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EP274 - Warby Parker and AllBirds IPOs  Warby Parker and AllBirds filed their S-1 registrations with the SEC in preparation of making an initial public offering. In this episode we deep dive into all the information revealed in the fillings. Surprising Learnings From Warby Parker And AllBirds IPO Filings (forbes.com) Episode 274 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Wednesday September 1st, 2021. http://jasonandscot.com Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, Chief Commerce Strategy Officer at Publicis, and Scot Wingo, CEO of GetSpiffy and Co-Founder of ChannelAdvisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing. Transcript Jason: [0:24] Welcome to the Jason and Scot show this is episode 274 being recorded on Wednesday September first 2021 I'm your host Jason retailgeek Goldberg and as usual I'm here with your co-host Scott Wingo. Scot: [0:40] Hey Jason and welcome back Jason and Scot show listeners Jason we have a lot of favorite things on this podcast but you know it's even cooler than some fresh Amazon quarterly results hot new Gadget. Even some exciting Star Wars news. Jason: [0:55] No what's God. Scot: [0:57] A fresh delicious hot out of the oven S1 and you know it's better than S1. Jason: [1:02] I'm guessing to S ones. Scot: [1:04] You are right that is right we have we're very excited this week because not only do we have one s one but we have two s ones so I don't know if that's an S 1 squared or S2 or how we talked about that I guess 2's ones, and what's really exciting is one of our favorite topics on the show is digitally native vertical brands also called dnv B's and we have two of them that filed within a week of each other so that's pretty exciting so the two are Warby Parker and allbirds and before we do a deep dive into those S ones and highlight some of the things that we found that were interesting for listeners I wanted to give everyone just kind of a reminder of a great way to read an s-1, so an s-1 is. [1:52] Haven't haven't done a gone public before it's kind of like a sandwich so you have three parts you have this kind of first part where there's all this introductory stuff and you're kind of like CIA in that part and then you get into the delicious sandwich part of the the meat and potatoes of this one which is commonly called management discussion and Analysis they called em DNA and that's the best part because really management actually writes that now they have a lot of guidance from lawyers and investment bankers and PR firm in all this Jazz but it's really most of the times it is the founders you know putting pen to paper and describing the business and their words then after that you have the lawyers kick in and then you have a pretty good chunk of risk factors and then the accountants kick in and you've got your your your Gap financials and all that stuff and all that's interesting but if you're going to I always start a nest one from the middle out so I like to read that mdna first because it's the best way to hear about the company from the founders. [2:54] Now Warren Buffett and his Charlie Munger they always kind of famously start at the back of this one and they like to start at the audited financials and that's kind of how they look at a business and that's important but especially for these I think it's pretty interesting because you know it tells us why the founders do this dnv be thing how's it going how do they think about their business what are the key metrics they're looking at inside of there and I think that's particularly relevant for listeners of this show because you can learn a lot you know these businesses may be there ahead of you or behind you and your scale but it I always learned a ton about. [3:34] You know what other operators are doing and thinking about their business and you pick up a lot of interesting new tidbits there may be things you like and don't like that you can add to your repertoire. Jason how do you how do you peel into a delicious yummy new S1. Jason: [3:49] Yeah well I mostly take your advice that I guess to two alternative views is just skip the s-1 entirely and wait for the retail Roadshow and so you can kind of watch a movie instead of have to do all this math and read. Scot: [4:02] Yeah I like the retail Roadshow too but sadly it comes weeks after this one so this one is like an appetizer before you get to the movie. Jason: [4:10] Yeah and II may be uniquely odd in this regard but I do find it amusing and humorous to read the risk factors. I know they have nothing to do with the business and weren't written by anyone that has anything to do with the business but I feel like. They're increasingly more creative in the voluminous wig west of apocalypses that could. Could strike the Earth and I want to say like of the hundred seventy one page Warby Parker S1 about a hundred pages of it is the risk factors. Scot: [4:42] Yeah, yeah and I mean it is fun to read but you're taking the right approach at it what drives me crazy is actually went through and looked at a bunch of the headlines for both these companies and I would say about 1/3 to 25 percent of the. Press that covers you things you know to be and I don't know if this is just lack of understanding or clickbait or some combination of those things but they always pull out the risk factors so you'll see you know allbirds is worried about Nike as a competitor and you know and then you're like what did they read about that and they've just pulled out a the competitor list of the risk factors well the lawyers are saying you know if anyone has ever sold a shoe put them in the risk factors you know it's not like it's not like the founders in their own words are staying up late at night worried about Nike but maybe they are but. Most of that stuff is not the founders words it's lawyers kind of saying you know here's a checklist list everyone that you've ever think you thought you've competed with now that's their guidance. Jason: [5:42] Yeah I mean the list of competitors isn't remotely shocking it's more of the zombie apocalypse that makes me chuckle. Scot: [5:48] Yeah and now there's all these, yes every time new legislation comes out you have to add a risk factors know it's like you know GDP our cyber security we use cloud computing that could go down we it's kind of like you have to think of everything that's ever happened and you want to cover it so that if you do get sued you can say well it was a risk factor you should have known we warned you. Cool so we flipped a coin and you are going to kick us off with a deep dive into or be. Jason: [6:21] Yeah yeah so we'll jump right into it and we'll start with some of the financial metrics per your point is pretty interesting because these are. Private companies they don't necessarily disclose a lot of this and so you kind of go from like a pretty vague view of these companies to a pretty detailed View and if you're some other DMV be that still private like there's great benchmarking data in here so Warby Parker. [6:48] 20/20 in this is all complicated because of course 2020 was an anomalous year 2020 revenue for Warby Parker was just under 400 million in sales so 393 million and kind of to give you a progression they were 272 million in 2018 then they jumped up, 370 million in 2019 and then you know a much smaller jump up to three hundred and ninety-three million in 2020. The more eye-popping number is they have six months of data from 20 21 and they're already at 270 million in 2021 so if you kind of compare first six months of this year to first six months of last year. Last year there were 176 million this year there are 270 so they're definitely seeing a nice clip of growth. And obviously as you grow bigger you would hope that that scale would help you with profitability when you're you know small and still you know in growth mode it's sometimes hard to make a profit, and in this case. It doesn't appear like they've achieved that escape velocity where they're starting to turn a profit yet like the gross margins are. [8:00] Are in a reasonable ballpark they're pretty consistent in the kind of 658 to 60% range and so they are generating. Net positive ebit has but they basically have had a net loss every year except 2019 when they broke even. So what's a little worrisome about that is. [8:26] You know you like if you look at 2018 you said hey they sold 270 million and they lost 22 million on it in 2019 they sold 370 million and they broke even. Like that's looking like a pretty good Trend that scale starting to help them with their profitability but then in 2020 where they had a lot of extra costs from covid and as we'll talk about in a bit they're somewhat store. They were even bigger 393 and they had their biggest loss ever 55 million, and they're doing better this year but they're not on a path to profitability this year either so they're the on the 270 million they've sold this year they've lost 7.3 million. Um before I jump further does any of that financial news sort of surprise you at all Scott or does that. Scot: [9:17] Now I have a different opinion but well we're going to do a little kind of analysis again. Jason: [9:22] I like it cliffhanger. Scot: [9:23] Yeah yeah. Jason: [9:24] So one of the interesting things well a all these digital native Brands you start off by like generating some buzz and selling some stuff to people that are already friendly to you and it's super easy sales and and cost to get those sales is very low but then pretty quickly all these companies go into digital advertising mode and they buy ads on Google and buy ads on. [9:47] To grow quickly and the first ads they buy a relatively cheap because, that they can you know Target a very specific audience and there aren't a lot of other people buying that exact same audience so the, the cost per ad is low and so the the customer acquisition cost can be pretty reasonable but as you get bigger. [10:06] You have to buy a bigger chunk of audience from Facebook and more people are competing for that same audience and it's a reverse auction so you have to pay the most to get the ad and so growing purely on this digital ad business. Pretty challenging particularly when Google and Facebook are so good at optimizing the the the maximum cost per ad and so. For almost every DMV be we've ever talked about they they have trouble scaling and they almost always Implement some new tactics later in their evolution to kind of scale beyond the digital ad phase and so in war Beast Partners case they were one of the first retailers to say, the MVPs to say hey we need to open a bunch of stores and stores can be really profitable billboard to help dramatically improve our customer acquisition costs so by 2018 they already had 88 stores, and right now they have a hundred and twenty-six or a hundred forty five stores so so they have a reasonable Fleet of stores that has grown pretty pretty quickly. Obviously there's a lot of extra costs for running those stores and obviously those stores didn't do particularly well in covid. [11:21] So some of the interesting things about the stores is that like in 2018 sixty percent of the revenue came from e-commerce forty percent of the revenue came from retail about the same in 2019 but as they jumped up there store counts and 2020 that. So in 2020 sixty percent of the revenue came from these retail stores 40 percent came from ecom's so the store is really are becoming the primary acquisition Channel. It's super interesting to look at the. [11:54] The unit economics of a customer how expensive it is to acquire a customer how much money they make on each customer has sticky each customer is and different s ones you know give, different granularity in case of Ori Parker they reported a customer acquisition cost so they said that in 2018 they spent $26 per customer to acquire customers. In 2019 they said they spent $27 to acquire customers and in 2020 and the pandemic influenced year they had to spend more they spent $40 per customer to acquire customers now put a big Asterix on that there's some controversy will get to in a minute but. If you take those numbers on face value those are pretty darn good customer acquisition cost for this kind of business other. [12:42] Kind of did you a native vertical brands that have have done it s one have disclosed some kind of eye-watering Lee expensive customer acquisition costs and so famously like Blue Apron was paying $400 a customer to acquire customers so so even $40 a customer it's pretty reasonable to kind of put that in perspective in 2020 they were getting about 218 dollars in sales per customer which is a little over two orders, um so the the the unit economics are potentially viable. Except for that sgna line and all the expensive advertising that they're having to do which is ultimately driving that those those net losses. So those were kind of my big. [13:31] Takeaways and I alluded to a controversy friend of the show and former guests Dan McCarthy who's a assistant professor Emery and one of the true gurus and in clv um he looked at this as one and at first he was like wow that's a really good customer acquisition cost they should be commended and then he like started reading the fine print and they've used a novel definition of customer acquisition costs they've divided all of their expenses by all of their customers and. About sixty percent of their customers are returning customers so in theory. You shouldn't be dividing all of your digital marketing by your total number of active customers you should be dividing it by the new active customers and that's kind of the traditional definition that Dan and most of the rest of the world use we don't know what that number is for Warby but it's probably a lot higher than the. Forty dollars that would be disclosed based on this kind of unique definition of customer acquisition costs. Scot: [14:39] They did they kind of elaborate on that or. Jason: [14:44] No they didn't at all. Scot: [14:45] And easier he just kind of picked it apart and like there was no. Jason: [14:48] Yeah like they like there's not enough data in the s-1 to try to estimate a. Revised customer acquisition cost now what Dan has done in the past is he's gone a hold of credit card panel data. And kind of backed into like customer acquisition cost by looking at the the. The spend from you know the from customers I haven't you know I don't know that he's done that analysis yet for these guys are the even has access to the data to try but. Yeah so at the moment we don't know what their khakis I have to be honest you like even if. You you kind of like double it because you say like oh they should have only been chart you know counting all these costs against the 40% new customers and not against the hundred percent active customers. You're still at like 80 dollars which is expensive you you can't make money spending $80 for a customer that you only sell $180 to. It's still better than a lot of these other companies that we've looked at. Scot: [15:58] The worse is Casper were the cactus a good couple hundred dollars higher than the mattress. Jason: [16:04] Yeah and I would say. Like these guys have about the most mature store model of any of these companies like Casper's up there too but the next company will talk about allbirds has a lot less stores so, you know if the opening your own stores is the way to lower kak then you would expect to see it in Warby Parker's S1. And my my takeaway from this is. Either you have to get to a much bigger and you're going to say something in a minute that potentially disagrees but either where we Partners hypothesis is you have to get to a much bigger number to get profitable. And so maybe you know instead of one or million run rate I need a billion dollar run rate. Or you need an alternative customer acquisition strategy beyond your own stores and digital ads which are the two tools warble uses and I would also argue where B is. About as good as it gets at sort of organic demand generation and they do they do great like social they do gritty like they do all the other guerrilla marketing tactics so like. [17:15] Um I would you know if they're not profitable on 390 million with their type of product it seems hard to imagine that someone else with the same type of product. Is going to do much better because they seem like a externally they seem like a darn good execute. Scot: [17:37] Yeah isn't in the die where category is dominated by the luxacore Oslo Exotica and they own like everything right so they do they have you know they have a licensed almost every frame like. Jason: [17:50] Yeah almost every designer brand you've ever heard of is a is actually like license to Exotica. Scot: [17:58] Yeah then they own the. Jason: [18:00] And they own a bunch of the chains of retail stores. But they also do wholesale so Exotica like both sell all those license frames to the third parties. And they sell through their own stores, and they sell at a way higher price point than Warby Parker so they have way more margin like you know part of the premise of Warby Parker is the eyewear should be affordable so their average per glasses is $95 whereas. Like that the aov firm exotic is going to be much higher. Scot: [18:33] Yeah I do I'm not a customer but I knew I do know people that are and they do tend to buy more I've heard him say is anecdotal but I've heard him say especially women they'll say you know the prices are low enough I can buy a two or three different pairs that kind of they almost become accessories at that just kind of interesting. Jason: [18:48] So that's what I was hoping to see right like you go man I've been part of a frame cost $500 I can't own that many frames but if they cost a hundred dollars I might have different ones for different outfits right or. Right and so yeah like. Could their average order value be much higher but on average they're only selling 2.14 pair of frames per customer. So they're like again frame is $95 their average revenue per orders $184. Um so they're not necessarily like seeing a huge kit I'm sure their customers like you describe but they're not there are apparently are not enough of those customers that that's. [19:28] Change dramatically changing the economics also where we park our his kind of expanded to be a vision care company rather than just eyeglasses so they launched contacts they have optometrist services in all the stores and you might go oh wow I wonder how those things are contributing and at the moment / this one they're not, like the the all the non glasses products cumulatively are about one percent of Revenue and all the Professional Services are one percent of Revenue so these the the eyeglasses are 98% of their business now maybe that means there's a lot more growth there. [20:05] But like my so my overall take away. These numbers did not surprise me in terms of Revenue it was about exactly where I would have expected I wasn't sure they would be profitable by now it wouldn't have surprised me if they were so it's a little concerning to me. That they're that they're not. Again if a ton of this loss in 2020 is because of the pandemic and they really did break even on 370 and if they find a way to end up profitable in 2021. Um I'm their biggest Revenue year ever then you know that that probably looks pretty good but I can tell you a ton of people were shocked by these numbers a ton of people thought Warby Parker was much bigger a lot of people were speculating that they were near or over a billion dollars in annual sales which I did not view is very likely and so I think this is kind of a. [21:01] Glass of cold water in the face of a lot of the DMV be Fanboys and d2c Fanboys that like these guys are, are basically the poster child for that whole segment and they're better than most of the other ones and you know even they do not have. Home run financials and so you know frankly like this this bodes poorly for the financials of a lot of other like apparel DMV bees that we haven't seen yet. Scot: [21:33] Well I guess my seemingly controversial take is when. You know when you talk to these investment bankers there's all of this data that indicates that you should really focus on growth and not profitability if you're if you're if you're in a category like this which you know the pitch is there's this new way to build a brand it's direct-to-consumer it's digitally native yeah we're having some stores so by focusing on ibadah you're essentially saying we were making profit and we, need this we don't have anything to spend it in essentially because it's just going to kind of move over to your balance sheet especially when do an IPO you're in a load of the balance sheet with presumably at least a hundred million maybe more so. When you when you look at the data especially at this scale it's much better to lose money or to not get profitable for years because. You want to pump all that into growth so every dollar you can drive into growth gets a much bigger multiple than a dollar that goes to the bottom line. [22:42] So yeah so that's that's why and then the other challenges once you're profitable. It's kind of hard to undo it the classic example is Amazon in our retail world you know how many times have you and I heard retailers complained that Amazon is a profitable this is when they weren't profitable today they are only say they're not profitable, eventually Amazon got to the point where they just couldn't not be profitable so but you know for a good kind of like, I don't know 20-year run their they weren't profitable so they were the extreme example of this and it gave them much more leverage over like a Walmart who had been printing ibadah never got used to it and got valued off eBay doc then you can't go in and say, there's a new disruptor and hey everyone we're going to we're going to stop being ibadah positive and growing even on we're going to focus on the top line to you know our spend. 500 billion on some fulfillment centers so it yeah I think it's appropriate and I'm sure you know the risk factors that's going to be probably one of the first ones is we. I don't plan to make money and we may never make money so yeah so I think it's actually. I would almost expecting to be losing more you know if I look at kind of 21 so a lot of these. [24:04] S ones they do a six-month view because they don't want to update it every quarter its kind of pain wdesk one while you're in process so they'll do it like a six-month you and I believe their six-month view was 270 million Revenue so that put them in a 540 anyone's is that what it was the okay. Yeah and then loss is 20 that's even a lost that loss of seven so losing 14 on that that's. Jason: [24:31] The well the even has our positive by the way the it's only the net loss that like so like they have they made 20 20 million ibadah on 270 million in sales in the first six months of this year so that's. Scot: [24:43] That must be the way you're some accounting the other thing that's really frustrating is a. Jason: [24:48] They have all sgna below that you badal line which is weird to me at least I don't like. Scot: [24:54] Yeah that is weird. Jason: [24:56] That's that's why you got from this yeah that's why you got get from this positive ebitda to this negative net loss. Scot: [25:06] Yeah this is one of the ways Amazon lost money for so long is they would capitalize the leases on now it's become an SEC rule I think this gets kind of the edge of my accounting knowledge. Jason: [25:16] Yeah and they didn't there was not like detailed disclosure about the real estate so I that is an interesting question how they finance these stores and do they own them and all that stuff but. Scot: [25:25] So I would almost say. As in a potential investor I'd rather get to a billion dollars faster and have a negative ebitda a light you know at a 500 million they had like a hundred million ebitda law side. I actually kind of think that's okay especially if they could grow faster. Jason: [25:44] Yeah and so I'll just say I generally agree with you and I certainly get the argument about profitability the the bigger concern for me is there an 11 year old company that's executed about as well as you can execute done all the things that the talking headset are smart to do and they only got two with a super compelling value proposition and very high MPS scores and they still only got to 390 million so I like my biggest cautionary take away from this whole thing is it's way harder to get to a billion dollars then people realize and none of these companies have done it not one have them have gotten to a billion dollars in run rate unless you call like white cloth digitally native vertical brand. So I do think scaling is hard and if it's hard for these guys it's going to be a heck of a lot harder for these why you know companies that want to be super Capital light and not have stores and and all of those things and I well I. Don't over worry about the profitability I will tell you the unit economics are mildly concerning their making a custom product like they have to you know make those lenses for each customer and if they're having to spend $80 to acquire a customer that only half their customers are buying a second time they're only getting a hundred and or 218 dollars in revenue from each customer and they have to make a custom product in that it just like. [27:13] I'm not saying they can't get to profitability at a billion dollars but it's. It doesn't look like a home run business I could it still could be a good investment right and I mean as long as there's someone that's willing to pay more for your stock after you own it not saying the stock won't do well at all but it doesn't look like. A company that's likely to just you know generate like obscene free cash flow like Amazon does. Scot: [27:40] Yeah I bet if you looked at a kind of store cohort you'd be happier with the profitability and maybe that was something. Jason: [27:49] Yeah I would have loved to see that in this one and obviously they didn't put it in there. Scot: [27:53] Yeah you know and and yes so they must have been advised that the institutional investors aren't going to be that concerned that I think. I think they're actually close enough with the lines are the lines are converging so you know you can kind of see if you just kind of. Plot them out you can see they'll cross no get profitable because they're already been up positive So eventually they'll get to that net loss off when the lines are diverging like Lyft and Uber when they went public they had to spend a lot of time in there s one talking about well we know our lines are diverging but it's because we're if you take our cities that are over a year old they're very profitable and the reason our losses are growing faster than revenue is because we're opening city so fast and that's how investors got comfort in that example. Jason: [28:37] Yeah and their lines are diverging from 19 to 20 now they're going to say well but that's covid-19. Scot: [28:43] Yeah yeah that's project I could see that. Jason: [28:44] No I'm sure does yeah and especially again because stores. So Scott what did you learn from the allbirds S1. Scot: [28:56] Yeah allbirds was it was a good read I enjoyed it it was different you know so I kind of appreciate that having read a lot of these it was less dry of any S1 especially the mdna section was felt like the founders had definitely put their heart and soul into it I don't know if you do you listen to the podcast how I built this they. A really good episode on there and you know the thing another thing I appreciate about allbirds is there's consistency there every time you every time I hear one of the founders I go in a store have an online experience Packaging. They're very purposeful and brand message is very very tight in and until you try to do that it's hard to appreciate how hard it is to execute on that so, so I just really felt like that was interesting that even this one kind of landed on me as if you know the same vibe that I got from the store and the product and everything so that was really cool and kudos to them on that probably the most interesting thing about the allbirds S1 is they try to kind of tilt it and they say look we're not going to do an IPO we're going to do an S peo and what they're essentially doing is saying we want to elevate the discussion and talk a lot about sustainability and so they call it a sustainable public Equity offering and spe now I'll get into more of that but I wanted to go into some of the numbers first. [30:26] So on the number side there 2019 Revenue was a hundred ninety-three million and then in 2020 they did 219 million so so that's 13 percent year-over-year growth. [30:38] So that was interesting to me and then they it has accelerated from 20 22 21 looking at the six month period to 27 percent, they unfortunately there they've got a fair amount of international business you've got this kind of no Financial impact of currency conversion the FX is what they call it so do their 25 or 27 depend on depending on the currency situation but let's call it mid-20s and. So that's interesting so they've got accelerating Revenue growth which Wall Street loves to call that ARG ARG and then they broke out digital and said that it was 89 percent of their business and in 2020 that was a hundred ninety-four did you see that going down because part of their use of proceeds is opening a lot more stores they have 27 stores as of the IPO so June. [31:33] June 20 and then I've been 21 and then they have the pretty much say you know one of the we're going to open a lot more stores and it's gonna be a big push for us they also are losing money they're losing about 40 million a year so kind of twenty percent of Revenue is being lost which kind of feels you're going to lose money you might as well lose you know twenty Thirty forty percent of of Revenue to accelerate so that felt more in line with kind of what I've seen is public-private kind of vc-backed company coming into the public markets couple highlights on the other metrics they talk a lot about how their nudging gross margins up they in 2018 gross margins were at 47% and then moving up to 51% and a good expansion there on the margin side that's pretty typical as you scale and you start to nail down with any kind of manufactured product there's definitely margin benefits of scale right because you're buying more pallets of wool I don't know what we'll comes in sheep's of wool and you're getting more you know your. Paying off your fulfillment centers and you're taking a lot of these fixed costs you just putting more stuff through them so on a unit basis it drives in Crete drives down your unit cost just driving up your gross margins. [33:00] They were they were much more silent on cackle TV than what you saw with Laura B and so some of the data they had was they try to repeat customers and that number has gone up and. 2019 it was 46 percent of their revenues from repeat customers and then that was up in twenty twenty two fifty three percent they last raised a hundred million on 1.7 billion and I'll come back to that and then let's see the biggest thing about their IPO I hinted at the top with this spe oh is there all about sustainability and it's pretty interesting because some people they just kind of throw that in there in the hopes that there's the public markets there are increasingly large number of either, purposely built vehicles for investors that want to focus on this area or. [33:55] There's a big investors that are moving this way one of the biggest public investors is called Black Rock and they run out, huge massive amount of capital most of it in mutual funds but I think they have some hedge funds and whatnot and their CEO is basically put a Line in the Sand and said by can't remember the year but let's call it 20 30 or something like that they are going to shed any investment it doesn't really have kind of a framework around sustainability and you know. What people uses This Acronym ESG so environmental social and governance in essentially everyone wants companies to to self report what they want to do across those three dimensions and even the SEC is started kind of hinting and recommending that companies that they're going to start doing some things here and requiring them in things like us ones and then, the thing that's really interesting in a public company that I didn't learn until I was kind of deep inside of one a lot of these mutual funds so you go public and you have this new set of shareholders that are largely got mutual funds you've got index funds and you've got hedge funds and then retail which would be individual people like buying to their Charles Schwab well the mutual funds in the index funds when you. [35:17] When every year you put out these different things that you want your shareholders to vote on well they they don't like to vote on those things they like to defer that to a third party and there's several of these third parties once called ISS and the other ones called, glass Lewis or something like that and these third parties therefore become very powerful because they aggregate a lot of the, you know because these decisions are referred to them they thus aggregate a lot of power from your shareholders and they are really starting to get where they are they're saying you know even that's going to be kind of the first Domino to fall I think where they're going to say hey the recommendations we make on your board and comp and all these things that they have to opine on to the, to to the shareholders that have Outsource that to them they're going to really focus in on ESG so so it's a big movement and there's a lot of even CNBC runs like a every other day segment on this topic because it's become such a big big deal and you know I actually think it's good I think you know you would as a as you know. [36:24] Public means transparency and I think companies should be transparent about this stuff and if if they say you know I don't know where we're a liquor company and we're not really focused on this that's fine or if they say we're all birds and this is going to be a huge differentiator for us that's fine too it just you know at least let potential shareholders know where you are on the spectrum of things okay so that's the background the. [36:51] So these guys say look we we think this is so important we want to put a stake in the ground and we've come up with 19 criteria that we hope we're going to be the first we're going to kind of self rate ourselves against these criteria and they fall against, cross effectively two categories for each of the es and the D environmental societal and governance so it's things like you know they want to be carbon neutral they're going to like an environmental they're going to favor vendors that that kind of have a similar carbon neutrality and sustainability mindset to them and on the governance side they're going to have more diversity on their board and those kinds of things. [37:31] One of the interesting things they do explicitly State and this caused a lot of noise on Wall Street is they when you go public you get all these people there's kind of this this literal they call it the book so let's say you're going to sell a hundred million worth of shares you do your Roadshow and then you typically end up with maybe a more orders than you have shares she'll get 300 million so one way to you have an allocation problem so one thing you can do is you can just cut everyone back to a third and you can say well you want to 10 million now we're give you three that's how you could Jam 300 million of demand into a hundred million dollar opportunity well these guys have said is we're actually going to your allocation is going to depend on where you are as an investor as it relates to ESG so essentially they're saying if you're like one of these companies like BlackRock that that is really kind of pushing the foundation there we may give you your full allocation but if you're this kind of hedge fund that doesn't really even have a website and no statement on this then you may get no allocation or a smaller size allocation so that was pretty interesting that's the first time that's been done and that that was kind of. [38:37] Pretty interesting on that so encountered an actually mentioned sustainability in the s-1 over 200 times which is it just shows how important it is to them and you know a lot of companies. Tried this out but allbirds was founded with this right the whole idea of allbirds was could you find sustainable products to make a shoe with and they started with the wool even the soul is made from a plant-based material, if it was obvious like she shows her something to remember what it is. Jason: [39:07] I Scot: [39:09] But it's not rubber it you know it's not a you know there's two types of rubber there is a plant-based rubber from a rubber tree but most rubber is obviously from a petroleum-based so the other thing I thought was interesting is the essentially layout they have five pillars essentially and they basically say hey here's our five pillars we're going to be product Innovative platform Purpose Driven brand with an inspired voice. [39:38] Connections with our repeat customers around the globe so so Global and repeat customers are important to them vertical retail distribution strategy robust infrastructure creating a platform for scale the sequence of those is pretty interesting because again the first one is product Innovation and then second one is purpose-driven and that's where they capture a lot of the ESG stuff. [40:00] The I thought for listeners this would be the most interesting one is vertical retail distribution strategies I just wanted to add one will highlight here are digitally LED vertical retail distribution strategy combines our digital offerings with our stores so we can meet customers where they are delivering value and convenience with our store serving as brand begins our company was born online from the outset we developed a direct convenient digital platform for our customers we opened our first store and 2017 have since been expanding yada yada so and then they wrap up and say in 20 as of June 30 we 20:21 we had the ability to reach up to 2.5 billion consumers in 35 countries across our digital and Retail platforms so I thought that was pretty interesting where they're basically saying this D and B, be thing even though we're at a relatively small scale we think it's still important part of our future and stores are really more of a brand, front face to the digital back and so I thought that was interesting, let's see that some data on repeat analysis but you know the. [41:10] Those are the highlights they that is really confusing table where people bought more than their repeat purchase rate went up. [41:19] I kind of get wrapped up in a chicken and egg thing there because like just by buying more haven't you already made your repeat purchase go up like I couldn't unpack that in my head but I need and up figure that one out for me look at a secret credit card data my analysis on this one so that those are the kind of highlights my analysis was this one was shockingly smaller than I would have thought you know I. I kind of backed in this because I had heard that valuation of 1.6 on their last they're kind of in this unicorn status here 1.6 billion in your like okay a lot of these Brands you look at kind of public comps you get 325 x as an e-commerce company so let's give them a generous valuation of 5x so they must be three or four hundred million and then. Turns out they're kind of in this lower 200 or 300 million scale so that was like well they must be growing at a crazy Pace because if you're going at a hundred percent then you can still get a really nice vault. A super-sized multiple like they must be that makes them hopefully even higher right so there like a times multiple but they're really not they were going 25% so it's kind of a bit of a head-scratcher for me and I'm really curious to see how the IPO does because I kind of assumed I'm not smarter than than all these investors have looked at this and put this price tag on it so I must be missing something so you know the things I think I may be missing. [42:43] You know there's there's a lot of talk they've partnered with Adidas and they're definitely going after the running category and so taking on Nike if you can build anything that's, no one 20th of a Nike that's a big brand so that could be people could be looking at this and seeing the optionality of that is this could be you know counter to Nike this ESG piece it could be that there is an supply-demand imbalance I think. [43:15] I think this is definitely the case where there's a lot more ESG aware dollars looking for places to invest than there are places to put them, so that could be a factor maybe there's some bullish bullishness on the store business where people have done models they say well if they're at, 25 stores and they go to 250 that's going to the growth is going to accelerate a tremendous base so you know I kind of swirl all those around and you know it is interesting so I then I kind of put myself and say well if I was going to be with Nike how would you go about them and Nike doesn't have a lot of weaknesses and yeah they're ten years ago you and I would have said while their weaknesses are not going direct to Consumers but they've largely fixed that right and you've got a lot of you've got a whole deck on that that's excellent so that's not a weakness anymore and but you know Nikes weakness is could be there is a, you know and I don't know any facts on this it's just there's a lot of noise out there right that there's these Chinese labor camps that their products are made in and these sweatshops and children making the shoes and then certainly so there's there's kind of that that they're kind of unclean sourcing if you will. [44:32] People claiming it I have no idea what's going on there and then you know there is an argument to be made that Nike to my knowledge hasn't done a lot to say wow our products are sustainable in these ways is just really isn't their thing so so it is a clever way to attack Nike and maybe it's actually a combination of all these things that investors see and they say we think this is a pretty clever way to attack Nike they're going to get some market share because we think it's important to Consumers it's important to us and they kind of scroll all that together and that's why it gets the bigger multiple so I may be curious to see how the IPO does to see if, that multiple holds up or in a there's definitely something going on there or maybe it was just an anomaly in the private Market. Jason: [45:20] Yeah and in both cases like the. The economics of the IPO aren't really revealed yet right like we're a ways away from from like Target prices and like understanding what the valuation is going to be for the IPO. Scot: [45:37] Yeah yeah you know these guys that could have effectively a Down Round where they essentially say hey we want. Jason: [45:42] Both have raised a lot of money at some like reasonably High valuations. Scot: [45:48] Yeah and you know they probably wouldn't be going public if the bankers weren't telling them they're going to get. Yeah I really nice mark up unless there was some desperation reason and I just don't they're not burning enough Capital that I don't think the existing investors couldn't sustain them for years so so mi bat is the bankers think that they're going to do really well and we'll see a big pop so it will say. Jason: [46:18] Yeah well if you think so a I would say like one of the things that encouraging so a one thing a few things to remember that are different between these two companies is allbirds is much younger than Warby Parker so I want to say Orbeez like 11 years old allbirds is like 5 years old so there earlier in their evolution that 27 stores versus a hundred forty five stores and that's a. A huge difference because a big expense in having stores is advertising to get people to your stores and you know. Beyond the digital advertising which is very expensive per customer like traditional advertising is much less expensive but you have to buy traditional advertising. Based on a metro area and when you only have 27 stores it means basically you're buying an ad to that getting amortized for a single store whereas when you have a hundred and forty-five stores you can have six stores in a a big Metro and that same ad is driving customers to six doors so my first thing I would say is. It seems like they're committed to a store strategy but they're early in the face like they could get an ice pop as they open more stores because all of the marketing and advertising that they're already doing spending money on, will work much harder when they get to a little bigger feet of stores and the. There are economies and scale of running a fleet of stores versus at 27 stores they're probably pretty inefficient. Scot: [47:48] Yeah they talked about how they've had they've invested in some distribution centers into the store so they're probably over distribution Centered for you know 25 stores. Jason: [47:58] So I do think the stores thing is encouraging, um I always am uncomfortable on the whole Purpose Driven thing so because I guess I'm going to mines and you didn't mention it but I think one of the novel things about them is they're one of the first companies to go public that's a certified B Corporation. Scot: [48:16] There's several others so there's that brand for girls nothing to you. Jason: [48:28] Okay well it's I mean regardless a hundred percent think as a marketing tactic that you're a hundred percent right like there is a cohort of customers that really care about a variety of these different missions and Nike doesn't particularly appeal to a lot of them right and so. Kind of providing a viable alternative you know is certainly a way to win a segment I do think. They're very credible like they've been talking about this this sustainability purpose since the very beginning they've invested in it the shoe is more expensive to make because of some of the sustainability choices that they've made so it's not just kind of. [49:12] Ecology washing on top of a you know a greedy brand and like I think their claim in their in their last one is that the the shoe has a like 30% less. Less ecological footprint than a traditional shoe and I think traditional she was code named for Nike by the way. So so I do think they are they are credible in their Purpose Driven thing and there's a. At the moment there are all these surveys of consumers that o gen Z is way more purpose-driven and and way more so than older cohorts they say that you know they really care about a brand that aligns with their goals and they care about the ecological issues and ethical issues in all of these different things and it feels like Auburn's is well positioned to cater to those customers so superficially you go oh nice it's a. It's a growing favorable Trend in there a strong executor at it and I think some of that is legitimate. [50:16] But in the back of my head there's this this famous academic paper from like 8 years ago called the myth of the ethical consumer and basically all young consumers have always said in surveys that they care about these various missions but when you look at their spending habits, there their convictions are a lot less strong than their stated preferences are and so I do I worry. [50:43] About completely hanging my hat on consumers doing the right thing when they're there. [50:50] Happily buying a lot of Nikes obviously I did also think it's interesting. Obviously the unit economics are wildly different than Warby Parker because of the nature of the product but they have 3.3 million us consumers worry Parker has two million consumers despite the fact where we Partners got this way bigger Fleet of stores and has been marketing for six more years so, so they are getting decent reach, both companies disclose their MPS scores their net promoter score and and they're both astronomically high and allbirds is even higher than Warby Parker so they. They're making their customers happy. They're doing well the one thing that jumped out at me as a opportunity is for allbirds that would be harder for worry Parker is. Okay you start out purely online and you're growing through digital ads and then you start opening stores and you invest a bunch in opening your own stores what other levers could you pull if you need to get your customer acquisition cost down. And it's not obvious to me what the big ones are for for Warby Parker, a play that some similar companies to allbirds have run is expanding in a wholesale once once they sort of reach a plateau and allbirds absolutely could do that as well and so it again my takeaway from both of these companies is. [52:17] Scaling is way harder than the the Twitter DTC Universe realizes they all want to imagine these companies are much bigger than they are because they've raised a bunch of money. It turns out raising a bunch of money doesn't equal winning a bunch of customers not saying these two companies can't be wildly successful in win a bunch of customers, I'm just saying it's really hard it's a huge competitive advantage to be a big company that already has a bunch of customers. And it's hard to start a new brand from scratch and catch up and these both of these are examples of that and it's going to be really interesting as they keep trying to grow to see what. What new things they try to accelerate that growth. Scot: [52:59] Yeah absolutely and I was curious I just looked it up allbirds is an 86 net promoter score and War B's latest measure is 83. Jason: [53:08] And those are both astronomical and side note there's some controversy about how people measure it in the inventors of the metric. Our kind of annoyed with how everyone's misusing it so it's not guaranteed that that's perfectly Apples to Apples but. That those numbers kind of fit with the consumer sentiment that I've experienced for both brands. Scot: [53:32] Yeah yeah we do a whole show on the purity of net promoter score. Jason: [53:37] That would be awesome. Scot: [53:40] But that in with some attribution man that's a party right there. Go well it wouldn't be a Jason and Scot show if we didn't have a little bit of. Jason: [53:52] Amazon news new your margin is there opportunity. Scot: [54:04] That's right we got a couple in lausanne news items the one I wanted to chat with you Jason is, Amazon announced they are partnering with buy now pay later firm a firm so that was an interesting one did that take you by surprise. Jason: [54:21] It did it totally did not it didn't surprise me at all that they're getting into buy now pay later it's a huge trend. In a way like I knew they didn't have one but it kind of when I heard it read it and I said it to myself out loud I was cut it's kind of shocking. That they're just now adding it now they have dabbled in the past. With with much earlier iterations of these sort of installment plans but what totally took me by surprise is that they chose a firm like a a firm is working with a lot of. Direct Amazon competitors that aren't going to be happy about this I'm thinking of for example Walmart. And so I'll be curious to see how that flushes out and have a firm can successfully keep both of those clients happy that would be impressive and frankly there's just so much money to be made in this space and an Amazon scale I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't do it themselves. Scot: [55:14] Yeah that shocked me to the thing is I've been digging into these being the combi and pills and it's really interesting so if you look at a firm karna and a bunch of these, you know what they're finding is the under 30 year old consumer, doesn't like the way credit card debt Works where you have this pool of you know that you can pull down and then it accumulates they much prefer to match it with a purchase and pay off the purchase and it's really interesting to read about that and then the the both the firms in there s ones they have a lot of data around us and increasingly even after they've gone public there's more data coming out about this trend so I was I was thinking. You know why Amazon has they if you're a seller though and you money you know they've got their own credit card there's got to be like. What is the larger Banks kind of effectively inside of Amazon that doesn't really Market itself as a bank because it doesn't want to be regulated like a bank maybe that's part of what. Triggers them not doing it. Jason: [56:16] Dress fear about yeah Fair. Scot: [56:18] Yeah there's any trust thing but it is funny you know we've been at this long enough I remember. I'm old enough to remember there was this startup called bill me later and they came on the scene and Amazon used it and you know loved it and was actually giving them quotes that conversions were up 20 percent and then eBay bot eBay / PayPal but Bill Me Later and Amazon ripped them off the site the next night it was controversial and we're all like holy cow I can't you know I think we're all shocked how quickly Amazon turned that off after seeing his praises so it is kind of funny to watch now Amazon jump back into it you know probably been 15 years at this point back into it and partner up with the firm so I almost kind of wondered if. Maybe there was an investment phase but also doesn't Shopify own a chunk of a firm like there's an alliance there too which is another it's unlike Amazon to lay down you kind of have connections into. Competitors even one degree away with a firm in the Middle With both Walmart and Shopify it all. Jason: [57:22] And there is Juicy data at play in this service so it is it is interesting. Scot: [57:28] Yeah days was famously he wouldn't ever he really didn't want to buy any Google ads because he didn't want them to see what they're up to. Jason: [57:36] No I mean part of me would almost suspect that Amazon is like trying to learn on a firm and that it wouldn't be a long-term deal but I entirely speculation. Scot: [57:46] I think both of our Spidey senses are tingling on this one and we'll keep an eye on it then there was a battle of press releases where Amazon Walmart said we're hiring 20,000 people and then Amazon du ha ha we're hiring 50,000 so that was that was the other Amazon news I saw. Jason: [58:02] Yeah I saw that too I got to be honest to me those were nothing Burgers it's super complicated both of those companies hire a ton of seasonal Labour way more than that right and. Sidenote like targets hiring a hundred and thirty thousand people for Christmas so those numbers just didn't seem that impressive and if I was if I was Walmart my press release would have said hey we've hired 500,000 people since covid-19 like that seems that's true and that seems a lot more impressive than than the 20,000 I guess what is interesting in both cases is, this is not seasonal labor these are full-time jobs just dedicated to fulfilling e-commerce orders so that's kind of interesting. [58:42] And two other tiny pieces of Walmart news in the the time that we don't have left Walmart did announce. An enhancement to their advertising echo system so they have a thing called the Amazon or Walmart connect and they launched a DSP for that. Demand-side platform it's a way to use Walmart data to Target segments and by ads both. On Walmart so walmart.com and in Walmart stores but also um across the the interweb using Walmart's first-party data and as we talked about in our privacy show as it's harder to use Google and Facebook targeting because of all these privacy concerns. It makes sense that that retailers are trying to maximize The Leverage they have with their 1p data Walmart has the most customers so they have the most wimpy data and so that that's kind of an interesting evolution of their ad platform and a potential competitive Advantage for Walmart. [59:47] And then another one that's just kind of interesting that I didn't necessarily expect Walmart launched a new delivery platform. Which is delivering goods for other retailers. So they call it Walmart Go Local and essentially you can be independent owner operator you know, in a town and sell stuff for home delivery and Walmart will use their network of owned delivery. People in vehicles to pick stuff up from your bakery and drive them to a customer for a fee. Scot: [1:00:19] Yeah we'll see how that goes I don't know if I want my bakery to be delivered by Walmart. Jason: [1:00:27] Yeah I mean there's a number of issues it just to me it's interesting because obviously Walmart used to be a pure retailer you know you're seeing them lean into a lot of services they it was a few weeks ago but they announced this deal with. With Adobe whether they're they're selling software to Adobe and now they're selling delivery services to you know Main Street when you know used to be the narrative was that Walmart was putting Main Street out of business so it just it's interesting to see the evolution of Walmart. Scot: [1:00:57] I've whenever Walmart talks about some of the services they show kind of a low WalMart delivery vehicle that looks a lot like an Amazon Prime van. Jason: [1:01:06] Yeah they have a lot of different they have kind of a patchwork Fleet of delivery services and some of them use different vehicles but you you maybe more expert in the Walmart delivery Fleet than I am. Scot: [1:01:20] I just see this picture and it I think a lot about Vans everyday and it resonates with me. [1:01:32] I appreciate it thanks for looking out for me well we are out of time and one of the topics we wanted to cover but what with all the juicy IPO news didn't get to this time but will dedicate neck so to it is there is a lot coming up we're kind of coming in to wear it the past the halfway point of Q3 and all eyes will turn to Q4 with the holiday season it's going to be really unique this year because we cut the covid thing we've got the Delta variant we've got all kinds of crazy weather going on with hurricanes so as a retailer it's a really wacky time and one of the things we want to talk about next show is ship again so we coined that here on the show last year and turned out to be probably bigger than even we anticipated what's going on with that and 2021 I see a lot of time thinking about Vanagon there's also chip again so which which caused Vanagon so with want to talk about all the geddens that we're seeing out there. And then also you know there's a lot of interesting things going on the supply chain we've been you know the team here at the Jason Scott show and our many analysts have been listening in to the quarterly results and and talking to retailers about this and we have a lot of information to share on that kind of T up what we think the holiday is going to look like from from those angles. Jason: [1:02:55] Wow that sounds like an awesome show I can't wait to hear it. Scot: [1:02:58] I know I cannot wait for us to make it. Jason: [1:03:01] Will Scott it's happen again we've totally used up our allotted time as always if this was valuable we sure would appreciate that five star review on iTunes and only takes a second it's easier than ever before to leave it jump over there give us a review and make sure you're subscribed to get that next podcast Scot teas. Scot: [1:03:21] Absolutely thanks everyone and until next time… Jason: [1:03:24] Happy commercing.

