Podcasts about mount snow

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 22, 2025 74:23

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and to support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.WhoTrent Poole, Vice President and General Manager of Hunter Mountain, New YorkRecorded onMarch 19, 2025About Hunter MountainClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Hunter, New YorkYear founded: 1959Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass, Epic Local Pass – unlimited access* Epic Northeast Value Pass – unlimited access with holiday blackouts* Epic Northeast Midweek Pass – unlimited access with holiday and midweek blackouts* Epic Day Pass – All Resorts, 32 Resorts tiersClosest neighboring ski areas: Windham (:16), Belleayre (:35), Plattekill (:49)Base elevation: 1,600 feetSummit elevation: 3,200 feetVertical drop: 1,600 feetSkiable acres: 320Average annual snowfall: 120 inchesTrail count: 67 (25% beginner, 30% intermediate, 45% advanced)Lift count: 13 (3 six-packs, 1 high-speed quad, 2 fixed-grip quads, 1 triple, 2 doubles, 1 platter, 3 carpets)Why I interviewed himSki areas are like political issues. We all feel as though we need to have an opinion on them. This tends to be less a considered position than an adjective. Tariffs are _______. Killington is _______. It's a bullet to shoot when needed. Most of us aren't very good shots.Hunter tends to draw a particularly colorful basket of adjectives: crowded, crazy, frantic, dangerous, icy, frozen, confusing, wild. Hunter, to the weekend visitor, appears to be teetering at all times on the brink of collapse. So many skiers on the lifts, so many skiers in the liftlines, so many skiers on the trails, so many skiers in the parking lots, so many skiers in the lodge pounding shots and pints. Whether Hunter is a ski area with a bar attached or a bar with a ski area attached is debatable. The lodge stretches on and on and up and down in disorienting and disconnected wings, a Winchester Mansion of the mountains, stapled together over eons to foil the alien hordes (New Yorkers). The trails run in a splintered, counterintuitive maze, an impossible puzzle for the uninitiated. Lifts fly all over, 13 total, of all makes and sizes and vintage, but often it feels as though there is only one lift and that lift is the Kaatskill Flyer, an overwhelmed top-to-bottom six-pack that replaced an overwhelmed top-to-bottom high-speed quad on a line that feels as though it would be overwhelmed with a high-speed 85-pack. It is, in other words, exactly the kind of ski area you would expect to find two hours north of a 20-million-person megacity world famous for its blunt, abrasive, and bare-knuckled residents.That description of Hunter is accurate enough, but incomplete. Yes, skiing there can feel like riding a swinging wrecking ball through a tenement building. And I would probably suggest that as a family activity before I would recommend Hunter on, say, MLK Saturday. But Hunter is also a glorious hunk of ski history, a last-man-standing of the once-skiing-flush Catskills, a nature-bending prototype of a ski mountain built in a place that lacks both consistent natural snow and fall lines to ski on. It may be a corporate cog now, but the Hunter hammered into the mountains over nearly six decades was the dream and domain of the Slutsky family, many of whom still work for the ski area. And Hunter, on a midweek, when all those fast lifts are 10 times more capacity than you need, can be a dream. Fast up, fast down. And once you learn the trail network, the place unfolds like a picnic blanket: easy, comfortable, versatile, filled with delicious options (if occasionally covered with ants).There's no one good way to describe Hunter Mountain. It's different every day. All ski areas are different every day, but Hunter is, arguably, more more different along the spectrum of its extremes than just about any other ski area anywhere. You won't get it on your first visit. You will show up on the wrong day, at the wrong time, in the wrong parking lot, and the whole thing will feel like playing lasertag with hyenas. Alien hyenas. Who will for some reason all be wearing Jets jerseys. But if you push through for that second visit, you'll start to get it. Maybe. I promise. And you'll understand why one-adjective Hunter Mountain descriptions are about as useful as the average citizen's take on NATO.What we talked aboutSixty-five years of Hunter; a nice cold winter at last; big snowmaking upgrades; snowmaking on Annapurna and Westway; the Otis and Broadway lift upgrades; Broadway ripple effects on the F and Kaatskill Flyer lifts; supervising the installation of seven new lifts at three Vail Resorts over a two-year period; better liftline management; moving away from lettered lift names; what Otis means for H lift; whether the Hunter East mountaintop Poma could ever spin again; how much of Otis is re-used from the old Broadway lift; ski Ohio; landing at Vail Resorts pre-Epic Pass and watching the pass materialize and grow; taking over for a GM who had worked at Hunter for 44 years; understanding and appreciating Hunter madness; Hunter locals mixed with Vail Resorts; Hunter North and the potential for an additional base area; disappearing trailmap glades; expansion potential; a better ski connection to Hunter East; and Epic Local as Hunter's season pass.Questions I wish I'd askedI'd wanted to ask Poole about the legacy of the Slutzky family, given their founding role at Hunter. We just didn't have time. New York Ski Blog has a nice historical overview.I actually did ask Poole about D lift, the onetime triple-now-double parallel to Kaatskill Flyer, but we cut that segment in edit. A summary: the lift didn't run at all this past season, and Poole told me that, “we're keeping our options open,” when I asked him if D lift was a good candidate to be removed at some near-future point.Why now was a good time for this interviewThe better question is probably why I waited five-and-a-half years to feature the leader of the most prominent ski area in New York City's orbit on the podcast. Hunter was, after all, the first mountain I hit after moving to the city in 2002. But who does and does not appear on the podcast is grounded in timing more than anything. Vail announced its acquisition of Hunter parent company Peak Resorts just a couple of months before I launched The Storm, in 2019. No one, including me, really likes doing podcast interviews during transitions, which can be filled with optimism and energy, but also uncertainty and instability. The Covid asteroid then transformed what should have been a one-year transition period into more like a three-year transition period, which was followed by a leadership change at Hunter.But we're finally here. And, as it turns out, this was a pretty good time to arrive. Part of the perpetual Hunter mess tied back to the problem I alluded to above: the six-pack-Kaatskill-Flyer-as-alpha-lift muted the impact of the lesser contraptions around it. By dropping a second superlift right next door, Vail appears to have finally solved the problem of the Flyer's ever-exploding liftline.That's one part of the story, and the most obvious. But the snowmaking upgrades on key trails signal Hunter's intent to reclaim its trophy as Snow God of the New York Thruway. And the shuffling of lifts on Hunter East reconfigured the ski area's novice terrain into a more logical progression (true green-circle skiers, however, will be better off at nearby Belleayre, where the Lightning Quad serves an incredible pod of long and winding beginner runs).These 2024 improvements build on considerable upgrades from the Peak and Slutzky eras, including the 2018 Hunter North expansion and the massive learning center at Hunter East. If Hunter is to remain a cheap and accessible Epic Pass fishing net to funnel New Yorkers north to Stowe and west to Park City, even as neighboring Windham tilts ever more restrictive and expensive, then Vail is going to have to be creative and aggressive in how the mountain manages all those skiers. These upgrades are a promising start.Why you should ski Hunter MountainThink of a thing that is a version of a familiar thing but hits you like a completely different thing altogether. Like pine trees and palm trees are both trees, but when I first encountered the latter at age 19, they didn't feel like trees at all, but like someone's dream of a tree who'd had one described to them but had never actually seen one. Or horses and dolphins: both animals, right? But one you can ride like a little vehicle, and the other supposedly breathes air but lives beneath the sea plotting our extinction in a secret indecipherable language. Or New York-style pizza versus Domino's, which, as Midwest stock, I prefer, but which my locally born wife can only describe as “not pizza.”This is something like the experience you will have at Hunter Mountain if you show up knowing a good lot about ski areas, but not much about this ski area. Because if I had to make a list of ski areas similar to Hunter, it would include “that Gwar concert I attended at Harpos in Detroit when I was 18” and “a high-tide rescue scene in a lifeguard movie.” And then I would run out of ideas. Because there is no ski area anywhere remotely like Hunter Mountain.I mean that as spectacle, as a way to witness New York City's id manifest into corporeal form. Your Hunter Mountain Bingo card will include “Guy straightlining Racer's Edge with unzipped Starter jacket and backward baseball cap” and “Dude rocking short-sleeves in 15-degree weather.” The vibe is atomic and combustible, slightly intimidating but also riotously fun, like some snowy Woodstock:And then there's the skiing. I have never skied terrain like Hunter's. The trails swoop and dive and wheel around endless curves, as though carved into the Tower of Babel, an amazing amount of terrain slammed into an area that looks and feels constrained, like a bound haybale that, twine cut, explodes across your yard. Trails crisscross and split and dig around blind corners. None of it feels logical, but it all comes together somehow. Before the advent of Google Maps, I could not plot an accurate mental picture of how Hunter East, West, North, and whatever the hell they call the front part sat in relation to one another and formed a coherent single entity.I don't always like being at Hunter. And yet I've skied there more than I've skied just about anywhere. And not just because it's close. It's certainly not cheap, and the road in from the Thruway is a real pain in the ass. But they reliably spin the lifts from November to April, and fast lifts on respectable vert can add up quick. And the upside of crazy? Everyone is welcome.Podcast NotesOn Hunter's lift upgradesHunter orchestrated a massive offseason lift upgrade last year, moving the old Broadway (B) lift over to Hunter East, where the mountain demolished a 1968 Hall Double named “E,” and planted its third six-pack on a longer Broadway line. Check the old lines versus the new ones:On six-packs in New York StateNew York is home to more ski areas than any other state, but only eight of them run high-speed lifts, and only three host six-packs: Holiday Valley has one, Windham, next door to Hunter, has another, and Hunter owns the other three.On five new lifts at Jack Frost Big BoulderPart of Vail Resorts' massive 2022 lift upgrades was to replace eight old chairlifts at Jack Frost and Big Boulder with five modern fixed-grip quads.At Jack Frost, Paradise replaced the E and F doubles; Tobyhanna replaced the B and C triples; and Pocono replaced the E and F doubles:Over at Big Boulder, the Merry Widow I and II double-doubles made way for the Harmony quad. Vail also demolished the parallel Black Forest double, which had not run in a number of years. Blue Heron replaced an area once served by the Little Boulder double and Edelweiss Triple – check the side-by-side with Big Boulder's 2008 trailmap:Standing up so many lifts in such a short time is rare, but we do have other examples:* In 1998, Intrawest tore down up to a dozen legacy lifts and replaced them with five new ones: two high-speed quads, two fixed-grip quads, and the Cabriolet bucket lift (basically a standing gondola). A full discussion on that here.* American Skiing Company installed at least four chairlifts at Sugarbush in the summer of 1995, including the Slide Brook Express, a two-mile-long lift connection between its two mountains. More here.* Powder Mountain installed four chairlifts last summer.* Deer Valley built five chairlifts last summer, including a bubble six-pack, and is constructing eight more lifts this year.On Mad River Mountain, OhioMad River is about as prototypical a Midwest ski area as you can imagine: 300 vertical feet, 144 acres, 36 inches of average annual snowfall, and an amazing (for that size) nine ski lifts shooting all over the place:On Vail Resorts' acquisition timelineHunter is one of 17 U.S. ski areas that Vail purchased as part of its 2019 acquisition of Peak Resorts.On Hunter's 2018 expansionWhen Peak opened the Hunter West expansion for the 2018-19 ski season, a number of new glades appeared on the map:Most of those glades disappeared from the map. Why? We discuss.On Epic Pass accessHunter sits on the same unlimited Epic Local Pass tier as Okemo, Mount Snow, Breckenridge, Keystone, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass. Here's an Epic Pass overview:You can also ski Hunter on the uber-cheap 32 Resorts version of the Epic Day Pass:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #198: Mammoth & June Mountains President & Chief Operating Officer Eric Clark

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 12, 2025 76:33

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and to support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.As of episode 198, you can now watch The Storm Skiing Podcast on YouTube. Please click over to follow the channel. The podcast will continue to stream on all audio platforms. WhoEric Clark, President and Chief Operating Officer of Mammoth and June Mountains, CaliforniaRecorded onJanuary 29, 2025Why I interviewed himMammoth is ridiculous, improbable, outrageous. An impossible combination of unmixable things. SoCal vibes 8,000 feet in the sky and 250 miles north of the megalopolis. Rustic old-California alpine clapboard-and-Yan patina smeared with D-Line speed and Ikon energy. But nothing more implausible than this: 300 days of sunshine and 350 inches of snow in an average year. Some winters more: 715 inches two seasons ago, 618 in the 2016-17 campaign, 669 in 2010-11. Those are base-area totals. Nearly 900 inches stacked onto Mammoth's summit during the 2022-23 ski season. The ski area opened on Nov. 5 and closed on Aug. 6, a 275-day campaign.Below the paid subscriber jump: why Mammoth stands out even among giants, June's J1 lift predates the evolution of plant life, Alterra's investment machine, and more.That's nature, audacious and brash. Clouds tossed off the Pacific smashing into the continental crest. But it took a soul, hardy and ungovernable, to make Mammoth Mountain into a ski area for the masses. Dave McCoy, perhaps the greatest of the great generation of American ski resort founders, strung up and stapled together and tamed this wintertime kingdom over seven decades. Ropetows then T-bars then chairlifts all over. One of the finest lift systems anywhere. Chairs 1 through 25 stitching together a trail network sculpted and bulldozed and blasted from the monolithic mountain. A handcrafted playground animated as something wild, fierce, prehuman in its savage ever-down. McCoy, who lived to 104, is celebrated as a businessman, a visionary, and a human, but he was also, quietly, an artist.Mammoth is not the largest ski area in America (ranking number nine), California (third behind Palisades and Heavenly), Alterra's portfolio (third behind Palisades and Steamboat), or the U.S. Ikon Pass roster (fifth after Palisades, Big Sky, Bachelor, and Steamboat). But it may be America's most beloved big ski resort, frantic and fascinating, an essential big-mountain gateway for 39 million Californians, an Ikon Pass icon and the spiritual home of Alterra Mountain Company. It's impossible to imagine American skiing without Mammoth, just as it's impossible to imagine baseball without the Yankees or Africa without elephants. To our national ski identity, Mammoth is an essential thing, like a heart to a human body, a part without which the whole function falls apart.About MammothClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Alterra Mountain Company, which also owns:Located in: Mammoth Lakes, CaliforniaYear founded: 1953Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: unlimited, no blackouts* Ikon Base Pass: unlimited, holiday blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: June Mountain – around half an hour if the roads are clear; to underscore the severity of the Sierra Nevada, China Peak sits just 28 miles southwest of Mammoth, but is a seven-hour, 450-mile drive away – in good weather.Base elevation: 7,953 feetSummit elevation: 11,053 feetVertical drop: 3,100 feetSkiable acres: 3,500Average annual snowfall: 350 inchesTrail count: 178 (13% easiest, 28% slightly difficult, 19% difficult, 25% very difficult, 15% extremely difficult)Lift count: 25 (1 15-passenger gondola, 1 two-stage, eight-passenger gondola, 4 high-speed six-packs, 8 high-speed quads, 1 fixed-grip quad, 6 triples, 3 doubles, 1 Poma – view Lift Blog's inventory of Mammoth's lift fleet) – the ski area also runs some number of non-public carpetsAbout JuneClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Alterra Mountain Company (see complete roster above)Located in: June Lake, CaliforniaYear founded: 1963Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: unlimited, no blackouts* Ikon Base Pass: unlimited, holiday blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: Mammoth Mountain – around half an hour if the roads are clearBase elevation: 7,545 feetSummit elevation: 10,090 feetVertical drop: 2,590 feetSkiable acres: 1,500 acresAverage annual snowfall: 250 inchesTrail count: 41Lift count: 6 (2 high-speed quads, 4 doubles – view Lift Blog's inventory of June Mountain's lift fleet)What we talked aboutMammoth's new lift 1; D-Line six-packs; deciding which lift to replace on a mountain with dozens of them; how the new lifts 1 and 16 redistributed skier traffic around Mammoth; adios Yan detachables; the history behind Mammoth's lift numbers; why upgrades to lifts 3 and 6 made more sense than replacements; the best lift system in America, and how to keep this massive fleet from falling apart; how Dave McCoy found and built Mammoth; retaining rowdy West Coast founder's energy when a mountain goes Colorado corporate; old-time Colorado skiing; Mammoth Lakes in the short-term rental era; potential future Mammoth lift upgrades; a potentially transformative future for the Eagle lift and Village gondola; why Mammoth has no public carpets; Mammoth expansion potential; Mammoth's baller parks culture, and what it takes to build and maintain their massive features; the potential of June Mountain; connecting to June's base with snowmaking; why a J1 replacement has taken so long; kids under 12 ski free at June; Ikon Pass access; changes incoming to Ikon Pass blackouts; the new markets that Ikon is driving toward Mammoth; improved flight service for Mammoth skiers; and Mammoth ski patrol.What I got wrong* I guessed that Mammoth likely paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 million for “Canyon and Broadway.” I meant that the new six-pack D-line lifts likely cost $15 million each.* I mentioned that Jackson Hole installed a new high-speed quad last year – I was referring to the Sublette chair.* I said that Steamboat's Wild Blue Gondola was “close to three miles long” – the full ride is 3.16 miles. Technically, the first and second stages of the gondola are separate machines, but riders experience them as one.Why now was a good time for this interviewTalk to enough employees of Alterra Mountain Company and a pattern emerges: an outsized number of high-level execs – the people building the mountain portfolio and the Ikon Pass and punching Vail in the face while doing it – came to the mothership, in some way or another, through Mammoth Mountain.Why is that? Such things can be a coincidence, but this didn't feel like it. Rusty Gregory, Alterra's CEO from 2018 to '23, entered that pilot's seat as a Mammoth lifer, and it was possible that he'd simply tagged in his benchmates. But Alterra and the Ikon Pass were functioning too smoothly to be the products of nepotism. This California ski factory seemed to be stamping out effective big-ideas people like an Italian plant cranking out Ferraris.Something about Mammoth just works. And that's remarkable, considering no one but McCoy thought that the place would work at all as a functional enterprise. A series of contemporary dumbasses told him that Mammoth was “too windy, too snowy, too high, too avalanche-prone, and too isolated” to work as a commercial ski area, according to The Snow Mag. That McCoy made Mammoth one of the most successful ski areas anywhere is less proof that the peanut gallery was wrong than that it took extraordinary will and inventiveness to accomplish the feat.And when a guy runs a ski area for 52 years, that ski area becomes a manifestation of his character. The people who succeed in working there absorb these same traits, whether of dysfunction or excellence. And Mammoth has long been defined by excellence.So, how to retain this? How does a ski area stitched so tightly to its founder's swashbuckling character fully transition to corporate-owned megapass headliner without devolving into an over-groomed volume machine for Los Angeles weekenders? How does a mountain that's still spinning 10 Yan fixed-grip chairs – the oldest dating to 1969 – modernize while D-Line sixers are running eight figures per install? And how does a set-footprint mountain lodged in remote wilderness continue to attract enough skiers to stay relevant, while making sure they all have a place to stay and ski once they get there?And then there's June. Like Pico curled up beside Killington, June, lost in Mammoth's podium flex, is a tiger dressed up like a housecat. At 1,500 acres, June is larger than Arapahoe Basin, Aspen Highlands, or Taos. It's 2,590-foot-vertical drop is roughly equal to that of Alta, Alyeska, or Copper (though June's bottom 1,000-ish vertical feet are often closed due to lack of lower-elevation snow). And while the terrain is not fierce, it's respectable, with hundreds of acres of those wide-open California glades to roll through.And yet skiers seem to have forgotten about the place. So, it can appear, has Alterra, which still shuffles skiers out of the base on a 1960 Riblet double chair that is the oldest operating aerial lift in the State of California. The mountain deserves better, and so do Ikon Pass holders, who can fairly expect that the machinery transporting them and their gold-plated pass uphill not predate the founding of the republic. That Alterra has transformed Deer Valley, Steamboat, and Palisades Tahoe with hundreds of millions of dollars of megalifts and terrain expansions over the past five years only makes the lingering presence of June's claptrap workhorse all the more puzzling.So in Mammoth and June we package both sides of the great contradiction of corporate ski area ownership: that whoever ends up with the mountain is simultaneously responsible for both its future and its past. Mammoth, fast and busy and modern, must retain the spirit of its restless founder. June, ornamented in quaint museum-piece machinery while charging $189 for a peak-day lift ticket, must justify its Ikon Pass membership by doing something other than saying “Yeah I'm here with Mammoth.” Has one changed too much, and the other not enough? Or can Alterra hit the Alta Goldilocks of fast lifts and big passes with throwback bonhomie undented?Why you should ski Mammoth and JuneIf you live in Southern California, go ahead and skip this section, because of course you've already skied Mammoth a thousand times, and so has everyone you know, and it will shock you to learn that there is anyone, anywhere, who has never skied this human wildlife park.But for anyone who's not in Southern California, Mammoth is remote and inconvenient. It is among the least-accessible big mountains in the country. It lacks the interstate adjacency of Tahoe, the Wasatch, and Colorado; the modernized airports funneling skiers into Big Sky and Jackson and Sun Valley (though this is changing); the cultural cachet that overcomes backwater addresses for Aspen and Telluride. Going to Mammoth, for anyone who can't point north on 395, just doesn't seem worth the hassle.It is worth the hassle. The raw statistical profile validates this. Big vert, big acreage, big snows, and big lift networks always justify the journey, even if Mammoth's remoteness fails to translate to emptiness in the way it does at, say, Taos or Revelstoke. But there is something to being Not Tahoe, a Sierra Nevada monster throwing off its own gravity rather than orbiting a mother lake with a dozen equals. Lacking the proximity to leave some things to more capable competitors, the way Tahoe resorts cede parks to Boreal or Northstar, or radness to Palisades and Kirkwood, Mammoth is compelled to offer an EveryBro mix of parks and cliffs and groomers and trees and bumps. It's a motley, magnificent scene, singular and electric, the sort of place that makes all realms beyond feel like a mirage.Mammoth does have one satellite, of course, and June Mountain fills the mothership's families-with-kids gap. Unlike Mammoth, June lets you use the carpet without an instructor. Kids 12 and under ski free. June is less crowded, less vodka-Red Bull, less California. And while the dated lifts can puzzle the Ikon tote-bagger who's last seven trips were through the detachable kingdoms of Utah and Colorado, there is a certain thrill to riding a chairlift that tugged its first passengers uphill during the Eisenhower administration.Podcast NotesOn Mammoth's masterplanOn Alterra pumping “a ton of money into its mountains”Tripling the size of Deer Valley. A massive terrain expansion and transformative infill gondola at Steamboat. The fusing of Palisades Tahoe's two sides to create America's second-largest interconnected ski area. New six-packs at Big Bear, Mammoth, Winter Park, and Solitude. Alterra is not messing around, as the Vail-Slayer continues to add mountains, add partners, and transform its portfolio of once-tired giants into dazzling modern megaresorts with billions in investment.On D-Line lifts “floating over the horizon”I mean just look at these things (Loon's Kancamagus eight on opening day, December 10, 2021 – video by Stuart Winchester):On severe accidents on Yan detachablesIn 2023, I wrote about Yan's detachable lift hellstorm:Cohee referenced a conversation he'd had with “Yan Kunczynski,” saying that, “obviously he had his issues.” If it's not obvious to the listener, here's what he was talking about: Kuncyznski founded Yan chairlifts in 1965. They were sound lifts, and the company built hundreds, many of which are still in operation today. However. Yan's high-speed lifts turned out to be death traps. Two people died in a 1985 accident at Keystone. A 9-year-old died in a 1993 accident at Sierra-at-Tahoe (then known as Sierra Ski Ranch). Two more died at Whistler in 1995. This is why all three detachable quads at Sierra-at-Tahoe date to 1996 – the mountain ripped out all three Yan machines following the accident, even though the oldest dated only to 1989.Several Yan high-speed detachables still run, but they have been heavily modified and retrofit. Superstar Express at Killington, for example, was “retrofitted with new Poma grips and sheaves as well as terminal modifications in 1994,” according to Lift Blog. In total, 15 ski areas, including Sun Valley, Schweitzer, Mount Snow, Mammoth, and Palisades Tahoe spent millions upgrading or replacing Yan detachable quads. The company ceased operations in 2001.Since that writing, many of those Yan detachables have met the scrapyard:* Killington will replace Superstar Express with a Doppelmayr six-pack this summer.* Sun Valley removed two of their Yan detachables – Greyhawk and Challenger – in 2023, and replaced them with a single Doppelmayr high-speed six-pack.* Sun Valley then replaced the Seattle Ridge Yan high-speed quad with a Doppelmayr six-pack in 2024.* Mammoth has replaced both of its Yan high-speed quads – Canyon and Broadway – with Doppelmayr D-line six-packs.* Though I didn't mention Sunday River above, it's worth noting that the mountain ripped out its Barker Yan detachable quad in 2023 for a D-Line Doppelmayr bubble sixer.I'm not sure how many of these Yan-detach jalopies remain. Sun Valley still runs four; June, two; and Schweitzer, Mount Snow, and Killington one apiece. There are probably others.On Mammoth's aging lift fleetMammoth's lift system is widely considered one of the best designed anywhere, and I have no doubt that it's well cared for. Still, it is a garage filled with as many classic cars as sparkling-off-the-assembly-line Aston Martins. Seventeen of the mountain's 24 aerial lifts were constructed before the turn of the century; 10 of those are Yan fixed- grips, the oldest dating to 1969. Per Lift Blog:On Rusty's tribute to Dave McCoyFormer Alterra CEO Rusty Gregory delivered an incredible encomium to Mammoth founder Dave McCoy on this podcast four years ago [18:08]:The audio here is jacked up in 45 different ways. I suppose I can admit now that this was because whatever broke-ass microphone I was using at the time sounded as though it had filtered my audio through a dying air-conditioner. So I had to re-record my questions (I could make out the audio well enough to just repeat what I had said during our actual chat), making the conversation sound like something I had created by going on Open AI and typing “create a podcast where it sounds like I interviewed Rusty Gregory.” Now I probably would have just asked to re-record it, but at the time I just felt lucky to get the interview and so I stapled together this bootleg track that sounds like something Eminem would have sold from the trunk of his Chevy Celebrity in 1994.More good McCoy stuff here and in the videos below:On Mammoth buying Bear and Snow SummitRusty also broke down Mammoth's acquisition of Bear Mountain and Snow Summit in that pod, at the 29:18 mark.On Mammoth super parksWhen I was a kid watching the Road Runner dominate Wile E. Coyote in zip-fall-splat canyon hijinks, I assumed it was the fanciful product of some lunatic's imagination. But now I understand that the whole serial was just an animation of Mammoth Superparks:I mean can you tell the difference?I'm admittedly impressed with the coyote's standing turnaround technique with the roller skis.On Pico beside KillingtonThe Pico-Killington dilemma echoes that of June-Mammoth, in which an otherwise good mountain looks like a less-good mountain because it sits next door to a really great mountain. As I wrote in 2023:Pico is funny. If it were anywhere else other than exactly next door to the largest ski area in New England, Pico might be a major ski area. Its 468 acres would make it the largest ski area in New Hampshire. A 2,000-foot vertical drop is impressive anywhere. The mountain has two high-speed lifts. And, by the way, knockout terrain. There is only one place in the Killington complex where you can run 2,000 vertical feet of steep terrain: Pico.On the old funitel at JuneCompounding the weirdness of J1's continued existence is the fact that, from 1986 to '96, a 20-passenger funitels ran on a parallel line:Clark explains why June removed this lift in the podcast.On kids under 12 skiing free at JuneThis is pretty amazing – per June's website:The free June Mountain Kids Season Pass gives your children under 12 unlimited access to June Mountain all season long. This replaces day tickets for kids, which are no longer offered. Everyone in your family must have a season pass or lift ticket. Your child's free season pass must be reserved in advance, and picked up in-person at the June Mountain Ticket Office. If your child has a birthday in our system that states they are older than 12 years of age, we will require proof of age to sell you a 12 and under season pass.I clarified with June officials that adults are not required to buy a season pass or lift ticket in order for their children to qualify for the free season pass.While it is unlikely that I will make it to June this winter, I signed my 8-year-old son up for a free season pass just to see how easy it was. It took about 12 seconds (he was already in Alterra's system, saving some time).On Alterra's whiplash Ikon Pass accessAlterra has consistently adjusted Ikon Pass access to meter volume and appease its partner mountains:On Mammoth's mammoth snowfallsMammoth's annual snowfalls tend to mirror the boom-bust cycles of Tahoe, with big winters burying the Statue of Liberty (715 inches at the base over the 2022-23 winter), and others underperforming the Catskills (94 inches in the winter of 1976-77). Here are the mountain's official year-by-year and month-by-month tallies. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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S2 E25 I'm Just Here For the Party | Rich Stoner of All About Après

Cocktails With Friends

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 17, 2025 18:32

S2 E25 I'm Just Here For The Party Rich Stoner, founder of All About Après, joins Bob Culter to discuss the vibrant après-ski culture, sharing his favorite bars, foods, and cocktails while highlighting the camaraderie that defines the experience. From Cousins Bar at Mount Snow to French après traditions in Chamonix, Rich paints a picture of ski towns buzzing with energy, great music, and creative food and drinks. Key Topics The essentials of après-ski culture: Atmosphere, food, and signature cocktails. Rich's favorite ski bars and mountains, including top U.S. spots and upcoming European adventures. The evolution of après-ski trends, from Bavarian pretzels to high-end cocktails and unique mountain experiences. Episode Index (1:57) - The origin of All About Après: Born during car rides to Vermont, the brand celebrates the food, drinks, and culture surrounding skiing. (5:16) - When does après-ski start? For Rich, it begins whenever the ski day ends—sometimes as early as 10:30 AM on bad weather days. (9:03) - What makes a great après bar: A mix of energy, vibrant bartenders, live music, and creative food menus. (14:02) - Signature drinks: Bloody Marys, margaritas, and creative cocktails like those at High West Distillery in Park City. (16:46) - Upcoming trip to Chamonix: Rich shares excitement for skiing in France and indulging in fondue, raclette, and chartreuse.

france french european rich vermont signature atmosphere bloody mary stoner park city bavarian chamonix high west distillery mount snow

Podcast #194: Worcester Telegram & Gazette Snowsports Columnist Shaun Sutner

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 7, 2025 87:11

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Dec. 31. It dropped for free subscribers on Jan. 7. To receive future episodes as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoShaun Sutner, snowsports columnist for the Worcester Telegram & Gazette and Telegram.comRecorded onNovember 25, 2024About Shaun SutnerSutner is a skier, writer, and journalist based in Worcester, Massachusetts. He's written a snowsports column for the Worcester Telegram & Gazette from Thanksgiving to April for the past several decades. You can follow Shaun on social media to stay locked into his work:Read his recent columns:* On Wildcat, Attitash, and Vail Resorts* Everyone needs a bootfitter* Indy Pass is still kicking assWhy I interviewed himJournalism sounds easy. Go there, talk to people, write about it. It's not easy. The quest for truth is like the Hobbit's quest for the ring: long, circuitous, filled with monsters who want to eat you. Some truth is easy: Wachusett has four chairlifts. Beyond the objective, complications arise: Wachusett's decision to replace its summit quad with a six-pack in 2025 is… what, exactly? Visionary, shortsighted, foolish, clever, pedestrian? Does it prioritize passholders or marketing or profit over experience? Is it necessary? Is it wise? Is it prudent? Is it an answer to locals' frustrations or a compounding factor in it?The journalist's job is to machete through this jungle and sculpt a version of reality that all parties will recognize and that none of them will be entirely happy with. Because people are complex and so is the world, and assembling the truth is less like snapping together a thousand-piece puzzle and more like the A-Team examining a trashheap and saying “OK boys, let's build a helicopter.”Sutner is good at this, as may be expected of someone who's spent decades on his beat. He understands that anecdote is not absolute. He knows how to pull together broad narratives (“New England's outdated lift fleet” of the 2010s), and to acknowledge when they change (“New England operators aggressively modernize lifts” in the 2020s). He is empathetic to locals and operators alike, without being deferential to either. He knows that the best stories are 90 percent what the writer leaves out, and 10 percent identifying the essential bits to frame the larger whole. And he lives the beat, aggressively, joyously, immersively.We need more Sutners, but we are probably getting fewer. As journalism figures out what it is in the 21st century, it is deciding that it is less about community-based entities employing beat-specific writers and more about feeding mastheads to private equity funds that drag the carcass down to entrails and then feed them to the hounds. Thousands of American communities now have no local news organization, let alone one with the resources to hire writers solely devoted to something as niche as skiing. Filling the information void is Angry Ski Bro, firing off 50 dozen monthly Facebook posts about Vail's abominable greed being distilled in a broken snowgun at Wildcat.I started The Storm as an antidote to this global complaint box. And I believe that the future of journalism includes writers tapping Substack and similar platforms to freelance the truth. But I still believe that the traditional news organization – meaning physical newspapers that have evolved into digital-analogue hybrids – can find a sustainable business model that tells a community's essential stories. Sutner, and the Worcester Telegram & Gazette, deserve credit for showing us how to do this.What we talked aboutSki South America; how to ski 60 days while working full time; Worcester's legendary Strand's ski shop; Powdr's sale of Killington and Pico and how the new owners can keep from ruining it; how to make Pico more relevant; is this the start of New England ski area deconsolidation?; Smuggs; Black Mountain, New Hampshire's co-op quest; taking stock of New England consolidation; Vail Resorts' New England GM shuffle; New England's chairlift renaissance; what is New England's new most-hated lift?; why New England needs more surface lifts; a new sixer coming to Wachusett; the legacy of Wachusett's David Crowley; why Wachusett works; and what we lose with consolidation.What we got wrongOn whatever that city is calledI probably still can't pronounce “Worcester.” Just congratulate yourself if you can, and keep moving.On South American skiingI said in our conversation that there were “40 or so ski areas” in South America. I've not taken my magnifying glass to the region as I have with Real America, but I made this quick-hitter chart earlier this year that counted just 26 on the continent, all of them in Chile and Argentina:This map on skiresort.info counts 45 South American ski areas, including a sporadically operating area in Bolivia and one indoor and one artificial-turf area in Brazil. Someday I'll do a cross-check with my list, but that day is not today.On which county Killington lives inNeither of us knew which county Killington is in, but he suggested Windham County. The correct answer is Rutland County.On The Man owning our ski centersWhen discussing state-owned ski areas, Sutner didn't remember that New Hampshire owns Cannon and Vail-operated Sunapee, and I didn't remember to remind him.On Black Mountain, New HampshireWe recorded this prior to Black outlining its plans for a transition to co-op ownership. Mountain leadership has since released more details:On Mad River Glen's snowmaking hard stopI noted that Mad River Glen only makes snow up to “2,000-whatever feet.” The actual number, as proclaimed by some past assemblage of the MRG co-op, is 2,200 feet. Though perhaps raising that by a couple hundred feet would have spared them from spending a fat stack to build a double-chair midstation this year.On Vail's GM shuffleWhen we recorded this conversation, Vail-owned Wildcat, Mount Snow, and Crotched had general manager vacancies. The company has since filled all three (click through on the links above).On Sugarloaf's T-barIn our discussion on surface lifts, Sutner references a T-bar to Sugarloaf's summit. The Bateau T-bar does land quite high on the mountain, but it stops short of the summit and snowfields.On Waterville Valley's T-barsWaterville's T-bar game is way ahead of most New England ski areas. Two of them serve lower-mountain race or race-training trails, and one serves the mountain's top 400 vertical feet, replacing the windhold-prone chairlifts that once ran to the summit. While two of the T-bars run parallel to terrain parks, serving them does not appear to be the lifts' direct purpose, as we debated on the podcast.On Vail's high-speed “T-bars”I mixed up my lift types when describing the high-speed surface lifts that Vail runs at its Midwest mountains. They are ropetows, not T-bars. Here they go at Afton Alps, Minnesota:Afton Alps, Minnesota. Video by Stuart Winchester.On Wachusett upgradesSutner noted that Wachusett's coming summit six-pack would be its first big infrastructure upgrade in 20 years, but the mountain installed the 299-vertical-foot Monadnock Express quad in 2011.On Berkshire East's T-Bar ExpressSutner said that last year was Berkshire East's second season running its T-Bar Express high-speed quad, but the lift first spun for the 2023-24 ski season. The current, 2024-25 season is the lift's second.On Sutner's ski daysWe recorded this a while ago, and Sutner had clocked eight ski days before Thanksgiving. As of Dec. 30, he'd hit 21 days, well along to his 60-day goal.Podcast NotesOn Cerro CatedralI'm somewhat obsessed with this 3,773-vertical-foot, 1,500-acre Argentinian monster:On Shaun's Worcester Living articleSutner wrote up his Argentinian ski adventure for Worcester Living magazine. The story starts on page 20.On Powdr's sale of Killington and PicoIn case you missed it:On New England consolidationNew England's 100-ish ski areas are largely independently owned and operated. These 25 are run by an entity that operates at least two ski areas:On Intrawest and American Skiing CompanyIt's impossible to discuss the history of New England ski area consolidation without acknowledging the now-dead Intrawest and American Skiing Company. On Vail's management shuffleI wrote about this recently:I launched The Storm in October 2019, when Vail owned 34 North American ski areas. To the best of my knowledge, just three of those ski areas' general manager-level leaders remain where they were on that date: Vail Mountain VP/COO Beth Howard, Okemo VP/GM Bruce Schmidt, and Boston Mills-Brandywine GM Jake Campbell. Compare this to Boyne, where nine of 10 mountain leaders either remain in their 2019 roles, or have since ascended to them after working at the resort for decades, often replacing legends retiring after long careers. Alterra and Powdr have demonstrated similar stability. Meanwhile, Vail's seven New England Resorts enter this winter with just two mountains – Okemo and Attitash – under the same general manager that ran them in the spring.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 90/100 in 2024, and number 590 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. 2024 will continue until the 100-article threshold is achieved, regardless of what that pesky calendar says. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #192: Mount Sunapee GM (and former Crotched GM) Susan Donnelly

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 6, 2024 76:10

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 29. It dropped for free subscribers on Dec. 6. To receive future episodes as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoSusan Donnelly, General Manager of Mount Sunapee (and former General Manager of Crotched Mountain)Recorded onNovember 4, 2024About CrotchedClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail Resorts, which also owns:Located in: Francetown, New HampshireYear founded: 1963 (as Crotched East); 1969 (as Onset, then Onset Bobcat, then Crotched West, now present-day Crotched); entire complex closed in 1990; West re-opened by Peak Resorts in 2003 as Crotched MountainPass affiliations:* Epic Pass, Epic Local Pass, Northeast Value Epic Pass: unlimited access* Northeast Midweek Epic Pass: midweek access, including holidaysClosest neighboring public ski areas: Pats Peak (:34), Granite Gorge (:39), Arrowhead (:41), McIntyre (:50), Mount Sunapee (:51)Base elevation: 1,050 feetSummit elevation: 2,066 feetVertical drop: 1,016Skiable Acres: 100Average annual snowfall: 65 inchesTrail count: 25 (28% beginner, 40% intermediate, 32% advanced)Lift count: 5 (1 high-speed quad, 1 fixed-grip quad, 1 triple, 1 double, 1 surface lift – view Lift Blog's inventory of Crotched's lift fleet)History: Read New England Ski History's overview of Crotched MountainAbout Mount SunapeeClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: The State of New Hampshire; operated by Vail Resorts, which also operates resorts detailed in the chart above.Located in: Newbury, New HampshireYear founded: 1948Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass, Epic Local Pass, Northeast Value Epic Pass: unlimited access* Northeast Midweek Epic Pass: midweek access, including holidaysClosest neighboring public ski areas: Pats Peak (:28), Whaleback (:29), Arrowhead (:29), Ragged (:38), Veterans Memorial (:42), Ascutney (:45), Crotched (:48), Quechee (:50), Granite Gorge (:51), McIntyre (:53)Base elevation: 1,233 feetSummit elevation: 2,743 feetVertical drop: 1,510 feetSkiable Acres: 233 acresAverage annual snowfall: 130 inchesTrail count: 67 (29% beginner, 47% intermediate, 24% advanced)Lift count: 8 (2 high-speed quads, 1 fixed-grip quad, 2 triples, 3 conveyors – view Lift Blog's inventory of Mount Sunapee's lift fleet.)History: Read New England Ski History's overview of Mount SunapeeWhy I interviewed herIt's hard to be small in New England and it's hard to be south in New England. There are 35 New England ski areas with vertical drops greater than 1,100 feet, and Crotched is not one of them. There are 44 New England ski areas that average more than 100 inches of snow per winter, and Crotched is not one of those either. Crotched does have a thousand vertical feet and a high-speed lift and a new baselodge and a snowmaking control room worthy of a nuclear submarine. Which is a pretty good starter kit for a successful ski area. But it's not enough in New England.To succeed as a ski area in New England, you need a Thing. The most common Things are to be really really nice or really really gritty. Stratton or Mad River. Okemo or Magic. Sunday River or Black Mountain of Maine. The pitch is either “you'll think you're at Deer Valley” or “you'll descend the hill on ice skates and you'll like it.” But Crotched's built-along-a-state-highway normalness precludes arrogance, and its mellow terrain lacks the attitude for even modest braggadocio. It's not a small ski area, but it's not big enough to be a mid-sized one, either. The terrain is fine, but it's not the kind of place you need to ski on purpose, or more than once. It's a fine local, but not much else, making Crotched precisely the kind of mountain that you would have expected to be smothered by the numerous larger and better ski areas around it before it could live to see the internet. And that's exactly what happened. Crotched, lacking a clear Thing, went bust in 1990.The ski area, undersized and average, should have melted back into the forest by now. But in 2002, then-budding Peak Resorts crept out of its weird Lower Midwest manmade snowhole on a reverse Lewis & Clark Expedition to explore the strange and murky East. And as they hacked away the brambles around Crotched's boarded-up baselodge, they saw not a big pile of mediocrity, but a portal into the gold-plated New England market. And they said “this could work if we can just find a Thing.” And that Thing was night-skiing with attitude, built on top of $10 million in renovations that included a built-from-scratch snowmaking system.The air above the American mountains is filled with such wild notions. “We're going to save Mt. Goatpath. It's going to be bigger than Vail and deeper than Alta and higher than Telluride.” And everyone around them is saying, “You know this is, like, f*****g Connecticut, right?” But if practical concerns killed all bad ideas, then no one would keep reptiles as pets. Everyone else is happy with cats or dogs, sentient mammals of kindred disposition with humans, but this idiot needs a 12-foot-long boa constrictor that he keeps in a 6x3 fishtank. It helps him get chicks or something. It's his thing. And damned if it doesn't work.What we talked aboutTransitioning from smaller, Vail-owned Crotched to larger, state-owned but Vail-operated Sunapee; “weather-proofing” Sunapee; Crotched and Sunapee – so close but so different; reflecting on the Okemo days under Triple Peaks ownership; longtime Okemo head Bruce Schmidt; reacting to Vail's 2018 purchase of Triple Peaks; living through change; the upside of acquisitions; integrating Peak Resorts; skiing's boys' club; Vail Resorts' culture of women's advancement; why Covid uniquely challenged Crotched among Vail's New England properties; reviving Midnight Madness; Crotched's historic downsizing; whether the lost half of Crotched could ever be re-developed; why Crotched 2.0 is more durable than the version that shut down in 1990; Crotched's baller snowmaking system; southern New Hampshire's wild weather; thoughts on future Crotched infrastructure; and considering a beginner trail from Crotched's summit.Why now was a good time for this interviewAs we swing toward the middle of the 2020s, it's pretty lame to continue complaining about operational malfunctions in the so-called Covid season of 2020-21, but I'm going to do it anyway.Some ski areas did a good job operating that season. For example, Pats Peak. Pats Peak was open seven days per week that winter. Pats Peak offered night skiing on all the days it usually offers night skiing. Pats Peak made the Ross Ice Shelf jealous with its snowmaking firepower. Pats Peak acted like a snosportskiing operation that had operated a snosportskiing operation in previous winters. Pats Peak did a good job.Other ski areas did a bad job operating that season. For example, Crotched. Crotched was open whenever it decided to be open, which was not very often. Crotched, one of the great night-skiing centers in New England, offered almost no night skiing. Crotched's snowmaking looked like what happens when you accidentally keep the garden hose running during an overnight freeze. Crotched did a bad job.This is a useful comparison, because these two ski areas sit just 21 miles and 30 minutes apart. They are dealing with the same crappy weather and the same low-altitude draw. They are both obscured by the shadows of far larger ski areas scraping the skies just to the north. They are both small and unserious places, where the skiing is somewhat beside the point. Kids go there to pole-click one another's skis off of moving chairlifts. College kids go there to alternate two laps with two rounds at the bar. Adults go there to shoo the kids onto the chairlifts and burn down happy hour. No one shows up in either parking lot expecting Jackson Hole.But Crotched Mountain is owned by Vail Resorts. Pats Peak is owned by the same family of good-old boys who built the original baselodge from logs sawed straight off the mountain in 1962. Vail Resorts has the resources to send a container full of sawdust to the moon just to see what happens when it's opened. Most of Pats Peaks' chairlifts came used from other ski areas. These two are not drawing from the same oil tap.And yet, one of them delivered a good product during Covid, and the other did not. And the ones who did are not the ones that their respective pools of resources would suggest. And so the people who skied Pats Peak that year were like “Yeah that was pretty good considering everything else kind of sucks right now.” And the people who skied Crotched that season were like “Well that sucked even worse than everything else does right now, and that's saying something.”And that's the mess that Donnelly inherited when she took the GM job at Crotched in 2021. And it took a while, but she fixed it. And that's harder than it should be when your parent company can deploy sawdust rockets on a whim.What I got wrong* I said that Colorado has 35 active ski areas. The correct number is 34, or 33 if we exclude Hesperus, which did not operate last winter, and is not scheduled to reactivate anytime soon.* I said that Bruce Schmidt was the “president and general manager” of Okemo. His title is “Vice President and General Manager.” Sorry about that, Bruce.* I said that Okemo's season pass was “closing in on $2,000” when Vail came along. According to New England Ski History, Okemo's top season pass price hit $1,375 for the 2017-18 ski season, the last before Vail purchased the resort. This appears to be a big cut from the 2016-17 season, when the top price was $1,619. My best guess is that Okemo dropped their pass prices after Vail purchased Stowe, lowering that mountain's pass price from $2,313 for the 2016-17 ski season to just $899 (an Epic Pass) the next.* I said that 80 percent-plus of my podcasts featured interviews with men. I examined the inventory, and found that of the 210 podcasts I've published (192 Storm Skiing Podcasts, 12 Covid pods, 6 Live pods), only 33, or 15.7 percent, included a female guest. Only 23 of those (11 percent), featured a woman as the only guest. And three of those podcasts were with one person: former NSAA CEO Kelly Pawlak. So either my representation sucks, or the ski industry's representation sucks, but probably it's both.Why you should ski CrotchedUpper New England doesn't have a lot of night skiing, and the night skiing it does have is mostly underwhelming. Most of the large resorts – Killington, Sugarbush, Smuggs, Stowe, Sugarloaf, Waterville, Cannon, Stratton, Mount Snow, Okemo, Attitash, Wildcat, etc. – have no night skiing at all. A few of the big names – Bretton Woods, Sunday River, Cranmore – provide a nominal after-dark offering, a lift and a handful of trails. The bulk of the night skiing in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine involves surface lifts at community-run bumps with the vertical drop of a Slip N' Slide.But a few exceptions tower into the frosty darkness: Pleasant Mountain, Maine; Pats Peak, New Hampshire; and Bolton Valley, Vermont all deliver big vertical drops, multiple chairlifts, and a spiderweb of trails for night skiers. Boyne-owned Pleasant, with 1,300 vertical feet served by a high-speed quad, is the most extensive of these, but the second-most expansive night-skiing operation in New England lives at Crotched.Parked less than an hour from New Hampshire's four largest cities – Manchester, Nashua, Concord, and Derry – Crotched is the rare northern New England ski area that can sustain an after-hours business (New Hampshire, Maine, and Vermont are ranked numbers 41, 42, and 49 among U.S. states by population, respectively, with a three-state total of just 3.5 million residents). With four chairlifts spinning, every trail lit, Park Brahs on patrol, first-timers lined up at the rental shop, Bomber Bro straightlining Pluto's Plunge in his unzipped Celtics jacket, the parking lots jammed, and the scritch-scratch of edges on ice shuddering across the night, it's an amazing scene, a lantern of New England Yeah Dawg zest floating in the winter night.No, Crotched night skiing isn't what it used to be, when Peak Resorts kept the joint bumping until 3 a.m. And the real jammer, Midnight Madness, hits just a half dozen days per winter. But it's still a uniquely New England scene, a skiing spectacle that can double as a night-cap after a day shredding Cannon or Waterville or Mount Snow.Podcast NotesOn my recent Sunapee podI tend to schedule these interviews several months in advance, and sometimes things change. One of the things that changed between when I scheduled this conversation and when we recorded it was Donnelly's job. She moved from Crotched, which I had never spotlighted on the podcast, to Sunapee, which I just featured a few months ago. Which means, Sunapee Nation, that we don't really talk much about Mount Sunapee on this podcast that has Mount Sunapee in the headline. But pretty much everything I talked about in June with former Sunapee GM Peter Disch (who's now VP of Mountain Ops at Vail's Heavenly), is still relevant:On historic CrotchedCrotched was once a much larger resort forged from two onetime independent side-by-side ski areas. The whole history of it is a bit labyrinthian and involves bad decisions, low snow years, and unpaid taxes (read the full tale at New England Ski History), but the upshot was this interconnected animal, shown here at its 1988-ish peak:The whole Crotched complex dropped dead around 1990, and would have likely stayed that way forever had Missouri-based Peak Resorts not gotten the insane idea to dig a lost New England ski area up from the graveyard. Somewhat improbably, they succeeded, and the contemporary Crotched (minus the summit quad, which came later), opened in 2003. The current ski area sits on what was formerly known as “Crotched West,” and before that “Bobcat,” and before that (or perhaps at the same time), “Onset.” Trails on the original Crotched Mountain, at Crotched East (left on the trailmap above), are still faintly visible from above (on the right below, between the “Crotched Mountain” and “St. John Enterprise” dots):On Triple Peaks and OkemoTriple Peaks was the umbrella company that owned Okemo, Vermont; Mount Sunapee, New Hampshire; and Crested Butte, Colorado. The owners, the Mueller family, sold the whole outfit to Vail Resorts in 2018. Longtime Okemo GM Bruce Schmidt laid out the whole history on the podcast earlier this year:On Crotched's lift fleetPeak got creative building Crotched's lift fleet. The West double, a Hall installed by Jesus himself in 400 B.C., had sat in the woods through Crotched's entire 13-year closure and was somehow reactivated for the revival. The Rover triple and the Valley and Summit quads came from a short-lived 1,000-vertical-foot Virginia ski area called Cherokee.What really nailed Crotched back to the floor, however, was the 2012 acquisition of a used high-speed quad from bankrupt Ascutney, Vermont.Peak flagrantly dubbed this lift the “Crotched Rocket,” a name that Vail seems to have backed away from (the lift is simply “Rocket” on current trailmaps).Fortunately, Ascutney lived on as a surface-lifts-only community bump even after its beheading. You can still skin and ski the top trails if you're one of those people who likes to make skiing harder than it needs to be:On Peak ResortsPeak Resorts started in, of all places, Missouri. The company slowly acquired small-but-busy suburban ski areas, and was on its way to Baller status when Vail purchased the whole operation in 2019. Here's a loose acquisition timeline:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 81/100 in 2024, and number 581 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #191: Stratton Mountain President & COO Matt Jones

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 20, 2024 82:00

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 13. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 20. To receive future episodes as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoMatt Jones, President and Chief Operating Officer of Stratton Mountain, VermontRecorded onNovember 11, 2024About Stratton MountainClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Alterra Mountain Company, which also owns:Located in: Winhall, VermontYear founded: 1962Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: Unlimited* Ikon Base Pass: Unlimited, holiday blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: Bromley (:18), Magic (:24), Mount Snow (:28), Hermitage Club (:33), Okemo (:40), Brattleboro (:52)Base elevation: 1,872 feetSummit elevation: 3,875 feetVertical drop: 2,003 feetSkiable Acres: 670Average annual snowfall: 180 inchesTrail count: 99 (40% novice, 35% intermediate, 16% advanced, 9% expert)Lift count: 14 (1 ten-passenger gondola, 4 six-packs, 1 high-speed quad, 2 fixed-grip quads, 1 triple, 1 double, 4 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Stratton's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himI don't know for sure how many skier visits Stratton pulls each winter, or where the ski area ranks among New England mountains for busyness. Historical data suggests a floor around 400,000 visits, likely good for fifth in the region, behind Killington, Okemo, Sunday River, and Mount Snow. But the exact numbers don't really matter, because the number of skiers that ski at Stratton each winter is many manys. And the number of skiers who have strong opinions about Stratton is that exact same number.Those numbers make Stratton more important than it should be. This is not the best ski area in Vermont. It's not even Alterra's best ski area in Vermont. Jay, MRG, Killington, Smuggs, Stowe, and sister resort Sugarbush are objectively better mountains than Stratton from a terrain point of view (they also get a lot more snow). But this may be one of the most crucial mountains in Alterra's portfolio, a doorway to the big-money East, a brand name for skiers across the region. Stratton is the only ski area that advertises in the New York City Subway, and has for years.But Stratton's been under a bit of stress. The lift system is aging. The gondola is terrible. Stratton was one of those ski areas that was so far ahead of the modernization curve – the mountain had four six-packs by 2001 – that it's now in the position of having to update all of that expensive stuff all at once. And as meaningful updates have lagged, Stratton's biggest New England competitors are running superlifts up the incline at a historic pace, while Alterra lobs hundreds of millions at its western megaresorts. Locals feel shafted, picketing an absentee landlord that they view as negligent. Meanwhile, the crowds pile up, as unlimited Ikon Pass access has holstered the mountain in hundreds of thousands of skiers' wintertime battle belts.If that all sounds a little dramatic, it only reflects the messages in my inbox. I think Alterra has been cc'd on at least some of those emails, because the company is tossing $20 million at Stratton this season, a sum that Jones tells us is just the beginning of massive long-term investment meant to reinforce the mountain's self-image as a destination on its own.What we talked aboutStratton's $20 million offseason; Act 250 masterplanning versus U.S. Forest Service masterplanning; huge snowmaking upgrades and aspirations; what $8 million gets you in employee housing these days; big upgrades for the Ursa and American Express six-packs; a case for rebuilding lifts rather than doing a tear-down and replace; a Tamarack lift upgrade; when Alterra's investment firehose could shift east; leaving Tahoe for Vermont; what can be done about that gondola?; the Kidderbrook lift; parking; RFID; Ikon Pass access levels; and $200 to ski Stratton.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewHow pissed do you think the Punisher was when Disney announced that Ant Man would be the 12th installment in Marvel's cinematic universe? I imagine him seated in his lair, polishing his grenades. “F*****g Ant Man?” He throws a grenade into one of his armored Jeeps, which disintegrates in a supernova of steel parts, tires, and smoke. “Ant Man. Are you f*****g serious with this? I waited through eleven movies. Eleven. Iron Man got three. Thor and Captain f*****g America got two apiece. The Hulk. Two Avengers movies. Something called ‘Guardians of the Galaxy,' about a raccoon and a talking tree that save the goddamn universe or some s**t. And it was my turn, Man. My. Turn. Do these idiots not know that I had three individual comic lines published concurrently in the 1990s? Do they not know that I'm ranked as the ninth-greatest Marvel superhero of all time on this nerd list? Do you know where Ant Man is ranked on that list? Huh? Well, I'll tell you: number 131, behind Rocket Raccoon, U-Go Girl, and Spider Man 2099, whatever the hell any of those are.” The vigilante then loads his rocket launcher and several machine guns into a second armored Jeep, and sets off in search of jaywalkers to murder.Anyway I imagine that's how Stratton felt as it watched the rest of Alterra's cinematic universe release one blockbuster after another. “Oh, OK, so Steamboat not only gets a second gondola, but they get a 600-acre terrain expansion served by their eighth high-speed quad? And it wasn't enough to connect the two sides of Palisades Tahoe with a gondola, but you threw in a brand-new six-pack? And they're tripling the size of Deer Valley. Tripling. 3,700 acres of new terrain and 16 new lifts and a new base village to go with it. That's equal to five-and-a-half Strattons. And Winter Park gets a new six-pack, and Big Bear gets a new six-pack, and Mammoth gets two. Do you have any idea how much these things cost? And I can't even get a gondola that can withstand wind gusts over three miles per hour? Even goddamn Snowshoe – Snowshoe – got a new lift before I did. I didn't even think West Virginia was actually a real place. I swear if these f*****s announce a new June Mountain out-of-base lift before I get my bling, things are gonna get Epic around here.”Well, it's finally Stratton's turn, with $20 million in upgrades inbound. Alterra wasn't exactly mining the depths of locals' dreams to decide where to deploy the cash – snowmaking, employee housing, lift overhauls – and a gondola replacement isn't coming anytime soon, but they're pretty smart investments when you dig into them. Which we do.Questions I wish I'd askedAmong the items that I would have liked to have discussed given more time: the Appalachian Trail's path across the top of Stratton Mountain, Stratton as birthplace of modern snowboarding, and the Stratton Mountain School.What I got wrong* I said that Epic Pass access had remained mostly unchanged for the past decade, which is not quite right. When Vail first added Stowe to the Epic Local Pass for the 2017-18 season, they slotted the resort into the bucket of 10 days shared with Vail, Beaver Creek, and Whistler. At some point, Stowe received its own basket of 10 days, apart from the western resorts.* I said that Sunday River's Jordan eight-pack was wind-resistant “because of the weight.” While that is one factor, the lift's ability to run in high winds relies on a more complex set of anti-sway technology, none of which I really understand, but that Sunday River GM Brian Heon explained on The Storm earlier this year:Why you should ski StrattonA silent skiing demarcation line runs roughly along US 4 through Vermont. Every ski area along or above this route – Killington, Pico, Sugarbush, Mad River Glen, Stowe, Smuggs – lets trails bump up, maintains large glade networks, and generally provides you with balanced, diverse terrain. Everything below that line – Okemo, Bromley, Mount Snow – generally don't do any of these things, or offer them sporadically, and in the most shrunken form possible. There are some exceptions on both sides. Saskadena Six, a bump just north of US 4, operates more like the Southies. Magic, in the south, better mirrors the MRG/Sugarbush model. And then there's Stratton.Good luck finding bumps at Stratton. Maybe you'll stumble onto the remains of a short competition course here or there, but, generally, this is a groom-it-all-every-day kind of ski area. Which would typically make it a token stop on my annual rounds. But Stratton has one great strength that has long made it a quasi-home mountain for me: glades.The glade network is expansive and well-maintained. The lines are interesting and, in places, challenging. You wouldn't know this from the trailmap, which portrays the tree-skiing areas as little islands lodged onto Stratton's hulk. But there are lots of them, and they are plenty long. On a typical pow day, I'll park at Sun Bowl and ski all the glades from Test Pilot over to West Pilot and back. It takes all day and I barely touch a groomer.And the glades are open more often than you'd think. While northern Vermont is the undisputed New England snow king, with everything from Killington north counting 250-plus inches in an average winter, the so-called Golden Triangle of Stratton, Bromley, and Magic sits in a nice little micro-snow-pocket. And Stratton, the skyscraping tallest peak in that region of the state, devours a whole bunch (180 inches on average) to fill in those glades.And if you are Groomer Greg, you're in luck: Stratton has 99 of them. And the grooming is excellent. Just start early, because they get scraped off by the NYC hordes who camp out there every weekend. The obsessive grooming does make this a good family spot, and the long green trail from the top down to the base is one of the best long beginner runs anywhere.Podcast NotesOn Act 250This is the 20th Vermont-focused Storm Skiing Podcast, and I think we've referenced Act 250 in all of them. If you're unfamiliar with this law, it is, according to the official state website:…Vermont's land use and development law, enacted in 1970 at a time when Vermont was undergoing significant development pressure. The law provides a public, quasi-judicial process for reviewing and managing the environmental, social and fiscal consequences of major subdivisions and developments in Vermont. It assures that larger developments complement Vermont's unique landscape, economy and community needs. One of the strengths of Act 250 is the access it provides to neighbors and other interested parties to participate in the development review process. Applicants often work with neighbors, municipalities, state agencies and other interested groups to address concerns raised by a proposed development, resolving issues and mitigating impacts before a permit application is filed.On Stratton's masterplanStratton is currently updating its masterplan. It will retain some elements of this 2013 version. Some elements of this – most notably a new Snow Bowl lift in 2018 – have been completed:One curious element of this masterplan is the proposed lift up the Kidderbrook trail – around 2007, Stratton removed a relatively new (installed 1989) Poma fixed-grip quad from that location. Here it is on the far left-hand side of the 2005 trailmap:On Stratton's ownership historyStratton's history mirrors that of many large New England ski areas: independent founders run the ski area for decades; founders fall into financial peril and need private equity/banking rescue; bank sells to a giant out-of-state conglomerate; which then sells to another giant out-of-state conglomerate; which eventually turns into something else. In Stratton's case, Robert Wright/Frank Snyder -> Moore and Munger -> Japanese company Victoria USA -> Intrawest -> Alterra swallows the carcass of Intrawest. You can read all about it on New England Ski History.Here was Intrawest's roster, if you're curious:On Alterra's building bingeSince its 2018 founding, Alterra has invested aggressively in its properties: a 2.4-mile-long, $65 million gondola connecting Alpine Meadows to the Olympic side of Palisades Tahoe; $200 million in the massive Mahogany Ridge expansion and a three-mile-long gondola at Steamboat; and an untold fortune on Deer Valley's transformation into what will be the fourth-largest ski area in the United States. Plus new lifts all over the place, new snowmaking all over the place, new lodges all over the place. Well, all over the place except for at Stratton, until now.On Boyne and Vail's investments in New EnglandAmplifying Stratton Nation's pain is the fact that Alterra's two big New England competitors – Vail Resorts and Boyne Resorts – have built a combined 16 new lifts in the region over the past five years, including eight-place chairs at Loon and Sunday River (Boyne), and six-packs at Stowe, Okemo, and Mount Snow (Vail). They've also replaced highly problematic legacy chairs at Attitash (Vail) and Pleasant Mountain (Boyne). Boyne has also expanded terrain at Loon, Sunday River, and, most notably – by 400 acres – Sugarloaf. And it's worth noting that independents Waterville Valley and Killington have also dropped new sixers in recent years (Killington will build another next year). Meanwhile, Alterra's first chairlift just landed this summer, at Sugarbush, which is getting a fixed-grip quad to replace the Heaven's Gate triple.On gondola wind holdsJust in case you want to blame windholds on some nefarious corporate meddling, here's a video I took of Kirkwood's Cornice Express spinning in 50-mile-per-hour winds when Jones was running the resort last year. Every lift has its own distinct profile that determines how it manages wind.On shifting Ikon Pass accessWhen Alterra launched the Ikon Pass in 2018, the company limited Base Pass holders to five days at Stratton, with holiday blackouts. Ahead of the 2020-21 season, the company updated Base Pass access to unlimited days with those same holiday blackouts. Alterra and its partners have made several such changes in Ikon's seven years. I've made this nifty chart that tracks them all (if you missed the memo, Solitude just upgraded Ikon Base pass access to eliminate holiday blackouts):On historic Stratton lift ticket pricesAgain, New England Ski History has done a nice job documenting Stratton's year-to-year peak lift ticket rates:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 76/100 in 2024, and number 576 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

united states america president new york city disney man olympic games magic marvel east spider man epic captain act iron man gate new england thor base west virginia vermont historical lift eleven guardians of the galaxy hulk chief operating officer ant man solitude punisher american express jeep locals pico mammoths appalachian trail tahoe whistler vail rfid applicants loon stratton forest service steamboats matt jones big bear jeeps stowe kirkwood bromley new york city subway ikon rocket raccoon golden triangle tripling beaver creek test pilot sun bowl boyne poma sugarloaf brattleboro vail resorts killington tamarack deer valley mrg snow bowl himi alterra sunday river palisades tahoe epic pass waterville valley stratton mountain mount snow okemo alterra mountain company intrawest mad river glen

Podcast #178: Mount Sunapee General Manager Peter Disch

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 3, 2024 76:32

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on July 27. It dropped for free subscribers on Aug. 3. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoPeter Disch, General Manager of Mount Sunapee, New Hampshire (following this interview, Vail Resorts promoted Disch to Vice President of Mountain Operations at its Heavenly ski area in California; he will start that new position on Aug. 5, 2024; as of July 27, Vail had yet to name the next GM of Sunapee.)Recorded onJune 24, 2024About Mount SunapeeClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: The State of New Hampshire; operated by Vail ResortsLocated in: Newbury, New HampshireYear founded: 1948Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass, Epic Local Pass, Northeast Value Epic Pass: unlimited access* Northeast Midweek Epic Pass: midweek access, including holidaysClosest neighboring (public) ski areas: Pats Peak (:28), Whaleback (:29), Arrowhead (:29), Ragged (:38), Veterans Memorial (:42), Ascutney (:45), Crotched (:48), Quechee (:50), Granite Gorge (:51), McIntyre (:53), Saskadena Six (1:04), Tenney (1:06)Base elevation: 1,233 feetSummit elevation: 2,743 feetVertical drop: 1,510 feetSkiable Acres: 233 acresAverage annual snowfall: 130 inchesTrail count: 67 (29% beginner, 47% intermediate, 24% advanced)Lift count: 8 (2 high-speed quads, 1 fixed-grip quad, 2 triples, 3 conveyors – view Lift Blog's inventory of Mount Sunapee's lift fleet.)History: Read New England Ski History's overview of Mount SunapeeView historic Mount Sunapee trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himNew Hampshire state highway 103 gives you nothing. Straight-ish and flattish, lined with trees and the storage-unit detritus of the American outskirts, nothing about the road suggests a ski-area approach. Looping south off the great roundabout-ish junction onto Mt. Sunapee Road still underwhelms. As though you've turned into someone's driveway, or are seeking some obscure historical monument, or simply made a mistake. Because what, really, could be back there to ski?And then you arrive. All at once. A parking lot. The end of the road. The ski area heaves upward on three sides. Lifts all over. The top is up there somewhere. It's not quite Silverton-Telluride smash-into-the-backside-of-a-box-canyon dramatic, but maybe it's as close as you get in New Hampshire, or at least southern New Hampshire, less than two hours north of Boston.But the true awe waits up high. North off the summit, Lake Sunapee dominates the foreground, deep blue-black or white-over-ice in midwinter, like the flat unfinished center of a puzzle made from the hills and forests that rise and roll from all sides. Thirty miles west, across the lowlands where the Connecticut River marks the frontier with Vermont, stands Okemo, interstate-wide highways of white strafing the two-mile face.Then you ski. Sunapee does not measure big but it feels big, an Alpine illusion exploding over the flats. Fifteen hundred vertical feet is plenty of vertical feet, especially when it rolls down the frontside like a waterfall. Glades everywhere, when they're live, which is less often than you'd hope but more often than you'd think. Good runs, cruisers and slashers, a whole separate face for beginners, a 374-vertical-foot ski-area-within-a-ski-area, perfectly spliced from the pitched main mountain.Southern New Hampshire has a lot of ski areas, and a lot of well-run ski areas, but not a lot of truly great pure ski areas. Sunapee, as both an artwork and a plaything, surpasses them all, the ribeye on the grill stacked with hamburgers, a delightful and filling treat.What we talked aboutSunapee enhancements ahead of the 2024-25 winter; a new parking lot incoming; whether Sunapee considered paid parking to resolve its post-Covid, post-Northeast Epic Pass launch backups; the differences in Midwest, West, and Eastern ski cultures; the big threat to Mount Sunapee in the early 1900s; the Mueller family legacy and “The Sunapee Difference”; what it means for Vail Resorts to operate a state-owned ski area; how cash flows from Sunapee to Cannon; Sunapee's masterplan; the long-delayed West Bowl expansion; incredible views from the Sunapee summit; the proposed Sun Bowl-North Peak connection; potential upgrades for the Sunapee Express, North Peak, and Spruce lifts; the South Peak beginner area; why Sunapee built a ski-through lighthouse; why high-speed ropetows rule; the potential for Sunapee night-skiing; whether Sunapee should be unlimited on the Northeast Value Pass (which it currently is); and why Vail's New Hampshire mountains are on the same Epic Day Pass tier as its Midwest ski areas.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewShould states own ski areas? And if so, should state agencies run those ski areas, or should they be contracted to private operators?These are fraught questions, especially in New York, where three state-owned ski areas (Whiteface, Gore, and Belleayre) guzzle tens of millions of dollars in new lift, snowmaking, and other infrastructure while competing directly against dozens of tax-paying, family-owned operations spinning Hall double chairs that predate the assassination of JFK. The state agency that operates the three ski areas plus Lake Placid's competition facilities, the Olympic Regional Development Authority (ORDA), reported a $47.3 million operating loss for the fiscal year ending March 30, following a loss of $29.3 million the prior year. Yet there are no serious proposals at the state-government level to even explore what it would mean to contract a private operator to run the facilities.If New York state officials were ever so inspired, they could look 100 miles east, where the State of New Hampshire has run a sort of A-B experiment on its two owned ski areas since the late 1990s. New Hampshire's state parks association has operated Cannon Mountain since North America's first aerial tram opened on the site in 1938. For a long time, the agency operated Mount Sunapee as well. But in 1998, the state leased the ski area to the Mueller family, who had spent the past decade and a half transforming Okemo from a T-bar-clotted dump into one of Vermont's largest and most modern resorts.Twenty-six years later, that arrangement stands: the state owns and operates Cannon, and owns Sunapee but leases it to a private operator (Vail Resorts assumed or renewed the lease when they purchased the Muellers' Triple Peaks company, which included Okemo and Crested Butte, Colorado, in 2018). As part of that contract, a portion of Sunapee's revenues each year funnel into a capital fund for Cannon.So, does this arrangement work? For Vail, for the state, for taxpayers, for Sunapee, and for Cannon? As we consider the future of skiing, these are important questions: to what extent should the state sponsor recreation, especially when that form of recreation competes directly against private, tax-paying businesses who are, essentially, subsidizing their competition? It's tempting to offer a reflexive ideological answer here, but nuance interrupts us at ground-level. Alterra, for instance, leases and operates Winter Park from the City of Denver. Seems logical, but a peak-day walk-up Winter Park lift ticket will cost you around $260 for the 2024-25 winter. Is this a fair one-day entry fee for a city-owned entity?The story of Mount Sunapee, a prominent and busy ski area in a prominent and busy ski state, is an important part of that larger should-government-own-ski-areas conversation. The state seems happy to let Vail run their mountain, but equally happy to continue running Cannon. That's curious, especially in a state with a libertarian streak that often pledges allegiance by hoisting two middle fingers skyward. The one-private-one-public arrangement was a logical experiment that, 26 years later, is starting to feel a bit schizophrenic, illustrative of the broader social and economic complexities of changing who runs a business and how they do that. Is Vail Resorts better at running commercial ski centers than the State of New Hampshire? They sure as hell should be. But are they? And should Sunapee serve as a template for New York and the other states, counties, and cities that own ski areas? To decide if it works, we first have to understand how it works, and we spend a big part of this interview doing exactly that.What I got wrong* When listing the Vail Resorts with paid parking lots, I accidentally slipped Sunapee in place of Mount Snow, Vermont. Only the latter has paid parking.* When asking Disch about Sunapee's masterplan, I accidentally tossed Sunapee into Vail's Peak Resorts acquisition in 2019. But Peak never operated Sunapee. The resort entered Vail's portfolio as part of its acquisition of Triple Peaks – which also included Okemo and Crested Butte – in 2018.* I neglected to elaborate on what a “chondola” lift is. It's a lift that alternates (usually six-person) chairs with (usually eight-person) gondola cabins. The only active such lift in New England is at Sunday River, but Arizona Snowbowl, Northstar, Copper Mountain, and Beaver Creek operate six/eight-passenger chondolas in the American West. Telluride runs a short chondola with four-person chairs and four-person gondola cars.* I said that the six New England states combined covered an area “less than half the size of Colorado.” This is incorrect: the six New England states, combined, cover 71,987 square miles; Colorado is 103,610 square miles.Why you should ski Mount SunapeeSki area rankings are hard. Properly done, they include dozens of inputs, considering every facet of the mountain across the breadth of a season from the point of view of multiple skiers. Sunapee on an empty midweek powder day might be the best day of your life. Sunapee on a Saturday when it hasn't snowed in three weeks but everyone in Boston shows up anyway might be the worst. For this reason, I largely avoid assembling lists of the best or worst this or that and abstain, mostly, from criticizing mountain ops – the urge to let anecdote stand in for observable pattern and truth is strong.So when I do stuff ski areas into a hierarchy, it's generally grounded in what's objective and observable: Cottonwoods snow really is fluffier and more bounteous than almost all other snow; Tahoe resort density really does make it one of the world's great ski centers; Northern Vermont really does deliver far deeper snow and better average conditions than the rest of New England. In that same shaky, room-for-caveats manner, I'm comfortable saying this: Mount Sunapee's South Peak delivers one of the best beginner/novice experiences in the Northeast.Arrive childless and experienced, and it's likely you'll ignore this zone altogether. Which is precisely what makes it so great: almost completely cut off from the main mountain, South Peak is free from high-altitude bombers racing back to the lifts. Three progression carpets offer the perfect ramp-up experience. The 374-vertical-foot quad rises high enough to feel grown-up without stoking the summit lakeview vertigo. The trails are gently tilted but numerous and interesting. Other than potential for an errant turn down Sunnyside toward the Sunapee Express, it's almost impossible to get lost. It's as though someone chopped a mid-sized Midwest ski area from the earth, airlifted it east, and stapled it onto the edge of Sunapee:A few other Northeast ski areas offer this sort of ski-area-within-a-ski-area beginner separation – Burke, Belleayre, Whiteface, and Smugglers' Notch all host expansive standalone beginner zones. But Sunapee's is one of the easiest to access for New England's core Boston market, and, because of the Epic Pass, one of the most affordable.For everyone else, Sunapee's main mountain distills everything that is great and terrible about New England skiing: a respectable vertical drop; a tight, complex, and varied trail network; a detached-from-conditions determination to be outdoors in the worst of it. But also impossible weekend crowds, long snow draughts, a tendency to overgroom even when the snow does fall, and an over-emphasis on driving, with nowhere to stay on-mountain. But even when it's not perfect, which it almost never is, Sunapee is always, objectively, a great natural ski mountain, a fall-line classic, a little outpost of the north suspiciously far south. Podcast NotesOn Sunapee's masterplan and West Bowl expansionAs a state park, Mount Sunapee is required to submit an updated masterplan every five years. The most transformative piece of this would be the West Bowl expansion, a 1,082-vertical-foot pod running skiers' left off the current summit (right in purple on the map below):The masterplan also proposes upgrades for several of Sunapee's existing lifts, including the Sunapee Express and the Spruce and North Peak triples:On past Storm Skiing Podcasts:Disch mentions a recent podcast that I recorded with Attitash, New Hampshire GM Brandon Schwarz. You can listen to that here. I've also recorded pods with the leaders of a dozen other New Hampshire mountains:* Wildcat GM JD Crichton (May 30, 2024)* Gunstock President & GM Tom Day (April 15, 2024) – now retired* Tenney Mountain GM Dan Egan (April 8, 2024) – no longer works at Tenney* Cranmore President & GM Ben Wilcox (Oct. 16, 2023)* Dartmouth Skiway GM Mark Adamczyk (June 12, 2023)* Granite Gorge GM Keith Kreischer (May 30, 2023)* Loon Mountain President & GM Brian Norton (Nov. 14, 2022)* Pats Peak GM Kris Blomback (Sept. 26, 2022)* Ragged Mountain GM Erik Barnes (April 26, 2022)* Whaleback Mountain Executive Director Jon Hunt (June 16, 2021)* Waterville Valley President & GM Tim Smith (Feb. 22, 2021)* Cannon Mountain GM John DeVivo (Oct. 6, 2020) – now GM at Antelope Butte, WyomingOn New England ski area densityDisch referenced the density of ski areas in New England. With 100 ski areas crammed into six states, this is without question the densest concentration of lift-served skiing in the United States. Here's an inventory:On the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC)From 1933 to 1942 – the height of the Great Depression – a federal government agency knows as the Civilian Conservation Corps recruited single men between the ages of 18 and 25 to “improve America's public lands, forests, and parks.” Some of this work included the cutting of ski trails on then-virgin mountains, including Mount Sunapee. While the CCC trail is no longer in use on Sunapee, that first project sparked the notion of skiing on the mountain and led to the development of the ski area we know today.On potential Northeast expansions and there being “a bunch that are proposed all over the region”This is by no means an exhaustive list, but a few of the larger Northeast expansions that are creeping toward reality include a new trailpod at Berkshire East:This massive, village-connecting expansion that would completely transform Waterville Valley:The de-facto resurrection of New York's lost Highmount ski area with an expansion from adjacent Belleayre:And the monster proposed Western Territories expansion that could double the size of Sunday River. There's no public map of this one presently available.On high-speed ropetowsI'll keep beating the crap out of this horse until you all realize that I'm right:A high-speed ropetow at Spirit Mountain, Minnesota. Video by Stuart Winchester.On Crotched proximity and night skiingWe talk briefly about past plans for night-skiing on Sunapee, and Disch argues that, while that may have made sense when the Muellers owned the ski area, it's no longer likely since Vail also owns Crotched, which hosts one of New England's largest night-skiing operations less than an hour south. It's a fantastic little operation, a once-abandoned mountain completely rebuilt from the studs by Peak Resorts:On the Epic Day PassHere's another thing I don't plan to stop talking about ever:The Storm explores the world of North American lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 48/100 in 2024, and number 548 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #176: Wildcat General Manager JD Crichton

