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Meet our guest this time Patti Oskvarek who, like many, got her first job while in high school working at a Derry Queen. It wasn't long before she became a manager. As Patti and I talk about her first managerial job and how the role of a manager has changed today Patti says that managers now are under so much more stress because they are required to do so much more with so much less support.   As we talk Patti explains that as she progressed from working at the Derry Queen to increasingly more demanding positions within the banking industry she didn't think much about nor did she have any real “Work-Life Balance”. She worked all day at the office and then came home to do more work at home. She did have a supportive husband, but even so the stress of not having balance in her life eventually caused her to have an ulcer.   As Patti tells it, she finally retired in her 50s and began working toward and becoming a work-life balance coach and Reiki Master. Today she even is a host on two different podcasts. Patti and I talk quite a bit about the concepts of work-life balance, leadership and how a coach can help people attain the balance sometimes they don't even know they want. We even talk a bit about just what a coach does and how he or she can help people who are willing to explore their own lives. I think you will enjoy this episode and come away with some new and updated ideas.       About the Guest:   Patti Oskvarek of Coaching for Inspiration with Patti. Patti is a Certified Professional Coach and Certified Master Coach specializing in Work-Life Balance and Leadership coaching, Reiki Master, and Podcaster. Patti inspires others to pursue their passions in life through their relationships, careers, business, and leadership development.  She became a Coach and Reiki practitioner to help people follow their hearts, use their talents, and live purposeful, balanced, and fulfilling lives. With a unique approach to coaching, Patti has dedicated herself to helping others find passion, purpose, and confidence in all they do.  Her theory is that to find business success and know how to find happiness in other areas of life and learn the true meaning of work-life balance for yourself. Patti is committed to helping managers, supervisors and others become better leaders and live more purposeful, balanced lives outside work.   Ways to connect with Patti:   Website: https://coachingforinspirationwithpatti.com/coaching/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/coachingforinsp Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachingforinsp Twitter: https://twitter.com/coachingforinsp  LinkedIn: Coaching for Inspiration with Patti- https://www.linkedin.com/company/coaching-for-inspiration-with-patti  YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLXTGfZ1hZqGaKJ24hfnyWA Building Better Relationships at Home and Work with Angela and Patti Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/4rVQIdCNrMoU3gRhZsvLt9?si=0GsSNkccQo-TuG6JZWHM3g Exploring Life and Work with Patti - From Chaos to Calm Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/70FztukC0x4anAWdhrGyc0?si=VDVqhUz0Qq-_kK8clj0vRw     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Our guest today is Patti Oskvarek, and Patti is a person who specializes a lot in work life balance. She's a Reiki manager, our Master, and has a lot of information. I think that's going to be value of value to all of us. She is a coach that really works a lot in the whole area of work life balance. I'm really interested to hear a lot about that. I met Patti, as we have had a number of other guests come this way through podapalooza. This time it was the latest podapalooza in podapalooza 11, and it just seemed like Patti was a person we really needed to have an unstoppable mindset. And here we are. So Patti, I want to welcome you to the podcast, and thank you very much for being here.   Patti Oskvarek ** 02:15 Oh, thank you for having me. Michael, this is great. It'll be   Michael Hingson ** 02:19 fun. Yeah. Well, why don't we start, why don't you tell us a little bit kind of about the early Patti growing up and all that stuff.   Patti Oskvarek ** 02:29 So growing up, I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, and   Michael Hingson ** 02:34 I was an only child in the summer, yes,   Patti Oskvarek ** 02:37 very hot. And I was an only child, so I was very shy during my times of growing up and through life. And my first job, I worked in a Dairy Queen, and when I turned 18, I became a manager, and that's kind of how I started with management. And throughout my life, pretty much have been a manager or supervisor. And in my life, I didn't have work life balance. Work always seemed to come first and everything else came second. And as you know, Michael, that's not always a good thing, having work come first instead of having a personal life as well. So I had a lot of regrets because I had put work above other things that were important. So I became a coach to help others in leadership and work life balance, so that they can learn from my example and I wish I had had a coach when I was in leadership. And I've learned a lot through my life about working 24/7, and then eventually, what if work is gone? What are you going to do in your life, and but I have a family. I have two adult children and a husband and a cat. I love my cat, and I love my family, and I have five grandchildren. So throughout my life, it's been wonderful, and I love my family, and I've learned through the years of really trying to incorporate some work life balance so that you can live life to the fullest.   Michael Hingson ** 04:57 Well, tell me so how long have. Was it you were a manager of a Dairy Queen? What year was that?   Patti Oskvarek ** 05:04 That was in the 80s. Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 05:07 so what was it like managing a Dairy Queen in the 80s? And what I'm really curious about is, if you can make the comparison, what was it like then, as opposed to what it is now, you must have visited Dairy Queens of relatively recent times, maybe not, but I'm just curious if you can can observe or comment on what it was like then and how it differs now.   Patti Oskvarek ** 05:33 Yes, so that was my first job, and it it was surprising, because most of the time I worked alone and didn't have really the interaction with the staff, other than, you know, between times of when they would come in and tell them what needs to be done and all that kind of stuff. So where I worked, it wasn't as busy in the winter time as it was in the summertime. In the summertime, I would work with the employees, but in the winter time, a lot of times I worked alone. So how is that different now? And the Dairy Queen that I worked at, all we had was ice cream, so that's why it was a lot different nowadays, you see how much different it is with, you know, the drive through and all the employees and and having all the different variety of products and services.   Michael Hingson ** 06:40 You think it's tougher to be a manager today because of all that? I   Patti Oskvarek ** 06:45 think so. I think you're under more stress and more responsibility Anya than it was in the past. Yeah and yeah. And then I moved on to banking, and then I moved on to government. So I had a variety of different different platforms that I worked on in different ways of doing things.   Michael Hingson ** 07:10 Well, it it is interesting. I think there's a lot to be said for with the way things are going that management and managing is is more stressful. And I suspect that if you went further up in the corporate structure of Dairy Queen, or anywhere that again, you would see that the the environment is putting more stress on the typical Dairy Queen manager because of all of the things that you're you're talking about, and then, in general, in a sense, management is more stressful because you're expected to do more and with less, with less. Yeah, and I think that's really a very important point. It's doing more with less. And I'm not sure corporate always gets that, which, again, goes back to what you were talking about in terms of work, life balance and dealing with that. Well, when you left Dairy Queen, what did you exactly go do?   Patti Oskvarek ** 08:10 I went into banking, and that was, yeah, and that was in the early 80s and 90s. And a lot of things happened throughout when I imagined that I was going to work for the bank for the rest of my life. That was my plan. Ever since I was a kid, I thought banking was where I wanted to go. So, you know, things happened in in the 80s and 90s with banking, it changed a lot. A lot of people were part time instead of full time, things were a lot different from when I started to when I left, and what it is today, I was actually somebody that would stand outside to get people to use the ATM and train them how to use it, and there was a lot of resistance at that time of using it, and now it's something that they use all the time. And as well as back then, you know, the technology wasn't like it is today, where you have an app. And so I started as a teller, and then I went to a branch operation supervisor in a very short time, and then at a young age, and I had employees that were older than me. And with the bank, you know, you worked a lot of hours. And I had a I had small children, so that was one of the reasons why I decided a friend of mine and a former supervisor of my manager, she had went to work for government, and she says, Patty, you should. Come to and I thought, Oh, that'll be a great way to have more balance in in my life and not working so many hours. So that's where I made the change, in the 90s, and I was fortunate enough to start working young and being able to retire in my 50s. So that was a good, good thing, but still, I struggled with the work life balance, putting work above other things that should have been important as well, like going to my children's baseball game or things like that that I couldn't do because I was working and taking vacations and things like that. I was putting things aside for work, and I was putting that pressure on myself.   Michael Hingson ** 11:04 What was that doing to family?   Patti Oskvarek ** 11:08 You know, I was fortunate that I had my husband. He, he would pick up the slack where I wasn't. But then, you know, I would be up at night, cleaning the house while the kids were asleep, I was still with, you know, I still came home at a decent hour, but I was always thinking about work and what needed to be done next, and those kind of things, what?   Michael Hingson ** 11:36 Well, so when you so eventually, I know we're skipping forward, but again, the job that you took up in the 90s was, what? Again, banking, yeah, so it was all   Patti Oskvarek ** 11:46 involved. And then I went, then I went into government, yeah, all right, so   Michael Hingson ** 11:51 when you retired in the in your 50s, why did you do that?   Patti Oskvarek ** 11:58 So I had that I could retire with 80 points, which means your age and your years of service. So I was able to do that, and I wanted to do something more. And that's where the coaching came in, is I went to school before I retired to prepare myself to get into coaching. So I had a plan, and that's what I teach people, is to have a plan of what you want to do in life and make it happen. So what got   Michael Hingson ** 12:38 you to the point of being such a strong advocate for the whole concept of work, like balance was there? Was there one thing that made that happen?   Patti Oskvarek ** 12:50 Yes, I think throughout my life, I realized that I needed to change my habits, and it affected my health. I had an ulcer in my 20 in my 30s. Excuse me, in my 30s, and that was a wake up call, because the doctor said I was in the hospital for five days, and the doctor said to me, you need to change something in your life that's causing you to have all of this stress, and that was my first wake up call of realizing I was putting so many other things in front of what I truly wanted in my life And what I wanted to do, and slowly changing it didn't happen overnight. It's still a struggle, and I want to help others so that they don't go through what I went through, and to help people realize there's more to life than work   Michael Hingson ** 13:58 so there wasn't like a real crisis that caused you to suddenly have an epiphany and decide, work, life, balance and so on, and coaching was so important, but it's something that you eventually or gradually came to.   Patti Oskvarek ** 14:13 Yes, I was at a networking meeting, and I was giving a presentation, and after the presentation, this lady came up to me because I was talking about leadership. This lady came up to me, and she goes, You should be a coach. And I, at that time, I didn't know what a coach was, didn't know what a life coach was. And and she goes, you're, you would be really, really good at being a life coach. So I started checking into what is that, and I realized, Oh, this is something that I could really help people. And I wish at the time I had somebody like that, a coach, a leadership coach, a work life balance coach, that could have helped me. Me throughout the certain challenges that I had in my career and in my life. So as I was learning about coaching, I felt this is really what I want to do. I want to help others as well as myself. I learned a lot through the coaching process and learning about coaching, it's, it's such an excellent thing to have in your life. What   Michael Hingson ** 15:34 was the process that you went through to become a coach? What? How did you learn? Or, what did you learn? How did it all kind of come about?   Patti Oskvarek ** 15:44 So this person that I knew that was an acquaintance of mine, she knew a business coach, and she put me in contact with her, and I asked her a lot of questions about coaching and how the process works. How? How do I be able to do this? And I was still working full time, and she put me, she suggested that I go to the international coaching Federation, I see f website and look for coaching schools. So that's what I did. I found a coaching school that was after hours or that worked with my schedule, so I could work during the day and get coaching training in the evenings or before work. So it was really flexible, and that's how I started on my journey of becoming certified as a coach. And there would be, sometimes I'd be five o'clock in the morning, I'd be doing my coaching class or things like that, or it'd be after seven o'clock in the morning, and the in the first coaching school that I went to was center for coaching certification, and then later on, when I got my master coaching, I went to world Coach Institute. So both of them were schools that were for people all over the world. So it had various hours that you could do your coaching certification, which worked for me at that time on my life.   Michael Hingson ** 17:38 So it was online.   Patti Oskvarek ** 17:40 Well, one was online, and we one was where it was on phone, and we would meet that way on the phone and do it that way as as well as as well as online. So there was different ways of doing it. It wasn't as during that time, the on online zoom wasn't popular as it is now.   Michael Hingson ** 18:16 Yeah, needless to say, that changed a lot, of course, during the pandemic. So when did all this happen? What? What year was this that you started coaching?   Patti Oskvarek ** 18:28 So, 2015 Okay, when I started? And, yeah, so it's been a while. That's That's why it wasn't as like today, where you do the Zoom calls and things like that, right? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 18:45 yeah. So a lot it was a lot more back in in those days, it was more by phone or in person, of course, with another option, yeah. Where did Reiki into it? Enter into it?   Patti Oskvarek ** 18:59 Reiki came into it because my husband and I had went to send out Sedona, and I had a friend that was a Reiki Master, so I used to go to her to help me, you know, to relieve stress and all of those things to relax. And I told my husband, why don't you go have a Reiki session? And he loved it. He kept asking me for like, a year and a half Patty, you need to learn how to do this. And he was my biggest person that really, wanted me to do Reiki, and that's how I got into Reiki. Was my friend that I knew, and then with my husband, because he wanted me to do Reiki on him. And so incorporating Reiki, it helps you relax. It's energy healing. It helps the body heal as well. Because. Because you're in a meditative state, and it really helps clients, because they're under so much stress that it helps relax them and stop their mind from running, you know, continuously, and they're able to come up with solutions, or just have their body relax and heal from all the stress that they're under, and that's how I incorporate Reiki into my coaching. Tell me   Michael Hingson ** 20:30 a little bit about how Reiki works, or what you do, if you would. Okay,   Patti Oskvarek ** 20:34 so Reiki, I I hover my hands over over the people's body, and I tell them to relax and just let go, and the energy flows through me into them. And some people can see colors. Some people can actually feel the heat coming onto their body. Everybody's different, and each session is different, but some people feel nothing. But it doesn't mean that the Reiki is not working, and even if it's 15 minutes, you can feel the difference. People feel so calm and relaxed and just feel relief from the Reiki sessions.   Michael Hingson ** 21:25 So is Reiki something that you mainly need to do in person? Is it something that you can do in some way virtually today? Yes,   Patti Oskvarek ** 21:36 yes, I do Reiki virtually. And what I do is I have one client that I do FaceTime with. I have another that, you know, zoom, and we meet, and either on FaceTime or zoom, I've even done Reiki off of pictures onto to my clients, and they can actually feel the Reiki going through their body. You don't have to do it. You don't have to do it in person. You can do it virtually,   Michael Hingson ** 22:17 which is kind of fascinating, and it's great that you can do that and still have a good, strong impact on people. So how do you work that into or integrate that into the other coaching that you do?   Patti Oskvarek ** 22:35 So for for me, I will talk about, you know, there's, I have different things. I have Reiki. They can sign up for Reiki. They can sign up for leadership coaching, work life, balance coaching. I use affirmations with them too, so they they can schedule me for what they would like if they want Reiki, if they want coaching.   Michael Hingson ** 23:04 So they're somewhat different, yeah,   Patti Oskvarek ** 23:08 but with Reiki, it really helps if you're struggling with something going on in your life and you just want you just need to relax a lot of times, some ideas come up, or solutions come up as well, just like coaching with asking questions and going down deep into the situation, the client always has the solution. They just need to get there to have that solution come up for them   Michael Hingson ** 23:44 well, so you you certainly bring a lot of skills and offer a lot of opportunity in doing all this, which is really kind of cool. Do you find that sometimes you can integrate Reiki into your leadership coaching or some of the other things that you do in terms of you use that to get people to relax and be more open. Or does that happen?   Patti Oskvarek ** 24:12 Yes, yes. So you can do the 15 minute Reiki session and then go into a coaching session, because they're relaxed, they feel good, they're ready to open up and be able to look at things maybe a little differently than They were in their stress mode.   Michael Hingson ** 24:40 Okay? Which, which certainly kind of makes sense. Do you think that you're now really doing what you were meant to do? Is this really your purpose in life? Do you think   Patti Oskvarek ** 24:54 I feel it is i feel that i. So it helps people, and it helps people become better leaders, better people in general, because of the fact that they're taking time for themselves, as well as learning skills and learning how to deal with things in different positive ways, and it helps them figure out how to handle things better, because they're less stressed and more open To making positive changes within themselves and to help manage things in a in a better way than they were before.   Michael Hingson ** 25:49 Do you encounter people when you first start who are looking for a coach or whatever, but when you start to talk about work life balance, they resist it and say, Oh no, I'm really fine. And that you you figure out ways to open them up and get them to consider new ideas.   Patti Oskvarek ** 26:08 Yes, a lot of times, you know, people don't believe in work life balance. And what work life balance is, to me, is you find business and personal success, you must know how to find happiness in other areas of your life and learn the true meaning of work life balance, what may be work life balance for me, will be Totally different. For you, we each have different life stages, goals and likes and aspirations and work life balance is a continuous thing that you do continuously. It's finding what you want in your life and what you don't want in your life and incorporating ways to get the things that you do want in life so that you feel good in your living a purposeful, balanced life outside of work.   Michael Hingson ** 27:13 We've been talking a lot about work life balance. Maybe what we really ought to do, though, is define it a little bit. So really, what is work life balance.   Patti Oskvarek ** 27:22 So work, life balance is what really means you want in life. So say that you want to spend more time with your children, or you want to spend more time at home or things like that. Balance isn't this perfect wheel. It's what is your priority or what you want. A lot of people that work, 24/7, they have no friends, they have nothing but work. So it's incorporating, okay, what do I want in my life. Do I want a hobby? Do I want to go on vacation? What do I want in my life, and how can I achieve it, and then incorporating that into your life so that you have something more than work?   Michael Hingson ** 28:17 What do you do with the person who just says, Well, I really enjoy just working 24/7 or working all the time, but I don't need any of the other stuff.   Patti Oskvarek ** 28:27 Well, then I'm not the coach for them, right? And but I'll talk to them, and we'll, we'll see why that is, or how they feel, but if they're not willing to want to have anything more in their life than work, then that's not I'm not the coach for them. Unless they want to be a better leader, then I'll help them with those skill sets.   Michael Hingson ** 29:02 With but does that. When you start to talk about leadership and so on, are you then able to work back into the discussion ever the whole concept of work life balance, so that they understand work is great, but you will, but you're not going to become your best leader if you don't spend some time doing other things or relaxing or learning about leadership, which you can't do when you're just supposedly leading people or working, yeah, right.   Patti Oskvarek ** 29:31 I think it's all about relationship and communication. Once they get to know you, once you you're coaching them, you can work those other things into the relationship. It's all about getting to know them, then getting to know you, and to help ask the right questions to get them to a place where they'll be open to work, life balance and. That does happen when you build relationships with others and that they know, like and trust you, and they start to become open to looking at things a little differently, especially when you start asking questions about, what do they want in life? What are they missing in life? Those kind of things to really open up. Oh, there is more to life than just work.   Michael Hingson ** 30:28 Maybe we should also approach it from the other standpoint. What to you, does work life imbalance mean? So   Patti Oskvarek ** 30:36 work life imbalance is when you have an unmanageable workload and deadlines and emails and texts and productive meetings that spill over to your personal life, which causes you overwhelm and also your employees overlap well and just working through those tasks and how to delegate and time management and things like that to help with the imbalance. And that happens a lot. People take on more and don't ask for help, and teaching those skills on how to ask for help so that things can be more manageable.   Michael Hingson ** 31:20 How would you define what it really means to be a leader? That's probably a relevant discussion to have when we talk about leadership coaching and we talk about people leading other people. What is a leader?   Patti Oskvarek ** 31:33 Well, a good leader, yeah, a good leader, to me, is someone that learns from their mistakes and use tools that enhance them, such as journaling or sitting in self reflection, and invite input from their employees and from others to come up with solutions and new ideas. A good leader listens with compassion and understanding and assists whenever possible, and is willing to stand out and be part of the solution so that they can help their goals and be very compassionate and listen to your employees, find out what's going on, build a relationship of trust. That is what a good leader is. To me,   Michael Hingson ** 32:21 trust is a very, extremely vitally important part of the process, and we oftentimes forget or just aren't really willing to deal with trust. One of the things that I say often about dogs is that dogs love unconditionally, and I think that is true, but dogs don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between a dog and a person, typically speaking, is the dogs are, at least, generally speaking, unless some incredible trauma happened to them, dogs are are open to trust and open to trusting, and you have to earn their trust, and they have to earn your trust. I think there's, there's nothing better than a two way trusting relationship between person and dog when that really happens. And I know that I when working with guide dogs, it's all about developing a trust. And I think it takes a good year to truly develop the trusting relationship. But trust is an extremely important part of it, and if you don't develop that, you'll never be able to to lead or or truly influence what is, what is going on in your life and and others.   Patti Oskvarek ** 33:40 Oh, I love that. I definitely agree. And if you make a mistake, say sorry and explain what happened in really opening up the communication with the person that you made the mistake with and learn from those mistakes. That's the most important thing. Reflect on it. What could I have done differently? And always keep that in mind when you're making decisions, really think it out. And there are times when you can't, and I understand that, but you're doing the best that you can, and you learn every day from those life lessons to be a better manager, a better leader, a better person, a better parent, a better spouse, all of those things. Each day you learn something new, and you continue on to do the best you can and to continue to be compassionate and empathetic to others. One of   Michael Hingson ** 34:48 the things that I would say about leadership and leading is that leaders have to work at really work at understanding the 10. Balance of the people who work for them or who they lead, and the part of the reason for that is there may very well be times that someone else is better suited to take the lead in a particular situation, and the good leader knows when to allow that person to excel and lead and take control, to deal with whatever comes along, and then the leader who is overall responsible can can then step back in when necessary. But Good leaders know when to give up leadership to those who are better talented and better suited for a particular situation than they Oh,   Patti Oskvarek ** 35:43 I definitely agree with that. It's so important to know who to give tasks to and not to micromanage. And what I found in leadership is they'll come up with some great ways to do things that you never thought of and to praise them for that it's really important to give people the chance to learn and expand and grow, and that's what a leader does. They help people see things about themselves that they didn't see within themselves, and   Michael Hingson ** 36:29 help them bring that gift out. Yes, I once attended a seminar conducted by an organization. It was a leadership seminar, and the person running it was long term president of the organization, and he asked a question on one night, and well, one night, the Saturday Night of the seminar, he said, What is the most important thing that he is president and All of us should be doing in the organization, and people talked a lot about the vision and the mission and other things like that. And he finally said, but that's not the most important thing. The most important thing that we have to do is look for the next president and leader of the organization, and His ego was such that he was willing to recognize that the time would come that he would need to retire and that someone else did need to take the reins of the organization, and that, in fact, did happen, But I thought it was a very profound statement on his part to say the most important thing we could be doing is looking for the next long term leader of the organization, because otherwise the organization's not going to survive.   Patti Oskvarek ** 37:53 Yes, that's so true, and helping your staff learn new things and to train them in a variety of things. And even in your position, does good for you, does good for them and does good for the organization. I always, I always trained my staff that if I left, and that's what I did, is they could, they could run everything without me there, and that's so important.   Michael Hingson ** 38:30 One of my philosophies when I was running a sales organization and being a sales manager and so on is I always said to employees, I'm not here to boss you around. I hired you because you convinced me that you could sell the product. But what you and I and it's an individual thing with each employee, what you and I need to do is to figure out how I can add value to what you do and enhance what you do to make you more successful. And not everyone got that   Patti Oskvarek ** 39:04 right. Yeah, it's very important, and that's very important, to learn how to communicate with each staff member. You're going to communicate differently with each staff member because they're different individuals, and they think differently, and they have different wants and needs. In being a good leader, you figure that out. There's going to be some people that want to move up, and there's going to be some people that just want to stay in the same job, but you help expand them in in them grow in the way they want to help in the company. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 39:46 yeah, and, and some people just want to stay in the job. They don't have the aspiration to become boss or whatever, and that's okay, but they certainly still have good talents that you want. To be able to help expand and integrate into the organization, right?   Patti Oskvarek ** 40:07 And and giving them new things to do and try, really opens up for them to feel successful and to figure out, oh, maybe this is what I want to do. Everyone's a leader. Even the people that don't want to be a leader, they're a leader in some way of what talents they have and how they show those talents, and how they work, and things like that. And a lot of people don't recognize that.   Michael Hingson ** 40:38 Tell me if you would something about your style as a coach, I think every coach and every person has different styles of doing things. So what's your style?   Patti Oskvarek ** 40:46 Well, as we talked about before, I'm unique in my leadership and work life balance coaching, because I incorporate Reiki and affirmations during my coaching session, and I love helping others find their passion and their purpose and the confidence and all that they do. And I coach the whole person, whether it's work and personal life, because both of them affect each other, and that's my unique coaching. Because when I start coaching somebody, we we first begin with one thing, and then eventually we figure out there's more that that's uncovered of what they really, truly want coaching on.   Michael Hingson ** 41:35 So as a as a coach, what is it you really do? I mean by that what really is the purpose of a coach when they're in when they're interacting with someone? So   Patti Oskvarek ** 41:48 a coach asks questions to help the person solve whatever they're wanting to solve, and by those questions, the person being coached has the answers and solutions, and they develop those solutions. As you ask those questions, it opens up things that they never thought about, and really comes to what is really going on and what they really want, and what they really want to achieve, and having an action plan to do it. If I just tell somebody, oh, this is the way you should do it, people aren't going to do it. They have to come up with that action plan within themselves to really invest in it and really want to do it, and that's where a coach comes in. Say, you have a struggle with an employee and you really don't know what to do, and just talking to somebody about it is so important because a lot of times, managers and supervisors and middle management don't have anybody to talk to. They're being squeezed from the top and the bottom right, and they feel like they have nobody to really share what's going on and at home, your your your spouse or your loved ones don't want to hear it, right? So a coach helps open up that communication and to come up with solutions to what that situation is, and to also be there to listen to listen to the person everybody wants to be heard. Lot   Michael Hingson ** 43:44 of truth to that. And one of the things that I read when I was studying up on on coaching and so on, was that very thing, you don't even necessarily have to have the answer, even though you think, Well, you may or may not even think you do, but you don't need to know the answer, at least initially, but it is all about asking questions and getting your client to explore Yes, and that is such a cool thing, and it is something that is as valuable in coaching as it is in teaching or Whatever you do, it's really important to get people to explore and figure things out for themselves. And you can guide but you can't give people the answers. It never works, right?   Patti Oskvarek ** 44:33 And when they come up with what they're going to do, or how they're going to approach the situation, or even practice how they're going to deliver it with your coach, it's much more successful because you really want to do it   Michael Hingson ** 44:51 well. Coaching has certainly gotten a lot more popular over the past, oh, 10 to 20 years. It certainly isn't something that we. Used to hear a lot about when you were back at Dairy Queen and all that coaching wasn't something that people talked about, much less work life balance. So we've, we've come a long way. I would think,   Patti Oskvarek ** 45:14 yes, we have. Like I said, when I first heard of coaching, I didn't know what it was.   Michael Hingson ** 45:22 It's a growing industry, and for people who do it and do it well, it's a it's a very successful industry, and I'm sure that you would say it's financially successful, but even more important, it's successful because you are rewarded when you see your clients succeed and become better than they were. Can you share any kind of stories of some of someone you coached and kind of where they started and where they ended up being a whole lot better than they were? You don't need to obviously mention names or anything, but just curious, if you have a story that comes to mind, yeah.   Patti Oskvarek ** 45:59 Okay, let me so there's a client that he wants work life balance, and he also wants to write a book. So we worked on incorporating action to be able to find the time to write the book, and to continue to write the book, and be motivated about writing the book because he has something important to share with the world, and to keep that up, and to not let go of that dream and to work through those fears of failing not to write the book or complete the book. So that's one way of incorporating work life balance into something that you want to achieve, and that's what I worked with him on. He's continually writing his book, and when he and I help motivate him and help him continue to know that that's something important for him that he wants to do and complete. So that's kind of a situation with the work life balance is okay? How am I going to write this book and get it completed by the time the deadline and all of those things? So it's incorporating action and actually following through with it and making sure that the book is being completed.   Michael Hingson ** 47:41 It's not the easiest thing in the world to write a book, but on the other hand, I think that most everyone has stories to tell. They may not know how to write a book, but they probably have the contents of a book inside of them somewhere.   Patti Oskvarek ** 47:59 I definitely agree, and it's it was working through some of the fears of what had happened in the past, of not being able to finish the book, so getting past those fears, and getting past everything, and being dedicated to time management and all the things of getting and writing that book.   Michael Hingson ** 48:23 So is he still working on it, or has he written his book? Yeah, he's   Patti Oskvarek ** 48:27 still working on it. It's a current client. But I wanted to kind of give an example of how you work, work, life balance into something else that you want to   Michael Hingson ** 48:36 achieve. How's the book coming along? Good. He's   Patti Oskvarek ** 48:40 really motivated, and he's spending time each day writing the book, so it's coming along.   Michael Hingson ** 48:48 That's exciting. Any idea when, or does he have a goal as to when he wants to have it completed?   Patti Oskvarek ** 48:55 He wants to have it completed by next year. Okay, so he's on the right track. It's writing all of his ideas and writing it, and then you got to go through the other stuff that's after it, as you know, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 49:13 have you written a book?   Patti Oskvarek ** 49:15 I have been in a collaboration of a book. I've wrote a chapter. I haven't wrote a full, long book, but I do write blogs. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 49:28 maybe that will happen someday, but the fact that you written a chapter and you're collaborating on a book certainly adds value and helps too. Yes, it does. So how does I think? Again, this is something we've kind of gone over a lot of this. But how does coaching overall help people in the workplace and in their in their individual lives? And when should people look for a coach?   Patti Oskvarek ** 49:55 Good question. So coaching is really. Good for individuals who want to achieve something but don't really know how to get there or need a little help getting there, and we're there to listen and ask questions and get you to where you want to be. Everybody can use a coach, even coaches need coaches, because they help you achieve things that you never thought were possible and dreams come true.   Michael Hingson ** 50:34 And I've actually talked to several coaches who have made that very same point, even coaches need coaches, and the value is, of course, both sides learn when that happens. Yes,   Patti Oskvarek ** 50:47 it, it's the most wonderful thing that's ever come into my life.   Michael Hingson ** 50:54 So do you have a coach? I do? I do in addition to your husband? Yes,   Patti Oskvarek ** 51:02 my children, well,   Michael Hingson ** 51:04 there's that too. Yeah, your cat, yeah, well, actually, your cat's your boss.   51:10 But yes,   Michael Hingson ** 51:13 well, so you so where are you located?   Patti Oskvarek ** 51:18 I'm in Arizona. You're   Michael Hingson ** 51:19 in Arizona. But you do? You coach all over the world, or mainly around Arizona or what?   Patti Oskvarek ** 51:26 Yeah, I coach virtually, so all over the world. I take clients from all over the world. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 51:34 pretty exciting, yes. Well, if people want to get a hold of you and want to explore working with you and having you help them or whatever. How do they do that? And where do they go?   Patti Oskvarek ** 51:47 They go to my website, which is coaching for inspiration with patti.com and Patti spell, P, A, T, T,   Michael Hingson ** 51:54 I say that one more time coaching,   Patti Oskvarek ** 51:57 coaching for inspiration with patty.com and Patti is spelled, P, A, T, T, I Okay.   Michael Hingson ** 52:08 And is there anything that they should specifically look for when they go there? Or how do they start?   Patti Oskvarek ** 52:14 Okay, so I have my about page, I have my coaching page, I have just my blog. Everything's on my website. So if you want to schedule coaching with me or Reiki with me, you just go to the coaching page or the Reiki page.   Michael Hingson ** 52:37 Now you do other things, like podcasts, don't you? Yes,   Patti Oskvarek ** 52:41 I have two podcasts. One is called building better relationships at home and at work with Angela and Patti. And Angela is my co host, Angela ambrosia and and then I have a five minute or so podcast, mini podcast called Exploring life and work with Patti. And I talk about managers and supervisors situations in their work life, in their home life, and it's called Exploring life and work with Patti, from chaos to calm.   Michael Hingson ** 53:19 And where can people find the podcasts   Patti Oskvarek ** 53:22 on Spotify, or any of the listening platforms? And I'm starting to put them on YouTube, on my YouTube channel. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 53:32 I started doing that with unstoppable mindset in 2022 and although still the majority of people listen to the podcast. There are people who like to watch the YouTube podcast as well. So we do that. Yes, we, we accommodate our sighted friends.   Patti Oskvarek ** 53:56 Yes, yeah, I'm I'm still in the beginning process of putting all my episodes for both onto my YouTube channel, but that's one of my goals, is to successfully do that as well. So I have a few on there, still working on it.   Michael Hingson ** 54:15 Well, I want to thank you for being here with us for this hour. This has been very enjoyable and a lot of fun, and I thought it would be, and I'm really glad that we had a chance to do it. And you know, if you ever want to come back, you're always welcome. If you have more things that you want to talk about, we'd love to have you come back and chat with us some more. I think it would be a lot of fun, but I really am grateful that you came, and I'm very grateful that all of you listen to us out there today. We really value your input, so please let us know what you thought of our podcast. I'm sure Patty would like to hear please go visit her at coaching for inspiration with patty.com but. I'd like to hear from you, and you can email me. It's easy. It's Michael H I M, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S i b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, which is w, w, w, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael Hinkson is spelled M, I C, H, I N, G, s, o, n, so Michael hinkson.com/podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Love your thoughts and please, wherever you're listening to us, give us a five star rating. We value that a lot. We hope that you'll like us well enough to do a five star rating. But we do want to hear your thoughts and Patty for you and for all of you listening, if any of you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on our podcast, on unstoppable mindset, we'd love to hear from you. Let us know. We're always looking for guests. We will respond, and we'll take your advice very seriously and probably draft your guests to or your ideas to come on as guests on the podcast. So once again, though, Patty, I want to thank you for being here. This has been incredibly enjoyable, and I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to do it. Thank you.   Patti Oskvarek ** 56:09 Thank you, Michael, for having   **Michael Hingson ** 56:16 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Abigail, (Abby), Stason is all that. Abby grew up in New Jersey and eventually served in a 20-year career with Wall Street firms including Meryl Lynch. She was a sales leader and worked to train and supervise brokers.   Eventually, she decided to leave the financial world and begin her own company, Abigail Stason LLC., to teach people about skill building and authenticity. Today she works with individuals, teams and companies to help them become more authentic and truer to what they do.   Abby and I get to have a good conversation all about authenticity and truth. We discuss the many complexities around truth and authentic behavior that we face today. At one point I ask Abby if she feels that our world regarding truth and being authentic is more complex today than in the past. Her answer is quite interesting. Listen and see what you think.   About the Guest:   Abigail “Abby” Stason (she/her/hers) is a master teacher and skill builder. A former Wall Street executive, in 2010, Abby left a 19-year career to become an entrepreneur. She is passionate about championing equality and human development. Abby uses neuroscience to convert abstract learning concepts into pragmatic practices that apply in our day-to-day world.   Abby equips human beings and leaders with behavioral skills for a modern world and global gig economy. Abby is the author of Evolution Revolution: Conscious Leadership In An Information Age, a handbook of human and leadership development skills that she converted to e-learning programs. Her mission is to be an exceptional partner to the human race and planet and to facilitate global consciousness.   Abby enjoys the outdoors in all forms: hiking, cycling, snowshoeing, and swimming. You will find her strolling through a farmers' market for fresh produce to experiment with new recipes or at a coffee shop enjoying a matcha latte. She also volunteers for her teacher's foundation, the Gangaji Foundation Prison Program.   Ways to connect with Abigail:   https://abigailstason.com https://consciousleadership.online/home https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailstason/   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, welcome once again to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And from my perspective, the unexpected part is what makes it the most fun. We get to do all sorts of unexpected things from time to time, and we'll see what happens with our guest this week, Abby Stason, who is a master teacher and is very much involved in dealing with the world of humanity and being very concerned about people, and I don't want to give any more away, because I think it'll be a whole lot more fun to hear it from her. So, Abby, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Abby Stason ** 01:57 Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, and you know, I just lit up. Also when you said unexpected, the unexpected happens when we're inclusive and we don't know what's going to happen, and that's where the interesting stuff happens. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 02:11 that's what makes it the most fun. I love telling a story about one person that was on our podcast a long time ago now, gosh, almost two years ago, he was a software engineer, and he lives in Southern California, in an area called Dana Point loves to swim in the ocean. And he, while we were talking, talked about the fact that he went in the ocean once in the winter, and he decided after that that he was going to swim every every chance he got in the ocean, whether it was winter or summer. And I asked him about being afraid in the in the winter, and he said, Well, it was a little bit daunting. The first time I went into the water, it was 55 degrees. And he said, I noticed that the closer I got to the water, the slower I moved, and I wasn't sure I wanted to do this. And then he finally just said, I'm going to bite the bullet and do it. And he jumped in. He said it was only a couple seconds. He was used to it, and he's been swimming in the water, even in the winter without a wetsuit, ever since, and he swum nose to nose with dolphins and other things like that. So he's had a lot of fun doing it, but then that led to a 10 minute discussion between us on the whole subject of fear, which is not anything that either of us anticipated talking about. So the unexpected is definitely a part of what we   Abby Stason ** 03:34 do. Yeah, and I applaud him. I would need a wetsuit to do that, yeah, to overcome my fear. I need a wet suit. And you know, I appreciate you always in the discussions we've had and how you hold it, this is an inclusion and diversity can be a heavy topic, but I appreciate how you hold it lightly. And you know, let's have some fun, because if we take it all too seriously, that's when we get a little bit in our own ways.   Michael Hingson ** 04:02 Well, yeah, I think the problem also is that people take it, I won't say way too seriously, but they take it in a way where it ends up really being much more divisive or non inclusive, or less diverse. I just had a conversation with someone who is a guest on our podcast, and we were talking about disabilities, and I said the biggest problem that I see is that people with disabilities are not really included in the conversation in so many different ways. We we we don't talk about disabilities, we don't talk about people with disabilities, and we're left out. And I've said, I said to him, one of the things that I've heard from a few people who have been on experts on diversity, is, but disability is it starts with this. It's not you're it is not the same. I. Yeah, and my point is, disability exactly is the same, because every single person on the planet has a disability, and reality is so disability starts with dis, so does disciple, so does discrete, so does discern, and yet we don't regard those in a negative context. So the reality is, we can re evaluate and change how we view some of the words that we use. And as I've indicated to people on this podcast as well, every person on the planet has a disability, and I can make that case very, very well. We won't spend a lot of time on that here, but I could make that case and point out that everyone has a disability of some sort.   Abby Stason ** 05:40 I would echo that. That, yeah, that's, that's well said, Actually, and I'm pretty appreciating what I'm learning already, of course. But yeah, you know, agreed. And can we just see each other as humans? Just we're all humans. Disability   Michael Hingson ** 05:56 really needs to be viewed as not some thing that a few people have that makes them less than us, but disability is a characteristic that manifests itself differently, but for everyone you know, and the argument that I make is most all of you are light dependent, and from my perspective, that makes you awfully disabled compared to me, because I don't have to worry about whether the lights are on and, and the reality is, though, that your disability is covered up by light bulbs and by so many other ways that light on demand is made available today and, and that's fine, but don't knock the rest of us just because We don't happen to have the problem that you do when you think that you're superior, because you can go turn a flashlight on, or start a flashlight on a phone if, if power goes out, that works only if you have the device. And so your devices cover up your disability, but doesn't change the fact that it's there. Yeah, and,   Abby Stason ** 07:00 and, you know, society tries to tell us what ability or disability is. What if we just flip those? Yeah, you know, what if we what if we just flip those? Because that's where we have to get past societal conditioning. Who, who decides who to say, who's disabled or not? I mean, yeah, we're all human beings, if we can look past the surface to see that we have, you know, we're all the same. And, yeah, to get past societal conditioning on who we say is better than less than or what the expectations are, you know, and how we set up our lives and systems around that. I think it's a it's a good inquiry and a good investigation, and something for us all to continue to talk about and to bring to light.   Michael Hingson ** 07:49 Yeah, I think it is something that's very important to do, and hopefully more of us will do it over time. Well,   Abby Stason ** 07:55 that's why you know what you're up to is so important, and you inviting me into this discussion and others into the discussion you're leading away with it. So I appreciate being here, and I'm proud to be sitting here next to you over technology. Well, thank   Michael Hingson ** 08:10 you. It's good to have this opportunity and get a chance to visit. Tell me a little bit about the early Abbey, growing up and all that stuff.   Abby Stason ** 08:18 Yeah, the early Abbey, the early Abbey. That'd   Michael Hingson ** 08:21 be a great TV that's a great title for a TV or radio show, the early Abbey. I was watching on I was watching on TV, looking at a guide, and there was a show, and my wife and I used to watch it, The New Adventures of Old Christine. So we can talk about the early Abbey.   Abby Stason ** 08:40 The early Abby, there's a bit of, you know, it's a bit of excitement, a bit of drama, a bit of sadness, but, you know, I was born and raised, am I going to go through my entire life to end here? Whatever   Michael Hingson ** 08:51 you'd like to Yeah, yeah,   Abby Stason ** 08:53 I was born and raised in New Jersey, and you know, where, very early age, where I knew that, you know, one thing that I always loved is the truth. I loved hearing the truth no matter what it is, whether it's, you know, I'll use these words, good, bad, or whatever. But I love the truth. And I noticed that people around me didn't love the truth. So I at, you know, at times I kind of, you know, I was active, I had a healthy life, and all that. But one thing that in throughout my lifetime, which I'm bringing this up, because it brings me to today, is that I was penalized for telling the truth. It wasn't popular for telling the truth, you know, and and I really struggled with that. I mean, I'm a privileged person, and I always, yeah, I always had an internal disconnect with that. But I love the truth no matter what it is. And I find myself today now just getting very excited about the truth, the truth in myself. You know, when I screw things up to the truth and what's happening anywhere to the truth around inclusion? And diversity? Yeah, so it was pretty, I pretty, pretty much compacted myself and didn't align with who I was, because it wasn't always comfortable to tell the truth. Because, you know, to, you know, I'm LGBTQ, I'm a woman's you know, if you're in a environment where being a female, you're suppressed, and you try to tell the truth about what you want, or if you try to tell the truth that you're in love with someone of the same sex, you know, that was penalized. So I really struggled as a youth trying to tell the truth. And so today we come full circle. I'm just, you know the truth is it for me, I'm, you know, I love the truth. So you know, admitting when I make mistakes, and telling the truth about that to the truth of what's happening in the world, or any of it, and not calling it, any of it, good, bad, right, wrong, you know. And I spent, you know, 20 years on Wall Street, and you can imagine truth telling, talk about truth Yeah, you know, or lack thereof, yeah, right. Truth telling in Wall Street was, was something of a, you know, yeah, kind of like avoiding the truth a little bit the corporate world can be, you know, lifted to an art form, you know what I mean. So that's why I always kind of grappled with that. And, you know, and that's one of the reasons I left was to, you know, really start telling the truth. And what it comes down to is being more conscious. In essence,   Michael Hingson ** 11:27 where in New Jersey are you from?   Abby Stason ** 11:29 I am from, you know, a very small town. Everyone says Now everyone I'm listening on this is probably she doesn't have an accent, although some people will pick up sliced trace, traces of so I can hear a little, yeah, I was just gonna say you're probably picking up on it. I'm from a very small town in Warren County New Jersey called Belvidere. Okay, right on the Delaware River, right? Yeah, okay. I lived   Michael Hingson ** 11:51 in, I lived in Westfield for six years. Oh, great, yeah.   Abby Stason ** 11:54 So Westfield, so, you know, you know, you know Belvedere, and you know some people, it's not like Newark for the viewers listening, and it's the farmland of New Jersey. And, you know, we used to go sleigh riding, and lakes would freeze over. We'd go ice skating and all that. We never locked the doors. Went to the shore every year.   Michael Hingson ** 12:15 What's, what's really funny about Westfield for me is that before we moved there, we had selected property and then chose to build a house, because my wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, and so we chose to build a house, because if you build a house, it really doesn't cost a lot more for access than it does just to build the house. If you buy a house and modify it, it costs a bunch of money. Yeah, the the only, the only extra expense we had was that it had to be a two story house, because that's what the development had. So we did spend 15,000 extra dollars in the construction of the house to put it in elevator. But beyond that, you know, it didn't cost more. But still, when we were once, we selected the property and we were back in California telling people where we were going to live and all that. I had never heard of Westfield before we went there. But I was amazed at the number of people who knew about Westfield New Jersey here in California.   Abby Stason ** 13:12 Well, so I so when it then fast forward. I was working in lower Manhattan, you know, after 911 which, you know, obviously, yeah, so I lived in Summit, New Jersey, Ah, okay, but yeah, so I lived in Summit, took the train to Hoboken and then took the ferry over to the ferry, yeah, her open edge center, yeah. What?   Michael Hingson ** 13:33 What did you do on Wall Street?   Abby Stason ** 13:37 I was in sales leadership, you know, basically in charge of brokers, if you will. You know, help, you know, supporting them, hiring, firing, you know, helping clients with issues, anything you can imagine. So   Michael Hingson ** 13:52 you must have had a lot of fun dealing with people and the truth from time to time.   Abby Stason ** 13:58 Well, you know, yeah, you know was, it was, so you everyone's gonna on the call, will probably stereotype me a little bit, and being on Wall Street, and that's quite all right, because it's, it's the stereotyping is a little bit. But, you know, it's an exciting industry, yeah, it's got a little bit of its warts on it. You know, one of the things that was really tough was being a woman. So I left Wall Street in 2010 so, you know, it was 19 years on Wall Street. It was pretty tough to be consistently the only woman in the room. So I really had to take care of myself. And, you know, meet kind of the challenges that came with that sometimes It'd be my meeting and I'd be asked to get coffee because I'm the female, or I'd be asked to take notes because I'm the female, you know. So that got a little bit tiring, but I never became a victim of that. Victim, any of us in an underrepresented group of any kind. It's easy to go to victim, but I chose not to do that.   Michael Hingson ** 14:58 That's really the issue. Is. And it's a matter of, are you going to be a victim or not? And that's of course, what happens so often, is that that we seem to learn to be a victim, rather than recognizing that we don't need to be. We discover, for all too often, that people just decide to be a victim and they don't need to be a victim.   Abby Stason ** 15:22 Yeah, you know, it's because you, because we, you, we are a little bit victims. But there's, there's an essence of going for victimhood, you know, unnecessarily. So it's, rather than whining about it, it's understanding that this is the reality that I live in. And so how can I meet this. How can I take care of myself? You know, how can I respond with ability versus reacting, you know? And, you know, bringing in other underrepresented groups, I mean, certainly you come across that same type of we just talked about disabled people and, you know, there's black people and, you know, underrepresented groups, it's easy to go to victim but I encourage people, and I never got victim me about it. It's just like this is a reality I live in. What can I do and how can I spark a greater discussion? Are people available for a different discussion around this? If not? Okay, but just keep going.   Michael Hingson ** 16:18 Well, it gets back to the whole thing we talked about earlier, about disabilities and so on, because so many people, like people who are blind, specifically people who become blind later in life, grow up sighted and in an environment that says you're not whole if you can't fully see. And all too often, they end up being victims or view themselves as victims and don't recognize that. Okay? So they're still traveling down the road of life, maybe in a different lane, but you're still going down the road of life, and you can learn to do and choose to do all the things that you could do before. It's very rare that there isn't something that a person who is blind can't do, that a person with eyesight can. Yeah, probably blind people aren't most likely going to be football players. However, being football strategists is another story, yes, and and so sometimes exactly what we do changes. But on the other hand, like I said, the whole issue of light dependence, I'll, I'll put my ability to understand a lot of my surroundings up against what most people can or or don't do in terms of understanding their surroundings, because people don't learn to really observe, whereas it's part of my way of life.   Abby Stason ** 17:47 Yes, and it's an opportunity to to ask, How can I cultivate resilience? You know, if I can use a such any situation to strengthen my resilience, then that's, you know, you know, talk about having fun, you know, it's, you know, I'm not making light of any situation. But if I can cultivate more resilience and learn, it's a you know, I matured really quickly. You know what I mean? You know, I grew up really quickly, which was delightful, right? It was delightful. And, you know, I want to say too, that working on Wall Street as a leader was extremely satisfying from the front. So people are people are people. So one of the things I love doing is human development, so I got to do that a lot on Wall Street. So I was really pleased with my ability to impact people's lives, even on Wall Street well.   Michael Hingson ** 18:40 And the reality is that the people on Wall Street, by and large, were very intelligent, very creative, very bright people, and had some real challenges and pressures to live up to in order to do the things that they do. So I can understand where the environment developed from, although, as you point out, the issue of getting people to grow and recognizing that a female can can do things as well is, is something that some people accept and some people don't. But that's not just Wall Street that, unfortunately, is a guy thing that has to change. Well,   Abby Stason ** 19:19 I think it's, it is, yeah, it's a guy thing, and it's, you know, we all can change to see, you know, we are just human beings. Because actually, gender and race are just social constructs. Actually, a lot of the social conditioning that comes with anything that we stereotype has a lot of baggage to it. Can have baggage, and we're not align with ourselves, and we're trying to fit into society's mold. And conditioning is useful, but if left uninvestigated, yeah, you know, it's, you know, it's not as much fun, no, right? Because, like, we can see this wants to change, but yet we keep doing the same thing, and that's just stuck, stuck. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 20:00 I was watching a commercial last night about, well, this woman comes on and she's talking about Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball, but he was not the first baseball player of color, if you will. And talked about the Negro League and that, there's a whole podcast about that now, which I haven't listened to yet, but I can relate to being different than most people. And also, I'm well aware of the Negro League, which it was called, and and appreciate it and look forward to learning more about it, because I believe talent is talent, wherever it comes from.   Abby Stason ** 20:39 Yeah. And this notion of, you know, can I be true to myself, no matter what? You know, can I be really true to myself, you know, with who I am, and can I be real no matter what? And in some places, to be real means I will scare the heck out of people, you know, again, for the biases, you know, if I show up as a strong female, that's the success, like ability bias is negative for women and positive for men. So then I start scaring people. So then I need to stay conscious to that, to see how I'm being received, and where's the conversation headed, and how can we connect beyond Yeah, how   Michael Hingson ** 21:18 do we help people grow?   Abby Stason ** 21:19 Yeah, that's right, it's an opposite opportunity that's really well said. It's an opportunity to stretch and grow.   Michael Hingson ** 21:24 So what did you do after you left Wall Street?   Abby Stason ** 21:27 Well, so I, you know, and going back to what I was saying, what I love doing was, you know, I got results because you want to, you know, you want to have positive results and disciplined business practices, takes care of the day to day. But what I really loved doing was leading and developing people, mentoring, coaching, developing human beings. You know, I have no problem developing someone younger than me, them going off to be a CEO and work for them. So I decided to follow that passion. I was in the Bay Area. Wanted to stay, so I leapt, you know, took the leap. I leapt off the cliff, then started my own practice of basically teach us more of a teacher than a coach. I basically teach people skills around everything we're talking about. You talked about fear earlier, etc, but that's really satisfying for me, because that's what I love to do. I consider myself a Constant Learner.   Michael Hingson ** 22:22 And where do you live today?   Abby Stason ** 22:24 Now, I live in Oregon. Okay, I'm in Southern Oregon, so that's   Michael Hingson ** 22:29 a little bit away from Wall Street. Yes, it's a long walk, but that's okay. So you and what does your business do today?   Abby Stason ** 22:46 Yeah, so basically, I teach people skills, you know, I do one on one sessions. I do team workshops. I do I help companies with their cultures and team workshops. I have an E learning platform. I have a whole curriculum that I teach people skills, specifically skills to navigate the human condition you were just talking about. And I read, or, excuse me, listen to that podcast about the gentleman at Dana. Point is really interesting. So like him, you know, overcoming his fear? Well, we have fear throughout the day, so fear is a big driver of our behavior. So that's something that I teach, is how to overcome fear. And you know, in short, I'm sharing my journey for my own development, my own human development. Here's what I've learned, here's the skill I've learned, and here's what worked for me. And also I clients kept asking me questions, how do I do this? How do I do that? So finally, one client said, you know, I want, I don't want another catch phrase. I want frameworks. I want skills. I'm like, You got it here. I am well.   Michael Hingson ** 23:46 And the fact is that if you really look at fear, most things that we fear or are afraid of never come to the light of day. They're not they're not real. We are. We're really good at creating fear out of nothing and and it really is nothing, and we we don't step back enough, or we don't learn, as I describe it, how not to be blinded by fear, especially when it's unexpected things that come up that can really be perilous. We really, those are the times that we really need to keep our wits about us. And the reality is, we can do that. Yeah,   Abby Stason ** 24:26 yes, and you're right. Wait the human. You know, humans are wacky, wackiest species on the planet. We are great, and we are the wackiest. I put myself at the top of the list. I mean, we will, you know, this is the mind body connection. We will actually create a fear response in our physiology based on some story we're telling ourselves. Yeah, we we know this scientifically. So it's like, why would we ever do this? Like, I'm looking at you. You're in your home. I'm looking at me. I'm in my home. You know, we're both. Safe. There's no reason for us to be fear. We're to be fearful. You know, we get along great. But you know what we do is we make up stories in our head, and then we go into a real fear response, and then our behavior comes from that. We know why that is. It's exciting. We live in exciting times because we know now I get very excited. As you can tell, is we know now, as opposed to even 1015, 20 years ago, how our brains and our biology impact our behavior like it's it's no more a mystery to us, and we're going to get just continue to get more and more informed about that, including why we exclude people, and why we treat people of different colors or disabled people differently? So I think we're in an exciting time   Michael Hingson ** 25:46 well, and the reality is that a lot of the well, most of the time that we treat people differently is because we don't understand, and to some degree, or for some people, to a large degree, we don't want to understand. We don't want to be as, as people would say, confronted with the facts. Don't confuse me with the facts. That's what I believe. Is what I want to believe. And and there are issues with that that really should allow us to move beyond it and recognize that we all have gifts. As I've said, the thing is, disability does not mean a lack of ability, and disability is truly a characteristic that we all have that manifests itself in different ways for different people.   Abby Stason ** 26:37 Absolutely, and you know when we you know, when you see someone who's disabled, someone who's different than you, we immediately go into us. Our brains go into us versus them, and then we also assign all of the behaviors of those biases that we've been taught, whether they are accurate or not. So I'd love the reframe you were talking about earlier, about, you know, disabled people, they really have abilities, but we have stereotypes about disabled people. We have stereotypes about women, we have stereotypes about men, we have stereotypes from about blacks, any, you know, any of it. And it's all just this old wiring, which is which I find exciting, because we can actually rewire that.   Michael Hingson ** 27:24 Yep, unfortunately, we grow up learning one way to wire, and it is something that we can change and we should change. Yes, it's also a growth issue, because for years, people thought what they did about disability or people who have disabilities. And the fact is that as we evolve, hopefully we recognize that our own views are not really necessarily totally accurate, and we should change them and be a lot more inclusive than we tend to be. Yes,   Abby Stason ** 28:00 and that takes this is where conscious, you know, being conscious and aware of my self as I see someone who's different than me, requires me almost to stop and pause for a split second to interrupt any kind of conditioning that comes In. So this is where we can make more space for humanity, and I'm not. It doesn't mean slowing down. It just means stopping and saying, Okay, I'm looking at this person. What are the stories I have running? What are the biases I have running? And can I let those go and make different associations, or be open to actually get to know this person before I make any judgments about them, yeah, you know. So that interrupts the brain wiring, you know. And I love our brains. If we didn't have conditioning, we wouldn't be able to live, you know, if we didn't have social conditioning, you know, social conditioning is useful. For instance, we have stop signs and street lights and other norms that really help us get through our day to day. We wear uniforms. You know, imagine walking into a hospital and seeing everyone dressed like ranchers. I don't know. You know people. You know cowboys. You mean they're not right. You'd walk into the hospital and need treatment and be like, wait a minute, I'm not in the right place. And you would go into a fear response. That's why we have uniforms and some other norms. But when those norms keep us from really connecting is when it's problematic, and we're seeing that   Michael Hingson ** 29:34 well, this, this concept that you talk about and that you address regularly, about being real. What? What got you started down that road and deciding that that was a really important thing to do?   Abby Stason ** 29:49 Yeah, so it great question, you know this word authentic? I don't think people know what it means to be real or to be authentic. And if. If it's sometimes dangerous to be real or authentic. In some communities, you know, I'm thinking some places where women, if you want to be real and take off, you know, don't, not cover your face, that can be dangerous. You know, that's the extreme horn of it. But really it's aligning your your inner experience with your outer expression. It's knowing what your values are and standing for them. It's allow. It's aligning with your commitments in the world and who you want to be you know. So I don't think people know what it means to be authentic. It means to be, you know, exposed for the truth of who you are, but that, you know, context matters also. It's not in a vacuum. But I think it's helpful to know, really, what it means to be authentic. It means that that I'm not hiding myself from you. You know that I'm transparent. I don't walk up to someone and just say, Here's my life story. But right? You know, I think when we're authentic, we're revealing what, what wants to be revealed. When it wants to be revealed, we're not wearing some persona, some mask, you know, we are aligned with who we are. We know what our values are and stand for that. It's, you know. It's about, you know, being congruent, you know, living and leading or whatever in alignment with what you profess to stand for. So if I stick, you know, yeah, go ahead, are   Michael Hingson ** 31:28 we taught not to be authentic?   Abby Stason ** 31:32 Well, I, you know, I'll say the answer to that, I think, is yes. I mean, are we taught not to be authentic? I think we're taught. We're not taught anything. We kind of grow up and we inherit. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing. We grow up and inherent crafts and values from our parents. And don't ever when we start to get to adulthood, really ask, Well, who am I? Am I? Are these just values of my parents? And, yeah, there's social pressures to act certain ways, so we adopt those, rather than saying, you know, do I want to adopt these? Am I working in the right place? You know, so are we? We're not taught, really. We're taught to go along, to get along. That's a lot of what we're taught to go along, to get along, at the expense of ourselves. And I'm not saying we should fight against everything, but I think there's an opportunity for us to, you know, be in the truth of who we are and align with our own values and what's true for us. And also, you know, the brain is wired to go along, to get along and lessen so that so it can be very fearful to go against what a group is saying. So that can be challenging for people, even though it might be healthier for whatever's happening.   Michael Hingson ** 32:57 But you know, the reason I asked about being taught it may or may not be volitional, but when I look at well, very frankly, look at politicians and how often they will deny something, they can be caught doing something or having done something, and sometimes that goes to extremes. Nowadays, you could do something 30 years ago and still be chastised for it and drummed out of the core, if you will. But the bottom line is that all too often, politicians will just deny with the hope that, well, if I push back hard enough, then people will believe it didn't really happen. And the result is that, in fact, they did something, and that teaching, or that activity, teaches so many others, especially kids growing up. Well, if they get away with it, why can't I? Yes,   Abby Stason ** 33:51 exactly. That's really well said. You know, politics is a great example of where you rarely hear the truth, you know, and also we're as humans. We're really not wired to speak fact to fact. I mean, we don't. We don't really speak fact to fact. In other words, we don't get on this zoom call and say you have headphones on. I don't, you know we don't. We just don't talk that way, like you have a gold shirt on I have a blue shirt on. That's not how we communicate as humans. The brain is wired to contextualize everything. That's okay, but then understanding that what comes out of my mouth is my opinion. It can be a judgment and intuition, and that's okay too, but we treat some of these things that we see on the news as facts when it's an opinion. So then you can take the opinion in and either agree or disagree with it, but we say that that's the truth well,   Michael Hingson ** 34:57 and sometimes you. We hear something say on TV that is an opinion, or it's not even a good opinion, because it clearly goes counter to reality and to facts, and yet people still say it, and if they don't get caught somehow, then it stands, and a lot of people call it gospel, and that's unfortunate, because what they're really counting on is that most of us don't ever go into an analytical mode where we really look at things and say, is that opinion? Is that true? I should really look into that for myself, right?   Abby Stason ** 35:42 And this is herein lies the suffering and the challenge of being a human being where, you know, to take responsibility for, am I treating that as truth? Am I investigating? Am I doing my own, you know, due diligence? No, I'm not saying we should go and all become scientists or anything like that, but certainly, you can tell an opinion when you hear it. But a lot of people, this is about being unconscious. You know, it's just, I'm not making anything good, bad, right, wrong, but there's consequences to not challenging anyone, and particularly our politicians and leaders, elected officials and anyone, and challenging each other to lift humanity into again, the truth and the facts of the matters and and also inviting people to say, hey, you know, that's not exactly true, but you know. Let's take a look at that. You know. But we consider things as truth, and then we take that and we then what, you know, and you're alluding to that, is that then we we take action based on something we think is true. Or   Michael Hingson ** 36:49 sometimes people will say, Well, you said that, but that's not what I have experienced or what I've observed, but that's but that's fair. It's fair to then have the discussion. Yes, and it may very well be that both sets of experiences are absolutely valid. And if you will, true, although it is so tempting to say you can't handle the truth, but we won't go there. That's that's a different movie.   Abby Stason ** 37:18 That was a good impression.   Michael Hingson ** 37:19 I actually was somewhere I cannot remember when it's been several years. I love, I love movies and lines, and I was talking with someone, and they said, Look, all I want from you is the truth. And I couldn't resist so I said that you can't handle the truth. And it really, it really busted up the whole atmosphere, and people were able to talk a whole lot more more seriously after that. Of course, there was another time I was somewhere and somebody said, Surely that's not the case. I said, Well, yes, it is. And don't call me Shirley, but, as I said, movies, but you know, from   Abby Stason ** 37:59 airplane, that's from airplane I'm tracking. I'm totally tracking.   Michael Hingson ** 38:05 Yeah, what can I say? I love to personally inject humor where I can, and I think that we take things so seriously sometimes. But the reality is, truth is important, and authenticity is important. And I guess I'd ask you, why is that's the case? Why is why should we really be authentic? Well,   Abby Stason ** 38:28 first of all, it's more satisfying on an individual level. So that when I'm aligned with who I am and I'm telling my truth, that is my experience and what's true for me, it's much more satisfying. Here's the other thing, you know, it avoids a lot of drama. You know, it opens up connection. It avoids drama. It takes away the blaming shaming. If we really make truth the primary goal, you know, then actually we have in the time we spend in drama and arguing, we have more time and space to enjoy ourselves. But it's, it's when we, when we don't tell the truth, our self esteem takes a hit. So right, when I'm not telling the truth and align with who I am and I'm not authentic with myself, you know, standing for what I you know, behaving a way that about what I profess to stand for, my self esteem takes a hit. Now, if my self esteem takes a hit, and we're all doing that, our collective self esteem takes a hit.   Michael Hingson ** 39:32 I also would submit that not telling the truth or not being truthful is stressful and it's a lot harder to do. Some people learn to do it very well, unfortunately. But it doesn't change the fact that in general, it's a lot harder to do, because you always have to worry about, am I going to be caught?   Abby Stason ** 39:55 Yep, spot on, and then I'm then, then it's like, okay. I lied, so then I have to cover up the lie, and then I Okay, so then I have to build on the lie. It's, it's a lot of unnecessary suffering, yeah. And the truth can be really inconvenient, you know, that's the other thing. The truth can be absolutely inconvenient. Oh, sure, you know. So. And then that might mean I have to rearrange some things in my life if I tell the truth, or, you know, if I, you know, this is the thing too. So here's the other thing is, society doesn't isn't compassionate. When we make we're all human beings, and we make mistakes, right? We do harm others and we make mistakes, but society is not forgiving or compassionate or doesn't make it cool to like, raise your hand and say, I really screwed this up. Here's what I did. I take responsibility. I want to clean this up, you know, and here's what I've learned. But instead, we blame and shame, and particularly in an era of social media and everything now visible, we just blame and slam anyway, you know, the cancel culture, so we don't make it easy to tell the truth about screwing up and then recovering from that, because I think there's a lot to learn when you know, even these politicians that make mistakes, or any of these high profile people, everybody makes mistakes, but we slam them and just try to blame and shame them and just annihilate them, instead of saying, Well, what, what happened? What was your experience when you were doing that? Or what? What have you learned? You know, where do you think that comes from? It Right? What's coming to mind? I'm going to say it just because it's here. Is the when Will Smith slapped rocket Oscars. And I'm thinking, what an opportunity to sit there and say, Okay, what happened? What did you learn? Instead, it just blew up into a ton of drama, yeah, you know. So we miss out on opportunities to grow our humanity by if anyone wants to tell the truth, it's it's hard because you'll get slammed, you know, literally, you can be canceled. You can lose your job, you know, all that. And sometimes that's appropriate. I mean, there should be consequences. I'm not saying, you know, when you tell the truth, some people, I might have to go to jail, and that's part of their taking responsibility. But overall, what we're talking about is the day to day things that happen that we could really benefit more from learning rather than blaming and shaming. In my opinion,   Michael Hingson ** 42:38 do you think, Well, what do you think society really says or believes about being real?   Abby Stason ** 42:45 Oh, gosh, yes, societies, you know, it's my experience. He says, Be Real, as long as it's what we say you real is go along to get along, you know, if so, you know, you know, look, there's, I'm LGBTQ, I'm happy to be bisexual. There's 300 plus lawsuit law, pieces of legislation against gay people. There's X number against transgender people. Now that's now you're saying that now the society, the government is saying to me, you can't, you shouldn't do that. So we're going to write laws against you. So this is where it gets tough. You know, I want to be real, but this is where intelligence comes in, context comes in. And I also say self care. Yeah, self care. I I'm teaching, especially now the I'm teaching women and underrepresented anyone in an underrepresented group, you know, self care has got to be non negotiable, because you're it's swimming upstream, and I'm not, yeah again and not victimy. But let's get in the reality of that you have to take really good care of yourself.   Michael Hingson ** 43:55 You have to be the first to take responsibility for doing that, because no one else is going to well said   Abby Stason ** 44:00 you should repeat that, and that should podcast if you're listening to this, that's the that's the main message from this repeat, that you   Michael Hingson ** 44:09 have to be the one to do it, because no one else is going to you have to take care of yourself. And that's that's absolutely fair to do. And I would go beyond it to say you need to really learn for you what self care is about. You know, for a person who is blind, let's say who has become blind, who grow, who has grown up with an attitude that blindness is less than being able to see, now you're suddenly confronted with it. What does that mean? Self Care wise, as opposed to say someone who is LGBTQ in terms of their sexual orientation. But the reality is that both do have things that they can do to care for themselves, mentally and physically in order to be able to continue to function. And first. I recognize that they are just as much a part of humanity as anyone else's.   Abby Stason ** 45:05 Yes, I just was quiet because that was well said, Very well said. So I hope everyone listening in, you just go back repeat what he just said and just repeat it, because you'll listen to it over and over. That's, that's the core message of this podcast, right? And I'll add, you know, I'm looking at you. I can see you have gray hair. I'm turning 58 in a few days, you know. So now ageism starts to come in, right? You know, I'm 58 so if I act, society says I should act like a 58 year old. So I have big energy, as you can probably hear in my voice, I'm pretty active and, you know, I'm not really intimidated by getting older, you know, I'm certainly don't act as energetic and athletic as a 25 year old. But society says I should act a certain way in my age, you know. So the, you know, going full circle to your society question, yeah. I think it's a time to examine our societal conditioning and ask what's outdated?   Michael Hingson ** 46:07 Yeah, and the reality is that things become outdated because we learn which we should do, and we recognize that some of our basic core beliefs that we were taught aren't necessarily, really so yes, totally agree, yeah, and it is. It is still something that we do need to and should learn to deal with. It's fair. Again, I talk a lot about blindness, of course, but that's what I tend to know a little bit about anyway. But I know that that the views that people still all too often have are very outmoded. I still hear of people who are losing their Well, let me do it this way. I hear about people who go to ophthalmologists because they don't see as well as they used to, and the doctor says, well, you're going blind. There's nothing I can do. And the doctor just walks out of the room. Or the doctor says, you know, go live in a home because you can't do anything anymore. You're, you're going to be blind. And that's not real. Yeah,   Abby Stason ** 47:16 wow. That's, that's, yeah, that's right there. That's a, oh, that's really, well, I feel offended Just hearing that, you know, I feel offended just hearing that's not inspirational, it's not looking at possibilities, it's not helping anyone. It's and it's not true. Yeah, that's right, because there we can all do things   Michael Hingson ** 47:38 well, the reality is that that we have, having been in the World Trade Center and escaping on September 11. The reality is that proves that anyone can be in an unexpected situation, and it's a question of how we choose to deal with it. Of course, a lot of people tell me, Well, you must have been so afraid or, of course, you didn't know what happened because you couldn't see it. Well, excuse me. You know they couldn't they couldn't see it. One is really easy. I was on the 78th floor on the south side of the building, and the airplane hit on the area between floors 93 and 99 on the north side of the building, basically 18 floors of concrete, steel and everything else between me and where the plane hit, what was there to see. Nobody could see it, and nobody and when we were going down the stairs, none of us knew what had happened. I never really learned what happened until both towers had collapsed, and I called my wife, and she is the first one who told us how two aircraft had been crashed into the towers. Now we knew that something was going on, because one of my colleagues saw fire before we evacuated, so we knew that something happened. And then as we were going down the stairs, we smelled fumes from burning jet fuel, but we had no idea what really had occurred. There was no way to know, but I was the one. But I was the one who observed to people around me, I smelled in the fumes from burning jet fuel. And other people said, Yeah, we were trying to figure out what that is. That's what it is. You're right,   Abby Stason ** 49:12 yeah, you know. And you're hearing, I'm imagining is, is very strong, right? The brain will make up for loss. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 49:22 only if I use it, only if I and that's, it's, that's a good question. But the reality is, only if I learn to use it. Your hearing doesn't become better simply because you lose your eyesight. It's like, you take a person from SEAL Team Six, and you, you take someone from some other profession that doesn't require as much eyesight, they're not going to see the same one will see better than the other because they've learned to use their eyesight. And it's the same thing with hearing.   Abby Stason ** 49:57 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's remarkable. I mean, yeah, I'm just, I notice I'm thinking of you and the towers, and what an experience. And it's a privilege to sit across from you right now and just, you know, yeah, it's amazing that you were there and lived through that. And I have a special, just a special type of feeling for the people of New York. And, you know, I worked in lower Manhattan after it was 2004 to 2006 and that's one of the reasons I went to work in Manhattan. Lower Manhattan is to, I don't know, I felt drawn to go there and just be a part of that. And it was a privilege to work there for two years   Michael Hingson ** 50:41 after, after all that had happened, where were you before then,   Abby Stason ** 50:46 I was in Atlanta, Georgia, okay, yeah, I was in the southeast. And, yeah, I was offered a job, and in same company, Merrill Lynch and I was offered a job in lower Manhattan. I just felt like, you know, I felt called to go and do that. And mostly because of 911 it was like a privilege to work with people who had lived through it, and, you know, like it's a privilege to sit across from you. It's, of course, one of the most recognizable, impactful events in the USF, yeah, you know, I mean, I'm putting that lightly. I'm not even giving it justice,   Michael Hingson ** 51:22 but it is one of the things that that we learn to deal with, and that's okay, but, but the reality is that I think even with that September 11 is, for a lot of people, just history. I mean, you've got a whole generation who never experienced anything relating to it and just reading about it. It's like Pearl Harbor for a lot of us, is just history, unless we take the time to really step back and and think about it and internalize it. Now I love to collect old radio shows as a hobby. So I've heard many radio broadcasts, not only about Pearl Harbor and that day, but other things relating to world war two and so on that make it very real. And have learned to use my imagination, and I hope people will do that regarding September 11 as well, because even though maybe you weren't born yet, or for those of us who were born who were able to remember it, but only saw it as whatever the size of our TV screen or our newspapers were, it's important to internalize that and think about it and decide, what does that really teach us about history? And I don't think it does teach us that Muslims are evil or anything like that. I think it teaches us that there are thugs in the world who want to force us to try to bend to their will. But the reality is that we're stronger if we work together, because after September 11, just the way this country behaved for a while. Then unfortunately, we started to see things like MCI WorldCom and Enron and other things like that, and politicians who really lost all the momentum that we had gained after September 11.   Abby Stason ** 53:18 Yeah, and I'm really appreciating, you know, really you said it really well too. Kind of a summation is we don't internalize our experience, so we skate over our direct experience, whether the experience be astronomically stressful and traumatic, like 911 but you still don't want to skip over your direct experience. You know, we don't internalize our experience. We we interact superficially, and we just say, Oh, that was okay. This was great. That wasn't. This was awful. Rather than really getting into our direct experience, that's where we can build resilience, that's where insight and wisdom comes along. Like you just said, yeah, really well. Said, appreciate the wisdom I'm getting today. I always learn something. I'm like, I wonder what I learned today. Well, here we are. I   Michael Hingson ** 54:15 hear you me too. I figure if I'm not learning at least as much as anybody else, then I'm not doing my job very well, because I I love doing this podcast, because everyone who comes on teaches me a lot, which I value a great deal, and then putting it all together is a lot of fun. So, you know, tell me, tell me a little bit more about what it is you do today, and what's your company and so on.   Abby Stason ** 54:44 Yeah. So my company name is my name, Abigail station LLC, really the nice, creative name, yeah, I know. Well, you know, it's just was easy, easy, and got recommended to me. But, you know, in a nutshell. Yeah, everything we're talking about is coming full circle because people want to show up. People want to be real, they want to be authentic. They want to be pleased with how they show up. They want to know what their values are. So it's it's like navigating the human condition in our modern world, in a global gig economy, requires skill, right? If I have an experience, what does this mean for me? How am I treating people that requires skill? So I basically teach skills on how to navigate the human condition, particularly while relating to others. It's one thing to be skillful when I'm by myself, but you know what it's like when we get we start working as a team and launching a product. You're shaking your head, right? We   Michael Hingson ** 55:44 impress ourselves very easily, don't we?   Abby Stason ** 55:48 That's where so we, you know, and it's important today, as opposed to years ago, when we worked on assembly lines. You know, we're well past that. Yeah, we're working on an assembly line. You didn't, you know, you basically said hi to your neighbor, you didn't have to share ideas and wisdom. You didn't have to collaborate with them. So now, everything in the workforce today in a gig economy, a global gig economy, across cultures, right across languages. So what's required of us is to be skillful human beings. So that's I have a curriculum that centers around that. So I do that in a one on one forum, Team workshops, open workshops, retreats, you name it. Anyone who wants to learn how to be, how to behave, more consciously. And I'm not making it good or bad, right or wrong, right?   Michael Hingson ** 56:34 How do you do that? How do you teach skills?   Abby Stason ** 56:38 Oh, like, literally, you know, so I'll, you know, I have framer. I talked about frameworks. So I have a skill like presence. I teach a framework on what it means to be present. Emotional Intelligence is a skill. And I, you know, it even like I'm laughing, because emotional intelligence is necessary. It's non negotiable for resilience. We know this scientifically. If you're not emotionally fluent, you're you will hurt your immune system. But people don't know actually how to feel their emotions. So I teach people that to notice the sensations in their body, to then capture the wisdom from that. How to Speak the truth, right? We've talked about that, how to listen, how to cultivate self esteem. So I have processes, many processes, if you will, for each skill, it's just like, Look, let me simplify it for you. You know, everybody's got a hobbit hobby of some sort, a hobbit, a hobbit, a hobbit. Covid might have a hobbit. I have five out here in my closet so, but everybody has a hobby of some sort. Well, let's say so I was a run. I used to run. I didn't go out and run a marathon in the first minute. What did I do? I learned how to train, right? So it's just like that, except we don't do strength training for our behaviors. Yeah, so it's, it's repetition, it's, it's a workout, if you will.   Michael Hingson ** 58:10 What kind of suggestions do you have for people who want to, want to get real, who don't necessarily know how to get real, especially people from underrepresented groups.   Abby Stason ** 58:25 Yeah, so, so for that, I mean, you know, I have you look me up at Abigail season.com, and I'm, I, you know, I'm happy to help anyone. But with underrepresented groups, it's particularly more important so that the skills there are, knowing when I'm present, knowing when I'm emotionally intelligent, because you're gonna have you're gonna be especially if you're an underrepresented group because of what we talked about, you'll be criticized for being real. So you have to understand your emotions. You have to know what your values are. You have to know what you stand for. And I will add self care because of what we talked about, because as an underrepresented group, we're swimming upstream, so you have to really understand how to take care of yourself, because we need to be strong as underrepresented groups. And I'll go back to my days on Wall Street. I was, you know, a lot of swimming upstream, you know. So I was okay. How am I doing this week? Am I taking care of myself? Each of those is a skill.   Michael Hingson ** 59:27 How do people do all of that? So, you know, when, when you talk about these are the things that then one needs to do. How do they do that?   Abby Stason ** 59:37 How do they do that, like, so, actually, you know.   Michael Hingson ** 59:42 So how do they learn about self care, for example, and so on. How do they learn about being more competent about themselves? Yeah,   Abby Stason ** 59:51 okay, so, so, you know, you can get, get support. You can, you know, one, I'll say you can buy my book. I mean. Abigail station.com, my book is called evolution, revolution, conscious leadership for an information age. So I have the skills in them that actually teach you how to be you know again, how to learn what your values are, how to thrive. You have five buckets of thriving, spiritually, mental, physical, emotional and financial. And I have a worksheet so you can actually fill out the worksheet to see where you're thriving or not, and what bucket you need to you know correct for, where are you doing in each bucket. So it's, it's again, it's it sounds, it's not abstract. It's just like if you're learning how to play tennis, you pick up a ball, you pick up a rack, and you start hitting it right? Well, just like this, you pick up a worksheet, you fill it out, and you examine what's true for you, and then you put it into practice.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:01 And important to do. And in our cover notes, we have a picture of the book cover and so on. So I do urge people to to look at that and and get your book to really understand a lot of the insights. And I think that that's the issue, is that the ultimate answer I would think to them to my question about how do people do it is you ask questions, you go to people like Abby, who have the information, and listen to them. You figure out what will work for you, but really take the time to figure it out, and then you can put it into practice.   Abby Stason ** 1:01:40 It's a matter of stopping to investigate what's going on with me. How am I doing and where do I need support, and all that and all that. It's just, it's skill we it's my experience, and what I teach is we can be more skillful human beings. It's a complex world now,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:02 do you think it's more complex than it used to be?   Abby Stason ** 1:02:06 I think we make it complex. Okay, that you know, that's what I happen to. Think it's my experience too. And this is what notice, how I'm notice what I'm saying. It's like, it's my experience. Here's what I think, you know, my it's my opinion and my experience. Notice how I'm saying the truth is XYZ. Notice how I'm saying that, right, right? It's my experience. It's my opinion that we make it complex, but yet, the skills that I teach, they're simply said, but they're not easy, right? It's a challenge of a lifetime.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:42 Well, I think there's a lot to be said for all that, that that we make it a complex world. Is it really more complex than it used to be? Maybe not we. We tend to want to think that it is. But is it really of has the real dynamic, have the real basic concepts changed or not, and that's really the issue, and that's why I agree with you that we tend to want to make it more complex. Oh yeah, there is a lot going on, things like social media and other things bring us closer together and so on. And so there's a lot of stuff going on, but we're the ones that have control over that, right?   Abby Stason ** 1:03:27 Well, Said, because we can go back to take a responsibility for our part, right? How am I showing up on social media, etc?   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:34 Well, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Yeah, they can go   Abby Stason ** 1:03:39 to Abigail stason.com,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:41 would you spell that, please? Yeah,   Abby Stason ** 1:03:43 I should just going to say it's A B, I G, A, I L, S T, A, S O N.com, you can email me at Abby, a, b, b, y, at Abigail, stason.com, and I you know if you're interested, if they're if you anyone's interested is listening. In a good place to go is go to my website, Abigail station.com, go to my blogs. It's a good way to pick up a lot of these information. I don't I don't send out it. I don't flood you with emails. Come to my blogs. That's a good place to get some exposure to some of this. Pick up my book, evolution revolution and conscious leadership for an information age. And I have an online course too, a self study course that you can sign up for. It's only $250 that walks you through each chapter. I made it priced at a price point to get the skills in as many hands as possible. Cool,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:38 well, I hope people will do that, I think there's never anything wrong with doing good skill building and growing and stretching. One of the things that I've talked about a lot on this podcast, that I've learned to do over the years, is to spend a little bit of time each day thinking about what happened today. How did it go? Why did. That not work. Why did that work? And even when it worked, could I have done it better? And what can I learn from everything that I do? I just think introspection is a beautiful thing.   Abby Stason ** 1:05:09 Yes, and I want to stress what you said at the end, and what have I learned about myself? That's a great summary. You know your process right there. Listeners follow that process. Absolutely,   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:22 I've learned I used to talk all the time about listening to my speeches because I was I travel and speak. I like to record them, and I've always said I'm my own worst critic. So I listened to speeches because I'm my own worst critic. And I'm going to learn from that. What I realized is how negative is that? And I've learned that what I really should say is I'm my own best teacher, and I will learn from it. And I just think that's I think we need to look at the world in a more positive way, and even the things that aren't necessarily working right, we can be more positive about what we do.   Abby Stason ** 1:05:56 Yes, and notice the reframe of that. Instead of putting yourself on trial. It's simply what, what did I learn, and how can I grow? That's it, and that's   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:06 the way it ought to be, yes, yes, and, and look, you know, it's   Abby Stason ** 1:06:09 way more fun, righ

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Please visit breakerwhiskey.com for more information or to send a message to Whiskey's radio. Breaker Whiskey is an Atypical Artists production created by Lauren Shippen. If you'd like to support the show, please visit patreon.com/breakerwhiskey. As a patron, you will also receive each week's episodes as one longer episode every Monday. ------ [TRANSCRIPT] [click, static] I—I'm not sure what to do with that. “You seemed lonely”.  You always do this, say just the right thing to keep me wanting to talk to you— [click, static] I know I seemed lonely. I was fucking lonely. I am fucking lonely. But if you're observers of all of this shit—and there's no way that we're the only ones, I know that—then you have to be observing a lot of really lonely people. Why me? Why choose to talk to me? Why…(sigh) [click, static] [a beep] Am I going crazy or did you just— [click, static] [four dots, two dots] Say again.  [four dots, two dots] “Hi”. You're saying fucking…hi.  Well. Hi.  [four dots, two dots] Is this Birdie? [one dot] I guess you remember. I— I want to be happy to hear from you, to talk to you, I do, but I… Okay, same as last time—one dit for yes, two for no, three dits if the answer is too complicated to explain and one dash for “I don't know”—and I better not hear those last two very much. Alright? [click, static; one dot] Right then. [click, static] Did Junior kill Don? [one dot] Did he— did he mean to? [one dash] It was a struggle, wasn't it? They got into some kind of altercation and… [one dot] Right. (deep breath) Right.  [click, static] Okay, uh, what else ask you…if you've been listening, am I right? Am I right in thinking that when I killed Billings, I branched us off into another future, and dragged Harry and Junior and Leann and— and Don and who the hell knows who else? Am I right about that? [one dot] Okay. I mean, not that I totally believe but…okay.  You and Fox—you're observers. Do you control the timelines? [two dots] Who does? [one dash] You don't know? You don't know who your own boss is? [two dots] Fuck.  Is it God? [two dots; one dash] No, you don't know. Okay. Helpful.  Do you know Fox? Personally? [one dot] Are you friends? [two dots] Are you enemies? [one dot; two dots] A yes and a no. I'm guessing that means it's a little more complicated than just friends and enemies.  [one dot] Yeah, okay. You both work for the same…entity though? You're both bookkeepers for the universe or whatever you want to call it? [one dot] Are there others? [one dot] Where are they? [click, static] Okay, yeah, I guess that's hard to answer yes or no. Are they observing different timelines? [one dot] How many timelines are there? [one dot] (scoff) Yes, there are many? What, is the number infinite? [one dot] Oh. How many are you looking over? Dozens? [two dots] Hundreds? [one dot] Shit, okay. And it's the same for Fox? [one dot] And you don't like each other…when you said you betrayed your job, did you betray Fox? [two dots] No. Did you betray your boss? Another…coworker? [two dots] Also no.  Did you betray…the people you're observing? [one dot] Because what—because you observed wrong? [click, static] Did you interfere? Did you try to fix it? [one dot] Yes. And it went wrong. People got hurt.  [one dot] Yeah, well, that's the way it fucking goes, isn't it?   Is that why you don't like Fox? Because they're trying to…I don't know, are they trying to fix it in their own fucked up way? [one dot] They're the one who turned me onto the Asimov book…that's what they want, isn't it? They want one perfect exact timeline? [one dot] And they're going around to a bunch of different timelines, trying to correct it? [one dot] Jesus. Do I—do I have to die for that to happen? Do we all have to die? [two dots] Thank god. Does Junior have to die? [click, static] Birdie? [bad interference] Birdie? [click, static] Birdie are you there? [click, static] Shit. [click, static]