Back to league duty and its St Mirren on horizon for Celtic.So Scott meets with old mucker, Chris Dailly of St Mirrenoff fame.The lads discuss the Saints season least year and how one result could have meant so much more.We look at this summers goings on, who came in and who went out and what it means to the Paisley side.We looked at the squad and who is the danger men.We finish off by chatting about the recent matches and what that means for the games coming upEnjoy

Scott O'Neill and his wife, Mina, are experienced, sophisticated and active property investors who retired from their day jobs at the tender age of 28! That's a story worth exploring. They did it by investing in both residential property initially and then evolved into commercial property.  With a property portfolio that boasts in the order of 32 properties with a value of $22M releasing just under half a million in passive income every year, Scott's and Mina's passion, commitment and hard work has paid off in spades - so much so that they were able to take a six month sabbatical from working life and do nothing but travel Europe on the strength of their property portfolio passive income. They then got bored of the good life without purpose and fulfilment and decided to teach others how to reach the same property success, which is where their business Rethink Investing was born. And not just content with their own success, Scott and the Rethink Investing team have now helped over 1800 clients purchase in excess of $1 billion in real estate since 2015. Rethink Investing has also been recognised as a BRW Fast 100 company and has become Australia's number one buyer's agency for commercial property investors. So while there are certainly differences between residential and commercial property investment, the pros far outweigh the cons in the context of adding high cash flow assets into your portfolio mix, especially in the latter stages when you've built up significant, accessible equity in your residential portfolio like Scott and Mina did. And Scott and I are also of the same belief that investing now is one of the greatest opportunities we will ever see. With Scott's commercial properties, they are seeing net yields of seven per cent plus, with commercial lending interest rates under three per cent.  That's a massive four per cent gap! Historically, we expect to see a gap of two per cent.  This means that right now there's the opportunity of a lifetime to get the best cash flow returns ever in commercial property.  This, in turn, should result in strong capital growth as the gap between these two metrics narrows. So Scott's message is simple: Don't think of commercial property as a risky investment just because we're in a pandemic.  Scott's team target the most resilient types of businesses. And as you'll here during our chat today, Scott's strategy of buying medical, logistics, and other essential services–type investments with strong tenants has proven to be very resilient.  And In recognition of their outstanding achievements in both residential and commercial property investment, in 2019 Your Investment Property awarded Scott ‘Strategic Property Investor Of The Year'. Scott is also the host of top rating podcast, Inside Commercial Property which you can find at https://www.rethinkinvesting.com.au/podcast/, while Scott and Mina are also the authors of the great book on commercial property investing, Rethink Property Investing. Grab yourself a free introductory chapter at https://www.rethinkinvesting.com.au/book/ by inserting the code (Bushy) in brackets alongside your name along with your email address. So in this episode we're traversing the full ins and outs of Scott and Mina's full journey through residential to commercial property and picking up some absolute gems, learnings, tips and tricks for you along the way, including: The impacts of a forever deadline The leverage benefit of property over shares How rentvesting was critical to establishing their property portfolio How to avoid red line stress when investing How to transition from residential to commercial property He dispels the common myths that are held around commercial We talk about how you can access syndicates to secure commercial property Scott outlines the benefits of a two speed portfolio He outlines their transition to retirement strategy He gives you a great run around the country on which areas he thinks are best to invest in And he highlights why now is actually a good time to get rid of and sell any dud properties you have in your portfolio that may be holding you back And much of Scott and Mina's success is owed to the fact that they've always looked beyond their own backyard. Beyond their familiar territory in Sydney, and even beyond the traditional investment focus of residential property to commercial property. They like to do things differently, to challenge the status quo. They like to take calculated risks, and they soon realised that you can invest more successfully outside of where you live.  By looking beyond your own backyard, you can look to different asset classes to get you there, and discover that the local residential market is not the only way.  There is no doubt that today's conversation will inspire you to go to the next level in your property investment. So no matter where you're at, I'd like to invite you to join our unique KnowHow Property Freedom Flight program, where I'll personally guide you through my proven process for property investment success.  To book your ticket or find out more, click here https://knowhowproperty.com.au/freedom-fighters. And if you want to hear more from Scott along with all of Australia's leading property investors and independent professionals, join me and the other 120,000 plus regular listeners every week as I now anchor host the country's most popular and longest running property show Realty Talk, so I look forward to seeing you on channels.realty.com.au/realtytalk where we share short and sharp take home tips and tricks on all things property.  Scott's book recommendation: The Secret Life Of Real Estate and Banking by Phillip Anderson Get Invested is the leading weekly podcast for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full ‘self, health and wealth' potential. Hosted by Bushy Martin, an award winning property investor, founder, author and media commentator who is recognised as one of Australia's most trusted experts in property, investment and lifestyle, Get Invested reveals the secrets of the high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and the world around them. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.com

Loki continues to screw around with the foundation of the MCU and X-23 returns to blow up Hydra bases in X-Men Evolution! Join us as we discuss...How Loki will allow Disney to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to preserving their sacred timeline and intellectual property!Would you buy an Omega Red action figure?So Scott and Jean are just skipping higher education?Poorly named characters in the Marvel Universe!We had fun with this one and continue to have fun with Evolution as a whole, hope you are too! The X-Men TAS Podcast is now on Twitch… click here to go to our page and follow and subscribe so you can join in on all the mysterious fun to be had! Also, make sure to subscribe to our podcast via Buzzsprout, iTunes or Stitcher and tell all your friends about it! Last but not least, follow Willie Simpson on Twitter and please join our Facebook Group!

So Scott is continuing his chronological Star Trek watch with Season 1 of Enterprise. Lets find out what he liked and well what else there was for that season.

So Scott was able to get Jason to watch one of the greatest movies according to AFI and IMDB. So lets see what they have to say.

So Scott's challenge to Joey of Escape To Witch Mountain has Joey all fired up. Not in a good way though. Expect rants and possible foaming of the mouth.

Scott called into The Jubal Show after a date with Christine, at a restaurant that had a live band there. It was kind of an awkward social distance one. So Scott decided to break the awkwardness by asking the band for requests. Scott is afraid that's why he isn't getting a callback! Jubal Fresh calls her and finds out what really went wrong on the date! Let us know what you think on social!Follow us at: @thejubalshow @jubalfresh @thatdreas @evanontheradio

Sadly, Kyle informs the guys on this episode that the famous hound of Winchester had to be put to sleep. So Scott and Barry quickly form a support group and console with Kyle. After a few tears, they turn to their typical theologizing, this time about animals and our relationship to them. Scott refers to …

This week, we had the chance to sit down with Scott Hamilton, Founder & CEO, of Hex Technology. These guys guys realized early on that this entire industry is comprised of nuts and bolts and these tend to be where failures happen. This was due to the fact that no one was properly trained on how to assemble things. So Scott walked us through how set out on a mission to do educational training for various organizations, predominately on the downstream side of the business. The post Hex Technology on Oil and Gas Startups appeared first on Digital Wildcatters.

As one of the most well-respected officials in the sport, Marc Goddard has a wealth of knowledge and passion for MMA. So Scott and Dan were thrilled to welcome him onto The Couchside Judges to give us — and you, the listener — insights on everything from deprogramming misconceptions to his work with the IMMAF. Don't skip past this episode

Well it's that time again to go through the Stargate, So Scott and Jason discuss Season 5 of SG1

Our topic today is Growing Up Through Value Acceleration and we are excited to have with us Scott Snider of The Exit Planning Institute. Scott is responsible for the strategic direction of the organization along with overseeing the company’s operations and chapter development. Since joining EPI, Scott has expanded the organization regionally, nationally, and globally, providing a transformational educational experience to advisors from all specialties across the globe. So Scott is an expert in the Exit Planning industry and we’re excited to have him with us today.

Jason finally did it, he watched the 1st season of Community. So Scott and Jason go over the good and the great of season 1 of Community.

Speaker 1: The chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken. I'm Richa Sigdel and I'm Tri-city influencer. Paul Casey: We measure what we value. I love that because what gets measured gets done. If you want to make sure a new habit is going to occur, you've got to track it. You've got to measure it. So if you want to get better at whatever your goal is, track it. Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul Casey: It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Scott Sax. He is the president and project manager of the Central Plateau Cleanup Company, and Jennie Stults, who is the business development director of Amentum. And they like hanging out together so we decided to do it together. And I asked them what's funny and they sort of give a yin and yang kind of answer that one loves green pens, one loves purple pens. So tell us the story of that. Scott Sax: So, yeah. That's something interesting that Jennie and I have discovered about each other. She asked me why I always wrote in green, and there all kinds of quirky answers that you could have like Navy captains always write in green. Well I wasn't in the Navy. But I do have a real story. It's a leadership story. I was walking into one of my plants in Colorado when I was running the site. The manager was with me, and he was signing a work permit to access the area, and he signed in red ink. And our control technician said, "You can’t sign in red. You have to sign in black." And he said, "Why?" He says, "Well, that's just the way you do things." And so when we went out, I figured out, "I’ve got to find out if he has to sign in black ink." And sure enough there was no real reason to sign in black ink. It was all stuck to the old xerox machines that you signed in black or blue in the 60s. And it stayed around and it just became a legacy requirement. Scott Sax: So from that moment on, I always signed everything in green ink to remind myself that you can change anything. Okay? And remind yourself that anything can be changed if it's inefficient, dumb, or just a legacy thing. Paul Casey: A great leadership principle from a quirky thing. I love it. I love it. It's sort of like the ham. "Why was the ham cut off?" "Oh, it's because my grandma cut it off because her grandma..." "Because the oven was too big, and we had to cut it off." Scott Sax: Right. Paul Casey: Well we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer? Mario Martinez: Hey Paul. Thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices in that we focus in two areas of financial plans. The first one is we do protection pieces which include life insurance, disability insurance, long term care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. And on the other side of our practices, we do investment services. And on the investment platforms we do both the brokerage platform, and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone is looking for as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them to make sense. Paul Casey: Mario, how can people get in touch with you? Mario Martinez: The easiest way you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone is 509-591-5301. You can send me an email at mario.martinez@nm.com. Or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms, the easiest one being Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook. Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri-cities. Well, welcome Scott and Jennie, and thanks for being a part of this today. And we had the hard drive crash of 2020 in among the other crazy things that have happened in 2020. So thanks for coming back and re-interviewing here on the Tri-City Influencer. So tell us a little bit about your backgrounds so that our influencers can get to know you. Maybe a little bit of your journey to your current position and why you love what you do. They're just pointing at each other. It's sort of funny. Scott Sax: I‘ll go ahead and start since I’ve got the longer story because I'm way older than Jennie. So I started my career after college training sailors in the Navy Nuclear Power Program. In the center of Idaho there's actually an aircraft carrier and two submarines, or there was. And that's where they train sailors before they could sink their submarine. And that’s what I did. I was working for Westinghouse. I went from there to Plutonium Production for weapons at Rocky Flats in Colorado, and I've done a variety of things since then, came and ran the plutonium finishing plant here in the early 2000s, worked at Tank Farms as a chief operating officer. In the early 2010s, I went to the UK and I was in charge of all of the commercial nuclear fuel work for the United Kingdom. Came back, ran River Corridor Closure Project as a project manager and president, and starting Monday, I'll start kicking off my new job as the president and project manager for Central Plateau Cleanup, cleaning up the center of Hanford. Paul Casey: What a story. So all the Hanford people are just, "Yeah." Checking things off the list. "I remember that. I remember that." And the rest of us are, "All those sound like acronyms that I don't understand.” Jennie Stults: Every time I hear him talk about his career it's really amazing. So, yeah. He deserves all of a lot of credit. Paul Casey: Incredible. Jennie Stults: Yeah. So my career has been a little different. I've been mostly at Hanford. I started out at, well I actually started out way back when I was in high school. And then I went on, was at PNNL for multiple years. And then took a career change out to Hanford and I worked at Tank Farms, and when my second kiddo was born, I took a state job at the Department of Ecology, and worked on the flip side of being a contractor, actually doing the regulatory work, and did that till I think my youngest was in kindergarten or so, and then went back to the contractor, which was a highlight. I actually got hired a four, and went into a completely different kind of career into the hardcore DOD group out there, which was a great highlight. It was a big change for me, and really loved it. And I worked in Hanford for 13 years doing that work. Jennie Stults: And recently joined Amentum last year as a business development director. So I took another career change. So I've done a lot of different kind of things, which is good. I call myself kind of a utility player. But I've adapted because of different things, a lot of different challenges. And so I'm enjoying my current job. So that's a highlight too. So... Paul Casey: And what does Amentum do? Jennie Stults: So, Amentum, which is the parent company for where Scott has been, you've been Amentum and all the legacy companies, right? Scott Sax: Correct. Jennie Stults: Yeah. So we're a government contractor that has around 20,000 employees. And we just bought DynCorp, so now we're going to have 37,000, 40,000, I don't know, 20 some odd countries. I probably should know the tagline a little bit better. Jennie Stults: So all over. But our division that has gone there, and nuclear environmental, so we run a lot of the DOE sites, our partners on the DOE sites as well as other federal, state, local cleanup work across the US, and in the UK and Japan. So we've got a big division. Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Scott Sax: So a little bit to add onto what Amentum is. So a lot of people know who Amentum is, and Amentum was born out of AECOM, which was a partner with URS which bought The Washington Group which bought Morrison-Knudsen, and Westinghouse. So a lot of the old companies that have been around Hanford for literally almost 60 years, since the beginning. So, a very big company and now Amentum is just focused on those government supports primarily for the Department of Defense, NASA, and the Department of Energy. Paul Casey: Okay. And why do you both love what you do? Got to love what you do. So what wakes you up with enthusiasm in the morning? Jennie Stults: So for me, personally I like to be challenged. I like to do a lot of different things. I like to take on new roles. That's what excites me. I think my thing in terms of leadership is I really like to work on teams. I like to bring people together and foster a sense of kind of collaboration. That really drives me. I don't like environments where it's just very you're one on one, and everybody is kind of free for all. I like to get consensus. So I think if anything that kind of drives me at work, is to work on new things. And for me, I'm not afraid to try something new. I like change. A lot of people don't, and that's fine too. So I'd say that kind of drives me for sure. Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Has virtual been hard for you being a team person? Jennie Stults: No. Actually in some ways it hasn't because I've gotten to do different things again. It just forces you to- Paul Casey: Another challenge. Yeah. Jennie Stults: Yeah. Yeah. And there's other things I like about virtual. I'm actually not too much of a people person believe it or not, but I do like to work in groups and teams, and so we've just tried different things. Scott Sax: I'll give you an alternate answer to that. I hate virtual, okay? I love to work with teams too, and I love to get stuff done, and the stuff I like to get done is executing projects, delivering products, all the people I work with have heard me say, "We deserve to provide the taxpayer a nuclear baker's dozen. We need to give 13 units for every 12 units of money they give us." And that's not the reputation of the Department or Energy kind of work in the nuclear cleanup. It's always going to cost more, take longer, et cetera. Scott Sax: And so that's what gets me charged up is working with a group of people to figure out how to do more for less, and save the taxpayers money. Paul Casey: Sounds like efficiency to me. Scott Sax: Yeah. Paul Casey: So give us a hurdle along your journey that you've overcome in your career. Scott Sax: I think my biggest hurdle, and I probably will never overcome it, is that self confidence in my own ability to get things done, and understanding what's possible. So I think there's always a little bit of insecurity when you're going into a job. "Am I good enough for this? Am I going to deliver or not for the people? Am I going to leave my guys that are working with me and for me lacking because of some weakness I have?" So I think the hurdle I have every single day is to strive harder and work harder, and I think that that's probably consistent with a lot of type A kind of people is that they have that little bit of insecurity that makes them think they're not as good as anybody else, so they work harder, or try harder. Paul Casey: Sounds like humility to me, Scott. Jennie how about you? Jennie Stults: So I probably have something very similar to Scott on that part. I think so my biggest hurdles in terms of growing as a leader and moving up or achieving more, have been because I am a utility person, I have quite often my career found being turned to the left because there has been a company project, and, "Oh, you were kind of on this trail, but oh my gosh, there's an emergency out here. So Jennie, you're perfect." And one day I'm out at the 100K area trying to figure out how to do X, Y, Z, and I've never done it before. Jennie Stults: So I think it's great to be a utility person. I think you need them. I think the hardest part for me with that is it led to sometimes hard to establish a path up into leadership. And so I guess one of my lessons though is you still need to be true to who you are. If you enjoy doing a lot of different things, then do that. Eventually it will work. It may feel like you're getting to the left, to the right, but the one thing I learned about all of my jobs, and I know Scott has probably had jobs where he thought he was going this way, and well I know he has, and you end up going a different way. You didn't get what you wanted. Is that, "I wouldn't be doing my job today had I not done all those different things." Jennie Stults: So at the time it feels a little bit to the left or a set back or different things, but in reality I think every time, I learn something. And so you just have to approach things that way, is you can't see it at the time, but six months later, a year later, you go, "Oh, well that's why that happened." So I think those are some of the hurdles, but I think it is how you face them when you do have those hurdles. Paul Casey: Would you also be an advocate of cross training for that reason? Being versatile to be able to be put in different places in an organization? Jennie Stults: I think so. I think that's one thing as leaders, that's hard to do when you have good people working for you, or around you or even up, is you do not want to let them go because they're there. But I think, and Scott might have some experience with this, is I think it does people good to be forced into different things. You learn some new tools, you learn adaption, you learn how... And sometimes it makes you better I found. I think I got better in positions where I was the least comfortable, but you really have to work hard. Paul Casey: What's your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader? What really stretching you even after all of your years of experience? Scott Sax: I'll give you two answers to that. One answer is directly with a current job, as we're about ready to kick off a transition and take over a major contract. And so establishing the vision, and bringing the team along, and establishing the culture we want, but also growing and learning the culture that's already existing in there. So I think that vision and that leadership part of that is really important for me personally. I'm not at the beginning of my career. So personally I'm at the end of my career. I'm not going to have a lot more jobs. So keeping that passion every single day to get up and drive and make a difference is different in the different parts of your job. So that's it. That's my two. Paul Casey: What does stoke that passion for you? Scott Sax: People. People. And I think in analogies, and I think in pictures. And so, and the things that really just absolutely turn me on is when I talk to somebody that has got a Ph.D in forklift, that just is absolutely a master in running a forklift because I'm not. And asking them how do they do their job so well, and what could I do to help them do their job better. It's real exciting. And so that does turn me on when you get to see somebody just do something that is just marvel. Paul Casey: Love it. Jennie Stults: So for me, I think you work on things all the time. It's kind of funny. And you go through one week, it seems like you're working on something the next week. So for me, it kind of varies depending on what I'm working on, but sometimes I think us type A people try and take on too much, and that's probably my biggest thing I work on, is- Paul Casey: I wouldn't know what that means. Jennie Stults: Yeah, I know. Setting those good boundaries. And so I have really tried to embrace that over the last few years, and chosen to build up my teams around me, and rely on them. And I have found a passion for doing that. I really enjoy mentoring people, I really enjoy working as a team and getting them, because sometimes it's amazing what ideas... I can't remember who. I think it might have been Patton who even said you just tell them where you want to go and they're all figure it out, and there will be a better answer than you could ever come up with. And I've seen that in action myself. I've tried some techniques like that, and it does work. So not just saying, "Oh I can do this because I can do it." but actually stepping back and letting other people start to shine, I think us leaders really need to embrace that, and I think it's something I work on myself is making sure. And I get a lot of reward out of it but it's tough still too. Paul Casey: It is. But it multiplies your influence, doesn't it? Jennie Stults: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Casey: If you both had a leadership philosophy that you put front and center on a bulletin board in your office at all times for everyone to see, what would those messages say? Scott Sax: So it's funny you ask that question because I actually have four signs that I've had with me, and I've added them throughout my career. And the very first one I put up on my wall was just sign that said Pride. And I had my favorite coach in college, a guy named Sonny Holland, and his leadership skill, and what I took away from him was you need to be proud of your individual effort contributing to the team's success, and if you are every single day to try to do that, you could be proud of your team. And I think being proud of something as a father, as a manager, as a teammate, is probably the thing that is my philosophy is, "Don't do anything that you wouldn't be proud of, and try to do things that you can be proud of." Jennie Stults: What's your other signs though? Paul Casey: Yeah, now we want to know because you said there's four. Scott Sax: There's four. "Be part of the solution, not part of the problem." Paul Casey: Love it. Scott Sax: I put that one up when I was a maintenance manager. "The key to getting better is working smarter not harder." And I did that to keep reminding myself every single day that extra hours don't necessarily mean extra productivity. Paul Casey: True. Scott Sax: And then probably my favorite of all time is, "If you aim at nothing, you hit it every time." And so that ties back to that vision. You got to know where you want to go, where you're expecting to go, where you want your team to go, instead of just marching off smartly in all directions. Paul Casey: Good ones. Good ones. Jennie Stults: So I have two, or three maybe. But the one I would say the teams that work with me the most hear me say the most is, "We’ve got to get to point B first." So I see a lot, and I understand totally that you got to have a whole team that sees things all differently. But a lot of times in leadership you'll hear all sorts of things about a step that's 20 months down the road, and we'll have spent 30 minutes on it. And I really try and focus my teams on, "Yes. We have to think long term, but you also have to get to B." You know what I mean? "You're worried about G. Let's get to B first, and let's figure that out." And I think Scott probably sees a lot of that in his leadership that he has done too is we could worry about every single thing going wrong but let's try and figure out the near term, and then we'll keep going. Jennie Stults: And so I think that's probably the one, if you ask some of the people that work with me that hear me say that the most. The other thing I would say is a philosophy of mine is to do what you're doing today the best you can. So we all have things on our jobs that aren't our favorite, but you got to focus in, and I think as leaders, it's really important to remember that because you always lean towards the things you'd like to do. But I really do try, I'm not perfect at it, but I really do try to do my best at what I'm doing today, and sometimes that is stuff that you think, "Oh my gosh. Why am I doing this?" But sometimes you just got to do it and stuff. Jennie Stults: So that's something I try and always make sure the teams around me always know that you got to pitch in, you got to do stuff, let's all work together. And usually it works pretty good that way. Paul Casey: Yeah. I do one thing, I saw you do everything. So that's why you do your best at everything. Jennie Stults: Right. Paul Casey: Well before we get into our next question on vision and more of these guys; dream about the future, let's shout out to our sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor? Mario Martinez: Hey Paul. That's a great question. Really I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional, or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. And the other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from. So there's really an over information in that sense. So those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional. Paul Casey: Fantastic. So Mario, how can people get in touch with you? Mario Martinez: The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone which is 509-591-5301. You can send an email to mario.martinez@nm.com, or you can find us on our business Facebook page which is Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual. Paul Casey: So Jennie and Scott, most influencers I know have a little bit of visionary inside them, and as the leader we have to think about the next hill, even though as Jennie said, we get to point B first before we get to Z. So where do you take time to dream about the future? What does that look like for you? Scott Sax: So I find that I get my best dreams about the future when I'm really tired of fighting the daily mundane bureaucratical stuff. I'm actually not known for my patience. In fact I'm pretty famous for my impatience. Paul Casey: Jennie, stop laughing. Scott Sax: When I get very impatient, I start grading even on myself. I just go out into the field and I watch work get done, and wander around and talk to people. And they just energize me. And most of the things that I can actually say about myself is I've had a tremendous number of ideas or great ideas, but I'm a good implementer of ideas. So if I can ask somebody, "What's your idea for something to make our job better?" and they have it, I love to grab that and run with it and turn that into the future. And so I think dreaming up what you can be and what perfect looks like is important. But again, embrace today and get everything you can get done today. And it enables a lot of stuff in funny ways for tomorrow. Paul Casey: And you listen to your constituents to help create the vision it sounds like. Scott Sax: Right. Jennie Stults: So I get a lot of my personal inspiration stuff because I'm a very avid reader. So I actually like to read different sources: leadership newsletters in my email, sometimes some of them speak to me. And I would say that's probably my biggest source. Sometimes I listen to different things when I'm walking or whatever else, but I tend to do that. I tend to go in batches, and try and really take on some things, especially when I'm finding some challenges, I'll go and look for some inspiration there, and, "How do you handle this? How do you handle that?" And so I think that probably is my biggest source of different things, is doing that, but there's all sorts of different inspirations. I think Scott is right. Every day you get inspired by co-workers, friends, family, whatever it is. Paul Casey: And you can learn from everything, right? Jennie Stults: Absolutely. Paul Casey: Yeah, I'm sitting at a conference, and I may not even completely connect with the person that I'm listening to, but my brain takes one of those concepts and runs with it in a applicable way for what I'm doing, or if I'm listening to a podcast, same deal. And so with the emails. And it's hard not to be compulsive because, "Oh, this newsletter came in. I've got to get something from it. Before I delete it, I have to..." And sometimes I can get a little OCD about that. But I want to learn from everything. Paul Casey: But let's go a little granular with your life here. What's yourtypical morning routine for both of you? Maybe before work, maybe once you arrive at work, do you have any rituals that help you start your day strong? Scott Sax: Well I get up, get in the shower, and get to work in 30 minutes. Paul Casey: And you probably have to get up early, right? Scott Sax: I do. And I try to get to work between 5:00 and 5:30. I did that primarily when I had little kids because I added all my time onto the beginning of the day, and tried not to take their time away from them at night, or on weekends. And so my days got longer. Now I just go to bed earlier. But so I get up, get to work, drink coffee, and I dive into those mundane emails that you're talking about, and try to get the routine stuff cleaned off my system before everybody else starts getting to work. And then I can engage people. Paul Casey: So many leaders I've interviewed use that morning time before they get interrupted by the flood of people arriving to really get some quality stuff done. Jennie Stults: So I have kind of a typical routine, at least when I'm working onsite or a project, I get up very early but I'm a very avid exerciser. So I usually am up about 3:45 and I'm exercising by about 4:15, and I really like to exercise before work. I actually get a lot of my creativity there. I do. I listen to podcasts when I'm doing stuff, I get a lot of great ideas. My team actually one time said, "You've got to stop running." Because I got on a running kick and I come into work going, "All right, I got it. This is it." Paul Casey: Something about the open road. Jennie Stults: I had a thought. So I have been accused of that. But, so I usually do that, and it's very good for me. It clears my head in the morning, it lets me focus. And I did start doing that similar to Scott because my kids were little, and that was the only time I had for a little bit of me time. And so but it does clear my head, and really get me focused and excited for the day. Paul Casey: It probably helps you avoid burnout too. Jennie Stults: It does. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my typical morning. Paul Casey: How did you both prioritize family time and yet still be high performers at work? I know the lines get blurred as you go through your career, but how did you make sure there was time for both? Scott Sax: I think the priest that married my wife and I said something to me when he was telling us how to be married, which I always thought was an interesting me for a priest to teach me how to be married. And I guess, but his explanation for that was, "I see all the problems when it's not working." Paul Casey: Oh, sure. Sure, sure. Yeah. Scott Sax Yeah. So I took his- Paul Casey: Research. Scott Sax: Exactly. But he said, "One thing you have to understand Scott..." and we had known each other for quite some time, "...is being a good father and being a good husband, one of your roles is being a provider and the way you're doing that. So providing and doing your work is a key responsibility for you as a family member." So that relieved a lot of guilt when you had to stay late or you missed a birthday, or you had to work on Christmas, or some of that stuff because that was part of my role as a dad and a husband is providing. And so, didn't relieve all of it. Okay? Scott Sax: I never missed my kids' sports and I was engaged with them in at least their goal setting of all their school. Their mom raised them. I have a amazing wife, and she did a lot of the different stuff to get them through their lives setting their goals and doing all that stuff. But I tried to never work on weekends. I tried to never take my phone out at a basketball game. And phones are detrimental to your family I believe. So putting your phones away and focused on conversation instead of texts, that is really important. So... Paul Casey: We'll tweet that. Phones are detrimental to your families. Scott Sax. Jennie Stults: So I have kind of a different thing because I had my first son when I was 23 I think, not quite 24. And so I've had a challenge of being a mom, and a single mom relatively when my kids were relatively young. And so it was a hard balance for me. I'm very open about talking about this because I think it is really important for people to know that some of us have tough barriers that way, and I never asked for anything special because of it, but it was a challenge. But I think that what I did myself is I looked for roles that I could do. So Scott talks about being the operations manager at PP and some of the other roles. I couldn't do those. It just wouldn't have worked with my family and my kids, that they needed me home at 5:00 so that I could take them to the sports and be there for the dinners. And we always had dinners together and everything. I just could not take some roles I would have liked to. Jennie Stults: But what I learned is that's okay. I had great roles. It just was different. So I think one thing I tell people when they come and ask me about advice for this, because they do know my story, is I tell them, "Look around and find the role that fits. Talk to your manager. Tell them your things, but tell him what you're willing to do." So me, I did a lot after my kids went to bed at 8:00, I'd log on the computer for an hour and a half and I'd work till 10:00 and catch up on those emails that Scott was doing at 5:00AM. I did them in 8:30 at night. Paul Casey: Sure. Jennie Stults: And I never missed deadlines. So sometimes I had to work Saturday nights when my kids were watching movies with their friends. I was working to get ahead. So I did what I needed to do, but I accepted the roles. And the other thing I did was, when I got asked to do some of these emergency roles, I would talk to the manager and say, "Look, I am a single mom. Here's my thing. But here's what I will do. I will work very hard. This is what I do, and I'll work with you." And after that, usually we can work something out. But you do have to realize I think when you do have family balance issues, but the other thing is it doesn't last forever. So my youngest just left for college. So I'm now free to go do whatever I want. And so, it's not permanent. You can work it out. So, I think people just need to try and learn that balance for them, whatever works for them. Paul Casey: Yeah. I love that. It's contentment with whatever situation you're in, and it's also being very clear with your boundaries, "Here's what I can do, here's what I can't do." And doing it with the utmost respect. Jennie Stults: Yeah, but you have to be prepared to work hard though if you do have some of those challenges. I mean I did when Saturday night and they had friends over eating pizza and everything, I would have loved to have just sat there and whatever. But, no. I was working. So it doesn't mean you don't have to work really hard, especially if I want to be a leader and go up. So... Paul Casey: Yeah. And if you want a special work arrangement, you got to almost work double hard to show that, "Hey, I'm on board." Jennie Stults: Yeah. Paul Casey: Well finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining new influence? Scott Sax: Well I think being a new leader, leading is different than doing, okay? And I think having a mentor to learn your leadership stuff is very important. Colin Powell's Rules on Leadership are really my Bible on leadership. And I know which leaders in my career gave me the most positive attributes to work on. I also know which ones gave me some of the negative attributes not to work on. And so I think get a philosophy that's not perfect, but you can sink your teeth into, and anchor yourself with that. And that's what Colin Powell did for me. Scott Sax: Second thing is I think always listen and learn. You talked about cross training at the beginning of this, and I think one thing cross training really does for you is it some people think that if you're cross training, you can do all of it, right? For me, cross training gave me the ability to notice when somebody was exceptional at it. So I just knew enough to watch somebody and say, "That's the person that needs to be doing this, not me. I just know enough to appreciate real quality." So listen, learn. When you're in doubt, go do something. Find something you can do that day to cause the project, the team, the company to move forward. That gets noticed. You might not think it's getting noticed, but it is getting noticed, and those people that are always causing stuff to happen seem to advance. So that's what I'd say. Cause things to happen, continue to learn, and listen. Find your own mentor. Paul Casey: Good stuff. Jennie Stults: So, I would want to echo what Scott says about finding a mentor, and I think you need to look around for mentors. I've had some mentors. I will tell you my best ones were not the ones that were like me at all, and they weren't necessarily even the ones that I said, "Oh, this needs to be my mentor." But looking back on it, I learned the most from them. So Scott is a great leader but someone who's a lot like Scott, might actually find a better mentor in someone who's totally not him. So I actually think personally, I learn the most from mentors and leaders who I wasn't drawn to, but they challenge me in a different way. I learn something from them. Maybe even appreciation for finding someone else who is like them to counter me. So I think that but there's a lot of great leaders at Hanford as elsewhere. You can find a leader to be with that isn't in your field. I think you can learn a lot. I've learned a lot from people that have nothing to do with Hanford, and really pushed me in different ways, opened my opportunities. Jennie Stults: Volunteer is another one that I like to do. I'm on a board, Scott is on boards. Personally I've got a lot out of that. You meet a lot of different kinds of leaders that way because they're usually from a whole different wide variety of industries and stuff. And usually that way you usually can find some passion about some things, and really get into things. And then the other advice that I found in my career for being a younger leader when I was younger, and then middle age, and starting to be older, is look around. And I've coached this lot for people when they've asked some tips for success is, look around for those items that are getting just dropped. They're just going anywhere. They're the thing on the schedule that keeps pushing to the right and whatever, the things that people just are not that excited about." And even if it's not your favorite, try and embrace that and go after that because that's usually the stuff that actually you can shine at. Because to Scott's point, they'll appreciate you. Jennie Stults: So for me, I went and did the Department of Ecology job and did the regulatory thing just as kind of so I could be at home at normal hours with my kids and have a normal 8:00 to 4:30 kind of job for a while when my kids were young. But it ended up leaning me to a lot of things, and so a lot of times I do a lot of the regulatory work because it wasn't as high a priority as some of the other work. And so it made me shine in my career in different things and take on some new projects. So, I think trying to look for some of those. And I don't know about you Scott, but I've seen a lot of people shine just picking up kind of the stuff that nobody is picking up, and then all of a sudden you're looking and you're, "Wow they took off. Look at that." Paul Casey: The team says, "Hurray." Jennie Stults: Yeah, exactly. Don't know how they made that happen, but great. Scott Sax: I agree. Paul Casey: Great stuff. Well how can our listeners best connect with you both? Scott Sax: Well I'm pretty good at responding to emails, and so my corporate email is scott.sax@amentum.com. And be happy to respond to an email. Paul Casey: Thank you. Jenny Stults: And so my email just like Scott is @amentum.com jennie.stults. And I also am on LinkedIn. So people can connect with me there. And then Scott did mention the brand new website that's going to be launching for his company. So you can probably catch him there too and find out how to get him there. Paul Casey: Cool. Well thanks for all you do to make the Tri-cities a great place, and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. From a gentleman I met last year at a National Speakers Association conference: Kevin McCarthy. He specializes in blind spots that leaders have. And you might say, "I don't have any." Well that's why it's called a blind spot. So you can go to www3.blindspot.com, and you can actually take a little survey, 14 quick questions to reveal your blind spots. It's a free assessment. It actually comes with an eight page PDF, and Kevin McCarthy is his name, blindspots.com. Paul Casey: Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guests today Jennie Stults and Scott Sax from Amentum for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road. To help me make a difference in your circle of influence. The secret to leadership is simple. Do what you believe in, paint a picture of the future, go there, people will follow. Until next time, KGF, Keep Growing Forward. Speaker 3: Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership, and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life, or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing. Paul Casey: Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.

Its back to business for Celtic and Room 1 on 1, and the hoops head to Tannadice to the Championship champions Dundee United.So Scott catches up with new guest, Rob McGlone and his unusal story of being a United fan.In a pod that looks back quite a bit, Rob talks about the glory days of years gone by and some of his heroes, before the lads break down last seasons successful promotion campaign.They break down the current united manager and squad before discussing the season so far for DU.Another wee look back at Celtic United matches of yesteryear, and they finish off by getting Robs hopes for the game and the season ahead.Enjoy

Its back to business for Celtic and Room 1 on 1, and the hoops head to Tannadice to the Championship champions Dundee United.So Scott catches up with new guest, Rob McGlone and his unusal story of being a United fan.In a pod that looks back quite a bit, Rob talks about the glory days of years gone by and some of his heroes, before the lads break down last seasons successful promotion campaign.They break down the current united manager and squad before discussing the season so far for DU.Another wee look back at Celtic United matches of yesteryear, and they finish off by getting Robs hopes for the game and the season ahead.Enjoy