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 3, 2024 82:39

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on June 26. It dropped for free subscribers on July 3. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoJD Crichton, General Manager of Wildcat Mountain, New HampshireRecorded onMay 30, 2024About WildcatClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Gorham, New HampshireYear founded: 1933 (lift service began in 1957)Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass, Epic Local Pass, Northeast Value Pass – unlimited access* Northeast Midweek Pass – unlimited weekday accessClosest neighboring ski areas: Black Mountain, New Hampshire (:18), Attitash (:22), Cranmore (:28), Sunday River (:45), Mt. Prospect Ski Tow (:46), Mt. Abram (:48), Bretton Woods (:48), King Pine (:50), Pleasant Mountain (:57), Cannon (1:01), Mt. Eustis Ski Hill (1:01)Base elevation: 1,950 feetSummit elevation: 4,062 feetVertical drop: 2,112 feetSkiable Acres: 225Average annual snowfall: 200 inchesTrail count: 48 (20% beginner, 47% intermediate, 33% advanced)Lift count: 5 (1 high-speed quad, 3 triples, 1 carpet)Why I interviewed himI've always been skeptical of acquaintances who claim to love living in New Jersey because of “the incredible views of Manhattan.” Because you know where else you can find incredible views of Manhattan? In Manhattan. And without having to charter a hot-air balloon across the river anytime you have to go to work or see a Broadway play.* But sometimes views are nice, and sometimes you want to be adjacent-to-but-not-necessarily-a-part-of something spectacular and dramatic. And when you're perched summit-wise on Wildcat, staring across the street at Mount Washington, the most notorious and dramatic peak on the eastern seaboard, it's hard to think anything other than “damn.”Flip the view and the sentiment reverses as well. The first time I saw Wildcat was in summertime, from the summit of Mount Washington. Looking 2,200 feet down, from above treeline, it's an almost quaint-looking ski area, spare but well-defined, its spiderweb trail network etched against the wild Whites. It feels as though you could reach down and put it in your pocket. If you didn't know you were looking at one of New England's most abrasive ski areas, you'd probably never guess it.Wildcat could feel tame only beside Mount Washington, that open-faced deathtrap hunched against 231-mile-per-hour winds. Just, I suppose, as feisty New Jersey could only seem placid across the Hudson from ever-broiling Manhattan. To call Wildcat the New Jersey of ski areas would seem to imply some sort of down-tiering of the thing, but over two decades on the East Coast, I've come to appreciate oft-abused NJ as something other than New York City overflow. Ignore the terrible drivers and the concrete-bisected arterials and the clusters of third-world industry and you have a patchwork of small towns and beach towns, blending, to the west and north, with the edges of rolling Appalachia, to the south with the sweeping Pine Barrens, to the east with the wild Atlantic.It's actually pretty nice here across the street, is my point. Even if it's not quite as cozy as it looks. This is a place as raw and wild and real as any in the world, a thing that, while forever shadowed by its stormy neighbor, stands just fine on its own.*It's not like living in New Jersey is some kind of bargain. It's like paying Club Thump Thump prices for grocery store Miller Lite. Or at least that was my stance until I moved my smug ass to Brooklyn.What we talked aboutMountain cleanup day; what it took to get back to long seasons at Wildcat and why they were truncated for a handful of winters; post-Vail-acquisition snowmaking upgrades; the impact of a $20-an-hour minimum wage on rural New Hampshire; various bargain-basement Epic Pass options; living through major resort acquisitions; “there is no intention to make us all one and the same”; a brief history of Wildcat; how skiers lapped Wildcat before mechanical lifts; why Wildcat Express no longer transforms from a chairlift to a gondola for summer ops; contemplating Wildcat Express replacements; retroactively assessing the removal of the Catapult lift; the biggest consideration in determining the future of Wildcat's lift fleet; when a loaded chair fell off the Snowcat lift in 2022; potential base area development; and Attitash as sister resort. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewSince it's impossible to discuss any Vail mountain without discussing Vail Resorts, I'll go ahead and start there. The Colorado-based company's 2019 acquisition of wild Wildcat (along with 16 other Peak resorts), met the same sort of gasp-oh-how-can-corporate-Vail-ever-possibly-manage-a-mountain-that-doesn't-move-skiers-around-like-the-fat-humans-on-the-space-base-in-Wall-E that greeted the acquisitions of cantankerous Crested Butte (2018), Whistler (2016), and Kirkwood (2012). It's the same sort of worry-warting that Alterra is up against as it tries to close the acquisition of Arapahoe Basin. But, as I detailed in a recent podcast episode on Kirkwood, the surprising thing is how little can change at these Rad Brah outposts even a dozen years after The Consumption Event.But, well. At first the Angry Ski Bros of upper New England seemed validated. Vail really didn't do a great job of running Wildcat from 2019 to 2022-ish. The confluence of Covid, inherited deferred maintenance, unfamiliarity with the niceties of East Coast operations, labor shortages, Wal-Mart-priced passes, and the distractions caused by digesting 20 new ski areas in one year contributed to shortened seasons, limited terrain, understaffed operations, and annoyed customers. It didn't help when a loaded chair fell off the Snowcat triple in 2022. Vail may have run ski resorts for decades, but the company had never encountered anything like the brash, opinionated East, where ski areas are laced tightly together, comparisons are easy, and migrations to another mountain if yours starts to suck are as easy as a five-minute drive down the road.But Vail is settling into the Northeast, making major lift upgrades at Stowe, Mount Snow, Okemo, Attitash, and Hunter since 2021. Mandatory parking reservations have helped calm once-unmanageable traffic around Stowe and Mount Snow. The Epic Pass – particularly the northeast-specific versions – has helped to moderate region-wide season pass prices that had soared to well over $1,000 at many ski areas. The company now seems to understand that this isn't Keystone, where you can make snow in October and turn the system off for 11 months. While Vail still seems plodding in Pennsylvania and the lower Midwest, where seasons are too short and the snowmaking efforts often underwhelming, they appear to have cracked New England – operationally if not always necessarily culturally.That's clear at Wildcat, where seasons are once again running approximately five months, operations are fully staffed, and the pitchforks are mostly down. Wildcat has returned to the fringe, where it belongs, to being an end-of-the-road day-trip alternative for people who prefer ski areas to ski resorts (and this is probably the best ski-area-with-no-public-onsite lodging in New England). Locals I speak with are generally happy with the place, which, this being New England, means they only complain about it most of the time, rather than all of the time. Short of moving the mountain out of its tempestuous microclimate and into Little Cottonwood Canyon, there isn't much Vail could do to change that, so I'd suggest taking the win.What I got wrongWhen discussing the installation of the Wildcat Express and the decommissioning of the Catapult triple, I made a throwaway reference to “whoever owned the mountain in the late ‘90s.” The Franchi family owned Wildcat from 1986 until selling the mountain to Peak Resorts in 2010.Why you should ski WildcatThere isn't much to Wildcat other than skiing. A parking lot, a baselodge, scattered small buildings of unclear utility - all of them weather-beaten and slightly ramshackle, humanity's sad ornaments on nature's spectacle.But the skiing. It's the only thing there is and it's the only thing that matters. One high-speed lift straight to the top. There are other lifts but if the 2,041-vertical-foot Wildcat Express is spinning you probably won't even notice, let alone ride, them. Straight up, straight down. All day long or until your fingers fall off, which will probably take about 45 minutes.The mountain doesn't look big but it is big. Just a few trails off the top but these quickly branch infinitely like some wild seaside mangrove, funneling skiers, whatever their intent, into various savage channels of its bell-shaped footprint. Descending the steepness, Mount Washington, so prominent from the top, disappears, somehow too big to be seen, a paradox you could think more about if you weren't so preoccupied with the skiing.It's not that the skiing is great, necessarily. When it's great it's amazing. But it's almost never amazing. It's also almost never terrible. What it is, just about all the time, is a fight, a mottled, potholed, landmine-laced mother-bleeper of a mountain that will not cede a single turn without a little backtalk. This is not an implication of the mountain ops team. Wildcat is about as close to an un-tamable mountain as you'll find in the over-groomed East. If you've ever tried building a sandcastle in a rising tide, you have a sense of what it's like trying to manage this cantankerous beast with its impossible weather and relentless pitch.We talk a bit, on the podcast, about Wildcat's better-than-you'd-suppose beginner terrain and top-to-bottom green trail. But no one goes there for that. The easy stuff is a fringe benefit for edgier families, who don't want to pinch off the rapids just because they're pontooning on the lake. Anyone who truly wants to coast knows to go to Bretton Woods or Cranmore. Wildcat packs the rowdies like jacket-flask whisky, at hand for the quick hit or the bender, for as dicey a day as you care to make it.Podcast NotesOn long seasons at WildcatWildcat, both under the Franchi family (1986 to 2010), and Peak Resorts, had made a habit of opening early and closing late. During Vail Resorts' first three years running the mountain, those traditions slipped, with later-than-normal openings and earlier-than-usual closings. Obviously we toss out the 2020 early close, but fall 2020 to spring 2022 were below historical standards. Per New England Ski History:On Big Lifts: New England EditionI noted that the Wildcat Express quad delivered one of the longest continuous vertical rises of any New England lift. I didn't actually know where the machine ranked, however, so I made this chart. The quad lands at an impressive number five among all lifts, and is third among chairlifts, in the six-state region:Kind of funny that, even in 2024, two of the 10 biggest vertical drops in New England still belong to fixed-grip chairs (also arguably the two best terrain pods in Vermont, with Madonna at Smuggs and the single at MRG).The tallest lifts are not always the longest lifts, and Wildcat Express ranks as just the 13th-longest lift in New England. A surprise entrant in the top 15 is Stowe's humble Toll House double, a 6,400-foot-long chairlift that rises just 890 vertical feet. Another inconspicuous double chair – Sugarloaf's older West Mountain lift – would have, at 6,968 feet, have made this list (at No. 10) before the resort shortened it last year (to 4,130 feet). It's worth noting that, as far as I know, Sugarbush's Slide Brook Express is the longest chairlift in the world.On Herman MountainCrichton grew up skiing at Hermon Mountain, a 300-ish footer outside of Bangor, Maine. The bump still runs the 1966 Poma T-bar that he skied off of as a kid, as well as a Stadeli double moved over from Pleasant Mountain in 1998 (and first installed there, according to Lift Blog, in 1967. The most recent Hermon Mountain trailmap that I can find dates to 2007:On the Epic Northeast Value Pass versus other New England season passes Vail's Epic Northeast Value Pass is a stupid good deal: $613 for unlimited access to the company's four New Hampshire ski areas (Wildcat, Attitash, Mount Sunapee, Crotched), non-holiday access to Mount Snow and Okemo, and 10 non-holiday days at Stowe (plus access to Hunter and everything Vail operates in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan). Surveying New England's 25 largest ski areas, the Northeast Value Pass is less-expensive than all but Smugglers' Notch ($599), Black Mountain of Maine ($465), Pico ($539), and Ragged ($529). All of those save Ragged's are single-mountain passes.On the Epic Day PassYes I am still hung up on the Epic Day Pass, and here's why:On consolidationI referenced Powdr's acquisition of Copper Mountain in 2009 and Vail's purchase of Crested Butte in 2018. Here's an inventory all the U.S. ski areas owned by a company with two or more resorts:On Wildcat's old Catapult liftWhen Wildcat installed its current summit chair in 1997, they removed the Catapult triple, a shorter summit lift (Lift F below) that had provided redundancy to the summit alongside the old gondola (Lift A):Interestingly, the old gondy, which dated to 1957, remained in place for two more years. Here's a circa 1999 trailmap, showing both the Wildcat Express and the gondola running parallel from base to summit:It's unclear how often both lifts actually ran simultaneously in the winter, but the gondola died with the 20th Century. The Wildcat Express was a novel transformer lift, which converted from a high-speed quad chair in the winter to a four-passenger gondola in the summer. Vail, for reasons Crichton explains in the podcast, abandoned that configuration and appears to have no intentions of restoring it.On the Snowcat lift incidentA bit more on the January 2022 chairlift accident at Wildcat, per SAM:On Saturday, Jan. 8, a chair carrying a 22-year-old snowboarder on the Snowcat triple at Wildcat Mountain, N.H., detached from the haul rope and fell nearly 10 feet to the ground. Wildcat The guest was taken to a nearby hospital with serious rib injuries.According to state fire marshal Sean Toomey, the incident began after the chair was misloaded—meaning the guest was not properly seated on the chair as it continued moving out of the loading area. The chair began to swing as it traveled uphill, struck a lift tower and detached from the haul rope, falling to the ground. Snowcat is a still-active Riblet triple, and attaches to the haulrope with a device called an “insert clip.” I found this description of these novel devices on a random blog from 2010, so maybe don't include this in a report to Congress on the state of the nation's lift fleet:[Riblet] closed down in 2003. There are still quite a few around; from the three that originally were at The Canyons, only the Golden Eagle chair survives today. Riblet built some 500 lifts. The particularities of the Riblet chair are their grips, which are called insert clips. It is a very ingenious device and it is very safe too. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, You'll see a sketch below showing the detail of the clip.… One big benefit of the clip is that it provides a very smooth ride over the sheave trains, particularly under the compression sheaves, something that traditional clam/jaw grips cannot match. The drawback is that the clip cannot be visually inspected at it is the case with other grips. Also, the code required to move the grip every 2 years or 2,000 hours, whichever comes first. This is the same with traditional grips.This is a labor-intensive job and a special tool has been developed: The Riblet "Grip Detensioner." It's showed on a second picture representing the tool in action. You can see the cable in the middle with the strands separated, which allows the insertion of the clip. Also, the fiber or plastic core of the wire rope has to be cut where the clip is inserted. When the clip is moved to another location of the cable, a plastic part has to be placed into the cable to replace the missing piece of the core. Finally, the Riblet clip cannot be placed on the spliced section of the rope.Loaded chairs utilizing insert clips also detached from lifts at Snowriver (2021) and 49 Degrees North (2020). An unoccupied, moving chair fell from Heavenly's now-retired North Bowl triple in 2016.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 44/100 in 2024, and number 544 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #174: Blue Knob, Pennsylvania Owners & Management

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2024 95:03

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on June 4. It dropped for free subscribers on June 11. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:Who* Scott Bender, operations and business advisor to Blue Knob ownership* Donna Himes, Blue Knob Marketing Manager* Sam Wiley, part owner of Blue Knob* Gary Dietke, Blue Knob Mountain ManagerRecorded onMay 13, 2024About Blue KnobClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Majority owned by the Wiley familyLocated in: Claysburg, PennsylvaniaYear founded: 1963Pass affiliations: Indy Pass and Indy+ Pass – 2 days, no blackouts (access not yet set for 2024-25 ski season)Closest neighboring ski areas: Laurel (1:02), Tussey (1:13), Hidden Valley (1:14), Seven Springs (1:23)Base elevation: 2,100 feetSummit elevation: 3,172 feetVertical drop: 1,072 feetSkiable Acres: 100Average annual snowfall: 120 inchesTrail count: 33 (5 beginner, 10 intermediate, 4 advanced intermediate, 5 advanced, 9 expert) + 1 terrain parkLift count: 5 (2 triples, 2 doubles, 1 carpet – view Lift Blog's inventory of Blue Knob's lift fleet)Why I interviewed themI've not always written favorably about Blue Knob. In a state where shock-and-awe snowmaking is a baseline operational requirement, the mountain's system is underwhelming and bogged down by antiquated equipment. The lower-mountain terrain – Blue Knob's best – opens sporadically, sometimes remaining mysteriously shuttered after heavy local snows. The website at one time seemed determined to set the world record for the most exclamation points in a single place. They may have succeeded (this has since been cleaned up):I've always tried to couch these critiques in a but-damn-if-only context, because Blue Knob, considered purely as a ski area, is an absolute killer. It needs what any Pennsylvania ski area needs – modern, efficient, variable-weather-capable, overwhelming snowmaking and killer grooming. No one, in this temperamental state of freeze-thaws and frequent winter rains, can hope to survive long term without those things. So what's the holdup?My goal with The Storm is to be incisive but fair. Everyone deserves a chance to respond to critiques, and offering them that opportunity is a tenant of good journalism. But because this is a high-volume, high-frequency operation, and because my beat covers hundreds of ski areas, I'm not always able to gather reactions to every post in the moment. I counterbalance that reality with this: every ski area's story is a long-term, ongoing one. What they mess up today, they may get right tomorrow. And reality, while inarguable, does not always capture intentions. Eventually, I need to gather and share their perspective.And so it was Blue Knob's turn to talk. And I challenge you to find a more good-natured and nicer group of folks anywhere. I went off format with this one, hosting four people instead of the usual one (I've done multiples a few times before, with Plattekill, West Mountain, Bousquet, Boyne Mountain, and Big Sky). The group chat was Blue Knob's idea, and frankly I loved it. It's not easy to run a ski area in 2024 in the State of Pennsylvania, and it's especially not easy to run this ski area, for reasons I outline below. And while Blue Knob has been slower to get to the future than its competitors, I believe they're at least walking in that direction.What we talked about“This was probably one of our worst seasons”; ownership; this doesn't feel like PA; former owner Dick Gauthier's legacy; reminiscing on the “crazy fun” of the bygone community atop the ski hill; Blue Knob's history as an Air Force station and how the mountain became a ski area; Blue Knob's interesting lease arrangement with the state; the remarkable evolution of Seven Springs and how those lessons could fuel Blue Knob's growth; competing against Vail's trio of nearby mountains; should Vail be allowed to own eight ski areas in one state?; Indy Pass sales limits; Indy Pass as customer-acquisition tool; could Blue Knob ever upgrade its top-to-bottom doubles to a high-speed quad?; how one triple chair multiplied into two; why Blue Knob built a mile-long lift and almost immediately shortened it; how Wolf Creek is “like Blue Knob”; beginner lifts; the best ski terrain in Pennsylvania; why Mine Shaft and Boneyard Glades disappeared from Blue Knob's trailmap, and whether they could ever return; unmarked glades; Blue Knob's unique microclimate and how that impacts snowmaking; why the mountain isn't open top-to-bottom more and why it's important to change that; PA snowmaking and how Blue Knob can catch up; that wild access road and what could be done to improve it; and the surprising amount of housing on Blue Knob's slopes. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewSo here's something that's absolutely stupid:That's southeastern Pennsylvania. Vail Resorts operates all of the ski areas in blue font. Ski areas in red are independent. Tussey, a local bump serving State College and its armies of sad co-eds who need a distraction because their football team can't beat Michigan, is not really relevant here. Blue Knob is basically surrounded by ski areas that all draw on the same well of out-of-state corporate resources and are stapled to the gumball-machine-priced Epic Pass. If this were a military map, we'd all say, “Yeah they're fucked.” Blue Knob is Berlin in 1945, with U.S. forces closing in from the west and the Russians driving from the east. There's no way they're winning this war.How did this happen? Which bureaucrat in sub-basement 17 of Justice Department HQ in D.C. looked at Vail's 2021 deal to acquire Seven Springs, Hidden Valley, and Laurel and said, “Cool”? This was just two years after Vail had picked up Whitetail, Liberty, and Roundtop, along with Jack Frost and Big Boulder in eastern Pennsylvania, in the Peak Resorts acquisition. How does allowing one company to acquire eight of the 22 public ski resorts in one state not violate some antitrust statute? Especially when six of them essentially surround one independent competitor.I don't know. When a similar situation materialized in Colorado in 1997, Justice said, “No, Vail Resorts, you can not buy Keystone and Breckenridge and Arapahoe Basin from this dog food company. Sell one.” And so A-Basin went to a real estate conglomerate out of Toronto, which gut-renovated the mountain and then flipped it, earlier this year, to Vail arch-frenemy Alterra. And an independent ski area operator told me that, at some point during this ongoing sales process, the Justice Department reached out to ask them if they were OK with Alterra – which already operates Winter Park, owns Steamboat, and has wrapped Copper, Eldora, and the four Aspen mountains into its Ikon Pass – owning A-Basin (which has been on the Ikon Pass since 2019). Justice made no such phone call, Blue Knob officials tell me on this podcast, when Vail was purchasing the Seven Springs resorts.This is where Colorad-Bro reminds me that Pennsylvania skiing is nothing compared to Colorado. And yes, Colorado is unquestionably the epicenter of American skiing, home to some of our most iconic resorts and responsible for approximately one in four U.S. skier visits each winter. But where do you suppose all those skiers come from? Not solely from Colorado, ranked 21st by U.S. population with just 5.9 million residents. Pennsylvania, with Philly and Pittsburgh and dozens of mid-sized cities in-between, ranks fifth in the nation by population, with nearly 13 million people. And with cold winters, ski areas near every large city, and some of the best snowmaking systems on the planet, PA is a skier printing press, responsible not just for millions of in-state skier visits annually, but for minting skiers that drive the loaded U-Haul west so they can brag about being Summit County locals five minutes after signing their lease. That one company controls more than one-third of the ski areas – which, combined, certainly account for more than half of the state's skier visits – strikes me as unfair in a nation that supposedly maintains robust antitrust laws.But whatever. We're locked in here. Vail Resorts is not Ticketmaster, and no one is coming to dismantle this siege. Blue Knob is surrounded. And it's worse than it looks on this map, which does not illuminate that Blue Knob sits in a vast wilderness, far from most population centers, and that all of Vail's resorts scoop up skiers flowing west-northwest from Philadelphia/Baltimore/D.C. and east from Pittsburgh. So how is Blue Knob not completely screwed? Answering that question was basically the point of this podcast. The mountain's best argument for continued existence in the maw of this Epic Pass blitzkrieg is that Blue Knob is a better pure ski area than any of the six Vail mountains that surround it (see trailmap above). The terrain is, in fact, the best in the State of Pennsylvania, and arguably in the entire Mid-Atlantic (sorry Elk Mountain partisans, but that ski area, fine as it is, is locked out of the conversation as long as they maintain that stupid tree-skiing ban). But this fact of mountain superiority is no guarantee of long-term resilience, because the truth is that Blue Knob has often, in recent years, been unable to open top to bottom, running only the upper-mountain triple chairs and leaving the best terrain out of reach.They have to fix that. And they know it. But this is a feisty mountain in a devilish microclimate with some antiquated infrastructure and a beast of an access road. Nothing about this renovation has been, or likely will be, fast or easy.But it can be done. Blue Knob can survive. I believe it after hosting the team on this podcast. Maybe you will too once you hear it.What I got wrong* When describing the trail network, I said that the runs were cut “across the fall line” in a really logical way – I meant, of course, to say they were cut down the fall line.* I said that I thought the plants that sprouted between the trees in the mothballed Mine Shaft and Boneyard Glades were positioned “to keep people out.” It's more likely, however, based upon what the crew told us, that those plants are intended to control the erosion that shuttered the glades several years ago.* I mentioned “six-packs going up in the Poconos at the KSL-owned mountains.” To clarify: those would be Camelback and Blue Mountain, which each added six-packs in 2022, one year before joining the Ikon Pass.* I also said that high-speed lifts were “becoming the standard” in Pennsylvania. That isn't quite accurate, as a follow-up inventory clarified. The state is home to just nine high-speed lifts, concentrated at five ski areas. So yeah, not exactly taking over Brah.* I intimated that Blue Knob shortened the Beginners CTEC triple, built in 1983, and stood up the Expressway triple in 1985 with some of the commandeered parts. This does not appear to be the case, as the longer Beginners lift and Expressway co-exist on several vintage trailmaps, including the one below from circa 1989. The longer lift continues to appear on Blue Knob trailmaps through the mid-1990s, but at some point, the resort shortened the lift by thousands of linear feet. We discuss why in the pod.Why you should ski Blue KnobIf we took every mountain, fully open, with bomber conditions, I would rank Blue Knob as one of the best small- to mid-sized ski areas in the Northeast. From a rough-and-tumble terrain perspective, it's right there with Berkshire East, Plattekill, Hickory, Black Mountain of Maine, Ragged, Black Mountain (New Hampshire), Bolton Valley, and Magic Mountain. But with its Pennsylvania address, it never makes that list.It should. This is a serious mountain, with serious terrain that will thrill and challenge any skier. Each trail is distinct and memorable, with quirk and character. Even the groomers are interesting, winding nearly 1,100 vertical feet through the trees, dipping and banking, crisscrossing one another and the lifts above. Lower Shortway, a steep and narrow bumper cut along a powerline, may be my favorite trail in Pennsylvania. Or maybe it's Ditch Glades, a natural halfpipe rolling below Stembogan Bowl. Or maybe it's the unmarked trees of East Wall Traverse down to the marked East Wall Glades. Or maybe it's Lower Extrovert, a wide but ungroomed and mostly unskied trail where I found wind-blown pow at 3 p.m. Every trail is playful and punchy, and they are numerous enough that it's difficult to ski them all in a single day.Which of course takes us to the reality of skiing Blue Knob, which is that the ski area's workhorse top-to-bottom lift is the 61-year-old Route 66 double chair. The lift is gorgeous and charming, trenched through the forest on a narrow and picturesque wilderness line (until the mid-station, when the view suddenly shifts to that of oddly gigantic houses strung along the hillside). While it runs fast for a fixed-grip lift, the ride is quite long (I didn't time it; I'll guess 10 to 12 minutes). It stops a lot because, well, Pennsylvania. There are a lot of novice skiers here. There is a mid-station that will drop expert skiers back at the top of the best terrain, but this portal, where beginners load to avoid the suicidal runs below, contributes to those frequent stops.And that's the reality when that lift is running, which it often is not. And that, again, is because the lower-mountain terrain is frequently closed. This is a point of frustration for locals and, I'll point out, for the mountain operators themselves. A half-open Blue Knob is not the same as, say, a half-open Sugarbush, where you'll still have access to lots of great terrain. A half-open Blue Knob is just the Expressway (Lift 4) triple chair (plus the beginner zone), mostly groomers, mostly greens and blues. It's OK, but it's not what we were promised on the trailmap.That operational inconsistency is why Blue Knob remains mostly unheralded by the sort of skiers who are most drawn to this newsletter – adventurous, curious, ready for a challenge – even though it is the perfect Storm mountain: raw and wild and secretive and full of guard dog energy. But if you're anywhere in the region, watch their Instagram account, which usually flashes the emergency lights when Route 66 spins. And go there when that happens. You're welcome.Podcast NotesOn crisscrossing chairliftsChairlifts are cool. Crisscrossing chairlifts are even cooler. Riding them always gives me the sense of being part of a giant Goldbergian machine. Check out the triple crossing over the doubles at Blue Knob (all videos by Stuart Winchester):Wiley mentions a similar setup at Attitash, where the Yankee Flyer high-speed quad crosses beneath the summit lift. Here's a pic I took of the old Summit Triple at the crossover junction in 2021:Vail Resorts replaced the triple with the Mountaineer high-speed quad this past winter. I intended to go visit the resort in early February, but then I got busy trying not to drop dead, so I cancelled that trip and don't have any pics of the new lift. Lift Blog made it there, because of course he did, and his pics show the crossover modified but intact. I did, however, discuss the new lift extensively with Attitash GM Brandon Swartz last November.I also snagged this rad footage of Whistler's new Fitzsimmons eight-pack flying beneath the Whistler Village Gondola in February:And the Porcupine triple passing beneath the Needles Gondola at Snowbasin in March:Oh, and Lift 2 passing beneath the lower Panorama Gondola at Mammoth:Brah I could do this all day. Here's Far East six-pack passing beneath the Red Dog sixer at Palisades Tahoe:Palisades' Base-to-Base Gondola actually passes over two chairlifts on its way over to Alpine Meadows: the Exhibition quad (foreground), and the KT-22 Express, visible in the distance:And what the hell, let's make it a party:On Blue Knob as Air Force baseIt's wild and wildly interesting that Blue Knob – one of the highest points in Pennsylvania – originally hosted an Air Force radar station. All the old buildings are visible in this undated photo. You can see the lifts carrying skiers on the left. Most of these buildings have since been demolished.On Ski Denton and LaurelThe State of Pennsylvania owns two ski areas: Laurel Mountain and Ski Denton (Blue Knob is located in a state park, and we discuss how that arrangement works in the podcast). Vail Resorts, of course, operates Laurel, which came packaged with Seven Springs. Denton hasn't spun the lifts in a decade. Late last year, a group called Denton Go won a bid to re-open and operate the ski area, with a mix of state and private investment.And it will need a lot of investment. Since this is a state park, it's open to anyone, and I hiked Denton in October 2022. The lifts – a double, a triple, and a Poma – are intact, but the triple is getting swallowed by fast-growing trees in one spot (top two photos):I'm no engineer, but these things are going to need a lot of work. The trail network hasn't grown over too much, and the base lodge looks pristine, the grasses around it mowed. Here's the old trailmap if you're curious:And here's the proposed upgrade blueprint:I connected briefly with the folks running Denton GO last fall, but never wrote a story on it. I'll check in with them soon for an update.On Herman Dupre and the evolution of Seven SpringsBender spent much of his career at Seven Springs, and we reminisce a bit about the Dupre family and the ski area's evolution into one of the finest mountains in the East. You can learn more about Seven Springs' history in my podcast conversation with the resort's current GM, Brett Cook, from last year.On Ski magazine's top 20 in the EastSki magazine – which is no longer a physical magazine but a collection of digital bits entrusted to the robots' care – has been publishing its reader resort rankings for decades. The list in the West is fairly static and predictable, filled largely with the Epkonic monsters you would expect (though Pow Mow won the top place this year). But the East list is always a bit more surprising. This year, for example, Mad River Glen and Smugglers' Notch claimed the top two spots. They're both excellent ski areas and personal favorites, with some of the most unique terrain in the country, but neither is on a megapass, and neither owns a high-speed lift, which is perhaps proof that the Colorado Machine hasn't swallowed our collective souls just yet.But the context in which we discuss the list is this: each year, three small ski areas punch their way into an Eastern lineup that's otherwise filled with monsters like Stowe and Sugarbush. Those are: Seven Springs; Holiday Valley, New York; and Wachusett, Massachusetts. These improbable ski centers all make the list because their owners (or former owners, in Seven Springs' case), worked for decades to transform small, backwater ski areas into major regional destinations.On Vail's Northeast Value Epic PassesThe most frightening factor in the abovementioned difficulties that Blue Knob faces in its cagefight with Vail is the introduction, in 2020, of Northeast-specific Epic Passes. There are two versions. The Northeast Value Pass grants passholders unlimited access to all eight Vail Resorts in Pennsylvania and all four in neighboring Ohio, which is a crucial feeder for the Seven Springs resorts. It also includes unlimited access to Vail's four New Hampshire resorts; unlimited access with holiday blackouts at Hunter, Okemo, and Mount Snow; and 10 non-holiday days at Stowe. And it's only $613 (early-bird price was $600):The second version is a midweek pass that includes all the same resorts, with five Stowe days, for just $459 ($450 early-bird):And you can also, of course, pick up an Epic ($1,004) or Epic Local ($746) pass, which still includes unlimited Pennsylvania access and adds everything in the West and in Europe.Blue Knob's season pass costs $465 ($429 early-bird), and is only good at Blue Knob. That's a very fair price, and skiers who acted early could have added an Indy Pass on at a pretty big discount. But Indy is off sale, and PA skiers weighing their pass options are going to find that Epic Pass awfully tempting.On comparisons to the liftline at MRGErf, I may have activated the Brobots at Mad Brother Glen when I compared the Route 66 liftline with the one beneath their precious single chair. But I mean it's not the worst comparison you could think of:Here's another Blue Knob shot that shows how low the chairs fly over the trail:And here's a video that gives a bit more perspective on Blue Knob's liftline:I don't know if I fully buy the comparison myself, but Blue Knob is the closest thing you'll find to MRG this far south.On Wolf Creek's old summit PomaHimes reminisced on her time working at Wolf Creek, Colorado, and the rattletrap Poma that would carry skiers up a 45-degree face to the summit. I was shocked to discover that the old lift is actually still there, running alongside the Treasure Stoke high-speed quad (the two lifts running parallel up the gut of the mountain). I have no idea how often it actually spins:Lift Blog has pics, and notes that the lift “very rarely operates for historic purposes.”On defunct gladesThe Mine Shaft and Bone Yard glades disappeared from Blue Knob's trailmap more than a decade ago, but this sign at the top of Lower Shortway still points toward them:Then there's this sign, a little ways down, where the Bone Yard Glade entrance used to be:And here are the glades, marked on a circa 2007 trailmap, between Deer Run and Lower Shortway:It would be rad if Blue Knob could resurrect these. We discuss the possibility on the podcast.On Blue Knob's base being higher than Killington'sSomewhat unbelievably, Blue Knob's 2,100-foot base elevation is higher than that of every ski area in New England save Saddleback, which launches from a 2,460-foot base. The five next highest are Bolton Valley (2,035 feet), Stowe (2,035), Cannon (2,034), Pico (2,000), and Waterville Valley (1,984). Blue Knob's Vail-owned neighbors would fit right into this group: Hidden Valley sits at 2,405 feet, Seven Springs at 2,240, and Laurel at 2,000. Head south and the bases get even higher: in West Virginia, Canaan Valley sits at 3,430 feet; Snowshoe at 3,348-foot base (skiers have to drive to 4,848, as this is an upside-down ski area); and Timberline at 3,268. But the real whoppers are in North Carolina: Beech Mountain sits at 4,675, Cataloochee at 4,660, Sugar Mountain at 4,100, and Hatley Pointe at 4,000. I probably should have made a chart, but damn it, I have to get this podcast out before I turn 90.On Blue Knob's antique snowmaking equipmentLook, I'm no snowmaking expert, but some of the stuff dotting Blue Knob's slopes looks like straight-up World War II surplus:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 41/100 in 2024, and number 541 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #168: Gunstock Mountain President & GM Tom Day

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 22, 2024 80:15

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on April 15. It dropped for free subscribers on April 22. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoTom Day, President and General Manager of Gunstock, New HampshireRecorded onMarch 14, 2024About GunstockClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Belknap County, New HampshireLocated in: Gilford, New HampshireYear founded: 1937Pass affiliations: Unlimited access on New Hampshire College Pass (with Cannon, Cranmore, and Waterville Valley)Closest neighboring ski areas: Abenaki (:34), Red Hill Ski Club (:35), Veterans Memorial (:43), Tenney (:52), Campton (:52), Ragged (:54), Proctor (:56), Powderhouse Hill (:58), McIntyre (1:00)Base elevation: 904 feetSummit elevation: 2,244 feetVertical drop: 1,340 feetSkiable Acres: 227 Average annual snowfall: 120 inchesTrail count: 49 (2% double black, 31% black, 52% blue, 15% green)Lift count: 8 (1 high-speed quad, 2 fixed-grip quads, 2 triples, 3 carpets - view Lift Blog's inventory of Gunstock's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himIn the roughly four-and-a-half years since I launched The Storm, I've written a lot more about some ski areas than others. I won't claim that there's no personal bias involved, because there are certain ski areas that, due to reputation, convenience, geography, or personal nostalgia, I'm drawn to. But Gunstock is not one of those ski areas. I was only vaguely aware of its existence when I launched this whole project. I'd been drawn, all of my East Coast life, to the larger ski areas in the state's north and next door in Vermont and Maine. Gunstock, awkwardly located from my New York City base, was one of those places that maybe I'd get to someday, even if I wasn't trying too hard to actually make that happen.And yet, I've written more about Gunstock than just about any ski area in the country. That's because, despite my affinity for certain ski areas, I try to follow the news around. And wow has there been news at this mid-sized New Hampshire bump. Nobody knew, going into the summer of 2022, that Gunstock would become the most talked-about ski area in America, until the lid blew off Mount Winnipesaukee in July of that year, when a shallow and ill-planned insurrection failed spectacularly at drawing the ski area into our idiotic and exhausting political wars.If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can read more on the whole surreal episode in the Podcast Notes section below, or just listen to the podcast. But because of that weird summer, and because of an aspirational masterplan launched in 2021, I've given Gunstock outsized attention in this newsletter. And in the process, I've quite come to like the place, both as a ski area (where I've now actually skied), and as a community, and it has become, however improbably, a mountain I keep taking The Storm back to.What we talked aboutRetirement; “my theory is that 10 percent of people that come to a ski area can be a little bit of a problem”; Gunstock as a business in 2019 versus Gunstock today; skier visits surge; cash in the bank; the publicly owned ski area that is not publicly subsidized; Gunstock Nice; the last four years at Gunstock sure were an Asskicker, eh?; how the Gunstock Area Commission works and what went sideways in the summer of 2022; All-Summers Disease; preventing a GAC Meltdown repeat; the time bandits keep coming; should Gunstock be leased to a private operator?; qualities that the next general manager of Gunstock will need to run the place successfully; honesty, integrity, and respect; an updated look at the 2021 masterplan and what actually makes sense to build; could Gunstock ever have a hotel or summit lodge?; why a paved parking lot is a big deal in 2024; Maine skiing in the 1960s; 1970s lift lines; reflecting on the changes over 40-plus years of skiing; rear-wheel-drive Buicks as ski commuter car; competing against Epic and Ikon and why independent ski areas will always have a place in the market; will record skier-visit numbers persist?; a surprising stat about season passes; and how a payphone caused mass confusion in Park City. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewOn January 19, Gunstock Marketing Director Bonnie MacPherson (long of Okemo and Bretton Woods), shot me a press release announcing that Day would retire at the conclusion of the 2023-24 ski season.It was a little surprising. Day hadn't been at Gunstock long. He'd arrived just a couple months before the March 2020 Covid shutdowns, almost four years to the day before he announced retirement. He was widely liked and respected on the mountain and in the community, a sentiment reinforced during the attempted Kook Coup of summer 2022, when a pair of fundamentalist nutjobs got flung out of the county via catapult after attempting to seize Gunstock from Day and his team.But Gunstock was a bit of a passion project for Day, a skiing semi-lifer who'd spent three decades at Waterville Valley before fiddling with high-end odd-jobs of the consultancy and project-management sort for 10 years. In four years, he transformed county-owned Gunstock from a seasonal business that tapped bridge loans to survive each summer into a profitable year-round entertainment center with millions in the bank. And he did it all despite Covid, despite the arrival of vending-machine Epic and Ikon passes, despite a couple of imbeciles who'd never worked at a ski area thinking they could do a better job running a ski area than the person they paid $175,000 per year to run the ski area. I still don't really get it. How it all worked out. How Gunstock has gotten better as everything about running a ski area has gotten harder and more expensive and more competitive. There's nothing really special about the place statistically or terrain-wise. It's not super snowy or extra tall or especially big. It has exactly one high-speed lift, a really nice lodge, and Awe Dag views of Lake Winnipesaukee. It's nice but not exceptional, just another good mid-sized ski area in a state full of good mid-sized ski areas. And yet, Gunstock thrives. Day, like most ski area general managers, is allergic to credit, but I have to think he had a lot to do with the mountain's late resilience. He's an interesting guy, thoughtful and worldly and adventurous. Talking to him, I always get the sense that this is a person who's comfortable with who he is, content with his life, a hardcore skier whose interests extend far beyond it. He's colorful but also plainspoken, an optimist and a pragmatist, a bit of back-office executive and good ole' boy wrencher melded into your archetype of a ski area manager. Someone who, disposition baked by experience, is perfectly suited to the absurd task of operating a ski area in New Hampshire. It's too bad he's leaving, but I guess eventually we all do. The least I could do was get his story one more time before he bounced.Why you should ski GunstockSkiing Knife Fight, New Hampshire Edition, looks like this:That's 30 ski areas, the fifth-most of any state, in the fifth-smallest state in America. And oh by the way you're also right next door to all of this:And Vermont is barely bigger than New Hampshire. Together, the two states are approximately one-fifth the size of Colorado. “Fierce” as the kids (probably don't) say.So, what makes you choose Gunstock as your snowsportskiing destination when you have 56 other choices in a two-state region, plus another half-dozen large ski areas just east in Maine? Especially when you probably own an Indy, Epic, or Ikon pass, which, combined, deliver access to 28 upper New England ski areas, including most of the best ones?Maybe that's exactly why. We've been collectively enchanted by access, obsessed with driving down per-visit cost to beat inflated day-ticket prices that we simultaneously find absurd and delight in outsmarting. But boot up at any New England ski area with chairlifts, and you're going to find a capable operation. No one survived this long in this dogfight without crafting an experience worth skiing.It's telling that Gunstock has only gotten busier since the Epic and Ikon passes smashed into New England a half dozen years ago. There's something there, an extra thing worth pursuing. You don't have to give up your SuperUltimoWinterSki Pass to make Gunstock part of your winter, but maybe work it in there anyway?Podcast NotesOn Gunstock's masterplanGunstock's ambitious masterplan, rolled out in 2021, would have blown the ski area out on all sides, added a bunch of new lifts, and plopped a hotel and summit lodge on the property:Most of it seems improbable now, as Day details in the podcast.On the GAC conflictSomeone could write a book on the Gunstock Shenanigans of 2022. The best I can give you is a series of article I published as the whole ridiculous saga was unfolding:* Band of Nitwits Highjacks Gunstock, Ski Area's Future Uncertain - July 24, 2022* Walkouts, Resignations, Wild Accusations: A Timeline of Gunstock's Implosion - July 31, 2022* Gunstock GM Tom Day & Team Return, Commissioner Ousted – 3 Ways to Protect the Mountain's Future - Aug. 8, 2022If nothing else, just watch this remarkable video of Day and his senior staff resigning en masse:On the Caledonian Canal that “splits Scotland in half”I'd never heard of the Caledonian Canal, but Day mentions sailing it and that it “splits Scotland in half.” That's the sort of thing I go nuts for, so I looked it up. Per Wikipedia:The Caledonian Canal connects the Scottish east coast at Inverness with the west coast at Corpach near Fort William in Scotland. The canal was constructed in the early nineteenth century by Scottish engineer Thomas Telford.The canal runs some 60 miles (100 kilometres) from northeast to southwest and reaches 106 feet (32 metres) above sea level.[2] Only one third of the entire length is man-made, the rest being formed by Loch Dochfour, Loch Ness, Loch Oich, and Loch Lochy.[3] These lochs are located in the Great Glen, on a geological fault in the Earth's crust. There are 29 locks (including eight at Neptune's Staircase, Banavie), four aqueducts and 10 bridges in the course of the canal.Here's its general location:More detail:On Day's first appearance on the podcastThis was Day's second appearance on the podcast. The first was way back in episode 34, recorded in January 2021:On Hurricane Mountain, MaineDay mentions skiing a long-gone ropetow bump named Hurricane Mountain, Maine as a child. While I couldn't find any trailmaps, New England Lost Ski Areas Project houses a nice history from the founder's daughter:I am Charlene Manchester now Barton. My Dad started Hurricane Ski Slope with Al Ervin. I was in the second grade, I remember, when I used to go skiing there with him. He and Al did almost everything--cranked the rope tow motor up to get it going, directed traffic, and were the ski patrol. As was noted in your report, accommodations were across road at the Norton farm where we could go to use the rest room or get a cup of hot chocolate and a hamburger. Summers I would go with him and Al to the hill and play while they cleared brush and tried to improve the hill, even opened one small trail to the right of the main slope. I was in the 5th grade when I tore a ligament in my knee skiing there. Naturally, the ski patrol quickly appeared and my Dad carried me down the slope in his arms. I was in contact with Glenn Parkinson who came to interview my mother , who at 96 is a very good source of information although actually, she was not much of a skier. The time I am referring to must have been around 1945 because I clearly recall discussing skiing with my second grade teacher Miss Booth, who skied at Hurricane. This was at DW Lunt School in Falmouth where I grew up. I was in the 5th grade when I hurt my leg.My Dad, Charles Manchester , was one of the first skiers in the State, beginning on barrel staves in North Gorham where he grew up. He was a racer and skied the White Mountains . We have a picture of him at Tuckerman's when not many souls ventured up there to ski in the spring. As I understand it, the shortage of gas during WWII was a motivator as he had a passion for the sport, but no gas to get to the mountains in N.H. Two of his best ski buddies were Al Ervin, who started Hurricane with him, and Homer Haywood, who was in the ski troopers during WWII, I think. Another ski pal was Chase Thompson. These guys worked to ski--hiking up Cranmore when the lifts were closed due to the gas shortage caused by WWII. It finally got to be too much for my Dad to run Hurricane, as he was spending more time directing traffic for parking than skiing, which after all was why he and Al started the project.I think my Dad and his ski buddies should be remembered for their love of the sport and their willingness to do whatever it took to ski. Also, they were perfect gentlemen, wonderful manners on the slope, graceful and handsomely dressed, often in neckties. Those were the good old days!The ski area closed around 1973, according to NELSAP, in response to rising insurance rates.On old-school Sunday RiverI've documented the incredible evolution of Sunday River from anthill to Vesuvius many times. But here, to distill the drama of the transformation, is the now-titanic ski area's 1961 trailmap:This 60s-era Sunday River was a foundational playground for Day.On the Epic and Ikon New England timelineIt's easy to lose track of the fact that the Epic and Ikon Passes didn't exist in New England until very recently. A brief timeline:* 2017: Vail Resorts buys Stowe, its first New England property, and adds the mountain to the Epic Pass for the 2017-18 ski season.* 2018: Vail Resorts buys Triple Peaks, owners of Mount Sunapee and Okemo, and adds them to the Epic Pass for the 2018-19 ski season.* 2018: The Ikon Pass debuts with five or seven days at five New England destinations for the 2018-19 ski season: Killington/Pico, Sugarbush, and Boyne-owned Loon, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf. Alterra-owned Stratton is unlimited on the Ikon Pass and offers five days on the Ikon Base Pass.* 2019: Vail buys the 17-mountain Peak Resorts portfolio, which includes four more New England ski areas: Mount Snow in Vermont and Crotched, Wildcat, and Attitash in New Hampshire. All join the Epic Pass for the 2019-20 ski season, bumping the number of New England ski areas on the coalition up to seven.* 2019: Alterra buys Sugarbush. Amps up the mountain's Ikon Pass access to unlimited with blackouts on the Ikon Base and unlimited on the full Ikon for the 2020-21 ski season. Alterra also ramps up Stratton Ikon Base access from five days to unlimited with blackouts for the 2020-21 winter.* 2020: Vail introduces New England-specific Epic Passes. At just $599, the Northeast Value Pass delivers unlimited access to Vail's four New Hampshire mountains, holiday-restricted unlimited access to Mount Snow and Okemo, and 10 non-holiday days at Stowe. Vail also rolls out a midweek version for just $429.* 2021: Vail unexpectedly cuts the price of Epic Passes by 20 percent, reducing the cost of the Northeast Value Pass to just $479 and the midweek version to $359. The Epic Local Pass plummets to $583, and even the full Epic Pass is just $783.All of which is background to our conversation, in which I ask Day a pretty interesting question: how the hell have you grown Gunstock's business amidst this incredibly challenging competitive marketplace?The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 30/100 in 2024, and number 530 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #166: Okemo Vice President & General Manager Bruce Schmidt

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 12, 2024 72:16

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on April 5. It dropped for free subscribers on April 12. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoBruce Schmidt, Vice President and General Manager at Okemo Mountain Resort, VermontRecorded onFeb. 27, 2024 (apologies for the delay)About OkemoClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Ludlow, VermontYear founded: 1956Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass: unlimited access* Epic Local Pass: unlimited access* Epic Northeast Value Pass: unlimited access with holiday blackouts* Epic Northeast Midweek Pass: unlimited weekday access with holiday blackouts* Epic Day Pass: access on “all resorts” and “32 resorts” tiersClosest neighboring ski areas: Killington (:22), Magic (:26), Bromley (:31), Pico (:32), Ascutney (:33), Bellows Falls (:37), Stratton (:41), Saskadena Six (:44), Ski Quechee (:48), Storrs Hill (:52), Whaleback (:56), Mount Snow (1:04), Hermitage Club (1:10)Base elevation: 1,144 feetSummit elevation: 3,344 feetVertical drop: 2,200 feetSkiable Acres: 632Average annual snowfall: 120 inches per On The Snow; Vail claims 200.Trail count: 121 (30% advanced, 37% intermediate, 33% beginner) + 6 terrain parksLift count: 20 (2 six-packs, 4 high-speed quads, 5 fixed-grip quads, 2 triples, 1 platter, 6 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Okemo's lift fleet)View historic Okemo trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himWhether by plan or by happenstance, Vail ended up with a nearly perfect mix of Vermont ski areas. Stowe is the beater, with the big snows and the nasty trails and the amazing skiers and the Uphill Bros and the glades and the Front Four. Mount Snow is the sixth borough of New York City (but so is Florida and so is Stratton), big and loud and busy and bursting and messy, with a whole mountain carved out for a terrain park and big-drinking, good-timing crowds, as many skiers at the après, it can seem, as on the mountain. And Okemo is something that's kind of in-between and kind of totally different, at once tame and lively, a placid family redoubt that still bursts with that frantic Northeast energy.It's a hard place to define, and statistics won't do it. Line up Vermont's ski areas on a table, and Okemo looks bigger and better than Sugarbush or Stowe or Jay Peak. It isn't, of course, as anyone in the region will tell you. The place doesn't require the guts that its northern neighbors demand. It's big but not bossy. More of a stroll than a run, a good-timer cruising the Friday night streets in a drop-top low-rider, in no hurry at all to do anything other than this. It's like skiing Vermont without having to tangle with Vermont, like boating on a lake with no waves.Because of this unusual profile, New England skiers either adore Okemo or won't go anywhere near it. It is a singular place in a dense ski state that is the heart of a dense ski region. Okemo isn't particularly convenient to get to, isn't particularly snowy by Vermont standards, and isn't particularly interesting from a terrain point of view. And yet, it is, historically, the second-busiest ski area in the Northeast (after Killington). There is something there that works. Or at least, that has worked historically, as the place budded and flourished in the Mueller family's 36-year reign.But it's Vail's mountain now, an Epic Pass anchor that's shuffling and adding lifts for the crowds that that membership brings. While the season pass price has dropped, skier expectations have ramped up at Okemo, as they have everywhere in the social-media epoch. The grace that passholders granted the growing family-owned mountain has evaporated. Everyone's pulling the pins on their hand grenades and flinging them toward Broomfield every time a Saturday liftline materializes. It's not really fair, but it's how the world is right now. The least I can do is get their side of it.What we talked aboutSummer storm damage to Ludlow and Okemo; the resort helping the town; Vermont's select boards; New England resilience; Vail's My Epic Promise fund and how it helped employees post-storm; reminiscing on old-school Okemo and its Poma forest; the Muellers arrive; the impact of Jackson-Gore; how and why Okemo grew from inconsequential local bump to major New England ski hill; how Okemo expanded within the confines of Vermont's Act 250; Vail buys the mountain, along with Sunapee and Crested Butte; the Muellers' legacy; a Sunapee interlude; Vail adjusting to New England operations; mythbusters: snowmaking edition; the Great Chairlift Switcheroo of 2021; why Okemo didn't place bubbles on the Quantum 6; why Okemo's lift fleet is entirely made up of Poma machines; where Okemo could add a lift to the existing trail network; expansion potential; does Okemo groom too much?; glade expansion?; that baller snowmaking system; what happened when Okemo's season pass price dropped by more than $1,000; is Epic Pass access too loose at Okemo?; how to crowd-dodge; the Epic Northeast Midweek Pass; limiting lift ticket sales; and skyrocketing lift ticket prices.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewBruce Schmidt first collected a paycheck from Okemo in the late 1970s. That was a different mountain, a different ski industry, a different world. Pomas and double chairs and primitive snowmaking and mountain-man gear and no internet. It was grittier and colder, in the sense that snowpants and ski coats and heated gloves and socks were not so ubiquitous and affordable and high-quality as they are today. Skiing, particularly in New England, required a hardiness, a tolerance for cold and subtle pain that modernity has slowly shuffled out of the skier profile.Different as it was, that age of 210s and rear-wheel drive rigs was not that long ago, and Schmidt has experienced it as one continuous story. That sort of institutional and epochal tenure is rare, especially at one ski area, especially at one that has evolved as much as Okemo. Imagine if you showed up at surface-lift Hickory and watched it transform, over four decades, into sprawling Gore. That's essentially what Schmidt lived – and helped drive – at Okemo.That hardly ever happens. Small ski areas tend to stay small. Expansion is hard and expensive and, in Vermont especially, bureaucratically challenging. And yet little Okemo, wriggling in Killington's shadow, lodged between the state's southern and northern snow pockets, up past Mount Snow and Stratton but not so far from might-as-well-keep-driving Sugarbush and Mad River Glen, became, somehow, the fourth-largest ski area in America's fourth-largest ski state by skier visits (after Colorado, California, and Utah, typically).The Mueller family, which owned the ski area from 1982 until they sold it to Vail Resorts in 2018, were, of course, the visionaries and financiers behind that growth, the likes of which we will probably never witness in New England again. But as Vail's roots grow deeper and they make these mountains their own, that legacy will fade, if not necessarily dim. It was important, then, to download that part of Schmidt's brain to the internet, to make sure that story survived the big groom of time.What I got wrongI said in the intro that Bruce started at Okemo in 1987. He actually started in the late ‘70s and worked there on and off for several years, as he explains in the conversation.I said that Okemo's lift fleet was “100 percent Poma.” This is not exactly right, as some of the lifts are officially branded Leitner-Poma. I'm also not certain of the make of Okemo's carpets.I noted in the intro that Okemo was Vail's second-largest eastern mountain. It is actually their largest by skiable acreage (though Stowe feels larger to me, given the expansive unmarked but very skiable glades stuffed between nearly every trail). Here's a snapshot of Vail's entire portfolio for reference:Why you should ski OkemoThe first time I skied Okemo was 2007. I rode a 3:45 a.m. ski bus north from Manhattan. I remember thinking three things: 1) wow, this place is big; 2) wow, there are a lot of kids here; and 3) do they seriously groom every goddamn trail every single night?This was at the height of my off-piste mania. I'm not a great carver, especially after the cord gets chopped up and scratchy sublayers emerge. I prefer to maneuver, at a moderate pace, over terrain, meaning bumps or glades (which are basically bumps in the trees, at least on a typical Vermont day). It's more fun and interesting than blasting down wide-open, beaten-up groomers filled with New Yorkers.But wide-open, beaten-up groomers filled with New Yorkers is what Okemo is. At the time, I had no understanding of freeze-thaw cycles, of subtle snowfall differentials between nearby ski areas, of the demographic profile that drove such tight slope management (read: mediocre big-city skiers with no interest in anything other than getting to the bottom still breathing). All I knew was that for me, at the time, this wasn't what I was looking for.But what you want as a skier evolves over time. I still like terrain, and Okemo still doesn't have as much as I'd like. If that's what you need, take your Epic Pass to Stowe – they have plenty. But what I also like is skiing with my kids, skiing with my wife, morning cord laps off fast lifts, long meandering scenic routes to rest up between bumpers, exploring mountains border to border, getting a little lost among multiple base areas, big views, moderate pitches, and less-aggressive skiers (ride the K1 gondy or Superstar chair at Killington and then take the Sunburst Six at Okemo; the toning down of energy and attitude is palpable).Okemo not only has all that – it is all that. If that makes sense. This is one of the best family ski areas in the country. It feels like – it is – a supersized version of the busy ski areas in Massachusetts or Connecticut, a giant Wachusett or Catamount or Mohawk Mountain: unintimidating, wide-open, freewheeling, and quirky in its own overgroomed, overbusy way.If you hit it right, Okemo will give you bumps and glades and even, on a weekday, wide-open trails all to yourself. But that's not the typical Okemo experience, and it's not the point of the place. This is New England's friendly giant, a meandering mass of humanity, grinning and gripping and slightly frazzled, a disjointed but united-by-snow collective that, together, define Okemo as much as the mountain itself.Okemo on a stormy day in November 2021. Video by Stuart Winchester.Podcast NotesOn last summer's flooding in Okemo and LudlowI mean yowza:I hate to keep harping on New Englander's work ethic, but…I reset the same “dang New England you're badass” narrative that I brought up with Sunday River GM Brian Heon on the podcast a few weeks ago. I'm not from New England and I've never even lived there, and I'm from a region with the same sort of get-after-it problem-solver mentality and work ethic. But I'm still amazed at how every time New England gets smashed over the head with a frying pan, they just look annoyed for five minutes, put on a Band-Aid, and keep moving.On the fate of Plymouth, Bromley, Ascutney, and Plymouth/RoundtopSchmidt and I discuss several Vermont ski areas whose circa-1980s size rivaled that of Okemo's at the time. Here, for context, was Okemo before the Muellers arrived in 1982:It's hard to tell from the trailmap, but only four of the 10 or so lifts shown above were chairlifts. Today, Okemo has grown into Vermont's fourth-largest ski area by skiable acres (though I have reason to doubt the accuracy of the ski resort's self-reported tallies; Stowe, Sugarbush, and Jay all ski at least as big as Okemo, but officially report fewer skiable acres).Anyway, in the early ‘80s, Magic, Bromley, Ascutney, and Plymouth/Roundtop were approximate peers to Okemo. Bromley ran mostly chairlifts, and has evolved the most of this group, but it is far smaller than Okemo today. The mountain has always been well-managed, so it wasn't entirely fair to stick it in with this group, but the context is important here: Bromley today is roughly the same size that it was 40 years ago:Ascutney sold a 1,400-plus-foot vertical drop and a thick trail network in this 1982 trailmap. But the place went bust and sold its high-speed quad in 2012 (it's now the main lift at Vail-owned Crotched). Today, Ascutney consists of a lower-mountain ropetow and T-bar that rises just 450 vertical feet (you can still skin or hike the upper mountain trails).Magic, in the early ‘80s, was basically the same size it is today:A merger with now-private and liftless (but still skiable from Magic), Timber Ridge briefly supersized the place before it went out of business for a large part of the ‘90s:When Magic recovered from its long shutdown, it reverted to its historic footprint (with extensive glade skiing that either didn't exist or went unmarked in the ‘80s):And then there was Round Top, a 1,300-foot sometime private ski area also known as Bear Creek and Plymouth Notch. The area has sat idle since 2018, though the chairlifts are, last I checked, intact, and it can be yours for $6.5 million.Seriously you can buy it:On Okemo's expansion progressionThe Muellers' improbable transformation of Okemo into a New England Major happened in big chunks. First, they opened the Solitude area for the 1987-88 ski season:In 1994, South Face, far looker's left, opened a new pod of steeper runs toward the summit:The small Morningstar pod, located in the lower-right-hand corner of the trailmap, opened in 1995, mostly to serve a real estate development:The most dramatic change came in 2003, when Okemo opened the sprawling Jackson Gore complex:On Vermont Act 250It's nearly impossible to discuss Vermont skiing without referencing the infamous Act 250, which is, according to the official state website:…Vermont's land use and development law, enacted in 1970 at a time when Vermont was undergoing significant development pressure. The law provides a public, quasi-judicial process for reviewing and managing the environmental, social and fiscal consequences of major subdivisions and developments in Vermont. It assures that larger developments complement Vermont's unique landscape, economy and community needs. One of the strengths of Act 250 is the access it provides to neighbors and other interested parties to participate in the development review process. Applicants often work with neighbors, municipalities, state agencies and other interested groups to address concerns raised by a proposed development, resolving issues and mitigating impacts before a permit application is filed.As onerous as navigating Act 250 can seem, there is significantly more slopeside development in Vermont than in any other Northeastern state, and its large resorts are certainly more developed than anything in build-nothing New York.On the CNL lease structureSchmidt refers to “the CNL lease structure.” Here's what he was talking about: a company called CNL Lifestyle Properties once had a slick sideline in purchasing ski areas and leasing them back to the former owners. New England Ski History explains the historical context:As the banking crisis unfolded, many ski areas across the country transferred their debt into Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs). On December 5, 2008, Triple Peaks transferred its privately held Mt. Sunapee assets to CNL Lifestyle Properties, Inc.. Triple Peaks then entered into a long agreement with CNL to maintain operational control.The site put together a timeline of the various resorts CNL once owned, including, from 2008 to '17, Okemo:On the proximity of Okemo to Mount Sunapee Though Okemo and Sunapee sit in different states, they're only an hour apart:I snapped this pic of Okemo from the Sunapee summit a couple years ago (super zoomed in):On Mount Sunapee's ownershipThe State of New Hampshire owns two ski areas: Cannon Mountain and Mount Sunapee. In 1998, after decades of debate on the subject, the state leased the latter to the Muellers. When Vail acquired Triple Peaks (Okemo, Sunapee, and Crested Butte), in 2019, they either inherited or renegotiated the lease. For whatever reason, the state continues to manage Cannon as part of Franconia Notch State Park. A portion of the lease revenue that Vail pays the state each year is earmarked for capital improvements at Cannon.On glades at Stratton and KillingtonOkemo's trail footprint is light on glades compared to many of the large Vermont ski areas. I point to Killington and Stratton, in particular, in the podcast, mostly due to their proximity to Okemo (every Vermont ski area from Sugarbush on north has a vast glade network). Though it's just 20 minutes away, Killington rakes in around double Okemo's snowfall in an average winter, and the ski area maintains glades all over the mountain:Stratton, 40 minutes south, also averages more snow than Okemo and is a sneaky good glade mountain. It's easy to spend all day in the trees there when the snow's deep (and it's deep more often than you might think):On Okemo's historic pass pricesWe can have mountain-to-mountain debates over the impact Vail Resorts has on the resorts it purchases, but one thing that's inarguable: season pass prices typically plummet when the company acquires ski areas. Check out New England Ski History's itemization of Okemo pass prices over the years – that huge drop in 2018-19 represents the ownership shift and that year's cost of an Epic Local Pass (lift ticket and pass prices listed below are the maximum for that season):But, yeah, those day-ticket prices. Yikes.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing all year long. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 25/100 in 2024, and number 525 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #164: Sunday River General Manager Brian Heon

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 2, 2024 74:09

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on March 26. It dropped for free subscribers on April 2. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoBrian Heon, General Manager of Sunday River, MaineRecorded onJanuary 30, 2024About Sunday RiverClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Boyne ResortsLocated in: Newry, MaineYear founded: 1959Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: 7 days, no blackouts* Ikon Base Pass: 5 days, holiday blackouts* New England Pass: unlimited access on Gold tierReciprocal partners:* New England Pass holders get equal access to Sunday River, Sugarloaf, and Loon* New England Gold passholders get three days each at Boyne's other seven ski areas: Pleasant Mountain, Maine; Boyne Mountain and The Highlands, Michigan; Big Sky, Montana; Brighton, Utah; Summit at Snoqualmie, Washington; and Cypress, B.C.Closest neighboring ski areas: Mt. Abram (:17); Black Mountain of Maine (:34); Wildcat (:46); Titcomb (1:05); Attitash (1:05); Cranmore (1:11)Base elevation: 800 feetSummit elevation: 3,150 feet (at Oz Peak)Vertical drop: 2,350 feetSkiable Acres: 884 trail acres + 300 acres of gladesAverage annual snowfall: 167 inchesTrail count: 139 (16% expert, 18% advanced, 36% intermediate, 30% beginner)Lift count: 19 (1 eight-pack, 1 six-pack, 1 6/8-passenger chondola, 2 high-speed quads, 5 fixed-grip quads, 4 triples, 1 double, 1 T-bar, 3 carpets – Sunday River also built an additional triple chair on Merrill Hill, which is complete but not yet open; it is scheduled to open for the 2024-25 ski season – view Lift Blog's inventory of Sunday River's lift fleet.)View historic Sunday River trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himWhat an interesting time this is in the North American ski industry. It's never been easier or cheaper for avid skiers to sample different mountains, across different regions, within the span of a single season. And, in spite of the sorry shape of the stoke-obsessed ski media, there has never been more raw information readily available about those ski areas, whether that's Lift Blog's exhaustive databases or OpenSnow's snowfall comparisons and histories.What that gives all of us is perspective and context. When I learned to ski in the ‘90s, pre-commercial internet, you could scarcely find a trailmap without visiting a resort's ticket window. Skimap.org now houses more than 10,000 historic trailmaps for North America alone. That means you can understand, without visiting, what a ski area was, how it's evolved, and how it compares to its neighbors.That makes Sunday River's story both easier and harder to tell. Easier because anyone can now see how this monster, seated up there beyond the Ski 93 and North Conway corridors, is worth the drive past all of that to get to this. The ski area is more than twice the size of anything in New Hampshire. But the magical internet can also show skiers just how much snowier it is in Vermont, how much emptier it is at Saddleback, and that my gosh actually it doesn't take so much longer to just fly to Utah.Sunday River, self-aware of its place in the ski ecosystem, has responded by building a better mountain. Boyne has, so far, under-promised and over-delivered on the resort's 2030 plan, which, when launched four years ago, didn't mention either of the two D-Line megalifts that now anchor both ends of the resort. The snowmaking is getting better, even as the mountain grows larger and more complex. The teased Western Reserve expansion would, given Sunday River's reliance on snowmaking, be truly audacious, transforming an already huge ski area into a gigantic one.Cynics will see echoes of ASC's largess, of the expansion frenzy of the 1990s that ended in the company's (though fortunately not the individual ski areas') extinction. But Boyne Resorts is not some upstart. The narrative of ski-consolidation-doesn't-work always overlooks this Michigan-based company, founded by a scrappy fellow named Everett Kircher in 1947 – nearly 80 years ago. Boyne officials assure me that their portfolio-wide infrastructure investment is both considered and sustainable. If you've been to Big Sky in the past couple of years, it's clear what the company is trying to achieve, even if they won't explicitly say it (and I've tried to get them to say it): Boyne Resorts is resetting the standard for the North American ski experience by building the most modern ski resorts on the continent. They're doing what I wish Vail, which continues to disappoint me in the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic, would do: ensuring that, wherever they operate, they are delivering the best possible version of skiing in that region. And while that's a tough draw in the Cottonwoods (with Brighton, stacked, as it is, against the Narnia known as Alta-Snowbird), they're doing it in Michigan, they're doing it in the Rockies (at Big Sky), and they're doing it in New England, where Loon and Sunday River, especially, are transforming at superspeed.What we talked aboutRain, rain, go away; deciding to close down a ski resort; “seven inches of rain and 40-degree temperatures will eat snowpack pretty quick”; how Sunday River patched the resort back in only four days; the story behind the giant igloo at the base of Jordan; is this proof of climate change or proof of ski industry resilience?; one big advantage of resort consolidation; the crazy New England work ethic; going deep on the new Barker 6 lift; why Sunday River changed plans after announcing that the old Jordan high-speed quad would replace Barker; automatic restraint bars; the second Merrill Hill triple and why it won't spin until the 2024-25 ski season; the best part about skiing Merrill Hill; how Jordan 8 has transformed Sunday River; why that lift is so wind-resistant; the mountain's evolving season-opening plan; the potential Western Reserve expansion; potential future lift upgrades; carpet-bombing; 2030 progress beyond the on-snow ski experience; whether the summer bike park could return; the impact of the Ikon Pass on skier visits; Mountain Collective; the New England Pass; and making sure local kids can ski. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewJordan 8. Barker 6. Merrill Hill. A December rainstorm fit to raise Noah's Ark. There is always something happening at Sunday River. Or, to frame it in the appropriate active voice: Sunday River is always doing things.New England, in its ASC/Intrawest late 1980s/1990s/early 2000s frenzy, built and built and built. Sugarbush installed five lifts, including the two-mile-long Slide Brook Express, in a single summer (1995). Killington built two gondolas and two high-speed quads in a three-year span from 1994 to '97. Stratton sprouted two six-packs and two fixed-grip quads in the summer of 2001. And Sunday River, the most earnest manifestation of Les Otten's ego and ambitions, multiplied across the wilderness, a new peak each year it seemed, until a backwater with a skiable footprint roughly equal to modern Black Mountain, New Hampshire had sprawled into a videogame ski kingdom at the chest-thumping pinnacle of Northeast skiing.And then not a lot happened for a really long time. ASC fell apart. Intrawest curdled. Most of the ski area infrastructure investment fled west. Stowe, then owned by AIG, kept building lifts, as did the Muellers (Okemo), and Peak Resorts (at least at Mount Snow and Crotched). One-offs would materialize as strange experiments, like the inexplicable six-pack at Ragged (2001) and the Mid-Burke Express at remote and little-known Burke Mountain (2011). But the region's on-mountain ski infrastructure, so advanced in the 1990s, began to tire out.Then, since 2018 or so, rapid change, propelled by numerous catalysts: the arrival of western megapasses, a Covid adrenaline boost, and, most crucially, two big companies willing to build big-time lifts at big-time ski areas. Vail, since kicking New England's doors open in 2017, has built a half-dozen major lifts, including three six-packs, across four ski areas. And Boyne Resorts, flexing a blueprint they first deployed at western crown jewel Big Sky, has built three D-line bubble lifts, installed two refurbished high-speed quads (with another on the way this summer), unveiled two expansions, and teased at least two more across its four New England ski areas. It doesn't hurt that, despite a tighter regulatory culture in general, there is little Forest Service bureaucracy to fuss with in the East, meaning that (Vermont's Act 250 notwithstanding), it's often easier to replace infrastructure.Which takes us back to Sunday River. Big and bustling, secure in its Ikon Pass membership, “SR,” as the Boyne folks call it, didn't really have to do anything to keep being busy and important. The old lifts would have kept on turning, even if rickety old Barker set the message boards on fire once every two to three weeks. Instead, the place is, through platinum-plated lifts and immense snowmaking upgrades, rapidly evolving into one of the country's most sophisticated ski areas. If that sounds like hyperbole, try riding one of Boyne's D-line bubble lifts. Quick and quiet, smooth as a shooting star, appointed like a high-end cigar lounge, these lifts inspire a sort of giddiness, an awe in the up-the-mountain ride that will reprogram the way you think about your ski day (even if you're too cynical to admit it).But it's not just what Sunday River is building that defines the place – it is also how the girth of the operation, backed by a New England hardiness, has fortified it against the almost constant weather events that make Northeast ski area operation such a suicidal juggling act. The December rainstorm that tore the place into pieces ended up shutting down the mountain for all of four days. Then they were like, “What?” And the lifts were spinning again.What I got wrongOn the old Jordan quadHeon mentioned that the future of the old Jordan high-speed quad was “to be determined.” We recorded this in January, before Pleasant Mountain announced that they would use the bones of Jordan as their new summit lift, replacing a fixed-grip triple chair that was starting to get moldy.On relative sizeI said that Merrill Hill was Sunday River's smallest peak by vertical drop. But the new Merrill Hill lift rises 750 vertical feet, while Little Whitecap sports a 602-foot vertical drop.On the New England PassThe prices I gave for New England Gold Passes ($1,350 early-bird, $1,619 final price), were for the 2023-24 ski season. Since then, 2024-25 passes debuted at $1,389 early-bird ($1,329 renewal), and currently sell for $1,439 ($1,389 renewal).I also said that the New England Pass didn't include Pleasant Mountain access. What I meant was that the pass only provides unlimited access to Sunday River, Sugarloaf, and Loon. But the full pass does in fact include three days at Pleasant Mountain, along with each of Boyne's other six ski areas (Boyne Mountain, The Highlands, Big Sky, Brighton, Summit at Snoqualmie, and Cypress). Skiers can also add on a Pleasant Mountain night pass for $99 for the 2024-25 ski season.We also refer to the Platinum New England Pass, which the company discontinued this year in favor of a kind-of build-your-own-pass structure – skiers can add an Ikon Base Pass onto the Gold Pass for $299 and the Pleasant Mountain night pass for $99.Why you should ski Sunday RiverThe most interesting ski areas, to me, present themselves as an adventure. Wild romps up and over, each new lift opening a new set of trails, which tease yet another chairlift poking over the horizon. Little unexpected pockets carved out from the whole, places to disappear into, not like one ski area but like several, parallel but distinct, the journey seamless but slightly confusing.This is the best way I can describe Sunday River. The trailmap doesn't really capture the scale and complexity of it. It's a good map, accurate enough, but it flattens the perspective and erases the drama, makes the mountain look easy. But almost the first thing that will happen at Sunday River is that you will get lost. The seven side-by-side peaks, so distinct on the map, blend into one another on the ground. Endless forests bisect your path. You can start on Locke and end, almost inexplicably, at the tucked-out-of-sight North Ridge quad. Or take off from the Barker summit and land at the junction of Aurora and the Jordan double, two lifts seemingly planted in raw wilderness that will transport you to two very different worlds. Or you can exit Jordan 8 and find yourself, several miles later, past a condo city and over a sequence of bridges, at the White Cap lodge, wondering where you are and how you got there.It's bizarre and brilliant, like a fully immersive game of Mouse Trap, a wild machine to lose yourself in. While it's smaller and shorter than Sugarloaf, its massive sister resort to the north, Sunday River, with its girth and its multiple base areas, can feel bigger, especially when the whole joint's open. That also means that, if you're not careful, you can spend all day traversing from one lift to the next, going across, rather than down, the fall lines. But ski with purpose and focus – and a map in your pocket – and Sunday River can deliver you one hell of a ski day.Podcast NotesOn Sunday River 2030Boyne is intentionally a little cagey on its 2030 plans, versions of which are in place for Loon, Sugarloaf, Summit at Snoqualmie, Boyne Mountain, The Highlands, and Sunday River. The exact content and commitments of the plans changes quite a bit, so I won't try to outline them here. Elsewhere in the portfolio, Big Sky has a nearly-wrapped 2025 plan. Brighton, entirely on Forest Service land, has a masterplan (which I can't find), but no 2030 commitment. Pleasant Mountain is still relatively new to the company. Cypress is in Canada, so who knows what's going on up there. I'll talk about that with the mountain's GM, Matt Davies, in June.On the December stormHeon and I discuss the December rainstorm that brought up to seven inches of rain to Sunday River and nearby Bethel. That's, like, an incredible amount of water:Heon spoke to local reporters shortly after the resort re-opened.On the AlpinigluSomehow, this party igloo that Sunday River flew a team of Euro-sculptors in to create survived the insane flooding.On Hurricane Irene and self-sufficiency in VermontNew England has a way of shrugging off catastrophic storm damage that is perhaps unequaled on planet Earth. From The New York Times, just a few months after Hurricane Irene blasted the state in 2011:Yet what is truly impressive about the work here is not the amount of damage, or even the size of the big boy toys involved in the repair. Instead, it is that 107 is the last stretch of state road that Vermont has not finished repairing. In the three months since Hurricane Irene, the state repaired and reopened some 500 miles of damaged road, replaced a dozen bridges with temporary structures and repaired about 200 altogether.Vermont's success in repairing roads while keeping the state open for tourism is a story of bold action and high-tech innovation. The state closed many damaged highways to speed repairs and it teamed with Google to create frequently updated maps_ showing which routes were open. Vermont also worked in cooperation with other states, legions of contractors and local citizens.While many Americans have come to wonder whether the nation has lost the ability to fix its ailing infrastructure or do big things, “they haven't been to Vermont,” said Megan Smith, the state's commissioner of tourism and marketing.State roads, which are the routes used most by tourists, are ready for the economically crucial winter skiing season. But Vermont had many of those roads open in time for many of the fall foliage visitors, who pump $332 million into the state's economy each year, largely through small businesses like bed and breakfasts, gift shops and syrup stands. Within a month of the storm, 84 of the 118 closed sections of state roads were reopened, and 28 of the 34 state highway bridges that had been closed were reopened. …How did they get so much done so quickly? Within days after the storm hit on Aug. 28, the state had moved to emergency footing, drawing together agencies to coordinate the construction plans and permits instead of letting communications falter. National Guard units from eight states showed up, along with road crews from the Departments of Transportation from Maine and New Hampshire, and armies of private contractors. The attitude, said Sue Minter, Vermont's deputy secretary of transportation, was, “We'll do the work and we'll figure out how we're paying for it, but we're not waiting.”On Barker 6When Sunday River announced that they would build the Jordan 8 chair in 2021, they planned to move the existing Jordan high-speed quad over to replace the POS Barker detach, a Yan relic from the late ‘80s. Eventually, they changed their minds and pivoted to a sixer for Barker. The old Jordan lift will now replace the summit triple at Pleasant Mountain next year.On Kircher and redistributionWhen Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher joined me on the podcast in November 2022, he explained the logic behind replacing the Jordan quad with an eight-pack, even though that wasn't a traditionally super busy part of the resort (14:06):On the expansions at Loon and SugarloafSunday River sister resorts Loon and Sugarloaf both opened expansions this ski season. Loon's was a small beginner-focused pod, a 500-vertical-foot add-on served by a carpet-loaded fixed quad that mainly served to unite the resort with a set of massive parking lots on the mountain's west end:Sugarloaf's West Mountain expansion was enormous – the largest in New England in decades. Pretty impressive for what was already the second-largest ski area in the East:On the Mountain Collective in the NortheastHere's the Mountain Collective's current roster:Sunday River would make a lot of sense in there. While the coalition is mostly centered on the West, Stowe and Sugarbush are past members. Each mountain's parent company (Vail and Alterra, respectively), eventually yanked them off the coalition, leaving Sugarloaf as the sole New England mountain (Bromont and La Massif de Charlevoix have since joined as eastern complements). I ask Heon on the podcast whether Sunday River has considered joining the collective.On the Community Access PassWe discuss Sunday River's Community Access Pass, which is:“a season pass scholarship for students that reside and attend school in the MSAD 17, SAD 44, and RSU 10 School Districts. Students grades Pre-K through 12 are eligible to apply. This pass will offer free daily access to the Sunday River slopes, and also comes with a complimentary membership to the Sunday River Ski and Snowboard Club. Students must meet certain economic qualifiers to apply; further details about the criteria are available on the pass application. Students have until November 15 to apply for the program.”Apply here.On Brian's last appearance on the podcastHeon last appeared on the podcast in January 2021:Current Sunday River President Dana Bullen has also been on the pod, way back on episode 13:On Merrill Hill and the new lift locationHere's an approximate location of the new Merrill Hill lift, which is built but not yet operational, and not yet on Sunday River's trailmap:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 21/100 in 2024, and number 521 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #162: Camelback Managing Director David Makarsky

