there right. But we will be covering you know, photography, photography, ideas, thoughts, you know, portfolios, conversations with photographers in the app itself. So next to your portfolio, your photo your you know, friends and people you follow their, their work right. And their their feeds, you will have this in app magazine, which will be inspiring you again, so you will have two sides sharing your own work following other people's work but also getting inspiration from from photography related content. Nice things the thing to mention I can mention earlier today is that the application will be completely free of charge. So this is again a nice one a nice bonus here. And at the same time yeah, we are you are right, we are launching what's called a friends photography circle. This is a membership kind of club, you know, you can think about it like as a as a you know, think about your local photography club, does that still exist, where you really go in there and meet friends you know, and start discussing photography, having guest speakers, you know, this will be happening in the, in the friends photography circle, of course, mainly online because we will be international. But we are thinking also about you know, having meetings in the future we are thinking about working towards a friend's photography book, yearly yearly photography book. But again, what's the most exciting about it is, you know, we'll be making friends around the world and you know, hopefully meeting each other in the future, you know, working on exhibitions together and so on and so forth. So, yeah, if I can mention, if it's okay with you, you know, just quickly, it's, it's still possible to, to, to join to apply, you know, to reframes photography circle, you can visit our website, you know, drop me a message to the contact form, and I will, you know, share all the necessary details here. But yeah, many things happening. Yeah, definitely, towards the end of this year. 55:24   Yeah. Wow, that's, you know, I really love that. And I think one of the things that really intrigued me about the app that you're putting together, when you have it as an idea, still I saw, you know, on the on friends Facebook group, is that, how you're focusing on the immersion to the photography, right, instead of just a scrolling app, like to say, an attention grabbing app, right? You have this the immersion into one photography, with the story with the interaction, and I think it's great, you know, you mentioned about that, like, you know, portfolio and, you know, the interface and stuff like that, and you put it very well there, you know, that it's, it's, it's good to have, I mean, we love the you know, the entertainment part of Instagram and Facebook, and that's what they're moving across to right. But at the same time, we also miss that time where we can connect to a deeper level. And I think that's something that we really miss in this new era. So I really enjoy that. And you kind of couple that with the photo club as well, photo circle, you mentioned now, just quickly, actually, you know, like, before we get into that, I might, I might ask you this, the last question first, and then we get into that now. So it's been really great conversation, I really appreciate having you here. And you've dropped a lot of wisdom, a lot of new perspective, which I think it's really important in our life, right perspectives. Now, what is that one wisdom or one advice that you would give either your younger self or anyone, if they ask, you know, like, Tomash? If there is one advice that you could give me, what would that be? 57:22   Yeah, so most probably will be the one which I kind of talked about already, but let me like, rephrase it and kind of put it into in a in a shorter, you know, form is, if you have a dream goal idea. You know, you are really, you know, striving to to achieve and, you know, keeps you awake at night, and so on. But you feel a little bit stuck on, you know, maybe overwhelmed with with the whole concept of this of this goal and and make a quick reset in your head and go out and tomorrow, make the first step, make the smallest step towards this goal. Because it can it can really, like, trigger the avalanche. You know, like, I know, and I know it myself and exactly is is the younger me. I was, you know, maybe not courageous enough, maybe doubting my own ideas, and, and some of them never came to fruition, of course, you know, but I learned this lesson and and that's what I apply today. If, if you have an idea or a goal, you have a goal, which of course you believe in, you know, it's a viable goal. But you kind of feel a bit stuck and overwhelmed, maybe scared to go this path, but you really want to want it right, make the first step. It can be one email, it can be one sketch on a piece of paper. But it's one step. You know, it's like avalanche and snow avalanche in in the mountains. A little ball of smoke or you know, a little what's the flake of snow can trigger a huge avalanche, right? Just just make this step and make it tomorrow. Or even better today, right? And you will you will reach your goal. You know, you'll be so much closer to reaching your goal. So that would be it. I think I didn't keep it really short. But yeah, I 59:25   know, my point. Yeah. I love that. I love how you use the, you know, the analogy of small flake can make and can create an avalanche and I think that's what we're working towards right and being patient to keep making that. Keep trying that small flick until the avalanche happened. That's, that's that's what we want to keep doing until the goal is right in front of us. So thanks a lot for the wisdom. Donation. It was it was incredible. You know I really enjoy that I really enjoy your perspective and the way you see photography and new world. So yeah, like I guess one thing that I want to get to understand why you know the listener might be interested about this as well is share with us a little bit about the photo club when they join you know, what sort of experience they will get to be to be part of the friends community. And you know, how how, how it can help them to appreciate either photography or even improve their photography at one point or another. 1:00:39   Yeah, so maybe before I mentioned really a little bit in detail what it's all about so just to clarify, I mean, frames magazine when you become a subscriber to frames magazine you are becoming basically a you know, a member of our community. You can also become a member of our community without subscribing who just consult for us on Facebook let's say yes, we have a group and but of course, I encourage you very much to have a look at the magazine it's a different experience you know, it's a printed magazine so when you become a subscriber, you automatically get access to some you know, digital content as well, which is accompanying the printed magazine and is our basic offering and this is what what we are all about. Now the friends photography circle, you know, and it comes up three years after when you know, frames was actually born. It's this most in depth, you know, group of photography enthusiasts, you know, it's something for those people who who really, absolutely want to, you know, study you know, follow learn from from those best photography sinkers, you know, and talkers and, you know, gallery curator, curators, photographers, we will be having this kind of environment within this, you know, friends photography circle. So, when it comes to elements of this, of this of this club, we will be having meetings with those guest speakers, so exactly photographers, museum gallery curators, you know, add other editors and so on so forth, we will be having self curating meetings of the group when we will be looking at each other's photographs, you know, and kind of curating them towards this yearly goal of of publishing a friend's photography book. So being a member, you are kind of guaranteed, you will get your image into this book, right, but we will be working on it together discussing those things, we will be having an open weekly frames cafe, so is a virtual place, which you can pop in once a week, you know, every week, and start making those friends you know, and start making those other enthusiasts from from other places in the world discussing we will be popping in there. Also some guests, it's kind of like a virtual cafe. So, and then of course, we will be having some kind of critic photo critic sessions you know, like being them from from those guests, you know, from the you know, our guest speakers, they will be looking at our photo add members photographs, right, but also discussing them with with each other, right. And then in the end, we are also planning of Yeah, it would be the jewel in the crown, yeah, to, to organise if maybe a few on location meetings of frames clap, you know, in different in different locations around the world, you know, and ideally, also with one of those acclaim photographers, you know, to join us on those meetings. So, again, as you can already feel this is, again, about community, of course, we will be providing our members with all those, you know, lectures, talks, you know, presentations, critiques, but we really want to make sure that friendships are being formed that this photography passion is what starts connecting, you know, and forming new ideas within the club. So the friends photographer, circle will be a club, which will be evolving, naturally formed by ideas and you know, input from all its members, it yeah, pretty sure will be an amazing experience, you know, and, yeah, we'll be lovely. If you some of your listeners, who would, you know, as I said, just drop me a message to the website, and I will be more than happy to serve some more, some more details. 1:04:34   Fantastic. Yeah, that's, that sounds like an amazing club to be in, you know, like, just listening to what you share and the community that you have on Facebook is, you know, very, very lively, very engaging, and you know, on the other platform as well, as well, as you know, you're creating your own platform. So that's very, all very exciting. Well, too much. You know, thank you very much for being here really thoroughly. Enjoy our chat. and getting to know you better. Now for the listeners who want to get to know you know, the frames magazine yourself as well as the the photo club where the the circle that you're you're putting together for 2023 Where is the best way to get in touch with you. 1:05:20   So the absolutely best way is just to visit, you know, the frames website. So you can go to read frames.com You know, and then follow the links in the menu, you will, you will find the links to all all the different exactly elements of our platform magazine and the club. You know, there is also many, many articles on the website itself, which we are you know, releasing every couple of days, there is a there is a new piece. So read frames.com. And I think it's the number one, I mean, the best, the best place to to get started with frames. 1:05:55   Fantastic, yeah, we'll, we'll put some of the link on the comment on the description below. So don't worry, it's all gonna be there. So go to that I'll we'll also put the link to the Facebook group, if you want to be part of the community as well as the the way the contact form in order to get in touch with Tomash. If you want to get, you know, to join the photo club, it's, it sounds like an amazing experience, you know, especially with what we've been through in this recent years, you know, I think it's more than ever we people are realising that, that passion is very important because we it's like a wake up call, right, we finally understand how important our time is that there is no guarantee it's going to be tomorrow. And we never know when it's going to be too late, you know, so? Yeah, I think more than ever, we should focus on our passion and pursue that so well, so much. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for being part of the podcast, sharing your journey, sharing your wisdom and well we can hunters, hopefully you enjoy that. That podcast, that conversation, a lot of wisdom dropped there. And don't forget to say hi to Tomash if you enjoy this, you know, give him a sense of appreciation. And please feel free to contact him go to the website and check out what he's been building. It's an absolutely incredible community as well as you know, if you like like Tom, I say if you don't want to be a subscriber yet, then it's okay. Go to the Facebook get involved. Because I can tell you it's a really good community. Well, with that being said, you know, we've been here for a little over an hour now. Thank you for you know, hanging out with us and you know, chilling and I always think about this podcast, like a chill in a coffee coffee cafe. So it's, it's it's great to kind of just hang out with you. Well, thank you, Thomas, for being here. And yeah, we'll we'll keep chatting and we'll keep connecting. 1:08:08   Yeah, Stanley, thank you so much for having me. It was really great conversation and everybody. Remember about your first step today. 1:08:17   That is a great advice. All right, we can just don't forget to hit the subscribe button and also leave a review if this is something that you enjoy. But with that being said, I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters, This week I'm excited to chat with Kristin Piljay, Kristin Piljay has been an internationally-published photographer for over two decades and has travelled to many places in search of knowledge, beauty, and adventure. She tends to wander off into the wilderness of the mountains, desert and forest, but she can also be found occasionally in cities. Starting as a portrait photographer in the 1990s, she eventually became a travel photographer for Lonely Planet Images stock agency and some of her images have been published by Lonely Planet, Mountain Sobek Travel, Pearson Education, Microsoft, Condé Nast, Cengage Learning, Oprah Winfrey Network, Hearst Corporation, Aerial Dance Festival, Redbull and BBC Travel. For those who want to get to know Kristin better you can go to: https://linktr.ee/KristinPiljay  https://www.wanderlustphotos.com/ Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr    For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe --------- Transcription: 0:00   All these tweets about artists saying they can finally make a living at art and artists actually making money because like the kind of the whole thing with the stock photography, where you people are paid like one centre for centre, whatever for their art or their photo or video, it was just so insulting 0:25   Hey wiki hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey and share how photography given us all purpose and happiness. And today we have somebody who I've met through Twitter, and it's pretty cool. Actually, I haven't chatted with her too much, but just going to some of her photograph coming in trade. And I want to have her here in the podcast and talk about her journey. Good morning, Kristen. Welcome to the Art of Photography podcast, or actually, it's even in your place, isn't it? 1:00   Well, yeah, I can say good morning, because it's good morning. There's always good morning in the NFT. World. That is true. 1:06   It is always good morning. That is so funny. I remember. I asked this question while back it's like, is it GM or GM? Like how do you you know, which one do you say is like, it's always a GM. By the way, listeners, you know, in the NFT world or in web three world, GM means Good morning, I, it took me I think about four months trying to figure that out. That was so funny. Very excited to have you here. So before we get started, just tell us a little bit about who you are and what got you into photography. 1:41   Well, um, I am mostly like a travel and nature photographer. But I've actually done a lot of different types of photography. But it all kind of started when I was a child. And I just I had, I'm 57. So I, you know, I remember what a pocket camera was some people in who are older will know what that is. But it was like kind of like this, like oblong kind of rectangular like little thing. And I and I had one of those. And I was an exchange student in Germany, when I was in high school. And I had an aunt that gave me he's like, Oh, you seem to take good photos. He's like, you can borrow my SLR camera. And so she lent me this camera. And the funny thing is that it was a it was totally manual, but the light metre was broken. And so if you can believe it, I just guessed to what to set. To set it, I actually looked at the film that I bought, and it said, you know, like, if it's sunny than the US like 125, and then F 11. And so that's what I would do. And I kind of just guessed, and the thing is, is like, I don't know, I was shooting negative film. So there's some leeway, but like, it seems like that my photos like when I would get them developed, they were like, you know, they were exposed properly. So but that, so I travel, I was in school in Germany, and I travelled around. And then when I came back and showed people my photos, they were like, Oh, you have a good eye for photography. And so when I graduated from high school, I asked my parents to, I said, I would like to have like my own camera, because I had given that one back to my aunt. So then they got me a canon. And that's when I started, you know, I don't know, just kind of experimenting. And when I would travel, I kind of mostly would shoot whenever I would travel. And then eventually, I couple years after that, like in my early 20s, I started taking photography classes. So I learned how to develop film, like black and white photography, and then developing it in the dark room and everything. And that was like a lot of fun. And just doing the assignments that I was given. But early on, I actually started photographing when I was doing black and white, I photographed food. And I did all these kinds of interesting, like kind of still lifes with food. And my parents don't have some of those, like on their walls. Some of them were like milk and cookies, that kind of an or like milk and eggs and that sort of thing. And and I guess I started when I moved to San Francisco in the early 90s, I started shooting more portraits and I still was taking photography classes and I was working in an office and somebody asked me if they if I could take photos of them and their boyfriend and so I started doing portraits and then like kind of word spreads. And so then I started photographing people's kids and then like even somebody's wedding, a wedding or two and that sort of thing. So I and after headshots and I kind of started that's how I started doing, like more professional photography. And so I did kind of start out more with portraiture, but then when I would travel then I would just photograph and I would travel. And I guess I started doing travelling Like more travel, travel photography, like, around the year 2000 2001. And I started shooting slides, and I actually was accepted by a stock agency. And that started, like my experience with stock agencies, which I'm sure is most people know, are really like, it's really kind of horrible right now. But like back then, it was a little bit different. And it was all like slides, and even the agency, I went in person in San Francisco, and would like to deliver my slides. And, and I had some sales. I mean, it wasn't anything huge. But then I swear it was super quick. Even just like a few years after that, like the sales decreased and the prices decreased. I don't know, it seemed like when it started with digital photography, because like I was excited about digital photography, and I switched to digital in 2004. But once it became, it seemed like it became easier and more accessible. And people started shooting more photos. Because like when I used to shoot slides, I used to like, look through my slides like on it, I would look through my slide with a loop, and also look at the exposures because you had a bracket your exposures, and I would sit at a table and I have a light box. And then I would just toss the ones on the floor that were bad like that I was gonna throw away, which seems like such a horrible waste. So I'm kind of glad that I'm not doing that sort of thing anymore. That threw away like all this film all that like chemicals and developing and just throwing like all these slides away. So that's kind of how I got into that sort of photography. And then later on, I actually worked as a photo researcher in textbook publishing. And that actually was supposed to be a part time job. And then I wanted to basically be a full time photographer. But I was never very good at marketing myself. And so I kind of stuck with the stock photography thing. But through my work in working for a publisher, as a photo researcher, sometimes they needed photos to be photographed specifically for some of the science textbooks I was working on. And so they started hiring me as a photographer, so I started shooting for the textbook publisher. But like professional photography was always like a part time job for me. So I always had like another main job. And unfortunately, like I kind of wanted like that just to be a part time job, the photo research and, and to be mainly be a photographer, but I ended up it ended up being reversed. And I got more and more work as a photo researcher, and, and not as much work as a photographer. And then just because of the way the business changed with textbook publishing, and also stock photography, I started doing less and less photography, and I didn't shoot for the publisher anymore. And even the photo research was going to overseas. So I, I kind of, I'm at the point now where I work as a project manager and textbook publishing, and, and then I work for slike doing social media marketing on mostly on Twitter. And then there's still the photography, which started I started making more money finally, again, on photography because of NF T's. Because I mean, like the stock photography, you can actually if you look at my sales, and the stock agencies that I'm in, the price is just getting lower and lower and lower. And recently, I actually had some sales. And they gave me one cent like the agency, two cents, and they gave me one cent. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? 8:48   No, 100% You know, like seeing the market kind of move that way? I mean, you know, I think I, it took me a while to understand that, you know, that's not how you make money to stock photography. And it I only know this when I was talking to Paul, this guy, actually the one on the first person that I interviewed in, in this podcast, and I asked him about, you know, stock photography, is it worth it? And you know, the way he approached it is the way you approach it back then it's not it's not going to the stock size sites, but actually going direct to the consumer, the people that are looking for it, you know, whether it's an agency or the actual company, and that's how it's being valued a lot more compared to stock photos. But you're right, you know, and nowadays it's so hard because iPhone, take a great photo, right? Yeah. So then it's not necessarily I mean, we all know that in order to be a good photographer. It's not just the camera but you know, from that the mindset kind of shift, you know the value kinetic Freeze. So from someone who been shooting all the way back from the film era, you know, to the digital era, and now I could say to the mobile phone era, how do you see the value shifted along this years? And what do you think about that? 10:19   Well, it's really actually disappointing that the value shifted. And I mean, it depends on the type of photography to so like travel photography, I mean, I mean, just kind of, if you do photography, where you're using models, and you're doing setups, that's actually a totally different thing. But if you're actually shooting things like, lens, you know, kind of landscapes of travel, not kind of really complicated landscape, but the kind of there's also just the really, like, Oh, this is a nice landscape to show a place you might want to travel to, or, I mean, that was the kind of photography that I did. I mean, I did other things on my own. That was kind of separate, like, kind of more artistic and stuff, but like, the main thing, I mean, like when I first started doing travel photography, sorry, photography, that wasn't also travel. I mean, anatomy, I, some of my most popular images were like a bowl of potato chips, you know, so I actually kind of was like, sort of a little bit upset about that, and like, like my beautiful landscapes and sell, but like this bowl of potato chips keeps like being sold. Although recently my most common on Alamy, that is, has been sold in the past, like two years is this photo of a tree growing in a rock what's called root root wedging. So I've worked on I was working on science textbooks and finding political science textbooks. And I needed to find a photo of root wedging, it was so difficult to find it. And then I went on a hike and I saw the perfect root wedge in photo. And so I took a photo of that. And then now people are using my photo probably in geology textbooks or other things to deal with that to illustrate it. So I mean, there's lots of photography that's like that, where you're illustrating something for like a textbook, or they just need a photo on an apple or something like that. But I mean, like, I mean, I just can't imagine if I could take like a better Apple than, like a lot of other people have already photographed in apple. But, you know, at some point, like, it was kind of new, and there wasn't as many, but there's more and more people in that. And as for equipment, I mean, I can take actually really nice photos on my iPhone. And so, and people can actually have the same phone and take like crappy photos too. So I mean, like, there it is, has, to me, it's more, I mean, there is like a certain quality, if you want to enlarge something. Yeah. Or if you want to make a lot of the do a lot of editing to it, and that sort of thing. I mean, there is like that quality that is not quite the same, but I mean, like they're getting better and better. I mean, like, when I was doing a shoot of some light themes in the Redwood Forest recently, I would actually test the scene with my phone. And then I would shoot with my camera, and my camera had looked really awful like in the viewfinder, because like the phone was like processing it. And then also when I would get the raw photos they was I'm like, oh my god, I have to make this look like my phone. 13:15   That is funny. And you're right, like, you know, the phone are incredible nowadays, right. And it's with the AI and the processing, you know, it helps a lot, even though it has a small camera. And I feel like that's what and the other thing that you said was also 100% Right? You know, just because you have a good camera doesn't make you a better photographer. Just because you have a an iPhone camera doesn't make you a bad photographer, it's a lot to do with who you are as a photographer and the way you interpret the scene. But I think people kind of mindset with that, that with people with everyone being able to take a photo nowadays instead of you know, doing all the settings that kind of take away a lot of the value, the precede value, I suppose. So that was really interesting. You know, I love hearing your story that you know, you started all the way from the film trying to figure it out and we'll do it your digital digital. So you can share you know how you got started in photography and you know, some of the things that you have photography of photograph over the this years. But what I want to hear about your excitement, why what type of photography make you really excited or what, what makes you got into photography in the first place that you know make you stay there on to a point that you want to go to school in photography and learn more about it. 14:51   You know, it's kind of this odd thing, but it's almost like a compulsion. Like some people say it's a passion for them, but for me like I feel like I really want to, like if I see something, I want to capture it, like, I can't just be like, Oh, that's cool. Like I have, I feel like this, this urge to like to preserve it. And I don't even know if it's like to show other people or just like to have it for myself, maybe it's both. But like, for instance, I also another thing that I did in the past was I, I did, I used to be an aerial dancer. So I did like kind of trapeze and circus stuff, and like, aerial silks. And I have some friends in Seattle that have an aerial dance company, and I used to photograph their shows. And and the thing is, is like, when I photographed the show, I felt like I can't, couldn't really watch it, because I was so focused on the photography. So then when I started on doing started doing was I would go and visit them, and then I would shoot, I would, I would just watch once a watch a show. And then I would do a second watch a second show where I would do the photography. And I thought, Well, that's good, because I'll prepare for it. But then the show that I was watching and not shooting, I just felt like oh my god, I'm missing all these like shots. Like all these moments, even though I knew that, like I was gonna like watch it like the second day, like I just like, if I if I actually just watched the show and wasn't shooting it for some reason. I would just be like, I like missing out somehow, you know, like that. Anything. And just recently I was in Portland, I took a it was like an aerial tram there. And there was like, it was beautiful, clear day. And you could see Mount Hood. And I took a photo with my phone, because that's my phone. This was a camera that I have with me all the time because I don't carry like my equipment around all the time. So I was there for another reason. And so I was like, Oh, that looks great. And I took a photo of it in the background, but with like the foreground of a tree with like autumn leaves on it. So then whenever I was going back, it was sunset. And I was like in the tram, and I'm looking at the sunset and the lighting on Mount Hood. And like, oh my god, I was just like, I couldn't like wait, I was like Fran was gonna miss it, you know. But I mean, the thing is, is like I could have just enjoyed it and looked at it, I couldn't really photograph it from the tram. Because there, there were things in the way. And also the windows were dirty. So I was just like, chomping at the bit to like, get up to the top so that I could run out and like go and take a photo, which I did get it. But it was just on the verge of almost being too late, you know, a little bit too dark, it would have been better if I was there just a few minutes early, but it's just like, I don't know, I just I guess I always feel it's just like a compulsion of wanting to capture a visual moment, I guess. 17:43   Yeah, that's, that's interesting. I also felt like that at times, and the, you know, what you just mentioned about, you know, take having the phone with you. And taking a phone with taking a photo with a phone is a good example how, you know, the best camera that you could own is the one that was the one yourself, yeah, that you have. And that is such a good example of that saying, and going back to what you say about the compulsion about experience, and it's really cool to hear how you approach that photography with the aerial dance and you know, performances where you want to experience it, but you also want to take a little bit and you combine the two by doing different things. And it's, I find that it's interesting. I want to ask you, how do you balance between, uh, trying to just enjoy the moment right to just being there and let your eyes and your your body enjoy the experience, whatever it is that you have, versus taking your camera out and actually enjoying it to your camera, because at the end of the day, they're two different experience but what you said earlier was 100% True. It's it's, it's not easy to be able to have a connection with nature, for example, or the Milky Way for my case, and you know, continuously taking photo there has to be a balance so how do you do that when you go out there for example, for your travel photography or from some of your other photography 19:28   Yeah, that's it's kind of Yeah, I agree with you and sometimes I think to myself, maybe I should just like take photos less and not do that. I just can't I just can't just do it without like I you know, I'll just be carrying a bunch of like equipment because especially like in landscape photography, you know, like I end up like climbing like a mountain or something because I like to do that sort of thing. And it would be easier to like not bring like photo equipment with and admittedly when I go backpacking, I don't bring a tripod like I'm kind of focused I'm just like the trip. But I do bring my camera I try to bring something as live as possible. It's one of the reasons I switched to mirrorless because I was tired of lugging my Canon gear around. And I actually didn't go for full frame. I have a Fuji fuji film, I went for the crop sensor because it had smaller lenses. So I was like, I don't want to have a tiny camera with a giant lens, just like my old lenses. I have my Canon, you know? So. But I mean, yeah, I mean, I torture myself for photography, like dragging tripods around. I even went into this, like tiny this, like the slot canyon that you can barely walk through with a tripod monopod would have been better, honestly. But like, so yeah, but I just wanted, I wanted the shots. And so I wanted to it's I guess it's not it's the compulsion to capture a moment, but to create something out of the moment. You know, what, like, it is I don't know, if it's a compulsion for others. Have you heard other people say that, that it feels like that, like, you just have to do it. 21:06   I mean, I felt the same, you know, ie, I used to do that. And when I first probably the first two years of my photography, I was I was like that, you know, every single moment, I want to capture it. I literally have my camera, which I have a five d mark for so it's really heavy, right? Massive camera, and I would take it everywhere, even just for for a dinner or for lunch. But I decided that I want to, you know, it separate myself from the people and the actual experience. So I started to step back a little bit. And yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that, because I haven't heard people mentioning that. But I know that, you know, it is in us, you know, we love photography. And photography is about moment, right? So when there is good moment for power, it's only natural that we want to capture it. It's in our blood. 22:08   What if there's people in that moment, actually taking photos actually changes the moment to I feel like that it does. And although I kind of I used to take the photos, more people, and then I kind of It wasn't intentional that I kind of veered away from that. And then until I was hardly photographing people anymore, like when I was doing travel photography, I always had a lot of people photos in there. And then I kind of shifted and then it became like more of nature and animals and and I kind of actually kind of missed that. And I kind of feel like maybe I shouldn't like, and I forget to do snapshots. Like like when I was travelling in Iceland, I travelled a bit with two friends that live in Europe. And and both of them if it wasn't for them, it I probably would never I wouldn't have any pictures of us or them. I mean, maybe I might take a picture of them. Like if they were kind of like a person in the landscape. Like my one friend had a red jacket. It was awesome. And so she was like my red jacket person and all these like landscapes. But like I wouldn't think of like doing like a selfie or asking someone, hey, take a picture of us together. Like, it's not that I don't want that I actually nice to have it like when it's over. But like, I don't even think about it. Like I'm always like thinking about like creating like a scene rather than just like taking a picture of us. 23:29   You know, I know exactly how that feel. I think about a couple years back, you know, someone asked me it's like, Hey, can you send me your your portrait or a photo of you and I was like trying to think I don't have one. Like literally, I went through all of my photo, I don't have a good photo of me looking at the camera. Every one of them is from my back. So I know exactly how you feel. And yeah, it's interesting to be you know, a landscape, or you know, a travel photographer, because most of the time you're in the back of the camera. So it's really cool hearing your story, really hearing how you transition across, you know, from the film to digital, you actually learn everything, you know, the settings, you actually get thrown into the settings because the Otomo Diem work on your favourite first camera or your camera at that time. And I find that really cool. Now, when it comes to doing photography as a way to make a living, is that something you always wanted to do? Or do you always try? You always you only want to do that part time to preserve the experience of being a photographer itself? 24:49   Well, that's interesting question because yes, I my dream job was as many people have the same dream job of like being like a National Geographic photographer, like Travelling the world and having like assignments and like doing something really super interesting. And that was kind of always in my mind and like, I know that I could create kind of, even just for myself have like an idea and do a shoot like that. But it's, I just kind of, I don't know, I just kind of never have done it, I guess I kind of was afraid. I know, that was one thing that I didn't take a lot of risks, and always had like a backup job, and never tried just to be a photographer. And I did work in photography, because I was like, as a photo researcher, and then I was doing a lot of photography within that job also. But to just be a freelance photographer and try to make money and I actually never I tried to be a commercial photographer. I never had the guts to see like, say, like, I want to be a fine art photographer. I just felt like that was just like, so unattainable. I mean, but I know there are people that do that, but I just didn't have it in me to try for that. So and I have gone through periods of time where I was shooting, I was trying to shoot for stock, or I was just shooting for like the textbook, you know, I shot food. One thing that I really one of the best jobs that I've ever had. The super interesting was I was for the textbook publisher, I photographed the dissection of two cadavers for an anatomy textbook. And that was really interesting. And I often will say that that was one of the best jobs I ever had, because it was just so fascinating. And it was very lucrative too. And I, I even thought to myself, maybe I should be a Cadabra photographer. But I don't know if I always want to do that. And be around all the familiar formaldehyde. And I don't think there's that many calls. I mean, only for like, kind of like textbooks and that sort of thing, like medical books or something. But, but it was a super cool experience. And so I did have some interesting things. But if you only start to it, and somebody that I met recently, actually is a photographer in that, and I said, What kind of photography do you do? And he says, I do photography that people will pay me if somebody pays him and he photographs and he doesn't photograph in any other way. And I'm like, I mean, that's fine. Like, if you have a technical skill, you can do that. And like and I actually had gotten to a certain point, probably about like, maybe nine years ago, where I just felt burned out because I was just I would photograph and people pay me like the textbook publisher, or sometimes I did. I actually photographed marijuana for like a dispensary like America where that was interesting too. Or like products I did like products and stuff like that. But I kind of got burned out a little bit because I just was shooting just to make just because someone was paying me or I would think that I might make money like just doing the stock photography. And so then I started doing some long exposure photography. Just like for myself, I did some self portraits with long exposure where I was a ghost accom is that my ghost photos. And I really love my ghost photos are some of my favourite photos I've ever taken. Although I feel like other people don't like them as much as me. I mean, like some people, my friends seem to really like them. Like people that know me. But other people are seemed kind of lukewarm about, like ghost photos, but so, but those kind of were photos for me and I kind of like sparked like, kind of some creativity. Like I was just shooting photography. I was just shooting just to create something to be creative. Not like because I someone was paying me. 29:00   Yeah, that's incredible. So is that how you got out of your burnout? That's how I got off my burger. Oh, that's fantastic. And that's, that's really interesting, right? Um, we I haven't heard anyone who got into photography because they want to make a lot of money. Right? Even the people who decide to do photography as a profession, they started it because they enjoy photography, you know, they and they just want to do more of it. But over time, the money aspect cannot hit you and you know, you become burnout because you you stop creating for yourself and so forth. So when you had this burnout, and then you find a way to get out of it. What did you learn? Like how did you stop? Stop it from happening again so that you don't get the same burnout you know, in a year two years or five years and so forth. 29:56   Well actually, that kind of stopped because I stopped I stopped getting paying jobs like doing photography for the textbook publisher, and I kind of just didn't, I just didn't do that anymore. And then I just basically then just was, that's when I kind of veered more into landscape photography, because that's what I just felt I just did what I felt like doing. And then I put those in stock agencies and if they sold and that was fine. So I kind of stopped pursuing kind of more of a commercial photography, and just shot what I felt like shooting. And yeah, I also didn't make that much money from it either. So and then, of course, the stock was just putting in the stock agency. So 30:38   yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. So you basically just, you know, do photography more for yourself. And stop, start, you know, doing it for everyone else. And 30:48   I mean, it goes through phases, it's like, if something like for instance, I'm going to Florida next week to visit my parents, but I love to photograph the birds when I go to Florida. So I feel I'll feel excited. Like, I haven't been shooting since I got back from Iceland. Well, I have like 1700 photos, I need to like, you know, go through and process. So like, that's time consuming. But I'm kind of like in a resting phase right now. And I'm not, I haven't been with only been like, a little over a month since I was back. But I think that like, you know, when I go to Florida, I'll I'll do some photography of birds, because I always like, like to photograph the birds there. Oh, that's fantastic. 31:27   Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, it's, it's funny how it kind of worked that way with photography and careers. And sometimes you can hit the wall because you stop creating and being genuine about what you want from your photography. So thanks a lot for sharing that. So one thing that I'm curious, he told us that you are part of the soyka team, you know, doing their marketing. But in the beginning, you told us that you weren't very good at marketing. And now you gotta jump into marketing, right. And I know that as an artist, like I was, I was struggling with marketing law, I think I am still struggling, but I am much better, you know, at least I kind of know what I'm doing. But it's just like, you know, the struggle with myself, doing marketing is just very difficult, because I'm more a creative person, you know, a sailing sort of person. Now, how do you transition across, because we know that if you do want to make if you don't want to sell your photography, if you do want to make money from your photography, you need to be able to market your photography, your art out there. And we have seen this over and over again, where people who have incredible images, but not a good marketing skills, aren't able to sell their photograph versus people who have, you know, a decent photograph. They're like, nothing crazy, but it's, it's, it's good. It's not superb or excellent or, you know, crazy beautiful, but they are able to sell. So what have you learned from this experience, so that the listeners can take, you know, pieces away from that and apply it to their own journey? 33:19   Well, I think for one thing, it's easier to market somebody else's art than your own. And that's like kind of known. And so that's why the NFT space on Twitter is so nice, because people are always like, are helping each other. And when I first entered the NFT space, I only had like 68 followers on Twitter. And if I would tweet something like nobody would see it or comment or anything. And, and I was able to, like early November, to basically like January 1 To go from 68 to 800 followers. I basically build up my followers and kind of just jumped right into the NFT space. And I kind of I don't know, I became good at Twitter, basically. But all I did was I just interact, I was really excited. And I was excited by like, everyone's photos that I was seeing on there. And so I was kind of very hyper tweeting. I tweeted like crazy. I like retweeted everybody's work and was excited and like said all that I just kind of interacted with so many people that it's just and then I started doing those like art threads where I remember the first one I did was on New Year's Eve and I thought oh, probably because I saw other people do them. And I thought well, maybe I'll get more followers and more like, you know, interaction by by doing that, and I did it. I put a photo of a lone tree that was my own and I said share your loan trees with me. And I thought oh, it's New Year's Eve. There's no one's no one's didn't even respond. It was huge. I mean, there was like, I mean, I think that there was like, I don't know how many retweets but like eight 100 likes and like, it just exploded. And I was like, whoa. And so then I kept doing that. But the thing is, is like, whenever I was doing those, I was kind of trying to save something and retweet on almost every photo that somebody put there. And there was a lot of there was like hundreds and hundreds of them. And it was very time consuming. So basically, I got to that point from, by being on Twitter, almost like 16 hours a day or something. I was basic on Twitter, like almost an entire day, because my work is slow in the winter with my textbook publishing. And so it was kind of like, you know, like, November, December, and I was just kind of on Twitter, like a lot, and interacting with a lot of people. And I was kind of successful at building my own Twitter following. And so with sloka, I took silica from 2500 I, whenever they were hiring somebody, I applied for the job. And then they decided to give me a chance. And then I think at the end of January, I think there's like 2500 followers. And then by maturity, we hit 17,000. But we hit 17,000 In September, but I think it was in the first few months that it got to like 10,000 pretty fast, probably within like two or three months. So I kind of just did the same thing for Flickr that I did. So my job for them, the marketing is kind of just like operates mostly just operating the Twitter. And yeah, 36:24   so yeah, that's cool. That's really cool. And I 36:27   think the key is to interact, it's just said, it's very time consuming. I mean, for me in the NFT space, it was being in being, it was very helpful to be in a collective, because I was involved in being a collective in like May. And I got to know like a lot of photographers in that collective like really like more so than just kind of in the space. And also in like chat groups. And it being in spaces is important too. But like that's like, so time consuming. And I often will try to do that and then work at the same time. And it kind of doesn't really work because I don't pay attention to the space. And I don't pay attention to my work. But I have done that I tried to be doing that like many times, but so it was kind of a little bit frustrating. But it was basically just another thing. That was important. When I first started entering the space, like when I was a beginner, I felt like lost. And I kind of like dug around and found information even just what like Good morning means and friends. And like all this kind of like lingo that people used. I kind of had to figure out on my own and I could ask people but nobody offered, no one came up and say, Oh, you're new here, like, let me help you. And the thing is, like once I was kind of got used to it and learned it myself, I actually when new people would come in the space, I would actually help them. And I discovered I really liked doing that. And, and I kept doing it. And that's how it was like kind of I mean, I don't know when you entered the NFT world on Twitter, but like, it was kind of so many people and just kind of wild in like November, December, January, February. Yeah. Last year, beginning of this year, so, but yeah, 100 So that wasn't necessarily I learned that I learned that I really I enjoyed helping people, it made me feel like I had a purpose because I'm kind of some sometimes I'm struggling with that, like feeling like kind of having a strong purpose in life. 38:37   Cool, thanks a lot for sharing that. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, that's, that's really cool, you know, just trying to figure it out. And I know, NFT is really difficult space to get into a lot of people, it's a difficult concept to learn and to understand as well. So, you know, you figuring it out and to helping the people who can jump in there and onboarding, I think that's a really cool thing to do. Yeah, you know, thanks a lot for doing that because that's really helps open up the world. NFT now, we starting to get into the NFT world here and you know, the listeners out there might have heard of it might not have heard of it. But there are a lot of scepticism behind the NFT right. Is it real? Is it a scam? Like what is this? So I'm quite interesting interested to hear what who you are into the NFT world and what do you think about NFT? 39:39   Well, I'm glad you asked me that question because what pulled me into it like when I entered this went on I found this little community I found the community on Twitter what pulled me in was in like to hear these like success stories. That is what pulled me in. And I was like I want to be part of this because I want to be part of some One thing that is going to change this because I really felt like I wanted it to change, it just seemed unfair. And, and so just, it was basically people's stories that and I was just excited, like I, I saw a lot of, there's a lot of astrophotography that I saw in the very beginning, like the Milky Way photography, and I was just like, so wild by that. And I was like, ah, you know, and I kind of was just seeing everyone's beautiful work, it's just kind of was exciting. And there was like this kind of, I mean, I as since we're in a bear market, as you know, like, it's not the same anymore, but, but there's people still excited about it. And, and still excited about photography, because I mean, you can't just put photography only in NF T's I mean, I actually made some some money, like a hell of a lot more than I did whatever I was, you know, from stock photography. So I mean, that's like, kind of, and it also inspired me to try new things like I got a drone this summer, and I flew my drone in Iceland, and I actually really love love that. And I really want to explore that. And I also, I photographed the Milky Way for the first time, this like summer also. And I still haven't processed it. I mean, I kind of started but I kind of felt like a little bit lost. So I, but I'll see, you know how it goes and then figure out how to do it properly. But it was a crater lake. 41:33   Beautiful. Alright, to lations on your first meal QA will go on. I mean, I'm an astro photographer, and I teach Astro photography as well. So when whenever people say I just take my first Astro photography, I got really excited. But how is that experience? I know he kind of I'll bring it back to NFT. But I just don't know, how is that experience being able to capture the Milky Way for the very first time? 42:00   Well, what was interesting is like when I we, I've seen, of course, I've seen the Milky Way, but not actually not I've not been in situations where I've seen it that often. And so I have this memory of it, but I didn't photograph it. And it looks. It was a beautiful night, very clear at Crater Lake. But it's not as distinct as it is in the photos. It's kind of like the roar Borealis, it's the same like you can see it with your eye, but it's not. And I did see that in Iceland on two different trips and photographed that. And it looks it's more dramatic whenever you actually photograph it than it is when you actually just look at it. And so that's how I feel like it is with like the Milky Way photos. And I actually met somebody that I met off Twitter. And we actually photographed together because she was travelling to Crater Lake. And she mentioned it and she's actually experienced with it's r1 I don't know if you know r1 But like, yeah, so she, I kind of learned like a bit from her kind of watching what what she did also, so but I do want to try it again. But it is feel like that it's it's it's rather complicated. Just I think the postprocessing even more than the shooting part. But if it wasn't for her like so it was kind of amazing. But it was also like really uncomfortable, because it was a wind picked up. And it was like really freezing. There was still snow. It was June but there was still snow, where we were and it wasn't cold actually like temperature wise where we were at the parking lot. But when we went to the area where we needed to shoot it from, it was just the wind picked up and it was just like freezing. So it was kind of my first experience was like kind of uncomfortable physically, because then you have to keep waiting and like doing these really long exposures. So and she did really super long, she did some that were like five minutes disabused, like these ones that were super long. And then, you know, shooting like, several photos to later piece together as a panorama. 44:21   Panorama. Yeah, that's really cool. It's actually not complicated at all. And I could you know, once you know, the ins and outs, it's not complicated at all. And, you know, that's, that's why I teach the astrophotography because a lot of people are thinking it's complicated, but it's actually pretty simple once you know the step by step process. So yeah, we can, you know, if you have time, I'm happy or you know, we can do it some other time. I'm happy to help you with the post processing or whatever question you have. Sorry, I just got excited. That 44:58   is exciting. I wanted to I didn't, I was interested in that and wanted to, like, try to do it myself. So I guess that kind of like makes me feel like, okay, I should make go back and try to process those photos that I that I took, I can't 45:12   wait to see it, I can't wait to see, it will be great. So when you get into the coming back to the NFT, right? You got there because you felt like there are more value to your photography, instead of people paying three cents for your photograph, you actually get something that worthwhile, right, something of value. And we know that money is important. But as an artist, I think there's something more important behind that the fact that our art is being valued for what it is, it doesn't matter what genre it is. And that was, you know, how I felt. Now, when you when you come into the NFT world, and you know, what we have right now? Do you have? How does your expectation, you know, or you know, what you imagine it to be versus the reality, what was some of the goods and Bad's within the space that we need to improve upon, you know, because we want to bring more people in this space, but there's so many, I suppose, scepticism negative talk around it. So, I'd like to hear a little bit from your perspective, especially working from one of the platform, right, you will get a lot of exposure to this, in terms of, you know, people saying this or that and, you know, different people opinion, what are some of the things that you see are a good point, and they are some of the things that we could improve upon in this space? 46:43   Well, I mean, What initially attracted me to it was also that like, there's a problem with a caste Samar addressed this in one of her early NF T's where she liked the Hawaii photo where she released that because people kept stealing it, you know, because, as a photo researcher, a lot of times authors of textbooks think, and I think just people in general, they think that because something on the internet, like you can just use it like, oh, yeah, it's like everywhere, like, you know, but I mean, that's not true. I mean, there's like, you know, you have to get permission to use it, unless the person specifically says that anybody can use it. And, and so people will just steal things off the internet, and just use them as they wish. And so, I mean, she sold that NFT for like, I don't know, like 100 Aetherium. I don't know what that would have been at the time, like a huge amount of money. Like, I don't know, like $300,000 or something like that. But she released it to the world that anybody could use it, although she wanted to be credited. And I kind of was really, like, inspired by that. I was actually very inspired by her because I heard her story, I watched a video of how she came into the NFT world, and, and how she had no work because of COVID because of like, she wasn't able to do like the photography workshops. So I think just kind of like solidifying ownership, like saying, okay, like it's kind of like this mark like this is I am the creator of this piece of digital art, like, you know, I think that is good about NF Ts. And also, I think in the future too, like, if you purchase when I first started in selling NF Ts, I was selling photos, my first things I sold photos of were went redwood forest, and if someone bought an NF t then I would donate money to save the redwoods organisation. And that is I see someone recently that has, like there's other and other other people that have fundraisers where if you purchase an NF t like 100% of it will go to like as a donation. I mean, you can just ask for donations but I mean it's actually common if you do donation sometimes if you do some donations to something you can times get like a physical product or some kind of product in return for that like as a thank you and NF Ts can be also used for something like that. And I think that there in the future there can be a lot of various uses for it not just for art and I am not very involved in the kind of like the profile picture you know, like the apes and punks and all that like I I'm not really involved in that so I don't really have much knowledge about about that aspect of it. And I think that's what most people who aren't involved in it that's what they think about because that's what's like in the in the media because those are the ones that are have gotten, you know, for so much money and people hear about so that's what they think NF T's are that they're only that. Yeah, that's a really good 49:59   point. You know, I saw, I know what you're talking about with Cassie Mart, early campaign, and it was I think it was one of her. I think one of the biggest one that she had I know she, you know, she had a crazy sales even before that. I mean, she said she's phenomenal photographer, and just so inspiring. But yeah, for the listener who kind of don't know, the context, basically, that Hawaii photo has been stolen over and over again, where it's been reposted, and been used as a licence item without her getting paid. And she would show this crazy list of, you know, disputes against them. And, you know, at the end of the day, she say, put that as an NFT. And she got, probably, you know, all her all the worth of that whole photo over the lifetime of it and even more, right, and I think that's, that's so empowering, that is just so empowering to the artists, you know, the fact that we need to share our photograph out there, but most of the time, when we share our photographs in the internet, it would get stolen. And nothing is solved some of that problem. I know, it's not 100% there yet, but we're still early. And like you say, you know, with the donations and charities, you know, I see going forward where we, you know, it all just happens seamlessly through the smart contract without people being there. And that kind of cow cut a lot of corruption. And, you know, basically people stealing away from it, because it goes directly to the people. Of course, at the end of the day, you know, people aren't one behind it. So there's always a chance, but it cut a lot of that down. So that's, that's what's really cool about it. And I love that you brought that up. Well, thank you very much for being here in person. And it's, it's great to have the conversation with you, you know, hearing your photography journey, also, how you got into the NFT. And a little bit about the NF t as well. Now, one thing that I always ask my guests on every single podcast is that if there is an advice, one advice, whether it's a life advice, photography, advice, whatever advice, it could be, that you could tell either your younger self or someone else in the space in the social media in your community, what would that advice be? 52:30   Well, I would say to myself and others also is, well, I wish I would have taken more risk in trying to pursue photography. Now not just as like, say, like an artist, but as kind of like my dream, kind of National Geographic photographer. I mean, not specifically just for National Geographic, but that style of story, like kind of a photo story, but just just doing basically not settling for just any job. And just because it was more secure. You know, I mean, I guess I was actually lucky that I had a job that was related to photography. And and now with silica that's still my textbook job is not really is related to photography anymore. It's project management. But it used to be more photography and photography was involved in it. So, but I feel like I wish I and it's not like I'm still around. So I mean, I can still change. And I have been inspired recently by all of the, you know, like the Twitter photography community, I feel inspired to try new things. I'm actually interested in trying like more like I always have done very realistic photography, and I actually want to try kind of changing things. I mean, it's just art then I mean, I mean, it's art, it's photography and art, like digital art combined, or even even learning even learning like 3d. If I can, I don't know, just to kind of experiment with things. Because I always was like shooting something as it was real, very real. That's how I've always like, done it. But yeah, I think like, at least try try more. I mean, try. Take, I mean, not unreasonable risks, but I feel like I wish I would have taken more risks in trying to pursue like my dream career. 54:24   Fantastic. That's such a great advice. I know how that feel. And you know, I've been there I used to be an engineer and you know, literally drop everything to become a photographer. So I know exactly how that feel and seems like you're in that journey. And I know a lot of other people who are in the journey as well, to get there. And like you say, right, it's it's important to, to get out of to get out of your comfort zone and to change to do something that makes you happy. Whatever it is. I think that is our big purpose in life so thank you very much for sharing that advice. That is so beautiful. Now for the listeners out there who I know that you have an NFT project on Slaker as well like a collection there and you know you have beautiful photograph as well. So for the people who and listeners who want to see more of your work who want to get in touch with you and connect with you, what would be the best way to connect with you? 55:30   Um, I would say probably like on Twitter or like my website like I have a website, wander wander less photos.com And so I can be contacted through my website or on Twitter or Instagram like any of those or Facebook even, like all the usual places 55:51   fantastic. Yeah, we'll include that in in the description below. So if you want to check out more of her work, you know, she what, what she's doing in any of these spaces as well as in a photography space, and all this beautiful photograph or from her travel, you know, I encourage you to give her a visit and say hi in social media. But thank you very much for being here. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. I enjoyed you know, having that conversation and listening to your to your journey. I really do appreciate having you in the podcast.  

Hey Wicked Hunters! So excited to introduce the 50th episode!  Today I will be talking with Paul Zizka - our first guest who became part of The Art of Photography Podcast.  Paul Zizka is a passionate explorer who shares his journey through his art and photography.  He uses his journey to create a positive impact by inspiring and helping other photographers who are looking to follow his journey, as well as spread awareness.  If you want to get to know more about Paul Zizka, you can listen to the first interview on - https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com/e/ep2-with-paulzizka/  Today we will ask Paul Zizka how he use photography to create positive impact and chat about his upcoming project The Cryophilia You can get involved and learn more about the project on: https://www.zizka.ca/cryophilia  ------------------- For those of you who want to check out Paul's photos, you can find him on: www.zizka.ca https://www.instagram.com/paulzizkaphoto/ https://www.facebook.com/paulzizkaphoto/ Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr    For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe --------- Transcription: Paul Zizka  0:00   really the goal is is to raise awareness of how quickly those places are changing, and how beautiful they are. And I feel like we hear a lot about the vanishing ice and the rapidly receding glaciers. Over the last few years we've seen some glaciers lose 100 200 metres in one year. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:30   Hey, wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artist journey and show how photography given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, I'm very excited to have someone who is in the very first episode of this podcast, and I want to have him back because there's a few different things that he has in the horizon, as well as you know, Canadian Rockies in its prime season for wild skating. And I think Paul's is is one of the best capturing those so I really want to chat to him about it. I've met Paul's has got back into Rockies. And it's been such a pleasure to not only follow his journey, his adventure, but also to learn from him about the creative process about how to give back to the community and about how to help other photographers. So I'm sure you will get a lot of benefit from today. Well, without further ado, Paul, how's it going? Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast. Paul Zizka  1:34   Thanks so much, Stanley. It's great to be back. I guess I did okay, the first time around, because you're you're having me over again. Always a pleasure chatting with you and connecting with your community. So I'm excited to be here. Thank you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:48   Oh, fantastic. Yeah, I mean, like, it's so much has been going on right? Or we had, we had a pandemic and we had everything that's going on and travelling is opening again. But before we started for the listener who haven't really hear about about you and your journey, just give us a quick you know, cliff note because I know that we the first podcast, talk a lot about who you are and stuff like that. But just give us a little bit you know, a cliff note about who you are so that if they don't if they want to hear more about you, they can go to the first podcast, Paul Zizka  2:23   for sure. I am a outdoor photographer based out of Banff in the Canadian Rockies and I shoot pretty much anything outside. I'm interested in Adventure photography, Astro photography, travel photography, landscape photography. Yeah, wildlife, anything outside. Works for me. And yeah, I've been doing photography full time for gosh, I guess over 12 years now probably and there's nothing else I'd rather do. And yeah, it's that's sort of the gist of it. That's, that's where I'm at in my journey. Yeah, if anybody has any questions, they're welcome to reach out or check out that first episode. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:03   100% Yeah, look, you know, when I first moved to Canadian, Rocky, so let's just starstruck with your with your photograph, right? Because I feel like your photograph is, it's like no other, you know, I haven't seen that kind of style, the way you use human element in through your, your, through your adventures, you know, through the ice, the winter, the summer, as well as when you go out through hiking and stuff like that. So when you create this image, what is your thought process? You know, what is your creative process that make you come up with all of these images? Because, like I say, it's not something that's very common, I could say, you know, when I see a photo gets shared on Nat, Geo, or, you know, some of the Rockies account, I know exactly, that's your photo, because, yeah, no one else have that sort of concept. So how do you create this sort of what's your thought process to create this inspiring photograph? Paul Zizka  4:06   That's a good question, Stanley, I think part of it comes down to, to me there's, for me, there's two ways to approach photography, you can approach photography more from a spontaneous with a more spontaneous approach. Or you can plan things out and pre visualise images and stage things out if you will, a little bit more. So I think, a lot of the photos that, I guess people just have ended up associating me with or maybe at the pre visualised end of the spectrum where an idea will come up in the field, maybe even while I might be at a location with the family in the daytime, and then something will sort of pop in my mind's eye and I'd be cool to come back at that time of year at night with a certain person Doing this doing that when conditions align for a specific type of image, and then sort of make a, make a wish list of everything that needs to happen and then wait for the conditions to come together, arrange the logistics and then go create that image and image that would not be possible to create in a spontaneous fashion, because you're just not going to go to a place like that at that time and found some find someone doing that certain thing in that exact spot. So some of those images that are more like, Can, that are constructed well ahead of time, require a different approach than those images where you know, you go to a beautiful place at a time of day where you know, the light is likely to be nice, and you don't really know what you're going to come up with, which I think is most different. The approach that most photographers most outdoor photographers go with is the sort of tried to align a whole bunch of ingredients that are likely to yield really cool opportunities, but they don't really know what they're going for when they sat out that morning. And I liked that approach to it, I try to bounce from one to the other, because I find that they really tap into different parts of their creativity. So I'll go, I'll go and create more of the spontaneous end of the spectrum for a few outings. And then I'll feel the need to sort of plan something out, dream up an image that wouldn't happen spontaneously, and then try to make it happen. And it just bounced back and forth. And that's sort of been the process for me for gosh, over a decade now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:36   So where does all of this inspire inspiration come from? Because you know, some some of your photograph. I know what you mean, with, you know, waiting for the right moment. I mean, one of the photo that we use for the thumbnail for the podcast was ice climbing on this beautiful thing. It was a glacier. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a glacier and Aurora right behind it. And, you know, like, like, you say that things like that is very difficult to come by. Right. So where does the inspiration come from? You know, you kind of share that, okay, well, maybe you're going on an adventure. And then you go to this place, and like, things kind of pop up here and there, right? It's like, Oh, that'd be cool to do this, and that, and this and that. But where does the inspiration come from? Because I know there are a lot of photographers out there a lot of listeners who are, you know, like, well, it's really easy for you to say, but I could never think of it that way. So yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit where the inspiration come from. Paul Zizka  7:39   For sure, I think it comes from just wanting to keep photography fun, and interesting, especially if you've been doing it for a relatively long time. I just get bored doing the same thing over and over again, frankly, and so I feel like I need to. And that's purely for myself, that's, you know, what the audience may or may not like the result, but just purely for myself, I find that I just get I just lose interest, repeating the same ideas, and I'm sure fellow photographers will relate eventually it becomes it's easy to get a little bit robotic with photography and sort of start microwaving the same ideas over and over again. And then it's just, yeah, then you don't get anywhere on your journey as a photographer, because you're not, you're always staying within the realm of what's comfortable. So I think those ideas come out of just wanting to keep photography fun and interesting. And, and just to go out there and try to play around with some new ideas. And sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work, but I find that for me, it's the only way to keep photography sustainable is to really just get away from what's familiar at least once in a while. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:06   Yeah, no, that's, that's a great advice. You know, just keep it interesting, keep it fun, keep it you know, dynamic, and we definitely can see on your photography, because you live there year in year out, but every year you keep coming up with this new photograph, you know, with a different concept from the same place, right. And one thing that I was wondering was like, you know, when people can go to that process and you know, try to think about a different way to create different images and when, you know, to have that condition or line up, it's very difficult to come by, right. So, how do you like I'm just wondering, like, how do you go after that moment, because I know a moment like that, you know, it can be difficult Um, do you just like, drop everything when that moment come? Or, you know, cuz life happens, right life happens, everything's, you know, it's, it would be nice if all we we have in our life is just adventure and we can go anytime anywhere whenever we want but that's not that's not the reality. So how do you make things happen when a rare condition, you know, like the Aurora lining up with the composition that you want or the frozen lake at a certain point, you know, at a critical point before the snow up full on it and ruin the whole surface. How do you chase after this Paul Zizka  10:43   moment? I would say yeah, you looking at social media, you you'd be, you know, I can see how people think you're looking at each other's accounts that everyone's always in a position where they can drop everything and go, it's just not true. I'm sure for myself and other people, I've got a wife, two little girls and, you know, other life commitments, and I'm just not able to chase absolutely everything that I would ideally Chase. But I think I'm very, very fortunate that my wife is very, very supportive of what I do. And so, and she understands that some of the conditions rely on phenomena that are fickle, right that you don't, you can't really plan a couple of weeks ahead with wild ISO rora, or things like that, that are time sensitive, and that are hard to read and are very, very dynamic. And so I've been very fortunate that ever since I began in this field that my wife has encouraged me to just drop everything and go, at least, you know, within the realm of what's reasonable. If conditions align for an image that I'm excited about, and I'm home, and I'm able to rearrange the schedule, or you know, or we just take a rain check on something we had planned and do it the next day instead, then it's I've had the flexibility to do that. And I think for Yeah, I think, you know, just to expand on that, I think for anyone who's in a relationship and wants to really pursue photography seriously. I mean, we're talking about the ingredients that make that possible. And I think one of the ingredients that is sort of that's not talked about enough, is just having support from your, from your friends, from your family to just go out there and get after it. When, when things are when the timing works out. So I've been I've had an amazing Circle of Support since the beginning. And that's been huge for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:01   No, that's yeah, that's, that's a really good point, you know, being able to find people that support you in your journey. And, yeah, I'm glad that you're able to do that. Because you know, some of your photos just absolutely incredible. Like, you know, people can look at it and just think, how do you even like, know, that's gonna have it, you know, and share, you know, there is a lot of uncertainties goes with it as well. But you take that chance you go out there anyway. And, you know, you get rewarded by this, this beautiful phenomenons, one way or another. So and Paul Zizka  13:35   I think Stanley just just to add one thing to that, I think a lot of it comes with being very familiar with the playground that you operate in, right, like because I get, you know, when I travel, I get what I can, I don't know how to read the desert, or the ocean, the way that I know how to read the Rockies, having lived here for 15 plus years and having kept a close eye on why do these things happen? What set of conditions lead to those phenomena to happen, and being able to just anticipate a little bit, whereas I get totally thrown off an environment that I'm not familiar with. So I think a lot of it comes down to really knowing your subject. Really, really try to get to know your subject as best as you can. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:25   Yeah, no, that's a really good point. You know, I, I learned a lot from you. And when I met you in chat about the condition in the Rockies, and that really helped me to kind of predict and understand what what could happen and what, what when to go and you know when to wait. So I think that's really good advice. Now, you know, it's been, gosh, I don't think we're about two years I think about a year and a half to two years since I have you last in the podcast. So I know you have some project coming up. I know that travel open up again. So What exciting project, I know what it is. But you know, I just wanted to introduce it, what exciting project have you got into horizon at the moment, Paul Zizka  15:09   for sure my big project is going to be a project that spans several years. So I'm going like, I'm diving really headfirst into this. It's called cryo failure, which means an affinity for cold places, which I've always had. But and I've always been drawn to shooting ice and snow and the high latitudes and cold places in winter. But now I'm going to do that with quite a bit more effort and intention, and and really, really target that part. That field of photography. And really, there's two purposes to the project. One of them is to document how dynamic those places are speaking more specifically about glacier. So I'm fortunate that I live within, you know, you've lived here, so I live with him, if I left the house. Now, within a couple hours, I can be at five different glaciers, looking at how they change how they've changed since last time, marvelling at the features that are on display that are always always different. So one of the purposes is documenting the changes in the ISE, both locally and abroad as well. And the other purpose is to document just purely the aesthetics, the incredible beauty of those rapidly changing places that are glaciated areas. So that's a project that in a way I started many, many years ago, but now I'm really that's got a lot more purpose to it now a lot more direction. And the idea is that it would culminate in a book and an exhibit, maybe three or four years down the road, a lot of the details remain to be determined. But for now, really the goal is is to raise awareness of how quickly those places are changing, and how beautiful they are. And I feel like we hear a lot about the vanishing ice and the rapidly receding glaciers. And a lot of people have a scientific approach to how they demonstrate that and I think that's wonderful. But I'm not going to pretend I'm a scientist, I'm an artist, and I think I can contribute, the best way that I can contribute to the conversation is really showcasing the changes, and the aesthetics of those absolutely incredible places. So that's where I really want to focus. Let other people do the talk around the science. And I've got unfortunate, I spent a lot of a lot of time close to that ice on that ice on the side under that ice. And so that's where I can bring something new to the conversation. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:54   Yeah, I think that's really great. You know, I love I love the cause behind it. And for, you know, for someone like me who never been who never live in winter places like Canadian Rockies until I was there, it was a big eye opening, right? The fact that glaciers doesn't usually lasts more than a year that usually, by the time the summer comes, it gets too warm, and most most likely it's gonna crumble, the fact that the glacier actually receding, and I think you told me about 1510 to 15 metre a year, you know, that's just mind blowing, right. And for most people who are living in tropical country, for example, or in, in Australia, where there is no direct access and see the to see this, we don't feel the climate change as much, right. But when it comes to ice, you know, zero, I stay in tech, one degree, it started to melt, all it takes is just one degree difference to melt the ice. So I love the project that you're doing. And I think I think it's really cool to be able to show that because, yes, the scientific approach is great, but a lot of people are visual. Right. So just being able to show that and see the difference. I think that can tell a lot tell the story, a lot of story behind that. Now. Paul Zizka  19:27   I think also just to add one thing to that Stanley, I think, you know, there's there's a lot of fatigue that I think there's a lot of fatigue with the scientific argument right now right like people whether we like it or not, I think people are tired to have numbers thrown at them. And and sometimes I find that where where other methods can fail perhaps to reach people photography, because it's so visual can really be The help people connect with an environment or a cause. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like that's why I feel like I'm so I'm so drawn to showcasing those places for people. And we're, you know, and in a way, it's almost like, as someone who lives, whereas a camera and lives really close to those places, it sort of feels that I owe it to the rest of the world to go out and document those places. And the changes are been astonishing, like we are seeing. Over the last few years, we've seen some glaciers lose 100 200 metres in one year. So we're talking about changes that are happening like on human timescales, we're not talking about stuff that happens over hundreds or millions of years this, you can go to the Athabasca glacier, the dome glacier, from one year to another, it'll feel like a completely different place. It's happening very, very quickly here in the Rockies. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:02   Yeah, no, that's, that's really sad. And I absolutely agree with you, you know, like, we often say, seeing is believing and you know, sometimes having the number of backing up with you know, the photo can really make a big difference. And hopefully, more people are aware about this. Now, I find it interesting, right? And then we kind of you know, have a chat about this before the podcast, but people like war, people go to Bali because they enjoy the warm the tropical but you chase after the winter, you know, the ice skates when the wild skate? So where does that passion come from? Do you actually enjoy the winter? Or is it do you like to go out there? Because it's just so beautiful. It's is there one or the other? Or is it does it complemental Paul Zizka  21:57   I do really like winter. Frankly, I find it's a little bit long here in the Rockies. Like I find that I absolutely love November, December, January. By the time you know, when April rolls around, and you're still getting snowed on, I start to look forward to summer adventures, to be totally honest with you. But I find that winter just brings along with it so many elements of magic, like, like the ice to snow. Just I love the silence of winter. So it's not just not just the visual appeal of winter, but I love the silence just there's less people here in the park. For one, you can go to those iconic locations and have a more more of a solitary experience. But also, a lot of the sounds are muffled in the winter, you just go out on a windless day in the winter and just sit there and you can literally hear the silence, right you don't hear anything at all. And that's not something that's possible in the summer. I find that the landscape is all is simplified, it's a lot more there's a lot less clutter. And so I think like photography photographically I think that makes for a very different experience than does the summer. And so I think winter has so so much to offer. Being able to shoot stars at 5pm is pretty awesome not having to wait till midnight as an astro photographer is quite nice. And yeah, I love the winter activities. I love documenting people enjoying winter whether it's on skis or ice climbing or on skates and so yeah, there's there's so much that appeals to me about the winter especially here in the mountains and then I would just gladly swap one month of winter for an extra month of summer but for the most part I'm a big winter lover for sure Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:59   yeah no that's you know when like you said the winter just bring the magic in in Canadian Rockies and you know the snow the snow tops it just makes it absolutely different right now I know that you you like to wander you like to explore you like to look for new places and you know from what you say it's what keeps things interesting because you keep looking for the new thing keep things dynamic. Now when it comes to winter it's you know the atmosphere especially in Canadian Rockies can become very extreme and and yet you from time to time again you would go you know solo exploring these things now, just take us through like what goes into your head and what you know what what makes you want to go out there during this extreme conditions. Paul Zizka  24:54   I find that a lot of the magic in photography happens on the edge of extreme conditions sometimes right in the middle of extreme conditions, but typically on the edge of weather systems on the edge of those nasty periods of weather is when you'll find the unusual in the landscape where I, especially if you go to places that you've been to hundreds of times. I mean, as I'm sure you know, and you have those places that all your listeners have those places close to where they live, you know that you can show up at a place that you've shot three 400 times, and you feel like unless Mother Nature gives you a little something to work with, you're kind of out of ideas, like you feel like you've, you've experimented, you've done it all, you've shot it from a variety of perspectives. So then I find that you're kind of maybe in a way forced to rely on the weather a little bit and go out in dynamic weather, basically. So I find for me in the winter, it's not, it's not hard to find dynamic weather in the Rockies, you see it coming three, four days ahead of time in the forecast, and you can plan around it and rearrange the schedule. And so much of the magic happens when yeah, there's this front moving and or front has just moved out and or the winds are high. And that's when you can go to those iconic locations and see them in a way you've never seen them before. And so I feel very much compelled to go out when the weather is, you know, a little bit more harsh, I suppose. But now that the gear is so good, both the photo gear, the clothing, the apparel, there's no really reason to not be comfortable out there, there's a way that you can shoot and pretty much any kind of condition in relative comfort if you're prepared. And if you have the proper gear. And so I find that less and less as photographers, we can use weather as an excuse to really to not go out there and try to catch the the the edge of that those weather systems. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:00   Yeah, no, that's I 100%. You know, when you it's important to have the right gear because it can make or break the experience. And yeah, I love I love, you know how you share that, that passion of yours and pushing, you know, the comfort zone, because, like you say that's, that's when things can happen, and interesting things happen. So, you know, hopefully the listeners are out there are, you know, taking notes, you want to create something unique, go out there when no one else goes out there. So that's incredible. Now Paul Zizka  27:35   you're sure it's been, I think it's you know, it's something that you hear all the time in photography circles, right, get out of your comfort zone and get out and it starts to get repetitive, of course, but I don't know how else to put it. I mean, it's so it's so important. And I think especially in the age of social media, where it's very, very easy to go and recreate similar images over and over again, that will automatically please a large audience. But for you as a photographer, they don't really get you anywhere, because you can shoot them with your eyes closed pretty much, right? They're very comfortable to you. And, you know, these are the settings and this is the composition and I go to a beautiful place at sunrise and I can shoot something that will, you know, gather mass appeal for sure. But I think you can't keep photography sustainable that way, you have to just please yourself first. And I don't know how you can please yourself first, if you just repeat the same ideas. I mean, everybody goes through a period of just learning and perfecting their technique and emulating the work of other people. And I think that's totally normal, as on your journey as a photographer, but eventually I find that everybody will hit that wall sooner or later, where photography just gets boring if you keep doing the same things over and over again, it's the same in all aspects of life. It just gets monotone after a while. So I think just if only purely for yourself, eventually you just have to find ways to innovate. And that just requires trying new things and getting away from what comes easy to you know, that's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:15   100% you know, true and it's interesting that you say that because I feel like for you know photographers who are already in it for a long time, that phrase get repeated a lot, right, create something different, create something new. Go outside of your comfort zone, but when I first started photography, I wish I had listened to you know what you just said because I never heard that phrase. You know? It's it's so common that people go like you say the immolation is it's more popular where people just go to the popular places right take and a popular time so that they get that popular plate shot and get that one They call it adoption from from the social media user, right? But over time, I think people that's, that's when people can start to realise. So honestly, when I first started photography, I wish I had heard that a lot sooner. So it's really good that you mentioned that, you know, hopefully, listeners out there who are in their photography journey can take inspiration from that. Now, when it comes to, you know, your project, cryo Philia, and you have been to a lot of different places, you know, Canadian Rockies being the most predominant, but also Greenland, Nepal, Iceland, Antarctica, is there any place any, any, any favourite place, or any favourite moment from dos adventure that, you know, if I were to ask you, you know, what was the top, you know, experience from all of these places? Is there any one experience that literally just pop up your head? And yes, this was it? And if there was one, what is it? Paul Zizka  31:14   There's a clear destination that comes to mind for sure. And that would be Greenland hands down. I, I've always said, you know, if you forced me to move outside of Canada, that's where you'll find me in Greenland somewhere. My I don't know if my wife would be very happy to relocate to Greenland. But as far as photography goes, for me, it's the ultimate playground and it's the the landscape is just vast and wild. And the sense of freedom that you get wandering around Greenland is just incredible. There's so so much to offer to the artist. It's very powerful magnetic plays just like the Rockies and is becoming more and more popular for a reason there's nowhere else like it that I know of. It's it's reunites a lot of the elements that I find the most exhilarating to shoot in photography, like ice and Aurora. And so for me, it's it's really a place that I'm just so thankful, whenever I get to just set foot on Greenland and walk around a little bit and document that place. It's next level for me, I've had many of my most memorable experience of photography have happened in Greenland. With the icebergs on the glaciers on the ice sheet, or under under Northern Lights, the people are wonderful as well. I love the cultural the cultural aspect of Greenland I love how people make a go of it in one of the world's most inhospitable places. And so yeah, for me, I think it's the clear, the clear, standout location as far as where I've been outside the Rockies is clearly Greenland, just phenomenal. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:59   Wow, ya know, 100% You know, when I see your photo, and, you know, when, when you tell me about, you know, what, what, where to go and what to look for in Greenland. It become top of my bucket list ago, so 100%, you know, it's just so beautiful. Now, something interesting that you mentioned earlier, you know, like, you love Greenland, for one of the reasons why you love Greenland is the playground for photography, you know, the different dynamic, different ingredients, I suppose, that you could find from that place. Now, when you look for destinations, or adventures or places to go? What is your main driver that makes you want to go to those certain place? Is it mainly driven by photography? or is there other experiences that you look for from this different destinations? Paul Zizka  33:54   I look, I think for the wilderness first and foremost, Isla, I looked for places that yeah, that offer a lot of space. And a lot of, you know, they're pretty low density in terms of population, and so that the main thing that I look for is just nature really. And so that's the reason that I went to Greenland in the first place, and, you know, Mongolia and those other parts of the world where very, very few people live. And then so that's first and foremost, secondly, would be Yeah, of course, as a photographer, I think just the aesthetic aspect. What what is there? There's always something went wherever you have nature, there's something wonderful to shoot. I'm very much drawn to the high latitudes and really big empty places I like I like emptiness and remoteness. And I think so those are other things that I look for in destinations. Especially now you know that the world is reopening to travel, maybe try to get into those places that have such that are so so special that it's only a matter of time before they become a little bit more mainstream. So while I still have that sense of adventure, and an ability, trying to get to those places that require maybe a bit more physical effort to get into. So that's another aspect that I look at as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:34   Great question really interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting. And I would have thought ice was gonna be on the top of a bucket on top of that list. Paul Zizka  35:44   Well, you know, what, I think what tends to happen is the places that reunite all of those factors tend to be the high latitudes, right, where not a lot of people live that are wild, that are beautiful, that are hard to get to. There's, there's there's some that are, you know, what, that in other parts of the world, but a lot of high latitude locations, meet all those criteria, which is why you'll find me often at the high latitudes. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:14   No, that's, that's really interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Right. You know, I think one of the inspiration for me to go to more difficult places in the Rockies was that principle, you know, when you when you kind of say like, well, you know, like Rockies have everything, you know, if it's too busy, just go further and higher, and you got less and less people as you get further into it. And I love that, you know, because, I mean, there are time for everything, or the time where you just want to have that the sidewalk, car parks or a spot and just, you know, enjoy just being out there. And there are times where you want to feel that sense of adventure, and you don't want to be, you know, feel go to a place that filled with millions and millions people. And actually, it's, yeah, it's one of the things that I miss about rock is because here in Indonesia, even you know, the highest the higher mountains or volcanoes is pretty accessible that we still line you know, line up. It's like a traffic jam. So Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a bit crazy. Paul Zizka  37:21   Yeah. Yeah. It's, I think it's something that's easy to take for granted. For sure. I think and like you said, you know, I'm, I'm, I sound like all I do is stuff that gets me away from people and away from the road, but it's not true at all, you know, I love I love roadside photography, as well. And I don't always have a full day or multi days to commit to getting away from people. And so sometimes I'm very thankful that in a place like Banff National Park, even a habit, even if I have a two hour window to shoot, while I can go go out with Lake Louise with everybody else and still witness a scene that is really beautiful. And see what I can come up with with the camera. It's, it's like you said there, there is a time for everything. And it's just, it's, frankly, it's nice to not have to just, you know, drag all that stuff on your back for kilometres before you take a photo. It's nice to do a bit of a bit of both. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:20   Yeah. 100%. And, you know, I think it goes back to what you said earlier, it's about the dynamic, just keeping things fresh. Interesting, right? That's, that's really cool. Now, when it comes to a high latitude, and you know, like, all these black countries, places, extreme condition, you just mentioned that those are the ingredients to create something unique, like that's the biggest opportunity. Because sure, you can go to Lake Louise and find a crazy condition. I think one time I had like, a thunderstorm passing to that. And I was like, you know, incredible, but it's very difficult to find moments like that, right? So all of these new places that harder to get to harder condition give you a lot more opportunity. Now what are taking share with us some of your biggest challenges to go to some of those places and reach to those places and create a suppose a piece of art a photograph that, you know that that's not only a whiteout, you know, because sometimes when it's no, it's just a white up. So how do you how do you, you know, what are the challenges and how do you push past those challenges? Paul Zizka  39:35   That's a really good question. I think the main challenge one of the main challenges anyways, I think would just be time management, right? When you go out in those places, and you've got to look after yourself, you've got to maybe pitch the tent and cook and see the scene through the camera but also without the camera and so you may need to make sure you Go home with an experience as well as the photos. It's trying to constantly your brains on overdrive trying to constantly rearrange the schedule so that you can accomplish all of that and, and the more that we shoot, and I'm sure everybody here will relate, the more you shoot, the more you realise that good photography typically takes time, it takes commitment, you get lucky with an image on the fly once in a while, but most of the stronger images that we all have, the more that we shoot, they require us just committing that 1020 30 minutes plus to one shot if we're really excited about a possibility. So it's trying to find time for all that in the wilderness when the weather's not that great sometimes, that's that's the main challenge for me is trying to get really good at time management, and really trying to trying to really just assess every scene, every possibility in terms of the return of investment on investment, if you will, you know, like, this is a shot that does this shot, Warren 20 minutes of my time, it's a great shot, but at the same time, it would be worth it if it was like a one minute investment. But if it's 2030 minutes, then it doesn't really quite meet that ROI threshold that I've set for myself. So sort of trying to assess the scenes that way, you know, and then you find a shot that you're really, really excited about, that does warrant you know, 30 minutes. And sometimes there's a shot that, yeah, I'll put the pack down for one minute, it's not an amazing shot, prefer a one minute investment, it's worth shooting. So trying to always like, assess, assess the different scenes, different possibilities that way, I think is one of the main challenges for sure. And another challenge, the other main challenge I can think of I think is just and goes along with that is just being adaptable. I think the best photographers that I know are very, very adaptable photographers, they respond very quickly to the stimuli around them, they they are very quick at bailing on an idea. If it's not working out, if the conditions are not conducive to a certain image, they will quickly turn around and they won't just turn get tunnel vision into wasting 2030 minutes on an idea that's never going to happen. They are very, very quick thinking and they adapt to dynamic conditions, dynamic environments very, very well as, as we should. As photographers, we work with a subject that's ever changing, especially, you know, working in mountain environments in rapidly changing weather, it makes no sense to have to stick to one approach, you have to just keep adapting. So I think that's another one of the challenges out there. And I call it a challenge because sometimes I do very well at it, and sometimes not so much I get, I spent way too much time working on ideas that are never going to lead to anything in hindsight. And so I think being adaptable and managing your time properly, so that you can go home with the images, the experience and still, you know, look after your basic needs out there at the same time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:19   That is incredible. advices you know, I think I'd never heard them, you know, those points being being told that way. And the time management, especially I know, we kind of have that running in our mind when you're out there. But when you say it out loud, and when you you know, put it that way. I've become more conscious about about it now, you know, and I think that's a really great point. Thanks a lot for sharing that. Paul. It's, it's a great piece of advice. Now, you know, you you do a lot of workshop, right. And you've been taking photography for a long time, and you have a lot of thought, a thoughtful approach to photography. And I think that's why you, I feel that you are such a great mentor because of that. Now you have a few kind of like photography trips, you also do like a virtual mentoring, as well as, I think a mentorship that you just opened up as well. Now, I'm curious, you know, out of those whole thing, what are some of the different aspects that most photographers are missing in their in their photography journey that make a whole lot different to their photography? Paul Zizka  44:45   Oh, wow. That's an awesome question. And I think one of the in a way I think a lot of what and I think that comes down to like, it's the same. Same question as asking you know what, what What takes a photographer from like, Good to Great or photo from good to great? I'm not saying I'm not saying like, I'm great. And I've got it all figured out, but just looking at other people's work that surround me, the other people I shoot with. And I admire what takes them to the next level. And I always come back to the intangibles. And what I mean by that is like, everybody, sooner or later will have the math figured out behind photography, right? Like, this is what I do with, this is what I do with the shutter speed, the ISO, the aperture, eventually, that becomes second nature to everyone. Some people pick it up in one day and other people pick it up in five years. But eventually, you get that under control, you don't even think about it. In a way, same thing with the composition, composition, I think it's very mathematical. You know, it's it's the way that you rearrange the geometry and the shot. In a way it's not, it's not quite as sort of academic, or I suppose like, it's not, it's a bit more intuitive, I suppose, than the exposure triangle. But it's still kind of like something that becomes second nature a little bit after a while. What takes people to the next level, and what a lot of people are struggling with, I think, is commitment, and intention. And I think, by commitment, I mean, through doing mentorship, and workshops, I think a lot of people are just like, they really want to take a different geography to the next level, or they want to make a business out of it. But when you dig a little bit, you realise they're not that ready to make sacrifices. And I think it's like, that's like everything in life, you can't eventually you have to make sacrifices to move on to the next level. Once you know, all the math, once you know your camera inside and out, you know how to assess good light, good opportunities out there, I think and you have you have your vision, you even have your style of photography, I think eventually you have to make sacrifices, and you have to really commit you have to want it more badly than everybody else, I think, especially if you want to run a business, right? So I think that's something that's something that I find went through mentorship workshop that people are missing. The other thing is, intention is I think, just really working with purpose to tell your story as clearly as you can, knowing what you want to say with the camera. And being very intentional, working with a lot of direction, a lot of purpose and being very deliberate about about all the micro decisions that go into making a photograph. Why why do you do everything that you do? That leads to a photo, I think you look at the photographs that great photographers take. And you notice that the breathe a lot of intention, Oh, I see why he or she did that. That's clever. I love that they did this with a composition. I love that they chose those settings they chose to you know, use a filter or dis lands over a dat lands, everything is done for reason, I think and I love to see that in other people's photographs. And those are the harder things to teach. I think like as someone who does a lot of teaching and mentoring. It's not hard to show people the exposure triangle or even composition, those things can be taught but trying to get people to work with commitment and intention. That's the real challenge. I think as as someone who likes to teach, it's really, really trying to get people to work on those aspects, those more intangible aspects of photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:02   Wow, you elaborate that so eloquently. I love it. And I totally love it. It's very true. You know, it's, you know, I mean, people thing, like shooting manual is so hard. It's not like it's it's a three step process. You know, it's not that hard. And it's only up or down. You know, if one goes up, the other goes down. It's not that hard. And even a lot of how you say even the composition can be mathematical after a while can be rigid because there is a formula to it. But the thing that makes a big difference is that consideration, how do you mix between your gear and the settings and the composition and putting that together? And yeah, I love that perspective. And, man, that was that was a really, really great advice. Thanks a lot for sharing that poll. And, yeah, it's one of the reason why I want you back here. You know, you have a perspective that no one else has, you know, it's always it's always a big eye opener when I listen to you and your your advice and your, your wisdom. So that's really great. That's really great. See, I'm Paul Zizka  50:29   glad, I'm glad you can. I'm glad you connect with that. I figure, I figure you would, you know, I think I think a lot of people. And I see that in workshops, because people, I'll go over to someone hunched over a tripod and say, what are you working on and their settings are perfect. The composition is, could be very good. But they still feel like, they still feel like they're missing something, right. And sometimes it's hard to put your finger on it. And sometimes it's just, yeah, just just working with direction and intention and making sure that you're going home with the most compelling rendition of the story that you can get. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:19   Yeah, that's amazing. So you know, we're coming into the hour mark. And I know you have another commitment after this. So I want to try to keep it within the leaner the hour. Now, one last question that I have for you is, so for the listeners, you know, you this this advice that you just gave, I think that is one of the most important thing in photography right now. Like you say, it's really hard to get there, because it's not, it's not tangible. It's not, you know, there, there are no formula to it. So for the listeners out there for the photographers who feel like, okay, I got the composition, you know, I know my composition, I know, my techniques, my settings, I know my camera, I know my post processing, but it's just like, it's never Wow, it's just like, it's great. It's good, but it's not Wow. Right? So what advice would you give to those people? What sort of exercise? Or how can they approach photography differently, so that they can apply what you just, you know, what you just said earlier on your wisdom, to their photography. Paul Zizka  52:34   Two things, I think, look at the photography, look at a lot of photography and look at the photographs of people you admire, look at what they do. And instead of scrolling past 500 shots a day, when you see a shot that stops you in your tracks, just take like five minutes to really deconstruct it and think about why it makes you feel a certain way and why it's so impactful to you and why it works so well. And sometimes it takes a while to figure out what's going on behind the scenes and the mechanics of it. But once you're once you figure it out, then you get used to analysing images from other people. That way, I think you can get so much out of it. So once you see an image that you really, really like that you find is really powerful. Take time to stop and try to list out in your mind. What did they do that is just so cool. Try to put your finger on it on what's the wow factor? What's the the the intangible in that image, or the tangible could be the composition, a choice of settings. But what is it that makes that image so compelling. The other thing that I would highly recommend people do is just getting out with people that they may, that people get out with people that you admire, get get out with people whose work you respect. And see how they go about approaching a scene and just see even though you guys all went to the same location at the same time, just pay close attention to what they come up with when they post 510 days down the road. And just make a mental note. And I think that will really impact the way that you assess the scene, the next time you go out. And I'm not saying just start emulating your friends. But just like nobody works in a vacuum right pick and choose ingredients from other people's strategies that you really like to form your own sort of approach to photography. So get out with other people who see the world differently. We all have a different view of the world. We all work differently as artists and look at a lot of photography that you really like and instead of like hating like and moving on deconstruct Hawaii that day. Marriage works so well for you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:02   That is great advice. And I love how you say, you know, be you, you know, like, everyone is different. And you could use the same exact techniques, the same exam in the same exact shot. And I feel like, that's what makes your photography very unique, very different. Because, you know, you put a lot of you try a lot of this landscape photography, with your passion with hockey, for example, with wild eyes with your love for going to extreme temperature extreme places, looking for that unique, unique conditions. And that's, that's what makes it different. So I think that is such a great advice that you share there. And yeah, we're just very grateful to, you know, hear all of this wisdom from you. So, Paul, it's been a great, you know, having having you back here having another conversation with you. So, let us know a little bit. Where does cryo philia go from here and let the audience know, if they do want to find out about this project or about your workshop? What is the best way to get in touch? Paul Zizka  56:23   For sure, I think the website might be a good starting point is just my last name cisco.ca. Because then from there, you can quickly hop over to the cryo philia project, or you can check out the workshops, or the latest work, et cetera, you can have sort of everything in one place. Otherwise, we have separate social media accounts for the cryo philia project. So it's easy to find on Instagram and, and Facebook everywhere you would expect. Yeah, so I would say just hop on the website and take a look and see if you. Hopefully you like what you see. And yeah, I'm always you know, I'm easy to find online, always looking forward to connecting with fellow photographers. And really, Ron, we want to thank you, Stanley, for just the just the work that you put in preparing, I think, for these types of podcasts because they have, you know, the questions are always very thoughtful. And the conversations have always been great. So I'm really, really thankful for the experience. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:31   You are welcome. And a little bit, you know, behind the scene fact, I actually don't prepare a lot from this. I just been curious. Because, you know, being curious, make me ask this weird question that is interesting. Paul Zizka  57:48   Your back, I think that's a great skill to have as a, as an interviewer, I think is just seeing where the conversation leads, and taking it in the most interesting possible, most interesting direction possible. And so you've definitely developed that skill. So thanks for that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:05   Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. So you know, with your project, how can we get involved? And you know, for people who want to get involved, or for people who want to support your project? What is the best way to contribute or to get involved with with your project? Paul Zizka  58:23   I would say just for, I would say, just providing feedback, providing feedback, how do the images make you feel? You know, as you start maybe following along under one of the accounts, let me know how the images make you feel. Other people read the comments, things feed into one another, I think just trying to generate that conversation around the images is great. There's a lot of talk about and a lot of arguing about the science and the numbers and the math and in the statistics. And those conversations in a way are already happening, which is fantastic. But there's a lot of fatigue, like I said, relating to those conversations. And so if you have some feedback that pertain to more like more of the visual, then I'd love to hear Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:13   it. That is that is I think that's great, you know, because different things appeal to different people. So yeah, if you if you have anything, it when you go to the social media and the website, if there is anything that you can think of it as anything that speak to you more than the other, please do let Paul know, you know, so that he can take that and do more of that and you know, think about what other ways he can do to you know, reach more people so that is fantastic. Thank you so much for doing this. You know, I think this project is so important. When I when I go to the Rockies and start exploring the ice scape is such a heartbreaking fact to know that. Geez like in I'm getting goosebumps right now. But in about 10 years, a lot of that would would go away. Right? And it's it's really sad. It's really sad that a lot of the icebergs gonna break off and you know, melt it with the rest of the water. So, yeah, I, I admire you for doing this and I love that you're doing this. All right, well, we can handle this hopefully you get a lot of benefit a lot of wisdom and hopefully you take a lot of notes from there. You know, these are some of the advices that you would pay hundreds of dollars if you want to work directly with Bose this guy and you're getting it three years. Thank you very much for doing that poll. But yeah, with that being said, thank you for for Thank you very much for listening in. And if you haven't subscribed, hit the subscribe button. And we do appreciate any feedback coming from you. So leave a review on in Apple podcasts or even email us you know, if you do enjoy this, it would mean a lot well poses God thank you very much for being here again, for sharing your, your project, as well as for you know, giving us all this wisdom and advices on how we can move forward, but also how we can find hope, purpose and happiness to our photography. Unknown Speaker  1:01:21   It was such a pleasure, Stanley. Thank you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:25   Fantastic. All right, we can do this. I'll see you guys next week. Keep shooting and keep creating

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast. This week we have Eric Pare and Kim Henry, who revolutionise light painting and portrait photography.    Photographer Eric Paré and contemporary dancer Kim Henry have built a lifestyle combining passions for performing art, photography, travel and light painting.   Exploring the world with their light-painting tubes, they create unique imagery mixing light-painting and landscape photography in magnificent locations, sharing every single tip about their techniques along the way. When they are not on the road, you can find them performing studio photography in Montreal where they capture dance using 176 cameras on a full 360° system.   Mixing studio and outdoor photography allow them to continue pushing their limits while keeping the balance between those two complementary aspects of their art. Their work has been featured on CNN, MTV, BBC and TEDx, and they have worked on large-scale campaigns with Audi, Apple, Adobe, HP, ESPN, Intel, Canon and Microsoft. Some recent projects brought them and their team to Coachella, Panorama, CES, SXSW, Xposure and the Olympic Games.   You can learn more about both Eric Pare and Kim Henry on:   links https://ericpare.com/links https://kimhenry.dance/links   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers. ----------------- Transcription: Kim Henry  0:00   And it was it was not a big success. But when we saw those big tools, those big plastic tubes are like, Oh, I think there's something there. Eric Pare  0:08   So on that night, where we were like, oh, there's something so cool to play with. We're like, what do we do with this? Are we going to keep it as a secret, or we're going to reveal it. And now 10s of 1000s of people are doing this.  Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:24   Hey Wicked Hunters. Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey and share how photography given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have someone who is an innovator in the photography industry, someone who actually I followed a long, long time ago. It's such a privilege to have them here today, and being able to hear the story behind not only their photography, but also the innovation behind it, because trust me, it will blow your way. Blow your mind away. So today we have Eric and Kim. How are you guys doing? Eric Pare  1:06   Hi. So good to be with you today. Tonight for us in mourning for you. We'll start right away. I had a question for you. Okay. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:17   Oh, right away. I love this. This is great. I thought I was supposed to be the one asking question. Eric Pare  1:23   Do you speak? You speak Indonesian, right? Yeah, I do. I know one word. Okay. And I have no idea how to pronounce it. But I want to tell that word to Kim. Because this is one comment that always come from Indonesian fans. The right to Kim. So if you saw that, Karen Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:44   Kerim gramme, what does that mean? Yeah, it's actually mean awesome. Oh. Yeah. It's like, oh, grand is like, oh, it's like, awesome. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, you guys are doing really awesome stuff. 100%. You know, when I first come across your work, one of the thing that really intrigued me is just the way you do slide and how you like painted right behind the portrait behind your subject. And I thought it was something that I had never seen before. So when I first saw that right away, I was like, wow, like, that's incredible. And I have I have made a few attempts to buy the tube and everything but I've never followed through with with it. So you know, now that I've gone on a podcast with you, maybe that's my incentive to actually make that happen. But, look, it's so incredible to see how both of you work together, you know, as a as a photographer, and dance and before we can move forward with, you know, all the different question. Tell us a little bit about how did it all get started? You know, how did it all get started for you, Eric as photographer and how it kind of transpires with Kim and you know, half of two different work of art meet together. Eric Pare  3:14   Okay, so I think you already know that's the reference so many photographers, I was travelling with a point and shoot camera. You heard you heard that before? Right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:25   Yeah, Eric Pare  3:28   I got super lucky because as I was very interested into photography, I wanted to become professional. But where do you start? Like if you have no one? Like no, none of your friends? And that it doing this as a profession as a business? Or how do you start and I was super interested about photography, and I had a point and shoot camera, and I was travelling, and I was taking pictures of plants, birds and stuff. And just been lucky. I had a friend and agency and he called me one day. So how can you do that? That gig with us taking pictures of product? And was like, Oh yeah, I bought my first DSLR like the cheapest one I could find just because that that's what I was thinking was a good way to get started. And I killed them. Like my first gig was so great, because it was something that was kind of easy for me with the small experience I had. I think I've been lucky and I did a great job with it. So then I got another one one and then I've been able to buy my first full frame which was a five D one back there. So it's a long time ago. And and then yeah, I've continued to do progressively for a year or two. But it's the passion started to fade out because we're just taking photos of products. I was doing personal projects where I felt Like it was not bringing anything new, so kind of faded out. My, my professional is programmer. And that Job was giving more liberty, I was able to travel and do programming, but photography, not that much because I had to go to places early in the morning. And I was like, oh, not too sure if it's for me. So I got quit for a few years, until I got contacted to do a project in 360, with cameras and programming. So I had to cold the whole system to connect all of the cameras together. And that changed my life. Because this is so cool. And the first project I did introduced, you were just live events actually, in people's jumping, not the most creative things, but I felt like there was something to dig into with this technology. So after one year of going on tour with the that system was only 20 Something cameras back then was like Okay, let's try to see what we can do as an art firm with this. So I set up just a small system with 24 cameras in the studio. And this is where I met the year old kid Henry. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:29   That's a good segue. You are a dancer how Okay, okay, thank you. Yes, I can't, I can see how you guys work really well as a team. Eric Pare  6:50   I felt like I spoke too much. So I wanted to give you the ball. Kim Henry  6:57   So if I can, like, fill the gap from before we started working together and what brought me to that place, let's say. So I was a gymnast for many years, like I did competition. And then I decided to study dance. And I was doing mostly like, very high athletic, acrobatic stuff. I was fascinated by details, but also like, Yeah, high intensity movement and stuff like that. And at some point, I got injured, and I got like a surgery. And I was, at that point, I was actually wondering like I was reconsidering my career as a whole. And interestingly enough, like that, let's say that constraint became like, actually a new opportunity to, like, see a new perspective, a new way to, to see the movement and to see dance and to approach dance differently. So I became fascinated with more minimalistic dance during the time that I could not actually move. And during that process of, yeah, getting interested in like state of presence and minimalism, and what was actually like, how could i Master my body in those very subtle ways. This is where we met. He was doing light painting with dancers in 360. And like, painting is like long exposure time. So the person has to stay still and not move for very, like, a few seconds. And that was exactly where I was at. At that point, I was looking for a way to. So it became like, kind of a dance of stillness. So how to fulfil the body, in stillness. So Eric Pare  9:08   what she's not saying is that she changed the project because she was so precise. Sure, so perfect with this stillness, something I've never seen before. It wasn't my beginning. It was just a few months old with this technique. And I've never seen something like that before. She she was so good with this. And she became the face of that project that we did in early 2013, nearly 10 years ago, actually. And so that project took life. It's brought a lot of new opportunities for me, but I didn't know her. She was part of the project, but I worked with her for one hour and that was it. So after one year of surfing on that project, I decided to contact her back to see what what's next. Where do we go from here and, and then we started really to work together. So long, much longer story. But we started to travel together and to create more. So I'm not taking pictures of Kim we are dual, we work together. She's a big part of the creative process. So many of the ideas you see in our images come from her. And yeah, it's been a while now. Kim Henry  10:30   Yeah, yeah. So it's super interesting how, as you said, like, are two very different paths and expertise actually meet in that art expression that we made like ours? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:44   That's incredible. I it just got me excited to have both of you here. And I was so happy when Eric, you know, say that, you know, you're gonna rock him in there. Because it's like to have my passion, you know, that I have in life kind of collide together, you know, dance and photography, that is just incredible. And I love hearing that story. Right? It's, I mean, when it comes to photography, we see it over and over again, that we love it from the, for the creative part of it, but many of us cannot lose that. lose, lose sight of that, throughout the journey, because you know, whether we're looking for that followers, the numbers or you know, try to make money off of it, and that kind of fade away. So I think it's really important to understand to remember why you can get into it, and what's the biggest purpose? So that's incredible. So I could say that is so talk to me a little bit about the 360 project, like what is that project? How did it come? Why? Why did the project what what was the project there? What was the main purpose of that project? Eric Pare  11:59   So the first project was for Chevrolet cars, and it was during a tailgate for a football game in Quebec City. And I was hired to programme the system to connect all the cameras together, and, and show and push the final video on social media. Because back then we were pushing your videos directly to Facebook. So the folks were coming in the centre of our structure, they were jumping, we're triggering the cameras, and then they were able to share the image. So it was x experience experience or experiment. Expert No, not experiment, but if it experience for the users with a brand, okay, yeah, Kim Henry  12:50   so at that point, it was really, it was not artistic. It was like a brand paying for a really nice, cool experience for the attendees. Eric Pare  12:58   Yeah. But there was so much to do with that kind of system. And just this is what I've been pushing for for the past 10 years is to see what we can do with this. And that's how I grew up because back then was was 20 something cameras, and now I'm had 176 in one structure, but I have 400 cameras to haul and the reason why I have that many cameras is because we've been doing so many projects, and sometimes we have to ship cameras to different country to make projects. So in the end, like I'm here with tonnes of cameras, and tonnes of creative projects, mostly interest Exede, which also 3d scanning with a different kind of installation. But my playground is really the 260 it's it's an all theatre that we turn into, just create a playground, with no windows just pitch black. And we have the subject in the centre of the rig. And then I do either like painting or we do dance movements, we experiment. And we try to improve the technology because we also teach how to make that kind of system, how to use multiple cameras together because the software we did back in the days, it's still maintained, it's still developed today. And we power up tonnes of agencies and companies studios working with that kind of technology. Kim Henry  14:29   And in our case, like what is interesting is that it's a very like complex setup. It's a lot of technology and there's a lot of work behind it obviously like for the software and everything but it's it's really how to put all that technology like how to use it for the art how to apply it for the vision like the visual, the artistic vision. Eric Pare  14:55   So, if you remember in 2013 When we were We're working together after a sequence we were going outside of the rig. And we're looking at the playback on the one camera. So we couldn't see the 360. Right away, we had just guess what it would look like. And we were editing from one camera just to see if the light was good. So we're scrolling on the one of the 24 cameras just to see if it was okay or not. And then it would take hours to download all of the files, and maybe some were good, maybe not. And now we push the button and have full result is really within a few seconds, fully calibrated and, and ready to do view. So yeah, we, we worked a lot on that we have a team here working on the software on the hardware, so we have technicians and and now when we go in the studio, we can play without thinking too much about the technology is it going to work or not, it is working, because this is what the team is, is there for. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:56   That's, that's incredible. And so you guys are literally the grandfather of 360 cameras, then Eric Pare  16:04   I don't want to say that, I don't feel comfortable with that. Because other companies were there before me, there are a few other ones. But the way I use it is the way I want to live my life. And I'm lucky to have access to this. And I work for this of course, but like I made the choice to have that, that permanence to do and we're not many and currently to that kind of thing. And but I want to keep doing this because I feel like we're into something quite unique, super interesting. And every time we go there, we know that there's something else to to experiment with something else to discover. Yeah, that's cool. Same with with photography with one camera, but when you have unrealistic 66 that you can start to think about other ways you can trigger the camera to make different kinds of sequences and, and play with the with the time and space in 3d. So it's endless. It's mind blowing, it's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:09   like when you get a camera, like you have one perspective and you get to you know, like, if you have a 360 camera, then you have so many different perspectives that you can play around with. Eric Pare  17:20   Yeah, but that's a good point. And that's how I learned like painting you truly, because back in the days, there were not there were no tutorials and like waiting for me was just like writing your name with a flashlight. It was not interested in that. But the technique I crafted was to do everything in one second because I wanted to have a very sharp subject. And as I was building this, I was doing trial and errors, but I had access to 24 angles. So I learned faster because of that. So when you have one camera, you see the result, but the result of just four with five degrees difference is totally different. And having access to all of those files made me learn so much quicker than that is glad for that. But it's very helpful for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:06   Wow, that's actually so cool. So I have a few questions for QA as well. But before we get to that, I'm interested on how you tell me that you know, the first thing was the point on shoot, and then you get into the 360 project. Now, where does the light painting came in? Like, at what time you go like, you know what, I'm gonna start doing this really cool stuff with the light painting and create, you know, circles and you know, sparks and pattern and all these incredible stuff that I have never seen before. Eric Pare  18:40   Yeah, and it makes sense. Once I explained the reason why because I had no interest with like painting, as most people refer back then because I didn't know any like printers doing professional work. I found a few while researching for that. But prior to that, like like I think we're just making like growing hard to notice at all. However, as I was saying, I was in a very small studio with 24 cameras. It was so small and I had experienced with strobes likes to do lightweight softbox these big things, but I couldn't use that because it was too big. And I was lighting up the whole rig with my with my lights. So I had to find a way to use very concentrated light around my subject. So I took a flashlight and I started to draw around around my subject and it worked. And then I started to get more interested and I found really good light painters like there was already something back then. So some very inspiring artists and I worked with with one of them and he's actually in Montreal, Patrick fashion which is one of the best painters in the world. We don't hear much about him now because he's not very active on social media, but Is is so good with this. And I saw him working. And he was doing like a one minute exporter and crazy light. And it was like, Oh, that can be something like there's something there crafting the light by hand. It's so different this is this is so different. So from that point, I was not behind the camera, it was with the subject in front of the camera. And I wasn't interested to do super long exposure, because I wanted to have a very sharp subject. So this is how I came up with that once again, exposure technique. But then how did we bring that outdoors that happened with him a few years after a boss, I'm passing the ball. Yeah. Do we go there? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:41   Yeah, let's go. Kim Henry  20:42   Yeah, so we were back. In 2015, we were teaching light painting in studio. We've been teaching since the beginning, basically, but and every time like we were, every time we would do a workshop would ask for people to like, would try to get some new tools and different stuff the day of so we could actually show people that we can do like painting with basically anything. So flip flops, Apple and things like that. And a friend of us, we were in in San Francisco, and a friend of us actually recommended us to go to a place called Tap plastic, because we could find some plastic stuff and acrylic. And we got there. And then we're like, was it for four feet, four feet long plastic to make for like, fluorescent to cover fluorescent lights. And we're like, oh, that could be a really nice tool. It's a very big tool, because we've been trying maybe a few months earlier to bring like painting outdoors. And it was it was not a big success. Like, we were not satisfied. Everything was very visible. And we didn't have like high quality. So we just leave it at that for that moment. But when we saw those big tools, those big plastic tubes are like, Oh, I think there's something there. So we took one thing, yeah, just one, we only bought one we bought like other stuff for the workshop. And we did that. And it was it was super fun. But that night, we went out on the beach with that same friend. And we just started with the same flashlight that we had the same. And it was actually good. Yeah, it Eric Pare  22:33   was exactly the style, you know, of us working outdoors at the blue hour with one circle. This is exactly what we created that night on the first night trying something with that long do we define that style that is much more popular than anything else we've been doing in 360? Because this is accessible. This is how we created a community. It's by teachings on that night, where we were like, oh, it's something so cool to play with. We're like, what do we do with this? Are we going to keep it as a secret? Or are we going to reveal it? And we decided to just share everything. And that was a good decision. Because it's it's got to be easy. It's accessible. It's not expensive. And now 10s of 1000s of people are doing this. It's so cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:23   Yes, that is the right word. It's so cool. Because like, I'm getting goosebumps right now just like hearing you get like you're you guys explaining this, but like, like, I looked at it and what's really cool about it is you know, with with with light, as you can experience, you can create a smooth or like a sharp thing, especially at night with photography. And you create that and you create the dynamic you you can use an even like you create, like with the tape to create a different pattern and then you have sparkles on the you know, the outside. It's just so cool. Like, you know, like, we always think How did you come up with that and it's so cool to hear the story behind it. So, so then now I can call you guys the grandfather of the tube light painting then is that right? Eric Pare  24:25   I will never claim that I invented that. Okay, some people do but like PT has been there forever. And some people we found after afterward that some people were especially German people were using similar tools but did nothing the same way. But we found one picture that is very aligned with what we do and in dates from way before we were there probably in the 90s Okay, and I have to find that photographer. It's a it's a music album and the cover is with the tube picture and I don't want to reveal that show now. But we'll come back when they would with the answer. But yeah, so I never claimed that I invented that. But clearly, we made it popular. And that's super satisfying. Can we read something we just received? We just receive a message? I think it fits well with the topic. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:19   100% Jump in. Eric Pare  25:23   So yeah, I was thinking, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:25   is this the Indonesian? Is it Indonesians as well. Eric Pare  25:29   So so someone on Instagram shared our work, and I just replied, thanks for sharing. And she she replied with this. Okay. Kim Henry  25:39   My pleasure. I love you guys work and have learned a lot from you. You inspired me to light pain to do light painting to begin with. And I followed your journey for many years now. I am always impressed with each new creation, you and Kim come up with. Fun fact, I met my partner while I was like painting on the beach because he was doing the same thing. And we bonded over both having followed you and learned from you. I can't emphasise enough how cool I think what you do Eric Pare  26:09   is it's so much more than the it's making people connect and become life partners. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:18   What do you want more than this? Wow, Eric Pare  26:21   she made my day for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:24   That's incredible. And this is why I love having people on the podcast this because this kind of stuff you wouldn't hear otherwise. Right? And it That is incredible. You know? That is? That is so cool. So like, you know, I got a funny question for you. And you know, Erica, earlier in, in when we first can chat here in the podcast, you can assess like, Well, I'm very technical. And then Kim is the creative one. So I'm just wondering, how much of that, you know, from the photography? How much how does the creativity work between the two of you? How do you come up with the concept and you know, the pose and the lighting and the landscape? Because you do think about that, you know, when I see your photograph, you think about where you put it, you know, where, whether it's at nighttime with the stars, or remember, you're posting something with the tail of the Milky Way, and you're like, I don't know where the Milky Way is, but the tail is still pretty beautiful or something like that. So how does that creativity work between the two of you to create this masterpieces? Eric Pare  27:44   For me, it's trial and error. I know you try a lot of things. And so sometimes you see all of this is working. So then you jam on that and then gets you other ideas. A lot of my work is based on constraints. Okay, so as I was saying, on 360, if I use like painting was because of the constraints, and I impose myself a lot of constraints, like I'm never using a flash outdoors, even though I know would be easier to freeze my subject, I don't want to go there. Because I feel like there's so much more about using a single source of light that you use to light up your subject have the trace of light, it feels like everything blends well together. So I I keep my thoughts on that. So there is that constraint that is helping the the creative decisions, the the overall identity that we crafted over over the years. But then can keep keeps challenging me about things that I'm like, It's not possible. Don't even think about that. Kim Henry  28:47   And I try it anyway. Eric Pare  28:52   And the best example is one day, she was like, Oh, I can I could like take sand in my hands. And then you do the circle. I was like, No, it's a long exposures not going to work. And of course, that's super pretty because she she's good with that kind of thing. She's super precise, to start to release the sand one hand after the other while I was doing the circle, like perfect timing, and she got it the first night. We try that. Kim Henry  29:21   If I can add to that, I think we're both very curious people. And we both really like challenges. So we'd like to push or the limits of what we think is possible. And yeah, we always use constraints. So let's say I usually say as a joke, like, I like plans, sometimes we plan thing, but what I like even more is to change plans. You know, like when the plan doesn't work, or doesn't seem to work then how do we adapt, adjust and come up with something and play with what is here in front of us. So I think it's a I don't know if it's a philosophy, but it's a way to approach our creative life. And life in general, I'd say Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:08   100% 100% I think that is a lot of how, you know, like, I, when I hear Eric is like, very logical, it's like, well, we try this, it works. And then we kind of just, you know, change it up. And then it's just like, Yeah, you know, let's just try something crazy. Yeah, I can see how you know that dynamic really works. Kim Henry  30:28   But I'm also very analytic, like a, like, joke, as I'm very like, up in the air. And, you know, but I'm very analytic. And I like to, and I'm usually the one who, when we do something, let's say almost by luck, and we're not sure how it happens, then I'm the one who tries to dig and understand and like, figure out what what we did. So we can actually do it again. Maybe you're just so I'm pretty nerdy as well. Eric Pare  30:56   Yeah. And that's very helpful for me, because there are so many details that I don't see. And she's, she knows, like a lot of things that it's just too much for me. And that's, that's also why she's helping a lot in when we have, like corporate games here this to do, like we get hired by brands to do stuff in 360 and work with dancer sometimes. And she always like, finds the little things that we can improve. And like she does creative direction here, things that I'm so clueless about. So, super lucky that she she sparked up this whole story. Kim Henry  31:35   Yeah, so I guess once again, it's like, complementary strengths that we put underneath. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:41   Yeah. Wow, that is really cool. So now I kind of want to ask a few questions for Kim. And, you know, you mentioned how you were a dancer and you got injured and and then you, you have to explore a different a different technique or different way to express yourself to dancing. Now, when I see this with photography, like, like what Eric mentioned earlier, they're just incredible. Because, you know, it's so sharp or for that long exposure, you can see a very good details on yourself. What are some of the techniques that, you know, that that you can share? So the, you know, the audience who are, you know, attempting to, to do what you guys are doing can get the same result? How can you stand still, for that long, you know, such a long time. With such, I could say, quite complicated poses as well, like, you know, it's not just like standing up, right, you have like your hands here. Really, really elegant. poses? Kim Henry  32:55   Um, good question. Well, I guess the first thing is communication, I, Eric needs to let me know, like, we have a way to communicate that, in order for me to know when he's about to trigger, and when the exposure ends. So that's one thing. We, when we teach, we always say people, we always tell people to hold their breath, because that's a very technical aspect, but it helps because even like the movement of the lungs, like, when you inhale, I'd say it's going to create movement in the body, which is enough to make the person's blurred. But more on the like, what practices I think are helping me to achieve this. When it comes to, like, it requires a lot of focus, like to be able to sustain focus and concentration for a long period of time. So any meditative practice helps in that regard. Also, like while we shoot I do body scan to make sure that my my limbs are like, at the same place not only at the same place but also that my body is still vibrant and alive and full of energy if that makes sense. Because otherwise like when you stay still for a long period of time, like the body tends to like get stiff a bit so yeah, and I train so like so my body and muscles are able to maintain like a position for for a bit because we don't think about it but let's say even just lifting the chin for a minute you can already feel like the weight of the you know the head that is heavy. So, so yeah, I don't know. It's a it's practice. And between, I'll say, like, whenever I can also, I will move between poses between like, Eric Pare  35:11   I thought you were chasing mosquitoes Kim Henry  35:14   that also different circumstances. So yeah, I just do like a reset of my bodies in my state of mind whenever I can. So I'll like move it and like shake it off to make sure that I stay like, present. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:34   Nice. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, you train your muscle and you know, so that you can have the strength basically, to keep it still. And then you also relax and come back to it to kind of reset. So yeah, that 100% That, that that's really cool. Kim Henry  35:49   I'll add to that I train my mind as well, because we shoot in like harsh conditions, sometimes, like cold, high wind mosquitoes. So I yeah, I think I think it requires, or at least I developed an endurance. Like, in that regard, as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:14   Cool. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Let's get to learn. And I'm sure the listeners can can learn a lot from that. Now, one thing that I'm interested in is to hear you know, it's been a long journey for you guys. You've been doing this for a long, long time. Was there? What was the hardest time that you have to come across? Was there any time where you maybe you almost quit? Maybe you you start? You know, not enjoying what you do? Or whatever it may be? Do you have any some sort of struggles that almost, you know, a struggle that that probably the biggest struggle that you've ever come across during your journey? Eric Pare  36:59   Can I take you Yeah, no, never. I've never had that. No, never thought about quitting never had any big struggle with having fun. And you can see, like, based on the result, it's a game we're playing in. It's just too much fun. So I definitely think I'll grab that Kim Henry  37:19   one. Well, I think the fact that we have many pillars in our creative journey, like we have 360, we have the outdoor light painting, and we also have like the dense performative, outdoor art, I feel like it's a matter for us. Of which one do we put more energy and efforts in, because we don't do we don't do one thing for a whole year, like we go from one to the other, it's like a, we're juggling with those different techniques, I think, and I feel like they all feed each other, meaning that when we work hard on a project, let's say 360, then we'll discover something and we learned from it that we can apply to outdoor light painting. So it's, it's kind of I feel like it prevents us from getting Eric Pare  38:26   from getting bored, though. So it's a very complete technique because it like we have to keep in shape. And you all know that if you train every day, you're going to be happier because it changes you your brain Okay? And just doing this, this kind of work is training Okay, when we walk for an hour and sand dunes with a heavy bag, just to reach the final point like looking for that perfect Dune is quite challenging. And this is what I really like about this I actually prefer being being like on a trip because I feel like I'm more active now we're in the studio for two two months and I'm not as active right by we have to post process the images that's that's cool. And it's kind of a it's kind of a vacation because we can slow down the pace here the studio, but then we're going to go back in vacation into in two weeks on the road because this also feels like vacation. So when a vacation is the vacation from the other vacation. You don't get bored. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:37   Oh yeah, that's awesome. It sounds like a dream life. Kim Henry  39:42   Well, I feel like well, two things I was thinking about. The first one is the fact that yeah, like we say that like painting is a lifestyle and I think that's a bit but Eric just explained like we we know that in order to achieve what we want to achieve We need to be disciplined and take care of our bodies of our mind. So have a balanced life, which means that we don't work all day like we work really hard. But we also like, kind of impose time to like, Take breaks and like do other stuff. And also, what was the other one? Oh, yeah, he always he always says that. We're still at the beginning of something. And I think that that kind of links to what do they call it? Like, the beginner's mind, something like that, you know, like that approach of curiosity and of feeling that we're not at the end of the journey. So we're focusing on the journey itself, which makes it like kind of, yeah, helpful. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:50   Exciting. Yeah, it's always exciting. Eric Pare  40:54   I have to just make some precision here, just to clarify, because, like, we're talking with all those, like, beautiful journeys we have, and everything looks perfect. And it kind of is, and but it's might seem to be impossible to reach some time. Because, and because we're also paid to do this. It's crazy. Like we were paid to, to have this vacation and vacation vacation. But it didn't arrive. We can one day, and this is by doing that kind of work for years. And so there was for me, too, is 10 years of trials and error before getting the first bucks from from a creative work. So you have to be dedicated. Of course, it's taking a long time, but it's really worth it. Kim Henry  41:50   Yeah, yeah, I think exactly. It's not like, it's not easy. It's not like your success story. It's it's like, it's also, there's, as you said, like a lot of work on like both of art, like different paths and common one. But I really feel like the way we individually approach our work and our art, artwork is similar in our dedication, and in our way to focus on what we want to focus on, which is the positive, the excitement, the like, the possibilities. But we do have setbacks, and we do have like, it's yeah, it's not always easy. I'll say that. But I feel like it's a conscious decision to like, does that make sense? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:50   That is incredible. No, I love that. I love that so much. Because, you know, like, one quote that really stuck with me this year was whatever you focus on become your reality. And I know like going through, you know, all of this journey, I'm sure there must be a lot of struggle that you guys go through, but it seems like you don't focus on that, like, given se, you just focus on the beginner's mind, you know, it's like, oh, well, you know, it's, we're, you know, it's like seeing it's like going to the beach for the first time you're excited. And you know, you always just focus on that next new exciting things like what you can came up with, what sort of innovation you can do with your art and so forth. So I think that's a lot to, to, to learn from, to be able to always enjoy the journey through our you know, even the hardest time and to a point where you guys don't even feel it. I think that's really cool. Eric Pare  43:51   I forget about the negatives. Just like my guts to go against running away. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:59   That is awesome. That is so cool. Yeah. So I have a just an interesting question here. You know, Eric, you're very technical. You love photography. And Kim, you're very creative. You like dance. Now? How much? How good are you on doing each other's shows? If we were just for fun thank you know, sup your role and have Eric do the posting and the dancing and the photography? Eric Pare  44:35   I have one most I have only one post. But yeah, we have a few pictures where we switch roles. Just because why not? So it's good for us to play both roles. We learn more by doing this. And that's something we we always mentioned in our workshops is to try to do both roles, because once you understand the challenge of the subject of the model and see due for you to just to get better at directing? Kim Henry  45:04   Oh, yeah. But yeah, I enjoy doing the light painting, I think I could probably get away with the framing habits have something that makes sense. But to change the settings during the blue hour at the speed that he does, that would take me a while, that's for sure. He runs like back and forth every few minutes to change the settings. And Eric Pare  45:26   yes, and I handle three cameras on the field, okay, because I always pin what I do. I'm by myself, yeah, handling three cameras, two different focal length one film me, and I run the largest settings. But I'm used to that because of the multi camera systems. So I'm just used to to handle love technology and things like that. It's part of the fun. But yeah, but I'm sure you'd be good with with one camera, if you can focus on this one and just like, set the right composition and setting, you know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:02   Wow, that's cool. So now I want to talk about you know, your Kim, your latest project. And I've been seeing this in Twitter, I think I saw it for the first time. I think about a few weeks ago, a couple a week ago or something like that, right? And actually, I'm not, I'm not gonna say too much about it, because it's gonna give it away, I'll let you ship it first, and then I'll say something about it. Kim Henry  46:29   So my latest project is called timeless. It's kind of the continually of what we've been doing, or what we've been doing for years, let's say, because when we were travelling, we would arrive on location very, like, early, like, late afternoon. And then we would shoot dance photography. So sunset, dance and stuff like that. So we can we could actually connect to each other. And I could connect with the environment, which for me is very important my process. So So time is is is my baby. It's basically like, What can I say? Can I see what I'm saying everything. Eric Pare  47:21   But it's all about the textures. The first idea you had was to, to use mud cracks, because we've been working on cracks and some desserts. And you were very interested in that texture. And you wanted to experiment with having that on your skin and combine both. But that didn't work. We we played with this in studio for a few weeks. And then we went to replicate that in the field with the real mud cracks, but we couldn't find any. So then the product evolved into other things. And we started to experiment with different textures like salt. Kim Henry  47:55   So different matter, different, different way to immerse myself in the environment and connect with the environment. Be it sand dust, but it's all started with clay. And I think it's whole in line with my fascination for, like presence and like state of attention and intention of the body in connection with nature. So that's, that's how it started. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:29   Wow. Yeah, that's cool. Like, I really can feel that, like, you know, the emotion. And you know, when I first saw, I think Eric was sharing one of the photo from that, and then I just can feel that emotion and you know, with how you use the sand and use that dynamic with with your movement, because there was a lot of movement in that in that in that photo. Ironically, but not gonna steal oil. There's a lot of movement. So yeah, that's, that's really cool. Thanks a lot for sharing that. Sorry. Yeah, Kim Henry  49:01   thank you for asking, Well, what I'm trying to what we're trying to do with that is to kind of encapsulate really, like, short moment of ephemeral performances, because that's what we do when we're outside. Like, I'm not posing per se, I'm really performing dancing, and we don't actually talk Eric is there you take pictures, videos, but it's really like it's a short moment of performance that we're trying to capture basically. Eric Pare  49:36   Yeah, I don't direct her because I have no idea how to do that. So I'm going to give her some indications like can you turn 90 degree because the sun it's better on that direction but that's that's about it and the rest is all her ideas and her way of moving song. I'm just here behind the camera, taking pictures, but that's mostly her her thing Kim Henry  49:59   like Once again, that could exist if it were not from that collaborative process because it's a very personal project. And I wouldn't do it with some somebody else and Eric because I trust him. I know his vision I, I trust his artistic input. So, so yeah, I feel like it's my performance. I kind of it's a very vulnerable state when I perform. But obviously could not exist if he was not on board with me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:38   Oh, yeah, that's, that's really cool. So just to kind of understand a little bit about the process. So you know, you kind of get into find your location. And basically, it came you do your dances and your movement? Is that right? And then Eric was just there to observe and then take photo whenever you feel it feels like it's a good frame. Eric Pare  51:01   Burst Mode, I just continues to burst mode. I have no idea what I'm doing. Love that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:20   So, Erica, I was still wondering when you take photo of that, do you? Like do you know what Kim was? Yeah. Do you know what Kim was about to do? Like, or have you ever seen the movement? Or is it like, absolutely new, just go like, whoa, okay, that was cool kind of thing. Or it's like, okay, you know, this is where she can usually take his and so forth. Eric Pare  51:45   Alright, so I never watched movies, okay. But I used to back in the days and sometimes I would ask my friend, if you can we go to watch a movie and I don't want to know what that would be a lot of surprise. Okay. And sometimes I feel like it's like this with Kim. Okay, so I'm behind the camera. I have no idea what's going on. I know it's going to be a show. Okay. And I'm the lucky one, assisting this wonderful dance show. And I get to click the button. And that's about it. But yeah, it's always fun to the witness. I feel very lucky to be part of this. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:23   Wow. Yeah. No, that's cool. I I'm much the same. Actually. When I steal movie, I hate watching trailers. I just go like, that looks interesting. And you know, I want to watch it. So yeah, that's, that's really cool to hear. Well, guys, we're kind of hitting the one hour mark. And you know, it's been so much fun. It's so much pleasure to hear to have you here and to hear your story. Now, before you go. One last question that I always ask my guests. And both of you can give me one each right. I saw Eric's getting tense. Eric Pare  52:56   What's that question? I know. I'm not Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:03   awesome. Well, you know, just you just say this earlier. You just say that you like surprise. So here's the surprise. If there was one advice that you know, you could give to an audience or to your younger self, or you know, to anyone in this world, whether it be photography live or whatever it may be, what would that advice be? Eric Pare  53:30   Yeah, so I'm going to be okay, I guess I'm saying that to myself, just because I doubt that, but everything's gonna be okay. Just keep doing what you do. Should I give? Kim Henry  53:45   To my younger self? That's a good one. Let me think, I guess, I guess I would say to not take things too seriously. To connect to the playfulness, and to the curiosity, and yeah, probably like to trust your intuition. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:18   Yeah. Wow. That's really great advice. So have fun, and it's all gonna be okay. That's perfect. It's so simple, but it makes sense. Like, where are we complicated ly so Kim Henry  54:30   yeah, but not not in the sense that not in I don't mean this in a like denial way. Like it's going to be okay. You're not going to face anything, but just to trust that you actually have the tool to face whatever you're gonna have on the path, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:48   Yeah. Wow. Now that's that is a great advice. All right. You guys really appreciate your time here. I really enjoy having you here. So much fun talking to you. You guys are just You know, such a great human being, hopefully I get to connect and actually meet you guys in person one day. But for the audience who want to get in touch with you who want to learn more about what you do, because I know you guys are teaching and sharing so much knowledge on, you know, to paintings and all this stuff. And perhaps for those of them who want to sign up to your workshop, what is the best way to connect with you and to find you. Eric Pare  55:26   So we rarely do workshops, while we did a lot in the days, but I think we do two per year. And it's always organised with bigger organisation. So we don't do any by ourselves for the moment. But we teach everything online on YouTube for free, never charge anything for, for tutorials, all of the knowledge is there. And you can find all of the links from tube stories that TV Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:54   by and fantastic and I'll be sure to put that you know, that link on the description as well as both of your social media so that you know people can connect, connect with your work more and see more of your work. And if this is the first time of you. For listeners, if this is the first time that you heard, Eric and Kim, man, you're in for a treat, just just go into social media trust me, you know, I'll buy you ice cream if you don't Yeah, no, no, but if you if you guys get intrigued with the with the with, you know, with their work, it's the other way around. You guys buy me ice cream, so I'm ready to eat a lot of ice cream. But um, yeah. Thanks a lot, guys for being here. I love talking to you guys. There's just so much fun. Perhaps one day, we'll have you back. And we'll have we'll cover a different topic. But it's been such a pleasure. You know, I follow your work for a while. And I've seen what you did with photography with lights and innovation that you put in the space and how you share a lot of this with the people. And it's it's just been an honour to be able to actually talk to you guys, and have you guys in my podcast sharing these inspiring stories. So thanks a lot for being here, guys. Eric Pare  57:22   Thank you, Stanley. We're super happy to be part of your wonderful podcast. Yeah, it Kim Henry  57:26   was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:29   Fantastic. Well, weekenders thank you for very much for tuning in. Hopefully you get a lot of gems from that. And if you haven't already done so make sure you check out both Kim and Eric as well as their work. Dances and Kim's latest project is something that are quite enjoyed. Actually, there's so many emotions in just a stillness. So make sure you check it out. But with that being said, if you enjoyed this conversation, make sure you leave a review on on the podcast on the platform so that more more people can listen in and heard about them. But with that being say, keep creating, keep shooting and I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to the art of photography podcast with Stanley Aryanto. This week we welcome a celebrity photographer all the way from LA.  Walid Azami is a photographer & video director based in Los Angeles, California. Originally from Kabul, Afghanistan. He has worked with people you may recognize like Jennifer Lopez, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Ricky Martin, Mary J Blige, Wendy Williams, Bernie Sanders, and many more. His work has been featured in magazines such as Rolling Stone, Glamour, Allure, and Teen Vogue. He's known for holding the client's hands through the entire time, creating dramatic images, and evolving the experience and creative process for everyone on set. He invests his time empowering the community of photographers, creatives, and visual artists with amazing business/life advice through his platform.  Platform: Website: https://www.walidazami.com/ Blog: https://photographybusinesscourse.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/walid.azami/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/WalidAzamiTV  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------ Transcription: Walid Azami  0:00   value yourself. Because without your work, you can't launch pretty much any industry without the work of a photographer. Without a photographer capturing those, the community will never know who you are what the food looks like, that's photography, that is the value of what we do. Now, we, you need to charge for that, because what you're doing is they're not doing you a favour by calling you you're doing them a favour by lending your talent. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:37   Welcome to the Art of Photography podcast, how are you? Walid Azami  1:43   I'm good. Thank you so much for having me that I have really appreciate it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:47   Yeah, no, it's, you know, I love you get in touch and I look at your prom, your profile your portfolio, and I was just intrigued. So it's a lot of my audience, or a lot of my guests are, you know, from the travel landscape, and I have a few people from portrait, but you know, never from the celebrity niche. So this is really exciting for me, I never, you know, know what's going on in there. So I have a whole lot of questions for you. Walid Azami  2:15   Awesome, awesome. Well, hopefully they accept it. And I know that they will. But like, you know, it's something new for the photographers that are accustomed to hearing your podcast. So, you know, maybe maybe we'll all learn a little bit Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:27   100% 100% I mean, you know, me myself, I do a whole lot of genre of photography. And I know there are a lot of landscape photographers out there who also love doing portraits, fashion and so forth, right. But we just have like the main thing, which was, you know, landscape or astral photography. So, this definitely will apply to everyone. But before we get started, give us a little bit introduction about who you are, what's your background, and you know, just a little bit about how the audience can get to know you better. Walid Azami  3:02   Sure, I'd be happy to thank you. I'm number one, my name is Walid Asami. So I'm in Los Angeles. And, as you mentioned, yeah, I do a lot of celebrity, but I also do a lot of commercials and big brands, domestic and international. And I've also started to branch out to directing music videos and commercials, and now creative directing, too, and then also mentoring photographers in their careers. And I'm very interested in landscape photography for what that's worth too. But I've been shooting for maybe about 12 years. And it's been a very rough road. I think, like most photographers listening to this podcast, but I just, you know, my goal has been for the past six years, still continuing my photography career, but then really designating a big chunk of that, I would say, almost like a third of my energy into making sure my peers do well, too. And whether it's from my mistakes, or my big accomplishments, I think there's something that I can teach people and make sure that nobody ever takes advantage of photographers, and that they do well, and that they get the compensation that they deserve to. So that's pretty much a little bit of a lowdown on me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:16   That's incredible. Yeah, that's love to hear that, you know, I think, you know, as a photographer, it's really important to, or as an artist, I shouldn't say photographer, because this apply kind of on the board is that we are we are stamped with this notion that you know, it's we can't make money from photography and you know, it doesn't produce it doesn't make a living basically, you know, like the starving artist mentality. And we know that it's not true. Because you know, like, there are so many different photographers already have made it and there is a lot of mentality I think behind that. So I was curious, are you were you I'm born in grew up in LA itself, or what's a little bit of your personal background? Walid Azami  5:08   Um, no, definitely not raised? Well, I guess somewhat raised in LA. But I was born in Kabul, Afghanistan. So I'm a total war baby. And that sense, refugee, and America never took a photo class in my life. Never ever, like not even one class. One time, actually. I did at the junior college, take, like, try to take an intro to photo class, but I'm on week number two, I quit. Because the way that they were moving at that speed, and I just thought was like, Oh, my God, you want to tell me about the history of this. I just want to know how to do it. And so I just didn't show up anymore. Terrible student in that way. But yeah, that's my background. So I didn't come from a family that had photography and its blood, I didn't have any special connections. Just a lot of hard work some luck, and lots of hard work again. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:05   That's incredible. And so what did you you What did you study in, in, in college or university? Where did you get into or you ever go into college and university or you just throw yourself through into photography right away? Walid Azami  6:20   No, I was going to actually become a teacher. And not because I really, really wanted to be a teacher, I actually think it's the most important job in the world I really do. Besides being a good parent, is that but my mom was a teacher, my aunts were a teacher, my grandfather was a teacher. So really, that does run in my blood. And I think that was the most, at least on paper, like the most free job like the freeing, liberated, independent job, it's really not these poor teachers, they have to work, especially in America, it's really hard for teachers. But my, my, I was a history major. And then my specialty was the Israeli Palestinian conflict. So I just became obsessed with that story, and really dug deep into that one. And then after that, I ended up working with Madonna right afterwards, completely different 180 degrees. But I will say, though, that my history was what really helped me excel in that office, because Madonna would be, hey, we need we need to research this one thing for the World Tour. And people could not research. I don't know why people couldn't research and I was like, just wait, just wait, I'm about to kill you guys with like, the 17 books I pull because of this, you know, so it helped me in that sense. But no, I never study photo, that is incredible kind of fall in my lap. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:51   What is story? You know, I think this is what, actually, you know, just the other weekend, we went for a catch up with a few friends. And he mentioned this notion that, you know, everything we do in life is an admin at administration to get to what we want to achieve. And this is exactly it, right? A lot of people nowadays, especially with the instant gratification, we we don't want to put into work, we don't want to do this admin and we just wanting to get the result. But without this administration work, you're never gonna get there because you won't have enough information knowledge. And this is a really good, great demonstration of the day just show that you know, you the the study that you did have nothing to do with photography, but yet, it is what opened you to the world of photography. Now. I'm quite interested. How did you come across Madonna though, like, you know, like the teachers? Were you working for her? Or you know that because that's a pretty different niche. Right. So that's interesting to hear. Walid Azami  9:02   Yeah, I know. And I know that when I say that a lot of people are like, Well, great. Somebody, somebody just opened the door for him and and lucky kid at the time, and you know, and life was just easy. It actually wasn't easy. And here's the thing is that now I had, and I still do a small list of people that I really wanted to work with. One was like director, documentary director, Michael Moore. Another was Bill Clinton. Not not not anymore, though. But just like at the time, it was important that was like, I really want to work with this guy, because I thought he was going to make a lot of positive change and everything. And there was some other people too on that list. But on that list was Madonna. And why I really, really liked her as because visually, I was a fan of every single person that she ever brought on her team. And I watched because if you think about you know her age Now watch the world likes to make a really big deal out of her age. But the last I don't know, like 40 Somethings, 30 Somethings, 20 Somethings, 50 something, even 60 something, they all have a significant part of those younger years, with her being the soundtrack, Michael Jackson, you know what I mean? Like you to some of these people. So I had a chance to really watch her, break the mould and everything. But all that to say that she was always on my list of people that I wanted to work with. And I am I will say that of course, I worked really, really hard. My parents taught me a lot of hard work and honest hard work. But I also very, very much subscribe to manifestation and law of attraction. And so I, you know, I Okay, I'll say this, socially, I'm supposed to say, Oh, my God, it was such a surprise. But it wasn't. And neither was like, some of the other people that I work with because I, I am such a good manifester that, I don't know, I've always just knew is going to happen. Is that crazy, but it's just how that happened. And it's not just Madonna, it was like, Bernie Sanders was like that, like, Jennifer Lopez was another one. Like, it doesn't have to be like a long time being it's like I really, really focused on it. I mean, where is my, it's not here at my desk right now. But I I journal, like, several times a week, like a script. And I kind of write like a make believe of things that in this world that hasn't happened yet, but I believe that they've happened like in a parallel universe. And I, so I always played with manifestation. So so she was on that list. That's a very long answer, but I'm sticking with it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:55   No, that's incredible. I love that. And it's, it's a couple of things that I have a question with, based on what you're told me is the first, you know, you have a list of people that you want to work with. And I was, I'd love to know, what makes you what makes them to be on your list, what make you want to work with, you know, work with them, basically. Walid Azami  12:23   No one's ever asked me that question before. So thank you. And I never even thought about that, really, until you just asked that question. I really admire people that want to change the world, even if they've negatively accidentally made like a really, but people that impact like, that's one thing to be on stage and to go, Oh, look at me with beautiful lights and beautiful costumes and all that. But it's another but how many artists do that now. I mean, there's a lot of artists that have incredible shows. But how many of them change culture. And I don't think any of them really have changed culture in that capacity. Michael Jackson will be another one. You know, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, these people change culture globally. And so that I admire that like some of the people that I've worked with, like Bob Proctor is an author, he's become like the father of like law of attraction, he changed the way and entire culture, he introduced law of attraction to so many people, now, the world is catching on to it, at least the Western world finally is catching up to so to me, anyone that wants to change, make an impact, I'm always going to be a huge fan. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:37   That is incredible. You know, I think I'm a big, big believer on purpose in life and finding that you know, the purpose and not just, I mean, it's also important to do stuff that, you know, just doesn't have purpose. But at the end of the day, you know, we want to look back at our life and see what we've done, you know, how far we make a change, whether it's true, the smallest thing, you know, in our life, or the bigger thing, but you know, that what you've done is very important, right? Being able to push that positivity to the world. And basically, you know, expose them to your photography and the way you story child to that. So that's incredible. Thanks for sharing that. Walid Azami  14:24   Thank you for asking that. I think even you know, like, if I can just even add to that. It's like, yeah, it doesn't have to be celebrity doesn't have to be like a big, big author. It could be like, for example, you have large part of your audiences, like they're landscape photographers, but if you are exposing that landscape to the world, and you're able to show the beauty of a place that people normally may not have thought about, that's like a huge service, they think you've added to mankind Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:51   100% And you know, like it's, one of the things that I do in this podcast is not having people that have big followers or You know, like they are famous, but also people who just have really get great inspiring stories. And like you say, that's really important to like, just spotlight them right. Now, the second question that I have based on your previous answer was like, it's really interesting how you brought up manifesting and journaling and all this stuff, right? And I know there's a lot of people out there that literally it's like, you know, this is this is, you know, a bullshit basically is like, Oh, I've been doing this forever. I say, it's like, I want to get rich, I want to get rich, I want to get rich. But yeah, here, I am still not selling a single print. Right? So, right, give us a little bit insight of how you manifest and how you manifests in a way that you can actually make what you've think about or what you've manifested, come through. Walid Azami  15:58   Give me Give me an example of that. Or, like, oh, do I do it? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:02   A little bit of both, as I suppose you can give a little bit example, or actually give us? Yeah, just like how, like, how do you do it? What's the difference between those people whose who have manifested, but haven't made things come through from their manifestation? Walid Azami  16:20   Sure, um, well, I think that what it is, is that I'll start off by by saying this, there is something bigger than us. And it doesn't matter what you believe in what religion or if you don't have a religion, there just has to be something bigger than you. And that's where I really, I just hope that everyone that is listening to this podcast, is like, they believe there's nothing whether you call it God or energy, or Buddha or Allah or Mother Nature, whatever it might be. So there's something running this whole show. But the other thing too, is I don't have a course I don't have a book, I don't have an ebook. I don't have a workshop and manifestation. So when I see this, there is no gain for me. But just to see our hopefully, one day see how it benefited someone's life, if they've, you know, heard it. So much of my success has come from Law of Attraction manifestation, they kind of overlap, a way that it's about feeling. That's the biggest thing. So I used to be one of the worst students you will ever meet. But I was one of the best daydreamers in class, I would sit there, and just daydream. But what I didn't know is that as a student in the public school system of America, I was failing, I wasn't failing, because I knew how to play the game and turn in every homework, and every extra credit and everything. I wasn't the best student, okay, but I had personality. And I would, like try to charm the teachers and everybody and just try to be funny when I could, and all that. But what I would do is spend an immense amount of time, an immense amount of time daydreaming to the point that I don't even remember sitting in the classroom. And I just was like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, I have to like now be friend a nerd. Because I didn't I have like two blank pages. And they have two full pages, front and back. Right? So and I'm like, hey, everybody come to my house this weekend. I'll get pizza, let's compare notes, you know, and try to figure this out. But in that process, I didn't know what I was doing was manifesting, I was truly feeling what it would feel like to do this. To the point to the point that one of my one of my fears, I remember consistently in high school was, okay, so if I get an award, if I get invited to an award show for a music video, and they only give me two tickets, like who am I going to invite like, I used to sit there and worry about it. And it was a really real, real fear. But I did get nominated for for Soul Train Music Video of the Year, I did only give, you know, I only had one ticket. My horrible agent at the time used it and didn't tell me about it. But that's a separate story. But it's like it comes. So true. I guess. Okay, so your listeners are like, Yeah, okay, great, great work for you. How do you do it? One thing that I do is called scripting. And scripting is like, Oh man, where's my actual journal somewhere in a bag or something? But I sit down for maybe 15 minutes, and I'll sit at a desk I'll go in a coffee shop just somewhere comfortable and I will write five things. So this is like truly Okay. Five things that I already have in my mind. I may not physically have At the moment, but it is coming for me it is coming to me. And so I'll write five things. And I will write, I'm so grateful that blank, I'm so grateful that five times, then I will take those five things. And then write almost like a like a journal like a diary, journal, one, two pages, something like that. And then I will use those five bullet points in a story as if it already happened. So for example, I might say, I'm so I'm so grateful now that I finally have the beach house that I wanted three levels on the side of a hill, not across the street, but the side with the ocean, right. And then I'll just say I have that. But for me to really believe it to really feel it. What I will do, then as all after I list those five bullet points, and I'll write like a journal. And I'll say, I'm so thankful now that I finally have my beach house that I wanted. And it's amazing. It has like the Spanish tiles that I really like, which makes it very uncomfortable in the winter, because you have to wear socks all the time inside the house. But but in the summer, it's amazing. And the only part I don't like is when my friends come over, my family comes over, and then all the footprints are there. And I have to mop it up afterwards. But I'm so thankful I've that many people in my life because we get to go downstairs down the grace steps made of wood to the ocean, and we get to swim and come back up to my house and barbecue. Like I write exact things, right. But then I'll actually I'll write those five things as if it happened that day. So I'm so thankful my parents could do it. And I'm thankful my sister brought my nieces too. And they got to, and I'll just sit there. And it's actually kind of sounds dorky, but it's actually fun for a minute, and you're just pretending you have it. And the idea is that you write it until you feel it. And then you just leave it alone. I will say I'll give you one quick example. Because I know you have other questions too, is here's an example of scripting, just one of many that have worked out for me. And the past three years, I had a job where I was photographing for a new startup clothing line. And the owner decided to decided to go to Bali, and go on vacation. And, and that's amazing, right? Amazing for you. But if you have a brand new company, why would you leave all of us alone for your first ever photoshoot? Very bad decision as a CEO, it was a disaster. The lady at his company had designer awful the the agent for the models complained and said, We never want to work with her again, the models complained, I complained the assistants all separately complaint and I told the CEO of this company, you know, I, I really like you. And if I didn't tell you everything that happened, I would never be a good person, a friend to you. And I kind of missed the beginning of the story. But the beginning of the story was basically that I wanted to still do photography, I still want to direct but I wanted to start creative directing. I wanted to work from home and I wanted to work maybe 15 or 20 hours a week. That's it. I didn't want to go to anyone's office. But I wanted people to start trusting me as a creative director, the shoot now the shooting happened in real life. It was a disaster. So I told the CEO how bad it was. And then he's like, I appreciate you telling me everyone else kind of complained and said she was awful. And then I sent him the pictures. And he called me like the next day or so. And he said, you know Walid, considering everything you said, considering everything everybody else said. These pictures are phenomenal. And you guys were up against a lot. And it's phenomenal. And I'm really curious, I have this weird idea. Just think about it. You can come back to me a different day and think about it. Would you be open to being the Creative Director for the the startup company no more than 15 or 20 hours a week and you can work from home? That right there is an example that happened within two weeks of me writing it in my journal. Now I know all your listeners at this point are like, Who is this guy? This is? This is crazy. That's like one example. That's how I do it. It's about feeling and that's like one example of it actually working. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:37   That's really cool. And I mean, I just remember I just got into Lena and this manifestation and meditation and I think the difference I mean if we take away you know, all of this spiritual aspect is it's all about making you believe in yourself. And you know, when you feel it, then you can believe that it already happened and therefore it's more likely that you will work towards, you know, I mean, a good example that I always use is like, let's say you need to get something from the grocer, and it's about to close in five minutes, and you're an hour away. You're never gonna make an attempt. Right. But if it's like five minutes away, and it's almost close, you know, in five minutes, I was like, Oh, maybe I could go really quick. Maybe I could not tell them. You know, it's that is the difference. It's the signal that telling yourself and that is, I love how you share, you know, the journaling, the scripting that is so powerful. Now, yeah, to segue back to, you know, photography. Yeah, yeah. This is really cool, right? Because most people in photography, you know, I know, like, most people gonna be like, What does manifesting have to do with photography? Most people in photography, they have some sort of goal, whether they want to make money of their photography, they want to capture, you know, a certain image. And I believe the only way to make that come true is to believe in the journey to believe in their in their self, right to believe that there is one day they will be able to get there so that they keep going. Now, that's it. I want to, I want to ask you a little bit from your experience and your journey. What are some of the hardest struggle that you have come across that almost make you give up this journey? That almost give it all away? And you know, take the easy route? And how did it all unfold for you? Hmm. Walid Azami  26:44   Well, your podcast is asking questions that generally other podcasts don't ask, which I mean that in the most complimentary way. So I appreciate that. What made me almost give up? Well, let me just be really honest. Not this past year. But there are good years and bad years. I think that a lot of times people are like, oh, did you almost give up? I almost give up three times a month. Not gonna lie to you. So if anyone's like, Oh, my gods like, so I'm not crazy. I'm not alone. Well, you were crazy, because this is what we want to do for an occupation. So there is a little bit of crazy, but it's like a fun, crazy, you know, I wanted to give it many, many times, because I think to myself, we need health care. And we need long term retirement and we need stable income. But then I also think to myself, like after you have like a mass, like you have a big win, that could be a massive job. That could be a beautiful photograph that you're just like, staring at it for a long time. The high of that. I don't do drugs. But I would imagine it's like the high that you would feel if you have a powerful drug. And then that right there pulls me right back into it. But the things that have bothered me, that have made me put the camera down, I've now decided to try to be an answer to that problem. So how people treat artists and photographers, well, no, we are photographers, artists. How people treat artists has really angered me how people treat marginalised populations. I'm sure it's like this around the world, but I just have experienced in America, they they make if you're a woman, if you're Brown, if you're black, if you're Asian, they make you feel that just having the opportunity is the paycheck don't ask for money. And so they add in their attitude and the what they say the microaggressions and everything. So for me, it was like okay, well, instead of giving up what a giant waste of my experience, what a slap in the face to all of the hard work that I've done. So why don't I try to be the anti everything that made me put my camera down, you know, because I did for eight months. I did stop photography. I did open a studio and I was like, Well, I guess this is it, you know, like, be thankful for what you've done. But you guys, it's not easy. If it was easy, every single person will be doing it. Who doesn't want to take photos and have people say oh my god, I love the way you see. It's incredibly special. Or, you know, or who you happen to be stumbling on this podcast or this particular episode and you're a filmmaker or you're a writer or what have you. Like it's an immense privilege to have people you know love the way you think. What was the exact question was how do I give up or did I ever think about giving up or none of those Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:43   so what you know like what what was the moment and how you get out of it? Walid Azami  29:48   Hmm. anger anger pulled me out. So for me, the anger was after eight months of putting my camera down and and manifesting nation. Okay, so here's, this is gonna take a little bit, but I promise listeners, it's worth it. Okay, so anger got me really upset when I said, Okay, enough is enough. And I'm going to make sure that I use my experience to help other people. So I started, what at the time, it was called How to photograph. Now it's called Walid Asami, on Instagram. And I was anonymously, helping photographers with tips and suggestions and pricing and marketing and copyrights, and lighting and editing, and all those different things. And I just was like, you know, what's going to happen, no one's going to take advantage of any of these other people. And I'm going to use that experience of the bad in the good. And then that account grew. Now we're like a 50, something 1000. And it grew and grew and grew, because people are like, what is this because it's like, legitimate information that's really helping people do better. And now my name is attached to it, just because it's easier, you know, and I want people to know, who I am and, and reference my work, you know, to weigh it against the advice. So it was one way that I beat it was just saying, you know, what, I'll show you, I'll show these record labels that no one can take advantage of photographers anymore. Also, these big corporate companies that you can't just bulldoze over people. And I'm going to make sure that I give my community the tools that they need so that they know how to get out of your name and get out of the way the punch back basically. So I've I have tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of screen captures that people are like thank you so much. Because of you have gone full time because of you, I was able to stop a situation. But the manifestation one, here's a, is it. Okay? If I go into one more example of that, because I want to give this gentleman Yeah, radish, who's no longer with us. But if you've ever seen the DVD, the movie, The Secret or read the book, The Secret by Rhonda burns, the movie is opened by a gentleman by the name of Bob Proctor. Bob Proctor is like the they consider like the father of law of attraction. And I was in my studio when I told you I was in my studios, it was rather large. And I I I had given up photography and the studio was the attic of an old grocery store. So me, I'm watching YouTube, and I'm like how to apply drywall. Okay, and I would just do it, how to fix electrical and I would do it how to fix plumbing and I learned everything off of YouTube. And then nobody really helped me and I was like, I stopped in the middle of all this. And I had to move into the studio because I put all my money into helping my family and I also got rid of my apartment so I can move in and invest in this business. And there were like boxes and boxes and boxes in there. And let me tell you real fast. When it was cold, it was colder in that studio. When it was hot. It was hotter in that studio. Okay, there was no installation, nothing. I don't know what I was thinking, but I did it. And so I was looking. I was looking at these boxes, all my personal belongings and I was like, I need to find the DVD for the secret. I just know there's a message in there for me. I know there's a message in there. And I don't know don't ask me why didn't decide to YouTube the video, it didn't cross my mind. I needed to find the DVD, okay, and then find my DVD player in one of those boxes. And I couldn't find it. And for three days I searched. I really really searched through everything that Mike who was here, you know when something is right there and you're like I saw it just like a week ago now I can't find it. And I gave up and I was like forget it. Just continue building the studio. So you can open this up and start making money. But that's what happens with manifestation you have to want something so bad. And then you have to let it go and release it. You know, and I did but I wasn't trying to manifest it. I was like frantically like it was literally a man at his wit's end. And, and, and I finally found it, or excuse me, I didn't find that I finally gave up when I couldn't find it. That day that I gave up. It was either later that day, or immediately the next day my phone rang. And it was a girl. Her name is Lisa. And Lisa said hi is Waleed there. First of all, I'm very private about my number. And and I was like yes, and she's like Hi, my name is Lisa. I got your number from another mutual friend of ours, and I've been looking for your information. I just found that we have a mutual friend. My boss needs new photos for new book new projects new everything. my boss's name is Bob Proctor. I didn't even know Bob Proctor knew I existed in this planet. Okay, or on this planet. I didn't Not No. Like, I had no connection to this man. And so, in the midst of all this, my students almost getting done. I was like, what I was just looking for his footage. And now his office calls me. And they're based in Arizona. And when he came, I told my producer, Matt, I was like, go all out all out, like make him feel like a king, take out of my money, take out of any department money, make sure there's beautiful flowers and like desserts and like just a beautiful thing, because I just, I was so nervous about this. And Bob came, so we shot some stuff. And the pictures are still being used. And they're widely used still. And I was by the window of the, and maybe Isabelle, my assistant can send these photos, I'll give her these photos to you. But I was by the window. And Bob and his partner, Sandy Gallagher, were in the hair makeup studio. And I was just by myself setting up the next shot. And Bob is a very airy, light, little walk, you know, like a much older man. And he walked up behind me, and he just put his hand lightly on my shoulder. And he said, You know what, lead I photographed with a lot of photographers in my life. And one of the other reasons why gave up too is because I thought I was no longer an artist, and my agent made me really feel like I hit it was gone, you know, that was just a machine. And so he put his hand on my shoulder, and he said, I've shot with a lot of photographers, and I gotta let you know, shooting with you is different. He's like, I, he's like, I've just the way you shoot, the way you see things, the way you direct things like I've never shot with anyone like you. And then and this was like in a YouTube video. So if anyone's questioning it, this has been timestamp many times over and blogged and everything. And he said, I just feel you need to hear this. But you're truly an artist. And so I had like this weird, perfect storm of like anger, I was like, I'm going to help these photographers, I'm gonna make sure that the industry never abuses photographers. But at this other time. At the same time, I was also manifesting literally, a one particular human being on this planet. And he called my office, and he came to my studio. And then he put his hand on my shoulder and said, You're an artist when I thought I wasn't anymore, so please, you guys, please don't dismiss law of attraction and manifestation. That was really the main point of that example. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:40   Wow, that was a really great story. Thanks for sharing a long story. I get better at these nuggets. That's great. And you know, like, sometimes when you shorten it, you kind of miss the, the whole sense of it. So I think it's it was great. I love hearing, you know, a lot of photographers out there or? Yeah, I would say a lot of photographers stopped being artists, when they started trying to earn from their photography, right? I mean, yeah. I really don't know any photographers who got into photography, because they want to make money because there are hundreds other photography, jobs or other profession that is much simpler if that's what you're after. Most of the photographers who want to earn money is because they love photography. They love how that makes other field through the storytelling and photography. And they want to do more of that. Right? Yeah. So I feel like an AI. Don't get me wrong, I got there as well, you know, I actually hit a burnout. And that's exactly it's very similar to what you say is that I stopped being an artist instead, I was like about, you know, how do I make money, what people like, you know, what sort of photo photo that will give me the most likes on Instagram and so forth. So your message right there, I think it's just very important that you should never forget why you started, why you get into this business, that you are an artist and that is the thing that you know, make. What you do is beautiful, right? So thanks for sharing that while he that is, you know, a lot of message behind that story and a lot of advice behind that story. That is incredible. Now. So, you know you have turned into you know, from being an artist to making being able to make money from it and doing basically a job that you love. And now you take that a step further to contributing to other photographers and empower them how Help them to, to be out there in the industry without being stepped on. Now, one thing that I'd love to hear from you is how do people value themselves and their work, because I feel like as an artist who cannot get into whoo hoo, trying to transition or even who's been in the industry for a long time, as an artist, we love to get our story shared, we love to have our photography, you know, in this publication, and so forth and show our message and our vision to the rest of the world, right. And for that reason, I feel like a lot of us don't take don't value, monetary, monetary incentive as much compared to being exposed until we really meet the man and says, like, Well, man, I can't really make money from this, you know, this is not working out. Photography is not a good profession and so forth. And I feel like that's when a lot of people kind of give up. So going back to the question is, you know, despite all the feeling of wanting to share our work, share our story to more people out there, how do we value ourselves and say, Well, I do want to share this, but I also need to eat or also need a roof to live in? And how do you connect that to so that photographers who listening right now, whether they want to do it full time as a hobby or part time know exactly how to value their work? And, and sell as well as you know, offer their work to? Basically, you know, anyone like the audience out there? Walid Azami  41:56   Yeah. Great question. Well, I went on, I lately have been going on a huge tangent about this. value yourself, because without your work, and it doesn't matter if you do landscape or or commercial or portraits or babies or weddings, what have you. You can't launch pretty much any industry without the work of a photographer. Okay? So it's just not going to work. You can't launch a world tour. Without the photos. I just like did something for Tiziano. Ferro, he's about to go huge in Europe, about to go on a major world tour. That's my photo. He released an album this last Friday, two days ago. That's my image. He's on Italian TV shows right now, with my images behind him. Amazon has massive billboards all over Italy, like building size ones that we can send you, you know, copies of those. That's my image. You can't do that without my work. Right. Now, let's talk about what about the personal photography, because not everyone wants to do commercial, you can't tell family history, you can't tell future generations that haven't even been born. If the photographer didn't push the button and perfectly frame people. That's your value. You can't sell your grandma's favourite recipes in your restaurant that you've been working over. And like, you put the kids to bed and you pay them and put them to bed and you feed them. And then you go and you work on this little by little perfecting the recipes. Without a photographer capturing those, the community will never know who you are, what the food looks like. That's photography, that is the value of what we do. Now. We, you need to charge for that. Because what you're doing is they're not doing you a favour by calling you you're doing them a favour by lending your talent. Now let's look at okay, if you said a large percentage of your audience is landscape photographers. Imagine just the way you can represent a geographic area, the way you can represent places that people will go to like the amount of landscape photographers I get jobs with, let's just say unique situations, tours, like wildlife tours, like boutique hotels that just like you can't dress something you can't sell an expensive home anymore. Without beautiful portraits on the wall. The image behind you is as beautiful nightscape with the Milky Way galaxy and all that that you want it to pay money for that and hang that up on your wall. I don't know if that's a wallpaper that's truly your living room. So I just realised that could be a wallpaper but that regardless, it's someone's living room. And it's like we do so much. And even if you do landscape like you're literally selling serenity, your selling piece somebody wants to pay for your art put it up on their wall in their living room. They want to stare at it. They want it to be in the background of home videos and photos and everything. like that they want that art to be a part of their Christmas dinners and Ramadan dinners and Hanukkah dinners and everything else, you have a tremendous amount of value. The problem is that somebody told you a long time ago, that you can't love what you do, and make money for it. And that is one of the most criminal things ever. And then to make it worse, you believe that to further make it worse, you choose to pass it on little by little by little by little complete bullshit. And if you think about it, you should be able to put food on your table, have money for retirement, a vacation, love what you do, and make an impact and enjoy a full time income from it. Because I would say this to any photographer. What if you hated your job? Like, what if you hated your job? And I don't want to disparage any occupations? I won't name anything. But we all would hate to do something, would you charge for it? And they always will say, Oh, yeah, for every minute that I'm there, I will charge for it. So why do you want to get paid? If you hate something? What? Why can't you love something and get paid for it too. But people like me, that are yourself, you know, like with this amazing podcast, we can share our stories with you, we could tell you that we're able to do it, we can tell you that we want to help you do it, like knowledge on us, but execution on you, you have to believe that you have value. And Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:35   that is incredible. I love a few things that you say but the one thing that really hits me is the fact that we do the things that we hate and we want to get paid for it. But when it's doing the things that we love, we don't seek as much and that why not? Yeah, interesting. Yeah. I love that. I love that. That is great. So, all right, so Okay, now, you gotta look at you, I suppose, you know, coming through what you just said that, you know, we have to kind of step back and realise, what is this false belief that we tell ourselves, you know what it was? Who told you a long time ago that you can make money from what you love? Which which what you said earlier right? Now, okay, let's say we find that right? Okay, I know, there was this time and then okay, it's not true. Based on you know, the story that you tell that it's very true, you know, without photography, without artistry, life is boring, right? Everything is just black and white. It's just a plain wall with nothing in it. Right? So yeah. So you value yourself you value or your art, your art. Now, the problem that I see a lot of photographers come across is that, okay? Well, you know what, I valued this an X amount of money, and then you go to other, you go to your customer and say, Well, this is an X amount of price, if you want to have this beautiful piece on your home, and they will go like, no, that's too expensive. I was like, I could get an X amount of dollar, which is, you know, probably like 10% of the I could only pay 10% of that from somewhere else and you know, get the same amount of a feel, for example, and I feel like that is one of the problem that we come across in this industry is that we're continuously being compared with something cheaper, and we that really take away our confidence, right before it's like, man, like, I feel like this worth $1,000. But this guy told me that, you know, he only willing to pay like maximum $200. And you know, you saw it somewhere else for $200. How do you overcome that? And yeah, like, how do you go from there? Walid Azami  49:02   Yeah, that's a solid question. So how you overcome that there's two things that's going on here. And number one, you have not fully expressed your value to your client. Now you never want to say I am valuable. No. They're they are saying to a particular person, I only want to pay $200 for this because in their mind, no, you say your 1000 but I think you're only worth 20% of that you are acting like a heavily discounted item. Okay? So a lot of this is psychology. And I'll talk about in I talked about this in my step Pricing course secret to easy photography, pricing, and it doesn't matter what kind of photography you do, we break down what kind of like how you present your prices, what to ask the clients. How to analyse a situation. If they say this, you say that you know all kinds of scripting and everything your market value and all that. So what I would say number one is determine your value, it should be high, and then portray that to the client. So one example would be, okay, here's an example. I will have a photoshoot on Tuesday. And the client was referred to me. She emailed me through my website, I got the email. And I said, amazing, I kind of vetted who this person was. And then I said, Would you be open to having a phone conversation? Because I don't really just give my numbers out to anybody. And she said, Sure. And we had a zoom call. And I, I asked the questions that I teach in my course. But I also asked these questions. Tell me about you tell me how you want people to feel. Tell me about the goal of these images? Why are you doing it? Why did you not like the other one? What did you like about the past? Shoot? And what did you not like about it? And I built this entire thing, because I can't price something for you, if I don't know what you want. I'm not I'm not a vending machine where I'm just like, here you go two bucks. And that's it. No, what we do is the photographers, you are luxury items, but sometimes you behave like a discount item. So pause a little bit slow down and really get to know them in the process. She said to me, while either I've never had a photographer, inquire this deep about what was important to me why I was doing the shoot. And it really, really made me think thank you so much. That right there. I didn't have to say, hey, hey, I have value. Nope, I just displayed that in the kind of work that I do. Now, for example, if let's just say there's a big Airbnb, let's just say it's a mansion. And they have a lot of property and they want to bring a landscape photographer to photograph for them. You can just say, Oh, I mean $1,200 For that, well, what a disservice. Or you can say, what kind of clients would be there? Okay, what kind of decor Do you have? Like, what's your colour theme? So we're doing more of an evening light? Are we doing morning? What would the mood be is like hard sun? Is it like foggy? Do we want it to be songbird? We want it to be cheery, like all these extra questions, right? That raises up your value because they're like, Oh, she or he is not like any other person that I've interviewed for this job. That's the first part. The second part is that poor people hang out with poor people, rich people hang out with rich people. Both are wonderful humans. However, if you keep serving the audience that says I know you're 1000 But only have $200. They have cousins who believe the same thing. They have neighbours who believe the same thing. They have friends and co workers who believe the same thing. You are going to get stuck in this. What is that thing of the ocean that goes in a circle? If you're weak swimmer, it's like a whatever. It's like it's not a title. It's a it pulls you out. And Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:10   I know what you are correct? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Walid Azami  53:12   yeah. So it's like this ripcord that keeps pulling you out. Or even like a hurricane, it just keeps spinning around throws you right back into the cheap people, the cheap people, the cheap people. Now, they deserve great photos too. But let that be someone else's problem. That's not your problem, dear listeners, okay. But if you decide to serve an audience that really values, the time, the expertise, your artistry, they hang out with people, they refer people to you, that have the same belief. So if you have clients being now I know, you're 1000, but I only have $200 $300, you are very much in the wrong circle. At that point, do everything you can to leave that little rip current that keeps pulling you in and go somewhere else. That's easier said than done. But oh, you know, like a really short cut way of saying it is okay. Where would your client hang out? Where would your perfect ideal client hang out? If you're doing let's say landscape photography, and you want to sell $1,000 for a massive print, I would really want to be at the wineries you know, and taking pictures out there and letting these people that can enjoy these these little weekend getaway vacations. See you with a camera and ask questions and see the work. Put yourself where they hang out. You don't want to go photograph outside of a Walmart parking lot. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:42   That is a great advice. And I love how you give a lot of example for people at different niche and I think that's really cool. speaks a lot about what you probably you know, teach in your course because I haven't taken it myself so I can't really say to it, but yeah, that's Walid Azami  54:59   kind of what And over these landscape photographers? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:03   No, it's really good. Because yeah, like, you know, you really bring it back, you know, your celebrate photographer, fashion portrait, but you really bring it back to like, you know that. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what sort of artists, you are the fundamentals the way you think is the same, right? And I feel like a lot of people get really caught up on that. It's like, well, yeah, like, you know, I don't know if that works for me, because I'm a landscape photographer. And like, well, I don't know, landscape photographers, are miniature photographers. And I feel like we we label ourselves. And instead of using that as a string, we actually use that as a weakness as an excuse. So I really love how you can merge all this together and say, Look, guys, it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what sort of artists you are, this still works. Right. So that is incredible. I love hearing that. And I'm sure the audience will get a lot of value for that. Now, one more question around around the pricing. Right. So excuse me, this is something that I also come across a lot. Is that okay? Well, while he, you know, it's really good advice. I agree with you, I need to get out of this, you know, current and retired and I need to go to where my customer. Right, right. But the problem that I have is that I need that money, I need that money to put my next meal on my table. Right? I need that money to, to pay for the rent for the electricity. I, I don't know, how long will it take to build, you know, all of this, right. And I know that that is one struggle that a lot of artists come through, they decide to bring their price down, they price down the price, the in hope to get that little money, just enough to pay whatever they need to pay. And I believe that is the origin of the belief that we are in that, you know, the broke artist mentality, basically. So what would you what would your advice? What would you what advice would you give to people who are thinking that way? And who are in that situation? Walid Azami  57:28   Sure, I think that that's important to say that is like the gateway to like, when it just starts spinning out of control faster and faster, and just keeps slipping out of your hand. And that's how you buy really cheap cameras, everybody from photographers who have given up and you buy it used, okay. But I will say this, I don't I wish I you know, that wouldn't be the case. But that's literally Hey, it becomes like a gravestone, or a graveyard of like people who gave up. Um, the one thing is, I will say this, if you're a photographer, I don't care what you photograph. Do not ever, ever charge hourly, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. In fact, when like in my step Pricing course, you also get like a year's worth, inside this private Facebook group. I have told them that if I find out because I will Snoop because I do care about my students, that if I see you guys charging hourly, you're out of the programme out? I don't like it. Absolutely not. So that first of all, please don't charge hourly, everybody. But what do you do? Well, I'll say this. Sometimes you just have to put food on the table. And that's your only choice. So you have to do what you have to do and take care of yourself and your family first. Assuming you have a tiny bit of a cushion, okay, you have a little bit of freedom to be able to try something new. I don't, I would much rather you go deliver food for people and get tips. Rather than take cheap clients. Because it's a very, very small industry. If you work in fashion, everyone knows each other. If you work in documentary, everyone knows each other. And all that once word gets out that you are the cheap photographer. Good luck trying to find your way back to the top. It's kind of like in high school. We knew the people who were a boy, okay, we knew the people who were easy. And you can hook up with them if you needed to. And you know, the people who were like, Nah, they're not that type of a person. It's doesn't mean it's right. But it happens. And word gets out so fast. Everyone knows, like, you might as well get like this, like this tag on your forehead that says easy, cheap, free photographer, whatever. So don't do. I'm just going to use just for round numbers. Let's just say you want to charge 1000 And please, everyone charged more than that. But let's just say you want to charge 1000 And you're like I'm just gonna grab these $200 jobs and pay the bill. I wouldn't much rather you go deliver food, go drive an Uber, because at least what you're, what you're doing is preserving your name and your brand in the market. Because once you're the cheap one, good luck coming up, it's nearly impossible. I would almost rather say rebrand yourself, get a whole different business name, or go to a different market, you can start high, and you can find reasons to come down. Maybe it's a Christmas special, maybe it's like, favourite clients type of special Valentine's Day. Okay, and I'll give you an example of how you can charge cheaper and still win. If that scares you don't care what you do. Now, this might be a little harder for landscape photographers. But portrait, family, babies, engagement, modelling, restaurants food, do something called mini sessions. And mini sessions are such a stealth way of so many benefits. Okay, so let's just say you have a goal of $1,000 per photoshoot, please, again, everyone aim higher, especially if you're in the United States. But your goal is $1,000 Who's going to trust you as a snoo photographer with their $1,000 as we're going into a recession, so but you still need to grow your portfolio, you still need to grow your network, you still need to make some money. So what I would do is do mini sessions, Hey, you want to do family portraits, great book out at a time in a day and go to a local park and make it special for them. Bring bottles of water, bring your little boombox speaker play music have like little kits of like hair and makeup and hairspray and like the things that people do for their shiny skin that dab that paper, whatever it might be, have it fun, have some snacks, everything, make it an experience, people love to pay a lot of money for experiences. But instead of booking one client in one day and saying okay, I barely got one for $1,000. And that's your whole day. Why don't you do a bunch of mini sessions $400 each $350 each. And instead of one client, you try to fit like five or six. And you actually end up making way more money. You ended up getting more practice as a newer photographer, because you don't have to manage somebody for like five hours, you haven't for 45 minutes, you have way more images in your portfolio, because you have all these different faces. And you get to benefit from these people who so if if you were to take my family photo for $1,000 you hope that I put you on Instagram and I tag you. But if you were to put like eight 910 families there, at least half of them are going to tag you, you're going to enjoy the benefits of their network and it starts growing. So invest in mini sessions. That also means that if they can't yet afford your full rate, and they can only pay the mini session rate, then what happens is they get a little sample. It's like an appetiser at a restaurant you get a little sample, and they will save up. They're like oh my god was such a fun experience. We should do like a half day with a photographer next time, or maybe a full day. And that's how you grow your business. So like a tactical thing that I would do that never charge hourly, ever, ever, and make it an experience too. But if someone doesn't want to pay, you're in the wrong audience, go get another job and treat that other non photography job as an investor. So I don't care if you don't want to drive people around in an Uber. You just say cool today I made $125 That's the Think of Uber as an investor in your company. And now you can start saying, Okay, I'm going to now go sit at the expensive coffee shops and edit my pictures there so I can run into rich people. You can also find yourself a rich husband or wife that way to podcast. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:18   That is great. I love that. I Walid Azami  1:04:19   love that how do people do it? How do people find their you know, their? Their sugar mama sugar daddy, they go to rich bars. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:28   That is funny. And yeah, that's that's what a great advice and you know, that's that's just I think that will open up a lot of objections, a lot of doubts that people have, and it just goes to show how much value keep on your course. Right. But one thing that I do, I'd like to kind of follow up on that. Is that, okay? You talk about this notion of okay, go to where your customer is. hang up your ideal customer, I should say, yeah, just your customer, you go to where your customer, your ideal customer hang out and appeal to them in a way that they want to be appealed to, right? Because that's, that's what like you can't I think one way that you were, you put it earlier, it's like you can't, you know, dress all hippie and go to a high end place and try to sell people at the high end place for example, correct, right, you harassed to kind of walk the talk and basically be become one of them or you know, relate to them. Now, one thing that I like to get your, your response on is, once you do that, there is still this one thing that is difficult to break, right? To be able to put your work out there is trust, right? Well, yeah, they may come to you. And then you might you may be the dress and you know, walk the talk and talk to talk or whatever it is. And you go like, well, you know, I'm here and this is, you know, I'm looking fancy. And, you know, I'm this sort of photographer, but they look at us like, Okay, well, you know, have you ever sell, you know, for example, an art with the high end price? Or, you know, what's, what's the value and so forth? Right? How do they trust you? If you just got out of this riktigt you know, and you move into this? The people who just want to bring you down and you know, ask for everything for nothing to this place where people actually value your work. Right? How do you get that trust? And how do you get them to invest on you, and your art? For the amount or the value that you value your art? Walid Azami  1:06:58   So, so that I fully I want to make sure I understand how do you get people to trust you with their money and their project and all that, right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:07:08   Correct. Oh, even if you if you just got out of this, like, you know, like, let's because you say earlier, like, leave this thing that like, keep asking for more but doesn't pay anything, you know, go find a different place. Exactly. Cheap town. Okay, we're going into a new city. So but you're nobody there. Right? You're nobody there. So how do you build that trust? How do you get that trust so that people invest on it? Because you know, that first person who believe in you really going to open up the doors, right? That yeah, gonna become your portfolio, they're gonna become your success story. But how do you get that first person to invest and belief in you? Walid Azami  1:07:49   Of course. Well, here's the thing, what I touched on a minute ago, which was many sessions, so you're new in a market and you're like, hey, normally I would charge let's say, $1,000 or $500. For this quick family Christmas card photoshoot? It's $150. Right? That's a fast way. And like a small investment for people to be able to give you a chance. That's the first one. And the second one. How do you get people to trust you as let them see your work? So walk with a camera? What like, like, people walk their dog, walk your camera, go to a coffee shop, put your camera right next to your laptop. Okay? Invite people for that. You know, they say like, Okay, if someone dresses very sexy, they're inviting. Eyes to like, look at them. If someone dresses very intimidating. They're inviting a judgement. So when you walk in, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying like, it happens right? When you like, it's kind of like the people that fly with their Louis Vuitton bags and like you are inviting theft for people to open your bags at the airport and start going through stuff. So when you go with a camera, you are inviting conversation. And people will ask, Oh, are you a photographer? No, I really have this giant thing for fun, you know, but and so. But people will talk and then they'll see. Get out of the house. Get out of as artists we hide in these little caves. Like as artists if you disappeared sometimes your friends and family may not know for three days that you have been kidnapped. Because we don't see the sun as much we sit in this corner and we stare at the monitor and we work and we work and we work get out and sit at a coffee shop. Go to a cafe and eat a little slower and do some work. Go somewhere. Go to a bookstore go like just be outside let people see you. If your ideal client let's say you're in a new year like okay, suddenly I'm the higher price photographer but what kind of photographer Are you? Are you As a family photographer, where do the families go? They you can be there too, and not be creepy about it, you know. So for example, let's say there's beautiful hiking trails by your house. And that's where people like to take their kids and their dog and they go, you go there too, and you take some beautiful photos, just enjoy nature be just be present. People will walk by, and you will start having conversations with people. Okay? So put yourself again, in the space that they want to be. The second thing is Wait, the exact question was, how do you get them to trust you is? Yeah, yeah, is word of mouth really, really is important. You know, nowadays, we can have the world's biggest stars say, Do you must buy this computer monitor? I don't care. I want to know what the photographer with 700 followers says about this monitor. That's what I really care about. So ask people in your life to help you. Most people. 1% are really terrible people, I will say this 99% of people are really good. They want to help you. They don't know how to help you. So they don't help you. Okay, so I'll say that one more time. 99% of people are really good. They want to help you. They don't know how to help you. So they don't. If you were to actually ask for