Summary: In the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, we've experienced a major shift in the industry dynamics that will fundamentally alter the economics of the financial industry and require changes in how banks and credit unions interact with their customers moving forward. On this episode we will cover how best to  stabilize operations in order to take control of and execute your business continuity plan, establish a plan of action with vendors and partners, and continuously assessing your execution plans and operating through a hierarchy of monitoring  Resources: On-Demand Webinars Referenced in this Podcast: How to prepare your FI for a Post-Pandemic Marketplace Websites: COMMERCE NOW Podcast Diebold Nixdorf Advisory Services Guests/Host LinkedIn Profiles: Scott Harroff Scott Weston Simon Powley Jim Flannery Transcription: Scott Harroff:                     00:16                     Hello again. This is Scott Harroff, your host for this episode of COMMERCE NOW. In the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, we've experienced a major shift in the industry dynamics that will fundamentally alter the economics of the financial industry and require changes in how banks and credit unions interact with their customers moving forward. Throughout April, May and June, my colleagues, Simon Powley, Jim Flannery, and Scott Weston hosted a series of webinars to help keep you informed and provide guidance during these unprecedented times.                                                                                 Today, I'm happy to have everyone here together again to discuss how technology investments will provide adequate return on investment as operations begin to stabilize. There will be a few focal points we're going to discuss today. Stabilization of operations in order to take control of and execute your business continuity plan and adhere to realtime guidance from federal state and local government. Next, establishing a plan of action with vendors and partners to align new realities and test new solutions and new processes. And finally, continuously assessing your execution plans and operating through a hierarchy of monitoring an objective key result dashboards to ensure nimble execution and shift the conversation to focus more on the technology we are seeing.                                                                                 While banks have been journeying through the paths of branch transformation and self-service strategy, these journeys have been accelerated by the coronavirus pandemic. One of the most notable changes to combat the impact of COVID-19 has been the push to self-service and digital channels for communication and customer interaction. Today, as we look to the transition of a new normal, let's explore the question of what's next. With that, welcome Simon, Jim and Scott. Thank you for joining me today for this very important discussion. Scott Weston:                   02:00                     Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. Jim Flannery:                     02:02                     Thank you, Scott. It's good to be with us. Simon Powley:                  02:04                     Yeah. Great to be with you today. Thanks, Scott. Scott Harroff:                     02:07                     Simon, to give our listeners a little bit of background, could you please start off by telling our listeners a little more about the webinar series the team delivered earlier this year? Simon Powley:                  02:16                     Yeah. Thanks, Scott. It was great. It was really a three-part series that we developed as we saw kind of the implications and what was happening in the industries. One of the things that we at our advisory services group really are tasked with is keeping our customers up-to-date on changes that are relative to the marketplace, and obviously COVID had a lot of impact on those. And so we worked diligently and got some good information.                                                                                 The first one really was about the impacts of location-based delivery channels. So what was really happening out there and some of the unique solutions that FIs have put into action as a result of this with digital automation being at the forefront of it. And then finally, how things were changing very, very quickly with personalized experiences and what the impacts were to operational efficiencies given this unparalleled time.                                                                                 The second one, Scott led, and that was really about learning from the COVID-19 experiences. What were the various stages of recovery that were going on? What kind of things that they could mitigate, financial institutions could mitigate in the short-term and how to really plan for the duration of this recovery and a general banking or industry outlook of what we could tell was happening in real time as a result of COVID.                                                                                 And the third was, what were the new expectations of customers as a result of this? We saw digital transformation and digital adoption really skyrocket throughout this, due to customers being forced in some cases to digital channels, and how to really capitalize and operate efficiently as a result of that. And finally, adjusting those branch workflows and new traffic patterns based upon those customer needs, which allows changes in roadmaps.                                                                                 And finally, at the end of that, Jim really put together some ideas or suggestions of what kind of technologies we're seeing come out of COVID-19 and how to prioritize or look at those based upon our level of expertise. One of the things I think that was really interesting throughout this, as we got into the webinars, is we were very interactive with the customers and had a lot of polling questions to really gauge what was on the mind and to make sure that we were seeing the same thing that our customers were. That, as we had really good attendance, was a great time to do that.                                                                                 One of the questions that we intentionally delivered on all three of them to see the consistency in how things were changing over the course of the webinar series was, when do you anticipate your organization will resume business-as-usual operations? And you can tell it's somewhat ambiguous intentionally to allow that perspective. And then gave them a myriad of answers that they could choose from. The interesting thing with this was that, in every webinar overall, overwhelmingly I should say, the results were that they expected that within the next three months, they would be back to business as usual, which really puts us into late summer or early fall timeframe, which was surprising to us. Scott Harroff:                     05:11                     Thanks for that, Simon. But as I listened to the governor of Ohio and a bunch of other news media feeds, it seems like things aren't getting better. They might even be spiking a little bit. So how do you see things progressing given that? Simon Powley:                  05:28                     Yeah. Well, it's a great question. I think there's a lot of things that are changing. I mean, I think from a health perspective, we won't focus on that here today. I think we'll focus more on the industry perspective, but certainly we're beginning to see, and we covered this too at our webinar, that there could be what we consider to be a second wave, or this could have longer-term implications to financial institutions and certainly our economy overall.                                                                                 In terms of getting back to normal and that specific question, what we're seeing specifically is I would say we're getting into a new normal. I don't believe, I don't think the group believes that we'll ever go back to the way things were, the way that the customers' interactions were, the channels that customers were using at that time, specifically branches, those kinds of things. I don't know that it'll ever go back to, but we are already moving into what I think we'll see and evaluate as a new normal.                                                                                 And so banks are very flexible. I've been very proud of them in terms of managing their operations and changing things and adjusting their operations accordingly, and they are functioning. And so what we're seeing is banks are really still evaluating their networks. In some cases, branches have not reopened, and in some cases we're seeing reduced hours. In some cases they're operating with less staff. And certainly with social distancing guidelines it is changing the operational role of the branch in these cases, but they are operating, I guess, in more of a new normal. And we'll continue to see that play out here in the future, and maybe we can get Scott Weston to comment on that a little bit more as we get into today.                                                                                 We're still seeing corporate staffs largely working remotely and distancing. And so we're still seeing just a handful of people at what traditionally would be a headquarters with many, many people in many, many operating groups to do that. And we don't know when or if that will return back to normal. In many cases, large digital providers, such as Google or Microsoft or those companies, are already announcing that they will not go back until sometime in 2021, or in some cases I'm hearing will never go back to the way things were or leverage their headquarters the way that they have in the past. And so those are certainly very consistent with what we're seeing in banking.                                                                                 Digital channels are really being leveraged by both bankers and their customers to operate, again, normally, or to not disrupt their operational roles or the way that they're interacting with their banks. And so you're seeing that transition and continue to modify and change a little bit.                                                                                 Finally, mortgage operations, for example, are functioning normal. They're very, very busy right now, given this unparalleled interest rate environment and still extremely busy. However, the interactions are different in more of a new normal way. Things are much more virtual than they used to be. Whether that's face-to-face meetings on Zoom or via Skype or certainly leveraging the telephone or even mobile apps in a much more effective way to track the status of your loan to provide documentation as opposed to handwritten documentation or bringing in paper to a branch in the past.                                                                                 And so those kinds of things are all things that continue to evolve that are much different and much more utilized than they were even just a few months ago. Currently, what I'd say is transaction levels are beginning to return a bit to more normal things. So when I think about this, I don't know that it's going back to the way things were, but they are functioning and operating. Scott Harroff:                     08:59                     Simon, I agree with you completely. The financial institutions that I interact with and I do business with, I'm definitely seeing a push towards self-service and definitely seeing a push towards digital channels for communication. It seems to me like the old playbooks are sort of kind of out the window right now. So a question to the group, what are you individually seeing your financial institutions focusing on? Because it seems like everybody's playing a slightly different game now than they used to. Jim Flannery:                     09:28                     Well, I will say that the priorities for financial institutions are still very similar to what they were. They've just been accelerated. They're still trying to improve efficiency, obviously generate revenue and enhance the customer experience, but they're doing this in a slightly different way right now. So we all know that they're going to be under a lot of cost pressures over the next couple of years as they are today, and one way to drive cost out of the network is to optimize your branch and ATM network.                                                                                 And when I say optimize, that could be consolidations, which will drive a lot of cost out, but it's beyond that. It's also making sure that they're still holding to those trends and priorities, but they have to do that in a more efficient way. So by doing that, they can relocate branches. They can reformat their branch network to kind of fit the demographics of the market, to fit how their consumers are actually using their branch network and their other channels.                                                                                 And part of this could be to open up some off-premise ATMs. So we're working with a number of clients right now, helping them do this. We're helping them close permanently some of these branches that they've closed over the past couple months due to COVID. And now we're helping them work through one, which branches should they just keep closed permanently, two, what is the impact to their consumers going to be, their customers and their members? And three, how do they offset some of the capacity issues that might be prevalent after that consolidation? So those transactions that were going to that branch are going to go somewhere, right? So are they going to go to other branches, or are they going to go to self-service channels?                                                                                 So in a lot of cases, adding off-premise remote ATMs to kind of offset those attrition numbers is a much cheaper solution than just keeping that branch open. And then the cost savings that they're going to collect from or gain from those branch consolidations, now they can reinvest that back into the network. And they can focus on more deposit automation, teller automation, video, having channel marketing, core integration, things like that that will hold true to those trends and priorities of generating revenue, improving the customer experience and such. But they're doing it in a more analytical or strategic way than they were before. And end of the day, everything's net positive for not only themselves, the institution, but also the customers as well. Scott Weston:                   11:57                     Yeah. And if I can add something to that. I think there's still a lot of unknown out there. I think the shift of consumer behavior to a lot of FIs are seen as maybe temporary, but they're expecting at least a portion of consumers to return to the branch. So I think there is probably a little bit of hesitation in pulling the trigger on big closures, consolidations that I think a lot of analysts earlier predicted, right, where we could see mass branch closures. Obviously, the role of the branches is going to change. It's going to be more sales and more service-oriented, less transactional. And was Scott's point, being able to optimize that as a touch point, making sure that it's an [inaudible 00:12:37] that's positioned within that branch is there to optimize the space and provide as much free time, we'll call it, for the staff to do those more complex things.                                                                                 So I think there's still some learning that has to happen. I mean, I bet there's certain markets that haven't seen the bottom yet. As Simon mentioned earlier, we're starting to see some data anecdotally come in from our customers, and year over year, it's bouncing back. It's still probably 15 or 20% off of where it was this time last year. But as more of the economy opens up, as we get more optimistic about what's going to happen with the vaccine, clearly we're going to see a lot of people returning to the locations that they were traditionally using, but they may be using them in a different way. Simon Powley:                  13:20                     I think that's really important. Let me ask this. Because you're talking to these financial institutions about optimizing networks and changing other transactional mix and so forth. Are these new concepts for them? Are they brushing off things to say, "I've been thinking about getting rid of this branch for a long time" and they're finally doing it? Is it that they're completely reevaluating their branch network, where we've never thought about closing branch before? That was kind of a way that we really focused on for our clients, and now they're reevaluating? What are you really seeing when you're talking to these financial institutions about this? Jim Flannery:                     13:56                     Yeah, it's really a mixed bag actually. There's more smaller FIs, say 20 branches or less, that are now considering consolidating a branch or two where they typically would not have done that before. Because a lot of the community banks, they pride themselves on customer service, and the expense of having these branches open was just a cost of doing business. But now their business models are changing a little bit.                                                                                 They might not be under the cost pressures today, but they can see that coming down the road, and the only way that they can maintain that high-level customer service that they've had in their business model and still grow the business in terms of adding replacement customers or replacement members, they have to have a better technical offering, and they have to have a self-service offering. And the only way that they can do that is if they squeeze some costs out of the network and then reinvest those dollars.                                                                                 But I think the smaller FIs, this is a new concept for them. They have not typically done this before, so they are reaching out to us for help, and they want to make sure that they're doing this in a strategic way to minimize the impact to their customers and their business. Scott Harroff:                     15:17                     So question for you guys. We keep hearing on the news that folks are choosing to stay home. Folks are choosing to not maybe go to work and maybe take care of children that are now home that are not in school. How do you see staffing models maybe impacting branch operations? Maybe someone who would come in every day that worked a teller line or worked in an office. How do you see that changing the model? Jim Flannery:                     15:45                     Well, I think to begin with, for the most part, most branches are going to require less staff. So starting with the frontline folks, the ones that are interacting with the public on a daily basis, clearly, we saw that early on a hesitation to have too much interaction with people, and the ability to social distance was important. And I think one of the technologies that we've talked about a couple of times, video-enabled ATMs where you have a video teller on a terminal, I think it really has an interesting future for this. Because there's at least a couple of institutions that I talked to that are sincerely looking at how likely is it that we could have our tellers work truly remotely and when they mean remotely, from home.                                                                                 So instead of having them maybe coming to a call center or having some sort of centralized place where you have a bunch of people reporting to take these video interactions, you're actually looking at setting these folks up at home, having them essentially work from their home as a teller.                                                                                 So there's at least one institution that's doing this at a very small scale but has been getting some press, which I think is pretty interesting. But I wouldn't count that out as being at least on a lot of banks' radar. It's something that could be very flexible and something that they could spin up quickly if required and really offer that attended service that we know was lacking early on in the lockdown, the pandemic, and being able to really be at the forefront of offering a Class A customer experience. Scott Harroff:                     17:14                     Thanks very much for that, Jim. So Scott, how do you see the changing staffing dilemma impacting branch operations and technology usage? Scott Weston:                   17:23                     The changing staffing operation model in branches will absolutely affect the way people self serve, right? So as branches tend to have less staff inside and their staffing model is becoming more of a consultative experience, that in itself is going to drive more transactions out of the branch.                                                                                 So if we think of ourselves as customers and we're doing deposits, we're doing withdrawals, we're doing transactions that could be done in a self-service manner in the branch, eventually the staffing model will continue to say, "Well, did you know that you could do this at the ATM? Let me show you how." So eventually that's going to change consumer habit, right? So the more times consumers will use a self-service device, the more they're going to feel comfortable with it, doing it by themselves later on. Scott Harroff:                     18:21                     And one thing that we heard directly from an FI is that they're being very careful about how many people they're bringing back because they almost want to subtly discourage long lines at the teller. So they're trying to get people to maybe adopt more self-service because if they go on the teller line and have to wait more than a couple minutes, and they don't want to make it too easy for customers to do simple transactions at the teller. They want to really almost nudge them to self-service by making it slightly uncomfortable for them.                                                                                 So, I mean, it's not necessarily a strategy that a lot of banks are adopting, but I think you'll subtly see some FIs are, right? They're not overstaffing their teller line. They're certainly looking at what things the consumer is doing and looking at the cost of doing simple transactions, comparing it to what that cost would be at a direct channel and figuring there's a certain number of interactions that you just don't want to make it easy to happen at a person. Jim Flannery:                     19:19                     Yeah. I agree with you completely. I see people that I know that before would have walked into a branch once a week to go up to the teller to get their cash for buying groceries or doing other things, they are really thinking about, "Do I really want to get out of my car and put on a mask and go into that building and wait in line? Or huh, maybe I start using my drive-up ATM. Maybe I start using my phone." I am also seeing a lot of folks reconsidering what they used to do as customers and changing to something that maybe is a little bit risky for them. Simon, thoughts? Simon Powley:                  20:00                     Yeah. Well, I would agree. I take a little different angle on it. I agree with everything that you all are talking about, that we're talking about here today. The thing I think about is our financial institutions and especially those small to midsize financial institutions and how this really changes their customer journeys, their member journeys and the impact to their people.                                                                                 So from an HR perspective, training, onboarding, hiring the right talent all has to change because we still saw in many cases, traditional roles where we had tellers on a teller line. Whether we called them something or not, that was really their role, personal bankers, managers, those kinds of things. Now we're talking about much fewer staff. We have to talk about people that can be cross-trained to do multiple activities and handle things very differently, not just in the traditional sense of new account opening or getting someone to a loan specialist and handling transactions, but think about the digital capabilities that they now have to be subject matter experts on to be able to troubleshoot, help support and provide guidance on to customers, to show them how well this can be done to help protect them.                                                                                 And then also add on to that the COVID implications, how to socially distance and how to do those kind of things. So I think we've got to make sure that financial institutions, and what I'd recommend to our partners out there is, do not lose track of that. We've got to start with your people in terms of how they can drive that change and how they're molding to these operational efficiencies and changes that are happening in these journeys, both how the customers face and deal with those, but also the internal processes, how those are changing. So I think about it in terms of that as well. Scott Harroff:                     21:35                     Yeah, it's a delicate balance because you don't want to alienate good customers that have a preference for choice in how they interact, but at the same time, conscious of the broader whole of what the branch should be. Simon Powley:                  21:49                     All right, Mr. Harroff. One thing we haven't talked about, I think that's really important for us to consider is the security issues out there. You talked to us a lot about this internally. We should probably talk a little bit about what's going on out there from a security compliance standpoint. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Scott Harroff:                     22:06                     Yeah, sure, Simon. Happy to do that. There's a couple of things going on right now that are pretty relevant and relatively time sensitive. First, we saw the bad guys as the United States closed down, if you will. We saw a drop-off in bad guys out on the road and moving around and doing things at either point-of-sale terminals or ATMs. But as the United States opens back up again, what we're seeing from local law enforcement, state and federal law enforcement like the FBI and secret service, we're seeing the bad guys opening up their business as well. They're back out on their routes going up and down the East Coast and the West Coast, and Texas especially is having some challenges right now, especially in the Houston market. The bad guys are back at it as well.                                                                                 So as our financial institutions and our retailers consider how they're opening back up for business and considering how they're going to change their operations, I think now is a very good time for our financial institutions and retailers to sit down and say, "Okay, this is the security I used to have. Is this the security that I need going forward? Is my as-is environment really ready for the new to-be model? Should I be looking at what I'm doing and reaching out to an expert to consider what I should be doing differently, seeing what my peers might be doing differently and really building a roadmap for what I should be considering for security and fraud for the next six, 12 or 18 months?" That's one thing.                                                                                 And the second thing that we're also looking at is there's things that are happening right now that are pretty time sensitive. The migration to Windows 10, for example, is still ongoing. We're moving towards the end of the year where the Microsoft critical updates will be expiring in December. What's my thought on what I want to do after December of this year? If I still have an Optiva ATM, I have an old encrypting PIN Pad Version 5. That can only do Shaw 1 certificates. Should I be buying encrypting PIN Pad Version 7 so I could run Shaw 2? Have I had the conversation with my network to see if they support that? Have I reviewed what my network does for fraud?                                                                                 For example, we're seeing transaction reversal fraud coming up in the United States now where somebody will go to an ATM and they'll ask for $100, and the ATM dispenses $100. They take $80 out, and they leave a 20 there. The ATM retracts the cash, thinks that, okay, well, the customer must have driven off and not taken any of the cash. So it credits the account back immediately. Is my host really holding that debit transaction, if you will, so somebody goes to the ATM and verifies that I get $20 back or I get $100 back? So I really do think that now is a good time to reinvestigate my whole ecosystem around security and see it's what it should be in plans for the future. Jim Flannery:                     25:07                     Gentlemen, we've covered a lot of information, and we've given our listeners a lot of ideas to consider. And I really do appreciate your open and candid dialogue. We could go on with this conversation for quite a while, but I think this might be a good time to wrap it up unless somebody else has something to add. Simon Powley:                  25:24                     One of the things I'm interested, Jim, because I know our time is getting short here. You talked a lot about roadmaps. You talked a lot about the sequencing and what's the kind of technologies and put in there kind of your rating scale of what technology should be in there. And that's been really well received by our customers. What are you seeing changing from a roadmap perspective? I know we touched on video. Maybe you want to touch a little more on that. I think that's probably one. But who are you really seeing changing from roadmaps in the FIs that you're talking to? How are they changing things or what are the technology that they made moving up and prioritizing what they want? Jim Flannery:                     25:56                     Yeah. I think broadly you have to look at the shift in mentality on how they rationalize what to invest in. Historically, it's been all about payback ROI and what's the return. But as we moved through the COVID, what we found is that certain things took precedent, not because they had the best payback, but because they offered the greatest customer experience or offered the highest level of safety and security for both staff and consumers.                                                                                 So I think, first and foremost, I thought that was interesting. It was no longer about competing departments saying, "I want to do this. I want to do this. What's the cost? What's the benefit?" It became more of a, "What are some quick hits that we can do that are going to solve things now and then also set us up for future success?"                                                                                 So really, are there certain solutions that we can build off of in offering something now, but potentially make that into a greater part of our delivery strategy down the road. And I think we talked about some of those. I think the core integration, being able to utilize the ATM to directly tap into the accounts of the consumer and offer a broader range of transactions. That's something that you can do in pieces. You can start with some and add functionality as you go through it. Certainly video, and we talked about that a couple of times. That's one that we see.                                                                                 Well, and then the third one is really the marketing piece. We haven't really talked much about that. But this whole idea of using the ATM or self-service in general to do more of your communications. Historically, it's been primarily banners about products and rates, but really when you think about well, there's a big chunk of consumers that you're probably not seeing on a regular basis, they may not be engaged in mobile or web usage as a channel. So using the ATM to really communicate with those consumers, telling them what's happening as we move through things, what's the best channel to do certain interactions. There's a lot that you can really offer from that, that I think people take for granted. They assume that when we talk about the marketing communication on the ATM, it's all about product, pushing product when, in fact, it can be so much more than that. Scott Weston:                   28:04                     Well, Yeah, Jim, to build off that a little bit, I remember the conversation you and I had with that financial institution yesterday. One of our partners was they were actively involved as there was a line building at one of their locations, and they are actually out there troubleshooting and really interacting with their customers to figure out why are you waiting in line, right? What are the resistances that's making you actually want to stand here in this line under these circumstances to, in this case, cash a $54 check at the teller line? Can we move this to maybe taking a picture of this from a mobile deposit perspective? Can we get you cash back at the ATM of 40 to $60 that would cover that check?                                                                                 And that customer, as you recall, said, "No, I'm here. I've got my $54 check and I want $54." And so they're actively pursuing denomination selection as a result of that at their ATMs, because they're trying to solve for these kinds of nuances of how they can really help drive and adopt to that. So there is a lot of changes there, Jim. I think you're right. Scott Harroff:                     29:05                     With that, thanks again, Simon, Jim and Scott on behalf of all our listeners for joining us today. If you're interested in scheduling a conversation with anyone from the advisory services team, listeners, please visit dieboldnixdorf.com/advisoryservices or click on the link in the podcast show notes. Until next time, keep checking back on iTunes or however you listen to your podcasts for new topics on COMMERCE NOW.  

How To Be A Distinctive Speaker James Taylor interviews Scott McKain and they talked about how to be a Distinctive Speaker In today's episode Scott McKain talks about How To Be A Distinctive Speaker. Scott McKain is an acclaimed keynote speaker, best-selling author and globally recognized authority on how organizations and professionals create distinction to attract and retain customers — and stand out in a hyper-competitive marketplace. His client list includes some of the world's most distinctive companies – including Apple, SAP, Merrill Lynch, BMW, Cisco, and John Deere. Scott was inducted, along with Zig Ziglar, Seth Godin and Dale Carnegie, into the “Sales and Marketing Hall of Fame”. And after thousands of presentations in all 50 states and 23 countries, he was also honoured with membership in the “Professional Speakers Hall of Fame”. What we cover: How to be distinctive in a hyper-competitive marketplace Why every speaker needs to pay their dues The one question every speaker needs to ask themselves Resources: Scott Mckain Website Please SUBSCRIBE ►http://bit.ly/JTme-ytsub ♥️ Your Support Appreciated! If you enjoyed the show, please rate it on YouTube, iTunes or Stitcher and write a brief review. That would really help get the word out and raise the visibility of the Creative Life show. SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW Apple: http://bit.ly/TSL-apple Libsyn: http://bit.ly/TSL-libsyn Spotify: http://bit.ly/TSL-spotify Android: http://bit.ly/TSL-android Stitcher: http://bit.ly/TSL-stitcher CTA link: https://speakersu.com/the-speakers-life/ FOLLOW ME: Website: https://speakersu.com LinkedIn: http://bit.ly/JTme-linkedin Instagram: http://bit.ly/JTme-ig Twitter: http://bit.ly/JTme-twitter Facebook Group: http://bit.ly/IS-fbgroup Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/how-to-be-a-distinctive-speaker-sl072/ James Taylor Hi, it's James Taylor, founder of SpeakersU. Today's episode was first aired as part of International Speakers Summit the world's largest online event for professional speakers. And if you'd like to access the full video version, as well as in depth sessions with over 150 top speakers, then I've got a very special offer for you. Just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com, where you'll be able to register for a free pass for the summit. Yep, that's right 150 of the world's top speakers sharing their insights, strategies and tactics on how to launch grow and build a successful speaking business. So just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com but not before you listen to today's episode. Hey there, it's James Taylor and I'm delighted today to be joined by Scott McKain. Scott McKain is an acclaimed keynote speaker best selling author and globally recognized authority on how organizations and professionals create distinction to attract and retain customers and stand out in a hyper competitive marketplace. His client list includes some of the world's most distinctive companies, including Apple SAP, Merrill Lynch, BMW, Cisco and john deere. Scott was inducted along with Zig Ziglar Seth Godin and Dale Carnegie into the sales and marketing Hall of Fame. And after thousands of presentations over 50 states and 23 countries, he was also honored with membership into professional speakers Hall of Fame. And it's my great pleasure to have Scott join us today. So welcome, Scott. Scott McKain Yes, what a privilege. Gosh, I, I can hardly wait to hear what I have to say after that. That was extraordinary. I'm grateful. And thank you for allowing me to be a part of this. James Taylor So share with everyone what's going on in your world just now. Scott McKain Gosh, it's a busy time. I'm working on my next book, which will be we just signed the contract for it, in fact yesterday, and it'll be released at the end of this year. And the title of the book is iconic. How organizations and leaders attain lose and regain the ultimate level of distinction. So I'm really excited about that. I'm we're going back and forth and polishing the manuscript before publication, but really excited Time for that. And then I'm also out there speak it. I just got back from Australia and got the hit Oh, just traveling all the time doing what we do is speakers. So it's a, I'm very blessed. It's a very fortunate, fortunate set of circumstances for me. James Taylor So how did a young man from Indiana end up as one of the most top keynote speakers, but tell talk a little bit about what their journey was like? You Scott McKain know, it's funny, I was thinking last night, I was anticipating you might ask that question. And I was thinking last night on on, I'm 14 years old. I'm a freshman in high school. I'm part of a trip to a convention at Purdue University. And I'm literally on the back row of the first level of this auditorium. And they introduced an outside speaker. And I was moved not only by the message, I set there at 14 years old, and I still remember thinking that's the coolest thing in the world. It was the first time that I'd ever heard a professional speaker and I remember thinking not Not only was I moved by his message and impacted by what he had to say, but I also remember thinking, that would just be the coolest, coolest job in the world. But I'm a freshman High School, right? So I don't remember, other than other than prom and and then commencement. I don't remember a single night that went by, that I didn't take this little tape recorder and stand in my bedroom for all four years of high school and do two things. One is I would give a prepared speech and record it. And then I would stand and I would try to pick out something in my bedroom. And I would make myself give a two minute speech on something that I saw in the bedroom. In other words, could I give a two minute speech on a coat hanger? Could I give a two minute speech on a doorknob? Could I and it I wanted to practice being able to think of my feet to be able to stand and communicate and keep it going For that, for that period of time. Interestingly enough, the first speech contest I won was based on I looked down and saw a key ring and I made myself give a, a two minute speech on a key ring. And then I got the idea that leadership is not about being the biggest key. It's about being the ring that ties all of those unique keys together in a meaningful poll. And that was the first that was the topic of the of the first speech contest that I wanted when I was in high school. I got an opportunity to in high school when I was 14, the little local radio station offered me a job and people say, Oh, you've got a radio voice. That's why they did it. Well, no, I was 14. My you know, is you know what, when you're a guy and you're 14, your voice is all over the play, you know that but my dad owned the local grocery store and they thought if they hired his son, then dad would buy more commercials on the radio station rather than ads in the newspaper but, but I think it helped me train my voice because I was always trying to sound Unlike an adult, I was always as my voice was changed was always trying to drive my voice lower. And then with radio people say, Well Did that really helps you for speaking. The only thing that helps you speaking is when you click the mic on, you'd better have something to say. And so it helped me on my, but there's there was little in that that helped them in terms of speaking. I got involved in a student organization. In the United States, it's called FFA. At that time it stood for Future Farmers of America. It was an agriculturally related organization, not just for farmers, but for anyone involved in the industry of agribusiness. Today's just known as FFA, because it's not it's moved from production agriculture to the entire the entire field. But the crazy thing was, it's really a leadership development organization. And it It got me, you know, inspired by speaking contests and it got me speaking and I was elected State President, Indiana and then later a national Officer of FFA. So I took two years out of college to fulfill those responsibilities, which basically was traveling and speaking By the time I was 21, I had given a speech to the board of directors in general motors in the boardroom at the GM headquarters. I had met with the President of the United States in the Oval Office, I had spoken in front of 25,000 people, I had had those opportunities, but the time I was 21 but the other thing that happened was, is I would speak at these rural meetings in the United States. You know, somebody mom might be the local bank president or somebody dad might be involved with another civic organization. I'm speaking to the students, but the parents happen to be in the in the room and so somebody would come up and say, Hey, you know, our bank tellers need to hear that speech. Could you come into the bank and, and give that speech? And that's how I pay boy through college, was traveling all over the Midwest, you know, given given those speeches, and it was it the other thing was, it was it was the greatest learning laboratory you can imagine. Because when people say, Well, what does somebody 2223 years old have to say to business people, older adults. Well, what I did was kind of make a report of what I've learned from other business people. You know, here's, here's what I learned when we visited General Motors. And here's what if you're sincere people love to help. So what would happen is I'd give a speech at some small community and one of the entrepreneurs and say, hey, I've got an idea for you first, you know, so I'd write that down. Next speech, I'd relate their idea. Well, one of two things would happen James, either they'd write down the idea, the audience would write it down, oh, that's a good idea and write it up, or somebody would come up and say, I've got a better idea. Well, that so for the next decade, I'm I'm doing that, and it was the greatest learning laboratory you can imagine it didn't pay much James Taylor that what that what you just described is you and I were talking earlier about we're both drummers and that sounds very similar to I think a lot of my musician, friends and family members who paid their Jews. You know, you go and play all those club gigs. You know, there's like, three men and dug in there, and you're you're working on your craft and you're continually but you have, you have such a love, you know, passion for what you do that's taking you through all the time, you're continually working with people that are better than you, you're kind of learning from those and adding those new distinctions. Scott McKain So true. I gave 1003 speeches through through the student organization. But I mean, literally standing up at a banquet or standing up at a luncheon or doing a high school assembly you're doing, I gave 1000 free speeches before ever got paid. Now, I'm not encouraging anybody to go and do 1000 free speeches, but to support what you're saying, James enthusiastically. It is about paying your dues. And I think unfortunately, I have seen really good people try to move that process too quickly. And so they get booked for speeches before they're really ready. And this is a referral business to a great degree. It's certainly a reputation business and so they they intentionally damage the future of their career. Because they put themselves through great marketing. And through all of these other things we learned how to do as speakers. They put themselves in a position for which they're not ready. It's like, you know, if you're just learning the game of basketball, you don't want to be on an NBA court yet. Yeah, right. If I'm just learning the game of football, I shouldn't be on a premier league field yet. Because my skills not only are my skills not that proficient, it'll also really make me look bad. And with such a reputation business, you can't afford that. James Taylor And you want that kind of sustainability. I suppose. It's a little bit like a TV show like American Idol, for example, where you see young, really talented people, you know, they've got they've got that that core part of town and they get pushed onto these big stages. And very early on maybe before they've, they haven't Nestle, paid the dues, they haven't done all those little kind of club gigs to work up things. And the first time they're actually getting in front of people, it's in front of, like 20,000 people. And they're doing five nights in a row. And then there's something their voice goes because they haven't learned to look after the tone of their voice and things like that. Yeah. So so in this time you were kind of going through those those early stages and doing those first thousand talks. Were there any mentors that you had as a speaker, people that took you up under their wing, even maybe people you knew or maybe people you looked at from afar and you said, I want to be like that I can see that's who I I look to to train to attain that level of mastery. Scott McKain I want to share a couple quick stories. If I could. James, I was speaking at for the student organization FFA. I'll never forget in Illinois at the Fieldhouse for the University of Illinois, about 3000 students in the audience. And on the afternoon keynote, the keynote that night was a man named Grady Nutt and he was a humorous but yet a very serious in terms of he had a he had a great message you He his tumor as a vehicle for him. So he wasn't just a comedian. And I'd read about him and I wanted to see him. And he was speaking that night. So I speak that afternoon goes great. I hear him that night. And it was just the most amazing speech. In terms of audience, he blew the roof off the place. It was so incredible. And I walked up afterwards just to shake his hand and he sees me and he says, you need to be doing this for a living. And I, I was so enthralled with him. I do want familiar with it. He said, No, he said, I walked in this afternoon just to get a feel for the arena and the field for the crowd. And and I just walked in, nobody knew who I was, and they just introduced you. So I sat down in the back row, and I listened to your speech and he said, You ought to be doing this for a living. And then he said, and I will help. And as as Grady's career continued to grow, and audiences certain of his older audiences couldn't afford to have him back. Great. He would say, I've got this young guy, he's just getting started in speaking. But But He's really good. You ought to, you ought to book him. And so that's how part of my career got started was just the little audiences that couldn't afford radio more because he paid his dues, and he's working his way up and I'm, you know, I'm here. Tragically, Grady was killed in a plane crash coming home from a speech in 1982. But he was a great influence on my life. The other one that really inspired me. They brought me back to speak at this FFA convention 10 years after I had been a national officer, and my wife and I are checking in the hotel and the other speaker and there's 25,000 students in the audience for this event. And they just bring me back because I'm an alumnus, right. I'm a I've been at the been a part part of the program. So I'm checking it out and the other speaker is gonna be Zig Ziglar. And I can't wait to hear because I'd never heard Zig Ziglar person had every book at every everything and at the front desk, There was a note and it said, please call Mr. Ziegler's room had his room number, when you arrive he wants to see if you would like to go to dinner. And I joke I feel like a shortstop playing Little League that Derek Jeter wants to know if I want to go get a coke or something. I, I remember trembling when I when I called and he answered the phone and I said, you know, we'd love to my wife sweet, so, so just the three of us went to dinner zig and my late wife and I, and Zig sat there and he said, Scott, you know, I looked before the convention and he said, I didn't see your book. Where's your book? And I said, was a guy I've never written a book. And he said, Yeah, I haven't either. My wife and I kind of like look at each other because we've got, we got like, 10 on the shelf, right? We've got every Zig Ziglar book. He said, But you know what? Every morning I get up and and I write three pages. And after about six months, they tell me I've got a book. And then he just sat back and smiled and it was like the lightning Whatever top my head. And he said, I think that he said, I've looked and learned and I know your message. And he said, it's a really a good one. And he said, it needs to be in a book. He says, I bet your problem is is the problem I had, which is to write a book seems so challenging. It seems so overwhelming. Don't write a book, but write three pages and do that every day. And the next morning, I got up, I wrote three pages. And it's the first three pages of my first book all businesses show business and he James Taylor had so many great little I remember early and probably about 14 married about that time, going and driving to though heading to different places. And listening to his audio tapes. I'm going to give me a bunch of audio tapes. And he had that real he had that he had a certain kind of voice. And I'm guessing being from the UK, I'm guessing was very informed by the, the, you know, the church, that kind of pastors speaking there was a sudden lilt in a certain way that it can when you hear great, great preachers for example, it has That kind of feel to it. I just remember all these little things. I remember one of the ones he said, you know, get them laughing every seven minutes. You know, there was there's things like that. And there was there's lots of ways I think, Rory vaden, who we had as a guest on this as well, I know, was kind of in the same way that Grady took you under his his wing. I think that Rory was one of those people who went on to Zig under many I know there's many of people like that. And I was recently speaking with Dr. Shirley Davis and Les Brown was that person that took her under his wing. So that's that's it just we hear the story time and time again, you're the mentor and mentee and just kind of passing on to the onto the next generation. As you were going into this world was any advice you got? I mean, you speak about this idea of having distinction and we are in a super crowded world now it feels like with with speakers and speakers coming in all the time from different areas. How did you learn to To stand out what was your How did you in this kind of hyper competitive marketplace of speaking? How did you find a way to be distinct? Scott McKain It's a great question. It's, it's a, for the, for the first major part of my career. When someone said, What do you speak about? I'd usually say well, about an hour. What What do you want me to speak about time management? All right, I'll be so stressed to get that speech done. I'll have to learn it, you know, to give it I would go anywhere to talk about whatever you wanted. And what you got was based on my experience of giving a lot of speeches, you know, I, I was, I was a serviceable speaker with a very, very generic presentation. Which was good enough to get me booked and good enough to book a lot of speeches at an OK fee. And then I had to really pull back. Saturday, my first wife, Sherry, developed ovarian cancer. And we didn't have any kids and I'm a sole caregiver. And it was a very trying time. And after Sherry passed, I had to reboot my business. And this is a hard business to get into. It's a really hard business to get back into. It's it's difficult to position it's even more difficult to reposition, right? If I'm new in the market, then all I have to do is to get you to understand the best about me, and I'm positioned to reposition I've got to get you to forget what you knew and get you to start thinking something different so it's always more difficult to reposition. So I started calling the speakers bureaus that had booked me and I asked them, okay, when you recommend me to a client, what do you say? Which I think is what I look back now. stumbled onto that question, but I think it's one of the most critical questions that we can ask when you refer me. What What do you say about me? And the number one overwhelming answer was a really good speaker and a really nice guy. Well, don't get me wrong, I want to be, I want to be a really good speaker. I work really hard at being a really good speaker. I choose to be I want to be a nice guy. But there I can't picture the Vice President of Ford. When they're talking about the sales meeting coming up. I can't imagine that person saying, you know what we need this year. We need a really nice guy, though they say we want someone who will teach us about. So as silly as it sounds, James, I started saying I gotta figure out how to stand out and I started researching how did companies that were distinctive in the marketplace, what did they do, and executives that that had risen to the top as leaders as managers. What did they do? And were there any common threads that and all I was trying to do was to take my business to that level. And and as silly as this sounds I look back now. But I'm midway into my research and it was the blinding flash of the obvious that wait a minute if I really need this, how many other companies and managers and leaders and salespeople are out there that need the same thing? And so that was the genesis of the whole thing that created with distinction was and I realized along the way, too, it's not differentiation. I don't think different is better. Different is just different. If I slap every client in the face, I'm different. It doesn't mean they'll ever book me again. But they'll go and he's really different. Right? So it seemed to me that there was a level of sameness, which many speakers are what I was right in other words, I'm I'm just out there doing a good job. There's a lot of folks will do a good job. I hope you pick me. It also those are the ones that they're always saying, well, could you do it for a little bit less? Could you do it for, you know, we're having to negotiate fee, then you go to the next level, which is differentiation, there's something about them that's a little bit different, a little bit unique makes them stand out. But the higher level then becomes distinction. And distinction is where you are known for something to such a degree, that you are attracting business. Even as you pursue bookings, you're also attracting it. Because people are saying, oh, if we want to know about how to create distinction, this is the guy yeah, this is the person that owns that. And and that's the highest level. So that's where that all came from James, I was just trying to save my speaking business, and then realized if I needed this in my business, what were the what was the likelihood that other business professionals were looking for the same answer James Taylor that's almost like you think of you two iconic, iconic brands. Think of like Volvo safety owns a word and it is not it doesn't own four by four it doesn't own SUV owns he owns a feeling or or an emotion I think it's like Sally hogshead and fascinate sure she comedians that that word. So you were actually building up the ownership almost ownership or distinction. So as that word got talked about more and more and more because of you, and maybe not because of you, it was you were you were there. You thought you were kind of able to kind of go on that tide the whole time. ride the wave. Yeah, Scott McKain exactly. Exactly. And and so then what happens? And it's kind of interesting, because it's part of what I wrote about in the first book on distinction when there wasn't anything out there on it really is that then the next wave becomes copycat competition. And now you go online and you see everybody talking about how to stand out and it's hard to stand out. What you're talking about is how to stand Right. But the other thing and that and that's where the new book is leading, is that people would come up and they go, Okay, so people really done once you talk about so now, Samsung than in the original book was part of that sameness now has risen up to the point of differentiation, maybe distinction. So if if Samsung is distinctive, whereas apple. So there had to be something beyond distinction. And that's where the new book is going with iconic, is that distinctive means you're at the top in your particular market segment. But iconic brands are ones that are talked about, you know, if we're talking about how you run a retail store, we're going to be talking about Apple regardless of the way it goes beyond their specific industry. You know what I mean, if they become cultural icons, not just the predominant provider, in their respective industry? Yeah. James Taylor And I'm thinking that, I guess also that helps on the referral party. You mentioned earlier because it makes the referral bit so much easier. Because you're not you're not in a world of just like lots of other things if if someone mentions that I need a someone talk about come and talk about distinction, or I need I'm thinking about someone like how to be a remarkable brand I think like Seth Godin like remarkable you know, the certain kind of words that that you can you can think of other other things that we can be doing as speakers to realize that, you know, this is this is an industry of referrals from other speakers from bureaus from people that hear you and see you on stage is anything that we can be doing to to kind of help that process that we are being that person is preferred. Scott McKain One thing that we've learned and we've we've used fortunately very successfully, James is really, really important question. And it's, it's drilling deeper with the clients that you already have. And in the fundamental question that you ask yourself is this who is my clients customer How can I help my clients serve their customers? I'll give you an example. I'm speaking for Bridgestone tires, big meeting for Bridgestone tires. And it went great, great crowd, great group. And so I basically asked myself, our office and our team asked the question, so who's their customer? Well, our first response obviously would be Oh, it's anybody that buys tires, but that's not really it, because it's the dealers that sell the Bridgestone tires to their customers and the dealers that have bridgestones and michelins and good years and Yokohama has and all of those Okay, so how does Bridgestone gain greater mindshare with those dealers that are their customers. So we went to them and made a proposal and we said, just as you had this meeting, every one of the dealers that are selling your tires have a meeting. What if You've sponsored me to be the keynote speaker for that meeting, you could get up and introduce me get your time in front of all the sales people. Look, they're going to ask you to sponsor a cocktail reception or something anyway, so it's in your budget, but sponsor me as the keynote speaker for all of those events. And we booked 15 more full fee dates with them as a result of just that question, and then I did all of those, well, then all of those dealers then have a need for training programs, they have a need for some kind of follow up. So with with several of them, I've done additional work then for those dealers that they paid for, because they didn't want to be beholden to just one company. So it probably ended up being 23 to 25 programs at a significant fee. Just from that, and I can give you several other examples. We did that with Cisco. We did that with Juniper Networks. We've done that with SAP You know, with with other companies with Apple, James Taylor so that's almost like going going, you know, we often are taught to think of what is the transformation that you want to have in the organization you're going to speak for. But this is actually going one step further. This is saying what is the transformation that you want to have in the lives and the organization's of the other customers of your of the people that you're going to speak? So going that level? And I guess, because then you speak your topics around is brand marketing as well. That's the kind of thing that is to em problem for every Vice President of Marketing Director, man, they're continually thinking that question is that continually thinking of the customers challenges that is, that is their life. And so if you're coming along, saying, actually, I have something that's not only going to help elevate your brand amongst those those customers, but it's going to help them solve some of the deeper challenges in their organizations and you know that that's a total Win, win win Scott McKain in See, I think many times and we'd Seek referrals, right? That's just part of the process. Regardless of where you are in your career, you still want people to refer you so we try to be easily referral. I'll talk more about that in a second. But, but what I realized was if I asked the CEO of Bridgestone to refer me, first of all, who's going to refer me to that, that might be limited, he's sure not gonna refer me to his competitors. He's certainly not going to refer me to so he might have referred me to some of these other tire dealers, but to formalize the process means now instead of maybe booking one or two or three that he had referred me to, now, all of a sudden, I've got 20 you know, programs. Yeah. And, and I'm, and I've also now I'm a resource for them, because when they get great feedback from their customers, what do they want to do? So they booked me two or three more times. I didn't include that number, right. Hey, Scott's done such a good job in it. You know, A lot of times to the referrals that we can get our internal within the organization, we tend to think of external, but but with a with an insurance company, for example, if I do all the agents, why don't they refer me to the internal meetings that they have of their wholesalers? Yeah. So we referrals can be. The best referrals to me are drilling deeper within the clients that we already have, and finding additional ways to serve them, rather than thinking and that's, that's part of what you know, I preached in the speeches as well, is that we've got to find ways to transcend transaction. And many times as speakers were looking for a booking of that speech, and I've noticed the more that I try to help clients the more speeches I end up booking the more that for example, Bridgestone It was about how do you leverage your budget. You're already being asked to buy the cocktail hour or sponsor one of the meals. You're going to spend the money anyway. This is a more memorable way for you to take that investment of your budget and really make an impact. So those are the things that when we start looking for how to be of help. One of the things in my early early days of speaking a guy named Joe Charbonneau, the late Joe Charbonneau at Dallas, Texas, had so many things he did the two things that Joe said, he said, Get a legal pad, put it on the phone, draw a line, divide it in half. Every time somebody calls about a speech, put a checkmark every time somebody calls about help put a checkmark in the other column. When you have more checkmarks of people calling you for help than calling to book a speech. That's when you know you have viability in this business. Because they look at you as a resource, rather than as a vendor. Yeah. And I love that James Taylor I guess I guess that's that's that's obviously we're busy, you know, corporates going in general as it used to supplier relationships is not transactional systems it's building those relationships and you almost I mean I think some of the best products and almost kind of don't know where one company starts and the other one and it's these close relationship and as we're going to start to move I want to get to some real quick fire questions here we Scott is there a what's in your speaker bag? well isn't that a bag that you carry with you to all of your your speaking gigs you never leave the home in your office without Scott McKain I was with my wife Tammy was here to hear that because she's like he has more junk it is bad. I am a muck what I call this the I love technology. I carry my laptop. I carry an iPad, I carry a Kindle. I carry all of the dongles the attachments. I bought a let me about a roll over here and get it I bought the this is the slide clicker. I carry with me everywhere. With me This is the best slide advancer that you can that you can possibly get it a lot of speakers they'll handle this at the event of perfect cue when you carry your own and and the AV crew sees that you carry your own even if you don't use it they know they're dealing with a pro yeah and and it no matter the circumstance no matter the situation that is in and you can find that online at and I'm I'm not a compensated endorser, I just think it's the best thing going just all of that I carry all the you know the I carry I carry a multiple outlet you know plug so because so many times hotel rooms don't have enough outlets for everything. And so that's everything is on my Kindle. I carry a cannon on that one on the James Taylor on the power of having the extension. If you want to like make friends very quickly airports be that person that has Scott McKain Idea point. Oh yeah, cuz now we're by plugin that I carry this camera. It's a Canon g7 x. And I carry this with me everywhere because it's just absolutely fantastic to do a video blog or, or whatever. So I will get a little selfie stick and this camera. And after the event I'll just shoot a little video saying, Hi, Scott, it was great to be with you at the XYZ Corporation event, I'm just leaving the hotel or I might be in the cab, I'm in the cab. But man, I'm still on a high from what a great experience that we had. So let me remind you, of these three points. We talked about your event, ABC. So then we send that to the client afterwards and say how would you you know if you'd like would you like to distribute this. So then they send that as a post event follow up to remind everybody which then keeps me front of mine. One of the things I've written about in every book is my belief that mind share proceeds market share. Every business that I work with wants to grow their market share, it's the wrong place to start as a speaker, it's the wrong place to start. People aren't booking you if they're not thinking about you. So your key is how do you create innovative ways to stay front of mind for them and, and so anything that you can do to shoot a video that says thanks that they distribute is is critical and and, and we'll do that. So I carry a bunch of stuff. I carry a digital recorder with me as well just to make certain the sound is perfect. The other thing is, and this is a great one, it's a zoom f1 field recorder. And so I can pin the lapel mic on one on one lapel as they pin the other one for the speech. And now I have a perfect digital copy of my speech. I do that for two reasons. One is to edit to us on things that we might be, you know doing in the future. But the other thing is to get it transcribed. Because if you want to scare yourself to death, get a transcription of your speech and the imprecision of the language that we use on the platform. And so part of what I'm trying to do is to get better with my language, get better with my descriptions and be more precise, because every word matters when we're on the platform. So James Taylor long answer that question, but I was I was talking to guests recently that on that precision point, I was thinking I was talking to one of our other guests who works with helpings because with this speech, especially non native speakers, and should we have to remember now is 95% of business conversations are happening in English, are between at least one of those people is not a native English speaker. So most business conversations are going on and not with native English speakers. So you have to be clear, there has to be a real sense of clarity in what you're seeing that makes total sense to be able to kind of go through those as well. Scott McKain Oh, and you bring up some Important point, James. Because as your career grows, and you start doing more international programs, you know, the easiest, the quickest example is I tell a story about a taxi driver. And when I'm telling the story in the States, he, he gets my luggage and puts it in the trunk of the car. Well, if I'm speaking where you are, it's, it's the boot. And so you don't get in line you get in the queue. Part of what we have to do as speakers is to make certain that we're using the terminology. Even the slang I know, many times those of us in the States, you know, we'll talk about knocking it out of the park. Well, there's a lot of parts of the world that have no idea that that's a baseball term, you know, hitting a home run, well, that speech was a home run. Well, that may not be the most appropriate expression in other places. So there's so many if you can put a fine point on that the the audience, almost subconscious picks up yeah, that you're using their terminology not your own. James Taylor And what about book is the one book that you would recommend that people check out could be on the crafter speaking it could be on the on the business side of speaking or something that just more generally is going to help them understand this this this, this took us home in terms of distinction. Scott McKain So many of my friends have written so many great books, it's it's it's hard to know, you know which which ones to recommend, but let me share two with you real quickly. One is my buddy Joe Callaway. And his book is be the best at what matters most. And I think many times as speakers there are so many things that we can be doing that we end up chasing a lot of different opportunities. What really the client is looking for is us to be the best to what really matters most. And it's just brilliantly done. And then Phil Jones has a book called exactly what to say. And we've been working on this and applying this and it is absolute Li fascinating how just changing a few words could dramatically improve your ability to, to communicate. For example, one of the things that a quick one he says is, you should say, Now I want you to be open minded. And the reason that you say that is because no one wants to be perceived as closed minded. Right? So you have by saying that you've predisposed the listener to agree with what you're saying, because the subliminal message almost is, if you object to it, it's not because it's wrong. It's because you are close minded. Right? James Taylor I think Phil did a good job with that distinction there. Because actually, the shape and the size of that book and the way that book is branded is I think it's a very good example of distinction standing out I can, I can see that book. I've had that book, and I can have it sitting in the cross in the room and I know it's his book because it also released his website and it's got visiting Tegrity Dan is going on? Scott McKain Absolutely, absolutely. And that's you mentioned a hugely important word, James, that the integrity with all of your materials, and the congruency so that the website looks like the book looks like the visuals looks like. So there's that. And that's, that's branding 101. But yet again, we as speakers, that's part of what's so hard about this business is that, you know, we want to get to a high level, you're dealing with high level companies, but yet you you don't have the resources that they have in terms of design and branding, and, and just number of people. I've got to go give a speech on Sunday, plus, I got to finish the book, plus, I got to look at website proposals plus i got, you know, and we're always juggling. And many times when that happens, it removes the consistency and the congruency. And it's unintentional, we don't even realize it. It's happening. James Taylor And is there an online tool that you find really useful for yourself as a speaker or an app that you find you using all the time as a speaker? Scott McKain Well, I need to find some more I keep I keep looking for, you know, for something better. But one of the ones that we use all the time is called close clo z. And it's an app on the iPhone and an app online. It's a relationship management app. But part of what I like about it, is it how you can also do email through it. It's calendar, it's scheduling, but it also does email and it will notify you when someone has read the email that you sent. So part of what I love about that is if if I send an email to somebody, and I know that they've read it, from a timing standpoint, I might wait 15 or 20 minutes, and then I call them yeah, and typically the response is, oh my gosh, I was just thinking about you. No kidding. Wow, great. Well, that's it. So it's clo z great. I want to use it our office in like the whole lot James Taylor and kind of final question for I want you to Imagine you woke up tomorrow morning and you had to start from scratch. So I'm gonna let you position yourself any way you want in the world of Las Vegas, any city you'd like. But you have all the skills you've acquired over the years, but you know, no one, no one knows you. What would you do? How would you restart your speaking, Scott McKain I'd write the book. The biggest mistake I've made in my speaking career was I was a speaker for 1012 years and didn't write a book. And so when books came into the market, matter of fact, there was one book that came into the market. It was somebody I know was in one of my speeches, and we'll talk about how and then he wrote a book about what I haven't been talking about that particular time. And I know that they were on a similar track, so I'm not saying it, but, but had I written the book and got it out. When I first started talking about this, it would have predated that book by by yours, but I gave the speech I didn't write the book and to several things that when you write the book, the book is key to success. publishing your authority in the marketplace on that subject matter. Secondly is the book is the best business card you could ever possibly have. With third and the unintended consequences, it improves the precision of your thinking. If I'm standing in front of a group, I can read their eyes if I'm coming, if they're getting what I'm talking about or not. If I since they're not getting it, I can do another story. I can use another example or I can pull questions from the audience. The book, I don't get a second chance. And so the language in your thinking, has to be more precise, has to be sharper. And writing the book was such a great mental exercise to get my content better. That for all of those reasons, the first thing I would do, because part of your your, your question evolved, I still have the knowledge of the subject matter. The first thing I would do is write the book. James Taylor Well, Scott, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today. Thank you so much for coming on. We could have talked to talk because you just so wealth of knowledge in this you and you have certainly paid your dues in this business. So Scott, thank you so much for coming on. I look forward to hearing you speak on stage soon. Scott McKain James I look forward to it. It's been a real privilege and pleasure See you again soon. Thanks. Today's episode James Taylor Today's episode was sponsored by speakers you the online community for speakers and if you're serious about your speaking career then you can join us because you membership program. I'll speak as you members receive private one on one coaching with me hundreds of hours of training content access to a global community to help them launch and build a profitable business around their speaking message and expertise. So just head over to SpeakersU.com to learn more. #speakersU #speakerslife