Kev and Kelly do a second harvest of Graveyard Keeper Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:17: What Have We Been Up To 00:06:11: News 00:34:56: Graveyard Keeper 01:14:29: Outro Links Coral Island 1.0 Moonlight in Garland Early Access Sun Haven 1.3 Update Fabledom Fairytales & Community Update Moonstone Island Eerie Items DLC Lonesome Village Physical Edition Garden Story Translation Update Fantastic Haven Graveyard Keeper Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:32) Kevin: this is kelly ween this is kelly ween kelly ween kelly ween and in this show uh we talk about games that are filled with cottage gore yeah hi everyone welcome to the harvest season um with me today is kelly i’m kevin she’s actually gonna be here for well spoilers but then she’s gonna be on next week too she were on last week I bring it up because last year you were on for Halloween we did Cult of the Land. (0:00:47) Kelly: Hey. (0:00:57) Kelly: Oh, I forgot about that. (0:01:02) Kevin: And so, yeah, so, well, that’s exactly right. (0:01:03) Kelly: Is this just like my thing? (0:01:07) Kevin: Um, yeah, you’re Kelly our pumpkin queen. (0:01:10) Kevin: So here we are. (0:01:11) Kevin: Um, she’s all about this stuff. (0:01:14) Kevin: And so we are here today to talk about graveyard keeper, another, um, cottage gore game, um, technically this is a second harvest episode. (0:01:25) Kevin: Uh, Raschelle covered it way back. (0:01:28) Kevin: Like the first Halloween episode. (0:01:32) Kevin: And so I knew about it for years, but I didn’t get a chance to play it until recently. (0:01:37) Kevin: Um, and Kelly has played it significantly. (0:01:40) Kevin: Um, yeah. (0:01:40) Kelly: I only got out of it though last year. I was very new to it, so… (0:01:44) Kevin: Well, still more than I have. (0:01:49) Kevin: I’ve only played, uh, just a handful, relatively speaking. (0:01:51) Kevin: Um, but yeah, that’s, uh, we will get to that soon enough. (0:01:58) Kevin: Um, but before that, as always. (0:02:02) Kevin: Show notes and links and the transcripts are all available on the website for people to see and look at and on. (0:02:09) Kevin: Ooh, and whatnot. (0:02:11) Kevin: Um, and, uh, before the graveyard keeper will do news as always. (0:02:17) Kevin: And more importantly, what have you been up to Kelly? (0:02:19) Kevin: What have you been playing, watching, doing, yada, yada. (0:02:21) Kelly: Um, playing? I’ve really been slacking. I’ve been playing solitaire in Pokemon Go, which is not… It is, but I just… I get stuck playing it, and like, it’s fun, but I’m also like, I could be playing something better. (0:02:37) Kevin: Yeah, I mean it’s like comfort food sometimes it just it’s simple and I get it Exactly sometimes you just need a mindless game Okay, okay madman okay, I have not watched it. I’m familiar with it. That’s the one with That’s the one like 50s (0:02:37) Kelly: Um… [laughs] (0:02:39) Kelly: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s like, thoughtless. Um… (0:02:50) Kelly: But I just… (0:02:51) Kelly: I rewatched Mad Men, so that I think is more exciting. (0:03:05) Kelly: yeah like 60s advertising, yeah. (0:03:05) Kevin: add agency right (0:03:07) Kevin: 60s okay all right how how mm-hmm how long is it like the whole thing oh wow that’s longer than expected well that’s cool yeah sure (0:03:07) Kelly: uh I was a big fan when it came out. (0:03:12) Kelly: uh it’s like seven seasons I think? yeah seven seasons. (0:03:18) Kelly: yeah when I first ran I jumped ship like I think after season five. (0:03:25) Kelly: uh I mean it’s not the worst last two seasons but they’re not as good. (0:03:32) Kelly: Good. (0:03:34) Kevin: Um, let’s see, uh, well, I’ve last week we covered paleo pines actually kept up with it a good bit after There was a patch that dropped It’s been a big dinosaur for a week for me. I watched Jurassic Park this week again - (0:03:35) Kelly: What about you? What have you been up to? (0:03:52) Kevin: Boy, that movie’s real good good other than that Yesterday I cried that Super Mario wonder it just came out yesterday (0:04:04) Kevin: the newest one for this switch and It’s a good one Um, I’ll plug the rainbow road radio the other show I do with our mutual friend Alex We did our first look at it on that show. We just recorded and that’ll be dropping soon It’s fantastic it’s There’s I’m only a little bit in like on the second world but like every (0:04:23) Kelly: What do you think of it? (0:04:34) Kevin: level feels like it is introducing something new and different and I mean classic Mario is good you know 2d it’s your standard 2d Mario and whatnot so the gameplay is good and it’s just filled with all sorts of fun surprises and delights I’m going to spoil people on probably the best part that I’ve experienced so far there’s this level it’s like the second or third level you can do. (0:05:04) Kevin: There’s a bunch of piranha plants popping out of the pipes and you run and jump past them and whatnot. (0:05:09) Kevin: And then there’s the Wonder Flower which changes the level in different ways or whatnot. (0:05:15) Kevin: So when you touch the Wonder Flower, it starts this musical production and all the piranha plants just start singing. (0:05:23) Kevin: And it’s incredible, you entice everyone to at least look it up. (0:05:29) Kelly: I actually, I saw it on TikTok this morning and I was like, hmm, okay. (0:05:30) Kevin: It’s just so much fun. (0:05:34) Kevin: It’s so, because it just, right? (0:05:37) Kelly: Very much unexpected. (0:05:38) Kelly: I thought it was like somebody made it at first, like, you know, somebody edited it. (0:05:41) Kevin: Yep, it’s so out of the blue. (0:05:42) Kelly: But no, it was real. (0:05:45) Kevin: Yeah, no, it’s good. (0:05:48) Kevin: It’s really funny and yeah, the game just brings smiles to me every level with all sorts of unexpected twists and turns like that. (0:05:56) Kevin: So yeah, Mario Wonder, two thumbs up for me for sure. (0:05:59) Kevin: Like I said, people can go to Rainbow World Radio to hear more in-depth thoughts. (0:06:04) Kevin: But, yeah, that’s mostly what I’ve been up to. (0:06:08) Kevin: And now, with that, let’s hop on over to the news. (0:06:15) Kevin: We have, as always, a handful of, mostly game updates. (0:06:19) Kevin: Yeah, there’s a lot of game updates for some reason right now. (0:06:24) Kevin: So we’re going to start off talking about Coral Island. (0:06:30) Kevin: Okay, the one, okay, this is a big one. (0:06:34) Kevin: For people who may not remember, Coral Island is your standard Stardew-esque, well, I say standard. (0:06:40) Kevin: It’s got all your fixings, your farming, and it’s on an island, hence the name, right? (0:06:46) Kevin: So it has the tropical aesthetic and whatnot. (0:06:51) Kevin: But the big news is the 1.0 version is launching on November 14th, which is exciting. (0:06:58) Kevin: They have a trailer, and it looks expansive. (0:07:05) Kevin: There’s a lot going on. You have your farm, you can go underwater, you can meet mermaids, you can do your romancing, (0:07:12) Kevin: you can do, I think there’s even a race in there somewhere. All that good stuff. (0:07:18) Kevin: It looks very polished and like a 1.0 game. You can also… (0:07:22) Kelly: Yeah, I was going to say, it definitely looks like there’s, it looks a lot different than like the first, you know, clips I saw of it. (0:07:30) Kevin: Yep, absolutely. Yeah, it’s definitely a game now, for a better way of putting it. (0:07:36) Kelly: Yeah. (0:07:37) Kevin: And you can also dress up as a panda or dinosaur, so you know, there’s a lot going on there. You also get your little animal crossing, you can redecorate your house wherever you want. (0:07:49) Kevin: Oh, you can even have a baby in this, that’s wild. Yeah, that is dropping on November 14th, (0:07:58) Kevin: just a couple of weeks and it will be dropping on Steam, Xbox Series X/S, and PS5 they’re hoping for a 2024 release for a Switch version. Do you think you’ll try Coral Island or look in its general (0:08:12) Kelly: I think I might. I think it definitely looks really cute. I think it depends on if I’m playing anything, you know, when it comes out. I’m trying so hard not to, like, backlog myself. (0:08:22) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, that’s the hard part right too many games Yeah, no, that’s that’s a good idea I definitely have bought back So I respect that I think you can romance a mermaid so, you know, I’m not that going free I wonder how that’s gonna work. How are they gonna move up the land or vice versa? (0:08:43) Kevin: It’s a two-story floor but the bottom floor is underwater [laugh] (0:08:44) Kelly: just uh living in a two separate homes kind of situation there you go (0:08:52) Kevin: I’m down for that, um, yeah, right now it’s only 25 bucks, oh that’s not bad for this, that’s, that looks like a lot of content for 25 bucks, so, um, get excited. (0:09:06) Kevin: Um, oh, oh yeah, okay, sure, yep, that makes sense, that’s fair. (0:09:07) Kelly: Oh, it does say it’s going to release, I think, at $30, though. (0:09:11) Kelly: There’s a note about the price adjustment. (0:09:14) Kelly: But the diving looks really cool. (0:09:16) Kelly: I played a lot of Dave the Diver over the summer, (0:09:19) Kelly: so I feel like I’m still looking for games where I can go exploring like that. (0:09:19) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s good. (0:09:23) Kevin: Yeah, it does look good for like the animation stuff. (0:09:29) Kevin: I’m also a big fan of underwater type games and it looks very expansive down there. (0:09:35) Kevin: So yeah, there’s a post on Steam page with all the updates and everything. You guys can check it out. (0:09:44) Kevin: If you do have early access, it looks like there will be a save reset. (0:09:53) Kevin: So there is that. But, either way, November 14th, I look forward to it. I might actually check it out now. It looks pretty… (0:10:00) Kevin: So, next up we have Moonlight and Garland. (0:10:06) Kevin: I don’t know if this is a game announced, but it’s… (0:10:09) Kevin: Yeah, I guess it is, because they’re announcing their early access October 24th, which will probably already be out by the time people are listening to this. (0:10:18) Kevin: This is… here, let me read their, uh… (0:10:22) Kevin: The elevator pitch, where is it? (0:10:24) Kevin: A cozy open-ended life sim about finding your feet in the big city, decorate your apartment, make new friends, grow too many houseplants, and love your city life. (0:10:33) Kevin: Um, so it… yeah, it’s… it’s city-based, right? So you’re in an apartment, you’re not running a whole farm, but you can grow plants, you can have pets, um, make relationships and whatnot. (0:10:46) Kevin: The art style is… (0:10:48) Kelly: That’s the most realistic farming sim. (0:10:52) Kevin: » [LAUGH] (0:10:54) Kevin: » No, you’re right. (0:10:59) Kevin: » Yeah, yeah, Kelly can. (0:11:00) Kevin: Well, no, you’re in the house now, you’re not in an apartment anymore. (0:11:03) Kelly: No, but definitely, you know, went through that also, like, how do I keep my plans alive in my apartment when there’s no sun? (0:11:04) Kevin: But yeah, you know the feeling. (0:11:12) Kevin: Man, gosh, you’re super right. (0:11:16) Kevin: Boy, there’s a person showing an apartment with a lot of bunnies in their apartment, that seems difficult. (0:11:23) Kevin: You’re gonna have that many bunnies in an apartment. (0:11:26) Kevin: The art style is, it’s 2D pixelated, but it’s not Stardew-esque. (0:11:31) Kevin: It’s a little more cutesy than that, and I don’t know how to best describe it. (0:11:35) Kevin: And all the NPCs are kind of bobbing their head at the same time to some unknown beat, it is cute looking. (0:11:43) Kevin: And it’s only the early access, so I’m sure it’ll grow considerably more. (0:11:51) Kevin: That is, you know. (0:11:52) Kevin: October 23rd? 24th? I’m seeing two different days. (0:11:58) Kelly: I definitely want to follow up on it because just looking at the coming soon photo, it’s like why is there an iguana on the sidewalk? (0:12:06) Kevin: Hahaha! (0:12:06) Kelly: Can I have an iguana? (0:12:07) Kevin: Wait, you havin’ a guana? (0:12:08) Kelly: And then there’s also the bear man. (0:12:10) Kevin: Wait, wait, wait, wait, let me see, which one are you talkin’ about? (0:12:10) Kelly: I’m on the steam page, the early access release. (0:12:14) Kevin: What? (0:12:15) Kevin: Okay, okay, let me see… (0:12:17) Kelly: So in the coming soon photo that says steam early access, October 24th, whatever, wishlist now. (0:12:27) Kevin: Okay, okay. Oh, I’m looking at the wrong page. I would explain it wouldn’t it? Yup. There it is. Okay Yeah, I was looking the wrong page. There is a bear man. Why is there a bear man? (0:12:28) Kelly: There’s a bear man in the iguana, like do I get a pet iguana, do I get pet pigeons? (0:12:37) Kevin: Okay, I Okay, I want to mine a department full of pet iguanas that that I can do they’re pretty low-key There are pigeons. So, you know, definitely, you know, they’re hitting Oh, are they gonna have the the trash bags out on the sidewalk? (0:12:55) Kevin: Are they gonna go all in on the city? (0:12:57) Kevin: I don’t know if garland is a city name. It’s a city in texas. I know that much. (0:13:11) Kelly: Yeah. (laughs) (0:13:28) Kevin: But yeah, coming soon, early access. (0:13:31) Kevin: Next up, the clip side of early access, we got DLC patches, whatever you want to call it, for Sunhaven. (0:13:39) Kevin: This is the magical-esque farm where you do magic, there’s monsters, dragons, etc. (0:13:51) Kevin: It is patch 1.3, which includes new buildings. (0:13:58) Kevin: There are several that don’t look human, one is an angel, just straight up an angel. (0:14:04) Kevin: One guy is blue, he’s a moon attendant, whatever that means. (0:14:11) Kevin: You have to, they will be unlockable at some point, but that’s fascinating, dating non-humans like that. (0:14:20) Kevin: Oh, they will have a couple of other romancibles coming later this year. (0:14:28) Kevin: They will also have new farm structures and buildings. (0:14:32) Kevin: Greenhouses, silos, chicken coops, butterfly gardens, I like that. You don’t see that in farming games. (0:14:38) Kelly: That’s very unique, yeah. (0:14:40) Kevin: That’s cute, I love a butterfly garden. (0:14:44) Kevin: Monocyphoners, glorite siphoners, I don’t know what they are, workshops, and ticket counterfeiters. (0:14:54) Kevin: I don’t know what that means, but you’re counterfeiting. (0:14:57) Kevin: They’re up to crimes. I like that. (0:14:59) Kevin: I want to know why you can do crimes. (0:15:01) Kevin: Tickets for what? (0:15:03) Kevin: I don’t think they’re concert tickets. (0:15:05) Kevin: That’s fascinating. (0:15:07) Kevin: But yeah, there’s a whole bunch of other stuff. (0:15:10) Kelly: A lot of stuff. There’s like a ghost shed kit? I want a ghost shed. (0:15:11) Kevin: What does that mean? (0:15:18) Kevin: Do you keep ghosts in there? (0:15:19) Kelly: You grow them in there, maybe? (0:15:21) Kevin: I don’t… (0:15:23) Kevin: Oh wait, there are variations. (0:15:25) Kevin: variations because there’s pumpkin and mushroom. (0:15:27) Kevin: It looks like a ghost, oh I see it. (0:15:29) Kevin: Yeah, it has the eyes, the windows look like eyes and the glow, okay. (0:15:29) Kelly: Oh! (0:15:31) Kelly: That makes so much more sense because I was like oh mushroom shed. That’s just a shed where you grow mushrooms, you know That’s and then I just took the rest of them like that [laughs] (0:15:33) Kevin: Um, sh*t skins, yeah it does. (0:15:36) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, okay. (0:15:44) Kevin: Um, oh that’s the butterfly, wow those are big butterflies. (0:15:47) Kevin: Um, oh those are fascinating buildings. (0:15:49) Kevin: Um, let’s see, player birthdays. (0:15:53) Kevin: There is the birthday, birthday celebration. (0:15:57) Kevin: There is a huge pinata that you can hit, so I’m already down for this. (0:16:01) Kevin: Um, geez that’s like a full sized lion looking pinata, that’s great. (0:16:06) Kevin: Um, that’s uh, so all that’s included in the patch. (0:16:10) Kevin: Aside from that there will be DLC available. (0:16:13) Kevin: Um, all six different packs, trick or treat, spirit battle, rock and roll, cyber pop, monkey monkey, and dreamy ram. (0:16:22) Kevin: They’re all, they contain different items, packs, outfits, items, whatever. (0:16:27) Kevin: You guys can check the Steam page for details. (0:16:30) Kevin: Uh, for, yeah, there’s more details out there than we talked about, but, uh, yeah, that seems like a hefty patch. That seems like fun. (0:16:38) Kelly: Yeah, there’s a lot in this. This page goes on. (0:16:38) Kevin: Um, uh, yeah, it does. Um… (0:16:41) Kelly: And there’s even a coming soon, so… (0:16:43) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, they’re talking about future. (0:16:47) Kevin: Um, wow, new season of weather. Wow. (0:16:50) Kevin: Gloomy, what’s the difference between rainy and gloomy rain? I don’t know. (0:16:55) Kelly: Um, I think there’s I could I could understand that one (0:16:55) Kevin: But there you go All right, yeah, I guess. Okay, uh See like out here in Georgia. It’s a little more like rain. Not gloomy rain. Gloomy rains like hurricane force rain That’s what I think Wait no, yeah, okay. I get it (0:17:10) Kelly: No, I think gloomy rain is like when it’s kind of cold and like the sky is just dark and grey all day and it’s like just kind of constant. Like you could have nice rain, like you could have sunny rain, you could have like… (0:17:24) Kevin: Yeah, I do enjoy sun showers. (0:17:25) Kelly: It doesn’t have to be gloomy. (0:17:26) Kelly: Just like a normal rain shower isn’t always gloomy. (0:17:27) Kevin: You’re right. (0:17:28) Kevin: Yeah, no, you’re right, okay, um Yeah, so there’s all the whole bunch of stuff you guys can check that out Is that sorry? Yeah, when’s the release? I didn’t it’s it’s Oct they posted it October 20th It is oh, yeah, it’s already out on Steam. Yeah, so Now time this recording which means by the times you guys are listening. It is definitely available. That is again Sun haven (0:17:58) Kevin: Huh? Oh man, I’m just looking at the picture like a big tree man monster. I might have to check this out I like tree monsters. I I haven’t played a magic game in a minute. Well, I mean, well, maybe our keeper gentle notwithstanding Um, but it’s high, you know fantasy magic II I’m down for that. I could use that Yeah, uh, okay speaking of well, I don’t know more updates (0:18:04) Kelly: right? like i’m kind of like- i’m intrigued. i’m definitely very (0:18:17) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:18:18) Kelly: I feel like this is pretty different, yeah. (0:18:28) Kevin: We have so this is The what I refer to as not a city builder but a village builder because it’s medieval villagey themed But you’re helping build the whole village and run everything it is currently in early access and they are dropping a update for it I’m excited for this game myself. I’m gonna wait for the 1.0, but I love the art style. It’s cutesy and goofy (0:18:59) Kevin: and they are dropping all sorts of things in this update including a An encounter with a misunderstood Cyclops who’s very cute. His eye is just a dot His name is Eric one eye you can there will be a witch’s hut a red hooded girl Who’s looking for her grandma’s house? That that’s a speech. I don’t trust that at all. Oh, no, I don’t like that Hemisary gnomes (0:19:26) Kevin: It was seriously rare! (0:19:28) Kevin: And then a fawn with a really big nose and mustache. Oh, I like this guy. (0:19:33) Kevin: There’s a… and a few more. (0:19:36) Kevin: Well, those are fun characters that they’re adding. I love the art style and it looks really fun on these mythical, magical, whatever you want to call them. (0:19:46) Kevin: Cyclops and fawns. Gnomes. They’re fun looking characters. (0:19:48) Kelly: No, yeah, they look they look so cute. It looks very adorable (0:19:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:19:51) Kevin: Yep. (0:19:53) Kevin: There are, oh gosh, 50 new world events and 30 new objectives. (0:19:58) Kevin: I don’t know what that means, but those are big numbers. (0:20:00) Kevin: Oh, there’s a magic bean. (0:20:03) Kevin: There’s monthly and yearly objectives. (0:20:06) Kevin: Hot weight. Positive and negative events. Oh, oh, they’re, they’re, they’re wild. Okay, I’m down for that. (0:20:15) Kevin: They have, let’s see, new buildings, a laborer guild. Oh, so you can hire better laborers. That’s fun. A bank. (0:20:24) Kevin: Oh, you can tax your villagers at different rates? (0:20:28) Kevin: Oh, that’s awesome. Grand theater? Oh, that’s a nice looking theater. (0:20:34) Kevin: Fisherman’s hut? Fish up stuff? All sorts of quality of life stuff? (0:20:40) Kevin: Well, there’s a lot of graphs in this game and things like that. I’m down for that. (0:20:45) Kevin: Yeah, that’s a lot of stuff coming. Like I said, I’m probably going to wait for 1.0 myself, but I’m glad that it’s coming along nicely. Yeah, that is again fabled. (0:20:57) Kelly: Is there any, is there any real estate or? (0:20:59) Kevin: Go. Oh, it is live. That update is already live as of this recording. (0:21:05) Kevin: So, yay. If anyone is playing the one point or the early access, first of all, (0:21:10) Kevin: somebody tell me if they are because I want to know about it. And it is out already. (0:21:15) Kevin: Um, yeah. All right. Good. Oh man. I’m just trying to fable them. It’s so goofy looking and the. (0:21:23) Kelly: Is there like an overall release date or no? (0:21:33) Kevin: uh not that i’m saying now um I have left here a quick glance um yeah so probably still a hot minute probably sometime in 2024 i’d hope but uh it’s not dead yet so i’ll take that let’s see next up we have uh moonstone island we have dlc for that this is which one’s this one okay all right we so we have dlc come (0:22:11) Kevin: Well, let me get to the details. Yeah, it’s the Halloween update right? That’s the key thing here. Um, (0:22:16) Kelly: I think so, ‘cause it’s for Halloween. (0:22:17) Kevin: We’ve got just a whole bunch of Spooky decors per their website gravestones skeletons a big old pumpkin house um Web’s five types of cobwebs. Oh Oh a rug. That’s just the tongue. That’s clever. I like that. Um, (0:22:38) Kevin: uh So yeah, there. (0:22:41) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:43) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:45) Kelly: I’m sorry, it’s actually not out yet. (0:22:45) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:47) Kelly: It’s not out, which I’m kinda… (0:22:47) Kevin: Um, there are n- some- the- so some of this stuff is DLC, which I’m assuming means purchasable separately, but there will be stuff included for free in the updates on the skeletons and things like that. (0:22:58) Kevin: Um, spirits are free- I don’t know what spirits are in the context of this game, but um, but they’re coming some out. (0:23:05) Kevin: Um, oh wow, I didn’t check- it’s got some good reviews. (0:23:09) Kevin: Um, I’ll have to check that out. (0:23:11) Kevin: Oh wow, what? Oh gosh, I forgot about- I’m remembering the game. (0:23:15) Kevin: There’s- you can fight like robots with a card battling system. (0:23:19) Kevin: They are… (0:23:21) Kevin: Yeah, oh man, oh gosh. (0:23:23) Kelly: These are really cute looking things, these creatures. (0:23:26) Kelly: I, yeah, like, I really like the style of it, yeah. (0:23:26) Kevin: This whole episode’s just me getting excited about games I forgot to get excited about. (0:23:31) Kevin: Um, as if I didn’t have enough already. (0:23:33) Kevin: There are really cute characters- there’s a fishbowl with legs. (0:23:36) Kevin: Um, I like that. (0:23:39) Kevin: that. And then at the end they just. (0:23:41) Kevin: Have a picture of a cat with like a sun hood. I don’t know but um, it’s very cute cat. (0:23:47) Kevin: That is Moonstone Island. That is already out, I believe. Why do we have a date for that? (0:23:52) Kelly: It is a very cute cat. (0:23:54) Kelly: The game is out, it says “NA” for them. (0:23:56) Kevin: Okay, thank you. But it says, while says it’s October 27th. I (0:24:06) Kevin: Couldn’t find that myself. Oh wait. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, October 27th. It’s only $4. (0:24:11) Kevin: Okay, that’s actually not bad at all and 10% off the first week. So there’s 46. (0:24:18) Kevin: Yeah, okay. Oh, it’s a new spirits must be a little monster buddies. That’s what it means. I’m excited. One looks like an apple with a worm through it. They’re just showing silhouettes. I’m just guessing. (0:24:23) Kelly: There you go. (0:24:29) Kevin: And yeah, I don’t know all that. Oh, I might check this out now. It’s a very cute game. (0:24:34) Kevin: Moonstone Island. Um Let’s see Next up we have oh, this isn’t an interesting (0:24:41) Kevin: one because boy, I never thought we’d see this this is Lonesome Village game that I notoriously advocate because the developers are from Mexico. It’s got the cute coyote as you saw puzzles in a tower. They’re coming out the fiscal edition. Pre-orders are live. You can check the show notes for the link. It is not from limited run games actually. A game a site called premium edition games. (0:25:11) Kevin: physical edition which includes all sorts of goodies including oh wow a full-color manual oh that’s exciting Wow a dog tag yeah they do um oh man a manual that’s exciting um yeah it’s great um yeah I I cover this game with Johnny, it was last year or year before, I don’t remember. (0:25:22) Kelly: Dude, the indie games always put so much into like what you get from… (0:25:32) Kelly: I love a manual. (0:25:33) Kelly: A full color manual too, that’s so nice. (0:25:41) Kevin: It’s a fun little game with lots of puzzles, and just very very cute little animal-closing-esque villagers. (0:25:47) Kelly: It looks really cute. The art style kind of reminds me of like Cult of the Lamb, but without the like paper feel. (0:25:47) Kevin: It’s actually funny because in the “story” of the game, so it’s called Lonesome Village because there’s a village and everyone’s kind of been turned to stone or disappeared. (0:26:03) Kevin: And the villains, they’re the people who did it very much look like Cult of the Lamb. (0:26:06) Kelly: Okay. (0:26:07) Kelly: Oh! Oh! It’s a cult! It’s a cult! What is happening here? (0:26:09) Kevin: Yeah. (0:26:12) Kevin: It came out around the time Cult of the Loom. (0:26:14) Kelly: I’m watching the trailer! Oh my god! (0:26:15) Kevin: It looks a lot like Cult of the Loom. (0:26:18) Kevin: The cult from Cult of the Loom. (0:26:20) Kevin: I think we made the joke in the episode. (0:26:22) Kevin: It came out around the same time too. (0:26:25) Kevin: Yep, yep, exactly. Yep. (0:26:26) Kelly: That’s so funny, ‘cause I was thinking it kinda like reminds me of the way they do the animals, like the style of the animals. (0:26:32) Kelly: But now that I’m watching this trailer, it’s like literally… (0:26:32) Kevin: It’s cult, it’s a lot like Cult of the Loom, Cult. (0:26:36) Kelly: That’s so funny. Oh, I gotta play this. (0:26:41) Kevin: Yeah, I have to check it out again. I still have it. (0:26:45) Kevin: It’s been a while. I’m sure they patched it up and done some stuff. (0:26:48) Kevin: ‘Cause I had a few rough edges back then, but I’m curious. (0:26:51) Kevin: I might do another look at it at some point. (0:26:54) Kevin: Because, yeah, props to–but, again, Mexican dev team, so I gotta shout them out. (0:26:59) Kevin: Ogre Pixel, that’s the name. (0:27:02) Kevin: But, yeah, that is a cute little logo of an Ogre–Pixillator Ogre. (0:27:07) Kevin: And again, this is the physical edition release. (0:27:11) Kevin: $40 for the premium edition, which seems to be their only version but includes all sorts of goodies. Um, I When do pre-orders end? I don’t know if I see that but the pre-orders are available now So you can check out the site and get it. Um Alright next up we have Not Garden Galaxy is perfect. We’re heading on the notes. That’s a different game that I was going to cover almost (0:27:42) Kevin: Garden story. That’s the one with the playable grape. That looks a lot like Stardew Valley a lot like It has It’s very cute though the grape that’s playable It is an update that has 11 new languages. Wow, that is a lot of languages I don’t know which ones they are. I just see the It’s out on Steam and switch already this update (0:28:09) Kevin: Very cool. Yeah, I actually don’t know what language is. I don’t know. (0:28:11) Kevin: Let’s see the details. But wow, that’s a big number. Good for them. (0:28:16) Kevin: Always props for making it more available for more people and whatnot. (0:28:19) Kevin: Yep. It is. The grape is very cute. (0:28:20) Kelly: Yeah, that’s always awesome. It really does look like stardew though. It’s cute though (0:28:25) Kevin: Next up, a new game announcement for as far as I can tell. (0:28:31) Kevin: This is called Fantastic Haven, which actually I find really intriguing. (0:28:36) Kevin: It’s the prime… (0:28:40) Kevin: Let me read the– (0:28:41) Kevin: The elevator pitch. (0:28:43) Kevin: So, this is a… (0:28:57) Kevin: Yeah, a Zook cheaper-esque type game, but they’re all magical creatures. (0:29:03) Kevin: Um, so you’re building big pens that look like circular homes more? (0:29:09) Kevin: Um, you alter the land and… (0:29:11) Kevin: It’s full 3D graphics, um, the… I think the actual designs of the creatures are actually quite nice, um… (0:29:18) Kevin: I like animals and critters and… (0:29:21) Kevin: …cheaping them and whatnot, so I’m already pretty interested, um, especially with the spin of… (0:29:26) Kevin: …like, they’re all magical creatures, I don’t see any other animals in here, I see like a griffin, uh… (0:29:31) Kelly: No, I’ve only seen, like, yeah, griffins and some weird frog with, like, horns and stuff. (0:29:31) Kevin: Yup, it’s a bullfrog, you get it? (0:29:36) Kelly: Ah, yes, yes, yes. (0:29:41) Kevin: The color shows a lot more, uh, it looks like you’re even busting some out of, like, cages and, like, carny… (0:29:46) Kevin: …you know, those carnival cages with the wheels, the cars, um… (0:29:51) Kevin: So that’s… that looks very fun, yeah, like I said, a lot of menus, probably, um… (0:29:57) Kevin: …very zookeeper tycoon-esque, um, but with the heavy, uh, magical fantasy paint over it, um… (0:30:06) Kevin: So that is right now the only release date planned is for Q2 of 2024 so it’ll probably be a minute but look forward to it I certainly am those are some fun designs yeah it’s it’s it’s charming enough for me I’m definitely interested um and then lastly okay this one I want to talk about in depth a little more because this one’s affecting me personally uh well actually there’s two me and my neck was night market once again got another patch that one. (0:30:41) Kevin: one point two point one oh whatever the it’s out on switch so you know it’s out on the steam version or whatever um so uh there’s a lot of quality of life stuff you can do with it. (0:30:48) Kevin: I’m not gonna go into the details because I don’t remember them but the other one I want to talk about because we just talked about last week is paleo pines. (0:30:53) Kevin: We just got yup okay so uh one point two point one oh whatever the it’s out on switch so you know it’s out on the steam version or whatever um so uh there’s a lot of quality of life stuff you can do with it. (0:30:54) Kelly: Which I still have to play, but I have not yet. (0:31:11) Kevin: We can change how quickly time passes in the game um oh gosh so one of the after I recorded last week with Spencer and we talked and played I was getting a lot of crashes. (0:31:23) Kevin: They had released a patch previously to fix some of that they said it was like a memory issue um but they were still experiencing it. (0:31:26) Kelly: Mmm. Okay. (0:31:31) Kevin: I felt like the more farther I got in the game the more I was crashed getting crashes uh they addressed some of that. (0:31:37) Kevin: that the game is still not free of crashes because (0:31:41) Kevin: we’ve been probably within an hour after downloading the update the game crashed on me again But it is better in general So they’re definitely aware and working on it at probably top of their list There is Also, there’s a whole list and you can check the show notes for them. I’m trying to look at which ones that are Stand out to me. Oh, there’s a cooking pot (0:31:46) Kelly: Oh, God. (0:32:07) Kevin: But it was weird because it was at some other guy’s house you have to go all the way to this other (0:32:12) Kevin: cook stuff but now you can buy one for your own ranch so that’s great oh here’s a fun one um so you can ride your dinosaurs because of course you can but the thing was whenever you got off of them they would just run away from you at max speed it was whole it was wild you could like try to stop them but um clearly not intended they have addressed that and and this definitely was an update needed and and it works um they will no longer run away from you when you get off of them (0:32:42) Kevin: um yes well luckily I think it was only in the ranch like your home base when it happened they wouldn’t leave you when you’re out in the wild oh my god that would be the worst yes but it’s still a pain because your character is a lot slower than the dinosaur so yeah yeah it’s just a pain having to go across the ranch to find them I mean it’s a pretty big ranch too um (0:32:44) Kelly: feeling it’s like okay nice I can I can get to the place I’m going to but once you’re there you’re stuck there now (0:32:56) Kelly: Oh, okay, okay, I was picturing like you, yeah, like you in the middle of like some field or something. (0:33:12) Kevin: uh there’s all sorts oh horse lock so there was a uh resource called forestwood that was needed for a lot of things it was pretty rare they increased the respawn on that that’s great um they did some ui improvements which were nice uh um lots of other things some oh there was a storage glitch spencer talked about think they fixed that um yeah just sort lots of little things (0:33:42) Kevin: because there were lots of little things that needed fixing um like I said still not 100 percent yeah yeah there is um where is it do they not have it um so there there is I read there is one glitch that they haven’t addressed yet um they know it’s an issue but for some reason at some point and it’s happened to me your game will reset to the first day of the game because there’s you know calendar like most farm. (0:34:12) Kevin: games and whatnot like you’ll keep all your stuff but somehow the calendar will just have reset to the very first game or very first day of the year which is wild um luckily I was able to get around that if you encounter it you can just reload an old save and it’s fine but um that was the wild glitch to see um but yeah that was I’m glad that came out because that addressed a lot of the little nitpicks Spencer and I had with the game and I’m sure (0:34:42) Kevin: they’re still working hard on that so good for you paleopines that update again is out already for switch and probably the other versions whatever versions it’s on all right so that was uh yeah the hearty helping of news and things but that’s now we’re doing that let’s talk about grave graveyard keeper yeah what’s what’s the tagline the most inaccurate medieval simulator isn’t that (0:35:09) Kelly: Something like that. I know inaccurate is involved of [laugh] (0:35:14) Kevin: Hold on let me look at it. Um the most inaccurate cemetery simulation game. Okay. Yeah, I think that’s what it is Okay Well Yeah, so again, um It and this game’s been up for years at this point. Um, I’ll covered it years ago Yeah. Yeah, there you go. That’s cute (0:35:24) Kelly: Oh, the most inaccurate medieval, yeah, cemetery sim of the year. (0:35:36) Kelly: Uh, they had their five year anniversary actually in August. (0:35:42) Kevin: There’s a bunch of DLC I bought the (0:35:44) Kevin: version with all the DLC I don’t know what the base game hazard does not have. (0:35:48) Kevin: I’ve only played it for an afternoon or two. I don’t think I’ve reached any of the DLC portions yet probably. (0:35:49) Kelly: Oh, did you? Okay. (0:35:57) Kevin: They’re all parody names there’s a stranger sins there’s breaking something (0:35:57) Kelly: Um, I’m trying to remember. I know the DLC… (0:35:59) Kelly: Yes, because there’s better save soul. (0:36:04) Kelly: Um, I did look into getting them, but I didn’t- I didn’t, because I think it was like- (0:36:11) Kelly: I feel like there’s- there’s so much going on in this game already. (0:36:14) Kevin: Even if it is, there’s a lot going on. (0:36:14) Kelly: Uh, that I was very happy to not have the added, um, things that like go along with the better save soul one. I heard that gets a lot of pretty tedious. (0:36:24) Kevin: Yeah, heh heh heh. (0:36:25) Kevin: Better save solo, that’s good. (0:36:29) Kevin: I don’t think that one’s out on Switch. (0:36:31) Kevin: That’s it? I don’t know if that one’s out on Switch. (0:36:32) Kelly: Oh, are you playing on Switch? I am not gonna lie. I have not. (0:36:36) Kelly: I’ve been so bad at playing my Switch this year. (0:36:44) Kevin: But, I mean, that’s fine, like, I know that the Switch port gets black for a good reason. (0:36:55) Kevin: There’s a Switch tax for sure, so I don’t blame you. (0:36:57) Kevin: But hey, at least we can compare notes on that. (0:37:00) Kevin: If you played on Steam, I would guess? (0:37:10) Kevin: Um, but okay, so let’s okay, let’s the elevator pitch Okay, first of all, I didn’t expect that this game’s an isekai That I didn’t expect at all so for people unfamiliar with isekai that is a genre of anime primarily where a character wakes up in a simulated often fantasy type world (0:37:38) Kevin: Sword Art Online and just… (0:37:40) Kevin: …other ones. It’s a whole trope now. (0:37:42) Kevin: Umm… (0:37:43) Kelly: I was gonna say it breaks the, you know, inherited your grandpa’s farm trope though. (0:37:44) Kevin: … (0:37:46) Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. (0:37:48) Kevin: You’re just a guy who gets hit by a car cause he’s looking at his phone. (0:37:52) Kevin: Don’t look at your phone when crossing the streets. (0:37:54) Kevin: It’s dark in the rain, people. (0:37:56) Kevin: It’s not recommended. (0:37:58) Kevin: And he wakes… (0:37:59) Kelly: Poor dude’s just trying to give back to his girlfriend or whatever. (0:38:00) Kevin: …yeah, his love, as he says, and… (0:38:03) Kevin: …he wakes up in a graveyard area and… (0:38:08) Kevin: There’s a talking skull that talks to you. (0:38:10) Kevin: And he says, “Hey, welcome. You’re the graveyard keeper, I guess.” (0:38:13) Kevin: Um, more or less, and sure enough, you’re put in charge of this graveyard in this little medieval village area. (0:38:23) Kevin: And you’re trying to figure out how to get back home while managing the graveyard and all the stuff people are asking you. (0:38:32) Kevin: Because, of course, people are going to ask you to do everything around here. (0:38:35) Kevin: Uh… (0:38:36) Kelly: I mean, what would a game be without everybody asking you to do all these things? (0:38:40) Kevin: Right, right. (0:38:42) Kevin: Um, so, okay, hell, you beat the game, correct? What are your overall impressions? (0:38:50) Kelly: I really liked the game. I thought it was a lot of fun. I think there’s a lot of stuff to do, (0:38:57) Kelly: like it can get a bit overwhelming, but I think, you know, it definitely involves, you know, (0:38:59) Kevin: Boy does it. (0:39:01) Kevin: Oh. Yep. (0:39:04) Kelly: looking things up online. But I will say there is an issue with how intuitive it is. (0:39:08) Kevin: Yep. (0:39:10) Kevin: Yep. (0:39:12) Kelly: I think I could have been further along in my gameplay if I understood some of the (0:39:20) Kelly: panics. A lot better. And I will say on that note, it was not always easy to find the answers on the internet. So that made it even worse. And sometimes if you did find an answer, (0:39:21) Kevin: Yep. Okay, so yeah, so. Mm-hmm. (0:39:31) Kevin: Oh yeah, the double whammy, oh yeah. (0:39:35) Kevin: Yup, it’s wild. (0:39:38) Kelly: it was from like 2018, so something got patched or didn’t work like that anymore. (0:39:46) Kelly: So, that was my biggest issue. (0:39:48) Kelly: Did it stop me from putting in, you know, (0:39:50) Kelly: 90 hours, I think, or whatever into the game? (0:39:55) Kelly: No, but there were definitely moments where I was frustrated. (0:39:59) Kelly: Or, like, again, just like, I was playing the game, I was enjoying myself, (0:40:03) Kelly: but I could have been further along than what I was. (0:40:07) Kevin: Yeah, um, okay. Mm-hmm Okay, yeah for sure they’re just Yeah, absolutely. Um, so for comparison I got the game Thursday I think today’s like Saturday. So two days ago So I’ve only played for and Mario wonder so I didn’t play as much yesterday So I played the game for an afternoon and then some um, I like the game a lot. Um, (0:40:07) Kelly: And not even in, like, a micromanagy, like, you know, whatever kind of way. (0:40:13) Kelly: Like, in, like, a… (0:40:15) Kelly: It would have made more sense. (0:40:26) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:40:37) Kevin: I think it is Almost minecrafty and how open it is and crafting and everything But I fully agree like that’s my biggest criticism there’s a lot that is not intuitive Or explained well Yep, yep, yep, I’m sure (0:40:50) Kelly: you haven’t even gotten or opened a lot of the, you know, different aspects of the game yet at this point, I’m sure, because it really expands. It expands a lot. There is a lot to do. There is so (0:41:03) Kevin: But I can imagine… I mean I see the skill tree. (0:41:07) Kevin: So… I can… I can… she’s… I can… (0:41:12) Kevin: So there’s a skill tree in this game, right? You have to get points to unlock your skills. (0:41:18) Kevin: And you can see how far it goes. And yes, I can see there’s a lot to unlock and do and whatnot. (0:41:24) Kevin: But… I think the skill tree is probably where I can direct my first criticism. (0:41:32) Kevin: Because there’s three types of points, whatever you want to call them. (0:41:37) Kevin: Red, green, and blue, and you need different amounts of each for unlocking each new skill, which lets you craft new things or do new things, whatnot. (0:41:46) Kevin: Um, the red and green work hard to get, but the blue, the blue is killing me because I hit a point where I had like one blue point overall and couldn’t figure out how to get more. (0:41:56) Kelly: You run out of them. (0:41:58) Kevin: Yeah. (0:41:59) Kelly: There’s a certain point where the game just stops you from getting more for a bit. (0:42:02) Kevin: Really? Wow. (0:42:04) Kelly: Not like stops you. (0:42:06) Kelly: There’s definitely a roadblock, I would say. (0:42:11) Kevin: - Yeah, okay. (0:42:14) Kelly: I struggled with that for so long. (0:42:17) Kelly: And then, of course, at a certain point, it’s like, oh. (0:42:20) Kelly: Now, actually, you’re out of red. (0:42:23) Kelly: Or now you’re out of green or whatever. (0:42:25) Kelly: And it’s like, oh, something that I– (0:42:26) Kelly: so I think one of them is done from manual labor, red, I think. (0:42:27) Kevin: yep yep your manufacturing and things yeah red okay oh you don’t get read from them (0:42:34) Kelly: Yeah, so at a certain point, you get helper zombies that you can assign to do things. (0:42:42) Kelly: So you’re no longer getting the red from those things that you would be getting red from. (0:42:47) Kelly: So it definitely makes you have to stop and think and watch everything. (0:42:56) Kevin: Yup, absolutely, um, it’s a very resource-manage-y heavy game and that includes your skill points or whatever you want to call them. (0:43:07) Kevin: That’s fascinating. (0:43:09) Kevin: Like I can see the blue are going to be very scarce. (0:43:11) Kelly: But I think it’s interesting because it does… (0:43:13) Kelly: Sorry, I was gonna say it just it does impact, I feel like, (0:43:18) Kelly: what you’re trying to do in that day. Because if you’re trying to get blue points… (0:43:19) Kevin: Right. Yeah, exactly. (0:43:22) Kevin: The nice thing, one of the nicest things about the game, (0:43:26) Kevin: there’s no real pressure. (0:43:28) Kevin: There’s no seasons or years or whatever. (0:43:31) Kevin: There’s a week. (0:43:32) Kevin: So like in six, seven, I don’t remember how long, how many days, (0:43:36) Kevin: but that’s the worst that you have to wait. (0:43:37) Kelly: It’s seven days Which and I liked I like I really like the fact that there was no pressure on the seasons or When you finished the game even or anything like that. I also liked the Each day is a different person You have to make sure that you’re getting the things you need to have done before that day so you can go and deal with that person (0:43:38) Kevin: Yep. Which go by quickly. (0:43:42) Kevin: Yep. (0:43:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:43:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:44:03) Kevin: Yep, he just gotta wait until… (0:44:03) Kelly: Because there’s definitely some weeks where if you miss that person you’re screwed (0:44:07) Kelly: Yup. And there is something later on in the game, you know, when things have slowed down in certain areas and you’re just like waiting for that one day where you can fast forward. (0:44:10) Kevin: Until that point. (0:44:21) Kelly: Yes, but I do actually want to say on that point, I think this is very interesting because there is no pause button. There’s no space yet. (0:44:21) Kevin: Yeah, sure that makes sense. Yeah, you can fast-forward at any point you should go to sleep and (0:44:32) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, even if you’re in your menus, time goes on. (0:44:37) Kelly: Yeah, you have to literally like go to the exit screen or whatever. Like the main menu page. (0:44:41) Kevin: Yeah Yep Yep, so if you’re looking through your notes here You know hemming and hawing at a menu thinking about where you want to spend your points that happened to me just just today When I was playing I cuz I finally got some blue points today. And so I was just like agonizing over I wanted where I wanted to spend them and before when I got out of the menu Oh, it’s evening already. Cool. The whole day’s [laughter] (0:44:43) Kelly: There’s a certain page that stops time, but the rest of them don’t. (0:44:48) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:45:09) Kelly: Yep. (0:45:11) Kelly: Yep. (0:45:12) Kevin: But they’re the kind of I mean, I don’t know if it was their intent or not But the way to combat that it’s very easy to reroll your did your save like you own there’s no autosave It just saves when you go when you wake up So most of the time you can say you’re pretty much have a safe at the start of the date or start of the day, excuse me, and You can just reload to that and have a plan or save yourself (0:45:23) Kelly: Oh, yes. (0:45:25) Kelly: Yes. (0:45:29) Kelly: I would just quit the game. (0:45:32) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:45:40) Kelly: Oh yeah, no, there was many times where I would either just, you would see like the NPC walking away from their post, and I would have to go and reset the game and then do the day over and make sure I got there early enough. (0:45:47) Kevin: Oh my gosh. (0:45:50) Kevin: Yep. (0:45:52) Kevin: Oh my gosh. (0:45:54) Kevin: That happened to me twice already when I go down and Snake is running away and like, “No, I need to talk to you, Snake.” (0:46:02) Kelly: oh god he’s so annoying he’s so annoying for the skill points though I think it’s like kind of fun like there’s some weird ones you can choose from uh-huh (0:46:05) Kevin: He is. (0:46:08) Kevin: He is. (0:46:11) Kevin: Yeah. (0:46:13) Kevin: Overall, I’m a big fan of the Skilled Trees, umm… (0:46:17) Kevin: Because you can very much pick and choose if you want to focus on certain areas and whatnot. (0:46:23) Kevin: Umm, obviously like… (0:46:25) Kevin: To get green points, that’s the farming stuff, so you do want to invest in some of that stuff. (0:46:30) Kevin: Umm, but like, early on you can really get through a lot of the wood and metalworking stuff. (0:46:37) Kevin: Umm, and again, with almost no pressure on when to do it, umm, it’s… (0:46:42) Kevin: It’s very open and you’re very free to pick and choose as you want. (0:46:46) Kevin: You know, (0:46:47) Kevin: the limitations of how many skill points you actually have notwithstanding. (0:46:52) Kevin: I think it is a clever system. (0:46:54) Kevin: And because you get to see what’s coming ahead, that helps you plan that too. (0:47:00) Kevin: I really like that. (0:47:01) Kelly: Yes, definitely. (0:47:01) Kevin: Um… (0:47:02) Kelly: There was definitely some areas in the skill tree though where I did not understand what, (0:47:09) Kelly: like if you unlocked something, (0:47:12) Kelly: I didn’t understand how to access it afterwards, (0:47:15) Kelly: which then led to me diving down a rabbit hole, (0:47:18) Kelly: trying to figure it out. (0:47:18) Kevin: Yeah, sometimes that’s a little unclear most of the time When you look at the skill tree thing it says okay, you can craft at this bench or that bench or whatever But some are not very clear. Yeah Some aren’t super clear. Yeah But I do agree (0:47:27) Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it definitely is pretty good. (0:47:30) Kelly: It’s pretty good. (0:47:34) Kelly: Can we talk about the main premise of the game, which I think is the most weird and fun part is, you know, collecting your corpses? (0:47:41) Kevin: Yeah, the it’s definitely yeah the differentiator the the the graveyard itself. Yeah, let’s talk about that (0:47:43) Kelly: Because you are, you are quite literally the graveyard keeper. So you get a (0:47:54) Kelly: Annoyed little donkey that delivers corpses to you. (0:47:56) Kevin: I’m red donkey from a leftist stable [laughter] (0:47:57) Kelly: And oh my god, there was so many times where I would hear that bell and just be so far away from home. (0:48:06) Kelly: And just go running because it’s like the second you hear that bell that corpse starts, you know, deteriorating. (0:48:12) Kevin: Yep Yeah, that’s that’s an interesting aspect that the forps is deteriorate and it affects a lot of things And yeah, they’re kind of deliver just at random times. It feels like I didn’t detect any pattern Umm… (0:48:22) Kelly: Yeah. (0:48:23) Kelly: Yes. (0:48:27) Kelly: No, they can definitely be whenever. (0:48:31) Kelly: And they can pile up too. (0:48:34) Kevin: Oh my gosh, I don’t think I’ve had that happen yet, but I could see that happening. (0:48:35) Kelly: Yeah, no, they can definitely pile up. (0:48:43) Kelly: I mean, this game goes in depth. (0:48:48) Kelly: I have freezers for bodies. (0:48:53) Kelly: So, you know, it’s like you are literally treating it like a morgue, like… (0:48:57) Kelly: But I think one of the most fun parts is removing the organs, (0:49:03) Kelly: but also the most hard to understand initially. (0:49:06) Kevin: Right, so yeah, let’s talk about that because as very early on you’re introduced that you have options to do the corpse One you can bury them in your graveyard. It has a prettiness rating you how you decorate it Well, you bury them and whatnot You can even just throw it in the river or cremate them or You can take them into your morgan Do a little bisection, you know see what you can poke around and find in there pull out a skull some blood What? (0:49:36) Kevin: A bit of flesh. (0:49:38) Kevin: It’s fascinating that they gave you this option. (0:49:43) Kevin: There’s… (0:49:44) Kevin: I haven’t gotten too in-depth with the body parts. (0:49:47) Kelly: So, I’ll explain it. It’s a lot. (0:49:51) Kelly: Basically, your corpse, so when you bury a corpse, you want it to be as high rated as possible because it impacts your cemeteries overall like beauty rating, (0:50:05) Kelly: which is a whole different aspect. (0:50:07) Kelly: And that’s a big part of the game because it kind of roadblocks you if you don’t keep up with it. (0:50:11) Kelly: But so you want to make sure you’re removing. (0:50:14) Kelly: If you remove certain organs, it makes your corpses… (0:50:17) Kelly: …that’s how you can remove them. (0:50:19) Kelly: If you remove other organs, it decreases it, and they don’t really tell you at first. (0:50:23) Kelly: You have to unlock skills on the skill tree… (0:50:25) Kelly: …that tell you. (0:50:25) Kevin: Yeah, I mean they tell you like there’s bad organs, but you don’t you can’t tell which ones until you go get that later (0:50:29) Kelly: Yes. Yes. (0:50:34) Kelly: And so you can remove organs, and you can also try to put the organ back. (0:50:38) K

Transcript: All right, so today we are, this is our fifth Monday of the month. So this is gonna be more of a quarterly business review, mastermind group, Strategy Session, etc, I got a very specific couple of things that I'm going to go over. And then we're going to open it up for live q&a, we'll stay on this call, I've got our normal hours set aside, but also got room beyond that. Everybody wants to stay on and strategize for their quarter. But that's our agenda for today. And so let me get my screen set up here. And go ahead and mute you guys. Okay, all right. So the Okay, so every single calendar quarter. For as long as I can remember, I've got a process that I go through. And I like the last. You know, it's different for everybody. Like, for me, it is the last day of every single actual calendar quarter that I do this. And so but for the sake of this group, we are reserving the fifth, Friday, or the fifth Monday, the fifth, you know, when there's a fifth meeting of the month, or the end of our calendar quarter. Okay, so it's, I plan on doing this group for probably another 1520 years. As I'm probably going to even switch my own planning that before the, you know, this particular cycle, because there's a very specific thing that I go through. And it has served me well, I learned this. Actually, I do you know, when I started this, this was in April of 2009. I had built my IT company to a point of doing $1 million a year in revenue. And there was an organization back then called Heartland Technology Group. The original group, the original founders were Arlen Sorensen. Arnie billini, who was the founder of ConnectWise, managed services and ultimately ConnectWise, the PFA tool, Eric Simpson was a part of that group who founded the MSP University. And I think there were two other people and they started HTG. So Armand Sorensen's one ticket, turned it into business, grew it to 37 mastermind groups, and I think 16 countries at the time, and I was part of HTG 08. And so that's how the structure was. And the thing I really wanted to do with this maximum I group is kind of take a lot of the stuff I've learned from that mastermind group and bring it to this group. And so some of these forms that you're gonna see things like that are things that I learned and I got through there, in order to even join that group, you had to be a million dollar business had to be at the time a managed service company, largest one in the group of 18 and a half million, the average MSP was $4.5 million. So the association alone was, was stellar. I mean, I, I, there's so many things I got out of the group. But really, the association was number one, being able to associate with successful people, upwardly mobile people, and that's one of the things so a lot of you are going to be listening to this recording. And so that's one of the things it's like, when people join this group, you know, we're maxing this particular group of 12. And the only way a spot once it gets to 12, my goal is to get it to 12 by the end of the month. And, and so I want to get there by the end of the month, because why not? I haven't even really focused on doing it. But it's, we've got a second mastermind group, we want to start in September, and that is going to be okay, you're already at $100,000 in personal income, that means that your business revenue is income in your pocket after taxes, everything. Once you hit that level, then the next group that we're starting is, is you're at that level and you want to get to a million dollars a year and top line revenue. And so we want to we're going to start that probably September one and I say we because I'm finalizing a partnership with one of the top AI companies, digital marketing agencies pretty much in the country, he and I have decided that we're going to actually form a business together. And so you're in the area of Aneesa. So, Adrian Boyle, he runs Adrian agency. And he has Lee Butler, and he is digital manager for content at scale. So he and I share very similar values, and that we want to help small business owners. Both of us came from very humble backgrounds, we both have made lots and lots of money, but lots of businesses and had it all crumble, and they had to rebuild it. So we have very similar values. But the skill sets with the two of us combined, just gonna make this call even more valuable. So my goal for this is to help everybody here really take their business to whatever level they want. But every single quarter, it's important to take the time out. Important to come in and, and really look at things. And so in the Dropbox folder, I uploaded there this morning, a thing called a quarterly business review template. Feel free, you know, in your case, Jack or the other people that you're listening to this call, feel free to take this document and make it your own, do your own quarterly business review with your own clients. And feel free to use whatever you want here. And so really, when you're coming to the table, this is what we were required to do every single quarter that we came together. And for us, it was two days, we had to fly in the night before it was a welcome dinner and then two full days. Well, one full day, from 8am till 8pm. At night. The only breaks we really got was to check our email and go you know, change but it was a working lunch working breakfast working dinner, Happy Hour was mandatory, etc. And you get to know somebody in that timeframe. The second day, we went until about 4pm. And then at the end of the quarter, the end of the two and a half days or two full days if you math. They handed out flips MLS sheet of paper and had every single business in the room, they Max they met. It was a max of 12 business owners and they had a facilitator in this group, it's going to be an acts of troll business owners. I'm the facilitator. And so for two full days, they deep dove into this and they went around the room. And they said okay, based off of what you heard over the last two days, if you own stock, I'll just use my own company, for example, Intelligent Business Network Solutions if you own stock, and IBM s John Pyron. Lee and the President, would you buy more? Based off of what you've heard over the last few days? Or would you hold your stock and give him another calendar quarter to implement what this group has given him? Or would you sell and get out while the getting's good? Well, if the majority of the room sold, you were kicked out. You're, you're done. You're out. Okay? If it wasn't. So that's how important a group was. Okay. And so over time, we want to get a culture of everybody in the group showing up playing at a higher level, hitting their goals hitting their targets, I mean, it just creates a culture that we have here, that is going to elevate everybody's business. So this is what we did, we did a quarterly business review, we would come to the table, this is all be filled out before we even got here. So we're just gonna go through it this time. So that way, the next quarter, everybody's prepare, okay, and it'll be in place before we get there next time, but highly recommend you go and download this. And each one of you can bring this than that to the group, send it to me, whatever. I'll give you feedback. What areas do you need assistance? What are the items that you need help with in the next 60 minutes? Okay, what is the biggest crisis on your hands? And then we go into the quarter, we want to baseline strategy the quarter. So for those of you that are not familiar with baseline, baseline is let's just take money to say we're going to measure money here. Let's say you look back, so the homework is this. We're at the end of August. So August, July in June. So in June, wait, we're at the end of July. So May June July, right. What are the numbers? Okay, let me give you some numbers here. That are probably important. Okay. Total probably line revenue. Total boss Have goods sold. So if you're not familiar with cost of goods sold cost of goods sold is I sell a pair of sunglasses, or a pair of reading glasses, or $1. Okay? My cost of goods sold is how much labor, Arts Etc went into making this pair of glasses. And let's just say it's $8.80. So my total cost of goods sold in that example would be 80 cents. My revenue was $1. So my profit is going to be 20. That's nice. So the next line item is going to be total gross. Profit. Total, what's called S G, the ampersand sign and a census. That's insurance, that cell phone bill that's administrative stuff that's office supplies, that insurance. That's gas, it's not being billed to client. It's all the other expenses that have nothing to do with delivering the product or service. So you have your total SGN expenses and then you have your total net profit which is called permit you're gonna want to know EB i t da, your total EBITA. Okay, which stands for earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. Okay, so earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, part of your SG and a expense and I'm going to give you this secret, while you all are still young in your business life when you start enjoying the fruits of being a business owner, meaning I pay my cell phone bill, okay, and because my son is 16 and he's over zero, because the tax thing in 2017 allows me to do this and because I am married, my wife's cell phone bill, her Apple Watch, line, my son's cell phone bill, my Apple Watch line my iPad, everything is all on one Verizon bill and it's all paid for by my business 100% legal etc. Because it is a company expense. Here's the point when under scna since find a way to categorize owner senses Okay, your salary, the insurance, payroll taxes associated with you health care coverage home office reimbursement expenses, your cell phone bill your car, you have two cars, one of them should be sold to your company. Bank One um should be used for business purposes only if you're a sole proprietor should have two separate checking accounts personal checking accounts are fine, okay. The only tip I'll give you as a sole proprietor that's very important is go to the IRS website and type in SSH for and do an EIN for your personal sole proprietorship. So you don't have to give out your personal social security number. Okay? So go there even if you're a sole proprietor, it all is going to come on to your personal return under a Schedule C. So you'll want to get your own EIN number so when somebody is having you give them a W nine you're not giving your own personal social security number. When you go to the bank and you open up a checking account, you can open up a personal checking account, it does not have to be a business account. Those things don't charge a fee for personal accounts. He is is have one for business and one for personal and don't mingle funds. Okay? You're gonna take money out of if you're a sole proprietor and you're gonna pay yourself write a check or transfer from the business account to your personal account that way it's clean. But if you start tracking your SG and a expenses and separating out all your own personal expenses when it comes time to sell the business or comes time to properly evaluate the business, it's easy for someone like me to pull out if I got rid of the owner, how much EBIT are actually exists? Right so I have a client. He owns an insurance company the the 300 almost four $100,000 a year in commissions, she's got a staff of five people. She is employee number five, escort. She's been at it for 29 years. And we've worked together for the last two and a half years for the sole purpose of giving the business to the point where she can disappear for an entire month and not have to worry about the business. So she's coming back from Alaska, I think today, she's been gone all month. Well, while she was gone, some guy reached out to her and said, hey, I'm interested in buying your insurance business. He said, No. Cash Machine. No. And then she slept on it. And she goes, Wait, everything's for sale. I wonder what I wonder what I can get. So she calls back, the guy says, Yeah, I'd be open for the right price. And so she calls me up. And I said, Well, it's outside of the purview of my normal coaching arrangement with you, but I will do it. And that's X amount of money. And so I will facilitate the whole deal. So when I went to measure the EBIT, or when I went to actually do the valuation of the business, first thing out of my mouth is I need the last three years of tax returns, I need the last three years of profit and loss statements balance sheet and the year to date, statements as well. And then when I got on the phone with her bookkeeper, she had so many different hidden expenses in the profit and loss, it took about an hour to drill down to go okay, that's a that's an expense to legitimate, but it's, it would be considered personal in nature. In other words, when she goes bye, bye from the business, that expense goes bye bye. And that's what I needed to capture. Welcome to find out after $400 in annual revenues, she's bringing in about $205,000 into her pocket and only make only 4000 a month and his payroll rest of it's just legal, legitimate business expenses that she can write off as a business owner, okay, but when she goes by by all that gets added back, okay? So that's when I calculated the EBIT. Aw. And because it's an insurance company, you can times that by three or four of the top line revenue, so we're able to sell that business for about 1.2 to $1.4 million, while the investor, the guy that wants to buy it once all that break down, okay, I have to now spend two hours of my time on the phone with the dude explaining where those things are buried. When in reality, if she just had the one category set aside for business owner expenses, I would just be able to print the report and go, here you go. When it comes to printing the report for the IRS, I'm going to take that that geo code and I'm gonna hide it and it's going to go up to the next level. And that's the one I give to the IRS. Okay. So totally legal, nothing I'm saying here is a Shamy or anything, it's what is allowed as a business owner. So baseline, always measure your baseline every single quarter if you keep track of these numbers, you track these things, okay? And you measure them but is measured will improve. Okay? And the numbers are what they are don't fudge them don't do anything else. Just top line revenue, cost of goods sold gross profit SG and a expenses, total net profit. Next, what I would track when it comes to baseline is how many total clients in this past quarter. Okay, break it down by revenue or client. And total number of transactions be the reason you want to do that is I can take the total revenue, I can divide it by the number of transactions and I can get my average transaction amount. I'm going to show you what to do with that here in a minute because once I know that number, right, I now can plan and increase that number but if I don't know the number very makes it very difficult to plan. Next is how many new clients in this past quarter meaning they were not clients of yours before. Again, we're going to break it down by revenue and total number of transactions This is very helpful in the MSP sales space. Okay, it's very helpful even in the real estate space because of the number zero, the number zero. But here's the deal. Whatever the number is, we can net we now know what the number is, right? We can we can set goals now. Okay? And so how many returning? or recurring clients? Right? Yeah, revenue Total Transactions put this calculator in place you can you can always do this on a report in QuickBooks or you can just print it. Okay. How many new client appointments are actually not you sale appointments? Meaning Did you run? Okay, me? Went there. I might have this might have been my first appointment, it might have been my fifth appointment. We're only going to count the appointment where I presented. I asked them to buy and they got an opportunity to say yes or no. And that number is is very, very important. Okay. Lastly, or maybe Lastly, depends on your business is Ada base inventory the number of suspects you need, I haven't contacted them. I don't know if they're qualified for me. So now in queue L which stands for marketing qualified leads have a suspect I qualified them. They they have identified that I should market to them. Okay. They subscribed to my newsletter, they they went through a funnel. They I talked to them on the phone. I said, okay, yes, they are qualified, they fit my target. Okay. Next is going to be SQL, which is sales qualified. Leads. Marketing has done their part. They said yes. They're interested in having a conversation with you, Jack. Yes, they are interested in having a conversation with you visa. Now they are a sales qualified lead, we're handing them off from marketing to sales. Okay. So prospects, I contacted them, I'm in sales, I contacted them, we set our initial appointment, they are now in my proposal pipeline, okay. And why it's past clients? And bosses, okay, those are all eight different tags, or eight different categories, I would segment your database into you can have all kinds of other stuff. But once you have these tags in place over time, this I'm going to be selling my clients database for it's going to be about $450,000 of the transaction. Okay, because she has it segmented properly. And it's because value your database, no matter what industry, you're in 20 years from now, 30 years from now, whether you're employed for somebody or you're not, okay. Your personal database is one of the most valuable assets you have in this lifetime in the world when it comes to business. Okay. I wished I would have learned this lesson prior to 2012. The Garrick law firm pounding this into my head to realize the value of a contract. Because there are people in my database. If I launch a new product or service, or Jack calls me up and says, Hey, who do you have? That would be a candidate for my services. All I got to do is go to my database and I can instantly give him probably 50 to 60 contacts. And he said because she's in real estate, because the person in my little tip group is in real estate and she won't call me up and she won't say hey, let's go to lunch. I'm buying, let's go to coffee. I'm buying, I want to sit down and talk to you about your database. John, if she did that, and I gave her the strategy, if she did that, she would walk away from every sit down with me with 10 referrals every single freaking time like clockwork. Okay, and they wouldn't be like, Oh, I think they might be interested in your services. Now, it'd be 10 people, you call them say, Hey, man, John Pyron told me to call you, I'm a real estate person. You know, he tells me that you're a good person, he wants me they wanted to introduce me to you. Now, I always go beyond that I was make a call myself and set you up. But that's the reason you want to have a database that segment because I used to do nothing but train realtors, and mortgage people. And I have a massive network. And it's all segmented out. And, you know, that's what you want, because you become a valuable resource for somebody. Okay? So when it comes to baseline, these are some of the things that you want to measure. And then you pick the other stuff you can put in here health, you can put in there, like I'm having a sit down with my own wife this afternoon. 530 Okay. 430 Okay. So, and I'm basically running this, we run this strategy, we're gonna run it on our marriage, our health, our fitness, our finance, our relationship, our kids. And we're gonna go, okay. And we do over the last three months. What are our goals for the next three months? But if we don't measure it? Now, I mean, we might need some counseling after today. No, I'm just kidding. But you know, but at the end of the day, we want to go into this next quarter, knowing exactly what we're going to do and what our goals are. Because life becomes more fun when you're consistently hitting your goals and objectives. What strategies were used this last quarter, right? So baseline, right, so let's just pick money, let's just say we're going to target money. And this is a strategy. So I just want to go over the strategy, and then we're going to open it up for q&a. Okay. So let's just say you did $15,000 In total revenue over this last three months. Okay, so the baseline is 15,000. Part of that baseline is okay, how much cost of goods sold? were associated with that, and how much was the profit? How much was were my expenses? How much was my net profit? How many total clients all these questions? Okay, if I have the answer these questions, great. If not, and I want to, if you want to do the work fine. Okay. But if you start tracking this going forward, when the next quarter comes around, you will have the numbers if you want to be ambitious, and go back and recreate the wheel, knock yourself out. Okay? But we're gonna measure what is the baseline, what worked, what did not work? Then we're gonna go into the rest of this, this questionnaire here, key facts, it breaks it down. Okay, year to date, revenues. How much of an increase over last quarter operating expenses? How much of an increase or decrease over last quarter EBIT? Ah, how much of an increase or decrease over the last quarter? How much cash? Okay, if I'm doing if I'm like, in Jack's type of business where I have accrual based accounting, I probably do my taxes on cash base. Okay. I want to know, how many cash transactions income expense and net operating income happened over this last quarter and on the accrual as well? What were the key issues that I faced over this last quarter? I want to update all my business objectives for that I have for the year. Where am I at year today? We're finishing up in July. So if I have a revenue number, I'm going to divide that by seven. That's my average monthly revenue, I'm going to times that by five more months. And that's if I don't do anything different. That's where I'm probably going to end up by the end of the year. Strategies, what were the strategies that you actually used in this last quarter? And be honest, man, if you didn't use a strategy? If you can't say, Hey, man, I did whatever it takes with that strategy. Don't just don't lie to yourself. Just say, I didn't even freaking try. That'll be fun. While I was doing a mastermind group, we had a green red and green yellow red. Green means I knocked it out of the park. I use the strategy freaking rock and roll. Yellow means that kind of used it but it didn't quite get it done. Red means I didn't even try. know if there was objectives that are looking at my forward looking metrics is what is my strength or strategy for the next year. Now I know what my baseline is. What are some things I can add to my baseline or subtract or modifying improve? Because all I'm going to do is I'm going to keep doing the same thing I've been doing because it gives me a result. Add modifier some tracks to my baseline going into the quarter. What were my major wins or losses for the quarter? Okay, notable items in the in the quarter pipeline, new clients prospects, etc. That's that listing at a time. Okay. What were the results of this quarter? What were the top three or four goals for the quarter? Where do you need help? Your leadership plan? Thank you And here we're going to upload a leadership plan. It's not in here. But I will we're I will upload it in here. It's a life plan, leadership plan life plan. I'll put it in here legacy plan I'll put in here as well. We'll evaluate your personal life. Okay, your work life balance, or the market conditions and trends right now? What are the conditions of the market? Okay. These are all things to look at when you're looking at you're planning out your quarter. You want to look at okay, what can I set as a goal for this next quarter? What is my top line revenues are going to going to be let's talk about business because all the other stuff is personal. Once you know this, these results of this past quarter. All these results right here from top line revenue all the way down. Then it becomes Okay, what do I want those numbers to look like? Three months from now. And so it's August. So September, October, November is the 30th, I believe is going to be a Monday. And that's going to be the fifth Monday. So those are the things stop sharing here real quick. I'm gonna go and verify that between now and November 30. No, that is incorrect. between now and October 30. August, September, October, yeah. Okay, so between now and October 30 is the next time you do this. So if you just put these things in place right now, and you measure them between now and the end of October. The nice thing is you're going to have things that you have measured. Don't allow us to set your 2024 plan a lot more accurate. Okay, because you're gonna have actual numbers. All right. So that's the lesson for today is to go through the quarterly business, review your baseline, dialed in your database updated and set your targets for the next quarter. And bring those things to the next meeting if you want or don't come to me via email and go here's my goals. Here's what I expect for the next quarter if you want me to give you some feedback on that, right. I'm gonna open it up real quick. Any questions about this first? And if not, then is there something that you would like to get dive into on this week's call? With Lisa I don't have any questions. I was just getting ready to speak No, I don't have any questions. Anything that you would like some feedback or help on today? Yeah, I have a bunch of stuff. I don't really even know where to start. Yeah, good. Yeah. So yeah, I'm taking my business kind of like on my own leaving REMAX. And so I have, you know, like when I started with my, with my, you know, II and Oh, my file system, all that kind of stuff. Alright. So are you looking to using their database right now? Obviously. Well, their file system Yeah. Your file system, their database, etc? Because you're at a broker's place, right? And you're gonna be a broker yourself? Yes. gratulations thanks. All the paperwork, you're, you're a broker now. Well, I've been a broker, but I just haven't started my own business. My license has always been a broker. Not always, you know, eight years of the 20. Yeah. Got it. And so what? So this is something that you're, you're at a point where you're considering going out on your own You're gonna run your own show. And the question is, okay, where do you start? Yeah, that's what I'm hearing. Yeah. And, and so I would say it starts with a one page plan. And treat it as it's not going to be much different than what you already have just that there's certain eyes that need to be dotted, and t's that need to be crossed when you're going to go out on your own. And looking at it and making sure that you're making the move at the right time. And that you're teed up and set up for success, right? Because you look at okay, what do I have by having my license with REMAX or it can be with you know, exp can be with whatever, right? Just use where you're at, okay? Because I have my license with REMAX, here's what I get. I pull my license, and I hang my own shingle. Okay, what am I not going to get? Thank you, what am I now going to have to figure out and once you have that list down, then and you have your one page plan, then you can either bring it to this call, we can strategize on that here. Or you can do a one on one strategy session with me if you want. And I will walk you through step by step exactly what you need. So but congratulations, that's a big step. A lot of freedom associated with that, and a lot of maneuvers you can make that are a lot more freedom, that's for sure. And you close a whole lot more deals and a whole lot more transactions. So one of the quickest way is I will go back and evaluate because you can pull this list go back and evaluate all the deals that you brought in and closed over the last three years. And list them all out. And then look could I have done these deals without REMAX? And, and you know, being a part of REMAX of that influence are closing these deals and put a checkbox next to the ones that probably could not have done it without that. You'll be able to do the math on that and go, Okay, why? Let's just say there's four deals that you really got, because you're a REMAX realtor. What can you do to make up for that? So just knowing the numbers and everything. I know personally a lot of mortgage brokers that I helped fire their broker very successful. But that was that was a you went from I have nothing and not sure where to start. That's great. That's exciting. That's fun stuff to share on these calls. Thank you. I had a real estate question for you. And I don't know where to start with this one either. So I'm just gonna fire from the hip here. So if someone is let's say if someone's quarter, for whatever level of it. Now I'm asking for a friend of a friend or a friend at this point, we'll call them like six degrees of separation from actually I've never seen the house. But they said hey, listen to me. That talks like that. But it's actually them. Yeah. Very close. You know, it's, it's funny. My so my dad, my dad was awful about this. And my mom was laughing with me that the other day she goes, Thank God you didn't get that gene, but your brother definitely did. And it's not for him. It's for someone else though. That's not directly family, but my dad absolutely was. And my brother 1,000% is a hoarder. And I'm like, I don't know how you live like this. So either follow suit or swing the other way. I'm like, I throw out stuff all the time. My wife's like, I look at my closet. And I'm like, I should probably donate clothes again. She's like, What are you going to wear my Kayani like three shirts. I have all my work shirts. And then what? What do I need stuff to work out and that's it. We'll need other clothes. So I'm trying to figure out more about the situation because there might be an opportunity for someone else but they said, you know, the house isn't really something that really staged the person has too much stuff in the way and I kind of want to be like now I've seen real bad hoarders and I've seen okay, this is a mess. But what would you say? What would you suggest to someone to make it so if they want to present the house like that because it's too much house they need to get out of? Do they need that? Does it need to get cleaned up first like You can't show it without that, or where would someone start on something like that? Speaking of not knowing where to start, I don't want to, right. So you're saying this person lives in the house and they don't stand a chance for them. They're they're having trouble keeping up on the bills, you know, was good back in the day. It's it's the house that she raised her kids and her husband passed away years ago. So now it's just one woman and her house is too big and she's retired, doesn't have money and still has, I think 100,000 Maybe less that that they owe on the house. And as I actually said, it's probably and I told my sister, because she's already told my story, this person, it's probably a great time for them to try and sell. But the problem is they have a lot of stuff. And I'm like, What's a lot of stuff like jackets everywhere? And I said, Okay, well, that's probably more of a challenge, because it's devaluing what you're showing, to some extent, right? Because you can't truly show an empty room. If say, Hey, if you just imagine all these clothes aren't here, this dresser. And you're like, but I thought this was the dining room? You're like, yeah, yeah. And I've seen some horrible situations. Where would you tell someone like that's a start? Well, I just noticed people who are hoarders really have a lot of emotional attachment to their stuff. And what when they're really ready to sell my measuring stick is, are you ready to move. So I would say move out and have the place clean as if your house has already sold. You know, that's the only way you can get the potential of looking at the house like you know, people coming in and take a look at the house and they were able to see it would none of her stuff there. Because if any of her personal item is there, people wouldn't give his full value because they can't imagine themselves in the house. And that's the biggest price tag is if somebody is able to imagine themselves in that house. Yep. That's kind of why I was thinking somewhere along those lines. I'm a little again, I'm very minimalistic. And I said so I'm going through something halfway similar right now. I'm moving into my in laws house. So when they're not looking good, we're gonna move in with my mother in law because my father in law's health isn't isn't great. So he's not able to medically probably never going to be able to come home. So clearing up stuff I'm like, I told my wife I said, Hey, I'm sorry, if I come off as instead of consensus provide my thoughts always, well, if you don't need it brought the eff out. Like we had we did a VA donation. So we didn't just like throw stuff out. And you know, try to be like, but I can't say I'm always more sensitive with this stuff. Because I've grown up just my dad owned 10 property. So when someone wasn't in the property, it wasn't emotional. It was objective, it was this this space needs to be empty, pulled the dump trailers, let me rip out what I need to rip out. But I never was connected to the person then. There was never so I try to be 1% more thoughtful. Someone I can actually still talk to someone. We're going through the same thing in my house. My father in law just moved out from you know, our house. And so we're decluttering my husband throws away everything he does his favorite things to do is go throw stuff away. The one thing I want some I kept my dad's wallet and wedding ring. It's only things I want it so my wedding ring was my dad's wedding ring. I didn't want anything else in the Kipper. Like, do you want this? I'm like, I have my dad's Michigan State jacket. And they're like, do you want this? I'm like, No, I didn't go there. I don't want this jacket. Throw it out. But he went there. It's like, yeah, he went there decades ago. That's great. It was nice. Yeah, I'm never going to where it doesn't fit me and I never went there. Yeah, so yeah, I have like, I don't know how many pieces of paper across my desk right now to because after our conversation the other day, John, I hit the ground running. Especially with some of the power partners I'm sitting down with. I also have like, I have a cyber insurance quote, I'm holding in my back pocket that for both those people that I want to sit down with tomorrow stuff to cyber insurance companies that, hey, listen, I've got some officers looking for this quote, you know, but, you know, I've given you a couple of quotes now at this point. And I've given them to more than one person sometimes I'll say, Hey, listen, John, let me introduce you to two people. And you can see who fits better for personality and coverage for you. Because I know that's important when it comes to the insurance too, because I've had people have had different experiences with that. And I do those one or two things. So if I have two people that I've worked with, and they've both done a good job. I even let the client know like Hey, I use this one like for websites they use one person who actually helps me with my nonprofit. And I have another one who does he's a more complete shop. He does the social media that on top of this the website SEO. So I say Well, which one do you need? This one's more I'd say inexpensive but not cheap and quality, but does less things. Here's a more complete thing. You can still get whatever you need, which one fits and I'll let you when you pull for them, so I've used them both. But with the cyber insurance, you know, I haven't seen reciprocation for those two. So when a meeting, actually the two of them tomorrow, I'm going to hold that that client that needs a quote in my back pocket, as I'm gonna be with a lot of the surveillance because I'm just kind of like people auditing their auto insurance, cyber insurance is getting out of control. I mean, our MSPs feels like we're taking on an extra salary per year, just just for our cyber insurance, it's 10s, if you want to throw numbers, see how much that is like, what are we talking about? It, I would say, by the end of the year, because we also our insurance is always higher, because we have to account for all of our endpoints, all the other things by by proxy of what we're connected to. So we're just looking to change our insurance to one an insurance through a company called Casaya, which is probably my my arch nemesis at this point, but they're the necessary evil in my life. But our insurance is dropping down to about I think $17,000 a year, but it was it was probably almost double or triple that actually was almost triple that. So so when you're when you're paying, you know, again, another person's salary, just an insurance just to do that, you have to think about that, like we're talking about all these costs here. You know, that's, that's somebody who's think for the business too, and not for any benefit, or additional coverage. And they're always reasonably qualified for this other program is, a lot of the solutions we bought, that we use. There's a company called Datto, which we absolutely love to say it was a company that had a breach three, four years ago. But what they did is they instead started to buy up competition, because they had so much money, they actually like the Miami Heat plays at the Casaya center. So they now own the company that we use, and we're like, oh, we thought we got away from just like, I know, you said connect wise actually have my little coffee cup here. So this is their network assessment tool. So also, they know I live off coffee, like most people know that about me. So yeah, that's one real quick before we should move on to that. Denise, is there anything else on your side that you want to talk about as far as what to do? This calendar quarter? Um, no, I mean, I yeah, I think I pretty much you know, kind of got it i It's like a similar system that I was taught before used. So let's do a one page plan. Part of the one page planning process is you're gonna list there will be a list of all the things that you need to get done. That will be a part of that plan. And then we can review it and see what help you need and just rock and roll. Yeah, there you go. And then Jack, what's on your mind man? I do like that list though. Talking about the so the Automate delegate and whatever. Really, those are the two main things or if I'm still doing it myself, automate delegate or outsource. Yep. Or is this this network partner concerned? You're familiar with the poi strategy that I've shared and taught. Right. And, and so part of that whole process is betting that person in the very beginning I give them the lead for referral. And I want to circle back and see how that referral went. And if it went well, I call personally referred them too and vice versa. But if they don't refer me somebody in return, that is part of my next conversation with and conversation kind of goes like this. It's like I wrote you know, if I was I had referred you if you and I Jack had agreed to become a POA. Right. And, you know, I did my part I refer somebody to you walk them through the process and give him a quote proposal and and here we are, we're at the agreed and agreed upon follow up time. That so it's a, it's a sandwich approach. It's very easy. And I just say, Hey, I just talked to my client a couple of days ago and the one I referred you to and he said he really enjoyed how you engaged with them. enjoyed walking through the process. I understand he didn't buy but he is considering you in the future. But the thing I liked about what he shared with music you were Professional, you contacted him you did every single thing that you said you were gonna do. And so he needed a great big thumbs up. So any feedback that you like how I referred you? Yeah, I like how you proved me right when antastic Alright, let's talk about the referral that you were that you committed to give to me. Now shut up. Let's talk about that referral that you're gonna give me. And it's a very awkward silence. Oh, yeah, shit, I've totally forgot that I was supposed to give you some money. So I go, Yeah, go ahead. I want to I know, we only have a couple minutes here. I want to ask one question about also, like I said, I'll stay on as long as you need me to go for it. I think we have our office meeting in four minutes if they're holding too because we pushed it back because I said I was on here till at least 230. Did you ever find benefit in cross training or visiting other MSPs or visiting people that are in your industry? Or is it just from networking events and other things that you continue to grow and train and hone your skills? So I have a couple that I liked that are friendly that I thought about visiting? Some might not necessarily be in the state. But I want to see that I want to see the $10 million MSP and how they operate. Absolutely, man. If they got no issues and they play nice in the sandbox and I would say go for it. Are you a part of the IT MSP users group on Facebook? No. So I see it and MSP Business Owners Group Okay. So let me invite you to it real quick. 20,000 members doesn't invite funniest one I'm in is called a tech degenerates I got invited to I thought was the funniest thing. So it was the inner circle of the people from that. That it somewhere I was at. But my God, they text like a teenager who just figured out how to use a cell phone it is I haven't looked at it. And since it's been seven days since I've looked at it, there's 2000 messages in it. So that's one I want to be a part of ever back when I had an IT company the other one is it and MSP marketing with my buddy Chris Weiser one of the top marketers in Yeah, he actually archive this group and now it's the ITM MSP business owners group. Okay, that's the new group. But yeah, I mean, he Yeah, yeah, that's right. He, he archive it is created this group. So this group 1000 people. And there are people in here that have 25 $30 million IT companies and there's people here in startup. So and just follow the rules group. Chris is an amazing guy. If you want to meet the guy got a small number. He's a good friend of mine. I'll probably take you up on that. Because I think one thing I learned was there's the old one of my favorite lines is the older I get, the less I know. And I think it's a it's a phrase that served me well, knowing that there's a lot of people out there that know a lot more than I do. And the more I open up and to learn from people, I like to be also a jack of most and master of none. As I know there's always someone who is a specialty and an expert in any given field. So I think my competitive advantage this is the Steve Jobs effect of knowing that I don't have to be the smartest guy in the room. It's sociation reading and audios and videos and if you manage those three things, always socially with people that are better than you you'll you'll always grow so I know you gotta run and you have people looking at you probably beating down your door when you're going to join the meeting. So feel free to jump off if you need to. And but Lisa, you got any more stuff you want to talk about? Are you good to go for today? Um Thank you guys. I probably want to pick up a couple of things. Sure. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, so um what your ex wife or something will in? Yeah, so do you want me to keep the recording going? Or do you want me to stop recording is just a conversation between us? Yeah, just stop the recording is conversation between you and I Okay all right yeah