Hi Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another week of The Art of Photography Podcast.  José Ramos is a landscape photographer and psychiatrist based in Lisbon, Portugal. His photographic career began in 2004, with a body of work strongly focused on long exposure technique and storytelling. His images are multi-layered, starting with the immediate attention-grabbing landscapes bathed in exquisite light, moving to the symbolic detail of archetypical natural elements, and then completed with the written reflections accompanying each artwork. José divides his time between his artistic and medical career, strongly feeling that there is a creative synergy between both crafts, where the commonalities and differences of each discipline mutually enrich and foster his artworks. His photos have been featured in National Geographic printed editions and many other international photography magazines, exhibited in collective and individual shows, and sold as large format fine art prints and NFTs.   You can learn more about Jose: https://www.joseramos.com https://instagram.com/joseramosphotography https://twitter.com/jose_ramos https://linktr.ee/joseramosphotography Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.    ------------------ Transcription: Jose Ramos  0:00   summing up the purpose is to ever voice trying to convey the things that are important that I really want to share with others. We are all together in this so I think every one of us as kind of the duty I would say to try to enrich the world we are in and photography seems like a beautiful way to do it Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:29   Hey, wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and how photography have given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have someone who been very inspiring to his voice to me, as well as his photography, he take amazing sunset sunrise as well as photography in general. So today, we have Jose, hey, Jose, how you doing? Hi there, how are you? It's very good to be here. I'm pretty excited. And thank you for the invitation. Jose Ramos  1:03   And I greatly admire your work. I want to apologise to everyone because of my English. I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm doing my best. And I hope everyone understands me well. And so I'm pretty excited to be here today. And to have a conversation with you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:21   Oh, man, you're just too humble. Your English is perfect. Jose Ramos  1:26   Sometimes I struggle with words, I'm very used to my Portuguese, which has a very rich vocabulary. And sometimes I get a little bit lost with English, but I'm doing my best. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:37   Fair enough. Fair enough. So, you know, like, I've been following you for a while look at your photography, and they are just incredible. Like, you know, it really speak to you. Right? It really pops. But before we get into your photography, give us a little bit background about you know, who you are and how you come about photography. Jose Ramos  2:01   Okay, sure, I could give you the short version or the very long one. So I'll just try to find a balance not to bother our listeners. But I usually say that first of all, long before photography, I was passionate about nature. I was born in Portugal, in a small town in the south of Portugal. So we were quite used to go to nature, I used to do a lot of mountain biking, I always felt these instinctive needs to be in quiet places, beautiful places, forests, etc. And right from the beginning, I've always lived in nature. I didn't have any artistic background in my in my family, unfortunately. But I know that from quite early, I wanted to express myself and I wanted to use art in some way. I used to live literature, philosophy, spirituality. But then I got into music. Actually, as a rock band still in this small own town when I was still a teenager and heavy metal bands. We are we were kind of the outcasts in our town. But already had this need to, to express something. And I used to use music to do this. At the same time, I continued my ventures into nature with no artistic purpose. Then, when I was 18 years old, I had to go to college and I went to medical school in Lisbon. And I found myself all of a sudden, completely overwhelmed with 10s of things to study, and barely no time to devote to music. We used to play electric guitar. And I was really struggling with that because I needed an outlet. Medicine was extremely demanding 10s of mental work and not that much in terms of expression. And as if that wasn't enough, I was in a big town I was in Lisbon and contact with nature was greatly reduced. So it was absolutely everything. A big big angle over of both nature and creation. And my encounter with photography. It was extremely spontaneous. Digital Photography just became a thing. This was probably 18 years ago. Yeah, I'm now 14. This was 18 years ago, I was in the middle of my of my graduation. And I asked my parents to buy me to offer me a digital camera. It was a three megapixel compact camera, no artistic purpose at all. I just wanted it to be as small as possible. I didn't care about megapixels, anything like that. But the interesting thing is that when I got the camera, which I just wanted to capture some snapshots of my daily life, it just made me so starts looking for things that were special things that were beautiful and inspiring. And as soon as we, as I realised, I was starting to venture much more into nature than before I started capturing images. Still, I didn't have any artistic purpose in debt, but the images were just kept on my harddrive, I was starting to feel the pleasure of capturing the beauty that I was seeing and recording it with the camera. And that was until a friend of mine suggested me. This wasn't so long ago, 1817 years ago, to share some of my nature images on online. There were no there was no social media back then we already had photo communities. So I started posting in a website, which still exists today, which is DeviantArt. It had an absolutely incredible photo community back then, every one was there incredible artists. So I just accepted to put one or two terrible photos there. And I was extremely surprised with the community energy. I got comments, I commented on other people's photos, it was extremely clean in terms of energy, there was not the current vibe, numbers and everything else. So all of a sudden, I was finding the creative outlets, which joined both my my wish to express what I felt, and also my love for nature. So it was kind of a perfect combination. It replaced music, it became my favourite form of expression. And so I just got absolutely addicted to it. Then I entered my specialty in psychiatry, when I officially finished graduation. And things just kind of exploded from there. Because I got extremely even more fascinated with photography, when I learned about its power, not only for expression, but also for wellbeing for so many things. And then publications, exhibitions, photo tours, and social media and everything else started appearing. So I just found myself having to kind of divide my time between practising medicine and doing photography. So I just got fully addicted. And we are here today because I'm continue. I still continue to be addicted to photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:31   That's incredible, man. Like, this is why I love like, you know, this podcast because like, in just six minutes, I know you more than I would have, you know, following you for all this time. And so yeah, that is so cool. You used to play in a band. I used to be a drummer, actually. So, Jose Ramos  7:49   so that's awesome. What musical style may I make? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:54   I used to like a punk rock. That was okay. It's like cool. That's just like the blink 182 sort of a thing. But it's really interesting because you you say you used to like music, and then you kind of found photography and you shift across you still like music or kind of what makes photography take over from being able to express yourself through music instead? Jose Ramos  8:25   Yeah, that's a very, very interesting question. And I would give a superficial first answer, which would be convenience. And I'll explain why. Because most of the members of the bands, they actually also came to Lisbon to study. We were all 18 years old, and we tried several times to reunite the band and continue rehearsals. But the thing is that doing rehearsals in Lisbon is totally different from doing in our small hometown, where we were the garage of one of them, we just anqing we just hang out there, or virtually all afternoons. And in Lisbon, all of a sudden, we had to book a studio, we had to have a schedule, we had to pay, and we tried multiple times, and it just did not happen. So the thing is, all of a sudden photography gives me something that I love, which is my own space, my own silence my way of doing things of breathing, of taking my time. And even though I lost kind of the teamwork part of it, which is important. I gained a lot with photography. So firstly, it was convenience. But then I felt that I was gaining much more. expressing myself through photography, and the potential of sharing, communicating and discovering other people's work was incredibly it was more amplified. So that's why in a very smooth way photography replaced music in I live. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:00   That is awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And it's really interesting how you say that, you know, you can't have the superficial reason to start photography, but you get deeper and I feel like it's a common occurrence, you know, after like, interviewing over 45 people in my podcast, that's kind of what I see, you know, like most people start just just go on a holiday take photo, but they got really into deep on it. And it it seems like photography habits way to do that. Now, one thing that I'm interested in to hear from you is, you know, expressing your you say this notion about expressing yourself to photography, right? So how does that different between expressing yourself to photography versus expressing yourself in the music? Jose Ramos  11:00   Okay. First of all, I want to just a little compliment to you, because you mentioned that we've interviewed a lot, a lot of people, I was quite terrified when I saw all the big names you have already interviewed. So I congratulate you for that, because it's a very important thing that you are doing for photographers and, and also because I read your very interesting manifesto about the emotions that photography brings to our own lives, including some periods and when you have struggled, and you are clearly one of those that s photography need his life to express something in to get a deeper purpose and meaning. So I just wanted to congratulate you, first of all because of that, and it's good, because I listened to many of your podcasts. And yeah, you always seems to search for these common threads, that people are not doing photography just for the sake of it, which is quite important. So go into your question about expressing myself through music and through photography. Once again, photography was so much smoother and elegant for me than music. In music, you have the craft parts, you need to practice a lot, you need to be extremely obsessive. If you want to play well, you probably felt that we did drums, I don't know if you felt that as deep. Because it's a punk rock. And sometimes punk bands want to be more spontaneous. Our metal band was kind of technical. So it got kind of complex. So you were to spend hours and hours and hours practising scales and everything else. And I just hated it. Because I already had the discipline for the studies. And I wanted for the expression in arts to be something more effortless, more spontaneous. So expressing myself with music, it was extremely empowering. It felt extremely good. It was fantastic when we were playing together when we were giving concerts. But there's something deeper and more profound in artistic expression through photography for me, okay, so probably many people, mostly musicians will feel the opposite. But for me, the whole process, the slower thought process and creating process and the travelling and being in the middle of nature, and thinking about what you want to do. And all the time you have in the world to look at your images and try to understand what they're telling you and write about him. For me. It's a much much richer experience. So music is more like in your face. My visual filling is this one. I'm filling it right now. Please take hits, and you can go into the mosh pit right now insert at all. And photography is kind of a more, I would say existential craft. It's a slower one. And well I like it more right now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:13   Oh, amen. That is That is awesome. I love hearing that, you know. And I appreciate what you said earlier that you know, that's very kind of you. At the end of the day i i look for people who who have inspiring stories and one of the reason why I want you to be here is because the way you you tell story not only through your photography, but also through your words. So, you know, I don't just speak anyone who big have a big following. But you know that what you just said earlier just shows you know why I want you to be here because you really take meaningful approach to your photography right now, it's really interesting how you say that In music, you kind of have to work hard to get good at it. And then you become you burn out, right? You hated what you're doing, because you're just practising too hard. Now, when it comes, I mean, with anything in life, right? If you want to be good at it, you gotta learn. And then you got to practice. And I'm sure you've had a lot of practice a lot of trial and error with your photography as well. So how, how is that different with your experience in music? And what sort of advice you could give for people who are feeling that way, you know, who are feeling like, they've been at this photography for so long they practice and practice and practice and they hit a wall, and they just burn out? Jose Ramos  15:47   Yeah. It's also a great question. And I love this kind of interviews, not just the typical technical questions, I prefer these ones. Yeah, first of all, I didn't want to send out the message that for me, photography is absolutely easy, because it's not, I have already struggled a lot with photography, not in terms of creative block, because I have kind of a controversial opinion about that. I don't think that there's creative block when our subject that we capture is nature, which is something kind of endless, in its beauty and possibilities. But I think we can F inner blocks. So photography, it took me a long time to get to where I am right now. But it was not as hard and as tough as it used to be music because with music with the practice of the instrument when I was practising, I didn't feel like I was doing something inspiring. And when I'm learning photography, I'm in the middle of nature, or not closed inside my room, looking at nothing and trying for my fingers to move as they should. I'm in the middle of a beautiful forest, taking terrible photos, or in a seascape doing terrible photos, but I'm there. So the act of doing photography is just a small part of everything, just a small part of hiking, of looking at the sunset of chatting with friends while you are doing a walk sharing with your partner. So we just became extremely spontaneous, because I just loved everything about the process, not just the click of the button. But all the process was good right from the beginning. And just like you said, my first images were not satisfying at all. I'm one of the few that still has this whole portfolio online. If you go to my Deviantart, you can see my terrible photos from 18 years ago. And I think it's kind of a small legacy that I have just to show how terrible one can be in the past, and how one can kind of improve, but I still have a long way to go. So if someone feels stuck going to your main question. I would say and probably this is kind of related with my practice in psychiatry, and also with my notions of how photography can have meaning to you. I think that if you if you are genuine, when we're trying to really express something that's inside you, you need to have a purpose, you can just want to share the beauty of nature, this is a very deep purpose. It's not something superficial. But as long as you want to do something and reach something, I think you will always channel all your insight into it. So it will just appear people that are struggling, usually, they feel blocked, because there are some outside expectations from them. For them that kind of overwhelmed them. Beat numbers beat many beat survival beat anything. And all of a sudden, when you start being absolutely genuine towards your goals, your body will react Your body knows it. There's some sorts of this is controversial also, scientifically speaking, and I should only say scientific accurate things. But your body just signals, the stress, it signals the lack of genuine unity. And some people ever very natural talents to enter into some sort of false self state where they pretend to be something but most artists, they just can't do it. So if someone has a big, big creative block, I would mostly suggests for them to stop a little bit, turn out the noise of social media, the numbers, the competition the game and just think about what they want to bring to the table what they need to channel from the inside. And I think this makes a huge difference. Okay, it's easier said than done. But well, I think it's the best advice I can give now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:08   Wow, that is one whole lot of wise words in just few minutes. Yeah, listeners, if you, you know, you probably going to have to go through this few minutes over and over again, if you hit a roadblock or a mental block, because I think what you just say there really hits in the nail. And as you were just saying that I, I was I was, I was thinking about the time when I hit a burn out. And actually, you're right, at that time always Like, going up with the expectation to shoot something that is, you know, that is appealing to the social media mass, right, not really the thing that but not not really shooting for myself. So that's really interesting. I'm glad that you share that, because I think a lot of people might not realise that until either, you know, come across this, several podcasts talking, you know, with someone like you or actually being told. So, thanks for sharing that. And I'm glad I'm talking to you today for sure. Because I'm sure other people out there will draw inspiration from this. Now, Jose Ramos  21:25   it's my pleasure. And just sorry for interrupting you just a little bit because I just wanted to add something, which is probably also quite important to the people that might be listening to us. It's that I've also been there, I don't want to come across as the guy that knows it all that I'm the psychiatrist. So I'm protected for from all kinds of mental illness. I usually say this to my patients. In the middle of all medical specialties psychiatry, as the the most the most increased prevalence of mental illness problems, okay. So I just want to transmit that doctors also suffer, just like photographers and artists. And I've also been there I've been in the game number, I felt, I wouldn't say burnt out but and successful. And I remember plenty of times of trying to enter what I mentioned as kind of a false self state, where I wanted to emulate something or someone when every image at to be absolutely epic and bombastic. And it just doesn't work. Because that's not how we were, how we are wired. And it's extremely, it's extremely harmful for everyone. So I want people to know that I've also endured and struggled quite a lot with those kinds of feelings. Perhaps I had some extra tools to think about it. So I'm still finding my way, truth be set. I'm currently in the process of trying to reconceptualize many things that I've been doing this is mostly related with the controversial NFT space, which has some very good things along with it, but I'm also in the path. So I haven't found the solution at all. I'm just trying to learn how to protect myself as much as possible to make this path genuine. So that that's the main message. Sorry for interrupting, you can continue. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:30   No thanks for having that. I think that's really important to hear that, you know, even the best of us gone through all that. I feel like the social media have this notion that makes people who are in the social media looks perfect, right? But at the end of it, we are just human. Now, you say something really interesting, earlier about, you know, you go into this as well. And, you know, you have this this issue as well. But you know, like you say you are trained, right, you have the tools, but something that I realised from my own experience is when when we look at someone else we could, we could clearly see it, right? It's like oh, okay, you're, you're you're you're having this struggle, this challenge and you should you should do this a, b and c because you should show it from you see it from the outside. Now for ourselves, it's different because we are part of it, we are emotionally attached to the problem to whatever it is like you know, the survival method or sorry, the survival state that you mentioned, for example. So what is your advice to be able to take to be able to recognise your own state and to be able to give, take your own advice and actually implement it as if you are talking to us someone else, Jose Ramos  25:01   when once again another extremely challenging, but interesting question, the kinds of questions that I like. Because there's a reason why I said it's easier said than done. Because it's all extremely, I wouldn't say easy, but it's more comfortable when I'm sitting in the doctor's chair, and quite difficult when I'm on the other side. So that's why I said that I have some tools to help me navigate it. But that doesn't always make it easier. It's like, it's like diagnosing or treating someone from your family, you just don't do it. Because you aren't attached emotionally to this person, you cannot have lack of biases that will kind of contaminate your, your evaluation. So sometimes it's even harder for a psychiatrist to be suffering mentally, because it will start creating all sorts of theories, it will start triggering lots of alarms of what's going on with me, am I becoming a patient? Will I need medication, and then all the brain process to approach this sometimes becomes harder when it's related with ourselves. So the thing is, most of all, I always try to build back to what I mentioned before, which is the feeling that on your inside, you feel comfortable, you feel pleasure, while you're trading your art, you feel that there's some sort of narrative that is related with you, it's aligned with your goals, it's aligned with who you want to be in this very short life. It's aligned with what you want to transmit to other people. And it's only when I do this, and this is completely unrelated with psychiatry itself, it's only when I do it is that I probably get a little bit more grounded, and managed to look at things from the outsides. I also have some further tools, because I've been doing a lot of research about using psychedelics for treatment of psychiatric illness. And I tried to bring a lot of that also for my creative expression to my photography. And I mentioning this because in the end, we are all so immersed in our own selves in our rigid ways of thinking, in our rigid ways of feeling that when we get out of this huge bubble, and we look from the outside, it's so much easier to fix things. And this is achievable through therapy through medication through other means. But we can also do it ourselves, as long as we are not mentally Hill, as long as it's not absolutely uncontrollable, we can stop and look at our insight, we can meditate, we can think about what we're doing, once again, the purpose. So that's what I had to do with myself, I could not be my own psychiatrist, I had to be used, they're thinking about why it's just they're suffering so much, and what's wrong? And what kind of external forces are being toxic? And what did I want it to transmit with my time spent with art. So this was kind of the path that I was able to, to follow. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:32   Fantastic, thanks for sharing that and explaining that. Now. You mentioned something very interesting in the answer the the you know, you in order to get away from this, what they call it the burnout, you are focusing on your purpose, right? In photography. So share with us a little bit what is your purpose? What is photography to you, and why do you take them? Now I know in the beginning, you have an entirely different reason. But now you are here, and it gives you a lot of fulfilment. How does that do to you? Jose Ramos  29:13   Yeah. Well, photography, just like I told you before, I think I'm still in the middle of the path. I probably will never reach the end of the path because it's all about the journey. This sounds like a little bit of a cliche, but it's the absolute truth. But yeah, the the initial purpose it was just to capture spontaneous moments. And then all of a sudden it became a channel to to express things that weren't inside me. You could ask Why have I chosen nature? Why not go to portrait photography, street photography, documentary, photojournalism, etc. But just like I said, In the beginning, I've always been fascinated with nature. I think there's so much more More to nature than what's immediately apparent. And for me, images have a lot of layers. I know that someone that looks at my portfolio, if someone doesn't spend more than 30 seconds on my portfolio, like probably 99% of people do on social media, because it's everything is so quick and accelerated. But if people look at my portfolio, they'll see lots of Hi Candy, as I usually say, very captivating images, lots of colour, I'm not afraid at all to work with colour. And I know this is also a little bit controversial. But if people look at my images, they will see intense slide long exposure, immersive compositions, and people would think, okay, there's another guy just doing pretty nature images. And that said, let's move on, let's look at something else. But the thing is, be it with me or with any other photographer, his images will always have more layers. And when you stop to look at an image, when you look at the intent, when you look at the biography of the person, when you look at the purpose, you'll see that there's the immediate aspect of looking at it and being captivated. And when you grab someone's attention, and that person wants to spend some time trying to understand what you're doing, that person will see that there are more elements on the image, there are potential symbolisms in the image. And if the person the artist wants to write something about it, you will probably see that there's a story attached to it. So my meaning right now, my purpose is most of all, to grab those subjects, which are extremely important to me, and channelled him as well as possible through nature. I think photography gives me the privilege of being able to get someone's attention in a very beautiful and spontaneous way. And channel, something that is meaningful to me, it can be just the image, someone might choose not to read anything at all about it. And that's perfectly valid. Or it can go much further than that. So my purpose is to captivate to show how beautiful is the ecosystem we live in, and then try to pass the message regarding conservation, regarding mental health regarding purpose, meaning, relationship between mankind human kinds, and the planet we live in, not taking things for granted spirituality 10s of things that are very, very important to me. That's why I say I'm still in the middle of the path, because I can say that I have some kind of branding, and I hate this word branding. I think people should not need to emphasise branding at all, because they are so much more than a brand. But I'm kind of all over the place, conceptually speaking, and I'm trying to channel this message in a more effective way. But while this is a spontaneous conversation, and summing up the purpose, is to ever voice trying to convey the things that are important that I really want to share with others. We are all together in this. So I think every one of us has kind of the duty, I would say to try to enrich the world we are in. And photography seems like a beautiful way to do it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:35   What a beautiful word. Word that is Jose, I think what you say there on that last sentence, you know, to enrich the world, you know, whether it's through your photography, or music, or whatever it may be, you know, or simply just expressing yourself, I think that is an absolute important thing to do. So you know, what you said is just incredible about conservations and mental health. It's all the things that not always been talked about, but it's so important to focus on. Now, one thing that I want to ask you is going back to what you say, right? In order, we don't want to get caught in this numbers game about Instagram, or Twitter or whatever it may be right sales, whatnot. But at the same time, they are important, especially for artists who are doing it full time, right, because they are a way for them to get seen and to share the message. So one thing that I'm interested to hear your thought on is how do you find that balance? How can you focus on the numbers so that it can support you to do more Have what you love, instead of crushing your true purpose, or your initial purpose on why you want to do photography in the first place? Jose Ramos  35:11   Yeah, that that's very interesting. And I want to do another important disclaimer, which is my income also comes from photography. Unfortunately, in Portugal, doctors wages, they're not good at all. I know, this happens in a lot of countries. But we get lots of invitations to go work to the north of Europe and other countries. And there's absolutely no comparison in terms of income. So right now, I'm kind of splitting my time between photography and psychiatry, I'm doing private practice, only to have time for art. So it's like I care about it. I care about how people view my work, I care about income, I care about how to transform this also into business, and this is a business. So reaching that balance, once again, it's easier said than done. Because when you are really struggling to pay the bills, when you need to put food on the table, you just need to have the numbers, you need to have the exposure, you need to have the licencing you need to have the collaborations, and it can be extremely challenging. And the problem is that most of social media of the social media game, it kind of obeys to preconceived aesthetic notion of what's good, what's of what results, there's this great example of Instagram, Instagram kind of revolutionised, the way that photos should look. Before Instagram, it used to be the classical old school photography, landscape photography, with its strong colours, like I mentioned before, and then all of a sudden, you had a revolution, strongly attached to travel photography, and not to classical landscape photography, even though there's a strong overlap in this, but people who want it to survive, most of them had to adapt. Now the thing is, can you keep being genuine, while changing part of your outputs and your colours and your countries? And the way you edit your images? I think it's possible. I think there's always a balance, because as long as you have some further purpose, they're not just making money for the sake of it. I think it comes naturally. So the way I try to handle all of that is exactly by having something that I need to transmit to other people, and hoping that this resonates with enough people that will get me the much needed income, if that didn't happen. And sometimes I wonder what if I went full time. The main reason why I don't go full time, is because not only I love doing psychiatry, I also feel it's absolutely essential for the arts, just the way I feel that art is essential for my psychiatry. But if I went full time, and all of a sudden, I could not pay the bills, I would not have any problem at all to jump into something that would be a little more profitable, both in the photography field or in other areas, as long as I add enough time to continue being genuine, and creating my arts, because once you stop doing it, then I think it's kind of a rune. So it's probably a matter of balance. And even though I'm against the game number, I understand why it happens. I think we need to play it just don't be too caught up in it. Otherwise, if we all of a sudden start thinking that our value is fully placed in the numbers. That just means we lost contact with our insight, but I obviously like to have comments. I love to have exposure. I like to have followers, I like to be contacted by brands because it's kind of an extension that you are doing work that it's being noticed. But most of all I want the main purpose of being not just to be because people resonate with the message and the rest is kind of a bonus that spontaneously comes Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:28   that is really really good way of putting it and I love how you say, you know, the most important thing is about people resonate with your message and then everything else if that fits then it's good. If not, then it's okay sort of thing you know, well as you know, it's different compared to trying to please every single person out there. So I think that is a really good thing to to notice or to recognise when you are a photographer or anyone no matter as a matter of fact, right? It's never good trying to please everyone. Now, one thing that I am, I'd love to hear your thought on, you touch on photography community back then how genuine it was right. And in today's world, I feel like a lot of that genuinely, sort of disappear. It's more about like you say, you know, a numbers game, the exposure. More often than not, we interact with other accounts for the algorithm instead of for the genuine expression of our feeling towards the art. So one thing that I'm interested in is to hear your thoughts about how the community was before, and how do you feel the community is today? And what do you think we can do to make, you know, whatever we have today, a better place a better community a better interaction with each other. Jose Ramos  41:11   Okay, well, thinking about the community before. And using the example of sites like DeviantArt, like I mentioned, I was in another site, which was photo seek, which does not even exist anymore. It had a very interesting rating system where people had to write proper, thorough comments, detailed comments on each other's images that then would be voted by the community. And people who actually went through the effort to write meaningful critiques, they were benefited with this, because then they could post other comments, they could post their own photos. And the system kind of Fed itself in a very healthy way. The same happened with DeviantArt. Not with this ingenious system. But there was a big, big sense of community there were journaling there, there was journaling, there were very detailed comments, people established very meaningful relationships. There, there was already some kind of a draft of the numbers game, it existed, but it was not as focused as now because right now, it's kind of hectic and frantic, fast machine of media consumption. So when you have more time to look at things, we're not constantly being overwhelmed with stimuli. And social media sites are fully engineered to get not only your attention, but just your short attention, they don't want your long spent attention working because that means less viewing less ads, less profit. So regarding what we could do, I have a good example right now, which is a very controversial example. And you know that I'm going to bring this up, because we we kind of met also through Twitter, which is the NFT space, which, in the middle of all, its big toxicity, it brought something very interesting, which is once again, the focus on the message and the focus on the relationship between photographers, as a community that needs to support itself and beyond the same boat to have success as a wall as a whole, and the relationship with collectors. Because all of a sudden, I realised that mostly regarded with landscape photography. It's not a respected genre of photography. In the fine art gallery world, obviously, some people make it, but the big, big bucks, they are made with other styles of photography. And many people are realising through the democratic zation of the access to the NFT space, the collectors already sent traditional collectors, that landscape photography also has a place in these big gallery world in this big museum world. Where probably we can have a good balance between not being constantly exploited by Microstock, photography website, websites not being exploited by brands who want everything in exchange of not that much. Possibly, we have a place in this whole ecosystem of this all economic ecosystem where if we have a message, if we have something different, that we want to show to the world, perhaps we can have a sense of community, we can have time to interact with other photographers, artists collectors, and that will have the added bonus the Edit essential bonus of getting an income from this. So I would mostly love to see all the websites shifting from a perspective Have not just focused on quick profits and quick visualisation, but on taking the time to be with people and to be with art, obviously, this is wishful thinking, this is probably not going to happen. There's way too much money in all social media websites, probably the voice of the people can make itself heard. It's happening with all the backlash against reels on Instagram. And I think that's, it's good that it's happening. But I don't know how strong of a voice we can have to make that much of a difference. But at least we need to try. And I usually never did podcasts, I just love being this behind behind the camera. And I think that we need to start being a little bit more activists of our own craft, and of the place we deserve. In the global landscape, no pun intended, in the global landscape of the art world. To make things better, and to make interactions much better and out here, most of all, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:05   that was a good point, I must say. Yeah, that's, thanks for sharing your thoughts on that, it is quite interesting how to see your perspective on this whole, how everything kind of fit in, you know, with the NFT with the landscape photography, and with just other photography in general, I think that's, that's quite an interesting take that you have in there. So one thing that I want to get into is that, you know, you kind of do photography, and psychiatry, being psychiatrists at the same time. And I love how you say that, you each each one of them need each other, and each one of them support each other. Right. And I think that's, that's really interesting, because I can totally resonate with that right. Now. One thing that I I'm sure the audience would like to hear, right, a lot of them love photography, you know, a lot of photographer love photography, that's why they got into it. That's why they buy they buy, spend all their money on these really expensive things. Now. If there is a chance for them to, you know, earn back and just get a side income or whatnot, to be able to fund their next travel or to be able to upgrade their next camera. How based on your experience, how would you advise? How would you recommend them to look into being able to find those side incomes? Jose Ramos  47:50   Well, first of all, if I focus mostly on nature, photography, and landscape photography, looking at the overall situation of most photographers that I know, and I will say, unfortunately, once again, because I would love that landscape photography would be recognised as a type of art, which is worth by itself, in art by other kinds of side gigs. But most of all, as long as you have a good portfolio, as long as you are inspiring, as long as you know your way around editing, as long as you have good quality images to show, you have the classical photo tour route to follow, which is extremely profitable when when done, right. And it has a very interesting purpose specially for the people who live to teach. It's an absolutely beautiful way to practice photography. I'm more of the solitary kind of person that likes to have its own space to do his photography. But for people want to have a side income with their images, as long as they have good visibility. And there we go with the numbers game. If they have good visibility, if they establish meaningful contacts with people, they will probably start being invited to show them to show them those places to show them how they capture those images. And in a very spontaneous way, they will be able to get a good income from that. And even more important than that, even more important than the numbers, the good old technique of taking people to your website where you can show much more about who you are not be totally dependent on social media but use it as a way to channel people into your own place. The place that you were you chose the design you chose how you present yourself and you are not just someone else in the middle of 1 million trade photographers. And when you do that, you get the chance for them to subscribe potentially a newsletter and then all of a sudden we have this privilege access to show to these people. What you really like to do, what are your messages, what you can offer them, and in a very spontaneous way, as long as you put your art into everything, and assuming your artwork inspires other people, I think site income will always appear. The big question is if it's stable, and if it can become the main income, but getting side gigs, as long as you put some effort into it, I think it's, it's doable. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:32   Fantastic. That is great advice. And I want to segue to I know that, you know, you've your photo have been published in National geography in, in Spain, right. And, you know, first of all, congratulations, that That photo was incredible. Now, I know that for many photographers, that has been, you know, their dreams, including mine. Now, I'd love to just hear right while I have you here. What? How did you What are your journey to get your photo published with magazine like, NatGeo? And how, what advice would you give for someone who want to have their photo published with Nigeria? Jose Ramos  51:15   Okay? Before and i Unfortunately, once again, I'm always regretting things, it's kind of like a pattern, I need to analyse this as a psychiatrist. But I was going to say that unfortunately, I lost a huge opportunity to be noticed by NatGeo, which was their website, the your shot photographer, from NatGeo. And I didn't used to pay attention at all to it. And I know plenty of photographers that's kind of noticed by them, and add some sort of special place to not only publish in magazines worldwide, but also to be featured on their huge Instagram pages. So I missed that opportunity. And the way I got into NatGeo, was mostly, it was locally related. So there were these big groups. In both Portugal and Spain where people used to share their images, these groups were kind of scouted by the editorial team of Nachteile. And going towards the guidelines of Nachteile. I think they identified with some of my works, because NatGeo is still one of the few who once again, I know I'm constantly repeating myself, but they put lots of focus on the message. It's not just about 3d images, I would actually go as far as saying that most of my images, they are not natural or material, because they are usually I would say less edited less impactful. They want to be a little bit more immediately related with the perceived reality. And I usually like to give some artistic expression on my images. But some of them they possibly could potentially fit the magazine. And I think that it was along with the story along with the fact that I always put great effort into describing why that image was different white at some meaning, why I captured it, why the viewers can relate with it, that I got the first context to publish with them. And as soon as you get the first publication, then it becomes easier, you have just opened a communication channel. And right now I have the privilege that I can reach out to them when I think I have something different and relevant to show them like a photo of the volcano that I did, like the Milky Way over an Ancient Bridge in the south of Portugal, which has never been photographed before. When I have something that I think that brings value to readers, I contact them and ask them if they're interested in publishing it. If I started bombarding them with every image that I had, probably they would just block me and shut down our email contact. So it's I think it's mostly related with trafficking and adapting the message to the medium where we want to be published. And I also need to do another disclaimer, I've been featured on their visions of the earth section, which is just one single image with a small description. But I've never done editorial work for them because the work with lots of extremely talented photographers with a specific photo photographic purpose to show something and I didn't follow that path. But it's also another very valid pass to be able to be published there. So adapt what you're doing as long as it's genuine. Anyone identify with it to the place where you want to get published. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:01   fantastic advice, that is really good way to put you know how people can pursue that path. So thanks a lot for sharing that and congratulation to you. Now we are kind of coming into the last hour, you know, the one hour mark. And one thing that I always ask my guests in this podcast is that if there was one advice, whether it's photography or life advice that you would give to your younger self or to other people in general, what would that be? Jose Ramos  55:36   Okay, you save the toughest question for for for the end of the podcast. So let me just put my neuron my brain neurons firing and thinking about what could be potentially inspirational. But, well, taking from some of the things I've said during this podcast, I would tell and recommend people to first of all, look after their mental health. And I'm not saying this in that classical paternalistic style, of like, some cliche phrase, but most of all, feel comfortable when you are doing art, feel that there's something you are showing of yourself, which is genuine, and which is good towards others when you are trading your heart, your art, and most of all, don't get lost in the number game and value meaningful connections with people that will bring you way more satisfaction, if I could. And I've said before, during the podcast, that it's easier said than done. And I find myself also caught up in the game of numbers every now and then the main message, I would stream to myself and tell myself to stop looking at the numbers and establish meaningful artwork and meaningful connections. That's the most important and I think that will always bring something good, be it money being well being. I think it's the path to go to choose. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:11   That is a fantastic advice. Jose, thank you very much for sharing that. All right. Well, you know, it's been great talking to you. I love you know, just chatting with you. And I hope we get to meet in real life one day, Jose Ramos  57:26   that will happen we need to make sure that will happen. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:30   Yeah, let's go. So for people who want to learn more about you your story, your mission as well as your beautiful photography, what is the best way to connect with you? Jose Ramos  57:44   Okay, I think the easier way and just like I said before, it's kind of the, the the ideal starting point is to go to my website, which is www dot Josie Josie rammos.com I'm gonna say it in English and not in Portuguese. Or you can go to my Instagram page, which is Jo Jo's there Ramos photography or to Twitter, which is Josie underscore, Ramos. Okay, so these are the best places to find out about my work. And feel free to reach out if you search by Tracy, psychiatrist photographer from Portugal, you'll probably also find me on Google. So feel free to find me in any way you prefer. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:31   Fantastic. Thanks a lot for sharing that and don't worry listeners, you will get the link on the description. So if you are listening to this and you're not sure if it's Jose or Josie, you know, just go on the link you'll get you know exactly the exact link so that you know how to find him. Well, thank you very much for being here. Jose, that's how you say in Portuguese, isn't it? Jose Ramos  58:57   Actually not. It's juicy? Juicy. Okay. It's not easy to pronounce. So I was telling you I prefer to give the the English Americanized version or people would not probably translate it properly to the right characters. So it's using in Portuguese juicy. Is that Is that right? Yeah, that that's pretty pretty close. Oh, wow. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:24   I used to live in LA right. And all I have a lot of friends from Mexico and basically Latin America, but they think there's pronounced Jose. So it's different between Hispanic and Portuguese. Okay, well, that's good to know. But yeah, thanks a lot for being here. Thanks for sharing all of your wisdom as well as your story. And hopefully, listeners you can find a lot of wisdom, a lot of inspiration from not only the journey but the advice that juicy Is that? Jose Ramos  1:00:01   How almost I can say it's perfect? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:05   Yeah. All right, well, um, listeners, if you haven't subscribed yet, subscribe yet, make sure you hit the subscribe button. We'd love to hear your feedback. If you do enjoy this podcast and if you know other photographer who you'd love to have in this podcast, please reach out to me on my instagram or facebook, which is or Twitter, which is just at the weekend, and let me know who I should bring to to the podcast. But thank you very much for being here. I know, your time is important. And you have shared that time with me and I very much appreciate that. Jose Ramos  1:00:44   Thank you for my absolute pleasure. And thank you for the opportunity. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:49   All right, well, weekend, as always, I'll see you again next week. But for now, make sure that you keep shooting keep creating and don't forget to stay smiling. Until next time

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another episode of The Art of Photography Podcast. Today I am sharing a conversation I had with one of the best aurora chasers out there! Adrien Mauduit is a 33-year-old Science engineer, professional photographer, cinematographer as well as a science author. Born in France in 1989, he has always been passionate about nature, space, and the night sky. After completing his M. Sc. in Canada, he moved to Denmark to teach Science and Art. It is also where he encountered his first aurora.   Adrien found unconditional and unequivocal love for the mesmerizing phenomenon and bought his first camera to try and capture it. Since then, he's traveled to many countries within the auroral zone like Canada, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and Finland in search of the elusive Green Lady. Today, Adrien made his former hobby into a full-time job-based in Arctic Norway, where he permanently resides.   He now works relentlessly to produce innovative and educational media of our world under the night sky. Thanks to his scientific and artistic pedigree, Adrien always strives to bring the best quality into his work. His many years of experience chasing the aurora under harsh and inhospitable conditions allowed him to get worldwide recognition. Adrien's aurora and milky way still shots are particularly well known but his innovative Astro-timelapse sequences made him a pioneer in the nighttime documentary industry over recent years.    LINKS:    You can use my LinkTree where all my links are: https://linktr.ee/nightlightsfilms    LINKS (aurora):    - https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/  - https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/.html    Link to the photos that we discussed in the podcast: Photo of phoenix-shaped Aurora - https://www.instagram.com/p/CYZ-SvRMeb1/  Raindeer under the Aurora - https://www.instagram.com/p/CiixTHpsKdP/  Milky Way and Aurora in one frame - https://www.instagram.com/p/Cif33-DMvaF/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------  Transcription: Adrien Mauduit  0:00   You know, it's like oh my gosh it's useless to start now. No it's not. And if it brings something for you other than making money then definitely do it because for me that brings photography nice guy brings joy for me being alone with the elements when there's no sound outside no winds you know, you have the perfect pristine sky with I don't know, I would imagine a nice lake or a nice you know, still see where you get the reflection of the moon or the reflection of stars. Oh my goodness, there's no feeling beating that I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:44   Hey, wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey and how they found hope, purpose and happiness through their passion in photography. And today, I have a very special guest. I came across his work back in clubhouse a thing and he is a legend. When it comes to capturing the night sky. You know, the Aurora is and the Milky Way's In fact, I think he was the very his work was the very first photo that I saw the two in one frame as just that just blew me away. So Adrian, how's it going? I think you're tuning in from Norway. Right? Are you staying in Lofoten? Adrien Mauduit  1:28   Hey, good morning for me. Yeah, so I am talking to you from Arctic Norway. And right now is 9am. So just waking up from from a short night after chase of Aurora and but I'm so delighted, you know, to wake up early and to be talking to you and connecting with you here. i We have we met through through clubhouse during the pandemic. And I think that was, you know, a great way to really connect with people that maybe you might have missed out on other platforms. And you know, whose work are just, oh my gosh, I mean, I mean, your work as well is just so tremendous. And I'm so happy I found you. And so that we connect, but yeah, so you talked about Milky Way and Aurora. And actually now is the good time to see those two phenomena together. It is really the the only time of year where you can get the two lined up like this. We can expand a bit more on that afterwards if you want. But, uh, yeah, I'm so happy to be here. Thank Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:37   you for having me. That's awesome. Yeah, we're just gonna write right away straight off the bat giving a cliffhanger. So if you stay till the end, you will learn how to capture the real QA and the Aurora. That's I love it. But yeah, man, like I come across your photo, I come across you first of course, it's you came to the clubhouse, go through your photos, and it's just insane. You know, I don't, I don't think I've ever seen anyone dedicated to shoot, you know, Aurora, as much as you do. And it's just absolutely incredible. And one of the my favourite photos was when there's the reindeer and Aurora on the background, but we'll talk a little bit more about that a little bit later. Before we get, you know, we get to the nice and interesting part. I'd like you to introduce yourself and you know, share, share to the audience who you are. And for those who haven't come across yet. Where is the passion of chasing this, you know, Aurora rose and the night sky came from because we all know people like their sleeps and their rest, right? And you just say, you know, you had a short night to be here, but you don't look tired at all. So, so yeah, let us know. Adrien Mauduit  3:59   Sorry, you need to zoom in and look at my eyes, if you can see right there ready to read. But yeah, so who am I? So I am a 33 year old photographer from France. So originally, I'm French. But I actually haven't lived in France in Well, between, I would say 10 and 15 years. So it's been quite a long time. You know, my family is back in France, but I've been travelling and and I actually lived in several other countries. I've lived in, in Canada, Denmark, and now living in Norway. So you know, I've done a lot of a lot of travelling in different different countries. And so I live off of my photography I've been living off of my photography for about I would, I would say since 2017. So it's still quite recent. If you if you say so before that time it was more of a hobby that I picked up when I was Living in Denmark, I was working as a teacher, because originally I'm not a photographer. Like I haven't really, you know, been educated as a photographer at university. I was originally in the science departments. And so I earned a master's degree in environmental sciences. Which master degree thesis I finished in Canada, in Alberta actually, were funny enough, you could see Aurora, but back then I was just, you know, not educated enough. I mean, I, I knew about Aurora and and, you know, that was kind of like this dream to see Aurora, but I never really got to realise this dream. And, you know, so I, I really got the first connection with Aurora and astrophotography. When I was in Denmark, believe it or not, this is what started my photography journey, actually. So I changed career because of this one experience that I had in, in, in Denmark. So let me go back to it just just very briefly. So I was working at a school in Denmark and like a boarding school, and one of the one of the teachers around the the teachers lounge table. We were talking about, you know, our biggest dreams and, you know, our bucket list items. And I mentioned that I wanted to see the aurora, you know, so bad. And, you know, in my head, I thought about going to Iceland, going to Canada, Alaska, you know, very far away. Polar locations. Not really like, you know, I wouldn't even even imagine you could even see the aurora from so far south. And yet that teacher, that colleague told me, Oh, yeah, you know, I spent my nights because he was the cadet teacher. So he's used to spend his nights on the hills. And he told me, yeah, every once in a while, we get a display of auroras, you know, dipping down to the lower latitudes. And I was like, No way. You must be, you must be kidding me right now. No, no, no. So. So after watching, you know, several alert websites and everything, there was one night where there was a possibility. So I went to the beach, waited maybe for like five hours. He had, you know, he had said, you know, keep a nice, clear view towards the north have clear skies, no moon, if possible. And then wait. So I did. And, you know, I waited for six hours in the cold, didn't see anything. And I was like, No, you know, he must have been kidding me. You know, it must have been a joke. And on my way back to the car, I was, I still had the clear view towards the north, but I was just facing away from the beach. And the tree line in front of me, you know, I was just getting to the carpark the tree line in front of me just lit up. And, you know, in my head was like, well, there could be several things here at like, I don't know, like the, you know, a boat from you know, there were there weren't any cars or any roads. I was like, couldn't be a car. Could be like a big boat. Could be the moon could be I don't know. But sure enough, you know, I turned back to to check what it was an end. Oh, my goodness, this was this was the very first peek at the Aurora. And even though it's not as bright and as colourful as what I get now in Northern Norway above head, oh, my goodness, that was so out of this world, like something you had never seen. And when, you know, I mean, I've been brought up in the city. But you know, I've been fortunate enough to have a summer house in the countryside. So I know what normal and polluted or at least not that much light polluted. nightscape looks like, you know, the amount of light coming from this phenomenon is something that is completely stranger to like, anything else, you know, it's just so, so powerful. I mean, it's just like these pillars that sit on the northern horizon and lighting up the whole landscape. Almost casting a shadow on the ground is something otherworldly and that it's undescribable if you've never seen it, and so ever since, you know, ever since that experience, that adrenaline kick that comes when your aura explodes and I'm sure you can relate. It's just yeah, it's just what what you know, starting to patch started what started the passion about the Aurora and ever since I actually picked up my first camera the next day because I just wanted to capture it. You know? I've already captured so bad, but I was, you know, didn't know anything about photography. So I learned myself through YouTube tutorials, you know, being the field trials and errors. And I actually switched jobs because this was just you know, chasing, you're chasing the night sky become became a passion basically. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:22   That yeah, like, it's really hard to explain that feeling right when you for when you see the aurora, whether it's the first time or you know, however many times but I'd like you to try. How does that feeling? You know, for the audience never feel you who never seen it? Before? How does it feel to be able to be in this pristine dark sky? Seeing the sky dancing? Adrien Mauduit  10:56   So, first, for the audience, I think, you know, it's good to have, that's why I mentioned the dark sky reference, you know, knowing what, sort of like a typical dark sky looks like, you know, not the sky of you know, of a city, but being just maybe just outside of a city already, you know, it's I know, it's probably a bit light polluted. But it just gives you an idea of the amount of light of natural light, I would say, that's coming from the nice guy, you know, it's, it's not a lot, but it's still a little bit. So you can sort of make out a few things in the landscape, you know, at least in black and white. So, it's good to have a reference. And once you do, you, I think you can appreciate even more, how much how much brightness and how much light comes from this phenomenon. I mean, it's just particles bombarding the atmosphere, causing it to, to light up basically to to really produce light dancing light, just like a just like a neon light. Now, about the experience, I think, is just life changing. It just, it's groundbreaking, like it is something that unravels or that just how to describe it, it changes your view, I think on a lot of things, because again, that's, that's unlike anything you've ever seen. And one, when you have this connection to the dark sky, when you know what a dark, normal dark sky looks like, you know, it's not usual, you know, it's something that is almost alien, you know? So, it's just, personally I didn't, I didn't cry, maybe I shed a little tear. At the beginning, I just can't remember. But I know, you know, now that I've seen so many people react on the Aurora, we all have a different, a different reaction to the euro, some people cry some people just, you know, lay down, you know, they feel the need to lay down because not necessarily because it's overhead, but more because they it's almost like they feel the weight of this natural phenomenon. And they you know, they have no choice but to sit down or lay down and just appreciate almost almost like a I wouldn't say fear reaction, but you know, like, almost like, like a child when it's being grounded and like sits down and it just does nothing. That's the sort of like yeah, you just you're at a loss for words and some of the people just dance around shoutings you know, we all have I tend to be like this or I used to be like this actually more often, but not I'm taking photography and I'm alone I just try to enjoy the show. And just I think I just let my cameras run the time lapses I do a bit of real time filming, but I just watch all the time it's very important to also enjoy the show for yourself 100% Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:07   And you know it's one of the reason why I got into time lapse is because then I could take photo at the same time I could enjoy the scenery it's really nice that way but um, yeah, like so you know looking at your Instagram which is nights Night Night Lights films, you know it's just filled with this night shot right whether it's Aurora whether it's a Milky Way or meteor shower, so how often do you go out there and you know, chase this the night skies Adrien Mauduit  14:43   Okay, so every time that I that is that we have clear skies because I shouldn't mention we're I'm in a part of the world. So I live full time in Arctic Norway. And who says gold says, you know, clouds and condensation and precipitation, obviously. And so, the the window, the windows of opportunity, I think, are quite short and small in Norway, because we're also close to the sea. And we, you know, we get the influence from the Gulf Stream and from the sea. And we have a lot of cloud entry and, and stuff like that. So whenever the sky is clear, I just go out even if the, the the award activity is, is quite low, because then I can do Milky Way Believe it or not, Aurora is a form of is a good form of light pollution, but it's still light pollution. So whenever you know you would have you would have to do anything deep sky or you know, just Milky Way, you need to make sure the award is at the lowest because otherwise it outshines everything that just how much light, you know, comes out of the Aurora. And funnily enough, last night, I was, you know, I started the evening shooting the Milky Way, but I needed to stop the time lapse, almost halfway through because the Aurora just suddenly got a bit brighter, and that's enough to burn the whole, the whole sky is just, you know, the highlights were just burnt in the Aurora to expose nicely for the Milky Way. So I need to reduce the shutter speed and start a new. So that's just the way it is you need to you can never know what your A does. And, and so yeah, but to come back to your question, basically. So I chased your aura, most likely you're up. I do a bit of milky way here in Norway, but it mostly Aurora, throughout the Aurora season, which here spans from anywhere from, I think late August to the start of April. And then the rest of the year, I do some other types of work. I usually travel the world to take some time lapses in real time sequences that I licence to production companies. So I do different type of work during the winter. And during the summer, which I like as well. Because there is a lot as opposed to, you know, being sitting in an office and and doing the same type, like repetitive work over and over again. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:12   sounds horrible job there. And I don't know, it's I know. Hopefully, you know, the listeners can hear the sarcasm in there. But yeah, like, yeah, man, that's awesome, right? It's just like, I think it's really good. One of the things that I love about travelling is that change. So I know exactly how, you know, giving that change can help your creativity and how much you you have to stay in love with what you do, right? Because I think it's important, otherwise, things just get stagnant. And yeah, so all of this Alright, do you mostly shoot them in Norway? Or do you go to other parts of the world to chase these orders as well? Adrien Mauduit  18:03   So, yes, so I'm, you know, I decided to, to come to Norway, and to emigrate in Norway, because, or I should say, Northern Norway, because Norway is quite a long country from from south to north. So, you know, it almost, I always like to name Norway, because in my head, it's like the way to the North, in a way, you know, it's like it begins in the south, away from most of the Aurora, and then just make your way up north, you know, more than 1000 kilometres. And then you're there, you're at the polar circle, the Arctic Circle. And that's where you see most of the aurora in this zone of the world. So I decided to immigrate there, because obviously, this is the home of the Aurora. And we get a show. If it's clear, we get a shot every night, we get to see the aurora every single night, of course, in varying intensity and varying activity, but we still see the aurora every night if it's clear. But that being said, sometimes the Aurora dips way for the South. So when we have periods of increased what we call increased geomagnetic activity. So that's the the activity that's being created by the disturbances of the solar wind, and how the planet reacts to those disturbances. So that the consequences one of the consequences, the creation of the euro, obviously, but there are other consequences. But anyways, when this activity is higher, the best of the world activity actually migrates towards the equator. And how far how far towards the equator is dictated by many factors. So you can never really predict per se when that the best activity will end up in terms of location but And sometimes, you know, in the span of an hour, it can literally, it can literally travel, I would say, you know, five, between 500 and 1000 kilometres south. So obviously you can, it's not like you can take orbit by plane ticket, and just and just you know, last minute just fly to wherever you want. But I also travelled to other locations and other countries, for example, very often now as we're getting into more rural activity during the solar cycle, because we're arriving at a very interesting part of the solar cycle now, which is called the solar maximum, where the the, your activity is supposed to be more frequent. And more towards the equator as well. I tend to travel last year, I travelled several times to Finland and Sweden, for example. But I've chased your rora in Iceland and chased it in Canada. Afterwards, when I you know, I wanted to go back and see that for myself as well in Canada. And yes, we didn't Norway, Finland. And that's about it, I think, maybe, you know, nevermind, I chest a bit in the US as well. So several locations, I still have a few locations that I'd like to see. And especially that includes the the Southern Lights, never seen the southern lights. So being able to see the what we call the conjugate Aurora, because it's basically almost the same Aurora that's happening at the same time in the north in the South. I want to see it in the South as well. So southern southern hemisphere, obviously. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:39   Yeah, I mean, like those, this the South, the southern light is actually quite interesting. And I'm wondering what makes you want to see the Southern Lights, because they're, they almost look about the same compared to Northern Light in most cases. Adrien Mauduit  21:58   So there, there are several things, it's actually a very interesting question. And I think we're getting a bit more into detail here with your aura. So like I said, you know, when we get those bursts of auras, or these bursts of activity, they're generally speaking, the overall I will look almost exactly the same in the South and in the north, because it's just the way the aura is created. The particles, you know, they just, they're just channelled towards the channel towards suppose, almost, you know, at the same time, quite actually add the same time. And with the same sort of properties, but there are still a few differences. It's not like a mirror, a perfect mirror, there are some differences. And actually, the what we call the world oval, which is it at any time, it's just all the war happening at one pole, it looks like a doughnut shape. And that is actually a bit more active in the South for some reason, it has to do with the way the, the magnetic field of the Earth is, is made. And so it's a bit stronger at the south. And so the southern oval is usually slightly more active, and you will see slightly, maybe more colourful or brighter or as for the same, you know, same global show. So that's one of the reasons and the second reason is, you know, you can see the award, the southern lights, you can see them in countries where, you know, have always been on my bucket list, like this mania and New Zealand, Australia, and maybe perhaps Antarctica as well, I know, you know, you'd have to travel quite far inland to see the Southern Lights in Antarctica. But still, it's just, I just want to see it for myself, you know, even if it's the same, that's the cool thing with your whare you know, you asked me I think at the beginning, we talked about change in our, our job. And the raw is the definition of change because it's never the same it just from one name to another, you know, changes from one even from one minute to another, it changes shape, colours and stuff like that, in this case. So that's what makes it so interesting. You know, not two times this is going to be the same and you never know what you're gonna get. So that's what's so exciting. About the Aurora. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:35   Yeah, no 100% I think, you know, like, when you shoot Aurora, even with the same exact composition, there's always there's always different right? But let's say for example, if you shoot the Milky Way, like you are chasing the composition, because you know, if you should at the same time, you know, or roughly about the same time at the same location. It looks exactly the same. So yeah, that's that's, it's really cool, but alright, that way, but um, Australia, I didn't think. I mean, I know when there is the storm is really high, you can kind of see it in Australia, but it's really, really hard to see in Australia and my right, like, I think Manaea would be the best chance, right? But in the mainland Australia, it's a little bit too far north to be able to be like pillars and stuff. Adrien Mauduit  25:24   You'd be surprised, actually, I think to think it's Victoria in in Australia, they see Aurora much more often than then one would think. Because even when it's, you know, Tasmania in the Southern New Zealand, it's actually not that far. It's quite towards support, it's a, it would be the equivalent of, of like the Well, it depends across the states, obviously. But like, I couldn't give you an equivalent because the deal was crude, the, the oval is crooked. So it doesn't correspond to geographic latitude, unfortunately. So I couldn't give you a reference. But Tasmania in New Zealand, they're actually quite far towards the Aurora. And on very good shows, you know, they could see the aurora above head in certain Tasmania. And Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:24   so you're saying? So by the way, what Adrian was saying, it's like the oval where the Aurora is happening is not dial up, it's not exactly circular to the north or the south pole. So there is like a little bit oval. That's why they call it that makes sense, though, it's not a circle. So So what you're saying is that as menu and New Zealand is closer to the active part of the oval, is that what you're saying? Adrien Mauduit  26:52   That's exactly what I'm saying. While you know, travelling to Australia does make a difference, you know, I mean, you were, you're getting further away from the oval. There, there, there is still like a, quite a large part in the southern, I think, eastern part southeast part of Australia, where it's, it's quite possible to see your whare you know, albeit on the horizon, but still, you know, quite quite often actually, they see the aura, and they don't need like a big, big storm to actually start seeing pillars on the horizon, believe it or not, so, it's, I think it's a it's been a misconception. You know, not being able to see the aurora or thinking you're could never have the natural attitude. But if you're, you know, if you get into liking the Aurora and trying to chase it and really trying to understand when it happens and why that happens. I think you'll understand why the Aurora happens way more often than you think and way closer to you than you think. So, you know, obviously the best shows are where you're under the Aurora, but if you're not under the Aurora, you might be surprised to know, the Aurora is not that far away from you, as you think well in Valley unfortunately. You need you need such a powerful story. But you know, so, you know, talking to some people in the world, they might not even know they could see the award at their place without having the need to travel so I think it's nice for them to know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:34   ya know, 100% I think most people the biggest the biggest problem or challenges that most people have is that the city lights right. You live in the city you can hardly see the stars to start with, let alone auroras you know, when it's when it's too far away from the from the source itself. But like, you know, like, I mean, I've seen some of your shots where it was full moon and you could see the aurora and you know, some of them are accompanied by a bright city lights and all that stuff. So yeah, like if you're really go far north, you could really see it even with you know, a light around your horizon. And so like man, like you take so many Aurora shots, right? And it's been just like crazy. You know, when I first met you and just like I do not know anyone who take more or photos than you do is just incredible. So Unknown Speaker  29:35   out of those, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:36   what is your let's say, most memorable moment that you've captured a with the Aurora Adrien Mauduit  29:50   think you know when you when you take or photos when you take so much or photos and not I'm not saying that for? No I do. laughs so I don't know how just how many shots I've taken over my career so far. But I can tell you that a lot of shots and a lot of different sequences with a lot of different compositions and stuff like that. So I have a lot of favourite shots, per se, but I think the I think I'm hesitating right here, because you told me what you asked me the most memorable shot, correct? Yeah. So I think my most accomplished, accomplished shot was the reindeer that you, you mentioned. But to me, I mean, that's, that's a real accomplishment, because it's quite hard to take wildlife. If you're sharp wildlife, on, you know, in a night night photography altogether, regardless of whether there's a war or not, but it's very hard to take wildlife at night. But to me, I think the most memorable shot today should be I'm hesitating between two, actually, I think one is the Phoenix. It's, it's a picture that looks like a worthy war, it looks like a phoenix rising from the mountains. And that one was quite memorable, because that was one of those nights during the debt of what we call solar minimum, which is the lowest of solar activity. And for the audience, I remind the, I remind the audience that the sun is the source of the Aurora. So if you have low solar activity, you don't get a lot of auras. But at high latitudes, you still get, you know, the shows, even if the solar activity is, is low. And so that night, I remember that was a quite a warm night in November. Warm for me is about zero to five degrees Celsius, for the season, of course, but I think, for a lot of people, it's quite cold. And, you know, it was supposed to be cloudy, it was supposed to be it was supposed to be very low activity. And so I took my chances anyway, and I think it it's memorable for me, because, you know, it's like, all the elements are against you, you know, you go all against the odds, and you beat the odds going out in the field, you know, showing your persistence. Going anyways, you know, you know, you might not get anything, you might waste money, you might waste resources, time, you could have done something else you could have, I could have been more comfortable at home, you know, enjoying a meal. And yet, I said, No, I want to take my chances. And so I did, and I drove one hour to the fjords. And I hiked for about 30 minutes, the the, the, it was still cloudy, and they'll still be we're still super low in terms of activity. And then all of a sudden, everything cleared up magically. For some reason that I would, I could never, you know, I could never know, it, everything just lined up perfectly. And that's when, you know, the modal of photographers, you know, if you're not outside, you're not going to get anything, right, you need to be outside you need to be in the field to, to to get the shots otherwise, you know, you would never have known and that that that shot I think was represented that very, very well. And so everything cleared up. I set up my cameras and my my time lapses and actually that's that was one of those times where I actually set up the activity was so low that I shot at 20 sec next year, which it's you know a bit about photography, or night photography is the settings for you know, nice nice settings for Milky Way. Milky Way shots. And, yeah, that was one of those nights where, you know, we weren't supposed to be to get a lot of Aurora so I set up the milk for Milky Way. And again, when all of a sudden the Aurora just came out out of nowhere and very rapidly just brightened the whole the whole landscape and I had to reduce from 20 seconds to one second exposure to give you an idea of how bright that over that overall was. And so I pointed the camera towards whether you were I was getting super bright and was expanding over the sky and So, of course, a split second, this, this, the avora took the shape of a giant bird, or if I called it the Phoenix afterwards, because it just reminded me of, you know, the rise of the Phoenix. And that I think that was the most unique shape that I've ever gotten in terms of Aurora. And the whole story behind the shot, I think, is what makes it so memorable. Of course, I've, I've got so many stories throughout my career that shot was in 2018. So since then, you know, there are a lot of shots and a lot of stories. But I was at the very start of my overall chasing career all at the start, but I think, I guess in Norway, and so to me, that's something that, you know, I'm always talking about is, is this story because it just represents so well, you know, the hardship that you have to go through the also against yourself, because you know, you want to stay out inside, you're nice and comfy. And there is this, this passion inside still, that tells you no, I'm going out anyways, I want to see if I get something. And that's, you know, when when you know that I think you truly like something is that you don't it doesn't matter what what is what is outside of this fashion. You just go for it. So yeah, that's, that's I think that's my most memorable shot today. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:38   That's cool. Yeah. I mean, that story is so inspiring. You know, I think too many of us rely so much on the weather forecasts. And I feel like I don't know, if you agree I, you know, like, for the audience who listen as well, I don't know if you guys agree, and I'd like to actually get your take on this. But I feel like the Instagram culture or the social media culture, change that mindset, you know, we started photography, because we enjoy the journey going out there capturing, you know, a moment that we may or may not have, we may or may not going to experience, right. But along the way, this, this instant gratification, changed that whole mindset. And it's no longer about the journey, but the adventure, it's about the photo, right? Ah, I need to make sure that the cloud is, you know, burning, or I need to make sure that the sky is clear that the Aurora is blowing up, and you know, all this stuff just to get more likes. And I love hearing that story, right? Because that's what photography is all about, like, I don't know, anyone who started photography, because they want more likes on Instagram, like, you know, once people started photography, because they just want to capture and enjoy the moment. But along the way, we cannot forget that. And so yeah, like, thanks for sharing that man. Like, I, I know that feeling when you go against all the odds and the odds, just like, you know, beat itself and give you such an incredible what they call it. Like, reward right to remember by and it's not only it's not even about the photo, like you said, it's about that feeling of. So that's cool. Adrien Mauduit  38:35   I think it's, it's the whole package really, that comes with the photo. And funnily enough, I think you mentioned you just mentioned, you know, some people might start photography for because of Instagram and to get more likes, but I think they burn out quite easily and they get out of the this interest. Because they the purpose is quite shallow, you know, they do it as repetitive work or you know, as a job. And, you know, the minute it starts feeling like a job, like you have to go out to get content and, and to shoot for someone else. You don't shoot for yourself anymore. And I think that's where the passion disappears. And so, I think you mentioned it, it's probably one of the, the other pieces of advice I could give the audience's that. Try to avoid feeling like you have to post this photo you have to take this photo to post on social media. Take it for yourself first and keep it this way. Otherwise, yeah, the passion disappears and you don't, you don't want to, you know, you don't feel like you. You really want it comes from you, you know you there's this external desire to go outside and it's just not you. So keep that for yourself first. And then that's actually where the, the inspiration, you know, should come from because obviously we as photographers, we Do we compare to each other? Sorry, we compare ourselves to other photographers all the time. But the less you do that, the more it the more self oriented your photography journey is, I think the more self inspired it becomes. And I think that's where you start focusing on yourself first, and you start getting outside of the your comfort zone first. And then you start experimenting on new stuff that, you know, you haven't seen before, or stuff that would seem completely ridiculous to others, but then you try it, and then you post it. And I think a lot of people recognise that in my work is that I, yes, I, I have taken a few shots, you know, of famous places, and monuments and stuff like that even at night. But I'm more interested in interested in taking things that have never been done before. In all the like, whether it is a time lapse or single shot photography, I like to experiment a lot, taking, you know, out of focus, book a time lapse, which is very rarely done. And funnily enough, you know, a lot of the production companies love this kind of time lapses. And I think, you know, they, they saw the works first, and they contacted me to work with them because of this. So, and I think that, but I want to expand to take your time to expand a bit more on that afterwards. Because that was now I'm going towards a piece of advice I'm going to give at the end. So let's not get into that just yet. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:41   That's awesome. And thanks for mentioning that because I know exactly that feeling when you feel like you have to go out and shoot and actually had a burn out because of that. And that is also the reason where this podcast came from, you know, because I was like burning out and I want to hear what other people are going through. And most of the time, you know, it's not one year, it's not two year, it's usually more than that. Plus more of you know, get to where they are. So, you know, the overnight success that people see in the Instagram is never overnight, you know, they put all their heart and work behind it. Yeah, like that is an awesome, awesome advice. And I love that, you know, you kind of dive into that even deeper, to just share that insight. And I think that is really important. So I guess one of the thing that I'm interested in, and I'm sure that the audience will be would love to know as well is so used to be, you know, in a science kind of niche, and then your you had your master degree and all that stuff. You're a teacher, and suddenly, poof, you're a photographer, right? How does that? How does that thinking process as well as journey to transition over? Because you know, that one of the biggest preconception that most people say is that artists, you know, a starving artist. Mindset, right? So, so when you jump into the profession, people are gonna think you're crazy. You're an absolutely, you know, crazy to, to let go of your master's degree and all that stuff and jump into this starving industry. But how does that process go? And what makes if there? Is there any thing that makes all the difference that helps you to transition over? Adrien Mauduit  43:46   It's funny, you mentioned starving artists, because this is exactly where I was going. I think you you need to. Or at least that was the case for me. I I'm not sure if you need to so it's not isn't No, you know, no advice, but you need to make sacrifices, I think you need to, to be willing to be a starving artist for a while to start the journey, especially if you come from a background that, you know, I was a teacher, but I was at the beginning of my career. And I wanted to get into a PhD so I went to go further in my studies as well. So you know, it's like, you know, from one day to the other, you stop everything and you start something new and that's something that is that is quite scary. I'm not gonna lie to you. It's, you know, starting a new journey without having any mentor or any kind of support from anyone. Although some people didn't believe you know, and some people some some of members of my family pushed me and said, Yeah, you're quite talented. So you should probably do You should probably pursue it, you know, you don't have a lot of support from anything else, to be honest. It's just maybe, you know, you're lucky enough to have a grant you to search for grants. But basically, for me, I already own some cameras, which I was able to acquire during that, or thanks to the salary from my teaching position there in Denmark. But I realised, you know, if you are to start with a photography company, you need to buy everything from scratch, and you don't have any sort of support. And photography is expensive, as you know. And there's always this lens that you want, and is always this other piece of gear that you need. So that as quickly, too, you know, a lot of a lot of resources and time and money. So it's, it's difficult, and you need to be willing to make the sacrifice, you know, for a period of your time, dedicate yourself 100% at the expense of others, and at the expense of maybe love life and social life and stuff like that. I think that's a sacrifice that you need to be willing to make, at least nowadays, if you don't have already a name. And if you if you're really serious about this, this job, and you can see a few other stories in in, at least in the night, night, Sky photography, industry, you know, like ALAN WALLACE, or even even yourself, I mean, you said you were burning out, but I'm sure you've made a lot of sacrifices, when I see those pictures behind you here with the Milky Way. I know those are could be faraway locations, or I see also like a summit picture here. You need to be willing to also physically, you know, put yourself through danger and have like natural hazard to be able to take those unique shots and make a name of yourself in this oversaturated industry, let's, let's say the way it is, it's oversaturated. But it's not impossible. And that's another piece of advice, you know, that I have for the audience's that it might seem completely useless to stop now. Now that even you know, social media is getting crazy. Your Instagram is not working anymore. So, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, it's useless to start now. No, it's not. And if it brings something for you other than making money, then definitely do it. Because for me, that brings photography nice guy brings joy for me being alone with the elements when there's no sun outside, no winds, you know, you have the perfect pristine sky with I don't know, I would imagine a nice lake or a nice, you know, still see where you get the reflection of the moon or the refraction of stars. Oh, my goodness, there's no feeling beating that. I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:08   that is a great advice. And you know, like, I know that feeling 100% that just that really serene, pristine, you know, like, tranquil sort of feeling they just, ah, you know, like, it feels like nothing else matter, right? It's just like, you're in the moment. You're so in the moment that nothing else matters. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. So. So how, what are some of the things that you did in terms of earning money? And that you can? I suppose let me rephrase that. So how did you, you know, how did you earn from your photography? And how would you have done it differently? If an audience come to you and say, Hey, I'm thinking about, you know, doing this full time because I love it. I love the fulfilment, but I just don't know where you, you know where to start? What sort of direction or advice would you give them? Adrien Mauduit  49:09   So, I think having, you know, a sum that is dedicated, like, it's like a saving sum of money that is somewhere on an account. And that, of course, you don't touch for, I mean, you buy your gear, but you don't touch for anything else, then just like in case of emergency kind of package. That is advisable, because there's going to be a period where you're going to, you're going to and I think that's the same for a lot of deputing artists. There's a period of time at the beginning where you're going to put in way more efforts than you're going to get any return on investment, if that makes sense. So you're going to invest yourself much more than you're going to earn. And that that period of Time is frustrating because you don't see the product of your hard labour, right, you don't see the return on investment. And that's frustrating for a lot of people. And that might cause some people to stop at that stage. But that's exactly when, you know, everything looks, looks bleak. And like doom and gloom. That's exactly where you should actually double your efforts. Because you never know, what is, you know, in around the corner, I would say, that's exactly when I can actually share a little bit of how I ended up in Norway. So I started photography in 2016. Professionally, so I quit my job in Denmark, I had a bit of money on the side. And I wanted to sell prints first, because that's what everyone did. So I set up a Wix website, and I started making, you know, a little bit of money, really not much at all, not enough to live anyways. So I went back to France, I no shame in saying, I went back to my parents, and we've had my parents for about a year to help me, you know, in this journey, because rent was quite expensive. And, you know, I was I did, you know, some some job on the side as well, I, I was doing substituting teaching in at my dad's school, and, you know, during the night, I would go out. So it's like, this double life that you need to lead as well, you know, it's not like you're gonna earn, unless you're very smart, and, and smart enough, but I'm not that smart. So I didn't figure out a way to earn money completely from photography at first. And so I needed this side, income source or stream to help me survive the first years. And so after a year, I was like, you know, I was just about to give up, you know, it's like, Oh, I'm not seeing the return on investment. It's not worth my time, even though I love it. But so, I took this one last trip, I told myself, Okay, after a year, I don't make enough money, then I just continue my, my, into a PhD, right, or it was my teaching job. So I taking one last trip to Scandinavia to see the Orion maybe, hopefully to take some pictures, and some people will like it. I don't know. I didn't know what I was thinking. So went to a disco in Sweden, starting started shooting, shooting the Aurora. And that was a few days before the end of everything, basically, because after that trip, remember, I was gonna stop everything. And I was about to give up. And I received this email from Oh, sorry, this message on Facebook from the, the director of what is now the Aurora Borealis Observatory in, in Sydney island in Norway. And they said, Well, he said, I love your job, your your work I've been I've been watching your work for a while now. It's I think the quality is, it's awesome. You know, what, what would you how would you like to come and visit. So I did visit I did an extension of my trip did visit the observatory without any sort of saw, like second thoughts or without knowing what what they wanted. And so I visited the observatory, and long story short, he offered me a job, then, you know, based out of Norway, and perfect location for the war, I could do, I would earn money on the side enough to survive. And I could do photography as well on my start time. And to me, that was the perfect, perfect opportunity. And that's how I got started, I started making content. And from them, I was able to be visible on social media. And you know, that's the snowball effect afterwards, you know, you post and post and post and you start getting noticed. And then boom, you get, you know, collaborations, contracts and stuff like that. That's how your photography journey is. So if I have one piece of advice is when you think, you know, you're gonna, when you feel like you need to give up because you don't see any results. That's exactly when you should double down on your efforts. Because, you know, at least that that happened to me, but I know that happened to a lot of other people. That's exactly when, you know, for some reason, that's exactly when good things happen. So don't give up. And yes, you're the start of the journey is hard and full of hurdles and challenges. But you know, most most most people make it and if they presets and enough they make it for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:02   That's awesome that I think that is a really cool thing. Real cool advice there. Because, you know, cuz you mentioned a couple of things right first, you know, like, you need to put on the sacrifice and to make it in this turfing industry. But actually, we need to make that sacrifice on all of that, right? It doesn't matter what Startup you try what company you want to build, it's actually the same thing. So I think there is no different that. And the second thing is, you know, like, it's saturated. Yes, it is saturated, but only saturated for people who doesn't want to go the extra mile. And I think you know, like, when you when you talk about you have to make sacrifice and making those you know, wonderful kind of content. And just keep putting yourself out there until one day, you know, somebody notice it all or you know, have that saving, and just keep going keep going and double down on the times that you feel like you want to give up. I think that is a really good advice, because that's exactly why this. That's exactly how you make it in this saturated industry when you're willing to go the extra miles. And keep going when everyone else quit. So that's, that's a really good advice, Adrian, thanks for sharing that. Now. I know we're kind of going over time here a little bit. It's been really nice talking to you. And before we can I close this down. Since you know, I'd love you, I love to get you to share how can people forecast the Aurora? When when they visit North or South? Like, you know, and don't worry about the crazy science behind it just like some of a few practical things that they can do to increase their chance seeing that or because unlike most people, what most people think it's, it's always there, there is no season for it. Yes, there are some times of the year that are better to say it. But at the same time, it's like a rain right? It really rely a lot on the forecast. So based on your experience, what are some of the practical steps that you can suggest to our audience to better or to get their chance to see the aurora? Adrien Mauduit  57:29   Yeah, so that's, that's the $100 question, isn't it? Like when? When are we getting Aurora? Yeah, so without getting into too much, or too many details. So to increase your chances to see the aurora, I would say, you know, you mentioned that's exactly like rain, you know, the Aurora here happens all the time. But the rain, it doesn't rain all the time, right, you have periods of sun and periods of clouds, and rain. So it happens sporadically, but it does happen all the time, so very frequently. To maximise your chances to see the aurora, you need to make sure, I think that's the first piece of advice I would give to people is make sure you call me and I know it's it's expensive, you know, a lot of the locations up north are expensive, because it's so far away from everything. If you have the resources, try to go as long as possible. So for as many days as possible, because sometimes just one day makes the difference between not seeing anything, for example, like a three, three day stay, you know, you could be clouded out for three days, and you wouldn't see anything, regardless of the location, right? It does happen, those long periods of completely cloudy skies in the north, that happens all the time. But imagine if you booked an extra day and the last on the last day, it clears up and you get even if you get you don't get the best overall ratio in the world, you get to see the aurora. So I always tend to stay book, you know, one to three extra days, if you can allow it money wise and time wise. That definitely helps. Because as you know that the we're getting better at terrestrial weather forecasting, right. I mean, we've we had hundreds of, of years of records and we need our models are starting to be really, really accurate. Whether we complain or not, you know, because they're some of them may not be accurate, but space weather and Aurora. It's such a new science that our models and our forecasts are actually in their infancy as opposed to terrestrial weather. And we don't have that very precise instruments or those very precise instruments that can allow us to predict with certitude you know, I Uh, in an hour range or within minutes when the award is going to happen. So I couldn't tell you, per se, you know, if there was going to happen in one minute in an hour, but there are a few things that you could look at, to sort of maximise your chance to see the aurora. And that is to follow the, the first thought follow the people that the scientists in the fields, they believe it or not, they are on social media. And they can, they can actually give you great advice. And they, they, some of them, produce forecasts. But otherwise, honestly, there are a few websites or resources that you can, you can look at. And that is the NOAA Space Weather Prediction centre. website. And there is another one space weather live, I think those two. So NOAA, and oh, a Space Weather Prediction centre. And then space weather live.com are the two main resources that I would think, you know, predict pretty much everything from the Sun to the Aurora on Earth. So they have, let's say they have I wouldn't say foot, but they have, you know, they predict all those steps that come in between. So and they're quite clear as well. So yeah, those are the two, I think the two advice that I can give to people to maximise their chances. Also, make sure you you get to a location that is dark enough. So not within a city or if you're within a city, you need to be able to have guided tours that go outside of the city or to rent a car. And then you know, a bit of Moon is is okay with your work, especially if it's overhead that it's not that much of a problem. But it's it comes down to your preference, a lot of mood so full moon will hinder or mask out the faint of Aurora, whilst the bright Aurora, it doesn't matter with the moon, it just, you know, you can you can see anyways, but some people prefer no mood. So if you don't want any moon to hinder your view, then try to look at the moon calendar and to try to look at the facts. Also, don't only look at the moon calendar, because here the moon, believe it or not, behaves very differently as it does at the equator. Even it says the moon is I don't know, like 50% for the moon might not even show up the whole night. And that's just what happens in the north because of the course of objects in the sky. So check some apps for the course of the moon if you want or the the weather as well. But make sure the lack of advice is make sure you've had a time where your location is dark enough. By dark enough means I mean, at least nautical twilight. So nautical twilight is the part of the Twilight, where you start seeing the few the first Aurora the first strong a walrus. That's where you start making out the start. And of course darker than that is okay. That's what they find the quote unquote Aurora season at your location, which is which differs from location to another. So yeah, that's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:03:42   that's that's a really good tip. Yeah, I guess I'll clarify a bit like when Adrian was saying nautical twilight is what he meant is that light after the blue hour, I think so after a sunset, you know, the sunset, it goes to blue hour and then some other light and then go to another two nautical twilight, and then it go fully dark. So that happened before sunrise and after sunset. So that's what he meant. And I think, you know, a lot of people also need to appreciate in a place like Norway, for example, in some, some time of the year, you don't get any nighttime at all, isn't it? You don't even get any Twilight or blue hour, isn't it? Adrien Mauduit  1:04:31   Nope. So we we do get because of the we're so high in in the latitude that we're subject to the tilt of the earth much more than at the equator. And we can see this change quite dramatically as you pointed out with the course of objects in the sky throughout the seasons, and especially the sun's because for two months of the year in the summer at the heart of the summer, the work oriented towards The sun all the time, right that we were tilting towards the sun all the time. So we get the midnight sun and we obviously so that means we get the sun at midnight, although it's low on the horizon, but it's still, you know, it's quite weird. Start at midnight. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:16   Say it never actually sets. Adrien Mauduit  1:05:19   Nope, it never set. So it just it grazes gently the horizon, the northern horizon at midnight, and then it goes up again, at one two in the morning. And it goes up, it never sets, but it goes up in the sky again. So it gets brighter. That's so you get? Yeah, so you get different lights, you get to see the landscape hit by the lights from, from an angle where you could never see at other locations. You know, it's like in Valley, for example, your favourite location, your favourite COVID, as you say, behind you, yeah, it looks like a nice Cove by the beach, let's say, you know, it's quite stable in Valley because throughout the year, the sun, the sun does the course or the sun doesn't change that much in the sky. Try to imagine the sun. Most of the year, it doesn't hit that Cove. But then in the winter for somebody else, or in the summer, for some reason, at midnight, boom, you get the golden light from the sun. From there hitting the cove. It's like you're getting for landscape photography is just perfect, because you get to see things that you could never see otherwise. So it's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:06:30   Yeah, you get we get forever golden hour. How awesome is that? Right. It's cool. All right. Well, that's that's a really good advice. You know, I love that the two resources that you talk about? And I'll be sure to put it on the link as well. Yeah, they believe it or not, there are a lot of apps in the Apple Store. But don't trust them. Adrien Mauduit  1:06:56   Yeah, no, I, I think the app are quite misleading because they give you the raw data without I mean, some of them do explain what the raw data I mean, but they have it, a lot of the apps have it wrong, because they dumb it down so much, that they start making mistakes in their own explanation. And that's just not how the Aurora happens. It's very complicated. So, you know, you can you can download the app store free, most of them are free anyways. But don't really go with the app. And trust the people that are in the field, when you come to a location because they know the overall better. And they know how it behaves, which is probably not what the app says, say at the time anyway, so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:07:41   yeah. 100% and I think you know, what Adrian? Say was because like when I first started, I used to look at the app and go like whoa, KP seven I'd be like heading out, it's like, this is not KP said the thing that the app or most people don't understand is there's so many different small factor that affect that. So even at the lower KP you have a beat you have is to have chance to sit and you know, at a higher KP you might not see that at all. So and that's why Adrienne say Go follow the scientists because they will actually put all of this data in context so that you can make a better judgement. But yeah, thanks thanks for sharing that. And you know, if you have maybe like a couple of scientists that you recommend to follow do let me know and I'll put it on the link so that the audience can jump in and follow them as well. But also at the same time follow Adrian because when like really guys just go through his his Instagram and I mean you're blown away but find the one with the reindeer it is my favourite shot actually there is there three shots that are really love from your shot. The one that like like crazy love it is the reindeer. The second one is the Milky Way and the Aurora one like left to right. And the other one was the clouds at the crazy rainbow on the clouds. That's just insane. Like, I was like, damn, I want to see that. One day One day. Yeah, those Adrien Mauduit  1:09:16   are the things you want. Yeah, when there you will see. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:09:19   All right, well, Adrian, thank you very much for sparing your time teaching us auroras as well as sure sharing your journey and giving the audience practical advice that they can do to either you know, chase their passion or even just see the auroras now for those of the people who want to, you know, find out more about your work or work with you or even just one appreciate your work even more, what is the best way for them to find find find you. Adrien Mauduit  1:09:53   So I do have a mandatory website where we all we all have website as dovers So it's three W that night lights, films. So lights and films are plural.com. But, you know, nowadays it's more I mean, we can find people more on social media. So I'm all on all major platforms. I'm also on YouTube. And I used to be on Vimeo, but I just deleted Vimeo. But I do I do, I do video as well. So a lot on, you know, Facebook watch or YouTube as well. But I'm on Twitter, YouTube, I've always under the same name, Night Lights, films or night lights. And, but if you type my name, you would also find me on Google, I'm sure that that's what comes first. That's so that's where people usually find me and they contact me any place, whether it's on Facebook or Instagram, we're, you know, via email or something like that. quite responsive. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:11:07   fantastic. Yeah. He's, he's a great photographer and a great human being. So do follow him, get in touch with him. And I only say that, because you know, you've been with us for about an hour, but you know, I'm just kidding. No, he is. Awesome human being. But yeah, thank you very much, Adrian for being here, sharing all that knowledge. And with that being said, well, we can't hunters, hopefully you find a lot of value and enjoy that talk. Make sure you go to Adrian page, I guarantee that you will be blown away. So you know, if there is anything you get from this, you know, go and follow Him. And yeah, it'll make your life better, I can guarantee you Well, with that being say, let us know in the comment below. Give us a little bit review of whether or not you know what you think and what are some of the things that you want to hear in the future if you have if you have any artists that you want to hear their journey or whatnot. But thank you for being here. Thank you for tuning in. And I'll see you guys next week. Adrien Mauduit  1:12:18   Thank you for having me. Transcribed by https://otter.ai  

Hey Wicked Hunters, welcome back to another episode of the podcast.  This week we have a fellow photographer Kenneth LeRose, who put a lot of his passion into crafting one-of-a-kind photos. Living a nomadic life since 2017, he is a full-time photographer and educator, hosting dozens of group masterclass workshops and 1-on-1 photography adventure workshops every year all over the country. For him, photography isn't just about capturing an image. It's a free-flowing way to express my creative side using my camera as one of the main tools. As with many tools, there is much room to grow and become more in tune with your craft.  His passion lies just as much in sharing his skills, techniques and teachings as it does in guiding students to hone their own skills and/or discover what photography means to them. Another way he found photography inspired a creative side that he never knew was through writing. He writes poems alongside his photos which reflect the images, experiences and people along the way. Website: https://krlphotoworkshops.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/krl_photo/  Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/krl_photo/    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------- Outline:   We don't want to restrict ourselves when we're putting pressure on our own style. 0:00   What made you fall in love with landscape photography? 9:09   What is your workflow in photography? What is your source of inspiration? 14:10   Doing what you love and it transpires to your style. 20:30   The biggest challenges he's faced in his photography career. 28:59   Just because you're a good photographer doesn't necessarily mean you can market yourself. 36:37   How to create something different even from a place that's so popular. 40:34   How he got started in astrophotography. 44:34   Don't compare yourself to others, compare yourself. 53:57   It's all about perspective. 1:00:14   What goes into the process of becoming aware of the negative in our lives. 1:07:00 -------------- Transcription Kenneth LeRose  0:00   We don't want to restrict ourselves when, when we're putting this pressure emphasis on creating our own style because it's going to be created by doing what you love. And other people are going to take notice of it even if you don't notice it yourself. And so when you do try to cultivate and create your own style, and you're and you're consciously doing it that's when you could find yourself in a box and you don't want to ever find yourself in this creative box because it doesn't conform with what you think your style should be or what you think that people know you know you buy so I would love to see more people not put so much pressure on on feeling like they have to develop their own style and just just let it naturally evolve Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:52   Hey, Wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, with Stanley Aryanto where we share photographers journey, and we learn how they find hope, purpose and happiness through their photography. And today we have someone very special, someone who's a dear friend was good take amazing photograph, especially astrophotography, someone who I've admired for a long time. Canada's Lee rose that Kenny, how are you? Actually? Do I call you Kenny or Canada? It's kind of weird. Kenneth LeRose  1:25   Either one works. Yeah, man, what's going on? Get to get to see here. I can see I can see this handsome devil right now. But I don't think they can write because the pilots on the podcast? Yeah, they don't have the privilege of seeing, seeing him all smiles over there. But ya know, thank you for for inviting me on here. And you know, we've been chit chatting for a little bit before. But I actually have no idea what we're talking about here. Because we talked about a gazillion other things. So I'm interested to see kind of where this this podcast goes. And yeah, man, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:03   I think it's definitely gonna be interesting. You know, you have a really cool story behind you a lot of inspiration. And you're, you know, you, you do something else that's really cool, apart from your photography as an artist, which I'm not going to reveal right now. Because I want them to, you know, define it for themselves. And I think you know what that might be but, yeah, so first of all, man, how did you fell into the world of photography? You know, because, like, you were in a totally different, different world before, right. So just give us a little bit background. How did you fell into into the world of photography? Kenneth LeRose  2:46   Yeah, so I used to, let's say I'm, for many years, I was in front of the camera. So I worked as a as a model. And, you know, I spent a lot of time just just working with other photographers. And I always felt like there was always like, this age that I was like, Man, I can. I bet I could do a better job than like, a lot of the photographers that would photograph me but I never knew, you know, I didn't understand lighting. I didn't know how cameras worked. I just, I just felt like I had an eye for for, for photos. And so. So finally I was I was actually gifted a camera one year. And I decided to break it out. I was having a Christmas eve dinner at my house. And I decided to like finally break it out over I've had it for like two months at this point. I took it out. And my buddy bill you had he was fostering to two kids. And he had the two kids over there. And we had the Christmas tree. And so he was like, Oh, hey, let's get some pictures in front of the Christmas tree. And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, well, hold on. I have this have this fancy camera like I'm gonna, I'm gonna take these photos and like everyone brought out you know, broke out their iPhone. No, put that away. Like I got this covered guys, you know. So I grabbed this, this Canon 70 D. And I aimed my lens at these kids standing in front of the Christmas tree. And I snapped a photo in automatic and it looked like shit. It was they were backlit. There was no light in front of them. There was just it was I actually started to sweat. Like I could feel the perspiration underneath my shirt because I wasn't able to take like oh here just in case you know, these didn't come out like give me your photo. I'll snap a couple of years like knowing damn well that no matter what I do here, I have no clue how to take this photo. And at that point, I I knew that. It wasn't as easy as I thought it was going to be. So my my friend who lived in Vegas, he was also a photographer. I'd worked with him a bunch of times. So another half expect a, I was a bodybuilder for most of my adult life. So that's hence, like where the modelling came in. And, and so I worked with a lot of different photographers. And so this one is one photographer, he, he actually called me up and he said, Hey, my mom's flying out to where were we Vegas, flying out to Vegas, and I'm gonna be teaching her how to shoot portraits. And I was wondering if I could use you as a model? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. I'm like, can you actually teach me how to use my camera too. So it's like a perfect, perfect storm. I went over there. And I modelled for them, but I was able to, like be comfortable with asking a gazillion questions, right, because she was learning to, and I took this as an opportunity to learn so I, my, my goal at this point was to become like this premier fitness photographer, because I knew what it was like to be on the front end of the camera, like, I knew, when photographers would show me the back camera, they'd show me like, when they finally like, took a test shot that looked good, they'd show it like I knew what made people feel comfortable, because I knew it made me comfortable. So I started getting into fitness photography, and I really enjoyed it, I started shooting all my friends, like when I lived in Vegas, like all my friends were like Chippendales. strippers, you know, it was, it was a, it was a wild life. And, and, and I had access to like, all these, you know, beautiful people in, in, in that type of industry. So, so I was able to, to practice my craft, and start to make some money doing it. But as time progressed, I started to kind of fall out of love with with photographing people, because they just, I was just running into, like, so many people that wanted their bodies manipulated, or they had a lot of self confidence issues. And like, I loved photographing people and making them look, you know, look good. I thought everybody is like I do, I think everybody is beautiful in their own way. And, and, and but but some people didn't see it that way. And so so my girlfriend at the time was like, Hey, can you should you should photograph landscapes, and I just kind of like laughed at her. I'm like, why would I do that? It's, there's like, you ever drive down down some highway. And you see, like, these big mountains and you take your phone out as you're driving, and you and you snap a picture, and it just looks like a foothill. It's there's nothing impressive about that photo that you just took, like, that's what I thought landscape photography was. And so I was just like, No, no, like, I wouldn't do that. Thanks, babe. But now, it's so few months later, I find myself in San Francisco and I'm just walking on the beach. And long story short, I ended up taking these these really beautiful images of the Golden Gate Bridge and, and I got really, what Nalli understand were like pretty epic conditions with light and fog, and it just was absolutely stunning. And, and, and so I actually took a photo that looked like one of those really good landscape photographers would would take and, and that was the first time that I was like, Whoa, I could, I could do I could do this, like this looks good. And so I became obsessed with trying to find someone that did landscape photography. I didn't know anybody, everyone I knew did portraits. And that's why it was easy for me to learn that. And I just thought that if you're good with portraits, you'd be good at landscape photography, and everyone that I kept on asking, they knew nothing about landscape photography. And so I had to just just keep on like taking 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of photos I had no, I had no training and just my thought process was like, Oh, I just need more expensive gear and become better. And so I just kept on spending money on lenses. And I wish back then I wish that I knew that there was like, tutorials that you can purchase and mentorships and I wish that I knew that there was workshops that you could spend money on because I the hell I have money back then where I could have afforded to, to invest in my education, but instead I invested in just a bunch of gear that I had to later sell on Facebook marketplace because I had never used it. And so so that's kind of very long winded. Talk about how I got into photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:09   That's really cool. That's really cool to hear. I don't think I've heard that story by you taking a photo of that, you know, little kids in in with the with the Christmas trees in it. By the way if you just tune in it's odd way. I just realised what that sounds like if people just tuned in right there in that when you when you when you Yeah, I don't think I've heard of that story. So that's that's really cool. You know, I think a lot of us going through that, that stage that you know, we think that it's it's as easy as it seems, but it's not really as easy as it seems, you know, it's a lot of work. And you find find that the hard way yourself. So yeah, What made you fall in love with landscape photography? You know, I know you cannot tell the story on how you shifted from, from being a model and stuff like that. But what is it the things that really makes you fall in love with landscape? As as well as Astro photography, right? Because I think you do a lot a lot of astral photo in your portfolio as well. Kenneth LeRose  10:27   Yeah, I mean, what what made me fall in love with it was for one is nature like it, any excuse that you can get to get out and explore nature is well worth it. And before photography was just, you know, I wanted to go on, like a few hikes. And honestly, it was really to please my girlfriend at the time, because she loved going out into nature. So, so I was happy to, to go along, and we would just, we just explore places. But man photography gave like this new, new creative way to look at what is already beautiful, and to orchestrate it, and in a way that that isn't seen or heard or felt by anyone else. So you, you have this ability to, to unleash this creative energy and use it however you see fit. And, and interpret things through your lens. And so, so I fell in love with it. Because my whole life, I felt like I wanted to, I always wished I could sing, you don't want me to sing on your podcast, I promise you. And, you know, there's, there's a lot of there's a lot of like, I come from a very creative household, my grandfather worked for DC Comics, he was a colorist for many years. And he's just, he was just an amazing painter, and he was super creative. Like, I can go down the list, but every one of my family is like, pretty creative. And then there was me who I could manipulate my body. And that's about it, like I could, I could change my body fat percentage and build muscle and compete on a stage and, and that was like the extent of my creativity, like doesn't sound too, too exciting there. But I always craved another way to just like, unleash that creative side of me. And so, so photography was that outlet. And then it led to other things. Like I write poetry that goes with each of my photos. Now, every photo I publish on Instagram has a poem written specifically for it. So so that's something that that developed after photography. So the thing, the thing with creativity is, once once you start like, once you get that ball rolling, it just, it just, it just keeps going. And, and it just unlocks like all these different sides of you that you never really thought there or are just laid, laid dormant and you so so photography, now I feel I feel like an artist I feel creative. I'm, I have this new zest for for life and exploring, and this newfound admiration for nature. And it's allowed me to, to connect with nature just on a more spiritual side to you know, just just spending all that time alone because now I you know, I guess this is the part where we're you were talking about earlier where people will, we'll find out somewhere on the podcast, but I live as a nomad, I've lived on the road now for almost five years. And so to doing so you find yourself in a lot of situations alone. And who was it wasn't Wayne Dyer, you're, you're never lonely, if you love who you're with, right? That's so you know, loving oneself, that's, that's something that, that I think we we can all work on and, and being immersed in nature and, and living alone and travelling alone. And just being able to experience a lot of these places. Solo gives you the opportunity to work on those things. So I forgot the question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:10   I think he just answered that really well, you know, because it's really fun I use I didn't like nature as well. You know, I didn't like going on a hike, let alone waking up at night to go outside and take photos or two star days. But you know, photography really pushed me further and took me out to those worlds, right? It's just something about photography that teach you patience, teach you you know, that you can see beauty even on the most chaotic places, and I think that's what what we love about photography. You know, one thing that I'm interested in to know is your workflow in photography you know you have when I first come across your work in when when the first connect In lighthouse, it was clubhouse. Club has ages ago, it was like I was just like, man, you have this really distinct style and composition, right. And it's like the photo that you've taken, it's just really unique. Whether you the way you capture it the way you compensate, or the way you edit it. And what I would like to know from you is, what is your source of inspiration? What makes you you know, try to find those unique perspective? And how does that help you to become a photographer that is that have your own style, right? I mean, if we're talking about a lot of people talking about, yeah, you need to develop your own style, you definitely have that right. But what is that journey to get to where that style is like, Yep, this is my style. And I just love taking photo like that, or, you know, edited the way that is. Kenneth LeRose  16:07   I think this is a question that a lot of people ask themselves. And so I think this is a great question. It's really interesting that, you know, I hear this often that I have my own style, I have no idea what my own style is. I don't know what that looks like to other people. And so, so So I do, I think I have some answers to these questions. And I think, I think it's a really important question, I think it's a really important thing to reflect on, when you are in a position where, you know, you're coming into photography, you've been told that you've got to find a style, you have to, you know, you're told like, like, like, just just outstanding. So for those kind words about about my style, I have no freaking clue what he's talking about what that style looks like. But I can tell you, what I do really enjoy about photography. And I can tell you that whatever that style is, has transitioned. Because I love what I photograph. And so whatever that style is, that's, that's, that's been cultivated by doing what I absolutely love. And, and for me, it's capturing images that are not, are not like the general images that you see, shooting from the hip shooting eye level, those are things that I mean, sometimes sometimes there, there were the shots that, that are eye level and hip level, but I think looking at the world in a different perspective, I look at the world in a wide angle lens, that's how I see it. And, and when I'm, when I'm in a location that perhaps has been been photographed, frequently, then, you know, looking to see how I can capture it differently. And, and my big thing is, is composition is using wide angle distortion to fill up, fill up the frame with you know, whether it's flowers, or mud cracks or something, that distortion is going to accentuate whatever it is in the foreground. And I want those leading lines to lead you into the scene. So a lot of my images have this, this foreground element to them and really, really close to this are my goals. It's too close get rid of, of whatever scene that you're, you're putting together Yeah, it's, it's, um, and so so I think Kenny is really important when you are Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:32   sorry, can you just broke down there, you just have, you might just need to repeat the last bit, I think the last thing that you get that I got from you is talking about the leading line. Kenneth LeRose  18:42   Yeah, so So using, so I see the world in a wide angle. So using that distortion, and filling up the foreground with with, with sometimes small elements that appear super big because of that distortion you've got and it doesn't have to be focused act like I really like getting up in close and personal to, to these objects to where, you know, you've you've got that blurred foreground that layers into something that's in focus that layers into the mid ground that layers into into something, something further away. So for me, I'm constantly thinking about like, like, where's my viewer starting to look at and what is this going to look like? When I'm done? postprocessing? Am I going to put a different sky does this does this require a different sky? Am I going to accentuate the light? Where's the light coming from? Where's the shadows? Am I going to underexposed which the answer is always yes, because I under expose everything. But there's there's just you know, going back going back to the question, because again, it's a really important question. I think. I think we we don't want to restrict ourselves when when we're putting this pressure emphasis on creating our own style because it's going to be created by doing what you love, and other people are going to take notice of it even if you don't notice it yourself. And so when you do try to cultivate and create your own style, and you're and you're consciously doing it. That's when you can find yourself in a box. And you don't want to ever find yourself in this creative box because it doesn't conform with what you think your style should be, or what you think that people know. You know, you buy so. So yeah, I really love the question and I love I would love to see more people not put so much pressure on on feeling like they have to develop their own style and just just let it naturally evolve. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:29   Man, that's, that's a whole lot of wisdom right there. Thanks for sharing that Kenny. And one thing that I find very, very insightful from from what you just shared is that you say that, you know, you just doing what you love, and it transpires to your style, right? It's just, I think a lot of people trying so hard to look outside of themselves to define their photography, when the answer is within them. Like their their stars should be who they are, you know, what they love to do, you know, like, for example, you laugh you say yourself, you like to under expose everything. You know, I remember when when I was asking you this murderer to edit this photo, I still have it actually as as a cover of my calendar, actually. But yeah, I was like editing. And then I was like, What do you think? And he was like, Man, if I were you, I would like dark in that way. But I love Yes, I think that was the very first time I went really underexposed. And, you know, that really changed my perspectives in things, right. And I think that's what's really cool about hearing other people journey, seeing other people works is that you could open your box, just like what you say, and try different avenue and see how that fits in your whole art. And I think that's really cool. You know, that's it. Yeah. I love being able to see that. So yeah, so thanks for sharing that, you know, the source of inspiration and, but one of the thing that you mentioned earlier, so you sometimes you you swap up this the sky and look at the lights as well. So is our composite photography, something that you like you enjoy doing as well? Kenneth LeRose  22:30   Yeah, I'm, I really love all different types of photography, and I get, I get a sense of satisfaction from, from a single exposure from single stacked exposure from a blue flower, and to a blue pause, where the Milky Way would normally go to just like, I'm going to 10 different elements from different places that I shoot that night, I'm gonna stick them all together, and I'm just gonna have fun in Photoshop, and no one will even know. So I really, really enjoy all the different types. So or, you know, you just shoot like a, like a blue sky, and then you swap out a different sky for it, or you just shoot it like, man, everything has its place. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I lean towards any one of the above, like, I really, really just enjoy getting it all in camera in one shot. And then sometimes not just being creative with, with what you're seeing in the environment that's around you, you know, actually thinking about, like, man, these flowers need to be moved over a little bit, nature's not going to do it for me, but Photoshop can, you know, so so you can, you can kind of like, plan that, you know, and that's part of the creative journey, too is, is standing in a scene looking around and going, Man, this and this, if that lined up, that would be really, really cool. Like, it almost does, but I think I can make this work. And so you, you put together the pieces of the puzzle there and you make it work. And other times. Other times like it's a single image, you could absolutely alter it and composite it and make it just a little bit better. But But damn, I love that this is a single image. And I'm going to keep it like that because I because I just love it being a single image and that's that's how this needs to stay. And so yeah, man, I don't really gravitates it's just whatever feels fun. And, and, yeah, we can whatever direction. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:36   Yeah, I think that's really cool. You know, I mean, I don't do composite, but I have high respect for people who do who do composite and I think it's, it's an avenue. It's very similar to what we talked about earlier with styles like, I don't think anyone should restrict themselves to, you know, to one or the other. At the end of the day art is about creativity, right? I love hearing that. But so you are living in an Airstream, right? And I think it's something that's really cool. It's something that, you know, I always wanted to buy a caravan and just drive all over the world. And one day I will do it, you know, when I able to find money for it. But yeah, so So tell us a little bit about your experience being no bad off, you know, not having like a house that you need to go to where you can decide where you're gonna be this morning. And where are you going to be tonight? Well, and how does that either, like, help you or challenge you as a photographer? Kenneth LeRose  25:50   Yeah, man, boy, I could talk about Nomad life forever. You should definitely by the way, I hope that it sounds like you are but I hope sooner than later. You can, you can figure out that equation. Like, you know, this is this is a lifestyle that that is not for everyone. However, it is for everyone to experience just a piece of it at some point in their life. If you're listening to this podcast, you're you're probably interested in Nomad living to some degree because you do photography and we know that we know that, that being a landscape photographer, some of the advantages of living on the road is that you can spend extended time periods in one place you can really learn the terrain, you can kind of wait out for great conditions and, and, and just have that patience. Right. Before I before I moved into this Airstream, I again, like very, very relatable to most people is you set up a trip, that's five days, and you drive to that location and then you have to drive all the way home. You have to pass all these epic places that oh man, how great would it be to spend three days just right here, but But you have to get home right? Because you have people waiting on you, you've got a dog that wants to go home that's sick of sleeping in the car or whatever, whatever the case so, so being able to lug my home around wherever, wherever I want to go is is a huge advantage in in landscape photography. And it's something it's something that comes with a price you know, it's it's not all it's not all sunshine and roses in here because yeah, there's no running water there's no Wi Fi there's no showers are taken at the gym, sometimes weeks in between in between showers and sometimes it's dip in the lake sometimes it's and like That sounds awesome, right? That's like, man, that's the life like sign me up for that. When you do it for years and years, it's it kind of loses its novelty and and you know the idea of like sprawling out on the couch and bingeing on some on some Netflix or something for like a day or, or like just taking a shower when you want or bath or just going in the fridge and having an oven oh my god frozen pizzas. That sounds so great right now. So there's there's so much that you give up to live to live this type of lifestyle, but you know, you'll I also don't have an actual physical address. Like I don't have a home address. It's it's wherever I am, like, I've got a friend here in gold beach. That's like, you know, 40 minutes north of where I am right now. So I've been using his address to send like camera stuff here and like other brands sending stuff and so there's there's Yeah, man it's it's it's a different kind of lifestyle that I'm not sure how much longer I have that I can I can do it. But then the idea of of giving it up also scares the shit out of me. So I don't know, man. I don't know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:59   That's that's really cool, man. Like, I know, I know exactly how that feel. I know exactly how they're feeling. And that's exactly why I love like living in a car. When I was in Canada spent six months in at the back off Pathfinder. It's not even an Airstream it's not a campervan. It's literally we hide behind a freaking Pathfinder with all my massive languages because, you know, I when I moved to Canada, I brought like a bigger languages. But yeah, like, I live off a suitcase and a backpack and it's so liberating, knowing that I don't have to worry about you know, a house, I don't have to worry about, you know, all the other things that I need to go back to all I need to worry about is here with me today or right now. So I know exactly how you feel. But you're right, like, you know, it's having I mean, you're a bit fancier right because you got a microwave there. I saw it there but I didn't have a mic doesn't Kenneth LeRose  29:59   work right. I'm not, I'm not hooked up to, to, you know, shore power. So yeah, so I can't actually use it right now. It's that's not that's sitting in a casino parking lot. This is, you know, this is this is where my life I'm sleeping in a casino parking lot tonight. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:16   That's awesome. That's you know, that's that's always the challenge, right? Where are you going to sleep tonight like, where is where you can park your car and stuff like that, but it's so fun. And at the same time, it's so challenging. So that's very interesting, you know, like, you've, you've been doing it for a while now you come to a lot of challenges, but you enjoy it. And I think that's the hard thing about everything in life, you know, whether it's quitting your job or doing it as a hobby, or whatever it is, everything have a give and take, there's something good and something bad about it. Right? So when you look back to your journey, and how far you've come? What are some of the biggest challenges that you had to come across? Whether it is in photography, or business wise, or even mental health and mindset? That you feel like once you overcome this thing, it takes you to this, like, just new whole world that you know, you can you believe nothing is impossible? Is there ever anything in your life that kind of, you know, very prominent, or very important that that kind of, you know, that you had to go through to take you to the next level? Kenneth LeRose  31:41   So, let me I just want to let me see. So the question is, through my photography career, right, is there was there like an aha moment? Or? Or like in? Sorry, can you rephrase? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:03   So like, I guess what I'm looking for, or what I want to know is like, what are your biggest challenge you have in your photography journey? And, you know, chasing this lifestyle? That is not easy, right? Because we all have that one thing that stopping us, you know, to get, whether it's a mindset, whether it's our belief system, whether it's money, or whatever it may be, right, there must be that one or two things that we come across that stopping us from either believing in ourselves or continue pursuing what we want to pursue whatever that may be. Have you ever come across any experiences like Kenneth LeRose  32:45   that? Yeah, I think, I think the challenge with just just monetizing a passion, right, because for one, like you want to, you want the world to love photography, the way that you and, and, and I think, you know, someone who's someone who's a great teacher has great passion for what they do. And when you have great passion for something, sometimes you just assume like, like you, you just think that someone else should should just feel that same way about it. And then you get a reality, like a buddy, not everyone's as best as you are over this, okay? Some people are just just hobby and they, this is great pastime, this takes them away from work gives them something to do. And, and I can like jump back to when I was a personal trainer. And when I was when I was a bodybuilder and when I when I was competitive, like I was highly motivated. I, I I was a beast I had like everything I needed to do to on a competitive level, like I did, you know, like I did it to a tee it was I was I was highly motivated, I was very passionate about what I did. And so when I would train other people, and they would want to make changes, like I just assumed that they were as passionate to see changes as I was. And so, so I think some of the difficulties and some of like, the reality checks that that I had to get on the road is just that, like, not everyone is as passionate about this as you are and that's okay. Is it is completely okay to not but but just just understand that, you know, that's that was a tangent on the question of what to kind of revert back to, to what you ask them just like with the business part, I think, I think business for me has been been the most challenging is is, is monetizing your passion monetizing this craft. And, you know, for me, my passion lies in teaching like it always has no matter no matter what I've done in the past. Like, I want people to see things differently. I want them to feel different. I want them like whatever it is in life, whatever it is that I'm teaching them I want them to, to feel it, I want it to change their lives and, and through through monetizing it, like it's, it's hard charging people money to, to do that, like that's, that's something that I want to give for free but, but free doesn't keep gas in my rig and my wheels turning. So I've got to got to monetize it. And like, a lot of us creatives we're not we're not built for business. And so it's something that we've got to learn. And it's something, it's something challenging. And this is, you know, what we're being an entrepreneur, like, it's not just so easy, where, where you start taking pictures, you know, you create an Instagram, and then you say, Hey, everybody, you like my pictures I'm teaching now. So come do a workshop. And this is not, you know, it's not that easy. Like, you really have to market yourself, and you have to, you have to wear lots of different hats, and living on the road, like, you don't have the luxury of having this, this stable office environment like damn, I'm like, I'm like sitting in, in in a grocery. Like, for the last few weeks I've been, I've been sitting in a Starbucks in a grocery store, working every single day, you know, using the Wi Fi, like building out my website, building up my business and just doing doing what I need to do to plan for my future so that eventually I can afford to have a second residence that is not a tin can, that would be fantastic. So that's kind of what I'm working towards. So yeah, there's there's always, you know, there's always some challenges. But I think I think that that answers the question, and I hope that's interesting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:36   So, you know, like, I love hearing that, I think it's very true that, you know, just because it is our passion, not everyone necessarily can relate to that. And when it comes to business, that becomes a problem, you're very correct, right? Because at the end of the day, we want to teach something that other people can relate to, that people want by or when one sign up, right. So one of the things that you say, you know, like, that, I'm pretty sure resonate with a lot of people who are listening is like, just because they're a good photographer, or a good artist doesn't necessarily mean they can market themselves or self branding, or marketing and stuff like that. And I believe your your youth, you know, I'm not sure how far have you come, you know, from learning, but you have come a long way, right? You know, how to market yourself, you know, how to be self brand and stuff like that. So for those people who are listening right now, and who want to be able to, either, you know, sell their photography pursue a full time or part time or even just as a hobby. What advice do you have for them, of you know, how to learn marketing, learn branding, and all this stuff? Is there a different place that you recommend to go or different people or, you know, what would you do? If you were, if you were basically you know, when you were starting? Kenneth LeRose  38:15   That's a great question, man. When you get the answer to that, let me know. I would love to hear it. I don't I wouldn't consider myself a marketing guru. I think I'm just you know, I'm just I'm just someone that that that's trying to figure it out like everybody else you know, and trying to figure out what works and and you know, maybe some pointers I can give to someone listening that that is in the beginning stages is is really figured out like like what do you want to do? Do you want to sell prints Do you want to do you want to just show up to local Local Places and local fairs and sell sell your prints there and talk to people about your art and and most people have other jobs so it's not really about like monetizing their hobby and but if if you are looking to like transition and do this full time, like figure it out what it is that drives you to to love photography, and is it the teaching aspect? You want to make a million dollars selling prints? Do you want to sell digital prints? Do you want to sell NF T's Do you want to like what like there's so many different possible revenues. And, and just try and like dip your toes in as many as possible and figure out which ones are warm and which ones you like, and then and then start to put your focus on that. But but you've really got to start with just marketing yourself in a way that is attracts the people that you want, like whoever you're, whoever, your avatar, whoever the people are, that you're selling to, like those are the people that you want to keep in mind. So if you want to sell art, then you post photos and picture frames on Instagram and you let people know like hey look, these are in picture frames and I still RT and here's my website, and I'd love to sell you some, I'd love to put some on your wall, I'd love to, you know, talk about it talk about your passion doesn't have to be all polished, it can just, like just being your authentic self, people, people tend to just want to want to support those that that they really enjoy. And that better just like human, you know, because we're all just just human. So I don't know, be yourself and, and, and, yeah, figure out how to market when you do let me know. And then give me give me some pointers because I could use some help marketing over here. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:34   Oh, that's hilarious. But I love what you say that, you know, just figuring out who is your dream customer and, you know, speak to them. And I think one of the thing that I really love that you said earlier was like being authentic and everything doesn't get polished. It doesn't have to be polished up, right? Because I think as a creative, we get really perfectionist about our work because you know, we're really attached to it. But I think at the end of the day, you know, progress, not perfection, that's something that's that really, that could really change my mindset and change how I look at things. So thanks for sharing that Kenny. And that's a really good, that's a really good advice. So on a circle back to your photography, right? You said it earlier that you love taking photo of unique perspective, finding something that's different even on places that have been shot many, many times, right? So take us through what are the different techniques and the different things that other photographers can do, that our listeners can do to be able to create something different, something unique, even from a place that is so popular that get overshot. I know you do very well, you know, doing that, like, you know, you every time I look at your photo, it's like, kind of seen that spot before. And then I look at it, it's like, I know where that spot is. But you know, your the way you present your photography is just very, like, you know, out there, right, just stand out. It's so different. So, yeah, if you don't mind, you know, spilling some of that secret to our listeners. Kenneth LeRose  42:24   Yeah, I think I think what's what's going to differentiate your your photography from someone else's, is, once again, you know, I sound like a, like a broken record here. But it's foreground, man, it has everything to do to do with your foreground. And it's important how you're framing your shot and what's coming into each corner of your shot or going out of each corner of your shot. And those are things that that you want to be aware of. And you want to just take a moment to experience where you are. Be a spectator be you know, be present and and just take a look around and just have an internal conversation with yourself on what it is that you're seeing. How can I make this different? What is it? Oh, wow, there's flowers over there. Okay, there's a slight breeze I don't know if I want to do well, if there's a slight breeze, maybe I can get them blurred in the foreground. Man, if I get really close to those dead flowers that could look really really interesting with them blurred in the foreground, you wouldn't even tell it they're dead. You know, these are like the types of conversations that you want to have with yourself. And how can I do this differently? Like wow, you know what, there's there's a bunch of waves here and this is a lighthouse and I've never seen anybody shoot during blue hour like maybe I can shoot really really high ISO and get a monster wave right here with the lighthouse shining shining its light and you know there's there's just a lot of different things or like I know Stanley you know we love Astrophotography and and that's another way to put his spin. I mean there's so many of us out there now Astro photographers, but but there's still so many different things that you can do with the stars with with just just creating something a bit differently like think outside the box what can you do to make this a different feel a different vibe a different is it a different time of day that you need to photograph? And is it certain conditions that you're going to wait for? And all these all start with just this internal conversation with yourself and and really being thoughtful about where you're putting everything in the frame. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:34   That is really cool. I can never look at it that way you know, internal conversation. I think that's a really really good tips. You know? But yeah, like, like what you say I think it's really cool. Thanks for sharing, by the way like all that tips because like is really good way to look at different like the same place at the different at different time. Right because most of the time, you know, the the photo that we see in Instagram or in you know, trip guides or whatever it be like during the day or whatnot. So if you want to do something different, just do something differently, right. And I think that's a really cool idea to just go into a different time. And I think it's one of the reasons why I like astrophotography because, you know, not many places and spot in this world have been shot that way. Because most of us are, you know, most people are sleeping during the time we're out shooting, right? So that's one way Definitely to put something very different. Now, talking about astrophotography How did your astrophotography journey started because you show it talk about how you want it to be this like the best of the best at shooting, you know, models, and then he got into landscape. And then you know, now you're you're you love astrophotography you are you take beautiful, stunning photos of Astro photography, but what got you there and what makes you stay? Unknown Speaker  46:10   Yeah, so one day I was walking around the San Francisco area in between street lights looking up at the sky, trying to see the stars, you know, thinking that if I got away from the street lamp, you know, 30 feet this way that I would be able to get a good Astro. This is what I'm trying to get as I knew absolutely nothing about Astro and I was trying to capture for the first time. So then on my drive home from San Francisco because I was obsessed with trying to take pictures of the stars. I had no idea that it revolved you know, I had no idea light pollution would would in San Francisco was too much to photograph the stars. And so as I'm driving home from San Fran to Vegas, there's this exit called ZZ YYX. Whenever some crazy boondock like middle of nowhere, exit so I pull off of there because I'm sticking my head out the window and I'm staring up the sky and their stars. There's there's obviously no moon because I can see all the stars but I wasn't a conscious thought then wasn't thinking about whether the moon is up or not. And so I'm like, Oh my God, I need to pull over. So I finally see this eggs and I pull over and I like, hop over and there's like this fence and this person has like a green light outside their house. And I remember I called my girlfriend at the time and and I took a photo at like 400 ISO, because I was told to never go over 100 I so and so I started at 400 I saw a little like, oh my god, I see stars. And so I'm like, I'm gonna go 800 So I went 800 and then I'm like, Babe, I'm gonna go 1600 You know, she's getting all the play by play. Just like yeah, you go for it, baby, you get that 16 Not knowing at all at that home talk. Unknown Speaker  47:54   So I'm at 1600 I so like, I am breaking all the rules. I am 1600 or 16 times more than what my eyes should ever be. And I'm getting what is the Milky Way like I'm like, Oh my God, there's like these really bright parts in the sky. And, and no idea what I was looking at. I was not focused on the stars, but it didn't matter. I I photographed the Milky Way. And in a couple weeks later, a buddy of mine who, who was good at landscape photography, who had met in San Diego needed a Jeep to get somewhere and I had a jeep and he was like, Hey, you want to come here I can teach you how to shoot the stars. And you can give me a ride. They're like, okay, cool, do and so we went out there and, and oh boy. So my journey started with really, really saturated stars and really high clarity, like, bumped up to like probably 80 And that's, that's where my milkyway journey started. And then I wanted to just get better at it and I started hanging around with people that I guess I did I don't really remember much about like how it transitioned into I think I just started just thinking it was cool and just going out and shooting more and more and more and then I realised you can stack them for noise reduction. So the quality got better and just over time like I just my favourite time to shoot is during blue hour and I love like doing blue hour blends with with Milky Way and and yeah, so it's funny because I don't I didn't feel like I was transitioning into like this Astro photographer but but people started to just say oh, Kenny the Astro photographer. I'm like wait, no, I just I like taking pictures of the stars but I like taking pictures of everything. But now I've I've accepted that as as a compliment and and yes I am Kenny the Astro photographer amongst other but I love it and it's you know I track I do. Do a little bit of deep space and. And man it's just like I have a gazillion track shots of the Milky Way and I just, I can never have enough even though sometimes I'm just shooting the Milky Way, it doesn't matter, just polar aligning that stack that tracker and shooting all night long and just watching the same milky way that you always photograph just pop up on the back of the screen like there's nothing like nothing feels like that, you know, it's, it's incredible. We're capturing these lights that are that have been out for God, I I'm not even gonna sit here and bore you with a bunch of like facts that I don't really know much about. But I can tell you that the feeling I get when I'm photographing the night sky is is surreal and unlike anything else. And the difference is you have like, hours and hours of this epic light, right? Because we're always chasing epic light and whether it's like the morning lighter, or the sunset or you know that light lasts for 20 minutes, 40 minutes, 30 minutes, you know, depending on on what your conditions man Astro light like that those stars they last all night long sometimes if there's no moon cycle, so So there's just so much more more to photograph and there's a I think there's there's a bit of challenge in in composing foregrounds during those times, and I liked that challenge. And I know you you love light painting and and so there's so many different ways that that you can capture the night sky amongst like, foreground elements and, and lights and I don't know, man, it's just you see so many creative people out there that are doing like light. Not just like, but yeah, like the light painting but I mean, there's like, oh god that one is red cat. What's her name? Pam. She does like all these like crazy cool, like light painting around people out and Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:41   Eric painting. I think Unknown Speaker  51:43   no, no, it's a it's a lady read to read something. She's Damn, I can't believe I'm having a mental blank. Like, I like see your stuff pop up in my feed all the time. And like I love, it's not my style. Like, I'm not really interested in shooting that kind of stuff. But damn, I love seeing her work. I love seeing, seeing the creativity and oh man, there's just something special about about, about having the privilege to photograph the night sky. Like we're, we are we are also advocates for preserving our night sky. Like we're, we're part of that. Like, we are the people that that raise awareness for the light pollution to our skies that we're losing and, and so, you know, just to jump into a different thing with, with with light pollution. Like I think it's really important what we do. And we, we showcase the beauty of the night sky where people, people might live in light polluted areas, get to see their graphs, but, but more so we're, we're building a community of people that appreciate that. And the more people that actively appreciate the night sky, the easier will be to help us preserve that. And by preserving and means like, we're losing 2% of our night sky every year. And it affects wildlife, it affects animals affects plants, it affects it affects our sleeping patterns, it affects everything. And we're like, if we keep going at this rate, we're not going to be able to see the Milky Way in most places on earth. And maybe at some point, like, like nowhere, and that's scary to think that that we may be like the last generation to get these types of photos and although Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, we'll go down in history. Yeah, but But no, no, I want I want our future, you know, our future generations to be able to appreciate them the way that we have the way our ancestors have and so on and so forth. So So I think it's really important also to, to advocate for, for our knights guys and to to be a part of that change and being a part of that is just appreciating the the photographs that that people like Stanley and other Astro photographers take so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:57   Amen to that brother. Amen to that, you know, moving here to Indonesia just couldn't believe the amount of light people uses, you know, to light up the city arms just like you don't you know, blind you don't need that much light you know, like people would actually put like a stadium light on top of a tower. It's like wow, I just don't get it. You know, it's crazy man. It's It's so crazy. And you know, when I share my photo and stuff in to a lot of the my family and the local people here they like this must be fake because you can see things like this is like, well, if you go far enough from the lights, then you can write Yeah, man like I absolutely agree. You know, it's I think one of the things that I love about being a travel photographer, you know, being able to see different places and a different problem that they come across, right? I think one of the things, you know, when when you say that, we might be the last generation to be able to capture a photo like this, that just breaks my heart. And it goes the same way with like, all the glaciers and stuff like that, you know, they're, they're melting and, you know, not many people are aware of it, because they don't see it melted in their front eyes, right in with their own eyes. So, yeah, it's, it's good that, you know, your, your spread is kind of awareness and, you know, spread it to, to more and more people and, you know, to appreciate the night sky, you know, I think we are very passionate about the night sky and the Milky Way. And they are a beautiful, beautiful thing to see, or take photo of. So if we lose that we lose a whole one, massive, massive treasure. So thanks a lot for you know, doing that Kenny, and, you know, for advocating for the Knights a nice guy. Now, we're just coming to the end of our podcast, and is one thing that I always asked my podcast guests, if there was one advice that you could give either your earlier self or you know, the listener who haven't gone through it yet, whether it's photography, or life, or whatever it may be, what would that advice be? Unknown Speaker  56:28   I could say what, like Burts first pops into my head, it's gonna sound bad, but be careful who you go into business with? Don't go into business with your best friends. And if you do get it all in writing. Yeah, that would definitely be something that, that I would have to tell tell my earlier self, I'm in the process of rebranding and, and, and revamping my, my whole structure of a business. And I think I think that's really important to, to note that, that just because they're your best friend doesn't mean that, that, you know, it's going to go anyway. I won't go too far into that. But But yeah, I think I think it's really important. With business also, also. You know, too, I think this, you know, part of me is going to be talking to myself, talking to myself, but I don't feel like I fall under this category. Too much. But I see it too often, where I think it's something notable that don't compare yourself to people. And I know like, that sounds like yeah, okay, great. That's, that's super cliche. Great, easier said than done. But I swear to you, don't compare yourself to others, because you are not somebody else, and your work will never look like theirs. And you know, you're probably being harder on yourself, than then you need to be like, you've got to respect where you are in your journey. And you have to appreciate what you have created and accomplished. And this is, dude, I'm telling you, like, I from the bottom of my heart like that is that is so important for people to hear. But but not just here, but like, but like, really, really hear that, that it's not your man, you know, I just see too often, especially artists, like they're just comparing themselves. And, and a lot of these like, the clout of like Instagram and things like oh, man, that person is getting 4000 likes on their, on their reel and I'm getting, you know, your 26 likes on mine. And my stuff's way cooler. Well, well, great. That's, you know, you first off know, you're comparing, you know, nobody's you know, they've got a better algorithm, like there's so many other things that that come into play and, and it doesn't matter how many likes you have on something, your work is still the same whether you have 600 million followers or 600 followers, your work is exactly the same, it doesn't change, it doesn't change who you are, it doesn't change what your work looks like. It's and and just man, I think, I think that's super important. And I really tried to try to go down a path where, where I am not comparing and if I am comparing them comparing notes, and comparing so that I can become better so that I can see like, wow, this is working for someone. Let me dissect it. Let me see. And it's not to put my own work down. It's not it's not to say one is better than the other because it's so subjective. Like this is art. This is somebody's gonna love, love my work and then think Stanley's is like what you know, And then it's gonna be the other way around like, like Stanley's like the Holy Grail of astrophotography. And this canny guy just can't get it right? You know, so so it's, it doesn't change, my work is still gonna look the same. And Stanley, this is still gonna look the same. It's just different perspective, and you can't please everyone. And that's, that's my rant, I don't really have anything more than that, except, like, please people, please don't compare, don't compare yourself to others. It's only it's unless you're doing it to compare notes and to see how you can you can build yourself up and, and maybe make fine tunes and find, you know, find yourself and change. That's, that's kind of my way. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:39   So, yeah, man, I think that's awesome. I think it's good that you brought that up, you know, both points for sure. I think a lot of us look at other people, and then bring our self down, and like what you say, you should never do that, because your work doesn't change regardless, you know, whatever happened to it, right. And I think I like how you say, like, you know, it's all about perspective, it's all about, you know, art is about perspective is about, you know, just because you other people like that one doesn't mean the next person gonna like it, because it's never gonna go, it's never gonna be good enough. And it's, it's always going to be good enough, it's just a matter of the person who look at it. So, man, that's, I think that's a really, really good advice. You know, I, I must, I must be honest, that, you know, sometimes I go through that times where I start comparing and, you know, I kind of have to take that step back, and like, remind myself that it's like, okay, you know, these are the things that you can do, or to look to, to, to as an inspiration to take that further. So I think that's really cool how you say, you know, compare it compared to notes, like, take the inspiration and think about how that can help you? Well, Unknown Speaker  1:02:01   what is it real quick, I just want to know, what is it that triggers you to fall under, under that like, like, like, what is it, that, that makes you makes you fall under that mentality? And to and to think and, and like, compare, you know, because I think it's important to like, dive into just the psyche, because, you know, it's it, it unfortunately, can be a natural reaction and place for you to go. And it's something that is important to train yourself to, to not go there. And so I'm curious, like, even you who, like, you're standing there going, I know, I know, damn. Even even sometimes. So, you know, even sometimes I fall into it. So what's the trigger? Like? Like, why? Why do you? Why do you fall into there? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:49   Well, it's, it's really funny how you say that, because, you know, this, I think I could say about a year and a half, you know, I came back to Indonesia, and I go through a lot of the things that I didn't realise that I was in dealing with, back when I was a kid, right? fear of being judged, right? When I was a kid, for example, or not necessarily when I was a kid. But in general, in this society, especially here in Indonesia, where we cannot show vulnerability, we cannot look vulnerable, right? We always need to look strong, we always need to be successful. But that's not what real life is about, right? Real life is about failing and failing and failing and learn from your failures, you get back up, and you find that success. But that's not what the society thought us because if you failed at one thing, you're a total loser and you're unworthy of, you know, being a kid or whatever. Right? So, for me, that is the biggest trigger is that, you know, that being that fear of judgement, you know, that I'm always being compared to and, you know, I don't know, like, if you know, this, but in, in Asian, for example, society, the stereotype anyway, right? Just so, you know, it's a stereotype is that like, you know, a lot of times we are compared to and, you know, especially our parents are comparing two, four. I think they with the right intention, right? They want to say it's like, oh, look at x, you know, he's so successful, he got great A's and stuff, it's for a good reason. They want to inspire you, so you can be like them, right? But sometimes by by having that over and over again, you start going like, you start feeling like you're a failure because you you're not getting what x is getting. Right. And I think one of the thing that I really learned, like a lot this past year and a half dealing with this is that we don't give ourselves enough credit. When when we fail with our man, we bring ourselves down a lot like a whole lot like, stupid, I shouldn't have done this. I could have known better. Why did I do this? But when when we win, right? When we make small wins, we're like, oh, cool. Next, right? We are in this society that we are forced to, to move forward. It's a fast pacing society that we used to go into what's next? What's next? What's next, right? But we don't spend enough time to stop and celebrate our wins, it doesn't matter how big it is, right? For a really good example, after I, you know, after I finished a podcast, I don't go, oh, well done, you know, you finish a podcast, you know, like, put this together, speak to someone new. And you're gonna put this together and you know, you bring inspiration to other people. I don't do that. Right. And that's actually a good reminder that I shouldn't do that. But, you know, we, we did so many things for ourselves, and we don't get the praise for it from ourselves. And in the country, when we did something, even the slightest thing, right? You know, when we export something from Lightroom, the wrong thing is like, oh, man, what did I do that I should have known better? It's just exporting, right? It's, we punish so much. So I think that's really important to be thankful, show gratitude for what you have, and celebrate your wins, doesn't matter how small it is, and use those small celebration as as a snowball effect, right, as a momentum to get more wins out there. So that's yeah, for me, personally, you know, it's been a long journey to find that out. But that is the trigger for me. Unknown Speaker  1:07:00   Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. I mean, I'm always curious what goes into into other other especially artists like like psych Ian on, you know, how, how we get to that point, and, and then becoming aware of it, so that so that we can be more conscientious about the decisions that we make, and that that little voice you're talking about in your head that, that gets really, really loud? When When, when there's negative things going on, but gets pretty quiet when the positive things happen. So yeah, how to kind of minimise that. That yeah, that dialogue, that net, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:07:35   there's this book called Unknown Speaker  1:07:39   Untethered Soul, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:07:40   no, breaking the habit of being yourself or something along that line by Joe Dispenza. And that was just so powerful, because the thing is, it's not our fault. It's not anyone's fault. But it's because of the amount of environment and you know, culture, whatever it may be, that we are exposed to, we get shaped a certain way, right. And when we get a shape certain way, if we don't change that, if we do an act once is just a an action, right? If do it twice, it beco

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast with Stanley Aryanto. This week we will be chatting with Supriya and how she took control of her life when she quit her position as bank manager and found photography Meanderquest is the handle name for all the visual work done by artist Supriya Samal. Supriya is a photographer, digital artist, generative artist, and writer. She started her journey into photography while still working as an officer in the bank. It was also the time when she got diagnosed with Clinical Depression.   Hence, photography became a part of her healing process. She traveled with her partner and found a world of art outside the struggles of mind. Photography and digital art made her discover her strengths, mindset, and inner power. She also blends photography and digital art to create subtle yet meaningful abstract art. Mental Health and Art are her core focus in life.   Website: https://www.meanderquest.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meanderquest Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/meanderquest NFTart: https://www.meanderquest.com/nft-art-work   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------ Transcription: Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  0:00   Can't go through it anymore. It's just not helping me at all. And when this my health became bad, that was the last straw for me Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:09   Hey, Wicked Hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast by Stanley Aryanto, where we share photographers journey and how they find hope, purpose and happiness through photography. And today we have someone that I've met through Instagram and we've been connected all the way through all this time. And you know, I've seen her journey since the very first time she was, you know, asking on how to capture the first Milky Way and she just kept growing. It's just such an inspiration to to see her journey through photography and how it changed her life. So today, we have Supriya Hey, Supriya, how are you today? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  0:55   Hey, Sandy, I'm doing good. How are you doing? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:59   I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm so glad that you know, you made it here. And I know you have an inspiring story behind your photography, as well as you know, behind your life. So I'd love I'd love to, for you to share that because I know that the audience cannot find a lot of inspiration from it. But you know, you we cannot connect through Instagram, right? The first message you asked me, I think clubhouse was the first one I can't remember. Yes, yeah. And then you need to see your eyes about like the Milky Way. And the next thing I know is like, you just capture this crazy Mercury shot. So that's, that's amazing. But you know, before we get there, how does the passion for photography come to you like, what makes you want to do photography in the beginning? Yes. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  1:50   So first of all, I would like to thank you for inviting me to this podcast regarding my journey, so initially, actually, I didn't have any idea regarding photography, or whatsoever. It all started back in 2017 2017 2018. So the thing is, I was actually going through clinical depression. So and at that time, I was working as a full time working as a bank manager. And it's been six years. But there was something missing, you know, in that day to day life. And with clinical depression, it only got worse for me. So at one point, I was hospitalised and my health was quite worse. So my husband, Sam, he proposed like, Let's go somewhere, you know, so we planned a trip to the Himalayas. And there was this village, those Rukwa it's like, the border village in the northern side of India. So we went to that village, it was a quite an off road. And like hardly any, you will hardly find any car or bike, you know, going there. So we were like the only persons going there. And the road was pretty bad. And we had like a near death experience that day, because we were at 13,000 feet. I remember, it was a pass mountain pass. And suddenly the cloud came from nowhere. And our houseguest. He has warned us like, you know, don't spend much time there. It's very beautiful. But you know, don't get tempted. So, but we were there and we wanted to take some pictures. So we took some pictures. And suddenly the cloud came and as we were, as we started to, you know, go down, said we didn't even know the car. No, it was on an automatically it shut down. And it was just riding down the mountain road. It was luckily, we thought like we were hearing some music. And luckily it stopped and I was like, why we're not hearing the music. Then we realised Okay, the car is not running. So Sam started the car and we were just you know, just on the edge of that road. So we stopped there. And you know, we got out of the car and I was like taking deep breaths. And I was thinking like, what am I doing with my life? It was like those moments, you know, and then we went to that quiet little village. It was a very beautiful, you know, old wooden houses and like they have preserved their mountain culture and everything. And now the beauty of that place was so good. I started taking some pictures on my phone. Sam had a camera back then because he was doing photography, you know, taking travel shots. He was a biker so he does that I had no idea how to operate a camera. But I was taking on my mobile camera and he had, he actually had to take a shot. And he was doing trying it. And he said, like, it's not coming as I want. So I was like, let me try. So, you know, I tried the camera and I took a shot and, and he said, like, yeah, I want you to take this one. So I was like, okay. No idea. But, you know, there was something like, when I hold it, and you know, I looked through the viewfinder, I took that one first photo. It's not that good. But you know, that the first feeling of doing that, like, you are doing something, you know. So after that, when we came back, I decided to quit my job. And we thought, like, you know, let's do this travel thing, because I was already feeling a little bit good, health wise. So we started travelling for the next three months. And during this time, I started taking pictures, like random pictures that I took. And but then when we came to Germany in 2019, so I got my first camera. And from there onwards, like, till today, I never look back. It was like, quite a journey for me. learning everything, but I enjoyed every bit of it. Because I sometimes think to myself, if not for photography, if not for travel, I would not have been where I am today. No. So it's it's like a blessing for me. Yes, clinical depression is something one shouldn't think of happening to someone else. But it was like a blessing for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:48   Wow. That's, that's crazy, right? I mean, it's sometimes we take our lives for granted so much, until we need to hit that rock bottom, you know, and for you, it was like that near death experience, you know, on the car, like, just on the side. Like, I mean, like, I don't know exactly how it is. But you know, I was, I was just came from Nepal, and then we go through that kind of roads. So I think I kinda can picture you know, what you mean, with the crazy road and stuff like that. And, like, so nervous when you when you eat when you share that story? That's crazy. So, you know, so it seems like photography and travel have really just deceived yourself, it has changed your life. Yeah. How, but share us a little bit more about it, right? How does it actually change your life, you know, how taking photos and going on trips, makes you happier, and, you know, become less depressed. And, you know, essentially, where you are today, where you are feeling a lot better about your life, I take it. Yeah, give us a little bit more about that journey, because I'm pretty sure our audience would love to hear that. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  7:58   And yeah, so like, what happened when we started travelling. And initially, it was only you know, to mountains and places, because we both love spending time on mountains. And at that time, like now, also I write daily, so when we used to go on our travels, and all on the mountains. So there were some times when I was like, not thinking of anything, and just enjoying that place. You know, so the living on those moments, was like, I was experiencing something for the first time, like, on the daily basis, when we run to Office, do our work, all the stuff, you know, we forget to take those moments to ourselves. And just think about, like, where my life is going on, or just not think about anything at all. So it was those moments and the same thing I felt when I hold the camera. So like if I'm taking a photo, I just immerse myself so much, that I can't think of anything happening in my surroundings, literally nothing. And I'm the kind of person who doesn't enjoy hikes, right? I had never done any hikes before in my life. And it was only during those time. And this photography actually inspired me to go on hikes to you know, to break that boundary like that those limitations we put on ourselves. So that was like some very first things which were happening to me. And I had only heard these things from Sam because he was travelling in before me and and I was like, okay, just saying stuff. But when I experienced all those things, I was like I understood the you know the reality of it and why someone should do it and also like in travel, you meet people, you experience different cultures, you talk to them, you hear their story. And you understand like, the problems you think, you know, in you have in your life is like, so minuscule compared to what is happening in this world. And you are just in your bubble thinking about, Oh, this thing happened to me, that thing happened to me which is, which is not, it is very trivial. And in the bigger terms of life, so these are the learnings, which I get no experiencing. And regarding my depression, so, like, I was, I was in that kind of point, where my mental health was so bad, I was not talking to anyone to like any person, you know, to my friends, to my family, except them. And when you are travel, when you're travelling, you're meeting people, you're, you know, forced to have that conversation, sometimes you can't just, you know, keep mom don't say anything, it can't happen. And when they're a new person you are, it's like something new, you want to know about them. So you have to have that conversation. And like, it's, it's so intriguing, it's so interesting to learn about people. So, that also, you know, dissipate my that afraid I like I was very afraid to interact with people. So that also went away. Like the thing which is happening today, I would not have thought of doing this because I am so afraid of you know, interacting with someone. But yeah, this travel and photography, both of these helped me so so, so much. And I actually met many interesting people who have spent their life in such a way in such hardships, and yet they have so many interesting stuff to share from their life experience. And it was worth knowing, like, in this lifetime, you got to meet them and learn about them. And, yeah, that was the thing. All of this, you know, helped me with my mental health and, and my photography journey. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:17   That's incredible, you know, just Just hearing that I'm very happy. Much the same way. And you know why I love photography and travel, I know exactly what you mean, you know, being in the present. I remember when I was when there was a COVID Right. Now a lot of my clients is like, broken down, and a lot of my income was going to stop and I was stressed about money. And then you know, when like, I'm living here in Bali, and I wouldn't give them to like, you know, give 2000 or 5000 rupee or tips, which is not even $1, right, it's about 50 cents or 20 cents, and they are the most grateful and you know, when so I know exactly what you mean, you know, we we live in a bubble and we always look at social media and seems like we need to be like that, you know, like is simple to be happy. Right? And of course, we still need all that money to buy all of our gears because the target that is the worst. It's funny, because like, when I was in Canada, you know, like I had a car and everything. But just to put that in perspective that what I have in my bag is a lot more precious than everything else in the car, I was just like, including the car, just like holy, it's crazy. But that's, you know, it brings happiness. So when you were a bank manager, um, you know, you're in a really good place, right? Being a manager, it's a dream for a lot of people to be a manager, you know, it's a lot of people are working hard to get up there and obviously work hard to get there, right. You're a bank manager, I'm guessing you know, you're getting that really good income, you'll get really good benefit or comfortable financially, but what's missing? Why why is it that you're still you know, unhappy and depressed about it and how does that change when you and what what makes you decide to leave that career and start something different or try something? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  14:21   Okay, actually, to narrate about that experience I need to go back a little bit further. So I did my graduation in pharmacy. And after that, I worked for a year in a pharmaceutical company as a Quality Assurance Manager and it was in Goa. So like in India go up people treat it like okay that is is such a place near to the sea. It's beautiful. It's actually a beautiful place, but people go there to you know, have their holidays, and I was working there and during like on the weekends Whenever we visit, see, I would see people in, you know, spending the holidays and everything. And I was like, why I'm not feeling that experience, I am in a place which people all over from India coming to spend their holiday, I should feel that, you know, but then I was when I was working there in that company, I was like, No, something is missing. So I thought like, maybe because this is a private sector or corporate sector, I'm not feeling it. So I should try something different. So I gave the exams and got the job in a government bank in India. So when I went there, and the first day when I met my manager, it's an interesting story. When I met my manager, he asked me like, Okay, you did graduation in pharmacy? Why do you asked me like, why did you choose to come and join the bank? And I was like, why this person is asking me this ridiculous question. And like, after, after, like, one month, I understood why that person was asking me that question. So and it was like, I was in my probation. So after three months, I had to leave that branch and go to some other branch. So my manager told me, you know, Supriya, I have very high hopes for you. You shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't continue in this bank, you should go somewhere else. Okay, you should tell me, where should I go now? Okay. I thought like, okay, maybe this is not working, you know, I should try something else. So I thought, what is the you know, highest job in India. So it was like the civil services. So I thought, okay, I love to travel, I want to travel. So maybe I should try for the foreign ambassador position. I know, there were exams. So I started studying for that. I even passed the exam, the written exams and the interview twice. Okay. But when I was preparing for the third time, I was still on to bank working. So when I was preparing for the third time, you know, this question came to my mind, every time when I was in the bank, when I was studying, it came to my mind, like, Am I doing it, right? Like, why I need this job. I'm saying, I know, I'm giving myself or using like, I want to travel, but that is not something this job entails, like okay, you got you will have, you will have the opportunity to travel, but you will have lots of other responsibilities as well, because you will be working for a nation you have, you know, you should be able to justify that. So, it got poking in my mind again and again. And when I was in the office now working, and I was thinking like, okay, the scenario is not going to change. I will be you know, working in an office with other colleagues, you know, there will be other people, but it will be the same office, I will have to sit inside this four walls and work. And okay, I will have a little bit more opportunity to travel then this banking career. But that's not just enough. So this question is what you know, I didn't write the exam that year. I decided like, okay, no, this is the time this is the high time. I know, I was continuing. But that was the last time I was like, it's everything, you know, you feel like a choking that feeling inside yourself. And it's just not enough. Like you see everyone else enjoying it. But you are like the one person I was feeling sometimes in the bank. You know, everyone else is just running. And I'm the only person sitting in that desk. And I'm just wondering about my life. It was like that. So yeah, that was a very tough decision to take. Because knowing like, you don't, you will not have your next paycheck coming for you. And it was like, you know, we were just married back then. And it was only six months. But and it was lot to you know, ask from your partner. No. So it's not something I had decided from a long back that I will do and you know, you you got to talk about it. It was not something like that, but I'm lucky on on that matter that you know, Sam was very understanding because he wanted to do all this stuff. So yeah, so that was the thing that led me to quit my job. I am saying it sincerely, Stanley. I had no idea what I was going to do. But I knew that I'm going to do something, you know. And when we took that trip, like I said, So I At this, I had this idea came to my mind, like, I should do photography, I should write about my experiences. So that was it. And like any Asian, you know, parents, my parents were not that, you know, agreeable to me leaving my job. But yeah, with time, I hope they will come around like my mom, she understands it now, my father is still a bit hung up on that, but I know with time he will come around it. So yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:35   Wow, that's, that's really cool. You know, I know, it's how hard it is to leave that secure life. And I think what's really cool is that you keep and you keep looking for the answer, right? You try this one thing. And most people when they get stuck on, you know, get comfortable in that job, even though they don't like it, they just keep going by you go out there and try something else, and you try something else. And there you are finding something that, you know, of course, it's not perfect, because nothing is perfect. Right? It comes with the struggle and everything. But it's something that seems like you know, it's good for your health, making you happier as a person and helps you with the depression as well, which is fantastic by massive congratulations for doing that. I'm very happy to do that. So, you know, like when you quit your job? So, tell me this one thing? So are you doing photography full time now? Or what are some of the ways you are doing in order to find that income, you know, and to offset to offset the income from your previous job? Because I know, we all love photography, and we all wish that all we got to do that all we can do is take photo and travel. But unfortunately, we all need money, right? So then what did you decide to do to find that income? And how is that transition kind of work for you? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  21:59   Okay, so, like for the initial two years, I had some savings, you know, from my previous job, which I knew I can depend upon. So that was my safety net. But then actually, when we move to Germany, here, there is a little problem when it comes to approaching clients or anything, it's that you have to learn the language, you have to know the language. So I actually wanted to join the language courses, but then COVID came and all those restrictions, the classes were not happening now, although stuff and afterwards I started learning on my own, but it was not that efficient, because the you have to give the exams and everything here. So that I will be doing now like I have already enrolled in learning the German language classes. So I will be doing it now. But yes, like after the second year, I started approaching some brands. And I had worked with some and like some were paid, and some were, you know, not paid, like just they got to the what the things which you wanted, and there was some hotel collaborations on our trips. So that was like, a good thing happened. I also, when we were on Matera trip, I also did a collaboration with our Airbnb house owner. So that was my first thing happening. So apart from that, I also did some, like paid gigs here, like there, some people want to take the portraits or there was an event in our Old City, it was happening for the farmers market. So I did a paid gig then. So it was like that, like small small gigs. But I also when last year when I joined NFT space. So that also was a source of income. And now, like after learning the language, I want to properly establish, you know, my business here, I want to register and everything because that's what you need in Germany. And yeah, after that, I want to approach the clients because Munich being a big city, here you have even more opportunity. So I'm looking forward to that and I'm quite positive about it. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:45   yeah, that's fantastic. You know, you know going and starting over basically from the having a nine to five and then you move to a different country and you have to learn the language and you know all of this struggle but you keep pushing through and I would We all know, as photographers and artists, we all know that, you know, photography is not an easy thing to make money. But I think what people don't understand is that almost everything else is not easy, right? It requires. Yeah, it's really fun. It's like, you know, as an engineer, I have to study for years, plus an extra one year for my master degree, right? So, five years, just study, when I quit my job and do photography, full time, I was expecting to be up and running in six months, it's not going to happen, you know, you have to learn how to do all these mistakes. So it's really funny how that mindset is just so different. But I'm glad that you're pushing through and you know, you get that you get, you push through, you know, a lot of this challenges to get to where you are today. So, what is some of the things that really, that you really passionate that really makes you excited when it comes to photography, like know, when you capture it or when you travel? What are some of the things that you look for? After your photos? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  26:13   Yes, so my, when I started photography, it was initially the landscape, you know, so, I was quite drawn towards nature. I, I saw like Daniel cotton Albatros, you know, their photos and how they took it. And I was like, so fascinated about it. I was like, how how people do that? No, I want to learn that. So, that led me to, you know, different journeys on different trips. And every trip I learned something, like, I remember this trip in Germany, German Alps in Bucharest garden, okay. So there is this place called hinter z. So, I studied everything, you know, prepared everything before going to that place, and we went there. And, and the first sunrise, there was nothing happening, and no, no clouds, it was just a black sunrise, I enjoyed the sunrise came back. Then the second day, they went to the same place. And it was like, magnificent, you know, everything was so beautiful. And guess what? I took blurry pictures. And it's been like, what, seven months, I had been taking pictures. But at that moment, I took blurry pictures came back home thinking, Oh, we got some good shots. And when I looked into you know, I open this and MOLAP to lose it. Why? All this happened? How did I think blurry picture, then I understood, okay, this is the shitty tripod, which I put there. I should get a better tripod. So that was my first lesson, you know, because it was windy that morning. And I was there was the lake, the mountain I was trying to take the long exposure, and somehow everything got blurry. So So you know, after that, after that, actually, when I went in that trip only we went to another lake OBC. And then I saw photographers taking photos. And they were it was like, What 8am 8:30am and the sun was up. They were taking long exposures. And I saw they were using something you know, I didn't know about ND filters back then. And every experiences of mine, whatever I have learned it was on sale. I don't know what the hell I was researching over the Google. But Google never told me anything. So everything on sale. So I saw that. And I was like, I went to one photographer. He is a very known photographer in Austria. I went to him and I asked him, like, why you were using this? He looked definitely. He looked at me and I was like, this is an ND filter. I will say okay, what's the use? And then he explained me all the stuff. You know, I think that is something good about me. Like, I don't know, I'm not afraid of asking questions. I don't think for a second like what the other person is going to do you have a camera, you're taking photos and you're asking questions. But yeah, that's how I have learned actually on field. And that after that, I came home that day on my trade. And I he gave me some links, you know, from where I can read read about stuff. So I read a lot everything and I understood about it. And from there onwards, I got like a part how to, you know, look about stuff and how to prepare yourself before the trip and all those things. So that most of us think landscape, then, actually, when we went to Barcelona last year, like before that trip, I was a little bit of thinking like, Okay, I have only taken landscape photos, how I'm going to take any street shots, how I'm going to take any architecture shots, like, this is not something I have done. And another of my friend, Julia, she, that I met her also from Instagram, like you. So she was joining us in that trip, she lives in Madrid. So it was also new for her because she also takes only landscapes. So both of us, you know, went around exploring the city and taking all kinds of shots, you know, and it was quite fun. And after the trip, actually, I realised like, I don't have to, you know, put a pin on anything, but I do, like every photographer, you see the group, everyone grows. And this is why like, I had put a pin on my life, when I was working in that nine to five job, why I had to do the same in terms of creativity, I can grow. So that was the thing I do did Street and architecture, then I when I went to India this year, I took tribal portraits. So it's like, now I'm finding you know, everything, which I do, I want to do it in a better way. And that's the thing, I'm enjoying everything, everything related to photography. And even though astrophotography you know, that also, like, the nights you spent there standing, you know, alone and looking at the sky, that feeling that feeling is incredible. I don't want to partner with that feeling just because I take architecture shots, or you know, portrait stuff. No, I want to feel that also. So yeah, I'm going to try everything. So let's see. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:08   It's cool. Yeah, I think you know, I love the changes. You know, I don't like the one thing and I get bored easily. So I agree with you, I like to just be do everything right now. When it comes to branding, a lot of people say stick with one first. But at the end of the day, I think it's important to do what we love. And you know, don't let what has been done before restrict us from what we want to do. I think that's really important. So it's really cool. But I want to talk about the astrophotography there for a second. I remember that they were specifically I was running the webinar. And then you asked me about you know how to take you know, the Milky Way, because you're gonna go on the trip. And I was like away, so I didn't see your message. And then when I reply to you, you already like, you know, like, already went on the trip. And then after that you got to tracker and then you know, you just you grow really quick capturing that Milky Way, right. So tell me tell us a little bit about the jerky because shooting Milky Way is, first of all, a lot of people have a lot of restriction against it right? Go out there at my, you know, where it's dark, in the middle of nowhere. A lot of people first of all have beer doing that. But second of all, the technique and everything is very different. I know like it took me, I think about two years until I can finally successfully capture my first photo of the stars, and therefore you're not captured the motorway. But it takes a lot of a lot of a lot of journey to get there. So share with us a little bit about your journey behind your Milky Way and Astro photography, because I know that we grow very quickly and you learn very quickly and we go from asking me the question, start shooting tracker. So it's crazy. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  34:02   Yeah, so regarding astrophotography actually, it was during the COVID. During the COVID I first saw your page on Instagram, and I saw those Milky Way shots. Even before that actually I remember in 2018 or something. I first saw one of the Milky Way shots from one Indian photographer. So it was like one image but when I came to your page, and I just saw all those images, I was like, quite hooked. And then I saw Joffrey. He was, you know going on shooting the Milky Way's I was like, What is this thing? No. Earlier I was thinking maybe this was all done in Photoshop or something, you know? And then when I saw your no so many images and then Joffrey going out there shooting I was like, I want to do this. What is this thing? I'm quite intrigued then I started reading about You know, it all the astrophotography stuff. So I asked you, you know, and then I asked to Joffrey or so. And I would search on Google like, it was like four months, I was just waiting because there was COVID restrictions and everything. So I was just reading about the stuff. And I would tell Sam every day, you know, I want to take a Milky Way shot in Madera. We had no plan whatsoever to go to Madera, you know, we were thinking of going to Slovenia, okay? And I was like, I want to go there. I don't know what about the place, I want to go there and want to take a Milky Way shot. So I read about everything. I, you know, ordered the new tripod. Okay, I ordered a new tripod and the lenses and everything. And the tracker thing, actually, it was taking some time to get delivered. In Germany, it was about a month or so. And we were about to go on a trip and 15 days. So I just madly searched over internet about Madeira photographer who is taking Astro shots, okay. And I got one, this person angry. So I contacted him. And we started talking. And I told him like, you know, we are coming to Missoula, and I want to take those Astro shots. And and I don't have a tracker. So like, can you listen to me or check? And he said yes. And he was like, okay, that will be fun, you know, to meet you guys. And so I was like, Okay, let's do that. And then we went to Madeira. And the first night, we planned to take photo, it was actually near lighthouse, okay, near the sea. And like your earlier mentioning about, you know, being afraid of the dark. If there is someone on this earth who is afraid of that it's me, like, in my own house. I get so afraid. So imagine me standing on a hill taking extra shots. It was like, that's the thing I love about photography, you know, I have done things which I would have never done in my life, if not for that. So. So we went to that lighthouse. And I wanted to take shots. It was not tracked shots. I just wanted to you know, experiment. And I learned about those 500 rule 400 rules. No. So I on the field when I was experimenting, and I asked Sam to you know, be the object of that whole scenario. So he was standing there, he was going back and forth. And I was like, okay, the stats are not that charts are blurry, the focus is not good. The entire night, we didn't sleep. And like, I think about like, after two or two and a half hours. I got what I wanted. Okay. But there was quite a bit like pollution because, you know, it wasn't the sea level and something and there was a lighthouse also. So the light, there was light pollution. But yeah, the stars were neat, and everything was good. And we took that and we came home. And then I was like, Okay, I now I want to take the track shots now that I know, I want to take the traction. So on the day when we went so our friend Andrey, he also joined us. And he had another whole setup for you know, deep sky photography with telescope and everything. And I was like, Whoa, that's one thing. I didn't know. That was a new thing for me. I was like, Okay, let me handle this small thing first and I will go for the bigger so he was setting up his and I had read about the you know, the polar star, you know, the alignment and everything. But with star tracker when you look through that, you know the tiny hole and do that polar alignment. Oh my god after after, like one hour. I was nearly blind. I was not able to see. The I was only looking through that one hole. No, no, no, Sam was trying. I was trying. It took us two hours to do the polar alignment. Okay. And we did the alignment by the time it was already dark. And but yeah, we did it. And then we took the panel shots. And it was in funnel forest. Okay. So in that forest, visited two cameras, one without tracker and one with tracker with tracker, I was taking the art shots. And another I took for the you know, to make the light trails, Star Trek sorry, star trails. So it was at one end of the forest. And it was another end of the forest. So in that dark night, we went you know, tries yeah food Times, and you know, you'll have if you have seen them funnel forest images, the tree is, you know, they look like something, you know those creatures, something like that. And imagine in the dark when you suddenly hit the light, turn them it was like, okay, something there, I was so afraid, I was just thinking about, Okay, think about the photos you are going to take, you know, that was my inspiration to go through that dark night. And the entire night I didn't we didn't sleep at all, like angry, he called us, you know, you guys too, should take some rest, you know, we should set up tent, you know, we should take some rest, and he'll go and sleep, I want to sleep. I was so excited. So, and we took all kinds of shots experimented, I also took that Andromeda galaxy shot. And then, you know, he showed us many objects, you know, many stars on the sky he showed us. So that was you know, quite a learning experience. And then about like, five ish in the morning, we started coming back home, everyone was asleep. And, and I was just thinking about, wow, how is all these photos are going to look on my laptop, I want to see them. And, of course, then we came home. And after that actually, the real struggle started. I took all these photos, I had no idea how to do a panel. Okay. But I actually had done a webinar with Daniel Colton once. So he mentioned something about particularly, no, I remember I remember that. So I was like, Yeah, I remember that was something regarding the panel, you know, you can do panels in that. So I got that software. And then I searched about how to do stalking and all those stuff. And yeah, that was quite an experience. Like, you see those images, a Milky Way arch and you think okay, well, what is in there, but no, oh my God, all that thing that experiences that, you know, the research and an after you take the images or the post processing is like a journey in itself. So yeah, I enjoy it though the astral shot. And after that also, we went to take the meteor shower pursued meteor shower shots in Germany. And they're also we had some struggle with our new star tracker, you know, the day one, we couldn't do the polar alignment. It didn't happen. And it was night it was windy, we were actually not prepared. And like after one or two, if you're not prepared and windy night, you can't just you know, stand there and do something. So we came back. And the next day, we went fully prepared. We took all the shots. And even if the forecast was, you know, it's going to be cloudy. But before the clouds we actually saw 50 meteors and took the Milky Way. And with with the meteors, so it was like it was I had never imagined it. So yeah, everything you know, in life is a first if your dries up. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:18   That's cool. That is really cool. You know, like this during that journey is crazy. I think, you know, one thing that I could find inspiration from is how never scared to ask for help. Right? And you see how how fast you can learn and progress in your journey by reaching out to other people who have done it before, right? I mean, whether you buy a course or go on a webinar or just asking a question. Yeah, that's really cool that you know that, to hear that journey of you reaching out and, you know, having this photographer, local photographer who don't know you at all, but you know, also, like, let you borrow all this stuff. And that's, that's, I think that's one of the coolest thing about travel and photography is next. Right? And, yeah, so I saw some of your, you know, Astro photo, and it's just, they are incredible, you know, especially for someone who just started when I first saw it and was like, Why? Why did you ask me this question, you know, how it's like, it's crazy, but it shows how much artwork you put in there and, you know, just make such a big progress because you're committed to make that happen. So massive kudos to a massive alteration in that happen. So when you think about you know, a travel or a trip or a photo that you ever take there any particular moment or any particular photo that you're either most proud of or you love the most out of that moment and tell us why Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  45:01   Sorry, I didn't hear the last part of the question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:04   Basically, like, you know, like, out of your travel and the photo that you have taken us your favourite moments or your favourite photo that you have captured, and just tell us why it is so important and why you love them so much. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  45:21   Okay, so it's, it's very difficult to choose, you know, your favourite photos. But yeah, on in terms of like trip or journeys I had to take. So I'd say the first on my list is obviously, obviously, the Milky Way arch, which I took, because, like, six months, went into that just to make it happen. So all those research and everything. And that was my favourite, and because I also faced my fear of darkness, like, that's my major fear. And in a heartbeat, I would like to, you know, go back and live that moment, over and over again, it was such a beautiful night, like, I saw the stars, the Milky Way, I think after 15 or 16 years in my life, I saw the Milky Way for the first time. So it was like, in an experience in itself, I couldn't forget that. And if I have to choose second one, it would be this tribal portrait, which I did recently in India. So for that, that trip is also kind of an experience in itself, because we did all kinds of, you know, preparation I learned about because I had never taken portrait before that. Okay, yes, I had done some gigs. But it was something you know, when you do for your clients, they need some particular stuff. And you know about that, of course, I understand the lighting and everything. But like, when it comes to your personal project, something you want to do, you are fearful the most like that goes into me like I feel like okay, how I'm going to do this. So I had read about that stuff like okay, how this portrait stuff is, no thing happens. I saw the images, Steve McCurry have taken and all those things. And I was like, Okay, let's do that. I had no expectations from that. So for that to be actually went to a village in northeast India, northeastern India, and we didn't know that there was a cyclone, no warning for that region. Because normally when I take landscape photos, I checked the weather I check for astrophotos shots, I check the weather, but for portrait, like, Okay, why I would need to check the weather. So we went on that trip, and that part of the Himalayas mountain, it's actually the land is very, you know, muddy. And it's very, like landslides happen all the time in that region. And when we started our journey, there was no rain like and halfway through, it started raining massively, like as we, you know, started climbing up the mountain, it started raining heavily. And by the time like, I remember, it was turning dark, and we couldn't even see what is up there. You know, a little bit ahead, it was so cloudy. And around sexuals or 630 it was completely dark. And we were stuck in a road which is only mud like our car was literally floating over it you know? And the driver said we can't make it we can't go no go further. And I was like how we are supposed to be in this place. It's raining it's muddy. And it's nowhere like there was no house there was nothing there were only trees and and and the house guest where we were supposed to reach he was calling us and he was asking like where are you guys have you reached or not? And we were telling him okay, we are in the forest. We are in this road we don't know. And he was asking Is there anyone going is there any truck going? No one is working and like who is mad enough to go that weather and then like we told our driver Okay then let's return back and you know, go to the nearest village but we didn't imagine like returning also that road is also you know that muddy and everything. So that is also going to take time. So to go downhill also it took us you know another half and out. And then when we were supposed to go and look for a place to remain for that night, then our driver said, no, no, you guys have come from so far, we should go, we should try again. That was like, why we will get the half an hour to coming back here, you know, then I was like, Okay, let's go. And actually, Sam and I, we were both quite angry, open that travel agent, because we had told him, like, we want a four by four car because this route is not good. That is what we have heard, like back from the blogs and everything. And he didn't provide us a four by four card. So it was it was an adventure, like we ditch the place around 10 Like, no 11pm around 11pm Finish the place. And that too, after like people came, I Sam and I also have to get down from the car, we had to push the car, and the event and you know, we had to walk through the forest. And you know, the driver was more afraid than us know. And we like Sam and I, we will guide in him, okay, 10 take turn, like we went to Google Map for him that night. And we're like, take left take right. And then we'll reach the place. And after that those are tribes whose photos we went to take. And it is like the last generation remaining. And they are in their 80s and 90s. And, you know, when people in 80s and 90s, like many people, many travel photographers also come to take their photos, and they don't speak your language, they have a different language. So we took a guide with us who can you know, who is from them, and who can translate what we want to convey with them. So first he took us to an old lady, she is in her I think in 85 or something 8586. And then he told her, like, you know why we had come and you know, we want to take the photos and everything. So I just sat there in the house, she offered her, she offered us the local wine, you know, they do from the rice and everything. So she offered us that. And she was sitting by the fire, you know, wouldn't fire and there was the house was you know, not in a good shape, because she is the only surviving member of the family. And you know, she had to do all those stuff. And I was sitting there and I was looking at her and thinking like, I have taken great deal of you know, all this, like 15 hours of flight and all that adventure of 12 hours. And now I'm here sitting in front for her, and I want to take the photos, but how do I approach her like, I don't know the language. And because when you know the language when you talk with someone, you create something, you know, some kind of connection with that person and then it becomes easy. So I started asking questions, because I asked her that tour guide, you know, to translate all those questions and she started telling all kinds of story, like, you know, how those, like they have some kind of, you know, tattoo face tattoos and everything done. So I started asking, I started asking about her childhood and you know, she was narrating translator was narrating beside there for one and half an hour, you know, chatting with that old lady. And then I asked her like, okay, and by that time she was smiling, and you know, even though we were not talking, but we I felt like okay, I felt that connection from her story. And then like, I asked the guy like, now can I you know, can I take her photo? Can you ask her that? Then he asked her and she said yes. And then I took photos of her, like the way I have imagined the way I wanted. And it was quite good. And, and that moment when I was taking that photo of her. And then I also know, took the Instax search so that I can give some photo to remember by and she was you know, she was so happy when I gave her that photo to smile. I won't even you know forget Stanley I will never forget and she was like a childlike happiness. And we see photo every day, you know? And then you know that was something I learned that day. Like, the things we take for granted, every simple thing, every small thing can make someone smile. I take photos every day, but I was like, Okay, these are the photos. But for her, it's something to remember by you know. So these are the two moments which is quite near and dear to my heart, and will always be Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:23   Wow, what a story. Thanks for sharing that Supriya. It's just incredible. Yeah, I know, I do. As you were, like, explaining that, you know, when she saw that photo, and she's smiling, I just got massive goosebumps. You know, it's, it's moments like that, that makes us really enjoy photography and photography, right? Yeah. Look, Supriya It's been great having you here. You know, we're coming to the one hour mark. And one question I always ask. So my audience is that if there is one advice that you could give your younger self or also the audience, whether it is about photography, or live or mental health, or whatever it may be? What would that one single advice Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  56:03   be? Yes. So for me, like if I have to give this to younger self or someone else that would be don't be afraid to try new things in your life. Because you never know. You never know what lies ahead of you. And when you go into that path, trying new things, you will discover things that you have never imagined you will be able to do. So. Yeah, that's the one thing I would like to say. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:35   So beautiful advice, Willa. Super, thank you very much for being here. You know, I enjoyed this talk. enjoy listening to your story. I know we've connected to Instagram and Twitter and clubhouse. But you know, that's why that's why I love this kind of podcast is I really get to know you personally in a much different level of level. And you know, you are able to share your story and your journey as a photographer, you know, not, like, not many people know about that, you know, six months journey capturing your Astro photography, or your journey going into this tribe, you know, being able to see one of the happiest moments of someone else's life. And that really give us perspective on how lucky we are. If we have a roof over our head, you don't have to think about what to eat tomorrow and have a phone and a camera and a laptop, you should be really thankful. And in many cases we're not instead we're looking for the things that we don't have. So I think that's such a powerful, powerful thing to to share. But for people who want to learn more about you about your photography or service as well as your NFT project, I don't we didn't get to do that today. But you know, we talked about so many fun things today. What where can they find you? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  57:47   Yeah, they can find me on meander squares, meander quest.com. That is my website. I'm also on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram. And my handle name is Manda quest. And on Twitter, they can find all my NFT is all the links that is also on my website. So yeah, if you have any questions, if you want to reach out, then please feel free to do that. I know Stanley is going to put all the links on the description. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:18   fantastic. Well, we do this thank you very much for tuning in. Hopefully, you have found a lot of jam in there. You know, Supriya have really kind enough to share not only her success story, but the journey kind of personal journey behind her life and how she finds purpose, happiness and get out of that depression, you know, true photography. And I think that's something that's really powerful. You know, I've never come to a point where I had, you know, I was diagnosed with clinical depression, but I certainly know what it feels like to lose purpose and not knowing where to go and not knowing a direction or anything meaningful to life and photography have really changed my life. And that's why I want to share more of this journey with more of you, right? But if you do enjoy this conversation, don't forget to hit the subscribe button. And, you know, give us a review a comment letting us know what if you enjoy this journey so that other people can also find find us and be able to find that whole purpose and happiness and inspiration to our artists. But with that being said, thank you very much Supriya for being here. You know, it's such a pleasure to finally get to know you much deeper level and to be able to share your story because I know how powerful that story is. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  59:42   Thank you so much, Stanley for inviting me and you know, giving me this opportunity to share my story because I also felt good about doing that and I really enjoyed our session. It was kind of something I was hoping and I loved it. I liked Like everyone else who is watching the video, please subscribe to Stanley's podcast because he is great and I love his photos and I'm sure he is going to have some many more beautiful episodes coming, so please don't miss them. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:16   Thank you. Thank you. All right, well wiki hunters. With that being said, Keep shooting, keep creating and I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,   I am excited to have Grant Swinbourne be part of The Wicked Hunt - The Art of Photography Podcast.   Grant Swinbourne is a photographer from Sydney, Australia.  He produces fine art images from his travels around the world, including seascapes, landscapes and travel images.   Grant had a camera in his hands early, starting with 110mm film Instamatic cameras migrating to an SLR in 1984.  Whilst his photography remained an interest, it was one that took a back seat to his career in IT,  until he switched to digital photography in 2004.  It's now gradually overtaken his time and is now his full-time career.   Known mostly for his beautiful seascapes & cityscapes from along the East coast of Australia, he's also amassed a large portfolio of travel photography from many countries.  Grant has had images published in several magazines, including Viajes National Geographic, the Spanish language travel magazine for National Geographic.   In 2021 he was the driving force behind the establishment of the Aussie Artists Collective (https://twitter.com/AussieArtistCol) a collaborative team bringing together over 70 Australian artists displaying their work in two virtual galleries. Grant now runs educational workshops around the Sydney area to help beginners and intermediate photographers to improve their skills and learn new techniques for creating artistic landscapes and seascapes. If you want to learn more about Grant's work, you can find it here: https://linktr.ee/grantswinbourne    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------- Transcription: Grant Swinbourne  0:00   It's never too late, you know, unless you're dead. Once once you're dead, it's too late. But you know, so from my perspective, where you got to do is make sure that before you get there, get out there and do what it is that you're passionate about. Because if you're not actually doing what you're passionate about, then why you're doing it Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:18   Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast with Stanley oriental, where we talk about artists journey and how photography have given them hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone from downunder grant Swinburne is that did I pronounce your last name? Correct there, Grant Swinbourne  0:47   Grant. Oh, nice. Swinburne. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:48   Yeah, Glyndebourne? There you are? How are you? Man? It's good to have you here. I'm so glad. You know, I know. We connected through Twitter, Twitter space, and, you know, eventually to the NFT world. But it's good to be to have you here and to be able to talk about your artist journey and, you know, being able to share that with the rest of the world. Yeah, thanks Grant Swinbourne  1:09   for having me, Sam. It's great to sort of connected if not in person, virtually. But it's, it's really good and really excited to share a bit more about me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:21   Yeah, it's always good, isn't it to be able to see that person. I think that's why that's why we like Twitter. And a lot of us gonna move from Instagram to Twitter, because we have that ability to start listening to people voice and have a deeper connection. But you know, being is no substitute to being able to see them in person or, you know, even through zoom, it's already helps a lot. So really is one of the things that I love about this podcast. Absolutely. All right. So you know that you are living in Sydney, Australia, and, you know, I've seen a lot of your work and a lot of your work are really have a really, what do you cater to a lot of the seascape and you know, all all the things around the Australian coats. So tell me, is that one of your biggest passion in photography, or you like to take a lot of other genres as well as just, you know, the fact that you're living on the coast in Australia? Grant Swinbourne  2:16   Yeah, I guess, you know, Australia, I mean, it's got a massive coastline. And, you know, to be honest, I mean, I've been to I've been to a few places around the world, luckily enough, but in my opinion, you know, in certain places around Australia, yeah, we're very lucky to have the kind of coastline that we do. There's a lot of beaches that, you know, you can go to some beaches along the coast and not seeing another person. That's not the case in Sydney echo. It's, it's, it's pretty crowded, particularly in summer. But for me, I guess I've always, you know, I've been I was born a couple of streets away from a beach on Botany Bay in Sydney. And so the birch and being around the sea, and around the, the estuaries around Sydney has been part of my life ever since I was born. And I guess I'm always drawn to it, I've always loved swimming, I've always loved that sort of feeling of relaxation that you get, you know, when you've gone to the beach, and whether you've sat there and what's the sunrise or whether you've, you know, gone for a swim or you've gone fishing, or you've gone diving or whatever, you know, it's a good feeling, you know, and I guess for me, that's one of the things that I tried to portray in some of my photography is that feeling of what it's like to have that relaxation even though you might be in a, in quite a crowded cities, and very busy lifestyle, and whatever, there's always these places that you can go to seek a bit of refuge and seek some relaxation. And so for me, that's, that's, I guess, one of the things that I'm trying to communicate with quite a lot of my photography that said, you know, on just as at home, you know, chasing waterfalls, or you know, out in out in a bush scene looking for, you know, mountains and whatever, recently did a trip to the UK and did quite a lot of photography around the Lake District and north Wales, you know, nowhere near the coast and very much about the mountains and so forth. So for me, they're, they're landscapes that I'm equally comfortable in and really, really happy about learning in those places. And, you know, again, it's about the conveying the feeling of being there. That's really what I'm trying to portray. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:39   Yeah, that's, that's the cool thing about you know, photography. I think that's one of why the reason why I love photography, the moment is that you could be in a crowded place, but like when you really do need your photography, it's like, you're in the bubble and everything, and we've done it right. That's such a cool feeling. And when you say that I just like yeah, I know exactly like, even if you're like in Bondi Beach like you could just like Sit there have your camera and and like, everything else doesn't just like nothing else matters. So that's really Yeah. So like, what what's your, you know? I love hearing that, you know, like, how can your connection with photography right and your full time live and you know how to be gender coastline really affected you a lot? How did you first fall in love with photography? Like, you know, were you always like holding a camera? Or was there a point in your life where you you just fell in love with them? Grant Swinbourne  5:34   Yeah, I guess it's always been a part of life for me my father, we he was quite a keen photographer. Never, you know, he never really did anything that you know, anyone I guess would call particularly artistic in terms of you know, he never tried to make photography a career or anything like that, you know, the, the art of photography that said, you know, he was always, you know, taking photos on family holidays, or whatever, you know, this is before I was even born. And I remember, he did a lot of stuff that he did from his time in the Navy, in the 1950s and 60s. And I used a lot of sitting there with him on slide nights, you know, so they, obviously they taking photos that ended up being transparencies of slides and loading them into a feeder and then sitting there slotting them through the the slide projector, just up on the on the wall in the lounge room. And, you know, sitting there watching, you know, some of his life portrayed, I guess, in that and you know, as a very young child, I guess that sort of struck me as something that was really cool and interesting to do. I got my sorry about that. I got my first camera when I was probably about 10. And that was a little 110 millimetre you know, happy snapper. film camera was an egg for instamatic. I think it was. And so from there, you know, obviously, growing up in the film days, there was nothing else there was no such thing as digital photography in those days. It was really a matter of, you know, just taking photos of things that I thought were interesting at the time. You know, whether that was down at the beach, or you know, just the back stairs in my grandmother's house, for example. Or the other family cat, it really didn't really didn't really matter to me much at that time. What I took photos of it was just like, Oh, that looks interesting. I'll take a photo of it, you know, and some of them were abysmally awful. Technically, because the camera itself wasn't meant to chop, the subject matter, I had no idea about composition and all those sorts of things. Anyway, fast forward, I guess, until I'd grown up a little bit. And, you know, somewhere, when was it about the mid 80s, mid 1980s, I bought my first SLR, which was a Minolta SG one. And I started to get a little bit more serious about it. And, you know, started to look at, you know, how to how to create a composition and how to how to, you know, develop my own film and that sort of thing. You know, going to high school, and, you know, there was, you know, in art, we'd be messing around mostly with black and white, because colour was expensive, you know, colour enlargers I don't think we had one at the school. You know, they weren't, they were few and far between and very expensive pieces of kit back in the back in the 70s and 80s When I went to school, and so that sort of just drove a little bit more of their creative juices for photography. Funnily enough, though, when I left school and had sort of started to go out to work and whatever work in careers started to take over, then, you know, getting married, having kids, that took even more time, you know, and I sort of started to give up some of those passions a little bit, to concentrate on those things more, you know, more fully. And again, I guess later in in life, once the kids started to get to an age where they were a little bit more self sufficient. I went out and got a digital photography and started to get to a point where I had a few point and shoots, which I did okay with that still wasn't satisfying me. So I ended up buying a Canon DSLR I think it was the 500 D originally. And so yeah, it just started to get a little bit more serious and you know, one of the things that is always fascinated me from some of my father's photography, but also, you know, some of the stuff that I've done at school was long exposure and how that gives you a different look and feel to the image rather than something that you know, it's Just to point out and shoot and get that instant moment, it was about, okay taking the time. And so I really started to develop that. And you know, see scaping really lends itself to that sort of, genre of photography, it's, it's really nice to see that flow, or that totally smooth water, as opposed to not saying that there's anything wrong with the frozen moment as the of the water, but from a aesthetically, I just, I just find it really pleasing to see that smoothing out of the movement of the water, etc. And, you know, that's, I guess what drew me back into that. And so I, I do a lot of it, because I enjoy it. I also enjoy getting up early in the morning now, not very early in the morning, but I don't mind it and enjoy seeing and being somewhere that not many people ask me, you know, I mean, even though Sydney's got, you know, five or 6 million people often go to the beach and see something that only a few 100 People might say, you know if that? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:03   Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, I think that's the thing, isn't it? Like, just because people gone there, they don't necessarily see everything. And as a photographer, we tend to observe more, because we want to look for something deeper, something that has connection with us. So you're absolutely right. I mean, here's the funny thing, I went down to my hometown, and I lived there for probably like, 12 years in my life, right? And I'm driving, we're driving in this road that I always drive, like, every single day, like you cannot not drive to that, you know. And just last month, when I was back, I was like driving like, wow, I didn't know there was a mountain, you know, like, right. And so you know, those kind of things you don't notice, until I started to do photography, and start to observe the landscape and everything around a little bit more and deeper. So it's crazy how much you take for granted. Yeah, I love hearing your story. You know, like, just how you got into photography. And it's something like it's been a long journey. How long have you been taking photography in general? Like, do you? Do you have a number? Grant Swinbourne  12:09   Yeah, not not really, I don't really count the, you know, the 10 year old photos in that though, you know, I guess some some people might, you know, and not because I'm ashamed of them or anything, because they were so bad. But I mean, they were, they were truly awful. I look at him now. And I go, you know, what was I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:31   we all have that kind of photos. Grant Swinbourne  12:32   Yeah, I guess I guess probably since 1984, taking a little bit more seriously. But that said, you know, having that hiatus with the, you know, the, the career and whatever that I had, you know, I got very absorbed in that, and I'd love doing it wouldn't wouldn't have swapped it, it's enabled me to, you know, financially secure my family and all that sort of thing. So, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot of good came out of concentrating on that not on photography now, could I've kept, you know, focusing on that a little bit more on maybe, but, you know, other things got in the way. And it just, it just got left behind. And it was an interest that it was not something that I felt passionate enough about at the time to really get into it. And so, I guess, in all seriousness, probably about 2004, was where I started to get a little bit more, you know, with digital, get get more, I guess, passionate about bringing it to the fore. And now, you know, the end of my career in terms of working I've basically finished work. Or working sorry, I finished working for somebody else in November last year. And so I decided, at that point, you know, financially we were fairly secure with, we're comfortable, we can survive without needing necessarily to make a lot of money. And so I thought, Okay, well, I'm going to make photography, the forefront and work for myself. And so I started doing workshops and started selling prints as you as you do, probably over the last couple of years have started to you know, try to build that brand a little bit. And part of that also, you know, last year with the lock downs that we had here, I couldn't travel more than five kilometres outside my local area for a period of about 165 days, I think, which basically was driving me nuts because there's no beaches within five kilometres of where I live. And so and, you know, I live in suburban Sydney, there's lots of houses, telegraph poles, and I know people take photos of that, but it doesn't drive my passion it does doesn't make me really want to get out there and take those sorts of shots. You know, there's no real parks. There's one with a little brown creek that doesn't look very attractive, you know, there's usually shopping trolleys, and those sorts of things lying around the banks of the hair. You know, so there wasn't a lot to photograph, or I didn't feel it was you know, and so what I did was I decided to start a podcast, you know, similar similar to yours, you know, talking to photographers about, you know, what drives them, and what makes them passionate. So, you know, landscape photography world was born almost exactly a year ago, I think it was the 21st of July, so, only a few weeks away from where we're recording this to, you know, to start building that as, as a means of starting to build the rest of the photography brand as well. So that people, you know, know who you are you, you start to get your name associated with other photographers, etc. And you get known in the photographic industry as well, I think so, part of that, it's really just about trying to try to help build that brand and get, get my name out there and also help promote others, because to me, you know, that act of helping others helps me, you know, aside from making, you know, my name, get out there more, you know, helping others get their name out there and get their photography seen. As we were talking, before we started, you know, one of the, one of the biggest issues for any photographer is their ability to get seen, and if you're not being seen them, you know, sales are going to be much harder, you know, whether they're NF T's or prints or workshops, you know, and so it is really about that hassle of getting your brand out there and people knowing about you, and knowing about what you what you're doing. So helping others do that. Yes, it helps me but it also helps them so familiar, it's a really important thing to do. And that's why I've got involved in in a number of other projects that I've done as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:51   Yep, fantastic, made, you know, I was going to bring out the podcast, because I know you're doing a podcast as well. And I'd like to know a little bit more about it. So I'm glad that you mentioned that. And I think what you mentioned there is really powerful, you know, like, you always when you give something out to other people, it will come back and, you know, one of the biggest thing that I'm the reason why I started this podcast was just like, I have a burnout, you know, back in 2020, I think so I just want to hear people's journey and understand, like, do they go through this thing? You know, what, what do they do to get out of it and all this stuff, right? So apart from you know, like what you say, of course, you get the benefit of getting associated with the photographer's you know, getting the exposure, but the cool thing about this is like, you get to listen about other people journey and what people struggle with. And, you know, it really helps you that you realise that you're not alone. So for listeners who feel like, you know, they haven't got to where they are, you know, they want it to be that, you know, everyone have their own journey that you got to trust your own journey and follow through with your own journey. Because if we all have the same journey, then we're no different than the computer or underworld being manufactured, we are not manufacture we're human, we're unique. So I think that's, that is so powerful that you share that, thanks for sharing that. Now, I know that you, I think that's really cool that you put, you know, looking at your journey, it's been a really, really long journey to fall into, you know, finally, more into full time based on photography and trying to get that brand up there. And I'm interested to hear this, right, because I know there's gonna be a lot of people out there who say, You know what, I'm getting too old. And, you know, and at the end of my, my, my life, and I'm retired, I don't think I can restart, you know, this passion of mine and stuff like that. But you decided to let you know, the photography kind of just brewing its own and you know, create its own momentum. And I think that's really cool. But you never, ever give up on it and just keep going, keep going. Exactly. Finally, you get to like, Do it, do what you love the most. wants everything secure. So what would you what would you say to those people who feel like it's, it's too late or, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not good with technology and all these things that come to their head that I know it's not true. Because I know a lot of people, you know, pick it up very quickly. And I teach workshops and courses as well. It's not that hard to learn, right, if they wanted to. Yeah, but what would you say to people who have that kind of mentality so that they can, you know, if they love photography, they can pursue that themselves without having that doubts? Grant Swinbourne  19:29   Yeah, I think, you know, making it a career is not necessarily for everyone, and not everyone should do it. And I'm not trying to put people off doing it because it's a tough business to get into. It's very crowded. There's a hell of a lot of people out there. And some will be better than us. Some will be worse than us photographically. And I think the key is to look at what it means to you as a photographer, if it means that you're able to, you know, create art And that's your primary driver, then pursue that and push that as hard as you can. If it's more about making money, then you know, you need to do different things necessarily, then just focus, you got to do the artistic piece as well. But then there's other things that you need to, you know, sit down and think hard about, you know, how do I, how do I sustain? And how do I diversify my income streams so that when people aren't buying prints, or, you know, attending workshops, or whatever, that you know, you've got other passive income streams coming in. So it's really, then you've got to actually have a bit of a business head on your shoulders to actually say, Okay, well, these are the things that that I need to do to actually make money out of them, probably one of the one of the hardest bits, I guess, in doing that is that need to be all things in that business, you know, you need to be not only the artist, but you know, first and foremost, you've got to be the marketer. So that you've basically got to be able to write some copy, and you've got to put together some kind of advertising, whatever that whatever that looks like, you know, these days, if you want to be on Instagram, you better be good at video editing. IT and technology is there to help you. And there are things that do make things like video editing, and so forth a lot easier. And even putting together together your marketing pieces. Yeah, there are things that can actually help you. So getting into that mindset of researching the tools that you need, building the skill sets that you need, so that you've actually got a set of skills that works in terms of being too late, it's never too late. Unless you there, once munchie dead, it's too late. But you know, so from my perspective, what you got to do is make sure that before you get there, get out there and do what it is that you're passionate about. Because if you're if you're not, if you're not actually, you know, doing what you're passionate about, then why are you doing it? And I guess, you know, for me, could I have done it earlier? Yes, probably would I've had the, the brain space and the skill set that I needed? Well, no, because I've built that up over time, you know, and it's really about getting to the right time, when you can actually do it now Should I've, you know, held onto some of that photographic passion during my other career, while there may be for me, that would have been at the detriment to other elements in the career. And so therefore, you know, I'm not sure that it would have worked for me to do it much earlier than I have. You know, it's I mean, it's really hard to say, and it's going to be an individual choice and an individual thing for everyone. And it's something that you've got to be really comfortable with, and something that you've got to make sure that you're passionate enough about to be able to see it through and have the energy that it takes to actually drive, you know, those marketing elements, and, you know, the, the business elements on top of the actual, you know, passionate pursuit of creating nice art, you know, that that in itself can be all consuming for some people, and they don't have any space for anything else. And, you know, for some people, you know, offloading some of those other things, like the marketing and so forth to other other people can help. But then that cost you money. So, unless you've got a family member that's willing to do it for you. So it's really, it's really hard to sort of give anyone advice without knowing their individual circumstance. But you know, from my perspective, it's really about making sure that you're, you've got the passion, you've got the desire to do it, and you feel that you've got the skill set. If you don't feel that way, then you're probably not ready. You know, it's, that's, that's the, the key thing, but the sooner you drive, to get those skills and get the elements lined up, that you need to line up, you just need to think about it from a planning perspective and say, okay, if I'm going to do this, these are the things that I need, you know, I need to know how to do marketing, I need to know how to do my own accounts. I need to I don't know how to do the administrative side of things, you know, if you if you're gonna make it a business, if you're not gonna make it a business, then it's, it's, they're more about, okay, well, how am I going to create good art? And that's really, okay. Well, once you've got the technical aspects of photography down, Pat, that's where the learning really starts. Because the technical aspects, you know, to me probably about, you know, 10 to 15% of learning photography, the real skill comes when you start to look at composition, quality of life and how that reacts to the landscape, you know, in talking about landscape photography, which is probably my main passion, but also, you know, equally that can work in, you know, portraits or you know, street photography. You know, portrait, at least I guess if you're in a studio situation, you can control the light. So very, very different. But if you're in the street, you know, that play of light and shadow is a key part of making your art look good, but also a key part of giving a feeling and telling a story. I think a lot, a lot of art really needs to tell that story to become to transcend from just being a nice picture to being something that you know, people feel and get a reaction from. Because if it's, if it's a nice picture, that's great, yes, you can hang that on the wall. But, you know, most people are only going to do that if they're feeling a connection with that image. And they're only going to do that if that image has some kind of, you know, I guess powerful elements in it that make you go Yeah, I feel something out of this, you know, whether it's happiness, sadness, or anger, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:54   Fantastic, wow, that's a whole lot of advice there. So, you know, even though you said that, it's hard to give advice, I think that's a really good advice to give is to start with a passion. I remember when I had that, that burnout, that was the biggest thing was that I forgot why I started to begin, why I started in the first place, right? So man, like, I truly agree with that. And, you know, like, you, I think you're right, you know, a lot of people think, you know, I started when I was 30. And nowadays, there's a lot of photographers who's like, 14, and you know, 13, and 19, and it's gonna be a different story, it's gonna be a different passion, it's gonna be a different thing. So, you know, don't try to love what you say, you know, like, everyone's different, everyone have their own story have their own journey, I think that's absolutely, absolutely true. And being able to understand, like, you know, the lights and composition, I think that is the two biggest thing that you can learn from photography, because, like you say, even in a studio, where you can control the light, you can't control anything that you don't understand. First. Grant Swinbourne  27:03   And to me, you know, whether you whether you look at that is another technical aspect in a studio situation, or whether you're, you know, whether you see that as something creative. Doesn't matter to me, but you're quite right, if you don't understand it, you can't control it, and you can't then, you know, work it so that you're actually getting the result that you're looking for. And some of my work is, you know, potluck, you know, because you happen to be in the right place at the right time. You know, there's many times I go out for sunrise, at a beach, for example. And, you know, it's just cloud on the horizon. You know, and or, you know, just the solid, overcast, despite the fact that I've looked at a forecast that says, yes, the, you know, there could be 80%, high cloud and no low cloud, you know, you get there and that's just low cloud, and it's just, you know, what am I doing here, but then sometimes that's where you go out and you find something different to shoot you. And you don't, the key is that by the time that you've taken, if you've taken the time to go out with your camera, and then, you know, the, for me, that's one of the key things is that you can then learn, okay? Like, let's say you're at a beach and you know, it's, it's a really crappy looking sunrise, that you're not going to get that bang, and that you were hoping for, well, don't get discouraged, because you can then take shots or the way flow maybe and get something out of that. You could look at details in the rocks and do more intimate abstracts, you know, there's a whole raft of different things that you can do with that time. And it's a really around that thought process of saying, Okay, well, okay, I'm going to cut off the the disappointment that I feel from, you know, the fact that the sunrise didn't happen the way I hoped it would, and focus on you know, other things that you can do creatively and, you know, it's taking that creative mindset out into the field with you. And then bringing that home into the post production side of things as well that really, I think transcends it from just being a photographer to being a really good photographer to potentially a great photographer, and you see the great photographers, they're taking every opportunity that they've got, you know, if if the conditions are particularly in landscape, if the conditions don't work for you do something different and change, change your focus from our bed like the sunrise didn't work for me, you know, I'm now going to try something a little bit you know, alternative to that sunrise and it's really about keeping that open mind and I guess learning to live with the disappointments that are gonna come because I've had some title failures of shoots where I go out and nothing you know, I've forgotten that I you know, the last shoot that I've done, you know, might have been an astro shoots and we're in right and I've left the the lens on manual focus, and I've got it set up in bold mode. And so I get there set up and I haven't changed it from bold mode and I haven't changed the order. And the first couple of shots is like that's a mess. So, what am I doing? You know, and it's about, you know, clicking, you know, curricula. So that might that might have been a week or so ago, you know, and you've just forgotten that. That's, that's how you left your camera, you know. And so you know, it's about clicking into gear and getting your head around that and getting focused again, on what it is that you're shooting and changing your, your mindset from, you know, whatever, whatever you were planning to shoot to what it is, you're going to do now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:25   Yeah, no, that's, that's, I think, that happens to the best of us. I know, it's still happened with me all the time. But I think it's just, you know, if you understand it, then you know, how to how to fix it. Right. So that's such a good advice there grant. And, you know, I want to talk about a community, you know, we we've been seeing that, in this industry, in photography, actually, in any industry, you know, especially nowadays, it's no longer about, you know, branding, and you know, having people just worship the brand, but now, it's about what you can give out to the community. And when you know, what I want to hear and learn from you. And, you know, like, you already mentioned, how you build the community, one of the things that you do to build a community is through podcasts. But there's a lot of, I know that you're doing a lot of different projects to build that community. So what I want to learn, what I want you to share with the audience so that they can learn from you is that what are the different ways for you to build a community and how important it is to build the community? Grant Swinbourne  31:28   Yeah, sure. I think in terms of community, there's, there's a number of different things that you've got to look at, you know, there's this the community, I guess, that you get, with social media and the following, and so forth, and interacting with your followers, whether they're fellow photographers, or whether they're, you know, just people that like your photography, or whatever, you know, interacting. So when somebody makes a comment, I make a point, you know, whether it's on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or whatever, I thank them on thanking them for the comment, you know, even if even if it's on, you probably should have composed that differently. You know, I accept that criticism, because, you know, in some people's eyes, what I've done isn't perfect, and that's okay. You know, and it's learning to be open to listening to to other opinions and people, that's really important. You know, particularly when, you know, they're part of your audience, and, you know, fellow photographers are part of your audience as well, because that's how people learn, you know, certainly, it's how I've learned is looking at what other people are doing. And, you know, in some cases, copying, you know, and or trying to replicate it, you know, to me, there's absolutely nothing wrong in that, yes, okay, everyone wants to create something unique, or we'd like to create something unique. But you know, if you're going to shoot the Sydney Opera House, how many unique angles are there for not many, you know, there's probably a few 100 that you could, places that you could stand to get a different angle of it. And, you know, the different lighting that you're going to get is going to depend on the time of day. So the point is, is that copying is a way of learning. And so, you know, looking at what other people are doing, helps you, and you have to recognise that other people are going to copy you. If you get any kind of notoriety out in the in the industry, you know, people are going to look at your work and go, I'd like to replicate that. How did you do that? You know, and that's, that's how you how you learn it. It's also one of the reasons why when I post a lot of the time, I will include my camera settings. So I'll put the EXIF up there, I'll tell you what camera and lens I'm using. I'll tell you, whether it's an exposure blend, or whether it's a single image, I'll tell you, you know, pretty much anything you want. And if anybody asks, and some people do, not many people do, but you know, some people ask, you know, how did you do that? And they'll tell you, if it's a composite, you know, there's no hiding, as far as I'm concerned and trying to say, Oh, this amazing image of a lighthouse on a point at night with the Milky Way behind it, you know, there's absolutely no way that you if you've got the lighthouse in front of you and the light shining, right that you can actually see the Milky Way a little and take a photo of it. Yeah, you might see a few stars, but you're not gonna get that Milky Way, you know, milk that you're going to see, you're going to have to make a composite of it to to actually make that work unless you got some amazing gear. That does something that I don't know that. So, you know, it's really about, you know, that that learning side of things is is a big part of community. Beyond that, I guess, in terms of building communities, I see that is really important and helping people promote their own work, you know, certainly has helped me both promote my work, but also it's helped me understand other people and get to know other people that I wouldn't have ordinarily come into contact with, you know, yes, you can sit there passively on social media, for example, and just look at like and whatever. And never, never engage with people to me. The word social in social media is Really the main point of it. So if you're not interacting with it in that way, you're not talking to people. You're not asking people questions, you're not commenting and saying, Yeah, well, I like this, but or I don't like that, you know? What's the point of being on social media, you know, if you're not engaging in that way, so, to me, building that community in that way, is important. And I guess this really came to the fore, probably about August, July, August, last year, I started to get into NF T's in a little way, you know, mental review items and so forth. And was trying to work out how that traction, I guess that, you know, needed to happen could happen for, you know, for me, personally, because, yes, I'd like to sell some NF T's and make some money out of it, because that was one of the things that a lot of people got into, but then recognise that, you know, to do that, you got to have actually have to communicate and the, you see comments from collectors of NF T's, you know, saying that one of the key things for them, aside from the feeling they get from the art itself, is the conversations that I have with the artists. And so getting that conversation going and getting people involved in that conversation is really, really important. And so I guess one of the things that I did a little bit of thinking, I saw some of the traction that some of the New Zealand photographers were getting in that NFT space, because they kind of the thing is they already had a community where a lot of them knew one another, a lot of them had shot together and so forth, because there are a smaller community than some other countries in the world. And I'm not saying I'm not saying that disparagingly, I'm saying that, because it's just the fact that we're smaller, they're a smaller country, smaller community, it's easier for them to get together physically, in a lot of ways, you know, than it is might be, it's really difficult for me to go and shoot with a guy in Perth, because it's a six hour flight away, you know, whereas someone in Sydney, I can ring up and we can connect and go and shoot, you know, which is great. But, you know, if you want that whole Australian experience, then you know, it's not all about Sydney, or Brisbane or Melbourne. It's, it's about the entire country. And so some of these guys getting some traction, because they were sort of supporting one another mainly in Twitter, retweeting, and so forth. And I had a bit of a think about it and thought, Okay, well, one of the ways that we could do this is we could actually create a collective of Australian artists and get them together to start promoting each other's work. Beyond that, we also saw the rise of things like on cyber, where you have these virtual galleries, you know, 3d galleries where, you know, either in VR or on just on a on a 2d screen, you can actually move around a virtual gallery space, looking at the art. And so I reached out to a number of people that I knew, but also some people that I didn't know, and asked if they'd be interested in submitting their work through a gallery. And so we did the first gallery, which was, I think, 44 pieces with 22. Artists, we then grew that to being 110 pieces in a much larger gallery, with 68 artists. And so from that developed, through the chats, a bit of discord, you know, conversation spaces and so forth, we started to build a, I guess, a photographic community within Australia, that was that self supporting and now we have, you know, a number of people joining, you know, group chats, and so forth, so that they can come into that fold and, you know, help promote one another's work, you know, so we, we talk to one another, you know, I guess it's offline a little bit, you know, it's still online, but it's, it's out of the public view, about what we're going to do, and then we go and do it. And in the public vein, it looks like there's, there's a bunch of guys or by guys and girls that, you know, sort of work together to try and promote one another's work. And so for me, a, it's really helped in not just providing work, but it's, it's helped in developing that community in that relationship with people, there's a connection there, and you know, that you can go to that person, you know, I know that there's been some, you know, technical issues that have come up with, you know, people's wallets, or on open sea or on foundation and whatever. And people have been able to help within that community to actually resolve some of those issues or give advice about how to resolve them. But there's also been some collaborations that have come out of it. And there's also been some work opportunities for one another where people who've gone out and helped on shoots or have helped with web design or help with, you know, building other projects. And so you know, that community building I think is is something that It's really important to be part of the community because we're, we're not individuals that are islands that are able to do everything ourselves. You know, some people are lucky and gifted that way, but not many of us. Certainly not. Yeah. And so by being able to lean on other people's skills and their knowledge and their backgrounds, you can actually, you know, bring your knowledge forward and bring your skill set forward. And you can learn a lot. And to me, you know, it's one of the things that I think, should be probably, you know, a mantra for everybody is never stop learning, you know, because if you stop learning, then, you know, you're not going to progress. You know, progress only comes through learning. And so it's really about educating yourself and educating other people with things that you may know, or they may know that you don't know. And it's that sharing of information that really, I find the most valuable part out of it, let alone any sales or whatever, which might come out of it. From a financial perspective. To me, the most enriching part is not the financial part, it's actually the learning. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:05   Wow, that is one whole lot of advice and wisdom there. Thanks a lot for sharing that grant. I think, you know, like, when I first started, especially like this, there was a time where I wanted to do like fashion photography and stuff. And there was a lot of this notion where, you know, like, we are competing against each other, and I think I'm really happy that especially in this NFT world, you know, even though I know that there are a lot of jealousy, a lot of, you know, a lot of competition and all that stuff, which, you know, I don't think we can ever get away from it, right? We're only human, but we're, we're seeing a lot more community based, where we help each other support each other. And what's really cool is that I feel like I'm, you know, that community translate translate back to, like, you know, the whole bigger community as well, you know, that's not only in the NFT. And I think it's really cool to be able to see people coming together, you know, without being scared or worried that you know, their their work, we're going to be competing against each other, but instead, just have that peace of mind and have that supportive nature to help each other. So, I always, you know, I'm very honoured to be part of the community, the Australian collective community. And, you know, it's awesome that you put everyone together to be part of that. And, like you say, it's not only, you know, we're able to help each other with the exposure, but we create, we're making friends, we genuinely creating connection with other people. I mean, that's why I have you here and get you share your wisdom. So yeah, this is I think this the really coolest thing about about photography, it's not only the photography itself, but we are, you know, the connection that you make out of that. So thanks a lot for sharing that grant. We're coming to the hour mark now. And one of the things that I always ask my, you know, my podcast guests is that if you have one advice that you can give to, to the audience, whether it's a life advice, photography, advice, or whatever it may be, what would that advice be, Grant Swinbourne  43:10   I guess, get started on what makes you, you know, happy, as quick as you can do it as early as you can. So, if you want to make a career out of photography, you know, make the decision, the key thing is making the decision. And once you've made the decision, that that's what you're going to do, then build a plan for how you're going to do it. Because very rarely do people go out and just do things, you know, building a plan, I think is absolutely vital. If you're going to try and make a living out of something, if you don't have a plan for it. And what you're going to do, if something fails, or something doesn't work the way that you'd like, you know, having that plan and having the backup plan or plan B plan C, having that plan is absolutely vital. So for me, you know, just get started, make the decision to you know, get into it, or, you know, make the decision that it's just gonna be a hobby, you know, and if it's just gonna be a hobby, and you're happy with that, stick with that, you know, but you know, make, make a decision about what it means to you as early as you can. And then don't forget that you can change your mind. And, you know, if decision AI is the wrong one, this is where Plan B and Plan C come in, you know, you can always go with decision B, you know, and say okay, well, it's not working as a business. So I'll keep it as a hobby, and I'll get on work and drive Ubers or whatever it is that you need to do to make the money to survive and keep shelter over your head and feed your family or whatever, you know that that's fine. Whatever it takes to do that. Then, you know, it's really up to you to make your path and decide how you want to how you want to fit this into your life. And if you want to make it all consuming and you want to make it your business and you want to make money out of it, then you know, warning is you might not but you know you You won't if you don't try, and if you don't start, so make that decision as early as you possibly can. And then, you know, go and do everything you possibly can to make it happen. Because if you're not doing everything you possibly can to make it happen, it'll never happen. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:13   Wow, that is a great advice. I wish you'd come to my life a little bit earlier in, in my life, Grant Swinbourne  45:20   I wish I'd made that decision. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:24   I think that it's really important to to be able to make that decision, you know, like, I know that I started this journey, because you exactly what you say I would rather you know, fail and go back to, you know, try something else rather than not knowing right? The what if, what if it does? Well, you know, what, if I, I, what if it worked out what if you know, all these things finally actually make, I can make things happen and actually do something that I really happy about? So, I think it's really powerful that you you mentioned that. And one of the things that's really cool is, you know, it's never too late. Right? Like, absolutely not. I love how you say, you can always change your mind, because that is absolutely true. You know, I take this seminar with Tony Robbins, and he's like one of the, you know, the best in mindset in life and all this stuff. And one of the things that he says, like, make decision quick and change slowly. Right. So what do you say that really hits that home? And I think in many cases, we're just too scared of you know, what could have gone wrong, but a lot of that is just in our head. So that is great advice. Great advice. Grant Swinbourne  46:31   Yeah. I remember, probably one of the one of my favourite sayings is that if you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:44   that's, that's very true. You know, it's all about how you believe in yourself. And your, your, your belief, I'm going to drive everything. While the grant, it's been a really nice conversation. I love getting to know you, I love getting to know your story. And I love hearing all of your wisdom. It's been amazing, you know, just hearing all of this things that, that you draw back from your experience, and hopefully, you know, we can hunters who are listening to this podcast, can draw that inspiration when they're not sure of which way to go. Because I think you're absolutely right. You don't have to do this full time. I think, you know, it takes a lot of a certain personality for people to enjoy full time. But yeah, it's like, I've never met anyone who doesn't enjoy photography, if they can do it, right. I think because Grant Swinbourne  47:32   it's not like golf, golf can frustrate the hell out of you. Yeah. To a certain degree, if you know, but I think I've applied golf, and I get a lot more satisfaction out of photography than I do at a golf. A lot more frustration out of golf than I do out of photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:52   Awesome. Yeah. So for the audience who want to learn more about you connect with you and you know, want to see more of your work, what is the best way for them to, to connect with you and, guys, I will, you know, like always, always, I will always have that link in the description. So if you need to, you know, click on it or want to go to it, it's right there. But what is the best way to connect with you? Grant Swinbourne  48:16   You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. Brands, if you're looking for grand Swinburne photography, you should be able to find me. Also, you can you can find my podcast, landscape photography world, anywhere where you get podcasts. There's also a YouTube channel where that it's the grand Swinburne photography channel on YouTube, where you can listen to episode see the teasers and so forth. So, you know, pretty much any, any social media I don't do Tik Tok though, so, because video really isn't my thing. But, you know, that's, that's, that's me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:53   Fantastic. Well, thanks a lot, Grant. You know, it's been a great conversation. And thank you for being here. Grant Swinbourne  49:00   Thank you very much for having me sale. It's been an absolute pleasure. And I look forward to talking to you from the other side of the microphone on landscape photography world at some point. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:10   That will be interesting. I'd love I'd love to have that. But yeah, it's been a really great conversation. I really enjoyed this podcast. So thank you for it for the time that you've spirit. To Stanley. Thanks very much, Matt. All right weekend as well. Thanks a lot for listening. And I'm glad that you tuned in today. You know, Grant has been grant stories has been inspiring from when he started his photography to like taking it seriously to where he is right now. pursuing it full time. I think it's one of the coolest journey that I've heard and he said it himself you know, all you have, all you need is that to believe in yourself whether you can or no, it's really up to you. So I think that's such a really cool thing that he brought up at the end of this to wrap everything up. But if you haven't hit the subscribe button and do so so that you can hear next people and the next thing points story as well as their journey. on how to you know pursue not only photography full time but if you only want to do it as a hobby you know there's a lot of guests in my podcast that doesn't really do it full time so hit that subscribe button and I'll see you guys next week all right well until next time weekenders  