Scott Krone Mr. Krone is a Chicago native whose career in architecture began in 1991 by pursuing his Masters of Architecture from the Illinois Institute of Technology.  While obtaining his degree, he also worked as a Project Manager for Optima, Inc.  During his time at Optima, Krone's responsibilities included such notable projects as the 400 unit Cormandel in Deerfield, IL, the 40 unit HedgeRow in Winnetka, IL, and the 51 unit Optima Center Wilmette in Wilmette, IL. In 2012, Krone founded Coda Management Group – a firm who specializes in managing real estate assets.  Since its inception, Coda has manages a wide range of real estate including single and multi-family homes, retail, commercial warehouse and self-storage and multi-use flex athletic spaces.  Currently, the platform of investments is in excess of $55 million. In 1998, Krone founded Coda, an award winning Design + Build | Sustainability | Consulting firm.  Since its inception, Coda has won numerous design/build awards including the international Green GOOD Design Award in 2010, Best of Houzz 2014 and 2015, and Design Evanston Award.  Their work has been featured in notable publications as Dream Homes - Chicago, Midwest Luxury Homes, Crate & Barrel 2010 Best Catalogs, NBC TV Show Taste, and national ACE Hardware Commercials.   In addition, Krone has authored High Performance Homes – Navigating the Green Road to Your Dream Home, a book for homeowner's seeking to incorporate green technology into their home. Krone resides in Wilmette, IL, with his wife and three children. hank you so much for listening! WE ARE SO GRATEFUL!!!! Our Sponsor:  Multifamily Foundation If you are serious about learning how to buy apartment buildings then don't wait, go to www.multifamilyfoundation.com and let us help you build your foundation. Investing for Lifestyle and Legacy: https://www.yarusiholdings.com/ Our ENTIRE Podcast, Books and Health Suggestions: https://www.amazon.com/shop/yarusiholdings Subscribe To Us On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1SuXB01d14DC8ZnEWpRQdQ?sub_confi rmation=1 Subscribe To Us on #Libsyn: http://multifamilyfoundation.libsyn.com/website Subscribe To Us on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-multifamily-foundation/id1484177595 Transcription:  Hello, again, welcome back to the Jason and Pili project. Super excited for today's show. Really going to talk about some topics that are really viable to what's actually happened today. A space that's super great for everything that's happening during Covid. If you listened to that time, when you have Scotty Krone on the show.   Hey Scott, how you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for having us. I appreciate the opportunity. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and a little bit more about Scott. He's. The founder of Coda Management Group, teamed up with investors to purchase strategically located undervalued warehouse space and convert it into climate controlled self storage facilities that are managed by a top three operator. So a little bit more, he's done 47 syndications over 400,000 square feet of property, 2,759 storage units currently under management and 25 years to develop and design build experience. So Scott, thanks so much for coming on. I see that you are actually converting warehouse space into climate control itself storage. Was that intended or was there a certain time when you were doing these syndications and it looks like you were in residential and a couple other points where this just fell into your lap and you, and you did it without knowing really the after effect and all of a sudden it became your business plan.   Uh, it's something that's certainly developed. I began in multifamily and that's predominantly where the syndication began when I was working for other people. And, um, you know, the first project, which was my master's was a 400 unit, all Thai multi D uh, family development. So we had condominiums, we had townhomes, we had single family homes and it was on 50 acres and it was a, it was a ground up development. And I worked for them for six years and, you know, each, each and every one that we did was along those lines. And so when I started Coda, we began in single family and then we got into multifamily, got into mixed use. Um, we were also have done five churches we've, um, just on a lot of different things. And then the crash came in 2008 and 2009. And that whole market on the residential side completely dried up and everyone was going into apartments.   And because that's the only thing that banks were lending out at that point in time, whereas we're apartments, we did buy some apartments and, but there was a tremendous cap compression and it was very competitive. And so we had one client who wanted us to find him a distressed self storage facility. And I couldn't find it. I was looking all over and nothing was quote unquote distressed. And this is like in the heart of the, the, you know, the, the previous recession. And there was absolutely nothing that was truly fit the qualifications and distress. And I was like, this is an amazing product. And that's where I began learning about it. And we actually had a warehouse where we were going to convert it into another use for our client. And we officially got the nonverbal verbal approval from a mayor. And then three months later she had a change of heart.   And, um, so now we were hard on a contract, had this warehouse and I called up my client and said, you know, if you really want to get into self storage and make money development is the way to do it rather than trying to retrade on, you know, moving from a nine cap to an eight and a half cap. You're not going to see a lot of appreciation there. If I said, you know, we have this warehouse, let us know if you think it's a good location. If it fits the economics of what you're trying to do. And they came and looked at it, they said it meets all the things that we need. We need it to be, but we don't have anybody to develop it for us. So we did that, and that was our, that's how we got into self storage.   Wow. So the lots that we could unravel there, and if you look at that today, what makes the conversion process that much more buyable than the ground up in terms of being able to maximize space? Is there a certain size of product that you have to be into to make this make sense? Is there a certain number of units that you have to get out of? It is there, and is it location savvy compared to, you know, being close to the city or being out in the suburbs that you're trying to focus on?   Well, it's very location specific. It's within a three mile radius. That's, that's what we're looking for. So when we're converting, we're looking at class a, so within class a, um, that is the type of thing that is conducive to more of an urban setting. Um, one, because that's, you have density too, you have a larger building. Um, I haven't seen any conversions in a rural or suburban market for a class, a type facility. So it's predominantly only in urban areas that we're doing this. So we're, we're focusing on the Midwest. So we have Wisconsin, Illinois, um, Ohio, and we just went to contract on one in Kentucky. So that's the market that we're focusing on. And because there's, there's unmet demand in those markets, that's why we're going after these products, after these buildings. And the reason why we're doing conversions is one we're buying these buildings somewhere between like 11 and $13 a square foot.   So the replacement costs, I can't buy the property and build these buildings for that price. Um, the other thing is they, the buildings that we have been buying lend themselves well to the layout of self storage. So they're predominantly rectangular in nature, a very common column line. Um, the one that we bought in Dayton did not lend itself to multifamily, which is why it was not converted. If the building was sitting vacant, we came in, we had the zoning, as of right, we had an existing building. And so to buy the land, have the building and have the zoning, um, for, you know, these for $11 a square foot, it's a no brainer for us at that point in time.   Yeah, absolutely. And so is there a size of building that you're always looking for, that you won't look for something smaller than X number of square feet or a certain number of units to get out of the space?   Yeah, we're, we're looking between like, you know, 8,200 and 1,000 and 20,000 square feet. The building that we bought, we haven't bought yet. So the building that we're under contract for in Lowville is actually close to 140,000 square feet. The market does not demand 140,000 square feet of self storage, but there's existing tenants. And so we have a rent roll already. So we're going to have a combination of flex warehouse space and then also self storage. And so we're going to be converting a portion of the building into self storage and then   Maintaining the existing tenants. Okay. What are some of the metrics that you're looking forward to, to show that the market is, um, not meeting demand?   Well, first we look at is the population growing or is it decreasing what is happening with it? So in each of the buildings that we bought, so the last three Toledo date, and now the one we're under contract for it in Louisville, we're seeing a tremendous amount of development right around what's going on, so that that's always encouraging to us. So there's like 3,500 rental units coming online and local, right. Within two miles of our building. So for those of the site, I should say, so that's, that's exciting for us that we're seeing continued growth in there. The second thing that we're looking for is what is the market saturation? How much lockers per square foot per capita is in the marketplace in context of the overall. And then we look at, is there unmet demand? And so in each of those cases, you know, the PR our competition is like 90% leased up.   We're well below the saturation level for our product type. And then we look at pricing and, you know, are they getting good, strong pricing and what's been happening with the pricing. So that's one of the things that we've really like about self-storage compared to when I was in multifamily, when I was working for a top 20 developer in the country, you know, there wasn't feasibility studies out there. It was just like, if you build it, they will come. Right. And, you know, we're doing a lot more due diligence now than what I was doing when I first started. I mean, we were doing, it was a hundred million dollar project, you know, it was like three or 400 units. I mean, that's a tremendous amount of change to a community, right. And we didn't have a feasibility study to say like, is there going to be a demand for 400 people to come in and buy these condominiums anywhere from 100,000 to half a million dollars? Wow. You know, and so, you know, for, for us, we have a market study that says, is someone going to rent a locker for a hundred dollars? Or, you know, is it, are they going to rent it for $25? So we know exactly what the market is going into the product.   So thinking about what's happened today with COVID, you're where you're going to see a lot of space open up within, you know, retail and some of these other places to have, unfortunately, just aren't going to have the power to come back, potentially, maybe warehouse stay strong. You know, we started seeing a lot of, uh, shipping, maybe some, some, some of business come back, you know, from overseas that, that start being made here for certain reasons. Do you, are you, is this, now, is this making you bullish again on the industry? Cause there's going to be more opportunities that you could find space in predominantly maybe areas that were oversaturated with retail and office space that maybe you can use for this conversion process.   Well, there's two points to that. The first is, you know, we've studied the last four recessions and based upon the gray hair that I have, you know, that I've been through a couple of these recessions before. So, um, maybe that's wisdom, maybe it's, I don't know, old age, I'm like, my kids tend to say it's moral day than wisdom, but yeah. Yeah. We've, we've gone back and looked at the recessions in the past and, and each of the recession's self storage has either held or gone down like one or 2% and then rebounded very quickly. So they're not recessionary proof, but they're certainly recessionary resistant. So they they're, they're holding their market. In fact, the greatest, the lowest cap compression that we saw was when extra space bought up a portfolio of a billion dollars and it was at a four and a half cap, and that was at the last recession.   So they do well in a downturn, which is why we've gotten, we were bullish on self storage before the recession because of the fact of how they resist the, the re they're not as, you know, they don't vary as much within the recessionary market as other products. Um, people would argue that multifamily that they're expecting to surge within multifamily. I don't know. It's all gonna depend upon what the lending capacity is going to be. Certainly hospitality, retail. It's no, it's a no brainer. These things I've been hit and hit hard. So there is going to be a change. What we did see in the last recession is to the communities that needed something to be built, were willing to rezone the communities that we're not, we're going to hold fast to the fact that they weren't going to change the zoning. So there could be a big box that would be prime for self storage, but if we can't get the zoning, then it's not, it's not going to happen. And that's where you will see the pressure, you know, because obviously the is losing tax dollars tax revenue, but they want the sales tax in self storage or not, there's very little sales tax. So they want to keep those products on there. And who knows what if communities are gonna allow it to be rezoned to self storage.   Interesting. Yeah, that's actually a great point. Right? So if the community is looking to find out where to come back, they're going to push out across cause really the tax dollars that makes up what's happening in the, in the, in the area. Is there a reason that you focus a lot on middle, middle America States and you know, w we invest in so many States, you know, we're in Louisville is in terms of, um, focusing on some of the other States that might have a, um, a bigger flight to them, like the, the Florida's or the North Carolina or South Carolina. Is there a reason that you, you stay location specific in the States that around you,   There is. I mean, it's, it's, it's based on saturation. We've had plenty of people call us up and say, Hey, I want to do self storage in my town. There's no self storage. And I'll ask them where they live and I type it in, and there's like 18 facilities, like within two miles of where they live and, you know, they're, they're oblivious to it, right? So along the East coast, the South, the West coast, the saturation is that it, you know, we're supply equals demand is typically around seven square feet per locker. And the salvage is actually nine because of the fact that there's so much self storage and there's so much demand. So we have avoided those areas because the competition is incredible. But more importantly, if we can go into a market, you know, date and check the one, we just, we just opened up in Chicago when we bought it, it was two.   So there's plenty of, there's plenty of demand that we can meet. Um, each of the ones that we bought Toledo, Dayton and Louisville have all been under four. So there'll be between two and three and a half. And so we know that there's, there's a lot of margin for us to meet in there. Wow. Interesting. When you're doing your build out, do you look at a certain per square foot number that you have to come in for your construction costs to make this, or is there, is there a range or how do you look at it from that site? And that has a lot to do with the condition of the building, and then we back into what we can pay for it. So the building in Lowville that we're under contract for, it is very aggressive pricing because of the fact we have to do so much for, to the building.   We're actually going to be spending a lot more per square foot on Louisville than the other buildings. Um, just because of the fact that we have mixed use and it is larger. So we, we always base the purchase price based upon what it's going to cost to get us to the place where we need to break even and make money. Was there a pinnacle point here? You talked a little bit about, you know, moving on from, multi-family just completely shutting off the point. Um, but was there a pinnacle moment or something that you, you talked about, the conversion that you had with, uh, the partner or the person who was looking for space, um, was there a moment that you said I will no longer do residential or any, any kind of play with multi-image strictly just going to go all in, uh, with self storage, there was, there was two points.   The first was when we sold our multifamily, you can accuse me of a lot of things, but, you know, being the smartest guy in the room is you're, you're not going to accuse me of that one. So, um, you know, I, but I do watch what's happening in the marketplace. And so when the, the crash came in the last crash, the last two crashes, Oh one and Oh eight and Oh nine, we weren't sitting on a lot of property because I stopped buying because I was listening. And I think that's the key thing within the marketplaces. I was listening and paying attention to what the market was saying. I wasn't trying to force the market. And so I stopped buying in Oh one, I stopped buying in Oh eight and I was, I was selling and, you know, I was being criticized by my competition for selling my properties too low, to undercut them.   I'm like, look, I'm in cash, I'm out. You know, I don't want to be holding it because I'm not comfortable with what's going on. So when I saw that, you know, the cap compression for our apartments was lower than what I expected. That's when I began selling my, my apartment. I'm like, I'm just out or done now, did I time it perfectly? I don't know. You know, perhaps it's gonna do a little bit better now, but I'm also out, you know, I don't have to worry about if I'm gonna make a half point or a point better or worse, you know, that's, that's my philosophy. So we're in real estate, everything's for sale at the right price. So if I, if I feel that the market's going to be turning, then I will liquidate the other indicator for us was we, we were doing a spec house in when, uh, in the North shore was not in one actor, but in the North shore of Chicago.   And we had originally projected it to be like 1,000,050. And this was, you know, right. You know, we were right around the election time and the, the market opened up and we weren't quite done, but in January, like three homes all sold for like over a million dollars comparable to us. And then the rest of the year, nothing sold the new construction. And this, this is a brand new house. We pick it up for two 35, you know, we thought this was this, not a home run, but you know, a triple double for sure. Good deal. And we, we sat on that for a year. We had to rent it out and then we then sold it at breakeven. So we cut the price by over 20% in order to sell this thing just to get out. And so that was the next thing is like, there were so much fluctuation in the single family market that was like, there's too much risk.   So when I, when I'm evaluating risk, those are the things I'm looking for is like, what's the volatility, you know, and so far it was the cap compression. And then the volatility within the single family that we're not investing in those things. But if people are asking us to build it and develop it for them, then we will certainly do that. I think there's, there's obviously there's no risk to us, but I think there's less risk to someone else because they're not paying the premium of buying something new from someone else as a finished product or working with us and getting that benefit of being the owner from the front end. So we have built new homes recently. We just finished another church, we're working with another. So we just finished a church last year. We're working with another church right now. And, uh, you know, we, we just finished a house. So people hire us to do those things. But from an investment point of view, our portfolio is strictly self storage. Yeah. I love that. And so from a self storage, um, aspect, when you're building out the property, is there any value as a, you always look to add that, you know, that maybe other operators are missing or other people leave out that you think is, is definitely a mistake and you put this in there because you know, it really takes your property to that next level. It's not that complex. You never   Know. Right. So it could be anything, you know, automation, the key. Yeah. I think right now I actually, you know, I think one thing I said to her today is like, you know, what makes self storage, um, something that multifamily is, is going to take no two is it, it, it, it can be a touchless experience. Right? And so with the scarcity of what it is, I mean, you could walk in there and sign up for a locker, get key, you know, go through the kiosk, go through your gate, go in there, go in your thing. And you'll have cameras around. There's gonna be some point where, you know, I'm seeing that, you know, virtual, um, touring and apartments that people are getting adjusted to that, right. When they said, Oh, this might work because, but now that's the thing. So now, you know, people are selling houses through and everything else.   There's certain things where multifamily we'll take that, take that lesson from what they're seeing in self storage, but in terms of what you're doing, what are some of the other income drivers or other points in the properties that, that really, um, instead of like multifamily, right? So sometimes people just strictly focused on the rent, but they're missing all the ancillary parts from the income or the expense side that can really make the property because they're so focused just on the drive. Right. Right. Anything from a self storage component that you could add to note that you really think is, um, is lackluster on lots of other properties.   Yeah. Well, the, the big thing is, you know, people want try safe and secure, know those are the big driving factors. And yes, we like like most things in society today, it has gone to a touchless process. So even though we do have someone onsite that can help upsale provide other materials, boxes, packing, paper, tape, whatever it is, they have that ability that you can't always get at a kiosk location. So some of our friends who operate class B the kiosks work, wonderful class, a, you still need someone there because they're a lot bigger, you know, they're, they're about twice the size of a class B facility, and most of the class B or you drive up to versus going into the building. So everybody has their own individual key number where they can get access into the building. And, you know, they can, they can go in at any point in time.   So one of the things that we were offering, because we just opened it up, was like, we could say like, look, your locker, won't be within six feet of another occupied locker because we literally opened up like a week before the shelter in place. So it was pretty safe for safe. You come in, you'll be six feet away from somebody we'll insure it. You know? So that was one of the things that we offered. Um, but the big thing that we look for is what the market is demanding in terms of how big, so another reason why I like self storage over multifamily is I, I take the Henry Ford approach where he said that people could have whatever color car they wanted, as long as it was black. Got it. So for us, you know, they can have whatever color, self storage locker they want, as long as it's white, but more importantly, it's the size.   So what, when, when we're going through it and part of what our research and our due diligence is, what, what size is appropriate for that community. So if we just go in and build like really big units that they can't afford, then we're going to sit empty. Conversely, if we build too small of units, then no one's going to buy them because they don't want to rent like it's 20 little units. So in each community, we dictate what that size is in order to make sure that we're meeting the demand. But then we have the flexibility, as well as like in one of our facilities. We, we, we were sold out of the 10 by twenties, but yet we couldn't sell the 10 by tens. So we took out the inner wall of the 10 by Denzel man, 10 by twenties, and then they at least stop.   That's great. So we always look for that flexibility in terms of our layout or design, to make sure that we have a lot of variations. So we're not just, or unit configurations, not exactly the same throughout the entire building. What are some mistakes that are commonly made when people go into self storage investing? Well, I, I don't think it's any different than real estate. They overpriced, they overpaid, you know, and then they over leverage it. And then when the market turns or there's a change, they can't react and then their stock. And so that, and also due diligence, you know, what is the existing condition of the building? So some of the things that we're fortunate that we're doing is when we're, when we're buying these buildings, we're putting a new roof on, we're putting all new mechanicals in them. We're putting new energy efficient lighting that is motion sensor.   So it cuts down on electricity and a timer. Um, so all these, all these systems are brand new in our building. So we don't have to worry about, you know, is the boiler going to go out? Is the furnace going to go out the roof and those sorts of things. So we bring that, we're bringing the building up to state of the art technology. So the fact that we don't have to worry about a lot of ongoing maintenance concerns and the, the business plan is you go in there, you do the complete conversion process, and then you'll bring on third party management from what are the, the players there to manage the property for the life of the hold. Is that absolutely? Yeah. W I mean, my expertise is in real estate, it's not in managing self storage lockers. I'm granted, it's, it's apartments without toilets, right.   You know, that's where 35% of operational costs compared to multifamily, which is 55. There's a reason why it's 35% because there's, it, there's not as much to do, but there is a science to it. There is there isn't a logic to it. I let I hire them to do what they do best. And that way I can focus on what I do best, which is identifying properties, repositioning them and getting them ready for the marketplace. Is there a typical hold period that you find is, and I know that you talked a bit debt, you know, for multifamily, you're always bullish and just looking for the right angle. And when capris compressors is that the whole true again for what you look for in a self storage? I mean, typically for our development lease up, it's a three to five year hold. That's what we conveyed to our investors is, you know, we're, we're going to plan on holding it, excuse me, for three to five years, the last three have all been an opportunity zone.   So we we've, you know, we're, we're cognizant of that as well, to make sure that our investors are getting the maximum advantage of their taxes, um, through the opportunities on, so we balance all things in there and it spoke to the really, the city's openness for, for rezoning. Are you finding that traditionally, a lot of the properties come in there, you have to go through that process. And none of them are zoned correctly is, and that's not a huge hurdle, or is it ultimately standoffish based on town town, it's town to town, but it's becoming more difficult. Um, so storage is the ugly stepchild, make no bones about it. It is not the sexy, you know, rolls Royce or CA you know, Lamborghini in real estate. And people have this negative perception about it, but yet everybody needs it. You know? So, um, I shouldn't say everybody cause about 10% of the population utilize the self storage, but it's the type of thing where communities, I grew up in a town that didn't want to have fast food.   So they banned McDonald's. So when McDonald's was finally able to come in, they couldn't have their sign. Right. You know, they tried to push it down, but ultimately people bought the McDonald's and they make the, you know, 40 years later, the McDonald's is still there. Right? It's like, it's that way it was self storage. So the towns that we've had to rezone it, one actually told us to write the zoning because they said, you know, our zoning is so antiquated. We don't have the time. So why don't you just write it and we'll approve it. I mean, I have a master's in architecture, not urban planning. So I'm like, I've never had to write a zoning chapter, you know, definitions, those sorts of things. And the one we did in Wisconsin, we had to rezone it because it was zoned storage. And then they changed the definition between storage and self storage, because they were trying to block self storage.   So they zoned us. And I said, you guys already gave us our certificate of occupancy. And they said, well, you have to go through the process, but you won't have any problems. So we were the last ones. They PR they were preventing other people from being self storage because they didn't want more self-storage in Milwaukee, um, Toledo, Dayton, and Lowville all have the zoning. And interestingly enough, Dayton fought us. You know, they, they were trying to withhold our pace financing, um, because they didn't like the fact that we were coming in with self storage and they claimed that we didn't talk to them, which was really ironic because of the fact that, you know, we went and met with them. They made comments on what we were doing. We altered it, we showed it to them, but they were, they were trying to block it because they wanted retail on the first floor.   Interesting. And so we, we worked with them. We were, we were able to cooperate with them, come to an agreement that we both could, you know, live by. But, um, you know, they were, they were resistant to having self storage in downtown, even though it was zoned. And I said, if you don't want this, then why is it zoned that way? That was, that was my whole argument. Like, and they're like, well, we want it, but not there. I'm like, but it's zoned there. So I don't, I don't understand your argument. Yeah. The talk track doesn't quite align, but I think forward, you know, we'll see   Where we come out the other side of this, but, but you might find that cities start to take another look at it, just because it is a viable option of need when you have a lot of other things that are going to be hurting to come back. And a lot of things are going to be going digital. So, you know, Scott, I really appreciate your time. Really appreciate all the context and all the great feedback you gave on a self storage space for people don't want to learn more about you, your company, what would be the best way for them to connect?   Well, our website is www dot Coda, C O D a M G for management group.com. So that's Coda and g.com. And if they have questions, they can email us at info at dot com. And we have a lot of, we have a resource pages that shows like feasibility studies and different things, so people can learn about Salesforce on our website. So there's lots of information. That's awesome. Scott, thank you so much for coming on the show. Super appreciate the time. My pleasure. All right, everyone. Thank you so much. I'll talk to you shortly. Join us way. Your second cup of coffee. Every Monday through Friday at noon live every day, bringing us our best content we've done so far. Super excited, super engaging, a bunch of great guests. We're here to answer your questions and so appreciate listening. Make sure to check this out. Can't wait to see you. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Rick & Morty Season 4 is over! So Scott, Stephan, and Grant sit down to talk about its strengths and weaknesses!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/tfs)

Scott Painter of Bird's Eye Aerial Drones, is a repeat guest; we're checking back in on his business. He realized in the military that drones were the future, and in 2014 he started the company. A disabled veteran owned business, gathering aerial data. Their niche is unmanned, aerial data collection, and utility companies are a big part of their business. The utility companies are worried about their rural, forested assets starting fires and so monitoring them is highly critical, keeping the utility lines safe from fires. A California headquartered company, Scott's first customer was a California high school. They had re-done their football field. From the ground view, it looked like they had a botched job. So Scott suggested aerial views of the field, which showed it to be a beautifully laid out facility. There is one big concern for the business: They fly China-made drones. There has been scrutiny about being able to protect data and not let it get into the wrong hands. And while Bird's Eye has its clients sign off to the awareness of the issue, it is still something they have to keep their eye (no pun intended) on the situation constantly. Veteran Founder Podcast with your host Josh Carter We record the Felony Inc Podcast inside NedSpace in the Bigfoot Podcast Studio in beautiful downtown Portland. Audio engineer, mixer and podcast editor is Allon Beausoleil Show logo was designed by Carolyn Main Website was designed by Cameron Grimes Production assistant is Chelsea Lancaster Theme music: Artist: Tipsy Track: Kadonka Album: Buzzz Courtesy of Ipecac Records 10% of gross revenue at Startup Radio Network goes to support women entrepreneurs in developing countries thru kiva.org/lender/markgrimes Listen to the Veteran Founder Podcast live on-air every Friday at 1:00pm pacific time on Startup Radio Network at startupradionetwork.com

Introducing Ben Krueger Ben Krueger is our guest today joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots podcast. He  is a man who joins a very select band of entrepreneurs and businessmen who have made more than one appearance on the show. First appearing on the show on the 17th July 2014, he spoke passionately about his love for podcasting and his deep dive into the medium. Joining up the dots, it all started when he was penned up in an office working the dreaded dead-end job, and had to find something that would help him alleviate that daily feeling of boredom and dread.  So he resorted to listening to marketing and business podcasts, and as he listened, he started researching, and learning more about podcasting as a personal interest. How The Dots Joined Up For Ben This quickly grew into voracious research trying to uncover what made certain podcasts wild successes, and others a flop. So obsessed was he that he first created Authority Engine, which helped people become legends through the power of their voice. This has now pivoted into helping people start a podcast, or get theirs edited through Cash Flow Podcasting. When we last spoke he was living in Thailand as was an entrepreneur with a passion for the outdoors, travel, adventure, business strategy and podcasting. So is he still wearing the baggy shorts, and the sunglasses or has he settled down and watched his efforts grow his business? Well let's find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Ben Krueger Show Highlights During the show we discussed such deep subjects with Ben Krueger such as: Why a product that is too different even if its brilliant, more often than not wont get legs and gain traction. Ben shares a great story about a photography business in the UK, who niche down on every website they have online. We discuss how the clarity of a business is an evolution, and more often than not will become visible straight away. And lastly........... Why all business owners must focus on the value proposition of the perfect customer time and time again to truly find success. Ben Krueger Books How To Connect With Ben Krueger Website Linkedin Facebook Twitter Return To The Top Of Cash Flow Podcasting If you enjoyed this episode of Ben why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Spike Ball Founder, Nick Ruiz,  Sarah Caltieri or the amazing Sam Bearfoot Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from. Full Transcription Of Ben Krueger Interview Intro 0:00 When we're young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here's your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph. David Ralph 0:26 Now, good morning to you. Good morning, everybody. everywhere across the world. Do you ever sit there laying in bed or maybe in the bath and think to yourself, that guy who was on episode 88 of Join Up Dots back in 2014? I wonder what happened to him. Do you ever do that? Well, I know I do. And I'm glad I'm going to actually find out because today's guest is a man who joins a very select band of entrepreneurs and businessmen who have made more than one appearance on the show now first appearing on the show on the 17th of July 2014. As I said he spoke passionately about Lots of podcasting and he's deep dive into the medium. joining up the dots. It all started when he was penned up in an office working the dreaded dead end job and had to find something that would help him alleviate that daily feeling of boredom and dread. So he resorted to listening to marketing and business podcasts. And as he listened he started researching and learning more about podcasting just as a personal interest. Now, this quickly grew into a voracious research trying to uncover what made certain podcasts wild successes, and others a flop. And so obsessed was he that he first created authority engine, which helped people become legends through the power of their voice. This is now pivoted into helping people start a podcast or get theirs edited easily through cash flow podcasting. Now when we last spoke, he was living in Thailand and was an entrepreneur with a passion for the outdoors, travel, adventure business strategy and podcasting. So the question is, Is he still wearing the baggy shorts and the sunglasses He's always he settled down and watch these efforts grow into a fully fledged business. And why do so many people fail at podcasting when it's such an amazing medium to connect with people, and people are listening more and more every day? Well, let's find out as we bring them to the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Ben Krueger. Ben Krueger 2:25 I'm doing great. David, thank you so much for having me back. It's, it's bringing it all back bringing it all back a couple years now. David Ralph 2:32 I know I haven't changed back and I'm still doing the same old routine that I've been doing for six years. And that actually leads into a good question. I wasn't going to ask you that question. But do you think we've podcast the ones that do really well is because there's a kind of familiarity kind of people know what they're going to get. I remember hearing the producer of police academy films. Do you remember the police academy films back in the day? And oh, yeah, they got up to like police academy nine He said, the real thing to make something successful is give people what they liked about the one before, but make it different. So they come back. So that familiarity. Do you think that's what makes a podcast successful? Ben Krueger 3:14 I mean, I think that's one of one of many routes because yeah, you you as a podcaster. No. And anybody out there like all the podcast is, is recorded audio. So at the end of the day, there's so many different things you can do with the medium. But I like that, you know, if you tapped into a vein, where people are really engaged, people are really connected. And you give them more of that. Just with different stories, different people's experiences, like your show is a perfect format that doesn't need to be changed every episode because it's about people's stories. It's about the dots in their in their experience that have linked up to create who they are and who they're becoming. So it's this It's this interesting format that, you know, if somebody tried to apply the same format to something that was a little bit more different, you know, it's like an evolving news or something like that you could use the same kind of rough format so that people again, like you said, know what to expect. But there's got to be, you know, there's got to be something new going on there to bring them back and keep them interested. So I think there's definitely two sides to that coin, but I like because with these types of format of shows, there is newness, but it's in the same format. So you get, you get the same value delivered over and over and over again. You get the same type of entertainment, but it's new and it's fresh, because it's new people, new stories and new and interesting things going on. So yes and no is my gloriously refined answer there. Well, I'm David Ralph 4:55 gonna throw it to another level now because I was listening while I was watching So Scott, and I've been talking about it for over lockdown that we're in at the moment. There's some good content that's being produced. And there's some bloody awful content. And the one that I do like is some good news sGn network by john Wright and I just like that he's 1625 minutes. And I was watching it today. And he had Oprah Winfrey on any air to Steven Spielberg. And obviously, he's got a good network, but he can sprinkle the Stardust across. But it's format. It's the news. And I thought to myself, it's interesting, actually, we like the way it's happening. Because it's how we know. We know that the news, as I used to do training courses many, many years ago, and I always said, Tell them what you're going to tell him, Ben, tell him and Ben, tell them what you told him. And that was basically how you summarise the training goals. But news is exactly the same. They tell you what's in the news. And then they give you a bit more about it and then a summary at the end. And once again, that's gone off like a rocket because it reads Is that Amelie ality You know, I'm really interested in this pain. I wasn't going to speak to you about this because I hadn't thought about it. But I wonder if products and services are more likely to find legs because they're similar to something out there more than somebody trying to create something brand new. Ben Krueger 6:19 Yeah, well, it's that classic, you know, the the innovators kind of dilemma where, what what has been shown time and time again with different products with different services with different things. If something's too different from what currently is, even if it's significantly better. It's too big of a leap of faith for people to take, because there is there wasn't that like stair step in between. Whereas if it's a little bit better or a little bit different or a little bit improved, and a little bit refined, that tends to be my much more More resonant product or service or show. And so I see that all the time with shows that are trying to be too creative. Like they kind of they're, they're too out there. So they don't even, they don't really connect with people because they people can't draw a connection between what they think of as a podcast and what this thing is that they're trying to listen to. And it doesn't really doesn't really Join Up Dots as it were. So it's an interesting dilemma, where it seems to be and I think it's a little bit of a human nature thing. We want to know what we're expecting, or we want to have some idea of what we're looking at and what it is. So if it's a little bit too far out there, it's too different. It's going to be hard for us to track and hard for us to really engage fully without having that judgement piece. I think that's a big part of it. David Ralph 7:57 So if we go back in time law He was with us you were talking about your business authority engine. And what I loved about that at the time, and I remember I was very new in the game. But I remember having some kind of deep connection to the fact of biscuit. I didn't just throw it out. But he became an expert. He did the work. He did the research and a poverty engine, I thought was going to be your legacy work. It just seemed to be fulfilling a need at that time, is now pivoted to cash flow podcasting. Why Why did you change it? Ben Krueger 8:33 Yeah, good question. We we found over time working with folks that our specialty really came in as working with established businesses that were trying to use podcasting as a way to engage their audience to build you know, their authority and their network in their industries, to uplift their industry and at the end of the day, as well to generate clients and And revenue for their business. So, you know, there's a tonne of ways people can use podcasting, there's a tonne of different types of podcasts and categories of podcasts. But we really found that was our sweet spot is helping businesses, you know whether coaching online services SAS, you know, financial advising all those kinds of businesses use podcasting as a way to transform their audience over time, through trusting relationships, through results in advance in educating through their content into folks who are really great prospects and really great clients for their brand. So that's kind of where that transition came in. And a lot of the core elements are still there. It really just came down to a refinement of who we can add the most value for in terms of clients because we could work with all types of different podcasts. We have really found that's our sweet spot. We talk about that time and time again on Join Up Dots about online business is simple. And I Keep on drumming this in because I want people to understand that is simple, you've got to have something that other people value, it's got to either solve a big problem or move them into an increased level of status or pleasure point. And then focus in on that one person and just do that. And it's almost better if you've got a great idea to have like nine different customer bases, but just speak to that one customer in each of the portals. So create a website just for that customer and then another one just for that customer. And I speak to people and I say oh, no, no, no, I just want one business like oh, yeah, one business is brilliant. Let's try to get one business but let's try to get one customer that really buys big. Learn what works from that and then sort of rinse and repeat because it is easy isn't a pain once you've done it's it's the it's the classic Like be a big fish in a small pond or the air of a small town versus, you know, trying to trying to swim with the sharks. You know, I one great example of this that I really like and I've heard a couple other people bring up over time is a it's a it's a photography company out of the UK that does product photography. So they have two websites that I'm aware of and they may have other ones but one is we shoot bottles so you know it's it's product photography of anything in a bottle and we shoot cans to totally different domains they don't refer to each other at all. But it's the same company they pretty much use the exact same setup because cans and bottles are pretty similar from a photography standpoint, but I love that it's so special. Each one is so specific. So if you've got you know a product that comes in a bottle and you find out about we shoe bottles, calm boy does that sound like the right fit or not. David Ralph 12:00 And so many people out there think that they're gonna miss out open don't they think if I go for everyone they're gonna miss out and you can go as niche as you want. And I remember people used to say the riches are in the niches and they you know it doesn't work over the UK because we say niche but I like that niche and rich and I used to think really really bad is true is so true you can go too wide but you can't go too deep. Ben Krueger 12:27 Yeah, it's that classic when you've heard the same advice too many times you almost don't trust it cuz it seems a little cliche, but it's absolutely true. And we've found for for podcasts, and particularly for ones that are are trying to you know, they're they're creating a podcast community around a brand around a product or a service. We have found this this idea of niching down as if you can with your content you saw One main problem for one core group of people. So a perfect example of this is like a gal. We work with Katrina Ebell, she's got a podcast called weight loss for busy physicians. I mean, it couldn't be more specific and more directed, she solves one problem for one group of people. And so with that, her podcast really, really resonates for those folks that that fit in that space. And there's more people in that space then she can actually work with, she's been sold out for a while. So it's that classic. You know, if you try to be everything to everybody, you're gonna have a hard time getting traction, whereas if you can be the mayor of that small town, everybody in that small town knows you they share. You know, they talk about you with their neighbours like that that whole town knows who you are and what you're about and how you can help them out. Now with your David Ralph 13:54 tagline, I suppose on their podcast services, the busy thought leaders, I was looking And earlier, and I'm very much into trying to explain a business in four to five words that really say what your service is podcast services for busy thought leaders. Ben Krueger 14:14 Well, the fun part is we're in the process of a complete upgrade and how we communicate our our services. So the the new thing that we're moving towards or the new way we're describing how we do what we do, is we make podcasting easy. Yeah, that's really it, isn't it? Yeah. And that's with the caveat that you know, someone is in in kind of the verticals that we can help the most, but at the core foundation of it. That's what it's all about. Because when when we first started this whole process of helping people, create, plan, create and launch podcasts for their business We're actually working with a gentleman, who at the time, I had only been doing podcast production, I had helped out on some launches. But I had a gentleman come to me and say, you know, I want to start a podcast for my brand. I've got an online paid community. I don't have the time. I don't know what I don't know. And I want to do it right. Help me out. So what does that look like? So we work together to figure out what is this process where he can just show up as the host. And we can have a process and a team that supports him in just doing that. So really, what it comes down to over time is we make podcasting easy. And, you know, I always like to add on the little, you know, because I can't just leave it as simple as possible. We make podcasting easy and effective because at the end of the day, if it's not working for a brand or if it's not working in contributing to the goals that the host wants it to do, then what are we? What are we even doing? So I'm a big fan of start with the end in mind and make it easy and as simple as possible. effectiveness does not have to be complicated. David Ralph 16:16 Yeah, I agree with you totally. And I love the word easy. If you go over to Join Up Dots, my tagline is we make getting your own successful online business easy. And I saw one the other day, which is lawn care made easy. You know, in four words, it says everything that it does, and but that ability to have that kind of clarity in your own business. Is that something that people should get right at the beginning, or should they grow into it because I come to it from two different sides. I can do it for other people, but I wonder whether the actual evolution is part of getting that simplicity and clarity Ben Krueger 17:00 Well, I can definitely say I would have loved to be able to start with that clarity. But I can definitely say from a personal standpoint, like our message has shifted and changed and evolved and refined and gotten more and more simple over time. But I know my personal tendency is to say 10 words when three words will do yeah, so that David Ralph 17:23 I know that problem. Ben Krueger 17:25 Exactly, exactly. I think I think all of us talkers tend to have that challenge. But I think you know, it depends on where you're at. And I think what it really comes down to is the simplicity of the messaging comes from a deeper understanding of, of the space and of either the problem you're solving or you know, the the benefit that you are sharing with folks because the more you understand that space, their needs, their psychographics why it's important to them, the More you can simply communicate it. So if you are, you know, let's say you work in, in a industry for 20 years as an employee, or you know, in part of a different company, and then you strike out on your own, you've had 20 years to figure out what that industry is all about what's important to people, you know, and so you can, I think it'd be much easier to start with some super clarity. Because you know, the space you understand what's going on. Whereas if you are just getting into an arena, into a vertical into an industry, there's gonna be some time as you kind of get grips on what's going on, and what's important to people. And, you know, just because it's important to one doesn't mean it's important to others. So you got to kind of find where those sweet spots are. So I think it's a natural evolution. But it comes with an understanding of what the pain points are, what the challenges are, what the outcomes are, what the hopes and dreams are of the folks in that space, David Ralph 19:01 let's hear from Oprah. And then we'll be back with Ben, Oprah Winfrey 19:03 the way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. What is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move, and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you're not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction. David Ralph 19:35 Now, have you had failuress? Because from my side of the fence, and I've connected with you a couple of times, and we've known each other for years, but we hardly know each other at all. But it's always seemed like you had persistence. You were somebody that was going to follow it through. And so have you actually had babies or have they just been sort of learning learning opportunities for you? Ben Krueger 19:59 Oh, I think Yeah, any anybody that says they haven't had failures, I think I think might be sweeping some things under the rug. And not that you can't take them and see them as learning experiences and step into the other side. But I've absolutely had some some failures. So one, one particularly tasty one is for a while, you know, I got into entrepreneurship with only having worked a few jobs and marketing all for a couple of months at a time. So I think I was I was an employee through I think I bounced around to four or five different companies over the course of about three years total. And then when I and then I went into starting my own business, but no, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I had no idea how to manage a team or build a team or do it all myself or manage, you know, the finances of a company. So I think one of the one of the biggest learning opportunities for me, which at the time I definitely saw as a failure and really frustrated me was I did not know how to manage cash flow within a company, which is kind of funny seeing as we're now called cashflow podcasting, but this was also before the branding change. So essentially, we were we had a year where we just lost money because I was doing a lot of investing in growth in big ideas in shiny objects. And I was not paying attention to the bottom line I wasn't paying attention to like having stair step growth of just, you know, looking at the next piece and then the next piece as Oprah just, you know, so eloquently put it I was trying to skip steps and in doing so, Got the company into debt and not in a healthy way and I ended up having to let go of a key team member who and absolutely done an incredible job up until that point you know arguably better than me and it was it felt like a massive failing because I had I had not made decisions in the company that were intelligent around money in that I could could essentially keep employing him and so I had to essentially really tighten tighten about pulling the drawstrings relearn and understand like okay, how do I go from I'm losing money every single month to I need this to be profitable and not from some maniacal you know, laughing on top of my you know, pile of gold coins mixed, you know, Mix Scrooge type of thing. But for any venture to actually contribute and survive, it needs to be profitable. So that was a serious what felt like a huge failing at the time. And sometimes depending on how I'm feeling in the day, it can still feel like a giant failure. But it it was absolutely a learning curve and led me in a direction that now I feel like I've you know, got a really solid understanding for what needs to be in place financially for the company to do well. And I've put in systems in place so that when I'm when I start to you know, if things start to shift in a way that it's not supporting us and along in the long term financially, then I've got some early red flags and warning so I don't find myself in that position again. David Ralph 23:53 It's personally my biggest failing was obsession. I was obsessed and overwhelmed. And just I just grow, drove myself into knees and there's many different references of my journey on Join Up Dots that you can go back to. But my number one learning that I learned was it's better not to work on a business plan to work on a business. All my great ideas come up when I'm on vacation, or sitting in the garden, more than just being in front of a computer slogging away for hours on hours thinking that it's going to be genius. And a lot of stuff that I've done in the past. I look at it and I think it failed because there was a desperation in it. I there was a lack of clarity in it. I don't think I was totally believing in it. So it was just kind of a shadow of what it is now. Anybody that comes to me now, they get value. And I absolutely go to bed with you know, a clear conscience and I will sleep better than anybody. But in the early days, when I was trying to get it going. I think it was kind of half baked because I didn't have the journey, I think you've got to have the journey, which is why it's so important if somebody is starting a business to start with your current knowledge base, because then you've only got half the learning the entrepreneurial side is quite difficult to learn. But at least you start with something that you already know about. Ben Krueger 25:23 Yeah, and I think this is this reflects actually pretty accurately on on one of what I would consider my biggest failings as well as, for the longest time in business. Like I, when it comes down to it, I made it about me. I made it about what I wanted, like how I wanted the business to support my lifestyle, what I wanted to do and what I didn't want to do, it was it was very, you know, kind of, if a if a, you know, five year old was having a tantrum, and you know, it's about me, they don't get to have their nap time or you know, whatever. Yeah, it's It's a little bit of that, that going on. And it's not something I'm super proud to admit, but it's absolutely true and what I've, what the primary shift has been in, it's kind of the scarcity versus abundance mindset. Like if you're in a mindset where you you are doing okay, then you have the ability to give back. Whereas, if you feel like you are just scraping along and you're, you're in that hustle and grind, and you've got to get it's very, you know, get focused. So I think the big shift for me has been trying to and transition and stay in the place of contributing as much value as I can through our products and services through you know, all the content and things that we we create and at the same time, I think that that reflects our into how I interact with our team, how I interact with clients and customers, how I interact with referral partners and that kind of thing, because, you know, I'm not showing up to get in, in kind of on the flip side of that same coin when I'm showing up to figure out how can I highlight other people's genius and and partner with people in a way that's collaboratively expansive, as opposed to how can I do it myself to save a few bucks. And obviously, there's some realities here to where you need to, you need to be have the chequebook balance at the end of the month, but there's a lot of ways to partner with people and to contribute value without it necessarily being $1 and cents expense. So I think that's a big shift that you know, and to be honest, it's something that I have to work on. So just like any of these kind of things, it's Oftentimes not a snap your fingers and you were this yesterday and now you're this today. But I see it as like that's my area of continuous development and growth is how can I come from a place of giving of love of care and abundance? And the more I do that, the more the more things just seem to get easier and easier. David Ralph 28:26 We're talking to Ben Krueger from cash flow podcasting, and we'll be back with him after these words. Unknown Speaker 28:34 You ready to make a full time living online? Check out the amazing Join Up Dots business coaching. Hello, my name is Alan. And I've just completed the excellent eight week course with David before I started working with David Actually, I had no idea at all where to start. I had a lot of ideas about while I probably thought was going to be good business, David was able to help me through that though, to find that passion. Within literally minutes, we had, we had a business idea. And for the last seven weeks, we've been building on it and building on it. And the position I'm in now, I don't think I've ever got here Unknown Speaker 29:10 on my own because of the amount of information that David gives the structure. He's got the full package here and he explains it in a way that I can understand. His support is phenomenal. I feel like this is the way business is supposed to work. David helped me understand, okay, what David Ralph 29:26 were the next logical steps that I should do? How can I get this up and running? So I would really recommend this as an excellent course helping you if you have an idea if you have no idea, really teasing that out and some of the practicalities and steps to take to really launch your business whether as a full time job or as a side hustle. So it was really excellent. I recommend it for anybody thinking about setting up their own business, or both. It's an exaggeration to say David will totally save you years. Thank you, David for all your amazing help and support which keeps on going And we certainly couldn't be where we are today without you. So you're awesome. So if you would love to become my next success s