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 19, 2024 86:58

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Feb. 12. It dropped for free subscribers on Feb. 19. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoDavid Makarsky, General Manager of Camelback Resort, PennsylvaniaRecorded onFebruary 8, 2024About CamelbackClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: KSL Capital, managed by KSL ResortsLocated in: Tannersville, PennsylvaniaYear founded: 1963Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: 7 days, no blackouts* Ikon Base Pass: 5 days, holiday blackoutsReciprocal partners: NoneClosest neighboring ski areas: Shawnee Mountain (:24), Jack Frost (:26), Big Boulder (:27), Skytop Lodge (:29), Saw Creek (:37), Blue Mountain (:41), Pocono Ranchlands (:43), Montage (:44), Hideout (:51), Elk Mountain (1:05), Bear Creek (1:09), Ski Big Bear (1:16)Base elevation: 1,252 feetSummit elevation: 2,079 feetVertical drop: 827 feetSkiable Acres: 166Average annual snowfall: 50 inchesTrail count: 38 (3 Expert Only, 6 Most Difficult, 13 More Difficult, 16 Easiest) + 1 terrain parkLift count: 13 (1 high-speed six-pack, 1 high-speed quad, 1 fixed-grip quad, 3 triples, 3 doubles, 4 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Camelback's lift fleet)View historic Camelback trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himAt night it heaves from the frozen darkness in funhouse fashion, 800 feet high and a mile wide, a billboard for human life and activity that is not a gas station or a Perkins or a Joe's Vape N' Puff. The Poconos are a peculiar and complicated place, a strange borderland between the Midwest, the Mid-Atlantic, and the Northeast. Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, approaching the northern tip of Appalachia, framed by the Delaware Water Gap to the east and hundreds of miles of rolling empty wilderness to the west, the Poconos are gorgeous and decadent, busyness amid abandonment, cigarette-smoking cement truck drivers and New Jersey-plated Mercedes riding 85 along the pinched lanes of Interstate 80 through Stroudsburg. “Safety Corridor, Speed Limit 50,” read the signs that everyone ignores.But no one can ignore Camelback, at least not at night, at least not in winter, as the mountain asserts itself over I-80. Though they're easy to access, the Poconos keeps most of its many ski areas tucked away. Shawnee hides down a medieval access road, so narrow and tree-cloaked that you expect to be ambushed by poetry-spewing bandits. Jack Frost sits at the end of a long access road, invisible even upon arrival, the parking lot seated, as it is, at the top of the lifts. Blue Mountain boasts prominence, rising, as it does, to the Appalachian Trail, but it sits down a matrix of twisting farm roads, off the major highway grid.Camelback, then, is one of those ski areas that acts not just as a billboard for itself, but for all of skiing. This, combined with its impossibly fortuitous location along one of the principal approach roads to New York City, makes it one of the most important ski areas in America. A place that everyone can see, in the midst of drizzling 50-degree brown-hilled Poconos February, is filled with snow and life and fun. “Oh look, an organized sporting complex that grants me an alternative to hating winter. Let's go try that.”The Poconos are my best argument that skiing not only will survive climate change, but has already perfected the toolkit to do so. Skiing should not exist as a sustained enterprise in these wild, wet hills. It doesn't snow enough and it rains all the time. But Poconos ski area operators invested tens of millions of dollars to install seven brand-new chairlifts in 2022. They didn't do this in desperate attempts to salvage dying businesses, but as modernization efforts for businesses that are kicking off cash.In six of the past eight seasons, (excluding 2020), Camelback spun lifts into April. That's with season snowfall totals of (counting backwards from the 2022-23 season), 23 inches, 58 inches, 47 inches, 29 inches, 35 inches, 104 inches (in the outlier 2017-18 season), 94 inches, 24 inches, and 28 inches. Mammoth gets more than that from one atmospheric river. But Camelback and its Poconos brothers have built snowmaking systems so big and effective, even in marginal temperatures, that skiing is a fixture in a place where nature would have it be a curiosity.What we talked aboutCamelback turns 60; shooting to ski into April; hiding a waterpark beneath the snow; why Camelback finally joined the Ikon Pass; why Camelback decided not to implement Ikon reservations; whether Camelback season passholders will have access to a discounted Ikon Base Pass; potential for a Camelback-Blue Mountain season pass; fixing the $75 season pass reprint fee (they did); when your job is to make sure other people have fun; rethinking the ski school and season-long programs; yes I'm obsessed with figuring out why KSL Capital owns Camelback and Blue Mountain rather than Alterra (of which KSL Capital is part-owner); much more than just a ski area; rethinking the base lodge deck; the transformative impact of Black Bear 6; what it would take to upgrade Stevenson Express; why and how Camelback aims to improve sky-high historic turnover rates (and why that should matter to skiers); internal promotions within KSL Resorts; working with sister resort Blue Mountain; rethinking Camelback's antique lift fleet; why terrain expansion is unlikely; Camelback's baller snowmaking system; everybody hates the paid parking; and long-term plans for the Summit House.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewA survey of abandoned ski areas across the Poconos underscores Camelback's resilience and adaptation. Like sharks or alligators, hanging on through mass extinctions over hundreds of millions of years, Camelback has found a way to thrive even as lesser ski centers have surrendered to the elements. The 1980 edition of The White Book of Ski Areas names at least 11 mountains – Mt. Tone, Hickory Ridge, Tanglwood, Pocono Manor, Buck Hill, Timber Hill (later Alpine Mountain), Tamiment Resort Hotel, Mt. Airy, Split Rock, Mt. Heidelberg, and Hahn Mountain – within an hour of Camelback that no longer exist as organized ski areas.Camelback was larger than all of those, but it was also smarter, aggressively expanding and modernizing snowmaking, and installing a pair of detachable chairlifts in the 1990s. It offered the first window into skiing modernity in a region where the standard chairlift configuration was the slightly ridiculous double-double.Still, as recently as 10 years ago, Camelback needed a refresh. It was crowded and chaotic, sure, but it also felt dumpy and drab, with aged buildings, overtaxed parking lots, wonky access roads, long lines, and bad food. The vibe was very second-rate oceanfront boardwalk, very take-it-or-leave-it, a dour self-aware insouciance that seemed to murmur, “hey, we know this ain't the Catskills, but if they're so great why don'chya go there?”Then, in 2015, a spaceship landed. A 453-room hotel with a water park the size of Lake George, it is a ridiculous building, a monstrosity on a hill, completely out of proportion with its surroundings. It looks like something that fell off the truck on its way to Atlantic City. And yet, that hotel ignited Camelback's renaissance. In a region littered with the wrecks of 1960s heart-shaped-hottub resorts, here was something vital and modern and clean. In a redoubt of day-ski facilities, here was a ski-in-ski-out option with decent restaurants and off-the-hill entertainment for the kids. In a drive-through region that felt forgotten and tired, here was something new that people would stop for.The owners who built that monstrosity/business turbo-booster sold Camelback to KSL Capital in 2019. KSL Capital also happens to be, along with Aspen owner Henry Crown, part owner of Alterra Mountain Company. I've never really understood why KSL outsourced the operation of Camelback and, subsequently, nearby Blue Mountain, to its hotel-management outfit KSL Resorts, rather than just bungee-cording both to Alterra's attack squadron of ski resorts, which includes Palisades Tahoe, Winter Park, Mammoth, Steamboat, Sugarbush, and 14 others, including, most recently, Arapahoe Basin and Schweitzer. It was as if the Ilitch family, which owns both the Detroit Tigers and Red Wings, had drafted hockey legend Steve Yzerman and then asked him to bat clean-up at Comerica Park.While I'm still waiting on a good answer to this question even as I annoy long lines of Alterra executives and PR folks by persisting with it, KSL Resorts has started to resemble a capable ski area operator. The company dropped new six-packs onto both Camelback and nearby Blue Mountain (which it also owns), for last ski season. RFID finally arrived and it works seamlessly, and mostly eliminates the soul-crushing ticket lines by installing QR-driven kiosks. Both ski areas are now on the Ikon Pass.But there is work to do. Liftlines – particularly at Stevenson and Sunbowl, where skiers load from two sides and no one seems interested in refereeing the chaos – are borderline anarchic; carriers loaded with one, two, three guests cycle up quad chairs all day long while liftlines stretch for 20 minutes. A sense of nickeling-and-diming follows you around the resort: a seven-dollar mandatory ski check for hotel guests; bags checked for outside snacks before entering the waterpark, where food lines on a busy day stretch dozens deep; and, of course, the mandatory paid parking.Camelback's paid-parking policy is, as far as I can tell, the biggest PR miscalculation in Northeast skiing. Everyone hates it. Everyone. As you can imagine, locals write to me all the time to express their frustrations with ski areas around the country. By far the complaint I see the most is about Camelback parking (the second-most-complained about resort, in case you're wondering, is Stratton, but for reasons other than parking). It's $12 minimum to park, every day, in every lot, for everyone except season passholders, with no discount for car-pooling. There is no other ski area east of the Mississippi (that I am aware of), that does this. Very few have paid parking at all, and even the ones that do (Stowe, Mount Snow), restrict it to certain lots on certain days, include free carpooling incentives, and offer large (albeit sometimes far), free parking lot options.I am not necessarily opposed to paid parking as a concept. It has its place, particularly as a crowd-control tool on very busy days. But imagine being the only bar on a street with six bars that requires a cover charge. It's off-putting when you encounter that outlier. I imagine Camelback makes a bunch of money on parking. But I wonder how many people roll up to redeem their Ikon Pass, pay for parking that one time, and decide to never return. Based on the number of complaints I get, it's not immaterial.There will always be an element of chaos to Pennsylvania skiing. It is like the Midwest in this way, with an outsized proportion of first-timers and overly confident Kamikaze Bros and busloads of kids from all over. But a very well-managed ski area, like, for instance, Elk Mountain, an hour north of Camelback, can at least somewhat tame these herds. I sense that Camelback can do this, even if it's not necessarily consistently doing it now. It has, in KSL Resorts, a monied owner, and it has, in the Ikon Pass, a sort of gold-stamp seal-of-approval. But that membership also gives it a standard to live up to. They know that. How close are they to doing it? That was the purpose of this conversation.What I got wrongI noted that the Black Bear 6 lift had a “750/800-foot” vertical drop. The lift actually rises 667 vertical feet.I accidentally said “setting Sullivan aside,” when asking Makarsky about upgrade plans for the rest of the lift fleet. I'd meant to say, “Stevenson.” Sullivan was the name of the old high-speed quad that Black Bear 6 replaced.Why you should ski CamelbackLet's start by acknowledging that Camelback is ridiculous. This is not because it is not a good ski area, because it is a very good ski area. The pitch is excellent, the fall lines sustained, the variety appealing, the vertical drop acceptable, the lift system (disorganized riders aside), quite good. But Camelback is ridiculous because of the comically terrible skill level of 90 percent of the people who ski there, and their bunchball concentrations on a handful of narrow green runs that cut across the fall line and intersect with cross-trails in alarmingly hazardous ways. Here is a pretty typical scene:I am, in general, more interested in making fun of very good skiers than very bad ones, as the former often possess an ego and a lack of self-awareness that transforms them into caricatures of themselves. I only point out the ineptitude of the average Camelback skier because navigating them is an inescapable fact of skiing there. They yardsale. They squat mid-trail. They take off their skis and walk down the hill. I observe these things like I observe deer poop lying in the woods – without judgement or reaction. It just exists and it's there and no one can say that it isn't (yes, there are plenty of fantastic skiers in the Poconos as well, but they are vastly outnumbered and you know it).So it's not Jackson Hole. Hell, it's not even Hunter Mountain. But Camelback is one of the few ski-in, ski-out options within two hours of New York City. It is impossibly easy to get to. The Cliffhanger trail, when it's bumped up, is one of the best top-to-bottom runs in Pennsylvania. Like all these ridge ski areas, Camelback skis a lot bigger than its 166 acres. And, because it exists in a place that it shouldn't – where natural snow would rarely permit a season exceeding 10 or 15 days – Camelback is often one of the first ski areas in the Northeast to approach 100 percent open. The snowmaking is unbelievably good, the teams ungodly capable.Go on a weekday if you can. Go early if you can. Prepare to be a little frustrated with the paid parking and the lift queues. But if you let Camelback be what it is – a good mid-sized ski area in a region where no such thing should exist – rather than try to make it into something it isn't, you'll have a good day.Podcast NotesOn Blue Mountain, PennsylvaniaSince we mention Camelback's sister resort, Blue Mountain, Pennsylvania, quite a bit, here's a little overview of that hill:Owned by: KSL Capital, managed by KSL ResortsLocated in: Palmerton, PennsylvaniaYear founded: 1977Pass access:* Ikon Pass: 7 days, no blackouts* Ikon Base Plus and Ikon Base Pass: 5 days, holiday blackoutsBase elevation: 460 feetSummit elevation: 1,600 feetVertical drop: 1,140 feetSkiable Acres: 164 acresAverage annual snowfall: 33 inchesTrail count: 40 (10% expert, 35% most difficult, 15% more difficult, 40% easiest)Lift count: 12 (2 high-speed six-packs, 1 high-speed quad, 1 triple, 1 double, 7 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Blue Mountain's lift fleet)On bugging Rusty about Ikon PassIt's actually kind of hilarious how frequently I used to articulate my wishes that Camelback and Blue would join Alterra and the Ikon Pass. It must have seemed ridiculous to anyone peering east over the mountains. But I carried enough conviction about this that I brought it up to former Alterra CEO Rusty Gregory in back-to-back years. I wrote a whole bunch of articles about it too. But hey, some of us fight for rainforests and human rights and cancer vaccines, and some of us stand on the plains, wrapped in wolf furs and banging our shields until The System bows to our demands of five or seven days on the Ikon Pass at Camelback and Blue Mountain, depending upon your price point.On Ikon Pass reservationsIkon Pass reservations are poorly communicated, hard to find and execute, and not actually real. But the ski areas that “require” them for the 2023-24 ski season are Aspen Snowmass (all four mountains), Jackson Hole, Deer Valley, Big Sky, The Summit at Snoqualmie, Loon, and Windham. If you're not aware of this requirement or they're “sold out,” you'll be able to skate right through the RFID gates without issue. You may receive a tisk-tisk email afterward. You may even lose your pass (I'm told). Either way, it's a broken system in need of a technology solution both for the consumer (easy reservations directly on an Ikon app, rather than through the partner resort's website), and the resort (RFID technology that recognizes the lack of a reservation and prevents the skier from accessing the lift).On Ikon Pass Base season pass add-onsWe discuss the potential for Camelback 2024-25 season passholders to be able to add a discounted Ikon Base Pass onto their purchase. Most, but not all, non-Alterra-owned Ikon Pass partner mountains offered this option for the 2023-24 ski season. A non-exhaustive inventory that I conducted in September found the discount offered for season passes at Sugarloaf, Sunday River, Loon, Killington, Windham, Aspen, Big Sky, Taos, Alta, Snowbasin, Snowbird, Brighton, Jackson Hole, Sun Valley, Mt. Bachelor, and Boyne Mountain. Early-bird prices for those passes ranged from as low as $895 at Boyne Mountain to $2,890 for Deer Valley. Camelback's 2023-24 season pass debuted at just $649. Alterra requires partner passes to meet certain parameters, including a minimum price, in order to qualify passholders for the discounted Base pass. A simple fix here would be to offer a premium “Pennsylvania Pass” that's good for unlimited access at both Camelback and Blue, and that's priced at the current add-on rate ($849), to open access to the discounted Ikon Base for passholders.On conglomerates doing shared passesIn November, I published an analysis of every U.S.-based entity that owns or operates two or more ski areas. I've continued to revise my list, and I currently count 26 such operators. All but eight of them – Powdr, Fairbank Group, the Schoonover Family, the Murdock Family, Snow Partners, Omni Hotels, the Drake Family, and KSL Capital either offer a season pass that accesses all of their properties, or builds limited amounts of cross-mountain reciprocity into top-tier season passes. The robots aren't cooperating with me right now, but you can view the most current list here.On KSL ResortsKSL Resorts' property list looks more like a destination menu for deciding honeymooners than a company that happens to run two ski areas in the Pennsylvania Poconos. Mauritius, Fiji, The Maldives, Maui, Thailand… Tannersville, PA. It feels like a trap for the robots, who in their combing of our digital existence to piece together the workings of the human psyche, will simply short out when attempting to identify the parallels between the Outrigger Reef Waikiki Beach Resort and Camelback.On ski investment in the PoconosPoconos ski areas, once backwaters, have rapidly modernized over the past decade. As I wrote in 2022:Montage, Camelback, and Elk all made the expensive investment in RFID ticketing last offseason. Camelback and Blue are each getting brand-new six-packs this summer. Vail is clear-cutting its Poconos lift museum and dropping a total of five new fixed-grip quads across Jack Frost and Big Boulder (replacing a total of nine existing lifts). All of them are constantly upgrading their snowmaking plants.On Camelback's ownership historyFor the past 20 years, Camelback has mostly been owned by a series of uninteresting Investcos and property-management firms. But the ski area's founder, Jim Moore, was an interesting fellow. From his July 22, 2006 Pocono Record obituary:James "Jim" Moore, co-founder of Camelback Ski Area, died Thursday at age 90 at his home — at Camelback.Moore, a Kentucky-born, Harvard-trained tax attorney who began a lifelong love of skiing when he went to boarding school in Switzerland as a teenager, served as Camelback's president and CEO from 1963, when it was founded, to 1986."Jim Moore was a great man and an important part of the history of the Poconos," said Sam Newman, who succeeded Moore as Camelback's president. "He was a guiding force behind the building of Camelback."In 1958, Moore was a partner in the prominent Philadelphia law firm Pepper, Hamilton and Scheetz.He joined a small group of investors who partnered with East Stroudsburg brothers Alex and Charles Bensinger and others to turn the quaint Big Pocono Ski Area — open on weekends when there was enough natural snow — into Camelback Ski Area.Camelback developed one of the most advanced snowmaking systems in the country and diversified into a year-round destination for family recreation."He was one of the first people to use snowmaking," said Kathleen Marozzi, Moore's daughter. "It had never been done in the Poconos before. ... I remember the first year we opened we had no snow on the mountain."Marozzi said her father wanted to develop Camelback as a New England-type ski resort, with winding, scenic trails."He wanted a very pretty ski area," she said. "I remember when the mountain had nothing but trees on it; it had no trails.I also managed to find a circa 1951 trailmap of Big Pocono ski area on skimap.org:On Rival Racer at CamelbeachHere's a good overview of the “Rival Racer” waterslide that Makarsky mentions in our conversation:On the Stevenson ExpressHopefully KSL Resorts replaces Stevenson with another six-pack, like they did with Sullivan, and hopefully they can reconfigure it to load from one side (like Doppelmayr just did with Barker at Sunday River). Multi-directional loading is just the worst – the skiers don't know what to do with it, and you end up with a lot of half-empty chairs when no one is managing the line, which seems to be the case more often than not at Camelback.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 11/100 in 2024, and number 511 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. 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Podcast #157: Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 4, 2024 99:32

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Dec. 28. It dropped for free subscribers on Jan. 4. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoJon Schaefer, Owner and General Manager of Berkshire East, Massachusetts and Catamount, straddling the border of Massachusetts and New YorkRecorded onDecember 6, 2023About the mountainsBerkshire EastClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: The Schaefer familyLocated in: Charlemont, MassachusettsYear founded: 1960Pass affiliations:* Berkshire Summit Pass: Unlimited Access* Indy Base Pass: 2 days with blackouts (reservations required)* Indy+ Pass: 2 days, no blackouts (reservations required)Closest neighboring ski areas: Eaglebrook School (:36), Brattleboro (:48), Hermitage Club (:48), Mt. Greylock Ski Club (:52), Mount Snow (:55), Jiminy Peak (:56), Bousquet (:56); Catamount is approximately 90 minutes south of Berkshire EastBase elevation: 660 feetSummit elevation: 1,840 feetVertical drop: 1,180 feetSkiable Acres: 180Average annual snowfall: 110 inchesTrail count: 45Lift count: 7 (1 high-speed quad, 2 fixed-grip quads, 1 triple, 1 double, 2 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Berkshire East's lift fleet)View historic Berkshire East trailmaps on skimap.org.CatamountClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: The Schaefer familyLocated in: Hillsdale, New York and South Egremont, Massachusetts (the resort straddles the state line, and generally seems to use the New York address as its location of record)Year founded: 1939Pass affiliations:* Berkshire Summit Pass: Unlimited Access* Indy Base Pass and Indy+ Pass: 2 days, no blackouts (reservations required)Closest neighboring ski areas: Butternut (:19), Otis Ridge (:35), Bousquet (:40), Mohawk Mountain (:46), Jiminy Peak (:50), Mount Lakeridge (:55), Mt. Greylock Ski Club (1:02); Berkshire East sits approximately 90 minutes north of CatamountBase elevation: 1,000 feetSummit elevation: 2,000 feetVertical drop: 1,000 feetSkiable Acres: 133 acresAverage annual snowfall: 108 inchesTrail count: 44 (35% green, 42% blue, 23% black/double-black)Lift count: 8 (2 fixed-grip quads, 3 triples, 3 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Catamount's lift fleet)View historic Catamount trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himMight I nominate Massachusetts as America's most underappreciated ski state? It's easy to understand the oversight. Bordered by three major ski states that are home to a combined 107 ski areas (50 in New York, 27 in Vermont, and 30 in New Hampshire), Massachusetts contains just 13 active lift-served mountains. Two (Easton School and Mount Greylock Ski Club) are private. Five of the remainder deliver vertical drops of 400 feet or fewer. The state's entire lift-served skiable area clocks in at around 1,300 acres, which is smaller than Killington and just a touch larger than Solitude.But the code and character of those 11 public ski areas is what I'm interested in here. Winnowed from some 200 bumps that once ran ropetows up the incline, these survivors are super-adapters, the Darwinian capstones to a century-long puzzle: how to consistently offer skiing in a hostile world that hates you.New England is a rumbler, and always has been. Outside of northern Vermont's Green Mountain Spine (Sugarbush, MRG, Bolton, Stowe, Smuggs, Jay), which snags 200-plus inches of almost automatic annual snowfall, the region's six states can, on any given day from November to April, stage double as Santa's Village or serve as props for sad brown Christmas pining. Immersive reading of the New England Ski History website suggests this contemporary reality reflects historical norms: prior to the widespread introduction of snowmaking, ski areas could sometimes offer just a single-digit number of ski days in particularly difficult winters. Even now, even in good winters, the freeze-thaw cycle is relentless. The rain-snow line is a thing during big storms. Several times in recent years, including this one, furious December rainstorms have washed out weeks of early-season snow and snowmaking.And yet, like sharks, hanging on for hundreds of millions of years as mass extinctions rolled most of the rest of life into the fossil record, the surviving Massachusetts ski area operators found a way to keep moving forward. But these are not sharks – the Colorado- and Utah-based operators haven't plundered the hills rolling west of Boston just yet. Every one of these ski areas (with the exception of investment fund-owned Bousquet), is still family-owned and operated. And these families are among the smartest ski area operators in America.In October, tiny Ski Ward, owned for decades by the LaCroix family, was the first North American ski area to spin lifts for the 2023-24 ski season. Wachusett, a thousand-footer run by the Crowley family since 1968, is a model home for volume urban skiing efficiency. The Fairbank family transformed Jiminy Peak from tadpole (in the 1960s) to alligator before expanding their small empire into New England (the family now runs Bromley, Vermont and owns Cranmore, New Hampshire). The Murdock family has run Butternut since its 1963 founding, and likely saved nearby Otis Ridge from extinction by purchasing the ski area in 2016 (the Murdocks also purchased, but later closed, another nearby ski area, Ski Blandford).The Schaefers, of Charlemont by way of Michigan, are as wiley and wired as any of them. Patriarch Roy Schaefer drove in from the Midwest with a station wagon full of kids in 1978. He stapled then-bankrupt Berkshire East together with the refuse of dead and dying ski areas from all over America. Some time in the mid- to late-aughts, Roy's son Jon took over daily operations and rapidly modernized the lifts, snowmaking, and trail network. Roy's other son Jim, a Wall-Streeter, helped the family take full ownership of the ski area. In 2018, they bought Catamount, a left-behind bump with fantastic fall lines but dated lifts and snowmaking.None of this is new or news to anyone who pays attention to Massachusetts skiing. In fact, Jon Schaefer has appeared on my podcasts twice before (and I've been on his). But in the four years since he joined me for episode nine, a lot has changed at Berkshire, at Catamount, in New England, and across skiing. Daily, the narrative grows that consolidation and megapasses are squeezing family operators out of skiing. My daily work suggests that the opposite may be happening, that independent operators, who have outlasted skiing's extinction event of the low-snow decades and perfected their mad alchemy through decades of swinging the pickaxe into the same mountain, have never had a better story to tell. And Jon Schaefer has one of the better ways of telling it.What we talked aboutEarly openings for both ski areas; what it means that Catamount opened before Berkshire East this season; snowmaking metaphors that I can guarantee you haven't heard before; letting go of things you love as you take on more responsibility; the power of ropetows; Berkshire East's new T-Bar Express, the ski area's first high-speed quad; why Schaefer finally came around on detachable lift technology; the unique dynamics of a multi-generational, family-owned mountain; the long-term plan for the three current top-to-bottom chairlifts; the potential Berkshire East expansion; yes Berkshire is getting busier; the strange math of high-speed versus fixed-grip quads; that balance between modernizing and retaining atmosphere; the Indy Pass' impact on Berkshire and the industry as a whole; whether more mountains could join the Berkshire Summit Pass; whether the Schaefers could buy another ski area; whether they considered buying Jay Peak or are considering buying Burke; assessing the overhaul of Catamount's lift fleet; talking through the clear-cutting of Catamount's frontside trails; parking at Catamount; expansion potential for Catamount; and Catamount being “one of the best small ski areas in the country.”Below: first chair on the new T-Bar Express at Berkshire East:Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewIf I could somehow itemize and sort the thousands of Storm-related emails and Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook messages that I've read over the past four years, a top-10 request would be some form of this: get Schaefer back on the podcast.There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that Jon is, in my opinion, one of the more unfiltered and original thinkers in skiing. His dad moved the family to Berkshire in 1978. Jon was born in 1980. That means he grew up on the mountain and he lives at the mountain and he holds its past, present, and future in his vision like some shaman of the Berkshires, orchestrating its machinations in a hallucinogenic flow state, crafting, from the ether, a ski area like no other in America.Which leads to the second reason. Because Schaefer is so willful and effective, it can often be difficult for outsiders to see into the eye of the hurricane. You kind of have to let the storm pass. And the past four years have been a bit of a storm, particularly at Catamount, where Covid and supply-chain issues collided with an ambitious but protracted lift-fleet upgrade.But that's all done. Catamount has five functioning chairlifts (all of which, remarkably, were relocated from somewhere else). Berkshire just opened its first high-speed quad, the T-Bar Express. Both mountains are busier than ever, and Berkshire is a perennial Indy Pass top 10 by number of redemptions. And while expansion and a lift shuffle likely loom at Berkshire, both ski areas are, essentially, what the Schaefers want them to be.Which doesn't mean they are ever finished. Schaefer and I touch on this existential reality in the podcast, but we also discuss the other obvious question: now that Catamount's gut-renovation is wrapping up, what's next? Could this ski family, with their popular Berkshire Summit Pass (which is also good at Bousquet), expand with more owned or partner mountains? There are, after all, only so many people in America who know how to capably operate a ski area. You can learn, sure, but most people suck at it, which is (one reason) why there are more lost ski areas than active ones. While I don't root for consolidation necessarily, if ski areas are going to transfer ownership, I'd rather someone proven sign the deed than an unknown. And when it comes to proven, the Schaefers have proven as much as anyone in the country.Questions I wish I'd askedAt some point over the past few years, the Schaefers purchased a Rossland, B.C.-based Cat skiing operation called Big Red Cats. Their terrain covers 20,000 acres on eight peaks. I'm not sure why we didn't get into it.What I got wrongI said that Indy Pass had 130 alpine partners. That was correct on Dec. 6, when we conducted the interview, but the pass has since added Moose Mountain, Alaska and Hudson Bay Mountain, B.C., bringing the total up to 132.Why you should ski Berkshire East and CatamountWhile age, injuries, perspective, volume, skiing with children, and this newsletter have all changed my approach to where and what I ski on any given day, the thing I still love most is the fight. Riding the snowy mountain, in its bruising earthly form, through its trees and drops and undulations, feeling part of something raw and wild. I don't like speed. I like technical and varied terrain that requires deliberate, thoughtful turns. This I find profoundly interesting, like a book that offers, with each page, a captivating new thing.Massachusetts is a great ski state, but it doesn't have a lot of what I just described, that sort of ever-rolling wickedness you'll find clinging to certain mountains in Vermont and New Hampshire. But the state does have one such ski area: Berkshire East. She's ready to fight. Glades and bumps and little cliffs in the woods. Jiminy and Wachusett give you high-speed lifts and operational excellence, but they don't give you (more than nominal) trees. For a skier looking to summon a little Mad River Glen but save themselves a three-hour drive, Berkshire East goes on the storm-chase list.But unlike MRG, Berkshire is a top-to-bottom snowmaking house, and it has to be. While the glades are amazing when you can get them, the operating assumption here is that, more often than not, you can't. And that means the vast majority of skiers – those who prefer groomers to whatever frolics you find in the trees – can head to Berkshire knowing a good day awaits.Catamount, less-snowy and closer to New York City, gives you a more traditional Massachusetts ski experience. More people (it seems), less exploring in the trees (though you can do this a bit). What it has in common with Berkshire is that Catamount is an excellent natural ski mountain. Fall lines, headwalls, winders through the trees. A thousand vert gives you a good run. Head there on a weekday in March, when the whole joint is open, and let them run.Podcast NotesOn Schaefer's previous podcast appearancesSchaefer was the first person to ever agree to join me on The Storm Skiing Podcast, answering my cold email in about four seconds. “Let's do it,” he wrote. It took us a few months to make it happen, but he joined me for episode nine. While he showed up huge, the episode also doubles as a showcase for how much better my own production quality has gotten over the past four years. The intro is sorta… flat:A few months later, Schaefer became the first operator in America to shutter his mountains to help stop the spread of Covid-19. He almost immediately launched an organization called Goggles for Docs, and he joined me on my “Covid-19 & Skiing” miniseries to discuss the initiative:The next year, I joined Jon on his Berkshire Sessions podcast, where we discussed his mountains and Northeast skiing in general:On historic opening and closing dates at Berkshire East and CatamountWe discussed Berkshire and Catamount's historical opening and closing dates. Here's what the past 10 years looked like (the Schaefers took over Catamount starting with the 2018-19 ski season):On Berkshire SnowbasinSchaefer discussed the now-defunct Berkshire Basin ski area in nearby Cummington. The ski area operated from 1949 to 1989, according to New England Ski History, and counted a 550-foot vertical drop (though the map below says 500). Here's a circa 1984 trailmap:Schaefer references efforts to re-open this ski area as a backcountry center, though I couldn't find any reporting on the topic.Stan Brown, whom Schaefer cites for his insight that skiers “are more interested in how they get up the mountain than how they get down” founded Berkshire Snow Basin with his wife, Ruth.On high-speed ropetowsI'll never stop yelling about these things until everyone installs one – these high-speed ropetows can move 4,000 skiers per hour and cost all of $50,000. A more perfect terrain park lift does not exist. This one is at Spirit Mountain, Minnesota (video by me):On when the T-bar came out of Berkshire EastSchaefer refers to the old T-bar that occupied the line where the new high-speed quad now sits. The lift did not extend to the summit, but ran 1,800 feet up from the base, along the run that is still known as Competition (lift F below):On Schaefer's past resistance to high-speed liftsShaun Sutner, a longtime snowsports reporter who has appeared on this podcast three times – most recently in November – summarized Schaefer's onetime resistance to detachable lifts in a 2015 Worcester Telegram & Gazette article:The start of the 2014-15 ski season came with the B-East's first-ever summit quad, a $2 million fixed-grip "medium-speed" lift from Skytrac, a new U.S.-owned lift company. The low-maintenance, elegantly simple conveyance will save millions of dollars over the years. Not only was it less than half the cost of a high-speed detachable quad, but it also eliminates the need for $300,000-$500,000 grip replacements that high-speed lifts need every three or four years.So what changed Schaefer's mind? We discussed in the podcast.On the potential Berkshire East expansionWhile Berkshire East has teased an expansion for several years, details remain scarce (rumors, unfortunately, do not). Schaefer tells us what he's willing to on the podcast, and this image, which the resort presented to a local planning board last year, shows the approximate location of the new terrain pod (around the red dotted line labeled “4”):While this plan suggests the Mountain Top Triple would move to serve the expansion, that may not necessarily be the final plan, Schaefer confirms.On “the gondola side of Stowe” When Schaefer says that the Berkshire expansion will ski like “the gondola side of Stowe,” he's referring to the terrain pod indicated below:Stowe has two gondolas, one of which connects Stowe proper to Spruce Peak, but that's not the terrain he's referring to. The double chair side of Plattekill also skis in the way Schaefer describes, as a series of figure-eights that delightfully frazzles the senses, making the ski area feel far larger than it actually is:On Indy Pass rankingsBerkshire East has finished as a top-10 mountain in number of Indy Pass redemptions every season:On LiftopiaSchaefer references Liftopia, a former online lift ticket broker whose legacy is fading. At one time, I was a huge fan of this Expedia-of-skiing site, where you could score substantial discounts to most major non-Vail ski areas. I hosted founder and CEO Evan Reece way back on podcast number 8:Sadly, the company collapsed with the onset of Covid, as I documented back in 2020:…the industry's most-prominent pure tech entity – Liftopia – has been teetering on existential collapse since failing to pay significant numbers of its partners following the March shutdown. A group of ski area operators tried forcing Liftopia into bankruptcy to recoup their funds. They failed, then appealed, then withdrew that appeal. Outside of the public record, bitter and betrayed ski area operators fumed about the loss of revenues that, as Aspen Snowmass CFO Matt Jones wrote in emails filed in federal court, “were never yours to begin with.” In August, Liftopia CEO Evan Reece announced that he had signed a letter of intent to sell the company.That new owner, Liftopia announced Friday, would be Skitude, a European tech outfit specializing in mobile apps. “The proceeds from the sale will be used to pay creditors,” SAM reported. In an email to an independent ski area operator that was shared with The Storm Skiing Journal Reece wrote that “…all claims will be treated equally,” without specifying whether partners could expect a full or partial repayment. The message also indicated that the new owner may “prioritize ongoing partners,” though it was unclear whether that indicated preference in future business terms or payback of owed funds, or something else altogether.Whatever the outcome, this unsatisfying story is a tale of enormous missed opportunity. No company was better positioned to help lift-served skiing adapt to the social-distancing age than Liftopia. It could have easily expanded and adapted its highly regarded technology to accommodate the almost universal shift to online-only sales for lift tickets, rental reservations, ski lessons, and even appointment times in the lodge. It had 15 years of brand recognition with customers and deep relationships within the ski industry.But ski areas, uncertain about Liftopia's future, have spent an offseason when they could have been building out their presence on a familiar platform scrambling for replacement tech solutions. In addition to the Liftopia-branded site, many ski areas used Liftopia's Cloud Store platform to sell day tickets, season passes, rentals, and more. While it is unclear how many former partners shifted to another point-of-sale system this offseason, several have confirmed to The Storm Skiing Journal that they have done so.I'm not sure how Liftopia would have faired against the modern version of the Indy Pass, but more choice is almost always better for consumers, and I'm still bitter about how this one collapsed.On CaddyshackMovie quotes are generally lost on me, but Schaefer references this one from Caddyshack, so I looked it up and this is what the robots fed me:On the majority of skier visits now being on a season passAccording to the National Ski Areas Association, season pass holders have surpassed day-ticket buyers for total number of skier visits for four consecutive seasons. Without question, this is simply because the industry has gotten very good at incentivizing season pass sales by rolling the most well-known ski areas onto the Epic and Ikon passes. It is unclear whether the NSAA counts the Indy or Mountain Collective passes as season passes, but the number of each of those sold is small in comparison to Epic and Ikon.On the Berkshire Summit PassThe Schaefers have been leaders in establishing compelling regional multimountain ski passes. The Berkshire Summit Pass has, since 2020, delivered access to three solid western Massachusetts ski areas: Berkshire East, Catamount, and partner mountain Bousquet (on the unlimited version only). It is available in unlimited, Sunday through Friday, midweek, and nights-only versions. An Indy Pass add-on makes this a badass cross-New England ski product.On Burke being great and accessible even though it looks as though it's parked at the ass-end of nowhereThe first piece of ski writing I ever published was a New York Ski Blog recap of a Burke ski day in 2019:Last week, winter seemed to be winding down, with above-freezing temps forecast clear up to Canada before St. Patrick's Day. Desperate to extend winter, I had my sights on a storm forecast to dump nearly a foot of new snow across northern Vermont. After considering my options, I locked onto a hill I'd overlooked in 20 years of skiing Vermont: Burke.I'd read the online commentary: steep, funky, heavily gladed, classic New England twisty with high-quality snow well-preserved by cold temps and a lack of crowds. But to get there you have to drive past some big-name ski areas, most with equal or greater vertical drop, skiable acreage and average annual snowfall.Further research uncovered a secret Burke advantage over its better-known neighbors: unlike other mountains that require a post-expressway slog of 30-plus miles on local roads, Burke sits just seven miles off Interstate 91, meaning it was actually the closest northern Vermont option by drive time.As 10 inches of snow piled up Sunday and Monday and areas to the south teeter-tottered along a freeze-thaw cycle that would turn ungroomed trails to granite, Burke looked like my last best shot at mid-winter conditions.Two days after the storm, on the last day of below-freezing temps, I left Brooklyn at 4 am and arrived at 9:15. Read the rest…On Burke's (mostly) hapless ownership historyWe talk quite a bit about Burke Mountain, one of those good New England ski areas with a really terrible business record. Schaefer refers to the unusually huge number of former owners, which, according to New England Ski History, include:* 1964: Burke Mountain Recreation (Doug Kitchel) buys area; eventually went bankrupt* 1987: Paul D. Quinn buys, eventually sells to bank after his bank goes bankrupt* 1990: Hilco, Inc., a bank, takes ownership, then sells to…* 1991: Bernd Schaefers (no relation to Jon), under whom the ski area eventually went bankrupt (for the second time)* 1995: Northern Star Ski Corporation (five owners) buys the ski area, but it eventually goes bankrupt for a third time* 2000: Unidentified auction winner buys Burke and sells it to…* 2000: Burke Mountain Academy, who never wanted to be long-term owner, and sold to…* 2005: Laubert-Adler and the Ginn Corporation, who sold to…* 2012: Aerial Quiros, who engaged in all kinds of shadiness* 2016: Burke becomes the property of U.S. America, as court-appointed receiver takes control of this and Jay Peak. While Jay sold last year, Burke remains for saleOn media reports indicating that there is a bid on BurkeI got excited earlier this year, when the excellent Vermont Digger reported that the sales process for Burke appeared to be underway:Michael Goldberg, the court-appointed receiver in charge of overseeing Burke Mountain ski resort for more than seven years, has an offer to buy the scandal-plagued ski resort in Vermont's Northeast Kingdom.News of the bid came from a recent court filing submitted by Goldberg, predicting that a sale of the property would take place “later this year.”The filing does not name the bidder or the amount of the bid, but the document stated that Goldberg wants to continue to seek qualified buyers, and if a matching or higher price is offered, an auction would be held to sell the resort. …“The Receiver has received an initial offer, and expects to file a motion with the Court in the next month recommending an identical sales process to the Jay Peak sale – a ‘stalking horse' bid, followed by an auction and a subsequent motion asking the Court to approve a final sale,” Goldberg stated in his recent court filing regarding Burke.Well, nothing happened, though the bid remains active, as far as I know. So who knows. I hope whoever buys Burke next, this place can finally stabilize and build.On the West Mountain expansion at CatamountSchaefer discusses a potential expansion at Catamount. New England Ski History hosts a summary page for this one as well:A lift and a variety of trails are proposed for the west side of the ski area, crossing over the Lower Sidewinder trail. The lift would climb 650 vertical feet from a new parking lot to the junction of Upper and Lower Sidewinder. 6 trail segments would be cut above and below the lower switchback of the Lower Sidewinder Trail. All of the terrain would be located in New York state.Here's a circa 2014 map, showing the proposed expansion looker's right:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 113/100 in 2023, and number 498 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. This is a public episode. 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Podcast #153: Attitash Mountain General Manager Brandon Swartz

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2023 79:24

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 21. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 28. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoBrandon Swartz, General Manager of Attitash Mountain Resort, New HampshireRecorded onNovember 6, 2023About AttitashClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Bartlett, New HampshireYear founded: 1964Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass: unlimited access* Epic Local Pass: unlimited access* Northeast Value Pass: unlimited access* Northeast Midweek Pass: unlimited midweek access* Epic Day Pass: 1 to 7 days of access with all resorts, 32-resorts, and 22-resorts tiersClosest neighboring ski areas: Black Mountain (:14), Cranmore (:16), Wildcat (:23), Bretton Woods (:28), King Pine (:35), Pleasant Mountain (:45), Mt. Eustis (:49), Cannon (:49), Loon (1:04), Sunday River (1:04), Mt. Abram (1:07)Base elevation: 600 feetSummit elevation: 2,350 feet at the top of Attitash PeakVertical drop: 1,750 feetSkiable Acres: 311-plusAverage annual snowfall: 120 inchesTrail count: 68 (27% most difficult, 44% intermediate, 29% novice)Lift count: 8 (3 high-speed quads, 2 fixed-grip quads, 2 triples, 1 surface lift – view Lift Blog's inventory of Attitash's lift fleet)View historic Attitash trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himAsk any casual NBA fan which player won the most championships in the modern era, and they will probably give you Michael and Scottie. Six titles, two threepeats, '91 to '93 and '96 to '98. And it would've been eight in a row had MJ not followed his spirit animal onto the baseball diamond for two summers, they might add.But they're wrong. The non-1950s-to-‘60s player with the most NBA titles is Robert Horry, Big Shot Bob, who played an important role in seven title runs with three teams: the 1994 and '95 Houston Rockets; the 2000, 2001, and 2002 Lakers; and the 2005 and '07 San Antonio Spurs. While he's not in the hall of fame (Shaq thinks he should be), and doesn't make The Athletic or Hoops Hype's top 75 lists, Stadium Talk lists Horry as one of the 25 most clutch players of all time.Attitash might be skiing's Robert Horry. Always in the halo of greatness, never the superstar. Vail Resorts is the ski area's third consecutive conglomerate owner, and the third straight that doesn't quite seem to know what to do with the place. LBO Resort Enterprises opened Bear Peak in 1994, but then seemed to forget about Attitash after the merger with American Skiing Company two years later (ASC did install the Flying Yankee detachable quad in 1998). Peak Resorts picked Attitash out of ASC's rubbish bin in 2007, then mostly let the place languish for a decade before chopping down the Top Notch double chair in 2018 with no explanation. That left no redundant route to the top of Attitash peak, which became a problem when the Summit Triple dropped dead for most of the 2018-19 ski season. Rather than replace the lift, Peak repaired it, then handed the spruced-up-but-still-hated machine off to Vail Resorts, along with the rest of its portfolio, that summer.Like someone who inherits a jam-packed storage bin from a distant strange relative, Vail spent a couple of years just staring at all the boxes, uncertain what was in them and kind of afraid to look. Those first few winters, which corresponded with Covid, labor shortages, and supply-chain issues, weren't great ones at Attitash. A general sense of dysfunction reigned: snowmaking lagged, lifts opened late in the season or not at all, generic corporate statements thanked the hardworking teams without acknowledging the mountain's many urgent shortcomings. As it was picking through the storage unit, Vail made the strange decision of stacking the New Hampshire box next to the Midwest boxes, effectively valuing Attitash and long-suffering sister resort Wildcat – both with 2,000-ish-foot vertical drops and killer terrain – on the same day-pass tier as 240-foot Mad River, Ohio and 35-acre Snow Creek, Missouri. Anyone committed to arguing against absentee ownership of New England ski areas had a powerful exhibit A with Attitash.Then, last year, Vail opened the Attitash box. And instead of the Beanie Baby collection and Battle of Hamburger Hill commemorative coins that the company expected to find, they pulled out a stack of Microsoft stock certificates from the 1986 IPO. And they were like, “Well now, these might be worth something.”So they got to work. The company improved snowmaking. They replaced the 49-year-old East/West double-double with a brand-new fixed-grip quad. They raised the companywide minimum wage to $20 an hour, well above average for New Hampshire, helping Attitash staff up and resemble a functioning business. Then, this summer, they finally did it: demolished the wickedly inefficient Summit Triple and replaced it with a glimmering high-speed quad.Of course, in true Attitash fashion, the Mountaineer, as the new lift is called, was the last of 60-plus 2023 lift projects in North America to fly towers. But the chair will be open this winter, and it should reset the mountain's rap. Whether Mountaineer will finally push the resort's reputation and stature to match its burly vertical drop and trail count remains to be seen. Ski's readers did not list Attitash on their top 20 eastern ski areas for 2023. Z Rankings lists the mountain 28th in the East.Unlike NBA players, ski areas' careers span generations. In this way, they're more like the franchises themselves. Sometimes the Lakers have Magic or Kobe, and in some eras, well, they don't. Attitash just went a few decades without a franchise player. They may have finally drafted one. This is a top-20 New England ski area that may finally be ready to act like it.What we talked aboutThe overdue death of the Attitash triple; the story behind the “Mountaineer” lift name; why a high-speed quad was the right replacement lift; take the train to the mountain; what happened to the lift tower that Flying Yankee and Summit Triple shared; expansion opportunities off Attitash Peak; other alignments the ski area considered for Mountaineer; why and where Attitash moved the Mountaineer lift load station; the circa-Peak Resorts Mount Snow intelligentsia; Vail's culture of internal development and promotion; the unique challenges of running Attitash in a very crowded neighborhood; the Attitash-Wildcat combo; the Progression Quad replacement for the East/West double-double; considering Bear Peak's lift fleet; why glades disappeared from Attitash's trailmap, and why they're back; whether the old Top Notch double chair line could ever enter the official trail network; snowmaking upgrades; how big of an impact the $20-an-hour minimum wage had on Attitash; employee housing; Northeast-specific Epic Passes; and the Epic Day Pass.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewThe Mountaineer, of course. For 30 years, successive owners have insisted that Attitash Peak was incompatible with a high-speed quad: too much capacity feeding too few trails from a lift that would cost too much to build.Well, Vail built it. So Swartz and I discuss why, after saying no for so long, mom finally bought us our expensive toy. I won't get into that here, because that's what the podcast is for, but I will make this point: there is a dirt-stupid but persistent narrative that Vail Resorts doesn't care about its eastern properties, and only bought them to entice monied New Englanders to its western trophies. But, nearly seven years after entering the region with the surprise purchase of Stowe, Vail has done plenty to disprove that notion, launching Northeast-specific Epic Passes in 2020; installing new six-packs at Stowe, Mount Snow, and Okemo; adding high-speed quads at Attitash and Mount Snow; and moving another HSQ at Okemo. It's been a quiet but complete gut-renovation of what had been some very tired ski areas.Vail must feel, often, like it can't win. They're often framed as elitists for building too much and as cheapskates for investing too little. Social media piles on because their resorts are too busy but also because they're priced too high. I'll admit that I criticize them for making lift tickets too expensive and passes too cheap. The Mountaineer, which New England has spent two decades begging for, will likely draw criticism for overcrowding Attitash as skiers soon forget the aches and pains of the Summit Triple.Skiers can be impossible pains in the ass, no question. But Vail showed up at the steakhouse and came back to the table with the whole buffet. In the five years from 2016 to 2021, Vail purchased 29 ski areas. Prior to that, it owned just 11. That's nearly a quadrupling of size in half a decade. That would be challenging at any time. Add the Covid face-rearranging, and it was nearly impossible to digest.After several rough winters, however, Vail may be taming this herd of feral horses. They're not done yet, but things are calming down. The lift investments are helping, management is stabilizing. They still need to loosen the reigns on snowmaking outside of the West, better limit crowds on peak days, and find a less-gun-to-the-head method of incentivizing Epic Pass sales than $299 lift tickets. But Vail Resorts, as a stable entity rather than a growth monster, is beginning to gel, and Attitash symbolizes that metamorphosis as well as any mountain in the portfolio.What I got wrongWe alluded to the fact that Attitash would fly the Mountaineer towers on the day we recorded this, Nov. 6. Weather delays pushed that installation to later in the month.This isn't something I got wrong at the time, but the Epic Day Pass rates I mentioned were tier four prices. They've since increased slightly. Here are the current (and final) rates (the 22-resorts tier gets you in the door at Attitash):Why you should ski AttitashLet's continue the basketball metaphor. Who's your starting five if New Hampshire is your basketball team? Cannon makes the roster by default, a 2,180-footer with the best terrain in the state. Go ahead and fill out the roster with your other 2,000-footers: Loon, with its jungle gym of fancy upgraded lifts; Wildcat, with its Mount Washington views and high-speed top-to-bottom laps of twisted glory; and sprawling, falling Waterville Valley.So who's your number five? I'd accept arguments for gorgeous Mount Sunapee, beefy Bretton Woods, or Attitash. But as captain, I'm probably picking Attitash. Maybe not the Attitash of three years ago, but the Attitash that just got back from Chairlift Camp and can now offer a true, modern ski experience across its two mountains.But, carve away the cosmetics, and the truth is that Attitash is an incredible ski mountain. That 1,750 vertical feet is all fall line, consistent, beautiful cruisers up and down. It's not the steepest mountain, or the snowiest, or the most convenient to get to – you'll drive past Waterville and Loon and Cannon to get there (or not, Route Expert Bro; save it for your Powder DAWGZ WhatsApp chat). But from a pure, freefalling skiing point of view, it's among the best in the east. Just maybe don't show up at 11 a.m. on a Saturday.Podcast NotesOn the Top Notch DoubleI'm not sure if anyone ever really loved Attitash's Summit Triple, but the removal of the parallel Top Notch double in 2018 intensified focus on the summit lift's shortcomings. Here's where Top Notch ran (Lift 1 far looker's left):No one has ever really given me a good answer as to why former owner Peak Resorts removed that lift without a backup plan, but the timing could not have been worse – the Summit Triple suffered a series of catastrophic mechanical failures in late 2018 and early 2019, effectively shuttering the upper part of Attitash Peak for the bulk of that ski season.Anyway, once Peak removed the lift, the liftline stayed on the trailmap, suggesting that it may join the official trail network at some point:But the liftline slowly faded:This year, the old ghost line is gone completely:On the shared Flying Yankee-Attitash Summit Triple towerAn engineering quirk of the Summit Triple is that it shared a tower with the Flying Yankee high-speed quad, which crossed below the older lift:So what happened to that tower? We discuss it in the podcast.On the train from North ConwayEventually, U.S. America will have to figure out better ways to tie cities to its mountains. One of the best ways to do this is also one of the oldest: trains. Swartz and I briefly discuss the train that runs from downtown North Conway and drops you at the Attitash base. I looked into this a bit more, and unfortunately it's more of a novelty than a practical commuter service at this point. It's expensive ($40 per person roundtrip for coach), slow (the train ride takes around half an hour, compared to a 16-minute drive), and inconvenient, with the first trains arriving at the mountain around 11 a.m. and the latest one departing the mountain at 2:40. Not a great ski day, and the schedule is, for now, fairly limited, running weekends and holidays from the day after Christmas to late February. You can book rides and see details here.On the Attitash masterplanAttitash, like all ski areas that sit partially or fully on Forest Service land, is required to file an updated masterplan every so often. Unlike the highly organized western Forest Service divisions, however, which often have their ski area masterplans neatly organized online (three cheers for Colorado's White River National Forest), eastern districts rarely bother. So, while we discuss the mountain's masterplan, I couldn't find it, and the ski area couldn't readily provide it.On the Mystery of the Missing GladesCirca 2011, Attitash's trailmap called out several named glades on Bear Peak:By 2020, 10 marked glades appeared across both peaks, though Attitash had removed their names:By last season, all of them had disappeared:But this year, some (but not all) of the legacy glades, are back:What's going on? We discuss this in the podcast.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 101/100 in 2023, and number 487 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #149: Cranmore President and General Manager Ben Wilcox

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2023 91:20

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Oct. 26. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 2. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoBen Wilcox, President and General Manager of Cranmore Mountain Resort, New HampshireRecorded onOctober 16, 2023About CranmoreClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: The Fairbank GroupLocated in: North Conway, New HampshireYear founded: 1937Pass affiliations: NoneReciprocal partners: 1 day each at Jiminy Peak and BromleyClosest neighboring ski areas: Attitash (:16), Black Mountain (:18), King Pine (:28), Wildcat (:28), Pleasant Mountain (:33), Bretton Woods (:42)Base elevation: 800 feetSummit elevation: 2,000 feetVertical drop: 1,200 feetSkiable Acres: 170 acresAverage annual snowfall: 80 inchesTrail count: 56 (15 most difficult, 25 intermediate, 16 easier)Lift count: 7 (1 high-speed quad, 1 fixed-grip quad, 2 triples, 1 double, 2 carpets)Why I interviewed himNowhere does a high-speed quad transform the texture and fate of a mountain so much as in New England. Western mountains, geographically dispersed and disposed to sunshine, can still sell you a ride on a 1,700-vertical-foot fixed grip triple, as Montana Snowbowl did with their new Transporter lift last year, and which Mt. Spokane has promised to do should the ski area ever upgrade its Jurassic Riblets. Midwest hills are too short for lift speed to matter as anything other than a novelty.But in the blustery, frenetic East, a single detachable lift can profoundly alter a ski area's reach and rap. Such lifts have proven to be stabilizing mechanisms at Burke, Gunstock, Ragged, Bromley, and Saddleback – mountains without the terrain or marketing heft of their much-larger neighbors. In each case, one high-speed quad (and a sixer at Ragged), cracked the mountain open to the masses, uniting all or most of the terrain with one six-minute lift ride and, often, stabilizing operations that had struggled for decades.Cranmore is one such mountain. Had the Skimobile Express quad not gone up in 1995, Wilcox tells us on the podcast, he's not so sure that the ski area hanging over North Conway would have gotten out of the last century alive. A “dark period” followed the Skimobile's 1990 demolition, Wilcox says, during which Cranmore, tottering along on a double chair strung to the summit, fell behind its high-dollar, high-energy, rapidly consolidating competitors. The Skimobile had been pokey and inefficient, but at least it was freighted with nostalgia. At least it was novel. At least it was cool. An old double chair was just an old double chair, and local skiers had lost interest in those when high-speed lifts started rising up the New England mountainsides in the late 1980s.It's true that a handful of New England ski areas continue to rely on antique doubles: Smugglers' Notch, Magic, Black Mountain in New Hampshire, Mt. Abram. But Smuggs delivers 300 inches of snow per winter and a unique, sprawling terrain network. The rest are improbable survivors. Magic sat idle for half the ‘90s. We nearly lost Black earlier this month. All anybody knows about Mt. Abram is that it's not Sunday River.The Skimobile Express did not, by itself, save Cranmore. If such a lift were such a magic trick, then we'd still be skiing the top of Ascutney today (yes Uphill Bro I know you still are). But the lift helped. A lot.There is a tendency among skiers to conflate history with essence. As though a ski area, absent the trappings of its 1930s or ‘40s or ‘50s origins, loses something. These same skiers, however, do not rip around on 240s clapped to beartrap bindings or ski in top hats and mink shawls. Cranmore could not simply be The Ski Area With The Skimobile forever and ever. Not after every other ski area in New England, including Cranmore, had erected multiple chairlifts. There is a small market for such tricks. Mad River Glen can spin its single chair for 100 more years if the co-op ownership model holds up. But that is a rowdy, rugged hunk of real estate, 2,000 feet of nasty, a place where being uncomfortable is half the point. Cranmore… is not.So Cranmore changed. It is now a nice, modern, mid-sized New England ski area, with a 1,200-foot vertical drop and a hotel at the base. More important, it is an 86-year-old New England ski area, one that began in the era when guys named Harv and Mel and Bob and Jenkins showed up with a hacksaw and a 12-pack and started building a lift-served snowskiing operation, and transitioned into a new identity suited to a new world. Wilcox, with his grasp of the resort's sprawling, mad history, is a capable ambassador to tell us how they did it.What we talked aboutThe new Fairbank base lodge; what Cranmore found when they tore down the old lodge; the future of Zip's Pub; who the lodge is named after; the base lodge redevelopment plan; what happened when the Fairbanks purchased Cranmore; North Conway; traffic; Bretton Woods; Booth Creek; Cranmore pride; “if [the Skimobile Express] hadn't gone in in the mid-90s, I'm not sure if we'd still be here”; the Skimobile Express upgrade and why Cranmore didn't replace it with a new lift; the history of America's Zaniest lift, the original Skimobile; why Cranmore ultimately demolished the structure; potential upgrades for Lookout; the long-rumored but never-built Blackcap expansion; the glory and grind of southern exposure; night skiing; what happened when Vail came to town; competing against discount Epic Passes; why the days of car-counting are over; the history and logic behind the White Mountain Super Pass and the Sun and Snow Pass; Black Mountain; staffing up when your biggest rival raises minimum wage to $20 an hour; and whether Cranmore has considered a Jiminy Peak-esque wind turbine.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewThe Fairbank Group did something unsung and brilliant over the past two years. While major resorts across the continent razed and replaced first-generation detachables at a per-project cost approaching or exceeding double-digit millions, Cranmore (which Fairbank owns), and Bromley (which they operate), modernized in a more modest way. Rather than tearing down the high-speed quads that act as base-to-summit people-movers for each ski area, they gut-renovated them. For around $1 million per lift, Bromley's Sun Mountain Express and Cranmore's Skimobile Express got new, modern drives, comms lines, safety systems, and more. The result: two essentially brand-new lifts with three-plus decades of good life ahead of them.Skiers may not see it that way, and most won't even know about the upgrades. The aesthetics, mostly, remain unchanged. But for independent ski area operators knocked into eyes-bulging terror as they see price quotes for a Double Clutch Z-Link Awesomeness 42-passenger Express Lift, the Fairbank model offers an approachable alternative. Knock down the walls, but keep the building intact, a renovation rather than a rebuild.Boyne does this all the time, mostly with lifts the company is relocating: the Kanc quad at Loon becomes the Seven Brothers quad; Big Sky's Swift Current quad becomes Sugarloaf's Bucksaw Express; Sunday River's Jordan quad is, someday, maybe, supposedly going to land at Pleasant Mountain. Sugarloafers may grumble on their message boards about getting a used quad while Sunday River erects its second D-Line bubble lift in two years, but, as Loon President/GM Brian Norton told me about the Seven Brothers upgrade on the podcast last year, the effect of such projects are that skiers get “a new lift… you won't recognize it.” Other than the towers and the chairs, the machine parts of these machines really are brand new.Cranmore and its sister resorts have found a different way to sustainably operate, is my point here. The understated chairlift upgrades are just one expression of this. But both operate, remember, in impossible neighborhoods. Bromley is visible from almost any point on Alterra-owned Stratton, Southern Vermont's Ikon Pass freight train. Cranmore sits just down the road from Vail-owned Attitash and Wildcat, both of which are larger, and both of which share a pass – which, by the way, is less expensive than Cranmore's – with each other and with their 20 or 50 or 60 best friends, depending upon how Epic you want your winter to be. The local lift-served skiing market is so treacherous that Black Mountain, less than 11 miles north of Cranmore and in continuous operation since 1935, was saved from permanent closure last week only when Indy Pass called in the cavalry.Yet, Cranmore thrives. Wilcox says that season pass sales continue to increase every year. Going into year five of Northeast-specific Epic Pass offerings and year six of the Ikon Pass, that's an amazing statistic. Cranmore's pass is not cheap. The early-bird adult price for the 2023-24 ski season came in at $775. It's currently $1,139. For a 1,200-vertical-foot mountain in a state full of 2,000-footers, with just one high-speed lift in a neighborhood where Sunday River runs five, statistical equivalencies quickly fail any attempt to explain this momentum.So what does explain it? Perhaps it's the resort's massive, ongoing base area renovation that landed a new hotel and lodge onsite within the past year. Perhaps it's consumer habit and proximity to North Conway, looming, as the mountain does, over town. Perhaps it's the approachable, just-right size of the mountain or, for families, the fact that all trails funnel back to a single base. Perhaps it's the massive seasonal youth and race programs. It is, most likely, a combination of all of these things, as well as atmospheric intangibles and managerial competence.Whatever it is, Cranmore shows us that a pathway exists for a Very Good Mountain to thrive in the megapass era without being a direct party to it. It's worth noting that Black, which nearly failed, is a fifth-year member of Indy Pass, which Cranmore has declined to join. While this conversation with Wilcox does not exactly explain how the mountain has been so successful even as it sidesteps megatrends, it's easy enough to appreciate, as you listen to his passion for and appreciation of the place, why it does.What I got wrongI noted that the Skimobile Express quad had been upgraded “last year, or maybe the year before.” Cranmore completed the lift overhaul in 2022.I referred to Vail's Northeast Value Epic Pass as the “Northeast Local Pass.”Why you should ski CranmoreThe New England Ski Safari is not quite the social media meme that it is in the big-mountain West, where Campervan Karl and Bearded Bob document their season-long adventures over switchbacking passes with their trusty dog, Labrador Larry. Alta/Snowbird to Jackson to Big Sky to Sun Valley to Tahoe with a sickness Brah. Hella wicked rad. Six weeks and 16 storms, snowshovels in the roof box and Larry pouncing through snow in IG Stories.Distance is not such an obstacle in the East. New England crams 100 ski areas into a six-state region half the size of Montana (which is home to just 17, two of which it shares with Idaho). Between pow runs we can just… go home. But the advent of the megapass in the Northeast over the past decade has enabled this sort of resort-hopping adventure. Options abound:* Epic Pass gives you three of Vermont's largest ski areas (Okemo, Mount Snow, Stowe); one of New England's best ski areas (also Stowe); and four stops in New Hampshire, three of which (Mount Sunapee, Wildcat, and Attitash), are sizeable. Crotched gives you night skiing.* Ikon Pass delivers four of New England's biggest, best, and most complete ski areas: Killington, Sugarbush, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf; as well as two of its best lift systems (Stratton and Loon – yes, I know the gondolas are terrible at both); and a sleepy bomber in Pico.* Indy Pass gives you perhaps New England's best ski area (Jay Peak); three other mountains that stack up favorably with anything on Epic or Ikon (Waterville Valley, Cannon, Saddleback); and a stack of unheralded thumpers where light crowds and great terrain collide (Black Mountain of Maine, Black Mountain NH, Magic, Bolton Valley, Berkshire East); and a bunch of family-friendly bumps (Whaleback, Dartmouth Skiway, Pats Peak, Saskadena Six, Mohawk, Catamount, Bigrock).Hit any of those circuits, and you're bound for a good winter. So why tack on an extra? Cranmore is one of the few large New England independents (along with Bretton Woods, Smugglers' Notch, Mad River Glen, Bromley), to so far decline megapass membership. That makes it a tricker sell to the rambling resort-hopper.But this is not Colorado. You can score a Cranmore lift ticket for as little as $65 on select Sundays, even in mid-winter, (including, as of this writing, the always raucous St. Patrick's Day). If you're skiing Attitash and staying in North Conway, you can roll up to Cranmore starting at 2 p.m. on Wednesday or Saturday for a $69 night-ski and some pre-dinner turns.And it's worth the visit. This is a very good ski mountain. The stats undersell the place. It skis and feels big. The fall lines are sustained and excellent. Glades are more abundant than the trailmap suggests. The grooming is outstanding. It faces south – a not unimportant feature in often-frigid New England.Even if you're megapass Bro (and who among us is not?), this one fits right into the circuit, close to Attitash, Black, Wildcat, Cannon, Loon, Waterville. It's easy to ski multiple New England mountains on a single trip, or even in a single day. The last time I skied Cranmore, I cranked through 17 high-speed laps in three hours and then bumped over to Pleasant Mountain, half an hour down the road.Podcast NotesOn Hans SchneiderHenry Dow Gibson, who New England Ski History refers to as an “international financier” founded Cranmore in 1937, but it was Austrian ski instructor Hannes Schneider who institutionalized the place. Per New England Ski History:Hannes Schneider was born on June 24, 1890 in Stuben, a small town west of Arlberg Pass in Austria. At the age of 8, Schneider started skiing on makeshift skis.While becoming a renowned skier in his teenage years, Schneider developed the Arlberg technique. The Arlberg technique quickly caught on, resulting in Schneider becoming in demand for demonstrations, films, and military training.Following Nazi Germany taking Austria in the Anschluss, Schneider was imprisoned March 12, 1938.In January of 1937, international financier Harvey Gibson purchased land on Cranmore Mountain in Conway with the aim to make North Conway a winter destination. Two years later, after lawyer Karl Rosen managed to transfer Schneider from prison to house arrest, Gibson leveraged his firm's German holdings and negotiated with Heinrich Himmler to get Schneider and his family released from Germany and transported to the United States. Following a massive welcoming party in North Conway in February of 1939, Schneider took over Cranmore and worked quickly to make it one of the best known ski areas in the country.One of Schneider's first big decisions at Cranmore was to expand lift service to the summit, which was accomplished during his first full season when the upper section of the Skimobile was installed. With top to bottom Skimobile coverage, Cranmore was second only to Cannon's tram in terms of continuous lift served vertical drop in New England.With the onset of World War II, Hannes was reportedly involved in the training and providing intelligence for United States and British ski troops. His son Herbert served in the 10th Mountain Division during World War II, earning a Bronze Star for his heroic actions in Italy. Following the war, Herbert returned to North Conway to work for his father.In 1949, Hannes Schneider was hired to oversee construction of the new Blue Hills ski area outside of Boston, Massachusetts. Schneider referred to the ski area was "Little Cranmore."In the spring of 1955, Schneider was actively working to open new terrain at Cranmore, serviced by its first chairlift. Following a day of laying out new terrain in what would become the East Bowl, Schneider died of a heart attack. Schneider's son Herbert assumed control of the Cranmore ski school and, circa 1963 started a two decade run as owner of the ski area.Schneider's name lives on at Cranmore, as a trail (Schneider in the East Bowl) and the annual Hannes Schneider Meister Cup Race.On the Fairbank GroupCranmore is owned by the Fairbank Group, whose chairman and namesake, Brian Fairbank, transformed Jiminy Peak from a Berkshires backwater into the glimmering modern heart of Massachusetts skiing. The company also operates Bromley (which is owned by Joseph O'Donnell), and owns a renewable energy operation (EOS Ventures), a ski industry e-learning platform (Bullwheel Productions), and a snowmaking outfit (Snowgun Technologies). For all this and more, including Jiminy Peak's early embrace of clean energy to power its operation, Brian Fairbank earned a spot in the Ski & Snowboard Hall of Fame in 2020. I hosted him on the podcast that autumn to discuss his career and achievements:On Booth Creek Ski HoldingsIn an alternate universe, Booth Creek may stand today on Alterra's throne, Vail's foil in the Skico Wars. For a brief period in the late ‘90s, the company, founded by former Vail and Beaver Creek owner George Gillett Jr., owned eight ski areas across the United States: Cranmore, Loon, Waterville Valley, Grand Targhee, Summit at Snoqualmie, Bear Mountain (now part of Big Bear), Northstar, and Sierra-at-Tahoe. In 1998, the company attempted to purchase Seven Springs, Pennsylvania. But, as this summary chart from New England Ski History shows, Booth Creek began selling off resorts in the early 2000s. Today, it owns only Sierra-at-Tahoe:On the SkimobileHad Cranmore's monolithic Skimobile survived to the present day, most visitors would probably mistake it for a mountain coaster. When it went live, in 1938, skiers likely mistook it for the future. “Well, by gum, a contraption that just takes you right up the mountain while you sit on your heinie. This will change skiing forever!”Instead, the Skimobile, a two-track monster that toted skiers uphill in single-passenger carts, passed five decades as a beloved novelty before Cranmore demolished it in 1990. The New England ski diaspora is still sore about this. But imagine building a Great Wall of China vertically up your mountain. It would kind of make it hard for skiers, Patrol, groomers, etc. to move around the bump. And someone came up with a better idea called a “chairlift.” When the only feasible alternative was the ropetow, the Skimobile probably seemed like the greatest invention since electricity. But once the chairlift proliferated, the shortcomings of a tracked lift became obvious.The Skimobile rose Cranmore's full 1,200 vertical feet in two sections: the lower, built in 1938, and the upper, constructed the following year. Skiers had to disembark the first to take the second. Here's how they laid out in a circa 1951 trailmap:On the potential Black Cap expansionWilcox and I discussed Cranmore's long-proposed Black Cap expansion, which would give Cranmore a several-hundred-acre, several-hundred-vertical-foot boost off the backside. New England Ski History includes the following details in its short write-up of Black Cap:In 1951, Cranmore obtained an easement on 500 acres of land on Black Cap, a ledgy peak located to the east of the ski area. If the ski area were expanded to the top of Black Cap, Cranmore would see an increase of 700 vertical feet to 1,800 feet, making it the second highest in the Mount Washington Valley.Wilcox provides slightly different numbers, but doesn't rule out the possibility of this significant expansion at some future point. The current trailmap shows Black Cap looming in the background:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 91/100 in 2023, and number 477 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #146: Great Bear, South Dakota General Manager Dan Grider

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 9, 2023 76:20

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Oct. 2. It dropped for free subscribers on Oct. 9. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoDan Grider, General Manager of Great Bear, South DakotaRecorded onSeptember 25, 2023About Great Bear Ski ValleyOwned by: The City of Sioux FallsLocated in: Sioux Falls, South DakotaYear founded: 1966Pass affiliations: NoneReciprocal partners:* 3 days at Seven Oaks* 2 days at Mont du Lac* 1 day each at Buck Hill, Powder Ridge MN, Snowstar* Discounts at several other local ski areasClosest neighboring ski areas: Mt. Crescent (2:37), Mount Kato (2:16)Base elevation: 1,352 feetSummit elevation: 1,534 feetVertical drop: 182 feetSkiable Acres: 20Average annual snowfall: 49 inchesTrail count: 15 (7 most difficult, 5 more difficult, 3 easiest)Lift count: 3 (1 fixed-grip quad, 1 ropetow, 1 carpet – view Lift Blog's inventory of Great Bear's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himFrequent Storm readers have probably started to notice the pattern: every fourth or fifth podcast swerves off Megapass Boulevard and takes four state highways, a gravel path, a Little Caesars pit-stop, and ends in the Wal-Mart-sized parking lot of a Midwest ski area. Which often sits next to a Wal-Mart. Or a car dealership. Or, in the case of Great Bear, between a construction supply depot and the Sioux Falls chapter of the Izaak Walton League, a conservation society.Why do I do this? My last three podcasts featured the leaders of Killington, Keystone, and Snowbird. The next one to drop into your inbox will be Northstar, a Vail Resorts staple that is the ninth-largest ski area in America. If you're reading this newsletter, there is a high probability that you either already have skied all four of those, or plan to at some future point. Most of you will probably never ski Great Bear or anywhere else in South Dakota. Many of you will never ski the Midwest at all.Which I understand. But there are several reasons I've worked Midwest ski areas into the podcast rotation, and why I will continue to do so for as long as The Storm exists:* The episodes with the leaders of Caberfae, Boyne Mountain, The Highlands, and Nub's Nob are for 18-year-old me. Or whatever version of 18-year-old me currently sits restlessly in the ski-mad but ignored flatlands between Ohio and the Dakotas. I devoured every ski magazine on the drugstore shelves of the 1990s, but if I could scrub 500 words of Midwest content from their combined catalogue each winter, I was lucky. I was dying – dying – for someone, anyone, to say something, anything, about the Midwest or Midwest skiing. Even a list of the top 10 ski areas in Michigan, with 50 words on each, would have made my year. But the ski mags, great as they were in those days, barely covered the rich and varied ski culture of New England, let alone the Midwest. I would have lost my goddamn mind had someone published a 90-minute conversation with the owner of the mysterious (to me at the time) Caberfae, with its hills upon hills of abandoned lifts and ever-changing footprint. * The Midwest is home to one of the world's great ski cultures. If you don't believe me, go ski there. The region hosts 122 ski areas across 10 states, most of them in Michigan (43), Wisconsin (33), and Minnesota (21). But the volume matters less than the attitude: Midwest skiers are absolutely unpretentious. They'll ski in hunting gear and Carhartts. They'll ski on 25-year-old sticks they found at a yard sale for five dollars. They'll ski when it's 25 below zero. They'll ski at night, in the rain, on a 200-vertical-foot bump running 60-year-old chairlifts. These are skiers, Man. They do it because it's fun, because it's right there, and because this is one of the few regions where skiing is still accessible to the masses. If you want to understand why every third Colorado liftie you meet is from Grand Rapids or Madison or Duluth, go ski Canonsburg or Cascade or Spirit Mountain. It will make sense in about five seconds.* Because the Midwest has so many owner-operators, and because it takes a certain sort of swaggering competence to run something as temperamental and wild as a 300-vertical-foot, city-adjacent ski area with 17 chairlifts all built before the Reagan Administration, these tend to be very good interviews. The top five most-downloaded Storm Skiing Podcasts of 2023 are Alterra CEO Jared Smith, Holiday Valley President Dennis Eshbaugh, Pacific Group Resorts CMO Christian Knapp, Indy Pass President Doug Fish, and Whitecap Mountains owner David Dziuban. Those first four are fairly predictable (Holiday Valley is a bit of an outlier, as the resort heavily shared the conversation), but the last one is remarkable. Both because only five people have actually skied at Whitecap, and because the 33 podcasts that I've pushed out this year include many prominent and popular megapass headliners with well-known and highly respected leaders. Why did the Whitecap podcast land so hard? I can't say for certain, but I suspect because it is completely raw, completely authentic, and absolutely unconcerned with what anyone will think or how they will react to it. Dziuban, an industry veteran on a mission to salvage a dying business from the scrapyard, has no boss, nothing to lose, and no one to impress. It's an incredible conversation (listen for yourself). And while Dziuban is a special character, bolstered by a fearless Chicago moxie and the accent to match, every single guest I have on from the Midwest brings some version of that no-b******t attitude. It's fun.* I'm from there. I grew up in Michigan. Many of my best friends still live there. I return frequently, hold Michigan football season tickets, camp in the UP every April, still rock the Old English “D” ballcap. I moved to the East Coast in 2002, but the longer I'm gone, the more I admire the region's matter-of-fact work ethic, the down-to-earth worldview, the way Midwesterners simplify the complicated (next time you ride a chairlift with a Michigander at Keystone or Breckenridge, ask them how they got to Colorado – there's a better than 50 percent chance that they drove). Midwest skiing is the reason I love skiing, and I will always be grateful for these hills, no matter how small they are. Plus, I gotta represent.So, there you go. Skip this ep if you want. But you shouldn't, because it's very good.What we talked aboutGreat Bear's record-shattering 2022-23 ski season for skier visits; how the ski area has been able to recruit and retain staff in a difficult labor market; staying open into April; the importance of Christmas Week; memorializing Roxie Johnson; Great Bear in the 1970s; the quirks of running a city-owned ski area; the appeal of working at a small ski area for decades; what it means to a flatland city to have a ski area; the best age to make skiers; “if you can sit, you can tube”; “The nice thing about our profitability is that there's no owner here, so our money just stays in the bank”; contemplating a new chalet; the location, size, and timeline for Great Bear's potential expansion; the glacial phenomenon that left Great Bear in its wake; reflecting on the Covid season; what it means for a small municipal Midwestern ski area to put in a brand-new chairlift; why the outgoing Borvig quad had to go, even though it was “a tank”; the brilliance and cost-effectiveness of high-speed ropetows; scarves and ropetows don't mix; the story behind the “Children's Dental Center Beginner Area”; the power of tubing; Keeping season pass and lift ticket prices low; the story behind the season passholders-only timeslot on Sunday; holding strong on wicket tickets; free buddy tickets for passholders; Flurry the mascot; and the Indy Pass.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewLike many small ski areas, Great Bear publishes a periodic newsletter to complement its social media presence. I subscribe to as many of these email digests as I am aware of, as they often contain nuggets that larger resorts would celebrate with a big campaign and press release. Great Bear's April newsletter hooked me with this:We are excited to finally start sharing with you our plans for future expansion! Efforts to expand have been in the works since 2013. Our top priority is adding another 7-acres of skiable downhill terrain with a second chairlift. Additionally, we are working on plans to significantly expand the lodge.As a city park, our next step is presenting a detailed plan to the Parks Board next month. We appreciate all your enthusiasm for a bigger and better Great Bear. Projects of this size take an enormous amount of work and collaboration. We are so grateful for our partnership with the City of Sioux Falls and all the community support!An expansion project at a municipal ski area marooned in a state with a population of fewer than 900,000 people is a big deal. It means the place is well-run and well-cared-for, and most likely a community staple worthy of some national attention. The fact that Great Bear was served not by a collection of ropetows and a 60-year-old Hall double, but by a carpet and a brand-new Skytrac quad, complemented with a high-speed Park Brah ropetow, were further evidence of a highly capable management team.Intrigued, I reached out. It took a minute, but we set up the podcast with Grider, who's been running the bump since 1992. He's a great storyteller with an upbeat disposition and a good mind for business, and he convincingly lays out a long-term future for Great Bear that will ensure the mountain's status as a skier assembly line for many generations to come. If you love skiing, you'll enjoy this one.Questions I wish I'd askedI'd meant to ask about this “I Ski 182 Vert Campaign,” which profiles locals who have put Great Bear at the center of their recreational lives:Why you should ski Great BearThere are different ways to think about yourself as a skier. One is as a sort of progressionist. Like a student working their way through school, you graduate from one grade to the next. Always forward, never back. So a Jersey kid may learn at Campgaw as a 6-year-old, join after-school ski bus trips to Mountain Creek in junior high, take weekend trips to Mount Snow in high school, and spend college spring breaks at Palisades Tahoe. But by the time he moves to the Upper East Side and has two kids of his own, he only skis on his annual trips to Deer Valley. He sits on his laptop in the lodge as the kids run beginner-chair laps at Thunder Ridge. He's not going to bother with this little stuff – he's graduated.But this is a strange way to think about skiing. We don't apply such logic to other facets of our lives. Consider food – sometimes you have the inch-thick porterhouse on a special-occasion outing, sometimes you have Taco Bell, and sometimes you eat Pop-Tarts on your drive to work. But I don't know anyone who, once they've dined at Peter Luger, never deigns to eat a hotdog again. Sometimes you just need to fuel up.I approach skiing in the same way. A dozen or so days per season, I'm eating steak: Snowbird or Big Sky or Vail or Heavenly. But since I'm not content to ski 12 days per winter, I also eat a lot of pasta. Let's call that New England and the Catskills on their best days, or just about anyplace with fresh snow. And I snack a lot, skiing's equivalent of a bag of Doritos: a half-open Poconos bump, a couple hours on a Sunday morning at Mountain Creek, a Michigan T-bar when I'm visiting family for Christmas. My 6-year-old son is in a seasonal program at 250-vertical-foot Mt. Peter in New York. The vast majority of the parents sit in the lodge on their phones while the kids ski. But I ski, lapping the Ol' Pete double chair, which accesses the whole mountain and rarely has a line. When his lesson is over, we often ski together. It's fun.Everyone funnels the joys of skiing through different lenses. The lift or the freefall, the high-altitude drama, the après electricity of crowded places and alcohol. For me, the draw is a combination of dynamic movement and novelty, an exploration of new places, or familiar places under the changing conditions wrought by weather and crowds. Even though Mt. Peter is familiar, it's a little different place every week.Which takes us to Great Bear, a 182-foot bump that is, most likely, nowhere near you. I'm not suggesting you cancel your Tahoe reservations and book yourself into the Sioux Falls Best Western. But there are two groups of skiers who ought to consider this place: locals, and cross-country road-trippers.If you live in Sioux Falls and are over the age of 16, you probably consider yourself a progressionist. Maybe you learned to ski at Great Bear, but now it's too small for you to bother with. You'll ski your five days per year at Copper Mountain and be content with it. But why? You have a ski area right there. The season pass is $265. Why ski five days per year when you can ski 25? With that Great Bear season pass, you can ski every Saturday morning and two nights a week after work. Consider it your gym. The runs are short, but the sensation of dynamic movement is still there. It's skiing. And while it's (typically) a materially a worse form of skiing than your high-altitude Colorado version of the sport, it's also in many ways better, with less attitude, less pretense, less entitlement, less ego. Just kids having fun. It's fulfilling in a different way.The second group is those of us who live east of America's best versions of skiing. Most East Coast skiers will fly west, but the most adventurous will drive. You see them on Facebook, posting elaborate three- or six-week Google maps dotted all over the west. But why wait until you arrive in Colorado or Wyoming or Montana to start skiing? There are ski areas all along your route. Great Bear sits two miles from Interstate 90, the 3,021-mile-long route that runs from Boston to Seattle. So why not scoot through Kissing Bridge, Buffalo Ski Center, and Peek'N Peak, New York; Alpine Valley, Boston Mills, and Brandywine in Ohio; Swiss Valley, Michigan; Four Lakes and Villa Olivia, Illinois; and Cascade, Devil's Head, and LaCrosse, Wisconsin en route? Yes, you want to hurry west. But the drive will take several days no matter what. Why not mix in a little novelty along the way?My first trip west was over Christmas break in the mid-90s, a 22-hour bender from Michigan to Summit County, Colorado with my buddy Andy. We'd booked a Super 8 or some similar thing in Lincoln, Nebraska, at our approximate halfway point. We rode into Nebraska sometime after dark, but early enough for a night session at Nebraski, a run-down hundred-footer between Omaha and Lincoln. The chairlift coughed up the bump like a cartoon contraption and skiers yard-saled all over the hill and it was just about the most amazing scene you could imagine. Four days later a two-footer hammered Copper, dropping an exclamation-point powder day onto our first Rocky Mountain adventure. Nearly three decades later, when we reminisce on that trip, we talk about that Copper pow day, but long-gone Nebraski (I don't think the place made it out of the ‘90s alive), is an equal part of the legend.A Great Bear stop would be a little different, of course. This is a modern ski area, with a 2021 Skytrac quad and modern snowmaking and solid financial backing. It will make you feel good about skiing and about its future. It may even be a highlight of your trip.Podcast NotesOn the remoteness of Great BearIt is impossible to overstate how important Great Bear is to curating skiers among the 300,000-ish residents of greater Sioux Falls. There are two other ski areas in South Dakota – Terry Peak and resurgent, probably semi-private Deer Mountain – but they sit nearly six hours west, in the Black Hills. Mt. Crescent, Iowa, sits two-and-a-half hours down I-29. Mt. Kato, Minnesota is two hours east. And that's about it. If you're a teenager in Sioux Falls without Great Bear, you may as well be a teenager in Fort Lauderdale. You're probably never going to ski.That wasn't always true. A 175-vertical-foot (at most) bump with the amazing name of Hole In The Mountain once operated with up to three ropetows near Lake Benton, an hour north, according to the Midwest Lost Ski Areas Project. But that's been gone for decades. On Great Bear's potential expansionGreat Bear is in the process of a sizeable expansion, which could add a second chairlift and several more trails. Great Bear provided this preliminary map, which shows a new lift sitting adjacent to the learning area and a new entrance road and chalet:On the outcome of the Sept. 25 masterplan meetingGrider referenced a meeting he had coming up “later this week,” which means last week, since we recorded this on Sept. 25. I followed up on Sunday to see if the meeting had thrown any landmines in the way of Great Bear's potential expansion. It had not. The reception from local officials had been optimistic and enthusiastic, Grider said.“What we've got to do here in the next six weeks is they're going to formalize the plans and we'll get some drawings, we'll get a rendering,” Grider told me. “Then we go in front of the park board and we just keep our foot on the gas pedal.”On the stem in the middle of Great Bear's old Borvig chairGreat Bear's spanking-new Skytrac replaced a gorgeous but problematic Borvig centerpole quad. Luckily, Lift Blog documented the old lift before the ski area demolished it.On high-speed ropetows and Hyland HillsI remain obsessed with high-speed ropetows as the ultimate solution to terrain park-driven congestion. They're fast, they're cheap, and they tamp down liftlines by drawing Parkbrahs away from the workhorse chairlifts. Here's one I documented at Spirit Mountain, Minnesota last season:And here's one at Hyland Hills, which Grider mentions:On me not knowing who Mary Hart isAt one point in the podcast, Dan Grider asked me if I knew who Mary Hart was. I said I did not, which was true. It turns out that she is quite famous. She was Miss South Dakota 1970 and hosted a show called Entertainment Tonight for 29 years. I have never watched that show, nor was I aware of its existence until I looked up Ms. Hart on Wikipedia.This probably sounds dubious to you. But there is something wrong with my brain. I simply do not process information having to do with pop culture or celebrities. I say this not out of proud ignorance, but as a matter of observable fact. I have always been this way. Hit me with a well-known movie quote, and I will stare at you as though you just spoke to me in Elvish.An anecdote to illustrate the larger void in which I exist: my wife and I began watching a show called Suits the other day. She asked me if I recognized the young woman who plays a paralegal on this show. I said no. She asked if I knew who Meghan Markle was. I said no. She asked if I knew who Prince [can't remember the name] was. I said no. Because apparently they're married. And that matters somehow. Though I'm not exactly sure why. Though I am curious why we still have princes in this world, because I thought we got rid of them when we exiled the dragons back in like 1502 or whenever.We all have gaps, right? Or shortcomings. One of mine, and there are many, is aggressive indifference to things that I find boring. It's probably how some of you feel when I write about skiing in Ohio. Like, Man, get me to the next thing.On charging the same for kids as adultsMost ski areas kick you a discount for a kids' lift ticket. And why not? Expenses add up for a family, and when you start multiplying everything by three or four, you get to a scary price range pretty quickly. So some of you may have been surprised when Grider mentions, during our interview, that Great Bear doesn't offer discounted lift tickets for kids.There's a simple reason for that. A discounted kids ticket doesn't do much for you when most of your clientele is children. Great Bear is one of our skier factories, where busloads of kids prime themselves for roadtrips to Colorado 10 years from now. So the parents don't need the incentive – they're just signing the waiver to get the kid on the ski bus.Plenty of ski areas follow a similar model. Mount Peter, where my 6-year-old participates in a seasonal program, is currently selling adult season passes for $499, and kids' passes for $479. Nearby Campgaw posts similar rates: $389 for adults, $359 for kids. But it makes sense to minimize the discount: both are 300-ish-foot bumps that are dwarfed by nearby Mountain Creek, a thousand-footer with a killer terrain park and high-speed lifts (and, incidentally, a less-expensive season pass). They can't compete from a terrain point of view, but they can offer something that Creek can't: an unintimidating atmosphere to learn in. And the skiers who mostly need such a thing is kids. And if Mt. Peter and Campgaw discount kids too much, their whole model falls apart.In the case of Great Bear, well, the season pass is currently $265. This winter's lift ticket price will be $38. So, really, who cares?On Flurry the MascotIf your ski area doesn't have a mascot, it should:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 81/100 in 2023, and number 467 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #143: Killington & Pico President & General Manager Mike Solimano