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another episode of the art of photography Podcast. Today I'd like to introduce to you Yulia Denisyuk. Yulia Denisyuk is an award-winning travel photographer and writer who turned to travel journalism after working as a US Navy Sailor and a Fortune 500 brand manager. Yulia's work appears in National Geographic Traveller, TIME, Conde Nast Traveler, BBC Travel, Lonely Planet, and more. For past assignments, she's shared a roof with nomads in Mongolia, traced the origins of Iznik tiles with artisans in Turkey, and learned the art of Imigongo with artist collectives in Rwanda. Yulia is the founder of NOMⴷD + JULES, a small-group travel company with trips to the Middle East. She's also the founder of Travel Media Lab, a platform for women and allies in travel media, where she teaches the Introduction to Travel Journalism program and runs a membership for travel photographers and writers. Yulia frequently speaks at conferences and events and teaches various travel media topics at workshops around the world. She's kind enough to give those who tune in a special offer:  Get your free guide to publishing your travel stories here: https://travelmedialab.co/start    If you want to learn more about Yulia's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insearchofperfect  Twitter: https://twitter.com/YuliaDenisyuk_ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Insearchofperfect  Websites: travelmedialab.co - Travel Media Lab website yulia-denisyuk.com - Yulia's portfolio nomadandjules.co - Trips to Jordan   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------- Transcription: Yulia Denisyuk  0:00   If I didn't really see any other way, you know, it was just and it really started getting me into this existential crisis almost because I really made it in a traditional sense of the word I had great salary at that point. I was I was a brand manager at a big corporation in the US. But I was just so unhappy inside and so miserable. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:31   Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of photography podcast, where we share our passion in photography and how photography given us purpose and happiness. And today, we have somebody who's not only a photographer, but a professional travel writer as well. Not only she has won awards on both areas, she's also been featured in many, many publications, such as national geography. She's a great artists great friend, and I can't wait to get to know her more. Hello, Yulia. How are you doing? Yulia Denisyuk  1:10   Hi, Stanley. I'm doing well. So, thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast. I'm excited to chat with you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:17   Yeah, I mean, you know, we've been connected for quite some times. And I think you know, I haven't really get to know somebody until either meet them or in person or have them in my in my podcast, and you know, you are you have such an interesting and incredible stories from your travels. So I couldn't wait to hear more about it. Yeah, so you know, like, I've heard this story. From this, you're probably tired Yulia Denisyuk  1:49   of hearing over this story, because you already heard this story so much. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:53   Only heard you once from the from the from the space there was like, wow, I didn't know a lot about you know, more, a lot more about you. And that's why I got you to do podcast as soon as I heard that. So tell me what's sparks your interest in travel? Right. You know, in travel, first of all, and how photography and writing transpires through your life, you know, from your love of traveling? Yulia Denisyuk  2:25   Yeah, well, first of all, I'm just so glad that we're doing this because I think we both were following each other on Instagram. And then I heard you on clubhouse, and we were in the same rooms on clubhouse. And then we were in spaces on Twitter. So now we're finally on a zoom together, I just love this whole, like, legend that allows us to do this, you know, I'm sitting in Chicago, you're in Bali, and we're having a conversation, and it's pretty awesome. So thank you for that. That's really cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  2:55   Yeah, it's, it's been a pleasure, you know, like you say, we've been connected back and forth, but never really have that quality get to know each other. So, and I know, like, I've been following your travel as well. And, you know, I've been jealous, you know, seeing where you go. And seems like we haven't really find a place where you can meet even though we both travel a lot, but hopefully, you know, now that the COVID kind of behind us. It's going to be a lot easier to meet each other. But yeah, I'm so excited to have you here and hear your story because your story is very inspiring. And is you know, every time I hear your story, it's always fuel me up. So yeah, let let the audience know, what is that sparks that really ignite your passion? Yulia Denisyuk  3:48   Thank you. Thank you, Simon. Yeah, so I I've been obsessed with travel ever since I was little. Because I was born and Kazakhstan, Central Asia. And I grew up in Estonia, actually, which is one of the European countries now. So ever since I was a little girl, I would travel back and forth between Kazakhstan and then Estonia, on this huge train journey that will take me you know, five days all throughout the Estonia, Russia, Kazakhstan. And that's when my lot of trouble really started. I was little I was still a child, you know, and I just loved looking out the window and seeing seeing the steppes of Kazakhstan, the fields, the forests, the camels, because as you go south in Kazakhstan, you start seeing camels and stuff. And that's what I remember. And I will also remember feeling like I didn't quite belong anywhere, because when I you know, I was born in Kazakhstan, but I moved. When when when I was three, we moved to Estonia. And so I didn't quite belong to Kazakhstan. anymore. But in Estonia, I also didn't belong because I wasn't born there. I was from Kazakhstan. Yeah. And so I, from the early age, I had this feeling that I'm sort of in between, I'm not I don't belong to anywhere, but I belong everywhere kind of situation, you know, because Estonia and Kazakhstan, they were really different, even in the Soviet time, because, you know, when I was born in the Soviet Union, even in that time, Kazakhstan was very central Asian, you know, if you think of places like was Pakistan, Tajikistan, you know, even closer to Afghanistan, that kind of culture. And of course, Estonia is very European. So it's very different. And I felt this urge to know different people know, different places and cultures from a very early age. And so, you know, the Slav forester was was with me from the beginning. But when I came to the States, I was, I was 16, when I came here, and I was put on the path that many people go on, which is a very traditional path, you know, as immigrants, we have this pressure to succeed in the most traditional sense of the word, you know, get a good job, get a good education, you know, get a good salary, a house, a mortgage, a car, like all those things, you know, and that was the role that I, I followed, because that was, you know, that was laid out in front of me, but I found myself, by the time I was 30, I found myself increasingly questioning why the hell do I go to work every day. I hated it. I hated all the meetings, I hated PowerPoint, I hated everything doing. But I didn't really see any other way. You know, it was just and it really started getting me into this existential crisis, almost because I really made it in the traditional sense of the word, I had great salary at that point, I was I was a brand manager at a big corporation in the US. But I was just so unhappy inside and so miserable. So finally, in 2016, or 2015, rather, my health started falling apart, my back started having issues, I couldn't even show up at the office anymore, I couldn't even sit down at my desk at the office, that's how bad it got. And I was working at a really stressful job at that point. And, you know, everything sort of came together and this huge, sort of point of burnout and stress. And I one day, I just decided, You know what, I need to try something different, because this isn't working. And that's when I decided to try to become a travel photographer and writer because that's something I've always loved. You know, as much love for travel was developing my love for photography, and storytelling was developing to ever since I was little, I was writing stories. I had my first camera when I was 10 years old. And I was always taking pictures, you know. So that was always there. But I never saw it as a path as a real path in life to pursue. But yeah, when I was 30, I decided that, you know, now we're never try it, try it out and see what happens and, and go with it. And I did, and I'm so glad that I did. Because I've never been happier than I am right now. You know, doing what I love really having the freedom to work on the projects that I want to work on. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll get into it, because it hasn't been easy. Also, it's not it's not as easy and glamorous, but it's as it sounds, and looks like on Instagram and stuff. But still, for me the it's just so much it's worth it's so much because I've never been happier than I am now. You know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  9:00   Yeah. Wow. You know, it's it's really funny, because every time you know, I hear you talking, I just see myself, you know, you're just, I could, you know, I mean, our story is not exactly the same, but feeling the same, same way, you know, I left my engineering career for the same reason as well. So I know exactly how you feel. But was there ever a day in you know, from from that time because I just you're telling me that you're a brand manager for a big company and you have this pre comfortable lifestyle? You've made your way up there and you feel like you made it right. Feel like everything that your parents and everyone else told you that dream life? It's like it's there, right? But was there? What was that one thing that really make you what was that one thing that makes you go over the plate right? The one thing that makes you cuz you said that you're thinking about this for a while you already knew photography for a while you love writing. But what was this one thing that would make everything click and make you just run for me? Yulia Denisyuk  10:15   It was it was travel, honestly, because the thing is that when I was working, and I was back home working, I felt like zombie, I felt like I'm dead. And every time I would book a ticket, and I would go somewhere, I felt so alive, I felt so like, full of ideas full of creativity, full of energy. And the contrast was just so big, you know, every time I would book a ticket and go somewhere, I'm like, Yes, you know, I want this, I am alive, I want more of this. And every time I would come back, it always just went down, down down the hill. And, you know, it was becoming more and more extreme, really, these two lives that I was leading. And the thing is that in the US, and I don't know, in other countries that may be different. But in the US, the policy for workers is really bad, because we get two weeks vacation a year, really five, Business 10 Business days, occasionally years when we get and for somebody like me for whom trouble is such a big part of my life. That's never enough. Like, you know, this, right? It's not enough at all. So I got to the point, it got to a point that I was doing some really ridiculous things. Like, for example, I'm here in the States, and I'm looking, I'm taking Friday off, I'm taking Monday off, and I'm flying to Dubai for a weekend. You know, and just trying to satisfy that urge, somehow. And then, you know, Monday night, I'm back in the States from Dubai, you know, I'm jet lagged. And Tuesday, I show up at work. And I'm like this, you know. So it got to that point. And I was like, There's no way that you know, something has to change, because those two lifestyles were just so different. And I don't tell this story that often, but to be honest, the biggest thing that's put me on this path was actually something bad that happened to me, because in all honesty, it's really hard to quit your job and go after something like this. It's really hard. It's so scary. And if you have bills, if you have family obligations, whatever, like, how can you say no, I'm just going to drop it all and go and pursue the dream, it's really difficult, you know. So I think that's probably if this thing didn't happen to me, I would still continue being in corporate right now. And still being miserable in my job, because, again, it's really scary to do that. But what happened to me was that the brand I was working on at the time, it was struggling for many years, it wasn't doing well, the sales were declining, and you know, in corporate, they tell you that they care about you, but really, they don't care about you, they care about profits, and they need to find somebody to, to put the blame on for whatever's happening, you know, and so the company and my team, I was the person so they fired me, actually, they let me go. And at that time, I had a choice, because I was, you know, this was a really big, reputable company. And I could have called the recruiter and said, Hey, find me another job, you know, because I had good, I had a good degree from I had an MBA, I had a good experience with multiple companies. So I would have found another job really easily. But that was like this pivotal moment for me, because when they let me go, they gave me a separation package too. Which would gave me some cushion to start something something different, you know, and that was really my sign, plus my health problems, plus all the stress and everything I was going through. So that was the sign for me to say, okay, you've been given this chance, use this chance and try something new. And I'm so happy that I did. But again, like just I want to be real with you. You know, we talk about this, quit your job and pursue your dream. But really, in reality, it's so hard, like how do people actually do it? If you have bills, if you have a family to feed or whatever, you know, whatever your situation is, it's really difficult. So I want to be real with people it's not, you know, because the thing is that being a freelancer and working for yourself, it is hard, you guys, people don't want to pay attention to you at the beginning. You have to spend so much time building your brand, building your client base, like all of those things. It is it is not it is not easy. It's not easy. So you have to have some kind of a plan, right? Whether it's savings that you can live on for some time, you know, whether it's doing some part time kind of work that can get you by whatever it is, you know, let's be real. It's not just as simple as quit your job and start working on your dream, you know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  14:57   Yeah, it's man like, you know, I, I always wanted to get fired. Yulia Denisyuk  15:04   It really is good. Right? They give you a separation back. And it's so good. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  15:08   I know, I never got that. But it's it's so funny when you say that it's like, you know, that must been quite a relief to finally, you know, have that decision because you're right. You know, I'm single person and I, at that time, I think you know, I have a house. So there is a little bit obligation there. But you know, I could have I was renting it. So it wasn't as big obligation. And even for me, finding that decision to just drop everything and start off by living off my savings is just one of the scariest thing to do, right? Because it's something that we like, for me, at least, I never have to worry about money because I that's the only thing I think about, right? It wasn't about travel about happiness, about your fulfillment in life, it's just about surviving and thriving. And, you know, that was the only thing I ever lived for. So when I have to quit my job, and stop thinking about, you know, surviving and just, you know, try to be happy and have a fulfilled life. Yeah, that's really, really scary, scary, scary moment in my life. But when you say that, I know exactly what you mean. And you know, like, like, like you say, you know, people, there are a lot of promises being thrown around in the internet saying that, yeah, you know, like, do this and you'll be happy. This, I one thing that I always say in my social media, that it's not life for everyone. But I think if you've been stuck in your, you know, day to day and mundane lifestyle, and you love changes, and you love to do on the go, why not give it a try, right? We got nothing to lose, you could always go back to your corporate life, a year after two years, 10 years, whatever it may be, there's always a chance like, you're still never gone away. I think it was three years into what I'm doing this, you know, at my lowest point, I actually got offered my engineer, work back. And I was like, it's very tempting, but I didn't take that. Because you're right. You know, this is if this is what you love for however much you however hard it is. You still going to keep going because that's what energizes you. So thanks for sharing that. Yulia. I know it's in my sometimes it's hard to share our, you know, our difficult stories. But it's good that people can see the struggle behind it. So I'm quite interesting on your origin this right. I know I'm a big advocate for people to pursue their dreams and leave their job, even though it's one of the hardest thing ever. If somebody come up to you and ask that question, right? Well, Yulia, I feel like I'm really stuck in my work. And I have this dream that I want to pursue whatever it is, whether it's photography writer, becoming a painter, whatever it is, but how would you recommend you know those people to approach it? How do you think that it's better to just pull the plug, you know, start off easy and doing it as part time? How do you think people should approach it both mentally? And also, you know, financially, especially for those people who feel like they have a lot of what they call it? A lot of responsibilities that they have in their hand? Yulia Denisyuk  18:56   Yeah, so that's a really important question. Because yeah, that's That's exactly it. Right? How do we practically do it? So I think, and this is what I always recommend to anyone I talk about on this subject is that you have to start with having a really good understanding of what it is that you're trying to accomplish, what is your vision, what are you trying to do? And that also can be easier said than done? Because sometimes people only know that, you know, I hate whatever this is, but I don't know what this next thing can be. So I will address both of these situations because, you know, you would approach them differently. But in the case that you know, you want to change and you know what you want to do? You have some idea you want to be become let's say my case, I knew I wanted to be a travel photographer that that's one sentence. I knew like I want to be a travel photographer. I want to work with National Geographic, that's what I knew. But turns out that even that is not quite enough because you don't really know how to like what What should your next step be? Because yeah, you can reach out to National Geographic. And by the way I did, and I never heard back from them. Because, you know, I had no portfolio I had no, I had nothing at that point, I was just starting out. So yeah, they didn't respond to me, which is fine, you know, I am not, I'm not mad at them. So you need to spend some time and writing out your vision in the year in three years and five years? What is it that you see yourself doing? Who do you want to work with? Where do you want to be? What kind of work do you want to do? You know, all that is really important, because it's going to give you that guidance to say, Okay, if that's where I will be in five years, what steps do I need to take now to get there in five years, and then start working on that, and start really small too, because again, like you can reach out to National Geographic right away, but they're probably just going to ignore you. Because you don't have a portfolio, you don't have anything. So you need to start at little by little. And you build that by working with some smaller names, smaller brands, maybe smaller assignments at first and grow, you know, little by little. So that's one thing. And then to the people who paid with whatever situation is happening, but they don't know how to get to, or like they don't know, they don't know, they don't have the idea of the vision for themselves. I would say, start exploring different curiosities that you have. Right, because we always talk about find your passion, love Allah. But finding a passion is a really, really big thing. And it's so much pressure also, like, don't put so much pressure on yourself, you know, start small, like, what are you curious about what sparks some interest to you right now, go pursue that, try that, you know, try many different things. And little by little, you will find some answers to what it is that you want to be doing. And for that, you don't have to quit your job, right, you can do that on the weekend, for example, or you can do that at night, perhaps or early morning, you know. So that's that. But then practically, I always recommend to people to have some sort of backup plan, don't quit cold turkey, because that's going to put so much pressure on you. And again, at first. And that's true for everything, whether you're starting a business, a company, whether you're starting as a freelancer, or as a creator, it takes in most cases takes years to build something from from zero to wherever you want it to be. So don't expect that, you know, you quit your job today. And tomorrow, you're gonna get all the clients that you need to pay your bills, because unless you already have some sort of network, some sort of base, it's not gonna happen overnight, like that. So I always say, if that's your goal, if you want to eventually move out of your current career at your current job, either start saving, or start looking for part time opportunities that will still allow you to pay the bills, let's say and do something as you're building this new thing that you're doing. That's, that's a much better way to do it, then just quit and try to figure things out and be stressful as heck. And, you know, get even more stress and burnout for you. Because that's not healthy as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  23:10   Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. Because, you know, when you stress out and you burn out, you're never gonna, you can't be creative and you can't create. So, you know, if your goal is to get out of this life that you hate, then you know, if you don't have that backup plan, and you have all that stress, then it's not going to help you. But one thing that you say that I really love, and, you know, I think not most of us don't say Enough of this curiosity, I think that is that is definitely the path to finding your passion because you're right, you know, it's funny, because there's so many times where people, you know, younger people kind of look up to me and ask me, it's like, Stanley, you know, you found this beautiful passion, how do you find it up? You know, I've spent 20 years trying to look for us, it's like, don't, you can't just sit and find it. You just have to try different things and see what really energize you. That's what passion means. Right? So I'm not that you mentioned that. So I am curious, Yulia, you know, you say this, this curiosity. So you know, and of course, from travel, writing and photography made sense, right. And as well as you know, you say that since you were a kid, you have a lot of exposure on this. When you decided to leave when you find that courage to leave that life behind, what how did you get started, you know, into what was the first project that get you started and that gives you the confidence that You can do this. Yulia Denisyuk  25:03   I'm laughing because my first ever paid article was for a magazine that no longer exists. And they paid me for it hours. And but it was huge for me. No, it was huge, because I was like, oh my god, somebody's willing to pay me for live photos. And my images, like that was so huge. And it was an article on Koh Yao noi, which is one of the smaller islands in in Thailand. And my path, my plan was that, you know, when I quit, you know, when that whole transition happened, you know, they let me go, they gave me the package. I did some math in terms of how long would that package last me. And I said, Okay, I need to go to some places where the cost of living is much lower than it is in the States. In the States. That package wouldn't last me very, very long. So my plan was that I will go to I went to Vietnam, I spent some time there. I went to Thailand. And very importantly, I started building my photography portfolio there. You know, I taking a lot of images a lot a lot. I still have like this huge portfolio from back then it was a six month trip. And that's how I use it. I was really taking photographs everywhere. Because before that, yeah, I was taking photos for sure. But you know, it was a bit more sporadic than that. And by the way, I know a lot of writers and photographers who do it that way who use some sort of a big trip to beef up their initial portfolio with ideas with stories with photographs that they can then start approaching, you know, on these publications when so yeah, so I was Thailand. I wasn't I was staying on Koh Yao noi, I loved the island. It's one of the lesser known islands. And yeah, I approached this publication. I don't even remember how I found them. But I approached them i I said I wanted to write a story about this island. And you know, they took it. And yeah, they paid me for hours, which is really low. I don't recommend anyone to be selling their work for that low. But you know, it was huge for me because it was my first ever paid article. And the other thing that happened that that sort of gave me this. You look for signs in the universe? Am I on the right path? Is this really happening? Like, is there a potential here for me? Should I keep going? And by the way, you should keep going, you should absolutely like not quit because the other thing is that I think people quit too soon. Because we are in such an impatient society where we just want things happen right away. And when things aren't happening right away, we just quit. You know. And, you know, if you look at any stories from actors, any any stories from creative careers, some actors who are very well known to them, and they it took them years to get discovered to have the role that which changed their lives. And all of that, you know, and it's the same for us as well. So where was I going with that? Hold on? I had I was going somewhere with that. Oh, yeah. So the other thing that happened, so the first one was that article, the 48 hour article. And the second thing that happened that as I was going through that six month trip, I was sharing on Instagram, you know, and at that point, Instagram was a much better place to be discovered than it is today, you know, and that could be a topic of another episode, because you know, talking about discoverability on Instagram, it's really hard, right? But I was on Instagram, I was sharing my my, my stories, my photographs. And I was using a hashtag of one of the magazines that I absolutely love, which is a far, far magazine, they are on Instagram to their hashtag is traveling. And I've been reading that magazine for years and years, I had a dream one day to work with them, you know, but so I was sharing my work and hashtag travel deeper. And once one day, I receive an email in my inbox saying a farm magazine reaching out for an interview. And I almost fell from my chair because I'm like, wait, what? You know, but at that point, they had a, I don't think they do it anymore. But they used to have this column where they would feature in travelers on Instagram with stories, photographers, people who are creative, you know? So they reached out to me that they had an interview with me and it felt incredible to be you know, to do that. And after that, I told them, hey, I would love to work with you guys on some stories. Would you be open to that? And they said, Yeah, sure, pitch us pitch us your ideas. And that's how I started working with a fire magazine. You know, so when that happened when my dream magazine that I've been reading for years and years before when they reached out to me, it was like, oh, okay, maybe there is something here, maybe I have some potential, maybe what I have to say, is resonating with people, you know. So that was really important for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  30:19   Yeah, that's awesome to hear, you know, like, I think we don't give us enough credit. I know, I don't, I'm very hard on myself. And we don't celebrate those small wins. But if you, you know, have that small wins, and you put them together, it become a big momentum. And, you know, I mean, look at you today, right? You were writing for a magazine that was no longer there. And you know, so, you know, like, you kept going and you kept going, you know, those small wins really add up? Even if it only gives you that confidence, right? No exposure, no, no money value or whatnot. But that's, that's incredible. So afar magazine was, was the very first magazine that you got into and that was the groundbreaking. believe that's, that's incredible. So when you go into this trip, and this journey, right, into trying to see whatever you're doing have potential. Was there ever a time where you have to choose between writing and photography? Because I know you love both? Was there ever a crosswalk where you go? You know what I think I need, I might need to focus on one or the other. Is that ever crossed your mind? I don't Yulia Denisyuk  31:50   know if never did because, and I know there are different schools of thoughts on this. Some people would say no, you need to do one thing and do it. Well. If you do more than one thing, you're not doing anything? Well, I don't believe about that. I'm, I am what you call a multi passionate person. Oh, no, sorry, not multi passionate. The word the term is multi potential light, multi potential, meaning I have potential in multiple areas. And the person I heard it from which by the way, you should interview, She's incredible. You maybe you know her, her name is Lola I can make. She's a huge, huge inspiration for me in this industry. She's a photographer, she's a writer, she's an educator, she's a TEDx speaker, like she has a book, she wrote a book, like She's incredible. And on my podcast, I've actually interviewed her. And I was asking her kind of a similar question like, how do you do all these things? Because, you know, you're you're excelling at all of them, actually. And so that's when that's when I heard that term, multi potential light, you know, and people are different, right? Somebody is really thriving, when they focus on one thing and do that well, and go deep in that. I thrive in doing different things. I'm an entrepreneur as well, as are you right? You were telling me about the project that you're working on right now, which is super cool. I am building a company right now, too. I am an NFT. Artist, I am a writer, I'm an educator. I speak at conferences, right? And I'm striving doing all those things. So no, it was never a choice for me that I should do one or the other. And in fact, I feel like for this for my industry, which which is travel media industry, right? I have I have an advantage because I can, I can offer both services to any client be the magazine, being a tourism board, a travel company, I can divorce I can write, I can take pictures, I'm not as good with video. And people have been telling me for years that I should start doing videos, I'm still not there. I don't know if I ever will be. But you know, writing and photography, I'm your person. And I want to say I want to comment on something you said before, which is about being hard on yourself. Man, Stanley like, I'm resonating with that so much. And up until recently, I was really bad at celebrating my wins. And acknowledging how tough how far I've come. And that has really come from the change of starting to celebrate and starting to acknowledge it has come from. I started teaching two years ago during COVID. And I teach travel photography, writing how to get into the industry. And when I was preparing for my first class, I was like, I need a framework. You know, I need some sort of a framework to apply to how I'm going to teach this class like I know what I want to teach but I want to put it into like a package and so frame worth. And so I was looking for different frameworks out there. And finally, I found one framework, which is called Dragon dreaming, Dragon dreaming. And I'm like, what is that? That sounds cool. So I started researching about it. And dragon dreaming is a framework that's used in, in operations in different like consulting circles around the world, and is based on Pacific Islander indigenous philosophy of New Zealand and Australia and you know, Aboriginal knowledge and wisdom. I'm like, Wait, why that sounds like, you know, like, how do you marry those two? That sounds very interesting. So anyhow, long story short, I started researching and the dragon dreaming framework is, has four phases. Dream, plan, do celebrate. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  35:59   Dream Yulia Denisyuk  36:00   plan, do celebrate. And that when I saw that, I was like, Oh, my God, yes. Right. Because I already believe that we need to dream first, right? Like I was saying earlier, we need the vision. Where are you trying to go? Where are you trying to be five years from now? Okay, now, the vision now you need to plan? How are you actually going to get there? You know, what are the steps you need to take, but that's not enough. After you plan, you need to actually do the things if you don't do the things, nothing happens. But even that is not enough. Because extremely powerfully, they say that celebration phase has to be as much as the other three phases. And I'm even getting goosebumps now talking about it. Because in our lives, we never give celebration that much time. Never, we may stop for a second and say, oh, yeah, great, great job. But this isn't the same like dream phase, Plan phase, do space and braid. They're equally as long which when I when I read that, I was like, oh my god, this is huge. And they were talking about why celebration for that long is so important for us. It is huge for our growth, actually, it is huge for restoring our energy. It is huge, like consoling different levels. And so when you said that, like you know being hard on yourself and not celebrating the wins. I, my whole philosophy on that shifted when I came across that because now I'm very intentional on celebrating on keeping track of my wins. Actually, I have a document. Anytime everybody's anybody says something on my podcast on social media, a client I worked with, I literally copy paste that into this document. And when I feel really bad, or something's going wrong, you know, we all have those days, right? I just opened that document and I read it and I'm mine myself. Okay, what you do matters. You're doing great, don't worry, like keep going, you know, all those things. So, yeah, sorry, I went on a tangent, but this is a topic that I'm really really passionate about as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  38:01   No, that's beautiful. i I'm having getting goosebumps as well. And you know, like, cuz I resonated with that. You know, I think it's, it's the culture, this fast paced culture that we always need to go for something bigger, right, that you know, if it's, if it was $40 article written by a magazine that's not there, it's it doesn't matter can I think, right, because we see people on Instagram, a posting bigger and bigger, but Yeah, and like, yeah, I totally agree. You know, I don't I only start celebrating because I took a seminar by Tony Robbins, and there was one of the things like, okay, wouldn't have thought, you know, that's the one thing that you know, they talk about, but yeah, it's really important for your mental health. But what I didn't know, though, that we meant to celebrate the same as ending and doing this this crazy, you know, it's, it reminds me to celebrate more because, yeah, that's Wow, it's just mind blowing. I think it has to do with, you know, our upbringing as well. I know for me, I live in a culture where you know, it's never good enough, right? That Asian culture is always like, you could have getting something bigger something more expensive or then you know, so that could be it as well. But he had that's a really good reminder I'm gonna look into that that's a really cool thing. Yulia Denisyuk  39:32   Yeah, so definitely look, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  39:34   you're telling me this now you know, you started you started falling into teaching during COVID after you become a successful what you call a travel and writer photographer. How did you fell into that? Was there any thing that transpires that make you that that take you into that path or was there a different things That makes you want to teach? Yulia Denisyuk  40:02   Well, I've been, I've been thinking about teaching for for a while. And you know, it really came from people always asking me the same as on Instagram. How do you work with National Geographic? That's like, number one question. Everybody wants to know that, which I understand, right? And so of course, like, if it makes sense. And so I was kind of tired. I'm just always, you know, answering the same question over and over again, because the truth is that you cannot answer do you work with National Geographic? Or how do you get published national in one sentence? Or in one DM? It's impossible? Because you're asking me to tell you the answer that took me six years to work on. And people expect that like that one quick secret or something, you know, and it just doesn't work like that, right? Like when you're building a career, and it's like this in any field, right? If you want to become a doctor, if you want to become a lawyer, you need to go through training you need to build, you need to do a lot of things. But somehow when we talk about creative careers, it's always okay. There's got to be some sort of a secret or something, you know. So I was tired of sort of always hearing that question, and always giving the same answer. And, but the thing is, I never had enough time to really dedicate to finding a framework or thinking about what I should teach her how to teach it. Yeah. So of course, when COVID happened, and all trouble stopped, we all had the time on our hands to do the things we never had time to do. And so that's when I started, I started with something small, I had a, I had a really small email class, and I still offer that email class, which is like really basic beginner level. And then I wanted to develop like a bigger, like a masterclass kind of offering that will teach you everything I know about the industry. But I'm gonna say something important, I think, which is that I didn't know how to teach. I didn't know if I was any good at teaching. So what did I do? I took a class that taught me some of these things, it taught me how to teach it. So it taught me how to structure a masterclass. And, you know, that's how I built my very first masterclass. And I will say this, because I think it's really important. We are so fortunate these days that we have so many people offering their knowledge and expertise for us in any topic or area like, right, you can go to masterclass.com, you can go to Skillshare, whatever many platforms, and people who will teach, you will share with you anything you want to learn. And I think it's important to use that because there is nothing that I teach in my class that you can't figure out on your own. But it's going to take you years probably to figure it out, right? Because again, it's my experience, it's my mistakes, it's my everything. And it took me years really there. So you can do that. If you don't want to, you know, invest into an education like that, no, by all means, do it by yourself, but just know that it's going to take your time and efforts to figure it out. Or you can sort of get a shortcut and learn from people who have done it, and who are going to teach you everything they know, I'm now in trouble. And by the way to this day, I'm still buying workshops, classes from people because I know like, Okay, I could I could spend a year trying to figure out how to become a better teacher and how to structure my class, or I can save the classroom somebody and do it faster. And in one week. I know, I know more, you know, so I'm a huge and maybe because I'm maybe I'm biased because I'm also in this industry now of teaching. And I know, I'm learning more about how it works. And I love it so much, but I'm a huge supporter of all the different educators out there because I think it's amazing that we can we get to do that now. And there's literally almost no barriers to doing that, you know, which is kind of cool. And I know teach as well. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  44:11   Yeah, that's that's really interesting that you mentioned that, you know, I it's that it's just it's very interesting how that that point that you make, you know, I when I first started, you know, photography, right? I gave myself like six months to be successful. Right? Yulia Denisyuk  44:37   Meet you. Why like why What the hell meet you Oh, my God. Like, you know what, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  44:42   this guy's like, take photo posted Instagram, they become famous. So six months, I'll crush it. And, of course, didn't happen, you know, first year you know, it's like it's getting better but it's not really what I want it and you know, But I don't think up to now I've been in it for four years. I don't think I'm where I want it to be yet, right. But it's true. You look at people studying engineering, accounting, architecture, they take three years, four years of intensive schooling. And we decide that we're not going to take school, we just cannot figure it out. Because apparently, this is something that really easy to figure out. Right? And it doesn't happen, right? So I really wish that when I started in 2018, I knew all of these courses, all of these people who made the courses because it would have taken me so much less time to get where I need to be to get to where I am right now. And yeah, that, you know, these courses could be $500 $1,000. But how much opportunity that you could have? Get, you know, yeah, I having that shortcut. You know, like, I, if there is one thing that I wish I realized better, when in my life was just that, you know, like, don't be a cheapskate, and just pay for these courses. And, you know, like, I mean, you could start dipping your toes with all this, what they call it from Udemy, and stuff like that. But when you find someone who's been through it, like you write someone who have the track record, and manage to figure it out, I mean, it doesn't matter how long you try to figure it out, you know, especially to, you know, break into Nigeria and stuff like that. Yes, there is, you know, it might take you a long, long time. But also, you might never figure it out, you know, because there's, maybe it's a mindset day, maybe it's whatever it is, right? So, man, like, if you could just look at what people have done, model it. And if that doesn't work, find someone else who's done it as well, and try to model it because sometimes different different ways with the resonate with different people, right? So if you could just do that. And instead of making your own mistake, you could learn from their mistake. Good save you years, should we leave university anymore? Yeah, I'm very passionate about this live this this topic as well. But I'll digress. But thanks for sharing that. I think that is a really powerful things to see. Right? You know, I myself, still take advices from people who are better than me, I still take courses on different things. So and I think that's absolutely important. Because if you don't grow, then you're going backwards. You know, people think that once you're up there, you're just like, you know, it's a paradise. It's not you have to keep moving forward. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yulia. Sorry, got me fired up there a little bit. Yulia Denisyuk  48:20   I love it. I love to see. That's awesome. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  48:24   Oh, yeah, I guess, you know, one of the thing that I'm sure the audience would love to hear it, and I'm sure that you cannot say in you know, 510 minutes or whatnot. Because, you know, you cannot just package everything that you learned four years into, you know, 10 minutes. It's, it's crazy, right? You do one one hour webinar, and they expect that you can just do everything, right, it's not going to work that way. But I'm pretty sure there's going to be a topic that a lot of the audience would love to hear. If you could put, you know, even just a framework on how to how to get published or have how to get featured in NatGeo. That would Yulia Denisyuk  49:10   be of course, that's the question you asked me oh my god, no. Well, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  49:15   I wasn't I actually didn't have that in mind until you mentioned it. I was like, you know, now that you mentioned it, I'm gonna have to ask the question because otherwise they just be pointless. Yulia Denisyuk  49:30   Okay, so first of all, the the environment right now is very different from the environment. I was starting out in 2016. Because back then, if you didn't know somebody on the inside, the chances of you getting in there are very low. And here's why. Because most of these brands, most of these magazines, they didn't give any guidance. So just a random person on how to approach them, how to pitch them, how to work with them. And so me, you know, I was starting in the industry with zero, like, I had no knowledge, no connections, no nothing. It took me so long to figure it out. Because I didn't know anybody who could tell me like, even something as simple as who the hell do you contact at National Geographic, you know, right now is time to be starting in this industry. Because all that is changing so much, most of the bigger publications in the US and globally, they are putting their guidelines online. So you can very simply Google how to pitch National Geographic, how to pitch a fire magazine, how to pitch travel and leader. And you will find their very recent guidelines that they regularly update, where they're gonna lay it all out for you, I'm not even going to waste my time or waste my breath telling you how to do it, because literally, they show you which sections of the magazine they have, which stories are they're looking for, what kind of formats? What about photography? What about writing? How do you pitch them, what is a good pitch look like, they're even going to show you that they're going to tell you exact person on each section, like that person with their email address. Before I could never find email addresses. It was like a crazy game of LinkedIn, looking on LinkedIn, looking on Instagram, like trying to find something. Now, it's amazing, because a lot of these have their guidelines. And, you know, when you follow the guidelines, like 95%, of, of you being successful. I mean, of course, there are intricacies there. And by the way I teach about that, you know, because you still need to figure out how to do a pitch that fits in the publication, because not all the stories you will have fit into every publication and that's normal, you know, because different publications have different voice, different strategies, different audiences, and that's perfectly fine. But yeah, I mean, right now, you know, six years ago, my answer to you will be very different. But right now, I think I would say that the first step, know who you want to work with, again, if it's National Geographic, it go on Google, and literally google how to pitch National Geographic, and you will see their guidelines. And that's your starting point. Of course, build a portfolio to start building your start understanding your niche. What kind of work do you want to do? What do you want to be known for? Are you a wildlife photographer? Right? Are you? Are you a hotel's writer? Are you a sustainability writer? Are you a conservation photographer, like what is your niche, because they're going to want to know that and you're going to want to build your portfolio based on that, you know, but for the most part, your your step number one is to Google that guideline, read it and follow it, and you will be successful. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  53:05   You know, it's really interesting, because for the longest time, I want to get my photography, like, you know, published, right. And I was like, it's like trying to search trying to find out different things. And, you know, I come across, like, a couple of different people in my journey that really make that difference. And the biggest aha moments, was that you just have to kind of get in touch with them find who who to get in touch, and get in touch with them with some sort of pitch, of course, you know, that's going to be a whole different conversation of what kind of pitch Are you how you pitch and stuff like that, but it's as simple as that. And that, that really blew my mind. I was just like, Whoa, yeah, like, why don't I do that? Why, why don't I just email them and ask them, right? It's as simple as that. And you know, this is where I think of course, learning it from people who not only know the how, but doing you know, right in it right? I mean, you still practicing this and as you say, you you can if I were to ask you this 10 years ago, the answer would be different because the industry are changing and if you're not in the industry, then you know the theories they want no because things are changing, right? But if you can learn from someone experience like what you say this small difference can make a big difference in your life and in your progress. So yeah, I guess you know, I wanted to pitch you know, you I was in your webinar as well and you run webinars, so I was enjoying that. But I haven't yet got into the Add to Your master class perhaps one day, because I've got so many things in my on my hand right now. But yeah, if that's, you know, we can have this if that's something that you always wanted to learn, right, how to be a travel writer how to pitch and all these different intricacies because I know usually, usually I'll make it sound really easy to just kind of go find that guidance and send it out. But this can be a small little difference that make a big difference. And I think that's where you get a lot of benefit from your master class. Well, Yulia, Yulia Denisyuk  55:37   sorry. And just Can I add something to what you just said? Because when you said about, like, reaching out, you know, find the right people and reach out to them. It applies to anything in life, really. And most of the time, we have so many like, we create these barriers in our mind that say, oh, no, I am not good enough, or I shouldn't reach out, I have nothing to say. I'll give you a really short example, really quick one. I this year, one of my goals is to develop a partnership with brands where I become an ambassador of a brand or a brand sponsors me. Literally last week, I reached out to one brands, literally, like randomly because I was researching different brands in the photography world, you know, and I was looking at their ambassador program, and I'm like, Why did I never reach out to this brand? So I reached out to them last week. I had a zoom conversation with them yesterday. And so they they sent me an email, welcome to our ambassadorship program. And it was as easy as that me reaching out to them and sending them an email. And I'm like, What the hell like? Like, why was I waiting this long? I could have done this two years ago. But you know, sometimes, but now it's like this, like you said, it's this huge aha moment. I'm like, Oh, my God, who else can I reach out to? What else am I sitting on, that I couldn't be doing? And I'm not doing because I have all these thoughts, or I'm afraid or they're not gonna want to work with me or whatever. Like, most of the time reaching out is so powerful. And so I highly recommend it to everyone. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  57:09   Oh, my God, it's the same. It's the same thing as well. Like, for me, like just reaching out, I used to have such a big fear of reaching out for some reason. And I, you know, one of the biggest mental block that I have was that people will reach out to me, um, that, you know, I'm too overconfident, I suppose, right? Just like, if we put out work out there, people will reach out. But the matter of fact, is that there's so many people out there, right. You need to put yourself in there. So by Live Nation, congratulations. On emissary ship, that's cool. Yeah. So you Yulia Denisyuk  57:47   know, a lot of a lot of people have that I, myself included, and a lot of people in my membership had the same, like, I'm just gonna put my work out there, and people are gonna notice me. But the thing is, the market is really crowded. Sure, maybe there's one in 1000 chance that you will get noticed by Why leave it up to chance, be more proactive about it, right? Because then you're going to increase your chances of being noticed if you reach out to people. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  58:15   absolutely, you know, you gotta make your chances. That's the key word. I think, you know, that's something that also I wish I had realized a lot sooner in my journey. So thanks for sharing that. So we can run into the one hour mark, there is this one question that I really want to ask you. Before we wrap this up, is that you know, when when you started this, and you've been to a lot of different countries with different cultures, right? Look at different publication work with different brands. How, how I want to know whether or not you know, it is much difficult for you to be to do this as a female artists, because I know that, you know, I don't have the experience myself, because I'm a male. But I think one thing that I'd like to learn is like, how is that different? You know, whether or not you ever come across any difficulties? Because you are a female, or whether or not it's never a problem in your journey. Yulia Denisyuk  59:29   I love that question. Thank you. Thank you for asking that Stanley. And I think that shows great empathy on your side. So I appreciate it. Yes, yes, I've experienced some some things, but the thing is, is that most of them have been in my head, actually. And I've never experienced anything from any of the partners I worked with or any of that, but just a short story that I was on assignment in early Wanda a couple of years ago, and I was the only woman on the on the, on the trip, there was other photographers and right all guys, and I was the only girl. And there was one guy there who was just so loud in every conversation, he was promoting the heck out of himself. Because we were there with a PR agency that represented Rwanda. And they have many clients, they work with other tourism boards as well. So it's, it's good when you have a good relationship with the PR company, because then they will send you more places. So this guy was doing the heck out of that he was promoting himself, he was always inserting himself in every conversation, talking about his work, like he was all over it, you know. And me by that time, I was already very established, I work with National Geographic, you know, I had nothing to prove. But I found that I don't do any of that. Actually. I know, I don't talk about my work, I am very quiet, I don't engage as much. You know, I'm also an introvert. So maybe that's why but I, I remember thinking while you lay a look at this guy, and then I looked him up, by the way, looked at his work. And honestly, it was not that special. But here he is really like boasting and promoting the heck out of himself. And that got me thinking like Yulia look like why are you not talking about your work and yourself? You know. So that's just one example of how sometimes I think we can hold ourselves back. And I know many women who do that, we are also socialized, not to talk about ourselves, you know, really give give, give, be caregivers be shy, be quiet, you know. So it's a real challenge for many women that I know, in this industry included, you know, so yeah, I appreciate you asking that question. Because it's a very real thing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:02:01   Wow, that's, that's really interesting, you know, because I can resonate with that. And this is why I really want to talk to you, because there's so many in our patterns story are just like very, you know, similar, because even though I'm not a woman of a sling, I kind of grew up in that culture as well. And, you know, like, where, like, you shouldn't, you should, like, if you just share your wins, it can be looked as if you're being arrogant, which is, that's not the definition of arrogance, right. And that's why there was a lot of a lot of time in my head where, you know, I just don't want to talk about my work, or I just don't want to, you know, put myself out there and share the wins. And I actually sometimes have to still force myself to share, like, if I have been published or something or whatever it is, because because of that mentality. So that is really interesting. And it's really good that you have shared, so that you know, if there is any female artists that are listening to this and felt like, they haven't been doing that as much that it's okay to do that. Because, you know, when, when we I think one of the biggest one of the biggest mindset for me was when I heard this, if you're if you believe in your product, and if you believe that your product can make other people better, whatever, in whatever sense, then if you don't sell yourself, then you're not, you are doing that person a disservice. Right? You're not giving that person every chance, like somebody who are worse, which, you know, maybe in your example, there are maybe good at boasting themselves, but they weren't not good enough. And then suddenly somebody buy it, and it's not giving them result, then you know, it's on you. So, wow, that's really powerful thing to share. Yulia so thanks for sharing that. My pleasure. All right. So yeah, do you actually, like teach any courses? We like, you know, for female and like to empower female as well? Because, you know, like, through your journey, is that Yulia Denisyuk  1:04:21   so? It's funny. You're the second person who asked me that very recently. I you have a workshop on impostor syndrome, and maybe I need to bring that back because that's a that's a big one big topic. I have a membership really, that's the biggest thing that I focused on. So I did two things in my platform. I have a membership, which you know, anybody can sign up for that anytime. And it's a membership for people on this path who wants to break into the industry who wants to start working? I support them in many ways. And I also have this masterclass program. The enrollment is finished right now, but the next one is in November this fall. And, you know, that's the opportunity to really learn about the industry from the ground up. But yeah, I think I might need to bring back that workshop because people people are asking me right now like, and not not so much about the industry but exactly like that mindset, imposter syndrome confidence, you know, because that's really, really important. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:05:26   Yeah, fantastic. I think, you know, that's, that's something that can be very helpful and powerful. And, you know, this is one of the reasons why I do this podcast is that, you know, for those of you who think you haven't made it yet, that's okay. Because, for us, we, you know, like, I've been in this for four years, and I'm not where I want to be right. I still have a long way to go. But I think you got to enjoy the journey. So, yeah. Well, Yulia, it's been a really, really good time talking to you one thing that I always ask my audience, you know, sorry, my, my guests when they come into the podcast, is that if there is one advice, I know, you've given so many advice, but if there is one most important advice that if our listener fell asleep, that you just want them to get this one thing, what would that I love that. Yulia Denisyuk  1:06:26   Don't give up. Don't give up and keep going. And if you think it's gonna take a year, it's probably going to take three years, if you've got, if you think is going to take six months, it's probably going to take three years. So just plan on that plan accordingly. Be ready to be in it for the long haul. But also know that there is light at the end of this tunnel. Today, I got off a call with an agency and they want to send me to Barcelona to Mexico to send a reefer to Malaga to this and that, and I had to like, pinch myself, I'm like, Wait, this is my life. This is my work. This is what I get to do. Now, you know, and again, it took years to get here and to be here. But I didn't give up. And I hope if you're listening right now, if there's one thing you will remember is that don't give up, keep building, you will reach a critical point at which people will start reaching out to you, people will start to want to work with you. It might take longer than you hope. But it you will get there. If you apply yourself. If you're consistent and passionate, you will get there. If you ask for help, you will get there. And then it's going to be amazing. And then it's like a snowball effect, because now more and more people are reaching out to me and I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing. You know, it didn't happen on year one, it didn't happen year two or three, even by year six. People are reaching out to me, and it's amazing. And I'm still here, I'm still in the industry, I'm still building. So that's the most important thing I can tell you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:08:09   Wow, that's just so inspiring. And, you know, it's it's the simplest thing make the biggest difference. And I think that is such an important advice that I haven't heard from anyone from this podcast. So I'm so glad that you share that to never give up. Wow, I think I need to, you know, I need to those reminders as well as many times Yulia Denisyuk  1:08:32   me too, because there are days I want to give up too. I'm like, you know, some stressful days. But you know, we all need that advice from that reminder from time to time for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:08:41   Yeah, I think you know, a lot of us forget that we're doing this not for anyone else but for us. So if it's really makes you happy, then just enjoy it and ride the wave and keep going right? What's the alternative? Going back to your nine to five with you know, giving your stress and backache right it's it's no matter All right, well, Julie, I It's been such an incredible hour, you know, chatting with you learning about your journey, learning about your mindset. I think that's really cool as well. I think one of the things that I really love is just like how you think and how you conceptualize the world. I know I wish we have more time to talk about your travel but perhaps we'll bring you

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, today we have Rachel Wood with us sharing her journey and passion.  Ever since she quit her office job and bought a camera in 2019, she has been on a world tour of exploration and discovery as a professional photographer. Some of her favourite images were captured in uncommon places: a Paleontology dig in Argentina, a solo expedition in Mongolia, and on a journey to Antarctica.   She's passionate about using her photos to advocate and raise funds for conservation and charity organizations. She also prides herself on being a patron to women in photography and BIPOC artists. Although you will typically find her taking photos in odd positions, I will oftentimes be spotted at the nearest food truck, trying to taste everything on the menu. If you want to learn more about Rachel's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Twitter: https://twitter.com/0xWanderbitch Artverse website www.artverseproject.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/thetravelingelf Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.    ----------------------- Transcription:   Rachel Wood  0:00   If I was driving in my van across the USA, I hadn't had that many sales. And I was stuck at a gas station in the middle of like Kansas or something. And I could see the gas. But I cannot even afford to fill up my tank, because I was broke. And I knew I wanted to get to my friend's place, which was in like the next state over, but I just couldn't make it there. Because I couldn't afford it. And so that's kind of like what I was like really debating on is NF T's worth it Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:45   Hey, wiki hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and show how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And to hey, we have somebody who have given a lot to the community who have worked very hard, you know, around a project in NFV, as well as outside of NFV. And I'm just so excited to have her in, in this podcast and share not only about her successes, but also her journey and what makes her you know, the artists that she is today. Hey, Rachel, how you doing? Rachel Wood  1:23   I'm good. I'm good. Thank you so much for that great introduction. I am very happy to be here and share a little bit more about myself. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:31   Yeah, I'm excited. You know, I've been following you for quite some time now on Twitter. And I've been seeing not only your great photography, as well as your digital art, but what you've done for the community is just incredible. So I I'm just excited to have you here. But before we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself, right? What, what make you fall in love with either photography or digital art yourself? Rachel Wood  2:04   Yeah, so that's a good question. And I think many people expect my photography journey to be a lot longer than it is. But I didn't do photography. I didn't take pictures until 2019. So that's only about three years of actually taking photographs. Of course, before I would take photographs on like, your phones, or like, you know, point and shoot cameras on your travels, but I was never really for photography. Really, my love of photography sprouted from my love of travel. I am I've travelled quite a bit on my own since I was 12 years old. And I would always come back and just be like, Hey, everyone, I had this great experience. You want to see pictures of cars, it'd be like those five megapixel like camera phone like blurry out of focus, like not really able to see anything in those pictures. I'm like a, like, how can I help share the life experiences I was having with other people. So yeah, that kind of sprung from that. But with our I always loved art, like growing up, I was not in public school, I was in a Waldorf education system. And they do a lot of like experimental observation and hands on learning. really delving deep into the art. So I've done everything from metal smithing to stained glass, lamp making two weaving to painting with like acrylics or oils or every other medium. I grew up surrounded by art, and I never really wanted to be an artist growing up because I was like, Well, It's so fluffy and light, like I want to be someone people can respect and have like, you know, some sort of clout in in life be like, yeah, because my entire extended family is like lawyers and doctors, you know, all those heavy, hard stem people, and they're brilliant people. And I think growing up I always thought artists were not smart. Which is why when I went to college, I, you know, went hardcore into like, pre med, medical anthropology. I wanted to be a doctor. But after about two years of no art in my life, I realised that I was really ignoring a big part of myself. I have a brain where I need both the logical and the creative sides and I think they both go hand in hand. But um, picking science over art was a was a bad choice. For me. Personally, I still love learning about you know, medical practices. I still love reading those like papers and research and things like that, but I know for myself, I need to have that balance of creative infrastructure. And actually, that's where photography kind of comes in, you know, there's so much more to just snapping a picture. When you start learning photography, I mean, it's takes people's years, years just to learn how to use their camera. I know for me, I still don't know how to use my camera fully. But yeah, it's, it's fun. And it's creative. And it's enabled me to interact with the world in such a personable, but also comfortable place, because I'm not someone who just like inserts herself I like to observe life as it happens before me, I like to live in the moment. And photography really lets me to find a place that I can be comfortable in and partake, and essentially preserve those stories that happened around me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:57   Wow, I mean, knowing you're gonna be inspiring, but you know, we just started and you're already, there's so many inspiration already in the you know, and I can relate so much. You know, growing up in Asian culture, the goal was to either be an accountant, an engineer, or a doctor. It was like the trifecta. So it's, I can totally understand where you're coming from. But it's crazy to learn that, you know, you have, you have so many different art. You have tried so many different parts of art, as you were growing up, and you know, trying different things. So it sounded like photography has come a little later, but art come first. Is that is that? Is that accurate? Cool. So like, you know, what really draw you into? I mean, you cannot say that it's it's the travel, right, but you also say that you've been travelling since you were 12 years old. So why two years ago? What was that one thing that really like, you know, push you to pursue the art of photography? Rachel Wood  7:06   Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I think a lot of people grow up on like, National Geographic and like Lonely Planet, and we see those travel places. And we're like, Oh, I wish we could go there. I was like, Oh, I wish I could see that. And in my travels, I was, I was seeing a lot of those things. I've been around the world many, many times. I think I've flown over a million miles, like 10 years. But it's so hard to find your way in travel. And after college. With my travel background, I was actually a travel specialist for a really big company. Because this is recorded, I don't think I can say, but I worked with some very, very wealthy people. And that really opened my eyes to a different way of travelling because before I've always been in the Volunteer Study Abroad sector of like, I'm a kid, I swear on this. Like, shit as poor student just trying to, you know, travel. So I would take every opportunity to raise money for my trips. My parents didn't really help me, you know, fund it, like, I wasn't ever, you know, just given trips abroad. Like I had to work for it. I had to earn it. And I also had to work on the trips. But then, with my college, what post college job as a travel specialist, I was working with these budgets that were so far beyond my limited worldview, even though I had been around the world, my world view, my perspective of the world was through a smaller budget. And suddenly, this job opened my eyes to experiences I never even thought possible. And I stuck with that job for like 10 months. But I was able to pay off my college debt with it. I sold everything I like got rid of my apartment, I got rid of my beds, like everything. And then that Christmas, I asked, you know, Santa or my family for Christmas money to buy a camera. So I took my Christmas money in 2009 18 I bought my first like, big camera that I had no idea how to use. And that was a Nikon D 850 Wonderful, wonderful beast of a camera. It's an amazing camera, but it's very heavy. And I realised that when I wanted what I wanted to do was traveller, and how can I make money on the road? And I was like, I'm gonna try photography. Even though I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I have no experience, whatever. I'm going to do it. And I think a lot of people want to do the same thing they see the slight If and they're like, Oh, I wish I could do this. But I'm someone who, when I see something of like, I want to do that I have to do it, well, I will try my best. And it was great. I packed up a backpack that January, I was in Peru with a group of other remote people. And I was able to connect with a woman who was working on a food documentary, down in South America. And that was my first sort of, like, official job. And I had a lot of fun, a lot of fun, too much fun that year, just chasing every opportunity to get that experience with a camera. So, yeah, I still have a lot to learn, but I think it really shaped me to work fast, to really understand that I have milliseconds to capture something before it never happens again. And that really helps me with my, my workflow. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:07   That's incredible, you know, just hearing your courage to go through everything that you have gone through, and then to push through and try to, or I shouldn't say try, because you chase a dream that you kind of, you know, doubted it in the first but then you just take a chance on it and just go on a leap of faith and jump head in first and just go and do it, that is something that I find very inspiring. So I see that you have you do a lot of digital artists well, and you know, like a composite as well as you know, like, illustrative, which are incredible. You know, I think I saw you know, is that your, your foundation piece, the one that you have it like, you know, and Twinkie II was just, you know, when I first saw that it was just such a dreamy work. And you know, it was so beautiful. So how does photography and digital art kind of complement each other in your world. Rachel Wood  12:16   So, yeah, I got into photography, because I wanted to capture the world around me and share those experiences and those moments. But digital art, it's very hard to say I'm a digital artist, even though I technically AM. And that's how I kind of white the permission that NFT in the NFT space has given me the ability and kind of courage to say that I do some digital art before when I came into NFT since December of last year. So I've only been in the NFT space for about six months. And you know, coming in, I had like this whole big plan and ideal of what kind of photographer I'm going to be known as you know, it's reset. And within like a week, I was like, Well, shit, I don't know what I'm doing. I have the whole world in front of me. And why am I pigeonholing myself into this ideal of, of who I thought I wanted to be when I was coming from a very limited web to Instagram mindset. And that's why I mented not a photograph as my Genesis piece I invented this wandering Wildling composite work, lead from many different images. And I animated it and I wrote a poem to it. And to me that was that was a promise to myself that it was okay to be something other than who I am, or who I was. To me that that is such a personal piece of art. Because it came from a really dark time when I was questioning photography last, you know, in 2020 I, you know, when I was like kind of a shitstorm everywhere, and there's so much uncertainty and you know, people were telling me left or right of what I needed to do as a photographer to make it. I felt that NF T's and the NF T space gave me that sense of it's okay, Rachel, you don't have to listen to everyone and you don't have to follow in the footsteps of the great people because that's their story. Your story is different. And that's, that's me, you know, my poem with that my Genesis wondering Well, the thing is, it's about travelling, it's about having that restless soul. Which I know I'm incredibly privileged in lucky to have such a life and to have had the experiences and I know people would be like, If only I had half of your experiences, I would be happy but um, you know, sometimes it's like once you have a bite, you get bitten by that Trouble park and you just can't stop. You know, it's with you forever. And I've had to work through those emotions, of why do I? Why am I so restless? Why? Why am I not happy with what I've had? And I am happy. But you know, there's always going to be a big part of me. That's going to be like, Okay, what next? Where to next? Let's go. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:24   Wow, that's just, you know, that was a big inspiration you drove right there, that was just incredible, you know, sharing that whole journey, what you feel, you know, I think it's, it's really hard, especially in this social media era, we see people who are succeeding. And a lot of times, you know, people would say, Well, why don't you just model their, their, what they're doing, and then you know, you should be somewhat successful if they're successful doing what they do. So we get a lot of that, or impostor syndrome, and, you know, having to kind of follow what everyone who had success in this space and try to model what they're doing, but it's just such an inspiration, how you decided to, you know, do to put a stop on there and say that, okay, well, that is one way to go about it, but you decided to go to find your own path, right? Whether or not it's, it's the right way, we never going to know until you try it. And you know, I think that is the biggest courageous to just give it a go. So you mentioned that there was so many, so many advices, so many voices coming left and right of you know, what you should do about your, you know, what you should do what you should do in the future to go about, you know, your photography, what are I'd like to know, what are some of the advices on that? And what you know, because I know that you say that, in the end, you decided to just, you know, follow your own path? What are some of those advices? And whether or not you have tried to follow that through before you find your own path to get there? Rachel Wood  17:13   Yeah, wow. Okay. That's a really good question. And I am stalling while I think about the answer. I think for me, I've always viewed the now as a perpetual launching pad. I know in the past, I've been a perfectionist where I don't want to, like do anything without it being perfect. And I think a lot of us do the same thing. Like we don't feel confident in what we're doing. So we hold back, we actually hold ourselves back by saying perfection is what we're trying to obtain. But really, we all know that saying it's not perfect is just saying it's an excuse. And there's no perfect moment for when you know, you should do something. And as creative people I know of Absolutely. It's very hard for us to do something that we don't feel that excitement to do. But I think that's where my sort of more like logical structured brain comes into play. Because I know that motivation doesn't happen every day. But when I chose to do photography as my job as my career, couple years ago, I acknowledged that I would have to work even if I didn't feel motivated, I would have to do things, even if I did not want to do them. And that's something that people forget, when you choose to do an art form as a career or business or even trying to sell your work, you're gonna have to not just do the art, you're gonna have to do a lot more to everything. Basically, we have to be little birds and jump out of our, our nest and grow wings as we fall. Because there's no other better way to learn how to do something in my opinion, like, by walking and struggling, that we we get to forge something different within us. And that's what makes it stand out. So I'm in the NFT space. Yeah, you know, every when I came in, in December and January, everyone was like, Oh, we have to sell an Pricer one of one works super high. And, you know, like you said before, like we get this impostor syndrome, and we tried to replicate these amazing people in the space before us because we admire them. We respect them, and then they're in a place that we want to be in. But what we forget is that we're taking their stories, we're taking what they've done out of context, we've taken it out of the time situation The history, the even the privilege of what those people were doing at that time. And we're trying to apply it to ourselves. And of course, ultimately that fails. Because we're, we're just repeating something that did work once might work for another person, but won't work for everyone else. So, for me, I heard what people said, I was looking at what was happening. But really what I was doing that first month was I was learning about the space, what was going on, I was learning more about the technology of what made nfts different than just selling a digital image. And I think I was one of the first people to bring back addition, the additions were done last year. And when I proposed the idea of additions to people, they're like, Hey, don't do that. No, no, no, like, that's just a race to the bottom, like, now we're going back to stock images. But what I think people forgot, when they're talking about editions was one editions is a great way to be more affordable to more people. And also, when it sells out, or even if you price it right and sell out halfway. You'd get way more money for that image faster than if you had, you know, priced at super high and waited like 810, four years for it to sell. That is not me. I am someone who likes results. And I am someone who, as I said, chose to make photography, my job, and my income, I needed sales. And I know a lot of other people need sales, sales are great. We love sales, I do not support this whole, like starving artists mentality. Because as an artist, I don't want to be starving. Sometimes I am sometimes not. But that's not the goal, the goal isn't to just starve, and Mike's great myself for my art. Like, the goal is to make my art be that ticket to financial freedom, so that I can continue making art and also do other things. And not just, you know, be a slave to marketing myself or things like that. I'm totally rambling, I totally forgot. Okay, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:18   all right, you just dropping a lot of inspiration, you know, I love how you would just share a lot of that hardship. And I'm pretty sure a lot of that, you know, I was not sure if you'd notice, but I was like noting the whole way through because like, I know, at some point I was feeling that, you know, and some of the I still feel the same way. So I think a lot of people are going through that same thing. And, you know, being able to, when I started this podcast was that I came across this burnout and I was just want to know, you know, what people gone through to, to be where they are. So hearing people journey, and you know, hearing that peep other people who have succeeded in this space, also come up with the struggle, it really helps me helps them right. So I'm very grateful that you are happy to open that up to us and to share and be vulnerable around that. So, you know, very much very grateful for that. So if we had to think about, you know, what was the hardest moment in in this journey that perhaps, I'm not sure if you ever had a moment where you feel like, you know what, I don't think it's worth it. I'm just gonna quit, or whatnot. But if there is a moment like that, then what what was that moment like? Rachel Wood  23:37   Wow, that's yeah. So despite all of my highlights and wins, I definitely have had moments where I wanted to just sell everything and go to an easy nine to five, boring job. Because having been art like an artist, and travelling as much as I do, it's not stable. It's not easy. Anyone who's ever tried to find a job in today knows that finding a job is really hard. And I have to essentially find a job every single day to work for every week, you know, and so, it's different and it's hard and it does Mentally take a toll on you. One of my first bigger breaks was during COVID You know, I had been travelling a lot and suddenly COVID hit so I went and bought a house in like Oregon. I did not know anyone everything was being shut down. I had no friends. And it was just really hard for me to to readdress to life in one place. And I know that sounds super privileged but it was just the way my brain had been working for the past several years was just constantly moving in and when I was stuck and not being you Well to even experience Oregon, that was hard. I felt like I was just this rainbow sheep of my family far away from it people. And yeah, it was very disconnecting. And I think that really showed me that I am an introvert. But I'm a social introvert and I do need people and human interactions in my life. But with NF T's, I think probably one of my lowest points was actually back in. March, I was driving in my van across the USA, I hadn't had that many sales. And I was stuck at a gas station in the middle of like Kansas or something. And I could see the gas, but I cannot even afford to fill up my tank, because I was broke. And I knew I wanted to get to my friend's place, which was in like the next state over, but I just couldn't make it there. Because I couldn't afford it. And so that's kind of like what I was like really debating on is NF T's worth it? Am I putting my efforts into the wrong place? Like, can I realistically, like, give so much of myself to this NFT community to selling NF T's of my art and things like that, to make it worth my while. And I think that's what a lot of people need to do is they really need to take a hard look at their situation, and know exactly what they want, what their ability is to contribute, and then understand just how much they want it. Because in my opinion, that struggle, the struggle, like some of the hardest times of my life has led to some of the best decisions of my life. Because from that hunger of that physical hunger, as well as that mental hunger of something wanting something better. It pushes people, in my opinion, to do something new. And that's kind of like you asked me a piece of advice. And for me, it's that if you want something more with your life, you have to become something more. And that is like kind of the catalyst. For most of my struggles. When I am in the gutters, when I'm like in the ninth late layer of Dante's hell, I realised I have to change. And change is painful, but it's short term. So when I change, my situation changes when like, I want something to become better, I have to become better. And that's a hard truth to hold with someone within yourself is to like be like, Okay, I'm not good enough, but not dwelling that I'm not good enough. Be like, Okay, well, I'm not where I want to be, because I'm not that person yet. So when I tell this a lot to my people, is when you're thinking about your past, when you're defining who you are right now, by your past wins. You're basically limiting yourself by who you were, instead of being like, what would Rachel do? Or like, what would this because I've accomplished this in the past while does that lead to a better future? I should be really thinking on. If I want to be this in the future. What would they tell me? And they would tell me vastly different things than if I were to my past self. And I think that's something that we can all work on. I still work on it every day to be like, Okay, this is where I want to be. What would they tell me? What would they tell me to do to get to where they are? Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:53   Wow, that's a good piece of advice right there, Rachel? You know, I think there's a saying that, that says, you know, if you think it was from by Albert Einstein or something like that, but you know, if you the definition of insanity is when you try to do the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So if you don't look back on the past, and you look to it as an LED judge your future, as you said, you know, it's essentially doing exactly just that, you know, if it didn't work on the past, well, then it's time to do something different, find a different path, you know, talk to different people. No, you know, thinking about those in the past and let it define your future. So, yeah, like I totally agree with that. You know, that quote, really something that really stuck in my head and I was struggling with that as well actually quite a bit up until last year until I took like a few different like seminars and coaching and so forth. So now, talking about NFT I know we can talk about here You can tell your story here and there. But when you first find out about NFT, what really draw you into an FDA? And what makes you want to be part of this movement? Rachel Wood  30:15   Yeah, so obviously, I think like many people, I was intrigued by this ability to make money off my art. A lot of my friends were in the space in 2021. And, you know, they were having a lot of success, it seemed it was like, pretty easy. And I was just like, Oh, cool. Another way to make some money. Great. So I got in, but I realised it wasn't as easy. And that's when I started. Like I said, Before, I was starting to learn more about what is an NFT? What is the blockchain? Why Aetherium? What exactly does this kind of technology mean? And for me, I thought so excited. I'm not a technology person. I'm like someone you have to explain the something for Dummies books too, because I'm technology is not my friend. But then I got so excited learning about this and learning kind of the steps that have led to what is now NF Ts and NFT art. I was, I realised that this was something that was still happening, still growing. And if I could come in, and help shape the future of what this looks like, I want in like that, to me, it's a matter of not just learning but shaping the future, that better serves us artists that better serves us as individuals, I was like, I would regret not being a part of this movement. And that's kind of like my bigger philosophy in the space. It's not to be, you know, the highest selling photographer, I know, I'm not going to be even if I like killed myself, I pretty sure I won't be. And that's not what I want to be in the space. Like, I want it to be someone who comes in and whose voice is heard. One of the biggest things that a lot of motivating idols of my life have said was, they regret not speaking up louder. They regret not speaking up sooner. And for me, this is exactly my mentality coming into the space. Right now. I'm about building and connecting and listening and learning of what's going on of what's you know, happening and trying to find solutions, I am a results driven person. Like I need those wins, I want those wins, I want those connections in those. Those building blocks that lead to somewhere it can't just like end at a specific transaction. And for me, that is basically my driving force with art. First is after having the wins that I've had in the space, which I'm incredibly thankful for. I realised that I'm not just an artist in this space. I'm a builder, I want to be known as a builder. In this space, I want to connect people, I want to help other people. And I think when you ask any, any creative, like any photographer, really, we love to share the knowledge that we've taken years to acquire and help others. I mean, how many photographers do you know have workshops, how many of them, you know, are always open to you know, sharing what they know and helping someone learn how to take photographs, like we're educators, I mean, we intake information, and we, you know, process it, and then we have to output it somewhere. Sometimes it's in an in an image, sometimes it's in a workshop, sometimes it's in a tutorial, sometimes, you know, it's an email list and PDF forms like you know, recreate. And that sort of drive I think is why so many of us artists are here is we are in taking all of this information of what is happening in the NFT blockchain space. And then we are kind of picking it in and kind of like with the rest of my life, I have to put something out I do not settle. I do not sit. I do not, you know, hold myself back away in the way I did in the past. So, yeah, for me, it's very exciting. I am so excited about everything that's happening and what will happen. And I'm trying to incorporate all of those little bits of information and building something which is my art first community into something that will help other people right now, of course, you have to pay me to get into it. Because I don't have big financial back There's so but this is more grassroots effort of, you know, coming together as artists coming together as collectors and growing and shaping a future that will benefit us artist, you know, helping to establish this art in the metaverse because there is a lot to fts. It's not just photography, and I think a lot of us forget that. And that will become even more. So if I can start. You know, establishing art in a way that is valued in a way that helps people in a way that people can easily get into easily can support and easily connect with each other. That, to me is what this technology is facilitating, is that ability to connect and communicate and have compounding benefits for both sides. Now, I'm rambling. So Yes. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:57   Fantastic. Yeah, I love hearing about, you know, your journey and how, you know, the mindset behind the whole NFT as well as the it's a tool, right? I think a lot of people forget that a lot of people think that NF t is just a way to make money that you know, but it's bigger than that, like you say it's just a tool and the tool. The thing that's so exciting that I think many people forget about NFT is that it is is a technology that is still very new in this space that have so many potential on how we apply in, in real life as, as an artist, right? So, yeah, I'm so excited about what the future holds for sure. So you talked about our verse and you know, building a community, and you cannot touch base into different things of you know, what, what you've done, what, what is going in the future? But why not introduce it in a more formal way? What is art verse and what it is that you're, you know, what was the vision behind it and what you're trying to build out of it? Rachel Wood  37:09   Absolutely. So briefly, how it started was when I made my first one on one sale, when remember, when I was talking about how was at a gas station, couldn't afford gas even get to where I needed to go. I decided to drop my first image that I ever sold as a canvas prints the year before. I dropped it on foundation, and I dropped that reserve price to point one. Yeah, it was point one and everyone was like, Don't do it, Rachel, don't do it, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. Like, you got to stay strong, you got to just you know, maintain that trust and whatever in yourself. And I was like, You know what, I cannot fucking afford, I'm sorry, I cannot afford to wait 10 months for this thing to sell. I need eith now so that I can get to where I need to go. And so, you know, I didn't just throw any image out there, I threw out one of my most beautiful images, in my opinion out there. And it meant a lot to me. And, you know, it was it was a little hard pill to swallow to think that I could sell this image only once for 200 bucks at the time. But you know, it, it ended up being amazing. And I had big wars, the community was pumping me out because it was my first sale. And it fills me with such a sense of gratitude that I had to take what ever I could do and repay back the community in some way. What can I do? Myself that would help other people find that same sense of fulfilment and happiness in sales. And the collector of the piece, Miyama Matt, he basically told me in a message, he was like, Rachel, I wasn't going to spend that much on you. But by the community showing up and hyping you and really supporting this, I went higher. I went higher than I originally thought. And it wasn't because my image was just that much better. It was because of my community. And I realised just how strong that social proof aspect of web three is to sales. I was like, wow, how can I do that? And that's what led to our first. Our first really is a community of artists and collectors where people are trying to do everything on their own. In my opinion, it's a way for artists to find their voice and to elevate their voice in this space. They don't need to speak louder. They don't need to post more. They don't need to like you know, need The best. But how can we elevate them in this space where they can be respected and acknowledged and known. And that comes from a community. So what the art first does, and this is just in the past, in the first month of it being a community is we've had one on one coaching. With artists where they learn how to talk about their art, we get to like deep dive into their social medias and how they're presenting themselves and try to find ways that they can improve their own presence within this space, because I think that's very important. We are artists, but sometimes we don't always present our best foot forward. And that's, that's just normal, that's human. We also have websites and newsletters coming out. We have, you know, a discord going, but I'm terrified of discord. So actually, a lot of the artwork first community are not the biggest fan on Discord. So I've listened to them. And we are actually in the process of making the art first app. I'm playing around with the name of it, but they will be a lot more centralised, into an app with all the benefits of the art verse. One really exciting part is we're creating the ability to have more of these onboarding sessions of were like little modules or lessons that people can actually get answers to. Because you know, on Twitter, we have a lot of spaces, lots of great knowledge, but I hear a space and then I forget it by like the next hour, no matter how amazing it is, like I forget it, I need something that I can go back to that I can, you know, read that I can, you know, listen to again, and not lose all of that really good information within the stream and noise of Twitter. And that's what they are versus it's going to be this centralised point for education and connecting people and artists and collectors, and finding answers, you know, because I think a lot of people who come into the NFT space, they're like, I just talked to my friends. But I don't know what the fuck is happening. Like, like, where do I find this information? Where do I even start? Like, there's so many different people saying different things like, I think for me, that was like, what took me the longest of finding a community in the space was just trying to find information. And so that's, that's a big part of art versus having that centralised Information Resource aspect to the app and you know, to the community. But we're also do like for collectors, if you want to, if you're a collector interested in the art first, a lot of the art first artists will be able to, or they have been offering the collectors of art first discounted prices. And I know that word is a little tricky. But essentially, it's a way that artists can get their work out in front of collectors, before the rest of the public. collectors can know what's happening with these artists that they may like and follow our new artist without the noise of like being forgotten in the Twitter feeds. Because for me battling the algorithms of social media, it sucks. We all know, it's like a whole full time job, even if art is not your career, just to be on Twitter is like a full time job to constantly promote yourself to kind of still like post things that like you know, to engage with other people. It art versus really trying to find ways and systems where they can post things we can engage. But that has compounding benefits in the future where it's like they do it once. And it will be taken forward in a way that really highlights their work. It's not just going to be lost to the ether. So the internet. So that's exciting, lots more coming to it, but can't really talk too much about it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:15   Well, I think you've shared enough and I think the biggest thing you know, the biggest thing that I want the audience to hear is just how I think first of all, how you show I think this is a great case study where you show people that are NFT is not only about sales, right? You utilise the technology of NFT and you build a community around it to not only generate sales but also to benefit other people to help other artists to build a community so that you know you're you're fighting the algorithm which is which everyone hates right I feel like if there is any biggest wall between us and our dreams as an artist, it's the algorithm. So anytime, people saying that we just like, Oh, hallelujah, thanks for that. Right. So, and then, you know, secondly, you, us show people that how important the community is. And I think, you know, coming from the Instagram sort of era where it's more about showing who you are and what you're doing, you know, the web 3.0 is a bit different, it's about, you know, how you can give back to each other. So, that's really good to be able to see that and to have you kind of demonstrate that. But you know, lastly, I think there are a lot of artists out there who are a great artists, a great photographer, and their photos are amazing, but their voice hasn't been heard, they're, you know, the art hasn't been seen, and you are, you know, building something where it can help them and facilitate them to get all that happening. So, wow, you know, that's just, it's so inspiring from somebody who, you know, not sure if art was the thing, don't know what they wanted, you know what she wants to do, getting stuck in a petrol station, not knowing how to get to the next to the destination, and here you are building a community, and it's been something that's quite successful in the NFT space. So massive kudos to you. Now, one thing that I got me wonder, right. You shared some of your hardship, you know, all the struggles and the things that you have to go through to be where you are today. And you also share all of this successes as well, that goes with it. Now, I know that it's not easy to kind of push through all this hardship and get to where you want to be. But what are your motivation? What is there like that one motivation that you always think of? Or you always remember, when basically, everything come and fall apart? What is that one thing that keep you going from day to day and just keep at it to pursue this dream of yours? Rachel Wood  47:21   One is food. I love food and food costs money, and I need money to buy food. That's a fun answer. That's the fun answer. What keeps me going? I think it's a it's a complicated question. Because you know, every day that my purpose and y changes, my goals change and with my goals, changing my purpose has to pivot and change. And for me, I think it's a matter of not wanting to live the same day over and over again, I don't want to wake up in like 10 years and be like, Wow, I cannot qualify my life and more than just what I can do in a week. And for me, that's just kind of my, my blessing and curse is that I cannot settle. I do not like routine. I do not like you know doing the same thing. And that might be my creative soul speaking out. Yeah. But you know, I think for me, it's a matter of the future. I live in the moment I live so fully in the moment, like I tried to practice mindfulness, of being grateful of where I'm at, of what I do have what I have of, you know, really assessing things. But then I also have my eyes set to the future. And I have a lot of hope. Like, I have a lot of hope and belief, and not just photography and not just NF T's but like, in where I want to be in life. I don't want to always be struggling. And I know everyone doesn't want to be struggling. And I know that if I want to change my situation, I need to push hard. And that's okay. Because I love working. I think people see discomfort as a bad thing they see work as a bad thing. But even as a kid, I love doing homework. I love doing what I do, even if like the task itself is not very exciting or like worth it, in my opinion. If I know it's a stepping point to where I want to go done. It's happening. So, there's this I think it's the Marines who say, when your body is ready to give up when your mind is telling you you cannot go further. You're only about 45% of the way there you have, what is it 55% more capacity to keep going. And I think that's something that I really hold strongly for myself. That's the standard. That's a life mindset that I hold to myself where I'm like, okay, when I'm ready to throw my computer against the wall, and I'm ready to like, delete the Twitter app, or, you know, stop backpacking or whatever, I have to remind myself that I'm not even halfway to my potential, I'm not even halfway to what I actually can achieve. And that pushes me, because it's like that, that saying, You have to believe in yourself, because no one else will, I think there should also be the follow up, you have to push yourself, because no one else is going to push you harder than you are going to push yourself. And if you don't push yourself, like, Yes, there'll be other people rooting you on and supporting you. But if you're just writing on the support of others, you're not going to achieve anything more than what they believe in you. And that is dangerous, as so dangerous to live your life based on what other people think of you, and what other people expect of you. And I'm not going to go into it. But due to some childhood things, I realised that I could not listen to people, even people I trusted, even people in positions of power, I did not want to give them that I have power to define who I could be. So that's where I have a lot of faith and hope and belief in myself. And that drives me forward. Even when I have rough days. Even when I have impostor syndrome days, I remind myself that I am 55% able to keep pushing, I can keep going. Because there is much more within me, even if sometimes that answer or action is unknown. I know there's so much more inside of me that I can do. So that's yeah, long story short. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:09   Wow. You know, I'd, I totally can relate to that thing, you know, it. And sometimes the people who are closer closest to us are the one that's, that's the most dangerous to listen to right? Now, because they not because they don't want us to be succeed. But it's, it's because of that, it's because they're, they love us. And they speak from the love, right? And they don't want us to ever suffer. But if you never suffer, then you're never going to expand and grow. So it's I think it's a big mindset that our parents perhaps because I know, like, you know, my parents, she, you know, they had to, you know, like, work a lot to be able to raise us and give us a comfortable life. And you know, just like what you say, you know, they, they sometimes they don't know where the next money gonna come from, you know, to provide and stuff like that. So I think you know, out of that, they don't want their kids to ever felt that again. Right. But yeah, like, you know, if you if you have that mindset, then you're right, like, we just gonna hit that, that limitation of what of that belief system. So it's absolutely important to just stick through with your dreams and just keep going. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, Rachel, you know, it's been a great chat. It's been so many inspiration just talking to you. And this is what I love this podcast, right? I really get to know the person behind what they the 160 characters that they put out on social media, you know, so I really appreciate this. This, you know, getting to know you through this podcast, and I'm sure our listener would too. You have mentioned, you know, usually asked this question about, you know, that one piece of advice, but you have mentioned that one piece of advice. Is there anything that you want to add in terms of the one piece of advice that you would tell your younger self, if you if you could? Rachel Wood  54:08   Well, okay, so right now, I just had my birthday. I'm 28 years old, and thank you. And my goal for this year is growth. That's my that's my word of this year. Last year, it was pivot. And that was just so that I could pivot into whatever was happening. That's how I got into NF T's. I was like, Okay, this is something I'm pivoting into, I'm gonna lean into it. But now I found a place that I feel really happy and confident and and I'm like, Okay, I'm here. How can I grow? So my last two little bits of advice as my My top sort of missions for this year is, I need to do something right. I don't need to do it right now. And that gives me the permission to take my time to not FOMO into things to, you know, really give myself the grace to do it, right. Because you know, everyone works at a different pace, I take a lot longer to do something, which is why I'm always on. And people like, Oh, you do so much. I'm like, Yeah, because I'm just constantly chipping away at this massive boulder to carve something that I want to have a thing of beauty, in my opinion, and it takes time, little knock by the chisel at a time. So doing something right does not mean doing something right now. My second piece of advice I would tell my younger self. And I've learned this recently was that I think a billionaire, I forget who it was, he said that there's going to be doors, that slam in your face all the time, you're going to have failures, like there's going to be things that just don't work out for you. But you have to keep going. That's the first piece of advice. The second follow up is that you have to show up every single day, with the same amount of energy you had in the beginning. Because, you know, it doesn't mean you have to be heavy and fun and rosy all the time. But it just means you have to give everything you do with the same enthusiasm. And that's what I tried to do, I try to go things at it in a way that even if my past decisions and actions were kind of failures, I'm still going, like, I'm not going to get downtrodden yet sometimes, you know, I feel, but most of the time I keep pushing myself to show up with the same passion and drive and you know, bubbliness as I can. And that has helped me, you know, just to keep going forward. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:08   That is a great, you know, couple of great advices there. And well first of all, I didn't know it's your birthday. So happy, happy birthday to you. Because that's great. So thanks a lot for you know, for everything that you've shared with us for opening up, you know, your struggles, and you know, all of these things that that people would have realised that success is not it's not, you know, a finger snap that you have to work on. And like you say you have to be consistent every single day with the same amount of energy. You know, because it's, it's, it's easy to be excited at first, but it's hard to be consistent. And it's easy to be consistent. But it's hard to be consistent with the high energy so, man like it's a tough job. Right. But I think that's it's it's it's not it's not complicated the road to success, but it is not easy. Well, Rachel, it's been really fun conversation I love I love you know, hearing all your stories, getting to know who you are, as an artist as well as as a person. And I very much appreciate, you know, your your time to set aside, you know, after your birthday party to be here with us. For people who cannot want to learn about, you know, what is our verse or who you are and some of the art that you are working on or you're planning to work on, what is the best way to get to know you and find you? Rachel Wood  58:36   Well, you can find me on Twitter, and right now my name is a little bit crass. But it's 0x Wonder bitch, and the reason why it's wonder bitch is because whenever I told people, I'm a photographer, and I travel, they always look at my Instagram. And then they're like, Oh, you you take pictures. Oh, they're so good. I'm like, Yeah, what do you think I just said, and I think the idea is that they think I'm some sort of like influencer model. And I'm like, No, four foot nine of me is not in front of the camera. I do not flow around fluffy dresses all the time, which are beautiful shots. I don't fault them, but that's not me. And so, you know, I've met several people who are like, Oh, I'm a wonder babe. I'm like, Are you really? I know. I see you laughing. But it's like I travelled to very remote places. I push myself physically to get to some of these places where it's like backpacking for days or things like that. And it's not just camping gear, it's camera gear, so it's extra heavy. And for me, my Twitter name is kind of like a little dig. Where I'm like, I am a wonder babe. I wonder all the time I travel I I love travelling and exploring the world but I'm also a bitch because it's Uh, so that you know it just something different, you know, something that I was like, this makes me feel better. But you can find me as the travelling elf, like the travelling Elf on Instagram. That's fun. I don't, I'm not nearly as active on it anymore, but um, I still sometimes post stories of what I'm doing. And if you want to learn more about the art first, the art first website is art first project.com You can also find it on under the Twitter handle art first project as well. But uh, yeah, we're minting right now, the second expansion for a membership is live right now, which is really fun to see a bunch of new people joining. And we actually have an NFT treasure hunt coming up on July No, June 30. And July 1, Art first holders are able to join and actually win NF T's for free. Some of them are like blogging Academy to Johnny melons, mint pass. Incredible, incredible successful man who's been able to make a living from his blogging, he knows his stuff. And that's, that's an incredible ability to win something like that for free. We have like cybersecurity books we have like the first sci fi book ever mentioned to the blockchain as one of the prizes that people can find we have art from a lot of the art fairs holders. And that's just a few of the things like we have a lot of fun stuff in this NFT treasure hunt that we are doing. But let's just you know, just the fun opportunity that we bring to the art first holders. There's much, much more to it than that. But you know, we're also still growing. And it's just been amazing. Just seeing how the artworks has grown. So, yeah, people can who want to come in at the super, super low price of 0.0 Aetherium can come in. But the price does raise on July 1, just because the cost of running art first is a lot. And we want to be able to continue providing benefits and perks and goodies to our holders. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:24   That's exciting. That is That's amazing. And I love your little back story of the Wonder bitch absolutely enjoyed that. I know. You know, I usually mute my mic when I when when you talk because sometimes it can be distracted by others is loving. So my partner's, like sleeping upstairs like it's, it's been such a pleasure, Rachel, thank you very much for being here and sharing all this and for everything you've done with, you know, to the community. You know, I I joined in your second month I missed out on the first man because I was in Nepal at that time. So when I came down, I was like, oh, okay, it's everything exciting always happen, apparently always happen when I'm away. It's really annoying. But yeah, I'm glad that I can be part of it, you know, through through the second minute. So that's how we actually connect. So yeah. All right, well, Rachel, I know your your time is limited, and you're busy with everything else that you're trying to build and make impact in this world. So we're just gonna wrap this up. And like I say, one is, you know, give you a sincere gratitude to for let you share this story of yours and bring some inspiration to those who might not dare you and who been wondering if they're on the right path. Thank you very much for being here, Rachel. Yeah, appreciate that. Rachel Wood  1:03:58   Thank you so much, Stanley, for having me on. I really appreciate just having this time to, you know, share a little bit more of who I am. I know sometimes I focus so much on others and trying to raise others. I do forget myself sometimes. So it's been nice. It's been really nice. Just to talk with you. Yeah, I'm Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:17   glad you you have that, you know, you feel you feel that way. You know, I think a lot of times we're so focused about content and sales that we forgot to share our story, you know, and that's, that's actually how I get inspired to follow photography is from people's story. So, you know, I think our story has a lot, a lot of impact other than our art as well as our project. So well we can this thank you very much for tuning in. And I hope you are you know, taking a lot of notes there because there's a whole bunch of wisdom and advices that you know, Rachel has dropped it was it was such a great conversation and don't forget to subscribe and Leave us a little comment below and so that you don't miss out on the next guest and the next podcast but with that being said I'll see you guys in the next week have a wicked wicked week and I'll see you later bye  

Hey Wicked Hunters, I'm excited to be talking to an Australian artist who has made good wins in NFT world. New Light Visuals is the label for all visual work by artist David Fairs. David has been a photographer, designer, animator, cinematographer, editor, sound designer and colourist for over fifteen years. Working his way up the chain to the role of Creative Director, being on sets and in studios with some of the biggest talent and crews in Australia.  David now defines his art as an important escape from the stresses and anxiety of daily life. A process akin to meditation that has resonated with many and will now be the focus of his work going forward. Supporting mental health institutions and viewers to provide as much relief from the negative energies we all experience regularly. Taking time out to produce these images is as therapeutic witnessing them as it is appreciating them for the viewer.    If you want to learn more about David's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Website - Newlightvisual.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/newlightvisuals/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/newlightvisuals/  NFT Arts - https://www.newlightvisual.com/nft-art  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------- Transcription: David Fairs  0:00   So I really went 24/7 Like I was sleeping as little as I possibly could just so I could keep up. You know, when I when I get hold of something and with work, I go all in like I really do. And it's kind of to my detriment sometimes. So, in January, I burned out properly like I literally couldn't even listen to a conversation in real life Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:28   Hey, we can do is welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey, and we get to learn how they get to where they are today and find inspiration to the journey. And today we have somebody from down under. And he's very, he loves the ocean, he takes beautiful, beautiful photograph of the ocean. I know him from the NFT space, and you have a beautiful collection of that as well. So let's welcome David David, how's it going? David Fairs  1:03   Good. Thank you. How are you? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05   Doing? Well, I see that you have a little bit of flu there. Hopefully, it's not too bad. David Fairs  1:12   No, it's got me. I've been out for a few days. But I'm glad to be here. And I'm happy to do the podcast, we'll get through it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:20   Yeah, you're working too hard, man, you need to take it easy. So, you know, thanks for being here. And I know we have a little bit of mismatch to, you know, to have this recording. So I'm glad to finally, you know, sit with you and make this happen. I've been following your journey in the NFC journey, as well as following your, your photography and your creative world. So it's been like an inspiration just to see that right. And that's why I want to talk with you. I want to chat with you about your journey. I know that more often than not, you know, we don't get to share our life story, but it's more about the photograph or the art. So I'm excited to be able to learn more from you. Um, I guess let's start with, you know, how did you find photography and what it is that makes you fall in love with it? David Fairs  2:19   That's a good question. So it kind of fell in my lap. I have always been an artist for as long as I can remember. And I got into graphic design quite late as a career. And I worked my way up to creative director role, which was a really good, proud moment. For me, I was happy to have achieved that. And then I was working in the studio with a lot of really talented photographers and cinematographers directing shoots, and I just started to get obsessed with the gear and the settings. And you know, what we saw on set, and then the final product, and it was just, it was mind blowing to me that they could shape light and, you know, create these amazing images from what looks like a fairly rudimentary set in the studio. So I just started to go down that path, and I got sucked in big time. And little did my boss know, but I was grilling my photographers every day and finding out there settings that we're using and what equipment I should start out with. And actually, I invested in my own little setup and just started exploring the world of photography and video. And it's been amazing. Yeah, I fell in love with it, as you said. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:33   That's amazing. And, you know, it's, it's interesting, you know, how everyone can fall in love with photography or fall into photography. So it's great to hear that. And was there a moment in time where you know, you do photography, or you go out for an adventure, and you capture a photo or whatever it is in your life that makes you you know, like, was there like a time that you can put that was the turning point or that makes you like, wow, you know, I want to do this. I want to do more of this. I want to do the rest of my life. David Fairs  4:11   Yeah, I think there was a couple actually. So the first was I it was a bit crazy. And I took a client on. And I'd never shot video or audio or anything before. And the client flew me from Sydney to Las Vegas to shoot a child Expo convention which was mentally I was also all my instincts. Were telling me Don't do it, you're going to fail, you know, it's going to be terrible. You're going to embarrass yourself and my wife just said just do it. You know, and this is a chance for you to find something else that you love and who knows where it will take you and so, so I did I flew to Vegas. I stuffed up so many shots and settings and audio and made all the terrible mistakes you can make under the sun. But the client were really happy Be and they, they invited me back two years subsequent after. So I did three years on that job actually. So that moment in time gave me the belief in myself that you just have to do it and you just have to, you know, do the best you possibly can with the equipment you have. And your knowledge and skill set will come as you build. And that's what's been, that's what's happened, I've, I've been able to over the past five years, just build up that skill set to a really high professional level now where I'm confident, and I don't have that voice saying don't do it, you're gonna fail. You know, so that was one moment. The other moment for photography was when I got a drone, and as part of my sort of video offering, or my business, and I started to shoot more photography to just work on composition, and work out sort of angles and light. And, and that was yeah, that was a moment when I when I realised that I had a really good eye for composition in life in drone photography. And it was quite a unique thing back at the time. There were a few big accounts doing it. But now there's, you know, 1000s, whereas before, it was more like 10s, and hundreds. And so I thought that that was a niche that I could really kind of accelerating excel in. Sorry. So yeah, those two moments really defined my journey in photography and video. And so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:16   wow, that's really cool. You know, I think I already find inspiration in that. I think that's really cool to, to take a leap of faith like that, especially if you've never heard shot one before, like you say, or you know, like, No, not in that setting. And you flew all the way to Las Vegas. David Fairs  6:34   It was terrifying. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:37   That is crazy. David Fairs  6:38   So my friend that friend lent me a Canon seven D and I literally spent two days before flying out learning how to function and the menu settings. And he gave me a quick rundown on some things, but that was it was really baptism of fire. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:54   You know, that's, that's, that's really awesome. Because I mean, I don't know, if you do ever have this feeling, you know, when you want to post something on the website or on Instagram, you always think like, you know, it's, it's not perfect, yeah, like, I need to do this. And then you know, you edit this part of Angola. I still don't like it, it's something about it. And you keep going back and forth, back and forth, and back and forth. You know, and you ended up not posting it anyway. Right? You ever have that moment? David Fairs  7:26   Yeah, definitely. I know that feeling? Well, I have pieces that I've been sitting on for four years that I'm still not happy with. And then some days, you know, you've got your own presets there that you've crafted over the years, and you just click a button and boom, the image is perfect. You know, so it's, it's funny how it works. But yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:46   Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, this, what you did in this, it basically in, in that first key was like, literally just crush all that, you know, doubts and just go you know, what, again, I fly all the way halfway around the world. You know, for those of you for the listeners who don't know where David is, he's in, you're in the East Coast, you're in Sydney or Melbourne? Yeah, just just a little bit south of Sydney will let go of Sydney. Exactly. So you know, you flew all the way around the world and just pick up the skin so that is amazing, you know, and that just goes to show that sometimes a lot of this thing a lot of doubts are only in our head, you know, it turns out that your client really loves it even though you know you say that you just screw up a lot of settings a lot of audio and stuff like that. So that's really awesome. So I do see a lot of your your photography are are mainly from drones, you know, there's a lot of beautiful photos of the coast as well as you know, the wildlife especially ocean wildlife. Is that Is that something that you draw to because I know that around Sydney there's a lot of waterfalls and stuff like that but is there a reason that makes you you know shoot because that means you follow people surfing or you know the wildlife around water David Fairs  9:21   so I'm a big fan of hikes and waterfalls and all things mountain as well. However, I tend to go off the track when I go out there and don't don't take gear or anything. I just take my family and we go and enjoy that bushwalking and just be really what mods nature so I haven't had the chance I've shot some wildflowers and a few things just to play around. But I haven't really found a passion in that side of things. I kind of tend to feel freer when I'm just out there enjoying it. That's just personally for me, I do admire waterfall shots with the long exposure and think wow, I'd love to give that a go but I haven't got there yet. Maybe one day um But I think the coast stuff. So I've always gravitated towards surfing and my dad got me into surfing when I was about five. And so it's been a part of my life, as long as I can remember, in the photography side, it was a real tug of war because I like go to shoot sunrise, and there'll be waves and I'll be like, Oh, just go surfing. So I go surfing more than I go shooting still to this day. But I really do love the fact that I can be there, go for a surf, get some waves, and then, you know, come back out launch the drone and get some shots as well. Sounds fine. But it's quite an enjoyable way to kick off the day for me for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:41   Ah, that's an example that explains it. That's why you're, you know, you go out there take a lot of people serving so that's, that's really cool. You know, I'm, I try by just not that I try. I tried to get back to surfing the other day and I got rocked by the waves real hard. Like that's, you know, we get robbed in in crypto space, but I got robbed. And you know, coming back seeing the craters base crashing and it's just like, I felt like I almost drawn like, Okay, I still alive. But it's man certainly is a lot of fun in capturing, I'm gonna say capturing people serving from a drone is a lot of fun. And are they it's, it's a lot, it's very difficult as well to capture because, you know, like, sometimes they speed up, right, they turn and they speed up, and sometimes they came back and then slow down. So like, you kind of need to know where to go, when to stop and have that? Is it because that you know, you're a surfer yourself that you're able to understand that movement so that you could capture this photograph better? David Fairs  11:58   Yeah, I think that's definitely the case. I see. I see a lot of guys who haven't been in that sort of culture. And though they'll message me and say, you know, how do you get these shots? Like, I just can't get these guys in frame, you know, and it's about predicting where they're going to be. That's a lot of it. Because you can line up a shot. And then next thing you know, they've dropped in and they're out of frame, they're gone. So yeah, even for me as a surfer, it's really difficult. Like, I think that's what I really love about it is the challenge. You might shoot 1000 shots and get three that you're happy with. If that, you know you might get zero. So, I mean, that's with everything, right? Every genre, every subject, we all put a lot of time and effort into perfecting those shots. So that's definitely why I love it. It's a real adrenaline rush, as well been flying a drone in the sky for one while trying to think about your settings. Think about composition, you know, light direction. All those things at once. It's like a video game almost. It's yeah, it's really enjoyable. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:01   Yeah, no, I think you're right. You know, a lot of people kind of see, you know, all of our beautiful images and they think you know, oh yeah, all you got to do is just get a good camera and take a few hours of lesson and take a couple of shots but what they don't realise is the amount of shots that you take, you know, I mean, I think I have like about 200,000 shots or something on my life now and being good 10% of them you know that is that I'm really truly proud of but if that probably last year probably. Yeah, exactly. So it's such an important important thing to kind of talk about because a lot of people don't understand that journey and when they give that a try you know I I have taught a few students where they just given up and you're like you know what, I'm not good enough for this because my photo is just doesn't look like you're so like this other people in Instagram. It's like well, do you know how long we take us to get there? Right? So yeah, it's such an important thing to talk about. But I see that most of your shot from drone is that is there do you actually take photo from a camera as well? Or is that where you find your passion and that's where you get, you know, energised and excited about what photography drone David Fairs  14:30   but think I do shoot stills with DSLR I've got a mirrorless sorry, the Panasonic GH five I got that predominantly for video because it's a it was a very affordable based on the camera like for what it was, you know for what you pay for it. I was getting 4k 60 180 frames per second attend it. This was back in 2017 So it was a beast beast of a camera and could shoot stills that it's not the best stills camera and you know and there's a bit of noise in there with Low light so it's not perfect, but I do use it. But I'm most proud of those images through the drone in the they just, they sum up they summarise my art more than anything else you I still shoot with the camera there stills camera in the water, I've got a water housing. So I'll jump in the surf and swim out and get some shots of surfers and I'm still not at a level with that and I'm proud of yet that's still a very much a work in progress and a learning curve for me, which is fine, I enjoy that I'm still learning, you know, I think having a art form to practice and get better at is a gift you know, so I really enjoy that. But in terms of selling art, and putting it out there into the community, those images that you've seen, they're there. They're my best work they're what I love to put forward and show people what I can do that's incredible. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:59   You know, it's I you know, your photo is just breathtaking it it really reminds me of the beautiful cars of Australia. I believe we have the best cars in the world. Probably I'm a bit biassed is over Australia myself. But But um, so when you think photo these surfers and stuff, how low do you go? Are you Are you not afraid of can I you know, because you got an offshore wind with the waves and all that stuff is that of concern when you fly the drone close, or do you try to kind of you know, keep the distance so that you are further away from from the from the water. David Fairs  16:44   So I like to get really low like one to two metres off the surface, it just, it just provides such a great image, I've tried other angles and things like that. And they just don't work out quite as well, it kind of you lose that impact of the subject. And one of my favourite compositions is to shoot directly at this with a surfer silhouetted by the sunlight, but just be close enough that you can still get detail in the surfer. I will keep my distance with people I don't know. But if I've got people that are local break, where I serve, everyone knows me, you know that I'm a drone photographer in that space, I quite enjoy getting shots of themselves anyway, I will get quite close. And so they're fine with that. I try not to get above people too much. Because if it was to fail and fall out of the sky, then you're probably going to hurt someone quite badly. So more directly in front and get sort of within I don't know, a good a good distance that you can still see detail in the person in the subject so that they're not too noisy. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:52   That's a good advice, man. You know, I think there's a lot of people that doesn't consider that when they fly a drone is that when it fails, it could definitely hurt people. David Fairs  18:01   Yeah. It's actually illegal to fly above people. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:06   yeah. So it's good that you mentioned that. Yeah. So I love to talk about, you know, some of the work that you continuously put out on, you know, on your SNMP as well as in your Twitter of, you know, whales and you know, some of the wildlife in the water. How do you go about finding this? Creatures, beautiful creatures, as well as you know? Like, what does it take to be able to capture or fine and David Fairs  18:41   captured? Yes, I wish I knew is the answer. It's just potluck. It's just like, I mean, there's been a couple of times where I've been in some group chats. And people will say, you know, oh, there's a pod coming up the coast right now, and they're being seen at this place. So you can kind of predict, but I genuinely like just deciding like today, I'm probably going to go drive down to chi ama around Golden Hour, and hope for the best because they're on the move at the moment. And so it's really just about being out there and you know, experiencing what nature has to offer so I've gotten very lucky in the past but I've also lucked out a lot of times you know, you go hear these reports as Wales around blah blah blah and then you go looking for them and even if you can see them sometimes you can't even find them with the drone. So it's really just luck and just consistency just trying to find them by turning up and you know, there's always something to shoot if they're not there. So, you know, you might get another composition or the sunset or whatever. It's just about being out there and shooting for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:54   That is a great advice, man. You know, I think a lot of us photographers put x periences For on top of all the photos that we're going to capture, you know, so we would still go out there and take our chances, even if we might not get anything out of it. So I think that's that's what energises us. That's what makes us excited about ally. So that that's, it's cool that you get to do more of that. And, you know, so what? What are you? You know, like you have, you have put up a few collections out on NFT. And you know, congratulations, by the way on this. On this Ilana, David Fairs  20:39   it does make you guys more mind blowing that was absolutely mind blowing. I couldn't believe it. In a bear market. It was just like, what is happening. So you know, I probably focus on salida for a little bit to be honest, just at the moment, may as well ride that momentum. And it allows me to put some work out that, you know, I can, I can actually choose a bigger collection of work and curate bodies of work, because on open sea and foundation and things like that I've, I've had some sales and success, but I've never sold out a collection. So it's nice to see the enthusiasm on Solana and collectors are very keen for photography. So yeah, I was blown away by that. It's just been wild to see that actually happening. I think it was two days or 12 pieces, which is gone. So yeah, I'm dropping something this Friday, because it's second collection, and then keep going from there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:34   That's incredible. Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, what's NFP, I actually have a podcast, talking about what's in ft and the Solana and Etherium that David's talking about, it's basically kind of the the currency that become the platform of where you could sell the NFT. But I'd like to hear more about your NFT journey as well. You know, so what, what makes what drawn you into the NFT in the first place? And how did you find out about it? David Fairs  22:07   Yeah, so I was really lucky in that, I was in a great community on Instagram, with a lot of drone photographers, and just artists in general. And I built up a pretty good following on there, through just networking and sharing my work. A lot of opportunities came up through Instagram, so it was really good. And then it just started to just started to die off quite suddenly, when Facebook took over and they did you know, all the changes, and I think most photographers would understand what I'm talking about. So it just became quite discouraging. And I started to, to just, I don't know, not get depressed that it wasn't really a healthy space to be in for me. So I stepped away, and just focus on my family. And my job. And I was basically thinking that I had to get a pretty, you know, solid job to secure like, for security for my family that didn't really have anything to do with art because I was like, I've given it a go, I've tried and it's not it's more of a side hustle. And I need to focus on my career and just get a job, you know, maybe in finance or something where there's better money. You know, which would probably be soul crushing for someone like me. But anyway, long story short, I saw some friends get into the NFT game, and they had huge success. And my brother had told me about it the year before and I sort of thought, I don't know what your sounds dodgy. I don't know what you're talking about. You know, I didn't, I didn't want to have to go to another platform and start again, what I've done with Instagram, I thought I just don't have the energy to do that again. But I should have at that point, because it was like November 2019. And that's when you know, everything was kind of exploding. But anyway, I saw some friends had success and then I messaged them and said, you know what's, what's the goal here? What's going on? Because they sold 60 pieces overnight, you know, massive success on Aetherium. And they just ran me through everything and I thought okay, I'm gonna just go you know, I'll just start slow and I'll take my time and and then when I came in, everyone was just killing it like everyone was making sale. So I started to get really quite anxious and think I've got to get in before it's too late. So I rushed my whole thing and like I just grabbed a whole bunch of images that I was really proud of and put them out there quite a high price as a newbie and thought, you know, all these other guys are selling work for that. Why can't I so I launched this collection and I sold a few pieces straight off the bat. It was really quite amazing. And then it just snowballed from there. And I was like stuck with this all this art that no one was buying. And so it was a mixed journey, to be honest. But yeah, the entry was good. I launched people received it well. And I've just been welcomed by the community and connected with people like itself. And it's been incredible that side of it has just been absolutely amazing. And that's why I'm still here to be honest, because my art stalled. And I didn't have a lot of energy to just keep marketing stuff that wasn't going to provide me any return on investment of the time. Being a family, man, my time is so important. So I started to think, you know, what am I doing, but just the friends and everyone building each other up and connecting some positive, then something like Facebook or Instagram or any other platform, I get to talk with, you know, have these podcasts and connect on Zoom calls with other creatives. And it's just kept me really focused as an artist to believe in myself and think you know, that this is something that's really special that we've all found, and I want to stick with it. Even though times are tough right now, as you know, I think it's important to keep focus on your art and be positive. So yeah, that's pretty much journey, I guess, how I got into it, and why I'm still here. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:00   Yeah, that's, that's cool. And, you know, I know that a lot of people are sceptical about the NFT. And, you know, what's, what's what's possible. And it's, it's, it's crazy to see what's possible in the NFT space, because at the end of the day, it's, it's not a it's not, it's not a way to make money, it's just a tool, and you know, how you make how you plan to use that tool, it's really entirely up to you. So I'm really excited actually, to see, you know, where is this NFT kind of going to Def flop to, you know, in the future? Because it's yeah, I just see that so many people already coming up with so many creative ideas. So, who are you, you know, you have a family, you, you do your photography, and you know, now you jump into the NFT world, which is, you know, going like Samsung miles per second or kilometres per hours, right? Whatever metric you're using, how do you find the time to be able to do all that, you know, because that all of that takes time. And, you know, it's, it's always hard to be able to find a time to be to be active and to be present in so that you can stay relevant in the social media, let alone, you know, with everything that has happened with, you know, family and everything in real life. So how do you find the time and what it is that you do to be able to balance that? David Fairs  27:38   Yeah, it's a really good question on that, I'm still figuring it out. To be honest. I just dedicate as much time as I can to my family first. But my wife is very supportive and understands the success that could the potential success in this space with web three. And so I, we've worked out kind of a routine around it, where I say, Do I need to do this much shooting to create art, for one, that's the most important and then also need to do the networking and the marketing as well. And so it is, I am treating it like a business in that I lock in for a certain amount of time. I make sure I'm very productive. And then I log off. And I, you know, I'm not just scrolling my phone and all that sort of software's. We don't join the space. The reason I've gotten to that part is I learned the hard way. So when I joined the space, I was just on 24/7, like you said, it's like moving 1000 miles per hour, my brain was absorbing, you know, information so fast that I didn't really know how to keep up. And I burnt out to be honest. And so I joined officially joined, I rented a collection in March of 2021. And then I officially joined NFT Twitter in September, because I didn't I have no idea that that's where you did all your marketing. I thought you did it on open sea. So anyway, that's another story. But I then from September, I felt like I had to play catch up because everyone was, you know, go go go. And then people were killing it. Like I was blown away at how many sales were being made every day. It was horrible. Like, I've never experienced anything like it before. I never want to again, and I don't want anyone else to have to go through it. And that was just purely because I wasn't looking after myself. And I was just focused on NF T's. So at that point, I was forced to take a break and step away. I missed a whole lot of opportunities. I felt really horrible. And it was a really negative experience. But I've come back from that arrested, I focus on family and just what I could do to get myself back to normal and then now that I'm in a better place, I'm very weary of that reality and making sure that you know, my time is spent very well when I'm alone Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:00   That's incredible. And, you know, thanks for sharing that. You know, I think burnout is a really difficult thing to avoid, especially when you try to achieve something very hard and like, for people who are in the office, you know, if they working for to make a living when they get burnout, it's, it's gonna work but for us, because it's the things that it's our passion, it's what energise us, though is what makes us alive. So when you burn out, you cannot lose, you know, everything and you know, lose that passion. So, I'm glad that, you know, you take your time off and reprioritize. So, how can you share with us a little bit? How, what what did you do when you when you have that burnout? You know, did you lose your passion for photography? If so, how did you get that passion back? And you know, I know that I see you more active again, you know, and of course, you're, you're crushing it as well with the with the NFB collection. Solana. Right. So how did you kind of spring back from that, and basically, stand stronger, and you know, taller from that experience. David Fairs  31:26   So several things have contributed to that. And one of it is the community, whatever it is a really good friend of mine that I've made online called Jason O'Rourke, you might know him Jason iPhoto. He literally just carried me through even though it wasn't online, I was I was literally I couldn't be I had deleted Twitter, I was off line completely. Because I was like, just a mess. You know, I feel so bad for my family. Because my wife had to pick up the slack. I couldn't even help with the kids or anything. It was it was very serious. And the only reason I'm sharing this is not to be a victim, you know, feel sorry for me, it's to let people know how serious it isn't it what can happen. I think it's very important for us all to kind of share those experiences and look out for each other. So Jason, he basically was my marketing manager at that point in time. And he just, he was sharing my staff while I wasn't there and checking in with me, and, and then he was making sure everyone else was helping to. And I think that's one of the things that kept me alive in the space is that like, you know, it's not just about the art, it's about the community as well. And the friends that I've made and the connections, everyone is generally trying to help each other succeed, which is just, I've never experienced anything like that before in the art space, it's usually dog, a dog come from corporate background as well. It's like everyone's climbing over each other to get to the top right. So that, and I never lost the passion for art, I just was really upset that I wasn't able to even go out and create anything, because I just couldn't make I was just sleeping like I was so mentally exhausted, that I couldn't even fathom driving to the beach to take some shots. So I think it was like more of a disappointment than I'd gotten to that point without realising what I was doing. And I just promised myself that it was never going to happen again. And then I would get better. And eventually, you know, it didn't take long, it wasn't months or anything. It was just a few weeks of rest. And then my wife said to me, like, look, I've got the kids, why don't you go to wherever you want your favourite place and just shoot some photos, like just take the day and go and do some photography, because I know you miss it. And then, you know, how lucky am I to have a partner like that that's supportive like that just, I felt guilty leaving it with the kids. But then that day is a bit that's a very important day for me because I did get that joy back and I realised that it is a part of what I want to do and who I am. And I just loved it. I didn't even get any photos that I was happy with. But I just really relish that day to shoot from sunrise all the way through to sunset and go home. So yeah, that would be probably the biggest point for me. And I was like, okay, I can do this now. Like, let's go. And like I said, it's just more balanced and more healthy approach to the whole side of it. And I've just been lucky to have that success. Like you said recently that fired me up. Okay, I can do this. Let's go. Let's go. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:29   That's fantastic, man. Thanks for sharing. You know, I think it's really important to share that thing because I know that when when people see us on social media, you know, they might not seen this, not only because not only because there's a lot more successes we share on the social media, but also the algorithm makers so that you know, we don't see everything so even if we share it, they might not see that so it's exactly you know, the reason why I started this podcast is that you know, I want to share with you People who are trying to get their, to realise that it is simple, but it is not easy, you know, to get there and you just share a whole lot of jam there. So, I know Jason Jason is, is such a beautiful human is it is. So it's great to be able to, you know, to build relationship like that through social media, right? Of all As and he's like, all the way in Hawaii, right. So I think that's what's really cool about it. And, you know, a lot of people say a lot of negative thing about whatever it is. But I think if they focus on the good, they might find more benefit than focusing on the bad itself. I think at the end of the day, there's always something bad about whatever it is we're doing whatever it is in life, and it looks like you have that approach. So that's, that's incredible. Actually, when you share that story, I have like a goosebumps because I know exactly how that feel where you just go out, you know, you just you just take photo, you don't get any photo. That's, that's like crazy, beautiful or anything like that. But it just feels sort of happy to be able to get that feeling back. So I'm glad that you're able to do that made. You know, suddenly, like you have an an amazing wife, who is supportive of you showing up and that takes you through this whole thing. And you know, just hearing that I was like, Wow, maybe I should have her into podcasts. David Fairs  36:38   Next time. She's, she's an amazing woman. Yeah, she is. She's just been such an incredible mom. And got me through some really hard times. So you have to shout it out. For sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:50   That's fantastic. Yeah, I think that's you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the real partner in life right? Through thick and thin. Yeah, that's, that's really cool. So, you mentioned earlier that there are some pieces you know, that you have, you know, that takes a long, long time for you to put out there. You know, you keep dabbling on that you keep playing around with until you finally happy with it. Is there any piece that come in mind, I would love to hear a story behind that. And what makes it so difficult to put it out there? David Fairs  37:30   Yeah, that's a good question. There's a few that come to mind. I guess the the pieces I have on foundation definitely fit that bill at the moment. They're the ones that there's a picture of Bronte rock pool that I designed as a guitar. It took me a good year to get happy with that. And to create that pace. Just because I had to keep returning from I was originally living over in northern beaches, and having to drive to Bondi and Bronte was like an hour or two like to get there in traffic. So I think I went back like seven times to get the light in the way I wanted a wave coming over the pool. And, you know, that sort of approach, it took me a lot of work to get that and then finally to get the shot, and then create the composite with the guitar image over the top. And I think there's like hundreds of layers in Photoshop for that one. So that is the kind of thing I'm talking about in terms of like the process and, and how I just keep pushing and pushing until I'm 100% happy with it. I'm still not 100% happy with that one. Like I still see things in and I'm like, Oh, I could have got one of the shadows is slightly off. But I don't know people don't seem to notice. But I've got actually one that like I said he's about four years old. Yeah. Which was a picture that Mr. Watson shared. I don't know if you remember from the she's a drone, Archie did a free FFA challenge where people could edit her work and a bunch of other people on Instagram as well. And I entered a trial to try to enter a pitch of hers I entered another shot from another photographer, which did really well but MERS one was Bromo volcano in Indonesia. And what I wanted to do is actually cut out the volcano itself, the smoke all the layers, the foreground background middle ground, I wanted to animate a 3d camera through it. And so like I've done the work but it's it doesn't look quite right. And I don't want to share it because it's not like to in my head, I've got the picture of what it needs to look like and it's not there. So that's one that I'll keep working on and keep brushing up my skills on and you know, I could easily just outsource it to someone to like get you know, a really high tech animator and say hey, this is the brief and and get it done. But I'm determined to make it work myself and to keep improving those skills. So yeah, that's probably one I've got heaps of others if you want to hear more stories Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:00   Yeah, that's, that's awesome, man. Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's cool that you have some that, you know, you just put out there and you you don't procrastinate and you just, you know, you're okay with those imperfection. But there's some that you're really close to and you have that vision in your head. I think, you know, a lot of us I think that's, that's what makes it makes makes it hard to put out there because we have this vision. We have been thinking about it, we have been picturing it, but it's just doesn't seem right. It's like, you know, so I totally, I totally can relate to that. That's, that's fantastic. Well, David, so you know, you you share the law with a lot of how you get started with your photography, also, you know, where some of the struggles that you came across, and you made a lot of success in the NFT world, as well as you know, in in the Solana blockchain. What, what's what are you excited about in the in the coming future? Is there anything that you're excited about, you know, in real life as well as you know, maybe in the in the metaverse or in the NFT? World? David Fairs  41:14   Yeah, so in real life, I definitely am looking forward to this whale season and getting some more what captures around the whales, I've been documenting them for about five years now. So it's been awesome to kind of follow that journey with the calves coming back down the coast in September as well, they keep having babies every year, and the numbers are getting stronger, which is really, you know, it's such a positive thing to see in our world at the moment with, you know, a lot of doom and gloom in around the environment and nature. So I think for me, being a lover of animals and nature, seeing something positive every year happening is is very important for me to keep hoping in what's going on around the world. So I'm excited about that. I'm excited about being a dad and raising my kids well, and, you know, just focusing more on that challenge. And you know, because I've sort of gravitated to work more than looking at after them because I'm good at working hard. And I can sit on the computer and edit videos and have a powerhouse behind the behind the keyboard. But when it comes to kids, it scares the hell out of me. They're challenging, and I'm not, you know, I'm not a master of it. I don't think anyone is. So I kind of need to, I'm excited about being a better dad and spending time with them and getting out in the on the trampoline and the, you know, the fort and watching them just enjoy life and taking them out to experience photography as well. You know, that's something that I'm really excited about. They're not at a level now where they can handle, you know, sunrise and sunset missions. But I think once they're old enough, I've already got cameras for them. And yeah, I really want to share that with them and pass on the love of the ocean and hiking in the wilderness that my dad did to me, you know, that was one of the best gifts he ever gave me. And so if I can do that for them, I'll be very proud. In terms of the metaverse excitement is just building that base, like you said, I think on Solana, I've been able to get 12 New collectors. And that's been huge. And I've realised that, you know, it's not just about the money, it's more about connecting with people who connect with your art and building that base. And then I think eventually the business will side of it will take care of itself as long as you can get more people sharing your art and be interested in your artwork. So I'm really excited about where Solana is gonna go, actually. And yeah, like I said, we focus there a lot. The community is amazing, like the collectors, thanking me for my art and DMing me and going wow, so glad I got your piece. Thanks so much. And it's like, I hang on No, thank you. So it's really refreshing to see that I've had, you know, I've had some success on the theory and but like, it's so saturated and so competitive. I think it's a different, a different world and some other sort of more up and coming so yeah, I'm very excited about that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:10   Yeah, that's great, man. I think that's, you know, that's, that's what we look for as an artist. I mean, of course, you know, it's important to sell our art because we, you know, that's our social currency. Like to survive, we need money, but being able to sell an art to someone who truly appreciated that, you know, that's, that's, that's priceless. You know, the appreciation just, I know that feeling and I know how, how much it's more important than than the money so that's amazing, man. Kudos to you and massive congratulations on your success. I'm very happy for you to make that happen. David Fairs  44:53   That's Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:56   No worries and you definitely deserve it because, ya know, because we were like, we're gonna do like a podcast and you're like, No, I'm busy doing this. I was like, yes, that's cool. And you know, and the next thing you know, like, so that was like, it's crazy, man. That's awesome. Yeah, so we're coming to the end of our podcast. Now, David. And one thing they are always asked my guess is, if there is one advice that you could give to the audience out there, whether it's photography, advice, life advice, whatever it may be, what would that be? David Fairs  45:33   I think my biggest lesson that I've learned in his past sort of couple of years is, whatever you're doing, I do it with intention. Like don't just kind of, you know, social media, particularly in this this space that I'm in, we're talking about NF T's. You can get caught up in just doing and doing and doing and trying to get into every single thing that's happening in a very fast kind of rapid pace environment. But one thing that's really helped me is to sit back and breathe and go, What am I actually trying to achieve here right now in this moment, like, what am I doing? Is it going to be productive for me? Is it important? Do I need to do it right at this moment? or is there other things that I can focus on. So just bringing consciousness and awareness into your everyday routines and trying to get things done quickly and efficiently. So you have more time for enjoying the things you enjoy. And getting outdoors is very important for me, and everyone, I think, and not just trapped at a computer focused on, you know, the social media and all these things. I think that's quite toxic for human beings to have too much of that. So yeah, that'd be my best advice is just to be really kind to yourself, look after yourself. And then those your friends and family that you love around you make sure you spend time with them. And, you know, you could balance it out them with what you'd love to do online, and we've got outside of things as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:09   Fantastic, man. Yeah, I think that's really important to be able to find that balance. And you said it yourself, you know, how you kind of share your burnout. So yeah, thanks a lot for that advice. And, you know, I'm sure that audiences will find that inspiring. Now, for the people who want to learn about, you know, who you are, and your art and your photography, you know, where, where can they find you. David Fairs  47:41   So Twitter's probably the best place to connect at the moment, that's where I'm most active. So at New Light visuals is my handle. But I'm in the middle of crap, creating a link on my website, I have new light visual.com as a website, you can contact me there for anything and check out my work. And I'll be creating a page or layer with all of my web three, as well, instead of my link tree. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:06   Incredible, man, that's awesome. So we'll Don't worry, guys, we'll put all of that link on, you know, on the description below. So you could literally just click on it. But thanks a lot for being here. Thanks a lot for sharing your journey, you know, not only your successes, but also the struggles that you come across. I know for every success, there's always a struggle, I never seen somebody succeed without it. So I think it's really important to be able to recognise that and to be able to acknowledge that so that you don't, you know, fall to this false belief that is just an overnight success. So David, thank you very much for being here and sharing this knowledge. And, yeah, is there anything you want to share? Or before we wrap up? David Fairs  49:01   No, man, I just wanted to say thanks very much for having me on. I really appreciate the opportunity. And I know it took us a while to get here, but I'm stoked to finally meet up with you and see you in person. You know, you've been such a great supporter of me, and I love your work. And we've connected quite a lot online. So it's, it's really good. And I look forward to doing more with you there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:21   That's amazing. Yeah, I think that's what's really cool about the online world, you know, like, you get to connect with people all over the world. But that's also what's not cool about is like, when you're in an online world, you cannot be in real life. And that's hard balances, right? Like you say, like, I remember when I came back from Nepal and came back to Twitter, I was like, Oh, I get to see these people again and talk to these people and see there are so it's you're right, the balance is really difficult, and it's really important, but I'm glad to to have met you to have seen your art and came across your art and have you here so that's incredible. Well We can't do this. Thank you very much for tuning in and check out David's work. He has some incredible work I love, you know, his pieces on on the coast on Australia close, capturing this beautiful moments while people are serving as well as some of really unique moments of the wildlife that came across his drone. So that's really incredible to be able to see that and see how much it it it energises him as a creator. But for those of you who enjoy this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and give a little bit of review. And with that being said, I'll see you guys next week.  

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another episode of The Art of Photography Podcast.  I'm so excited to share this week's podcast with Abrahanny Rodriguez, an amazing photographer and kind-hearted human who always supports fellow artists around her.  Abrahanny is an international event and landscape photographer, passionate about community and capturing worldwide experiences.  Abrahanny Rodriguez is a wife and mother to two amazing teenagers who loves music and is passionate about capturing new experiences.  Her photography journey began after Libni. Her husband saw something in her that she did not see in herself.  He believed in her art and encouraged her by telling her how good she was at capturing moments.  Trusting his word and believing God had gifted her to capture something special, Libni and Abrahanny started Abrahanny Photography in 2010.   If you want to learn more about Abrahanny's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Website - abrahanny.com Instagram - www.instagram.com/abrahanny/?hl=en Twitter - twitter.com/abrahannyr Link to NFT on Opensea - opensea.io/Abrahanny   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------------- Transcription: Abrahanny Rodriguez  0:00   We're always going to struggle with something, I would encourage you to not let it stop you from creating, but just create some more, just be more creative, just keep pushing past the insecurity. It is how we handle insecurity that determine the outcome of our art of our careers. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:27   Hey, we can do this Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we get photographers on board and get them to share their passion in photography, their story and their journey so that you can learn how we get a whole purpose and happiness from our passion in photography. And today, we have someone all the way from the US and says, you know, I've come across her from the clap house era, which was probably about a couple of years ago now, during the pandemic, and she's been someone who's I find very uplifting and inspirational. And this is why I want her to be on board. And you know, of course, he's a fantastic photographers, and have a really good clientele as well. And this is habra, handy. Rouhani how's it going? Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:17   Hello, hi, Stanley, and everyone else listening. Thank you for having me. I'm so honoured. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:24   Welcome to the podcast. You know, I'm really excited to have you on board. Because you know, I'll talk to you on Barnabe clubhouse of talk to you on Twitter spaces, and I get a lot of inspiration, even just, you know, from those snippets of chat. So I'm so excited to have you for the full hour today. Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:42   I'm so excited. I feel like our Clubhouse days, kind of like open a door of opportunities to do so much more together as a community where we met other photographers and connected on a personal level, had some discussion, maybe some challenges we each wanted to, like challenge each other with and I think that was so fun. And I'm like so honoured that I've met you through that, through that app, and so many other great people that I now know and love and I enjoy chatting with and you're one of them for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:13   Ah, that's great. I appreciate that. You know, like, I think that the club has, you're right, it was really cool. It was a groundbreaking innovation where we can actually connect with people to social media, I always struggled to connect with people through social media, and that app really helped. And you know, now with the Twitter space as well, we get to do that. I know there's a lot of anxiety and you know, impostor syndrome when you start talking because everyone is so awesome in there, but never. It's a great place to to, to connect and build community. So yeah. So let us know who's Abrahamian you know what you do? And what's your passion in photography? Abrahanny Rodriguez  3:00   Well, I'm a wife. I'm a mother of two amazing boys. One, a soccer player and the other one loves racing. And so we have a lot of a lot of different sports in our life. But I am a photographer who is passionate about people. I'm passionate about building community, talking with people and just being an aid if I can. I feel like I learned so much through people through talking with people with sharing experiences. I think it's such a key component to life experiences. And so I love those new opportunities. And I thoroughly enjoy that. So my passion is people my passion is photograph people my passion is meet new people meet people in real life. I feel like clubhouse gave me the opportunity to meet them behind the screen. And then when I was travelling, I was like, Oh, hey, I'm in your town, can we meet up and I met up with some friends because I was in their town or in the city that I met through either club house or tutor spaces. And so I am really excited that one day I hope I pray that I get to meet Stanley in person. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:08   Oh, absolutely. It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. Yeah, so that's how does that you know, because you just say you love people. And I can see that so much. You know, you're, you know, just listening to this first five minutes or so you already have this really high energy, you know, with people and you know where you are today. It's like, what 9pm at night or something like that. I don't know, how does this energy up? Right, and how does that translate to your photography? Abrahanny Rodriguez  4:38   That's such a good question. I feel like my passion and my creativity is drawn by what I see and what I hear and my conversations with people. And so my client, most of my clients are our events. And so I love doing behind the scene and kind of just like being just the watchful for photographer, the journalistic view, but I do a lot of portraits I do a lot of, I guess music videos in the Christian aspect. So the some artists in the Spanish genres just kind of hire me on to be a part of their studio set, and then give me little breaks here in between, because obviously, video is the top of priorities. And I've been able to capture some fun moments, I think, because of my personality and got to meet so many and then get referrals that way, because they just love working with someone that's upbeat, that's positive, and that brings good energy, but also a lot of creativity. And so I'm always, I'm always going. And so I feel like that helps me and actually, my energy comes from people, I am a true extrovert. And my husband is a true introvert. So I feel like you're always on opposite ends. And so my husband's restful time, he gets energy from being at home, and I get energy from being around people. And so I think that's really where all of that comes from. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:03   Wow, that's, that's, that's amazing. I mean, yeah, I can really hear that excitement. And who doesn't want to work with somebody with that much excitement and passion in life right. Now, like, you know, like, you do a lot of like, you do travel, and then you capture also, beautiful shots of your travels, you know, one of your MFT collection was from Santorini, for example, as well as other photos that you've captured in the US with the Milky Way, for example. Those shot doesn't really help people in it, but how do you pull your passion to through those because I could definitely see your love for photography and new love for those spaces without the people in it. Abrahanny Rodriguez  6:47   Yeah, that's really interesting. So I was travelling to be a part of a photography conference, outside like an international conference. And I was a part of several of those. But the centering was actually one of the favourite views. Definitely one of the favourite views. Such a beautiful island. And so I take what I what I know, from being a photographer from being a photographer for years now, and apply some of that to landscape. And obviously, I can't compare to some of the big top landscape photographers, but I absolutely love capturing moments like that. And opportunity to show my friends and family where I've been and come back home and show them these beautiful sceneries and people. And so I pour that into that because I feel like oh my gosh, I can't wait for my husband to see this, oh, my gosh, my kids are gonna love it. And so I translate that into what I'm pouring into my camera, what I'm capturing how I'm detailing compositing, we're moving things around, the composition is important, obviously. But in my head, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I can't wait for my bet my friends and family to see this. And so I feel like I bring that back. And that energy into everything I capture, really, my family is my priority is them. And so every time I'm taking something, or I'm looking at something, I was like, Oh my gosh, they are going to love see this. And so I kind of bring them along with me in my heart, obviously. Um, but yeah, Santorini, I did a collection for the NFT for my NFT, and I just, I translated that as like, I can't do anything. Photography wise for this conference, or whatever, because I was there either modelling or taking pictures, learning, lighting, and things like that. But then also, I was kind of separating myself and taking pictures on my own, and kind of going off on my own to capture these specific locations that I thought were beautiful. And then thinking, oh my gosh, the way I can share this with the world and do more with it is to put them in a collection as an NF. T. And that's exactly what I did. And, and yeah, so I have I have a passion to showcase where I've been through images, mainly because I'm thinking, Oh, my gosh, look at this scenery. And so I feel that way, when I see your pictures, I gotta tell you, Stanley like, Well, you already know this about me. I love your images. I love them. They're so creative. I think your composite is great. Your composition is amazing. And so I'm thinking to like, oh my gosh, imagine him there on that ice with his hand with his feet up in the air and his hand on that ice. Like, how did he take that shot? Like my head is just question question. That's awesome. This is you know, and so when I go out, I'm thinking, Man, how can I recreate something that I've seen from another photographer or conversation that I've had with someone that's generated this question like, How can I do this? And so I think that's a lot of fun for me, but it's part of the creative process as a photographer of how can I implement what I've learned what I've heard, and maybe that curiosity man I had this doubt like Can I put that into, and I can't do that with the client. Most of the time, obviously, they're asking for you to be creative, and you are, but you can't really step outside of their box and their timeframe and their timeline. And so when I travel, I have the opportunity to do that to step outside of that box and just kind of do some things on my own. Now, I went to France, and I wasn't on my own, I had a little group, and I am so honoured that I got to travel with this group we shared everything was amazing experience. But then it's not like I have my own free will to just go out and do whatever. But it was so cool. And this is why I'm passionate about community is because we would have an idea, and we feed off of each other. And we were like a little group. We had one model, and three of us were photographers and our little group, our core group as we were travelling, and friends were like, Oh, how about this? Oh, how about that. And then I'm all into long exposure, they said, I was like, Oh my gosh, this long exposure. And we'll put Mimi over here. And we will put the model here and the car passing. And then the other guy travelling with us is a light painter who does the long exposure, and he was teaching us how to do certain things on our trips. I was like, oh my god, that was so and so just to like, share, and, and dive in with creative. It generates so much passion, creativity, just love for what you do. And then you come back from those trips, refreshed, renewed, ready to, you know, do new things with your clients ready to try new things. Because to be honest, sometimes. Especially as I was starting out in photography, I would shy away of doing certain things to clients, because I wasn't sure how was it gonna look, but then I wasn't sure if they would give me the creative liberty to do that. And so to go on, and do these things on our own is just so fun. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:51   Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, it's, it's one of the reason, well, I could definitely relate to what you were saying, you know, one of the reasons why I started photography is to be able to share what I've seen, and it's actually one of the reason why I want to be able to capture better photography, because before when I capture it doesn't really represent what I've seen. So you know, it kind of disappoints me when I share the people. And then I was like, ah, yeah, it's much better when you're there. So that was a big motivation. So it's awesome to be able to hear that from you. And, you know, like, yeah, it's really interesting, because you really find that balance, and it feels like the time alone in your freedom capturing that landscape and your time with people capturing portraits really feed off each other and make your, like, keep pushing the boundary of your photography, which is really great. So before all this, you know, you're you do photography for a living, we do a lot of photo shoot for a lot of people, you know, including some of the welding people and by but before you get there, how did you get started? How do you fall in love with photography and tell yourself that you want to do this for a living? Abrahanny Rodriguez  13:12   I love that. You mentioned that because i i started young, I lived in New York, let me start there. I was born and raised in New York, in the creative state of New York City. And the things that I did as part of my curriculum of school was art dance, and the outside of school as well. I did dance, and I did creative things. I did painting. I was so good at it. But I did a lot of creative things. And one of them was modelling. And I was in love with modelling like for me, that was it. That's all I wanted to do forget about singing and everything else. But I was like straight my mom, both my parents, but definitely my mom was very strict on me focusing on something else other than modelling, and I wanted modelling and so my dad was very reluctant, very, you know, Dominican Hardhead a kind of like, no, no, no, you're gonna be selling your body out there. There's a and, but the experience I had on the modelling agency that I was a part of was awesome. It was very gruelling, because you had to learn a lot of things, you had to do a lot of things that will send you on shoes, and you had to represent very well. So it was very trying very, you know, cross border lines, and my parents were like, no, no, no. But I loved it. And then and then I had to stop doing it. And so, um, but I always looked at how the photographers on the other end, were kind of guiding me and I had to take modelling classes, obviously to represent every time you go out like there's a foundation you have to know and modelling was one of them. You have to know your poses, you know how to how to move a flow every time that life flashes, you know, you move a certain way, etc. How to essentially your body. You I learned this early on as a child. And I've never really used it outside of that timeframe until I started doing photography. Now the way I got into photography was because my firstborn, actually right before my firstborn, we had a trip, I went to Venezuela, my husband bought me a point and shoot camera, and we took it on a trip coming back from our trip, the people we were travelling with, I was singing in this band or this travel group. And they came back and asked me, Hey, can we share the pictures that you took while we were on the trip? So we can put on a bulletin board kind of share how our trip went? I was like, of course. It's amazing. Yeah, I love that to last, you know, like, and we had so much fun. So I had a lot of fun pictures. Like I was taking pictures while we were eating and just joking around at the beach, like really cool things. But not while we were like on stage or anything, mainly because I was singing and my husband playing the piano, like there was, you know, a lot of movement. There's not a lot of time for that. But while we were in soundcheck, I was like capturing the cables and things like that with my point and shoot. So someone told me, you have a very creative bias. This is like super cool. And I was like, Oh, you're so kind, whatever, you know, and kind of left it like that. And then my son was born and my husband's like, you should totally, like use a camera to take pictures of him. So I asked him like, Oh, but I don't think you know, so I asked him for like a better gear, whatever. And at the time, we didn't have the budget. So he borrowed a camera or like a semi pro camera or whatever, and was like, Oh, just use it. And we did two pictures of our baby and, and I have those pictures are so fun. They were just for us. There wasn't for you know, to like handout, whatever. But my mother in law shared it with someone my mom shared with someone else. And they're just like talking about how creative my images were. And I was like, oh, that's to kind of you didn't do anything. But then now the place that I was attending where I was singing, I was worship. I was in worship, I sang in a platform anyways. I was in church, and they were like, you're really good at this next Sunday, we have an event Do you want to shoot? And I was like, Okay, I'll do that. And so that kind of got me started. And that was in Jersey, I lived in Jersey at the time. And that kind of got me started on doing kind of events, learning the ropes of like shooting fast. So then I started taking classes online. Creative Live was very instrumental. Taking classes in person, there was a camera store that had photographers come and teach in Jersey, which I took, and my husband was signed me up for these random classes at this photography store. I was like you're going, I'm gonna pick up the kids. Or you can go and I was just like, oh my god, I literally have an hour to get ready. And it was just like those, like, my husband really encouraged and pushed me forward. And he really saw creativeness in me that I didn't see in myself. And he nourished it by pushing me to go into these classes. And then while I was sitting on these classes, sharing my work, the teachers were like, Oh, this is really good. Oh, oh, you should try this next time, you should try that. And that's how that developing grew. And then I moved to Texas, and I was very, I was connected with some friends here. Because I studied I came to college here, university. And so then they were like, Oh, I have this event. I really need someone to capture this. And then I was like, Okay, how much I was like, No, I mean, just give me money for gas and food. I'm good. You know, like, I'll show up. And that's how that started. And then from then on, I just been shooting a lot of conferences, meeting a lot of people shooting for people with big names only because I knew whoever was managing or planning that event. And so that has been a huge blessing to me. But also the willingness to always learn never think higher of myself ever. I still feel like I'm still learning and growing. I'm still calling on friends and saying, Hey, would you curate this? Tell me what you think about this. And so I think that's important as a creative to always stay learning cameras change, we have to change as well, right? Like gear improve, we have to keep improving. That's my perspective. It says how I see it. So that's how that started. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:25   That's awesome. I love hearing that, you know, and you're such a humble person has, you know, you just like you always you're a great photographer and you always feel like you know, there's more people out there who are better than you and probably they are but you know, you're a great photographer and yourself. And it's, it's sometimes it's hard for ourselves to see what we're capable of and sometimes it takes someone to believe in us to be able to pursue or realise that potential. Wow. And that's really great that you have a husband who's very encouraging you know, that push you and get you to where you are to do your work, you know what your you really love now, but I think that's, that's really cool story to where it all started. So that's amazing. And so, you know, like we talked about kind of start getting to know photography can I just, you know, playing around with it and dabbling with it. And people are starting to believe or say that your photography good, but you still don't think that it's real? Because you know, people who are close to us probably one say when it's bad, right? That's right. So so what is that point when you realise that your photography is actually good, you know, and that your start believing in your work and start saying that, you know, wow, I can take great photographer, I can offer good value to people, I can capture these different shots and share the story, the moment that you live through this photography. Abrahanny Rodriguez  21:10   That's really interesting, because I agree, I feel like I still struggled to this day. And I feel like it started clicking, I feel like I started getting better because I was literally applying what I was learning and just practising often. And I just did it as much as I could set the time, I had two small children to take care of, and I was a stay at home mom, my husband and I decided that, but he but at the same time, I needed something to keep me going. And so my husband would sign me up and get me going. And I was practising my craft, before I did anything outside before I, you know, share my art with other people. And so it gave me some sort of foundation of base to get started. But I didn't think I was good enough for a really long time like yours, like you were saying, until people that I admire or people that I looked up to with say, You got something good going, or they would make small comments, then people that I I respected would share something, you know, that they saw in my image, or they saw in an event photo that I took, and they said, Man, I cry when I saw that image, or and so then it impacted me that I could create something that would impact other people. And then I was confronted with myself with with their conversation because then it made me reflect man, I'm so negative to myself that I can't even accept their comments. And so then I'm having the the tough issue about what what is it that I'm believing? What is it that I need to start confronting within me? And I had tough conversations like that with my husband who always says, but I always tell you, you're good at this. And you're like, No, I'm not No, I'm not like he's like he's pointing out how often I've done it throughout my entire life. And I've always felt like I'm not good enough. And that is something that I still battle. And I also think it's a thought that we have believed that lie because it's a lie. And we believe this so much that in everything we do we come across first with none good enough to keep pushing, I'm not good enough. It's also helped me push through some of my challenges because I always thought not good enough. So I gotta keep keep keep going. But it's also very harmful and very dangerous. And then we have this imposter syndrome where I don't belong here. I shouldn't be here. I'm not good enough for this. Look at all these amazing people. I still feel that way sometimes with my NMC word when they're not selling you're like, oh gosh, what am I doing wrong? Like you're still I feel like that we are all bad, especially creatives, mainly because our mind is constantly creating new things we are meant to create. There's something in us that's innate to create. And so we are always struggling that what are what are we creating and if I'm creating something isn't good enough because I'm a perfectionist at it. So I want to make sure that my show is perfect. And that's a problem. You know, that's a problem. Sometimes we don't always need to get to perfect. But there's there's something about a creative person that always thinks it's not done. And so we push past that and I push past that now these days with talking to people first my husband and then sharing it with people that I admire, sharing my work with, with other photographers that I value their opinion and I can honestly then say, okay, okay, I'm gonna confront this differently because I hear from you and it's so interesting because you hear from other people, there are some pieces that I must say that I'm be like, Oh my gosh, I work really hard to get this, I used a lot of nuggets to get this piece. This was awesome. And it's really interesting because it doesn't always happen. But in that moment, when it does happen, you feel like, I'm really proud of myself. And so it's like one of those pens in the back that feel really good. And it's like a warm hug to your heart that, that you really felt it, you know, and so I feel like those moments are happening more as they age. I feel like I'm feeling more comfortable in my own insecure skin. But I'm confronting insecurity differently. And as a young, creative, that was really tough. But as I'm ageing, I feel like the more confronted with with positive thoughts, but also with truth, you know, like, go go to someone that has truth, they can speak truth into your life that you value and honour their word, and hear them out, and then analyse it, and then go to someone else that you value and honour and value their work and then see, you know, okay, this is true, this is their truth, this is the truth. They're telling me that this is a lie, I believe, for so long that I need to, I need to get past it through other people's words. And so I feel like words are important, what we say to other people, and important, that's why I try as much as I can to be positive with others, because what we say to ourselves matter, but what we hear from other people matter. And I think a lot of people are going around the world, spewing a lot of words that are not encouraging are not positive, they're not uplifting. And so we have this cycle of negativity, that at least in my worldview, in my if I can help it, I'm going to not be that person. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:56   That is interesting. You know, I think it's the same for me as well, it was hard to take compliments until I can't remember was it a podcast or, and he was actually he either a podcast or a book. I can't remember which one it was, it was actually directed to women, but I could definitely resonate with it. Because I couldn't take compliment as well. And you know, I'm not sure if it was coming from your culture. But for me, it was definitely coming from a culture right? Where we have to be humble, we cannot you know, any thing where you say, Oh, yes, I am good. Even though you are good, even though in a humble way, you still look as if you're arrogant, which not necessarily true. And in that book or podcast, which I can't remember where it came from, basically say, when you done something good, and you've been complimented, take it just say you know, don't don't downplay it, because most of the times, like, Oh, you're too kind. Thank you. So you say just take it just off. Thank you. I appreciate that, you know, and give that appreciation. But you're right, I think we are our worst critic, isn't it? You know, it's really hard to tell ourselves that we have done a good thing. And, you know, you you just share how it you've been struggling with this and it's difficult to give you that self confidence and give you that that belief that you are in that level comparing to other people, but how do you pass push past that how what are the things that change to a point that you are okay to take compliment that you can start believing on other people, you know, that we are at that level instead of that, you know, they just saying that because they are being nice. Abrahanny Rodriguez  28:51   Yeah, I like to read. I like to read I find wisdom with in others, I find wisdom. I'm Faith based, I find wisdom in the word, I find wisdom in things around me. I feel like there's a lot of wise people older than us that have a lot of insight to give us as well. And, and I'm constantly searching and I feel like that also helps. But I got to that point, like you were mentioning that you just gonna say accept it. You know, my husband had a moment with me and set up. He just he just put his fingers up and said no, you're not gonna say a word right after this compliment. You know, he's like, just don't say it. And it just got me thinking I've spent all these years not accepting it so it never allowed me to feel confident in what I do. And I need it to feel confident so I can feel confident in front of others. I can feel confident, not fake phoney confidence where you fake it till you make it. I feel Like that helps you get somewhere for sure. But then you have to live it or you have to live it out. And that came is probably a book. It could be a podcast. Sometimes I walk with podcasts in my ears, and I feel like the confrontation. It could probably be much more wrote Myles Munroe talks a lot about courage and stepping up to your fears, and facing them face head on. And I came to one of those moments where I'm alone. And I have all these thoughts. And I'm thinking, I have to I have to live this in real life, like I have to IRL. And it became so important to me because then I didn't want to be fake and I didn't want to be phoney and I didn't want people to say amen. She's really confident from behind and I hate I hate the BS I hate the back and forth and living a double life. I don't know how to do that anyways, because I'm just so me that I don't know how to not say the truth. And I know people find that really hard about me, because I'm very honest, and I am positive but I'm honest. And I think a lot of people have a hard time also and people can can smell the phoney can smell the fake and I just came to one of those podcasts moment. It could have been Myles Munroe as I'm thinking about it, I could be wrong, or maybe another book of encouragement. And it just came to that point where, okay, I need to walk in this. So what do I need to do? So I started asking people that I trusted at the moment, I was leading a group of women, about 150 women, or so I was just I was just doing like administrative work bringing conference speakers in setting things up for for planning ahead. And that way I was leading other people, right. But one of the conference speakers, she was talking about walking in your truth, and I'm walking in that clarity of mine, where whatever comes your way, it's not going to shake you, whatever comes at you is not going to shake you. Well guess what my insecurities were shaking me to the core. And I think I was about 2520, something like that. When I feel like it started shifting, but it was in the later years, like in a few years ago, maybe four years ago, where it shaped me to the core where I didn't want to do this battle, this dance that you always have with insecurity, I just want to let it go just like they're always going to come, they're always going to jump at you. I just have to decide how I'm going to respond at them. And it was in this conversation that I was listening to one of the speakers talk about insecurities and how women, you know, we deal with things differently. Because we're always trying to resolve and look out for others. And we're more involved in trying to help others. And so I was like, I want to come across honest and pure hearted and truthful and and sometimes we don't because of insecurities. We don't know how people are taking what we say or what we do. And I translated that into my art. And that was so important because I gave me a sort of confidence that I didn't walk in earlier on earlier in my creative days. And I felt like that was so important. And I can't pinpoint the moment or the time but I remember that certain conversations that I've heard podcasts, books, they all kind of started compiling into like, this moment inside of me like I was done battling. And I still battle with it, but I feel like I confronted differently where it doesn't like weaken me where I stop. And that's what was happening early on where it would, it would be so negative that I just I would just feel like no, I can't. I don't want to shoot that. I don't want to know. And then it became like no, I have to fake it till you make it you have to then okay push me you get you get to push past certain. And then I have people around me surrounding me encouraging me loving on me. And then my husband obviously pushing me forward and say you you got this you can do this, what you're gonna shoot for so itself, man, you got this, you're gonna be great. They're gonna love you. And they did. And it was amazing. And, and I just feel like those moments were transformative. But it started with me learning. It started with me listening to podcasts, reading books, listening to other speakers that search that inner search. It starts with your inner search and how you are going to confront that and come out on the other side. It really has to do with some inner work kind of you know, and know that you're ever going to get over it but you're going to handle it differently. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:01   That is great, thanks for sharing that, you know, I think it's really cool that you say, you know, you start off with, fake it till you make it and then you end up with walking in your truth. Because I think at the end of the day, if you keep faking it, and you don't really believe in it, then it's not going to change you. And that's, that's really inspiring to hear that, you know, as well as you know, it's really cool that you have a partner who's really as well as a family who's really encouraging about your journey, because, you know, I could definitely see how you translate what they've given you in terms of words of encouragement, you know, believing in, in your, in who you are, and you're you as an artist, and you translate that to someone else, you know, whether it's through Twitter or clubhouse, I can always see that from you. And that is really incredibly amazing to be able to see that. And so one of the thing that I noticed is that, you know, you see that when you first started photography, your your husband would just send you up to classes, and you would sign up to a lot of online classes and stuff like that. And I it's actually one of the thing that I wish I had them when he started, I was I was too cheap. And I was too confident, or I should say arrogant to feel like I could just do this by myself. And you know, if I can make this happen myself, which I ended up did, but it took a really long time, right? Because I have to go through all the different trials and error myself and you know, try different things. But how, how important is that for you? To this this classes that you've taken? How important is that to you and your your growth as an artist as a photographer? And do you think that you know, the money or the investment that you have spent in that have been worth it? And you know, have you been able to shortcut your journey to be able to get to where you want to be to those classes. Abrahanny Rodriguez  37:20   I think that's really interesting, I find education is very important, I find that definitely shorten the, the way you get to that ends, right? If someone else can help you in that process, you're gonna get there quicker. I believe that definitely a lot of people have done what you're saying, where you tread it on on your own, and they've done phenomenal, but they've taken a longer period of time, because they were alone. Now, again, I'm all about people. So even if the class that I'm attending at the beginning, a lot of the class that I was attending, we're all learning I was writing, I was in it, I was, and I wasn't participating, like hands up. And let me try it. It was more like, oh my god, I just learned all of this. Oh, my gosh, that is so cool. And then it was reiterating it that made it more mind like that base and foundation was me applying it. And I did early on with my children, I will take their photos, and I will try different things with them. Which is so cool, because then we have photos of them young. But um, the other side I was looking at as practice, like the next time I'm in a different class, I'm going to show up prepared, you know, and so I was very hungry. And I think that that's different for a lot of people, if you show up hungry, you're gonna learn a lot quicker because you want it the type of photography that I do nowadays, I've met a lot of people that do still photography, but it's different than events, events is very fast paced, lights are changing, you have to know your craft. Because the elements are is going to be element of surprise almost every time. And the last minute you're going to get an itinerary. And then temporary change or something is going to you know, or you don't get it until you show up. They're like, yeah, just shoot, do your thing. And you're like, what's happening? What's going on what's first and what's last, you know, those sorts of things, and you have to know your crap, because you can just wing that and be great at it and they're not going to invite you back in then you're going to wonder why it's because you need it to be good at this before you got there. You know, and so I feel like that has helped me a lot. And it's put me in positions and places to be able to manoeuvre through hard difficult, I guess schedules or difficult moments and then you're like, oh, no, I can't finish this without X, Y and Z, you know? And so I feel like all those lessons all those taught me how to get out of a pinch, right get out of a hard situation. Because I learned my craft early on or I practice and I thought honing in. But then I now can be creative because I know the basic. And I tell this to my son, I actually had this conversation with my son a couple of weeks ago. And then again, before he left to Florida, which he left the day, I mean yesterday, but you can be creative with a soccer ball. If you don't know the basic, you're gonna be struggling with the basic, and my son plays phenomenal. But he has this competition, it's the same with photography, we can be phenomenal. But if we don't know the basic, we can just be thrown in any situation and be creative, because we're going to be struggling with the basic. And I think that for me is so important. And if I can leave you with that tip bit like Han in your basic because then you can be creative with everything else in any situation that you're pushed through. Or if you have two seconds to do one photo, it's gonna come out not because you were phenomenal, but because you knew your basic, and then you were created, and then it came up phenomenal. I've had that happen many times when you're on a video shoot, and then they're like, you have 10 minutes to photograph alone without the video. Make something great because we need a cover photo. And it's like, Oh, okay. And then and then you do it. You can, you know, I know the basic opposing I know the basic of all my stuff. So I just like okay, here we go. And even if it wasn't like, wow, the best and I've always come back like oh my gosh, I could have done I should have done. But then I look back and I think it was good because I knew my basic and I can be thrown in these like, you know situations, because I honed in that craft early on learning through other people. Now when I go to some creative classes now. I'm all in it. For the people. I'm like meeting people in real life. Listen, oh, my clubhouse friends, we kind of all say, listen, we're all gonna go to friends, we're gonna do this. And we did. And some of them had to fall out because of COVID situations or whatever. But most of us that that went had a great time, mainly because we were there to be with each other and have fun. And maybe we were there to learn specifically, but we were there to create. And I think that that's also an opportunity when you do these classes in real life or photography workshops in real life, you're there to create. And so you just, you know, there's always an opportunity to learn and grow with others. So that's what I had to say, workshops. I love it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:32   That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, it's true that, you know, we all this always it can. My mentor, my mentor used to say, well, we probably still saying it, but when he said was, it can always be better, right? But it's, you know, sometimes it just doesn't need to, and it's interesting how you say, you could have, you know, we can always we often we think about how I could have done that we should have done that. But at the end of the day, what you have is, if it's good enough, it's good enough, and you know, you've got to add yourself in the back, instead of, you know, punish yourself for not being able to capture those things. Because at the end of the day, we're only human right. So I think that's really awesome for you to share that journey. And I totally agree with you on classes, you know, now I'm just like, not just gonna go to find someone who can teach me how to do things that I want to learn, instead of, you know, looking at the YouTube or stuff like that, if I could, because it wouldn't shortcut my journey in short cut. And you know, sometimes some of those things that you learn, you might never ever find out on your own as well. So, yeah, it's, it's really cool that you like to read that you like to learn love to go to workshop, and it shows how, you know, it shows on your development as a person as as a photographer. So that's, that's amazing. So, you know, after all these years, you've taken a whole lot of photos, do you have any photo or any moment that you could think of that? Is that you could say one of the proudest moment or proudest photograph that you've ever taken? Abrahanny Rodriguez  44:22   That's a hard question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:24   I like to ask hard questions. Abrahanny Rodriguez  44:27   A hard one. Um, yeah. I feel like I've had the opportunity to work with so many people that I've admire as artists or partner with other photographers that I've admired and and get to meet them in person. And so I just feel like I'm proud of the moment that got me there. And then for sure, if and I just have like, certain shots in my head that I'm just like, I don't remember where it took it, but it's just like so proud of like a concert. moment, for sure, like a big highlight was the shooting at Times Square. I'm from New York now living in Texas. And so to get invited to shoot a concert, in Times Square was just like a big highlight with people that I love and admire who've I've listened to their music for years. Now invite me and my husband, my husband and I to go and photograph their conference. And I wasn't the only photographer, but I was the trusted one that they needed photos right away for the publishing and things like that. And so I had to be more like onpoint everyone else that was there, just kind of like, hey, yeah, we would love to be a part of that. Yeah, shoot for free. Oh, yeah. Then you get Yeah, like, but I was like, this is media related. This is, you know, whatever. So, um, funny story is that most of the images that they capture, and they were all putting it in one hard drive, and they were travelling the next day to what they mana are the creative people that flew in for that. And I wouldn't not allow them to have my images like that, like melodies or raw our way to, you know, wait till they edit, you know, they lost some of the, in the process of gathering so much things that they brought into the square, they had to take back. They kind of like, misplace some stuff at the moment. And they needed it for publication and Mexico right away. So they were like, Hey, can you and I was like on the plane? Like, yes, I can add it. Yeah, I'll give it to you as soon as on that, like, one of those things. But my proudest moment was to shoot at Times Square, I don't care what it was, it could have been an individual image for one person, it could have been a portrait with the square on the at the moment, I didn't care. I was just so excited to shoot at the square. And it was just such an honour. Yeah, I'm just like, you know, those those moments are proud moment for sure. And then I had another opportunity to shoot for the Dallas at the Cowboys Stadium, Dallas Cowboys Stadium, not related to the Cowboys, but they had their mascot come out and all this stuff. I just thought, oh my gosh, this is so cool. I shot there before. But this particular event, we were interacting with some of these characters and people that I see on screen, I'm just like, oh my god, this is so cool. And so I made like on my on my tic tac, a little reel of him dancing that mascot dancing with the people that were there. And it was just so special. And so I feel like I'm I feel very blessed and honoured that I've met. Through my creativity I have met and made some really cool friends that have allowed me to come and join them. And they're fun in their creative moments. And so I'm very proud of Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:51   that. That is really cool. You know, I I love meeting people. I think, you know, one of the things that I wasn't in it for that when I first started but now it kind of the things that got me really love what I'm doing as a photographer is meeting new people and meeting new creative and going on trips with them and, you know, sharing different shots and how they, they are different than the different perspective and how people are thinking differently. And I think that's really cool. So I totally agree with you. And, you know, Time Square is such an awesome place. I haven't been there probably when I was like 12 or something like that. Definitely me to come back so I could see why couldn't be you know, your proudest moment or to shoot? Abrahanny Rodriguez  48:41   Well, Madison Square Garden. I just kept pulling it. This is the Madison Square Garden. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:47   The Madison Square Garden. Okay, right. Yeah. So, anyway, thanks a lot for your time and we're coming to the one hour mark. So you know, there is this question that I always asked my, my guests, which is if there is one advice, whether it's photography or live advice that you could share to the audience who are listening right now, what would that Abrahanny Rodriguez  49:12   I find? We talked a little bit about this earlier about insecurity. But if I can leave you with a tidbit that insecurities are gonna come and go And if we keep push past it, find people that are going to be supportive of you in your art so that you're not alone in your thoughts. So don't be alone in your thoughts. Don't let insecurity stop you. They're gonna come and go have a positive outlook and have someone that speaks into you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:06   What a great advice. You know, it took me a long time to realise that I actually took Tony Robbins seminar. But a few months ago and I was I realised how important our thoughts are and I realised how negative we are often are to ourselves. You know, we don't usually let other people be negative to us, but we do it to ourselves. It's kind of ironic. That is such a great advice to share. You know, I wish I'd known that a lot sooner. But yeah, that's the thanks a lot for sharing that and you know that you've been really good inspiration. I love how you share your story. I love your energy. And I'm sure the audience too. How can they learn more about you and you know, and see more of your photograph. Other than Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:01:01   and thank you so much for letting me share and so grateful. You can always find me on Twitter, at Abraham Johnny AR or Abraham any dot eat I feel like you can search it and you'll find me April hunting My name is comes up on Instagram. I'm Abraham, honey, just my name, my first name. On Facebook, you can find Abraham photography or just Abraham Rodriguez I have both personal and business on Tik Tok. It's also just my name. So I feel like most places, if you just search my name, you're gonna find a wealth of information about me. My website is Abraham needs.com. So you can find some of the things that I've done on there as well for my client work. But yeah, use my name and do probably find me I'm very, my name is so unique. It's gonna stand out. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:56   That's fantastic. All right, well, thanks to all Abra honey for being part of the podcast and being guests and sharing all this knowledge as well as wisdom. We get the hunters, hopefully you find great jam, a lot of great nuggets in there. And hopefully you find inspiration and also listen to some of Abraham any advice that you know she has gone through this process. So why try to figure out on your own when you can, you know, learn from someone who have gone through it. So I definitely recommend you to check out her work work are fantastic. She got beautiful gallery on Instagram, as well as Twitter sees very uplifting, so don't forget to you know, follow her as well as check out her and nifty collection. about centering is that yeah, it's about centering centering. I was just thinking about where that places but yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. Makes me want to go there for sure. But if you haven't, I Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:03:06   want to say thank you, family, I want to say thank you for having me. Thank you for your time and this kind interview. I actually I think you are very inspirational. And you're artists and creative that it draws people to know how in the heck did he capture this? I think you're so inspirational. And you're always very encouraging. And you've been a very good friend to me. So I just want to say thank you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:03:31   Oh, that is very sweet. Thank you very much, um, ever any and, you know, it's it's been something that got me started in photography is to be able to capture a unique perspective of the world. So I always try to think, how to create something that's totally different that you know, people just like, would How did that happen? So it doesn't always translate to every photograph that I captured. But I'm glad that you know you notice that. So I appreciate that. Thank you. All right, well, we count as don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you can listen to next guests in the next conversation that we have. But with that, thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for tuning in. And I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast, this week we have one of the most respected travel photographers joining us. He was one of the first photographers in this space. Daniel started his journey as a photographer back when he was still a PhD student. It took him 8-10 years until he could pursue his passion in photography full time. Since then he has become one of the most respected travel, landscape and adventure photographers. He has taught thousands of students and he's an official Nikon, Gitzo and Lucroit ambassador. He has been published in many magazines such as National Geographic, Digital SLR Magazine, etc. His photos were purchased by leading worldwide brands like Apple, RedBull, HSBC, etc.   If you want to learn more about Daniel's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: https://www.instagram.com/Danielkordan/ https://twitter.com/daniel_kordan https://danielkordan.com/  Link to NFT https://opensea.io/collection/red-sails    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------------------- Transcription: Daniel Kordan  0:00   This is how you can build your own style. And this is how you can learn in a really fast way. Because the process that I undertake, it took me about eight years to 10 years Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:20   Hey wiki hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share photographers journey and passion and how photography gives them hope represent happiness. And today we have someone very special to be part of this podcast, someone who have done this for a long, long time and have been an inspiration to my journey as well. Daniel Corden, how are you Daniel, welcome to Bali. I know you just settling in here in in the island of gods. But very good to have you in the island. How are you? Yeah, hey, Daniel Kordan  0:53   Stanley, good actually settled already getting used to live in Bali in the tropics, and continue exploring Indonesia. I was here first time in 2019. And I really loved it here and the family loved it here. Well, it's the sun, the ocean, and so many beautiful places like almost 17 plus 1000 islands in Indonesia. So I have to explore lots of them and exploring Southeast Asia in general, it was a long lasting dream for me as well, because I covered a lot Europe and America but in Asia is still a lot to explore it a photograph. So I think it's a good base for me for coming here, at least for my nomadic life supplants the here for one year. And yeah, to inspire you more with some photos from Indonesia, and well, Southeast Asia in general. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:47   I mean, I saw some of your brothers from the island already. And, you know, around in Asia, and, you know, you covered it very quickly. So, you know, that's, that's awesome to see some of those places to be taken by someone like you with a different perspective. It's always refreshing. So you've been in this industry a very long time, you know, but what really started your journey, have you always been wanted to be a photographer? Or is there a story behind that? Daniel Kordan  2:19   Well, of course, there is always a story behind some long way. And the story for me started, of course, with my house in my neighbourhood, I think most of photographers, they do the same, they just start exploring from the backyard, in general. Yeah, they go to the forest, they go to the mountains, whatever they have near their house. And this is how I started, when I was 17 years old, 17, maybe 16 years old, that was just wandering in the wild in nature. I was a grown up in Russia in Moscow region. So it was beautiful forests and beautiful lakes. It was a nice playground. So it was just taught by myself or photography. I was also attending the painting school at the time when I was a student. And I guess it's helped us a lot to just understand the colour with colour management in photography later as well to be bold with colours not to be afraid to use some colours and editing in my landscapes and travel photography as well. So I guess many photographers will do the same they just start with a backyard start practising and then they build career build portfolio and start travelling outside as well. Yep, yeah, so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:33   it's actually very different for me i i started photography because of travels it's actually land away from my home that got me started. So that's really interesting. And you know, like that the back back, your back your own backyard inspired to be a photographer because most people take that for granted. So I think that's really cool. Was there like a particular moment within you know that that time where you feel you know that photography makes you happy? And you know, you want to do that for longer? Or is it just you know, you just kind of know ever since you started photography, like I know you share a little bit about exploring the backyard but how do you start photography itself? Daniel Kordan  4:18   Well, it's always kind of struggle of course, because the first steps will make you can't really earn your photography more like investors so you buying new cameras buying the gear you just investing in the in the flight so just yeah, go somewhere. Yes, the first steps. You basically spend more money than you're earning on photography say it was always just a hobby, a passion for me, and it's still a hobby, passion, I can even now I can tell that it's kind of professional or it becomes like a routine work. And also it's still a passion until now and well there was a certain moment when I started earning a little bit on photography, but more was more Some commercial projects like portrait studio, maybe even some wedding. So how was this, like mark on my history with wedding photography as well. So it was just the student and earning some money, but that give me some good practice, how to choose all the settings, compositions help edit images just was really, really good practice for me. But yep, slowly, I started organising some workshops around the world and was one of the first persons who actually make the workshops were just it was not mainstream at all. We just knew all the people actually who make workshops, photography workshops that time. So it was around 11 years ago, 11 or 10 years. Now there are just literally 1000s of people and influencers who are making this. But since then, it's grown up in a huge business. I'm partnering with Iceland photo tours with my good friend UDB Gorski and we have about 45 destinations in our portfolio. So before pandemic, we had about 4000 clients per year, so 4000 photographers per year joining our photography tours, but pandemic hit. And then we change the bit the things I make online courses, online education. So now I have 16,000 students in my online courses. So it's also grown up quite a lot when people join the metaverse and joined online courses. So who knows? Where next year this year will take us but Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:36   we'll see that that's awesome. Wow, that's a lot of students. You've taught a lot of people that's that's crazy. You know, it's, I mean, this just goes to show you know, how, how great and how much people love your photography and how inspiring they are. It is, you know, otherwise, there won't be that many people following your footsteps, you know, as far as being inspired by your photography, what do you love the most about photography, in general, or in landscape photography. And actually, I forgot to say, I would love to see your wedding for like wedding photography, photos Daniel Kordan  7:16   on the website and everything, but I can try to dig specially for you, if you come to mandolin Valley, I will show you in private, you know. Just kidding. But I can try to find, if you surely want wanted, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:32   I can imagine, you know, because every time I see that, even when you should landscape, a lot of them are very intimate landscape, you know, very clean. People in human figure, you have some of those as well. But yeah, so it'd be interesting, I would love to see them Daniel Kordan  7:50   actually build quite a big business on that. Because I was doing that for like three or four years. And last years, I was shooting weddings in France and Italy. So when I was like 20 to 23 years old, I was still in university on my PhD and was just sneaking out, like France to the wedding to shoot for like four or 5000 bucks. It was a good addition, though. My salary as a PhD student at around $200 per month. Really fine. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:21   So what makes you love photography? You know, if there is, is there a one thing that makes you love photography? Or is there a lot of things that make you fall in love with photography in general? Daniel Kordan  8:31   Well, in general, what I like about photography and landscape in particular is the people. So you can ask me why people in landscape? Yeah, but it's the people who are joining my workshops, the people who I meet, while we talk with you right now. So we also kind of inspiring each other, right? So it's a community of people that just come together. There's not just, I can myself a lonely wolf now it's just like, I'm making fun for myself. All the time, I'm turning entertaining myself and the people around and educating them as well. So you always meet with some amazing people and you have something in common. You have in common the passion to the nature to photography compositions. So this is what I love about landscape. It's just inspiring each other. Yeah. That's awesome. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:19   Yeah, I mean, like, you know, if I didn't come across your profile back then I might not be where I am today. So you definitely have inspired, you know, other photographer. So, you know, you've been to a lot of places in the world, right? Have you have you ever counted how many how many countries have you ever been Daniel Kordan  9:40   really not counting countries, but I have favourite places that I return all the time, like Indonesia, right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:51   Like is there like you know, any particular place that really hits home and keep taking you back to those place? Daniel Kordan  10:03   There are so many of them. But there are a few places in particular that really return every year. It's like Patagonia or Greenland or Antarctica. So all of this replaces, it's something that may be part of my soul, my heart is left there. And while always taking workshops, this places like Italy, Tuscany as well. I love it a lot just because you feel amazing there, because landscape is always beautiful. Or you always struggle in Patagonia with the conditions. But eventually you just get rewarded by just some fantastic lenticular clouds and flying skies and, I don't know, beautiful Puma or going like as in the frame against the mountains. And the same from Greenland. And we didn't want we developed absolutely amazing tour with Red Sails, Red Sails in Greenland, and become kind of viral. It just it's one of my most favourite tourism portfolio. Let's say this summer, we sell ready 16 tours 16 tours from June to September, they're fully booked. We just started accepting people for next year. But that's pretty much 16 tours per 16 people each tour. So that's more than 250 people this summer, I need to guide some of them. And we already have some guides for workshops. In late August, September. I just, I can't just guide all of them myself. But we have local guides and some good friends that help us a lot. Educating people in the stores as well. But it's really romantic when you have read sales and you just going among all the icebergs and midnight sun, the sun just never sets there and just throws from horizon for like, five, six hours. So it can imagine like six hours nonstop with the flaming skies. Reflections of the iceberg some whales and seals on the ice. It's pretty incredible place just can go there forever. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:06   That is amazing. You know, and just you explaining it. I know you have a collection that I have checked out your NFT collection on the Red Sails, and they're just so breathtaking. But you know, just listen that listening to that. It's so Sunday already breathtaking without looking at that photo. But yeah, I highly encourage those who listen, you know, to check out his NFT collection on open sea and on the Red Sails, and the link will be on the description. It's just absolutely incredible. How does how does that come about? Is it is it is the other boat? If you have like two kinds of boats, or is it most of the boats there have Red Sails or how does that work? And yeah, yeah, this Daniel Kordan  12:49   boats, they belong to the tour company. So these are all boats, basically. And we're using to sailing boats and make specifically for them. Red Sails, and well, just bringing them for every season for every summer. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:05   And it's cool. Yeah, so you know great Greenland is actually one of my top bucket lists to go to I really want to export the Greenland sound so amazing. So you've been to a lot of these places multiple times, right? Like you say, Patagonia, you go there almost every year while you save every year as well as the other two places. You know, when you go to the same place over and over again, it can be kind of really like boring and you know, you feel like you know it all and doesn't excite you anymore, because it's predictable, you know what's going to happen, but I feel like every time you you take a photo of those new places or I should say of those old places that you've been to you manage to come up with something different something unique, something fresh, something exciting, how how does take us through how do you come up with that you know, so that people who are photographers who kind of feel like they've been to this place over and over again and get bored with it can get inspired and learn from what you've done as well as what you do in travel photography. Daniel Kordan  14:20   Well, first of all, you're completely right that let's see if you go to the same place and make let's say workshop after workshop, it's also becomes quite boring. Like I just decided for myself, I will not go myself myself to the places but I will just put my guides or local photography guides who can take people in the company so you just don't need to be caught on the hook. You know, you got like a fish and you just keep doing the kinds of job so it becomes more like not using passion yeah becomes like office work. Let's see. I love like example Am I love to a lot Provence in France for the first visit, but already the second, the third visit in Provence, it's the same conditions as the blue sky, the same blue sky, the same lavender fields, the same like hordes of tourists in the fields, and becomes really boring. So I just decided, okay, we'll just we'll go there. Yeah, so I'm going to the places where conditions are always different. Let's say this way, I'm going to Greenland to Patagonia. Because every time you go there, conditions are totally different. And Patagonia, you have all these lenticular clouds, they have storms, and the light is really, really different all the time. And you're just adapting to changing the light. And this challenging, so without any challenges, it becomes quite boring, as well. So you're hunting for the light. It may be it's the same compositions that you've seen already the previous visit, but the light may be different, and conditions different. Yeah, also, how not to lose passion in this work. Basically, I tried to make, let's say, one workshop, and after workshop, there will be exploration. So let's say I make one week of education, because during workshops, I just barely have time for myself, I'm always with people, just communicating with them. And another week after workshop might be exploration of some new places around this area. Let's say, next year, I can go to Patagonia, I can guide some workshops. And after that, I go to Patagonian fjords to the other side of Torresdale. Pine, and say, Yeah, so it's a new place for me new area, and just excited to explore it. So all this keeps, keeps me excited as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:45   So, you know, you you take you do workshops, you do online course, and you also do exploration. And you've just, by the way, congratulations on your new board. And if you have kids and family, how do you find the time and balance all that? And I know as a photographer as well, you know, that's not it, right? You still have to do all your accounting or your other marketing, social media. So how do you find all that and have time for each single one of them? Daniel Kordan  17:17   Yeah, it's just all about balancing, as you mentioned, this word balance, right. So let's say I can go for two or three weeks outside, and some other workshops and other exploration. And then I spend the same time with family like two or three weeks, with family. But this is kind of quality time. So you know, just outside in the office and just come tired, exhausted in the evening. But it's a quality time. So you go hanging out somewhere, you just playing some games. So this, this is much better than actually having the permanent job and coming back absolutely exhausted, of the office work. So this is how it is it is trying to balance the whole year. And I can put myself my time. So I'm the owner of my time. So there is no one just head of me telling me okay, you must work two or three months, nonstop, you must go for three months out there. So I can easily just check my calendar and book all the next year, just very carefully balancing week by week, day by day, where I'm going how much time staying back at home with family. And yeah, it's all about balance, like the same with composition of photography, the same as your composition of your Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:30   life. That's awesome. Yeah, I love how you draw, you know, metaphor to photography, because I feel like you know, from photography days, a lot of life lessons. So you know, one of the things that I learned from photography is being able to have a pay out passions, patients, I should say no. As well as patient, of course. But yeah, it's cool. That balance is something that's really difficult to find, and you seem to be doing very well. So before you started photography, you mentioned you were a student as well. And you're studying PhD as well. What what what were they on? What were you studying to become before photography? Daniel Kordan  19:10   Yeah, so before photography, I was studied physics, actually. And I was studied quantum physics, in particular, in my university in Moscow. So I actually didn't finish the PhD. So on the third year, already, I was doing a lot of photography, a lot of commercial projects and had a family. So it just didn't work out for me to finish it because it's some complications in Russia about the science. It's just people didn't pay paid. They're not paid enough to sustain the living. So you have the choice either you making some business or you just going out of the country in Switzerland, USA, and it was hard with already little kids at the moment. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:57   Wow, that's that's really interesting to see fit. agraphia is not really, you know, a job that people think you know, would jump into to make a living, because it is a difficult way to make a living. What made you decide to, you know, do that full time instead of sticking with your PhD, Daniel Kordan  20:18   that was not really a decision in one day like this, I was slowly going to this point where I can abandon the work the job that I do, I have some small businesses like in website design, and website programming as well, that helped me a bit to invest in photography, as well. But at a certain moment, I just see that I had portfolio already, I had some workshops going on, and they started bringing more money. So I just see it and decided to make a little bit more workshops, and in adding a little bit more tours every year. And well, this is how I started building all the workshop portfolio. This is how I started to make it full time. But at first stage, I guess for most of us, it will be really challenging and hard to earn on photography, it just needs to keep trying. And there are many possibilities. Now. It's not like it was 10 years ago without social media, then now we have online education have NF T's you have work with brands, hotels, with air companies, whatever. So now possibilities that they're just much, much better than it was 10 years ago in photography. But still there is a lot of competition, like good competition as well with young travellers, young people who are willing to travel, so just need to be very active. And well keep it going keep it running every day. That's it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:46   Yeah. I love how you mentioned that. Because I know a lot of people can ask me, you know, it's like, how do you do this? I was like, man, there's literally so many ways to make a living, you know, be just travelling or being a photographer. It's just a matter of which one you want to do. So I'm glad that you mentioned that, because I think that that is a confirmation for a lot of people that it's possible to do this. So that's really cool. And you know how this this journey that you had so far, what would be the hardest time of your journey? Is there a time where you felt like you want to give up and you know, you want to either go back to your physics degree or try something else at all? Daniel Kordan  22:34   Well, of course, there are some ups and downs like for all the people. And there are many in my career as well. Because sometimes, you just travelled for moms, and you get so exhausted. And then there are crazy times like pandemic or nowadays a war between Russia and Ukraine. And well, I was living in Russia and needed basically to abandon my country, we still have the dog there in my house. And well back grandparents are still looking for our animals, the dog, the cat, and we're thinking how to move them as well to barley, but in some terrible things going on in the world, as well. And sometimes it's just sad to think about these things, but you can do, you can do much you can help me be I have some also, some charity projects, as well, it was a few years ago, it was about climate change, but also have campaign prints for the planet, also where we donated for growing, growing up the trees, as well. And now also have some empty project for the help there Ukrainian refuges, as well. So just trying to help little by little to the world as well, maybe just a small drop in the ocean. But if everyone will make a small drop, maybe we'll bring the water back again. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:03   totally. I love how you say that. I know, a lot of people can say, you know, someone else can do it for me. But you're right. You know, if everyone just give a little bit of drop in, you know, it will make a lot more difference. So, I'm glad that you say that, and I'm sorry, you have to go through that. But it's really good that you are giving back to the community as well as to the world with your successes. So you know, I think that's, that's that's a really good thing to see from someone who made that you're who who already become successful in what you do. So that's, that's really cool. And all right, this, this might be really hard for you because I'm sure you have a lot of successes. If there was one moment of your journey that you're most proud of, what would that be and why? Daniel Kordan  24:56   We'll hold it I think from the beginning There are a lot of moments like this when you're just starting photography, because even, let's say I remember my first kind of salary for my first photo shoot, I was shooting some concerts in university and organisers, they presented me a cake. So I was so happy, I get paid by the cake. Yeah, for this job. And then they're just the first image that you actually sell for money. And then the first contract you get for some bigger project. And then the thing that really makes me happy. Also, it's the first international, one of the first actual international job because Apple bought some of my images for MacBook Pro presentations and desktops are still I was out in USA and I see my image on every billboard, when Apple just released the new MacBook Pro, it was like 2015 or so. So about nine years ago, so I it was just kind of big achievement, then I don't do much of the photography competitions, myself, just don't have much time for that. But I feel really proud of my students right now. Because there are a lot of people visiting my workshops, and I see their success. And it really makes me happy. Let's say some person can be just some office worker, and maybe some banking. And then he visits workshop got inspired and changed his life. So I already have a few students guiding workshops and blending some amazing deals, so they quit their job. And well, they do what they love to do now, photography and also guiding also educating people. So I'm really proud of this people. Also lots of students that make some exhibitions as well, some charity exhibitions in London and New York, New York recently, so it was very nice. They're proud of them Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:01   at a scale that is really cool. I think that's the one thing that I really love about teaching others is when they can, you know, succeed and get inspired by you. And you know, I mean, your photography are just such an inspiration. Like, every time I look at your photo, right, I would try to dissect it, and I would go like, Man, I wouldn't have thought, you know, you seeing that grass that just looked like a bush that's, you know, annoyed the hell out of me as a foregone. And I was just like, how did you make that look good, you make the simplest thing look good. And that's just incredible. Is there any photography workflow, when you know when you when you go explore, right, you don't really know what your, what's going to come up in front of you. Is there any workflow or, like you know, things that you go through when you try to compress your photography. Daniel Kordan  28:03   The main tip I can give here is, when you're at location, you just need to look under your feet. So you already have some amazing landscape. Let's say it can be waterfall, it can be an amount Brahma is in Java, but then okay, you can make this postcard without any foregrounds without this three dimensional thing, but it makes a difference if you just frame it with some really stunning three dimensional and interesting foreground. And as you say, It must not be called Ticket must be simple, must be easily readable. That's why I'm trying to get a bit closer to the foreground. Let's say it might be some flowers might the leaves may be some just bullsh of grass, but you must be really close to that object on the foreground. Sometimes I'm just as close as about 3040 centimetres even closer. And this helps to simplify the composition as well because you're not including let's say the whole bush of flowers like hundreds of flowers, but you come there you look carefully you find like three five flowers maybe just one flower. Yeah, and be really close to them. This is how you compose Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:11   Yeah, I definitely mean level one. I definitely learned that a lot from watching you you know your photography and you know that forgotten just managed to find the coolest foreground so that's that's really cool to hear from you as an instructor and when you looking at the you know the photography and you say get really close. Does that mean you really like a wide angle lens and you do a lot of focus stacking on your ship on your photography. Daniel Kordan  29:42   Yeah, I do a lot of focus stacking and a lot of wide angle but of course I'm just taking with me all the three lenses I have with switching 2424 710 So Instagram it sometimes you also need to be like director of the movie right? Not just the way the angles things but some details. So mole nature buttons. And it's kind of boring goals if you have the same just wide angle shots everywhere, but you also need to just concentrate on details small things. And then drone photography is my passion as well. I just got myself on the road that maybe 30 to 40% of my portfolio now is made with a drone. It's just another dimension, especially in Indonesia, it's like paradise for the drone rules. Very easy here. I can fly almost everywhere in Indonesia. So I'm using a DJI Mavic pre cine combo for my flights already. I'm pretty happy with it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:39   In Asia is definitely the drone paradise. I remember when I left Indonesia, I just sold my drone coming to Canada, it's just too difficult. Yes, yeah. So you've got a lot of gear, you know, with just mentioned about four lenses, a body and a drone? How do you prioritise what you bring on your back? Or do you always have a massive back on your back? Daniel Kordan  31:06   To always, that's a big problem. This is my cross I'm carrying through all these years. It has nothing to do even switching to mirrorless. Two years ago, I didn't help much because the weight is pretty much the same as it was before. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:20   Yeah. Is that right? Yeah, I know that feeling because I've never hiked Well, I think there's only one hike, which is my very first fight before I got into photography, not actually even that I'd never hiked without a camera and you know, massive bag, so I know exactly what you mean. That's yeah, it's it is. It's a good workout, though. For us. Going forward, what are you know, what are your project? Or do you have any project or any exploration that you want to do coming forward? Is there anything that are on top of your bucket list? Yeah, in Daniel Kordan  32:03   particular, I moved to Indonesia. This like a paradise for me as well. So I'm planning to explore Southeast Asia. There are a lot of countries I've never been to like Vietnam or Thailand. I've been there like family vacations. But let's say for photography, I've never been to Vietnam, Thailand. I've never been to Australia, as well for landscape photography. And well, blank from Belize. It's really easy to all of these countries, even flying to India or Pakistan. It's Japan it's relatively easy. From the side of the world. So this is where I'm I will try to concentrate on the next year. And Indonesia itself is like so many islands Yeah, so many places the sea to explore. Just after tomorrow, I'm actually going for two day trip to lampoon shortcut Guinea here, and the sharks of beach, because it will be also pretty amazing. No two way out there. So next two days will be normal in the night, and we'll try to shoot both sunset sunrise in the Milky Way the Shakti fish. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:09   That's awesome. Yeah. lampoon, I actually never been there myself. So that's, that's really cool. What What are your, you know, workflow on finding these places? Is there any particular things that you look or that excites you to go to those places? Because you know, lampoon might be beautiful, but I'm sure there's going to be a whole lot other places that just like lampoon that's beautiful, as well. What would make you choose some of these places that we go for exploration? Daniel Kordan  33:41   Well, let's kind of some places that kind of epic. Yeah, so I feel like edu lampoon, they offering a lot of compositions, and just, the result might be quite amazing. But it's nice question about where the inspiration comes from yet to make a choice. And most of the inspiration comes from local photographers. So you just what they do is just sign up for local photographers, and which they feed and trying to communicate with them make friends. Let's see. I went already in Denpasar a few times just to meet and hang out with local photography community. Well, they kind of let's say spoiled with the photography in Bali, but they can always suggest some new places some different places outside. So when you talk to them, you they show some locations, places that can suggest you some local drivers. And this is also how our workshops working so we're not just kind of aliens in in totally different world. Yeah, but I'm trying to hire, always hire local photographers, local drivers, local guides, so giving also back to photography, local photography community and involving them in the work with international clients as well. So I think it's kind of good ideas better idea than that. just inviting photographers from Europe, USA to guide in Bali. So let's say my workshops in June, in Indonesia, there will be also just with local guides, local licenced divers, so everything is kind of official and just giving people well needed job after the pandemic Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:19   salutely I think that's really awesome that you did that, or doing that. Because, you know, a lot of times, the local community doesn't really get a lot of from that, you know, from the tours and stuff. So I think it's really cool that you give that job opportunities to this local people, especially in places like Bali, where you know, it's been hit really hard. So, you did a lot of workshop in I mean, you know, what, one of your main stream of income is workshop? I assume, I assume, is that correct? Daniel Kordan  35:59   Well, it depends, because you need to be like a Swiss knife, man. And your income just comes from different things like workshops, and online education, then also work with brands as brand ambassador, or some contracts with also to these boards of different countries. So you always need to be responsive, open for just new opportunities, and just work in totally different way, like MFTs, also worked out pretty well, in the beginning of the year, last year, it's a little bit slowing down, but I hope it will come back to life. Soon. So NFT might be also the future of photography and art in general. So I'm trying to be active in the community. It's hard to sustain, of course, all the fields, like education workshops, and NF T's, but still trying to be everywhere, just just a little bit. And that's cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:59   You know, I was gonna ask how, how the pandemic connect impacted your, your photography, but I think you've answered that really well by you know, having different ways of income. And, you know, it's I think that's important for people to consider not to put their eggs in one basket. So that's, that's really cool to hear. And talking about NFT it's something that's very hit something that's very coming up, right, something that just got popularised how what's what's your thought of NFT? And why did you start an NFT collection or got into NXT? In the first place? Daniel Kordan  37:35   Well, I think in the future is the future of everything we have. Because looking at what's happening, people are ready to start selling and buying houses with NFC, smart contracts, houses, cars, and I think air companies and just booking companies will also soon implement NF T's is the form of payment and the form of really, really amazing and simple smart contract. Yeah, and even now people buy for my tours and include that. So there is an option to just also transfer money transfer payments for the tour in encrypt as well. Just open for it. And yeah, regarding photography, it's also quite amazing. I see that even people who just started photography last year or two years ago, if they're active in the community, community, they're quite successful in the earning quite good money. So the only thing you just need to be super open, active and well, you will succeed. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:36   That's a really good advice. All right. Well, you know, we've talked for quite some time now. And, you know, I know you're a busy man and you have family as well. So I'm not going to keep you out much longer. But something that I always ask my you know, my guess in the podcast is if there is one advice whether it's live advice or photography advice that you could give to other that you know, that you learn yourself through this journey, what would that be? Daniel Kordan  39:09   I think it will be the advice that I actually myself didn't take in attention the first steps because it was almost not poseability about that. This advice will be to learn from online courses, or maybe workshops from other photographers because now most of photographers like Master photographers, they are releasing their courses, online courses, online education, and put a lot in there like let's say myself, I'm released a few courses and really put there everything the person needs to know like from composing shots to editing the pictures. And if you studied these courses, if you let's say try to repeat the style on some of the samples and some of your own images. Let's say you can repeat for like 50 times 100 times Okay, then you download that you remember that, and then you switch to another course, another course another photographer, you can take something from him as well. And then this is how you can build your own style. And this is how you can learn in a really fast way. Because the process that I undertake, it took me about eight years to 10 years to build a career when I'm paid when I'm just staying with leaving with photography. But now I see that people who really invest in this online courses, which are not very expensive, like, just the one course can be, like, just part of the filter for your camera, right. But what matters most is not the equipment, it's your knowledge. Yeah, it doesn't matter which camera you use, as most people at the beginning, they ask about that. But what matters is your knowledge and your education. So to get faster than eight to nine years, like I did, which is dreamt of having just watched some of the courses of my fellow friends, my fellow photographers, as well. And this is how you can accelerate this process, maybe up to one year or two years. And I see really, like life examples of people who invested the time and little bit of money and the knowledge and they succeeded really fast. I guess that's it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:22   That's, that's a really good advice. You know, even for myself, when I first started, I didn't know where to start. And, you know, I don't have I don't have any other photographers to follow or to ask questions to but there was, you know, fortunately, already YouTube, which YouTube wasn't out there, back then. So that already accelerated my journey. And I see that, you know, I like for example, for business and internet marketing, I just took the courses because it really shortcut your learning curve. So you're absolutely right. And I think it is the best advice that you can give other is to learn from other photographers or whatever their expertise may be. Because, yeah, I mean, you know, what is $100 or $200, or $2,000? Right? That's, that's their camera, like literally, and, you know, you can save years and years, like you say, you know, you spend at least eight years to get to a level where you are happy with So, wow, eight years is a long, long time. Daniel Kordan  42:27   I mean, people, they also they started, let's say, watching YouTube, and they get lost, because there's so much information out there, it doesn't have any system in there. And it works totally opposite. For the people, if they say, Okay, I have time this pandemic, many people did this and they start wishing non stop, information just comes in one year comes out from another year, because it doesn't have any system in there. So the difference of the courses that usually photographers make that there is a system and the make where the love the passion, and just step by step. So this is the main difference. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:06   it really well. Because I think, you know, now like you could find anything anywhere, right? But it's just how to find it. So you're right, people, a lot of people get overwhelmed and quit altogether. So that's really good advice. But Daniel, it's been, you know, a really good conversation, love hearing your journey. I love hearing your perspective and the way you see the world through your lens. So for people who want to learn more about you or want to get in touch with you, or even join your workshop, or buy your online course, where can they find you? What's the best way to get in touch with you? Daniel Kordan  43:45   Well, there are two links. The link to my website is Daniel gordon.com. I have some tools to set guide myself then Iceland photo tools. Its main company for my photography business, Iceland for the tourists.com. And for online courses. Its cordon landscapes.com. This is main website for the courses, there are presets, there are online workshops or editing courses. So there's already quite a lot to see out there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:12   Fantastic. Well, they know thanks a lot for your time. You know, it's been a good conversation. And it's been very inspiring to hear your journey. So thanks a lot to be you know, for coming and be part of this podcast and inspiring other peoples who may be in their journey or just get started in photography. Daniel Kordan  44:32   That's my pleasure. So always happy to talk about my passion. Yeah, that's fantastic. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:36   All right, we kill hunters. Well, thank you very much for tuning in. If you haven't subscribed, so feel, make sure you hit the subscribe button. But also don't forget to check out Daniel's profile as well as his work. I know most of you would already know him. But if for whatever reason you've been in a cave and haven't heard of Daniel Cornyn, then go check out his work you will be blown away I promise you but thanks a lot for listening and make sure again hit the subscribe button and I'll see you guys on the next podcast  