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to the art of photography podcast with Stanley Aryanto. This week we welcome a celebrity photographer all the way from LA.  Walid Azami is a photographer & video director based in Los Angeles, California. Originally from Kabul, Afghanistan. He has worked with people you may recognize like Jennifer Lopez, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Ricky Martin, Mary J Blige, Wendy Williams, Bernie Sanders, and many more. His work has been featured in magazines such as Rolling Stone, Glamour, Allure, and Teen Vogue. He's known for holding the client's hands through the entire time, creating dramatic images, and evolving the experience and creative process for everyone on set. He invests his time empowering the community of photographers, creatives, and visual artists with amazing business/life advice through his platform.  Platform: Website: https://www.walidazami.com/ Blog: https://photographybusinesscourse.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/walid.azami/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/WalidAzamiTV  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------ Transcription: Walid Azami  0:00   value yourself. Because without your work, you can't launch pretty much any industry without the work of a photographer. Without a photographer capturing those, the community will never know who you are what the food looks like, that's photography, that is the value of what we do. Now, we, you need to charge for that, because what you're doing is they're not doing you a favour by calling you you're doing them a favour by lending your talent. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:37   Welcome to the Art of Photography podcast, how are you? Walid Azami  1:43   I'm good. Thank you so much for having me that I have really appreciate it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:47   Yeah, no, it's, you know, I love you get in touch and I look at your prom, your profile your portfolio, and I was just intrigued. So it's a lot of my audience, or a lot of my guests are, you know, from the travel landscape, and I have a few people from portrait, but you know, never from the celebrity niche. So this is really exciting for me, I never, you know, know what's going on in there. So I have a whole lot of questions for you. Walid Azami  2:15   Awesome, awesome. Well, hopefully they accept it. And I know that they will. But like, you know, it's something new for the photographers that are accustomed to hearing your podcast. So, you know, maybe maybe we'll all learn a little bit Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:27   100% 100% I mean, you know, me myself, I do a whole lot of genre of photography. And I know there are a lot of landscape photographers out there who also love doing portraits, fashion and so forth, right. But we just have like the main thing, which was, you know, landscape or astral photography. So, this definitely will apply to everyone. But before we get started, give us a little bit introduction about who you are, what's your background, and you know, just a little bit about how the audience can get to know you better. Walid Azami  3:02   Sure, I'd be happy to thank you. I'm number one, my name is Walid Asami. So I'm in Los Angeles. And, as you mentioned, yeah, I do a lot of celebrity, but I also do a lot of commercials and big brands, domestic and international. And I've also started to branch out to directing music videos and commercials, and now creative directing, too, and then also mentoring photographers in their careers. And I'm very interested in landscape photography for what that's worth too. But I've been shooting for maybe about 12 years. And it's been a very rough road. I think, like most photographers listening to this podcast, but I just, you know, my goal has been for the past six years, still continuing my photography career, but then really designating a big chunk of that, I would say, almost like a third of my energy into making sure my peers do well, too. And whether it's from my mistakes, or my big accomplishments, I think there's something that I can teach people and make sure that nobody ever takes advantage of photographers, and that they do well, and that they get the compensation that they deserve to. So that's pretty much a little bit of a lowdown on me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:16   That's incredible. Yeah, that's love to hear that, you know, I think, you know, as a photographer, it's really important to, or as an artist, I shouldn't say photographer, because this apply kind of on the board is that we are we are stamped with this notion that you know, it's we can't make money from photography and you know, it doesn't produce it doesn't make a living basically, you know, like the starving artist mentality. And we know that it's not true. Because you know, like, there are so many different photographers already have made it and there is a lot of mentality I think behind that. So I was curious, are you were you I'm born in grew up in LA itself, or what's a little bit of your personal background? Walid Azami  5:08   Um, no, definitely not raised? Well, I guess somewhat raised in LA. But I was born in Kabul, Afghanistan. So I'm a total war baby. And that sense, refugee, and America never took a photo class in my life. Never ever, like not even one class. One time, actually. I did at the junior college, take, like, try to take an intro to photo class, but I'm on week number two, I quit. Because the way that they were moving at that speed, and I just thought was like, Oh, my God, you want to tell me about the history of this. I just want to know how to do it. And so I just didn't show up anymore. Terrible student in that way. But yeah, that's my background. So I didn't come from a family that had photography and its blood, I didn't have any special connections. Just a lot of hard work some luck, and lots of hard work again. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:05   That's incredible. And so what did you you What did you study in, in, in college or university? Where did you get into or you ever go into college and university or you just throw yourself through into photography right away? Walid Azami  6:20   No, I was going to actually become a teacher. And not because I really, really wanted to be a teacher, I actually think it's the most important job in the world I really do. Besides being a good parent, is that but my mom was a teacher, my aunts were a teacher, my grandfather was a teacher. So really, that does run in my blood. And I think that was the most, at least on paper, like the most free job like the freeing, liberated, independent job, it's really not these poor teachers, they have to work, especially in America, it's really hard for teachers. But my, my, I was a history major. And then my specialty was the Israeli Palestinian conflict. So I just became obsessed with that story, and really dug deep into that one. And then after that, I ended up working with Madonna right afterwards, completely different 180 degrees. But I will say, though, that my history was what really helped me excel in that office, because Madonna would be, hey, we need we need to research this one thing for the World Tour. And people could not research. I don't know why people couldn't research and I was like, just wait, just wait, I'm about to kill you guys with like, the 17 books I pull because of this, you know, so it helped me in that sense. But no, I never study photo, that is incredible kind of fall in my lap. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:51   What is story? You know, I think this is what, actually, you know, just the other weekend, we went for a catch up with a few friends. And he mentioned this notion that, you know, everything we do in life is an admin at administration to get to what we want to achieve. And this is exactly it, right? A lot of people nowadays, especially with the instant gratification, we we don't want to put into work, we don't want to do this admin and we just wanting to get the result. But without this administration work, you're never gonna get there because you won't have enough information knowledge. And this is a really good, great demonstration of the day just show that you know, you the the study that you did have nothing to do with photography, but yet, it is what opened you to the world of photography. Now. I'm quite interested. How did you come across Madonna though, like, you know, like the teachers? Were you working for her? Or you know that because that's a pretty different niche. Right. So that's interesting to hear. Walid Azami  9:02   Yeah, I know. And I know that when I say that a lot of people are like, Well, great. Somebody, somebody just opened the door for him and and lucky kid at the time, and you know, and life was just easy. It actually wasn't easy. And here's the thing is that now I had, and I still do a small list of people that I really wanted to work with. One was like director, documentary director, Michael Moore. Another was Bill Clinton. Not not not anymore, though. But just like at the time, it was important that was like, I really want to work with this guy, because I thought he was going to make a lot of positive change and everything. And there was some other people too on that list. But on that list was Madonna. And why I really, really liked her as because visually, I was a fan of every single person that she ever brought on her team. And I watched because if you think about you know her age Now watch the world likes to make a really big deal out of her age. But the last I don't know, like 40 Somethings, 30 Somethings, 20 Somethings, 50 something, even 60 something, they all have a significant part of those younger years, with her being the soundtrack, Michael Jackson, you know what I mean? Like you to some of these people. So I had a chance to really watch her, break the mould and everything. But all that to say that she was always on my list of people that I wanted to work with. And I am I will say that of course, I worked really, really hard. My parents taught me a lot of hard work and honest hard work. But I also very, very much subscribe to manifestation and law of attraction. And so I, you know, I Okay, I'll say this, socially, I'm supposed to say, Oh, my God, it was such a surprise. But it wasn't. And neither was like, some of the other people that I work with because I, I am such a good manifester that, I don't know, I've always just knew is going to happen. Is that crazy, but it's just how that happened. And it's not just Madonna, it was like, Bernie Sanders was like that, like, Jennifer Lopez was another one. Like, it doesn't have to be like a long time being it's like I really, really focused on it. I mean, where is my, it's not here at my desk right now. But I I journal, like, several times a week, like a script. And I kind of write like a make believe of things that in this world that hasn't happened yet, but I believe that they've happened like in a parallel universe. And I, so I always played with manifestation. So so she was on that list. That's a very long answer, but I'm sticking with it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:55   No, that's incredible. I love that. And it's, it's a couple of things that I have a question with, based on what you're told me is the first, you know, you have a list of people that you want to work with. And I was, I'd love to know, what makes you what makes them to be on your list, what make you want to work with, you know, work with them, basically. Walid Azami  12:23   No one's ever asked me that question before. So thank you. And I never even thought about that, really, until you just asked that question. I really admire people that want to change the world, even if they've negatively accidentally made like a really, but people that impact like, that's one thing to be on stage and to go, Oh, look at me with beautiful lights and beautiful costumes and all that. But it's another but how many artists do that now. I mean, there's a lot of artists that have incredible shows. But how many of them change culture. And I don't think any of them really have changed culture in that capacity. Michael Jackson will be another one. You know, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, these people change culture globally. And so that I admire that like some of the people that I've worked with, like Bob Proctor is an author, he's become like the father of like law of attraction, he changed the way and entire culture, he introduced law of attraction to so many people, now, the world is catching on to it, at least the Western world finally is catching up to so to me, anyone that wants to change, make an impact, I'm always going to be a huge fan. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:37   That is incredible. You know, I think I'm a big, big believer on purpose in life and finding that you know, the purpose and not just, I mean, it's also important to do stuff that, you know, just doesn't have purpose. But at the end of the day, you know, we want to look back at our life and see what we've done, you know, how far we make a change, whether it's true, the smallest thing, you know, in our life, or the bigger thing, but you know, that what you've done is very important, right? Being able to push that positivity to the world. And basically, you know, expose them to your photography and the way you story child to that. So that's incredible. Thanks for sharing that. Walid Azami  14:24   Thank you for asking that. I think even you know, like, if I can just even add to that. It's like, yeah, it doesn't have to be celebrity doesn't have to be like a big, big author. It could be like, for example, you have large part of your audiences, like they're landscape photographers, but if you are exposing that landscape to the world, and you're able to show the beauty of a place that people normally may not have thought about, that's like a huge service, they think you've added to mankind Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:51   100% And you know, like it's, one of the things that I do in this podcast is not having people that have big followers or You know, like they are famous, but also people who just have really get great inspiring stories. And like you say, that's really important to like, just spotlight them right. Now, the second question that I have based on your previous answer was like, it's really interesting how you brought up manifesting and journaling and all this stuff, right? And I know there's a lot of people out there that literally it's like, you know, this is this is, you know, a bullshit basically is like, Oh, I've been doing this forever. I say, it's like, I want to get rich, I want to get rich, I want to get rich. But yeah, here, I am still not selling a single print. Right? So, right, give us a little bit insight of how you manifest and how you manifests in a way that you can actually make what you've think about or what you've manifested, come through. Walid Azami  15:58   Give me Give me an example of that. Or, like, oh, do I do it? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:02   A little bit of both, as I suppose you can give a little bit example, or actually give us? Yeah, just like how, like, how do you do it? What's the difference between those people whose who have manifested, but haven't made things come through from their manifestation? Walid Azami  16:20   Sure, um, well, I think that what it is, is that I'll start off by by saying this, there is something bigger than us. And it doesn't matter what you believe in what religion or if you don't have a religion, there just has to be something bigger than you. And that's where I really, I just hope that everyone that is listening to this podcast, is like, they believe there's nothing whether you call it God or energy, or Buddha or Allah or Mother Nature, whatever it might be. So there's something running this whole show. But the other thing too, is I don't have a course I don't have a book, I don't have an ebook. I don't have a workshop and manifestation. So when I see this, there is no gain for me. But just to see our hopefully, one day see how it benefited someone's life, if they've, you know, heard it. So much of my success has come from Law of Attraction manifestation, they kind of overlap, a way that it's about feeling. That's the biggest thing. So I used to be one of the worst students you will ever meet. But I was one of the best daydreamers in class, I would sit there, and just daydream. But what I didn't know is that as a student in the public school system of America, I was failing, I wasn't failing, because I knew how to play the game and turn in every homework, and every extra credit and everything. I wasn't the best student, okay, but I had personality. And I would, like try to charm the teachers and everybody and just try to be funny when I could, and all that. But what I would do is spend an immense amount of time, an immense amount of time daydreaming to the point that I don't even remember sitting in the classroom. And I just was like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, I have to like now be friend a nerd. Because I didn't I have like two blank pages. And they have two full pages, front and back. Right? So and I'm like, hey, everybody come to my house this weekend. I'll get pizza, let's compare notes, you know, and try to figure this out. But in that process, I didn't know what I was doing was manifesting, I was truly feeling what it would feel like to do this. To the point to the point that one of my one of my fears, I remember consistently in high school was, okay, so if I get an award, if I get invited to an award show for a music video, and they only give me two tickets, like who am I going to invite like, I used to sit there and worry about it. And it was a really real, real fear. But I did get nominated for for Soul Train Music Video of the Year, I did only give, you know, I only had one ticket. My horrible agent at the time used it and didn't tell me about it. But that's a separate story. But it's like it comes. So true. I guess. Okay, so your listeners are like, Yeah, okay, great, great work for you. How do you do it? One thing that I do is called scripting. And scripting is like, Oh man, where's my actual journal somewhere in a bag or something? But I sit down for maybe 15 minutes, and I'll sit at a desk I'll go in a coffee shop just somewhere comfortable and I will write five things. So this is like truly Okay. Five things that I already have in my mind. I may not physically have At the moment, but it is coming for me it is coming to me. And so I'll write five things. And I will write, I'm so grateful that blank, I'm so grateful that five times, then I will take those five things. And then write almost like a like a journal like a diary, journal, one, two pages, something like that. And then I will use those five bullet points in a story as if it already happened. So for example, I might say, I'm so I'm so grateful now that I finally have the beach house that I wanted three levels on the side of a hill, not across the street, but the side with the ocean, right. And then I'll just say I have that. But for me to really believe it to really feel it. What I will do, then as all after I list those five bullet points, and I'll write like a journal. And I'll say, I'm so thankful now that I finally have my beach house that I wanted. And it's amazing. It has like the Spanish tiles that I really like, which makes it very uncomfortable in the winter, because you have to wear socks all the time inside the house. But but in the summer, it's amazing. And the only part I don't like is when my friends come over, my family comes over, and then all the footprints are there. And I have to mop it up afterwards. But I'm so thankful I've that many people in my life because we get to go downstairs down the grace steps made of wood to the ocean, and we get to swim and come back up to my house and barbecue. Like I write exact things, right. But then I'll actually I'll write those five things as if it happened that day. So I'm so thankful my parents could do it. And I'm thankful my sister brought my nieces too. And they got to, and I'll just sit there. And it's actually kind of sounds dorky, but it's actually fun for a minute, and you're just pretending you have it. And the idea is that you write it until you feel it. And then you just leave it alone. I will say I'll give you one quick example. Because I know you have other questions too, is here's an example of scripting, just one of many that have worked out for me. And the past three years, I had a job where I was photographing for a new startup clothing line. And the owner decided to decided to go to Bali, and go on vacation. And, and that's amazing, right? Amazing for you. But if you have a brand new company, why would you leave all of us alone for your first ever photoshoot? Very bad decision as a CEO, it was a disaster. The lady at his company had designer awful the the agent for the models complained and said, We never want to work with her again, the models complained, I complained the assistants all separately complaint and I told the CEO of this company, you know, I, I really like you. And if I didn't tell you everything that happened, I would never be a good person, a friend to you. And I kind of missed the beginning of the story. But the beginning of the story was basically that I wanted to still do photography, I still want to direct but I wanted to start creative directing. I wanted to work from home and I wanted to work maybe 15 or 20 hours a week. That's it. I didn't want to go to anyone's office. But I wanted people to start trusting me as a creative director, the shoot now the shooting happened in real life. It was a disaster. So I told the CEO how bad it was. And then he's like, I appreciate you telling me everyone else kind of complained and said she was awful. And then I sent him the pictures. And he called me like the next day or so. And he said, you know Walid, considering everything you said, considering everything everybody else said. These pictures are phenomenal. And you guys were up against a lot. And it's phenomenal. And I'm really curious, I have this weird idea. Just think about it. You can come back to me a different day and think about it. Would you be open to being the Creative Director for the the startup company no more than 15 or 20 hours a week and you can work from home? That right there is an example that happened within two weeks of me writing it in my journal. Now I know all your listeners at this point are like, Who is this guy? This is? This is crazy. That's like one example. That's how I do it. It's about feeling and that's like one example of it actually working. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:37   That's really cool. And I mean, I just remember I just got into Lena and this manifestation and meditation and I think the difference I mean if we take away you know, all of this spiritual aspect is it's all about making you believe in yourself. And you know, when you feel it, then you can believe that it already happened and therefore it's more likely that you will work towards, you know, I mean, a good example that I always use is like, let's say you need to get something from the grocer, and it's about to close in five minutes, and you're an hour away. You're never gonna make an attempt. Right. But if it's like five minutes away, and it's almost close, you know, in five minutes, I was like, Oh, maybe I could go really quick. Maybe I could not tell them. You know, it's that is the difference. It's the signal that telling yourself and that is, I love how you share, you know, the journaling, the scripting that is so powerful. Now, yeah, to segue back to, you know, photography. Yeah, yeah. This is really cool, right? Because most people in photography, you know, I know, like, most people gonna be like, What does manifesting have to do with photography? Most people in photography, they have some sort of goal, whether they want to make money of their photography, they want to capture, you know, a certain image. And I believe the only way to make that come true is to believe in the journey to believe in their in their self, right to believe that there is one day they will be able to get there so that they keep going. Now, that's it. I want to, I want to ask you a little bit from your experience and your journey. What are some of the hardest struggle that you have come across that almost make you give up this journey? That almost give it all away? And you know, take the easy route? And how did it all unfold for you? Hmm. Walid Azami  26:44   Well, your podcast is asking questions that generally other podcasts don't ask, which I mean that in the most complimentary way. So I appreciate that. What made me almost give up? Well, let me just be really honest. Not this past year. But there are good years and bad years. I think that a lot of times people are like, oh, did you almost give up? I almost give up three times a month. Not gonna lie to you. So if anyone's like, Oh, my gods like, so I'm not crazy. I'm not alone. Well, you were crazy, because this is what we want to do for an occupation. So there is a little bit of crazy, but it's like a fun, crazy, you know, I wanted to give it many, many times, because I think to myself, we need health care. And we need long term retirement and we need stable income. But then I also think to myself, like after you have like a mass, like you have a big win, that could be a massive job. That could be a beautiful photograph that you're just like, staring at it for a long time. The high of that. I don't do drugs. But I would imagine it's like the high that you would feel if you have a powerful drug. And then that right there pulls me right back into it. But the things that have bothered me, that have made me put the camera down, I've now decided to try to be an answer to that problem. So how people treat artists and photographers, well, no, we are photographers, artists. How people treat artists has really angered me how people treat marginalised populations. I'm sure it's like this around the world, but I just have experienced in America, they they make if you're a woman, if you're Brown, if you're black, if you're Asian, they make you feel that just having the opportunity is the paycheck don't ask for money. And so they add in their attitude and the what they say the microaggressions and everything. So for me, it was like okay, well, instead of giving up what a giant waste of my experience, what a slap in the face to all of the hard work that I've done. So why don't I try to be the anti everything that made me put my camera down, you know, because I did for eight months. I did stop photography. I did open a studio and I was like, Well, I guess this is it, you know, like, be thankful for what you've done. But you guys, it's not easy. If it was easy, every single person will be doing it. Who doesn't want to take photos and have people say oh my god, I love the way you see. It's incredibly special. Or, you know, or who you happen to be stumbling on this podcast or this particular episode and you're a filmmaker or you're a writer or what have you. Like it's an immense privilege to have people you know love the way you think. What was the exact question was how do I give up or did I ever think about giving up or none of those Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:43   so what you know like what what was the moment and how you get out of it? Walid Azami  29:48   Hmm. anger anger pulled me out. So for me, the anger was after eight months of putting my camera down and and manifesting nation. Okay, so here's, this is gonna take a little bit, but I promise listeners, it's worth it. Okay, so anger got me really upset when I said, Okay, enough is enough. And I'm going to make sure that I use my experience to help other people. So I started, what at the time, it was called How to photograph. Now it's called Walid Asami, on Instagram. And I was anonymously, helping photographers with tips and suggestions and pricing and marketing and copyrights, and lighting and editing, and all those different things. And I just was like, you know, what's going to happen, no one's going to take advantage of any of these other people. And I'm going to use that experience of the bad in the good. And then that account grew. Now we're like a 50, something 1000. And it grew and grew and grew, because people are like, what is this because it's like, legitimate information that's really helping people do better. And now my name is attached to it, just because it's easier, you know, and I want people to know, who I am and, and reference my work, you know, to weigh it against the advice. So it was one way that I beat it was just saying, you know, what, I'll show you, I'll show these record labels that no one can take advantage of photographers anymore. Also, these big corporate companies that you can't just bulldoze over people. And I'm going to make sure that I give my community the tools that they need so that they know how to get out of your name and get out of the way the punch back basically. So I've I have tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of screen captures that people are like thank you so much. Because of you have gone full time because of you, I was able to stop a situation. But the manifestation one, here's a, is it. Okay? If I go into one more example of that, because I want to give this gentleman Yeah, radish, who's no longer with us. But if you've ever seen the DVD, the movie, The Secret or read the book, The Secret by Rhonda burns, the movie is opened by a gentleman by the name of Bob Proctor. Bob Proctor is like the they consider like the father of law of attraction. And I was in my studio when I told you I was in my studios, it was rather large. And I I I had given up photography and the studio was the attic of an old grocery store. So me, I'm watching YouTube, and I'm like how to apply drywall. Okay, and I would just do it, how to fix electrical and I would do it how to fix plumbing and I learned everything off of YouTube. And then nobody really helped me and I was like, I stopped in the middle of all this. And I had to move into the studio because I put all my money into helping my family and I also got rid of my apartment so I can move in and invest in this business. And there were like boxes and boxes and boxes in there. And let me tell you real fast. When it was cold, it was colder in that studio. When it was hot. It was hotter in that studio. Okay, there was no installation, nothing. I don't know what I was thinking, but I did it. And so I was looking. I was looking at these boxes, all my personal belongings and I was like, I need to find the DVD for the secret. I just know there's a message in there for me. I know there's a message in there. And I don't know don't ask me why didn't decide to YouTube the video, it didn't cross my mind. I needed to find the DVD, okay, and then find my DVD player in one of those boxes. And I couldn't find it. And for three days I searched. I really really searched through everything that Mike who was here, you know when something is right there and you're like I saw it just like a week ago now I can't find it. And I gave up and I was like forget it. Just continue building the studio. So you can open this up and start making money. But that's what happens with manifestation you have to want something so bad. And then you have to let it go and release it. You know, and I did but I wasn't trying to manifest it. I was like frantically like it was literally a man at his wit's end. And, and, and I finally found it, or excuse me, I didn't find that I finally gave up when I couldn't find it. That day that I gave up. It was either later that day, or immediately the next day my phone rang. And it was a girl. Her name is Lisa. And Lisa said hi is Waleed there. First of all, I'm very private about my number. And and I was like yes, and she's like Hi, my name is Lisa. I got your number from another mutual friend of ours, and I've been looking for your information. I just found that we have a mutual friend. My boss needs new photos for new book new projects new everything. my boss's name is Bob Proctor. I didn't even know Bob Proctor knew I existed in this planet. Okay, or on this planet. I didn't Not No. Like, I had no connection to this man. And so, in the midst of all this, my students almost getting done. I was like, what I was just looking for his footage. And now his office calls me. And they're based in Arizona. And when he came, I told my producer, Matt, I was like, go all out all out, like make him feel like a king, take out of my money, take out of any department money, make sure there's beautiful flowers and like desserts and like just a beautiful thing, because I just, I was so nervous about this. And Bob came, so we shot some stuff. And the pictures are still being used. And they're widely used still. And I was by the window of the, and maybe Isabelle, my assistant can send these photos, I'll give her these photos to you. But I was by the window. And Bob and his partner, Sandy Gallagher, were in the hair makeup studio. And I was just by myself setting up the next shot. And Bob is a very airy, light, little walk, you know, like a much older man. And he walked up behind me, and he just put his hand lightly on my shoulder. And he said, You know what, lead I photographed with a lot of photographers in my life. And one of the other reasons why gave up too is because I thought I was no longer an artist, and my agent made me really feel like I hit it was gone, you know, that was just a machine. And so he put his hand on my shoulder, and he said, I've shot with a lot of photographers, and I gotta let you know, shooting with you is different. He's like, I, he's like, I've just the way you shoot, the way you see things, the way you direct things like I've never shot with anyone like you. And then and this was like in a YouTube video. So if anyone's questioning it, this has been timestamp many times over and blogged and everything. And he said, I just feel you need to hear this. But you're truly an artist. And so I had like this weird, perfect storm of like anger, I was like, I'm going to help these photographers, I'm gonna make sure that the industry never abuses photographers. But at this other time. At the same time, I was also manifesting literally, a one particular human being on this planet. And he called my office, and he came to my studio. And then he put his hand on my shoulder and said, You're an artist when I thought I wasn't anymore, so please, you guys, please don't dismiss law of attraction and manifestation. That was really the main point of that example. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:40   Wow, that was a really great story. Thanks for sharing a long story. I get better at these nuggets. That's great. And you know, like, sometimes when you shorten it, you kind of miss the, the whole sense of it. So I think it's it was great. I love hearing, you know, a lot of photographers out there or? Yeah, I would say a lot of photographers stopped being artists, when they started trying to earn from their photography, right? I mean, yeah. I really don't know any photographers who got into photography, because they want to make money because there are hundreds other photography, jobs or other profession that is much simpler if that's what you're after. Most of the photographers who want to earn money is because they love photography. They love how that makes other field through the storytelling and photography. And they want to do more of that. Right? Yeah. So I feel like an AI. Don't get me wrong, I got there as well, you know, I actually hit a burnout. And that's exactly it's very similar to what you say is that I stopped being an artist instead, I was like about, you know, how do I make money, what people like, you know, what sort of photo photo that will give me the most likes on Instagram and so forth. So your message right there, I think it's just very important that you should never forget why you started, why you get into this business, that you are an artist and that is the thing that you know, make. What you do is beautiful, right? So thanks for sharing that while he that is, you know, a lot of message behind that story and a lot of advice behind that story. That is incredible. Now. So, you know you have turned into you know, from being an artist to making being able to make money from it and doing basically a job that you love. And now you take that a step further to contributing to other photographers and empower them how Help them to, to be out there in the industry without being stepped on. Now, one thing that I'd love to hear from you is how do people value themselves and their work, because I feel like as an artist who cannot get into whoo hoo, trying to transition or even who's been in the industry for a long time, as an artist, we love to get our story shared, we love to have our photography, you know, in this publication, and so forth and show our message and our vision to the rest of the world, right. And for that reason, I feel like a lot of us don't take don't value, monetary, monetary incentive as much compared to being exposed until we really meet the man and says, like, Well, man, I can't really make money from this, you know, this is not working out. Photography is not a good profession and so forth. And I feel like that's when a lot of people kind of give up. So going back to the question is, you know, despite all the feeling of wanting to share our work, share our story to more people out there, how do we value ourselves and say, Well, I do want to share this, but I also need to eat or also need a roof to live in? And how do you connect that to so that photographers who listening right now, whether they want to do it full time as a hobby or part time know exactly how to value their work? And, and sell as well as you know, offer their work to? Basically, you know, anyone like the audience out there? Walid Azami  41:56   Yeah. Great question. Well, I went on, I lately have been going on a huge tangent about this. value yourself, because without your work, and it doesn't matter if you do landscape or or commercial or portraits or babies or weddings, what have you. You can't launch pretty much any industry without the work of a photographer. Okay? So it's just not going to work. You can't launch a world tour. Without the photos. I just like did something for Tiziano. Ferro, he's about to go huge in Europe, about to go on a major world tour. That's my photo. He released an album this last Friday, two days ago. That's my image. He's on Italian TV shows right now, with my images behind him. Amazon has massive billboards all over Italy, like building size ones that we can send you, you know, copies of those. That's my image. You can't do that without my work. Right. Now, let's talk about what about the personal photography, because not everyone wants to do commercial, you can't tell family history, you can't tell future generations that haven't even been born. If the photographer didn't push the button and perfectly frame people. That's your value. You can't sell your grandma's favourite recipes in your restaurant that you've been working over. And like, you put the kids to bed and you pay them and put them to bed and you feed them. And then you go and you work on this little by little perfecting the recipes. Without a photographer capturing those, the community will never know who you are, what the food looks like. That's photography, that is the value of what we do. Now. We, you need to charge for that. Because what you're doing is they're not doing you a favour by calling you you're doing them a favour by lending your talent. Now let's look at okay, if you said a large percentage of your audience is landscape photographers. Imagine just the way you can represent a geographic area, the way you can represent places that people will go to like the amount of landscape photographers I get jobs with, let's just say unique situations, tours, like wildlife tours, like boutique hotels that just like you can't dress something you can't sell an expensive home anymore. Without beautiful portraits on the wall. The image behind you is as beautiful nightscape with the Milky Way galaxy and all that that you want it to pay money for that and hang that up on your wall. I don't know if that's a wallpaper that's truly your living room. So I just realised that could be a wallpaper but that regardless, it's someone's living room. And it's like we do so much. And even if you do landscape like you're literally selling serenity, your selling piece somebody wants to pay for your art put it up on their wall in their living room. They want to stare at it. They want it to be in the background of home videos and photos and everything. like that they want that art to be a part of their Christmas dinners and Ramadan dinners and Hanukkah dinners and everything else, you have a tremendous amount of value. The problem is that somebody told you a long time ago, that you can't love what you do, and make money for it. And that is one of the most criminal things ever. And then to make it worse, you believe that to further make it worse, you choose to pass it on little by little by little by little complete bullshit. And if you think about it, you should be able to put food on your table, have money for retirement, a vacation, love what you do, and make an impact and enjoy a full time income from it. Because I would say this to any photographer. What if you hated your job? Like, what if you hated your job? And I don't want to disparage any occupations? I won't name anything. But we all would hate to do something, would you charge for it? And they always will say, Oh, yeah, for every minute that I'm there, I will charge for it. So why do you want to get paid? If you hate something? What? Why can't you love something and get paid for it too. But people like me, that are yourself, you know, like with this amazing podcast, we can share our stories with you, we could tell you that we're able to do it, we can tell you that we want to help you do it, like knowledge on us, but execution on you, you have to believe that you have value. And Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:35   that is incredible. I love a few things that you say but the one thing that really hits me is the fact that we do the things that we hate and we want to get paid for it. But when it's doing the things that we love, we don't seek as much and that why not? Yeah, interesting. Yeah. I love that. I love that. That is great. So, all right, so Okay, now, you gotta look at you, I suppose, you know, coming through what you just said that, you know, we have to kind of step back and realise, what is this false belief that we tell ourselves, you know what it was? Who told you a long time ago that you can make money from what you love? Which which what you said earlier right? Now, okay, let's say we find that right? Okay, I know, there was this time and then okay, it's not true. Based on you know, the story that you tell that it's very true, you know, without photography, without artistry, life is boring, right? Everything is just black and white. It's just a plain wall with nothing in it. Right? So yeah. So you value yourself you value or your art, your art. Now, the problem that I see a lot of photographers come across is that, okay? Well, you know what, I valued this an X amount of money, and then you go to other, you go to your customer and say, Well, this is an X amount of price, if you want to have this beautiful piece on your home, and they will go like, no, that's too expensive. I was like, I could get an X amount of dollar, which is, you know, probably like 10% of the I could only pay 10% of that from somewhere else and you know, get the same amount of a feel, for example, and I feel like that is one of the problem that we come across in this industry is that we're continuously being compared with something cheaper, and we that really take away our confidence, right before it's like, man, like, I feel like this worth $1,000. But this guy told me that, you know, he only willing to pay like maximum $200. And you know, you saw it somewhere else for $200. How do you overcome that? And yeah, like, how do you go from there? Walid Azami  49:02   Yeah, that's a solid question. So how you overcome that there's two things that's going on here. And number one, you have not fully expressed your value to your client. Now you never want to say I am valuable. No. They're they are saying to a particular person, I only want to pay $200 for this because in their mind, no, you say your 1000 but I think you're only worth 20% of that you are acting like a heavily discounted item. Okay? So a lot of this is psychology. And I'll talk about in I talked about this in my step Pricing course secret to easy photography, pricing, and it doesn't matter what kind of photography you do, we break down what kind of like how you present your prices, what to ask the clients. How to analyse a situation. If they say this, you say that you know all kinds of scripting and everything your market value and all that. So what I would say number one is determine your value, it should be high, and then portray that to the client. So one example would be, okay, here's an example. I will have a photoshoot on Tuesday. And the client was referred to me. She emailed me through my website, I got the email. And I said, amazing, I kind of vetted who this person was. And then I said, Would you be open to having a phone conversation? Because I don't really just give my numbers out to anybody. And she said, Sure. And we had a zoom call. And I, I asked the questions that I teach in my course. But I also asked these questions. Tell me about you tell me how you want people to feel. Tell me about the goal of these images? Why are you doing it? Why did you not like the other one? What did you like about the past? Shoot? And what did you not like about it? And I built this entire thing, because I can't price something for you, if I don't know what you want. I'm not I'm not a vending machine where I'm just like, here you go two bucks. And that's it. No, what we do is the photographers, you are luxury items, but sometimes you behave like a discount item. So pause a little bit slow down and really get to know them in the process. She said to me, while either I've never had a photographer, inquire this deep about what was important to me why I was doing the shoot. And it really, really made me think thank you so much. That right there. I didn't have to say, hey, hey, I have value. Nope, I just displayed that in the kind of work that I do. Now, for example, if let's just say there's a big Airbnb, let's just say it's a mansion. And they have a lot of property and they want to bring a landscape photographer to photograph for them. You can just say, Oh, I mean $1,200 For that, well, what a disservice. Or you can say, what kind of clients would be there? Okay, what kind of decor Do you have? Like, what's your colour theme? So we're doing more of an evening light? Are we doing morning? What would the mood be is like hard sun? Is it like foggy? Do we want it to be songbird? We want it to be cheery, like all these extra questions, right? That raises up your value because they're like, Oh, she or he is not like any other person that I've interviewed for this job. That's the first part. The second part is that poor people hang out with poor people, rich people hang out with rich people. Both are wonderful humans. However, if you keep serving the audience that says I know you're 1000 But only have $200. They have cousins who believe the same thing. They have neighbours who believe the same thing. They have friends and co workers who believe the same thing. You are going to get stuck in this. What is that thing of the ocean that goes in a circle? If you're weak swimmer, it's like a whatever. It's like it's not a title. It's a it pulls you out. And Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:10   I know what you are correct? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Walid Azami  53:12   yeah. So it's like this ripcord that keeps pulling you out. Or even like a hurricane, it just keeps spinning around throws you right back into the cheap people, the cheap people, the cheap people. Now, they deserve great photos too. But let that be someone else's problem. That's not your problem, dear listeners, okay. But if you decide to serve an audience that really values, the time, the expertise, your artistry, they hang out with people, they refer people to you, that have the same belief. So if you have clients being now I know, you're 1000, but I only have $200 $300, you are very much in the wrong circle. At that point, do everything you can to leave that little rip current that keeps pulling you in and go somewhere else. That's easier said than done. But oh, you know, like a really short cut way of saying it is okay. Where would your client hang out? Where would your perfect ideal client hang out? If you're doing let's say landscape photography, and you want to sell $1,000 for a massive print, I would really want to be at the wineries you know, and taking pictures out there and letting these people that can enjoy these these little weekend getaway vacations. See you with a camera and ask questions and see the work. Put yourself where they hang out. You don't want to go photograph outside of a Walmart parking lot. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:42   That is a great advice. And I love how you give a lot of example for people at different niche and I think that's really cool. speaks a lot about what you probably you know, teach in your course because I haven't taken it myself so I can't really say to it, but yeah, that's Walid Azami  54:59   kind of what And over these landscape photographers? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:03   No, it's really good. Because yeah, like, you know, you really bring it back, you know, your celebrate photographer, fashion portrait, but you really bring it back to like, you know that. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what sort of artists, you are the fundamentals the way you think is the same, right? And I feel like a lot of people get really caught up on that. It's like, well, yeah, like, you know, I don't know if that works for me, because I'm a landscape photographer. And like, well, I don't know, landscape photographers, are miniature photographers. And I feel like we we label ourselves. And instead of using that as a string, we actually use that as a weakness as an excuse. So I really love how you can merge all this together and say, Look, guys, it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what sort of artists you are, this still works. Right. So that is incredible. I love hearing that. And I'm sure the audience will get a lot of value for that. Now, one more question around around the pricing. Right. So excuse me, this is something that I also come across a lot. Is that okay? Well, while he, you know, it's really good advice. I agree with you, I need to get out of this, you know, current and retired and I need to go to where my customer. Right, right. But the problem that I have is that I need that money, I need that money to put my next meal on my table. Right? I need that money to, to pay for the rent for the electricity. I, I don't know, how long will it take to build, you know, all of this, right. And I know that that is one struggle that a lot of artists come through, they decide to bring their price down, they price down the price, the in hope to get that little money, just enough to pay whatever they need to pay. And I believe that is the origin of the belief that we are in that, you know, the broke artist mentality, basically. So what would you what would your advice? What would you what advice would you give to people who are thinking that way? And who are in that situation? Walid Azami  57:28   Sure, I think that that's important to say that is like the gateway to like, when it just starts spinning out of control faster and faster, and just keeps slipping out of your hand. And that's how you buy really cheap cameras, everybody from photographers who have given up and you buy it used, okay. But I will say this, I don't I wish I you know, that wouldn't be the case. But that's literally Hey, it becomes like a gravestone, or a graveyard of like people who gave up. Um, the one thing is, I will say this, if you're a photographer, I don't care what you photograph. Do not ever, ever charge hourly, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. In fact, when like in my step Pricing course, you also get like a year's worth, inside this private Facebook group. I have told them that if I find out because I will Snoop because I do care about my students, that if I see you guys charging hourly, you're out of the programme out? I don't like it. Absolutely not. So that first of all, please don't charge hourly, everybody. But what do you do? Well, I'll say this. Sometimes you just have to put food on the table. And that's your only choice. So you have to do what you have to do and take care of yourself and your family first. Assuming you have a tiny bit of a cushion, okay, you have a little bit of freedom to be able to try something new. I don't, I would much rather you go deliver food for people and get tips. Rather than take cheap clients. Because it's a very, very small industry. If you work in fashion, everyone knows each other. If you work in documentary, everyone knows each other. And all that once word gets out that you are the cheap photographer. Good luck trying to find your way back to the top. It's kind of like in high school. We knew the people who were a boy, okay, we knew the people who were easy. And you can hook up with them if you needed to. And you know, the people who were like, Nah, they're not that type of a person. It's doesn't mean it's right. But it happens. And word gets out so fast. Everyone knows, like, you might as well get like this, like this tag on your forehead that says easy, cheap, free photographer, whatever. So don't do. I'm just going to use just for round numbers. Let's just say you want to charge 1000 And please, everyone charged more than that. But let's just say you want to charge 1000 And you're like I'm just gonna grab these $200 jobs and pay the bill. I wouldn't much rather you go deliver food, go drive an Uber, because at least what you're, what you're doing is preserving your name and your brand in the market. Because once you're the cheap one, good luck coming up, it's nearly impossible. I would almost rather say rebrand yourself, get a whole different business name, or go to a different market, you can start high, and you can find reasons to come down. Maybe it's a Christmas special, maybe it's like, favourite clients type of special Valentine's Day. Okay, and I'll give you an example of how you can charge cheaper and still win. If that scares you don't care what you do. Now, this might be a little harder for landscape photographers. But portrait, family, babies, engagement, modelling, restaurants food, do something called mini sessions. And mini sessions are such a stealth way of so many benefits. Okay, so let's just say you have a goal of $1,000 per photoshoot, please, again, everyone aim higher, especially if you're in the United States. But your goal is $1,000 Who's going to trust you as a snoo photographer with their $1,000 as we're going into a recession, so but you still need to grow your portfolio, you still need to grow your network, you still need to make some money. So what I would do is do mini sessions, Hey, you want to do family portraits, great book out at a time in a day and go to a local park and make it special for them. Bring bottles of water, bring your little boombox speaker play music have like little kits of like hair and makeup and hairspray and like the things that people do for their shiny skin that dab that paper, whatever it might be, have it fun, have some snacks, everything, make it an experience, people love to pay a lot of money for experiences. But instead of booking one client in one day and saying okay, I barely got one for $1,000. And that's your whole day. Why don't you do a bunch of mini sessions $400 each $350 each. And instead of one client, you try to fit like five or six. And you actually end up making way more money. You ended up getting more practice as a newer photographer, because you don't have to manage somebody for like five hours, you haven't for 45 minutes, you have way more images in your portfolio, because you have all these different faces. And you get to benefit from these people who so if if you were to take my family photo for $1,000 you hope that I put you on Instagram and I tag you. But if you were to put like eight 910 families there, at least half of them are going to tag you, you're going to enjoy the benefits of their network and it starts growing. So invest in mini sessions. That also means that if they can't yet afford your full rate, and they can only pay the mini session rate, then what happens is they get a little sample. It's like an appetiser at a restaurant you get a little sample, and they will save up. They're like oh my god was such a fun experience. We should do like a half day with a photographer next time, or maybe a full day. And that's how you grow your business. So like a tactical thing that I would do that never charge hourly, ever, ever, and make it an experience too. But if someone doesn't want to pay, you're in the wrong audience, go get another job and treat that other non photography job as an investor. So I don't care if you don't want to drive people around in an Uber. You just say cool today I made $125 That's the Think of Uber as an investor in your company. And now you can start saying, Okay, I'm going to now go sit at the expensive coffee shops and edit my pictures there so I can run into rich people. You can also find yourself a rich husband or wife that way to podcast. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:18   That is great. I love that. I Walid Azami  1:04:19   love that how do people do it? How do people find their you know, their? Their sugar mama sugar daddy, they go to rich bars. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:28   That is funny. And yeah, that's that's what a great advice and you know, that's that's just I think that will open up a lot of objections, a lot of doubts that people have, and it just goes to show how much value keep on your course. Right. But one thing that I do, I'd like to kind of follow up on that. Is that, okay? You talk about this notion of okay, go to where your customer is. hang up your ideal customer, I should say, yeah, just your customer, you go to where your customer, your ideal customer hang out and appeal to them in a way that they want to be appealed to, right? Because that's, that's what like you can't I think one way that you were, you put it earlier, it's like you can't, you know, dress all hippie and go to a high end place and try to sell people at the high end place for example, correct, right, you harassed to kind of walk the talk and basically be become one of them or you know, relate to them. Now, one thing that I like to get your, your response on is, once you do that, there is still this one thing that is difficult to break, right? To be able to put your work out there is trust, right? Well, yeah, they may come to you. And then you might you may be the dress and you know, walk the talk and talk to talk or whatever it is. And you go like, well, you know, I'm here and this is, you know, I'm looking fancy. And, you know, I'm this sort of photographer, but they look at us like, Okay, well, you know, have you ever sell, you know, for example, an art with the high end price? Or, you know, what's, what's the value and so forth? Right? How do they trust you? If you just got out of this riktigt you know, and you move into this? The people who just want to bring you down and you know, ask for everything for nothing to this place where people actually value your work. Right? How do you get that trust? And how do you get them to invest on you, and your art? For the amount or the value that you value your art? Walid Azami  1:06:58   So, so that I fully I want to make sure I understand how do you get people to trust you with their money and their project and all that, right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:07:08   Correct. Oh, even if you if you just got out of this, like, you know, like, let's because you say earlier, like, leave this thing that like, keep asking for more but doesn't pay anything, you know, go find a different place. Exactly. Cheap town. Okay, we're going into a new city. So but you're nobody there. Right? You're nobody there. So how do you build that trust? How do you get that trust so that people invest on it? Because you know, that first person who believe in you really going to open up the doors, right? That yeah, gonna become your portfolio, they're gonna become your success story. But how do you get that first person to invest and belief in you? Walid Azami  1:07:49   Of course. Well, here's the thing, what I touched on a minute ago, which was many sessions, so you're new in a market and you're like, hey, normally I would charge let's say, $1,000 or $500. For this quick family Christmas card photoshoot? It's $150. Right? That's a fast way. And like a small investment for people to be able to give you a chance. That's the first one. And the second one. How do you get people to trust you as let them see your work? So walk with a camera? What like, like, people walk their dog, walk your camera, go to a coffee shop, put your camera right next to your laptop. Okay? Invite people for that. You know, they say like, Okay, if someone dresses very sexy, they're inviting. Eyes to like, look at them. If someone dresses very intimidating. They're inviting a judgement. So when you walk in, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying like, it happens right? When you like, it's kind of like the people that fly with their Louis Vuitton bags and like you are inviting theft for people to open your bags at the airport and start going through stuff. So when you go with a camera, you are inviting conversation. And people will ask, Oh, are you a photographer? No, I really have this giant thing for fun, you know, but and so. But people will talk and then they'll see. Get out of the house. Get out of as artists we hide in these little caves. Like as artists if you disappeared sometimes your friends and family may not know for three days that you have been kidnapped. Because we don't see the sun as much we sit in this corner and we stare at the monitor and we work and we work and we work get out and sit at a coffee shop. Go to a cafe and eat a little slower and do some work. Go somewhere. Go to a bookstore go like just be outside let people see you. If your ideal client let's say you're in a new year like okay, suddenly I'm the higher price photographer but what kind of photographer Are you? Are you As a family photographer, where do the families go? They you can be there too, and not be creepy about it, you know. So for example, let's say there's beautiful hiking trails by your house. And that's where people like to take their kids and their dog and they go, you go there too, and you take some beautiful photos, just enjoy nature be just be present. People will walk by, and you will start having conversations with people. Okay? So put yourself again, in the space that they want to be. The second thing is Wait, the exact question was, how do you get them to trust you is? Yeah, yeah, is word of mouth really, really is important. You know, nowadays, we can have the world's biggest stars say, Do you must buy this computer monitor? I don't care. I want to know what the photographer with 700 followers says about this monitor. That's what I really care about. So ask people in your life to help you. Most people. 1% are really terrible people, I will say this 99% of people are really good. They want to help you. They don't know how to help you. So they don't help you. Okay, so I'll say that one more time. 99% of people are really good. They want to help you. They don't know how to help you. So they don't. If you were to actually ask for

Episode Notes Episode Summary For this This Month in the Apocalypse episode Brooke, Margaret, and Casandra all researched different topics and discuss them. Margaret talks about climate collapse, droughts, floods, wildfires, the cost of wheat, and the dangers of rising humidity for wet bulb temperatures. Casandra talks about Monkey Pox, rises in other viral and vector borne illness, and discovers why rain might actually be a bad thing for your food. Brooke talks about student loan forgiveness and things you, brave listener, might not be aware you are forgiven for. Everyone attempts to get us sponsored by 'Big' Rain Barrel. If you're out there 'Big' Rain Barrel. Please sponsor us. Host Info Casandra can be found on Twitter @hey_casandra or Instagram @House.Of.Hands. Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Brooke is just great and can be found at Strangers helping up keep our finances intact and on Twitter @ogemakweBrooke Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Next Episode Come out Friday, September 23rd, and every two weeks there after. Might be about thru-hiking, Parenting, or Archiving. Transript An easier to read version is available on our website TangledWilderness.org. Margaret 00:16 Hello, and welcome to Live Like The World Is Dying, your podcasts for what feels like the end times. I'm one of your hosts, Margaret killjoy. I have Brooke and Casandra with me as well as cohosts today, because today, you will be very excited to know that the world's still ending...that we are doing our second monthly This Month in the Apocalypse and we're going to be talking about basically the last month and the I guess that's in the name. Okay. So, Brooke, Casandra, do you want to introduce yourselves? Possibly with Brooke going first. Casandra 00:52 Your name was first. Brooke 00:53 Yeah. Okay, alphabetically. Hi, everybody, it's Brooke Jackson again, coming to you live? Oh, wait, no, this will be recorded by the time you hear it. From the sunny lands of the Willamette Valley in Oregon. Casandra Johns 01:11 We're all in the Willamette Valley right now. Margaret 01:14 It's true. Casandra 01:15 It's true. This is Casandra. That's me. Margaret 01:19 Okay, and so this will be a very short episode, because actually, nothing bad has happened in the world, certainly not nything that feels end times ish, nothing out of the ordinary. I'm under the impression we have reversed most of the major...I mean, I think Biden passed a bill. So, I'm pretty sure climate change is over. And COVID is over. I learned that just the other day walking into a place where I thought everyone would be wearing masks, but it's over. So that's cool. Or, alternatively, let's talk about how China's in the worst heatwave in human history...in recorded history. We're gonna cut it up into segments. And I'm gonna go first with my segment. Casandra Johns 02:06 Do we need to say "Du duh duh duhh, Channel Zero? As part of the intro? Brooke 02:13 Do a Jingle? Margaret 02:16 Yes. Okay. You want to do it? Brooke 02:20 She just did. Casandra 02:21 Oh, yeah, I did. Duh duh duh duh! Margaret 03:19 Okay, and we're back. Okay, so, China...70 Day heatwave as of several days ago, now. And by the time you all are hearing this, I believe we're recording this about five days before this episode comes out. So, who knows what will have happened? There has been a lot of heat waves and floods all over the world this summer. And so China's in the middle of a 70 day heatwave. The drought has reduced hydroelectric output, which huge areas were reliant on the electricity because the water levels are so far down. And of course the electricity is what powers the AC. So no air conditioning is really fun as things get really hot. AC has been turned off in a lot of office buildings. It's cut power to tons of industry, including a bunch of car manufacturers where I'm a little bit like "Eh, whatever. Cars are bad." I mean, I drive cars so I'm kind of an asshole and hypocrite. Anyway. But also solar panel output and EV battery plants and like lots of stuff that's like being pitched as the alternative to things...y'all can feel free to cut me off too as I talk about these things. I'm just like going through my notes. And I don't know, it's breaking records all over the place by like four degrees in a lot of places. It's four degrees Fahrenheit. Brooke 04:44 What is heatwave in this context? Like are they having like, you know, 115 degree temperatures, are they just? Margaret 04:53 I mean, so. I mean, I believe in localized places. It's getting like crazy hot but what's interesting about this is that it's it's more the length of it and the abnormality to its usual that is, like, it's a lot of this stuff is like 106 degrees Fahrenheit and things like that. You know, things that are very not nice, but are...well, human survivable. Although we should probably at some point talk about wet bulb temperatures and how dry places are survivable at substantially higher temperatures than humid places. But yeah, so it's it's, it's an it's an abnormality causing problems as far as I understand, rather than like, just specifically, if you step outside, you will be scorched by the heatray that is the sun. It's affecting over a billion people, which is a lot of people. The area of the heatwave is 530,000 square miles, which for context is Texas, Colorado and California combined. Casandra Johns 05:57 Does that overlap with the area...like, isn't there like a massive wildfire happening in China right now? Margaret 06:04 I think you know, more about the wildfires than I do. Casandra Johns 06:07 I don't know what region it was in. Margaret 06:09 Okay. Casandra 06:09 I guess I'm curious. Of course, they're related because everything climate-y is related, ultimately. Margaret 06:16 Yeah. Casandra 06:19 Yeah, I'm curious how closely they're tied together. But, if you don't know, and I don't know, that's fine. Because there's also a massive wildfire. And that sucks. Margaret 06:27 Yeah. There's a massive wildfire. Brooke 06:31 Is that a continuous area, Margaret? That five? Whatever, something miles? Margaret 06:37 You all are exceeding my level of research that I did, because I did research about the entire world. So I don't know. Brooke 06:44 Okay, fair. Casandra 06:45 Oh, yeah. You have more. This is just like heat waves everywhere. Okay. Margaret 06:48 Yeah. Okay. And also joining us today on playing the squeaky toy in the background is Rintrah, the best dog in the world. Brooke 06:59 Can confirm. Margaret 07:00 The best dog in the world. No complaints? Okay. Yeah, I, you know, there's a lot more I don't know about this, right? But this was one that I haven't even seen really cropping up much in the media at all. And actually, one of the things that's sort of interesting and terrible and telling is that a lot of the information that I've been able to find about climate change disasters comes from the business media, like, a lot of this is about how it will affect stock prices, how it will affect, you know...300 Mines are shut down right now in China, or as of you know, two days ago when I did most of the research for this recording. And so it talks more about the 300 mines that have been shut down instead of the 119,000 people who have been evacuated from their homes. And it's just, it's a real problem. There's a lot of photos of like, low reservoirs that are like 20 meters below what they're supposed to be and things like that. And, of course, to tie everything into everything else, you know, things that happen in one place don't only effect that region. The drought is fucking up their harvest, and fertilizer for export has been affected, which will probably fuck up the world's food supply, which was otherwise very stable. So, I don't think that's gonna be a problem. Casandra Johns 08:16 The world's been chaos, but at least we know, food is cheap and available. Margaret 08:20 And will stay that way. Margaret 08:22 Okay, so then the one that I'm finally starting to see more get talked about in the media, thankfully, although it's annoying, because it's only been talked about because now there's like dramatic photos. But whatever. I mean, I'm not blaming people for not paying attention to everything that's happening in the world. Pakistan is having flooding, like just absolutely massive flooding. I've read reports saying that there's a half a million people living in refugee camps. It's taken at least 1000 lives, it's fucking up food production. Over a million homes have been destroyed. A third of the country is underwater. Have y'all seen the satellite image photos? Casandra 08:22 Yep Casandra Johns 08:59 Yeah, and they're referring to it as a 'lake.' Which makes me wonder like, are they anticipating at least some portion of it to remain? Like, "And look at our new lake!" Margaret 09:10 Yeah. Casandra 09:12 I heard I heard someone else I heard someone referred to it as a 'small ocean.' Margaret 09:18 Yeah. Margaret 09:19 Yeah. And, and Pakistan is the the fifth most populous country in the world after China, India, U.S., Indonesia, I think. Yeah. And so it's like, it's a big fucking deal and a big fucking problem. And one of the other problems because capitalism solves...makes everything worse. Pakistan has taken out a $1.1 billion dollar loan from the IMF, which for anyone following at home, the IMF is a predatory lending organization called the International Monetary Fund, that actually a lot of modern leftist politics, at least in the Western world and actually a lot of the developing world kind of cut its teeth in the...during the, the turn of the millennium fighting against the IMF and the World Bank, specifically because of the stuff that they do, which is that they loan predatory. It's like a payday loan. You know, it's like a paycheck loan place, but for entire countries, they loan you $1.1 billion, and then you're going to be paying off the interest for the rest of your life as a country. And of course, a lot of what's happening right now is that developing nations as they take out these loans are therefore forced to extract more fossil fuels from their own countries, in order to pay off the interest of their loan, not even touching the principal, trapping us further and further in the cycle of what's destroying everything. So that's all really fun. Okay, then, East Africa, particularly Kenya, Somalia, and Ethiopia, are also facing prolonged drought, rising food prices. A lot of this is because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This is projected to leave 20 million people hungry with an estimated 3 million potential deaths if aid isn't delivered, and these three countries represent 2% of the world's population, but 70% of the extreme food insecurity. And most of...about 90% of the wheat imported by East Africa comes from Russia and Ukraine, which are of course, having some issues right now. They're not famously friends. But you're thinking to yourself, "Well, I'm a wheat farmer in the US, and the high prices are good for me." They are not. Things are not good with domestic wheat production here in the United States, either, which, of course, affects large quantities of the world. Also, the US is a major grain exporter. And so this is things that affect the US do affect everyone else. And not just because we're the center of Empire. Drought is affecting wheat fields in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska. Kansas is estimating a 30% drop in their harvest. Oklahoma is estimating a 50% drop, in its harvest. And so even though you have these, like record high prices for wheat, farmers are expecting to lose money, because they're not able to grow enough. You look like you have a question. Brooke 09:19 Oh wow. Casandra Johns 12:24 And yeah, so we talked about this a little bit the other day, I think, like I'm not sure if people realize what it means when the wheat crop is devastated. You know, it's not just like, "Maybe I can't eat bread." Brooke 12:43 There's more to it than that? Casandra Johns 12:45 Right! I mean, the next thing I think of is like, who eats the wheat? Not just humans. You know, like, I can't eat wheat, but like, I eat beef. Margaret 12:58 Yeah. Casandra 12:58 And chicken. Margaret 13:00 Yeah. Brooke 13:00 Was does that matter, Casandra? Casandra 13:03 Maybe they eat wheat. Just the like domino effect. Margaret 13:07 Yeah. Casandra 13:08 Yeah. When we talk about rising food prices and rising fuel prices, and how those are connected to like rising everything prices. Margaret 13:15 Yeah. And book prices most famously. Brooke 13:16 Okay, well, like, I have a solution. Casandra 13:19 Okay, what's your solution? Is it Communism? Brooke 13:19 Cause, we're all about solutions here. Well, you started talking about Pakistan being all flooded like the country's a giant lake. And then you said drought in the US and I'm like, "Let's just pick up some water over there and just put it over here." And then there won't be a drought or flood. Margaret 13:36 So what's so great and I'm gonna get to in a moment is that drought and flood are entirely related. I think you knew this, and we're just setting me up to say this, but they're absolutely related. The more drought you have, the worse flooding you have, which of course, like boggles my immediate science, right? My non science brain is like, "But water is the opposite of drought," you know, and we're gonna get to them second. Okay, so also in the US, Lake Mead is drying up. It's the largest reservoir in the United States, it provides water to 25 million people. It's possible that soon it won't have enough water to feed the Hoover Dam, which provides electricity to about a million people. And the one upside of all of this drought..this is really selfish. It's kind of like interesting the stuff they keep finding in the water. They keep find... Margaret 14:26 Yeah. They're like finding like some guys like "Oh, look a barrel," and he like pops open some barrel from the 1920s. And just like a dead guy with a bullet in his skull, and they're like, "Oh, the mafia really did just drop people off in barrels," which led me to the conclusion that apparently leaving dead bodies in large body in large bodies of water is more effective of a strategy than I've been led to believe. Casandra 14:27 Well, they haven't they also...hasn't also revealed like Nazi...like sunken Nazi ships and shit. And then they're like the.... Casandra 14:27 Crime? Margaret 15:01 Yeah, not in Lake Mead, though. Casandra Johns 15:04 Right. But then..No, but I'm just saying like everywhere it's revealing interesting things like in Europe the...what are the stones called? Margaret 15:12 The Hunger Stones. Casandra 15:13 Hunger Stones? Margaret 15:15 Yeah. Casandra 15:15 So apparently, what's the context for this? Previously, in history when there were massive droughts and like rivers dwindled down to nothing, people made carvings in the stones at particular water levels with these like really epic, maybe Margaret's looking at some examples, of these really epic miserable statements about like, "Fear ye, fear ye, if the water gets this low..." Margaret 15:40 You're dead. Casandra 15:40 Yeah, but people are seeing those now, which is terrifying and interesting. Margaret 15:47 Yeah. Terrified and interesting is a good way to describe the current epoch. Brooke 15:52 Cool. That's the silverling, the mud caked lining. Brooke 15:52 Yeah. There was. It's not happening right at this moment. But here locally, when the Detroit reservoir got real low a couple of years ago, there was a town that had been flooded when they built the dam there and it was low enough that like, remnants of this town were visible, including like an old wagon, like covered wagon base kind of wagon and other cool artifacts. Brooke 16:27 See some history before we all die. Margaret 16:30 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Brooke 16:31 Great. Margaret 16:32 So, in California, heat and drought are also combining as power usages reaches a five year high power use, because people are running more and more air conditions. I didn't quite realize exactly how...I don't I don't have a percentage in front of me...But like, air conditioning is a really, really big use of electricity. And so in California, the grid is estimated...is expected to become unstable, although that might have already happened. It was supposed to happen like this week. So that might happen by the time y'all hear this. Or maybe it didn't happen. And I'm here I am chicken littling, all day long. And, of course, Jackson, Mississippi flooding. The capital of Mississippi, which is primarily black city has left 150,000 people without drinking water. Sooo... Brooke 17:18 I haven't heard about this at all? Margaret 17:20 Oh, yeah. And there's some mutual aid groups on the ground. Cooperation. Jackson is a long standing organization that works to sort of build dual power and do all kinds of awesome stuff in terms of cooperative economics and things like that. And they are doing a lot of mutual aid work. I believe there's also a group and maybe this is actually not maybe they're not directly related. I'm not sure there's a group called Hillbillies Helping Hillbillies that I've at least seen talk a lot about this issue. I don't know if they do most of their work down there or if they've been more focused on the Tennessee floods. Casandra Johns 17:54 I know Mutual Aid Disaster Relief is also doing work there. Margaret 17:59 Yeah. So "Why does all this stuff happen, Margaret?" you might ask. Brooke 18:07 Why does all this stuff happen, Margaret? Margaret 18:09 Well, I am an expert named Jennifer Francis, a senior scientist at the Woodward Climate Research Center in Falmouth, Massachusetts, and my quote, that is definitely me is, "As the air and oceans warm under a thicker blanket of greenhouse gases, more water vapor evaporates into the air providing more moisture to fuel thunderstorms, hurricanes, nor'easters and monsoons." Basically, as the temperature rise of the Earth, the warmer atmosphere can hold more water vapor, every degree of...every increase of one degree Celsius can boost the capacity for holding water vapor by about 7%. So that's fun. And also as things get more humid, you're like, "Okay, well, that's cool. It's like more tropical and stuff, right?" Higher humidity is substantially more dangerous, like heat and humidity is what kills people, because of the way that our bodies thermo regulate basically, like, if you're at 100% humidity, and the temperature goes above your body temperature, you die. Not like instantly, right? But your body loses its ability to thermo regulate. And so that is the wet bulb temperature is the temperature at 100% humidity, and that can be calculated out from there. So, for example, 105 degrees Fahrenheit at 5%. humidity is not that bad. It's like 61 degrees wet bulb, right? You're not in danger, I mean, you can be in danger zone from other parts of it, you need to get in shade, right? But like, whereas 105 degrees at 95% humidity is 103 degrees wet bulb. So, and for context, you know, it's like I used to never really think about the level of humidity that I lived in until I moved to the South and I had to worry about mold and all kinds of other shit. But, much of the South, and San Francisco and also I believe much of Alaska sit at around 80 to 90% humidity, whereas the Southwest might be at around 30% humidity. So, when you hear about temperatures at different levels in different parts of the country, the humidity that they're facing, like matters in terms of how catastrophic this type of thing is likely to be. And then the "What to do about it section!" Don't worry, we're almost done with the terrible climate shit part. Casandra Johns 20:20 I feel like earlier, you mentioned something about the relationship between flooding and drought. I was hoping you were gonna circle back to that. Margaret 20:28 Okay. Oh, yeah. So. So basically, the...some atmosphere shit I only half understand. But, as everything gets hotter, more of the air like sits...and more of the water sits in the air and that...it just fucks everything up. So, like, the rain falls off fucked up. I, I kind of like, wrap my head around it. And then I, it unraveled, you ever, like study things that are completely outside your thing? And then you like, you get your takeaway, and then the details like dissolve? That's what happened to me while I was researching this? Casandra Johns 21:00 No, that's I didn't realize it had I, I thought my assumption was it was going to be that, you know, you can look up videos of this where like, people put a cup of water upside down on like dry soil, you know, partially damp soil and like saturated wet soil. And the cup of water immediately, like seeps into the ground in the saturated soil, but it takes a really long time for the dry soil to absorb the water. Margaret 21:25 Yeah. Casandra 21:25 And so my assumption was like, "Oh, if there's a drought and the soil is bone dry, it can't absorb moisture very effectively." Margaret 21:33 Yeah. Casandra 21:33 Which is counterintuitive, maybe? But...then it floods. Margaret 21:36 I think that is a big part of it. Yeah. Casandra 21:38 Okay. Margaret 21:39 And then also, I was even just like...go ahead. Brooke 21:43 I was thinking about how matter can't be created or destroyed. And so the water still exist somewhere, even though it got sucked up from the dry places. And that might be why it ended up flooding in other places because the water still exists. Margaret 21:58 Well, a lot of places it's literally the same place will have droughts and floods. I think Texas was dealing with that I think it was Dallas, was having a record drought and might still be in a record drought and then had like, really fuck off flooding. I think it was about a week or two ago. That was like destroying everything. And, you know, because if the rain patterns are just completely different than Yeah, what the ground is used to absorbing and like, and which ties into what to do about it. A lot of what to do about it needs to happen at the scale that we're not necessarily going to talk about right now. But, rainwater catchment and drought areas is super important. And, you know, I was looking it up because there's this like. I'd always been sort of told that rainwater catchment like fucks up the water system of that area, you know, because Colorado has, they have re-legalized it a little bit in 2016. But it's been illegal for a very long time to catch rainwater in Colorado because they're like, "Oh, it's so dry here. We need all the groundwater." That was what I had always got told. The real reason's that Colorado made rainwater catchment illegal have a lot more to do with...capitalism, and the way that water rights are, you're basically stealing from people in entirely different areas if you catch the rainwater at the source or whatever. And, it it can affect things,right, if you like take water that could otherwise have ended up groundwater, but you're mostly it's mostly like shit that would have run off anyway. And so rainwater catchment increasingly in a lot of places, I believe Arizona has like new laws that like require new buildings to include rainwater catchment. There's entire countries who I didn't write down the names of that require rainwater catchment in all new buildings, especially island nations, I'm under the impression and so rainwater catchment is cool. And then, Arizona you can get rebates if you install rainwater catchment. In Colorado, it is now legal again for like home level and there's like all these like rules and shit. And you're, you're only allowed to store two barrels for a total of 110 gallons and you can only do it at like, home, or whatever. I'm sure there's ways that people could imagine catching rain water without getting caught. The CDC points out that rainwater is generally not safe to drink without treatment. You can use it to water non food plants without treatment. I say this, I showered with rainwater for the past three years and don't give a shit. But, maybe I shouldn't recommend that to other people. But, also filtering rainwater is like not the biggest deal in the world. And then... Casandra Johns 24:39 Also like, the idea of only using it on non food plants is really funny to me, because like it just rains on my plants, you know? And then I eat them. Margaret 24:51 Yeah. Brooke 24:52 You shouldn't let rain land of your plants. Margaret 24:54 You shouldn't be eating food from plants. Plants comes from stores, Casandra. Casandra Johns 24:59 Uh oh. Okay. And if they get rained on specifically then they're like poison. Margaret 25:06 Yeah, me, okay. Like, you walk out of a food store, the main place that people get food, like McDonald's, and you have your chicken nuggets, or... Casandra 25:14 And then they get rained on? Margaret 25:16 You wouldn't want to eat them now, would you? Casandra 25:18 Okay, I see what you mean. Margaret 25:20 Yeah, no, I like that part about the like non food plants or whatever is like to me is like that's what the CDC says. The CDC has lost a lot of...I don't trust it as much as I might have used to. Casandra 25:36 Interesting segue to... Margaret 25:39 Yeah. Well, there is one more part though that I believe one have you added to the notes about soil remediation and dry gardening? I'm wondering if you want to talk about some of that. Brooke 25:52 That has to be Casandra, cause it wasn't me. Casandra Johns 25:54 Oh, I mean, that was me thinking about like, how the what I was saying before how bone dry soil...the best place to store water is in the soil. Right? Margaret 26:04 Yeah. Casandra 26:06 Just like the best place to store nitrogen is in the soil. But, you know, if I lived in a super dry area, and this is only so effective for like the home gardener, this like ideally would happen on a large scale. But, if I lived in a really dry area, I'd be working really hard to like improve my soil health so that it can store more water. So that things like dry gardening are possible. So I can you know, have food even in a drought. Margaret 26:32 What is dry gardening? Casandra Johns 26:36 Dry gardening is gardening with little to no, like, manually added water. Margaret 26:43 Is that where you like mulch the shit out of it all to prevent evaporation? Casandra Johns 26:46 Yeah, you can do it that way. You can also...there. There's a...well, it's on my bookshelf, so I'm not gonna mention it because I can't remember the title right now. But yeah, mulching, spacing your plants a lot farther out, making sure that your soil can store water so that if you know we live, where I live, it rains a lot in the spring. And if the plants I plant have a room, and the soil is fluffy enough that they can send the roots really deep, then in the summer, when it's dry, they can still access the water that's stored in the soil. Does that make sense? Margaret 27:19 Cool, and then they grow chicken nuggets? Casandra 27:22 Yep. Margaret 27:23 Cool. Okay, so back to the clever segue that I broke about not trusting the CDC.... Casandra Johns 27:36 Yeah, yeah, I Okay. So, we realized we should probably say at least something about monkey pox. Because it's the thing that exists. My notes are titled monkey pox sucks. And... Brooke 27:52 Correct. Casandra Johns 27:53 Correct. Yeah. And I realized in researching this that I knew very little, I think I was just like, "We live in a time where there will be epidemic after epidemic," and I'm, you know, mentally overloaded on this topic. And had a lot of assumptions that were wrong. But, one interesting thing I found out is that the CDC is saying it's not transmitted....It's not airborne. Which, you know, they've kind of gone back and forth about whether masks are going to help...masks. I can't enunciate....whether masks are going to help prevent the spread. Brooke 28:37 If the mask prevents you from licking someone's open wounds, then then I say that would be helpful. Put your mask on. Casandra Johns 28:44 But, then there's there are other recommendations around like, avoiding close face to face contact with people. So that's all. I think I'm just affirming that I am also skeptical of CDC guidelines at this point, which is a bummer. Margaret 28:59 Yeah. Casandra 29:01 Anyway, do you want to hear all about monkeypox? Margaret 29:04 Yeah. Yay. Casandra 29:06 Yay. Margaret 29:06 What a fun show we make. Brooke 29:10 That's like a game, right? It's a children's game that you play. It's fun. Spread all over? Isn't it great? Casandra 29:18 No. Margaret 29:19 It's one of those games with a 1-3% death.... Okay, please continue. Brooke 29:24 That's pretty low. It's fine. Casandra Johns 29:26 Oh, my God, what a world that we live in. So apparently was discovered in 1958 in laboratory monkeys. So, you know, you can insert something here about blaming capitalism for everything. Because maybe it wouldn't have been a thing if monkeys were not in laboratories? Anyway, it's a cousin of smallpox in the first human case was recorded in 1970. When I first heard about monkey pox in May or whatever I was like, "Oh, cool and new disease." It's not new. It's been around for decades. So, it's really interesting that like, we don't have a vaccine that can quickly be rolled out. Do you want to guess why that is? Margaret 30:14 Is it Capitalsim? Brooke 30:14 I guess 'racism.' Casandra 30:15 Racism. Brooke wins with 'racism.' Brooke 30:23 Yay? Casandra 30:26 Yeah, so it was that to be uncommon in humans, but cases started increasing around 1980. And most of the cases have been documented in central and western Africa. That correct? In Africa. Margaret 30:41 Yeah, you said Nigeria is like one of the main spots of it? Casandra 30:45 For this outbreak. Margaret 30:46 Okay. Casandra 30:48 Yeah. So, and they think that one of the reasons....so there have been multiple outbreaks since it was first recorded in humans in 1970, which I didn't realize, because we don't hear about them, because mostly they've taken place in Africa. Which is just depressing. And I'll come back around to that in a minute. But, they think that that the increase in cases might be connected to the fact that it is related to smallpox. The smallpox vaccine, they think gives like, 85% that it is like, 85% effective against monkey pox. But most people don't get the smallpox vaccine anymore. Brooke 31:27 Yeah. Casandra 31:28 And I think that's related to the increase in monkey pox cases. Margaret 31:33 People don't get the smallpox vaccine anymore, because smallpox kind of went away because of vaccines? Casandra 31:40 Yeah, Brooke 31:41 No, it just stop being trendy. People were like, "That is not cool anymore. I'm not gonna take that one." Casandra Johns 31:48 Yeah, yeah. Which then is like, there's a whole tangent in here about who and how they decide a disease has been 'eradicated.' I'm doing air quotes that you can't see has been, 'eradicated.' Especially when something like monkey pox is trance was initially transmitted from animals to humans. And so, yeah, I don't know, is smallpox eradicated? I don't know. I'm not an epidemiologist. But I'm curious. So, let's see. Okay, so the current outbreak grew from one case in Massachusetts in the US, I'm talking about the US now, May 17. And at this point, you know, however many days it's been since May, there are almost 20,000 cases in the US, which is a lot of cases. Brooke 32:40 I mean, it sounds like a big number. But, also I know, there's a lot of people in the US, but also, I don't know how much cases of other things that we know about are common. So I don't have any frame of reference. Margaret 32:51 Yeah same. Casandra 32:53 Yeah. Brooke 32:54 Well, it's way smaller than Covid. Casandra Johns 32:57 Right. It is way smaller than Covid. But, you know, and it's, it's sort of like Covid, you're probably not going to die from it. But then there's the asterisk, 'unless you're immunocompromised already,' you know. So like, who are we? Who are we willing to throw under the bus for this? Brooke 33:13 So just Casandra. Casandra 33:13 Yeah, just me. Yeah. But then there's also public health experts are apparently warning that the virus is on the verge of becoming permanently entrenched here. Margaret 33:24 Cool. Casandra 33:25 So maybe 20,000 isn't, you know, a big chunk of the population, but in terms of like, a virus, it's bad news, because we don't really want it to become entrenched here, right? Brooke 33:38 Yeah, viruses, bad. Casandra 33:41 Virus equals bad. Okay. Okay, so, so there's been a lot of criticism about Biden's administration and their sluggish response to the outbreak. I read a really interesting report. I think WaPo [Washington Post] was the first place to report on this, but they said that, on August 4, US Health and Human Services officials plan to stretch the country's limited supply, or they announced, that they plan to stretch the country's limited supply of vaccines by splitting doses to cover five times as many people. This is after saying that they had plenty of doses. So, already sketchy. Yeah, cool, cool. And then the chief executive of Bavarian Nordic who's the vaccine manufacturer responded by accusing the Biden admin of breaching contract by planning to use them in this like inappropriate way by splitting the doses and then apparently threatened to cancel all future vaccine orders so that....Yeah, I'm not sure how that was resolved. Brooke 34:45 Capitalism. The other 'ism' now at play. Margaret 34:50 I was right. I was late. Casandra Johns 34:57 So the big concern for me in researching this was how it spreads, because I have a child who's about to go back to public school, so apparently animal to human transmission, it's spread by direct contact with blood, bodily fluids or cutaneous or mucosal lesions of infected animals. And then human to human transmission is close contact with respiratory secretions, which to me says airborne, right, right? Is that not what that means? Anyway, respiratory secretions, skin lesions of an infected person, or recently contaminated objects. So things like bedding, clothing, stuff like that. Um, but the CDC says it's not airborne. So, take that, as you will. I don't know. How are you gonna take that, Brooke? Brooke 35:41 Right. Well, I mean, respiratory secretions that does sound more significant than just like, you know, air droplets, like we talked about with covid, like, more moist, kind of things coming out of you, like sneezes and coughs and stuff that actually sprays more liquid matter? Casandra 36:07 So, use your imagination with that. Margaret 36:08 We could just go through and describe every act that could... Casandra 36:10 Don't spit in people's mouths. Brooke 36:14 Damn it, there goes half of my kink play. Margaret 36:18 I mean, it does seem like it's less contagious than like, because like, okay, right, like, because they said originally COVID wasn't airborne. And they weren't always wrong about that, right? But, the fact that it's been here for months, and is at 20,000 cases, is like, 'promising,' in that it seems less contagious than COVID? But that's, I guess I'm talking about like, the first or second most contagious virus that the world's ever faced. So, I guess it's a terrible benchmark to compare it to. Casandra Johns 36:49 Yeah, I think comparing everything to covid is probably not in our best interest, especially because a lot more people are comparing this to AIDS, in terms of the communities it's impacting, and how it's spreading. So it's, it's okay, let me go back to my list. Alright, so the incubation period is usually six to thirteen days, it's thought to be mainly spread through sexual activity, specifically, men who have sex with men and have multiple partners, though now they've sort of expanded that to include like queer and trans people, which is good. Not that it's spreading in queer and trans communities, but that they're changing language. So then I was like, "Well, is it an STI, right?" And I Googled "Is Monkey pox and STI? And the first two articles that came up, were: Number one, "Monkey pox is an STI and knowing that can help." And then number two is, "Monkey pox is spreading through sex, but it's not an STI." So you know, I'm not a doctor. Casandra Johns 37:02 It's not an STI. Casandra 37:29 Okay. Brooke 37:31 Because it's not it's, yeah, go ahead. Casandra Johns 37:52 But it seems to mainly be spreading through sex, probably because of the close contact involved. Margaret 38:02 Yeah, I mean, like, like, scabies is... Brooke 38:04 Yeah, like not through the sex itself. Casandra 38:06 Right. Brooke 38:07 But through the close physical contact of you know, that happens during sex. Casandra Johns 38:12 I think. I also saw a list. I think it's LA County. I was reading their like, list of eligibility criteria, and maybe risky behavior to avoid...'in void.' Would that even? Yeah, thank you. I was just trying to figure out what my made up word means. Risky behavior to avoid and they listed that, like, we're still learning about how it's transmitted, right, which is wild for a disease that's been around since the 70s. But, they listed that it could possibly be transmitted through semen. Like not solely but that could be another way that it's transmitted. Brooke 38:53 Sure, transmitted through bodily fluids, but the distinction when it when it's an STI is something that's sort of limited to being transmissible through kind of the genital region. Casandra Johns 39:10 Is that why one type of herpes is considered an STI, and the other isn't? Brooke 39:14 Yeah, so you can like can get both of them in both places because of oral sex. Casandra 39:21 Huh, that's interesting. Brooke 39:23 But yeah, technically. That's why. Casandra Johns 39:25 Thanks for knowing more about STI classification than me. I appreciate it. Brooke 39:29 Well, I fuck a lot. So I got to know these kinds of things. Casandra 39:35 All right, moving on with my notes. My next... Brooke 39:40 I just made everyone turn a scarlet blushing red color because I have non prude among this collective. Casandra Johns 39:48 I'm not blushing. I'm not prudish. I'm just Demi. Okay, so my next section is titled "Racism," which, yeah, so the virus isn't spreading in this specific outbreak of monkey pox is been spreading in Nigeria since 2017. Yet, somehow there are no clinical...there's no clinical trial data of the effectiveness of the vaccine or T pox, which is the antiviral they've developed. No human studies. I wonder why. Um, well, I as I said it's understudied because up until now, it's been isolated to central and west Africa. Yeah. What would have happened if we were vaccinating on a large scale in Nigeria? Would it have spread? Margaret 40:31 Yeah, I mean, that's like such a thing that I keep thinking about all this shit, where it's like, it's just seemed so obvious to me that, like the solutions to all the major things that we're dealing with right now, like don't make any sense in a world full of borders. You know? Being like, like, "We got ours. Fuck you," doesn't make any fucking it never made any fucking sense. But, it really doesn't make any fucking sense now, or it's like, yeah, if we had, like, I don't understand, even if I'm like a self interested, rich white American. I don't understand how I can be like, "Oh, new new disease just dropped and it's in another country." Let's go get rid of it in another country. That makes sense from...it's cheaper than building spaceships to Mars. Brooke 41:16 I think it's people still just not fundamentally understanding how deeply integrated we are now as a global society. Yeah. I mean, we shouldn't have figured especially in the last couple of years, if you haven't figured it out before, then like, you should understand that now. I feel like... Margaret 41:32 Yeah, acids been around for a long time. Casandra 41:39 Don't understand the reference? Margaret 41:43 Just like, oh, no, like, we're all one consciousness? Whatever. Casandra 41:52 Okay, my next subsection of notes is titled "Homophobia." Margaret 41:55 Hurray. Casandra 41:56 This is...I'm announcing these by way of a content warning. So yeah, so I read a few different, you know, I've seen like on Twitter and stuff, people talking about how homophobia relates to the way the language the government has been using and media outlets have been using around monkeypox, and also the government response to it and didn't fully understand that other than that it's mainly spreading in queer networks right now. But, I read an article that talked about how the homophobia they were seeing was mainly around the language that gay sex is quote, unquote, 'driving' the epidemic. Yeah, and just like really sex negative advice around how to keep from getting monkey pox. But, in reality, the drivers of the epidemic are the structures globally that have led to like vaccines and tests and treatments all existing for this virus, but not being accessible. Margaret 42:57 Yeah. Casandra 42:58 Yeah, I don't know if y'all have read any of the first person accounts of people trying to find access even to a test. Like I read an account of someone who went to their doctor was like, "I think a monkey pox." and the doctor, like, had to jump through all of these hoops just to access a test Margaret 43:14 Fucking hell. Margaret 43:16 So that's cool. Let's see, before I talk about the 'What we can do,' I want to circle back to climate change really quickly. Because, I think that in my brain, I know that epidemics and climate change are related, but I hadn't thought much about how in the particular mechanisms, but I read an interview that, that interested in me a lot. And they talked about how climate change is driving the risk of infectious diseases. I saw a report that 58% of the 375 infectious diseases they examined, have...this is a quote, "have been at some point aggravated by 'climatic hazards.'" So that's cool. Brooke 44:03 I...but how? I don't understand the connection. Casandra 44:06 Yeah. So. So one way is that climate change, they were talking about how it brings humans closer to animals, not in the sense that like "We are closer to nature," but just like, as we encroach on... Brooke 44:17 oh, sure. Casandra 44:20 And so, animal to human transmission is a thing. But, also if we're talking about like climate change and natural disasters, people get very sick of diseases and die after natural disasters. So, I'm sure that's part of what they mean by 'aggravated,' being 'aggravated by climatic hazards.' Warmer temperatures also attract insects and carriers of disease to parts of the world that they didn't used to exist in. Margaret. I feel like you were talking about...we were talking the other night and you mentioned like...no was it you? Maybe I was reading something? I've been reading too much lately. I was reading about a type of mosquito that is like, more likely to carry things like Dengue fever, and is now in the US, is now in the northern hemisphere. And. Margaret 45:08 Oh, that's exciting. Casandra 45:10 Yeah, and it has to do with warmer water temperatures where they can hatch their eggs and also with capitalism, because apparently they were transported here in 'tires.' Margaret 45:22 Huh? Casandra 45:23 Like when tires sit, you know outside in a wash, tje water pools? Yeah. Wild. Margaret 45:33 Which ties back to rain catchment and how don't do lazy rain catchment where you just put your downspout into the barrel, you should filter it, and you should prevent mosquitoes from breeding in there. Also algae, and all kinds of other stuff. Casandra 45:47 Yeah, it's true. Brooke 45:49 So today's episode is brought to you by capitalism and racism. Margaret 45:54 And I was thinking rain barrels. But Sure. Brooke 45:59 Well, the reason we have to talk about these horrible things is the 'isms.' Margaret 46:04 Right? Where as I was thinking about sponsors, Big Rain Barrel. The big sponsor of the show. Brooke 46:11 That'd be a great sponsor. I hope we get a free barrel. Casandra 46:14 Yeah. Brooke 46:14 Free barrel with every Ep [episode] Margaret 46:16 Yeah. I want to be able to talk about them personally. So, please contact us through the site. The advertisers. I want the I want Big Rain Barrel to...I just want a rain barrel. That's all. Please continue. Casandra 46:31 So in 2022, we're still experiencing the COVID outbreak, right? And now my monkey pox. And also polio. Margaret 46:40 Cool. Casandra 46:42 Yeah. Yeah, yes. Polio. Someone Someone got polio. For the second time since they declared polio like a...they don't use the word eradicated. But they were basically like, "Humans don't get this anymore." But two have since then. One was this summer. So that's...okay. Brooke 47:06 That's neat. Casandra 47:07 Yeah, what can we do about it? We can wash our hands a lot. I'm still gonna wear a mask, even though the CDC says it's not airborne, because I don't understand the difference. And also Covid's still a thing. We can research testing and vaccination in our areas, because it seems to be vastly different in different cities and counties and really confusing. So you can do the research ahead of time and share it through your network so people know where to access information and help. You can also get vaccinated if you qualify. However, I let's see, I looked at a few different counties and their eligibility criteria. And they all seem to have a few things in common. You have to be gay or bisexual men, or a transgender person who has had either 1) Multiple or anonymous sex partners in the last 14 days or 2) Skin to skin, skin to skin or intimate contact with people at large venues or events in the last 14 days. And then they're also starting to include people of any gender or sexual orientation who have engaged in commercial or [cuts out], so sex workers in the last 14 days. So yeah, if any of those are you, and you have a vaccination place near you, why not get it? Margaret 48:32 Because Bill Gates will be able to track all the sex you have? Brooke 48:38 Yeah, Casandra 48:39 The reason I agreed to research monkey pox for this episode is because, like I said, my kids about to go back to school. And I was really nervous. And I'm feeling a little bit less nervous for the moment about school because of the cases documented in children so far areextremely low. So, that's some good news for all of the other parents out there. Margaret 49:02 And the children listening Casandra 49:05 For any of the children listening. Margaret 49:06 It just occurred to me that children might listen to this podcast. I'm so sorry, children, about the world. Not about the cussing. I'm sorry about the world. Casandra 49:18 Speaking of school, Brooke 49:20 Hey, yo, student loan forgiveness that's been in the news. Right? And as the person with the background in economics, I feel like I have to talk about that. So, student loans, I'm fairly certain that of the two of you one of you has student loans and one of you does not. And I'm I'm curious how each of you feel about student loan forgiveness without...you can go ahead and not reveal which one of you it is and isn't for the moment. Just tell me if you like it? Is it good? Or bad? Casandra 49:56 Fucking-tastic I mean, not this version, this version is just like so. So, but like, should they forgive all of our student loans? Fuck yes, they should. Margaret 50:04 I agree. Brooke 50:05 Casandra says yes. Oh, and Margaret agrees Wait, but only one of you has student loans? Margaret 50:11 So, I don't have student loans. And...I can't imagine, I can't imagine anyone who doesn't have student loans giving a shit. Like I just like, I struggle so hard. Like, every time someone's like, "They did this with our taxpayer money," and I'm like, "Motherfucker, they invaded half the world with our tax money." Like... Casandra 50:35 There there other things you should be frustrated about being done with your tax dollars. Casandra 50:40 And this is not one of them. Margaret 50:40 Yeah! Margaret 50:42 Yeah. And then even with my like, even if I was like a self interest capitalist shit, it's like, I don't know, healthy economy is not one built on fucking debt. And I don't know, whatever. I'm just like... Brooke 51:00 Don't spoil my ending, Margaret. Margaret 51:02 Oh, sorry. Right. Casandra 51:04 But capitalism means that there have to be people who are suffering and poor so that I can feel superior and be stable and have more money. Margaret 51:13 Oh, that's a good point. Casandra 51:14 Yeah. Margaret 51:15 No, I take it back actually, Brooke. I'd like to change my answer. No one should. Casandra 51:21 Fuck Casandra. Margaret 51:26 No one should have the right to have debt forgiven. It should probably be transmitted to children and children's children. Oh, wait, that already happens. Just okay. Anyway. Casandra 51:36 What about corporations? Shouldn't they be able to get their debt forgiven, Margaret? Margaret 51:40 Oh, yeah. I mean, corporations, obviously should have their debt forgiven. I mean, otherwise, we wouldn't have an economy. Brooke 51:46 Like, God. Okay. You two know everything. My work is done here. Throw the topic and walk away. Excellent. Casandra 51:55 Sorry, Brooke. Brooke 51:56 No, I'm loving it. Casandra 51:58 This is how we cope with talking about money. Margaret 52:01 Yeah. Brooke 52:04 Oh, it's so good. No, I have you know, I have a couple of, of friends and or relations that are both on the against it side. Well, neither of whom went to college or have any students debt. Casandra 52:21 Why are they still your friends? Brooke 52:22 Well, Facebook friends, let's say that. Casandra 52:25 That's fair. Brooke 52:25 I think it's important to listen to what people say on the other side. So, I try and understand the arguments and can have a conversation back and hopefully bring them into the light. Margaret 52:34 Yeah, that's legit. But wait, what if we instead created an increasingly more insular and pure subculture? Brooke 52:44 It seems problematic I'm gonna say, but... Margaret 52:47 What? Brooke 52:47 That's probably for another episode. Okay. Margaret 52:50 Okay, I'll stop derailing you, Casandra Johns 52:52 it would only be the three of us. Everyone else is wrong in some way. Margaret 52:56 I think that that's probably true. I'm sorry Bursts, who's doing our editing, I'm sorry Inmn, who produce the podcast. Brooke 53:06 You better apologize to all the patrons right now too. Margaret 53:10 Yeah, if you want to be pure and join our pure culture. A $20 a month level. Brooke 53:19 No. No cults. No cults. Margaret 53:22 Everyone keeps saying that to me. Okay. Brooke 53:26 That's why I took away that book on cults that I showed you the other day, you don't need the help. Margaret 53:32 Please continue. Brooke 53:33 Oh, God. Right. So so the arguments against it. Like you were saying, you know, one of them's about the, "I don't want my tax dollars going to that," which, like you said, is a pretty wild argument, because we don't get to decide directly where our tax dollars go. There's plenty of things that I'm in...None of us like taxes...And amongst us, especially like, abolish the government abolish the taxes, but even people who are okay with taxes as a functioning society, we still, you know, you don't get to decide where each dollar goes. What's your question face? Casandra 54:10 You mean when I vote, it doesn't directly change things? Brooke 54:14 Oh, God, another topic for another whole podcast episode about how about how it actually works out there in the world. Yeah, so that argument is kind of wild. And then the other one that I that I have seen is the, you know, "Why should anyone else pay for their choices?" especially if it's their...other people's bad choices or whatever. Which again, is wild to me. Margaret 54:42 You mean the bad choice to loan $60,000 to a 17 year old? Brooke 54:47 Yeah, seems like maybe that should be not a not a thing. Margaret 54:51 Well, I just but it's a bad financial like, like come on. That's that's a that's part of loaning money is you take into account like, there's risk involved. It is a risky loan to loan a 17 year old money. Anyway, yep. Sorry. Brooke 55:07 Yeah, I saw one of my, you know, probably Gen X or Boomer aged relatives saying, "Hey, I signed up for the loans at 18. And I read the document, and I knew what I was getting myself into. And it was a choice. And it's everybody's choice." And it's so many bad takes so many bad takes... Casandra 55:24 I wonder how much their loan was compared to mine? Brooke 55:27 Yeah, and there's that. Casandra 55:28 I'm gonna guess significantly less. Brooke 55:30 Yeah, so let me get into a little bit of data here, because I love data. Let's talk also about what the loans are and aren't, because if you're only looking at the headlines there's a lot that's not captured in there. The number we see tossed around is the $10,000 of forgiveness. And that's up to $10,000 of forgiveness. So there's caveats on that, because there's a income limitation as to when you can get it. And it decreases a little bit based on what your income is. But also, if you were awarded a Pell Grant, at any point in your college education, you can actually get up to $20,000 in forgiveness, and Pell Grants are a federal grant, not a loan, but a grant, i.e. a gift, basically, that only go out to the lowest income kind of folks. So, if you qualified for a Pell Grant at the time that you also took out loans, then you can get a higher amount of loan forgiveness. And then it also only is it takes effect for people who had taken out a loan prior to June 30th of this year 2020. So if you're in school, right now, if you're just starting this fall, it doesn't apply to you. You had to have taken out a loan prior to that to qualify. Some of the cool things about it, though, are that it helps kind of all kinds of federal loans, which 95% of student loan debt is a federal loan. Only about 5% is private loans. So that's most people with loans, although it's only again, those income requirements, but that's still a large portion of folks. Where's the other one I was looking at? Oh, there's a type of loans that parents can take out to help their kids. So most of the federal loans that folks sign up for, they are signing up themselves, right, you're putting yourself in debt for it, even though you're only 18, or whatever. But parents can also get a loan, there's a federal loan called Parent PLUS, that you can take out to help your kids and those loans also qualify for forgiveness. And that is different than the student's loan. So if you're a parent who took out one of those loans for your kid, and your kid also took out loans, you both separately qualify for forgiveness. Casandra 57:48 Is this...Sorry, is this...I hadn't heard of those parent loans. Is the thought that they're taking out a loan to help pay for their kids college? Brooke 57:56 Yeah. Casandra 57:57 Okay. So, just like, "Look, another loan we can give to someone." Brooke 58:02 Yeah. And it's a federal federal one again, and you know, federal loans overall are, at least compared with like private student loans you can get they're way more reasonable, super low interest rates, longer repayment periods, you can get restructuring, if you're having financial issues or get a pause on it, there's more ways to get them forgiven, like working for a nonprofit or in the private sector, stuff like that. So, these are sort of nicer loans, which is one of the faults that people point out with it is that the the private loans that are the more of the predatory style loans, like we talked about with the IMF earlier, you know, higher interest rates, they don't care about how much you are or aren't making necessarily, they just say you have to start paying it at this point, and you have to pay this much and they'll come after your car or your dog or your firstborn child or whatever in order to get their repayments. And this federal forgiveness doesn't affect those folks. Margaret 58:59 Would you say that our listeners should take out predatory loans from payday loan places in order to buy rain barrels? Brooke 59:08 No. Because you should never support predatory loan places. You can steall from those places. Margaret 59:16 What if we, what if we start a rain barrel loan fund that offers predatory rates? Brooke 59:28 Then I would no longer call you an anarchist. You'd be an An-Cap [Anarcho-capitalist] and out of the club. Casandra 59:33 Is this you? Is this you segwaying into an ad break for our sponsors? Margaret 59:41 No, i was my brain's poisoned by how the fact that my other podcast is...has actual ad breaks. Casandra 59:48 Duh Duh duh duuuuh! I'm rain barrels! Brooke 59:49 Hey, if rain barrels would give away some, loan some rain barrels, I would let them plug a little ad on this ad-free anarchist podcast network. Yeah. Margaret 1:00:01 Yeah. Although, I'm holding out for big IBC tote. Brooke 1:00:05 Yes. Margaret 1:00:05 Cause IBC totes are 275 gallons, sort of 55 gallons. And that's what I showered with for the past three years, an IBC tote available from wherever you're willing to go get a really cheap thing that used to be full of detergent and wash it out vaguely. Margaret 1:00:11 Half an hour's drive, we can go grab some. Casandra 1:00:25 Wait, really? Margaret 1:00:26 Yeah, yeah. Casandra 1:00:28 We should talk about that after we're done doing a podcast which we are in fact doing right now. Margaret 1:00:32 Oh right, okay. Brooke 1:00:33 Okay, one of the other things that comes up when folks talk about student loans is you get like the the Boomer types that will say, you know, "I worked a part time job when I was in school and paid off my...paid for my school while I was going to school." And I think we all know that that's just not possible to do anymore. And that's because of the cost of education and how it has skyrocketed. So, if you look at the difference from 70s, 80s, or so, of like median income in the US with the average household makes, versus the average cost of college, the average income has gone up like half again as much since the 80s or so, whereas the cost of college is four times more expensive than it was. And then the other argument that comes up that people make is, well, "Everybody thinks they have to go to college. Now, you know, everybody's trying to enroll in college, not everyone needs to go to college. But everyone tries to." And when you look at the numbers of like, the portion of the population that has that's going to college and how that's changed in the last like 50 years, it's been pretty much steady for the last 25 years. It rose in the 60s, late 60s was kind of flat in the 70s then started to rise again through the 80s and the mid 90s. Probably because of the series of recessions that we had that were really severe in some places, like Oregon had a really severe recession. And when there was a recession, more people go back to school, but it hit a peak in the mid 90s And then dropped for a while and then has kind of been staying around that peak, on average, over the last 25 years. That and that's the number of people has gone up, but the portion of the population, right, so as a percent of the total population has actually been quite stable for a while now. Margaret 1:02:30 And like, I'm a big fan of having not gotten a degree, right? But, I even had a dream again last night where I like dropped out of school again. And I was like, "Fuck you, I quit." And it was really, but, but it's something that I think that a lot of people don't talk about when they talk about being like, "Oh, well, not everyone needs a college degree," or whatever it is they they don't understand that like how important upper higher education is to upward mobility and upward class mobility, especially for like people who are like, marginalized among other identities besides class, like specifically around race, you know, like, there's...so I think that...I think it's something that we can accidentally get a little to like, "Yeah!" like, you know, people get very, like "I'm so blue collar, everyone should drive forklifts," instead of going and studying gender studies or whatever, right? And just like not fucking getting how important class mobility can be for people and how that functions most of the time. And so I get really annoyed when people are like, "No one should ever go to college," or whatever, because I'm like, that is a really that is a position that comes from a specific place for some people, you know? Casandra 1:03:44 Yeah. Brooke 1:03:46 I think people also forget in that the fact that college classes can include courses for some of those types of jobs. So,talking about like the other four year degree, an apprenticeship. You know, if you're an electrician or a sheetmetal worker, you're probably you're going to take some classes and probably through a community college as part of your education to get those kinds of jobs. If you're doing a forklift or CNC, you have to take a course and they can be three months, six months, twelve months courses, and often again, through community college. So even though you're not getting a degree, you're still doing some post secondary education. Margaret 1:04:29 Yeah. Casandra 1:04:30 Do you want to know how much debt I have for my community college? Brooke 1:04:34 Oh, this is gonna hurt. Casandra 1:04:36 Forty Grand. Brooke 1:04:38 Shut the front door. Casandra 1:04:41 And that's like with grants and shit because like I good grades and all that. I was on the 'President's list.' Brooke 1:04:45 For a frame of reference, listeners, Casandra graduated more recently, like last couple years, or three or whatever it was, but fairly recently. Yeah. When I was looking at the numbers, here's my personal anecdote. The cost have the four year degree that I got 15 years ago. I'm taking some community college classes now. And if I did an associate's degree, it would cost me as much for two years of community college today as it did for a four year degree with two majors 15 years ago. Yeah, the cost has has exponentially risen again. Four times. It's it's four times higher than it was like 40 years ago. It's risen more than anything, any other good or commodity. The cost of college has increased. Margaret 1:05:40 I will say, my, like optimistic, putting on my optimism hat. I don't like hats. That's probably why I'm not great. Okay. When I think about like some of the most...the strongest that leftist movements, anarchist movements, I know more about anarchist movements, I do other movements. The strongest they've been is like often, while popular education, or the existing educational infrastructure is failing everyone. And, you know, like a lot of work around reframing education in both France and Spain was coming out of anarchists in the late 19th and early 20th century in the modern school movement, all this stuff, and people were getting, like, literally murdered for advocating for things like "What if boys and girls are taught in the same classrooms and shit," and it's like awild idea that anarchists came up with. And like not talking about God in the classroom. Oh, my god, we're actually losing on all of these. Okay, anyway. It's like, "Remember the fight for an eight hour workday?" And I'm like, "Man, I wish I had eight hour workday right now." Okay, and but, but so that's like, my like, my, like, optimism is that like, in a burned for us new weeds grow? You know, I think that there's a lot of opportunity for alternative educational systems, but not in a way where they could like, immediately step in and be like an accredited university that allows the sort of class mobility that we're talking about, or whatever, right, but like, it does seem like mutual aid schooling and education are like, probably in a better position to take a foothold than they used to be. I hadn't really...I'd only previously thought about this more for like, grade school type stuff, especially for the whole, like how public school is like also kind of like low key just like childcare. And like, hadn't quite thought about this in terms of like, how it ties into, you know, continuing education, but it could, we could have Anarchy University, and then everyone could have degrees and okay, I don't know where I'm going with this. Brooke 1:07:45 Anarcho-U. Casandra 1:07:45 You need another project, Margaret. So... Margaret 1:07:51 No, dear listener, you need a project. At Projects-R-Us, we will give you a project. Brooke 1:08:00 Wrong podcast. Wrong, wrong podcast. Margaret 1:08:02 Replace the continuing education system!. Brooke 1:08:04 Nope, wrong podcast. Margaret 1:08:04 Okay, fine. Brooke 1:08:06 Yeah, so, Casandra 1:08:07 That'd be like your ideal job, I think. Margaret 1:08:09 it really would be, yes, I have way better at coming up with things that I can dedicate my entire life to than dedicating my entire life to any of the individual things. Brooke 1:08:22 Oh, maybe, maybe you didn't need to start the cult just to find leaders fo