Due to Hollywood's quest to erase any film that isn't already connected to another film by any means necessary, there have been a lot of sequels over the years. Some good, others...just...just real bad, guys. So Scott and Mark Russell are here to bitch about their personal worst ones! And not just because you'll probably agree with all of them. Okay, most of them. Some of them. A few. WORK WITH ME HERE, PEOPLE!  Plus, check out all our sweet AP2HYC Merch! Listen & Subscribe: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Android | Stitcher | PodBean | Podchaser | Podparadise | Listen Notes |  Player.FM | RSS Follow us on: Twitter: @AP2HYC Instagram: @AP2HYC Facebook.com/AP2HYC YouTube.com/AP2HYCape Edited by Alexandra Mirabal Timecode: Cars 2, Highlander 2, Shrek the Third, Dark Phoenix, Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, and Spider-Man 3 - 3:30 Land Before Time Sequels, Quantum of Solace, Halloween Resurrection, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and Transformers - 32:50 Star Trek: Into Darkness, Terminator: Genesis, Batman: Forever, Never Ending Story 3, The Crimes of Grindlewald, Men in Black International, The Secret of NIMH 2, and The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy - 59:40

Next up for Celtic is a trip to the Tony Macaroni Arena, for a midweek match against Livingston.So Scott hit up Euan Rankine of the Livi Talk podcast.The lads discuss the recent up and downs of Livi, how Gary Holt saved the club from Kenny Miller and then look at the previous matches between the side and the upcoming match.Enjoy

Next up for Celtic is a trip to the Tony Macaroni Arena, for a midweek match against Livingston.So Scott hit up Euan Rankine of the Livi Talk podcast.The lads discuss the recent up and downs of Livi, how Gary Holt saved the club from Kenny Miller and then look at the previous matches between the side and the upcoming match.Enjoy

On this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy and Smart Podcast, Jenna Kantor guests hosts and interviews Keaton Ray and Scott McAfee on how to develop a successful business partnership.  Keaton and Scott are MovementX business partners.  MovementX is on a mission to heal the world through movement.  We believe that if you can move your best, you can live your best.  We are doctor-founded and patient-focused to help bring more convenient, transparent, and personalized physical therapy care to the world. In this episode, we discuss: -What is MovementX and how is it revolutionizing physical therapy practice? -The importance of identifying the strengths and weaknesses of your team -Why you need different channels of communication in a partnership -The key elements of a successful business partnership -And so much more!   Resources: Movement X Website Movement X Instagram Keaton Ray Twitter   Scott McAfee Twitter Email: info@movement-x.com   A big thank you to Net Health for sponsoring this episode!  Check out Optima’s Top Trends For Outpatient Therapy In 2020!                                                                      For more information on Keaton: I am a passionate physical therapist and wellness/fitness specialist in Portland, OR specializing in reducing pain, increasing strength, restoring mobility and balance, and optimizing performance. I've worked with clients across the lifespan from those who have never exercised a day in their lives, to those who are afraid to exercise because of pain, to advanced athletes looking to take their performance to the next level. For more information on Scott: Dr. Scott believes in a world where anyone can move & live their best. The problem is that with today's healthcare system, finding the best care, avoiding crowded clinics, and dealing with insurance can be frustrating. That's why he chose to do things differently. Dr. Scott's practice is 100% mobile–he provides care in the comfort of your home, gym, or office. He brings a mobile treatment table and helps you decrease pain, increase strength/mobility, prevent injury, restore function, and coordinate your care plan. Wherever & whenever you need care, he can be there. It's convenient, valuable, & personalized to whatever you need. Dr. Scott works with a wide range of people, from youth athletes & avid runners to active grandparents & busy businesspeople. Call or text the number above to get directly in touch with him, and you can have a free phone consultation about what health goals you want to accomplish!   For more information on Jenna: Jenna Kantor (co-founder) is a bubbly and energetic girl who was born and raised in Petaluma, California. Growing up, she trained and performed ballet throughout the United States. After earning a BA in Dance and Drama at the University of California, Irvine, she worked professionally in musical theatre for 15+ years with tours, regional theatres, & overseas (www.jennakantor.com) until she found herself ready to move onto a new chapter in her life – a career in Physical Therapy. Jenna is currently in her 3rd year at Columbia University’s Physical Therapy Program. She is also a co-founder of the podcast, “Physiotherapy Performance Perspectives,” has an evidence-based monthly youtube series titled “Injury Prevention for Dancers,” is a NY SSIG Co-Founder, NYPTA Student Conclave 2017 Development Team, works with the NYPTA Greater New York Legislative Task Force and is the NYPTA Public Policy Committee Student Liaison. Jenna aspires to be a physical therapist for amateur and professional performers to help ensure long, healthy careers. To learn more, please check out her website: www.jennafkantor.wixsite.com/jkpt   Read the full transcript below: Jenna Kantor (00:00): Hello, this is Jenna Kantor here with Healthy, Wealthy and Smart. I'm here with Scott McAfee and Keaton Ray and I am tired. We are at Graham sessions 2020 and I am so lucky to be interviewing the two of you on your partnership with movement X. So first of all, thank you so much for coming on. It's an honor to be speaking with both of you. So first, would you mind explaining what movement X is and then dive into how your partnership began?   Keaton Ray: Sure. So movement X is a group of United providers across the country who are providing care in an inspired way. So we refer to it as the 11 star experience. We're going above and beyond the five star experience and providing care where people need it most, when people need it most, whether that's at their home, at their gym, at their workplace, on the track and field at their doctor's office. We're showing up and providing care that makes a difference. So improving lives on both sides of the treatment table for the provider and for the patient. Jenna Kantor (00:58): All right, and now your partnership.   Keaton Ray: Sure. So where to begin? So Scott and I first connected on movement X in 2016 or early 2017. Started with a phone call. I knew that Josh D’Angelo and myself couldn't do this on our own, so we called up some trusted partners that we had known closely through the APTA. Scott was one of the very first people we talked to and immediately had a connection over the mission, which is you know, help people move their best so they can live their best. And I'll hand it over to Scott who can explain the transition from that first talk about movement X to him, actually quitting his job, moving across the country, dropping everything to help us with our vision. Scott McAfee (01:50): So it was a very exciting time for me. I was just finishing up my residency program in Southern California. And I loved the people that I was working with. I loved my coworkers. I love my patients. And it was really an amazing residency experience at this hospital. However, I was somewhat displeased with the with the environment of dealing with insurance companies and being somewhat limited in my ability to truly and deeply care for people that I knew I had the potential to as a physical therapist. And after my conversation with Keaton, I got really, really inspired of what the opportunity looked like for physical therapists in this more mobile cash pay model. And it was I think about a week after I had passed my residency when I knew, wow, there's some real opportunity here. Scott McAfee (02:52): And Josh D’Angelo one of the cofounders along with Keaton he had been in the Washington DC area for seven years, was very well connected out there. And at the time right when I was finishing up my residency, I was very comfortable down in Southern California. I had a very strong network. My life was just going straight according to plan per se. And I've never quite learned at any point in my life from a point of comfort and I wanted to flip that on its head. So I decided to move all the way to the East coast to join forces with Josh D’Angelo in Washington DC in addition with Fred Gilbert who moved from Alabama to Washington DC and that's how the partnership began and we began expanding from there and it's just been an absolute wild ride since Jenna Kantor (03:49): I love it. And I love how you two interact with each other. You're both good friends as well as definitely business partners. How the heck did you get to that point? Cause I would love for you to first go into your struggles and then what you did to implement something that would work between the two of you. Keaton Ray (04:08): That is a good question. So all of us, everyone who started the company actually started as friends way before we ever started at business partners. And that is both one of our deepest strengths as well as probably one of our greatest challenges as well. But from day one, it was intentional on our part to learn each other's strengths and be open to each other's weaknesses and communicate if not over communicate about each one of those. So there is times when Scott and I probably are just at each other's necks, including other people. I get frustrated on a daily basis with everyone and they get frustrated with me. And that is okay, that is normal. But what we've done is we've gone through intentional work where we set aside hours at a time, both on the phone and in person to be open about those strengths and be open about those weaknesses. And each and every one of us over the past two, three years has just grown because of that intention that we've put into growing each other. So it is not easy. It definitely changes the relationship, but it's worth the intention. Scott McAfee (05:12): And Keaton and I, we both go back to the student assembly board of directors, although we never served together. I learned so much about how I function on a team in that environment. And I would imagine that you learned the same. And I think once you truly understand yourself and then also once you truly understand and appreciate and realize the mission of what your team is trying to accomplish, that how you get to the end goal of accomplishing that task is irrelevant. You just have to get there. And yes, you are going to agree on certain things you're going to disagree on probably even more things if your team is actually functional. But at the end of the day, as long as you are on a team, it can get to the end goal. That's what matters most. And from there you walk out of the room, no matter what discussion happened inside of that room, all with the same mindset of, Hey, this is our goal. We may have disagreed on how we got here, but now we're all in agreements. Hey this is what matters most. And, you have a clear sight of where you're going. Keaton Ray (06:27): One thing I'll add to that, the other two areas of strength. You said it perfectly, Scott. I think one is putting infrastructure into being able to build a communication pathway. So we have a lot of various company languages that we use that help us recognize when we're falling into several habits that may affect the growth. So one example is the six thinking hats. So six thinking hats. You know, the red hat is the emotional hat, the white hat is the fact hat. The green hat is the innovation hat. The yellow hat is the optimism hat. The black hat is the devil's advocate hat. Josh D'Angelo would be so proud. I just remembered that. And so sometimes when we're in a heated conversation or we don't see things eye to eye, we need to recognize, Hey, I'm wearing my red hat right now and you're wearing your white hat. No wonder we're not seeing each other. And various communication pathways like this have helped us to recognize where we're falling short and where we need to improve. And so without those types of things, it would be a lot harder to grow as a team. Scott McAfee (07:25): I love how you brought that up as an example because not only does that help us make decisions in the board room per se with business it's also helped me make personal decisions, look at problems that I'm facing in my own life from many different angles, right? Hey, if I had a green hat optimist view of this versus a devil's advocate, why would I talk myself out of this? I think I've been able to look at things from somewhat of a stoic and very objective point of view rather than getting to red hat emotional about certain things. And it's also helped in personal relationships as well. So as much as you can grow together in the boardroom, I think you take away so many different things on a personal aspect as well. And yeah, I love that analogy. That was something that Josh D’Angelo initially introduced and has just been so helpful. Keaton Ray (08:19): One more. The last thing I'll say too is if you ever want an ego check, join a group of six. We started with six incredibly innovative, intelligent, outspoken leaders. Sit yourself in a group of six outspoken leaders and have them debate your mission and your vision and your processes and everything in the background there. There is no space for ego when you are working with this large and this capable of a team. So you cannot be a solopreneur and accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. So we've all really worked hard in our egos and it's not always easy, but every single person on this team has done a great job.   Jenna Kantor: Would you mind sharing your own personal things you've learned about exploring how you work? I think that'd be interesting for people to hear. You're like, I am actually a person who's like this, I would love for you to share that. So then people could even learn how you are so different. Scott McAfee (09:16): So I might take a second to think about that. And that's something that I have learned about myself is that it often times helps me to take a second and think of getting my thoughts together on how to approach a certain question or an issue or how to solve a problem. Rather than to just speak my mind immediately. But I will say that right off the bat that going into this team, I'm in just awe of everybody who I get to work with on a daily basis. And people often ask me, Hey, why did you move to Washington DC? It wasn't only for this like larger mission and this larger purpose. It was to have conversations late at night with people who inspired me who I just looked up to in so many different ways. And that was a goal of mine when I was actually looking for different colleges to apply to. I was like, who could I surround myself with and have just really deep and insightful talks late at night with and I just feel so fortunate to be able to do that as part of this team and as our youngest member on the exact team that we have, I oftentimes do try to just be a sponge and take in as much information and inspiration from my team as possible. Keaton Ray (10:41): I was laughing through Scott's excellent explanation because sometimes I think we can explain each other's work habits at this point better than we can explain our own. And so I am the opposite of Scott, although it's gotten, I have the team probably operate the most similarly. But you know, there's differences between everyone. So I am very blend and I should take more time to stop and think first. But if something's on my head, it is right out in the open. And so one of the things that we've really worked on as a team between Scott and I, but also between all the team members is managing conflict. So some of us on the team are much more comfortable with conflict. Me being one of them, while others have a little bit more of a reservation around conflict. Now compared to other people, everyone is excellent at managing conflict, but it's a personal comfort as to how you actually deal with that. Keaton Ray (11:31): So I would say while Scott says he's much more, you know, maybe has to think about it in, in the background a little bit. I am much more of that writing your face. Oh, I don't agree with that. Or Oh, I totally love that. You know, kind of person. So a lot more forward facing. But what Scott and I have as an extreme similarity is that we are the doers. We're like, let's do it tomorrow. We have idea. Great. Okay, I'm going to stay up all night. We're going to crank this out. We're going to have a product tomorrow. We're going to launch it, we're going to test it a little bit and we're going to redo it. Whereas Fred and Josh tend to be much more of those visionary. Like, let's stop. Let's look longterm. Let's think of how this affects this. And, it is a wonderful combination because all of us compliment each other so well. You can't have one leadership style without the compliment of the other, but it can lead to frustration. You're moving too fast, you're not moving fast enough. You know, back and forth. So the communication puts us all in alignment and we're stronger because of it. Scott McAfee (12:30): Yeah. Actually one of the core values in our company is passion times purpose. And you can't have one without the other. And the way that I think about that is you cannot have action without strategy as well. And that's one thing that Josh and Fred are so instrumental in teaching us and teaching me and even keep me, is inspired me in so many different ways to behind everything that I do. Always have a strategy and don't skip steps in the action that you want to take. So I think that's very important. Jenna Kantor (13:03): I love that. I love that very much. What made you decide to hire out to figure out how to work better together? How did that, I'm sure alone cause you hadn't figured it had something in play like you do now. How did you get to that agreeing point to go, okay this is who we're going to invest in to improve our communication, to improve our partnership? How'd you get there?   Keaton Ray: Yeah. So I think what you're referring to is the consulting work that we did for a team development. So we actually got incredibly lucky. We got chosen by a graduate program working on human resources and team development as their trial team to take a deep dive look into each one of our personalities and our work habits and then do basically a report. So we each had a one-on-one like hour long talk with this consulting firm and they went deep into our work styles. Keaton Ray (13:53): We'll look it up, we'll look it up. And so then they came back at us and basically gave us a very honest report about how our team is functioning and then gave us assignments on how to dive deep and improve the report essentially. So it was a really hard activity and emotionally draining, but it was so bonding and we're so much stronger because of that consulting work we did. You have to recognize your weaknesses. We knew we're not perfect, nobody's perfect. And so we're willing to invest in the team to improve because without this team, the mission of this company doesn't go anywhere. Scott McAfee (14:33): So it was a graduate program at Georgetown university. Jenna Kantor (14:42): Yeah, that's very cool. I love that you guys said that is still looking it up to see if she could get more information. And I want to find this information for the listeners in case there is somebody starting a business who might want to look this up and see if this program might help them as well. Because seeing how you two interact, like I said, there really is some magic, dare I say Disney magic happening between the partnership and I think that is absolutely spectacular. Did you find the name?   Keaton Ray: So it was Georgetown's graduate program. Robin Goodstein graduated from that program and started her consulting firm called Balcony consulting. So anyone looking for team-based collaboration and consulting, she's incredible.   Jenna Kantor: Now what are your biggest challenges that you have and the easiest things for you guys overall? Cause you guys have grown together, but what are just the constant things that you expect to be like, okay this is a little challenging and this is like easy. Keaton Ray (15:58): So this is a hard question. That's a great question. But I think that the easiest thing that we have now is a baseline understanding of how each other operate. The first few months in definitely year plus was just learning each other's habits, learning each other's needs and learning each other's emotions. And now I think we have such an intricate understanding of how we each operate that it's much easier to move the company with speed. Knowing that, I think the hard part is, is we're now in a place with the company that we're really truly starting to grow and we're going to run into barriers that are unlike anything we've ever had. And so, so far we've been able as a team to come together and hustle and make this thing work and create an amazing movement. But we're going to max out of our own knowledge. And so we're going to have to find new team members who come into our company who do not have the same intricate knowledge of one another. So now it's not just managing each other, it's managing other people and having them fit into the culture as strongly as we do. Scott McAfee (17:00): I think that's perfectly said because we agreed too much. No. because it's going to be so special and like I said, such a wild ride ahead as we do grow and with as many things that are going to change and as many new obstacles that we're going to face, I truly do believe that we do have a very strong foundation and like you said, baseline understanding and respect for each other and how we both operate. And that goes for everybody in our team and in our community. The more that we can better understand how we operate and all speak the same language they all have the same core beliefs and core values and share so much of the same culture. If you know from a deep level that binds you together, I definitely believe that no matter what obstacle may come your way, you can adapt your team in a very nimble way, in a very strategic way, in order to accomplish that. We're with as many problems as we face and with as much as we have accomplished you know, the sky's the limit. And, I think there's so much growth waiting to be had that it's just so important to have that foundation before you have anything else. Jenna Kantor (18:21): I love it. Thank you so much. You too, for coming on here at this crazy, magnificent time here at Graham sessions, you two really set a great bar that is possible for anybody to achieve at their business partnerships. So thank you. Scott McAfee (18:36): Appreciate those words, Jenna and I couldn't echo the same thing about you and Karen. You guys are great. This podcast has inspired me when I was a student. So I just feel very fortunate to have the opportunity to speak to your audience and hope that we've spread something valuable worth listening to. So I appreciate you Keaton Ray (18:58): Agreed all around. Thank you so much for this opportunity. The one thing I'll leave the listeners with is if you want to build a team and you want to grow a mission, you have to be vulnerable. You have to put yourself out there and let people see what you do know, what you don't know, your hesitations, your fears and your vulnerabilities. Because without that, there's no way you can connect with people enough to build something as meaningful as we're trying to do. So be vulnerable. Put yourself out there, let go of your ego and you're going to create an amazing company culture. Jenna Kantor (19:37): Thank you so much. I was wondering where can people find you online if they want to try to reach out to you? Scott McAfee (19:44): So we are on Instagram @movementXinc and we are a online also www.movement-x.com. Keaton Ray (19:55): Note, our company name is movement X. No space, no dash, but our website is movement-x.com.   Jenna Kantor: Wonderful. Thank you so much. So thank you listeners for chiming in to this great discussion. This will also be in the bio as well. If you want to just check that out too, if you're having a hard time remembering what was just said on how to reach out to these fantastic individuals. Thank you so much.   Keaton Ray: You can also reach us at info@movement-x.com. We want to hear from you. We're always willing to hop on a phone call.     Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on iTunes!

What Does Fall Forward Mean? Fall forward they say. Fall forward and you cant ever fail. But of course what does this really mean? What does Fall Forward actually mean in real life when you are busy living life and simply trying to get by each day? Through Join Up Dots journey to where it is today, there has been many many times when we could have stopped running the show. We weren't getting the listeners, or the income, or simply the effort was too much. At those times we had a choice to make....do we keep on moving forward or just fall back into how life was before? That my friends is a big decision to make and one that we can answer without doubt - We were never going to go backwards, it was fall forwards all the way. How To Fall Forward With Ease I think the easiest way to fall forward is to be flexible as to what you want to achieve in life. You see if you only give yourself one or two options, and these dont go the way that you would like them to go then its going to be hard. You will look at your situation and think "I need to go backwards or at least change direction" However, if you are only look at the wider picture, and for example you want to be an actor instead of being James Bond then choose again - fall forward. I think that is sensible advice and one that can make the road to success so much enjoyable to take. Transcription Of Fall Forward With Denzel Washington David Ralph 0:01 Once upon a time, there was a guy with a dream a dream with his jobs for himself online and have a kick ass life working when he wanted him where he wanted across the world. Little did he know that dream would lead him into a world of struggle, burnout and debt, until he found the magic ingredient. And those struggles became a thing of the past. Oh man, of course, was bad person. And now My dream is to make things happen to you. Welcome to Join Up Dots. Intro 0:31 When we're young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be but somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here's your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph. David Ralph 0:57 Yes, hello. Good morning here. Good morning, and welcome. Come to a Join Up Dots. Yes, rolling into it feels like some have done it. It feels like summer. I'm looking at my window at the moment. I'm in a pair of shorts, a T shirt. And it looks like I could go running around the world, waving my manly body at people and I would be fine. But yeah, probably still cold outside, but it certainly feels like summer is on its way and it makes you feel good, doesn't it? It makes you feel good to feel that way. Well, today's episode is gonna be a very, very short one. But it's from a guy. It's from a guy called Scott who dropped me and he's he's dropped me a couple of emails recently giving me some advice about you know, content for the show. And I love that. I love that Scott. So thank you so much for dropping me alive. Because he does he knows I'm sitting here sometimes thinking bleeding Oh am I gonna do today because there's a lot of content to fill up. So if any of you guys are out there and you see something that's inspiring that you think you could share with the world. Drop it through At Join Up dots@gmail.com I'm just like Scott did. So Scott had sent me a video and he says, Mr. Ralph, you sexy man. As a longest term listener, I'm inspired by the value you give to people. Despite not being an entrepreneur, I'm a teacher, with a love of motivation and feel but below clip and these attached this clip could add relevance to your listeners. The clip offers two important pieces, which I believe are linked to your wider message number one, full forward of Yes, fall forward. I thought I said fail forward, my eyes are going fall forward, pull forward. When you fail, don't go back into the safety of previous living like you file but push on and work hard. Right? Okay. So that's the first great bit that we're going to hear. So there's all these things I see a lot of times when people will connect with me and say, Hey, I'm thinking of doing is doing XYZ and I actually had a message from lovely lady called Amy and Amy is hugely talented. As a sort of lounge singer, she's got this wonderful voice where she can, you know, sing, and it sounds like an old person's voice, but she's young and she's beautiful. So it's like the sort of 1950s or 1920s and I saw a video she gave me a video the other day of her doing gangster's Paradise by Coolio. And I like this. I didn't realise it was gangster's paradise until I got to the chorus, because it was such a different vibe, but she can do anything she wants. And now she has quit her job in a bank. And now she's transitioning to becoming a full time musician. And she connected with me and she said, I'm not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels so wrong at the moment. And I said, No, it's right. It's right because you were in comfort zone. You were in that that anchor but was rooting you to the spot. So do something if it doesn't feel right then do something else but just keep on moving forward. until you get to the dream because so many people, as Scott is referencing in this email will do something and go, Oh, don't like this and then go back. And I used to see that I used to work in insurance and banking. And people would sort of quit. And they would Well first of all, they would quit like, Oh, I I'm not happy here anymore. I want to go off and do my own thing. So they would leave an insurance company and go and work for an insurance company. It's the same thing, or other people will quit. And then you see him come back, and I go, No, don't as I say to people, you can't reheat a souffle, and I don't know where that phrase comes from. But basically, once you made a souffle, that's it. You can't ever make it. Do what he needs to do again. So don't go back. Don't go back. And the second point to this is give your ideas and potential a chance to flourish. Don't keep them locked away. Now the clip he sent me is a condensed version of a Denzel Washington speech. She will hear then We say Denzel over here but he says Denzel base that sounds a bit pompous. He didn't point to his originally by Les Brown. However, Denzel gets the point across concise and accurate. If you feel any of the clip has relevance and you'd like to add it to your sound clip repertoire, feel free to not only am I gonna do that, I'm gonna play the whole speech. So this is Denzel, a commencement speech speaking, like Steve Jobs does to a load of students. And he gives some great advice here is Denzel for forward. Fall Forward With Denzel Washington 5:34 This is what I mean. Reggie Jackson struck out 2600 times in his career the most in the history of baseball, but you don't hear about the strikeouts people remember the home runs Unknown Speaker 5:48 for forward. Fall Forward With Denzel Washington 5:50 Thomas Edison conducted 1000 failed experiments. Did you know that I didn't know that because the 1000 and first was the light bulb. Unknown Speaker 6:01 fall forward. Fall Forward With Denzel Washington 6:04 Every failed experiment is one step closer to success. You've got to take risks. And I'm sure you've probably heard that before. But I want to talk to you about why that's so important. I got three reasons and you can pick up your accident. Unknown Speaker 6:20 First, Fall Forward With Denzel Washington 6:23 you will fail at some point in your life accepted, you will lose, you will embarrass yourself, you will suck at something. There's no doubt about it. And I know that's probably not a traditional message for a graduation ceremony. But hey, I'm telling you embrace it, because it's inevitable. And I should know, in the acting business, you fail all the time early on in my career. I audition for a part in a Broadway musical. Perfect role for me I thought, except for the fact that I can't sing. So I'm in I'm about to go on stage. But the guy in front of me he's singing like, like, like Pavarotti just wrong. Just going on and on and on. And I'm just shrinking I'm getting smaller and smaller. So they say oh, thank you very much. Thank you very much and and you will you'll be hearing from us. So I come out with my little sheet music and it was it was a just my imagination by the temptations. That's what I came up with handed to the the accompanist and she looks at it and looks at me and looks at it the director and he's like, Alright, so I started, you know, I'm saying I'm coming away with me, and I'm not saying anything, so I'm thinking I'm getting better as I started to start getting into it. running this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Washington. Thank you. So I assumed I didn't get the job. But the next part of the audition, he called me back. The next part of the audition is the acting part of the audition. No, I'm like, hey, okay, maybe I can't sing, but I know I can act. So they pair me with this guy. And again, I didn't know about musical theatre. And musical theatre is big, so they can reach everyone all the way in the back of the stadium. And I'm more from a realistic naturalistic kind of acting where you, you know, you actually talked to the person next to me. So I don't know what my line was. My line was will hand me the cut. And his line was, well, I will hand you the cup, my dad, the cup will be there to be handed to you. Unknown Speaker 8:55 Okay. Fall Forward With Denzel Washington 8:58 Well Should I give you Come back. Oh, yes, give it back to me because you know, that is my cup, and it should be given back to me. I didn't get the job. But here's the thing. I didn't quit. I didn't fall back. I walked out of there to prepare for the next audition and the next audition and the next one is I prayed. I prayed. And I prayed. But I continue to fail and fail and fail, but it didn't matter because you know what? There's an old saying, You hang around the barbershop long enough, sooner or later you're going to get a haircut. So you will catch a break and I did catch a break. Last year I did a play called fences on Broadway. Someone talked about it won the Tony Award. I didn't have to sing by the way. But here's the kicker. It was at the Court Theatre. It was at the same theatre, that I failed that first audition 30 years prior. The point is, and I'll pick up the pace. The point is, every graduate here today has the training and the talent to succeed. But do you have the guts to fail? Is my second point about failure? If you don't fail? You're not even trying. I'll say it again. If you don't fail, you're not even trying. My wife told me this great expression. To get something you never had. You have to do something you never did. Les Brown's a motivational speaker. You made another analogy about this says, imagine you're on your deathbed. And standing around your deathbed are the ghosts representing your unfulfilled potential. The ghosts of the ideas you never acted on, the ghosts of the talents you didn't use, and they're standing around your bed, angry, disappointed and upset. They say we came to you, because you could have brought us to life they say. And now we have to go to the grave together. So I asked you today how many ghosts are going to be around your bed when your time comes? David Ralph 11:34 Isn't that powerful in that powerful that he just kept on going forward and bored. And as I was watching that I was referencing Join Up Dots because I've been doing it nearly seven years now six years of shows but seven years of preparation before I went live, and I have done so many things wrong. So many things. It's untrue. But just this week, I decided that I wasn't going to be on Facebook anymore. Personally, I found myself getting sucked into Facebook land. And so you can go over and you can hump for me. And I've deleted everything that I've ever done on Facebook in a personal manner. And as I was going through it, I kept on seeing all these names. And I think they were all over it. They were all over in the early stages, they were doing their own thing. They were hustling, and I don't see any of them. They've all given up, they've all moved on to other things. They just, they've changed direction or whatever, but that their face isn't visible in my world anymore. But I'm still going and I'm still moving. And I'm still standing as elton john said, and it's just getting better and better. And there's not a plan. Yes, I know so much. Now, there's so much I know about business. I'm teaching Tom and Glenn, one to one at the moment. they've signed up for my one to one business course and they are going to Life's changed because of what I've learned in the last seven years. But there was no blueprint for it. I just kept on trying things and moving forward and keep on going. And little by little things, find its shape and you find the success that you want. And it may not necessarily be the success you wanted in first place. Certainly, I had totally different dreams and, and ideals. When I started I wanted global domination I wanted to be famous, really, I suppose. And with podcasting, I don't think that's the right angle to go some people get that but it takes its toll on you. And now my goal is trying to get people to create their dream lives and move forward and learn online business and, and really give them the experience that I've I've gained, but there was no blueprint. I just kept on falling forward constantly every single day. Seven years even longer than that 15 years plus, some of my stuff has been online. And through that process, you get to where you want to be. So Scott, thank you so much for dropping us that line really, really appreciated it. What's that a couple of times I saw it about I don't know, a few years ago. And for some reason, I never brought it into the show. So powerful, powerful stuff. And really appreciate you taking the time, sir. And also for the other emails you've been sending through as well. So as I say, if anybody out there is watching YouTube or, or TV or wherever, and you see something, that's good, that's good. Send it through to us. And we will add it onto the show. And we'll give you a name check. And you can be famous in your own world, or just feel good, but you're actually helping other people. you're sharing the inspiration to get people to get their dream lives. And their little economists say I'm so inspired. Until next time, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for listening to Join Up Dots. Thank you so much for Denzel. And Scott, we'll see you again soon. Bye bye. You ready to make a full time living online? Check out the amazing Join Up Dots business coaching. Outro 15:10 Hello, my name is Alan. And I've just completed the excellent eight week course with David. Before I started working with David Actually, I had no idea at all, where to start. I had a lot of ideas about what I probably thought was going to be good in business. David was out to help me through that though, to find that passion. Within literally minutes. We had we had a business idea. And for the last seven weeks, we've been building on it and building on it and the position I'm in now, I don't think I've ever got here on my own Unknown Speaker 15:42 because of the amount of information that David gives the structure. He's got the full package here and he explains it in a way that I can understand. His support is is phenomenal. I feel like this is the way business is supposed to Unknown Speaker 15:56 work. David helped me understand Okay, what were the next logical steps that I shouldn't Do How can I get this up and running? So I would really recommend this as an excellent course helping you. If you have an idea if you have no idea, really teasing that out and at some of the practicalities and steps to take to really launch your business, whether as a full time job was a side hustle. So it was really excellent. I recommend it for anybody thinking about setting up their own business. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say David will totally save you, us. Thank you, David for all your amazing help and support which keeps on going. And we certainly couldn't be where we are today without you so your author, David Ralph 16:36 so if you would love to become my next success story and have your own life changing online business following my step by step system, buying tuned over many years to take away the effort and expense that others struggle with. Then come across to Join Up dots.com and book a free call with myself. Let's get you living the easy life as it's there waiting for you to get it. That is Join Up dots.com Nice coaching