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 14, 2023 85:36

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Sept. 7. It dropped for free subscribers on Sept. 14. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe for free below:WhoMike Solimano, President and General Manager of Killington and Pico Mountains, VermontRecorded onSept. 5, 2023About KillingtonClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Powdr CorpLocated in: Killington, VermontYear founded: 1958Pass affiliations: Ikon Pass: 5 or 7 combined days with PicoReciprocal partners: Pico access is included on all Killington passesClosest neighboring ski areas: Pico (:12), Saskadena Six (:39), Okemo (:40), Twin Farms (:42), Quechee (:44), Ascutney (:55), Storrs (:59), Harrington Hill (:59), Magic (1:00), Whaleback (1:02), Sugarbush (1:04), Bromley (1:04), Middlebury Snowbowl (1:08), Arrowhead (1:10), Mad River Glen (1:11)Base elevation: 1,156 feet at Skyeship BaseSummit elevation: 4,241 feet at Killington PeakVertical drop: 3,085 feetSkiable Acres: 1,509Average annual snowfall: 250 inchesTrail count: 155 (43% advanced/expert, 40% intermediate, 17% beginner)Lift count: 20 (2 gondolas, 1 six-pack, 5 high-speed quads, 5 fixed-grip quads, 2 triples, 1 double, 1 platter, 3 carpets - view Lift Blog's inventory of Killington's lift fleet)About PicoClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Powdr CorpLocated in: Mendon, VermontYear founded: 1934Pass affiliations: Ikon Pass: 5 or 7 combined days with KillingtonReciprocal partners: Pico access is included on all Killington passes; four days Killington access included on Pico K.A. PassClosest neighboring ski areas: Killington (:12), Saskadena Six (:38), Okemo (:38), Twin Farms (:38), Quechee (:42), Ascutney (:53), Storrs (:57), Harrington Hill (:55), Magic (:58), Whaleback (1:00), Sugarbush (1:01), Bromley (1:00), Middlebury Snowbowl (1:01), Mad River Glen (1:07), Arrowhead (1:09)Base elevation: 2,000 feetSummit elevation: 3,967 feetVertical drop: 1,967 feetSkiable Acres: 468Average annual snowfall: 250 inchesTrail count: 58 (36% advanced/expert, 46% intermediate, 18% beginner)Lift count: 7 (2 high-speed quads, 2 triples, 2 doubles, 1 carpet - view Lift Blog's inventory of Pico's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himImagine if the statistical bureaus of nations operated like ski areas - the countries just threw around numbers with no basis in measurable reality. China could say it was bigger than Russia, U.S. America could claim more territory than Canada, and North Korea could say it was bigger than all of them combined (hell, it probably does).This is the world one steps into when trying to ascertain the size of New England ski areas. Mt. Abram claims 450 acres. Middlebury Snow Bowl brags on “600-plus acres of woods and glades,” which would make it larger than Sugarbush, the Alterra-owned mega-resort that undersells itself with a 581-acre tally. Here's what the aliens would see if they were to match our internet boasts up to measurable reality:Did Middlebury Snowbowl acquire the air rights over its mountain? Is Mt. Abram built like Istanbul, with several ancient ski areas buried beneath the modern foundation, giving us a vast ski labyrinth to explore?This strategy probably worked better when most skiers' mode of resort comparison was “scanning a bunch of brochures at a rest area.” It's harder to maintain when every human carries a device equipped with a map of planet earth in their pocket at all times. But ski areas keep fibbing anyway.Which is probably why, several years ago, Killington started measuring itself like a Western ski area: draw a border around the property – that's your skiable terrain. Oh, and we'll no longer yell at you for skiing in the woods, which is technically “terrain” even if the underbrush is too thick for anything larger than a chipmunk to navigate.Some of you would like me to challenge statistical inconsistency across the ski industry as a main feature of this newsletter. But I prefer to just make fun of it. If Mt. Abram wants to be the Baghdad Bob of New England skiing, well, what else are you going to do for attention when you're across the street from Sunday River, whose annual lift-upgrade budget exceeds the GDP of Australia?But until the North Conway Treaty of 2038, at which the ski areas of North America will collectively agree upon a universal statistical standard based upon actual measurements, I'm just going to take their word for it (sort of). Here's a list of New England ski areas from largest to smallest, by skiable acreage, according to the ski resort's own claims (I excluded Middlebury Snowbowl and Mt. Abram, which more accurately measure out at 110 and 170 acres, respectively):Anyone who's spent any amount of time skiing New England knows that something feels off with this list. Sugarbush, Stowe, and Jay – three of the dozen or so New England ski areas with reliable glades – ski as big as anything in the East. All three feel substantively larger than Stratton or Mount Snow. And neither Bolton Valley nor Black Mountain of Maine ski on the scale of Cannon or Waterville Valley.But no one is disputing that top line. Killington is the largest ski area in New England. You can quibble about the vertical drop – the gut of Killington is the 1,650-ish-foot K-1 face. To scoop up the full 3,000-plus feet requires a rarely-skied meander down to the Skyeship Base at US 4. Mt. Ellen at Sugarbush (2,600 vertical feet), Madonna at Smuggs (2,150), FourRunner at Stowe (2,046), the single chair at Mad River Glen (1,972 feet), and Sugarloaf's spectacular 2,820-foot face all deliver more sustained steep skiing than The Beast.But there's nothing else in the East on Killington's scale, the massive overlapping network of six peaks rolling in all directions from the frantic hub. It's one of the few ski areas, East or West, where I ever truly feel lost. There's something brilliantly scattershot about it, something feral and boundless and enigmatic, as though 16 small ski areas had been stapled together by someone who's never skied. There are insane traverses and endless flats, riotously steep trees and bumps all over, long groomers that you think lead back to the same lift you just exited, but instead seem to deposit you in New Hampshire. There are trails on the far fringe that feel abandoned on even the busiest days, where you suspect without being able to prove it that you've been transported to an alternate dimension of groomed forever-down, or at least back to a time before the Ikon Pass gave every skier on the eastern seaboard an annual allotment of Killington lift tickets.It all works somehow. This great machine, howling like an armor-plated Mad Max rig, a cobbled-together war machine screaming across the winter plains. It feels like it should fall apart, disintegrate by the combined forces of speed and volume. But it carries on, the growling, supercharged id of New England winter, The Beast a gloss well-earned.What we talked aboutWhat's behind Killington's run of June closings; building the Superstar Glacier; why “The Beast” returned; how Killington pulled off the 2022 World Cup with a wildly warm November; what happened to October openings; early- versus late-season energy; whether social media makes the spring skiing party seem bigger than it is; Pico's massive, multi-year snowmaking evolution; “Pico's probably not worth what one detachable lift costs on its own” – the hard math of lift upgrades; Powdr Corp's long-term commitment to Pico; Pico's private mid-week mountain rentals; the new K-1 lodge; falling in love with skiing on a Magic Mountain powder day; when you start as chief financial officer and the parent company informs you that they may not be able to make payroll the following month; Killington's rowdy transition from American Skiing Company to Powdr Corp to present-day calm; why Powdr Corp had such a tough time adapting to New England, and how the company finally did; online absurdities; the evolution of Powdr Corp; a Killington base village, on the way at last; why the village took so long to permit; “to be a successful village, it can't just be a bunch of condos”; putting pedestrians first; what the village will mean for parking at Ramshead, Snowshed, Vale, and K-1; employee housing; how the village will connect to the resort's lift system; whether we could see a lift from the village up to K-1; why Killington hasn't upgraded Snowshed yet; redesigning Killington Road; fixing Killington's water-quality issues; considering mass transit along Killington Road; priorities for lift upgrades at both ski areas; where Killington could install another six-pack; whether future sixers would have bubbles or D-line tech; why eight-pack lifts are unlikely; the potential for upgrades for the Bear Mountain quad and Snowden triple; what could eventually replace Outpost at Pico; current thinking around the Killington-Pico Interconnect; Fast Tracks two years in; Fast Tracks season passes; the Beast 365 and Ikon Base Pass add-on; and whether Beast 365 passholders are complaining about the dilution of the Ikon Base Pass (spoiler alert: they are).Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewStorm Skiing Podcast #1: Killington & Pico President & General Manager Mike Solimano, was not the first episode I ever recorded, but it was the first one I released. Because, as I wrote at the time, “if you're going to start something like a podcast about Northeast skiing, you really ought to lead off with the most punch-you-in-your-face prominent part of Northeast skiing.” Starting this series with the head of the largest and baddest ski resort in New England injected The Storm with an instant patina of legitimacy, a forked road into journalism from the speculating, self-assured masses endlessly debating ski areas on social media.There are hazards, of course, to going first, especially for a rapidly evolving brand like The Storm. A lot has changed in four years. The podcast sounds better. The Storm's scope has expanded nationwide, embedding each subject in a national, rather than a regional, context. The article accompanying each episode is far richer, with maps and stats and charts that the reader once had to source on their own. And I hope – I'll let the listener decide – that I've improved as an interviewer and as a host.It was time to reset Killington and Pico. But with purpose. My mission, at The Storm's outset four years ago, was simply to make connections with ski area leaders. The podcast episodes were more general-information sessions than conversations tuned to the moment. But almost every podcast on the current schedule is pegged to some tangible development: Keystone (scheduled for the week of Sept. 11), is opening the Bergman Bowl expansion after a one-year delay; Snowbird (Sept. 18), is a big player in the controversial Little Cottonwood Canyon gondola project; Attitash (Nov. 6), is at long last replacing the Summit Triple with a high-speed quad. Even Great Bear, South Dakota – scheduled for the week of Sept. 25 – is planning a new lift and expansion.Killington just announced what is potentially the most transformative project in New England skiing for at least a generation: the approval to build, at long last, a (hopefully pedestrian) base village in the vast basin between Snowshed and Ramshead, a space currently occupied by parking lots sizeable enough to house the population of Ecuador. The East does not currently have anything like this – at least not at the foot of a ski area, where such things ought to be. But the region desperately needs this sort of human-scaled infrastructure.I live in New York City, which means I am surrounded by acquaintances who have the means and desire to ski, but who do not necessarily ski that often. They will frequently petition me for recommendations that sound something like: where can I take my family/group of friends/brunch club skiing for a long weekend that is within driving distance of the city, has somewhere to stay on the mountain, and has food/drinking options within a short walk? And my answer to them is: there is nothing like that here. Go to Park City/Breckenridge/Aspen/somewhere else out West. New England is so preoccupied with preserving their natural environment that most meaningful development is done a several-mile drive from the major ski hills, which of course compromises the natural environment with sprawl, excessive traffic, and parking lots the size of the Mendenhall Glacier.There are some minor exceptions to this: small villages at Stratton and Stowe. Ample slopeside accommodations at Smugglers' Notch and Okemo. But none of these give the skier that sense of place they'll find in Steamboat or Crested Butte or even Vail Village, with its pedestrian walkways paved over what had been wilderness until the 1960s. But who says a new village is a “fake” village, as they're so often framed? A place for people to gather is a place for people to gather, and if we could build such places 2,000 years ago, we can build them today.New England deserves this. Because great ski areas are better when the community doesn't end at the bottom of the lift queue. Because once we build one, others will follow. Because it's a fairly stupid fact that the region of the United States most known for its quaint small towns is without a single quaint ski town (meaning, one that backs up to the ski resort). Because Built America has sprawled out enough, and its time to back up and fill in all the blank space with something better. Because there is no better way for a state preoccupied with preserving its natural environment to build than in dense clusters of life and activity. And because it would be fabulous and because it would work and because I'm tired of telling New Yorkers to fly to Aspen when Killington ought to be able to give them everything they need.Questions I wish I'd askedI wanted to talk a bit about the Woodward park that Powdr has been dropping at Killington each of the past several winters. I also had a few questions about passes: the Pico K.A.'s odd name, the creeping price of the Killington spring pass, whether the Mountain Collective was in play for Killington.What I got wrongAbout the size of PicoI said Pico was about “the size of Cannon or the size of Waterville Valley.” This is kind of true but was also an on-the-fly guess. As is clear from the skiable acreage discussion above, gauging the size of New England ski areas is a little bit of a party game. I think Pico and Waterville are about the same size, but Pico, mimicking Killington's border-to-border measurement philosophy, claims 468 acres. Waterville, which, according to general manager Tim Smith, only counts trail acreage, sits at 265 acres. But both hit right around 2,000 feet of vert. Cannon is a bit higher, at 2,180. Still, I think it was a fair comparison. Here are New England's tallest ski areas, organized by vertical drop:About resumesI said in the intro that Solimano had joined Killington in 2002. He actually started in December 2001, as he clarifies in the interview.About the Ikon Base PassWhen discussing the erosion of the Ikon Base Pass over time, I said that “Alterra had taken mountains off” the pass. That wasn't exactly right or fair. Former Alterra CEO Rusty Gregory told me on the podcast last year that Alterra resisted creating the Plus tier for Ikon Base. But Jackson Hole and Aspen, facing locals' revolts over the pass' impact, insisted on doing something. The Ikon Base Plus, then, was a compromise. Other ski areas have followed since the Base Plus debuted in 2020: Alta and Deer Valley (the latter of which Alterra does own) in 2022, and Taos in 2023. Snowbasin and Sun Valley opted for Base Plus over Base when they joined the coalition in 2022.Still, however we got here, the fact is this: the Ikon Base Pass excludes seven of the pass' most attractive destinations. Unfortunately, passholders at partner resorts that offer an Ikon Base Pass with their top-tier season passes (Sugarloaf, Sunday River, Loon, Killington, Windham, Aspen, Big Sky, Taos [sold out], Alta, Snowbasin, Snowbird, Brighton, Jackson Hole [sold out], Sun Valley, Mt. Bachelor, Boyne Mountain), are not able to upgrade to an Ikon Base Plus or full Ikon Pass. Several leaders of the above-mentioned mountains have confirmed to The Storm that their passholders find this annoying, like getting a year of free Domino's but being told that you can only order salad and sandwiches. No pizza for you. Alta is the pizza on the Ikon Pass. Jackson Hole is pizza. Aspen is pizza. Blue Mountain is a Chicken Ceasar salad. It's nice. It tastes fine. But really everyone wants the pizza.Here's that chart again tracking Ikon Pass partners by tier over time:Why you should ski Killington and PicoOne reason to ski Killington is easy: often, it's your only option. The mountain closed June 1 this year, more than a month after every other resort in the region other than Jay and Sugarbush, which both ran to May 7. On the other end, The Beast has somewhat ceded its rush to open. After six October openings in the eight seasons beginning in 2011, Killington hasn't spun the lifts before Halloween since 2018 (warm falls and Covid haven't helped). But they're rarely beaten to go-live in New England, and seasons that push or exceed 200 days make sure the mountain's expensive season pass is worth it.Pico is funny. If it were anywhere else other than exactly next door to the largest ski area in New England, Pico might be a major ski area. Its 468 acres would make it the largest ski area in New Hampshire. A 2,000-foot vertical drop is impressive anywhere. The mountain has two high-speed lifts. And, by the way, knockout terrain. There is only one place in the Killington complex where you can run 2,000 vertical feet of steep terrain: Pico.The American norm is that skier visits move east-to-west. But I'll get an occasional email from a Rocky Mountain dweller who's visiting family out east, and they want to know where to ski. There are 100 ski areas in New England – more than in Colorado (34), California (30), Utah (18), and Montana (16) combined. How do you sort through all that? If you want my recommendations of what to do with a week, I'd tell you to start with Killington, then move north through Sugarbush, Mad River Glen, Stowe, Smugglers' Notch, and Jay Peak. Then cross the top of New England to Sugarloaf. That's the best of what we've got. But The Beast, the king of them all, is Killington.Podcast NotesMiscellany on items discussed in the podcast:On Killington's historic opening and closing datesKillington has done a nice job documenting these on its website:On the history of the Women's World Cup at KillingtonSince 2016, Killington has acted as the early-season U.S. stop on the Women's World Cup, drawing enormous, raucous crowds. While I don't cover ski racing or competition, I acknowledge the importance of this event to Killington, as an ancillary business, as a celebration of the sport, as a cultural token, and as a showcase of the resort's singular snowmaking firepower. You can sign up for Killington's World Cup updates here.On North Ridge early-season skiingEarly-season skiing at Killington is a novel, inventive, highly orchestrated event. Typically, only three runs are open, and they are lodged on an area called North Ridge near the top of Killington Peak. Skiers park in the K-1 lot, ride the K-1 gondola over brown slopes to the summit, walk across a catwalk (and its many, many steps), and arrive in winter: typically the Rime, Reasons, and East Fall trails, snowy and frantic with fellow early-season lunatics. The concentration of very good skiers tends to be quite amazing, as the Park Brahs are Parking Out Brah – with whatever little knoll they can turn into a feature (plus, usually, a few built on Reason by Killington's parks crew). You lap North Ridge Quad for as long as you can tolerate, but you can't ski back down – there's no snow below East Fall. So you have to hike back up the catwalk, back to K-1, and ride the gondy back down to the parking lot. Here's a diagram:It's less about the skiing, frankly, than about being a part of something unique and joyful. The skiing, however, is sometimes quite good, especially if it's cold enough to leave the snowguns running, refreshing the surface all day long.On Pico's lift fleetPico has one of the oldest lift fleets in New England – the last new lift install was 35 years ago. Strangely, the mountain also has two high-speed quads, both the (historically) problematic Yan detachables (read more on that in the Podcast Notes section here). But, for reasons Solimano details in the podcast, new lifts are unlikely anytime soon. Pico's current state, per Lift Blog:On Powdr Corp's portfolioKillington is one of 10 North American ski areas owned by Park City-based Powdr Corp:On the lawsuit around lifetime season passesWhen Powdr Corp purchased Killington in 2007, the company inherited the largest ski area in New England – and a gigantic anchor in the form of 1,243 “lifetime” season passes distributed by a former owner. Powdr said, “Yeah we're not doing that,” the passholders sued, and Powdr ultimately won. A 2010 synopsis from Legal Blog Watch:Twenty years ago, Killington, Vt., resident Martin Post and his wife, Jill, paid about $3,500 each for lifetime ski passes at Killington Resort. The Posts are happily still alive but, as of May 17, 2010, their passes are not.The Times Argus reports that in May, U.S. Judge Christina Reiss found that the resort's current owners, SP Land Co. and Powdr Corp., which purchased Killington Resort in 2007, were under no legal obligation to honor the passes that were sold in the early years of the ski area as an incentive to attract investors.The class action litigation before Judge Reiss involved 1,243 pass holders -- 342 yearly transferable passes and 901 passes that could be transferred a single time. The plaintiffs alleged that under the wording of the investor passes, the holder is entitled "to the free use of all ski lifts operated by (Sherburne) Killington Ltd. at (Killington Basin) Killington Ski Area so long as the corporation shall operate in that area under an agreement with the state of Vermont." Plaintiffs claimed that the reference to "the corporation" meant any subsequent operator of the ski area, including the new owners, but the court disagreed.Judge Reiss granted the defendants' motion for summary judgment, finding that "the only reasonable interpretation of that language is that it requires Killington Ltd. to provide the designated passholder free use of all ski lifts operated by Killington Ltd. at the Killington Ski Area so long as it operates in that area ... "The term corporation, she wrote, "clearly refers to the named corporations, Sherburne and Killington Ltd." and "reveals no intention to bind Killington Ltd's successors ... To the contrary, Killington Ltd.'s obligations under the passes clearly terminate with its cessation of operations in the area."The plaintiffs have appealed Reiss' decision to the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.I'm assuming the plaintiffs lost the appeal, but I can't find any record of it.On New England's 100 ski areasHere's the inventory - collect them all! (let me know if you have):The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 74/100 in 2023, and number 460 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

covid-19 united states america women american california canada halloween president new york city australia starting china magic west colorado russia western north america bachelor utah east beast world cup mt maine new england montana falling in love general managers base new hampshire vermont north american lift north korea ecuador reason south dakota northeast brighton istanbul gdp mad max domino appeals rocky mountains edward snowden new yorkers pico woodward vt keystone jackson hole park city outpost strangely yan notch arrowhead circuit court big sky mendon loon stratton rime skiers smugglers northridge steamboats taos plaintiffs reiss stowe bromley snowbirds tim smith sun valley black mountain windham ample magic mountain storrs blue mountain waterville crested butte sugarloaf podcast notes killington bear mountain deer valley little cottonwood canyon alterra sunday river snowbasin jay peak solimano waterville valley okemo mount snow mad river glen ramshead

Podcast #141: Mount Snow General Manager Brian Suhadolc

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 14, 2023 61:46

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on August 11. It dropped for free subscribers on August 14. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe for free below:WhoBrian Suhadolc, General Manager of Mount Snow, VermontRecorded onJuly 17, 2023About Mount SnowClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Dover, VermontYear founded: 1954Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass and Epic Local Pass: Unlimited access* Epic Northeast Value Pass: Unlimited access with holiday blackouts* Epic Northeast Midweek Pass: Unlimited access with weekend and holiday blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: Hermitage Club (9 minutes), Stratton (23 minutes), Bromley (36 minutes), Magic Mountain (39 minutes)Base elevation: 1,900 feetSummit elevation: 3,600 feetVertical drop: 1,700 feetSkiable Acres: 601Average annual snowfall: 150 inchesTrail count: 80 (15% advanced/expert, 70% intermediate, 15% beginner)Lift count: 19 (2 six-packs, 4 high-speed quads, 5 triples, 2 doubles, 1 ropetow, 5 magic carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Mount Snow's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himThis is my second podcast focused on Mount Snow. The first episode featured then-GM Tracy Bartels, in November 2020. Our focus then was Covid: as in, what the hell were we going to do about it? The ski industry had spent eight months from the March shutdowns preparing for a masked world of closed ski bars and social distancing. Was this actually going to work?It did, of course. Sort of. But that podcast from 2020 has little to do with the Mount Snow of 2023, which has evolved substantially in just three years. It was time for an update.I'm also owning the fact that I overcorrected when I took The Storm national in 2021. In the pod's first two years, I'd interviewed the heads of most of New England's largest ski areas. Check, check, check. Done. I needed to establish this thing in the Rockies, the Cascades, the Sierras, the Wasatch. And I did. But a lot of my New England listeners felt snubbed. I'd built this thing on their attention and enthusiasm, and now I was pivoting away.It's time to pivot back a bit. The lift-served ski world is changing fast, especially among those giants with access to capital and ambition. So I've scheduled upcoming podcast conversations with the leaders of Killington and Sunday River, both of which I've profiled in the past. I'll pursue more such follow-ups in the future, in all regions – and not just with mega-resorts, as the recent second installment with the owners of Plattekill demonstrated. The long-term goal is to alternate podcasts so that every other episode focuses on the West, with the East/Midwest/Mid-Atlantic occupying the alternate slots.But setting aside my own admin, I'm focusing on Mount Snow because it's an incredibly important mountain. I'll reset what I wrote in this same section three years ago:Because Mount Snow is where big-time Northeast skiing begins. As the southern-most major Vermont ski area, it is a skier's gateway to mountains that are big enough to get lost on. From its strategic position in the orbit of the East Coast megalopolis, successive owners have gradually built something uniquely suited to the frenetic swarms of wildly varied skiers who bullseye the place each winter: Mount Snow has one of the most outstanding terrain parks in America and one of the best snowmaking systems in the world. The families who swarm here find absolutely unintimidating terrain, blue as the sky and groomed smoother than I-91. It's a perfect family mountain and a perfect bus skier's mountain and a perfect first step from Mount Local to something that shows you how big skiing can be. It was the crown jewel of the Peak Resort's empire, and it's one of the most important pieces to Vail's ever-expanding Epic jigsaw puzzle. I wouldn't call it a special mountain – the terrain is mild and not terribly interesting, and the volume and quality of natural snowfall is best described as adequate. But it is a vital mountain, as the southern-most anchor of Vermont's teeming ski scene, as an accessible ski experience for weekending cityfolk, as an aspirational destination for people stepping more fully into skiing culture, and as a testament to the power of the imagination to transform a big vertical drop and cold skies into a vital and vibrant node of the regional ski scene.What we talked aboutSurveying damage from the July rainstorm; the Epic Promise Foundation; Mount Snow's four-foot March snowstorm; the frantic hilarity of New England powder days; the difference between east and west coast pow; breaking down Mount Snow's lift upgrades at Sundance, Sunbrook, and Heavy Metal; how the Sundance six-pack “changed the dynamic of the ski resort”; why Sundance – unlike the mega-popular Bluebird Express – does not have bubbles; how the resort manages 18 high-speed out-of-base seats; the four most-utilized lifts at Mount Snow; how Mount Snow built the Sunbrook lift in a roadless section of mountain; what it took to convert the Heavy Metal lift from a double to a triple; why Vail auctioned the individual chairs from the old Sunbrook rather than selling the lift – a 1990 CTEC quad – to a smaller ski area; talking through long-term upgrades to Nitro; why the resort doesn't add more chairs to the current Nitro to boost its capacity from 2,100 skiers per hour to 2,400; the status of paid parking two years in; impressions of New England ski culture; the difference between running a mountain in the east and in the west; what happens when Vail surprise-buys your resort; connecting Park City to The Canyons via gondola – “the magnitude of it was not lost on me”; the mining facilities still scattered across Park City; career opportunity within Vail Resorts; Mount Snow's monster snowmaking system; why Mount Snow has become Vail's late-season New England operator, rather than Wildcat; why Carinthia is the mountain's late-operating pod; whether we could ever see another October opening at Mount Snow; potential upgrades for the North Face lifts; assessing the Beartrap double; contemplating the future of Grand Summit; whether we could ever see a detach lift on beginner terrain at Mount Snow; whether the Epic Local Pass is the correct unlimited-access pass for Mount Snow; the popularity of Northeast-specific Epic Passes; the Epic Day Pass; and Vail Resorts' day-ticket limits for the 2022-23 ski season.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewEver since Peak Resorts built the Bluebird Express six-pack in 2011, Mount Snow has had a problem: the lift, with its blue bubbles and ultra-smooth ride, was so flashy and appealing that nobody wanted to ride any other lift on the front side of the mountain. Even the Grand Summit high-speed quad, which runs parallel to Bluebird and serves all the same terrain, had trouble getting attention. This was great for skiers who actively work the mountain, but a real drag for Mount Snow's rap as the most-crowded Southern Vermont ski area.Enter: Vail Resorts' Epic Lift Upgrades of 2022. Mount Snow was the beneficiary of two of the 21 planned lifts (18 of which Vail finished on schedule*): the Sundance and Tumbleweed triples made way for a new six-pack, while the backside Sunbrook lift got a boost from a fixed-grip quad to a detach. Meanwhile, the mountain converted the Heavy Metal double into a triple chair, adding capacity to the popular Carinthia terrain park.Sundance and Sunbrook had one job: give people a reason to ski something besides Bluebird. As far as replacement lifts go, they seemed brilliant. But did the plan work to unknot Mount Snow's gnarliest crowd points?That was one topic Suhadolc and I discussed. Another: was Vail able to recover from its arguably oversold 2021-22 ski season by implementing day-ticket limits and settling into paid-parking plans? And how were those paid parking plans going? And should Mount Snow really be unlimited on the Epic Local Pass?Vail Resorts is entering its fifth winter season operating Mount Snow. With the Peak Resorts transition fully digested and Covid's hassles a memory, the company has no choice but to fully own every piece of the experience. With its size and proximity to New York City, Mount Snow will always be somewhat hectic. New Englanders can tolerate that. Chaos, however, does not belong in this land of picket-fence order. And for a moment post-Covid, Mount Snow seemed to be tilting toward chaos.But no one can say that Vail has not brought big change to the mountain over the past several seasons. Despite daily lift tickets that topped out at $154 this past winter, Mount Snow has never been more affordable to the masses. Unlimited access is just $689 on the Epic Local Pass; subtract holidays with the $567 Northeast Value Pass; minus weekends with the $425 Northeast Midweek Pass. With prices that low at a mountain that big that's as easy to access as Mount Snow is, things could go sideways pretty quick. The new lifts, the parking plans, the lift-ticket limits – all of it is calculated to prevent that from happening.Ski areas are a little bit like novels. They're never really finished. But unlike our great works of literature, we get to edit ski areas after they're published. The version of Mount Snow that we ski today is probably not the best and final version of the hill, but it may also be the best it's ever been,.*Two lifts scheduled to rise in Park City were rerouted to Whistler after spiteful locals revolted; Keystone's Bergman sixer had to wait a year after a construction-road misfire tore up some sensitive high-altitude terrain.What I got wrong* I said that the new Sunbrook high-speed quad clocked a ride time around four minutes. The actual time is closer to six minutes, according to Suhadolc.* I asked Brian why Vail didn't try to re-use the Sunbrook lift – a 1990 CTEC quad that likely had lots of life left on it – at a “smaller ski area.” He explained that Vail does occasionally move a lift within its portfolio. What I had meant to ask, however, was why didn't Mount Snow didn't attempt to sell the lift on the open market to a smaller independent ski area. It's great that Mount Snow sold the chairs and flipped the money to the Epic Promise Foundation, which assists their employees in times of outstanding need, such as the floods that just smashed Okemo. But the company could likely have made more for Epic Promise by selling the entire lift to an independent ski area, many of which are desperate for a modern quad in good working condition.* I said that Vail Resorts purchased Park City Mountain Resort “in 2014 or 2015.” The company bought the resort in 2014, a year after it bought Canyons (which is now part of Park City).* I said the Outpost lift turned 60 this year. Lift Blog, my go-to source for pretty much all things lifts, lists the lift as a 1963 Yan triple. Brian said that it is a 1988 CTEC triple. New England Ski History agrees with Brian. This is not a crack on Lift Blog, which is an excellent resource, so much as on me for not double-checking my references - in fact, I think Tracy Bartels corrected me on the exact same factoid three years ago.* I said that the Northeast Midweek Epic Pass was “less than $400.” This is incorrect. The pass currently costs $425. The early-bird price for the 2023-24 ski season was $416.* When I was running through the various resorts that the Northeast-specific Epic Passes accessed, I left out Mt. Brighton, Michigan.* I noted that Mount Snow had opened in October “once and maybe twice” under Peak Resorts. The only record I can find of Mount Snow opening that early was on Oct. 27, 2018.Why you should ski Mount SnowMount Snow has two big, obvious constituencies: Park Brah and Family Bro.The Carinthia peak is a crucial piece of Peak Resorts' legacy, as important as the Bluebird Express or the tens of millions the company pumped into snowmaking upgrades. Once a separate ski area, the peak is isolated from the mountain proper (though connected both ways by green trails), a thousand vertical feet of straight hits served by a high-speed quad and a triple chair. Park Brahs can park out, Brah. Along with Seven Brothers at Loon, it may be the best terrain park in the eastern United States.Family Bro loves Mount Snow partly because of Carinthia. Radbrah Junior can spend his afternoons there, posted up five wide with his boys, contemplating the hits below. The rest of the mountain, outside of the North Face, is interstate-width and solid blue. Families of almost any ability can manage this terrain. Mount Snow may be home to the best sustained intermediate terrain in New England. It's certainly among the most varied. And the mountain grooms just about every run just about every night, even if I wish they'd chill and let some bumps sprout here and there. Mount Snow's biggest drawback is a relative lack of glades for a mountain of its size. Skiers seeking trees should aim their GPS for Stratton or Magic, both of which have excellent, extensive glade networks.Epic Pass holders need to really pick their spots, though. Both Mount Snow and Okemo reach stampede-level crowding on weekends and holidays (I really don't think either should be unlimited on the Epic Local pass). Head for Stowe at these times if at all possible. Or snag an Indy Pass for peak-day getaways to Magic and Bolton Valley.Podcast NotesOn Heavenly and the Caldor FireWhen discussing Vail Resorts' unified disaster response to the recent Vermont floods, I referred to a similar conversation I'd had with Heavenly COO Tom Fortune in regards to the Caldor Fire that descended on Tahoe two years ago. You can listen to that conversation starting at 56:03 here.On Vermont's monster March snowstormWe discussed a monster snowstorm that descended on Vermont March 14 to 15. Huge snow totals included 45 inches at Bromley, 37 inches at Magic, and 46 inches at Mount Snow.On crushing pow at Mount SnowI discussed the chaos of a pow-day rope-drop at Mount Snow. Unfortunately the only access I have to it is this Twitter video. And since Substack won't embed Twitter videos anymore you'll have to click through to watch it:Too many “suns”I kept getting Mount Snow's “sun” lifts confused. It reminded me of a time I was skiing Snowbird, and a bunch of us were debating where to go next, and my buddy Mike, clearly confused, was just like, “There's too many Gads.” And my God he's right.On the Mount Snow “tram”Brian and I briefly discussed Mount Snow's old “tram,” which transported skiers from a base-area hotel up to the ski hill. It was really more of a whacky speedboat suspended from a cable, as you can see in the rendering on this 1965 trailmap. And yes, that's a double bubble chair beside it:On the Vail Resorts acquisition of Park CityBrian worked at Park City when Vail Resorts swiped it off Powdr Corp's lunch tray after the latter forgot to renew its lease. It was probably the most cartoonishly absurd business transaction in the history of lift-served skiing. Here's Park Record, examining the events as part of a decade-in-review series in late 2019:In some circles, though, the whispers had already started that something was afoot, and perhaps not right, at PCMR. Powdr Corp. for some unknown reason was negotiating a sale of its flagship resort, the most prevalent of the rumblings held. The CEO of Powdr Corp., John Cumming, late in 2011 had publicly stated there was not a deal involving PCMR under negotiation, telling Park City leaders during a Marsac Building appearance in December of that year the resort was “not for sale.” Later that evening, he told The Park Record the rumors “always amuse me.”The reality was far more astonishing and something that would define the decade in Park City in a similar fashion as the Olympics did in the previous 10-year span and the population boom did in the 1990s.The corporate infrastructure in the spring of 2011 had inadvertently failed to renew two leases on the land underlying most of the PCMR terrain, propelling the PCMR side and the landowner, a firm under the umbrella of Talisker Corp., into what were initially private negotiations and then into a dramatic lawsuit that unfolded in state court as the Park City community, the tourism industry and the North American ski industry watched in disbelief. As the decade ends, the turmoil that beset PCMR stands, in many ways, as the instigator of a changing Park City that has left so many Parkites uneasy about the city's future as a true community.The PCMR side launched the litigation in March of 2012, saying the future of the resort was at stake in the case. PCMR might be forced to close if it did not prevail, the president and general manager of the resort at the time said at the outset of the case. Talisker Land Holdings, LLC countered that the leases had expired, suddenly leaving doubts that Powdr Corp. would retain control of PCMR. …Colorado-based Vail Resorts, one of Powdr Corp.'s industry rivals, would enter the case on the Talisker Land Holdings, LLC side in May of 2013 with the aim of wresting the disputed land from Powdr Corp. and coupling it with nearby Canyons Resort, which was branded a Vail Resorts property as part of a long-term lease and operations agreement reached at the same time of the Vail Resorts entry into the case. Vail Resorts was already an industry behemoth with its namesake property in the Rockies and other mountain resorts across North America. The addition of Canyons Resort would advance the Vail Resorts portfolio in one of North America's key skiing states.It was a deft maneuver orchestrated by the chairman and CEO of Vail Resorts, Rob Katz. The agreement was pegged at upward of $300 million in long-term debt. As part of the deal, Vail Resorts also seized control of the litigation on behalf of Talisker Land Holdings, LLC. …The lawsuit itself unfolded with stunning developments followed by shocking ones over the course of two-plus years. In one stupefying moment, the Talisker Land Holdings, LLC attorneys discovered a crucial letter from the PCMR side regarding the leases had been backdated. In another such moment, PCMR outlined plans to essentially dismantle the resort infrastructure, possibly on an around-the-clock schedule, if it was ordered off the disputed land.What was transpiring in the courtroom was inconceivable to the community. How could Powdr Corp., even inadvertently, not renew the leases on the ground that made up most of the skiing terrain at PCMR, many asked. Why couldn't Powdr Corp. and Talisker Land Holdings, LLC just reach a new agreement, others wondered. And many became weary as businessmen and their attorneys took to the courtroom with the future of PCMR, critical to a broad swath of the local economy, at stake. The mood eventually shifted to exasperation as it appeared there was a chance PCMR would not open for a ski season if Talisker Land Holdings, LLC moved forward with an eviction against Powdr Corp. from the disputed terrain.The lawsuit wore on with the Talisker Land Holdings, LLC-Vail Resorts side winning a series of key rulings from the 3rd District Court judge presiding over the case. Judge Ryan Harris in the summer of 2014 signed a de facto eviction notice against PCMR and ordered the sides into mediation. Powdr Corp., realizing there was little more that could be accomplished as it attempted to maintain control of PCMR, negotiated a $182.5 million sale of the resort to Vail Resorts that September.Absolutely brutal and amazing and hard to believe, even nearly a decade later.On Canyons' name historyI mentioned the various names that the former Canyons ski area (now part of Park City), had gone by. Ski Utah provides the complete history:A neighboring ski area and sister resort to Park City Ski Area, called Park City West, opened in 1968. It was renamed ParkWest in 1975 after a change in ownership, then Wolf Mountain in 1995 for just two seasons. In 1997 it became The Canyons after an acquisition by the American Skiing Company before it was purchased by the Talisker Corporation. It was then sold to Vail Resorts in 2014 and subsequently merged with Park City Mountain. Today that base area is known as The Canyons Village at Park City.On Mount Snow's amazing snowmaking systemJust two years before selling its entire portfolio to Vail Resorts, Peak Resorts invested an amazing $30 million into Mount Snow's snowmaking system. The Brattleboro Reformer profiled the system shortly before go-live in 2017:West Lake is actually a sprawling system that begins about 4 miles from Mount Snow.It starts with a small, black, inflatable dam that stretches 18 feet across Cold Brook in Wilmington. From November through March, Mount Snow can inflate that dam as needed, drawing water into the newly constructed reservoir.A sluiceway alongside the dam ensures a flow of water in Cold Brook whether the dam is inflated or not."We were trying to be pretty low-impact, or as low-impact as possible," Storrs said.A nondescript-looking pump house near the dam can send water upward toward Mount Snow at a rate of 11,800 gallons per minute, "which is pretty much double what we used to have in terms of pumping capacity," Storrs said.On a recent morning, crews were putting on finishing touches and conducting tests at that pump house and two others situated farther up the mountain. There's a nearly 600-foot elevation gain between the inflatable dam and the last pump house on Mount Snow's slopes.On Wildcat and the long seasonWe discussed Wildcat's tradition as a late operator. Under Peak Resorts, the ski area would push the season into late April and, occasionally, May. Snowpak has documented Wildcat's closing dates over the past nine years – note the shift to earlier dates after Vail acquired the resort in 2019 (ignore the 2020 date, for obvious reasons):Vail shifted late-season New England operations to Mount Snow for reasons that Brian explains on the podcast. But it's a little incongruous stacked up against the region's other five late operators: Killington, Sugarbush, Jay Peak, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf, all of which are quite a ways north of Mount Snow:On Grand Summit and Yan detachablesI referred to the dreadful safety record of Yan detachable lifts. I broke this history of death and incompetence down in my recent podcast with China Peak GM Tim Cohee (scroll down to the Podcast Notes section).On Epic and Ikon access shifts since 2020I keep asking Vail Resorts' GMs if their ski areas are placed on the appropriate Epic Pass tier, mostly because it's amazing to me that an unlimited season pass to a mountain like Breckenridge or Mount Snow or Stevens Pass could be $676 – the early-bird price of 2023-24 Epic Local Passes. The Ikon Pass, as I noted on the podcast, has shifted its pass structure all over the place the past several seasons, tweaking access to Stratton, Sugarbush, Crystal Mountain, Alta, Aspen, Jackson Hole, Taos, Deer Valley, and Arapahoe Basin. Here's the chart I included in my recent podcast conversation with Alterra CEO Jared Smith to document those changes:I was astonished when Vail kept Stevens Pass on the Epic Local unlimited tier after 2021's well-documented crowding meltdowns. Things got so wild in Washington that Alterra pulled Crystal off the Ikon Pass' unlimited tier and jacked its season pass price up to $1,700 for the 2022-23 ski season. I still don't really understand this super-bargain access strategy, but Vail has made it clear that they're sticking with it.On the phenomenal deal that is the Epic Day PassWe discussed the Epic Day Pass. This thing really is an amazing deal:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 68/100 in 2023, and number 454 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #134: China Peak President & GM Tim Cohee

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 10, 2023 79:36

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and to support my work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.WhoTim Cohee, President and General Manager of China Peak, California and President of California Mountain Resort CompanyRecorded onJune 19, 2023About China PeakClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: California Mountain Resort CompanyLocated in: Lakeshore, CaliforniaYear founded: 1958Pass affiliations:* Cali Pass – Unlimited access* Indy Base Pass – 2 days, potential blackouts TBD* Indy+ Pass – 2 days, no blackouts* Powder Alliance – 2 days, potential blackouts TBDReciprocal partners: None (Cali Pass includes Powder Alliance + unlimited access to Mountain High and Dodge Ridge)Closest neighboring ski areas: Badger Pass (2 hours, 45 minutes), Dodge Ridge (4 hours, 1 minute)Base elevation: 7,030 feetSummit elevation: 8,709 feetVertical drop: 1,679 feetSkiable Acres: 1,200Average annual snowfall: 300 inchesTrail count: 54 Lift count: 11 lifts (2 quads, 4 triples, 1 T-bar, 4 carpets) - Total includes Chair 6 upgrade from a double to a fixed-grip quad this summer; China Peak also plans to replace the Firebowl T-bar with a used quad from Taos in 2024 - view Lift Blog's inventory of China Peak's lift fleetWhy I interviewed himThe Storm Skiing Podcast is not yet four years old, but it is established enough to have hosted several repeat guests: Indy Pass founder Doug Fish (four appearances), Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher (three), Alterra chair Rusty Gregory (three), and snowsports columnist Shaun Sutner (two, with a third scheduled for November). Magic Mountain, Vermont President Geoff Hatheway and Berkshire East/Catamount owner Jon Schaefer have also appeared twice.What makes a good repeat guest? Many things. Fish, Kircher, and Gregory oversee rapidly changing and expansive portfolios whose evolutions shape the lift-served ski landscape as a whole. Hatheway and Schaefer guide small operations, but they are among the most original thinkers in skiing. Sutner brings deep experience and perspective to the layered New England ski scene.Tim Cohee fits into the Hatheway/Schaefer camp. Anyone who listened to my first podcast interview with him, in 2021, knows this. He brings a West Coast moxie and brashness to the rough-and-ruthless Sierras, tempered by the humbling realities of operating mountains in the fickle range over four-plus decades.The Storm, in general, is more interested in place over person. I don't seek out whacky characters or eccentrics. They may be captivating in an oddball way, but I need to find the individuals who actually make things happen, who, through will or persistence or luck or planning help shape our collective lift-served ski experience.Sometimes, however, you get both charisma and decision-making. Would I be running my second podcast focused on a mid-sized California ski area if it were owned and operated by someone else? Maybe. But probably not. At least not so soon. This is a hyper-regional mountain, isolated and hard to reach for anyone who doesn't live in or near Fresno. It's 65 miles and an hour and a half off the expressway – time that most SoCal drivers are going to use to keep moving north to Mammoth or Tahoe.But here we are, back in the parking lot at the end of highway 168, for the second time in two years. You'll understand why once you click “play.” What we talked aboutChina Peak's record-smashing snowfall this past season; when big snow equals big problems; how running Kirkwood prepared Cohee for a huge 2022-23 at China Peak; weathering nine droughts in 11 seasons; selling the ski area to California Mountain Resorts Company; Karl Kapuscinski, “mountain guy”; the Cali Pass; “I wish I was partners with Karl 10 years ago”; doing your best work in your ‘60s; “there's no better investment company in the country in the ski business than Invision Capital”; the long-term potential for California Mountain Resort Company (CMRC) to by more ski areas; potential for Powder Alliance to morph into a revenue-generating pass; Doug Fish and the Indy Pass; whether Powder Alliance could expand outside of the West in North America; how Epic and Ikon have lifted small ski areas; how China Peak works together with Dodge Ridge and Mountain High as a collective; how Covid supercharged China Peak's business; why Ross Blackburn bailed out China Peak; the “smartest guy ever in the American ski industry”; why China Peak finally invested in a real snowmaking system and what happened when it did; this summer's Canyon lift upgrade; where a detachable lift could fit at China Peak and what sort of lift that could be; “Karl and I are passionate about mirroring as much of what the big resorts do as we can”; a Firebowl lift upgrade; another lift upgrade for Dodge Ridge; thinking through Lift 1 upgrades; why China Peak removed the Dynamite/old Buckhorn lift; why the mountain changed the name of the Exhibition lift to “Buckhorn”; “China Peak would probably be the fifth or sixth best ski area in Lake Tahoe if it was up there”; reaching for 200,000 skier visits; the problem with an East Bowl lift; why China Peak terrain expansion is unlikely; “you can put 5,500 people at China Peak and it will gobble them up”; the ski area that CMRC is trying to buy next; and why Cohee changed the name back to “China Peak” in 2010.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewChina Peak is making all kinds of moves lately:* After staggering along on a primitive snowmaking system for decades, China Peak finally installed a modern network in 2021. Following nine droughts in 11 seasons, this seemed like the only route to survival. Only, it hasn't stopped snowing since. China Peak obliterated its all-time snowfall record during the 2022-23 ski season, piling up 701 inches from November to May.* In December, Cohee sold China Peak to Invision Capital and Karl Kapuscinski, an enterprise that has now reformulated as “California Mountain Resort Company” (CMRC). It was an unexpected move that continued the rollup of North America's ski industry into conglomerates large and small, lumping China Peak in with new sister resorts Mountain High and Dodge Ridge.* In February, CMRC introduced the “Cali Pass” for the 2023-24 ski season. Renewing passholders could lock in unlimited access to Mountain High, Dodge Ridge, and China Peak for $599 ($649 for new customers). The pass, which currently runs $699, also includes Powder Alliance benefits: three days each at 19 other ski areas, including Sierra-at-Tahoe. All three ski areas continue to sell single-mountain passes, which debuted at $499/$449 renewal at China Peak (now $549), and $549/$499 renewal at Mountain High and Dodge Ridge (now $599). The Cali Pass is one of a growing number of regional ski passes that deliver multi-mountain access outside of the Epkon ecosystem.* One of the 62 lift installations rising across North America this summer is at China Peak, where Jackson Hole's old Thunder fixed-grip quad is replacing a Riblet double on the Canyon line. Cohee discusses a second lift upgrade for next summer, for the long-defunct Firebowl T-bar.* China Peak still relies entirely on a fixed-grip lift fleet. This could change as CMRC looks to retool its portfolio for skiing's high-speed age. That could mean big changes for Lift 1, Summit, which is currently a fixed-grip triple. Cohee thinks an upgrade to a high-speed six on that line could be among the most consequential lift replacements in the history of California skiing.What I got wrongI didn't get this wrong, necessarily, but I wanted to make a note about Ski Cooper and the Powder Alliance. Cohee and I spoke on June 19 – Ski Cooper announced that it had joined the Powder Alliance on June 30. Otherwise, I certainly would have asked him about it during our Powder Alliance discussion.Cohee and I talked through the coming lift upgrade at Dodge Ridge on the fly. We settled on a likely upgrade to Lift 5, but the resort is in fact upgrading Lift 6, from a Riblet double to a quad, for the 2024-25 ski season:Why you should ski China PeakIt's hard to contemplate how a ski area can be both at the ass-end of the road and in the most populous state in the nation. But that's China Peak: an hour and a half dead east of Fresno, at the terminus of a road that just can't quite contemplate going any deeper into the mountains. Mammoth, 28 miles away as the bird flies, is a six-and-a-half-hour drive.You should go anyway. “We don't even have a line on a triple chair,” Cohee tells me of China Peak's Summit Lift, the mountain's only top-to-bottom chair. “There's no way you can stand in line 10 minutes. It's not possible. Most of the time it's two or three minutes on a fixed triple chair.” So, no one's there, and you get a big mountain. Cohee explains: “People that have come there, that have never been there, are like, ‘how can there be a 1,700-vertical-foot mountain, fall-line skiing, steeps, long runs, fall-line runs, fantastic grooming, and all the frills, and I've never heard of it?' And I said, ‘because it's not in your market.'”Find me something more appealing than a 1,700-vertical-foot mountain with no liftlines. Sure, you're riding a fixed-grip lift to the top, but I'll take no line on a slow lift over a long line on a fast lift any day. And once they drop that sixer in there? Dang.Podcast NotesOn Karl Kapuscinski and California Mountain Resorts CompanyCohee and I talk extensively about Karl Kapuscinski, the CEO of CMRC and longtime owner of Mountain High. Kapuscinski joined me on the podcast last June (prior to the China Peak purchase), and we went deep on long-term plans at Mountain High and Dodge Ridge.On putting a lift on hike-to terrain in Telluride and TaosCohee referenced the contentious history of stringing chairlifts into what had traditionally been hike-to terrain. His examples were Taos and Telluride. Taos ran a 1,095-vertical-foot triple chair up Kachina Peak in 2014, delivering easy mass access to what had been revered hike-to terrain since the resort's earliest days. Note the lift-less Kachina Peak far looker's left on this 2012 trailmap:And here's Taos today (the mountain is replacing Lift 4, a fixed-grip quad, with a high-speed detach quad this summer - that lift is being split between China Peak and Dodge Ridge for the 2024 upgrade noted above; Taos will also upgrade Pioneer from a used Yan triple to a new Leitner-Poma triple this summer):The Telluride access issue was more complex, and was only tangentially related to the Revelation lift, which the resort installed on the backside in 2008. That lift made it slightly easier to access the Bear Creek terrain, which Powder characterized in 2014 as “a sprawling, steep, chute-choked drainage” and “some of the best lift-accessed backcountry in the country.” More:In 2000, skiers convinced the Forest Service to put in access points on Palmyra Peak at the top of the Gold Hill Chutes. The backcountry gates were also part of a terrain expansion in the resort. Local skiers thought the problem was solved, but the debate didn't end there. Ten years later, in December 2010, they closed the gates again due to complaints from a Bear Creek landowner. There are private inholdings in the Forest Service land in the canyon, and those landowners didn't want skiers cutting through their property.Read the rest to see how the problem sorted out. And here's the Telluride trailmap for reference:On Janek KunczynskiCohee referenced a conversation he'd had with “Yan Kunczynski,” saying that, “obviously he had his issues.” If it's not obvious to the listener, here's what he was talking about: Kuncyznski founded Yan chairlifts in 1965. They were sound lifts, and the company built hundreds, many of which are still in operation today. However. Yan's high-speed lifts turned out to be death traps. Two people died in a 1985 accident at Keystone. A 9-year-old died in a 1993 accident at Sierra-at-Tahoe (then known as Sierra Ski Ranch). Two more died at Whistler in 1995. This is why all three detachable quads at Sierra-at-Tahoe date to 1996 – the mountain ripped out all three Yan machines following the accident, even though the oldest dated only to 1989.Several Yan high-speed detachables still run, but they have been heavily modified and retrofit. Superstar Express at Killington, for example, was “retrofitted with new Poma grips and sheaves as well as terminal modifications in 1994,” according to Lift Blog. In total, 15 ski areas, including Sun Valley, Schweitzer, Mount Snow, Mammoth, and Palisades Tahoe spent millions upgrading or replacing Yan detachable quads. The company ceased operations in 2001.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 57/100 in 2023, and number 443 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #132: Granite Gorge, New Hampshire General Manager Keith Kreischer

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 18, 2023 84:00

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on June 15. It dropped for free subscribers on June 18. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe for free below:WhoKeith Kreischer, General Manager of Granite Gorge, New HampshireRecorded onMay 30, 2023About Granite GorgeOwned by: Granite Gorge Partnership LLC, a group of local investorsLocated in: Roxbury, New HampshireYear founded: 1959Pass affiliations: NoneReciprocal partners: NoneClosest neighboring ski areas: Crotched (32 minutes), Brattleboro (32 minutes), Bellows Falls (35 minutes), Pats Peak (37 minutes), Mount Sunapee (50 minutes), Arrowhead (50 minutes), Ascutney (58 minutes), McIntyre (1 hour), Hermitage Club (1 hour, 6 minutes), Mount Snow (1 hour, 9 minutes), Magic (1 hour, 3 minutes), Wachusett (1 hour, 7 minutes), Bromley (1 hour, 13 minutes), Berkshire East (1 hour, 13 minutes), Okemo (1 hour, 13 minutes), Veterans Memorial (1 hour, 14 minutes), Ragged Mountain (1 hour, 16 minutes), Stratton (1 hour, 18 minutes)Base elevation: 800 feetSummit elevation: 1,325 feetVertical drop: 525 feetSkiable Acres: 25Average annual snowfall: 100 inchesTrail count: 17 (2 expert, 3 advanced, 5 intermediate, 7 beginner)Lift count: 3 (1 double, 1 handletow, 1 carpet)Why I interviewed himIt doesn't happen often, these comebacks. Ski areas die and they stay dead. Or they die and return and die again and then they're really gone.We're at a weird inflection point. After decades of exploding numbers followed by decades of divebombing ranks, the number of U.S. ski areas has stabilized over the past 20 years. Most of the ski areas that are going to die already have. Most of the ones that remain will survive indefinitely. Yes, climate change. But this has been a long-simmering storm and operators have strung lines of snowguns like cannons along a castle wall. They are ready to fight and they will.They have plenty to fight for. In most of U.S. America, it is all but impossible to build a new ski area. Imagine if no one could build a new restaurant or grocery store. The owners of existing restaurants and grocery stores would rejoice, knowing that anyone who wanted to eat out or buy a banana would have to do it through them. Such is the state of U.S. skiing – what we have is all we're ever going to get*. The established mountains are not exactly monopolies, but they do not have to worry about unexpected new competition, either.There is one hack: if a would-be owner can find an abandoned ski area, the path to selling lift tickets and hauling weekenders up the incline becomes infinitely easier. It's the difference between fixing up a junkyard car and assembling one from the raw elements of the earth. You'd have a better chance of building a time machine out of cardboard boxes and a Nintendo Game Boy than you would of constructing a ski area on a raw New England hillside. But find one already scarred with the spiderweb of named trails, and you have a chance.It's not a good chance. Ski areas do come back: Saddleback in 2020, Tenney and Granite Gorge in 2023. Les Otten may bring the Balsams Wilderness back as a mega-resort. But most simply fade. There are hundreds of lost ski areas in New England – many times more have died than survived. Many big and established ski centers evaporated: Mt. Tom, Brodie, Crotched East, King Ridge, Moose Mountain, Mt. Whittier, Maple Valley, Plymouth Notch, Snow Valley. Empty lifts still swing over many of these mountains decades after they went bust, but none ever found its way back.So why this one? Why Granite Gorge? A small ski area in a state stuffed with giant ski areas, many of them a mainline shot off the interstate from Boston. Once the joint closed after a rough winter in 1977, that should have been it. Another lost ski area in a state littered with them.But then Granite Gorge re-opened, miraculously, improbably, in 2003, under Fred Baybutt, who also ran a local construction company with his family. Baybutt added snowmaking and night skiing, built a new lodge and a new bridge over from Route 9. He bought a used Borvig double and ran it to the summit.But the ski area never really found momentum under Baybutt. By 2018, the chairlift had ceased operations. The ropetow and carpet continued to spin, but in August 2020, Baybutt died suddenly, and the ski area appeared to die with him.Except that it didn't. Granite Gorge is back. Somehow, this 525-vertical foot, low-elevation molehill whose direct competitors include basically every ski area in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts has more lives than a cartoon coyote smashed under an anvil. It's one of the best stories in New England skiing right now, and I had to hear it.*With rare exceptions, such as the forthcoming Mayflower, Utah.What we talked aboutWhat it's like to take that first general manager job; an overgrown mess; “I had to keep in mind that there was going to be an unlimited amount of punches that were going to be dealt”; how a busted Ford Taurus and a can of Red Bull foreshadowed the renaissance of Granite Gorge; Kreischer's messianic, decade-long quest to rescue Granite Gorge; how an ownership group “who really just wanted this thing back in the hands of the community” came together; advice for up-and-comers in the ski business; trying to save the lost Tanglwood ski area in Pennsylvania or Maple Valley in Vermont; Granite Gorge under the Baybutt family, the previous owners; Keene, New Hampshire; the rabid outdoor culture in the Northeast; how this time is different at Granite Gorge; fixing the bridge back to the ski area; helping ownership understand the enormous capital needs; the power of admitting your shortcomings; “if you don't know something, you need to find someone who does”; the comeback season was “awesome”; much love for Mountain Creek; finding a niche at Nashoba Valley; reviving the Granite Gorge double chair; why the ski area removed the lift's mid-station; Granite Gorge's snowmaking footprint and aspirations; how the ski area's new mountain bike operation will enhance glade skiing; surviving as a small ski area in a big ski state; night skiing; building terrain parks at an appropriate scale for mortals; running a mountain as a dad with five children; keeping lift tickets and passes affordable; a parking shortage; and competing against megapasses.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewI first connected with Keith sometime last spring, when he shot me an email with a promising update on Granite Gorge. The ski area was re-opening, he said, but I'd have to keep it to myself for the time being. Shortly after, the new ownership group officially named him general manager, and by August he was whacking weeds from beneath the Granite Gorge sign on Route 9 and brushing ticks off his legs.Excited as I was about this news, I generally don't ask folks to join me on the podcast until they've weathered at least one season leading their current resort. It's impossible to really know the place until you've sat teeth-gritted through a brown rain-soaked January and roared in glory at a nor-easter-driven March power-up. It's just not something you can appreciate through Zuckerberg's Oculus glasses. You have to be there.So we waited. In January, the ski area cranked open with its ropetow. The chairlift came online in mid-February. I was there the next day, taking fastlaps off the summit with my six-year-old. I stopped Kreischer for what would become my first #TwoMinuteStorm (basically, very short interviews with ski area managers) video on Instagram (click through to listen):Kreischer and I talked last summer, so I had a sense of his baseline. This podcast was almost like talking to a different person. It was like he'd spent 10 months cramming for a master's degree in Granite Gorge. Which I guess he had. But waiting was the right decision. Kreischer is a terrific ski area leader, thoughtful and passionate and enthusiastic and full of positive energy. He's the kind of guy who only gets more interested in a topic as he immerses himself in it. And after transforming an overgrown backwoods bump into a living business, his raw passion for the job had only amplified and become more focused. Last summer, Granite Gorge was an abstract thing. It was right there, waiting, but you could only really find it in your imagination. Now it's real. Now, he's actually done it. Actually re-opened a dead-as-the-dinosaurs ski area. Even if you normally just read this article and skip the podcast, listen to this one. Kreischer is as authentic and sincere as they get.Why you should ski Granite GorgeNot to be lazy with it, but I've covered this one already:Of all the ski states in America, I can't think of a rougher one to make a go as an operator than New Hampshire. There are so many good and large resorts and they are impossibly easy to access, stacked along I-93 like a snowy outlet mall. But here's little Granite Gorge, opened in 1959 but busted in the ‘70s and re-opened in 2003 and busted again in 2020 and now, improbably, opened again under a group of local business owners who bought it at auction last June. The joint sits in the southwest corner of the state, well off the main ski thoroughfares, which means it will make it as a locals' bump for Keene or it won't make it at all. I took my 6-year-old and we rolled 15 runs off the double chair that had re-opened the day before after not running since 2018. It was creaky and cranky and the mid-station was gone but it was running. We skied the same run over and over, a thin and windy green lolling off the summit. Six hundred vertical feet, up and down. Skier traffic was light but the tubing hill was full. It was a holiday weekend and we'd found a hack. No liftlines on a New England Sunday.Skiing there feels like being part of an excavation, as though they are digging things out of the ground and looking at them and trying to figure out what the ancients of New Hampshire could have been doing with such contraptions. It's spunky and plucky and a little ramshackle. You drive over a single-vehicle bridge to access a parking lot that's muddy and ungraded and unmanaged. They removed the chairlift mid-station, but it's still laying in parts scattered all over the woods. The lodge is squat and half-finished like a field hospital. But a strong spirit of revival is there, and if the owners can have patience enough to give this thing five years and focus on busloads of kids, it has a future.OK maybe not the best commercial for the place. But here's what Granite Gorge can give you: a completely uncrowded and inexpensive ski experience in a region that's getting short on both. Probably not your destination if you and the boys are looking to link Flipdoodle Supremes on monster kickers. Perfect if, like me, you're a dad who doesn't want to fight crowds on a holiday weekend. Or if you're a local looking to crush turns after work. Or if you live nearby and you have an Epic Pass but you just want to support the joint. There are worse places for your money.Podcast NotesOn the auction timelineThe current owners won Granite Gorge in an auction last June. From the June 6, 2022 Keene Sentinel:It took nearly 10 minutes of deliberation, two bidders dropping out and a back-and-forth bidding war amounting to $210,000 before a developer secured the rights to the former Granite Gorge Ski Area property along with the intent to reopen it for recreation.Between breaks of silence, bidders at Friday's foreclosure auction raised the stakes from an opening bid of $240,000 to a winning bid of $430,000 on site at the property, located along Route 9 in Roxbury. Bryan Granger, the senior vice president of Keene-based wholesale grocery company C&S Wholesale Grocers, clinched the final bid.Granger represented Granite Gorge Partnership, LLC at the auction, which claims itself to be a local group of Keene investors with a “shared desire of returning winter and summer activities to Granite Gorge in a safe and inclusive manner,” according to a media statement Granger provided to The Sentinel.The other bidder was a Massachusetts-based contractor named Nick Williamson.On Granite Gorge's troubled historyNew England Ski History provides a succinct timeline of Granite Gorge's history (the ski area was originally known as “Pinnacle”). A few highlights:Following the 1974-75 season, George LaBrecque transferred the ski area to Maurice Stone. One year later, Stone sold the area to Paul and Eleanor Jensen of Connecticut. Dealing with subpar snowfall, no snowmaking, and aging infrastructure, the Jensens only operated the Pinnacle for the 1976-77 season. Following the season, when mortgage payments were missed, Stone foreclosed and took back the property. There would be no more lift-served skiing at Pinnacle for the rest of the twentieth century.In November 1980, Stone sold the 94-acre Pinnacle property to Juanita Robinson of Kentucky and her three sons, one of whom lived in Massachusetts. Though “big plans” were teased with skiing to return in 1980 or 1981, Pinnacle remained idle.In December 1985, the Robinsons sold the property to Bald Mountain Park, Inc. The real estate entity held the property for fourteen years.In September 1999, Baybutt Construction purchased the former ski area and commenced studies for a potential reopening. …After a quarter of a century of idleness, the Pinnacle became a work site in the spring of 2002 when a new bridge was built from Route 9 to the base area.The Pinnacle reopened in early 2003 under the name of Granite Gorge. … The tiny startup on the Bunny Buster slope featured a rope tow and snowmaking. …After multiple years of planning and decades after the first proposal, Granite Gorge saw a significant expansion in 2005 with the addition of a double chairlift to Spruce Peak.Snowmaking and night skiing were expanded for 2006-07, which also featured a new base yurt. Snowmaking was expanded to the top of the chairlift for the 2008-2009 season, while night skiing followed up the mountain for the 2009-2010 season.In 2010 Granite Gorge was approved for a 300-person lodge, to be built in phases. Portions were completed in 2011 and 2012.In late 2012, parent company Baybutt Construction was dealing with escalating financial problems. One of Baybutt's lenders, Interstate Electrical Services Corp., arranged for a foreclosure auction of some of Baybutt's properties, including Granite Gorge ski area, for February 1, 2013. The auction was cancelled at the last minute and the ski area remained open. That month, Baybutt Construction Corp. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.Granite Gorge continued to operate and grow in subsequent years, including adding to its off season offerings and events. …Granite Gorge scaled back operations for the 2018-19 season, as it ceased operating the chairlift and instead focused on snow tubing and skiing on the Bunny Buster trail. After nearly being auctioned off in the summer of 2019, the ski area continued to operate its surface lifts during the winter of 2019-20.On August 3, 2020, Fred Baybutt died of a sudden heart event at the age of 60. Following his death, Granite Gorge sat idle.On Tanglwood, PAKreischer recalls early snowboard adventures at Tanglwood, one of dozens of abandoned ski areas in Pennsylvania's Poconos. DCSki lists modest stats for the joint: 415 vertical feet on 35 acres served by two double chairs and a ropetow. The place closed around 2010 and liquidated its lifts in 2012. Here's a circa 2008 trailmap:I spent a few hours hiking the place back in 2021. Here's what I wrote at the time:Another 40 minutes up wild Pennsylvania highway is Tanglwood, 415 vertical feet shuttered since 2010. The mountain once had two doubles and two T-bars and a ropetow but now it has nothing, the place stripped as though looted by a ski grinch stuffing the chairs and tower guns into his wicked sleigh. Concrete lift towers anchored into the forest and the trails themselves are all that remain. The place is filled with deer. Like all the ski areas I visited that day it is lined with houses. It is late in the day and the American mole people are emerging to stand on their decks and tend to their plants and I wonder what it would be like to live on a ski area and then not live on a ski area because the ski area is gone and now you just live on a mountain where it hardly ever snows and you can hardly ever ski. I think I would be pissed.On Maple Valley, VermontKreischer also considered resurrecting Maple Valley, a thousand-footer in Southern Vermont. It had a nice little spread:The place opened in 1963 and made it, haltingly, to the end of the century under a series of owners. The culprit was likely a very tough neighborhood – Southern Vermont skiers have their choice of Stratton, Mount Snow, Bromley, or Magic. Maple Valley was just a little too close and a little too small to compete:I also included Granite Gorge on the map, so you can see how close the place is. I wouldn't have bet on Granite to re-open before Maple if pure ski terrain were the only factor to consider. But a fellow named Nicholas Mercede tried twice to open the ski area, according to New England Ski History. NIMBYs beat him back, and he died in 2018 at age 90.The lifts – a pair of 1960s Hall doubles – are, I believe, still standing. An outfit called “Sugar Mountain Holdings” has owned the ski area since 2018, and “a long-term vision was announced for possibly reopening the ski area,” according to New England Ski History.On Ski Resort Tycoon, the videogameKreischer's first run at ski resort management came via Ski Resort Tycoon, a 2000 sim game that you can still purchase on Amazon for $5.95. According to Wikipedia, “A Yeti can also be seen in the game, and it can be found eating the guests.” My God, can you imagine the insurance bill?On the density of New England ski areasNew England is one of the most competitive ski markets on the planet. It's certainly one of the densest, with 100 ski areas stuffed into 71,988 square miles – that's an area small than any major western ski state. The six New England states are small (Maine occupies nearly half of the total square mileage), so they share the glory, but their size masks just how tightly they are clustered. Check this stat: the number of ski areas per square mile across the six New England states is more than four times that of Colorado and six times that of Utah:Of course, New England ski areas tend to measure far smaller than those of the West. But the point of this exercise is to underscore the sheer volume of choices available to the New England skier. Here's what Granite Gorge is competing against as it works to establish itself as a viable business:That means the ski area is fighting against heavies like Mount Snow, Okemo, Stratton, and Mount Sunapee for its local Keene market – and the Keene market is essentially Granite Gorge's only market. There's probably a place for this little knuckler to act as a new-skier assembly line and weekend hideout for families and teenage Park Bros, but there's probably not a tougher place in America to pull this off than southwest New Hampshire.On Granite Gorge's mountain bike park and better glade skiing Kreischer believes that Granite Gorge cannot survive as a winter-only business. Earlier this spring, he announced the construction of a downhill mountain bike park. You can track their progress via Instagram:As regular readers know, I don't cover MTB, but we discuss these new trails in the context of their potential to enhance the ski area's glade network. Very little of Granite Gorge's face has been cut with trails. The potential for glade development is huge, and this initial poke into the forest is an excellent start.On Highland bike parkKreischer and I briefly discuss Highland Bike Park in New Hampshire. This is the only lift-served MTB park in New England that doesn't also double as a ski area. It was, in fact, once a 700-vertical-foot ski area. Here's a circa 1987 trailmap:Highland closed for skiing in 1995, and re-opened as a mountain bike park at some point over the next dozen years. Bike people tell me that the place is one of the best-regarded MTB facilities in New England. Here's the current bike trailmap:There are no current plans to re-open the area for skiing. “While there have been rumors that limited ski operations could resume in the future, the park remains biking-only at this point,” according to New England Ski History. Highland is in a tough spot for skiing, lodged between Ragged and Gunstock, which both have high-speed lifts and far more vertical. Highland sits just over two miles off Interstate 93, however, and there could be room in the market for a terrain-park only mountain à la Woodward Park City. Loon is the current terrain park king of New Hampshire, but it's crowded and expensive. Imagine a parks paradise with $50 day tickets and $300 season passes. That could work.On the alarm beeping in the backgroundYou may notice an alarm beeping in the background during the latter half of the podcast. I thought this was on my end, and I planned to simply edit the noise out, since I'm listening most of the time. After the podcast, I came up the stairs toting a ladder, prepared to dismantle the fire alarm. My wife looked at me, baffled. “What beeping?” she asked. Well, it was on Keith's end. Hopefully he wasn't so devoted to the podcast that he let his house burn down while recording it. Though I doubt that. Maybe he is Batman and that was his Batman alarm alerting him to nearby crimes. Though frankly I'm not sure a superhero could have revived Granite Gorge in six months. So it was probably just his You're Awesome alarm going off. All part of the story here.On an assist from Pats PeakKeith followed up via email after our call to throw some credit to his contemporary at Pats Peak: “I was reflecting on our conversation last night and one huge thing I forgot to mention was Kris Blomback and the help from Pat's Peak. They were instrumental in giving us a patrol sled and some awesome rental equipment that was a big deal getting us going this season. Kris is an amazing guy and a great leader. When I listened to his podcast episode with you, his words of advice to me was virtually verbatim, which really showcases his honesty, class, and true passion for bolstering skiing in this region. I really want to thank Kris and the rest of the Pats team for their help and assistance bringing us back to being a feeder for the entire Southern NH region.”On New Hampshire skiingI am an enormous, unapologetic fan of New Hampshire skiing. The mountains are many and varied, each one distinct. I've hosted a number of New Hampshire resort leaders on the podcast, and I have conversations scheduled with Cranmore GM Ben Wilcox and Attitash GM Brandon Swartz later this year. I also recorded an episode with Dartmouth Skiway GM Mark Adamczyk earlier this week – you'll have that one soon. Here's what's in the catalog right now:* Loon Mountain GM Brian Norton – Nov. 14, 2022* Pats Peak GM Kris Blomback – Sept. 22, 2022* Ragged Mountain GM Erik Barnes – April 29, 2022* Whaleback Executive Director Jon Hunt – June 17, 2021* Waterville Valley President and GM Tim Smith – Feb. 23, 2021* Gunstock President and GM Tom Day – Jan. 13, 2021* Cannon Mountain GM John DeVivo – Oct. 12, 2020* Loon Mountain President and GM Jay Scambio – Feb. 7, 2020The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing in North America year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 51/100 in 2023, and number 437 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #130: Middlebury College Snowbowl GM Mike Hussey

Where Do Gays Retire Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 10, 2023 62:53