Episode Notes [“We Don't Talk About Bruno,” from Encanto] Trent: Hello everyone, and welcome to Episode One of Pop Chaos, your one-stop shop for pop culture. If you did your homework, you just listened to episode zero. We're not introducing ourselves again. But I'm Trent. Bailey: I'm Bailey and you just said we're not going to introduce ourselves, yet here we are. Trent: This week we're talking about Spider-Man, right? No Way Home. Bailey: We are going to talk about a lot of things. Spider-Man… Trent: Encanto. Bailey: Encanto for sure. Trent: What was the other thing? Bailey: There were some other things we were going to talk about. Trent (overlapping): Such as? Bailey: For one, Elmo, I wanted to bring up. Trent: Oh yeah, you need to explain to me what is going on with Elmo. Bailey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then maybe just like some, some other shows that are big and coming up right now. I was thinking about mentioning, you know, Succession. Euphoria season two is coming out. Trent: Oh yeah, have not seen Succession. Bailey: Well, I don't know. The big two we're gonna talk about are Encanto and Spider-Man-slash-Andrew Garfield. The resurgence. He's big right now. Very big. Trent: That's true. Should we – we should just get right into Spider-Man. He is huge, actually, on Twitter and like TikTok. There – I saw a tweet that was like, “The K-Pop-ification of Andrew Garfield.” I think people were like, “Stream The Amazing Spider-Man,” to get him that recognition. Bailey: Well, so I'm curious. I just want to double-check real quick how old he is. Trent (overlapping): We'll embed that. Bailey: I want to check how old he is. Trent (overlapping): He's like in his late 30s, I want to say. Bailey: Ooh! So I looked him up on Google. Trent (in the background): 45. Bailey: And unfortunately, he's shorter than both of us. That's … yeah… Trent (gasping): With his hair, it's fine. Bailey: He's 5'10”. That's true. His hair like defies gravity, so. Trent: Wait, no but how old is he? Bailey: He is 38 years old. Trent: What'd I tell you? Late 30s. Bailey: Yeah, he looks great for his age. Did you watch – sorry, we were gonna talk about Spider-Man. But did you watch tick, tick… BOOM!, because it's on topic? Trent: No, so I saw like the trailer. Bailey (in the background): Okay. Trent: I did not – okay. Not to bring up Andrew Garfield's hair again. I cannot get past his hair in the trailer. It looks, I think personally – Bailey: It looks like Jonathan Larson's hair though, who he's portraying. Trent (overlapping): I know. But that doesn't mean I like it. Bailey: Okay. So you're just not gonna watch the entire movie because of his hair? It was too bouncy? Trent: Correct. Bailey: It did … it did look… Trent: It looks like he's like a mad scientist and it blew up. Bailey: Yeah, it looks like he touched one of those little balls that makes you – WOOOOO! Trent: Those electric balls – Bailey (joking): But like not in a gay way. Yeah, and it also – Trent (laughing): …Bailey… Bailey: I dunno, it also looks like … I don't know, I think it looked kind of bouncy, kind of good, like kind of shampoo commercial sort of… Yeah. Trent (overlapping): Anyway, Spider-Man: No Way Home. Bailey (in the background): Yeah, enough about Andrew Garfield's hair. Trent: Andrew Garfield's done. What did you think of No Way Home? Bailey (overlapping): Well okay, first off, spoiler alert. Like if you have not seen it.  Trent: Oh, yeah, obviously. If you haven't seen Spider-Man or Encanto, we're talking about both of those. Bailey: Yeah, let me not shame you though because if you don't want to go to the movie theater right now, that is a-okay. But also, what are you doing? You got to see this g-dang movie. I don't know. I… I did like, I binge-watched all the other Spider-Man movies. Trent (overlapping): Like all – like, all seven of them? Bailey: Yeah, pretty much. For the most – yeah, I think I missed a couple the first time around. But then after the movie, I watched – I've seen all of them. Mostly, my goal was to re-watch the Tobey [McGuire] ones because I was never a huge fan of those. So I had to re-watch them.  Trent (overlapping): Not that. Bailey: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Trent: It's okay. So I'm actually on the – well, I know I've definitely seen the Tobey ones. I actually don't know if I've seen Andrew Garfield. Sorry. Bailey (overlapping): Are you f-ing serious? Trent: And I know for a fact that I have not seen Spider-Man: Homecoming or Spider-Man: Far From Home. I did not see those. Bailey (overlapping): How are we friends? And you went to go see No Way Home? Trent: Yeah, cuz my friends were going and I was like, “Lemme…” Bailey: You… so if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too? Is that what I'm hearing? Trent: I would. Listen, why are they jumping off the bridge, you know? Bailey: Trent. Trent: No Way Home, because he's jumping off a literal bridge, yeah. Trent (in the background): Let's investigate. Investigative journalism. I would. But I liked it. Bailey: No, I'm sorry. Okay. On Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man. I like them. I like them. I appreciate them, the nostalgia. The first one I think is really great. Mary Jane slayed. Her hair … I love her. This is literally the most irrelevant thing to the actual movies, but I love her hair in the first movie like the dark like orange. I love it. The third movie, I … it's painful to watch. It's really, really hard to watch. Trent: It's been a while but I looked at the Rotten Tomatoes scores like a while ago and it's like the lowest by far. I'm like, what happened to that movie? Bailey: Yeah, well, I don't, I don't dictate my life and what I watch by Rotten Tomatoes scores. Trent: Oh no, I don't either. Bailey: Because I think that they – no yeah – I think they totally lie all the time – Trent (in the background): For the reporting. For the reporting. Bailey: And I'm a huge fan of a good bad movie. You literally can look behind me here. Trent (in the background): Oh, for sure. Bailey: There's a Ma poster on the wall. It's one of the best good-bad movies ever made. But the third Spider-Man movie is genuinely just too hard to watch. Like I had to look away like when he's like doing the whole walk down the street. He's got like the “Where are you?” emo hair. I can't, he looks so greasy! Trent (in the background): That is so funny! His weird emo hair? It's so bad. Bailey: Yeah, so I don't know. Trent: Okay, my question – who is your Spider-Man? Like out of the three, who is your Spider-Man? Bailey: I think you know the answer to that. Trent: Well then why don't you say it? Bailey: It's Andrew Garfield. Trent: Of course. Mine is Tobey. Bailey: Because I grew up, I – Okay, I loved the Andrew Garfield Spider-Mans and I always had to defend them and I'm so glad that people are finally recognizing that he is amazing. Like I'm sorry, the second one was a hot mess, there was just too much going on. That's not his fault though. Acting-wise, he ate. He ate and the thing for me is, for Andrew Garfield Spider-Man … especially like … the characters have so much chemistry. They do, specifically Gw– you have to, like you have to watch them. The Andrew Garfield – Trent: Wait, I actually think I saw the first one cuz I remember the scene where like he's at Gwen's house for dinner. That's all I remember though. Bailey: Yeah, eating the branzino. The fish. Yeah, so the first like for example, the first Spider-Man, when I'm watching like Toby like I watched all three of those movies … I did fall asleep a little bit during the second one … I'm so sorry. Trent (overlapping): Of course. You missed the lore, you missed the most important part, missed Doc Ock's background. Bailey: I'm so sorry! I did like the second one, though. But, it didn't make me feel that much. It really didn't, and I love Willem Dafoe too, like he's one of my favorite actors. I love him in like some of my favorite video games like Beyond Two Souls. He's amazing. He's such a good actor. He slayed in No Way Home. He was so good. But the gag is is that – Trent: What's the gag? Bailey: The gag is that the Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man makes me feel so much, like I cried twice. I cried when Uncle Ben dies. It makes you feel so much, like they build up so much with the characters. When like Uncle Ben died in Tobey's movies, I did not cry, I didn't feel anything. Trent (sarcastic): Uncle Ben died? gasp Bailey: gasp Guys, I'm so sorry! So sorry! Trent: Iconic Spider-Man moment, oops! Bailey: Oh my God, Spider-Man wears red and blue? Oh my God! Trent: Wait, he's a spider? And a man? Bailey: Wait, a spider bit him? Oh, god… No, but literally like it makes me feel so much. And Gwen, like Emma – Emma Stone is incredible. Trent: That's true, she's great as Gwen. Bailey: I just rewatched Easy A because I've been seeing so many Gwen Stacy edits and I was like, “I love this woman and I need to rewatch.” Because she just, she ate. She's so good, and she and Andrew, obviously they dated. All the Spider-Mans, they've all like dated their Mary Janes or whatever. Trent (overlapping): They did? I didn't know that. Oh, I guess that makes sense. Bailey: Yeah, they all have. Really? Yeah, MJ and Tobey – like Tobey and Kirsten Dunst dated, Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone dated, and now Tom Holland and Zendaya, yeah. Trent: Wait, iconic. Bailey: Yeah, so. But I don't know. I just think that Gwen and Andrew had the best chemistry, and they were so, so good. And I love those movies so much. Trent: That's fair, that's fair. I would say mine is Tobey, just because that's the one I remember seeing, that's what I grew up on. And I have not, I don't know. Andrew Garfield, when I watched it at the time, doesn't hit for me. That was like seven years ago, so I don't remember. Tom Holland, straight up did not see any of them. Bailey: Okay, he's good. I think they were just … they kind of got off to a slow start, in my opinion. Trent: I think … do you think it's weird that … I feel like it's a requirement for Spider-Man to have thin lips. Have you noticed that? I noticed that in No Way Home, they all have tiny little stick lips. Bailey: Trent, Trent, Trent! When I tell you that I saw … so I saw No Way Home twice. And when I was watching with my brother, I had to lean over to him halfway through and, like for the record I have very small lips. Not Spider-Man small but pretty small. But, I leaned over to my brother who was watching with me and I was like, I think they might have like one-and-a-half pair of lips between all three of them. Trent (in the background): Literally! Bailey: I was like, “Bert …” And like not to shame for their – like, they're all very attractive, beautiful men, but I was like, “This is a pattern. This is for sure a pattern.” Trent: It's – we're just observing their faces. Bailey: Yeah. And they're all, again, they're very attractive men. But it's just a pattern. Like for some reason, like I don't know if the spider just like [slurp] sucked all the lip. Like just sucked the lusciousness out of their lips. Trent: It's like the opposite of lip fillers. Bailey: Yeah, the spider bite is actually the opposite of lip fillers, so if you're wanting smaller lips, fun fact… Trent: Go get bit by a spider. That's a joke! For medical purposes, for legal purposes. Don't get bit by a spider. Bailey: Don't. Well, if you want to, you can come to my apartment because we had a spider problem at the beginning of the year. My address is – no, I'm just kidding. I want your general thoughts on the movie though. Trent: I liked it. It was fun. It wasn't like my mind was blown. But it was fun. It was, it was nice seeing all of the … not the enemies but the villains from the – pff, the enemies – the bad guys from the other movies. I thought that was really fun. Especially the Tobey ones because it's been a while for them. And of course, oh my gosh, in the theater when Andrew Garfield entered like everyone went crazy. Bailey: Yuuup, yeah. At my theater, too. Trent: And then not as many people went crazy for Tobey, but I went crazy for Tobey. Bailey: Yeah, spoilers, but everyone went crazy for Andrew. Everyone went crazy for Tobey at mine. Everyone went crazy for – Trent (in the background): Tom Holland! No. Bailey (laughing): Daredevil for all like… yeah. Oh my god, when Iron Man came back? It was crazy! Trent (in the background): You can't say that! Bailey: Oh my god, when Snape killed Dumbledore! Trent: Spoiler! We're not talking about Harry Potter here. Bailey: No, but okay, my general thoughts on the movie. Okay, so when I rate like … so fun fact about me, I rate movies and I post them on my Instagram story for like the three people that actually care about them. And when I rate Marvel movies on my story, I definitely do it like compared to other Marvel movies. It's not like – Trent: That's fair. Oh yeah, ‘cuz they're all like, just fun. They're all like, not serious. Bailey: Yeah. Yes. So I don't people know that but that's what I do when I'm rating them. I just like compare them to other similar movies, and I gave it a nine out of 10 and that's because I kind of had low expectations. I thought like … well, what I thought all of like, I wanted to lower expectations so that I could get excited, but like I thought that they were going to make it super fan service-y, which like it was a little bit, but like I felt like the plot like justified it. Trent (in the background): It was coherent, it made sense. Bailey: It was super coherent. Exactly, exactly. Trent: Okay, speaking of ratings, what did you rate Encanto? Because I feel like we should move on. Bailey: Okay, wait, last thing. Last thing before we talk about Encanto because Spider-Man: No Way Home gets me passionate, but I was just gonna say that I think Andrew carried with the acting. Trent: Okay, I can see that. Bailey: Sorry. I do think he was the funniest. He improvised lines. I watched a couple interviews … Trent: He improvised the “I love you,” right? Bailey: He improvised the “I love you” line. He ate. When he was talking about Uncle Ben, he teared up, I started tearing up. When he saves Zendaya and he was crying. Trent (in the background): Oh my God. Callback. Bailey: Do you know what I mean? When he saved MJ. Trent (in the background): Yeah, that was great. Bailey: Oh my god, I got so emotional. He brought the emotion to that, in my opinion. And he was the funniest, which are the two things that I care about most so I thought he definitely carried. Trent: Okay. Bailey: Encanto. Trent: Encanto. Bailey: You go first. You – give me your thoughts. Trent: Give me your thoughts? Um, I really liked Encanto. I thought it was a lot of fun. I mean, okay, first things first it is a Disney movie, so it is pretty straightforward. Once again, I have to preface this with I know that it is literally a children's movie. But I did not like that they – I felt like they did a lot of telling and not showing. Like, especially for the family members and the first song. They literally have a song that's like, here's this family member and here's their like superpower. Well they're not superpowers but you know what I mean. And it's like, “Okay, why don't you show us that” instead of having Stephanie Beatriz sing about it, you know what I mean? But that was, I would say that was my one gripe with it. I thought it was, that it was really fun. I thought it was really endearing. The music is really good. I was surprised at how good the music was. And, yeah, I love that Disney movies are branching … they're not just all, you know, American. I like that it's a little bit more representative of actual, real-world people. So yeah, highly recommended. If you have Disney+, go watch it. So, what did you think of Encanto? Bailey: Yeah, so I can see what you're saying with the first song, again I'd have to go back and watch it because I don't know, for some reason the whole like first half didn't stick with me as much. I think maybe that's why, cause there's a lot of like exposition. That's the right word, right? Trent: That's fair. Yeah, it was like, “Here's our family. Here's where we live. Here's what's going on. Oh yeah, here's Maribel. Spoiler alert: she has no gift. Everyone hates her.” No, just kidding. Just her grandma. Bailey: I mean, the cast? So good. Stephanie, I think, Beatriz is incredible. Loved her in Orange Is the New Black, watched that in middle school. So good. What's her face? Oh no, Diane Guerrero! She's one from Orange is the New Black and what's her face? Yeah, Stephanie is from Brooklyn Nine-Nine and other things. Flip those two and their projects, but they're so incredible. I love them both. Trent: Oh my gosh, they're so good. The cast is so well … Bailey: Sid the Sloth slayed as Bruno.  Trent: No, for real. Bailey: So good. So good. And Bruno was kind of cute. I'm not gonna lie. Bruno was kind of fine. Sorry. I had to put it out there.  Trent: Okay. Bailey: In my humble opinion. Trent: So, just, if there was someone living in your walls listening to your every move … Bailey: I would want them to look like Bruno. Was that the question? Trent: Would you get with that person, yes or no? Bailey: Well, besides all the spiders … all the spiders and cockroaches and stuff in our walls, yeah. If there was a person as well, I would want them to look like Bruno. laughs So if anyone's listening right now …  Trent (laughing): Not gonna unpack that. Bailey: No but, okay, going off of Bruno, like … Trent: I like Bruno. The final song, when he started singing I was like, “Okay, Lin-Manuel Miranda.” Bailey: I was going to say … Trent: And then I looked up the Wikipedia cast list. It's not Lin-Manuel. Bailey: I didn't even sound like him.  Trent: To me, it sounded 100% like him. Bailey: It didn't sound like him, it sounded like the part was written for Lin to sing. Trent (overlapping): Oh, fully. 100%.  Bailey: I know that Lin was crying and shitting bricks when he did not get on the cast. Trent: I've seen so many memes and Tweets that are like, “You know someone had to tie him down to stop him from casting himself as Bruno.” And no shame against that. I mean, as you should.  Bailey: Yeah no, he definitely ate. I would say some more thoughts … it evoked so many emotions within me, which is what I really want from a movie like that. I'm for sure, on the down-low, kind of a Disney adult, at least like with these movie musicals. I love Frozen. I love Frozen II. I literally have Frozen II on vinyl behind me over there. I love the soundtrack so much. “Lost in the Woods” by Jonathan Groff was on my top songs for 2020. So incredible. Moana also. So that's the thing for me … comparing Moana, which is another Lin-Manuel Miranda project, in terms of soundtrack, I don't think [Encanto] lived up to the soundtrack. I think Moana had a better soundtrack in my opinion. But I do think that this movie made me far more emotional. Like, oh my God, when Bruno showed his little extended table that he had with the rest of them. Trent (literally yelling): That was so sad. And he had carved a plate into it. Bailey: I sobbed. I sobbed and at the end, for like the last half an hour straight, I just had tears in my eyes. It made me so emotional. It was such an incredible movie overall, but there was something … I was gonna say something else about it. I have a lot of thoughts. Trent: I'm sure you do. Bailey: Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about everything. Trent: Should we talk about the music? Bailey: Well, okay, before we talk about the music, I will say the one thing that – and I talked to my friend about this as well, we were texting about it and she had the same thought – is we both thought that they weren't gonna get their powers back at the end. We thought that that was like, the whole point is that they kind of realized that they were all that they needed. They didn't need these magic powers. And then it was like BOOP and our powers are back. And we were just kind of like, “Oh.” Trent: No, for real. I definitely feel like the ending was a little bit, I don't wanna say forced, but a little bit rushed. For sure. Just because the movie is already … it's like over two hours. [Editor's Note: Encanto's runtime is 102 minutes.] Bailey: They fit so much. To be fair, it's kinda like No Way Home. They fit so much into one movie. Trent (overlapping): No, for real, they fit so much into that movie. Bailey: So creds. Creds. Trent: It feels like after the character of Bruno was introduced, it's like a crash course between like … she – Mirabel – frees Isabela from her mental constraints of perfection or whatever and then she fights with her abuela but then she makes up and then the house goes down and she makes up with her abuela and then she's like, “I love you all anyway.” Bailey: It did happen very fast. Trent: It's like we didn't see … once again, the showing not telling it's like … we didn't actually see the character development happen. It was just kind of like … Bailey: Before they got their powers back as well. That's the thing is, now we see that, yay, they all like understand that they just see their family. Trent: Yeah, no, narratively I feel like that would have had more of an impact. Bailey: Yeah, I guess we're supposed to understand that now, they've grown to accept that they aren't just their powers. And so that's why they get their powers back because now they know inside they're more than their powers. That's what they realize. Trent (laughing): But they still have them. Bailey: But then they get them back and so it's kind of like okay, I guess I get why they did that. But it did kind of, I don't know, maybe it's a good thing that it defied my expectations a little bit, but I don't know I think I might have liked it more if they just realized that they were all they needed and … themselves with other powers. Trent: Obviously, I'm happy that it had a happy ending, like imagine how unsatisfying it would have been if Abuela was like, “No, I don't know what you're talking about.” Bailey: It's a Disney movie babes. Trent: Of course. But I definitely wish they would have spent more time on that. On just seeing Abuela's thought process of, “Oh wait, am I really like in the wrong here?” And then she's like, “Yes, I am.” Instead of … because it just felt like they had that fight and then Mirabel walked off to the river and then Abuela comes up and is like, “I went through a whole character arc in like five minutes off screen.” Bailey: That's true, but it does, I mean, I don't know, yeah. Again from the perspective of “It's a kids movie” … Trent: It is a Disney movie. It is a kids movie, so it needs to be easy … Bailey: Yeah, but I see what you're saying. I was all confused as well when she just pulled up and she went from being completely angry and enraged at her to, “Oh wait, I'm so sorry.” Trent: It was like a button flipped and she was like, “You know what? I have been bad.” Bailey: Which, good. You know, it's good that it happened. Yeah, for real. It was definitely a “good for her,” “good for them” kind of movie, so. But yeah, moving on to the soundtrack, top song, number one song … Trent: What's your top song? Bailey & Trent (simultaneously): “We Don't Talk About Bruno” Trent: Yes we do. Bailey: We do talk about how we don't talk about Bruno … Trent: That song is like “Let It Go.” It's the standout song. It is so good. I have had it on re-peat. Just constantly playing. And it's so good. Every single verse is, individually, it's like chef's kiss and then you get to the end and they all combine and there's so many little details in the music. Ugh, it's so good. Yeah. I swear, it's like laced with something addictive because it is so, so good. Bailey: That is the one song where I was listening to it and I had no critiques at all. Because I know for some of them like “Surface Pressure” I really like. That song made me very emotional and I think that actress, the voice actress, and also the character herself did a great job. I don't know, I thought it was really well portrayed and I like the fun little dancing number – I know that was kind of controversial – with the little donkeys and all that … I kind of liked it, it was fun. Trent: I liked that it was funny but it just felt weird that she was singing about like, “I have all this anxiety” and then meanwhile she's like busting out the choreo. Bailey: But it was kind of fun. It was representative of her inner conflict of how she has to keep going day to day feeling like this and putting on this show for everyone around her, right? Trent: Okay. Okay. Bailey: You know what I mean? Trent: Come on, Socratic seminar. Bailey: Yeah. I just think that parts of it … the production were not my favorite thing. But the lyrics and the chorus and everything … again, I don't think was perfect but I mean like all Disney soundtracks it will probably grow on me because a lot of them do after the fact. But again, “We Don't Talk About Bruno” – elite. Top tier song. Should be in all the Disney Spotify playlists already, if it's not. Trent: I unironically hope that it charts or something because it's that good. Hidden gem: “What Else Can I Do?” It's little bit repetitive, I think. But it's a little bit poppier. It's a bit more upbeat. I think it's fun. Bailey: Yeah, I thought all the songs were great, again, but “We Don't Talk About Bruno” for sure the standout, and then “Surface Pressure,” again, I loved the chorus. Everything else … Trent: I will say, that first song that I was ragging on, “The Family Madrigal” … Bailey: It's good. Trent: It's expository, but the song itself is really fun and catchy. Bailey: Yeah. Yeah, it was a good introduction music-wise. Trent: But it's a fun song. It's definitely fun. I'm definitely like, singing “It's time for a grandkid round up.” That part, I'm like, “Yes, get the fire going.” Bailey: And I mean, she was kind of explaining to the kids, wasn't she? Like, that was kind of how they justified that. Wasn't she? I can't really remember. And music aside, can we talk about how the animation was beautiful? Trent (yelling again): So high quality! Bailey: It was gorgeous. Trent: All the swishes of the colorful skirts.  Bailey: It was gorgeous and I think more so than any other Disney movie I've seen, all the characters had such a distinct look. It wasn't one of those movies where they use the same model and everyone looks so similar. Everyone had such a distinct look and a distinct sound, distinct hair. They all had different beautiful curls and they were all animated so individually, and the dresses and the skirts. Trent: So gorgeous, such good character designs, such good animation. The voice actors really embody their characters. Bailey (overlapping): And all of the nature scenes as well. Trent: Oh my gosh, the animation was top tier. Absolutely. Bailey: Oh my god. What was a little kid's name? He was so cute. Trent: Which one? Oh, Antonio. The little cousin. Oh my gosh. Bailey (overlapping): Yeah, he was so cute. Trent: Wait, okay. Have you seen – I don't know if this is a thing on TikTok but I've definitely seen it on my YouTube – I think I'm on Encanto YouTube because I've seen so many fan edits of Camilo, which is the cousin. People are thirsting over him hard. Camilo and Dolores are people's favorites. There are so many fan edits. I've seen “Encanto but it's just Camilo for two minutes and 18 seconds.” Bailey: I saw someone saying that he looks like what's his face … Wybie from Coraline.  That's all I saw about him. Trent (overlapping): laughs Oh, not that. Camilo doesn't deserve that. Bailey: I saw a TikTok about that. And I was like .. I don't know, I guess they're both mischievous. That's really all I see in common with those two. Trent: Yeah, but I've definitely seen so many – like on YouTube – so many edits. Bailey: I've seen a lot of people thirsting for Luisa's voice actress, which I'm here for. Trent (overlapping): I don't know what she looks like but I would imagine it's for a good reason. Bailey: Okay, yeah, well you can definitely get up afterwards. She's beautiful and cool. Very cool. Trent: I've heard you thirsting about Bruno. laughs Bailey: Yeah. Yeah. On the record, yes. No, and I was going to say, I also have seen some Isabela ⨉ Elsa art. Trent (wheezing): What? Bailey: Yeah, cause a lot of people are headcanoning … making her … they believe she's a lesbian because she didn't want to marry what's his face, it was like a headcanon thing. Trent: Hmmmmm. I see it, okay. Bailey: And I don't know about the whole Elsa thing but since, obviously, she's the other character that people kind of gravitate towards and think that she's also a lesbian, I was like, “That's kind of cute” and the art was really cool. I was like, “Okay.” I don't know, no big thoughts about that. But I was like, “Alright.” I saw like two videos about it so I thought it was worth noting. Trent: Lowkey. Every single Disney movie like that, like Frozen, like Moana, like Encanto, they all follow the hero's journey. But the hero's journey is also a very clear allegory for coming out. So that's why, for all those who are like, “Oh my god, Elsa's a lesbian. Oh my god … Bailey: I'm not going to tell people what to think about them. Yeah. Trent: … Isabela's a lesbian.” It's like, is it supported by the text? No, but I could see it. Bailey: Didn't she start putting rainbow crap all over herself at the end? Trent: cackling Bailey: Yes. I'm pretty sure she did. She took her pink dress and … Trent: The Encanto pride parade. Bailey: Yeah, she literally started throwing all these colors on herself. I don't know – could it be any clearer? Yes, but … laughs Trent: Textually, no. Subtextually, I see it. Bailey (accidentally mispronouncing Encanto – my sincerest apologies): Any last Encanto thoughts? Do you want to talk about some other things? Trent (mocking): Not “En-can't-o” … Bailey: Um, Encanto. My bad. Trent: The Americanization … Bailey: You know what? Trent: No, I liked it. Top tier. Definitely up there among the greats like Moana, Frozen, all those animated … definitely one of the good ones. Bailey: Oh, for sure. Yeah, again as a lowkey Disney adult. I'm sorry I just love the soundtracks. I'm a huge sucker for a Disney soundtrack. I think they're so good, I'm so sorry. I'm not a sucker for you. I'm a sucker for Disney. [“We Don't Talk About Bruno” from Encanto] Trent : We're going to speedrun some smaller stuff just as it comes. Bailey: Are you going to put that in? Trent: Sure. We'll keep this in too. Bailey: Oh, okay. Yeah, topic speedrun. One two three. Let's go. No, number one – we don't talk about Bruno but you know who we do talk about? Trent: Who? Bailey: Elmo, because … laughs Trent: Stop. Okay, I've seen so many jokes on Twitter about Elmo and his rock. Can you explain to me the source? Bailey: Actually no, I don't understand the rock thing. I just see all these edits about – is it Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson? Trent: I don't know. I think it's like a physical piece of stone. Bailey: Does he have a pet rock? I thought he had a pet fish. Trent: I don't know. He does have a pet fish. But does he have a pet rock? Like … Bailey: I don't know. Elmo and The Rock? I just am here for the TikTok sounds like when he says “delicious.” That's my favorite. Do you know that one? Trent: I'm not on TikTok so … Bailey: gasps Oh my gosh, wait. Okay, so there's this audio where he's talking to – I think it's someone from the Hamilton cast because he's like …  Trent: Of course. Bailey: He's singing. It's on the show, it's this clip. Yeah. And so the guy's like, singing “Raise a glass to freedom,” and then Elmo's like, I was like, “Raise a glass? Glass of what?” and then he's like, “Apple juice,” and then Elmo's like, Bailey & Elmo: “Delicious.” Bailey: And it's so good. I feel like it's such a millennial thing to say but like it scratches my brain. So beautiful. NBC News has an article about it – “Elmo's feud with a pet rock.” Trent: Lowkey, I love when celebrities go on Sesame Street. Like there was a clip of Billie Eilish on Sesame Street. I was like … Bailey: gasps Oh my gosh … I do remember the rock now. Rocco! I do remember he has a pet fish and a pet rock I think. Okay, so I don't know why he's feuding. It must just be some clip of them beefing. I just love Elmo. I just think he's so great. I used to have a Tickle Me Elmo when I was little and I was a huge Sesame Street stan. Trent: That explains a lot. Bailey: Rosita was my favorite, I think. If I remember correctly. I loved her. Trent: I feel like I should know who that is. Bailey: She's the blue one? Fuzzy one? Trent: I think they're all fuzzy. Bailey: Okay, but … you know, that's not a great descriptor, actually, yeah. Trent  They're fuzzy. Okay? Can I get an actual detail? Bailey: No, but I do. I love Sesame Street. I was gonna say something else … oh, I dressed up in middle school. We dressed up as Sesame Street characters. I think I was … Trent: In middle school. Bailey: My friend Rachel … yeah it was, it was like seventh grade or something. And we thrifted these shirts and I went as … it was the two gay ones. Sorry. Trent: laughs Bert and Ernie? Bailey: Bert and Ernie … I was Ernie. I was Ernie, she was Bert. Trent: Listen, in the Sesame Street canon, they are …  Bailey: They're kind of gay. Trent: … asexual. No, they're asexual puppets. They are puppets who don't experience attraction cause they're not people. But no, they're gay. Headcanon. Bailey: But I will say, this is not necessarily relevant, but I was always more of a Muppet girl because The Muppets from 2011 that movie … Trent: Oh my God, Miss Piggy. Bailey: … formed my, shaped my life. “Man or Muppet.” Trent: Miss Piggy's an icon. Bailey: Yeah. That whole movie I have practically memorized and it's so great. And if you've never seen it – have you ever seen it? Trent: You're gonna yell at me. Bailey: gasps NOOOOOOO. Trent: Every single movie that you like I have not … you just have to assume that I have not seen it. Bailey: Genuinely when I was narrowing down my Letterboxd “Top Four” I almost put The Muppets in there. Trent: I do not have an enriched film vocabulary. Bailey: So, we're watching Ma. We're watching The Muppets (2011). Pick another poster, we can watch any of these. Trent: Oh, I've never seen Jennifer's Body. My friend tried to make me watch it but I didn't. Bailey: Okay, Jennifer's Body. Trent: We'll watch Phoebe Bridgers. No, just kidding. Bailey: Yeah, we'll watch Phoebe Bridgers. Have you ever seen Aquamarine? Trent: Yes, oh my god. Bailey: Classic. Trent: That one's great.  Bailey: That is what made me a Weezer stan, I think, subconsciously when I was like … I used to watch it on my iPod Nano. The screen was like this big and that's why I'm blind now because I would watch it on my iPod Nano. Oh, wait. Okay, speaking of older movies, I think I told you this, but I rewatched the Divergent series. Trent: You did tell me and I haven't seen it. Bailey: Yeah. Did you ever read it? Trent: No. I did watch … it was like a “Cinema Sins.” Wait, maybe I did watch the first one. Bailey: Oh, there's so many sins. Trent: I remember like intermittent clips. I don't know if I watched the movie or if I watched like a Cinema Sins review of the movie or an analysis of why it's bad. I don't know, something like that. But Veronica Roth, if you're listening, we at NBN, we remember you. We love you. Bailey (overlapping): Yeah, come on our podcast. Trent: We staNBN. Come on our podcast. You can call in. Bailey: Yeah. Although I will say, those movies, gosh golly gee, they're pretty not good. They weren't as bad as I thought they were gonna be because I'm a huge Hunger Games stan. I think those movies are incredible. Some of the best young adult movie adaptations ever if not the best. Harry Potter is also up there. I watched that over break – the Harry Potter thing that came out of HBO Max. Did you see that? Trent: Oh, the documentary? That was like very … J. K. Rowling-free. Bailey: It was pretty good … they used an old interview clip of her but, rightfully so, it was pretty J. K.-free. Trent: Someone in one of my Zoom classes talked about it and they were like, “There was one clip of J. K. Rowling but it was clearly dated.” Bailey: It was. They dated it. 2019. Trent: But you knew it was not recent because J. K. Rowling is like … over-canceled. She's like super canceled.  Bailey: Yeah, well and so overall that in particular … because I watched with my mom and I sobbed. Like, I bawled, and so to my mom and she's not even like a huge Harry Potter fan or anything. Trent: I'm not either. Everything you like, I'm like, I'm like never engaged in this. Bailey: I'm so sorry! I read them … they were like big series that I liked in like third grade/middle school. I was a huge. I really was. Ravenclaw. Not to be millennial in the chat but I am in fact a Ravenclaw … anyone out there? Trent: When you go to Northwestern!  Bailey: Yeahhhhhh. Trent: No, sorry. Bailey: No, so I didn't think it was the best documentary. It wasn't, like, amazingly produced or anything to be honest. I mean, there were some good parts. Trent: Not you flaming them. “It was poorly put together …  Bailey (loudly over Trent): BUT IT WAS KIND OF MESSY. Okay, they used – DID YOU SEE – okay, LET ME JUSTIFY MYSELF. Trent: … J. K. Rowling was in it.” Bailey: Let me justify myself because they used a photo of – speaking of Aquamarine – they used a photo of Emma Roberts instead of Emma Watson when she was a child. It was horrible. It was horrible and there were some other things as well that wasn't the best but, that being said, the actors bring the emotion. [The producers] took the actors and put them in the different sets and just had them talk to each other so they didn't have to do anything. The actors did it for them. That was great. That was great, but Divergent? Ehhhhh. Trent: Veronica Roth, we love you. Bailey: Veronica, we love you. If anyone wants to go rewatch Divergent, which I highly recommend because it was a fun experience, the worldbuilding is shi– terri– bad. Trent (over Bailey): loud laughter Bailey (also laughing): It's bad. After thinking about The Hunger Games, Harry Potter … Trent: Doesn't it take place in Chicago? Bailey (laughing): Yeah. Trent: So like … what's Northwestern doing in the Divergent universe? Bailey (hysterical): I don't know … I don't know what we're doing there. Trent: What's it … what's it called? Bailey: We're probably with the evil smart people. Trent: Yeah, what are they called? Bailey: Erudite? Erudite. Trent: Erudite. I was going to say Evangelical. Bailey: Yeah, we're the … we're the Evangelicals. Trent: We're the erudites, Northwestern. Bailey: No, but I do recommend watching the first movie, because I did in fact purchase it on Amazon so I can watch it whenever I want without ads BECAUSE the enemies to lovers with Theo James as Four and with Shailene Woodley is incredible. It's so good. That they do build up well. Everything else about it … not so much. Divergent, sorry we love you but. Trent: Okay, okay, any last minute … anything else you want to talk about before we send off? Bailey: I don't have anything big and crazy. I will say though, in the next episode I do maybe want to talk about Euphoria, even though I know you haven't seen it, because it'll be topical – season two is coming out tomorrow. Even though, I mean, it's coming out tomorrow whenever this is up it will have come out. But, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about Euphoria. Anyone who watches Euphoria has a lot of thoughts about Euphoria, and I'm making my roommate watch it for the first time. We're going to finish it tonight probably and it's a great show. It has many flaws, but it's a great show. With great acting. It really is. Trent: I just want to say I haven't seen it but the stuff that they get up to … I was not doing any of that in high school. Was I missing out? Should I have been doing hard drugs in high school? Bailey: I was going to say, not to be a Medill kid in the chat but I was grinding on the school yearbook … Trent: No, fully. Bailey: … I was not doing hard drugs. My hard drug was, in fact, yearbook. Trent: Oh my gosh, at the BHS news … Mr. Nellis if you're listening, this is where you got me. Bailey: I saw a TikTok that was so funny, it was like, “Do these kids ever, like …  Trent: … do homework?” Bailey: … okay well, that. But no kids in shows ever do homework. If anything they'll be doing homework when the scene begins and then they leave it. But they were like, “Do these kids ever just go get coffee? Go get boba?” No, they go get literal molly. That's what they do. Babe. Trent (imitating a Euphoria high schooler): “Let's get some ecstasy.” Bailey: I was telling my roommate when we were rewatching it because we're almost … we have two episodes left, basically, and I was like, “You know what I want to do? I want to give all of these characters a hug.” Trent: No, for real. For real. Bailey: Because they need it. They need it. They all do …  Trent: Hunter Schafer and Zendaya, I like … I just want to sit them down and be like … Bailey (interrupting, oops): … every character, well, except Nate. Every character … every other character. sees Trent does not know who Nate is Jacob Elordi. Trent: I don't know who that is. Bailey: Okay. Kissing Booth??? C'mon … Trent: I just want to sit them down and be like, “What do you need in your life? Do you need support? Do you need a hug? Do you like … what … where did we go wrong?” Bailey: Yeah. Specifically all of the women. Like you said, Hunter Schafer, Sydney Sweeney … I know we're saying the actors' names but not the characters' names, but whatever … Cassie … whatever. I want to give them all a large hug. So badly. Trent: Okay, maybe Euphoria episode next time. Bailey: Mmhmm. Yeah. Trent: Also, at some point, we are going to do a Taylor Swift episode.  Bailey: We are going to do a Taylor Swift episode. HOPEFULLY when the next Taylor's Version drops, which, knock on wood, is going to be Speak Now. Trent: knocks on wood  Bailey: Mmhmm. Trent: No, knock on wood it's going to be 1989. knocks on wood again Bailey: Noooo, Speak Now. Trent: Because we're both closet Swifties. Bailey: We are. We are. Trent: If you're my friends and you're listening to this, redact that. Bailey: You are not a “closet Swiftie.” You posted your top artists on … everyone knows. Everyone knows. Everyone knows babe. Trent: Out and proud as a Swiftie. Okay, but I think that's it. We're already at the half-hour mark. So, if you listened all the way through and you're here, we love you. You are a real one. Bailey: Mmhmm. Trent: Let one of us know because that probably means you know us in real life, if you're listening to this point. Bailey: Yeah. Follow … we don't have a podcast … any sort of social media but follow NBN … Trent (overlapping): Follow North by Northwestern on social media. Follow our twitter. Bailey: Follow us on Instagram if you feel like it. My Instagram is @baeisforbailey. Trent: Mine is @trent_br0wn. Bailey: Because I'm sure I'll be posting about this podcast on our Instagram so feel free to follow them as well. Trent: Alright, I think that's all we got so thank you for listening and … cue the outro music. [“We Don't Talk About Bruno,” from Encanto] Find out more at https://solved-by-science.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Every doctor is concerned about your vital signs, but a good doctor cares about your overall health. Your website deserves the same care, and Hey Check It is here to help- Hey Check It is a website performance monitoring and optimization tool- Goes beyond just core web vitals to give you a full picture on how to optimize your website to give your users an optimal, happy experience- Includes AI-generated SEO data, accessibility scanning and site speed checks with suggestions on how to optimize, spelling and grammar checking, custom sitemaps, and a number of various tools to help youStart a free trial today at heycheckit.comAUTOMATED TRANSCRIPTColleen Schnettler  0:00  Good morning, Michelle. Hey, Colleen, it's early here in California. But I am here for you.Michele Hansen  0:42  It's late here in Denmark, it is dark. It is not even five.Unknown Speaker  0:47  My goodness.Colleen Schnettler  0:48  So I think this week, I would like to talk to something I talk about something a little more serious. And I want to talk about you. Because you have been going through some stuff.Michele Hansen  1:02  Yeah, I have. It kind of occurred to me this week that I I don't I don't know, I might be going through burnouts. Or at least I have, like, way too much stress. Like, like, I feel like I'm DDoSing myself.Colleen Schnettler  1:22  I love that line, by the way. So first of all, I guess your best friend and podcast host has been telling you this for like eight months.Michele Hansen  1:33  Like, we're like you're gonna burn out. I'm like, I'm fine. And then our friends of ours were like, you know, after like, I launched something like, you know, especially infoproduct people, they're like, I went through like a depression after that I really burned out like, and I was like, I hear you but like, I'm special. I'm not gonna that's not gonna happen to me. You know, all think we're special. We all think we're special. And we all are special. But there are also things that everyone goes through. Um, yeah, I have so much going on in my life right now. And, and I think this, I mean, I Okay, so you've known this for a long time. But like, I I think it really started to become apparent to me that like, given everything I'm doing I have really like down prioritized taking care of myself. That was something I got really thinking about at founder Summit. And it's not just like a work life balance problem or a, you know, need to like join a gym problem. Like, I think it's like, bigger than that. But I don't really know, like, how do you unburn out? How do you do though?Colleen Schnettler  2:43  Let's take a step back. When you say you haven't deprioritize taking care of yourself, what did you use to do that? You don't do like you have stopped doing over the past year. And like what led to that. I'm curious how you got to where you are.Michele Hansen  3:00  I mean, so I really don't first of all, like I really don't work out as much like and I used to be someone who was like super active, like, I used to run to work, bike to work, play tennis, do gymnastics, soccer on top of that, like super, super active and have really become less active. And I don't know if that's the pandemic or like moving countries and my habits like change, you know, you have to establish entirely new habits. As I was talking to people about it founder summit who are nomads, they were saying that they didn't realize until COVID and they were forced to stay in one place. how stressful it had been to like, move places every couple of months and have to like refigure it all over again. Like oh, like where's the grocery store that I like? And like, can I get the food I like and you know, where's the gym that I like? Where can I work? Like all those kinds of like basic everyday questions become sort of stressful. Like I definitely feel like that like I didn't go to the dentist for 18 months. Mostly because it's like so like hack I have a package I've been trying to mail for three months and I'm just so overwhelmed by the idea of like figuring out the Danish postal system that it's still sitting at my desk. So like basic everyday things become really overwhelming when you're abroad. Yeah, I think like one of my habits changed but then I think I just have so much going on also that like you know I think the great thing about working for yourself is like if you want to take an hour lunch break and read a book like you can do that but like I have been feeling like I don't even have time to eat I don't have time to make myself healthy food like the idea of just like even cooking a piece of salmon or whatever like seems overwhelming and so like I have really allowed my health to like totally slip because I just feel like I don't have time for it but I also don't have those like sort of habit triggers I guess that I used to have you know if I was in my environment I was in you know, do Two years ago, for sure. And I think with everything that I have going on, that's like become really acute.Colleen Schnettler  5:09  So and you would lump. I mean, that's your physical health. But also you said you don't read books for pleasure. I mean, I think that's what you just said. So that's not that's your whole, not just do it like I do. Okay. Yeah. I mean, have you also, like, what about your, your mental health are you also are you still not having time to do the things you used to love that brought you joy.Michele Hansen  5:33  So I differentiate that, and I think this is like I've been, you know, so I'm obviously not an expert in this, I'm just somebody who's going through differentiating between burnout and depression, where, like, I actually feel like my mental health is pretty good. Like I've done I've done a lot of work on my mental health the past couple of years. Um, and, you know, depression is like, when you try to, you know, you try to get the energy to do the things that you liked, and then you don't get any enjoyment out of it, it's like the dopamine just doesn't even fire. Or if it does, it only lasts for a second. So whereas you know, a non depressed person, maybe you can go for a walk, and, and then you or you see a friend, and it kind of brightens you for the rest of the day, and at least helps you get through it. You know, when I've gone through depression, it's like, that enjoyment you get from that, like, you get like 30 seconds of enjoyment out of it, and then it's just gone. And you even feel worse than you did before, because you were expecting to make you feel good. And then it didn't, and then it just like spirals. I'm not in that state right now. It's more just like this constant feeling of stress. And like, I don't have enough time for anything. And feeling exhausted by that constant stress. But it's also not anxiety, either. Because an idea I guess I'm not I don't really know how to explain this. But like it's, it's not like worrying. And it's not like a tension, or No, I don't, I don't know how to explain it. But yeah, it's kind of it's gotten me to Google X. It's like, I don't know what this feeling is. And then I kind of, you know, I mentioned it to some friends of ours. And they're like, that's, that's the burnout. We were telling you was going to happen. And I'm like, oh, and then I'm like, so like, what is like the plan to like, get out of this? Like, is there like, what does your schedule look like when you were getting out of burnout? They're like, yeah, that's kind of like, you're trying to, like, make a schedule of it. Like, right. And one of our friends was, like, I Googled, you know, how to be a type B personality when I was going through.Unknown Speaker  7:49  It's amazing.Michele Hansen  7:51  Um, yeah, but I think it's kind of it's kind of weird. I was like, I don't even talk about this on the podcast, because it's like, I don't have a solution here. You know, I almost feel like, you know, I should have some sort of solution to give people but I don't I'm just kind of stuck in the middle of it. And, and just sort of talking it out, because I also, I don't, I feel like if people heard met, people mentioned, like having burnout, but like, and I guess if people know of like a good podcast or blog posts on the experience of burnout and how someone got through it, I would really love to read that. Because I feel like we don't really talk about it enough. So I'm kind of, I guess, trying to talk about it as a way of giving visibility to this thing that it turns out, a lot of my entrepreneur friends have gone through.Colleen Schnettler  8:46  Yeah, well, I think it's, I mean, as much as you're comfortable, I think it's good that you're talking about it. I you know, the one of the things. One of my takeaways from founder summit was I actually talked to quite a few people who went through massive burnout. And it seems to be just something that happens to us in our field in modern day, a lot, probably because we can work anywhere at any time. So we could theoretically be working all the time. But also, I, again, I think it's I'm sure it's a very personal journey to get out of it. But I feel like you need to take like, a month off. Let's talk about that.Michele Hansen  9:26  Yeah, and I think that's really where I'm struggling because I feel like I can't and but I'm also sort of, you know, somebody who's drowning and like, people are saying, hey, stop flailing. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that like, and that just makes me panic even more. But like, so where I, you know, the stuff I have going on, like, you know, so we have to co do and like, I want to stress that like, I still really enjoy working on geocode do and I think actually Mateus and I were talking about this last night, and he's like, you know, we've been running this for almost eight years. And he's like, I'm even still surprised that we still find it interesting, we still find it challenging, we still enjoy working on it we enjoy the customers we work with, we enjoy, you know, helping them and like, it's still a problem we're really, like, excited about solving. And, you know, it does not feel like a drag. And so like, so I have to do going on. Of course, there's this podcast and all of my book stuff and like, and that's a joy. But also, I've been putting pressure on myself to sell it when I don't really have to, like, you know, like that. Like, there's not like I purposely didn't pitch it to a publisher, I purposefully didn't want someone telling me, you need to sell this many books, and you need to go out on this book tour and like, do all these things like I wanted that, you know, that decision for myself of how much time I spent on it. But now I'm in this situation where I feel like I have to justify all the time I spent on it some spending all this time promoting it. SoColleen Schnettler  10:56  let's go back. So yeah, so my my business partners, you haven't even gotten through the whole list. But sure, yeah. Okay, so let's go back a little bit. So my business partner Sean has, in the past experienced incredible, massive burnout. And one of the things he said to you yesterday was, like, the number one symptom of burnout is thinking, you can't work less. Like, there's no way around it, I can't solve this problem, because I cannot work less. So I challenge that, first of all, okay, but I don't know if we're here to problem solve, or if we're just here to talk. SoMichele Hansen  11:32  we're kind of a mix of both. But I mean, so I think so here, let me get through the full list of things.Colleen Schnettler  11:36  Okay, keep going. So just to go do,Michele Hansen  11:38  there is what I term my extracurriculars, which is the book like this podcast being on other podcasts, like, you know, the fun business stuff. Um, and then there's also I'm in Danish class all day, Monday and Friday. Right. And then also, I have a family and, you know, another stressors on top of that is, you know, I'm in a foreign country, and, you know, again, talking to people founder Summit, you know, talking to other people who moved abroad, during the pandemic, there was a universal Zero out of 10, do not recommend on that. And then also, you know, we're in a pandemic, so like, there's all sorts of reasons to be burned out. But then the reason why I feel like I can't do less is because like, just I mean, quite frankly, like, for immigration reasons, like I have to be in Danish class, and I have to be working full time. And so I'm squeezing in basically, a full work week, you know, on the edges on Monday and Friday, and then working as much as I can, to say, Wednesday, Thursday, plus, you know, like, replying, the email, you know, when I wake up in the morning, and you know, at night, you know, normal entrepreneur, lack of boundaries with email stuff. And so like, that's why I feel like I can't work less because like, my life necessitate necessitates that I'm in language school twice a week, which feels like a part time job. And then, like, just for legal immigration reasons, like I have to be working full time at the same time. So I feel kind of backed into a corner almost. And then so then, like, the last thing to let go, because obviously, I can't drop family off of that. I guess one benefit of being somewhere where I don't really have a lot of friends in daily life is it like social is, you know, there's, there's zero there. So there's really nothing to drop. But I'm like this, doing this podcast and the book and everything. Like, that's the easiest stuff to fall back on. But that's the thing I like, really enjoying. And so I guess I could sensibly work less and not do this, but like, I quite enjoy this. And like, I enjoy talking to people on their podcasts. And I enjoy doing stuff about my book, and I enjoy talking to you and doing this podcast. And so like, so the only thing I'm left with is, you know, the taking away the thing I enjoy the most and I, you know, like, I wish I could only be in Danish class one hour a week, but that's just not an option. And I think that's the thing. That's the biggest drag on myself. But also there's just the general I mean, stress of the pandemic, right, like, you know, you've probably heard that Europe, several European countries are locking down again, like so it's like, are we facing another lockdown, where I have to balance between working and feeling like a bad parent, because I'm like, you know, balancing homeschooling and working and everything. And so that's like, even stressing me out even more because it's like, Oh, my God, I have to get even more out of each day when I already feel like I'm getting trying to get so much out of each day. And I think just all of that is just kind of making me feel just sort of stressed and exhausted. Just likeColleen Schnettler  14:57  that's a lot. I mean, especially the foreign country. To me, we move to California. And it's so annoying slash stressful. Find a new doctors and dentists. And we're in the same country, they still speak English,Michele Hansen  15:08  they tend you're in like constant sunlight. Oh, that makes aColleen Schnettler  15:12  huge difference. By the way, everyone should move to California, because I'm happy every day because the sun is shining every day. But no, that's a lot, Michelle. I mean, you end this has been so prolonged for you, right? Because it was the pandemic, and then you move to a foreign country. That was that was a lot to take on at once you left your friends you left, you know, the place where you were comfortable and you loved you left the language. You left the healthcare system, like everything that that was really American healthcare system youMichele Hansen  15:42  like it's, it's terrible, but at least at least they knew how it worked. Yeah, at least you know how to go to the doctor, I could go to the doctor and feel confident I could communicate with the brain. But I wasn't like going, like practicing, you know? How to say, you know, yes, sure. I floss my teeth. You know?Colleen Schnettler  16:03  The change over the past? Gosh, is it been two, three years now? How long has this pandemic been going on? The, the amount of stress you have taken on is tremendous. And I feel for you, because it's just it sounds really, really hard.Michele Hansen  16:29  And everybody who said they went through burnout, like they're like, the thing I did was, you know, I fired all my clients, and I didn't work for two months. Yeah, or I didn't work for a year, like I just lived on savings for a year. And I'm like, I don't feel I can do that. And like also, like people, like, you know, I traveled or whatever. And it's like, I have a family. So I can't just like do nothing all day. Like, even if I wanted to, like I have responsibilities like that, you know, do not change regardless of how I'm feeling. And then, like, legally, I have to be working. And so I feel I mean, I don't know,Colleen Schnettler  17:10  it sounds to me like you feel stuck, or trapped. Yeah. And the situation superMichele Hansen  17:14  stuck. And I don't know how to get unstuck.Colleen Schnettler  17:19  So it seems like the first step is decrease your stress level. Yes. I mean, here's the thing, you're in the middle of it. And so don't freak out. But let's just let's just think outside the box. Okay. So you're in the middle of this super, super high, intense, stressful situation. But I'm going to still say that a lot of it is of your own making. And yeah. And I understand that you don't want to give up the book promo, or you don't want to do our podcast less because these are things you really enjoy. But your health, you know, has to be your happiness. That should be number one.Michele Hansen  18:02  But like why do I take away the things that make me happy? Oh, IColleen Schnettler  18:06  didn't say take them away. You aren't ready for Collins great ideas. Oh, God, what is Collins great ideas. Okay, so I'm just gonna throw these things out there not to scare you. Just to and I don't want you to problem solve or tell me why you can't do them. Just to show you that. Like, there are options even if they seem absolutely crazy. Okay,Michele Hansen  18:28  are you ready? Okay, okay, I will I will play along. Okay, just play along with Romani. Okay,Colleen Schnettler  18:33  you could move back to the United States. Now listen, one, okay, could sell geocoder do and take two years off and you don't work at all. You could hire someone to be you. And I know the onboarding of that you had you don't want it. You've told me a million times. I know you don't want to hire someone. But if you could get a system in place where you only work, you don't have to work on geocode do you'd still be working full time in the eyes of the Danish government? But you yourself wouldn't have to be managing the contracts and putting in the hours. There's like they don't you know as long as you're they think you're working ish. The full I have toMichele Hansen  19:12  be working. Hello. Danish government people listening.Colleen Schnettler  19:17  I wait. I mean, I would be working because you would be managing okay, you would be working. Because you would be managing a person who was doing the things for you? What if you just stopped doing what would happen? If you did nothing for God? Oh, except like legally required things like, like, you What if you just on your website, you go to your website today? You say we are not taking any more customers for six months. Shut it down. I mean, don't shut it down. But like, what if you were just like, No, no one else gets to come on six months. I mean, there's options. I know these sound crazy to you. Okay, no idea. Okay. I'm just trying to I'm just like trying to help you see that, like, roll their eyes.Unknown Speaker  19:57  You're like, I see it. See?Colleen Schnettler  20:03  You and I know you love promote. And so then of course, then there's the smaller things, but I don't think not like depending on your, your rate of promoting the book. Yeah, you could just totally stop again, it's a book, it's not going to go anywhere, totally stop for six months. Right? All this stuff will be here, once you are recovered, but your health and your happiness that is your life, this is your life. And Michelle, you have made it. And you, you're so stressed. And that makes me sad.Michele Hansen  20:36  You know, I remember I always remember hearing, you know, money doesn't buy happiness when I was a kid. And, you know, he always interpreted that to mean Oh, yeah, you can't just you know, I don't know, go buy yourself something and then feel happy. And they don't tell you how bitter it is, when you're in a situation that can't be solved by money.Colleen Schnettler  21:02  Yeah, that's intense,Michele Hansen  21:05  even when you could have it and, you know, I mean, money by as, you know, therapy and coaches and, you know, help with cleaning the house and or, you know, employees for that matter. You know, whatever else, but you know, money truly doesn't buy happiness. And that is a bitter pill to swallow.Colleen Schnettler  21:25  Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of other small things you can do, which may help but they might just be bandaids. And so I really think you need to take a good look at like you, you're so happy in in what you have built with your husband, the work your work environment, and what you are building with the book like, but it doesn't seem right now. And it's been this way for a while, right? This hasn't been a month, this hasn't been two months, it's been this way for a while where it doesn't seem like it's bringing you overall happiness to the extent maybe you thought it would, and it might just be have too much going on. But like, I'm worried about you. That's there. I said it.Michele Hansen  22:09  I think the fact that I have so much going on right now is like bringing these other issues to the fore like we have talked in the past about how I really struggled with work life balance, and like, if like, like I really love working on giuoco do and both of us like we're not selling the business, we we both really enjoy working on it and working on it together. Like, but if I could work 12 hour days on do co do and book stuff like I would do that and be totally happy to do that. Yes, I could blame this on Okay, the extra stress of spending 10 hours a week in language school is like, really adding a lot of stress to this. But I don't think that gets to the bottom, like, like, I don't think I'm being honest with myself. If I say that, that is the problem like that is just like the straw that's breaking the camel's back here. That's, like I struggle with work boundaries. I struggle with, you know, prioritizing myself, like, and giving myself a break and feeling like I deserve a break. Like I think this is this conversation here is like, I don't feel like I can take a break. I don't feel like I deserve a break. I don't feel like it's something that's available to me. Um, I definitely consider myself a recovering workaholic and somebody who wrapped up way too much of their self worth and self identity in work. Which is not as bad as it used to be but like, like, I feel like those things are the real issues and like you know, we kind of talked about how doing that exercise at like well that exercise at founder summit, but also like when it comes to like business like I'm like super competent, and like confident and and like I just make decisions and I feel very self assured and I find it easy to move forward. You tend to like doubt yourself and do a lot of research and feel stuck and like really struggle with that but like when it comes to taking care of yourself and your work life balance and your social life and your your health and everything like you are like so decisive and confident and just make decisions and implement things and do things. And I'm like totally the opposite. Like we're completely opposite.Unknown Speaker  24:38  Yep. On these two things,Michele Hansen  24:40  and you're like, you have to have better work life balance and I'm like, like, how, how do like what's like, I don't know what that means. Like, I think I need to read a book on how to relax like, you know, like, Where where is this guide? Where is this schedule of like,Unknown Speaker  24:59  I can Please be the episode of this. I need to read a book about how to relax. Please title the episode like, that's amazing.Michele Hansen  25:07  Seriously, like, I feel like if you ever got to a point where like you were like I'm too stressed out, like you would immediately cut back on working and feel no guilt or shame or reservations and like just make it work.Colleen Schnettler  25:21  Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe my I mean, I think my experience is a lot different from yours being a military spouse with three kids. If I can't, I have to take care. I mean, they're older now. But like when they were little, like if I wasn't healthy, mentally, physically, whatever, I could not care for all these little people. And so I think part of it is I learned that years ago, like, if I don't have my shit in order, this whole thing falls apart. Because Nick was gone all the time. My husband, you know, he travels a lot for a long, long, long period of time. So I have learned over the years how important it is to prioritize myself really. And it's my life. Right? Let's get back to that. Like, this is your life. Like, how do you want to live it? I mean, right. Not the way you're living it right now. Not with this incredibly burdening like anvil of stress on your shoulders.Michele Hansen  26:19  Yeah, I mean, I feel I like something you said to me at founder Summit, one of our I don't know if this was our debrief knife, when we we ordered guacamole at midnight, I did some self pampering so good. That like you're like, you know, I met all these people who are super successful, and their businesses are where I want to be. And they're, like, I'm happier than them. Like, they're all miserable. Like,Unknown Speaker  26:47  I'm a little embarrassed that you shared that on the podcast, but I did. So we can love you all, thank you for chatting with me. Because not all of your character.Michele Hansen  26:59  Not all of them were miserable. But like they had a lot of, you know, business problems. And it created a lot of like, personal problems, and you didn't want to have those problems, like the stress of managing employees and just, you know, all this other stuff like, but like, you know, you're saying how like your work life balance is really good. Your family life is really good. Like, you've talked about how you're hesitant to work more because you don't want to disrupt how good your personal and then like family life is. And like Yeah, I like I just, I don't even I don't even know how to wrap my head around that. So that's it my family life is bad, or I don't like them. Like I do. Like it's just I don't know, like, it'sUnknown Speaker  27:48  a lot. You're like, well, I you know,Michele Hansen  27:51  what if there's nights when you know, Nick wanted to hang out, and then I'm working and I'm like, What is this world where like, the default is not like, one of your like, is that what you thought? Like I said, your laptop? Like what is that? Like, I was just like, that's like so normal for us that like, you know, one of us has some sort of work to do we have to do all the time. Like and we're better than we used to be but like Yeah, and like, I don't know, hanging out with your spouse. Like I just I don't I don't even know like I don't know. i Our marriage is so funny. Our marriage is very different. Um, I just really I don't know, I feel very stuck. And I feel like all these solutions everyone is giving me I'm still like, Well, that was work wouldn't work because this and this wouldn't work. Isn't that like, I'm still I don't know what yeah, that but I'm being very obstinate. I'm not being very, very compliance person to be helped.Colleen Schnettler  28:53  That's what I think that was Shawn's point about, like, when you say I cannot change anything, that's when you know, you need to change something.Michele Hansen  29:00  Yeah. Yeah.Colleen Schnettler  29:04  Yeah, yeah. And it's a whole mindset shift. So actually, I was talking to my other business parent, partner Aaron about this yesterday. And I said that same thing where I was like, I feel like I'm happier than most people. And he was like, Why do you think that is? And I had a couple I had many reasons, but like one of them to like, again, as, like we, as a military spouse, like our friends actually die. I mean, that's like, in real life, like people die. Close friends of ours have died. And I think, you know, when that happens, like my good friend down the street is a widow. She was widowed at 29 with two kids. That really gives you perspective. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, I think that really, really helps. I think I'm really good at keeping perspective because I live in this world that is so much more dangerous than everyone else's world. It's like what is really important. You get one life, you don't know how long it's going to be. How do you want to spend it?Michele Hansen  29:57  It sounds like you take that perspective. Not as you know that your problems don't matter because you're not dead, or that your spouse isn't dead, it's more, which I think is often how that comes across. But it's more so that being surrounded by death, or having it, surrounded by it, but yeah, that was a little. Having it, having it be this kind of looming part of the community kind of like having having it be a presence in the community in a way that it's really not in mind. Like, it forces you to reevaluate those things, and to not take your time for granted. Which, you know, I mean, like, I mean, and, and I don't know, and he's also sort of an ADHD person thing, where, like, we struggle with the concept of time, and like, there's these great talks about how like, ADHD is this disorder of how you perceive time, and like, Hmm, you know, we let things expand to the amount of time allotted, and then some and so we need, like, deadlines for this stuff, like, and so if I feel like there's no deadline on me feeling better, or prioritizing myself, or whatever it is, like I just, I will just fill that time with other things because, and it has been externally set deadline to like, if I make up my own deadline, like, I will blow through it, like, it just, it's like, it doesn't exist, because I know it's made up, like I like outsmart the deadline, like, to my own detriment. Um, you know, but that doesn't, that time doesn't last forever. And it sounds like you get reminders that, you know, none of us are guaranteed any amount of time.Colleen Schnettler  31:38  So, and to be fair, like, on the other side of that coin, I sometimes I'm not, I want to say convinced, but I am sometimes concerned that like all of my businesses will not be successful, because I'm not willing to sacrifice everything else in my life. And, you know, so there's two sides to that, right? Like, I might always have a SAS that makes $1,000 a month and just hang out here, because I'm not willing to work 8090 100 hours a week to make it happen. So you know, trade offs, butMichele Hansen  32:10  I also I don't feel like I'm sacrificing everything because I still do have like, like, family life is also something I'm not going to sacrifice because I think it's something that I did in the past. And now I don't you know, I mean, like today's like, kind of a totally packed day for me, schedule wise. And I was like, you know, tonight, I'm just gonna, like, put our daughter to bed and probably, like, fall asleep with her. Like, but you know, we hadColleen Schnettler  32:41  her, but it is 530 Your time right now already. So, you know, I have something after that. Right. And you're going to do another podcast as soon as we get off this podcast. So and I know a lot of that is timezone stuff. ButMichele Hansen  32:53  which suck. I hate them. Yeah. Like not being able to do anything with customers until like 8am at the earliest, or at sorry, like 2pm if they're an early riser, usually 3pm Six, if it's California, like, yeah, that isColleen Schnettler  33:11  rough. Okay, so let's go back. Let's circle back circle back to you. Because we got a little distracted. And how we get the circle back. I know we're running out of time to solve all your problems. So in 30 minutes,Unknown Speaker  33:30  I think we have five minutes left till your next podcast.Colleen Schnettler  33:35  But seriously, like, what what is your? I'm so happy. Okay, so when you brought this up yesterday with our group, I was so happy to see that, because it showed me that you were fine. You were finally seeing it. And so what is your plan?Michele Hansen  33:52  Dude, I don't have one. I we I'm stuck in the middle of this like,Colleen Schnettler  33:56  so you don't know. You're still young? No idea, I think. Yeah.Michele Hansen  34:00  I mean, I was like, trying this week. I was like, maybe I can like, you know, dude, you could do stuff like Tuesday, Wednesday, and then do extracurricular stuff Thursday, but then it kind of ended up meshing together. And I'm like, actually, I really need to, like, sequester myself and like, get several focused hours of work done on like, Monday afternoons, like, I don't know, that just sounds like more like planning and scheduling. And when it does sound like that sounds like you know, sort of optimizing within the current bounds rather than like actually stepping back and taking time to like, reflect and focus on myself, which is just I think that's the bigger thing is I don't know how to do that. Like, well, and I was like, should I hire a coach, but then I was like, I feel like I don't have time for more meetings. Like, you know, it's just like a coach. IColleen Schnettler  34:51  hire a relaxing coach. How do I relax, coach? Yeah, I think you're right, like trying to over optimize your schedule is not the solution. You have to fundamentally changed the box, right? And I knowMichele Hansen  35:02  the paradigm is wrong. And I'm just working within the current paradigm because I don't know anything else. I just got it. It's not working.Colleen Schnettler  35:11  Right? Like, I know those ideas I threw out, I know you're not going to sell the company or hire someone or move to the United States. But my point is like, you could I mean, there are other options that are available to me. So try to think outside the box because you have to change the box because the box is not working for you. Yeah.Michele Hansen  35:31  Yeah. Well, that's a lot for me to,Unknown Speaker  35:37  you're gonna think about it. You promise?Michele Hansen  35:39  I'm gonna think about it. I'm gonna buy some books about stuff. I don't know. I don't know.Unknown Speaker  35:52  Okay, I was giving myselfMichele Hansen  35:53  homework not the solution, either.Unknown Speaker  35:55  That's not not the solution is read a book about how to relax, read a book about how to stop writingMichele Hansen  36:02  about relaxing, right? Like, it's not like, relaxing without meditating. Like,Colleen Schnettler  36:06  it's not the right word. You know,Michele Hansen  36:08  I already meditate anyway. Like, it's not like it's, yeah, it's I don't know, I don't know what it like, I don't know anybody listening. You've gone through burnout. You have some the, I feel like at this point, I less need like solutions from people. And I more need, like, hope thinking about it, if that makes sense. Like framing a problem. Right? Yeah. So anyway, if anyone's gone through this, like, let me know, and you want to, you know, DM with me or something about it, and, or you have a book that like really helped you when you went through it. I feel like burnout is I've gathered that's very different for everyone. And the solutions are very different from everyone. So think I'm intentionally not asking for solutions, because that needs to be something that I figure out, right? Otherwise, because I'm just gonna sit here. Yeah, no, it's gonna work. That's gonna work and then I'm not gonna do what the problem, right? I need to I don't know. I need to think different think outside the box. You did new box.Colleen Schnettler  37:13  You need a new box. Okay, well, I wish you luck. Keep me posted on how it goes. And I think with that, we will wrap up this week's episode of the software Show podcast. Please reach out to Michelle on Twitter. If you have any advice or you yourself have gone through burnout. I think those would be welcome conversations. And let us know what you thought of the show. We're at software slash pod till next week.Michele Hansen  37:40  This episode was also brought to you by tele tele is a browser based screen recorder. For videos that showcase your work and share your knowledge. You can capture your screen, camera and present slides. You can also customize your videos with backgrounds layouts and other video clips. Tella makes it easy to record updates for your teammates, launch videos for your followers and demos for your customers. Record your next product demo with tele visit tele.tv/software Social to get 30% off tele proMichele HansenThis episode was also brought to you by Tella.Tella is a browser-based screen recorder for videos that showcase your work and share your knowledge.You can capture your screen, camera, and present slides. You can also customise your videos with backgrounds, layouts, and other video clips.Tella makes it easy to record updates for your team mates, launch videos for your followers, and demos for your customers.Record your next product demo with Tella.Visit tella.tv/softwaresocial to get 30% off Tella Pro