Ali Ejmal is a Photographer & Videographer who loves telling stories through his camera lens. Originally from Libya and now based in Auckland, New Zealand. Creativity, travel and learning are the core foundation of who he is. He enjoys capturing special moments with my camera, loves to put a smile on someone's face and inspires others. It all started as a hobby for him. After his last Uni degree exams, he purchased his first camera and has never looked back since!   Link to the photo/s that we talked about in the podcast https://foundation.app/@Creative_hobby/foundation/128156 https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxmiN4BlVA/   If you want to learn more about Ali's work, you can find it here: https://www.instagram.com/outdoorzsafari/ https://www.tiktok.com/@outdoorzsafari https://twitter.com/outdoorzsafari Link to print, workshop, NFT, etc https://foundation.app/@Creative_hobby https://www.uniqueperspective.io/   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  --------------------- Transcription: Ali Ejmal  0:00   That's how I got to where I am. I've always I've never said no to anything. I've always tried new things someone invites me to something you know even if I'm nervous or you know standing you inviting me therapy or podcast, I was like, I'm gonna say yes, but I was like, you know, I was an introvert I've never done one before. Let's just do it. Yeah, let's just say yet Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:26   Hey, weekenders. Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and how they find hope, purpose and happiness, true photography. And hopefully you could find inspiration and life lesson a two day journey as well. Today, I have someone very excited I met him a true Twitter space. He just got one of very inspiring, first Milky Way shot the other day. And I must say it's, it's, it took me I don't know how long until I can take photo like that. So just looking at that. I was just so inspired. You know, he just taken photography to the next to the new level in this past few months. I can't wait to have a chat with him. So Ali, what is going on? How's things in Auckland? Ali Ejmal  1:16   Well, it's South Stanley. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, I mean, it's going it's going good. We just getting into autumn. So we're this shot is starting to change a bit. So, you know, you never know how the wood is you in New Zealand keeps changing every every five minutes. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:34   That's awesome. It means more better weather for for some photography. I suppose the transition periods always exciting, right? Ali Ejmal  1:43   Yeah. 100% I mean, I love I love autumn. It's, you know, it's one of the seasons that I really love. You know, last year, I went on a trip to the South Island in autumn and I just loved it. You know, just the three colours and everything is just so amazing. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:02   That's awesome. Yeah. Look, listeners if you I mean, you can't really see this. And Ali is actually in his car. While we record this. There's so much commitment to make this happen. I'm very thankful for you to make this happen, Ali, but let us know who you are, man. Just a little bit about yourself. You know, where you're from in how you move to Auckland. And what makes you stay? Ali Ejmal  2:31   Yeah, so my name is Ali. I'm originally from Libya, North Africa, if anyone who doesn't know where it is, yeah, I came to New Zealand when I was 14 years old. I came here to study actually. So that's how I came here. It's only meant to be four years study with my family. But ended up staying here now for about 11 years, actually. So. So yeah, it's been it's been about 11 and a half years actually. Now here in New Zealand. I've been living in Auckland. Yeah, you know, I studied high school here and university. And, you know, I just feel now I'm like a kiwi. Now. It's been a you know, it's been 11 and a half years. I just got used to New Zealand. So, yeah, it's been it's been great. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:23   And you're, you're an engineer as well, right? If I'm not wrong, is that right? Ali Ejmal  3:27   Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, I've studied construction management. You know, and when I was doing high school, I was just trying to, like, you know, in high school, it's always a struggle, you know, to try and find what career you want to do. And I've always, I've always been that type of person who, I don't know, I just had it naturally in me that, you know, I've always wanted to, like, find what my strengths are as a person, what I like doing and stuff like that. So, I was, I was trying to figure myself out in high school, you know, what I what I like doing, and I found out that there's a class I took, you know, in the, in the late years of my high school, it's a it's a building class, which basically, you know, you do hard material tech technology, you just make like, you know, little furniture with timber and stuff like that. So I found myself I'm a, you know, I love you know, doing stuff with my hands and, and there was a, we had like, groups of people and they used to come to me and ask me questions about how to do things because like, I was probably the first or second person in that class, actually, because, like, I felt like natural like doing these sort of things that felt natural and people used to come, you know, students come and ask me questions. And I felt like, you know, I'm helping them out, given them tips and stuff. You know, I've felt like, Oh, I was like, Oh, I'm a people person I love, you know, I kind of felt like I love that type of work, you know, like construction type of work. And then and I felt like I was a people person. So I was like, Oh, let me see what I can do, you know. And I found the, you know, I find construction management, which is basically a, you know, it's a field part of engineering. So, you know, I took that path. I went to university for that. Yeah, and just study construction management was all about, you know, people management and dealing with people and, you know, understanding how everything work, and you know, how they manage construction sites, how you, you know, how you get things done, basically, and working under pressure and all that stuff. So that was, that was my strength, as I said, since I was a young boy. And I've also I've always loved you know, I've always loved construction, because my uncle used to, used to do like, he used to have a workshop. Back Back in Libya, he used to, like, have those big machineries that you use in construction. So I've always had an interest in it since a young age. But, you know, as I said, Through the years, I just started finding what my strings are in life and what I love doing. And yeah, so that's, that's how it started. You know, that's how construction started. For me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:31   That's cool, man. Thanks for sharing that. And I mean, it's always good to kind of like hear that background before, you know, jumping into photography, but, you know, like, how do you go from that into photography? What was that first thing that make you want to be a photographer? Ali Ejmal  6:54   Yeah, um, when, when I was 12 years old, my dad actually bought a point and shoot camera. And that was, again, back in Libya. And my dad, like, yeah, he used to take us out on like, little trips here and there, and used to use the camera. And, you know, he gives it to me as well to shoot and stuff like that. And I kind of liked it. I remember one time we went to went to my cousin's house, actually, and they've got, they've got a big farm. And from there, so I just decided to take the camera with me. So I took it from home, went to my cousin's house, and just went out in the farm and started taking photos of horses, you know, the dogs and everything. And I was just loving it, you know, and I also made like, a video, you know, I was I was making a video of us like playing football in front of the house as a little kids, you know? So I don't know, I just since then I like a lot. The, you know, the idea of capturing memories. But I've never really, I've never really thought of anything about photography. I just, I just thought that, you know, taking photos and you know, with my dad's camera, and that's about it. But then, you know, a few years later when I came to New Zealand when I was yeah, in 2018 Basically, that's when I really got into photography. I just, you know, kind of clicked back into me again, but you know, every time I go for a drive or you know, sometimes I take my time that weekend, I just go for a long drive here in the gym, Lachlan, stuff like that, just you know, I used to always take photos and it just clicked in me that I love capturing memories and you know, I love capturing moments like that because I used to always go to my phone and just look at the photos I captured few months ago and you know, always like I always feel like that was great moment you know? And also like when I go to like my brother's you know, any celebration he's got a uni only plan that I always take my phone with me and you know, I take photos of that because again, like I felt like I love capturing memories. So in 2019 You know, after my last exam of like uni time I decided to just go on YouTube and just search you know, what, what are the best beginner cameras and I wanted something that hasn't gone up flip screen because again, I love videos. Well I love doing video. So yeah, I ended up buying my first timer and it's Canon EOS in 50 I still actually have at home yeah, so from there just you know started going locally around the parks that we have around around the area and just taking you know photos and I yeah, I got my I got like room Am I subscribing to my subscription? And I remember I was I didn't know what I was doing then I was just using that saturation slider and just doing all the way of just making the photos look terrible. But the photos look good to me back then. So yeah, that's that's how I started. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:19   I remember. I mean, I was the same with you. When I first started, I used to use that slider so much, overuse that slider so much. And I remember, one of my photo got picked up by the by one of this big account and got shared and I always just get trashed. Everyone is like, oh, you know, slider 200% or saturation 100, like 1,000% or something like that. It's like, it's funny. It's the rites of passage, right? We all can have gone through that we started with, like, we just oversaturated over fibrin photos, because they just look good. But it's yeah, it's funny how that works. 100 And it's funny because m 50 is such a good camera to get started. You know, if there's any student that come to me that ask is like, Okay, what camera should I get? Get em 50 It's cheap. It's great. Even good for astrophotography it's fantastic. Ali Ejmal  11:23   It's great. I mean, speaking of ashlag actually used it like, you know, I use that USM 50 When I started photography for about four months, and then I decided to buy any RSR. But actually, like, about a few weeks ago, actually, I took the USM 50 Back again, like you know, I took the Duster but again, you know, it's okay, and I actually went and tried to shoot extra with it and actually turned out pretty good. Yeah, too bad. Pretty good damages from the, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:53   ya know, for sure. A lot of my first like, you know, Astro, my first my student who are never shoot, but when it should Astro I told them just get them 50 It's okay. And it's perfect. So I agree man and fit they have a lot of potential. But um, yeah, so, man, it's it's good to hear you know, your story. And I think you know, being a photographer that is something that's really big in our in our mind is just being able to capture a moment and being able to savour that moment right and go back to it whenever we want to. Do you have like, Do you have any photo or any moments that are you know, if I asked you about you know, one of your biggest moment that you've captured what is the first photo that came across and tell me about about a little bit about that day and you know, but that adventure Ali Ejmal  12:46   I think recently in you know, in recently from last lockdown we had I think it was August Yeah, yeah, in the August last year. It was a photo that I took it's actually in one of our local beaches in Oakland to Bihar beach. I went to you know, just to basically you know, just take photos during the sunset you know, to lock downs and just trying to get out and just shoot something you know, I just had that afternoon to myself and I was actually waiting for one of my other geography friends here man just while I was waiting for him now he's just you know, just you know, trying to snap some shots and it was a low tide that day he was just across he had a she was wearing she had she was wearing a dress she had a camera that strap on I think was a phone camera by and she was just walking across a ambulance like because it's a low tide there was like an ice formation and on the side with a little bit of puddles and stuff like that all over so it looked so cool and as soon as I saw a weekend I always say I think something as soon as I say we're going to be good photo to take I haven't even taken the photo yet. And then I just put the camera down you know I'm just got the reflection of that water while she was walking and she had that you know, film camera was terrible. That was I think that's my favourite photo that I've taken so far. It's just that moment he might like you know from lockdown just being locked in the house for you know for about two months and and just you know, just trying to get out just to be creative, you know, use their creativity and a sunset in an hour local areas. And you know, that's that's my I think that's my best Yeah, maybe suppose so. Yeah. And I'd say Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:51   that's awesome, man. Yeah, I mean low type shots is a low tide condition. So it makes such a good shot because they are that reflection and you know, all that good. He's on the foreground so, man glad to hear that and you know cuz you told me You said earlier that it was when you're just got out of the lockdown as well, isn't it because you had a pretty lengthy lockdown, right if I'm not wrong? Ali Ejmal  15:15   Yes, yes we had. We have a lot of lockdowns here in New Zealand actually. We go in for like two months lockdown. And then we open up for a few months and go back again, lockdown again. It's yeah, it's been crazy since since 2020. But finally we only have it now. So. So that's a good thing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:40   Yeah, and and so how does? How does have photography help you during, you know, this tough time recently, especially, you know, not being able to travel as much, you know, being able, I mean, you know, during the COVID, we kind of felt like our freedom has been stripped. Right. I mean, it almost felt like our life have been stripped everything that we know about our life kind of just taken away, and how has photography impacted, if any? Or how does it have helped you go through this difficult time? Ali Ejmal  16:19   Yeah, you know, what would photography and you know, during lockdown, it's been a blessing and a curse at the same time. You know? I'm more of like, a local photographer anyway, so it hasn't affected Well, I mean, it has affected me in some ways, but, you know, there's, there's a lot of filters on go out, you know, you know, they don't really spend more than two weeks ago, they asked me to go for trips, you know, all over New Zealand, for example, and so on. But me because obviously, I work as well as construction managers, it's very hard for me to take leave and stuff like that. So most of my travels are local. So it, you know, in regards to look down in terms of photography, it affected me that much, because I would still be able to go to my local areas that I always go to, to take photos. However, I mean, you know, it's, you know, it's been great, especially this last lockdown that we had, it's been great to sit down and you know, have that time because as I said, I work full time. So it's been always hard to try to learn new things with photography and finding the time to do photography. So actually, I've always, even though you know, it's, it's not a good thing, but I've always loved lockdowns because I get to either learn a new thing, you know, I could go to Photoshop and learn a whole new, you know, new skills. You know, that's what I did last, the last lockdown, we had like two months of, you know, just staying at home. And that's what I did. I just went and sharpened my skills in, you know, in Photoshop and Lightroom learning new editing styles, you know, just improving myself as a photographer overall. And when I get the chance, when we are able to at least go out I will just go to the local beaches and just take take sunset photos and stuff like that. But also, like, you know, that last lockdown, you know, it was an opportunity for a lot of us actually around the world. You know, we, that's when I kind of got into NF T's and like, you know, met a lot of amazing people like you, Stanley and and so many photographers that inspired me, you know, during lockdown, like, you know, their, their editing styles, the way they do things, you know, it's just motivated me and I was looking forward for the to get knocked down to the elbow so I can actually go out and shoot because I was inspired by so many people that I met through Twitter Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:04   Yeah, that's That's cool, man. Like I think that's that's that's and I love how you say that right? Because everything that happened in our life have both good and bad. And you know, through the lockdown, I know it's difficult and not a lot of people hate love it I don't like it. I don't actually I don't know any people that truly love it. But there are a few different good that came out of it and you know, you're able to basically harness that positivity and make that into something that is you know, great instead of just looking at the negative so that is very inspiring. And that's great to hear. Right and I hope you know the listeners out there who are still struggling to, you know, to go through kind of lockdown and stuff like that can find inspiration from this. So talk to me about that very You first Milky Way shot out, I know I saw your photo there of the first Milky Way shot. And it was incredible man. And you know, for a first Milky Way shot, it was insane. Like, it took me months. And, you know, until I got my successful shot of the stars, and it took me another like, probably half a year or something like that until I shoot my first Milky Way. So to see that you're able to capture that that was amazing. But what I'd like you to share to the listener is what inspires you to shoot the Milky Way. Why? Why the Milky Way why, you know, because the sunsets are beautiful sunrise, the bluebird shots are beautiful. Why do you go into this hassle of going at, I don't know, to one o'clock in the morning, I'm guessing, and try to find the Milky Way. And Ali Ejmal  20:56   again, you know, like, before, me going into Twitter, and you know, getting to meet all of those lovely ographers before then I really be an abrupt but, you know, hearing the stories of the extra photographers that I met through Twitter, there's a lot of them here in New Zealand as well. You know, you extended as well, one of them, like, you know, just like through tweets cases, I just loved their journeys that were talking about when they were gone and taking the Milky Way shots. I just I was inspired. I was like, Oh my God, I want to try this. Or at least try it once. You know, and I've seen so many beautiful photos, Milky Way shots on Twitter, and one of them is LeBron Ray. He's, you know, he's, he's one of my good good friends here. In Oakland. He's actually photographer. His photos are crazy good man and the work ethic that that guy's got, it's just insane. Like, he's, he's so committed. And he's he's inspired me a lot, you know, and, and he's actually the one I remember, I was telling him, I want to fit in, I want to get into this extra stuff, like I need I need to add, I remember me and actually we went shopping, you know, and he's was telling me which you know, which lens best to buy and, and you know, which tripod and stuff like that. And actually, yeah, we went shopping for my 24 millimetre lens. One point I you know, so, and I bought my tripod, and, you know, and then he actually told me some, you know, before taking that shot that we're talking about. He actually, you know, taught me, you know, just few things through messages. And I was like, What do I do for my, for my first thought, I'm gonna go and take time tonight what what should I do what, whatever tension I have what, you know, what's, what's the ISO and what's all of that stuff, and he was just, you know, being in detail telling you how to shoot it and how, how to do everything. So again, like I was inspired by so many of the photographers that we have on Twitter that I've not, I mean, so many amazing photographers, just the list keeps going. I mean, Stanley, it's huge to me. I mean, Laron. You know, we've got Kenny, we've got, like, so many so many amazing photographers. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:32   Yeah, that's cool, man, that's really inspiring. And I love how you shortcut your learning curve, right? Just by going to someone who have gone through someone who know what they're doing and just, you know, find a recipe from them. And you know, I think one of the one of the things that I learned from my journey is that the best way to learn something is to model someone who've already done it and to immerse yourself in that subject and you did just that and you know, that photo was incredible man it's one four it's just such a beautiful shot composition wise as well as you know, exposure and everything so man massive Oh, excuse me massive congratulations to you for making that happen. That's awesome. And thank you yeah, so what what was the learning what was the learning from taking that first QA shot? I mean, you don't have to go through too much details but in a higher level. You know if somebody can come to you as like, hey Alia. So your first Milky Way shot and they're incredible and by the way, guys, we'll put a link on the description so you guys can see this shot this incredible shot. So if people come to you and say like, Hey, I want to you know, take awesome shot like this, like what you did on the first Milky Way shot. What are some of the advice Well, says what are the top three advice you would tell them? On, you know, being able to make that night a good investment and a successful astrophotography outings? Ali Ejmal  25:12   Yeah, well, the tips I would say is, like maybe go out with, you know, a, a professional extra photographer, you know, first of all, just to just to, you know, to understand how they go, because that day actually, I went, I went out with my good friend use of him and his wife, actually, we went out and shot that shot. But yeah, I would say go out and, you know, and just experience how other photographers, you know, how other people would be. It's, it's their bread and butter. They know how to do the sort of work, so just go out with them and, and learn the way you know, when I was out with user, I was looking at how he's positioning everything, how is he, you know, how he's zooming in on the stars, and getting, you know, focused? And so on. So, yeah, my first step, I would say, you know, just go out within astrophotography, so that you actually learn that while you're doing that. Secondly, I would say, maybe, learn how to Yeah, I mean, maybe doesn't talk about it already. But, you know, like focusing, I mean, you know, I don't have a tracker. So I mean, I've just started so I'm just, you know, using a tripod and a camera on the lens, I would say just, you know, learn how to focus on the stars, make sure that you do know, your pinpoint your focus, to get there, you know, a sharp shot. I mean, it'd be nice to get a tracker, you know, a tracker is like, the next thing for me to get, you know, mix your image a lot, a lot sharper. But yeah, I mean, you know, learn your focus. You know, and that's, I think that was a big learning for me, because at the start, I didn't know what I was doing. Until actually, I was showing body. My, one of my Astro friends how to focus on that on on that side, because I was trying to focus on I was like, Is this good? And he was like, Man, I'm like, this is blurry, you got a good other area. So, so yeah, that was that, you know, that was a great learning curve for me. And the third one, I would say, the best learning I had would be how to stack images, you know, usually using stacks and, you know, if you have programmes and just really diving into first time extra Milky Way shot was, I felt like was good. But if I, like, you know, zoom in and look at the details, I can, like, see around the trees and around the, you know, their satellite is a little bit of, you know, that hazy, you know, shadowy, not, because, like I haven't masked the sky correctly, and stuff like that. So, I've learned from that as well, after I posted the photo. I was like, oh, no, is some, you know, some shadows and stuff like that. So, yeah, so just learning, you know, learning how to stack the images, and then also just, you know, mask the sky around, like, you know, around the edges between the foreground and the background, and so on. So, yeah, I think those are my three tips. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:35   That's awesome, man. I mean, like, it's cool that you capture that, you know, especially with the first your very first Milky Way shot. And I know, like a lot of people say, you know, you get a tracker, because you can get a lot cleaner shot with a tracker, but I don't have a tracker as well. You know, all my shots are off the tripod and a camera. And there are a lot of different things that you could do in a pose to kind of or in during the show during the shoot as well. You can make it a higher quality. So yeah, that's, that's awesome to hear. You know, I think that is a really good advice to just find someone and just, you know, gone through it, learn the technical details and then you know, post processing that's, that's literally like the pillars of making photography great, right? Yeah, man. So like during your journey as a photographer, do you ever come across a time where you felt like you lost your passion for photography or you have a burnout or you know, things like this? Have you ever come across time like this at all? Ali Ejmal  29:49   No, I've never, ever come across a time like this. The only thing is, which I'm actually going through right now is finding my A niche, right? So I'm still trying to figure that out, you know, in regards to just finding what I, what I want to do with photography, but in regards to, like, you know, burning out or feeling like, the creative process or anything like that, it's never happened. But yeah, like, lately I've just been trying to figure out what I want to do with photography, you know, what sort of, you know, you know, what sort of photography genre I want to I want to do, like, my first inspiration, or first videos I've ever watched when I started filming was Peter McKinnon. And I've always loved his style. And he does a lot of different things. You know, he does. Landscape, he does so many things. So that has inspired me, but I'm still, I'm still trying to figure out, you know, what, what is specifically I'm gonna do in photography, but yeah, in regards to, you know, this creative route when he thought that I've never had never had it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:04   So that's cool, man, like, you know, I think finding a niche is very difficult, and some people just given up on it, and don't bother on it. Right, which is not not not a bad thing. But well, we'll talk us through for people who are in this process, right? I'm trying to find a niche and everything. What, what are you doing right now that kind of? Well, what are you doing right now to be able to find that niche to be able to, you know, get you closer to that, because I see that you kind of try a few different things, and you kind of change, you know, and stuff like that. So just talk us through, like, you know, the journey and you know, how that journey goes. Ali Ejmal  31:50   Yeah, so when, when I started photography, you know, I started that on the basis that I wanted to do landscapes, you know, landscape photography, I was taking a lot of landscape shots and stuff like that, but then I wanted to expand on new things. So I tried, you know, architectural photography, street photography, because, again, you know, I do construction management, so I love buildings about structure. So that was another thing that I, you know, I got into I got it too, you know, you know, the buildings actually, that I built. I just can't take photos of them and stuff like that. So, yeah, so I got into, you know, I would say just, you know, get into different things. So that's what I got into so I started actually photography, architecture landscape. I mean, I, you know, I had a lot in cars, you know, automotive so then I took a few shots of cars as well. You know, I love a lot of fullback for vehicles, I love like, you know, those offroaders I've always have love for these people. So, you know, I just go to the beach, we've got a beach here in Oakland, but you know, grandmother for photos on them, they they always go there, you know, just, you know, take the cars over there. So I was always taking photos of the cars and stuff. Yeah, I think I think these are the, the, the ones that I really fell in love with, I can put a product for the photography as well. But I don't feel like I loved it that much. So I tried different things, you know, I just keep trying things. I always try different things, different styles of photography, and just see what what works for me at the moment. I love landscape. That's number one. And then I love, you know, cityscapes and street photography, that's number two. And the third one is automotive. I love those three, those are like my favourite. And I, that it's, you know, I'm trying to niche down even more, and try to figure out why you'd like to be more specific. But I feel like I don't know if I could because I'm just struggling because those those three, I just love so much. Yeah, so I'd say just, you know, keep trying different things. And I keep telling myself every day as well just keep trying different things and just see what works. For me, you know, on a, let's say, product photography. I tried that. But that's kind of the list now I just started. didn't feel like it. Right. So, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:27   yeah, that's awesome. And I think that is very true. One of the best way to find your niche is just to try a bunch of different things. I know that had worked really well for me, so and I know a lot of people who cannot even like you know, they don't even to their professional career, they have changed niches and that's okay as well. Right. So yeah, thanks for that advice, man. That's a really good advice, especially coming from someone who's in it right now. Right. I think it's easy to you know, for people to I judge people that have already made it and it's like, and just kind of brush it off because oh yeah, but you know, you already made it. So this must be easy. But, you know, coming from someone like us actually in the journey, you know, finding that path. That niche that you really enjoy in photography is, is very relatable. Right. So that's good to hear. Thanks for sharing that. So you let's talk about, you know, a lot of your photos. Now you have what, seven photos you mentioned on minted as an NFT. So before we get into that, let's talk about why you want to get into NFT. Ali Ejmal  35:50   Yeah, so NF T's. So first time I've ever heard of tes was early last year actually was around January or February. Like I had Gary Vee talk about it and stuff like that, but like, it's just like, you know, just a quick thing, like, you know, what the hell. So back then, when I was in a trip, I was done the sound fun actually, in? I think it was yeah, it was in April last year. And we have a photographer here in New Zealand, his name is Caleb Caleb Johnson. If you guys have heard of him, he's you know, is he's one of photographers in New Zealand that got into NF T's. I remember I used to follow him on Twitter. I hate Twitter back then. But I've never really used it that much. But I just started using Twitter, in you know, around that time and I used to follow him. And he used to, you know, tweet about as well talk about NF T's but I still didn't understand what the meaning of three was. Until June. Last year, I still story Instagram story of pays tindy she's a photographer from Utah. And she was saying that, you know, she's listed some of her photography on as an industry on foundation. And she had like a link on this story. So I was able to click on the link took me to Foundation. And then you know, I did died from from the, you know, like, I did that into Foundation. And I was like seeing her work and other photographers work. And it was just showing me so much stuff. And I was like wow. Since then I was like, I need to get my head around, you know, NF T's and how it works. And I basically got into clubhouse that was, that was a thing back back back then. So I go into clubhouse and I was just listening to photography videography, chats and NFT chats. And I was just trying to get my head around whether there is I was just listening in I was an introvert, I couldn't really talk, I can't really go up and talk I'll be so nervous, I'll just, I'll be just listening and I will be just, you know, trying to absorb as much information as possible. I was doing that for about a month until end of January, basically. And then this is when I sorry, to end of June last year and and after, you know, end of June, Twitter spaces started and stuff like that. So I got into Twitter spaces. And then I felt really you know, after I'm like doing research, I felt ready to put my first book on foundation. I got an invite to a friend who who I met through clubhouse. And yeah, I'm gonna invite foundation and start putting my photography in there. And then I said go into Twitter spaces and meeting new photographers and getting to know them and I was very, very nervous at the start. Like, you know, as an introvert, I couldn't really talk that much I didn't even know how to you know, I felt like I think the English as soon as I got back as a speaker, I just, you know, I felt like I forgot the whole English language. But yeah, I just got my head around it and just making new friends. Yeah, just, you know, just the journey that keeps going and going. That's still there right now. Can use Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:42   So, sorry, I didn't realise I was muted. Yeah. So what made you want to like mint, your work as an NFT you know, what is your vision and to make that Ali Ejmal  40:03   Um, as like, as I say, like I was here, like, I started deep diving into NF T's and I felt like a lie, I started understanding that it's it could be, it will be, it's going to be the next, you know, it's going to be the next thing in the world is going to be a neat technology. I'm, I'm a futuristic person, that's what they're my strengths in my personality. So I always look ahead and try and understand how things work in the future. And I felt like, you know, when I got into NF T's I was hearing like Gary Vee, I still listen to him all the time talking about MFDs. And, you know, just from understanding how NF T's work, when I was doing my research, and so on, last year, just clicked in my head, I was like, This is gonna be the next this is gonna be like, you know, this is gonna be like, the new Internet back in the day, this is going to be like, you know, the new opportunity, but you like social media sort of hype, you know, back in the day. So I was like, I need to get into this, because I've had missed opportunities before previously. So I was like, I need to do this right now. So I'm glad I got into it in June. You know, and, as I said, it's, you know, NFT is, is like, you know, it's you put your work on the crypto in the, in the, in the blockchain, and it's a way for you to document your work, but also to, you know, just to share with other people and sell it online. You know, as as an NFT, which is, you know, it's a non fungible token. So, you know, if you put it out there as an MFT, it's out there. And, you know, no one can copy it, you know, no one can steal it, even though you can, you know, right click, save the photo, whatever. But, if you if you go back and look who owns that, it's, um, you know, it's, it's, I mean, NF T's is, and the community behind the fees as well. It's like, amazing, so many amazing people. So, I'm so glad I got into it. You know, I mean, if I, if I didn't listen to Gary Vee, or, you know, if I wasn't curious enough, like, you know, I was, I was curious since the start, but if I didn't have the curiosity, I don't think I would have got into it. Yeah, I'm so happy. And I'm so proud of myself that I was curious. And I got into, and if these because a lot of people, you know, like, opportunities like this, they just say, oh, whatever, you know, now, it's fake and all that stuff. Even if it's fake, you know, anything, anything that's even fake, I always try to get in there. If people are doing something, there is an interest, then I will just jump on it. Even if, you know, even if I heard bad things about it, I would just go and try it myself and then make my own decision. My own opinion about it, but I'm like it, I'll just move on with my life. So yeah, I've always had that curiosity. So I was like, whatever, you know, even even my dad was telling me NF T's is you know, he was telling me to scam and all that stuff. I was like, I'm just gonna try it out. Yeah, no, I'm just gonna try and see how it goes. And I'm glad. Because as I said, the friendship and chips itself is like, you know, it's, it's worth, you know, it's worth everything in my laptop. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:39   Yeah, man. That's awesome. I mean, I'm guessing you come across LeBron from NFT. Space, right? Ali Ejmal  43:46   Yes, yeah. Yeah. I've met like before, lefties? I didn't know many photographers here in New Zealand, per se. I've met through nfts. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:55   So your, your milk, your you could argue that your first meal QA shot was successful because you are in the NFT space. Right. But exactly, exactly. But I love that man. I love what you say that because a lot of people judge before they even they judge based not based on their own experience, but based on what other people say what those experiences are. And that's just sad to hear, right? Because, yeah, like, I see that a lot of people have a bias and when they before, if they don't get into it and immerse themselves in those, whatever it is, it's easy to say, you know, what work and what doesn't work. But when you are immersed in that that's when you get to understand fully of, you know, all this thing, and yeah, it's just it's sad. up, people are not giving it a go. Because it's such a great thing. It's the future of the art world and, you know, it will change the world for sure. You know. So I'm glad that you say that to give it a try anyway, you know, and have this. And that just goes to show that you know how courageous you are. Because a lot of people, you know, think about the failures, everything that could go wrong before they try it, but you decided to take a leap of faith, and just give it a try. And it worked out pretty well for you. But yeah, I'm that was just inspiring to hear to hear us share that. And for those of you who doesn't know, what's NFT, is, I'll have a specific episode to explain to you and the link is just down below as well. All right, well, Ali, you know, it's been a great conversation with you. And it's one thing that I always ask my, my guests in the podcast, you know, if there is one advice that you could give to the listener out there, whether it's a live advice, whether it's photography, advice, whatever it might, it may be connected to, you know, that got you to where you are today, what would that advice be? Ali Ejmal  46:24   I would say just be curious, you know, try new things, try different things. I mean, that, you know, Curiosity is that is like, it's it's so powerful. A lot of people, you know, don't give curiosity, a lot of credit, but I mean, it's, you know, just try new things, you know, always saying, yes, you know, like, it doesn't matter what it is, just say yes, and just don't do it, try it, you know, try whatever, you know, I don't know, football or whatever, in life, you know, just go and try different different things, because that's how I got to where I am. You know, I've always, I've never said no to anything. I've always tried new things. You know, if someone invites me to something, I'd be like, you know, even if I'm nervous, or like, you know, like, you know, standing up biting metre to a podcast, I was like, I'm gonna say yes, but I was like, you know, I was an introvert. I've never done one before. And I was like, let's just do it. Yeah, let's just say yes. So, yeah, I always say yes. You never know what it takes. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, saying yes, to NF peas and stuff like that. I mean, that took me to places I've never been to before. I've met so many, you know, friends all around the world. I've been to events in New Zealand, you know, and that's, like NF T's and stuff like that. And, and I've learned so much in regards to life, but also in geography and the fees and everything, man. Just always be curious. That's my mindset. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:52   That's awesome. Man. That is awesome. I mean, it's funny, right? Because I wasn't very curious when probably a good part of my life. And at one point, I decided to be curious. And here I am right now, you know, I left my engineering career and become a photographer. And it has been the best the best decision in my life. Right. And you're absolutely right. You know, it might be scary, but you know, it might just be the best decision that you'll ever made. You know, I mean, it took me 30 years to find my passion, you know, in photography, and yeah, I only find it by just trying different things. So that is such a great advice, Ali. Well, Ali, thank you very much for being here. And thank you very much for sharing all your journey sharing all your wisdom and for the people who want to learn more about you Where can where can they find you and connect with you? Ali Ejmal  49:00   Yeah, you can find me on Twitter, my handle is outdoors sky. Yes. So you can find me on check me out and yeah, let's have fun. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:18   Fantastic man. Yeah, we will put you know all your links on the description below and you know, for those of you who are into NFT and like to look into NFT in photography, Ali have also a collection that will be you know, the link will be down below as well. But yeah, Ali, thank you very much for being here. Man. I'm really appreciate your time, your commitment to be in the car and make this happen. Ali Ejmal  49:48   Thanks very much, Stanley. It's been a pleasure, man. Thanks for having me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:53   All right, we can do is there you have it. Hopefully you have a great time listening to that get a lot of inspiration from our The perspective and journey. For those of you who haven't subscribed, do subscribe so that you don't miss out the next interview and the next chat will be very much appreciate if you leave a word or two on the review if this podcast has been inspiring or helpful to you, but it's been a great time. Hopefully you enjoy the chat today, and I'll see you guys next week.  

“Seasoned, creative, and authentically Irish – that's me, and that's my photography.”            No one photographs the same river twice. Darren specialises in landscapes and seascapes for precisely this reason – the ever-changing, never predictable, but always dependable beauty that abounds provides an endless feast for his photographer's eyes.   His goal is to capture that beauty and share it with the world. When he's not crouched midstream praying, my nonslip soles hold true or hiking steep rocky inclines for that perfect aerial view.   You can find on the Irish Photography Podcast talking about everything photography with guests from around the globe.   The photo that was mentioned on the podcast: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cb5S6LhKmcz/   If you want to learn more about Darren's work, you can find it here: • Subscribe to his YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/DarrenJSpoonleyPhotography   • Listen to my talk about everything photography here on The Irish Photography Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-irish-photography-podcast/id1434087730   • Instagram - https://instagram.com/darrenjspoonleyphoto • Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/darrenjspoonleyphoto • Website - https://darrenspoonley.wixsite.com/photo   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------- Transcription: Darren J Spoonley  0:00   that then can start creating and fueling, as you said, the imposter syndrome because they're thinking I'll never be as good as this other person, but an actual fact they shouldn't be aspiring to be as good as anybody else other than being better than who they were themselves yesterday Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:19   Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and how photography has given hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have Darren all the way from Ireland. How Darren J Spoonley  0:33   to kid me to fall chickadee are so Irish for how are you? And you're very welcome from Ireland. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:40   Fantastic. Yeah. Man, I always love the Irish accent. I wish I have the Irish accent to be honest. But welcome, welcome. And how are you doing? Darren J Spoonley  0:53   I'm very good. Thanks. Very good standing. Yeah, good to finally you know, see your face. I know we've been chatting, you know, as we've kind of reminisce, go for over a year, I suppose you're good now to come on to your podcasts and have a chat about subject I'm passionate about. It's a subject I think that is very rewarding, very frustrating, very entertaining, can be all different seasons in just one day. So I love the outdoors. And I love photography. So yeah, you'd be hard pressed to stop me talking. Let's put it that way. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:19   That's fantastic. That's why we have you here. And I know, it's five o'clock here in five o'clock in the morning here in Bali. And it's 11pm. So it was hard to find time. But when we find the time that could make you work. But before we get started, can you give the listeners a quick introduction of who you are, you know, whether you do photography for a full time or as a as a just as a hobby, and just a little bit about yourself and who you are in this world. Darren J Spoonley  1:47   Sure, yeah, Darren is my name. I'm from Ireland, I'm a, I suppose a semi pro, semi amateur semi passionate photographer, it's something that I use on a day to day basis to kind of keep me sane in a world that's going a million miles an hour. Photography, for me is something that I use as a tool to be able to help me to be able to kind of keep a balance, you know, most people can have sports or different types of hobbies. For me, outdoor photography is both because I'm out I'm walking and hiking, I'm out for long, extended periods of time in the fresh air, and you want the bonus of all that is I have my camera with me. So I can take a photograph. And it's something I think that a lot of people get into. But it's not really something very good at very fast either. It's a long journey. And I'm in Journey, enjoying every part of that journey as I've gone through it all for years, and I keep evolving. And every time you go with the cameras, the school, everything you do with the camera, keep practising and you'll always get better, and you'll learn from your mistakes, and it's okay to make mistakes. And that's where photography, for me is such a fascinating subject. I mean, as I say, I'm mature hobbyist, but it's all consuming, you know, I not only take photographs, I've got my YouTube channel, I've got a podcast myself, which is called the Irish photography podcast, I have a number of Facebook groups that I've created over the years to help people in their journey, and to really get more involved in the whole aspect of how beneficial photography can be. So that's a quick intro, I suppose really, I know, we'll probably expand on a few doors as the conversation will go. But it is definitely a great topic and a great subject and a great thing to be able to have a great skill set to be able to have in your bag. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:20   Now Wow, that's crazy. Like you do all that well, you know, doing a full time job or running a business as you say that. And so what is it that got you started into photography? What was that first thing that make you you know what, this is awesome. And I really just want to do more of it. Darren J Spoonley  3:39   It's an interesting question. For me, it's something that started at a very, very young age, my brother was always into photography, and I shared a room with him. And he was back in the film days, and he would turn the room into a darkroom. So we had the doors closed windows blacked out, the red light will go on, you know that you wouldn't if you were in the room, you couldn't leave. And if you're outside the room, you couldn't come in. I kind of grew up with it all the time. He was very smart. And what he did is that when he was developing his firm solutions, he didn't spend any of the solutions on his side of the room. He's built all the solutions on my side of the room. So all of my sheets and everything else were ended everything from all the solutions from developing film. And I would have always had a camera of some sorts. I remember when I've probably been my teenage years, I kind of got my first digital camera, it was a one megapixel camera, and I was wow, look at this thing. You know, I'd take my images and there they were, okay, people always say to me, Oh, I didn't pay for photography, but I never really thought about I just take some photographs of inanimate objects. But the catalyst for me was probably in around 2013 Because in 2008, I got my first DSLR and it was a Canon 1000 D. And I got my first couple of shots and I'm thinking well, yeah, okay, this could be interesting, you know, you kind of get a small bit of bravado thinking that you're good, you can get a couple of shots. And this is before I ever shared anything on social media or anything like that. It's just me taking images. And in 2013 When I got married, actually I went on it honeymoon, I went to Borneo on my honeymoon. And I brought my camera and I was thinking, Okay, I'm gonna get some epic shots here. You know, we went to Borneo, I wanted to get some photographs of the orangutangs and everything else, all the wildlife. And I quickly learned that I hadn't got a clue. Because I was on a boat. It was very interesting story. Actually, we were on a river cruise. We got up one morning. And the guides that was quick, we're in luck, guys. You know, there's a few pygmy elephants along the bank. And I was thinking about picking the elephants. I didn't know anything about picking the elephant. So Indian elephants ever renewable pygmy elephants. So of course, I was really excited to go see these. And of course, I had my camera. But when I started taking photographs, I quickly became very frustrated because I'm looking at the back of the camera, and I couldn't expose them, right? Every single image was blurred, and I didn't know what I was doing wrong. And I kind of said, Okay, should I go into auto here and try and get these photos? At least I had something but I didn't want to do that. I wanted to, you know, proceed on to take the photographs. I No, no, because I said after 230 2013 Alright, I better learn how to do this right. I better learn what went wrong today, if ever was in situation again, I could take those images. And it transpires that the lens that I was using didn't have image stabilisation. That was the first thing. Second thing is I was on a boat. So the boat was moving. I was shooting into a bank, which was covered by trees. So it was in shadow. And my exposure time then would have been too long. And I didn't really understand that. So in 2013, I said, Okay, I'm going to learn how to do this. And it kind of started my journey, which is now just nine years ago to stage but I kind of went gung ho into photography at that point. And it's been something that has consumed me, like I said, it's been something that has been really rewarding. I've met a lot of people through photography, I've had a lot of close friends through photography. And it's something I think that I really wanted to understand what went wrong, but also, how can I get better? So that was the catalyst 3d, you know, so it's been there since a young age, but 2013 was that little bit of a button that after I got back from Borneo, I was damaged, all the images that I thought I had, I think I got two images that weren't blurred, but at least I have some blurry images of pygmy elephants anyway. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:03   That is hilarious. And it's funny because I started photography because of a trip as well. So I could definitely relate to that. And yeah, that's, that's, it's so funny how. And I have I've got another experience where I mean, this is this was back, you know, when I was already started photography, I know what I'm doing. But I made a mistake. And it like, all of my shots, or that I want it was blurry. Yes. It was a good job. I was blurry, unfortunately. So I know exactly what you mean. So was there a particular reason that make you want to buy DSLR? Or, you know, you just thought, you know, what, you know, because what you see from your brother and stuff, and you know, you think to yourself, I think I'll give this a go. But what was that reason that make you buy DSLR to begin with? Darren J Spoonley  7:53   I think it was because I would have had point in shoots before then. And I wanted to have a lot more control. And I knew that I had to have more control in the different lights in different circumstances and such like that, and there was a deal. And I said, Okay, I have to go gotta get the deal. You know what, that's reason 32 for gas, which gear acquisition syndrome is a deal that you can pass up. But I had to take that I said, Okay, you know what, and you know, it's interesting people ask me, Why do I shoot canon, I still shoot canon. You know, a lot of people they start off on one type of camera and they stick with their camera unless they move to Sony, most people would have moved away from Canon Sony, Canon or Nikon over to Sony, unless you started the Pentax then you had no choice because you can't really get a Pentax gear now. I started on on canon, and I stopped and I had my 1000 D. And then I quickly kind of said, Okay, I want to get something better from this. So I moved to Canon 70 Because I had the lenses already, I said, Okay, I can interchange my lenses. I don't have to change everything else. My 70 D was a very interesting camera until it decided that it would go for a swim in the sea. And obviously it didn't work out very well for it. So I took the plunge at that point and said, Okay, it's time for me to move away from crop sensor. And I wanted to go to full frame. So I bought 60. And I still have my 60 and it's a phenomenally good camera. It's been my trusty workhorse for a number of years. But around two years ago, I then took the jump away from DSLR into mirrorless. And of course, because I had invested in a number of different lenses then over the years, I said Okay, keep all those lenses, but now I'm going to mirrorless Oh, hang on, there's an adapter so I can get an EF to an RF adapter. So now I went and I got the eusr and the USR has been a phenomenal camera. I don't think I'd ever move away from Canon. Now I've had some very lucky opportunities here to work with Canon and Ireland. So I've managed to have the eusr Six usr five, and I'm soon to be getting the USR three as well to give it a go but they're really just to get my hands on and get my feeling my thoughts for them but a DSLR is a phenomenal camera to have because gives you more control. And with the interchangeable lenses you've got even more control you know, so you got to point and shoot. Forget about it. You know I mean you you Okay, it's fine, you might take a shot, but you want to get a proper shot, you have to build all the shots, you have to build two exposures, and play around with the latest work for what you want rather than what it thinks it wants. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:11   Fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I'm a Canon shooter as well. And I love my Canon, you know, I have a five d mark for and it dropped down through like, three metres cliff down like 30 metres off a mountain, it's the work like, I didn't do anything, literally, the lands can unclip and have an error and clip the clip back on and it was working again. So yeah, it's one hell of a camera. What I mean, like, you know, I love hearing your story about you know, how you get into photography, you know, some of the biggest failures that you've gone through, especially during your honeymoon, which would have been a really nice memory to have. What would you say to what would you say are some of the most important things to learn, if people wanted to get into photography, Darren J Spoonley  11:02   I suppose the biggest one from that is the main fundamental, understand the exposure triangle and understand the interdependencies of each of those. And once you understand that, then you can play around with your settings, and you actually can control the situation that you're in, I think I'd also give a bit of advice on that would be, don't get too hung up on gear, you know, you don't need to have the best camera to get the best shots. I mean, you know, don't be too fixated trying to also emulate somebody else, you know, take an image that you want to take, if it's bad, okay, it's bad, but you took it. And it's always going to have a bad image that you can look, six months down the line a year down the line, two years down the line, my God could have gotten our local bad have gotten or whatever it might be. But take the images, make mistakes, you know, there's no such thing as resign. That's the beauty of the digital world. I mean, you get the immediate gratification by looking in the back of the camera if it's right or wrong. Whereas when I started out in the film days, I thought, Okay, I've got a great shot, and I need to send it off to developers Wait, whatever length of time it took to get it back to cost, and then open up the package and see that there's 10 of those images that are pure white. So yeah, I mean, don't be afraid to make mistakes. But more importantly, I think don't get too hung up on gear. You know, even even though standard, you know, if you look at why everybody has in their pocket, a phone, now, okay, it's not them controlling the image. But even with the newer phones, you can you can get into all the settings and you can do all that yourself. But you got a great camera in your pocket at all times, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to pop that out and take a record shot or whatever it might be. But you don't need to spend 1000s of euros dollars, whatever it might be the currency that you're spending to be able to get a great shot. I mean, you look you look at some of the grades, even look at Ansel Adams, the technology that you have in your pocket right now is 100 times better than what he ever had. And he had to lug it around with him. He didn't have technology, you know, so he had a wooden frame camera that he set up and bang, he got an image. So yeah, it's not all about gear. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:53   Fantastic advice there. And I love I love that you mentioned that, you know, that even the camera that you have on your pocket are often good enough. It kind of depends on what you know the purpose that you want it for, right? I know that you know, a love like the Canon M 50. You know, when people ask me what camera they should buy, and they don't have a camera and it's gonna be their first cameras like man get the M 50 The Mach one because they are so cheap because nowadays the mach two right, fantastic camera. I thought a few students you know, to use that to take photo of the Milky Way and just with the tripod tracker and it come out pretty good. So I'm glad that you mentioned that because I know that a lot of people get so who gets started with photography kind of you know, it, it it stopped them to get started because of that mindset that you need this expensive camera. So that is a really good advice. So just from what you say that with your seven D what happened there they went for a swim. Darren J Spoonley  14:03   Well, yeah, I mean, it was my own stupidity. But you know, it's generally the case I I'm, I'm an outdoor photographer, right so I'm outdoors all the time and my biggest passion for seascape photography and I was at a location early in the morning to friends of mine. And I of course I wanted to get down low I wanted to get a nice perspective. You know, I was doing a nice long exposure shot there was a lighthouse in the distance the sun was rising. And the other two guys kept calling me and I was thinking okay, look, leave me alone for a second I'm just getting my camera set up leave me alone for a second they kept calling me. I was thinking okay, maybe something is wrong. So I was crouched down, low down camera. Tripod wasn't even extended it was that lawns to water and stood up and as I stood up a tip the front of me camera and it went from here straight in to the waters that didn't have a big just just toppled over but toppled over lens first into the sea and I had some filters that were on the front of it. They took a crack off a rock. I immediately took the camera straight out, you know, took off the lens took out the battery took out the SD card. But it was it was ghost saltwater whatsoever it will get into the camera. It's gone. So yeah, it was, it was a few explosives. Let's just say that were given out that morning when I finally said to the guys, what do you want? They went? Oh, we were just wondering where you were we talked you disappeared as you knew exactly where I was. So yeah, I that was a bite by the way. That was the start of a two day photography trip as well. So I was cameraless at the start of a two day photography trip. So what I actually did was there was a deal. And I said, Okay, look, you know, I rang a local camera store. I told him my predicament. And in fairness, they said, Look, we have this camera here, it's on offer, but you'll also get cash back in relation to it. So I said, Alright, so I was lucky, I was fortunate position that I could change the camera on the flight. But so I started the morning with a seven TD, and I finished the day with a 60. And it was it was a game changer to be honest with you kind of moving away from crop to full frame because I was able to capture a lot better detail a lot more within the scene as well. So yeah, that was the unfortunate incident of the death of my Canon 70 D, which was a great camera. But yeah, I'm glad I did make the chain full frame because if that didn't happen, probably would have skipped in it and had 70 D and then never had the opportunity because when I look back, even the images that I like we said a moment ago, you look back six months, two years, whatever it might be. When I look back at the the the integrity of the images and the quality and the pixels and the pixelization that I saw no under 70 D versus when I got confused for him. It was night and day. So he kind of elevated my photography fault from my own stupidity, let's just say so I kind of gave up to my two friends, but I should thank them really at the end of the day, because they're the ones that killed my seven DD and made me make that jump to full frame. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:45   Ah, that's, that's a very unfortunate thing that happened. But I guess you know, when you think about it, it's it's a good leap of faith. Because it really pushed you to get into 60 from there and you absolutely love it. So, yeah, that's the me. Darren J Spoonley  17:03   Well, yeah, in a way, it's to me it is destiny, you know, and I do think as well, like, you know, when I was shooting it myself and TT I kind of was a small bit in the comfort zone because I knew it inside out. Now, the cannon ecosystem was great, you know, I can pick up any Canon camera, and I can use that. So that was another thing that I really enjoyed about you sticking with Canon, because if I get any camera from Canon tomorrow, I know that I can pick it up. And I can use it almost instantaneously. So that was the ecosystem that we had created. I liked the menu system. I liked the cameras. Yeah, it was great. And I suppose the other side with 10 is that that now then gave me the impetus to start changing lenses. So I had to then go invest in my glass, you know, so, you know, I, the camera, body only I didn't need to buy any kit lenses or anything like that, even though the 60 at the time came with a 24 to 1054 L lens. I already had one. So I didn't need that, you know, so it helped me too, because I was able to save money just by buying body only. So yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:58   Yeah. So, you know, one of the biggest thing that I came across, especially for people in photography is this notion of imposter syndrome, right? Where people are, especially with this day and age of social media, we come across this all the time. And it's often lead into Unreal expectation where, you know, people are looking at other photographers that have a larger following and thought that, you know, that can happen overnight. And they have that in their head that it's Oh, yeah, if I just jumped in there, you know, put, put a few good works, you know, I will have 1000s and 1000s of followers or whatnot. And when that's not the case, often it's it's more about the followers than about the photography itself. Have you ever come across a time where that was a problem when you come across that sort of challenge or feeling in your photography journey? And if so, how did you overcome it? Darren J Spoonley  19:03   I can't say that I personally had that challenge. But I know a number of people that have had that challenge. And I think the reason why I haven't is because I got into photography. Well before the social media, I didn't see social media as a catalogue photography as a catalyst for social media, it was the other way around. A guest that I had in my own podcast a number of years back sort of very, very important. And it still sticks to this day. And I've mentioned a number of times on my own podcast, and I mentioned it in yours as well. There was Michael O'Sullivan is the guy he's a very talented photographer from Ireland, and he said a statement which was don't shoot for the gallery. And it's really important shoot for your, you know, don't shoot for Instagram, don't shoot for social, don't shoot for the love of the likes or whatever it might be that you think you're going to get in the image because you're only going to be destined for disappointment. If you're happy with the image. That's all it matters. And if five people like it or 10 people like it, so be it. But if you're happy with the image that you've taken, then the reason And for taking that image, I think is the most important part. Now, that being said, social media is a phenomenal tool. You know, I think it's really, really powerful. I mean, a mutual friend of ours, Bernard guarantee, you know, he had said, why do people give out about Instagram sold on Facebook, it's free. And it is free. And it's a great way, it's a great way to build to build an audience and stuff like that. But it can be quite toxic, because people shoot for these likes, and they might see an image and go, Oh, that's a good image, look at that he's actually getting 500 likes or 1000 likes or whatever it might be. And they'll go off and they'll try and replicate that exact image. So they're not using their own left side of the brain, they're using your the copy side of the brain. And then when they take that image, they're frustrated, because they can't get the image to look like the image that they saw that this person posted. But this person that posted it, maybe they didn't just take that image, maybe they created that image, maybe they're very good at post processing, maybe they've got more creative brain develop, to see something within a scene, and transfer that into something on the screen that people can like and such like that. So that then can start creating and fueling, as you said, the imposter syndrome, because they're thinking, I'll never be as good as this other person. But an actual fact they shouldn't be aspiring to be as good as anybody else other than being better than who they were themselves yesterday. And if people can try and get that into their own mindset that this is not an overnight success thing. Photography is not an overnight success phenomenon, you put in the hard work, it's like people looking at athletes, and they see somebody who is a runner, or a football player, or whatever it may be. They've been doing that for a long time. They've made a lot of mistakes. They were absolutely diabolical at one point, but they got better, and they got better and they got better nope, their motivation might have been different, they wanted to probably be the person that they were trading with, or somebody that they knew to be better than them to get first place, whatever it might be, you can look at social media in that way and say, Okay, I want to be first at it, but it ain't going to happen overnight. And if you think that it's going to happen overnight, then you're putting yourself in a very bad position, I think from a psychological point of view, because you're now chasing something, which in reality will never be attainable. Because by the time you might get to that level, that person that you were chasing may already been gone off social media and realise that it was was a waste of their time, or have actually accelerated on even further and gotten better at taking photos and created something unique themselves. So replication, I think, is probably good kind of to get a bit better. People should find their own mark, they should find their own style, find their own bias for their own type of image. And it's not only by the way in just taking the image, the processing of the image as well. Very, very, very important. And everybody has their own unique way of processing an image. And I digress for a very quick moment, right, because around about six months ago, maybe eight months ago, actually, I was editing an image. And I can say I'm a seascape photographer, and I was editing my image and a thought came across my mind. And I said, Hang on, I'm got my own style of editing, all of my images, I edit all of my own images, I don't have an editor it edits my image, right. So like most people, you edit your own image. But it got me thinking, and it said, I wonder how somebody else that didn't take this image would actually edit the image. So I reached out to some other photographers that were on YouTube and such like that. And I asked them to edit my image. And I got five people looking back to me, and I had five completely different edits of the same raw file. And like Nick page was one of the people that had my image. And he's got a very, very moody style from his editing. And you could see that come true in how he would have edited the image. Mark Denny, and other landscape photographer, he added the image and I could see his style coming through and the image. So you have to create and develop your own style and be true to yourself. Don't think that you have to copy somebody else just to be able to get on that platform and get those likes, because that's chasing something, which is an endorphin release. And if you don't get those endorphin releases, then you're going to end up participant. And I think that's where the art is, you know, be yourself, do what you want to do for watching. And use social media find is an avenue to be able to share that, but don't get hooked, don't get hung up on you know, enough likes, because that's ultimately going to lead to disappointment and sadness. That answer your question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:09   Yeah, that's really good. You know, I'm glad that you shared that. I think, you know, a lot of people kind of look into social media as a success metrics, right? Well as in, I believe, like, I don't know, for you and I, you know, we got into photography, you know, not because of social media. So the success metric should be are you really proud of your photography? So, which, which, what'd you say earlier? So I think that is a really fantastic advice that you have there. You know, one of the thing that that's, that's really hard, is to stay true to that to that reason, right? I mean, when we start photography, we kind of have a reason why we want to do that. But you know, with the social media and all this stuff, we kind of get distracted and one of the guests that or my mentor as well, I suppose one of my earlier mentors say that, you know, whatever happened Don't forget why you got into photography in the first place. And that was such a great advice. So I was wondering, do you, I mean, I know that you kind of want to just, you know, capture moments. And you know, when you get when you first get started, you kind of want to capture moments and be able to capture this fantastic photos. But as you progress through your photography journey, do you have a different aspiration when you go out there? Like, why do you do photography now versus why you do photography back then? Darren J Spoonley  25:34   Very interesting. I started in photography, like I said, as my release from the real world, but what I've quickly found is that a lot of people can get emotional connections to images that I would take, and that if it started something within them, I think that's a job well done. But what I've also found, because I mean, I, I've been releasing a video on my YouTube channels every week since September 2017. So I'm nearly five years no doing that. And I've kind of found myself falling into the more of the educator role and to kind of, you know, telling a story and bringing people along on my journey. I'm not an expert in any way, shape, or form, but I'm learning as I go. And, as I'm showing people how I'm doing things and mistakes that I'm making, they're learning from it as well. And I'd like to think that, you know, I've kind of changed my outlook is that it's no longer just about me, it's about bringing people with me and showing them the beauty that I have around me here in Ireland, through the form of photographs, and also the form of video and the storytelling, I think that comes with that as well. It's something that will never end I don't think, you know, I will find different ways to be able to get better and aspire to do better and aspire to create a better video, create a better story, create a better image, explain the image more to somebody. I've had people that, you know, have reached out to me and asked me and said, Okay, why aren't you doing workshops? Why aren't you bringing people out, and it's not a motivator for me, if I can handle it, and they can tune into my videos every week, and they can learn something, if they want to come to Ireland, least they know a place that they can come and visit. And that's probably where I'll continue to go from, you know, one to one workshops with people. But it's not my my main motivator, my main motivator for me is just to continue enjoying the outdoors and continue to show through the form of film or images, but also getting people as if they're there, you know, to serve that emotional connection, bring people to different areas and help them like me to enjoy the art of photography, because bearing in mind centre, you know, this is what I suppose photography is a solitary sport, outdoor photography is a solitary sport. But you know, if you can get people involved in that, and you can feed off their passion, and they can feed off your energy. It's the people that you remember a lot longer than the miserable rain or the cold or whatever it might be. It's the people that you meet along the way that you share those adventures with that you share those sentiments, you share those feelings, and you share that connection that lasts a lot longer. So for me, it's all about like, the image is one form, yes. But it's the people that I meet along the way and the emotions that we can mutually store it in, which is the longevity? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:12   Yeah, that's fantastic. You know, I absolutely agree. You know, at the end of the day, photography is a way to capture experiences, right? So if we fail to experience that first, then what is photography really is right. So that is great advice. And, you know, like, I've seen your video, I've seen your photos, and I've seen how you go through, really, you know, especially in Ireland as well, I'm guessing there's a lot of rain and moody, you know, a really good condition. But you still go out there, right? You still go out there, you still take your photos. So what? How do you define a successful photography trip? And how do you define a successful photo? Like, you know, when when it's like, you know what, that was a good day, or you know what, that was a great shot or whatnot, you know, because I know that, you know, for many of us and myself included along the line, we always have that certain expectation, right? When we go out there, like, oh, yeah, the condition is gonna be this and that, and this and that, and I'm gonna get this shot and that shot and so forth. But it's not always it doesn't always turn out the way we want it to. So what is that success criteria for you? Darren J Spoonley  29:29   Okay, I'll answer that in two different ways for you. So the first one is, I've said this for many years, and I'll continue to say it again. bad conditions do not exist in landscape photography, there's always a shot to get, you may not be the shot that you'd wanted. But there's always a shot to get and I've gone out in the rain and I've come back with images and that's a success because you've managed to pull a shot from something like that. But the other thing is never go out with expectations. Because if you go out with expectations, all you're going to be coming home with is disappointment because it's never really going to unless you get that one in 100 chance where you get epic conditions epic life. It's a With nit, you could possibly be an example actually, is I'm not as good as the easiest way to describe it as you for argument's sake in relation to your Astro photography, right? Because we're cloud in Ireland for a lot of the time. But what I do try and plan something, I look at all of the forecasting apps and such like that, and the weather forecasters, and are today the easiest job in the world. All they have to say is it's cloudy chance of rain, okay? And they'll get away with it every single time. I mean, in fact, you're in the summertime here, the only difference is that the rain is warmer. I mean, that's it, right? So I'd have clear skies. And I'll say, Okay, I'm going to go and get some asteroids. And invariably, there will be some clouds. But you do get that odd time where it is going to be crystal clear. You look at the radars, you look at the long radars, you go, okay, there can't be any clouds, I'm going to go and I'm going to do that. So that's a success, in my mind is that if the weather is actually going to play ball, to get the type of shot that you've envisaged that you want to get an astro, you, you have no choice. If it's cloudy, you're not going to get what you wanted to get. I went through a period of time where it took me five months, actually every month to get the same shot. And no, I wanted to get a shot where I had a moon rising over an old derelict castle, and it was the turrets that are on top of the castle. And I had the whole thing planned that the moon would sit right on top of the dirt castle. And the first month I went out, no clouds anywhere except for right over where I wanted to take the photograph. So I couldn't see the moon same thing the second time. The third time, my timing was slightly off. So I ended up going there the day after what I should have gotten there the day before. Because the the shooting moons and on a subject, you have to get it right at the bang on time, we used to get the residual late from sunset when the moon is rising. I was a day late. So my subject was too dark. But the fifth time and you're basically I got it. And then I went Do you know what persistence. And if I stick with something, and I'm really you know, hell bent on getting it, you will get it eventually, it might take you five times by taking it 10 times. But don't give up. Because even when you go out, it may seem as if it's a failure, but it hasn't been learned. You've gotten better. You've actually gotten you've used your camera, every time you use the camera is a school day, you're learning something new every single time. So I don't really believe in having expectations, I have somewhere have an idea what I'd like to do, I might go to a scene and go okay, you know, how's the light going to be today? Is it going to shine on what I want to take a photograph of today? And if it doesn't, then I'm really gonna be disappointed. So I say no, I just take it because I'm happy to be out. It's good to be out, I don't get the opportunity to go out. As often as I'd like to vote. You know, like most people, you might look out the window and go, Oh, look at that light. I wish I could go taking a camera. And that's happened to me many, many times. But today that I can get out, I'm really at the mercy of the weather. So I try and go to a location that I think is going to suit the conditions that I have. And if it works, it works. And if it doesn't work, didn't work. It was still a good day, and I still got a shot guaranteed. I've never come back from a shoot without at least one shot that I'd say you know what? I'm happy with that. So yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:53   What a fantastic advice. And I was just cracking out and you'd say the weather forecast was the easiest job. That is hilarious. Yeah, and it's incredible. That is that is very inspiring. I love to hear, you know, I'd love hearing that, that, you know, you you, you kind of just appreciate, you know, what, whatever you get in terms of the condition in terms of whatever it is, and, you know, like there's it what do you say was very interesting about, you know, me doing a lot of astrophotography. And it relies a lot on a clean, you know, clean and clear sky. And you're right, like, you know, when when I look for a milky when there is there are clouds, it's kind of the end. But it doesn't mean that you can't take great photos still. And I have a few different shots that I got because I didn't have a clear sky and it becomes one of my favourite shot and it becomes, you know, one of my most popular shot as well, to my surprise, actually. Right. So that is such a great advice in landscape photography, there are no such thing such as a bad condition. Darren J Spoonley  34:05   You'll always get a shot. It may not be the shot that you wanted to get. But you'll always get a shot. You know, I guess give me a slight anecdote, actually, to that is only only today, actually. So we're recording this on Sunday, the third of April. So I had a video went out today with a good friend of mine actually who I've met through social media. He's a photographer in Australia, and he came up with an idea he said, Darren, I've got an idea. We're in the spring equinox we're almost 12 hours apart. He says you go shoot sunset, and I'll go shoot sunrise and we'll share the sun and when it dips down below the horizon for you. It could just be coming up the horizon from sunset brilliant idea. I went to the most westerly point in art but almost the most western in Ireland and I went to photograph two very very iconic islands so called the Scalix. Me if you're a fan of staff, you know that this is where Luke Skywalker was found after he disappeared he was found the last Jedi. These are the islands that they use to for this beautiful islands region. Going out on the west most western point, but almost most western point, clear skies. So I said, Okay, now this is going to be ideal. But you know what, again, I'll use this to my advantage because the idea is clear skies I'm passing this on over to Izzy. So as the as the photographer in Australia, so I don't see the sun going below the horizon and I'll get the light shining in golden light lighting up the right hand side of the the islands. So off I went, it was a three hour drive went in earnest looked clear skies, all the forecasting everything else. And when I got there, there was a very, very heavy sea fog or haze. And I said, Okay, damn, I'm not going to be able to get the image that I want you to get. I could barely see these islands. And I brought my sigma 150 to 600. So I really wanted to zoom in on these islands. But I could barely see these islands because of the amount of haze that was there. But guess what, it always works out because as the sun dipped into that haze, the golden light spread across the haze, it didn't give me the light on the site, but it lit up the whole scene in this golden light. And it was just something I went through you got there. Perfect example, I have everything planned. This is what I wanted to do. It's part of a collaboration with somebody else on the other side of the world. And yet, the conditions in playball Gallery, they did play but I managed to get some really, really beautiful shots and really, really great life. But more Moreover, I ended up deciding to do a zoom in photo of the moon, as it was setting went on into the haze. And I looked at the screen I went, she said must have a sensor spot. Because I saw this big black.in the middle of the sun. I was thinking okay, Damn, how are we going to get rid of that? I can't do that. No, because I was recording video. And it turns out afterwards that I didn't even know this was after happening. But there was a gigantic sunspot after appearing on the sun on that day. And I captured that there it was in the middle of the sun. So again, you know, there's always a benefit it regardless, you're always going to come away with something. And there were two examples of such thing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:51   Wow, that that sounds like it's a wild shot. Do you have that photo posted somewhere so that people can can see those photo? On my on my, the link on the description? If you do? Darren J Spoonley  37:02   Yeah, well, I'll give you the link anyway, to my social channels. So I've got one link which has everything within that so to bring to my YouTube or even to Instagram to bring to the podcast as well. But on Instagram, actually over last week, I posted an image of the sun. So you're able to see that image, it's there. And then today I posted the image of the two islands, the Skeggs they did in that beautiful orange light with one solitary bird has about a flying right bang smack in the middle of both of them as well. So it all turned out really really nice. Yeah, so yeah, I'll give you the links anyway, I suppose you can share it also. But yeah, that's just a typical, the most recent example of how photography can be so frustrating, but so rewarding. At the same time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:41   Perfect, perfect. Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, that's exactly. That's a good example about, you know, like, sometimes you don't get what you want, but you get more than what you ask for. Right? So I wouldn't be I wouldn't be doing my happy then. So if I were you, like, yes, satisfied. That's amazing. So man, like I was just listening to you and sharing your story and who you know what you do with your photography, and how you not only share your photography in socials, but also create, you know, podcasts as well as YouTube to help you know, and share this message to other photographers and share your experiences and learning points. But at the same time, you got a business to run you got, you know, a family with two kids. How do you balance all that together? Like, you know, how do you juggle all that because I know as you know, the careers myself, I know how much time it takes and how much investment it is to, you know, do all those separate thing and put them together and actually, you know, create and put put it out there. So how do you balance that? Because I know we it's gonna be a lot of people out there who are doing this, you know, as a side hobby. And just wondering, you know, what, how did they get this time? Do you have like 50 hours in a day? Darren J Spoonley  39:10   magic formula? Yeah, first and foremost, I suppose from the timeout, I do that in my own personal time outside of very busy workweek as it is. So number one, I've got a very supportive wife that allows me to be able to go and do that she knows that. Like I say it's from view it's very, very important for me. And if I get that released, then I'm happier person overall, let's just say the other thing is I book in days and I stick to those days. So like I said earlier on, I'm at the mercy of the weather. So if I say okay, next Saturday week, I'm going for sunrise. So I know that okay, I'm going to go to bed early on the Friday night. I'm going to be up early on Sunday morning. And I thought it's Saturday morning and I'm going to be gone but I'd be home at around lunchtime and such like that. i It's interesting. You'd say it there you know about you know with YouTube and stuff. Funny story. The reason I created my youtube channel was not for notoriety or not for anything other than I wanted to share and leave a legacy for my kids so that when I'm dead and gone, they have something they can watch. And they can realise this is why daddy wasn't there for breakfast, or this is why daddy wasn't there for dinner in the evening. This is where he was. And if I can inspire them and leave something that when I'm gone to people cannot, they can watch and share with their friends, or that's my dad, or whatever it might be, you know, that is a reward for me in itself, because an image is fantastic. But the story behind the image, I think, for me, it's something that I'd like to be able to kind of share more of. So there's no magic formula. It's just purely being lucky to be able to have that time and just to get out and do it. But I do think it really doesn't feel like it's work, it doesn't feel like it's, it's my hobby side of things. I'm not earning money from it. If I was earning money from it, then I know that my mind would have to change, and probably change as well, because I probably feel more pressure to have to do that, you know. But that being said, like I said, I mean, I've released a video every week since September 2017. I haven't missed a week yet. I started the podcast in 2018. And myself and Dermot, a very good friend of mine, when he was involved in a podcast, we released a podcast every week for two years. And then he retired. So I said, Okay, I'll keep going myself. And I didn't release a podcast every two weeks for the last two years myself. So for me again, you know, it's something that I enjoy, I enjoy talking about I enjoy creating, I enjoy helping people. And I enjoy kind of everything all encompassing within it, you know? So it's, it's interesting that people look at it and go, Geez, how do you get that done and how to put it into passion. You know, if you find it, there's a phrase in life, which to find a job you love. You never have to work another day in your life. This isn't a job for me, but it's something that I love. And it's something that I need. I do have a suppose a firm belief in relation to how we think, and who is dictates who we are. And, you know, if I'm out and about, like I said to the outset, you know, if I've got a challenge from a work point of view, if I'm thinking about that challenge all the time, then I'm focused on that challenge. Whereas when I'm taking a camera, I'm not thinking about anything else other than what's in front of me the scene that's in front of me, and then the solution will appear on its own it does. So it's, it's challenged, but it's not a big challenge in this bigger scheme of things, because I'm so passionate about it. That's photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:29   Wow. That is, man, I was just so inspired listening to that, you know, I think it's, it goes back to that the why, right. And you have such a strong reason on creating these videos that it makes it so enjoyable for you. And, you know, like, I guess one thing that we take for granted is the journey to get the shot or have the adventure or you know, of the travel of the trip, even if it's you know, around the corner or an hour away, or you know, a day or two days away. But I love what you share that because you really show that the journey really makes a big difference. And that's what life is right. It's a journey. So I just, I just I love that there was this amazing. That's very inspiring. So thank you very much for sharing that. You're very welcome. Yeah, look, there. It's been a really good conversation. And you know, it's kind of coming to our one hour mark here. And it was so yeah, it's, it's, I guess what it's saying what you say, right? When you're having fun, like, you know, I don't work at all, it just is a man just listening to your stories and your wisdom. I absolutely love it. And you know, one of the reason why I want you to I want to get you here was, you know, just your whole outlook on life and how positive you are about it. And you know how you can turn the negative to positive because I remember when we were in clubhouse, I think you had like one of our really harsh conditions, but you're just fired up, you're like, Yeah, I get to go out and you know, I was like, oh, like, he was like rain down and all this stuff. And I could just imagine how moody and cloudy but you're just all fired up. So I'm glad to have you here and you know, be able to share your message. You know, your your, your wisdom. But one thing that I always ask people who come to the podcast is that if there is one advice I know you have given a lot of advice, but if there is one thing that you feel like one of the most important advice that you know if if they didn't hear anything out of this podcast is one advice would be the most important thing. What would that advice be? Darren J Spoonley  44:38   Get out of that auto and get into manual and play. Make mistakes. Every single time you make a mistake, you learn from it. And if you don't learn from it, repeat it and you'll learn again and you'll learn again and eventually you'll understand how you've managed to get a shot. Get out of the bottle, get into manual. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:56   Fantastic. I think that that one we're Have play is really important because that's, that's the thing that makes us enjoy photography, right? Well, then it's been, you know, a full one hour and it's just full of wisdom and had a lot of fun talking to you. And I feel like you know, I need to go to Ireland and go shoot with you. And I have a lot of fun chatting with you, because this has been amazing. And now for those people who want to learn more about you and find your work as well as your your journey or your backstory in YouTube. Where can they find you? Darren J Spoonley  45:32   I'm very lucky because my name. So if you search Darren JSON only on any search platform whatsoever, you will only find me so I don't have to spell out any Instagram is blah, blah, blah, just search Derringers only and you will find me and you will see exactly what my photography is about. And I'd love for people to continue on the journey with me. So yeah, just type in my name. Hit the enter button, smash that subscribe button. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:59   I love it speaking like a YouTuber. Yeah, thanks a lot for sharing that. And, you know, we'll put all of that link on the description anyway. So you know, you could just go ahead and click away. But we can do this. Hopefully you have a really good time listening to that it was such an engaging and interesting conversation we had with Darren and yeah, I'm glad that you guys stick around to listen to this podcast, this conversation and hopefully we'll see you again next week. And if you haven't hit the subscribe button yet, what are you waiting for? Hit that subscribe button and smash it like Darren say, and I'll see you guys next week.  

Sarah Lyndsay is a Self-Portrait & Landscape Photographer based in the beautiful Canadian Rockies. She specialises in ethereal self-portrait work, putting herself in the landscapes she photographs no matter the season or weather. Rain or shine, she will walk out in that lake in a flowing gown. She is widely known for her breathtaking long exposure work and her signature yellow dress.    Link to images mentioned on the podcast - https://www.sarahlyndsayphotography.com/Portfolio-/Self-portraits/   If you want to learn more about Sarah's work, you can find it here:   • Website - www.sarahlyndsayphotography.com • Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73iAchNebceqyF3I0qskiA • Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sarahlyndsayphotography/ • Twitter - https://twitter.com/sarahlyndsay_ • NFTs - https://opensea.io/sarahlyndsay   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------------- Transcription: Sarah Lyndsay  0:00   So when you hit that rock bottom moment, I think you, it doesn't matter if it's with your career or your relationships or whatever, you're at rock bottom, and you're at this place where you just feel like you have no one, you're completely alone. And you're just faced with yourself, like you're faced with all those inner demons that you have. And we all have them. And I feel like this is the defining moment of where people either blossom into this amazing person or they go down even further and they go down the wrong path. And I think when you're when you're at the rock bottom, you have to make like a choice there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:40   Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we talk to other photographers and share their journey and how photography have given them hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have somebody from the Canadian Rockies, someone who's really good at taking self portrait. Sarah, how are you doing, sir? Sarah Lyndsay  1:00   I'm good. How are you? Thank you for having me come and do this. I'm really excited to be here. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:06   Very excited to have you. And I've been following your work, you know, ever since I got into the NFT world, and it's it's incredible that you know, your your, your art is just great. And I love the commitment that you put in to get those self portraits. Yeah, I'm so glad to have you here. Now, before we get started, can you give us a short introduction of who Sarah is? Sarah Lyndsay  1:29   Okay, yes, I can do that. So in this current moment, this year, we will say, I am a self portrait and landscape photographer. I've been a photographer for 12 years. But the self portrait part has definitely just been in the last few years. And I do pretty much photography, or at least I have done it. All right now what I'm doing for work is I do photo tours and FTS YouTube, that's a big one as well. And just focusing on those with my photography and just trying to grow it and working at it every single day. And that's pretty much me in a nutshell. And how Wait, how could I forget this? You may see me around in a yellow dress. Yes, pretty important part. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:13   You call yourself the bananas? It's It's hilarious. It's great. Sarah Lyndsay  2:19   That started in the NFT space. That's where that came from. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:23   So how did that come about? What's why the bananas? I'm not Sarah Lyndsay  2:27   sure I just everybody was talking about you. I think you know like what the apes the board apes because the banana was a thing with them as well. And I just saw everybody talking about a banana. And I was like, Well, I can I am a banana on all the time. And then it just took off from there. So now everyone pretty much refers to me as the banana. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:46   That's hilarious. Yeah, it's really funny when it when they come out. And it's just so funny. And so what, what makes you what makes you love photography? Why are you doing? You've been doing this for 12 years, you say, right, yes. And you're still here. And you know, you've done a lot of different stuff. And I know you know, like doing YouTube and you know, getting all this thing happening is not easy. So what makes you what makes you fall in love with photography and what makes you stay as a photographer? Sarah Lyndsay  3:17   That's a good question. Okay, so Paul, I have like it's the same answer to both of those questions why I love it is that I was just actually out shooting the other evening and it was a really great reminder of why I love it. Just when I was done shooting the feeling that I had of just creating something was so good. And like I noticed when I was shooting and I was so you know invested in my camera and the process of creating the image I was thinking about nothing but that moment and creating and that's why I love it and that's why I keep doing it because it's a when you're doing it you're out there in the field creating things you're in a mindful space that no problems can enter no people can enter it's just the camera and you and you're focused on something that is that that's why that's why I love it that's why I'm gonna continue doing it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:07   It's as simple as that a like yes what did they call it the whole meditation of being a photographer being there with the nature so do you get this feeling when you like do a different type of photography as well because you say like you have done few different genres as well. Does does that give you the same feeling or is is the the landscape and self portrait are the one that gives you the most and that's why you're doing it Sarah Lyndsay  4:31   that's a tough question to answer I'm because okay, I've have photographed everything like I have worked in all of the genres. I think just creating no matter what gives me that feeling like it honestly doesn't matter if it's a landscape or if I was shooting weddings, well wedding is a lot more work so but when I'm creating images for them, I'm pretty excited about it. I think it can can be anything and I'll feel pretty happy creating it but I just gravitate towards like landscape with the self portraits because that feels like that's my heart. You And a best represents, like who I am and what I want to build. But yeah, I could probably be shooting anything and have a good time. It's just the creation, like the whole process of creating something is what keeps me there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:12   That's awesome. That's fantastic. Yeah, I think, I don't know many people that can say the same thing, you know, enjoying the whole genre, but it's good that you're enjoying the whole thing. And I, you know, I, myself have tried a whole bunch of different things. And I don't think I could say I enjoy everything. So that's good on you. Sarah Lyndsay  5:32   Whatever I'm photographing, like I used, I do it in my style. So like, just thinking back, I used to photograph family shoots. And I remember just I loved like, I mean, there's the whole point of customer service. That's not always the fun part. But like, even just bringing back their images to edit and creating something really special. I just loved it. I loved being absorbed in that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:53   That's awesome. And so do you have like, a certain moment that you can pinpoint that makes you like that, that reminds you of how you started photography in the first place? Like, what was that one moment that make you pick up a camera? Like, for me, the first thing that made me follow my passion was when I went to Europe. And you know, it was a five weeks trip. And you know, it was a great trip. But I was so disappointed when I came back, you know, with my photos. So do you have a moment like that, that makes you say, You know what, this thing is awesome. And I want to do more of Sarah Lyndsay  6:29   it. Yes. So this goes back to when I started photography, like when it all began the whole journey. It's kind of funny because it's backwards. Like I didn't pick up a camera first. I actually found Photoshop first, which not many people do. I know. Oh, so I was on a this was such a long time ago, I think I was 22 or 23. And I was on a date. And I remember we were just sitting on his couch. We were having some drinks, just hanging out listening to music. And he brought out a quote, he brought up Photoshop. So he was a photographer. But just like a hobbyist photographer, not he didn't do it professionally, but he liked to make album covers so he would go and photograph like Barnes and I don't know just anything and then he would come into Photoshop and you know, layer it and put textures on. And I just loved watching this process of him creating something so I asked him I was like, Oh, could you help me get this programme from my computer? So I got Photoshop, I didn't have a plan to be a photographer. I just wanted to play around like I'm a little bit computer nerdy. So yeah, I got Photoshop. And then I was like, Well, what am I going to do from here? I need to, I need something to work on. So I found my parents like old vacation point and shoot in the cupboard. And I was like, okay, and I just went outside and I started taking photos of things like everything, even jewellery, I would photographic jewellery. I love to like, I love playing around with depth of field, I first picked up the camera Anyways, that was Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:52   on f 2.8. I would Sarah Lyndsay  7:56   I can't remember what the point and shoot like what it would go down to or what Yeah, I don't know. But I just I just remembered I picked up the camera. And again, it was that feeling of I'm creating something, because I think like my backstory, and I was coming out with something that was quite, I guess traumatic in a way. And then when you latch on to something, when you're feeling so alone, it's like, the camera gave me purpose again. And I will forever like I am forever grateful for that moment, because it breathes like life back into me and then put me on this path that and now I'm here. Like, it's amazing. The whole journey is really, really incredible. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:35   That's incredible. And, you know, I think, you know, not only me, but a lot of other photographer are the same thing, right? Photography have kind of something that, you know, for the public, like, basically help them to give them a new purpose, a new direction in life. And it looks like I get you know, we see the same thing and you and what was what was that like, like, you know, like, you know, from your, you know, the experience that you said it was difficult, and then you know, moving through and then being where you are today. I know that like, you know, the transition, especially it's never easy. So would you be able to share a little bit about that and maybe, perhaps give some inspiration to our listeners? Sarah Lyndsay  9:17   Yeah, so I mean, I come from because this is pretty, like a pretty big part of my story. And I do share it quite a bit. So I come from, like a family of abuse there was it just wasn't a childhood to grow up in and like I'm in I'm in a lot of therapy now, which is amazing. It really, really helps me. But I what I've learned is that, you know, if you're not coming from a stable home, you don't really know what to do you you don't know what path to go on. It really really messes with you. And I guess I just didn't I didn't ever know who I was and I was so like, I was into relationships way too early on in life, you know, way too invested with men and it just wasn't good. So I didn't I didn't Know Who Sarah was. So when that moment when I picked up like the camera and I just kept doing it, honestly, it was like, it was just this moment of okay, this is me, this is who I am. This is Sarah and then it like the camera alongside of my own growth, like it plays a really big part in who I am today. It's it's wild to see that and because of the because of my past, I just, I don't know, I feel like I latched on to photography, because it was finally something that was mine. No one else is not my parents, not my not a boyfriend. It was just me and the camera. And yeah, it's an amazing feeling. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:39   That is such a inspiring story. You know, like, I think it a lot of people don't know where you know who they are, and where to go. And you know, you're coming from a past that's quite difficult like yours. It's just incredible that how you're able to turn that around. So, you know, made massive congratulations to you. And you know, massive kudos to you for making that happen. That is very inspiring. So if I were to just, you know, hypothetically, if you can no longer touch a camera, how would life be? Sarah Lyndsay  11:14   Oh, man, obviously, that could become a reality for anybody. Really? I mean, I'd accept it, it would definitely suck. But I would I would have to obviously change career paths, which I probably don't what I would already want to do. It would really suck. I just, I feel like I could handle it for a little bit. But I feel like I would start really missing it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:35   That's yeah, it's fun. You're on? Yeah, how the camera something that is so simple that basically capture lights and shapes can can really change your life and can really give us new identity. Newhall? Yes. Yeah. So I am so glad that you share that. You know, I think that, that that is someone that, you know, that is something that people kind of maybe aware, but not exactly latch on to. So one of the things that I find most people, most people kind of never follow through with photography, right? Is because they kind of buy a camera, they start taking a photo with their phone, he's like, this is awesome. And then they're like, they buy a camera. And and after a while, it's like, you know what, this is too hard. It's not working out, you know, I can't I'm not good enough. I can take photos like all these great people do. And looks like you have pushed through that, that, that time or stage and get to where you are right now, which is you know, incredible. You know, 12 years of being a photographer is just absolutely incredible. And there's so much commitment to it. So what are Do you ever go through some struggles? While you you know, like, while you're learning and you know, carving your path into this photography world? And how, how do you keep track of it like, so how do you stay on track and keep going to where you are today? Sarah Lyndsay  13:02   Yes, I definitely go through struggles, I go through struggles with how much obviously things change like it. It's kind of like you learn you learn social media, you learn how to operate the camera, you learn how to create art, you learn all these things, and then you're kind of like, okay, yeah, I'm set. I'm good. Now you, you just want to keep doing that. But it just seems like that. There's always something new, there's always a new thing to learn. And I find that that I really struggle with that because I since I've been a photographer for 12 years, you can get really stuck in your ways that you shoot, like I, I still shoot the same way that I did say, five, six years ago. So I often feel like I'm behind the times. And actually a lot with editing, I feel like I'm behind the times because I like to stay with the way that I do it. But I think that can be bad. If you don't evolve, I really, really do. So I struggle with that. Just like I want to stay on my one path of how I know how to do things. Yet I know it's important to keep learning and evolving and change with the times and new cameras coming out. That's what I struggle with. And I do I just I mean, you have to look at it almost like work, right? Well, it is work for me. But you, you, you got to show up even when it's not fun even when you don't want to learn those things. And then I think honestly, I think that's where a lot of photographers start to fall off the waggon of like turning it into a career because they don't understand it's a lot of hard work to do this and not just one time hard work every day hard work and constantly learning. That's my struggle, but I just know mentally, like you just have to show up and you have to push yourself to learn and keep evolving. You really really do. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:37   That is such a great advice you know, I think it's it's funny that a lot of the things that kind of happen in whether in our head or you know, it's usually doesn't it's not going to happen in real life right and it looks like you have guarded your mind and your mindset really well and just push through with whatever you know. You no doubt struggle was with a change of platform change of technology and everything. My question is, how do you do that? Like, what do you do? You know, because because the mind is very powerful, right? When you believe you can, and you can, and when you believe you cannot, then you cannot, it's as simple as that. But what do you do to guard that, to have that positive outlook to keep pushing through even the hardest time to you know, all these changes and so forth? Sarah Lyndsay  15:29   So well? Since this is a tough question to answer, because I do photography as a career, so I know that and like, I know, a lot of hobbyists, you know, listen in on a lot of these things, and, and people that do it as a career, so I'm doing this for a living. And it's not just like, it's not just my passion. So I think this is important. So I did started as a hobby, I did not, I did not jump into photography as a career until like, probably eight years in. So for a long, long, it was simply because I lacked calm, I obviously lacked confidence, and just the knowledge of how to run a business. Those are the two main things that hold people back. So eventually, it got to the point because I was just working as a server, well, I was hobbyist photographer. And you know, I, as I get older, you know, you got to the point where it's like, okay, I need to do something with career wise with my life. So it's either I turn this photography obsession into a career, or I go off and go to school, and I actually have this crossroads, I almost went almost quit photography, and almost became a police officer. And it was because I was doubting that, like photography would pay the bills, basically. So I know many people end up in this position. So I mean, you know, at that time, when I was at that crossroads, I was making some income from photography, but it wasn't like I, you know, wouldn't sustain me for the year. So I just kept plugging away at it. And obviously, I noticed, like, I didn't go off and do these other jobs, you know, I kept going out and taking photos, and it was around 2017 2018 2019. Slowly, the business just kept, like evolving for me by word of mouth, because obviously, I got better. So it started to look like okay, I could really do this. But I can, I was so afraid to honestly take that plunge. And this is the important part of the story. Because I really was afraid I needed like a major catalyst in my life to push me to go full time into photography. So COVID was obviously one of those things, even though COVID took away all the work in the first place. It's kind of weird, it took everything away, but pushed me to go at it full time, if that makes sense. Because it it just took away everything. And I also went through a divorce at the same time. So I had these, these two major things happen in my life. And if you like those things change you. And I do a lot of like, why I wasn't doing photography as a career, and actually why I got divorce was was because of me. So I had to become very self aware. And I did that and I became like mentally strong with a different mindset by I put myself in therapy, and I knew I just needed to learn and keep learning and learning and learning and learning. That's how I changed my mindset. Honestly, if it wasn't for those two major moments in my life, I probably wouldn't have like this strong of a mindset because it all changed the way I see photography. And I, I now am at this point where like anybody is capable of doing this. Anybody is but like you have to understand what is involved to do it. And like, you really got to humble yourself to eat. If you take pretty pictures, that simply is just not enough. And your mind needs to understand that. And if you can get to that point, and you are patient, you can you can do anything. Honestly, anything with photography. There's my answer. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:50   Inspiring. Yeah, that's that's crazy, right? Like, sometimes we need that push right in life, to to put us at rock bottom so that we can Yeah, we have a good foundation to blast off. That's that's what I usually say. Right? And so how did you I mean, you kind of, you know, scraped through that whole experience. But what is it? That makes a big difference when you turn that around? Because, you know, when when people go through that kind of thing? I think most people would get discouraged instead of encourage. Sarah Lyndsay  19:20   Wait, you have to ask that again because it froze. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:23   Ah, sorry. So when when people go through that kind of experience when it's going through a difficult experience, many people would get discouraged, not encouraged, right. But you turn this really tough time into something that you can strive in your life and actually doing something that you are passionate about that you love, you know as as your main way of living as your lifestyle. So how does that mindset shift change and what is it that makes a big difference? What is it that make you encourage instead of discourage? Sarah Lyndsay  19:58   I love this question. Okay, so when you hit that rock bottom moment, I think you, it doesn't matter if it's with your career or your relationships or whatever, you're at rock bottom, and you're at this place where you just feel like you have no one, you're completely alone. And you're just faced with yourself, like you're faced with all those inner demons that you have. And we all have them. And I feel like this is the defining moment of where people either blossom into this amazing person, or they go down even further, and they go down the wrong path. And I think when you're, when you're at the rock bottom, you have to make, like a choice there. So how I saw it was it was like, okay, my career wasn't really taking off, I'll be like, my marriage failed, everything just seemed like it was failing. And I'm a big believer in being self aware, and that we actually create a lot of our own homes no matter what it is. So I just thought to myself, I was like, All right, I can keep doing what I was doing before. Because that clearly drove me to the bottom like it did, all of the steps that I was doing did not help me at all. Or I could take a step back, and try to properly learn how to do this and do the right steps and start listening to people who know a lot more than I do. And really, really, like, follow those proper mentors and those healthy people. And that's what I decided to do, because I felt like I had no choice. It was either it's gonna get worse, or you can turn this around and start doing things differently. And it'll get better, and it got better. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:27   That is great. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the biggest thing that I got from Loyola, your answer is they're like, if you, regardless where you are in your your life, or your struggle, you never really lose that belief in yourself, you know, you decided to go back and build, you know, build, build it over again, start over again. And that's, that's amazing. You know, I'm, I'm so inspired just by listening to this. Sarah Lyndsay  21:52   We're all capable. Totally in the mind, and it but like, the thing is, is it took these really hard moments to get there's eight like, flips a switch almost. So I'm grateful, not well, not grateful for the bad things, but I wouldn't be who I am without them. Surely, yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:11   Yeah. For now, for sure. You know, the hard times is the things that define who we are today. Right? So that's yeah, that is such a great answer. So thanks for sharing that. And what, so for people out there, you say that like, anyone want to pursue this full time, or you know, want to pursue this passion and make it your lifestyle, you can do it. But you also mentioned that, you just need to make sure that you have you understand that it's not a path to heaven, or so they're like, there, it's not gonna be as smooth sailing. So it goes through your experience as a professional photographer, and some of the things that some of the challenges that you came across, and how can people learn from this journey so that if they do decide to pursue their passion full time, they it kind of, you know, it makes things easier for them? What, what would that be that you would share to these people? Sarah Lyndsay  23:11   Well, I think I'll start off with like, the struggles. So we're talking we're debt, we're talking about it like as a professional career at this at this point, right. Okay. So the struggles are, okay, you definitely have to recognise the struggles first, because it helps it helps understand, Okay, well, this is hard. Why is it hard? So it's not really the being a professional photographer. It's not like, you don't really go to school for this, you don't, there's not really like a road map laid out. And a lot of other photographers are very, very private, and you can hire mentors, you can do mentoring sessions. But there's not really like this laid out step by step plan for photographers, and most people will always kind of drill it in your mind. Career, like a lot of people look at it, and it's like, oh, okay, that's not, you know, photography is I have a fancy camera, I can just do it, right. Like, there's this, this whole stigma around it, that it's very challenging to do as a career, which it is not gonna lie, but I think the reason why it's so challenging is because you are a business owner. Like there's no really other way to do photography as a career other than running your own photography show. I'm sure you could get some jobs in big cities with other people, but you're running a business and not everybody is a business owner. So there's all these skills that you have to learn and you don't really have anywhere to look other than YouTube or trying to read about it online. So you feel you don't really have like that support. It's not like you're going to university, you have all your classmates with you you have a teacher that is kind of accountable for you, right it's it's just different. So your end because you're alone. Like there's just no one to turn to. So those those are the struggles and I find it with photography and doing photography as a career. It's very like you have to mentally understand what it's it's the mindset like you just have to be aware of these things. But know that there still is a way forward. And if you can keep pushing and keep learning and keep growing, and change your perspective about it, like you will succeed. So how I do this is, I mean, I constantly feel like I'm learning, always, always learning, but I look at it like, Okay, I've chosen this as a career. Let's say I chose to be a nurse, you know, that's for five years of university. Why is my photography, learning and my photography, career business growing any different, you know, give myself a few years to do it, right. And you kind of have to like it just as if you're deciding to go to school to be a nurse, you know, you have to figure out your your finances to be able to go back to school, right? Your you got to sort out your living situation, look at photography the exact same way, and just be patient and give yourself that time to actually properly grow a business. Most business owners fail in the first year. They do. And that's okay, though. Because how do you learn you learn from every mistake that you make? So those were the struggles, but with the right mindset, it's totally doable. Anything is doable? It all is. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:09   I love how you say that. Because I have I gone through this phase, exactly the same thing where I thought by the first year, everything would just be right. And you know, I go the first year, and then the second year, and then I was like, Huh, you know, it hasn't happened the way I want it yet. And then I had exactly that exact thinking, like, you know, I was an engineer, and it took me four years to become an engineer. And I expect that this thing will happen in a year. Right. So that is such a great thing for you to say and mentioned. I think that really grounded us. Right? Yeah. Because like, so give Sarah Lyndsay  26:48   yourself time. That's all like, it's simple. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:51   And like, I get it, like, you know, like Instagram and stuff. Like, you know, some people are really made it overnight and stuff. Okay, you know that that's their path. And you know, for most case, there are a lot of things that kind of line up with that. And also, this, the reason why I made this podcast is that most people that look like it's an overnight success, actually, and put a lot of work behind it. And you just see that change. And you're like, Well, he was like this yesterday, and then he's like this today, but why they didn't see is this all these years and months and weeks of, you know, being depressed being struggle being having that. Yeah, yeah. So that's yeah, that's, that is such a great thing for you to share. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. So you, like you know, like, recently, the NFT world can come in, and you jump ahead in first and you just get in there and you know, put yourself in there. So tell me, what is it that make you make make NFT intrigued you that make you want to be part of the NFT community as well as the NFT movement in the web? 3.0. Sarah Lyndsay  28:02   I, this NFT thing has been such a wild ride, I definitely did not think I would be there, like here in the NFT space. Like last year, at the same time, I didn't even have a clue. So I'm think I'm like everybody else. All other photographers that were curious, you know, you just come in and start listening and see what's going on. And then by how it's like everybody's supporting each other and the community building, which is great and amazing. But I do think that there's a lot of negative stuff in the NFT space around this community around the community stuff. So yeah, I just kept listening and kept showing up every day. And then I was like, Okay, well try to start building something here and seeing like, where it can go. And I just kept I just noticed, I kept showing up every day. So obviously I had an interest in it. And then you know, you get to your first collection that you put out and then something happens there that's like oh yes, I can keep doing this. And then your your second collection and you keep going on and on and on. Now I'm about four months in and I would say I'm pretty invested into this NFT world and like how I see it now is like this is we are I truthfully believe we are on like the edge of that this change. And especially for like web three and all of that. I believe it's the future. And then I thought to myself, I was like, Okay, well what if it's not? And what if all this fails? If it fails, it's okay, because I can always go back and do something else, right? I can go to other one other income arm of photography and start investing in that and take this year of failure, whatever. It's not that big of a deal. But if I don't give it a shot, and let's say it does take off, right? If I invest in it and it just skyrockets while I'm here and I'm ready for it. So that's that's where I say that what the NFT space right now is I do believe it's the future. And if it's not going to be the future, I've accepted like I'm okay with that loss, and that I can fall back and go and do something else. Like I'm okay with the failure if it fails, but I don't believe it's going to fail. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:59   You Wow, that's, that's great. Thanks for the insights. And, you know, you mentioned there, there are a lot of positive and negative and, you know, having been in this space for quite some time, what are some of the positive things that you have seen from this NFT space and make you kind of think that this is a great way for artists to be recognised, to be able to sell their art, as well as to be, you know, to authenticate there are? Sarah Lyndsay  30:27   Well, it's so funny, I don't know if you are the same, but I will probably say a lot of photographers before, if they're in the energy space before they came in the NFT. Space, they likely didn't see their work as art. So there's that that's, that's definitely changed my perspective with photography is I now am like, Okay, this totally photography fits into the art world. I mean, photography is a medium of art. So it's changed my perspective on how I see my own photography, definitely. But there still is a difference between like wedding photography, and your fine art landscape prints there there is, so I don't really consider you know, going to shoot a wedding and delivering them 1100 image images aren't like what maybe it is, but in my mind, it isn't. So there's that it's definitely changed my perspective on how I view photography. And now I'm more so looking at like, an artist path because an artist path is actually a lot different than a photographer path. But photography is just the medium. So that's really important to note, if you do decide to come into the NFT space, like you're, you're turning yourself into like an artist basically. And then you're great, there's a different way to like build your brand as an artist. And it's been fascinating, the learning journey of the NFT space. And like what I noticed, like the positives again, so obviously the community building, how we do all want to succeed, and we do all want to support each other, it is very, very connecting. The only thing I will say with the community building and a little bit of the negative is that we're all still human. And we still have those other sides of human emotions, like jealousy and anger, like just because we're community building doesn't mean everything else goes away. And I don't like I think people you can't be naive when you come in there use it's not all sunshine and roses. It's like anything else in life. So that's, that's the negative that I don't think people really realise when they come in. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:25   Yeah, no, I think I think you're absolutely right. You know, people kind of see this, actually, you know, before I go through this, I would like to ask you, what are some of the negative thoughts that people you know, if you ever have people come across to you, and you know, say like, you know, like, what are you doing this? Like, you know, an SD is a scam or whatever it is? Do you have any objection? Or any doubts from people about NFT? And what are those negative thoughts that people think NFT is, it's not here to stay? Sarah Lyndsay  33:00   Well, I haven't like other than negative comments, I haven't come across like a negative conversation with someone, I've definitely seen some of their comments on like my Youtube, Instagram, or they'll send a message, like in response to a story I post about NFCs. Right now, I choose not to respond simply because a lot of it is about the environmental impacts that NF T's are causing, but I just look, I know that that subject is a lot bigger than what I know. So a that's why I don't engage in that conversation. And I think for the person, the people who are constantly complaining about the impacts it has, I don't even think that they have the knowledge to understand it right now. And let's just say if it you know, if it is bad, whatever, it's clearly being worked on, and it's evolving, like it's innovating, it's not always going to be this negative way that they think. So that and that's usually the thing they try to kind of counter you with is the negative impacts on the environment. I believe that if people are being negative about it, it's not it's not going to be for everybody, and that's okay. But if they are constantly being negative about it, it's simply it's because they're afraid they don't understand. And that's our reaction when we don't understand is to be negative. So if I know it's going to turn into a battle, honestly, I don't respond. And I just I just let it go. Because I also feel that like the NF T space is going to prove itself over time. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:24   absolutely. And, you know, I love that how you say that because it's funny, like people will come to me and say, you know, like, oh NFT world is this and that and this and that. And you know, and I would ask them, it's like, okay, you say all this, right? You know, where, where do you know this? Or there is this article and this article, and it's like, okay, well, do you own an NFT? It's like, no, do you know how they work? No, it's like okay, if you're not in it, then how do you know that it is all these bad things? Right? It's it's like it's like when you when you when you're running a business versus you're looking at business from the outside. We we could look at this Does that look like it's striving but it's it's struggling, you know, and about to go bankrupt. And it could be the other way around. It looks like it's struggling, but it's actually building a foundation and it's suddenly take off, right? Tesla was a good example where, you know, many, many hedge fund was betting against them because they think it's not the future. But Elon, just keep investing on on the on the company to build that foundation. And now it takes off like there's no tomorrow. So it's really funny when when I heard people have this negative comment, and one of the things that I would always say is like, well, you maybe try to be in it, immerse yourself in it, and then judge it, right? Read the whole book before you judge it by its cover. And with the environmental bed is, you know, everything every change, go through struggle, every change, there's always gonna be pain when you go when you go through change. So it's the same with electric cars, electric cars, you know, was disposable when there is any small changes or any small problems? They need to buy a whole new one? So? Yeah, I'm so glad that you share that. I think, you know, I'm a big advocate on the NFT. Yeah, just because I know, the potential that the technology has, right, because people think NFT is this like, way of selling, but it's actually a tool? And you know, the utility is just absolutely, we haven't even come across like 9% of it. Yeah, it's just like, just the tip, the very tip of the iceberg. So, and I'm a big advocate to help other artists to be able to use this medium, because I know it's so yeah, I'm glad that, that you share that and going back to your photography. What are some of your most memorable moments in photography? And and why? Like, you know, the photo that if there is one photo that you could pick, which one would it be, and you know why it is so memorable? Sarah Lyndsay  37:09   I want to say, Okay, well, this, this will probably change in about a year. But like looking back, the fondest memories that I had was actually right before COVID, shut down the world, I went to New Zealand, and at the time, I was dating this fella, and he's from Australia. So me and him went to New Zealand together for two weeks. And he is not a professional photographer. He's a hobbyist. And that's all we did the whole two weeks was photography, but for ourselves, and we just like toured around the South Island. And I remember just not even being on my phone. Nothing. We just toured New Zealand and took photos. Like, it does not get any better than that. But sadly after that, though, COVID obviously came with her as soon as I got back home to Canada, and he was in Australia. And we were separated for two years. Because of because of Australia, Australia is tough. And yeah, so it's like, I have so many fond memories of that trip, but also a little bit of sadness, too, because it was probably the last time like, I've ever fully felt content actually in my whole life. So yeah, fine, but sad memories at the same time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:20   Oh, that's great. You know, like, I guess, you know, the big thing is like, you know, be thankful that it happened, right? Yes. Because it ends. So I'm glad that you had that experience, because I think it's really important. You know, what you say there earlier is that you create for yourself? And I think that's when we really happy as photography photographer, isn't it? So? Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's definitely something to learn there. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. And so, with, going back with, you know, like, now that you have your NFT you have all this means of you know, being a professional photographer. When it comes to, like, you know, life in general, right, like being photography and being everything that you're supposed to be in as a person, it's very difficult. How do you find that time? How do you find that, that balance that, you know, between spending time with your friends and families between going out shooting between hustling and grinding between you know, social media and so forth? What what are some of your advice to, to face that? Well, Sarah Lyndsay  39:34   I feel like when you run a business, you're obviously you have you have flexibility, which is good, like you can you can schedule all your own things in but I just feel like naturally I'm, I'm constantly always working on it. But if I want to go out with like my friends, or I want to go do something that is not photography related, which is actually very rare, like my life is photography, because even my friends are all photographers. I just schedule it in like I don't I honestly don't worry about it. But the thing with me and this is probably important to note is that I don't have kids. I don't have like, I'm not married. So I don't even have family around me. So I'm fully able right now at this stage of my life, to invest in photography. But if I want to go on a trip, or I want to, again, go out for dinner or something or go for coffee, I just do it. And that's kind of the the good thing about being a business owner is you don't have to ask for permission to have time off. Because it's like I and then I figure it out. Like it's getting to the point though, where I would say I probably can't just take off as much as I want, especially with the NFT space because of how important right now in these early stages we are in with the NF T space to brand build. So I've right now I've kind of made this choice, you know, to like, keep myself very grounded at home and not go off and do too many things, because I'm focusing on the brand building, but I know that that will lift and then I'll be able to incorporate more back into my life. I feel like for people who have kids, though, it's very tough. Like, it's you've definitely got to work on your balance and schedules and roof. Yeah. So I'm fortunate in a way that I'm alone, and I have all this opportunity to put into Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:14   it. It's funny how you say, you know, like the work never ends, because every time my friend asked me, it's like, so it was like How was your day you finish your work? So like, well, it kind of never ends. Sarah Lyndsay  41:25   It never ends. Like, there's always something that I always something to work on with your brand building. Yeah, it's either it's things that people don't really understand is work. Yeah, updating your website, your website always needs to kind of be like worked on. There's endless things, endless things, collections, videos, YouTube, like the I'm always working on something, I think it's really the one thing I'm bad at, because I'm a bit of a, I'm a scattered person, like, I'm just because of my upbringing, I feel like, I'm a little bit quirky, the kind of weird, I guess, I'm not very good at creating my own structure, I actually work much better under someone else. Well as in like, they will keep me on task. But if I'm given the brute like freedom to myself, it's hard to create a routine for yourself. So I'm actually also in therapy for business and to get help with all of this stuff as well, because it is challenging to grow. And I know I need a little bit of guidance. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:24   So that's great. You know, I'm glad that you say that, because I think many people are either not humble enough or don't have or don't think that, you know, asking for help is important. And it was an eye opener for me as well. Like, you know, like, I was like, I think I need to like learn this thing. And you know, I could learn it myself and go through, you know, all these years of trial and error. Or I could just go to someone who already know what they're doing and try to model them. Right. And of course, you have to, you know, fit it to your life and your, your business and everything. But at the end of the day, you have most of the answer there that you can, you know, try trial and error instead of trial and error during the trial and errors. Make sense? Sarah Lyndsay  43:07   Yes, yes, yes. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:10   That's amazing is there and, you know, we come to our mark, and it's been such a great conversation, you have dropped so many wisdom and advice it is and it's just been so inspiring to Italy to to learn your journey. And you know, how you turn a lot of that struggle into your strength. And that is that is something that most people doesn't do enough that usually if there is a struggle, there are strength that you could turn it into. So that's fantastic. So one of the things that I always ask my guests is that if there is one advice that you can give to, you know, either photographers or even just people in general that you know, might have come come across the journey that you are in today, what is that one advice that you would give them. Sarah Lyndsay  44:01   Honestly, give yourself a lot of patience, no matter what you're doing. If you want to be a photographer, you want to be anything else, give yourself patience to grow it and to show like show up for it every day. Even if it like even if you show up and put 30 minutes of work into it every day, it will still grow. Probably not going to grow as fast as someone putting eight hours a day in, but just showing up and doing something for you. Let's just say photography, your photography each day, it will grow and it will keep growing. And then also to give yourself that patience and have integrity. So if you're going to fall if you're going to do something, follow through with it. And that speaks volumes. actions always speak louder than words. So like yeah, that would be my voice patients and just show up. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:44   Fantastic. Well, Sarah, it's been a pleasure to have you here. You know, do you want to like let us know how can the listener you know, learn more about you or connect with you and get to know you better? Yes, Sarah Lyndsay  44:59   so All probably right now the best way to learn about me and get to know me as a person is my YouTube, which is Sarah Lindsay. Next would be Instagram. Again, that is Sarah Lindsey photography, I'm assuming we'll have links somewhere as well. Okay. And then Twitter if you want. I think this is important for in people wanting to get into the NFT space because I offer a lot of help there. So if you want to learn about NF TS or any of that stuff, come find me on Twitter with the same handle. And then of course, my website, I have my website, which is Sarah, Lindsey photography.com. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:33   Fantastic. I will include all that in, in the link on the description. So you could literally just go to the description and find those link. And don't forget to say hi, I see is such an amazing person as you already listened to. And just so grounded, so chill. Very approachable. So yeah, it's been such a pleasure, pleasure. Hopefully, I get a chance to go back to Canadian Rockies and spend money on COVID. Again, it's, it's fun, you know, because I was there for two and a half years and, and then I left. And I got into the NFT space. And I was like, man, there's so many ographers there and like, how come I never come across them. So it's it's funny how that works. Sarah Lyndsay  46:16   I just moved here. I just moved to the Rockies. So I'm past your time. But yes, there is. I do not care. I live here now. But I will say a lot of people do kind of stick within their own little groups. I noticed that. Yeah. But when Oh, well, that's okay. It's hard to meet people as an adult very hard. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:32   That's true, especially when everyone else in the mountain and the mountain is so bad. Sarah Lyndsay  46:36   Yes, yes. Yes, definitely. Definitely. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:41   All right. Well, is there thank you very much for being here for sharing your journey for, you know, sharing all those wisdom with us. There's a lot of inspiration to be taken from that. Sarah Lyndsay  46:52   Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. I always love chatting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:56   While we get into this, thank you very much for tuning in. If you haven't already subscribed, do hit the subscribe button so that you don't miss out on the next chat we have. And don't forget to give Sarah a visit. Give her a shout out. You know, whatever you do, and check out her work per banana work. It's work. Yes. You know, with that being said, thank you very much for tuning in. And I'll catch you guys next week.

Today we chat with Justin, a travel nurse and one of the most passionate storm chasers out there capturing awe-inspiring extreme weather photos.   He started photography wanting to shoot live events and bands before he came across his passion of storm chasing on a rural Minnesota highway one afternoon.   In this podcast, Justin will be sharing how important it is to connect with mother nature and to be able to use storm photography to express his emotions.   Link to the Photo that was mentioned on the podcast: https://foundation.app/@TheDreadlockTraveler/foundation/43328    If you want to learn more about Justin's work, you can find it here:   Social Media: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/DreadlockTvlr  • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedreadlocktraveler/  • Print Website: https://thedreadlocktraveler.smugmug.com/    NFTs: • SuperRare: https://superrare.com/thedreadlocktraveler  • Opensea Collection: https://opensea.io/collection/supercellular2021    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  -------------------  Transcription: Justin Snead  0:00   I still wanted to stop Chase, but I wanted to put down the camera because if you can't convey for me personally, I can't convey my emotions. And that's the number one thing that I want to do is convey my emotion so others can feel it, then I'm failing as an artist Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:22   Hey wiki hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our journey and how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have someone very special. Someone that's very passionate about chasing something that's quite different than what most photographers do this storm. And it's always been my dream to chase the storm. And yeah, I'm just so excited to be able to talk to Justin. Hey, Justin, how's it going? Well, actually, before I asked that question, what makes you start photography? Like, what is that one thing that makes you you know, what photography is cool. I want to do more of it. Justin Snead  1:02   You know, it's, it's kind of funny, because I think a lot of people think I started out with storm photography. That's actually not the case. I back in like 2016 or 17, I met this guy named Matt booj at a rock festival, huge rock band, love going to rock festivals. And he had a couple of prints that I wanted. So I met up with him. He signed them and you know, I bought them and I actually wanted to start out with my photography journey as a concert photographer. You know, it's it's kind of funny, because I think a lot of people think I started out with stock photography. That's actually not the case. I Unknown Speaker  1:43   Yo, what's going on, man? And you're still muted. Justin Snead  1:50   Us too. Can you hear me now? Unknown Speaker  1:55   Yeah. Hey, how's it gone? Justin Snead  1:57   Good, man. How much so? Can you hear me pretty good on these headphones? Yeah, Unknown Speaker  2:04   it's good, man. It's pretty good quality Justin Snead  2:11   okay Unknown Speaker  2:19   how's that sound? Does that sound better? Justin Snead  2:21   Oh, yeah. Yeah, you sound good. I just want to make sure these headphones sound okay. Versus uh, maybe just using the computer audio. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:28   Night. You're good, man. How's things? What's going on? Justin Snead  2:33   Thanks for good, man. Things are good. Just work has been busy. It's been pretty hectic. I've been kind of under the weather the past day or two. So yes, going through that. But But yeah, can't complain. Just ready for storm season to get here. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:44   Are you back out chasing yet? No, no, I've Justin Snead  2:47   got about two weeks left to work. And then I'll be I'll be heading out after that. Taking a few months off and chasing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:53   Nice sick? And is has the storm brewing and brewing already? Justin Snead  2:58   Oh, yeah, there have been a couple of setups already. There's actually a set up tomorrow that I'm considering going down for but I will have to do it afterwards. It's like five hours away. So it'd be a it'd be a big investment and gamble would just even probably wouldn't make it in time. But I'm thinking about it. I'm gonna look at some model data tonight and kind of make up my mind in the morning, I guess. Unknown Speaker  3:19   Cool. Fantastic. All right. Yeah. How Justin Snead  3:23   are things working dude? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:24   Yeah, doing some pretty well, pretty well. Like being in Bali for for a while now. And just like, you know, being with family and stuff, so that's good. So can I put the travel part beside for now. But I'm going to Nepal in about less than a month now. So going to Nepal in about a month, and I'm not sure I want to go somewhere and the end of the year as well. I'm thinking back to Canadian Rockies. And yeah, that would be so nice. And then I was thinking like to do what I wanted to do when I was there. You know, like, so be there until like March and then drive down to the states and do storm chasing but I'll have to see if it's like yeah, that's one hell of like, that's one hell of a trip, right? Because if I guess I want to be there during the large season, that's when the Alpine pine trees turn to yellow and stuff and that would be like so sweet. So the transition is actually the best and that's between like around October November, probably all the way to December and then after that it's kind of just flat you know ever too much snow and all you can see is just everything covered in snow, water and water and land so it becomes less interesting. And then become more interesting again towards the end like the spring because it's you can start doing the hike again. You know and chase like a lot of the Milky Way's towards towards this spring. So that will be nice, but yeah, there'd be like two months. I guess I could do snowboarding so it's not a bad thing. But yeah, I didn't know that Justin Snead  4:59   but uh Ma'am, we're getting so many solar storms right now you might be able to get some good overhead stuff. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:04   Has it hasn't been haven't been checking it for a while, but it hasn't been like, a lot more active recently has it? Justin Snead  5:10   Yeah, yeah, we're coming out of that solar minimum now. So we had an employer launch day or two ago. And I'm not sure if it's impacted right now. But I know they had a pretty good show in Alaska last night. I think if this is the same employer, I'm thinking about the issue to watch for Wednesday. So if it is, it's really slow moving, but you never know. You know? Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:31   Yeah, for sure. Because like, usually I'll see, like, everyone in Canadian Rockies would be like, you know, posting shot. And I'd be like, Yeah, I want to be back. Because I want to go to like, Norway as well, that would be pretty sick to go there. So yeah, I mean, I don't know, man, there's so many places I want to go. It's just so hard, you know. But yeah, it's now I'm just like, here, I'm planning to do like a, an NFT event here in Bali. So that's, that's kind of exciting as well, Justin Snead  5:59   that will be that will be pretty sick, actually. Especially if you can get a good crowd. They're like getting blocked by out to it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:05   Ha, man, I don't think it's that hard, you know, because like, everyone want to come to Bali. Right. So Justin Snead  6:10   I definitely want to Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:13   like, I mean, you know, if that's something you're interested in, I'll keep you at the back of my mind, you know, and we're looking for guests and stuff. I'm not sure yet if we can afford to pay speakers, but I'm hoping so. Because I hate getting people to do something without paying for it. You know? But yeah, I'm, um, I'm just putting a proposal together now talking with like, the local community, local NFT community and also the local exchange, you know, like, like the, the by Nance version of Indonesia, type of thing. You have, like, a lot of you. So I mean, chatting. Yeah. I mean, every every country has their own kind of exchange right? Apart from like, the binance. And the coin. What coin base, the popular one. So, yeah, I've been talking to them. And you know, hopefully, they say yes. But did you go to any of the NFT event it? Justin Snead  7:12   I went to our basil, which really wasn't a NFT event, but they had some NF T things going on, right. And I did fly out to eat Denver. I didn't even go to any of the events because it was just a, it was a train wreck of a mess, man, like, I've got there like super late Friday, I could have went out Saturday, but I was just I wasn't building it. So I just went out with some brands, you know, met a couple of brands and didn't even like go to any of the events? Pretty much. Yeah, fair. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:37   Fair. And what's the event? Like? Is it mostly like networking and exhibition? Is that how they usually set it up? Ah, Justin Snead  7:44   yeah, I mean, the eath dimmer a bit was from what I heard, it was a little bit different, just because it's more so for, for like, like engineers and programmers who are, you know, building building different things on the Etherion platform. Obviously, there was some, you know, like, NFT events that kind of surrounded it, but it wasn't actually part of the official material, eat timber conference, they have one or two things in FP related, but that was on top of a tonne of other things. So it Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:13   was more of a crypto event. Yeah, but you just Justin Snead  8:17   make connections and you know, hang out with people talk that type of deal. Party. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:22   sake, man. And, yeah, I was thinking to do that, because like, Bali is pretty sick place for that, right. Like, you know, half like the general admission, and then a VIP, and then the, and then like the, like, I don't know, VVIP I suppose if we were going to put a name for it, and then the VVIP will get access to this, like, private, like party, by like, the cliff or something like that. And I was thinking to do like, a mastermind programme and stuff at the end of it, you know, just to, like, help people who really want to achieve something by the end of the by the end of that mastermind, right? Like, whether it's like, you know, they just started they want to get to know what what's NFT or like, you know, they're like, want to learn the marketing side of it and you know, those kinds of stuff basically. So yeah, I think it'd be really cool to like bridge that gap between the people who been wanting to try it out but you know, don't know versus and the people and the NFT world basically right as well a really hate is that I start seeing this I mean, you know when it first when you guys were when the OG started it, you know, like, you know, when tactics and stuff like that, right. He was pretty good set up and then now we come into where a place where everyone just hope to get in and they just do whatever it takes to do that. And, you know, and like, I mean, like, I've seen arts that's selling for like 00 Is that the other eight 0.003 eath. And I was like, Well, I get what you're trying to do right now. Um, but it's killing the market. And it's killing the whole idea behind the NFT. Like, you know, it's like, we're just back to the normal thing now of selling prints, you know what I mean? Yeah, Justin Snead  10:11   pretty much. I mean, you know, like, doing a dish like other good additions, print work. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:17   Yeah. Like, don't have any, like, addition makes sense, you know, but one of the one man, this was a one on one, one. This was one of one, it's zero point. It's not even, like, I think your addition was 0.04. Right? His 0.06 or 03, or something? So it was like, really cheap. And, yeah, I don't know. Like, yeah, it's gonna be interesting how it all changed. So, I think, you know, I mean, if we have a plan behind it, you know, on, you know, what he's planning to do forward and how you're going to use that then. Okay, fair enough. But if you just do it for the sake of doing it, then you know, that's gonna be a problem. Because then yeah, I guess that's, that's all the education that I'd love to, like, bring to the table, you know, like, why you jump in there? And you know, what, what, what happened if you do a and how it impacted others and stuff like that, and, yeah, but, yeah, so the podcast is more about? Well, first of all, do you have any piece or collection that you want to promote in the podcast? Justin Snead  11:21   Ah, I normally when I do podcasts, I try to actually kind of keep the NFT side out of things are like limited. We could totally talk about I'm totally fine with it. But I don't really have any. I mean, I have like a super weird drop that I'm gonna do later this week. But okay, I don't know if it's gonna be Wednesday or Thursday. That's cool. Yeah, right. I heard about it. Yeah, we could talk some NFT stuff I don't mind at all. Yes, you want to go but it basically, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:48   no, it's not going to be heavily. That's what I was gonna say is, it's, it's more about you and your journey as a photographer. And of course, the NFT partner, you know, we're going to touch we're going to touch base to the NFT part, because you kind of landed on that. So probably gonna be like, you know, the last 1015 minutes as it cuz that's, that's where you end up right now. Right? But basically, it's like, think of it like we're hanging out in a cafe. And, you know, I'm just, we're just getting to know each other. And that's, that's what I'll literally do, like, you know, I don't know much about you. And I just like, I just want to get to know you as a photographer. Right? What, how are like how you started? What makes you excited about it, and all this stuff? So yeah, just just go with that. And also, when I asked the question, you know, feel free to, to elaborate, but try not to go on to the next topic, you know what I mean? So, the reason behind that is like, so we have this interaction so that I can ask the next question. And that makes it more interesting, instead of you like having a monologue of it. And, yeah, so towards the end. The, the thing that I always ask my podcast guests is, if there is one advice that you could tell any photographer or a creator out there, what would it be. So that's something that you could think about now, as we talk or whatnot. And then that's when I will ask you, you know how to find you and stuff like that. So if you do want to give a plug to, I don't know, your workshop, your prints your NFT, feel free to do that. I will put the link on the description. I usually put three links, website, Facebook, and Instagram, but I think you're more active on Twitter instead of Facebook. So you could do Instagram and Twitter. And then, you know, if you have any collections or any photo that were talked with talk about then I will include the link in there as well. But yeah, apart from that, and then just pre chill, just free. You know, nothing. It's not like I don't have a list question like literally. Yeah, it's Unknown Speaker  13:51   just like hanging out. So what's that one thing that I want to only say I got no, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:59   no, he'll, it'll come up. But um, I so we'll start a little intro, just say, you know, welcome to the podcast. And then I'll introduce you a little bit, you know, and then from there, I'll say, Hey, Justin, how's it going? And then you know, you can say hi, back. And then that's where we start with a question. I'll start asking you the question and stuff. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Awesome. Do you want to grab last minute water you guys go water to perfect. Do you want to do last minute bathroom break? Justin Snead  14:30   I probably shouldn't do that. Because it's a good idea. Yeah, no worries. All right, man. Unknown Speaker  15:41   All right, let's get it on. Let me just show you this recording. This is one time where I did like the whole podcast and I didn't press the record button. Justin Snead  15:51   Alright will be horrible embarrassing I just like it's all good. Mistakes learn. Alright man. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:02   Alright, let's get started. Hey wiki hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share our journey and how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone very special. He is, you know, someone that's very passionate about chasing something that's quite different than what most photographers do the storm. And it's always been my dream to chase the storm. And yeah, I'm just so excited to be able to talk to Justin. Hey, Justin, how's it going? Justin Snead  16:39   It's going pretty good, Stan. Thanks for having me on and waking up at what, seven or eight o'clock in the morning to do this? Yeah, man. I'm waking up at Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:49   night. It's good. It's good. I've been trying to change my routine and stuff. So it's kind of helped me, you know, it pushed me to wake up early. But yeah, what's so you know, like, I've come across your work. I think it was last year, early last year. And you know, I, I'm a big fan of storm chasing, because that's one of the highest bucket lists that I've, I've wanted to do. And you know, I've almost done it, because, but if it wasn't for the pandemic, but what? Well, actually, before I asked that question, what makes you started photography? Like, what is that one thing that makes you you know, what photography is cool, I want to do more Justin Snead  17:25   of it. You know, it's, it's kind of funny, because I think a lot of people think I started out with storm photography, that's actually not the case. I back in like 2016 or 17, I met this guy named Matt booj at a rock festival, huge rock band, love going to rock festivals. And he had a couple of prints that I wanted. So I met up with him, he signed them. And you know, I bought them. And I actually wanted to start out with my photography journey as a concert photographer. I just loved rock festivals so much, you know, it was just, it was my thing. And I always wanted to get into that, and meeting him just kind of inspired me to pick up a camera. Well, little did I realise that rock, like rock photography, in general, it's very hard to get into a lot of the people who are at these major festivals, or work with these headliner bands, they've been doing it for 1015 20 years, before they even get to that level of expertise to shoot those concerts. So I just kind of, I kind of let that go. And I started looking for other other genres of photography to get into. I started looking at general landscape photography, wildlife photography, and astrophotography. You know, those things that nothing ever really clicked with me, as far as you know, just filling it in my soul. Like, that's what I wanted to shoot, until I came across a random random cloud that I knew nothing about in the state of Minnesota in 2018. And that's kind of where the passion started for storm photography was just driving along to, to a tribal contract that I was working in, ended up running across this cloud. It's like, Oh, that's pretty cool. But then something clicked, you know, something. It was like, a little something inside of me said, man, like, this is it, this is what I've been wanting to do the whole time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:13   So cool, man. You know, I mean, concert photography, or you know, rock photography would be so sweet. But I would just say, you know, I'm glad that you decided to keep going because you're you're a storm shots, oranges, you know, they're different. And, you know, that's, that's what I really enjoy the most about it. So, how long did that take you to kind of come to that conclusion or, you know, come to that moment, light bulb moment and come across that experience that made you say, You know what, this is like, like, I know that you can share that a little bit but just tell us a little bit about it. What like what was it what was it about that moment that makes you feel like this is what you want to do you know what I'm what I mean? Justin Snead  19:57   Yeah, know what you mean? I think it's I think it's the connection that you have with Mother Nature. You know, people bind those connections in various places. And, you know, again, that's what photography is all about. It's about helping people connect with Mother Nature, usually, in some way, shape or form, that's portraits included, you know, I think a lot of people forget that, you know, as humans, you're part of nature. You know, it's not just animals and trees and mountains, you are a part of nature, what you do in life, is, you know, detrimental to what happens in nature. But I think, for me, what really clicked was just seeing the storm and pulling the winds getting swept into the storm, you know, having my phone go off with this loud noise, because they had a tornado warning on it. And the adrenaline started building and see this cloud just rotating underneath this storm. And don't get me wrong, it wasn't even a beautiful storm, it was, you know, I look back at that now. And I'm like, I would have never put my camera on board. But back then it was just, it was it was magical. That's, that's all I can say. But more than more than anything else, it just, I can't really put it into words, it was just something clicked. And it was kind of like, at that moment, I knew that this was where I needed to be, this is what I needed to do to be able to express myself to be able to connect with mother nature, and then to be able to share it with others in the hopes that they are able to connect with not only the storm photography and mother nature, but whatever's going on in their lives. Wow, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:28   that's that's incredible, man, I think you put that really well, you know, and just like that whole What do you call it purpose on you know, capturing the storm, there's so much more purpose behind it. That's awesome. I love that. I love to hear that. But I can totally relate about connecting with Mother Nature, like, you know, I'm the same I love to do a lot of different genres of photography, but when I do astrophotography it's just especially when I do like, you know, like, like an adventure Astro photography is just like something that really excites me or, you know, like, everything feels like, like nothing else matter. And I think I know, like, as soon as you say that, you know, you connect with the nature. It's like, I think I know that feeling. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, so, you know, going through your journey. So you're like, you're are you doing this full time or part time or just kind of as a side hustle at the moment? And what are your plans for the future. Justin Snead  22:29   So when I first started, like actually shooting storm photography, it took a year or two just to learn how to forecast properly. You know, and then not only that, but you know, finding the time to be able to chase you know, for those who are not familiar with storm chasing the United States Midwest is is vast Tornado Alley, as it's called, stretches from Texas, all the way up into North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Minnesota, Iowa. So there's a large area you have to cover sometimes, and I never started out full time or even part time, I would just kind of there was a local setup that I could get to a few hours away, I would end up you know, getting off work at two or three o'clock driving for hours and hoping I could catch the end of the song. Slowly after that 2018 2019 When 2020 rolled around, I had plans to actually take off a month, maybe two months and chase well COVID-19 hidden and that just completely crushed any plans for chasing so I ended up ended up maybe chasing eight days that year and it was probably the roughest moment of my life as far as photography is concerned because I just got I got super depressed you know, because there were a lot of there are a lot of setups that I know I could have brought back spectacular work that I just couldn't Chase just due to due to work on the tribal health care nurse and you know, working at surgery, a lot of people ended up being not laid off but you know, being sent home or even working on different floors. And as a traveller I'm required to come in pick up the slack so it really required me to come in and you know, just really focus my attention more so on Mark than photography but I'm kind of put a goal in my mind. Okay. 2021 It's going to be the year I'm just going to take I'm going to take off the whole summer spring summer I got off work may 9 I think my contract ended and just hit it as hard as I could probably drove 60 plus 1000 miles within the span of like three months. And I'm glad I did because things just kind of things just really fell and clicked into this beautiful journey that I never thought I would have went on even with even with starting photography like I knew it was something I wanted to shoot but I never thought I would be dispassionate about it. But last year, last year just it did something you know it, it really put that chip on my shoulder that you know I can do this Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:01   Wow, that's awesome, man. I mean, first of all, thank you for you know, your services as a nurse. And, you know, it's, it's incredible that you still have time after, you know, being a nurse because I know it's a, it's a one of the toughest work out there, I've got a few nurse friends, myself, and you still have the time, you still make the time to go out there and, you know, chase this as your passion. And I think that's really cool. You know, that's something that I always tell everyone, like, you know, you don't have to pursue your passion full time, but make sure you have the passion and do that, like, make sure that you make time for it. Because otherwise what's what's life without it right? Justin Snead  25:41   You're definitely right, man. I mean, I started out, you know, just kind of shooting after work to kind of going, you know, kind of part time. And luckily, with the job that I do assigned, go to new contracts at various hospitals. So I can, you know, basically just work during the offseason, and now work full time and storm chasing. So it makes it very easy for me to, to just have that time off and really chase that passion. So last year, I did it this year, I'm gonna do it even harder. And this is what I'm going to do the next 20 3040 years of my life probably. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:13   That's awesome, man, that is so sounds so exciting. You know, I just like, man, like, I could feel the goose. It's like, man, that would be legit, awesome thing to just storm Chase. How's that dynamic between the two? Like, do you enjoy being a nurse? And, you know, are you planning to still do it as a part time? Because I know some people really love their profession. Right? And but they love photography as well. And they find that balance. But or are you You know, it's your passion? Do you find that your passion is in storm photography now that you are going to shift into that full time? What What are your plans in the future. Justin Snead  26:52   So my passion is in storm photography, one or set. The thing about storm storms in the US is that we kind of have a season. So from you know, mid April, up to August, September, October is kind of like what I would call that elbow most for the season. That's when you get your bulk of severe weather in the United States. So it kind of makes it easy for if you want to pursue storm photography and storm chasing full time, but it's still work a job afterwards makes it kind of easy. As long as you have a job that's flexible or seasonal. You can always work in the fall and winter and spring and summer off. That's kind of been my plan moment. I've been I've been a surgical tech and a LPN for the past 12 years of my life, I've worked in surgery for 12 years now. I'm not sure if that spark is still there, like it once was, I do enjoy it, I enjoy going to these new hospitals and meeting new people. But when it comes to the actual surgery, I've done it for so long, it's just become routine for me almost. So that's something that I've been contemplating whether or not I want to try a different career path are, you know, maybe just sit back and really focus on just promoting storm photography and storm chasing year round. And who knows, I don't know, the thing about you know, doing work is that, I find that it kind of helps you balance out some of the stress of being a photographer. Because it can be a very stressful and you know, it can be a very stressful job, you know, especially when you have months of no sales or limited sales and the bills are piling up and things of that nature. And honestly, I've enjoyed being able to work part time help people and then still be able to pursue my passion bullet. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:38   Yeah, man, like, I totally agree with you, like, you know, like, sometimes that shift between creativity and I suppose, you know, the stuff that's not less, that's the are less creative, right? Most of the nine to five job are less creative. Compared to photography, it does help out the balance, right? I feel like you know, as a human being, we kind of need the two to stimulate one or the other. But I get what you mean with the with this, like, you know, getting things repeated, and it becomes like a routine. That's one thing I could not handle as well. And I know some people love routine. But you know, that's why I decided to do a travel photography, because like when you travel, there's always something new, right? New people, new places. And yeah, I can handle the routine as well. So I know exactly what you mean. That's cool, man. And so, you know, it's been one long journey for you and to get to where you are right now. And you you started to, you know, do tours and stuff you do NFT you have pretty good success in there as well. But along the way, what are some of your biggest struggle, you know, in that journey that make you almost, if there is any moment that make you want to quit photography and ended up you know, altogether and you know, you know, because I know that I have that moment where it's just like, I don't know if you know I still Want to do this and stuff? So do you have that moment? If not, then what are what one of your biggest struggle within the journey? Justin Snead  30:10   I would say my biggest struggle was shortly after, I kind of like, learn how to forecast with storm photography or storm chasing and, you know, put myself in the right positions, and I started having those opportunities to catch storms. I really struggled with being able to convey my emotions within the photos, I couldn't get my edits to properly display. How are you I felt that that time when I was doing the store, or how I felt at the moment, I was looking at art as an extension of yourself, stitching of your emotions, what you're, what you're putting out, there is an extension of you. And your, and it's looking right back at you. So when you're not truly connected with it, for me as an artist, not as a photographer, but as an artist, it doesn't sit right with me. And I became really frustrated with that to the point to where I still wanted to storm Chase, but I wanted to put down the camera. Because if you can't convey for me, personally, I can't convey my emotions. And that's the number one thing that I want to do is convey my emotions so others can feel it, then I'm failing as an artist. But I really had to, you know, put aside a lot of the doubt a lot of that a lot of that failure and use it as as fuel. You know, because many people give up when they're feeling frustrated when they feel like they can't do this. But the one thing about art is that you're always chasing something that you're never going to find success as an artist, you can, you can never say that you're wonder percent successful, or you know, 100% Perfect. In that journey, you're always reaching for something different, you're always looking to convey something different. And once I realised that, that's when, ironically, that's when I was able to start for some reason. I mean, how I wanted to convey my emotions through my photography, but then be really putting into perspective what being an artist is, because I think a lot of people don't realise that a lot of people don't realise that being an artist is a never ending job. You know, you're going to take this job to your deathbed and not feel like you've done your best. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:25   Yeah, wow, that's, that's so inspiring. You know, like, when, when I first studied engineer, like, I studied engineering, because it was like, you know, the easiest spot, I always saw it as the easiest path to, to, you know, have like a comfortable life. And I used to look at this art student and I was like, Man, this case, just, whatever you're doing, they're not doing anything. It's just like slapping things together. And like, and then, you know, ironically, I pursue something that's artistic. And when I started photography, I know exactly what you meant. It's like, you know, as an artist, it's just, it is one of the hardest thing to do in life. Like, you know, it's, it's, you, you creating something like you say, you make you create something that's truly connect to you, and so that you can be proud of it. Because otherwise, even though they're as beautiful as it is, and people love it, just go like, yeah, it's okay. Right, you get that feeling. Justin Snead  33:18   I know exactly what you're feeling. I know that feeling that oh my god, I've had that so much on like, just Instagram before this whole NFT explosion. You know, people will say, Oh, my God, I love this photo. I'm like, okay, they're like, What are you talking about? Like, it's, you know, it's alright. Unknown Speaker  33:35   I really hate how you know, the popular places, or, you know, the popular time is the one that gets most exposure and likes, right? And that was just like, ah, like, it's, I mean, like, 1000s and 1000s of people would have this exact same shot, like, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:50   I'm not that proud of it. But yeah, it's so funny that you say that as an artist. It's a never ending journey. And that's, that's something that, you know, perspective I, I guess I knew deep inside, but I didn't know it until you said it. So thanks for sharing that. And it's very searcher. But you know, as an artist, I think the hardest part is having that self doubt having that imposter syndrome, right? Thinking that? Will I ever make it and what you say was was great, because I think not only as an artist, but as an artist, I think this is a lot more apparent that usually the journey is flatline, right? It really small rise, and then all sudden something happened that makes it all the difference. And then that's where everything becomes exponential, right? And that's why the people that doesn't give up are the people that made it that the people that passed that point. But what are some of the things that you that that that had helped you to get out of this like impostor syndrome or you know, your self doubt, and to keep to just keep going to believe in the process. Believe in your journey and believe in your goal? Justin Snead  35:00   I would say that having friends who have been there to the ups and downs, who can talk me off that ledge of, you know, whenever I'm feeling a certain type of way, they can remind me that, hey, you know, this is not the way that you should feel, you know, who you are, you know, who you are doing the uptimes Why are you building like this during the doubt downtimes at, you know, really kind of uplifted because it's, it's human nature to build down sometimes. And it's perfectly normal. For me, personally, I've now found the ability to somehow be able to create, when I met, like, my worst, you know, and I think that being able to translate, like those feelings of when I'm feeling that self doubt, and, you know, the failures of like, being able to translate that into my photos, it's actually kind of a therapy for me. And then it just kind of, I don't know, if it makes the journey much easier. So those feelings of quitting or feeling like I'm an insufficient artist, I haven't had those in a long time now. But it's because I know how to, I know that I've been here before. And more importantly, I know how to take those emotions, those negative emotions, and turn them into positives by releasing them out through my photos into the world. And then seeing other people, you know, even though they don't know what I'm feeling at all, then message me on Instagram or Twitter, you know, thanking me for posting the picture and saying, Oh, I was stealing this type of way. And this picture just kind of resonated with it. And then here, you are sparking up a natural conversation about those emotions that you are building with, sometimes a complete stranger. There's a very beautiful thing in that. And it's helped me a tonne along with my friends, and it's just kind of a just kind of a snowball effect, I guess you could say, and it's really helped me on my my journey a lot. And it just, it helps to push my passion even further seeing other people not only resonate with it, but help them in their personal life. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:06   Goal, man. Yeah, that's, that's definitely one of the thing that had kept me going a lot. Especially to, you know, the hard time is when you get like, people that are inspired with the, you know, our journey. And, you know, that's, you know, and when I started this journey, I never thought that people would do that. Right. And just like you just like what you say, I think that really fuel you know, who we are as an artist? Because then you know, we kind of feel that our work is not just being ignored. Yeah. Oh, I just lost my train of thought there again, getting too old for this movie, I've tried to do this, yeah, JT did this, not too much. Coffee thing. So it kinda like, doesn't really help as well. What I was gonna say was with with your journey, and, you know, a lot of that negative thinking, is that mostly, like, just in your head? Or is there actually something that, you know, something that had happened over and over again? And, you know, what you say was, this messages and, you know, like, people appreciation can really make a difference, right? But for like a small creator, who kind of just started right, it might, they might not have that, what you call it mass switch, to be able to have enough people to kind of be able to see their work and have that appreciation, what would you say to them on, you know, what are the things they should do to be able to push past this and keep going until that critical point where they, you know, in quotation mark, make it Justin Snead  38:48   I would say, and, you know, every person is different. So, what has helped me probably won't help somebody else, but it may, I would say, to, to really focus on your vision with your work. Everything that's happened to me on a positive level, you know, regardless, you know, whether or not it's NF T cells, print cells, working with Tor companies now, but storm chasing, it's been a byproduct of really focusing and sinking on my vision. I've had a lot of brands on Instagram, who have really focused on gaining that following, you know, just chasing that big number, you know, gaining that those large amounts of likes, and, you know, they would always, you know, try to beat up on feature pages and things of that nature. It was always about the numbers. And luckily for me, like, even when I first started out, it was like, for me, those things never counted. They never mattered. And the reason why is that that's not what I was after. I never photography as a business. And ironically, I still don't look at it as a business. What I Do put my focus on is my vision, what I want to portray my art, and then let things just go, you know, because if you're not focused on that, then your mind is going to be all over the place, you're going to be chasing those numbers chasing those likes trying to get the attention of people. And for me personally, that's not what art was about. For me, it was about releasing, releasing the negative things that have happened in my life, into my art, and then having people resonate with now, you know, regardless of if it's, you know, 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, that doesn't matter, at the end of the day, you know, there's one person who resonates with it, then I am successful as an artist, it doesn't matter, I've made money off of it or not, I think for a lot of us who are within the NFT space, especially, when you, when you look at the way we are people, sometimes chasing money and things of that nature, you got to realise that part of being an artist is not necessarily focusing on the money, let that be a byproduct of what you're trying to go after. So really focus in on your vision, what you're wanting to actually portray, but your art, and then just let it be let let the failures and the successes, you know, right, because it's going to be a wait no matter what, it's rare for people to, you know, come out with their art and instantly just skyrocket. You know, as an artist, it's almost a duty to go through the highs and lows, and enjoy the journey, because that's what makes being an artist great is being able to navigate it. That's awesome, man. That's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:32   such a great advice. And I think like people have that have that unrealistic expectation of thinking that, you know, if you made it in Instagram, then you made it as an artist? And you know, I think that's, that's a bit backward, because that's not why we started photography. I'm sure it wasn't Instagram, right. Instagram is just a platform, right? Yeah, I think, yeah, sorry, Kevin. Justin Snead  41:58   I was just gonna say, I think a lot of people kind of found inspiration through the Instagram platform. But then, you know, with the influencer thing, and, you know, obviously, you know, seeing numbers, big numbers. As humans, we're automatically we gravitate towards that. Now, you want all the money, you want all the followers, you want all the likes, but I've been very lucky in that, that was never, ever my focus ever. Like, no matter what I've been doing, I've never been like, you know, oh, I need to have this many followers to, you know, I need to have more reach. And you have more does that, because at the end of the day, my vision with my art doesn't correlate with that. And like I said, everything has been a byproduct of the grind, you know, doing photography for six years now. And just recently started having success with it a year or two ago, four years was a long time to, you know, not have success. But the thing is, is, I've been happy without that success. And even if my successes overnight, just alter and I'll go back to making no money on this, guess what? Still gonna be out chasing the storm, still gonna be out, just putting my emotions to it. And going from there. That Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:09   is so awesome, man. Like, you know, one of the best advice. I mean, it's one of the reason why I do this podcast because people literally look at Instagram and think that, you know, these people just like born yesterday and have 2030 50,000 followers, and they're like, Okay, I wanted to do that. So, right, it's not like that. And, you know, you just shared the grind and the journey and it's just, you know, for listener who's out there who's like, in this space, like, you know, there'll be a time there'll be a time where, you know, everything makes a difference and everything just makes sense. Right? And it might not today might not be tomorrow, it might not be in next month or next year but if that's something you love, then just remember your why right? And I really love about what you say that because you just stick to just remember why you started or why you do storm photography and you just stick with it and it just kept going because of that so that's that's so it's such a good advice and hopefully creators out there who you know are feeling this feeling can resonate with this and can take this as a as an advice. And so what you do is incredibly dangerous, right? And not only from the store and but also from the traffic the weather, you know, all this stuff if the storm turning the other way towards you and stuff like have you ever have Have you ever been into in in a sticky moment where you just go like, Ah, I shouldn't be here. Justin Snead  44:39   Yeah, yeah, me and my strategic partner, Matt Holliday. We've had a couple of instances where it was like, oh, it's time to go. We almost got mowed down by a potential tornado last year in South Dakota. I also almost got struck by lightning twice last year. Luckily that didn't happen but I know storm chasers who have been struck by lighting multiple times at that. So it's definitely a dangerous thing to do that. And again, like you mentioned, not only with the actual storms, you know whether or not it's a tornado, or lightning, other chasers who are out there driving erratically, wildly, because we oftentimes chase them to sunset, kind of through sunset, and then we're driving back in the dark. Well, where we're at in the Midwest, it's very, it's very desolate. There are a lot of deer, wherever you're putting on deer or elk, depending on where you're chasing it. And people get into wrecks all the time. So it is a very dangerous, dangerous genre of photography to get into. That's why I always have advertised when people approached me about storm chasing. And, you know, they're asking me questions about, you know, where should I go work? Or should I go? Where should I go? I want to see a storm. And I'm staying saying to them, yeah, do you know, do you know what you're looking at in the sky? Can you tell if this storm is about to produce a tornado? Before it produces a tornado? Can you tell if this storm is strengthening or weakening? And then do you know your position relative to the storm? Because it's very important, extremely important. And the last thing I would want to see is anybody getting into danger or potentially dying? Because I told them of a spot to go to, and then they're in front of the storm and don't know what to do? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:26   That's it. Yeah, that's, that's awesome that you did that. I know that people kind of don't, people who doesn't understand just think like, oh, yeah, just go to sport and watch this. And I remember I was reading, because I wanted to do this don't chase. And I remember, I was reading up a lot about it. And it was, it was crazy how the biggest casualty was happened because of car accidents. You know, just as just as is like, oh, like, you know, the actual danger is not the storm but or the lightning, but it was actually the, the other chasers, yeah, I reducers. And people are, you know, looking at the storm, and they didn't pay attention to the road when they were driving. So actually one of my idol or in one of the photographer that got that got me into, you know, shooting storms and lightning back in birth was died. And because of a car accident, I'm very sad about it. But yeah, it was it just goes to show how, how crazy it can be. But tell me about that moment when you almost get caught in a tornado. And I love how you Unknown Speaker  47:29   just say that. And he just like, brush it away as if he was like, No, I was like, hold on, hold on, you always get slapped by a tornado. What happened? And I tell him, Justin Snead  47:41   almost, yeah, so we were me and Matt were chasing in South Dakota. And we ended up driving down to the storm, our original target, just it didn't pan out. And I could tell that the storm that was south of us, it was the storm to be on. So we're driving down to it. And, and I see it and you know, it's just this massive storm, it's what we call a high precipitation Supercell, which means that it's dumping a lot of rain. And within what we call the the mezzo, it's rain wrap. So you can't see if there's a tornado or not in it. You can see it on radar. But visually, it's very hard to see if there's a tornado or not. So while we're driving down the interstate, this storm is probably seven or eight miles to our to our west, it's putting on a tornado, you can see it oh radar that it's putting out a massive tornado. So we start to get in position to where we are going to be able to shoot the store because it had some some decent structure on it. And, you know, we're trying to get east of the storm so that we can get a really nice visual on that, well, I make this critical mistake of having us go south a little too early. And sometimes what happens with the storms is they will deviate. Which means basically, they're moving in a certain direction, but when they get really strong, they'll start to turn erratically. And I knew within a mile or two of making that decision to go south that we have made the wrong decision. So we literally stopped and within this is where it becomes really important to a know where you're at be visually be able to see what the storm is doing. See, visually be able to see what it's doing on radar. Because radar was looking at the radar, I was like This storm is turning right into us. And it's probably putting on a tornado right now. We might get caught. So within a matter of 30 seconds me and my partner were like can we make it back north? Nope. Okay, which we're going to get out of this. So we ended up being able to go a little bit further east on some dirt roads, which kind of suck if you get at the storm in South overtaking you which it kind of did. So we got called into the outer circulation of a potential tornado. Now, the tornado itself hadn't lifted. There was a little bit of circulation but I don't think there's anything tornadic now But we ended up having to drive through 95 mile per hour straight line winds for about a good 10 minutes. And it was gnarly, you know, we knew we were safe, just because we can tell by the wind direction that we were out of the area of what we call the bears cage, basically where the tornado might be. But it's still very horrible, you'd have trees getting blown down into the road, you can't see anything, because the rain is getting blown straight into you. And I don't know, I wish I would have been streaming that live on Instagram, just so people can really see what it's like when you're in those situations. Because sometimes you have to make life or death decisions within a minute or two. Granted, that storm had already lifted up this tornado, but if it had not, there's a very high chance that we could have been in the outer bands of the tornado. And knowing how to get out of those situations, it's very important being out there, especially when there's other places you could potentially block the roads are just drive slow, because they don't know what you're doing. And but you know yourself like you're in a very dangerous spot, you got to go, go go. So that's why I advise people to just really be safe when they're out chasing. If you don't know what you're doing. Find somebody who does join a tour. There's plenty of tools out there and where people who do know what they do know what to do can keep you safe, because we want everybody to live and go home at the end of the day. Yeah, wow. That's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:23   crazy. That's that's a wild wild story. Man, I just yeah, it's just, it's just like imagining being, you know, being like sitting on your passenger seat and going through that. I'd be like, Ah, we're lift to lift off. That's, that's, that's insane. Yeah, so thanks a lot for sharing your journey, sharing your, you know, your struggles. And I think it's important to, for photographers who kind of already made our, our journey further to share that, you know, it's not, it's not all fun in game, like, there's a lot of things that goes through, and it was great to be able to hear your perspective on how to get out of it as well. Now, I'd love to hear about your successes, you know, what are some of your proudest moment, being a photographer, I know, you, you, you kind of started the tour last year or this year or something like that. Justin Snead  52:21   So I helped out with a tour company last year. And I think that kind of kind of helped me realise that I really wanted to take others out to see storms. Because seeing those, those clients face what we got in front of massive super cells that have beautiful structure, and, you know, they see us get giddy, and then it's like, they know, like, oh my god, this is it. It's very weird how storms are because they can go from looking just kind of garbagey and whatever. And, uh, you, you'll slowly see it starting to take structure and, you know, people who have chased, we could we could tell we're like, oh, it's starting to do it. And then clients start getting happy. And they're like, oh, is this gonna be it. And then next thing, you know, you have this massive Supercell and everybody's cheering, they're going crazy, they're getting the shots they want, you're getting the shots you want. It's just a very beautiful thing. So this year, I'm actually Co Co leading with two different tour companies of summoner and workshops. So it's gonna be pretty exciting, I'm excited to get a chance to take other people out again, and, you know, just see if we can get in front of some storms. And one thing about storm chasing is it's, there's no guarantee with what we can get. So it can be, it can, it can be hard, you know, we have you know, especially with climate change in the way things have definitely been us, you can have weeks of you know, just nothing in, you know, if you're caught on a workshop with that, if it gets very hard because even though people know, you know, we can't guarantee you them something in the back of your mind, you're still expecting somebody, even though you know it. So I'm just, I'm excited. I'm very excited to take some people out. And hopefully we can catch some, some Supercell structure, some tornadoes, some lightning and also eat some good food because, you know, I love my food. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:04   Yeah, that's, that's awesome. Yeah. And, you know, that's, that's cool that you, you get to find that last year and, you know, continuing forward with that moment, too. And I know that you you made really good success in the NFT world as well. But you know, out of everything that had happened in your journey, what are some of your proudest moment that, you know, it could be something that that had happened with, with the business or with the NFT? Or with with your tour? Or maybe it's just a moment that you are managed to capture with your camera? Well, you know, do you have that moment that you think about, you know, if nothing else, like if everything else didn't happen? This one moment makes everything worth it? Justin Snead  54:48   I do have that moment right now, but I know it's going to be replaced later on down the road as I'm chasing. For me. I would say my most successful moment was capturing the Lubbock, Texas Supercell last year, if you're in an NF T space, that piece is called breaching the void on foundation. And it was the first piece that ever sold on foundation. And so that's advanced, aka tactics. But what made that moment successful for me was the way the storm just ended up producing this gorgeous structure and the lighting that was underneath it while we had dust blowing everywhere. It really kind of symbolises what my journey has been within nursing. And my personal life. There's been a lot of a lot of things that I've been through personally, I don't talk about too much. But I've had to make a lot of sacrifices to get to where I am now. And some sacrifices were just, they were, they were very life changing. I'll just put it that way. For me seeing that storm, and just at that very moment, feeling like it was just a accumulation of all of the emotions and things I've been through. Like, I don't know how to really explain it, but it just, it was a bittersweet moment, I guess you could say, because it was everything that I had been looking for so far, with storm chasing, like, I had already photographed some beautiful supercells. But that Supercell and those 20 to 30 minutes of conditions that we had with it, were just life changing for me. And then, you know, the edit that I incorporated with it really helped to push home. What is a storm chaser, Bill, I was able to really, you know, like I said, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:35   thank you very much for being here, Justin. We I had a great time chatting with you and listening to your journey and your wisdom. So that was Justin Snead  56:43   amazing. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me on. And I've been a fan of your work for a long time. Obviously, we've talked on Instagram for what, a year or two now. Keep doing what you do, man. I love it. I love seeing your work. Did your Aurora panels are just mind blowing ly good. So I may I may need some advice here. Maybe we can do like a little trade, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:03   Yeah, man. Awesome. That would be awesome. But I appreciate your kind words very much. Thank you, Justin. All right, we can't as well. That was one awesome episode. And yeah, you can check out his work on the comment below, through different social media. But also check out you know, his printshop if that's something that you want to support him or you want it hanging on your wall, I know. He got just amazing, amazing shots of the storms that I could never dream off. Yeah, you're one of one of my favourite storm chaser there are like a good handful that like you know, truly my favourite and I truly like when I saw your photo, it was just like very different. You know, it's not only about the storm so I really love watching that from you know, from your work so, but yeah, like, if you do want to chase storm, you know, like, you just didn't say to hit him up on the tours or find other tours before you try to do it yourself. If it's especially if it's your first time. You know, not it's, I mean, it might cost you a little bit more but at the end of the day, your life is precious, more precious than money. So, but thanks a lot for tuning in. We can hunters and if you haven't already, so hit the subscribe button and hit Justin up. Say thank you if you know what he said has really resonate with you. As he's, as you said earlier, these are the things that kept us going and we really appreciate it. We'll see you guys in the next episode.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Today we have Lori Grace, also known as the “Lightning Queen”, an extreme weather photographer who is a big advocate of gender equality and underrepresented artist. We chatted about how she put herself accountable to be better by telling everyone that if she didn't get better in 2021, she was ready to let everything go and “hang up the towel” - quit. She also shares her journey in the NFT world and how she started from zero, opening Twitter space with only a few people to a point where she can reach more and more people and become one of the most respected figures in the NFT world.   You can see Lori's Genesis Piece - the photo that we were talking about on the podcast here: https://twitter.com/lorigraceaz/status/1515070519300685828?s=20&t=FRr18BeAWQnR69to7krP6A   If you want to learn more about Lori's work, you can find it here: • Website: https://www.lorigraceaz.com/ • Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/lorigraceaz • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lorigraceaz   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------- Lori Grace  0:00   I tweeted out that if I didn't Excel if I didn't, if I didn't do better this last year in 2021, than I've ever done before, as far as my chasing my photography might the quality of images, the type of extraordinary shots that I was getting, if I didn't do better than I've ever done before I was going to hang it up. I was going to hang up the towel I was gonna throw in the towel and hang it up Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:30   Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and share how photography have given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone who have been such a big support such a big figure is especially in the NFT world, as well as in photography world, her name is Laurie grace, and Laurie has been someone who is a big advocate for the underrepresented for, you know, the bipoc That woman and all the people out there that you know, do not get as much voice to be heard or, and Laurie has been really active in Twitter spaces to create this spaces for for these people. So I am so excited to Yeah, to talk to Laurie, about her journey, her photography, and how she, you know, bring and help these people who are underrepresented so that they have more space to be able to voice their, their, their messages and there are so let's get right into it. Give us a little bit background about yourself write about who you are and who, who you like to be known by other people in the industry as well as as a person. Lori Grace  2:00   Yeah, I mean, so I am, I've kind of been all over the place it through through my life and doing different things. When I was young, I always had a fascination with weather. And by the time I was in high school actually wanted to become a meteorologist and a tornado chaser back in the day before There even were there before there even was something such as a thing called storm chasers, there were pretty much tornado trackers, or whatever you want to call it. And I wanted to go to Texas Tech in in Lubbock to study and learn the science of tornadoes. But life took me a different journey. And it got married ended up, you know, ended up pursuing a degree in psychology different, you know, which is vastly different. And then from there just we ended up moving out to Arizona, over 20 years ago. And And finally, back in 2015, I became a wedding photographer, which is something I wanted to do. And once I was doing wedding, once I was shooting portraits and weddings and shooting people, I also discovered rediscovered my passion for for weather, again, especially living out here in the desert, you know, the summer storms can just be some of the most beautiful thing that you've ever seen, especially if you're standing out in the middle of the desert, at sunset, and all of the colours of that you can imagine are just filling your brain with with just this, this, this chaos of beauty. And so I decided to take those same, that same gear right, the male canon five d mark three and the lenses that I had with it, and started shooting storms with it as well when I wasn't shooting weddings. And since then that's been what I've been kind of alternating. During wedding season, I'll shoot weddings or portraits or whatever throughout the year. But then during storm season, you know, I'll either drag out to the high plains and take pictures of storms and supercells and the marvellous storms that are out there or even in eastern New Mexico and in West Texas. Or I'll wait again for the monsoon season each and every year to try and capture something extraordinary each and every day. And then last year, I jumped into you know, I jumped into NF T's I took some of that knowledge and I took the the images that I was creating. And I decided to come into and take a look at NFT because I was already into crypto a little bit. So for me, because I was already investing in crypto NF T's actually wasn't that that far of a reach and a lot of people have trouble getting their understanding their purpose and the potential for success with them as an artist as a photographer. So you know back in June, July is when I really started to look into it. And then I dropped my my first pieces on foundation last August. And I quickly sold through two or three pieces on foundation which surprised me because I really didn't know anybody. And then I spent time in the community slowly prepping my my collection. My first collection which is the passionate pursuit, and after that, yeah, I mean, I've now sold through two collections and several pieces. Excuse me In an almost another collection of time, lots of pieces on foundation. And I host spaces like crazy, just because I love it. I love this community that I'm part of. And yeah, and that's where I'm at today. And I'm looking forward to just so many people being on boarded into into crypto now and NF T's and, and I'm looking forward to storm season again to probably more than anything. I'm so ready to get back out there and chase Chase storms and do things a lot differently. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:26   That's incredible. Yeah, that's, that's really cool to see, you know, how everything can flow through. Why did you want it to do wedding photography? I'm curious. That was like, What is that one thing that makes you you know, what, I want to do wedding photography. And, you know, many people can do it for, you know, because it is a good industry to make money off. But when I listen to you, talking about your wedding photography, you really passionate about it, you really care about your your your bride and groom, and you really care about capturing those moments and being able to create a memory of a lifetime. So share us a little bit about that. That passion in wedding photography, I think you're still muted. Lori Grace  6:13   was talking Go figure. It didn't I mean, sorry. But here was you know, with wedding photography, I really enjoy taking photos of people. And ever since we had our kids and their babies, I loved just using the original canon, what was it a digital rebel x t, just such an older camera. But you know what, even those, even those cameras are taking just incredible images. So I want to do, I wanted to do something that kind of offered a little bit of a of an adrenaline rush. And that's what I love doing most about weddings is that it's not for everybody. And I jumped right into it, I did all the studying, I bought all the gear learned everything I could about off camera flash, because I just didn't I see a lot of the wedding photographers who I saw it locally, they're just flash on their camera, they're shooting weddings that way. And that is not the kind of quality I wanted to see out of out of from photography. And there are a lot of great wedding photographers who really are a master at crafting light with off camera flash, that that's something that I really, really do enjoy using is OCF. But not only that, being able to maximise the dynamic range that these cameras have. So you know, I do see a lot of wedding photographers who I think the style or the style is called light and airy. And there's generally hardly any, if you know, none, to maybe very little of off camera flash or on camera flash. And they essentially, you know, it's kind of an overexposed, slightly overexposed image, just so everything is super bright. But I don't care for that style, it's not my style. I know, it's, it's pretty much what you're gonna see on any bridal magazine that's out there, because it's such a popular style. But for me, I was always about capturing the sky, also capturing the breadth of the dynamic range and your camera. So I wanted to see shadows, I wanted to see the sky, I like a blue sky and not a white sky that you typically see in these other kinds of shots. Whether it's a blue sky, or a pink sky, or whatever is happening in the in the environment. And of course, that translates into my experience as a as a storm chaser weather photographer, you know, I want to maximise, I really want to capture everything that I can. And I'm because I really think that's important to not only properly exposed for the clients, whether it's a wedding couple or a portrait of some sort. So, so that's what I ended up, you know, making sure I expanded into using softboxes, you know, whatever tools I needed to get the shot that I was looking for, and to craft that, that's what I did. And that's where I'm at today is I still love, I'll take a softbox if I'm shooting a high school senior, for example, you know, up on a mountain like I did this past weekend, I will take the softbox with me, and I'll have a friend standing with a giant softbox just to create that light, that beautifully diffused light, and then have that sunset in the background, that golden hour down in the valley below. Just going nuts to create that, that beautiful, you know that that that beautiful extra light, that's just the that's just surrounding the client and it just makes them glow with this that extra warmth. So as you can tell I'm, I'm really technical about it all, but I just really love doing it. And that's what keeps me juices going. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:31   Yeah, that's really cool. You know, when you do something that you're passionate about, that's when you really create something truly unique, right? I think like you really have to love what you do in order to create this images. And it's interesting to hear that, you know, you you studied psychology, right, if I heard you correctly, and how did that transition to to photography, like from from psychology, like I was an engineer as well. So, you know, there's a lot of things that can I take There's a, it's always interesting to hear, like, you know, how did that kind of flow through to make to spark the interest in photography? Lori Grace  10:09   Right? Well, you know, it's the, the degree that I was going for what I originally wanted to do when I was in college was, I wanted to be an industrial Organisational Psychologist, but wanted to be able to find out how we can take care of an employee, how a business can maximise their profits by taking care of the employee first, right? If you look at it, it's always been a no brainer. And unfortunately, you still see a lot of companies operating in the opposite of the way, right, where they're kind of abusing someone where they No break for, you get back to work, you know, and they're just pushing them to the limits. And then when you look at some of the other corporate structures, like some of the companies in Japan, some of the large companies in Japan, where they would actually take a small office room where they would take a room, and they would put several chairs, it was their break room. And it was actually they were massage chairs that you could completely recline in, and the room is exceptionally dark, and they would let them power nap for 20 minutes, right, they would go in there, they would, they would put, you know, they would sit in this complete dark room and just be allowed to rest in power nap. And those those companies found out that their productivity went through the roof, by giving them the breaks that they need the rest that an employee needed, instead of how we do it in the United States where it's like, you got to work 10 hours a day, 15 hours a day, and just keep on trucking and work to your till you're exhausted each and every day for the full week. And maybe you'll get a vacation out of it. You know, when you actually look at these other companies that cause that forced their employees to take those really needed rest breaks in the middle of the afternoon, or the middle of the shift, those employees came back and excelled in their performance through the rest of the afternoon. And that was something that intrigued me, I loved the psychology of the human working spirit, if that makes any sense. And so you know, we're human, we need to take breaks, we're not robots. And when companies treat humans like robots, you're going to experience burnout, you're going to experience employee discontent, and all of that. So I really wanted to work with large companies with that. And that was where I went with a psychology degree. But I of course, I discovered that you could apply a lot of that a lot of that learning that I've done to pretty much anything it applies to anything in life. And so when I finally made it up to becoming a wedding photographer, the psychology of just taking care of your clients, you know, I was an assistant pastor also. So with church was kind of the same thing, you just you have to take care of the people, and you'll see me actually quote, I actually tweet out probably at least once a month, just the same, just a simple line that people don't care about how much you know, until they know how much you care. And to me, that's, that's so essential. In whatever you do, if I'm just a spaces host, people don't give a crap up. Until that they know that I'm I'm in it for the community, I see value in them as well. And I mean, it's really down to something simple as that is that you have to take care of whether you are a boss, then you have to take care of an employee, whether you're a parent, you have to take care of you know, your family, ever kind of relationship structures that you have, you have, it has to come from a position where you're you're giving of yourself you're providing of yourself in order to get something and in return or to even expect something positive in return, if you're looking to get a return on investment, basically. So that being said, being in spaces, I just love the community, I love being a part of this, there's something amazing to have so many people supporting me. And so I am doing these, these spaces that I hold, I just love returning the same support that's been given to me. And there's, there's just a really great cycle with that. And so I don't really use that anymore. But what I do, as a wedding photographer, I do still use that principle, that same principle, when I'm actually directing a client, right? Like, I just want to make sure that I do everything that I can to make them feel comfortable and focused on each other. And if I can disappear as a photographer, and help the couple to connect, then those authentic moments are really going to be what really sells my work. So being able to capture an authentic moment is is the is the is the best thing you can do as a wedding photographer. And so that's what I strive to achieve. And I really love doing that. And I love the clients their images from any kind of session, whether it's an engagement, whatever it would be, and to see just the smile on their faces knowing that capture, you know, real moments is is there's nothing Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:46   Yeah, that's really cool. I think you know, this is why it's really good to kind of hear people background and you know where how they can get to where they are today because it really makes sense right when I hear you talking about your your client's as wedding photographer, I can see how much you care about it. And you know, when you're in spaces, I can also see how much you, you know, try to uplift each other and care about other people mental health, as well as you know, their successes. And this is, this is why like you this, this, this was your whole purpose altogether. And I think that is really cool to finally learn that, you know, I always love to learn what it is that that drives them. And when you learn that you can see that everything that person do comes back to that one purpose. So that's really cool to be able to, to know that all of you. Now, I know you from your striking shots, and no pun intended there. Because I love lightning as well. It's exhilarating. You know, the feeling when you see those lightning strikes, and especially when you capture one on camera is just so addictive. What, how did you so you said that, you know, at one point, as a wedding photographer, you were able to rediscover your passion for weather, and you can tie that into photography, and you start taking photo of the storms and everything right? So how did that spark like? How did how did you manage to rediscover that passion for photography and decided to, you know what, I'm going to chase the storms. Lori Grace  16:24   You know, it all it all started with, with the reinvestment into the new camera equipment. Because I've always I've always been just enjoying the storms living out where I live. But I really didn't have a means, you know, taking a picture with my old, we're not talking about the new iPhones, right? Or the new, the new Samsung Galaxy fold. We're talking about the old phones, where you take a picture and it would be so pixelated, and just wasn't worth keeping, trying to take a picture of a sunset. Like you're standing there. How many times have you seen pictures, people post pictures of the Moon from with their phone, especially 510 15 years ago, like, oh my gosh, the sunset was amazing. When you look at Facebook, and you're like, that is the most hideous photo I've ever seen. And then you just go Oh, I'm so glad you enjoying the sunset. You know, it just didn't translate, right. And that's what I love about about just investing when I first invested in my first camera, my first DSLR I should say, professional body DSLR. I did have a seven Ed before that. And it was a great camera. When I got the five d mark three, and the sigma 50 millimetre F 1.4 Art lens, I tell you what, there was no looking back, you know, it was once you go once you go full frame, there's, you know, you don't go back. And so I just love that the beauty and the quality of of a full frame image and capturing that. I don't know, I really do. It's, it's almost sick, like I have an addiction to wanting to capture photos and my love for photography really grew. So back in 2015, when I started the wedding, the wedding business, the wedding photography business, when the storms were there, it was like, Okay, now I have this drive, to relearn a lot of the forecasting that I needed to do, because you don't just wait for a storm to pop up. And just go outside and take a picture that that's a disgusting, terrible way to storm Chase. But to be able to figure out where you're going to be, and to maybe find locations where you can position overlooking a valley if you can, as the storm comes in, off of the mountain peaks, and drifts into the valley towards you, and all of that all of that takes so much work and effort and driving for hundreds and 1000s of miles just to finally get into that position, only to find out that the storm doesn't pop out anything, you know, anything worth even capturing other than maybe a few clouds over a mountain peak. So, you know, the agony of defeat is much greater when you're storm chasing, because you're not always there might look like I have, like I go out there every single day and, and just scoop up success with my images. But that's not the reality. The reality is you've got to just grind each and every day. And more often than not, you're going to come home with nothing, nothing that you want to even share. So, you know, so you learn to enjoy the journey like I have, and I'll have my dogs with me and there's nothing like it even if I don't get anything. You know, I still spent an afternoon driving 300 miles into the desert or maybe into the, into the foothills of a mountain range in southeastern Arizona where the grass or you get to see the cattle and there's nobody around for 3040 miles. You know and just to be at peace with that. There's something really cathartic about being out there storm chasing, and even coming back with zero because you really don't come back with zero if you have that perspective. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:37   That is awesome. Laurie, I think you know, a lot of us, especially the newer photographer really need to understand because you know, they look at Instagram and I mean I get these comments all the time. It's just like wow, you always captured this I was like no, it's like you don't know how many times I went back to that place driving you know how many hours hoping for something and I got nothing and That's exactly it. You know, I love that you share that. I mean, like, I did that a lot with Aurora chasing in Canadian Rockies. And, you know, a lot of people can say like, wow, you Oh, like you captured a lot of origins like now just out of law. So that's, that's it right? You gotta increase your chance to capture it. I mean, yeah, the planning needs to happen as well. But if you don't go out, you're not gonna get it, you get it. Lori Grace  20:30   You're not going to catch the storm? If you don't if you don't even leave the house. That's very true. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:34   Yeah, that's awesome. I think you know, it's really powerful, and also translate to a lot of the human. So the mental health issue that we are having is that when we go out there, we have a certain expectation, right. And when we don't get that most people get angry or resentful about what they've done. But if you can enjoy the journey, then that's when you actually just enjoy it. And that's, that's great. Thanks for sharing that was I just lost my train of thought that is, that was a really good point that you brought up, Lori Grace  21:07   you just have to take a chance on it. Even if you think that there's only a 2% 2% chance of capturing something extraordinary. Guess what, if you don't go out, there is a 0% chance of you capturing anything extraordinary. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:20   That's it. And I think that is the difference when you really enjoy what you do versus when you just do it for the sake of doing it. Right. Because when you really enjoy what you do, you're passionate about it, you want you know that 2% is a massive fuel, right. But when you're you know, just doing it for the sake of it, you want that serve a certain expectation that it's gonna get met. So. So if you were to look back, what are some of the biggest struggles or challenges that you have come across to get to where you are today? Lori Grace  21:52   Oh, gosh, first of all, finances are a huge challenge, right? If you don't have the money for the gear, you might just be stuck using your phone. Looking back on it, though, you know, I'm still glad that I would, I would use whatever kind of gear I had in my hand. You know, like I said before, that old Canon digital rebel that I spent $600 for at the time, back in 2002, or 2003. That was a lot of money for me back then. And even that that crappy old 50 millimetre What is it the 18 to 55 millimetre kit lens was such a trashy plastic lens that doesn't even give you the potential to see what you can do even with that kind of camera, and slowly bought a couple of different lenses for it 70 to 300. And I loved that little piece. And it was just, you know, the biggest challenges were the financial thing, just being able to save up when you're not doing it professionally to, to continue to pursue that passion. So I was always taking a little bite into photography, one thing at a time, like I started from zero, and I was a wedding photographer, there was, there was a build up to it. And you just, you know, you save up for it. If you care about something, you're gonna save up for it. And that's what I was doing. So finding, finding the time and the money to be able to slowly build up a collection, not a collection of lenses, but two or three good lenses. And then I finally upgraded at the time, you know, what was it about 2013 I would say is when I got the Canon seven DD and that was a huge step up, especially with the video capabilities and using dual pixel autofocus, and a lot of the great features that are 70 D would would provide, but even a seven ad at night. didn't cut it for for any kind of Astro because I didn't have anything wider than like an F four lens or an F five F 6.3 lens or whatever it was. And so I guess one of the bigger biggest barriers was just having the fight the fight the the finances to afford the better gear. But even then, you know, I used what I had, and I still love doing what I what I did with uh, now it's funny because now I shoot with a lot of Sony's I have four Sony cameras, including the eighth one. And people tell me Oh, I have Lori's there's an old Canon 60 D, and I'm like, Give me that 60 D and I'll shoot the shit out of a wedding. If I had to. I promise you I would I could get some banger shots. I could shoot with a 60 D with the right lens. I could kill the Milky Way with that I could get some kick ass Milky Way shots, you just get to know how to do it. And you can't be afraid to use whatever tool is in your hand. And so even sometimes when I see a sunset, one of my most viral images was from an iPhone of a lenticular cloud at sunset and it was all pink. It looked like a huge it looked like a huge cotton candy ball, right? And it was it was moving over the mountain near where I live, and that the horizon was horrible. There's all these mosquitoes ugly mesquite trees. So there's nothing beautiful, beautiful about the horizon. But that little iPhone at the time captured such depth of the colour of the pink in the sky. And of course you know, the time lapse of the sunset. I can't actually using the the Canon YB mark three, that nobody gave a crap about that everybody loved that peak lenticular cloud. Online. You know, I think that that had, I can't remember how many 1000s of views and, and retweets and all of that stuff and comments. And then of course, I post the time lapse that I had, that the reason I was there, which was the time lapse of the sunset, and I think he got like 100 views on total. So you never know, you know, you never know what the sky is going to provide for you. And if you have an iPhone, use your iPhone, use the tools that you have with you at the time. Yeah, that's, that's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:33   a really good advice. I mean, like, especially with the, you know, the technology that the iPhone have today, right now, you could take a pretty good night shot, handheld, it's crazy. And like, I think a lot of a lot of photographers doesn't realise as well, especially the ones that are quite new to the, you know, to the genre is that when you capture with a lesser quality camera, there are different ways to push that limit, right, with post processing and all that stuff. And I'm not even talking about, you know, compositing or anything like that, but you could clean up a lot of that photo by by working on it on a post. So, yeah, that's a really good advice there. Laurie, what are some of the things that you know, kept you going through all this? You know, I know that I'm pretty sure that you have a lot of things that stop you from where you want to go from where you are, to where you want it to go? Right? I mean, especially with, you know, with a wedding, you know, getting started with the wedding couldn't be easy, as well as with storm chasing, you know, like, I remember when I tried to learn all this, the forecasting, I was just like, wow, what is all this? So what are some of the things that keep you inspired and keep you going? And when you have that low point in your life where you know, like, you feel like you can't do it, or you're unworthy of it? What do you do to push past that? And, and, you know, get to where you are today. Lori Grace  27:02   That's a tough one. Because there's so many different things. There's so many different forces at play, that try to ruin you. Sometimes it could be somebody who was a gaslighter, right? Someone who's telling you that, that you're a piece of crap, or it just in a subtle way tell you that your storm images and that you're forecasting and that you're always doing the wrong thing. And that was something I dealt with, even as recently as a year ago. And that was huge. It had been just such a defeating mindset that I felt I just didn't feel like I would ever measure up to anybody else. And wow, what a lie. You know what I mean? Looking back on, like, if I could tell Laurie from a year ago, I would say, Are you kidding me? What do you take a look at your work? How could you believe that? How can you believe the lie that somebody else is trying to tell you look at look at the truth, face the truth, you have been kicking ass for a long time, but you've only been getting better, you did start off, you know, look back, when you look back at your first photos, right? Like my first song chasing photos. Oh my gosh, they're embarrassing. You know, but at the time, I was so excited that I captured lightning, you know, and that I edited Super Bowl into into the photo and oversaturated it and the focus was completely blurry, I was still excited. But over time, you start to I think, I think more than anything, you end up defeating yourself, whether you give in to somebody's you know, gaslighting or people who are trying to be gatekeepers, those types of things, you know, those are all just constructs. You know, if someone can convince you that you're a piece of crap, then you really do have to look inside yourself. And it took me it took me jumping into NF T's and getting crapped on for me to finally be able to break free from that. And now I look back and I'm just I feel the self confidence, self doubt and this lack of self worth, in what I was doing. I have no idea why I was so down on myself, like I really do. That's one of the biggest things. You hear me in spaces now. And I'm all excited and yeah, I'm such a badass, you know, it's not me. It's not, it's never been me to have that kind of bullish attitude on myself. But it was being in spaces like this and listening to just inspiring people like Jack Cordell saying be bullish on yourself, you know, and that realness of things when others finally see how genuine you are and how awesome you are, and you finally stopped to believe it yourself. And that just sparked something, and it heals a lot of those wounds. And so I would say that the biggest barriers wasn't the knot wasn't the ability to have, you know, just have to save up for extra lenses. It was the ability to believe in yourself that really was the biggest limiting factor. Because if you have the greatest lenses, and you're still out there killing it, and it takes and people are are trying to cut you down and you believe it. You know what eliminate you what a limiter you know you're trying to be you're trying to overcome things, but when you don't see your own and potential and how, what an amazing journey you've you've been through, you know, that it's, it's such a blinder you know how they put blinders on horses? Right? You know, once you take the blinders off of my eyes, you know, once people in this space can just poured their love and their, their, their support into me, and were able to kind of grab me by the head, right, force me to look back on my own work and see how far I've come. You know, wow, it's just and I think that that's such a limiter to all of us, you know, to finally, cause me cause caused me to stop looking at everybody else and comparing myself to others, and just missing things missing out, and being upset that somebody else succeeded. And of course, we are happy when people succeed. But at the same time, it's like, when is my time ever gonna come? And just focusing on those things, that's not important, your successes already come? You're already successful. And it's just a matter of time for other people to see that, whether it's a collector, or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. For me, my success? Isn't the sales that I've made in NF T's. My success isn't the people that I've met. I have to admit, when I look back, if I if I were to look back and write a book right now, the story where to end, right now, I would say that my biggest success is oh, sorry, my headphones cut out. Yeah. So I would just say that, you know, that my biggest biggest success has been the relationships that have been forged over the, you know, through the fire of NF T's over the last six months. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:31   Yeah, that's really cool. Um, yeah, I mean, like, it's funny, because for a lot of people looking from the outside, I know, like, you know, I have a few artists friend, and they try to, you know, onboard, it's like, you gotta jump in here. And you know, it's a beautiful community. And we have like, a massive future for it. Like, it's a big potential of what you can do, whether you want to share your art, or you want to use it for a different good causes. There's so many different applications that you can do with NFT. And they were looking from the outside saying, like, Yeah, but just don't like the grind of, you know, like, you have to do this. And it's like, no, you don't have to do that. Like, it's your choice. But you know, when you're a part of a community, and it's, it's like, if you have a friend and a family that you know, in real life that you really close to, you want to cheer them on, and you want to share their wins. It's not like it's a grind. It's a human nature that we want to be happy for our friends and family that we care about. And, yeah, that's, I think that's really interesting to be able to see that some people have that perspective of people on Twitter or spending, you know, time here, because they have to end it when it gets sale. And probably there are some people who are doing that, but I feel like you know, they are, the core community doesn't do it for that purpose. You know, they are genuinely there to support you and not looking for anything in return. And I think that's what's beautiful about this community. But yeah, thanks for sharing that. Laurie. So do you have any other like, you have any shots that you're like, that is your favourite? I know, like you have a lot of amazing shot. And it's really a hard question. But is there like one, it doesn't have to be your your best one. But just like what the most? Yeah. And is that the most memorable one as well? Absolutely. Okay. Do you want to share like the story behind that? Or do you have that in, in your tweet that you can pin tweet so that we all can look at it? Well, you telling the story Lori Grace  33:36   bookmark? Cool? No, this is this is going to be the podcast, so people won't be able to necessarily see it. But it is my Genesis piece last year. Last year, I actually tweeted out somewhere in like talking to you the same time. But last year, I tweeted out that it was somewhere like around in March, or what was in March or April, or somewhere around, somewhere around there. I tweeted out that if I didn't Excel if I didn't, if I didn't do better this last year in 2021, than I've ever done before. As far as my chasing my photography, might the quality of images, the type of extraordinary shots that I was getting, if I didn't do better than I've ever done before, I was going to hang it up, I was going to hang up the towel, I was gonna throw in the towel and hang it up. And people of course, were like, No, don't say that. That's such a negative thing that I'm like, No, I'm not being negative. I just need to, I need something to take a risk. I need to I need something to push myself. And so I'm telling myself that if I'm being serious about it and telling you all to put it on line that if I don't, if I don't do better than I've ever done before, if I don't push myself, then I quit. I'm not going to do it anymore. I would still be shooting weddings, because that's a business but I would be done chasing I would be done trying to capture something extraordinary. And, you know, I pushed myself I knew I knew that I had to one up myself. And so this past year I If I would, if there was even a point 02 chance of there being a thunderstorm out and out within a 300 mile radius, I would get in my car, I didn't care if I only got two hours of sleep, throw the dogs in the Honda Pilot, and go for a drive until I finally saw something. And I, you know, I've, I've learned how to target monsoon storms quite well at this point, which is not easy to do, because they're just, they just kind of pop up seemingly at random. But there's actually a huge skill that goes into kind of figuring out where they're going to pop up. And so, this particular shot up this that little, if you're looking at the photo, and I know, in the podcast, people weren't gonna be able to see that. But that little goldfish looking cloud on the left is known as a as a mezzo cyclone, it's actually a little Supercell, the kind of storm that you see out on the Great Plains, a rotating storm is all it is. And so that little storm came off of the mountains, and I have positioned myself, as you can see, by the photo, there is nothing, there's nothing blocking the image of the storm here. And what you can see on the right is, is golden hour, right, you can see the sun, fiery red colour has been pushed in on the left and on to the left. And then on the left side, you have blue our creeping in and you have that bluish colour. And right in between these were these massive strikes just reigned over this, this valley. And what people don't know in this image is it right behind me, I'm standing on a bridge, you know that that goes over this river. And right behind me are these is a huge power plant. And some of the some of the poles go up as high as 5070 feet, maybe 100 feet, I'm guessing it's one of those huge power lines that go through the dug. And it was just completely dropping element. So to position myself where I did to capture the colours and the sun, I challenge anybody else who, because I've been told the same thing by other people that that's probably the best shot of lighting they've ever seen. And it's definitely the best shot I've ever captured. I have refused to make this a composite. You know, some people have told me Well, you know, if you if you if you, you know, maybe put a castle or a Pegasus in there, you know, that would make it more sellable, you know, and then I'm like, No, this is a real freaking picture, you have no idea what went into this, this was all six years of storm chasing that has gone into my brain. And to be able to get to this spot to see to know that this little storm was going to spit that little cloud was spitting out these bolts was responsible for creating these bolts. And I ended up capturing this in a time lapse too. And I have this in a time lapse, I have not meant at the time lapse. And when I posted this, I have since increased this, this is my Genesis piece. And I've since decreased it to 30 eath. And when I'm laughed at by people that I'm being, you know, ridiculous, I just point people to, you know, the fact that if you're gonna look at PFPs, you know, if an ape can sell for however many eath. But not only that, look at look at Blue Chip photographers like Justin Asano, and drift and Kasam Ward, they're selling pieces for 100. Eve. So I don't ever want to be told by anybody how to price my work. Granted, this photo might not sell for a while, but I'm okay with that. And I just don't care. I'm not here, it's not up for discussion. It's not up here for negotiation. I do have a lot of pieces when I launched my collections that are averaging about point three right now. And I sold pieces in my last collection, that people were laughing at me that where I had listed them at one each, and the collection sold out and people at the very end came in and swept the rest of those one eath. So I had three photos of lightning, going through rate a double rainbow, and all three of those different shots got picked up within two days. So you know, I just I don't like having that discussion about pricing, because it's about worth. And if it even if those didn't sell, I would still be holding on to that because I know, I know. And if anybody wants to find out how hard it is to capture what I do, that's what I would tell them here's the story, and here's why it is priced out and if you don't like it, don't buy it, but this is where I'm at. And of course I do provide other shots that are a little more approachable, which is why I do have an addition piece of a banger of a shot that's been doing extremely well. That's a lot of stuff but that's my favourite shot. Absolutely. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:14   Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, like just that whole you know the lights between the golden hour and the blue hour and half the strike the lightning striking in the middle of it and you capture it really well that you know you manage to preserve all the details because especially right in the middle there where you know the where it actually strikes it's always difficult to to be able to preserve that and I know I have a lot of shot lightning shots where when lightning like this happen. You just lose a lot of details in that area. We get to go into a little bit detail here but how do you make that happen and And, you know, what are some of the trial and error that you have to go through to get there, especially when you do a time lapse, because you know, when you do the time lapse, you do like an hour or 30 minutes of it, and you just hope that it goes, All right? Lori Grace  40:14   Well, and that's the trick to storm chasing, or at least to capturing lightning is knowing where to put your aperture when taking the shot. Because I guarantee you when I saw this, right around the same time, some of the other bolts that were landing, were of similar brightness, and, and a couple of drove up to me, and they're like, What is going on. And I was like, Look at this, you don't need to understand what you're looking at here. It's a rare kind of storm that we see here in Arizona. And they were just marvel, you know, it was like they were looking at a spaceship entering Earth. And to see that on their eyes. And the excitement was incredible. It was incredible. But as a photographer, not only did I have to position and do all the forecasting, and get to the right spot right at sunset, and be in the right position at the right time. But now I had to get my cameras out, I was shooting two cameras, on tripods. And I had to make sure that those settings and that I had nailed focus, you know what I mean? I didn't, there was no autofocus, everything was manual focus. And so I had to also make sure that my aperture was going to be closed down enough so that when this bright bolt just flew out of the sky and landed on the ground, that it wasn't blown out. Because if you're shooting at f 2.8, F four, F 5.6, F 6.3, I can assure you, if I had done that the shot would have been overexposed. But without the lightning, it would have just been a really dark shot at those F stops even. But so I had to step down to, I don't even remember, I'd have to look at the settings, I think it was F 7.1 Maybe F eight, where I shot this out, I'd have to look at the metadata again. That's something that you just have to see on the spot and make the adjustment and hope for the best because sometimes there are bolts that will be so bright, that they'll even be overexposed. That f 13 You know, and that stomped down a lot. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:05   Yeah, so you basically have to underexposed the shot, right? But you say you were capturing the time lapse so how do you do that because you know, when you do the time lapse, everything else is gonna be just dark when you underexposed the shot, or do you have like two different camera with a different exposure? Lori Grace  42:21   Yeah, so the other camera that I'm so this shot wasn't done with time lapse, this was done with a lightning trigger. So you know, I can adjust my settings, and my shutter speed I think was about 1/15 of a second. And capturing lightning actually doesn't isn't about under exposing the shot as it is about adjusting the light that comes in when it comes in. I like to liken it to if you know how to use off camera flash, you know that if you're going to use off camera flash, the first thing you're going to do is dial in your ambience, right and you do that by using shutter speed. So it's it's amazing how my wedding photography has helped me to becoming a better storm photographer. Because if you know about using off camera flash, you're going to have to adjust your shutter speed before you even bring in any kind of off camera flash. So you know, if I want the ambient, if I want to capture the candles in the background, or the lights or whatever of a of an event, I'm going to want to make sure that my shutter is open to maybe 1/30 of a second, maybe boost my ISO 115 1/20 You know, yeah, now you're gonna have to worry about embodied stabilisation or whatnot, or a tripod. But then you're going to, you know not to maybe boost your ISO a little bit, but your flash is entirely dependent on your aperture. So if I then bring in off camera flash at one one of one power, and I take that picture and my aperture is F 1.2. Guess what, you're just going to blow out your hole, you're gonna blow out the entire image. And so that's where you start adjusting your aperture to dial in the kind of power that of light power to properly expose your subject. This is this is kind of photography, one on one off camera flash photography, one on one. And so I'll dial in my shutter speed if I can, maybe 1/15 of a second during this late golden hour early, early blue hour image, maybe 1/25 of a second somewhere around there, but then I will have my aperture, I'll need my aperture to be a safe bet would have been F 11. But then the bolts wouldn't have been so bright, if that makes any sense. If I was at F 2.0, F 2.8, the bolts would have been well overexposed and you wouldn't have been able to recover those highlights. So there has to be a technical medium and you just have to it comes with experience over time when you are shooting on this on the fly. And you're you're hauling butt spot to another to get to storm because we're also moving so you only have a very short window of time to find a spot that you can you can capture it get your camera set up, adjust your settings and hope that your aperture is the right setting so that when the boat does flash, you're not over exposing underexposing You know, when if you underexposed too much, then your bolt is just underwhelming and it just looks like any other bolt that anybody else captured. So there's a little bit of finesse to it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:10   And that is why I asked the question because, you know, a lot of people can think and see, you know, this kind of shot or, you know, any other photos and feel like it's, it takes, you know, it's like, you just, you just hit that button. You know, it's not that hard. But the thing is, you know, it takes a lot of practice a lot of failures, a lot of trial and error to be able to know exactly what you need to be doing at that particular moment, when you add a flash, second, right, especially when you're capturing storms, like everything changes all the time, but when changes the direction where it hits the ground is always different. And a lot of people kind of just think that that's not hard. And you know, when when people see that, that's usually where art get undervalue. But you say yourself that it takes you a lot of trial and error you takes you time, where you just go out there over and over again, and just try to find that one strike. And you know, that that is all the effort that we put into as a photographer to be able to capture what we love. And yeah, thanks for sharing that glory. That is, it's really, I think it's really eye opening for people to be able to see that. Do you have any bucket list shot that you want to capture or your type of? Okay, cool. Tell us about that. Lori Grace  46:29   Absolutely. So I actually saw a picture of a friend of a fellow storm chaser friend, he's actually done it, he has a Netflix show. And it's very popular does a podcast as well. Greg Johnson, he shared a picture, I think it was in the United States of a tornado, a very dusty, dirty looking tornado, you know, picking up a lot of dirt, just so you can see the entire vortex. And it's those kinds of tornadoes that aren't that aren't just, you know, low and contrast. But this is very clear that you can see and it's exciting to look at, but he also captured a bolt of lightning going right through that dirty tornado, and it is the most incredible thing I've ever seen. And I tell myself one of these days, I'm gonna get a picture of lightning going through a tornado. And then I'm just going to take the rest of my cameras and donate them because I'll be done. You'll be so excited, I'll probably just be ready to call it quits at that point. So that's my bucket list. But the other thing I love to capture are something known as TL E's. They're also known as transient luminous events. And what they are is, you know, at the nighttime, during storms that are huge, large storm complex is known as mezzo scale, kind of convective systems. Basically, they're the ones that just they can span hundreds of miles. And it's a line of storms. And those storms often produce larger bolts of lightning, call them positively charged lightning. And above those strikes when you when, when you see a positively charged lightning bolt, which accounts for probably anywhere between one to 2% of all lightning, when that happens. Above in the upper atmosphere and actually into space. What happens is, there is a discharge above the clouds. And that is known. Sometimes, you see them known as red sprites, which I've captured, and the one that I captured last year, which I have yet to mince, maybe for super rare or something. But there, it's been known that there are only about 100 images of something called Blue jets. So imagine, like at the top of a thunderstorm, a picture, a picture of someone squirting this bluish purplish colour of neon light into the upper atmosphere above a cloud that you can only see at the highest highest aperture opening and or the video setting, with very, very, very wide aperture, very good equipment, high sensor capable equipment. And so that night last year, in addition to this shot, I captured another 10 Blue jets shooting up over a couple a system 100 miles from me. And it was the most beautiful thing that I've ever captured. It's just as purple colour of light that emanates above a storm on the darkest of nights, and you need all of that to happen. And I killed it. I nailed it. And I got it in video and I have a hole of five or 10 minutes of this happening on video. And I may release that as an NFT one of these days, but that's gonna go for a shit tonne of money. Just because it's so rare. And what I what I dislike most about it is that I got paid extremely low when I went to sell the footage to the media for this extremely rare event to capture. They paid me breadcrumbs for it. And so when I look at why nfts For me, you know and I get paid extremely well for my photography and for what it takes to capture my work and I see that people are willing to pay what I believe It's worth it, it's just a no brainer for me, I'm so sick of getting taken advantage of by these companies that are going to go on to market the hell out of that rare footage, but only pay me, you know, pennies for, for what I've done and all the effort I put into it. And so when it comes down to the why, and why don't we didn't discuss that, but that's the why. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:19   that was gonna be my next question. So I'm glad that you mentioned that. But like, so, I mean, like, you know, like, going into NFT. You know, like, it's a lot easier, like you say, because you already in the crypto space, and you're already an investor in the crypto. But there's a lot of people who are quite sceptical about it. So, you know, I know, you kind of say that, that's the why you got into NFT but maybe elaborate a little bit? Is that the only reason why you got into NFT? Or is there another reason? You know, I know that being able to be good, like, to be able to sell your or, Yes, I guess sell your art, that that's what we think is worth is a big thing in this space. But what are what are some of the other reason that that makes you that brought you into the space? Lori Grace  51:15   You know, if it weren't for Jessica Moore, and guys, you know, like Justin Snead, who were already here before me and, and getting into NF Ts and, and kind of helping pave the way I don't know if I would have done it because I didn't have an example I didn't see to the other side of the bridge. And I think that's important to, to look back on because now I find myself on this side of the bridge, and a lot of other people are looking at us going, you know, how how's it looking over there? Are you getting assaulted? Are you being that? You know, are you being harassed is you know, are you killing the planet? What's going on over there? And I think it's up to us to say, Come on in the water's fine. But here are some things that you need to know. You know, I really think it's imperative that people know that it's not all that everything's not always coming up roses, you know, FOMO if you're an artist and you you struggle with FOMO, guess what, you're going to feel a lot worse here. Unless you do what I think I like to say this to answer your question, I came for the coin, but I stayed for the community. Right? You know, I saw the potential to be able to sell my work through my photography through as an NFT. And I ended up finding just an incredible community that stood by me, that shored me up when I was discouraged, and, and don't get me wrong. Like I said before, I am not my entire life, I have struggled with self worth. And to this day, I have to admit, I don't struggle with that today, it's probably a new horizon. For me, it's a new dawn for me, which is so unreal. And I have to thank the community for being there for me to help, you know, the friends and the bombs that I've made. So I really do think that the the best thing about this, this whole thing is the community that that's around, there are there are nefarious people who don't give two craps about you. And that's okay, too. But there, there is a tribe out there for everybody. And I really believe that, you know, if you stick to that tribe, you're going to make it in the space. So, yeah, so I'm here for the community at this point. That's what I love most. And I like to sell an NFT you know, not gonna lie. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:21   That's, that's, that's awesome to hear. Yeah, I think, you know, it's, I don't think this has been done before, right? To be able to connect in, like, through voice, I mean, club has kind of initiate that. But you know, like, I never met you. And I feel like I know you like you just a friend because he just listened to your voice over and over again and hear your perspectives, your your, your thoughts on things. And I think that's what's really cool about this space. And that's why, you know, we spend a lot of time in this space, because it's like, we're hanging out with friends here. So I totally agree with that. I think it's really cool to be to be here and to be part of it. And sometimes I just wish, I have a clone. It couldn't be on Twitter and could go on adventure at the same time. But I don't want to take up too much of your time, and we're coming to an hour now. One of the things that I really want to get your take on I know you're a massive, massive advocate on this, and I know that it's it's something that artists and human in general struggle with, right, being able to being able to handle that self worth being able to push past their, their self limiting belief, you know, to lift their self back up when they're down. When you know, when people crush you and stuff like that, and I know you know, following your journey, I know that you you kind of it's really cool that you really open about it when you're feeling down and you tell everyone that you know what, I just need space and I'm dealing with this and I think that's really inspiring because when you hear when we hear you talk, it's as if you had it figured out right? But what One thing that I'd love to learn and for you to share is that, what are some of the things that you do in order to overcome this feeling in order to come to the other side of it, and, you know, be able to push through this self limiting belief that stop you from getting to where you want it to be? Lori Grace  55:21   No, that's a tough thing, you know, it's really going to come down to, even though people are there for you, you know, you can have your family like my wife, who has been my support, and she's at my side, sometimes I'll be in a space, and we're just sitting down, she's watching TV or whatever. And I'm just sitting sitting on the bed together, and we're just chilling. And, you know, she's listening in sometimes. And, you know, she's my support, and my rock, but the community has been there for me also. But guess what, after all that said and done, they can't be there for you. They can't, they can't show up for you. At the end of the day, you really have to make the decision to show up for yourself each and every day. And it's tough. You know, you want to give up, you want to quit, you've cried already, when nobody's looking. Ill like you're just, oh, that feeling I know. It's not just a bruising feeling. It is crushing. My closest friends know that I know what that that feels like. And so I don't know, I don't know if that makes it relatable. But I can see you in the dark as what I'm trying to say. Because I was there too. And I've been there way, way too many times. But it really does take after all that said and done. You know, when tomorrow comes, you just have to choose to step up and say, I'm going to show up for myself today. And I'm going to I'm going to do it again. Because I had another chance I breathing up here, the sun rose. So I'm gonna get after it again. And the when I'll finally have stopped losing the chance, you know, I'll finally lose the chance when I finally stopped breathing. And so I've got another breath in my lungs. So let's get it done. You know, if there's a 2% chance for success, then there's a chance for success. So let's get after it. And if you don't make it that day, guess what, there's another day. And it's okay to not be okay. I know it sounds so cliche. But it's so important to just understand. When you're not feeling it, that's okay, break away, step away from your phone, get out and do what you love and create and get back to doing, you know, the very thing that you're creating, you know, get back out and create. So I don't know if that's my best advice. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:27   Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Laurie. I know, the one quote that really stuck with me was when you're tired, you rest you don't quit. And you only quit when you only you only fail when you quit. And I think you know, you summed that up really well to, you know, give yourself a break. Give yourself some love. And you know, at the end of the day, if that's something that you really love, then you don't really want to quit anyway, just want to keep going. So yeah, thanks a lot for sharing that. Laurie, it's been great talking to you. Learning about your your story. And you know, learning why you care so much about people. I think that's really cool. To learn that. That's that's the very first time i i heard that. You were you were a psychology psychologists. But yeah, it really is you can read I can, like you can really see how you care about the community or care about people and other people well being. So that's amazing. Now, would you like to share, you know, a project or a piece that that you want to that people want to kind of see if they haven't met you yet? So that, you know, they can see the amount of work? I know you already share your Genesis piece earlier. And but is there any other project that you want to share with the rest of the world before we close this to an end? Lori Grace  58:48   You know, I think if people just wanted to go to my link tree, I have so much now that I've shared and I'm actually working on something. My pin tweet is actually something that I'm doing now, I actually want to change the way I do things when it comes to my ability to affect change. And I started I started a new collection on open sea. This is an addition to other projects, I'm working on my new and I don't care about scarcity and all that crap. There's no rulebook for me, right? Like, oh, well, collectors aren't gonna want to buy, but whatever, you know, I'm not here to attempt to follow old rules. But I started a new collection, it's just a one, I'm only gonna drop one at a time. It's called the elevation project. And every single NFT that I dropped, it's going to be one at a time, once once that sells that. I'm dedicating, dedicating 50% of that sale to an organisation that uplifts women that elevates women that supports women, nonprofits, whether it's in real life or if it's if it's if it's a woman led project or non binary project, you know, in web three, and I want to just make those donations because a couple of weeks ago, there was there was some basically there was someone there had said some transphobic homophobic things. And it just kind of stunned to see that people are still out there in this space doubling down on that kind of hate. And I just decided that I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna be angry about it anymore, people are telling me Screw that guy, Laurie, you don't need them, you know, we'll take care of them. And I don't I don't want that kind of action anymore. I think the best reaction is to take a good action for the positive. So what I did a couple of weeks ago, I just took a piece that I was going to drop on, like upcoming Slyke a collection. And I took it and I put it on a foundation, I listed it for point to eat. And I just said, whatever the final purchases, or whatever the final bid is on this, I'm going to take it all. And I'm going to donate it to an outright International, which is a huge LGBTQIA advocacy group worldwide advocacy group. And the final bid was to eat. And I took after foundation took their slice of the pie. That was something like 1.75 eath. And I made that donation straight to outright international again. And that's like, at the time, it was what 69 $7,200 worth of eath. And wow, that felt so good, you know, to be able to do that. So I decided what I'm gonna do with the elevation project is I'm just gonna list one on ones, and they're going to be reasonably priced, it's not going to be two or five eath projects, they're just going to be simple pieces of shots that I really value. And when they sell, I'm going to take half of that sale and give it to one of many projects that I want to give to you that I just have in mind. And I just want to, I want to do that, because that's what I want to see, I want to see I want to do things differently. And if this becomes successful, then I can start to constantly give at least with this particular collection, I can make make giving a bigger part of of my own journey in NF Ts. So as much as I've received, I can also give back. And so y