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on June 7. It dropped for free subscribers on June 10. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe for free below:WhoMike Hussey, General Manager of Middlebury College Snowbowl, VermontRecorded onMay 15, 2023About Middlebury SnowbowlClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Middlebury CollegeLocated in: Hancock, VermontYear founded: 1936Pass affiliations: Indy Pass Allied ResortReciprocal partners: NoneClosest neighboring ski areas: Sugarbush (38 minutes), Mad River Glen (43 minutes), Pico (45 minutes), Killington (49 minutes)Base elevation: 1,720 feetSummit elevation: 2,720 feetVertical drop: 1,000 feetSkiable Acres: 100 on-trail; 600+ woods and gladesAverage annual snowfall: 200 inchesTrail count: 17 (8 advanced/expert, 4 intermediate, 5 beginner) + 11 gladesLift count: 4 (1 fixed-grip quad [to replace Sheehan double for 2023-24 ski season], 2 triples, 1 carpet – view Lift Blog's inventory of Middlebury Snowbowl's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himI've held Michigan Wolverines football season tickets for the past 15 years. The team's 12-game schedule acts as a sort of life framework for three months each fall. Where the team goes, I often go: Oklahoma in 2025, Texas in 2027, Washington in 2028. Plus Ann Arbor, all the time, for home games. I like big games, ranked opponents, rivalries. This year's home schedule is a stinker: East Carolina, UNLV, Bowling Green, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State. To be a Michigan fan is to assume the boys will win those first six easily before a fistfight with the Buckeyes. In college football, big brand names get nearly all the glory nearly all the time.Skiing is a little bit like that. Ask your friend who skis three to 10 days per year where they go, and you'll likely get a list of familiars: Mammoth, Park City, Breck, Vail. In New England or New York, the list will be some mix of Stratton, Mount Snow, Okemo, Killington, Sugarbush, Hunter, Windham. All fine mountains, and all worthy of three-day Dan's discretionary skiing dollars. They will get his social media posts and elevator chats too. In skiing, as in college football, legacy and brand mean a hell of a lot.Which takes us to Middlebury Snowbowl (though you're probably wondering how). Being a thousand-vertical foot ski area in Vermont is a little like being the Rutgers football team in the Big 10. You know you're going to lose most of your games most of the time: Rutgers is 12-58 in Big 10 play since joining the conference in 2014. And no wonder: officials slotted the team in the East division, alongside blue chips Ohio State (69-6 in Big 10 play since 2014), Michigan (53-22), and Penn State (49-30). Rutgers is 1-26 against those three teams over that span (the one win was versus Michigan in 2014; yes, I was at that game; yes, it was clear that the Rutgers fans had not been there before).Vermont state highway 100 is the Big 10 East of New England skiing: Mount Snow, Okemo, Killington, Sugarbush, Mad River Glen, Stowe, and Smugglers' Notch all sit along or near this north-south route. So does Middlebury Snowbowl. Here's how they all stack up:It's all a little incongruous, this land of giants and speedbumps and not much in between. Skiers have shown little mercy for mid-sized ski areas in Vermont. Snow Valley, Plymouth Notch, and Maple Valley have all gone extinct. Ascutney, now a surface-lift bump, was once an 1,800-footer with a high-speed quad. Magic was shuttered for years before pinpointing a scrappy-rebel narrative upon which it could thrive. Saskadena Six and Quechee are both attached to larger entities who maintain the ski hills as guest and resident amenities. Even Bolton Valley missed a season in the late ‘90s during a problematic ownership transition period.Middlebury Snowbowl, of course, has survived since 1936 as a protectorate of Middlebury College, which owns the facility. But money-losing ski areas subsidized by larger entities are out of fashion. The world knows such arrangements are unnecessary; ski areas can and should be self-sustaining. See: Gunstock, Bogus Basin, Bridger Bowl, Mt. Ashland. Mike Hussey knows this, and he has a vision to make the Snowbowl a strong independent business. Oddly, the small ski area's proximity to giants may finally be a positive – as Killington and Sugarbush have driven peak-day lift ticket prices over $200, the Snowbowl has remained an affordable alternative that delivers a scaled-down but still substantial ski experience. Is this Middlebury's moment? I had to find out.What we talked aboutMiddlebury's huge increases in skier visits over the past few seasons; XC snowmaking at Rickert; miracle March; competing in a rapidly changing Vermont and why megapasses and consolidation have been good for most independent ski areas; Middlebury's parking problem; why Middlebury College owns a ski area; the coolest college graduation ceremony in skiing; Middlebury College 101; the relationship between the college and the ski area; whether the ski area does or can make money; a brief history of HKD Snowmakers; transforming Rikert from a locals' slidepath to a modern Nordic ski area; how the college's board of trustees reacted to suggestions that the school close down Rickert and Snowbowl; how Snowbowl lured students back by changing its season pass structure; the Sheehan chairlift upgrade; reflecting on the Worth Mountain lift upgrade to a triple and why Middlebury went with a quad this time; the importance of Skytrac; why Middlebury is introducing night-skiing and where that footprint will sit; why Middlebury keeps only a minimalist terrain park; navigating Act 250 approval; what's fueling Snowbowl's massive investment; potential future snowmaking and parking upgrades; Lake Pleiad; doing the math on Middlebury's massive acreage counts; glade culture; that wacky trailmap; expansion opportunities; so many season pass options; the season pass punch-card benefit; and the Indy Pass.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewSuddenly, Middlebury is booming. Skier visits popped 20 percent this past winter, after soaring 60 percent during the 2021-22 ski season. And while the college still subsidizes ski area operations, management is reinvesting with the hopes of reaching self-sufficiency long term. This summer, Middlebury will install night-skiing and replace the Sheehan double with a brand-new Skytrac quad.What's going on? Why is a thousand-footer jammed between Killington and Sugarbush exploding? Wasn't the Epkon Godzilla supposed to leave nothing but craters and a dozen super resorts as it bulldozed its way across New England?Skiers seem to be telling us that there is room in the marketplace for a ski area that acts like ski areas did for 80 years. Before $200 lift tickets. Before Colorado HQ. Before checklist tourism. Before the social media flex. Before chairlifts could load the population of Delaware into a single carrier.At Middlebury Snowbowl, a minivan filled with the six members of the Parker family of Hancock Vermont can roll into the parking lot on a weekend morning, pay rack rate for lift tickets, and ski all day without waiting in line. They can wander and explore and not get bored. Middlebury's trail network is limited by big-mountain Vermont standards, but there's plenty there. Especially if there's snow on the ground and the Parker clan can handle some light trees. The place sprawls over hundreds of acres, deceptively large.There's a desire and a demand for places like Middlebury Snowbowl right now. For something easier and cleaner and cheaper. More atmosphere and less circus. A day on skis that's just about the skiing.What I got wrongI described Vermont's Act 250 as a state law that governs how ski areas can develop. That's partially correct but somewhat misstates the purpose and intent of the law, which applies to land use and development as a whole across the state. From Vermont's official Natural Resources Board website:Act 250 (10 V.S.A. Chapter 151) is Vermont's land use and development law, enacted in 1970 at a time when Vermont was undergoing significant development pressure. The law provides a public, quasi-judicial process for reviewing and managing the environmental, social and fiscal consequences of major subdivisions and developments in Vermont. It assures that larger developments compliment Vermont's unique landscape, economy and community needs. …The effects of Act 250 are most clear when one compares Vermont's pristine landscape with most other states. Protecting Vermont's environmental integrity and the strength of our communities benefits everyone, forming a strong basis for both our economy and our quality of life.The Act 250 process balances environmental and community concerns; a tall order which at times can be complex. Developers, engineers and consultants best navigate the Act 250 process by planning their project, from the earliest stages, with the 10 criteria in mind.As a result of Act 250 and the planning process, project designs, landscaping plans and color schemes fit the landscape. Act 250 has helped Vermont retain its unsurpassed scenic qualities while undergoing the substantial growth of the last 5 decades. Act 250 is also critical because it requires development to conform to municipal and regional plans and Vermont's land use planning goals.The Act 250 criteria have protected many important natural and cultural resources — water and air quality, wildlife habitat and agricultural soils (just to name a few) — that have long been valued by Vermonters and that are an important part of the state's economy. No single law can protect all of Vermont's unique attributes — but Act 250 plays a critical role in maintaining the quality of life that Vermonters enjoy.The law, for all its benefits, is often viewed as a regulatory burden that considerably stunted the potential of Vermont's ski areas over the long term. The late Chris Diamond examined the impacts of Act 250 at length in his book, Ski Inc. 2020:In short order, the ski area operators became the bad guys, the most visible incarnation of the capitalist beast, to these newcomers [in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s]. Over time, the enmity – or, at a minimum, distrust – was formalized in a regulatory structure that made day-to-day business life incredibly difficult. Capitalism brings a certain messiness and unpredictability, something the new political majority would not tolerate. Vermont basically tried to have it both ways: a healthy economy and some of the nation's most restrictive land-use laws. Given a ski area's impact on the natural and social environment, they were disproportionately impacted. Water-quality regulations made it impossible or extraordinarily expensive to expand snowmaking operations. Other criteria under the state's landmark environmental law, Act 250, were aimed at growth issues. The permitting process gave significant influence to those representing the status quo. So it shouldn't be surprising to note that, generally, the status quo was protected. For most rural areas, that meant zero or slow growth. An unintended but inevitable result: As decades passed and people moved on, the population base began to shrink. …My view is that the current situation would be less dire if the state's ski communities were as economically vigorous as their Western counterparts. …During the ‘90s, growth in most of Vermont's ski towns ground to a halt. A notable exception was Okemo, where the Mueller family managed a significant terrain expansion, a second base area, and a related real-estate development. Although their operating competence and focus on service were largely the catalysts, they also benefited from their location in the former manufacturing-based economy of Ludlow. Here the status quo was arguably more focused on economic survival. The Muellers also proved themselves exceptionally skilled at navigating the permit process.The bigger challenge for most Vermont resorts remained water for snowmaking. Most have finally managed to navigate their way to a solution and now offer a competitive product, albeit at great cost and with significant delays. (For Mount Snow that process took over 30 years). With that, and all the other changes that are occurring within the ski realm, I do believe they face a brighter future. Vermont ski towns will continue to evolve into important economic centers. But in my view, they will not be what they might have been.Diamond was a smart guy, and ran Mount Snow and Steamboat over the course of several decades. Ski Inc. 2020 and its companion book, Ski Inc. are must-reads for anyone who enjoys this newsletter. But while I agree with much of Diamond's analysis above, I floated this notion of Act 250-as-development killer to a prominent Vermont resort operator last year. That individual waved their hand toward the base area we were sitting in and the stacks of condos rolling up the hillside. “Well, we built all this,” they said. And Vermont does offer considerably more ski-in, ski-out accommodations than, say, New York. Killington is finally moving ahead with their base village, and the state is home to the best and most-advanced lift systems in the Northeast.So something's working there. The truth, as always, is probably somewhere in between the extremes of the build-it-all and build-nothing-at-all fundamentalists.Why you should ski Middlebury SnowbowlEvery year, more megapasses move into the marketplace. But neither Vail nor Alterra has added a new ski area in the Northeast since Windham joined the Ikon Pass in 2020 (Seven Springs, which joined the Epic Pass in 2022, really serves the Mid-Atlantic and Midwest). It's fair to assume that more skiers are trying to cram into an unchanging number of ski areas each season. And while the mountains can somewhat mitigate peak-day crowds with advanced reservations, lift-ticket limitations, and higher-capacity chairlifts, skiers also have a crowd-control mechanism at their disposal: go somewhere else.Savvy Northeast skiers know how to people-dodge. Sure, go to Killington, Sugarbush, Stowe, Loon, and Cannon. They are all spectacular. But on weekends, unlatch the secret weapons on the ski-area utility belt: Plattekill, Berkshire East, Elk, Black Mountain in New Hampshire and Black Mountain of Maine. Excellent ski areas, all, lacking their competitors' size and crowds but none of their thrill and muscle.Middlebury Snowbowl belongs on this list. True, 1,000 feet of vert makes Middlebury the 16th-tallest ski area in the state of Vermont. And unlike people, the ski area can't just buy a bigger pickup truck to compensate. But 1,000 vertical feet is a good ski run. Especially when it's fed by 200 inches of average annual snowfall that doesn't get shredded by Epkonitron hordes trampling off high-speed chairlifts.At some point, each skier has to decide: will they ski the same dozen ski areas they've always skied and that everyone else they know has always skied, or will they roam a bit, taste test, see if they need that high-speed lift as much as they think you do. Or do they give that up – even if just for a day – to view the snow from a different angle?Podcast NotesOn Vermont being a sparsely populated stateDespite its outsized presence in the U.S. ski industry – the state typically ranks fourth in skier visits behind Colorado, California, and Utah – Vermont is tiny by just about any measure. It's the seventh-smallest U.S. state by size and the second-smallest by population, with around 650,000 residents (Wyoming is last with just 580,000). This surprised me, mostly because the state is so close to so many population centers (New England is home to nearly 15 million people; New York to another 20.5 million).On the U.S. ski industry's massive investmentHussey and I briefly discuss the U.S. ski industry's massive capital investment for this past season. The exact number was $812.4 million, according to the National Ski Areas Association.On that punchcardMiddlebury Snowbowl offers one of the best season pass perks of any ski area in New England: each pass includes a punch card good for four lift tickets. This solves a season passholder's greatest irritation: dragging along cheap-ass procrastinating friends who can't be bothered to buy anything in advance but also don't want to donate a lung to pay for a Saturday lift ticket. Or the friend who has an Ikon Pass and is horrified by the idea of paying for another day of skiing beyond that massive investment. The card is transferrable and has no blackouts. On the Indy Pass Allied and XC programsThe Indy Pass has done a marvelous job adapting to a complex industry. This can be a bit confusing, as Hussey outlines in the podcast – some Indy Pass holders show up to Middlebury expecting “free”* lift tickets. But the ski area is part of the Allied Resorts program, which gets skiers half off on non-holiday weekdays, and 25 percent off at other times. I analyzed the Allied program at length here.Lift tickets to Rickert Nordic Center, which Hussey also manages, are included on the Indy Pass and the drastically discounted Indy XC Pass. I discussed that pass here.*Megapass lift tickets are also characterized as being “free,” but that is incorrect: the passholder paid for the pass in advance, and is simply redeeming a product they've pre-purchased.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing all year round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 49/100 in 2023, and number 435 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Brattleboro, Vermont With Scott Heller

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 13, 2023 61:38

Scott and Dave met in May 1991 while Scott was at Mount Snow in Vermont training for a triathlon and Dave was directing the Mountain Bike School there. Scott was living in NYC at the time and Dave is from Vermont. Scott had an early career in marketing & advertising, was running a mail order catalog business and was an amateur competitive triathlete, Dave was a pro ski patroller at Mount Snow during the winter months and a pro mountain biker in the off-season. Previous to Mount Snow, Dave was a professional chef with much experience in the hospitality field. Population: Brattleboro has a population of 12,046 people.Cost of living: The cost of living in Brattleboro is higher than the national average but lower than the cost of living in other parts of Vermont.Real estate: The median home price in Brattleboro is $325,000.Climate: Brattleboro has a temperate climate with four distinct seasons. The average temperature in January is 22 degrees Fahrenheit, and the average in July is 74 degrees Fahrenheit.Geography: Brattleboro is located on the Connecticut River in the southern part of Vermont.The LGBTQ+ community: Brattleboro is a welcoming and inclusive community for LGBTQ+ people. There are many LGBTQ+-friendly businesses and organizations in Brattleboro, and the city has a strong sense of community.Crime and safety: Brattleboro is a safe and comfortable place to live. The crime rate in Brattleboro is low, and the city has a strong sense of community safety.Here is some additional information about Brattleboro:Brattleboro is a popular tourist destination. The town is home to a number of art galleries, museums, and shops.Brattleboro is also a popular destination for outdoor recreation. The town is located near a number of hiking trails, biking trails, and swimming holes.Brattleboro is a great place to retire. The town is quiet and peaceful, and the cost of living is relatively low.Brattleboro is also a great place to raise a family. The town has a robust public school system, and there are a number of family-friendly activities and events. Further background: https://www.frogmeadow.com/more-info/about-ushistory/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/gay-brattleboro-vt/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/rock-river-vermont/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/more-info/recent-pressmedia/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/community-partners/ https://www.gayrealestate.com/news/usa/vermont/brattleboro/gay-realtor-brattleboro-vermont-a-vibrant-gay-arts-community.html https://vermontbiz.com/news/2023/january/02/vermont-once-again-tops-list-top-moving-destinations-2022 Support the showIf you enjoy these podcasts, please make a donation by clicking the coffee cup on any page of our website www.wheredogaysretire.com. Each cup of coffee costs $5 and goes towards bringing you these podcasts in the future.

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Brattleboro, Vermont With Scott Heller

Where Do Gays Retire Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 13, 2023 61:39

Scott and Dave met in May 1991 while Scott was at Mount Snow in Vermont training for a triathlon and Dave was directing the Mountain Bike School there. Scott was living in NYC at the time and Dave is from Vermont. Scott had an early career in marketing & advertising, was running a mail order catalog business and was an amateur competitive triathlete, Dave was a pro ski patroller at Mount Snow during the winter months and a pro mountain biker in the off-season. Previous to Mount Snow, Dave was a professional chef with much experience in the hospitality field. Population: Brattleboro has a population of 12,046 people.Cost of living: The cost of living in Brattleboro is higher than the national average but lower than the cost of living in other parts of Vermont.Real estate: The median home price in Brattleboro is $325,000.Climate: Brattleboro has a temperate climate with four distinct seasons. The average temperature in January is 22 degrees Fahrenheit, and the average in July is 74 degrees Fahrenheit.Geography: Brattleboro is located on the Connecticut River in the southern part of Vermont.The LGBTQ+ community: Brattleboro is a welcoming and inclusive community for LGBTQ+ people. There are many LGBTQ+-friendly businesses and organizations in Brattleboro, and the city has a strong sense of community.Crime and safety: Brattleboro is a safe and comfortable place to live. The crime rate in Brattleboro is low, and the city has a strong sense of community safety.Here is some additional information about Brattleboro:Brattleboro is a popular tourist destination. The town is home to a number of art galleries, museums, and shops.Brattleboro is also a popular destination for outdoor recreation. The town is located near a number of hiking trails, biking trails, and swimming holes.Brattleboro is a great place to retire. The town is quiet and peaceful, and the cost of living is relatively low.Brattleboro is also a great place to raise a family. The town has a robust public school system, and there are a number of family-friendly activities and events. Further background: https://www.frogmeadow.com/more-info/about-ushistory/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/gay-brattleboro-vt/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/rock-river-vermont/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/more-info/recent-pressmedia/ https://www.frogmeadow.com/community-partners/ https://www.gayrealestate.com/news/usa/vermont/brattleboro/gay-realtor-brattleboro-vermont-a-vibrant-gay-arts-community.html Support the showIf you enjoy these podcasts, please make a donation by clicking the coffee cup on any page of our website www.wheredogaysretire.com. Each cup of coffee costs $5 and goes towards bringing you these podcasts in the future.If you or you know someone who is interested in being a guest on the podcast, please contact me at mark@wheredogaysretire.com. Please join our Where Do Gays Retire Facebook group at

new york city real lgbtq cost crime vermont previous fahrenheit heller showif brattleboro connecticut river brattleboro vermont mount snow

Ski Moms Go Behind the Scenes with Cassie Cohen, Mad River Glen Snow Reporter

Ski Moms Fun Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 6, 2023 34:28

Check out our Ski Mom's Mother's Day gift guide!Subscribe to our Apres Ski Podcast here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1882919/supportIn this episode Nicole and Sarah host Cassie Cohen, the Snow Reporter at Mad River Glen in Fayston, Vermont. Cassie started skiing as a toddler with her mom at Mount Snow and has been skiing as long as she can remember. Cassie gives us a look at her typical day as the Snow Reporter at Mad River Glen, starting at 5 AM! She loves getting to ski while also having the opportunity to write and be creative.Cassie tells us about what we can expect to find at Mad River Glen - including their famous single chair. Mad River Glen has a full service ski school and rental department. There is a great lodge that includes a cafeteria and Stark's Pub. And The Birdcage is an on mountain lodge and dining option. And they have Day Care!It was so interesting to get Cassie's firsthand views into the life of a snow reporter. And she does not ski every run every day, but she does get out on the mountain every day. Mad River Glen is not on Ikon or Epic, they do have some great ski pass deals (we love the mid-week pass). Mad River Glen is skier only. Keep up with the Latest from Mad River Glen:Website: https://www.madriverglen.com/Snow Report: https://www.madriverglen.com/conditions/Instagram: https://instagram.com/madriverglenJoin the Ski Moms Fun Community! Follow us on Instagram @skimomsfunCheck out the Ski Moms Fun Store at www.skimomsfun.comContact us sarah@skimomsfun.com

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Podcast #117: Holiday Valley President and General Manager Dennis Eshbaugh

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2023 75:21

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and to support my work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.WhoDennis Eshbaugh, President and General Manager of Holiday Valley, New YorkRecorded onFebruary 13, 2023About Holiday ValleyClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Win-Sum Ski Corp, which Holiday Valley's website describes as “a closely held corporation owned by a small number of stockholders.”Year founded: 1958Pass affiliations: NoneLocated in: Ellicottville, New YorkClosest neighboring ski areas: Holimont (3 minutes), Kissing Bridge (38 minutes), Cockaigne (45 minutes), Buffalo Ski Center (48 minutes), Swain (1 hour, 15 minutes), Peek'N Peak (1 hour, 15 minutes)Base elevation: 1,500 feetSummit elevation: 2,250 feetVertical drop: 750 feetSkiable Acres: 290Average annual snowfall: 180 inchesTrail count: 84 (4 glades, 1 expert, 21 advanced, 21 intermediate, 32 beginner, 5 terrain parks) – the official glade number is a massive undercount, as nearly all of the trees at Holiday Valley are well-spaced and skiable (the trailmap below notes that “woods are available to expert skiers and riders and are not open, closed, or marked”).Lift count: 13 (4 high-speed quads, 7 fixed-grip quads, 2 surface lifts) – a high-speed six-pack will replace the Mardis Gras high-speed quad this sumer.Uphill capacity: 23,850 people per hourWhy I interviewed himWestern New York is one of the most important ski markets in America. Orbiting a vast wilderness zone of hilly lake-effect are the cities of Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, and, farther out but still relevant to the market, Pittsburgh. That's more than 20 million people, as Eshbaugh notes in our conversation. They all need somewhere to ski. They don't have big mountains, but they do have options. In Western New York alone: Peek'n Peak, Cockaigne, Kissing Bridge, Buffalo Ski Club, Bristol, Hunt Hollow, Swain, Holiday Valley, Holimont, and a half-dozen-ish surface-lift outfits hyper-focused on beginners.It's one of the world's great new-skier factories. Skiers learn here and voyage to the Great Out There. From these metro regions, skiers can get anywhere else quickly. At least four daily flights connect Cleveland and Denver – you can leave your house in the evening and catch first chair at Keystone or Copper the following morning. But sometimes local is good, especially when you start stacking kids in the backseat and your airplane bill ticks past four digits.Set the GPS for Holiday Valley. In a region of ski areas, this is a ski resort. The terrain is varied and expansive. Downtown Ellicottville, a Rust Belt industrial refugee that has remade itself as one of the East's great resort towns, is minutes away. The mountain is easy enough to get to (in the way that anything off-interstate is an easy-ish pain in the ass requiring some patience with two-lane state highways and their poke-along drivers). And lift tickets are affordable, topping out at $87 for an eight-hour session.As a business, Holiday Valley is one of the most well-regarded independent ski areas in the country, on the level of Wachusett or Whitefish or Smugglers' Notch. But it wasn't the inevitable King of Western New York. When Eshbaugh showed up in 1975, the place was a backwater, with a handful of double chairs and T-bars and a couple dozen runs. It took decades to build the machine. But for at least the past 20 years, Holiday Valley has led all New York ski areas in annual visits, keeping company with New England monsters Mount Snow and Sunday River at around half a million skiers per season. That's incredible. I wanted to learn how they did it, and how they keep doing it, even as the ski world evolves rapidly around them.What we talked aboutThe wild Western New York winter; what's driving record business to Holiday Valley; the busiest ski area in New York State; learning from Sam Walton in the best possible way; competing with Colorado; the history and remaking of Ellicotville; from ski school instructor to resort president; staying at one employer for nearly five decades; who owns Holiday Valley and how committed they are to independence; a brief history of the ski area; setting season pass prices at $1,000 in the megapass era – “we have 10,000 buyers of these other pass programs as well”; the importance of night-skiing; the bygone days of skiing all-nighters; why Holiday Valley hasn't joined the Epic, Ikon, or Indy Passes, and whether it ever would; thoughts on reciprocal coalitions and why the Ski Cooper partnership went away; a picture of Holiday Valley in the mid-1970s; the landmine of too much real-estate development; going deep on the new Mardi Gras Express six-pack; why they're building the lift over two years; how and why Holiday Valley self-installs chairlifts (one of the few ski areas to do so); remembering 20-minute double-chair rides on Mardi Gras; the surprising potential destination of the Mardi Gras quad; long-term potential upgrades for Sunrise, Eagle, Cindy's, and Chute; the next lift that Holiday Valley will likely upgrade to a detachable; why Holiday Valley upgraded the 20-year-old Yodeler fixed-grip quad to a detachable quad two years ago; how much more it costs to maintain a detachable lift than a fixed-grip lift, and whether Holiday Valley could one day get to an all-high-speed fleet; “you have to keep a balance between what your customer base wants and what your customer base can support”; Dave McCoy's thumbprint on Mammoth Mountain; potential expansion opportunities; where the next all-new liftline could sit; potential glade expansion; remembering when insurance carriers were paranoid of glade-skiing and why they backed off that notion; and why Holiday Valley implemented RFID but didn't install gates.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewHoliday Valley is one of the few large regional destination ski areas that continues to stand alone. No pass allegiance. No reciprocal deals. The pass is good here and only here.And it works. Like Wolf Creek or Baker or Mount Rose or Smugglers' Notch or Bretton Woods, Holiday Valley is proving that the one-mountain model isn't dead just yet. Even with a headliner season pass that runs $1,049*, just $30 cheaper than the good-at-63-mountains Ikon Pass and a couple hundred dollars more than the equally expansive Epic Pass. Many of the mountain's passholders do also purchase these passes, Eshbaugh told me, but they keep buying the Holiday Valley Pass too.Why? My guess is the constant, conspicuous investment. A new high-speed quad to replace a 20-year-old fixed-grip quad in 2021. Holiday Valley's first six-pack – to replace a 27-year-old high-speed quad – next season. And the place is pristine. Everything looks new, even if it isn't. The lodges – and it feels like there are lodges everywhere – are expansive and attractive. Snowguns all over. I haven't walked around the joint opening closet doors or anything, but I bet it I did, I'd find the towels sorted by color and shelves labelled accordingly.In the era of sprawling and standardized, there is still a lot to like in this hyper-local approach to ski resort management. Eshbaugh is in no hurry to chase his peers over the horizon. He admits there may be vast treasure and security waiting there, but there may also be a bottomless void. Holiday Valley and its eclectic and somewhat secretive group of owners will wait and see. In the meantime, we may as well enjoy the place for what it is.*Holiday Valley offered several more affordable pass options for the 2022-23 ski season, including a nights-only version for $504, a Sundays pass for $313, a pass good for 10 weekdays or evenings for $285, and a nine-use night pass for $213.Questions I wish I'd askedI'd wanted to get a bit into Holimont, and ask my usual stupid question about whether the two resorts had ever discussed some sort of lift or ski connection. From a pure engineering standpoint, it wouldn't be an especially difficult project: the hill that rises from the far side of the Holiday Valley parking lot is the backside of Holimont. You would just need trails down from the top of Holimont's Exhibition Express or Sunset double to the bottom of Holiday Valley's Tannenbaum lift, then a return lift up the mountain to Holimont. Here's a crappy concept sketch I put together:Of course, there are problems with my elaborate plans, starting with the fact that I have no idea who owns the property that I just designated for new trails and chairlifts. The bigger issue, however, is that Holimont is a private ski club, and it's closed to the public on weekends and holidays. That won't change. But if you're curious, you can roll up and buy a lift ticket midweek, which is pretty cool. The place is substantial, with 56 trails and eight lifts, including a high-speed quad:A union of these two ski areas seems highly improbable. But it would create an enormous ski area, and it was fun to fantasize about for a few minutes.Why you should ski Holiday ValleyHoliday Valley skis far larger than the trailmap would suggest. Rolling from Spruce Lake over to Snowpine can take all morning. There's lots of little offshoots, quirks and nooks to explore. Glades everywhere. Lifts everywhere. Most runs are substantially shorter than the advertised 750 vertical feet, but they cling to the fall line, and there are a lot of them: 84 trails feels like an undercount.I said in the podcast that Holiday Valley felt like a half dozen or so ski areas stitched together, and it does. Creekside and Sunrise feel like that town bump, with gentle wide-open meadows. Morningstar is big broadsides, park kids and a speedy lift. Yodeler and Chute are raw and steep, tight glades between groomed-out boomers. Eagle is restless and wild and underdeveloped. And Tannenbaum is a sort-of idyll, a rich glen dense with towering pines, a detachable lift line threading low and fast through the trees.It's just a very good ski area, with everything except a headline vertical drop. But the sprawling lift system makes fastlaps easy, and if the snow is deep, pretty much all the trees between the trails are skiable. The place is likely to wear you out before you wear it out, and then you can head down the street for a beer and a pillow.Podcast NotesOn operating hoursI guessed on the podcast that Holiday Valley was open more hours per week than most other ski areas in the country. Their regular schedule is 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday through Wednesday, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. Thursday and Friday, and 8:30 a.m. to 10 p.m. Saturday and Sunday. That adds up to 89 hours per week. I'm not sure exactly where that ranks among U.S. American ski areas, but its in the upper five percentile.On Mountains of DistinctionEshbaugh mentions the Mountains of Distinction program. This is a discount program started by Jiminy Peak before the megapass craze. It currently includes Jiminy, Wachusett, Cranmore, Holiday Valley, Bromley, and Crystal Mountain, Michigan. Passholders at any of these ski areas generally get half off on weekdays and $15 off on weekends and holidays at any of the other resorts. The program was far larger at one time, but it's lost many members – such as Seven Springs – to consolidation.On the incredible migrating chairliftI mentioned a chairlift at Hunt Hollow – a ski area that operates on the same public/private model as Holimont – that relocated one of Snowbird's old chairs. The chair was Snowbird's old Little Cloud double, which they removed in 2012 to make way for a high-speed quad. You can read more about it here (pages 13 to 14). Lift Blog documented the lift when it stood at Snowbird, and then again at Hunt Hollow.On lost ski areas of Western New YorkIn the podcast intro, I mention a pair of onetime competitors to Holiday Valley that failed to evolve in the same way and went bust. One was Wing Hollow, a 750-footer just 20 minutes south of Holiday Valley that is now best known for a never-solved 1975 double-murder. Here's the 1978 trailmap, showing two T-bars and a double chair - about the same setup that Holiday Valley had in that period.I also mention Bluemont, which was just half an hour north of Holiday Valley and claimed an 800-foot-vertical drop, a double chair, a T-bar, and two ropetows. Here it is around 1980:The land that Bluemont sat on is currently for sale for $5.95 million. I wrote about this in May:Man I don't know what happens to these places. Eight hundred vertical feet would make this the second-tallest ski area in Western New York, after Bristol, and poof. Just gone. NELSAP says that the last investors “never received enough capital to get their idea off the ground.” The chairlifts are apparently long gone. Who knows if you would even be able to build on the land if you owned it – everything is impossible these days, especially in New York. But here it is if you have the money and the gumption to try.These were just the two largest of many lost ski areas in Western New York. You can poke around the lost New York ski areas page on the New England Lost Ski Areas project for more info.On Holiday Valley's evolutionEshbaugh talks about the deliberate way they've built out Holiday Valley over the decades. The oldest trailmap I can find for the ski area is from 1969 – 11 years after the resort opened, and six years before Eshbaugh arrived. It shows what is currently the area from Mardi Gras over to Tannenbaum, including Yodeler and Chute:The mountain added the first Cindy's lift – a double chair – in 1978. Here's the trailmap circa 1981 - Cindy's is lift 3:Morning Star – a triple – arrived in 1983. The Snowpine double came the following year. This circa 1988 trailmap shows both (Morning Star is lift 5; Snowpine lift 6), and also teases the Eagle quad, which was slated to open the following year (it did, but as a quad, rather than as the triple teased below):The Sunrise quad rose in 1992. Here it is on a circa 1997 trailmap (lift 10):The Spruce Lake quad arrived for the 2007-08 season (lift 11):Which basically takes us to modern Holiday Valley, though the ski area continues to upgrade lifts regularly. Impressive as this growth has been, I don't think they're anywhere near finished.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 13/100 in 2023, and number 399 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Tee Box Talk Ep. 38 • Phishing Attack, Full Swing, Dual-Trivia, and Getting Gym Shamed

Tee Box Talk

Play Episode Play 30 sec Highlight Listen Later Jan 12, 2023 65:00

Welcome to Tee Box Talk • Episode 38! In this episode, Andrew recaps his annual trip to Mount Snow, Vermont, Will expresses his deep hatred for Vail Resorts, and Josh reflects on his 3 day indoor-hiatus battling Meta & a major phishing incident. Will and Josh reminisce on their skateboarding days at Skaters Edge, Junction, Rye Airfield, Rad, and other local New England skate staples. Andrew turns the tables bringing some fun golf facts to share and the team talks the release date and opinions on the new, upcoming Netflix original, "Full Swing." Featuring Brooks, JT, Rory, Spieth, DJ and many other professional golfers. NFL playoffs are here, and Andrew finally has a chance to air some patriots frustration out. Not to mention, will the Detroit Lions be a free agency landing spot for players this off-season?Andrew's Tee Box Trivia is back, with a MAJOR prize on the line. Tune in to find out who takes home the gold. Planet Fitness is low-key shaming Andrew, Will discusses the most satisfying thing in the world, and Josh can't communicate with his own father with a TV in the room. All this and more on Episode 38 of Tee Box Talk!Tee Box Talk is presented by OMADA GOLF. Segments Include: Weekend Round-Up, Golf, Football, Trivia, and Stand-up.OMADA Golf InstagramOMADA Golf TikTokTeeBoxTalk InstagramTeeBoxTalk TikTokFor full video-cast episodes, please check out the OMADA GOLF YouTube Channel!Thank you for listening! Please feel free to rate, review, and drive feedback our way. Don't forget to send us segment ideas for a chance to be featured.Cheers!- Josh, Will, & Andrew

Podcast #110: Worcester Telegram & Gazette Snowsports Columnist Shaun Sutner

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 24, 2022 102:20

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Dec. 24. It dropped for free subscribers on Dec. 27. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription.WhoShaun Sutner, snowsports columnist for the Worcester Telegram & Gazette and Telegram.comRecorded onNovember 21, 2022About Shaun SutnerShaun is a skier, a writer, and a journalist based in Worcester, Massachusetts. For the past 18 years, he's been pumping out a snowsports column from Thanksgiving to April. For the past two years, he's joined me on The Storm Skiing Podcast to rap about it. You should follow Shaun on social media to stay locked into his work:Why I interviewed himI've often said that the best interviews are with people who don't have bosses. That's true. Mostly. But not exclusively. Because journalists are just as good. And that's because they possess many attributes crucial to holding an interesting conversation: on-the-ground experience, the ability to tell a story, and a commitment to truth. Really. That is the whole point of the job. Listen to the Storm Skiing Podcasts with Eric Wilbur, Jackson Hogen, or Jason Blevins. They are among the best of the 122 episodes I've published before today. It's a different gig from the running-a-mountain-and-making-you-want-to-ski-that-mountain post that 75 percent of my guests hold. And these writers deliver a different kind of conversation, and one that enriches The Storm immensely.I'd like to host more ski journalists, but there just aren't that many of them. It's a weird fact of America and skiing that there are far more ski areas than there are American ski journalists. The NSAA lists 473 active ski areas. NASJA (the North American Snowsports Journalists Association) counts far fewer active members. The NBA, by contrast, has 30 teams and perhaps thousands of reporters covering them around the world. There's a lot more happening in skiing than there are paid observers to keep track of it all, is my point here.But there are a few. And Sutner is one of the real pros – one who's been skiing New England for most of his life, and writing about it for decades. His column is enlightened and interesting, essential reading for the entire Northeast. We had a great conversation last year, and we agreed to make it an annual thing.What we talked aboutWell I still can't pronounce “Worcester,” but we didn't discuss it this time which thank God; opening day vibes at Mount Snow; comparing last year's days-skied goal to reality; that Uphill Bro life and chewing up all our pow Brah; surveying the different approaches to New England uphill access; cross-country skiing and the opportunity of the Indy Pass; skiing in NYC; the countless ski areas of Quebec; Tremblant, overrated?; Le Massif; pass quivers; the importance of racing and race leagues to recreational skiing; why the rise of freeskiing hasn't killed ski racing; Sutner's long-running snowsports column; the importance of relationships in journalism; the Wachusett MACHINE; Sutner defends the honor of Ski Ward, my least-favorite ski area; the legacy of Sutner's brother Adam, former executive at Vail, Jackson Hole, and Crystal, who passed away suddenly last year; reaction to PGRI purchasing Jay Peak; what's next for Burke?; the future of Gunstock; Mount Sunapee crowding; Crotched, Attitash, and Wildcat's 2021-22 struggles; what the Epic Day Pass says about Vail's understanding of New Hampshire; whether Vail's pay increases and lift ticket sales limits will be enough to fix the company's operational issues in New Hampshire; the impact of Kanc 8 on Loon and what that could mean for new lifts at Stowe and Mount Snow; New England's lift renaissance; eight-packs and redistributing skiers; let's play Fantasy Ski Resort owner with Sugarloaf; the investment binge at Loon; high-speed double chairs; will Magic ever get Black Quad live?; the rebuilding of Catamount; a New England lift wishlist; Berkshire East; fake vertical; Smuggs' lift fleet; the future of Big Squaw; The Balsams; Whaleback; Granite Gorge; and Tenney.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewWell the intent was to push this podcast out alongside the debut of Sutner's first column of the year, on Thanksgiving Day. I, uh, missed that target. But I'll fix that whole timing bit, and you can expect a Sutner appearance on The Storm Skiing Podcast every Thanksgiving week for as long as he's interested in doing it.What I got wrong* I noted in the podcast that it was a 15-minute drive from Mountain Creek to High Point Cross Country Ski Center in New Jersey – it's closer to half an hour.* Sutner and I referenced Seven Brothers at Loon as an unfinished lift. That was true when we recorded this podcast on Nov. 21, but the lift opened on Dec. 17.* Sutner referenced a New England lift project that he knew about but that was not public yet – it's public now, and you can read about it here.* Shaun referred to a “little-known” summit T-bar at Sugarloaf. It must be a really well-kept secret, because I can't find any reference to it, now or in the past.Why you should read Sutner's columnBecause what I wrote last year is still true:Because it's focused, intelligent, researched, fact-checked, spell-checked, and generally just the sort of professional-level writing that is increasingly subsumed by the LOLing babble of the emojisphere. That's fine – everyone is lost in the scroll. But as the pillars of ski journalism burn and topple around us, it's worth supporting whatever's left. Gannett, the parent company of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette, has imposed fairly stringent paywalls on his work. While I think these local papers are best served by offering a handful of free articles per month, the paper is worth supporting if it's your local – in the same way you might buy a local ski pass to complement your Epkon Pass. Good, consistent writing is not so easy to find. Sutner delivers. Support his craft.I wish there was one place where all of Sutner's columns were collected, but the reality of being part of a larger entity is that your work gets mashed together with everything else. Here are direct links to Sutner's columns so far this season:* Skiing Vail Remains a Treasured Rocky Mountain Experience* Plenty of Updates and Upgrades have Crotched Mountain Resort Thriving in New Hampshire* Key Improvements Signal Strong Seasons Ahead for Attitash, Wildcat Ski Areas* World Cup Ski Racing Continues to Thrive at KillingtonSutner's column tends to be less-newsy, more focused on the long-term than the what-just-happened? But, thanks to decades of experience and a deep well of sources, he can fire off a breaking news story in a hurry when he needs to. Earlier this month, for example, he turned around this dispatch about Wachusett's sudden cancellation of its volunteer Ski Patrol program – known locally as “Rangers” – in just a few hours:Wachusett Mountain Ski Area ended its volunteer Ranger program at the start of the ski and snowboard season last month in an unexpected move that could have safety consequences on the mountain's busy slopes, at least in the short term. The ski area apparently was forced into ending or suspending the program due to an investigation by the state attorney general's office into whether treating the Rangers as volunteers violates state labor laws. A spokeswoman for the AG's office declined to comment on whether the office is investigating Wachusett.The case could have national ramifications in the ski industry, where more than 600 ski areas across the country use volunteer ski patrollers under the umbrella of the nonprofit National Ski Patrol, as well as volunteers similar to Rangers. Read the full story here:Podcast Notes* Sutner and I discussed Wachusett quite a bit, and specifically my podcast interview with resort President Jeff Crowley from last year:* We also had a long discussion about Ski Ward, which stemmed from this write-up I published in February:Ski Ward, 25 miles southwest, makes Nashoba Valley look like Aspen. A single triple-chair rising 220 vertical feet. A T-bar beside that. Some beginner surface lifts lower down. Off the top three narrow trails that are steep for approximately six feet before leveling off for the run-out back to the base. It was no mystery why I was the only person over the age of 14 skiing that evening.Normally my posture at such community- and kid-oriented bumps is to trip all over myself to say every possible nice thing about its atmosphere and mission and miraculous existence in the maw of the EpKonasonics. But this place was awful. Like truly unpleasant. My first indication that I had entered a place of ingrained dysfunction was when I lifted the safety bar on the triple chair somewhere between the final tower and the exit ramp and the liftie came bursting out of his shack like he'd just caught me trying to steal his chickens. “The sign is there,” he screamed, pointing frantically at the “raise bar here” sign jutting up below the top station just shy of unload. At first I didn't realize he was talking to me and so I ignored him and this offended him to the point where he – and this actually happened – stopped the chairlift and told me to come back up the ramp so he could show me the sign. I declined the opportunity and skied off and away and for the rest of the evening I waited until I was exactly above his precious sign before raising the safety bar.All night, though, I saw this b******t. Large, aggressive, angry men screaming – screaming – at children for this or that safety-bar violation. The top liftie laid off me once he realized I was a grown man, but it was too late. Ski Ward has a profoundly broken customer-service culture, built on bullying little kids on the pretext of lift safety. Someone needs to fix this. Now.Look, I am not anti-lift bar. I put it down every time, unless I am out West and riding with some version of Studly Bro who is simply too f*****g cool for such nonsense. But that was literally my 403rd chairlift ride of the season and my 2,418th since I began tracking ski stats on my Slopes app in 2018. Never have I been lectured over the timing of my safety-bar raise. So I was surprised. But if Ski Ward really wants to run their chairlifts with the rulebook specificity of a Major League Baseball game, all they have to do is say, “Excuse me, Sir, can you please wait to get to the sign before raising your bar next time?” That would have worked just as well, and would have saved them this flame job. For a place that caters to children, they need to do much, much better.As I'm wont to do, I followed that write-up with casual Ward-bashing on Twitter. Sutner took exception to this, saying that I was oversimplifying it and working on too small a sample size. Which, fair enough. He further defends the ski area's honor in our pod, though frankly I remain salty about the place.* Sutner spoke at length about his brother Adam, a member of Crystal Mountain, Washington's executive team, who died suddenly in April. Shaun wrote his younger brother's obituary, which reads in part:Adam lived and worked overseas in the advertising and tech business in Amsterdam, Brussels, London, Paris, Tokyo and Melbourne. He also lived and worked in advertising and the ski industry in New York City, Chicago, Denver, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and in Vail, Colo., Jackson Hole, Wyo., and Greenwater, Wash.He lived the life he wanted to live.He was widely known for working hard and being a leader in the ski industry profession he loved, often starting work before dawn.Adam loved French Martinis, fast cars and motorcycles, high-speed skiing, music, reading literature and non-fiction, wok cooking, James Bond and art heist caper movies and smoking his beloved cigarillos. He was an ardent fan of international soccer and rugby.He liked to pick up and drop off at the airport the steady stream of visitors who he accommodated, with utmost hospitality, at his various well-appointed homes. He collected watches, fine art and mid-century modern furniture and accessories.He was a witty storyteller, entertaining family and friends with tales of his lifelong travels and adventures. He had an acerbic sense of humor and keen intellect.Read the full obit here:The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 136/100 in 2022, and number 382 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Ski Mom Halley O'Brien Brings Fun to the Mountains

Ski Moms Fun Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2022 38:19

In this episode Nicole and Sarah host Halley O'Brien, an avid snowboarder who has made outdoor adventuring her career as an on-camera personality, writer and producer. Halley is a mother of 3 boys (she just recently welcomed twins!), is the founder of The Snow Report and has her own podcast (Beyond the Apres). Halley tells us about learning to snowboard at Mountain Creek in New Jersey and falling in love with it immediately - even though her tailbone did not :) Halley walks us through her career path from a communications major to pounding the pavement at ski resorts and making her way into the ski industry business. Halley started at Mount Snow as their on mountain “Snow Reporter”, and that led her to found The Snow Report. Halley moved out to Colorado and started her own production company - working with Vail Resorts, The Weather Channel, Snow Country and then pitched her own show to Ski Magazine. Halley makes fast paced and super funny videos on all sorts of ski and snow related topics - from pond skimming to beer and gear reviews - we found ourselves laughing out loud when we tuned in. Halley and her husband are teaching their son to snowboard (starting at 13 months!) at Mountain Creek on a Burton Riglet board, a board designed specifically for the tiniest rippers. Halley now has a number of roles back at Mountain Creek and at Big Snow American Dream (indoor ski resort in New Jersey). Mountain Creek has a great ski school with progress based learning features that help guide new skiers as they build their basic ski skills. Mountain Creek has night skiing and is only an hour outside of NYC. Check out the links below to see Halley in action!Resources:Mountain Creek (NJ) https://mountaincreek.com/Mount Snow (VT) https://www.mountsnow.com/Burton Riglet https://www.burton.com/discover/s/article/burton-rigletBig Snow https://www.bigsnowamericandream.com/Eurosock https://amzn.to/3EmgGLeKeep up with the Latest from Halley:Ski Mag Snow ReportThe Snow ReportWebsite: http://www.halleyobrien.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/halleyobrienTwitter: https://twitter.com/halleyobrienInstagram: https://instagram.com/halleyobrienYouTube: https://youtube.com/@HalleyOBrienMediaPodcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-apr%C3%A8s/id1542825138Please Help Support our Podcast:Visit Mabels Labels to personalize your own labels!Use code SKIMOMS at checkout for 15% off your purchaseJoin the Ski Moms Fun Community! Follow us on Instagram @skimomsfunCheck out the Ski Moms Fun Store at www.skimomsfun.comContact us sarah@skimomsfun.com

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Podcast #104: Loon Mountain President and General Manager Brian Norton

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 15, 2022 95:42

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 14. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 17. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription.WhoBrian Norton, President and General Manager of Loon Mountain, New HampshireRecorded onNovember 1, 2022About LoonClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Boyne ResortsPass affiliations: Ikon Pass, New England PassReciprocal pass partners:* Unlimited access to Sunday River and Sugarloaf* 3 days each at Pleasant Mountain, Boyne Mountain, The Highlands, Brighton, Big Sky, Summit at Snoqualmie, CypressLocated in: Lincoln, New HampshireClosest neighboring ski areas: Kanc (3 minutes), Cannon (21 minutes), Campton (26 minutes), Mt. Eustis (28 minutes), Mt. Prospect (35 minutes), Waterville Valley (37 minutes), Bretton Woods (38 minutes), Cranmore (55 minutes), Veterans Memorial (55 minutes), Ragged (58 minutes), King Pine (58 minutes), Attitash (1 hour), Gunstock (1 hour, 6 minutes), Black Mountain NH (1 hour, 7 minutes), Pleasant Mountain (1 hour, 7 minutes), Wildcat (1 hour, 13 minutes), Abenaki (1 hour, 15 minutes)Base elevation: 950 feetSummit elevation: 3,050 feetVertical drop: 2,100 feetSkiable Acres: 370 (will increase to 400 with next year's South Peak expansion)Average annual snowfall: 160 inchesTrail count: 61 (20% black, 60% intermediate, 20% beginner)Lift count: 11, plus one train (1 four-passenger gondola, 1 eight-pack, 3 high-speed quads, 1 fixed-grip quad, 3 doubles, 2 carpets - view Lift Blog's of inventory of Loon's lift fleet). Loon will add a second fixed-grip quad - this one with a carpet-loader - rising approximately 500 feet off the Escape Route parking lots, in 2023.Why I interviewed himThere are 26 ski areas in New Hampshire. And lots of good ones: Cannon, Waterville, Bretton Woods, Attitash, Wildcat. Black and Cranmore and Ragged and Gunstock and Sunapee. Pats Peak and Crotched and King Pine. Don't “you forgot…” me, You-Forgot-[Blank] Bro. I'm making a point here: there are more good ski areas in this state than even You-Forgot-[Blank] Bro can keep track of.That means I have plenty of podcast material: I've hosted the leaders of Cannon, Gunstock, Waterville Valley, Whaleback, Ragged, and Pats Peak on the podcast. And Loon, a conversation with then-President and General Manager Jay Scambio shortly after the resort launched its so-call Flight Path 2030 plan in early 2020.So why, before I've checked off Bretton Woods or Black or Cranmore or any of the four Vail properties, am I revisiting Loon? Fair question. Plenty of answers. First, the Loon I discussed with Scambio in February 2020 is not the Loon that skiers ski today. And the Loon that skiers will make turns on before the end of this month is not the same Loon they'll ski next year, or the year after that. Kanc 8 – New England's first Octopus Lift – changed the whole flow of the resort, even though it followed the same line as the legacy lift. This year's Seven Brothers upgrade should do the same. And next year's small but significant South Peak expansion will continue the evolution.Second, Scambio, young and smart and ambitious, jumped up the Boyne Resort food chain, and is now chief operating officer for the company's day areas (Brighton, Summit at Snoqualmie, Cypress, and Loon), clearing the way for the young and smart and ambitious Norton to take the resort's top job.Third, my first Loon Mountain podcast did not age well from a technical point of view. Pre-Covid, I relied mostly on a telephone recording service to capture podcast audio. Sometimes this landed fine, but Jay and I sound as though we're talking in a 1940s war movie recorded in a field tent. I also sound considerably less enthusiastic than I actually was. I wish I could re-master it or something, but for now, Storm Skiing Podcast number 12 is an artifact of a platform in motion, seeking its shape and identity. The Storm is a far better product now, and this is as close to a re-do as I'm going to get.Fourth, the guest I originally had scheduled for the week of Oct. 31 had to cancel. Loon had just announced the South expansion, and the timing seemed perfect to revisit a New England favorite. Norton was good enough to step in, even in the midst of intensive preseason prep.So here you go: Loon podcast number two. It won't be the last.What we talked aboutHow Loon determines opening day; potential changes to the terrain-opening cadence; “I hate the thought that you do something one way because you've always done it that way”; from college student/East Basin liftie to president and general manager; Wachusett nights; that New Hampshire vibe; Planet Terrain Park; living through the Booth Creek-Boyne Resorts transition; Loon, the most popular kid on the block; managing skier volume; why Loon doesn't have night skiing, and whether the ski area has ever considered it; the amazing Kanc 8; “so much of our guest's day is not skiing”; how the new lift changed Loon skier patterns and other reflections on season one; Kanc's chaotic, wonderful lift queue; evolving the Governor's Lodge side of the resort; the Seven Brothers upgrade: “it's a new lift … you won't recognize it”; the slight modifications to the location of the top and bottom terminals; the fate of the Seven Brothers triple; comparing the new and old lifts; the importance of terrain parks to Loon; thinking through long-term upgrades to the South Peak and North Peak Express quads and the gondola; what having “the most technologically advanced lift fleet in New England” means; thoughts on the future of the East Basin double; breaking down the 2023 South Peak expansion; what it means to finally run a lift up from the massive Escape Route parking lots; the importance of connecting Loon to Lincoln; evolving Loon's learning experience; breaking down the bottom and top terminals of the coming quad lift and why it will sit slightly away from the parking lot; where the expansion will fit into the terrain-opening sequence; Loon's evolving glade philosophy; where Loon will be eliminating a glade and why; where new glades will be coming online; three huge projects at Loon in three years: “this is a commitment across the board to grow”; what the Westward Trail expansion is and when we could see it; breaking down potential additional development on North Peak; why Lincoln Peak Express doesn't go to the summit of South Peak; Loon's absolute commitment to snowmaking; why Loon will require Ikon Pass reservations this coming season, and how the mountain will set the number of reservations for each day.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewIt's all just changing so fast. Ever since dropping Flight Path 2030 plan in early 2020, Loon has built the massive and gorgeous Kancamagus eight-pack (New England's first), rebuilt the old Kanc quad and moved it across the mountains to replace the Seven Brothers triple chair, and announced a 30-acre 2023 expansion that will finally knot the ski area's massive Escape Route parking lots to the rest of the resort with a lift. And the mountain has built all that around Covid-19, with all its operational disorientation and a one-year delay on construction of Kanc 8 (originally scheduled to go live in 2020).They're just getting going. Flight Path's overarching goal, from a skier-experience point of view, is to stand up “the most technologically advanced lift network in the East to increase uphill speed and achieve ultimate comfort.” That means upgrades to the Lincoln and North Peak high-speed quads and that weird little four-person gondola. The snowmaking system, hundreds of guns that can already bury most of Loon's 370 acres by Christmas, is going full auto. New trails are likely incoming for North and South peaks. More glades, too. The Westward Trail expansion could potentially add hundreds more acres and shoot Loon past Bretton Woods for the largest-in-New Hampshire title.Even if Loon stopped with next year's expansion, the place would be in good shape. Lincoln Peak Express is only 15 years old. North Peak is 18. Kanc 8 is a glorious, beautiful machine, standing monolithic at Governor Adams, so smooth in its ascent that it appears to float up the rise. And Seven Brothers is more than a lift-and-shift – “It's a new lift,” Norton tells me on the podcast, after Doppelmayr spent a year on an overhaul so thorough that “you won't recognize it.”The 500-vertical-foot, beginner-oriented expansion, to be served by a carpet-loaded fixed-grip quad, seems small in the scale of 2,100-vertical-foot, super-octopus-lift-served Loon. But the new pod is a crucial connection both to the checkerboard of outer-edge parking lots currently served by shuttlebuses, and to the town of Lincoln, the edges of which sit walking distance to the new lift. The expansion will also add new beginner terrain, a product that extra-intermediate Loon currently lacks in meaningful quantities. Here's a peek:And here's how the little pod will fit in with the rest of the resort:With so much so recently accomplished, and so much more incoming, this seemed like a perfect moment to check in with one of New England – and, really, America's – most rapidly evolving ski areas.What I got wrongRumors were all over the place last year that Kanc 8 experienced intermittent power issues last season. I asked Norton about this in the podcast, and it turns out that the rumors weren't true. But I asked the question in a way that presumed they were. Instead of asking “what was happening with the intermittent power issues,” I should have framed it this way: “There was a lot of chatter that intermittent power issues interfered with Kanc 8 operating last year – was that true?” I'll do better.Why you should ski Loon MountainIf you're questing for rad, keep driving. Cannon is 20 minutes up the road. Loon is many things, but challenging is not one of them (watch this be the site of my next catastrophic injury). Here's what it is: one of the best exactly-in-the-middle mountains in New England skiing. Its peers are Okemo and Mount Snow and Bretton Woods; lots of fast lifts, ExtraGroomed and extra busy, with lots of skiers welcomed by the welcoming terrain.Loon is, in other words, what every ski area east of the Rockies was trying to be before terrain parks and glades and bumps made skiing more interesting: a perfect groomed ski area. Approachable and modest, big and sprawling enough to feel like an adventure, well-appointed with Boyne's particular brand of largess.Loon has an amazing terrain park, of course. Some steeper stuff off North and South. Some trees if you're timing is right. But that's not the point of the place (well, the park sort of is), and it doesn't need to be. Loon is for blue skiers like Jay is for glade skiers and like springtime Killington is for bump skiers. Groomers are the point here. Let them run.But stop, please, mid-mountain beneath the Kanc 8. Watch this beautiful machine glide. Up and over and away, the smoothest lift in skiing. Rising from frantic load terminal to propelled silence as it advances toward the summit, floating and flying and encased in a bubble. Then catch the J.E. Henry railroad over to the gondola, ride to the summit, board Tote Road – the party lift – across the mountain decorous with pines, sprawling like a mini-Sugarbush, and roll the endless, glorious blue-square Cruiser or Boom Run to the base. This is Loon – a big ramble, quirky and stimulating and easy – easy to ski, easy to like, easy to settle into and ride.Podcast notes* Norton noted that previous plans for the South Peak expansion had included two proposed lifts. This version, which, according to New England Ski History, dates to 2013, shows one possible alignment, with two crisscrossing fixed-grip quads oriented against the existing Cruiser and Escape Route trails. This plan also included the magic carpets:* We also briefly discussed the so-called “Westward Trail expansion,” which Flight Path 2030 names as a potential late-stage project. Norton noted that several hundred additional acres exist within Loon's permit area, that plans for such an expansion have existed for decades, and that this is what the Westward Trail expansion referred to. Unfortunately, I've been unable to locate these maps. If you are in possession of any, please send them over.* I attended Kanc 8's grand opening last December. Here's video of the first-ever chair:* And of course, the J.E. Henry, an honest-to-goodness steam engine that skiers ride between the Governor Adams and Octagon base areas:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 122/100 in 2022, and number 368 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #103: Bromley Mountain President and General Manager Bill Cairns

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 7, 2022 74:55

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 7. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 10. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription.WhoBill Cairns, President and General Manager of Bromley Mountain Resort, VermontRecorded onOctober 24, 2022About BromleyClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Joseph O'DonnellOperated by: The Fairbank GroupPass affiliations: NoneReciprocal pass partners: 1 day each at Jiminy Peak, CranmoreLocated in: Peru, VermontClosest neighboring ski areas: Magic Mountain (14 minutes), Stratton (19 minutes)Base elevation: 1,950 feetSummit elevation: 3,284 feetVertical drop: 1,334 feetSkiable Acres: 300Average annual snowfall: 145 inchesTrail count: 47 (31% black, 37% intermediate, 32% beginner)Lift count: 9 (1 high-speed quad, 1 fixed-grip quad, 4 doubles, 1 T-bar, 2 carpets - view Lift Blog's of inventory of Bromley's lift fleet)Uphill capacity: 10,806 skiers per hourWhy I interviewed himVermont is one of those states where you can see a lot of ski areas from the tops of other ski areas. I find this thrilling. I love all ski areas. Relish them. That such machines, so similar yet so distinct, could be so concentrated sparks within me some thrill of exotic immersion, of adventuring into zones dense and wild and compelling.Of these peak-to-peak views, none is more dramatic than south-facing Bromley viewed from north-facing Stratton. In Vermont, which manages sprawl better than the rest of U.S. America, your view is most often of mountains, the endless Greens, treed and rippling toward Canada, radio towers blinking against the sky. But Bromley, etched magnificently into the expanse, owns the view from its larger neighbor.Bromley and Stratton are two points of Southern Vermont's so-called Golden Triangle. The third is Magic. The three ski areas have a weird joint history. Of owning and buying and selling and sometimes closing one another. Right now they're all friends. Or so they say. They're each so different that it's hard to even think of them as competitors. Ultimate Indie Magic gets the beards and the FTW narrative. Ultimate Corporate Six-pack-a-tron Stratton gets the Ikon Pass-toting New Yorkers.And what is Bromley? Bromley is Ultimate Bromley. I'm not sure how else to describe it. And Bromley skiers ski Bromley. And they love the place. And why wouldn't they? The front side is blue square glory, fall lines straight and steady, cut New England narrow through the woods. There are chairlifts everywhere, flying in all directions from the base. Old doubles mostly. How ski areas once were before they simplified and streamlined. The Blue Ribbon side (like Pabst Blue Ribbon, like PBR – get it guys*), is a slightly shorter, black-diamond version of the frontside.All of this oriented gloriously toward the sun. When there's sun. In Vermont, in the winter, when it's a thousand degrees below zero, that matters a lot. This is not a great position for snowpack. Most North American ski areas face north for a reason: shadows block the sun, preserving snow depth. But skiing into May is not the point of Bromley, or its goal. The place gets enough snow, and has a good enough snowmaking system, that it can usually make the first weekend in April. Which is when Bromley skiers are tired of skiing.Or maybe they buy the Killington spring pass and keep going into June. In Vermont, you have options. The state has the same number of ski areas (26) as California, which is 17 times its size by area and 60 times larger by population. To succeed here, a ski area needs something compelling. Thirty miles south of Bromley lies the Hermitage Club, formerly Haystack, 1,400 vertical feet and 200 acres, a near Bromley clone size-wise. Yet the ski area has closed at least three times since its 1964 founding. No one could ever figure out how to compete with – or be little brother to – Mount Snow, the snowmaking Godzilla four and a half miles up the road. And yet Bromley, half the size of Stratton, which sits gigantic in the vista from Sun Mountain's frontside trails, has operated for 85 consecutive seasons. It's not like Bromley skiers don't know they have choices. They just don't care. Ultimate Bromley, with its little base village and its one high-speed lift and its zillion low-speed lifts and its sunshiney aspect, is home.*That sound you hear is every hipster in Brooklyn simultaneously mounting their single-speed banana-seat bicycles and riding north toward Vermont.What we talked aboutThe accidental career; Snow Valley, Vermont; Bromley in the ‘80s; the complex and interesting challenge of the ski business; where loyalty comes from; “our efforts are the same on a Tuesday in January as they are on a holiday Saturday at Christmas”; Vermont's first chairlift; the incredible puzzle of modernizing Bromley's snowmaking in the ‘90s; the importance of water pressure; “summer's always been a big deal at Bromley”; grab a PBR and pop a tab for this Bromley Mountain origin story; Fred Pabst's unlikely skiing legacy; snowmaking in the 1960s; Stig Albertsson buys the mountain; the arrival of the current owner, Joe O'Donnell, and his legacy and style as an owner; that one time Bromley owned Magic, or Magic owned Bromley, or Stratton owned Bromley, or something; why Bromley closed Magic; the return of The Golden Triangle; what happened when a fire hit Bromley 10 days before Christmas; the Fairbank Group arrives; last year's massive upgrade to the Sun Mountain Express; why Bromley upgraded rather than replaced the lift; the incredible resilience of Hall chairlifts; the biggest challenge in running a fleet of decades-old lifts; where else a detachable lift might make sense on the mountain; a thought experiment in what would make sense to upgrade the Plaza chairlift and Lord's Prayer T-bar; the utility and future of the old double-double; the incredible efficiency of modern snowmaking and the concomitant rise in lift-maintenance costs; managing snow quality with Bromley's southern exposure; the Bromley snow pocket; Bromley's lost trails; potential future glade and trail development; backcountry access now and in the future; the challenges of Forest Service expansion; “in some respects, the very best skiing at Bromley is not cut”; the base village; pricing season passes in the Epic and Ikon era and how Bromley has maintained its pricing power; rethinking the mountain's lift-ticket pricing structure; why we're unlikely to see a Bromley-Jiminy Peak-Cranmore joint pass anytime soon. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewThe Epic Pass hit New England like a tsunami. For decades, season pass prices had ticked upward like post-IPO Google stock. Then Vail bought Stowe, and everything instantly changed. As I wrote in March 2020 (a few days before I had something more urgent to write about), in an article headlined “The Era of the Expensive Single-Mountain Season Pass Is Over in the Northeast”: For the 2016-17 season, the last before the Broomfield Big Boys scooped up Stowe, a season pass at that most classic of New England rough-and-tumble mountains was $2,313, according to New England Ski History. Pass prices to the other large Vermont resorts were similarly outlandish: $1,779 for Sugarbush, $1,619 for Okemo, $1,486 for Killington, $1,199 for Stratton, $1,144 for Bromley (!), $999 for Mount Snow, $992 for Mad River Glen, $974 for Jay Peak, $899 for Burke, and on and on.Granted, these were probably not early season prices, and these are presumably adult no-blackout passes. But price differential from just four seasons ago – four! – is remarkable. And none of these passes, with the exception of Killington, which gave you Pico access, came with additional days at any other mountains as far as I am aware [2022 note: the Mount Snow pass, as I'm now aware, was a Peak Pass, which would have been good for unlimited access at three New Hampshire ski areas, Hunter, and all of Peak's smaller ski areas in Pennsylvania and the Midwest]. In 2020, you can now get full unrestricted access to Stowe, Mount Snow, and Okemo for $979 on an Epic Pass [2022 note: this was the season before Vail lowered Epic Pass prices by 20 percent]. You get full Sugarbush and Stratton access for a $999 Ikon Pass, and a Beast 365 pass would be $1,344 and get you unlimited Killington and access to Sugarbush and Stratton every day of the season outside of a few blackout days.In other words, for less than the price of a Stowe season pass four years ago, you can now have season passes to six of Vermont's largest mountains. If you don't mind dealing with blackout days, you could pick up a $729 Epic Local Pass and a $699 Ikon Base Pass and ski Vermont every day of the season for $1,428 (and Okemo and Mount Snow are still not even blacked out on the Epic Local Pass). And you can further reduce this by, say, picking up a $599 Northeast Epic Pass and a (if you're renewing), $649 Ikon Base pass, which would give you blacked-out season passes to Okemo, Mount Snow, Stratton, and Sugarbush, and 10 days at Stowe and five at Killington, for all of $1,248.I could go on. There is no need to. Skiers will figure this out for themselves, and quickly. Anyone buying a season pass in Vermont just four years ago was more or less locked into that mountain for the season, as the number of ski days required to justify the pass purchase was significant, and any days invested elsewhere probably seemed excessive and indulgent. In the three-year instant it took Vail to buy Stowe and Okemo and Peak and integrate them into a regional pass, and Alterra to buy Stratton and Sugarbush and introduce the Ikon Pass and then significantly expand access in the region, the consumer expectation has shifted from season pass as an aspirational indulgence reserved for locals and second-home owners to a bargain product that offers limitless access to not one but multiple high-quality mountains, not just across the East, but in the snowy towering West.I then called out Bromley in particular:In this environment, not even the burliest mountains can stand alone. Killington just conceded that. Boyne did something similar with its New England Pass last week, tossing an Ikon Base Pass in with its $1,549 Platinum-tier product, which provides unlimited access to its standout trio of Sugarloaf, Sunday River, and Loon.All of this leaves skiers – especially mountain-hopping skiers like myself – in the best pass-shopping position imaginable. No matter which pass we buy, it will come not just with limitless days at our local mountain, but bonus or unlimited days at at least half a dozen other mountains that we can easily travel to.All of which creates a very difficult reality for independent mountains: skiers now expect access far beyond their core mountain when purchasing a season pass, and they expect those passes to be massively discounted from what they were less than one presidential election cycle ago.On both price and additional access, many independent ski areas are far behind. Bromley's season pass, for example, is $925 (all prices are for adult, no-blackout passes, unless otherwise indicated). That's early-bird pricing. It includes no free days at any other mountains, even though its parent company also owns or operates Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts and Cranmore in New Hampshire [2022 note: Bromley, Cranmore, and Jiminy Peak passes now include one day at each of their sister mountains]. It does offer some non-holiday discounts of up to half off day tickets at partner resorts, including Jay Peak.This is a completely untenable position. Bromley is a fine mountain. It is terrific for families. It has some fun terrain off the Blue Ribbon Quad. It is very easy to get to. But it is right down the road from Stratton, which is far larger, has a far more sophisticated lift network, and is on the Ikon Pass, meaning a pass to Stratton is only $74 more than a pass to Bromley and also includes a pass to Sugarbush, days at Killington, etc., etc. Unless you have a condo on the mountain and you ski there and only there and have for years and years and have no aspirations or intentions of going anywhere else ever, there is no way to justify that pass price with no access to any mountain other than your own in today's competitive ski pass environment.One of two things needs to happen in order for independent mountains to remain competitive in the season pass realm: they need to join a coalition of other independent ski areas to offer reciprocal free days at one another's mountains for passholders, or the price needs to come way down. And in most cases, the answer is probably some combination of both of those things.Well I was wrong. Bromley never joined a pass coalition and its pass price keeps increasing, and yet every year, the mountain sells more passes. So I'll own my mistake. My template was too simplistic, too focused on price and variety and size as a skier's primary motivating factors, too anchored to the assumption that all skiers were like me, seeking the most mountains for the lowest cost. It would have been like saying Whole Foods business model sucks because Kroger has larger stores and sells groceries for less money. Consumers will pay a premium for exclusivity and quality. And Bromley offers both: good snow, fewer people. A predictable, repeatable experience for a tight community of families and condo owners. These things matter more than I had supposed.Select independent ski areas all over the country are thriving in the megapass era by snubbing the trends of the megapass era: Wolf Creek, Mt. Baker, Bear Valley, Whitefish, Bretton Woods, Wachusett, Plattekill, Holiday Valley. Part of this is Epkon burnout, refugees seeking respite from the crowds. Part of it is atmosphere and community, skiers buying into a gestalt as much as a place or activity. Bromley operates in one of the toughest neighborhoods in skiing, seated within a two-hour's drive of dozens of competitors, many of them bigger and cheaper, with more terrain variety and more snowfall and more and faster lifts. And yet the Sun Mountain keeps winning. There's a reason for that, and I wanted to figure out what it was.What I got wrongI stated in the interview that Joseph O'Donnell had purchased Bromley in 1990, intimating that marked the start of his involvement with the ski area. Cairns points out that O'Donnell had worked with Bromley beginning in the 1980s.Why you should ski BromleyMount Snow and Stratton, nice as they are, tricked out as they are, have downsides. Especially on weekends. Especially midwinter. Neither does a great job managing skier volume, and neither seems particularly interested in trying. I don't know how much that really matters. It's New England, and skiers expect crowds. It's all part of the experience, like overgrooming and boilerplate and safety bars dropped on your dome before the chair is out of the barn.How to escape the human anthill ski experience? Well, you could join the Hermitage Club, which at last check-in cost $50,000 upfront and $15,000 annually thereafter. You could ski Magic, which is uncrowded but snowmaking-challenged, with just 50 percent of the mountain covered and one fixed-grip double to the top (though the Black Quad may finally be close to launch). Or you could ski Bromley, with the snowmaking and grooming firepower of its bigger corporate neighbors, but without the mosh-pit atmosphere. Unlike most of Vermont, the place is tolerable even at its busiest.And the sunshine effect is real. Stratton is often abandoned after 2:30 p.m. The sun dips, the snow bricks up, and everyone leaves. When the clouds aren't bunching heavy over New England and the wind stays down, Bromley is just a more pleasant place to be. It doesn't have the tough-guy terrain like Killington or the expanses of glades like Stratton. And it doesn't need them. Bromley, the Ultimate Bromley, is just fine being exactly what it knows it has to be.Podcast notes* We go deep on Bromley's long history, but New England Ski History has a great overview of the ski area's development, going back to the wild early days of recorded Vermont history.* Bill and I discuss the lost Snow Valley ski area extensively. Though this little spot, parked off Vermont state highway 30 between Bromley and Stratton, closed in 1984, it remains popular among backcountry skiers. Someone still maintains several runs, and the property was recently listed for sale (it was scheduled for auction in September, but I'm uncertain how that went). While it's highly unlikely that anyone could redevelop Snow Valley as a lift-served ski area, it could become New England's version of the uphill-only Bluebird Backcountry ski area in Colorado. Here's a 1982 trailmap:* Bill discusses the rising cost of everything, but point in particular to the exploding price of chairlifts. He notes that the Sun Mountain Express cost Bromley $2.7 million in 1997, and estimates that it would run $7 million to install a similar lift today. Had chairlifts followed general inflationary trends, the lift would run around $5 million today.* Bill references a 1950s trail called “Bromley Run,” that ran off the summit and didn't return to the lifts. You can see it marked as trail 10 on this “Big Bromley” trailmap from 1950:* Bill and I discuss potential terrain expansions (unlikely), and the possibility of backcountry skiing – possibly guided – from the summit down to Peru, to the east, and East Dorset, to the northwest. He also refers to the Best Farm quite a bit, which is the large circled area off highway 11. The Fairbank Group's website currently has this space scoped for real estate development. Here's the ski area in relation to these various areas:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 120/100 in 2022, and number 366 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #96: Jay Peak President and General Manager Steve Wright

The Freeheel Life Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 16, 2022 44:25

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Sept. 16. Free subscribers got it on Sept. 19. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription.WhoSteve Wright, President and General Manager of Jay Peak, VermontRecorded onSeptember 16, 2022About Jay PeakClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Pacific Group Resorts (pending court and regulatory approval)Pass affiliations: Indy PassLocated in: Jay, VermontClosest neighboring ski areas: Owl's Head (1/2 hour), Burke (1 hour), Smugglers' Notch (1 hour), Stowe (1 hour) - travel times approximate and will vary by season and, in the case of Owl's Head, be heavily dependent upon international border traffic.Base elevation: 1,815 feetSummit elevation: 3,968 feetVertical drop: 2,153 feetSkiable Acres: 385Average annual snowfall: 359 inchesTrail count: 81 (20% novice, 40% intermediate, 40% advanced)Lift count: 9 lifts (1 tram, 1 high-speed quad, 3 fixed-grip quads, 1 triple, 1 double, 2 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Jay Peak's lift fleet)Why I interviewed himI'm not even sure what else to say here. I've probably written more about Jay Peak than any other ski area in the country since launching The Storm in 2019. Most of it goes something like this bit I wrote last month:If you're unfamiliar with Jay Peak, think of it as Vermont's Wolf Creek or Mt. Baker: big, rowdy, snowy, and affordable. And, for most of us, far away – the resort sits just four miles from the Canadian border. Jay averages more snow than any other ski area east of the Rockies: 359 inches per year. That's a lot of inches. More than Telluride or Vail or Aspen or A-Basin or Park City. Of course, none of those mountains' base areas sits at 1,800 feet, as Jay's does, meaning the whole New England menu of rain, freeze-thaws, and New Yorkers. But it's enough snow that the place is legendary for glades, typically pushes the season into May, and is one of the only places in New England where you can rack shots like this without the assistance of Photoshop:From a pure skiing point of view, Jay is, more days than not, the best ski area in the eastern United States. Getting a good powder day in New England is like finding a good banana: it happens a lot less often than you would think, but damn is it satisfying when you do. Jay delivers more bananas than anywhere else in Vermont, a state rippling with snowy legends like Sugarbush and Mad River Glen and Stowe and Smugglers' Notch. It's special.That's not hyperbole. Jay Peak has led Indy Pass redemptions for the past two seasons not simply because it sits at the top of the nation's most densely populated region, but because it's a kick-ass mountain.But there are a lot of kick-ass mountains in New England that don't get the love that Jay does. At some point in the skier-snowfall-terrain-cost-stoke algorithm, that maximally boring category called management supersedes the actual skiing in determining public perception of a mountain. For the past six years, Jay Peak has somehow done everything right while everything has gone wrong. In short: the former owners scammed foreign investors out of hundreds of millions in one of the largest immigrant visa scams in U.S. history, the resort tussled with the town over valuation, Vail came to town, Alterra followed, Covid hit, the Canadian border closed, and the whole sales process drug on and on and on. And yet, I'm not sure if the resort's reputation has ever been stronger, its general more respected, its status as the king of New England skiing more secure.And while he will be the last one to admit it, that's almost entirely due to the leadership of Steve Wright, who found himself suddenly thrust into the general manager role as former resort president Bill Stenger was escorted out the door by federal authorities.What we talked aboutRelief; community reaction to Pacific Group Resorts' (PGRI) winning bid to purchase Jay Peak; how much it helps that PGRI already owns Ragged, a New England ski area; reflecting back on this long slow road; why that road was so long; what finally pushed the sales process to its conclusion; how the pool of potential buyers reacted when PGRI made their initial $58 million bid public; the frantic period between PGRI's bid on Aug. 1 and the Sept. 7 auction; auction day; what we know about the two bidders who lost out to PGRI; the final legal formalities that PGRI needs to clear to take final ownership of Jay; what Wright means when he says that PGRI shares Jay's “values”; “You look at an outfit like Pacific, and they've lived it”; whether “Jay will stay Jay,” and what that means; how much autonomy PGRI grants its resort managers; turning the resort around with everything working against them; a realm in which modesty rules; Jay's immediate capital needs; an interesting potential chairlift switcheroo; whether Bonaventure could get an upgrade to a detachable lift, and whether that would be a quad or a six-pack; thoughts on the future of the Indy Pass at Jay Peak; whether Jay Peak will continue to offer affordable lift tickets; will Jay continue to stay open into May?; the West Bowl expansion is dead.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewWell. I wasn't exactly in need of more work to do. The fall podcast lineup is stacked, with the general managers of Pats Peak, Sun Valley, Brundage, Nub's Nob, Winter Park, Bromley, Monarch, Sundance, and Vail Mountain scheduled through November. I already have an episode recorded with the Colorado Sun's Jason Blevins, the best ski reporter in the country. But last week, Jay's six-year run on the front page of skiing's tabloids appeared near its end, as mini-conglomerate Pacific Group Resorts submitted the winning, $76 million bid in an auction for the ski area.We're not quite done here. PGRI's bid is subject to approval by a U.S. District Court in Florida. But after years of uncertainty, we are clear to start envisioning Jay Peak not as that resort stuck in a crazy limbo, but as a place with a promising future under a proven multi-resort operator. Will Jay stick with Indy? Will Jet continue spinning into May? What will happen with Canada back in the mix? Will Jay continue to offer affordable lift tickets as Stowe nears $200 a day and Killington, Sugarbush, Stratton, Okemo, and Mount Snow sink deeper into the triple digits? I don't think anyone really knows. But the person who's best positioned to shape the answers to these question is Steve Wright, who just guided Jay Peak through one of the most tumultuous periods in modern lift-served skiing.Questions I wish I'd askedWe had a quick window to make this happen, so this podcast episode is much shorter than the typical Storm Skiing Podcast. I wanted to talk about the Canadian border re-opening and what that meant for Jay and for skiers. I also wanted to get Wright's reaction to the fact that Jay is no longer an independent ski area, but part of a larger family of resorts. There are so many ways to go with this story, and I am working on a follow-up to get a better sense of how PRGI will approach Jay and the challenges they face as they evolve the ski area.What I got wrongI incorrectly stated that Jay Peak's top 2021-22 lift ticket price was $86 – it was $96, as Wright notes in the interview. I also said PGRI put their “chips” on the table. Should be “cards” I suppose. But I am not Gambling Bro so I'm vulnerable to malapropisms in that realm.Why you should ski Jay PeakThe Storm was founded in and continues to be anchored in the Northeast. For those readers, I have nothing to say that they don't already know. You ski Jay because it's Jay, because doing so gives you the best odds of pretending like you're in Colorado and not freezing-below-human-understanding New England.For the rest of you: should you deign to ski the East, set your GPS for Northern Vermont. Run up the whole Green Mountain Spine. Start at Sugarbush, maybe Killington if you want to experience true New England zeal and madness, then work your way north: Mad River Glen, Bolton Valley, Stowe, Smugglers' Notch, Jay. That's the best skiing we have. The terrain is varied and wild, stuffed with must-ski lines and pods: Paradise at MRG, the Front Four at Stowe, Castle Rock at Sugarbush, Madonna at Smuggs. All have expansive backcountry options for Uphill Bro. The vertical drops are legit: Killington stands at 3,000 feet; Pico, right next door, at 1,967; Sugarbush is 2,600; MRG, 2,000; Bolton Valley, 1,701; Stowe, 2,360; Smuggs, 2,610; Jay, 2,153. Here, in this zone of snow and cold – each of these resorts averages at least 250 annual inches – is your best chance of open glades and fresh snow, and the lowest chance of rain and surface-killing refreeze.Be quiet Shoosh Emoji Bro. Anyone who's skied any of these mountains knows the secret broke out of jail a long time ago. Besides, my encomiums are unlikely to start a mass eastward migration from SLC. But the Eastern reputation, among much of the ski world, is that of an icy realm of unskiable concrete. That happens. But New England skiing – especially Northern Vermont skiing – is good more often than it's bad. And if you want to bust your own stereotypes wide open, there are worse places to start than this snowy kingdom at the top of America.More Jay PeakAs I said above, I've written a lot about Jay Peak. One of my favorites was this article last November examining why Jay and soul sister Whitefish, Montana keep their lift tickets affordable in an era in which big-mountain peak-day tickets can cost more than a space shuttle launch:Last month, I wrote a long piece examining Pacific Group Resorts and what Jay could look like as part of their portfolio. One interesting question: PGRI offers a “Mission: Affordable” season pass at four of its five existing mountains. It started at $379 for the 2022-23 season (they are currently $529). Will Jay follow its new sister resorts, or will it, like PGRI's Mount Washington Alpine out on Vancouver Island, continue to offer passes in its traditional price range (Jay's early-bird 2022-23 price was $749; the current price is $895 through Oct. 10). I'm working on a follow-up story, but here was my first analysis:This is Wright's second time on The Storm Skiing Podcast. His first appearance also coincided with big news – the resort's signing with the Indy Pass in 2020:Oddly, I had scheduled that interview months in advance – the Indy Pass announcement was a complete, and fortunate, coincidence. Here's the story I wrote around that announcement:And here was my flash reaction to PGRI's winning bid last Thursday, which I wrote in a Pennsylvania Burger King on a roadtrip lunch break:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing all year long. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 98*/100 in 2022, and number 344 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane). You can also email skiing@substack.com.*Don't worry Team, we are not stopping at 100. That is a minimum. We have 16 more podcasts alone scheduled through the end of the year. We're likely to land around 130 articles for 2022. And by the way, this is the 28th podcast of 2022, even with the long break these past two months or so, and we should end with more than 40 for the year. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