Follow the speakers we mentioned!David Sherry: https://twitter.com/_brandswellItamar Marani: https://twitter.com/itamarmaraniColleen Schnettler  0:00  Every doctor is concerned about your vital signs, but a good doctor cares about your overall health. Your website deserves the same care, and Hey Check It is here to help- Hey Check It is a website performance monitoring and optimization tool- Goes beyond just core web vitals to give you a full picture on how to optimize your website to give your users an optimal, happy experience- Includes AI-generated SEO data, accessibility scanning and site speed checks with suggestions on how to optimize, spelling and grammar checking, custom sitemaps, and a number of various tools to help youStart a free trial today at heycheckit.comAUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT Michele Hansen  0:35  Hey, Colleen.Colleen Schnettler  0:37  Good morning, Michelle.Michele Hansen  0:39  It's so nice to see your face again, after seeing it in person. Last off at founder Summit.Colleen Schnettler  0:45  I know that was such a wonderful trip. And just amazing that we got to spend that time together.Michele Hansen  0:51  I keep thinking about how awesome it was like, I feel like they've set the bar really, really high for conferences in general as but especially post COVID.Colleen Schnettler  1:04  Yeah, I also think I will be impressed if they can replicate that experience next year, because everyone I know now wants to go. And I think part of what made that conference so special was that there were it was capped at 150 people. And I'm sure they're gonna get a flood of applicants to go next year. So I don't know what they're going to do how they're going to handle that.Michele Hansen  1:28  Yeah, actually, so Tyler tweet that he was like, oh, like, what if we did this in other cities? Oh, like to a year? Yeah. And I was like, Oh, that would be really cool. Yeah, good. Maybe we should talk about like, what made it so awesome. And like, kind of what are like, what are takeaways from it?Colleen Schnettler  1:44  Oh, yeah, girl, I have so many takeaways, all the takeaways. Okay. What were what? What would you lead with? What made it so special for you? Besides me? Of course. It's too easy.Michele Hansen  2:01  You know, so I mean, yeah, this is really hard thing to like, summarize. So I think it was, I mean, it was just so nice being in the same place with other people who are doing the same thing. You know, I think we've talked about how, you know, we initially connected one of the reasons was like, You're the only person I knew in my regular everyday life, who also did this, like weird internet business thing. And there's just like, aren't that many people in this world doing that. So it's just like, so nice to be around other people who are doing this. And you're not only not only do you feel normal, but like, it's such a good environment for like, throwing around ideas. And like, there was at one point when we were talking about, like, multiples for SaaS companies like making a couple $1,000 a month at one point, like on a on the bus to do the hot air balloon ride over to t Wuhan like, and I hope I'm pronouncing that right. I'm practicing so much. And we're like, you know what, we should just like, ask the bus, like this bus full of people would know the answer to this question and have a perspective on this. And like, and so that was really, really awesome. And I feel like there's so many people who introduce themselves. And then and then we like, you know, I'm so and so Oh, and I'm so and so on Twitter, and I'm like, oh my god, like, I've been tweeting with you for the past, you know, like, couple of years, and I finally meeting you in person. And. And so that was really awesome. And I mean, just getting so many ideas going about things. And also, you know, we had talked on our meta episode about how I want to talk more about negotiation, because that's something I do a lot of, and sales, but don't really talk about. And then a speaker was sick on the second day, and Tyler was like, Hey, can anybody give a talk this afternoon? And like, fill the spot and I was like, Yep, alright, I can do negotiation, talk and workshop. And, and, you know, just kind of kind of jumped at it. And it was, it was super fun. And I think I think the big thing I'm really thinking about that, you know, that activity did was like the, the, the, like the wheel where you had to, like rate different areas over your life from like, one to 10 like how they're going. So there was I think it was like occupational fulfillments like one to 10 which is work, right work. Yep. spiritual, emotional, environmental. Physical. Did I already say social? I don't think so. Social. Yeah, there was like five or six different things. Yeah, that'sColleen Schnettler  4:49  six. Um,Michele Hansen  4:52  and I think we both had really interesting results from that. Like they're very different like ours were like, Oh, yes, opposite one. And yeah, and really thinking about how like, you know, I like I gave like physical health like a one on that, right. And the goal of this activity was, you know, you give each area a score of one to 10. And then you set a goal of getting up to spots in the next 90 days. So not going from one to 10, which is often how I two things, just like totally like, balls to the wall focusing on something. But going, you know, from like, one to three, and so it's like, how can you have a plan to go from one to three or three to five? Or, or what have you in the next 90 days. And I remember you saying, when I was writing the book, you were like, Dude, you're like, moving so fast, like you're gonna run headfirst into a wall. And I did, and I haven't talked about that too much, but kind of like privately, I've talked to some people who definitely had this had a similar feeling after launching things. Yeah. Um, and yeah, just really, really thinking. I mean, like, literally even like today, like I got hiccups. 30 seconds before we got on recording, and I was doing literally everything I could to get them to go away, rather than being like, hey, maybe let's record another day instead, right? Like I make work happen no matter what. Even if it's at the the sacrifice of my physical health. And so I think that's something you know, I really need to focus on and I think, something Natalie from wild bit said on stage was like, you know, if the founder isn't happy, if the founder isn't healthy, then the company can't flourish. And so I think that's, that's, I mean, that's something I really, really need to work on. And it's like, kind of like work related, but it's like, it's not, but it also like it is in every sense of the word. So I think that's kind of been a thing I'm thinking about, but I don't I still don't really know exactly where I go with that.Colleen Schnettler  7:07  Like actionable steps. That's what you're still trying to figure out. Because if you want a warning, pretty bad, soMichele Hansen  7:12  yeah, it is. Yeah. I mean, I did order atomic habits, which is like one of those books that like I've never read before, never read a tie. No, it's like one of those books. I feel like that. And like Ray Dalio, his book, or like, books that everybody around me read and like, told me about, and I read about, so I felt like I read them. But I didn't, you know, like, I just didn't feel like I needed to, because it just everybody read it. And I'm like, No, I should probably like, sit down and think about like, not doing a whole scale turnaround, which is like, normally how I approach anything, and it's like, just just just way over the top. Yeah, um, but how, you know, how can I make small changes so that I don't get exhausted and like, move on to something else? And then then, which then exhaust me and then move on to something else? Like, it's, I see a pattern here. So, um, yeah, and I think I also thought, you know, a lot of people, even if they were in different groups really struggling with the idea of like, work life balance, and how do you, you know, how do you make it so that work doesn't become too much of your identity? And how, when when you really love what you do, like, it's really hard to pull yourself away from it, too,Colleen Schnettler  8:28  right? Yeah.Michele Hansen  8:32  I don't know. So I don't really have like, I'm just kind of all that's just still really marinating in my head. But it really, really got me going. And I think I really, really needed that push to like, um, I don't know, like, I guess like, prioritize my myself a bit.Colleen Schnettler  8:52  Sounds great. I mean, it sounds like that. It's funny sometimes to how you you've probably heard that from me or your spouse or your other friends. But there was something about the environment where everyone was sharing and being open and vulnerable in that big group that I felt really helped some of those points hit home because you saw so many people in the same situation you were in.Michele Hansen  9:13  Mm hm. And I mean, you're so like, you were totally opposite because oh, I have like a 10 for occupational like I feel like you know, for me, like this is exactly where I want to be like, last week I spoken in Mexico City twice. This week I spoke in Copenhagen I'm you know, like, like, this is just sort of in like the business is good. Like everything is really good there. But like you for occupational like I think you had like a 10 or a nine for physical health. But then you are much lower on occupational and that was the group that you were in.Colleen Schnettler  9:49  Absolutely. Yep. I think something you mentioned to me, which I think is true and was kind of cemented meeting so many founders is like I'm pretty good at taking care of myself socially. mentally, physically, I prioritize that. And so yeah, all that stuff was good for me. But yeah, my occupational score was lower. So my goal is to get that score, what do you say to two or three in the next 90 days?Michele Hansen  10:17  I'm just curious, what did you give yourself for occupational,Colleen Schnettler  10:20  I honestly don't remember probably like a seven. I love what I do. So I don't think I mean, I think if I was still working a full time job that I didn't enjoy, it would have been much lower. I love what I do with occupational in terms of like my job. So it was still a high score. But I think I what I really took away from the conferences is I was challenged in a way I haven't been challenged in a long time. And by that, I have a lot going on as to you as everyone. And I'm doing really, really well one of the executive coaches there who I was talking with, she described it as an avalanche of abundance, which is like a great problem to have, right? Like, I'm not gonna complain about it. It's an amazing problem to have. And I have all the things and I'm very happy. But I think I haven't really pushed it all on the business stuff. I've just kind of been resting, but I'm not tired. I'm ready to push. Does that make any sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is, I could be trying a lot harder. That's it. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I think so I think that I'm not really trying. And I'm telling myself, I'm trying, but I'm not. So I'm going to start trying.Michele Hansen  11:40  So what is trying look like to you. There's a couple of really specific things. IColleen Schnettler  11:45  think there's a lot of personal stuff wrapped up in here too. Like something I took away was like identity. For example, I have this, this interesting. You and Rosie talked about identity on the podcast. Mine's a little different in that my children get out of school 230 In the afternoon, I thought I was going to try you know, I'll pick them up at 230 will come home and they'll do their homework. And I'll continue to work. And that that set up like from a very practical perspective, like what can I practically do in the next 90 days, that setup is not working because I hate stopping work at 2pm in the afternoon. Like that's just, you know, you're in the middle of something, I pick them up, and they need to be supervised, like they can't just be free. We don't have a backyard here. So they need to be supervised wherever they are. We live in California, so I want them to be outside. So it wasn't that I was picking them up and having super quality time with them. It was I was picking them up. We were going to the playground and I was just hanging out of the playground. Mm hmm. Like, very practically speaking. So practically speaking, that doesn't have to be me, that can be another person doing that. And so I can get more of a deep work in my work day. And so I hired after school childcare, I found a nanny. She's lovely. She's already started on Monday, and this week has been really great.Michele Hansen  13:04  Oh my god. Amazing. Yeah,Colleen Schnettler  13:06  it's like, it's amazing. And the thing is, I you know, I was really worried about upsetting the balance of my happy family life, children marriage with working more. But that's a fake fear. Because, first of all, if if something starts to get gnarly, and I start to upset the balance, I can always change what I'm doing. And second of all, the kids are at the age, as I said, where they just want to play in the playground. They're not we're not like having some amazing bonding experience after school, or give them a snack, we go to the playground.Michele Hansen  13:38  Does anyone have amazing bonding experiences after school? Like our like, our daughter gets home and she's just so tired. Like that, even like playing a board game is like, Yeah, butColleen Schnettler  13:49  just want to do they? I mean, my kids just want to play with their friends, right? Yeah, I want to do their thing. So. So the two very actionable things, I feel like I'm ready to push again, I think when I was learning to code, building up my kind of reputation as a Rails developer, you and I talked a little bit about this offline. Like, I worked all the time, and it was hard. And then I rested for like four years, like I just it was it was worth it that year to however it was probably two years of like, really intense work was worth it to have the four or five years of just getting paid a lot of money and doing good work, but like mostly being chill. And I feel like I'm ready to push again, is what I'm trying to say with all these words. And to do that, I see that as working. You know, I'm at my desk seven early, like I get here early. So working a long day, and then I'm picking two nights a week to work and I'm going to set those up with my spouse beforehand. So there's no there's no bitterness, or upsetness. Or I'm like, Oh, I got to work tonight. Oh, I got to work tonight. And he wants to hang out. So we've set aside two nights a week I'm going to work and we're going to do this for a month or two and see, see if I can move the needle on things. Just kind of like test it out. Yeah, right. Right. I mean, it's my life. I can Do whatever I want. So I'm going to try it out. I'm going to try I think I've been scared to try. That's the truth. I've been scared to try. Why have I been scared to try? I'm not quite sure. But it doesn't matter. That's what I've, so I'm going to change that up. And commit to working more. That's my goal.Michele Hansen  15:19  Feel like one of the talks that you I think you may be said was the best one that I actually missed? was one on fear.Colleen Schnettler  15:29  Right? Love this one. Do that a little bit? Yes, I'd love to. Okay, so this is a tomorrow's talk. Yeah, he is an executive coach. And he talked about so and I don't like personal development, like, I don't read self help books. Like I kind of roll my eyes at that whole area of study. So I just we'reMichele Hansen  15:53  so opposite. Like, I have like piles of like, books on on your, you're talking to the person with piles of books on like, empathy and boundaries. And like, all these kinds ofColleen Schnettler  16:08  read that I read your book, because I love you. But generally speaking, that's not my jam. So, so I went into this talk with low expectations, not that I thought he would be, you know, not a good speaker, but just like, Okay, I'm not gonna get anything out of this. And, you know, he talked about fear, which everyone talks about, but I thought he was gonna get up there and say, Oh, you have a fear of failure. Yeah, everyone has a fear of failure. We get it. That is not what he said. He got up there. And he talked about three fears. The first core fear being uncertainty. And as founders that's applicable to us, because we become control freaks. And we won't hire. Oh, I'm giving you eyeballs.Michele Hansen  16:49  I see. I see those eyeballs. I, I, hey, you know, whatever. What are the breakthroughs I had, I'm just just saying this in David's workshop on we should really use people's last names because they're so good. Yes. Um, but now if you like, you know, us know them. So anyway, so, um, David's workshop on, like, personal mission statements, but you also don't believe. And I was like, I've had a personal mission statement for 15 years, but also apparently never told anyone. But like doing that exercise with him, where I crystallize the thought that I am building a business, not an organization. And at this point in my life, I don't have the mental energy to run an organization. I love running a business, but dealing with like, people, politics and all that, like I mean, a lot of the stuff that like Rosie talked about, about hiring and people management, like I just I mean, with just managing, like the people in my own house is kind of the level of management that I'm like capable of. Anyway, yes. Not hiring. So that was the fear of uncertainty.Colleen Schnettler  18:03  Well, I mean, there were other things in that, but just generally, with what we do. There's so much uncertainty, and that is also a core fear. So that's something you really have to learn to manage. And I think what you just said about David, David, David's workshop is really good. Because you, you realize that for yourself. And you've kind of always known that, but I don't know if you verbalized it or crystallize it before, in that knowingMichele Hansen  18:26  that way. That workshop was awesome. Like, yeah,Colleen Schnettler  18:29  I loved David's to David sherry. Yeah, everyone. Yes. I love Dave. Oh,Michele Hansen  18:34  good. Yeah, it was basically like, people who are familiar with jobs to be done or who Google things about jobs to be done. The there's like the forces diagram working through the different like, pushes and pulls and anxieties and fears that someone has that keeps them in, in a situation from switching products. We basically applied that to like, our professional lives. And our companies. And it was yeah,Colleen Schnettler  19:01  it was it was really good. Like I was also Pooh poohing the mission statement thing, but it was,Michele Hansen  19:06  it was really, it totally called you out. In frontColleen Schnettler  19:10  of everyone. Thanks. It's fine. We were like a group of friends. By that point. It didn't feel awkward. It was yeah, it was so intimate. Okay, it was so intimate. Yeah. Okay, so the second fear. So this is Itamar. His second fear was worthlessness, which is a second core fear which I think we can all kind of imposter syndrome. And I'm not good enough. And I think we can all identify with that on some level. And the third core fear was abandonment, which is what will people think if I fail, and then he talked a little bit about the ways that we we try to deal with these fears without actually dealing with them, which is obviously a big one is numbing agents and vices, whether that's Twitter or buying things or alcohol or whatever, procrastination And he also talked about the motivation fallacy where if you don't actually handle these fears, you'll like so many of us have gotten in this spurt will actually basically just describe this, but it's like, I'm gonna get it before I am every day. And that's cyclical, like you can't do that forever. So you can do pushes, but eventually that motivation is going to wane. Unless you handle, you know, the, the root of some of these fears. So the solution of this is to minimize your fear and internal resistance. And a lot of people don't do this, because they're unaware that they even have those fears. And that's kind of where I was coming from. Like, he said, these things. I was like, oh, yeah, that that all makes total sense. But I was kind of unaware that those were going on subconsciously.Michele Hansen  20:42  Are there any of those fears that you feel like you really identify with as it relates to this whole?Colleen Schnettler  20:50  I think I mean, I think for me, part of the reason I haven't really wanted to push is like I said, like, I'm very blessed in my, my life is really good right now. So I don't want to do anything that upsets the balance of the happiness that I feel right now. But I think a lot of that too, might be abandonment, and it's not abandonment in this great big, like, I don't care what the internet people think of me. But you know, of my family. Like if I'm going to work more, how is that? What, what are what's going to happen with my relationship with my husband and my children? And those are the most important things. So I think that might have been a core fear for me. Yeah. Oh, man, all of them. Michelle, like and I don't even think I would have been like, I don't have any fears. I'm fine. Before this talk. Uncertainty. That's a big one, too. Because, as you know, as independent as entrepreneurs, we are constantly uncertainty. I mean, it's constant uncertainty, right? Every day, like, what should I do? I don't know what to do. Is this gonna work? Is this gonna work? I have no idea. I have no one to ask. So that's a stressful thing. Like it's not a bad thing. But it is. It's kind of a constant stress. Like, I don't know if this is gonna work. Yeah. So yeah, I took away from it. And I was I was feeling it. I was digging it. It soundsMichele Hansen  22:03  like it was an awesome talk. And I feel like I joined everyone else who wished that they had been at founder summit and having a little bit of FOMO, about missing that. But at the same time, it was like right after my, basically spur of the moment negotiations workshop that I had, like, maybe 20 minutes to plan out in my head during lunch. And I had so much adrenaline after that, that I got through the next talk, which was a great panel on sales for founders. But I like I had so much adrenaline I couldn't sit still. And I was like, I just like I have I have to go like walk like I need to like walk back to the hotel. And I ended up like walking back with some other some other people. And it was like a half hour walk. And I just like really needed that because I was like, jumping out of my skin with energy.Colleen Schnettler  22:57  Yeah, well, you did a great job. I loved your negotiation talk. I learned a lot out of that, too. I don't know if I told you that. Oh, yeah. So it was interesting, because you set us up to do the sample negotiation. It's one thing to talk about negotiation, I think it's another thing to do it. So what's give a quick read, I'll give a quick recap, you basically set us up where we were the person who lived under the person who was a piano player, and the piano player wanted to play his piano every night at 10pm. And we had little children, and we wanted him not to play his piano every night at 10pm. And so I'm talking to the person I'm paired up with. And he's talking about playing his piano. And I immediately just got so angry, and like, I'm not really an angry person. And I like in my head, like, I can see I can see my my mental energy, like rolling my eyes, like, oh my god, he was pretending to be like, 20 right? He was not actually 20 But um, you know, just mentally rolling my eyes like, oh my god, millennials. Give me a break. Stop playing your piano. You're such a anyway. Yeah. So that was really enlightening for me. Because I think I pride myself on like, being very good at having self awareness about my emotions and controlling my emotions. And like, I could not I almost rolled my eyes at him. SoMichele Hansen  24:15  yeah, the the, the sort of setup was it was actually that that activity, we did it in my Danish class. And I was like, this is a great negotiation. Like, it wasn't the purpose of it. But it was, you know, you have one person who's a music student who can, because of their schedule, they can only practice at 10 o'clock at night. But per the apartment building rules, they don't have to be quiet until 11. And then you were the parent whose children are getting woken up. And then you you all had to like talk through it. It was it was really fun. And I think after that I had a couple people be like, oh, like, is this your next book? And like, I'mColleen Schnettler  24:53  like, no, because I'm taking care of my personal health. Not ready to write another book, but okay, that was notMichele Hansen  24:59  the end. answer I gave you like, maybe should have been, why not? No. I mean, like, I started working with teaching people about customer interviews and customer research, like, four years ago, like, because like my friends and I ran a job speed on meetup in DC. And I started talking to other founders about it and stuff like that. So I like before I ever sat down to write, I not only had, you know, years of like, personal experience with it, and personal learning and learning from other people and whatnot, but also years of, of, of learning how to teach other people about it, and what are the common hiccups with it? hiccups? And you know, what, like, like, what resonates with people like all that kind of stuff? Well, before I ever sat down to write, versus like, I don't think I'm nearly the same level of, of expertise in negotiating. Like, I have a lot of practice in it. I've taken classes on it. Like, I guess that was, I don't know, I guess, like 334 years ago now. But like, that was the first time I have ever attempted to teach anyone else about negotiating.Colleen Schnettler  26:19  And what great, did a great job,Michele Hansen  26:21  thank you. Um, but I think I think I need to like a lot, a lot more time before I even get the point of of like thinking about whether that's a book or whatnot, though I am like, I did talk to other people there, who are also interested in like enterprise sales and negotiating and stuff like that. And so we actually will have some people on in the coming months, who will, we'll kind of like, talk more about that stuff. Because I think that's a big part of kind of going from, you know, the sort of stage you're in which I feel like is sort of like the under 10k a month, Mr. Phase, going 10 to 20 is really like for me, it was a lot about learning how to do sales, and definitely going from like, 20 to 50. Like you. I don't think I would have gotten to that point. Had I not had a better understanding of sales and negotiating. Yeah. So, so, yeah, I'm gonna I'm going to talk more about that. But But no, like, no book yet. I still haven't even hit your like, 20 podcast goal for promoting deploy empathy, like you're doing? Well,Colleen Schnettler  27:35  I think you have been on quite a lot. 10 or so. Okay. 12 IMichele Hansen  27:40  think I just recorded another one. The other day, I think, yeah, I just did one yesterday. And then I have two scheduled. Nice, I need to like have a spreadsheet and keep track.Colleen Schnettler  27:57  Yeah,Michele Hansen  27:59  um, you could do that. I could. Yeah. That would make sense. It's getting weirdly hard to track how many books I've sold, because like amazon online will only show me 90 days at a time. So I can't just go and like see all that's weird sold. Like I maybe again, if somebody like knows about this, like, let me know. But I'm in like the KDP reports dashboard. And then the reports beta and like, I sneak looks like I might need to like do it manually? Or at least like by month. And then. Yeah, so I don't I don't know. I'm also starting to give some more like, like, sort of private workshops with the book, like, I'm going to be speaking to an MBA class tomorrow online. And a friend asked me if like, I would speak to their marketing team, like do like a workshop. So we'll kind of see how that goes. I don't think I want to go too much in that direction. Like I don't want to be like, you know, selling like a day long workshop thing. Like we've talked about how I really don't want to do consulting,Colleen Schnettler  29:05  right? You have mentioned that a few times.Michele Hansen  29:10  But like maybe doing a workshop and you know, then they buy like 50 copies of the book. You know, I guess I'm cool with that.Colleen Schnettler  29:15  Yeah, seems like a good use of your time. If you enjoy it.Michele Hansen  29:19  Yeah, but I think I you know, I think for me, the big thing is like what does balance even mean? I mean, I I don't know.Colleen Schnettler  29:29  Yeah, I understand the question. But I think it's James clear has this really interesting thing about the how balance isn't a real before burners theory, the downside of work life balance. Have you seen this?Michele Hansen  29:44  Oh, that sounds familiar that like you have one burner going and then you can't have Okay,Colleen Schnettler  29:49  ready? Here it goes. four burners like your stove. The first burner represents your family, the second burners, your friends, the third burners, your health, and the fourth burner is your work. The four burners theory says that in order to be successful, you have to cut off one of your burners. And in order to be really successful, you have to cut off to anyway, here's a whole article about it. It's an interesting, interesting idea. But the idea is there isn't a real thing such as balance, there are times where you shift your focus. Like, for example, you this would be a good time for you to shift your focus from work, because you've been working so much for 610 years, to maybe health or whatever it would be right. And maybe it's time for me to shift my focus back to work. But the idea is, it's like, you really can't have balance. It's a lie. You can just have, you know, areas that are shifting and priorities. I can't have everything on five. Right, right, exactly. You can't have everything on five. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. And it kind of makes us all of us who are so hard trying to find balance a little bit better, because you're like, oh, okay, this sounds about right. This seems reasonable.Michele Hansen  30:56  Yeah, I guess. I mean, he's the habits guy, right. Like he's the habits guy. Yeah. So I guess I need to finally read that book. So yeah, so So that's our 90 day plan. Right? So you're gonna Yeah, you've got my herd nanny now. I mean, always, you've got your plan in action.Colleen Schnettler  31:17  I'm an act and I'm gonnaMichele Hansen  31:19  continue marinating. Oh, my God, it sounds like you. You were like, I'm gonna read more about this and think more. Like, I was like, I'm gonna do this now. Already done. I did it before I talked to you. Yeah, happening?Colleen Schnettler  31:38  I know, right? It's good, though, right? Because we both have, it's good, I guess. Yeah, I'm already in action. I've already posted more content. And I am making a video tutorial page. And I'm doing all kinds of things. And oh, the only thing I really got out of it, Michelle was a real focus, thinking more long term. So I think one of the things is we met a lot of people who have been running their businesses. I mean, I know you're kind of in this group. But I've been running their businesses for many, many years. And there were many people I met who aren't really trying to have some big exit, like they want to build a sustainable business that they can work on for as long as they want. And so that really helped me focus in terms of like thinking about where I want to spend my time and my energy and what I want my long term outlook from, like, for my career to look like? So I found that to be really beneficial.Michele Hansen  32:33  Was there any, like insights that you feel like are? Yeah, I think his point,Colleen Schnettler  32:39  what I found is, so I told you, I'm going to I'm really gonna push on simple file upvote, simple file upload for the next three months, simple file up vote, that sounds interesting. For the next couple months to kind of see what I can do with that if I really work at it. But I think long term, I am more interested in pursuing the opportunity, like really leaning into what to the Hammerstone team. Because when I think of the long term business I want to build, I can't think of anything better than doing really technically challenging work with my friends. Like I love as we've talked about when I joined Hammerstone, like I love having co workers or co founders. And that's really where I want to go. Right now I'm doing okay, splitting my time. But that's not sustainable in the long term. So I'm not sure what that looks like in a year. But it looks like my focus being more on Hammerstone. I thinkMichele Hansen  33:29  something else we talked about was, you know, the fact that you like you guys are funded for a year. And like the fact that you are funded for a year made you feel like you can take a year to get some stuff done, and how you can get more than that done in a year, too.Colleen Schnettler  33:51  So Jimmy from banal got up there talking about this was a founder summit about how to sell something that doesn't exist. Now his product is very specific, and it was very targeted was, you know, targeted to a very specific group of people. But I am not doing so I don't have the rails component for this query builder that I'm building with Hammerstone. But I also haven't really been doing anything to get the word out about it. And so yeah, we're funded for a year and I feel like the work is filling the time allotted. And the work doesn't necessarily need to fill the time allotted. I think I could be a little more efficient and a little more focused. Not that I'm not focused just there's more I could be doing on the Hammerstone side that I'm not and so it really kind of opened my eyes to like there's a lot of other opportunities here. You could get a content machine going now even if you can't sell it for six months, I could be writing articles about all this really interesting sequel stuff I'm doing whatever it may be point being like there's there's things I can put in place earlier. You know, as as I build this component,Michele Hansen  34:52  you know, hearing you talk about like it being time to push it almost. I feel like you're conceptualizing it as like this, like, switch, you can flick, like that, like, Okay, now like now you're gonna push like, do you feel like that is? How it's gonna work? So IColleen Schnettler  35:15  don't know, but a little bit like, let's go back to simple file. I've been a little bit mopey about it, what should I do? What should I do on Monday? Like, I know exactly what to do, right? It's like, I haven't been really trusting my own intuition here. I've been asking for permission or advice. And these are all good things. Advice is good. But why am I asking people for? Like, I want someone to say that's a good idea. Colleen, you should do that. No, I don't need it. It's my business. I get to do whatever the hell I want with it. So, you know, people like you shouldn't do this. You shouldn't. Um, I Okay. I appreciate everyone's advice, and I solicit it. But also, I think I you know, I just really, it's a very small product still, like, I'm just going to go with my gut. And I'm just going to do what I think is best. And I haven't really been doing that, because I have been so careful about overworking myself, I guess.Michele Hansen  36:06  And so I feel like that that I mean, that comes back to that like fear that we talked about, like waiting for somebody else. To say that your plan of action. Your idea is your decision. Good was a good one. Yes. subjective opinion, to massage your fear. That yes, it was totally and is that like, you know, uncertainty about the about the decision or all these other things? I don't know.Colleen Schnettler  36:36  Yeah, no, totally. I think for me, I'm really worried about making a decision that is going to be a waste of time. That's what it's about. Because my time feels so So, so limited. So I'm like, should I write this article? Is this article worth writing? Like, if it's gonna take me three hours to write it? Is that going to be worth it? Right, I just wrote the freakin article on the airplane home for Mexico. Oh, while I was stuck in DFW for 12 hours and then and then flew to a different city and then bus to my city that I actually live in the graveyard.Michele Hansen  37:03  Both took both of us 14 hours to get home yet I went across like, two continents. Oh my goodness. But also it was a bazillion times worth it to travel 14 hours to and from to be there.Colleen Schnettler  37:18  And I think something else. Speaking of founders comp, being amazing. The quality of everything was just so much better than your typical tech conference. OhMichele Hansen  37:26  my god. Yeah,Colleen Schnettler  37:27  everything was better.Michele Hansen  37:28  The food was amazing. The venue like I loved how I mean, you were saying how like a lot of conferences, you're just in the hotel. And we were like, out and about in the city like everything all over the city. And it was such a cool city too. And I feel like we really got to experience like culture and and just in a way that yeah, you're you're not just like stuck in a hotel ballroom for three days.Colleen Schnettler  37:51  Like, okay, so this is not a dig because I love rails comp. But I remember it was the last rails comp I went to before COVID. They're like, Oh, it's in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is a great city, blah, blah, blah, literally, you stay in the hotel, and then you walk through the breezeway to the ballroom, you never go outside, ever. And point being like yeah, of course, you can go outside but, but all of the activities are like you you never leave it you don't ever have to leave the hotel. And so I loved how founders comp really made an effort to get local venues, support, you know, local businesses, and actually see Mexico City loved it.Michele Hansen  38:29  I I really, really hope they have it in Mexico City next year. Like dude,Colleen Schnettler  38:33  I hope we get to again get in because there's going to be freaking every one is going to want to go it's going to add the fight to the death and who gets to go. Geez.Michele Hansen  38:45  Well, I think I think that about wraps up our recap, though. I feel like we're gonna be talking about this. And like, Oh, yes. So many learning summit for a long time. Yeah, so many learning, and also having people come on the show who we met at founder Summit, and no, and no three founders Summit, too. Because there's also the the online community, which you should totally be in a mastermind group, by the way.Colleen Schnettler  39:13  Yeah, I'm thinking about that. Like, I, I think that's probably a valuable thing. I'll probably do that. And IMichele Hansen  39:18  think that would help with you're like, Should I do this? And then people are like, yeah, and you're like, Yeah, okay.Colleen Schnettler  39:26  I feel like a lot of this is just trusting your gut, which I'm usually pretty good at. But like, with the business since it's all new, like I just haven't really just been doing what I think is best. Like I said, I've been asking permission just to random people, which is kind of weird, because I don't want to make a huge misstep. But the truth is, all of these things, none of them are going to be huge missteps and they can all be changed if it's a bad decision. So so that's really this week. I've been crushing some life, but by work work, is what I mean by that. Like, I've just been like, I've been I've just been like really crushing it and it feels great. SoMichele Hansen  39:58  it's awesome. Awesome well so next week I interviewed Matt wensing was super fun so then we will chat again in two weeksColleen Schnettler  40:12  sounds great talk to you then

Comedian and podcast host Youngmi Mayer (Feeling Asian) joins Jenn to talk starting late, divorcing young, and mom'ing in a panic.   EPISODE TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE BELOW   FOLLOW YOUNGMI: Insta | Twitter | TikTok: @ymmayer FOLLOW JENN: Insta | Twitter: @jennwelchnow FOLLOW LADYHD: Insta | Twitter | TikTok: @ladyhdpod PRODUCED BY LEFT HANDED RADIO: Insta | Twitter: @lefthandedradio ***** LOVE THE PODCAST? WANT TO HELP SUPPORT PRODUCTION COSTS? Join the LadyHD Patreon and get sweet perks / goodies or Leave a tip in the LadyHD tip jar   Very rough, not proofread, episode transcript:  Jenn Welch 0:00 Hey friends If you liked ADHD and you want to support the podcast, go to patreon.com slash lady HD, there is tiers and levels and goodies and prizes. So check it out. This is where the theme song should go ba ba, ba ba ba, ba, ADHD. Oh my gosh, it's time I am here. I'm am I awake? I don't know, guys. It's lady HD, a podcast for distractible women. I'm your host, Jenn Welch I am. Ah, deep breath. That was more of an exhale. Okay, so I am here today with my guest who I'm so excited to have on the podcast. Because of for so many reasons, but especially because I won't get into it. But um, she has an amazing podcast called feeling Asian that she hosts with another very funny comedian named Brian Park. Um, and she is great. And everybody is clapping for you. Just a heads up. Everybody's so excited. It's like worrying, like the audience is so loud. It's guys. Here she is Youngmi Mayer. Yay. Hi. Youngmi Mayer 1:12 Hi, john. How are you? Jenn Welch 1:14 Oh my god. I'm here. How are you? Youngmi Mayer 1:20 I'm really good. I um, I had I had a like a zoom work call today one zoom meeting and it you know, it ruined my entire life. I'm completely wiped out. Jenn Welch 1:34 Yes. Was it same minute saying? Oh my god. Yeah. I if I have one thing on my to do list these days that involves interacting with another person. That's it. Like, I it's too much. Youngmi Mayer 1:47 Yeah, it's done. It's over. Yeah. And then I knew that I would. I was gonna do this with you at six. So like, starting at four, I started like, spiraling and being like, I can't do it. I gotta lay down in bed and just get ready for 6pm. Doing Jenn Welch 2:06 having, you don't have ADD? I don't know what you're talking about. I that's incredible. And yes, um, I Okay, before we get too far in, because I normally do this before we start and you might remember this from improv class, but um, I, I because we I like my conversations to be loosey goosey. And like, kind of just see where they go. So if at any point, we get to something where you're like, I don't want to talk about that, Jen. You can just yell boundaries. And I'll yell boundaries. And then we'll like cheer and move on. Because we celebrate boundaries in life. Okay, so that's just I'm putting that out there. So you know, if we get into anything weird, not like, I don't can't even imagine what we would get to that I would be like, but who knows? Some people have things where they're like, I don't want to talk about that in a podcast. You don't I mean, yeah, Youngmi Mayer 2:55 I have no boundaries. So it's probably not going to happen. I would be shocked if it happened. Giving me that option. Jenn Welch 3:03 Of course, of course, I'm. So we actually met a few years ago, when I was teaching improv, and you came in and you were a student. And you were so funny. Oh, you're so but you were so quiet. And I remember just being like, She's so funny. And then I remember you asking me like something about like, doing sketch comedy, or doing stand up and I was like, please do it, please do it, please do it. And then all of a sudden, I started seeing your name pop up everywhere. And I just have been like, over here just like kind of, not to be a creep. Okay, not to be a creep, but I've been, but I've been, you know, you keep track of certain people. And I've been over here just kind of like watching you like, like, blooming again, blossom, you know, and I it's just been so exciting to see. And I you're just like fucking killing it. And I think you're funnier than me. And, and that's true. I just want to put that out there. But like, Youngmi Mayer 4:10 you're allowed to have your feelings but you know, that doesn't mean that they're true. Jenn Welch 4:14 That's right. feelings aren't facts. But it's been so awesome to see cuz I just remember you being in class and and again, just like being this like, a quiet, like, certain students are just like quiet thunder, like, you know, like they're not that was like, outgoing. Like, I don't want to say you're not outgoing. Because clearly, you know, you know, whatever. But um, yeah, what Tell me tell me things. Youngmi Mayer 4:41 You know what's so crazy Jen? I like so I had this like whole so I started comedy very late. I'm like, old I'm like 36 I started when I was 33. I think I was in your class. Yeah. And it's like something I wanted to do all my life and it was like the sort of like, like something happened in therapy where I had like enough. epiphany and I was like, I gotta do this now whatever, right? And then, and now I'm like very loud and extrovert I'm like comfortable doing stand up, I can talk in front of a room of people clip just been doing it for three years, which isn't that long, but I've just been doing it every day. But I I, for most of my life until I was 33. I was like the person that you were describing, I was just very quiet and never said anything. I was really shy and, you know, like, like, anxious all the time. And he never talks out loud. And so it's interesting to hear you say that, because I forget so often that that I've only recently like, sort of come out of my shell. Jenn Welch 5:40 Yes. So here's that. Here's the thing that I don't tell you guys what I'm teaching. But I didn't start I may have mentioned this, but like, I didn't start doing improv. I was also a late joiner to The Club. I didn't start doing improv until I was 30. And I, I was writing comedy before that, but I avoided performing at all costs, because I hated being in front of people. And I hated like having to talk in front of a group. And, and I was so like, scared to like, talk in front of anybody. And then. And then I did improv, and I was like, holy shit. And then eventually, like, stand up was like what I wanted to be doing right. And that took me like, a few years to like, get there. So I didn't start stand up until I was 34. And, yeah, and I, I think I'm making assumptions. But I, I'm just going to talk about my experience. But when I started improv, also, it was because of a therapy session where we put together a SMART goal. And it like a SMART goal is like, specific, measurable. actionable, I think, realistic and timely, or something like that. Anyway, so so it was like, it's something you like, take an action on. It's realistic in like a reasonable amount of time. And so my SMART goal that we put together was for me to sign up for a level zero improv class. Oh, wow. Yeah. And that like, is just kind of like, what kicked it off. And I was. At that point, I was seven years into a while, I mean, three years into the marriage, but seven years into a very bad relationship. Wow. And so he was a musician, and everything revolved around him doing music. And so for me to like, do this was like a big deal. And that doing that class gave me confidence down the line, to be able to get out of that marriage and that situation. And like, basically, I don't even recognize who I was, anymore. Youngmi Mayer 7:52 Well, you know, that's, that's also very similar. I wasn't in a horrible relationship, but I wasn't in a long term relationship. I was married. Yeah. And, and I was supporting his career to, uh huh. And it wasn't a bad like, he is fine. But I just didn't want that role in life, like the caretaker role. And I think we were so used to that being like me being like, his manager or something. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And then we got divorced. And then like, around the same time, I think I got divorced right after starting your class, I think that fall or the next spring or something like that. So. So that's so interesting that we have so many similarities. Jenn Welch 8:33 Yeah. Yeah. It's It's crazy how that like, and when I say it was like, a bad relationship. It was. It wasn't like, oh, he like MMA. I mean, yeah, yeah. But it was healthy for you. I was like, a shell of a person. Like, yeah, yeah. It was like a very, and a lot of it. Like, I mean, not a lot of it, but a big part of it was Unknown 8:57 I Jenn Welch 8:59 trying to, like, be a wife that he wanted me to be when I have ADHD and I'm constantly like, fighting against all of my, like, natural impulses to like, yeah, a wife who manages groceries and keeps the house clean and close and all of that stuff. Youngmi Mayer 9:22 I like don't know, when I wake up, I wake up every single day in a panic. Not sure what's gonna happen. Yeah, it's like so bad. And you know, I have a son and it's, I feel bad because I feel like he has like, he has some like, not behavioral issues, but he has like, he struggles with certain things at school because I think because of me, you know, not not to like be too hard on myself. But like, the teacher will be like, well, when's his bath time I'm like, I don't know. I don't even I sometimes I give him a bath. And I'm just like, like, sometimes at 9am sometimes At 3pm I like I don't you don't I mean, yeah, when When does he go to bed? And I'm like, ah, I swear he's sleepy at night. I was like, it's for what I'm trying to fix that for him. But like, oh, but I wanted to say the thing about the Epiphany, the thing that I had in my therapy session, it was really crazy. Because you you said, like, you set like an actionable goal or something like that. Yeah. What happened for me was like, my entire life. I always wanted to do comedy, right? Yeah. And I had literally never told a single person in my entire life. And then one day in therapy, my therapist was like, well, like, we were like, discussing these problems that I had with like, my ex husband or whatever. And then one day, she, I just was like, I've always wanted to be a stand up comedian. She was like, that's so weird. I've like never heard you say anything like that. You've never even said anything close to ever wanting to perform. I just said it out loud. Yeah, I was like, just like, oh, like, that's so weird. I've never heard any like, literally, but in the back of my head. I've been thinking about it for my entire life. Like I just heard myself. And so I said out loud, and literally that next day, I signed up for like, open mics, and I just started doing them every day. And it was like, yeah, it's not crazy. Jenn Welch 11:21 I love it. I know, right? It's like so scary to say that first thing I didn't tell anybody about the wanting to be a stand up thing until it was in 2004. When I told a friend while we were drunk at the Toronto Film Festival, I was working for a film studio at the time. And some friends of my husband, who are I mean, they weren't close friends, but he was acquaintances with the Lonely Island guys, Andy Samberg, and your Matt taccone. And the other guy. So they had just gotten hired on SNL. And I was so jealous and I didn't even want to be in SNL. I don't want to be on SNL, but I wanted to be doing comedy. And I just remember like drunkenly telling a co worker that I wanted to do stand up, and I was like, mortified that I even said anything. Words, you know, it was like, Oh, um, but I Yeah, and I think that there is something to be said about. I mean, at least in my experience, like, just because I got a late start, and because I know I want it so bad, because here's the thing like you. I mean, I'll speak for myself, but I think that you'll relate to this, like, we've had the experience in our adult life of not doing comedy. So no matter how bad comedy gets, it's never as bad as not doing comedy. Yes. I also, yeah. Youngmi Mayer 12:55 spend the rest of my life doing open mics and get hooked on, like getting booked on a bar show. That's so exciting for me to. Like, I never even thought that I was allowed to do what I wanted to do, you know, like, to go to the back of a bar and someone's do stand up in front of three people. That's amazing. Jenn Welch 13:17 And then those three people are gonna laugh at what I'm saying. And even if they don't laugh at what I'm saying, it's like, I it's like, Okay, well, that's still not worse than the worst, you know. Exactly. Yeah. I sometimes, like I just remember, like, maybe being around where you're at, in terms of like years having done comedy, and just walking around New York City and being like, in my head, like, I'm a comedian in New York City. I'm a comedian in New York City. And it's like, a lot of comedians are like, Oh, I suck. Oh, everything sucks. And I'm like, every day is a miracle. Like, every day that I am able to do this. It's like a miracle. Youngmi Mayer 13:58 That's how I feel. I'm like, this is I'm so grateful. I have that kind of moment. The summer before quarantine, so I can two summers ago now. Where I was booked on the show at the UCB Hell's Kitchen like that big theater. Yeah. And it was summer, right? It was like June. And I was like wearing like a sun dress or something. And I was walking there. And I was like, kind of late. So I was like, get out of my way. I'm a comedian. And I was in that moment. I was like, Oh my God, look at me like I'm wearing a sun dress. I'm walking through like New York, Manhattan in the summer. And I'm going to this big theater where I'm going to perform. That was my one little moment I had. It's all downhill from there, Unknown 14:41 baby. Jenn Welch 14:43 Love it. I love it. Oh, it's so good. I'm so glad I've been like wanting to talk to you about this, like forever, but it's like is the conversation worth it if we're not recording it for an audience, you know, so I'm glad we're finally in. work. I leave finally. situate Youngmi Mayer 15:01 that this is the first time we've talked since your class, right? So yeah, yeah, this is great. And then after we'll hang out. Jenn Welch 15:08 Yes. We will go for walks in the city and I will get outdoors. What? What's your dog? What's up everybody? Just imagine right now that young is holding a dog. Youngmi Mayer 15:18 A little Chihuahua. long haired Chihuahua. Her name is corn. Oh, and she's just beautiful bitch. Jenn Welch 15:26 beautiful little bit. Oh my god. I love her. I love her. Yeah. Um, back to AD add. You told me you got right. What are we talking about? You told me you got diagnosed. I I swear to God every day when I wake up. It's like I'm reinventing. Like, everything like that. Like, it's not like, Oh, you wake up, you get in the shower. And then you do this. And then you do that. It's like, I wake up and the possibilities are endless. And I'm frozen. It's like, yep, yeah. Okay, so anyways, nothing for three hours. Yep. I just want to say I relate to that. But you got diagnosed. You said earlier this year? No, Unknown 16:08 yeah. Youngmi Mayer 16:09 Wait, when? Well, I had like, what happened? God, I don't remember mice. So I had, okay, so my psychiatric journey, which is, you know, like the medical part, like, I obviously don't really like no, like, medication has ever worked for me. But it started with being diagnosed, diagnosed with depression. And, um, years ago. And then. And then, like this, I guess this is like, on unprofessional sort of diagnosis. But like years and years ago, in my early 20s, I did a lot of cocaine. And yeah. And like, for me, a lot of times I would do it and then I would fall asleep. Or I would feel like, I would feel like I did this. Maybe this is wrong. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. But I, I am assuming that it's because I have ADHD, and it was sort of acting like, maybe like what Adderall does to Yeah, add? I don't know if that's correct. But I would just have a weird reaction to cocaine, like, a lot of times, it made me feel really calm, you know? Yeah. And then a lot of times, I would do a lot of it, I will talk a lot stuff. But like, sometimes it would just feel kind of different to me, I think, than other people. That is such an educated statements. I don't even know if that's Jenn Welch 17:26 accurate. But I felt like that's how a lot of people kind of find out it like a lot of people who are diagnosed. And when I say a lot of people these numbers are this is not scientific. But I hear for me, I read from a lot of people that I anecdotally, um, I mean, I noticed in college that whenever I did Adderall, did my friend's Adderall. I could actually, like, you know, it'd be party time, but I would be like, let's talk about the term papers we're supposed to be working on. Like, that's like, Youngmi Mayer 17:58 Yeah, I would do my roommates, Adderall, and I could sit down and do stuff. And I could never, I could never, you know, yeah. So then. So that's like, something I noticed just like by myself, and then, um, I just all the Add thing, I feel like it was meant. So like, I had a really bad psychiatrist, the one that I got all the antidepressants from, like, five, five or so years ago. And like, he sort of like mentioned it, but then I was sort of like, I didn't really like him. So I never really followed through and I stopped seeing him. And then, like I and I never in my head thought it was like something that was like, detrimental to my life. Like I thought it was like, it never really bothered me, like all these issues. But then during the pandemic, it's gotten completely out of hand. Like what you were saying about the sleeping thing. I sleep in two hour like patches. Yeah, I literally can't do one thing a day. Like I literally it would kill me to like, do one. I don't even know what I do. I do nothing. Yeah, worse. And then I get really overwhelmed. And then I get a bunch of anxiety. And then I'm always late, like I, um, I have this thing where like, I'll have to be somewhere in 15 minutes and I'll leave like 14 like what was one minute and I'm like, how did I think I was gonna get there and I just, I can't get out of I can't leave on time. Like, Jenn Welch 19:30 I know what that is. Once I'm out of my apartment, I tend to be kind of okay, as long as I didn't go someplace where I can settle in, right like if I were to say like say it's the old days and like the pits still open and maybe I would go in there and like work for a few hours and then I would have to go somewhere after that. I would be late to the thing I had to go to after that because I settled in and gotten comfortable or whatever. right but like leaving the apartment is a God dang nightmare. I I, I will not do anything for days. And then in the half hour before I need to go somewhere, I will suddenly be like, oh, now's the time to do all the things. Right? And yeah, I will start like, Oh, it's time to clean the oven. And it's like, no, it's not time to clean the oven. It's time to frickin go. And it's like, if my brain, okay, you know how like a dog sometimes, like when you went on, like, say you're taking your dog on a walk, and your dog happens to find like a sweet piece of pizza on the sidewalk in this one spot, right? One day, and you have to, like, get the piece of pizza out his mouth. Because it's like, No, no, no. But whatever. Um, I found that piece of pizza. And now every time you take your dog on the walk, it has to go check out that spot. Because one time there was pizza there. Right? Like, yeah, that is what my brain is like, with, with really quick commute times. Like, if one time I got from A to B, in a very short amount of time, like everything lined up, it just worked out. I do my brain, my brain is like, that's how long it takes. It takes that tiny amount of time to Yeah, Youngmi Mayer 21:10 I do that with my son's school. Because it's like, once we got an Uber there, and it took 12 minutes. And now I'm like, Okay, now we can leave. We can leave at 818. And we'll and I'm always late every day. And I'm like, Why are Why are we here at nine What happened? I do that all the time. It's so bad. Jenn Welch 21:29 It's so bad. I just don't even understand how somebody experiences time in in a way that like is useful. For I don't Youngmi Mayer 21:38 know how to how am I supposed to know when to leave my apartment how like, I don't get that at all. Jenn Welch 21:44 There was a period, there was a period in time where I had an okay therapists, and this was when I was married. And it was a constant source of tension between my ex and I, this whole like leaving the house thing. And what they told me to do was to take so I had colored index cards so that I wouldn't lose them on my desk with all of my piles of paper, right? Yeah. And when I had to leave somewhere, I would take a colored index card at the like, top of it, I would write the time that I need to leave, right. And then from there, I would write everything that I knew I need to do before I leave like shower, dry hair, eat food. And I would like right out how much time each of those things take and then subtract that from the time that I need to leave. And then that's how much time I needed to start. Like that's so it's like I had to have so stressful. I know, right? Because it's like, Okay, so in my head, it's like, oh, so I need to leave at 330 that means I don't need to even think about the thing that I'm going to until 330, right. Which means I can be in my pajamas, I can be sitting here like, you know, filthy, I can be like whatever and then 330 hits and now it's time to leave. So now I think about it. When really I needed to like start getting ready at 230 because I need to shower and all of that stuff. Yeah, that never somehow makes it into the equation. That's my issue too. Youngmi Mayer 23:13 My big my big thing is eating food. I can just like, I'm like, well, and then I'm gonna have to leave here at two because it's at 215. And then it's like 150 and I'm like, I haven't eaten I'm starving. I need to eat I need to make myself. And then I look at the clock like 230 I'm like oh no, that's never calculate the food time. Jenn Welch 23:38 I never calculate the food time. I never get like I am sitting here next to my bed. I have just a case of brownie bites that I got yesterday. And this is all I've eaten between yesterday and today because they're here because they're here and I can reach them and I'm hungry and I have half a brownie bite. And I'm like, this is not this is not healthy eating. Right. This is not good and sustainable. And then I'm like why do I sleep weird? Unknown 24:07 Yeah. Youngmi Mayer 24:10 I wish I had the answers. And so then the diagnosis, the diagnosis thing is interesting, because so I was like, so five years ago or something, it was like put on the table that I've add and I was like, I don't want to I don't want to think about this. It's not really detrimental to me, right. And then during quarantine, it got to the point where I'm now like, I'm always late for everything. I can't, I can't do anything. I'm just like, in the state of like, confusion and absolute utter chaos at all times. Like every time I have a work call like this thing I've remembered I'm pretty good at writing it down on my calendar now. But like I have so many times I'll just be like, somebody will be like, hey, what Where are you? Why aren't you on the zoom call and I'll be like, like in the middle of the street or something. I'm like joining like that. Just always happens to me. So I was like, sounds like Okay, so now it's getting to this point where it's just like, it's not manageable. So I, so I signed up for, because I was like, kind of broke. And this actually didn't save me money, but like a, like an online like an app where you call a psychiatrist. And it's kind of bogus. I think it's just for people who are addicted to Adderall, who like taking recreational, that's the vibe. It's kind of like a BS, like, get some Adderall. And so I called them and I was like, you know, I've had issues with this. And like, I now at this point, my life is just like, not manageable. And then the doctor was like, asking me all these questions, because I have all these other things that are like, not don't really align with ADD. And she was like, she was like, I, I hear you have, you definitely probably have ADD, but also, I'm hearing a lot of stuff that I think you might have bipolar, too. And she was like, you need to really just go see an actual psychiatrist, because I can't just prescribe you Adderall. Because a lot of times that like, increases your chances of becoming suicidal. If you're not diagnosed Korea, like correctly, and she was like, you know, like, she was like, I think you should do that. So then I was like, Okay, and so that's where I am in my diagnosis, like journey. Yeah. Um, so. Yeah, so like, that is like my official story. Jenn Welch 26:30 But it's a good one. Yeah. So did you end up going to see, like in person, psychiatrist, no, but Youngmi Mayer 26:37 I'm like, I should, like, it's Jenn Welch 26:40 literally the, it's the fucking hardest part of managing all of this is that you need to make appointments with people and, you know, whatever, and have initiative to actually, like, take care of it. Youngmi Mayer 26:54 Yeah, but also, a big part of the reason why I'm not doing it is because I do not want to get on medication. Like I don't actually want to be on Adderall. Which is, like, I have taken it like in the past recreationally. And I felt like great, like, I can get things done, but like, also, it felt bad too. And I you know, I don't know. Yeah, mentally, it's not something that I kind of want for myself. So that's like a big part of why I'm like, Well, what am I gonna do? They're gonna just prescribe me medication that I'm not going to want to take anyway. So Jenn Welch 27:24 yeah, no, I know, it's so hard. And there is like a propensity, who I said, propensity, there is a propensity for, like, doctors to just kind of like throw some medication at you and not really address any of the like, you know, behavioral things or things like that to kind of I feel like ADHD, Twitter has, like, given me so many tools. Just like, I follow a bunch of like, ADHD related accounts on Twitter that just, like, throw great information out during the day, and I'm like, oh, duh. Okay, that makes sense. And that's like, where I get my it's almost like it's almost like coaching in a way. You know, to me, it's almost like yeah, having like that. Youngmi Mayer 28:13 I get a lot of information from Tick Tock serious, like all these doctors and stuff on Tick tock, and I'm like, Okay. Jenn Welch 28:23 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I like certain things. I like, do you know about rejection sensitivity dysphoria? Youngmi Mayer 28:33 No, tell me Oh, that's like a big thing with people with ADHD. We're incredibly sensitive to like any sort of perceived rejection. Like where it's like, physically painful at times. And, and it can even just be something like a facial expression or something like that. We're like, Oh, God, or you know, like, and that is something that like a lot of people with ADHD deal with and don't realize that it's like, actually a thing and not just that. Yeah. And I have that really bad. Jenn Welch 29:09 Yeah. Unknown 29:12 Dating is a nightmare. Oh, my God, I Youngmi Mayer 29:15 go absolutely ballistic. Not not in that. Like, I just like, like ghosts so hard. If there's any sense of that. I'm just like, whoa, I'm never gonna talk to that person again. No. Yeah, nightmare. Jenn Welch 29:27 Yeah, that's it. Um, yeah. And but it's like, it makes sense when you kind of like get when you look at this sort of, like, why have it like, well, I don't know if this is okay. Again, I might just be making up like connections here but like basically like kids with undiagnosed ADHD. Like, get, like if a normal kid gets like, corrected or like reprimanded, like maybe like 10 times a day like a kid with like, undiagnosed ADHD gets like corrected or reprimanded. Like something like 250 times a day. So we're just like exposed to so much more like of that energy. So we're really sensitive to it. And also we don't understand why we're getting like corrected or like, whatever, because it's like, whatever we're doing makes sense to us. So that is that's like part of that's, that's part of it. Youngmi Mayer 30:23 When were you diagnosed with ADHD as a kid? No, Jenn Welch 30:27 I took Well, I took a self test in a Parade Magazine, like a paper when I was 16. And I was like, Mom, I marked like, I hit every point, except for hyperactivity, which I say that but I also like tap danced four nights a week and was on the cheerleading squad and like, you know what I mean, like, so maybe I just wasn't hyperactive because I was in so many, like, physical, you know, extracurriculars. But, um, but I basically like, you know, everything. And my mom was like, oh, everybody feels that way. Which because my mom probably has undiagnosed ADHD, that's how she sees things. Um, so it never got addressed. I went to college was a fucking nightmare. I ended up like, getting in. Basically, I was 28, I had stopped working. So I worked for a film studio for a while out in LA, I was late to work every single day, I was like, I was just like, hanging on by a thread the entire time I was there. And then I got a job freelancing for one of our vendors, like, working from home. And I suddenly realized I still wasn't getting anything done. Even though all the people at work, who I could blame on me not getting anything done, or some, like they were no longer in the equation, and I'm still not getting anything done. And that's when I was like, you know, kind of similar to like you with the pandemic, where suddenly you don't have like, any sort of like routine or anything. And you're like, Oh, this is me, and it's not good. Um, yeah, that's when I went to a psychiatrist out in LA. And so I was 28 when she diagnosed me, and she was like, You are textbook? And I was like, Oh, great. Um, yeah. And so it's been a real game changer. Getting that diagnosis. But again, it was like, mostly at that point, it was like, Okay, well, here are some medication, and I'll see you once a month, and like, you know, whatever. But I still had to deal with all of the things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Youngmi Mayer 32:42 And then, and then you started doing therapy shortly after that, or? Jenn Welch 32:46 Well, I moved to New York, in 2010, with my ex. And when I got out here, I went and met with a psychiatrist about getting my medication handled. And he met me. And he was like, I think you need to come in here weekly. And I was like, Okay, and so I started going in weekly, and he was amazing. And that's, I he was my therapist for like, seven years. Wow. until he retired, and then I went into trauma therapy, and then I have been in weekly therapy now for like, 11 years. Hmm. Yeah. Youngmi Mayer 33:27 It's the best. Yeah, I agree. Unknown 33:30 Yeah. Youngmi Mayer 33:31 Wow, what a journey. And here we are. I really, you know, honestly, I feel like there's like, I mean, definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with me or you. And I want to move away from that kind of language. But it's a different way that our brains be working. Jenn Welch 33:53 It's, it's a very different way. It's a very different way. And I commend you for, for being I want to, so I'm going to be 41 soon, and I really want, I wanted to have kids, I didn't think I would ride out my late 30s and early 40s in a pandemic, but here we are. Both, but like, I have a friend who like just have like some embryos implanted and I'm like, maybe I could do that, you know, and she's like, She's like, I have an extra vial of my daughter's firm. So we could have like, siblings, and I'm like, Oh, that's hilarious. That would be so funny. But um, Unknown 34:31 didn't to day, Jenn Welch 34:32 I think about how I think about my daily routine. And I'm like, how would I do this? And so I just want to say I commend you for like, getting it done. Like, no matter how you get it done, like, it's incredible. It's crazy. I'm Youngmi Mayer 34:48 like, I don't watch who let me be a parent. I mean, obviously, I love my son. I feel like I'm a good mom and that way like I have, you know, like Want to love for him? And you know what I'm just like, I can't the brush, like I can't brush his teeth all the time, like, but then you hear a lot of moms and moms and dads or parents who just don't even have ADHD. And they're like, I don't want to brush his teeth every day. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, he's easy on yourself, I think. Jenn Welch 35:22 Yeah, well, that's the thing. It's like, nobody's perfect. And everybody has their own shit that they're struggling with. And it's like, Yeah, I don't know. I think that like, one thing that I kind of. I think that I don't know where I'm going with this. I have like 14 thoughts. On the one hand growing up in a house where I think one of my parents had undiagnosed ADHD, I think that I've hung like, I definitely have. I think I'm very open to like, exploring new options when it comes to like ways of living, if that makes any sense. where it's like, maybe, maybe I like my current place. I don't like curtains because for like, various reasons. So I got chalk markers. And I drew awesome designs on my windows, like, you know, like, and that's like, the sort of thing that happens when you grow up in a house where not everything's perfect all the time is suddenly become a person who at 40 years old thinks it's cool to draw on your window. Like you live in a convenience store. Youngmi Mayer 36:39 I mean, I do stuff like that all the time. Do you have these? Like, obviously this like, add thing? Do you have these like little projects where you buy everything for it, and then it just like sits and I have, I decided I was gonna become a stick and poke tattoo artist. So I bought so many tattooed needles, all the ink, and then I started doing them on my legs for practice. So like, all the areas above, my knees have covered and little stick and poke tattoos. And then I forgot, it's just like collecting dust, but I was really into it for a month. And then I have a rug making kit that I was gonna make rugs and sell rugs that's like in the corner. So it sounds like one of those things. Jenn Welch 37:15 Oh, absolutely. Well, and that's the thing too. Like, once somebody pointed out on ADHD Twitter, that I'm basically ADHD is like we start the day with a dopamine deficit. And then we spend the rest of our day hunting for dopamine. And we don't really want to do anything unless it gives us dopamine. And yeah, so it's like, we find these new hobbies. And we're like, oh, this is the thing that gives me dopamine. And you we do a gazillion stick and poke tattoos on our leg. And then suddenly, it reaches the point where like, it becomes a little ho hum routine, and it doesn't give us dopamine anymore. And then it's like, we will never do it again. Youngmi Mayer 38:00 So one of the things I've like the psychiatrists was like, really concerned about was because I have like a very promiscuous dating life. Like, I don't know if that's the right word. promiscuous sounds like so like 19 1920 is like, I'm showing my ankles. Like, like, I have a very, like, maybe like, I like engage in like, high risk behavior, like sexually, right? And I always like see it like, I think, I don't know enough about bipolar to like, know what that even means. But like, I always see like, Oh, of course, I want to, like go on this date with this guy and have sex with him. Like, I, that gives me so much like dopamine. It's so exciting. But yeah, Jenn Welch 38:43 I don't know. I feel like dating is one of the hardest things with this. Because on the one hand, it's like, yes, immediate gratification. like yeah, I mean, haunt, like, whatever, which means I'm not always making the best choices for myself, like emotionally because I'm just like, ah, but then on the other hand, like, that's like the one hand of it. And then on the other hand of it, I'm so aware of all of the ways that I'm like, kind of a letdown as a lady that I ended up being way too, like lenient in terms of my standards with a dude where like, I'm like, Oh, you live in an ashtray? It's okay, my apartments kinda messy, you know, and it's like, oh Youngmi Mayer 39:26 my god, I'm like that too much. I should not be on a date with this person. No. Jenn Welch 39:36 Yeah, so it's like the whole dating with ADHD thing is hard. I feel like that's a whole nother episode that we need to get into my producers probably like Jenn We're at 40 because that's where we are but I think that you need to come back on and we need to talk about that because a lot um, I Unknown 39:57 Youngmi. Jenn Welch 39:59 If people Want to find you? Where online not in a stalker sense? Where can they where can they find you? Transcribed by https://otter.ai    

Justin Letheby  0:00   Hey, welcome back to the professor of real estate. My name is Justin in case you're not aware, and this time I got to interview three very powerful National Speakers, we're all talking tech, you're going to get to learn about social media about bad creation, about where the trends we see that we need to pay attention to in 2021. So the three people we have speaking today is Jeremiah j, Mammon arrow, national speaker out of the New York area, but he speaks nationally speaks to a lot of amazing audience audiences, and helps us grow our business. Virtually really, we have Marquis lemons, another fabulous national speaker, she is a very powerhouse in her nature. And you'll see that in this event. And then we have Carrie little also, again, a national speaker, strong speaker knows her stuff very much into the tech as well as the data, combine those three together and put them in the room at one time. And you're going to see it was not only extremely informative, but it was just extremely entertaining. So please sit back, watch and listen to this scenario. And we will talk to you after the podcast. Welcome to the professor real estate podcast. My name is Justin Letheby. And I'm a realtor trainer and coach. My sole purpose here is to take my many years in real estate, as well as my even many more years as a trainer and get you to your goals and beyond. I'm going to do this by talking about business growth, development, branding, marketing, you know, basically all successful things that entrepreneurs are doing today. Hey, since I'm your tech guy, there's gonna be tech thrown in here as well. So let's go. All right, so welcome, everybody. This is just like being a professor of real estate and holy cow, it took us five minutes just to get ourselves ready to go. I'm so kidding. They were ready to fire up before I even started. So we are here today to kind of give you all the back and perspective of really how we think as real estate agents, as tech people as speakers, what we're doing on a daily basis to see where things are heading and how things are going. And that's what we're doing today. I just wanted to give you a back end. And really it might be scary, to be honest, the folks kind of how we think inside our heads on how tech is going and those conversations that we have, not only with ourselves, but with the folks around us. So with that. Let me ask you, where are you guys seeing the tech today? I'll start with Marquis cuz I know we were talking about it early on. So Marquis, where are you seeing real estate needs specifically about the tech ns what we need to be aware of, from an agent perspective. Marki Lemons Ryhal  3:23   What's going on? We're glad to be here this afternoon. And I want y'all to know we stay ready according to Jay, man. So since we stay ready. Oh, no. No, no. Oh, thank you. No. So what do I think? Well, one, I think we're still very heavy on video content and repurpose in that content. When you start thinking about tools like restream, that Carrie uses quite a bit. But here's what I'm realizing were able, especially those who were earlier adapters of social media and technology, we come up with ideas and implement in 24 to 48 hours, because we've become familiar with the tech. So I think that we're gonna see a lot of new tools emerging. But the one thing that I would encourage all real estate professionals to do, stop stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, some of these tools are not relevant, they don't go back to your core business plan. It doesn't go back to who you're trying to connect with. So I encourage people to look at that before they dive into any new tools and I still need realtors to embrace video. It isn't going anywhere and those who have implemented have seen substantially more market share. They're increasing market share the rate at which they increase that market share. They're seeing substantial growth. So concentrate on videos, concentrate on repurposing the content, but then don't just buy any and everything. always come back to your broker. See what They're already providing you with. And then also think about your local Association, state association and National Association of Realtors. But everything should follow your business plan. So if you don't have a business plan, you're starting off on the wrong foot. Justin Letheby  5:16   Yeah, I would agree any weather carry j man any ad libs or add add addition to that. carrie little  5:25   I'm gonna say this, I'm an agreement with Marquis take advantage of the tools that you use every single day. So a lot of times, this is what I was telling agents, especially new agents, I just saw I was having a conversation with one of the local associations because I'm in a, in the Goldman Sachs 10,000k, businesses small business business program. And part of my growth project is research. So I added I'm doing research to figure out how many new real estate agents are coming into the marketplace. And we, in one of our local associations, it's 225 a month. And whenever I speak to real estate agents, I say to them, if you don't know where the inventory comes from, it's like owning your own Nordstrom and not knowing where they buy their clothes from. So if you haven't figured out how to master your multiple listing service, how to master your tech, your tax tools, how to master the tools from the local, the state, and the National Association of real tours, you are spending money You don't need to spend. And I'm telling you, because some today, someone was eat, people are emailing me constantly texting me, Carrie, do you need to lead? Do you need to lead? I'll tell you a lead. I'm like, No, I don't need to leave and just said, you know, what I really want to send the back is Nope, my MLS gives it to me. But you know, I'll pay them. And I'm like, so what? What are you going to sell me my zip code? Okay, great. Now, how many leads Have you? Have you scrubbed them because I have data tools that tell me as of today, in Chicago, single family residential off the markets detached. There was so many in Chicago, with a high self score, I couldn't get the data. But when I dug a little bit deeper, there are 1569 properties in the city of Chicago with a high self score and no mortgage, and they're not listed. And if I go a little bit further, 15 plus years in the home, there's 418. So when somebody says, Carrie, do you need to lead I'm like, give me a minute, because I'm just gonna create my own marketing piece and I'm just gonna go to my own subdivision. Jman  7:38   Yeah, here's Okay, I'm next. I can't wait. You know, I see carry, like, you start talking about video. I'm like this, I'm like, put me in coach who can carry carry her data. And she was like, hold up, I got the stacks of data right over here, stacks on stacks on stacks make me sad, you know what I'm saying? And so I'm all I'm all with it. I think the future is the past the present and the future will be video video is only going to be a bigger percentage of everything that we do. If you got kids that are under the age of 15. They're on YouTube, all the time that's going to become mainstream is going to be how we consume all of our information in the future. And then data using data and predictive analytics to be smarter about how you're prospecting rather than going after the whole world. Why the hell would I do that? When I got data, when it hit carry up and go, what's that high sell store girl, she's gonna go talk to people. Oh, we got them. Awesome. And then hold up those secret sauce comments from the J man over here. Messenger bot marketing on on demand resources that the consumer wants, right today's modern consumer wants you to predict what they're going to ask and have it ready for them on a platter. That's the messenger bots do. Right? What Oh, I was gonna ask about how I can buy a home and low down payment or this or that or, or Marquis son Skyler at a program working with people on how to pay off their student debt. What? I will drop this carrie little  9:12   where the houses reside. Say what I wanted to say. Listen, listen straight up. Just stay positive. Marki Lemons Ryhal  9:25   Just stay positive. That was the best you could stay positive. Oh, no. Oh, wait, carry lift that back up. Look, we got some fabulous people learned how to pivot. In today's marketplace that's straight up out of our private membership group member. Actually, she's not even in real estate. That's the look. That's the beauty of what we teach. She is in the promotional products industry but joined a Real Estate Group because we're always talking about technology and how to pivot with small to medium companies. What I've realized is that as a real estate professional, our mindset in our industry mimics other industries that they can learn a lot about their businesses. As I tell people, we use real estate case studies, but what we teach applies to any industry. Let's go back to the data, Justin, that you and Carrie teach, right? A lot of that is spec statistics, right? What I thought was the dumbest class in the world in my early 20s. But when you're 50, and you live on the south side of the city of Chicago, in the midst of a pandemic, in the midst of zero temperature, right, you want to know the probability that if I get up, if I wash my face and brush my teeth, if I put on my long johns and I go out and I warm my car up, oh, better yet? Did my car out to warm my car up? What is the likelihood of this person closing on a real estate transaction? Because guess what, we got options? I don't have to brush my teeth. I don't have to do my car out. I don't have to sit in the cold. Or some people have remote started, right? carrie little  11:05   Please put on a good bra. Marki Lemons Ryhal  11:09   Good bra. Ready? Okay. Ready? I just need. Let me just show you what I'm working with. Okay, stay good bra ready. I understand some people, bra sales are down substantially. Some of y'all need to go back on in there put on us a good brazier, as my grandmother would have said, baby. We're not gonna do that. That's why no parts of it. It's gonna hit you Unknown Speaker  11:36   no joke. carrie little  11:38   It was Brian Buffini. Marki Lemons Ryhal  11:41   Blaming O'Brien. Jman  11:43   I feel like Justin right now feels like a zookeeper that let the animals out. Like, oh, shoot. How do I get back in the cage? Justin Letheby  11:53   I'm taking notes. So you can Marki Lemons Ryhal  11:56   real estate data Gone Wild? Justin Letheby  12:00   It's but you know, what if I tell you what, I think it's a good point, though, right? Because this is how we're all sitting. Right? We're talking everybody else is feeling we are right now in that moment in life, where we're all ready to bust out the doors, right? We have been stuck inside way too long. So I get this, I think this energy is perfect. Because that's what we're all feeling Anyways, we're like, let's just go, let's go do something. Let's go get it out. Let's go hit that. Let's go do something. But going back to what Marquis and Carrie and Jay man have been saying, We've got to be tactical, right. We've got to be able to know what we're doing. And we've got to be systematic. One of the things that I feel is really important to things that I teach most people when I'm talking about this stuff is I am tired of people telling me that we need to be the person when they're ready to buy that we're thinking of them IRA say that's too late. We need to be ahead of the game we have to be before they're thinking about real estate, we need to be their thoughts because of real estate, right? That's what we need to be. So how are we as a group? How are you guys doing it today? How are you being that that go to resource before they even know they need to be that person? carrie little  13:10   Who wants to take that? You know, because Martin, listen, I'm gonna go first because when Mark he goes is over. As Mark Marcie, when she gets her ideas, I'm the one that gets a phone call on a Sunday morning at 6am. Okay, Carrie, I'm like, do I need to get Evernote out? No, no, no, no, she gets I'm like, Yes, I need to get Evernote out. Justin Letheby  13:30   So they gotta start recording the conversations. Or I could I could but carrie little  13:35   yeah, actually, you know what, you're probably right. Yeah. Okay. Just let me write that down. Record conversation with marketing in the morning. So I digress. So how do we stay top of mind? I'll tell you, it just goes back to what Jay man said. Video and for me it's been clubhouse. So when club so I was asked to be on clubhouse, and some people were like, what is clubhouse? clubhouse is the new app that allows you to have a swipe your own broadcast, and it's only audio and I was asked to join clubhouse and I was like, not another thing. What do you What are you looking for me to buy? I got all these text messages. I'm like, I can't do another thing. And so eventually I talked to one of the agents in the office and Shane was like here you got to get on because there's all these people, they're in rooms they're collaborating, they're you get to actually talk to people you would have never been able to talk to. And so what it's done for me, it has put me in the forefront to the point where now marquee I'm getting emails for people to interview me on clubhouse. So it's kind of cool. So I am now I have agents that have connected with me all over the United States. And now they're they're they're finding me on Instagram. Carrie, I found you on clubhouse and I'm now following you on Instagram. Marki Lemons Ryhal  14:51   I have a question. It's typically carrie little  14:52   someone from like Virginia. It's been New Jersey, all because of one new south. A media platform. And the cool thing is, is you really don't have to get up, get dressed and brush your teeth because no one can see. I have grown my Instagram account by 1000 new followers because of clubhouse and yes, you do need an iPhone or an iPad to join clubhouse. But here's some good news because the founders on Sunday said in about two months droid, here we come. Finally, Unknown Speaker  15:27   two months. That's a long time carrie little  15:29   it is they're working on it. But now they're there. And now they have a creative platform. They're launching some new opportunities. So So for those of us that have a show, Good morning real estate, we can now have our own show on clubhouse and they'll push it if it's a good show. Unknown Speaker  15:47   Holler Justin Letheby  15:51   shows right now, carrie little  15:52   right there you go. We got the Justin show, the professor show. We've got the six and 12 show. We got the box show. We've got the coffee with Kerry shell and we've got good morning real estate. Marki Lemons Ryhal  16:04   And the other day, Carrie and I tested four people on Instagram Live where they stated now you can leverage it to record your podcast. Unknown Speaker  16:15   Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. That's weird because I'm going to call I'm going to call my cell phone provider and ask them why that call didn't come in. I swear I even asked Marki Lemons Ryhal  16:31   you we need let me say this. We must have sent it to the wrong person in New York right because we did have a New Yorker on I just need you to know that and then Karis twin joined in. We didn't No Unknown Speaker  16:44   no, no. No, no, I Marki Lemons Ryhal  16:49   Jay, we're gonna once you finish your event today, we're gonna come and meet you. We're gonna come and meet you because clearly, I need to talk to your cell phone provider because something must not be working right? Unknown Speaker  16:59   Something something's not right. Something is not right. So we need Marki Lemons Ryhal  17:03   to think about that. Oh, Jay man didn't have his chance to speak cuz I rudely interrupted. I've got excited. I'm sorry. Unknown Speaker  17:13   Alright, so staying top of mind. I'm gonna get on clubhouse. Eventually. I might be on a on a four peat over here with with the ladies. You know, they picked another New York. I thought he only knew one person in New York. Oh, good. No, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. I understand. So good. But anyways, you know, staying Top of Mind, it's it's trying to predict what the trends are. And I think that's what's one thing when you look at us, all of us together is like, We're not afraid to go out on a ledge and try something new, right? where it's like, Damn this, this might be something, I don't know, let's go. We're literally like walking the plank and like, well, I'm about to jump, I'm gonna figure out how to fly on the way down. We talked about that all the time, when rails came out, clubhouse came out all these different, different things. pandemic hit, I'm like, oh, man, we're gonna have to do a lot of virtual stuff, right and seeing how I can do this. And now, just today, I had the AI conference, I was teaching all of the 80s throughout the land, how to hold better virtual events, when, prior to the pandemic, I had been on a zoom two times in my entire life. Wow. So it's like, I took it upon myself to learn new things. And if you're gonna learn something new, don't do it to be average, do it to be the very best that you like, if I'm gonna do something virtual, I'm gonna be the best damn virtual presenter that ever walked the land. That's the goal when you do something. Not just Oh, you know what, I think I might do some virtual stuff. I'm going to shoot to be subpar. today. Maybe average? Unknown Speaker  18:50   What the hell, man? Marki Lemons Ryhal  18:52   Clearly, J man's parents fed him a lot of affirmations and mindset as a kid going up because baby there is no shortage of self esteem. And that young man right there control j man controls, right? Unknown Speaker  19:06   Well, no. And here's the thing. My dad always told me, I could do anything I want in life, there was a lot of affirmations. But he said, if you want to be, you know, if you want to sell hot dogs, because we've talked about that in the past, you know, if whatever you're going to do be the very best at it. Because there's millionaires in every single industry in the planet, right? There's, there's somebody who does tooling and machining, which is what I actually went to school for tooling and machining and they want it right. And I said, Man, if I do this, I'm gonna have to own the place because this sucks being guy on the floor. That's what I said to myself. I'm like, how can I Okay, okay, buy this machine and figure it out. Just predict the trends. Don't be afraid to do new things. Because if we're doing it here in the United States, usually somebody in the UK or somewhere else has some YouTube tutorials already done for us on how we can be better at it. Justin Letheby  19:54   Jay, man, you just made an interesting point because I teach a certain thing and I've wondered when we hit that threshold. I will I've been teaching video for four years do video, do video do video we've been teaching that for ever. And I have told people that right now, although I'm wavering on this lately, that it's okay to fail in video, right? It's, you know, learn and take those steps forward. But I always tell them, there's a threshold where you can no longer fail, right? There's going to be a point in time where they expect the J man backgrounds on the scene, they're going to expect the quality stuff that exists out there. Are we there yet? I mean, I think so. I keep I'm stammered on saying that you, you know, I don't feel to be scared off from doing video. But just to do it. Okay, as Jay man just said, is probably not good enough anymore. Marki Lemons Ryhal  20:44   Well, he is now. So here's what I think you have to have, you have to be consistent. And you have to have content, I definitely know that I get away with not having the greatest visual, you know, like the highest camera. But I'm consistent. And here's the thing, most people do not know how to be consistent. I know that sounds real simplistic. But this is not a one hit wonder. And I was looking at someone's video the other day out of DC. He had 100,000 views on a reels most people want to get with get that 100,000 views. And that's it. Because they believe that this is a one hit wonder, we get great engagement. And once we get that great engagement, the question is how do we improve? Right? How do we do this better? What do we need to we need to pivot the camera. So we're coming back for consistency. And to me in the world of video, nothing tops, consistency and content. Or think about this one thing you can't buy and what you can't teach the ability to be vulnerable. Like we're all vulnerable, right? You can't teach that, like, you really got to have a heart, you really Who are you got to develop, I don't give a damn attitude, they'll be quite honest with you to be vulnerable, right? We've all had failures, we embrace our failures, okay, um, and they won't be consistent. They think it's all about them all about them, and they won't be vulnerable. And that's nothing you can teach in a class like you could try to teach that concept. that mindset back to Jay man. right mindset, those affirmations it's about consistency, because I know that I've put out some video that the quality was not great, but the results were freaking phenomenal. And you always carrie little  22:34   say if they can't hear you, then Marki Lemons Ryhal  22:36   they're out. Oh, audio is everything. But look at how many ways we can repurpose the audio. Right? The podcast how many platforms Can you be on the audio Graham's the Alexa flash briefings, the audio to text transcription. So now we got emails, we also have emails, we have blog posts, we have captions for all of our posts. So regardless to how you look, if you capture great audio, and I'm I'm all about the better audio, because I need to be able to repurpose that content into multiple forms of content. And I'm gonna say one more thing. Everybody also thinks that one hit wonder that everyone has solved that one post, no more than 10% of your audience ever sees any one post, because of the algorithm, we need to start thinking about every time we create one piece of content, how to repurpose or reshare that content, a minimum of 10 different ways so that they can hit people won, and their preferred or learned learning style, whether that's audio visual, or reading, and then on the platform that they desire to hang out on. carrie little  23:41   And you made a good point, Mark. And I'll go back to Justin's statement about having great video, I'm gonna say this, I started editing television back in the 90s. So I had a leg up on the editing part. But if you're if we're telling you to do video, you need to try and if it does come out awful. The cool thing is you can archive it, you can hide it, but you got to start somewhere. And Mark is right. So I've been doing reels all day to day. So I did three reels today talk about that same data, because now I've got Rochester New York on here, by the way. Marki Lemons Ryhal  24:17   Um carrie little  24:20   Yes, J man, I'm coming to your neighborhood. Oh, Unknown Speaker  24:23   wait, you know, somebody in Rochester, New York. carrie little  24:25   I might, I might. And I might know all where all the high self score properties are. I'm just saying. My point in all of this is I took that same video, and I put it on the Twitter story. I put it I went to LinkedIn but they only want to 20 seconds. So LinkedIn last, I put it on my Facebook story. I put it on Facebook groups. I put it on a Facebook page story. I put it in the feed on a Facebook group. And I actually the cool thing is is because it was my own voice. I uploaded it directly to tik tok. Marki Lemons Ryhal  25:03   multiple platforms all highly visual, right? with a different audience almost on every last one of those platforms and I carrie little  25:10   have not known on tik tok, but after my Goldman Sachs cohort and an attorney saying she did it twice, once or twice, and her company made over $265,000 Let me say that again. $265,000 because she tried tik tok, and it wasn't from the platform. It was people were calling her. And if you looked at her feed, you go No way. Cuz every post every She still hasn't figured it out. Every text shut, Her face is covered. But who cares? her staff was pissed at her. She said they never swear. But they were they cussed her out, basically, because they couldn't take a lunch for a few days. All because they tried something. Marki Lemons Ryhal  25:59   I interviewed a young lady today by the name of Candace spears. And it was all about mindset and entrepreneurship. And she wrote a book on top talking about bringing your crayons to work, right? We often come into the world of real estate, and it's to duplicate something that we've seen somebody else do. We have to become originators, right? Have in order to be a thought leader in the shortest period of time. You need to think like blue ocean strategy, and you need to come up with something new, like j man, think about meeting J. Man, how many years ago? Do we meet him carry at rapid? And what was the PowerPoint presentation skill that you told us? It wasn't PowerPoint? What's your prefer? Prezi Prezi. Okay, so we sent in this Prezi class, my mind is hurting, right? But Jay man has always had the ability to do something different, something that the people who have been around longer are not going to be willing to take the chance, which is how he's been successful in pivoting his business. In the past 12 months there, people we have not seen in real estate education since before March the 13th 2020. Think about that, because of their inability to do something different. My competition has narrowed. I don't have to me I don't have new competition, the competition, it fewer people because of their inability to try some of these things new. And the more you tried, right, the the stronger your foundation is to build other new items upon. carrie little  27:37   There's a, there's truth to if you were to take that concept to the new Michael Jordan, Jim shoe coming out, or the new iPhone or the new droid phone, there are some people that will stand in line to get the next new shiny thing. They're the ones they get it first, and then they're the ones in this case, they resell it, or they get to test it first. That's the same thing in our industry. If we're the people that Wait, you get left behind. And I'll tell you back in 2006, or seven, the Office Admin at the company I was with, she was like, Carrie, you need to try Facebook. And I was like, I don't need to try Facebook. I'm already on my space, because my kid is on my space. And I just need to be there to make sure he doesn't condemn himself and get in and I get a phone call from the high school. She was like, No, no, no, no. Let me tell you why. And I'm so glad that I listened to this 20 year old because of it, I was able to grow with Facebook. And there are some people come into the industry. And they're trying to figure out how to figure it out. Now, can it be done? Yes, it can be done. But you still have to start even if you don't have a lot of followers, we have an agent in our office that has figured out the the algorithm for reals to the point where she's grown 1000 followers in days, because she figured it out. Sometimes you just got to you got to test you got to try. And the one cool thing about what Marquis said was that Unknown Speaker  29:09   we were Justin Letheby  29:09   coming to him carrie little  29:12   he was he was like I'm out she's just sick over. See, now I lost my train of thought. Marki Lemons Ryhal  29:17   Don't lose your train of thought we normally do. And carrie little  29:23   I'll tell you, you have to get out here you have to try you have to text we will mess up and I'll talk about so another agent in our office. She came back to the business from the 90s not tech savvy and she's like, oh, Carrie, okay, Carrie, I'm gonna do the videos. And she already knows the business. And the hardest thing for us to do is to get what's here. And to put it into content. And then to put it out there to the masses. You just have to do it. Marki Lemons Ryhal  29:50   Yeah. And we say this I have. I'm stuck between two different age groups. I have some senior professionals and I mean And they are singers. And they're singers, professionals, right seasoned singer professionals who are embracing Instagram reels and tick tock, but then I'm also I have five new agents all under the age of 25. Okay. And when I tell you they get my mind going, because I was joking with Jay man, but my son called him for his back. And Skyler kind of regurgitated, I said, I think I might have mentioned that to you. But he, he needed to say it the way he wanted to say it, right. So I see how he's going to be able to merge being born and raised. And essentially, in the world of real estate. He wasn't born in this industry. He was three years old when I came into this industry. But he's been here for over 20 years, right. And so I can see how his mind is spinning right on what he wants to implement, implement. And I'm noticing that 25 year old and younger group, Oh, I love them. Like, I love them because they haven't been tainted. This is really their first career. And they're taking a hold of things substantially faster without second guessing themselves. I also see how if they had just a little bit of coaching, they can dominate market share. carrie little  31:18   Hey, this is what I heard. I heard the bionic man. They'll be better, stronger, and faster. Justin Letheby  31:28   Guys are right. I mean, here's the thing I think is interesting. Marquis and carriers that does want to come to J man here in a second is I think one of the things that's very interesting, you guys, all both of you are saying is, I am listening to the people that are challenging status quo, right? You when you are you are listening to people saying no, no, no, no. Let's try something different. You're not going No, No, that can't work, which have the industry or more saying to you every day. No, that won't work. No, that won't work. No, that won't work. You're going, huh. Okay, they're challenging that. What's to that? Why are they doing I mean, you're asking those questions. You have open ears. So going to you know, you know, again, we showed us the very beginning, Marquis and Mark Hughes kid and Jamie were talking earlier about bots. And you know, I think that's interesting conversation because bots have gotten so much stronger lately. Right? Can I know early on and I still feel like I'm pretty smart. I can pick out a bot one. I'm getting one but I'm going to tell you it's not the first statement. It's usually about halfway through. I'm Unknown Speaker  32:27   going okay, Justin Letheby  32:27   I just got bought it. Right. It's getting much better. So j man you know going along with their saying about how our listeners go to school I don't know you as your you're a fan of Basilisk I'm pretty sure you are are you implementing those and how are you going after them and why are you seeing value in them? Unknown Speaker  32:45   So yeah, I have a product it's called sir bought a lot. Kick them nasty box. Jamie got bots. Sir bought a lot. And we have real estate bots that are built out for realtors, we actually have a board bot, which is what I introduced the ease of the conference today. And then I also have a mortgage bot that we've created, because all about is is it's a predicted conversation with a personal touch. Right? If I told you right now a seller is going to call you you say how long you've been in the house? How much is that mortgage? What's the credit line? What improvements have you made? My bot does all that already. And then until they're all done and they go with they want their home equity estimate, right? I should trademark that Home Equity estimate on that house. It's what they want. We're giving the people what they want. Especially the today's modern consumer doesn't want to hop on the phone doesn't want to walk into an office I can remember when I first started in real estate in 2005 we had opportunity time, right which makes keep harassing the office and wait for somebody to walk through the front door. That is gonna happen anymore, especially with you know COVID and post COVID. But bots, it you know, it predicts that conversation it helps build rapport for you. Because we know the statistics if we ask Carrie would tell you that today's modern consumers looking to 224 months, they're doing their research prior to ever selecting a realtor to work with. And if we can be found and that's called the zero moment of truth, if we can be found during that zero moment of truth and that information gathering stage, then they're just going to pick us as their realtors not a closing process. It's just man this guy's given me value after value after value. That's what the bots do they go Okay, here's something you want to know about first time homebuyers. Here's how you get ready your home ready for sale and every time so here you go and I walk away so to take away clothes right I walk away go here's something else that you value and I walk away well wait, wait, wait, wait, I know you need something to let me know and I walk away. Right think about every every girl or guy you ever chased after and your whole life was to one try to walk away from you. carrie little  34:54   I chase somebody Wait a minute, listen. Don't even let Marki Lemons Ryhal  34:59   God change Yeah. Luck 50 and still getting chased. Okay, I got secrets on this thing. So Justin Letheby  35:14   that's awesome. Yeah. So Unknown Speaker  35:17   in closing, I'll just say this. I try to pick something when I ask other people to go, Damn, that's hard or Yeah, I tried that. But it was. That's what I do. That's why I picked Prezi. That's why I use e cam live for my virtual stuff that all these things had a learning curve that was like this bots the same way. Because now if I can master it, people want to work with people who are an expert at something. And if it's hard for other people to figure out, don't get frustrated, just okay, this is the thing, I'm going to do this better than anybody else. Now, now they have to pick you because nobody else is good at it. Justin Letheby  35:51   Well, and that's huge, right? I mean, again, we're talking tech, but I think there's a huge word that you just said there become the expert in something. Unknown Speaker  36:01   Something Unknown Speaker  36:01   because that, carrie little  36:03   pick it pick one thing, and if you're like, if it's gonna be Facebook, if it's gonna be LinkedIn, you got to go figure out when they hang out on LinkedIn, or Facebook. And, and Mark, he said, Be consistent, we are not consistent. And sometimes I watch, and I see agents, they disappear. Because you know what I mean, now that I'm coming, My office is kind of at home one day, I'm gonna have my monitor on the screen. So I can watch Hootsuite all day to figure out what people are doing. Because I'm I mean, I'm looking at Instagram, and I'm like, Yeah, they disappeared, or I no longer see their posts, because they're not consistent because the algorithm says they're not engaging. And so you disappear. So if we're mark, you can relate maybe Jay man, maybe Justin but there used to be the thing that we used to say call holding up the wall would go to a party, and the people that will be standing on the wall, they didn't they never danced with someone, they never got a phone number. Maybe back then they never got the home phone numbers because they didn't engage. So if you go if you go Hey, how y'all know what I'm talking about? If you hang out, if you hang out on social media, and you're just the watcher, right, you're holding up the walls, everything we hold up the Facebook wall. You aren't gonna get you won't build relationships, you won't get engagement and you won't generate new leads. And if you don't build the bot because now I got I have to watch I need JV man to build then go sell them. If you're not engaging and you're not doing any of this, you're holding up the wall. Marki Lemons Ryhal  37:31   Hmm. When we do need a man to build a bot. Okay, that'd be first and foremost. I carrie little  37:37   got three now that you said that. Marki Lemons Ryhal  37:39   Here's the next thing. Clearly, I was not the person holding up the wall ever in Facebook or in real life. Cuz look, me and Jake, man. We have Tick Tock videos right. And a whole nother city in Vegas. Right at a conference getting it in. What? Oh, Unknown Speaker  38:01   is it always is always a risk if you want to do some kind of dance stuff related with Marky because then her girlfriends hop on? Yeah, that was all right. But he wasn't ready. Like I'll share the fact is that you're talking about that I wasn't ready. So I'm good. I'm good to go. That was funny. carrie little  38:21   Yeah. Five dances that we all need to practice. So we're all in the same city. We could break out a Justin Letheby  38:30   lot if you need to under practice I'm all for but man I am the whitest of white men. I have no carrie little  38:39   find some easy ones. Don't worry because I was trying to teach mark one Justin Letheby  38:42   Carlton Carlton is not the only one I got man. Marki Lemons Ryhal  38:46   You got to crawl to mastic Oh my god. Justin Letheby  38:50   I gotta have a couple. I got a couple encouraging drinks ahead of time but I can get that one out. Unknown Speaker  38:55   Oh. Justin Letheby  38:58   I need that little that little muscle relaxer. Unknown Speaker  39:02   San Diego ner 2021. Marki Lemons Ryhal  39:06   Oh, who's planning on going? I'm going I don't care. Don't nobody else go. I have to get out of the house. Am I the only one going to President circle? No. You Sarah were the kiya Pipi on McGriff. They're all they all meet you down. They're carrie little  39:22   not on market. You didn't sneak here? Marki Lemons Ryhal  39:24   Nope, I'm not sneaking in. You guys will see me back on the circuit starting in June. I need it. You know, I'm a vet. I am a COVID survivor. So as my husband I needed that vaccine to gonna kick in so that I feel more comfortable hitting the road but yeah, come June. I'm back out here. Unknown Speaker  39:43   We'll do some karaoke. I got I got the mic and then we'll just figure out what the group dance is going to be. To the hip hip hop. You Don't Stop The Rock. Justin Letheby  39:56   I'll just be the background dancer. I'm good to go. Exactly, I'll do that. carrie little  40:03   I'm good. Oh my god, oh Unknown Speaker  40:04   my god. Take Justin Letheby  40:08   the jumpsuit on right now to match. So I'm ready to go. Marki Lemons Ryhal  40:10   I was looking forward to hanging out with you guys this afternoon. Today was kind of a rough day, I got a thank you card back that I actually wrote to someone, one to 2002. And just to see the growth over time, well, one, the fact that the person saved the note, right, they sent it back to me at an appropriate time to just let me know who I was today, right? And the growth and sometimes growth You don't even know you growing. You know, I'm saying like, it's the intention, you want to be better. But when someone acknowledges that and set you back a copy, and they didn't send it back, they actually had my uncle drop it off to me. So here's the note. And it is from January of 2002. So I'm just so grateful, because the day has been emotional, just saying all that has transpired in that almost 20 years. Man, awesome. That's what Forgive me. And guess what? realize I've been writing handwritten notes for a long time. Justin Letheby  41:14   I Well, you know what, and that. I'll tell you what, so let me ask you this. I haven't done a lot of people this year, which I think is a great point. Tech trends are huge. And there's no doubt about it. Right? We all talked about how the power of being in an attack and doing that stuff. And all three, all four of us in this room. We're obviously tech savvy tech strong, right? We are that. But as anybody else seeing a back to basics, boom. Oh, Marki Lemons Ryhal  41:41   yeah. But we're going to be comfortable for a hot second here. Do I see a back to basics bones? Yeah, Unknown Speaker  41:49   they're gonna bust out some signage. Unknown Speaker  41:53   Sorry, David, Justin Letheby  41:54   I sent them off. I did. Marki Lemons Ryhal  41:57   These are the cards that I've received so far. Just this year, right. This is last year's cards that people sent me, I take them and I put them in a Christian planner. Look, look out this thing is jam packed with people who took the time to write a note sign it say something and send it to me. And that goes to say a lot Carrie was great. Pull out her direct mail. So Carrie showing her direct mail. carrie little  42:23   I showed it to you this morning. I mean, but earlier and I this is I am all for you see mark is already got her stuff. I have I have a kid that needs to do mine. But what I've What I know is based on Pew Research, we don't we don't hide where we get the data from we just go get it. Based on Pew Research. anyone under the age of now will the internet is now 31 years old. Yeah, if you are over the age of 50, you are on social media, but you're not using it the way the next generation is. So we still need a shift and and what I realized because of COVID people like the handwritten notes, they're actually they're getting you get out of the house and go to the mailbox and get my mail. And we're opening it we're taking time to read it. So if you really want to build a business, getting back to the basics, but adding the QR code I'm sure Jay man has when he could pop up on the screen. Getting back to bringing in the the new tech with traditional marketing is a game changer because I can now if someone calls me and says hey Ken, I want to buy a house. I can send it right there you go. I can send them the link to my YouTube channel that says here's the steps to buying a house. If you're a new real estate agent, I can send you the link so you got so you got your license. Now what but I can take I can actually get more views there. And then by the time you get to new you already know me Marki Lemons Ryhal  43:52   what's funny because Katie Lance pictures here. This is something that Katie Lance sent me in the mail. Right. So Katie Lance, high tech is sending out direct mail pieces. Barbara bet. Two of the best customized cards I got last year from Barbara bet, right? sent them in the mail. Now this is from Matt definers past president Illinois realtors. Now it was a fact he said the car. Do you see this penmanship like this is a real freaking handwritten note. So when you get Mac the font is barbette Katie Lance, people who are high tech, and they're sending out direct mail pieces that should not even direct mail, handwritten note, that should tell you something about its power. I have people who tagged me because I mail out books. Not only do I mail out books, right? I mail out my own custom stickers. But everything that I mailed to people, I want them to use it without my name being all over it, right something that they could just use in their business. For people to have conversation with them, so I send everybody the world's greatest real estate marketer. It don't say Marquis lemons only so that people will think that they are the world's greatest marketer. So, yep, I mail um, cuz I was social before social media. Unknown Speaker  45:18   Oh, carrie little  45:19   yes because I was selling marquee this weekend I did a photo shoot and we were outside and in when we were, we were walking so my husband and the photographer had me walking into a knee. Oh gosh, I feel bad. What was the challenge the walk challenge. And I was telling Marquis how I was so embarrassed. Unknown Speaker  45:39   Yeah, Mark, he Marki Lemons Ryhal  45:40   was like, I would have just ate that up. Justin Letheby  45:44   No, go for it. carrie little  45:47   Look, I am muzzled. mutter? No. I Justin Letheby  45:50   mean, we started this conversation by doing bots. Now we're back to letters. I mean, how how does that work for you? Are you actually are you reaching out? I mean, I know you are. But how are you reaching out other than the tech side of the world? Unknown Speaker  46:01   I would like to say that I write a lot of personal notes, but that answer would be incorrect. In my in my mind, I would like to, but here's where my my online goes offline. When we can be in person again. I am one of the best in person networkers that you will see. Because I take the social media connections that I have. And I'm strategic about, man, I was super busy. I think that was the REMAX conference where Marquis was, but I sought her out because she's my people. And I'm like Marcie Hill. I know you're busy too. You got to do presentations. Let's just get quick. 10 minutes. Let's hop outside and do a tick tock. And you know, whenever people help, so like, I make sure I'm not the guy that says when you come to town, look me up. And then not answer my phone. Right? Carrie came to Rochester I took her around Rod servicii she's got about marks the bouncer in the back there. What's up, homie? Mark? Marki Lemons Ryhal  47:00   Oh, I got you here. I got you. You got to come out to Chicago and get it make a ride soon as you finish up. Unknown Speaker  47:05   No, yeah, strap up the ride. I mean, just to could you mail it to me overnight. Marki Lemons Ryhal  47:10   No, no, no, no, we're gonna have to meet somewhere safe. Unknown Speaker  47:15   Mark needs to take me on one of those rides and one of those cars that you keep putting out carrie little  47:19   right at Bentley that this guy that I'm sure is hidden. We'll talk about that another day. Go ahead, Jamie. So Unknown Speaker  47:25   that's it. I'm done. Justin Letheby  47:27   You know, I think the thing that everyone said here and Jay man started saying it right off the bat here, right? It's zero moment of truth. And that's what everyone is doing. And we're doing it so many different ways. And that's the thing to realize is that when we're doing this stuff, we're doing it intentionally unintentionally. To be front of mind, Top of Mind right? Everything that we have done is going to keep everybody there and those conversations you're not going to forget Matt defend this for sending that card. But you're going to completely remember him for the essay he wrote in the card, right? It's it's gonna be one of those things and and those are the small things I think people forget and they can be done so many different ways. Through the videos through the bots through those conversations through all these tools to pick that out there. I know you're getting close j man to be in time to go right? Unknown Speaker  48:17   Yeah, I got I'm just a virtual emcee for about 300 people. Justin Letheby  48:21   Yeah, no big deal. Marki Lemons Ryhal  48:23   No big deal. Unknown Speaker  48:24   No big deal with the last example I'll give is one marquee was that celebration. She came into the speaker ready room. And I'm telling you like, you know, when you're when you speak somewhere, you're like, we're on and then when you go to Speaker ready room, you'd like melt into a pile of notes. And then mark came in like Jay you want to do a video? Let's go Oh, it's like you just flip the switch because that's Marki Lemons Ryhal  48:49   cuz we had an event to do up in Minnesota the gambit. Right. And so then I didn't realize when we get to Minnesota, there's two different terminals, right. So so Oh, wait, this is camaraderie. Right? So my boy David knock sends a car for me to come recording his studio. I kidnap j man, we go to david Knox's studio. We record I've been kidnapped again. And we go hang out at a whole different franchise affiliations office and get some little snacks. And then we go to our hotel room. And I know I felt sorry for Jay man. I know he like is this what you do Really? Unknown Speaker  49:26   every trip was a difference that's like this offline social networking, where like, you can see that we are consistent. And we're authentic, because we're the same people online as we are offline. 1,000% there's some people that you see him online and then you see him in person. You're like, Oh, that's a persona. That's not really you. You know, and that's it's almost like when you see behind the curtain of the wizard, like all damn ruins it. carrie little  49:54   That's marking? Well, Justin Letheby  49:57   yeah, it's authentic. Right. I mean, that's who he does good when you're Getting Hired. And when you're being seen, and when people want to use you, they want to use you not the as j man said the persona, right? They're not what they're looking for, and you're going to lose trust almost as fast. And the worst thing about it is, and we saw this early on in social media, when people were hiring to be something and they didn't divulge that it lost credibility in waves, it was a rocket throughout the social media world that was killed. So you still need to be careful about it. So with this being done, we're already talked forever. And it's awesome. And we could do this again, probably have to do it again, probably four or five more times, just to catch all the material on Unknown Speaker  50:31   purpose. A lot of content here. Justin Letheby  50:33   Yeah, a lot of stuff. So let me ask this for each one of you. Let's do it this way. We've got a few things. I'll start with Jamie, on this one. Let's, let's sit there and say what is the top tool people should be paying attention to today? Unknown Speaker  50:50   messenger bots. Yeah, Unknown Speaker  50:51   I would agree. I would agree. Marki Lemons Ryhal  50:53   I'm gonna go Facebook creator. Whoo, I Justin Letheby  50:56   like that. I like that a lot. Gary, the pressures on carrie little  51:03   is on I'm gonna say up house and Matt and and redirect to their social media channel where you need growth. Marki Lemons Ryhal  51:14   That was good advice. Good advice. Justin Letheby  51:19   I'm gonna tell people, the real simple thing, start looking to hire a virtual assistant, a real estate virtual assistant. The honest answer is, folks, I'm telling you that right now, I don't know if I just gave a secret because I saw some smiles going out into it. I don't know. But I'm telling you right now, there's a lot of virtual assistants out there that don't know real estate. And we as realtors need to be able to focus on what we need to focus on and not doing everything that we literally just got telling you done to worry about. And it's a problem for us. That was Marki Lemons Ryhal  51:50   what me and carries I believe my last two hires. Yeah, I just hired a virtual assistant. I think Kerry just hired a virtual assistant and so those were the last two hires carrie little  52:00   and a real person that's here helping me right now so Unknown Speaker  52:04   my life my livestream two weeks ago SEO experts anything was how to hire a virtual assistant. You can find it on youtube.com slash a man speaks. holler at your boy. Justin Letheby  52:12   perfect setup. Unknown Speaker  52:13   Time. Justin Letheby  52:16   Perfect time so let's plug away folks let's plug away so Jay man cuz I know you're the time crunch of all time crunch plug away, say how people need to find you what they need to know about you. Besides that, you are just amazing. So Jman  52:29   solo dot t o slash j man speaks. carrie little  52:33   I'm gonna say join me every Friday on Instagram for coffee with Kerry live. And if you go to my Instagram and you go to my link tree, I have a free download for you today. And I'll let Marquis talk about the more exciting one. Marki Lemons Ryhal  52:51   Well, that could they they can reach us at operation. I've got houses for sale. Well, we're changing mindset. And realize that there is no shortage of inventory there is a shortage of listed property. So I want to change your mind on how to go get you some properties to sale. But you can find me on Marquis lemons.com. If you spell my name correctly, you will find me all over the internet. Ma rk i l e m o n s. Justin Letheby  53:18   Well, thanks, everybody for being there. I appreciate your time. We actually this was a lot of fun, a lot of energy. I feel like I should go run about a mile now. So thanks for everybody for doing this. And we are out. Marki Lemons Ryhal  53:32   Last sale houses. Justin Letheby  53:43   Thanks, everybody for being online and listen to this. As always, please help me get this out. Get the word out what we're doing here. It is on Facebook. It's on YouTube. And if you want to see these interviews live, that's the best place to go is on YouTube Live. That is the best place for this. Find my channel. Justin Letheby. Also, please, if you are listening to this, after the fact like and subscribe to all your favorite podcasting platforms, apple, YouTube, Google whatever platform you're listening to like, subscribe and share it with your others get the word out, let them know we're doing and we'll see you on the next round.  