I've just finished MCing NFT Bali 2022 as a representation from The Wicked Hunt but also from the Photography community. While it's still fresh in my mind, I thought, why not put out a podcast on NFT and how it applies to photography and other art? NFT had been one of the biggest trending searches on google not long ago. Many people jump into NFT, some thrive and made a lot of money, but some are scammed and lost a lot of money. So what is NFT? How can it be leveraged, and how will it change the world for artists? I've spent about a year hanging out on Twitter space and clubhouse to learn what is NFT. At first, I thought it was a quick cash grab scheme, but the more I immersed myself in it, the more I fell in love with it.  The possibilities are endless, and I can start imagining how will it apply to The Wicked Hunt and its future brand.  It's a new technology, a new ideology and a new opportunity. It's exciting! You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, come and join me and decide for yourself.  But there's always more than the surface.  If you're interested in getting access to my NFT and how I use it to help me fulfilled my mission...  Where it has become a representation of a journey to living the best life, you can go to the link below: https://opensea.io/collection/thewickedhunt https://foundation.app/@thewickedhunt Adventure of A Life Time - NFT Collection A Symbol of "A Journey To Living The Best Life" ------  Collectors will get: Customised airdrop for the next 3 collectors - (Value of 0.2 ETH)            + 1 Hour 1 on 1 session - (Value of $350) 16" x 24" Canvas Print - (Value of $237) 8" x 8" photobook (Canada, Australia, Indonesia) - (Value of $600)               + ​10% off future collection pre-sale (you will get notified for upcoming artwork to be minted & have pre-sale discount exclusive to collectors) Exclusive access to future NFT Events Exclusive access to future products like Two Red Tabs Photography backpack ------  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers. --------------------- Transcription: Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:00   and some people just think it's a big scam so hey, we care hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share photographers journey as well as topics on photography and how photography giving us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, I do not have anyone with me, I don't have any guests. It's just me, myself and I, but I want to talk to you about an F D, what is NFT? Why NFT? Is it a scam? And I know there are, you know, a few sites in the US some people absolutely love it jumping into it. You know, and some people kind of heard about it. And you know, they might have a mixed, mixed feeling about it. And some people just think it's a big scam. So I'd like to share a little bit about what it is, and why I am jumping into the NFT world and why I am excited about what NFT can do for the future. And at the end of it, you are free to make your own decision. Make your own. Make your own judgement of what it is. But I think it's it's always, you know, something that I always tell everyone that think NFT is a scam is unless you immerse yourself in it, then I think you will never know the full story. I mean, when you think about it, right? When we looking at a business, for example, it's easy to see from the outside whether or not they're making it, but we know the people who are in the business, they know whether or not they're struggling and they're doing everything they can just so that they're keeping afloat and looks like they're doing fine. Or they're actually doing better than it might look or you know, it is a true representation of what it looks like on the surface. Right? And I'm in there is a saying that goes like you know, it's isn't always what it looks like on the surface. And it's absolutely right, wherever it may look, there is a good and a bad thing. Of course to it. Like everything in life. Is it a scam? Well, I know that there are a lot of scams out there, which is really unfortunate. unfortunate because it's ruining the reputation of NFT it is a big, big opportunity, a big, big way to change the way we approach and move forward. But this, this game that coming through, are really ruining people trust in it, right. But like everything else in this world, when there is a lot of hype, when there is a lot of interest, people will exploit that it's no different than the internet is no different than the phone when it first came out. It's no different than the internet when it first came out. But we know that it's it's Well, when you immerse yourself you will find out that NFT is such a strong technology. And it is also such a such an incredible thing to utilise, especially if you are an artist. So why will NFT disrupt the future of the art? Well, as I already mentioned, it has a new technology, a technology that can automate a lot of the contract side of things so that you know it is a lot more objective, you know, there's a less, less greediness, you know, people are getting paid what they are, it's going to be a lot harder to be scammed. Because it is more traceable. It is it is what they call it, it's more transparent. Right. And it's very, you could basically track everything. Of course there, you know, people find ways to kind of run away from it. But that is the whole idea. Right? The new technology. There is also a new ideology, we call it the old way is the web 2.0 And the new way is the web 3.0. And there is a big difference in ideology, right? Well as in the web 2.0 It was more about okay, you know, I'm me and I need to strive and oh, you know, this other guy doing the same thing. I better compete with this. But in the web 3.0 We're seeing a lot more collaboration a lot more a helping hand and, you know, it's a rising tide, you know, and we rise together as a boat, right? And that's what one of the coolest mindset of the some of the community in the NFT is that? You know, we always look for ways to to To lift each other up now, is there is that mean there is no jealousy? Is that mean there is no fear of missing out? Is that mean there is no, you know, imposter syndrome. Of course now, at the end of the day, we are human, but from what I've seen so far, it's really nice. And I will go into a little bit more detail on this. But, yeah, the other thing is that there is a big, big possibilities. Right. And, again, I'll go through a lot of this in a lot more details. decentralisation, you know, the power shift to the artists and individual in the old days, where, you know, a lot of the issue was an artist who might need to get to go to Gallery to get all this all their stuff selling, and the gallery will take a big cut from the artists, right. And at the end of the day, they ended up with 20 or 30%. And I get it right the gallery need the in marketing's expands need to pay for the electricity, whatever it may be. And, yes, although crypto currency is currently using a lot of power, but I think I highly encourage you to look at what you know, the conventional banks are using, you know, what, you know, galleries would have used right there using like, really high electricity. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think for every technology for every emerging technology and groundbreaking technology, there's going to be some pain, there is no way that we will change without pain. And, you know, there's already so many things that is happening, trying to address this, and I, you know, in a year or two time, I feel like a lot of this issue with the environmental problem gonna be solved. So I'm really excited about that. But the really cool thing is that this NFT world is like the Marvel like think about it, like the original of Marvel comics when it first came out, right? It is the OG and, you know, right now it might worth 0.21 eath, which equivalent to what a few $100, do a few $1,000. But in 510 2030 years time, you know, I'll be I'll be thinking that some of these will go 400 1000s of dollars, especially some of the artwork that are truly unique. So it's such an exciting landscape in the world. So what is an F T? Right? Nf T stands for non fungible token. Now, non fungible basically means it cannot be replaced, it cannot be altered. And it is truly unique on its own. Right. And what it means by that is that when you think about it, right? Think about it like $1 US dollar, right? A coin of US dollar with another coin of US dollar, they're not unique. You could interchangeable interchange them with the same sort of representation, as well as the same value, right? 50 cents is the 50 cents, they're looking at the same and you know, sure some might have things on it and whatnot. But it is interchangeable, right? Well as an NFT is not, you know, each have its own token, and each have its own smart contract behind it. Now, the second part of it is tokens, right? And that is, you know, non fungible token. So the token is the part where it represent the representation of something else, right. And in the NFT, or in the cryptocurrency world, it's, it's basically a series of numbers and letters that represent that particular art that get connected to a contract that we call a smart contract, because this contract is sitting somewhere in the system in the blockchain, and you can make decision on its own and you don't need people, you know, executing this and that's why going forward, the application is just so, so broad, and of course, I will go into a lot more depth in a little bit. But what is really cool about NFT why people are crazy about this NFT right. So I think there's five main pillars to this NFT first is authentication because with each With each art, suddenly there is a token that represent the art and artists of that particular art will always get linked to it. Of course, you know, with everything, there's going to be a way to explore it. But I'm just gonna go, you know, with the positive note the possibilities, right? Why, you know, it's all get authenticated, it's all get linked to the art between the artist and the art. And there is there no way, you know, in quotation marks, I'm sure there, you know, if you try hard enough, I'm sure there is a way to do it. But for now, it's really really, really, really, really, really difficult to change that authentication. Now, just think about it, like, a Mona Lisa, for example, Mona Lisa is a piece that is truly unique. And for you to authenticate that it's very difficult, right? People have been trying to fake it, and they try to, you know, and in order to check that there is going to go you, it has to go through a series of forensic analysis. But with NFT now, it's all it's all there visible in in the system, traceability, right, where it goes, when it goes who by who created it, it's all in the system. And it is a lot more a lot easier to track. And that's why it's great, as well as a transparency, right, is transparent, you could see each transaction, each price change even right. So if you say like to, to one of the collectors, I know this one is like this collection values have a lot of value. But you know, in actual fact, you just pop up the value, and then you just change the value of the price at that current time and then bring it back down. It's all visible. So it's a lot harder to scam. Utilities. Now, this NFT has been crazy in the world, right? And Gary Vee has been using them as part of a way to access him, right? If you look at the bigger kind of project like Word, ape, and so forth, it gives you access to a community and some other project. Actually, when you purchase that project, you are a kind of an adopter to a foundation where they donate most of the proceeds most, if not all of the proceeding to some sort of cause. And most of all community, right? We love to belong to a community, we love to hang out with the same people. And I think this is why NFV is really cool thing, especially the people who got it right, because it is a new technology, it is a new ideology. And it is a new path forward. And with this, it becomes really exciting. You know, because the possibility is endless. But we know that a lot of people are going to try to exploit it a lot of scammers. A lot of people try to make it look bad and try to destroy this, you know this ideology. So that is why if you find the right community, we actually protect the idea behind web 3.0 or the NFT. Right? And you know, it's just such a cool thing is really hard to explain in words. But if that's something you kind of want to find out, we usually hang out in Twitter. So why turn an art into an NFT? Right? What's the point? Well, one of the thing that really draw me into it was, of course, the first thing is, you know, it sounds like you can make a lot of money from it. And one of the things that I always say to everyone is that if you if your sole purpose to jump into NFV is to make money, then you probably shouldn't jump into it because first you just gonna destroy the ideology. Second, you probably not gonna make it because people are getting better at identifying the scammers and people who just in it for the short term. And third, you know, what's the point like, you know, you will burn out, you will hate what you're doing anyway. But one of the things that's really cool was the legacy part of it, you know, knowing that, you know, I've sold a lot of brands, I've sold a lot of photo books, but I know that one day, you know, maybe there is a big fire or whatnot or even, you know, paper degrades even the archivable material. So one day a lot of this material going to degrade and we'll lost its value. Well it's lost it all together, but you In the blockchain, it is a lot more secure, a lot harder to get rid of. So it's kind of cool that once it's there, it's there forever, right. Now, the next thing is some of the thing that I've already talked earlier is that the power shift, suddenly, an artist can be appreciated for their work, right? In terms of money in terms of as well as in terms of their art. I know that in the web 3.0 People really enjoy the connection with the artistic connection with the art instead of just, ah, it's a pretty photo, right? I mean, if you are an artist, or you know, whether you're a photographer, a sculpture, whatever it may be, aren't you tired of people just like looking at your art, and you say, it's like, oh, cool, that's awesome. Right. And you put your, your heart and your passion and everything you have into it, you know, I know that some of the shot that that, that I've captured, you know, I carry a 10 kilogramme backpack onto the top of the mountain or negative 25 degrees Celsius, I was freezing cold, I don't know, if I will have to cut my toe by the end of the trip. But you know, that's what we love. That's our passion. And the one thing that we want out of it is to be recognised and to be appreciated. Of course, we need the money, right? Because we need to live and that's what gonna put our food on the table, that was what gonna put the roof on top ourselves. But at the end of the day, the appreciation is priceless. And this is what's cool about it, I've seen a lot of indie indie artists raising money for the film that they want to build, and people are buying into the project because they believe in him. Right? That is the key word they believed in him, instead of you know, because this person have a lot of followers or because this this, you know, this person have connection or whatnot. And I mean, I've seen people so out there connection, you their collection, with only 800 followers. And of course, on the contrary, I also see people with 3040 50 100,000 followers that saw the collection. And at the end of that, at the end of the at the end of there i i believe that, you know, there is a big, big opportunity as an artist to bring this power back to us. And with the smart contract. Now all of a sudden, we can decide what is there and what's not, and upload it to the to the blockchain as a smart contract. So that you know that it is how, so that the term is how you wanted it. So that is really exciting. So, then, okay, you know, hopefully by now you're convinced, you know, it's like, whoa, that's cool, like, NFT. Perfect. That sounds amazing. So, I guess I'll share this from the photographer's perspective, right? But from artists perspective, and from the collector perspective, you just kind of flip it inside out, and I'll show you what I mean. But so then a lot of people can ask me, Well, Stanley, what do I meant for NFT. Now when I say meant, it means basically putting it in the blockchain and tokenize it as an NFT. Right? Now, if you're like me, you know, I have over 200,000 photos on my hard drive, it becomes really, really difficult to curate and think about what you want a minute. But I think the most important part of this, you know, as whether or not you're looking at it from a collective perspective, or artists perspective, is to stay true with your journey, right? Why you started your journey as an artist, like a good example is that, you know, when I first started, I started because I went on this five weeks trip in Europe, and I was just like, man, it was such an awesome trip. It was the road to Oktoberfest, I was a lot younger there. And, you know, looking back into this memory through some of these photos really got me disappointed. Because I felt like it didn't capture the experiences that I experienced. So my first thing was, I want to be able to capture memories, right? And the next thing is that you know, when I fell in love with it even more as it given me hope, purpose and happiness. I Want to do more of it, I want to travel full time I want to capture all these things, right. But along the line, I realise it's not about the pretty photo, but about finding unique perspective, just, you know, finding that unique perspective of the world, because, you know, we, we see, we see a lot of these popular spots, and that's cool. But when you can find a unique perspective, or a unique photo of that of that particular spot, it become it became personal to you as a photographer, and that makes it really emotional, right. And that's sentimental. And that's really cool about photography. And for that reason, you know, I know that I go through a lot of Summit during stupid hours as well. And I want to be able to share those magnificent beauty with with the bigger audience because I know that a big portion of the world don't have the energy, the opportunity and the ability to be able to explore such place, right? To be able to travel the world to do what I do to quit my job, and travel and just like leave everything sold everything and just pack my bag travel the world. But at the same time, I want to help those who really want to pursue their passion, but they don't think they can to show them that it is possible. So when I sell my, my very first collection was was about that it was about the journey and the journey behind each photograph or behind each NFT you get this like a little magazine, right on E magazine that I've put together about my ledger about the story behind me why I put this together about the wicked Han? And what is the wicked Han right about each photograph and the story behind photograph and why it is significant and why it is unique, as well as, when I was in that path as a photographer, what was the mindset and you know, I'm hoping for that to be a symbol for those who want to pursue their passion in whatever it is it may be, whether it is as a full time as a hobby or as a part time. Right? But that collection, help me to do share a lot of my work with with more of the world, right? To be able to motivate and encourage and hopefully get people to go outside of their comfort zone and chase their dreams. So at the end of the day, I think it's really important to to know your why and to stay through with it because it's not going to be easy. And if you don't follow if you don't have a purpose, then you will burn out and you will stop and you know you will give out altogether. So know your why. Now, once once you kind of know your why you start curating it right based on you know, what, what are based on, you know that that why why you know, all these different art that support that journey or of what you want to share. Now, once you have that, then think about the platform and the coin, right. And the platform is usually pick based on the coin that it supports. So for example, you know, open sea Foundation, slowly kind so forth are on Ethereum and exchange art is one example from what they call it Solana and so forth. Right? But one thing that you need to remember or to decide is that your niche and where your audience where are your collectors sitting predominantly before you, you you pick this right? Because essentially, those are the people that you want to talk to. But there are other things about the platform itself. So for example, each platform have different fees, each platform have gas, different gas fees, right? And gas fees is just think about it like if you're driving from one place or another to another right, it is the energy that it requires to for that transportation. So it's the same thing when you make a purchase, from you know, my quotation, my crypto wallet to your crypto wallet, there's gonna be a movement of assets and that's gonna cost money. Right now The next thing is the royalty. So again, when I mentioned about, you know, traceability and authenticity, right? When the art is sold to a collector, and that collector decide to sell it to someone else, you have the option to get royalty, so that, you know, let's say, I have this, I've got one of these shoulders really, really rare with a comment NEOWISE. And it was aligned with Aurora Borealis and the Milky Way and got published through like petapixel epoch time. Focus magazine in, in Germany, basically everywhere, right? And is such a rare moment, because it will not happen again in many lifetime. In fact, the next new comment near was going to be in 6800 years. So, you know, when, when it's at the moment, the market in the NFT is quite small. So it might sell for, let's say, you know, five, eath, five Aetherium. But going forward, it might, you know, people might discover it, and it might sell for 100 Aetherium, or, you know, 200, and you get a cut of that you get that part of the appreciation as the original person who captured the art that that create that art, right. And all of this is controlled by smart contracts. So it's actually really important as well, because each smart contract, sorry, each platform have a different smart contract, and some are better than the others like everything else. Now, the next thing is exclusivity. Like for example, you know, foundation. Sorry, let me start that over, for example, like super rare unknown origin and slow car, you know, it's it required for you to apply and get accepted. Foundation require for you to get invited. So it's a community curated platform by you know, other people. And a good example where you could literally jump in right now and meant your art is repairable and open see, right, and one other one that I will talk about is Tux dot art. And it is one that is created by Vince or Caltex. He is one of the first collector that made that populars and popularised NFT photography. And he created this platform as a fully decentralised platform. What's that mean? Is that no one is running anything behind it, there's just a bunch of code that you know, if you do this become that and you this income, then. And that's the that's kind of a cool thing about it, right? I know that a lot of nude photographer, for example, could not pose their stuff on Instagram, you know, because it would get censored and stuff like that. So, with decentralisation is a lot more power to it. But yeah, with great power comes great responsibility. But there's going to be another a lot of other benefits as well. For example, some are, can have the ability to buy it now, or to put an offer or to do an auction, some doesn't. Some can do collection of multiple artwork, and some doesn't. And some can do also do you know different ways of meeting your art as well. So I'd like to classify NFT art into three at the moment, right, I'm just going to make this simple for all of you a series or a limited edition. So let's say you got this photo and you want to sell five of them for X amount, right? And when you do that, it's become less rare and therefore it's usually price lower. Now, if you have let's say a theme for so my very first collection, so that was series and the second thing is collection, right? My very first collection is about my journey from you know, not knowing how to take photo, or my very first trip that really started my photography career to you know, leaving my engineering degree to where I am today where you know, I've captured countless once in a lifetime moments. A lot of that is captured in that collection, you know, and that is one theme, right? So in collection usually there is a theme about what it is what's happening and so forth. Now there's also a rare more rare one is one off one basically it's just a one off. So for example that night when I got the shot of the Milky Way the Aurora as well. As the comment NEOWISE, that's not going to appear in six less than 800 years, that's probably going to be put out as one of one, right. And of course, as it goes up, it becomes a lot less, a lot more a lot less supply, and therefore it become a more valuable. So why collectors buy? What is the value right? Now I guess you have to think about it like a business you know, each art have to overvalue whether it's an entertainment value, whether it's a, it's a while value, whether it's a uniqueness value, right, or whether it's a representation of the art. But so one of the things that that can make a big difference is the artist, their journey, their mission, their popularity, whatever it may be. Basically, if if there is a strong purpose, there is strong journey, and you know that the art is gonna become gonna keep going, and keep putting the investment on itself and keep creating, keep growing, keep creating groundbreaking stuff, then you know, that that artists will make it one way or another. And for that reason that artists will become more valuable. Because essentially, I mean, if you think about it, you know, like, Leonardo da Vinci a lot, all of his art become valuable, because you know, now he has in quotation marks make it right. But next thing is the art itself, right? The art itself might have a sentimental value or connection to the collector. Maybe it's where James was proposed to Jane. I don't know why I picked James and Jane, but it's the first thing that come into my head. You know, and it might be a shot in, in New York of that particular place. And when they saw that, they were like, Oh, yes, you know, does it remind me of this and that, and, you know, it's just, it's triggered their emotion, their sentimental connection to it, and therefore they buy it. Regardless, they're artists, because the community goes, whatever it is, but they just love the art. Now, the next thing is the community right? Now you have to think about it, like, when people purchase your art, they become not only a collector, but part of your journey, right? So they are they because there is a community around you. And that can be powerful. Like, for example, people who probably gravitate towards me is going to be people who felt like they have been in this stuck in life with no passion, or people who love adventure, or people who love snowboarding, right? Basically the things that are that I love that I have a mission for. And that's probably the things that people will resonate with. And the other thing is utility. So for example, coming forward, a lot of all of all of my photo trip gonna come with an NFT. And the NFT is going to be unique, and it's going to be more and more valuable, because, you know, as time goes by, it becomes I'm still not sure the whole details of it. But one thing that you can do is, you know, make it more desirable by adding value behind it now, what is that value? And you can go as crazy as possible, right? But that is the beauty of it. Like it's just so powerful, you know, all of a sudden, when they go for a photo trip, not only they get the photo trip, but they also get this investment for free or this bonus for free, that become an investment for themselves. Alright, so one way that I really like just to simplify things, is that you know, like, it's just a way of thinking about it right. So, in the old days, we used to call it company and in the in the NFT world we call it project right creator is a founder Dao or decentralised autonomous organisation is basically like the management collector become the shareholder. So when they collect one of your photo, they become a shareholder of you because if your value goes down, most likely to everything else will go down, right. J pack is like the stock certificates. roadmap is basically you know, the company plan forward their business plan, utility is their product right? So utility could be my photo trip now, you know, in a company that my cell in the tour company and again, it's the same thing they sell a trip right community Add a you know, become part of the marketing and royalties is revenue. So when you have that royalties when you sell part of your part of your if when somebody else sell your your your art, then you get the royalties and that is pretty much a revenue and token is the dividend, right? All right. So how do you market this thing? Alright, so I've already mentioned how important it is. And this is why NF T strife in Twitter, no in Facebook, no Instagram, because in Twitter, you can you can be in spaces where you could chat with fellow mates and you could basically, you know, build connection with each other. You know, that goes to the second thing. And if people really resonate with your story resonate with who you are, then it will trigger their emotion and they'll make them comfortable or make them more connected to your art. So Twitter is absolutely the biggest thing here. Right. And the next thing is the word of mouth, of course, right? Somebody telling somebody, it's been one of the best marketing and it's, it still is the best marketing. But if, you know there's a lot in there, and I know it's gonna take some times for you to go through, but I think I'm gonna leave it with this, you know, if there's anything that I want you to, to get out of this podcast is first to believe in yourself to believe that you are worth it. Because a lot of times Me included when I put my work out there I look at it, I was like, Well, you know, I'm a nobody and you know, I, I just jumped into this space only get 1000 Well, at that moment, I was like couple 200 followers, you know, why would people want to buy like this art for me, right. And the second thing is believing your art because sometimes the value of the art is good enough to stand on its own without our utilities without, you know all these things. But for example, for my case, the first five people that purchase my collection will get an airdrop now an airdrop is basically a bonus where I dropped them one of my other art and it is fully customised. So for example, if you do purchase one, then you can tell me what sort of photo that you're interested in, and I will send you like an album that you get to pick from, and from there. You could pick your customise NFT, that goes along with the one that you purchase. So well, why why did I do that because it is part of my mission. Right? Going back to what I was saying, I believe that the art itself stands enough to stand on its own. But at the same time, I want to be able to fulfil on my mission to share my my art. And, you know, I think I'm okay with rewarding the very the first few collectors out there that are believing in my journey, because that's gonna help me to reach more people out there. But you know what to make it is simple, but it's not easy. Today, I give you a lot of insights on what you need to do. And if you just do that, and you follow through with it, you're probably going to make it but it's not easy in a sense that every one solution is going to be slightly different. What's worked for me might not work for you what's worked for you might not work for me. And you might need to find this two millimetre shift, right, because that's all it takes. And it's incredible, because if you, for example, go to plastic surgeon, they're going to tell you this, that it only takes two millimetre shift to change the looks off your face, right to change the looks of whatever it is that you want to want to change. So and it is exactly the same thing. Just need that two millimetres shift the smallest thing that that will work for you. But you do need to figure that out yourself. So it's not gonna be easy. But at the end of the day, you know, when your time's up when you're on your deathbed thinking about what have I achieved in my life? What have I done in my life? You know what it's gonna be worth it's gonna be hard but it's going to be worth it. So I encourage you to go into the into Twitter, right jump into spaces follow some some of the key people in art or NFT or photography NFT? And, um, you know, and if you don't know, let me know, shoot me a DM I can, you know, show you who are the people to follow and listen to them when they're talking in Twitter spaces, Twitter spaces, basically a place where people can talk with each other. You no true voice app. Yeah, you cannot see each other. But at this, at the end of the day, it's much better than, than Instagram, right? Cool shots dude. Like, this is though good tones, man, you know, all this thing doesn't really make us feel appreciated as an artist. So I really highly encourage you to check it out. Because this technology is groundbreaking, and it will change the future. And what have you got to lose, right? At the end of the day, if you spend 236 months, 12 months, and you realise you don't want to do it, you can always go back to what you always do, and you got nothing to lose. But mark my word, this is going to be a game changing technology in the industry, people have come out with so many different ways to create or to, to create it's such a unique art of a true NFT. And it's just so exciting. And it's so exciting how the community is a lot more connected, that people, you know, the power is shifted back a lot more to the artists. And yes, it is not perfect. There are a lot of things that you need to look for, especially, you know, with the scams, I know that imposter syndrome is a big one here, people get depressed because, you know, they, when they see people selling out and they're not they can't sell anything, it becomes very difficult for the mentally. But, you know, at the end of the day, I think there is a much bigger benefit. And then the disadvantages, so I highly recommend you to jump into Twitter, connect with me and shoot me a DM if you have any question I'm happy to answer. But hopefully this has been insightful for you on what I've been into and what I've been working to, and what how this NFT world can really change your world as an artist. Yeah, so if you have any question, feel free to shoot me a DM or an email, whatever it may be. But hopefully you enjoy that little chat, if you haven't already. So hit the subscribe button. Make sure you leave a review so that you can you know share your point of view with other people and help other people to find this if it's if you find it useful, or just share the link to your friends, your family who's been looking for a different perspective of what is this NFT world is but we can hunters. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for listening in and I will see you next week. Until next time  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast season 2, where we share how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness! Today we have Tiba from Brazil. He is a Capoeira expert and a photographer and over the years he has worked with many famous singers/artists and travelled to many countries around the globe. In this podcast, he shared his journey in the NFT world sharing the story of his adventures to document Mountain Gorilla in Rwanda. He was able to capture a very rare moment where the gorilla was pounding his chest and have that photo hanging on Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund (Museum and research centre). He shared his journey as an artist, martial art teacher and why he decided to jump into the NFT world.  He made his NFT collection of Mountain Gorilla available on OpenSea; you can check it out here: https://opensea.io/collection/themountaingorillas If you want to learn more about Tiba's work, you can find it here: • Website: https://tibalism.com/  • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tibalism.eth/   • Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tibalism   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers. 

Hey Wicked Hunters! I can't believe it's been 30 episodes so far!  In this episode, I'm excited to have Jules Ingall with us sharing her photography journey. Jules is a Community Manager Canon Collective Facebook Page and has been living her passion at an early stage of her life. Unlike many of us who fall in love with photography at a later point in our life, Jules had always wanted to be a photographer ever since she was little. She followed her lifelong goal and live the life she always dreams of as a professional photographer.  Jules' work includes motorsport, travel, portrait and many more.  If you want to learn more about Jules' work, you can find it here: • Website: www.julesingall.com  • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julesingall/  • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JulesIngall  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  • Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------- Transcription: Jules Ingall  0:00   You hear a lot of photographers say that they kind of fell into photography, they were doing something else I know you were like that and you you know your journey kind of changed and you ended up in photography, even though it's now your passion. I always wanted to be a photographer Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:24   Hey wiki hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion as photographer and how photography have given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, I have someone who's been in true so many different genres of photography, and I'm so excited to introduce Jules Eno. How're you doing, Jules? Jules Ingall  0:45   Hey, Stanley, how you going? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:48   Yeah, pronounce the last name right. In England goal. Okay, perfect. Sorry about that. Yeah, it's so good. It's great to have you here. Um, so, yeah, you know, I've been chatting with you and I have read a little bit about your journey. And it seems like you have really long journey. And I think it's really interesting to have to have that. As someone who have gone through those different phases, because I know that each one of them requires a different, not only type of photography, but also a different type of approach. So yeah, welcome to the podcast and let us know a little bit about yourself and the history behind how you got into photography. Jules Ingall  1:29   Thank you. Well, I guess, you know, you hear a lot of photographers say that they kind of fell into photography, they were doing something else, I know, you were like that. And you, you know, your journey kind of changed. And you ended up in photography, even though it's now your passion. I always wanted to be a photographer. When I was, when I was little, I had an older brother, and he was really a big motorsport fan. And so we used to have a lot of banter and, and so my aim as a kid was I wanted to be a Formula One photographer, so I always had this, you know, passion for photography. So obviously, I started my journey in motorsport photography. And then like you said, it kind of, you know, saying, I've had had a lot of changes, you just actually hinting that I'm just really old, basically, because I keep changing. But I think, you know, it's also about developing, it's not just do it, you know, you do the one genre of photography? And do you find like, you kind of, you get to the point sometimes, where you like, you're doing the same thing, and then you want to challenge yourself. And that was how I kind of progressed, I started in motorsport. You know, I lived overseas and, and, you know, travelled all around the world. And then, you know, then I ended up in tourism, and now I do portrait photography. So I think you just kind of keep evolving as you as your skills develop. And as you want to change kind of, you want to, you get really good at White, or you never, you never perfect photography that I think but you get really good at one genre. And then you want to challenge yourself and try something different. And that was kind of how I ended up progressing to all different sorts of photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:10   Oh, wow, that's really interesting. So you've been wanting to be a photographer ever since you were like a little girl. That's, that's crazy. Jules Ingall  3:17   And I didn't end up as a Formula One photographer, unfortunately, I think I went to Europe and reality here to bed. And also, when when I first got into photography, it's really interesting, particularly in the current environment in the world, when I first got into it, I was photographing the, what's known as supercars in Australia now, and I was the only female and it was a very male dominated industry. And it was really difficult, like people just didn't accept why a female wanted wanted to do it, and why you're interested in sport. And this is, you know, we're talking in the 1990s. And I think back then, you know, like, even at school, I was taught how to iron and men's business shirt and be a good housewife kind of thing. So, so when I went to Europe, I found it was actually really difficult to try and break into it. I mean, obviously, it's great. Now things have changed a lot. There's, in in all industries, you know, there's a really good mix of men and women, but back then it just it there wasn't really a place for women. And it was such a tough battle. You know, a lot of other circumstances, but I never I never fulfil my dream of being a Formula One photographer, but I'm a photographer, and I absolutely, like it's my passion. I love it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:31   Yeah, that's, that's, that's been an interesting kind of shift, isn't it? I mean, it's, I haven't really experienced that that big kind of male dominant type of things. I know that we talk about it, but you know, a lot of my where I, my community and also all my friends actually have a good like, you know, a good balance of both female and male. So, I really, you know, I don't really have as much experience of having that out. that big diversity, or I suppose that big, that big difference in in the in, in the male and versus female kind of industry in photography, but how how was that a challenge for you when you try to? Yeah, break into the industry? And what do you do to try to? What do you do that make you succeed? You know, in breaking that really tough industry, especially back then, Jules Ingall  5:27   I think. I mean, I was a little bit fortunate, I was breaking into motorsport in Australia, and at the time as well, I didn't know photography was different back then, too, because it was the pre digital age. And now a lot of there's a lot of photographers, and it's a really saturated industry, I think back then it wasn't so much. So the fact that I, you know, went to all the events, and everything helped me as well. So I had an advantage, but then I probably cheated a little bit, I ended up dating, and now I'm married to a racecar driver. So, you know, that obviously opened a lot of doors for me, and, and we moved overseas together. And so you know, that, that gave me a lot of opportunity. So there was a lot of persistence. But I think, you know, if I'm totally honest, it helped a lot that, you know, I was, I was with who I was with, and I had opportunities that probably somebody else wouldn't have had. So, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:30   being too modest. You know, like, it's, I mean, it's a big learning from there, you know, in a sense that, you know, networking is one of the most important thing, and I mean, especially like, I remember when I was doing a little bit of high fashion kind of shoot, there was a lot of groups where you could, you know, reach out and you know, have that access, especially now with, with the Facebook group and stuff like that. So I think that's a very valid point to, you know, find friends, families, and one of the things that I like to do as I used to break down so one of the things that I like to do in and incorporate in my photography is this crazy pose. And when I go back to birth, I know who I'm gonna call to is, which is my niece and nephew, because they do like, you know, gymnastics. That's so cool. So that's, you know, it's not it's totally a valid point. So, yeah, thanks for sharing that. So, you know, you've you've gone to all these different genre, do you have like, any favourites amongst the like, you know, amongst these different one? And how, how does the evolution can kind of go like, you know, why, why you kind of, like, you share a little bit about how you got into motorsport and wanting to be a Formula One kind of photographers, but what really shift your journey into this different genre. Jules Ingall  7:49   Yeah, so where I said, I always wanted to be a photographer, that I always wanted to be a photographer, but the way I fell into the different genres was probably a bit more just circumstantial. So like I said, we were living overseas, you know, travelling around, I was doing the motorsport photography, came back to Australia, still did a little bit of it. But then I got married, I had kids, you know, just my husband had a really busy career, I just didn't really have much time for photography anymore. So I probably took about 10 years off, have really, I didn't earn a living out of it for that period. It was more just, you know, photos of the kids and a bit of fun. And then once my children started to get a bit older, I started, you know, getting up and doing sunrise and just taking photos around my local area. We travelled around Australia a lot with my husband's job. So I was taking a lot of landscape kind of photography. And then I started getting approached by tourism agencies about doing tourism work for them. And you know, someone offers you a pay trip to amazing places, and you have all these incredible experiences, you know, doing helicopter flights over the Great Barrier Reef and diving and snorkelling with, you know, manta rays, and it was just who wouldn't want to do that. So that's where my motorsport kind of, I've went away from that and then started getting into the tourism sector. And then, probably about four, four or five years ago, the tourism particularly with the introduction of digital photography, it was so oversaturated influencer market, you know, and you were getting all these influencers, and I mean, that's a whole nother podcast, isn't it with these people with their followers and selfies, and that just wasn't I'm not a self promoter. I just like taking photos. So I kind of started to steer away from the tourism stuff. And then I just, I mean, I love people. I've travelled a lot. I've I've met a lot of really diverse people over my years and I love meeting new people and interacting with people. So then I just got into portrait photography, so I think none of them are fibered I've had amazing opportunities with every single genre at the moment My passion is shooting people and photographing people. And I love photographing people who are inexperienced, I did a shoot yesterday with a girl who had never been in front of the camera. She was so nervous. And I just really find I love that challenge. So, yeah, I kind of fell into the different genres. So I don't know what's next. I don't know, where do you where to go to next. But at the moment, I love the portraits. Actually, Next, I want to be your assistant and travelling with you to some of the amazing places that you go to. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:29   Year to CHI. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really interesting, isn't it, like, trying different genre and kind of just following where the industry goes. And it's interesting that you say, you know, like, the way the way your life kind of steer away where you go with photography, but photography was always there for you to be like, you know, that anchor. So I think that's, that's the other cool thing about photography, right? Because, you know, you have that ability to kind of just document whatever it is in your life. And, yeah, that's, that's amazing. One thing that I'm interested to kind of learn from you, and I'm sure the audience can, would love to hear this as well is like, you know, back then, I'd love to hear what's the How was business in photography, like, you know, making breaking into the industry in photography back then versus now how is that different? I know that, you know, a lot of people say, all photography is oversaturated. But I know, we also have the privilege of social media where it's easier to put our work out there. So it's kind of like, you know, like, you win some you lose. So I'd love to hear your, your, your perspective on how does that change over over your journey? Jules Ingall  11:46   Well, I think now, like you said, you know, there's always people complaining that it's oversaturated. But I think, you know, the cream always rises to the top, and if you're good, and you have good work their work ethics. And you know, I think there's always work and there's plenty of work because because back when I was doing photography, it was digital, but there was no internet like, Oh, God, I sound so old, don't I but, you know, I had my own darkroom. And it was, so the demand for photography was probably less as well. So now, there's a lot more photographers, but there's so much more demand, because everybody wants digital content. So I think now you know it, I actually, to be honest, I find it probably a little bit harder now. Because it is very oversaturated. And people undercut your price wise, because so you know, that's one thing. But back when I back when I first started in the photography, I think my advantage back then was, you know, because I was doing the motorsport, I was the only one going to every one of the touring car races back then. So that gave me an advantage. And I got to know people. And then I got some big contracts with big car companies, big race teams, because I was always there. So actually, when I look back, and I was earning really good money back then. So I think it was probably easier back then than what it is now. Because even though even though it's it's a lot more saturated, now, there was a lot less people who were professional photographers back then. So even though there was less demand, there was also a lot less photographers, so you know, think, you know, between then and now, there was a lot of differences, but there's always work. I mean, there's always, for a good photographer, there's always work. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:29   Yeah, I find that really interesting that you mentioned that because I feel that, you know, back then it's a lot easier to find a niche Wallace. Now if you kind of have to, you know, dig deep, a little bit deeper into the niche and find that, you know, to be a person like you, who was the only person in that in that particular thing. And, yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that. But you know, I love how you how you share that you were just hanging around all these people. And you know, even with social media, I found that that works really well with you know, if you can provide value to the, to the to the company or the audience that you want to provide, or who want to be your customer, I find that you know, it's still kind of work the same thing, except it's just like you need to be truly unique in your own niche. So one thing that Yeah, I'd love to hear about what are your take on being like, how do you separate yourself from you know, from all these different photographers out there right now? What are some of your, your advice or your take on that? Jules Ingall  14:37   Oh, if someone works out the secret to that, let me know too. But I think you know, people get to know you and there's a lot of word of mouth and you say with porch or social media people see your work and that's the kind of style that even though there's a lot of people doing the same niches. Everybody's different. I think you You said it in one of your previous podcasts, you can have a lot of people in the same place taking the same, you know, the same scene, but they're all going to be different photos. So I think kind of, that's one thing, but I think one of the first things I ever learned in photography is, know what you want, like, people always say to me, oh, I want to be a photographer. What do I do? And it's like, okay, what what do you want? Do you want to earn money? Do you want to? What is it that you're actually trying to achieve? And I think once you realise what you're trying to achieve, it's easier to start, you know, focusing on that. It's not just I want to be a photographer, what are you find your niche that is a really difficult one, like you said, you know, I think a lot of people struggle with that. But also, if you're trying to make money out of it, go do something else. Because it's, I think photography is about passion, and doing what you love. And as long as, as long as you really, honestly love what you're doing, it comes out in your work, and then that ends up resulting in you getting more work, because, you know, if your work is good people, people want to use you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:08   Yeah, that's, that's really interesting, you know, that perspective of finding, finding what you want, I think that's a really cool way of saying it, because I see that a lot of people that, that struggles to create something that's truly unique is because they're still like, in this emulation, period, and kind of just never get out of it, because they don't really know what they want. And they ended up just recreating some of those, you know, some of the photo or the perspective that people take, so that's really interesting that you mentioned. And, yeah, it could be really hard, especially now in the social media era, with kinda like everything just out there. But what are some of the ways that, you know, cuz, I mean, you were in, in travel, and now you're in portrait? And, you know, there's a lot of portrait photographers out there, like, how do you separate and create something that is different that makes people go back to you and find you as a photographer? And yeah, what are the different ways in your photography that kind of like, separate yourself to help to help your audience or your customer decide that, yes, I want to be on duty shooting my my portrait kind of things. Jules Ingall  17:30   I think, like I said, I love people, and I love working with people. And I think making the person feel comfortable, you know, a lot of I think it's like you said, a lot of people go, Oh, you know, there's that photo of the Sydney Opera House, I want to take that photo, you know, and I agree with that, it's a good way to learn to find, I always said, say to people find a photographer that you love, like on Instagram, or Pinterest or something. And, and if you love their style, yeah, you can try and copy it to start with, but you do start to develop your own style. So with portrait photography, I looked at, I always try and, you know, bring, I try and spend a bit of time with the people and, and I don't try and do a portrait photo. So if I'm looking at you sitting there right now, I don't just try and take a photo of your face, I try and spend 15 minutes with you first. And you know, normally the first 15 minutes of a shoot, I throw away the photos because it's me getting to know you and and then I find out I hear a little bit cheeky and a little bit fun, and then try and work that into the shoot and bring out the person's personality a bit. And, you know, just try and be authentic with your photography. I think I think photography is a lot like a lot of other things. People think I want to be a photographer, and I'll go out and buy a canon or five and I can be a professional photographer. Some people just don't have a natural, you know, you still have to have a bit of a natural eye for photography. So I think unfortunately, should I say like, there's some people that no matter how good or equipment you give them, they're just, I guess you you still have to have a bit of that natural eye. I mean, you can learn it but there's got to be some sort of It's like saying I want to be a racecar driver, but I'm never ever going to be good enough because I'm just not naturally talented at it. So I think photography is the same sort of thing. You have to be a little bit artistic, have a bit a little bit of that natural ability, equipment and all of that sort of stuff helps you can learn and you'll always develop and get better. But yeah, just try and try and be authentic with what you're doing. I think he's my best piece of advice Don't try and you know, people will take a sunrise photo do an amazing sunrise and they'll just go out and take a photo. Think about what you're doing and and what's the photo of and I think when I take a particularly with landscape photos, I always think would I handle this on my wall? So it's not just a photo of the beach or the sunrise it's got to have Have some sort of subject and some sort of story when you look at the picture, so, I don't know, I guess Yeah, that's the way I look at it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:08   That's, that's, that's a great way to look at it. You know, I love how you, you the way you say that, you know, when you take a portrait, instead of just taking a photo, you try to get to know the personality and try to bring the personality and capture that in, in a form of photographs. So, you know, I think, like going back to photography, like you say, with with landscape, most people can just go there. And then like, you know, it's like, oh, you have beautiful sunset or sunrise, but there's no really soul in it. Because, you know, that's, that's it, like, it looks great. But what is the story behind it? And yeah, that's, that's great to hear that. It's story is definitely one of the I think it's one of the most powerful things in photography. And Jules Ingall  20:53   so that's what really draws me to, I think that's what really draws me to your photography, you know, you obviously go to some amazing places, but you know, every photo I look at, and I just say, oh, it just blows my mind, because you obviously have a natural eye. But But I look at it, and you don't even have to say anything, and there is kind of a story. And I think yeah, if people can, can really think about what they're doing, and not just snap off. And that's the that's, I think one of the things that you learn a lot, because I started with film camera, when you took film camera festival, it was really expensive. So you couldn't just shoot off, you know, some days, I'll do a one hour shoot and take 400 photos, whereas back then you really had to think about every single photo was like, Oh, this photo is going to cost me money. And you know, say the same thing. Now really think about what you're doing. And don't just snap off a photo really have taken the scenery or whatever it is you're shooting really have a point of what you're taking, don't just take a photo. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:59   when you say like a point, like what do you mean by like, have a point like, like a purpose behind that like that? That photo itself? Jules Ingall  22:06   Yeah, why are you taking the photo? Like? Are you taking the photo? Because you want to get 100 likes on Instagram? We'll just relax, because that's a total waste of time. But yeah, what are you trying to say with your photography, so if you can achieve that, so if you're doing a landscape photo, don't sit and take the scene in and, and experience sometimes even I'll, I'll go somewhere, and I'll take my camera and I won't even take it out of the camera bag, I'll just sit down and I'll just enjoy the experience. You know, it's not all what you really need to think about what you're doing with your photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:43   Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great advice. Yeah, I think, you know, especially like you say, with the digital era, you know, every click is, is free. And we take it for granted. So. And I bet like half of the photo is as well. You know, the problem with the digital is that hover over the photos, we probably never look at it again. And you know, with the film, like everything counts, because you have to print it to have a look at it. So you're always revising to that. So yeah, it's really interesting how this, you know, the, the easier it is, with technology, to take photo kind of can actually make it harder to become a better photographer. So yeah, really interesting kind of point. So, Jules, do you have any, you know, what are some of your most memorable moments in, in photography? Jules Ingall  23:38   Oh, geez, I wish I'd have thought about that question. Like I said, I've had some unbelievable experiences, I think, you know, obviously, I think the tourism thing is the most memorable with the motorsport I got to travel a lot. And I experienced, I travelled all around Australia and a lot overseas. We lived in Germany, Japan, the UK, like, you know, had some crazy experiences living overseas and doing that, but the tourism side of things, I think, you got to do things that that were just so cool, like, you know, because Because tourism boards are trying to show off their best but even got to do cool things like you know, I flew out to a cattle station and in the middle of winter and it was freezing cold and had a bath, you know, out in the outback from bought a ball water from 500 metres under the ground and it was just so cool. Like it was such a raw authentic experience, you know, surrounded by the Outback and no diving and Great Barrier Reef. I've obviously done probably the majority in Queensland but even overseas with Canon in 2019 I did a trip to the Baltics and Russia went to Finland like that would just blew me away because it was some way i i never ever would have thought to travel. It was no Ever on my bucket list, no interest at all. And I had a two week trip over there. And it just was mind blowing, I was absolutely loved it, you know, we were staying in castles, you know, that were 1000s of years old. And it was just amazing. So I feel so fortunate with the photography. And I think that's one thing with photography, even if you're just an amateur, and you have a full time job, and you do it on weekends, it, it makes you even experience your backyard, more than what you you did before photography, you know, you'd go and travel to places, there's places on the goalpost that I'd never been, until I picked up a camera as I'm gonna go photograph that. So I think it's, you know, it's such a positive, whether it's a hobby or a profession, there's so many positives about photography, and it's, you know, you always feel so rewarded and satisfied after you take a great photo. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:53   Yeah, it's, it's really, I love how you put that because it's, it's interesting with with photography, it really changed your perspective. And it did it really push you to go to, you know, the places that you never think of, isn't it? I mean, you know, like, like you said earlier, like, I go to all these places, but and a lot of that is motivated by photography. So yeah, I believe photography have a lot of great impact in and actually can bring a lot of great impact. Even, you know, even though the people haven't gotten into it, too, into their lives, so, and it's kind of why we do like, you know, this podcast because, yeah, like, you know, photography has changed my life. And I know, you know, it has made your life a better part of it. So it's great to kind of hear that. Yeah. So I know that you're super dedicated, not only with photography, but also with like, you know, community around photography, I know you like one of the admins in, in canon collective, which is like an Australia, Canon Australia community. How does, you know? Like, how do you manage or all that? And where does this passion come from, to, you know, like, I know that you're busy, and you have a lot of this things like that's happening, but you keep pushing to do this, you know, everything around photography, not only not only taking photos, and you know, supporting your, your life through photography, but also, you know, having that community and also building buildings, connecting with other photographer and creating that safe space. You know, how does that where does that passion come from, and, you know, what kind of push you to keep going. Jules Ingall  27:38   I think the Canon collective page, I feel very fortunate that Canon asked me to be involved with that, because I was obviously a member of the collective page for a long time before they asked me to be an admin. But I feel like I've had a very privileged life. Like I said, I've, I've lived my passion, my job, it is my passion, you know, to be paid to take photos is for me, I I just feel so lucky. Like, I love doing it. You know, I feel so fortunate with the life I've had the travel, I've had so many amazing experiences that the thing that I find with photography is there's so much more and more, there's so much negative in the world social media, there's so much nastiness, you know, I hate all that stuff I hate. I don't like any of that sort of negative bullying, online bullying, and I find with the photography communities, it's just not like that, particularly the Canon one. I mean, that's obviously the one I'm most active on. I never see anything negative, you know, people are supportive. And the great thing about the Canon page, which is why I am so passionate about it is, you know, there's people on there who only shoot with their iPhone. So they're not photographers, and I don't pretend to be photographers, but they're passionate about photographers, photography, they've got a full time job, but they love taking photos. And, and people see good photographers, and they're like, Oh, gee, I wish I could take a nice photo and I, and the satisfaction that you get when when, you know, in that Canon collective page, what we're trying to do is give people skills to improve their photography be a great community, you know, supportive community encouraging each other. But also, there's a lot of amazing photographers on there, like you like you're very active on the page. And the way that, that the good photographers inspire the people that are just learning, and then you get messages from people that are just learning. They're like, Oh, wow, I took this photo today. I never thought I'd take a photo like this. I'm going to print it and I'm going to put it on my wall and you just hear the joy that that gives me so much joy that, you know, I'm so passionate about that side of photography and what a positive. I just, I can't see anything negative in it. And I think if we had more things like that, you know, how good would the world be if people were more like that all the time. So I think that's what what inspires my passion for it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:01   Oh, that's, that's amazing. Yeah, like, you know, that's hearing that that is really good to hear, you know, especially being able to hear that, you know, even people who don't have a proper a proper camera, um, for those who's listening, I'm doing this thing, okay? To see. But yeah, cuz, you know, a lot of people think that you know, you need a proper camera, but in true fact is that you could shoot with any camera and it will still bring happiness and I love that you share that, you know, I love that you share how much the community can get inspired by other other other photographers or other people photos that have been like, taken and shared. And I must say you already do you and Steven is doing really, really great job in that in that community, you know, it's more alive than ever. So, you know, one of the reason why I want you to be part of this podcast is for that reason is that you're just make make the community more alive, you know, make everyone more connected. And that's, I think that's, I think we need more of that in this world. And it's good to kind of see that. And you mentioned earlier, which is interesting topic, especially in this whole social media era is, you know, about this negative some of the negative comments or perspective in social media? What what are some of the ways that, you know, maybe you can share with the listener to, to try to avoid that, to try to harness a more positive community, you know, whatever, wherever it might be in social media, is I know, it's a big problem. And, you know, I see it over and over again, where people just, I feel like people just like to bring other people down, you know, for whatever reason, but do you have any advice on you know, how to stay away from that, and how to, you know, stay positive and create more of an inclusive community around photographers, or, I should say, around everyone, including, you know, people who might not have the right kind of gear or the, again, called professional camera or DSLRs? Jules Ingall  32:18   No, that's, that is such a tough question. Because you could talk about this for hours. I mean, from my experience, being married to a racecar driver, and, you know, celebrity quotation marks, whatever, someone famous, I've seen some horrible, horrible stuff written about him over the years about me about my children, you know, and I think when I was younger, I would read the things and I would get so hurt by it, because people are writing these really nasty things. And they don't even know you, they've never met you. And it's the same thing. So then you see, the same thing happens, you know, someone will post a photo on a, on a thing, and on some sort of photography page, or whatever. And to me personally, like I hardly ever post because I'm so self conscious about my photography, and I don't want to be judged, you know, but for someone to post a photo, they obviously think it's good. Because if, if you think it's a bad photo, you're not going to post it on a public forum. But then you get smashed up by other people and are That's rubbish. And you should learn, I just, I don't understand why anyone would do that. And it's really, really difficult. And I think for me, personally, it's just experience that has taught me that people that do that it says more about them as a person than you as a person of photography, your skill, you know, and it's very, very difficult, but you just have to ignore it. I that's what I love about the Canon group and Canon Australia are very determined that there's none of that. I mean, I haven't experienced any of that. So far, I've been doing the job for seven months. So that's what I love about I have not experienced at all but canon Australia have given us the directive, we will not tolerate that. So I think, you know, one of my best pieces of advice is there are groups out there that are really nasty, and people are very judgmental, and don't be in those groups. And if someone is giving you nasty messages, block them, you really need to just you need to just be really brutal about it. If someone's horrible, put them set them aside, because that's not your people. They're not the right sort of people. It's not helpful. It doesn't even if your photo is bad, what is it? Why is it I see people post photos, you know, and now say what can I do to improve and then people will jump on and go, Oh, straighten the horizon, you know, look at the source and it's constructive and it's helpful. Nothing wrong with that at all. And I think people appreciate that. But for people to smash you up, just you really need to just, it's very difficult to do but You just need to move away from that, because it's all it does is upset you and it's I hate that sort of stuff, it just, I'm very passionate about that i There's no need to be nasty ever in any circumstance. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:13   That's, that is such a great advice. And, you know, how you said that it's, it's more about them and you know, just just, you don't have to deal with them. And it's that is very true. You know, you don't have to take it personally and you just let them go. And like, you know, don't deal with them. So that's the really good advice. And I know, there's a lot of people and, you know, I experienced that as well, when I first started is just, you know, like, we all started somewhere. And somehow, you know, some of these people when they get to where they are right now, they forget how bad they were when they started, because, you know, I can guarantee you they didn't get that good right away. So, yeah, really good advice. And I appreciate that you share that. I think that's really important, especially in this in this era of social media, like a lot of people have different opinion. And not everyone can, you know, say their opinion in a way that can be constructive? Like, like you mentioned? Well, that's, yeah, that's really great. I'm having a lot of fun with the conversation here, Jules. But we're coming connect to the end of the podcast. And one thing that I always ask to all my guests is that, you know, if there's one advice that you could give any, to, to photographers out there to the listeners out there, whether whether it's about skill set, about motivation, or about mindset, what would that one advice be like, you know, what would that what what would come up in your mind right away that people should, you know what you have to do this, Jules Ingall  36:48   okay, a couple of pieces of advice, know what you want. So if you're, if you just want to take photos for your own, you just want to have fun, that's great. If you want to take photos, because you want to earn a living out of it, you know, that's a completely different situation. And you need to approach it differently. So know what you're trying to achieve. And then look to other people that you admire, join groups, ask lots of questions. So, you know, look at a photo that you took, oh, wow, Stanley, I love that photo. How did you do that? You know, look, and, and that is how you learn and grow as well. So, you know, I always think follow people whose work you admire. And then always ask questions. 99% of photographers are always happy to answer questions, join groups, similar sort of thing. You know, like I said, the Canon collective page, there's so many helpful tips, people are so generous about sharing their knowledge, and just keep learning all the time. There's, I don't think there's any photographer in the world that is a perfect photographer, everybody's always learning. So, you know, whether you're just starting your journey, or, you know, there's always more to learn. So, just keep asking questions. And, and the most important thing of all, I think, especially with photography is, you know, just keep passionate about it, and keep enjoying it because it's such a fun, hobby profession, whatever it is, it's it brings so much joy to so many people. So enjoy it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:12   Oh, that's that's an amazing advice. You know, I wish I had listened to this, or I had talked to you about this. Because when I first started, I felt like I was alone. I felt like, you know, there's no one to reach out to. But, you know, the groups like the one that you you take care of those, those really show like how people can be really supportive. And it's I think it's really good. A really important point to share with people out there that they are not alone that you know, there are groups and people who are willing to help you. So that is a really great piece of advice. Well, just it's been a lot of fun. And thank you very much for sharing not only your stories, but also some of the wisdoms that you've learned, you know, throughout your journey. And I know there's a lot of listeners that would be interested to learn more about you to see more of your work. What is the best way for them to reach out to you and to learn more about your work? Jules Ingall  39:12   Thanks, Stanley. I'm just like everybody else. I'm on Facebook and Instagram and really just my name Jules Engle. And always, always happy to answer any questions as well because like I said, I think that's how we all learn. So thank you so much for having me. I've loved talking to you and I love your work. Like you're my pedestal if I could be half as good as photographers, you Stanley, I'll be happy. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:38   I know. You're blushing it's, yeah, it's yeah, like honestly, you share a lot of wisdom in that group. And yeah, if if anyone who cannot want to get to know, photography or have any question, definitely reach out To us, because you're very giving in in terms of the skill set, you don't hold back on helping others to be a better photographer. And it's just amazing to kind of see that what you call it like, again, why I'm doing a lot of quotes in this podcast, but yeah, one of the secrets a lot of people, a lot of photographers kind of hold it, you know, to their close to their chests. It's like, oh, this is my recipe, but, you know, I love how you how you share a lot of this. Not only the way you think, but also the technical side of it. So yeah, that's, that's, that's great. Um, so yeah. Weekends as hopefully you enjoy that, that conversation. And like I said earlier, check out Jules work, she got some amazing work. And she'd been doing photography from all the different genres. So there's so much to learn from jewels. And I will make sure i'll put the link on the comment below. So if you do want to learn, if you do want to reach out to her or work with her, you can do so on the link below. But thanks, thanks a lot for tuning in. And I'm glad to have you here. And if you haven't already done so don't forget to subscribe so you can, you know, get notified when I have the next amazing photographers and inspiring photographers like Jules in the podcast. But Jules, thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for sparing your time. I know you're a very busy person, and I really appreciate to have you here in the podcast. Thank you. Okay, well, we can just, that was it. And I'll see you guys next week. Until next time,  

Hey Wicked Hunter, This week, I'm very excited to introduce an inspiring figure in the Photography space. Someone who turned what was considered a “stupid” idea into a thriving business. Alex Cearns is a pet photographer and photography, business mentor. She has published book, win awards and recently become an Ilford Master. Tune in to the podcast to discover her journey and what are advice she has shared for those who are thriving to build something like her. If you want to learn more about Alex's work, you can find it here: Pet photography site: http://www.houndstoothstudio.com.au  Business mentorship site: https://www.blackcatconsulting.com.au  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/houndstoothstudio/ Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1918712611578342/ Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------------ Transcription: Alex Cearns  0:00   And I've got a free one hour consultation on my business idea. I said to him, you know, I want to photograph animals in a studio, like what people do for people but for pets, and he actually laughed at me and said that will only ever be a hobby. That's like no one's going to come to that. That's stupid idea. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:24   weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion and we share how photography gave us hope, purpose, and happiness. And today, I am so excited to introduce Alex who's been crushing it as a pet photographer and she also crushing it in, you know, creating a business and coaching kind of a business to help other photographers to crush it just like her. So I'm really excited for you to to hear some of the story behind her success. Hey, Alex, how you doing? Alex Cearns  1:01   Good. Thank you. How are you? You made me blush? That was such a lovely introduction. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05   No, no, your your well deserved. I feel like I mean, we're gonna go into that a little bit later. But I feel like you know, everything you created just go crazy. So that's amazing. To see. Yeah. So you know, thanks for joining us and introduce, give us a little bit introduction of who you are. And you know, a little bit background on what really got you into photography, and what would life be for photography. Alex Cearns  1:36   So I'm a professional pet and animal photographer based in Perth in Australia, but I work quite globally, particularly on different animal charity projects. So my photography is my day job. Mostly I photograph pets in a studio. And I photograph wildlife in a studio as well for rescue groups. And then I also do natural light photography and tours. So kind of weird combination using artificial lighting for some things. And then, you know, the non pet stuff I do outdoors using natural light. And I also photograph wildlife in the studio as well. So it's kind of a weird mix that I started photographing, probably about 15 years ago, I went on a holiday to like an old kind of prisons, tourist attraction, it's an old prison, you know, ruin, and I was walking around the ruins and I had a small point and shoot camera. And I just thought this camera isn't enough. It was just kind of a hobby. I bought a camera cuz I was going on holiday. And when I got home, I thought cameras with the big lenses. So I can you know photograph birds and just by using the smaller camera but kind of outgrew it pretty quick. So I came home and I bought a $350 entry level digital SLR it was a very cheap kind of budget camera. And I thought, you know, I'm going to photograph everything, you know, this easy, I'm going to photograph still life and landscapes and animals people. So easy. Just point the thing and push the button. And little did I realise that it's not all very easy, some things are quite hard. And animals are what I gravitated to and found the easiest and found I was getting the best results in. So I started that fairly quickly. I'm about eight weeks in, I just decided I wanted to photograph animals. And I guess now my life is just consumed by animals. They're some of my best friends. But you know, one of my best friends is a cat. And don't tell anyone. And I also, you know, animals are surrounded by them in my home, I've got my own pets, I travel and I work with animals. You know, my charity works revolves around animals. And I just think that's a really nice energy to be around. I feel very lucky. Before photography came along, I was in audit and compliance kind of roles. I was a police officer for 14 years and I was a airport auditor so she's gone airport audits for their counterterrorist security measures for five years. So might have like checking boxes and enforcement and compliance and to switch into something, you know, lovely like the arts is a real shift. And I'd much rather be where I am now than doing those jobs. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:09   Oh, that's, that's awesome. And like you always you always have a creative side of you or like photography really appeal to that creative side all the sudden, how's your creativity, you know, in your life all together? Alex Cearns  4:28   That's a great question. I didn't have any I don't think I really had any creativity. But I was in my early 30s And I was kind of looking for my thing. Like I really wanted my thing that I could just do that brought me joy wasn't even something I had to be good at. And you know, something that it's easy exclusive. Like I didn't have to be number one in the world. I just wanted a thing that I could enjoy. My grandmother was a very talented painter. She would paint on China like cups and mugs and plates and she was a very good artist. And you know my I'd always took photographs when I was younger. So there there was a bit of a family history of, you know, being artistic. But I can't even draw a picture like, my drawings are like see figures. And that's why I take photos because I just can't what I say with my hand, but I just when I picked up that camera, I found that I gravitated towards animals very quickly. And I loved that they became like the natural focus on my lens pretty much. And I found that probably six months before I went on that trip and bought that camera I was I thought maybe, maybe I'll be a soccer player. That sounds like fun. And so I went to a soccer training, I bought all the gear because I thought I spent less money on the gear and got there and it was my turn to kick the ball that was only training and I kicked the ball in a way it went for miles. And the coach turned around and said, Did you just kick that off your toes? And I was like, yeah, yeah, it went really far. She's like, we don't kick like that. It's off the side of your foot. And I was like, Oh, I don't know if this is gonna go so well. And then you had to run and you had to bend down. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm up for this exercise thing like that. So I realised fairly quickly, it wasn't going to be soccer. Then I started writing a book on other people's supernatural experiences. And I thought, well, that got a bit weird. And I wasn't going off there. And so I was trying to find the thing. And, you know, I was actively trying stuff to see what I enjoyed the most. And I'm still doing it. So because I still love it. So yeah, I was glad that that stuck. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:22   That's, that's interesting. And what what is it that one thing that makes you feel because you know, you just say you try a few different things. But you know, what is that thing that makes you like, feel that photography is that thing that you want to pursue? Alex Cearns  6:37   Yeah, I didn't really have any I played tennis and basketball, but I didn't really have. So I had sport, but I didn't really have any hobbies, I had a little house I'd built and I do gardening and but beyond that, like I was like, I didn't really have a passion, like, you know, I just kind of go to work and I come home and I wanted something that I just got a lot of enjoyment out of that I could do. And you know, photography ticked that box. And I think I've always loved animals. I'm an only child. So I grew up around animals, they were actually some of my first friends. You know, I grew up on a farm, we had, you know, bottle fed baby lambs and rescue kangaroo Joey's and, you know, little animals that we found and rehabilitated. So I grew up around guinea pigs and dogs and, and that's, I just love it that kind of, you know, it was incorporated into my life now. But I feel like too, before photography, it's kind of walking around, but not seeing anything, you know, like, you understand to as a photographer, even if you don't take the photo of the dog, you might look at it and go, that would make a great photo. I'm like that with landscapes and environments, and I see a cobweb and it's got some do shining in the sunlight. I'm like, wow, that would make a great photo. I don't take it because I can't do it justice. But I still see stuff that other people just trade on, you know, because they don't, when you're looking for images all the time, the world is seen in a different way. And I travel a lot, and I do these tours, and I'm always looking through the barrel of my lens. Sometimes I think, you know, am I missing out on the true experience? And I'm like, Well, no, for me, that is the experience, I see more looking through that camera than I say, just sitting here going, you know, because I'm here, I'm just looking at all of it there, I'm trying to find bits that really jump out and that are interesting to me that I can share as something I see as a story I want to tell about that animal. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:22   You know, that is that is awesome. And we get we get talked about this a lot. You know, like, most of the time people say it's like, oh, maybe you know, like, just put down your camera and observe and you know, enjoy and take it in. And it is true in a way but the way you put it is also very true and something that I never think about, which is really interesting. Because, you know, when when I when I teach my mentee or my students, that's what I tell them is that you know, like sometimes like you know that a lens is going to be restrictive. So you need to think about what part of the landscape because it is overwhelming to you. Yeah, so it's really interesting that you two point to point out that you actually get more experience by looking through the lens that is really interesting. Something that is a perspective that I never think about before. Yeah, that's that's that's really awesome. So would you say that you know, your your the fact that you grew up in a farm may help you to find a niche and you know, fall in love to that particular needs and, and stuck with it right away? Alex Cearns  9:34   Yeah, I think it's a good lesson. I think even even for other people who are trying to find their thing. What do you love doing? What do you love being around? Do you love nature? Do you love watching sport on television, maybe your job as a sports commentator or just to go and play sport like you know, whatever the thing is that you love. I have always had an affinity with animals. I've always loved their company. I respect them. I see them as sentient beings you know, and I I used to volunteer at some rescue centres cleaning out, you know, dog Cade, kennels and cages and stuff like that. And so to be able to photograph them, and then use those images to give back to them in some way, which is really important to me, too, is is a real, I feel is a real gift to me. You know, they're like, well, we got these images for our rescue. I'm like, No, I got the meet your amazing animals and being their company. So I think just looking at your life, if you you know, it wasn't ever for me about even it being a business. It's just what I really wanted to do. If anything, in the early days, when I thought you had this little room in the bottom of my garden, it's now my office where I am now, my first studio, it's very small. And I thought I might make that a studio. I struggled photographing pets outside, in natural light. Fine, we even our little bit hard, I don't know why assisted disconnecting with my brain was not my skill set. So I wanted to photograph animals in a studio pets in a studio, because I love that. And so I converted the little room and I went to a business advisory centre, and I'm going to free one hour consultation on my business idea. I said to him, you know, I want to photograph animals in a studio, like what people do for people, but for pets. And he actually laughed at me and said, that will only ever be a hobby. That's like, no one's gonna come to that. That's stupid idea. And I was just like, Oh, I thought oh, well, maybe he was not a dog person. And I left. And luckily, I was too stubborn to listen, because I just wanted to do it. If no one turned up, well, I just photographed my own dog in the you know, and, you know, now looking back, I always think I wonder if I should send him a Christmas card, let him know how it's been going for last 12 years, it's been going pretty good. So you know, don't let anyone tell you that your thing isn't the right thing. If that's what you really want to just do it. No one else's opinion matters if it's making you happy. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:45   I love that. I love that, that that is such an inspiration. And, you know, there is I, you know, as someone who who empower who, whose mission is to empower others to be better in photography, I get crushed when I when I hear, you know, people, people say that kind of thing. Because, you know, I believe that, yes, it might be hard, but it's never impossible. It's about you know, how you can find, find that creativity to create, you know, something out of nothing. So, I think that is really amazing that, you know, you kept stuck with it. And, you know, looking back, you can you can link to those days, and actually, you know, use that. And I know that you're an educator as well, and actually use that as a way to, you know, exam as an example to those people who doesn't believe in it. Because quite clearly, you know, usually you're the person who doesn't believe it, and your mentor is the one that push you But right off the bat, you're like, No, no, it's not. Like, that is incredible. Yeah, that is incredible. Thank you. Yeah. So do you know, share us share with us a little bit about, you know, what is? What is day in the life of Alex, you know, like, what, what, what's not, not only you know, the business side of things, but also in, you know, like with, with photography, you know, you just say that your business, your business, I don't know, mentor or whatever he may be or consultant. Think it's impossible. And yet here you made it. So what do you do to kind of make that work? Alex Cearns  13:37   I think for anyone that's in a portrait photography kind of area, the best thing I did was just photograph dogs, you know, the more photographs you take for clients, the more other people see that work, the more your brand starts to grow. I also had this really clear picture at the start that I kind of saw myself in the middle, and all my clients were around here. And then I was surrounded by all these other photographers doing similar things or taking photos and trying to vie for that market as well. And I kind of felt, you know, these clients are never going to know who I am if they if my peer group of photographers don't know who I am, you know, unless I have a brand name in photography, then how am I going to push out to the public expect them to know me when my own peer group doesn't know who I am? So I used competitions in the beginning to grow my profile, I entered a lot of competitions. They're not really things that have ever bought me a client, a client will say, Oh, you won a prize. And I say, Oh, is that why you booked a photo session? No, no, no, you photographed my friends German Shepherd and I saw their photos, you know, it's not there, but they will recognise it. So for brand building, it's good. Doesn't necessarily prompt them to pull the trigger and book a session. So I just, you know, started pushing out amongst photographers and going to camera clubs and speaking at camera clubs and doing presentations and sharing information with, you know, camera clubs or kind of anyone from really, really strong, their own fouzia His level of really strong level to like, amateur hobbyist, beginner kind of thing in the range. And I started judging at the camera clubs and doing judging and, you know, now those camera club people are the ones who if they get asked by a friend, can you photograph my dog, you've got that camera, they go, No, you've got to go to Alex, she comes to our club, and she's lovely. And she talks to us and she judges and, you know, they're the ones that book my tours, they buy my books, they, you know, you know, participate in the things I do listen to the podcasts, you know, so I really grew that profile. And then I pushed out then from that into the public as well, just because I kind of, you know, photographers, were partly doing the job for me and recommending me, you know, to, to their friends and family, and it started to grow. So it was important for me to make sure that I was known, you know, in my own profession. And then I kind of stretched out from that. But just photographing, you know, even if we were very lucky to have some amazing experiences. But if your ego gets carried away with the number of books you have, or how many times you've been on TV or awards, and you don't look after your core group of clients, the whole house of cards falls down, no photos, no books, no photos for awards, no people telling you how good you are, because you've dropped the ball, you know, you've got to consistently keep up with the business demands the standard of service, you know, all your professional outputs, and make sure the clients are satisfied, because they're taking those images into their homes, and other people are seeing them and they're talking about you. And that's where business comes from, first and foremost, your customers. So I really am glad I learned early on to not get caught up in I've won a probably an award or people telling me how great I am about because I've got this or, you know, I really was like, that's all lovely, but that's not what generates core business. You know, that's clients and servicing. The needs of those clients are making sure they're looked after and they're happy. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:51   That's, that's great. You know, like, some of the stuff that you just shared there. It's, it's really, it's really amazing, especially for photographers, it's, you know, usually, we, we don't really connect that sort of things, you know, we just like taking photo, do you always like, you always know that, you know, ever since you pick up that camera, and you always know that, okay, you know, like, this is awesome. This is for me, I want to make a full time, like, way to support my lifestyle? Or has it been a process to kind of get there and to actually realise that? Yes, this is what I'm, you know, was born for this is what I want to make out of my life. Alex Cearns  17:36   Yeah, another great question. When I first started taking photos in 2006, it was just fun. You know, it's just kind of, if I even showed you some of those pictures, now, I was good at cell phone to myself, only 9% sharp don't show any ones I was kind of good at, you know, learn and grew fairly quickly. You know, some photographers take a million photos and they stay at the same level. Some I've got some friends who take photographs and just accelerate in what they do really quickly. So I kind of had a really clear picture of what I was doing there. I just wanted to elevate my photography and take the best photos I could for me. And then in time, that kind of the hobby, I kind of thought, oh, you know, people started saying we photograph my pets. I realised within about eight weeks of getting that camera that animals were my focus. There's a really pivotal moment at a park with a friend and her family. And she said, can you take some photos for us of the family, and the daughter was doing some ballet twirling. And while she was twirling around, I kind of just kept spinning and a bird flew past. So when I got home, I had more photos of the bird than I did of her doing her ballet twirling. And that started happening more and more often. So I kind of you know, realised that that was a thing that I was gravitating towards. So I listened to that. And then it was just meant to be fun. I did a few pet shoots with people. They were I was charging 19 $95 for a disk of 100 photos of dogs outdoors, and I wasn't really enjoying it. And I kind of thought, you know, I just want to do wildlife photography and had some studio lights I was using for a rescue and a backdrop. And I thought I do like the studio stuff because I can control the environment a bit more. I can control the animals a bit more. And so I just really stuck with that. And the progression was just doing what made me happy. I honestly thought my best case scenario would be maybe working four days a week in my government job and doing photography on a Friday and a Saturday that would be my plan. And I opened my studio on the Fourth of July 2009. And by October 2010. So about 15 months later, the demand was so great that the business was going to collapse if I didn't give up the other job because I didn't have enough time I was travelling to airports a lot and I was away a lot. And I was like well, I either stick with what I've known for 20 years safety superannuation, you know, job security government, you know, get looked after, or do I just go and run a business and I knew nothing about doing and I didn't I have a lot of debt at the time. And I thought, You know what, if it all fails, I'll just gone working in a pet product store, be around animal people. And so, you know, dog treats. So if you ever see me working in a pet store, you know, it didn't turn out so well, that never happened. And so there was no pressure. But I also followed opportunity, and I took the opportunities as they came along. And I think that's really important to make sure you follow, you know, if something presents itself, you make good informed decisions at the time that aren't going to cripple you financially and cause your stress. But you're farther along, and I've literally been fully booked for, like, you know, the last nine years doing, you know, 30 to 40 sessions a month, consecutively and consistently all the way through. So, yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:41   wow, that is incredible. You know, that's just so inspiring to, to be able to thrive in the business in such a short period of time. You know, like, I think, as a photographer, the business side of it doesn't necessarily come natural to a lot of, you know, creative as well as photographer. I mean, you know, a lot a lot, a lot of time I realised that photographers are enjoying what they do. And so, you know, they don't compel to charge for what they do, because just being able to share their photo is already given them so much fulfilment, and this like, you know, a happy feeling. What are some of the some of the most important aspects on you know, within that turning point between you, you're starting to making it full time, that had to really become one of the most important thing to turn your photography from, you know, a siping as a hobby, all the way to being a full time a full blown, you know, running it as a business type of thing. Alex Cearns  22:00   Yeah, I think that's a really good point, you hit on, you know, I work with some of the best photographers in the world in my business coaching, but some of them have trouble getting clients in because they just don't have a, an ability, they don't have an ability to market in a certain way, or they don't have a structure to run clients through that's consistent and, and stable. And so you know, that having consistent communication at a professional ethical level, gives clients confidence in the business and wants, you know, it gives it a professional outlook. And so, for me, it was implementing systems and processes, I have this thing where I'm like, I don't have enough life left to live to spend 20 hours a day in the office, you know, I don't anything I can shortcut by clicking a button, good database in system with all my clients in there that sends emails and contracts. And so just automating things as much as I can, you know, just having a system. It's like building a house and you want to run your clients through the house through the tour of the house, but it's all systemized, you get them to turn up by marketing, you run them through, you don't want them to go into the, you know, like I say, the attic or the basement because they're out of bounds. So there's rules and boundaries in your communication, that a rule could be where they park on the day, what they were for a portrait shoot, and all that sort of stuff, when they have to pay for their order, all those clear communication things you need with clients, and then they get to the end of the house to they love it. So they give you their money. That's they're making their order and they leave happy, then they come back again another day and do the house tour all over it. No, come back as a repeat client, tell their friends, you know. So it's about kind of building a house, but it's a business structure. And, you know, for me, it was just really important to make sure, you know, when a client does this, I know I do that. And it's and it's consistent. You know, they do this, I do that they respond with this, I do that. So just having a system in place. Because I mean, I've heard that comment that you can take rubbish photos, and still make a lot of money in business, or don't entirely, you know, you might one person may be able to do that, because it's a gimmicky thing. But I don't entirely believe that I think you have to have good product for good money. That's the exchange, oh, great photo, and you'll give me great payment, you know, and unless you have a business system and structure to be able to facilitate those clients through, you can't sell to them. And it was interesting to see a lot of people just like to shoot for fun. And I remember I did a business talk a few years ago was on it was called Mind your own business or something. And this lady about two minutes in, got up and walked out. Anyway, a bit later on, I caught up with her and some friends and she's come up and said to me, I have to apologise to you for leaving your talk. And my friends here told me it was really good. And I should have stayed. And I said, Well, why did you leave? And she said, Well, you mentioned the word business. And I'm just a hobbyist. I'm not interested in running a business. So I thought it wasn't for me. And I said okay, what if though as a hobbyist, I said do you put your photos on social media? Yes, I do. What if I saw one and I wanted to buy it as if as a as a photograph, you know? Would you sell it to me? I'd be so excited to sell it to you Alex, is it great? So you know what products does it come in? What sizes? How much is it? How do I make the paint meant, you know, do I collect it do deliver it. What's the guarantee? Is it archival? How do you communicate with me about all this said that is what business means it's any sort of transaction. It's not about starting a business and having to then commercialise everything. I said, business can just be you selling a picture to someone that they've seen on Facebook, but they love. And she was like, Oh, I didn't realise that I said, That's what I was talking about. She was like, well, it's very silly. You know, like, business can be that simple business can just be, you know, to be honest, if we take photographs, we don't take pictures, you know, to take a photo on our, you know, our phone, and we don't go, wow, this is the best photo ever. And when you say, Can I see it? No photographer goes, No, it's just for me. You know, photos are for sharing, we can look at this photo I took, it's the best, you know, we put it on our websites, we show our family, even at a hobbyist level. So if someone then comes and says, Can I buy that, that's thrilling, you know, and that's a business transaction. So you don't have to be in a business where you get a business name, and a building and a gallery, if you don't want to do that, but just even knowing basic steps, in case someone ever asks, Can I buy that, you know, kind of important things to think about? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:11   Oh, that's spot on. And that is really spot on. And, you know, I think we have a journey as a photographer, you know, I know, I have, you know, we started with our mobile phone, and then we buy a entry level camera, and then it gets, you know, deeper and deeper into our craft. And, you know, a lot of photographers and especially the hobbyists, kind of have that mindset of, you know, business is this money thing, and therefore, you know, no, no, no, it's not what it's not for me. But I think what, especially the listeners here should consider is that, it's like, winning an award, you know, it being somebody buying you a photo, it's not necessarily about the money, but about that sense of pride that you know, somebody else want to buy your photo, to be hanging somewhere else, or to be used as a as a as a website. And there is a sense of pride there. You know, that's, that's a big sense of pride. And I think one thing that I want to touch here is that, you know, the more expensive you charge for your art, the more it's gonna get appreciated. You know, just think about if you buy this big canvas for $20. And, you know, somebody's scratching you like, dollars, right? Like you buy that for $1,000, there is no way you let any one near that is to scratch or even to dodges. That is a great point. I like, you know, it's very important, I think, for people to think about, and, you know, at the end of the day, all of this costs money, right? The camera costs money, the travel costs money, your studio lighting costs money, even if you do it as a hobby, they still cost money. So it's important to kind of consider that. Oh, that's fantastic. That's, I think that's that story is, is really great to, to share, you know, just to open up people's mind as was towards not necessarily having a business, but just understanding that side of things in case that happens. That's, that's amazing. Now, you know, you have mentor a lot of students and mentee, and what are some of the most important thing when people want to take their passion in photography, and do it full time to support their life? What are some of the most important step and most important thing they should consider? And make sure they understand before they jump into, into that side of things? Alex Cearns  29:00   I mean, firstly, you're in the best position to transition to a full time business if you're not under financial stress, because, you know, going into it, there's no I've had years ago, had someone write to me saying, you before I was coaching, but you have to help me, I have to make money. I decided I'll photograph pets to make money and I have to start next week. What do I do? And as she wrote, they never wrote back, which was kind of he told me a lot about them. But I kind of wrote back and said, Well, firstly, you know, you photograph animals because you love them dogs particularly can pick up if you're just photographed, you know, if you're not truly their friend so do you actually love animals? Do you know about animals? You know, do you know about safety? Is this really what you want to do? Have you just decided it's a moneymaker? What's you know, you need systems and processes and structure and the pressure of that to have I have to earn money next week doing this or I'm dead, you know, it's way too much like that's the worst case scenario. So anywhere where you have an existing job, you can slowly transition to not put yourself under immense financial stress would be my first recommendation because when You can just take photos, and a lot of photographers aspire to, you know, what we show was this well known famous landscape photographer made all this money on his pet photographer or whoever it is, they aspire to that. But you know what, when you can just take photos for the fun of it, that's the best type of photography, it's great to be paid. But I also have a job, I have to consistently deliver, I can't have a bad day, I'm just out shooting and I miss a few shots for myself. But no worries, I had lots of fun, I can't do that in my business, I have to get that shot every single time for my client. So there's a different pressure and stress still amazing, but it's it shifts, there's an expectation, and there's a consistency that has to be maintained. And, you know, you've you've got to do that, regardless, with pets of the level of training of that animal, you have to get the same photo of this untrained dog as you did have this really well trained dog, you know, that kind of got it because they want this photo they've seen. So I think just having listen as little stress and pressure as you can is, you know, the first thing, you have to make sure animals do you have images people want to buy, like I said, they have to be of a good standard that is actually has a commercial value. And then, you know, it's just working out in a slow progression, I don't think anyone should just go right I'm, you know, I'm going to drop this and start full time tomorrow, it's normally a progression with things, you know, he's off some of the other work, increase a bit of this work. And then as that rolls out the business, Rosa, it'll dictate to you, you know which paths you should take, and when you should jump off that cliff and kind of end up going full time. For me it was kind of go full time or the business is going to collapse because I couldn't do the orders I was getting behind on the emails, you know, that sort of thing. So and then having a plan. I mean, I certainly think, you know, working with a coach can facilitate you because they can help you skip the mistakes they made. You know, regardless of what genre of photography you do, this coach is out there for everything. And even that, I think, find a coach who has had the business you aspire to have, don't go for a jack of all trades, try and find the person that coaches in your genre, no matter what it is, and to find the person that does that, and has actually had a career successful career and that you would like to have to. So find someone to help you along the way. If you can invest in that that investment should pay itself back at some point. But having a plan and a support team, a lot of photographers to even the ones that I speak with, you know, some have really supportive partners, some don't have supportive partners and family, I think pet photography is you're never gonna make money off that it's silly. And that's really hard. So just even crossing that boundary around, right, we're not, you're not going to talk to me about it in that way, this is what I've chosen to do. And, you know, if they believe that, that's fine, but please don't let that energy come into me because I have to pursue this and I can't have that voice in my head saying you're gonna fail, no one's going to spend money on this, you know, like you said, we all doubt ourselves enough, you know, we don't need other people's opinions in there, too. You can make money successfully of anything, if you have a strategy and a way to market anything in the world. So you know, affect your pet photography is very popular, because there are a lot of pets. And there are a lot of good cryptographers out there who are doing really well in it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:01   Yes, that is so much jam. And you know what I likes I, I wish I had talked to you and interview you before I started all this because that would have saved me so much, so many miserable, like just, you know, being stuck and not knowing kind of where to go. But you know that that first point about Don't be in a desperate place. I think it's really important, especially in this industry, because we are in the creative industry, you know, when you when you're in a desperate place that creativity is gone. Like it's all about money, right? And then it's everything's different. So that is incredible. Now, one follow up question with that. You share how sometimes, you know, like, building a photography, business, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, there is a lot of work that goes into it, there's a lot of things that you need to consider, and also work out yourself. And you also mentioned that, you know, like sometimes it's nice not to have that pressure of just, you know, being able to shoot and kind of go with this like know what, get it great, no, no worries. You know, there's a lot of photographers out there who are thinking about pursuing this full time now, one question that I want to ask you is what's your advice for people who are on the line who who are asking themselves I'm enjoying this I'm at the point where I'm not sure I'm at a crossroad should I pursue it full time? Or should I keep it as a hobby and still do you know their own nine to five or whatever profession that they're doing? Alex Cearns  34:53   I think timing is very important. So right now I mean the whole world is in a state of You know, still upside down on its head pretty much with the pandemic. And that's brought with it a whole lot of financial impacts on lots of different people, depending on where you live, you know, I say to my pet photography clients, you got to understand right now there are very few people globally sitting at home going, you know, what I feel like a pet photo shoot, let's pay for that. They're not, you know, they think they're saying, you know, what, I feel like not dying today, not going to antes COVID funeral, not losing my job, again, not wondering how we're going to eat next week, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on globally, which is, in our lifetimes, unprecedented for us, you know, to be experiencing that. So I think timing is really important, I certainly probably, you know, now is a while, everything's kind of still in a pause, and kind of slowly coming out of that a little bit. With the pandemic, you know, having been locked down and stuff starting to ease a little bit in most places. You know, hopefully, I feel like it's a good it's been a year, people have used that downtime to make a plan. And that's really smart. You know, if you're sitting at home, you might as well make a plan for when this shifts, it will eventually shift in some way, shape or form, there may be a new normal in how we live, but we'll get there, there always is, there's always up swings and down swings and stuff that happens. So I think timing is really important. And again, because you don't want to put yourself in that desperate situation, that's a horrible place to be, and there's no enjoyment in thinking you can't pay your rent, if you don't make the $2,000 sale of this client. And then somehow, subconsciously, you're sitting there or nervous, and the client picks up on it and goes, oh, you know what, actually, I'm not going to spend anything today. And you're like, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, it's horrible. It's not fun. So I think timing, and looking at the market, you know, looking at the troughs, and peaks, you know, right now, I'd say the world's gonna do here a little bit, we're gonna wait till it's maybe up here a bit. So it's looking at when, you know, one of the things that happens whenever people are restricted and limited, like in a lockdown is when you let them out, they go crazy, you know, they want to go and spend money. And they, you know, if they have been in kind of more affluent countries, you know, people haven't been travelling, so they have some disposable income right now to spend on things that make them happy. People have been doing, you know, home handyman stuff and buying artwork for their houses. So perhaps some of the still life and landscape photographers can cash in on that kind of particular bit of the market. Be I think timing is very important, making sensible decisions and having a timeframe plan, I'm going to, I've got this much money in reserve, I can live off that without the stress. And I'm going to do this for six months. And if I don't get from this point to this point in six months, then you know, go back to whatever you know, something else, you kind of, can't keep throwing money at the wall, if it's not sticking, you know, at some point, it's got to lock in for you as well. So think my backup plan working at the store, you know, as my backup plan. And I think that is important too, to make sure you know that there's an out if you have to take it, you know, hopefully won't, you know, and then just go for it, put everything into it, why you've got to do that, you know, initially when I started, I was working 100 hours a week, it's crazy. Now I coach my clients with that knowledge on how to make their business work for them. Because I've gone through that, and now, you know, I shoot when it suits me, and my clients are happy with that. And I have all these boundaries about times I work and answer emails, and when I'm available, and I pass it on to my clients, so they're starting from scratch with, you know, a better system in place with work life balance, and they're not just strung out 100 pounds a week, you know, doing that stuff. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:20   That's, that's fantastic advice there. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure listeners at home, hear a lot of wisdom in that. Now, in terms of, you know, should they pursue their passion full time? What would you say to that? You know, should they keep it as a hobby? Or should they monetize it and do it as part of their lifestyle, Alex Cearns  38:48   I think monetize along the way, you know, with business, like even for me, it wasn't like, I'm just shooting now I'm going to stop and put a value on this into business, it was a transition. So anyone that's got another job has the blessing of being able to transition into that role. So I think start setting up some structures and practices along the way. So that may be just doing a Facebook post saying, Hey, I've been photographing the mountains, you guys have seen my pictures, I now offer these prints in three sizes for three prices, three by three, you know, or three products in three sizes for three prices, like this really simple philosophy about products and pricing. I mean, that's another thing a lot of photographers struggle with, what products how much, you know, just go with what you times that by three or four, I don't know what there's not, you know, there's all these different formulas, you've got to be comfortable with your pricing. You know, you've got to be think I kind of initially went by what would I pay? You know, what would I pay for this? You know, I didn't use any formula or anything. I was like, what, what's enough to make a profit and what would I pay for this particular product? Because in pet photography, I'm my own client. I'm an animal lover, and I see value in photographs on my client, you know, so if I want to know what my clients think I asked myself what I think and I get the answer. So I think I'm all for everyone for showing up. action into something more. But do it in integrated steps be like, Okay, for the next month I'm going to really promote that I'm selling these for money. Then I'm going to put a little shopfront on my website. You know, this great sites like red bubble, you know, if you ever want to go there, I started out there, you can go on there and you can put a photograph on anything shower curtain, I went on there and just dropped some colours like blue on this little template and printed it out as blankets for my dog, because the blue match the bedroom that they sleep in, you know, like, the paint on the walls, you can put stuff on mugs, clocks, clothing, they sell prints canvas, you can use all sorts of different, you know, products on there, even that, and you can have a markup on there. So you can do you know, particular print run and say I'm selling 50 of these prints through red bubble when they're sold. They're done. And in there, people go online, they pay red bubble, you get the profit margin, red bubble gets the wholesale price, even after red bubble dropships they print and ship to the client, like it's even at a starting point, then you move on to pro labs and you get more involved, you know, depending on where you want to go, but even just to getting a feel for that. There's always someone if anyone says I love this photo, then you think maybe they would bought what Right, right? How much do you love it? I'm doing a little focus group, what would you pay for these? What products would you buy this on a mug, I might do some mugs, you know, just something to start the ball rolling. You have to have that entrepreneurial kind of spin to stuff and start thinking about opportunities. Someone's saying they love your photo, don't just go thank you say thank you and say thank you and then private message him and go, hey, send you love my photo? If I put that as a limited edition print of 10 Would you be interested? Would you also be keen if it was a canvas? And also do you like mug so you know, like, just do some research? And yeah, if you can then you know transition that follow those steps. When you work towards something, stuff starts happening, then doors open minute you go, I want to be full time in this in six months, you'll be there in three because it you'll make it happen because you're taking action. So follow those steps take action. And when opportunities present, as long as it's not against your ethics, your morals are what you're comfortable with. Say yes. Even if it's scary, you know, suddenly someone comes in says great, I see you're selling the landscape pictures. Can you photograph? You know, do you do you know, commercial shots of buildings? Are you we want you know, 15 buildings photographed with this big job. And you're like, Well, I've never done I'd never know about commercial. Find out say yes, find out later. Yeah, I'll do that. Then I'll just get some quotes to you though. And then quickly do your research. There's enough groups and you know, other photographers, you can get Google and you know, there's, there's even, you know, some of the Getty Images has a cat image calculator price for stuff like that. Get on there and find the answer and then just an act like you've done it million times. Fake it till you make it Yeah, I do. I photograph buildings. I've got a fair 15 people things. They're going to be on billboards and magazines, I don't know, you know, just, you know, we can get overwhelmed with the job. But most of us who take photos, we can take a photo, why do we get so scared of these big things when it's just us doing what we do? When we get to, you know, had to photograph for grass to photograph for a movie poster dogs for a movie poster and had to go on set the last day of shooting. And I've never photographed a film poster, like, wasn't even on my bucket list. It was so outside my realm of thinking that I could do that. And I got so nervous I was I've got to go and photograph dogs. And I was like, Alex, you've got to go and photograph dogs, you photograph 1000 dogs a year, like just go and do your job. And I walked in there, and they all look to me, like, how should we set this up? Because they didn't know they do film? And I'm like, alright, we need the backdrop here. Okay, where do you want the trainer, and I just did my job, you know, and they weren't like, they don't know. So you know, I just do my job and got the photo, I really got myself a talking to about getting ahead in your head. So follow the steps, push forward, and by all means, yeah, I'm fully for anyone who thinks they can, you know, get to that point of being professional and successful in photography. It's brilliant, you know, but don't do it, where it's going to cause you great stress and be you know, and then not work how you want go slow, have a plan, and then execute it. And then when you have a plan, write down goals. Goal setting is really important. Every year I write down five things I want to achieve. And I put two or three things on there that are just insane that I'm like this isn't it. And normally within a month I've done the first two and a half and like wow, that was quick. And then next thing that random hard thing drops in and there's only you know one or two more things to go and you know if you don't achieve them that year, because they'll be moving on to the next year. But writing stuff down moves you towards it means you take action to making it happen. So yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:43   Wow. Like I want to do a slow clap here but speech just dropped a bomb there and listeners if you've been thinking about you know, starting your photography business, this right here, right You just gave basically a framework on how to get started. And that is incredible. Yeah. Again, something I wish I had, you know, figured out a few few years ago. So that is great. Like, I want to talk about your book, you put together a book. And yeah, so share with us, I'd like you to introduce your book and share it with Share, share with us how that came about. And what's, you know, what's the idea behind the book? Alex Cearns  45:31   I just, I've actually got seven. But the latest one was seven books. got seven. Yeah. This is the latest one that came out late last year, the one that I knew Yeah, that's the caucus guide to happiness. That sold a record number of copies in about two weeks. So that pretty much is sold out. Other than a few copies still in, in some stores, it's all sold out in the warehouse. I have one on animals with disabilities, because I'm very big supporter of, you know, saying, you know, this little dog with one eye is no different to a dog with two eyes. It's just a cute little dog that needs love and care and, you know, gives love and a lot of joy, I have a book on rescue greyhounds. Up until October, I had a little rescue Greyhound who passed away at seven, but she was awesome. Got one called Zen dogs, dogs meditating and the eyes shut. And there's a couple more as well. And it's an interesting story, how I got into books, these are all with publishing companies. So I get I get paid and money of the sales. And it's all it's all really fabulous. I first got into books, because I was asked by a client to the neck donate a photo for free of a rescue dog to a book about rescue dogs. And because it was for charity, I didn't get all weird and go, you must pay me for that. And I said, Do you know what your dogs the rescue the books were rescued, you can use that photo, just put a credit on it. So they did, then the book went really well. And now we're doing a second version of the book or part two. And one of my friends had a little rescue dog that the publisher wanted for the cover of the book. And I they are on the other side of that, Australia. But I had photographed that dog when she was over here visiting once. So I had these studio shots, the only studio shots of this dog. So my friend, the dog's owner said to the publisher, you need to go to Alex for the photos because none of the photos we've got there just on our phone, you need to go to her for one of these geo shots. So they came to me and said, Can we use your picture on the cover actually have colour here? And so I said sure. So that was this little dog on the cover they they pitched her out on the put on the cover. And so there's just a story book about rescue dogs. And you can see there's a few pictures. This is how my original picture was used kind of like this in the first volume. So said yes to that. But now I've got on the phone two editors from a publishing company, you know, talking to me about the cover of this book. I'm very careful when I you know make approaches to people, especially like editors, can you imagine they even go out to dinner with their friends and their friends are probably saying, Oh, I've got this great idea for a book. I was just thinking I could write you know, like, Oh, honey, like, I just want to have dinner, you know, because it editors everyone's writing them up for their great ideas. I don't want to be that person. You know, it's like, I've got some celebrity friends. I never asked him for a favour. I never go hey, can you introduce me to pink? They know pink? You know, I just because that's not the better boundary? No, no, I don't want to do that. So I but I don't miss an opportunity. So I had these editors on the phone, did the given the pitcher for the cover got paid couple covers of good income. And then just said to them, Hey, by the way, I have 4 million photos of animals in my image library. If you ever need animal pictures for anything, we'd like to do a book of something, please keep me in mind. very noncommittal didn't require yes or no art. So it wasn't even going on. He goes a book idea, you know. And literally two weeks later, my phone rang. And it was one of the editors and she just said Hi, do you want to do a book. And that was my first book with them. Then I did my second within the same year. And then I moved to a different publisher. And I've done all these ones with the same publisher since then. HarperCollins, who I just love. In New York, they come out globally around the world they've sold around the world, which is really cool. All because I just very casually put out I planted a seed, you know? And that's what I like to do if someone says, you know, if I'd, if I'd said, Do you need any animal photos? And then went no, I would have said Oh, that's okay. If you ever do please keep me in mind. I just leave the door open, you know, without, you know, putting any pressure on them or asking you know, Can you Can I do a book that would be like No. annoyed them and I wouldn't hear from them again. So yeah, that's uh, that's kind of how they come about. When I finished with that publisher. I put these end dogs pictures online on a website called Bored Panda. It's a great site with that. Websites and new sites troll for pop culture, kind of fun content. You know, funky, interesting stories about animals people found stuff. So I put this on Bored Panda and it went viral. And 24 hours later my phone rang and it said New York City on the phone and I was like New York City's ringing I'm very excited. I was about 1030 at night and I answered the phone and it was the Huffington Post. And this lady said, I work for Huffington Post. I've seen the Zen dogs photos on Bored Panda, can we please run these tomorrow in the health and well being section of the Huffington Post, it was probably about probably about a year before the US election and all the political campaigning was happening, not the last one, like four years ago, four and a half, five years ago. And everyone was a bit stressed, because there's a lot of information and a lot of stuff going on. So they're like when people really need like something right now that's happy. And it takes them away from all this politics. So I said, Sure. So they read them the next morning on the Huffington Post, and 24 hours after that, I had an email in my inbox from HarperCollins, New York saying, we saw the pictures on the Huffington Post, do you want to do a book. So just by getting content out there? Now, you know, no book guarantees the next one. So I still have to write a book pitch and have an idea and a concept and we work through it. And it has to be something that sells and something that hasn't been done before, in the same way and something that, you know, it also depends on my brand reputation, you know, are people going to buy the things I put out to people like me enough to go yes, you know, and get this book, because I know, she helps rescue and my social media following impact, and all that sort of stuff comes into play as well. No, because I have to contribute to, you know, promoting it and hope get the word out there. But yes, I feel very blessed to have all those books and the little one, this one's just was just, it was put together before COVID. And it's just meant to make people happy. It's it's really cute little animals that just make they've like the happiest animals on earth. They make people laugh, basically, they're really cute little things. And it's got sayings, but some of the sayings are things like, you know, now very relevant to COVID. Things like just hold on better days are coming. And you know, we'll get through this together. And they're always really cute little things that now have a different meaning post COVID than when we actually did the book. But I think that's partly why it went so well. You know, if what people joy, it's a simple happy book, sometimes the easiest concepts, you know, doesn't have to be anything too tricky. Just saying it makes people happy. They love it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:06   Wow. That's, that's incredible. So you actually made that book before the COVID hits? Alex Cearns  52:11   Yeah, I finished. Probably it was all submitted about four months before COVID. Hit maybe January. So maybe three months before COVID came? Yeah. And it was published the noise you submit the content takes about a year for it to be printed and edited and stuff. So yeah, and you before it came out, but came out? Christmas? Well, you know, COVID was kind of still around in most places. That's awesome. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:34   Yeah. And for the listeners out there who don't know what the clock is, which is the cover or to what the book is all about is basically an animal that you can only find in Western Australia. I'm pretty sure it's it's you can only find in Britain, this island, right? Yeah. And yeah, it's the cutest thing. It's, it's always smiling. It's the happiest animal on earth probably. Just look it up goes search. It's it starts with quo. A K is their rights, Alex Cearns  53:08   qu o double K, AKA Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:11   Obamacare. And you'll, you'll know exactly what we meant by, you know, the happiest animal on earth. But I like it's been, you know, an incredible hours talking to you, you know, you've dropped so many wisdom and advices. And it's just been so many learning, and so many takeaways that we can take from this conversation. Now, I always ask my guests is one question before we all end up the podcast. If there is one thing that you could give us an advice I know you have given Hibbs if there is one thing that you can give advice, either you know, as for photographers, or in or in more business sense, what is the one most important thing that you think people should consider and focus on? Alex Cearns  54:07   I think the best bit of advice is a lot of photographers doubt their own work and ability. You know, they have that that, like, Is this good enough. And the comparison to other photographers, and it's that thing, if you ask for 100 opinions, you'll get 100 opinions. If you have a photograph that you love, and no one else hates it, it doesn't matter. You know, there's stuff I love of mine the most is the really abstract, weird stuff that other people will get and go that's blurry. I'm like, No, that's art, you know? So don't let anyone ever tell you that, you know what they'll tell you but don't take it in, don't let it in, you know, have that just be like, Oh, that's I asked for your opinion. So I'm gonna get it. It differs to mine. You know, there comes a point where you might stop asking for opinions, and just trust what you want. You know, I like this photo, therefore, I like this photo. I'm going to print it. So just don't don't doubt your own assessment of your own work, you know, but also, don't be too hard on yourself. Not everything you take is rubbish, you know, you know when it's a good Photo. And notice self audit, you know, you get those people that post, you know, 100 photos on Facebook with the same thing. And you're like, you could have said that into shots, you know, pick the two best and use those don't do the two best in the 98. Okay, I'm not very good down to rubbish, you know, like, don't put the whole series on it. And yeah, and just forge ahead, seek help if you need it. You know, like you've said a few times, I wish I had someone I could have worked with in the beginning, I've spent 10s of 1000s of dollars and countless hours of life, I don't have, you know, that's gone on making mistakes that now I can help my clients not make ever again, you know, they start from I started from here, they're now starting from over here, and they can skip that through my knowledge. So find support, if you want to take it to the next level, find the coach that fits you. And just keep shooting, best thing you can do as a photographer is just shoot. And, you know, if you do end up doing it as a business, and you have days where it is sometimes like anything, sometimes there's days where it's just a job, which, you know, you don't want to stay in those days for too long. Because we're very blessed to do what we do. If you do just have a day off work and go and shoot for you, where there's no expectation, go and be in nature, beware makes you happy, and just shoot for fun without thinking I have to sell this product as a result, or it's got to be this certain type of photo, just have a have enjoy it, and get it back to what it used to be. And then you've got that balance between, you know, the commercial side and just doing it because you love it as well, because you never want to lose that, you know, you know, there are a billion West jobs in the world and taking photos, you know, so you never want it to become a bit of a chore where you're because it can be dealing with the public, you've got systems you got to do admin 70% of its emailing back about print orders, and you know, all that sort of stuff, it can bog you down. So you just have a good plan and make sure you always enjoy it and put time in there to enjoy it if you need to, as well. And don't ask for too many opinions. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:48   All right, well, that's great. Alexandra, you know, same with you, you know, I wish back then I knew a concept of mentorship. And I wish I knew that, you know, somebody that that could mentor me or that I can relate to that. I'd love to be mentor. But to be honest, like you know, back then I'll probably wouldn't take it anyway. I was like, damn. It's a progression. I feel that, you know, you have to go through it. And then you look back, you're like, Man, I could have just Alex Cearns  57:25   asked for two grand. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:29   everything started in one day. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's a great advice. And I love how you say, you know, find a mentor, that not just a mentor that is good, but a mentor that you can relate to that you want to be because, you know, just because they're good in their photography doesn't mean they will be a good mentor or even if they're a good mentor doesn't mean it will suit what you wanted to do. So it's really important. I think that is one of the most important thing when picking a mentor. So I'm glad that you mentioned that. Well Alex it's been such a pleasure to have you here. Now I am sure that the listeners want to you know find out more about your very cute you know Zen dogs and workers and all these very cute animals. So where can they you know see more of your work and you know, get in touch with you they want to to get that mentorship going and you know, save this years of gains and frustrations. Alex Cearns  58:37   Yeah, sure. My so my photography businesses called houndstooth studio and other Facebook pages houndstooth studio. If they search houndstooth studio by Alex Kearns that will pop up. And I also have a Facebook page that's a private group for photographers, small business owners and creatives so it's a little bit different to the standard photography groups. And that's called Inspire I NSP hyg HDR like Inspire is in higher up w

Hey Wicked Hunters, You might notice that I was MIA for 2 weeks, I had a stressful move from Canada to Indonesia.  But I am very excited to introduce to you Ryan Dyar. He's an extraordinary photographer who has such inspiring stories behind his journey.     He shared the story on how photography gave him a purpose in life and turned his life around - from getting discharged from the military, a college dropout working a dead-end job to a world-renown landscape photographer.  He shared one of the most inspiring journeys I've ever encountered from photographers so far, so make sure you listen till the end! If you want to learn more about Liz's work, you can find it here: https://www.ryandyar.com/ https://www.instagram.com/ryandyar/  https://www.facebook.com/RyanDyarPhotography/ Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------------ Transcription: Ryan Dyar  0:00   I'm at a dead end job wasn't making a lot of money, you know, just kind of bored. And I was, I had been discharged from the military, working my crappy job dropped out of college four times. And yeah, I just kind of had no direction in life. And, you know, picked up a camera and it became this reason to travel, it became a reason to go hiking. You know, it just it gave you at least me it gave me a sense of purpose. Like he said that Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:43   hey, wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion and share how photography helped give us hope, purpose, and happiness. And today I have a photographer who's been in the business for such a long time, and he is crushing it. Ryan Dyer. How're you doing? Ryan? Ryan Dyar  1:06   Doing? Well, man. Thanks. Thanks for having me, bro. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:09   man, like, you know, I heard you on a on a clubhouse. And I came right at the end of it. And I saw your work. And it's like, Man, I need to talk to this guy. He is just crushing it. And, you know, ever since that, I start watching some of your tutorial. And it's it's amazing, you know, the work that you put in your profits. It's incredible. So do you want to introduce yourself to the listener? And, you know, share a little bit about who is Ryan and what got you all in love with photography? Ryan Dyar  1:43   Yeah, I'm just some average landscape photographer from Seattle. Just like to point my camera at stuff. Getting into photography got almost 15 years ago now. Yeah, I was just bored. I was kind of, I lacked any sort of direction in my life. I didn't have any hobbies, I was just kind of a board human. And I got to a camera's a gift. And you started taking it with me just on road trips and things like that. taking it with me snowboarding you know, and you just kind of get bit by the bug. You know, some people would pick up a camera, and they never think anything of it. It's just snapshots to share with family and friends. But there's a select few of us who pick up a camera, start taking pictures, and then go, oh, this picture was better than that last picture I took I wonder why I like this a little bit more. Or though this picture sucks. I wonder why. And so you start researching photography and looking into it. And for me, it was back in the day finding Flickr. You know, I got on Flickr, and just started seeing Oh, there's a lot of people who do this type of thing. And they're really good at it. And how can I get good at this? And um, you know, 15 years later, I'm still sitting here going, how can I get good at this? But um, yeah, it just become became an obsession for me, you know, kind of filled this void I had in my life. So yeah, I mean, it sounds really lame and like, nerdy art guy. But, uh, yeah, just something with a clicked in me, you know what I mean? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:27   That is awesome. Brian, and, you know, like, this is what the whole podcast is about, you know, like, it's the same for my journey as well like, photography really give me that purpose. So it's amazing, you know, to hear that, and you know, to take it to where you are right now. What was like before photography, like, what do you do I know that you say, you know, you were kind of like, lingering around not trying to think what's next and stuff like that. But yeah, what was life before that? Ryan Dyar  3:56   I had a dead end job wasn't making a lot of money. You know, just kind of bored and I was I had been discharged from the military working my crappy job dropped out of college four times. And yeah, I just kind of had no direction in life. And you know, I picked up a camera and it became this reason to travel it became a reason to go hiking. You know, it just it gave you at least me it gave me a sense of purpose. Like he said that you know, now I have something to focus my energy on instead of just working my shitty job and going home and drinking beers and watching Netflix you know, there was Netflix wasn't around back then put a watching DVDs back when I used to watch DVDs. Yeah, so it just kind of gave me a passion that I didn't have for anything else. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:58   That's That's amazing. You know, thanks for sharing that. Right? You know, it's that's awesome. What so what what can you fall in love with photography? You know what, I know that you got that camera as a gift and you start taking photo and but what was the point in in that journey where you're like, you know what, this is really awesome and I want to you know pursue this, you know further and I want to get better at it. Is there a turning point anywhere in there? Or is it just a constant of hunger that you want to be off now that I know how to do is I want to be better at it. Ryan Dyar  5:34   It was funding Flickr, like I said it was, you know, it was just me with my camera taking these dumb photos of trees or mountains or whatever. And not knowing anything about photography. Actually, I took photography in high school, a 35 millimetre black and white film class. And I skipped class almost every day, and I almost failed the class, but I cheated and passed. I just I thought photography was the lamest thing. I I took it because I thought it'd be an easy a, I was a really bad student. So yeah, I, I was never into photography. I thought it was LAME. But um, you know, I got that camera as a gift. I started snapping photos, not to try to do photography, but just snapping photos. And then I found Flickr, that online community of photographers and started seeing others people who are really good at this. And that was when it clicked for me is, oh, I could learn how to be good at this. And that would be fun. And so yeah, it was just kind of finding great photographers online. And and it kind of sparked that interest in drive to learn what the hell I'm doing with a camera. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:49   That's cool. Do you have like any, anyone that like was, you know, that you remember as an inspired that you look through, you know, their work, and they're like, You know what, I want to be able to take that photo or be like him or whatnot. Ryan Dyar  7:03   The first guy I remember seeing and really loving his work, who was Michael Anderson. He's Colorado based, but he had taken many trips to the Himalaya. And those photos he had back then it must have been 2007 When I came across them. And I just fell in love with his work. And so that was the guy I looked at, like, Oh, this guy's awesome. And look how he frames his photos and, and his composition is just everything made me fall in love with his work. I still love his work to this day. But um, that was kind of the main guy. But I'd also always loved oil painters, Thomas Cole, Albert Bierstadt, I grew up watching Bob Ross on on public broadcasting channel, the guy with the afro paints the happy little trees. If when I was younger, I tried to oil paint and I sucked at I've got no no reason to be holding a paintbrush ever. But um, I tried to oil paint when I was younger, and I couldn't. But I still loved landscape oil painters. And so I took a lot of inspiration from you know, the those classic guys like Albert Bierstadt and the way he handled light in an atmosphere and stormy conditions and, and transitions from really dark areas in a scene to really bright areas. That that was instilled as a huge inspiration to me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:43   That's cool. You know, it's really interesting to hear your story and you know, you sharing this, the struggles early on in your life, you know, and it seems like you want it to be artistic and creative, but it felt like you know, it was a struggle that it was a barrier that you felt like you can't get there and I'm sure there are a lot of people in the listeners right now thinking like you know, I love photography but you know, I'm just not cut up or I'm not creative or whatever it may be and you know that that is something that goes through a lot of our head and thinking about that we're not good enough you know, we're not like this guys in Instagram that make this awesome photos. Was there a moment in time where you know, you become comfortable or you become confident that this is something that you can do and what makes you feel like you know, you can excel in photography and what can the listeners who have who are in this situation right now you know back when you were you were there can take out of your journey to help them push across this mindset that stopped them to pursue this Passion? Ryan Dyar  10:01   Well, I think photography as an art form is easier to get into than most types of art Well, yes, there is some, some people are very naturally talented with, with a camera. But I don't think you need natural talent to become a great photographer. Photography is one of those things I think anybody can learn to be good at it with enough practice and patience and, and investing in knowledge. You know, it's, it's, it's not like becoming some God on a guitar, some Eddie Van Halen type level guitar player. That's the dip, most people will never be able to get there. But with a camera, I mean, it's, there's these set rules that if you follow these rules to composition and colour, and transitions, and light, you can you can be a good photographer, there's people out there who follow those rules, and then somehow take it, you know, 20 steps further and become these legends. But, you know, there's people like me who I'm not naturally talented with a camera or with Photoshop, you know, I've just invested a shit tonne of time, you know, so. And the other cool thing is that, I mean, you never stopped learning in any art form, it doesn't matter what it is. You never reach the pinnacle of what you can do. You know, I'm 15 years into it, I'm still learning new things. Every year that I go, Oh, crap, I never thought about it this way. Or, you know, you try something new and processing you try something new compositionally. You know, if it's an ever evolving journey until you decide you're not interested anymore, or you die, I mean, it's, if you're really in love with photography, then you just stick with it. And you'll always be learning something. And you don't have to be naturally gifted, to become good at what you do with the camera. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:16   Yeah, so that's incredible. And you know, like, hopefully, a lot of a lot of you who are listening to this, who are thinking that you're not good enough to take that into heart. And you know, if that's if photography is something you enjoy, you heard it yourself from Brian, who's, you know, I think we can agree that he has made a good success out of his, his photography journey. Ryan Dyar  12:38   But the other thing is, is, is early on, it's easy to look at other people's work, compare it to your own, and then feel like oh, shit, I'm, I'm not as good as that guy, I'm not as good as that girl. I'm not, I'm not good enough to be able to, to, I'm not good enough to keep doing this, I should just give up. That that's the wrong way of looking at other people's work. In my opinion. It's easy to look at people's work and compare it to your own and feel bummed out. The healthy way to do it is to look at other people's work, and go, This is what I like about their work, and how can I take that and then spin that as my own thing, or take inspiration from the work instead of just comparing going there doing this awesome stuff? I'm not that makes me feel bad. Look at people's work objectively, I like this about their photos, I don't like this about their photos, and let that inspire your own work. You know, it's, I've always said in interviews like this that I treat. There's a lot of talk in the industry, or whatever this little community of landscape photographers is about people copying each other's work and all that. And I've always said that, you know, when, when you first sit down to learn how to play guitar, you don't write music, right? You you sit down with a guitar and you learn how to play Smoke on the Water with doing one of the most popular simple riffs of all time on guitar. You and you just kind of learn other people's music until you become proficient enough at your craft to be able to write music is the same thing with photography, you know, you know, take your camera out, take inspiration from other people's work, combine everything you'd like from all the photos you see. You kind of create your own Frankenstein monster out of it and piece together your own style and your own thing you want to do you know so, you know, I don't like a lot of the crap talk that goes on with younger photographers by more advanced photographers, saying how they're just copying everybody else because that's what artists do in the beginning. They didn't know artists sits down for the first time and create something insane Only good without any inspiration, you know? So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:04   thanks for sharing that, Ryan. You know, I wish this is something that I was, I heard earlier on my photography journey. You know, I think, for a lot of people who kind of just started as well, I'm hearing that, you know, it's not, sometimes when you start it, you just don't know, right? You know, what you know, and what you say there about, you know, taking inspiration from other people work and looking at what, what you like out of it and make it your own. That is such a great, you know, just phrase and it's inspiration, that little sentence itself, because the key is, take the inspiration, you know, like, copying is, you know, it's sure, like you might want to do like, the populars framing, we all do that. But, you know, taking that next step of taking the different aspects of that photography and creating your own, that's where you can differentiate yourself and create something that you actually proud of. That's, yeah, that's, that's an amazing advice that you just shared there. I'm creating Thursday, in terms of, you know, just talk about, you know, creating a photo that is like you need this yourself, you have any photo that, you know, that you are most proud of, in terms of you felt like that was the photo that you know, that you that was yours, or you know, photo that, yes, like, I absolutely take this, when you see this, this photo, do you have any photo in mind Ryan Dyar  16:33   that you I have, I have maybe five of those in my entire portfolio that I look at, and I go, this is what I want to do, this is what I'm striving to make and I did it. But the first time I'd ever got one of those photos was in 2000 is 2008 or 2009 in Glacier National Park. And it just everything came together perfectly I was I found this scene that that I hadn't seen photographed before this nice waterfall leading down this hill you know, grassy mid ground with big heads a Bear Bear grass growing up, it's like these big stocky flowers. And then off into the background of these peaks and a waterfall coming down and, and I remember finding that and shooting it and getting incredible light. And going this is what I had been striving for. And I nailed it. That and the memories from that day I was sitting there by myself in this waterfall, watching this crazy light go off. And then there were there were mountain goats walking by, like coming within a couple of feet and just sitting there and watching them then looking at the light and taking my photos and it was just this all encompassing moment of this, this is this is why I do this. You know and and to have that experience early on. That was one of the moments in my career. Now that this is a career for me, that that kept me motivated and kept me stoked on photography. And I think those it's interesting, there was probably five photos I have that I think are like really make a statement about what I'm trying to do with the camera. All of those photos also have incredible memories attached to them. And so maybe it's it's weird and lame as it sounds you like trying to be some deep artist or whatever. I think it's interesting that the photos I think are my standout moments with the camera all have really good personal memories attached to them you know and so, so maybe I think they're really good photos and other people might not but I get emotionally attached to certain photographs of mine just because I remember the place I remember the smells I remember what was going on in my life at the time. You know, maybe I was struggling with something or maybe I was really stoked on something. The I get personally attached to those photos and and those five that I have that are my favourites all have really good memories attached to them, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:28   Yeah, that's interesting. I feel the same way about my photography most of my photography that are really love or have really amazing like memories attached to it. Just out of curiosity, do you find that? You know like going back to what you say like you really love that. But is that you know, is that what your audience love? Or do you tend to find that your audience like more like your photo that are more relatable? What I mean by that is like a photo that are more in A popular landscape and stuff like that. Yeah. Ryan Dyar  20:03   I I always think the, the viewers don't connect with an image the same way we connect to their images just because we have those memories of shooting them. And maybe we accomplished something with that photo that we're trying to do that. Nobody else knows we're trying to do this thing with this photo. Yeah, so I, you know, that's why I don't pay too much attention to likes and comments and things like that, because you get too wrapped up in that you start shooting for likes and comments and thinking about, Okay, well, this will do well on Instagram. I try not to think about that ever at all. I just do what I like to do. It's to the point where now, I don't even look at a lot of photography anymore. One because I, I've looked at so much photography and been inspired by so much over the years that I've kind of got my own thing, you know, I have found my own way of doing things in my own style. And while Yeah, it's still good to find influences here and there. I'm also at the point in my career where I want, I don't want a lot of outside influence anymore. You know, I want to influence my own path, you know, I've gotten proficient with my tools. And now I kind of want to, you know, taking it back to the music analogy, I've gotten proficient with with my instrument, and now I can write music. So that's kind of the stage I'm at now is I don't want to have a lot of outside influence. But um, yeah, I don't look at Instagram a bunch. I don't look at photography websites a lot. And part of that is I don't want to shoot in a way that I think is going to be the biggest mass appeal. In I don't want a tonne of outside influence. So So yeah, I I definitely don't think about the viewer. When I'm taking the photo, it the only thing I think about is, how is this composition going to help hold somebody's attention within the frame? That's the only thing I think about. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:21   Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting perspective there. I know, I struggle a lot with that, you know, especially on my first second year of my photography journey, you know, looking at those awesome photos, it really you write it like it takes me to this path. I was like, Wow, that's awesome. A mastic you know, photo like this. Yeah. So like finding that balance is all it's really hard. But one thing that I really like about what you say there is, you know, like, you're you're talking about the photo that you one of those favourite photo that you still remember that smell and the feeling unit. And we know that photography is the medium right photo is a speaks 1000 words as well, people say it's a medium to share those stories. And you just mentioned that you're thinking about how your composition can hold and share those stories to your audience and, you know, being able to convey the emotion that you have. So I'm, I'd like to hear a little bit about, you know, what are some of the ways that you find really useful and effective that you do in order to be able to convey that the emotion and the story behind behind the camera, when you actually experience it yourself? at that particular moment. Ryan Dyar  23:43   I'm a very emotionally stunted human. I don't really I don't look at it so much as I'm trying to convey some emotion or some deep thing. For me, it's just about sharing my interpretation of a scene, you know, what they were what I looked at the scene and go, This is why I like this place. And I'll try to put that into a photo I don't I don't get too deep into the meaning behind the photo thing. A lot of people get really deep into that, and I'm just not emotionally intelligent enough. I don't think to consider those things in my work. Yeah, for me, it's just about trying to find a way to keep somebody's eye in the frame as long as I can. And so that's using things like leading lines or balancing foreground subjects, lines that lead off into a mid ground and then that mid ground somehow ties into the background. So it's just about keeping the eye moving throughout the frame from front to back in the slowest way possible, if that makes sense. You know, I I think the biggest thing people overlook in compositions are mid grounds, mid grounds, to me are so important. So all of my photos that I think will work the best all have really strong mid grounds, it's easy to draw it to, like a mountain scene, and go, Oh, here's, here's some flowers, and there's a mountain in the background, and you snap the photo and walk away and you've got a decent shot. But without any mid ground, tying the foreground and background together, it's just flowers, mountains, done nothing else to look at. It while I used to shoot a lot of scenes like that, and that was like, my bread and butter is I just, I found a cool looking mountain, I found some interesting flowers, and I got really low and wide and, and shot the scene of just flowers and mountains. And it makes a nice pretty photo. But it it's also very straightforward. It's not complex at all. And so, you know, these past several years I've really been focusing on on mid ground and how to tie a foreground into a mid ground and a mid ground into a background. Just to keep the viewer interested in there's more to look at, and especially like bigger prints, you know, mid ground doesn't, you know, you can't convey it very well on Instagram on, you know, on your iPhone. But in bigger prints, those are the things that I'd like to look at. And a big print is all the little interesting details in the mid ground and background. You know, if I'm, if I've got a big print on my wall, the foreground flowers aren't going to be when I walk up to the print and look closely at you know, I'm looking closer. There's a little waterfall back in the background or look at that little lake that's down there in the mid ground. So that's kind of what I'm focusing on lately. And again, it's not me trying to tell some emotional story. It's just me trying to hold the viewers eye as long as I can. You know what I mean? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:58   It's that's really interesting. I know that, you know, a lot of landscape photographer are focused on the foreground, right? You know, most people say it's like, oh, yeah, make sure you find a good foreground. But yeah, that's, I think you're the first person that says, you know, find an interesting mid ground. That's really interesting. Ryan Dyar  27:18   Good foreground. So very important, if you're shooting wide angle stuff. You know, the foreground is how we it's how we enter a scene, you know, it's how you feel like you can walk into it, you know, you know, long lens does it say you take a 300 millimetre shot of a mountain with some interesting clouds and what you don't feel like you're walking into that scene, the same way you do with big, wide angle, like grand landscapes. So foregrounds are super important, for sure. Because that's how we that's how we enter the scene. But um, you want something to look at beyond entering the scene, you want them to go, Okay, where am I going past this foreground? If that makes sense? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:59   Yeah, that's, that's really cool. So in terms of the photo that really excites you the most you have a particular scenery or, you know, or genre, I suppose, in landscape photography that you you that excite you the most. I know you do a whole bunch of different stuff from seascape you know, you do a lot of mountains as well as like, you know, storm chasing with which, which is high on my bucket list, but I my plan got got shut down by COVID Last year, unfortunately. But yeah, like, is there any any part of it that really excites you that you know, if there was one that you could choose? Which one would that Ryan Dyar  28:41   be? Mountains, easy mountains, if if I could only shoot one one subject for the rest of my life, it would be mountains I think that's because that's when I first started shooting. If that was me taking my my camera with me snowboarding, it I grew up in Portland, you know, just 30 minutes away from Mount Hood, pretty much. And so snowboarding was a huge part of my childhood in my teens and early 20s. I'm too old and fragile for it now at 37. But um, yeah, that's, that's where I love to spend my time when I was younger is in the mountains. And so I think that just translated into photography for me. It also mountains are pretty easy to photograph, I find it's a lot easier than easier than photographing a desert or a seascape. So maybe, maybe I choose that because it's easier than everything else. And I'm a lazy photographer. But um, yeah, I just love the mountains. And when I first made a trip to Glacier National Park, in Montana with a camera that was like, huge. I thought, you know, because I've been shooting In Canada, my local mount on Mount Mount Hood Mount St. Helens Mount Adams just here in the Pacific Northwest Mount Rainier. But um going to the Rockies and shooting the Rockies for the first time was life changing for me it Glacier National Park is still a place I go to all the time. Still have fun photographing it. Still have you know, new places out there I want to see in photograph. So yeah, it for me the mountains all day, every day. If I had to choose one, that would be Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:35   awesome. Yeah, like, you know, a spent two years here now almost. Yeah, a little over two years in, in the Rockies. And I know exactly what you mean. It's it's funny, because when I was I used to do a portrait here. I would take their photos and and they would send it to their families. And they think it's a it's a green screen. It's Ryan Dyar  30:56   beautiful. That is the Canadian Rockies up there. Just gorgeous. I was supposed to be back last year again. And, you know, they don't let us Americans over the border anymore. But uh, hopefully later this year, we'll see. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:10   Fingers crossed, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully like, Yeah, I can't wait until he can travel again. Yeah, me too. That'd be awesome. So I was reading up on your, on your bio here. And then you know, what, one of the thing that you wrote here was that, you know, photography had helped you guide towards being a better human. So I think that's really cool to hear that. And if you could, like, you know, elaborate and share with us, you know, how does photography have impacted you? I know, we can touch base on you know, how it gives you like, purpose and stuff like that. But is there anything more to it than that? Yeah. So. Ryan Dyar  31:53   So I was a, I was an opiate addict when I was younger. And, and when I got clean from drugs, that's when I picked up a camera. I had this void in my life that was, you know, drugs Once filled, and then no longer filled. And so it was just kind of trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to do in my life, you know, dead end job, you know, didn't have a lot of friends anymore. You know, because all the friends I had were drug users. And so I had to cut them out of my life. And I picked up the camera and started travelling, and then yeah, kind of filled this void and gave me a sense of purpose and something to do while being sober. And then I kind of grew up with a camera in a way, you know, I was, I was a young adult, you know, it was in my 20s. But I started a lot of growing up to do and yes, I mean it through photography. I met my best friend in the world. Myles Morgan. Don't let him know I said that about him. He's, uh, yeah, the the, my best friend of the world who on paper, he and I should not be best friends. But I was this newly sober snowboarder, kind of punk rock dude. And he was 13 years older airline pilot, very successful well to do, man and, and we met through photography, just, you know, we met up in Mount Hood one day, and just hit it off. And, you know, 15 years later, he was the best man in my in my wedding. I was the best man at his wedding. So I met him and he was he was this well to do man who I looked up to, I still look up to a lot, but I'm kind of, okay, yeah, it's time to grow up. You know, I've, I've got to be more of an adult now. And so having his kind of guidance and friendship and mentorship in Life helped a lot and that I met my wife through photography. You know, she's choosing photography. She commented on one of my posts on Facebook who long time ago, and then as creepy man does, I was like, Oh, cute chick comment on my stuff. And I looked at her profile and then responded to her comments just because I'm a piece of shit. But yeah, we just got to talking on Facebook about about oil painters of all things is not about photography, but photography is kind of how we connect it. And yeah, and so now I have this wife and this family and my wife is actually the reason I'm doing this for a living in 2012. I moved up to Seattle with with my then girlfriend, my now wife was having trouble finding work. You know, I always work kind of crappy dead end jobs. And I couldn't find work for a long time. She was supporting the family. After we moved, and we got it, we got into a big argument one night, like one of those really big blowout arguments you have in a relationship. And it was because I was so frustrated about not finding work and not contributing to the family like I should be. And she was a pianist, you try to do photography for a living. And I thought that was the stupidest idea I've ever heard. She said, Well, what else are you gonna do? That's, that's the one thing you have that you're, you're good at. And if you try it, just see what happens it, it can't hurt. And so I've reluctantly decided to try it. And it's almost 10 years later now, and I'm, you know, this is my career, it's I pay my bills, I pay for my house. And, and, yeah, so I don't think photography was what helped me in my life. It was the relationships I made through photography, that, uh, that really changed my Maya, my path in life, you know what I mean? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:06   That is incredible. Right? Wow. You know, thanks for opening up and sharing them. That's, uh, I know that, you know, I've heard stories of people going to finding photography and get to the, you know, their addiction as well. But, you know, hearing it firsthand from somebody who, who make a full time and a successful career out of it, such an inspiration and, yeah, that is incredible. Appreciate. I know, it's not easy to, to open up like that. And, yeah, appreciate. So. I know that there's a lot of people out there who are thinking about, you know, pursuing their career, they might be, you know, on the same situation of, you know, like, I'm not enjoying what I'm doing. And, you know, this, this, this, this nine to five, or whatever they doing is not, it's not doesn't really spark their life, and they wanted something more out of it. What are your thoughts and, you know, advice for people who are thinking about pursuing photography, especially landscape photography, you know, like, it's, it's considered one of the toughest way to earn a living from, especially when you're just starting out. So I'd love to hear your your take on that. And your advice, Ryan Dyar  37:25   put in the time, pay your dues, get really good at what you do. You know, if, if you're not creating images that are unique, that stand stand out as your own, you're going to have a tough time making a living at it, because the market is so saturated, there's so many photographers right now. And so you have to find a way to make your photographs that are distinctly yours, you have to get good, you have to be, you know, I'm an okay photographer, and I'm able to make a living at it. But, you know, if I was on year 123, of when I was a photographer, I was I was bad, I was a really bad photographer, and I don't think I could have figured out how to make a living at it. But um, it's a grind, man. I mean, you've got to find your niche and what you do that nobody else is really doing. And focus on that and try to become the best artist you can be. And become so, so different, and so distinctly you that people have to take notice in what you're doing. Do you know, it's hard for me. While I've had a good career so far, and I'm paying my bills with what I do, being self employed, it's not easy. The stress of wondering about the future and, you know, paying for your health insurance and you don't have some company matching your retirement fund, you have to invest in retirement yourself, you have to, you know, worry about the future, okay, 15 years from now, am I still gonna be able to do this for a living, you know, it's, it's a very emotionally taxing business to be in being self employed as an artist. Especially, you know, with COVID, like, so many people relied on running tours as their sole source of income, and then COVID happened and those people, Hey, all of a sudden, you're, you're out of income for two years, you know, and that's, that's terrifying. I'm lucky, you know, tours and workshops, were only a small part of my business. So I've been able to maintain throughout this this mess, but um, I've seen a lot of people really struggle the past a year. And so it's If you're thinking about doing it for a living, really consider the emotional toll it takes on you. It's, it's not, it's not easy, you know, having a guaranteed paycheck, you wake up, you, you punch the clock from nine to five, you know, you're getting paid, you know, you've got health benefits, you know, you've got a retirement fund, your boss may be an asshole, but at least you know, from from 5pm to 9am, you don't have to worry about the company, you don't have to worry about, you know, the future of the company, you know, you don't have to be concerned with the company's revenue. So just really think about it before getting into it for a living because it's it's not glitz and glamour. It's not just going out and shooting all the time. And it's a lot of stress and worry and planning and business and marketing and, and all that crap that comes with it. So make it work, make it work, because there's nothing better than getting paid for what you love to do. But there's also nothing worse than being having the entire company on your shoulders. And going salpa works out and 20 years, we'll see you know, so yeah, it just just think about it hard before you give up something really good. You're paying your bills, you've got financial security and a future. It's, it's hard for me to tell anybody to give that up in pursuit of something really hard to accomplish. You know, I'm a full time college dropout who discharged from the military medically, I work dead end jobs, I've got nothing to fall back on if if this doesn't work, I'll probably go work in a warehouse somewhere or, you know, go be a waiter somewhere. Who knows. But so, you know, maybe if, if you're giving up a successful career to try this, maybe you have something to fall back on if it doesn't work. And so maybe there's more security there, but I don't have that sort of security. So it's a little freaky being being a business owner right now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:11   Do you find that, you know, that, that, that, that circumstances of not having anything to fall back on one of the keys, you know, to push yourself and make it work and you know, not give up? Because I know like you know, a lot of times, like like you say, you know, this is not an easy thing to do to make you work. But a lot of times when you have a fallback sometimes you know, we think about, well, you know what, if it doesn't work, I can always have this to fall back on. So you might not put as much effort on it. So just wondering if you think that is part of the key success to your, to your journey. Ryan Dyar  42:52   Yeah, I think partly did not having a safety net definitely is a motivator. It keeps you striving and hustling. But um, yeah. I also just think there's a certain type of person who, who can pull this off. I'm not the type of person I'm talking about, I don't know how I'm able to make it a career this, I feel incredibly lucky and blessed and, and undeserving. But there's, there's certain type A personalities out there who just, they set their minds to something, and they just go do it at any cost. They'll they'll just jump headfirst and make it happen no matter what. I'm not that type of person. And so yeah, I think not having the safety net is my big motivator. It's not because I'm some type A personality who strives for success. This is just my only option for making a living decent living, you know, I can make a crappy living some doing something else. But how to make a decent living, this is my option. So I've got to just stay hungry. You know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:00   you are so humble. Brian, you know, it's a lot of how you say that you're not you're not made for this, but you make it work anyway. And, you know, I think that's, that's a true testament to a lot of people that thing that they might not be able to make it work because if they put the hard work that and the dedication that you do, you know, the results is there, like you know, it's it's a proven so it's, it's such an inspiring story to listen to that. It's amazing. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. So going back to what you say there, you know, about, you know, like, with the social media and everything's being out there, it's really hard to stand out. And now there's so many good photographers, it's not it's not that it's, it's not that it's hard to be a good photographer. It's actually it's hard to be to stand out among all these awesome photographers. And you talk about this notion of, you know, like, if that's something that you want it to do, especially to pursue full time, need to be able to find that this differentiation and that uniqueness that, you know, put yourself aside from other photographers. If you were to go back and you know, to your, to the beginning or you know, during the messy middle of your photography journey, what are the different things that you could share with, with our audience on how to actually create and present that unique perspective or Unique Photo or unique story so that they can differentiate themselves and have more chance to success in this saturated niche? Ryan Dyar  45:40   Yeah, I think it's, it's like we talked about earlier, it's, it's taking bits of inspiration from every photographer, artists you like, for me, a lot of it was taking inspiration from not from landscape photographer, landscape photographers, but from landscape oil painters, just the way they handled light and, and contrast and an atmosphere was different than a lot of people were doing with photography at the time. And so for me, that was kind of how I approached processing my images. And that made me stand out from from other people who were kind of doing similar stuff that I was doing. So yeah, it's just finding the little things you like in other people's work, and combining them into this new thing that hasn't been seen before, you know, maybe this person handles texture in a certain way, that's interesting. But then this person handles highlights in a way that's different than what other people are doing. And so you find all these different things that you like, and you can combine them into one thing that nobody else has combined these these things before. So yeah, it's a lot of just looking at it, a lot of photography and finding what you like and people's work in and figuring out how to incorporate that into what you do. I think that's the only way to stand out is to just kind of cherry pick certain things and combine them into this new thing. If that makes sense. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:16   I love how you, you know, take inspiration from oil painters, you know, I think that's something that a lot of us might not consider. You know, I know when I first heard of that, when you just say earlier, it's like, wow, that is that is incredible, because, you know, different, different, I suppose, you know, the thing that's gonna make make make your photo unique is the different perspective and the different thinking. And you got that from from the oil painters as a as an inspiration. So that's, that's really cool. Ryan Dyar  47:44   Yeah, I urge anybody to go check out our beer starts work. It's, it's truly incredible work that I think you can take a lot of inspiration from and put into your photography. So I urge people to check out his stuff. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:04   Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I could definitely get to check him out right afterwards as well. So that's, that's awesome. Cool. Right. And it's been awesome conversation. I'd love to hear your stories, your struggle and how you get here. And it is such a massive inspiration to see the amount of work that you put in your craft and the journey. It's It's just incredible story to hear. You know, that whole progress that you do one question, one last question that I want to ask you if there was one thing that you could, you know, give as an advice that you feel like the most important thing that they need to think about to other photographers, whether they just started or you know, they have been in it for a while. What would that one advice be? Ryan Dyar  48:55   Hmm. We already talked about mid grounds, so I won't say that. Here's one don't be afraid to shoot handheld. You tripods are good and all that you know, it's nice to use a tripod but I see so many people using tripod and I did it for the longest time it wasn't for it until like the past three or four years that I've realised why am I using a tripod it could shoot this handheld shooting handheld more often it's more freeing it's easier to find compositions when you're just walking around handheld with your camera you know if you can shoot at a shutter speed fast enough to to handhold didn't do it. There's no reason to use a tripod if you don't need to. If you're not blending exposures or focus stacking shoot handheld It is sometimes I've been focused on handheld you know the older I get the shaky or my hands are so I don't do it quite as well as I used to but um yeah, tripods can feel limiting sometimes. So yeah, shoot handheld more often. It's it's fun Wow. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:01   That's awesome. That's a great advice, something that I haven't heard before. So that's, that's great. Well, Brian, that's, it's been a pleasure. It's been such an amazing inspiration, hearing your stories. For the listeners who want to learn more and see how they can, you know, not only get in touch, maybe work with you, what is the best way for them to get in touch with you? Ryan Dyar  50:24   Well, first off, thanks for having me on. And let me tell my my dumb little story of how I've gotten where I've gotten. Appreciate it. Yep. Ryan dyer.com. Ryan Dyer, on Instagram, Facebook, everywhere. Just Brian dire dire with an A Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:44   antastic Yeah, I'll make sure I'll put that on that on, on the description as well. So you can get there, you know, you can check on the description. But look, first of all, I just want to thank thank you for being here. sparing your time. But second of all, I want to thank you for should say most of all, for opening up and sharing your struggle that is such an inspiring stories. You know, I see a lot of, I've met a lot of successful photographers out there, but you're the first person to doubt her to such a big struggle and turn your life around to make this such a try being successful. And, you know, when I say successful, not only monetary, but you know, you're doing something that you fulfilled in your life. I think that's a much bigger success than any money can buy. So kudos to you, man. You're such an inspiration. I'm listening to this just getting goosebumps right now. Ryan Dyar  51:42   Thanks for letting me talk about it. I'm sure there's a lot more people with a very similar story to mine in a lot, even more people who weren't able to turn their life around, so I'm happy to talk about it. You know, I think it's something we should talk about more. Just the struggles people go through, even if they seemingly have some cool career, you know, it's always a struggle. So happy to happy to open up about it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:10   Yeah, that's awesome. And, you know, I think with this new era of things that looks happening in the instant, it's really important that people realise the amount of work you have put to make this work. So that's something absolutely. All right. Well, I'm weekenders. Hopefully you enjoy that conversation that is so much inspiration, as well as wisdom within that with what Ryan had shared. So make sure you check out his work his works is absolutely amazing. He also offer awesome tutorials, which you can check in his in his social media as well as his website. So highly recommend you to check it out. And you will, I can promise you, you will get blown away. It's just but I'm glad that you tune in. And if you haven't already, so click the subscribe button. So that you know next time, you know, I interview other inspiring photographers, and I'll see you next week. Until next time. All right, thanks. Thanks a lot, Ryan. I appreciate your time. Man. That was great. Ryan Dyar  53:20   Thanks for having me, man. I really appreciate being here.  