Scott Meyers is a real estate investor based in Indianapolis. It all began in 2005 and since then he has grown in the self-storage industry as a developer, owner, syndicator, and operator. He has several multi-million dollar businesses under his belt but his favorite is self-storage and today he is in control of over 7,500 units. Scott started ‘The Self-Storage Mastermind’ to teach others about the self-storage business.  In today’s episode, he discusses how he entered the real estate industry, why he’s chosen to grow with self-storage, and what one should keep in mind before investing in a facility. He gives us insight on one of his memorable deals over the years- what happened, what he learned and what’s going on with it today.  Some Of The Episode Highlights: His Self-Storage Business His ‘Why’ in Self-Storage The ‘Boomerang Property’ Special Gift for Our Listeners    Connect with Scott: Website: selfstorageinvesting.com   - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  TRANSCRIPTION Intro: Hey guys, this is Don, your host. In today's episode, I will interview Scott Myers. Scott is an amazing investor and he specializes in one of the most interesting asset classes, self-storage facilities. Today, me and Scott will discuss the nature of this market. Also, as previously mentioned, I want to remind you that you have an opportunity to get a free 30-minute phone call with me and Eden if you review our podcast on iTunes. Simply rate the podcast and write a review of how you feel about the content and the show. To redeem, email us the content of the review to Hello@donandeden.com. You will then be contacted and scheduled for a 30-minute phone call with me and Eden, where you could ask questions or network about any subject or project that you would like. So, let's get started and I hope you guys will enjoy the interview. Lady: Welcome to the commercial real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden where we cover all aspects of real estate investing with special attention to off-market strategies. Don: Scott, welcome to the show. How are you doing today? Scott: Hey, Don, I am fantastic. How about yourself? Don: I'm great. How's the weather up in Indiana? Scott: Well, that depends. We had our first snowfall of the year last night. It had about three inches, which is a little bit more than we normally get this time of year. So, I think I'd rather be down next to you conducting this interview right now. Don: Yeah, I mean, we just got the best weather right now in Florida. It's been very muggy for November, 75 degrees all throughout. I used to live in the Midwest, and I know it kind of gets cold in that period of time of the year, right? Scott: Sure can. Yep. Don: Yes. You've been living in Indiana, all of your life, born and raised? Scott: Born and raised in Michigan. I went to the University of Michigan and after I graduated, I moved down to Indianapolis where I took a job. I was working in the telecommunications industry before I got involved in real estate. Don: Wow. Okay, so that's a pretty sharp transition. What made you move into real estate? Scott: When I began looking in investment books on ways to I guess diversify my retirement rather than relying on our 401k stocks and bonds and mutual funds ran across several books, one of which was Robert Kiyosaki's book terms in real estate and the more I looked at more I realized that I didn't want to put my money into the stock market as the poor dad did in Robert Kiyosaki's book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad.' And so, I began investing in single-family homes and then it took off after that. Don: Yeah, let's talk about your initial investments in the single-family space. What did you do, fix and flip? Scott: Began to buy single-family homes, and then fix them up, refinance them and rent them out. And I did that for a number of years until holding. It's kind of a tough gig holding on as a landlord unless you're flipping some as well. So once the economy began to turn in 1999 and 2000 during that downturn, shortly after the government came out with the Community Reinvestment Act, and made it easy, a little too easy for anybody to own a home and so we began then turning around our houses to sell them. So, we became retailers in addition to landlords. Don: Nice. I know right now you're focusing primarily on self-storage. Tell us about the first time you got to learn about this asset class and this market in general. Scott: Began looking into self-storage because of, well, that wasn't the cash flow that I wanted to have in single-family homes and apartments on like I had intended. And then when I went back and looked at the business model, I realized that most of my expenses were a result of a related to tenants and toilets and trash. And so, we all love real estate and we love running real estate if it weren't for that. So, I began looking into what are the other asset classes in real estate that has the benefits of real estate, but without all the hassles of the three T's. And it's either parking lots or self-storage. And so, the more I begin to look into self-storage in the business model, yeah, I really liked what I saw. And began attending some industry trade shows, then dip my toe in the water by getting into a partnership with someone in a self-storage facility. And the rest they say is history. Don: Yeah. So, there is a question that I want to ask you. I know now that you're very big on the self-storage space and you own or you're in control of over 7500 units, I’m guessing in self-storage just since 2005. So, you've been a longtime player in that space, but I want to ask you more about the beginning because I remember I just recently did a transition from residential wholesale real estate into commercial real estate. And even then, being an experienced investor and owning a lot of properties and having capital, it's not easy. So, you said something about going to shows and learning about... So, tell us a little bit about that period of time where you did not make your first deal in self-storage yet, but very attracted to that asset class and what you did in that time period, how much time did it take for you to get your first deal? Scott: There weren't any resources. You found me, Don because we have an education company as well. We teach people how to go about and do this business and we've been doing that since 2008. But prior to that, that company was really born as a result of that. There wasn't a resource, there wasn't a Scott Meyers out there to learn from it. So, I attended the industry trade shows and those shows are primarily for the folks that are already in the business.  So, I begin talking to the attendees and just asking them, "What do you like best about self-storage and what don't you like about self-storage?" just to get an understanding from several folks that before me and how to get into it. There still wasn't any way to learn the nuts and bolts, the A to Z or how to get into it. When I came home as I began to do more research on my own, I reached out to a consultant in the industry and I spent a day with him and drove around and taking notes and asking about it.  He owned a management company as well. And he managed several facilities for other folks. I asked him as many questions as I possibly could to fill in the gaps and I filled up three notebooks full of paper, just answering the questions that I had about the business and I, like you, been in multifamily and apartments and I understood commercial real estate. But all the nuances and all the intricacies of self-storage to bridge that gap and fill in the gaps took me all day and a bunch of notes and even then there was no way to get it all but that's how I started. And then just sort of trial by the fire going out and talking to other owners and brokers and begin exploring and looking at several facilities to buy. Don: Okay, tell us a little bit about the market itself. So, what are the biggest players, what is considered a big property? I know so when you're looking at multifamily anything over 200 units is considered very big. Mobile home parks, anything over 150 is considered institutional. So, what would you say is a big deal when you talk about self-storages? Scott: Yeah, we're in that 400 to 450 unit range and which equates to roughly greater than 60,000 square feet. Those facilities that are larger than those are the ones that are going to be typically institutional, so those are the ones are going to be held by Public Storage or Extra Space or Bridge or CubeSmart number of the big players or reads in the marketplace. Now not all the time we own several facilities that are that size as well with the goal and the intention of eventually off to the reeds and that's what we're developing and building now. That's really what's considered the big boys. And so the reeds are the institutional properties and facilities that size you know, that only accounts for about nine to 10% of all the units and all the square footage of self-storage are below that and are owned by some regional players that own you know, 1, 2, 5, 7 properties. Some national players that aren't considered and then a lot of the mom and pops that we buy our facilities from that can go all the way down to as low as 15 between units per facility. Don: Okay. So, mom and pop are always good because you can get a pretty good deal. Somebody that owned the property for quite a while, they have a lot of equity typically and there is a lot of value-added. So, I would assume that the value adds basically comes to play when talking about raising up the rents, right? So, they're just not fulfilling their potential. Scott: Yeah, that's absolutely one of the ways that we look at. We're always looking at turnarounds and value adds and the first of which is usually what you just mentioned is usually poor management. They haven't raised rents in a while because they like to stay full, they have fallen behind on technology and we do utilize software and kiosks to manage these facilities or at least help to manage these facilities, which reduces our payroll, which is our second highest expense, line-item expense next to property taxes. In many cases, not all the cases many of the mom and pops didn't understand how to market their facility, therefore they suffer from a lower occupancy than if they were running very well and had a better website and then a means for people to rent a unit or reserve units online. Don: Yeah, what would you say are the biggest minds or the things you should be careful when you're buying a self-storage, especially when underwriting a deal? Scott: Well, the normal due diligence that we go through first the physical side, we hire an inspector, we do our site visits and we hire an inspector to look at all the physical aspects with the underwriting. As you know Don, that some in commercial real estate, you make a $10,000 mistake and underwriting and just at a 10 cap is $100,000 valuation mistake that you've made. But in today's seven or six cap environment, we're talking about $120,000 - $130,000 mistake. So, it's making sure that if we're buying it from a seller and individual seller, or if we're buying from a broker, we need to get the seller's numbers, and all of the expenses. So, it has an art and a science to it. But the science part is just knowing exactly what to ask for. And in self-storage versus apartments versus mobile home parks, there are expenses that are associated with each one of those asset classes.  So it's important to know what are the expenses of running a self-storage facility and making sure that your account for that. And as I'm sure you're used to and telling your folks as well but just because the seller and the broker don’t include it has zero alongside an expense sentiment doesn't mean it's going to be zero for you. So, management of lawn care and landscaping and snow removal, if that manager does that, or their employer does that, well, they're not going to do it for you so you need to add those expenses in. So, I think that's one of the places where people get tripped. Another is the change in property taxes.  If you run it for a million dollars, and the last time it was assessed was at $500,000 and in this county, they assess based upon a sale, you can expect your property taxes to double roughly and so you need to account for that and underwriting that you're different set of expenses when you buy it versus what is given to you by the seller. So you know, we can go through each and every one of those but just making sure that you pull all the bills and you all of the information in terms of all the income coming into the facility, as well as all the expenses of that underwriting based upon that to give your valuation and your offer. But then we always have two sets of numbers that we use afterward, which is how we're going to run it today meaning 30 days after we bought and then what does it look like in the next one to five years down the road once we have stabilized it and added more value. Don: Okay, and what does it look like as far as the demand and the supply for self-storage facilities across the United States when we're talking about late 2019? I know that people are buying and we're consuming a lot more than what we used to, especially those you can buy everything online right now. And I know people have a lot of things that they want to store. What is your take on this industry and the direction in which it's going in the future for 5 or 10 years? Scott: What we're seeing right now is a demand for self-storage. We always look at supply; supply and demand for a particular market. And the good news is that we draw a ring around a particular site if we have developed for an existing facility of about three miles, five miles as if it's rural or one mile if you’re in downtown Miami. But then we're looking at the amount of self-storage square footage already in that market in a three-mile radius, compared to the population in our industry is considered somewhere between six and a half to seven and a half square person. And it depends upon the market and there are some areas that are quite a bit different than that. But that's kind of a round number. And so, that alone gives us an idea of what the demand is. So, then we visit those facilities and determine if that truly is the case, if they have waiting lists, the rental rates in the market will also be an indicator of what the demand is, obviously. And so, then we base it upon that, but there's only four square foot of storage per person in this market, and the rates are considerably higher than we see around the rest of the country and all the facilities are full and have waiting lists, then there's probably a need for some storage there. In the case of development, we're also going to get a feasibility study on just like you do Don when your billing departments often saying, "Yeah, we think it's going to work, we have to get a feasibility study before the bank will give us money and private equity partners as well." But that's how we look at it in today, in real-time for looking at a facility to develop or even to turn around.  Now in terms of moving forward or looking forward, we don't see a whole lot of changes being the demand for self-storage. And we don't have a crystal ball that is perfect, but we keep an eye on trends and we've seen in the past, we've seen that the baby boomers have created a huge demand for self-storage as they've been downsizing and moving into assisted living and then passing on. Their kids store their items in storage for the future.  But then the concerned about the millennials that perhaps they wouldn't have the same demand and self overseeing just the opposite. Yeah, they're minimalists, they have smaller homes or apartments because they want to give them up and go travel instead of having a house or they want to live in a smaller home. But they like adventures and experiences and adventures and experiences require skis and gear and mountain bikes and camping gear and kayaks and all those other things. And they don't fit in in their tiny houses or apartments or condos. And so we've seen an even greater surge in demand for self-storage, and we see that happening in the foreseeable future. Don: So, you wouldn't think there are any major disruptors coming in the form of let's say, multi families that are being built with storage facilities inside them. Would you say that this is a disrupter? Scott: I don't think so. Because sometimes they are done either on the grounds and in the basement in some of those areas. For they're doing that to a degree but we haven't seen that effect because if you're going to build apartment and you already have construction crew on-site, you're going to maximize the living space because you're going to generate a heck of a lot more revenue per square foot in living space, and you are for storage. So it's an amenity that they can put in place, but not to the degree that it meets the demand for the entire area or the market. So, we may lose a few of those clients in a three-mile radius, but it certainly doesn't speak to the entire market that we're marketing to if that makes sense. Don: Yeah, it makes sense. So where are you focusing on buying these self-storage facilities? Are you buying across the country or you're looking at particular markets and then when you're looking into a market? I know when I'm looking for mobile home parks or multi-families, that I'm looking for job growth and population growth and understanding the environment of the market. Are you doing anything different when you're looking into a self-storage facility, are there different stats that you got to understand before moving in? Scott: When I was also in homes and apartments and we're always looking for the emerging markets that were always a buzzword and some of the guru's had created. And you always want to see where there's growth in those markets. And that's always like that as well. Because if you see, you see self-storage facilities going up. Typically, they're going out not too far from apartments in a growing market, we're not too far away, they go hand in hand or in step with one another. But the good news about self-storage, unlike apartments and single-family rentals is that in a downturn in the economy, or even in a market that is experiencing a little bit of a decline in population or maybe some job loss in self-storage, we're in the trauma and transition business.  If there's trauma, people losing their jobs are having to move they need storage, and they're downsizing and moving back with their parents are moving in with somebody else. And so that creates a need for storage. We've seen during the last recession and everyone prior to that self-storage does extremely well because businesses are downsizing. So, as we head into a changing economy, we feel that we're in good shape. When we're in a growing market or growing economy, people buy more stuff or there are more people to store things therefore there's a need for storage. But even if there's a downturn in a particular market that is losing jobs, there's a need for storage and self-storage does extremely well.  Now doesn't mean that we do great in every single market in every single economy. The one caveat or the one market in which we wouldn't do well, and as those in which there's just a new extreme blight or a flight. So, if there are several manufacturers are leaving, and there are thousands of jobs that are leaving a market. That there are some instances that we've seen that or even New Orleans when Katrina came through and wipe them out, there's lots of areas within a three-mile radius that the population is so low that self-storage facilities are struggling, same in Detroit and Flint, Michigan, exited as the auto industry has left, the same thing. So, we do have to be careful that there is an extreme blight in those markets but we like just about every market and every economy for storage. Don: Yeah, but I would think that whenever there's an extreme blight in the market, then it's not going to be just self-storage is not going to be affected. It's going to be all types of real estate... Scott: Exactly. And you're right. Don: It doesn't really matter. So, I want to ask you about a specific deal. One that you remember, one for the ages is what we call it. So that you can intrigue everybody that's listening to this episode about self-storages and is considering to get into space, something that you bought, made good money and it was interesting and intriguing. So, tell us about one of those. Scott: Yeah. So, this is a property, it was a larger property that I bought back in 2007, so just prior to the Great Recession. I bought the property for $1.5 million with no money down, I used seller financing and a bank and bank debt on it. And it was an industrial building that had offices in it and warehousing, but we converted a large portion of it to outdoor parking for storage is the indoor self-storage. So, we put about $400,000 with a bank loan into the project and we had $1.9 into it. Then in 2007, at the end of it, so about two and a half years later, we sold it prior to the recession of 2008 and we sold about a $2 million profit on that one.  Then came the recession and the buyer went bankrupt because he was a developer out of California and had lost his portfolio, retain the rights to market some of those properties, this being one of them. So, he offered it to me several times over the next several years, and the price kept coming down, down and down and then finally I was able to buy it back for $545,000. And so that's when we get good at syndicating as we mentioned Don when you run out of cash. We've leased it back up again and we've rehabbed them and renovated several areas, leased up the storage, added more storage to it. And it's under contract to sell right now for just a little shy of $3 million. Don: So, you made $2 million the first time and then a little bit over $2 million the second time. It is coming back to you giving you $2 million whenever you work with it. Scott: We affectionately call it 'The Boomerang Property,' so yeah. Don: That is just great, that's phenomenal. Okay, that's beautiful. You bought the property, that was luck also buying it right on time and selling it just before the recession, won't you say? Scott: We had that thing leased up so that we really couldn't create much more value in it. It was at the top, it would have just been through some minor rate increases. And so, we didn't foresee the recession coming and certainly not the magnitude that it was. So, I absolutely will not pretend that I knew what was happening. So yes, we were fortunate enough to be able to sell it at that time when financing was plentiful, and he was able to buy it and that was really good timing. And boy, we learned a lot of lessons through that recession. Fortunately, we weren't holding that one during that time. Don: Okay. What market was it? Scott: That was here in Indianapolis. Don: Nice. Great. That's very interesting. And I'm sure everybody that's listening could see that you could make $2 million on a self-storage facility, one that you bought for $2 million or was in for $2 million. That's amazing! That's a 100% return on your investment. That's great. What book would you recommend for somebody to read in case they already read 'Think And Grow Rich' and 'Rich Dad Poor Dad?' Scott: Wow, let me see here. Don: Difficult question, huh? Scott: It is. I'm just looking at my bookshelf of the many things we’re utilizing our company right now as we scale and grow just depending upon where folks are at is 'Traction'. So, it's more than just a book. It's where Gino Whitman talks about the entrepreneur operating system and really how we as entrepreneurs need to handle and run our business and treat it as a business no matter what the size is. So, I would strongly recommend 'Traction' by Gino Wickman. That is the one that's probably had the biggest impact on us recently. This is for yourself as well as any staff that you may be bringing on are the Four Disciplines of Execution or 4DX all about just getting things done. Bestseller on our wall street journal number one, and again loads of information on how to, well, just how to get things done and how to not make excuses or procrastinate and move the ball forward in your business. Don: Yeah, it seems that procrastinating is always one of the keys to failure. Everybody's saying to never procrastinate, always take action and get things done. Amazing. Yeah. So Scott, what's the best way to connect with you in case anybody wants to learn more about self-storage is or invest with you or anything of that nature? Scott: Sure. Well, selfstorageinvesting.com is our website with all things self-storage, and lots of freebies to download and some videos. But I got a little something that I want to give to your folks done specifically for being on this podcast. If you want the beginning a roadmap or what we call the blueprint into self-storage, you'll go to that same site http://selfstorageinvesting.com/blueprint1/ the numeral one behind it. It’ll show you the steps that you need to follow to get involved in this incredible business that we call self-storage. Don: Well Scott, thank you very much for sharing that with our audience and I hope that you're going to have a great day and thank you for being on the show today. Scott: My pleasure. Thank you, Don. Don: Yes, you're welcome. You have a great rest of your day Scott: You too. Lady: Thanks for listening to the real estate investing podcast with Don and Ethan. Stay tuned for more episodes. Till next time.

Scott Voelker, the amazing seller himself, is back on the podcast today with a new book that will guide entrepreneurs on a path to financial freedom. Scott has transformed from someone who dabbled in e-commerce into a seven figure business owner, author, and host of one of the most popular e-commerce podcasts out there. Now he is sharing his tips with other entrepreneurs, offering sets of specific steps to follow to create a business that will allow freedom and flexibility. From the construction career he left at an early age to starting and building a successful photography business, Scott has built on his entrepreneurial nature for over two decades. In 2008 he started selling photography products online and soon realized it could become a full time income. Fast forward a few more years and he started to hear more about Amazon FBA model and how some people were making good money using the platform. He started researching and listening to any valuable information he could garner then used all the know-how he'd gathered and applied it to his product listings. Episode Highlights: How Scott and his wife got their start building a business from the ground up. Scott discusses the path he took and how the book delves into his future plans. Whether he finds the pathway to the end goal more difficult than five to ten years ago. How Scott is evolving from being “The Amazon Guy.” Helping others with the book and the action steps he outlines. Scott addresses the question of finding time to start a side hustle. Learning how to schedule downtime once success allows for less work time. Tips for finding that future-proof opportunity. Taking the affiliate marketing path as an opportunity to learn your market. Using channel diversification as a building block. Transcription: Mark: Joe recently I sent you a book through Amazon that I was hoping you would read and I'm assuming that's the next book on your reading list, right? Joe: No. Sorry. Mark: I'm not going to buy you any more gifts. Joe: No. Now you sent it to me via Amazon and I think I have to download it onto my Kindle app. Mark: You haven't even downloaded it? Joe: I haven't even downloaded it. Mark: Oh my goodness. Joe: You're just trying me. See the reason I haven't is because it's a productivity book and you're trying to get me to be more productive but I haven't read it yet so I'm not as productive as I could be. Do you see an excuse thing going on here? Mark: Productivity is one of those things that I'm sure everybody's like Joe is terrible at getting stuff done. Joe: This book I'm holding out for those that are on the YouTube channel. Thank you for being on the YouTube channel, by the way, you're awesome. This is the book I'm currently reading it's called the Take Action effect By Scott Voelker; a friend of ours and we just had him on the podcast. And that's what the book is all about. It's a combination of, and this is why I'm not reading the book you sent me. And I have one more in front of that by the way but this one is amazing it's really telling Scott's story. Scott as lot of people know has a podcast called The Amazing Seller podcast. With the audience he has every month he could fill up the Bank of America Stadium here in Charlotte and I think that's like 25, 30,000 people. He started out just telling his story building an Amazon business and everything he was going through. He just laid it all out on the line. He's really transferred himself or transformed himself into someone that is first and foremost helping people take action in their lives and he talks about this in the book and how he did certain things in his life and what an impact it had and what it led to next and next and next and now where he's at running a 7 figure business with the lifestyle that he wants. It's still one of the most important things about Scott and the book and the action steps that he shows people how to take is to run a business, set your own goals, how to set goals properly with vision boards and different things but with a lifestyle that you want. This is not a get rich quick scheme it's a book to build the life that you want; how to take certain steps and actions and if you want to run a 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 million dollar business great. These will help and there are some examples of that; of people that are doing that. But if you want to just earn an extra couple of thousand dollars on the side and build the business slowly there are absolutely some steps in there for those folks as well; people that are listening now that still have full time jobs that don't dare buy a business this allows them to take certain steps and actions to do that and build a safe business that's going to be relatively passive that they could do part-time as they build that up and eventually quit your day job work and sell it through Quiet Light. Mark: One of the things I like about this is the idea of having a purpose to what you're doing. And I think there is this tendency to chase success, chase success, chase success, and we put in our minds that success is a certain business goal while we ignore the other aspects of our life. And I know over the past 13 years running Quiet Light Brokerage I've run across so many successful entrepreneurs who have built amazing businesses but frankly are somewhat miserable because they've built prisons for themselves. And we talk about why are people selling. Sometimes it's just because they've built that prison of a business and they need to get out. And they realize that they need to readjust their life priorities. I love when we meet people like Scott, like Ezra Firestone, and some of these other guys that have reached certain levels of success and now what they're doing is they're really trying to just be helpful and really contribute to that entrepreneurial community with some of the lessons they've learned. And I love the focus of this book. I love that it's a system out there to help you identify what's really important and have everything else flow into that, set the real goals out there and build that system including the business that fits those goals. Joe: And it's just that Scott is a real guy giving real-life examples of things that he's done and the path that he's taken and he's giving real advice here that is action-oriented. And it's a mindset. It's inspiration. And they're steps to take as well. It's one of the best books I've read in 2019. I highly recommend everybody take a listen to the podcast and at the end and in the show notes here you can go to take action effect and download or buy the book. It's available. He went further than our very own Walker Deibel, he made it available in the audio version as well. Mark: Walker needs to step his game up and start a recording. No. Fantastic. Let's get to this episode here. I love introducing our audience to people that we find to be good friends of Quiet Light because they share some of our mission and purpose. So I'm excited to share this episode with everybody. Joe: Let's get to it. Joe: Hey folks Joe Valley here from the Quiet Light Podcast and today I have a guest that is back on. But this time he is a published author on his way I'm sure to being a best-selling author. Scott Volker, welcome to the Quiet Light Podcast. Scott: What's going on Joe? Thanks so much for having me. Joe: Welcome back I should say. I just saw you a couple of weeks ago at Brand Accelerator Live; a fantastic event where you launched the book, a big hit and my goodness I'm looking at some of the reviews and they're fantastic. And I'm reading it myself of course. And let's get into that but first for those folks that don't actually know who you are why don't you tell us all about Scott Voelker? Scott: Yeah. Well to kind of sum it up I've been at this basically creating businesses that allow me to have the flexibility, the freedom, that's always my first and foremost. Back when I was like 21 years old I was working for my father's construction company and from there I thought I was going to own that company one day and then that partnership and son in law that was stealing and some craziness I soon saw that that wasn't the path that I was going to take. But I wanted to still be able to work for myself and my wife and I started a photography business, learned the ropes through good old trial and error, and built that into a business that allowed us to take our kids to school and home from school and all of that stuff. And it's really important me to watch my kids grow up and I've got 3 kids ages now 11, 21, and 24. But I've been at this for over 18 years and really building businesses hasn't really changed just the platforms have changed. And so when I wrote this book I wanted to go through and tell the story of myself. Someone that didn't have a college degree and felt a long time ago that I kind of felt to myself like I wasn't smart because I didn't go to college. But then after kind of building some businesses and watching other people go to their 60 plus hour a week job and then seeing myself not have to do that I was like well wait a minute I'm going to give myself a little bit more credit. I've done okay. And so it in a nutshell that's what I do. I just love building businesses. But I like more about just building a business it's more about the freedom and the flexibility, stability and all that stuff. Joe: And that is what you talk about in the book. Let me just; I don't think I said what the name of the book is. It's called The Take Action Effect. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Proven Steps To Build a Future Proof Business And Create Your Ultimate Freedom. I'll hold it up here for those folks that are on the podcast; I'm sorry on the YouTube channel. Scott: Yeah. Joe: One of the things that you talk about in the book really hit home with me and that is that your wife had that first idea for you to go off and on your own. Scott: Yeah. Joe: And it's and it's continued in your relationship. You guys work through all of your business opportunities and ideas together, right? Scott: Yeah, 100%. I mean she was my take action moment as I talk about in the book a lot. I think we all have these moments in our life that something happens; like a decision happens that we make either because we're forced to and then we see the result from it or we choose to, we take that leap. And I was frustrated with my job and I thought I was going to own this company and then found out that it wasn't going to probably happen and we needed to figure out another way. And then that's when my wife had said maybe we should start a photography business which at the time we didn't have digital it was all film based not YouTube videos to go out there and educate yourself. So Scott that wasn't a good student in school had to figure out how to go through and teach myself Photoshop and just how to run a studio and we did that. But yes she was the one with the idea and still to this day she's always the one kind of nudging me a little bit and saying like you should probably listen to this. Even the podcast The Amazing Seller Podcast that was because she said that you should; I had the idea but she was likey should probably lean into that a little bit and here we are. Joe: That's funny you know my wife usually has the idea and then I have to go out and do it. It's a running joke in 20 plus years of marriage. I was going to I think our wives are very similar. Our marriages are very similar but it sounds like there's one distinct difference is that my wife comes up with the idea and I have to execute. So you're taking a lot of past so it's interesting from a construction worker to entrepreneur in the photography space before really the online world existed and then discovering it through eBay and then Amazon and then The Amazing Seller podcast. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Can you just talk about that path a little bit and talk about what the Part 2 of this business about this book talks about? Scott: Yeah. So like I said the photography business being brick and mortar I learned a lot about how to get clients in the door. And a lot of people say like Scott when you start a business should it be your passion. And if it could be then yes that would be amazing because then you would love to work on it every day. But I wasn't passionate about photography. I was passionate about getting out of my job. So my wife was passionate about photography but then I started to develop these passions and that was marketing and that was Photoshop and video editing. And the way that it kind of led me to really the online space and e-commerce really was my wife was looking for props on eBay. So in our business, we always were unique in the way that we had props. We had certain sets and we had like a lot of backgrounds that cost us 2 or $3,000 and people would pay just to come in because we had this hand-painted backdrop. So my wife was looking for this cedar bridge that she had seen somewhere else and she found one on eBay. It was like 130 bucks it was a little 4-foot little wooden cedar bridge. And so then as she was looking at one of the other stores that she shops at she's seen the same bridge for 30 bucks and she's like it's selling for 130. I bought one for 130 maybe we should try to sell this thing. I said okay. So then that's where we got the idea and we started selling those. Actually, we took the minivan over to the store and we loaded it up and we packed that thing and that money actually paid for our kids tuition for a private school. And so that opened my eyes to eBay and like what else could I sell, right? And even though I had a business I'm still thinking to myself as an entrepreneur like well that wasn't that hard. Maybe I should try to find more things to sell. So then we actually started a video business on the side of our photography business; they kind of work too, you know one of the same. And then I started building these projectors to transfer old 8-millimeter film. So the old 8-millimeter film that we use to have grown up as kids it was a lot of times silent film but there was some sound when it got; I think it was Super 8 and then I found a machine that was modified to transfer the film. And so when I got that I kind of looked at it and being in the construction world I'm like this is just a modified projector. Let me go ahead and reverse engineer what they did here and I did that and I started selling them on eBay for about 800 bucks. I was selling one or two of them a week. Joe: Wow. Scott: Yeah, so I made about 100,000 on just old projectors that I modified for film transfer and that's kind of what got my wheels spinning about this online stuff. Joe: And it never would have happened if you didn't; I'm going say this so many times, taken some action, right? Entrepreneurs are special people. They come up with an idea and they don't think about it and think about it and think about it and think about it. They've got to do some planning, of course, the more complex world we live in you've got to do some planning especially when you're going to spend some dollars. But I think maybe Scott back then when you and I didn't have any gray hair we were able to take action a little simpler and a little quicker, right? I would just with that whole ready aim fire or ready fire aim what is it? Scott: Yeah. Joe: Those things, right? And I just take my path and hustle and work hard and get it done and figure out the road to that end goal which I knew what the end goal was. I just didn't know the road or the path. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Are you finding now given that you've; I mean you've done all this for 20 years an entrepreneur in many, many different past and you've coached thousands of people through The Amazing Seller podcast and many of them 6, 7, 8, 10 figure exit eventually. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Are you finding that the pathway to that end goal whether it's an eventual exit of a business or just a one of a lifestyle where you can drive your kids to work every day and spend more time with your spouse and you take family vacations, is it more difficult than it used to be in your opinion? Scott: I think it depends on what your final outcome is. I think for a lot of people it's not about building an 8 figure business just to say you built an 8 figure business; to some people it is. It's like bragging rights but for a lot of people; and I know you told me a story about a guy he was a stay at home dad I think and he built his company in 2 years without pulling a dime out of it so they could cash it out and then live off of that and live the life that they wanted. So I think for a lot of people it is that. So for me personally I think it is I don't want to say easy; it's simple. Nothing is easy. Like everything that I've ever done, there's always been struggles and issues that you have to overcome; whatever like that's business. You just have to learn how to adapt, how to move, and adjust. But I think it is actually easier nowadays to build a business that you can potentially exit. And actually getting to know you more, getting to know the team over at Quiet Light has actually got my wheels spinning once again at looking at this as an opportunity for me to build something maybe from scratch, get it to a certain level, and then sell it, and then you just repeat that process. Like I could build a team to just help me do that. So again my wheels are always spinning. And the more I talk to you and I start hearing these stories I'm like that seems like a pretty straightway to go. But the principles and the concepts are pretty much the same. They haven't really changed. And that's what is in the book is really these pillars; these core things that make up a market, make up products, make up traffic; like all of that stuff hasn't really changed. The platforms change but the principles never change. Joe: You addressed some of the approaches in Part 2 of the book about building your future proof business. Scott: Yeah. Joe: You started out as an Amazon guy, right? You were selling on Amazon telling your story in the podcast but you've evolved quite a bit. Can you address that and then we'll talk about how the book addresses it as well? Scott: Well yeah but the book itself actually is my pivot. So we talk about pivoting all the time. So when I started the podcast you're right I was getting into the Amazon game just like everyone else was. It's just I was kind of doing it and other people were just kind of consuming information and saying like I'll wait until we have all the pieces that are working or all of the answers, right? Joe: You were telling your story whether it was a success or a failure and everybody was listening. Scott: Exactly. And so as I started to do that I also started to see how the market was shifting. So when the podcast was started it was Scott the Amazon guy. And then after I started to kind of see that the market was changing, more competition was coming, and it was getting a little bit riskier I'm like I don't want to go down that road. Now that doesn't mean it can't work. I just don't want the headaches of constantly just worrying that my accounts are going to get shut down or whatever. So I'm like I'm going to go back to basics build a business from skill sets that I've built and I talk a lot about that in the book like everything we've done we've built skill sets that we can then leverage in the future. So for me to really go down that road of like okay where was I van and where am I now, it's all about evolving; all about growing. I mean I think we're all doing that as we learn more things like even like when I first started I didn't think about having a brand that I could exit. And now I'm thinking; a lot of times I'm thinking to myself could this brand be sold, what would it take to sell this business? So a lot of times I'm thinking more along those lines now. But like I said people are always kind of like thinking of me as the Amazon guy and I don't want to be known; I don't want to 20 years from now be Scott the Amazon guy. I want to be the guy that helped people build a business that allowed them the life that they want and that they deserve. Joe: That's what I'm seeing with the people that I've met that have listened to your podcast and then to your events and are connected with you in any way. Whether it's Brand Accelerator Live, your inner circle Mastermind group, or The Amazing Seller podcast; they're not just building Amazon businesses, they're building businesses that will allow them to live the life that they choose to first and foremost. Scott: Right. Joe: Some of them that's all about building value and exiting and others it's all about taking care of others. Rachel; I had a conversation with one of your followers, listeners, attendees, whatever you want to call them, Rachel we don't use the last name but an amazing story. She's building a business so that she can help others. Scott: Yes. Joe: She's going to make money off the business but that's not the focus. The goal is to be able to use that money to help others foster children charities and things of that nature; really good people. You're building good humans which I think is terrific. You're surrounding yourself with them as well. Scott: It's pretty awesome. It's funny Joe I was just listening to the Ask Scott session that we recorded there live at Brand Accelerator and it just happened that the one lady came up and was telling us about her problem and her problem was is that she was wondering how she was going to keep up with the amount of scale. And I said that's a real bad problem to have. And I knew you were in there; I thought you were in there and I called you out and I go I think this is a question for Joe later kind of let him help you on that. But it's really; it's pretty rewarding to sit there and think to yourself I had something to do just because I showed up, pressed record, and started helping people. That right there that will; to me that surpasses any amount of money that I can make from a podcast is hearing other people's stories and how they're set up now to really live the life or maybe donate to their charity. That's like again the effect of the take action is the effects of that we're able to do the ripple effect on other people but also on your life and your business. So it's really about the ripple effect all the way through. Joe: Yeah, not necessarily about just building that business and exiting it. It's everybody involved along the way. Scott: 100%. Joe: That lady was Karen by the way and she did have some good problems, right? People wish to have her problems. Scott: Growth every year, year after year, and I don't know… Joe: Yeah. How do I keep up with buying more inventory? One of the things that you talked about which I think is really, really important both in the book and on stage and I'm going to just summarize for anybody listening. This book really encapsulates everything Scott's done in his life and what you've done in your life, Scott. But then it also gives a pathway to taking action and seeing what the impact and effect of that action is. But someone said look I'm busy I've got a full-time job. I'm trying to do this. How did you find the time for that? How do you find the time for this if you; you're an advocate of don't quit your day job if you have one do a little side hustle and build this over time until it's safe to exit. How would you address that question but Scott I just don't have time? Scott: Yeah and I actually I address this on stage when I came to that point because I shared my story that I was working 60 plus hours a week for my father's company running I think was like 13, 14 guys at one time that were underneath me making sure that those jobs got done. So I was always the first one there and the last one to leave like always. On the side, I was building a house from scratch. I was like 25 years old. Joe: That took a little time. Scott: It took me 11 months. And I remember Joe my mother in law lived up on the Hill. She lived probably I don't know maybe 500 or 1,000 feet. She was up on a hill though and she could look down and see the property. We had two acres. And I remember one night I wanted to get this one spot on the house done outside. It was up in the peak. I had a 30-foot ladder up against the house and I had floodlights out there at 2 o'clock in the morning because I wanted to finish. She couldn't sleep because she was worried about me going to fall and I'm up there nailing up my siding because I wanted to get that peak done because I didn't want to come back to it the next day and do it. And then I got up at 6x o'clock and I went to work. So when people say I don't have time I don't have sympathy for that because you probably have time you just are not really wanting it bad enough in my eyes. You know what you're watching your TV show or maybe you're taking an extended lunch break or maybe you're just oh I need my 8 hours of sleep you know like get 6 for a month, right? I mean it's not going to kill you but if you really want it bad enough you will find the time. And I've done it. My photography business when I was learning that when I was getting ready to leave my job I was up till 2 o'clock in the morning figuring out Photoshop. I was figuring out how we were going to do billing for our customers. Like I was figuring out all that stuff late at night and then I'd get up and I'd go to my job because I wanted it so bad. And I was so interested in it because I wanted it so bad. Joe: Yeah you are preaching to the choir if I'm the choir right now because yeah look the thing that I see consistently I mean I've done this in my life you and I have been self-employed for about the same amount of time and it's always started with a side hustle and then work like crazy. As you are building that business you're not really making a whole lot of money. You're not taking anything out and oddly enough when you're making the most money is actually when you're not working as hard in my experience. Scott: Right. Joe: You get it up to that level and it starts to just; it's a scalable business. And with that scale, it's starting to generate enough revenue to kick off and then you can quit your day job and then you can live that lifestyle that you want. It's hard though when you're a hard worker and a hustler like yourself and like so many people that are listening. How do you shift from that I'm used to working, I love working, I'm going to work, I'm going to work, I'm going to work to I'm going to sit down and I'm going to have coffee and breakfast with my wife every day by the pool at 8 o'clock? Do you have the discipline to really reschedule your downtime? Scott: You definitely have to schedule it for sure. You have to schedule it and I'm getting better with that like I'm still not perfect Joe. I have to make sure that at 6 o'clock at night that's my cutoff. I'm not going to do anymore posting and I'm not going to do any more answering. It's hard because we can work as long as we want. And when you start to see momentum you want to work more because you want [inaudible 00:24:18.18]. But I've made it very, very clear in my life that I want to have that time. I literally wrote out a vision board and really I created a video years ago that I wanted to see come true. It wasn't like you know the woo-woo stuff but it was like what am I working towards. And one of them was having a coffee and breakfast with my wife. And so here we are many years later and literally, I just got in now. I mean I started my day today at 10 o'clock in the morning. I had a first interview at 10:00. I dropped my daughter off the school at about 7:45. My wife and I got back here. We went out to the pool. I had coffee. I was out there with the dogs. I had my laptop. I was answering a few emails; doing stuff. I'm out there chillin' with my wife hanging out. And that's what I want my life to be. Now could I be doing other things to try to make the Amazing Seller bigger or my e-commerce businesses bigger? Yes, I could but I choose to; like that's kind of like my time. You know what I mean? Joe: Right? Scott: And I do think it's hard. You have to be disciplined. A lot of people say Scott I could never do it. I would never get any work done. Then maybe you do need a job. Joe: I've heard that often. I couldn't work from home I could never get any work and that's just discipline. It's focus and discipline. Scott: 100%. Joe: We've gone from how do you find the time to do this extra side business and side hustle and grow it to how do you schedule your downtime so that you could work. You don't need to as much but scheduling your personal life to make sure that you're there for your family and things of that nature. My kids are older than you. Well, not actually mine are 16 and 18 right. You've got 21? Scott: 21, 14, and 11, yeah, Joe: So I've driven my kids to school from kindergarten right up until last year when my oldest got his license and it's an honor, right? It's a privilege and an honor to be able to do that. And when they look back someday that's what they're going to remember. They're not going to remember that Dad was making more money or something like that. So from finding time to scheduling time; your book specifically talks about all of that in your life and creating the mindset of action and everything you've done in your life. But can you address like a little bit of the how to's in terms of building that future proof business and the steps that you go through with the folks that are listening. Scott: Yeah. To me, it's very, very simple and even if you're looking at this because I know people listening here are probably looking to possibly buy a business or sell a business. Here's the deal. Like whenever you're looking at an opportunity you want to first see if there's a market already there. Like a lot of people say I want to invent a market. That's risky because we don't know; I mean if you ever listen to Shark Tank they always say has the market validated the product? No I don't have any sales it's in pre, or we're kind of building this thing out, it's in pre-production, or we're in like the pre-stage and they're like come back to us when you have sales that the market actually voted and said we actually want and need this. So the market is critical. You have to have a market. Now I'd like it to also be a submarket. So we could talk about like and I always talk about the bass fishing. So if we went like fishing we would niche it down into bass fishing. If we wanted to go one level deeper we could go kayak bass fishing. And then we can really own that category and then we can also build out of that category to serve a wider part of the market. But I always like to look at the market first. Then from there, I want to see what's the potential in the market? And that could be going to Amazon and seeing how the products are selling using a tool like Jungle Scout or whatever tool you want. We have these tools that let us know the market's buying these products. Now we can either sell those products ourselves as our own brand or we can affiliate market those products. We can do all kinds of things. So I want to validate that there are actually sales being made there. Joe: Let me just stop you for a second because some of the language you're using I don't know if everybody knows it. Talk about the affiliate marketing aspect of it because it's a brilliant path that you educate people on taking. Scott: And I'm going to be doing more of it Joe; I got to be honest with you. I was just thinking about this this morning I'm like man there's so many things that I could cover just for getting back from Brand Accelerator Live. People get stuck at the I've got to launch products or I've got to grow mine. If you bought a business; right now if you bought a business and you're thinking I don't want to launch a whole bunch of products because it's something a whole bunch of capital. Why not take the content side of things. Build out traffic and start putting out products that are related to your product as an affiliate bringing some revenue but also get them to vote that the products that you're putting out there from them they want to buy then you can private label them. So I think it's an easier way to get started. If you're just listening to this and you're getting started, the easiest ways to start looking at the market and how much traffic the market has. And then from there can you get in front of the market by getting attention by posting content, building an email list, like getting attention with influencer, whatever. Then you can start to say okay all these products I'm not going to private label all these it's going to cost me a small fortune. I'm going to start putting products out there like a kayak bass fishing boat. Like I might do that but I'm not going to sell it as my own but I might do an affiliate offer for it. So basically on Amazon, we can use their whole catalog. We can become an associate for them. And it's not going to be a ton of money it's 4%, 8%, depending on where your bracket is; the category but it's a nice easy way anyone can get started. It's not going to cost you hardly anything to set up a website and to start posting content. You can write it yourself or have someone else write it and then just start building that over time. Joe: It's a great way to go back to discovering your market as well because as you niche it down people are going to buy certain things and you can say okay well that one's much more popular than the other. Scott: 100%. Joe: The tools like Jungle Scout do that very, very well. But this is an action you've got proof in your own bank account which ones they like more. What about the multiple channels. You and I have talked about this before. We talked about channel diversification. That's something you talk about quite a bit here as well. Scott: Yeah. Well, I think again there's a lot of businesses that are very successful and you sell these businesses just Amazon FBA. We got someone in my inner circle that bought I think 3 businesses from you guys already. Joe: 3. Scott: Big businesses too; crazy amounts. I mean one of them is doing like 6,000 units a day like insane. Joe: Yeah. Scott: And you know what I mean? So it's massive. So the potential there is huge but also I look at like there's a little bit of risk there because if that channel decides to go away or they shut your account down there is a potential. So I want to build a back end support there in some kind. So I want to start building content. I want to start getting my own traffic so that way there I could lead people over to my Shopify store or I could leave people over to my channel if something shall happen. Now if it doesn't; great, keep using that. And I don't; I never tell anyone not to use the channel. Use the channel. Leverage the heck out of it. Drive traffic to Amazon. Build up your rankings. Do all of that stuff. But I do think that having your own email list is a must. I think having your own content, your own home base I call it; your own blog, your web site so this way you control that asset. And to be honest with you Joe like I'm really interested lately and I think I talked to you about it, content sites to me are never going anywhere. We're always going to have content sites. We're always going to have information that people are going to be searching for. So for me what I'm looking at doing is starting something and building it over the course of 12 to 18 months. Now listen to what I just said there over 12 to 18 months not 3 days or 30 days. It's going to take time for the search engines to kind of pick it up and get it indexed and all that stuff. And if I can build that piece of property like I used to do in the construction days; I find a piece of property, I build a house on it, I get some revenue coming in by renting it out, and then I might want to sell it. That's kind of what I'm thinking about. And there's ways you can do that without even having to launch a physical product until you get to the 12, 18th month. Then you can decide what you want to do. But you can start getting revenue coming in from affiliate offers, from AdThrive, Mediavine, any of these other networks just from the content coming in. So for people that say I can't get started because I don't have the capital, I don't have the know-how, I don't have the time, do something like even if it's just building out a content site over the next 12 months do that. Just do that. Joe: Yeah I think again taking action, right? Scott: Yeah. Joe: We just got to say that whole lot here; the take action effect. This book as I've read it and as I've talked to you, you are an interesting mix of inspiration and how-to; and you are the book. That's what emanates. You call it a pivot I call it it is what you are, you're inspiring people to go beyond their current capabilities or to get started and take some action but you're also teaching them how to do it. So it's a nice blend of both and was that the main objective of the book itself? Scott: It was actually a little bit difficult and to be honest with you Joe because I didn't want to just be let me show you how to start a business. I wanted it to be for someone also that has a 7 figure business right now that are 100% dependent on Amazon they read the book and they go oh I can do all of these other things and then probably bring in more revenue, bring in more traffic, get a better multiple when I go to Joe Valley and Quiet Light. So I was looking at two different paths. So as you're reading the book you're going to hear me talk about if you're feeling stuck at your corporate job right now and you feel like you can't get out of it here's what you could do but if you already have a business you should do this too. So it's kind of like you're serving two camps. And it was kind of hard when I was going down that path because I wanted to really talk to both people not just the person starting. Joe: Yeah and I think it's an important message for both. For those that have bought a business that want to diversify beyond Amazon and those that are listening to their spouse and that spouse is saying honey we've got a great gig here you've got health insurance and a retirement plan are you crazy you're going to buy an Amazon business and [inaudible 00:34:05.8]. No, you teach them how to do something on the side as a side hustle and let it grow and take less risk but still have that that additional income down the road or a decent exit as well which boosts the retirement plan. Right, Scott? The book itself again folks it's called The Take Action Effect; Mr. Scott Voelker from The Amazing Seller and beyond. The beyond card is you just do so many other things. How do people find the book; where can they go, what do they need to do to get this in their hands and learn everything you've talked about? Scott: Yeah, just go to TakeActionEffect.com and there's just a simple page there. It'll tell you a little bit more about the book and it'll lead you over to most likely Amazon you get paperback hardcover or the Kindle; pretty affordable to be able to take this information. I don't think people are taking the value in a book is much as they should. It is a way for you to really understand me and my story but also who I've helped and who I want to help. And it allows us to start that relationship because I'm all about relationships. And I want to be able to build a relationship with you way before you would ever hire me or come to one of my workshops or inner circle or whatever. And this book is a way to do it. It's a really, really small investment to be able to really get you thinking differently because the way I look at it Joe is we're installing the Take Action mindset. We're taking this to where you think you know what I don't think I can do this and by the time you get done with even the first; probably quarter of the book you're going to feel like you're going to conquer the world. And that's what it's really all about. Now, Joe, before I do end this I'm going to ask you a question. Joe: Yes? Scott: I want to know one of your take action moments. Joe: Okay. Scott: What's something that you can recall that you're like if that never happened my life would be totally different. Joe: Let's see. Well going back to your vision board I did something very similar once upon a time and it was a Tony Robbins program writing down my goals and envisioning what they are. And I literally; and this is I described my life; I put it all down from the lifestyle that I wanted to live and the type of woman I wanted to marry. Lo, and behold within 6 months I met her. Scott: Wow. Joe: I showed her the list maybe 18 months later and it described her to a T. So that is a Take Action moment for me in terms of writing that list down. Now it changed over the years in terms of my goals. At one point I wanted to have the boat in the harbor in Portland Maine. Well, I live in North Carolina right now that's not really going to happen. And I didn't want it once I had kids. I couldn't really spend much time with them on a boat in that situation. The other one Scott when I'm at Brand Accelerator Live is; I mentioned it before we started recording, is that I have taken action on moving forward with my book as well. We're not going to talk too much about it. I'm going to drop a little hint in here and then I'll be quiet for 12 months. But it's something that I've talked about for many years and I've tried and I've tried and I just haven't gotten it done. And you've inspired me to get it done. And some of your tips in the book itself have allowed me to sort of bullet point what I need to do to take more action and get it done; so two impacts right there and I think is going to make a huge difference for me. But again it's not always; like Rachel says it's not always about me or her. It's about how you can help others as well. And I think you're doing that. You're helping others first and it's benefiting you. And I think it's the best way to go about it. So thank you, Scott, for being my friend, for being my colleague, for being on the Quiet Light podcast. I hope to see you on it again. Scott: Thank you so much, Joe. I appreciate it, man.   Links and Resources: The Take Action Effect Scott's Website Scott's Podcast Scott's YouTube Channel