  Thought Row Episode 6: Vanity of Art    R: Hi everybody…welcome to the Thought Row podcast. We start our podcast with a quote from Inci. What is our quote for the day.   I: Okay here is our quote for the day. Quote: The art of a people is a true mirror to their … Continue reading Thought Row Episode 6: Vanity of Art →

The tables are turned this week as Stacey gets on the other side of the microphone. Kerri Sparling, writer of the long-running and popular blog SixUntilMe and now Children with Diabetes board member, interviews Stacey about her experience raising a child with type 1, what led her to claim "The World's Worst" title and much more. This is part of Children With Diabetes Celebrating Storyteller series. "There are some amazing storytellers in the diabetes community, and many of those folks have spent years honing their craft through blogs, books, and videos. Their stories of life with diabetes bring our community closer. Sharing stories helps make the journey with diabetes less isolated and instead paved with hope and camaraderie. (text from the CWD website) Stacey was excited to be selected to be part of this storyteller series, and even happier to be interviewed by Kerri. You can watch the video here, read the transcript below or, of course, listen to the audio on this episode. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! you can win a copy from CWD - must enter by March 20th. ----- Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! ----- Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android   Episode Transcript: This episode of diabetes Connections is brought to you by the world's worst diabetes mom real life stories of parenting a child with Type One Diabetes available as a paperback ebook and audiobook at Amazon and at diabetes connections.com. This is diabetes connections with Stacey Simms. Welcome to another week of the show. I am so glad to have you along. As always, I'm your host Stacey Sims. This is a little bit of a different week around here because we released our regular Tuesday interview episode early. If you haven't listened to that yet, it was all about the corona virus and basic information that people with diabetes need to know. Thanks very much to Gary Scheiner CDE and the director, founder of integrated diabetes services. He is always a very calm and informative presidents. He also has a great sense of humor, but I wanted to get that show out. pretty quickly, because you know, of course, as the situation is changing, podcasting is tough to get breaking news out. But we wanted to make sure to get basic information from a good source out to the diabetes community, because I've been seeing and I'm sure it's only gotten worse, a lot of rumors and the beginnings of some panic. So I hope you listened to Gary or read the interview as well, because I put it out as a blog post with just that interview, as well as a transcript with the entire episode. And I hope you've been able to share that a lot of people picked up on it and I really hope it's helped give you some good information. We'll do more as the situation changes if we need to get more information out there. And then this week is a little different because I usually do a mini episode here, where I'm just talking about one topic kind of an editorial, but I'm going to be bringing you an interview that Carrie Sperling did with me now carry most of you know, wrote the long running blog six until me she retired that last year. She's doing a lot of great work with children with diabetes. This is the group that among many other things, puts on those great friends for life conferences, the big one in July every year, smaller regional conferences throughout the year. And they do a lot of really good work in terms of information, and community outreach. So Carrie is doing some of these interviews and I was so excited to be able to talk to her. You may have seen it, they put it out as a YouTube video and I will link that right up. You want to stop right here and go to the video instead of listening. It's the exact same interview except to get to see us and it made me realize I need to work on the lighting in my office. But the information I hope is good. We talked about what led me to write the world's worst diabetes mom a lot about you know, parenting Benny, my son diagnosed right before he turned to 13 plus years ago now, privacy issues Carrie has shared this in her own life. You know, how much do you share online? How much do you not? How do you decide that? And it was really a fun conversation. It's always a A little weird to be on the other side of the microphone.   Unknown Speaker  3:02 It's not   Stacey Simms  3:02 my comfort zone. But here we go. Anyway, here is the interview that Carrie Sparling did with me.   Kerri Sparling  3:09 I am here today to talk to Stacey Simms   Stacey Simms  3:12 about this, oh my goodness,   Kerri Sparling  3:14 I had to climb on my bookshelf to get it down because I accidentally put it on the shelf that I couldn't reach without a stool. So thank you for giving me morning exercise for that. I appreciate it. But um, I Okay, let me make this more formal. I am very appreciative that you've taken the time to talk to me, and then we're going to broadcast this to the children with diabetes community and then share it through our different channels. So thank you for making yourself available. I know this has been chaotic, getting them on the line.   Stacey Simms  3:38 This is what I get out of TV, when really we just need to stick to radio, but I really appreciate it Carrie. Thank you.   Kerri Sparling  3:43 My pleasure. And so I want to jump right in because I've already kept so much of your morning already. So just if you could for a minute just introduce yourself to the community that may not know you already so they can get a sense of who you are, and then we'll get into the book.   Stacey Simms  3:54 Oh, sure. So my name is Stacy. My son Ben. He was diagnosed more than 13 years ago, which is bananas, time just flies, but he was not yet two years old. He was diagnosed with type one when he was 23 months. I have an older daughter Her name is Leah. She is three years older than him over there four years apart in school and I say that cuz she's a freshman in college now and he's a freshman in high school. I started a blog about a month after Ben he was diagnosed at the time I was working as a morning radio show host I had been a TV anchor and reporter that's the I hate pictures. Because it's all the makeup and the hair and the you know, I'm looking at myself like my headphones are so big on this is not good. I distract myself. Um, but then I started the blog and then four years ago, I started a podcast and then last year I wrote the   Kerri Sparling  4:39 book. That's that is awesome. And so so you've been sharing a lot of your family's experience and your personal experience with centered around diabetes, but going right into Stacey Simms, the world's worst diabetes mom. So this title obviously feels a little tongue in cheek because you are clearly very involved, clearly clever and also on top of things that are going on in your kids. In your family's health, so why did you call it this?   Stacey Simms  5:03 The book title came about because I had actually been working on a parenting advice book about raising a child with type one for a couple of years. And it was really boring. And it was really like had been done before. There are so many great books, especially, you know, from a layperson perspective, there are so many great books by medical professionals that can really tell you how to better manage, and I didn't want to just say, here's our story, and here's what I think. And I was writing that book, but I wasn't, I wasn't jazzed by it. It was kind of just writing, you know, old blogs and my publisher and said, Oh, put your old blogs together. We'll just put those out. You know, that just didn't sound right. To me. No friends really resonates like old blogs like it. So I was in a Facebook group, having a discussion like I still do, I foolishly still go into Facebook groups because I want to help people and I get help to still and we had a disagreement and it got heated. I really I felt strongly that this was an okay way to manage and the person was so mean and said, you're gonna you're gonna kill your child you're you're terrible parent, you know really went there. And I just said, Well, I must be the world's worst diabetes Mom, you and I slammed the computer shut and I walked away and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is it not not even think about the book but this is who I am I want to talk about making mistakes. I want to talk about living with less fear. I want to talk about not always being a slave to your beats. Are you okay? Do you need a juice box?   Unknown Speaker  6:33 Sorry, and beeping, then one of those days, but everything is fine. Thank you for asking.   Stacey Simms  6:36 But I just wanted to, I realized in that moment that I did have something to say. And it wasn't just about the old blogs. And I went back I screenshot of the conversation because I thought well, maybe this guy is bananas. It's gonna come after me. But I also deleted it. Because we didn't need my anger out there either. It wasn't just Hey, I was ugly too. So I got past that and I thought let's talk about all the mistakes I've made because we Made a ton of mistakes. And it's not a question about being a bad parent or a good parent, sure, you're gonna make mistakes with your kids, whether they have diabetes or not. And let's use those examples of mistakes to talk about resiliency and confidence and, and I think my son is better off for all the mistakes I made.   Kerri Sparling  7:16 I hope that applies to parenting outside of the realm of diabetes, because I'm not a perfect mom myself. And so it's reassuring to hear that stumbling leads to success, even if it's a modified version of the success you thought you were going towards. So I really appreciate that. And I also like the fact that it's not like here's how to be perfect by Stacey Simms, because that really puts people on their heels like you can't take advice from someone that you have on a pedestal it's always a lot easier to have a peer to peer conversation and that's why I feel like your book reads through it very a resonated for me and I'm an adult the diabetes not raising a child with diabetes but reading your perspectives gave me a lot of insight on maybe conversations that my mom and I never had or my email just think the cross Can you see that when it comes across You know, you're supporting the note cuz he's just some weird emails. But I just have a couple notes. I just wanted to look through this. But when I was reading through the book, there's the story of the first night that you guys are home with, with Benny. And, and it hit me really hard because I was thinking about my own two kids. And like I said, they don't have diabetes, but I was putting myself in your position. And it's so easy to be the person with diabetes from my perspective, but it is very, very different to be the person who carries just as much, but it's like 10,000 feet away for so much of the experience. And so do you think that it's important to have those stories shared like stories like yours and stories from adults with type one, so that we can kind of create a, an amalgam story sort of thing, like, why is that important?   Stacey Simms  8:37 I think it's a great question, because it's it's so important to recognize that the two experiences run in tandem, but they are so separate, as well. Right? We're never really going to separate them. We can't pretend they're the same. So a person with diabetes is having one experience a parent of a child with diabetes is having a totally different experience, obviously tied to By diabetes, and I, you've already said, Oh, I think it's you know, it's worse to be the parent, you've implied that by something you said, which is fine. I mean, I almost every adult with type one I know, says all my mom, it was so much harder on her.   Kerri Sparling  9:10 We're not saying it to make you feel better. We're saying, we believe that fun. Yeah,   Stacey Simms  9:14 I understand. But I disagree, because I'm not beeping, and I can walk away from it. But at the same time, it's not a question of comparing, right. And I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I'm not saying that you're doing that. But I think it's really important that we see these experiences as equally important, but very different, but then tied together. So telling all of these stories. I'm hopeful that Benny, when he gets a little older, we'll look back and read it. And he knows what he knows the stories we actually shared that ahead of time. We talked about what I could put in the book, but I'm hoping that he'll see it and kind of think, Oh, well, that was not my experience, but I'm glad to know it.   Kerri Sparling  9:50 Well, of course and you were saying it's not it's it's not about comparing them. I think it's about making a cohesive story around them like my low felt like this, but it looked and felt to my mother like this and meshing those two stories together together gives us a broader experience touch point. And I think that's so important, especially for like a teenage kid who might pick up your book and read it. And when they're in that angsty, angry part of diabetes, and they might be so furious with their parents to get your perspective on that might help segue a good conversation with their own parents. That's why I don't think this book is just for parents of kids with diabetes at cross collateralize is the whole community you know? I don't know. I think that's accurate. I'm gonna toot your horn for you that way.   Stacey Simms  10:28 One thing I think it's really interesting to talk about is you mentioned like the not perfect parenting thing. And I think it's we're under pressure, regardless of diabetes is parents right? You can't win you really can't. But I also think it's funny when you look at a lot of parenting blogs and parenting writings. It's either I'm a perfect parent and you should aspire to look like this. It's perfect Instagram photos or whatever, you know, look like us do like us eat like us. Or you have the oh I don't know what I'm doing.   Unknown Speaker  10:54 I'm so crazy on motherhood is that you know, I'm a man I look at my and I really that doesn't speak to Neither,   Kerri Sparling  11:00 right we are middle lane.   Stacey Simms  11:02 We are smart, we are strong. We are sometimes a mess. We are sometimes perfect. And I really I'm not. I know that sound like I was making fun. You know what I mean? If these archetypes, especially women we get put into, right. I'm a hard driving success story or I'm so clumsy. I fell into my man, you know, I mean, I hate that. So I tried to really in this book, kind of encapsulate, you know who I am, but who I think a lot of other moms are too, right. competent, confident,   Kerri Sparling  11:29 but not having it all together. Now might be an important part to bring up the fact that I'm wearing normal clothes from the waist up, but sweat tears from the waist down. So like I think that sort of is the it's the template for that. They need you there we go. Wait, you you would actually skipped ahead to something I wanted to ask you about. Sorry. Should No no, that's fine. This is good, though. When you're using the questions, I know and I don't normally write my stuff down. But I'm organized today. Um, but yeah, we talked about when you first started sharing your stories, and Benny was home that first night That sort of stuff. And you used to write about Benny's personal experiences and yours. And as he's gotten older, and his experiences become more his, you've said that you've stepped away a little bit from telling his stories and have embraced. I can't describe it for you. But like, what, what's it like to decide to share x in the beginning, and what makes you transition to the y?   Stacey Simms  12:19 I think it's such an important conversation. It was interesting in the beginning, and I do wish that I'd given my kids just a little bit more privacy by changing their names, or giving them nicknames. The problem for me was I was already on the radio. And we had a show where it was mostly political news. But we did talk about our personal lives a little bit. So my listeners knew when I started at that station, I had a one year old daughter. And then when I was working at that station, I was pregnant and then I had a baby and here's Benny in the hospital, you know, it was a different experience than just blogging. So it didn't really occur to me at the time and social media. Certainly what it is now isn't wasn't then what it is now. It was a different experience. But when you have a toddler, you have a baby, I mean, even going back, I was Careful at the time not to overshare I but as he got older you realize, you know people are reading this people are looking at this. There were there were only some experiences that I felt comfortable sharing and it wasn't just the good stuff, right? We shared things that things went wrong. I thought that was important. But I'm I'm on the record. I sound like a broken record. You know, I don't share my Sunday one. See, I don't have that. I don't like you know, do not share photos of your child in distress. You know, no hospital pictures. I wish I had pictures of him in the hospital and he was diagnosed for me. Sure. But you know, we didn't have our phones with us. 24 seven at that point, especially didn't have cameras on them, which sounds so ancient.   Kerri Sparling  13:43 I mean, this is what it is right? Like when I was diagnosed with diabetes, I had to pee in a bucket to test it. So like things had to not a bucket. I mean, let's be realistic about this. But you know, things have progressed and with it the the conversation about what to share and not to share and so, I mean, you talked already about not sharing his anyone see? And I think personally, I am on the same page with you about that no one needs my personal data points because their mind in their personal, but that there's a broad spectrum of decision making processes around that sort of stuff. So what made you decide not to do that?   Stacey Simms  14:14 Well, I think I'll just put a caveat in there, I think, to not mindlessly share, right? Sometimes it makes sense if you're trying to talk through something or get advice or share a situation or, or say, hey, look at this difficult situation we worked through and now we're celebrating I mean, just mindlessly is the word I tried to use about it. But what changed was when he was about seven, I think I read something by Moore McCarthy, who is a mentor of mine, and she's longtime blogger, author, I mean, yeah, faculty, you know, I probably saw her speak there and got this information, but she really encouraged me and others to think about it. And once I stopped to think about it, I realized there's no reason for my seven year olds health information to be on the internet. I'm not posting my weight and my cholesterol. And you know, my blood pressure. It's the same thing. We don't see it that way, right? But it really is. And that once I thought about it, it changed everything for me and I started sharing more, you know, great endo visit no changes, everything's on track or great endo visit. We had a whole conversation about changes we have to make sure sometimes like bad, you know, bad can be good when you get the information. Yeah, I love the finger quotes.   Kerri Sparling  15:27 But I feel like that's an important part of it too, because it's not truly bad or truly good. There's a right   Stacey Simms  15:32 dial up stations get better when you get away from the numbers. I agree. You know, you can you can have more in depth about how you're feeling and what advice you're looking for. And that sort of thing. So I've shared with friends when I've said old I'm upset about this, or can you help me with that? That's different.   Kerri Sparling  15:46 Yeah, no, of course because that's your actual personal life but broadcasting it to the broader internet as a different person retired. As a kid who grew up with Type One Diabetes, that's my perspective. And yours is parenting a kid who's growing up with Type One Diabetes. How How do you feel about I mean, you see a lot of memes from parents about parenting in general where they have like the curlers, half in their hair, and the bathrobe and the coffee cup dangling off of one arm, and they're like, parenting is so exhausting. And that feels universally haha. But when I see that same sort of meme applied to diabetes, like, this is what a parent of a kid with diabetes looks like. And they just look bedraggled and rotten and exhausted and as an adult with type one that applies a guilt to my experience that I didn't see coming. And so I'm just curious what you think about things that paint diabetes in a light that maybe they don't realize is shining directly on their kid. When parents tell those sorts of stories? Yeah, it is a great question because the reality is, maybe you didn't sleep that great last night, right? Maybe you were up three times treating a low. But are you talking about me because that was my nightlight?   Stacey Simms  16:49 Well, I do have Do you have a baby can still because there was a signal in my house. No, I   Unknown Speaker  16:52 do.   Stacey Simms  16:55 It No, I'm talking about the parent, right. So if a parent has to do that, and then wants to go on from But the next day and start talking about how hard it was. I can understand that. But I do think and my favorite meme about this and I don't think it started as a diabetes parenting meme. I think it's just a parenting meme. But it's like, you know, an 87 year old woman, and that it says like, well, parenting is hard. You know, my I'm celebrating my 23rd birthday tomorrow. Money. But I do think that you've hit it on the head, that's going to be my would share about diabetes. I think it's difficult to know where to draw that line. And we don't, we don't think because what we're doing not to get all psychological. But in doing some research for a recent podcast I was doing I found a great article about this and I can send you the link but when we're sharing things like that we're looking for likes, right because our brain As humans, we need support. We're looking for community. We actually like to get the good Brain Stuff going the dopamine or whatever, when you get the right weights real and physical and social hosting, something like that, you know, is going to bring in more of that. And it's not made up. It's not fake. Oh, yeah.   Kerri Sparling  18:09 Feeling it all   Stacey Simms  18:10 really happens. But there are better ways of doing it. I think and as you were alluding to, if we, as parents of kids with type one, don't listen to adults with type one, we miss out on this kind of conversation, because no seven or eight year old is going to say, you know, it kind of hurt my feelings or I, I really processed some guilt when you posted that, right? They're not gonna say that they may not even realize it, but we need to be mindful of that kind of stuff. And I think it's fine to have fun and you know, maybe share that privately. But um, you know, I I'm really try hard not to make diabetes, the focus of everything and not show that guilt because that's just parenting anyway.   Unknown Speaker  18:48 Right? It's just an added thing.   Stacey Simms  18:50 It is just an added thing. It's like not to get too far off topic, but when people are freaking out about sending their kids to sleep overs, sure, right, because something might happen when I was in second grade Jennifer Look, it's like At my house, we had a babysitter. We didn't eat that my parents and she put her leg on my bed. It was the 70s. It was like some metal crazy trundle bed. She cut her leg bad enough that we had to go to the ER and get stitches.   Unknown Speaker  19:10 Oh, wow. How do you prepare for that? I don't think you do.   Stacey Simms  19:15 Things happen on sleep overs. emergencies happen. Parents who say I'm gonna have sleep over have to be prepared for weirdness. And to me diabetes falls under that category. But that's a decision you have to make. And I think it's the same thing with that kind of a mean, you kind of have to make the decision of, there's a difference between, everything's fine, everything's fine. Everything's fine, which I've been guilty of for a long time. It's fine. It's fine. I'm not gonna worry about it. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I don't need any help. I'm fine. And there's a difference between that and what was me everything's terrible. Like, like sucks and you know, oh, my God, diabetes is the worst. You gotta you gotta find that medium and you've got to, at least to your children, I think it's important to fake it, but be careful about stuff like I might.   Kerri Sparling  19:57 I like what you said earlier because I read a lot about my fulness and being mindful and making sure that you're mindful, but the fact that you've cited mindlessness as a potential alternative to that, like, don't be mindless, don't share mindlessly consider the you know, the course of your actions that you're taking and how it might influence your kid. That is a huge takeaway already. For me from this conversation. It doesn't apply just to parenting diabetes, I think it applies to the whole mess being Don't be mindless about the things that you're sharing. I think that's a really, really good tip.   Stacey Simms  20:26 It's funny because I stink at being mind. Right? You're like, Oh, no, take your time when you eat and drink your tea and fever and, you know, take them home. I really don't think I can do that. But I can take an extra 10 seconds and think do I want to post this photo?   Kerri Sparling  20:39 Of course, not. In a mindfulness exercise once I was asked to spend one minute eating one m&m, and it was really strange experience and I'm sure it was really effective, but for me, it made me feel very stressed out. We can get into that later, but because we've talked a lot about parenting, and I'm sorry to be going back to my notes here. You You talked about it experience where you and your family are you at least and Benny and Leah met Nick Jonas, and how this was truly more of a thing for Leah, your daughter than it was for your son who is the one who has diabetes. And there's something that you wrote that really stuck with me because I feel like parenting a kid with diabetes, that parent is acknowledged a lot, which is fantastic. The child with diabetes is acknowledged quite a bit because they become the focal point of that narrative. But the siblings of kids with diabetes end up on this weird purgatory peripheral area, and they're not often acknowledged. And you wrote that at the end of meeting with Nick Jonas, that you had said the diabetes was in our lives. But she Leah knew we wouldn't let it take over she knew she wasn't going to be left behind and reading that now gives me goosebumps for reading it then also did too because it acknowledges a group of people that need just as much support as I do as a kid, as you do as a parent. And when I think about children with diabetes in the organization, the programming really speaks to that as well. It's not just for parents, it's not just for adults with type one is for the siblings. It really embraces the whole family. So because your wrote that awesome line. Could you say a little bit more about supporting a sibling   Stacey Simms  22:04 and, and the children's diabetes? I mean that friends for life Leah has come. And Mr. Summer schedules are always crazy. So it's rare that either one of my kids can come and like I still go, but I had a I had a blast, and she didn't really think she would. She kind of came as a favor to me.   Kerri Sparling  22:21 But she was when she was I   Stacey Simms  22:23 think she was 14 or 13. She was a teen. So she was in the teen programming. And you know, Benny was still too young to be in that programming. So they were separate. Yep. And she knew she was gonna get to go to a Disney park, which was amazing, you know, when state of fancy hotel with me and it was great. And she I don't think I saw her much. You know, she thought, Well, I'm not gonna do this. You know, we'll see how it goes. And it was wonderful, but it's really hard. You know, that's one of the few programs that there is for siblings. When when he was diagnosed, we got this reminder really off the bat and it did help us set the tone he was in high But on the Saturday, and on Sunday, I had an event that I had planned. And I do talk about this in the book. But it was an ice skating event uptown. So uptown from my house is about 45 minutes. Okay. And I was the only link between these two groups. It was a group from near my house and a group from your my work. Well, the skating rink was my work. They sponsored the rink. I didn't. I was working at a radio station that sponsored the rig. And I knew that somebody could take care of it, but it was going to be difficult. And Leah reminded me like we're still gonna go ice skating, right. We're still gonna go ice skating because I live in the south. Ice skating is exotic. No, it really is. I grew up in New York. I'm like, oh, there's never been she likes frozen ice that you walk on. Amazing, right? Magic. So I said to my husband, I'm like, We're going he's like heck yeah, go take her and he stayed the hospital and that was the day after my not your two year old was diagnosed and I'm thinking is this the right decision? Is this this is a terrible This is the world's worst diabetes mom because here I am leaving the hospital. But as soon as I I got outside I knew was the right thing. And that was the day that we said we can't let this take over our lives. So you have to be careful. Like, I don't I don't I say this not to judge but just again with that mindlessness and that mindfulness or you know, if you signs in your house that are like in this house, we're blood sugar fighting, you know, ketone, chicken, whatever it is, look, the science we will have in their kitchen. Nobody, I mean, if they're all diabetes related, of course, yeah. You know, have to be kind of careful unless you also have ice skating, hockey playing, you know, unless you want to have a litany of everything your family does. You know, I'm mindful of like, how many t shirts do I actually wear that say diabetes stuff on them all the time. And making sure like, I have stuff from my daughter's programming, and frankly, from Benny's programming that's not diabetes related. It's that kind of little thing I think that siblings really pick up on, like, if you name your dog or your cat or your goldfish after diabetes stuff, you know, it's a family pad. I mean, if it's a diabetes alert doc that might be different. I just think these are things that as simple We kind of forget, you know, they're always they're always watching and they're tallying. And you have to be honest with them that diabetes gets more attention. But with Leah, just having the conversation over and over again really helped. I mean, when she was 15, she and I had a great conversation about it. She said, I was really upset about it. And now I get it. Oh, it was amazing. I mean, he probably is back to being upset about it now.   Kerri Sparling  25:22 But it was great. You guys can talk about it is really nice, because a lot of times that animosity isn't voiced, and nobody has areas to sort of air their concerns. And so it's good that you give her space and like we mentioned in friends for life, people have that space to get that stuff out there. Oh, yeah.   Stacey Simms  25:35 I'm the over communicating Mom, you're like enough.   Unknown Speaker  25:39 Talking to me.   Kerri Sparling  25:42 We've talked about community, we've talked about sharing, we've talked about Facebook and the pluses and minuses of that sort of stuff. And it and it led me to the story that you had written about Benny losing his insulin pump. And then after that, you would, which I think is an amazing discussion about the cost of supplies, and how even small Children are mindful of the cost of things. And we'll get back to that in a second. But after that story you had mentioned, places to find support for when you have gaps like that, or you have issues like that. And I would love some perspective from you on as a parent whittling down this massive diabetes online community that we have access to, to a manageable size that kind of caters to what people might be looking for, like, advice for someone who's just jumping in and saying, there's so much how do I find what's best suited for me?   Stacey Simms  26:26 Yeah, absolutely. I think the best thing to do is if you're already online where where do you like to be? Right? Do you like Twitter? Do you like Facebook? You like Instagram, Pinterest? You got to find your house, like where do you like to live? And then once you're there, find your people. And let's have a Facebook cuz that's probably the biggest for parents. I know Instagram is a lot bigger than the last couple of years. But Facebook groups are still really really active for parents. And my advice there is be careful again, not to turn your Facebook into diabetes book which is what happened to me. I am in I am in 50 Five Facebook groups about diabetes. Now granted, I joined Facebook in 2008. So I had around for a while.   Kerri Sparling  27:07 Well, I'm just it was the look on your face. It wasn't like I'm so proud to be in 55 horrified to be in 55 it was a real mashup of the both   Stacey Simms  27:15 emotions. And that's exactly how I feel. So, because I'm like, I want to be here. And I like the vibe of this group. I like the information in this group. And I like to put my podcast in this group. But what I did was I muted the majority of this groups and that has been phenomenal. If you're not familiar as you're watching or listening. It's very easy to do, you can just mute the group. I think you unfollow the group might be the technical term, but you don't leave the group. So that way, when you want to dip into those waters, it's up your time. And my Facebook feed went back to being my real life, which is my friends, the stuff does the dumb things. I follow in a little bit of diabetes, and then I can jump back in whenever I want to. And Facebook Of course will find you you know if there's something interesting, put it right in your face, on Twitter if you're there, which is Just a crazy place to be the best, just all the politics and mess but DSM a is still your diabetes, social media advocacy is still the best hashtag on Twitter. They still do the Wednesday night chats. Those are wonderful. Instagram I'm struggling with just a little bit only because I like the realness of the stories and things that people I know that out. But I've been trying to follow more people and I'm not knocking anybody, you're all wonderful and beautiful. But I have talked to two influencer type people and I complimented one of them. That was such a beautiful shot in your hair looks so good. And you know, she said, Stacy, I have a hair person and a photographer.   Unknown Speaker  28:40 Diabetes person. What   Stacey Simms  28:43 if I had if I had a hair person and photographer I could change the world. I do wear pants. I'd be wearing pants. I would have better headphones because wearing Benny's beats I thought these would be smaller. You have cute little earbuds I don't know I haven't no here but I studio cans that are like this big I thought would be even more Your cancer headphones in the biz. But I just, you know, I can't do the influencer thing. So you but you as you listen, you might love that that might be your thing, go for it. But I think you have to find where you live where you where you feel comfortable, where's your vibe, and then you'll find your people but don't let it get overwhelming. And if you find somebody that wants to call you the world's worth diabetes. You walk away walk away unless you have a book. But I mean, really, it's not worth the argument. If someone tells me I'm wrong, I'm not going to change their life probably. Maybe I can help. I've got a good discussion going in my local group right now about finding babysitters. There are people locally I run a face for parents in the Charlotte area. Okay, started a few years back and it's been amazing. And there's a discussion right now people like I will never be able to leave my children alone. Yes, you will. And here's how. And so we're trying to help each other kind of get past that right. So   Kerri Sparling  29:59 that's See, I feel like the internet is fantastic. And it's done such a great job of connecting people who don't live anywhere near one another. But when it comes right down to human connection that people really crave in those moments of need, that hyper local stuff is huge. You can recommend a babysitter to me, but they're of no use to me in Rhode Island. But for the people who live down the street from you, they can go and call that person and they can actually hire them out. And that's, that says a lot to about the diabetes community how willing people are to give those really harder and resources and to share it with their,   Stacey Simms  30:28 with their people. That's beautiful. It is absolutely amazing. And you think I mean, I know this is a CWT interview, but the first thing that comes to my mind is going to that conference or any of the conferences that they put on. I don't even worry about what I'm packing my pack everything Ben he needs but you know if he's anything, somebody's got it, and they'll have you a 2am you know, it's just an amazing community. And I don't know, I think especially locally, knowing that we might see each other at the grocery store. Like that Facebook group is probably one of the nicest groups. I'm in   Unknown Speaker  30:59 You'll have to own what they say, right? Because they may see you over avocados.   Stacey Simms  31:02 I know who you are, right?   Kerri Sparling  31:06 We've run through the questions that I had structured for the book and my preparation. But is there anything else that you feel like it would be really pertinent to share with the specifically the CW, the audience,   Stacey Simms  31:14 one of the things I've learned just doing the podcast and now on this book tour that I've been on this year, it's just fascinating as the technology gets better and better, and you know, Benny's on the newest software from tandem, and, you know, there's all sorts of great stuff coming out. It's interesting how the change from 13 years ago seems to be almost more fearful. And it's not that it's not so much that people are afraid to let their kids do things. It's that they're afraid to let their kids get out of range. I think I'm seeing that a little bit among adults as well. Now my adult view is skewed to a lot of the influencers and people that you know, sometimes I see in person, but there's this that's another thing with the the world's worst is, you know, talking about staying in range was never part of my repertoire was like go play football, and we'll figure out how to put diabetes in the picture. I'm learning that a lot of people have. We have amazing technology. It's changed so much just in the last few years. And we need to encourage each other to use that technology to live fuller lives, rather than use the technology to post graphs. And it's just remarkable to even say that to a parent who was diagnosed, compared who was diagnosed, I mean, I've gotta watch language. No, I   Kerri Sparling  32:23 will go back to that in a second. You're right. You are right. My mommy got me it was a wee thing. Just, it was a different version of wheat. So that's a very fair statement.   Stacey Simms  32:31 I think with a 15 year old to I'm really trying to change my language over it's hard   Kerri Sparling  32:35 so of him. So I mean, his health is is your mental well being right. I mean, there's, there's no separation there. It's sorry to go on a tangent.   Stacey Simms  32:43 Well, this is a great discussion. This could be for another time too. And we'll talk more in person, but I think it's his diabetes. And I'm it's the family is affected, but it's his. So that's what I mean. And I completely lost Richard.   Kerri Sparling  32:56 Oh, wait. I was waiting to with that. I started ranges range, using technology to your benefit. I sorry,   Stacey Simms  33:06 I got all I get crazy bad language right now it's it's really hard for me to change over. But I just feel like we're finding that this the state of the art. I mean, I know what I'm saying in my community, we have a pilot program where your child is diagnosed, and they give you a dexcom in hospital when you go home. So it sounds great. But the problem is that there unfortunately, I don't know there's enough education and I'm not slamming the CDs and dexcom here has nothing to do with that. It's just the diabetes is hard. And so see everything from the beginning. Maybe you get used to that, but then the dexcom comes off and they don't wanna go to school, or they don't want to go to the waterpark, or they don't want to go on that that field trip or that overnight because they've never been without the depth causeway. And we're more and more and more of that, where I would be like, Oh, I hope your inset still on, you know, an hour but you learn resiliency, you learn stuff like that. Yes, the worst. And that's the story. When he was three, we were at a waterpark. That's in here. Instead came off and his blood sugar went really high because he was terrified of shots in sets at the time. And I thought, you know what this is going to be an hour to he's going to be fine. The long term, my indices stuff like this is okay, as long as we don't do it a lot. And maybe the running around will bring him down. It didn't, you know, so he got with Ari was 400 we change this instead, we got him home, he was fine. No ketones, blah, blah. But in my local group, someone had posted my kids dexcom came off, I'm not sending her the waterpark. I'm like, come on. Yeah, I got it. Right, we got to use this stuff to live better not let it restrict us long way of getting to that point. And that's really where I think I am right now. Because, you know, the technology is fantastic, but your stuffs gonna fall off. Things are going to fail. You know,   Kerri Sparling  34:44 you know, you have to continue on several life after diagnosis thing.   Stacey Simms  34:50 So it's been a long time. Permit this year, I can't believe it. Oh, and then you get to write about driving with diabetes, which is a Book unto itself, start, the book pretty much stops in sixth or seventh grade. So I'm not going to say that I'm an expert at high school yet, because I've only had one kid go through and she didn't have diabetes. So   Kerri Sparling  35:12 Nick Jonas at one time, so there is that there is that kind of coasting through. But um, but and so you have just been so generous with your time and your perspectives, I really, really appreciate it. And if you could just do me one solid real quick and let people know where they can find you online and where they'd be able to pick up a copy of your book. And obviously, we'll be including links to that, you know, and all the notes that are around this video, but hearing it from you is great.   Stacey Simms  35:34 Oh, thank you so much. I think the best place to go is the podcast website, which is diabetes dash connections.com. And then from there, it'll link to every place else the book, the podcast, the blog, blah, blah, blah. And   Kerri Sparling  35:45 so what's the actual URL for that   Stacey Simms  35:48 diabetes dash connections. com. Perfect. And I would love to do a book giveaway.   Kerri Sparling  35:55 Oh, we would love to have a book giveaway so   Stacey Simms  35:57 I can give away. Let's do this. Let's do a paperback And let's do an audio book. Because the audio book was really fun and interesting to do. If you ever do an audio book, it's quite the experience, like reading a dramatic play. It was very strange, very strange, totally different experience than writing it. But we can do a paperback giveaway. And then the audio book, that would be my pleasure, thank you.   Kerri Sparling  36:18 That would be amazing. And I will put a link to the giveaway page in this video and on the web page. But Stacey, thank you so much for your time for your perspectives for what you've given to the diabetes community and just being my friend, I appreciate that.   Stacey Simms  36:30 Thank you for giving me an excuse to put lipstick on today. The giveaway is open until March 20. I will link up all of the information you need. It is at children with diabetes at their giveaway page. You have to go there you can't do it on social media. We're giving away a copy of the book in paperback and an audio book as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing everybody from friends for life and children with diabetes at their conference coming up at the end of this month in Indianapolis. I'm hoping the travel plans you know stay the way we hope we are watching The virus situation I'm really not sure what's going to happen with travel. But Fingers crossed right now that we are able to do this. And I really appreciate partnering with them on this giveaway and being selected for one of their storyteller interviews. So it's really fun. Okay, our next episode next week, we should be back to normal around here minimum normal being a relative term with me. But our next episode is going to be focusing on Lilly, Eli Lilly announced almost two years ago now that they the makers of human log are getting into the pump and pen business. So we will talk to them about how they're progressing on this connected system. It's a smart system and they are partnering recently announced with dex calm, so we will be talking to them about the progress they've made and what it means for the industry. That will be next Tuesday. Okay, I'm Stacey Simms. Until then, be kind to yourself.   Diabetes connections is a production of Stacey Sims media. Benny  38:02 All Rights Reserved all wrongs avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.aid by https://otter.ai  

This weeks guest is Matt Scoletti. Matt was a basketball player in high school, captain of the team, fun and outgoing kid. Then, in college, he got exposed to alcohol and really enjoyed it. The problem was, he couldn’t stop drinking. Matt drank heavily for 10 years of his life from age 18-27. Finally, he had enough. Matt was so disgusted with who he had become that he felt he had to change his life! He went from being addicted to alcohol, to being addicted to healthy living, working out, and eating right! Since giving up alcohol, he has been on American Ninja Warrior, run 3 marathons, is a 2-Time World Record Holder, won the Physique Athlete Of the Year, been in Flex Magazine, and done countless obstacle course races and endurance races including biking 250 miles in 24 hours in Australia last year! Matt is now a professional speaker and love using his story to inspire people to GO FOR IT in life and create urgency in your life to reach your potential!Links: www.MattScoletti IG/TikTok/FB - @MattScoletti YouTube: Matt ScolettiWelcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast. Each week we expose the faulty foundational mindsets of the past and rebuild the newer, stronger foundation essential in creating your meaningful legacy. We've got a lot of work to do. So let's get started.As much as you like this podcast, I'm certain that you're going to love the book that I just released on Amazon if you will, your legacy, the nine pillars to build a meaningful legacy. I wrote this to share with you the experiences that I had while I was identifying my identity, how I began to create my meaningful legacy and how you can create yours. You're going to find this book on Kindle, Amazon and their website Sam Knickerbocker. comWelcome back to fuel your legacy. Today we have an incredible guest called Matt Scoletti. And I first reached out to him or who reached out to but I saw him on Instagram. I love this story. Luckily, he's been able to accomplish without that man, this would be something Somebody who can share a passion share a dream about what it's like to make some transformations in his life. And his story is one of somebody hitting rock bottom and then turning it around. He was an alcoholic for a decade. What I love about that phrase is he was an alcoholic for a decade's so many people they think once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. I don't believe that. But after hitting rock bottom in 2011, he completed some crazy crazy fitness feats. He ran multiple marathons been on the 24-hour bike races obstacle courses, set to world records, is now a motivational speaker who travels his country speaking in schools, businesses, nonprofits, to inspire audiences to push past their limiting beliefs, and attack your potential. I know he's going to get into this because I'm going to ask him but he also was on American Ninja Warrior. And that is cool. I mean, some people you see it I watched that show. I think it's a fascinating show. But do you think man I'm never meeting That person? So why does matter, right? But the cool thing is with social media now, if you see somebody in the public eye that you want to meet, just use Instagram and then start a conversation and most of them are just like Matt are super down to earth, super willing to chat and even willing to add value where they can. So with that, Nat super excited for you to be here, be on the show and to be able to share your nuggets of transformation with us and what it's been like building your legacy. Go ahead and introduce yourself. Tell us your backstory, your dark points in your life and how you came to the light.Sure, and thanks for having me on sam. I appreciate it. I'm excited. So yeah, I'll give you a little background first. So growing up, I'm from just outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Go Steelers. I'm a diehard Steeler fan. Hopefully, you don't hate the Steelers and we didn't talk about that yet. No, I don't hate them. Okay, good.I have a team? Okay.Maybe I can make you a Steeler fan and annexed by the end of the podcast. I don't know like that.My business coach is a Patriots fan. He's got aconvention kind of says in multiple national championships.The Patriots, that's the one team. All right, we got to move on because I don't want to start talking about Yeah, Igrew up just outside of Pittsburgh, and had a great childhood. I mean, my parents were awesome. I have an older brother two years older than me. I was so blessed because, in my opinion, high school was awesome. I mean, I worked my butt off. I got really good grades. I was captain of the basketball team and looking back at high school, maybe I didn't realize it at the time, but basically, everything was going really good for me. I mean, I was healthy, somewhat athletic, had great friends, close family and had it all. And then I went to transition into college. I went down to Richmond University of Richmond down in Virginia, and for the first time really in my life, I was exposed to what the partying scene College was like, and I won't forget my first time going out freshman year, my parents had just driven away and I thought, you know, freedom, I get to do whatever I want now. And the first thing I did was drink two, three beers with friends. I never really drank before. So I started having this feeling of being drunk, which was new to me. And I noticed that I was even more outgoing. I was louder, I started to not care and be carefree, doing whatever I wanted to do. And I thought it was a cool feeling. And from that point on for the next four years of my college career, that drinking instead of becoming a fun thing to do with friends, became something that I had to do in order to be social and I didn't realize that really until senior year that I basically got to the point where I could not have in my head now. This is the story I was telling myself. I cannot be fun without being drunk. And that's a scary six-story that I was telling myself. And I don't think I knew at that point how serious this problem was becoming so senior year, basically, I was just happy to graduate because it got to the point of drinking four or five, six nights a week, if not more, even sometimes during the day, and it got out of control. Now, at that point, I told myself, this is just college everybody does is in college. I'll get out of it once I get into the real world. What I didn't realize was I couldn't get out of it. I had this poor mindset and bad habits. And for six years out of college, my drinking did not get any better. I told myself the same story of if I'm not drinking, I'm not fine. And it hit it eventually hit the ultimate low in 2011. So to give you a little story, what happened in the summer of 2011, I started journaling about how I felt in the morning waking up with a hangover. And I don't even know the reason why I started journaling. But it turned out to be a really good thing. So I wake up in the morning on typically Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday morning, come over. And I would write these raw feelings on how bad my head hurts and how I didn't want to do anything and how I felt like a loser. And I just wanted to lay on the couch all day. And it was, it was this pattern that began to happen. So October of 2011. It's a day after a Halloween party. I wake up on the floor of my living room which is not abnormal. By the way, it's embarrassing to say, but I woke up on my floor quite often. And for the first time, I open up my journal that I had been writing in for about five months, straight beforehand. And I started reading the journal entries. So I saw my handwriting, the pattern that my life had become and for fun Months span when I journaled those journal entries would have been the same had they gone back 10 years because I was doing the same thing I was drinking to try to make myself feel better. And it was turning into this life that had no purpose. So I had no goals, I had no drive, I had no ambition. I didn't know what I wanted to be, I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I use this constant drinking to just kind of get me to the next day. So that morning, when I read all those journal entries, I'm crying my eyes out, but in a good way, because I realized I was the one that put myself in this situation, which was empowering because that meant that I'm the one that can change it. And from that day, in October 2011, I promised myself that I wouldn't let alcohol ruin my life anymore. And it was to the point where I looked myself in the face that morning in the mirror and I was embarrassed that who was looking back for the first time I was, I didn't even want to look at myself in the mirror because I know how empty I was inside. So the first thing I tried to do what I call it, I came up with a keystone habit that I wanted to change, which is getting alcohol out of my life. That was the Keystone habit. What I didn't realize were all the different things that would happen. Once I focused on that one Keystone habit of getting off a lot of my life. And to give you the snapshot of what happened was, first I got alcohol out of my life. Secondly, I started going to bed earlier because I wasn't drinking and staying up late, which meant I started getting up earlier in the morning, which meant I started working out. In the morning before I even went to work. I started eating healthier. And my whole world started changing because of this one Keystone habit that I decided to get out of my life which was alcohol. The first let me just tell you a funny story. The first funny thing that happened, we'll talk about American Ninja Warrior if you want to talk about that. But the first cool thing that happened was Shawn getting healthier and this is going on for about six months or a year at this point, I'm feeling good, my body's changing. I lost like 40 pounds, looking much more muscular and I started shooting videos for my Facebook page. And I had a, I was I had the camera stacked on a bunch of books facing me using resistance bands and I was trying to show my audience, the proper way to do a bicep curl using resistance bands. My foot slips off of the resistance band, the band comes up, hits me right inside of the face. And I catch this all on video. So I have a massive red mark across the side of my face. I can't shoot any more videos that day because I look like an idiot. And what happened was I uploaded the video anyways to Facebook even though it was silly. People started laughing somebody said you should send this into America's Funniest Home Videos. I thought I don't even know it was still playing but I figured I would send it in I don't they call me like to months later and say, Hey, Matt, this is, I think your name was Sasha from America's Funniest Home Videos, we just saw your video, we loved it, we want to fly you and a friend out to Los Angeles for the taping of our show. So it was one of it was weird because it's kind of like a negative thing you slap yourself in the face with a resistance band, but it turned out giving me a free trip to LA with my brother and some prize money. So it was like in my thinking it was like the good Lord's way of saying you're on the right path things are finally starting to happen that is good for you. So continue on this path. And my drive my driver has been I was telling you about when I look myself in the face and that was embarrassed October 2011. That person that I can still picture of my head drives me every day because I want to be the opposite of him. He was somebody that would quit. He was somebody that wouldn't get out of his comfort zone and My Drive is to be the opposite of who that person is. And it's worked. I mean, I've gone on and had a lot of fun fitness things happen in my life that will probably get into but that's kind of the backstory I don't know if I went into too much detail or not, but there you go,No, no, I love it. I'm gonna pull some of the things out here because I think it's important to recognize and highlight the key transformational moments in somebody's journey and my belief and what I've seen over interviewing, now hundreds of people and time and time again in my own life and other people's life observing success listening to books, is once you find a key principle, kind of like you said, a keystone habit right once you find these things, that whatever that is, the principle behind it is applicable everywhere. And that's what's so important is for him it was alcohol and it led to X amount of things maybe for you, the Keystone habits not alcohol, but it's TV. If you're going to turn your TV off, maybe whatever your Keystone habit is, everybody has a different Keystone habit. But if you are all to find out what is happening every night or almost every night for you to feel XYZ, right, because the feeling is what we're chasing. And then you change that one thing if you started going to bed four hours earlier, I will nearly guarantee you eventually, you're going to start waking up earlier. Yeah, you start waking up earlier, you're going to find something to do. When you're up earlier, whether that's reading more good books, studying whatever for him. It was working out and I think most people that I've met with and interviewed and talked to, that's kind of how it starts, they start exercising more. And the funny thing is when you start exercising more, the natural reaction to exercising more whether it's planned or unplanned, and I've talked to people who intentionally Try not to have this happen, but it just doesn't work. You start eating healthier, you start being more conscious about what's going your body Regardless of it's not even like you're trying, it's just like your mind your endorphins. Everything happens to whereas your body starts getting healthier, it starts wanting healthier things. And without even realizing it, you change what you're intaking, because your body starts asking and responding to different stimulants so that those Keystone habits, I'd invite you, whoever's listening, what are your Keystone habits? What are you doing for the last two to three hours before you go to bed, and if you altered those or remove some of that stuff, you just need to straight-up remove. But if you altered it, what would happen the next day? Yeah, and if you just do it one day, you won't recognize it. But if you do it consistently for a week, a month, you remove that you're going to find some major transformation in your life. The other thing that I love about this story is journaling. And if you listen to my podcast before, you know like me, journaling is my favorite form of meditation. It's something that I have committed to having journal entry for every day of the year, this year and moving forward, I had that for a long time, my life, I lost it after the birth of my first son. And I'm committed to it because it's just it changes my life and helps me process through so much through journaling, I think and I don't know if you've thought about this ever, but I would love to read that book. Right? The cool thing about experiences because we were talking a little bit before this about like, how have you written all these books? Or what books are you writing, Sam? These are the types of things that I'm publishing things about my life. I'm publishing stuff that for X amount of time I've spent already writing in you have a book written the amount of transformation of people who could read that identify with those feelings, and read it compound over and over and over and kind of highlight that the mindset shifts, and then the, the transition, the aha moment of Wow, this is my life. Everybody can go through that. If that was a book, I don't care if it's 50 pages long hundred pages long, whatever. And to then hear where you're at now, that's a truly inspirational book that I think could hit the New York Times bestseller, right? Because it's a story of something that millions of people in America can relate with.I hear you and you know what? I don't even know. I don't know if you notice, Sam. So I'm excited to bring it up. I actually, and I was going to get into this too. I wrote a book about exactly what we're talking about.I didn't know that. ButI know I didn't. I didn't know if you didn't know, I was kind of excited to drop that bomb on you. Soit's called, it's called the first 15. And the reason it's called the first 15 is and you alluded to it perfectly. I talked about owning the first 15 minutes of your day and how that can propel you through the rest of the day, the rest of the month, the rest of the year, the rest of your life. So it's all things that I strongly believe in, which is a morning routine. And just like you said, Sam, I think that's so cool about a lot of people, in my opinion, have amazing stories. And I would ask your audience and anybody who's listening, don't dim your light on your story, because I've talked to so many people I'm sure you to have to Sam. And they say, they tell you their story. And they say, well, it's not that big of a deal. Is that big of a deal? Like there are some incredible stories out there. And I challenge and ask any anybody listening to this, don't dim your light on your story, you probably have a really good story and if you want to tell it, tell it and self publish it and put it out there to the world because it's probably more awesome and you give yourself credit forthat. So even if you think you're telling your story is terrible. If your story, whatever it is, your story could change one person's life of your story could help one person find love could help one person not kill themselves. If your story could have one person better their life, find the right person, whatever it is. You could impact one person, would it be worth sharing your story? And that's the question I asked myself. And it just is like, it's worth sharing because if I can help one person, it's worth sharing if I can help million, I'm thrilled. Right? But if I can help one, that's important. So that's one thing the other. I want to bring up one more thing that he said before we dive into some more, asking more questions about the story. But have you ever and I'm asking anybody,  your audience, right. But you so many people think they can't be someone without substance or without something happening, right? Their story is not good unless they have a tragedy, right? There are so many things where we think we can't be somebody we're no fun unless given a certain set of circumstances unless we're put in a certain situation. We can't be fun. It's interesting. I spent eight. I was on an eight-day cruise with some friends A while back and they were all drunk all the time, right? And that's fine. Like I know most of them and they don't drink regularly. So it's not like a bad thing. But, interestingly, that's how they choose to unwind. And their exam, are you going to try this or you like, don't you want some I'm like, I don't need that. to enjoy myself. I don't need that to relax. I don't like everything that you're saying you're doing this for, for me is not I do that. Without it. Right. So it comes down to and you nailed it on the head. It's a limiting belief that you need something out. So you need something outside of yourself, to be who you want to be. You can be who you want to be right now, deciding to be that person. And if you're questioning that, please reach out to Matt, reach out to me reach out to somebody who can coach you through that mentality shift. Because the unfortunate thing is, people always ask, Well, why do I need a coach? Why do I need to pay somebody to help me? The reason is, it's an old saying, I believe Albert Einstein, but the same mind that created the problem, I can't solve it. Right? All the inconsistency is in your thought processes, and I still pay for a coach. Because I'm still learning and growing, right? And I as much as I think I progressed. So I'm so off based on so much stuff that I talked to my coach and like, Well, why do you think that Sam Why do you think that right? It's a natural process, we always are going to be naturally limiting ourselves and so we need somebody to help us break out of those limiting beliefsfor others there too because I have a coach for the business side of it. And also since I do a lot of speaking I have a speech coach. So I'm with you, I consider myself a half-decent speaker, but I'm never going to be perfect and that's one of my favorite parts of speaking or business or anything. You could always keep learning and growing and getting better. So I'm with you 100% on that. Yeah,absolutely. So I mean, without giving away too much, right? I'm not here to like have you share your whole book with us. But as far as morning routines we, everybody hears they're important. I mean, there's going to be tons of people listen to this. And they're going to say, Oh, yeah, I know, I should have a morning routine, but I don't. What is it, that you found help you get like, really stick to your morning routine?You know, I think I think to see the success of the morning routine and the first I mean, you got to be a little bit patient, right? Like you need to give it at least a month or two probably to feel the full effects. But what I noticed in the main thing I was focusing on, as you said it was working out. And what I noticed was, not only was I looking better physically but my energy throughout the day completely shifted. And I went from, as you know, drinking until, let's say, 11 or midnight, waking up Just enough time to go to work and just kind of making it through the day instead of owning the day and crushing it and being excited to be out there in the world, to somebody who woke up earlier and then got in my 45 minute hour workout. And then people that saw me throughout the rest of the day could tell that day whether I work out or not, if I had the energy, if I had a pep in my step, if I look like I was healthy, they're like, Oh, you got a good workout in this morning. And then the days and it didn't happen often, but the days where I was kind of lazy or just didn't have that same energy, they knew that they would call me out and say, Matt, you didn't work out this morning. And I said, No, I didn't. And it's I think feeling that energy. Once I started working out and just feeling the difference in my body. It just it maybe it's a probably different person. It started to make me believe in myself more once I started seeing that success and realizing I can wake up earlier in the morning. I did it. I'm conquering alcohol while also making myself healthier. It's just, you can't help it build confidence in yourself because you're making these positive changes. And I would say to anybody who's looking to start a morning routine, I mentioned this to everybody. You don't have to start by waking up an hour and a half earlier. I mean, you could wake up 10 minutes earlier and do journaling, do a meditation practice, just do something to help you gain a sort of taking action on the day, instead of waking up and flipping on the news and reacting to all the negativity that's happening in the morning.Yeah, now Absolutely. So along those lines, and you talk about having a smile file, kind of explain that and share how we can each build one ourselves.I would love to explain it That's like my favorite part of anything I talk about. So the smile file is something that you know, as I said, waking up in the morning and just feeling more energized. Instead of looking at your phone or seeing something negative, I encourage people to do something positive. And a smile file is examples of how individuals have positively impacted other people or the world. Or let me give an example. Let's just say somebody in the workforce. And they have their yearly review. And their boss says that they did a great job like they appreciate the work they're doing. Or if you volunteer and one of the fellow volunteers or people that you're helping say, hey, thanks a lot for coming out. Like I appreciate you spending the time write that stuff down and put it in what I call the smile file, which is just a binder or folder or something where you keep examples of all these ways you've positively impacted other people. And it will probably take time to build it up. I mean, I've been doing mine for years. And the coolest part is what I encourage everybody to do. Is it in the morning, read one of these examples. of how you help the world become a better place. And you can't help but just feel better. And just think, Wow, like I, I did that I positively impacted the world. And it helps in twofold it helps you, your energy is much better, you're standing up straighter, your posture is probably better, who's more confident, and then you will most likely This is what I've heard a lot of people that have coached happen is you start looking for more ways that you can positively impact other people. It just happens because you've had this routine now and you're thinking about the smile file, how can you help other people? And it's a completely as you said, it's a mindset shift that can be powerful.Yeah, and I think it's a simple thing. To recognize that the more you focus on something, the more that's what you become. Yeah. And that's a huge and I without going into the religious talk conversation, I think that that is one of the most powerful things in our lives is what you choose to focus on, you become. Yeah, I agree, kind of gets into the idea of creation. There's a lot of people who are scared of the idea of creation because they think, man, I don't want to. If I have to accept that I'm the creator of everything that's happened, then that's terrifying to me. And for me, it was terrifying. At one point in my life, when I realized man, I kept the potential to create whatever existence I want in my life. It's daunting, right? I don't want that ability, right? But the point where I Okay, I see it now how do I do it? And how do you do it kind of is daunting. Once you understand that. It's an exciting thing. And then just like you when you're reading your journal, and you found out Oh, man, this is terrible, right? This is crazy. But on the other hand, like everything that happened was your own creation and yeah, nation that everything that happened was your creation comes with the realization that you can create whatever you want because you already created and so understanding that that's the the the thrilling, probably one of the most thrilling things in my life that I could ever share with somebody is that you're a creator and what you create is yours. Now, whether you like that or not, it's kind of up to you. Yeah. But the fact that you were able to create an can create that's, that's fulfilling and exciting.One. Yeah. I love I agree. And I mean, I thinkthink about it is like a lot of people asked me if something goes wrong. I try to blame myself first. And what I mean by that is, to me, that's empowering to me. If I think of how I can change myself to fix whatever the issue is, then I'm empowering myself. And some people will say, Well, Matt, as you blame yourself all the time. Like doesn't that like, doesn't make you feel bad and I say no because that means I, I have the power to change myself to change whatever is going on. It's a problem around me versus what I used to be like was pointing the finger at everybody else. It's his fault. It's her fault. It's their fault. And that's just empowering all them. I can't change who they are, but I can change who I am. Sure. And I think that comes down to what, what your definition of the word blame is or fault is I had a conversation with my brother, and he's like, Oh, it's their fault. It's their fault. And I'm just like, Okay, well, I think it's, like, sounds like we have a different definition of the fault, or at least the meaning and what the implications of it are me. I'm with you blame or fault. That's a fantastic thing to have. If you can blame me for everything in my life. I'm thrilled because that means it's mine to change. Yeah, but the moment you start saying, Oh, well, that's not your fault. That's that person and you're trying to take power from me by saying that my situation is somebody else's fault. I don't allow that right. My situation is my responsibility. And I love that I can have control over Nobody can take that away from you. So with that being said, what, what kind of led you then to start competing in all these different things? Like there's a, there's a level of like, I like to get fit. And then there's a level of Okay, I'm going to go compete with the world on how fit I am. Yeah. What became the like, how did you get onto American Ninja Warrior? How did you go about setting these two World Records like what exactly transpired that made you even think about doing that?Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I think the first one is, I have been competitive from a very young age. And I think to have an older brother who beat me in a lot of things growing up, it just helped me with my competitive drive to keep it you know, I figured if I could beat him like I could beat anybody. So it was fun. And I think I had that ingrained in me at a young age. But the other thing I think the combination of that and getting these small wins that I had after I stopped drinking and just seeing the positive effect. That my body and mind and energy we're having. It's just made me start to think, well, what else can I do? You know, if I can stop drinking and I can start working out, then you know, that's a good start. It's a good base. But how far can I take this thing and the American Ninja Warrior thing happened? Because I love the show. And my cousin loves the show. And she said to me one day, just kind of like, out of nowhere. Hey, man, you want to try out for that show. And I hadn't even really thought about being on the show before as you said, you see some of these shows and you think you're I don't know how that person got on there. But it's cool to cool to see him on TV. But I never thought until it's really till she said that that I could be one of those people on TV. But I started looking into it. You see, really you just you fill out a bunch of stuff online and then they have you send in a three-minute video where you kind of show off some of your physical abilities, but also it is a TV show so they want to make it very entertaining. And I played the angle of I'm a die-hard Pittsburgh fan as we joke around before I'm a Steeler fan. I love my city. And I played up the angle of this sort of Mr. Pittsburgh, and I had a terrible towel for those of you that know that or know the Pittsburgh Steelers, we swing around this terrible tower Pittsburgh Steeler games. And they must have loved it because I will say this after I sent him the video and I sent in my form. I thought I was going to hear back within a month or two. And it took I think it took four months. I almost forgot about even submitting videos and stuff. And I finally am randomly I'm driving home from work one day, and I get a phone call and she says it's you know, Leslie from American Ninja Warrior. I was driving the car off the side of the road because I couldn't believe they called me and it was really funny because they said you know, we love the video with sorry, it took us a while to get back to you. We'd love to have you run the course and be on the show. And I said to them, that's great. I don't train every day like an American Ninja Warrior. Like I don't have our something set up in the backyard. It's American Ninja Warrior asked. So I said, How many months Do I have to train before you take the show? And she started laughing and she said, we're coming to Pittsburgh in a week and a half. I kind of had a crash course. I went to this gym. It's like a gymnastics gym. I think I went seven times and nine days to try to get my skills up to be on the show. But I guess one of the takeaways I would say is, I know it's cliche, if I can do it, anybody can do it. But it's so true. I mean, if there's something that you want to do, and you want to go after, the first step is putting yourself out there and submitting the video or sending in the form or shooting a Facebook Live video, whatever it is. I being on that show helped me stretched my comfort zone because I didn't consider myself quote an American Ninja Warrior. You're but then you get asked to be on the show after you submit the video and it becomes real so really if I can submit a video and beyond anybody out there in your in your world should definitely go after whatever they think they might not be able to getyeah I love that there are so many things in life that we can just like kind of think about doing may be put in a little bit effort but if we're not focused on it will forget that we forget that even happened right it wasn't really a goal wasn't a passion project yours you're just something that you did but it's those little things that you can be a yes man, for now, there are some people say yes to everything other people say there is no to everything. I think there's a healthy balance and first check and say Hey, is this in alignment with my values? I would say yes to as much as you can. That's in alignment with your values and say no to everything else because it doesn't matter. It's on alignment. And, and this not only helped him help Matt get out of this comfort. But this, I mean, I don't know at what stage you became a public speaker, but like being able to get out of your comfort zone, that's like one of the number one fears of people, which is weird. I love speaking in front of people, but it's, it's one of the number one fears. But when you step out of your comfort zone enough times, you start to say, okay, whatever, I'll do whatever. And I'm going to be successful, whatever, because I'm willing to do it confidently, even if I blow it, you know, I know that.So I didn't even know we're going to go here. And I'm so glad you brought that up. Because that's so as you said, public speaking up, maybe you've been blessed with just always liking public speaking, I'll be completely honest, I used to hate it and be scared to death of it. And it took me a lot of as you just said, getting out of my comfort zone to feel comfortable in front of four people, let alone 400 or 4000 people so, but as you alluded to Sam, I think one thing if you are trying to get better at public speaking or anything that's out of your comfort zone, keep stretching yourself and pushing yourself outside of the comfort zone and I, I actually coach some people to become better speakers. And the first thing is, speak, speak speak. Just keep getting on stage finding places to speak. I love Toastmasters, a great organization that helps you get out there. You're nodding your head. You might bespeaking tomorrow in Toastmasters. Oh,yeah, that's awesome. Toastmasters is that organization is changed my life. But keep speaking, but also, as you said, do other things that are outside of your comfort zone. It doesn't have to just be speaking, you know, sign up for a show, shoot that live video that you want to do whatever pushes you outside of the comfort zone. Yeah, it starts to become normal after a while.Yeah, for me, the one thing that I'm working on right now it's still it's karaoke. I'm super confident in my singing voice. If I close my eyes, so this is interesting. I have one of my business coaches, he throws you put people through this experience, where you get a chance to kind of dance, create a dance and go dance in front of everybody, and they cheer for you, which is great. And they're all doing the same thing. Sothat's awesome.But I have no problem going crazy dancing, however, like just really losing it. Like, I know a lot of people do when they're drunk or a high or whatever. I have a lot of fun, but I keep my eyes closed. And because it's coming, it's like the ostrich in the sand. Right? It's like if I can't see you, you can't see me I'm just having myself a good time. Right. And so something I've been working on through karaoke is being able to not just stare at the TV screen or, or close my eyes and sing the song but engage with the audience while I'm singing. And it's terrifying for me I still to this day, it is terrifying. And my family and many of my siblings have recorded CD out like this. They're good at singing my family. It's not something that I've ever felt that I even remotely match up to on that level. And so I don't sing a lot. But that's where that's currently if you're listening wondering where Sam stretching himself, karaoke is something that stretches me every time I do it, and it's terrifying. And I still choose to go do it. Because that's awesome.I think that's so cool. Okay, I gotta ask you a question now. So you're stretching yourself with karaoke? Do you feel more confident now in Toastmasters? Or when you're giving a presentation because of stretching yourself so far in karaoke?Oh, yeah, totally because it helps you be more comfortable with the sound of your voice, and more confident projecting, doing different tonalities speeds, everything it helps you gain more command over and more comfortability with it. So it has enabled me to engage with my audience more, get more emotional, get more excited about everything. The more that I've done karaoke. So it's a good thing, but ever, that's where it comes down to kind of Keystone habits are principles that are applicable everywhere. And when you start making one change in one area of your life, it bleeds into all the other areas of your life. And that's what's so cool about transformation and being able to identify those smaller things. I'm curious as you transition because I know you have a nine to five that we're not going to talk about. Okay, but on the side of your nine to five through this transformation, you've started a whole nother kind of personal brand for yourself through different things. Tell me a story of or tell us a story rather of your biggest naysayer, the person who just like didn't believe in you the most and how are you able to silence them and just still go forward and do what you know that you wanted to do?Oh, that's a really good question. And I am going to, I'm going to answer the question. I'm not going to skirt around it but I'm going to use it. Because it was tough for me. So I had when I was in this party mode. In my mid-20s, I had four really good friends. And these four friends were my drinking buddies, they were my buddies that I would Friday after work, they would meet up at my house, or I go to their house at 6 pm. And we would start until we all passed out that night and then do the same thing Saturday, and a lot of Sundays. So these four people, in my mind became my close friends. And what I didn't realize was, you know, you the way you act, you attract people like how you're acting, or that's how I believe in the law of attraction. So, I was drinking Friday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'm going to attract people that are doing what I'm doing. So one of the most powerful things that happened to me was once I stopped drinking, and I told These four guys that I have to stop, like, I'm going in the wrong direction, I need to do this. And they did not believe me that I was going to stop. And they thought, Oh, no, you know, he'll stop for a week or two or whatever. And then he'll be right back out with us. So they did not believe I was going to do it. I don't they didn't know how serious I was about it. And I'll say two things. The first thing I'll say is, I wish I would have taken them aside, maybe even one by one and had a really tough Heart to Heart about. It's not their fault. I mean, it's my fault that I'm putting myself in this situation. I want them to still be in my life, but I just can't drink anymore with them. So that may have even empowered them to decide to make changes themselves. But the other thing I'll say is, as I think this is where your question is going, if you make changes in your life, I don't care what change it is, you're probably going to have some people that are pretty close to you, if not very close to you say come down on you and why would you change? Why are you doing this? You know, it'll never last you know. And I think people that say that maybe they're scared that you're going to get ahead of them and leave them behind. Or maybe they're just not comfortable in their skin. I don't know what it is. But if anybody is if you're listening and you want to make a positive change, make the positive change, you will never regret it in the long run. But be prepared for some of those people that that may challenge you, even if they're not even trying to, they may just be trying to keep you around or keep you quote-unquote safe. Whenever you need to fly, you need to let yourself go and make these positive changes. So the naysayers would be those three or four close friends that I had that I still talked to two of them, I don't see him very often, but what I noticed was my whole group of friends started shifting. Once I started getting healthier. I became friends with people who wanted to be healthy, who ate healthily who worked out who did marathons and obstacle course races so that she In close friends was really helpful and I almost upgraded the people that I was hanging out with.Yeah, no, that's, I think that's the key is being willing to, to step away and be committed to the change and recognize that they're not dissuading you or telling you to know, you're can do it out of it's not out of disbelief for you, it's out of protection for themselves at and that's a, something we all have to deal with. And that's what I would encourage you to do is think about the people listening. Where in your life are you currently being a naysayer?That's a good question.Yes. Because we think oh, yeah, all these people are naysaying us. Right. But hey, wherein your life? Are you currently inviting other people not to achieve their dreams? Where are you currently not believing in somebody else's ability to do what they say they're going to do? And then write a note. And start today to change your level of support and start believing in them. Because as you start to believe in others kind of goes back to the very beginning of your smile, your smile, right? You start to believe in others, you're naturally going to start believing in yourself. And that's the key. So, even if you can't believe in yourself yet, start by believing in others, and start becoming somebody who is a yes, say, or somebody who believes in somebody rather than a naysayer, because it means it's a progression. In fact, in my book, the fuel your legacy nine pillars to build a meaningful legacy that starts with haters and goes right into believers like what, that the transition is a natural transition to go from, and part of growth. So I'm curious if you were to focus on a specific habit, mindset or behavior that you have used to create your meaningful legacy what would that be and then how can we adopted into our lives, smartphonesOh, that's a really good question. And actually, I'll answer that I'm thinking about this naysayer thing. You got me thinking now if I'm being a naysayer anywhere in my life, I wrote that one down. That's good. But habit, a habit to fuel your legacy. I would say I think one of the most powerful habits and I think it does go along with journaling is having a gratitude practice. I think, being grateful and focusing on what you're grateful for. What I'm grateful for, is it's a mindset shift that I didn't even fully believe in instead until I started doing it, and I'm mine is my gratitude practices really simple. Right after I meditate, I sit, I'm typically sitting on the floor sitting in a chair, eyes closed, and I just try to put myself in a situation where I felt extreme gratitude in my life. And I typically do two of those scenarios where I feel that gratitude and then the third one was Three things I'm grateful for. And the third one is typically something very small. It's not some massive thing like a big vacation or something. It's just the fact that I was able to see the sunrise that morning or I got a chance to work out or I woke up on the I got another chance at life, I'm alive. So I think having a gratitude practice, it doesn't have to be the not the last 10 or 15 minutes. I mean, it could be one minute just helps you helps me anyways, get my mindset, right. And then as I go throughout my day, as you're saying, we become what we focus on. If you do a gratitude practice in the morning, as you go about your day, instead of thinking about things that upset you or you don't like you start thinking things about what you're grateful for because you have this practice already started. So I'm a workout nut. So the two things I'll say our gratitude practice and exercising in the morning just because I think if you don't do it in the morning, there are too many things use later on in the day that we can make up to avoid the exercise. So, Julie, your legacy, I'll go with gratitude and working out.Awesome. I love that. So when people are transitioning this I know you're coaching speak on, on stage about helping people kind of chase their best self and become as much as they can chase their potential. How important is understanding how money works in that transition?I think it's huge. Yeah, I mean, I think that's, yeah, that's a great question. Because I think if you can't, I mean, that's the difference between I guess making it a hobby and making it a business right. I think if you can find a way to do what you're passionate about, and also, you're earning enough income to let you do it, then you basically have it made and I think the cool discussion is, you know, I'm sure you have friends like this to Sam or we probably both have friends that earn $50,000 a year working for themselves and they're the happiest people in the world. And you probably know people that make $300,000 a year and they hate their lives and they come home miserable every day. So to me, if you can, if we're talking about entrepreneurs or even if you work for a company, and you are completely fulfilled and happy and what you're doing, like I am when I'm on stage like you are Sam, probably when you're coaching and doing your podcast, and if you're making enough income to support you and your family I think you got it made and you know, you want to put some aside for later down the road for your kids school and your retirement and all that. But um, yeah, I think you need to find away. If you're serious about your passion and whatever you want to go after in life to monetize it, at least to some extent or else it just becomes an expensive hobby. ProbablyYeah, no, I completely agree. And I think that's part of that is understanding how money works and the role that it plays in building your legacy. It's not that your legacy is financial and that's a common thing that I get well, what do you mean by legacy? Because legacy is a financial word like no legacy can be financial, it can have a financial legacy, but almost always money needs to fund your legacy, but your legacy is not necessarily the money, your legacy. It could be I mean, there are people who I would say their legacy is the money. I would think the Rockefellers is somebody who likes people know them for the money even though like the Rockefellers, we, this is crazy, but we probably would not have gasoline engines right now. or gasoline as a whole without the Rockefellers that was their business was Trent the transferring and that the creation of gasoline-like everybody uses it you nobody knows the rock, rock fellers for oil and gas with All know them because of the financial legacy they left which is fine. But as we have, we should be eternally grateful for their society, right. And so you get to choose what people will remember you for. And that choice should be lived now. So we're getting into the final fun things about this. But I'm curious how could we support you? How can we get access to your book? Is it Where do we find that? What's the best place to find Matt and kind of participate in your vision and your legacy that you're building?Yeah, I mean, the book is on Amazon, it is called the first 15. Yeah, feel free to check that out. I'm very active on Instagram if anyone wants to follow along, and as Sam already said, if you have questions or comments reach out to me, as he knows, I try to respond as quickly as I can. So on Instagram, it's just my name at Matt skullet a co le TTI. And I'm happy to hopefully inspire some people to help some people and interact with all of you on there.Yeah, awesome. Cool. So this is called legacy on rapid-fire this next section. Now the one thing that the caveat that I'm happy to put in here is the first question you have to clarify. Okay, fair enough. The legacy of rapid-fire, what do you believe is holding you back from reaching the next level of your legacy?myself?Everybody says that's what you have to clarify. Oh,wait, ask me the question. Again. I think I got a good answer. But what is holding you back from reaching the next level of your legacy?I think myself because I need to continue to as we're talking about upgrading the people that you surround yourself with. I think I need to keep stretching my comfort zone in who I get in front of as far as is speaking opportunities. So I want to I do have a coach, I'm going to join at least one organization of all speakers. And I think being around other individuals that are playing the game at a higher level than me, I think the only way to grow is if you know, you want to get better at tennis and you're playing against the worst tennis player, you're not gonna get any better. So I want to keep getting in rooms with people like yourself, Sam that is playing the game at a high level, in our in, in their business in their lives there where I aspire to be. I don't want to be ahead of everybody that's in the room as me so I think continuously pushing myself out of my comfort zone to surround myself with people that are much more successful than I am because that's where I want to be.Yeah, absolutely. I love it. So what is the hardest thing you think you've ever accomplished?I think the hardest thing I've ever accomplished is becoming a professional speaker. And that's because of kind of go back to the same question I was holding myself back. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a quick story is this may help Iraq is in fifth grade. I was, I got volunteered to give a speech to run for student government. I didn't want to run for student government. I didn't want to give this speech, but my class volunteer means fifth grade. So I get up in front of the whole school. There's like 400 people in this room. My whole speech was five sentences. It was like a minute long. I memorized the speech, I thought I had it down. I left the piece of paper in my locker, but I thought I had memorized it enough. So I can go out there and give it I got the first four senses down and then I blanked on the fifth sense, and I stood there like a dope in front of 400 people. And the reason I'm telling this story is I told myself the story of I suck as a public speaker for the next 20 years of my life, because of a sample size of one screw up when if I had just had my speech in front of me, I'm sure we've gone fine and I wouldn't have thought that so I told myself as you said, This limiting belief, I told myself the story that I was not a good public speaker. So to get over that story, to me build confidence like I couldn't even imagine once I started succeeding in front of a group.Yeah, I love that. So what do you believe your greatest success at this point in your life has been thegreatest success isI think my greatest success is the relationship that I've helped build with my wife. So that was, I'm a family man. So we don't have kids yet or dogs yet, but I'm sure in the future, who knows, but I think the relationship that we share has been the greatest feeling and the greatest success. I don't think any business or public speaking success could compare to the relationship I have with ourawesome I love that's, I think, before this conversation we were talking off-camera. And he asked me Hey, what do you want your like, what do you get excited about in the morning? And I said you know right now probably not what I want to get excited about. I said, most excited about waking up and helping to help clients I love helping people make the mindset transformation about how they do and their relationship with money. I think it's the most fulfilling thing for me. And but I want to wake up and get excited about that I get to see my kids and then I get to see my wife. So I love that that is your great success to this point in your life to I would say my family is my greatest success right now. But I don't know that I am mentally treating in that way, which is an issue.But that's great that you acknowledge it. I mean, that's how you can buildon that right? Yeah, for sure. So what are two or three books that you would recommend to fuel your legacy audience?Oh, two or three bucks. So actually, I have my button.I'll give you three books. So these are my three favorite books. Two of them. One of them has been around for a while two of them are newer. Thinking Grow Rich is one of my favorite books that has ever been written I have that there's like three or four books that I will reread once a year and thinking Grow Rich is one of them. the second book I'll give you is called the 5 am Club by Robin Sharma. And he basically as you know, I'm a morning routine guy, and he is he talks about how waking up early can completely change your life. And the way that he writes the book is cool because it's almost like a fictional fairy tale style that he writes the book and he tells a great story while also giving you awesome tips on personal development and business development. So 5 am Club, the last one I'll give you, which is an intense book is called can't hurt me. And it's written by a guy named David Goggins, who was a former Navy SEAL. And he is he's one of the most intense crazy guys are you ever hear about, but hearing his story of just really difficult childhood, he was extremely overweight turned Navy SEAL badass guy is it's a strong powerful story I think a lot of people will enjoy.Awesome. We'll have some links to those in the show notes here. And then also links to where you can get ahold of and find Matt on social media and his website there. So here's my favorite question. I think this is pretty much why I do this podcast because we get to pretend that you're dead. And that's exciting. No, all right. Good. You're dead, right? So so we're in pretend you're dead. And you are now kind of view into the future six generations from now. So your great-great, great, great, great-grandchildren. They're sitting around a table, discussing your life, man. They're talking about what your legacy is. What do you want your Sixth Generation great, great, great, great-grandchildren? What do you want them to be saying about your legacy?Wow, that is a good question right there. I like this question. What do I want them to be saying about me six generations down the road? Um, I think one of the things I want them to be saying is, no matter how many setbacks you have in your life, you can still succeed at anything that you do so I mean, I consider myself to have failed. I don't even know how many hundreds or thousands of times but all at all, if you look at the whole picture, I feel like it's been a pretty darn successful life and I expect to do the same in the future. Meaning that when we do these things I want to try to improve on I'm going to fail 1020 times, but if you succeed once, then it seen as an insane, insanely huge success overall, so I would say, down the road that would be one of the things that I would want them to say is, is to basically keep failing, keep failing. And don't be afraid to screw up because in my opinion, I don't think you can do anything great if you never fail and you never continuously fail and finally figure out whatever it is to have the right success. So yeah, I think that's, that's what I would want to say to I mean, the never give up style attitude. But even more than that, don't be afraid to be yourself. Don't be afraid to fail. Because if you keep going after your passion, eventually you'll get there.Yeah, awesome. Love it. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on this show and sharing your words of wisdom, your story. I'm excited for everybody who has the opportunity or takes the opportunity rather than goes get his book and to learn from him beyond social media. She is somebody who's Excited early in the morning on Instagram, so if you're looking for people who are gonna like you, you're gonna open your phone most people do it. The first thing you see is the excitement of Matt Scoletti, then you're on a good track because he is he's up and moving. AndI love doing those videos about okay.I appreciate that.Awesome.Well, catch you guys next time on fuel your legacy.Thanks for joining us. What you heard today resonates with you please like comment and share on social media tag me and if you do give me a shout out I'll give you a shout out on the next episode. Thanks to all those who've left a review. It helps spread the message of what it takes to build a legacy that lasts and we'll catch you next time on fuel your legacy.Connect more with your host Samuel Knickerbocker at:https://www.facebook.com/ssknickerbocker/?ref=profile_intro_cardhttps://www.instagram.com/ssknickerbocker/https://howmoneyworks.com/samuelknickerbockerIf this resonates with you and you would like to learn more please LIKE, COMMENT, & SHARE————————————————————————————————————Click The Link Bellow To Join My Legacy Builders Mastermindhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/254031831967014/Click here to check out my webinar as well! ————————————————————————————————————Want to regain your financial confidence and begin building your legacy?In this ebook you will learn:- The 9 Pillars To Build A Legacy- Clarify you “why”- Create Daily Action Steps To Launch ForwardWant Sam’s FREE E-BOOK?Claim your access here! >>> Fuel Your Legacy: The 9 Pillars To Build A Legacy————————————————————————————————————