Hey Wicked Hunters, I am absolutely excited to talk to Mads Peter Iversen about his story and struggles to get to where he's at right now. Mads has built his following to 829k on Instagram and 109k on YouTube. Now that I have your attention let's talk about what really matters! Mads is a world-class photographer who's absolutely humble and approachable. We had a chat about how his passion for landscape photography started and the sacrifices he has to do to get to where he's today. If you want to learn more about Liz's work, you can find it here: https://www.mpiphoto.dk/  https://www.instagram.com/madspeteriversen_photography/  https://www.facebook.com/MadsPeterIversenPhotography https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrWU2BpF6zvRFnkYHDDYHDg  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------- Transcription: Mads Peter Iversen  0:00   I remember when I started thinking like that, it was a little bit frightening. I had a plan, I went through the usual educational system, and then I could come out and become a school teacher for the rest of my life. And I was like, I don't want to do that Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:26   hey, wiki hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion as photographers and how photography bring us hope, purpose and happiness. And today is such an special occasion for me, myself to be able to introduce a world renowned photographer, who I mean, you know, he's, he's just amazing is and you will hear a lot about him his journey and what got him to where he is right now. Matt, Peter Iverson, how you doing? Mads Peter Iversen  1:04   Thank you so much for that very nice introduction. It's, it's when people introduce me like that. I'm always like, what? It's, I got only been here, like, you know, five years on this scene here as landscape photographer, been doing it full time for five years. So when they say world renowned, yes, okay. I know how to use social media. But I think that's about it. Right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:38   Oh, you're very humble. And I love that. And, look, you know, welcome to the podcast. And I absolutely love having you here. You know, your work in the northern part of the Earth is just amazing. And I'm sure we can get more into that. But before we get into that part of it, share us. Share us a little bit about your journey and how you get to where you are right now, you just mentioned that you know, you've been doing this professionally, five years. But what really got you here? Why do you want to be a landscape photographer? Mads Peter Iversen  2:20   Yeah, so in the first half, it is by now of my photography career, which is lasted about 10 years time or something like that. I mainly focused on like, very broad photography in general. And then I kind of went very much into portrait photography, and headshot photography. And I learned all that. And I figured out that there was people who wanted me to take the portraits and stuff, so I could earn a little bit there. I also did a little bit of video editing. So I kind of knew how to also make videos. So in that way, I very fast figured out that there is a market here that I can earn a few bucks from relative to in the direction of the job, I kind of wanted back then. And then at some point, I got a little bit more into landscape photography. And then a tour to Iceland was obviously what set it off. Like I think that's what happens with most landscape photographers. So I spent like, three weeks in Iceland, I had a little bit in the middle where I was doing some job stuff, so to cover the costs of that tour. But besides that, I have basically had to two and a half weeks also myself photographing in Iceland back in autumn 2015. And that just sold me like I just absolutely fell in love with landscape photography and figured out that's what I wanted to do. So I also recorded quite a lot of video footage back then I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to use it for, like those compilation videos to three minute compilation videos from different countries were quite big back then. But also fast figured out that I didn't want to exactly do that I didn't want to burn off all my footage in just one video, which probably wouldn't even go viral. And then I kind of figured out that, okay, I could make like a video per location I visited and then make it into like some guiding stuff in regard to Iceland. And I think that set me apart as a landscape photographer on YouTube to begin with, and Dennis has basically just grown from there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:39   That's fantastic. And so before you do photography, what were you doing? Were you always in the field of photography, or were you Mads Peter Iversen  4:47   not at all? Not at all. If we go way back like after germination, which is like the American high school, I went I had Read my military service, which was only four months back then. And then I started studying physics and astronomy, which was what I wanted to do like, basically my entire youth that lasted for three months, then I figured out I didn't want to do that, too much math in that. But I still have my big interest for physics and astronomy and science in general. So after that, I didn't really know exactly what to do. I've been a gymnasts, gymnast and gymnastic coach for my most of my teenage life back then. So I kind of just figured that, yeah, I could start being a teacher. So I started studying to become a teacher that lasted for four years after that, I figured I didn't want to go out and be a teacher in primary school. So I, in Denmark, you get what's called a professional bachelor, when you're a teacher. And after that, you can build a master's degree on top of that. So I did do that just after. And that took about two and a half years to get my master's degree in educational philosophy. Because I had a huge interest for philosophy. That spectrum between science and religion was super interesting for me. And after that, in them that time when I was doing my Masters, my interest of photography really exploded. And that was where I, along with studying also could earn a little bit on the side. And then for the next couple of years, I was in that, should I go down the path of being a teacher? Or should I try to pursue this photography stuff. And after having, I decided to take a job in a photography store, instead of taking a job in the primary school. And after half a year in that store, I figured out that the photography store working there is not the same as being a photographer. So I was just like, done with that. And I was like, Okay, let's try it. I'm young, I can, let's see what happens, I can always fall back and become a teacher in the school system if I wanted to. So let's just pursue the photography stuff. And that was kind of where it said off. Wow, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:11   that's amazing. I think it's great that you have like, tried so many different things. And, you know, like me, for myself, like I was, I don't think I had that, that. That ability to be able to, you know, quit, especially where I was, you know, that with the culture that I had. So it was really hard decision when I decided to pursue full time. So that's that's really very courageous for you to to say no, I think that's one of the hardest thing is to say no. And I Mads Peter Iversen  7:45   would add to that, that due to my culture here in Scandinavia, and our countries and how our systems are, we are extremely privileged relative to the rest of the world in regard to making the choices that we want to take in. And for our own life. Like we we don't have a huge student depth when we are done studying, because, well, technically, it's not free for us to study, we paid through our high taxes. But we do get money when we study from the state so that we can always stay afloat. So in that way, we are not forced out to anything is the Free to Choose afterwards. And that is, that's the benefit of paying like you know, 40% in Texas, like for me now, when I earn my own money, of course, it feels a little bit like 40% of all the money I earn is going into the state. Okay, fair enough. But then on the other hand, you have to see it, and what do you get back? Like we have free roads, we have one, hopefully the best health care systems in the world, we have free school system, we are more or less able to actually break the social circle, so that anyone can basically be the Prime Minister of Denmark, anyone can be the head of a multi million company, if so be and yeah, personally, like, relative to how many Americans think I would probably be a communist, but, but I am really happy about the system we are in. We are very, we are also a very capitalist country. Like I pride myself of saying we usually like No 6040 Because our taxes are like 40% ish. So like 40% socialist, and then 60% capitalists. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:46   So interesting, and that's, that's, you know, that's like such an eye opener, I suppose for people who don't like to pay taxes, because there are a benefit that goes with that. Going back to your photography, so what What was, you know what make you love photography and want to do more of it? You know, as instead of your other passion in life teaching or gymnastic, because you're, you're saying that you were doing a lot of gymnastic. And I know, gymnastic is a lot of fun as well. So what what, what, take that away from you and, you know, bring you to the photography world. Mads Peter Iversen  10:22   I think that, well, in the very beginning, I could combine my interest for gymnastics with photography, because I was taking a lot of photographs when we did gymnastics, and I did a lot of videos and stuff. But I'm also like, reached the point like I'm through back then when I stopped at gymnastics, I was 30 years old. And it is considered an extreme sport, like the age does catch up, you can continue, yes. But it was getting a little bit tough. I can be honest about that. And I think just all the way through my life, I've had this, I like to be creative. And I like to maybe not create worlds. But I have a very vivid imagination. Also, I'm playing, I've been playing a lot of computer games like World of Warcraft and stuff. So I'm very high on when it comes to fantasy and all the things I'm a real child of the postmodern era, the 90s and early 2000s. So it's just what has shaped me. So I've just like basically followed what I wanted to do. And then when I hit photography, I very fast. I learned what a raw file is. And then I figured out Oh, that is how the professional photographers get the look, they do. And I was still I was way before Lightroom, I was still working in Canons own role converter back then. So I was just like, Okay, this is how they do, that's the secret. And then the crew creates a feedback loop loop, I think in photography is just to learn how to paint, you don't have to, like, you know, to have a finished product really fast, is easier or faster in photography than it is. In paintings, of course, it takes time to learn how to take great photographs and so forth. But I would say that, of course, having some success relatively early in the process is also a thing that helps motivate yourself, I'm not blind for that, like, I do take photographs, mainly for myself, and I have made my career in a way where I'm not hugely dependent on others, and clients and so forth. But being in this creative workspace, obviously, there is still an audience. So if I was only, like, only making photos for myself and didn't care whatsoever about others, it could also be hard to sustain a business, because you can very fast become extremely niche. And there might not be someone who is actually interesting, interested in buying your photo. So you always have to, like, you know, probably find the golden, middle part of the road, where we take a lot of different things into consideration, and then look down, maybe a year or two ahead, how can I design my life so that I can solve the problems that might occur? So that's basically how I think, wow, that's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:55   that's amazing for you to come to that conclusion very early on, you know, I think a lot of a lot of photographer nowadays, might not realise that, you know, what you decided to do full time is to support your life. And I know, like, for me, it took me a while until I realised that until I decided, you know, a business model that suits that suits with me. Yeah, that's, that's, that's really great that you share that. And what, you know, sharing those those journey that you have to get to where you are and your whole thought process. What are some of the challenges and have you ever come to like a self doubt where you feel like hmm, I'm not sure if I can do this, you know, like I like I know there's a lot of photographers having that and I know like I have that all the time so I'm wondering if that is something that you ever come across or were you always have discuss conviction in your in yourself that you know what, this is what I'm gonna do? And I'm gonna make it happen Mads Peter Iversen  15:11   yes and no. Because on the one hand, if somebody had told me like 10 years ago where I would be today, I would just have laughed at them. But it, it's not that I set myself goals like some people like to have a five year plan, where do I want to be in five years, and then I work towards that. I would hate to do that. Because I want to be in a position where I do not know where I am in a year. I remember when I started thinking like that, it was a little bit frightening. I had a plan, I went through the usual educational system, and then I could come out and become a school teacher for the rest of my life. And I was like, I don't want to do that. So I like to be in a position where I do not know where I mean a year. And I just have to figure out how also to be able to sustain myself, while at the same time. Make something which is meaningful for me. And that is where yeah, as I said before, I'm trying to look a little bit ahead. How can I make sure that I reached that it's not a specific goal. It's just the goal maybe of continuously being happy and feeling safe. Because if I'm stressed about like my economy and stuff, I definitely less creative. Okay, if that's the case that I need to solve the economy stuff first. So in that way, okay, should I take sponsorships? Yes, no, maybe I'm not sure. At least I can make my own products like I am educated teacher, I know how to teach, I can use that. And then I can make my own products, and then I can sell it, okay, fine. Now I have an income. So in that way, I can go and do stuff that is a bit more free. And that's, again, it's the thing, it's balanced, like I can see when I create YouTube videos, which are doing less good, then I sell less, and it hurts my economy. So I need to also figure out how to make videos that a lot of people will see. So I get more eyeballs on my products. And that in itself is of course, problematic in regard to, to your creative freedom. But nothing in this world is really perfect. So to get get back to your question about is the things I have felt that I can't do. No, not particularly big. But that's because I generally try to not put myself in a situation where I'm jumping out into way too deep water before I can swim I am, I have always been the careful person. I'm not the big, innovative person who just hammers off and tries 100 different things, or throws 100 different things at the wall, and hopefully something sticks. I try to learn from others what their successes so I don't waste my time, and my life doing stuff, which is basically just a waste of time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:43   Wow, that's, that's amazing. When you break it down like that, that is really amazing how you, you know, your whole decision making and man, like, for those of you who listen here and did not get that and you want to pursue it full time, make sure you rewind that because you know that that is I wish I had talked with you like few years ago, that would have solved a lot of my problem. That's amazing. And that's crazy. I love how you use this analogy of you know, testing the water before you jump into deep because that's that, that that's what got me like, finally got me the courage to leave my nine to five job was being able to try that. So I think that's a really important part to pursue your passion or whether or not you want to pursue your passion, I suppose because you know, Mads Peter Iversen  19:41   so I want to elaborate a little bit on it because again, I come from a relatively privileged situation because I'm a dean. I have a society that holds me up. But it's also that I have the security that I can always take another job. And I didn't have to do that when I was building up my YouTube. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:01   You just froze there. And you're back. You were lagging. Yeah, yes for a little bit. All right, you might need to, you might need to repeat that whole bit. Mads Peter Iversen  20:10   Okay, I will do that. So just to elaborate a little bit on what I said, Because I come from a relatively privileged position because I am a dean. But again, I position myself, so I didn't have a huge amount of expenses. And I could live with my parents for a couple of years. And that is very uncommon for a person in Denmark, when when you're more than 30 years old to live with your parents. So that caught off a lot of the expenses that I would have had building up my YouTube channel. So I could spend all the time I didn't have to earn money putting into actually creating my YouTube channel. So in that way, it does come with some sacrifices. But I do know that not everybody can do that. I know that some one have to go out there and work a bartending job, like, I don't know, 18 hours a day, or whatever the shifts are, and then have to sleep and only maybe work for an hour or two on their passion stuff. But again, it's very much about like, Okay, what do I have to do to get like, on? So yeah, I just wanted to elaborate on that, because I know that he moved Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:28   back with your parents for a little bit for two years. You say, Well, you building this up? Yeah. Wow. Okay. So I mean, that's a really good point, you know, like, saying that, I mean, I, I, I grew up in Indonesia, you know, when my parents didn't have as as much privilege and I know the difference now being in Australia, being part of Australia, citizen and all that stuff. But I think the big thing here that is important is that you, you don't feel entitled about it, and you still make sacrifice, you know, I mean, especially, I mean, nowadays, like, you know, I'm not sure if you ever seen Gary Vaynerchuk. But Mads Peter Iversen  22:12   I have seen a lot of Gary Vaynerchuk. Yeah, and you know, like Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:14   that, that culture has kind of comeback of living with your parents to make things happen. But you know, Brandon, I'm sure it's really unconventional to do that. So yeah, massive sacrifice there. So wow, thanks for sharing that. That's amazing. You're welcome. Yeah, Mads Peter Iversen  22:31   it's a lot about like, just going into that entrepreneurship way of thinking. And that is very new to me. And thinking business, like I am learning so much about business. I've always been like businessmen, those guys who just do Wall Street and do shares and just like, who are they like, we don't like them. That's the socialist. But you, you just have to realise that, at least in most of the world, we live in capitalistic societies, and you have to be able to earn some money to sustain yourself. And if you choose to go full time, landscape photography, you are from the very beginning, positioning yourself in a very bad situation. Because if you want to make money, you should not be a landscape photographer. But I knew that I just find landscape photography, so meaningful, and I really enjoy it. And having that creative part of me, is very fulfilling. So that obviously makes up for me becoming ever an a millionaire, but it's, it's fine. Like, I'm doing fine now. But for the first two years, I didn't learn anything. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:41   Like, you know, I think that's something that's really important is that, you know, you said earlier about that something that really strike me is that you you cut down your expenses as well, you know, you're not living beyond people means you're your own means, right? Because I see that nowadays, a lot of people are complaining that they don't have the money to support their creative lifestyle when they keep eating out every single day and you know, buying this brand new stuff, and you know, so that's Wow, that's, that's really cool to hear that, you know, I think a lot of people can can learn from that and should learn from that being just being humble and actually, you know, keep things to the minimum while you're trying to make things happen. Mads Peter Iversen  24:27   Yeah, I'm really happy for one of my friends Nigel Denson, also another photographer, that I can like bounce ideas off with him and we talk a lot and also about like YouTube and how to make money and like he has to sustain an entire family. He has a wife, dog, three kids and a house. I don't have that. So he has to be even more focused on that. And of course, it's just part of it is part of the job trying to earn money Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:59   as well. Awesome. And, you know, I want to go back to, you know, you, you mentioned earlier about when you want to make it in, in this industry, you need to learn how to make money off of it, obviously, right? And you say that, you know, become learning the business side of it and entrepreneurship. And you said that when you first started, you didn't like that part or that aspect at all. So can you share with us a little bit? What, what got you there? Or what did you do to get you to that mindset and learn the business side of things so that you could actually thrive as a landscape photographer, and not fall back to you know, I suppose, being a teacher back then. Mads Peter Iversen  25:49   I think, the main push I needed and that again, I have to thank Nigel Vance on for I was doing a workshop with him in the Faroe Islands, it's like, two years ago, actually, exactly now. And I was just doing the presentation I have for for the group about like basic photography and stuff, and him and another guy from the group. They were like, mess, you need to create some maps that goes along with your videos, it's so obvious. And um, on top of that later, I also made an an ebook. It's basically just showing and sharing what I know and how I think, and realising that there was actually people who were interested in learning from me was you all always like, when it comes to self worth, like, is what I create really that interesting? Is it really that new, but that's the thing, like you don't have to invention, like the deep played one more time, you don't have to invention socks or anything like they are more interested in learning from you, they follow you more than they, they want to get into your mindset. Like they could go out and find all this information by themselves. Like, how much have we really pushed photography in the past 1020 years, like, it's still the same compositional tools that we use, it's same, still the same kind of storytelling and so forth. Like the tools have changed a little bit with Photoshop and Lightroom. And how we edit and process and the camera has changed and the technology do but the creative part is more or less the same still. So in that way, when when I make educational content, from what I hear from people who get my stuff is that they really enjoy the way I teach it. So I think it's getting that push from someone else that they tell you that what you are you actually have something of value here that you ought that you can earn money from, basically. And I was like, Okay, let's try and see what happens. And luckily, it worked out. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:29   Awesome, awesome. Yeah, that's kudos to you making all that happen. And, you know, I know you say lucky, it worked out, I'm sure there's a lot of hard work. Mads Peter Iversen  28:42   You know, it's you apply what you have learned, but it's, yeah, it's probably not luck. But it is work. It is what it is, like, I don't really believe in that talent stuff, either. So it's work hard work, just work, work, work. And yeah, at some point, you'll reach there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:02   Awesome. Yeah. So. So you mentioned a lot about Nigel and was Was he your mentor and your inspiration that got you into, you know, when you try to find creative sight in photography, or do you have other things or other methods that you can in tune to get that creativity? Because, you know, like, after a while, as a photographer, sometimes we can get so fixated on you know, just the composition rule or you know, the foreground, mid ground background, that rule of thirds, you know, so how do you get out of that, that that rule and actually create something that is unique again, that is, you know, that makes you excited again? Mads Peter Iversen  29:54   Well, to begin with what made me excited was just that I figured out how to actually take photos even though like that's the sentiment within landscape photography that you shouldn't go to all the famous locations and take the same photos like everybody else. For me, it has been a huge part of my learning process. Because I figured out firstly, specifically how the cameras work, I've found out all the different relations to each other. And over time, I've also build up a portfolio where I can go through it, okay, what kind of photos do I actually prefer to make, like when I went to Iceland to begin with, like I just long exposed, everything, like just tends to filter on and just like two minute long exposure, everything. As if people follow me on YouTube, they see that I hardly do that anymore. And I figured out it was a look like that very, very long exposure, it's just the look that it doesn't really do it for me. I don't mind like, you know, like, half a second shutter speed for water falls and small waterfalls and stuff. But when it comes to big waterfalls, I actually prefer them. Just like, you know, fast shutter speed. So you actually see the waterfall. It's just not like, you know, a sheet of white. So, for me going into all the iconic places, and there are so many more iconic places I want to photograph but that's mainly because I am attracted to also the cultural stuff like why do we go to Paris, you go to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre. Like you don't go to Paris, for I don't know, exploring it in down in the most deep places, like maybe some photographers do. But most tourists go to Paris to photograph the Eiffel Tower. And I think that when you start out in landscape photography, it's or less the same thing. And then over time, you try to be a little bit more regional at those different iconic locations. And from their own, you get your mind of your own and you start to recognise the patterns and you start to recognise what it is you like to do. So you can maybe go out in another mountainous area. And you can see, okay, this mountain kind of reminds me a little bit about this other composition I have, maybe I can do it here. So you will use the same compositional tools to make a photo which is more or less like a like one of the classic compositions, it's in a new location, you can always ask yourself whether or not it's original or not. But again, I don't believe that you have to go 100% original because the viewer of your photos still need to be able to relate to that photo, somehow, they'll just jump out into like visual anarchy. And I don't mind being original and innovative. But what I've learned when it comes to being innovative is that if we throw everything we know when to like a box of information, you have to be there on the edge where you can just push the edge, you still need to be where most people can recognise what it is you're doing. Whether you're doing it in a new location, or you're adding a little bit of new elements to it, and so forth. It's extremely hard to be original in landscape photography these days, whether or not you swap out skies, or you don't swap out skies, whether or not you go gung ho with editing, or you're more like an old, traditional one exposure. And this is what I saw. being original and landscape photography is just extremely hard. And all that stuff with it should take a lot of effort. Like some most of my original photos is taken very close by and first and foremost, because it's locations that nobody else goes to. But also because that I can really just play around with a lot of more things that I can't do when I'm out on a photography tour. Like I plan my tour, I'm going to locations that I find interesting. And then in between those locations, I might stumble upon something which is more or less original, but then again, like how original is it when you're just using the same compositional tools that you always do? So it's a long discussion when it comes to originality whether or not it's it's even a thing anymore, but yeah, I can talk about this for a long time, but I think the conclusion is just like in the end, whatever. Nobody cares. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:46   Hey, interesting, you know how you put it there and it's funny when you say that like one of you some of your most original photo are shot close to your your home and And that's because not as many people visit those places because they don't say as you know, the isolinux, and stuff like that. So, when when it comes to photography, especially nowadays, it's like, you know, a lot of people argue that it's like very oversaturated. And a lot of people try one thing to be able to separate themselves from other photographers and stand out. What are what would be the advice that you, you will you can tell those, the people to be able to separate themselves from other photographers so that they can stand out? Mads Peter Iversen  35:41   The easy answer is just don't do what everybody else is doing. But that's like, stupid. Again, it's a complete cliche, but just do whatever you want to do. Like, don't listen to the noise, don't listen to other people telling you what you should do. Depending on where you are, in your career, if you're living from landscape photography, you need to take that into consideration. Not every photograph you take has to be like, the most intrusive, spective deepest photo and most original stuff you had, that humankind has ever seen. It doesn't need to be like that. Sometimes you just have to go and take a photo and full daylight of like a town and that everybody else is taking sell it as a stock for so like if that's what it takes to create income. I'm sorry, I keep blabbering out. What was the initial question? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:44   That's, that's interesting that you mentioned that. Oh, let me just go back to that. Because I think it's really important how you separate some of the work that create money and some of the work that doesn't create one, it's a, that's another another good point in there. But I suppose what what I was asking was, how, how do you differentiate your photography compared to other people, especially if you kind of just started out? Right? Mads Peter Iversen  37:14   Yeah. Yes. Okay. So we usually see that every three years or so the trends time kind of shift, like back in 2017. Everybody had like a very specific style on Instagram, like yellow raincoats, and desaturated colours and blown out skies, right? You don't really see that anymore. Like it was a trend. And I think many of those photographers who did that back then over time, if they're still doing landscape photography has kind of probably branched out and doing something now, which is more than in the sense that they probably, if they're still here, have found something which they relate more to. And I think it's like, when I started out, I just went straight into that ugly HDR photography, like looking back at it looks like crap. Like, it's so terrible. But you know, you figure things out by mistake over time. And if you stick to the subject you're in, in my case, landscape photography, you you over time, just figure out what you want to do. And if you can do that, then I think that slowly you do, maybe not develop a specific style, but you do something which is more aligned with you and to say another cliche, you are the best at being you. So like I have had when I've done a lot of my workshops and stuff I've been exposed to quite a lot of like, older landscape photographers maybe started out doing analogue photography, and their way of approaching it is different from mine. And there's also the saying that, once you're done with the epic vistas and epic landscape photos, you go more into abstract photography, and maybe some old black and white, I have tried both, and I see the abstract patterns. It's just so utterly boring, at least for now. Like, it's just not me. And when you have when, when there's like this meme in the entire landscape photography community, that when patterns and abstract photos kind of start to trend because a lot of the influential photographers start talking about that. You have to find stuff for yourself and you have to do it for yourself and what they are doing is abstract photography, then the herd mentality is that everybody goes into abstract photography. And suddenly that's the thing. That's the trend. And I think it's trending quite a lot right now abstract photography and that stuff. But I know how to do abstract photography, I see those patterns myself when I'm out. I sometimes photograph them, I have an entire section of abstract photographs on my website. But the long evety For me is not in abstract photography. Maybe it isn't in yours, I don't know. But for now I am. I'm way more like, if I'm moving away from the epic business, I'm much more into like Forest photography, by now much more atmospheric photography. It's not I wouldn't call it an intimate scene. But it is much more focused on a calm scene. Rather than the epic wide angle scene with a strong foreground, I still like those photos. And you can just see, obviously, people can't see it. But on my wall here hanging behind me like it is epic photographs, but they don't have like that very strong foreground that is almost falling out of the photo. So what I want to hang on my walls is I'm also trying like, again, as I only been here for five years, I'm still figuring out stuff myself, like what it is I like. So I like the epic VISTAs but I don't want them to yell in my face. And that goes against what works on the social medias. Because Funny enough, those are the photos that makes the most Wow, when you see them. And if anybody's following me on Instagram, like, it's obvious how I'm working Instagram, like it's each time, like I usually try to put out new photos on Instagram each week. And then I figure out if they work or not. But if you want to do Instagram and use Instagram to reach a broad audience, you can't expect putting up photos that doesn't work on Instagram and then get a huge following. It's just not how it works like I wish it was I have a lot of things I can complain about Instagram. But in the end, when it comes to these social medias on a mass scale it basically like of course, Facebook can change the algorithm a little bit like just over the past two months, like my reach has been cut in half. It's frustrating that I'm getting less reach now than I did when I had 80,000 followers. Now I have 10 times as much as made no sense. But Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:45   you, Mads Peter Iversen  42:47   you kind of just have to do what you have to do when you are working on these platforms. And yes, that that can of course limit your creativity. But again, that's a problem you have to solve over time, and I'm doing my best to solve it. But again, he's trying to find that middle road. And I'm also Yeah, I'm taking photos that I don't want to hang on my wall, but I know that they will work on Instagram. So I'm not photographing specifically for Instagram. But when I recognise that here is a scene, here's a photo that would work on Instagram. Okay, then I use it for Instagram. It's like, if you had a store, it's like what Gary Vee says when he made his his wine store, build up his dad's wine store, like you don't put your garbage wine in the window, you put the best wine in the window, right to put the wine out which get the attention to get people into your store, you have to take that into consideration when you're living off of landscape photography. In many ways, it's a big privilege not having to live off landscape photography, because then you can go and do exactly what you want to do. I need to take that extra step where I do what I want to do, but also try to earn money from it. And yeah, it's not always easy. You know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:12   That's amazing. That's amazing. I love that I love how you're keeping it real. You know, I mean, like, especially with a lot less pressure with the social media, I know that more and more people are saying you know, like, just shoot what you like and you know, Do do do do what makes you happy and as important as that may be but I think it's important to recognise that Instagram is more of a marketing tool. So Mads Peter Iversen  44:41   certainly been designed to that over the past five six years. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:45   Yeah. And I love how you how you keeping it real buy just you know laying it out, you know you have to attract those people at the end of the day. It's that's how marketing works. And yeah, that's that's a really good point. And that's, that's great. And by By the way, I love your forest photography as well, I feel like you were able to find the granting in the boring, the most boring scene like, I remember what you want some of your reels and I was looking at as like, you know is there is a path I remember there was like a gay and then you're like showing it as the photo that came out of it. I was like, Wow, that's incredible. So what were you looking out when you were approaching a landscape or a scenery? That doesn't look as interesting to make it? You know, to make it interesting? You cut out ago, you Mads Peter Iversen  45:49   were lacking a little bit there. So I may have to repeat the question that Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:53   I get. So I was just saying that. I love how you find the grandest thing on the most boring stuff. And you know, I remember when you post that reel, you were, I think walking on this path with this, like brown gate on the side, and you're showing the scenery, and, you know, you have some of the coolest like photo of just like forests, and there was just so many interesting in that. But when you I think when a lot of people can approach that scenery and look at it, it might not look as interesting. And when they see your photo, just go like, where did that come from? So what I'm interested about is how do you approach a scenery that looks boring, you know, that looks that doesn't look that doesn't have the epic Vista, as you say, to create that photo that is still appealing and beautiful. Mads Peter Iversen  46:51   Oh, I think it comes with experience. I rely pretty heavily on editing, like 50% of my photos is usually down to editing even though that the scene might look good on video, when you see the raw file is often flat and boring. It's completely unbalanced in regard to where highlights and shadows should be. So in that way, I very much like it at the very least in my forest photography, dodge and burn quite a lot with different techniques. But I think just it's a question about experience that over time you start to recognise those patterns, which you find the static is very hard to put into words, because it's just such an internalised way of seeing I approach a scene like if I know, okay, here's a cool tree, here's a cool part of the forest that I've explored, then I have a pretty good idea how the compositions are, go out and try them out. Figure does it work with fog? Does it work with the sun coming in somehow and all those things. So in that way becomes you practice and then you wait for the good conditions, and then you actually basically just have to go out and click the shutter right. It's like you have done all the preparation. Other times, it's just like you're walking around, and then you'll see something a that's pretty click, and then it turns out to be really good for so. And I think the more experience you get, the more you recognise, oh, this is pretty. Like, the more you you yourself are like that works. So yeah, it's it's very much about just going out and shoot, shoot, shoot, get a lot of inspiration from others. I don't mind people emulating my photos like that they will find their own way over time. It's the people must have a really sad life, if they are just going out and completely copying all my photos. That's that doesn't last long, I assure you. So at some point, you do reach a place where you're like, you just stop recognising and taking your own photos. You do get much more like you know, I would say mental health but much more like positive feedback from yourself. If you figure out something by yourself and you feel that what you're doing is more and more. You Yeah, should I use the word original, but at least like it's not just like going out and copying what someone else is doing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:39   That's really interesting. So I was wondering, you know, you've been in this journey for a while and you've, you obviously have worked very hard to get to where you are right now. Mads Peter Iversen  49:50   I've worked a lot to get where I am maybe not hard. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:56   And like during that journey, do you ever We're like, come to a place where you were like, where you were burning out when you feel like you don't want to do this anymore? Like, is that ever come across within your journey? And if it does, what? What can you do to keep this journey sustainable in the longer term? Because I think the reason why I asked this is because a lot of creatives nowadays are very ambitious. And they, you know, they see people who are succeed, and they were like, yes, I want to get there, like in two years time, and unfortunately, a lot of the time, because they were hammering so hard on it, they get really, they don't understand how to make it sustainable, both on the mental side as well as you know, in the, in the money side, because it's, it's a marathon, let's face it, it's a marathon. Right? So what are some of the, you know, have you ever come across those situation? And if it has, what are some of the advice you can offer to some of the newer creatives who's kind of like, you know, in the beginning part of their journey? Yeah, Mads Peter Iversen  51:15   I can only speak for myself. But yes, I of course, have reached periods where it has been like, I remember especially like, by the end of 2019, I have been doing a whole lot of workshops in Iceland. And it was just like the same locations again, and again, and again. And you're saying the same things again, and again, and again. And even, I really liked doing the workshops, and spending time with those people who attend the workshops. That's always interesting, super nice people, always. But the work in itself does become rather repetitive, like I still enjoy like going to the ice beach and Iceland, I could spend hours there just and I'm even thinking of just like going with my girlfriend twice in the summer, because we haven't been to Iceland together yet. That's a lot of things, a lot of places I want to visit. But after 2019, I was really like, burned out with with the epic business. And I got a much more, I got much more interesting in exploring Denmark and photographing in Denmark, which luckily, came together with the pandemic where I couldn't travel. So luckily, I had my interest for photographing in Denmark before being forced to having to photograph in Denmark. So in that way, that was like a really nice energy boost and also go much more into forest photography has been a very big energy boost. Because my parents house is in a forest I've grown up in a forest I relate to forests. And that is why many of my favourite photos are from like, they're very, very local. Because I relate much more to those photos than I do to my Iceland photos. I'm happy about like my big epic business, from Iceland on my travels and all that stuff. But it is nice to also get that extra part where it's more local. And it's refreshing, it's different way of thinking, rather than only doing the epic stuff. So mixing it up, figure out what you like to do, maybe from time to time force yourself out. It can be hard to get out and up for in the morning, hum the first to say that. And you might not get anything which is particularly interesting, but chances are you are if you just come prepare it like if you go out a summer morning, and it has been a cold night and you're aiming to get to a foggy location like go go to a place with a varied landscape. Again, I know if you're living in the middle of desert is probably a little bit hard, but then you have to just be innovative about how you're thinking about approaching these things. So for me, it's seek out those special conditions maybe rather than seeking out specific locations. Yeah, it's hard for me to really answer it because I'm still so young in it. I'm still so passionate about it. That's those very small down periods where I'm like, this is boring, like two weeks of just overcast weather and no snow or whatever like the start of December like last year 2020 I was a bit like dark period and you just do something else like it's and then usually comes back Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:01   I interesting, I like how you say, you know, don't necessarily seek out the location, but seek out the condition. I think that is, I never really think about it that way. But it's very true because it doesn't matter, you might go to the same popular spot, but a really unique condition make that popular spot unique altogether. That's really interesting way of looking at it. Wow, man, it's been like, amazing conversation. I love how just seeing how you approach this, you know, and the way you approach your photography, as well as, like being a full time landscape photographer. We're kind of coming to the one hour mark here. And I always ask every guest, that come into the podcast. If you have one advice that you can give other photographers out there that you feel, this is the most important thing that a photographer should know, what would that advice be? Mads Peter Iversen  56:10   Do what you want to do? Don't listen to the noise. It's okay, it's okay to do the trending stuff, it's okay to do all the obvious stuff. At some point, you will reach a point where you start becoming more original and just just just follow your own wishes, like of course, within the law, like and ethics, do whatever you want to do. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:36   That's great. That is great. You know, like, in, in just late last year, I had I had this burnout. And the main reason of that burnout was, you know, I wasn't doing what I want to do, I was pressured to, to do the things that I need to do. And you know, that advice is so important. It doesn't matter if you, like you say doesn't matter if it's going to be a popular sport or not. But being able to do what you want to do is really important for your mental health. Wow, that's amazing. And I absolutely enjoyed this conversation conversation. And you know, you have beautiful photos, beautiful. imagery from especially the north part of the world. Where can the listener find new and see more of your work, as well as learn from you if they choose to? Yeah, what's the best way to find you? Mads Peter Iversen  57:35   YouTube, just Google my name. I'm probably everywhere. So YouTube and Instagram. And of course, my homepage, which is a little bit of an odd homepage name, but it's MPI like mess Peter iris and MPI and then photo pH o to.dk. For Denmark. And so MPI photo.tk and YouTube, Instagram. And that's it. I have my ebooks on composition, how I think composition, I talk about it as compositional tools. I don't like the word rules. It's more like, you see a scene, you approach a scene? And then you can maybe like think about okay, is there some kind of leading line I can use? How is the separation between the trees? And what can I do to show scale? If I'm in a mountainous area, if that's the point of actually showing scale? Should I go with a long lens? Should I go with a wide lens and all those things? Should I do horizontal? Should I do verticals? So yeah, and then I have, of course my huge Photoshop for landscape photographers from beginners to advanced course, about post processing. I'm sharing everything I know about how I post process my photos. If you're a complete beginner and you want to get started, it should work really well for you. I haven't heard anybody who said that it was much too advanced. And yeah, so it's like 19 hours of editing tutorials. So there's a lot to dig into very systematically build up with a lot of different ways to like approach a specific way a specific look and the look I have. So yeah, that was it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:32   Fantastic. Yeah, I'll make sure that all that links is under on the description below but we can't thank you very much for tuning in. And I hope you get a lot of those jam a lot of those wisdom and hopefully you are taking notes and as well as thinking about, you know how to implement all a lot of these things in your way of photography. Mads, it's been incredible having you here, I love that Um, just the way you actually think and, you know, chunk down a lot of the decision process. And that's definitely helpful for a lot of people, you know, as well as myself to kind of understand that, that way of attacking of what should I do next? And you know, what are ways? What are the different ways we should do and stuff like that. So, thank you very much. And, yeah, I really appreciate you sparing your time and to be in this podcast, sharing your wisdom with the listeners. Mads Peter Iversen  1:00:34   Thank you so much for having me. It's always a great pressure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:39   Well, there you have it. We care hunters and you haven't already subscribed, so don't forget to hit the subscribe button. But apart from that, I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters, First of all happy easter, I hope you have a festive holiday. Today we have an enthusiast photographer who takes world-class quality photos. As a result, Liz has won multiple awards including 1st Place in Mono Awards 2020. Liz shared the story behind the photos that she took during her 14 days of isolation that eventually got picked up by ABC Australia which you can find on the link below. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-16/woman-takes-photo-each-day-coronavirus-quarantine-in-perth/12541654 If you want to learn more about Liz's work, you can find it here: www.lizbarkerphotography.com https://www.instagram.com/lizbnw229/ https://www.instagram.com/lizb229/    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers. 

Hey Wicked Hunters,  This week we have an awesome conversation with Bret Blakely where he shares his approach to adding emotion to photography. Bret is a big believer in creating photography that means something to you before you even consider what others might have to think about it. Bret has master photography in such a short period of time and you can learn more about Bret's work here: You can learn more about him by connecting in https://www.facebook.com/bretblakelyphotography/  https://www.instagram.com/bretblakely/  https://bretblakely.darkroom.tech/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.    ------------------ Transcription:   Bret Blakely  0:00   What'd you think expectations are for your photography from other people not letting that be the narrative Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:14   Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion and share how photography gives us hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have a guest who is so passionate about photography and about the wildlife. I am so excited to have him here. Hey, Brett, how you doing? Good. Good. How are you? I'm doing well. So welcome to the podcast. And I am so glad to have you here. I think you are the first wildlife photographer. Well, actually I have another like underwater but you're like over over the over the land wildlife photographer above the water. Yeah. About the water. But you're not you don't only shoot wildlife, isn't it? You like to do landscape as well? Is that? What's so if you were is there like a type of like a genre that you like to shoot? Or do you just pretty much shoot anything? Bret Blakely  1:15   Yeah, so I would actually call myself a landscape photographer that is just getting into wildlife because I fell in love with the photography about three years ago after a trip to Africa. And I wanted to learn everything like you know, I was I was like, Man, if I had good camera gear and like knew what I was doing and wasn't shooting on auto. I was kind of bummed. I was like, I wish I could go back and do that again. So I made sure that yeah, that was really the catalyst and my first trip was to Yosemite. With a good buddy of mine, Adam, our Danny, he's phenomenal. Landscape composition, everything is just so good. I learned a boatload but for the first like two and a half years, two years, it was all landscape. And then it was actually the quarantine it was the global pandemic that kind of made me switch. Don't get me wrong, I've always loved animals you know, always just got a huge heart for them. You know, I just love them love everything about and I think they're so emotionally intelligent, so intelligent, you know, far beyond what we understand anyway, like, I feel like when you see an animal, you know, you can really, you can see the story behind that. And with not being able to travel, a lot of my trips being cancelled. For landscape it kind of, I don't know, it just the guys are shooting with we're like, Hey, let's go try and get a fox, you know, let's go try and do this. And so we started buying, you know, camo gear and blinds set up behind and you know, just getting all this stuff and like researching and it really created a passion for wildlife as well and I am still just as obsessed with landscape as ever, but now I am you know, it's it's equally matched by the wildlife portion of it, I just think there's something about being able to look and capture an animal you know, it's, I'm not a religious person, but it does feel almost spiritual when you you know, you're able to connect, make eye contact with that animal or something. It's just been a really fun experience. I think helping me develop you know, doing a different genre can absolutely help develop the other genre that you've been doing I am quicker to be able to figure out settings and you know, shoot in different light for my landscape now it's a result of wildlife and vice versa, you know, you take a lot of those things and they they transfer over I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:41   yeah, cool. That's that's really cool story. I mean, I myself like to shoot wildlife but I just don't have the passion to like not not passion to patient safety patient to like go after them. So I like to I like to call myself you know, if I see wildlife photographer, it's there I'll be ready. If not, Bret Blakely  4:07   that is a dream. It is great when it's just there for you. There is something to be said for the repeated failure and struggle to capture something how much more means you know when when it does. I just got back from the Grand Tetons yesterday from Wyoming and I had been wanting a shot of a bison the whole time and didn't see one at all and the morning of my last second last day pretty much my last day because I left yesterday morning so the morning of my last day we went out for like three and a half hours. Did not see anything at all except for bald eagle which is great got some cool shots. But I was like I can't believe because from you know being from Buffalo, New York, our sports seems like the bills and the Sabres a bison is the logo like that is our logo. I'm like I'm from Buffalo. I need to get a shot of a bye And, and sure enough, we went back out in the afternoon we were driving around for a couple hours, we saw some 200 plus yards 300 yard probably longer actually three 400 yards in the distance, had to find a spot to park through the snow shoes on, hiked a quarter half mile through, through the forest got to this open, clear. And it was I mean, no joke, it was about five feet deep of snow. I mean, even with snow shoes, every every step, you're going on two and a half feet had to jump across two rivers to get close enough to shoot them. And then I got my bison shots. And then as I'm like finishing getting my bison shots, they all get up because they're all just grazing in the snow pack wilderness. And they all get up and start stampeding across like it was unbelievable. You know, it's one of those experiences you don't forget, I'm like, you know, I'm glad that I didn't get that bison shot just off the side of the road. You know, there's an actual story behind it is cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:55   Yeah, no, I can see that. It's it's usually the experience that really make the photo isn't it? It's how the first thing? Yeah, so how do you so how do you fall in love with landscape photography? And what really got you started in there? You know, why? Why all of a sudden, you know what, I want to be able to take beautiful landscape photos. Bret Blakely  6:19   Yeah, so I've always been a picture guy. So when I say that I did take a little class and in high school, you know, when you actually make the prints yourself and everything. But when I say I was a picture guy, I was the guy who used to carry around. I'm not sure how old we are. But when I was a kid, so I'll be 40 this summer. I mean, we had the disposable cameras, you know. So on spring break, whether, you know, in high school hanging out with the friends, I always had a disposable camera because I just wanted to make sure that I remember going to a restaurant. I mean, it didn't had didn't have to be anything special. But those memories of my friends. So they always used to tease me they're like, you always have a disposable camera view. And then of course, when it was yearbook time, and they all needed photos for the yearbook. Who did they come ask me? So I think I always you know, really just like the, I guess the idea of of having memories to look back on. But yeah, it was and I've always loved to travel. I mean, always really have but even as a kid, I would sit in front of a sunset and take a picture with my disposable camera for every minute, the whole 30 minutes. You know, they're like, why are you taking a picture of it every minute. I'm like, because it changes the light changes. I think it was like always inside me, but just never, never really did it. And then when I went to Rwanda with my now fiance, she, I mean, it was the most it was the furthest away I'd ever been outside of Japan when I was in like fifth grade. But you know, is the furthest I've ever been and just such a drastically different culture. Different landscape. I mean, I was just in awe the whole time. And, and I'd already started to be because of my friend Adam. I had been looking at his photography and I'm like, man, just I'm a creative person but had never put that part of creativity to the real test you know, and explore that. And so I was already kind of starting to get like an inch of like, man, maybe there's something I want to try I love the stuff that he's doing this is really cool. And then yeah, sure enough after I got back from the trip, I was like Screw this man, I gotta get a camera and I just went down the YouTube rabbit hole and you know, spent three hours a day learning everything in anything about what camera will gear, ISO aperture colour theory exposure triangle, like everything you could do for three months before he invited me then on that trip to Yosemite and so I'm like, it was basically my time to prepare before my first test, you know, and I took a little 16 millimetre lens, I had my kit lens that came with a Sony a six 300 and got to work and just fell in love with it there. That's a hell of a place to start off landscape journey though, too. I mean, you're talking about an iconic park, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:11   Awesome. Yeah, I mean, man, like, last time I went to Yosemite was probably when I was like 13 or something like that. And you know, when you're a kid, you don't really have that appreciation of you know, the place and like now looking back to this photos and just like, Ah, I don't remember all these like, all these lodges is like, I gotta go back there. It's it's crazy. And I was supposed to go back to the US in last well about this time last year, but you know, when everything hits, I was like, man, you know, it's gonna get a lot more complicated away from home so I decided to stay but um, yeah, like you sent me to being like, on my high on my bucket list to visit as well as a lot of the other national parks in the US, but it's so interesting for you to hear that. So do you, how many disposable cameras do you go to take photo of this sunset? Because like, Bret Blakely  10:17   okay, so no joke about so every spring break when I was a kid, you know, like, fifth grade through like high school, I would say, on average when I got back in one week's time, I had 10 to 12 disposable cameras that I had to take and get developed. I mean, it was just like a guarantee, you know, and don't get me wrong there were there were no bangers out of those. It was just like, a kid who was just super excited and in love with the sunset and like the beach and everything. And yeah, so it was it was bad. I spent, I can't imagine how much money I spent getting disposable cameras developed when I was a kid I probably read if I had never done that Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:57   is hilarious. Sorry. I was just like off topic there. But it's, I was so interested to hear that because you're not. I know the feeling like I have that as well. It's like, it's like, oh, okay, sounds like coming down a little bit. It's like, oh, it's like just stats like different, you always want to capture it. On this. It's Bret Blakely  11:15   like, you don't want to miss it sometimes, like you have to almost put the camera down for a second be like, let me just watch this for you know, yeah, it's tough. Being in love with photography is, you know, you get to you put yourself in a position to see these beautiful moments. And, you know, you you kind of look at things differently, where you really do appreciate a sunrise or a sunset or anything, you know, flowers away, they're whispering across the field, whatever. But then the curse of it is that sometimes you're always caught up having your camera because you're like, I want to make sure that I remember that specific second of that sunset. And that you know, I mean, so it's, it's a gift and a curse. I would say way more of a gift though. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:02   Awesome. Yeah, that's that's very, that's very true. Like, you're right, because like, you know, when you I actually have to force myself to leave the camera behind. Yeah, because you know, I get this FOMO Fear Of Missing Out is like, oh, man, what if just what if, you know, there's like, one shot that I could get, you know, as I progress you I have to leave it behind. Because like, otherwise, you're right. Like, I can't enjoy the moment. Like, I'd be like, Oh, that's beautiful. And you know, as a photographer, we see this beauty on everything, right? So we constantly take photos, so heads on Bret Blakely  12:41   a swivel constantly, like you're never just looking forward. You're always you know, doing this and everything because you're like, I don't want to miss anything figured out, can I pull over here? It's like, No, dude, you're in the middle of the highway, you're gonna cause an accident, and you can't pull over here to get the fucking sunlight. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:59   It's a Lariat. So how do you find that balance for yourself? What what, like, you know, what had been working for you where, you know, there'll be moments where it's so beautiful that you just enjoy it. And then there'll be moments that it's so beautiful that you just working on capturing it? How do you find that balance? Bret Blakely  13:18   I don't know that I've done it effectively yet. You know, I think I think it's struggle every time. But a lot of the balance to comes from, in my opinion, like, are the moments that aren't necessarily we're pulling out the camera and setting up a tripod or whatever, but it's like the, you know, the hike to get to the spot. You know, those are just a special two. And those are things that you can fully take in whether you're just whether you're with a couple buddies, and everyone's just kind of quiet in their own head as they're hiking, or you're maybe just telling jokes throughout the whole thing, or it's sketchy and you're laughing about how scared shitless you want to you know, those are just as important, if not more important, you know, like, they always talk about how it's the journey, not the destination. And I do think a lot of those that I think a lot of that resonates. And I think then actually, you know, I guess the way I'd say I don't balance but I don't have too much guilt over it. Because that final picture is not just a picture of that. Second, it's the final scene in what was a movie that day for you. You know, it's like that that one picture allows you to see from minute one to minute 120 of that movie that took you to that image. So for you personally, it encapsulates all those memories. It's like, you know, if you smell something and it can take you back to a memory that lasts an entire year of your childhood, maybe you know and this way I think it's the same thing you know, for us. The reason I think photography is so addictive and important to the photog for themselves, and why it's so important that they capture things for themselves is because for them, it's not just another good looking picture that they're swiping through and double tapping, you know, like, that's, that's, that's other photographers for them. But that picture to them is like a whole movie. It's a whole scene, it's maybe five hours of that day, maybe 10 hours of that day, it's a trip, you know, it's friends that you made on that trip, like, I can't wait to go through all these Grand Teton shots, because the two guys that took me out Hayden and Arthur, like, they literally were the best hosts, you know, I met them through Instagram, never met in person, and these guys got up every single morning, picked me up at 5am and took me to the best spots for sunrise, we, you know, hang out all day, they take me out to shoot at night, we'd all go to dinner every night. Like they both ski and snowboard, they didn't ski or snowboard the that whole week, they took off work, like just to show me around and, and it was like that trip all the all the pictures that I get to go through now. And again, I absolutely have memories that are directly attached to them, you know, and that's how it is every time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:15   That's awesome, man. That's awesome, man. You know, that's, it's a big lesson learned there. And you just want to bring this up a little bit, because you might not notice it. But it's true. Like photography, it's not always about that destination. And I used to get caught up in that a lot. When I first started, you know, I used to go to places to get the iconic shot and I would go I would literally do the thing where people go to the place, take the iconic shot take like, you know, like 2030 of the same view, right? The same way tourists view you get in the postcard view. And then you go to the next spot. And for that reason, like I miss I miss so many, like, cool perspective and cool things that happen in you know, apart from this frame that I'm always looking at an observer that so I think that's such an important thing to raise. And you know that's why I call it like my photography the wicked hunt because like for me it's about the hunt for those you know, for this photo it's not it's not always about the N photo that that really mean something that handful is just the trophy, isn't it? Bret Blakely  17:27   Yeah, I love that. That you just kind of gave me an insight into your Instagram name. That's cool that like That's badass or wicked hunt. It was actually funny though, too, because, you know, you talked about like the iconic shots and when you go to a place like Yosemite or Grand Tetons, it's impossible not to, to you know, be confronted with those opportunities to get the iconic shot because they're iconic for a reason. Because they're amazing compositional opportunity, you know, to unities the lighting is great. The view of the mountains so like my, my personal challenge to myself going out there before this was to really try and like expand compositionally, and try and try and just get very creative with the way I was shooting things and I'm I'm super excited because not only were there a lot of shots at like, I don't do a lot of minimalism. And I took a bunch of ones that I'm really excited about. I mean the atmosphere lent itself for it, you know, just like simple you know, one tree amongst this like ferocious mood in the background. The Tetons have covered things like that. But even like the the the first shot that I posted from the two times trip, that's an iconic view, it's up at Target the pass and you're the roads going down, and you're looking at it. And what was funny is that me and the other guys were all shooting there. And I kept waiting for a car something just to make it a little bit different. And then as you'll see at the bottom left of it, there's a huge snow cloud and all you can see are the headlights through it. That was a snow plough coming in the other direction, which is why it push all this snow in front of it, which is why you couldn't see the car. And when that car started coming up everyone was when I got off the road and went back to the car and I stayed out and shot it because I'm like this can make an iconic shot. Just a little bit different. And my buddy was like, Dude, that's awesome. He's like, Man, I saw that I was gone. And I look back and you're out there shooting and he's like, because I genuinely don't want any signs of like human life in my photos he goes, but that kind of made that shot. I'm like, sweet so that you know, I think it's good to always like when you're travelling somewhere or even if you're just going out in your neighbourhood, whatever. Like think of a way to challenge yourself because for me, it made me really reevaluate the way I go about shooting things. I mean, I'm happy that I really tried to push myself and there may be shots at you know, I should have just gone with a more Standard composition or something, because maybe I didn't pull it off as much as I think I did or something. But I think that's part of a great way to grow. And now I'm, like, really excited for a lot of these shots. And, you know, I think a lot of people shoot the same subject, but I'm hoping I did it in a really different way. And that'll just make me better for the next time I go out and shoot, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:24   Yeah, that's really well put, and you know, like in this photography, it's funny because people say, this, this genre is so so saturated. And I think the reason why it's saturated is for that reason that you just mentioned, right? People, like, go to this iconic place, and just try to take that one photo. But as you said, like, you don't have to stop there. Like, just because, like, don't get me wrong. I take iconic photos all the time. But it doesn't mean you have to stop there. Right? What the one word that I was, that really struck me from one of the other podcasts or the pot? Yeah, the guests that I have in this podcast was the word open mind, like, you know, approach a scenery with an open mind that really sum up everything. It's like, yeah, of course, like, you know, if you get there, of course, you want to get the iconic shot, but approach it with an open mind, maybe there is some other thing and like you say, like, with your experience in grand, Grand Teton, you know, like, you're like, you're shooting this iconic view, but then it's like, Oh, something else happened. And if you have that open mind, you will notice that bit. But yeah, I remember back when I first started, I would be frustrated with those car, right? I would be like, Oh, come on, get away, I wonder is like, I caught each other. So that's, I think that's the important bit is like, you know, like, yeah, of course, like, you know, the iconic is great. But if you have it with an open mind, you might, you know, the things that you think is a distraction might actually be the hero of your shot, or the focal point, or the things that are in and out. So, Bret Blakely  22:02   yeah, I had any comments or like those headlights, because if it wasn't a snow plough, either, like it still would have been cool. But the fact that it created a camouflage and it looked almost like to Animalize you know, just peeking through the snow, it just added a tonne and like so that's again, having an open mind. Like, that's just a little bit of luck. I have that same shot from that morning without a car in it. But I went with that one because I'm like, You know what, it's, it's kind of different. I always I also think that you know, expectations, always not always, they can lead to disappointment. And in any facet of life, you know, relationships in, I mean in anything, and I think having an open part of having having an open mind is trying to, you know, alleviate some of the expectation, stress and anxiety that we put on ourselves like I'm expecting there to be perfect light I'm expecting there to be no cars I'm expecting there to be no other people that I have to worry about getting my shot and like, like you said, you know, having an open mind and maybe not having expectations but just going to enjoy and being like you know, I'm going to go there and just try and do something totally different not have not worry about if I get the iconic shot or not. If it's there, go ahead and take it so you have it out of the way and then you can like take a couple breaths and be like alright, now let me try shooting it this way. You know, if you shot a vertical shoot, shoot or if you have not in the foreground, put something in the foreground or get behind something in the foreground. You know change the angle like anything have an open mind because you might think that the one that everybody's gotten before that you want to get because you know it's going to be popular and it will work because it's like a proven composition. They might be like Dude, I've never seen a take on on that shot before I've seen a shot a million times I've never seen it like that and then you're like alright, sweet outlines, outlines the best Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:58   well, those kinds of shots, you know are the one that makes you happy, isn't it? That's the one that really gives you a full fulfilment from photography and it's it's no one it's something that not a lot of people talk about but it's having a good photo is like a good start. But once you can progress to it, you want to be able to capture what's yours. So that's it that's really well iterated and explained. So thanks for sharing that that's really really cool insights from from your way of thinking so I love that I absolutely love it. So when do you is Was there ever a turning point in your photography journey that kind of shift I mean you already kind of mentioned a little bit about you know this pandemic and a half you that bigger shift towards more of the wildlife but during early on in your photography journey on you know, finding your photog Have you start on finding what you really like on, you know, shooting landscape from that first shot that you take in, in Yosemite to now, what are some of the biggest shifts? And in your photography? Bret Blakely  25:18   Well, I mean, as you know, we all I mean, I even still like the amount that I learned on on this trip, and I'm three years into my photography journey. So I feel like I somewhat know what I'm doing. But the amount that I learned on this trip was crazy. At times, you don't even realise it. So I would say like, the first trip is to semi second one was Iceland, and the third one was Oregon. So you're dealing with a tonne of variety of like weather conditions, rain, snow, but you're also getting like, what a blessing like those were such cool places to shoot, I have to go back to all of them because I butchered so many of the of the first shots and opportunities. So I think, especially from shooting with, like I went on all three of those with Adam, Danny who's so good compositionally that he I think probably accelerated, the way I look at landscapes and like, made me look outside just a classic take on something because, you know, when you first start, you're disappointing shoot, like, you don't think I'm gonna get low, I'm gonna get high, I'm gonna have a quarter of the frame covered by you know, flowers, or I'm going to shoot in between or look for the Sun Star, there's just so many things that you don't do. Because all you're worried about just making sure it's in focus at first, you know, first time and just making sure you don't butcher the settings, because if you're trying to learn and shoot on manual and everything you're like, so this is it's just so I mean, it was a big learning experience. But I think the biggest shift has also just been necessarily biggest shift. But one of the highlights is been when I felt, and it probably took about a year and a half when I felt like I finally understood postprocessing enough that I could have I could really bring a picture to the vision that I want, you know, like I, I know how to make it something that I want. I'm still I would say an okay, Editor. In my part, like I just have very high expectations. I know a lot of people that I think are way better at editing. One thing that I don't do is I don't try and make every photo look the same. I don't use any presets, I literally start from scratch and every photo because I don't care if it matches the last one. And there's usually enough usually the season provides enough consistency or like little hints of the same colours, you know, I mean, but for me, I know you'll notice even even the way my grid is I really don't care about the grid i i do landscape wildlife, landscape, wildlife, dark, light, dark, light colour, you know, decent, it really doesn't matter, as long as it looks good for that image, because I'm more concerned of how's it gonna look as a print. You know, Instagram is great, but I don't personally need for all of them to have the exact same preset on them or colour tone. And there are artists that do that phenomenally, so it's no knock on them, I just don't think I am skilled enough to turn anytime of day, anytime of anything into you know, a very, very similar looking, colour tone type of things. So I think, you know, getting to the point where I felt like, I knew enough of how to not only capture the photo and field but then really put kind of a little bit of my own style is the biggest part. And for me, I'm a super passionate guy. Very much live my life led by emotion, which isn't always a good thing. But you know, I just whether it's relationships or things that I get really excited about stuff. I'm basically like 39 and a half year old kid. But I think for me like that's what my that's what I hope my style expresses is that like, I want people to feel something. And a lot of a lot of especially in the winter, I was on a clubhouse room and we were talking about style and the one guy had said yeah, I'm looking at your stuff he's like, I just love your style, he said but I can tell you're kind of a dark person I'm like actually quite the opposite just because a lot of my work has very, especially in the winter very moody like I love stormy clouds. I love that, but has nothing to do with negativity for me for me like it's almost a polar opposite. Those represent like life in the scariest moments like when you feel most alive is when you get these just unique, not normal conditions that come together in this perfect storm. So I really love mood and stuff but not because I'm a dark person So just because to me, it's it signifies a very intense emotion. So even if it's a bright mood, I mean, I would say my style is just it's going to be something that I hope makes, you know, the viewer feel something. Because usually if I'm posting it means that I felt something from it, you know, it means something to me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:23   Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And I think, like, I'm the same, I'm horrible at grades go from like, bright yellow to moody, like. And it's, it's great. I think that for you to share that because I guess especially Instagram, right, Instagram had really make that perspective very, very strongly. Because, for for for a point in time, that was the one thing that people think that will bring growth to the Instagram. So right, a lot of people got into that. I know that some people are not doing it intentionally, that they literally just like that kind of mood. But I know there are a lot of other influencers and photographers who actually try to curate, curate, they their colour tone and stuff, and I don't have the patience for it to actually, like, do all that. And I think that that's, that's great that you share that because you're absolutely right, in terms of you know, every every photo have its own feeling like if you got a bright yellow, a full colour, and then you want to make it moody, it just doesn't work, isn't it? Like it's, it's absolutely a different scenery? And and, yeah, so that's, that's really great. Like to hear that, I think there's a lot of inspiration there to be had there. For the listeners to see that, you know, photography is about that moment, like, what is that moment how that makes you feel? And actually, in some of my photo, I would have more of a dreamy kind of fine art look at some more often nature look, because that's how that that's that moment makes me feel, you know, so yeah, absolutely, absolutely love that you share that. And, yeah, I think a lot of listeners can learn a lot from this. So Bret Blakely  32:22   it's almost just like not letting that letting a grid or, again, like, what you think expectations are for your photography from other people. Not letting that be the narrative. Like that should not be what narrates how you and affects how you edit, because like, there's no way that you felt the same or had the same memories in one shot to another. And that is what should determine the direction you go. You know, when you're editing that, not not the other way around. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:53   that's awesome. So with that in mind, this is the next question. And you know, because you mentioned about your conversation in clubhouse about finding the style. So yeah, in your, in your perspective, right, what is style in photography, because you know, if you can just do you know, like, we proceed style as a colour tone as a this, this very monochromatic of genre that you could see that, you know, when people see, your photo is like, Okay, I know, that's, that's Brad's photo, right? But if you kind of have a different interpretation of that image, you could go from one one extreme to another for that reason. So what what what, in your opinion, what is style? And you know, how can you create a style if you approach your photography? It within the moment? Not? Not really collectively? Bret Blakely  33:54   Yeah, I mean, there's something to be said that the way that I go about it may not be the most conducive to having like a absolutely identifiable style, you know, that and that may be it just where do you put that on your priority list? Is it you know, is being recognisable from the first second, I the way I look at is I think the consistent consistency needs to come from the quality if it's a good looking shot, they're going to look at who made it you know, they're gonna they're not going to need to necessarily be like, Oh, well the Greens don't look the same as the last one I saw so it's probably not Hibs. You know, I feel like the quality is what should be what defines your style but like I said, for me I always think it's better to have you know, your style defined by something personal. I mean, genre is going to be a lot of it. There aren't very many people that go way outside their genre not to say that our I mean I do landscape and wildlife. There are people that do product people city or you know, I mean all on one. But usually it's something in the same vein. So that's part of the way you know what style, there's a quarter genre as far as minimalist or whatever. And, like I said to you, I'm going to be a lot of stuff, all posts are going to be in tight or artsy crap shots, too, there may be a way back out massive grandiose type landscape to a minimalist shot, like, so you won't even be able to think of, oh, well, there's a style there too. But I just think I think style is gonna be so different from for everyone, it's kind of almost impossible for me to say, how somebody should find their style, because what it should come from is what what's motivating them to go out and shoot in the first place. So whatever that might be, is, I think, where you're going to eventually find yourself, of course, you have to also do the work and put in the time to learn postprocessing. So that you're able to execute on your vision, like you don't want to have this fully, you know, thought out, I guess, motivation style in your head, and then just not have the skill set to be able to do it. And there's nothing that you know, anybody can just just do the work, put the time into learning the programmes, and you'll be able to, to bring it to life. But yeah, I think that's kind of the most important thing is just making sure you find it for motivation. I actually have a question then for you. Because when I did the finding your style room, I had like five questions I was gonna go through for that room. And we got stuck on the second one for like, two hours because people were really into it. And my question to them, if you don't mind me asking you a question is, do you think? And I'll answer to after? Do you think that your style has been? is more representative, representative of your life experiences up to this point, like as have your life experiences influenced your style? Or do you think photography has changed the way you look at the world, like which of those do you think has been had more of an impact, you know, one being on your style and one on life? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:06   That's interesting. That's really interesting. And I saw that the room when it was in a clubhouse, but I was like, I kind of like jump in there. And I was like, oh, man, this, I would love to get into this conversation. But I had to go, so I had to get out of clubhouse. But that's a really, really interesting topic there. For me, I think, wow, I really never think about that. That's, you know, I think a lot about my my life and my experience, I'm more like philosophy cool, but I never think about that. So that's really interesting. But the way I approach life is really sorry, the way I approach photography, or the photo that I take is really, more in the moment, I believe, you know, if it's a photo itself, like, when I like, take the photo, I really tried to think what I feel there, and that's why I think some of the photo that I take can be more have like a more subtle edit to it with, like, you know, like more natural looks. And with that one, usually, I'm more, I'm more attached to the nature part of it. And I just like, you know, I love the nature and, you know, with that moment, it felt like the nature was the most important thing. And then and at other times, you know, there might be like, I might enhance, like the colour and you know, bring that out a little bit more and more hot, have more of a fine art look to it. Because at that time, I feel more about the vibrance and the excitement that I would get from you know, what it may look like. So the way I approach it really, I really tried to feel and think how I, how I actually felt during that photoshoot? What was the emotion that gone through it? And, you know, when I see that photo itself, what was the emotion that that photo brings to me and I think that's the way I approach both editing and, like, composition wise in photography, but as the general inventory photography I think photography would have more impact. Yeah, yeah. Cuz, like I said, like, it really changed my life. You know, photography, I'm not a patient guy. You know, and when I when I was a kid man, like I could not stand still, you know, I always on a roll, like literally, you know, and now I would literally like I would sit on my my tripod up and I would sit there in front of, you know, whatever scenery may be, and I'm may or may not take a photo, but more often than not, I would stay longer in that place and actually absorb and observe about the environment and what happened around it. And that really that was real The big shift and you know, I had a lot more appreciation for the smaller things, you know, like just the small texture and the small, you know, the low and tree like I never looked at, I never looked at three the same way how I do photography? And I think that's that's a positive impact in my life because yeah, like you just see the, like we mentioned earlier when you take like, photography, right? I have a lot of students who kind of just get started in photography, because, you know, the masterclass that I put on is about, like more about the beginning. And, you know, I do plan to create another one, but, and for that reason, like, I think a lot of my students can have the struggle as well. And I can see where they go, like, like, oh, yeah, I'm in this place. There's nothing interesting here is like, look, again, because I can bet you there is something interesting there. It's like, I mean, I walk through there every single day. It's like, yeah, okay, you walk there. But do you actually look deeper and look at different perspective, because, you know, like, we're on automotive, we go drive to the same place all the time, we don't think about it, we just go like, Get in the car, drive park, there you are. But when I do photography, totally different. Even if it's the same place of going to all the time I go like, okay, so like, there is the big thing, there's the mountain or there is the waterfall, but it's like, what else is there? So I think photography have a bigger impact. How does that? Is that something that you relate, you can relate with? Or how has that been a different effect for yourself? Bret Blakely  41:46   So it's funny, because when I posed the question, I had an answer in my head that I had that day, and I'll give again, but then the more I think about I'm like, Man, both have had such a massive, you know, impact. But for me, what I answered originally was that, I think my, my style of photography was more influenced by my life experiences than necessarily the way I looked at the world. And the reason I would still probably say that is because I've always appreciated that I maybe wasn't as good at finding the subtle beauties, you know, before photography, like, photography has allowed my eyes to definitely see the world more clearly, I think and really, like spot those beautiful things. But from a personality standpoint, and everything, I think I've always been somebody that like, I mean, like I said, I was a kid, taking a picture of a sunset, you know, every minute for 30 minutes in fifth grade, even I didn't have the equipment or skill to take good picture of it. Like, I still very much appreciate that part of the world. So I was gonna say, overall, I think the bigger, you know, shift or impact from one to the other would be I think the reason I like emotion, emotional photos and stuff like that, and moody things are, because that had more of an impact. I feel like I started photography seriously three years ago. And I definitely think like, right from the bat, just because I've always been that type of person that you know, has a heart on his sleeve type thing, and I can cry at a commercial, I have no problem mitigate, you know, I have no problem. Being sensitive, I think that did shape, my style, or what I want it to be, as a photographer from the beginning, even when in the beginning, I definitely didn't know how to express that I didn't know how to post process or turning the images that I was getting on my first few trips into, you know, what, I guess would hope like, if I have to go back, like I said, because I want to redo those and receive those places and be able to really create that emotion with the post process as much as the image that I get there that I just didn't know what I was doing enough, you know, in the first year of photography, so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:09   Yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think this is what really frustrated me about photography, and the social media. Actually, I don't know if social media is to blame. But I think in general, we tried to put labels on everything, like you know, just, like, just approach it with an open mind. Like, you know, like, just because that person approach to photography is different doesn't mean you're, they're wrong. Like it's just different. And I think that is the beautiful thing about this, isn't it? Like that's what make life is beautiful, right? Because everyone is different. But yeah, when you try to put a label on everything, like we, I'm, I'm really, you know, one of the thing that I came with a mission when when I left my job and pursue this career, which I I truly felt in the first eight months was to share the unseen perspective of the world, right. And I think perspective is really important because we can learn from each other's perspective. And when you put a label, unfortunately, whether we like it or not, we really get this, like, Horsh eyes, right, that we go, like, Oh, I think, even though they, they might try to think outside the box, but there is like, a box vision, exactly a tunnel vision. So, you know, I love how you, you know, this, like, conversation been awesome, because like, we just bounce different perspective and different ideas, because that's how we should approach photography, like, you know, somebody like it really saturated and vibrance, like maybe it's not your forte, maybe it's not the best look. But if that's something that really bring them happiness, you know, it's, is that really a problem? Because, right, right, and Bret Blakely  45:59   this would be for them, like, yes, we want other people to like our work, we hope that that's a bonus. But the end of the day, like, it's, if you're not, if you're doing it for that, then you're already behind the game, that shouldn't be doing it for your own for the right reasons. And that's why I like what we talked about with the style thing. First, figure out what your motivation is, because otherwise, your style is going to change so many times, and it's fine. If it does, but not if it's for the wrong reasons. If you're going to change it every time there's a new trend of editing or whatever, then good luck, like you're gonna get so burned out, because you're gonna try and learn a new trend, and you're never going to be as good as you need it to be quick enough for until then it's not a trend. You're like, oh, I finally mastered it. Now it's off to the next, you know, trend. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:48   that's it. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, with that in mind, let me ask you this, like, how? How do you personally try to fight that urge of, you know, this, this tunnel vision that I guess, our environment with the social media? A lot of them have really put that on us? Right? Yeah, you know, the website travels, if you travel a lot, when you, when you look at the website, it has this iconic shot all the time. And, you know, whether you like it or not, it really kind of great, you know, like, it really changed the way you see. And it really like when you get to that shot, they go like, Oh, yeah, this is this place. So how do you how do you fight that urge and, you know, try to look outside of the box. Bret Blakely  47:36   I mean, to be honest, it's I my urge is to not do that, like I don't, I don't really have to fight that urge. Because I don't have that urge. I, I really want I want I consider so many photographers that are way better than me, way better than I'll ever be, no matter how much work I put into it. It could be they're better post product could be they're better at everything, like, I am still a beginner photographer, three years is not a long time, there are people that have been shooting for 2025, you know, I, I only work in Lightroom, I barely know how to do a thing on Photoshop, it's one of the things that are my goals for this year to to learn Photoshop and stuff, not because I want to change a bunch of stuff, but just because they're little things that I can, you know, due to lights and shadows, dodging and burning and stuff that I you know, I can do pretty well on Lightroom. But I'm sure to be able to do do better. So for me, it's like, I always just want to try and push myself to be creative, where what I get in field is like the foundation, and what I get field is already going to be different enough that I don't need to worry about like, processing it in a way that's going to fit a certain trend. I feel like if I if I push myself enough out in the field, and walk away with something that I'm really happy about, then there's zero urge anyway, that's going to like filter into that, my into my mindset, you know, going into post processing. So I think if you can get comfortable with that, and like kind of put more of the pressure on yourself, then, you know, let me be creative enough to see this scene that everybody sees in a way that nobody has, or very few people have. Because that'll make your photo stand out more than anything. And then just you know, I don't think that post processing and the trends of that will be nearly as much of an issue because you're already you're already going to the post processing. Happy with the picture for yourself. So then you're you're not going to feel an urge Well, I don't know if I really like it. So maybe I should just go towards something that everybody likes. I can get that. You know that endorphin from everybody being like, ah, sick man, I love that, you know, sick tones. It's if you're already happy with the photo before even touching in the editing, then it's not going to really be a determining factor. By the end how, you know, I think that urge is almost a moot point. It's not existent. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:06   Awesome. Yeah. So what what would you what would you say to someone who, you know, have this kind of struggle and urge or? Or not really have struggle? Or they might, they might not notice it right? But what would you say to the people out there who, who kind of struggled to get out of the comfort zone or who want to be able to capture a more unique photos? Than you know, the typical postcard or Instagram shot? What? You know, Wes, what are some of your mindset shifts that you can pass on to them? Yeah. Bret Blakely  50:45   So a lot of times I sent my, one of my good friends came out to two towns with me who's not a photographer, but he loves the outdoors. And so he borrowed his mom's camera just so we'd have something to take. And every day, you know, just like most photographers, you point and shoot, like, you know, not thinking about anything else. And like, as I can I give you some advice, like just ways to go about it, you know, because trust me, every photographer does what you're doing the first time they have a camera out, and of course out there, there was so much to see just like smiling and taking pictures. So happy, right? Like a like a pig and shit and, and suddenly, but no matter what level of photographer I mean, now I find myself often like I got so I guess trained to shoot in Portrait mode because of Instagram. And then I started getting print requests. And I'm like, Oh my God, I need it for like people like prints and horizontal. A lot of times, like, sometimes portrait mode is not really the best mode so often often shoot the same scene, vertical, horizontal, high perspective, low perspective, have, you know, core recovered with a foreground element perspective. You know, I'll basically it was a challenge I put out to one of the rooms that was doing clubhouse would try and shoot something five different ways. And then try and edit it five different ways, you know, totally different fields, because that also helps people that don't really know what their style is figure it out. And also just give you flexibility, especially if you're selling prints or something if a client wants, like, Man, I love that shot, but I wish I had, you know, I needed to cover a hole, I need to be three feet wide or something or two feet wide, then you're like, actually, I have that shot. You know, I've got that shot too. So don't worry. So that'd be one thing, I would say, try and shoot, try and find five different compositions within a little, you know, three by three foot area that you stand in, you know, shoot a high, shoot a low shoot it all different ways on a tripod with a long exposure without a long exposure. And that's one thing. And then yeah, I would also just say, the more you become comfortable with postprocessing, the more you continue like that learning process, I think that's another way that you will not feel you will not feel pressured to fit into a trend. Because there's when there's a trend, there's always a video on how to do that trend. So yeah, it can be easy for you to just be like, how to edit like so and so and then they're gonna find a video. And it will literally walk you through your photo, like I did that in the beginning, that's supposed to find out how to do things like I didn't really understand how the light you know, the colour sliders were affecting and colour calibration, it's a great way to learn. Like if there are people that you I don't recommend not doing that as far as a learning tool. But I want to go about that and be like, Well, I'm just going to find whoever taught and that trend find a YouTube for it. So one thing that I've been doing this whole year, it's been my goal for 2021 to watch at least one tutorial video every night on anything real photography related doesn't always have to be whatever I feel like I need to get better at because for the first year, I was first six, nine months, I was watching all the time I was obsessed, then I just became more concerned with just getting out and shooting all the time and kind of forgot to continue the learning. And then I was like, you know, I there's still so much I need to learn. And you know, just even going back to some of the basic ones. It's good to like hammer those in. So I always challenge people to try and like commit. It's the last thing I do before I go to bed every night is just watch you know, a 15 to 30 minute YouTube video. Sometimes I take notes sometimes I don't even I just let it sink in. And then lo and behold, I noticed you know, two weeks later on post processing, and this technique I didn't even remember that I knew how to do from a video I watched you know two weeks ago I'm like, Oh, this would be great. They're great photo to try that on. So, you know that'll that'll help a lot. You know, once you have once you're more in control of of how something's gonna turn out you're not really going to feel the need to, I guess get into a trend I think. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:03   Awesome. Yeah. Like, that's, that's really awesome. Absolutely love that. And there's a lot of really good advice in there. You know, if you are listening, you might want to just rewind back to that fortune because that is such an amazing advice, especially, you know, for someone who kind of just started because I remember when I first started who just shot on on on phone? That's exactly what I did. I was, you know, I don't know, what's what's, what's composition is that I was curious, just like you and you shooting sunset, I would do like, literally I would be like, take one here, take one here and like, you know, just like snap happy, right? So people call it is you just take a whole bunch of photos and you know, at the end of it all when you have when all of those adrenaline kinda like toned down a little bit when you come back home, you know, you don't have the excitement that just make you push the button, you could actually think about it a little bit more and see, you know, which one kind of works. I didn't amazing advice. And you know, it's it's so easy to do, like, I know, like, as photographers, sometimes we get lazy, right? To kind of do this. It sounds like it's tedious. Like what take five photo of the same exact thing. Are you crazy? So it's great that you mentioned that because I think it's it's one of the best thing to to learn in, in photography, or actually in anything for that matter, because you get to see what works and what doesn't. Well, right, that's, you know, like, Man, I had so much fun, would love to have a chat more, we kind of come into the hour mark, and I'm not sure how much longer our listeners can can listen. But I definitely would love to have you back at some point. You know, I had, I had so much fun, just bouncing ideas from you and so many things that just really opened up my mind just like wow, I never really think about that. And I think you know, just the way you you, you you share your advice, your wisdom. One thing that I really want to make sure if you are listening is to have that open mind like you know, like Brett really, really share a lot of his wisdom and really share how you could broaden your view instead of you know, and there is no right answer here. Like there's just so important to really hone that in. So Brett, you have such amazing not only advice but also you have such a beautiful gallery of photos and now for those people who cannot want to get in touch with your connect with you or you know see more of your work. What is the best way for them to find you? Bret Blakely  57:53   Oh yeah, for sure man and thank you so much for the discussion. I really enjoyed it. Definitely hope we get to shoot together one day but yeah, to find me I mean, Brent Blakely just be R et de la que el y that's my Instagram. I respond to every single direct message I get. I try and remain very engaged because it helped me out a lot. You know, when I reached out to names and I remember the ones that did and you know, and it's just not cool. Like when somebody is trying to learn ask you for advice or even if they're just giving you a compliment. I think I think you know ignoring those is really messed up. We're all the exact same you know, living on the same world so that's easy. You can DM me on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, Brent Blakely photography. I do have a website Brent Blakely dot dark excuse me dark room dot tech right now it's just an easy you know basic site that sells prints I'm going to be working on one that has more storytelling behind it that you know I have videos from my adventures from and blogs and things like that. But that's just that's a 2021 goal it's not you know not ready yet but if someone's interested in Prince Brett Blakely that dark room devtech Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:09   Awesome awesome and listeners if you you know if you're tuning in and if you're listening to this discussion, highly recommend to have a look at his gallery because his photo is just so beautiful and and you know, whatever he say here it's it's very true like you go to to his gallery, you can see all sorts of stuff, you know, from different genre and I think that makes it really interesting and dynamic to to enjoy. So yeah, highly recommend to check out his work and also Bret Blakely  59:45   they got to check out your work because their stuff is amazing and I love it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:48   Appreciate that right. But look, listeners. Thank you very much for tuning in. I hope you have a tonne of wisdom from on that on how to approach your photography, as well as how to think about what is photography, because it's really important that it is about you before you make it about everything, everyone else. So I think that's one thing that I really want to hone in in this discussion. And, you know, for those of you listen, if you enjoy this episode or the podcast, please help me out and shoot that like button, hit the subscribe button. Next time you get more of this golden nugget in, you know, in that you get to listen to beautiful inspiration for all photographers all around the world from all the different experience. So thanks a lot for tuning in wiki hunters. And, Brett again. Thank you so much for sharing a lot of your wisdom. It had been such an A fun hour. And you know what, like, I started this podcast because when I wanted to hear more inspiration and happiness in this darker times, but you know, this podcast every time I talk to a new photographer had really bring like a lot of inspiration for myself. So thanks a lot for bringing that to the table. And yeah, I think thank you very much for sharing your time and wisdom with us. My pleasure. Bret Blakely  1:01:22   Such a cool honour to be on and thanks a lot. Keep killing it. I'll be in touch with you for sure.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  I'm excited to have Viktoria Haack, Nikon and Lowepro Ambassador to join us this week. Viktoria shared her story on how she decided not to niche down on her photography. She shared her humble beginning and how she progressed in her photography journey over the years. Viktoria shared her view and approach on the different photography genre and how she finds the balance to avoid burn out and keep her spark and passion in photography. You can learn more about her by connecting in https://www.viktoriahaackphotography.ca/    https://www.instagram.com/viktoriahaack/   https://www.facebook.com/viktoriahaack  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------- Transcription: Viktoria Haack  0:00   You know, I don't consider myself to be a landscape photographer or a wedding photographer. I just consider myself to be a photographer. So wherever I am, whatever I want to shoot I shoot Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:20   Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share our passion and how photography gives us hope, purpose and happiness. Today, I have someone very excited, exciting. And Victoria has been, you know, in the game for a while, and she is one of the world class photographer who is currently living here in Canada. I guess it's still considered as Canadian Rockies. And you know, if you look at her photos, she goes from portrait all the way to landscape and her photos are absolutely amazing. So without further further ado, I'd like to welcome Victoria How're you doing, Victoria? Hi, Sandy. Viktoria Haack  1:02   I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05   Oh, perfect. Well, yeah, thank you very much for joining us. I'm sure the listener will be, you know, very excited to listen to some of your story and some of your struggles. So first of all, give us a little bit introduction, you know, who is Victoria, and kind of give us a little bit of background, how you fell in love with photography in the first place. And why you decided to, you know, make it a full time thing. Viktoria Haack  1:36   Okay, so I've been doing photography, probably, well, I mean, I should probably start by saying I've always been interested in in the art, so I was going to be a fine artist. And I headed off to art college to do that to start with. And then I ended up doing an art history degree. And I studied more kind of anthropology and non western art. So that was kind of interesting. So I moved away from actually physically creating art for a while. I then ended up working for the National Trust in the UK, which is a big conservation charity. And I moved on to a tiny island with my husband, and this island was only 500 acres in size, and only about 10 minutes from the mainland. But we were fairly isolated, the boats would stop running at about 430 In the afternoon, and they didn't run before, I think it was eight o'clock in the morning. So we were kind of stuck on this little island. And it was beautiful. It was a nature reserve. And it was really beautiful. But it was at that point that I picked my camera back up. I mean, there wasn't, you know, you couldn't kind of pop to the cafe or the pub or whatever at night. So really well, you know, it was fairly isolated in from that respect. So I picked my camera back up, and I had a dog and so I would walk the dog on the island, and I would just take my camera with me. And so I was seeing the same kind of views every day, but with a little bit of different light or a little bit of mist or things like that. So that's kind of where I started with photography. And when I lived on the island, I had no one to really share what I was shooting with. So I, I started using online stuff. So I went online, and there was a a site called Deviant Art, which I used. And so I would upload my images. And I would get inspiration from the other photographers that I could see on that site. And I was very new to it. Also, I was kind of learning the craft by looking at their images, and then trying to figure out how they done stuff. And then sharing my images and, you know, getting some feedback from people. And so that's kind of how it really started. And I guess I was lucky in that my first commercial client was the National Trust, who are a very large organisation in the UK, but because I worked for them, you know, it was a great, great step, they needed some images of the island, I had images. And so my first big client was this huge client. So that was pretty awesome as a start. And then we left the island after 10 years looking for a place that was kind of quiet. But and so that we could, you know, maybe go out for a meal in a restaurant or like go to the pub or something. But we still wanted it to not be you know, super busy and we love the landscape. And my brother lived in Canada at the time. And so we ended up moving to Canada. And we've been here ever since. So that was 13 years ago that we moved here. And then I continued you know, I was suddenly able to visit way more places so I could jump in the car, and you know, go shoot different stuff. I had more than 500 acres to shoot. And so you know, it was fantastic. And I continue to post my stuff on social media. I started using Facebook at the time. And then I think inevitably, you know, what happens is if you're in a small community, people see your work and then you know They'll think, oh, this person is a photographer, maybe they can photograph my kids or something. And so I ended up, you know, shooting, doing kind of family stuff. And it was terrible, you know, really scary, you know, shooting commercially and people paying me for stuff, they'd see my landscapes and then asked me to shoot that family. And I was like, Oh, okay. So I kind of fell into commercial work that way. And it just kind of escalated from there. So then I, you know, I shot my first wedding, which was kind of scary, but then, you know, I kind of got over that, and continued doing that. And, really, it's just a story of living in a small community and shooting a lot of different things. Because I couldn't be, there wouldn't be an industry to support me as a food photographer, for example, in this tiny little town, so I needed to continue to shoot everything. And initially, my landscaping nature work didn't really generate any kind of income, you know, I was just really shooting that for myself. And then gradually, that has come as well. So I'm pretty lucky that I can be a photographer who shoots many different things and can turn my eye in a lot of different directions and still make an income from all those different sources. So that's kind of my story of how I got here. That's amazing. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:13   do you still shoot a wedding? Or you can put that, oh, wow, okay. Viktoria Haack  6:19   Still, my, my income is made of so many different kinds of small things. So I mean, I'm not making a load of money from one big thing. But my, my income comes from a number of smaller kind of sources. And I think the thing that I enjoy was, at one point, I was making, you know, quite a lot of money from wedding photography, but I felt kind of burnt out, I didn't want to be shooting, you know, weddings all summer, and my daughter was growing up, and I was spending my summer editing. And so I thought, you know, okay, I'm just not going to do too much of that, I'm going to do a little bit of that. And so I've always tried to keep everything in some kind of a balance, so that I don't get, you know, don't get bored of shooting people's weddings, and I don't dread shooting the next wedding, I actually look forward to it, because I don't do you know, so much of it. Like when again, when I was first doing kind of commercial people photography, I would get to kind of the end of the fall, which is big kind of family photo time. And I would just say I don't want to see another smiling face, you know, just put take me to the mountains, I just want to get out of it. So I've tried to, and I've been lucky that I've been able to kind of balance the different genres so that I can enjoy, you know, still continuing to shoot wedding photography, still doing family stuff, or whatever it is. But there's a nice kind of a balance. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:36   So that's great to hear. Thanks for sharing that, you know, I myself love. I love so many things I like, you know, so many different genres of photography, and I find I struggle with that, like trying to find a balance. And that's, you know exactly what you say I usually do one thing so much and now burnout and and move on to the next day and then go like, Oh, I missed the other thing is, yeah, it's interesting that you share that. It's it's definitely, like a different type of photography really bring a different type of fulfilment, I suppose. To our soul. So yeah, very interesting. And so I see a lot of this work from you where it's, it's like a winter wonderland. Portrait, like a moral landscape that is complemented with a portrait not Not, not mainly a portrait, but like a landscape with a portrait. And, you know, those, those work are just so beautiful. I really love being able to have that fashion part of it with the landscape. What got you started into that? And, yeah, share us a little bit what got you into the story into that and why you started to do that. Viktoria Haack  8:52   I think because all the different genres of photography that I shoot crossover, I don't see any kind of, you know, I don't see any, you know, I don't consider myself to be a landscape photographer, or a wedding photographer, I just consider myself to be a photographer. So wherever I am, whatever I want to shoot, I shoot. So if I'm shooting a landscape, and I think, oh, this might be cool to, you know, put a person in there and see what that looks like, then that's what I do. Like, I just don't feel that there are any, I don't want to be bounded by any kind of, you know, I don't want any boundaries on what I can shoot. So basically, if I'm in the landscape, and I happen to be hiking with a friend and you know, I think I maybe shoot the landscape and I think it's missing something or it you know, how interesting would it be to put the human element in here and sometimes I will shoot those shots and they will never see the light of day and sometimes the shots with the human and the ones that I you know, prefer to share or maybe I share both, but it's just another you know, facet of things that interests me and I could just be with my A dog might pop him into the shot just to see how that looks. So there's, I really just have no, I think there's just no there. And there's also not an awful lot of pre planning, I'm usually just in the place, and I just do whatever feels like I want to do. Like, it's as simple as that really Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:20   awesome. And so I, you know, when I, when I think of, you know, landscape photography, or when I'm on the wearing the landscape photography, hat, usually I really focus about the landscape and the nature and stuff like that and totally forgot about, you know, adding human element on that. But when I see your work, it really creates something that is that is extra ordinary, you know, like something that's really different. How do you how do you think that adding human to your to landscape help you with creativity and creating a more unique images? Viktoria Haack  11:01   Um, I mean, there are people that absolutely hate seeing the human element in the landscape. And I'm, I'm also one of those people too, sometimes, you know, I just don't want to see I just want to see the landscape. I don't know, I think it's a difficult one. Yeah, I don't know, I've kind of I'm kind of lost track of my thought now. But sorry, remind me again, what the question is, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:29   I was just, my question was just simply like, you know, do you think that it's important for photographers, you know, like people like landscape photographers, to think about a different genre of photography, and try to incorporate that with, you know, what they love the most in photography, in order to create a unique type of photo, you know, we all know that photography is, can be saturated in a way. So Does, does that help you with your creativity and being able to create something that stands out? Viktoria Haack  12:04   I think so. I mean, I think we're all so different, that I think that, you know, if you, I think you should I, my feeling is that you should just do whatever speaks to you, if it, you know, I don't think that landscape photographers should necessarily put a human element into their landscape photography, if that's not their thing, you know, but if they want to, then why should they not that, you know, I just think that it should be it's an art form. And it's, however, you want to express yourself in whatever medium and I think, just because you're a landscape photographer, you shouldn't feel that you shouldn't do that thing, if you want to do that thing. But I think it should just be open, I think you should, you know, in the same way that I think that, you know, you don't have to shoot the landscape with a wide angle lens, you can shoot it with a long lens, you can shoot details, you can shoot, you know, I don't think there should be any rules, really, in that respect, I think, you know, it's an art form, and you should be able to express yourself and shoot, you know, however you want to do it. And just for me, sometimes adding the human element adds something to certain images. And sometimes it probably doesn't, and then I won't use that shot, or maybe I do use that shot. And people are just like, why the heck did you put that? You know, sometimes maybe it doesn't work? I don't know. But I just, you know, sometimes it just adds maybe a little bit of scale or adds, you know, I think I posted a shot on my Instagram recently, it was a frozen waterfall, and I posted the shot without the human element and the shot with the human element, you know, and then there are those people that, you know, the majority of people on Instagram prefer the human element, but that just might be, you know, the people that were looking at that image, and for some people, they probably would just rather not see a person in there. So, you know, it's so subjective. I'm not very good at giving you a clear answer on that one. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:50   But that's great. Yeah. So like, I guess what I get from that is, you know, not don't be afraid to, to go outside your comfort zone and try to incorporate different things in your photography. Viktoria Haack  14:03   Yeah, I agree. And I think there is some, you know, I think sometimes if you're labelled as a landscape photographer, you know, why should you not you know, but people that just are very keen, I think, sometimes to stay within their particular genre, because they think that it's going to, if they shoot other stuff, or share other stuff, and I think the other thing that I've learned from a lot of photographers is that they do shoot a lot of different things, but they just don't choose to share it, they choose to just share the thing that they want to be known for. And I mean, I don't know whether that's, you know, there there are schools of thought that that say that that's definitely the way that you should go and that's definitely what I always you know, learned was that you know, you should, you should have a niche, you should just shoot the one thing and be a specialist at that. But all I can say that is in my own personal experience. The opposite has worked for me I have kind of made more of a name for myself by being more of a generalist and shooting different things. Things that I have from just shooting the one thing, but I hope that people would still take me seriously in whichever genre I'm, you know, shooting, and that's the thing. I don't know, maybe I'm not considered to be a landscape in nature photographer by many people, because I shoot other stuff, too. I don't know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:19   That's fantastic. Yeah, I mean, you know, I know that there are a lot of photographers out there who enjoy just shooting and not, not being able to, I guess not, not not being able, but not being pressured to label themselves as a certain photographer would really, you know, take that weights off, you know, their shoulder, as, as you say earlier, there's a lot of this notion of, you know, niching, down, niching down, and, you know, it might be true in a way but in some other way, if that takes away the happiness of shooting and taking photo, then I totally agree with you, you know, just do do take what you love. So really good advice there, thank you very much for sharing that. Sharing some, some of your struggle I know, you know, being a female in a male dominated photography, male dominated industry can be challenging, I would be guessing. So share some of your struggles, and maybe some of the stories on where you can where the listeners can find some inspiration and find some. What do you call it, like, someone to look up to, when it comes to photography and excelling in photography? Viktoria Haack  16:41   So I think, you know, when I was starting out, it was there were definitely more male kind of landscape and nature photographers that you would see, I don't know that there are less women shooting, I just think that they were less visible. And, you know, this is something that I've really thought about a lot, I think, certainly there are more and more female, nature and landscape photographers becoming visible. And I think that's the key is that people just need to see that there are people like them out there. And I think that, you know, it comes down to you know, the colour of your skin, and, you know, whatever it is, like, you need to see that there are people like you doing the thing that you love, because that helps you to feel that you you can succeed in that thing. So yeah, I mean, to be honest, like, I haven't had huge struggles, I don't think as a as a woman, just Well, I don't know, maybe I just maybe I just don't notice stuff. But I think the main thing has just been the lack of visibility of women out there. And I think that's certainly changing these days, you're seeing a lot more women. And, and I think a lot, there are more different styles of kind of nature and landscape photography that we're seeing as well, because I know, you know, at one point, I was using a kind of 500 px as an example of as a, an online sharing platform, and you would see very similar styles of photography all the time, you know, very much the wide angle, excuse me, landscape. And I think, you know, things, I'm certainly seeing a change in what I'm viewing on social media, I'm seeing, you know, different styles of nature and landscape photography, which is a real kind of breath of fresh air, I just think anything that opens the doors and allows people to express themselves and not feel that this is the only way or this is, this is the only way to be popular, if that's what they want. You know, it's just nice to see, as with everything in life, a diversity of, you know, people and of styles. And, you know, that's, that's yeah, I'm not sure if I went off track again, there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:51   It's very interesting that you mentioned that actually, because I never really considered that. But yeah, like, it's very interesting that, to think that, you know, it might not necessarily there are less female photographers, but maybe just less female photographers that are more vocal about it, that there wasn't as much back then. So that's very interesting point of view. Viktoria Haack  19:14   So sorry, just to interrupt, but I do own workshops and things, you know, the the number of women, there's loads of women up there, and when I'm out, you know, in the back country and stuff, but there's not more men than women, and there's, you know, just as many women with cameras and stuff, they're out there doing it, but for some reason they've just not been as visible I think, you know, that's that's the thing. There's definitely a lot of women out there doing it. Sorry. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:39   Yeah, no, that's perfect. And so is that I guess, you know, like being a male like we all like to we all have that dominant you know, nature on our cell phone, that self centeredness you're gonna get there. Well, there's the female subtypes are a little bit more mode is about there. But they are about themselves. So would you encourage? What would what would you encourage other female photographers to get out there and to be to share more of their work? You know, to be seen more of, in this world of photography. Viktoria Haack  20:15   So you say, what? How would I encourage them to? Yeah, what what I think sometimes, as well, with female photographers, they tend to be just for my, the experience that I've had, and I could be wrong with this, but I see a kind of an intuitiveness, about female photographers, often it's less, they tend to be less technical, and more kind of intuitive, intuitive. And so sometimes when they're placed in a situation with, you know, guys who are maybe talking or kind of techie terms, it can be a bit a bit intimidating, or it's just not the way that their brain and I'm not might be making sweeping statements here, I'm not sure. But I know, I've been in situations where, you know, I've been sitting with, you know, some some guys chatting about landscape photography, and there tends to be a very kind of technical bias to that kind of talk. And sometimes I feel a little lost, but you know, I can look at I know my staff, but it's, it's an intuitive kind of, I can't necessarily put the right word to it, but it's more of an intuitive thing. And I think for some women, because that there were a lot of men that were very visible in the landscape field and running the workshops, and that kind of stuff, the thought of going on one of those workshops where maybe you the technical side would be would be just kept, you know, sort of talked about in terms that weren't as, as, as easy for you to connect to. Maybe that has been something that women have found difficult. But, you know, I hope I'm not making massive sweeping statements here about the sexes, but and there are lots of women who are really technically savvy, I'm not one of those women, but for different, I should really be talking from my own point of view, but certainly for me, I'm not that technical. So that kind of stuff I find a little bit intimidating. And so I could see maybe some other women might feel the same. I don't know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:12   Interesting, thanks for sharing that point of view. I've never really again, it's something that I never really think about. And yeah, that's very interesting to think about, you know, whether how we approach it as, as a human in terms of photography, so I'm really get technical about the gears and the settings. And I know that there is a lot of people who really care a lot about, like, what the settings is, well as like, you know, like, for example, for me, like if you if you ask me, it's like, what setting you shoot is like, I'm not sure I just put it on the aperture priority mode. And, you know, if you set your priority, right, the, the photo will turn out, right. So that's, I can totally relate to that. And that's, I think that's not only in, you know, fail in mail kind of separation, but just like in personality separation, I can definitely see that. Because, like, when I when I see people talking about it's like, oh, yeah, this is the settings, I get switched off as well. It's like, you know, like, it's just a number guys. So, yeah, I'm glad that you share that. It's something that I've never really think about. And I guess when you know, when you do like a workshop, a lot of workshop like yourself, it's important to understand that point of view so that you can relate to different people at their own level. So perfect. Yeah. Viktoria Haack  23:35   Sorry, carry on. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:38   So, share share with us. One of your favourite story in photography, or your favourite moment in photography, where you, you know, where you capture a certain photo and it's just maybe one of your favourite or one of your memorable because of the condition that you had to capture those photos. Viktoria Haack  24:00   I'm just trying to think of one I guess one of my, one of my favourite images would be one that I shot. I think it was not this last fall but the fall before and I just headed out with a friend. And we had some kind of Misty conditions but no sun coming through. So it's very kind of dull and and sort of overcast but some some some quite nice poor frost and mist, but just waiting for the light to come. And we will just buy a lake and we had suddenly had about 10 minutes of this beautiful the light just broke through the clouds. And we just had these beautiful light rays and just this intense, beautiful life for just a short sliver of time and then disappeared again. But I get I think it's moments like that for me like just these, you know when you're in nature and especially when you go out as regularly as I do and, you know, quite often conditions are not not optimal for the for the kind of, I don't know, and this is the other, we're going off point here in my mind because you know there are, you can say that conditions are not optimal for landscape photography, but really any conditions can be great for landscape photography, you just have to go out. But when you do hit those golden moments when you know the light does something beautiful and you happen to be in the right spot, and you know, you can shoot it, it kind of, it really helps with those many days when you head out with your camera. And you know, you don't get that kind of situation. And you know, you can be shooting all sorts of things you can be shooting puddles with, you know, frozen puddles, or leaves, or you know, there's so many different things you can shoot, but it is really nice when nature delivers those amazing moments and you happen to be there, especially when you go out as regularly as I do, and that doesn't happen. So it is nice when it does. But yeah, I guess that would be one moment. Interesting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:55   And, you know, I'm glad that you mentioned that because I think as, as photographers, we really get fixated on that perfect, perfect moments, I'd say in quotation marks. The audience might not necessarily be able to see that, but I'm doing this quotation mark, get jester here. Yeah, that perfect moment. And I love how you share that. You know, like, it's not always about that perfect moment. One thing that I want to, I want to get your take on is, you know, especially like you do like weddings as well. What, what can you do when, when the condition doesn't turn out the way you like it, like, you know, or the way you expect it, I should say, because, you know, as a photographer, whatever photoshoot we we plan to do, usually we have this expectation of, you know, the lights going to be like this, and the sun's gonna be you know, at a certain angle or whatever it may be, you know, but what, what can you do? And what what do you do when the condition can I just say it's like, you know, what I'm getting give you the whole total expectation from from what you had in mind. Viktoria Haack  27:07   I think it's two, it's kind of different when I'm shooting portrait stuff to landscape stuff. But as an example of a landscape situation, I was heading into the back country in the footage last fall with it with a couple of friends and the forest fires were really raging down in the US and the smoke was really bad coming up into Canada. And, you know, you could you could barely see anything like you couldn't see the mountains, you couldn't, you know, it's like, do we go like, we can't even see the mountains. And then of course, you've got the issue of actually hiking in those smoky conditions. And you know, how much you breathing in, and is it worth doing this, and I know, loads of people, because that particular hike that we were booked onto, we'd had real problems getting onto it, it was very popular. And so loads of people had cancelled that trip, and maybe partly because of the actual physical problems they might encounter with hiking in the smoke. But I that trip produced some of the most, some of the images that I loved the best last year, that hazy smoke, added this amazing atmosphere to the shots. They're some of my favourite images. And I think, you know, if I'd have actually looked at, you know, I did look at the forecast. And if I'd have gone by that and thought, well, you know, I won't see the mountains, and you know, it, I think, you know, sometimes those adverse conditions can produce the most beautiful and unexpected things. And I think that can be the issue with projecting forward what you want to capture rather than just being I mean, I think, you know, we all do that to some extent. And I certainly, if I'm going to a place, I will look at images of that area, just to get some idea of what I might see and that kind of stuff, and you see certain conditions, and you're just like, Oh, I really want that I really want those conditions. But I think if you just go with an open mind and adapt to whatever is provided, sometimes those adverse conditions can produce the most beautiful and unexpected results, but you just have to adapt to the environment and not be fixated on Well, I was going to get that shot with that tree and that mountain and it doesn't work because of this and so I can't shoot it you just arrive and then just see what is presenting itself to you and shoot it that way. And then I think with the portrait stuff, you know, again, I'm when I shoot, when I shoot portrait stuff for me, the environment, again is really important. So I'm often looking at weather forecasts and you know, trying to predict whether if there's sun, what direction will it be in so you know, where am I going to position my client or whatever. So it's a slightly different situation, but whatever happens, you know, if you're booked to shoot at that time, then you have to just go with the conditions that are available and adapt. And, you know, for example, if it's a super bright sunny day, you know, then maybe move your subject into the shade. You'd or you know, there's loads of different things you can do. But it's slightly different, I think, with portraiture and I mean, I've got a shoot coming up tomorrow. And I need to look at the weather forecast. So I will start by, you know, it's a portrait shoot, I will start by looking at the weather forecast and trying to figure out what the light might be might be doing. So then I can decide on what kind of location but at the end of the day, it could all be totally different. So I'm just gonna have to kind of plan according to that, and then just go with whatever I'm provided with, and try and make the best of it and move things around to just make use of the conditions. And quite often, you go into a shoot with the idea of maybe the thing that you want to get, but quite often, you'll come up with something entirely different, but it could be better. So I just think Don't be disappointed if you can't capture the thing that you envisioned. You can have that kind of idea, but maybe something even better will happen. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:56   awesome. Yeah, I think one that one word that I really like what you just mentioned, you know, within that, within what you shared earlier, is that that open mind, like approach it with an open mind. And I think that's a really, really strong word, when it comes to photography, because I know I had done this in the past, where I go come to a location, the condition doesn't look great. And then I would just go home. But over time, like you say, like, you know, sometimes it's unexpected, unexpected things would happen. And if you don't, if you don't approach photography, with an open mind, I probably would miss a lot of those moments for sure. Because, you know, we just go like, okay, not great, let's go home. But if you approach it with an open mind, you could look past that and look at different things around the area. So yeah, that's a really good advice that you have, they're fantastic. And so, do you have a source of inspiration that you usually go to when it feels like, you know, when you feel uninspired, or when you feel like, you know, like, when you don't feel like taking photos, and your photo is just like repetition or, you know, boring and so forth? How would you find? And how would you get out of that mindset and try to find that spark, again, and that creativity within yourself to create a photo that you can be excited again, Viktoria Haack  32:25   I think, you know, I spend quite a lot of time looking at the work of other photographers, and, you know, kind of going down rabbit holes on different social media platforms, and, you know, looking at people's websites and that kind of stuff. And so yeah, I just find looking at other people's art, you know, if I'm struggling, you know, I know, with the pandemic, and people not being able to travel, I've been become a lot more interested in the smaller scenes, which I was interested in back when I started photography, but that stuff kind of went by the wayside a little bit. And so looking at the way that, you know, certain people are shooting, you know, kind of smaller scenes and stuff, that gives me inspiration. And so, you know, I'll head out with my dog with no plan to shoot anything, but just take my camera. And then as I'm moving around in the forest, and the light does something or I see something, you know, sometimes in the back of my mind, I'll come back to some of those images that I've seen, and I've been maybe looking at recently and they will help to inspire me or help me to think about how I would approach shooting that certain subject. So I think, you know, looking at other people's work is is for me, that's one of the you know, and I think you know, not just looking at one person you never want to to just copy somebody but just taking inspiration from a number of different photographers is probably how I do and artists as well and sometimes reading stuff or watching a movie can trigger something you know, you can be watching a movie and then there's some kind of like, you know, if you're into portrait photography and you watch Blade Runner or something like that, you know there's a certain feel to that movie. And that can can help me to feel inspired about maybe doing some kind of a shoot with that kind of a feel or so yeah, just being open to kind of and the same with music you know, music can can kind of make me feel creative as well. So yeah, a number of different ways. But I think for me, I just you know, I have to just go out as well so look at stuff you know, look at stuff in books or on the screens or whatever, but then I have to actually go out there's no point in me just sitting here thinking about well if I do this, you know, I've just I've just need to get out there and actually, you know, maybe not go out there with the intention of shooting but have my camera with me and then that everything kind of comes into play the images that I've seen will you know they'll still be in my mind and that kind of stuff. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:50   Awesome. Yeah, that's a it's really interesting with the music, something that I've never really considered but yeah, you're right because like with the music, you get this stuff. From feeling and you know, when you have different feeling you approach things differently, never really done that, but definitely something that I would try now. That's very interesting advice there. Now with, with the, you know, photography being, we can call it saturated being so popular, right? How do you stand out amongst all of these photographers? You know, for, for those listeners who can just start it and in their journey in, in their photography journey, what kind of advice would you would you give them to be able to stand out from other photographers Viktoria Haack  35:43   out there? I think the key thing is to not try to adapt yourself to what you think that you should be or, you know, I think you need to really hold on to the thing that's important to you. So for example, you know, if you, I don't know, if you if you're stuck at home with your kids, you know, and and photographing your kids in a certain way is the thing that really speaks to you. There's no point in trying to be I don't know, I think really, whatever's really interests, you don't shoot stuff that doesn't interest you. Because there's no point there'll be no soul in it. So she, what, what means something to you, and what interests you and, and stick with it, and you can listen to advice from people and take little snippets of it. But ultimately, I think, listening to your own gut feeling about what speaks to you, and what works for you, is certainly what I've done. You know, I mean, like I said earlier, so many people said, Oh, you need you need to specialise, you need to be this, you need to be that. And I just thought, well, you know, I don't want to, like I want to, if I want to shoot that, I want to shoot that. And so I'm going to do it. And I might, you might know that if you put it out there, if you're engaging stuff by some of your social media, you know, you're gonna have people that will be like, Oh, I didn't want to see that. And maybe they'll unfollow you, but that's okay. With me. I'm just like, Okay, well, that's okay. You know, if you don't, if you don't want to stick around for those kind of images, then you know, by that's okay. Like, I'll still continue to, to shoot what, what interests me and I think that's the key for people. You know, just really stick with what resonates, resonates for you. And then ultimately, you know, hopefully, your own vision will bring you above the crowd. And you'll kind of, hopefully, if you want to get noticed, I don't know, but you'll certainly feel more fulfilled if that's, you know, if you're not in it for the for the money or you're not in it for the social media, then you'll certainly feel more fulfilled if you do it for yourself as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:48   Awesome. Yeah, that's, I think that's something that's really important for I mean, in photography, anyway, I know that I have kind of fall down that mistake before where, you know, I cannot take away my love for photography, trying to confirm conform with what other people like. So really, I think that's really important in photography or in, in sustaining your love for photography in the longer term. Yeah, really. And so, having said that, you know, like when you kind of shift from, for those listeners who kind of want to shift from just being a hobby and try to make a living out of their passion, whether they want to do it as a full time or a part time, what are some of the advice can you can you give them, you know, based on your journey, Viktoria Haack  38:42   um, it's gonna be so different for every single photographer, it's really hard to know, I think, just, I think always trying to be sort of true to yourself. And, you know, whether you're trying to make money or not people, if, you know, people tend to buy from people that they like, as well. So, you know, if you're, if you're going to spend an hour shooting with someone, they kind of, you know, they want to like you as well, so, I don't know, it's a tough one, but be true to yourself, don't be an asshole, like try and be a nice person. And, you know, I think that kind of pays off really, like you know, just be a nice person, be somebody who responds to people that that inquires of things with you be be someone who hopefully is generally likeable. And then they might want to do business with you. And it's not really a photography. It's not too much about the imagery but more about just the kind of person that you are. I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:49   that's, that's really interesting. I mean, you know, when you think about it, it's very true. You know, like, nowadays people with with the social media, we feel like it feels sometimes it feels like it's more distance, right with with, with, with this human interaction. So I think that's a really good advice, being able to being able to be a person and be personable will actually give you a competitive advantage. Yeah, that's a really good advice. Viktoria Haack  40:19   I think so. And I think, you know, like, if you're, if you're physically shooting somebody, so for example, if you're shooting somebody, somebody's wedding and you're with them for 12 to 14 hours, you know, you need to not be need to be a reasonable person, you need to be somebody that they want to be with for that amount of time. But But again, you know, coming back to social media stuff and social media interactions as well, you know, if people interact with you, and you don't bother to even say, Thanks, or, you know, how did they feel about that? How does that make them feel if they take the time to say something about your image, and you just put it out there, and you're just like, well, here's my stuff, and you can like it, you know, like, it's, it's, I feel that, you know, for me, social media is, like a global, it's like, word of mouth, but on a huge scale. So it's like, if you're trying to build those clients by word of mouth, in your city or your town, social media is that same thing, like you're building clients, potentially, but on a global scale. So if you interact with them the way that you would a person, I, that's how I look at it. So you know, I feel that if somebody messages me, unless it's, you know, just a spam thing, then I will do my utmost to respond to that. And the same with people making comments about my posts, or whatever. And even, you know, people that may say stuff that you don't want to hear, you know, they may not say the most complimentary thing, but again, I think thinking about how you deal with that, and not just like losing your shit, and just like that, and then have it, you know, like, think about how you're going to respond to that, because, you know, you this is these are potentially your clients as well. So, yeah, I may have gone off track there. I'm sorry, if I did. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:02   The thing you're really spot on now, um, you know, I mean, like, I know that as with the social media, it's true. Sometimes it feels like you're, you're talking to a robot, right? You know, some, some, some people doesn't reply, you know, and kind of go like, okay. It's like, it's like, well, thanks. I'm talking to the wall. It's literally it feels like that isn't the I know, it's the social media, but it literally feels like that, like, you know, if you're talking to somebody in a cafe, and he or she doesn't reply to you, that's literally what it feels like. But yeah, it's, it's really interesting. Because you because like, you don't see the expiration, so you don't really kind of you don't really think of that sometimes, but when when you think about it, it's literally feels like you're talking to a wall when you don't reply to someone else. Viktoria Haack  42:55   Yeah, totally. I mean, every person that puts a comment out there is a person. Yeah, like, so if you can attach the person to the comment, and respond to them in that way. You know, it would be the same as like walking down the street and someone says to you, that's a really nice coat you're wearing and you're just like, do you say nothing? When you say, well, thanks. And it's hard to you know, if you do have, you know, if you are busy on social media, it's not always easy to keep up with all of that stuff. And maybe you can't always be, you know, 100% responsive, but I think that it goes a long way to let you know, if you let people know that they have been hurt, even if you can't necessarily respond, because you're really busy. You know, like the these we're all humans out there. So I think you need to interact with people in that way. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:45   Oh, that's amazing. Definitely. You just changed the way I think about social media for sure. You know, like, like, I know, like, it's, it's always in my in my mind that you know, there's it's a person behind that that account, but when you put it that way, it's really different. Like, you know, think think of it like, like you say when you're taught when you when somebody gives you a compliment on your colour, it's yeah, it's totally like true. Like, wow, it's just I had, sorry, I just have a big aha moment. Just like wow, that's, that's amazing. Awesome. Well, thanks a lot for sharing that. Victoria. I'm just coming on onto our one hour mark here. So one question that I always ask the guests that come here is what advice like if you were to give one advice to other photographers out there, it can be anything? What would what would that advice be? Viktoria Haack  44:43   That's a tough one. I don't know. I think, I think I think probably the advice I would give is, just remember why you picked up your camera. You know, whatever you're doing. Remember about why you picked it up. So if you, you know, if it's your business and you're trying to make money out of it or whatever, just remember why you pick the camera up and come back to that at some point because we can get lost in all the different things that we're trying to achieve. But what was it that that that took us to picking up the camera? And how did we? Why did we continue with it? Why did we pick it up? Why did we shoot? Why did we keep shooting? So what what was it about it that made you want to carry on to start with, even if you may have lost that now? Probably that's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:32   that's that's a really good advice. You know, like, back in 2020. I like at the end of the 2020. I had a photography Bernau. And it was, it was something that I never thought I would ever have. Because I love photography, too, so much. But yeah, like at the end of it, I did exactly what you say. We're just like, try to remember what I love about it and stop putting expectation for for myself when I go out and shooting. And yeah, I think I think that's a really important advice, too, you know, that you just gave out there. So thanks for sharing that. Well, Victoria, it's been a pleasure, I had so much aha moments, they own that conversation. I love them all the wisdom and the advice that you shared with not only me, but also the listeners out there. And hopefully, you know, the listeners out there can relate to some of those, some of those advice and some of those stories that you gave out and make a difference in not only their in their photography, but also in their life. So yeah, thanks a lot for that. So I know you have a beautiful collection of photos. How can the listeners find or, you know, get to know you better and see more of your photos. Viktoria Haack  46:46   I've got a website. So if you want to head to my website, it's Victoria heart photography.ca. The spelling of my name is very strange and difficult. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:56   I'll put it under description. No worries at all. Viktoria Haack  47:00   I've got a website. I'm on Instagram, at Victoria Hawk, and I'm on Facebook, Victoria Hart photography as well. So yeah, come say hi, I will always do my best to say hi, back. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:12   Oh, fantastic. Oh, thanks a lot for for that. Thanks a lot for being here. And we really enjoy it. Well, I really enjoy that conversation. And I'm sure the listeners do too. There's so many things that I have learned. And I'm sure you will reach a lot of the audience in there and bring some inspiration to them. So thanks for being here. And I really appreciate your time, to the time that you spare to share all of this experience that you had. Viktoria Haack  47:43   Thank you so much, Stanley, I really appreciate you inviting me Thank you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:46   Well, weekenders there you have it is absolutely beautiful advice is there, some that I definitely, you know, some point of view that I never really have in my, in my mind or in my experience before and it's definitely something that I that will change how I approach photography and also how I approach sharing my photography. So I'm really glad that we had this conversation. Just let us know and hit that hit. Hit that like button and subscribe to the podcast if you enjoy it. Don't forget to have a look at Victoria's work. It is absolutely stunning. And as she shares in this in this podcast, he have a really wide range of photography collection and they all beautiful, so highly recommend to say hi, visit her or visit her on her Instagram and Facebook. And yeah, just like Victoria says you always try to reply to everyone. So don't hesitate to give her a nudge and say hi. Well thank you very much for being here. And I'll see you guys next week.    

Hey Wicked Hunters,  This week we take you out of the world, into the underwater. I'm so excited to chat with Tom Cannon, an underwater wildlife photographer from Western Australia. In this podcast, he shared his journey on how he got into underwater photography, his story behind his favourite shot that eventually got used by the National Geographic app and the challenges that our Marine National park is struggling with.   You can learn more about her by connecting in www.tomcannon.com.au https://www.instagram.com/tomcannonphotography www.protectwhatyoulove.com.au  https://instagram.com/protectwhatyoulove.com.au Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.   

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast! Today we have a published and award-winning writer sharing her creative journey through writing and photography. Lynn grew up in Montreal and moved to Banff, Alberta, in Canada's Rocky Mountains, in the early 1980s. She shared some of the most interesting stories from her 40 years of adventures in Canadian Rockies. Like how one person fell into a glacier crevasse and stuck there for 5 hours. You can learn more about her by connecting in https://lynnmartel.ca/  https://www.facebook.com/lynnmartelwriter  https://www.instagram.com/martellynn/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it really helps ---------------------- Transcription: Lynn Martel  0:00   Wow when I climbed Mount Victoria, oh, it was such a funky day because the clouds were right up to the edge of the mountain on on front side. So we couldn't see the big drop down the glacier and down the backside was conceal the rubble bellies. I didn't have a camera on that trip. And I still think about Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:27   a weekend this Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion on photography and how share how photography have given us hope, purpose and happiness for many of us. Now, today I have a guest who's not only a photographer, but also an award winning as well as publish writer. So she's based here in Canadian Rockies and I'm so excited to have her on board. halen. How're you doing? Lynn Martel  0:55   I'm good, Stanley. How are you doing? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:57   I'm doing perfect. It's a little bit warm here. And it's crazy. I never thought it's gonna be this warm ever in winter? Lynn Martel  1:09   Well, yeah, you've been living in the Rockies. One thing to know is that winter changes a lot. It varies a lot all across Canada, it's different everywhere. And in the Rockies, we get wild wild swings. So it can eat a lot six one day and minus 26. The next day, when that happens. Montreal, Montreal winters are totally different. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:33   Wow, that's crazy. Because like last year, I had like pretty much like, as soon as I think November hits it never like I never see water coming out of the sky. It's like Lynn Martel  1:45   oh, four. That's perfect. Big. And our cold spell came really late last year, like late February when we had minus 25 minus 30 days. That's a bit late. Usually we get them earlier, but every year is different. And it is warmer than when I first came to this part of the country. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:05   Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, it's crazy. So look, welcome in. I'm so glad to have you in here. I'm so excited to talk to you, actually. And give us a little bit of introduction, who's Lin marteau and share with the listeners. Who are you and how you kind of get in here. Lynn Martel  2:25   Well, I'm a writer, that's my first thing. But I'm also a passionate photographer. I grew up in Montreal, Montreal at that time was the biggest city in Canada. It was many New York, it was hip and happening. And fashion and music and dance clubs. That was my life. I thought that was what was important in the world was and dancing and music. Music is very important. But then as a 20 year old, my sister came up to bat to the Rockies. And I mean, if you look at a map of Canada, that's like five hours on an aeroplane. It's a long ways away. She came out here, and I came to visit and we both ended up staying. So that's almost 40 years now. So living get coming to the mountains and dance then you got to understand that's before the internet. It's before much music from MTV. Its VCRs were brand new. Nobody had a computer in their house. Cell phones. No, none of that. I remember my first answering machine. So to come and come from a happening city like Montreal, where the food, the music, it's very cosmopolitan, multicultural city. Yeah, to all of a sudden be advanced. This little town of like 8000 people in the mountains. It was a game changer for sure. A lot of ways. People were very friendly. If you're a 20 year old kid advanced, it is a big party. It's better than going to university. Because you don't have class in the morning but you went we went to work on over a lot. But it was also then total commitment. Because people now live in mountain towns and they work remotely and you know they're connected to people all over the world. For us to stay in bounce meant your whole life was in damp. You know I spoke to my parents on the phone like once a month. They probably phoned me and thankfully they retired here and my mom is 83 still hiking snowshoeing, cross country skiing. She's great. That's no longer with us. But yeah, so it was a total commitment. Your whole life your work your play your friends, your world within the small mountain town. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:43   That's That's crazy. That's amazing. I mean, it's so inspiring. Sorry to hear about your your mom. Lynn Martel  4:50   Most good mums. Good. Oh, okay, still here. She's 83 She's still good. She lives in camo she's out all the time. We lost my dad five years ago, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:58   right sorry. So that's that's where I was. I can't Okay, so that's, that's amazing to hear. And yeah, like, it's so inspiring. That is one of the most inspiring thing when I moved here to Canada, just seeing these people that are like 60 7080 years old that still going up this mountain and you know, like I'm on early on in my early 30. And I would bring my backpack and I go, like, first switch back and be like, Oh my God, how many? How many more and I just feel like, I saw these people. It's like, Okay, I better shut up. And so walking, just it's so inspiring and so inspiring. Indeed. Just seeing the commitment the love for the outdoor and the love for the mountain. It's, it's, it really opens up my world like, it's like you right, I was born in, in metropolitan country, but it's in Asia. So we try to park as close as as possible to the mall door. That's Unknown Speaker  5:54   what we do. We would go around and around to find a parking by the door. It's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:58   crazy. So yeah, it's so inspiring to hear that and I'm glad that your your mind is still like healthy enough to to be able to do that. That's Lynn Martel  6:07   great. You know, I did a 10 kilometre hike with her last summer. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:11   Oh my god. Lynn Martel  6:12   Awesome Lake. That seems it's incredible. It took her it took us about an hour and a half to get to the lake. Actually, it took two hours. But that's because I stopped to do a lot of photography. So really, it was an hour and a half of walking time. Yeah, she's steady. She's just walking poles and she. But one thing you know what you said about the shopping mall. We didn't grow up with a car. Montreal is a very transit friendly, friendly city. And it's actually a terrible place. It's where I learned to drive. And it was terrifying. But, so I grew up walking, always. And I have no patience to wait for a bus. So I blew off the high heels pretty early in my teenage life, because that was stupid. I couldn't walk anywhere in the dark things. I wore them to the dance club once in a while, but I got rid of them too, because you can't dance in them either. But walking is something that I grew up doing. And, and I walked, I would go through long long walks in Montreal. And when I go to the mountains, you know that and my mum walks like an hour and a half every day. That's one of the reasons she's so healthy at 83. She's out there walking every day. She got off she goes and if it's ICAO she put spikes on her boots, she actually has trouble with the putting the spikes on her boots. So she has two pairs of boots one pair that she keeps the spikes on. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:31   Yeah, that's very smart. Wow, that's incredible. That's incredible. Lynn Martel  7:35   Walking is and find somewhere different or new. Walking is the best way to explore a place. fast way to stay healthy. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:45   I agree. So how does this? How does this all like fit in with them with with writing and photography? You know, like, how when do you actually start writing and when you decided that this was for me, like, you know, I'm not gonna do this corporate lifestyle or whatever the you know, the rest of the world is doing. But you're taking a really courageous path in you know, in a great creative world. And we all know it's it's a tough industry to break into, especially when you just started so how did how does this passion come about? And how do you know that this was for Lynn Martel  8:23   you? I'll say I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. And I wouldn't trade it for anything. So that's pretty much when it got to dance when I was 20 years old. When you live in a small mountain town you don't have there are more options now, but there weren't a lot of job options. So of course I learned to do retail and waitressing and I worked in ski shops, Snowboard Shop through the 90s in the early 90s. Sold sportswear a lot. And I waitress. And waitressing was when I started writing, I never I've never been part of the corporate world. I've never had a good paying job. So I kind of envy people who do that for a period of time and then have a nest egg before they go to the creative thing. But I skipped that part. But yeah, I did retail in waitressing for a long time, I worked with the tourists and I learned a tonne, working with our tourists, because people save their money and from all over the world save their money to come and see the Canadian Rockies. Wow, that's humbling. And I get to live here. It's not easy. But um, and so after the writing was something I always did, I kept a journal since the age of 11 or 12. i i and the journal was just all about me all the time. And the life I was living whatever year but then after being in the mountains about 10 years, one thing that happened was outdoor magazines, powders United States, which just closed this year broke my heart powder by mountain bike magazine, I was reading these magazines and and I thought, well, I'm living this life I should be writing about this too. So I started that way. I didn't do really well with the magazine with the American magazines, I, I didn't know how to pitch to them. They weren't looking for outside stories and but I did. So it started with local local newspapers. So I started writing a column every couple of weeks and it was editor, the editor of the bath newspaper at the time. His name is Dave Rooney. I think he's still in Revelstoke now. Um, he told me never to write without getting paid. And I'll say that man, then I got, I didn't get paid a lot. But writing pays half as much now. Like, writing for an online magazine pays less than I got paid 20 years ago, or 25 years ago. At the higher levels, writing campaigns, so anyone writing for National Geographic is getting paid well. But anyways, uh, but I saw this. The thing was, my friends were ski patrollers, they were at lunch technicians. They were training to be mountain guides. Now they're all veteran veteran, senior mountain guides. And I felt that there was in our, in our local newspaper down, there was a lot of focus on the business community and on downhill skiing. But I was living at backcountry life, I was living skiing away from the ski hills and backpacking, I started mountaineering and climbing. And I, I learned there was a lot of history in this area that went with those activities. But at that time, nobody was writing about it. And then I learned, I worked part time for a heli ski company for a number of years and met a lot of the older guides, guides who started being mountain guides in the 60s and 70s. And who were part of the creation of the heli ski industry. I learned a lot from them. And and I realised there were so many stories all around me. And they weren't getting a lot of attention in those years in the 90s. Nobody, hardly anybody was writing about them. Nobody. Yeah. It's very different now, because there's so many young people writing but then there wasn't. And so I started doing it. And I got a lot of encouragement. I got a lot of work. People were Yeah, I got a lot of assignments from that mostly in the mountain community. But I got some awesome, awesome assignments. They did. And over the years 10 biographical booklets on very special, accomplished mountain people. I just learned a lot of stories. So for me, it was about stories that were happening all around me. And I didn't, I didn't feel like they were being recorded very well. And also, some of the early stories have been recorded. There were some history books. But what was happening in the 90s and the 2000s, the 80s. And yeah, like, even the 70s, there were a lot of there was a period there that I didn't feel I felt had been overlooked and not not written about enough. So to me, history is not what happened 100 years ago. Yes, it is. But it's also what happened five minutes ago. And so I started interviewing all these fascinating people around me, who were living really interesting lives. That's really Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:33   cool. Yeah, I mean, I think the reason, sorry. Lynn Martel  13:38   And I think it's because I grew up in a city. Because I understood coming from a city. And I used to go to New York as a 19 year old and run around for the day, and be back on the plane. But my dad worked for Air Canada, so I'd free plane tickets. And I would be back in Montreal by dark. Because I grew up that way. When it goes to the mountains, I knew this world was different. And special and unique. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:06   Yeah, that's cool that you like you actually share a lot of that. And, you know, like, that's why I like to slow down my travel, I travelled to a lot of countries, I think it was like 29 countries or something like that. But it's it's very few that I actually get to spend a lot of times and go into a little bit more of the culture and the lifestyle. And, you know, I spent here for almost two years now and you know, I think the history part of it, like I haven't really scratched even scratched the surface. So it's been incredible to kind of see, like, you know, every now and then people would post this like old photos from back there and share a little bit of history and just be like, Wow, that's incredible. There's just yeah, it's just like an unworldly thing, isn't it when especially I suppose back there, you know, when it's a little bit more untouched? It's, yeah, it's interesting. And now how does photography so so how do you go from writing to photography? You know how How'd you start saying, Well, I actually enjoy photography. Lynn Martel  15:04   Um, I've always had a bit of some interest in photography. In Montreal, my dad actually had a little Pentax and he would set up a dark room in the bathroom. Yeah, to black curtain and, and a couple other places we lived, he was able to do that. And then the last place, I lived with my parents when I was in Sitia, which is Quebec college. Yeah, he wasn't able to do it in that place. But anyways, it's something so there was always a bit of an exposure to it. And when I came out to the mountains I went lots of years without having a camera, because in those days, you had to buy film, and then you had processor. So when you're making minimum wage, you don't always have money for that. So I had, yeah, wow, when I climbed Mount Victoria, oh, it was such a funky day, because the clouds were right up to the edge of the mountain on on front side. So we couldn't see the big drop down the glacier. And down the backside was, you could see all the rubble bellies, I didn't have a camera on that trip. And I still think about digital changed my life. Because prior to that, computers not have not, it's heavy. And I'm small. I'm five foot three. Now I've shrunken and she used to be five, four, I think carrying a pack might be part of that. And if I was going to try and keep up with with six foot guys, you know, I had to work really hard to keep up and carry a pack. And so there were lots of trips where I didn't have a camera, but then the digital cameras came along. And in the early 2000s Really big. And I had tried little periods of time where I had a camera didn't have one had one didn't want. But anyways, with digital, all of a sudden, you could have a small talk small camera that fit on my chest strap that took decent pictures. So that was great, because since about 2006 or seven, I've had a camera with me on all my adventures. And I've gone through a big progression of cameras. Now here I am getting older and shrinking. And I'm carrying I'm using a Sony a seven, two. But I don't take it everywhere. Because sometimes it's too much. And I have a fabulous little canon that I carry. I can't remember which model is actually getting a little repair right now. Anyways, but it wasn't a cheap one. It's a really nice one, but it fits on my chest strap. So that when I can take any gear, I can take it rock on a rock climb. It can take it up anything and there's no weight so it's not a problem. Yeah. So it was a progression and the more time I spend in the mountains especially now because I'm moving a little slower my partner and I take our time a bit more than than mountains when you're young you're trying to get to the summit. It's go go go go go. And now you know all these amazing beautiful things they see in nature. I actually stop and take the picture now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:20   That's incredible. I know exactly what you mean. I'm pretty sure this LM like 160 centimetre I don't know what's that translate to two feet but man like close to me. Yeah, so like trying to keep up with this tall guy. So he's like, I have to do twice steps where every step you take and exactly, and I got like this big pack is I got my DSLR and I'm not the foetus as well because you know they live here in the Mountain I just like it like you know, every time I took like one photo and like man like they disappear already. It's a tough job for sure for sure. You know, the vertical challenge vertically challenged problems for sure. So I know exactly what you mean. And it's really changed the game isn't it like the digital cameras is everything a lot more compact and a lot more possibility. So Lynn Martel  19:14   even my Sony mirrorless like that actually. When I have my big lens I have a 24 to 105 which is fabulous lens and it's good for a lot of situations but it's quite heavy. And I don't take my tripod everywhere but I just recently got a little point lander Hilliard Super Why because that's great for if I'm getting up high, but it's small enough and light enough that I can actually bring it with me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:42   Yeah, no, that's cool. And now I think that story that you share with us in Victoria. First of all, that's incredible. You went up Mark Victoria is it's it's a it's a beautiful place there. I haven't been there myself. It's a big achievement for sure. But um, you Yeah, like, I think a lot of us can go through that sort of place as well, where we go, oh, man, I really wish I could, you know, capture and share that with everyone. So what are some of the most interesting maybe share with us one or two experience that you have that, that you are able to capture with your camera? Lynn Martel  20:22   It's the little things. I have some hammer with me, every time I go with backcountry skiing, and it's the simple, small things. And I'm still working on my skills because I see things that I wish I could do a better job of capturing something really great in that place that my skills aren't there yet, but we're gonna have only been working at it really for the last couple of years. Let me think. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:57   So what are some of the things that you love to capture maybe when you go back countries Lynn Martel  21:01   marketing up on the glaciers? Yeah. It's funny, because there's a lot of people right now going in photographing glacier cakes, which are fabulous. But I like to get up on glacier and get out there. And where you're just surrounded by this ocean of snow with some pizza distance and, and to be in that world, when you're up in that world in the winter, there's no sound if it's not windy, there's no sound. There's no trees. So there's no birds. There's nothing growing up there as you're surrounded by miles of Niles, of snow and ice. It's such an amazing environment. When I give a presentation on my book, which I'll show you guys later, on my glacier book. Yeah, I have a couple of video clips I use and if you're around the glacier in the summertime, it's water, water water. So that actually that environment in the summer is my favourite place to be at the toe of glaciers in the moraines with the rocks that have just been recently exposed that you know, were under ice for 1000s of years. And now, every year more new rocks are being being exposed the mouth sei smells, but that's a fascinating environment for me. Where the waters trickling, trickling, roaring, gushing, spilling waterfalls, the noisy environment in the summer, there's so much water going on. And wildflowers is the other summer passion. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:31   it's it's amazing to hear that you go into the glacier. It's something that I want you to do, but I never, I haven't had the chance or the skill to be able to travel into glacier yet. But it's like looking at so the other day when I was going to exploring the ice cave, I saw like four people on the glacier and just like man, that would have been so wild, like just travelling up the glacier. Lynn Martel  22:55   On glaciers, sorry, I camped in a tent on glaciers. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:59   Yeah, that would have been really well that like, you get you get like blown over like with the with the highway Lynn Martel  23:06   sometimes. One of the chapters in my stories advice book is called How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the wind. When you can, when you camp in a tent on a glacier, you you stake it down with your ice axes, your ski poles, your skis, you're tying it down. You build a fence of snow blocks, like an igloo fence around your your tent. Yeah, you do a lot of things. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:33   Yeah, cuz I was like just imagining it. Like if they were going up in and pitch a tent. And for whatever reason, if the anchor can it comes down, it comes out, man that's like a long way down. And it's a slippery slope from the looks of it. Lynn Martel  23:47   Well, it's depending on the glacier, a lot of weight, like when you get up on the Columbia Icefield it's pretty flat up there. But the wind can throw you a long distance. And I've been I've been knocked over in the wind when the wind is so strong that, that it just knocks me to my butt, even with a pack of one. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:06   So I want to talk a little bit more about your book. And your book is it's the story of Isaac in mind, right? Yeah. Yeah, story itself is Yeah. So. And in there, you cover a lot about your experiences, you know, which is what you just mentioned here. Do you want to share with us what really inspired you to write this book? And you know how? Yeah, how does it come about? Lynn Martel  24:36   Well, I've been writing about people mountain, the mountain community for more than 25 years. And over those years, I interviewed I wrote stories about a lot of artists going up on a glacier creating something from something artistic being inspired by glaciers. I've been out on glaciers with mountain guides by backcountry skiing lodges, and also with scientists, and, and I've been out in the field with scientists as they work on the different kinds of research they do on glaciers. There's a lot happening on the glaciers in Alberta and British Columbia. So that's southern Southwestern Canada. And we'll all have BC coast. It's the coast mountains is a massive glaciation glaciated area. So, over the years, I have a friend who works to the United Nation. He's in water. So he's a water expert. And he works lots of scientists to hydrologists in glaciologist. So from him, I ended up meeting a lot of scientists. But also over the years, I saw that whenever I saw books about glaciers, so often, they were looking at glaciers from the scientific perspective, but not really from the cultural one. And in our part of the world, bleachers are part of our lives, whether you know it or not, like some of the meltwater that can send the Bow River right through Banff and through Calgary and through Saskatchewan, all the way to the Hudson Bay. That's glacier water, partly. But yeah, we we have people in this part of the world who make a living on glaciers every day. You know, Pete, and mountaineers who are out on glaciers every day, scientists, artists, so I wanted to write a book that showed glaciers to be more than just these massive device on a landscape that scientists study and tell us they're melting. Glaciers are in the news a lot. But I wonder how much does anybody living in Manila, know about a glacier? So and even in Canada, growing up in Montreal, and no clue, no one's really sure was. So I thought, and because of my experience, my writing experience and all the different people I've interviewed over the years, and, and my own experiences, my own adventures. So the idea grew from there. And I took senior. So the idea I had the idea six years ago, and the book came out in October. So it took six years to make it happen. I had lots of my own interviews and articles in my files, pulled them all together, and then I had to shape it. And then I went out looking for new stories, too, because I things I'd heard about over the years. People I'd heard about, oh, I need to interview this person. I contacted I got like 20 different photographers give me some of their photos, because mine weren't good enough to tell the story. Or people had just great photos that I knew would help tell the stories. Because it's many, many stories. And I tried to tell the story of what glaciers mean to us. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:47   Share us some interesting stories, you know, give us a little bit of insight, like 510 minutes version, you know, one of the most interesting parts of it. So, you know, we can learn a little bit more. Lynn Martel  27:59   I got one. One guy, I got a phone call one day or email, probably, Robert Raymond says me and he's somebody I didn't know, mountaineering with a couple of times. And he said, I got a story for you. So years ago, he had in skiing up the Athabasca glacier onto the Columbia Icefield with a buddy they were they attend some all their mountaineering gear and they were planning to be up there for five days and and climb some summits. But on their way up to the glacier, they're skiing long. Robert was in front. All the sudden his world goes dark. He's fallen in a crevasse. Thanks, good thing, their rope together. So he falls like 40 feet into the crevasse. He's in the dark and the ice and his buddies on the surface who are trying to you know building an anchor to stop him from falling and further and he was successful in doing that. But his buddy couldn't remember how to do crevasse rescue, how to build a pulley system to get them out of there and one on one, it's really difficult to pull someone out of a glitch out of progress. So they couldn't communicate. Like he was calling up from the hole. His buddy was calling down to him. They didn't hear each other because he was so far down. And his buddy had a lead in there. He tied off the rope, build a good anchor tied off the rope and then he skied back down the glacier all the way down to the road to where there's a payphone might have had a cell phone but this was quite a was like 20 years ago. And yeah, so his buddy was able to contact Parks Canada and and get the rescue team to come in. Robert is in the glacier for five hours. Five hours, never ever go on glacier without Mungus down jacket. He put every layer on that he could he was able to put a screw you know, drill the ice screw into the wall, hung his pack from it. He was able to put all his clothes on and he had to wait in there for five hours in the dark. They came and rescued him so great. He was pretty happy about that the helicopter full and we've got some of that As rescue people in the world here, they're world class. So they get out of the fat. Because when you're skiing up the Athabasca up on the side of snowboarding, there's these cliffs, these rocks, these broken pillars of ice, and they fall off in chunks every once in a while. So it's not a place you want to hang out. The rescuers. They, they got him out, but they left his pack and his skis in the class. 12 years later, somebody contacts him. One of the tour guides that there's guides who do walking tours on the glaciers. Well, one of the guides, she found this gear laying out on the moraine. And it turned out after 12 years, his gear had melted out of the crevasse. It's an amazing story. So he went back there, it had actually, because it had been inside the glacier for 12 years, it got all mangled and crushed, and glacier was moving, melting, stretching, like doing all the things that glacier does. And it actually had pushed the gear came out half a kilometre from where it went in. And it had, so the glacier had melted back, you know, the crevasse that he fell into No, no longer exists. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:10   That's crazy. That's, that is why I don't go on on a glacier. Lynn Martel  31:17   And he took pictures to the great thing was some when he went back and he collected all his gear, you bought a garden. And he took pictures. So I've got some pictures. And visitations when I give presentations, I have some of those pictures to share. That's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:32   such an incredible story. Like, I mean, that's that's why, you know, like, if you're listening, and you're, you know, you're not trained, you shouldn't go on a glacier. And that's why I haven't been travelling in a glacier because I don't have that skill. Yeah, but that's just incredible. And look, I mean, like, as a, as a, as someone who had been living here in, in the heart of the Rockies, you know, with basically having the glacier and snow as, as part of our backyard. Right? You would have seen a lot, a lot of challenges that come with it. What what are some of those challenges? Because I know, like, for myself, like, like you say, I wasn't even aware about glacier. And actually, only a month ago, I found out that, like one of the glacier or most of the glacier here, like receipts at a rate of 50 metre per per year, which was, it's crazy. So what are some of the challenges that you see around around here that maybe you can share with the listener, the listener, and give a little bit more awareness of what's happening? Lynn Martel  32:41   Um, Glacia glaciers all over the world are melting, because our, our average temperature all over the world is racing. Whenever somebody says to you, oh, but that's happened before in Earth's history. So there's two points to remember. Yes, our glaciers have melted and returned before, but never have they melted as fast as they're melting. Now. It's insane how much they've melted in 100 years. And the second thing is that, in periods of Earth's very long, long history, when the glaciers have melted, and returned, those changes happened, before humans ever lived on earth. So we are the first gen or the first humans to live with this kind of rapid temperature change. 1.3 degrees doesn't sound a lot. But if you're a glacier, if you go from, you know, being point three degrees below zero, you stay frozen. You go to point three, you know, but one degree above zero, you stop being frozen. So in society a challenge is that in this part of the world, and in a lot of parts of God in the Himalayas in a huge way. societies and towns and infrastructure is built to expect glaciers to release water, especially late in the summer, when we're not getting much rainfall. Our river here the Bow River, in at the end of summer can be 30% of that river could be the glacier float meltwater. And we have no plan for when the glaciers aren't doing that anymore. So there's a funny little challenge. We're gonna have we have something adapting to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:35   It's crazy to see like, I mean, when I'm living here, it's crazy to see how the water of the river fluctuates between summer and winter, and you know, it's only that it's only because I was able to like experience it the full year to kind of like see and observe this and I'm sure like people who come here for a week or two that would, wouldn't even you know aware of this right so Yeah, I think it's a really important message to share with people and to, I guess it's really hard to know about it unless you live in it, isn't it? Lynn Martel  35:09   You know, it's like that everywhere. If you've never been to the west coast of BC, and walked in a rain forest of massive old growth cedar trees, it's a mind boggling experience to see that kind of forest. And I've only seen tiny blue bits of it. So they that, yeah. Travelling and having experiences. I think, though, it's a fine line, and how much travelling anyone needs to do. I grew up with as a teenager in my 20s with free plane tickets. That was awesome. Now, I have not been in an aeroplane since 2011. I don't have a lot of money. So plane tickets aren't part of my picture. But I do prefer a road trip and because then you see the landscape as you're travelling through it. And when you find it, an aeroplane from here to there, you're so disconnected from it. And granted, there are places I do hope in my lifetime to go to the Himalayas. We actually had plans to go my honey and I, we were gonna go to Nepal last May. So that trip got cancelled. I don't know when we'll be able to go. And he's got Sherpa friends. So there's a lot of meaning. For me, I would prefer to save and wait and do one larger trip rather than a small one. And in my book, in the back of my book, I talked about that, you know, I can't imagine what you're gonna see 30 years from now because you're like 30 years. 28 years younger than me. I'm 59 now moisturising works, you sunscreen. But the change that I've seen in my life, but one of the freakiest ones. There was a statistic and I put it in my book, where we have had on Earth as many as 200,000 aircraft in the sky in 124 hour period. We can't keep doing that. We can't think that that's okay. We can't think it's okay to cut down all our old growth forests, whether it's Brazil, or British Columbia, and we're guilty of that in Canada, too. Got a government in Alberta right now that wants to do coal mining on the eastern slopes, which is headwaters of so many creeks, feeding rivers that grow our grow crops in the prairies. Insane. There's so many things that we do as humans for matters of greed or convenience, or, Oh, well, that'd be somebody else's problem down the road. It's our problem now. So my book is mostly a tonne of fun. It's stories and it's people and it's exciting, and it's fun. You'll learn stuff you never imagined. But at the end, we got to think about how we treat planet Earth. So back to travelling. I think travelling less is more. And you said it. So you stayed here for two years. Like how much you learned, like how much you learned by staying in one place. I spent two months in New York travelling around New Zealand did some bike touring roads bus travelled a whole bunch of different ways in two months, and I got to learn a lot more about the country than if I had flown there for you know what takes a day and a half to get there day and a half to come home. So you got like 10 days for your vacation. I don't need to see a place that badly. I want to actually learn something about when I'm there. My last big trip was Peru in 2006. But I stayed a month. I never saw much Picchu. I stayed more of the climbing area. Lots of climbers from Spain, Basque climbers, all the Spanish speaking countries. They go and the mountains there are humongous. They're 20,000 feet 22,000 For Huascaran is the second highest mountain in North America. It's the monster of a mountain. But I stayed there for a month and lived in a hostel run by a Peruvian woman. And I got to learn something about the place by staying that long. Yeah, I lived in Maui for two months, one year. So much rather it didn't and Whistler for three months. So in here almost three months. But yeah, staying one place and living with the locals. learning something about it because if you get off a plane and go stay in some hotel and eat in restaurants, and heaven forbid, and that's funny because I work as a tour guy but as I can go but Um, yeah, hire a local learn something about a place, like one thing to go to our, our trip to Nepal will be five weeks when we do it. And we will have a local person take us for three weeks trekking in the mountains, three weeks, I want to place pop in for an hour and say I've been there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:20   Not that's very true. You know, like, I think people should kind of try to slow down, they travel and get off, get out of this mindset of ticking the bucket list because I have done that. And the thing is the experience that you get sure you get to see a lot of this different places, but the experience that you get is totally different. Like, you know, like, I spent, like I say, like two years here, man, like the amount of experience that I get from that experience from that two years is much better compared to two years of travelling to, you know, 25 different countries or whatnot, to just jump from one place to another. So, yeah, totally. Like, I think you're very true. And thanks for bringing that up. I think it's people should really try that. At least, like, like we say earlier, right? It's hard to kind of, to kind of convince you until you actually try it. But you know, just try and see how it actually changed your mindset and your, your experience in travelling. So yeah, that's that's a great advice. Lynn Martel  41:26   You know what else and that ties into photography too. Because I enjoy taking photos, you know, we go on a road trip last spring, we went on a three week road trip to BC, went to some places I've been to before favourites, and other places I haven't. But I like to go back to and spend a little longer because I'm enjoying photography so much now. Mostly in my home mountains. Because it's a world I know intimately. And I've seen so much crazy beauty over the years. And I want to grow my skills, so I can capture more of that beauty. And, and I'm going and I do that by not going to the tourist spots. Like still carrying a pack. In October I went out for two nights by myself with I have a tiny little tent that weighs two pounds. I carried my tripod, my camera, and I was there for two nights with food, the sleeping bag and I can't and God doesn't my favourite trips. I miss my honey. But I'm to slow down to wake up in the mountains. That's the backcountry is very important to me. I need to spend time where I wake up where there's no Wi Fi, no electricity, no running water. I go in the winter, usually once a winter, it's not happening this year. Sometimes we ski to Hudson do that. And then you got to carry your sleeping bag, but you don't have a tent or a stove. You save a little bit of weight, but then you're carrying glacier gear anyways. But I go to cabin sometimes in the winter. And I will say oh use a helicopter for that the helicopter flies you there leaves you there with all your food. There's like 12 of you. And then it flies away and it's gone for a week. And for a week you have no electricity. No, no running water. There's a wood burning sauna that's go in there and clean up at the end of the day. And we ski tour. We climb up hill on our skis. And we ski down make turns. And we'll do that all day. And yeah, I'm almost 60 And I'm still doing it that way. And those experiences to be away from my computer for a week. I think that's a big advice. big piece of advice I have from young people. I grew up without a cell phone without a computer. Get outside and leave those things at home. And if you have access to a national park, where you can go camp for two or three or four nights and not have any anything electronic other than your camera. But no Wi Fi. I don't Instagram from my camera, I come home and then decide what to post. Nobody needs to know where you are. Give yourself a few days out in nature. With no electronics, no motors, no machines, no vehicle, just you and your feet, maybe a pair of skis and on the season. Do it that way. No, that's good. In the world. That's advice. Sorry. Take the time. That's a gift. And in COVID so it's so sad when I hear stay home stay home, stay home. No, go for a walk. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:43   Ya know for sure. Like, especially here in the National Park. Right. We have that chancer it's and it's isolated. So, you know there's no reason why not and I think like I get the best sleep when I'm in the middle of nowhere and I don't have anything to wear about in terms of getting notification or whatnot, because there is no cell phone, and yeah, you stop worrying about life and actually like get to, to be in peace. That's a really good advice. And yeah, thanks for sharing that. All right, so we're coming to the hour mark now. And it's been interesting to hear your story about, you know, your adventure in the eyes and your adventure moving here, and how you get into photography and your view of photography, as well as writing. How for people who want to find out a little bit more about about yourself, how can they? How can they get how can they get in touch with you? Lynn Martel  45:37   Well, it's really easy. I have a website, and it's very well organised. But when Martell so it's Lynn martell.ca. Not CA is the Canadian suffix for? So Allah martel.ca. So this is my book. So he's nice. Yeah, and it's a big book, lots of pictures and sell stories, you'll learn tonnes about Western Canada, because it's a bunch of history going back 1000s of years, right up to today. Big mix. So and on my website, it's all there. Lynn martell.ca And I've got my books, speaking and photography. So check it out that way. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:21   Perfect. Well, thanks a lot for sharing that. And, you know, I've seen some of your work and like, like you say, I think one of the thing that I really like about your approach in photography, how you find the small things and focus on the small thing, you know, I mean, I saw, like some of your photos that really focus on just the ice or the soft snow, and some of them are focusing on the wall, sorry, the wildflowers and you know, instead of the whole scenery actually go into deeper and a lot of going deeper in the landscape and actually take taking a photo of the micro and show them in a grand way. So that's very inspiring. It's very cool to see that. I think I'm guilty, too, to look at the macro level. And it's definitely something that I could learn from. Lynn Martel  47:06   I think it takes time. Especially, you know, we get what, four 4 million tourists a year normally, you know, pre COVID Coming to the Canadian Rockies back to this area. And when you first come here, yeah, it's all big. We would be the same. If I was running around in or, you know, walking around the streets in New York City. At first, it's like, oh, skyscrapers. Slow down. Watch, look around you. And that's where I think getting to know one place really well. So wherever you live, whatever you have access to get to know that place. Really well. Awesome. Started. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:50   That's a great advice. And I Yeah, that's a great way to close up this podcast as well. So thank you very much for being here late now. It's been a pleasure. And it's been fun hearing a lot of these stories. So yeah, we can do this. Thank you very much for tuning in. And if you are a person who get intrigued with the ice and the snow and the glacier, or even if you're not, you know, highly recommend check out some of these work as well as her book and look at some of the stories some of the challenges that it came with, but also some of the the culture that is out of the world, I mean, coming from myself that never been here never been in a glacier never seen in a glacier before in my life. It's definitely out of the world. When you first time see it, it's, it's quite amazing. So you know, getting there. And if you want to get in touch with Lynn like, Lindsey, just go on the website. And you know, you can say hi, on, on on on her website there. Well, thank you very much for tuning in. And if you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and hit the like button. But Lynn, thank you very much for being here. And it was it was a lot of fun. A lot of it was a pleasure to have you here and thank you for sparing some of your time. Lynn Martel  49:08   Well, thank you so much for inviting me, Stanley.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Today I'd like to introduce Steve Scalone, a professional photographer and educator. He is Proud Ilford Master and AIPP Travel Photographer of the Year. In his journey, Steve's dream was to build an empire of the wedding photography business. As time progress he took a break and decided to travel for about 9 months. At the end of his travel, he found his true happiness in urban landscape photography and have been more profitable as well as happier since he made the shift.  You can learn more about him by connecting in https://www.stevescalone.com  https://smallphotoart.com https://www.projectstreet.com.au  https://www.instagram.com/scalone_photo/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation, it really helps  ------------------------- Transcription: Steve Scalone  0:00   Almost a year off to travel purely because I felt stage had no social life Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:14   weekenders Welcome back to do wicky, Han photography podcast where we share our passion for photography and how photography have given us hope, purpose and happiness. Now today, I want to welcome a photographer, an Australian photographer who have been crushing it in his categories, which is really unique categories and something that I actually haven't come across with haven't come across to until later in my photography journey. So it's quite interesting to to see that side of the photography itself. So today we have Steve Scallon. Is that did I pronounce your last name correct? Steve Scalone  0:59   did well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01   Well, welcome to the podcast. How you how you doing? Steve Scalone  1:05   Thank you. I'm doing great. Doing great. I do have a bit of a croaky voice. So hopefully your listeners can make sense of me and my Australian accent. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:14   Yeah, no worries. I look like my Australian also come on. As soon as I talk to other Australian, Steve Scalone  1:22   it comes back as well. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:25   all right, well, yeah. Welcome. Welcome to the show, and really excited to have you here in a habit chat about your journey, as well as some of the projects that you have been involved to. So I met you on 730 projects, three, and that was a while back, it was probably two years ago. Steve Scalone  1:49   I'm gonna say two years ago as well. Yeah. Well, I Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:52   came here, so definitely about two years ago. But well, before we get into that project Street, share us a little bit more about yourself and how you find this. Not only your passion in photography, but also this really niche in photography world of urban landscape. Steve Scalone  2:17   Yeah, yeah, great question. So I have been part of the photographic industry, or coming up to well over 25 years now or something ridiculous. So ever since I pretty much left school, I started working in commercial labs. Back then there was no digital or if there was it was in its infancy. So I was preparing film e6 Slide, all of that type of thing for other probes in commercial labs in Sydney. So that kind of led me on the pathway. And I always had an interest within photography, I was doing jobs and assisting as at the same time as I was doing that, as well as studying. So when I hit my 30s, I purchased a wedding studio, and delved into that for about 12 years 12 or 15. And that was great. That actually taught me absolutely everything I could, in terms of getting the shot, no matter what. So you cannot obviously postpone a wedding. Because it's raining or there's floods or, or what have you. So you just have to make do dealing with many different personalities and, and all that type of thing. So I'm very grateful I don't do weddings anymore. Even when people beg me, it's like, no, I'm sorry, I just I just don't do it. It was a great time in my life. But yeah, I've definitely moved on now. But I'm very grateful for it, because it taught me absolutely everything I needed to know about photography, and how to get around the biggest part of the problem of photography, which is problem solving. So, so did I. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:10   Sorry to interrupt you there a little bit, though. But do you decide to move on and not shoot wedding anymore? Because of the pressure pressure associated with it? Or is there a different reason why you don't do that anymore? Steve Scalone  4:24   Ah, such a great question. It was a number of different reasons. I started to close my wedding business in 2008. So it was around about the GFC was happening. Weddings took a slump in Australia didn't really affect us that much. But the confidence sort of went out of the market. And I was by that stage I was easily working or 80 hours a week just on my business in my business. As I had six staff, it was quite a very, it was a large wedding business, I will admit it was. And it was exactly what I wanted. It was like my dream studio, all of that beautiful stuff. It was great. So I'd been running it along nicely for about 10 years, but I felt like I was getting tired. I, I was photographing other people's briefs, essentially. So a bride and groom come in, I'm not necessarily photographing me to be part of that day, I'm photographing them, their personalities, which is exactly what I think a wedding photographer should do, really listening to the couple, getting the best out of them, their families, so on and so forth. So I wasn't really shooting for myself at all. And it was really affecting my passion, and my motivation for photography. So I did decide to now all of this was in Sydney, in New South Wales. So I actually decided to move down to Melbourne. So it's kind of, it's kind of like moving from it's a terrible analogy, but kinda like moving from Toronto to Montreal, in a way. So, so there was a very big kind of push towards doing that. The, the wonderful, horrible thing about it all is that I just couldn't end the business because many brides hadn't booked like 18 months in advance. So I was constantly flying up to Sydney and, and Newcastle to photograph these last wedding. So it took about two years to eventually wind up. But when I moved down to Melbourne, I then just started to completely travel. All I took a year off and just travelled the world. And really just started finding myself it was great. From then on in what I do now ever since 2009 is photograph architecture, and they're basically all my clients, so I rarely photograph people much anymore, and I kind of like it. So photograph a lot of interiors, a lot of architecture, a lot of post production in video two, now. It's it's great drone work. So that's my last 10 years or so. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:32   It's very interesting, because so, you know, like, I used to be an engineer, and I kind of found photography and have that as a passion and sort of decide to pursue that full time. But from the sun of, you know, your wedding photography days was like your nine to five for me, you know, it's still photography, but not necessarily doing the things that you want to do or things that you're passionate about. So it's actually really interesting to see that that like, you know, you're actually in photography world, but, you know, just because you're in photography, doesn't mean you're gonna be happy. Steve Scalone  8:09   Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And don't get me wrong. I wasn't bitter about it all. But I think if I was doing it, right up until this day, I would my viewpoint and the thought process on wedding days, and that type of thing would have definitely changed. So yeah, I got out at the good time. I think for myself that is before you fully burn it. Right. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:38   You say that after there you took you took some time off to find yourself and just travel. How? How does that journey? Yeah, share us a little bit more about the journey and does it really affect where you are right now in terms of what you do for in photography? Steve Scalone  9:00   Ah, such a great question. Yes, absolutely. 100%. So, being a wedding photographer, as anybody listening out there if if you do aspire to be a wedding photographer, almost all of your social life on weekends, doesn't exist with family and friends because you're out there working while everybody else is partying. Hence almost the year off I think it was about nine months I went to travel hence the almost a year off to travel purely because I felt stage had no social life. I was literally working 80 hours a week and I did love it. You know when you're nurturing your own business and seeing it grow and keeping it run. It is fun. But uh, yeah, it was a very deliberate decision. And what I did was what I mean immediately found freeing was I didn't have to shoot to anybody's brief anymore. So I could just go out, walk around the block, for example, I didn't have to travel anywhere, walk around the block and just photograph, you know, the cracks in the, in the footpath and, and things like that just looking at shapes and just going out and it's okay if I missed the sunset or, or you know what I mean that there was, there was no kind of consequence. And that's what I found completely fraying. And it was something that I didn't do like the previous 10 years or so, because I was always, like every ounce of energy, I had always went back into the business and the wedding realm. So I made a conscious decision. I've simplified my life very, very nicely now, which is great. I teach a day or two a week. And 2020 has been very interesting, because everything has been on Zoom and practical classes and all that type of thing. So that's been a wonderful challenge. I love it. But I get immense pleasure of helping others learn photography. And I also have now just started photographing myself, sorry for myself in the last 10 years, but now have attracted clients that like that look, and want to actually photograph their landscape properties, like landscape designers, interior designers, architects, and so now that's my realm. So I have found that that beautiful synergy, where the things that I actually now love to do, I can more or less do personally, and still make money out of it as well, which is great. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:55   That's amazing to hear. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm still kind of on that journey, trying to find that midpoint of where I enjoy it and have that balance. And one of the thing that I think one of the decision that I did, right, when I left, my job was that I promised myself that I will I will not do a thing for a sake of money, you know, which a lot of us do, right? Yes, we give away to that, you know, it's like, okay, it's fine. I'll just do this for a little bit. And, you know, it'll make me money and then after a while, it will, it will be okay. But it's, it never is. That's that's what I learned. So, I actually, you know, I've tried a lot of different photography, not not not wedding yet. Different photography. You know, I've tried like, high fashion portraits, real estate, commercial and stuff like that. And I never really pursued it because I feel like if I were to pursue it, it's gonna be like that nine to five feeling again, where I was just doing it for the money, right? So it's, it's been a long, like, kind of like discovery and journey. And it's cool to hear that point of view from from, from your story, because I think a lot of people out there have that same thought about, yeah, it's okay. You know, I'll just do wedding because wedding is where the money say or that's what everyone say, right? The wedding is. Just did a wedding but three years later, that's all you know how to do. Because all your portfolio is around the wedding. So yeah. How do you find that balance? What what sort of advice would you give, you know, the people who kind of started off this notion of doing it for the pay of passion, but then start selling out for the money? How do you find that balance? Especially during the you know, like where you are right now is perfect because you you kind of gone through it all and you're finally find that the paradise that that works, right? But a lot of people that started with the end when they're in the messy middle, what are they need to do? What do they need to do to find that balance? Steve Scalone  14:28   Yes, you are. There's so many great things and such a good question. Awesome, Stanley, this is brilliant. So one of the things that I wanted, I had this and very false idea in my head way back when I'm talking 2000. So 2000 2001 is when I actually started the wedding business and kind of grew it from there. So I had this false ideal in my head that I wasn't a photographer until I had this big studio, and staff, and I was making x amount of dollars per year, and so on and so forth. So that was, and it was all achievable. It was all kind of working towards that. But that is what actually motivated me to, to grow my business and kind of go at it that way. What I ended up doing was creating this massive beast that just didn't stop running. So what I mean by that is, it's kind of like when you start a motor, you're kind of getting it needs to be fed. So the and I'm talking about cashflow, and bookings, and sales and all that type of thing. So the larger I got, the harder it was to actually step away from it and move away from it or even try to slow it down. So it kind of and it was good. It did grow rapidly. My my wedding business, like over the 10 years or so. And it was great. It was absolutely everything I wished for. But when I was in it, it was like, Oh, wow, this is consuming me. And even though I had like I had three wedding photographers, two of those were just contractors. I had a full time graphic designer that was all organising all the albums, I did have a sales and admin person that would take care of a little bit of that type of thing for album sales and stuff like that. But I also learned, not law I know now. But I also found it very difficult to delegate, especially when it came to the finer retouching, because that's what people were hiring us for. It was for our particular style, the look of the images, so on and so forth. So, in hindsight, I should have outsourced that far better than I did. And then that would have stopped that kind of burning out, which I was experiencing towards the end. The beautiful thing about what I have done, and my biggest advice is to figure out what you want, and then do whatever you can to do it. It may not actually be exactly what you want, once you actually do it, if that makes sense. So I was very pleased and very satisfied that I had like a 400 square metre studio it was massive at a beautiful cyclorama. So on and so forth. That was my dream studio. Now that I had it, it was kind of like in the bag, I was satisfied from the soul. And I was ready to move on. So I'm jump jumping now to like 12 years later now. And essentially, I don't own a studio, I have very little overheads. I've got this beautiful setup office in my home. I don't need to photograph people anymore. So I don't need a kind of massive amounts of gear. I rarely, like I have all my studio gear and medium format gear. I rarely bring it out only for the odd one or two jobs. Yeah, so I've really simplified my life. And I love it. Absolutely love it. So what I ended up doing was diversifying. So I really around about that time, I've been teaching now for about 10 years. So one of the things that I started to pursue was a lot more of my time. And so I applied to teach at a college, a TAFE. And I did that only one day a week for maybe three or four years. When I moved down here. I started doing it more as well. So one to two days. And I really found that that huge satisfaction. The beauty of it is as well it was always kind of that little bit of income too. So I didn't need to have massive sales and and you know, keep this beast running like I had too many years before with the with the studio. So it all depends on what you're after. That's, that's the biggest thing. One thing that you should do is really have a very strong Don't plan and think about, if you do want this beast of a business, you do actually need very strong plans in order to feed it. Very much so. So it's okay to have like a multi story Studio, you just need to know the consequences that kind of come with that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:20   That's, that's a really good advice. It's funny because as you say it down, I just remember the phrase of, you know, be careful what you wish for. And, yeah, exactly. Like it's really appropriate for this. Steve Scalone  20:35   Exactly. And I have no regrets. I think, if I didn't do it, I would still be regretting it and still wanting it. But now that I had lived through the whole thing, it's like, you know what, I do not want a studio ever again, because I loved it. I did it. It was the perfect time in my life for it. I had a lot of energy back then. And it's like now No, it's all about simplification and, and kind of the quality of life now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:07   Yeah, it's, it's that whole transformation, right? Because we chase, we often chase that one thing, and then we will realise on the back end, that's actually, you know, what, that's not what we're actually after. So, I'm so glad that you managed to find that I think, a lot of people not only in photography world, but just in general struggle to find to be able to find that or have the courage to let go those, those big piece that you say that the more you make money, the more you need to put money in it. That is just Steve Scalone  21:41   as Oh, definitely. Absolutely. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:45   So a lot of a lot of your photo, actually quite interesting to see this connection. And I'm wondering if this is true. When I see some of your photos, they're very simplified, you know, very, very fine art very, really high quality, but really simplified. Sometimes. I mean, when I first saw some of your photos is just like, taken away, you just shoot like a corner of a building and just like, wow, like never in a million years, I would take photo like that. Like, honestly, if I'd never seen your photo, I would, I would that would never come on in my in my mind at all. Like, just like, wow, like seriously, like, a pull like a pole. Beautiful. It's like how does that happen? And is this like your your this, this simplify way of capturing the world around you? Does that go back or relate it to how you try to simplify your life as well? Steve Scalone  22:50   Oh, 100% Absolutely. So everything was very frenetic when I was doing weddings. And yet again, I was in that perfect mindset where I loved it. But as I was not loving it much anymore, and actively finding how to close it. The travel kind of really led me because I didn't end up travelling for like well over 10 years because of the wedding business. You know, I couldn't go any further away from my business than like a week, for example. So hence the really long enjoyed. Break. And one thing that really struck me was that coming back to that whole, there was no brief that I wasn't shooting for clients anymore. I was literally just going out with my camera, and it's like, I have absolutely no plans. I don't know where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go straight out of my hotel room and either turn left or turn right. Either one, it's going to be interesting. And so my early work I was thinking too much. So I was like trying to get absolutely every bit of detail in or you know, do the kind of sightseeing thing I think I went to the States basically. And spent a good couple of months there to begin with. So my first stop was San Fran, and you know, just kind of walking in and around Union Square and kind of around market and that type of thing. You're trying to grab the whole feeling of San Francisco and so on and so forth. So the when it really struck me was when I flew into Chicago, and as you know, Australia doesn't get a lot of snow. But it was it was in the dead of winter in Chicago. And to me this was new and exciting. Like I Sure, I'd locals there as like, Oh no, you know, I can't go to work for weeks on end because of snow ins and, and things like that. But for me it was a playground. So I, the beauty of what happened there was, I didn't have to think much anymore because the built huge blankets of snow minimalized every scene for me. So that's how I started to see the the kind of simplification of it all. And I ended up getting a fool like this very first time that I actually walked down. Lake Michigan, it was I can't remember exactly where it was, but it's only about 500 metres down towards maybe a pier. And within that 500 metres or so I ended up getting a full exhibition, which I ended up exhibiting a number of years later, probably about three or four years, and it was called white. And it was just probably easily 19 to 24 images, just a really clean, beautiful, white images. And then that's what really started to excite me, it's like this is completely different from the wedding's that I was doing. And that kind of led me down the road of just simplifying absolutely everything within a particular scene. So what I do now, and just to put this into words, is if I'm looking at Parkland, and with some buildings, for example, I don't see a green hedge as a whole bunch of little bushes with leaves, and twigs and branches, all I see is a rectangle that is a building block for composition. So likewise, with a pole, I don't see, you know, a timber tree trunk that had been shaped into a pole or whether it be metal or forward. All I see is a vertical line. And I use that straight line in in a composition. So I'm turning 3d complex visual elements into a really simple two dimensional image. And that's basically all I do. Wow, yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:29   How do you actually is there like, is there any, anyone that inspires you to do this kind of photo? Or is that that time in Chicago pretty much just transformed the way you look at things altogether? Steve Scalone  27:48   Yeah, it really did, there was one image. And I call it affinity. And it's basically a white image. And it's is a very small person walking through on a pathway with a couple of really tall buildings in the background. So that was the image that I guess got sold the most, and kind of won a few awards around that time, this probably would have been about 2012 2012, something like that. And that was really the defining point, that that kind of image set me on a path to really kind of continue down the realm of shooting and things like that. So the beauty of it is I was still photographing at that state level, and product photography and all that type of thing. But the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to actually incorporate architecture and interiors into my commercial work purely because it just felt like a really good synergy for the type of things that I was shooting for myself. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:07   So it's Wow, that's quite interesting. And And before that, before that point in time, is mostly what, what type of photography do you do? Like, you know, between when you start that travel until you find that, that that time in Chicago? What is it more like just like a street photography and like documentary tuber, tuber thing? Steve Scalone  29:33   Yeah, for my own. The beauty of it is I definitely made more time for myself and that's where the passion started coming back. I delve deeper into teaching. And I this is actually the one bit that I do regret, and this was for the money. But when I moved down here to Melbourne, I was actually subcontracting for other wedding photographers. So that was good. It was because I did. Because I was experienced in it, they didn't have to worry about it absolutely anything. And it's not that I'm a good wedding photographer, I just know how to make people feel comfortable in front of the camera. And I think that's even more important than the photography tag. So it's all about dealing with personalities and making them feel comfortable. That's if you want to be an amazing wedding photographer, I think that's far more important than the photography you actually take. Making people feel completely comfortable and open and trusted. So I was very good at that. And I guess I still am. Yeah, so that's, it was great. Because all I had to do was kind of meet the bride and groom. Really get along with them have a whole heap of fun, and do their actual wedding handle the images back to the studio that I was subcontracting for and then kind of forget about it, it was, it was great. So I was doing that, knowing that it was a means to an end, it was kind of just like a stepping, stepping stone. At that same time, I was gathering my own work through architects, I was doing a lot of product back then as well. Not so much now at all. Yeah, but but a lot of product photography, which was great. I could easily set up a very small kind of product table, and just go at that it was very mindless. I do love product photography. Not I do love the the kind of whole advertising aspect of it. But these were just very mindless, you know, photograph hundreds of little glass vases or whatever it might be. So you get the lighting just right. And then you just kind of go left and right for about five or six hours, just photographing every single one. I love that type of work. It's a no brainer. So yeah, I don't even know if I answered that question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:09   Okay, so basically you try a whole bunch of stuff after, after that wedding. In putting product, I'm guessing. Cool. Yeah, yeah. Steve Scalone  32:19   Yeah, absolutely. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:21   I guess. I want to talk a little bit about that project. 730 Street. That was such a fun project, something that really out of my comfort zone, I really don't know, if I wanted to take that. Because I'm more of a nature and landscape photographer. And there's more of urban and street photography. And I was I wasn't sure how I feel about that. But I know that, you know, trying new things really like, like, you find things that you love, and you don't like about new things. So that's why I was like, You know what, I'll just gonna jump on it. And I actually quite enjoy that street photography, side of, of the side, you know, street photography, genre side of it, and actually quite enjoyed a lot. And it was a really good for a good purpose as well. So do you want to share us a little bit more about what is project street 730 project? Is it projects 733 or projects? Three, seven. Steve Scalone  33:36   So we just call it project St. Now, because there was a lot of confusion about the 730. Which I'll explain. I'll explain. Yeah. Can I just say I, I do remember your image if it wasn't like a wide angle, like a super wide angle? Almost like a 360 degree. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:56   It was a fish. I Steve Scalone  33:56   had this hours of fisheye. Yes. And I'm so glad that you did that. Because I do hear a lot like about how terrified people are. And not just yourself, but everybody on the day, whether they're kind of just, you know, just starting photography or seasoned professionals. I think everyone is kind of crapping their pants a little bit because there's so much pressure and that's great, but it's fun pressure. Yeah. The way it all started was I was trying different things whilst living in Melbourne. So I was building up a good contact of other photographers and a great network was starting to become friends. And I made friends with a fashion photographer that she's amazing. She's, she's kind of fashion slash stylist. And we were talking and I mentioned to her wouldn't it be fun if we got one A model, one makeup artist and one designer. So those three didn't change. And we got eight photographers. And we gave each other 20 minutes each, we locked each other out of the room. So nobody could see what we were doing. And let's see how different the results were. And it was incredible. The, like all of us had, obviously the same model to work with the same gown, or the was more or less a kind of outfit. And it was great, absolutely great. Every single image was completely different. And I love the energy that that was producing, because everybody was really nervous. You know, they didn't know what what they were going to do yet there was pressure was like 20 minutes. Are you kidding? Only 20 minutes. So when I was having a chat to Craig, which and so that's kind of where the premise come from. And we didn't really do too much more after that, for the fashion, kind of kind of realm. I think we call that eight to one. So eight photographers one model, essentially. So Craig, Gretchen and I are the co founders of project Street. And we have done. I'm going to say probably about eight cities, I could be wrong on that. We were meant to do Brisbane in 2020. But hence the Coronavirus and the kind of lock downs that have happened. We've still got everyone booked, we're hopefully going to be starting that mid year, this year, if all goes well. And there's vaccines that are working, and so on and so forth. So essentially what we did was get together and start this particular idea where we invite it, I only more or less wanted about 15 photographers because I was thinking trying to juggle 30 is incredible. But the what ended up happening, it was all for charity. So we was a non not for profit. If anything in the beginning, we were actually putting money into it, especially things like website registration and stuff like that. But basically, the two of us come from different parts of the realm. He So Craig, which is a very successful publisher, he he and is great with fundraising, where I come from a very logistical sort of realm where I was good with systems and running printers and computers and juggling people and things like that. So I don't think I could have done it without him specially for the fundraising benefits of it all because that's where his experience came in. And Craig is also a teacher of also a kind of tertiary teacher as well. So the two of us kind of got together, it's like, yeah, this is fantastic. And so we started looking for art galleries. And this one particular art gallery that we did really want was essentially $3,000 to hire for the two weeks, and so on and so forth. So that's kind of where the 30 people sort of come along. It's like, okay, we're gonna charge $100 I think now it's 120 booth specially when we were travelling. But yeah, basically, it's essentially $100 You get to participate with this. All the printing and all the kinds of paper is donated, which is fabulous. I'm fortunate enough to be an Ilford ambassador, and kind of affiliated with Epson as well. So I kind of got them on board rather quickly, which is great. And now we're all for it. Absolutely all for it. So never had a problem with the inks or the paper. Or even that the printers to operate it in many different cities, which was fabulous. Because yeah, that logistically that could have been really tricky. And it was a couple of times. But that's why we I guess we kept it to small a two printers instead of large prints, so on and so forth, which was also a time based thing. So essentially, for those of you that don't know what project Street is, we invite 30 photographers in one particular city to meet at 7:30am in the at one given location, pretty much just to meet each other, get a large group shot, and then essentially we disperse and try and get our best photograph within maybe about three to four hours. What happens then is we will reconvene back at either a gallery or the place where we're going to be running the event. And it is later that night. And everyone's encouraged to kind of work together to edit their one image, what they ended up doing is giving their image to me. And that whole process has had gotten better now. Now, it's just like a dropbox link where you just upload and it all comes rushing to me, which is fabulous, where before it was just madly running around with USB sticks, and it just didn't work. So essentially, once we have these 30 images are, by the way, Craig and I are also part of that, then we start to print them, and we print them for charity. So there's already a whole bunch of people coming that night. And that starts at 7:30pm. So we've got this essential 12 hour gap where we need to photograph, print, hang, and then exhibit an auction every single image for the night. So once and we got pretty good at kind of getting donations from wine wineries, and you know, food and things like that. But essentially, what we did was at 730, we started auctioning off each piece. And all of it was done for charity. So normally, the charities that we invited, were either from either street homelessness, youth homelessness, even perhaps cancer research, things like that. So we would always try and get a representative to be there on the night with their own merchant facilities. So whoever kind of was the winning bid, on that night, they essentially get their image, we wrap it up for them, and then they pay the actual charity, then in there, the beauty of that is I didn't want to kind of collect the money and then handle it and do all that type of thing. So that way, once the events over, it's kind of over, which is, which is great. It didn't work that way in the beginning, but that's kind of how we we sort of worked on it throughout the years. And I think the first one we did, I could be wrong. I think it was 2017, which was in Melbourne. And yeah, we just kind of kept going on from there. So it's such a great cause. Because as you would have felt it's so terrifying yet challenging. You're scared but excited. You know, it's all of these emotions in order to get the the kind of desired result that you're after. And then when you see it finished, in that very same day, you kind of feel really great about yourself and inspired. And so that was kind of my premise for the whole thing, just complete satisfaction all around. And it's like a win win for the greater good. It just Yeah, that's great. So good Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:24   boy, yeah, it's, I mean, like the experience itself, just I don't think I've ever shot that many photos in, in that, in that like really intense style, to be honest, it's crazy. And the amount of hours that I was able to get is just crazy. It's like from architecture to like this, like street, people that doing this funny stuff. And, yes, it's really cool. And I really enjoy that actually, it really enjoy that. So yeah, thanks a lot for sharing that. And I think the one thing that I would, I would highly encourage other people to take away from this is to get out of your comfort zone, like, you know, try new things. Even though you might not like it at the end of the day shoe, you will find some sort of inspiration. And I I've been meaning to, if when I get a chance to travel around Asia again, where there's a lot of people, because right here in a month, and there's not many people at the moment. I've been wanting to kind of do a little bit more of that street photography and dwell into that a little bit. I found that quite interesting to observe just strangers doing what they doing and it's always so natural to everyone. But when you watch it and you're like, Wow, do I actually do that? It's like it's crazy. Steve Scalone  44:59   Yes, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. No, I think delving out of your comfort zone is such a healthy, healthy thing to do. Because once it's all over your comfort zone is now so much wider. Yeah. And you feel far more comfortable to jump out just that little bit more, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:18   ya know, for sure, for sure. It was That was definitely my, my introduction to street and urban photography, I don't think I've ever Steve Scalone  45:29   fabulous, and your work was amazing. So well done. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:33   I just shot a bunch of stuff and hoping this one turned out? Well, that's what you do. Actually, the hardest thing out of that challenge was picking the one that was the hardest thing like, Yes, and I share that, you know, like, you're, you come across this all the time, especially, for example, when you create exhibition or your photo book, and that was always a challenge of, you know, what's gonna make it in there, and what's not gonna make it in there. Let us share us a little bit of tips of, you know, how do you how do you find so, you know, for listeners out there, there might be a hobbyist that like, try to get a little bit more reach and send it to a newspaper, for example, or they just want to send it to this competition and see where, how far they've come and so forth. How, what sort of advice would you give them in, in actually curating the photo? That is best for for those particular theme or competition or so? Steve Scalone  46:46   Yes, ah, such a good question. You're right on the good questions today. So, you're right, I think the hardest job any photographer has, is choosing the one photo. Like, it's like, why does it have to be one? Like, why can't I supplied 12, so forth, it's like, I can't give this one up, so on and so forth. So a lot of my students really have that huge, huge dilemma as well. But I kind of make it an exercise, it's like this is going to be the hardest thing, one of the hardest things that you do. So let's kind of put it down into logistics, what I would do is number one, think about, or there's probably three things that you should think of, number one is think about carefully where you want this one particular photo to go. So if people on the day at Project Street, were asking, or which one do you like, I've got three images here. There's this one, there's that one, and there's that one, the first thing I would say is, number one, take your own emotion out of it. So that's like, stop and step back. Number two, think about the motives of what you're, you're actually supplying the image for, in Project Street's case, the images were to appear on somebody else's wall. So a beautiful street portrait of somebody pouring coffee, for example, may not be as likely to get a higher price than perhaps something more a little bit architectural or something like that. So your motive, the second one is choose your motive very carefully. However, if it was for documentary competition, then that would be the one that you would end up choosing. And then number three, which I think's the most important thing once you've made those two decisions, number three is bring your all your emotion back into it. And everybody has a couple of images where you you get excited just by looking at it. It's almost like you can't leave the photo alone, you're opening it up in Photoshop, again, you're kind of just zooming in at 800% and you just retouching it a little bit, you zoom it back out, and you're just loving yourself sick over that image. So they're the images that for some reason have really kind of connected with you. They more often than not will also reconnect strongly with somebody else. So that is also another thing to think about. But if it is like your most favourite image of your pet that you love daily, for example, or your kids or your grandkids, then it may not have that same bundled emotion to somebody else, because they're not your grandkids, so on and so forth. But yeah, so those three things, so think about who is going to see it, think about the motive of why you're supplying an image, take all of that emotion away. So those two decisions should be completely logical. And then you bring in your own emotion and go at it that way. That's kind of how I choose images for awards, so on and so forth. In my point of view, because I am actually a judge at most of the major competitions as well, I would ask myself, what would a judge say about this image. And so I completely wipe my own emotion away from it, it's not the compositions off on this, you know that the hand is in front of the face too much, or, you know, it's slightly out of focus here, and it's drawing the viewer away too much to that spot, that's not good enough. So on and so forth. So even though you took six hours to wait there in the freezing cold to get just that one image, and that's why you're so emotionally attached to it. Anybody else that if you put yourself in a situation where you're having your images judged, which is yet again, a very brave yet very strong thing I think everyone should do to increase your, your comfort zone. Think about that the the person that's judging it has no idea of the torture that you went through to get that image. So you've also got to remove that emotion away from it. So emotion removal is my biggest. Yeah, take that emotion away from it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:05   That's definitely the hardest. And like you say, like, you know, and you and you take a photo and you go through like, it's like, sometimes that photo is just, well, the way I see it anyways, photo is like a metal, you know, like you you go through this experience, and you capture it. And that's like, that's my momento that I get to preserve for the rest of my life. Yeah. And sometimes Yeah, you're right. It's very difficult to take away that. That emotion of you taking it and it's really hard not to be biassed. So yeah, really good advice. And, you know, how I decide my photo that day, I think I went from, like about 1000, or something like that to like, 500. And I was like, holy, and I was like, Okay, I want me to be like ruthless. And then after there's still about about 100. And then, so I go from Wow, or to two star to three star to four star. And then why should I go to five star they still like 25 of the Unknown Speaker  53:13   just like, you see which one you like the most is like, okay, yeah, that's like, that's it? I'm pretty. Steve Scalone  53:21   Yes. Absolutely. That's a great, yay, bringing in some really harsh kind of people. Usually it's spouses. Spouses is like that. I don't like that at all. They speak the truth, or at least my one does. Anyway. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:45   That's, that's, that's great. Advice and suggestion. So coming to our end to the podcast here, and I always ask this to all of people that I interviewed. If you were to have one thing, and that you could want advice that you could give other photographers out there now, it doesn't matter if they're beginner, advanced or intermediate. But what is the one advice that you feel most important to you? That you that you feel that it doesn't matter where they are, or it doesn't matter where they go? They should hear this one advice? What would that Steve Scalone  54:31   Ah, love it? Yeah, I've got it. It's one that took me many years to stop doing and that's to stop looking at other photographers work. So that yeah, that and I did that very early, like stopped looking at other photographers work. And the reason I do it, it may not work for everyone, but this is what I would ask everyone to try is you start looking at other influences. Like, for me, major influences are movies, music, I also play musical instruments as well. So that's a huge part of what I do. I can kind of see sound. We'll get into that, like colour and sound and stuff like that. But yeah, the biggest, what I discovered was my own work bit started becoming more unique. When I stopped looking at other people's work. Yeah, so that's my big, just try it, try it for, you need to give it a good block of time. Try it for about six months, and see where it had led you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:44   That's, that's very interesting. Because in my journey, you know, like early on on my stage, that's all I did. And that's where I realised if I need to make a change, because all my photos become an Instagram photo that everybody else takes just better. Yeah. And it has become a really a hard balance, I suppose. Finding that because other people photo can work as inspiration. But at the same time, it can give you this really close mindedness or what you should get. So very sure, Brian, you bring that up? Cool. Yeah. So thanks a lot for all that advice. And you want to share a little bit because you didn't mention there about, you know, seeing sound and colour. So you want to like finish that point of people that? Steve Scalone  56:46   I know. Yeah. So I had been, I'm a bass player, and have been, since by early early teens. I'm terrible at it now. But I used to be quite good, because I don't practice any. But one of my influences has never really been photographers anyway. Of course, there's the greats that everybody loves. But essentially, I hear music, and can kind of associate sour colour. The only way I can really describe it is happy equals yellow, sad is blue, so on and so forth. So it is kind of a typical colour theory that I think we all know. But yeah, when I can kind of see it in real time when listening to music. And that kind of helps me put together a lot of colour sequences and so on and so forth. So yeah, that's, that's as far as I'm getting into that, because I don't really know how to explain it properly yet. So without getting myself into too much trouble. Yeah. But try it. It's right. It's I kind of mixed those senses up. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:09   That's actually very true. I mean, you know, even when you just said, I feel like, you know, when you when you listen to, to a music, you there is there is a theme in mind of what that should be. what that should look like, as a picture. So that's quite Yeah, I might actually try that. That's very interesting. Yeah, it's, Steve Scalone  58:32   it's almost like meditating. Uh huh. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:37   cool. Well, thank you very much for all of your wisdom and your, your advices as well as sharing your experience on, you know, the struggles and the successes and where you end up, you know, at the end of it, so that was great to hear all that and I'm sure the listeners would be ecstatic to know a little bit more about you and some more, some more of some more of your work or on the left. Where is the best how can they best find you? Steve Scalone  59:13   Yes, certainly. I'm so I'm, I'm trying to get better at social media. I think I don't think I've posted on Instagram for months. So my website is Steve ascalon.com. I also have a an online store, which is called small art photo.com. And then there's Project st.com.au. So when you do that, that will actually show you everything about every little city that we have gone to so far. Your works tucked away in there somewhere which is great. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:56   Where's your next project stream? Steve Scalone  59:59   Yes. Well, it's it wasn't meant to be up in Brisbane in April of 2020. So we're hoping to get there around about the the June 2021. So everybody's more or less locked in. We're just waiting for, for things to settle down a little bit with a pandemic, before we kind of bring large groups of people together and things like that. Say, Yes, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:23   one for a year. Is that Is that what you're doing? Steve Scalone  1:00:27   We usually aim to yes, we're hoping to get over to the States. Yet again, I think that will be well into 2022. We did have plans to actually do a web API, Project St. Which would have been amazing. So that is still on the cards. We just have to kind of wait till the world gets back to normal just a little bit. But yeah, we've done New Zealand. And we were hoping to do New Zealand again, once per year as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:01   Awesome. Well, yeah. Thanks for being here. And that was great. Yeah, so we can't thank you very much for tuning in. Thank you very much. Thanks to Steve for sharing all that advices, as well as insight on his journey. And it is quite interesting to hear a lot of that story. And also, there's a lot of takeaway talk in there. So if you listen to this, so feel free to drop us a line and let us know, you know, if you find this helpful, you know, if you find this to be inspirational, or you know if you just find it to be educational altogether. Now. Yeah. If you tuning in on the podcast, I'll see you next week. But if you're in in YouTube, don't forget to subscribe so that you get notified the next time I put a video out. And, Steve, thank you very much for being here again, to spare some of your time for being here and sharing your wisdom. That was amazing. Steve Scalone  1:02:04   Thanks so much, Stanley. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:06   Thank you. All right. Well, thank you very much and until next time,  