If you look at a cannabis product by Beboe you would not think of weed, rather of art, design and fashion. This was derived through great brand thinking and design. Clement Kwan has reached great heights of success yet decided to follow his heart and, together with Co-Founder Scott Campbell, launched a luxury brand in a segment that has not seen much sophistication before. Today, the Beboe brand has its own store within Barney's in Beverly Hills and has also carved out its own clientele. Listening to Clement's fascinating story from growing weed in college to make tuition, to becoming an M&A investment banker in Silicon Valley, to holding the president of Net-a-Porter position and learning how he yet turned to where his heart told him to go is inspiring on many levels. But it is also an episode about the sheer power of great design, honest storytelling and how having a deep understanding of a particular audience can make any product succeed, even in a market that did not know it was ready for it. ____Full Transcript: F Geyrhalter: Welcome to Hitting The Mark, episode number 20 of Hitting The Mark to be exact. What an inspirational journey it's been for me, and I hope the same holds true for you. I know for a fact that it has been an inspiration for the latest supporters of the podcast, Nathan Cain from Little Rock, Arkansas and Lav all the way from Serbia. Both are monthly supporters on the Brandster level, which means they will partake in my next monthly group call in September, which I'm greatly looking forward to. So thank you Nathan and Lav for your support. And I'd love for you too to turn into a Patreon by clicking the support button on hittingthemarkpodcast.com, so we can try to keep this show advertising-free and community-supported. For this special 20th episode, I'm thrilled to welcome our first guest from the new green economy. Indeed, we are talking THC and CBD, a space that has been on a fast rise and one that has been a fertile playground for entrepreneurs with a keen sense for branding. On the forefront of this movement is the bespoke brand Beboe and Co-founder Clement Kwan. Beboe is a lifestyle cannabis brand founded in 2016 which the New York Times has called the Hermes of Marijuana. Beboe includes cannabis vaporizers and edible pastilles and caters to discerning consumers. Beboe merged with Green Thumb Industries in late February of this year, 2019. Kwan started his professional career in tech mergers and acquisitions and transitioned into business development and executive roles across the fashion industry working for companies such as Theory, Diesel, and Dolce & Gabbana. In 2012, Clement joined the YOOX group as President of U.S. Operations. Kwan graduated from UC Berkeley. Welcome to the show, Clement. C Kwan: Thank you very much, Fabian. F Geyrhalter: Let me start off by saying what a great pleasure it is to have an entrepreneur like you on the show who clearly understands and strategically utilizes the power of brand in everything he touches. So without going any further, let's start off with the question of all questions, what does branding mean to someone like you? C Kwan: Having worked in the fashion and luxury world for so many years and having built Beboe with Scott Campbell, branding really is emotion, and it's a incitement of emotion, which is really, I think, fascinating to see. Not to go off into a tangent, when I was at YOOX and running the U.S. operations, I decided to chat with and communicate with our 10 largest consumers. These are people who spend at least $250,000 per year online. And I decided to call and/or have tea with them. And what I realized was one lady in particular, who spent exactly $274,000 per year, told me that she doesn't drink. She doesn't do drugs. What she does is shop online as it makes her happy. So from that moment on, I really realized that a brand incites emotion, and any good brand incites emotion either through aesthetics, story, or just some X factor that you can't really describe. So not to get really hippy-dippy or too Venice on us, but there's just juju involved, and we can attest it to emotion. F Geyrhalter: Totally, no, and I love that story. And sorry for jinxing the YOOX name. I read the story behind the name YOOX, so I figured maybe it's just the letters, but it's not Y-O-O-X, it's YOOX. This was a great way of describing branding. It really comes down to emotion. And it's interesting how you say it's something that you really can't touch. It's something that you feel, and it's really hard to talk about how it's being derived. And that is one of the reasons why I love doing this podcast, to kind of talk to different people that have done it successfully and to get a little bit more out of them of how they actually did derive it with their companies. So let's back up a little bit. I read in Forbes that you grew pot to get through college, so that's on the air now, but it's also been in Forbes, so it's okay. That was back in Berkeley when you were a student. And then you pivoted into a fashion career at Diesel and Dolce Gabbana. It seems like Beboe is the direct result of equal parts fashion, design, branding, and cannabis. How did Beboe start? C Kwan: So when I was at Berkeley, I was actually studying corporate finance and decided to grow weed just because I really didn't have any money for tuition. So I met a really nice hippie who decided to teach me how to grow marijuana. I already loved gardening and have a green thumb, and this really presented itself as a wonderful opportunity to not only fulfill a passion but also to make money, which I needed. So I did that for about three and a half years, and then I actually became a tech M&A investment banker in the Silicon Valley from 2000 to 2001, which basically made me stop growing marijuana. But I have always had a passion for it, and I vowed to myself in 2000 when I stopped, that I would get back into it in one way, shape, or form. So after the tech market exploded, I decided to move to New York in late 2001, beginning of 2002, to get into the fashion world because I was raised by a single mother. My single mother took me shopping very, very frequently and asked me really insane questions like, "Does this color look good on me? What looks good on me? Does this fit well," et cetera, et cetera. So I sort of fell in love with fashion just because I was bonding with my mother. So tech market exploded, moved to New York and then first job was at Theory. Then went to Diesel. I helped do a repositioning of the brand for America. Then moved to Milan for seven years and took the license back for D&G or Dolce & Gabbana. And then I became the president of YOOX NET-A-PORTER, the biggest online luxury retailer on a global basis. So long story short, I had children in 2014, and I basically had to look myself in the mirror. Having done what I've done in both banking and fashion, I knew that my passion was marijuana. So after having a child, I was thinking to myself, "If my son asked me, 'What should I do when I grow up'," the wonderful romantic answer is, follow your passion. And I looked at myself in the mirror, and I'm like, "Wow, that's a wonderful thing to say, but if you don't do it, it's very disingenuous to say." So at that point, this is late 2014, I decided to really embrace that passion, not be ashamed of it. And sort of, the universe opened itself up. And I met Scott Campbell through Tom Kartsotis who founded Shinola and Fossil. We bonded over our love for marijuana, and then we decided to embark on a journey called Beboe. We didn't quite know what it was, but we did know that we wanted to build something that was aspirational, something more aesthetically pleasing, something lower dose. And we wanted to have two, I guess, different form factors, which is inhalable and ingestible, and we just incubated the idea. And that's literally the genesis of Beboe. It wasn't to say, "Let's build a luxury brand. Let's target women." We just have a genuine love for the plant and just so happened to have great experience building luxury brands and businesses. Scott Campbell has done a lot of work with Marc Jacobs, Mr. Arnault, Hennessy, all the brands in the LVMH stable. So we both come from that sort of pedigree and wanted to build something that was considerate, beautiful, and really for ourselves. So that's a very long answer to your question. F Geyrhalter: No, that's beautiful. And Scott, who's also a tattoo artist, right, and a tattoo artist of a certain pedigree. I think he tattooed everyone from Jennifer Aniston to Robert Downey, Jr. so very, very high end tattoo artist. But he created the intricate patterns that became such an important part of the brand language of Beboe. But I assume that at some point in that journey, you must've engaged a packaging design and branding firm, right? Can you walk us through that process a little bit? When did you start to actively invest in branding with the startup? C Kwan: We did everything in-house. F Geyrhalter: That's amazing. C Kwan: Scott has always assembled a wonderful internal team of packaging people, and he's also very hands on. So everything that is Beboe was done in-house. F Geyrhalter: Because you started with a team, right? C Kwan: We started with consultants and just friends. So yeah, we didn't have any focus groups. We didn't have any agencies. We didn't have anything really. We did everything internally. F Geyrhalter: And that's why it is authentic. And because of your combined background, again, the parts of design, fashion, brand, right, and cannabis, it feels like it is a brand that can happen intrinsically, not so with a lot of other founders who don't have any of that brand or design kind of background. Where did the brand name come from? C Kwan: Beboe is actually Scott's grandmother's name. So when we were in the course of thinking of a name for our company, we had so many different ideas and suggestions. And ultimately, what we were trying to do with Beboe is inject a little bit of fun, sexiness, and levity into the industry that was male dominated, very juvenile, very traditional, stereotypical stoner. So Scott told me a story about his grandmother, Be Boe, and how his mother, when he was from the ages of seven to 14, she battled cancer. And every week, the grandmother would come, Be Boe, and bring brownies, one, sort of, set for Scott and his sister and the other set for his mother. And during this entire time, he had no idea his mother was battling cancer because Be Boe injected levity into a very shitty situation because she was making marijuana brownies for his mother and normal brownies for Scott and his sister. So that story unto itself was both inspirational because she literally injected levity, fun, everything into really a bad situation. And we were like, "Wow, we should do the same with Beboe." Not that grave, but let's have Beboe inject a bit of sexiness, fun, and levity into the marijuana industry. And that's where Beboe came from. F Geyrhalter: And change the idea of what the industry stands for and who is actually the user of today's cannabis products, right? With that one simple story, which is so emotional, talking about emotions, right, you captured a lot of the spirit of the brand. I really, really like it. I love that you actually talk about this on your website as well. C Kwan: Fabian, sorry to interrupt, going back to the first question about what a brand is, this is what a brand is. So we have a genuine passion for marijuana, growing it, selling it, I mean, pretty much everything, right? There's Be Boe, and that's very emotional story of a grandmother, a person really just making a bad situation wonderful or very, very, tolerable, and then our experience. So I think it's this emotion and this sort of genuine passion that is injected into Beboe, and I think that's what makes a brand a brand. It's our personality. It's us. We couldn't even script it, right? We can't do a focus group. It's truly an extension of us.And he's covered in tattoos. I'm covered in tattoos, but yet Beboe is loved by women and really aspirational, fancy women. And we're like, "Wow, how did that happen?" But it comes back to, I was raised by a single mother. Scott had a very good relationship with his mother and grandmother. So there's a strong female presence and impression on us. F Geyrhalter: It's one layer after another, right? You keep adding these layers to the brand that are all authentic, that are all part of what you're trying to create. And then at some point, all of these layers together, this beautiful cake, right, and everyone can't resist, right? So it's kind of this idea of just adding one little piece at a time. Like you said, you can't script it. Even when I work with entrepreneurs who don't have this intrinsic idea of what the brand needs to be, they really know what they want their product to be, but they don't know what their brand needs to be. And I really, all I do is I just derive it out of them too. It's like, I can't create a story for them. I can just help tell their story in a better way and try to create authenticity that is already inside of them but just kind of get it out of them. It's really therapy. I mean, that's pretty much what it is. You mentioned you were also president of NET-A-PORTER, which you just don't even include in your bio because of everything you accomplished in your life. So congratulations, that's a pretty, pretty big deal, and it feels only natural to talk about another high end fashion powerhouse. So let's talk Barneys for a minute here. I used to be a Barneys fanatic, then I married a smart woman, and now I'm more of a Barneys three times a year kind of guy. But what a fabulous and inspiring institution Barney has always been to me and to most designers around the world. And before we talk about your current Beboe collaboration with Barneys, so totally between you and me and whoever's listening, what do you make of the Barneys bankruptcy? I mean, right after Dean & DeLuca, you mentioned you lived in New York for awhile, what is going on in the world of high end shopping? C Kwan: I don't even think it's just Barneys. It's pretty much the industry as a whole. Going back 10 years, there's a lot of money in the industry and not from a consumer perspective. It's from the institutional investors where private equity pours a lot of money into the industry, an industry that at certain echelons is very non-democratic. So all your luxury brands are now getting private equity money. Before the money came in, every distribution was very selective. It's about scarcity. It's about the consumer experience physically in the store. And post-money, obviously private equity has a horizon, right, three years, three, four years, and then exit. So a lot of pressure has been put in on the industry to get sales, make profits. But this is sort of the price of scarcity and distribution. So if you walk into any store, if you go onto any website, just look at the assortment of products on the sites or on the floor. It's the same thing. So it's because every brand is now selling to every store. Before it was, "Okay, I'm going to sell to Colette, Corso Como. I'm going to sell to a one department store in the U.K., one department store in America," and now, everything is everywhere, and it's accessible 24 hours a day, seven days a week on social media channels. And I think that the day of reckoning is sort of coming where I think there's too much accessibility, and I think there's going to be a pull back. And I think for whatever reason, Barney is going through another transformation or evolution, and then you're going to start seeing many others doing the same thing. So Barneys being a leader, taking the bandaid off and doing what they need to do. And a lot of it is predicated on rent hikes, especially on Madison Avenue. But I think it's a good idea for every retailer to look at what works, what doesn't, and really look for that point of view again, both online and offline. So why are people shopping on one site or store versus the other? Before Zara, Colette had a very distinctive point of view. Sozzani has a very distinctive point of view in Corso Como. And then you have, your Bergdorf Goodman has a very distinctive point of view. But I think there needs to be a refinement again, an evolution in the industry. F Geyrhalter: I love how you were able to spin this into something that can be seen as something pretty negative, but it's fertile ground, right? Something can happen, and something needs to happen. And I got my first first idea of that when I worked with Ron Herman of the Fred Segal empire, and then I saw how unique this was, what he was actually creating. And then obviously, it got sold, and now, it's at the airport, and now, it's everywhere, right? And so I think there's something that is happening currently with that accessibility that I totally agree with you. It ruins the pleasure of finding a certain curated shop and having an experience and finding something that you can find anywhere else. There used to be the time where you brought back something from your travels and it's kind of, it doesn't make sense anymore, right? What you get in a museum store in New York, you get in a museum store in Paris but interesting, interesting observation. And your brand has an actual store named The High End, which is a brilliant name by the way, within the physical Barneys Beverly Hills store. I think it's on the fifth floor. And within High End, the store within a store, you can pick up a $60 box of seven pre-rolled joints amongst many other gorgeous products of your brand. How did that amazing collaboration come about, and what did you learn about your first Barneys customers, who I assume would be very different from your customers before? But that's only assumption. And I also wonder, was that the time that you started to pivot the brand to cater mostly towards women? Or like you said before, it was kind of intrinsically that it was catering more towards women, but was that the time where you actually realized, "Oh, my God. Wealthy women love our aesthetic. They love our product." C Kwan: Ever since we launched, just due to the nature of the branding, the aesthetics, the form factor... I mean, it's a rose gold vaporizer. It's more expensive given our experience and background. I mean, if you look at it, Scott and I have sold dresses, purses, to women for a good 12 to 13 years. I think subconsciously, we only know how to market to women, but we just never articulated it other than building something like a Beboe. So we've always captured the very aspirational female consumer, not by design, but just by nature. I don't know. It just organically happened. The tagline for our brand is probably, my wife or my girlfriend loves Beboe. So yeah, we've always had that aspiration of consumer from 25 to 65, and it was predominantly female, and it just happened by chance. So when Barneys came around, it was just a natural fit, not only because they've known us for so long as Scott and Clement in our different iterations, but Scott also has a very dear relationship with Matthew Mazzucca , the creative director of Barneys. And from there, they wanted to do something in cannabis. We had a great idea on how to do it, and then we just had a great meeting of the minds. And eight months later, The High End was born. But it's not very difficult. It wasn't a stretch by any means because that customer that shopped at Barneys was already buying Beboe and/or had a friend that was using Beboe so very natural relationship. F Geyrhalter: On your website, on the Beboe website, at the very, very end, hidden within the about section, you are also offering brand consulting. What does that entail, and who do you work with, and how did it become part of the part of the Beboe brand? C Kwan: It's not something we really focus on too much, but it's there for humanitarian reasons, humanitarian in the sense- F Geyrhalter: Tell me more. C Kwan: Humanitarian for the industry. So we are extremely open people. What we've created wasn't done in a lab. The IP is us. And what we have realized was when we created Beboe four years ago, we created a product that was counter to what was happening in the market. What we realized was, being a grower myself and dabbling in, let's call it the gray market, there's a lot of people in this industry that have paid their dues, that have been in it for 20 years, that have paved the way, that have gone to prison. They're like the OGs of the industry. So what we did was, and I'll make this short, took this product, and I went to these OGs, and I said, "Guys, listen. In order for our industry to move forward, I respect everything that you do because I've done it. But in order for to really grow and evolve, give this product, which is bourgeois, more expensive, lower potency, and you've never seen anything like this, please help us support it and/or just don't hate on it. Because once this new consumer comes into the industry, they're not going to stop at just Beboe. They're going to try other brands, and then they're going to start asking local politicians and the industry as a whole for more information. And this is what's going to drive change." So having said that, we are where we are because they supported us. Now, there's a whole other generation of people and entrepreneurs trying to do what we've done, and instead of not helping, we want to make sure that the people with the right ideas and the right ethos and obviously, good people, are able to succeed because rising tides floats literally all boats. So let's just have consulting out there so that we can help people flesh through ideas, share with them the pain points that we've gone through, and just, let's help evolve this industry in the right way and be a thought leader and a leader as a whole. And that's what consulting is about. F Geyrhalter: As we come slowly to the end here, one of the questions I always love to ask founders is if you can describe your brand in one word, so I call it the brand DNA. So it's one or two words that are all encompassing of the Beboe brand. For instance, for my brand consultancy FINIEN, our brand DNA is clarity. And for Everlane, it would have to be transparency. What is Beboe's brand DNA? C Kwan: Empowered. It's empowered because I think every person who uses it feels empowered. Every woman that works for us is truly empowered. I mean, our entire team is built up of women, and they are the heart and soul of our brand, and it's not by design. So we cater to a female consumer, and we only have females working for us, which is, it's a beautiful thing. So the thing that we always preach is that, do not let an industry drive you. You drive an industry. Whatever problem you have, you have the authority and the initiative to get it done, fix the problem. You are empowered and financially empowered, everything empowered. And I think we just don't say it. It just happens. So yeah, I think even people who use our product feel empowered when they use it. They're able to discreetly use Beboe, and they feel great because they've empowered themselves to get high. It's mommy's little helper, so they're empowered to be better parents. I don't know. People feel empowered when they have our products in their hands, where they work with us, when they interact with us. Yeah, I think that's what we're really the most proud of. F Geyrhalter: It feels very, very right. And also when you look at the packaging, and you read some of these life lessons and wisdoms that are hidden within the packaging, it is about empowerment. Even though you say you don't mention it, you don't spell it out, it is subliminally spelled out throughout your entire brand. Do you have any other brand advice? And you have already given a lot for founders in any space, as a final takeaway, maybe a lesson you may have learned the hard way, something that can just empower, to use the word, fellow entrepreneurs that are not quite at your stage yet. C Kwan: Ultimately, and I think if I had a startup in the fashion world or something that was little bit more traditional, I would have a big fuck up or something like that to share. But I think we have been fortunate enough to build something in the wild, wild West where we charted our own course. I think the biggest lesson I've learned is that kindness goes a long way. And I hope that every entrepreneur that starts something is kind, not only to the people and the partners and the world as a whole, but kind to themselves, kind that there is no right answer to what you're doing. There are sometimes parameters, but you're going to mess up. You're going to definitely mess up. But it's just being kind to yourself and your mental health, your physical body, because ultimately, that's very, very important. F Geyrhalter: And talking about kindness, when I reached out to you, Clement, I read a Forbes, I think it was a two, three page article about Beboe, and I reached out to you completely blindly. I think it was via LinkedIn or maybe I found your email somewhere on the website. And very often I just pretend the emails go out, and I don't hear back. And the more high profile of a publication I read about someone that I invite on the show, the likelihood is slimmer that they actually get back to me. You got back to me saying, "Hey, Fabian. How are you? Sure," period. I think it was something like that. And I'm like, "That is kindness," right? The idea of the first thing you say is how are you, and there's this spirit that comes from you that is, obviously, shows across your entire brand. So really, really appreciate it. Listeners who live in a state where they can legally obtain cannabis, how can they get a taste of Beboe? C Kwan: You can find it in California, in Colorado, at your favorite dispensaries, and/or go to Barneys, and you can find it there. And then soon with a wonderful partner like GTI, we will be expanding into 10 to 11 other states in the course of the next 12 to 18 months. F Geyrhalter: That's amazing. That's fantastic. And thank you, Clement, for your time today. It was such a pleasure, and it was really fascinating to have you on Hitting The Mark. I really appreciate it. C Kwan: Thank you very much, Fabian. F Geyrhalter: And thanks to everyone for listening, and if you enjoy this sponsor-free podcast, please help keep it that way and become a sustaining member by hitting the support button on hittingthemarkpodcast.com or by going to patreon.com/hittingthemark. Our theme music was written and produced by Happiness Won. I will see you next time when we once again will be hitting the mark.

Scott: One of Kyle's big interests is birds. So what we did was created a birding weekend, and invited a bunch of guests who were connected with the Audubon Society, Cincinnati chapter, Cincinnati Bird Club. People along that line those who share the same interest in birding as Kyle does.Katie: Yeah and this interest in birding is more than just - I like to be outside and in the woods, right? Tell me about that interest that Kyle has and what that looks like.Tammi: When Kyle was born we had two acres in the woods and my husband is the biggest Audubon-nut known to man. And we had every bird in our yard. So Scott had all these CDs from Audubon and from Cornell University of bird calls.Tammi: What we didn't realize is Kyle's gift is audio memory and at age 2, age 3 he was putting those CDs in our old stereo and memorizing, we didn't realize, he was memorizing all those bird calls by track. We're thinking three hundred, four hundred, or five hundred bird calls he has memorized, and he still knows them to age 20. Katie: That is incredible, I didn't realize that it was something that started that young. So when you chose what to do, you were thinking around Kyle's interests. Why were you looking at Kyle's interest in particular?Scott: Well we want to get him integrated, involved in the community - trying to link him up with like-minded people. People with the same interests, shared interests.Katie: So let's unpack how you came up with the idea to eventually have a retreat, what was your initial concept around what you would do?Tammi: My initial thought was a running event, Kyle ran cross country in eight grade and he wants to run again. But Scott and I don't run long distance. So I thought I thought we would set some kind of annual running event. And that was mom, all on my own, in my own head, I get caught in my head.Katie: What do you mean by that? Why was it like being caught?Tammi: When we came to Starfire and started learning different strategies. Taking people to lunch, taking other runners, birders, artists, taking even neighbors, just taking people to lunch and pick their brains, I just call it getting out of my own head.Scott: Yeah the cool thing about some of this was when we first started thinking about this we thought well we can do this, we can do this with no input from anybody else you know we'll come up with the idea and then we can help execute. And then talking to a particular person at Starfire we were told to just talk to people, see what they think and let them kind of run with the program. Don't plan everything for yourself, this is not about you, this is about Kyle integrating into the community. Don't even make the event about him, just make an event of which he is an equal part of and let people volunteer and get the buy in from that.Katie: How important do you think those coffees were and those plannings were over time?Tammi: They were critical.Scott: Critical that's the word I was thinking too.Tammi: It was fun and it was critical to get everyone's feedback and to brainstorm with others. The synergy of getting all our ideas together.Scott: Yeah, simple conversations and getting buy-in, otherwise you're going in cold asking people to do something when they don't even know who you are. It just, you have to.Tammi: And we took a few birders to lunch and they said, well why don't we rent a cabin out in rural Adams County and go birding? And that had never crossed our minds. Scott: And then all the pieces, well what would we need to do for this and this and and it just kind of fell in place in some ways. It still look a lot of planning.Katie: And did it fall in place because the people who helped come up with the idea were helping with some of the logistics and thinking through what to do?Scott: Yeah.Katie: Some shared ownership there, and that's kind of what you were saying that you might get caught in your head, that the original idea didn't have anyone else owning it and so that's the shift where some other people being part of this and feeling just as passionately is what drives the whole ship.Tammi: Absolutely.Katie: And then so everybody who participated in the planning of it how did you work with their schedules to make sure they were involved?Scott: Our event was more of a regional draw, it's not people who live on our street. So our meetings were one on one, they were through email, phone calls things like that. It wasn't like a collective group of people meeting all the time. Turned out there was a bigger interest than we really kind of expected so we had to kind of pull back on it because the place we were getting for the weekend wasn't large enough to hold everybody. So their enthusiasm made things so much easier. The worse thing you can do is throw a party and nobody shows up.Katie: That's really neat. And what was Kyle's role in the project planning itself?Tammi: Excellent question.Scott: I won't say Kyle initiated any of the plans himself, what we would do is we would always ask Kyle if he wanted to do this, get his sign-off essentially.Tammi: Is it ok to have a sleepover with ten people in a cabin? And he would give us a thumbs up or thumbs down. He would come on all the lunches with us or the coffees we would have with people.Katie: Once you came up with this idea together and you landed on your theme, you came up with what you were going to do, you probably set a date, picked a location, were there any other things logistically that you really had to work through that were big parts of this?Tammi: We had to watch the weather, and it rained, which actually turned out to be a good thing because the birds like the rain.Scott: Yeah, it was migration season for the warblers, it was in May, so a nice spring rain kept them calm and singing.Tammi: Picking trails that were accessible and worthy of seeing lots of birds. Picking a trail that was near a lunch picnic shelter, because we provided lunch.Katie: Did anything come up during the process where you felt like, oh no this is never going to work?Tammi: Oh big time.Scott: YesKatie: Can you name a couple of those?Scott: Well, we had a spot all picked out, it was an hour and a half east of the city of Cincinnati, and was it a week or two before? They said, there's — I'll just call it an environmental issue. They had some wild animals on the premises, and we cannot have you come to this. Katie: What type of wild animals?Scott: Feral hogs.Katie: Oh of courseScott: Feral hogs were loose on the property and we need to trap them and we can't have humans at the facility because it'll spook the feral hogs. So we had to scramble, Tammi actually did, scrambled and found a place that we then rented for the weekend.Katie: That must have been just.. How did that feel, gut wrenching?Scott: (Laughter)Tammi: Gut-wrenching except that the rental I think turned out to be a better option for us.Katie: So it was a good thing, hogs feral hogs who would've thought can actually be the best part of your project?Scott: Yeah and then we walked into the place we rented and the first thing we see is the mounted head of a hog on the wall, and I was like, this is perfect, it was meant to be.Katie: So take me to the day of the birding event. It sounds like a lot of the planning happened with you all and you were the connection but maybe having everyone in the room at once was kind of an exciting thing. Where everybody's like, now we're all here. Tell me about the day, how did it feel?Tammi: It was May and it was rainy and we all met at a trail head and that's how we got our day started with a hike.Scott: And we turned the hike procedures and all that over to one of the birders, who was familiar with the trail. So they led the hike and we just participated like everybody else.Tammi: It was exciting, everyone showed up.Scott: Everyone showed up.Tammi: We had 17 on the hike and I think 14 came back to the cabin for dinner. That was exciting to finally get inside and out of the rain. We had a lot of fun stories to tell. And then ten people, that's the limit on the cabin for spending the night, so we had ten conversations to midnight.And what Scott and I noticed too, Kyle being such a (I don't want to say expert) but the audio memory, he can hold his own in that group of experts.Katie: Were they impressed by the level of knowledge that he has?Tammi: Absolutely.Katie: After all this your goal to help Kyle get more integrated into the community, and also as a family to connect more socially with people who share the birding interest, what has happened since? What is a result of this project that you want to share?Scott: During that weekend one of the activities we did was we had a little contest where we would play a bird call and the avid birders had to identify what the bird was. We had fifteen birds and Kyle ended up winning the competition. It was pretty cool in and of itself. Then a few months later there was a bird outing, and the person that was leading the birding walk - we had never met. And when we introduced ourselves to him he said,“Oh Kyle I've heard about you, you're the one who knows all the bird calls.” So we decided to take him to lunch just to make the connection with him. Over lunch he said he would like to do that, he heard about the birding weekend, he actually knew of the place we went and said that was one of his favorite places to go birding ever. And he would like to do that same weekend if we'd be interested in doing it with he and his buddies. So great yeah, we'll do that. And then at lunch he decided I have about an hour, I'm going to go birding, Kyle would you like to join me? So we all went birding and it was kind of interesting because Josh kind of took Kyle. And they went birding and Tammi and I were kind of behind them watching it was pretty cool because it all came out of the birding weekend. It was that connection, he knew about the weekend, he knew about Kyle's skills, he knew of where we went birding, it was just this perfect puzzle that was put together.Katie: And you didn't even have to put that out there?Scott: He did it all. It was his idea, and it's his guest list, so we're connecting Kyle to a whole other group of people he didn't know before.Katie: That's incredible, thank you guys anything else you want to say?Tammi: Well, I was going to say, I felt as the non-birder, you know the big let down after the big weekend… Birders all go away for the summer and I thought, oh my gosh we did all of this and there's no connection. And then a month later they go on that hike and then — there's Josh.Katie: Pretty awesome.Tammi: It was awesome.