#141 - Darrell Finlayson | Deer Valley Ski Patrol

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 8, 2022 64:11

Darrell Finlayson has been a ski patroller for 28 consecutive seasons at Deer Valley in Utah, many of those years on Telemark gear. He's also a full-time bike patroller at Deer Valley during the summer. He's originally from New York State where he grew up skiing and enjoying the outdoors. After college he picked up his first Ski Patrol job at Mount Snow, Vermont for a few seasons before heading west. That's when he scored his gig at Deer Valley almost 3 decades ago. In the early 2000s he became friends with Noah and Jonah Howell who were both working at Deer Valley. The brothers, along with some of their friends started filming their backcountry outings and deep powder turns. These clips first appeared in a Toughguy Productions movie, under the name Powederwhore, and then in 2005 they dropped their own movie called PW05. My guest was one of the original cast members of the first Powderwhore movie and went on to appear in several others. Aside from being a long time patroller, he's also a proficient backcountry skier. Sign-up for the mailing list: https://bit.ly/FHLMailingList Connect with Josh and the Freeheel Life Family Josh on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter Telemark Skier Magazine on Instagram, Twitter and YouTube Freeheel Life on Instagram and Twitter Shop The Freeheel Life Telemark Shop How You Can Support Us: Shop Telemark at FREEHEELLIFE.COM Subscribe & Become a Supporter of TelemarkSkier.com for articles, gear reviews, & more! Email Podcast@freeheellife.com

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Ski Mom Joyce Shulman Shares the Power of Walking

Ski Moms Fun Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 18, 2022 27:47

In this episode Nicole and Sarah host Joyce Shulman, ski mom, entrepreneur, writer, speaker, community builder and walker. Joyce is the CEO and Founder of 99 Walks and Jetti Fitness. Joyce learned to ski in her late 20's and fell in love with it from her first run at Mount Snow. Joyce and her family love to ski together everywhere from Vail to Okemo. Joyce tells us about her latest mission to get a million women walking their way to better through 99 Walks.We get some great insights into the powerful benefits of walking with a friend and learn about jetti poles (walking poles that turn walking into a full body workout). Joyce shares more details in her Ted Talk.Keep up with the latest from Joyce:Website: www.99walks.fit On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/99walks/On Instagram: https://instagram.com/99walksCheck out Joyce's book “Walk Your Way to Better: 99 Walks That Will Change Your Life”Shop the SKI MOM tee and tank collection here. Start Planning your next ski trip! Check out our ski mom approved vacation rentalsJoin the Ski Moms Fun Community!Follow us on Instagram @skimomsfunCheck out the Ski Moms Fun Store Get your copy of the Ski Moms CookbookEmail us at sarah@skimomsfun.com

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Podcast #94: Gore Mountain General Manager Bone Bayse

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 16, 2022 68:08

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This podcast hit paid subscribers’ inboxes on July 16. Free subscribers got it on July 19. WhoBone Bayse, General Manager of Gore Mountain, New YorkRecorded onJune 27, 2022About Gore MountainClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: New York State – managed by the Olympic Regional Development Authority (ORDA)Pass affiliations: NY Ski 3 with Whiteface and Belleayre; former member of the now-defunct M.A.X. PassLocated in: North Creek, New YorkClosest neighboring ski areas: Dynamite Hill (25 minutes), Hickory (30 minutes –closed since 2015 but intends to re-open), Newcomb (40 minutes), Oak Mountain (42 minutes), West Mountain (45 minutes)Base elevation: 998 feet (at North Creek Ski Bowl)Summit elevation: 3,600 (at Gore Mountain)Vertical drop: 2,537 feet (lift-served – lifts do not reach the top of Gore Mountain)Skiable Acres: 448Average annual snowfall: 125 inchesTrail count: 108 (11% easy, 48% intermediate, 41% advanced)Lift count: 14 (1 gondola, 2 high-speed quads, 4 fixed-grip quads, 3 triples, 1 J-bar, 1 Poma, 2 carpets - view Lift Blog’s inventory of Gore’s lift fleet)Why I interviewed himIf you told me I could only ski one New York ski area for the rest of my life, I would pick Gore, and I wouldn’t have to even consider it. If you told me I could only ski one ski area in the Northeast outside of Northern Vermont for the rest of my life, then I would still pick Gore. And if you told me I could only ski one Northeast ski area for the rest of my life and you threw in a magic snowcloud that delivered Green Mountain Spine-level snowfalls to eastern New York… well, I’d probably have to go with Jay Peak or Smuggs or Stowe or Sugarbush, but if my commute still had to start in Brooklyn, then Gore would be a strong contender.This is a damn fine chunk of real estate, is my point here. The skiing is just terrific. There’s a reason that New York Ski Blog founder Harvey Road makes Gore, along with Plattekill, his home base. It’s a big, interesting ski area, a state-owned property that somehow feels anti-establishment, a sort of outpost for the gritty, toughguy skier who has little use for the Rockies or, for that matter, Vermont. It’s the sort of place where people rack up 100-day seasons even if it only snows 45 inches (as happened over the 2015-16 ski season, according to Snowpak). But Gore really needs snow to be Gore. And that’s because the best part about the skiing is the mountain’s massive glade network, which threads its way around, over, and through the ski area’s many peaks. The woods are well-considered and well-maintained, marked and secret, rambling and approachable. None of them, outside a half dozen turns on Chatiemac and a few others, are particularly steep. At low-snow Gore, this is a plus – it doesn’t take a lot of snow to fill in the trees, and the snow tends to hold once it falls.Talk to anyone who has toured the New York ski scene, and you’ll hear familiar – if sometimes unfair – complaints. Hunter is too crowded, Windham too expensive, Whiteface too icy. No one ever has anything bad to say about Gore, even though it can sometimes be some version of all of those things. The one consistent nit about the place is its sprawling setup, but that breadth is precisely what keeps liftlines short to nonexistent, outside of the gondola, nearly every day of the ski season. And locals know how to work around the traverses that drive day-skiers nutso. It’s an elegant machine once you learn how to drive it.I get a lot of requests for podcasts. Gore is one of the most frequent. If it ran for president of New York skiing, I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t need a recount. I’ve been after this one for a long time, and I’m happy we were finally able to deliver it.What we talked aboutThe longest ski season in Gore Mountain history; how the mountain reached May and whether they’ll try to do so again in the future; ORDA’s commitment to the long season; snowmaking; the singular experience of life in the southern Adirondacks; Gore in the 1980s; the story behind the Burnt Ridge and Snow Bowl expansions; the new trail coming to Burnt Ridge for next winter; don’t worry Barkeater will be OK!; why the new summer attractions have to be built at North Creek; Ski Bowl history; riding trucks up the mountain; the death of the ski train; how much of the historic North Creek ski area Gore was able to incorporate into its expansion; Nordic skiing at Gore; the huge new lift-lodge-zipline project planned for North Creek; the anticipated alignment of the new Hudson chair; a potential timeline for the whole project; how Gore could evolve if it had two fully developed base areas; whether more trails could be inbound for North Creek (or anywhere else at Gore); Gore’s expansive and ever-expanding glades; a wishlist for lift upgrades; which lift could get an extension; details on the new lift type and alignment for Bear Cub; possible replacements for Straight Brook and Topridge; in defense of fixed-grip lifts; whether we could ever see the gondola return to the Gore Mountain summit; why the North Quad terminates below the gondola; the potential for slopeside lodging at Gore; the Ski3 Pass; why Belleayre still has a standalone pass but Gore does not; why ORDA dropped the every-sixth-day-free from the Ski3 frequency card and whether that could return; why Gore didn’t migrate from the M.A.X. Pass to the Ikon Pass; whether Gore could ever join the Ikon or Indy Passes; staffing up in spite of the challenges; how ORDA determines wages; and the World University Games. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewAnytime would be a good time for a Gore interview. There is always something new. In 2020, Gore was one of a handful of ski areas in North America that went ahead with planned lift projects, upgrading High Peaks and Sunway, a pair of unreliable antiques, with new fixed-grip quads. The ski area’s rapid expansion over the past 15 years – with the additions of Burnt Ridge, North Creek Ski Bowl, and countless glades, both mapped and not – is nearly unequaled in the United States. Gore is, and has been for a very long time, a place where big things are happening.Part of the reason for that rapid growth is the 2018 announcement that New York will host the 2023 World University Games. Gore will host a set of freestyle events, and the state seems intent on avoiding a repeat of the 1980 Olympic embarrassment, when a snowless early winter threatened to move several events north to Canada. New York has invested hundreds of millions of dollars into its three ski areas and its Olympic facilities over the past decade, and much of that has gone to Gore.But I do not, as regular readers know, focus much – or, really, any – attention on ski competitions of any kind. Bone and I discuss the games a bit toward the end of the interview, but mostly we talk about the mountain. And it is a hell of a mountain. It’s a personal favorite, and one I’ve been trying to lock a podcast conversation around since Storm Launch Day back in 2019.Questions I wish I’d askedMany of you may be left wondering why my extensive past complaints about ORDA largess did not penetrate my line of questioning for this interview. Gore is about to spend nearly $9 million to replace a 12-year-old triple chair with a high-speed quad. There is no other ski area on the continent that is able to do anything remotely similar. How could I spend an hour talking to the person directing this whole operation without broaching this very obvious subject?Because this is not really a Gore problem. It’s not even an ORDA problem. This is a New York State problem. The state legislature is the one directing hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to three ski areas while the majority of New York’s family-owned mountains pray for snow. I am not opposed to government support of winter sports. I am opposed to using tax dollars from independent ski areas that have to operate at a profit in order to subsidize the operations of government-owned ski areas that do not. There are ways to distribute the wealth more evenly, as I’ve outlined before.But this is not Bayse’s fight. He’s the general manager of a public ski area. What is he supposed to do? Send the $9 million back to the legislature and tell them to give it to Holiday Mountain? His job is to help prioritize projects and then make sure they get done. And he’s really good at that job. So that – and not bureaucratic decisions that he has no control over – was where I took this conversation.Why you should ski GoreThe New York glory goes to Whiteface, Olympic skyscraper, its 3,430-foot vertical drop towering over everything in the Northeast, and big parts of the West too, over Aspen and Breck and Beaver Creek and Mammoth and Palisades Tahoe and Snowbird and Snowbasin. The New York attention goes to the Catskills, seated between Gore and The City – New York City – like a drain trap. Almost all of the northbound skiers that don’t know enough to detour to Belleayre or Plattekill stop at Windham and Hunter and for most that’s as far north as they ever bother to go. Whiteface sits adjacent to Lake Placid, one of North America’s great ski towns. Hunter has slopeside lodging and a woo-hoo sensibility that vibes with metro-area hedonism.Gore sits between these twin outposts. It’s less than four hours north of Manhattan, 30 minutes off the interstate on good roads. It’s overlooked anyway. Skiers headed that far north are more likely to end up at Stratton or Mount Snow or Okemo or Killington, with their big-pass affiliations and on-mountain beds and similar-to-Gore vertical drops and trail networks. Anyone who wants to ski Gore has to wake up and drive every day, even if they’re on vacation.All of that adds up to this: the best ski area in New York is often one of its least crowded. And Gore is the best ski area in New York. The glade network alone grants it that distinction. The place is sprawling, quirky, interesting. It skis like a half dozen mini ski areas stuffed into a sampler pack: get small-town vibes at Ski Bowl, cruise off Bear, go Midwest off gentle and forgotten North Quad, feel high alpine on the summit, or just bounce around all day in the glades.When Gore has snow, it’s glorious, a backwoods vibe with a modern lift fleet – other than an antique J-bar, the oldest lift on the mountain is from 1995. But snow is Gore’s biggest drawback. One hundred twenty-five inches per year is OK, but if only we could hack the whole operation out of the earth and chopper it west into one of New York’s two great snowbelts, off Lakes Ontario or Eerie, where Snow Ridge racks up 230 inches of annual snowfall and Peek’N Peak claims 200. ORDA has invested massively in snowmaking – Gore has at least 829 snowguns. But they don’t make snow in the trees, and without that sprawling glade network in play, Gore is a far less interesting place.It can also be hard to navigate. Anyone who doesn’t luck into the Pipeline Traverse connecting North Quad to Burnt Ridge and Ski Bowl (Little Gore), is looking at an atrocious commute from the main lodge to the Burnt Ridge Quad, an irritating pole on skis, infuriating on a snowboard. That’s just one example – Gore, for the uninitiated, can be an exhaustive tangle of such routes, of lifts that don’t quite go where you thought they would, of deceptive distances squished together for the convenience of a pocket-fold trailmap.Still, Gore is everything that is great about New York skiing: affordable, convenient, unpretentious, unassuming. It is, under the right conditions, a top 10 Northeast mountain. It’s a true skier’s mountain, opening early, closing as late as May 1. This one’s not on any of your megapasses. Go there anyway. It’s worth it.Podcast notesBayse and I discussed the new intermediate trail going in on Burnt Ridge this summer. Gore’s website describes the new trail in this way:This 60’ wide intermediate-rated trail with grooming and snowmaking capabilities will enter near the top of the Burnt Ridge Quad and run alongside the Barkeater Glades, ending just uphill of the Roaring Brook Bridge at the bottom of The Pipeline, making your adventure to Little Gore Mountain and the Ski Bowl more direct and easily accessible!Here’s where it will sit on the trailmap:New York Ski Blog’s Harvey Road visited Gore in June and walked the new trail with Bayse:We also discussed the possibility of eventually bringing the gondola back to the top of Gore Mountain, where the ski area’s original gondola landed, as you can see in this 1994 trailmap:That won’t be happening. When Gore strung the new gondy up in 1999, they dropped the terminal onto Bear Mountain, which opened up a whole new pod of skiing:That, as it turned out, was just the start of Gore’s rabid expansion over the next two decades. In 2008, the ski area developed Burnt Ridge:Two years later, Gore connected Burnt Ridge to Little Gore Mountain, which was the lost North Creek Ski Bowl ski area:We also discussed additional trails that could be developed skier’s left of the current Little Gore summit. Here’s what those looked like in a 2008 rendering:If you really want to get into Gore’s potential and long-term plans, there are zillions of conceptual maps in the ski area’s 541-page Unit Management Plan update from 2018:Finally, Bayse and I discussed the M.A.X. Pass, which was the immediate antecedent of the Ikon Pass. Gore was a part of this eclectic coalition, which included all of the mountains below – imagine if all of these had joined the Ikon Pass:Scanning that roster is a bit like playing Fantasy Ski Pass, but it’s also an acknowledgement that there’s nothing preordained about the current Ikon-Indy-Epic-Mountain Collective alignments that we are all so familiar with. That was M.A.X. Pass’ lineup five years ago. Now, those ski areas are split amongst the four big passes, and some of them have opted for complete independence. Gore, sadly for the multi-mountain pass fans among us, is one of them (though it is part of the SKI3 Pass with sister resorts Belleayre and Whiteface). That trio would make a Northeast crown jewel for Indy Pass, and would be a worthy addition for Ikon. If ORDA were worried about cannibalizing SKI3 sales with an Ikon partnership, they could simply combine the three ski areas into a single “destination” and offer five or seven combined days, much as Ikon has long offered at the four Aspen mountains or Killington-Pico.Gore on New York Ski BlogNo ski writer in America has written more about Gore than Harvey Road, who, as mentioned above, is the founder, editor, and soul behind the fabulous New York Ski Blog, which is one of the longest-running and most consistent online regional ski websites in the country.Harv is a good friend of mine, and I’ve contributed a half dozen posts (on Burke, Stowe, Maple Ski Ridge, Willard, Mount Snow, and Killington) to his site over the years. New York Ski Blog has 222 stories tagged with Gore, which date back to 2006. I asked Harvey to choose his four favorite:1) I Never Made It To The Top – Feb. 18, 2019There are many reasons to like the North Creek Ski Bowl. The parking, the yurt, the people who ski there, the vibe. Another bonus feature is proximity to Burnt Ridge via the Eagle’s Nest traverse.Burnt Ridge has become the part of Gore that I think about when I’m daydreaming at my desk. It’s unique among the eastern areas I have skied. A beautiful chair lift that serves an epic groomer and four mile-long glades. For the most part they are gently pitched, and I often find I am in my zone.2) Gore Mountain: Love The One You’re With – March 25, 2019NYSkiBlog was originally designed to be a skier’s decision engine. The Weather Center was created to help road warriors — those who have to travel far and plan ahead — make the best possible decisions to get good snow.It’s certainly not a fool-proof tool. Weather data requires persistent monitoring and educated interpretation to pay dividends. And even with all that, things can go wrong.My idea at the beginning of the week was to ski Plattekill in the warm sunshine that was forecast for Saturday, and then move north to ski Gore on Sunday. But as the week wore on, a spring storm crept into the forecast and affected my plan.3) That Next Big Step – Feb. 19, 2020Over the last few seasons, our daughter has been generally fearless in the trees, and only intimidated by the steepest steeps at Gore. Two years ago, when 46er opened, we skied right up to the headwall, paused, re-considered, and sidestepped back uphill to ski the Hudson Trail.This past Sunday, we were first at the Yurt and first in line for the Hudson Chair. Don was working the lift, and he always gives me a good tip: “46er was groomed overnight.” The lift started to spin early, and we were on our way up the hill at 8:15.I’ve learned, always listen to Don. Without pushing too hard, I hope, I raised the idea of grabbing it while the cord was perfect. Two points for us, we were on a slow fixed-grip lift, with no one ahead of us, so we had some time to talk it out. By the time we arrived at the top of Little Gore, we were going for it.The cord was firm but grippy and she nailed it. On the next ride up, she asked me “Dad, how does that compare to Lies?” I told her “46er is steeper than Lies, but it’s shorter. And Lies won’t be cord, by the time we get to it.”Apparently some kids at school had been talking about Lies, making it out to be the full-on shizzle. She’d gained confidence on 46er and was looking for some bragging rights to go with it. “To the top Dad, to the top!”4) Gore Mountain: Good Friday – April 18, 2022When Gore is one of NY’s last men standing — and you have a season pass, and a beautiful day off, and you’re a wannabe ski writer — you’re going to ski it and write about it. That’s how it goes. More Gore.This is also the post in which Harvey describes a confrontation with some moron who “didn’t appreciate the attention [NY Ski Blog has] brought to Gore.” This is an idiotic take, as though a hobby blog, and not the millions of dollars in upgrades and marketing invested by the state, were the reason for Gore’s growing reputation and skier visits. This sort of don’t-talk-about-my-mountain homerism is counterproductive, a sort of domestic xenophobia that’s frustrating and disheartening. It’s also bizarre. An Instagram follower recently hit me with a shoosh emoji after I posted a picture of a super-top-secret ski area called Alta, as though a post to my fewer-than 3,000 followers was going to suddenly transform one of America’s most iconic ski areas into a mosh pit. I hate to blow this secret wide open, but these are public businesses, that anyone is allowed to visit. I visit dozens of ski areas every season – one of them is usually Gore. Other than Mountain Creek – my home mountain – I’m a tourist at every single one of them. Translating the energy of those places into content that helps fuel the ski zeitgeist is part of the point of The Storm, and it’s the whole point of New York Ski Blog. Follow along with Harv’s adventures by subscribing to his free email newsletter:Additional New York-focused Storm Skiing PodcastsPlattekill owners Danielle and Laszlo VajtayCatamount owner Jon SchaeferWindham President Chip SeamansWest Mountain owners Sara and Spencer MontgomerySki Areas of New York President Scott BrandiTitus Mountain co-owner Bruce Monette Jr.Hickory shareholders corporation President David CronheimSnow Ridge co-owner and General Manager Nick MirThe Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 71/100 in 2022, and number 317 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Podcast #91: Snow Partners (Big Snow, Mountain Creek) CEO Joe Hession

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 19, 2022

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Paid subscribers receive thousands of extra words of content each month, plus all podcasts three days before free subscribers.WhoJoe Hession, CEO of Snow Partners, owners of Mountain Creek, Big Snow American Dream, Snowcloud, and Terrain Based LearningRecorded onJune 15, 2022About Mountain CreekLocated in: Vernon Township, New JerseyClosest neighboring ski areas: National Winter Activity Center, New Jersey (6 minutes); Mount Peter, New York (24 minutes); Campgaw, New Jersey (51 minutes); Big Snow American Dream (50 minutes)Pass affiliations: NoneBase elevation: 440 feetSummit elevation: 1,480 feetVertical drop: 1,040 feetSkiable Acres: 167Average annual snowfall: 65 inchesTrail count: 46Lift count: 9 (1 Cabriolet, 2 high-speed quads, 2 fixed-grip quads, 1 triple, 1 double, 2 carpets – view Lift Blog’s inventory of Mountain Creek’s lift fleet)About Big Snow American DreamLocated in: East Rutherford, New JerseyClosest neighboring ski areas: Campgaw, New Jersey (35 minutes); National Winter Activity Center, New Jersey (45 minutes); Mountain Creek, New Jersey (50 minutes); Mount Peter, New York (50 minutes)Pass affiliations: NoneVertical drop: 118 feetSkiable Acres: 4Average annual snowfall: 0 inchesTrail count: 4 (2 green, 1 blue, 1 black)Lift count: 4 (1 quad, 1 poma, 2 carpets - view Lift Blog’s of inventory of Big Snow American Dream’s lift fleet)Why I interviewed himTwenty-five years ago, Vail Resorts was known as “Vail Associates.” The company owned just two mountains: Vail and Beaver Creek, which are essentially right next door to each other in Eagle County, Colorado. The resorts were, as they are today, big, snowy, and fun. But they were not great businesses. Bankruptcy threatened. And the ski media – Skiing, Powder – was mostly dismissive. This was the dawn of the freeskiing era, and the cool kids were running the Circuit of Radness: Snowbird, Squaw, Mammoth, Jackson Hole, Whistler, the Powder Highway. Vail was for suburban dads from Michigan. Beaver Creek was for suburban dads from New York. If you wanted the good stuff, keep moving until you got to Crested Butte or Telluride. Vail was just another big Colorado ski resort, that happened to own another big Colorado ski resort, and that was it.Today, Vail is the largest ski company in history, with (soon to be) 41 resorts scattered across three continents. Its Epic Pass transformed and stabilized the industry. It is impossible to talk about modern lift-served North American skiing without talking about Vail Resorts.There was nothing inevitable about this. Pete Seibert, Vail’s founder, did not enter skiing with some snowy notion of Manifest Destiny. He just wanted to open a great ski resort. It was 18 years from Vail Mountain’s 1962 opening to the opening of Beaver Creek in 1980. It was nearly two more decades until Vail bought Keystone and Breck in 1997. It was 11 more years until the Epic Pass debuted, and a few more before anyone started to pay attention to it.What Snow Partners, led by Joe Hession, is doing right now has echoes of Vail 15 years ago. They are building something. Quietly. Steadily. Like trees growing in a forest. They rise slowly but suddenly they tower over everything.I’m not suggesting that Snow Partners will be the next Vail. That they will buy Revelstoke and Jackson Hole and Alta and launch the Ultimo Pass to compete with Epic and Ikon. What Snow Partners is building is different. Additive. It will likely be the best thing to ever happen to Vail or Alterra. Snow Partners is not digital cameras, here to crush Kodak. They are, rather, skiing’s Ben Franklin, who believed every community in America should have access to books via a lending library. In Snow Partners’ version of the future, every large city in America has access to skiing via an indoor snowdome.This will change everything. Everything. In profound ways that we can only now imagine. The engine of that change will be the tens of millions of potential new skiers that can wander into a Big Snow ski area, learn how to ski, and suddenly train their radar on the mountains. Texas has a population of around 29.5 million people. Florida has about 22 million. Georgia has around 11 million. Those 61.5 million people have zero in-state ski areas between them. They could soon have many. There are countless skiers living in these states now, of course, refugees from the North or people who grew up in ski families. But there are millions more who have never skied or even thought about it, but who would, given the option, at least try it as a novelty. And that novelty may become a hobby, and that hobby may become a lifestyle, and that lifestyle may become an obsession.As anyone reading this knows, there’s a pretty direct line between those first turns and the neverending lines rolling on repeat in your snow-obsessed brain. But you have to link those first couple turns. That’s hard. Most people never get there. And that’s where Big Snow, with its beginner zone loaded with instructors and sculpted terrain features – a system known as Terrain Based Learning – is so interesting. It not only gives people access to snow. It gives people a way to learn to love it, absent the broiling frustration of ropetows and ice and $500 private instructors. It’s a place that creates skiers.This – Big Snow, along with an industry-wide reorientation toward technology – is Hession’s vision. And it is impossible not to believe in his vision. Hession announces in this podcast that the company has secured funding to build multiple Big Snow ski areas within the foreseeable future. The combination of beginner-oriented slopes and simple, affordable packages has proven attractive even in New Jersey, where skiers have access to dozens of outdoor ski areas within a few hours’ drive. It makes money, and the business model is easily repeatable.Mountain Creek, where Hession began working as a parking lot attendant in his teens, is, he says, a passion project. The company is not buying anymore outdoor ski areas. But when Big Snows start minting new skiers by the thousands, and perhaps the millions, they may end up driving the most profound change to outdoor ski areas in decades.What we talked aboutThe nascent uphill scene at Mountain Creek; “most people don’t realize that this is what New Jersey looks like”; celebrating Big Snow’s re-opening; the three things everyone gets wrong about Big Snow; the night of the fire that closed the facility for seven months; how the fire started and what it damaged; three insurance companies walk into a bar…; why six weeks of work closed the facility for more than half a year; staying positive and mission-focused through multiple shutdowns at a historically troubled facility; New Jersey’s enormous diversity; skiing in Central Park?; “we’re creating a ski town culture in the Meadowlands in New Jersey”; everyone loves Big Snow; the story behind creating Big Snow’s beginner-focused business model; why most people don’t have fun skiing and snowboarding; the four kinds of fun; what makes skiing and snowboarding a lifestyle; what Hession got really wrong about lessons; the “haphazard” development of most ski areas; more Big Snows incoming; why Big Snow is a great business from a financial and expense point of view; looking to Top Golf for inspiration on scale and replicability; where we could see the next Big Snow; how many indoor ski domes could the United States handle?; what differentiates Big Snow from Alpine-X; whether future Big Snows will be standalone facilities or attached to larger malls; is American Dream Mall too big to fail?; finding salvation from school struggles as a parking lot attendant at Vernon Valley Great Gorge; Action Park; two future ski industry leaders working the rental shop; Intrawest kicks down the door and rearranges the world overnight; a “complicated” relationship with Mountain Creek; Intrawest’s rapid decline and the fate of Mountain Creek; leaving your dream job; ownership under Crystal Springs; how a three-week vacation will change your life; transforming Terrain Based Learning from a novelty to an empire; “I’ve been fascinated with how you go from working for a company to owning a company”; the far-flung but tightly bound ski industry and how Hession ended up running Big Snow; how much the Big Snow lease costs in a month; an Austin Powers moment; this is a technology company; an anti-kiosk position; the daily capacity of Mountain Creek; buying Mountain Creek; the art of operating a ski area; the biggest mistake most Mountain Creek operators have made; the bargain season pass as business cornerstone; “we were days away from Vail Resorts owning Mountain Creek today”; bankruptcy, Covid, and taking control of Mountain Creek and Big Snow in spite of it all; how much money Mountain Creek brings in in a year; “a lot of people don’t understand how hard it is to run a ski resort”; a monster chairlift project on the Vernon side of Mountain Creek; “a complicated relationship” with the oddest lift in the East ( the cabriolet) and what to do about it; “no one wants to take their skis on and off for a 1,000 feet of vertical”; which lift from Mountain Creek’s ancient past could make a comeback; bringing back the old Granite View and Route 80 trails; why expansion beyond the historic trail network is unlikely anytime soon; Creek’s huge natural snowmaking advantage; why no one at Mountain Creek “gives high-fives before the close of the season”; Hession is “absolutely” committed to stretching Creek’s season as long as possible; the biggest job of a ski resort in the summertime; the man who has blown snow at Mountain Creek for 52 years; whether Snow Operating would ever buy more outdoor ski resorts; “variation is evil”; the large ski resort that Hession tried to buy; “I don’t think anyone can run a massive network of resorts well”; an Applebee’s comparison; whether Mountain Creek or Big Snow could ever join a multi-mountain ski pass; why the M.A.X. Pass was a disaster for Mountain Creek; why Creek promotes the Epic and Ikon Passes on its social channels; changing your narrative; not a b******t mission statement; why the next decade in the ski industry may be the wildest yet; and the Joe P. Hession Foundation.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewI’ll admit that it can be awfully hard to appreciate the potential of Big Snow from the point of view of the casual observer. For anyone living in the New York metro area, the place spent a decade and a half as a vacant laughingstock, a symbol of excess and arrogance, an absurdly expensive novelty that was built, it seemed, just to be torn down. As I wrote last year:On Sept. 29, 2004, a coalition of developers broke ground on a project then known as Meadowlands Xanadu. Built atop a New Jersey swamp and hard by Interstate 95, the garish collection of boxes and ramps with their Romper Room palette could be seen from the upper floors of Manhattan skyscrapers, marooned in their vast asphalt parking lot, an entertainment complex with no one to entertain.It sat empty for years. Crushed, in turn, by incompetence, cost overruns, the Great Recession, lawsuits, and funding issues, the building that would host America’s first indoor ski slope melted into an eternal limbo of ridicule and scorn.I didn’t think it would ever open, and I didn’t understand the point if it did. This is the Northeast – we have no shortage of skiing. At four acres on 160-foot vertical drop, this would instantly become the smallest ski area in nine states. Wow. What’s the next item in your master development plan: an indoor beach in Hawaii?But eventually Big Snow did open: 5,545 days after the center’s groundbreaking. And it was not what I thought it would be. As I wrote the month after it opened:For its potential to pull huge numbers of never-evers into the addictive and thrilling gravitational pull of Planet Ski, Big Snow may end up being the most important ski area on the continent. It is cheap. It is always open. It sits hard against the fourth busiest interstate in the country and is embedded into a metro population of 20 million that has outsized influence on national and global trends. Over the coming decades, this ugly oversized refrigerator may introduce millions of people to the sport.I wrote that on Jan. 13, 2020, two months before Covid would shutter the facility for 177 days. It had only been open 94 days when that happened. Then, 388 days after re-opening on Sept. 1, 2020, fire struck. It caused millions in damage and another 244-day closure. After endless negotiations with insurance companies, Big Snow American Dream finally re-opened last month.So now what? Will this place finally stabilize? What about the disastrous financial state of the mall around it, which has, according to The Wall Street Journal, missed payments on its municipal bonds? Will we see more Big Snows? Will Snow Operating bid on Jay Peak? Will we ever get a real chairlift on Vernon at Mountain Creek? With Big Snow rebooted and live (take three), it was time to focus on the future of Snow Operating. And oh man, buckle up.Questions I wish I’d askedI could have stopped Joe at any time and asked a hundred follow-up questions on any of the dozens of points he made. But there would have been no point in that. He knew what I wanted to discuss, and the narrative is compelling enough on its own, without my input.Why you should ski Mountain Creek and Big SnowBig SnowIf you’re approaching Big Snow from the point of view of a seasoned skier, I want to stop you right there: this is not indoor Aspen. And it’s not pretending to be. Big Snow is skiing’s version of Six Flags. It’s an amusement park. All are welcome, all can participate. It’s affordable. It’s orderly. It’s easy. And it has the potential to become the greatest generator of new skiers since the invention of snow.And that will especially be true if this thing scales in the way that Hession believes it will. Imagine this: you live in Houston. No one in your family skis and so you’ve never thought about skiing. You’ve never even seen snow. You can’t imagine why anyone would ever want to. It looks cold, uncomfortable, exotic as moonrocks, and about as accessible. You’re not a skier and you probably never will be.But, what if Big Snow sprouts out of the ground like a snowy rollercoaster? It’s close. It’s cheap. It could be fun. You and your buddies decide to check it out. Or you take someone there on a date. Or you take your kids there as a distraction. Your lift ticket is well under $100 and includes skis and boots and poles and bindings and a jacket and snowpants (but not, for some reason, gloves), and access to instructors in the Terrain Based Learning area, a series of humps and squiggly snow features that move rookies with the ground beneath them. You enter as a novice and you leave as a skier. You go back. Five or six more times. Then you’re Googling “best skiing USA” and buying an Epic Pass and booking flights for Denver.And if that’s not you, how about this scenario that I face all the time: nonskiers tell me they want to try skiing. Can I take them? Given my background, this would not seem like an irrational request. But I’m not sure where to start. With lift tickets, rentals, and lessons, they’re looking at $150 to $200, plus a long car ride in either direction, just to try something that is cold and frustrating and unpredictable. I’m sure as hell not teaching them. My imagination proves unequal to the request. We don’t go skiing.Big Snow changes that calculus. Solves it. Instantly. Even, as Joe suggests in our interview, in places where you wouldn’t expect it. Denver or Salt Lake City or Minneapolis or Boston. Places that already have plenty of skiing nearby. Why? Well, if you’re in Denver, a snowdome means you don’t have to deal with I-70 or $199 lift tickets or figuring out which of the 100 chairlifts in Summit County would best suite your first ski adventure. You just go to the snowdome.The potential multiplying effect on new skiers is even more substantial when you consider the fact that these things never close. Hession points out that, after decades of refinement and tweaking, Mountain Creek is now finally able to consistently offer 100-day seasons. And given the local weather patterns, that’s actually amazing. But Big Snow – in New Jersey or elsewhere – will be open 365 days per year. That’s three and a half seasons of Mountain Creek, every single year. Multiply that by 10 or 20 or 30 Big Snows, and suddenly the U.S. has far more skiers than anyone ever could have imagined.Mountain CreekThere exists in the Northeast a coterie of unimaginative blockheads who seem to measure their self-worth mostly by the mountains that they dislike. Hunter is a big target. So is Mount Snow. But perhaps no one takes more ridicule, however, than Mountain Creek, that swarming Jersey bump with the shaky financial history and almost total lack of natural snow. Everyone remembers Vernon Valley Great Gorge (as Mountain Creek was once known), and its adjacent summertime operation, the raucous and profoundly dysfunctional Action Park. Or they remember Intrawest leaving Creek at the altar. Or that one time they arrived at Creek at noon on Dec. 29 and couldn’t find a place to park and spent half the afternoon waiting in line to buy a bowl of tomato soup. Or whatever. Now, based on those long-ago notions, they toss insults about Creek in between their Facebook posts from the Jackson Hole tram line or downing vodka shots with their crew, who are called the Drinksmore Boyz or Powder Dogzz or the Legalizerz or some orther poorly spelled compound absurdity anchored in a profound misunderstanding of how impressed society is in general with the antics of men in their 20s. Whatever. I am an unapologetic Mountain Creek fan. I’ve written why many times, but here’s a summary:First, it is close. From my Brooklyn apartment, I can be booting up in an hour and 15 minutes on a weekend morning. It is a bargain. My no-blackout pass for the 2019-20 season was $230. It is deceptively large, stretching two miles from Vernon to Bear Peaks along New Jersey state highway 94. Its just over thousand-foot vertical drop means the runs feel substantial. It has night skiing, making it possible to start my day at my Midtown Manhattan desk job and finish it hooking forty-mile-an-hour turns down a frozen mountainside. The place is quite beautiful. Really. A panorama of rolling hills and farmland stretches northwest off the summit. The snowmaking system is excellent. They opened on November 16 this year and closed on April 7 last season, a by-any-measure horrible winter with too many thaws and wave after wave of base-destroying rain. And, if you know the time and place to go, Mountain Creek can be a hell of a lot of fun, thanks to the grown-up chutes-and-ladders terrain of South Peak, an endless tiered sequence of launchpads, rollers and rails (OK, I don’t ski rails), that will send you caroming down the mountain like an amped-up teenager (I am more than twice as old as any teenager).I don’t have a whole lot to add to that. It’s my home mountain. After spending my first seven ski seasons tooling around Midwest bumps, the glory of having a thousand-footer that near to me will never fade. The place isn’t perfect, of course, and no one is trying to tell that story, including me, as you can see in the full write-up below, but when I only have two or three hours to ski, Creek is an amazing gift that I will never take for granted:Podcast notesHere are a few articles laying out bits of Hession’s history with Mountain Creek:New VP has worked at Creek since his teens – Advertiser-News South, Feb. 22, 2012Mountain Creek Enters Ski Season With New Majority Owner Snow Operating – Northjersey.com, Nov. 23, 2018I’ve written quite a bit about Big Snow and Mountain Creek over the years. Here are a couple of the feature stories:The Curse of Big Snow – Sept. 30, 2021The Most Important Ski Area in America – Jan. 13, 2020This is the fourth podcast I’ve hosted that was at least in part focused on Mountain Creek:Big Snow and Mountain Creek Vice President of Marketing & Sales Hugh Reynolds – March 3, 2020Hermitage Club General Manager Bill Benneyan, who was also a former president, COO, and general manager of Mountain Creek – Dec. 4, 2020Crystal Mountain, Washington President and CEO Frank DeBerry, who was also a former president, COO, and general manager of Mountain Creek – Oct. 22, 2021Here are podcasts I’ve recorded with other industry folks that Hession mentions during our interview:Vail Resorts Rocky Mountain Region Chief Operating Officer and Mountain Division Executive Vice President Bill Rock – June 14, 2022Mountain High and Dodge Ridge President and CEO Karl Kapuscinski - June 10, 2022Alpine-X CEO John Emery – Aug. 4, 2021Fairbank Group Chairman Brian Fairbank – Oct. 16, 2020Killington and Pico President and General Manager Mike Solimano – Oct. 13, 2019Here’s the trailer for HBO’s Class Action Park, the 2020 documentary profiling the old water park on the Mountain Creek (then Vernon Valley-Great Gorge) grounds:Hession mentioned a retired chairlift and retired trails that he’d like to bring back to Mountain Creek:What Hession referred to as “the Galactic Chair” is Lift 9 on the trailmap below, which is from 1989. This would load at the junction of present-day Upper Horizon and Red Fox, and terminate on the landing where the Sojourn Double and Granite Peak Quad currently come together (see current trailmap above). This would give novice skiers a route to lap gentle Osprey and Red Fox, rather than forcing them all onto Lower Horizon all the way back to the Cabriolet. I don’t need to tell any regular Creek skiers how significant this could be in taking pressure off the lower mountain at Vernon/North. Lower Horizon is fairly steep and narrow for a green run, and this could be a compelling alternative, especially if these skiers then had the option of downloading the Cabriolet.Hession also talked about bringing back a pair of intermediate runs. One is Granite View, which is trails 34 (Cop Out), 35 (Fritz’s Folly) and 33 (Rim Run) on Granite Peak below. The trail closed around 2005 or ’06, and bringing it back would restore a welcome alternative for lapping Granite Peak.The second trail that Hession referenced was Route 80 (trail 24 on the Vernon side, running beneath lift 8), which cuts through what is now condos and has been closed for decades. I didn’t even realize it was still there. Talks with the condo association have yielded progress, Hession tells me, and we could see the trail return, providing another connection between Granite and Vernon.Creek skiers are also still obsessed with Pipeline, the double-black visible looker’s right of the Granite lift on this 2015 trailmap:I did not ask Hession about this run because I’d asked Hugh Reynolds about it on the podcast two years ago, and he made it clear that Pipeline was retired and would be as long as he and Hession ran the place.Here are links to a few more items we mentioned in the podcast:The 2019 Vermont Digger article that lists Snow Operating as an interested party in the Jay Peak sale.We talked a bit about the M.A.X. Pass, a short-lived multi-mountain pass that immediately preceded (and was dissolved by), the Ikon Pass. Here’s a list of partner resorts on that pass. Skiers received five days at each, and could add the pass onto a season pass at any partner ski area. This was missing heavies like Jackson Hole, Aspen, and Taos, but it did include some ballers like Big Sky and Killington. Resorts of the Canadian Rockies, which includes Fernie and Kicking Horse and is now aligned with the Epic Pass, was a member, as were a few ski areas that have since eschewed any megapass membership: Whiteface, Gore, Belleayre, Wachusett, Alyeska, Mountain High, Lee Canyon, and Whitewater. Odd as that seems, I’m sure we’ll look back at some of today’s megapass coalitions with shock and longing.This podcast hit paid subscribers’ inboxes on June 19. Free subscribers got it on June 22. To receive future pods as soon as they’re live, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 67/100 in 2022, and number 313 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane). You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

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Podcast #84: Ragged Mountain General Manager Erik Barnes

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 29, 2022 55:33

To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Organizations can email skiing@substack.com to add multiple users on one account at a per-subscriber enterprise rate.WhoErik Barnes, General Manager of Ragged Mountain, New HampshireRecorded onApril 26, 2022About Ragged MountainClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Pacific Group ResortsSummit elevation: 2,286 feet at the top of Pinnacle PeakVertical drop: 1,240 feet Skiable Acres: 250Average annual snowfall: 100 inchesSnowmaking coverage: 85%Trail count: 57 (40% expert/advanced, 30% intermediate, 30% beginner)Terrain parks: 3Lift count: 5 (1 high-speed six-pack, 1 high-speed quad, 1 triple, 2 surface lifts - view Lift Blog’s inventory of Ragged’s lift fleet)Why I interviewed himI usually start with the mountain, but this time I’ll start with the man. Barnes spent 33 years at Mount Snow before landing at Ragged last October. That makes him one of the most seasoned ski area heads in a region where experience matters a hell of a lot. As Vail struggled to fully open and manage its New Hampshire properties last year, little, little-known Ragged seemed to do just fine. Outside of a four-day lift failure in early January, the ski area was staffed up and moving all season, in spite of warm December temps and a stubborn rain-snow line that sopped Ragged while its neighbors just to the north tallied a foot-plus in a series of storms. The ski area’s stability in the maw of all this instability demonstrates the importance of appointing experienced leaders such as Barnes to captain this temperamental region’s ships.And this is a pretty nice little ship. Not a super-yacht or anything, but a solid pleasure cruiser. Ragged has all of the things: glades, detachables, that indie vibe, reasonable prices, and an experienced snowmaking and management team that can keep the boat sailing through the Northeast’s it’s-raining-lava-and-elephant-poop winters.It’s pretty easy for a ski area to get lost in New Hampshire. It’s a great ski state with a lot of great ski areas: Waterville Valley, Loon, Cannon, Bretton Woods, Attitash, Wildcat, Black Mountain, Cranmore, Mount Sunapee, Gunstock. King Pine and Pats Peak are two of the best-run small ski areas in New England. So Ragged has some standing-out to do. It’s doing its best, but it’s one of the state’s least-appreciated spots, and I figured it was time to do some appreciating.What we talked aboutRagged’s 2021-22 weather short straw; back when everyone used to learn on a ropetow and how that went; how you get from ski instructor to general manager of Mount Snow; ski school camaraderie and culture; the distinct culture of Mount Snow and why the ski area has been such an incubator of industry talent; how Mount Snow evolved as it was passed along from SKI to American Skiing Company to Peak Resorts to Vail Resorts; 251 fanguns will change your day; building Mount Snow’s Attack of The Planets snowmaking system and what makes it so powerful; what it takes to open a mountain in October in southern Vermont; Barnes’ reaction when Peak Resorts sold their entire portfolio to Vail; “what do you think?” versus “this is what we’re doing”; the East is a different game, Kids; what Vail needs to do to bring its Northeast ski areas up to standards; the particular challenges of running oft-bankrupted and frequently shuffled Ragged Mountain; Ragged’s unique snowmaking and snow-management systems; why Ragged didn’t suffer the same staffing challenges as other New England resorts this past season; how the ski area will respond to Vail’s new $20-an-hour minimum wage; a primer on Ragged owner Pacific Resorts Group and its five ski areas; the insane expenses of lift maintenance; an update on the Pinnacle Peak and beginner area expansions; how much land Ragged owns and what the eventual expansion options look like; Ragged’s big-bomber high-speed lift fleet; the importance of redundancy; whether we could ever see a surface lift serving the Wildside terrain park; Ragged’s extensive, wildly fun, and ever-growing glade network; whether we could ever see night skiing at Ragged; long-term snowmaking upgrades; the ski area’s Mission: Affordable season pass; whether Ragged could ever add reciprocal season pass partner deals, as its sister resort, Powderhorn in Colorado, has done; and whether Ragged has considered joining the Indy Pass. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewBecause it’s been nagging at me for years: this “FUTURE EXPANSION” promised on two sides of the ski area on Ragged’s old trailmaps:I see something like this and I become 7 years old. When will it happen? When will it happen? When will it happen? When will it happen? When will it happen? When will it happen? When will it happen? It’s insane. I won’t say that this particular expansion nag is why I started the podcast, but I will say that things like this are exactly why The Storm exists: I am obsessed with the long-term evolution of lift-served ski areas, more immersed, at times, in what a thing could be than what it actually is. This one is particularly compelling, for a number of reasons. First, the trails are already cut, and have been for years:Second, Ragged has done a better job than just about any ski area in New England outside of northern Vermont in developing a balanced ski experience. Loon is a big, well-appointed mountain, but it lacks a strong glade network (which is odd, considering Boyne’s strength in this area up at Sugarloaf). Okemo and Mount Snow host the largest collection of intermediate groomers on planet Earth. Ragged could be a smaller version of this, a glide-and-fly bump for families and the opening-bell groomer brigades. But the ski area makes the most of its two little mountains, and it’s fun to assume that it would develop Pinnacle Peak in the same manner.Ragged is interesting in a lot of other ways. What’s with this weird little conglomerate that owns ski areas in New Hampshire, Maryland, Virginia, Colorado, and coastal BC? That sounds more like a rich person’s inventory of second homes than a logical network of ski resorts. And what’s with the cheapo season pass? And why doesn’t it have a network of reciprocals like sister resort Powderhorn? And oh by the way when will Pinnacle Peak happen? When? When, man? JUST TELL ME AND I’LL STOP ASKING!He didn’t tell me.Questions I wish I’d askedYou know, I didn’t ask what it felt like to leave Mount Snow after 33 years, and I should have. I didn’t ask why Barnes left the mountain, because it was pretty obvious. The new owners, Vail, shuffled executives, as new corporate owners of new corporate things often do. I figured there was no point in dwelling on it. The Storm is sometimes deferential to or critical of the past, but it is mostly about the now and the what’s-to-come (I said mostly, Annoyingly Correct Bro). But it was obvious – in the way Barnes talked about Mount Snow and his time there and the people he worked with and the modern machine that he had helped evolve it into – that this was a man connected to his mountain in a way you might be connected to a kid or a home or a really great dog. He would not have left it on purpose. That was a story that would have been worth getting into, and it was a failure on my part not to.What I got wrongI mentioned the power of Mount Snow’s snowmaking system, and intimated that they were “the first in the Northeast to really build out” such a system. There’s a lot of nuance to that statement, and the way I framed it in the podcast wasn’t clear at all. Here’s what I meant: while every large resort in the Northeast has a snowmaking system that could blow the doors off of any 5,000-acre western rambler, Mount Snow’s is one of the most modern and efficient, able to make the most of its water in a way that is more advanced than many of its competitors (though that gap shrinks yearly as all of the big Northeast mountains continuously upgrade their snowmaking arsenals).I also stated that this was Vail’s fourth season of operating the former Peak Resorts, when it was actually their third, after acquiring the portfolio in July 2019. I also asked Barnes to tell us about Pacific Resorts Group and the five different ski areas that it owns “around the country.” Only four of their resorts are in the United States, however – the other is in British Columbia, Canada.I didn’t get this wrong, but a lot of New England people will accuse me of doing so: I stated that the region did not have the rabid night-skiing culture that the Midwest does. This is true. While Southern New England does feature several extensive night-skiing operations, the total number of ski areas, and the total hours that they operate after dark, are far less numerous than in the Midwest, where nearly 100 percent of the ski areas offer night skiing across 100 percent of their terrain seven nights per week from December to March.Why you should ski Ragged MountainSecrets are a little easier to come by in the West, where bigness is the default and out-of-staters fly by the off-brands to cash in their Epkon coupons at the headliners. Take Sunlight, Colorado, for example, 2,000 vertical feet fading into the rear-views of the Aspen-bound. Or Sugar Bowl, 1,650 acres and 500 inches of snow served by five high-speed quads half an hour closer to San Fran than Palisades Tahoe or Northstar. That’s a little tougher in the East, where the drop-off is fairly severe between the chest-thumbing 2,000-foot bad boy bristling with detachables and the family-owned 500-footer served by a single double chair that’s older than plant life.But there are a few big-but-mine-all-mine-evil-cackling-laugh ski areas dotted around the East. Burke, 2,000 empty vertical feet of goldmine glades served by two high-speed quads just a few miles off (a very remote section of) I-91. Saddleback, modernized and re-opened and glorious with fall lines and glades of all kinds, but far enough out in the wilderness that you have to be careful you don’t turn the wrong way off the edge of the planet on your way to the hill.And Ragged. For 20 years, there has been exactly one six-place detachable chairlift in New Hampshire, and it’s at Ragged Mountain, serving one of two glade-laced peaks. Serving the other, exactly adjacent glade-laced peak is an eight-year-old high-speed quad. There’s a whole complex of beginner lifts at the bottom for kids or whatever you call them. Lift tickets sit comfortably below triple digits. The season pass is one of the cheapest in New England, debuting this year at just $379 (it’s now $479 through Sept. 5). All this sits about equidistant between Interstates 89 and 93.So what gives? How come skiers tend to blow right past Ragged on their way to Waterville Valley or Loon or Cannon? Well, those ski areas are bigger and, despite being farther from Boston, easier to get to, as they’re mostly right off Interstate 93. Each of them tops 2,000 feet of vert and tends to draw more snow than Ragged. Either state- or corporate-owned for decades, New Hampshire’s big resorts have been well-tended-to and well-taken care of, stable wintertime draws for basically the entire history of lift-served skiing.But Pacific Resorts Group, which added Ragged to its far-flung, five-resort network back in 2007, has brought much-needed stability to this rad little mountain. The company has continued to improve the property, cutting new glades and upgrading the lifts. Long-term, they intend to expand onto a third mountain, Pinnacle Peak (as I may have mentioned above), and trails are already cut (also mentioned above). In Barnes, Ragged has one of the most experienced and well-liked ski area managers in the region. As megapass mania transforms the character of many of New Hampshire’s beloved ski areas, sending refugees scrambling for alternatives, Ragged is poised to become something big. Go there before that happens.More RaggedThe excellent New England Ski History website has pages on just about any operating or lost ski area in the region, including Ragged.New England Ski Journal TV visited Ragged back in 2016:Ragged’s dense glade network speaks to the mountain’s long-established identity. Decades before thinned tree runs became ski area mainstays, Ragged called out a cluster of upper-mountain glades on this 1969 trailmap:This has nothing to do with Ragged, but while researching this article, I came across this amazing trailmap of nearby (and now lost) King Ridge ski area. I really have no idea what the hell is going on here, but it makes me vaguely miss the ‘90s, the last decade before the world hyper-connected itself into a bottomless information and ridicule machine and it was possible for absurd things like this to exist in glorious obscurity:The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 46/100 in 2022. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer. You can also email skiing@substack.com. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Powder Hounds Ski Trivia Podcast Episode 33 - 2nd Annual March Mogul Madness - Vermont! (March 22, 2022)

Powder Hounds Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2022 108:57

The 2nd Annual March Mogul Madness episode takes place in the Green Mountain State of Vermont. My OG, original ski partner in crime, Erik Lundquist, of Good in the Woods Productions, joins me for a long overdue conversation on the greatness that is skiing in Vermont. We wax poetic about our early ski days, college hoops, questionable 90s-era ski gear and awful attire, as we attempt to make inside jokes play well on the podcast (they don't/won't). The 8 ski areas in the year's bracket are Jay Peak, Killington, Mad River Glen, Mount Snow, Okemo, Stratton, Stowe, and Sugarbush. The trivia games include Vermont Spring Skiing Traditions, and five mostly obscure questions about each ski area. I promise, you will learn a thing or two about Vermont skiing. A Final “Jeff-Pardy” Question awaits Erik as he positions himself for a run at the all-time March Mogul Madness Trivia Points Leader! But first, Erik gets worked a bit; and I definitely owe him a Single Chair or Tram Ale. Which will it be? Find out in this Mogul Madness episode!

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MERCEDES ORTEGA WITH MORE THAN ENOUGH PIE! (Rewind - Repost Season 1 Episode 2))

The Brattleboro Historical Society Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 20, 2022 47:14

We've got a Rewind- Repost for you this Sunday!Park Affair got a sweet write up in Slush The Magazine - and we thought you need this POD in your lyfe again.

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BHS e340-Mount Snow and the Atom Bomb

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 19, 2022 4:42

Mount Snow is located in West Dover, Vermont. Over the years it has had a large impact on the local economy. In this podcast we share the history of its origins and recent Olympic connections.

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Podcast #65: Wachusett Mountain President Jeff Crowley

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2021 102:27

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette - Listen to the podcast for discount codes on subscriptions and merch.WhoJeff Crowley, President of Wachusett Mountain, MassachusettsRecorded onNovember 29, 2021Why I interviewed himWhen the Crowleys showed up at “Mt. Wachusett Ski Area” in 1969, the place looked like any of the hundred-plus rinky-dink operations dotting the state at the time:Like subsistence farmers coaxing shoots from cracked earth in some pre-industrial past, Wachusett and its kin eked out a seasonal living. Simple operations powered by simple machines and whatever fell from the sky. Most failed. Wachusett thrived. Today, it looks like this:As I’ve written about other regionally beloved ski areas that persisted as their neighbors disappeared into the wilderness - Plattekill, Jiminy Peak - there was nothing inevitable about this. The Crowleys made it happen. Wachusett is not merely a survivor. It is one of the most successful ski areas in the country. Beloved and profitable, it hosts more than 400,000 annual skier visits on 130-ish acres. That’s only 50,000 fewer than 3,000-acre Whitefish. And yet, it works. The place is an absolute machine, every part of the experience optimized and streamlined, the relentless focus on one thing: to get as many people as possible skiing as much as possible.What we talked aboutWachusett ranked ahead of Stowe on Ski’s reader poll; opening weekend 2021; how a Massachusetts ski area beats so many larger, farther-north ski areas to open year after year; “we’re all crazy” at Wachusett; what the mountain looked like when the Crowleys showed up in 1969; the ski area’s Civilian Conservation Corps legacy; the oldest trail on the mountain; how Wachusett thrived as so many other Massachusetts ski areas failed; how a day skiing at Mount Snow inspired Ralph Crowley to buy Wachusett; how it feels when your dad buys a ski area; a cross-country adventure in lift installation; why Wachusett is likely to be a family-run operation for the foreseeable future; the Wachusett diaspora; the origins of Wa-Wa-Wachusett:…400,000-plus skier visits on a 130-acre ski area and the Wachusett MACHINE; climate-proofing the ski area; the irrepressible Worcester ski culture; the Wachusett you encounter will depend upon the time of day you show up; the importance of local ski journalism and what we lose when it fades; the vertical-drop and French fry battles between Berkshire East and Wachusett; how turmoil over old-growth forest near the mountain’s summit set the ski area’s modern footprint; why Wachusett doesn’t have marked glades; whether the ski area could ever lose its lease; what the ski area is considering as a replacement for its summit lift; sponsored chairlifts; why Wachusett installed a 300-vertical-foot high-speed quad; where the old Monadnock lift went; the Vickery Bowl expansion; whether the ski area could ever expand again; how Wachusett helps preserve land all over the state; why the mountain grooms twice per day; why the ski area will continue making snow into the end of March; beating Killington to open in 2020; that one time you could ski in May in Massachusetts; why the mountain continued to limit season pass sales and cut the ski day into sessions for 2021-22, and whether those changes will persist; keeping lift-ticket prices low; reciprocal season-pass partners; why Wachusett didn’t migrate from the MAX Pass to the Ikon Pass; whether the mountain could ever join another multi-mountain pass; reaction to the advent of the Epkon passes in New England; why Wachusett pass sales persist in this environment; you won’t believe the ski area that Wachusett bid on last year; and why Crowley thinks I should buy a ski area and why I probably never will.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewBecause from my seat, it doesn’t make sense: the Epkon passes keep getting more affordable, their kingdoms spreading like videogame emperors, and Wachusett doesn’t flinch. It was on a megapass and the megapass disappeared and the mountain didn’t join another one. They’re just like, “nah we’re good.” But in an accent impossible to imitate and designed to make me look ridiculous if I tried. Wachusett just keeps going. A third-grade bubblegum-wrapper detective could figure out why: great location, good managers, rabid local skiers. Fine. It’s still surrounded by abandoned ski areas. What makes this place special, a true independent independent in an era of consolidation and backed-into-a-corner coalition building? Listen to Crowley and you’ll get it pretty quick. I sure did.What I got wrongI said on the podcast that Jiminy Peak and Pats Peak had lift-ticket prices exceeding $100. This is incorrect. Jiminy Peak’s top rate for the 2021-22 ski season is $99. Pats Peak tops out at $89. I also referred to Connecticut’s Woodbury ski area as “Middlebury,” making my second ridiculous yeah-I’m-not-from-New-England mistake in as many weeks.Why you should ski WachusettWell, if you live in eastern Massachusetts, the answer is pretty straightforward: because it’s right there, a thousand-footer parked in your backyard. High-speed lifts and twice-a-day grooming and ticket/pass prices that are entirely reasonable. No well-I-guess-I-don’t-really-need-my-kidney-medication sticker-shock here. Even the cafeteria is affordable. It’s the same reason I ski Mountain Creek from my perch in New York City – there’s no reason not to.If you’re anyone else, from anywhere else, there are infinite other reasons why Wachusett may appeal to you: to support a family-owned business, to be part of the mania, to witness The MACHINE. I don’t know. I figured out a while ago that I could spend the rest of my lift skiing the same six ski areas in Vermont that everyone else did, or I could explore a little. I’m having a lot more fun since I decided on the latter path. Five Star Recommend. Just go.Additional reading/videosLift Blog’s inventory of Wachusett’s lift fleetHistoric Wachusett trailmaps on skimap.orgWachusett perennially appears among the top 20 resorts on Ski magazine’s Eastern resort rankings - it nabbed the No. 15 spot this yearLongtime Worcester Telegram & Gazette snowsports columnist Shaun Sutner appeared on the podcast last week, and we discussed Wachusett and Worcester at length. His first column this season focuses on the next-generation of family managers set to guide the ski area into the future.Crowley and I discussed: what is the real vertical drop of Berkshire East (1,180 feet advertised), and Wachusett (1,000 feet advertised)?Support The Storm by shopping at our partners: Patagonia | Helly Hansen | Rossignol | Salomon | Utah Skis | Berg’s Ski and Snowboard Shop | Peter Glenn | Kemper Snowboards | Gravity Coalition | Darn Tough | Skier's Peak | Hagan Ski Mountaineering | Moosejaw | Skis.com |The House | Telos Snowboards | Christy Sports | Evo | Hotels Combined | Black Diamond | Eastern Mountain Sports Subscribe at www.stormskiing.com

Podcast #64: Worcester Telegram & Gazette Snowsports Columnist Shaun Sutner

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2021 110:02

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette - Listen to the podcast for discount codes on subscriptions and merch.WhoShaun Sutner, snowsports columnist for the Worcester Telegram & Gazette and Telegram.comRecorded onNovember 22, 2021Why I interviewed himBecause for skiing to thrive, it needs ski media to help tell its story. And I mean actual reporting-based journalism. Yes, it needs the hype – the cliff drops, the pow shots, the flippidy-doodle park brahs, this:But it also needs writers who can tell the story of the more approachable lift-served skiing world in which most of us dwell. Writers who know the local markets and local owners and local skiers and local idiosyncrasies. In the great ski media wipeout that swept away the bulk of our U.S. magazines, we also lost a lot of local ski beats. This matters. Good journalism, grounded in relationships and research, can counterbalance the noisy and atrocious swirl of social-media garbage that has become many skier’s primary information source about the sport.Sutner provides this corrective. In a snowsports column he has written for nearly two decades, he explores the world of New England skiing from his Worcester, Massachusetts base. He knows the people who run the ski areas, understands the market dynamics driving the sport’s evolution, and skis 80 days a year on the mountains he writes about. He knows the uphill and the downhill, the groomers and the backcountry, the people who can show him the stashes in all of them. There is nobody better equipped to help us understand what New England skiing is, how it became that, and what it might be in the future.What we talked aboutI can’t pronounce “Worcester”; the appeal of New England skiing; Southeast and Mid-Atlantic ski culture; Sutner’s long-running Telegram snowsports column; it’s beef time, snowshoers; what skiing loses when local journalism shrivels; the amazing snowy ski town that is Worcester; the slick operation at Wachusett; journalism’s rough transition to digital; newspaper paywalls; how to ski 80 days a year with a full-time job; surveying the Massachusetts ski landscape; the rise of Berkshire East; the renaissance at Catamount; the art of dodging large crowds at Stowe, Mount Snow, Loon, Cannon, and other busy mountains; regional ski passes; the Berkshire East-Wachusett French fry beef; you won’t believe which Massachusetts ski area has the highest base elevation in the state; thoughts on the state’s lost ski areas – Mount Tom, Pine Ridge, Brodie, Blandford, Mt. Watatic; the most endangered ski area in Massachusetts; the resilience of the Connecticut ski scene; Worcester’s cross-country ski park; the fate of Worcester’s once-thriving network of ropetow bumps; how Ski Ward endures; the distinct ski areas of North Conway; the explosion of the Mount Washington backcountry ski scene; the North Conway-Worcester connection; the appeal and frustrations of Attitash; brainstorming solutions for the atrocious summit triple; Vail Resorts’ evolving uphill policies; the odds that currently proposed expansions at Gunstock, Ragged, Sunapee, and Waterville Valley succeed; the buzz around Ragged; thoughts on Loon’s new eight-pack; the right balance between uphill and downhill capacity; Loon’s undersized gondola; the twisted history and fate of Tenney; whether Les Otten’s huge ski area development at The Balsams could succeed; the secret behind Magic’s comeback; beef with Mad River Glen; thoughts on the evolution of Stowe under Vail; how the Indy, Epic, and Ikon passes have changed New England skiing for the better; whether Vail’s crowd-management efforts will be enough to offset exploding Epic Pass sales; why the success of Hermitage Club matters to the average skier; whether the club will succeed this time; Boyne’s purchase of Shawnee Peak; the revitalizations of Saddleback and Bosquet under socially conscious investment groups; and Vail Mountain versus Beaver CreekWhy I thought that now was a good time for this interviewBecause Sutner’s column begins every year on Thanksgiving week, just as the Northeast ski season (typically) ramps up in earnest. It seemed like a good time to survey the happenings of New England skiing, from the concussive impacts of the Epic and Ikon Passes to New Hampshire resort expansions to the diligent multi-generational families running Massachusetts ski areas. And I wanted to help promote his column, a fine piece of weekly journalism that will make your ski season better.What I got wrongDuring the interview, I estimated the number of ski areas in New England to be “80 or 90 or maybe more.” The correct number is 90, according to the National Ski Areas Association.Why you should read Sutner’s columnBecause it’s focused, intelligent, researched, fact-checked, spell-checked, and generally just the sort of professional-level writing that is increasingly subsumed by the LOLing babble of the emojisphere. That’s fine – everyone is lost in the scroll. But as the pillars of ski journalism burn and topple around us, it’s worth supporting whatever’s left. Gannett, the parent company of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette, has imposed fairly stringent paywalls on his work. While I think these local papers are best served by offering a handful of free articles per month, the paper is worth supporting if it’s your local – in the same way you might buy a local ski pass to complement your Epkon Pass. Good, consistent writing is not so easy to find. Sutner delivers. Support his craft.Where you can read Sutner’s columnSutner’s column kicks off Thanksgiving week each year and runs until April. This season’s inaugural edition, released yesterday, starts, as usual, close to his home base of Worcester. A preview:The last time I checked in with Chris Stimpson in this column he was a University of Vermont student on a barnstorming van tour of Western ski areas with a band of fellow collegiate free skiers.Stimpson, now 28, is the new media spokesman and public relations manager for Wachusett Mountain Ski Area as of this season, and also serves as the ski area’s terrain park manager. He’s part of a group of third-generation Crowley family members who occupy key roles at the thriving family business founded by their grandfather, Ralph Crowley, in 1969.Stimpson’s cousin David Crowley Jr. is the operations manager, and cousin Courtney Crowley is the new head of group sales. …What this generational shift in the making means for Wachusett customers is that the independent ski area is in solid, experienced family hands for the future and is not likely to ever be sold off to a big corporate chain.Read more…A few of Sutner’s past columns:Earliest Ski-Area Opening in Northeast Goes to Wachusett (Nov. 27, 2020)Winchester a Fresh Voice on Northeast Ski Scene (Dec. 9, 2020)New Hampshire’s Black Mountain ‘Is Like a Trip into the Past’ (Feb. 17, 2021)Ski Industry Makes Strides Toward Inclusion (March 31, 2021)Follow up on stuff we talked about in the interviewFollow Shaun on Twitter, Instagram, and FacebookShaun and I discussed this lost ski area in Van Cortland Park in The Bronx. A ropetow operation may have also briefly existed in Queens.We also talked about the story I had yet to write about a new owner buying Woodbury ski area in Connecticut – that story is here.Shaun talked about the lost Mt. Atatic Ski area - it looks like a cool little operation. Here’s a great write-up about the backcountry scene there on Lift Line Blog.Shaun references the Wa-Wa-Wachusett theme song in our interview. Here you go:Support The Storm by shopping at our partners:Patagonia | Helly Hansen | Rossignol | Salomon | Utah Skis | Berg’s Ski and Snowboard Shop | Peter Glenn | Kemper Snowboards | Gravity Coalition | Darn Tough | Skier's Peak | Hagan Ski Mountaineering | Moosejaw | Skis.com |The House | Telos Snowboards | Christy Sports | Evo | Hotels Combined | Black Diamond | Eastern Mountain Sports Subscribe at www.stormskiing.com

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Podcast #60: Vail Resorts Eastern Region VP & COO Tim Baker

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2021 65:39

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette - Listen to the podcast for discount codes on subscriptions and merch.WhoTim Baker, Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of Vail Resorts’ Eastern Region. His territory includes Wildcat, Attitash, Mount Sunapee, and Crotched in New Hampshire; Stowe, Okemo, and Mount Snow in Vermont; Hunter Mountain in New York; Jack Frost, Big Boulder, Liberty, Roundtop, and Whitetail in Pennsylvania; Mad River, Alpine Valley, Boston Mills, and Brandywine in Ohio; Mount Brighton in Michigan; Paoli Peaks in Indiana; Wilmot in Wisconsin; Afton Alps in Minnesota; and Hidden Valley and Snow Creek in Missouri.Recorded onNovember 1, 2021Why I interviewed himBecause Vail, suddenly and indisputably, is the new king of Northeast skiing. In three surprise acquisitions between February 2017 and July 2019, the Colorado-based company vacuumed up four ski areas in New Hampshire, three in Vermont, one in New York, and five in Pennsylvania. It changed everything. Immediately. A ski region puttering along on the decades-old model of $1,500 single-mountain season passes found itself in a cage match with the feisty Epic Pass – Vail instantly dropped Stowe’s season pass price from just over $2,300 to around $800. The ink wasn’t dry on the contract before Sugarbush dropped its pass price by 30 percent. At least seven other Vermont ski areas followed, to varying degrees. Former Sugarbush owner Win Smith cited Vail’s purchase of the 17-mountain Peak Resorts portfolio, just over two years later, as one of his primary motivations for selling the mountain to Alterra. Empire established, Vail popped open the nuclear suitcase with a pair of Northeast-specific Epic Passes that undercut even most family-owned single-lifters. For skiers, the direct and indirect impacts of this takeover are widespread and mostly positive. Northeast season passes haven’t been this affordable in decades. Almost any resort of size or note that didn’t get swept up by Vail joined the Ikon or Indy passes, meaning skiers can now access 26 of New England’s best ski areas on just three passes. A savvy early-season shopper who grabbed a $359 Northeast Epic Midweek pass, a $729 Ikon Base Pass, and a $279 Indy Pass can resort-hop the Northeast all season – and tack on a Western trip or two – for just $1,367. In 2016, a season pass to Stratton – just Stratton – was $1,199. Okemo, which likely included some level of Mount Sunapee access – was $1,619. Imagine? A month’s mortgage payment for nothing more than 8,000 miles of Okemo groomers. No more. Frequent skiers who think ahead have never had more options across a broader spectrum of the ski landscape. They have Vail to thank for that, whether they like it or not.What we talked aboutLife in the National Football League; growing up as a skier in West Texas; Vail Resorts in its real estate development days; the value of candid feedback; the special challenges of working at Beaver Creek and Crested Butte; how do deal with the great migration to the mountains over the long term; Vail’s institutional enthusiasm for its Eastern expansion; the “intense love” of Midwestern and Northeastern skiers and riders; how the different sorts of resorts in Vail’s vast portfolio works together; whether Vail is open to more acquisitions in the Northeast or Midwest; if they’re bidding for Jay Peak; what Vail looks for in a new mountain; whether the Epic Pass could add partners – à la Telluride or Sun Valley in the West – in the East; integrating Vail’s Eastern resorts within the company’s culture; adapting to Eastern weather; why Vail offers Northeast-specific Epic Passes; a brief history of the Epic Pass from someone who saw it emerge first-hand; broadening the season pass beyond the interests of a small group of locals; how the Epic Pass and its early deadlines helped stabilize a traditionally fickle industry; why Vail isn’t concerned about crowding even after the 20 percent price drop and booming Epic Pass sales; why Vail is still selling expensive day tickets even as its Epic Day Pass product offers the same access for a fraction of the cost; why Vail discarded the reservation system that it developed for the 2020-21 ski season; the transformative lift upgrade in progress at Okemo; why Vail isn’t worried about overcrowding with a half-dozen high-speed lifts now at the ski area; the new six-packs coming to Mount Snow and Stowe; the status of the Mount Sunapee expansion; why Vail prioritized upgrading the beginner double-double and whether they’re considering an upgrade to the summit triple; details on the Wildcat Express upgrade; whether Wildcat will return to its former commitment to the long season; why Vail is replacing the double-triple at Jack Frost with a quad and how that will increase uphill capacity; determining what to replace on a small hill with a dozen or more antique lifts; and Afton Alps’ mammoth, antique lift fleet and why Vail has no intentions to upgrade it anytime soon.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewBecause if we thought Vail went nuclear with Northeast-specific Epic Passes, it went – what’s after nuclear? Super nuclear? It went super nuclear with 20 percent Epic Pass price drops last spring. While Vail’s competitors, flush from a Covid-charged burst in season pass sales, did not respond with price drops of their own (yet), the surprise move did hit big. First, Epic Pass sales exploded 67 percent compared to last year. It’s impossible to say, at this point, whether those sales came at the expense of other ski area operators’ pass sales, or if, as Vail claims, a large chunk of those are skiers who used to buy lift tickets switching to Epic Day Passes. Either way, Vail’s huge price drops, combined with its decision last spring to ditch its pandemic-era reservation system, have catalyzed concerns about overcrowding once the lifts start spinning.At the same time, Vail is launching the first phases of a gut renovation of its Northeast properties, starting with a monster lift project that will drop new six-packs on Stowe and Mount Snow and materially change the ski-day experience at many of its mountains across the region. Okemo will have a massive lift overhaul in place for this season. Nearly five years after kicking the Northeast door down with the Stowe purchase, Vail is settling into the the region and sending the very clear message that the East is a huge and growing priority for the company. I wanted to get Tim’s insight into how Vail planned to manage crowds, why the company focused investment where it did, and what may be next for the ever-growing king of lift-served skiing.Questions I wish I’d askedI had planned to ask about longer-term plans for upgrading Wildcat’s fleet of aging triples, any plans for Hunter mountain, why Vail isn’t taking a Mount Brighton-style demolition derby approach to its antique Ohio and Pennsylvania mountains, Vail’s vaccine mandate, Powdr’s Fast Tracks program, and a few other items, but we squeezed as much as we could into an hour. Considering the size of Tim’s realm, I think we covered quite a bit of the most important things.Why you should ski Vail EastLet me start with this: having the largest collection of ski areas in the East is not the same as having the best collection of ski areas in the East. The Ikon Pass’ seven New England ski areas – Sugarbush, Killington, Pico, Stratton, Loon, Sugarloaf, and Sunday River – are a far more interesting set of mountains than Vail’s: Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow, Wildcat, Attitash, Mount Sunapee, and Crotched. The reason is simple: these particular Ikon mountains, in general, do a far better job of curating a balanced skier experience than the New England Epic mountains (they also tend to stay open later, with Sugarbush, Sugarloaf, and Sunday River aiming for May closings, and Killington typically shooting for June). Stowe is, without question, outstanding, as good a mountain as you’ll find in the Northeast, nearly without peer. Okemo and Mount Snow, however, are deeply flawed operations – they likely have the highest grooming-to-total-terrain ratio of any large mountains in North America. This serves their demographic of big-city-intermediates-who-think-they’re-experts well. The rest of us are left begging for more terrain variety, a bit less grooming, a lot more glading. Again, Vail inherited these mountains, and my expectation is that the company will eventually nudge them into a 21st century terrain philosophy (which all of their Western mountains follow). For now, the expert Epic skier really has little compelling terrain beyond Stowe and Wildcat, with a little Attitash and Sunapee when conditions are good. If Vail has an opportunity to buy Jay Peak, Smugglers’ Notch, or, eventually, Saddleback, they should do it, as adding any of these would help immensely in correcting this imbalance.All that said, most skiers are not experts and do not care about my preoccupation with a balanced mountain. For those folks, for families, for explorers, for the midweek cruisers or the early-morning corduroy-chasers, Vail’s sprawling empire is almost too good to be believed. The Midwest and Pennsylvania mountains give desk-chained cityfolk a way to make midweek turns. Hunter is one of the largest ski areas in New York State and just over two hours from Manhattan. Mount Snow has probably the best terrain park in the East, and one of the best in the entire country. Okemo – the second-busiest ski area in the Northeast, behind only Killington – is absolutely huge (all the more reason they can probably let a bit of it stay wild). Crotched has one of the wildest night-skiing scenes in the region.All of which, when combined with the Western access included on an Epic or Epic Local Pass, makes it almost impossible not to buy some version of this pass if you live anywhere from Philadelphia north.Additional ResourcesVail buys Stowe (Feb. 22, 2017)Vail buys Triple Peaks (June 4, 2018)Vail buys Peak Resorts (July 22, 2019)Vail buys Wilmot (Jan. 19, 2016)Vail buys Mount Brighton (Dec. 12, 2012)Reflections on Vail buying Afton AlpsLift Blog’s lift inventory for:VermontStoweOkemoMount SnowNew HampshireWildcatAttitashMount SunapeeCrotchedNew YorkHunterPennsylvaniaJack FrostBig BoulderWhitetailRoundtopLibertyOhioBoston MillsBrandywineAlpine ValleyMad RiverIndianaPaoli PeaksMichiganMount BrightonWisconsinWilmotMinnesotaAfton AlpsMissouriHidden ValleySnow Creek is one of the very few U.S. ski areas the site has not inventoried yet Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

Podcast #55: China Peak, California CEO Tim Cohee

FasCat Cycling Training Tips Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 8, 2021 77:20

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette - Listen to the podcast for discount codes on subscriptions and merch.WhoTim Cohee, Managing Partner, CEO, and General Manager of China Peak Mountain Resort, CaliforniaRecorded onSeptember 28, 2021Why I interviewed himBecause China Peak, an independent operation situated on the Southwest side of California’s Sierra Nevada mountains, sits at the bullseye of multiple issues shaping the modern lift-served skiing landscape. Climate change is descending in all seasons: seven winter snow droughts in the past 10 years; wildfire scraping the resort’s edges and damaging buildings in 2020. The mega-resorts with their super-cheap megapasses beckon the local Fresno skiers that are China Peak’s core constituency. And not just California’s many Epic and Ikon gems – Palisades Tahoe, Kirkwood, Heavenly, Northstar – but the resorts dotted all around the West – it takes the same amount of time to fly to Salt Lake City from Fresno as it does to drive to China Peak. But, like most mid-sized ski areas around the country, China Peak is stamping out a model to survive and hopefully thrive in this era of consolidation, cheap travel, and climate catastrophe: banding together with other independent mountains on the Indy Pass and Powder Alliance, and investing in a powerful New England-style snowmaking system capable of burying the place and (hopefully) fending off fires. And if you’re going to initiate such massive and dramatic change, it helps to have a charismatic leader with more than 40 years of experience dealing with every possible circumstance a snowy mountain can churn out. Skiing needs the China Peaks to thrive if skiing itself is to survive long-term, and I wanted to see how Cohee planned to do that.What we talked aboutThe Southern California ski scene in the 1970s; the Cohee family ski diaspora and their potential future at China Peak; the 1970s vacuum in ski-area marketing; the surreal reality of Southern California skiing; when the massive city below doesn’t know about the abundant skiing in the mountains above; what it took to get same-day snow conditions video from the mountain to the local news station 40 years ago; working for Bill Killebrew at Heavenly; the smartest guy in the history of skiing; quadrupling skier visits at Bear Mountain né Goldmine; how “skiing’s dream team” emerged from a 1990s version of Bear Mountain to run some of the largest ski areas in the country; moving east and working under Les Otten in the heyday of the American Skiing Company; reviving a declining Kirkwood; leaving the ski area after 17 years to buy China Peak (known at the time as Sierra Summit); what happens when a ski area ignores the customer; How and why China Peak overhauled its snowmaking system and how that’s going to change the resort; and what happens when your snowmaking manager quits over Christmas break.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewFor most of its first two years, The Storm Skiing Podcast focused mostly on the Northeast. In order to capture the true breadth and spirit of the region, it was important to me to maintain a balance between monster, conglomerate-owned ski areas and the-owner-drives-the-Snowcat family-owned hills. So episodes featuring Killington, Sunday River, Sugarbush, Sugarloaf, Loon, and Mount Snow lived alongside interviews with the folks running Plattekill, Berkshire East, Bolton Valley, Titus, Whaleback, Mad River Glen, and Lonesome Pine. The ski world is big and messy, and the podcast had to reflect that.As I expand the pod’s focus from the Northeast to the entire country, I will deliberately follow that same template. My first two western interviews – Taos and Aspen – are ski-world A-listers, checkbox items for the Ikon set, places with deep resonance and meaning for generations of locals and tourists. China Peak is something different. Once knowns as Sierra Summit, it’s a local bump that no one’s flying across the country to ski. But that’s exactly why I’m here: what the hell is this place, this mysterious Indy Pass partner wading in a purgatory south of the Sierra badboys? It’s been there for 63 years and no one outside of Fresno has ever heard of it. But like all ski areas, it means a tremendous amount to a lot of people out there, and it’s an important part of this American ski story that I’m trying to tell.Questions I wish I’d askedFor a typical Storm Skiing Podcast interview, I’ll write 25 to 30 questions and manage to get to around 80 percent of them. This time, I got through six. Cohee’s 40-plus-year journey through the ski industry during its decades of explosive change was so compelling that we didn’t even get to China Peak until we were nearly out of time. So all of my normal questions about chairlifts, trail networks, local markets, snowfall, fire danger, the Indy Pass, the Powder Alliance, and the wild world of Covid will just have to wait until next time – and you will want there to be a next time after you hear this.Why you should ski China PeakChina Peak is an interesting place. It’s more or less at the end of the road, on the way to nowhere, close to nothing at all. Mammoth, 30-ish miles away as the crow flies, is a five-hour drive. Because it’s not big enough to merit destination status in a state overloaded with alpha ski resorts, it’s mostly a day tripper’s hill for Fresno, an hour-and-a-half southwest. But there’s no rule that it has to be. An Indy Pass and Powder Alliance member, China Peak is a walk-up proposition for many skiers on their existing passes. The trail map looks fun, especially after a big snow, but the mountain’s new megahose snowmaking system ought to guarantee more stable conditions even when the snow fails to materialize. This would make a nice stop on any California ski tour.Additional reading/videosLift Blog’s China Peak lift inventoryHistoric China Peak/Sierra Summit trailmapsSome Slopefillers love for CoheeSAM($) profiles China Peak’s new snowmaking system Fires approaching China Peak last September:Cohee on video: Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

Ski Rex Media Podcast - S2E34 - R.I.P. Lodge Food, Long Live Tailgating

Ski Rex Media Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 14, 2021 30:37

Sometimes one has a topic all ready to go for their next podcast but then comes across something they feel might be better, which is what happened with this week's episode. Yes, I had something ready to go, but then I came across an article talking about ski areas actually doing well during the winter of COVID-19, though food & beverage sales may have taken a hit. So, that's what I'm talking about this week, ski mountain food & beverage. That was the department I worked in during my time at Mount Snow and I wanted to throw my two cents in on how I think the lodge food scene is going to stay changed as COVID-19 starts to fade into the background. I'm thinking it'll be a while before folks go back into the lodges. For a more specific take on that, please check out the full episode. Thank you for listening and I hope that you enjoyed it.--Ski Rex Media - News and Blog for and about the ski industry, ski bum lifestyle, winter sports, action sports, and mountain/outdoor sports and lifestyles. It doesn't matter if you're a ski bum, elitist skier, or a Jerry...we got you covered.--Visit skirexmedia.com for daily posts on the above subjects, and don't forget to subscribe while you are there.Ski Rex Media On Facebook: @SkiRexMediaSki Rex Media On Twitter: @SkiRexMediaSki Rex Media On Instagram: @skirexmediaSki Rex On YouTube: Ski Rex MediaSki Rex Media On Discord: Ski Rex Media ServerEmail Ski Rex Media: skirex4ever@gmail.com--Ski Rex Media Is Now On Patreon--If you would like to support Ski Rex Media, and believe me, it will be wicked appreciated, you can head to my Patreon Page: https://www.patreon.com/skirexmediaThe Ski Rex Media Podcast Is Also Available Through;BuzzsproutSpotifyiHeartRadioApple Podcasts or The Apple Podcasts AppStitcherAmazon MusicPandoraIntro/Outro Music:“Death Ensemble”Jacob Lizottehttps://www.darkcabin-studios.com/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/skirexmedia)

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Ski Rex Media Podcast - S2E30 - Ski Rage & Punk Kids At My 1st Home Mountain

Ski Rex Media Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 17, 2021 24:32

I'm doubling down with new episodes this week, this one being the second one posted today. It came to my attention that Mount Snow, my 1st home mountain, was in the snow sports news from the weekend. When I saw it was about ski rage I decided I had to do an episode on ski rage. This one also involves some punk kids. Am I condoning what the attacker did? Goodness, no. But, there are a few angles here and I use this episode to tell you all about them. Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoyed it.Link to ski rage video of Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/m57etu/carinthia_karen_assaults_13_year_old_boy_on_the/--Ski Rex Media - News and Blog for and about the ski industry, ski bum lifestyle, winter sports, action sports, and mountain/outdoor sports and lifestyles. It doesn't matter if you're a ski bum, elitist skier, or a Jerry...we got you covered.--Visit skirexmedia.com for daily posts on the above subjects, and don't forget to subscribe while you are there.Ski Rex Media On Facebook: @SkiRexMediaSki Rex Media On Twitter: @SkiRexMediaSki Rex Media On Instagram: @skirexmediaSki Rex On YouTube: Ski Rex MediaSki Rex Media On Discord: Ski Rex Media ServerEmail Ski Rex Media: skirex4ever@gmail.com--Ski Rex Media Is Now On Patreon--If you would like to support Ski Rex Media, and believe me, it will be wicked appreciated, you can head to my Patreon Page: https://www.patreon.com/skirexmediaThe Ski Rex Media Podcast Is Also Available Through;BuzzsproutSpotifyiHeartRadioApple Podcasts or The Apple Podcasts AppStitcherAmazon MusicPandoraIntro/Outro Music:“Death Ensemble”Jacob Lizottehttps://www.darkcabin-studios.com/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/skirexmedia)

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7. Chris DeJohn - 860 Media & Carinthia Park Crew

Two Planker Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 13, 2021 66:18

In this episode, we talk about Chris's experience with 860 Media and working at Mount Snow on the Carinthia Terrain Park Crew. Bunch of listener questions at the end which can be submitted on Instagram.