Hey Wicked Hunters, This week we chat with Felix about his journey to get started in photography. How he was able to find inspiration from landscape photography and his big dream to pursue his passion for photography.  You can learn more about him by connecting in www.felixgerz.com www.felixgerzphotography.com www.instagram.com/exploreincreation Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ---------------- Transcription: Felix Gerz  0:00   After landscape photography, I feel inspired. You know, like, I feel absolutely I feel thrilled. I feel like recharge being out there in nature is what I'd want to do anyways Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:16   so again, this welcome back to the weekend photography podcast where we share our passion as a photographer, and how photography gives us hope, purpose, and happiness. Now, welcome back. And today we have Felix from Germany, who's currently in Canada, and he's a landscape photographer who work with brands all over the world. So hey, Felix, how you doing? Very good, Felix Gerz  0:41   man. How you doing? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:42   Doing well, doing well? Glad to see you again. It's been a while. Totally. Yeah. So what you've been up to what you've been up to lately? Felix Gerz  0:53   Oh, man, I've been living in a beautiful town of Revelstoke enjoying the small mountain community town and getting a lot of just scattering recently. Yeah, that's basically most of my life right now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04   Man, every time I see your photo, you really make me jealous. It's, it's, yeah, I mean, it's so beautiful. And I Yeah, wish I have more time to do a little bit more of that this year. But yeah, I got a little bit. My priorities shifted a little bit this year. So um, you are from Germany. And you came here, I guess. Give us a little bit of story, a little bit of background story about who you are, and why you choose photography. Felix Gerz  1:38   Totally, totally. So originally, I was born and raised in Germany, other two for 18 years. But I quickly realised that Germany is not the place for me, like I quickly realised the German culture, the Western culture is not 100% where I feel at home, I feel a lot of pressure growing up. And I felt like I was pushed into like a little drawer. And yeah, I had to kind of follow up everyone else's pathway in life, I guess, like to start really deep here. Which is like, yeah, studying, and then get a job, get an apartment, get the car and blah, blah, blah, you kind of kind of know what I mean, I guess. And this totally did not suit my personality. So that's why as soon as I could when I was 18, I booked a flight. And when we fly back then it was to New Zealand and I, yeah, I was living there for a while. I just tried to rediscover who I am, who I was. And yes, it's now been three and a half years since I've since I left Germany. And I ended up in Canada. To your question, why photography? That's a very big question. I guess it all started actually, when I was really I think I was 13 years old. And we had to do this like really random biology observation project. We just had to photograph trees and the change of seasons in it. And yeah, back then I picked up my good old 450 D of my like, my dad's camera. Good old Canon old DSLR. And yeah, it ended up it started off with me photographing trees for the biology project, but it ended up with me being in the forest for Thai days, just shooting deer mushrooms and stuff. And then from then on, it just developed you know, I got to know how a camera works. I went out of the auto mode. And yeah, I got my own camera when I was 15 then and good old T three I who didn't have that in the back then. Yeah, and then just grew from there, man. Yeah, and I shot lots of weddings when I grew up grew up, when I grew up, and they kind of tried to find my style more and more and specialise in specific niches. And then at some point, when I left Germany, I combined it with my travelling so wherever I travelled, I tried to reestablish the business and work with tourism brands. And yeah, as you said, already, the landscape photography niche. Cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:59   Awesome. You just mentioned that you shot weddings as well. That's, that's a bit usually, I mean, you know, from most of landscape photographers, and as well as myself. Usually we don't shoot weddings because and we should we choose like landscape. It's like the two very extreme side of it, right? One of them is like with so many people are in pressure and one of them is like, do a one and it's no one there's like, chill. So like, how does that feel like, you know, merging between the two like going from one to another? Felix Gerz  4:33   That is a very good question, actually. Because there is tension between landscape and commercial photographers and wedding photographers, for sure. And I had a lot about discussion it was about that. But I think it's actually not it's actually really, really interesting to cop combined those two together. Let's say to get the scenic landscape photography way you look at the weather, you look at the sun, you look at landscapes, and just combine it with weddings, for example, getting in stead of having having different nature foregrounds having the couple as a foreground in the scenery. And I think that's absolutely amazing, especially if you have people that are totally in for that and happy to wake up at 4am Just to hike a freaking mountain in their wedding dress, you know. And I think that is really cool. And I love combining those things. But yeah, you are right, like landscape photography is a very well your day in nature, you're soaking it all in their silence, usually. And wedding photography is stressful wedding photography, especially on the wedding day has to do with lots of responsibility. Lots of people, you have to communicate with everyone. And yeah, but I have a passion for both. And I like to combine it and I think that's a really cool niche as well. Yeah, that's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:45   that's really cool to hear. I mean, I never, I always say I don't want to do it. But I guess I shouldn't give it a try. Because I never know, um, I actually like it. But let's, let's not go into that. With landscape because, yeah, anyway, so I guess like with with the thing that with wedding photography, the thing that really stressed me is always the pressure. And it's okay, I feel like if you find like someone who actually enjoy, who actually let you be the creative side, and actually along with your creativity, but some people are very, you know, they're really close minded so that they want a certain type of shot. So if you miss that certain type of shot, they become unhappy. And that's, that's what I guess that's what I really scared about. Have you come across that sort of people? Felix Gerz  6:37   I say generally speaking, the couples I shoot are very young. And they stayed they they hire me because they like, what they identify with the style with that with my shooting style. So right, right off the bat, there's a lot of trust, usually where they're saying, okay, you know, what, we know your work, we trust you in there, you know, better than we do. And that's ideal. That's what we want to hear as photographers, right? Like people are having trust, and we can totally unfold our creativity. But yeah, and sometimes there, there are people that are saying, okay, hey, you know what, I had one person that sent me like, an entire Pinterest list of photos where they're like, Okay, I want this, I want this, and I want this, and it's totally fine. I mean, it's a once in a lifetime day, hopefully, if everything goes right. And that's totally fair. And I like to respect that and take Yeah, and make these put these expectations into reality as well. And that's totally fine. And then there are just a couple of situations where you, yeah, we were, you're just really focused on that one shot, but then I try to always guide people into a non stage uncurbed, unperfect. Atmosphere, what can they can repeat themselves. And I think that's what is really special about wedding photography, because you are a stranger for them. I as someone who travels all around the world who's not even speaking their language as my first language, you know, and I have just a very, very minimal of time to gain that confidence and to make them really comfort comfortable, that I can capture raw and emotion, raw emotions and unstaged photos. And I think building that bridge between Okay, I have no idea who you are, and you have no idea who no idea who I am. And hair, you totally trust me and everything I do. And you can totally be yourself in a very, very short amount of time. I think that is a really, really cool aspect in wedding photography. That is not happening in any other type of photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:30   Yeah, that's, that's awesome. It's definitely really difficult. One of the most difficult thing is to gain, you know, like, I mean, you kind of see that on a little bit on portrait as well as like fashion, but you don't have that much of you know, different like, John, because, you know, with the wedding, you go from nothing to like, everything, right? So, I actually like came across these clients when I was doing portrait wear. And it was like a nightmare, because she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's good, it's good. You do whatever you want and took a bunch of photos, send it to her and it's like, it's just not professional quality, like, it's just not worth my money. And I was just like, Okay. And yeah, it's just like, I don't know, like, I mean, I felt like he was just wanting her money back. But you know, just have to move on sometimes and cut your losses. But I guess what, I know that you identify yourself as a landscape and commercial photographer and reason why I want to ask you a lot of this wedding question is I want to bring a contrast and then I want to see how you feel about this in comparison to landscape. So now, now that we've talked about that, let's talk about the landscape and how are they contrast with each other like what what are the different feelings that you get or the different shifts or feelings that you get from from wedding that is, you know, Depending on people opinion and very, a lot of pressure to landscape where it's like, man, like go for your life, do what you want, you know, the nature will never pay anything back. Felix Gerz  10:12   Totally, I think, I think the biggest difference between it and I think that's a question is that wedding photography drains me. And nature photography. If you consider the shooting part on set in nature and the type of photography I do that this really fills me up, if that makes sense recharges me. Because I'm an introvert. I'm when I'm around people. Yeah, I'm definitely getting drained and when I'm on my own or in nature and recharging, so I feel like, Yeah, I know, wedding day after wedding day, I'm actually pooped. I'm like, I'm just going to stretch a bed. I'm backing up the footage. I'm done for the day, after landscape photography, African inspired, you know, like, I feel absolutely, I feel thrilled. I feel like recharge being out there in nature is what I'd want to do anyways, and with my free time, you know, ski touring best example for that you just out there. So only you, your buddy. And then like just just nature everywhere, you know, and you're in the middle of nowhere. So ideally didn't know people around. So it's yeah, as you said, it's the biggest contrast that you can get. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:16   Yeah, that's, that's, that's actually true. I've never actually think of it that way. But it's very true. You know, when I was working in Lake Louise as a portrait photographer, it was very, it was very draining. Like, it's kind of nice to be able to, like, you know, like, talk to people and socialise a little bit in your photo shoot, but after a while, it just really get drained. You're right, like, I'm not exactly sure why there. But yeah, wow, very interesting. And so, you mentioned that you work with brands as well and do a lot of commercial and how is that fit in with everything else? Felix Gerz  11:55   Yeah, so it's basically product because of my lifestyle, right? Like, wherever I go, right now. I see myself as an outdoorsy person. So wherever I travel is usually it's usually mountains, it's usually an outdoor outdoorsy area. And there's always tourism wherever I go. And I saw myself finding potential in the tourism area, because that's just where it was anyways. So that's right off the bat, how does that fit in everything else? Well, how did it work? I approached a lot of brands, I have different pitch boards where I can be like, okay, hey, look, I've been doing that for a couple of years straight. Now. I have the references. This is this is what I do. This is my style. And then I basically prove, yeah, I approached brands basically on the spot, and sometimes in advance, but usually it's really spontaneous as well. Yeah. And that's been working pretty well, actually. And you know, it's with everything you gain experience. In the beginning of it all, if I saw the email sent out in the beginning of like, four years ago or something, I would probably get my favourite headshot, if I saw that again, you know, but the more you do it, the more you get a feel for the industry, the more you chat with people that are like that, I might like mine, or the similar similar niche, the more you narrow down your portfolio to certain niches, or the more you just know how to how exactly, you can approach brands or tourism boards accurately. And it's just a development process with everything, you know. Yeah. So to answer your question really quickly, I think it's just how it just fit my lifestyle. And it just fit what I feel like I'm talented in. And that's why I saw potential and then that's why I kept following it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:42   Cool. Yeah. Like Commercial is very interesting, because it's coming. I guess, depending on the type of people that you work with, or the company that you work with commercial can really aligned with either the crazy side of things of wedding and also could align with the landscape side of things of, sorry, the chill side of things off landscape, isn't it? Felix Gerz  14:06   Totally. It's very versatile. That's what I love about it as well. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:10   Yeah. So you get a lot of like, different changes is very dynamic. Not boring. Is that Is that what you're saying? Felix Gerz  14:16   Yeah, totally, totally. Like, you know, and I love the entire process of it. Like I obviously like, love going up with with with people that are on the team and just shoot the actual content, but I also like to go back and see okay, this is the situation right now. For example, now we have the pandemic and everyone is kind of itching to get out there's a new consciousness for like, the outdoors everywhere. And I feel like that is so has so much potential for story and you know, going from okay, what's the situation right now, when a pandemic, we want to promote this outdoor brand, how can we put things together? And yeah, create a great campaign or product that reflects that I think that process in advance is also really really cool. Um, Um, yeah. So it is versatile. Yeah, it is not really just heading out there, like 1010 years ago, like, putting your tripod down putting your gradient filter down and just shooting one photo. That's it, and then you try to promote it. No, it's more it's the entire process that every like. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:15   Awesome. So you you came to Canada about a year ago? Give or take? Yeah. 50 month Yeah. 18 months. Yeah. So you say that you share with us a little bit story of how you your story in in back at home when you were doing your project and then you as soon as you kind of finished with that you took off to New Zealand and now you're here in Canada. So tell us a little bit story about that about your adventure and how photography cannot have fit in and, you know, help you document a lot of those adventures within your travel. Felix Gerz  15:58   Very good question. Photography was before was there before I travelled. So it was always with me when I travelled. And yeah, I picked up on the reason why I left Germany because of the let's call it social pressure, let's call it, let's call it that I just didn't know what's out there. I just knew what I was used to. And I saw on Instagram on the page on YouTube and stuff, all these people being outdoors, and I was never really in the mountain. So I was like, I think I'm missing out. So that was one reason why I was like, Alright, I need to get out of here. And, yeah, then I went to New Zealand. And you know, I had a couple of Buck like dreams on my bucket list. I want to live in a car. I wanted to climb five peaks in the South Island, I wanted to go back then it was like things like bungee jumping, you know, I had a lot of things in my on my bucket list. I was like, Okay, I was never able to do it, I really want to do it. And then I planned backpacking trips around it, I was living in a surf town and how to surf and things like that. And the role that photography played in that was definitely just that I was able, and that was actually a major reason why I was able to grow in my ability as well, just because I took the camera along, wherever I was, and try to document how I felt and how what Yeah, on like, document the adventure itself, right, and the people that were involved. So what that meant was, for example, I I had it yeah, let me let me tell you very quickly about like something really, we really, you know, like I, I was back then I was only a backpacker, you know, I was only having a couple of bucks and spent that all on a car. And then at some point, the car broke down. I didn't have any money anymore. I wanted to have a job, I really tried to get it. And in the beginning, I was obviously trying to work with tourism, tourism brands, that wasn't a very, very beginning in New Zealand now. And in the beginning, it didn't, it didn't work. I was just not experienced enough. I didn't have the portfolio yet. And I was just really last so I didn't work. I tried to work in a for retail shops after that, and like stores and stuff. You know, I kind of went down all the time because things didn't work out. And it ended up me going through malls and through anything and just actually at some point just getting a job. It didn't really matter anymore because I was just broke. And yeah, and at some point, you know, I even got sick. My harddrive broke. That was like I still had the head of backup. But that was back in Germany. So I got really nervous here. It's like the nightmare of every photographer if like, your main hard drive is not working anymore. So I was crushed, you know, and it was like, oh, what should I do? And then you know, at some point I got a job as a farmer like what I was never I can't believe I'm telling you this right now but like you know, it's like something never considered I never really enjoyed. And then after that it was a horrible time I worked 16 hour days and I got treated like yeah, not like a nice person. It was not a really friendly environment. After that I worked with as a dishwasher you know it like it was jobs that were totally not relating to what I'm doing right now. But it was just the situation that travel situation that put me into the circumstances that I did things like that, but I'm telling you, you know, after that things shifted and what did I do and during these times I took my camera along I documented you know was a format my GoPro my head and and filmed like how I chased chased the cars into the colour chips the things that would hold that I brushed the crap out of the shed you know like things like that and then afterwards like right now I'm in a position okay, it's been a long time but have all this footage and back then I was already taking these stories that were already like always like it was not these dream stories of like, oh yeah, I travel I have the best time but it will also stories that way I was really like sad and really like drained you know and I took these stories and publish them. And beginning was only my channels you know on social media and stuff and it really like changed people and then I use my camera gadget to I visualise what I was feeling and to redraw people in my circumstances. And I think that's where really like my, my passion for storytelling began, you know, was really just telling my story. And just making sure that there's more reality on Instagram as well. Like, that's a really big topic for me that, you know, like, we just share 1% That's not really real, or real life, and people just assume it is. And I'm having a huge problem with that. So I really want to be more way more transparent, and that I want to be more real, because that's not what life is. And I think the camera just helps me to tell to, to, to build that bridge, you know, to, to really tell that story of it and just make sure, yeah, there's more reality online. And yeah, from then on. In New Zealand, I learned so much like tele told the stories, and it just continued after. After that, when I went through Asia, I was in Nepal tracking. And that's why that was the second time I was working with tourism brands, you know. And back then it was a clothing company in New Zealand. And they send us up there in the Himalayas. That was really cool. And from then on, we went to Java and Indonesia, and had a great time there with the tourism board there. And, you know, I think the time in New Zealand wasn't amazing. And stuff was really leading up to that I learned so many things, I learned to appreciate these things and like really, how to really work hard so that the things I experienced in New Zealand, were not happening anymore. And the camera along the way, it was always a tool for me to bring to bring out to process it for myself, but also to prove to include other people and tell my story along the way. And yeah, that went over to dinner afterwards. I went to Norway, same thing worked with tourism, Norway out there. And then yeah, back in, I was in Portugal, same thing. And now I'm in Canada, and Canada has been a little different. But um, that's been that's been the last three years in a very, very, very short amount of time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:55   Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? I met It's so crazy, because we have really sort of a similar story. In terms of like timing, like, I started all this journey about three years ago as well. So and, I mean, I started travelling way before I started photography, probably not long before that, probably about a year before that, where I took it really seriously. But yeah, I started to travel full time. And I left my nine to five about three years ago. So it was so crazy to hear all this story. And it's, it's exactly the same thing. Like I had the same feeling when I right after I left that lifestyle, I feel like I finally live again, like I finally, like, living like you know, the life that I want. And honestly, like when I think back the past three years is more memorable than the past 30 years of my life. So it's been crazy to kind of see that it's insane. And that's one hour later, I love travelling, isn't it? Like you just get to see. I mean, if you didn't travel, you probably wouldn't be able to, you know, develop your skill that quickly because you wouldn't be able to see and face all that different challenges and adversity, isn't it? Felix Gerz  23:15   And I think if I didn't travel, I would be a bank or broker right now in in Germany, that would be it would have been the worst thing that could have happened. So I'm pretty happy that. Yeah, you know, and the, you know, encounters like, like the one we had together, you know, that just really encourage you because you know that people are in the same boat, you know, and that are that you're not alone with what you what you how you feel. And maybe I can just throw in a little story of a person I met on a on a grid walk in New Zealand. I was Thomas, he was 40 years old. And he's been working for 20 years and a job back in, in Eastern Europe. And I met him on the trail. And he told me his story. And it was really inspiring, because it hasn't had a big impact on my life. Because he said, Yeah, he worked 20 years for a development company. You know, he had what people in our culture just promise us, which is reputation, money, fame, let's even put girls in there or whatever, you know, like, the car, and he had something he just broke down. He almost had a car accident, he just crashed down and he was like, hey, I need to change something like that's not what I want to do, you know, and hit this revealing moment where he just had to sell everything, go to New Zealand, and he was a cherry picker. And it was the happiest person he has ever been. You know, and it's like, I can totally relate. You know, it's not about the things you have for the job you do. It's like following your passion heart in that case, you know, and that's just what you felt when I assume when you started three years ago, and you just went out and you felt so like, you know, and I think that's just so inspiring. But I said, I don't want to be 35 or 40 to realise that so like I wanted to just start a little earlier. Yeah, but yeah, encounters like that man just really inspired me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:00   Yeah, you're you're really lucky to have kind of realise this very early on. I definitely, you know, if, if I were to go back, the one thing that I would change is that like, you know, I mean, I didn't really regret anything that I've gone through because, you know, I'm in a position now where I, I a little bit more secured. And you know, people like you because I have, you know, the university and stuff like that, which actually, I think is a bad thing, because it can discourage me, sometimes I always go, you know, if things go wrong, I always have this, it's really bad thing. And I only, it's only just last year where I actually give up that option. I was like, I would never go back to that lifestyle period. You know, and before, I used to always say that, but never really kind of mean it always at the back of my mind. It's like that. Felix Gerz  25:54   It's really interesting. That can I can interrupt you for a second. I had a lot of I had a lot of I had a lot of conversations about there were lots of filmmakers, you know, because let's be honest, especially during COVID times, like things are uncertain. And we as creative sometimes. Well, yeah, we things are not, let's be honest, like 2020 As a creative, opportune job opportunity year wasn't like incredible for us. I had the best year but like, not out of this perspective. So having a backup, like you did, is something that would really reassure me a little bit, just give gives me a good feeling in my stomach. I think like, that's what I would expect from it, you know, because, oh, if everything fails, if I can reestablish my business, your things just go down, I still have this as a backup Do you feel that gives you any insurance? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:39   So I do, and I don't, I. But a couple of months ago, actually, my old boss contacted me because he thought I was back in person offered me a job and a promotion from where I was. But I thought about it, and I turned it down straightaway. And here's, here's the good and the bad thing. The good thing is that people say always say that you always have a backup. And for my case, it's a really, really comfortable backup, right? An engineer, like I could literally work anywhere as an engineer, really comfortable backup. And I've also worked like in business improvement and business side of things. I've been supervisor as well. So I have a wide array of skill that I could fall back to. Now, the bad thing about this is that sometimes when you don't, sometimes when you have something to fall back to you don't go all in and for that reason, you know, you get lazy, you get complacent. And a good example is I guess when, like so, the reason why I left my job is that when I started photography, I feel like I enjoying it. And I mean, before even that, probably three years into the I know that I want to build a lapstone laptop style lifestyle. But it never happened because it's too much comfort. Like, I don't have the push to go there. You know, like, it's like, oh, yeah, I could wait till tomorrow, you know, I don't need this right now. It's like, totally, there's always something. And I the reason why I decided to leave my job was that, I know that I don't want that lifestyle. I I've known for a while, but there's just so much doubt in myself, I know that there is something better out there. And I know that if I stay with my nine to five of never, I'll never gonna get there, it's always gonna there's always going to be an excuse. So actually cutting cutting your your safety net is the best thing to get there. And it is really scary. But the one thing that I always come back to is going back to what you're saying with the working farm. When I was after my trip in Indonesia and Australia when I first came here, I worked back in a restaurant where I get $12.50 per hour. Going back from from engineering job is like, you know, really good hourly rate to like to another 50 And now Right? Felix Gerz  29:29   Like, it's, it's even worse. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:32   By the end of the day, I got like 60 bucks. I was like yeah, like it's, it's, it's more, I think it's that that lesson just taught me that. You know, you always have a safety net, like you know, like in this especially for our our world like you know, like for Australia and Canadian and all that really developed country like worst case scenario, just kind of a quirk And the restaurants like, it's like, I could literally live off that if I just worked my ass off there and built, you know, on the site. So, yeah, it's a bad it's a good and a bad thing actually. Yeah, quite interestingly. So. And also when you're on like yourself you have more hunger you have you have more energy and you have you have less, less desire for comfort, because you haven't experienced yet as much as, Felix Gerz  30:26   as I do. I totally, totally. Yeah, it's true. It's true. We get we get spoiled, you know, especially in these Western countries, the worst, the worst thing that can happen, you know, it's, it's something even acceptable still. So yeah, I'm with you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:41   It's really interesting, though, like, I really thought, I mean, I was born in Indonesia, and I was raised up in, in that culture, where, I mean, my parents was actually really cool. They have been supported me. You know, even when I was most Asian parents would say it's like, all you either have to do the three things, which is Doctor engineer, and yeah, and accountant type of thing, which I, and my parents actually had been really supportive and just like, do what you want to do. I, I had at one point, I wanted to do like, social studies and become a politician, which I realised how much I hate and so glad, didn't take that wanted to do. I'm so surprised that, you know, for a Western culture, like Germany, it's like that as well. Felix Gerz  31:37   Totally, totally debt there is there's a lot of pressure going on. Like, I mean, that's just my opinion, I'm pretty sure that this is controversial. And I'm definitely someone who doesn't really fit into the pattern. That's what I am very, I feel provoked, provoked for like to that but um, I agree. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure pressure for achieving things for building up a reputation. And there's a lot of competition thinking, No, I think in Canada, especially where we live right now. It's more like, okay, let's work together. Let's, you know, like, make your passion big, and it's okay. Even if it sounds weird, and it's the same in New Zealand. But I feel like in Germany, it's like, okay, if it's not, if it's not, sort of an official way of doing things, if it's not something that people did in the past, and it's proven that it works. You are your weirdo, you're a little bit different. And, yeah, no, I really feel this way. And I agree, I think that's not where I fit in. And I'm pretty glad your parents are not like that. For you. I'm pretty awesome. Like, I think it's pretty awesome that they support you the way you want to build your future, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:45   well, they had a lot of doubts, and they were really worried. But it goes That's Felix Gerz  32:48   definitely Yeah, I agree. Same of mine. But, you know, like, we are spoiled, like, I don't know where abouts from Indonesia you from? It sounds like you're not from a very poor background. But um, I've been in Java, for example, as I mentioned earlier, and it's been that's what that was a poorest country after a poll I've ever been to and you know, people there I met people that was actually the project I was most proud of, of my life, I documented a group of a self reminding worker working in a volcano in Java, this mountain in Mount Egypt. Exactly. And I think that was one of the most inspiring things I've ever that changed my life the most because yeah, just really quickly to carry up to 110 kilos on their shoulders on a bamboo basket. Before they after they dismantled it with them next to like 120 degrees solemn sour crater, like inside a crater and then it just balance it out and just get it down to valley and, you know, 700 metres on bare feet. And, you know, they have no insurance, no nothing, and they have no choice. You know, they were, I talk to the guys and they have no choice because they've been doing it for generations, and they're not having the money to leave the country. The policy is corrupt. And yeah, it's really sad, but that's just reality. They're, you know, and yeah, telling that story and realising how, and come back to that what we said earlier, you know, how spoiled we are no restaurant cultures now. And, you know, even the worst case, let's say the worst case would be that working for a restaurant or something like that would be like an absolute luxury case for them something, something they could never even dream of. So and things like that, when you realise them, they humble you down and they bring you back back to the ground, you know, and I think I would actually encourage everyone to have experiences like that where you just really reset your mind and just see okay, hey, the Terex jacket I want to buy tomorrow. It's not like it's absolutely a luxury item. You know, it's something people don't even think of down there and yeah, do you know an hour an hour worth of was obsessed salary like in our daily daily wage for us, it's like a monthly wage for them. So it brings you back to the grind On for sure. And, you know, that's you appreciate where we are. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:03   Well, that's, that's the interesting thing is like, when I grew up, I mean, like, we, I wouldn't say we were poor, but we're like, okay, and my parents are working really hard to stay afloat, right. And so when I got my engineering job, it was like, like a dream come true, I finally have the money to you know, spend or get what I wanted. And, and that's why it was really hard to leave that behind. Because I was like, wow, I really want to go back to like, being broke. But, yeah, that's, that's, it's been an interesting journey so far. So one of one thing that I really like, hearing from your story, or your, the way you put photography, you always say feeling like, you know how, like the emotion behind and I feel like not many people in photography world talking about that. They're more fixated about how good they look, instead of the emotion that that photo really evoke. So I really love how how you bring that up. Tell us a little bit more about your, your take on how photography and emotion kind of interconnected and how it helps you to capture the photo that you're capturing, right now? Felix Gerz  36:32   Um, yeah, sure. I think nowadays, it's really, it's really easy to take a photo without putting any thought and emotion into it. I think you know, you like you live in Lake Louise, you see that every day, people just going through, like, at like, a certain amount of time. And just like take that one photo. I think that's the most, like, emotional. So thing you can you can do and caught while you call yourself a creative, you know. And I think photos, especially now, when we have an overflow of photos in on Instagram, where you can edit it like it was, you know, it wasn't possible for like 10 years or five years ago that I think it's way more important that we have motion or photos or that we display or focus on that, because I think that's at some point, making a lot of difference. And yeah, I think how do you how you do get a motion in your photo, it's just if your photo tells a story if your photo reflects something you are dealing with, or the viewer deals with. And I think that is something you can deliver with. Yeah, you can do it in the photo itself through comprehensive composition through like, telling a story with different characters and different emotions or like different facial expressions and people. You can also do it in a caption way, just tell the the actual story in a text. That's what I do a lot. And, yeah, and best thing you can do is combining those two things, you know, so yeah, maybe an example of how I feel like I did accomplish that. Let's go back. Let's go back to the to the example in Java and stick to that for a second. Like, you know, I could have said like it was it's a touristy area by now. Like it's people go there all the time to check it out. And you see a blue flame phentermine. And then yeah, just to go into the crater. But um, I really hated it. I really hated the tour. Like, we didn't book a tour or anything. So we just walked up on the place. And we said, okay, who's local here? Our taxi driver was translating for us. It's like, okay, hey, please. Could you ask one of these guys, you and disability living in this village, if he's working in this in this in this volcano, and maybe he can, maybe he can give us he can just bring us up there. That's all we said. We didn't say okay, we want to have a tour. That's what should be what should be included. We didn't get there with a tour bus or anything. And we really wanted to have the raw and the real experience of the place and the people that live and act in it. And yeah, and it actually happened. So I'll check with you, I was able to communicate with them. One of the guys that works there, his name was Vito, and yeah, he took us up there. And I think that was the first the first step and bringing, and just really considering emotional photo because we weren't there on like on our own, or like with like a big company or anything. We were really there because we wanted to experience the place. How the local student how it actually really is because tourism very, very often just blurs places and perspective. And I think that was the first step. So he took us up here he told us things that no what no tour guy would ever tell us. You know, he told us how people died in the volcano he told us how about all his any injuries he had while working there, he told us about the competition with within the workers and the pressure within the inter inter Yeah, the pressure within the people that work there is and he was actually also able to, you know, we rocked in up into place and all the tourists were gone at some point. We because we totally took took a different time to go to go there from the beginning of from the beginning. So we were really seeing the people that acting in it and like how they actually are because of when they're tourists around, they're different. You know, they're like, you know, they try to sell them things and take photos with them. But when they're all gone, they tried to focus on the work, because that's what I had to get the money as well. Right. And, yeah, I think having that approach gave us the opportunity to see the place and the people in an authentic way. And having this local showing us around, there was a perfect door opener, because he couldn't, he obviously knew every person and he was able to, you know, I had questions, for example, about the place and about the person I was I was photographing, because I wanted to tell the story in an emotional way again. And so he was able to give us information about that person and to talk to him and introduce us and really, like break the ice between that strange like between us with who was stranger to each other, you know, I think the approach definitely determines this the emotion you can you like the amount of emotion you can deliver in a photo as well. And it's not like, oh, yeah, just walk up in a place and see how it goes. But it's actually having a more intention into the story behind it and try to make an make making make an effort to experience that, that place in its real state, I guess. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, no, for sure. Oh, yeah. And then And then, you know, I was able to tell the story. I was a person with a photo that day, you know, and even the shooting process was like, a lot more confident, confident, comfortable, because, again, we had that person that was connecting us to the workers. And also at the end of it, I just had more info. I had more info about the place, I have more info about the person's back when I was shooting. And because we had that local app up there I was that veto that guy. I was able to interview him later on, you know, and ask him like more questions. And, yeah, again, get a real impression. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:03   That's awesome. Yeah, that's, that's really cool. Like, really authentic? I mean, you know, not a lot of people can do that. I mean, I was actually, I was born in Java. So I know that, for sure. Yeah. I mean, it's not, you know, it's a big social difference there from, you know, people that really, really comfortable and rich to people that really, you know, can't totally make, or put the food in front of their house, even though it's only, I mean, for us probably like $1, yeah, probably less than $1 a day to cost to put in front of their family. So it's crazy. But it's quite interesting that you take that approach, because a lot of people are and including myself, because I was born there. And people. And my parents are like, be careful. Be careful, like, you know, like, because there's so many people trying to take advantage of you're obviously on a heart economy, you always hear me that. It's, yeah, we're what what were the thought of you kind of doing that? Weren't you like worried that you get ripped off? Or you get, you know, taken advantage of? Felix Gerz  43:17   Yeah, totally. I have to be honest with you, like I got ripped up a lot ripped off a lot. In the beginning, when I was in New Zealand, you know, I was a I was 18 years old, I just turned 19 or something. And, you know, I didn't know anything about life. And obviously, people take advantage of that and take advantage of you. But you know, the more that happens, the more you learn a bit. And then the more you develop a resistance and a feeling where you're like, okay, something's wrong here. And I think until I got to just this situation in Java, I've been learning and like reevaluating a lot in that case, but yeah, obviously, it's a different culture. It's a it's not a Western, western country. So yeah, obviously, there was a risk, but I think I was absolutely willing to take that risk and to be able to tell to tell the actual story. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:05   That's awesome. Yeah, it's it's definitely, it's definitely take a lot of courage, especially with you know, when you have that much gear that costs so much, right, it's, it's always Yeah, Felix Gerz  44:16   it's true. It's true. I was actually minimalizing my demo gear, I brought up this trip because I was a little sketchy. But, um, you know, I, that's something I felt during my entire travels through, like, I've been to a lot of countries, you know, and I think especially from where you're from, where I'm from back in Germany, in Europe, and also in Canada, you get told, hey, the world is dangerous, you know, everyone in Germany this obviously, really general generalised and stereotypical, stereotypical now, but um, everyone who don't know can be dangerous, so be very cautious, you know, and ideally, not have any contact with them. That's how at least how I felt. And then you go into the world, you know, and as long as you have You know, obviously, you'd have to go into the world with a common sense. You know, there are places in South Africa, we shouldn't be after 10pm In the evening. But generally speaking, if you have a bit of a common sense, I think, and if you have, if you have a smile on your face, and you have, if you're a genuine, genuine person, and you approach people in that way, then you will be surprised how safe and how genuine and Hona friendly the world is, and how a lot of stereotypical things you thought about this world are actually wrong and how nice people are. I cannot tell you a single situation through my, in my Asia trip, where people wanted to harm me. You know, like, obviously, if you are in the streets in Nepal, and the main streets and the touristy areas, and you're running around with the 5g for up over your head, of course, people will be, you know, people see them, they're like, Okay, let's, let's rip the scope. But if you're, if you're a normal person, if you don't do things like that, and if you talk to the person, you know, and you'll be surprised, you'll be surprised how open they are to share their own story, how I got invited to people's houses, you know, I'm a white person, you know, over there, it's different. And they sometimes didn't even see a white person yet. But they just invited me to their house, I got invited once to wedding party on the spot, you know, and I was the firt, the one, the one that was my Kiwi friend, we were just totally confused about what's happening. And I never saw a white person. And we were the first people that saw, you know, in a very, very remote village and Java. And then they had this one day of the year where they had two weddings. And I think they celebrated most birthdays of everyone who lived in the village because they were otherwise they were still pretty quick. Just do it once a day, once a year for everyone, you know. And then they sat us down there in the smart key in this tent. And we were supposed to be the first ones eating before even the bride or the groom, or anyone you know. So basically, you just have to imagine 250 People sitting on their chairs, looking at two white people, me and my friend, Caleb. And we're supposed to, like eat something there. And everyone was watching us. And we're like, Oh, my goodness, this is not good. I we were not feeling confident. You know, and for them, you know, it's a big deal. Like they had meat there was slaughtering like animals. And you know, making sure this was an amazing meal. And then we were the first ones out there big being able to eat. And it was meant that was a life changing experience, like and then also myself, how non generous and like, egocentric will i am? And I also have, like I was about to hit myself in the face for that, you know, because I was like, Man, how can these people not have anything but give you everything they have and still be happy? You know? Yeah, there were crazy things. But it's definitely coming back to. I'm just saying like, the world is less dangerous than you think. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:53   Yeah, no, like, definitely. I think coming back to what you're saying there, there is probably a small percentage of bad things are bad people. But unfortunately, those small percentage is, you know, people are attracted to negative stuff and negative stories. So that's why it looks a lot bigger. But yeah, once when you meet Indonesian people, they're actually very genuine, and they're very welcoming. And they will totally will put their guests in front of themselves. So that's, that's, that's why you get that experience. I'm glad that you get you get a chance to, to, to experience it's a it's a genuine experience. It's hard to get, especially as as a foreigner. So that's, that's good that you get to experience that. So I'm coming off to one hour mark here. I want to ask you a couple more question. And then we can wrap this up. So one question that I want to ask you is, I guess I want to I want to hear one of your most memorable moments in your travel on your photography journey that you that makes you feel like you're on the right track or that makes you feel like this is what you meant to be doing. Felix Gerz  49:24   I think I took it away already by stating that story off the cell for my new work as a job. I think that was a really life changing thing. But on the other hand you know, I tried to avoid your question a little bit now, but I'm saying I think that the confirmation that what I'm doing is right. And that I'm you know, because I'm doing something that's not common from where I'm from, and it's kind of a little wandering without purpose people would say from where I'm from, is that the response means it's it is the response that I get from other people that is very encouraging. You know, when I share things like the story in Java, or with the silver mining worker, people see, like, you know, I share that with people like, I flew to Canada and on the flight, I shared it with like a teenager, like an 18 year old teenage teenager, you know, and he was like, oh, what should I do with my life? Oh, blah. And he was I saw myself in his situation. And I told him the story. And I showed him my photos. And then he said, you know, what? I think you really want I think you're really walking in your, what did he say? I think you're really walking in your calling. And I was like, what, you know that that was like, in your face, I was really like, whoa, okay. And like, sometimes, you know, when when I show people like stories like that people begin to be reflective about their own life. And they're like, whoa, okay, maybe I should change something in my life when I after I saw this now, and just really getting this response that it changes people, because as you am, I'm so glad you you mentioned that I tried to really put emotion into my into motion shots. You know, when you do that, and it affects people, I think you making an impact. And I think that is one of the most rewarding things I just to talk to you like a good old DP in a debit debit, Whetstone. You know, and you've worked with like Patagonia, every and lots of brands like that. And he says, you know, he finds fulfilment and confirmation in what he's doing. Because he has an impact, he changes people's worldviews, he improves the you know, he, he just leaves the world as a better place. And I think that is getting this feedback is the most encouraging thing you can get. But on the other hand, I believe that you shouldn't rely on feedback and comparison and things like that. And that can be really, really poisonous if you use it, use it in the wrong context. But then on the other hand, I see myself how I'm reacting on how I feel joy in this, you know, and how I can connect it to what my heart is beating for, you know, the outdoors with storytelling. And then combined with the response that I just mentioned from other people, I think that is really confirming for me, that I'm doing the right thing that I'm doing something that I made for, you know, sounds pretty deep. I hope that makes sense. But that's just what I feel about it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:20   Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome. I think, you know, that that what what he said in that person that you met in the plane is probably one of the best compliment you can you can get, isn't it? Being knowing where you need to be, is probably the hardest thing I think in life. Because like getting to one place is is not necessarily the hardest thing. But knowing where you want to go is I think it's a lot a lot harder, like knowing which path you need to be. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. That's, that's, that's good to hear. And I think you answered that question really? Well. You know, that's, that was one of my intention is to share a little bit more of that. So that's great. Yeah, so a question that I always ask my guests who come into the podcast. If you were to think back through all of your photography, experience and storytelling experience through photography, what is the one thing that you would give as an advice that you know, that you would tell other people who want to start or want to get into photography world? The one advice that you you feel like it's the most important for them to, to get whether or not they're beginner, intermediate, or even advanced? Felix Gerz  53:52   Very good question. Once again, you're doing a great job. I think. I think what I would give as an advice is I give two advices. Can I give two? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:13   Yeah, sure. Well, you get one. Felix Gerz  54:17   Okay, okay. Okay. So first of all, my advice is ask yourself, why you're doing what you're doing, and why you're loving what you're loving. Because there will be times when you compare yourself and you think your work is not what you're good enough, you're not good enough and things like that. And then it's good to remember why you're doing things in the first place, and that you are having a talent and as soon as it gives you joy, it you know that there's enough reason for you to do it. So ask yourself why you're doing things. And what helped me in my career, or like in my pathway, I guess, to grow a lot was to reach out to people that are where I wanted to be, you know, and I'm doing this right now. I'm doing this current You know, reaching out to I want to be a DP working in Canada eventually. And what am I doing to get there right now, I'm trying to connect with DPS in the area I want to be at, you know, and I'm trying to ask them a lot of questions just to keep on reaching out. And don't care where you are right now. Like, if you're just shooting for shooting your pet in your garden, or if you're doing a big campaign already, for a big company, it doesn't matter. You know, reach out and be proud of what you're doing, no matter where you are, in your path and your photography path. And reach out to people where they are where you want to be. And you will be surprised how open they are to tell you how they got there. And they help how they that how even they're able to know that they're there. They're keen to even help you to get where you want to be. I think that's the two things I would mention. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:53   Awesome. Yeah, that's, that's, that's really powerful stuff right there. I think understanding the why is really important, not only in photography, but in life. So really good advice. There. Be like some thanks a lot for sharing that. And yeah, look, be an amazing conversation had a lot of fun there a lot of fun. Listening to your story. Really awesome episode. And for those people who want to see more of your work and who want to follow your journey and your story, what are some ways they can find you? Felix Gerz  56:31   Totally got a website where I have the one double 0.5% of my life that I think is worth sharing creatively. If you want to have see my shell Look over there. If you want to see more inside, I'm pretty. I'm pretty active on Instagram. And I think, yeah, that would be a way of being in contact with me on more of a daily basis. Yep. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:54   Awesome. All right, cool. Well, thanks a lot for being here. And yeah, look, we can hunters, hopefully you enjoy that there's a lot of inspiration. And also, like I opening story from what we've heard from Felix, so I'm glad that you listening to this episode, because, you know, as a traveller, it's, it's, it's not always the easiest, it's not always smooth sailing. And it's very true, what he said, when you look at some of the stuff that we produce that we create, it can it can bring a perception that we have it all that life is easy that we enjoy everything, but I must say that every everything that we come to comes with the struggle, every achievement that we get, you know, we we just like you we just like everyone else, we're just using. And yeah, and when when we come to these places, it's because we have that struggle to get there. So doesn't matter where you are like Felix says, you know, don't don't, don't get discouraged to where you are, but just look up, look up and see where you can go and look back where and how far you look back and see how far you've gone. So yeah, thank you very much for tuning in. And if you haven't subscribed yet, be sure to subscribe, but leave a comment and hit the like so that we know that this is the type of things that we'd like that you'd like to hear. But thank you very much for sparing your time Felix. I know you're busy on your adventures. You're out there making me jealous. Felix Gerz  58:38   I spent I appreciate you having me. Thanks so much. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:41   all right. Fantastic, man. All right. Well, thank you very much we can hunters and until she I'll see you on. Until next episode.  

Hey Wicked Hunters! I'm so excited to chat with Christian Fletcher, one of the best photographer from Perth, Western Australia. He had won multiple international awards and he has a beautiful gallery in the Southwest region of Australia.  In this podcast, Christian shared his journey to find the photography that he loves and the struggles that came with it.  You can learn more about him by connecting in https://www.instagram.com/christianfletcher_gallery/ https://www.facebook.com/shopchristianfletcher  https://christianfletcher.com.au/ Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe -------------------------- Transcription: Christian Fletcher  0:00   I had a really hard time getting out of that. And my wife pushed me to get away from that fear and to start just pushing myself to do that Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:20   hey, we can do this. Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast. So first of all, happy new year to all of you. And you know, off, we'll have someone very excited is in this episode, and he is definitely one of the most senior photographer from Perth, Western Australia. And he is you have one of the most beautiful gallery who have won multiple different awards. So not only he won, you know, he may he gets some recognition from his photography, but he also get a lot of recognition from his gallery, and I'd like you to welcome Christian Fletcher, Christina, how you doing? Christian Fletcher  0:56   Hey, good. How are you? Thanks for having me on. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:58   Oh, that's, yeah. So yeah, that title Christian Fletcher  1:02   of senior senior photographer. I have got a great handout. I'm actually getting a hiccup tomorrow, everybody. So sorry for it looking so bad. Just what it is, try to shape Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:14   up a few years, once you cut up that hair. Yeah, that's Christian Fletcher  1:18   what I always say, I look younger when I've got this here. So and when I met my wife, I had hair that was down to here somewhere. And I had been dyed several times. So it was kind like a blondie orangey brown kind of colour was pretty awful, actually. And I looked a bit like a homeless person. So she, she sort of shake me up and every now and then I get back into this homelessness kind of look. Like it's alright. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:39   That's really funny. Because when, when I have like a full, like, longer here, and then like, you know, a more beer, like, I don't really grow that much beer. But when I have a little bit more people actually thought I'm like four years old, and then I shaved them off. And then like, are you 20 years old? Like crazy. Alright, well, look, thanks a lot for for jumping in into podcasts. And it's great to have somebody who's been in the game for so long. And you have quite an interesting story on how you get into photography yourself. So do you want to just share with the listeners and a little bit walkthrough of what it's like on your early days when you first got exposed to photography? Christian Fletcher  2:22   Yeah, I got my first camera 15 Everyone talks about, I think every photographer says, I got my first camera at 10 I got my first camera at 12 I got my I got mine at 15. And didn't make me want to pick up the camera and take photos. It was just what was the cost was 150 bucks, it was a really flex sl 35. And it I went through it with my brother, my dad. So we put in 50 bucks each. And I don't even know where I got $50 as a 15 year old boy, maybe dad paid for the lot and just said, Hey, look, here's 50 Give it back to me out of my anyway, this thing because out of the box. And it's I remember being at home, but no one ever doing anything with it. So for that, that first few years after that I hadn't really even touched that camera and didn't even think anything about taking photographs. And then when I was 18, I was working in the government doing a clerical job just back this back before Photoshop before digital before computers before the internet, so it's quite a long time ago. I'm a pretty old guy, hence the grey here. And I had a I was on a holiday. So I had four weeks off of work. And I was into surfing so I would surf a lot. But on the in the first week I had a surfing accident, cut my leg and I couldn't get back in the water because I got infected with this is just a hole in my leg that didn't heal properly. And so I was so bored. I was like I was shot out three more weeks left, I'm not going to do what I want to do with Surf and I thought I'll just get that camera again and see what that's all about. And so I picked up the camera, put in some just negative film that I don't have the most important shot because you could buy film really easily back in those essence, that's all there was, and started saying if you've got them developed and just kind of enjoyed that process. And I remember it was a point where my sister said, Oh, your photos look really good Christian. I don't know why but you know, you take nice photos. So that was kind of my first compliment that I ever gotten from my system that was back when I was 18 which is I can't remember at all it is now it's 30 something years ago, 35 Six years ago. Anyway. From there, I sort of gained a bit of an interest and I took the camera to work and I would become I became the unofficial photographer at work. So if there was a birthday party, they would get me to take photos of everybody and then a wedding my cousin got married so I remember taking my camera to the wedding and doing a couple shots here and and but that was the first time when I thought photography was kind of fun, but I never thought it was gonna be a career. I was just doing this horrible job in the government which I ended up hating the passion. And then eventually I quit that job. I just I just couldn't be there anymore. It was just mind numbing. One of my main duties was to file these forms in alphabetical order and when I started I had four piles that were just like massive piles of paper, everyone had gotten in a strict strict alphabetical order. It wasn't just the AC and the A. And the bees, there was a VC with it. Anyway, it was mind numbing. And I did that for three months, finding bits of paper. And at the end of it, I had three piles left standard for after three months, I only had three. So it'll just took me that long it was that and newborns would come in every day, and it was just horrible food, end up cleaning there. And then, just bumming around with a mate, we made a couple of snowboards, because we thought, oh, we'll just make some stuff because I was into sandboarding as well. So I bought some Epsom salt boards and sell those. And that didn't work that well, because we you know, I didn't have any skills my mate did most of the work. I was just kind of like, helping fund some of the materials. And but we made a couple sideboards that didn't float that well, they were a little bit heavy, and I don't think I think I might have sailed one month, but it was a bit of a dog. So that business was never gonna go anywhere. And, and then I started thinking about all well, and crafty sort of stuff. So I would go out in the bush and find old lumps of old tree roots and stuff. And I'd get out there with a file and some sandpaper and a drill. And I would try and make some shapes out of them, and then varnish them up and put little flowers in them and you know, blah, blah. And that wasn't going anywhere. That was I did one I think I gave it to mom, I think she liked it. But it was another dead end business. And then eventually I end up with a video live because governor at the time who are uncle was selling his video library. So my sister and I got into that was really cheap, little rundown thing. And then I ended up we ran that for about five years or so and was quite successful because we, we managed to get a good following with with clients because we, we knew the numbers and we gave them great service. And then eventually that that died out because the big video stores came in. And so I decided, Okay, well I'm going to I'm going to do something else. So at that time, my parents moved to Dunsborough. And I had been on a trip around Australia working on I was actually doing video at that stage, I had a video camera that is shooting film or cast film cassettes, whatever they are, whatever you call them now. And so I started that. And that was three months of just taking video. And I really enjoyed that process. And notice, I would look at my brother and his wife and I would just run ahead and film them walking path. And they were making these little scenes and I edit all this together. And it was pretty cool. I was quite enjoying that, that process. And then I decided that I was going to leave Perth and move down south and just crash with mum dad for a while. So that's when I thought maybe I'll pick up the camera again. And I'll start taking photos. So you know, it's a bit of a long process from from when I first got the camera to when I actually started to be serious about and I was 25 then at that stage when I picked up the camera again, and thought I got to make this into a career because I think it'd be fun a fun job and it'd be easy. I wouldn't have to answer to anyone I can do my own thing. And people might be pushing me around, which is what happened in the government all time. So I got the I got a little camera out and realised that that wasn't going to cut the mustard. So I thought oh, I'll invest all my money in a really good camera. So all the money I had at that stage was 1500 bucks. So I bought a Nikon 801 s that came with two lenses I think and and that that was my first camera. And within six months I realised that camera was not going to cut the mustard. It was just it was a consumer camera. It was well I think I called it a prosumer camera that was a little bit better than the average. And but then I thought no, I'm not getting the results. I have like my darkroom setup my death house and, and I will just do all the do my stuff there. And I just work in black and white pretty much exclusively at that stage. And then the whole aim was to take landscape photographs and sell them through a gallery and didn't think that I'd have my own gallery eventually. But anyway, I realised that that that Nigam was not going to cut it. So I bought a Bonica medium format film camera so blank sky and started using that. And that's when my work started to be elevated to a different level. And people were starting to take a bit more notice of what I was doing. So I wouldn't say it was good. It took me ages to work out anything I had no I mean, I'm an in green, completely green, bought the gear, and just worked it out myself tried to work it out. But even then I was, you know, you only learned so much with film because you shoot it, then you got to develop it and print it before you know what you've done wrong, pretty much. So that was a really long process. Hence, it took me another 10 years before I started to get anywhere near a reasonable level of quality, but that I was pretty, pretty uptight young guy had a lot of stress, pretty nervy sort of timescale of everything. And I was doing weddings and portraits and that was killing me from the inside. I was just sick every time we do a wedding, I would just be nauseas for the whole week beforehand. And the day before and then the morning of the wedding. I just just woke up with this dread in my heart and I knew that I couldn't continue on doing it. So eventually, I gave up photography for two days. And then I was inspired by a lady who had a small gallery in a small town called Esperance. South of south southeast of But where I was living, and and I thought, well, this lady can do or she's doing what I had intended to do when I first moved down south was to have to shoot NASDAQ photographs and sell them in the gallery. And this lady was doing this. So that's when I thought I've got to get back to, to landscapes. And then from there, it was a long process of doing market stalls, trying to get my photos out wherever I could, it was pitch framing at the time as well. So I managed to con the guy I was framing with to give me space in his in his framing studio to to hang my pitches. And eventually I ended up hiring, releasing the whole front of the building from him. And he had his framings of effects that we shared this season that became our first gallery. And then it sort of kicked off from there. That's sort of abbreviated version of a 20 year period of my photography career. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:50   I'm Christian now your audio just dropped off there a little bit. Not sure if the microphone Yeah, the volume kind of just died down a little bit. Christian Fletcher  10:59   They're speaking close enough in my Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:03   mind. No, it was okay. And then it just died also might be like disconnected or something. Christian Fletcher  11:08   Okay. They seem to be testing one, two, I guess you can't see any. That's just coming through. But microphone on mic. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:16   Not that's that's good. Christian Fletcher  11:18   That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:19   So it must be. Yeah, cool. Well, that's, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I can I can't even imagine. So how do you actually progress and learn photography back then, you know, like, right now, it's really hard to think back of your struggle, because we got everything in our hand, we got Instagram, we got Facebook, we got YouTube, we got it's just so interconnected with with the internet, but you know, like you say, back then it was, especially when you do it all yourself all that trial and error really comes back through a lot of legs, you know, after you finish the role, you take a photo, and then you develop it. And so when do you actually learn, like, you know, the technique and, you know, composition and lights and so forth? Christian Fletcher  12:07   Yeah, I didn't, I didn't learn it. It was just, in fact, I learned nothing until I went digital. And because I had no control. I mean, I remember getting some commercial jobs. And I'd saw some of the top of commercial shooters in Perth, lighting these scenes and I'm going I don't even know how to use I've got lights, but I don't know how to use them. I had no idea of how to balance that out. You know, I was using a light metre lesson stuff. So it was all I didn't I didn't know anything. I think I had a book that Kodak released on photography. And that was one book I remember having. So I had to pretty much learn on the job. And that's why it took so long because I literally went from 25 to 35 not knowing anything. And then 35 I had been to America and I saw some of the some of the best photographers over there, how they were working, what they were doing, and then getting my act together going, Okay, well, I need to have control because I, I'm sending these images off these transparencies off to a lab and the or actually, I was shooting the film a lot of it because it was all leftover film from the wedding days. So I had no control of sending off to the lab expecting to get these great results back and I was going Why can't I get the colours that these guys getting? So then I got a I got into digital. So I basically, I wasn't in digital, I was scanning or scanning of digitally scanning my negative transparencies. So I'd had it I had it I bought a Fuji GX exhibiting panoramic camera that was a that was the first really expensive camera that I bought that was going to allow me to do landscapes that I thought I wanted to do it that that but that time so I built my sort of career on shooting panoramic landscapes, and digitising them. And once I get those files into Photoshop, it was just a matter of teaching myself Photoshop. And that was that was again trial and error. And just I had some books on on Photoshop and how to do it. So yeah, that's when I started to get the control that I needed. And that's and this was still before. I think it'll still be on the internet was around at that stage. But I don't know if YouTube was there. And there was definitely no YouTube videos, on tutorials on whatever. So I was still just trying doing anything myself. I was very insular. When I first brought in for most of my career I spent. I didn't know who was the top photographers were in the country, I wasn't part of the aipp. So I was pretty much just my own guy down in the country. Country hick taking photos and processing my way, the way I sort of thought was right. And it was until I actually joined the AIP that I started to realise what quality, what quality I needed to work towards. And that really helped helped me develop my skills. And then I met some friends that taught me some stuff and went to a couple seminars here and then I did a lot of it. I've been doing a lot of workshops, people I was getting asked to teach people, how I how I did what I did. And so I was very scared of public speaking I hated that the thought of being on the stage and just freezing and not just totally sucking at anything. So I am, I had a really hard time getting out of that. And my wife pushed me to get away from that fear and to start just pushing myself to do that. So I start off doing small workshops in my gallery. And it was actually pretty good because I could set a small amount of people, you know, like, I was doing maximum eight people. And so I thought, Okay, that's good. Then I had a workbook that they could follow along, and I was pretty much going off a formula. And within the first five minutes, I realised that I knew what I was talking about, because that's what I did. So it wasn't so hard. It was, I wasn't off on some topic that I had no idea about. Nobody was like, I know this. But the idea this is this, and whether it was right, it was people didn't mind because it was what I was doing. And they wanted to know what I was doing to get those photos looking like that, you know, that were coming to the gallery. And, and that was, and that was going back about 10 or 12 years ago. So that you know, my my first times doing that I would just get a bottle of wine and pretty much knock off half a bottle before I started so that I wasn't so nervous. And eventually I got to a point where I didn't need any alcohol to, to get on stage. And, and yeah, now now it's all fine. It's all good. But asked me to talk about something I know nothing about, then I'll freeze up. Yeah, that was hard learning. That meant that answer. But learning back then was impossible. And I think in some ways, it made me a better photographer, because I I had to really be sure. And when I was shooting film on my Fuji was $5 Every time I push the button, so I had to make sure that whatever I was pointing the camera at was a reasonable shot. Whereas digital now you just you just shoot away you get moderately interesting, I'll take a photo of that. And then you know, eventually it's just clogging up harddrive. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:46   Well, I think that's definitely the struggles with people who shoot digital camera or started with a digital camera and I'm one of them. You know, so? Yeah, you're exactly right. Like, we're, we're, we take it for granted, we don't think about what was you just gonna like, Oh, that's beautiful. And we don't even think about what is beautiful about it. What is you know, whether or not it's a lie, whether or not it's the shape, whether or not is the texture, we just point and shoot. And I guess that's why they call it point and shoot cameras, right? Because you just switched off you just go up beautiful. Snap. And and that's kind of why like, when I first started photography, my photo doesn't really turn out that great because exactly what I did just point and shoot, I didn't really put a lot of thoughts in there. So yeah, yeah, and look, I I'm like everyone else now today, though, Christian Fletcher  17:31   I still take way more shots than I should. I've gone a bit I think I've taught myself composition a lot better back in those days, I mean, I shooting black and white as well. So I wasn't worrying about colour at all, it's just worrying about tone and contrast and stuff like that. So it maybe it helped me become better at composition. And, you know, it just, I guess you do anything long enough, you kind of know what works and what doesn't work. And I still time and look, I get a ride all the time. I'm just like anyone else. But then you get these moments where you find just that perfect composition. And, and also, it's important to pre visualise when you're out there in the field going okay, well this the lights not perfect, but I know that that little headline is going to look beautiful. And if we put up new sky or if we darken this or light now to add a bit of colour, he'll enhance that area. So you know, I'm always thinking about capturing data as opposed to capturing a photo. So I mean, I still like to capture a photo obviously but an outdoor photos but you know, I might have some stuff some of these things for like I was out data Pesco beach town a little while back and, and I wanted a palm tree I hadn't I hadn't got a shot of a palm tree. So I found this one down there. So I photographed it and then I've used that in other photos so you know I'm not a purist by any any any stretch of imagination I'm I'm always putting in new skies, altering skies, I don't alter landscapes completely, like I don't change the form that's there in nature, but that look if disguise mean sky, something that's changeable. And, and I always say to people, if you're out shooting a commercial job for somebody, you better be good at putting in skies and enhancing images, because that's what they want to see. They want to see the perfect sky over the perfect, you know, building there if that's their beautiful building, yeah, they don't want something average, they want to see the best guy ever. And if you get paid to come out one day, and it's it's not doing what it's supposed to do, then you need to, you need to sort of, so that's that's the way I look at it. i When I'm out photographing, I, especially if I'm away on a trip, if I fly to Iceland, and it cost me X amount of dollars to get there and I want to make sure that I'll catch us guys, I'm not sure if I can catch the skies in Iceland, but I'll use them in other shots. I'll do that. So you know, do that all the time. Just to make things look a little bit more. Perfect. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:52   that's that's a good point. Um, you know, with especially with commercial photography, it's really hard especially if you've got a really short window or um timeframe tissue. So, yeah, very interesting. Take on the shoot for data instead of a photo, that's definitely a different one. One thing that I want to ask you this. So when I started photography, the way I learned composition, I didn't know all these composition techniques. And the way I learned it was, I basically take 100 photos of a similar perspective, just slightly different, right? So one, download one out one closer one with this in it when that in it. And that's how I learned composition. But back on the film days, you don't really have that luxury to, like you say, you know, every snap is $5. And $5, back then, is a lot more valuable than it is now. So how do you actually learn composition all together? Christian Fletcher  20:48   It's very slowly, you learn it very slowly with film. I don't know I, I just got to a point where, and I liked the idea what you just said about taking the same, the same scene 100 times from different perspectives, changing your viewpoint and all that sort of stuff. But I never did that. And because I couldn't, but I think I've made enough mistakes along the way to go, okay, I can work that out. But now I can go out and I can see the balance, and I can see the composition. And it just feels right. And, you know, it's like when you I can like if you're looking at a mountain range, right? I always think about my histogram on my camera, and having that perfect histogram, you know, with that beautiful triangle shape. And you might have a couple of nice, and sometimes you look at the history and go, Wow, that's a beautiful composition. And then other times, you've got this horrible one, it's just like, it comes up and it goes straight across, and it goes down a little bit and then and then cuts off there. And it's like this horrible, ugly histogram that doesn't fill you with any joy. So I just when I'm out shooting, now I kind of feel that the composition is right. And I find that easy. And I work quite quick. And I've done a lot of shooting with mates like them Tony, who who's an amazing photographer. And he does beautiful work. But he goes on to say, How come you you're here? You're there, you're over there you'd like. So I'm either not getting it right. And I'm just moving on think I got it right, or I got it right. And I kind of move on to the next thing. So I think I do have a an ability to see composition, easily. And and I know I can just feel it's balanced or not then. So that that probably helps. I wouldn't say I get it right all the time. Yeah, I find it probably a bit easier than maybe some some people. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:28   Yeah, I think like some people might, like looking at composition might come natural to some people. And I guess you're kind of one of those more lucky one than the others. Christian Fletcher  22:40   So that's why I ended up in photography and why I've been successful, because, I mean, there's a lot of photographers in Australia, but not many of them have galleries or and I'm sure there's some more that could, you know, especially in my case, it's been because it's been a long process. And it's been a process that I've had to help with. I've had staff and partners that have enabled all these things to happen. You know, I've done I've done well, but you know, it's, you think there would be more people doing it, but it just isn't. So aberdovey always a lot of photo galleries of your way kind of Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:14   this, there are a few but you know, like nowadays, I think with the way the online world works, it's kind of easier, you got less costs, you know, you just put it out there. And I think it's a lot less risk, right. And I mean, I saw your I saw your bio, and you were inspired to kind of build a gallery, you saw somebody have a gallery and you thought to yourself, you want to build a gallery. So there might have been reason why you get to where you are right now where most people kind of, especially nowadays, in the modern era, don't really think much of a gallery, more of Instagram followings. But that's their dream is to get 30,000 100,000 followers on Instagram. Yeah, Christian Fletcher  23:57   that's so true. And, and this is probably a reflection on my age. I mean, I've had had my own galleries for 20 years, so 20 years ago, the only way you're gonna sell prints, if you had them in a gallery, though, there was no social media to help you sell them so and it just carried on. But I think one thing about a gallery that just gives you that little bit of credibility, and then also because, you know, we get followed by other people on Instagram that are other photographers that are and not all, but not all, but there's definitely a lot of that so, and a lot of other photographers aren't going to buy your work, they're going to look at what you do and try and emulate it or, and make their own which is perfectly fine. It's great. So a gallery out. And we've done studies on people and how they found out about our gallery and most of them are just walking by and see it see at the front and go let's go in and have a look. And that's where we get our sales from. So even after all these years, we still make more sales out of our gallery than we do online. But then yeah, like you said, you got that massive debt as well. Not a debt but that every week you're gonna sit sell certain amount of pitches to keep the doors open, pay the rent, pay the wages, pay attacks, all that sort of stuff. So. And then when we had when COVID hit us, we closed the gallery for five weeks. And our staff went on to Job keeper, which was fantastic. Because we didn't have to worry about wages we didn't have, we only had some renters our overhead. And electricity had been deferred all those costs. So we were just back to internet sales, and we'll and we got some good sales over that period of time. And I said to my wife, is it far out? Do we really want to reopen the gallery because this, if we can just live like this, we can just, we don't have to do much, we can just bring the printers home, get the oldest make prints, put them in tubes and stuff. And it'd be fantastic. But it's still nice to have your own space. Because people they see see more, you're more visual, basically. Yeah. And being in Dunsborough, in the small little holiday town, we get a lot of people that come in, and we get repeat customers. And it used to be exposed to a different different group of people. And it's kind of nice, because you, you you get immediate feedback from, from real people, not just like on Instagram saying I love to shop man, you know, it's cool that yeah, and they hand over cash. That's, that's always nice, too. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:14   Yeah, I think I mean, like, I have a dream that one day, I will have my own gallery. No more not for the sales part of it, but more of just being able to bring my work and present it in a way that I'm happy about, you know, being able to see that big print of yours and hanging on the wall is a different feeling. I'm sure you can relate to that. And that's, that's the main reason why I want to Gallery. But I want to I want to know, and get a little bit of insights or so you did a few different things from commercial portrait and wedding and kind of ended up with travel and landscape photography. How do you get there kind of what is the process of why you decided that it is your it is what you want to do for, you know, for your main part of your photography career. Christian Fletcher  27:09   It was because I mean, I started out wanting to do that. Because like I said, Back Back in those days, I was very insular, I was quite, you know, I wasn't into being in the limelight. And public speaking, I didn't like being around people so much. Not that I'm not a people person, because I enjoyed it. But I thought the far as work goes, I needed to be controlling my destiny, and I need to do something that I enjoy. And landscapes always seemed like the option for me, that was the most good, the best match for my personality. So I didn't commit I got sucked in. I started out doing landscaping, I got stuck into the commercial work and the portraits and weddings by people, friends, people in town. And I knew, I mean, I had when I put my very first pictures up in an a restaurant, my brother had a restaurant in town where I worked as a dish big washing dishes. I put pictures in there, the first day I sold one. And that was an amazing feeling to have a landscape photograph. They're all black and whites and to sell. So one on the first night was was brilliant. So that again, got me thinking, Yes, this is the path for me. But the reality was that it took another three months before I sold the next one. So I wasn't gonna make any money out of photography. And so I had to wash dishes, pitcher, pitcher, framing, and all that. And then from having the work hanging in the restaurant, I would get business people coming and saying, Can you do this photo for me? Can you do this though? So I started doing commercial work that way. Then I had a friend who I met down south and he said, Can you do my wedding photos. And that was when I started doing weddings and other work out. At least I'm making money from photography, you know, but I had no idea what I was doing. I was shooting these things and these for these people. And I'm heading over the work and I'm not happy with it myself. Because I'm never happy with my work. I know. It has to be pretty special for me to really like it. And if I do like it, I like it for a month, two months, three months, six months, and then I hate it or not. I mean, I've got images I don't hate but there are images that I've just never want to see again. And they just frustrate the hell out of me when they sell on the gallery. Why are you buying that? Horrible? Buy this one? No, no, I like this one. Yeah, but look at that. Look, there's noise and there's some weirdness going on. It's over. There's a small file shot on the canon that he d 60. And IT systems horrible. Anyway, he gets on like a photographer. Yeah, so we are very harsh and very critical. There were. So I didn't that's how I got stuck in the commercial. But then after doing it for so long. It really started to I was getting really nervous and I was starting to feel like I needed to escape from it. I didn't I stopped enjoying it was like when I was back in the government and people were telling me what they wanted me to photograph and I didn't like that. I had no idea what I was doing. I was doing commercial work and they were wanting specific things not going. I didn't even know how to do that. And I was just fudging it. And I remember I had to photograph a fairly important lady a very well known lady I'm in Australia, and I took a few shots and I can't do this anymore. I am too worried about being found out as a fraud. So I need to just get back to doing my landscapes. And that's when I quit for a while and then rediscovered landscape photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:15   That's fantastic. Yeah, like, I don't have to look back since I think many, many of us really, especially when you kind of just started really got sucked in into the, you know, because the portrait and the commercial all the one that a lot easier to make money, it's in necessity. So cool. That's a it's a really good to hear that story from your side of things. And you know, to kind of see that you do have that struggle as well. So what do you find? How does the photography become a part of your happy lifestyle, then? You know, especially now, you still do a lot of photography? Does it still, you know, after all this year, does it still bring satisfaction and happiness? Christian Fletcher  30:55   Yeah, I, it's the only passion I've ever had, I've never sort of got sick off. Because I've done a lot of things and have a lot of a lot of fun things. And, but photography has always been dealing with will be and like, if someone said, Hey, Fletch, you know, here's an opportunity to go on a trip across the, you know, to some shitty town 300,000 kilometres away. And we'll end and we'll take a canvas and see what we can get, I'll be in there because I love I love it so much that I just love making images. I love finding it. Because for me, it's like, gold prospecting. You know, when you get it, you get your metal detector, and you go out. I mean, who doesn't want to go dig up a nugget, a golden nugget and, and how exciting is just to be wandering in the bush and all sudden, you see something that's, that's incredible. And, and you get that get that golden moment where you take that photo, and I never get sick of that feeling. It's, you know, whether you liken it to an Easter egg hunt, or opening your presents at Christmas time. If Adobe is like that, for me, every every time and, and I get excited, you know, like, it's, I remember when I used to surf, if I was a good good days in the surf, you know, you pull up to the beach, and you see the ways understand you're starting to get in a heart starts to pound and you're going, you're getting ready and you're getting so many that you want to get out but you're nervous, but you want to do it and then you're worried you're going to miss it. And I'm in photography is I've had so many stressful moments where you're racing in your car to get down to the spot, you know, the sun sets gonna be amazing. We just got to get to that, you know, you're just gonna do another kilometre, and you gotta get out, you got to get the tripod legs out, and you got to race down the beach, and you've got to get to that that spot and shoot it before that sunset disappears. And I love that. Stressful that and that's what keeps me going. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:40   I mean, yeah, like hearing your your stories, it sounded like you are passionate about photography in it, because you do you did try a lot of things before you get there. But once you kind of find photography, just stick with it as a ghost to show how much you you're passionate about it. So yeah, Christian Fletcher  32:55   fantastic. But any day of the week, if I if I could, if I didn't have a business that was a little bit heavy on labour, I would be I'd be out there shooting more and I do need to push myself more to get out. But you know, I've got a family and kids in high school got a business. That's that's almost it was a seven day a week business. So there's always something to do. I got a big yard for the gardening to do just doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to do anything. But if I could, I'm the happiest when I'm on my own with my camera somewhere in the bush taking photos. That's that's, and it doesn't have to be spectacular. The less spectacular for me the better. Because there's less pressure on you. If you're in the Canadian Rockies, I think you said five out. I mean, you have so much pressure because your landscapes are awesome. If you go out and get photos that suck, then you're in big trouble. Whereas for me, we're in Australia, one of the flattest countries on earth and it's one of the oldest countries and there ain't much out here there's always there's a lot of great stuff that is so spread apart, that we don't have massive mountains with snow capped peaks and glaciers and beautiful blue lakes and all that sort of stuff we we have the Outback, which is had its own sort of nice things about it, which sounded like that we got 15 minutes of good light in the morning and 15 minutes at the end of the day. And the rest of the day. If you're up north it's baking hot. You know you'll die out if you break down it's remote. So yeah, that's there's less pressure it's more pressure on surviving this on getting good photos. It's so much easier. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:34   It's interesting that you mentioned that because it is so true that you know when you're out here it seems like you're trying to please everyone else then to please us sometimes and it's like it becomes an uphill battle. Again, you know, because of the social media and you know, say Oh, this guy is making this like the shot is like it's in perfect condition. And sometimes I get like really pushed to go to this location at that certain time. And when I first got here, that's what I did like literally just chasing every single condition. Um, you know, now kind of, because I've already have that I tried to force myself to sit back a little bit and just find one that actually, I really liked. Yeah, really, really interesting that you mentioned that, because that is very true. Over here, a lot of a lot of British gender. Yeah. So you're very passionate about the environment as well. And, you know, I, myself, when I started travelling, before I even got into photography, I have a lot of ignorance with with the environment, and what's happening around the environment. And travel really opened up my eyes, and I get to see a lot of things that I would normally things like, you know, I was just, you know, wandering chameleons, like, it's not going to make a difference. But when you actually go out there and go to those places and actually see, you know, with your own eyes, it really changes your perspective. So, sure, I know you're really passionate about it. So I'd like you, I'd like to hear some of your stories about, you know, either project or some environment sort of issue that, that you see through your travel and photography, and what do you think we can do about it? Christian Fletcher  36:13   Well, yeah, big issue, big, big question. I really struggle with being an environmentalist and travelling a lot for photography. And, you know, up until in the last 10 years, I've travelled all over the world, you know, long haul flights all over the place. I mean, I always offset my flights. Usually with Qantas, I'm always offsetting those emissions pay a little bit extra than what happens to that money, does anything amazing. So there is that there is that side of it. And when the biggest issue that I found, in my travels was when we went to Antarctica, and we had I was invited as an instructor on a trip. And we I was to drift I was hooked on to back to back. Anyway, we get down to Punta Arenas in Chile. And what's happened is that we get a plane from there down to King George Island. So instead of having to go across the Drake Passage, in a boat, you just fly across it. So you have the same amount of time down on the peninsula, but you're not flooding around in the ocean, getting seasick. So it's quite a good option, you know, that unfortunately, on this particular week that we were there, the conditions were quite warm in Antarctica, and the island was formed, a covered in fog. And that went for a whole week, so that everybody that was on the first trip in Antarctica, didn't get to go. So we were all in Puntarenas, waiting by the hour or waiting for the conditions to change. And so we could fly in. And we had two aborted attempts to get into Antarctica where we got packed the way down and the plane just turned around, and then ended back in Puntarenas. And then the second trip, luckily, the fog cleared, and we were able to get in and, and we we landed because there's it's not a it's an uncontrolled to airspace as there's no tower and all that you basically got people on the ground saying, I don't know, man, I can't even see five in front of me so. So yeah, so that was when I really, really hit home that we've got a problem. And, and how that affected so many people. And I'm sure that happens quite regularly. Now, as we know, Antarctica is having record temperatures, and there's record Ice, ice loss. And another time where I thought, you know, where the pollution was a problem was when I was in Cambodia. And I'd never seen the Natta plastic rubbish that I'd ever seen. And, and basically, the conditions that people were living in and, you know, it was quite confronting, you know, thinking, wow, we've gone this far that we, we, you know, we've just, we can't get rid of our wastes, you know, and we're lucky here in Australia, we're, we're privileged, we've got, you know, we've got a functioning government that's, that works well, we pay our taxes, and we haven't got to 30 There's so many countries that don't have that. And it's not anyone's fault. Well, it probably is the government's fault that, you know, you know, there's a lot of issues that people, you know, they can't change things for the fact that it's so easy to sit back as a privileged Westerner, to and point fingers, hey, you need to be, you know, turning your lights off at night and then spending, you know, putting the rubbish in the bin and, and, you know, all this other stuff that we're the ones that are creating the bulk of the problems by consuming what we consume. And, and I'm not saying I'm perfect, and we do what we can, but it's such a big topic thing, I think, definitely getting off off coal and gas in Australia was were the one of the worst culprits because we have a lot of it. And it just frustrates the hell out of me because the way I look at it, that they seem to want to protect the coal industry so much, I'm probably gonna get a lot of trouble here. But anyway, I think there's something like 20,000 coal jobs in Australia that might go with it. coal industry was just phased out. But then I sat down I thought about the photography industry, not about, yeah, remember the old days when there was film, you would go take your films down to the mini lab. And every town would have a mini lab where there would be somebody with a processing machine, you get you put your films in, you get your photos back, you know, four by sixes or whatever. And you don't see them anymore. They're just gone. You know, they don't exist anymore. And they would have been one in every town, all across the world, you would think, right? And now that just don't exist anywhere. But no one ever complained about the poor old photography workers that end up without a job. So this is, this kind of annoys me, is this, this kind of this the power of the minerals Council, the lobbies, the lobby groups and all that. They just say, Oh, no, no, no, no, you can't do that. We got to keep digging the coal out of the ground, and blah, blah, blah. Because we got to keep that the jobs and the jobs. Well, how about the jobs in the renewable industries? You know, that's, that's why aren't we making hydrogen and I think that's actually happening. Now, I think Australia is getting a bit more involved in some of the big miners are starting to do that. And it's going to take those sort of people, big industries, the big corporations to go, Hey, we got to change the way we do things. So that's more the issue, as opposed to there's more people that love it, yeah, we can always inspire other people to do things like consume less, on what needs to be consuming less. And, you know, one thing I really see is having young kids teenagers, they're so much more aware. And then than we ever were, and my son, for example is, is he doesn't want anything he doesn't want to consume, you know, he's he, he doesn't see the benefit doesn't see the need, he understands what's going on in the world. And, yeah, and, and there's a lot of kids that are now so much more aware of everything from, you know, racism, sexism, you know, that politically aware, they understand corruption, and, you know, and I'm hoping that they're going to be the ones that make the changes, you know, when they turn 18, and can vote, and I think you can see it happening. We've had a bad run of leaders around the world. Now for a while, or the nutjobs had been out submitting their, their hold on power, but they're in the minority now. So we just gotta get out, get all the rational thinking people together and make some changes that make the world a better place for everybody in it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:16   That's, that's fantastic. I think grant, I totally agree with you, you know, it's not about changing it overnight. And I think it's impossible. It's, it's about finding what sustainable, right? Because there's always that balance between, yes, we can do this, but then what's going to happen with everything. So it's about having that awareness that maybe if you just reduce once a day, it will actually make a lot of impact. So yeah, that's, that's, that's amazing. Um, especially, this is what I find as well. Coming back to your story in Antarctica is that what I find when I'm here in Canada, I see global warming a lot more. One of the glacier that is here, receding at 50 metres per year, at least 50 metres per year, which is, like when you think about it's crazy, because it's, it's massive, like, you go there, it's like, five storeys high, you're looking off, and it's like, what this thing melting, like, disappearing at 50 metres per year, that's just insane, you know? Yeah, it's a really, really happy when I see someone else, you know, spread this, this message, I suppose. It's, it's, it's not gonna be, it's not always gonna be we're not always going to be able to change everyone. But that's, that's where it started, right? Christian Fletcher  43:25   Well, and I think it's really hard to change people's minds if they if they're not ready to change. And, you know, I've given up ranting and raving on Facebook and stuff on Instagram and on Facebook anymore. Because you don't win any fans, you just alienate people, you just make you push them even further away. Because no one no one wants to be told what to do, and how they should be living their life, they need to want to do it themselves. And then they need to make the changes themselves. And I mean, and inspiring people to do this more effective than calling them out for and we're all hypocrites, we all we all do ship things, I mean, the best thing we can do is go jump off the planet somewhere and let it do its thing, you know, but when it's not gonna happen, we're all here. We just need to be smarter. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:10   Yeah, that'll happen. That's very true. Like, and I think one of the reason why I encourage people to travel more is that they will get to experience it for themselves, because a lot of times, you know, they see the media and they think the media is lying, and just finding that headlines like, yeah, they might be finding that headline, but there's also a little bit of truth in it. And, you know, being able to see for yourself like I myself only changed my mindset when I when I see for myself, so it's definitely a difficult one for sure. Well, thanks a lot for being here. Christine. And one last thing, one last question that I always ask my, you know, anyone that comes into this podcast, what is the one message or one advice that you can give photographers, whether or not they're, they're new or they have been in it for a while. Christian Fletcher  45:02   Yeah, it could be anything. So what is the one message that you would deliver to never be happy with what you've done this week, because it's always gonna you get, you can always get better, you can always strive for more, you can do things that have more meaning. And I do that all the time, I think if you, as a photographer, think that you're at the pinnacle of the game, and you're the best you're ever going to be, then you're probably not going to be that good. You need to keep moving forward, and experimenting and trying new stuff. And, and that's the hardest thing to do. Because, and I'll stay with myself, you know, it's so easy for me to get up in the morning and go out, find a pretty landscape, take a photo, edit it, print it, put it in the gallery, and someone guys lovely, it's beautiful. But that's not gonna last forever, and it doesn't feed your soul. So you need to just continue to push yourself, don't be happy with what you've done. Always know that you can do better, because you can. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:58   Perfect. Well, thanks a lot. And that's, that's perfect to close our podcasts. Now, for those of you for the listener who want to find more about you and your work, especially your gallery. Where can they find you? Yet? Well, Christian Fletcher  46:12   you go online, probably the best way it's Christian fletcher.com.au. And it shouldn't be too hard to find. And yeah, that's where I do most of my stuff through the gallery. I will I'm not doing any much training anymore. I do have a training website where I teach. I've got video tutorials on my Photoshop techniques. And that's Christian Fletcher. training.com. Perfect to that you subscribe to that. And that, you know, like you said, everything's on YouTube. But the difference with my stuff is that if you like my work, what I teach is basically what has become my style. So the techniques that I do, you may be able to find those from other places. But if you like what I do, then that is it's valuable in that respect, but not much different than what you find anywhere else. And on YouTube. There's probably guys doing way better than me. But my tutorials are a bit more quick. And to the point. Less rambling. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:08   Yeah, well, I think at the end of the day, it's it's about what, what resonates with people, right? So check out Christian's work. And if you do like his work, you know, see even check out the training and see if you could learn from what you have to teach you because he's been on the game forever. And he's definitely from for for a city that is so isolated. Unknown Speaker  47:33   Definitely have been to everywhere. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:36   So that's fantastic. All right. Well, thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for sparing some of your time. I know you're busy back home. But yeah, well, we'll come this to an end. We can hunters, thank you very much for tuning in. And hopefully that is you find that inspiring as well as helpful in your photography journey. And if you're, if you liked this and if you're interested to hear more, don't forget to hit the subscribe button just down here and leave a comment or a like, you know, feel free to stay in touch with me and Christian. Well, thank you very much Christina for being here and absolutely love this episode and it was such a pleasure to talk to you. Christian Fletcher  48:13   Likewise, man, thank you  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  In this episode, I had a great conversation with one of the photographers who inspire me to shoot more Milkyway Photos. He takes astrophotography like no other, his photos have been featured in Nasa website, Magazines cover page, and all over Australia. In this podcast, you can learn how he progresses in his Astrophotography journey and overcomes the fear of the dark sky. You can learn more about him by connecting in Instagram: - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/astrophotobear/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/astrophotobear/ Website: https://astrophotobear.com/ If you want to watch the video podcast, you can subscribe and go to https://youtu.be/cm_t-SgOJNA Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe -------------------------- Transcription: Michael Goh  0:00   And then from during the first few star trails in the backyard because I was too frightened to go off by myself into the dark somewhere Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:16   weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion for photography and share how it gives us hope, purpose and happiness in our life. So today we have, we're going to talk about Astro photography, and we have someone very special. He is one of my inspiration when I started photography. Actually, there's a few peoples in Perth, that really got me into photography, and he was one of them. So I'd like you to welcome Michael go. How's it going, Michael? Michael Goh  0:52   Hi, Stanley. I'm doing well. Or, actually I'm doing tiredly, I suppose. I'm always a bit tired. I'm reasonable. There you go. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:03   Are you having me on? Are you always tired? Because you're always out at night and shooting like this dice? Is that why? Michael Goh  1:11   No, I'm tired frequently because of that. But I'm tired for many other reasons as well is that I think in this last week, I've I've shot seven to 10 events at the moment as well. So therefore, I'm just basically doing I suppose photographing maybe an event in the morning and event come back quickly changed here. And then head back out to photograph a and awards night or something at the moment. And then it's all the post process. Oops, sorry, my, my camera every now and then we'll freeze up. And then it's basically post processing and delivery to clients, we've been fairly quickly, and then still planning for when I'm going out, because I actually have quite a lot of projects on at the moment, which will require me to head out, possibly anywhere between a few 100 to maybe 1000 kilometres, basically, at this point of time for time lapsing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:03   Oh, wow. So what sort of project is is it like more like a personal project? Or is it a project that you're doing for someone else? Michael Goh  2:12   These are, there's a combination of it, because the there are personal projects, which you have to do your personal projects. And I'll get to that in a moment. But the these are projects for, I suppose tourism bases, and also for a documentary on astronomy in Western Australia, which I'm a member of the project team for. That's amazing. But you need to always be having your personal projects I actually discovered. So I'll go off on tangents because I'm a tangential sort of person is I discovered over the last few years, as everyone says, hey, look, have you got this footage or that footage or, and you need to be building up your own personal library for all these things for when clients or people need it? Because I had a project earlier this year, and they actually asked me, Hey, have you got the Pleiades as a time lapse? And I said, Well, if you asked me three weeks ago, the answer would be yes, I can go and get that. But unfortunately, because the stars don't care about what our timeframes are, it was actually too late to actually time that sort of anymore. The universe doesn't care we have to fit in with the universe. That is true, that is true. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:23   So well, we kind of jump just jump right in there straightaway to your project. But usually I'll ask you to introduce yourself and what you know what, what sort of photography you do and just share with us a little bit more about yourself that you know, the listener might be interested in. Michael Goh  3:45   Okay, of course, my name is Michael Gove. I am now a full time photographer. I actually only went into full time photography a few years ago. Although I've been photographing astrophotography for about eight years now. I think it's a little bit blurry, my everything blurs into one after a while. I get to do a wide variety of photography. So I do commercial photography. I do a lot of event photography, video, aerial. I do your Google 360 photo spheres. Of course, your landscape. When I sorry, often my tangent again, when I do event photography, I like calling myself John Wick, because you dress in black and you shoot everyone. And I also do of course astrophotography both in terms of just still within your time lapses. It tends to be more of your landscape astrophotography rather than your DSLR at the moment, although it is in my plans to do do so in the next year, basically. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:48   So explain to us a little bit. What is DSL for the listener who you know, might not be familiar with that. Michael Goh  4:55   Okay, DSL is deep sky objects. So you're you're photographing your distinct galaxy. These and I suppose your your distant nebula and and clusters, your distant celestial objects, I've actually more or less leaned more towards the landscape photography rather than the DSO in the past, because the landscape astrophotography connects you with your landscape with your where you are. So that in my opinion, it's always been, I suppose lends you to being a little bit more creative in that regard and also off on the side is that I found this was not the purpose as to what the landscape photography but landscape photography also lends more to your your, I suppose appeal for tourism purposes, because a lot of a lot of regions and sell and say look, we want to have, I suppose say how good this place is for for stargazing Astro photography. But if you're photographing, say, the Orion Nebula, it's got nothing, it's got no connection to where you are. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:00   So do you do more landscape as your photography? Because it is, it is more, I suppose, like sellable? Or do you find it more interesting to do more landscape photography because of the dynamic of the landscape, and how you can combine them with the stars. Michael Goh  6:20   More of the latter, the sailboat side of things just happened. I don't believe in photographing unless you have permission to do a particular photo shoot, I don't believe in basically going out to do it because it's saleable. But that's just basically been the end result. A an additional thing that's come out. It's just that I suppose I love seeing the fantastic landscapes around us and basically combining it with the stars. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:47   So what what got you into? I said, Sorry, Michael Goh  6:53   except includes shape. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:57   So what what got you into Astro photography, why Astro photography? Michael Goh  7:03   Okay, I suppose this, I'll go back a little bit further than that. Sorry. Because the there's a long story about the photography in the first place. One, we, we I originally only got my first DSLR maybe about 11 1011 years ago now. Because we drove across Australia. And we are now on the way back we thought wouldn't be nice if we had better, better photos. And then basically, photograph on professional mode for LP for professional. And I actually did my first long exposure, let the landscape photo by accident. So Oh, wow. That's great. And of course, nowadays, like, oh my god, that's so average, the. But then I saw the fantastic work of a photographer called Corey white. She's a photographer based in the UK, she does drop collisions. So when you've got one drop, hitting another drop, and then then another drop, and that basically spreading out, opened up my mind to thinking, hey, look, you can photograph a lot more than what you can see with the eye. And then that led me down the path of wanting to photograph other things that you can't actually readily see with the eyes. And then that led me to my first star trail, which was from my backyard. So that was my first dip into astrophotography. And the reason why I wanted to do star trails as I thought, I can't remember where I originally saw. Oh, that looks fantastic. And I've always been, I suppose a science fiction fan being Star Wars, Star Trek, and so on Battlestar Galactica in the light. So therefore, that was the interest in space. And then from during the first few star trails in the backyard, because I was too frightened to go off by myself into the dark somewhere. I photograph my first Milky Way at about two o'clock or three o'clock in the morning, about 50 kilometres north of Perth, by the side of the road, I quite literally drove to a location hopped out and said, Okay, this is, this is where it's going to be in photograph and pop there with my first milkyway photo. Wow. And then it just kind of went on an insane path after that, because as you as you know, the astrophotography can be a little bit addictive. And then it was just experiment after experiment, and it just kept on growing bigger and bigger. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:26   So it's that's really cool. Like, that's really cool to hear that. I'd like to check out what was her name quarry. Michael Goh  9:36   The quarry why, or why. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:39   Okay, I really have to check that out. Because that sounds interesting. But yeah, like, that's, that's, that's good. Thanks for sharing with us. That's it's good to hear kind of the origin of Azure photography for you. So, in terms of you just said earlier, like, you know, it can be scary and intimidating to go out at night, on your own, especially when you just started. How did you overcome that to begin with? And how did you, I suppose, get used to it and be okay with it, you know, just being alone in the middle of nowhere, when you can't see anything. Michael Goh  10:21   I suppose it was, there was a little bit of Sukkot, you just you just go out and deal with it. Admittedly, the first few times I did astrophotography, driving off into the dark, I actually thought of that, hey, look, the Milky Way only rises at two o'clock in the morning. So gee, this is going to be a bit of a hard effort doing took me about two o'clock in the morning, every time to photograph the Milky Way. That was before I knew about Milky Way season and so on. The So initially, for the first couple of years, probably I think I just drove out and then photographed and I quite literally drove back the same day, or same night as the case may be. And then it was eventually I went off and did overnight trips as well. So I suppose I wasn't, there was a little bit of intimidation to go out by yourself completely. And photograph these things, I suppose earlier on, I used to apart from the first couple of times, which basically was, like I said, just getting up and driving out at midnight, or two o'clock in the morning is that later on, I actually took a friend out with me, who's not a photographer. So a friend of mine, Stuart, did actually just sit in the car, and wait for me while I'd be doing star trails. Later, it's good friend. So it wasn't terribly interesting for him, because he'd quite literally just be waiting for me in the dark. And then later on, it was it was basically just driving out by myself. And it was just building up my confidence of going out by myself. Because I think quite when I started doing astral photography, as well, I didn't actually know any other photographers. It was is, it was actually quite a, I think a year or so later, we're tracklist bumping into other photographers and joining, I suppose camera groups to actually meet other people. In which case, then all of a sudden, you have a little mob scenes and so on where you've got groups of people, everyone parked around you for your astrophotography because no one wants to go off and look for their own compositions. So I think he was just slowly building up that confidence. And now I quite literally will go out and camp or be on the back of my truck and sleep on the tailgate of my truck at times, depending on the location and photographing through the night. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:48   That's that's, that's cool. Yeah, that's really cool. That was, it was the same for me. I actually afraid of the dark. I don't know how I got into astrophotography actually, I need to kind of thing really dig, dig deep on you know how I overcome that fear. But yeah, and I'm sure many people out there not only you know, just the dark, but the whole safety right, it's especially if you're if you're on a foreign land or you know, a place that you kind of never been to it's it can be intimidating. Like for example here in Canada, we got the bears is apparently still still up like they're not hibernating. So that's like another thing in there. So what sort of, Michael Goh  13:34   I suppose Sorry, I'll just jump in and a little bit more is sometimes still in the dark. You go, what the heck am I doing out here? Because you will hear strange noises or I was actually at as ever location, which I hadn't been before. So I'd actually injured my back while I was out there. And of course, when you injure your back or injure yourself anyway, you're going all the other thoughts come into your mind and you go, why am I out here in the middle of the night because you're basically balancing on on surfaces, which aren't all that great to be out there. So therefore you your mind starts playing tricks on you with all the strange noises that you hear. I was I saw a post from someone recently that there were wild dogs around where they were. And so they decided to retreat from where they work because they were on the side of a cliff. You don't want to be scared basically to fall off the side of the cliff. And nowadays as well I actually carry CB radios a personal locator beacon about to start carrying out selling equipment as well just to tie myself off to the things where if I need to. I bought myself a little climbing ladder recently as well not that I want to be climbing things in the middle of the night like like some photographers I know. You have fantastic photos of them climbing cliffs in the middle of the night. But yeah, the safety is always power. Millions in terms of like, you scout your location before it gets dark, so you know where you are. And I've also got a purse, handheld GPS, so I can't find my way in the dark. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:10   That's, that's awesome. Thanks for bringing that up. Actually, you know, it's really good to tell that to the listeners, because although I feel like a lot of that fear is just, it's not true. It's always good to be prepared. And you're you're right, you know, especially when you're out there by yourself. When you start it, it's good to bring a friend, you know, because you kind of just get into it. But even if you've done it for a while, you never know what's going to happen. And you know, bringing a radio or supplicating beacon can actually save you live. So that's, that's a really good point that you bring up there. But one thing that I want to ask you is that, you know, all this fear that you had, when you're about to kind of start this journey, you know, before you can get used to it. Do you find that a lot of those fear are just in your head? Or is it actually a lot of them are like a real fear that you just haven't come across with? Yeah, Michael Goh  16:17   I think majority of the time is in my head. Because I'm quite comfortable. Most of the time I've been out in the dark now. Except I'm still not fond of being out in the dark at the side of the cliff. Because I'm not I'm not a great fan of heights either. But I used to be an avid ceiling and caving trip leader many years ago. I'm not fond of heights I'm not fond of frequently of the duck. But having said that is that you do sometimes hear stories of say there. I noticed a story a number of years ago when someone was photographing. And then someone turned up with a shotgun. Wow. And it was actually just a farmer who was curious and alerted. No feel concerned that there was strange lights at the location I'm assuming. So you do have thing you do think about that. Most of the time, I'm actually more worried about other people, as there's gear security and my security but based on on if some strange person comes up and you meet people in the middle of the night, and you go Why are you out here in the middle of night. So it's more of that rather than Hey, I'm going to have a a physical threat of other sorts from animals. Especially since I've got the GPS and because going back to my caving days, I usually go out with multiple light sources. So you look at your redundancy. So I've got my headlamp I've got a handheld torch and I've got another light source as well just in case everything goes wrong in addition to the GPS, which drops breadcrumbs, so I can actually quite literally walk back to where I follow the exact field where I came from. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:57   Yeah, that's that's really good to hear. I think you know, having that contingency is really important. And that breadcrumb that you mentioned is really really paramount because there's so many times where I've you know, gone hiking and then if it wasn't for the breadcrumb I would have like you know, it probably would have taken me a lot longer to get back if not lost altogether so especially in the dark it's it's crazy isn't it in the dark like that mana things you can see the one thing that really scares me in Australia is the snakes because I had a really close encounter with the snakes in in North in Deep River Road in Mitchell falls so that was really scary. It just sneak up on you. Luckily it was like more mature one but let's go back a little bit I guess. I guess excited we just go right off your you call your photography Astro photo bear. Yeah, yeah, where does that come from? You know, like, give us like origin Michael Goh  19:08   okay, this is the bear. Okay, many years ago when when the the bear actually came came up is I used to be a bank manager. And as I'm actually while I can talk for hours about about things and so on, I'm quite open with saying it was over sharing information. The working in the bank, you're always you always concerned about your privacy and everyone else's privacy. So therefore, I did not actually want to have an online profile with just my name as such. So for many years, people didn't even there wasn't actually photos of me on the on public media either. So what happened was the so I was just thinking, Well, you know, when your social media platforms came on You're thinking, hey, what sort of what sort of title Do you want to have. And because I was photographing a lot of Astro stuff, I want to tap Astro in there. And then this beer was actually celebrating 100 years of flight. And it was actually released on I think it was my birthday. And I saw it in the shop and I thought, Okay, well by going back a little bit further as to why it has to come with flight is I used to be a Online World War Two Squadron Leader, Oh, wow. So many years before then as well. So therefore, that's that's I used to have the the hands on throbbing stick, the little tracker system. So you when you move your head did that basically shift the the point of view within them on the monitor as well. And we'd fly World War Two planes all over the place and shoot things. So that was the connection to the Wi Fi, the flight thing was important to me. But there was already an astro bear as a brand. I think it's a clothing brand in the UK or something. So I didn't choose that. So I thought well, I'll just create Astro photo bear. And it just and that's basically how it happened. And so therefore, it wasn't Michael go online or anywhere it was basically astrophotos there. But then the bear basically got more of a more of a brand and I did basically just it just stuck. So at the moment I'm actually doing a little bit of a rebrand but astrophotos is thing for the Astro stuff, but I need because of course when commercial clients or find new for the first time they go where's the spare can you actually need to be a little bit more professional at times as well is basically running your multiple brands. So I actually need to have a Michael the substrate and Michael go or something like that. I actually thought of when going through the rebranding, I thought because I think portrait photographers event photographers tend to be quite extroverts, introverts. landscape photographers tend to be more your introverts and Astro photographers are way out there in the introvert side of things could you out by yourself all the time? So I thought as a brand name for the introvert using my surname it was go away photography Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:23   Yeah, it's really funny because I think I'm a little bit more of an extrovert, but I do get, like, I do love it. Like when I go out there in the middle of nowhere and just, you know, have that quietness, it's, it's like, yeah, it's like a meditation or is just so serene, you know, like, it's as if you're on your own world and the world problem doesn't exist. That's, it's, it's always so cool to hear to be out there. But there is such a funny story to hear about as your photo Berek is when I first came across the your profile, it was the Azure photo where it's like, what is like, and I saw the photo and just like, wow, I want to be able to take photos like that and you have like an inspiration from like, you know, Astro photography side of things, or you kind of just develop that, that style on your own. Michael Goh  23:20   Um, it pretty much all came came by itself. I'm not sure if I don't know if there was any specific form of inspiration and I know it sounds terrible is that I tend to be to shoot frequently with my blinkers on a bit because ultimately, I just, I've got a giant list of I think more than 100 things that I need to photograph on my projects list at the moment of I want to do this this I want this under this sort of situation so of course you see things online and so on every now and then you don't want it to I suppose create too much of a of i mean while while it can help create some ideas and say hey, that's a great idea for me to try out is that I've my brains overflowing with stuff at the moment anyway. So if you actually put too much that's where from every all the other sources in there then it might sound overwhelming it I won't quite say contaminated but it basically if you I've got too many things on the go as it is basically, do you want to to specifically imitate anyone else or create or be inspired by anyone else? I mean, the light the I suppose distant lands I suppose the originally originally when I photographed with the figure with the light and in his hand and so on. That was that was actually because something else failed miserably. Originally, I did actually see some some work by a another photographer, I just can't quite remember which one it was, because I don't want to accidentally credit the wrong photographer. For, for the thing that didn't work of mine. I think it was a photographer that I am connected to. And he did a telephoto photo. So he did like a spinning lights photo. Yeah. I like your Star Trek telephoto thing. And I bet then I thought, wouldn't that be cool to do as a panorama. But then I found that as a panorama, for example, it's a little bit difficult to do that. Because the consistency of the light just won't work as a panorama, because you're telling the lighter answers and be different in every single scene. So the so I suppose, if you think because I also did some book covers back then as well, is that you create a and I did an awful lot of flash work, which actually came from Corey white stuff with the flash photography with the drop collisions. So actually just replaced it with hey, look, if I just hold the light out, and you do the photo from the behind. So it actually puts you in that position as as, like on the cover of a book is that people put themselves into that position basically as as the figure in the in the scene. And that was actually just stuff that I suppose that just came out. And I suppose so in the scheme of things, I guess, book covers, and so on, like just looking at your magazine covers or watching movies, or like saying now that I can watch that. Sorry, I think I just froze from it. I like saying how I can watch movies. Now, strictly speaking, that's research. So in a roundabout sort of way, but you know, I guess there's, we are, I suppose a sum of our experiences. So while I'm not specifically chasing, inspirations, and so on, it just all flows together in there. I guess also, this year, more than more than previous years, inspiration has actually come from client requests. So client requests actually has said, hey, look, you photograph this, or time lapse this and you go, Oh, hang on, but I can do this and this and this. And this, as well, in terms of what other things flow into your head, basically, when clients actually asked you to do things I never would have thought of, of time lapsing some of the objects, which I'm chasing now, before they actually said, Can you do this? I said, Well, I don't know, I haven't done this before. But who knows, let's, let's just see how it goes. And because of the projects, which have been on the go, is that it's made me learn. I mean, I'm definitely not, I'm definitely an amateur still on this side of things, is that I'm actually learning more about astronomy itself, not just photographing the stars, but learning about astronomy, and also learning about Aboriginal astronomy as well. Because the projects of which I've been on have been highly geared towards the Aboriginal astronomy and the cultural aspect of, of, of the sky, not just saying, this is epic. This is actually saying, hey, look that this is a story of the EMU in the sky, or you know, about and the Kinder or the eagle, or any of the other objects and I suppose features, and there's just so much information out there, it's just quite overwhelming at times, you just take one step at a time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:33   Yeah, that's totally I think I'm on the same boat in terms of learning the astronomy, I would love to kind of learn more about it, but it's just so many things in there. But like, you know, that that holding the lie thing that was I really love that and when I saw that it was it's just become an inspiration and it becomes like it goes into the library of things that I could use on different conditions. I particularly love it when there is a lot of trees around you because it will create like a halo kind of thing or a big plane. So, you know, your your work. You do a lot of panoramas and you do crazy panoramas as well, isn't it you do like what 35 mil shot, like Michael Goh  29:20   um, I think the the one that I did was recently was about 180 image panel, Panorama, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:27   angry edu image. Michael Goh  29:28   It took a while. I mean, there was no stacking on that as well as just quite literally photo next to each other. There was actually an interesting story about the panoramas as well, is that the panoramas came around because I was shooting a a crop sensor lens on my full frame cameras. And you know that, hey, the centre of the part of each frame when you're doing of each photo is actually your sharpest part. So, as a crop sensor lens on the camera on the full frame camera is all the lens defects are coming in around the edges. So I thought, well, in the scheme of things, if you do a panorama, you're just using all the central beds. So therefore the image quality will be better, it will look better, basically Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:16   interesting is that when you do a lot of panorama, Michael Goh  30:20   that's that's how I originally started and then just kind of got carried away with that as well. So many things were of astrophotography so do you actually look Where's all my money gone? It's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:34   it's like it's the gears never stop is just the backpacks get heavier and he just noticed you need a bigger backpacks. So okay, coming back to the panorama do you actually like the panorama compared to the normal single image your Michael Goh  30:57   I suppose I like the panorama because the it just seems to look more epic in terms of you like covering the, the whole band of the Milky Way. Cool. I mean, and also, as a larger image is that the stars actually get smaller. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:19   Okay. Michael Goh  31:21   So pardon me. So therefore, it basically creates I suppose more definition in the nebulosity of the sky. And then also with the panoramas as well, pardon me. I guess it just creates a has more in my mind a little bit more possible creativity sides of things to it. I mean, I do do your singles ones. And then I rarely actually stack images. But I will stack from time to time just to say, hey, look, this is what happens if you stack. But I like doing the large panoramas because it just feels more epic basically. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:03   Yeah. The one thing the one reason why I do I wouldn't say one reason, but one of the reason why I do panorama is just I like to put the viewer perspective where I was, it's like, you know, like, look, this is what I was seeing that night, and you know, not many people, especially with astrophotography, right? Have that. have that chance to go out there and see that kind of view. So that was always amazing for me to be able to kind of show people's like, oh, yeah, there was this on that side, there was this on that side. And when I saw your photo, I was like, wow, like you just put that, you know, the Milky Way and having you as the centre subject inside the photo. So Well, I was just like, wow, I gotta take photos like that. So actually, one of the blob tree that I took one of the early one was inspired by that I was like, I saw your photo with you holding the flash, and then the Milky Way right around it. And I was like, I want to take a photo of the Boyle tree. I was like, how do I make this interesting with the Milky Way? And I was like, I could just you don't have the panorama and Kircher on the top. So that was that was that's probably one of my favourite shots I've ever taken. So all right, well, man that was like, yeah, that's, that's great to hear. Michael Goh  33:31   I went on a strange tangent. Yeah, no worries. I know that this is way out of sequence. Because I know that a while ago, you said why astrophotography as well, is that ultimately it it has evolved for me. Okay, because ultimately, it's also gone from apart from the sensation of feeling your your humility against overruns the massive backdrop of the universe is that it's also has helped with I suppose promoting stem because people get interested in in space and the stars at that point in time. So interest, your science, technology, engineering, mathematics and so on, also has massive benefits for things like your, your mental health, because of that feeling or I suppose of yourself against, well, not against but with the universe. And also, it has actually been helping with tourism to areas which ultimately then helps with the mental health the economies of various places. So it has that very evolved in terms of how the, the, I suppose the reason in behind astrophotography as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:39   Well, you know, going back to Australia, especially, I think that I could see how that could be a big impact to the community because, you know, like, for example, right here in the Rockies, the mountains are so stunning that you don't need the you know, the night sky but you know, the back in Australia especially Western Australia, a lot of the places are flat, right? You got this really cool, interesting features that most people will notice, like, you know, the salt lake that you take photo of that, you know, the crack on the on the on the ground and the trees that kind of like, you know, one of your photo with the trees that kind of like just merging towards you that that was, you know, those kinds of things, really, I think those kinds of things would really invite people to come out at night, isn't it? And that's, that's how it kind of helps the tourism industry back in Australia. Is that right? Michael Goh  35:34   Yeah. The, because there's so many places to go see, we're always so focused on A to B, but we don't see everything in between. So that there's all these other things are basically that that's out there. I am missing now to this, though, it's been a number of years since I've gone to see anything matters. Because as he, as you said, Who is pretty flat? I mean, we've got some great skies and fantastic locations, but I think I do need to get out and see some mountains again, as well. Because mountains, epic in themselves, basically, ya know, as long as you're not on the edge of a cliff on a mountain in the middle. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:14   Yeah, totally, totally. It's just totally different, different things to take photo of. And I think what you say that it was totally correct, because I drove around Australia, right. And one of the things that I noticed was that you know exactly what you say we often go to that places that are popular and established. But actually, especially in Western Australia, the places that you that is hard to get to that you know, only that you need four wheel drive, man, it's like once you get there, it's just unbelievable. Sure you're like surrounded by the bushes and the dirts. But it's just unbelievable. It's It's amazing landscape. So, yeah. Well, I'm just looking at the time here. What? I want to hear more, I want to hear about that 100 Adium panorama. How do you take them and why 180 You You know why not just use a 16 millimetre lens and just have probably 14 Max. Michael Goh  37:23   So the 180 image panorama was because I wanted to shoot at 35 mil because I was got I've got this new lens. So I wanted to photograph the whole thing at 35 and do the panorama. So I was shooting on a of course photographing that sort of panorama takes a long time, especially if you want to do things like your 32nd exposures. So I was on tracking mount I was on this. And because of the weight of the camera I wanted I use the sky watcher star adventurer as because of the weight with with the mount with the panorama head with the camera on top. I suppose was that is that a shameless plug because yeah, they sent me the sky, the sky watcher star adventurer too. So the as the panorama I basically wanted to do your longer exposures and it basically it brings out more detail within the stars. Because you're shooting at the longer focal length. I haven't tried doing it at five mil or anything like that or master panorama. A friend of mine has been doing panoramas at your at five mil space. But ultimately, I just wanted the more more detail in the stars, which basically means that the largest does I mean, all the stars look smaller, and the noise looks smaller as well. So he was just wanting to fill up as much as possible. Actually, the reason why is 100 ad is actually because I want to do I actually took enough capture to do a whole 360 Photo Sphere out of it as well. And then it basically you crop it in to say hey, look, this is the usable working space. I think the image ended up being about before cropping. Even after cropping, I think before I shrunk it down to the size I could actually fit in my Lightroom catalogue. It was about 40,000 pixels wide. Or it could have been larger than that as well. But yeah, I just like the greater detail, but I do it manually as well. So apart from being on the on the tracking mount, I actually click it on the panel heads I click it one one step at a time to cover the whole sky I suppose I could actually just put an automated system up and actually just press the button and let the tracking mount do with you know like your get your pounds and signs up. Let them just do the whole While I go to sleep in a corner somewhere, but I just prefer to do it manually. There was a point of time, which I did, I think it was a 64 image panorama, which had clouds rolling through quite rapidly at the same time as the moon was setting. And I actually did think to myself, Hey, I'm a little bit worried that I won't be able to do it in time. Let me just actually have a look is that sorry, I'm just going to go the oops, hang on, don't want to share that one, I want to share this one. So if you see this one here, this one was about a 6060, something image panorama. And you can actually see that the clouds were actually moving quite quickly. And normally, I'd actually just methodically do row after row. But this time, I actually started off at the bottom. By the time I got to here, I said, Hang on, the clouds are moving too quickly. So I actually started doing the top section here to make sure I got the core, and then working backwards and actually just doing like a random path throughout the whole thing. And I was actually quite fortunate that I didn't actually miss any, any panels in it. Because the that was my greatest concern. After putting it all together, it actually stitched almost perfectly after I put it together. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:27   Really, I would have thought because I tried in the past with the, with the clouds in it. Great photo, by the way. But I tried once with the cloud, and it just struggled to stitch it together. Because you know, the clouds moving so quickly. It doesn't. It it failed to create reference plane between one and another. Michael Goh  41:51   The Actually, I'll just share another quick screen. This one was 100 ad image panorama. I did actually try something else was that doing this one as well. But I actually I work hard and being lazy. I decided not to proceed with the experiment I was doing I I did play around with the experiment. And I said no, that's not really working. So you record and you say, Well, I'll try it again in future doing something slightly differently. Next time, basically, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:30   I've been to that place, it's a beautiful place to shoot with the Milky Way there. Michael Goh  42:34   But the I suppose with the panorama stitches and so on as I'm using as my primary panorama software, I'm using PG GUI Pro, that's not a sponsored statement, PG GUI pro is that you can actually mask in with the image, I mean, after it stitches, you can actually mask in what you want to keep in the scene. So therefore, you can say, hey, look, this cloud here it basically you can see the whole cloud in one panel. But then you say well, but when you stitch it across is that it's cut part of it off, but you can then masking the bit that you want to keep from that one panel that's got all the cloud so it makes the stitching process easier then as well I mean, it put it all together but then I just said okay, I want to make sure that this is included and that's excluded for example. And that also helps with the panorama selfies as well. self portraits because if I wasn't using programmes like PG GRI pro it might actually cut half of me off when it's trying to stitch so therefore painting of myself saying I want to include all of me in the in the final output. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:45   Awesome. So like how often you use the the Lightroom panorama stitcher or Lightroom and Photoshop? How often does you know you get success by using them? Or do you always use the pity GUI? Michael Goh  44:04   Um, well since I've got pages going pro now, I think the last time I use Lightroom as a panoramas teacher was probably about five years ago. The I found it was fine for doing things like your single row panoramas and so on. But as soon as I went to your two row panoramas or two, I think the last one was the Carnarvon space centre with the dish bear that I think that one was about five or six rows or I can't quite remember exactly, but the as soon as he wants to do your multi rose it starts struggling quite severely. And it was actually one image that I took a number of years ago which which prompted me to go to the the I suppose PGA golf pro just have a quick look to see if I can I wonder. Because when I, when I first put together in using Lightroom as as a panorama software, it, it looks really bad. Because I get constructive criticism from, from someone I trust quite, quite heavily. Mind you, she doesn't actually give me any constructive criticism anymore. Oh, well, it's a fantastic image. But the but I used to go to quite frequently saying well, what do you think she actually said was something quite seriously wrong with it basically. And the and this particular image, which was actually using a crop sensor lens, this was my first, this was my first multi row row panoramas. And it it didn't actually work at all using Lightroom is that the perspective just didn't work. And this is actually when I tried a different format for your panorama stitching that created this sort of fisheye effect. And, and then it worked. I know it looks very fancy sort of thing. But it actually all those frames in the panel were actually there. I think it was a 13% luminosity moon. And then this one went off in one, I suppose the an award in local newspapers and all all sorts of things around the world. And that one was quite strange, really, because it just looks weird. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:35   I quite liked the perspective on that one. I know because when you do panorama, it it changes your perspective, right? Because you kind of try to flatten a 360 basically or you know, a sphere, I suppose. So then you have that you have that effect on the photo. And I think that that works quite well. And that way kind of frame the Milky Way as well as the you know, whatever. That limestone is a that's in? That's in clinicals clinicals, right? Yeah, yeah. Michael Goh  47:13   So in that photo, we weren't actually going to go either, because it was actually raining probably about two hours before then. So the the only reason why I went was my older brother actually came into Perth and said I want to go shoot photographs. There was a great weather for it. And that's I suppose another thing as well is that sometimes the better photos are actually when the conditions are not perfect. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:37   Yeah, no, that's I totally agree the weird condition gives you a really cool photo but I know like sometimes you have a higher risk of not getting anything. But you also have I suppose that whole whole thing about you know, high res high gain thing, right? Like the more is you you put it out there the more the more gain you might guess. Man, that was awesome. I love talking about this. There's so much that I could learn from you. But coming on to the hour mark and I want to I want you to I want to ask you to give an advice or two for the listener who been wanting to kind of shoot astrophotography or even just to give it a try What what is the you know the easiest way to try without having all this false belief telling you that you can't Michael Goh  48:43   I suppose the I guess that's exactly what you're saying there as well it's not that there is the false belief is that you can photograph the Milky Way now with some phones when people say oh you must have good equipment for example, I was like pointing towards this photo here is it is quite literally it's a compact camera and I just set it down took a photo of the Milky Way the only thing that this camera had was basically manual settings and I think the ISO tipped out that was 3200 and the maximum shutter it could do with 15 seconds it was an F to two camera I think or so. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:31   I think that's I think that is gonna be a lot of push for people out there you know that wait to get their $5,000 camera to shoot out there. Yeah, sorry. Sorry to interrupt you there. Michael Goh  49:44   So apart from just giving it a shot is that ultimately your camera is most likely be able to do something, you just need to go somewhere dark. And when you go somewhere is try a variety of things out. Because while everyone's come With the idea of shooting, I mean, when I started photographing astral photography was very formulaic. If that's even the word, you're saying, if 2.8 30 seconds, ISO 1600, don't go above 1600. And all of a sudden, I mean, sometimes I shoot 12,800 Or even higher, depending on how I feel. But I mean, I generally speaking like going a little bit lower than that and using your tracking mounds, because you do have your signal, signal to noise ratios and so on, you do start losing stuff after a while, but is try a number of things, take a number of images. So you can do things like use stacking later on to experiment with things, it's great as an experimental sort of, of medium, you can experiment with all sorts of things, you don't have to go ultra wide, you can go longer focal length, you will just have a different look. That's all, there's so many things you can experiment with with astrophotography. There was something else that just floated into my head. But of course, we've Astrophotography and many things that floats into your head and back out of your head as well. In terms of, I suppose you're experimenting and trying things out. But yeah, it's just trying many things out, don't just rely get uncomfortable, is probably the best way to say it with the astrophotography do things that you wouldn't normally try to do shoot at ISO 26,000, whatever. Just try to ignore 25,000, whatever, just try things out. You might look at later on saying that's really that's rubbish. But you tried it because most people don't go out. Most Sorry, I'm just waiting for my cameras to start working. Most people don't go out and photograph the astrophotography every day. I know I get paid for it. But most people don't go out and do it every day. So it's get as much data as you can as possible to experiment with things. And that's right, the end, make sure you actually put down the camera later on. I mean, it might be time lapsing or whatever. And just actually enjoy it. Because enjoying where you are. It helps you create, I suppose. Lets you represent what you felt when you were out there as well. It's not just about saying I need a great photo, it's actually saying well, how did how does it make you feel? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:24   Nice, great advice. Especially you know that last bit where you say, you know, how does that make you feel that that is such a great advice there. And yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think that is very powerful. I think you know, when I started Astro photography was quite intimidating with all the settings but shooting stars is the easiest thing you can do because the exposure doesn't change it's always like that, you know, you should sunset it changes every time but the stars always have the same exposure. So once you dialled that in, it's all about experimenting to get that higher quality. So you're you're exactly right there. Well, thanks a lot, Michael, for for joining us here and for those for those people who want to learn more about yourself and see more of your APPIC astrophotography where is the best place for them to go? Michael Goh  53:27   I suppose I'm being I'm terrible with social media, by the way, or even with website updates. And I know I'm about two years behind on my YouTube channel updates at the moment as well. But they is ultimately on Astro photo bear on Instagram and on Facebook. I've also also my website is Astra photo bear.com I've also created Michael go I think it was Michael go.com.au recently as well, because like I said I need to actually sound a little bit more professional but all that does is actually route us through to Astra photo bear.com And I've actually been putting a lot more in the story side of things on social media rather than actually posting up because I've just been so busy. So that's more of but I do need to put up more on your behind the scenes because ultimately that's where I want to get across the people saying this is what I'm actually doing to actually achieve these results to actually do these things. And this is why things are happening. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:27   That's awesome. Thank you very much Michael and yeah for you've seen how many photos you shared I think three photos and they were all epic. So highly recommend you to check out you know some of these photo is just so inspiring. Definitely when I first got into photography, I saw one of Michael photo and I was just like, yeah, I want to learn how to take photo like that. So thanks a lot wiki hunters for tuning in and hopefully you get a lot of gem there and terms of astrophotography. And there was so, so much interesting story from Michael himself. So hopefully you enjoy that. And let us know in the comment below if you do enjoy and what part of it you enjoy the most. And for those YouTubers out there, don't forget to subscribe on down here and then turn on that little notification button. Yeah, that's right. And yeah, that way you will know when I release a new podcast or new video. Well, thank you very much for tuning in. And I will see you next week. All right, well catch you later. Michael. Thanks a lot for being here. Michael Goh  55:39   Thanks for having me.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  In this episode, I had a great conversation with Lost Coordinate. He's a successful commercial photographer in the Canadian Rockies and has travelled extensively to shoot for different brands and tourism board. He shared how he enjoyed photography much more, now that he slow down a bit from that side of his life and do it as a side hobby instead.  You can learn more about him by connecting in Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lostcoordinate If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/u17ujkgeH6Y   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe

Hey Wicked Hunters! I can't believe 2020 is almost gone! Well, it's great to close 2020 with Felix Inden. In this podcast, we chat about how photography becomes Felix's Greatest Obsession. Felix also shared his story behind his love for harsh weather and landscape photography.  For those of you who'd like to know more about Felix Inden, you can find him: https://www.felixinden.com/ https://www.facebook.com/felixindenlandscapephotographer  https://www.instagram.com/felixinden/  If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/2M0oMuAW4Ag  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ------------------ Felix Inden  0:00   No matter when you have free time, you're just thinking about photo photo photo photo. And then every break I had, I was thinking about that. And yes, I think it was the best obsession I ever developed so far. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:22   Hey, wiki hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast. Now today I have someone very exciting. And you know that if you've been tuning into this podcast, our mission is to share our passion and how photography have given us hope, purpose and happiness. To most of us, if not to all of us, photography started off as something fun, something that makes us happy. And you know, one way to another, you know, we go through a lot of expectation, a lot of pressure, and so forth. And for that reason, sometimes we can abandon photography, or we get burned out from photography. So this is the whole purpose of this podcast. Now today, I have someone very exciting to introduce to you. And he is from based in Germany, and he is Feliks Indian. Are you doing Felix? Felix Inden  1:20   Yes. Hi, Stanley. Thanks for having me on the show. I'm fine. Quite smashed after the Christmas time with two kids, which is like exponentially making Christmas more tiring than ever before. If you don't have kids, but I'm fine. Yes. And I'm happy to be here. As good. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:38   How is? How was Christmas back in Germany? I know you in Germany. You're famous with the glue bind and the markets and? Felix Inden  1:47   Yeah, so in a normal year, Christmas has a huge tradition here. With the Christmas markets where people from all over Europe come in big bust groups just to join the Christmas market have a blue line and about wars, or what do I know. But in 2020, things are a little bit different. So there was not a single Christmas market in whole Germany, I think. But of course, in Germany, there's a big Christmas tradition inside of each family. And my own family isn't the craziest about Christmas. But still, we always have the Christmas tree in some decorations. And we actually also sing and stuff like that. It's like gathering the family spending time together in this modern age. That often doesn't happen so much anymore, that the whole family meets up. And this year, it was quite twit tricky with all these COVID regulation rules and stuff. So we split it up a little bit to avoid having too many people at home at the same time. And then for my wife's family, I got some quick tests to make sure we are not infected. And yeah, different Christmas than I ever had before in these 36 years of life that I've had on this planet. But yeah, I mean, it's Christmas. I'm personally not the huge Christmas fan. Like I go through it, I enjoy it. But I'm also quite happy when it's over. And I can get on with my own stuff. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:24   Yeah, that's good to hear. It's good to hear that you're enjoying. And, you know, I think the big thing about Christmas, for me is the family part of things. I think it's, it's a good excuse to kind of come together and, you know, meet with family and so forth. So, um, I'm very excited to have you here. You know, I come across your photo in Instagram, and while I was strolling, and it's just going to your photo, and I just love the contrast on your photo and, you know, just the landscapes that you managed to capture. So tell us a little bit more about yourself maybe a little bit. background on how you get into this photography world. Felix Inden  4:06   Yes, that's quite funny. It's so my girlfriend who's now my wife was into photography way earlier than myself. So my big hobbies in life have been cycling them. So road racing and mountain bike racing, which I was quite obsessive with. After that came a big phase of partying, like party hard while studying. And then I was in Paris with my wife, following her carrying her back and her tripod and she was taking pictures, and I thought it would be okay to stop taking pictures after two or three hours, but no, she went on the whole day. And at some point, I asked her if I can have her old backup camera and started taking pictures myself and realised I found that quite enjoyable. So we spent the next three days shooting together and Then I was already hooked to photography, and then all my free time reading about photography and then also going out to shoot mostly cityscapes. So I didn't afford to go to some exotic location. And the evenings, I stopped going to parties and sat down at home at the computer learning to edit landscape and cityscape pictures. And then things kind of evolved, like the normal way I started using short social media and started communicating with a lot of people who had the same passion, like we're doing right now. And from there, things just slowly kept evolving, somehow. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:45   awesome. So what what really hooked you into photography, like, what makes you really love it. Felix Inden  5:52   So from that moment on, I first, maybe I have to, I have to tell you and everybody that I was really bad in art. So in school, I never had good grades in arts. And I never enjoyed it. Because whenever I tried drawing something, I just instantly saw how bad I am added. So I, yeah, I taught myself I don't have an artsy creativity in me. I always had some writing interest in writing. And I read a lot of books, like, huge amount of books, like I was sitting hiding under my bed. When my parents told me to go sleep, I was hiding there with a flashlight and kept on reading. And this moment, when I picked up the camera from my wife, I realised that I actually was enjoying something that you can at least call art in some way. Like, I think people can argue for years if photography is art, or it isn't. For me it is. And this was like the moment where I felt I'm not totally bad at picturing two dimensional three dimensional scenes into a two dimensional image. And through photography, I even learned how to think three dimensionally, much more than I was able to before. So also in physics, I was bad in school in physics. And now I deeply regret it. Because I think through photography, I learned how interesting all these topics actually are. Yeah. So that's, I don't know if that answers your question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:38   Yeah. So like, it's really interesting how you like that, I actually never heard that kind of how you fall in love with photography, that's really interesting. And I think a lot of people out there kind of think and look at a lot of these photos, you know, there's beautiful photos, they, they kind of thing, they started off, and then they kind of gave up because they feel like, just like yourself, you know, they feel like they don't have that art sight of themselves. And they feel like they cannot do this. So even though they enjoy it, they quickly give it up. So that is really good to hear that from from you, you know, who already basically made it in the photography world, saying that you weren't very good in, you know, in photography, and then you're here you are. So that's amazing. Felix Inden  8:36   It's was around 10 years ago that I found this interest. And then I quickly developed that obsession that you you need to really get into something. It's when you when you feel that no matter when you have free time, you're just thinking about photo photo photo photo. And then every break I had I was thinking about that. And yes, I think it was the best obsession I ever developed so far. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:05   Awesome. Yeah. That's, that's one way to put it. Yeah, so what sort of what sort of feeling you get when you can, like when you capture this, you kind of give us a little bit of background on on the different different aspects of your life and how it's so contrast to your to photography and how we cannot connect back. But tell us a little bit more about the feeling that you get when you you know, when you're able to capture some of these images and present it in a way that is Wow, basically. Felix Inden  9:40   Yeah, so good question. So I think the thing that will probably you've heard that from other photographers, but the experience for me comes first. So I'm not so much about getting that picture, but about going through living that moment in which I'm also taking that picture So I was always driven by, like natural energy like storms, rough weather, rough landscapes, just places where I feel so different than sitting at the cosy home, enjoying the wind, getting blasted with hail, these are those moments that often push my creativity. When I have to force myself to go through something that's not comfortable, that's when I feel the most creative. Now, if you look close to my Instagram, you will see that I have quite a big amount of also typical iconic shots, for which I didn't have to go through any heavy things, I just went there with a photo tour that I was guiding and took that picture again that 100,000 People take. So it's a topic for itself. But when I talk about these experiences, I talk about being out there alone on my own, or with a friend or two at maximum. And then going out in moments where you might make where maybe before you go out, you look at the weather and think we should just skip it and stay home. Those are mostly the sessions where my favourite images take part, if you go if you endure the elements, basically. And that leads to what you were telling about the images that I sometimes show that are quite punchy, or contrasty. Of course, I'm also passionate post producer or Photoshop user, but most of that really comes from the circumstances from the weather while shooting. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:41   yeah, it's, it's, I totally agree. I think some of my best photos are or my favourite photos are the one that are have a lot of memories in it. So I think the photo is kind of just like, like, like a, like an award or like, you know, like a, like a piece of momento that you can remember that experience juicer. Felix Inden  12:05   And as soon as you look at it, even after five years, you will be in that moment, you just cannot forget it, it triggers all the memories. And that's also what I really love about photography. Yeah, I liked that about photography, too, when I was just a tourist taking crappy tourist shots. 20 years ago in South America, I still look at these images and remember everything like it was yesterday. But of course, I curse myself for not having taken a good image, a working landscape photograph so to say. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:40   So you do you find that you want to go back to a lot of those places that you've been before you're into photography and wanting to take, retake them all or Felix Inden  12:52   definitely, definitely actually wanted to do some of that this year. Something happened and I had to cancel those trips. So I lived in Chile, with my parents from my 10th to my 16th year of age. So I visited insanely nice places in Chile, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia all around. So there's a huge amount of super photogenic places that I can remember from my childhood or from a youth where I have to return to take pictures, not tourists, the pioneer or El Chalten that everybody knows with the Fitzroy, the cuernos, the pine, all these iconic mountains, but there's amazing landscapes that just require you to go to areas that few people know about. And I would totally love to go there. And to go there as a landscape photographer and try to put my spin on these places that not so many people know about. Yeah, but you know, life isn't that easy. So now I'm a father of two kids, I have to sustain the family somehow too. So I cannot just say I'm gonna go there for three or four months and return home once I have images that make me happy. So I always have to consider closely how I spent my time when I go to some faraway place. Normally I don't go longer than two and a half ish weeks, maybe a maximum three. And for some of these places, you would normally need an open end trip where you just go and then stay there for maybe three to four month can happen that you that you're done after two weeks, but normally it will take quite some time to to arrange everything. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:48   Oh, that's that's crazy. Yeah. It's it sounds it sounds like it sounds like fun though. Like, I think when I got into photography from travelling, so I used to travel and what I used to do back then is just take off places, right? I just go, go go to Eiffel tower, tower, take photo, go home, go next one take photo go home. And that's what I find with photography, I find actually to slow things down and actually go deeper. So it's really cool that, you know, you want to go to places that is not that everyone knows and actually go to the more unbeaten path and a unique kind of perspective. Yes, Felix Inden  15:28   that that's, that's kind of, it's a little bit like an interior thing. Because the last two to three years, I've spent them mostly guiding people at very famous places, which is always great fun. And you can make sure that everybody gets some amazing shots, which is maybe your job during one of these tours. But from your from my personal point of view, as an artist, maybe I can say that this didn't exactly make my images better. So I have a huge collection of images that are successfully usable in social media. Because as you might know, the popular stuff is what gets you the views and everything. But from the creative point of view, it's not what will bring you forward if you do it for years and years. So I am that's my intent. My secret plan is to break that up a little bit. For I listened to your podcast with Paul, this guy. He's like, extremely inspiring to me. He's just such a such a good guy. And he has like this unique vision on his own photography. And I think that's also in part because he doesn't spend too much time getting these photo tours to famous places. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:51   Yeah, it's I think it's, it's, it's funny, because, you know, most of the guests that I've talked to, I think I would say all of the guests that I've talked to have that very have the same kind of take on, you know, about creating something one that is meaningful to ourselves. So I see that a lot of your photo or you have the love for ice and the winter scene as well. Definitely, yeah. So what brings that love, like, you know, what, why the winter? Why, you know, this cold, harsh places? Felix Inden  17:28   I don't know, maybe because in the places where I spent most of my life, I don't have any real winter. It's like here today it's, yeah, it's the end of December. Without climate change, we would have snow outside cold weather. Now we have a big storm going on outside. So it's really rough weather, but it's still plus five degrees. And it's just rain, rain rain. And I missed these real winter environments. And they just I don't know why but they kicked my creativity of and from the beginning of my landscape photography. The first time I saw the Northern Lights also gave me a big inspiration boost. That's something I constantly miss here too. So I find it incredibly photogenic to have snow that reflects the light and the low standing sun or even the moonlight. And then ice features as a foreground. It's just quite cool. So when I look at Paul's images, I'm always like, think that's heaven in Canada. With all the crazy icy stuff he has around it or YouTube, basically. Yeah, it's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:41   it's pretty crazy. And yeah, it's, you're right. It's it is definitely, like, out of the world a lot. A lot. I mean, I'm from Australia, and a lot of the stuff I see here I just like I couldn't believe it's real. I thought it was you know, it was it was just like, What is this thing is real, like, people actually skate on the lake is like, I thought that's how people like, drown and stuff. I was like, yeah, that's that's that's fine. Yeah, how, how different things are, but that's, that's really cool. Felix Inden  19:10   How do you feel as an Australian in Canada in this very cold landscape? Well, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:17   it's really interesting. Um, I like the cold better than the hot like, honestly, like when I'm back home. I think I have really high metabolism. So like, when I'm back home, even if I don't do anything because it's so humid and hot. I would just like start sweating and I really hate that I actually have allergic reaction to to the sweat. So if I would have need to like shower twice a day, if not more, to kind of get that like sweat off my body or otherwise I started getting like this reaction on my skin. And it's funny because like, I actually could withstand the cold a lot better than most people, even those people that have been living here in Canada or you know, in Europe where they get the fourth. Always travelling with three people from Germany and one people from France, in Australia. And you know the desert get a little bit cold, obviously not as cold as here, but I'll be honest, short and like, you know, on a t shirt and that'd be like, bundling others like, what are you doing? Like, I don't know, it's okay. So, okay, yeah, Felix Inden  20:28   it's fun to hear because you clearly come from quite hot place. You live now at a quite cold place. But to to summarise this little bit. I just love seasons, I love to see how seasons change. And here where I live. So of course, we have places with harsh winter in Germany too. But those are in the mountains, not here in the river deltas. So here I have a nice spring with flowers. So you go out and you realise okay, it's spring. Then you go out in summer, and it will be hot and quite humid. Also, you realise it's summer and autumn looks beautiful with all the leaves and foggy weather and everything but the winter, you just go out and think. So this is no winter, this just grey weather. It little, very little sunlight and lots of rain. It's just boring. So that's what I love to escape to the north of Europe, especially Norway. during wintertime, yes. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:32   Yeah, no, that's, that's very true. I actually, like the I mean, this place are so beautiful, isn't it not not only the snow, but also the landscape. So it's definitely been on my bucket list as well. Where Where do you get your inspiration for is that like, you know, is there anyone that you can have that really inspire you to to get some of this photo or you know, to basically drive your your creativity in the TOG photography as an art? Felix Inden  22:03   Yes, there's a bazillion of people that keep inspiring me, some through their imagery, some through their personalities, some through that spirit, or the combination of it all. But I also get inspired by movies quite a lot or series. It's kind of cliche, but for example, Game of Thrones, or Vikings or these series. I think just their directors of photography maybe have a similar way of thinking that I have, or at least they have a similar style of things they like. So whenever I watched those series in TV, I instantly feel inspired again. And then especially Game of Thrones, I keep watching how they set the light on, on set. So then you can try to replicate that in real life. Like look for situations where the sun comes from a certain angle, and stuff like that. But one of my biggest inspirations has been Steven, clue. Clow K L oh, he's a friend from Norway, who lives very close to Lofoten and we started photography, I think we started at the same time. But then I could watch him skyrocket very quickly with his photography, because he was living so close to all these so photogenic places where you can, as a beginner, it's gold if you have a super photogenic place around because no matter what you want to learn, you will have the prime locations to do that. I didn't have that I was shooting mostly in my city, or close to the city. So that allowed me to learn all the techniques that I wanted to learn. And to understand how depth works in an image. You don't need an epic peak in the background and a frozen lake in the foreground. You can learn that at the plaza of your local town. So you put something in the foreground, even if it's just a statue or I don't know, even a brick wall would work to learn how the the how the dynamic of the image changes. But I think having this guy still posting all these images inspired me to keep on going myself to and from there on. I think it's important to just surround yourself with people that inspire you. It's different to difficult to put it into words to say this inspires me it's just more like a mindset. And also, I know your podcast talks about these things more than others. I've also been demotivated when I couldn't travel and have been demotivated when I see my images all look the same. But then I think photography has the power of make you break out from all those thoughts if you if you allow it. And yeah, so some of the best inspiration settings for me is just going out, no matter if with a camera or without go out of your place where you live and walk around for one or two hours. And I bet there will be some inspiring thoughts coming all by themselves. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:30   That's awesome. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think that's, it's really good for a lot of the listeners out there to hear that. And, you know, I think you're right, I think most a lot of people are really having a hard time sometimes with all the stuff that's going on. And it feels like, you know, their creativity is gone. But it's actually it's still there. So I think that's a really good advice to just go out there. And then just, you know, just don't set any expectation for yourself. Just go out there and see what you get. Yeah, that's very cool. Like, so you were you're talking about? I kind of lost I lost my train of thought this is like so in tune with what you say there is so cool. Yeah, so what what, what would be some of your most favourite moments in photography? Like, it's something that like, probably you, you know, until this day, you go like, yeah, that was probably one of the coolest moment of experience. Felix Inden  26:34   I think. It's, there's like many like that. Let me think so I think one of the really coolest moments was when I saw my first aurora borealis or the northern lights for the first time, I, I thought, Wow, this looks insane. I need to take pictures of this. And then I realised I wasn't able to. So the pictures I was taking were crap. They didn't look like the way I wanted them to look. That's because I had no idea about how to shoot the northern lights and everything like that. So I just stopped taking pictures and enjoyed those lights and returned a year later, with a much bigger skill set. I knew how to approach that. And then I took pictures that I saw on the back of my screen, the camera screen. And I was like, that's how it should look like this setup was like the feeling of accomplishment for myself, was a big motivation. And that's one of those moments then I also had some trouble some hikes where I doubted I would even reach the point that I wanted. When I was starting to hike, I thought this will never work. Then if you make it through, if you take a picture that you really love yourself. And I don't love many of my shots. I gotta say I'm super critical, super nitpicky with my own work. Those few images that I really liked myself often have like some form of challenge that I had to go through. And those are then also my favourite moments. But I think it was ilaya locality who said it like What is your favourite moment in photography? The next one I'm going to have, you know, so I don't want to think too much about the past. I just hope to get more nice moments through photography as soon as possible. When it's possible again. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:38   Yeah, that's, that's really cool. I think it's, that's very true. I think, you know, like, maybe looking forward is probably one of the best thing we can do, especially when we kind of, you know, in this situation and you're gonna lose motivation, I think looking forward, you know, being having that hope is really, really important. I remember now what I was gonna ask you, you know, you're talking about your friend in Norway and how he is in a prime location or photography. And, you know, like, I mean, I kind of live where, you know, the, like, the jewel of Canada at the moment, right? And what I find is that I think sometimes because it's so beautiful. We get quite lazy because you know, it doesn't matter where you shoot it's almost impossible to take a photo that is horrible, right? So almost some kind it's kind of always kind of good. Do you think what are your What are your thoughts on this? In terms of improving your photography will it actually help you to be in a prime location because there is a lot of beautiful thing around it? Or will it actually work the other way? Because you can just start pointing and shooting at everything because it's just so beautiful, right? Felix Inden  30:09   Yeah, I think it's, let me think it's maybe two sides of a metal with with this reply. So in the beginning, as a beginner, it definitely will help. That's my opinion, because what helps you in the beginning is satisfaction and the feeling of success for yourself. And if you're a beginner, that success will be to take a picture that you really like. And as we are super extroverted, that was wrong. So I'm not extroverted, but the way we show our images to the whole world is some form of weird extrovert ism. So if you are beginning with photography, and you have a cool shot to show your friends, every few days, you will be more motivated to get more of those pictures than somebody who has to wait for two years until he can go to some of those places where he may be is dreaming of going. So, but they will be coming to the point where you may be where this being at a spectacular place will not be doing you any service anymore, because then it goes about what is photography giving you? Is the kick still coming? Like, are you still excited about photography, if you're not, you can be I don't know, you can live in Iceland and still get bored by landscape photography. But if you still have that passion, and it gets stronger and stronger and stronger than I think you will profit from such a place because it will keep you going. Now, there's a huge amount of people who don't live at such places, and they develop over the years and get very good at photography. It's not needed to live at such a place to to be a good photographer. Absolutely not. But I think it can be beneficial. Yes. Yeah, I think you'll surely also know many people who start photography, they develop a really nice style, and suddenly they stop that the name disappears from your online list of people whose work you keep seeing. And that's mainly because they got bored of photography, and picked up another hobby. But yeah, I don't know, when I go out here into my local forests, I also get very inspired. And the challenge to get a picture that satisfies me is much higher than in Lofoten Islands, where you can put your camera wherever you want and take a picture that will be at least like a three out of 10 You can't go lower because the landscape is so beautiful. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:07   Yeah, that's very true. Do you find that when you do that, you know, you find that when you go on your, on your local florists where it's more challenging to you know, grab a photo that satisfy you. But when you actually get it, do you find it to be more fulfilling compared to those photos that are, you know, arguably easier to get right? Felix Inden  33:33   Yeah, I think so too. I think so definitely also because maybe also in your place like I've never been there. But I guess to get unique pictures you need to do quite some hiking climbing or you need to be super lucky with the conditions at an easy place. Like this is how you can set yourself apart from other people it's either getting super unique conditions at the easy places, or putting in a lot of effort to going far away from the crowds and in a place that's so mountainous if that's an English word, like if you have so many mountains like where you live, you will have to go hiking and climbing quite a lot to get away from the crowds I guess. So for me here I tried finding other landscape photographers in this area but I haven't found any at the moment so if I find a nice tree that like the chance is very high that's not been taking photographs ever before. And this is also somehow it's satisfying to to know that I'm taking a picture that maybe is unique to myself like those pictures never create much interest online, but it's more about your, your inner self and what motivates your so these pictures are generally the ones that I print for myself, or that I give as a gift to my mom or whatever. Because she's from the same area. And then you if you show these images to people that also live in the same area as you, they will ask you Oh, where's that? Where's that? That's where you walk every day. But you don't, you don't see it, like I see it when the light is right. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:30   Yeah, that's, that's, that's great to hear. For you to hear that. I think as, as a human being, it's very natural for us to take it take things for granted that are easy to get for us. And you know, and that's why one of one of my mission, when I first kind of left my full time job for photography was to actually explore my own backyard, which was Indonesia, and Australia, actually drove around the continent of Australia, which was pretty, pretty cool. Like, yeah. But yeah, that's, that's really cool in take on that. And I think, you know, the listeners out there should take that as an inspiration where, you know, even if you're in a place where you think it's not a very good place to put that as a question mark, because I feel like everywhere you go, there's always a good place to take photos, just what type of photography you're gonna get. So that kind of brings me a question. Why landscape photography? You know, you kind of start in Europe, which has a really strong kind of urban and as well as street photography, environment, how do you actually fall in love with landscape? Felix Inden  36:45   This was funny, the, I went to Norway the first time with my wife, before I even had this moment in Paris that I told you about. So, and with my parents, I travelled to incredibly beautiful places in South America. So I had seen a fair amount of beautiful places in nature, before I was interested in photography. And then when I realised that photography is super fun, instantly, I wanted to go to these places in nature and take pictures of them. Like, as I've been always passionate for nature, and landscapes just clicked together very nicely. And I also went to Dubai last year to shoot cityscapes. And with some email trickery. And some, I don't know, some moves I made, I got to some pretty cool rooftops that are not accessible. And I have all these images, and I look at them, and I don't edit them, and like they don't give me that adrenaline kick. But when I look at the landscape images, that's what kicks in drives for inspiration. So it's, it comes down to personal likes, I definitely learned almost everything I know, from the basics of photography, while shooting cityscapes and street. But then, when I was able to afford to go to beautiful nature, it was the purpose of photography, that is more expensive than going to some place to chill out. Because you will need a rental car and this and that and what you know, all that stuff. But nature. And photography was what clicked for me and this quite early. So I knew I don't want to spend time shooting portraits. I don't want to walk around the city and take street candidates or how it's called, I just want to go somewhere nice. In my preference, rough and dramatic landscape and take pictures there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:58   Yeah, that's, that's cool. That's probably like, no, no, no, many people wanted to do that. As I know, most people wanted to go out and during a nice blue blue sky, instead of this rough condition that is blowing. You tried to stand and you tried to survive. Yeah. That's amazing. So going back to what you kind of started off in the beginning. What are your thoughts in photography? Do you think it's an art? Or do you think it's, it's not and why? Felix Inden  39:32   I think it's both art and no art. So because obviously photography is a medium. And a camera has a tool that you can use for many things. You can take your camera and take a picture of a contract, and then you pretty much scanned the contract. I wouldn't call that art. And then the comes the moment where you as an artist, walk out with your camera and take pictures yours. Not every picture will be what people define as art. But I think the activity that you are doing with your camera camera is still something artsy. It just depends what you create in the end. Like, if you shoot commercial architecture that I've done, I wouldn't call that artsy. But if you look at the work of some of the most popular architecture photographers worldwide, they most likely have something artsy in their architecture, photography, because that sets them apart from the rest. And that's why they became so popular. Like at the moment, I don't have any name present, but there's certainly some that take artsy architecture photography commercially. Now, there are nature photographers that are generally more artsy than we typical landscape photographers. We often or I also guilty of this, I often follow some form of formula that leads me to an effective picture. I don't know, following a formula, it's really artsy anymore. There's just so many. I just can never decide. So for me, it's a form of art. Not every picture that I take is art. Definitely not. But some of them are. I can never decide what to think about this, I don't know, for me, personally, doesn't really matter to me, I will let others decide if they see me as an artist or not. Yes, it's weird to think about it. Because, of course, it's so easy to reproduce, reproduce everything that we do. And a painter is certainly more perceivable as art than photographer. But I know so many people that I admire that are super artsy in their photography. And those are what inspire me nowadays. So I hope to, to get to a point where people look at my stuff and think that's art. I would be happy then. Cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:17   So well, just wrapping up to the hour mark here. One last question that I usually ask all my guests, you know, what can you share with the listener? One advice that you think is that you think is very important to other photographers, or artists in photography out there, on, you know, either how to, you know how to start or how to get inspired in photography, or even, you know, how to master photography, it's, you know, what are your best advice that you have learned throughout your career in photography that you feel like other photographers should know? Felix Inden  43:03   Yeah, so I think in the beginning, let's make one for beginner and one for more advanced. As a beginner, you should just listen to your inner voice. And don't listen to social media. Don't be don't let social media be your main advisor. Because this can trigger you the wrong way to pursue a happy life as a photographer, you know what I'm talking about? Like? There's so many things that can happen once you focus too much on social media. And if you do that, because you have to promote your products to make a living, that's fine. It's your job. But if you're just starting out as a hobby amateur photographer, forget about that and listen to yourself. You will notice what inspires you and you will know what was right and what was wrong. You don't need to count the likes that you picture got to make your decision for a way to pursue. That's one point. And the next one would be just practice. So there's a good portrait photographer and editor Joelle Grimes and I think I saw him many years ago on Photokina. And he was saying on stage, hard work will outperform talent every single day of the week. And I don't know if I agree 100% But 99.9 I agree. If you want to learn and improve, you need to do things. You can only consume tutorials and read books for a certain part but that will not make you improve. If you don't grab your camera, go out somewhere and try practice photography. Also, I know quite a mount of quite a big amount of people sit at home thinking, Yeah, but I cannot go to place x or place y. So I cannot advance, wrong way of thinking, no matter where you live, if you have a camera, you will profit from just going out. And even if the pictures are taken on a junkyard, you can use that junkyard to learn the basics of photography. And once you make it to one of those places that you want to take pictures of, you will be prepared and take much better pictures than if you spent the last year just dreaming about it without touching the camera. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:39   Awesome. Thanks a lot for the advice. I hope the listeners out there gonna find this inspiring, because there's some good advice there. Going back to kind of what you say, around the social media, I think the social media have a lot of have a lot of responsibility to a lot of the burnouts out there. And I kind of feel that myself mentally well, I feel like you you kind of have that expectation, right? And that you have to create that photo and you're no longer taking photo for yourself. And that kind of take away the fun of photography. You know, you say that to your a lot earlier today. You know, the photo that you're most proud of? Are the photo that actually mean something to you. So exactly. That's a really good advice to share. And I think going back to what you were saying earlier, as well, I just want to point out that you know, what you say about your friend in Norway and how we compare these two? Is it good or bad to be in a place that are more photogenic is that just go out there and find a little bit of result. I think that's a you know, going back to what you say it's really good way to get that moment to him in your photography. So that is definitely one thing that he should consider and think about if he just started so perfect. That's, that's, that's amazing. Thanks a lot for sharing that. Felix and yeah, look, it's been fun. And I had a lot of fun listening to you. Very inspiring, as well to hear some of your perspective and your point of view. For the listeners out there who you know, want to hear more about you and also want to see more of your photos, your your beautiful landscapes and all that stuff. What is the best way to find you and connect with you? Felix Inden  47:37   Yes, so I'm Felix in them. i n d n is my afternoon. If you Google that you will find all my homepage Felix in.com or IG Instagram slash Felix in so that way you can find everything about me. And I encourage I would like it, if you check out my homepage, there will be a magic little pop up coming telling you to subscribe to my newsletter. And this is something quite new to me. So I haven't been working much on a newsletter subscription list. But I started now and I'm just finishing my own little ebook about how to improve your landscape photography that you'll get if you subscribe to my newsletter. And all this is done by many. But I put a lot of thought into this little ebook and just go check it out or have a look at my pictures on Instagram. You can also DM me I go through every message that I get and enjoy communicating with people. Then I also hope that my English was understandable. In this podcast like because I'm a German. I guess I have some form of accent in there. But yeah, I enjoy to be here to talk with you. Stanley was really good. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:58   Fantastic. Yeah, well, we'll put the link on description below. So if you're interested to subscribe, go to the homepage. But also, Felix is really good in social media at socialising, I suppose. Social media. Yeah, he's, he's quite enjoyable to follow and to learn from so highly encourage you to Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, so well. Thanks a lot for thanks for your time. And thanks a lot for setting setting aside some of your time especially with the BC kids and the holiday season. But yeah, look, we Qantas Thank you very much for tuning in. And it's been very it's been a lot of fun talking to Felix here and let us know in the comment below what are some of the best, you know, insights that are Felix have shared with us and For those of you who join us in YouTube, don't forget to subscribe. You got the subscribe button down here and then hit that notification button so that you get notified next time I upload the photo. But hopefully you guys have the rest of 2020. And I mean, we're, we are literally Yeah, we're recording at the last week of 2020. So I will see you guys in 2021. Well, Felix, thank you very much for being here. And thank you very much for all of your insights, as well as your wisdom. And hopefully you have the rest. Good rest of 2020 and an amazing 2021 Felix Inden  50:51   Yesterday, thanks again for having me. And I wish you and everybody who listens this happy new year. Let's just all sit tight. We're going to back we're going to see each other on the flip side Sunday. Stay safe everyone. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:09   And yet everyone and I'll see you guys next week. I mean next year  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another episode The Art of Photography Podcast. Today you'll here conversation I had with Emeric behind 9 years of his journey as a timelapse photographer. He shared how he got started and fell in love with timelapse photography, but most of all how managed to get to where he is right now working with world's leading brand within 7 years doing it professionally.  For you who want to learn more about Emeric you can go to: https://www.emerictimelapse.com/ https://www.facebook.com/EmericTimelapse https://www.instagram.com/emerictimelapse/ If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/AtpeYlMWPfw Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ------------------- Emeric Time Lapse  0:00   And at some point, the sun shining through the clouds and, you know, lit up the entire skyline. But since you know we're facing east, you can see the sunset in the buildings. So it's a pretty interesting concept. And then, few minutes later the clouds starting to turn pink. I was like, oh my god, it's like perfect timing so, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:33   you know, this podcast if you already been tuning in, you know, it's it's, it's more about how we share our passion as photographers and creatives. And in this podcast as someone very excited to introduce to you very different in terms of photography world. So I actually met him or come across his profile in social media, and about his score. So I'm excited to go through that. But it's Emmerich and he is a master of time lapse photography. Hamrick. How're you doing? Emeric Time Lapse  1:10   He's totally doing great. What about you? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:12   Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad. Just, I mean, I'm so happy to have you here today. having me? Yeah, I'm so glad to have you on board. I mean, you know, I just met you. Well, just first time I talked to you, I suppose. That's what I was trying to say. I just hit you up, Instagram and you reply, and then you say, yeah, so I was really, Emeric Time Lapse  1:35   the first time we talked was like, five days ago, right? Like this. And you asked me for the podcast. I was like, yeah, it's exciting. That's awesome. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:46   I mean, like, you know, it's, I guess that's the cool thing about the social media nowadays, you get to meet new people that you know, in the other side of the world, so that's perfectly what you've been up to a house. You know, how's 2020 been for you? Emeric Time Lapse  2:04   It's been pretty hectic. I have to say. No, yeah, I was actually living in Atlanta at the being of the year. So my story is kind of crazy. But I'm going to try to, you know, not talk for too long. So I was living in LA for seven years. At the end of 2018. I moved to Atlanta. And for a year 2018 2020, I was living in Atlanta, I just hated it. I was I was missing LA. I was like, I'd like to another great time. At the end of 20, I moved back to LA. And it was a you know, another big trip where I had to move all my furniture from coast to coast. Drive for 30 hours alone. It was a pretty pretty long, but um, anyway, yeah, I'm back here in LA. And even was the situation right now. I'm pretty happy to be back. Yeah, finally settling. That's fine. I'm pregnant, as you can see. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:03   Yeah, it looks it looks good. That's, that's awesome to hear. I'm glad you you know, it's I think it's always good to be able to find your happy place. And I heard that you got your visa as a top notch photographer. So Congratulation. Thank you. Appreciate that. So So tell us a bit more about your background, like you say that you are living in Atlanta, and then you can move to Los Angeles, but where you actually from and you know, what makes you come to America or you know, to settle in Los Angeles? And what makes Los Angeles. So your your happy place basically? Emeric Time Lapse  3:42   That's a good question. So I'm actually from France. So I was born in France. But for say, I took both languages. And so until I was 21, I was living in a medium town called Andre in France. It's like ours from Paris. And I went actually went to college in France to and shortly after. graduating, I actually always wanted to come to America for some reason, like the American dream, what you see in the movies, it's big. It's like you can make money, so many opportunities, all this and I wanted to try it out. Just wanted to see only come here, I didn't know where exactly. At first, I really I was a big fan of New York. And then LA was kind of the back of my mind as well. So shortly after college, I was sending emails to companies. I was finding on Craigslist. It was like, Okay, I do video editing. I'm gonna go to Craigslist and try to see if I can find companies offering you know, internship or maybe small jobs, to see if they agree to work with. And actually one company accepted, you know, to to work with me. So I worked a little bit for them in France and they say okay, Come here for a few months. So I came to LA actually near La was a j one visa. So it was this student visa for people who just graduated. So it was for like, you know, experience the professional work in the US. The experience, I think also it's called anyway, so I started now like this just as an intern in video editing. And then you know, I climb the ladder, we can say this started from the bottom now we're here. And year after year, year after year, I got like new visa. And like recently, I have an O one visa, which is a visa for artists people for people talented in, in their field. That's how they call it. So it's people in the film industry photography. Even like athletes, all of this, it's pretty wide, but it's people who are pretty good in what they're doing. So I was pretty happy to get my own visa for video editing and time lapse photography. This year, they added the time lapse photographer title in the visa, so I got pretty excited. Finally. So yeah, I was living in LA, I started I moved from France to Los Angeles in 2013. I lived in LA for seven years until 2019, which is six, six and a half years. And I was coming titled la so last year I moved to Atlanta on the East Coast. And I was actually sorry, I talk a lot. I was supposed to move to New York. So I drove between LA and New York. I didn't want to move to New York. So I moved to Atlanta because I'd love to it was cheaper. I could keep my car and you know, I want to try it. It's kind of centralised. There is Miami Chicago not too far. So I tried to plan it out for a year just didn't like it decided to come back. Because I feel comfortable in LA you know, I feel like I have some I have a bigger network. I have people around. The weather is nice. I know the city really well. You know, I'm someone who is kind of love anxiety sometimes. So if I feel comfortable in a CD, I feel like it's gonna help a lot. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:16   Yeah, for sure. Emeric Time Lapse  7:18   Finding in Atlanta Title I was every time I was going out and especially because you know, you have like expensive gear. So I need to know the area I need to feel comfortable in place where I'm shooting or it's just not going to work. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:33   You could argue LA is not the safest as hell. Emeric Time Lapse  7:36   I know the area to avoid areas not to go that's why I should allow from Griffith Park Santa Monica some area in downtown where you're fine. And there's also most people I know more people in LA photographers, we need to go shoot with me so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:54   it's I actually used to live in LA. That really Yeah, I live in in Korea, Thailand, and I went to Mark Twain Middle School right in Venice Beach. I used to skip school all the time to skate in Venice Beach. I love that place. But you watch this or hear this stay in school, right? Yeah, I love LA actually, I've been I've been meaning to come out. I was gonna come back this year. I was gonna go storm chasing in this storm alley or something like that. And then yeah, I was gonna make it east coast. But then this can Emeric Time Lapse  8:30   the tornado Valley. Yeah, that's, that's my that's my bucket list. That's definitely my list, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:36   man. It's, it's amazing. They're cool. Like, um, yeah, thanks for sharing that. For those listeners who kind of like, don't know what time lapse photography is. You're like, well, I guess time lapse and Hyperlapse gets theirs to to kind of like intertwined. If you want to like, tell us a little bit more about what it is? Emeric Time Lapse  8:57   Sure. Yeah, it's pretty remote. I'm always having a hard time answering this question. But the time zone Hyperlapse is a time lapse that moves in space. So that's pretty simple. A time lapse is a time lapse or Hyperlapse is a time lapse that moves. So time lapse is it's a sequence of images that you're going to take with a specific interval. And then when you put all these images to regular, you know, format video format, like 2430 frames per second is going to make your scene look like everything is going faster than real time. So this time that you know time lapses you know, how do you explain that it's it's like you take a two hour video and if you speed up this video to five minutes, for example, everything's gonna look faster, but to grid better time lapse, cheaper price, better quality, we take a sequence of images with a specific interval and then we have like programmes to like kind of create the video from the image sequence And yeah, I think it's amazing to see day to night transition in like 20 seconds. The clouds floating above a city skyline or landscape or changing like traffic is so many awesome subject for time lapse photography, which makes it really exciting. It's a very different than still photography, because you need to think how is how's your scene gonna look like in 1020 minutes or maybe two hours? Is it worth shooting a time lapse of this? Do you have like constant motion and Zimbra thing moving? Is it a good subject for time now Salafi? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:39   Yeah, is that in the hyperlapse? Sorry, yeah, keep going. Emeric Time Lapse  10:44   And Hyperlapse is a time lapse. But between every time you take a picture, you can move the tripod a little bit the camera a little bit, and it's going to create, like a kind of 3d perspective around your subject. It's pretty exciting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:58   So do you actually do Hyperlapse manually by moving your tripod. Emeric Time Lapse  11:06   So yeah, you have different way of doing Hyperlapse videos, you can do handheld, but you're limited, you know, as your shutter speed. I always use a tripod. Yeah, so I do a tripod, I take a picture and move the tripod, maybe a foot or so. And then you aim the camera at your anchor point, you have to select an anchor point or the perspective is going to change if you move the camera. So if you use the guideline on your camera, you set an anchor point. And it's pretty easy. We still have to stabilise the clip after but having the anchor point is very important to get something that looks real, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:40   that's crazy. Yeah, cuz like I know that. More people nowadays start using doing Hyperlapse using the gimbal. And connect this with emotion, time lapse on like you say a faster shutter speed. So, but to do it. I know like I've seen kind of tutorials on how to do that, man, it's, it's less, it's a lot of effort to do that. Emeric Time Lapse  12:03   It is time consuming. For sure. Yeah, it takes a long time, especially if you do a tripod where you really have to move the tripod every time. So obviously, your interval is going to be longer than a regular time lapse because you need the time. But the effect you get at the end is amazing. Yeah, I should force myself more Hyperlapse videos, because it's really cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:27   That's really cool. Yeah, this might be just what I need to push me to start doing Hyperlapse but so far, I haven't had the patience to do it. Is that you cannot touch base a little bit on that. But tell us a little bit why why time lapse photography one why not just still photography, what makes you jump into that sort of genre. Emeric Time Lapse  12:53   The funny thing is, I started photography by shooting time lapse. Oh, like I never actually I've never ever shot still photography for fun. I really went straight from like doing some fun videos with my family and friends to time. That was photography. I didn't do really still photography and I'm thinking I'm pretty bad at still photography. Yeah, I do sometimes do still photography for fun. But yeah, I went straight to time lapse. And I know that there's something very special about time lapse photography, it's mixing, first of all photography and video making, you know, there's no other art form that mixes both video and photography, which is pretty exciting because you get a video from photos from pictures. So I really love the aspect of you know, mixing two different art forms into one. And I really just, I get super excited every time I come back home and and watch you know the products watch the time lapse live for the first time. Enter time lapse. Yeah, I think it's it's exciting. And it's travelling to new places and staring at amazing views for hours. I've actually shut timelapses was still photographers. And obviously still photographers don't like staying in one place for four hours. Like they take they take their pictures and like okay, I'm good. I'm done. Let's go to the next locations. And like, I have only one time lapse like I can't believe right now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:29   I got the second. Yeah, exactly. So Emeric Time Lapse  14:33   it's a very different world than still photography. And yeah, I just I'm getting it's exciting. I think it's it's like seeing the world turn in a way. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:45   I think one thing that really makes me excited about how much it's just that transformation from one to another interesting thing. And I suppose like, you know, people can argue Oh, why not just take video right? Well A video is very difficult to see that transformation in such a long period so that you don't actually see that much transformation. So, I really love that. Especially day to night. That's something that I really been wanting to do. I can I try a little bit on that, but I want to do like a proper date and I what I've done is kind of just like from two hours. It's quite incredible to see. And, look, I know how much commitment it takes to to to do this to make this short food he has hers right? How long does usually stay out there to have your time lapse like at a time Emeric Time Lapse  15:44   usually so what I've been doing a lot recently is like you just said I'm a big data nice fan. So like at a point where maybe like a few months back had to tell my son to force myself to shoot something else and I'm so like, Okay, I should always do tonight because it's exciting. It's challenging, you know, and yeah, like you say seeing the transition from day to night is exciting. So now when I go shoot my time lapses I just usually go a couple hours before sunset. I shoot a few few time lapses during the day a couple day tonight's a few night shots. And if I feel like it I go to different spots but usually I don't like going to different spots so I just go home. So yeah, really average is like three two flowers on location. As I'm travelling sometimes we can go way more than this because you know I have limited time in the city so I need to get the most out of it in a few days only so I can stay out for like seven hours and go different places different location in the city. It's pretty exhausting. Yeah. But it's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:56   That's insane, like four and a half hours at a time staying at one place. Well what do you do and you're waiting. Emeric Time Lapse  17:04   So I should have identified manually so I have to keep an eye on my camera all the time. So it kind of keeps me busy. I know a lot of people have started shooting AV mud that's when I could get better but I'm the manual guy I like shooting my stuff manually all the time. Otherwise it just to Instagram I shoot my blog I try to find a class or a free youtube tutorial two shoots just look at the view. Seriously, sometimes it's just what I'm doing. And every time I regret not bringing a chair with me, I don't have a chair I need to buy a chair. But every time I forget to buy a chair so I'm like standing for like four or five hours sometimes it's it's pretty exhausting, but I don't know I have the passion around time lapse photography like that has been going for almost 10 years now and it's not fading away so that's pretty exciting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:57   So what what what was she like every time you know like like you say you know you get to a location you're looking at this beautiful scenery, you don't have a chair you have to stand you reset your camera for a time lapse and you start shooting everything else blogging, whatever you enjoy the scenery and then I'm sure after a while you're like Okay, I think I had enough of this kind of like scenery you know, after you spend half an hour an hour on that, what puts you to go like the extra hour or you know the extra whatever time it takes for you to stay there to get that footage. Emeric Time Lapse  18:33   Sometimes I tell myself like I'm here, so just let's just shoot it, you know, like it will be pointless to just come back later. I'm here let's do it. I think I just don't want to I don't like wasting my time. So I feel like and also make money from the time lapse I'm like okay, that's a good time lapse. If I if I feel like it's worth it. I'm gonna force myself to stay a little longer and then just do it you know, even if it's outside my comfort zone even if I'm tired like okay, I'm here I'm on vacation I can reset up let's just shoot it or I'm going to regret it. I rather you know get a little more tired but not regret it later. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:13   Yeah, I do I do get that I do get get that as like I really hate it when I go to a place and I realised I should have brought that particular lens. You know it's slightly different context there. I know exactly what you mean. termsof rather have that extra effort and not regret it later. Emeric Time Lapse  19:33   Exactly. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:34   Do you have like a you have like a specific like song or like snack that you would bring? You're like, Tom let's Emeric Time Lapse  19:43   not even besides water actually I never bring anything with me for some reason. If I feel tired, I'm gonna get like, like an energy drink. But for some reason I don't like eating on when I'm shooting. So I just besides water I don't really have anything with me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:00   It's crazy I remember this lunch I was doing like I'm like I was gonna shoot the sunset. And then because the cloud was like oh interesting and then the cloud was disgusting I was like well that's perfect. And now it's like you know what the Milky Way gonna rise there I can kind of be a good like you know, they didn't like bacon I found that so I brought up like a stove and like I was kicking into noodles and everything because I just got bored that's that's crazy. Like that's Yeah, that's amazing to see that that much dedication I suppose we should Emeric Time Lapse  20:37   like to do is like you were talking about like food or whatever is something I really like is booking like hotels was like crazy views. So you can set up the camera by the window and do whatever you want. You can have a couple of beers you can go up at a restaurant for you know to eat you don't care because the camera are protected they're safe. So that's why I like to do a lot when I go to a new city trying to find a hotel is a crazy view. I've been I've been doing this in San Francisco and Chicago New York yet but it's a I love shooting from hotels because you can relax you know Yeah, just a camera watch TV enjoy a few beers go for food like and then the time lapse is doing it's the camera is doing his job. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:23   that's awesome. Yeah, that's that's definitely good to add tips there. What sort of So what sort of gear that can be used to shoot unless you like bring like sliders and all that as well or mainly just a tripod and your camera. Emeric Time Lapse  21:39   So 90% of the time I should just use a regular tripod I do have all the gear for slider you know Pan and Tilt system but 90% of the time as just my cameras and couple of tripods. I have two cameras because sometimes you know there's a beautiful sunset you want to shoot different part different like time lapses so I have two cameras sometimes two tripods and like some hiking I just take one camera and yeah, I have sliders. I have a drone as well to do some like Hyperlapse from the sky which is pretty amazing what you can do yeah, that's pretty much it but I do have sliders I have actually served you know serve the brand. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:21   No, not really. Emeric Time Lapse  22:22   That is why RP serve. They do like filmmaking and time lapse sliders Pan and Tilt system. So I'm a brand ambassador, they actually from New Zealand for it's a new company based in New Zealand, and some brand ambassador, they send me some gear and I'm you know, I have to work with a do some review videos. So once in a while do should we sliders. It's, it takes a while to set up. I think that's why I don't like it so much. But um, definitely get like a very nice, you know, one, two or three axis time lapse at the end. So it's pretty exciting. But it takes time to set up so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:01   Yeah, cuz like, I mean, I could imagine if you have two cameras, that means two tripods. Yep. And then at least Emeric Time Lapse  23:09   two or three lenses? Exactly, we telemeters Bunch of that it's yeah, it's a love gear. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:16   You don't need a second, like a third and a fourth antiquary all that gear, right? Actually, I'm Emeric Time Lapse  23:22   pretty lucky because I have a roller bag. Okay, it's like the maximum carry on sides, you can have on a plane, so it's pretty big. And you can attach a tripod on the side so I can just, you know, pull the bag was the tripod, and then I carry another tripod on my left hand. So yeah, um it gets complicated when I have to bring sliders actually, or other stuff because I'm like, have the roller bag and everybody's tripod kit. Sometimes I also have a backpack who has more stuff. It's so it's a lot of gear. But yeah, I'd rather have the gear on vacation and not use it. You know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:00   Yeah, it goes back to that notion, right? Rather than to regret it. Emeric Time Lapse  24:07   Yep. Yep. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:08   So I actually saw your, your post the other day on YouTube about that progression from when your story that's a time lapse video. You only just like, share with the listeners out there. And I'll probably put the put that link on the on the description anyway, but share us a little bit about you know, how do you progress and, you know, what, what was it like to start? How much photography because I think for many people especially like, I mean, I know it was for myself as well, it was it was a little bit out of reach when I start thinking about it, you know, it's like, Man, I cannot do that as like I had to wait there for like three hours and like, you know, it's like picking what it's like, how do you do this? Like you know, so Uh, so take us through a little bit of that, like, you know, how you how you begin all this in terms of, yeah, just making a start and then to where you are right now. Emeric Time Lapse  25:10   It's an exam question, actually, yeah, when I was actually doing this video and looking at my old timelapses, I was trying to figure out how I started where I started, you know, and you get a laugh, but I started shooting time lapse, video, like photography. But even back in 2013, I wasn't even sure what my picture was doing. You know how, like, I didn't know it was really changing the depth of field. It's just, I wasn't really good at photography, but I was still shooting, I was going out there in 2013, sorry. And I didn't know how to control my camera settings. So most sometimes I was shooting either in the AV or even auto mode was my first time lapse in LA. So it's horrible. But I didn't know how to set the perfect interval, I didn't have any. I wasn't really aware of my environments. So I was just shooting a time lapse. For example, in the video, you can see a time lapse of the Hollywood sign. And that said, there's a couple of trees moving in the foreground, but there is nothing moving. So I was shooting time lapse to shoot time lapse. But I learned a lot from the shitty clips, sorry for my language. But I did learn a lot from those clips. Because I knew what I was doing wrong. Like, okay, I'm looking at the clip when I go back to my apartment or house. And yes, that's a boring time lapse. So I need to find a better subject. And then sometimes, okay, maybe my purchase to open here was too close. So next time I go, I'm going to use a slightly different temperature. Okay, the interval right now it's too long. So next time I go outside, I'm going to maybe say to faster interval. So I need to select a better shutter speed. It's like, it's an entire process. Like every time you go out, you experience something, you fail. But the next time you go outside, should I get what you learned from the previous session so you can create better content. And it's really what you see in the video I just posted like seven years of time lapse evolution, you can really see, every single year was pretty much focusing on a new problem. Almost like 2013 2014 is cam this same, but you can see the white balance is off a little bit 2015 the white balance is getting a little better. And starting to enrol files. Yes, I was shooting JPEG. It's terrible. It's terrible. Once you discover, you know the power of row files, it's amazing. But then yeah, white balance 2016 I was maybe shooting more interval that or position or subjects 2017 I was challenging myself shooting Hyperlapse videos. And now 2018. Until now, it's mostly about challenging myself funny new location chasing awesome sunrise and sunset. Because once you know how to do something, and you keep doing the same thing, can I get get bored at some point, like, you need to challenge yourself, you need to try new things, you know, and that's what I'm trying to do with my YouTube channel. I have like, a series of challenge videos that's gonna come up soon, when I'm trying to challenge myself do new things that I'm not so comfortable with, but learn from those things. And during those YouTube videos, I can share my experience with my followers as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:32   That's really cool. I was blogging because I remember one of the PDF, you're, you're looking at it and it's like, it's like, I don't know what it was thinking that Emeric Time Lapse  28:44   there's some like white balance at night, it looks super yellow. I'm like, What the hell is going on here? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:51   It's really funny because I had that moment all the time. It's like, like, I know, I wasn't, you know, like, I was just starting photography. But like, surely like, you know, I wouldn't have been this is great. So like, that's just, it's good, I guess, you know, for especially your listeners who kind of just get started or want to get started that, you know, we all been there. We're not the superhero that sort of social media make us look like you know, like, we didn't wake up yesterday and start picking up a camera and of Emeric Time Lapse  29:20   course not. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:23   That's yeah, it's really it's really cool to actually see that transformation and it's really it's really good to see the passion, the patient, patient and the passion you have to focus on one problem at a time. I think there is a lot of thing a lot of us have problem with I know like for me, I I'm really impatient. So I want to get there really quickly. And for that reason, I usually rush into all these different things. And I become a jack of all trades and an expert at none. You know what I mean? I Emeric Time Lapse  30:01   think I think the focusing on one problem at a time wasn't really something I decided to do is just it happened. Like, I was showing my time lapse and I, oh, I realise there's a problem here. So I'm going to work to fix it. When I know how to manage this problem what I discover new odd until, until you know, 2018 where now I'm like cleaning my time lapses like crazy. And, yeah, when I look back to 2013 2015 time lapses, I see all those problems that I didn't see at the time. But yeah, focusing on one thing at a time. It's not something that you know, it was doing on purpose, it was really just, it just happened one thing at a time, but as you can see, it took like, several years, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:45   I guess you're much wiser person than most of us. You know, it right, the right way us but so, like I said, this is one thing I really want to hear from you. Because, again, as a photographer, right, I could go out into one place, and I could, within the hour or half an hour or whatever time I'm there, I could look at it have a beat back, and I could correct it right away. As a timeless photographer, you don't have that. So how does this How does this learning progression works for you? And you know, what, what kind of works that you find in this, in this experience? What kind of works and what can I do some work to, you know, get better? Quickly at how much photography? Emeric Time Lapse  31:33   That's a good question. I think I think analysing your environments to see to see the city or landscape you're shooting as a time lapse photographer is gonna make the difference. So you need to Yeah, like to sit and analyse your environment. So see what's moving, you shouldn't have timeouts, you know, choosing one picture. So you need to find stuff that are moving in your environment. So most of the time, it's clouds. If you're in the city, it's cars, people like change, like Yeah, analyse your environment, I think that's going to make that you can see it in my video. Like the turn point is I already said sorry. The point where my time lapse is starting to get better is when I really started focusing on what I was capturing. So beautiful sunrise before sunset, constant motion. And I actually found that my favourite time lapses of them all they have like three different components. Because I always said sorry, my English is not 100% Perfect company. But when you have the city skyline makes we have some clouds. And the fast moving elements in the foreground is usually like the best recipe for a good time lapse. Because you have this city skyline is your subject, you have the clouds floating in the sky, and you have really fast moving elements like cars or boats moving in the foreground. And when I realised that you can mix different subjects together, like the city skyline with a sunset, or sunrise with cars or something like this, it's usually what's going to make a good time lapse. So I think if people like who are listening right now, just want to start doing time lapse yet start thinking time lapse. Like it's, it's you're not shooting one frame, you know, it's not, you're not shooting the time frozen. You're not frozen in time. That's what I want to say. So you shooting a period of time, five minutes to two hours, maybe more. So you need to sorry, you need to think about this. I don't know if it makes sense. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:45   Yeah, no, totally. I think what you're trying to say there basically think about things that will be right because the timeline information there. Yeah, yeah. So you say about like the foreground having moving foreground changing lights in the meet to meet ground and having clouds that move on the on the background makes Yeah, that cool. That cool. Timeless, is it I remember, when I was first started, I take a photo of this. It was actually a really nice sunset, but it was like you say there was like it was the mountain and then you got like, the sun, the sky kind of changing colour, but there was no cloud. And sure it was kind of nice to see the change in colour, but it takes a while and it's like Emeric Time Lapse  34:30   something missing right? You could do better. Yeah, totally. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:35   So that was like when you say that was like yeah, I remember that that when I take that video and that really, really explain why you know that that I feel like there's something missing like you say. Yeah, so that's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And I think you're exactly right. When you say if there's nothing moving in, in in the in your scene, then There's no point in making a tablet because at the moment is just a multiple same thing. Right? Emeric Time Lapse  35:05   Exactly. That's actually what I'm actually writing a free class right now. And I was talking about this issue where I told people it's not because you can show a time lapse that you should don't show a time lapse, because you can show a time lapse because you should. And I think it's it makes a difference. Like, yeah, I can't go through a time lapse every day here in LA, but I'm not going because first of all, I'm lazy kind of sometimes, but I'm saying it's not worth it to go every day. There is no reason for me to go out every day. I need to pick up when there's no smog when I say some clubs, because it's makes always the difference. So yeah, don't your time lapse because you can yes, you have the gear or the time but go on is worth it. It's what makes the difference. It's what makes a difference between the time lapse in a good beautiful time lapse. Yeah, for sure. message behind behind time lapse, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:57   yeah, I think as as photographers, you know, whatever photographers we are we have this tendency of like, looking at one like a scenery and and just like, oh, yeah, that's beautiful. And we didn't think about it and just try to snap it. And then obviously, it doesn't work, because our eyes and our camera are two different looking at two different things. Right. Yeah, that's, that's, I think that's great, too, that you mentioned that, for the viewer out there. To think about what you're shooting and analyse that with. So how is that? How do you learn? Like, you actually, I guess what I'm trying to say is, you should have time lapse, right? You invest like, two, three hours, whatever. And then after that, you've got your, your, your video, so your photo in the video, and then you cannot realise where it's missing. And then the next time you have to try to fix that, right? So is there like, how do you do that is is it just pretty much just a long, long winded process that you have to do? Like, just have to shoot? You know, like hope for the best and then review it and then kind of just try to fix it the next time? Or is there a better way of kind of analysing what you what might have gone wrong during the shoot itself? Emeric Time Lapse  37:18   I'm trying to understand your question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:21   So I guess what, I guess what I'm trying to say is that when we should still photography, we know if we shoot the wrong way, if it's the wrong settings, or what? Well as in a time lapse photography, you don't know your final product that you go home and put it all together. So is there a way? Is there any, like a way that you can recognise that you're like, oh, no, like, you know, I shouldn't I shouldn't have done that. Or, you know, I should have done this, where you don't have to kind of wait until you go home and put it all together, you know that you did wrong? Yeah, I Emeric Time Lapse  37:55   think that's something you develop was time. Like, I think it makes a big difference to really think, like, imagine how the future is going to be like the future is like, what 10 minutes? Like, you really need to think about how it's gonna look like I think a time lapse photographer has to obviously, sometimes you can't control the weather. So you don't know. You don't know how it's gonna end. You know, you don't know what to expect. But there is like different apps and different. And I think knowledge and experience is making you better and better at, you know, thinking what's going to happen. So you is that? Is that your question? Am I answering your question? Yeah, it's a very interesting question. But I'm trying to make sure it's clear for people listening. But yeah, I think that's the experience like, I think 80% of the time, an hour before sunset, I can predict what's going to happen what's going to happen, because I've seen so many different clouds so many different sunset. Yeah, I know what's going to happen. So I know if it's worth going out shooting the next time, you know, obviously I'm not 100% right all the time, but Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:05   you don't go out there you don't get it right. Emeric Time Lapse  39:08   Exactly. That's That's my moto. I haven't moto that say in French. Can you talk to iron out? Yeah. Which means if you don't try anything, you won't get anything? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:15   Yeah. So like, you have to Emeric Time Lapse  39:19   try and yes, sometimes it fails. So many times. I'm like I came back was like very bad footage. It's like you can control the weather. So the best you can do is just show up expect for the best. Sometimes it works sometimes you expected something bad and something amazing happened. It can go both ways. You know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:39   Yeah. That is very clear. Like is a lot of times where that kind of happens. I actually like some of them. My favourite shots are like that. I was like I'm expecting it's like, Oh, it's nothing. It's like, oh, whoa, what's that? Emeric Time Lapse  39:53   Way in time and photography. You need to learn to wait. That's what's gonna make the difference. especially if you're shooting sunset likes. Sometimes you shouldn't use sunset and like Okay, since it was like 1015 minutes ago and yeah, the clouds of the sky looks boring. And then one it later it's like Sky fires super red and pink and like, oh, Mike. Good thing I learned I stayed a little bit longer, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:22   Yeah, that's, I actually learned that the hard way. There's so many times that you're like, oh, yeah, it's gone. It's like everything on dry palms like. Emeric Time Lapse  40:33   And you feel so bad. Like you're super angry. But yeah, learn to weights, even in photography, like regular photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:41   Yeah, totally. That's, yeah, that's cool. So yeah, that's, I mean, thanks a lot for sharing that. I think that's a it's really important for, for many of us to kind of have that passion of patient. It's really hard to Emeric Time Lapse  40:56   lose patience. Yeah. And passion. Yeah. Yeah, that patience Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:59   to just wait a little bit longer. And, you know, don't don't go for that final product all the time. But yeah, that's, that's amazing. What, what are, share with us some of your favourite time lapse moment, or maybe your time lapse? You know, it can be experienced or photo combat altogether? Emeric Time Lapse  41:21   Excellent question. I'm trying to remember like, which one comes to my mind first. The most recent one was, I was in New York, it was July 2018. So before, all the cosmic thing. But I was meeting a few friends. In New Jersey, you know, we have a skyline view on New York. And then there was, there were a few clouds in the sky, but nothing really, like super exciting. But you know, it was my last day in New York. So we met up there, we started showing time lapses. And at some point, the sun shining through the clouds and, you know, lit up the entire skyline. But since you know we're facing east, you can see the sunset in the buildings. So it's a pretty interesting concept. And then, few minutes later, the the clouds starting to turn pink. I was like, oh my god, it's like perfect time lapse. And then you had like a lot of boat traffic from the Hudson River. And then maybe 20 minutes later, almost full moon rising in my shot was like all. Like, everything came together in one single time lapse. And he got me super excited. And I was like, oh my god, I had to share with my Instagram followers, because every time everything comes together, it gets me super pumped up. And I'm excited. And like, this is why I'm showing time lapse. This is why I have some bad days. This is why sometimes I fail. It's because I want this type of shoot to happen. And there's this one. I think there was another one. Obviously, yeah, I don't know if you've seen this case space. Not not just a space SpaceX sorry. The SpaceX time lapse of the Falcon nine rocket launch above downtown LA. Like this one was super exciting. I didn't know what to expect. I just knew two rockets. So it's gonna go fast. It's going up, so I need to get some room in the sky. So this is what I did. I started with a one second interval, and super wide. And then he came out and like super awesome. And when you see a rocket launch in front of you, it's like super freaking exciting. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:36   Is that was that the one that looked like there was an explosion in the sky? Yep. I saw that. I was like, whoa. And yeah, that was that was insane. Actually, I haven't seen the moon one yet. I really need to get a link on that one. Because Emeric Time Lapse  43:54   I don't know if it's it's definitely on Instagram. I don't. I might have a version on YouTube. I still I've been wanting to do a YouTube kind of time lapse mix of New York. But yeah, I think there was, I think there was I feel like I'm missing one. Yeah, I mean, there was a private property in LA, I got a special access to shoot from there. And the view was amazing. The sunset was crazy. It's like you feel excited when you are the right place at the right time. Okay, maybe it happens 5% of the time, but when it happens, it's just super exciting. And it gives you so much energy to further 95% of the time or you won't be at the right place. So yeah, that's why I keep doing this so can chase amazing moment like this in time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:47   Yeah, that's very inspiring, actually. It's very, very true the way you say that. You know, sometimes like I hope all that 95% Only five of them come true, but you know that 5% is like, not go for more. Right? Emeric Time Lapse  45:03   It's so good. It's like, I don't know, gives you so much energy for you know, 95% that it's not so good. I mean, it's still good, but it's anyway, you know what I mean? It's, it's crazy. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:19   Really hard to explain it isn't it is Emeric Time Lapse  45:21   hard because it's something to live yourself and you need to experience it to understand. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:27   yeah, that's totally totally. You have like, so like, this year, someone's like, you're really, you know, found moments, I suppose. You know, one, you're, you're most proud of that. 5%. But share us a little bit more about that. 95% like, you know, what is your struggle as a time of photography? And, you know, to get to where you are right now, especially. Emeric Time Lapse  45:54   So there's the most, I think it's like, learning how to read the weather, like sometimes. The 95 It's, How do you say this? It's a good question. Again, you're really good at this. You really did. But it gets me like thinking about how I do things, which sometimes I don't actually, I just do things, but I don't know the psychology behind it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:20   I realised that as well, when I started to, like, teach his that out. It's like, I don't know how to explain that. Like, you cannot have that. Emeric Time Lapse  46:28   It's like putting words on stuff you do physically like actions. But yeah, sometimes what I fail, it's just yeah, it's it's an expected sunset, for example, like a weather that like a sunset that didn't end the way you want it. So you can't have disappointing or you're not at the right place at the right time. Are you facing the wrong way? Like, for example, I was, it was the following maybe a month ago or so. So I went to a spot in LA facing camera east will downtown LA. But it was so smoky, that we can actually live in a cloud as well. Like, I couldn't see the moon at all. I saw the moon for like two minutes, and it was gone. But if at sunset, if I just you know, turn 180 degrees behind me facing west, the sunset was crazy. So I was like, like, I should have gone to a different place facing west. But yeah, it's like you can't get mad at yourself in a way because you didn't go to the right location on time. It's like it's hard to expect what's going to happen I talk a lot about sunset because that's what I shoot the most but that's why I'm you know, more experienced with Yeah, it's just kind of getting mad at yourself for not being in the right place. I feel like that's why I'm struggling struggling and lots and also trying to find new locations, new angles of the cities can be tough in you know, safe areas, especially in LA. So I often goes go back to like the same spots and but I'm trying to get different weather conditions. Stuff like this. Yeah, trying to be original. It's kind of tough after like, seven years in the same area. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:13   It's, it's, it's, it's actually one of the reason why I got a second camera. Because there was so many times where I was like, I want to shoot time lapse and then 15 minutes to that and I was like, No, I want to shoot the steel frame as well. But I don't want to break the child's like I hate myself more than I was like, you know, getting taken care of. That's yeah, that's a that's that's great. Thanks for sharing that. I think there's a lot of our struggle as photographers especially when we get when we expect one thing facing another and then the other the good things happened on the other side. Emeric Time Lapse  48:58   Yeah, One day One day I was shooting with one camera I think oh, are you here? Yeah, good. One camera and I didn't expect this sensor to be crazy so I can have zoomed in on my time lapse 100 Me also downtown LA is like you know kind of close up shot of downtown LA and obviously the sunset got super crazy and the clouds were super pink and red and and I got super mad at myself because what was happening in front of me but I couldn't really change anything you want to stop the data in a time lapse I'm going to show you the full transition so yeah, you got kind of mad at yourself again for taking a bad decision. The right the wrong fucking lens that time instead of the location location was good but the wrong focal length. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:48   It's it's it's always a struggle, isn't it? So like as, as a timeless photographer who's been doing this for seven years, he said Emeric Time Lapse  50:00   So I have seven years professionally, but I started like, for fun back in 2011. So nine years, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:06   nine years in Yeah. So how, you know, like, like you say is, it's really hard to come up with something new, right? It's something that's interesting or fresh. How do you? How do you basically fight this uphill battle? To come up with something new for yourself? I guess not only for yourself, but also for your audience, right? Because if it's always the same thing, they become less interesting. So how do you create that view? Engaging, unique content? You know, after 10 years? Emeric Time Lapse  50:42   Good question. Yeah. I try to inspire myself from other people a little bit, try and see what they do. Not so much. Because I don't like copying other people's work. I like to find my own stuff up, you see, but it's great to see what other time lapse photography due to can inspire yourself. And, you know, I'm someone who really overthink a lot, I think a lot, my brains always like to do too. So sometimes I can be, I don't know, brushing my teeth, and bam, I have an idea. So I always have a document open on my computer, it's like, oh, that's gonna be a great idea. Like, it's very new original. So I write it down. And then later on, I go there to shoot it and do it. But yeah, I'm trying to challenge myself a little more. Trying to even if I don't know how to do that thing, I'm gonna try go out and do it. It doesn't mean I'm going to succeed. You know, I think that's, that's why I don't like it. Because I don't like failures. I don't like doing that work. I don't like to waste my time. So every time I go up, it has to be perfect. I have to come back with a great time lapse or I'm going to be angry. I'm very mad at myself. But I realised that it can get boring at some point, because you always go for the safe. The safe game in a way, like always, it's not fun, you know? So if you challenge yourself, okay, you might fail at the beginning. But then you're going to learn from this. It's exactly what I've been doing for the past seven years. I'm just for some reason. I don't want to get out of my comfort zone lately. I'm pretty lazy. Here's something but I've been out of my comfort zone since 2013 in LA and that's why I'm here today. So I need to find again, what's going to take me out of my comfort zone to you know, keep growing, you know it because I don't want to stay where I am. I don't wanna be stagnant. I want to stay. Yeah, I'm a good level. I'm good at what I'm doing. But I need change myself more. To be more clear to be more happy, I guess was the content I create to be more fulfilled? I guess. That would be the the word for it. The world the word sorry, word. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:53   Yeah. That's, that's good. Thanks. Thanks for that. I think that's really inspiring to hear. Especially you know, how you say that you're, you're, you know, you're you're a perfectionist, and we don't like failures, but by by doing that, you stay in that safe zone. So you know, what the saying stays, you know, there's nothing's gonna happen. There's nothing exciting in your inside your comfort zone. And you know, all Emeric Time Lapse  53:19   this what I've been trying to do, like, okay, when I'm shooting a YouTube video, for example, and oh, I did something wrong. It's fine. I'm gonna I'm still going to share it with my YouTube now. Okay, I did. I did this wrong. I learned from it, I fixed it. Now I'm moving on. And I used to maybe the past couple years to be really okay has to be perfect. Was my YouTube videos was my time lapse videos. And obviously, my time lapse scenes, you know, it's the final products, I really want it to be perfect, but it's still like, if I fail one day, it's fine. I can still you know, share the experience. And I'm a teacher. So I need I think it's the teaching part that makes me Okay, now to teach, I have to be perfect. And it's kind of like the bad side of being a teacher because you put yourself some limits, not limits. You put yourself into a mood where you have to constantly be perfect, better than your students who stuff like this. But no, it's fine. If it's not always perfect. You know, you have to you learn, you see, I was still holding human beings. And it's so cliche, but you know, that's true at the end of the day, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:33   that is very curious that it's funny because it's a cliche, but we often forget it so Exactly, yeah. Today, you mentioned that and I think especially as an educator like yourself, you know, I, I follow your, your, your journey, and I appreciate those those failures. Personally, you know, it makes me like, it's like, okay, so I'm kind of right here on you know, like Emmerich's kind of gear In the end, I know how to get to where to go like an inspiration and a goal to aim for I suppose. As someone who started I think that's one thing that could be difficult, just relating back to myself, is that, okay? Like, where? What's next? You know, like, because we don't know any better, right? We only know what we know. So seeing that, like, I think that that that that episode that you share between the eight years it was like really cool. Like, it's like, I got to see us like, okay, it's like, so I kind of know where I am now. And then I kind of know where to fix that. So that's, that's great. Yeah. Cool. Like, yeah, like, that's awesome. Very inspiring. We're coming out to the end of it, so don't want to keep you any longer. A couple more questions for you. Sure. Mine The first one is I'm I'm very I love your your time lapse of that New York and the Milky Way I want you to talk about the lovers. I want to hear that a little bit. Emeric Time Lapse  56:08   It's this time lapse is kind of like the kind of like I just said earlier, where I was doing something super random and approved, I got this idea. So I had to go on my computer and do it and it turned out super well. So it's a time lapse of the Milky Way with the Flatiron Building in New York. It's obviously two different time lapses, you cannot see the Milky Way like this scene in New York, in the centre of Manhattan, you cannot see the Milky Way. But uh, when I do I can composite like this, like a fake blending was two different time lapse, I want to be as as real as possible. Like, sometimes I need the moon but you know, people, they're going to add like a super giant moon on their photo, and it looks fake. I'm going to be the one who's gonna like, maybe make it a little bigger, but I'm going to make it blurrier. I'm going to try to make the same colour. Maybe I'm going to remove a little bit I don't know, I'm always trying to imagine how it really could be. So when I imagined how to see the Milky Way, in New York, I didn't want to have the same exact same milky way that the middle of the desert, you know, because in the middle of a desert, you can, there's not a lot of light pollution. So you can see a lot of contrast in the sky. So I put my Milky Way. But I also put some, you know, light pollution back on top of it to kind of make it a little more real in a way. It's not real, obviously. But I'm trying to fight to be as close as possible from the reality if it was possible to see it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:41   I think that's that's why he was I think that's why it's so cool. Because like, you're right, like when I when I saw it, I was like, wow, like, that looks so real. That's insane. Like, what what actually inspired you to do that? Emeric Time Lapse  57:54   No idea, I think it was. The only reason is like I was trying to find like a time lapse to share on Instagram. And I saw this one of the Flatiron Building that I've never shot. But this guy was completely dark. It was okay, it's super. It's black, it's peach black in New York. There's no clouds. It's like super easy. So I was like, Maybe I should I add something in it. It's nighttime, so I could be away. And so I put it on After Effects. I say like doing the masking around the building. And I don't know, if you look on the left, you can see a building was like balconies. And I had to, you know, mask all around every single balcony to make it even nicer. And it took me like two hours just to do this, you know, tiny part of the time lapse. But yeah, like I say, I'm a perfectionist. So even if I'm going to fake something, I really want it to be as close as possible from the reality. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:56   It was really nicely planned. I must say like, I don't do much composite as well. Like, like you do. But like, you know, sometimes I like to do it. And yeah, it's fun to like, the things Emeric Time Lapse  59:08   very fun. Yeah. Because like, you get to challenge yourself, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:13   you get the you get to get out of your reality for a little bit. Right, just like imagine what actually possible and I think that's, that's one thing that I really liked about composite is that hey, like, you know, yeah, it's sure it's not real, but like, just imagine this, you know, it could just turn off the light please for three hours New York. Emeric Time Lapse  59:35   If you look at my latest personal Instagram, it's a it's a sensation of Downtown LA. And same it's actually I added the clouds. So it was I wanted to share these time lapse but you know, it's le sky so there's no clouds. And I was like okay, I'm going to try and find a time lapse or shot in the past and I'm going to add the sky and that. So I found a sunrise So I had to flip the time lapse. So the the sun will be on the right side. And so so it certain ways, so it's going from night to day. So I find the size, the speed of the sunrise to make it look like a sunset. And then I, again did like the New York one where I, you know, mask the skyline out in the clouds on top of it. So again, it's fake, but no one saw anything. Unknown Speaker  1:00:27   Very cool. It's very cool. Emeric Time Lapse  1:00:29   Myself, like, you know, like I said earlier trying new things. And yeah, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:35   Yeah. Now that I think that turns out really well. So, you know, like, thanks a lot for being here. And I think we're one question that I always asked to. My, my guess is that, if there is one advice that you can give to the listener who might want to try, you know, time lapse or whatnot, what would be that one thing that they should they can use to focus on and either start a time lapse or get better at time lapse? Emeric Time Lapse  1:01:08   There's just so many. That's why it's interesting. It's just time lapse photography. It's so many little details and things to put together. But I would say, I don't know if it's cliche, but just go out and experience. You know, I have a failure that's, I've been talking about in this podcast a few minutes before. But yeah, just try go out. And yeah, you might fail at the beginning, you might come back with some bad time lapses. But yeah, you can learn from this. And I feel like that's how I learned to create good content is by failing before that the good content, you know, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:45   yeah. I would say, awesome. Yeah. That's, that's good. Have fun. Yeah, that's it. Right. How fun. That's the one. Emeric Time Lapse  1:01:55   But it makes a big difference. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:57   Yeah. All right. Well, thanks a lot for being here in America. And yeah, that was a lot of fun. Happy to chat with us. Yeah, Emeric Time Lapse  1:02:05   thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:07   yeah, for sure. So like, you know, for, I know, you got a few projects gonna come in up, you know, like, maybe share with us some of the projects that you have coming up, or some of the ideas that you want to shoot, and let the listener know where they can see more of your, of your real work as well as how to get in touch with you. Especially, you know, like, I know that you're, you're you have a core so for those of you kind of want to learn that I did buy a course I haven't opened it. I haven't edited yet, but I did. So, yeah, let us know how to find you. Sure. First, the Emeric Time Lapse  1:02:45   projects I have right now coming up. I'm working on a big time lapse masterclass. 2021, it's gonna make it's gonna be different than what I have right now. Because I'm travelling all around the country. I'm going to different cities, I'm actually sharing how I approach the different cities. All the problems I'm coming across how I fix the problem, how I adapt my myself and my work to where I am. And so I'm going to have it's a masterclass in a mix of UC education like learning time lapses, but also travelling, and I'm gonna have motion control. Astro time lapse hyperlapse video is going to be big, big masterclass, coming hopefully before the summer 2021 I'm also working on a film festival, a time lapse Film Festival I've been trying to it's an idea I've been having for a hide for almost two years now. To like, create like an awesome good time lapse Film Festival in North America because there's nothing right here. So I got some I got the jury already got the guidelines. I'm working on a website anyway, it's gonna come very soon. By the end, by the by next year, probably. And yeah, obviously in tonnes of YouTube videos coming soon, so people can find me on on YouTube and Rick's timelapse on Instagram as well and make time lapse. And on my website in real time labs.com where I have my classes, all my online classes if people want to purchase, you know, it helps me create more content for free and paid as well. But yeah, I'm really glad I have those classes. Yeah, can learn anything time lapse, Hyperlapse day to like cleaning ever time lapse. Everything you want is 24 hours of lessons. So you got the full day. You can watch my classes for full desk traits. Anyway, yeah, it's all online on Google as well. You can just type my name, you'll find me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:53   All right. Well, cool. Well, thanks a lot for that. I was hoping that you mentioned about that one festival because that looks really amazing. Yeah, Emeric Time Lapse  1:05:00   yeah, it's it's gonna come next year I have, I don't know if you know, again to Veganuary is like the creator of our time lapse is gonna be one of the jury and a few other people too. It's gonna be I think it's gonna be a great festival. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:15   Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's awesome. I saw that on your, on your feed and like, and this looks like pretty. It's just Emeric Time Lapse  1:05:22   teasing for now because I don't have much ready but I'm just teasing people. It's like a couple of screenshots. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:30   All right, well, thanks a lot. They're coming in again. Emeric Time Lapse  1:05:33   Well, thanks for having me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:35   Appreciate your time, and thanks for sharing your wisdom and also your knowledge. And that was that was a it was great. You know, especially on a really niche type of photography. I suppose. I was really hoping that you jumped on board because I don't know maybe 10 of us photographers. So glad that you did. Emeric Time Lapse  1:05:54   Yeah. My pleasure. That was nice. Yeah. Like I said at the beginning, I'm always trying, you know, if I don't have an excuse for going for it, I was saying yes, it can change a lot of stuff. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:06:08   All right, well, we get hundreds Thank you very much for listening in and focus, we get a lot from that. And, you know, even though maybe you want to try time lapse, maybe you know, it's not kind of your your forte, but you should really give it a go because it is a lot of fun. And I started with my cell phone and my GoPro so you don't need to actually use this crazy camera to start it. But as soon as I started, I was hooked like I just there is no looking back. So thanks a lot for being here and tune up for next week. And if you haven't subscribed yet, make sure you follow our channel and you get to hear more about this passionate photographers sharing their how photography give them more hope, purpose and happiness. So if you're watching this on YouTube, you can hit the subscribe button down here and then hit that notification bell, the bell, notification bell and you'll get notified when there's a new episode coming. Alright, well s