Let's Talk about Meal Prep for Good Nutrition... On this week's episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry I got the chance to talk with Dr. Lisa Folden. I love her story as she is a physical therapist in training but soon realized the importance of nutrition and the lack thereof was having on her practice as well as her personal well being. Dr. Folden has her own practice Healthy Phit Physical Therapy & Wellness Consultants where she marries the art of physical fitness with nutritional behavior. She is on this week to talk about one of the most commonly noted but overlooked aspects of lifestyle modification which is meal prepping. As I have made lifestyle changes of my own, I know how difficult it can be to not only make the change to better eating but then to plan out those better meals but Dr. Folden does an amazing job giving us easy & actionable tips to get our journey started. We also got a chance to talk about her book "Healthy Made Easy: The Ultimate Wellness Guide for Busy Moms” and her upcoming book on meal planning. Text LUNCHLEARNPOD to 44222 to join the mailing list. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and share the episode with a friend or family member. Listen on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Soundcloud, iHeartRadio, Spotify Sponsors: Lunch and Learn Community Online Store (code Empower10) Pierre Medical Consulting (If you are looking to expand your social reach and make your process automated then Pierre Medical Consulting is for you) Dr. Pierre's Resources - These are some of the tools I use to become successful using social media My Amazon Store - Check out all of the book recommendations you heard in the episode Links/Resources: Healthy Made Easy www.HealthyPhit.com Instagram @HealthyPhit Facebook @HealthyPhit Twitter @HealthyPhit YouTube @HealthyPhit Social Links: Join the lunch and learn community – https://www.drberrypierre.com/joinlunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/lunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on twitter – http://www.twitter.com/lunchlearnpod – use the hashtag #LunchLearnPod if you have any questions, comments or requests for the podcast For More Episodes of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry Podcasts https://www.drberrypierre.com/lunchlearnpodcast/ If you are looking to help the show out Leave a Five Star Review on Apple Podcast because your ratings and reviews are what is going to make this show so much better Share a screenshot of the podcast episode on all of your favorite social media outlets & tag me or add the hashtag.#lunchlearnpod Download Episode 121 Transcript Episode 121 Transcript.. Introduction Dr. Berry: Welcome to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. I'm your host, Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of drberrypierre.com as well as a CEO of Pierre Medical Consulting. Helping you empower yourself for better health with the number one podcast for patient advocacy, education and promotion. Today we have another amazing guest on the podcast. Again, the theme this month is nutrition. And I thought, what better place to start when we talk about nutrition is meal prepping. Again, if you Google nutrition, you Google trying to lose weight one way or the other, you're gonna come across a blog post or a page or a video that talks about the importance of meal prep. And I get this question a lot. Honestly, I'm in the process of trying to be more diligent when it comes to meal prep and myself. So I figure, let's talk to someone who's been there, right? And really speaks about wellness and nutrition as a whole. And really is trying to hit it home. Out the park. I mean, when it comes to meal prepping and meal prepping for patients and her clients. This week we have Dr. Lisa Folden. She’s a licensed physical therapist, naturopathic lifestyle coach. She's a movement expert, women's health advocate, and she works to educate the general population on exercise safety as well as other aspects of physical wellness. And I thought it was very important to have her on the show because not only does she talk about the aspect of physical wellbeing. And obviously her being a physical therapist that makes a way, that may just as obvious, right? But she understands and she had almost like an epiphany that because she was dealing with just one side of the table, she was only doing half the job. When she wasn't educating her patients and our clients on the actual function of nutrition and how nutrition plays such a big role on the physical aspects of health. She knew she had to make a change. And right now she owns healthy fit physical therapy and wellness consultants in Charlotte, North Carolina where she works with clients of all ages, recovering from orthopedic as well as neurological injuries. She's also been featured on the Oprah magazine, Shape magazine, Lift Strong, bustle, because she's a writer as well too. She loves writing and she actually has her own book Healthy Made Easy: The Ultimate Wellness Guide for Busy Moms that we get the chance to talk to her about that as well as well as an upcoming book focusing again, hint on meal prepping. So again, I definitely decided for you guys to catch this episode. Again, like always, if you have not had a chance to go ahead and subscribe the podcast. At least leave us a five star review. Let us know what you feel about the podcast. Let us know what you feel about the episode. And then, tell a friend and tell a friend as always go. Again, I don't expect you to tell 50 people, but as long as you tell one person, that's all I can ask for. So again, get ready for another amazing episode here on the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. Episode Dr. Berry: Alright, Lunch and Learn community. Again you just heard another amazing introduction. You know the theme this month, we're talking about nutrition. We’re getting ourselves together when it comes to the subject of nutrition. And of course you know I ain't the expert, right? So I bring experts onto, you know, now kind of get you guys to get myself right as well too because I learned just as much as you do. So again, Dr Lisa, thank you for joining today's podcast. Dr. Lisa Folden: Thank you so much for having me. Dr. Berry: So Dr. Lisa I got a lot of my guests and a lot of my listeners who like to skip right past the introduction. They like to fast forward, past stuffing. They like to go straight to the meat and potatoes, given the pan, right? If they just missed your bio, let's say to even read your bio, what is something that made me not be in your bio, but says, you know what? This is what really kind of expands the person who I am as far as Dr. Lisa is concern. Dr. Lisa Folden: Yeah, well, being in the health field, I obviously have a passion for helping people. I think most people in our professions do. But for me personally, I'm just so passionate about health and exercise and making things fun and making nutrition and life manageable. So some of the things that don't go on my bio, a little tidbits about me. Number one, I love to dance. Like I could dance all day and if I thought that, if I had a little more confidence in myself as a dancer, when I was younger, I would probably not be a physical therapist. I'd probably be a professional choreographer or dancer. Because it's something I love, I incorporate it into my fitness lifestyle because I enjoy it. But yeah, that that's, you know, one of my things, I'm a neat freak doesn't have as much to do with nutrition necessarily, but I like to have things organized. I read organizational books and I follow organizational logs. And I'm the type of person that gets really excited going to the container store. You know what I mean? Dr. Berry: Wow. Okay. I love this. Okay that makes sense. I didn't even know there are organizational books, but now I'm even more intrigued by that aspect. And again I think it calls to the discipline and I'm pretty sure, and we'll talk about it. I'm pretty sure you understand how important discipline is with the subject of nutrition and getting ourselves together. For those who may not know or still may be just kind of coming into their own, when we talk about nutrition and its overall benefits to our health. What would you say it is? The grand scheme of things? Dr. Lisa Folden: Well first I'd like to say I don't consider myself a true expert on nutrition. My education and physical therapy, we have some nutrition training, but it's not, I definitely, I'm not a nutritionist by any means. So I never like to tell my clients or my audience people that I'm working with that I am the authority on nutrition. But I have a good grasp of it. Just from my work experience and history. And then of course living my own life and trying to figure it out. So what I have learned is that nutrition is so much more important than we were taught growing up. It's probably, as it relates to weight loss or weight maintenance, it's probably 80% honestly. And that's hard for me because I'm like an exercise and like I love to work out. So you know, you get in that mindset for a long time like, oh I'll eat that, but I'll just work it off. And that is no, not how it works. And I learned that the hard way for years and years. So I just think nutrition is, it's really primary. What you put into your body is, you're going to be a product of that. So it's, it's really important and it's hard in this country to find the right stuff and the good stuff. And sometimes when you think you got the right stuff, you read an article on Google that says not the right stuff. So it can be very confusing and very challenging. But it is very important to put at least a decent amount of effort into defining a nutrition plan and program that works for you, your family, your lifestyle. Dr. Berry: And what I love, and I think this is especially because we looked at it, you touched on it in the beginning is I think a lot of times, especially in when it comes to health and just health care in general, really just knowledge in general is that a lot of times, we kind of attribute the aspects of like, you know, having some type of degree or paper and at like sponsor us as experts when we all know job applications all day. Talk about what is your experience associated with what you're trying to do. And here, like especially in health, I see it all the time and you already know, it takes someone, they do a couple months of training and all of a sudden they propound themselves as this the expert de facto, right? Unfortunately, there isn't. If someone follows them and someone believes they are the expert, that's where it is. So I don't think, I never put too much, I put some on this right. And onus of meeting certain degrees certificates or something like that to say like, Oh, I'm an expert. But I always put more focused on like, oh, are you in the trenches? Are you getting down and dirty when it comes to it? Because that's the person I want to listen to you. I want to listen to the person who's had struggles. I want to listen to the person whose hats assessors. I want to listen to the person who is then able to initiate and then pass that knowledge on. Especially in Lunch and Learn community, I think that's always been a big thing for us, is understanding that those paper degrees is fine. But tell me what your life is about and that way. Because unfortunately most people are more likely gonna follow that type of person. A person who got whole bunch of degrees on the wall but don't talk about nothing, can't talk about nothing because they can't teach us. And I think it's interesting because you talked about the fact that you had to go through your own aspect of learning that, oh nutrition actually is the real deal. It was it because you are so active and you were able to balance it out. Was that someone you kind of leaning on the fact that you're so physically active and you are able to kind of get away with, maybe some of the nutritional discretions in the past? Dr. Lisa Folden: Well, I think it's probably most of us when you're an adolescent and you're exercising and moving all day and your metabolism has not yet come to a bit of a halt. You can live a lot more freely and do a lot more of whatever you want. You don't see the repercussions of it and then you're not even talking so you're not even thinking about it at that age. So for me, I was always very athletically built. Always very athletic in regard to the activities I chose. I ran cross country. I was a dancer in high school. So when I went into college, I think that was, that first shift, they talk about the freshman 15 and this and that. But I think that was my first shift and seeing like, oh, my body is changing a lot, growing up. But also based on the foods that I'm eating. What was accessible to me, with a lot of stuff that I don't think I normally ate. And so I saw changes happening. Wasn’t able to pinpoint exactly what to do about it at that point. But that's when I became more aware. And it wasn't until I got into physical therapy school and I started learning a little bit more that I started to understand, oh, okay. But even still, I mean that was like 15 years ago. And you still, because of you know, the way that you grow up sometimes you still have this desire to like, okay, I can just work it out. So I played that game for years and years and I think it was probably starting to have children and then seeing real changes. It's like, oh, okay, I cannot eat the things that I was eating at the rate and the consistency that I was eating them before. If I want to be healthy and be able to function and not continue gaining more and more weight. It all came to a halt I think with children. So I leaned on my youth and yeah, my activity level and then just not really understanding what was happening all the time. I did put on a little weight, which is fine. And I like to mention that I don't do a lot of heavyweight focused in my practice when I work with people for wellness needs. If you have a goal of changing your weight, I'm cool with that and we'll work with that. But I try not to make the primary focus to do with your weight because it can be so misleading. Some people are just naturally thinner, naturally smaller, naturally, way less. And it does not speak to their health as far as what they're putting in their bodies and what their body is able to do, what their lab work would say. So I don't focus heavily on that, but sometimes, oftentimes, weight is the most visible descriptor of what's happening as far as what you're eating. So for me, yeah, definitely seeing changes and fluctuations in my weight and then also when some activities that I could do before it became more challenging. And it's like, hold on what's going on here? I don't remember needing this much water in a day. But now if I don't get my 64 to 98 ounces, something is wrong. You know what I mean? So yeah, just being more aware of those changes and seeing being their effects on my body. Dr. Berry: And when I look at, and I know you talked about being a physical therapist. I'm pretty sure with a lot of just on that aspect of your work and in seeing where you know and if a person's nutrition, isn't optimal. And makes that side of the job part of it as well. What were some of the things that kind of led you to say, what I think I want to take a more proactive role. Not only in myself but in others when it comes to nutrition. Dr. Lisa Folden: I was working, let's see, I graduated in some so long ago, 2007 from physical therapy school and I started out doing contract work. So I would just work at a location gym for 13 weeks or so and then move on to another. And I enjoy that because I have a tendency to get bored. So it's nice to kind of switch up my environment, switch up my caseload. I got to see adults and children. So I have a pretty wide spectrum. But what I noticed is when I kinda got into the field of and staying more consistently in a location, it just became like the same thing over and over again. So and so need for this. Run them through a program real quick and then six months later they're back for something else. So I started to feel like a factory worker and I was just kind of repairing the same people over and over again. And it dawns on me, and this was around the time that I started contemplating starting my own practice which I eventually did. It just dawned on me that we spend a lot of time on rehab and no time on prehab. So I started… (Oh, I love that. Hey, alright, okay). It goes with our American system, right? We're not necessarily a healthcare system, we're more of a secure system. And so it became annoying and frustrating to me that I could probably instill some knowledge and people that would prevent them from having these injuries over and over and over again. And a lot of it, a lot of the injuries is of course related to weight or just poor nutrition in general. And so that's when I contemplated to start more practice a few years later. I did and I immediately my practice is like wellness. We’re going to do physical therapy, absolutely. You get injured, I'm happy to help you. We're going to do wellness. So almost all of my clients know that we'll be finished healing their injury, the very acute thing that's happening in them. We moved right into, okay, what's next? It's like alright now, now the core is strong. How are we going to keep it that way? What are we going to do? So I just make that, my focus now is really getting people to consider how they don't want to come back for the same thing or deal with the same issues. So how we can sort of revamp what you're doing. And I do that a lot with my moms. I have a fit mom program that I work with and I help women, especially after babies. It gets real challenging. Your whole world gets kind of turned upside down. And I have a heart for that because I've been through it myself three times now. And so I work with them on their nutrition and making things very simple, easy, creating some grabable meals, things that are healthy and fulfilling to their bodies that they don't feel like they're in the kitchen, slaving over, for hours and hours and hours. So, yeah, I just, all of that, you know, that whole experience and seeing people do the same thing over and over again, and me being there to facilitate it, it was like, this is insanity. Let me, let me figure out a new plan here. So. Dr. Berry: And I love that especially because the fact that, and I think a lot of times when we hear of nutrition, people always go to a weight. If your nutrition is bad, your healing's bad, right? If your nutrition bad and mentation is bad. There’s so many other things associated with nutrition that like weight becomes more of a byproduct more than the actual targeted aspect and goal. And so one of the reasons why, I definitely want to highlight here, is because obviously in this day and age we're in August, right? I had a previous guest tell me 80% of people who had new year's resolutions have already kind of failed and dropped them right in. They're already thinking about next year's resolutions. (Yeah. Unfortunately). One of the big things, especially when people start thinking about, trying to get better as far as with their eating right, is the onus and is the practice of meal prepping. And again, full disclosure, Lunch and Learn community members, I am going to be like kind of taking down notes as well because I have trouble with justice. The just getting behind the mindset of it. Let's talk about meal prep and why is this such an important aspect? Because I know you're big on it as well too. Dr. Lisa Folden: Yeah. I spent a lot of time meal prepping and revamping my meal prep process because it is more than a notion. I always tell people start small because it takes some effort and some energy and some thought. But I like to look at the idea of meal prep like this. You know, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail, right? And you have to take that same thinking into your food. If you are just going to fly by the seat of your pants. And that works for some people. So I don't, not the process. You have to find your own process. But most times if you're going by the seat of your pants on your eating, then you're not going to be eating good. And that's just the bottom line. If you're not planning out what are going to be my breakfast options this week, my lunch, my dinners, then you're likely ordering fast food, carry out, going out to lunch multiple days a week, or eating a bunch of snacks. We’re human, right? And that is usually what it lends itself to. So for me, the construct of meal prep starts in the mind. It's like, all right, let's think this through. What do I know to be good for my body? How can I incorporate as much of that into my daily eating as possible? How can I avoid spending my money and eating things that are probably made from mostly, not great products and putting them into my body every single day? And so I look at it from that standpoint and then I create affirmations around it. Dr. Berry: We love affirmations out here. We love it. Dr. Lisa Folden: Right now on my bathroom mirror, I have like five or six affirmations associated with my eating. And one of them is my taste books are not more important than my physical health. Right? So sometimes I want some cheese cake or some Oreos and those things are fine in moderation obviously. But I know myself, I have a moderation problem. Dr. Berry: I love that. See, we're right here with it, right? We know that we can't even, like now we can't even go to, because we just don't stop. Dr. Lisa Folden: I can eat a whole, like a whole row of Oreo. So for me, I don't bring it into my home. Now from out somewhere and there's a cookie, oh, I'll take one, that's fine. But I don't bring those foods into my home so that my whole concept of meal prep just revolves around that idea that my being healthy and eating fuel and food that is good for my body and it's going to make my body work better is more important than that temporary satisfaction of a taste. And so I plan for it, I create affirmations around it. I write out a menu, I shop forward, and I meal prep and I go from there. And when I do step outside of it, because I'm meeting friends for lunch or dinner or whatever, it's not a huge deal because the vast majority of the time during the week I'm sticking within my plan. So that's how. Dr. Berry: So what would you say and you talked about preparation. What other benefits are really associated with those who are looking to get into meal prep, or doing meal prep or are in that process like you know, a lot of times, for us, we gotta mentally kind of put ourselves in that process first before we can take that. Dr. Lisa Folden: Yes. As you should. I suggest that because like I said, if you just, sometimes when you jump into it, it's like overwhelming and it's too much. But the benefits of meal prep, I mean they're numerous. Number one, you're more aware of what you're eating, right? So you know what's going in your body. If you're a calorie counter or someone who likes to be very mindful of how much they're eating. You plan it out. You literally portion it out. You size it out. You make sure you're getting the right serving sizes. Number two, of course you save tons of money. I don't even like to do the math sometimes. If I'm all not doing my meal prep, I check my bank account and I see what I've spent on carry out and like a week or let alone a month. I have a family of five so it gets real bad. Dr. Berry: Same here, same here. I got two twins and an older daughter. So we just can't just go out. Dr. Lisa Folden: It’s depressing to the bank account. So what I do, obviously you saved a lot of money when you meal prep. To me like I said, it just keeps you organized and you know, that speaks to my inner organizational person. I love the idea of knowing, all right, here's the kid’s lunches. These are my lunches. These my husband lunches. Here's the freezer prep for the next four meals. It saves time. Meal Prep can take you several hours obviously, but it saves you so much time during the week when you can come home, get off work and all you have to do is throw your dinner in the oven. You know what I mean? It's so easy if you can get up in the morning and get your kids off to school or wherever they're going and all they do is grab their already premade lunch out of the fridge. It free up so much time. And for me the personal benefits are when you free up that time, then you get to do more things you love. Like spend time with your family, go figure right or shoot, lay out on the couch and watch TV if you want to. You know what I mean? It gives you the ability to spend more time doing things that you enjoy because now you're prepared and your week is set as far as your nutrition goes. So, of course the weight benefits, the nutrition, making sure you're eating good foods, all of that is there. But saving money and time and restoring memories and things that you don't always get to make because of our busy, busy lives. Those are the big benefits to me. Dr. Berry: I love it. I love all of them. But Dr. Lisa, you already know, and I'm pretty sure you probably ran through most of them. You going to have people, going to hit you with the excuses. (Yes). What are some of the more common, I'll call it misconception, but you know really what are some of the common excuses you hear for people who say, Oh, I can't, I can't do that. Dr. Lisa Folden: Oh, there's so many. Let me pick out my favorites. First, let me say, excuses are tools of incompetence. (Let's talk). Okay, so the reality is this, if you want something bad enough, you're willing to work for it. And I take that into every aspect of my life. Period. Family, schooling, education, career, nutrition, health, fit, all of it. It goes into every category. The most common excuses I get are time. It takes too long. I'm not interested in that. And I respect that one because time is valuable, for me too. And so for people like that, I suggest we take a small. Maybe instead of meal prepping once a week where you're spending three or four hours, maybe you meal prep twice a week. So maybe on Sunday you meal prep, a few things to get you through Wednesday and then maybe on Wednesday you meal prep, a few things to get you through, you know, Thursday, Friday or the weekend, whatever. I also suggest that people take time off. Like sometimes meal prep, it can be a lot when you're doing it consistently every week. So to give yourself a breather, take a week off. That week, just make sure you shop for things that are healthy and grabable. And then you plan your curiosity around sort of your healthier food options in your neighborhood or wherever you work or live. So there's ways to get around it. But that's the biggest excuse that I don't have time. Another excuse I get is, their families. People who have like picky eaters with kids and I have a whole chapter in my book about that, so I'm ready for that one too. And it's just sometimes people don't, you know, we'll Google everything, right? I got a scratch on my arm or let me look this up. Sometimes people forget when it comes to meal planning and recipes and things like that. Use the internet, use Google, find some things that sound attractive to your kid. Find ways, if you know what your kids like, find ways to incorporate things they like into the meals so that you're not, you know, meal prepping and basically being wasted. So picky eaters can be tough, but there's definitely ways. I hide food, hide vegetables inside of food all the time. My kids have no idea. You can say, my kids don't eat vegetables. I'm good for making them like a cheese and chopping up fine, yellow bell peppers and they have no idea, that way it blends in with the cheese. I'm all for that. I'm all for problem solving. But yes, picky eaters. And then I say the third most common meal prep excuse I get is, well, two, one people think it costs too much, which, you know, I can totally refute that it does not your fast food and your carry out is way more expensive. Dr. Berry: Way more. Quickly too. At least for me, I know one session and then I'm like, oh my God, what are we doing right here? Dr. Lisa Folden: Exactly. But that one is easy to get rid of. But the other one is for people who are single and you know, live alone or just don't feel like, oh, I don't want to eat that. I don't wanna eat the same thing all the time. Or I don't want to cook all of that food. And I totally get that. But I think that the single person, the person that just meal prepping for themselves has a great advantage. You have the opportunity to really switch your stuff up because you're making such small portion sizes and grocery stores have gotten real hip now. They got a lot of single serving options for you. So to me it's not really a reasonable excuse anymore because there are ways around it and there's ways to take a meal prep it, just pull out a couple for your week and then freeze the rest. And that can be a prep for later in the month or whenever. So there's ways to get around all of that. So I'm ready for all the excuses. But those are probably the top three or four that I get. Dr. Berry: It's a little incompetent. I love it. I love it. When you started and you made that transition where nutrition was important, where meal prep, was this like a tag team combo where like when you were making the nutrition turn, you said I need to do it while meal prepping or did that come at a different timeframe? Dr. Lisa Folden: That's a good question. They came very close to one another. Yeah. I think within the month or so of me feeling like, hey, I need to really step up my nutrition game. I think I was like, yeah, meal prep is just a natural part. It was sort of a natural progression to me. Because it was like for me, I'm a planner anyway, so it's like, okay, if I'm going to eat right, how am I going to make sure I eat right? It' I can't just rely on what's here because we're always gonna go for what's quick. So I may have all the healthy ingredients in my cabinets and refrigerator. But when I get off work and I'm literally exhausted, I don't want to make that. I don't want to stand in the kitchen. So I will order food. Post mates has been seen like the best and worst creation ever because I will post mate in a second. All of those. So for me, they came very close to each other because I realized even though I want to eat better and I know a little bit more about how to eat better and I shop a little better. If I don't have stuff already prepared, I'm going to still reach out to the stuff that's not great for me. So yeah, so they were close. They were close together. Dr. Berry: Now of course the minds are gonna want to know, what is Dr. Lisa eating when she's meal prep it, right? Like what? Because you do these Google searches, right? They got these immaculate looking meal. Dr. Lisa Folden: Let me just say a little disclosure here and people who will follow my Instagram. They already know this. I wrote my book last year and it's called Healthy Made Easy: The Ultimate Wellness Guide for Busy Moms and I touch on meal prep and exercise and tons of things in there. The sequel to that book, I guess in a way, and this was by popular demand, was a recipe book. And let me just say, I am about three quarters of the way through the recipe book that was supposed to be released in May and it has been more than a notion and it's because of just what you said, it is so hard to put out a recipe book that does not look like the stuff that you see when you Google. And I'm like, so it has been a huge stress to me to where I've been contemplating whether or not I'm going to release it. But yes, it can be overwhelming when you see these great looking whatever to flay. Dr. Berry: They have it lined up and some got chicken. Some type of protein, red meat. Then you got your asparagus you got, and I'm looking like, I look nothing like that. What am I? Okay. Alright. Dr. Lisa Folden: Well here's the thing. Neither do I. My stuff is simple. For the most part, I pretty much, I have this go-to garlic and herb seasoning that I use on almost everything and it's literally like I just buy it in bulk at this point. Because I can, I do not have time to be doing like 15 ingredients dishes. Now there's times when you want to splurge and go crazy or I saw this cool thing, I want to try it, but my regular, no. So my things are simple. At least two weeks out of a month. I am eating egg muffins for breakfast. It's so simple. I literally cracked 24 eggs in a bowl, sprinkle some pepper, and then I make a decision. Is it going to be bell pepper this week? Is it going to be a little Turkey or chicken sausage? What am I going to put in this egg? I scrambled them up and I pour them into a muffin pan, two muffin pans, and I bake them for 20 minutes on three 50. I throw those in a Ziploc bag and my kids and I and my husband, we grab them every morning for bread. I don't even want mine up. Super simple. So everything I do, I try to keep it very basic. When I step outside of the confines of basic, I typically find myself annoyed or frustrated. So I put myself back in. Dr. Berry: Because it takes a little bit longer or is that the? Dr. Lisa Folden: It takes longer. The stress associated with it. It's like, oh I want, you know, you see this on Google and its like, oh this is a beautiful, I want to do that. And it's like, you know, it doesn't have to be that way. Just make some food that's edible and tastes decent and go for it. I tell my kids all the times, we are not living to eat. We are eating to live. Okay. (Yes). So everything is not going to be the very best thing you've ever tasted, but we're going to get through it. I try to make my food tastes good just as a disclaimer. So I try to keep it very simple dinners. I mean we tip, I don't do red meat and it's really just been a preference since I was like 12 years old. So I don't eat red meat. I don't eat pork. But we have a lot of chicken dishes, a lot of ground Turkey or Turkey breasts, dishes, and then a lot of fish. So we do a lot. We have one fish meal at least every week. So this week we had a shrimp stir fry that was so easy. I literally bought the frozen raw de veined and unsheltered shrimp from my local BJ's and then I bought a couple bags of frozen stir fry vegetables. I put them in a Ziploc bag together. I sprinkled some low sodium soy sauce on them. It's my famous garlic and herb seasoning. A little bit of olive oil. I kind of wish the bag around, throw it in the freezer. Yesterday when I came home from work I threw it in a pan and we ate it. It was so easy. Dr. Berry: I love it because you keep knocking down now, time, come on. Dr. Lisa Folden: It doesn't take time if you do it wisely. It doesn't take a lot of time. Some people love cooking. So some people meal prep is cool. It's like an expression of their art and they don't mind being in the kitchen for a long time and making fancy stuff. And I'll say more power to you. I'm not that person. I cook because I have a family. If I did not have a family, I'm sure I will be ordering like hello fresh or one of those. And I often recommend that to people. I'm like, I meal prep. I think it's the best thing ever. But you know what, it's not for every single person in the way that I do it. So if you can afford it and fit it into your budget, order from a digital delivery service that you have researched and found their ingredients and their options to be healthy. Do it that way. And a lot of those, you still have to do the cooking and they just give you the fresh ingredients kind of prepped. So whatever works, I'm here for whatever works for you. And you know, everybody. Dr. Berry: I love it. I love it. I have to make that. Mentally, I see myself, I just haven't made that leap where I got in. Of course, but those who may not know. But you should already know. Like I'm dealing with the fact that like I'm still in my rehab process. I’m only got one leg. I'm just willing around in places, but like I already know mentally, once I get on my feet and figuratively, that's definitely gonna be the direction I want to go and go there. Because it makes so much sense and aware of it, if you prepare. And I love that I'm still thinking about that one line. Because we got to eat. We know we eat. It's a surprise that I'm going to be hungry Wednesday night. I'm going to eat Wednesday night, so if you're going to eat, why don't you just go ahead and prepare the food now and not have to spend that money going out and eating and I'm 100% I here for that and we got here on record that she's going to be finishing her recipe book soon. So we're gonna keep pushing it. My friends know me, I will DM every week and like, hey, what's going on? How's that book going? Everything alright? We waited for the book to come out. So I am going to be on Lunch and Learn community. You don't have to worry about and that you gotta get that book out of it because it I think is definitely needed. Especially if people asking for it. You gotta give it to them. Dr. Lisa Folden: I will. I definitely will. And I appreciate the accountability. So I will. I will get it together. Dr. Berry: Especially in your line of work, when you're working with people and you're working with the whole aspect of wellness, whether it be planning and goal setting. What has been some of the benefits and what has it been some of the successes that you've seen thus far and the whole kind of onus of it? Dr. Lisa Folden: Oh, I mean, it's so many things. A lot of my clients who make the decision to transition to a lifestyle where they're just being accountable and being knowledgeable about what they eat, planning for and things like that. I mean everything. From the very obvious weight loss, inches lost, fitting into clothes they hadn't before to more internal and personal benefits. I have clients that are like, I couldn't walk from the back of the parking lot before, you know what I mean? Or I couldn't do the stairs without my knee rubbing or I couldn't even see myself getting back to the gym. So tons of tons of things when people make a decision that they're gonna change and do something to better themselves no matter how hard it is, that's the key. We've got to get over that hump apart. Because most of the stuff that's worth having is harder to do. So once they get that mindset and we sit down and we set a plan, the positive results are just so many. There's just so many good things. And it'll be like, because everybody is not like, oh I need to be a size five. I got to lose this weight. Some people are very, very genuine about like, I just want to be able to chase my grandkids around. I don't want to be out of breath. You know what I mean? I want to feel better. I don't want to be sleepy every single day, all day. My clients come to me dragging sometimes. You know what I mean? I'm exhausted. I was up to two in the morning working. I didn't have breakfast. I didn't go extra. It's like Jesus, I can't live, that's enough pressing way to live, for so long. So it just so many benefits to just getting that action plan set, getting your life in order. And it translates to everything we do. Every single thing. You are going to be a better worker, you're going to be a better husband, father, wife, friend, everything. You're better when you're taking better care of yourself. And it's a big part of the self-care journey, so big on that. Dr. Berry: I love it. We love self-care here. A love affirmations. We love preempting the inevitable and that's where the meal prepping and Prehab and everything else kind of comes in. And I know you talked, especially with your practice where you focus on you, obviously you have patients you know who have some physical ailments that you take care of and then you kind of deal with the ones. Do you also just take care of patients on just strictly who may not have physical ailments but like, oh I just need to get my wellness together? Dr. Lisa Folden: Absolutely. So I offer just straight wellness. Several people, they will contact me and they will say I want to get into the gym but I'm uncomfortable. I don't really know what to do. Or maybe I just lost a lot of weight and you know, now I want to kind of tell but I don't know where to go or what to do or how to keep it off or you know, I get all kinds of stuff. So yes, I take people straight for wellness. I also offer kind of a newer service is called a Mobility Visit. And this is a whole separate podcast, I'm sure, but I have a true passion for teaching people the benefits of stretching and mobility in their body with regard to the muscles and joint and, Oh God, I want to say maybe 80% of us like don't stretch unless we're maybe about to do something. Dr. Berry: Again, Lunch and Learn community, we do full disclosure here. I had to go to, I went to Disney with the kids, right, because that's what got to do. I'm in Florida. There's one of the rides or that wasn't even a ride. It was just some session that we went to. Where you got to sit like Indian style. I couldn’t even sit Indian style. I didn't even know how hard it was to see. I'm like, oh my, I used to be able to do this. And mind you, I'm going to the gym and I thought I was doing something but clearly I wasn't working the right muscles because I tried it and I couldn't do it. Dr. Lisa Folden: Some of the most athletic strong aesthetically perfect looking people are the tightest and never stretch. It's amazing. So I spent a lot of time offering a new service called the Mobility Visit where you literally come in, have 45 minutes, but I'll do a very quick assessment. And then I take you through guided stretches for every major muscle group in your body. And then we end with a little bit of soft tissue work just at the base of the skull, right in the neck. And people get up and they literally feel like a new person. And it's like this is something you could have almost all done on your own. But it's a service I've had to offer because people don't know how to stretch. They don't know how long the whole stretches. They don't know what position is best to stress stretch particular muscles. So that is one of the wellness services I offer. It has nothing to do with physical therapy or injuries necessarily. It's not a service that they can necessarily cover with their health insurance. But it's a wellness service that I offer. Dr. Berry: Clearly needed. I had to put my leg, let us stretch one leg out because I couldn't not do that any side. I'm like alright, okay. Dr. Lisa Folden: It’s very common though, especially among men. Dr. Berry: I said okay, I got to get myself, need to get this type of some type of yoga, someone need to teach me how to stretch. That's what it was. That like someone just probably gotta like try to do that like some online thing like you gotta probably like formulate like some a video step process. I think that would definitely do well for you. Before I get you out of here. Because again I'm very nosy. (Me, too. That's fine). Let's talk about healthy made easy and I want to talk about all of your business ventures because I'm always impressed by my guests and all the amazing things that they do. Like I said, they helped motivate me, they kind of get me together. Let's talk about that first book, the motivation behind that first book and obviously, and they were going to kind of spill the beans on every, again you talked about the mobility. Let's talk about everything that you're doing. So the people who are listening can know, where you're from here, location wise? Dr. Lisa Folden: So I'm originally from Detroit but I have been living in Charlotte, North Carolina, eleven years. So that's where I am and that's where my practice is. Dr. Berry: Okay, perfect. So what made you write the book? What was the driver forced, you know what, I need to get a book out here. Dr. Lisa Folden: Yeah. It's so funny. So a lot of things. I blog a lot, I write a lot. I've always been into writing, but usually short little things, essays. So what I was finding in my practices, I was repeating a lot of the same information, especially to my moms, to people who were trying to sort of organize their life and combat that primary excuse for healthy living right time. I don't have time to work out. I don't have time to go to the gym. I don't have time to meal prep, my kids this and I do this and work in that and that, dah, dah, dah, dah. All of that sounds like, you know what? I started jotting down some thoughts and I was like, you know what? I need to write a book. So this was maybe early 2018 and put it off, put it off, and then I finally just went to town. I think I wrote the bulk of my book proudly in a two month timeframe because I was literally coming home from work just I was typing on my phone in between patients, you know, so it's called Healthy Made Easy: The Ultimate Wellness Guide for Busy Moms. And I say that, mom's a big market, but it's really for busy people. I mean honestly it's anybody who has a lot going on in their life and doesn't feel like they can make time to exercise. So I have a chapter on meal prepping where I talk about how to make it easy, what to do. I recommend some websites for recipes. I have a chapter on incorporating your children and your family into your new lifestyle, especially when you have picky eaters. Talk about ways to, you know, hide foods and make the meals attractive to children or to your spouse or whomever. I talk about social eating. People don't recognize how challenging it can be to go out with your friends or family when you're trying to eat a certain way. And so I give some very, very simple tips for that. I talk about that. That's mostly the part of the book on nutrition. Second half of the book is all about exercise and fitness. So I have workouts in here, sample workouts for when you're taking your kids to the playground or you have your kids at a sports practice, give suggestions and tips and things you can do. I try to, I have a chapter talking about incorporating fitness into your everyday lifestyle, like making exercise double as family time. So you guys all go for a hike or things like that. Everybody involved because it's a lifestyle. Right? And if you go to my Instagram, you'll see my kids are on there with me exercising all the time because they see me do it and it's just a normal part of their lives. I talk about having navigate gym equipment and I have some very unpopular thoughts on the unpopular opinion on some of the equipment at the gym. I'm more of a home workout person myself, but I do appreciate the gym but only for certain aspects. And then, the last chapter in the book talks about focusing on your fitness without comparing your journeys to other people. We so often, especially as women, and I think men do it as well. We see someone else and it's like, well I want to do that, I want to look like that. This is your body and your process and you need to want to look like you. And whatever byproducts of being healthy and fit is for your body will thankful for that. But trying to formulate a plan to look and be like, someone else is always wrong. So I talk about that in the book. But I'm very proud of it. It's available on Amazon and through my website. It was my little labor of love and it took me a little under a year to complete. So that a good tool for people but especially for women, people with children, pets, if you're taking care of elderly, family members, you got a lot on your plate. It's a good book for you to understand you’re making time for your fitness. My practice here in Charlotte, it's called healthy fit, physical therapy and wellness. And I have a little spell fit, the normal way. It's actually spelled P, H, I, T and that was just a play on words, the P and the T for physical therapy. So, but yet we see clients literally ages zero to a hundred. I see pediatrics adults. I consider myself a generalist. Though I do have a lot of work in the pediatric world as well as low back pain. That's a very, very, very common diagnosis that I get. So I do a lot of lumbar stability and core strengthening, things like that. And I'm here for all of it. I refer out if I feel like you know, what you got going on is a little bit more in depth than I feel like. So have some people I refer out to, but in general I see most patients. So if you go to my website, www.healthyphit.com. You can sign up for my mailing list and I have a free posture packet that you will receive via email. And that's been really good for people because most people don't really know what good posture is. When I see a client and I tell them to, let me see your best posture. What I typically get is some exaggeration of that posture. Dr. Berry: Yes. Lunch and Learn community, I can't see, but mentally I was actually, once she said that I was actually about to sit up. Oh she looking at my posture? I don't know. Dr. Lisa Folden: Whenever someone says posture, I'm like whoa. So I usually see some exaggeration of good posture where they're like in that military stand or you know. Dr. Berry: Is that even a good posture though? Is that? Okay. Dr. Lisa Folden: It is not. So I send out to sign up for my mailing list, I send out sort of a sheet that that shows you some of the common poor posture positions and then the best ideal posture. And the goal is to get as close to that as possible. Our bodies are our bodies. Everybody's not going to be the exact same, but just some general ideas and then some information about areas of back pain and what might be causing themselves. I like to share that information with people for free and that also have on my website, if you go to our shop tab, I have a couple of trainings. I'll have some more up. I have one that I'm working on now that is for like managing chaos in your life. Simplifying and making things smoother. But right now what I have on the site of training for people interested in physical therapy. So I kind of go through that whole process of initial interests through school and then journey into private practice. And then I have another one. Yeah, that's a good one. I was fortunate enough to do a presentation for the North Carolina health occupation, students of America, their conference here. And so I basically did that presentation. So I just rerecorded it, kind of condensed it a little bit and offer it for people on my website, for a much reduced amount. And then also because I do a lot of writing and I have been very blessed to be featured in a lot of great places. Some of my tips on health and fitness. I have a Webinar that is up on my website right now recording that is for people who are interested in that. So if you're interested in having your blogs or you’re just your writing featured in major publications like Oprah or shape magazine or Reader’s Digest. Dr. Berry: Drop the names on it so they know you're not playing out here. Because I read the bio, they might've skipped the bio. Let folks know what just some of the places that you've been in so they know. Dr. Lisa Folden: Thank you. Yeah that webinar is for people. It's just five steps to getting your writing speeches but yes, I have been fortunate enough to be featured in the Oprah magazine. I was a big one for me because you know is Oprah is Oprah. I've been teaching in shape magazine. I've been featured on livestrong.com, Bustle, She knows, oh, there's so many. I mean I don't have my list in front of me, but I love writing and that is why I love writing and it's so cool because I'm writing about health and fitness related things and exercise. And so literally, I mean the topics from, I got emailed an article today from, what is it? I can't even recall, but I was talking about foam rolling. So I love to put my 2 cents out there about some of the latest health trends and give people tips and tools and things from someone who has some experience, with those things. So yeah, if you want to be featured and do that type of work, I have a webinar on that and yeah. And I'll have more, I'll be loading more as weeks go by just having to sit down and make times for recording. Dr. Berry: Too busy. I hear we gotta to get you like a VA or somebody to have direction. Dr. Lisa Folden: Just had that conversation. I totally need one of those. Put that in the show notes. Dr. Berry: We need. Because we can get the second book. You don't free up some of her time. So we need to be able to try to free up some of your time to get the second book out here. Love it, love it, love it. And you talked about the second book so this is going to be essentially a kind of a recipe book just based off the meal plan. Okay. Dr. Lisa Folden: Yap. So it's going to be just basic recipes that I'm going to right now the format I have is sort of a set section for breakfast, recipes, lunch, dinner, and then I'm going to have sort of a bonus section for kids’ lunch ideas. Because I tried to get very creative with my kids because I'm not really the sandwich maker. I get very bored with that. So I try to get creative with their lunches. And so sometimes when I post them to Instagram I have people like what is that? How'd you do that? So I'm like, you know what, let me just throw a few. So I'm thinking maybe five to seven kid lunch idea. So you guys have some options for that too. Because sometimes it's nice to make their stuff fun. You know, we'll do like Turkey dogs skewers with like piece of Turkey dog, some string cheese, Turkey dogs, cool stuff. You know, it doesn't take long. I'm not that mom, I don't have a whole lot of time. But sometimes I try to give them little cutesy ideas for that. So yeah, we're working on that. I'm gonna maybe if I say it out loud, I'm gonna set a tentative deadline of. (Let’s go, let’s go). December, by the end of the year. Dr. Berry: Alright. You heard it here and again, I'm one of the best accountability partners. I'll be in the DMs. I'll be in the comments like, Oh hey, Christmas is coming around. That'd be an amazing Christmas gift. Dr. Lisa Folden: I'm going to get it and I'm going to send you one, that’s what I’m going to do. That gonna be Christmas present from me. Dr. Berry: I love it. I love it. Before I let you go, I always ask my guests, how is what you're doing helping to empower others to take better control of their health? Dr. Lisa Folden: Well, what I hope and what I believe based on some of my client feedback and see that I'm leading by example. You know, I'm not just sitting here giving you a list of impossible things to do that I have not done or tried myself. But I'm actually being very honest. I'm being tried to be very honest about my own shortcomings and my own struggles with this whole journey of wellness and nutrition. Dr. Berry: It is a journey. I think that people need to realize that this isn't like a stopping go. The journey contained some ups. It does have some downs as well. Dr. Lisa Folden: Absolutely. And it's ongoing. So my goal is to just be authentic and transparent and open so that people can see that I'm doing this with them and leading by example. And I'm trying to do my part because my goal is to provide some level of inspiration. If it's just enough to get you at the starting block. We're doing something, we're going somewhere. But I teach people to be accountable for themselves and to recognize that your happiness, your joy, your health is only your responsibility. These kids that we love so much, they will drain every ounce of your energy and they don't care what you eat, okay? They'll find if you eat cheddar cheese popcorn all night and hang out with the people in your life that love you the most, are not necessarily checking for your health and it's your responsibility all the time. So I just try to, I put it back on them. This is your life, your body, your health. You only get to do this once, right? As far as we know, at least in this space. So you gotta do it right? You're trying your best to do it right. And that does not mean perfect. Like I said, we all fall short. We all have tough days, weeks, sometimes a month, right? But the point is you get back up, you keep going. So that's my goal and I hope, you know, and I've had some people say it, but I hope that I continue to inspire people to do this on their own and just and take the reign and say this is my life and I don't have to be governed by what I was taught growing up or what I saw growing up or what the people around me are doing. I can carve out a plan and a direction for my life that I think is better for me and that's it. And I'm not better than the next person because I'm doing it. I'm just trying to be good to me. So. Dr. Berry: And where can people find you? Where can they track you down working stock and make sure when that book comes out, they know where to purchase. And again, remember Lunch and Learn community, all of this information, it will be in the show notes so you don't have to like write it down scurrying down. Now it will be in the show notes. But wait, where can they find a website? All that. I know you said it before, but for our late stragglers. Dr. Lisa Folden: So I love Instagram. I tried to limit my time on there, but I am on Instagram all the time. So that's at healthy phit. H. E. A. L. T. H. Y. P. H. I. T. That's me on Instagram. I'm also on Facebook. I will be honest, I do smaller interactions on Facebook, but everything that I post to Instagram goes to Facebook so you can see my posts there as well. Dr. Berry: Just go to Instagram. Some great pictures. Dr. Lisa Folden: Thank you. And Twitter is the same way. I don't really spend time on there, but everything I say that I can get to my Twitter page goes there as well. So everything is at healthy phit. And then, of course, my website, which is healthyphit.com. You guys can email me if you have questions. info@healthyphit.com and yeah, join my mailing list cause I send out my blogs, which is also on our website and I send out specials and you guys are the first to know and when I do release something or when a webinar's available and things like that. So. Dr. Berry: I love it. I love it. Dr. Lisa, again I want to, and I thought we'd talked earlier but I do want to show the graciousness of being able to take time and get me together. I get our Lunch and Learn community members together on a topic that is so important. Once you Google lifestyle changes, you know, meal prepping, nutrition is such a big thing that pops up and just the fact that you're able to simplify it and really give that personal touch. We really appreciate me taking the time to talk to us today. Dr. Lisa Folden: Thank you. I'm so glad you had me on. I appreciate it and I love your podcast. I will be a continued subscriber and listener. Dr. Berry: I love it. So you have a great day. Again, thank you. And again, guys, remember, she said December. So we gotta, we'll plan a campaign around November time frame to start like just dropping comments, and so we can get a good little Christmas gift like that. That's going to be us. We want that Christmas gift. We want, we want it the book to come out and again, again pick up the book is as on your website now as well as Amazon? (Yes). Right. Okay. I always tell my listeners if you can get a chance, always get the books off the person's website, right? Because Amazon, you know, they try to take all that money, right? Like so you can get the book off the website first, right? If you have to, right. If you gotta get it kindled out, whatever, that’s okay. Dr. Lisa Folden: I understand. We don't care how you get it. Dr. Berry: Just get it. That's probably the goal. We don't care how you get it. Just get it done. And you know, we're gonna appreciate you for it. Thank you again for joining the podcast. Dr. Lisa Folden: Thank you so much. Download the MP3 Audio file, listen to the episode however you like.

Unterstützt durch finally safe GmbH In einem spannendem Interview mit Herrn Diego Sanchez erfahren Sie, liebe IT Profis, wie man mithilfe von maschinellem Lernen Angriffe frühzeitig identifizieren und verhindern kann. Sie wollen selbst mal in einem Interview dabei sein? Oder eine Episode unterstützen? Dann schreiben Sie uns gerne eine E-Mail: ingo.luecker@itleague.de  Kontaktdaten des Interviewpartners: Diego Sanchez sanchez@finally-safe.com Beantwortung von Fragen zu Cyberangriffen: https://www.finally-safe.com/anfrage/ Security News Artikel und Analyse: https://www.finally-safe.com/nachrichten/ BSI Empfehlungen: https://www.allianz-fuer-cybersicherheit.de/ACS/DE/_/downloads/BSI-CS_134.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=4   Buchempfehlungen: BLACKOUT - Morgen ist es zu spät: Roman von Marc Elsberg: https://amzn.to/2KYxIH8 ZERO – Sie wissen, was Du tust: Nachfolger von Blackout, auch vom Marc Elsberg: https://amzn.to/2V3NbJN Risiken der Industrie 4.0 – Eine Strukturierung von Bedrohungsszenarien der Smart Factory, Michael Hertel, 2015 I: Herzlich willkommen liebe IT-Profis zur heutigen Folge des IT-Manager Podcast zum Thema: Wie kann maschinelles Lernen Smartfactorys vor Cyberattacken schützen? Ja, ich weiß. Wir könnten nun eigentlich drei Episoden davon machen. Was versteht man unter maschinellem Lernen? Was sind Smartfactorys? Und wie muss ich mir Cyberattacken vorstellen? Doch heute haben wir dazu im Interview Diego Sanchez als Spezialisten zu diesem Thema. Herzlich willkommen! Stellen Sie sich doch bitte kurz selbst den IT-Profis vor.   B: Ja, hallo. Mein Name ist Diego Sanchez. Ich bin Mitgründer der Firma Finally Save aus Essen. Ich selbst bin Wirtschaftsingenieur und seit der Gründung 2015 verantwortlich dafür, die Herausforderungen und Problemstellungen unserer Kunden und Interessenten zu identifizieren, zu verstehen und gemeinsam dafür Lösungen anzubieten. Dabei arbeiten wir immer eng im Team mit unseren Technikern und Entwicklern zusammen, um die passende Lösung mit Hilfe unserer Sicherheitslösung zur Erkennung von Cyberangriffen zur Verfügung zu stellen.   I: Ja, ich hatte unser heutiges Thema zu Beginn schon erwähnt. Was können wir und die Hörer uns denn ganz konkret darunter eigentlich vorstellen?   B: Also bei unserem Thema geht es darum, dass die Fabriken immer häufiger Ziel von Cyberangriffen werden. Ähnlich wie wir das in der letzten Podcast-Spezialfolge gehört haben. Wir stellen eine Technologie her, die ich heute beschreibe, um solche Angriffe frühzeitig zu erkennen. Damit schnell Gegenmaßnahmen ergriffen werden können, um Schäden entweder komplett zu vermeiden oder die Auswirkungen zu vermindern. Denn oft kann es zum Beispiel im medizinischen Bereich oder bei der Versorgung von Energie und Wasser, auch um Menschenleben gehen. Neben den Cyberangriffen haben wir noch die beiden Themen Smartfactory und maschinelles Lernen, die ich einmal an einem Beispiel erklären möchte. Wenn Sie sich vorstellen, ein Hersteller von chemischen Produkten, wie zum Beispiel Medikamenten. Ein solcher Hersteller verfügt über Produktionsanlagen, mit denen er verschiedene, chemische Stoffe kombiniert, dass am Ende das Medikament erzeugt wird. Diese Anlagen sind oft riesig und hochautomatisiert. Was bedeutet, dass Computer die einzelnen Prozessschritte steuern. Dazu kommt, dass viele erzeugte Daten, wie zum Beispiel Temperaturen, Drehzahlen, Schwingungen, dafür verwendet werden, um Vorhersagen über die Haltbarkeit von Maschinenteilen zu treffen. Was man predictive maintenance nennt. Oder um ganze Abläufe zu verbessern. Das bedeutet, dass Maschinen immer mehr zu eigenständigen, leistungsfähigen Computern werden, die Daten miteinander austauschen. Das Ganze nennt man Smartfactory oder die intelligente Fabrik. Maschinelles Lernen, oder auch Machine Learning genannt, ist ein Teilbereich der Künstlichen Intelligenz. Die Verfahren wurden schon in den fünfziger Jahren entwickelt, konnten aber erst in den letzten Jahren richtig nutzbar gemacht werden. Einmal durch die steigenden Datenmengen, die man benötigt, um solche Systeme anzulernen. Zum anderen auch durch die immer leistungsfähigeren Prozessoren. Kurz gesagt werden aus Datenbeständen durch Algorithmen Modelle erzeugt, um Muster und Gesetzmäßigkeiten aufzudecken. Anders ausgedrückt: Es wird künstliches Wissen aus Erfahrung generiert. Das Machine Learning verwenden wir nun, um die Daten, der vielfältigen komplexen Abläufe der Smartfactory intelligent auszuwerten. Zum Beispiel die Kommunikation zu und zwischen Maschinen, um Muster und Regeln abzuleiten. Das Ziel dabei ist es, Entscheidungen zu treffen. Was im Verkehr ist normal? Was ist anormal? Was ist gewollt oder nicht gewollt? Wo passieren verdeckte Dinge, die nicht vorgesehen sind? All das sind Hinweise oder können Hinweise sein auf versteckt ablaufende Angriffe.   I: Welche Vor- beziehungsweise Nachteile gibt es denn gerade bei der Anwendung von Maschinenlernen in Smartfactorys? Weil, Sie haben jetzt ja viele Bereiche dargestellt und das ja auch so ein bisschen bildhaft gemacht, wie man sich das tatsächlich in der ja Produktionsanlage eines Herstellers auch so vorstellen kann, wie da die Maschinen miteinander agieren. Aber welche Vor- und Nachteile gibt es denn da konkret beim Einsatz solcher Techniken?   B: Ich fange zuerst mal bei ein paar Nachteilen an. Selbstlernende Systeme sind immer nur so gut, wie auch die Datengrundlage, die sie erhalten. Wenn zum Beispiel ein bereits infiziertes Netzwerk als Grundlage genommen wird, kann das natürlich die Ergebnisse verfälschen. Zudem können auch dynamische Veränderungen wie kurzfristige Änderungen in Produktionsabläufen die Interpretation der Systeme beeinflussen. Was man dagegen tun kann? Wichtig ist es, sich nicht zu hundert Prozent auf die Algorithmen zu verlassen sondern diese immer im Zusammenspiel mit Experten zu verwenden. Solche Systeme also als Assistenten zu nutzen, um die gewünschten Ergebnisse zu erzielen. Kommen wir nun zu den Vorteilen. Die schieren Datenmengen, komplexe Muster und Abläufe können von Menschen zwar punktuell erfasst und interpretiert werden, jedoch nicht kontinuierlich zu jedem Zeitpunkt und voll automatisch. Dadurch werden Machine Learning Algorithmen benötigt, die diese Aufgabe übernehmen und mit der Hilfe von Menschen ständig optimiert werden. Zusätzlich verwenden Angreifer selbst hochautomatisierte Systeme und Software, um möglichst unbemerkt in Fabriken einzudringen und sich festzusetzen. Diese Änderungen und Hinweise können so klein sein, dass sie uns Menschen gar nicht auffallen. Zum Beispiel kann es die Veränderung jeder zweitausendsten Verbindung einer Maschine im Datennetz sein. Wir entwickeln Software, die Unternehmen hilft, ihre Datenströme zu nutzen, um Schaden von der Firma abzuwehren. Dazu müssen sie verstehen, wie und wohin die Daten fließen, die in jeder Sekunde entstehen. Das Ziel dabei ist es, Firmen vor Spionage und Manipulation zu schützen, die das Überleben der Firma oder das von Menschenleben bedrohen könnten.   I: Okay. Das hört sich echt sehr komplex an, ehrlich gesagt, das ganze Thema auch. Gerade natürlich wenn man dann in solche Sachen reingehen muss. Das kann ich mir gut vorstellen, dass da viele Dinge vor allen Dingen analysiert werden müssen. Und wahrscheinlich dann auch über einen längeren Zeitraum. Woher kommt denn eigentlich Ihre Expertise in Ihrem Fachgebiet?   B: Ja, das ist richtig. Wir haben mit klassischen Netzwerkanalysen bereits vor 14 Jahren am Institut für Internetsicherheit der Westfälischen Hochschule begonnen. Und in Zusammenarbeit mit dem BSI immer weiter entwickelt. Als in den letzten Jahren die Digitalisierung im Bereich Produktion und die Vernetzung von Maschinen zunahm, haben wir begonnen, uns mit diesem Bereich zu beschäftigen. In dem es im Kern ja auch um Datenströme geht. Da haben wir festgestellt: Maschinenkommunikation ist sehr gleichmäßig und folgt klaren Mustern. Also eine ideale Grundlage für ein Machine Learning, das wir zuvor schon in den klassischen Netzwerken eingesetzt haben. Mir persönlich hilft zudem als gelernter Wirtschaftsingenieur das Wissen über Produktionsabläufe und Kennzahlen, um Firmen besser zu verstehen. Um den Firmen und Kunden besser zu helfen, mit unserer Technik die Ziele zu erreichen. Die Ziele sind vor allem: Hohe Verfügbarkeiten, keine Unterbrechungen, Flexibilität der Produktionsanlagen, Stichwort Nullfehlerproduktion, und immer das Verhältnis zwischen Kosten, Zeit und Qualität auszubalancieren. Für viele Firmen ist die Sicherheit oder Cybersecurity immer eher ein unterstützender Faktor, der jedoch schnell zum Stolperstein für die übergeordneten Ziele werden kann.   I: Und gibt es besondere Tipps zu dem Thema, die Sie unseren Zuhörern geben können?   B: Ich habe mal zwei Tipps mitgebracht. Der erste: Man sollte niemals Systeme einfach vernetzen, ohne vorher kritisch die Sicherheit zu hinterfragen. Das gilt zum Beispiel auch im privaten Bereich, wenn man an Alexa, Fitnesstracker oder Smart Home Anwendungen denkt. Das andere ist: Man sollte sich nie nur auf die Technik verlassen, sondern immer auch den gesunden Menschenverstand einschalten. Zum Beispiel sollte man sich fragen, ob eine (Heizungssteuerung?) unbedingt frei im Internet verfügbar sein sollte für jedermann. #00:08:16-0# Oder dass man nicht immer auf jeden Link in der Email klickt. Im Zweifel Experten ansprechen, fragen, recherchieren. Das geht meistens auch schon kostenlos.   I: Ja super. Vielen Dank für diese Tipps. Das ist immer großartig. Das kann man immer auf jeden Fall mitnehmen. Und gerade bei der ganzen Verbreitung von solchen Systemen wie Alexa und Co. muss man ja tatsächlich mal hinterfragen: Macht das wirklich so viel Sinn? Erleichtert es das Leben so ungemein, dass es wirklich erforderlich ist? Und was hole ich mir damit eigentlich auch für Sicherheitslücken eigentlich ins Haus? Gibt es bestimmte Mehrwerte, die Sie den Hörern noch zur Verfügung stellen können? Also gewisse Checklisten oder andere Dinge, wo auch die Hörer einfach nochmal ein bisschen ins Eingemachte tiefer steigen können?   B: Ja, sehr gerne. Wir haben drei Punkte nochmal mitgebracht, die auch verlinkt sind. Und zwar zum einen Security News, die wir regelmäßig erstellen. Die man auf unsere Website findet oder über unseren Newsletter erhält. Darin sind auch Analysen zu Cyberangriffen enthalten. Als zweites beantworten wir sehr gerne Fragen zu Auffälligkeiten, zu Angriffen. Da kann man uns sehr gerne kontaktieren. Und als drittes gibt es auch sehr viele BSI Empfehlungen. Zum Beispiel haben wir verlinkt einen Leitfaden und eine Empfehlung wie man Anomalieerkennung und Monitoring in Prozessnetzwerken verwenden kann.   I: Ja, die Informationen dazu, werden wir dann natürlich dann den Hörern in den Shownotes zur Verfügung stellen. Da packen wir die Links rein. Da kann man das jederzeit auch aufrufen und sich im Detail mal in Ruhe anschauen. Gibt es denn zu diesem Thema auch Buchempfehlungen? Wir haben immer ein bisschen die Situation bei anderen Themen, dass Buchempfehlungen manchmal gar nicht ausgesprochen werden, weil die IT-Branche sich ja so dermaßen schnell weiter entwickelt. Wie sieht es denn hier zu dem Thema hier mit den Cyberattacken der Smartfactorys aus?   B: Ja, da habe ich auch mal wieder drei Dinge mitgebracht, und zwar ein Klassiker: Das Buch Blackout von dem Autor Marc Elsberg. Das ist schon etwas älter, von 2013, aber das ist heute genauso aktuell und zeigt dieses sehr abstrakte Thema IT, Cybersicherheit, was die Auswirkung auf das wahre Leben ist. Also immer noch eine Empfehlung, das Buch. Oder auch der Nachfolger mit dem Namen Zero von dem gleichen Autor. Und eine dritte Empfehlung, etwas technischer, ist das Buch Risiken der Industrie 4.0. Eine Strukturierung von Bedrohungsszenarien der Smartfactory von Michael Härtel.   I: Ja auch zu diesen drei Büchern stellen wir dann natürlich entsprechende Links ein, damit man da direkt sich die Bücher auch besorgen kann. Ja, aufgrund des Interviews hier gibt es ein besonderes Angebot für unsere IT-Profis, um diese Lösung aus Ihrem Hause auch nutzen zu können. Sie sagen ja vorhin, dass Sie dort eine ganz spezielle Technik einsetzen. Haben Sie da was Spezielles für unsere Hörer im Angebot?   B: Ja, wir würden unseren Hörern gerne eine Mehrzweckanalyse anbieten, mit unserem System. Das kann man sich als Suppliance vorstellen. Und das Ganze bei einer Dauer von 60 Tagen. Also im Grunde 2 Monaten für einen halbierten Preis von 3.600 Euro. Und das Angebot halten wir aufrecht bis Ende des Jahres 2019.   I: Das heißt für 3.600, das heißt statt normalerweise 7.200, weil Sie sagten eben zum halben Preis. Und ich würde dann den Hörern noch hinzugeben: Je nachdem, welcher Unternehmensgröße Sie angehören, sollten Sie da immer nochmal prüfen, welche Möglichkeiten einer bundesweiten oder EU-Förderung Sie dort auch in Anspruch nehmen können. Da muss sich immer jeder mal schlau machen, in welchem Bundesland er da auch sitzt und was es da gerade für ihn gibt. Und je nach Größe des Unternehmens ist da auch schnell mal Schluss mit einer Förderung, wenn man bestimmte Umsatzgrenzen dort bereits durchbricht. Ja, vielen Dank Herr Sanchez für dieses tolle Interview und die Einblicke in diese Dinge. Auch wie diese ganzen Sachen ineinandergreifen und welche Möglichkeiten es dort heute gibt mit Maschinellem Learning dort in den Smartfactorys tatsächlich auch solche Cyberattacken abwehren und ja das Ganze im Prinzip auch damit schützen kann. Indem vorher gut ausgewertet hat, was da eigentlich so stattfindet, um dann natürlich die entsprechenden Sicherheitsmechanismen zu etablieren. Vielen Dank Ihnen!

Unterstützt von DeskCenter Solutions AG Manuel Schick können Sie unter der E-Mail-Adresse m.schick@deskcenter.com erreichen. Darüber hinaus können Interessenten an dem Webcasts teilnehmen: https://www.deskcenter.com/eventkategorie/webinar/ Unter diesem Link findet man regelmäßig die aktuellen Termine der Webinare. Auf der DMEA (09.-11-04.) in Berlin findet man den DeskCenter Solutions AG Stand D-108 in Halle 1.2. Hier ist auch noch ein Link dazu: https://www.deskcenter.com/events/dmea-april-2019-in-berlin/   Sie wollen selbst mal in einem Interview dabei sein oder eine Episode unterstützen? Dann schreiben Sie uns gerne eine E-Mail. ingo.luecker@itleague.de I: Herzlich willkommen, liebe IT-Profis, zu einer neuen Folge des IT-Manager Podcasts! Heute zu Gast im Interview ist Manuel Schick von der DeskCenter Solutions AG zum Thema MDM, EMM, auch unter anderem bekannt als eine Abkürzung für Mobile Device Management, sozusagen die einfache und zentrale Verwaltung von mobilen Endgeräten, könnte man es subsumieren. Herr Schick, herzlich willkommen zum heutigen Podcast hier! Erzählen Sie doch ein wenig über sich, damit die IT-Profis, die uns gerade zu hören, ein besseres Bild von Ihnen bekommen.   B: Ja. Vielen Dank für die Einladung zum IT-Manager Podcast! Mein Name ist Manuel Schick, meine erste Berührung mit der IT-Welt hatte ich bereits 1996, wo man mit etwas Glück das Internet mit einem schnellen 56K-Modem erreichen konnte. Da Lächeln die Leute heute, weil da erreicht man ja mit jedem Smartphone deutlich höhere Raten. PCs haben mich von Anfang an fasziniert. Nach meiner Ausbildung zum Fachinformatiker Systemintegration hatte ich die großartige Möglichkeit erhalten, Kindern und Jugendlichen in Schulen die IT-Welt näher zu bringen, fliegendes Klassenzimmer, digitale Schultaschen oder Schulverwaltungen auch ans Netz zu bringen. Um ein wenig zu nennen von den Projekten, die ich hatte. Nach einem Jahrzehnt ging es dann weiter im Bereich Security bei der Firma Sophos. Aus meiner Wahrnehmung wird das Thema Sicherheit oft nicht so tief durchdacht oder durchdrängt, und das passiert oft dann, dass man sich damit tiefer beschäftigt, wenn eigentlich das Kind in den Brunnen gefallen ist und man einen Vorfall hat, und dann wird hektisch reagiert, man muss ja heute auch Meldungen machen nach Gesetzeslage, und dann kommt oft auch die Ablehnung zu bestimmten Themen oder Neuerungen, aus Angst. Danach bin ich dann in ein relativ neues IT-Thema gewechselt, MDM, EEM, oder UEM, wie man das auch immer nennen mag, wo man das Thema hat, sich mit mobilen Geräten zu beschäftigen. Da habe ich angefangen bei einem Hersteller im Support, um zu verstehen, wie Technologien funktionieren, mit welchen Herausforderungen, Problemen sich IT-Admins beschäftigen müssen, damit sie das richtig im Unternehmen/ mobile Geräte als Arbeitsgeräte einsetzen können. Danach bin ich dann in das MDM-Consulting gewechselt und bin heute auch im Produktmanagement bei der Firma DeskCenter Solutions AG tätig. Das hat die großartige Möglichkeit, dass ich mich auch mit dem Produkt anders auseinandersetzen kann, dass ich aus den Erfahrungen mit den Admins ein Stück weit auch das Produkt positionieren kann, Schwerpunkte definieren kann, auf was das ausgerichtet ist, und eben so da auch einen gewissen Einfluss nehmen kann, wie das Hauptziel für DeskCenter, das UEM, erreicht werden kann, dass wir zwei Welten zusammenführen im Management, die klassische Welt und die mobilen Geräte. Ja.   I: Ja. Okay. Cool! In Ihrer Vorstellung sind ja dann doch tatsächlich sehr viele Abkürzungen eben genannt worden. Also ich hatte es ja auch eingangs schon zum Thema gesagt, MDM, EMM, UEM. Wofür stehen diese Abkürzungen? Was muss sich der Hörer darunter vorstellen?   B: Okay. Angefangen hat alles mit dem Begriff MDM, zurückblickend, Mobile Device Management, auf Deutsch mobile Geräteverwaltung, da geht es im ersten Schritt darum, das sind ja/ so dass mobile Geräte im Alltag oder auch im Business-Alltag genutzt werden, Smartphones hat ja fast jeder heute, und der Chef will es dienstlich nutzen und auch der Mitarbeiter, und der erste Schritt ist einfach, es geht darum, dass man so eine Art Inventar von dem Gerät haben will, dass man also eine mobile Geräteverwaltung braucht für diese Geräte. Die werden dann dort registriert und dann kann man erst mal sehen, was ist das für ein Gerät, was da im Einsatz ist, welche Apps sind da drauf, solche Daten sammelt man da im ersten Schritt. In einem weiteren Schritt geht es dann darum, Mobile Application Management, MAM, dass man eben auch aus einer Suite heraus mobiler Lösungen Apps installieren, deinstallieren oder auch sogar verbieten oder explizit erlauben kann mit Black- und Whitelisting. Dann ein nächster Schritt ist auch, dass natürlich Mobile Content Management, MCM, dass man eben auch im Außendienst vielleicht nicht nur Daten mitnehmen will auf einem Gerät, sondern auf aktuelle Daten im Unternehmen zurückgreifen will, dass da aktuelle Lizenzangaben liegen mit Softwarepreisen, dass man die auch on-the-fly direkt abholen kann, und da ist es wichtig, dass auf diesen Geräten auch der Zugriff gesteuert wird, dass man dann ein Identity und Access Management hat für den User, dass man sehen kann, welche Geräte mit welchen Sicherheitsregeln (Werten? #00:05:21-7#) in das Unternehmen auf Daten zugreifen wollen. Und jetzt zum Schluss sind wir an dem höchsten Punkt der Entwicklung, dass wir eine einheitliche Verwaltungssoftware wollen von der klassischen Welt, den PCs, Desktops, Laptops, und der mobilen Welt, dass wir das in einer Oberfläche zusammengefasst haben wollen. Das wird dann UEM, Unified Endpoint Management genannt. Und ich denke, da kommen in Zukunft auch noch so persönliche Sachen dazu, die wir heute noch im Privatbereich nutzen, in Kleidungsstücken, Brillen, Uhren, aber auch das denke ich wird kurzfristig auch im Arbeitsalltag Einzug erhalten. Vielleicht nicht in der Form, wie wir das heute können, sondern dass dann in einer Brille vielleicht so ein Weg ist, wie man im Lager bestimmte Sachen schneller finden kann. Ja.   I: Okay. Das hört sich ja sehr umfangreich an, aber mal sehr schön dargestellt, auch wie es im Prinzip den Weg vom klassischen MDM für das nur Mobile Device Management über diese einzelnen Bereiche, Segmente, bis hin zum UEM ja gefunden hat. Sie können unseren Hörern ja sicherlich am besten mal auch erzählen, welche Vor- und Nachteile bilden denn eigentlich der Einsatz solcher MDM- beziehungsweise EMM-Lösungen?   B: Nachteil ist, denke ich, wenn man das nicht einsetzt, dann hat man schon Schwierigkeiten, überhaupt den Gesetzen konform zu bleiben. Da gibt es ja die DSGVO-Verordnung seit letztem Jahr, nach der ist man ja verpflichtet, dass eben Geräte in einer bestimmten Zeit, entweder habe ich die verloren oder gestohlen bekommen, inhaltlich löschen können muss. Da geht es ja um Userdaten, die da drauf sein können. Und das ist ganz abstrakt, schon einfach nur eine E-Mail-Adresse vom Kollegen oder von einem Kunden, und das hat ja fast jeder auf dem Telefon drauf, oder im Telefonbuch die Telefonnummer. Das kann ich mit einer solchen MDM-Lösung als Administrator eines Unternehmens gewährleisten, dass ich diese Geräte inhaltsmäßig auf Factory Reset zurücksetzen kann, aus der Ferne, in einer sehr kurzen Zeit von wenigen Minuten. Und dann technisch ist es ja so, da ist ein klarer Vorteil, das sind ja mobile Endgeräte, die wurden primär als Verbrauchergerät entwickelt, die waren ja eigentlich Consumer-Ware für Privatleute, als sie rauskamen, und jetzt ist das Ziel, da sie ja immer mehr und tiefer Einzug erhalten in die Businesswelt, dass man die auch managen können muss aus der Sicht von einem Administrator, und hier gibt es jetzt eben verschiedene Ansätze, das ist ja so, dass man bestimmte Compliance-Richtlinien erfüllen muss in einem Unternehmen, dass da bestimmte Daten drauf sein dürfen oder nicht, auch Apps, und dass man da nicht will, dass zum Beispiel private und dienstliche Daten auch vermischt werden. Und hier gibt es eben verschiedene Ansätze, die eine MDM-Lösung in Zusammenarbeit mit den Technologien, die die Betriebssystemhersteller von den mobilen Geräten zur Verfügung stellen, zusammenzuarbeiten. Wir haben ja einmal als Technologie von Apple das DEP und VPP und Android Enterprise, wo wir einfach Schutzmechanismen hinterlegt haben, dass wir in der MDM-Software konfigurieren können, dass der User weniger Admin-Rechte hat oder auch ein Telefon nicht mehr resetten kann, dass diese Funktionen ausgeblendet werden, und dass er sich in dieser MDM-Software auch nicht deregistrieren kann. Das ist also so, dass hier das Augenmerk darauf gerichtet werden kann, dass der Administrator wie bei dem PC seiner Aufgabe nachkommen kann, diese mobilen Geräte sicher zu verwalten und einzustellen, dass es eben Arbeitsgeräte sind und weniger Spielzeug in Anführungszeichen oder Geräte, die man sich als User customizen kann. Weil ja einfach Sicherheit auch ein wichtiges Thema ist oder Herausforderung, diese zu gewährleisten, dass man eben Kontrolle hat auf Daten auf den Geräten. Ich denke, das ist ein sehr umfangreiches Thema, es gibt auch verschiedene Lösungen, und was eine MDM im allgemeinen macht, sie kann vorhandene Lösungen, die beim Kunden da sind im Bereich E-Mail-Server, VPN, einfach von den Einstellungen auf die Geräte mit Parametern darstellen, dass wir die dort ablegen können, einmalig, und der User im besten Fall nur noch sein Passwort eingibt, um dann bestimmte Dienste abrufen zu können. Ja. Das passt.   I: Ja. Perfekt. Hört sich dann ja doch sehr komplex an, und auch wenn Sie vorhin sagten, es gibt eigentlich keine Nachteile bei solchen Sachen, würde ich dann immer anführen, es kostet zwar Geld und Zeit, aber ansonsten bringt einem natürlich so eine Lösung wirklich auch nur Vorteile, um sauber und sicher auch das Ganze konfiguriert und eingesetzt zu haben. Woher nehmen Sie denn eigentlich die Erkenntnisse für diese umfangreichen Lösungen?   B: Für mich ist MDM, seit ich da eingestiegen bin, ein sehr spannendes Thema, weil die Geräte immer mehr Einzug in unseren Alltag haben und das losgelöste Arbeiten von Ort und Zeit möglich machen in unserer Welt, die dadurch smarter wird. Bei der Firma DeskCenter arbeite ich im Produktmanagement sehr eng mit der Entwicklung zusammen, habe da immer Zugriff auf die neuen Features und Funktionen, die auch von den Betriebssystemherstellern kommen, sodass ich da im regen Austausch bin, und denke, dass wir so auch die Welt der Administratoren mit dem Tool vereinfachen können, einfach smarter zu machen und vieles zu automatisieren.   I: Das heißt, Sie haben da ein eigenes Tool von DeskCenter Mobile im Einsatz, mit dem Sie halt Ihren Kunden dann helfen können?   B: Genau.   I: Okay. Gibt es besondere Tipps zu dem Thema?   B: Das Thema MDM ist sehr umfangreich und das birgt natürlich auch verschiedene Fallstricke, wenn man das anfängt einzuführen und sich Gedanken macht. Ich denke, wichtig ist auf Kundenseite, sich zu überlegen, welche Ziele habe ich als Kunde, was muss ich aus Unternehmenssicht oder aus Sicht von der Sicherheit erreichen, und dann mit einem Anbieter ins Rennen zu gehen, weil sonst wird das sehr schwierig, weil es einfach sehr viele Möglichkeiten gibt, was man damit machen kann, deswegen muss man einfach am besten Use Cases mitbringen, was man aus der eigenen Sicht erreichen möchte.   I: Ja, klar. Gerade use-case-basiert kann man natürlich solche Themen immer am besten angehen und umsetzen dann auch. Gibt es denn zu diesem Thema, das machen wir immer ganz gerne, Buchempfehlungen, die Sie nennen können?   B: Leider nein. Da sich die IT-Welt so schnell wandelt und gerade im Mobile-Bereich, da gibt es eigentlich ständig Neuerungen auch vom Betriebssystem, Apple bringt ja Neuerungen raus und Google auch, da gibt es halt Möglichkeiten, dass man sich vielleicht versucht, um diese in Erfahrung zu bringen, bei den entsprechenden Developer-Seiten zu registrieren, oder manchmal eine gute Beratung ist besser als ein Buch.   I: Ja, das stimmt natürlich. Das kenne ich auch aus der Erfahrung sehr gut. Wie können denn die Zuhörer, wenn sie jetzt mehr zu diesem Thema erfahren wollen, wie können die Zuhörer dann mehr dazu erfahren beziehungsweise Sie erreichen, gibt es da irgendwas, Kontaktdaten oder gibt es da eventuell auch Veranstaltungen, wo im Prinzip die Zuhörer sich das dort mal näher anhören und anschauen können?   B: Ja, gerne. Also man kann mich gerne über die Firmendaten kontaktieren per E-Mail oder per Telefonnummer. Das andere ist, wir bieten auch Webcasts zu dem Thema MDM aktuell an oder auch auf einer kommenden Messe besuchen, also wir sind jetzt zum Beispiel auf der DMEA in Berlin im April vertreten mit einem Stand, einfach vorbeikommen, Hallo sagen, ins Gespräch kommen.   I: Ja. Super! Dann werden wir natürlich Ihre Kontaktdaten und auch die Infos mal zu dem Webcast und zu den Veranstaltungen mit in die Show Notes reinnehmen, dann fällt es unseren Zuhörern einfacher, darauf zuzugreifen. Vielen Dank auf jeden Fall, Herr Schick, für dieses tolle Interview mit Ihnen zu dem Thema!