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Gravel Skills and Tips

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 25, 2021 65:09

Spring is around the corner and that means dried-out roads, sunshine, and GRAVEL. While gravel riding and racing is super hot right now in the cycling world, there are still a lot of cyclists who are intimidated or unfamiliar with how it all works. So, in this episode, Coach Frank breaks the gravel skills down and offers some of his tried and true tips for gravel riding and racing as a veteran of the gravel scene (he's been doing it since before it was “cool”). 61385Gravel Training Plan to help you practice what's described in this podcast! In this podcast, Coach Frank covers: pack riding skills maintaining a line of sight body position and english on the bike braking cornering descending roots and mud Thanks to everyone for tuning in, subscribing and reviewing on Apple Podcasts, and for engaging in our forum! Save 25% on your next training plan with code 25podcast Let me start with the 3 different types of gravel courses that different kinds of gravel skills apply to: the Boulder Gucci gravel What I jest about here is that the dirt roads around Boulder, CO are practically paved because out West Boulder County grades the dirt with giant tractors and treats the dirt by spraying the road with magnesium chloride (I think) to help bind the dirt and when the conditions are right – its smooth and hard pack just like a rough paved rough. Incidentally for those of you who live or have ridden in Costa Rica, you know many of the roads are dirt and they are treated with molasses to bind the dirt and keep the dust low. So riding in Costa Rica smells like pancakes. But I digress…. In either place not many gravel skills are necessary and I know that because I've ridden a road bike on these roads just as I would ride a road bike. In fact Boulder has historically held a road race called the Boulder-Roubaix on the Boulder gucci gravel and we all used our road bikes with maybe 25mm slick road tires. And nobody got hurt. The skills required are the same skills you need for road racing: To be able to ride in a pack, group, peloton Draft wheels Conserve energy from drafting and maneuvering in the pack to travel faster with less energy expenditure When I say draft I am speaking about the fact that aerodynamic drag is 30% less riding directly behind a rider in front of you than it is riding with no rider in front of you aka breaking the wind. Over 3-4-5-6 hours + that 30% adds up alot and you can travel farther and faster by riding in a group. Having a good group to ride with during a gravel race is kinda the holy grail to your performance especially in the final quarter of the race when you are really tired. You'll go faster and be more motivated than being stuck out there by yourself in no man's land questioning your life's decisions. How do you work on your pack riding gravel skills: why by George practice by riding in groups. This where a lot of roadies excel and why you see a lot of them coming over to gravel. That and they are aerobic endurance monsters. So to practice you need to seek out opportunities to work on you drafting and your pack riding skills. This is why we are such fans of the weekend group rides and the weeknight crits and group rides. I said crit – yes – crit racers are some of the best drafters in the sport of cycling (trackies too) but a good crit racer can draft like nobodies business and out sprint , out kick you on the last lap. Want to improve your pack riding, drafting gravel skills – do a crit. Or a road race – that counts too. In fact, the first 30-60 minutes of a gravel race is just like a fast paced road race. Therefore seek out road races to work on your gravel skills. Of course you can do gravel races to work on your gravel skills because by doing you are practicing. And with more practice you'll improve and become more comfortable riding at speed in close proximity to other riders. All the while it is dusty and bumpy. Familiarity plays a big factor. So practice practice practice. I'll give you an aside about pack riding skills to put it in perspective for gravel racing. When I worked for USA Cycling and Directed the US National Women's Team at all the world cups like Flanders, Drenthe Plouay, etc… pack riding skills was many time the rider's biggest challenge. The US National Team would take the best riders in the US used to slower speeds, bigger roads and a not as tight of a pack and put them on narrow unfamiliar roads, higher speeds , closer quarters and that was their biggest challenge. That's also why racing in Europe is important for athlete development – its a skill that comes from doing. There's no practice or drill or workout that is a substitute for riding in the European peloton. The point I want to make is to practice by doing when it comes to your gravel skills. The more gravel races you do the better you'll become at them, including our gravel pack riding skills. Okay – that covers the chaotic first 30 minutes of a gravel race but what about after that? After that you will be lucky to be in a smaller group of 6 – 12 riders. Same skills apply it is just not as scary. Your line of sight is much better! Let's talk about your line of sight because this is a big gravel skill. Your line of sight is drafting and looking ahead at the road/trail and seeing the smoother path. The path of least resistance AND making changes to your line to avoid that rock, or that hole in the dirt or the muddier line. Your line of sight is easier to see when you are out there all by yourself in the latter portion of the race but at the beginning of the race see the dirt is blocked by the pack and your attempt to draft better. Know why there are so many flats in the first two hours of the Dirty Kanza/Unbound? Because riders are desperate to find a better draft and don't see the sharp rock because they are literally glued to the wheel in front of them. What's the skill? Eyes up #1. Don't just look at the wheel just in front of you – looking ahead and around. Look Around # 2 – if possible – you'll be able to see better by riding an inch or two to the left or the right of the wheel in front of you – riding just to the side gives you a better line of sight. Sometimes that line of sight comes at the expense of the draft so its a balance. Do you trust the wheel, the rider in front of you and follow them verbatim or do you ride just a little off to the side? Its a balance – but don't use your brute strength in the first few hours of the race riding off to the side because that will come back to bite you in the last quarter of the race when you are dog tired. One final gravel skill or tactic is when riding in a group of 20 for example position yourself towards the front but not on the front for a better line of sight. You'll still have a good draft but less likely to be surprised by a rock, a rut, root, patch of mud etc… Kinda like the Paris-Roubaix entering the Ardennes Forest – be up front. But not on the front…. That covers the roadie esque portion of your gravel skills. You'll use those at nearly all your gravel races. Let's shift over to the gravel skills per the terrain – the gravel conditions getting away from the Boulder gucci gravel course and on to the medium and chunky sections – even sections that are like mountain biking. For these sections of a course line of sight is critical and the draft is not that important. In fact you will negotiate these sections better by not being around other riders. For example – you're riding in a pack, drafting well , traveling faster and life is good but you come to a singletrack section: The skill here is to enter that section first out of the group you are with or if not give the rider in front of you space ahead – like 3-5 bike lengths so you have a clear line of sight to handle the turns, the rocks, mud, slick section, roots, etc…. Often times these sections are only a small fraction of the whole race so my best piece of advice is to try to negotiate them safely and then you can put the hammer down when the technical aspect is over and the gravel road is in better conditions. In cyclocross we use the adage, “you know what's slower than riding a section carefully? Crashing.” Crashing is slower and often costly to you and your equipment. I know its cool and all to rail a section like Matthew van der Pool or Christoper Blevins but remember from our podcast with Amity Rockwell – the tortoise beats the hare every time. Your goal for these sections is to safely steadily negotiate your way thru. Gravel Skills include: Check your speed before entering a technical section Eyes up – look ahead Ride light – and by that we mean get up out of the saddle so if you do need to roll over a rock or a root your whole weight sitting on the bike does not compress the tire and potentially damage your rim, cause an flat etc… While you are out of the saddle use your knees and elbows like shock absorbers. Let the bike move up and down and around underneath you while your arms and legs are extending at your knees and elbows. I took a mountain bike lesson from 2000 World Downhill Mountain Bike Champion Myles Rockwell and he said – ‘dance with the trail' let the bike move underneath you while you are stable To practice: ride your Gravel Bike on trails! Yea, its fun and will help you train and practice for these portions of your gravel race. So for the Boulder gucci gravel riders – head over to Dowdy Draw where the xc mountain bikers go and practice riding your gravel bike on the singletrack. This reminds me of the announcer of the Crusher and the Tushar which is billed as ‘no matter what bike you choose, you'll be dead wrong at some point in the race' – and of course this was in the early days of gravel racing when some choose to ride a mountain bike and some choose to ride a cyclocross bike – the crusher had/has mountain bike sections and road bike sections. These days ride your gravel bike on mountain bike terrain as well as the road. Be diversified. The more you do it the better you'll become. Back to the more in the moment skills here are a few more tips to consider and implement when you are out there getting your groad on: Use your rear brake more than your front brake unless the traction is good and consistent. Like 70 % rear 30% front. This is especially important for descending and corners. Again criterium racers and cyclocrossers have the upper hand here and often times take their skills for granted. For cornering – my number 1 tip is to check your speed before you enter the corner. While you are coming up on the corner read the line and the terrain. Is it loose and dusty, muddy slick or buttery smooth? How tight is the corner what are the safe speeds? At the Crusher the corners come in the form of switchbacks on the descents and the speeds are really slow. At Steamboat Gravel the corners are more like bends in the road and the speeds are high and some don't even require braking at all. Just remembering the tortoise and the hare its better to go thru a corner safely than by crashing. No one ever finishes a gravel race wishing they'd of cornered faster. Descending! I'm gonna give you all my cyclocross skill tips here: Keep your weight back and feather your front break, use your rear brake more. To get your weight back even further stand up and get your hips behind your saddle over the back wheel. Keep your elbows loose to dance with the terrain and avoid having a death grip on the handlebars. Be loose and flowy so the bike can move underneath over rocks, roots, etc… Avoid the death grip. Hand position: hoods are ok but for better brake modulation be down in the drops – the curly bars as the enduro folk poke fun of us endurance types. To practice: descend! For the Bouder gucci gravelers – descending down the gravel section of Sunshine Canyon – it has similarities to Steamboat and the Crusher. The gravel road at the Crusher get chewed up big time and stutter bumps forms as well the corners get loose. So descend Sunshine when its like that : awful. You can let off the brakes more in the straight sections and check your speed as you enter the corners. Even in the drops keep your elbows and shoulder loose. If you can remember to laugh and flap your arms like a chicken you'll get bonus points. Steam crossings + Roots and Mud: Gravel skills for stream crossings mostly depends on how deep the water is, visibility and the conditions at the bottom. At the legendary Winter park Tipperary Creek MTB race way back when, Lance Armstrong was racing and came to the famous Tipperary Creek crossing in the lead of the race. In late summer the water was still running pretty high and there was no visibility to the rocks below. Rumor has it Big Tex did a full on superman endo with a full face plunge into the water. Local honch Jimi Killen who was about a minute or two behind dismounted and overtook Lance for the w. The point here is safe passage is faster than crashing. There's a lot of stream crossing at Unbound and a lot of flats after because the visibility is poor a riders slam a rock underneath. So run your big tire and don't be afraid to get off your bike if you can't see you line. Roots! There's dry roots and wet muddy slick roots. I still have PTSD from racing the NorBA Nationals at Mount Snow and in West Virginia. If at all possible square off and ride the roots perpendicular. Whatever you do try to avoid riding a root diagonally because the chances are much higher for the rubber tire to slip sideways on the smooth wet muddy root. That is nearly impossible at Mt Snow or West Virginia but thankfully I do not know of any gravel course that gnarly. Pick your way over these sections. Light out of the saddle eyes ahead, feather the front brake and this is where doing a course inspection will help a ton. Ie. riding the course and knowing about the sections coming up. Finally let's talk about mud! I think we've all seen the picture from the Mid-South last year – just soul crushing slow peanut butter heavy mud. The biggest mud riding skill is a light gear and to keep your momentum, moving forward. Once you stop or dab you are going to probably need to get off an run to a less muddy section or expend a lot of energy to get going again. Fortunately for most of the gravel races out west you'll be battling dust rather than mud. But races further east have the potential to be muddy and that means slower speeds and more patience is required. That is more tactics but skills are to simply keep your arms and shoulder loose – and honestly let the bike slide underneath you and keep your center of gravity overtop the bottom bracket. Avoid the death grip. Letting the bike slip around in the mud is for sure an acquired skill so how do you practice? That's right ride in the mud. 10,000 muddy miles for mastery. ha! Alright that's all the gravel skills I have for you in this podcast, if I missed some please let me know in the comments. My biggest take home point is that gravel skills is like riding a bike – the more you do it the better you'll become. So while you are out there FtFP'ing weave 10-20 minutes here and there to ride singletrack or mountain bikey terrain. Use your long gravel simulation rides not only for the physiological aspect of the training but for the skills practice too. Not only uphill but downhill as well! Copyright © 2021 FasCat Coaching – all rights reserved. Join our *FREE* Athlete Forum to nerd out with FasCat coaches and athletes about your FTP, race data, power based training, or anything related to going fast on the bike! To talk with a FasCat Coach about Over Under intervals for your training and racing, please fill out a New Athlete Questionnaire to set up a complimentary coaching consultation. The post Gravel Skills and Tips appeared first on FasCat.

Podcast #37: Sunday River General Manager Brian Heon

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2021 78:54

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored in part by:Mountain Gazette - Listen to the podcast for discount codes on subscriptions and merch.Helly Hansen - Listen to the podcast to learn how to get an 18.77 percent discount at the Boston and Burlington, Vermont stores.WhoBrian Heon, General Manager of Sunday River, MaineRecorded on February 2, 2021Why I interviewed him Because if you’re listening to this podcast, you can probably never get enough Sunday River. It’s big. It’s amazing. It’s important. And we all need it even if we never go there. For the Northeast to have a ski industry, it needs big, highly functional, ever-evolving ski areas that will forever stoke the aspirational let’s-go-bigger instincts of the beginners being tugged sideways up town ropetows. Sunday River is pretty much where things top out in New England. It has peers, but it really doesn’t have betters, even if there’s a little more howl and rip at Sugarloaf or Stowe or Sugarbush. It has scale and variety and lifts everywhere and if aliens landed on our planet and for some reason chose rural Maine as their disembarkation point they would probably conclude that the mountain was a giant factory for snow manufacturing. Which I suppose it is. And has to be. What it lacks in natural snowfall, it makes up for with cold cold temps, and Sunday River blasts out the artificial snow as well as anyplace on the planet. Running it is a titanic effort, and I wanted to get the perspective of the guy who had just taken on one of the biggest jobs in Northeast skiing.Photo courtesy of Sunday River Resort.What we talked aboutHow a career in skiing began in the melting flatscapes of Florida; working at The Canyons under the American Skiing Company and Mount Snow under Peak Resorts; running the legend that is Wildcat; when the original general manager of your ski area shows up with a shoebox full of old photos and stories of the sweaty pre-OSHA past:… when Vail buys your mountain; de-icing lifts after 13 years of swimming in Utah fluff; landing at Sunday River as Covid aftershocks were first reverberating across the landscape; life in Bethel; the scale and complexity of the resort’s operations as compared to Wildcat; how former GM and current President Dana Bullen’s role has evolved since Heon joined the mountain; Boyne Resorts’ company culture; an update on Sunday River 2030; RFID finally; Merrill Hill expansion plan and timeline; what’s next for lifts at Barker, Jordan, Aurora, North Peak, and South Ridge; potential new trails and glades on top of the existing footprint; snowmaking goals; some crowd-sourced snowmaking questions; why rusty pipes aren’t always bad pipes; what types of guns we may see at Sunday River in the future; ideas for improving the ski flow for the public around the race courses; a follow-up question about Boyne’s quest to eliminate boilerplate in New England; whale-mania; the fallout from the resort’s cyber-security hack earlier in the season and how they’re preparing for future incidents; preparing for Covid ops even as circumstances shifted constantly in the run-up to ski season; how that plan has evolved as ski season marched onward; whether the Sunday River-Killington first-to-open rivalry will return post-Covid; and Covid-era ops changes that may stick around indefinitely.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interview Because Sunday River has a new general manager for the first time since 2006. Brian Heon arrives from rowdy Wildcat, the New Hampshire legend now stacked into Vail’s Epic portfolio, with a couple decades of experience and an eagerness for a challenge. He found one, stepping into, well, 2020, arriving in May to try and puzzle together a Covid-era operating plan for a resort he’d never operated. It’s one of the most challenging situations imaginable at one of the most complex and scrutinized ski areas in New England. With eight months at the helm and several weeks of Covid-era operations behind him, I thought now was a good time to check in and see how Sunday River was adapting to our Very Weird Times and how Heon was sinking into his new home.Photo courtesy of Sunday River Resort.Why you should go there I don’t have a lot to add to what I said about Sunday River when I interviewed resort President and then-GM Dana Bullen last February. This is a spectacular mountain, and a must-ski for anyone who wants to truly experience and understand Northeast skiing.Additional resourcesThis is the latest of many Storm Skiing Podcasts with Boyne Resorts, parent company of Sunday River. Click through below to listen to the others:Boyne Resorts President and CEO Stephen KircherLoon Mountain President Jay ScambioSunday River President and General Manager Dana BullenBoyne Resorts President and CEO Stephen Kircher – Inside the Covid-19 ShutdownSugarloaf President and General Manager Karl Strand, Part 1 – Sugarloaf 2030Sugarloaf President and General Manager Karl Strand, Part 2 – After the ShutdownAlso:Lift Blog’s Sunday River lift databaseA history of Sunday River trailmaps – the resort’s development throughout the 80s is astonishingPhoto courtesy of Sunday River Resort.COVID-19 & Skiing Podcasts: Author and Industry Veteran Chris Diamond | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | NSAA CEO Kelly Pawlak| Berkshire East/Catamount Owner & Goggles for Docs founder Jon Schaefer | Shaggy’s Copper Country Skis Cofounder Jeff Thompson | Doppelmayr USA President Katharina Schmitz | Mt. Baldy GM Robby Ellingson| Alterra CEO Rusty Gregory | NSAA Director of Risk & Regulatory Affairs Dave Byrd | Schweitzer Mountain President and CEO Tom ChasseThe Storm Skiing Podcasts: Killington & Pico GM Mike Solimano | Plattekill owners Danielle and Laszlo Vajtay | New England Lost Ski Areas Project Founder Jeremy Davis | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | Lift Blog Founder Peter Landsman | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Burke Mountain GM Kevin Mack | Liftopia CEO Evan Reece | Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer| Vermont Ski + Ride and Vermont Sports Co-Publisher & Editor Lisa Lynn | Sugarbush President & COO Win Smith | Loon President & GM Jay Scambio | Sunday River President & GM Dana Bullen | Big Snow & Mountain Creek VP of Sales & Marketing Hugh Reynolds | Mad River Glen GM Matt Lillard| Indy Pass Founder Doug Fish | National Brotherhood of Skiers President Henri Rivers | Winter 4 Kids & National Winter Activity Center President & CEO Schone Malliet | Vail Veterans Program President & Founder Cheryl Jensen | Mountain Gazette Owner & Editor Mike Rogge | Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows President & CMO Ron Cohen | Aspiring Olympian Benjamin Alexander | Sugarloaf GM Karl Strand – Parts One & Two | Cannon GM John DeVivo | Fairbank Group Chairman Brian Fairbank | Jay Peak GM Steve Wright | Sugarbush President & GM John Hammond | Mount Snow GM Tracy Bartels | Saddleback CEO & GM Andy Shepard | Bousquet owners and management | Hermitage Club GM Bill Benneyan | Powder Magazine Editor-in-Chief Sierra Shafer | Gunstock GM Tom Day | Bolton Valley President Lindsay DesLauriers | Windham President Chip Seamans Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

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DANNY HAIRSTON WITH FEAR, FAIL, FLOW - THE NEW MANTRA

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2021 73:36

Founder of The Shred Foundation, champion corn husker, life changer, and all around the coolest guy in school.Danny talks:creating a urban and rural youth development programlearning to ride later in lifeAlmond Joys aka Ticks snowboard culturebuilding hits in the projectsTravis Rice Ice Coast Killsand the necessity of failing and falling.

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MERCEDES ORTEGA WITH MORE THAN ENOUGH PIE!

Play Episode Play 15 sec Highlight Listen Later Feb 7, 2021 47:14

CoDirector of Women's Park Camp, Park Affair and Area Manager for Burton East CoastRADARONI person of the yearMercedes talks:never not being in the industrythe NY hardcore scenefashion schoolopening a skate shop in Long Beach at 21running an all women's Park Camp with her bestie - Hailey Ronconibuilding a skate park in Panama Out ColdandMORE THAN ENOUGH PIECES OF THE PIE! Equality on and off the mountain. There is more than enough room for all slaydies in snow sports. Recorded 12.22.20

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Introducing WORKIN FOR THAT SNOW

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2021 34:23

Meet us

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182 Catskills NY

Vacation Mavens

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 2, 2021 49:59

This week we are "traveling" to upstate New York to the land of mountain resorts of yore in the Catskill Mountains in New York. Fadra Nally from All Things Fadra fills us in on what is different in this region from the times of Dirty Dancing and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and why it makes a great spot for an outdoor-focused girlfriend getaway with waterfalls, wine, and shopping or a family vacation destination with hiking, kayaking and more. About Fadra Nally Fadra is a blogger and podcaster focusing on the lighter side of cars, entertainment, and travel. Her favorite destinations are as close as West Virginia and as far away as Saudi Arabia. You can find her online at AllThingsFadra.com, or on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter. Tips for Visiting the Catskills The Catskills are located just about two hours north of New York City and cover 700,000 acres over four counties, with the Hudson River creating the eastern border. While the Catskills were popular in the 1950s, especially with families in NYC, many of those all-inclusive type of family resorts are no longer there. Dirty Dancing was based on a resort called Grossinger's, which is no longer operating, but it was actually filmed in Virginia and North Carolina. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel episodes in the Catskills were filmed at a family-run resort called Scott's Family Resort at Oquaga Lake. The Catskills are a good four-season destination, with skiing and winter sports in the winter, great hiking year-round, and beautiful fall foliage in October. However, some activities and attractions may only be open from May to October. There are a lot of breweries, wineries, and distilleries in the Catskill region. Kaaterskill Falls is one of the tallest in New York State at 260 feet, which is higher than Niagara Falls. It is approximately a one-mile hike, including a series of stairs, to reach the top and an overlook. Some trail heads may be closed so look online to find alternatives. There are many cute towns with great bookstores, restaurants, and boutiques for shopping. There are many cabin rentals that you can find on Airbnb that are perfect for a self-contained getaway where you can either cook or bring in take out. Mohonk Mountain House near New Paltz is a great hotel to stay at or even visit for brunch and then enjoy the hiking trails on the grounds. Catskill, Kingston,and Hudson are all great little towns to set up a home base. Fadra stayed in Cocksackie on the water, which has a smaller downtown that is undergoing a revitalization to make it a wedding destination. Cocksackie has a great bottle shop and Chez Figata is a good restaurant to try for dinner. If you go further west in the Catskills you will find more resorts and mountains. It is a great destination for a girlfriend getaway, romantic getaway, or a family vacation. The Kartrite Resort in the Catskills is great for families and has an indoor waterpark. Fadra stayed at an Airbnb called Heron's View. Be sure to plan in advance if you are going to rent a cabin or vacation home. [00:00:00.150] - Kim Where can you find Waterfalls, wine and shopping just a couple of hours from New York City? Stay tuned to find out. [00:00:18.730] - Announcer Welcome to Vacation Mavens, a family travel podcast with ideas for your next vacation and tips to get you out the door. Here are your hosts, Kim from Stuffed Suitcase and Tamara from We3Travel. [00:00:33.700] - Kim So, Tamara, we are in February. And, you know, things are starting to change a bit in the travel sector. I feel like we've been in a pretty standard operating procedure. But we recently had some big news come out for people that are planning to fly into the United States, and that is that they are going to require a negative covid test. [00:00:56.890] - Tamara Yeah, and I think that's a big deal. I'm thinking of people that have done some trips like to the Caribbean especially. I've been seeing a lot of that or Mexico. And now to think about how you are going to get that test on the way back, otherwise you're not going to be allowed home. Tt's something you have to really take into consideration. I think in the past, we've thought about testing to leave, but not testing to come back. So definitely a change. [00:01:23.920] - Kim Yeah, I think it makes sense. It seems good. I'll be honest where we're at with not traveling at all. It seems odd that people are traveling to the Caribbean and Mexico. [00:01:34.420] - Kim But I know that some people are choosing to do that and definitely still planning vacations and traveling and stuff. But I think this is definitely going to be an extra layer of logistics that they have to consider. I know you had mentioned some testing might be done at airports or such, but I know I've received a couple of press releases from major hotels such as the Palace Resorts, where we had stayed at one Moon Palace in Jamaica. [00:02:03.400] - Kim But they are offering free testing to their guests that will help them further. You know, American guests are flying back into the states so that that is one thing that you might consider is checking for hotels that are offering it. I think they know how much they rely on that tourism dollar. And so they're doing whatever they can to make sure that American tourists keep coming down and visiting. [00:02:27.030] - Tamara Yeah, especially because I imagine they could get pricey. I mean, if you think about some of the private testing that is available tends to be 100 dollars or more a person, so that can definitely add to the vacation cost. I was just talking to friends of ours and we were talking about their 25th anniversary in October, and they wanted to do like a four day getaway to the Caribbean. And I was like, here are some things to think about. [00:02:49.900] - Tamara And they're like, do you think that's still going to be in place? And I have no idea. And that's the thing is like we don't know how long. So, maybe people are thinking about a spring break trip, maybe they're thinking about summer. We just don't know how long these things are going to be in place. And it's definitely, for a four day trip, you think about the time it takes you away from your little vacation to have to deal with testing. [00:03:12.130] - Tamara And even before you go, like even though testing is more widespread, I know here a lot of the testing that I can get easily and that they encourage us to get regularly now is the rapid test and the rapid test is not going to qualify for what most countries will we will need. [00:03:27.640] - Tamara They'll need a PCR test for coming in, so if I try to get a PCR test, it doesn't have the same guaranteed turnaround time. And so then that could really mess up your trip. And so then you have to think about, OK, maybe I have to do private testing. Like when we talked to Amber about her trip to Hawaii, she used a company called Vault Health to do private testing before she left. [00:03:49.570] - Tamara And so now you might be paying for testing on both sides, plus taking time away from your vacation like I was just thinking about in Mexico when we went to Riviera Maya, it was about an hour from the Cancun airport. And transportation was pretty expensive because we weren't going to rent a car because we were planning on staying on the resort and then, getting back and forth to the airport. If that's where you have to do your testing, that that's going to be time consuming out of your trip. [00:04:17.830] - Kim So, yeah, a lot of considerations. [00:04:20.410] - Tamara And then I think also there's things to think about. Obviously, every country has their own rules. And I mean, pretty much most of them are still off limits. But even the ones that are accepting visitors from the U.S., which are a lot of the Caribbean islands and Mexico, Costa Rica. I know I was just following our friend Sarah that talked to us about kind of where the Caribbean was and they're reopening of the islands to go to. And we talked to her back in the summer. She does a lot of reporting from down there. [00:04:50.020] - Tamara So she's just in Anguilla and it looks like she had to have a PCR test before she left a PCR test when she arrived. And then you're quarantined in your hotel room until the results of that get back, which are supposed to be within 12 hours. [00:05:04.690] - Tamara But then even beyond that, there's a 14 day quarantine within certain resorts or properties or a restaurant. [00:05:11.850] - Tamara So basically they've created this little like traveler's bubble so that if you are a visitor and your negative, but you're still have a red wristband that you're in a 14 day quarantine and you can go to certain hotels, certain restaurants, but only on certain days. And then they're accessible to locals on other days to keep the locals and the visitors, I guess, a little separated. And I mean, it seems to be working. They've had no deaths and very few cases. [00:05:38.650] - Tamara But, wow, that's a huge I don't know I don't want to say restriction on your vacation because, you know, frankly, just being able to travel at all right now is a huge privilege and so but it's really it's not everyone's like, oh, I want to go on vacation. I wanted to be feel normal. Well, you know, maybe not. [00:05:57.250] - Kim Yeah, I think that's the thing is, it's I mean, we're still not looking at what normal is going to be for a while. And I think that's that's the big thing. I know. You know, we I do feel lucky that we have such great summers here in the Pacific Northwest and we could say, hey, we can, you know, go explore our own area again. But I think everybody is getting kind of sick of that. I know I'm you know, we love California and I'm typically down there a couple or few times a year. And we I just miss, you know, pool lounging and, you know, sunsets on the beach and all of that, you know, palm tree lifestyle. And so I don't know. And, you know, Disneyland is still not open. And I don't think it has any chance of opening for spring break, in my opinion. [00:06:44.260] - Kim So what that must be doing to that economy and all those workers, I mean, I can't even imagine. [00:06:49.030] - Kim So it's kind of a crazy, crazy world still. I mean, I can't believe we're coming on one full year of it. [00:06:55.630] - Tamara And yeah, I know it's it's beyond depressing, but I'm thinking mostly about summer and I just need a change of scenery, like, desperately. And so we're going to go somewhere. You know, our plan was to go to Greece, which we wanted to do last year, this year. And that may just never happen. So my strategy right now is I'm creating backup plans. [00:07:22.300] - Tamara So I'm just booking things that are cancelable and will go where we can go. I mean, I'm not going to book like airfare or whatever, but like I did for Greece, but it is changeable without a fee and it was a good deal. So I don't know I don't know what it will happen with that eventually. [00:07:40.870] - Tamara And the hard thing is, like everything is contingent on everything else. And that's what drives me crazy in my life because I am a planner and have a really, really hard time like not knowing what the future holds, not being able to plan for not having anything in my control. So even just talking to Hannah about like her summer plans, like last year, she was going to do this like counselor in training year at the camp that she's gone to and then do this Israel trip. [00:08:07.090] - Tamara And obviously that was canceled and all she did was stay home and take summer optional classes and face time with friends and go for runs with me. And then we did a couple little trips, but it was just not good. And so she was thinking that this year would be something entirely different. But then the camp said, well, we're just going to kind of push it out a year. [00:08:30.820] - Tamara So you have another chance. You know, she'd kind of like given up on that hope that she was going to do that. So now the camp is like, well, you know what, we're just like adding an extra year to camp. So now you can do it as a rising senior as well. And everything she's ever heard has been that that's like the best year of camp. And so she really wants to do it. [00:08:48.610] - Tamara But then we were kind of thinking this year she might focus on something a little bit more like a job or like an academic program or internship, something like that. And so it's like all these things like, is that camp, is it going to move forward? Because if it doesn't doesn't should you do this? And here are these other, like, astronomy related things that she wanted to do. But like one by one, those are getting canceled, too. [00:09:08.830] - Tamara So they're off the table. And then we are like, if you do that, then you'd be around here. But if you're not doing that, then you wouldn't be around here and maybe you want to do a family trip versus a you know, Glenn and I go on a trip. [00:09:20.680] - Tamara And then there's also like, well, coming back are there's still going to be quarantines and restrictions in place because like right now, especially with our school, there's very strong rules about, you know, what's allowed. [00:09:30.460] - Tamara And so it's like, well, if we did something when you came back from camp, but you need to have time to quarantine or whatever before you would have to start up soccer practice in like mid-August. And we're also trying to look at colleges like all over the country. [00:09:46.510] - Tamara And it's like, oh, gosh, it's just there's so many feel overwhelming. And it just feels overwhelming to get locked in, you know. Yeah. The one thing that I can then like, plan things around. [00:09:57.220] - Kim I get it. Yeah. [00:09:58.840] - Tamara And unfortunately it'll be like last year where it will literally be June, you know, like days before something where you finally know what the situation is. [00:10:07.780] - Kim Yeah. Who knows. We can hold out hope and just see what's going to happen the next couple of months. But I think it's important for us all to just try and like. You said earlier it's it's still a very privileged worry and a lot of ways with what's going on, so long as we keep that in mind that it is a privilege to travel and we all miss it and we will get to it when we can, and we just all support each other and do the best we can to follow rules. [00:10:33.250] - Kim I think the rules are there to keep everyone safe on both like visitors and locals. So I think just be following rules and make sure that you're educated about rules before you make plans. I think that's the thing to focus on right now, certainly. [00:10:46.450] - Tamara And I think also, if you are considering doing one of those like Caribbean, Mexico, whatever trips, it seems like Canada is on the verge of telling people like if you go out of the country, you may not be able to come back in. So it's like, who knows? That could happen here as well. [00:11:01.570] - Tamara Like right now there's bans on travel for people that are not U.S. citizens. But there's a lot of considerations to travel right now. [00:11:13.360] - Kim Well, I mean, the Tokyo Olympics have completely been scrapped, which is just so sad and hard on that country. And I'm sure. So it's it's affected so much of, you know, I mean, it's not like they can't delay it another year like they did. So it's very sad for all those situation. [00:11:33.010] - Tamara Yeah. [00:11:34.000] - Kim Well, we are going to try and not focus on the sad and we are going to talk about a New York state escape. So for many people, depending on, like you've said, travel restrictions and quarantine requirements, it is a possible escape because it sounds like it's a lot of small towns, kind of keep to yourself, go outdoors, hike destination. So we are going to be talking about the Catskills. [00:11:58.930] - Tamara Yes. Let's let's go to the Land of Dirty Dancing, right? [00:12:02.080] - Kim Yeah, exactly. [00:12:12.650] - Tamara Today, we're here with Fadra Nally. Fadra is a blogger and podcast author who focuses on the lighter side of cars, entertainment and travel, her favorite destinations are as close as West Virginia and as far away as Saudi Arabia. So welcome, Fadra. [00:12:26.660] - Fadra Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you today about a location that's pretty close to where I am, but I've actually only been a few times. [00:12:35.450] - Tamara We're going to talk about the Catskill Mountains, but some of our listeners may have only heard of the Catskills for movies like Dirty Dancing or I think The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, they spend some time in the Catskills. But can you explain to our listeners, like, where are the Catskill Mountains and what are some of the towns in their area if you're going to look it up on a map? [00:12:53.000] - Fadra Well, I'll tell you, before I went last time, last November, for the first time, I only knew that I knew it from Dirty Dancing. And that was pretty much it. And, you know, it's it was kind of well known back in the 50s. It was a big sort of like a summer location for wealthy, usually Jewish families from New York City. They would head out to the Catskills and it's it's considered upstate New York. [00:13:16.520] - Fadra It is west of the Hudson River. And it actually encompasses it's about 700,000 acres and takes up four different counties. So it's a pretty large region. It's kind of in southeast New York state. So it's a very big area. It's a mountainous area. It's actually part of the Appalachian Mountains. So there's there's a lot to see and do there. And it's kind of funny that you mentioned the entertainment aspect, because I do cover entertainment as well as travel. [00:13:45.680] - Fadra And so it was kind of fun just to read a little bit more about it. And just a quick side note on Dirty Dancing. So the resort in that film is called Kellerman's, and it was inspired by a resort called Grossinger's, which is it's now gone. It's long gone, actually. So they actually shot that movie in Virginia and North Carolina. [00:14:07.850] - Fadra So they didn't even shoot it in the Catskills. But Mrs. Maisel, they did actually shoot there. There's a place called Scott's Family Resort at Oquaga Lake, and it's a family run hotel. I haven't been to the one in the Catskills. I've been to similar type hotels where it's sort of like an all inclusive, rustic, family friendly family activity type place. And that one, they actually chose to film it there because that's remained largely unchanged since the 50s. [00:14:35.060] - Tamara Yeah, it was funny. You talk about the 50s because I think my husband would get upset because growing up he always went to the Catskills and it was not in the 50s. [00:14:43.280] - Tamara But I always call him old, so. Yeah, but but he was definitely one of the New York Jewish families that always went to the Catskills. They went to the Concord, was like the big resort then. And he tells me about like some of the comedians that came in. And so, like the whole Mrs. Maisel thing, like definitely ties into that. But it's really funny because one of the first times we went skiing together, his only experience skiing was at the Concord, which I guess is like just a small little hill that you would take like a tow rope up. [00:15:10.310] - Tamara And so when we were going up the lift, I think it was in Mount Snow in Vermont, he was like, how high are we going? Like, how long is this lift? And I was like, I don't know. I'll take about like 10, 15 minutes. He's like, What? And then I was like, well, how long is it going to take to get down? I'm like, I don't know, like half an hour or so. [00:15:27.590] - Tamara And he was just like so shocked because it was, you know, his experience was, you know, very much going to the Concord in the winter and skiing there. But skiing was more like, you know, that most five minutes down the hill. [00:15:39.390] - Fadra So his idea of skiing sounds more like my idea of. So that's good to know. If I want to go skiing, I'm going to go to the Catskills. [00:15:47.160] - Tamara Yeah, I think there are some some tougher hills or mountains, I should say now. But anyway, it's funny because he definitely always talked about his experience in the Catskills. [00:15:57.530] - Kim That's funny. So speaking of winter and seasons, you had mentioned that you went in November, which would have been the fall. So it's it seems like maybe it's a seasonal destination. Do you know anything about some of the things that you can do around the different seasons and maybe the best time you think for people to visit? [00:16:14.480] - Fadra Well, you know, the great thing about the Catskills are that it's really a four season area. So I think it just depends on what you like to do. [00:16:23.150] - Fadra So I am not a skier, as you might have inferred from like those small little hills. I actually grew up doing some ski trips to Pennsylvania, which are also, you know, nice little hills, and I can handle that. So I'm not a big winter sports fan. They do have skiing there. So if that's something that you like to do, that is something that you can do in the Catskills. But the other three seasons are where you're really going to be able to take advantage of a lot of the outdoor activities. [00:16:49.370] - Fadra So, for example, I love to kayak and we actually stayed at a place right on the Hudson River. So you do have access to the river and you do have access to the mountains. So depending on what you like to do, we stayed right by the river, which would be great for warmer weather activities. And then, of course, all the mountain activities are, you know, just a short drive away. [00:17:09.590] - Fadra But I found November was just a bit too chilly for any activities on the river, and when you get into fall in an area like New York and in the mountains, you know, it's kind of hit or miss. You're going to have some warmer days and then you're going to have some really cold days. So I was actually content to just sit on the shore of the river. And for people that don't know, the Hudson River is a major waterway for cargo ships. [00:17:32.850] - Fadra And so, it's kind of fun just sitting out there. In fact, our first night there, I looked out the window. [00:17:38.610] - Fadra I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And my friends were like, what's wrong? What's wrong? I said, there's a giant ship on the river. [00:17:47.730] - Fadra So it was totally unexpected to see them go up and down. So that was kind of fun. But, you know, fall and spring are great for hiking, as is summer. [00:17:55.270] - Fadra I mean, you could do anything in the summer, but fall, fall or spring. It was perfect for us to do some brisk hiking. And then, like I said, if if you don't mind snow and you like skiing, there are opportunities in the winter as well. So, you know, it really just depends on what you like to do. But I would definitely consider it a four season area. [00:18:13.560] - Kim Is it really like tree heavy snow would fall be have a lot of fall colors like you hear so much about in the Northeast, or is it a little too far north for that? [00:18:22.680] - Fadra No, I think it depends. Again, it depends on where you go. Keep in mind that the Catskill region is huge and it goes all the way from the Hudson River, pretty far west. So if you start driving up, I think you're talking about maybe elevation wise, it is it you don't get a lot of trees. No, it was actually most of the leaves were gone by the time we went. We went mid to late November. [00:18:44.220] - Fadra So, you know, of course, the further north you go, the earlier the foliage season is. But no, the area is definitely popular for fall foliage and they definitely encourage that. In fact, it's still a big area for New York City people, even though it's a couple hours away, you'll get a lot of the leaf peepers in the fall. So, yeah, it's a beautiful area for that. [00:19:05.050] - Tamara Yeah, I was thinking I was in the Finger Lakes in September, like late September of this year. And so they are not too different in terms of how high up they are. So feel like October would probably be prime leaf season. [00:19:24.690] - Tamara And I definitely think that the Catskills have a lot of agritourism because when I was there for a family reunion, this was, oh, gosh, maybe 15 years ago almost. We went in the summer and there were like a lot of farms to visit. So I imagine in the fall that could be really, you know, an excellent time to like do all the pumpkin patches and stuff like that. [00:19:49.200] - Kim I'm betting if it's near the it has a lot of trees and it's near the river, it's probably really good for birdwatching. Not that I'm into that, but I'm thinking spring time would probably be really popular. [00:19:58.230] - Fadra I actually love bird watching, but I can't say it was something that occurred to me because along the river. So if you're going to stay along the river, you're probably going to stay in a town which is going to be a little bit more developed. [00:20:10.740] - Kim OK, but it's more I'm picturing like Pacific Northwest Rivers, but that's more like when I lived in Kansas. It's like the Missouri River, like transport river type. [00:20:19.020] - Fadra Exactly. Exactly. [00:20:20.680] - Tamara Okay. Yeah. When you were talking about kayaking, I'm like, wow, the Hudson, that's that's huge. And I'm not quite sure I'd want to kayak on that. [00:20:27.900] - Fadra You know, it's kind of funny because my husband grew up a little further south, but right along the Hudson River and he used to tell me stories of how they would jet ski all the time on the Hudson River. And you just you don't really grasp it until you're there. And you see, OK, it's a pretty big it's a pretty wide river. And then you see these massive ships going up. And I came home and I said, you were jet skiing on that river with these giant cargo ships. [00:20:52.260] - Fadra And he said, yeah, we used to you know, they would go behind the ships and catch the wake of the ships and jump them. And, you know, I was like, we are different people. He also did black diamond skiing trails. So, you know, he's more of a thrill seeker. [00:21:06.540] - Fadra I'm more of a I'm going to sit over here with my glass of wine and just, you know, take a look at the the world going by. [00:21:12.090] - Fadra But, yeah, I would I would definitely do some kayaking. I'd probably be more inclined to keep it, you know, close to the shore. And there are rules on the river. So, you know, they do have buoys, so you don't go out past a certain place and there are shipping lanes. So it's not like you can just cut straight across. [00:21:28.890] - Kim So, yeah, funny when you said that, it reminds me, I don't know if either of you are. Well I know not on TikTok, but I'm, I like TikTok sometimes and there's a thing and it's like, the best relationships always have one really boring person and one really crazy person because the it works. It's the only it's the only way that matches up. [00:21:49.110] - Fadra Did you just call me boring? [00:21:50.670] - Fadra Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. Compared to my look compared to my husband. I like different types. You know, I might try and exotic fish. [00:22:01.530] - Fadra You know, you live you live large. He's done everything jump out of airplanes. Motorcycles that I'm like, let's stay in a nice luxury hotel. [00:22:17.900] - Tamara I'm just thinking, I think that we're both the boring ones, which leaves Hannah to be the wild one. [00:22:23.900] - Tamara But, yeah, so we talked about kayaking and, you know, maybe some hiking, things like that. Are there any other, like activities? Are there attractions that you should see in the Catskills? [00:22:33.890] - Fadra So, you know, keep in mind that I went in November and we are, you know, in the midst of this thing called a pandemic. So, you know, I didn't get to explore everything that I wanted to see because, you know, there are reduced hours and reduced availability. And also there are some things that are open seasonally. So I would say, you know, the biggest activities are probably open from May to October. So keep that in mind. [00:22:58.790] - Fadra I was there in November. But with that said, I think the biggest things that I would recommend are waterfalls and wineries. And even if you're not into wineries, they have a lot of distilleries that are pretty well known. They have a lot of breweries. And so we didn't actually get a chance to hit any of those. But there are some you know, there are a couple really well-known distilleries that we were looking to get to. But waterfalls, of course, are, you know, available. [00:23:24.830] - Fadra That's that's a four season thing as well. I don't know that I would go in the winter, but it was a nice brisk hike to do the waterfalls. And, of course, you know, you have the mountains, you have the water. So you're going to get a lot of waterfalls. One of the places that we went that I absolutely loved, it's called Catskill Falls. And keep in mind that this area was founded by the Dutch. [00:23:45.380] - Fadra So you'll get that skill like Fishkill and Peekskill and which I think I think that I think Kill actually refers to River. I think that's what I think that's what it means. So it's a Dutch word. But Catskill Falls is a it's one of the largest the highest waterfalls in New York State. It's 260 feet tall. [00:24:05.000] - Fadra So it's actually higher than Niagara Falls. It's the tallest cascading waterfall in New York State. And it's really popular. And we went and it was it's about a one mile hike to get to the base of the waterfalls. And then you can actually go up a series of stairs to take you to the top of the waterfall. And it's a it's a beautiful overlook. It's a nice hike. And, you know, the only thing to keep in mind, again, during the pandemic, if you look online, it'll say the falls are closed. [00:24:38.180] - Fadra And what that means is some of the trailheads are closed. So you have to be a little bit more strategic about, you know, where you park and how you access it. But Catskill Falls was really amazing. And if you're not a super outdoorsy person, if you just wanted like a nice relaxing getaway, there are all kinds of cute little towns with shopping and eating. [00:24:59.300] - Fadra And again, you know, availability during this time is really going to vary by towns. But we found great bookstores and cute little coffee shops and restaurants and just like boutique shops, unique artsy shops. And one of the things that that I like to do when I travel is I like to stimulate the local economy and I like to try and find things that I couldn't find other, you know, in other places. So I do a lot of boutique shopping. [00:25:26.150] - Fadra And so, yeah, they had some really unique stuff there. So I definitely recommend the shopping as well. It's great. [00:25:32.310] - Kim It sounds like a kind of the type of place that you'd pick a nice hotel and maybe get a spa treatment and enjoy a lazy breakfast and then stroll around and maybe do a hike or two. And that's the kind of vacation I'm dreaming of right now as a kind of nice for a girlfriend getaway. [00:25:47.630] - Tamara Yeah, exactly. A romantic getaway. I think you definitely sold both of us on the waterfalls and wine. [00:25:52.100] - Kim Yeah, exactly. Tamara and I, those are it's like we're sold. We're in. [00:25:56.330] - Fadra And actually that's why I went in November. So last year was a big birthday for me. And I had decided going into the year that this is going to be my year to travel. And as you know, the world had other plans. And so two of my friends actually said, let's do just a local getaway. You know, it's drivable for all of us. And so we it was three girlfriends and we stayed in a little Airbnb, beautiful Airbnb on the water with three bedrooms. [00:26:26.870] - Fadra And it was just, you know, it was a perfect getaway for us. And, you know, the thing is right now that you can go out, but you can also, you know, get some takeout and have a girls night in and just be away from home. [00:26:39.020] - Tamara And it was really, really nice. Yeah, well, I share that big birthday with you, and I was also planning a year of travel, so I'm going to make up for it. We are definitely eventually I kept saying we're going to do in twenty, twenty one. I'm like, uh, maybe the latter half of 2021. [00:26:55.970] - Fadra So yeah. Still holding out hope. [00:26:58.550] - Kim So is there any, special area, you know you've, you've just been the one time. But I know with your research and probably what you plan, what about any favorite areas to stay because you said it's a huge region, so. What would you like, what towns or areas do you think are the the winning winning spots? So, you know, I've actually been up that way, you know, quite a few times because my I have family that lives up in Fishkill, New York, which is a little further south of the Catskills, and it's on the east side of the Hudson River. [00:27:29.620] - Fadra So my husband and I go up there almost every year and we do a lot of day trips. And so I've done things like hiking and biking and brunching at Mohonk Mountain House. I don't know if you're familiar with. [00:27:41.260] - Tamara Oh, yeah, I've wanted to stay there. [00:27:42.850] - Fadra Yeah, it's beautiful in New Paltz, New York. [00:27:45.160] - Fadra So that's a place where normally you can only go there if you are a guest. But, you know, fun little secret. If you make a brunch reservation, then you could spend the whole day there. You know, they'll let you in as long as you have brunch reservations or something. And so they have some great trails that go all the way around the lake. So I've done that. [00:28:04.960] - Fadra But this time I stayed further north in a town called. If you were to read it, it looks like it's Cock Sakey, which is a horrible name, but they pronounce it Cook Soki. . [00:28:19.270] - Fadra I thought it was really just the perfect location. It's not too far from Albany. It's a really easy drive. I live, you know, close to Baltimore and drove up there and it was actually a really, really easy drive. I thought it was a good location and it was kind of a good place where we could go to the east side of the river if we wanted to visit. Some towns over there like Hudson is a really cute town there. [00:28:45.370] - Fadra If we wanted to go as far south to a town called Kingston, we went there or if we wanted to stay closer, you know, there there is actually a town called Catskill. And then, of course, the town we stayed in Cocksackie and just in the little downtown area, there's not there's not a ton there. [00:29:03.040] - Fadra They're actually doing a lot of revitalization there. They have some investors coming in. And, you know, I think they're going to kind of try and make it a wedding destination. But there were some great restaurants we ate at this place called Chez Figata, and they were open for business. There was a great bottle shop, which we call them wine stores. But I guess up there it's a bottle shop and really great wines and just some small little little shops that we were able to walk to from where we were staying. [00:29:31.540] - Fadra So I actually really love staying there and I wouldn't mind staying there again, but I would love to explore the areas further west. So the Catskills go much further west, a little bit deeper into the mountains, and that's where you're going to find the resorts and the ski areas and so on. [00:29:49.450] - Tamara And what about Woodstock, Woodstock's part of the Catskills, isn't it? Or is that further South? [00:29:53.350] - Fadra It is. Well, it's further south, but it's very close to New Paltz. So, you know, Woodstock, as in the Woodstock is right up there, which was actually just a big, you know, farming area, big farm where they had it. [00:30:06.400] - Fadra So you'll find that there's pretty, how shall I say, crunchy towns up that way. [00:30:13.270] - Tamara Yeah, those are fun. Like you said, though, bookstore's like unique boutiques like I love that kind of things. [00:30:20.710] - Tamara I again I keep going back to like maybe more girlfriend getaway a romantic getaway. But at the same time like I know that we've done family things there and there are definitely I feel like there's like amusement park. [00:30:32.410] - Tamara I'm trying to think of like all the things my nieces and nephews did when we were on that family reunion quite a few years ago. [00:30:39.760] - Fadra Well, let me just say that right now, especially to the moms out there, we're pretty much home with everybody almost all the time. And it's OK to take a little time for yourself and do do a girlfriend getaway. I know it's easy to think like, well, if we're spending the time or the money, we should do a family trip. But it's really worthwhile to just kind of refresh and recharge and take that back home to your family. [00:31:09.310] - Tamara Yeah, I think especially this should be a year where there should be less guilt about that because we're like, oh, I never see them. We're so busy. I'm like, no, you've seen them. [00:31:18.910] - Fadra So we need to spend more time as a family. No, we don't. [00:31:24.880] - Kim I have to say, I was, you know, really thankful that we never, you know, embrace the RV or tiny home lifestyle, you know? But then I was thinking of our friend Brianna, who runs Crazy family adventure, and they've been living in their RV with her, you know, kids for six years now or something. And I'm like, I guess this pandemic's really not that different for them. [00:31:48.280] - Fadra So my friend Andrea Updyke, I don't know if you know Andrea, they recently bought an RV. By the way, RVs are hard to come by right now because because because of the pandemic, everyone's like, let's get on the road. So they bought an RV and they actually just did a trip out to the Grand Canyon from North Carolina. And it was a three week trip and I said, how was it, and she said, actually, you know, it's great, we had a wonderful trip, we all got along really well. [00:32:15.450] - Fadra But it's funny because when she's home and I think when you're away with your family, it's a little bit different. So she says when we're home, a lot of times they'll plug the RV in on their driveway. And she uses that as her little like oasis away from her family. [00:32:30.630] - Kim It's like her, she shed. I think it's funny. [00:32:37.050] - Tamara So, you know, we were talking about that its kind of good for the girlfriend getaway, a romantic getaway. I remember when Glenn and I were dating, when we lived in New York and we went up to the Catskills, we stayed to someplace I wish I could remember. [00:32:48.570] - Tamara It was like a B&B, but we stayed in like a loft in the barn and it was on a pond that was supposed to be like, I don't know where they filmed on Golden Pond or something like that. And I remember like rowing in a rowboat was so romantic. [00:33:03.150] - Tamara But there are you know, there are still some family resorts up there. Do you have any that, you know, kind of heard of or know about? I think the one that I've that comes to mind for me is Kartrite, which has like the water park inside, kind of like a great wolf kind of thing. [00:33:19.170] - Tamara But are there some more of those kind of the traditional like what used to be Catskill family resorts? [00:33:24.870] - Fadra There are there are about 25 different mountain resort. [00:33:29.760] - Fadra So if you're looking for a mountain resort in particular, they all have a little bit of a different focus. So some are that family oriented, all inclusive, where it's, you know, three meals a day or whatever it is. And they have all the family activities and everything is right there. Others are casino resorts and some are ski resorts. So I think it really just depends on what you're looking for. [00:33:53.620] - Kim It's good to know that there's probably a lot of options out there. [00:33:56.230] - Kim I seem to recall I recently wrote a post and I was referencing like some All-Inclusive in the United States, and I seem to recall one that's there. And I can't think of which one now, but I know it was in that upstate New York area and it's probably in that region, I'm guessing. And it's one of the all inclusive that kind of attracts families. [00:34:13.360] - Fadra Yeah. And when you when you mention all inclusive, I mean, here's the thing. Depending on the resort, I've stayed at a couple in the U.S., not up in the Catskills. And, you know, the one thing I want people to keep in mind is you're probably not going to get the all all inclusive experience at, say, like in the Caribbean. So it's it's a little bit different. Some that are more old fashioned and more family oriented. [00:34:37.200] - Fadra To me, they feel more like summer camp for families. Right. And then others, I've been to some I've been to some in the Poconos, and that's more like a cruise ship on land. So it's still not quite that Caribbean feel. But I think it's important to kind of reset your expectations for what an all inclusive is if you're doing something within the U.S.. [00:34:58.290] - Tamara That's true. Very true. It's definitely not a yeah. Not the same. You know, bring me my drink by the poolside. [00:35:04.820] - Fadra Exactly, exactly. [00:35:06.870] - Kim It's more of just like a meal package included. Yes, exactly. [00:35:10.380] - Fadra So it's also a good area for camping. And by camping, I mean tent camping. We talked about RV camping. I got to be honest, for years I wanted that to be my thing. It's not my thing. In fact, I mentioned my friend when she got an RV and it was just very exciting. And I mentioned it to my husband. I said, what would you think about this? And he looks at me and he goes, No. [00:35:32.850] - Fadra And I said, Really? He's like, Do you really think that's us? We're more like luxury hotel kind of people, which makes me sound sort of snobby. It doesn't have to be a luxury hotel, but I like places like you said, like something that's a little bit unique, like staying in a loft in a barn or something that's just that feels really clean and modern and comfortable. So we actually rented the first time ever that I stayed in an Airbnb and I absolutely loved it. [00:36:00.570] - Fadra And I'm really worried now because I don't know if all experiences are that good. So we stayed at a place called Heron's View, which is right on the Hudson River in Cocksackie. And like I said, it was an older home. They completely renovated it. So it still had character, but it was modern and clean and I just loved it. So I definitely recommend that. [00:36:23.610] - Fadra But again, I hate to keep referring to the P word, but in the time of the pandemic, these kind of things actually book up because a lot of people who maybe would have, you know, done their European vacation or gone on a cruise, they're not they're looking for these smaller, family oriented, more accessible type vacations. So these things actually fill up fairly quickly. In fact, the place where we stayed, Heron's view, I think for the entire month of August, it was rented by three working women out of New York City that just wanted to get out of the city. [00:36:59.460] - Fadra And so it wasn't really a vacation. It was just a place for them to stay while they were working. So you'll find a lot more of those kinds of things. So I definitely recommend planning in advance for whatever it is. That you want to do? [00:37:10.920] - Tamara Yeah, and we had that when we went to the Adirondacks over the summer and I definitely think it's going to continue. I think people are already looking at some of that this year, even if it's their backup plan. [00:37:22.580] - Tamara You know, like if other things can't happen, at least they have something. So the better properties, like you said, like the ones that have those unique characteristics or the views or the you know, they're lakeside like that type of thing, if you're looking for that. I agree. They definitely book it up early. Those I think it's going to continue to be a very popular way to travel throughout 2021. [00:37:44.600] - Fadra I think so, too. And, you know, I want to mention that because a lot of people feel like they can't travel. [00:37:51.470] - Fadra And, you know, of course you have to pay attention to state requirements and state restrictions and your personal level of comfort as well. But, you know, because we all work in the travel industry, you know, I want to make sure that people know that you can travel, you can travel safely. You know, it just depends on where you're going and how you're choosing to travel. I think we went out to eat maybe once, maybe twice. [00:38:15.440] - Fadra But we we did takeout and we brought it back. You know, we all made sure that we were safe before we traveled together. We brought takeout back. We brought board games with us. You know, we went to the bottle shop and got bottles of wine. And it was really about spending time with each other in a different destination. So you can do it. I don't think that you have to put off travel. You just have to figure out more creative ways to do it. [00:38:39.530] - Kim Yeah, that's what we're starting to see. I mean, these these towns and tourist districts, I mean, as travel writers, we're seeing what they how they've been impacted. And I don't know if many of them can go through another summer or even spring into summer facing this. [00:38:56.030] - Kim So I think it is smart for us to figure out where our level is and make sure, of course, that you're following any rules and restrictions, but then do what works best for your family and help try and support the local economy. I love that you talk about buying from the local shops. And, you know, we've been trying to do that locally, just eating at our local restaurants and getting order out instead of, you know, visiting as many chains and little things like that. [00:39:21.290] - Kim So I think there are ways that if you're comfortable and you're following the rules and restrictions Tamara do you know, does New York State have any current travel restrictions? [00:39:31.400] - Tamara They do. They have had for quite a while. So definitely check their website. They had some quarantine restrictions. There's a form that you need to fill out. Yeah. So definitely before you go, make sure you understand what the restrictions are. The good side is that I don't know what your experience was, Fadra, but I know when we were in the Adirondacks, it's like because New York has taken things very seriously, we saw a lot of compliance, you know, like we didn't have many issues. [00:39:59.420] - Tamara It was it felt like a pretty safe place to go, you know, so that I really appreciate it. [00:40:06.610] - Fadra I mean, I felt comfortable. But it's one of those things where if you're walking around town, you're having a mask on. Whether you're inside or outside, you just you wear the mask. And when even when we went hiking, there were people that wore masks. We chose not to wear them outside. But you make sure if if that's how someone feels comfortable, you give them a wide berth when you pass them on the trail, right? [00:40:29.090] Yeah, definitely. We we would usually have something that we would like pull up if you're passing someone. But I definitely appreciated the people that didn't have it and they made sure they stepped far off the trail and that was good. [00:40:43.670] - Kim So do you have any final tips that you'd like to share for, you know, if someone's thinking of planning a trip to the Catskills? [00:40:50.840] - Fadra Well, just to kind of recap some of the things we talked about, I'd say planning it in advance, you know, make sure there's availability for where you might want to stay, especially right now. Make sure you know what's open, whether it's something that's closed for seasonal reasons or it's closed because of, you know, pandemic reasons, because you don't want to get your heart set on something. You'd be like, oh, well, we can't do that now and then. [00:41:13.610] - Fadra You know, you don't know. You don't know what to do. I also want to mention that just because it's outside doesn't mean it's easily accessible. This is true, honestly, throughout the country, there are some trailheads that are closed primarily to reduce the number of people, you know, a lot of the national parks, which drives me a little crazy that, you know, some of the parking lots are closed and the shops are closed and some of the attractions are closed. [00:41:39.230] - Fadra But more importantly, the bathrooms are closed. That's the only thing that bothers me. [00:41:44.690] - Fadra But they do that because they want to kind of discourage, you know, large crowds of people gathering together. The other thing, and I sort of hinted at this is be prepared for any kind of weather. Even in the summer, it can get very chilly in the mountains. So we were staying right on the water and it it was actually nice during the day and then it would drop down at night. But, you know, a lot of places are used to having you know, we had a fire pit, we had an outdoor heater. [00:42:10.760] - Fadra So but we definitely brought layers as well. [00:42:14.340] - Tamara Yeah, very good point. I mean, even in the summer when you're in the mountains, it gets colder. Well, speaking of layers of question that we ask, all of our guest is, what do you wear when you travel? Do you have any favorite brands or gear? [00:42:29.400] - Fadra Well, for me, it changes by season. So, for example, in the summer, I love fit flops and I wear them pretty much everywhere I go. [00:42:39.000] - Fadra If I'm hiking, I'm more of a I wear new balance hiking shoes. If if I'm hiking, I don't do hiking boots, I do hiking shoes. But in the summer I do flip flops. This winter I've been wearing a lot of toms and I don't mean the little canvas toms. Toms makes some nice, they're kind of like sneaker ankle boots and I love them and I also have some wool clogs from earthier. Can you tell that footwear is important to me. [00:43:05.400] - Fadra I like to be comfortable. And I also did a little shopping in Kingston, New York, which is a little bit south of Catskill, and I bought a shirt from a boutique. Between us, it's the most expensive shirt I've ever bought, but I love it. It's from a brand called Faherty. It's hard to say f h e r t y. And I've heard that it's my new favorite shirt. It's just like it looks like it's a gray wool shirt, but it's just a button up shirt with just the right fit, the right stretch. [00:43:34.110] - Fadra And so like that's my go to shirt. [00:43:36.150] - Tamara Now that's what I love about boutique shopping, though. It's I mean, I rarely do it here because I can't afford it on a regular basis. But it's just so nice to have something that's unique and like you said, that has like that special fit. [00:43:50.130] - Tamara And you're going to remember going to remember where you got it. Going to remember the time that you had it with your girlfriends and all of that. [00:43:54.870] - Fadra So every time I put it on, I text my friends and say I'm wearing my special shirt today and I know exactly what I'm talking about. That's awesome. [00:44:02.820] - Kim Well, thank you so much for all these awesome tips. And why don't you let our listeners know where they can find you online? Sure. [00:44:09.390] - Fadra Well, I have a blog called All Things Fadra, and you can find it at all things Phaedra dot com. It's spelled FADRA and I also produce a lot of videos. So I do have I do have quite a few travel videos on my YouTube channel and that's YouTube.com/allthingsfadra and I'm a sometime podcast store where I talk about TV in movies and you can find all the info on that at StingerUniverse.com. [00:44:36.510] - Tamara And I've gotten a lot of tips from you guys on things to watch, so I enjoy listening. [00:44:42.480] - Fadra Pandemic is a perfect time to really dig into entertainment. [00:44:46.200] - Kim Can you believe how long ago Tiger King was like four years ago? That was still. That was it. [00:45:12.690] - Kim Yes, but Fadra, you have to make time for Bridgton, OK? [00:45:16.500] - Fadra Not with my son around though. [00:45:18.180] - Kim No, definitely not. Well, you know, if you're into entertainment, you can't pass that by. [00:45:26.790] - Tamara I kind of thought I was a teen drama kind of thing. And then I started watching. I'm like, oh, OK. [00:45:33.150] - Fadra Isn't it sort of like a period teen drama, though? [00:45:35.580] - Tamara Well, yeah, yeah it's yeah. It's like what the eighteen hundreds supposed to be. [00:45:40.350] - Kim Well I mean it's just back to like when I mean I think the problem is the fact that girls used to be married off when they turned 17 and 18 like you come into your first season and you better get married then are you going to be on the shelf, you know, type mentality, then you'll be an old old maid or. [00:45:56.100] - Fadra Yeah, well, we just got a new elliptical so I need something to motivate me and get my heart rate up so that if I don't work nights. [00:46:06.360] - Tamara So have you ever watched Reign? [00:46:09.540] - Kim No, I haven't is it ok? I need to watch that one. [00:46:12.030] - Tamara If you liked Bridgton then you will definitely like that. [00:46:15.750] - Kim I've been thinking I need to watch that, but I want to watch Queen's Gambit first and I just started. I haven't watched it yet and I was debating because I was trying to start watching the office, which Paul really liked the office years ago, like when it was out and I never really got into it with him, but a couple of times I would see some episodes. And so I thought I should go back and start it like season one and watch it. Yeah, but then I was just like I loaded it and I watched the pilot last night. I was like, there's like nine seasons and they're twenty some episodes per season. I mean, it's a lot. [00:46:48.210] - Tamara We've watched all of those with Hannah like a few years ago we went through it. But I will say like I love the office. But the things that Michael did that were cringeworthy then are like a hundred times more cringeworth now. And you're like, how did they ever put that on the air? You know? [00:47:06.060] - Kim I watched the first one. I'm like, oh my goodness, this is sort of hard to watch. [00:47:09.640] - Fadra Pretty sure I worked for Michael Scott, so. I think we've seen every single episode about 17 times, so we're well versed in the office. [00:47:22.480] - Tamara What I want is just a compilation of all of the practical jokes that Jim plays on Dwight like that would just make me laugh, like I would roll over, you know, just like watching an hour straight of all of those. [00:47:35.920] - Fadra You know what? Let me just give one plug for a little show you guys should watch. Speaking of the office, it's a show on Netflix called We Are the Champions. If you haven't watched it, it's I think like a six or seven is running through my head. Yeah, it's like a six or seven episode docu series by Rainn Wilson, who played Dwight on the office. And, you know, I'm mentioning it because it goes to all different parts of the world and and the country so we can kind of tie it back to travel a little bit. [00:48:03.820] - Fadra And it's really about unique competitions. It's like there's one and I think it's England, a cheese rolling competition where they roll a wheel of cheese down a very steep hill in this small town. And it's a big competition for who can get to the bottom and catch the cheese first. There's another one about the frog jumping competition in Calberas County, California. So it's just a really fun show. And, you know, even the kids would like it. [00:48:31.870] Great recommendation. Well, thanks so much, Fadra, for spending time with us. And yeah, we look forward to hopefully chatting with you again soon and maybe eventually we'll see each other again on a vacation or somewhere.. [00:48:49.360] - Kim Well, as always, thanks for listening. And we have something exciting if you go to on Instagram, if you go to Stuffed Suitcase or We3Travel, go to one of our Instagram pages and check out our post. [00:49:01.390] - Kim We are actually doing a giveaway with a lot of amazing books that will help you at least be inspired. If you are thinking of planning a vacation, it'll help you get some things figured out and started on your vacation planning. So go to our Instagram and check that out. [00:49:17.620] - Tamara Yep. And stay tuned, because next week we're going to be talking about tips for saving for travel. And I think this is a big one because as we've talked about before, like budget is certainly an issue. And I think we're going to be trying to share as many tips as we can in the next few episodes and from different people about ways to save on travel and for travel. We'll chat with you again in two weeks.