Hey Wicked Hunters,  So I want to share my recent experience with photography burnout. I'll be honest with you, it wasn't fun. I struggle to find any motivation to pick up a camera and to head out. There were so many ideal conditions where it presents a very unique opportunity for me to be able to create something different. But instead I was at home watching Netflix and feeling frustrated for myself. How did I get out of it? Well in this episode I will cover the 3 things that helped me to get my passion for photography back.  If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/H452OQlGg6c Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe

Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome to another episode of The ART of Photography Podcast with Stanley Ar. Today I want to share what it means to approach photography with an open mind. For those of you who want to learn more about Johannes: www.johannes.com.au Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johannesreinhart/ If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/UVL4v3AZcuM Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe

Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome to another episode of The ART of Photography Podcast with Stanley Ar. Today I want to introduce Johannes Reinhart who's a master in performance photography but also in finding unique perspectives in common places. He shared how to approach photography with an open mind to be able to capture one that is unique to you. For those of you who want to learn more about Johannes: www.johannes.com.au Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johannesreinhart/ If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/g4ttCEb7GLc  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ----------------------- Johannes Reinhart  0:00   It's really like keeping an open mind. Like, look around and keep an open mind and don't get stuck on. I want to take this particular photo Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:18   here, we can do this Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share our passion as a photographer, and we share how photography has brought hope, purpose and even happiness to our life. So today we have someone very special from Perth. I met him back during one of the project is called the 730 project. We were we were doing that as fundraising. And he is definitely one of the top Perth event photographer and one of the most creative photographer out there. He definitely find beautiful things in the order in ordinary things. So I'm very excited to welcome Johan is, are you doing your hunters? Johannes Reinhart  1:09   Yeah, good. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:12   Yeah, no, great. How's things back in Perth? Johannes Reinhart  1:15   Pretty good. We don't have much COVID restrictions or life goes mostly normal. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:21   And it's crazy. It's just amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. I mean, like, it's crazy how people can you know, all the everything's open to venues and stuff. Like there's practically banging? Well, I guess that's the one advantage of being the most isolated city in the world. A Johannes Reinhart  1:37   definitely. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:40   All right. So like, thanks a lot for coming in. And yeah, we met on, you know, that is 730 project there. And I think that was the first time I met you, which was a little bit embarrassing, because you're very young. It looks like everyone knows you. And you got definitely one of the top photographers begging for them, especially to learn from. Give us a little bit just introduction about yourself, you know, where are you? Where are you coming from in what type of photography you do and how you kind of get there. Johannes Reinhart  2:15   Because I come from Germany, and it's where the accent is, I moved to Australia, I think I was 25. And I live here for 20 years already. And I started photography, probably around 25 years ago, like proper way, I bought my first SLR camera and then really gotten into it. And in the last summit in 2003, I started going out professionally as well maybe like, after 789 years, being really keen photographer. So I shot a wedding at you know, we went to a wedding and took some pictures. And that turned out better than the ones from the wedding photographer. And the same thing happened again that year for another wedding. And then I thought I'm becoming a wedding photographer. So I started Yes, I started off as a wedding photographer, you know, just like, Okay, I'm a wedding photographer now. And that's why they're and you know, and then learning and then all learning and then digital came around. And then everything had to be learned kind of new, you know, computers and colour management, all that. And then and then after a couple of years, I didn't really pick up my camera anymore. Because I was associated picking the camera up with Burke and and then through some coincidence, and there was this photographer, like PIP photographers and Kurth group on Flickr. And then people being like going out and meeting each other. And I always did photography in isolation, really. And so Oh, there's other people like me, isn't that amazing? And then I went out and to the mates and we shared the photos after on online I mean, it's all normal now but back then, it was like to start off the internet, so to speak. And then I've really reignited my passion for photography. And I also realised what I've lost with you know, not picking up the camera for myself anymore for my own book. Just for playing around and then yeah, and then I never stopped, you know, taking pictures for myself and my personal work is really important to me, like I mean I'm really busy doing professional work which I kind of shoot everything nowadays, but I concentrated events and especially performance and a bit of commercial and bit of everything and teaching obviously. So it's it's a nice variety nowadays, that I can Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:37   set that up. So would you say that performance and art photography is your main passion? Is that why you kind of you know, sway into that categories or Johannes Reinhart  4:51   nothing? Well yes and no performance for that used to be a passionate because it was so you know a such a different world. Hold on I Love You know, having access and the camera is a bit like a passport as the saying goes. So you Yeah, I I, I had total passion for performance photography and now I'm doing it for maybe over 10 years and then so it's not in I really love it. But it's it's kinda it's not this strange, exotic real animals, everything kind of becomes quite normal, which is really interesting, isn't it? And it's definitely a passion but at the moment I'm, I'm, I'm more kind of interested in my personal work I'm more interested in like, which sometimes performance matches like themes like light and shadow and alienation and life and death and loneliness and and subcultures, which, which performance, obviously, part of. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:51   Yeah, that's, that's really cool. I think definitely one of the photo that really catch caught my eyes on that project was that, just that the way you play with the shadow, you know, playing that contrast, it was it was, I never actually do that, in previous to that it was, it was mostly about, you know, trying to get the even lighting, make sure that all the subject is lined up. And it was, it was definitely a big mind shift, when, when I first saw that I was like, wow, like, you know, like, you don't have to see the dark, like, you don't have to see what's under the shadow, it actually could create something, like, quite unique about it. So that was really cool to see. What, what inspires you to, you know, do to do that kind of photography in the first place? Is it just as a, like, accident that you kind of come across it? Or was there an inspiration somewhere along the line Johannes Reinhart  6:49   that already leads back to my childhood? Because I, I've been really drawn to, you know, days to be black and white photographs and magazines and papers. I don't know where I've seen them. But I've been really drawn to Yeah, with the stark contrast the images, which, which those sometimes used to do and then when I had a camera, I kind of tried to do that. And obviously it doesn't quite work like that. And then you come to Australia and the sun is so much harsher than in Europe, as you know. Yeah, it's crazy. Like in Germany, if I should, in the middle of the diet, it's like a kind of overcast ish, almost overcast dish down here, the lights really soft in comparison. And in Perth, we have this extraordinary hard light. So you can create you know, if you expose for the highlights and your shadows become really deep and dark and, and I really love that kind of effect. And I'm, I'm naturally drawn towards it that just sort of an extension of myself really? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:47   Well that's, that's really interesting, you know, like, because, you know, most photographers look for that soft light, right? Where we're taught, like, hey, you know, go in the morning, or go in the afternoon where the light is soft. But here you are, like just taking advantage of something totally different. Something that's just so harsh, and people would probably stay at home, I probably would be stay at home by that time. But you take that into advantage. That's really cool. Johannes Reinhart  8:14   So can I just say something for that? Yeah, for sure. So it also came through necessity because I'm a stay at home dad, and I look after my kids and when they were little. So now they're teenagers, but whenever little is like during the day was the only time I could go out and have my own life. So, so I was like, I felt like I'm the lunchtime photographer, you know, the middle of the day here, I'm out and then I just kind of had to do with what I got. And then that's another layer that kind of added on to that. Yeah, that's I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:45   that's that's also an important factor. You know, a lot of a lot of photographers out there, especially the one that can just start it, see those explosive sunset or sunrise, you know, for landscape or, you know, a special lighting and we are so fixated with those lighting, that, you know, if we go to the location, and then we didn't get that light, we would just pack our gear and go home which, you know, you said it perfectly sometimes you just have to take advantage of were what was the condition that you have? So that's that's really amazing. Yeah, so what what was your what's your biggest inspiration if there is any, you know, what, what, how does this creativity mind works? Like, you know, what sparked this create DVD? I suppose. Johannes Reinhart  9:35   That's a really hard question for me. It's like, I just thought back and mind I mean, the Magnum photographers used to inspire me. And now because I do photography for a long time and like 20 years intensively really, or obsessively could say, so now at the moment my inspirations really kind of trying to go deeper in my own personal work and vision and whatever that means, I don't even know what that means but but that's the kind of place I want to go to. So I kind of work on projects, I just finished a book from a Japan holiday that I might free books out of it, one family, one, street photography, and one that's about to do with, you know, the temporary nests of everything in our whole life. And, and, and, and that's just me, you know, being in middle age and trying to get my head around, but I'm going to die 40 years, maybe sooner. And just kind of being more aware of my time is limited here. And, and it just comes out in the work I should naturally and then it's like sequencing and putting it together and finding the theme. And just how I photograph, usually it's very much based on serendipity, I kind of go through everything a little bit. I something pops up, and then I go Oh, that's interesting. And I take note and and then over time I work out what are the important themes in my work, or what are themes in my work that just naturally come up and trying to kind of dig in on that and move forward. And so it's all like it, it's, it's a little bit like just finding myself and photography helps me to kind of put a light to what's in my subconscious then I can learn our game that's going on, because the subconscious was like maybe a year ahead or half a year ahead of what you actually know what's going on. And, and then just trying to combine it with my photography and learn about myself and my feelings. And, and, and also have fun and just like we beat New Zealand in January, which was very, very good timing and very lucky. And I was so excited about you know, discovering all I mean, we go for those beautiful nature walks and seeing those amazing things and, and I'm there with my camera as I can capture it and I'm so excited. And I think photography with photography, the the whole worlds like a treasure box, really. And it's just like, going out and discovering what's around the corner here and what's there and, and that brings a lot of joy into for me and capturing that it's a lot more fun for me than just seeing it. So because then I guess I can go hey, look at this. Look, look what I've seen, you know, and I mean, when I go with my family, I go oh, look at this and amazing, they're lucky or whatever. And once I take a picture, sometimes they go oh, that's actually not bad. Yeah, that's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:43   that's a it's really funny, isn't it? Like, and it's really cool as well, like, how so basically, you're saying, you know, use photography as a way to express yourself and, you know, express your kind of inner thought and where you can going or what's in your head? In terms of photograph? Yeah, so like that, I find that it's really definitely one of the reasons that a lot, a lot of us do photography as a creative outlet. So how does that you know, how do you look beyond the ordinary? You know, because I see a lot of your photos, you, you, you focus on things that people wouldn't focus on just the quirky things, the little small details. And that was the one thing that I really noticed, you know, when I was there next, you cannot watch your work. It was just like, wow, and it was just like, how did he think of this just like blow you out of your mind, because it's not something that people would normally think about. Johannes Reinhart  13:47   When it comes to I think there's two different layers of it. One is I'm not interested in just another pretty picture. So I'm, I you know, that's how you start off or that's how I started off, you know, trying to emulate the photographer scene and emulate, you know, the great photos or, you know, Christian Fletcher took this photo of something and you know, and Duncan and you have that in mind when you go to Ayers Rock and you're trying to take kinda that similar photo and then you're very proud when just looks kind of similar. And then and then the next step was like, more finding my own voice and because I mean me lighting is just a great thing to learn photography, but then it's really like it might have been when I went to photo for you, which might have been 2003 or four. There was photo for you and then I went there and I say in photography that kind of found confronting is like, what this is, like supposed to be good photography, you know, because it wasn't just pretty pictures and then and that kind of really opened up my my world and seeing this was photography and that is photography and then going okay, what is it that I do? And I guess then I took a little bit of is a free pass to explore, go a little more me personal. And for a number of years, I was really struggling with that, you know, like this is popular and you feel like you're supposed to do what's popular, right. But then it's also but I prefer those pictures, you know. And then eventually, I ended up winning prices winning documentary photographer of the year, at the IPP with my own picture with that, yeah, put my own pictures in, I actually won. And I was like, amazing. And then that really manifested in my, okay, I, I basically, I won those prices, because I did what I did my own thing anyway. And then it's after that, it became really easy to just follow my own thing. And nowadays, I just do my photography, the why, in my personal work, do my photography that the way I want to do it. And then and it's very easy just to and then the other part of that is I go out and I try, I basically go out with an open mind and just look around and see what I find. And just trust in my gut instinct and trust in serendipity and, and often start with light in our NSA some interesting light somewhere, and then I look closer, and then I find something and then if I react to it, and then I start to take pictures of it. And then I mean, obviously if I react to it, and there's there's something that interests me, and I just kind of follow that. So yeah, like a treasure hunt, like, like in New Zealand. Yeah, that's, that's come out the way I like it in a way, which does not there many pretty pictures. But I don't know, oh, they're a little more more clutter, they're not as clean, I think I could shoot a lot more cleaner. If I and I do that more in my commercial work, where things are more orderly and clean. And in my personal work, it's sometimes maybe a little messy, but there's still some structure to it. And I guess my brain is a bit messy. So it just comes out like that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:03   So that's, that's really cool to hear. And, you know, it's, I think a lot, a lot of people out there might have that thinking of, or pressure I should say, or pressure of reproducing something that you know, is beautiful as what the status quo accepted. So that's great to hear that you say that because, you know, it was a testament to itself that you you were able to win an awards just by being original. So you know, what sort of advice would you say to people who kind of just started and struggled to find their voice or, you know, try to find to be where you are right now. And they are still in the emulation sort of period. Yeah, Johannes Reinhart  17:51   I mean, just be yourself. Really, it's, it's sounds simple. And it is it is hard, because I mean, the old trying to fit in, like all of us, and I mean, the older you grow, maybe then you have a bit more luck with that, I just do my own thing, I think he probably really helps. It also really helps that I I had recognition with doing what I do. And then you know, it took like 10 years to get there. And I was sometimes really torn and not knowing what I'm supposed to do and, and but I learned by winning awards, I learned that you know, it doesn't really matter, like it's you just do your own thing and and if you get recognition, that's great. And if you don't get recognition at least you do work that's meaningful to you. And and that's I think that's a bigger price than winning awards. By ending up having photos they mean something to you and I got a couple of projects that that you know, they go a lot deeper and they're a lot more they're kind of important that in my life the kind of key the mark sort of key points and that came out in photography and I have a lot of pretty pictures that are really nice that you could hang up the wall but I don't really I don't have no deeper connection to them so they they're just kind of nice in our and maybe they get likes on Facebook or Instagram but they don't they don't do anything other than just being pretty to me and and I guess for your listeners if you if you just go out and you do you do what you connect with and you do things uy uy just means you like it like this and you're like high contrast or low contrast and it's just do that and and don't worry about you know the likes and what how it resonates with other people initially because if you just posted it just post you what you will really like to do over a period of time you will attract the people who connect to that kind of thing. And then you know in the long run you're gonna get your your recognition run by people liking what you do. And don't worry so much about the gatekeepers. You know, like we all we get recognition from our friends or friends, God is amazing. This is awesome, you know, but we want it from some strange, unknown people like an industry or somewhere that that we don't even know. But we want the recognition from them. And, and I mean, what does what's more important your friends are some random stranger really. So put emphasis on that to just play like, you know, move, move the blocks around a bit and give yourself the freedom to just go and explore. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:36   Yeah, that's that's a really good advice. I think that's, it's really powerful to say that, you know, do what, express yourself and do what do what's right for you and let those people that resonate with you follow you and not worry about those people who doesn't follow you, or doesn't resonate with you. So I think that's a really good advice. So, you know, you were sharing earlier about meeting up with this group of photographers and they were going out together and that kind of sparks back your your photography after kind of a wall, how important it is to have a community and you know, being able to be part of community in terms of progressing your photography, I guess not only just progressing your photography, but also enjoying photography. Johannes Reinhart  21:31   Yeah, I think it's like, for me, it's more enjoying photography and also enjoying connecting to people and, and sometimes I guess we feel, you know, like, I had this from a lot of photographers or artists, they feel a little isolated. I feel like I'm a bit weird. And then you go to a photographer's me, then you go, or I'm not the only weird one. There's, there's lots of us. That's, that's a really nice thing too. You know, I mean, I have friends of our family friends, we have friends who get my photography, and we have friends who just don't get you know that they like to pretty pictures and they go, Oh, that's great. But if I show them like my RT book, then I go it's all a bit strange and random. You know, not not everybody's gonna get it. And, and yeah, photography mates. It's nice to meet those people. And you can, I mean, human connection is like, many when you look at life, I think that's, that's the biggest thing, like your family and friends comes, I think when you all that comes before everything else it will crystallise for I think for most people. And photography is like a way to make friends and to meet people and be don't feel so lonely and isolated, I guess. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:46   Yeah, it's, it's actually really interesting that you say that, because sometimes photography, for me is a good thing. It's a thing to run away and actually be alone and isolated. And I think it's one of the reasons why I like to do Astro photography, because, you know, he was so serene, like, you know, being out there at night. And yet you you don't feel alone, because you know, you get to enjoy all the stars. And it just give me a perception that there's somebody out there. So yeah, it's really, it's really interesting to see that different perspective. And you know, how everyone have that different perspective. So what, sir, yeah, Johannes Reinhart  23:25   good. Yeah, but um, I totally get what you do. And I do that too. And, and I'm an introvert and I need time on on my own, but then it's, it's also really nice to be kind of connected to photographic community. Like, for me, it's a real benefit. To be, you know, to have that community. Yeah. And then, also going out alone. I mean, my best pictures I usually take when I'm on my own, because that's where you can really focus and connect with what you're photographing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:57   Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's very interesting. I mean, like, one of the things that I like about hanging out with like, other photographers is just the inspiration and different perspective that I get learn from them. And, you know, like, for example, when I was meeting you or like, for example, now I'm part of the collective exhibitions, shorts, photo exhibition, and that was that there was a big sort of mind shift in my photography, because I saw some photography that I've never seen before. And I was like, wow, like, you know, possibilities, just analysts. So so that's really cool that you know, you kind of have that realisation and you know, follow that your own path. So how how do you translate a lot of this in terms of to your do your professional work you know, because then you how do you how do people can see is like, Okay, I'll hire Your Highness because he's really good. When a lot of your photo are more like, you know, really artsy and Really, I should say that a lot of people, like you say, hard to resonate with. Johannes Reinhart  25:06   I mean, the ones I've posted are mostly mostly like what I consider the cool photos. And then so that's in other performance ones, a lot of them apply to most of them. And some event photos sometimes I post but mostly it's like work I finished the job and I kind of move on to the next one. So it kind of works because I have enough people who know me and know my work and I've worked for them previously or that you hear recommendations are made my business kind of doesn't run online, it is just like word of mouth and, and I don't actually post that much. I started posting a little bit more with COVID since I lost all my work and then I thought oh, maybe I should post a bit of this what I can do kind of thing for you. Yeah, the business is it's a little bit different as an I photograph to you know, you need a product or you need a promo shot or you need a photo for specific purpose and trying to deliver on that purpose and provide value to you. And I've been very lucky because I shot weddings for almost 15 years. And then I realised I don't have the passion for it anymore. And I thought it's time to move on. And I was really worried that you know, I don't get enough business after because that's my bread and butter. And then I just realised very quickly that I said no to a lot of jobs when you know when when people ring as I can you do this next week, and often they go can you do this next week, and I always had to say no, because I've been booked out with weddings, and I didn't really realise that so so much. So that really helped and I started teaching and then over the over the years I've build up performance photography, especially at fringe and a little bit during the year to that kind of Yeah, just just just by doing it passion first for passion for a while and then you know works kind of crystallised out of that and then more work crystallised out of that. And nowadays, I don't shoot many shows for free anymore, so to speak, you know, the most of them are paid. And when I shoot free, I'm shooting very different. I'm picturing fairy, like I'm trying to get artistic photos, which are sometimes better, or I find them better, but they're really hard to photograph and you missed a lot of good shots, if you follow down at artistic rabbit hole, because then I go blurry, and I go, you know, all sorts of stuff. Because I'm really, in my personal work, I'm experimenting, like a lot, and I just, I just play around in a way. And through the applying, I'm learning and become a better photographer, which then feeds into my professional work that, you know, I have all those tricks up my sleeve that I could, you know, this scenario could do this, and that's an I could do that. And I you know, break it up here a little bit and they and and also realised over the years people book me for my artistry, not just for commercially pretty, like, you know, nice, nice images, they also want a little bit on maybe extra feeling or something. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:18   Yeah, that's, that's really cool. Because, you know, at the end of the day, it's it's come back to what you say about being yourself and then just let those people who can resonate, you know, come to you and not worry about those. So that that really, really good to see how that translate just not only in the personal side, but also to professional so so I want to talk more about your event photography side of things, you know, you take the amazing event photos, performances and stuff like that. Whereas a lot of this angle came from you know, like the the creativity and you know, playing around with the lights and so forth, the poses and so forth. Johannes Reinhart  29:02   Well, depending on where it is, it always often always starts with light, I look for good light. And as an event photographer, especially if performance photographer, you you are a little bit at the mercy of the lighting guy or the lighting, shot out show connections last week that had amazing lighting and now in it, it makes my job to create powerful images like much easier even though I was like a crazy man. But, but you know, like if they liked it well and they have to smoke for extra effect and all that that really adds or like in French, you know, the Spiegeltent shows so much better than some of the other venues where you just have one spotlight, and that's about it and then you a lot more limited in what you can do as a photographer. So light comes first and then the performance because I mostly should live performance. It's And it's really, by, by doing a lot of my doing a lot of photography does this kind of sixth sense to know when to press the button and things line up to you kind of now, I mean, you, you keep a light, you know, is obviously something I pay a lot of attention towards, and then the performance to and and, you know, you soom in and you zoom out and just trying to anticipate what's going to happen next, which then experience experience really helps, you know, like, you've seen a lot of shows and do certain things do you think art is probably going to something, something big is gonna happen? Maybe soon, that I better be ready to capture that, you know, over fire, you know, when I go fire, you know, and you have to then underexposed before it starts. So you're ready, and then and you hope you do, right. And because there's only one goes on often. And then you know, zoom out a bit, because often that that fire goes up. So it's just the experience and trial and error and, and everything I do you I kind of put in a memory bank, and I was like anything you've ser that works, I put in a memory bank. And I just kind of keep building on that. Yeah, that's cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:11   I do that as well, in terms of the memory bank, I think like, you know, you find a little quirky technique that comes up really nice, or that you really like you just like, oh, yeah, that's, that's a good technique, if it and then, you know, eventually, you have so many libraries you could play around with. But, um, and then, sorry, yeah, Johannes Reinhart  31:30   can I just add on to this. The other thing, the obvious thing that I haven't mentioned is, there's also the performance, I mean, they they bring their own artistry and creativity to this day, and their talent to the stage, and that, it kind of makes my job easy in a way, you know, because I don't have to make it all update, they create this world that I then really just kind of capture sometimes. And sometimes I'll fill in my own. Also with the Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:58   with the live performances, you know, I see a lot of your work with the performance photography, it's, it's, it's usually on a dark condition, right, it's really dark, and then you got maybe a spotlight and hence what you say about how light is important. The ticker is true in terms of how do you go about and thinking about you know, because the most important things is in photography is light timing and placement, right, those three really dries the type of photo that you get. So how do you go about this thing? And how do you you know, how do you know when it's how do you decide I suppose not to know because you know, knowing can be from experience, but how do you decide when you want to go to this angle that angle or overexposed underexposed, and so forth. Johannes Reinhart  32:54   A lot of it is it's, it's a bit like being a documentary photographer, or wedding photographer, where you just you kind of photograph and you anticipate what's going to happen next and you think, is just going to be better from this side or that side. Or, or sometimes I like to move around. So it's not all just the same angles, there's not just you know, same angles as a TV camera will be which often is the best angle like the front and centre, you know, but you know, if you run around and you should from the sign up closer and shoot up and you just get more variety for for the client. And then you Yeah, it's really like trusting my gut instinct a lot. Or I'm going oh my god, this is gonna happen I'd better shoot off to the middle again, because then just needs to be photographed in the middle. So it's, it's I think previous visualisation plays a big role in that that you experience the performance especially where you can anticipate you kind of know a few things by seeing a lot of shows that this might go this way or that might go that way. And and then yeah, and then just paying attention to light and your camera settings and under exposes like I'm mostly exposed more to the right so I don't really try and blow on highlights but then sometimes I just go darker and then it's just I say something and I I react to it and I go I got to photograph it this way or that way and everything happens so fast that you really just kind of I don't know like it's like it's being driven Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:30   cool. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you go to this to this performance is the first time isn't it? It's not like you go there once and then you can watch Johannes Reinhart  34:40   a lot of Yeah, on most shows I should one time sometimes i I'm lucky. I should, you know, like, design people who put shows on and then some parts of that is similar as seen a couple of performers that I rephotographed and then sometimes so you design your shows or whatever, start off this I'm going to change it later slide. It gives me more sense of what might happen. But yeah, a lot of them is just reacting to because every time they put on a different show, it's usually it is a different show. And then you just kind of, but that also keeps it really fresh. I mean, if I photographed a snapshot twice, I could, I could improve some photos of that. Definitely. But then by photographing a show once it keeps it fresh, and it's better for the budget of the company twice. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:37   Yeah, like, that's, that's really cool advice. And it's, yeah, I find it great. I mean, I've never really done it myself. But just in my head thinking about, man, how do you know when you know things going to happen? And you know, when kind of placing yourself and especially when you saw it for the first time is, it's almost like you always have to be ready or something like that. A? Yeah. Johannes Reinhart  35:59   I take a lot of photos. Usually. It's not like film. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:06   It's that's the good thing about the digital camera. Right? Yeah. Cool. So now that's awesome. I love how how you share your perspective, or you hear that, you know, go with your gut. I think you said that a lot in this conversation, conversation is that go with your gut, and trust yourself and express yourself. I think those are the few things that are really important. So if you were to go back, let's say, you know, let's say you wake up tomorrow, and you lost all your skills, and you have to start all over again. How would you do? Like, you know, for those of you for those of the listeners who kind of just get started and want to get to it, you know, how would you do it? What are the steps that you would take? Johannes Reinhart  36:55   So what I, what I really, if I lose everything, I kind of want to lose it in a way that I also don't remember that I had the skill before. So I can just be fresh. And the beauty is like, the beauty is, when you don't do photography for very long, that you have this kind of inner sense, and everything is new and exciting and fresh. And I don't have that anymore, because I've been doing it so long. And yes, I can get probably a really good quality consistently. But the images that excite me, for me, it's much harder to get those images, because you just don't find them very often. And when you when you're just starting out, you know, like an image that maybe five years from that time you took it you think, Oh, this is amazing. And three years ago, oh, actually, it wasn't. But at the time was amazing, and a lot more things are amazing. And that, that that is really so beautiful. And I think it needs to be enjoyed. And rather than trying to be somewhere at the top, whatever the top might be, because, um, you know, that all those things are kind of, I feel like they're a little bit concepts, you know, I mean, I don't see myself at the top, I just do my photography. And, and it's, it's really great that I'm very lucky that I have a lot of people connect to my work. I made people who told me that they really love my photography, and I really valued it and, and appreciate it. At the same time, I just kind of do it for myself, it's kind of a little bit selfish, you know, exploring my little rabbit hole of photography, so to speak. And, and, yeah, and, and each stage you are on, like whether you're just starting out, or whether you're doing this for 10 or 20 years, it's, it's, there's a benefit to it, and you but you can't have everything and so just enjoy the state you in and not worry so much about, I guess external validation, that's, I think, a really big tip and just kind of do your own thing and, and ply and feel free and try not to force things too much. You know, I see a lot of people that kind of create it to the block, you know, because they kind of want to do something, but then in any event, I do that myself and you know, like a year and a half ago, I was like I wanted to do some great project, you know, I'm thinking about the outcome. Instead of thinking about the actual project and doing the project kind of freely, you know, I'm thinking about the outcome and because I want the outcome to be great. I put pressure on myself to even you know, even get started and can be blocked to even start which is kind of really the opposite of when you start out and pick up a camera and everything is just kind of playful and nice. And so I guess we all try to keep more of that so and I would really enjoy like you know, just starting out and and not knowing what I was good at and just you know, kind of just playing around. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:59   That's that's cool. I think that's really cool. You know, the fact that you see just focused on on having fun and enjoying it, that's, that's really amazing. We just have that conversation right there. You say something about, you know, just just gonna go your own way, enjoy it have that first perspective and have enjoy that first back first perspective. And as you kind of get get along, the more you do it that that excitement can go away. So, for yourself, um, you know, how do you keep the excitement going like do not burn now in photography, and to keep enjoying photography. Johannes Reinhart  40:41   I mean, I burn out once or twice a year, usually, usually when I work too much, and it's kind of I've gotten, I'll just say, I'm alright with that. I know, I need to back off, like, I just can't work all the time. But then, and then there's also lose my mojo at least once a year, if not three times a year, when I lose my mojo that I don't want to, I don't feel like picking up the camera. And I usually force myself to pick up the camera and just go, you know, I feel like, everything's a bit jaded and bit boring or whatever. And, and I'm not really in the mood to force myself to go out and take pictures, you know. And by going out, I find, you know, once I find something that I just really cool, then that gives me the first spark and then that leads to Oh, that's really cool, too. And then, you know, I got three of really cool things. And then then I'm back in, you know, enjoying photography and, and doing it. So for me, it really works to push myself and force myself not to not to force myself to pick up the camera and, and that will I learn from that, that, hey, I really love this. Because by doing it, I realised how much I actually love just capturing moments and, and looking at things. Because it's also reminds me of when I've been out on a photo walk, you know, and I'm thinking, you know, like, oh, isn't that nice? Here? Yes, I don't have to perfect clouds for this perfect landscape shot that you probably hoping for, you know, but I still find things here and there. And isn't it just nice just to be out in that beautiful environment and soak up the atmosphere even though it's not perfect for photography. And then I thought, you know, that was poor landscape photographer who make a living, they go out and I think ash clouds are wrong. And it's, it's, it's the same sunset at the beach. But it's two different approaches, right? One is like, I'm so happy I can be here and enjoy it. And the others, like our shirt is not working. Because I want perfection. And Perfection doesn't happen every day. And I'm trying to be more than that, that first one, we're just trying to enjoy my environment. Even if I don't get the perfect pictures, and I'm quite famous. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:02   it's interesting that you say like, because I think I'm not well, maybe I'll just speaking for myself, but I feel like a lot of photographers out there are really perfectionist about their art, like, you know, they, they really want to make sure that everything's right that you know that the noise is really low. Well, most of the most of the time, like the viewer actually just enjoy it the way it is. So what have you, you know, what advice or what have you got to say to the listeners out there who really basically stopped progressing further or stopped taking more photo because they're looking for that perfect one photo. Johannes Reinhart  43:42   Yes. Like, open your eyes. And, and I guess, you know, you go down to the beach, just use the beach as an example you go down and, and you want to take this amazing picture of like a shovel of rock, you know, like, iconic web location. And then the clouds is you know, there, you take a really great photo there when the clouds landscape is as always to do the clouds have to be in the right spot. So it frames it just the right way, right. And you want to match them with sunset time. If those two things don't match up, you know, you can go there like 200 times a year and maybe five or six times a year you get something that's close to perfect. And maybe once a year or once every two years from that spot that you think is the best spot to photograph you might only get that once and then but the thing is like when the clouds are a little off you can move left or right to Frank a subject you know so you don't get it from the perfect spot but just by moving around a lot. You can you know work compositionally and then when you open your eyes you can find a lot of other things you know there's this decide Robin Sugarloaf that looks a little bit like a hawk, you know that. You can just take a photo of that and last time I was there after sunset, I was like seagulls landing on and Flying offence I took kind of, you know, sumed in the big lens and, and took photos of that in blurry birds and, and it's really like keeping an open mind, you know, like, look around and keep an open mind and don't get stuck on, I want to take this particular photo and but it's more like reacting to what's around you and making making the most of it working with what you got in and then looking around you know and keep keep looking to see what you find. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:28   Yeah, that's, that's awesome that is really awesome. Like to get those kinds of photos I would imagine because, you know, those, those story that you just told me there, I was just thinking that requires a lot of observation and actually, you know, looking into the different thing and looking actually quite deep into the scene, right? How how long you usually spend in a spot do until you can, you know, come up or notice those quirky things that most people don't notice it. Johannes Reinhart  46:01   Yeah, no, I totally, I don't have much patience. I really thought about taking up painting and it's like, when I see them, I spent like three hours on a painting and it's on quarter finished or something it's like bigger than not for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:22   Yeah, I as Johannes Reinhart  46:23   long as if I don't find anything interesting, then I just usually keep walking, you know, walking around, and then and if I find something interesting, then I stay and linger on and then it depends on because, you know, often the lights good when Mendes happens and then so either now I got a couple hours I go out, you know, I'll go photographing for an hour or two. And then then I need to go home. Because it's like, it's time. So I just want the round. Really just, you know, I go to an area where I think there could be something. And then sometimes the light works, and sometimes the light doesn't work. So it's really like sometimes you got you got it, there's nothing here, you know, and then you just keep walking and, you know, it's always good to be out. That's what I tell myself anyway. And but you have to be out there because it's like hunting and then sometimes in Alabama think oh, there's nothing here then I see this tree and I'm really drawn towards this tree, you know, like, because the branches kind of reach up. And obviously, that's something I really connect with reaching up to the sky at the moment sort of thing and, and then you know, and then I photograph final group composition for that branch. And that, you know, that I find so so amazing at that time. And then the next thing is a bird lands on it. And then I you know, there's just a little extra something and then wait for the bird to be in the right spot. And then And that's like me like spending eight minutes just photographing just this tray with a bird and then I think is time to move on. You know, like the bird hasn't been that the perfect spot, but it's good enough. And I'm kind of I don't feel like engaged anymore. So I move on. I guess that's when I moved home and I don't feel engaged. Wow, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:04   that's really interesting to hear that you are now patient guy because, you know, I saw a lot of that formula requires a lot of patience and you know, observation and actually watching you know, for a while until you kind of see those things. Johannes Reinhart  48:19   Yeah, usually, yeah, like, contract to cut every so I don't, I don't usually wait more than five minutes when I see like an error. I think I'd be a really cool picture and waiting for someone to come through it. And yeah, five minutes is I find it very hard to stand on a street corner without feeling like I'm going to be being up to something better so but by moving around, I mean that's that's a downside to that because I sometimes don't have this, you know, the perfect composition for people just walking through but then I'm not interesting, just pictures of people walking, for example. So when I walk straight and I might see a character that I'm gonna think oh, you know, that looked really interesting and I now over there does this doorway and so I kind of shoot off and trying to get him at that that doorway or, or just kind of react to the scene much more and I think the good side of that is that the photos are kind of more fresh than not as stage so to speak. And and by I think that really worked in the long run for me because sometimes you're lucky and you see something that's, that's out of the ordinary and obviously and then trying to capture it and and also try to capture it well and not just you know, just pointing the camera I'm thinking about okay, where are they going? What see I love it. What can I work with here? You know, sci fi at the beach, and that's this rainbow you know, and obviously none of the normal thing is to photograph the rainbow but then the next step is to step back and go. What else is around kits that can sell something I can use with the rainbow you know, some static element or is there Hey, that's a couple Hey, Guys, do you mind if I take a picture of you in rainbow? And it just kind of work with what you got? Or there's a dog and you chase the dog in front of that in the rainbow maybe or something? I don't know, especially when he left legs up. That'd be a picture anyway. Sorry. Yes, I react to and, and trying to make things work for what I got a lot. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:23   Awesome. So it's more like so literally where you say that you just basically capture a moment when it's there like you don't wait for it to happen. You don't stage us. You say it happens, then you capture it free? Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Well, thanks a lot, Johan, is, you know, it's been a interesting conversation there. And there's a lot of things to do learn from that just both be so philosophically as well as technically in photography. So that's great. Like, thanks a lot for sharing that. So share with us what what kind of because you say you're like working in project, you have a project that you're working on at the moment? Johannes Reinhart  51:08   Yeah, I have one project I worked on for a week last year. It's called What's it called silently falling apart, and then I'm totally blocked to kind of restart it again. So that's going to be an exhibition in the long run, maybe, maybe in 22. Maybe even later, because it's it's a project that I'm trying to go deeper with this one, and I'm trying to really kind of shoot it till I feel like I got nothing left to give in this project not not to finish prematurely. Yeah, so that might be a while. And I guess the resistance is big for this project. So I'm kind of have to work with my own fears of overcoming and try not to put pressure on myself. And I, you know, there's a couple of blocks I've shifted in my head. So I give myself an opening to tell myself just be playful, just just basically see what happens, you know, don't don't make this bigger thing where you don't want to go into just kind of be playful and see what happens. That's, that's where I'm going. But lately, I've been really busy with work again, and then. And then it keeps going to school holidays and an astringent. And this after finishing this kind of an exhibition. And in digital next year, we plan for the book project and, and things just keep moving. Yeah. Awesome. I'll get there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:33   I'm glad to hear I'm looking forward to that. But for the listener who's wanting to hear more about you and wanting to learn more about you where what is the best place for them to find you. Johannes Reinhart  52:46   So the best place is my website that's at www.yohannes.com.au. So Johan is J out h a double n Es. And there's a signup form to my newsletter, I started a newsletter a couple of months ago, that's kind of inspirational newsletter that I show a bit of what I do and then and it's really meant to kind of be more inspirational and not like, you know, like, yeah, it's got my voice a little bit and I think it's, it's quite nice. And then there's photo Mate, I'm going to do a bimonthly photo mate if you're from Perth. So that's where you're going to find out about that. And the productivity tips like yeah, better, like five different little things. And, and that keeps me on my toes and on top of everything else. And then Facebook and Instagram Yanis. Reinhard, yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:40   awesome. Awesome. Yeah, no, no worries, I will make sure that I have all that in in the description. So if you didn't get that, don't worry, it's all gonna be in description. But look, thanks a lot. You're honest, for being with us. And yeah, that was a great conversation there. And we can do so thank you very much for tuning in. And like I say, if you want to learn more about your harness, you can look it up in the description below. You can check out some of his art photos as well as his performance photo. I just love his performance photo. It's it's so it's so unique as well, this is just out there. And don't forget to subscribe below and follow. Let me know in the comment below. What do you think of this conversation? Let me know if you try some of them. You know, Hannah's tips there about coming up with something really different and something that really interesting that helps you to express yourself instead of just you know, taking photo that is the most popular one out there. But thanks a lot for tuning in. We get hunters and I will see you again next week. Until next time, Johannes Reinhart  54:58   thanks so much for having me. Awesome thank you bye  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  What did you think of our chat with Will this week? I had a lot of fun chatting about action photography with Will. In this episode, I talk about some of the things that really resonate with myself. Don't forget to subscribe, hit the notification button and give us some love/comment. Thanks for sharing forward this podcast. For those of you who want to learn more about Will: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WJLPhoto Instagram: www.instagram.com/WJLPhoto www.WillLambertPhotography.com www.WillLambertPhotography.com If you want to watch the video podcast, head to https://youtu.be/JachAV_2XSo  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe

Hey Wicked Hunters, This week we welcome Will. Will is an Ambassador for Ski big 3 here in Canadian Rockies. He is a passionate lifestyle and action photographer. In this podcast chat about action photography and how his passion pushed him to carry 12+ kg on his back every time he goes on a Wicked Hunt. Don't forget to subscribe, hit the notification button and give us some love/comment. Thanks for sharing forward this podcast. For those of you who want to learn more about Will: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WJLPhoto Instagram: www.instagram.com/WJLPhoto www.WillLambertPhotography.com www.WillLambertPhotography.com If you want to watch the video podcast, head to: https://youtu.be/ocy6x9GI1qg Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe

What is photography to you? I can relate very well to this question that Seng Mah encourage for you to ask yourself. Seng Mah is an accredited Australia Institute of Professional Photography.  He has been a photographer and an educator since 2009.  Don't forget to subscribe and leave a comment below, let me know "What is Photography to you?" For those of you who want to learn more about Seng Mah: Website: https://venturephotography.com.au/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sengventure/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VenturePhotographyWorkshops If you want to watch the video podcast, head to: https://youtu.be/pnQEW3kAQYU  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ------------------------- Transcription:   Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:01   Hey Wicked Hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our passion and how it helps us to find hope, purpose and happiness in our life. So, hopefully you guys have a good week, how, how have you guys been? You know, what do you think of that last podcast? Please let me know in the comment below so that I could, I could hear some feedback, you know, maybe let me know if there are some part of photography that you want to ask this guest and you know, understand a little bit more from their perspective, because that will be amazing. I would love to hear your not only your opinion, but also different perspective and different questions that I can put out there. To this such an inspiring and full of wisdom guests. So Unknown Speaker  1:07   this week, we had sang MA and sang was very my very first mentor in photography, I should say, when I left them, or before I left my job, I took a follow his his photo, walkabout or photo, like a local photo, like shoot kind of thing. And also learn how to use speed light or flash from him. And he's he's an amazing photographer who control lights very well. And yeah, that that course was just blow me out of the water. And, as you all know, which you should, because I've been saying this every single week is that light is the most important thing in photography. Okay, so going back to our conversation. I think one of the thing that you asked was that, you know, fill this blank fill this line, I think photography, because and I think that is very important to me when he was one of the most important part of that interview. I mean, there's, there's so much wisdom in there. And there's so much, so much so many interesting perspective that he brought out about, you know, whether or not art is photography? And, you know, what, sort of what sort of photographer? Are you? Are you a landscape photographer? Or are you a wildlife photographer? Or are you a portrait photographer? And then you also talk about, you know, how, how does the storytelling kind of fit in with photography, and so forth. But one of the very important thing that he mentioned there was, at the end of the day, a lot of that have been defined by someone else. But it is very important for you to create a definition for yourself, create a label for yourself. Why do you take photography? What was the first thing that got you interested in photography that, you know, the very first time? And was it the landscape? Was a document in your travels? Was it the wildlife? Was it the wildflowers or, you know, whatever it may be? And he said, In this podcast, it is very important that you define that for yourself so that you could actually enjoy photography. And let's face it, we're doing this because we love photography, right? We, you know, most of the photographers out there, especially the professional one, they they make a living around photography, because they love photography, because they're passionate about it. And those people like those of you who take photo, you don't take photo for the sake of taking photo, you take photo because you have photography, right? No one ever forced you to take photo. Well, at least I've never heard anyone that's, you know, being forced to take photo, apart from maybe those Instagram, boyfriends and girlfriends congratulations. But, you know, we talk about a lot of things. We cover a lot of things in this one and we talk about how in social media, it kind of takes away a lot of that expression for yourself a lot of fulfilment, a lot of that creativity, you know, and is that a bad thing or is a good thing? Well, actually saying talk about both, you know, you talk about both the positive and the negative and one thing that I think really important from all this is going back to your purpose and going back to why you shoot in the first place. And when, when the very last of the interview when I, when I asked him is like, Hey, I'm saying, so what advice would you give a photographer, especially new one out there who just started. And one of the things that he talks about was like filling this blank, you know, I take a photo because or I do I practice photography, because and by doing that, you know why you started photography in the first place, why? Why you want to express yourself to a form of photography. And from there, he talked about how you could create something that is truly unique, or you could create something that is popular, and that is up to you, you know, at the end of the day, it's for you, it's for your sake, it's for your happiness, Unknown Speaker  5:54   whether how to create a story around how to carry a powerful photograph. But at the end of the day, if you don't have that definition in mind, and you've you don't have that definition at the back of your head, you don't have the purpose and the drive to make that happen. And therefore, you might not have as a good wrestle or resolve to make that happen and make that story kind of, you know, cemented into people. And it's very true, you know, we are in social media for a main purpose that we want to excavate our photography, we want to be able to reach more people. And for those of you in business, we want to hopefully turn those people or fans into, you know, a customer, but at the end of the day, don't lose yourself in there, right. I think one of the reason why I do I do photography is because I want to share more of my photos, a unique perspective of my photos, to more of you out there, you know, a different, a different scene, I mean, how many of you are able to climb a mountain in the middle of the winter, on a split board on a negative 25 degrees Celsius, staying pretty much the whole night until the next day, and the next morning watching Aurora, and you know, those kinds of things, I really want to share that with you. And one of the things that I want you guys to explore more. But, you know, I still do, I still do Instagram and I still want to get the likes, I still want to get the comments, but it's, it's not as important for me compared to reaching the right people and reaching those of you that actually reaching the people that actually have a meaning to towards my photography or have a connection towards my photography. So yeah, just really, really good advice that st gave you. And if you just start photography, try to find that voice very early on. There is no problem of copying other people work and other people perspective when you just started. But you know, quickly, quickly get out of it and use your basics and create one that you can call your own that you can be proud of that you get fulfilment from. Or I will have those Thank you very much for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe. And also, don't forget to follow the podcast if you're listening on the audio version. But most importantly, feedback is very important. So let me know what you think I'm sharing the comment below. What was the what do you think of the this blurb that I just talked in the past 15 minutes or one? And also, what was the interview like and what are some of the questions that you want to hear more from this awesome photographers out there. Okay, until next time, we get on to this and hopefully you guys have a great weekend. Catch you later.  

What is photography to you? Seng Mah is an accredited Australia Institute of Professional Photography.  He has been a photographer and an educator since 2009.  In this episode, Seng and I talked about What is Photography to You and How to Capture photos that bring fulfilment to yourself.  For many of us, photography started as a way to document what we've witnessed. From being able to capture unique moments, to be able to share those moments with our loved ones, to be able to inspire others through your photography. Photography means differently for everyone but one thing we have in common is the way it brought us fulfilment.  Don't forget to subscribe and leave a comment below, let me know "What is Photography to you?" For those of you who want to learn more about Seng Mah: Website: https://venturephotography.com.au/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sengventure/  If you want to watch the video podcast, head to: https://youtu.be/uYxJ1l9DL2Q  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe -----------------------  Transcription: Seng Mah  0:00   When you start to think very clearly about what it is that you do, and why you do what you do, a lot of it comes not from this whole notion of photography, but whatever it is that fulfils you as a person Hey, wiki hunters, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:24   welcome to another podcast or the art of photography podcast. I almost forgot my own podcast name there. My apologies. Yeah, I mean, it's really exciting. It's been an amazing journey. It's been really inspiring, just not for not only for you guys, but also for me talking to this amazing photographers and sharing their wisdom. And their knowledge is just really amazing. I actually have not only watched them once or twice up, watch multiple times, and going back over again. So really, really awesome to hear this guys just share their knowledge. And, yeah, today we have one of my early mentor when I first started photography, actually, I learned one of the flash technique flash. Yeah, one of the techniques from him. And he's, it's, that was like, it's crazy. We'll talk a little bit more about it. But this is saying and he is one of the he runs photography trips all around the world. And he is one of the the go to person, I suppose I think for people in Perth. So Sam, how you doing? Welcome to Seng Mah  1:39   the Yeah, thanks, Stanley. Good to be here. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:43   Yeah, I can't I can't believe how long it did. It's been isn't it? Seng Mah  1:46   Yes. A long time. I've been running the business for 11 years now. What do you think you came? You came in a few years ago? Right? Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:55   Yeah. So I actually sorry, yeah. So I came in, I think three times to have the walkthrough and I remember I booked two of the the photo walk about with you with you. And then I forgot I, I I had the reservation wrong. Or I thought I had grown reservation and went to the wrong location. It was so funny. Seng Mah  2:20   Like, oh, yeah, that was in Fremantle, you went to the wrong location. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:23   I went did the one next week or something else? Like yeah, yeah, that Seng Mah  2:29   was one of the days. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:32   yeah. But yeah, I mean, like, so like, I've, I've learned a lot from you. And, you know, watching you're not only from your workshop, we're also watching your photography and the way you compose and the way you vision a lot of the scenery. So just tell us a little bit about yourself. So the listeners know about you, and maybe a little bit of origin story of you know, how this photography, passion come about. Okay, Seng Mah  3:04   I'll try and keep it as brief as possible. Otherwise, it just gets gets a little bit too long. So my name is Seema, and I'm based in Perth in Western Australia. I've been living here for about 37 years now. Prior to that, I was I was actually born in Malaysia, but came here as a young person with my family and things like that. I run a business called Venture photography workshops and tours. And it's got two branches of it workshops is the education part of it. So as Sandy mentioned earlier, I teach photography, a whole gamut of different things from beginners all the way down to advanced lighting and portraiture, landscapes and so on. But then I also run photography tours, which was great, up until around, I suppose, march 2020, when, when the will and the pandemic kind of shut things down. And so at the moment, I'm just running tours in Western Australia. And which is the state, I mean, in Australia, and, and I run my photography classes. with some regularity, it's my I'm a full time professional photographer. I also do also do commercial photography. On the side as well. So yeah, so as a photographer, but I teach photography, and I take people that were on photography trips, you asked me about my passion, I think, I think a lot of us get into photography just because we like creating things and and one of the things Chai got me to photography was really kind of just, in a way kind of documenting moments. And I guess, you know, the moment now my preferred genre in photography is travel and documentary. And I think it comes from the fact that I do enjoy documenting moments. And then just from basically using my dad so they can film camera. I kind of graduated around 2004 2005 I got my first digital SLR and things basically progressed from there. So I've been running venture photography workshops and tours for about 11 years now. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:54   Wow. 11 years. All right. Seng Mah  4:59   It feels so good. It was like only last year that I started, so it's obviously enjoying it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:05   Did you actually study photography or Seng Mah  5:07   no, I'm self taught and when you call yourself God, it's it's an interesting thing in photography, I find that it's probably one of those fields that you can get into without actually having to complete any kind of formal qualification. And from my understanding, in terms of the sorts of formal training that you do, takes two sides of it once the practical industrial side. So basically, you learn how to take photographs, you learn how to work as a professional photographer, so that you can do commercial work, or portraiture work and or weddings or things like that, learn a bit about the marketing side of things. And then the other side of it is probably more the history and theoretical side of things that looking at photography within the framework of, I suppose the history of photography, and the work of other photographic practitioners and people who are working in a whole range of different styles and genres and things like that, and relating photography back to the whole notion of, of art in a way of seeing and stuff like that. And I think, you know, quite often, to be a good photographer, you really need this great combination of both of them. One thing and the other, in order to be able to produce the great images, but also to be able to understand where the images that you're producing, where they sit in relation to what has been produced before what has been created at the moment and what possible paths may be taken in terms of photographic image making into the into the future as well. So I think it's a, it's quite often a nice balance, then, in some respects, because I'm completely self taught. And I actually come unfortunately, I come from a fine art background as well. So I studied fine arts at university years and years and years ago. So while I know the practical side of photography, and the pragmatic side, you know, how to how to teach photography, how to, you know, shoot, how to use lighting, and all that. I also understand photography as a form of artistic expression and weights, it's at the moment in relation to all the work that's come before, and potentially weighed nearly down the down the line as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:19   That's, that's amazing, I think, you know, there's a lot of a lot of not only, like, I guess, false perception that photography is, it's not considered art. And I really, really glad that you mentioned that, you know, that there is a two things to photography, one of one of them is the artistic side of things, and other one is like more of the technical side with the camera and so forth. So what, why would you like zero, like, consider photography as an art? Because, you know, nowadays everyone can kind of take photos, right? I mean, the new iPhone takes such an amazing photos. And would you consider like those photos as an art as well? Or, you know, what do you think, share us your thoughts? Seng Mah  8:08   Well, let me just answer that with another example. Because he gave an example of the iPhone and people being able to take images and all that. So let's say for example, I have a wall in my home. Okay, I have a few choices. I'm going to paint if I got a few choices, right, I could buy a big tub of paint and just paint a wall and said Painted cream, neutral vanilla cover, colour, paint a wall cream, and I've created a painting, correct? Yeah. Or I could, you know, take a mix of colours and I could splash the colour around on the wall and I could just create a multicoloured rainbow splattered wall. So I've also created a painting or I could buy more colours and more paint and I could paint landscape scenery on the wall and I've actually created a painting or I could instead by a very large canvas and paint something else on the canvas and I've created a painting as well. So which one would you consider? In which one would you not consider? So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:08   I have never heard that analogy before. That's That's amazing. I think for Yeah, for those people who kind of don't see it as an art that's the ad is amazing. I'm definitely gonna I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna take the copyright Seng Mah  9:28   thing. Yeah, so I guess just to kind of kind of prevaricate on what you're saying a little bit, as well. I guess the thing with photography is, photography emerged, I guess, historically, almost in direct competition to what was perceived as art back at that time, because suddenly there was the ability to create a way of capturing or documenting representing a scene which, you know, compared to now two ages, but back then was a lot faster and Perhaps more realistic in its depiction then then painting. So it created this massive kerfuffle, in terms of what would you consider them? You know, what is photography? Where does it sit? Is it? Is it a tool? Is it? Is it something that's used to record an aspect, or representation of reality? Or is it an art form is it just another way of expressing the inner vision or the artists vision in that sense, they created a massive kind of paradigm shift in the, in the art world, and I guess, because photography, and the use of the camera, which is basically a light box, this captures light is different from, say, for example, being a sculptor or a painter or something along the lines of an artist in that sense, because photography is in the service of a whole range of different potential outcomes. So say, for example, you could photograph something to record it, like, you know, real estate photographers photograph homes inside and out to provide a an advertisement for it, you could create that so it serves a very pragmatic functional outcome, in that, in that respect, there, you could use it to take portraits of people essentially document what people look like. And that's another kind of really kind of very pragmatic functional purpose to photography, you could use it to record events, you could use it when you're travelling to record, your travel experiences, and things like that, so has a very practical reason for for photography. And I think, because a lot of people experience photography, through this practical aspect of it, you know, think about it, your earliest memories of the photographs, you know, it's quite often family photographs, photographs itself of itself as a baby taken by parents or grandparents and so on and so forth. You might see photographs, you know, from say, you know, your parents generation, your grandparents generation, from their travels, from the trips from the, you know, family gatherings at home, and all that. So your introduction, as most people's introductions to photography will be some level of representation of their lives in a sense that, even if he was someone born, you know, within the last 15 years, or 10 years, their introduction of photography would be images they've seen on the phone or the tablet, and it's basically slow recording. So because of that, I think we tend to perceive photography, less as a, an art form, and more as something that is like a documentary documenting, recording kind of process. But at the end of the day, you know, the camera is still a box that captures light is a technology in that box that has changed over over time, and changed a lot more rapidly recently, obviously. And so the way in which that particular box that particular tool is used, and reason in which is used defines the actual product, whether it is a documentary thing or whether it's actually something quite artistic, you know, we always fall down to tools now the the analogy of the paint on the walls and the paint on the canvas, for example. Or if you've got rock and a sculptor with a hammer and different types of chisels, those are the tools at the end of the day, it's just a set of tools and, and what it actually creates, can then be regarded as to whether it's something that's pragmatic, so you know, they might, the sculptor might produce column for a pillar to hold up a wall. Or it might they might produce a sculpture or such and such, for whatever artistic purpose in there, I think, you know, when people say beauty is the eye of the beholder, I think what is art is in the eye of the Creator. And, and quite often artists defined by a marketplace as well. So you know that there are commercial entities out there, who work very hard for their own purposes, commercial purposes, to define what is art and what isn't. And I think there's always going to agenda behind this definition of art. And unfortunately, a lot of people who work in the creative field agonise over whether what they're producing is art or not. And I think they spend far too much time agonising about it, rather than thinking about what it is they're producing, and then working hard to do something with what it is that they're producing, whether it be using a column to hold up a wall, or are they producing a beautiful sculpture, they need to define what it is that they're what they're doing. So So I guess, in answer to that question, in a very long, convoluted way is why don't we just start by defining what art means to us and what we produce, and then go from there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:47   That's awesome. That is, wow, it's just so much wisdom. That's, I never hear it in that perspective. And that's amazing to hear that in that perspective and the way you put it I love how you say, you know, a camera, even though with all the technology nowadays, at the end of the day is just a box. And you're right, you know, at the end of the day, the camera one click by itself, you know, you have to set it up, it's all in your hand as, as a creative, you know, the creative creator. So that's exactly, yeah, I totally love that, that you mentioned that. So you talk about document photography there and, you know, like, how the document, document tree photography might not be considered as much as art compared to like, a lot of those, like, you know, the fine art or the illustrative because, you know, the illustrative are a lot more closer, because you don't actually take that realistic kind of image. But, you know, it gives you the creativity in there. I personally think there, there is a lot of art in documentary. And I think you do too. And I would love for you to talk about that. What what your thoughts on the in terms of documentary photography, especially when you travel and stuff like that, you know, and how it relates to the art side of things. Seng Mah  16:17   I think at the end of the day, if you're going to look at documentary photography, and travel photography, they all serve a particular purpose. And I think you need to define what it means to you. For me, everything starts with a definition for yourself. So you know, you can you can travel and create fine art pieces. When you travel, as you know, you could you know, you could travel to Canada and then create a beautiful wintry landscape that you perceive as being an artistic expression of your heightened sense of isolation, or loneliness or something like or peace or calm or an end, it might look really pretty, and people might buy it for their own homes, or it might resonate with someone else. And they are drawn to it for purely emotional reasons. So in that way, you can create what is essentially thought of as artistic photography, when you're travelling, you can also create illustrative work while you're travelling because you take a picture of a tree, a picture of a chapel, Hill, and you Photoshop it all together, you can create those things. So you're creating something out of that through the process of travelled. So at the end of the day, you still need to be able to define for yourself what you mean by documentary photography, and what you mean by by travel photography. And for me, when I define it, it's very, it's, it coexists together because when I travel, I'm documenting something, in terms of the travel and the travel photography, part of it simply means that when I travel, I'm looking at being able to photograph a sense of place and a sense of culture, a sense of community, in the sense of people in the, in the environment, which I'm actually travelling in. So that is that is my own definition of travel and documentary photography, it's about, it's about, you know, conveying a moment, an emotion, a story that's based on human activity, for example, or a place to draw my photography there. And if someone else resonates with it, and wants to call it art, that's great. I sometimes will call it art. But, you know, in order I think I call ourselves photographers, you know, in that sense there, and then when we're interrogated a little bit further, we might then start to go into genres of photography, like, you know, a travel photographer, or a documentary photographer, and stuff like that, then anything beyond that, I think there's a lot of soul searching that comes into it. But it's an interesting point that you talk about this art versus photography dichotomy, because as you know, within the photographic circles in the community, there appears to be a little bit of a backlash against things which are photographic in origin, but a lot of people don't consider photographs. So the illustrative work, for example, where people construct images from photographic sources, you know, a tree that was taken in their church or was taken in their cloud taken somewhere else, you know, a flock of birds taken somewhere else, and then they composited together. So the a lot of people who get up in arms and say, That's not photography, you know, that is art. Or that is, that is, elicits an illustration, in fact, we have the category Courtland street photography, in of itself, it's almost as if we need to categorise this thing. So that's the complete opposite of it, isn't it saying like, well, is art now we can call it photography, you know. So I think those things are constantly being defined and redefined. And it just get back to the fact that at the end of the day, you have to be really true to yourself, and you have to define it for yourself first, because once you find something for yourself, it makes explaining your work a lot easier. So what I often tell people to do, even if they're new to photography, and they don't know what they like photographing and all that is, if you can take a blank page, and just let whatever's in your head stream out in terms of what it is. So you say, you know, I like to and you just write, write, write, write, write, that's the first step in being able to define what it is that what is this that you you like photographing, and how you're going to go about defining what photography means for you. To begin with. That's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:22   that's amazing. I think one thing that I really like, from that point that you bring is that defining something for yourself. And, you know, in this media era, and the social media era, I think, a lot of times, and you know, I'm one of those person where I, when I started, I was defined by everyone else, instead of you finding for yourself. Mm hmm. And then like, after a while, like, you know, you you get, you lose kind of the passion because you stopped taking photo for yourself, and, you know, you stop taking photos to express yourself. And I think like, especially in the photography era, one of the things that I love about photography is just the way that everyone perspective is different. And you know, like, it's just, it's like, you don't have to be the same. That's what makes it great. Like, the difference is what makes it great. So, I'm really glad that you mentioned that. Yeah, so, I mean, you do a lot of different genres of photography, isn't it? You go from trade to commercial to travel to documentary? If you're like, you know, what's your favourite? And or, you know, like, what, what do you like, out of those things? You know, there's not a lot of people that actually like to do all, all the different genre, because most people are either like a landscape or a portrait or wildlife and so forth. And how did you kind of like, get into, get that exposure to all these different genre? Seng Mah  21:52   It's really interesting, because I never actually come from a position where I let what I do as a photographer be defined by other people. People like categories, people like labels. So they quite often ask questions like, what kind of photography? Do you a landscape photographer? Or are you a portrait photographer? Or are you your animal photographer? Do you like wildlife and all that, and those are categories, right? Those are labels. And I think a lot of people who start off in photography, they think that they have to fix they have to, they have to be able to fit into one of these little pigeon holes, this little boxes, in order to be able to then start to define what it is that they do. And this is where the kind of self reflection comes in really handy. Because I think, when you start to think very clearly about what it is that you do, and why you do what you do, a lot of it comes not from this whole notion of photography, but whatever it is that fulfils you as a person, right? So, I'm a person who enjoys learning about other people. I'm a person who enjoys connecting with other people engaging with other people, I'm actually, you know, they're very curious about other people's lives. Before I took up photography. In a very serious way, I also wrote a lot like what stories and stuff like that. So that's, that was a storyteller. Enjoy storytelling. So it was a curiosity about creating things about people's lives, and often talk to people and try to find out more about their lives and all that. So if you look at that aspect of it, that translates into an interest in people. And through photography, how do you basically represent an interest in people, you take pictures of people, you take portraits of people. So that's where the portraiture comes in. And then again, you know, with landscapes and all that, you know, there's a part of me which enjoys the natural world immensely, and you enjoy going out and you enjoy seeing beautiful scenery, and you look at beautiful light. And how do you go about expressing that creatively when you're a photographer, or you become a landscape photographer, and that basically, then leads you on to try a whole range of different techniques, you know, you learn to photograph in the right light, you learn to chase that light, you learn to work with a light that nature has given you at a particular point in time, regardless of whether it was the light you're looking for or not. You learn other techniques, you know, that comes through like your long exposures, for example, using filters on your focus stacking, and, in your case, your astrophotography, you know, that comes through in that aspect of it as well. So that's also sort of different than in your, in your wilderness photography, for example, you know, the pristine landscapes that you find in the Rockies and things like that. So there is that aspect of it that appeals to me and it still comes from the heart comes from a part of your spirit that says, I relate to the beauty in the natural world, right. You know, so there's that aspect of it and how do you go about finding more and more about the way Oh, well, you know, you travel for example, I have an interest in culture and history. So a lot of my travel and because I've got a background in art, as well as literature for some strange reason, one of the things I love doing was basically to go to museums and stuff like that when I'm travelling, and I love going to those all historical towns, because I've read about it I've seen, I know the history of those areas. So it's about relieving that, that thing that when you go and travel there, you know, so how do you express that love of have new new worlds and new lands and new towns and all that kind of stuff? How do you express that love of being able to see for your very eyes, ancient history manifests in front of you? Well, you do that through your travel photography, travel photography. So I think, for me, and it's probably true for a lot of people. Those labels don't mean anything, because for me, it's really about this is my interest. So I photograph, what I'm interested in. This is what resonates with me. So I photograph what resonates with me, it just happens to apply, people can apply labels to them. So that's why people say, oh, you know, you photograph portraits, and you photograph landscapes, and you photograph, the travel and all that, you know, so people apply those categories. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, all you're doing is you're a photographer, and you're making images of things that you like, and, and experiences that resonate with you. That's, that's all it is. So, so that's, that's, for example, is a reason why, you know, I'm not that interested in say, Photographing Flowers, that doesn't appeal to me, I'm really not that interested in photographing birds, because it doesn't appeal to me, you know, the sorts of things so I don't go around chasing little spiders and insects and all that with a macro lens, because I'm not interested in it. So for me, photography is really about fulfilling what interests me. And acknowledging also that interests change over time, I may find new things that are very interesting to me. And then I may then pursue them photographically, and if there's a label that goes in it, great, if there isn't, well, that's fine as well. That's, that's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:03   great. Yeah. You know, I totally can resonate with that, because I'm, I'm a bit like that, I just like to take photo, whatever and reason why I like to take foot off the stars, there's just a lot of, I grow to I get frustrated being some just always struggling with a lot of people, especially when here in the Rockies, you know, with the monitors here. And when you do Astro it's like photography, what photography was meant to me when I started was it was more like a meditation, it was like me and the camera and the nature or with whatever it is, I shoot, you know, whether it's a portrait or wildlife. So that's, that's why I kind of get into more of the Astro because of that reason, but it's not necessarily that I you know, I like to shoot Asher more than the sunset. I love sunset photos. You know, they're amazing. But just that when I do sunset, and sunrise, usually there's like 20 Other people next to me. And, you know, sometimes you just want to be by myself. And for that reason, I tend to be shoot more Astro. So that's pretty Seng Mah  28:11   much an expression of your own personal interest is your own the way you are as a person, right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:17   Yeah. Yeah, that's great. But so what do you think of the social media? How does that impact the perception of photography and how it can shape the photography nowadays, especially for those of you who just started, right, because this is all day know, if they just started, you know, or someone like you, you have that different understanding of what art is. But for those people that can just start it, they might not see anything past Instagram photography, you know, what do you think about? Yeah, but that, Seng Mah  28:54   but the first thing that I've got to say is, I think what social media has done for photography and photographers is it's actually made a lot of people very aware about the value of the visual image, as opposed to basically just say, someone writing a long essay, and posting it on a blog or something along the lines of that. So Instagram, for example, is clearly a very visually driven social media platform. And so what it's done is actually foreground for a lot of people that photographs, images, visuals are incredibly important, as part of this social media transaction that takes place. So that's a really good part of it, because basically, it's making photography very prevalent in the eyes and minds of a lot of people. Obviously, there's a flip side of it, in a sense that what happens then is people begin to limit themselves in terms of what images they actually take, because they almost in a way kind of mimic or duplicate what has been deemed successful before so you know, the thought the sorts of silly talking about selfies, but it's not just a selfie, it is a particular style. I'll have selfie. You know, a lot of influences are practically, quote unquote Instagram models, because they are producing images that look very kind of fashion editorial, whatever it is that you're promoting or influencing on your platforms. They are, they are being photographed for photographing themselves or whatever it is they're photographing in a way that fulfils the need to gain more followers or, or promote a product or something along the lines of that. So even though everyone sort of realises that there is a greater need for visual images, the variety is being reduced the variety and visual imagery that we produce because of social media has been reduced to a kind of repetitive duplication of what people deemed to be successful. It's in in photographic circles, it's kind of like, you know, someone taking a picture of something like that BlueBoard sharing Crawley in Perth, for example. And then it's successful. So everyone else goes there. And we repeat the same process because they believe that photographing that subject in that light from that angle can repeat that success. But what it simply does is it creates a super saturation of the image. So the power of the original image is so watered down by that, that repetition itself. Think about the one like a tree, for example, right in New Zealand, the soul autumnal tree in the lake growing out there, I'm sure the first time it was published, it blew the minds of people away. But now we look at it. And we don't even give it a second glance because the you know, immediately so supersaturated images, you know, in Juana Korean and even in Canada, for example, I know that's a really blue lake, I think is like the mountains coming down, or Lake Louise and Moraine Lake, Moraine Lake, there's so many images taken from the same lookout positions, that initially it looks amazing. But eventually it's like, well, you know, nice, you just kind of move on. So I think, I think what social media has done is it's actually created this, this repetitiveness in the way people take photographs, you know, people very cynical people, basically look at this whole thing where they can pull off very similar looking images, you know, someone in rejected standing in front of the giant waterfall in Iceland, for example, or someone on a rock in the weight jacket, and a hat overlooking a lake, that images that those images have been repeated, ad nauseam. So it's created this kind of a culture of imitation rather than a culture of of originality, because I think the purpose of imagery in social media is actually governed not by the desire to actually create an image. But the desire to gain some level of fame, or notoriety through social media, and not so much wanting to actually create images. And for one reason, I mean, if you ask yourself, right, why am I putting images on social media? I get every person listening to this, who uses Instagram and asked them the answer this question, why am I posting this photograph on social media in my Instagram? And what would the answer be? What's your answer? If you post a picture on Instagram? Why do you post on Instagram? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:19   My, my answer to post is that to share my, my travel and my whatsapp experience with other people, and, you know, those, that's why I like to take those views that are quite unique, because I want to show people you know, that unique perspective that people never experienced and share that kind of thing. But yeah, you're right. I think a lot of them a lot of part of the is also to get that likes, and also to get that comments, right. Get that sense of confirmation saying that, you know, yes, you are doing the right thing. Yeah. So So there is two things that and I think some people can have, kind of have habit more towards one or the other depending on what they're doing. I'm not sure if that's how you feel as well. Seng Mah  34:09   Do you use hashtags on Instagram? Totally. Why? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:15   That's mainly because for the business perspective side of things, and Seng Mah  34:20   people can find your images, right, so people can find work for the Instagram algorithm. And it increases exposure increases, like so the reason you're posting on Instagram is purely driven by the fact that you are trying to gain some level of exposure and gain some level of you know, and that's the reason why I post on Instagram is I have no use of Instagram at all. So I don't use Instagram as a microblogging of my daily life or anything like that. I lead a very boring life if I were to deliberately post my life on Instagram will be like coffee, coffee, breakfast cereal, you know, his his me driving to the shops, you know, it's, this is completely unglamorous life. So we create fictions on Instagram. We create the Shouldn't in social media, and I think that's what social media excels in is excels in allowing us to curate the way we present ourselves and the way we present our work to the world. It's almost like having like a micro exhibition or having a publishing mini book, except this one just keeps going on and on and on and on and on. So so the impact of social media for me on on photography is that it encourages a lot of photography, it doesn't matter what medium you're using, what camera you're using, it encourages a lot of photography that encourages a lot of self reflection, and curation, about your own photography, these things are extremely good things to have in your mind, when you're a creative person, to be able to reflect and analyse your own work to basically curate your own work so that you're not just putting rubbish out there is a great things. But on the other hand, they're all kind of being moving in a direction of essentially mimicry and imitation, rather than the creation of original stuff, stuff that may not resonate with other people. Stuff that may not garner the likes and followers and everything else that comes that comes with it. So yeah, we are we are doing the right thing in terms of curating and all that. But we're probably curating it in a direction that doesn't actually allow for the exploration and the expression and the presentation of a more personal vision. That's my take on it. Anyway. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:27   That's, that's very interesting for you to say that. Yeah, I think you're definitely right, right there. Instagram kind of help photographers to kind of get out there and share their story and all that stuff, as well. But I think that the other side of thing is that people saw this popular photo that got that is successful. And then they get really fixated with that. And I think the really sad thing about this, like, like what you say, you know, like, when you do it on Instagram, you do, you will always want to try to do one for you know, the followers and the licence stuff. But also, from my perspective is like, don't stop creating for yourself. So, you know, I think one of the one of the education that I got from marketing on Instagram was saying that, yes, do you do your you know, do your popular posts, and then put it out there, but don't discount the photo, that really means something to you, and then don't worry about how many likes, you're gonna get on it, because you already get that likes from, you know, this popular one. So yeah, there's definitely a really hard balance there to take right now. Seng Mah  37:41   But I think the danger there is to actually approach things like that with a level of maturity and a level of self awareness as well, a lot of people no longer they stop taking pictures of what it is that they are appealing to them, they're taking pictures of what's popular, because they are using social media purely as a popularity contest. So I think that's a that's actually quite a sad part of it in the sense that a lot of people who are very, very skilled, very skilled and have the ability to create very fine images, but it it's almost kind of being driven in a direction of creating what's popular, what's what's going to appeal to the market. It's a very business oriented kind of approach, you know, rather than creating images that, that appeal to them, and who cares what happens, let the images find the market, let the images find its viewers rather than creating images for an anticipated or expected audience and always, but at the end of the day, that's what art is, you know, do you create art, because you know, it's going to sell in order to sell, it's got to basically appeal to a particular audience, right, a particular aesthetics? Or do you create art, and hope that it finds its audience and through finding its audience, you find a market for it? You know, which one's the easier one to do? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:58   Yeah, totally. I think what you say is very correct. You know, it's, it's a shame that a lot of people that have that potential or new perspective, get kind of beaten down, and I, you know, that was me for definitely, it was me, when I started I was, I was an Instagram photographer, I go to places that looks great on Instagram. And we thought having second thought I would take that particular spot, I was like, where is that perspective taken for? And I took that and it took me a while until I realised that man, like, you know, like, this is not why I got here, you know, my mission was to, to actually show people, the world the unseen worlds, like why am I taking the photo that people take forever? All the time. So I think that that, that message that you see you have to be true to yourself and define it for yourself is like really a homerun for a lot of this because at the end of the day, like a lot of us see photography as a way to express ourselves and as a creative outlet in In our life, right? And I think like there's a lot of people that even though they do like a full time job a nine to five as an accounting or whatever they may be that photography become their creative outlet. So yeah, don't let that go away from from you. So that's great. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you mentioned that you used to, used to, you're interested, you're very interested on people people's story. And, and also, like, you know, history, how does that have? How that storytelling have reflected your photography? And how that kind of translate from, you know, like words to do to basically a single frame even? Seng Mah  40:45   Yeah, storytelling is one of those new buzzwords that have actually popped into photography? Well, it's always been in part of photography, but at the moment, it seems to be in everyone's consciousness, partly because I think a lot of competitions have judges to go on and on and on about how an image must tell a story and all that. So that's a, that can be, that can be quite a confusing thing for people to kind of think about, but a photograph photographs as a static image in one frame. So how can you tell a story about about a photograph in that setting image, the way, the best way I can relate to that basically, is let's say, for example, you are in a bookstore, and you are browsing books, or in the library in your browsing books, now, you're not going to be able to read every single book there. Alright. So how do you assess which books are essentially going to appeal to you, you might look at the title, you might look at the cover, you might look at the author, and then you might open to the first chapter or the first few paragraphs, and then you read it. Now there's got to be something in that initial process, that's going to basically give you an indication that you want to read more, so you will borrow or buy the book, okay? And what is the thing that actually gets you to decide that you're going to invest more time in that book, because you know, when you read a book, you're basically telling, telling yourself and telling the world, hello, take three days of my life that we'll never get back, because I'm going to invest it in reading this book, or we're gonna watch a movie, okay, it's gonna be an hour and a half of my life, I'm never gonna get back up two hours of my life, and we're gonna get back. So I'm going to, you better be good, right? And what is the thing that actually pulls us in and makes us commit that aspect of our life, which we have in limited supply to that, and that's where the story lies. It's, it's the hint, it's the hook that basically says, hey, it's worth investing, time, and emotion, and to commit to this particular book, or film, or in the case of photograph. So the way I basically say we talking about storytelling and photograph is the same concept coming through here, there has to be a hook, there has to be something that captures the interest of the viewer, and asks the viewer to commit time in engaging with that photograph. In other words, the viewer is almost in a way saying I'm going to emotionally connect with this is image, I'm going to spend some time exploring it visually, I'm going to try and get an understanding of what is actually happening in in this image here. And in doing so I'm actually going to receive a sense of something fulfilling or something satisfying, through my engagement with an image. And that's what I mean by the storytelling. We may have bought a book or borrowed a book and not finished reading it, because it didn't go the way we wanted it to go. We didn't want to commit any further to it. Same thing with a movie or a film, or whatever it is, right now. If you binge watch NetFlix, and you watch, you know, season one offers a series and by about midway through season one, you're going like Nah, I'm not gonna, this is not interesting me at all, I've just wasted, you know, four hours of my life watching the first four episodes or something like that, you're making a decision to abandon that because the story is no longer appealing to you. So I think a storytelling and an image is about having the viewer engage with the image or your image, where they are investing time they're committing their attention to it, and they're engaging with it. So how do you how do you do that? For me, it's about it's more than just being a pretty picture. So, you know, like, if you're scanning a travel brochure, and all the images that are amazingly beautiful, because they're obviously selling the destination, right? And some of them use look at a new stare for ages and you can almost feel yourself kind of being there. And that's a story that's an image that's captured that particular feeling and it's drawn the viewer into the image and the viewer is exploring the landscape in an image with your eyes and the imagination. That's a powerful image, it tells a story. And it's drawing us into this narrative that you could look at a travel photograph or a documentary photograph or a portrait, and you're investing in the emotion, they look at a portrait of someone and you can identify with the emotion in your eyes, for example, you begin to explore what they're wearing. And you're kind of relating what they're wearing to the life circumstances, you're looking at the background, what might be in the background, and kind of looking at how that background might relate to their life circumstances, their story, so you're investing more than just a cursory glance at that picture. And that's a story that pulls them into that. So I guess the story lies in the story lies in the details that engage us and takes us into the world that's represented. In a photograph, it's not necessarily having something exciting happening, it's not necessarily having something that's kind of like visually explosive or anything like that. But it's the small things that make us linger longer in the image, and get us to invest and to enter the world of the image. And in the same way in which we imaginatively enter the world that's been told to us in a book, or which we engage emotionally with the characters that we watch. In a film, we actually care for them. And we don't want them to get, you know, the under bad circumstances, part and parcel of what makes dramatic tension in our in a film. But we want to see what happens to them. And hopefully, hopefully, it's a happy ending. That's why we stay until the end. And I think the same kinds of emotions kind of apply in a way which we engage with photographs. So if your images can tap into those very triggers, that will get people to invest and commit and engage with those images on those levels, then it's a storytelling image. So that makes sense. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:46   Wow, that is that is crazy. Like, one other thing that I was very interested to, I actually had to put a note there, just to make sure I don't forget, you know, in this social media era, or especially on the, you know, technology era, we, we get bombarded with content and everything, right. So if you look at Instagram, we hardly browse through a photo for more than two seconds, we look like next look like next. So what what does it really take to create that that photo is that, you know, that we that we know, as a creator, that the story is in the details, but for the viewer? They might, they might not notice that within that two, three, or even five seconds that they're looking at it? What does it actually take to create that sort of photography that it's so powerful to hook your, your viewer? And engage them further into the details of your photo? Seng Mah  47:50   Are you talking about a social media platform like Instagram? Are you talking? You're talking about social media platforms? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:57   I think it's just in general, not only social media, I think, you know, we have a lot of competition, for example, right now, there is no, you know, when you look at competition, we I think we can we can kind of think about you know, less of the popular shot, if that's what you men can I think, but also, you know, the judges will have hundreds and hundreds of entries. What does it take? Or, you know, how do you create that photo that's so powerful, so that the judges will actually invest further, as you said earlier, within, within that story, or within that frame? Seng Mah  48:34   I think it'll you'll answer the question, you got to kind of think about how we, as viewers read and process visual images, right. And a lot of that is quite often very, very subjective as well. You know, if we can, if we can make meaning of an image, we are probably more willing to invest time in exploring it further. If we cannot make meaning of the image. And there's nothing that hooks us into it, then it's chances are, you know, just scroll past if you're talking about something like Instagram, for example. So if what I think you're asking is what are the key elements that will allow an image to engage with the viewer when it is competing with a lot of other images in a saturated image saturated kind of context, which could be Instagram could be if you're judging a photographic competition, you might be looking at over 500 700 1000s of images. So you have to make a decision very, very quickly. If you go to a group exhibition and 50 images in the exhibition, you're not going to spend, you know, five minutes on each image, you'll be there forever, right? So you're just going to scan and you're going to stop at certain images and what's going to do that, what's going to pull it into those images over there. Now, having said all of that, I would say that this is probably not a very ideal context in which images should be looked at and consumed by people this mass production. Spamming of images is not the ideal situation, to have easily. So when you have an exhibition, you curate it so that you're not having your images compete with each other by having too many of them, for example. Okay, so so I'll qualify that. So to say what's going to grab a viewers attention. I think the first thing is you need a headline, you need that headline, like a newspaper article, you need that headline. And the headline needs to hook the viewer in. So if the image is something that a viewer is already familiar with, it's chances are, they might just give it a quick glance, and you know, double tapping to give a love heart in Instagram is so easy doesn't mean any meaningful in engagement. All right. So you scroll past, the actual hook would be basically something that makes the leader go WTF, I think it's like, what what is this? You know, what is this? What is this, and then that curiosity then prompts them to look more closely into the, into what's actually happening in the image. And from that, they begin to try to find meaning in that image. And bearing in mind that the meaning that the viewer constructs out of the image is not necessarily the meaning that the photographer or the artist invested into the image itself, but they're already engaged, and they begin to draw meaning through gestures to get drawn, they might lock onto certain expressions, or they might, if it's a portrait, they might lock into certain detail in the images, you know, things that appear, and then that, that helps them kind of create a an image creates a story from the processing of the image itself. That if that makes sense, that's why I was thinking to myself that the the most valuable comment that you can get in social media for any image you put in there is not nice capture, or not great image, or not awesome, or not sensational, and all that. Those sorts of feedback, you know, or not, when someone just goes love heart emojis, those things require no investment. That's just someone, you know, saying something to be polite, and to acknowledge that, you know, they like your image. It's when someone writes something and says, Oh, my God, I know the feeling of this person. Exactly, you know, because I've been in that position. And this is what happened to me, and then they relay their own story. Back. And that's when you know that there has been real emotional engagement in the photograph. And I think that's something that we should all aim to look at an image of, say, a frozen feel in the Rockies, and there might be a few struggling plants growing in it. If you put it on Instagram, and someone just puts thumbs up, thumbs up, or the thank you emoji or the love heart emoji or the kissy emoji means nothing, right. But if someone writes, My God, this takes me there, and I can feel the cold in my bones. Now, that's real connection with with an image, as opposed to love hard, love hard, and about tech loves, and all that kind of stuff. So for me, if you're looking for real connection with the people look in your images, if you are looking for your images to actually mean something to people and mean something. So when you invest time in creating the images, you gain, whatever time you've gone into photographing, you're putting into photographing and creating the image is time, you're never gonna get back. Right? So. So you want what you produce, to be meaningful, you know, to at least one other person out there in the world. Because if you can get a comment like that, then you know that you've achieved that particular achievement if we got that. And I think that's what we should we should aim for, rather than this kind of, oh, you know, to appease the algorithm of social media, I've got to post two pictures every day, when I'm going to post an Instagram story every day. I mean, it ends the day, some mechanism, the mechanism asks us to engage in engage with it in a certain way in order to get the popular likes and all that but, you know, is that is that actually good for creativity? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:11   Yeah, that's, that's definitely Yeah, that's great. It's definitely a struggle between creativity and being able to reach more especially with this, like, you know, all the algorithm that kind of basically curate what what what you know, seen as popular, so, that's great. Seng Mah  54:31   Yeah, look, it's coming Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:35   to an hour mark. So I'm just gonna ask you a couple more questions. One of the questions I'm really interested to get your intake on this is that especially based on what you just said before, should you catch it in your photo or should the viewer you know, let interpret that to their own, you know, what, what what does the what does the effect of the caption to Due to an art of your photography, will they actually take away that message? Or will they actually strengthen it? Seng Mah  55:06   I think it depends on the context in which the image is actually being shown or exhibited. Captions can sometimes Empower images, make them strong make make the message, the meaning, the way it's consumed and understood and emotionally engaged with a lot stronger, incredibly stronger. And sometimes Captions can impede in letting the viewer kind of just process and make their own meaning, so to speak of, of the images coming over there. So it's not a it's not a binary outcome, yes, or no, you know, kind of stuff like a lot of it depends on the A lot of it depends on on the contexts in which the captions work. What I find more useful, is something like an authentic artists statement than a caption. So for example, if someone's having an exhibition, or they publish a book of photographs, so I'm not let's talk about Instagram and all that, because that's the thing we've talked about that, let's say you usually do a photo book, or you have an exhibition, or something where your work is actually or even if you've got an online gallery, right, okay, on your website. And you write like a statement from your heart, which means I'm not talking about some kind of highfalutin, you know, wencke type of, you know, artist statements, something that's really funny have heard about, about your experiences in making the images about perhaps the motivation in making the meme because I generally speaking, don't talk about the meaning in my images I talked about, about about what they what, what they are to me, and why I photograph them and stuff like that. But I don't prescribe what people should make out of those images there. And talk a lot more about myself, and what drives me as a photographer and all that and then let that become like an overarching context, in which people can then use that and apply to the images and see how the images have come about through this particular mindset that the artist had as a creative person, rather than writing the individual captions. But having said that, sometimes captions, especially for press images, and documentary images, sometimes captions, can really kind of work very powerfully with the images so that both of them together, almost symbiotically. Create an experience for the viewer slash the reader that each of them individually could not have achieved. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:40   Yeah, that's, that's very interesting. I actually, I always, almost always put a story behind the photo, you know, what, what was it like? And what, what, what my experience where I go out that day, and so forth. But one of the reasons why I I want to ask you this question was that just the other day, I have a, I saw a comment on on one of the foot photography group, and then that's what he said is like, you know, like, I'd rather not have captions. So I, you know, after our conversation, but storytelling, I was really interested to see your take on that. So yeah, that's really good. Cool. Well, um, yeah, look, you've been an educator for a while now, and you've got into photography for a while now, for those of you who just want to start it, and who kinda like, you know, got interested and want to create something that is meaningful and as strong as what is the one advice, you know, one of the most important advice that you would give them Seng Mah  58:45   complete this sentence, I take photograph, because I take photographs because.dot.to complete that sentence. As amazing, simple as that. But it has to come personally, it can't come. Now, whatever reason you give after the dot, dot, dot, that's fine. But you just have to define that for yourself. First. Find out what it is that that interests you so much that you want to actually take photographs of it. And then work towards being the best that you can be in what it is that you want to take photographs of. And sometimes you might need to actually push your own comfort, boundary boundaries, basically, to break through any kind of resistance that your own self might have had to achieve that particular outcome. And I'll give you a really quick example of that one. As I said earlier, I have a very strong interest in people and I really wanted to connect with them. But in the early days, when probably 15 or so years ago, more than that, actually. It's hard to approach strangers to ask for their photographs, especially when you're first starting out and because I you know, engaged with a lot of photographers now that's still a perennial concern. On an anxiety with a lot of a lot of photographers who want to take photos of people, but they just are not out there with your personality. So I came up with a strategy to get past my own fears and anxieties. And that was to actually have a purpose, in a reason why I wanted to take photographs of people. And that purpose was to actually basically go create a community photographic project. And the community photographic project was essentially tied into what was happening in a wall at that particular point in time. And at that particular point in time, this was, I think, just probably after what had happened in Bali, and everything else with the bombing. So it's going back quite a long time. And there was a lot of fear and a lot of anger and a lot of suspicion and all that. And I thought one way in which you can actually combat that is to actually, you know, get people to express in writing their commitment to basically still be good people, basically. So I went around, and I wrote one piece of code, I wrote a very simple three or four word statement, and I met two people. And I said, Hey, I'm doing a community project where I'm photographing people, if they're willing to commit, they just have to be photographed holding this car. And that's how I got through the fear or the anxiety of actually approaching people. Of course, they will say no, but then they say no to the project. They didn't say no, to me. And that was a great way of actually getting past any of those initial hesitancy that comes with that. And after that, that was perfectly fine. If you approach people because you've already built up a particular pattern and a particular level of confidence. That's it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:51   Yeah, that's, that's great. I mean, yeah, that's one sentence that is really strong. And it's really interesting, because I've never really actually asked myself that. And, you know, that's even for me who've been taking photo for awhile who've been interested for in photography for a while. And I think I know the purpose of my photography, but I think it's, you know, by answering that question, it really, really, you know, hit that home run. So, fantastic. You know, thanks a lot for the for the advice. That's, it's amazing, I'm pretty sure the listener at at home, especially those of you who kind of just started and not sure where to go with your photography can take this and, yeah, build your own meaning and, you know, express yourself to photography instead of looking at other things, or other people work and try to mimic them. So that's amazing. So for those, for the listeners, who's interested to learn more about yourself, saying, What's the best way to find you? Seng Mah  1:02:55   Oh, okay, so I'm obviously all on all over social media as well. But I don't, I don't, I don't garner a very large following in the 10s of 1000s or something along the lines of that I use it, you know, for my own personal purposes and stuff like that, but my website is venture photography.com.au So they can go there and they can look at the courses so it probably be more relevant for people in Australia especially in Western Australia. If you want to learn photography with me, if you want to go on my tours and stuff like that at the moment for next year. It's just within Western Australia only go to triple W dot venture photography.com.au And you can see what's basically on offer there you can follow me on Instagram on sang venture, which is my name s e Ng, then what venture together and that's mainly kind of like my, like travel landscape kind of work there. And then obviously, on social media, you can connect with me on venture photography workshops on Facebook, or just look for my name and cinema on Facebook. Pretty much and yeah. And I posted on my YouTube channel, but I currently don't, I'm not a YouTube type influence. I use the YouTube channel more as a learning resource where I put a lot of videos, how to videos and all that for the classes and people that I teach. I put them up there during the lockdown. This year, when wa log down for about six or seven weeks I and people were at home and you couldn't do anything I ran. I ran live zoom webinars and sessions like this and had guest speakers and we did you know things like portraiture and how to use your camera and all those kinds of stuff. On and we have a group on Facebook called Photo talk, Rafi, which is spelled P H O T. A L K prophy. Like for tog Rafi on Facebook. That's pretty much it. That's where you can find me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:45   Oh, yeah, fantastic. I mean, you got you got amazing works. For those of you who are interested in travel, I actually learn how to use light and flash that I still use that technique. It's It's It's An amazing technique, especially the one that you thought during the daylight, but you make everything underexposed. So it looks like Seng Mah  1:05:06   Yeah, yeah, I love that. Tonight. Yes, with a flat sheet. That's right. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:12   I love that technique. I still like it was definitely one of my favourite techniques. Seng Mah  1:05:18   That's right. Yeah, I still teach that. So if you find a potential boss with me, you come in learn how to do that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:24  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast. in this My take Thursday I shared my point of view on how mastering the basics could help you improve your photography dramatically.  Don't forget to subscribe and leave a comment below, let me know if this is useful. You can learn more about Dunna on: Website: dunnadidit.com YouTube: dunnadidit - https://www.youtube.com/user/dunnaj  Instagram: @dunnadidit - https://www.instagram.com/dunnadidit/   Twitter: @dunnadidit - https://twitter.com/dunnadidit/    If you want to watch the video podcast, head to: https://youtu.be/uYxJ1l9DL2Q  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe

Hey Wicked Hunters, what is going on? What an amazing interview with the man himself Dunna Did It. In this podcast, I wanted to hear how he mesh his passion for music, videography and photography into one and how he found the time to learn it all! He shared one of the most important ways to speed up your progress. Make sure you watch or listen to the podcast as he shared how his passion turns into a career as one of the leading YouTuber in a short 4 years.   He encourages you to say hit him up and say hi, how awesome is that. You can learn more about Dunna on: Website: dunnadidit.com YouTube: dunnadidit - https://www.youtube.com/user/dunnaj  Instagram: @dunnadidit - https://www.instagram.com/dunnadidit/   Twitter: @dunnadidit - https://twitter.com/dunnadidit/  If you want to watch the video podcast, head to: https://youtu.be/uYxJ1l9DL2Q  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe --------------------- Dunna Did It  0:00   You will look at it and go, Oh, I know how they did that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:03   Hey wicked hunters Welcome to the Art of Photography podcast where we share our passion. And we share how our passion gives us hope, purpose and happiness to photography. So today we have someone very, very excited. I'm very excited to introduce this person. See, I can't even speak properly. And he's, he's celebrating. I think celebrity hasn't made it to the Oscar. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you'll make it there very soon. But he's Yeah, I'm sure a lot of you have seen him before. If not, you will get to know Him. And you can check him up. But Donna, how are you doing? Dunna Did It  0:53   I'm doing well, man. Thanks for having me on. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:56   Yeah, man. It's great. I mean, like we met like, last year in in Lake Louise. And remember you were looking for the PD clip defeat. Dunna Did It  1:09   Yeah, I lost my Peak Design clip. And I lost the last a strap to while I was there, I lost all sorts of Peak Design stuff while I was there. I don't know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:19   Yeah, that's crazy. I'm glad that we keep in touch. Because, you know, when I started this podcast, I was like that I was straightaway thinking about like, you know, like us, like, man, like, what is he doing? What is he up to? And and you just you just had on your recent birthday, you reach a big milestone there. So you want to tell us a little bit about that? I mean, Dunna Did It  1:43   what the birthday? Yeah, the birthday I got I got verified, I think on YouTube is what they call it, where you get the little checkmark beside your name. But yeah, sometime a couple a handful of months before that has to be six months now or something like that. I crossed over 100,000 subscribers on YouTube, which is, it's very exciting to think that there's enough people to fill a couple of stadiums that, that like to watch my stuff, which is pretty nuts. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:12   And that's amazing, isn't it? I mean, how did it all started? Like how did this all like sparks and, you know, Dunna Did It  2:21   I mean, honestly, like I'm a my full time job is I'm a music producer, I have a recording studio here in Edmonton, I make music basically, and I record for people and, and mix and master their music and that kind of stuff. And I think that that all that started because obviously I love music, I love being creative, that kind of thing. But then you you do that for so many years and answering the clients and, and you I kind of needed something else to be my creative outlet outside of that not not that I wasn't like having fun or anything at work, but it was always like, at the end of the day after I had made music that somebody else asked me to make for eight hours, the last thing I wanted to do was make more music. And so then my creative outlet kind of felt like it had been not taken away from me but like it was being used for something else it was being used for work and so I started to really get into photography and videography and that kind of stuff and and was really fascinated by the world of like YouTube vlogging so I started the channel, as a vlog channel I started it with just did the intention to just kind of show off what what I got up to every day and I kind of kept the studio out of it a little bit which is a weird thing to say to show off what I do every day but keep my full time job out of it but but you know when whenever my wife and I would go on little little trips and stuff like that I would make videos or if we went to Ikea and bought a new couch, I would make a video and like that kind of stuff. And eventually I wanted to I wanted to increase the quality of the production and I started like I was always learning and that kind of thing. And so you start learning about cameras you start learning more about I mean I already knew a lot about audio at that point but audio specifically for video and editing and those kinds of things and started to learn about that stuff and get really obsessed with not not only the videography side of it, but because we so many people are hybrid shooters and so many cameras are dedicated hybrid cameras where you can shoot both video and photo I started to get really into the photography side as well. And so I ended up I started talking about that on the channel like I think kind of unintentionally at first I started babbling about laying you know I got a new camera or I got a new lens like hopefully the the video should look better now. And you know, I'm excited about this new software that I'm trying or something like that. And then eventually it was like now here's the deal. Toriel on this software, and here's a review on this lens. And it just kind of blossomed from there when I started to see people really enjoying that content, and I think the way that the way that first of all, I was someone who was learning so they could, they could connect with that. But second of all, I think the way that I put it forward is, is somewhere in between being really technical, and being really like approachable and easy to understand. So it's like, it's good for people who want a little bit more than just the very basic thing, but it's not so so extreme that it's going over their head. So I kind of fit right in that middle space there. And I think that when I found out that I kind of had that skill for teaching in that way, I really kind of laid into that. And I really enjoy it as well. And I enjoyed the the feedback that I get from people and yeah, yeah, so that's, that's kind of the story of the channel. That's, that's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:57   amazing. So you started in music? Wow. Okay, so, yeah, I mean, like, I could totally relate, like, you know, it's really hard sometimes, especially when you do when you work for when you work with something that you're passionate about. Sometimes you really need to differentiate, you know, between the hobby side, and then the work side. And I, you know, like, it's still a really, really hard distinction for me myself, how do you actually differentiate that like, between, you know, because like, you had that burnout in the music, right? So how did you not like, you know, have that again, how do you prevent that? Yeah, it's, Dunna Did It  6:42   I mean, it's, it's something that I constantly have to kind of keep in check. And I mean, with, with music, the way that I differentiated as I picked something else to do, I still don't, I don't catch myself making music, just for fun very often anymore. It's, it's, it's kind of become my job. And I have fun at my job, I have more fun at my job now, because I have another creative outlet than I was before. You know, and so it's, it's one of those things where, like, I just literally picked something else to do. And that seemed, that seemed to do for me. And, you know, now it's because YouTube has gone where it has gone. And now it's like a source of income for me as well. You know, you start to think of it as a job. But I think the big distinction between YouTube and what I was doing with music is that with music, there's always a client. There's always an artist in the room who says, Here's my song, I want you to make it sound like this. No, no, I don't like that. Do this. No, no, I don't like that do this kind of thing. And so then I'm kind of always like answering to somebody. Whereas with my YouTube videos, with the exception of like, a couple of like sponsored segments and stuff like that, which really, like, I've never had, I've never had any sponsor tell me that I needed to make a different video, they might ask me to change some wording on how I talk about their brand or something like that. But for the most part, I get to make videos that I want to make, you know, so there's, there's nobody really to answer to, in that regard. It's it's mostly like I think of I have a list of videos that I want to make. And if a sponsor approaches me that would I guess, technically be my like, client is like, if a sponsor approaches me, I say, Okay, do you want me to put your thing on this video that I was probably going to make anyway, like, it's always really, it's really, like, I've become the artist that I work with in the studio, you know, their, their goal is as a musician, as a as an artist is to create a song and have enough people want to listen to it, that they can make a living at it. As a as a YouTuber, I basically say, Okay, I'm going to create a piece of information or art or whatever you want to call it. And hopefully enough, people want to watch all of my pieces of art, or information that I can then like, you know, make some kind of a, an income off of it. So it there's there does feel like a significant difference between my day job and my side job, which is the YouTube thing, because again, it comes down to that control. Like, I never have to ask anybody like, Hey, is it okay? If I, if I make this video this week, you know, it's like, I just make whatever I want. And some of them do great and some of them don't do as well and you move on and you make another one. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:42   And that is awesome. Like, I mean, like I could relate it back to like when I was an engineer, you know, like, as an engineer, you do get a little bit creative when you do problem solving. But at a certain point, you know, your boss just tell you, No, you just follow the process. Do you follow a, b and c and then you stop being creative? And I can totally relate to that. And I think that last bit that you say that you get to do things for yourself, you know, like, you get to choose the client that's aligned to you. Right? That is probably the big thing that, that, I hope the listeners get it because especially with photography as well, you know, like, when I first when I first started photography, hours, not shooting for myself, I was recreating images from Instagram, instead of shooting the photo that I want to do. I want to take and you know, for that reason, I was just everyone else. And you know, nowadays, there's a lot of photographers who kind of just start it. And they kind of follow or fall into the same trap. And then they ask themselves, how do I create photo that is, you know, stand out? Well, don't follow anyone else. Create your own perspective. So that's amazing that you say that. So? Yeah, awesome. So how does how does everything mesh together between like photography, and videography and music? Because you do it all? Like, you know, like, I don't know how you find the time for it? Dunna Did It  11:15   Yeah, it's, it's a lot. I have a schedule blocker. So like, my, my Google Calendar has little blocks in it. And I have to schedule everything out, basically. And, yeah, it's, it's a lot. And yeah, it's a it's a constant struggle and some weeks, because like, it's, it fluctuates so much, like, some weeks, it'll be really busy on one end, and some weeks will be really busy on the other, and you have to be willing to kind of give up a little of one for another and that kind of thing. So it is is a lot to deal with. But it's also it's also a lot of fun. And, you know, you just, you just figure out what your what your balance needs to look like and what needs to be sacrificed and what, what doesn't. And I'm also like a, I think I'm a really hard worker, so it helps that I want to do it, and I want to I feel I feel best when I feel accomplished. So if if you know, I'm working hard and getting lots done, that's when I'm happiest. So it's, it kind of works out for me. Yeah. And then like I'm also really strict on like, I take I take time, on my weekends, I spend those with my wife and that kind of stuff. And every once in a while, I'll need to take a little bit of that time. And, you know, put it towards a busy week or something like that. But for the most part, it's like, I try and kind of keep that balance. And that keeps me keeps me sane. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:45   Yeah, that's, that's I mean, it's, you know, I, I find it really hard. That's one thing that I struggled the most is trying to find a balance. Like, so like, take us through, like, for example, when you were in like Lake Louise, how much how, like, how do you take photo and video at the same time? Because you only got two heads, right? Like, what does it look like when you're out there? Do you just like do one or the other? Or? Yeah, Dunna Did It  13:14   yeah, I mean that it comes down to a lot of a lot of pre planning and kind of deciding what what is the main focus of today. And usually there's usually there's one or the other kind of thing. So like, I don't even remember when we're in Lake Louise. Oh, yeah. So I had one thing that I needed to shoot there, which was supposed to be I was supposed to be doing this trip this trip to Italy. With that, like people could sign up for and I was going to do some workshops and it was going to be a bunch of people and stuff like that. So I had like one promo video that I was like, okay, cool. While we're there, I'll shoot a little bit of video and but the main focus is get that and then everything else I was like everything else. I'm just going to focus on photography because I didn't need if I don't need video for anything. I don't just like shoot video for no reason whatsoever, or very, very rarely anyway, like every every once in a while I'll just shoot it just in case but but usually I'll kind of have an idea going into it of like, you know what, what do I need out of this and so for that, that specific weekend or whatever, it was a couple of days that we were there. I knew I needed that one video, but I needed to like be at a location so we like did this little hike and ended up I don't even remember where it was that we hiked to or whatever but that was gonna be the thing. I did my little blurb that was all the video that I really needed everything else the rest of the way was pretty much just just photos. And so then like and sometimes it'll be the other way around. Sometimes it'll be you know, what I really need out of this is a bunch of a bunch of video to put over a voiceover because I want to do this. This motive additional video or something like that, or I need to test this lens in video mode. And so like we're gonna, I'm gonna, you know, take all this video, and then any photos that I get are kind of secondary. So it's usually one or the other is takes priority, and I try and decide that ahead of time. And that makes it a lot easier. And usually I just shoot it all with one camera like I don't I, I carry a backup camera, because I am worried that something will happen, and I'll need it. But generally, I just shoot it all on one camera, and I just like constantly switch between modes for whatever I want to get some Yeah, so it's it's mostly about trying to decide ahead of time, like what do I need out of this outing kind of thing. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:48   that's, that's awesome. I mean, I wish I you know, I've talked to you about this before, because when I was doing a trip around Indonesia and Australia, I had a drone. And it was always like, drone, camera, photo, time lapse, and it just got like, oh, which I was like, Oh, I forgot to do this. But yeah, you're right. I think if you can, like plan and just have that pre mindset of what you you want to achieve, that would work a lot better. And I mean, like, seems like you really organised about all this, like you always like this, or did you like learn it kind of along the way, Dunna Did It  16:24   this took a long time to develop? Yeah, there were a lot of times where where I would, let's say we would go down to Banff or something like that. And, and I would try, I would be trying to like, okay, everywhere that we stopped, I would get two shots of B roll. And I would talk to the camera once and then I would stop and take 10 photos of that thing. And then like we take 25 steps up the hike up the trail, and I wouldn't do it all again. And it first of all, it got really annoying because it was you know, what would should be like a 45 minute little walk or something like that would take us five hours. And second of all, what would happen is I would miss opportunity or not not so much that I would miss opportunities. But I would be I would have half a video. And I would have not quite enough photos to make a set. And because I was too busy doing one to get the other and too busy doing the other to get the one you know and so then like I didn't have enough video to get to make something out of it. And I didn't have enough photos, photos are a little easier because you can you can shoot like 10 photos and still get something if you're if you know you're you're pretty handy with your eye and stuff. But yeah, it's generally I'll figure out if there's an opportunity for now anyway, this is something that I've learned, I'll figure out if there's an opportunity for a video. And if not, I'll probably just shoot photos. And that's that's generally kind of how it goes. Because if if there's not like somewhere that I can post a video or something that I can do video for then like, generally, it would just take up a bunch of hard drive space and be video that I'd never use. I don't sell stock footage or anything like that. So yeah, but I'm pretty much always always shooting some kind of photos one way or another. Even if I am shooting videos, I'll usually shoot a couple of photos here and there too. So, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:26   man, I've got so many drone footage from that trip. It just it takes so much space and I hardly touch him I only touch him when I really need it like something you know, when I need to create promotion and stuff. And I always tell myself that, you know, one day I will go back to it and do it. But you know, making a video is a lot more effort than just making like editing a photo. It's crazy. So I haven't really got into it. So yeah, I know. You mean and the Alec for for wiki hunters at home was listening, I think this is really really valuable. You know whether or not you only do it for as a hobby or when you just do it for site income or even you want to do it full time. It's it's definitely one of the hardest thing to do as a creative, especially in this technology. Era, right. So do you have like, Do you have any inspiration that get you you know, going or get you to where you are right now? Is there a particular person or a particular photo that that you know, you remember when you started or whatnot? Dunna Did It  19:39   Oh geez. I mean when I first when I first started on on YouTube, the Casey Neistat was was a huge one for the like vlogging side of things and kind of the crossover between vlogging and like really nice high quality, storytelling kind of thing like it was it was different than like people just on their phones he was using like the Canon 80 D or whatever. And like it, there was shallow depth of field and all that kind of stuff. And so I think that, that, that was what got me interested in more of the not just telling a story, but also doing it with a certain kind of quality and a certain kind of flair and vibe to it. So that was, that was a big one. And then yeah, honestly, as far as photography goes, I mean, I have lots of people that are like now but I can't think of anything like, off the top that was like, a huge, like, inspiration for me, I'm on an Instagram photographer 100% Like I don't, my photos don't really go anywhere other than Instagram. So like, I'm scrolling Instagram lots and you know, seeing what the trends are, and that kind of stuff. And but my, my biggest inspiration is learning new techniques, I think. So like, as if you were to scroll through my scroll through my Instagram, I'm sure you could probably even see it. It's like, oh, he's in he's in this phase right now, he learned this one thing, and now he's overdoing it like crazy. You know, like, he learned this, he learned about whatever, like long, long exposures or something and then or there'll be like, nine long exposures in a row on my on my feed, like, two years ago or something like that. And then, you know, those kinds of things. So it's like, it's really like the My biggest inspiration is the hunt for new knowledge and the hunt for, you know, learning and that kind of thing. So I think that that's really, really what drives me, especially I think, in the in the photography space. Whereas like, in for the YouTube side of things, when I'm shooting most of my videos, it's almost passing on that knowledge is a lot of it. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:56   that's, that's really interesting, because that's how I learned, you know, I was too lazy to read or you know, to watch 10 Minutes video. So usually, I would, I would know exactly what I need to learn. And I would just watch that tiny bit of it. I would try it. And it's like, no, I need to watch the next video. Yeah, it was it was really funny. I had to go back and forth, though. But it's when when I first started photography, it was because of the Milky Way shot. It was just, I can't I can't remember which one it was, but there was a Milky Way shot that I saw. And I was like, I want to be able to take that photo. And then like, that was it that was like that was the mission. Like, that's how I got into photography. That was that one shot. So yeah, it's, it's always interesting. So if you were to, like, choose between photography, videography and, and, you know, music, where would where we'd all sit? And how will all sit? Dunna Did It  22:59   If I had to pick one of them, as I say, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:01   Well, how you prioritise? You know, if you go like, when would you prefer one compared to the other? Because I'm sure everything has their own time, right, like, you enjoy things differently at different time or whatnot. Dunna Did It  23:14   Yeah, I mean, I think as, as far as just like creating some kind of like, art or whatever, like, I find photography really rewarding in that way. Like I feel like I make, so my video work primarily is my YouTube videos. So it's not, it's I don't do I don't really shoot a lot of like client work or anything like that. Like, it's primarily just YouTube videos. Every once in a while I'll shoot a music video here and there. But the photography is really like the one thing that I just do, because I like posting it kind of thing. You know, like the YouTube videos, like of course, I enjoy those too. But there's kind of like a, there's like a transaction there happening with my audience. Like, it's like they're expecting a video, I put out a video, we have a conversation about it, that kind of thing. Whereas, like, I take tonnes of photos that never get posted, or anything and it's like, it's I enjoy that process a lot. There's very little for the way that I do it anyway, there's very little planning that goes into shooting a photo, you know, like I, most of my photography and stuff happens while I'm out. And I'm just capturing what's happening around me. I don't plan on on, you know, a set or a costume or you know, like like some like portrait photographers and and that kind of stuff or concept photographers or whatever. So I quite enjoy that because it kind of feels like a almost like a state of meditations. So maybe that would be that might be at the top which is seems like a funny thing for me to say Because I do consider myself like a videographer. Before a photographer, just, I think out of the sheer fact that I shoot more videos. I shoot a video every week. I don't necessarily get out and shoot photos every week. And so then it seems weird to say that but yeah, I guess that would be, that would be the top and then I don't know, it's tough. It's tough not to put music at the top because I've been doing it for so long. Like since 2005. I went to, I went to recording school in in 2005. I have three college diplomas in music related fields, I was nominated for a Juno for a record that I produced a couple of years ago, like, so like, it's, it's a huge, huge part of my life. But just again, like, it's like, it feels more like, it feels more like the nine to five right now. Like, I get to be creative in it. And I do enjoy it, but it's not. It's not the thing that like, is is driving me forward right at this very moment kind of thing. So, yeah, that's yeah, I don't know, if I actually answered your question or just hold on for a while. That's actually Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:06   perfect. It's like, it's like, it's like a drip, you know, you kind of like half the music seems like, you're more like work and obligation and a little bit of happiness and passion and creative side, I suppose. And the video is like in the middle, and then photography is kind of just like fully recreational, and you just do whatever you want with it. So Dunna Did It  26:33   yeah, it just is funny because even just the way that you just laid it out there, like for audio and music, and then video feel very connected to me, they feel like almost almost like the same thing. But then with a with a visual aspect. And then on the other side photography and video kind of feel like they're connected. But just you know, the video is just with an audio aspect. And so it's like video really does feel like the, the mash of between the two, you know, it's like, it's like, photography is like capturing a moment. Audio is like capturing a moment over time, but only in the audio part of it. And then the video kind of combines it all. All together. So yeah, it really does kind of like have this flow thing going on. And from week to week, it changes to is like some weeks, I'm just super inspired to make music. And then other weeks, I just all I want to do is make cool videos. And then the next week, all I want to do is, you know, shoot photos. Yeah. So it, it's kind of all over the place. Yeah, that's, that's Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:37   awesome. I think I think the way you put it is really is spot on. I mean, I I, I kind of predominantly take photo, and then I take a little bit of video. And now because like I don't have a lot of drones and stuff like that. And I'm not very good with the handheld camera thing, because I don't have a gimbal or anything like that. And so I do a lot a lot of time lapse, which is kind of like, you know, like just a bunch of photo put together and makes a video. So that's Yeah, that's really interesting. And that's awesome. So like, I mean, like, you know, we're, we're, I think we're going back. So coming back to the end of the podcast here. So what if you were to kind of give a little bit of advice to someone who, who, who just started and I think someone who's interested on both, you know, videography and photography, and because I know a lot of a lot of creatives out there really love it, but they just kind of don't know where to start. And they are overwhelmed with things like trying to learn too many things. What what, what sort of advice would you tell them? And you know, how should How should they approach them? Dunna Did It  28:55   I mean, I would say to learn basic stuff first. And the nice thing about photography and videography is that a lot of those basics are the same, they might have different guidelines, but learning things like the exposure triangle, and how to use your shutter speed ISO and aperture in tandem with each other are the rules or the I shouldn't say the rules, but the the guidelines are the same. Or the information anyway is the same. And then the guidelines for a photography versus videography might just be slightly different. And so I think that really like if you're not sure yet you're like, Okay, well I like both of them. But like I don't know, if I want to make I might not have time to do both or like it's frustrating trying to do both. Like, you can learn the basics of both of them at the same time and you're not really learning two things. You're really only learning one thing so I think really really building up your foundational All knowledge is is kind of a great place to start and not and not worry too much about like, above getting into advanced techniques, we all want to jump into that kind of stuff but but if you really learn your kind of foundational stuff, honestly, it makes it easier to even figure out those kind of more, you know, advanced things if you if you have all the foundations down, and then you see a photo that has something cool going on in it, you will look at it and go, Oh, I know how they did that. Because I understand these foundational ideas, and I'm sure this could apply to anything. I'm sure this isn't just photography and videography. But I definitely find it that way. So yeah, like learning learning kind of your foundational stuff, I think is is really a strong place to start. And whether that means you know, looking up YouTube videos, or taking online courses, or reading books or whatever the best way that you specifically learn. But don't, don't hop over those foundational things, which I think a lot of people want to do they want to, they want to learn how to take the Milky Way shot, as their as their first photo, they want to be able to go out in the middle of the night and hit the Milky Way shot without understanding what a long exposure is without understanding how it works and understanding noise and ISO and all those kinds of things or what equipment they need that kind of thing. So I think really, really getting a grasp on that foundational stuff is the way that the way that I learned. And luckily, there's a lot of overlap between audio, the the post production side of audio and video. So a lot of that came really easily to me. But as far as like getting good images and stuff like that I was basically starting from scratch. So I think that learning that foundational stuff is really really where I would say like focus a lot of your time on that. And the rest of it kind of falls into place. You'll accidentally stumble a lot of along a lot of fun things that will take you a lot of places if you get that other stuff down first. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:09   Yeah, that's that's really funny, because you just talked to me about three years ago. It's like, yeah, straightaway. Myka is like, No, I don't know how to do Dunna Did It  32:18   that. I did it too. I did it. I think we all do. Yeah. So this is me warning people who are just heard just starting out, they need to, they need to do some other stuff first. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:30   Yeah, that's cool. Right. So like, I want to ask you one last thing, and I think you're a perfect person to ask is, you know, you in the YouTube field feel you're you're, you're competing with many, many other people. And the thing is that you need to stand out, right? And that's the thing that a lot of photographers is asking, right? How do you create something that stand out? How do you create something that is unique? That is that is noticeable, and different from everyone else? So yeah. Do you have any advice on you know how to set yourself differently? And the, the, you know, different? Dunna Did It  33:15   Yeah, that's I mean, it's, it's a difficult one, especially as more and more people pick up cameras are more and more people start YouTube channels, or whatever. But I mean, the the, it kind of comes back to what I was saying before is like, if you learn the foundational stuff, then you can put your own spin on it, if you don't learn that stuff. And all you learn is how to copy other people. You know, let's say you learn how to make a certain type take a certain type of photo, because you watched a tutorial where somebody walked you through it step by step kind of thing. And all you know is how to do that you don't really know how you got there, or why it worked or any of that you just know how to take that photo, then all you're going to be able to do is, is copy that person and you're in you're not going to stand out. Whereas if you if you really focus on those foundational things, you can then it's almost like a recipe if you understand how to use all of the ingredients, you can then put your own different amounts and and different flavours on it and you can you can make your own recipe out of it. Whereas if all you know how to do is follow somebody else's recipe then you're not going to stand out. But if you don't, again, if you don't understand those flavours you don't understand the spices, that kind of stuff, then you'll never be able to get to your own recipe. So I think again, it really comes down to understanding your foundational knowledge about this kind of stuff and then and then again like it I do I do always tell people to copy other people and not Not not because not not as like, necessarily your, your swan song or whatever. But because there's so much learning to be done from borrowing from other people and give give credit, if you if you're going to blatantly like copy someone as a learning experience, give credit to that person and that kind of thing. Don't pretend like you invented it. But at the same time, like you can learn a lot from that. And eventually what's going to happen is you're going to, let's say you copy 15 Different people over and over and over again, and you're learning and you're learning and learning, eventually, what what's going to happen is you're going to develop your own style based on all of the things that you learned from all those other people. So it's the biggest thing, I guess, is just time, right off the bat, probably in your first bunch of years, you're not going to you're just going to look like whatever you're learning at the time. And eventually, you're you're going to develop your own style out of it. And, and the only way to do that is to give it time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:06   And that's, that's amazing answer right there. I think you're you're right on it. You know, the, the two recipes, by I think a lot of us, especially when you just start it, it's normal to follow other people because like, we don't know what we want, we don't know what's good, what's bad, until we can experience it all. So yeah, I think you're right. But like, being able to understand that foundation, then it will help other like you to kind of break down what you're doing so that you could reconstruct it slightly different or you know, like, like you say, you might be able to take 15 And then you create your own thing. So yeah, that's yeah, that's that's really awesome advice there. So yeah, like, man, it's been it's been a good like 40 minutes and which we can talk all day and I'm sure the listener would love is so much wisdom right there. But like, I don't know if I even should I should this but it for those of you who want to find you Where should they find you? And Dunna Did It  37:14   he can find me at Donna did it.com or on YouTube, Instagram or Twitter. All of them are backslash. Done it did it so youtube.com/done And did it twitter.com/jenna Did it instagram.com/jenna Did it. Come say hi, I am still pretty good about answering all my comments and DMS. So hit me up and let's chat. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:36   Yeah, that's, I mean, I'm sure if you just put it on Google done. I did it. I'm sure. I'm doing good enough there. Yeah. So I was like, I don't know if I should ask you this. But like, thanks a lot for sparing your time. And, you know, I'm sure you have a busy schedule. So it's, you know, you've given us a lot of valuable not only lesson but also inspiration, you know, to, to work to get to where you are right now and you know, the fact that you have to put it out there and just keep at it until you you get there. I think that is a massive inspiration. Especially for I think for creatives like us, you know, it's really hard sometimes to to make it out there. So, yeah, kudos to you and congratulation man. Like, yeah, we hear you made so much progress. Cool. Thanks, man. Yeah, so, well, we get Hans's hopefully that is, you know, you find not only one or two but a whole 40 minutes of wisdom right there. And yeah, think about that, like, you know, apply that to your, to your creative side, whatever it may be, but it is it's very important. Like he say, I think the one thing that I would really want to stress is that being able to separate between what you have to do and what you want to do and just keep creating for yourself, you know, even though sometimes you might need to get that post that you like and or you know, get that video that people will engage in alike, but never forget to create for yourself. Well, thanks a lot for tuning in. We can hunters and I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Here I am again blabbering. After each interview, I will release a "My Take" from the conversation. In the podcast, we often go round around and some time off on a tangent, but from each episode, there's one key learning take away that I want you to focus on. It's the one that I find most important from that conversation.  The big take away from the conversation with Jim was how a filter can reduce your time in front of your computer doing post-processing and also increase the wow factor in your photography. Filters will give you the ability to control the light and since light is the most important thing in photography, it means you'll be able to control and shape the story in your photos.  As Kase Filter Pro Partner I am able to pass you some exclusive offer, so if you're interested to get some high-quality filter, don't hesitate to get in touch. You can watch more about the review here: https://youtu.be/YiC8W9PTvas  Watch Video Podcast on https://bit.ly/TWHYouTubeChannel    For those of you who want to learn more about Jim Brompton, you can go to: http://jimbromptonphotography.com/ https://www.facebook.com/JimBromptonPhotography/  https://www.instagram.com/jimbromptonphoto/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr  For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ------------------- Transcription: Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:00   Hey Wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share our passion. And we share how we found hope, purpose and happiness true photography. So, today, I want to talk to you about what we've, the conversation that I had with Jim Brompton, I mean, 50 years, he'd been taking photo for 15 years, 50 years, and he's been in the business for 40 years. And he dropped a lot of wisdom and message there. And it was, it was just so it was so great to be able to learn and, you know, understand all of those mistakes that he's done. And to get to where he is. I think one of the things that really, that really rehome to me in this conversation was how a lot of the false perception, we broke down a lot of the false perception of using filters in photography. You know, we associate it filters with Instagram. And so when you when you think about filters, it was you know, people most people think it's though those things that you put on Instagram that you you can put the different colours or the different moods that you get from a photo. Well, in fact, a filter in a photography world or in a camera world is merely a lens, an extra lens, it's a tinted lens that help you to control the light. So it's actually really important. And Jim talked about this how using a filter can increase the quality of your photo, as well as, like increase that wall factor of your photograph. Because when you use a filter, you could control the light. And as you can, as you should be appreciating by now photography is all about light. Without light. There are no photography, and I talk about this actually, in my course it is the most talked about things. And the thing that I always bring back to light, light light, it is so important for you to understand lights and how to harness lights or take advantage of lights, even if they consider as a bad lighting or a flat lighting, there is always a way that you can harness it, and you can use it to its advantage to create something that is Wow, or, you know, different. Now, in this one, you know, Jim talked about the polarizer filter. And I totally agree with him, I didn't used to use the polarizer filter that much I used to use the polarizer filter to when I want to see when I want to be able to see through a water so what I do is I reduce the reflection. But ever since I got on board with case filters and I had the magnetic filter, he was just so seamless, it's so easy to put in and off and I find that glare is basically everywhere it's on the rocks, it's on the leave it's on an object. So if you use a K use us or it's not necessarily a case filters but case have a really a fantastic filter. So having said that, but if you just use a polarizer filter on your camera, you will be able to cut a lot of that glare and what it means is that you'll be able to see the texture you'll be able to see the actual colour and we'll have a deeper colour. You know, you can make the blue sky more blue by using a polarizer and the green trees more green especially during a sunny day by using a circular polarizer filter. Now a lot of people say that you know it's like oh you know you should keep it real don't use Filter. While in fact by using filter you can do less press post production and it is one of the reason why I use filter is that especially during sunrise and sunset and those dramatic lighting it's very important to be able to control the light and to be able to decrease that dynamic range because unfortunately even though our eyes can see the different dynamic from the darkest to the brightest, right and all the colour within there are no camera yet that is as good as Ri so you have to either do a few different techniques, maybe HDR you know or You know, a stalking, exposure stalking. But by using a filter, you do less in post processing. Why because you control the light in the field, you control the light when you actually shoot. And by doing that, you often get a better quality images because you don't have for example, you know, if you shooting a sunset and the sunrise, you don't have to bump up all those shots, all the shadows all that much because it was already a great, you're already control that with the filters. The other thing where Jim talks about, you know, criss crossing filters, I haven't done that myself. And it was, it was good to hear that actually, I want to try that. Now that's it's amazing. And but filters give you an extra waste and extra to remember, at the end of the day, your camera is a tool as a way to express your creativity to photography. So don't think of it any more than that. At the end of the day, you are the director you are having to decide what you want to be in your photo and how your photo will tell the story. So very, very important for you to remember that. So having that ND filter helps you dramatically. Why because now during the daylight, you could start creating photos that are unique to yourself by doing long exposure. How many of you seen a daylight long exposure? I'm sure not many of you, because those people that does they are the one that are committed to it. So you know, if you put the extra time that effort to to use the filter and use the tool to create that unique perspective and unique take and creative part of of the scene, then you can capture and you can increase the wow factor of your photos for the sheer fact that not many people take that kind of images. Alright, well, thanks a lot for hearing me but babbling wicked hunters. But hopefully you get a very similar takeaway. You know, if you haven't use a filter before, I highly recommend trying one out or borrowing a friend's or even buy a cheap one. My very first filter was literally $50 for five, including a bag from eBay. And that was just getting to know to filter. But as a partner in case filter, if you are interested in grabbing a filter, you can either contact me or contact Jim. And we can definitely give you the best deal that we can have. So yeah, I highly recommend exploring that side of photography because not many people has gone out there and one of the best way to stand out is stop following the mainstream right creating one that is unique creating one that is powerful. Alright, well until next time wiki hunters and please, please, please don't forget to subscribe and hit the little bell button so that you get notification for the next time I put things on YouTube or on to the pod bean, I think for podcasts and notice the Follow button. Yes, yeah, I think it's here. Yeah. So podcasts here, YouTube here. podcast here, YouTube here. All right, cool. Have a good rest of the week. We can handle this and I'll catch you next time.  

I'm very lucky to have a Designated Master in Fine Art to be joining me for this episode. Jim Brompton has been shooting for 50 years and been running a photography business for 40 years. In this episode, he shares with us his experiences and wisdom in photography.  As a Kase Filter Ambassador, Jim almost always has a filter on his camera. He explored the use of filters like no other to increase the quality and the wow factor of his photographs. As a person who's not a big fan of overusing photoshop, Jim use filters to be able to get as close to the final result as possible.  You can watch more about the review on Kase Filters here: https://youtu.be/YiC8W9PTvas  Watch Video Podcast on https://bit.ly/TWHYouTubeChannel  For those of you who want to learn more about Jim Brompton, you can go to: http://jimbromptonphotography.com/ https://www.facebook.com/JimBromptonPhotography/  https://www.instagram.com/jimbromptonphoto/  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify  Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography  Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr  Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com   Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr    For those of you who want to see more of The Wicked Hunt Photography: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com    Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/  Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast on the comment below and subscribe ---------------------------- Jim Brompton  0:00   You can do some things very artistic thinking outside the box that a lot of other photographers don't take the time to learn, or. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:17   We counters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share our hope or purpose and how we get happiness through photography. And today I have a special guest. He is he's been a designated master photographer in fine art. And he also have been, you know, receiving multiple awards and been in a lot of galleries. And this year, actually, his 40 years or anniversary of, you know, starting a photography business. So congratulations on that. And this is Jim Brompton. Hey, Jim, how you doing? Jim Brompton  0:55   Very well. How are you saying? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:57   Yeah, I'm doing well. Well, congratulations on the anniversary. That's I mean, you know, especially the timing with like, receiving all these awards. I think that's, that's great. Jim Brompton  1:06   Ya know, it's, it's been a lifelong journey for me for sure. Yeah. To pass that 40 year mark was just a real blessing. And I'm so happy. I've been involved in it for that length of time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:17   Yeah, so that's great. I'm like, Wow, 40 years. I mean, that's, that's crazy. What's what, tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, who you are. And, you know, what's your passion in photography itself, what sort of photography and so forth? Jim Brompton  1:34   Well, a long time ago, it all it all began. And I, I used to focus on mostly wildlife and in nature and nature seems my focus in my marketplace back in those days in the 1970s was to magazines and calendar companies, and school books, those types of publications. So I used to sell images to them, as well, as I did some some portraits and some weddings and tried to make a living as a photographer in the 70s. It was, it was a struggle, then no different than it is now for anybody. So I managed to get through all of that over those years. And I kind of switched gears and went into more fine art landscape. It did that, probably 25 years ago, and kind of ramped up to the, the other side of the business where I would have my images printed on Canvas, and then they would go to different galleries, and I would sell them through my, my galleries that represented me as well as I would sell it through my own my own stores, I had my own galleries. So that was, you know, that was the beginning of the fine art side of the business. Then I took another leap of 15 years ago and started printing my own. So I own I own the canvas print lab. Now that does all the printing. So now I it's a one stop shop, I take the image, I take it to put it through my own canvas print lab. From there, we distribute it to the galleries that that have ordered the piece or want to see it or want to hang it on display. And I stretch it, I finish it. And eventually I sell it, which is which is the end result. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:23   Wow. That's That's amazing. There's so many so many things I want to I want to touch to in just that little bit of a conversation there. But I want to start with, you know, like, where how did it all start? Like 40 years ago, what really is? Jim Brompton  3:38   Well, that's a really good question, Stanley, what it started about 50 years ago for me actually, okay, well, yeah, when I was in, in school, so in the in the early 70s, I started taking, I started capturing images in the 1960s. And so I just, I just developed a taste for it, I guess and, and I really enjoyed it. So of course back in those days were shooting film, so I I was able to buy a good, good quality 35 millimetre camera. And it was in the latter part of the 1970s that I decided that I would set up a photography business, which I did. So I've been shooting for over 50 years, generally 42 years owning my own photography business, but through that initial stages of my career, I went from 35 millimetre film to medium format. And I you know, shooting big landscapes and I remember in 1982, I had my first canvas print done and it was done in a company in Vancouver and I lived in Saskatchewan at that point in time. And it was the way they did it back then in the early 80s was they took a print and they actually melted it into a piece of canvas, which is that's that's how they did their Canvas transfers. So I remember clearly buying that piece and saying to myself, Wow, this, this is going to change the world. Like, we can put our own photography on canvas now and actually become truly become an artist. And so, so that part of it that really, really excited me, and I continued to shoot medium format. And I've always been a Canon shooter. So I've always had to Canon film cameras had several level more, we're a bunch of them out, dropped a few over some cliffs. It's all of the exciting stuff, you know, and lo and behold, I remember talking to the Canon rep, and I think it was about 85 I had dropped canon f1 film camera off of off of a ledge that went on must have gone 500 feet below and bounced its way all the way down. And when I went down to the bottom and got it is still worked. So that was kind of kind of a testament to me, I guess as to how you know what the quality of the year was back then and, and I still shoot to this day, I still shoot digital, of course now, but all canon all canon gear all Canon L class, and it's a big investment. And it's something that you have to want, for me at least, I don't think I could change systems. As much as I know that there's new systems out there, but it's so costly to replace the glass. It's not so much the camera, it's Did you know, I got $60,000 worth of lenses in my in my arsenal, and I just can't afford to go and replace all that. So I love my Canon gear, and it does a great job. And I'll continue to shoot it. So yeah, that's, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:35   that's a good point, actually, you know, at the end of the day, like, especially in this era, like all the cameras working, working, you know, great, they all have their advantages and disadvantages, but I think at the end of the day, there was one word that you mentioned there, you know, like, artists, like, you know, that's, that's, that's at the end of the day, that is what's important, the people that actually use the tool, you know, they all great tool. Sure some of them have their, you know, advantages and disadvantages, but essentially, at the end of the day is the people that are using it and pushing it to the limit, because let's face it, you know, most of us doesn't even, you know, even close to pushing it to the limit. Right. So yeah, that's great that you mentioned that, that wow, that is such an inspiring is there is Jim Brompton  7:21   that, you know, I think Sandy, I think way back in, you know, in the 80s. And I used to follow a photographer from the US, his name was Ansel Adams. And I was just intrigued by his ability to capture landscapes. He shot mostly black and white, but he did shoot some colour. But his ability to create to create art, where his subject matter was sharp, sharp from the foreground to the background, just intrigued me. And it was something that I started to do on my own as well. So I followed his is his, his lead on that most of my art that I have for sale is sharp at the front end and sharp to the back. And I believe it creates a nice three dimensional effect, it creates some depth in the image. And you know, for that reason alone, I think he he's inspired so many different photographers. It's just crazy, you know, and I remember one of his quotes, he says the most important component of a camera is the 12 inches behind it. So, to me, you know, and he's right. He's, it's the artist that's behind the camera that makes the difference. It's not the camera. You know, sometimes people say to me, Jim, you must have a good camera. And well, yeah, I do have a good camera. But it's it's not it's not taking the picture. I'm taking the picture. So that's the difference, I guess, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:41   is yeah, that is true. I mean, we as a photographer, we hear that a lot. You know, I mean, like, at the end of the day, how many of you look at you know, go to a coffee and coffee copies, and they would have this, you know, I don't know, hundreds 1000s of dollars of copy machine, but you tried to copy it doesn't really taste that great. You know, you're right. It's just part of the equation. And I'm so glad that you brought out your inspiration because that was gonna be my next question. Like, where it was all inspired for him. So, yeah, that was amazing. Yeah. So take us through about like, you know, I mean, now you've got so many awards there, you know, have been published and also recognised in different galleries and all that. How does how does that journey works for you? Because, you know, I'm sure a lot of photographers and listeners that listening to this podcast, might think, Oh, well, you know, Jim, Jim is probably a prodigy or you know, he's talented. I don't have the eye for it. You know, what, what, what, what do you have to say to those people? Jim Brompton  9:49   Well, you know, I've been an educator for a long time, love to educate people on photography. I really truly do. And I think you know, like after in before I received my master's in in fine art photography, I've always been the person that likes to share my knowledge and my ability, there's so many photographers out there right now that, that keep that stuff so close to their chest, they just don't want to share that information as to how they shot it or where the location was. And I, you know, I think those people they need to revisit that they need to say to themselves, if I can do this, why can't I share that with another photographer, let him go and do his own twist on it, because they're going to be different, you can lie it line up 10 photographers shooting the same scene, and everybody's going to end up with a different image. And it's because they have lens choices, their, you know, their aperture choices, other filter choices, all of that kind of stuff will come into play. So there's, there's no way that that the information in regard to the location or how you capture the image, there's, there's no way that that shouldn't be shared. And I'm a big believer that, that it should be shared. And I share it all the time. So when I when I'm educating students on the art of fine art photography, and those are the classes that I actually teach, I, you know, we talk about composition, we talk about clutter, we talked about different things that you know, certain elements that make images better, that will make them all better photographers, and I can honestly say, of all of the people that I've taught over the years, I know that some of them, if not probably all of them, or most of them have, you know, gained information that they use regularly. Now, that makes their own imagery that much better. And they feel good about it, because now now they've got something that they can hang on the wall, or they can sell or whatever they want to do with it. And that's up to them. So I've always, I've always said to them as well hang your own art on the wall, don't buy mine just shoots up. It's beautiful. You it's yours. Why wouldn't you put that on your wall? You know? So that's the way I kind of roll. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:52   That's the yeah, that's, that's great. Um, you know, I think it was, there was a point that you touch that is really important to myself, is that one of the thing that one of the reasons why I love photography is the fact that we could see each other's perspective, everyone has different perspective, right? Everyone has a different way of looking at it and point of view. So you're right, like you could, there was so many times where I go with like, three or five of my friends going out shooting. And when we publish it on, you know, our social media, it is hardly the same, you know, the only one that are the same, or that iconic one, one that we continually see in the social media. And I believe a big part of that is because we are going to pre frame right, because we've been seeing that photo so many times. So I'm so glad that you mentioned that. Yeah, that's that's fantastic. But so you mentioned a little bit about, you know, your passion about teaching for others and, and like you helping your students to become better and to actually feel better about photography. How does that? How does that passion there? sparks from, you know, being a photographer to being an educator? Jim Brompton  13:03   Well, that's a good question. I'm continuing to learn all the time myself. So I mean, I would start right there, there isn't a day goes by that, that I, I don't take my gear out and try something different. So I continue to learn myself, and then I continue to share what I learned. So as far as, as far as what drives me to do that, I'm going to suggest to you that photography, for me is a very passionate about it. And I'm incredibly passionate about it. When I'm actually out shooting, there could be a train go by me and I won't even hear it. It can be 40 below zero and I'm not cold, it's just I get I focus on what I'm doing. And in that element, I forget everything else. And to me, if you if you can give that kind of dedication to to anything, you're going to have a good result. So that's how I kind of approached by my teaching my own photography with a lot of passion. And it has to have some good bones too, though, you know, so it needs there's, there's certain things like when I'm instructing we, we go through a checklist. You're not going to have a good foundation on a house if it isn't solid. So what do you need you in a landscape photography, especially fine art, landscape photography, you need a really good tripod, you got to start right there without that, man, you know, you're all over the place. And I think it's my opinion that tripods will make every photographer a better photographer. It allows them to take some time to create the composition. It gives them time to create level horizons. It stabilises stabilises. Sorry So yeah, it states. Let me just go back. Yeah, I want to get rid of it. But that's up to you. I'm gonna stop that from happening again. And you know what it was just one of those calls that doesn't matter, right So, back to what I was saying the, the foundation of a good photograph starts with a tripod. And when you have a good solid tripod, it's going to it'll carry all your all your lenses, it, it'll reduce your vibration, it allows you to compose better. I like to buy tripods that don't have centre columns, because I think centre column tripods can add the effect of some movement. So I like a platform tripod. I also like to buy tripods that are eight or nine feet tall, and they're fully extended. So I can work on on the sides of cliffs and, and mountains where I can I can reach out with with those legs that that will help stabilise it. And the key is to make sure everything's level. So large, big multi stitch Trent panoramas are achievable off a good quality tripod, I like to shoot them vertically. So those are the kinds of things that I teach. And that's probably the very first thing that I teach a stabilisation. So every landscape photographer, my opinion needs to start with that foundation. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:24   Oh, that's great. Yeah. I mean, tripod is, yeah, in landscape, especially is such a big Foundation, right? I mean, I carry a small travel tripod, because I travel a lot. But yeah, you're right, in many cases is like, Man, I have like, I wish I have, you know, the bigger tripod where it could actually sit properly, and then just not try to take 10 photos in hope that one of them becomes sharp. So yeah, that's That's very true. It's it's really funny that you mentioned that straight off the bat, because most people doesn't think about tripod until later. Right? They usually think about it like more about the the exposure triangle or whatever, whatever that is. Yeah, that is great to hear. I think a lot of the listener definitely can, can relate to that. Yeah. So like, going back to your, your, your awards, I think you got you got seven of the prestige was and one of the Jim Brompton  17:23   hits seven awards of distinction in 2007. Distinction, yeah. And one on prestige. And I had eight, eight entries, and I had won an award for every one of them. And was also nominated that year for nature photographer of the year through master photographers International. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:38   Yeah, so that's, that's amazing. Right. I mean, correlation, first of all, Burnham, you know, at the same time, so, um, how do you create those images? So, you know, what are your What are your thoughts? And how do you transfer your passion into your photos, so that it's actually different compared to, you know, make, you know, obviously, if you, if you're gonna make it to the top, you have to create something that that is different that is wild to not only to other photographers, but especially to this judges who's been regarded as a master in their own field. So yeah, talk us through how does how that process works for you. Jim Brompton  18:14   That process begins probably at 4:30am every day. So for me, being a landscape photographer for as many years as I have, I've always worked both ends at both ends of the sun. So it's sunrise sunset. The filters allow me to shoot through the day, so I can shoot all day long. But as the last 20 years have been a travel photographer, and we travel all over the world, and we'll we'll do long long term stays like we'll go to to Hawaii for two or three months at a time, or we'll go to Australia for six months, or five months or four months or, and then pop over to New Zealand and then jump to Fiji. And so we get to do a lot of travel. We do a lot of homework before we go to make sure that we go to the places that we want to see. I'm not a believer of shooting places that have been shot to death. I would rather find something that's more remote that people haven't seen. And I like to create my art from from that type of vision. Those visitors so it starts literally starts in the morning so I can give you an idea. So last time I was in Hawaii on the island of Hawaii, I was there for too little over two months, shot everyday shot every single day never took a day off. My day would start at 430 in the morning and grab a coffee, I'd make a walk down to the beach, which was about a five minute walk or less from where I was where we were living. Of course we take a look. We we rent long term places when we're going to be there for a long time. So we have a nice apartment that's furnished and so I'll walk down to the beach. I'm there at least 4030 to 40 minutes before the sun is starting to think about the horizon and that and that's when I start creating it at that point. I started looking at what the sun's going Do what kind of cloud cover we have. So I need, I need to make those decisions fairly quickly once the once the sunrise begins, but my pre planning for that is, like I say 30 or 40 minutes before before the sunrise. From that I'll determine my composition, I'll determine what I want to shoot what I want to tie into it where I want to put some rocks in the foreground. And so I work the beach, and then also determined by my filter usage, I'm a big believer of creating my images in the camera. So I really like the use of filters on my lenses, it allows me to be very artistic, it allows me to control colour, and glare and exposure time. And, and bright spots in that either left or right or the sun or, or the bottom or whatever you're dealing with. So there's so many different filters out there that I use on a regular basis, that ties it all together. So then I'm on the beach, and I'm looking at at what's going on. And at that point, I say, Okay, this is how I'm going to shoot this this morning. And I get my filters ready, and it gets set up and I start shooting. Now a lot of times, I won't shoot more than maybe 10 shots for the whole morning. But the pre planning has gone into it, the composition is there. I know what I want to do with my filters. I know, I know what I want to do with the ocean. And those types of scenes where I've got moving water and moving clouds, I like to create some art from that by either adding you know, a dancer and D on or are working with a grad or criss crossing to grads. The thing that's nice about our cameras this this day is that the there's so much resolution. So even if you do some Criss crossings on on some circular filters, you can still crop into it and still have a really, really good file. So you can do some things very artistic thinking outside the box that a lot of other photographers don't take the time to learn, or they've never tried it. And so those are the types of things that that get me excited. When I'm in the field. What can I do to this? How can I create this? How can I make this a better image? How can I make this so that when somebody looks at it, they're gonna stand in awe and stare at it, they don't have to buy it, I win, I'm a winner if they stand in front of it in awe. Or if they turn around and say to me, is this really a photograph. And I'm not a big believer of Photoshop. So I don't do a lot of work in Photoshop. One of the things that I learned a long time ago with digital cameras, and I tell a lot of my students give it a try is go into the back end of the cameras and turn everything off. Don't let your camera do anything for you. Turn off any auto enhancements, auto colours, auto sharpening everything, just turn it off. So now basically what you've got is an old film camera. Because in the old film days, the only thing that you could ever do would be to take the image, put it into a dark room and do a little dodging or burning and you're done. So you had to shoot it right back then, which when with the use of filters, you could do that and achieve that. So I'm doing the same thing with the digital world. But I'm not letting the camera do anything for me. So what I've learned, and I use Photoshop, and I don't use Lightroom. And I use Photoshop sparingly. But I'll take one of I'd say a single image file, not a not a multistage. And because everything's turned off on my camera, and I've used filters to create the image. There's so much detail in that in that raw file. So I'll dump it into Photoshop, and I simply will add black. And when I add black, it adds contrast and colour. And I'm done. I'm literally done with one swipe of one line. So that's the kind of stuff that our cameras are capable of creating for us like, if you take control of your camera, you're going to end up with those kinds of results, you're going to end up with that wow factor, you're good because you've used filters, you understand how to use them, you've created a beautiful scene with the composition you thought through it well before before it ever began. And that's that's the stuff that drives me every day. So then following that, the sun's gone, I usually will shoot a couple over my right shoulder or my left shoulder depending on what the Sun is highlighting now. So actually use the sun in a sunrise to the advantage of continuing to shoot past the actual sunrise itself, but I'll just face a different direction. And then I stopped in Hawaii situation then I would jump in the car and I'd go to the North Shore and I shoot waves all day long. And at the end of the day, the North Shore is fine to for for sunset, so I'd wait it out up there and shoot my sunsets and then I go home. So a very long day. I mean, they're 15 hour days, and I did it last time I was there. I did it every day for two months and five days I think. Wow. Yeah, that's all about it's all about dedication. Stan, you just got to be dedicated to it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:57   Yeah, that's that's a great insight. Um, But I think most of photographers out there who, who really, you know, trying to push to get that a wow factor or something that is different in their, in their, in their photography, because at the end of the day, you know, like, if you want to grab that wow factor, you have to be creative, you have to find a time where other people would be in bed or a time where other people would be facing the other way. Right. So that was, that's great that you mentioned that. Now one of the things that I want to talk about there, you know, I am aware that you're a case filter ambassador here in Canada, and you talk about filter just on that last point there, and how the filter can not only help to create a better quality images, but also help you with creativity. So yeah, like, talk to us a little bit about, you know, how, how can you know, how does the filter help you to create these images that are Wow, whether they are different, or, you know, they are a better quality than you would have shot without the filter? Jim Brompton  26:02   Right? Well, photography, as you know, is all about light. So if you can manage late, you, you know, you're going to end up being a good photographer. So my first filter that I go to, is the is the newest filter system on the market by case Global Case filters have absolutely shocked me, you know, my camera bag consists of probably near $5,000, where the filters from other companies made by other companies and I would always buy when a new company, when a new company had a filter come out, I would always buy it because I love shooting the filters. So I would just see how it compared to the last one I bought. I've been working with case now since November of 2019. Very, very pleased to be their Canadian ambassador for their company, their filters are the best I've ever worked with. And that's and I'm not saying it because I'm their ambassador. But I'm saying that because is there a great solid filter that rugged, there's no colour cast, I just love them. They're super thin. They're easy to use. And I think the way that they've designed them even like even with with regard to the magnetic filters that they make, now, people are going to start using stuff like that more because they're so easy to use. You know, I think about the days when I was in Saskatchewan and shooting at 40 below zero and screening filters on the front of my lens and my hands are frozen in the design of this magnetic system by having a ring screwed onto your lens before you can get out of your your warm car, and then set up a you can just literally just go click click click click click and your filters are stacking and it's just so nice to work with. My go to Filter though the very first one is always in will always be a polarizer it's something you can't do in post. So there isn't a programme out there that can add polarisation to an image. So if you've shoot an image without polarisation, you can't fix that. So polarisation to me is is one of the most important things it allows you polarisation will will increase your blues and your greens, it'll add you it'll add some colour. It'll, it reduces glare. Even if you're shooting a forest where they've got wet leaves and there's a glare on the leaves from the available light, you can dial that polarizer to eliminate that so you know you've got all you've got is this texture and you've got this beautiful saturation. So it is without a doubt my first filter probably 95% of every image every image that I've captured in the last 35 years I've had a polarizer on it. So that's my go to the new systems nowadays. Even if you get into the sheet glass systems like case makes an awesome K A K nine system is there 100 series and so you have 150 by 100 mil sheath glasses and they're you know there's a lot of a lot of leeway with that where you can you can move your your grads up and down so you can control the light where you want it. Another nice thing about that that system is if you if you if you've got some side light coming in, you can turn the whole adapter rings so that you can you can have your grant at an angle but the key to that is you've already put on a magnetic polarizer you've dialled at the end. And when you do turn that it's a geared ring, so it actually turns the polarizer so it keeps everything as set so that when you put your like I was talking about a foundation before so you're on a tripod, you get your your put your polarizer on your Dalit to your liking whatever you want. And then you start being creative with the rest of the filters to add you know control the light and add time. That's to me is key. This is when you become very artistic. This is when to me you become an artist you become a photography artist. And and that's something that that you're going to develop on your own. You're just going to be a star out, you're going to have a stop, people are going to be able to look at an image down the road. And they're going to say, Stanley shot that. I mean, that's this is the kind of style so that people will start recognising your workflow, what's your images look like. And in my case, I mean, I have, I have, because I've been shooting for so long. I've got nice big landscapes, I've got a lot of water work, I love my oceans and beaches. And I know when I post an image, that that has a wave in it, or a car scene or a sunrise of an ocean. I know, I get comments all the time on my social media, I knew whose photo this was, before I even looked at the name, you know, so those, that's the kind of stuff that you can get down the road, once you develop that style. And your style is going to be creative with the use of your filters. So I strongly recommend if anybody that is shooting now isn't shooting with filters, they need they need to visit that I think that they'll find that their imagery will get a lot better in the end. If they do that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:02   Yeah, that's that's fantastic. I mean, you know, I've been shooting with case filter, I've actually used the Leaf Filter before I got into case filter. And when case gonna approach me notice, I was excited. Actually, I've looked it up, I've seen the magnetic filter. And that was like, it was like mind blowing. Because before I used to have circular polarizer. And I will try to screw on the adapter ring on the Circular Polarizer oh my god, it was such a big nightmare. So that was such a big thing. And, you know, it was really funny that you mentioned how the circular polarizer is so important in the quality of a photo. Because, look, I mean, looking back through my photo series, sometimes I go back and I would start editing them. And I would go like, Man, I just wish I had a circular polarizer. Because, you know, back when I first started, I think that was a really good thing that you mentioned, back when I first started Circular Polarizer was more about for me, at least I understand it to take away the glare from the water. So if you want to see through the water, but actually, you don't realise that if you should, even in the forest, even if it's a form of overcast, you get a lot of glare on that leaf. So by putting that circular polarizer it takes away all that and the colour, and the texture just comes out. So yeah, like, that was amazing that you that you mentioned that. And yeah, like that. The the fact that you could actually control the light, that was the other thing that I think it was really, really great that you mentioned it, because I always knew that light was important is the most important or photography, right? I mean, at the end of the day, if it's dark, no lights at all, it's just pure dark, it doesn't matter what you do with it. But you mentioned that using a filter, you could actually control the light, there was actually a big aha moment for me, because even though I knew it, he was, that was the main purpose of it. I never really think of it that way. So so it's definitely a game changer there. And so as a as a sunrise and sunset shooter, do you do use a lot of the reverse grant or, or also known as the sunset or sunrise filter? And, yeah, take us through how that kind of helps in your photography. Jim Brompton  33:24   Yeah, you know, at the nearing the end of the day, once the sun actually sets the, the reverse ground is a filter I like to use because it's a little lighter on the top, and but you can still control the horizon. So but what that allows you to do is to is to compare to just a grad nd it allows you to, to see because it's a little bit lighter on the top, you can actually see the stars and whatnot starting to appear, but you can still see the colour of the horizon, or you'll see you'll start to catch some of the Northern Lights, early early Northern Lights in the evening. So because because the filter is not dark to the top, it allows you to to, to capture that beginning of that of the of the end of that sunset. So it's always a, it's always been something that I've really enjoyed shooting is is once the sun's down, we still have a really nice colour along the horizon plane. But you can start to see the, you know, the Milky Way or not the Milky Way necessarily, you need to be darker, but the northern lights you can start to see the northern lights starting to get active. And then you can start shooting and you still have colour on the horizon and you've then you've got the Northern Lights already appearing. So you can't do that without without the use of a filter. It's just not going to happen. So the back in the old days, I mean we had graduated neutral density filters but there was never a reverse grad. I mean that was I've never heard it you know, all of a sudden hey, there's a reverse grad on the on the market and now there's a centre grant. And you know, those are the specialty filters that are out there that will allow you to enhance your imagery and make you a better photographer and make you stand out. So you know, like talk a little bit about the standard grads. So now instead now you got a strip right across the middle of the filter, and it's laid on the top and laid on the bottom. But if you take that filter and turn it sideways, now you got to strip down the middle. So now you got a waterfall or extreme that's running past you. Typically there are two stops are greater brighter the water so now you can control that and still have beautiful colours on the edge of your rivers or your streams. So now you don't have to worry about about blowing out the the river, you can add another filter on it now you can start to create what you want the water to look like. So, you know, you can go from two seconds to 20 seconds by adding a six top end on top of the centre grant. So it's this is where you This is where fine art photography really takes place is because now you're the artist and you get to choose what the end result is, there's a lot of a lot of places that I'll go to, and I'll get set up. And before I even take a picture, I know what the end result is going to be. Because I've thought through it, I know what my camera's capable of, I know what my filters are capable of doing. And because I've done it for so many years, I can see the end result before I even take the first photo. So that to me is something that I've earned. I've learned that because I've shot millions of photographs in my day. And it's kind of like, the old day where even now, you know, I don't rely on my metres very often, okay to know up here where, where I need to because I always shoot manually. So I don't talk where I need to set my exposure and my and I always shoot, I always shoot F eight or F 11 Seldom do I shoot beyond F 11. But unless I'm looking for some softness. But I mentioned earlier about Ansel Adams and I like to be sharp from front to back. So pretty much all my my cameras, all my lenses, they're happy. And what I call a happy spot is the sharpest part of that lens. In most lenses, it's midway between if it's a two eight lens and goes to f 22. It'll be in that F 11 Ranger F eight F 11. There's a lot of programmes out there that have done tests on these so you can actually see, you know, which which, which aperture gives you the the best sharpness. So I always say to myself, Well, why don't I rely on rely on that I mean, if this is if it's if it's F eight or F 11, then I want to shoot F eight or F 11. And so I do that. So that gives me the ability to have something very sharp. And then I start creating outside that sharpness, the use of filters to create the actual image. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:36   That's the Yeah, that's great. It's actually really funny when you when you think about filters, because like, we there's a lot of misconception that especially for people who doesn't really get into photography, you know, all into that depth. People think filters are the things that they put on Instagram, right? So there is a big misconception about filters. And the funny thing about filters is actually, it helps you to do less postproduction instead of you know, the other way around. And, yeah, that was really funny. Because like, when I when I see people who cannot comment, it's like, you know, it's like, stop using the filter, like, let let the nature like, you know, bring out the true nature. And I was like, actually, if you use it correctly, it would actually bring the true nature instead of you know, having to process it. So that's really funny that you mentioned that. And yeah, the sunset filter is same with you. I'd never heard of it until up until I got the master kid. And I was like, wow, I didn't even realise that the light was like that, when the sun actually disappear on the horizon until I use them. I'm just like, Wow, that's amazing. So, yeah, that was really great that you brought that up. Yeah, look, I'm we're coming towards the end here. I think one more question that I'd like to get from you. You know, if you were, if you were to give an advice to your younger self, you know, when you started photography, and, you know, I know that a lot of people out there realise that they liked photography, but, you know, they just not sure where to start. And I think with the social media that a lot of people kind of, like, they get discouraged because they see amazing photos out there and they feel like I don't think they you know, they don't think they can, they can do it themselves. And I'm sure as an educator, you you'll come across that often. So, you know, if you were to tell your younger self you know, and you're pessimistic self, I suppose I'm not sure if you were like that. I know that I gone through that phase before. What would you tell that um, you know, your younger self Jim Brompton  39:46   over the years have made a lot of mistakes. And I think mistakes are, are good, are good as well because they, they, they teach you what not to do. So I mean, I look back 40 years years ago, and, you know, I'm thinking to myself, well, I want to be a photographer, how do I make money and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, I think now that where I am today, I don't think the money should be as important as I was I put the weight on it back, then I think, I think the the ability to become a better photographer back then, is something that I wish I would have developed quicker than I did. And so is through that length of time, where you make those mistakes, and you and you and you, and you learn from your mistakes, you know, over a period of 15 years, if that could have, if that process could have sped up would have been so much better, but, but I'm a self taught photographer, I don't, I, I've never taken any education on photography, other than other than perhaps the odd thing online now, but not back then, of course, we didn't have computers back then. So, you know, it's it's something that I wish I could have learned quicker, I guess. But now that now where I am today, and like I mentioned earlier, I still continue to learn, I mean, every day I go out I shot went shooting yesterday, and, and I was playing with some filters and just doing some some different things that I hadn't done before. So I'm out testing the waters, as you know, maybe a good way to put it. But it's a it's a continuation for me. And you know, and I don't see myself quitting anytime soon. And I'm probably you know, going to be going to be one of those guys that that loves his job, right to the end. So what's better than to be able to make a living as a photographer and a travel photographer to travel the world, and then to have galleries to sell your work and to print yourself, you know, I print for other photographers too, all the time. And, you know, I see, I see their abilities. And I see, I see some stunning stuff, like, oh my god, there's some great photographers coming up. In the world that I've been, you know, in Canada, I've been praying for someone in the US, but their work is exceptional, you know, and I can just see that at some point in time, they're going to be, you know, well recognised for their ability. And their, you know, then they shoot all different kinds of cameras, we talked a little bit about that before, you know, the mirrorless or, or, you know, the big name brands, well, I see quality files from other photographers that shoot a variety of different pieces of equipment, and they're all good. There. You know, as much as I mean, I shoot canon, I think you should canon as well. But, you know, I look at some of the Nikon files and look at some of the Sony files and stuff. And I get to see them firsthand in my print lab, and their quality quality stuff. So you know, I don't think a person can say, to anybody out there, don't buy this camera, or my best advice to anybody that's out there right now is spend the money on your glass, buy a good lens, cheap out on the body, the body will carry you through anyway. But if you have good glass that you can carry down the road, when you do eventually get full frame or whatever. Keep that in mind when you're buying it, but spend spend the extra money on the glass, don't don't go with the kid lenses. You know, it's just if you want to become a very good photographer, then you've got to think I got to spend some money. And that starts with buying a good tripod, like I said earlier. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:14   Yeah, that's, that's amazing. You know, I think making making mistakes is, is it's the most underrated thing people say, you know, like, oh, a lot of people. I mean, I know, when I was growing up, everyone, my parents would always be careful and all that stuff, you know, I wish going back, you know, my parents would just say, you know, go fall and you know, go do that. And I know they do it from their love, right? They don't want me to get hurt and stuff like that. But that's what I told my students as well I just go make mistakes like, sure, I think this is the best way but do the other way. And I think the worst thing as an educator educator we can do is trying to close their their perspective. So that was great that you mentioned that and I think one of the other thing that I want to mention out there especially for those of the listeners who shoot with a higher end camera, stop putting you know cheap filters in there because you spend so much money on your lenses and then you put you know things like Amazon Basics lenses just takes away all that it's kind of defeats the whole purpose. So make sure you invest on some if you already invest on your lens and your camera then make sure you invest on on the filter as well. So yeah, like, wow, there's just so many knowledge that you share with us always we can go all day but this but Jim Brompton  44:33   the problem that's the problem. We literally could go all day with this and I'm not kidding. I could five hours from now we could still be talking about it is there's lots of tricks and techniques out there that I've learned over the years that that are great to share with people. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:46   Yeah, and I think the fact that you say you know never stop learning is so important. Especially for those of you who already kind of made it or you know, who already think they're one of the better one out there. The worst thing you can and do is that you need to think that you don't need to learn any more, because that's how you grow. That's how you develop your creativity. All right. Well, Jim, thanks a lot for your time here. I know you have a busy day. So I'm, I'm so glad that you spare your time to be here with us. And look for the listeners out there who, who interested to learn more about yourself who want to see more of your fine art photography and your fabulous images? What is the best way? Or where is the best way to find you? Jim Brompton  45:29   Well, my website, I guess. So it's just gem brompton.com. And there's a contact link there that you can, you can get in touch with me, or on my Facebook page, Jim Brompton photography, that's another good way to reach out. I also have a case, Canada filters page, so you can reach me through there as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:52   Cool. Well, thank you very much, Jim. And, look, we can hunters, thank you very much for tuning in. And I'm sure you get a lot of gems from that. And look, if you're interested on a case filter, you can contact me or Jimmy himself and I will post the link to both have our profile on the link. So you could just contact us and don't forget to check out Jim's work. It's just quite amazing. A lot of his work is actually keep turning something that is nothing to something. You know, a lot of these work are quite simplistic, but nevertheless, it's just so incredibly beautiful and vibrant. So highly encourage you to check out his work. But thanks a lot for tuning in. And don't forget to subscribe and turn on the notification button so that you know when the next episodes coming up. But thanks a lot, and I'll see you guys next week. Catch you later. Jim Brompton  46:46   Thanks. Thanks. Really appreciate the invite. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:49   Yeah, no worries. Catch you then Jim. Yeah.