节目组: The World Says 世界说 节目名称: Sherlock returnsI: Hello everyone, welcome to the world says from the VOE foreign language station. This is Iris.I: Hey, Sherlock, you look very tired today.S: Of course, like you, I probably enjoy my holiday.I: What do you mean,you just said me?S: Yes. (Hold)Obviously, your eyes have bloodshot, indicating that you are likely to stay up all night. And I observed that cocoon on your right middle finger.Are you staying up late to study?I: Half right, but you are still far from a detective. After having watched Sherlock for four seasons, I think there is a huge difference compared with the first quarter.Sherlock, do you remember the scene that Holmes' first met with Dr.Watson?S: Yes, of course, Sherlock is capable of judging a person's past, present and their future only by observing.:He has a word: As ever you see but not observe. To you the world remains an impenetrable [ɪmˈpenɪtrəbl] mystery whereas to me it is an open book. Hard logic versus romantic whimsy. I: Well,it's hard to understand.Maybe some audience know nothing about this.S:let's play a scene which in this drama.Could you do a role play with me, Iris? You are Dr. Watson, and I am Sherlock.J: let me be Stanford.I: Okay! 3, 2, 1, action!J: This is an old mate of mine, John Watson.S: Afghanistan or Iraq?I: Afghanistan. Sorry, how did you know?S: How do you feel about the violin?I: Sorry, what?S: I play the violin when I'm thinking. Sometimes I don't talk for days on end. Would that bother you? Potential flat mates should know the worst about each other.I: Oh, you told him me about me?J: Not a word.I: Then who said anything about flat mates?S: I did.I told Mike this morning that I must be a difficult man to find a flat matefor. Now here he is after lunch with an old friend clearly home from military service in Afghanistan [æf'ɡænɪstæn]. It wasn't a difficult leap.I: This is their first meeting.It is amazing, isn't it?S:Let me explain the reason for his inference.Tanned face, but no tan above the wrists. That meansDr.Watson have been abroad, but not sunbathing.I: And his haircut and the way he hold himself said military.The conversation when he entered the room bit different from day which says trained at Bart's. So he is an army doctor, obviously.I: His limp is really bad when walking, but don't ask for a chair when hestands, like he already forgotten about it. That means the limp is at least partly psychosomatic[ˌsaɪkəʊsəˈmætɪk].S: That says the original circumstances of the injury were traumatising. Wounded in action then. So, where does an army doctor get himself a suntan and wounded in action these days? It must be Afghanistan or Iraq.Let's go on say something about Dr.Waston.In Sherlock ways to say,he is my best friend.I: agreed.We can observe this in season4,when his sister ask him using pistol to kill his brother or Dr.Waston,this choice is difficult for him, and finally, had to choose suicide.S:Have to say that the fourth quarter tells a lot of their friendship.I waited for two years.Thanks to God, they returned.S:I was really happy when I heard the news. en-I think there is quite a lot of differences between this fashion sherlock and the classical one.He is fashion,he use blackberry,sent masagers.He takes taxi instead of gharry.He writes blog,he even became a hit on twitter.I: But the same thing is that he is thin and tall,sagacious and shouws quick first response all the time.He is also good at biology and his incredible outsight shocks the audience all the time.S: The change of the new sherlock dosen't make us fell uncomfortable, but the quick plot and the mixture of many stories of the novel in every episode makes an impression to Holmes fans.All of the changes show that this Holmes belongs to our times.I: That's right, but many Chinese fans were in a fever after they saw the first episode premiere on the BBC's official website. S: I've heard that. According to the BBC's official website, the titles of the three episodes in season 4 are “The Six Thatchers,” “The Lying Detective” and “The Final Problem.” After the debut of “The Six Thatchers,” disappointing voices emerged on Chinese review platforms such as Douban slid to 8.7 from a 9.3, and then to 8.5 in the next day. I: But why? I think it's still very amazing and surprising.S: Disappointment mainly stemmed from the lack of an appearance from the series big villain Moriarty, whose death was broght into question after the end of season 3, and the death of a major character. After Dr Watson's wife Mary dies after taking a bullet for Sherlock (Benedict Cumberbatch), Chinese netizens took to social media to express their disappointment : “Sure enough, there is no place for an actress in this UK TV series.”I: Although most Sherlock fans in China love the relationship between Sherlock and Watson and joked that the character of Mary was an "interloper" at first, they later found themselves falling for her smart and humorous personality S：In the eyes of many Chinese fans, the character's abrupt death was assurance that the UK TV series "really hates heterosexuality."I: it's funny!S: The Sherlock series has long had a large fan base in China. When David Cameron visited China in late 2013, some netizens left comments on his Weibo account asking him to urge the BBC to produce more episodes of Sherlock.And iris what's the reply?I:"I know that Benedict is hugely important in China. He's a big star. Sorry I can't tell them what to do. It's an independent company," then the UK Prime Minister replied.S: Chinese President Xi Jinping listed Sherlock as an example of an outstanding British production along with the Harry Potter series and TV drama Downton Abbey during his visit to London in 2015.I: Let's review some classic linesThe wheel turns, nothing is ever new. 时过境迁，烂事依然。S: You, don't talk out loud.You lower the IQ of the whole street.You, face the other way. You are putting me off. 你，不要说话，你拉低了整条街的智商。你，转过去，你影响我思考了。I: All lives end,all hearts are broken.Caring is not an advantage! 生命终有尽头，人心终要破碎，太在意可不是什么优点！S: Love is a dangerous disadvantage.(爱是种危险的劣势）I: Every fairy tale needs a good old-fashioned villain. 每个童话都需要一个经典大反派。S: That's all for today's listening . Goodbye. 感谢制作苏鑫感谢制作王紫丞节目监制：周宸聿 编辑： 张燚铭 余若天 播音： 张燚铭 余若天 制作：苏鑫

Nasir and Matt close out the week by discussing the validity of the noncompete agreements Jimmy John's has employees sign. They then answer the question, "I own a bunch of restaurants and we are considering expansion. Is there anything from a legal standpoint that I should be considering that's different from what I have now?" Vote: Is Jimmy John's Overrated? [yop_poll id="1"] Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right. Welcome to our business legal podcast where we cover business legal news and add our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. Welcome to the program! My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: Matt Staub’s still sporting the beard even though I’m looking at him right now and his video is frozen so I can’t tell if he just shaved it between the lag. MATT: I intentionally froze it. This is Episode 109 and we had Episode 107 this week. So, a week of two shows with prime numbers as the episode; this is a good Friday fact for people. NASIR: Yeah. Actually, that’s something that everyone’s writing down right now and really cares about. One thing I like about our show is that we really talk about the issues, you know, that people are really concerned about. MATT: Prime numbers, they’re good ones. Okay. Well, we’re actually going to talk about a topic today that I like. I think there actually is one out here in California because I looked it up before but it’s not necessarily that close. The restaurant, Jimmy John’s… NASIR: Wait. Wait. Wait. MATT: So, if I you’re from… NASIR: Hold on. You like Jimmy John’s? MATT: Oh, yeah! You don’t? NASIR: What? MATT: How are you from the Midwest? NASIR: No, no, I’ve been there many times, but I think it’s one of the most overrated places. MATT: Overrated? NASIR: Mostly by you. MATT: I might quit the podcast. NASIR: I threw you off, didn’t I? Okay. Sorry, go ahead. Jimmy John’s… Go ahead. MATT: So, Jimmy John’s, for those of you who don’t know, it’s a sandwich place. I think they have roughly 2,000 locations. I don’t know exactly. You know, their kind of thing are sandwiches that are really quick and they’re also good in my opinion. But, you know, there’s nothing that’s really that unique about them, I guess. NASIR: Yup! MATT: Well, their sandwiches are good. The bread’s really good. But the big things is, like, speed. There’s been many times I’ve gone there where I’ve ordered at the front and, like, by the time I walk to the cash register to pay, the sandwich has already been made. They’re huge in college towns, obviously, because that’s the prime market right there. NASIR: Which should tell you something, but go ahead. MATT: Wow. So against Jimmy John’s. I don’t know what to say. So, anyways, there’s a new lawsuit evolved, of course. Why else would we be talking about it? Of course, they talk about forcing employees to work off the clock like every business does so that’s nothing new but what I want to talk about here is part of their agreement deals with a non-compete – and this is for the people that make sandwiches, not the owners or anything – a non-compete agreement for the sandwich. You know, I’m sure people making roughly minimum wage. There’s a couple of restrictions, but they cannot work within 3 miles of any of the roughly 2,000 Jimmy John’s locations because they have, you know, they don’t want people leaking… Do they talk about trade secret, too? They don’t want people telling them how it’s done? NASIR: Yeah, you can’t work at any place that does 10 percent of their business from making sandwiches and it’s connected to trade secrets. It seems like that’s what they’re worried about which makes me laugh. Like, what kind of trade secrets are there for making deli sandwiches? I mean, frankly, like you said – I’m using your own words – they don’t have anything unique about them in that respect. If you guys haven’t been there,

DocPhil besucht Raul Krauthausen, der aufgrund seiner Glasknochen im Rollstuhl sitzt. Sie sprechen über Sex und Beziehungen von Menschen mit Behinderungen.DocPhil besucht Raul Krauthausen, der aufgrund seiner Glasknochen im Rollstuhl sitzt. Sie sprechen über Sex und Beziehungen von Menschen mit Behinderungen. Raul erzählt ziemlich persönliche Dinge über seine Kindheit, das Verhältnis zu seinem Körper und "unfreiwillige Dreier". Es stellt sich heraus, dass die technischen Fragen des Sex das geringste Problem sind. Oft zehren nicht die körperlichen Einschränkungen an den Nerven aller Beteiligten, sondern die Reaktion der Umwelt auf diese. Aber hört selbst. Wir sind gespannt auf Euer Feedback. Hier noch ein paar Links, die wir erwähnt haben: Surrogatpartnerschaft (WP) Sexualassistenten Spiegel Online über Sexualassistenten Süddeutsche über Sexibilities UPDATE: Raul hat das gesamte Interview transkribieren lassen. Lest es nach dem Klick.... B: Hast Du einen Jingle? I: Nee, es fängt, das ist bei uns Tradition B: Diddle dum dum dum I: Es fängt immer an mit so, läuft es, ja läuft, okay B: Sehr gut I: Okay, herzlich Willkommen, zum Küchenradio, Folge dreihundertundsiebenunddreissig, hier ist Doc Phil, die anderen sind nicht da, weil, unter anderem auch weil wir heute auerhalb unseres gewohnten Dienstags Termins aufnehmen, aber mir lag das sehr am Herzen, das Thema, und deswegen haben wir das jetzt mal auf einen Montag geschoben, ich darf hier zu Gast sein bei Raul, Raul Krauthausen, Hallo Raul B: Hi, Doc Phil, wie Du Dich nennst I: Ja, ja das ist ein, das ist ja ein bisschen, ich habe mich am Anfang auch dagegen gesperrt, aber, das ist so ein bisschen der Name hier, in diesem Kontext, das hat Cindy, vor sieben Jahren als aller erstes, so zu sagen B: Geprägt I: Geprägt, und vor allen irgendwelche Kunstnamen gegeben, und, ja, jetzt bin ich hier halt Doc Phil B: Sehr gut I: Da haben sich die Leute schon dran gewöhnt. Ja, sag mal, wir sind ja, ich bin ja immer hier im schönen, was ist denn das, noch was, das ist Kreuzberg, nicht, ich habe ja auf der anderen Seite B: Nein nein, nicht so viele Details, sonst I: Ah okay, okay, okay, alles klar. Sag mal, wir haben uns ja nicht das letzte Mal, aber, doch einmal intensiver unterhalten auf der Republika, und da hast Du so im Nebensatz gesagt, so, bla bla bla, ja, über Sex mit Behinderung, da reden wir ein anderes Mal. Und da war mir damals schon klar, dass, dass das ein super Thema ist, und dass man das unbedingt mal aufgreifen sollte, und das wollen wir jetzt mal machen. Du hast damals gesagt das ist ein Tabu, ist es wirklich so ein Tabu? Weil ich habe mal so ein bisschen gegoogled und so, und es gibt da schon, so den einen oder anderen Artikel da drüber, ne. B: Ja, auf jeden Fall, gibt es da auch Themen im Netz zu finden, aber eben im Netz, und nicht, wie soll ich mal sagen, auf klassischen Medien, also das eher seltener I: Ja B: Und, wenn, dann finde ich hat das meistens so eine, so eine Konnotation die, keine Ahnung, Behinderte unter sich dürfen gerne Mal miteinander, Sex haben, oder aber es gibt dann dafür extra Fachkräfte, die das halt machen, aber es ist in keiner Datingbörse, vorgesehen, dass man angeben kann, dass man eine Behinderung hat, beziehungsweise, dass man auch mit jemanden der eine Behinderung hat sich vorstellen könnte, eine Beziehung zu führen, was jetzt vielleicht auch wieder eine Art von Stigmatisierung sein könnte, wenn man das machen würde, aber, letztendlich I: Man müsste es ja nicht B: Fühlt man sich als Mensch mit Behinderung, schon auch irgendwie dann relativ schnell aussortiert, aus diesen I: Weil man nirgendwo auftaucht B: Weil man nirgendwo auftaucht beziehungsweise wenn es dann rauskommen alle so sagen, oh Gott, nee, das kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, nicht alle, aber viele sagen, das kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, und man dann auch auch als betroffene, also ich in dem Fall, mich auch oft irgendwie zurückgewiesen gefühlt habe, und dann, das Thema, auch selber selten anspreche, ich merke das mein Freundeskreis mich selten auf das Thema anspricht, und wenn es in den Medien auftaucht, dann immer irgendwie dieses, auch Menschen mit Behinderung können schön sein. Und dann ist es irgendwie so, der super gut aussehende Rollstuhlfahrer, ja, der dann halt nach seinem Reitunfall oder Autounfall weitermodelt, so, ja, klar, aber, das ist halt, wie soll ich mal sagen, der sitzt dann halt auch nur im Rollstuhl, aber die Frage jetzt wie es bei Menschen ist die offensichtlich vielleicht auch nicht ganz den Schönheitsidealen entsprechen, ist, ist es dann natürlich auch schon eher, würde ich sagen, schon tabuisiert. I: Lass uns nochmal anfangen, weil das, wenn ich mich mit solchen Themen beschäftige ist es immer so das erste, wo ich so ins Stolpern komme, wenn es heit, so, Behinderungen, was umfasst das denn eigentlich alles so, also das ist ja doch ein ziemlich breites Spektrum mit unterschiedlichen Auswirkungen. B: Klar, also Behinderung ist auch, letztendlich nur ein Begriff für super viele Formen von Andersartigkeit, es gibt die Sinnesbehinderung, es gibt die körperlichen Behinderungen, die sogenannten geistigen Behinderungen und natürlich auch psychische Behinderungen, wovon, wenn man jetzt, je nach de m wie, wie stark man da die Regeln anwendet, vielleicht sich auch relativ schnell dann dazuzählt oder nicht, deswegen ist das Wort Behinderungen auch schon wieder zu Allgemein, ich würde jetzt nur aus meiner Perspektive, als Glasknochenhabender, im Rollstuhlsitzender, dieses Thema beleuchten können, interessant wäre es, mit einem Blinden, mit einem geistig Behinderten, beziehungsweise mit einem Gehörlosen über dieses Thema zu sprechen, zusätzlich auch noch. I: Genau, da hatte ich vorhin so ein bisschen mal rum getwittert, und da kam ja auch von so verschiedenen Richtungen, Feedback, von Augenschmaus kam natürlich aus ihrer Perspektive so als Gehörgeschädigte, und es kamen auch noch so ein paar andere, die auch so als Partner von Gehörgeschädigten sich zu Wort gemeldet haben, also da merkt ihr schon dass es da offensichtlich eine ganze Menge Mitteilungsbedarf so gibt, dass viel irgendwie so schon auf Resonanz, aber, genau, also deswegen, das ist vielleicht auch eingangs so, wir machen das heute also so zu sagen, Du erzählst über das was Du aus deiner Erfahrung, aus deiner Perspektive B: Ja I: Als, Du musst Mal ein bisschen was über Dich erzählen, wenn man Dich hier sieht, Du sitzt im Rollstuhl B: Bin ungefähr ein Meter gro, je nach Messungszeitraum, beziehungsweise Grundlage, die man dazu zugrunde legt, kann nicht laufen, meine Knochen brechen schneller als bei anderen, und ich habe, einfach eine andere Perspektive und vielleicht entspreche ich in all den Punkten so dem, also auf Grund meiner Körpergröe her, dass man eben mein Alter schlecht einschätzen kann, die Leute trauen mir vielleicht eher, oder sind eher überrascht, wenn ich Dinge dann genauso gut mache wie sie, und man wird dann schnell verbucht als, ja, trotz seiner Behinderung macht er das halt so und so, und das ist ja so toll, und der ist so tapfer, das heit es ist auf der einen Seite leicht, oder leichter, sage ich jetzt mal, Leute zu überraschen mit dem was man kann I: Weil Du permanent unterschätzt wirst, oder? B: Genau, aber auf der anderen Seite schwerer, letztendlich mal auf einer Disco irgendwie, oder in einer Disco, einfach schon alleine Aufgrund der Sitzposition, Leute kennenzulernen. I: Genau, also lass uns doch mal so anfangen, also wenn das so, bevor wir da jetzt zum Sex kommen, oder so, man bahnt ja so, irgendwie, Beziehungen, man lernt ja erst mal Leute kennen, wie machst Du das, wie, und mit welchen Einschränkungen hast Du da zu kämpfen? Oder hast Du zu leben? B: Also, ich kann das gar nicht so, Pauschal, beantworten, ich glaube, dadurch dass ich ein Leben lang eine Behinderung habe, ich natürlich auch selber eine ganz andere Strategie entwickelt habe, in meinem Leben, um bestimmte Situationen vielleicht auch zu vermeiden, das heit ich bin weniger der Discogänger, ja, ich bin weniger auf Partys, wenn ich absehen kann die Party wird gröer als vierzig Leute, dann steigt die Motivation nicht unbedingt da auch hinzugehen, weil dann einfach auch klar ist, das ist voll, das ist eng, die Leute stehen meistens, trinken viel Alkohol, alles Dinge die ich nicht tue, und das ist dann auch nicht mein, mein, wie soll ich mal sagen, mein Gebiet wo ich mich gerne aufhalte, wenn die Party kleiner ist, und die vielleicht in einer kleinen Bar ist, wo die Leute eher sitzen, bin ich schon auch dabei, und, dann habe ich auch nicht so die megakrassen Erfahrungen im Sinne von flirten, oder so, weil sich diese Situationen einfach selten, seltener, ergeben, dadurch dass ich eben relativ wenig auf, wie soll ich mal sagen, Events, oder Ereignissen bin, wo flirten ein akzeptiertes Mittel ist, ja, also ich meine auf, ich bin schon viel unterwegs und treffe auch schon viele Leute, aber es ist dann seltener so eine Art Flirtumgebung, wo man eben flirtet, und wenn ich dann Leute kennenlerne, dann, und es vielleicht zu Flirtsituationen kommt, ist mir schon öfter mal aufgefallen dass ich eher die Leute dann überrascht habe, mit der Bekundung meines Interesses, an ihnen, und die dann, gleich auch den Satz nachzuschieen, immer, immer gleich, ja, aber es liegt nicht an deiner Behinderung. Und, das mag sein, in Einzelfällen, bei einigen bezweifele ich das, ich werfe es ihnen nicht vor, weil ich auch schon wei dass es ja, eher auch unüblich ist, also das, und das die auch selber nie auf, auf den Gedanken gekommen sind, weil es einfach in ihrem Umfeld nie zuvor auch jemand gemacht hat, aber dadurch ist es ja ein selbsterhaltenes, oder Selbsterfüllung, selbsterfüllendes, es ist der Prinzip, dass ich dann auch mich selber nicht mehr traue, dieses Muster zu durchbrechen, und dann selber glaube, niemand will mich, und dann selber mich auch in meinem Verhalten verändere, und so drehen sich letztendlich beide Systeme parallel, wollen vielleicht beide das gute, aber finden sich irgendwie nicht. Du verstehst was ich meine, so jetzt gerade so I: Ja, also ja, den letzten Teil, glaube ich, muss man mal auseinander duseln weil das wichtig ist, ne, also, also Du sagst, Du, Du hast, Du sagst, hey, Du bekundest dein Interesse, dann kommt irgendwie, eine Ablehnung, und dann heit es, okay, es liegt aber nicht an deiner Behinderung, inwiefern veränderst Du dein Verhalten? B: Dass ich einfach solche Situationen meide, dass ich vielleicht mich nicht mehr traue, das zu sagen, dass ich vielleicht auch dann blind werde vor diesen Momenten wo vielleicht andere ein Interesse an mir bekunden, und dass ich schon auch eher Witze auf meine Kosten mache und auch eher mich selber dann runtermache, um dann vielleicht so ein verstecktes fisching for compliments vielleicht sogar, ja, also dann zu sagen so, also ganz so schlimm ist es ja jetzt auch nicht, dass es, dass man das dann hört, wei ich nicht, ist jetzt so eine Hobby Psychologie, aber, ja, könnte ich mir durchaus vorstellen, dass ich da auch in mir drin so ticke I: Wann hast Du denn so die erste Erfahrung gemacht, also ich meine, man, Pupertät, oder, oder wie, wie, weil irgendwann erwachen ja so, in einem das so, sexuelle Gelüste und Gefühle, und Frauen oder Männer, oder so, werden interessant, wie hast Du das gemerkt und wie bist Du damit so umgegangen? B: Also ich glaube das ist eine Bewusstseinswerdung, die, bei mir über Jahre stattgefunden hat, ich kenne einige Menschen mit Behinderungen die alle, oder wo viele erzählt haben, dass sie ungefähr ab der fünften Klasse realisiert haben dass irgendetwas an ihnen anders ist, als an den anderen Klassenkameraden, die keine Behinderung hatten, und das fing meistens zum Beispiel an, wo Schulunterricht körperlich wurde, also zum Beispiel, Sport, ne, davor war irgendwie das, alle irgendwie miteinander Ballspielen, ja, und dann irgendwie ein weicher Ball, und irgendwann, ab der fünften Klasse fängt man dann an, irgendwie, Jungen von Mädchen zu trennen, fängt man an, irgendwie, Bundesjugendspiele zu machen, und so, und dann, wenn Sport halt Sport wird, und nicht mehr Spa, dann realisieren viele Menschen mit Behinderung dass sie da irgendwie nicht dazugehören. Ist kein Vorwurf, es ist halt so, das System sieht das so vor, und, bei uns war es dann zum Beispiel so, dass wenn die Lehrer natürlich auch so Verlegenheitsaktionen gemacht haben, dem wurde ja auch klar, das Raul eben nicht Medizinball mitspielt, weil es einfach gefährlich ist, aber Raul steht dann halt da am Spielfeldrand und zählt Punkte, was jetzt so mittelmäig attraktiv ist wenn Du siehst wie deine athletischen Freunde irgendwie da, megakrasse Sportsachen machen, nicht das ich neidisch bin, sondern einfach, ich fühlte mich gnadenlos unterfordert, mit Punktezählen, und das führte dann dazu dass mir dann zum ersten Mal klar wurde, dass ich anders bin, dass es was mit dem Körper zu tun hat, und, ich würde sagen, ab der fünften Klasse, fängt das dann auch relativ schnell an mit, keine Ahnung, Kuschelpartys, und man, der eine übernachtet beim anderen, ne, und dieses ganze, wo man sich dann eben auch ausprobiert, ja, das fand zum Beispiel bei mir nie statt, und, ich habe mich dann dadurch abgegrenzt, dass ich dann gesagt habe, ich finde das albern, ich finde das doof, das ist mir zu oberflächlich, und so weiter und so fort, was dann dazu führte dass ich zum Beispiel auch selten in der Zeit eingeladen wurde auf Partys, also ich war selten dabei, und, Kuschelpartys haben mich einfach auch wirklich gelangweilt, das heit ich war auch nicht wirklich, also doch ich war schon traurig, dass ich nicht eingeladen wurde, aber, ich wusste auch gleichzeitig, dass ich irgendwie mit diesen Kuschelpartys nichts anfangen kann, das sind aber die, die Situationen, wo, glaube ich, man seine ersten Erfahrungen sammelt an dem Punkt, und, ich hatte meine ersten Sexualitätserfahrungen glaube ich erst mit Mitte zwanzig, und, das ist natürlich reichlich spät, so, würde ich jetzt mal sagen, es gibt natürlich auch Menschen die das später hatten oder eben viel viel früher, aber, für mich war es, es fühlte sich zu spät an, und, ja, das war ja die Frage I: Genau, magst Du mal erzählen was da passiert ist, wie es dazu kam, wie das so war? B: Ich überlege gerade, ich habe mich auch ein bisschen versucht daran nochmal zu erinnern in Vorbereitung auf heute. Das waren dann eher so einmalige Sachen, bis ich dann vor ein paar Jahren, auf einer Party eben, eine Frau kennengelernt habe, die in einer Sitzparty war, also wir saen eher als das wir standen, und zwar drauen, wir waren beide, ja, nicht mehr ganz nüchtern, würde ich sagen, und, haben uns da an dem Abend ineinander verknallt, und waren ungefähr ein halbes Jahr zusammen, ja, das war dann wirklich so eher Ende zwanzig, und, da ist es halt so, dass mir zum ersten Mal wirklich klar wurde, was es bedeutet, nicht nur Sex mit jemandem zu haben, der keine oder eine Behinderung hat, sondern überhaupt eine Beziehung zu haben mit jemandem der keine oder eine Behinderung hat, weil das schon auch, und deswegen komme ich eben auf das Thema Tabu, weil das schon auch, irgendwie, Blicke auslöst, also, wenn man auf der Strae rumläuft, löst es Blicke aus, die man wirklich auch, teilweise bis zur Verachtung, wahrnimmt, oder aber, dann, im Hintergrund so Sachen gesagt werden von Freunden oder Verwandten, also wie, ich kriege dann so Sachen gesagt, so, Mensch, so eine schöne Freundin, ja, so nach dem Motto, wie hast Du das denn geschafft, oder aber, dass meine Partnerin dann in dem Fall öfter zu hören bekommen hat, sag Mal, glaubst Du nicht Du hast was Besseres verdient? I: Das haben die Leute zu ihr gesagt, oder wie? B: Ja, und, wie macht denn ihr das, und dann kommt so diese, relativ schnell so juristischen Fragen, die man verstehen kann, also, wir sind ja wegen mir reflektierende Wesen, also wir kriegen auch schon hin, ein bisschen zu verstehen warum die Menschen das wissen wollen, aber die man eben trotzdem auf Grund von Intimsphäre nicht unbedingt beantworten will, und, es ist einfach hart, zu realisieren dass man eben nicht achtzig Millionen Menschen davon überzeugen kann, dass das okay ist, sondern, also für mich war das jedenfalls so ein Moment, dass ich dann irgendwann realisiert habe, okay Raul, Du wirst ewig auf diese Fragen Antworten haben müssen, und, Du wirst einen Weg finden müssen damit umzugehen, und ich glaube dafür waren wir beide, in der damaligen Zeit, nicht irgendwie in der Lage. I: Es ist daran gescheitert? B: Vielleicht nicht nur, aber auch. I: Denn das ist so eine Sache die ich mir so im Vorhinein überlegt habe, auch, also, wenn man über Sex mit Behinderung redet, dann redet man ganz schnell über Dinge, die man mit, sagen wir mal, nicht Behinderten sofort als Intimssphäre und Grenzüberschreitung B: Genau I: Definieren würde, gleichzeitig erwartet man, hier in dem Kontext, irgendwie eine Antwort B: Ja, genau. Und das meinte ich halt vorhin, dass man die Neugierde versteht, aber auf der anderen Seite mir auch Privatheit einfordern will, beziehungsweise aufrecht erhalten will, und ich bin auch manchmal als Raul Krauthausen, der in der ffentlichkeit vielleicht auch wahrgenommen wird, in so einem Konflikt, so zwischen Aufklärung und eigenem Leben. Ich könnte jetzt natürlich so wie Du Doc Phil heien, und mir irgendwelchen Pseudonym geben, aber, ich glaube das würde letztendlich das Problem nicht lösen, und ich bin einfach ehrlich, und sage wo meine Grenze liegt, und versuche da auch keinen anderen mit reinzuziehen, es ist nur, mir ein so wichtiges Anliegen, dass ich es auch hier über den ther, sagt man das beim Internet? I: Du ich wei auch nicht, ich rede auch immer von senden und Radio und so, wir erzählen einfach B: Genau I: Wir erzählen einfach B: Und ich glaube auch, dass die Gesellschaft, ohne es jetzt Pathetisch zu meinen, aber das, in dem Umfeld in dem ich mich bewege, und in, auch in den Fragen die ich gestellt bekomme, von Leuten die ich nicht kenne, ich schon auch das Gefühl habe, dass die Neugier wächst, oder die Bereitschaft sich mit diesem Thema auseinanderzusetzen, und, das sieht man auch in der Kulturellen Landschaft, also man sieht es, dass, keine Ahnung, Filme wie Ziemlich Beste Freunde auf einmal funktionieren, ja, man sieht es daran, dass davor der Film Me Too aus Spanien funktioniert hat, man sieht, dass das Thema Behinderungen in den Medien, schon auch mehr wahrgenommen wird, jetzt durch die Para-Olympics ja irgendwie auch ein groes Thema, wo dann auch Körperlichkeit auf einmal ein interessanterer Punkt wird, und warum dann nicht auch über Sexualität reden, nur eben auf einer sachlicheren Ebene, als auf einer wohl juristischeren Ebene, es gibt ja auch ziemlich abgefahrene Fetische, rund um das Thema Behinderungen, mit denen ich mich jetzt nicht so gut auskenne, aber I: Welche denn? B: Es gibt Menschen, die stehen auf Menschen mit Behinderungen, und dann gibts vielleicht eine Abstufung, so was wie wir wären selber gerne behindert, oder mögen Menschen die keinen Oberschenkel haben, keinen Unterschenkel habe, Oberarm, Unterarm, Links, Rechts, Oben, Unten, beide, was auch immer, Querschnittsgelähmt, es gibt super viele Facetten davon, es gibt Leute die so tun als ob I: Als ob sie behindert wären? B: Genau. Und das ist schon irgendwie, wenn man sich damit mal länger auseinandersetzt, ich habe das so in Bezug auf meine Diplomarbeit getan, wenn man sich länger damit auseinandersetzt, dann merkt man schon, okay, das ist halt so wie Menschen auf Menschen stehen mit, keine Ahnung, Tattoos, blonden Haaren, groen Brüsten, warum soll es nicht auch Menschen geben die auf Menschen stehen denen ein Bein fehlt, nur, es ist interessant dass es zum Beispiel meistens Männer sind, die diesen Fetisch frönen, und seltener Frauen, und, da fängt da so bei mir so dieser Gender Gerechtigkeitsfrage an laut zu werden, also dann so, liegt es daran weil der Mann einfach gerne dominiert, also, das sind dann so, was steckt da eigentlich dahinter, und da gibt es glaube ich auch keine wirklichen Antworten. I: Was war denn Thema deiner Diplomarbeit? B: Das Thema war die Darstellung von Menschen mit Behinderung im Fernsehen I: Okay B: Und, da stöt man dann früher oder später auch auf das Thema Sexualität I: Und ist da, gibt es da irgendetwas, also gibt es so, Sex mit Behinderung im Fernsehen, im Film B: Also im Film, wie gesagt, in Ziemlich Beste Freunde I: Freunde, aber noch B: An I: Ja B: Ansonsten nichts weiter, groes, es gab jetzt, in England gab es eine Sendung, die hie The Undateables, was ja schon mal ein richtig krasser Titel ist, I: Ja B: Und da ging es halt darum, dass Menschen mit Behinderungen auf der Suche nach einem Partner sind, und es war halt so eine skripted soap I: So Bauer Sucht Frau oder irgendsowas B: Dokusoap, genau, so ein bisschen wie Bauer sucht Frau, und, das hat auch sehr viel Kritik hervorgerufen, alleine wegen des Titels alleine, ich glaube, die Macher hatten schon, könnte ich mir durchaus vorstellen, schon auch ernstgemeinte Interessen an diesem Thema, die nicht nur auf die Quote abzielte, sondern auch Aufklärung machen wollte, aber, wenn es dann einmal durch die Marketing Maschinerie läuft und dann, es geht darum einen reierischen Titel zu finden, dann landet man bei The Undateables und, dann wird das ganz schnell ganz verschroben. Das Leben von Menschen mit Behinderungen ist aber auch nicht immer Para-Olympisch, ja, also, es ist halt von Undateables zu Para-Olympisch gibt es halt noch ein groen Facetten dazwischen, und, natürlich würde ich einem, keine Ahnung, Unterschenkel amputierten Para-Olympischen Sportler die gleichen, oder annähernd die gleichen Chancen anrechnen, einen Partner oder eine Partnerin zu finden, wie wenn er noch beide Beine hätte, ja, weil einfach so eine Prothese jetzt vielleicht auch kein automatisches Tabu ist, oder Hindernisgrund, aber wenn jemand, keine Ahnung, vielleicht eine, das ist jetzt wirklich nur ein Beispiel, ja, wenn eine groe Spastik hat, und, auf Assistenz angewiesen ist, und man ihn schwer versteht wenn er spricht, der wird er es wesentlich schwieriger haben, oder sie, und, darüber reden wenige Menschen, und, womit sich, wie soll ich mal sagen, Medien sich oft begnügen, um dieses Thema dann doch irgendwie auf die Agenda zu setzten ist halt, wirst Du ja auch gefunden haben in deinen Recherchen, Sexualbegleitung I: Genau, das ist so das B: Das sind dann diese Professionellen Berührerinnen und Berührer, die, ja dann, für die Befriedigung sorgen. Kann man auch kritisch betrachten. I: Wenn Du das jetzt so, ich hatte, wollte das ein bisschen später, hatte mir das so für später aufgeschrieben B: Ja I: Aber jetzt so, aber, wenn Du das jetzt so ansprichst, ich meine, was hältst Du denn von denen, also die, die nennen sich ja Sexualbegleiterin, oder Sexualassistenten, so das changiert so ein bisschen B: Ja I: Die Grauzone zur Prostitution, es B: Flieend I: Flieend, es gibt irgendwie passive und aktive Sozialbegleitung, das ist so, ja, also, ich habe da Beispiele gelesen wo ich dachte, ja, macht Sinn, klingt erst mal total gut, gibt aber auch Beispiele, kann man sich leicht ausdenken, wo es so ein bisschen grenzwertig wird, wie ist so dein, deine Sicht so auf diesen Beruf? B: Also ich will das nicht bewerten, ehrlich gesagt, ich will nur ein bisschen davor warnen, Sexualbegleitung als Lösung zu sehen, ich glaube, Sexualbegleitung kann ein, eine Linderung des Drucks, im wahrsten Sinne, sein, aber es definitiv nicht die Lösung, und, ich finde auch Prostitution per Se nicht schlecht, ja, also ich glaube dafür sind wir einfach zu aufgeklärt, um zu sagen, das ist irgendwie ein Teufelswerk, sondern, ich finde es nur dann problematisch, und das gilt dann glaube ich insgesamt für bezahlten Sex, ja, ob es jetzt irgendwie als Begleitung oder als Prostitution ist, ist einfach das als Ersatzbefriedigung zu sehen, oder als Ersatzbedürfnisstillung nach Nähe zu betrachten, und dann, das Portemonnaie, letztendlich, entscheiden zu lassen, viele Menschen mit Behinderungen haben auch gar nicht das Geld, zum Beispiel, um sich so etwas zu leisten, und, es ist definitiv auch keine Lösung, es ist sogar, könnte auch eine Gefahr sein, im Sinne von dass man wirklich nur noch über Geld versucht dieses Problem einigermaen in den Griff zu kriegen, wohlwissend dass es keine Dauerlösung ist. I: Erkläre nochmal für die, ich meine, ich habe es jetzt ein bisschen so quer ein paar Artikel dazu gelesen, aber erkläre doch nochmal für diejenigen die das nicht wissen, was das Konzept ist von Sexualassistenz oder Sexualbegleitung. B: Was der Unterschied ist? I: Ja, was das Konzept ist, also, und wo der Unterschied zur Prostitution ist B: Also, ich glaube, auch da schwimmen natürlich auch die Grenzen, oder verschwimmen. Es ist so dass es bei Sexualbegleitung und Assistenz meistens sich ehemalige Prostituierte sich einfach spezialisiert haben auf eine Zielgruppe, oft dann sogar garniert mit einer Krankenschwesterausbildung die sie halt gemacht haben oder haben, und die dann die Grenze an dem Punkt ziehen, wo es dann um den wirklichen Sex geht, also, die dann vielleicht eher dafür sorgen, dass sie einem, keine Ahnung, zur Befriedigung verhelfen, dass sie einen berühren, vielleicht sogar auch küssen, aber ich glaube, viele ziehen die Grenze dann wirklich auch beim Sex, also beim I: Geschlechtsverkehr B: Geschlechtsverkehr, genau. Wei ich nicht, warum diese Grenze da gezogen wird, also, dann kann man ja eigentlich ja auch wirklich in ein Bordell gehen, es gibt Barrierefreie Bordells, auch in Berlin. Ich glaube man sollte dann eher, wenn man darüber nachdenkt, ja, bezahlten Sex, irgendwie, für Menschen mit Behinderung zugängig zu machen, dann sollte man eigentlich, jetzt auch aus einem Inklusionsgedanken heraus, sagen, okay, dann machen wir alle Bordelle jetzt Barrierefrei, ja, das wäre für mich irgendwie ehrlicher, weil da machen einfach vermeintlich Frauen, die, oder vielleicht auch Männer, gibt es ja wahrscheinlich auch, die überwiegend nichtbehinderte Kundschaft haben, eben auch mal diese Erfahrung, und umgekehrt, ja, als immer wieder diese Sonderlösungen zu finden, also, weil keine Sexualbegleiterin, oder Begleiter würde ja, von Berufswegen, mit einem nichtbehinderten dann ein geschlechtliche Beziehung eingehen, verstehst Du was ich meine? B: Es ist halt wieder diese Sondereinrichtung, Sonderlösung, und der Idealzustand wäre ja eigentlich I: Genau B: Dass man sich in einer, wie soll ich mal sagen I: Na, man geht ins Bordell, und da kommt man dann auch mit dem Rollstuhl rein, und, B: Genau, ja, aber vielleicht wäre der Idealzustand normale Partnerschaften zu haben, die nicht, ne, also I: Ja gut, aber ich meine, das ist ja klar, also das ist ja so zu sagen, das war ja auch dein Punkt, dass Du sagst, okay, das ist nicht, also bezahlter Sex ist nicht die Lösung B: Genau I: Für Beziehungsprobleme oder Einsamkeit, oder solche Sachen, aber trotzdem gibt es das ja, und ich habe mich halt interessiert wie so dein Blick darauf ist, weil es ja auch hier in Berlin jemanden gibt, da bin ich drüber gestolpert, Sexabilites B: Genau, Matthias Vernaldi, genau I: Genau, und von dem habe ich mal so einen Artikel gelesen der genau halt dieses Erlebnis hatte, er ist irgendwie, jenseits der fünfzig, und, hat natürlich auch sexuelle Bedürfnisse, die er so nicht gestillt bekommen hat, und ist halt ins Bordell gegangen, hat da keine guten Erfahrungen gemacht, weil, irgendwie, wollen, wollte, haben di e sich alle geweigert mit ihm Sex zu haben, oder, haben das doppelte genommen, den doppelten Preis, vom normalen, und wollten dann aber nur, irgendwie, zehn Prozent liefern, also, ne, also dann nur so ein bisschen Petting machen, aber kein Geschlechtsverkehr obwohl er das bestellt hatte und ihm auch zugesagt wurde, so, so habe ich das verstanden, dass er aus diesem, aus dieser, wie heit das, aus dieser Erfahrung heraus, diese Partys veranstaltet hat und diese Gruppe, Sexabilities ist das B: Ja I: Eine Gruppe, oder Beratung, oder ist das B: Es ist eher eine Beratung, wie ich das verstanden habe. Ich glaube, dann liegt ja das Problem aber darin, dass die Damen in diesem Gebäude, in diesem Ort, irgendwie Ekel hatten I: Ja B: Und an dem Punkt muss man ja eigentlich ansetzen, und, statt zu versuchen, irgendwie da jetzt wieder eine Sonderlösung zu schaffen, also ich glaube, Matthias Vernaldi ist ja auch gar nicht ausschlielich pro Sexualbegleitung, ne, also ich glaube, er kämpft ja auch für Barrierefreie Bordelle, und, das ist schon ein gröeres Ding, und er berät auch wirklich dann diese harten Fälle, die auch vielleicht fünfzig sind und noch nie in ihrem Leben Sex hatten, und so. I: Genau, also, ich glaube man will es auch gar nicht entweder oder B: Genau I: Weit Du so, entweder Du hast nur Bordelle und alle anderen Fragen sind beantwortet, oder Du musst, willst Bordelle abschaffen, ne, und alle sollen irgendwie so in Beziehungen rein, sondern es geht ja, es ist ja auch, das ist ja auch im Leben nicht so, sondern Du hast ja immer verschiedene Angebote, nur ich fand halt das war, das war für mich so eine, jetzt so eine Welt, die so aufging, wo ich so dachte, stimmt, es gibt Pflegefälle, also ich meine Du sitzt jetzt im, Du sitzt im Rollstuhl, Du kannst Dich irgendwie bewegen, Du kannst auf Partys und so, aber es gibt ja, Pflegefälle, die liegen im Heim, sind bei vollem Bewusstsein, können sich aber nicht mehr bewegen, so, und haben trotzdem Lust auf Sex B: Klar I: So, und es gibt ja auch ein Grundrecht auf sexuelle Selbstbestimmung B: Ja I: Artikel zwei. Und da fand ich das dann total Plausibel, und auch geradezu eine Frechheit das Pflegeheime Prostituiertenbesuch verbieten. B: Ja genau, und genau über den Punkt kommt man ja dann immer auf dieses Tabu Ding, ne, also weil, das hat man halt nicht, wenn man im Heim ist, und es gab auch bis zu Ende der, Anfang der Zweitausender, gab es Fälle wo Menschen mit Behinderungen in Heimen sterilisiert wurden, ja I: Bis wann? Bis Anfang der Zweitausender? B: Ja, gab es Fälle, und das ist schon auch irgendwie, also, einfach nur um diese Dimension aufzumachen, dass bei Menschen mit geistiger Behinderungen zum Beispiel es noch ein viel stärkeres Tabu ist, dabei gibt es auch dafür Lösungen. I: Genau, das, weil das ist ja auch so eine rechtliche, schwierige Geschichte ist, ne B: Genau I: Aber da wollte ich gleich nochmal darüber, aber erst mal so, diese Welt von Menschen die im Pflegeheim leben, ja, bei vollem Bewusstsein sind, Sex haben wollen, und nicht einfach der Schwester sagen können, Schwester, ich hätte gerne hier Dienst XY oder Susanne, die kennen Sie doch noch, ja, oder eine Frau, bestellt dann halt einen Mann, ja, erstens ist das verboten, wenn ich das richtig verstanden habe B: Ja nicht in allen, ne, aber I: Aber es gibt Pflegeheime wo es so okay ist B: Genau, also so weit ich wei, ja I: Und dann brauchst Du ja auch einen Raum, wo Du das machen kannst, also wenn Du dann in so einem Dreibettzimmer liegst, was ist, also B: Richtig I: Du brauchst ja im Prinzip so einen Liebesraum, oder so ein Sexzimmer, oder irgendwie so was B: Ja. Aber es ist ja, also jetzt mal ganz ehrlich I: Ja B: Wir sind ja aufgeklärte Menschen, das ist ja logistisch leistbar, ja, ich meine, da könnte man ja, man könnte ja so einen Raum schaffen, man könnte ja irgendwie I: Du, dass das nicht, dass das keinem, also das ist logistisch für so ein Pflegeheim nicht das Thema sein kann B: Ja, richtig I: Und das ist das ja was es noch ärgerlicher macht, und B: Genau I: Weil, wenn das jetzt so ein riesen Ding, und, auch mit dieser rechtlichen Lage, da kommen wir gleich noch zu sprechen, das ist natürlich nicht ganz ohne, also, da muss man sich natürlich schon ein bisschen was einfallen lassen, aber um diese Logistik, Mensch hätte gerne Sex, hätte gerne eine Prostituierte, oder ein, ein Callboy oder so, und dann gibt es da in dem Heim einen Raum, ja, den man vielleicht auch irgendwie so halbwegs nebenbei und unerkannt oder so, besuchen kann, keine Ahnung, das kann ja nicht das Thema sein B: Richtig. Aber überhaupt dieses Recht auf Privatssphäre, auf Intimität, ist für Menschen mit Behinderungen relativ schwierig auch einzufordern, also, es fängt ja in viel, also es fängt ja schon alleine bei der Offenlegung deiner, deiner Kontoauszüge an, vor dem Sozialamt, um überhaupt Assistenz zu bekommen, das ist schon auch ein Eingriff in, in Privatssphäre, finde ich, auf eine gewisse Art I: Ja B: Bis hin zu, wenn Du auf Assistenz angewiesen bist, Du natürlich dann auch, mehr oder weniger, Fremde Menschen hast, die Dich dann auch mal in Situationen sehen, denen Du dich nicht, der Du nicht jeden Menschen zeigst, also, verstehst Du was ich meine? I: Ja B: Und, also, ich glaube, das ist ein sehr komplexes Feld, wo auch ich selber immer noch viel lerne und experimentiere, wobei jetzt nicht experimentieren im Sinne von, ach probieren wir mal das aus, oder so, sondern einfach ich einfach für mich versuche einen Weg zu finden der mir dann auch entspricht und gut tut, ohne mich selbst zu verraten. I: Was meinst Du damit? B: Mir zum Beispiel auch das Recht zu erlauben, zu sagen, diese Assistenz passt mir nicht, ich hätte gerne einen anderen, als zu sagen, so, ja, besser als gar keiner. Also so was zum Beispiel, und dann in Kauf zu nehmen, dass es halt länger dauert den richtigen zu finden, ja, oder, inwieweit fragt man fremde Leute ob sie einem helfen, bei bestimmten Dingen I: Na. Nochmal zurück zu diesem, zu diesem Thema, Sexualassistenz, also hast Du dazu noch irgendetwas zu sagen, also das ist halt so eine Grauzone wo Du sagst, lieber Bordells Barrierefrei machen, oder B: Also ich fände es zu mindestens mal eine interessanten Gedanken Challenge, ne, also I: Aber wie soll man, wie würde man da rangehen, was ich zum Beispiel, also was ich natürlich auch, also so zu sagen ein, ein Unterkapitel der Geschichte, Gesellschaft findet entspannteren Umgang mit Menschen, ist natürlich der Huren und Prostituierte finde einen entspannteren Umgang B: Ja, ist vielleicht der erste Meilenstein, ne, und dann, dann I: So, und dann, aber wie, wie will man da vorgehen, also, ich meine Vernaldi, der macht doch auch so, bei Sexabilities macht der da auch so mit Hydra und so, Veranstaltungen B: Ja, ich denke das ist auch der richtige Weg, mehr, mehr Städten, gröer, vielleicht auch mal die Frage, er hat dann, das ist glaube ich auch ein riesiges Tabu, Frauen und Sexualität mit Behinderungen, also I: Behinderte Frauen, ja, ja B: Behinderte Frauen, mit Behinderung, und Sexualität, das ist glaube ich auch ein interessanteres Tabu, weil, natürlich gehen Männer in Bordells, und notfalls holen sie sich halt ein Callgirl, so, aber, was machen eigentlich Frauen, und, gibt es eigentlich Callboys die sich auf Frauen spezialisiert haben mit Behinderung, also, das zu finden ist glaube ich eine viel gröere Challenge. I: Aber es ist doch, es wäre doch an sich gut, wenn es das gibt, oder nicht? B: Ja I: Weil das klang so ein bisschen skeptisch vorhin, also B: Nee, also, ich bin einfach nur skeptisch, in dem Bezug zu sagen dass dann Prostitution die Lösung für Beziehung ist, Liebe, Partnerschaft I: Nun gut, aber ich wei nicht ob das jemand B: Wenn wir nur über Sex reden, so rein raus, klar I: Ja B: Ja dann, kann Prostitution ein Modell sein I: Also das ist ja eher B: Aber wie wäre es zum Beispiel, diese ganzen, wie heien die, diese Partnerbörsen die nicht so wie Elitepartner funktionieren, sondern, schon so irgendwie eher für den one-night-stand, wenn man die Barrierefrei im weitesten Sinne machen würde I: Ja B: Ne, also wo dann vielleicht nicht professionelle miteinander in Kontakt kommen, egal ob mit oder ohne Behinderung I: Ja B: Und, wäre das nicht auch Inklusion? Also, warum muss es immer gleich der, die Fachkraft sein? I: Ich glaube, das eine schliet das andere nicht aus B: Nee I: Oder, also ich meine B: Definitiv nicht I: Also dass dein Fokus eher so darauf liegt, Leute, macht irgendwie die Welt zugänglicher, ja, so wie sie jetzt ist, und versucht nicht wieder so ein Sondermodell irgendwie zu finden, das finde ich, das verstehe ich, so, aber nichts desto trotz, bis das soweit ist, finde ich, ist es legitim, irgendwie das Beste daraus zu machen und zu nehmen was man hat B: Ja, nur wir neigen, auf jeden Fall, keine Frage I: Ja B: Wir neigen nur dazu, auch in der medialen Berichterstattung, das als die Lösung zu sehen, und I: Ah, okay B: Und, diese Sexualbegleitung ist glaube ich eine bergangsform, im Sinne von, ja, auch Menschen mit Behinderungen haben ein Recht auf Sexualität, aber das darf nicht das Abstellgleis sein. I: Okay, also, genau, aber, also, vielleicht ist das Medial auch so ein bisschen der Fu in der Tür B: Hoffentlich I: So, wenn ich diese Berichte so lese, dann sind die immer, also ich fand die so ganz, so okay, wo ich auch dachte, aha, ist jetzt interessant, also, was so medial als Aufhänger funktioniert um sich mit diesem Thema, um das Thema mal, einem gröeren Publikum zu präsentieren B: Ja, genau, also es macht es glaube ich gefällig I: Ja B: Ja. Interessant, fände ich jetzt, wären auch so Fragen wie, warum sind Sexualbegleiterinnnen und Begleiter eigentlich alle nichtbehindert? Oder, warum haben die alle meistens eine Krankenschwesterausbildung? Also ist da nicht wieder dieses, Gesund-Krank, irgendwie so stark im, mit so einem Pflegerischen Aspekt mit drin, also, ich will, das ist jetzt kein Vorwurf, ja, aber, wenn es darum geht, dass Menschen mit Behinderung vielleicht durch Sexualbegleitung lernen, ihren Körper und sich zu lieben, ja, könnte es auch nicht sogar, wenn das der Sinn dahinter ist, könnte dann vielleicht doch nicht viel förderhafter sein, wenn die Begleitung dann auch eine Behinderung hat? I: Ja B: Nur mal so ein Gedankenspiel, ich will das jetzt nicht definieren I: Ja B: Ja, und, das kommt mir manchmal ein bisschen zu kurz, es gibt, zum Beispiel das ISB Trebel, oder ISBW Trebel, ich wei nicht ob Du das I: Ja, mir ist, der Kürzel ist mir untergekommen B: Da kann man diese Ausbildung machen zum zertifizierten Sexualbegleiter, und, soweit ich wei, machen das wohl auch Menschen mit Behinderungen, ich habe mich damit nicht beschäftigt, ernsthaft, das ist mir nur mal so unter die Augen gekommen, aber das wurde zum Beispiel gegründet von Lothar Sandfort, und I: So einem Psychologen, ne B: Genau, der glaube ich auch eine Behinderung hat, und, der sagt halt zum Beispiel, das auch, also dass da wirklich auch verlieben praktiziert wird, also in dieser Ausbildung, und dass auch behinderte Menschen ein Recht auf Liebeskummer haben, also dass es eben nicht nur darum geht, irgendwie, jetzt einmal rein raus, und I: Einmal Orgasmus und B: Genau, sondern auch diese ganze Gefühlswelt und diese Dimension dahinter, zu entdecken und zu verstehen, und, das ist ja auch ein Recht, das man haben kann. I: Weil das mit Behinderung schwerer fällt in der Pubertät, oder warum gerät das so unter die Räder? B: Ich glaube das gerät da an dem Punkt unter die Räder, wenn Behinderung als etwas medizinisches, als therapiert, geheilt, und so weiter werden muss, betrachtet wird, und man dann als Mensch mit Behinderung frühzeitig, ich sag es mal fies, aussortiert wird, in Sondereinrichtungen, wo dann Sexualität irgendwie so, auch von den Mitarbeitern vielleicht, als sehr unangenehmes Thema gesehen wird, und dann bis zu Mitte zwanzig, Ende zwanzig, das Thema bei Dir nie auf der Agenda ist. Du merkst irgendwas stimmt mit Dir nicht, Du merkst irgendwie, Du wachst morgens mit einer Latte auf, oder was auch immer, und, scannst die ganzen Pornos aus dem Internet, aber so, Du hast halt diese, diese Selbsterfahrung nie gemacht. I: Warum hast Du die nie gemacht? B: Also ich schon, aber auf eine, ich kann mir durchaus vorstellen dass es die, die so erst mal für viele Menschen nicht gibt, und ich habe es auch für mich relativ spät erst erlebt. I: Aber Du warst doch, warst Du nicht auch verliebt, irgendwie mal, mit vierzehn, fünfzehn? B: Aber es kam nie zum Körperkontakt, zum Beispiel. Also ich habe dann geschwärmt, eher. I: Ja B: Und meine erste sexuelle Entdeckung hatte ich mit einem Jungen der auch eine Behinderung hatte, also nicht im Sinne von dass ich mich in ihn verliebt habe, oder so, sondern dass wir uns beide zum ersten Mal so, nackt, sahen, so, und, Du musst Dir einfach vorstellen, wenn Du als Mensch mit Behinderung mit deinen Freunden irgendwie schwimmen gehst, ja, hast Du halt einen Einzelverhelfer, oder einen Betreuer, der sich um Dich kümmert, und mit dem gehst Du in die Sonderkabine, die Rollstuhlgerecht ist, ne, durch, aus architektonischen Gründen, das heit Du siehst deine Freunde auch relativ selten nackt, und sie dich auch selten, und, verstehst Du was ich meine? I: Ja ja B: Also I: Erzähl mal weiter, ja B: Es ist nicht so, dass ich noch nie Menschen zuvor nackt gesehen habe, und es ist auch nicht so dass ich noch nie zuvor Frauen nackt gesehen habe, aber es war halt, ich würde mal sagen es passierte bei mir zu nur einem Bruchteil, als es viele andere vielleicht taten, und Situationen wo man vielleicht auch Körperlichkeit erlebte, die fanden gar nicht bei mir I: Also jetzt gar nicht Sex, oder so, sondern im Sinne, oder sondern einfach normale Körperlichkeit B: Körperlichkeit, genau I: Man berührt sich mal beim Duschen, oder irgendwie, oder B: Genau I: Keine Ahnung, was man halt so B: Genau, und so wirklich Körperkontakt zu einer Frau die ich liebte hatte ich erst Mitte zwanzig, also Hände geben, also Händeschütteln genauso I: Ja B: Ja I: Und, okay, aber das ist jetzt zum Beispiel ja auch, das ist, das war mir auch nicht so klar, weil das ist natürlich, also wenn Du das so erzählst, leuchtet das total ein, dieses permanente, diese permanente Sonderbehandlung, aus guten Willen heraus, und manchmal vielleicht auch architektonisch auch, irgendwie geht es nicht anders, aber das führt auch zu so einer physischen und emotionalen Separierung, oder, wenn ich das richtig verstehe B: Genau I: Von, jetzt gar nicht deiner, dem Mädchen in das Du dich verliebt hast, oder dem Jungen in den Du dich verliebt hast, sondern von allen deinen, von deiner Peergroup, so ein bisschen B: Genau I: Mädchen, Jungen, vierzehn, fünfzehn, Du siehst sie nicht nackt, man berührt sich nicht mal, man, keine Ahnung B: Man wird sonder I: Man neckt sich nicht mal B: Genau, man wird mit einem Sondertransport von A nach B gebracht, wo alle anderen sich im Bus vielleicht nachmittags verabreden oder I: Oder so, oder man rutscht sich vorne mal irgendwie B: Man kann sich nicht aussuchen I: In das Mädchen rein B: Genau I: Ja Genau B: Man kann sich nicht aussuchen neben wem man sitzt wenn man irgendwie Reisen macht, also das sind, weit Du I: Genau, aber was macht das mit Dir? B: Ich glaube dass es einfach mit mir macht, dass ich dann sehr lange, und das schlummert garantiert auch noch in mir, sehr lange mich dann eher mit anderen Dingen beschäftigt habe, als mit meinem Körper, oder überhaupt mit Körpern, ja, ich habe dann vielleicht eher angefangen mich für Computer zu interessieren, ich habe dann einfach meinen, meine Freizeit die ich dadurch gewonnen habe, um das mal hart zu formulieren, in andere Dinge gesteckt, und mir war in dem Moment aber gar nicht klar, dass das fehlt, weit Du, das ist einfach, ich bin dann einfach anders geprägt, und, ich finde das super Schade, und, ich kann mich erinnern, dass ich als Kind auch nie darüber sprechen wollte, es gab viele Situationen, wo es dieses Angebot gab, darüber zu sprechen, wir hatten Schulpsychologen, meine Eltern haben mich gut aufgeklärt, also ich war, wei dass man Kondome benutzt und ich wei ab wann HIV ansteckend ist, und ab wann nicht, also es ist jetzt nicht so dass ich da komplett keine Ahnung habe, ich wei nur dass ich da nie gerne darüber sprach, und das ist mehr als Scham, es war etwas das machen die anderen, nicht ich. I: Aha. Also jetzt, jetzt so langsam, das, weil das finde ich ja, also neben dieser technischen Ebene, so, ne, okay, jemand ist behindert, kriegt der noch einen Orgasmus, oder, wo sind seine erogenen Zonen, da B: Ja, also Sex ist ja wesentlich mehr als nur irgendwie Orgasmus kriegen I: Ja. Ja, aber das finde ich, so zu sagen, dieses Aufwachsen, ohne diese Erfahrung von körperlicher Nähe, von Selbsterfahrung mit dem Körper, auch im Verhältnis zu anderen B: Ja I: Und B: Ich hatte auch zum Beispiel, ganz kurz I: Ja, unbedingt B: Ich hatte selber, in dem Alter wo glaube ich, so Teenageralter, Pubertät, bis Anfang zwanzig, ich, hatte ich kaum Kontakt zu Menschen mit Behinderungen, ganz allgemein, und ich fühlte mich immer alleine auf diesem Thema, und wusste auch nie, wie andere das machen. Und wir hatten zum Beispiel einen bei uns in der Schule, der war eine Klasse über mir mit der gleichen Behinderung, und ich habe nie mit dem darüber geredet, obwohl sich viele Gelegenheiten ergaben, ich habe ihn immer nur beneidet, ich habe ihn immer beneidet wie er von seinen Freunden wahrgenommen wurde, und, wie er umarmt wurde von Freundinnen, die keine Ahnung, ihn begrüen, verabschieden, was auch immer, und, für mich war das immer so ein Spiegel, so will ich auch mal akzeptiert werden, und ich glaube, ich wurde auch genau so wahrgenommen von meinen Freundinnen und Freunden, aber ich habe es nicht gesehen, verstehst Du was ich meine? Ich war kein Auenseiter in der Klasse, sondern ich habe einfach nicht gesehen, dass auch mir gegenüber vielleicht eine gewisse Sympathie entgegengebracht wurde, und, weil ich einfach auf dem, auf dem Auge da einfach abgestumpft bin. Ich habe es immer bei anderen bewundert, aber bei mir selten gesehen. Das ist eine Erkenntnis die ich relativ neu habe, also das ist, seit ich mich mit diesem Thema auch mehr auseinandersetze, auch ich selber noch gar nicht an dem Punkt bin wo ich sage, ja ja, jetzt wei ich Bescheid wie ich funktioniere, sondern, es sind auch Dimensionen die ich gerade neu entdecke I: Genau, weil das finde ich ja, sag mal, das ist ja eine ungeheure Dimension, also, für einen Menschen, der quasi aufwächst in dieser Pubertätszeit B: Ja I: Und diese sehr, so, für viele eigentlich alltäglichen und erst mal so kleinen Erfahrungen, aber doch total wichtigen Erfahrungen B: Ja I: ber die Jahre hinweg B: Genau I: Und wenn das nicht da ist, frage ich mich gerade, was macht das so mit einem, also, was ist so die Lücke die da entsteht, was sind so die Kollateralschäden und Nebenwirkungen von dieser Emotionalen und so ein bisschen entkörperlichten Phase? B: Also, ich glaube nicht dass ich da irgendwelche geheimen, perversen Phantasien entwickelt habe, oder so, als Kompensation, sondern, ich glaube einfach, dass ich meine, dass ich meinen Körper anders wahrnehme als vielleicht andere ihren Körper wahrnehmen, oder auch andere meinen Körper wahrnehmen, also dass ich einfach denke, ja, der Körper ist halt da damit ich überlebe, ja, aber ich selber, glaube ich, habe einen gestörtes Verhältnis zu meinem Körper I: Hast Du? B: Ja, glaube ich schon. Und, ich meine, es ist ja sehr intim, ne, ich will es jetzt gar nicht weiter ausschmücken, aber die, wie soll ich sagen, ich wei auch gar nicht genau was ich sagen will, aber, ich glaube, dass mein, mein Körper und ich haben einfach ein gestörtes Verhältnis zueinander, der mich, also ich pflege ihn, ich hüte ihn, ich mache ihn nicht unbedingt brauchbar an mir, ja, so, ich verachte ihn nicht, aber ich liebe ihn eben auch nicht, und es gibt auch kein Körperteil wo man, wenn man mich fragen würde, welches Körperteil von Dir gefällt Dir, hätte ich keine Antwort darauf, so. Ich achte darauf dass ich irgendwie, zum Friseur gehe, dass ich mich rasiere, und dass ich sauber bin, so, aber da hört es auch auf, also eher so ein, so einen pflegerischen, hygienischen Blick auf meinen Körper als einen so, oh, das ist mal aber irgendwie, keine Ahnung, tolle Muskelpartien, oder so, habe ich halt nicht I: Also dass Du deinen Körper, dass Du Dich und deinen Körper liebst würdest Du nicht sagen? B: Nee, ich glaube es ist halt eher so ein, warten I: Warten? B: Also warten, so wie man an einem Auto wartet I: Ach so B: Ja ja I: Und hängt dieses Verhältnis, was Du heute jetzt beschrieben hast, mit den, mit diesen Erfahrungen aus deiner Jugend zusammen? B: Auf der Ebene halt, dass ich glaube ich eher gepflegt wurde, weit Du, ich hatte halt Einzelverhelfer die mich pflegten, ich hatte Eltern die mich pflegten, ich hatte, ich konnte viele Dinge nicht selber machen, ich konnte viele Dinge nicht an mir selber ausprobieren, ich konnte, ich war in vielen Dingen einfach limitiert, ja, ich konnte nicht irgendwie, zu H&M gehen, und mir schöne Sachen kaufen, weil es einfach auch nur eine begrenzte Auswahl gab von Dingen die ich, wo keine Mickymaus drauf ist, wenn man Klamotten in meiner Körpergröe braucht, also ich habe einfach, es zieht sich komplett durch, durch ganz viele Welten, und, das habe ich dann irgendwann auch mit mir machen lassen, weil es einfach auch mühsam war, immer dagegen zu kämpfen und immer zu suchen, und immer, irgendwie dann bei H&M diese Perlen zu finden, und so weiter I: Aber was hättest Du Dir denn gewünscht, also, sagen wir mal so, das ist ja jetzt auch so ein B: Das ist ja das was ich sage, dass ich glaube ich in dem Alter nicht das Bedürfnis hatte, oder nicht, mir nicht klar war, dass ich mir etwas, dass mir etwas fehlt. I: Genau, aber der Punkt ist ja jetzt auch, die Leute sollen ja lernen B: Ja I: Und die sollen ja aus dem was Du erzählst, wenn das jetzt Leute hören, lernen, und sie sollen sich ja auch, wenn sie in so einer Situation sind, vielleicht auch ihrer Situation bewusst werden, und vielleicht auch ihre Bedürfnisse kennenlernen, ernstnehmen, vielleicht auch einfordern, und was mich interessiert ist ein jugendlicher, vierzehn, fünfzehn, so, der heute im Rollstuhl sitzt, und der auch diese ganze, dieses Objekt von Pflege ist, ja, schon der Pfleger, und dann wird der irgendwie sonderbehandelt, und, sonderbehandelt ist ein Scheisswort, aber er wird halt gepflegt, und, fährt in einen extra Bus, und kriegt eine extra Kabine, und so. Was hättest Du denn, was hättest Du Dir damals gewünscht? B: Ich glaube, ich hätte mir gewünscht, dass alle Menschen, die an diesem Pflegeprozess, oder an diesem Logistikprozess beteiligt sind, sich darüber klar werden, dass oft aus praktischen Gründen, man sonderbehandelt wird, ja, also es gibt viele Menschen mit Behinderungen die von ihren Eltern angezogen werden, mit Dingen die den Eltern gefallen, die aber vielleicht nicht mehr Jugendliche tragen, ja, aus praktischen Gründen. Es gibt Situationen wo man dann eben diesen Sonderfahrdienst hat, aus praktischen Gründen, weil der Reisebus kein Rollstuhlplatz hat, und so weiter, und so fort, und ich glaube, viele Dinge würden sich einfach anders ergeben wenn sich mehr Menschen darüber klar werden, dass es vielleicht auch eine gemeinsame Aufgabe ist, Klamotten gemeinsam zu finden, oder eine gemeinsame Aufgabe ist, mal den Rollstuhlfahrer zu fragen, oder die Rollstuhlfahrerin, zu fragen, wie möchtest Du denn sitzen, ja, anstatt, verstehst Du, also anstatt so dieses I: Ein Leben jenseits der pragmatischen Erwägung, so zu sagen B: Ja, oder jenseits, ja, jenseits jetzt nicht, komplett jenseits I: Ja, nicht jenseits, aber dass es nicht nur darum geht, wie, wo packen wir den denn jetzt noch hin B: Genau I: So, sondern, okay, vielleicht ein bisschen komplizierter, aber sie würde gerne auch in der letzten Reihe da irgendwo sitzen, okay, kriegen wir das irgendwie hin B: Ja I: Also es ist vielleicht nicht so der erste Platz der uns einfallen würde, aber, wenn das der B: Genau I: Wenn das der Wunsch ist, weil, dann gucken wir mal, ob, wie wir das machen B: Genau I: Oder, zusammen Duschen B: Ja I: Ja, oder gemeinsam umziehen. Ja B: Also ohne das jetzt gleich ein Pädagogisches Konzept rumstrickend, aber einfach, vielleicht, dieses in Betracht ziehen, dass es ein Bedürfnis sein könnte. Ich würde jetzt auch nicht sagen, Du musst jetzt da mit I: Duschen, nee, das ist schon klar, aber mir geht es ja um so eine Sensibilisierung für so B: Ja I: Für so Bedürfnisse die in dieser ganzen Pragmatischen Alltagsgestaltung häufig unterzugehen scheinen. B: Genau I: Die man halt bewusst mal, den man, wo man mal auf Pause drücken muss und sagen hey, will ich das hier alles, will ich vielleicht mal was anderes B: Genau I: Nein, okay, weiter, ja, okay, dann versuchen wir halt was geht B: Genau I: So B: Und, ich würde ganz gerne mal auf diesem Kulturellen Aspekt mit den Filmen und so I: Ja, wollen wir mal B: Eingehen. Es gab in den letzten Jahre Filme, zu dem Thema, also es gab irgendwie Ziemlich Beste Freunde, es gab Me Too, es gab Renn Wenn Du kannst, es gab Vincent will mehr, und es waren alles relativ erfolgreiche Filme, es ist jetzt nicht so irgendwie, B Movie, läuft nur in zwei Sälen am Tag, sondern es ist halt schon wirklich, hat die Massen erreicht, und, oder sogar Avatar hat eine gewisse Behinderungskomponente drin, weil der Protagonist im Rollstuhl sitzt I: Ich habe den nicht gesehen, ja B: Du hast Avatar nicht gesehen? I: Nee B: Bist Du verrückt? I: Nee, keine Ahnung, aber den habe ich nicht gesehen B: Aber Du weit dass es den gibt, den Film I: Ja bestimmt, ja genau, ja B: Jedenfalls, also ich meine, wir können ja bei Avatar anfangen, ja, Avatar handelte davon, Rollstuhlfahrer, natürlich durch irgendein Unfall, wie auch immer, sitzt er im Rollstuhl und führt seit dem ein frustriertes Leben, ja, oder ist unzufrieden, was schon mal eine Annahme ist, von dem Regisseur, Cameron, wo ich sagen würde, ja, würde ich erst mal bezweifeln, ob das immer so ist. Okay, ist aber so in dem Film, und, nur er kann ein Avatar steuern, weil sein Zwillingsbruder verstorben ist auf den der Avatar programmiert ist, und da er ja der Zwilling ist, wird er gefragt ob er das machen kann, er legt sich also in dieses Ding hinein um diesen Avatar zu steuern, und stellt plötzlich fest, dass er als Avatar ja laufen kann, das heit, sein gröter Wunsch wird Realität und geht in Erfüllung, und, er muss natürlich lernen diesen Avatar zu steuern und zu kontrollieren, und weil er aber so ein groes Bedürfnis nach laufen hat, wird er natürlich besser als alle anderen die auch in Avataren stecken, das ist also dann so, wird dann praktisch vom Sorgenkind, zum, so nennt man das in der Wissenschaft, zum Superkrüppel, der dann einfach besser ist als alle anderen, so, und, der Film endet dann damit, dass er sich dann in einen Navi verliebt, also in diesen Avataren können sie nämlich auf einem anderen Planeten, letztendlich, interagieren mit den Navis, so heien die Einwohner dort, und er verliebt sich dann dort in eine Navi, die aber gar nicht wei dass er in Wirklichkeit als Mensch im Rollstuhl sitzt, sondern sich eben in ihn als Avatar verliebt, und er sich am Ende des Films entscheidet, ein Avatar zu bleiben, so, um mit ihr ein glückliches Leben zu führen. Aber was da letztendlich im Hintergrund abläuft, als Geschichte, ist ja die, dass er lieber gesund wäre als behindert, oder nichtbehindert als behindert I: Und dass sein behindertes Leben B: Nichts wert ist I: Nichts wert ist B: Und, dass sie das auch gar nicht wei, ja I: Wenn sie das wissen würde, so der Subtext, B: Genau I: Würde das nichts werden B: Und am Ende steht die Erlösung. Das ist ganz typisch für Menschen mit Behinderungen in der Geschichte, also wenn Geschichten über Menschen mit Behinderungen erzählt werden, geht es immer um Erlösung, Heilung, oder Tot, ja, und in dem Fall ist es ja Tot als Behinderter, und Wiedergeburt als nichtbehinderter. Wenn man es vergleicht mit einem anderen Film, wie zum Beispiel, Vincent Will Mehr, ja, geht es halt darum, dass ein Mann der Tourette-Syndrom hat, auf der Suche nach einer Beziehung ist, oder er will, überhaupt, aus seinen Therapiezentrum rauskommen, und irgendwie auch Single ist, und er verliebt sich dann am Ende des Films in eine die auch eine Psychische Erkrankung hat, oder auch irgendwie nicht, in Anführungsstrichen, normal ist. Das heit, auch da wieder wurde der Zuschauer von seiner Verantwortung entledigt, in dem man sagt, ah da haben sich ja zwei gefunden, das ist ja schön, ja, also zwei Kloppis haben sich gefunden, und ich muss mich damit jetzt nicht weiter auseinandersetzen. Genau das gleiche ja bei Avatar, ich muss mich nicht auseinandersetzen, weil er kann ja, der ist ja jetzt wieder gesund. Beim dritten Film, den ich ja I: Ja aber ganz kurz B: Ja I: Bei dem Vincent Will Mehr, also bei Avatar ist diese dubiose Message klar, aber bei Vincent Will Mehr verstehe ich es ehrlich gesagt nicht B: Okay, bei Vincent Will Mehr ist es halt so, dass man in dem Film auch vor der Frage steht, also Zuschauer, könnte ich mir vorstellen dass jemand der Tourette-Syndrom zu führen I: Für die, die es nicht wissen, Tourette-Syndrom ist, man, ich kenne es nur als dieses, jemand läuft rum und schimpft halt permanent B: Genau I: Das ist auch der Kern dieses Syndroms B: Ja, oder schlägt sich, oder zuckt, oder, ja I: So B: Es gibt verschiedene Ausprägungen, genau. Und meistens in den Situationen wo es am unpassendsten ist, man wei nicht genau woher das kommt, ist halt so. I: Ja, okay B: Und, in diesem Film gibt es ab und zu Momente wo man sich fragt, oh, könnte ich mir das vorstellen, so, und man schämt sich für ihn, manchmal, und manchmal ist es lustig, und, aber es ist so, letztendlich schwingt immer so diese Frage im Raum I: Ja B: Und der Film endet aber eben mit dem Märchenhaften Ende, dass er eben eine findet die ihn so nimmt wie er ist, weil sie ja auch anders ist. Das heit, der Zuschauer wird aus dieser Frage entlastet, entlassen, indem er sie nicht beantworten muss. I: Weil sie jemand für ihn Verantwortung übernommen haben B: Ja, genau. Dann gibt es den anderen Film, Renn Wenn Du Kannst, deutscher Produktion, handelt davon dass ein Rollstuhlfahrer mit seinem Civi sich in die gleiche Frau verlieben I: Ja B: Ja, und, ich glaube, die Frau schläft auch mit beiden, nacheinander, und entscheidet sich aber am Ende für jemand ganz anderen. Das heit auch da wieder, die Frage, schön galant aus der Affäre gezogen, musste sich das Publikum nicht beenden, weil es gibt ja vielleicht, wahre Liebe ist vielleicht dann doch noch was anderes, so, also, verstehst Du mein Gedankengang I: Ja, wenn Du mir jetzt nochmal sagst wie es deiner Meinung nach hätte laufen können? B: Dazu würde ich kommen I: Ja B: Nachdem ich Ziemlich Beste Freunde jetzt ins Feld werfe I: Ja, den habe ich auch gesehen, genau B: Genau. Bei Ziemlich Besten Freunde ist es ja so, irgendwie, dann kommt das Thema Sexualität auf einmal auf, auch richtig als Thema I: Mit den Ohren und den Massagen B: Mit den Ohren und den Massagen, also für Frauen und so I: Also für die die es nicht gesehen haben, also, es gibt halt den Rollstuhlfahrer und der hat halt, kriegt halt ein, Civi ist es ja nicht B: Assistent I: Assistent, und, genau, es entspinnt sich so eine Freundschaft, der Assistent ist so ziemlich, ja, unverkrampft, unkompliziert B: Genau I: Haut gut auf die Kacke, nennt die Dinge beim Namen, B: Ja I: Und schleppt ihn dann auch mal zum, Bordell ist es nicht, aber Massagesalon, mit Zusatzangebot, oder so B: Genau I: Will ich es mal nennen, und, als es dann so zu sagen zum Zusatzangebot kommt, sagt der Assistent, hier, geh mal nicht tiefer unter die Gürtellinie, sondern, nimm seine Ohren, das sind seine erogenen Zonen B: Genau. Was auch glaube ich auch nicht ganz stimmt bei Menschen mit I: Crashness Lähmung B: Crashness Lähmung, ja, weil sie, vielleicht ja, aber das würde ich jetzt nicht so pauschal für alle so beantworten. Aber was bei diesem Film halt interessant ist, das Thema Sexualität kommt auf, es ist irgendwie, wird humorvoll angegangen, und dann endet der Film, und dann kommt der Abspann, und dann steht da, ach übrigens, der Typ hat eine Frau und Kinder, und ist glücklich, und, Du weit gar nicht genau, wie ist es denn eigentlich dazu gekommen, und, was waren eigentlich die Herausforderungen von denen die eigentlich im Alltag standen, und wie, der kann dann auf einmal doch Kinder kriegen, also so, all diese ganzen Fragen, die man ja dann vielleicht auch berechtigterweise hat, nicht nur unter einem juristischen Aspekt, sondern einem erzählerischen Aspekt, werden da gar nicht beantwortet. Und bei dem Film Me Too, ja, aus Spanien, geht es halt dann zum Beispiel auch um die Frage, da hat er Trisomie Einundzwanzig, und verliebt sich in eine Kollegin, die keine Behinderung hat, und die beiden verständigen sich auf den Punkt, dass sie einmal miteinander schlafen, und dann nie wieder. Und als Zuschauer mit Behinderung dachte ich so, was ist das denn für ein komischer Kompromiss, also was ist denn da, was war denn ja Vater des Gedankens zu sagen, die einigen halt darauf das er dann einmal das Erlebnis hat, und sie vielleicht auch, auf eine gewisse Freakshow Art, aber, warum bleiben die nicht zusammen, was ist denn das Problem, die lieben sich doch? Und, es hat für mich dieses Geschmäckle gehabt, dass das irgendjemand reingeredet hat in diesen Film, war es eine Filmfördergesellschaft oder was auch immer, Verleiher, dass dann diesen Plot vielleicht geändert hat. Und, ich glaube, und da komme ich dann zum Schluss meines Plädoyers, ich glaube dass die groe Frage eigentlich die des Alltags ist, also Alltag I: Genau, das hatten wir, das hattest Du vorhin schon mal angeschnitten, genau, erzähl mal B: Also Alltag zwischen einem Mischpaar I: Ja B: Ja, also einem Paar, wo einer, oder eine, eine Behinderung hat und einer oder eine nicht, und, was für Herausforderungen haben die eigentlich im Alltag zu meistern? Also von den Blicken, über rzte, mter, Kinder kriegen, all diese ganzen Fragen, die garantiert vierhunderttausend Filme zulassen würden als Thema, werden gar nicht beantwortet in diesen groen kulturellen Werken die jetzt in den letzten Jahren im Kino gezeigt wurden. I: Aber dann lass uns doch nochmal ein bisschen darüber reden, weil wir haben jetzt so ein paar Aspekte, finde ich, angesprochen, so einmal dieser Aspekt, sagen wir mal, körperlich emotionale Entfremdung von seinem Körper in der Jugend, dann so ein bisschen dieses, ja, dieses technische, oder nicht technische Problem, aber so dieses kulturelle Problem wenn man erwachsen ist und Lust auf Sex und Partnerschaft hat, jemanden zu finden, dann dieses Ding, okay, das ist mit Schwierigkeiten behaftet aber trotzdem will ich Schluss aus Sex, also, kaufe ich mir Sex, entweder im Bordell, oder bei diesen Assistenten, und, Du hattest es vorhin schon mal angeschnitten, nämlich genau auch bei deiner Beziehung damals, hast Du jetzt eigentlich gerade eine Beziehung? B: Ja I: Wohnt die hier? B: Nein, die wohnt nicht hier I: Ah, okay B: Nee, ich habe eine Beziehung mit einer Nichtbehinderten I: Und, genau, aber dann erzähl doch mal, genau, lass uns mal ein bisschen Zeit dafür nehmen, erzähl doch mal, aus diesem Alltag. Also was sind da so, wo Du sagst, das müsste mal, müsste man, das wäre doch mal eine erzählerische Note die bisher überhaupt zu kurz gekommen ist. Was sind das denn für Sachen, die Du da erzählen willst? B: Also, so lange kennen wir uns noch nicht, dass wir uns irgendwie megaviele Alltagserfahrungen gesammelt haben, was Blicke von auen und so weiter angeht, ich kann nur sagen, was es mit mir macht, also I: Ja B: Ich glaube, es ist für mich wirklich ein sehr seltenes Gefühl, zu merken, geliebt zu werden, also, über dieses gemocht werden hinaus, ja, dieses, über dieses bester Freund hinaus, das ist für mich eine ziemlich seltene und immer wieder schöne, und auch bereichernde Erfahrung. Es ist für mich neu, zu merken und zu spüren dass ich das auch in anderen auslösen kann, ja, jenseits, also über dieses, ah, Raul ist so ein erfolgreicher was auch immer, sondern dass man wirklich auch mal auf einer emotionalen Ebene in vier Wänden geschehen zu lassen, und das dann irgendwie nicht auf Utube, oder, keine Ahnung, Szene eben rauszuposaunen, sondern einfach, wie soll ich sagen, auch sich selbst zu entdecken, und auch jemanden anderen zu entdecken, das ist insofern neu für mich, aber in dem, aus meiner Beziehungshistorie insgesamt merke ich schon, dass es sehr viele Vorbehalte gibt, was Beziehungen angeht, also, hinter dieser vermeintlich, ja ja natürlich, ist das alles gar kein Problem, Fassade, stecken viele Dinge wie, was ich auch schon erwähnte, ne, so Sätze die man dann hört, so, also ich könnte mir das echt nicht vorstellen, oder, ich finde das so toll dass Du das machst, und, ach, ist das, keine Ahnung, deine Schwester? Habe ich auch schon gehört, ja, und, weil die Leute einfach in diesem Mindset nicht sind, die Leute ziehen das einfach nicht in Betracht, dass es eine, auch eine Liebesbeziehung sein kann, und, ich hatte auch mal eine Beziehung mit einer Frau mit Behinderu