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Episode 020 Indoor Surfing in New Jersey? (It really exists) and hunting Bigfoot in Oklahoma

Hacker Outdoors

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 27, 2021 49:27

Chris Barbieri sends us some videos from Mount Snow where he tried some glades. Brian reminisces about doing glades at Killington called Black Hole when he wasn't ready for it. Skier in Romania gets chased by a Bear: https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/watch-bear-chases-skier-down-mountain-in-romania/ Michael recounts his goal of going full Legends of the Fall with a bear. Michael took his godson trout fishing when it was 7 degrees. Michael had one hit but missed it. Lesson learned was to use a split shot to get the midge lower in the water column. Michael gets shows Dude Perfect fishing for Goliath Grouper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dycv5jdhx88 Michael introduces people to Ramp Monsters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkMy34Jbbww&t=850s Sturgeon, Great White Sharks, Salmon and more?! List of aquatic life in the Newark Bay Estuary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_life_of_New_York–New_Jersey_Harbor_Estuary A shark in the Gowanus? : https://ny.curbed.com/2014/7/14/10078646/meet-the-many-creatures-whove-swum-in-the-gowanus-canal 1997 UFO Lights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvKLeaPWPyw Fire in the Sky: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106912/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Travis Walton on Rogan: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0mCfpeY0Ga4meTanFzOkkL Spycraft on Netflix and the use of Drones: https://www.netflix.com/title/81014547 Make Rothman catches the biggest wave ever ridden: https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/20/makua-rothman-wave-hawaii-100-foot-surf-video/ Riding Giants: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/riding_giants Indoor surfing in NJ?: Skudin Surf: https://skudinsurfamericandream.com/indoor-wave-pool-sessions/private-dream-sessions/ Action Bronson at Skudin: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKYm9HPAged/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Sky Dive Sussex: https://www.skydivesussex.com And Lastly, Oklahoma introduces legislation to open hunting on Bigfoot: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oklahoma-lawmaker-proposes-a-bill-that-calls-for-creation-of-a-bigfoot-hunting-season/ar-BB1d5mnV Please leave us a rating and review and if you enjoyed todays podcast, please let us know in the comment section. If interested, please leave us a message to have your questions or comments played during the show. As always, you can find us everywhere you listen to your podcasts as well as on YouTube and Instagram. https://linktr.ee/HackerOutdoors Joey can be found on instagram at https://www.instagram.com/joeymccormack81/ and Snapchat at Joey4881 . --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/hackeroutdoors/message

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179 What to Expect at Ski Resorts this Winter

Vacation Mavens

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 15, 2020 42:03

Like everything, skiing is going to look a little different this year. This week on the podcast, Kim and Tamara talk about what to expect if you are planning a day trip or ski vacation this winter. Be prepared to make reservations, limited capacity, longer lift lines, and new lodge and shuttle procedures. Get the scoop! What to Expect at a Ski Resort in 2020-2021 Due to Covid, most resorts will ask you to book reservations in advance, which will make going for a last minute weekend trips harder. Priority for reservations has been given to season or EPIC pass holders. You are really going to have to do your research for the resorts you will want to go and find out what the rules and regulations are for booking your trip. You will also need to look into how you are going to get there. If you are going into a different state for your ski vacation you will also need to look into what that state's rules are for coming and going. Many ski resorts will not be running parking shuttles and/or mountain shuttles. If they are running, it will be at lower capacity and the wait times might be longer. A lot of Ski lodge eateries are going to require reservations. So you will need to plan out your runs more so that you don’t miss your reservation. Some places will also have a time limit that you will even be able to spend at your table. So no relaxing with a drink while you wait for your family to be done with a lesson or run. It will be easiest to stay in a ski in/ski out condo where you can make your own meals. If you or your child are going to need lessons, you will need to make reservations in advance. There likely will not be any full day ski programs for kids. Social distancing is a challenge in ski rental shops. It may be easier to arrange for ski rentals from a local ski shop and bring them with you. Alternatively, you can rent from someone that will deliver to your accommodations. You should look at your local state park websites and see if they offer any other winter activities like snowshoeing, sledding or even just playing in the snow. Mentioned on the Podcast Ski.com Episode 117 - Ski Resorts in the US for Family Travel Episode 37 - Planning a Family Ski Trip Read the Full Transcript [00:00:00.090] - Kim What to know before hitting the slopes this winter. [00:00:15.130] - Announcer Welcome to Vacation Mavens. A family travel podcast with ideas for your next vacation and tips to get you out the door. Here are your hosts, Kim from Stuffed Suitcase and Tamara from We3Travel. [00:00:30.340] - Tamara So Kim, winter is here and we are starting to think about what we're going to do outside since we know there's not a lot to do inside besides stay in our home. And I think you guys have really started to enjoy skiing a lot. Do you have plans to go skiing this winter? [00:00:47.160] - Kim Yeah, so we well, we had originally been thinking of going to Jackson Hole and that trip has been canceled, obviously. And so we are definitely sticking close to home. Thankfully, we have a local ski resort that's only about an hour and 15 minutes away that we like to go to. And it is an Epic Pass resort. [00:01:06.090] - Kim So we every year we kind of buy a four pack of passes for this resort and we go, you know, about once a month, sometimes twice. And so, yeah, we're planning on doing that again. It was a little different this year than what we've done in the past. So that was kind of the biggest change for us. But we're still planning on, you know, going skiing. We just know because of the changes, we're not able to just go, hey, do you guys want to go skiing this weekend? [00:01:30.360] - Kim Because, and that's what I'll go into I guess, is we bought our Epic Pass, which we normally end up buying them in October, that is when they start going on sale for the cheapest prices. [00:01:40.620] - Kim So it's kind of weird to be thinking that far ahead. But they start promoting and telling you to like buy in I think even August and September, they start selling the passes and by October they're giving you like, OK, it's the final day. You know, you need to get this purchased right away. And you can buy an Epic Pass that covers like a whole bunch of the Vail Resorts across the West Coast and even a lot of resorts in the East Coast also. [00:02:04.020] - Kim Or we buy just a four pack to our local resort that's close by and it's a little bit cheaper because it's a smaller resort. So we did that this year and got that purchase in advance. But then we got a notice that we had to make reservations for what days we want to go skiing this year, which is the big change, I think, that people might not be prepared for. [00:02:24.570] - Tamara Yeah, I've noticed that too. I've seen you know, I've kind of been tracking what's going on, even though I don't think we're going to be going skiing because there is actually one ski hill in Rhode Island, which is where you go to learn to ski, you know, initially. [00:02:39.510] - Tamara And I think Hannah did the black diamond after like six lessons, you know, so it's it's not much of a of a ski experience unless you're a little tiny kid learning to ski. [00:02:50.610] - Tamara But I've been listening to what's going on. And definitely it seems like many of the mountains are moving to this reservation system. I listened to a whole session from Ski Vermont, with all the different ski resorts kind of talking about their changes for this year. And it seems like some of the smaller mountains are not requiring reservations, but definitely all the bigger ones are. [00:03:14.930] - Tamara Not only that, but they're giving priority to reservations for pass holders. I think some of them are opening up for reservations on like December 8th. But the pass holders have already made all their reservations. So you're basically left with the leftovers at that point. [00:03:32.550] - Kim Yeah, that's been the biggest thing that the emails were suggesting and that I've seen is that pass holders have priority. So people who have like Epic Pass and Icon Pass and stuff like that. [00:03:41.820] - Kim And even, you know, if you have a season pass for that ski resort, they're giving those pass holders first option to book their their days. [00:03:52.050] - Kim So if you're planning on just buying a, you know, regular ski pass, you might have some trouble on the weekends getting a date. So it's definitely something you need to look into and be prepared for. [00:04:03.630] - Tamara Yeah, I know that in the past we've mostly done ski weekends when we go to Maine or Vermont and those you book in advance anyway because of your accommodations and you kind of hope for the best weather. But for more local things, sometimes I've been tempted to like go on Lifttopia and buy some passes in advance. [00:04:21.510] - Tamara But then I'm like, well, suppose like the weather isn't great, you know, because it varies so much and I've always like held off and now it's like, well, you're really locked in, especially, you know, it's one thing if you're making it like a weekend and it's if you if it isn't a great ski day, maybe the resort has like other things to do. [00:04:39.180] - Tamara But for you guys, where it's just like, OK, we're driving an hour and 15 minutes, we're going to ski this day, you know what? If the snow is terrible, what if it rains? There's like a lot more risk involved. [00:04:54.210] - Kim There's definitely a lot more risk because we've had those days where it's like, oh, it's you know, especially later in the spring here, out here by us, we they have something called Cascade Concrete. And as it gets towards, you know, February, March, the snow gets really wet and the way it falls really heavy and fast and wet, it's it's just like you get locked into place, like you can't even move. One time in March, our in-laws are visiting and they actually know where they had to carry like Lizzie and Mia down the hill because they couldn't even ski or move. [00:05:26.940] - Kim And their body weight isn't enough to break through the the thickness of the snow. So, yeah, I mean, if you pick a day and it's snowing heavy like that and you've got that really wet snow, you're kind of just wasted your pass day and you don't have as much freedom to go, oh, let's not go today because, you know, it's a lot of wet snow. So that's kind of a bummer. [00:05:45.740] - Tamara Yeah, we have that issue a little bit differently, but we get a lot of, ice and, things like that or, sometimes like last winter, there wasn't a lot of snow, so you could get up there and it's only the snow that they've made and that might be really icy. And I don't I don't really like skiing when it's only the snow that they've made because it's bare next to where your are skiing. [00:06:07.730] - Tamara And I know one time we were up in Okemo in Vermont, like one of the first weekends that they were open and they had such a base built up on the trails. But if you went off the edge of the trail, it was like you were just dropping down a few feet onto the ground. And it was also a weekend. It was like the first weekend ski racing was open and they were one of the first ones open in the state. [00:06:31.050] - Tamara So like all the ski racers in the in the whole state were there on the slopes, meanwhile, we're not confident skiers. And you got ski racers, zooming by you and. Yeah, this drop off the edge. We're like, oh, this is not an ideal experience. We're used to going in January, February like that. Not early in the season. [00:06:50.000] - Tamara Yeah. So I think that that's definitely an issue and it's but there's no way around it, you know, unless you are going to one of the smaller ski mountains, that doesn't require a reservation. [00:06:58.280] - Tamara I think really as with everything when it comes to covid and travel right now, it's doing your research during your research, not being a last minute planner and making sure that you're really reading through the website and the protocols and you're planning in advance and which, again, planning in advance a little bit difficult these days when you're like, I don't know what travel restrictions will change or will I be healthy and, you know, all those kind of things. [00:07:25.880] - Tamara So it's definitely it's a challenge. But hopefully, when people are out there, you'll feel like normal and you can enjoy the outdoors, the views, the exercise. [00:07:38.450] - Kim I think skiing would be the perfect kind of vacation getaway for 2020 or even, you know, winter 2021. Seems like it would be perfect. So we'll see. I think, though, if you're a first time skier and or if you're not really confident or if you're not into stresses and stuff like that, I probably would say this might be the winter to hold off and, you know, plan for that next ski vacation next winter, because I think there are going to be a lot of a lot of extra hiccups and things to think through. [00:08:13.310] - Kim So just now we've talked about the reservations and getting on the hill. But just getting to the hill is going to be another consideration people have to take into account. I've heard that some places are reserving parking lot reservations to be able to actually drive and park and other resorts are not running the mountain shuttles that normally would pick up in the town and drive you up to the mountain. [00:08:37.340] - Kim I think that some of those shuttles are either not being run at all or if they are, they're being run at a very low capacity, which is going to affect wait times and things. [00:08:45.830] - Tamara And there's nothing I hate more than having to schlep all my stuff and standing around and waiting for a shuttle. It's so irritating and frustrating. My biggest recommendation for this year would be splurge for the ski in, ski out like condo or hotel. [00:09:06.800] - Tamara I remember one year we were up at Mount Snow and Hannah had a fever, which, you know, thinking back like that would been a whole different thing now. [00:09:16.040] - Tamara But she really wanted to try to ski and we didn't realize how sick she was. So we were on the lift and her head whent down an clunked against the bar and I was like, oh my God, she is going to pass out on the lift. So I got her down and we went and we had to wait for a shuttle to get back to our condo. And I'm holding both of our stuff because she's too sick and I'm like propping her up and trying to get us on. [00:09:45.410] - Tamara I think our listeners might know that one of my favorite places to ski is Sun River in Maine. And there we usually do a ski in ski out condo. But there have been times where we might be staying off property and Glenn might drop us off at the front and then he would go park. [00:10:03.380] - Tamara And of course unless you're there really early, you have to park pretty far away and hope that there's a shuttle, but you can always walk it. In a lot of places, it's just too far to walk. Also at Sunday River and a lot of mountains, there are multiple mountains on the resort. So you can ski, take one lift up and you're skiing around and you kind of ski down another side. And then to get back to your original lodge, you have to take a shuttle if you don't want to go back up another trail. [00:10:34.820] - Tamara I definitely think, like every step of the experience, you have to think about what that's going to look like. If you are there for the day, a lot of times you just shove your bag either in a locker or just in the lodge somewhere and hope nobody takes it and you just leave there and you go back whenever you need to get it, that's going to look different this year. [00:10:53.620] - Kim Yeah, definitely. Everything you're saying is exactly what I think some of the things are that people have to consider. And I know that the other thing we should talk about is renting gear as its going to be another huge factor because people are cannot be crammed in a line and at the rental store waiting for their gear, it's going to have to be spread out. [00:11:17.230] - Kim And there's really going to be longer waits because they're not going to be able to cram in. I'm sure you've had this. I don't know how often you've rented, but there's like ten people on a bench and you're all getting fitted with your boots and all that stuff. [00:11:28.480] - Tamara We almost always rent because Hannah had some when she was younger, but she doesn't anymore. And Glenn has boots but not skis. So, yeah, we're always renting something. I think rentals are going to look totally different. Yeah. What we've done a lot of times is rent locally at a local ski shop and then bring it up with us. [00:11:47.380] - Kim Yeah, I agree. We have all of our own gear and so when we go locally we just take our gear, of course. And but when we've gone on trips we've always rented. But I do know something that people will want to look into is a lot of rentals will actually deliver your rentals if you're staying on property. And so if you have that option, if you are going somewhere, you're going to need rent. Try and find an outfitter that will deliver to your condo or whatever, because I think that's going to be that's always better anyways, because you waiting in those lines on their first morning is brutal. [00:12:21.310] - Tamara oh, I hate that. I always try if we can get in like the night before, before it closes, to pick up then. But sometimes you have only a certain number of hours or days. When I was booking travel for people I used ski.com and they did a lot of total packages where it was the accommodations, the lift tickets, and the rentals that were delivered to your accommodations. And that was a really nice one stop shop, so it might be something that people would look into. [00:12:52.960] - Kim Yeah, I think that's a good thing. So we've talked about reservations. We've talked about rentals. We've talked about shuttles and parking. What else do you think we should talk about? Probably eating. I think that's going to be another big thing. And the lodges. [00:13:05.860] - Tamara Yeah, definitely. I've looked at a couple of the mountains that we've typically gone to, and they're all doing reduced capacity when it comes to how many people can be in either a restaurant or even the kind of the more self serve type of things. So that's good. And that, to me, is always such a pain, my preference, and I think you're this way, too, is to ski as long as I can. And go inside after the main lunch crowd has eaten. And then I'm basically done for the day. Once I warm up and I loosen my boots and all of that and I've had my my beer I'm about done. [00:13:48.850] - Tamara But right now it looks like a lot of them are going to require a reservation for any of the sit down dining. And that impacts where you are on the mountain, how many more runs are you going to do, to get there in time for this reservation. [00:14:07.210] - Tamara You can't always plan it out quite so perfectly, not like when you are in the lodge and walking down to the restaurant. And then also they're going to have a cap of the time that you spend there. So my whole thing of like, oh, let's have my ramen soup and my beer and just hang out until Hannah's done her lesson, maybe can't do that anymore. [00:14:28.960] - Tamara I definitely think the ski in ski out would be so much easier. You can just go back to the condo and have your lunch there whenever you need to. [00:14:40.360] - Kim I think this is the year to, like you said, splurge for the ski and ski out condo and do your grocery shopping and all that. Because I know we stayed. Was it last year? Was that two years ago now? Now I can't even remember at Keystone. And it was an amazing time. We loved that. And we stayed in there in Riverrun Village and it was a condo and we were in walking distance. [00:15:02.170] - Kim I mean, it was a little bit of a walk, so you had to carry your gear and a lot of people had little wagons they would just pull behind them and carry their skis and boots and all that. But I think that it's definitely the year to do that because otherwise, your options are to packing lunch and snacks and all of that in the car. [00:15:27.460] - Kim And so then when everybody's ready for lunch, we'll be coming back to the parking lot, sitting in the car, eating our lunch and stuff, and then gearing back up and going back to finish out the day skiing. Normally in our family, the girls get lunch in the lodge and they eat macaroni and cheese or whatever they want, and then head back out on the mountain and then on their way home, they grab an early dinner. And normally, I know this sounds crazy about McDonald's, but that's kind of their tradition. [00:16:06.610] - Kim But I think your car is going to be your home base if you do not have a ski in ski out situation. I think that's what people should count on. And like I don't know how bathrooms are going to be handled because they're always so crazy and dirty. [00:16:22.960] - Tamara I was just thinking about that. I wonder if they will put in porta potties. Can you imagine trying to go in a porta potty in a snowstorm? Oh my goodness. [00:16:37.930] - Kim You know, this would be the year to make sure you have the pants and not the bibs with the suspenders because they're going to be hanging down on who knows what. [00:16:45.670] - Tamara Yes. It's so funny because obviously we're middle aged women and our listeners know bathrooms are something we think about. [00:16:54.220] - Tamara I was listening to this ski Vermont call and they were talking about lessons and, so we'll talk about lessons in a second. But one of the thing with lessons with little kids is some of them need some help, like you said, with all that gear, going to the bathroom. And so they were saying, we're not going to be able to do that. So you can only have a lesson if your child can, you know, go to the bathroom ourselves and all that. [00:17:18.530] - Tamara For lessons I used to sign her up for a full day lesson and they would all go and eat lunch together in their own little space. But that's not going to be allowed anymore. [00:17:28.660] - Tamara Obviously the size of lessons is going to be reduced. I think it's only going to be a half day or shorter lessons and then you can have a family lunch in between or something. [00:17:40.630] - Kim There's going to be a lot of differences and reservations, of course. [00:17:43.630] - Tamara Yeah. That's the one thing I've seen is that if you do want ski lessons, you need to make a reservation in advance. I'm curious how they'll do it. I don't know. I wonder if pricing will be higher because it's going to be semiprivate versus, you know, a big group of kids. So I don't know what that's going to look like because normally it's two kind of instructors and then like a class of like ten to twelve kids. [00:18:22.690] - Tamara I know some of the resorts were debating whether or not they should even open because even just hiring, I'm thinking in Vermont, a lot of resorts might hire from out of state and you can't do that now. [00:18:33.640] - Kim And so, yeah, I guess that they're living there. [00:18:36.490] - Tamara You can, but you don't know like what capacity you're actually going to have. [00:18:43.600] - Kim It's just really a huge task. And I really feel for the ski resorts trying to do their best. But there's so many contact points, you know, there's so many things to to think through for sure. And we didn't even talk about the lifts. [00:18:59.230] - Tamara Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's going to be that's going to be interesting because obviously you can't travel up with someone that is not in your party. So lift lines might move a little slower. And I know in the past well, because I love the part of the mountain that's, you know, not the blacks. So I go I tend to ski near where the ski school is. And so often the kids will be coming up and they'll be like, can you take one? Can you take one? Which always stressed me out anyway. Like, I don't want to be responsible for my own. [00:19:32.450] - Tamara I think I've talked about this before, but when you're already not a fully confident skier, especially, a few years ago before I had the experience that I do now, I was worried about getting myself off the lift, I didn't want to worry about a little kid. [00:19:46.510] - Tamara And then the few times we brought up a little kid, they're fearless and they're just kicking their feet and they're leaning down. They're sliding down. I'm like, oh, my God, they're going to go under. [00:19:54.540] - Kim Yeah. Yeah, exactly. [00:19:57.540] - Tamara And sometimes I would just be like, I'm really sorry, but I'm not comfortable because I don't want my kid with somebody that's not like fully comfortable. [00:20:06.960] - Tamara Yeah. So it'll definitely be a little bit slower on the lines. And then I have a feeling though, more people, more resorts might be moving to the scanners or the RFID where you don't have to get close to scan somebody. So maybe that can go like a little faster. [00:20:37.360] - Kim I think that it's going to be interesting also because I mean I'm thinking in those lines, like even when we talked to Rob with the Disneyland. Or I mean, Disney World and Universal, and he was talking about the switchbacks are skipped even, and I hadn't even considered that, like I was only thinking of the people, like in front of you being six feet apart. [00:20:55.810] - Tamara But, yeah, when you have, like, a normal like a snake line formation where you're backtracking back and forth and zigzagging you, I mean, you got to skip six feet there, too. [00:21:06.760] - Kim And so I don't know how the lines will work. I mean, I think in some ways it seems like it's going to be better because they're limiting the amount of people they're going to give passes to each day. But when you think of the limitations of, you know, only your party can go on the up the chairlift and things like that, it's going to look very different. And then I was even thinking like Keystone, they have a big tubing hill that's really fun and awesome. [00:21:33.340] - Kim And I'm thinking of that because when we were there, you know, everyone's just grabbing their tube and rushing over to get back up the because you get to be there for like an hour. [00:21:41.730] - Kim So the faster you are, getting off the hill and up back up the little conveyor belt that takes you up the mountain, the more rides you can get in. But that's just packed person to person to person. And so even that's going to be have to be spread out. So that's going to be a lot slower. And then you're not going to be waiting back to back with these people to go for your turn to go down the hill. [00:22:04.240] - Kim So that's going to all just look very different. So I don't know what what's going to happen with some of those extracurricular things, too. But, yeah, I think the the lines on the chairlifts are going to be are going to move slower and they're probably going to be a lot more spread out than you're used to. [00:22:18.760] - Tamara Yeah, because I'm thinking of different ones that I'm familiar with. And it's not necessarily the zigzag, but there might be three lines, coming in and then you alternate, when you get up to the front. [00:22:40.480] - Tamara One thing that we haven't talked about yet, too, is just, travel restrictions. Yeah. I know that, you know, we we've been dealing with travel restrictions here for many months, but places like California and even Washington, you know, like you, you guys have started to implement at least recommendations or some restrictions. And, I think about Vermont was saying that they are usually so busy with people from New York and New Jersey that come up because they're one of the closest resorts for that. [00:23:09.160] - Tamara And they don't anticipate that that would happen this year because they have a 14 day quarantine requirement or can do like seven days plus a test. [00:23:20.020] - Tamara But you're certainly not going to have weekend people that are coming up. And I did ask because everyone's like, well, are they really checking? I asked a couple of the different major resorts and hotels and they actually said that they reach out to everyone that they see from out of state with an out-of-state reservation. [00:23:38.620] - Tamara So this wouldn't probably be the same for some rentals, you know, but for at least hotels, if they see you're coming from a state that would require a quarantine, which is pretty much everyone, they reach out to you and they ask you like, what's your plan? And you have to submit something that says I'm quarantined at home or this is where I'm quarantining before I arrive. [00:23:56.630] - Tamara So they are being proactive with it. So it's not like I'll just ignore that guideline. [00:24:03.730] - Kim Yeah, I think that's one of the big reasons Washington and I think California is a recommended as well. I can't remember California, but they're not able to enforce it. And I think it's because you get to a certain level of people and they just can't follow up with every reservation in person. But that's good that it's being I mean, it's kind of like, again, going back to that idea of the theme parks you can have rules, but enforcing them is what's going to actually provide the the feeling of safety. [00:24:33.700] - Tamara So definitely and honestly, I mean, we should just talk about the elephant that's in the room, which is we all know that right now there's not many places where cases aren't on the rise. [00:24:44.770] - Tamara You know, things aren't looking good. So I think what you are planning is is good, right? You're local. You're just going to drive there and follow the protocols and enjoy your day. But in terms of, like ski travel, I think people really need to think about what that really would entail and whether or not that is something that they should really be taking part of right now. [00:25:09.850] - Kim Well, I know this is kind of getting a little macabre, but even looking at if something does happen to you on a ski hill and you have a catastrophic accident or whatever, like, you know, ICU room beds and hospitals near some of these ski resorts and what are their what are their abilities to take care of you at that point? [00:25:38.380] - Kim I know that Idaho is very popular ski resort, but I know last month they were asking Washington State whether they could take some patients and staff possible, they're trying to set up things to possibly take some patients because of the covid numbers on the rise there and the hospitals being full. [00:25:56.660] - Kim So that's definitely another aspect, like you said, to keep in mind and whether people should be traveling or feel comfortable traveling right now and doing something that is kind of a, you know, not high risk sport, but it is a sport that comes with possible consequences. [00:26:11.800] - Tamara It does. I know a number of people that have broken things. You know, I mean, it doesn't have to be completely catastrophic, but even that is exactly not ideal for sure. I mean, even here in Rhode Island, they opened field hospitals yesterday. [00:26:31.360] - Kim So I think that's just something for everyone to keep in mind. We're not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but definitely something to consider. And and all of this information hopefully won't even be a problem. And if you just think, you know, try and maybe stay close to home and then look ahead to next winter might be a fabulous time. And you can really relax and enjoy it. [00:26:55.480] - Tamara And for the people that don't live near a ski resort, it's definitely a good time to start thinking about next year. If you wanted to go back and listen to a couple of our previous episodes, I know we did Episode 117, which was 2019. We did an episode on the best ski resorts for families. And so that would give people a lot of ideas. [00:27:17.680] - Tamara We tried to cover both the East Coast, West Coast, Colorado, Utah area. So we've got a lot that we covered in that one that would be good to go back and listen to. And then we did a previous episode. I can't remember the number of that one, but it was just kind of about planning your first ski trip for a family and things to keep in mind. So some good episodes to go back to two really good ones. [00:27:39.190] - Kim I think skiing is a fun sport. It's expensive also. And I think that's another thing for people to just keep in mind is the the cost of lift tickets and everything, make sure you're looking into that in advance and rentals and getting that all figured out, you know, so you're not surprised by anything. [00:27:54.730] - Tamara Yeah. And in the meantime, I think that there's also other ways to get outside this winter. I know that snowshoeing is going to be really popular as well as Nordic skiing, because there you don't have to deal with some of the same issues in terms of the lines and things like that. And and many times, if a resort offers Nordic or snowshoeing, many times it's out of a separate lodge or soopers facility, you know, so you're not always dealing with the the main crowd. [00:28:23.770] - Tamara It's funny, there have been so many different things where I've predicted like, oh, there's going to be a run on that. I'm like there's going to be a run on snow shoes by that. It's funny though because I forget we were watching, but it was like a commercial or something. And they're like, this is hard to find. And Hannah looked at me and she was like, you just said, that was going to be hard to find like a month ago. And I'm like, I should go play the lottery. [00:28:46.570] - Kim Yeah, exactly. You should be in marketing. So that makes sense. [00:28:53.050] - Kim Well, and that was what I was going to say, is I actually and I feel kind of stupid for not realizing this, but I actually recently looked up because I was trying to figure out if I could find snow anywhere near as that has like an easy parking lot for like from some photos I wanted to get. And I realized that in our state if youlook up your state park system, so for me, Washington state parks, and you can find that they actually have snow parks. And these are parks that are specifically designed for people to just go play in the snow. So you can do you can park at a trailhead and you can go snowshoeing or you can, you know, build a snowman or you can go sledding and things like that. And some have there's also some winter recreation parks specifically for like snowmobiles. [00:29:35.950] - Kim And then they'll have like non motorized that are specifically, again, for people to be able to go snowshoeing and play in the snow and sledding. So if you're curious and you want to get out and enjoy the winter, look up your state park system and see what they have listed for like winter recreation, because you might be surprised and find that there's some, you know, parks specifically for snow play and or trails specifically for, you know, like you said, snowshoeing and Nordic skiing. [00:30:00.310] - Kim So don't be scared to look on your local state park website. [00:30:04.420] - Tamara That's a great recommendation. Definitely not something that I think I have here. But, you know, many places that would have larger state park systems or more opportunity for snow probably would. So it's great. [00:30:16.690] - Kim Yeah, well, you just go in your backyard, right? [00:30:18.970] - Tamara Well, hopefully not too much. I mean, we did have that one snow in October, but last year we didn't get very much. I really enjoy snowshoeing. You know, I've done it a couple of times. I've always surprised by what hard work it is, you know. But I would like to get snow shoes. But they're a little pricey. I mean, you can get them for like one hundred and fifty or so. [00:30:42.580] Yeah. Good ones. Because if you're going to buy some, you want to splurge a little because you want the lightweight ones, because it is hard work and lifting your feet up and stuff, you definitely want the you want the titanium ones, not the stainless steel or whatever. [00:30:57.440] - Tamara And then I'm like, do I really want to get them now when I don't really want to spend money and who knows if it'll snow or not. And you know, it's one of those things. [00:31:13.590] - Kim Yeah, well, it might be a time to look also on your local Craigslist or Facebook marketplace, because people might be upgrading their snowshoes this year and getting rid of older ones. [00:31:23.490] - Tamara You know, you never know. It's funny. Right before the pandemic, I've had my basement for years. Hannah's old skis and and ski boots, like from when she was really little that I have never bothered to bring to a place to sell. [00:31:35.280] - Tamara And I keep thinking, should I donate it or should I sell it? So I had that for a while. And then I had a chest freezer that we just hadn't used in years. And before the pandemic, I sold both of them. But I sold both of them. And I'm like, well, that was bad timing. Like, I could have gotten so much more. So much more. And it's funny, I guess I'm good with some timing and bad with others. [00:32:04.110] But hopefully we'll all find some ways to get outdoors this winter because we'll need we'll need it. We'll need the fresh air. We'll need the change of scenery. I know there used to be so many places that we would go in the winter to, you know, be entertained even when it's freezing out. And those are not places that I feel comfortable going right now. [00:32:24.120] - Kim Well, most of them are not open anyway. Yeah, I was going to say I feel like for us, it's cruising is always a very popular thing for people to go down to the Caribbean and take a cruise. And I don't know where people are going to escape to this winter. [00:32:36.960] - Tamara Well, I know that we will be inside a bit more this winter and not really going to many places. But do you have any holiday plans? Do you have any special traditions or things that you're going to put in place for the girls to try to make it as festive as you can? [00:32:52.900] - Kim I think it's probably going to be a pretty standard holiday for us. We already if some people follow me on Instagram, they already maybe saw that one of our biggest traditions because we live in Washington state is that we we go and pick out our Christmas tree at a local Christmas tree farm in advance. [00:33:08.830] - Kim And so we you know, at the beginning of November, we go and you walk around their farm and you pick the tree you want and you wrap it up and you take off a little tag and they write it down that this is your tree. And so then we went the weekend of Thanksgiving and we actually cut down our tree and brought it home and then we'll decorate it and everything. So that's kind of one of our big holiday traditions. And it is interesting, though, is that girls have gotten older. [00:33:32.620] - Kim They're less like into it, as we used to be, which is kind of sad. But so we're we're sticking with that. And then we'll just have our standard, you know, holiday. My mom is our she's lives out here and she's alone. And so she part of kind of our bubble unit. And so we'll have her over for Christmas. And that's that's about it. It'll be a pretty easy at home. We had planned to go to Canada like we try and add in Canada a couple every few years. [00:33:59.500] - Kim And we were this was supposed to be a Canada Christmas year. So for us, we are not going to Canada for Christmas, but we will still have a wonderful time at home and just relax. And I know that Paul has a bunch of vacation time, so he's going to be taking off. I think he gets like the two weeks, the last two weeks of the year off. So that'll be a nice little thing to have just some family time at home. [00:34:21.580] - Tamara That's good. Hopefully he can do some skiing. [00:34:24.400] - Kim Yeah, exactly. We've got a couple a few days. We've got four days booked, so. Yeah. So what about you guys? Do you have any holiday plans this month and in the year? [00:34:33.610] - Tamara This will be definitely very different for us because we're never home on Christmas. You know, we always go down to my mom's house and we see my whole family for Christmas and she lives in New Jersey. And it's if we put our whole like my immediate family, my brothers, my sisters, their kids, now, they're kids, kids together. I think we're like twenty six people. So that is not happening. So it'll be sad. [00:34:57.490] - Tamara I'll be the first time ever that we've been home for Christmas. And as you guys know, like we have a Jewish home, so we don't have a Christmas tree and all that kind of stuff. And I've never really thought about it because we're just not here. I don't want to miss the specialness of it, but I don't know quite what to do to create it. You know, it's only it's just the three of us. [00:35:26.080] - Tamara It's always just the three of us, you know, like we don't have anybody nearby. So I'm not sure. But I think what I will enjoy is the fact that this month is going to be quieter. You know, usually it feels like such a rush and so busy and so I don't feel like making Christmas cookies because I always go down to New Jersey and my sister makes like twenty six kinds of cookies and my brother makes like twenty kinds. [00:35:52.630] - Tamara My mom makes like twenty kinds and they all give us like these big tins of cookies and we come back and we have cookies for like months. So I was like OK Hannah like let's make some cookies, like let's pick which ones we want to make. We're going to make cookies and we'll deliver them to like her friends and, you know, we'll deliver them to people. So that'll make us feel like we're doing something special. And then a lot of times, like for Hanukkah, it is like on top of Christmas or it's like too early. [00:36:18.700] - Tamara It's you know, it's like it's never a great time. And we like I like to make potato pancakes and applesauce. [00:36:29.380] - Tamara And when I do it, I make like pounds and pounds of potatoes. So it's like a whole day affair, like I'm frying for hours and then my entire house smells. The kitchen is like coated in grease. So it's basically like my time to deep clean the kitchen. I cook all day and then I clean it all spraying down the cabinets and everything like it, everything really clean, you know. [00:36:53.740] - Tamara But I don't always have time to do that. So some years I'm like, oh, I'm just not like making them this year because it's not worth the effort to just make a few. It's like you want to make a lot. So I think this year, like that weekend, that Hanukkah falls over, like I'll just make a bunch of latkes and maybe do the same, like give them out to some people and, you know, make it festive. [00:37:14.680] - Tamara We are going to do like a drive through holiday lights thing. [00:37:22.390] - Tamara But you know what to figure out as we go. I mean it in a way it's like nice to not have to travel, but our Christmas is like this Christmas spectacular of you know, we drive down to New Jersey and Christmas Eve is at my brother's house and he has done for thirty years, I think, like where he does appetizers and we look forward to certain appetizers that he does. [00:37:43.120] - Tamara And then Christmas Day, we used to always go to my sister's house and now we go to my nephew's house. And then the day after Christmas, my mom does a whole big dinner and we. Are all at her house, you know, and then we drive home the next day and sometimes we stop at New York, in New York on the way home and we see some family there, or we visit the, you know, the Christmas decorations in New York City, you know, do something like that. [00:38:04.900] - Tamara So it's it's always been like a big thing. So it's going to be like definitely really different. And if anybody wants to send me a little holiday cheer message, I'm sure that I will appreciate it at that time because I'm going to be just, like, bored. [00:38:21.260] - Kim Do you guys do light a menorah? [00:38:23.530] - Tamara We do at home. So, yeah, we'll be at least you'll be home for more of the and we'll all be here, which a lot of years like, you know, Glenn is traveling or something. [00:38:31.870] - Tamara So like I'll do the candles with Hannah, but then we don't always do like I used to always get her eight gifts and she would open one a day. This year she needed a new computer. So she's not getting gifts. [00:38:43.840] - Kim So you're like, here's a monitor, here's a mouse. Here's your cell, you know? [00:38:49.870] - Tamara Yeah, it'll it'll be different. In the New Year's Eve, we always the last quite a few number of years have done with our neighbors that live up the street. And they also love food the way that we do. And so Glenn and Greg just cook this amazing, like multi course, like gourmet food. We have caviar, we have oysters. Like, it's amazing. It's this it's actually my favorite day of the entire year. [00:39:16.090] - Tamara And I don't you know, I don't know if there'll be a way to do that safely or not. I was like, well, maybe we can deliver courses to each other and cook, like, over a face time. I don't know, we have to figure out if there's a way, we'll be quarantined. [00:39:27.670] - Tamara So if you guys are willing to quarantine ahead of time because we don't we won't be seeing anyone, then we'd be good. But I think they would do it, but I'm not so sure their sons would be willing to do that. [00:39:39.610] - Kim Teenagers make things a little tricky. Well, and we have right now that with Lizzie has a job now outside the home. So that's she's kind of our biggest risk for our family because the rest of us are at home all the time. So yeah, it's definitely gets interesting. It's really hard to find someone that you can, you know, pod up with that. [00:40:23.050] - Kim Yeah, well, hopefully it'll work out and that you guys will have some new memories and discover some fun ways, you know, fun activities together and stuff. I hope it works out. And for all of our listeners, this is going to be our last episode for the year. So we are wrapping up 2020. It was definitely a different year than other years for Vacation Mavens. And hopefully you guys have enjoyed what we've still shared. And we really appreciate you guys coming along during these crazy times. [00:40:50.950] - Kim And, you know, joining us every other week to listen to what we ramble on about. [00:40:57.010] - Tamara Yeah, we definitely really, really appreciate it, especially sticking with us when, you know, we all know we're not traveling as much as possible. And we always love those kind of encouraging messages that listeners send about different episodes or just when when we realize that someone that follows us on Instagram is also a listener, you know, things like that. It's just it's very heartwarming. And we definitely appreciate it. [00:41:21.430] - Kim And we hope that you all have a very safe and wonderful holiday season. We will be back, you know, next year, probably going to stick to our every other week schedule for a while until at least until travel should pick up more. And we actually enjoy having a little extra time in our schedules, too. So definitely. Anyway, wishing everyone a very happy holiday. Yeah. Happy holidays, everyone. Thanks again by.

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Podcast #32: Hermitage Club General Manager Bill Benneyan (+ a Mountain Creek Bonus)

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 4, 2020 95:22

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette. Get 10 percent off subscriptions with the code “GOHIGHER10” at check-out. Get 10 percent off everything else with the code “EASTCOAST.”Who: Bill Benneyan, General Manager of Hermitage Club, Vermont, and former President, COO, and General Manager of Mountain Creek, New Jersey.Recorded on: December 1, 2020Why I interviewed him: So you’re profiling a mountain with a 50K buy-in and another 15 grand a year to keep playing in the sandbox? This from the same podcast/newsletter outfit that constantly bumps the virtues of the $229 Indy Pass and its motley coalition of back-of-the-woods, shack-at-the-bottom-of-a-40-year-old-double-chair family-run ski areas? The same Storm Skiing Journal that’s constantly complaining about the price of single-mountain season passes ticking percentage points above the cost of big-money-backed Epic and Ikon Passes? What gives, Bro? The thing about lift-served skiing is that it’s a big, complicated, wonderful kingdom, with room for almost infinite interpretations of how a ski area can exist, function, operate, and thrive. The private ski area is one of many possible versions of Haystack as a ski area, and, as it turns out due to a clause in a previous sales contract, the only possible skiing-based version, as Bill explains in the podcast. It’s this or watch the place disappear back into the mountain over the next 30 years. Besides, there is nothing to be bitter about here: the one percenters didn’t rope off Killington or Sugarbush. This is a 1,400-vertical-foot mountain that’s steps away from one of the largest ski areas in Vermont (Mount Snow), and within an hour of three other larger ones (Stratton, Bromley, Magic). There are budget ways to ski each or all of these, and the presence of a tony version of these southern Vermont mainstays does more to bolster the region’s overall ski cache and culture than anything. Besides, the mountain, with all its intermittent struggles and triumphs, survives against considerable odds, and that’s a story I wanted to hear.I also wanted to talk about Mountain Creek. And you Mountain Creek haters are just going to have to find a way to deal with that.The ski area. Photo courtesy of Hermitage ClubWhat we talked about:Hermitage Club: How a group of former members superheroed out of the clear blue sky to buy the ski area out of auction in spite of protests from irascible failed owner Jim Barnes; the status of Barnes’ legal challenges to the new ownership group; the importance of operating the new operation with integrity to win back the trust of a traumatized community; the endless tension between resorts and resort towns; the club’s roots and how Hermitage Club 1.0 went wrong; same name, new business – this is a total reset; dealing with Vermont’s Act 250; the immense package of assets that came with the ski area; what the new owners sold to refocus on skiing; why the club contracted the Schaefer family, owners of Berkshire East and Catamount, to help run the place; rebuilding the workforce after the ski area sat dormant for two years; ISO: Snowcat driver/sous chef; the ski area’s anticipated operating season; why Hermitage Club aka Haystack could never operate as a public ski area; private rentals are available; membership caps, both for this season and long term; opportunities for summer business; Benneyan’s reaction to Chris Diamond’s assertion in Ski Inc. 2020 (a must-read) that the Hermitage Club was unlikely to ever be viable as a private ski area; the zany, uneven history of Haystack ski area; ditching the lobster thermidor for a more reality-based experience; what it takes to become a member; whether former members of the bankrupt club were grandfathered into the new iteration; how to ski the club if you’re not a member; what would have happened had someone bought and removed the Barnstormer six-pack; the justification behind removing the Hayfever Triple (which is now Bousquet’s summit chair); the state of the remaining lift fleet; possible future lift additions; the impact of losing 41 snowguns to Mount Snow and the condition of the snowmaking system in general; future snowmaking improvements; the state of the trail network and how the crew prepped the whole thing to come back online for the 2020-21 ski season; long-term trail expansion opportunities; what the ski area wants to upgrade next; how the private club intends to honor the history of the public Haystack mountain; and the club’s relationship with neighboring Mount Snow.Mountain Creek: Why I’m an unapologetic Mountain Creek fan in spite of its obvious flaws; how the place “gets in your blood”; how to manage the hordes of terrible skiers that overwhelm the place on any given weekend; how true Creek skiers manage the crowds; why NYC is lucky to have a mountain of that size that close; the immense challenges of managing a large ski area with two base areas, marginal temperatures, enormous crowds, and little natural snow; why Mountain Creek may be the best ski area in the country to learn the business; the incredible and surreal transformation of the ski area from Vernon Valley-Great Gorge to Mountain Creek in the Intrawest post-acquisition maelstrom summer of 1998; the regulatory obstacles that were waiting like a brick wall to stop Intrawest’s 100-mile-an-hour machine; the grand and unrealized vision of Mountain Creek-as-quaint-ski-village and why that didn’t happen; how the great transformation changed the mountain’s character; how Intrawest decided what to replace and what to install instead; the true story behind the installation of the Cabriolet and its “flying buckets,” the most ridiculed ski lift in the Northeast; why Creek didn’t ultimately work out as an Intrawest property. Photo courtesy of Hermitage Club.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interview: Because 10 months ago, Hermitage Club looked like it was about to be dismantled and sold off like a decommissioned warship. Vail had plucked more than three dozen snowguns off the ski area’s slopes and moved them over to Mount Snow. Boyne, among others, had bid on the Barnstormer high-speed six-pack and was ready to send in the helicopters to move it God knows where in its giant network. The place had sat fallow for two seasons, and if Hermitage Club lost that lift, it likely would have followed nearby Maple Valley into the abyss of lost ski areas. Then, miraculously, in the wild and silent early days of the pandemic, when all news was THAT news, a group of 181 mostly former owners announced that they had bought the ski area and all related assets at auction for a touch over $8 million. This despite a barrage of legal hijinks meant to overturn or delay the ruling by former owner and world-class knucklehead Jim Barnes. The new owners, a collection of mostly business professionals more capable with a Power Point deck than a Snowcat, made a couple of key early decisions that reset the club’s scope and made sure the snowguns would be pointed in the right direction: they shed extraneous assets to refocus on skiing, and they brought in a posse of ski industry badasses who could probably set up a snowskiing operation in the Florida Keys if you let them try it. That included, as consultants, the Schaefer family, who are the long-time operators of Berkshire East and Catamount ski areas in Massachusetts (Jon Schaefer has appeared twice on The Storm Skiing Podcast), and Benneyan, who for more than two decades learned how to pull a bear out of a rabbit-sized hat as one of the top guys at Mountain Creek, a snowskiing operation where it seems to never snow anymore. Compared to North Jersey, Southern Vermont is Little Cottonwood Canyon, and the team that’s in charge of the skiing is going to make sure the skiing is as good as the skiing can possibly be. I think they’re doing it right this time, and I wanted to hear about it from the guy in charge of making it all happen. Why you should go there: Well you probably can’t, but let’s suspend our imaginations for a moment and pretend an initiation fee about equal to the average annual American income is not an obstacle: you should go there because skiing in Southern Vermont on a weekend can feel like trying to catch the last shuttle off Planet Earth before its molten core atomizes its population into spacedust. Skiing at Hermitage Club is probably not like that. It’s probably like skiing at Hunter on a windy day when it’s 37 degrees and raining. Only without the wind or the rain - just the almost complete absence of people. Or it’s probably like skiing at a place everybody forgot about, or a place from the past, but like a weird steampunk past where they’d invented shaped skis and six-passenger bubble chairs. Or it’s all of those things. It’s probably just amazing. And if you have kids and a bank balance that has a hard time finding a teeter-totter partner, then this is something you may want to think about, especially in this year when flying is bad and crowds are bad and crossing state lines is bad. But if you’re just a regular dude whose money has to be spent on, you know, food and that kind of b******t, then make friends with a member, because members are allowed to bring guests (eventually). Or, you know, save up and make it happen. Good luck.Bonus video:Here’s a cool video of The Witches pod that the previous iteration of the club commissioned:In case you’re digging the Mountain Creek history bit:For context on the Mountain Creek conversation, the Vernon Valley-Great Gorge trailmap in 1997, the year before Intrawest bought the place:The transformation for the 1998 season was remarkable - perhaps the largest single-season overhaul of a ski area in the history of lift-served skiing. Only two of the chairlifts from the map above remain (the Vernon Triple, which stands today, and the Soujourn Double, which was replaced a few years back with another double; the tow ropes have all since been removed and replaced with a cluster of magic carpets adjacent to the Cabriolet): Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

Podcast #29: Mount Snow General Manager Tracy Bartels

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2020 57:05

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette. The first issue drops later this month, and you can get 10 percent off subscriptions with the code “GOHIGHER10” at check-out. Get 10 percent off everything else with the code “EASTCOAST.”Who: Tracy Bartels, Vice President and General Manager of Mount Snow, VermontRecorded on: November 2, 2020Why I interviewed her: Because Mount Snow is where big-time Northeast skiing begins. As the southern-most major Vermont ski area, it is a skier’s gateway to mountains that are big enough to get lost on. From its strategic position in the orbit of the East Coast megalopolis, successive owners have gradually built something uniquely suited to the frenetic swarms of wildly varied skiers who bullseye the place each winter: Mount Snow has one of the most outstanding terrain parks in America and one of the best snowmaking systems in the world. The families who swarm here find absolutely unintimidating terrain, blue as the sky and groomed smoother than I-91. It’s a perfect family mountain and a perfect bus skier’s mountain and a perfect first step from Mount Local to something that shows you how big skiing can be. It was the crown jewel of the Peak Resort’s empire, and it’s one of the most important pieces to Vail’s ever-expanding Epic jigsaw puzzle. I wouldn’t call it a special mountain – the terrain is mild and not terribly interesting, and the volume and quality of natural snowfall is best described as adequate. But it is a vital mountain, as the southern-most anchor of Vermont’s teeming ski scene, as an accessible ski experience for weekending cityfolk, as an aspirational destination for people stepping more fully into skiing culture, and as a testament to the power of the imagination to transform a big vertical drop and cold skies into a vital and vibrant node of the regional ski scene.Killing it in the trees. Photo courtesy of Vail Resorts.What we talked about: If you think it’s hard starting your marketing job from your dining room table, try running a ski area from another state; the extent of the mountain’s summer operations and how long it took to get those running; thinking through the masterplan for a mountain that has already had tens of millions invested into it over the past decade; potential future snowmaking improvements; why we’re unlikely to see a massive overhaul of the chairlift infrastructure in the near future; potential base lodge improvements; Bartels’ career path through Vail Resorts, starting as a kids ski instructor at Breckenridge 20 years ago; how Vail develops and moves employees through its resort network and why that’s good for business; how managing international destination mountains in the West is the same as managing them in the Northeast, and the big terrible way that it’s different (you all know what it is); what the Western resorts could learn from Northeast operations; how managing Mount Snow is a more complex undertaking than managing Mount Sunapee; the cultural differences between the two regions and how the Northeast stands out; Covid-era operations changes; most skiers should be able to ski most days at Mount Snow even with the reservation system; how that system will influence the number of day lift tickets available; balancing the blowout deal of the Epic Pass with the desire to keep ski areas from being overrun; the ops plan for the Bluebird Express; reminiscing on the Covid shutdown at Mount Sunapee; how Vail has learned from operating its Australian ski resorts over the summer; the parts of the mountains that are still in suspended animation from the March shutdown; how the losses of longtime grooming team members Leon and Cleon Boyd to Covid impacted the resort community; wow we won’t have to take our Epic Passes out of our pocket every time we ski up to a lift this year; why Vail favors handheld scanner guns over RFID gates; going deep on Carinthia and how much it takes to maintain a park of that size and complexity; the challenges of maintaining a super pipe and why Mount Snow has stayed with it even as many ski areas have abandoned it; why we’re unlikely to see any notable terrain expansions; yes I am on a quest to destroy Northeast over-grooming culture bwahahahahahaha; no but seriously talking about Bartels’ grooming philosophy and the advantages of creating a more balanced mountain.Things that are outdated because we recorded this last week: We refer to the planned Nov. 14 opening date, which with current weather forecasts now seems as likely a moon landing in a hot-air balloon. We also talk about the imminent release of Vermont’s ski area operating protocols, which the state has since announced. Finally, we refer to the Nov. 6 launch of Vail’s Epic Pass reservation system, which is now fully operational. I would have liked to have released this earlier, but frankly we recorded this the day before the presidential election and I wanted to give the news cycle a little time to clear out before pushing this one out there.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interview: Because Bartels, a 20-year Vail Resorts veteran, brings a deep understanding of the company’s ways to a Mount Snow still adjusting to post-Peak Resorts life. After a year settling into the Northeast ski scene as Mount Sunapee GM, she moves to one of Vail’s most important Northeast mountains. I wanted to see how she was approaching the particular challenge of steering a new-to-her mountain through the novel challenge of Covid, how she managed the shutdown at Sunapee, and her thoughts on the Northeast ski world and culture after a career spent mostly in the snowy West. I also wanted to see if perhaps she would bring a more freewheeling Western sensibility to Mount Snow’s forever overgroomed slopes, injecting some variety into a mountain often cursed by a dulling sameness (Fortunately, she seems open to that).Why you should go there: Because for most of us, it’s the closest big Vermont ski area to where we live. It’s big and rambling and fast and fun. The sculpted terrain of Carinthia aside, this is probably the tamest large mountain on the continent (Okemo competes with it for this title) - the trails are largely blue square boulevards groomed nightly into a coma. But that’s OK: the toothless trail network makes Mount Snow one of the best large mountains imaginable for kids or people who ski five days a year or those who like to just put the gearshift into drive and go. If you want to see where the Northeast’s running-of-the-bulls ice-skating reputation comes from, drop by on a holiday Saturday after it hasn’t snowed in two weeks. If you want to see why people love skiing the Northeast anyway, show up mid-week during a snowstorm and walk onto the Blue Bird Express for 30,000 feet of gloriously stress-free vert. This isn’t the biggest mountain in Vermont, and it isn’t the best, either, but it’s an essential place and one that anyone who wants to truly experience and understand Northeast skiing must visit. Also, you’ll find plenty of this here:Carinthia will bring out your inner superhero. Photo courtesy of Vail Resorts.And plenty of this:Rip it. Photo courtesy of Vail Resorts.Additional reading/videos: Mount Snow has a zany history, with early years defined by a hottub the size of Lake Champlain, an artificial ski hill called Fountain Mountain that materialized out of a pond each winter and lasted well into summer, and an oddball collection of chairlifts straight out of The Jetsons. For an amazing history of that time, check out Chris Diamond’s Ski Inc. His follow-up, Ski Inc. 2020 is also a must-read for anyone who wants to understand how the modern ski industry became what it is today.The Brattleboro Reformer put together this video documenting the community reaction to the death of longtime Mount Snow employees Cleon and Leon Boyd from Covid:A bit more on Cleon Boyd:Follow The Storm Skiing Journal on Facebook and Twitter.COVID-19 & Skiing Podcasts: Author and Industry Veteran Chris Diamond | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | NSAA CEO Kelly Pawlak | Berkshire East/Catamount Owner & Goggles for Docs founder Jon Schaefer | Shaggy’s Copper Country Skis Cofounder Jeff Thompson | Doppelmayr USA President Katharina Schmitz | Mt. Baldy GM Robby Ellingson | Alterra CEO Rusty Gregory | NSAA Director of Risk & Regulatory Affairs Dave ByrdThe Storm Skiing Podcasts: Killington & Pico GM Mike Solimano | Plattekill owners Danielle and Laszlo Vajtay | New England Lost Ski Areas Project Founder Jeremy Davis | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | Lift Blog Founder Peter Landsman | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Burke Mountain GM Kevin Mack | Liftopia CEO Evan Reece | Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer | Vermont Ski + Ride and Vermont Sports Co-Publisher & Editor Lisa Lynn | Sugarbush President & COO Win Smith | Loon President & GM Jay Scambio | Sunday River President & GM Dana Bullen | Big Snow & Mountain Creek VP of Sales & Marketing Hugh Reynolds | Mad River Glen GM Matt Lillard | Indy Pass Founder Doug Fish | National Brotherhood of Skiers President Henri Rivers | Winter 4 Kids & National Winter Activity Center President & CEO Schone Malliet | Vail Veterans Program President & Founder Cheryl Jensen | Mountain Gazette Owner & Editor Mike Rogge | Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows President & CMO Ron Cohen | Aspiring Olympian Benjamin Alexander | Sugarloaf GM Karl Strand – Parts One & Two | Cannon GM John DeVivo | Fairbank Group Chairman Brian Fairbank | Jay Peak GM Steve Wright | Sugarbush President & GM John Hammond Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

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Podcast #26: Fairbank Group (Jiminy Peak, Cranmore, Bromley) Chairman Brian Fairbank

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 16, 2020 82:00

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette. The first issue drops in November, and you can get 10 percent off subscriptions with the code “GOHIGHER10” at check-out. Get 10 percent off everything else with the code “EASTCOAST.”Who: Brian Fairbank, Chairman of the Fairbank Group, which owns Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts and Cranmore in New Hampshire, and manages Bromley in Vermont. Fairbank Group also manages real estate, snowmaking, renewable energy, and ski resort employee education companies.Recorded on: Oct. 7, 2020Crushing a pow day at Cranmore. Photo by Josh Bogardus, courtesy of Cranmore.Why I interviewed him: Because in an industry littered with collapsed conglomerates and poor decisions, Fairbank has found a way to thrive. For decades. Massachusetts is not an easy place to run a downhill operation, as evidenced by the nearly 200 lost ski areas fading into its hills and mountains. But Fairbank grew Jiminy Peak into one of the state’s finest ski areas and used it as a launchpad into northern New England, where he applied the lessons of place-building, intensive snowmaking, and energy efficiency that he had perfected in the Berkshires to Cranmore and Bromley, two mountains mired in brutal never-ending competition with their larger and bottomlessly capitalized neighbors. Rather than let failures like the purchase of now-defunct Brodie ski area derail or deflate him, Fairbank pushed into new, sometimes risky and expensive ventures – like dropping the nation’s first windmill onto the top of a ski area – with the confidence that one setback did not portend another. Fifty-one years after arriving in Massachusetts as a 23-year-old who was obsessed with skiing and determined to make a living out of it, Fairbank has built something special. There’s really no other ski company quite like it, and I wanted to see how he built it and where it’s going next.South-facing Bromley gets a lot of sun. Photo courtesy of Bromley.What we talked about: Feelings about being inducted in the National Ski and Snowboard Hall of Fame; first memories of skiing; the kindness-from-a-stranger moment that changed the trajectory of Fairbank’s life; early-career days teaching on the slopes of Western New York and Wisconsin; how Frank Lloyd Wright’s Taliesin ended up influencing New England ski resort architecture half a century after Fairbank first saw it; how Fairbank ended up GM of Jiminy Peak at 23 years old and what a GM’s job required in that era; what the mountain and the Berkshires ski scene looked like when he showed up in 1969; how close Jiminy Peak came to bankruptcy in the 1970s and how he saved the ski area from oblivion; the big-time mountain that Fairbank nearly left the Berkshires to manage; the business expansion that set Jiminy on a long-term sustainable trajectory; the importance of snowmaking to Jiminy Peak’s survival and why Fairbank moved ahead of the industry to set up a permanent system; the deal he made to buy the mountain in the 1980s; the hard-to-comprehend grind of the decades-long place-making master-planned project that made Jiminy Peak the town-on-the-side-of-the-mountain/first-class ski area that it is today; if you’re gonna build a town, you’re gonna need your own sewer system; Jiminy Peak’s second existential crisis and how Fairbank moved through it; so you think it’s easy getting a wind turbine to the top of a mountain?; how that installation transformed the business; why Fairbank bought Brodie and what he found when he got there; the reason he ultimately shut the mountain down and why he included a clause in the sales contract that stipulated it could not be redeveloped as a ski area; why he doesn’t think Brodie is a viable modern ski area even if someone did want to develop it; the condition of the former ski area today; why buying Cranmore made sense and how they approached the evolution of that ski area; how Cranmore is like a 1950s gas station in downtown Buffalo; how Covid has turbocharged real-estate sales around Fairbank’s mountains; why the company took over management of Bromley; the niche Bromley has carved out that’s helped it thrive amid the giants that surround it; thoughts on the evolution of Magic; why there are no significant capital improvements in store for Bromley; why the mountain had to cancel a planned new lift and expansion; the biggest terrain shortfall at Bromley; Fairbank’s thoughts on skiing’s late megapass consolidation and his plans to stay competitive in that environment; what Fairbank said when I asked about his mountains’ pass prices in comparison to Epic and Ikon Passes; why they won’t combine the three mountains onto one pass; why the company hasn’t yet partnered with a limited-day multipass like Indy or Ikon; how Covid stacks up against previous disruptions; an interesting difference between Covid-era summer operations in three different states; the enormity of adapting to socially distanced skiing; thoughts on running the company with his son, Tyler.A trailmap from Jiminy Peak in 1969, the year Fairbank arrived.Jiminy Peak today.A note on the Brodie exchange: Re-listening to the bit where we discussed Brodie, I realized I sounded as though I was trying to be evasive when Fairbank asked me how I’d learned about the clause in the mountain’s sale that forbid its redevelopment as a ski area, and I just said, “the internet.” But really I just assumed that this stipulation was common knowledge and was surprised that he was surprised. Anyway, my source for that particular tidbit was this New England Ski History article, but I’ve seen it elsewhere.Question I wish I’d asked: Fairbank was the leader in starting the Mountains of Distinction coalition, which provides reciprocal lift ticket discounts to passholders at partner mountains, and I would have liked to have gotten his insight into how that started and what its current state is. It also would have been interesting to hear more about the Fairbank Group’s businesses outside of its ski areas, but those are my primary interest so I prioritized Jiminy Peak, Brodie, Cranmore, and Bromley. I did want to ask how, from a personal and leadership point of view, Fairbank got past the failure of Brodie to refocus on new endeavors. I also would have liked to ask if the company would consider buying another mountain. But frankly the conversation could have gone on all day – he’s accomplished so much and each one has so many dimensions that we could have eaten the Lord of the Rings trilogy before we got through it all. Why I thought that now was a good time for this interview: Because Fairbank’s inclusion in the National Ski and Snowboard Hall of Fame’s Class of 2020 is an exclamation point on a distinguished career, and underscores the gravity and immensity of his decades-long contributions to the sport. This seemed like an appropriate time to review that career and those achievements. I have also been writing for months about the Northeast’s evolving season pass landscape, and I wanted to get a better understanding of his mountains’ approach, which is vastly different from that of the Colorado-based multipasses that are proliferating throughout the region. Finally, I wanted to see how the challenges introduced by Covid stacked up against the droughts and downturns of past decades as an existential challenge to skiing’s vitality. Cruising Jiminy Peak with the wind turbine in the background. Photo courtesy of Jiminy Peak.Why you should go there: The ski hills are all slick operations, with night skiing at all but Bromley and some nasty stuff thrown in for fun. They’re not where you for bunches of really rowdy stuff (though they have some), but they’re good for families, and Cranmore and Bromley are both nice alternatives to the busier nearby megapass-affiliated mountains (Attitash and Wildcat in the case of Cranmore; Stratton, Okemo, and Mount Snow for Bromley). But what all three have in common is a sense of community and place, deliberately built and curated by Fairbank and his company over decades. The Northeast lacks slopeside development in comparison to most Western mountains, and the ability to set up shop slopeside is a big part of the ambience of a ski vacation. Vermont is particularly adept at frustrating development efforts, as Fairbank notes in our conversation. But they have persisted and, starting at Jiminy Peak and continuing to the ongoing development of Cranmore, have set a template for how you envision and build a community to anchor a ski area. All three ski areas also have extensive summer operations that are a really fun way to feel like you’re close to skiing when the snow’s all melted.Additional reading/videos:Brian was the 2017 recipient of the NSAA’s Lifetime Achievement AwardHis U.S. Ski and Snowboard Hall of Fame bioA Berkshire Eagle Q&A with Tyler Fairbank datelined March 13, 2020. This would have been a very different conversation two days later.A bit more about that wind turbine:Follow The Storm Skiing Journal on Facebook and Twitter.COVID-19 & Skiing Podcasts: Author and Industry Veteran Chris Diamond | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | NSAA CEO Kelly Pawlak | Berkshire East/Catamount Owner & Goggles for Docs founder Jon Schaefer | Shaggy’s Copper Country Skis Cofounder Jeff Thompson | Doppelmayr USA President Katharina Schmitz | Mt. Baldy GM Robby Ellingson | Alterra CEO Rusty Gregory | NSAA Director of Risk & Regulatory Affairs Dave ByrdThe Storm Skiing Podcasts: Killington & Pico GM Mike Solimano | Plattekill owners Danielle and Laszlo Vajtay | New England Lost Ski Areas Project Founder Jeremy Davis | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | Lift Blog Founder Peter Landsman | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Burke Mountain GM Kevin Mack | Liftopia CEO Evan Reece | Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer | Vermont Ski + Ride and Vermont Sports Co-Publisher & Editor Lisa Lynn | Sugarbush President & COO Win Smith | Loon President & GM Jay Scambio | Sunday River President & GM Dana Bullen | Big Snow & Mountain Creek VP of Sales & Marketing Hugh Reynolds | Mad River Glen GM Matt Lillard | Indy Pass Founder Doug Fish | National Brotherhood of Skiers President Henri Rivers | Winter 4 Kids & National Winter Activity Center President & CEO Schone Malliet | Vail Veterans Program President & Founder Cheryl Jensen | Mountain Gazette Owner & Editor Mike Rogge | Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows President & CMO Ron Cohen | Aspiring Olympian Benjamin Alexander | Sugarloaf GM Karl Strand – Parts One & Two | Cannon GM John DeVivo Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

Podcast #16: Indy Pass Founder and President Doug Fish

Play Episode Listen Later May 31, 2020 75:11

The Storm Skiing Podcast #16 | Download this episode on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Stitcher,TuneIn, and Pocket Casts | Read the full overview at skiing.substack.com.Who: Doug Fish, Indy Pass Founder and President, Snowvana Founder and Producer, Chair of Fish MarketingWhy I interviewed him: Because the Indy Pass, with its yeah-we’re-doing-this-go-ahead-and-stop-us attitude, is a novel and necessary entry into a lift-served ski landscape increasingly accessed and defined by multi-mountain passes. As this world consolidates and skiers can more easily access sprawling collections of the largest and most developed ski areas on the continent with one relatively inexpensive pass, the independent mountains have a choice to make. Alone or together. Some, like Mad River Glen or Wolf Creek, have strong enough brands and loyal enough communities to fight on from their own islands. Others risk being lost. The Indy Pass is a vehicle these smaller-but-still-fight-worthy mountains can ride, a national brand with an inexpensive entry point and a premise rooted in the late appeal of all things handmade and local. For skiers, the pass delivers a season’s worth of skiing for less than the cost of a peak day ticket at a big Western mountain and cracks open some well-rounded but often overlooked ski areas for exploration. It’s also a growing brand with an evolving story that I’ve been watching from launch, and I wanted to talk to the guy who was making it all happen.Beaver Mountain, Utah. Photo courtesy of Indy Pass.What we talked about: How the Indy Pass concept was born on a chairlift in Red Lodge, Montana; the long process of transforming the idea into an actual product you can buy; making skiing affordable in the era of $200 day tickets; the advantage of rolling scattered and little-known indies under one national marketing umbrella; who signed first and how that got the Indy Pass snowball rolling down the mountain; the logic behind the $199 price and two-day access at each mountain; what rack rate is and why that isn’t the real price of skiing; Indy is the sampler pack of skiing; what Pats Peak was worried about when they signed onto the pass; why reciprocal passholder programs like the Powder Alliance and the Freedom Pass are bad long-term deals for ski areas and why the Indy Pass offers a better approach; the thrill of selling the first few passes; which state bought 30 percent of all Indy Passes; how you can get a free Indy Pass for life and why Doug thinks no one will ever do it; the largest number of days anyone redeemed on their Indy Pass last season; how the pass calculates payout for ski areas with vastly different day ticket prices; why the Indy Pass initially didn’t offer child passes and the logic behind the new $99 kids pass; why the season pass add-on is $30 cheaper than it was last season; why some mountains are still deciding whether they’ll institute Indy Pass blackouts for next season, which would only be accessible with the new Indy+ Pass; the thinking behind the simple pass assurance program; the number one factor keeping potential new partners from committing to the Indy Pass for the 2020-21 season; how huge the Cannon signing is for the pass’ momentum and growth in the Northeast; why Indy Pass became the must-have multimountain pass in the Midwest with its new signings in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan; Tamarack and the unsung glory of Idaho skiing; a bit about snow-blitzed new partner, Sasquatch, British Columbia; where remote and little-known China Peak, California fits into the pass’ long-term vision; potential new partners in the Midwest; why Mount Bohemia, the Midwest’s best pure skier’s ski area, will never join the Indy Pass; opportunities to grow still in the Northeast; why the pass hasn’t been able to crack the Colorado or Tahoe markets; the obstacles to adding Oregon’s largest ski areas to the pass; the potential for growth in yeah-there’s-damn-good-skiing-there Arizona and New Mexico; how many ski areas Doug expects to be on the pass by the time the 2020-21 season starts; the max number of ski areas the pass could eventually host.Question I wish I’d asked: I had some questions prepared about Doug’s initial adventures in the Midwest and Northeast – two regions he was unfamiliar with from a skiing point of view prior to launching the Indy Pass. I always like hearing people’s first impressions of things I know really well. I also wish I’d had time to go a bit into Indy Pass’ Southeast partners in North Carolina, Virginia, etc., as I think that’s a really interesting ski region that I don’t know a great deal about. I also would have liked to have explored the fallout from the Covid shutdown, the pass’ oddball blackout day structure, possible future pass tiers, and why there’s no physical pass. The pod is already pretty long though. Next time.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interview: Indy Pass just dropped its 2020-21 product suite, adding seven new mountains while sticking with its $199 price tag for two days at each partner ski area. Indy introduced a $99 kids pass and a $129 season pass add-on for passholders at any partner mountain, and outlined one of the simplest pass assurance programs in skiing, pegging 2021-22 pass credits not to mountain closures or injuries or volcanic eruptions but the number of days used. I figured this was a good time to tell the Indy Pass’ backstory and understand how this thing materialized out of thin air in a ski world already dominated by two Colorado-based megapasses. I also wanted to advocate for a few mountains that I’d really like to see on the pass, both to Doug as the guy in charge, and to the ski areas themselves, many of whom are considering joining the pass but have not yet committed. Why you should pick up the Indy Pass: Doug’s take is that this pass serves infrequent skiers who feel priced out of Mt. Bigmore but are willing to pay a modest sum for access to quality mountains. This is no doubt true. I think this pass serves another group just as well, however. I believe the Indy Pass acts as an excellent complement to an Epic or Ikon Pass, a parachute into local radsters like Magic or Berkshire East that are solid weekend alternatives to the bowling-for-humans ice slaloms of Stratton or Mount Snow. These are the places that you think you’re too good for because they’re slightly smaller, they don’t have lie-flat seats on their chairlifts, and they don’t serve organic sesame seed celery scones in their cafeteria. But you’re wrong. These are terrific mountains, and they are all worth a visit. If you’re in the Upper Midwest, the Northeast, or the Pacific Northwest, this pass is an absolute must-buy, regardless of which other passes you’ve picked up.Additional reading/videos: I did a complete breakdown of Indy Pass’ 2020-21 pass suite recently.Recorded on: May 27, 2020The Storm Skiing Podcast is on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, TuneIn, and Pocket Casts. The Storm Skiing Journal publishes podcasts and other editorial content throughout the ski season. To receive new posts as soon as they are published, sign up for The Storm Skiing Journal Newsletter at skiing.substack.com. Follow The Storm Skiing Journal on Facebook and Twitter.COVID-19 & Skiing Podcasts: Author and Industry Veteran Chris Diamond | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | NSAA CEO Kelly Pawlak | Berkshire East/Catamount Owner & Goggles for Docs founder Jon Schaefer | Shaggy’s Copper Country Skis Cofounder Jeff Thompson | Doppelmayr USA President Katharina Schmitz | Mt. Baldy GM Robby Ellingson | Alterra CEO Rusty GregoryThe Storm Skiing Podcasts: Killington & Pico GM Mike Solimano | Plattekill owners Danielle and Laszlo Vajtay | New England Lost Ski Areas Project Founder Jeremy Davis | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | Lift Blog Founder Peter Landsman | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Burke Mountain GM Kevin Mack | Liftopia CEO Evan Reece | Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer | Vermont Ski + Ride and Vermont Sports Co-Publisher & Editor Lisa Lynn | Sugarbush President & COO Win Smith | Loon President & GM Jay Scambio | Sunday River President & GM Dana Bullen | Big Snow & Mountain Creek VP of Sales & Marketing Hugh Reynolds | Mad River Glen GM Matt Lillard Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

COVID-19 & Skiing Podcast #3: Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway – “We Exist in a Changed World”

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 3, 2020 44:59

Download this episode on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Stitcher,TuneIn, and Pocket Casts | Read the full overview at skiing.substack.com.What this is: This is the third in a series of short conversations exploring the fallout to the ski industry from the COVID-19-forced closure of nearly every ski area on the continent in March 2020. You can listen to the first two – with author Chris Diamond and Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher – but it’s not like Star Wars or something where you have to see them in a certain order or they won’t make sense, so jump right in here.Who: Geoff Hatheway, President of Magic Mountain, VermontMagic’s workhorse Heron-Poma Red Chair has been hauling skiers up Glebe Mountain for nearly 50 years.Why I interviewed him: Because Magic, resolutely perched between Mount Snow and Stratton in Southern Vermont, is as unlikely as it is necessary in this multipass futureworld we all live in. That particular geography puts the place in a defensive posture during the best of times, and in some weird way perhaps makes it uniquely adapted to confront an unforeseen crisis such as the COVID-19 shutdown. Geoff’s a thoughtful guy who helped rescue the mountain from insolvency a few years back, and I wanted to see how he had approached the inevitable shutdown, what he’s been doing to stabilize operations, and how he was planning for Magic’s future in a world that just got turned upside-down.Magic on a misty day.What we talked about: Life in Vermont during the COVID-19 shutdown; the eeriness of an empty Magic covered in snow; how the mountain’s employees reacted to and are managing the shutdown; inside Magic’s decision to close and why it was inevitable; what finally made them call it a season; what happened once Vail and Alterra closed their nearby mountains; how Magic’s hardcore community responded to the early shutdown; how the Congressional relief package will help the mountain bridge the shutdown but it’s gonna be a pain in the rear to tap everything they’re entitled to; what Geoff would like to see in future relief bills; why spring season pass sales are so vital to summer operations; the Black Chair will rise again; why Magic is going to drop season pass prices and push its early-bird pass deadlines by two months; I think the Freedom Pass is dead; you’ll be able to add an Indy Pass onto your Magic season pass for a very low price; Magic season passholders have not gone Angry Ski Bro and demanded refunds for the truncated season; the mountain’s current uphill travel policy; why unity is the best way through this mess for the country as a whole; now is the time to make those phone calls; the importance of the Friends of Magic Facebook groupMagic in February. The towers for the unfinished Black Chair rise up the mountain in the distance.The kid babbling in the background: Is mine. He’s now audio-bombed three out of three COVID-19 and skiing podcasts, and I imagine as long as we’re all holed up in the same apartment together 24 hours a day, he will continue to do so.Recorded on: April 2, 2020The Storm Skiing Podcast is on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, TuneIn, and Pocket Casts. The Storm Skiing Journal publishes podcasts and other editorial content throughout the ski season. To receive new posts as soon as they are published, sign up for The Storm Skiing Journal Newsletter at skiing.substack.com. Follow The Storm Skiing Journal on Facebook and Twitter.COVID-19 and Skiing Podcasts: Author and Industry Veteran Chris Diamond | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher |The Storm Skiing Podcasts: Killington & Pico GM Mike Solimano | Plattekill owners Danielle and Laszlo Vajtay | New England Lost Ski Areas Project Founder Jeremy Davis | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | Lift Blog Founder Peter Landsman | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Burke Mountain GM Kevin Mack | Liftopia CEO Evan Reece | Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer| Vermont Ski + Ride and Vermont Sports Co-Publisher & Editor Lisa Lynn| Sugarbush President & COO Win Smith| Loon President & GM Jay Scambio| Sunday River President & GM Dana Bullen| Big Snow & Mountain Creek VP of Sales & Marketing Hugh Reynolds | Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

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COVID-19 & Skiing Podcast #1: Author and Industry Veteran Chris Diamond - Optimism for the Future

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 27, 2020 33:19

Download this episode on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Stitcher,TuneIn, and Pocket Casts | Read the full overview at skiing.substack.com.What this is: This is the first in a series of conversations exploring the ski industry fallout from the COVID-19-forced closure of nearly every ski area on the continent in March 2020. This is not a typical Storm Skiing Podcast, and the format, tone, and focus is intentionally different from those lengthier shows. My goal is to help the skiing community understand why the shutdown was necessary and what it means to our sport in the short and long term.Who: Chris Diamond, author of Ski Inc. and Ski Inc. 2020, former president of Mount Snow, former head of Steamboat, past director and chairman of Colorado Ski Country USA and the National Ski Areas Association, member of the Colorado Ski Hall of FameWhy I interviewed him: Diamond’s two books, Ski Inc. and Ski Inc. 2020, positioned him as one of the top experts on the modern North American skiing industry. When examining the fallout from chopping a month of more off the end of the ski season, I think it’s valuable to get a perspective that examines the industry as a whole and does so through a long-term lens. No one was better positioned to do that than Diamond, and he was fortunately available for a conversation. What we talked about: The atmosphere in Steamboat since the COVID-19 shutdown; how locals are adapting; the new uphill skinning restrictions in Colorado; current industry sentiment; how much it hurts a ski area financially to lose half of March; how much April matters; how fortunate we were that the pandemic didn’t hit a month or two earlier; why this is different from having to close early in a crummy snow year; why season pass sales may be OK; how the industry may respond to keep pass sales at least flat in a tough economic environment; how the COVID shutdown compares to other existential threats to skiing like climate change and attracting more diverse skiers; why this is the most severe shock that the modern ski industry has ever faced; what might happen if next season is cancelled; why there’s still reason for optimismWhat I got wrong: I identified Arapahoe Basin Chief Operating Officer Alan Henceroth as Arapahoe Basin “CMO” Alan “Henceforth.” I regret the error. I also stated that economic data revealed “3 million” new unemployment claims in the United States this week, smashing the previous record of “655,000” in 1982. The correct numbers are 3.3 million new claims this week, beating 1982’s record of 695,000.Why it sounds like I recorded this on a playground: Because I, like everyone else fortunate enough to have a job that enables them to work remotely, have ported my office into my home at the same moment all children have been untethered from school. My 11-year-old has remote classes to preoccupy her, but the 3-year-old does not, and so he is likely joining the podcast as a background singer for the foreseeable future.Recorded on: March 26, 2020The Storm Skiing Podcast is on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, TuneIn, and Pocket Casts. The Storm Skiing Journal publishes podcasts and other editorial content throughout the ski season. To receive new posts as soon as they are published, sign up for The Storm Skiing Journal Newsletter at skiing.substack.com. Follow The Storm Skiing Journal on Facebook and Twitter.Check out The Storm Skiing Podcast: Killington & Pico GM Mike Solimano | Plattekill ownersDanielle and Laszlo Vajtay | New England Lost Ski Areas Project Founder Jeremy Davis | Magic Mountain President Geoff Hatheway | Lift Blog Founder Peter Landsman | Boyne Resorts CEO Stephen Kircher | Burke Mountain GM Kevin Mack | Liftopia CEO Evan Reece | Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer| Vermont Ski + Ride and Vermont Sports Co-Publisher & Editor Lisa Lynn| Sugarbush President & COO Win Smith| Loon President & GM Jay Scambio| Sunday River President & GM Dana Bullen| Big Snow & Mountain Creek VP of Sales & Marketing Hugh Reynolds Get on the email list at www.stormskiing.com

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Minus Zero 2018 Review

Rageaholics EDM Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later May 7, 2018 99:03

Mount Snow did an incredible job at hosting this year's Minus Zero! We hope you guys had as good of a time as we did! Check out the show notes at Tracklist: Liquid Stranger - Spaceboss Feat. Space Jesus (Original Mix) DUDEnGUY x JakK'D - Good Times Marvel Years & Maddy O'Neal - Viral Love ft. Chris Karns & Michelle Sarah --------------------------------------------------------------------- GG Magree - One By One Jai Wolf - Indian Summer -------------------------------------------------------------------- Claude Vonstroke & EPROM - Grenade (Original Mix) Walker & Royce - Wakey Wakey (Original Mix) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Tipper - Cloaked Bleep Bloop - Slippin Shotgun Styles - Yoi Got What I Need YOOKiE - Subs (James Meyers & AWAL Remix) REZZ - Green Gusher Hayden James - Something About You (ODESZA Remix)

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Minus Zero 2018 Preview

Rageaholics EDM Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 4, 2018 115:49

This year Minus Zero heads to Mount Snow, Vermont to bring one of the most diverse line ups we've seen which will crush your ears with bass, funk, tech house and everything in between! There truly is something for everyone Grab your tickets at Show notes: https://www.rageaholics.co/single-post/2018/04/04/Minus-Zero-2018-Preview Tracklist: Bleep Bloop - All I Wanna Do Marvel Years - Bigger Than We Feel (ft. JuBee) Tipper - Its like ODESZA - La Ciudad Pierce Fulton - Yesterday Jai Wolf - Starlight (feat. Mr Gabriel) REZZ & 13 - DRUGS! JAUZ X GG MAGREE - GHOST Shotgun Styles - Genuine DUDEnGUY - The Night Is Dark Lucid Noise - Up Rise (Original Mix) mp3 Tove Lo - Talkin Body (Sir Matty V Remix) Gryffin & Illenium - Feel Good (Fifth Year Remix) Zeds Dead - Adrenaline Liquid Stranger - Hotbox (Original Mix) YOOKiE - Project 9 Zeds Dead - Frontlines (feat. GG Magree)

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Podcast #104 – Ski Utah!

High Falutin Ski Bums

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2017 93:09

The ski season is underway! One of our favorite places last season was Snowbird, in beautiful Utah. I was lucky enough to go to the Ski Utah event in NYC a few weeks back where I met Paul Marshall, Director of Communications at Ski Utah. After that, we set up an interview with him and was able to get some more information about what Ski Utah does and what they have going on for the upcoming season. Hope you enjoy it!

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41 - Chris Diamond: Four Decades of Ski Biz in One New Book

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 19, 2017 32:19

Since entering the ski business in 1972 at Killington, Chris Diamond led Mount Snow and Steamboat through multiple ownership changes and countless upgrades. Upon retiring in 2015, Diamond set out to document his decades in skiing and has recently released a new book entitled "Ski Inc. My journey through four decades in the ski resort business, from the founding entrepreneurs to mega companies." In episode 41 AK and Chris delve into some anecdotes from the book, his years working with and for Les Otten and what he thinks about the future of skiing. You can purchase the book here: https://skidiamondconsulting.com Season 3 of Wintry Mix is supported by www.Snowbird.com, www.Worldcupsupply.com and www.Liftopia.com. Subscribe to Wintry Mix on iTunes. Follow the show on facebook, twitter and IG.

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32 - Winter Preview: Killington, Sunday River, Vail and Mount Snow Q&A

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2016 17:46

In the final episode of Season 2, Alex catches up with reps from resorts in Vermont, Maine and Colorado to get a glimpse of winter operations as October and November approach. There's also a bit of a tease as to what is to come in Season 3, which will see a bit of tweak in the format of the podcast as it enters the second year. Expect some more timely storm/weekend content as well as the occasional long form interviews. Does your brand want to partner in season 3? Hit me up asap. Season 2 of Wintry Mix is made possible by www.Inntopia.com. Additional support from www.snowbird.com, www.skivermont.com, www.peakresorts.com and www.llbean.com. Photo by http://www.shelleybcreative.com

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Podcast #54 – Ski Anywhere!

High Falutin Ski Bums

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2016 70:32

The bums are back and with summer ramping up quickly, we take a look at options if you want to ski even when the mercury starts getting into the triple digits.

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22 - The Meltdown: Listener's Guide to Wintry Mix Season 1

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 28, 2016 21:47

So that was fun. Enjoy some of the highlights from season 1 and find the episodes that you'd be most interested in. Let us know what topics or guests you think would be fun in Season 2 via twitter.com/wintrymixcast, instagram.com/wintrymixcast or fb.com/wintrymixcast. We're also working on a new website at www.wintrymixcast.com. It's there now as we work on it. Season 2 starts in June. Thanks to our season 1 sponsors: Mount Snow, Snocountry, Snowbird, Propeller Media Works and Ski Vermont.

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5 - Glaciers and Gear: Jen Gurecki of Coalition Snow