Rob and Kevin discuss ghosting the for a bit and then jump right into the meat of the episode.  The main topic is tips and tricks to building a following on Twitter.  Some best practices are discussed as well as an effective way to gain followers quickly. Each week, Rob answers questions from Kevin Long and offers advice on how to have a successful podcast.  Good for newbies and seasoned podcasters alike!   Learn more, subscribe, or contact us at www.southgatemediagroup.com.  You can write to Rob at southgatemediagroup@gmail.com and let us know what you think.  Be sure to rate us and review the episode.  It really helps other people find us.  Thanks!      Kevin's Twitter @TheSwamppit Facebook The Kevin Long Show Rob Southgate’s Twitter @RSouthgate Email  southgatesmallbusiness@gmail.com Transcipton 0:04 - 05:00 Welcome back to an all new episode of critters lamb back effort will heinous. And I while Kevin. I am sorry. Verdict. Saw get back to you with this. I if you listen to you menial prime you heard what I was wrestling with here, and very very common for a lot of podcasters that swin they ghost the audience for good. And they never come back said, no, I'm coming back. I gotta figure out where the problem is. The problem was me when I listened craters lab I hear more by personality come through when I listen to prime. I wasn't so thanks for bearing with me while I figured all that out. But back on track is all good. And I understand what it's like to do a million things. Plus try to get a masters degree, which is now complete. So all right. Let's talk about a couple of things first of all since it's been a while. I kinda don't remember all the things we did we talked about content calendar and all that stuff. I think today. I want to focus on specifically on Twitter. But I wanna touch on a couple of things we've talked about before do it. First of all you've been doing a good job, sending me artwork. For those that don't remember, the artwork should be fourteen hundred fourteen hundred pixels, and it should be something. So there is artwork for the episode. So even if it just as a black screen, and it says Kevin long show episode three that's better than having nothing. But you can have been doing a good job of sending of our work with the episode, which is great. So the other thing we talked about was the content calendar. And I wanna see have you done anything with that yet. I haven't one of my goals this week has been to go look at it and be better at doing it because you've talked about when show drops put five like throughout the day make five posts about it. And I did five the first time we did it. And after that the most I get is three. So I really wanna focus on the calendar this week and making sure I making all the posts. I can. Yeah. Yeah. Which Twitter account? Are you doing this from because you have multiple you have the swamp? It you have Kevin long show one. You have come a long show with each other numbers, which one are you going to use for this project, the one I am using is the Kevin long S H one. Okay. Great. So what I look at that. You need a lot of help here. Yeah. We're putting it. First of all, we're gonna have to get into the content creation part of it for that content. Calendar I want you to really go barebones don't make a thirty day counter. You're already going to have problems with that. And that's how everybody is. Okay. You gotta start. We gotta take some little bites. Okay. But we definitely want to get the message out there. I know you did all your hashtags. You've got all that kind of under control. When you tweet out. Let's go with three tweets on the day. The show drops one tweet like three days later. Okay. And for the rest of it for now. Share other tweets. If you can get in the stuff in there any other stuff great. But right now, just go in everyday share two or three tweets from other people other shows that you think your audience would care about because the idea is we're trying to share content that your audience cares about. Okay. They want us to be the person. They're getting that information from even if they get it from another one too, and they see that you're posting it it builds that audience for you. Okay. Okay. So get those studies three posts today that your show drops one three days later that. Okay. Good. And the rest of the time get at least two shared tweets day, if you can do more if you can create other content or whatever great. But you gotta get in the habit of go on Twitter. I shared a couple of different things. I'm out. All right. You're what you're trying to build some of those habits into what you do. Now. That's that's that part of it. The other side, we can get into we'll get into content creation and other time, and that's going to apply not just Twitter Instagram, Facebook and everything else we're talking specifically Twitter right now and with what you have going. So first of all, let's say, you're content was fine. 05:01 - 10:07 Okay. You only have right now at this moment, forty eight followers and you're only following eighty four. Did I talk to you about the trick on how to get followers? I don't think we have. Let's talk about that. I'm going to share a secret here that might feel like you're gaming the system, you're not this is how you get those initial followers. So you can create content and get people following you that start getting active with you. You can't we're not gonna have ocean immediately. You're trying to get listeners, but we're also trying to build audience through this which you really need to do. There's a thing called creation. And there's a thing called prospecting right now, you need to do a little creation needed to get familiar with that. But you need to prospect. Okay. The way we're gonna prospect or my my suggestion is Kevin. Can you name? Two shows that are similar to yours that would have same similar audience. I can name that goes hammer and roll for. I'm not. Yeah. Rover initiative. They're both part of the wild game productions group, okay? So. Are there any shows in our network that you have been on where you're like? Yeah. I also people kind of know me on this show. About three years ago. I did a show with gaming Scott. Great. So those are your three those are three you're going to focus on okay? Every day whenever you have free time. Go to gaming, Scott, go to faculty hammer at what you're gonna do is you're going to go to their followers. Not who they follow, but their followers. Okay, you click on followers and you'll get a whole list. It's easier from your phone than it is from the website. 'cause on the website. It'll say it'll show who follows them, but it takes longer to scroll through if you do it on your out. It's really fast. So right out on the phone because that's how that's what I do. I probably need to do it more. But I go in the other day and have to start again at the top and work my way down to the people that I'm not following yet. And then I just get why do I wanna do this? Okay. Because right now, you have eighty four that you're following. You need between now and next week. You should have easily five hundred or following if not a hell of a lot more. Okay. Here's the deal. You can do up to four hundred follows a day the prize blocks you out after like a hundred and you've got to wait like an hour. And then you can do another hundred. So it is a little tricky. But if you can if you can follow between now and next Monday five hundred people by doing that. And you follow your competitors followers gaming, Scott, the audience might be familiar with you follow follow all of them. Okay. As big as you, can I don't get bored. If I keep following. Let's say I go to league, which is a great show. A Lil on some of my shows he's on that show. So I'm like, hey that audience knows me I follow their people, and I get a little bored doing that. So I might go to another show that I'm like, you know, what this one is a show that similar we share a similar demographic audience we're targeting I'll follow all their people. So I don't do the same one every day as what I'm getting at. So those are your three focus on those three don't spread out from those until you followed everybody in there's and I'll tell you what gaming was Scott, followed. This advice Scott had like one hundred twenty dollars or something. We started it. You know, has what thirty six thousand something like that. Yeah. I was looking at the other day. It was going to be one of my questions, but it is a hundred percent from doing this. Okay. This is what changed it you could write to Scott. He will tell you. This is what changed it? Okay. You gotta be diligent with it. You gotta keep at it. Now. People say, yeah. But I'm picking up all these people that aren't really fans, I don't care. That's where when you create content that adds value to what they're doing. They start becoming fans. Posting your show alone is not going to do it. They have to be interested in you to say interested enough that I wanna click on your show. But you gotta get net habit of posting your shows because there are people interested. Right, right. That's when if you're sharing other people's stuff, and then you start realizing, hey, I should create content. That is me that is about the subject by my audiences interested in that's where you're going to build real value and build real audience. 10:08 - 15:05 Okay. Now, I'm gonna give a tip here. That goes to another step, but you're not going to do this. Okay. Can the reason you're not gonna do this? I don't want you weeding out until you're at like five thousand people that your following. Okay. K. Once you hit five thousand, and that's actually lower than I like to tell people, but I'm gonna tell you do five thousand once you're at five thousand that your following. You wanna get an app, I just got one that actually Lilith hellfire who has been on this show bunch of times, she recommended it's called tweet sponge that we used to really good one. I can't even remember what it's called because they changed. How it worked? It turned to crap. So I've been searching for a good one to clean out the followers that don't follow back tweets. Bunch. Does a great job. It's only a dollar ninety nine app. Used to use crowd fire yet crossfire was the one. That was good. It's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible now. And so I saw tweet sponge, it's a dollar ninety nine. I just got it today off of recommendation, I cleaned out thousand people on my personal one. That were not following me back. I was like. Okay, gone. I don't care who they are even the ones that are in my network. They're gone. I can always refile them. Right. So good. They're gone. What I'm trying to do. And this is this is where the pro tip really comes in. But we're not going to do that don't do that. Until you've built a lot more because at forty eight followers. You're nowhere close to saying. Hey, I don't I don't need you those or that you're following might convert into being followers. I can see people out here right now that should be following you because I know who they are. And they don't they're not seeing anything that's making them. Click follow. Right. So we gotta we gotta build but start by trying to harvest trying to or. Prospect by you know, hey, I'm throwing my my plate in the water seen if there's any gold in there anything that I work with concert separating some of the mud dirt and rocks out of there. And hey, there's bits of gold left. Okay. Okay. But we don't do that part until after this where we're just getting handfuls of mud from the bottom of that river. Okay. Tweet sponge, really excellent app. Having a great time using it. I've only been using it today. And I made it's already making a difference. The reason you wanna do that is there is a magic number for Twitter. This is something you cannot find out there. This is something that we kept talking about around here. And I'll tell you who figured it out. It was Scott Triano because he is a ten nations, dude. And I said I said this is what I think is happening. His numbers were growing. He was following this then he was following following following following. And he was like how do I make this better? I said, well, there's a magic number it's somewhere around this. But I can't find it in any books. I've talked to experts that are like, I know there's a magic number, and I can't figure it out. He figured out a number. And I set one of our counts to that number. And I'll tell you what my number started going up quickly, the reason that that happens, you think well, what does that matter if if there's number it's the ratio of following to followers, and if you get that number right, and you can maintain it there and just keep checking and changing it. So that it stays right there. Have you ever noticed you're on Twitter, and it'll have recommendations, and you see the same few people all the time. Some of them are people like, you know, different Southgate media group shows because you follow out the media group shows, and some of them are people that you're like why does this dude keep showing up in all my feats? The reason has shows up in your feeds. Not because it's reading an algorithm saying you might be interested in him. It's because yes, it he shares some things that you might be interested in, but he's sitting at that golden ratio by sitting at that golden ratio win an opportunity awry. Rises for somebody to to see you it pops you into their their sphere yet. Yeah. Do so that's all Vance stuff. We're not doing any of that right now. And those you listening out there. That's Vance stuff. Just oh it's coming and we'll work on that. Once we get there. But at eighty four following get it up to five hundred the more you can get the better. Don't don't go. I got five hundred I'm done go higher, but get at least five rent your following. You may only have one hundred followers at the end of that. That's okay. That's totally. Okay. We may get to ten thousand followers, and you have a thousand followers. That's okay, too. Because then we're going to start the call it. We're gonna start weeding these people out, and the crazy thing is every time, I call mine the numbers, go up. 15:07 - 20:01 And here's another secret to success in content creation. If you're if you're a content marketer, your creator, you're making podcast or blog or log or anything like that. If you we hear these things like give mediocre gets bought by Spotify for eight billion dollars. We're all like why did that happen to me? Well, a big reason is they built value into their social media. Their social media is really good, and they have a ton of followers. You wanna get as many followers as many people that you can say, look, I've got I've got one hundred thousand followers that follow me. Even though I'm not famous as the Kevin long show, but I have one hundred thousand followers that are legit followers. Guess what? That's how somebody pays attention and says, hey, he's got a hundred thousand followers. We should probably do something. Dave Matthews band had sold. What was at twenty million albums or something before they got signed? That's why they got signed because he went and sold these individually and could prove sold twenty thousand albums and record company went with that was without advertising about backing without anything your making an impact, and he got they got signed, and they became the bath bathrooms band. Same same principles apply to this dall- makes sense. Kevin. Yeah. All right. Start slow get that content under control real basic stuff and start following your competitors. That share similar demographic just start following the hell out of them. All right. You said you had questions. Let's hear oh, my questions are totally different than the way. We went today. That's okay. So I've been looking at Twitter numbers. And and like, I guess we kinda talked about content today. Scott has gaming with Scott has huge numbers. But I can't remember the last time he posted something right or like, I don't ever see anything for merge, domain, and their numbers aren't as big as Scott's. But again, like I never say anything from them, right? Right. Okay. So now gimme miscount innards domain are both under the Southgate media group umbrella. So I can throw them under the bus a little bit here. If you look through first of all they're doing huge disservice by not posting guess what? I did the same thing. Just like I talked about ghosting on this show. They have goes to their audience on Twitter what they need is a social media strategy that they set up at the beginning of the month. Even if it's three times a week. It would make a huge difference. The other thing is and I've talked to them about this at for some reason, we're not connecting on it. But they need to share content that matters to their audience if you scroll through I'm scrolling through gaming scout right now. And most of what he has ninety nine percent is promotion for the shows his put on. So I'm looking right here in December gaming Scott Star Trek zero one episode twenty two intervention that I go on the next post is follow me into the dark. These are all episodes and LP is the next one as as the next one. That's then it's this crowd fire thing, which is is an automated thing that crowd fire puts in so I start looking through this. And I'm like, these are all just simply promoting something. They have you're not adding value to your customer. You're just like throwing ads out there. Well, yes, he's got right now twenty six thousand followers. Okay. If he took those followers said, hey, these are people that are interested me, which they are. And he started putting he started sharing game news because gaming podcast. He started sharing of once a week of funny memes about gaming or quote from the actual show where they all cracked up because so and so said this they made their own mean for it or they did a poll like these people battled this week this one versus this one which one wins ah tell you what his numbers would go up exponentially. Because the audiences engaged in fines or reason to come there. When you start talking social media, there's multiple platforms. You can go Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat. Let's stick with those right now, you don't have to be out all of them. You wanna be on the one that your is on first and foremost for this Scott has a huge audience. Right. Yeah. He's got an audience there. So okay there there. Let's let's keep pushing that actually the best. 20:01 - 25:02 He has ever said all that. Two posts ago back in April. He posted one of his kids that said, it's bring your kids to work day. It's the best. It's the only thing that's not a promotion at. It's the best because you look at it. You're like, oh, those Scots kids. That's awesome. Something behind the scenes something backstage. It's something different. That's what you want. And if he was able to build that kind of value add start getting in conversation with people because then when you have that people might like it. They might make a comment that post has eight hearts and account. Look at all other ones, not the same amount for every eight likes and a comet is that a lot. No is a lot compared to the others. Yes. Keep it rolling. I I'm definitely going to be talking to Scott ended earns domain about content creation because they have audience. Let's do some basic content creation to provide value to your customer. That's the key provide value at it's gotta be like, you're just giving it away something that they're interested in your audience. Kevin is interested in table top gaming. So every week when geeks gogo posted a review of game off drive through our PG share it. Okay. When you play new game, right? Short review of it only share it through your Twitter account, or or write your blog and share the link to the blog with something extra. You know? Hey, I really dug this game. You got to read my review, I got lost in the whatever. So that people feel like, oh, there's a reason I follow him on Twitter because he's giving me a little something more. Okay. But we're gonna start small we're gonna get your shows posted. You're going to share other people's stuff. Geeks goes a great one to share from. I'll go check it out as soon as we're doing this, man. And you should you should share things from breath through our they're doing they advertise when they've got like their daily discount put that out every day and make sure you use hashtags and make sure you you do all that. And they're going to take notice and they might start sharing your stuff. Okay. Make sense. You does what's another question resent it for today? Yeah. I think that'll be today because I don't wanna go too far from where we got our lying right right at I guess. I'm sorry. I got one more. Go ahead. How does? How do the Twitter numbers compute to downloads? Our example in April, I had nine hundred nine downloads, right at least that's the number. Matt gave me, but I've only been posting to Twitter, you know, three times a week when show comes out. Yeah. They don't. Okay. They don't could they. Yes. Think of it as you're putting advertisement out there at advertisement usually get a one to three percent return on. So if if you've got thirty thousand followers, you should pick up between three hundred and while neck as three thousand listens. Which is pretty significant. Right. Yeah. Well, three thousand three thousand would be ten percent so three hundred but that's three hundred extra listens. Because people saw your stuff on there. And they clicked on it. And it Bill audience out of that post now that there's no way those are hard numbers. Okay. I'm just making up. But but the the one to three percent is a real thing in advertising. So if you think of it as advertising is really just engagement. It's engagement with your audience. That's what you're trying to do is give them engagement. So they feel value. So they wanna talk to you. And that's when they wanna listen to your show. So Scott's numbers do not translate to his downloads. They should. It's because he's not providing value. So all they're seeing this promotion every time if they felt like they were in conversation with their his download numbers would be even higher. Okay. If you're looking for it to happen in a month. That's not gonna happen. Right. All right. K and anyone that's listening. Listen gaming, Scott. If you like gaming shows, it's a fantastic show. I love when he has interviews. They're phenomenal. The phenomenal. Time to grow that audience. Chime for me to do my job and be an executive producer get him growing that audience because I'm telling you, it's it's a excellent excellent show. 25:02 - 27:45 That deserves to be heard it deserves that audience. It has a lot more. So. Yeah. Gaming with Scott, excellent show, at of course, the Kevin long show is an excellent show our Kevin give your social media again, you can find us on Twitter at the Kevin long S H one. You can find us on Facebook by searching, the Kevin long show or you can Email us at the Kevin long show at gmaiLcom rate. And if you are going to post something you wanna post something to either of us one, let's let's do a hashtag for. What do we call this creators lab do hashtag? Okay. If you want to send something to us regarding this particular thing use the hashtag creators lab, I think that'd be pretty cool. We might get a few post here and there and trust me if you post that I've read it, and I'm gonna respond. The other thing is use the hashtag support. Indie podcasts always used that. Because that's what we're all about. And if you have questions for me right to me at Southgate, small business G, mail dot com. You can also find me on Twitter at our Southgate or on Instagram at rob Southgate, or you can find a centre website Southgate media group dot com where we've got over a hundred shows, and blogs, and podcasts blogs and all sorts of stuff going on. And if you have questions don't hesitate to write in for that matter, we might end up putting on a show if you've got a good one I recorded another group that. Wanted me to review their show, and I'll bring that out here in the next couple of weeks I recorded with them in talked all about their show. So stay tuned for that this week. We have our next guest. I don't know. Did you listen to the Scott Philbrick one? I did which I think I thought it was great. That's where my that's where my questions were coming from. That's yeah. Good good. It's one of my favorites this week. I believe I'm going to do the Queen Cuomo episode which Queen is she's at the time recorded into podcasters, she's kind of killing it right now. But what I recorded this back in December. She was still kind of new and get her feet wet. It's really interesting to get the perspective of somebody like her versus somebody like Scott Philbrick and hearing how they're kind of saying the same things, even though, you know, it's the common knowledge we all have, but one is putting into action the different way than the other. So stay tuned for that win Cuomo is the one I'm going to Thursday. Decision was just made until next time. Kevin I will talk to you next week until time keep creating. Website  www.southgatemediagroup.com/newmedialab Patreon  www.patreon.com/newmedialab Pinterest www.pinterest.com/SMGPods/new-media-lab/ Twitter feeds mentioned on the show... @GamingWScott and @NerdsDomain Be sure to follow both accounts and check out their excellent shows. Please use the hashtags #CreatorsLab and #SupportIndiePodcasts   SHOW HOSTS: Rob Southgate SHOW EDITOR: Rob Southgate PRODUCER: Rob Southgate   #NewMedia #Podcasting #Business #YouTube #Blogging #Vlogging     Creators Lab: Building a Twitter Following 00:00:04 - 00:05:00 Welcome back to an all new episode of critters lamb back effort will heinous. And I while Kevin. I am sorry. Verdict. Saw get back to you with this. I if you listen to you menial prime you heard what I was wrestling with here, and very very common for a lot of podcasters that swin they ghost the audience for good. And they never come back said, no, I'm coming back. I gotta figure out where the problem is. The problem was me when I listened craters lab I hear more by personality come through when I listen to prime. I wasn't so thanks for bearing with me while I figured all that out. But back on track is all good. And I understand what it's like to do a million things. Plus try to get a masters degree, which is now complete. So all right. Let's talk about a couple of things first of all since it's been a while. I kinda don't remember all the things we did we talked about content calendar and all that stuff. I think today. I want to focus on specifically on Twitter. But I wanna touch on a couple of things we've talked about before do it. First of all you've been doing a good job, sending me artwork. For those that don't remember, the artwork should be fourteen hundred fourteen hundred pixels, and it should be something. So there is artwork for the episode. So even if it just as a black screen, and it says Kevin long show episode three that's better than having nothing. But you can have been doing a good job of sending of our work with the episode, which is great. So the other thing we talked about was the content calendar. And I wanna see have you done anything with that yet. I haven't one of my goals this week has been to go look at it and be better at doing it because you've talked about when show drops put five like throughout the day make five posts about it. And I did five the first time we did it. And after that the most I get is three. So I really wanna focus on the calendar this week and making sure I making all the posts. I can. Yeah. Yeah. Which Twitter account? Are you doing this from because you have multiple you have the swamp? It you have Kevin long show one. You have come a long show with each other numbers, which one are you going to use for this project, the one I am using is the Kevin long S H one. Okay. Great. So what I look at that. You need a lot of help here. Yeah. We're putting it. First of all, we're gonna have to get into the content creation part of it for that content. Calendar I want you to really go barebones don't make a thirty day counter. You're already going to have problems with that. And that's how everybody is. Okay. You gotta start. We gotta take some little bites. Okay. But we definitely want to get the message out there. I know you did all your hashtags. You've got all that kind of under control. When you tweet out. Let's go with three tweets on the day. The show drops one tweet like three days later. Okay. And for the rest of it for now. Share other tweets. If you can get in the stuff in there any other stuff great. But right now, just go in everyday share two or three tweets from other people other shows that you think your audience would care about because the idea is we're trying to share content that your audience cares about. Okay. They want us to be the person. They're getting that information from even if they get it from another one too, and they see that you're posting it it builds that audience for you. Okay. Okay. So get those studies three posts today that your show drops one three days later that. Okay. Good. And the rest of the time get at least two shared tweets day, if you can do more if you can create other content or whatever great. But you gotta get in the habit of go on Twitter. I shared a couple of different things. I'm out. All right. You're what you're trying to build some of those habits into what you do. Now. That's that's that part of it. The other side, we can get into we'll get into content creation and other time, and that's going to apply not just Twitter Instagram, Facebook and everything else we're talking specifically Twitter right now and with what you have going. So first of all, let's say, you're content was fine. 00:05:01 - 00:10:07 Okay. You only have right now at this moment, forty eight followers and you're only following eighty four. Did I talk to you about the trick on how to get followers? I don't think we have. Let's talk about that. I'm going to share a secret here that might feel like you're gaming the system, you're not this is how you get those initial followers. So you can create content and get people following you that start getting active with you. You can't we're not gonna have ocean immediately. You're trying to get listeners, but we're also trying to build audience through this which you really need to do. There's a thing called creation. And there's a thing called prospecting right now, you need to do a little creation needed to get familiar with that. But you need to prospect. Okay. The way we're gonna prospect or my my suggestion is Kevin. Can you name? Two shows that are similar to yours that would have same similar audience. I can name that goes hammer and roll for. I'm not. Yeah. Rover initiative. They're both part of the wild game productions group, okay? So. Are there any shows in our network that you have been on where you're like? Yeah. I also people kind of know me on this show. About three years ago. I did a show with gaming Scott. Great. So those are your three those are three you're going to focus on okay? Every day whenever you have free time. Go to gaming, Scott, go to faculty hammer at what you're gonna do is you're going to go to their followers. Not who they follow, but their followers. Okay, you click on followers and you'll get a whole list. It's easier from your phone than it is from the website. 'cause on the website. It'll say it'll show who follows them, but it takes longer to scroll through if you do it on your out. It's really fast. So right out on the phone because that's how that's what I do. I probably need to do it more. But I go in the other day and have to start again at the top and work my way down to the people that I'm not following yet. And then I just get why do I wanna do this? Okay. Because right now, you have eighty four that you're following. You need between now and next week. You should have easily five hundred or following if not a hell of a lot more. Okay. Here's the deal. You can do up to four hundred follows a day the prize blocks you out after like a hundred and you've got to wait like an hour. And then you can do another hundred. So it is a little tricky. But if you can if you can follow between now and next Monday five hundred people by doing that. And you follow your competitors followers gaming, Scott, the audience might be familiar with you follow follow all of them. Okay. As big as you, can I don't get bored. If I keep following. Let's say I go to league, which is a great show. A Lil on some of my shows he's on that show. So I'm like, hey that audience knows me I follow their people, and I get a little bored doing that. So I might go to another show that I'm like, you know, what this one is a show that similar we share a similar demographic audience we're targeting I'll follow all their people. So I don't do the same one every day as what I'm getting at. So those are your three focus on those three don't spread out from those until you followed everybody in there's and I'll tell you what gaming was Scott, followed. This advice Scott had like one hundred twenty dollars or something. We started it. You know, has what thirty six thousand something like that. Yeah. I was looking at the other day. It was going to be one of my questions, but it is a hundred percent from doing this. Okay. This is what changed it you could write to Scott. He will tell you. This is what changed it? Okay. You gotta be diligent with it. You gotta keep at it. Now. People say, yeah. But I'm picking up all these people that aren't really fans, I don't care. That's where when you create content that adds value to what they're doing. They start becoming fans. Posting your show alone is not going to do it. They have to be interested in you to say interested enough that I wanna click on your show. But you gotta get net habit of posting your shows because there are people interested. Right, right. That's when if you're sharing other people's stuff, and then you start realizing, hey, I should create content. That is me that is about the subject by my audiences interested in that's where you're going to build real value and build real audience. 00:10:08 - 00:15:05 Okay. Now, I'm gonna give a tip here. That goes to another step, but you're not going to do this. Okay. Can the reason you're not gonna do this? I don't want you weeding out until you're at like five thousand people that your following. Okay. K. Once you hit five thousand, and that's actually lower than I like to tell people, but I'm gonna tell you do five thousand once you're at five thousand that your following. You wanna get an app, I just got one that actually Lilith hellfire who has been on this show bunch of times, she recommended it's called tweet sponge that we used to really good one. I can't even remember what it's called because they changed. How it worked? It turned to crap. So I've been searching for a good one to clean out the followers that don't follow back tweets. Bunch. Does a great job. It's only a dollar ninety nine app. Used to use crowd fire yet crossfire was the one. That was good. It's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible now. And so I saw tweet sponge, it's a dollar ninety nine. I just got it today off of recommendation, I cleaned out thousand people on my personal one. That were not following me back. I was like. Okay, gone. I don't care who they are even the ones that are in my network. They're gone. I can always refile them. Right. So good. They're gone. What I'm trying to do. And this is this is where the pro tip really comes in. But we're not going to do that don't do that. Until you've built a lot more because at forty eight followers. You're nowhere close to saying. Hey, I don't I don't need you those or that you're following might convert into being followers. I can see people out here right now that should be following you because I know who they are. And they don't they're not seeing anything that's making them. Click follow. Right. So we gotta we gotta build but start by trying to harvest trying to or. Prospect by you know, hey, I'm throwing my my plate in the water seen if there's any gold in there anything that I work with concert separating some of the mud dirt and rocks out of there. And hey, there's bits of gold left. Okay. Okay. But we don't do that part until after this where we're just getting handfuls of mud from the bottom of that river. Okay. Tweet sponge, really excellent app. Having a great time using it. I've only been using it today. And I made it's already making a difference. The reason you wanna do that is there is a magic number for Twitter. This is something you cannot find out there. This is something that we kept talking about around here. And I'll tell you who figured it out. It was Scott Triano because he is a ten nations, dude. And I said I said this is what I think is happening. His numbers were growing. He was following this then he was following following following following. And he was like how do I make this better? I said, well, there's a magic number it's somewhere around this. But I can't find it in any books. I've talked to experts that are like, I know there's a magic number, and I can't figure it out. He figured out a number. And I set one of our counts to that number. And I'll tell you what my number started going up quickly, the reason that that happens, you think well, what does that matter if if there's number it's the ratio of following to followers, and if you get that number right, and you can maintain it there and just keep checking and changing it. So that it stays right there. Have you ever noticed you're on Twitter, and it'll have recommendations, and you see the same few people all the time. Some of them are people like, you know, different Southgate media group shows because you follow out the media group shows, and some of them are people that you're like why does this dude keep showing up in all my feats? The reason has shows up in your feeds. Not because it's reading an algorithm saying you might be interested in him. It's because yes, it he shares some things that you might be interested in, but he's sitting at that golden ratio by sitting at that golden ratio win an opportunity awry. Rises for somebody to to see you it pops you into their their sphere yet. Yeah. Do so that's all Vance stuff. We're not doing any of that right now. And those you listening out there. That's Vance stuff. Just oh it's coming and we'll work on that. Once we get there. But at eighty four following get it up to five hundred the more you can get the better. Don't don't go. I got five hundred I'm done go higher, but get at least five rent your following. You may only have one hundred followers at the end of that. That's okay. That's totally. Okay. We may get to ten thousand followers, and you have a thousand followers. That's okay, too. Because then we're going to start the call it. We're gonna start weeding these people out, and the crazy thing is every time, I call mine the numbers, go up. 00:15:07 - 00:20:01 And here's another secret to success in content creation. If you're if you're a content marketer, your creator, you're making podcast or blog or log or anything like that. If you we hear these things like give mediocre gets bought by Spotify for eight billion dollars. We're all like why did that happen to me? Well, a big reason is they built value into their social media. Their social media is really good, and they have a ton of followers. You wanna get as many followers as many people that you can say, look, I've got I've got one hundred thousand followers that follow me. Even though I'm not famous as the Kevin long show, but I have one hundred thousand followers that are legit followers. Guess what? That's how somebody pays attention and says, hey, he's got a hundred thousand followers. We should probably do something. Dave Matthews band had sold. What was at twenty million albums or something before they got signed? That's why they got signed because he went and sold these individually and could prove sold twenty thousand albums and record company went with that was without advertising about backing without anything your making an impact, and he got they got signed, and they became the bath bathrooms band. Same same principles apply to this dall- makes sense. Kevin. Yeah. All right. Start slow get that content under control real basic stuff and start following your competitors. That share similar demographic just start following the hell out of them. All right. You said you had questions. Let's hear oh, my questions are totally different than the way. We went today. That's okay. So I've been looking at Twitter numbers. And and like, I guess we kinda talked about content today. Scott has gaming with Scott has huge numbers. But I can't remember the last time he posted something right or like, I don't ever see anything for merge, domain, and their numbers aren't as big as Scott's. But again, like I never say anything from them, right? Right. Okay. So now gimme miscount innards domain are both under the Southgate media group umbrella. So I can throw them under the bus a little bit here. If you look through first of all they're doing huge disservice by not posting guess what? I did the same thing. Just like I talked about ghosting on this show. They have goes to their audience on Twitter what they need is a social media strategy that they set up at the beginning of the month. Even if it's three times a week. It would make a huge difference. The other thing is and I've talked to them about this at for some reason, we're not connecting on it. But they need to share content that matters to their audience if you scroll through I'm scrolling through gaming scout right now. And most of what he has ninety nine percent is promotion for the shows his put on. So I'm looking right here in December gaming Scott Star Trek zero one episode twenty two intervention that I go on the next post is follow me into the dark. These are all episodes and LP is the next one as as the next one. That's then it's this crowd fire thing, which is is an automated thing that crowd fire puts in so I start looking through this. And I'm like, these are all just simply promoting something. They have you're not adding value to your customer. You're just like throwing ads out there. Well, yes, he's got right now twenty six thousand followers. Okay. If he took those followers said, hey, these are people that are interested me, which they are. And he started putting he started sharing game news because gaming podcast. He started sharing of once a week of funny memes about gaming or quote from the actual show where they all cracked up because so and so said this they made their own mean for it or they did a poll like these people battled this week this one versus this one which one wins ah tell you what his numbers would go up exponentially. Because the audiences engaged in fines or reason to come there. When you start talking social media, there's multiple platforms. You can go Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat. Let's stick with those right now, you don't have to be out all of them. You wanna be on the one that your is on first and foremost for this Scott has a huge audience. Right. Yeah. He's got an audience there. So okay there there. Let's let's keep pushing that actually the best. 00:20:01 - 00:25:02 He has ever said all that. Two posts ago back in April. He posted one of his kids that said, it's bring your kids to work day. It's the best. It's the only thing that's not a promotion at. It's the best because you look at it. You're like, oh, those Scots kids. That's awesome. Something behind the scenes something backstage. It's something different. That's what you want. And if he was able to build that kind of value add start getting in conversation with people because then when you have that people might like it. They might make a comment that post has eight hearts and account. Look at all other ones, not the same amount for every eight likes and a comet is that a lot. No is a lot compared to the others. Yes. Keep it rolling. I I'm definitely going to be talking to Scott ended earns domain about content creation because they have audience. Let's do some basic content creation to provide value to your customer. That's the key provide value at it's gotta be like, you're just giving it away something that they're interested in your audience. Kevin is interested in table top gaming. So every week when geeks gogo posted a review of game off drive through our PG share it. Okay. When you play new game, right? Short review of it only share it through your Twitter account, or or write your blog and share the link to the blog with something extra. You know? Hey, I really dug this game. You got to read my review, I got lost in the whatever. So that people feel like, oh, there's a reason I follow him on Twitter because he's giving me a little something more. Okay. But we're gonna start small we're gonna get your shows posted. You're going to share other people's stuff. Geeks goes a great one to share from. I'll go check it out as soon as we're doing this, man. And you should you should share things from breath through our they're doing they advertise when they've got like their daily discount put that out every day and make sure you use hashtags and make sure you you do all that. And they're going to take notice and they might start sharing your stuff. Okay. Make sense. You does what's another question resent it for today? Yeah. I think that'll be today because I don't wanna go too far from where we got our lying right right at I guess. I'm sorry. I got one more. Go ahead. How does? How do the Twitter numbers compute to downloads? Our example in April, I had nine hundred nine downloads, right at least that's the number. Matt gave me, but I've only been posting to Twitter, you know, three times a week when show comes out. Yeah. They don't. Okay. They don't could they. Yes. Think of it as you're putting advertisement out there at advertisement usually get a one to three percent return on. So if if you've got thirty thousand followers, you should pick up between three hundred and while neck as three thousand listens. Which is pretty significant. Right. Yeah. Well, three thousand three thousand would be ten percent so three hundred but that's three hundred extra listens. Because people saw your stuff on there. And they clicked on it. And it Bill audience out of that post now that there's no way those are hard numbers. Okay. I'm just making up. But but the the one to three percent is a real thing in advertising. So if you think of it as advertising is really just engagement. It's engagement with your audience. That's what you're trying to do is give them engagement. So they feel value. So they wanna talk to you. And that's when they wanna listen to your show. So Scott's numbers do not translate to his downloads. They should. It's because he's not providing value. So all they're seeing this promotion every time if they felt like they were in conversation with their his download numbers would be even higher. Okay. If you're looking for it to happen in a month. That's not gonna happen. Right. All right. K and anyone that's listening. Listen gaming, Scott. If you like gaming shows, it's a fantastic show. I love when he has interviews. They're phenomenal. The phenomenal. Time to grow that audience. Chime for me to do my job and be an executive producer get him growing that audience because I'm telling you, it's it's a excellent excellent show. 00:25:02 - 00:27:45 That deserves to be heard it deserves that audience. It has a lot more. So. Yeah. Gaming with Scott, excellent show, at of course, the Kevin long show is an excellent show our Kevin give your social media again, you can find us on Twitter at the Kevin long S H one. You can find us on Facebook by searching, the Kevin long show or you can Email us at the Kevin long show at gmaiLcom rate. And if you are going to post something you wanna post something to either of us one, let's let's do a hashtag for. What do we call this creators lab do hashtag? Okay. If you want to send something to us regarding this particular thing use the hashtag creators lab, I think that'd be pretty cool. We might get a few post here and there and trust me if you post that I've read it, and I'm gonna respond. The other thing is use the hashtag support. Indie podcasts always used that. Because that's what we're all about. And if you have questions for me right to me at Southgate, small business G, mail dot com. You can also find me on Twitter at our Southgate or on Instagram at rob Southgate, or you can find a centre website Southgate media group dot com where we've got over a hundred shows, and blogs, and podcasts blogs and all sorts of stuff going on. And if you have questions don't hesitate to write in for that matter, we might end up putting on a show if you've got a good one I recorded another group that. Wanted me to review their show, and I'll bring that out here in the next couple of weeks I recorded with them in talked all about their show. So stay tuned for that this week. We have our next guest. I don't know. Did you listen to the Scott Philbrick one? I did which I think I thought it was great. That's where my that's where my questions were coming from. That's yeah. Good good. It's one of my favorites this week. I believe I'm going to do the Queen Cuomo episode which Queen is she's at the time recorded into podcasters, she's kind of killing it right now. But what I recorded this back in December. She was still kind of new and get her feet wet. It's really interesting to get the perspective of somebody like her versus somebody like Scott Philbrick and hearing how they're kind of saying the same things, even though, you know, it's the common knowledge we all have, but one is putting into action the different way than the other. So stay tuned for that win Cuomo is the one I'm going to Thursday. Decision was just made until next time. Kevin I will talk to you next week until time keep creating.

Imagine you are a manager of a supermarket and you're working with health authorities to increase the purchase of healthy foods. Let's say broccoli. What would you change? What comes to mind might be changing price, creating attractive displays or providing information on how to make tasty dishes with broccoli. But there might be other surprising options, according to our guests, neuro-economist Scott Huettel and Nicolette Sullivan. About Scott Huettel and Nicolette Sullivan Dr. Scott Huettel is Chair of the Department of Psychology and neuroscience at Duke University doctrine. Nicolette Sullivan is finishing a postdoctoral fellowship at Duke before joining the faculty of the London School of Economics as assistant professor of marketing. Interview Summary Nikki, many people may not familiar be familiar with your professional specialty, neuroeconomics. Could you please explain what this is? Absolutely. So the word neuro economics comes from joining two different academic disciplines, neruroscience and economics. And so the idea is to use techniques from neuroscience and psychology so that we can gain a better understanding of actually how we make economic and social decisions. The idea behind that is not just to understand why people make the choices that they do but to use that information to help us improve predictions of behavior, as well as to use that information to improve interventions to improve people's choices. Well, thank you for that explanation of this very exciting field. Scott, you and Nikki and colleagues did a fascinating study published in the Journal of Psychological Science. What is the main problem that your study was designed to address? Can you explain how the study was designed? Yeah, I'd be happy to. So we were interested in how people make simple dietary choices such as between an indulgent option, like a candy bar, and a discipline option, like a piece of broccoli. And we know that many people often will choose indulgent options even when they have a long term goal to eat healthy options. So we want to understand the mechanisms behind these choices and also to identify ways of shaping decisions so that people make more of these healthier choices. So we gave people choices between pairs of food items like again, candybars and broccoli. But for some of those choices we introduce the novel manipulation--something that's called a common consequence. Now a common consequence us something that you might receive regardless of what you choose. So it's, it's an option that you have some chance of getting no matter what else you choose. Now, decision science says that these common consequences should be irrelevant to your choices, meaning that you should only choose based on the things that differ based on the consequences of your choice. But we had the intuition, based on some other research, that this could actually drive behavior.  So it could push people's choices around. So we wanted to see how these common consequences could drive choice behavior. And we also thought they might have an influence on how people attend it, that, that they might drive attention in this case toward the more disciplined food items. And so we measured attention simultaneously with the subject's choice behavior using a technique called eye tracking. Can you explain just quickly what eye tracking involves? Yeah, eye tracking involves basically a camera that looks a lot like a Webcam and it uses a very weak infrared light to identify the position of the eye, and basically a reflection off your eye and can identify where you're looking on a computer screen with pretty good precision. And so we can tell where someone is looking over a display, and identify their location within I would say a few pixels of just difference on the screen and we can measure that about 60 times a second. So, Nikki, would you describe what the main findings were from the study? What we found was that when you more discipline foods to a choice set - so something not tasty, like spinach for example, or broccoli, your decisions don't really change that much. But when we add more indulgent foods, like potato chips or candy bars, as a common consequence, people ended up actually choosing the healthier options more often. So Nikki, if you are the supermarket manager then, and you were attempting to maximize the purchase of broccoli, how would you take the results from your study and change things? What we think that we're doing by introducing these more indulgent foods like candy bars, is that we're creating what psychologists call a pop out effect. And what that means is basically in a sea of candy bars one green apple will stand out. What we found is that that is drawing people's attention to the healthier items and making them basically easier to choose. In contrast, the food desert interventions that are often used, they segregate the healthier options, and they remain in a separate section. For example, adding a produce section to a corner market. And that would be easy to ignore, to walk right past it to the potato chips--which is what people do. So our findings indicate that segregating these healthier items is exactly what we should not be doing. Instead, a more effective approach maybe to add these healthier options to the snack food aisle, to draw consumers attention and hopefully make it easier for them to make that healthy choice. So Scott, why do you think all this happens? Nicky mentioned the pop out effect. Is that pretty much the reason or is there more to it than that? Well, I think there's several reasons. So the pop out effect is one of our best hypotheses for why this happens. There's other explanations that is sense, at different levels. So one possibility is that this pop out effect, is actually part of a process that actually changes how people perceive the healthfulness and taste of foods. One thing that we know from much research in decision science is that the value of an item depends on what's around it. In the case of food, a food that is surrounded by more healthful items may actually seem less healthful in consequence. And so we did some analyses in this study to look at how presenting these common consequences actually changes how people see healthfulness and taste of food items. And what seems to be the case is that if you introduce these irrelevant common consequences that are very indulgent, so tasty but not healthy, it actually turns out to emphasize the discipline nature, the health consequences, of the foods the person is choosing from. In other words, by putting sort of irrelevant options around it that are very tasty, it actually changes how people perceive the healthfulness of the options they are choosing between. And so this seems particularly important because it emphasizes, as Nikki mentioned, the idea that how you perceive a food very much will depend upon the qualities of the food surrounding it. And some cases very literally surrounding it as in the case of an array of food in the supermarket or corner store. Does it also affect how people perceive the less healthy options? Yeah, so we think it does. Although one thing that was interesting is we had an asymmetry in the results. So we found, as Nikki mentioned, that these common indulging consequences pushed people towards making more disciplined choices. Well that's great. I mean that's what we wanted to see if there's an intervention. But the math predicts that we should see it in both directions. We should actually see if people have, in this case the common disciplined consequence, it should make people make worse, indulgent choices. And we didn't see that there was an increased number of indulgent choices in this study. Now, one feature is that people tend to default to indulgent choices. And so there's a possible floor effect that people were already so biased toward making indulgent choices, there's just not much room to push them more toward those choices. So we think that the mechanism should work in both directions. You can push people toward making better choices or worse. But in our study, we only found the one direction: pushing people toward making better, more disciplined choices by introducing this manipulation. Well, this work is absolutely fascinating, Nikki, here do see this work going in the future and sort of applications do you think it may have? The idea that you can introduce a sort of disciplined item to a larger array of indulgent items to get people to make healthier choices, I think that is a very interesting avenue for future food desert interventions to try. Because as far as I know, they really haven't tried anything like that before. And our results suggest it could have a profound impact on people's choices.  

GUEST BIO: Scott Tolinski is a Senior Web Developer for Team Detroit and formerly a web applications developer for The University of Michigan. Additionally Scott is a freelance web designer and developer, and provides private training and consultancy on various web topics.  Scott is also co-creator of Level Up Tutorials, providing free training to developers looking to learn something new. EPISODE DESCRIPTION: Scott Tolinski is Phil’s guest on today’s I.T. Career Energizer podcast. He is a former Team Detroit developer who also worked for The University of Michigan as an applications developer. For several years he was a Senior Developer with Q LTD. Today, Scott runs his own web development teaching company. In 2012, he started Level Up Tutorials alongside Ben Schaaf. Today, Scott runs the business and has turned it into the go-to learning resource for developers. KEY TAKEAWAYS: (1.09) – So Scott, can you expand on that brief introduction and tell us a little bit more about yourself? Scott starts out by explaining that he actually left Team Detroit, a while ago, but has not yet updated his website to reflect that fact. He is now working full time on Level Up Tutorials. That means recording, editing, producing and coding between 20 and 25 videos per month. As well as, updating and maintaining the actual website. Scott describes his website as being - a magazine for coding tutorials. Scott also produces a twice weekly web development podcast called Syntax, with Wes Bos. They approach the subject of web development from the point of view of teachers. The podcasts offer effective web development lessons in a format that is easy for everyone to access and use anywhere. (2.34) – Phil asks Scott for a unique IT career tip. Scott’s advice is to never be afraid of new opportunities. It was his dad that made him realize the benefits of trying something new and fresh. His dad had taken advantage of each new opportunity and been very successful. So, Scott decided to do the same, even if a new opportunity seems scary, he will usually say yes and dive in. Most of the time, this approach pays off. On the rare occasion that it doesn’t, Scott quickly faces up to his mistake and moves on to something else. Leaving his job to become a full-time entrepreneur was scary, challenging and quite stressful. But, Scott does not regret a minute of it and would do the same again. (4.29) – Phil agrees that you should never let fear of the unknown stop you from making a change. He quoted Richard Branson who said – “Work hard, take your chances, and seize opportunities when they present themselves. Don't give in to the fear and self-doubt and instead find ways to make it happen. Those who are bold have a higher chance of being rewarded," (5.03) – Scott says that is exactly what he does. If it is a big thing, he just says yes. Later, he figures everything out. But, he points out that if it is not a big thing, you need to say no. If you do not, those little opportunities just end up getting in your way. (5.17) – At this point, Scott is asked to share his worst career moment. Scott explained that he once had the perfect job. Everything was great, the company, the work and the people he was working with, he loved it. But, he got tempted and took another job. Basically, because it was a little bit more big time and, of course, there was a pay bump. He soon realized that the grass was not greener in his new role. The projects were bad and the designers not as experienced. Plus, they were using outdated techniques and the management team did not really care much about the work. Often, Scott was getting his part of the project completed months ahead of schedule. Yet, when that happened, the management team didn’t give him any meaningful work to fill in the gap. However, this situation was not all bad. Scott legitimately ended up with a lot of free time on his hands. So, he was able to learn a lot of new things. He learned Backbone, Angular and Ember. After six months, he was able to take all of that knowledge and land a really sweet gig. (7.57) – What else did you learn from that experience? Scott said that it gave him a different perspective on work in general. It made him think about the type of people he wanted to work with and the kinds of projects he wanted to be involved in. That experience taught him not to just settle. Instead, he searches out exciting projects and ensures that he will be working with a good team. (8.56) – Phil asks Scott what his best career moment was. Scott says that it was probably quitting his job and working for himself. He feels particularly good about being able to provide for his family off the back of something that he created. Interestingly, it was not his intention to earn his living from his tutorial work. At first, he just posted his work to YouTube. It came as a big surprise to learn that he could translate that into a business that paid enough for him to be able to take care of his family. Not being a born entrepreneur means that, for Scott, learning to run his own company was a steep learning curve. But, he is, understandably, proud of what he has achieved with Level Up Tutorials. (10.59) – Can you tell us what excites you about the future of the IT industry and careers, in particular? Scott finds the fact that it is so much easier to deliver the functionality that users really want to be exciting. In the past, adding something like live chat to a website would have been challenging and time-consuming. Today, it is easy and it can all be done really quickly. This frees you up to be more creative and opens up a world of possibilities for the client and their customers. Scott is excited by the fact that things will continue to evolve and get easier. (13.00) - Phil says that he is also excited about this. The ease with which web development can be done, these days, makes it possible to deliver truly appropriate solutions and do so quickly. (13.16) – Scott goes on to highlight the ease with which you can create efficient sites. For example, using React, you can now build blisteringly fast static sites. This is particularly important for people who live in parts of the world that have a slow internet connection. (14.08) – What drew you to a career in IT? Scott first got interested in IT when he wanted to add a flash intro to his band’s website. He fell in love with the problem-solving process and realized it was a great outlet for his flair for design. (14.47) – What is the best career advice you have been given? Scott says it is probably the advice he mentioned at the start of the show – take every good opportunity that is presented to you. He uses his intuition to guide him in terms of what is exciting and finds that listening to his gut is the best way to work out whether to say yes or not. (15.31) – If you were to start your IT career again, now, what would you do? When Scott went to college he had a long list of interests and things he wanted to do. He had a passion for music and was interested in graphic design and becoming a motion graphics artist. It was great to have so many interests. But, it meant that he lacked focus. So, if he were to start his IT career again, he would be sure to focus on just doing that, instead of spreading himself too thinly. (16.35) – Phil asks Scott what he is currently focusing on. Right now, Scott is working on getting better at delegating and communicating. He has a small team which he wants to grow, so that he can work more efficiently. His plan is to become more of a leader and step away a bit from being the developer of the site. (17.26) – What is the number one non-technical skill that has helped you the most in your IT career? For Scott it has been having a student mentality. Being open to learning has enabled Scott to stay ahead of developments. A fact that ensures what he teaches is never out of date. (18.27) – Phil asks Scott to share a final piece of career advice. Scott explains that he did not follow a typical career path into IT. In fact, his first few jobs had nothing to do with the industry. Plus, he does not have a computer science degree. However, he would not let this stop him from working in IT. His parting piece of advice is not to let where you are today hold you back. Become a good student, learn and keep on pushing forwards to secure the job you really want. BEST MOMENTS: (2.55) Scott – “I haven't ever been afraid of new opportunities, when they present themselves.” (5.03) Scott – “If it's a big thing, I almost always say yes, and figure it out later.” (12.20) Scott – “Two years down the line, what kind of experiences am I going to be able to give people that I couldn't give them right now.” (18.01) Scott – “My number one non-technical skill is my ability or drive to want to continue to grow myself and my abilities as a developer.” (18.53) Scott – “Do not let whatever your current situation is hold you back from where you want to be” CONTACT SCOTT: Twitter: https://twitter.com/stolinski LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stolinski/ Website: www.scotttolinski.com

Dr Carolyn Lam: Welcome to Circulation on the Run, your weekly podcast summary and backstage pass to the journal and it's editors. We're your co-hosts of Circulation on the Run and if you don't know what this show is about, well, you have to listen to the previous episodes in January please.                                 I'm Dr Carolyn Lam, associate editor from the National Heart Center and Duke National University of Singapore. Greg Hundley:   I'm Greg Hundley from the Pauley Heart Center at VCU Health in Richmond, Virginia. Dr Carolyn Lam: So Greg, before we pick up our coffees and begin discussing a couple of the paper, let's just tell everyone that this feature paper, they have to listen to because it is the results of the cardiac amyloidosis section, or sub-set of the APOLLO study. Have to listen to this one. But how about the other papers in today's issue Greg? Greg Hundley:   Right Carolyn, the first one I'm going to start with is from Alexander Fanaroff at Duke University and the DCRI. And basically, this particular paper was looking at the procedural volume and how that might affect outcomes with those that are performing PCI. So they divided the cohort into those individuals that had less than 50 PCIs per year, 50 to 100 and then greater than 100 PCIs per year. So, this is looking at our national cardiovascular data registry within the United States, and of course, as you know, that's linked to Medicare claims data for those that are over 65 years in age. So they had 723,644 PCIs performed by 8,936 operators. And the surprise in this study was that those low volume operators, less than 50 PCIs per year had a one year rate of 15.9% of MACE as opposed to those that were high volume operators that had 16.9% MACE rates. That was significant at a P value of .004. Dr Carolyn Lam: Wait a minute, this seems different from prior reports. Are you saying that those with low volume operators actually had lower mortality? Greg Hundley:   Yeah, exactly. And you've pointed out something, cause previously what's been shown is that high volume operators have lower 30 day and in-hospital mortality rates. And that was actually confirmed in this study. But out of a year it was really the low volume operators in unadjusted results had lower rates of all MACE.                                 A very nice editorial by Dharam Kumbhani from UT Southwestern points out that high volume operators do tend to take on more serious cases, those with higher numbers of cardiovascular risk factors. And so, when they did adjustments and accounted for all those risk factors, actually the event rates were the same. Still though, they're the same. And so what could be going on? And the editorialist and also the authors of the paper point out, "Hey, maybe we shouldn't just be focusing on PCI volume per operator, but other quality metrics to look at outcomes. And so this really builds in to the whole quality discussion. Adherence to therapy with the patients in your health care system. What about operator longevity? An operator that may have been doing this for 10 years but has a lower volume, maybe that could come into play. So future studies I think, certainly all over the world in this field, this paper's going to direct us to focus more on other quality issues and not just procedural volume. Dr Carolyn Lam: So, quality versus quantity. Interesting.                                 Well switching gears to a paper that I thought was nice, it is from Dr Lubitz from Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and colleagues, and they sought to answer the question of whether refining a phenotypic classification of heart failure would facilitate genetic discovery. So, to do that, they defined all cause heart failure among almost 500,000 participants in the UK bio-bank and performed a GWAS study and then later refined the heart failure phenotype by classifying individuals with left ventricular dysfunction but without coronary artery disease as having nonischemic cardiomyopathy and then repeated the GWAS. And basically they found that the GWAS in the all cause heart failure yielded multiple genetic signals for known heart failure risk factors, such as coronary artery disease and atrial fibrillation.                                 However, after refining the heart failure phenotype to a nonischemic cardiomyopathy sub-set, this enhanced the detection of genetic loci associated with dilated cardiomyopathy, which appeared to operate independent of the traditional heart failure risk factors. So that was pretty interesting. Greg Hundley:   So where do we go from here with that Carolyn? I mean, what is this telling us and how are we going to move forward with this information? Dr Carolyn Lam: I think the clinical implications are first that common genetic variants associated with both clinical and sub-clinical heart failure, because they looked at left ventricular dysfunction, these genetic variants may be leveraged to improve heart failure risk prediction and prevention. But obviously future studies are warranted to investigate the prognostic and therapeutic implications of these findings. Greg Hundley:   Very good. Well I'm going to take us back into the cath lab again and we're going to address fractional flow reserve. And remember, typically, we get fractional flow reserve measures using guide wires, and that's kind of a tough thing to do sometimes in terms of adding links to the procedure, etc. So what these investigators did, they had 10 centers in the United States, Europe and Israel. And this was William Fearon from Stanford University who did this study. And they looked at 301 subjects and they had 319 evaluable vessels. Now what did they compare? They looked at guide wire derived fractional flow reserve versus angiographic derived. Simply, just when you're doing the injections, looking at how quickly that contrast flows down the coronary arteries.                                 And so, in this study the mean fractional flow reserve value was 0.81 and 43% of the vessels they studied had an FFR less than or equal to that magic number of 0.8. Interestingly, the angiographic obtained FFR measures were 94% sensitive and 91% specific for identifying the guide wire derived FFR. That's really incredible. And importantly, the accuracy of this contrast measure was 87% for FFR values between 0.75 and 0.85, that magical threshold. Dr Carolyn Lam: Well that is impressive, suggesting that we don't need guide wires. I mean, is that true for all patients? All vessels? Greg Hundley:   Right, so that's sort of the kick here, this is really interesting new data but let's look at the patients that they studied. First of all, they were relatively stable I would say. They had either angina or maybe even unstable angina and non-ST elevation MIs. But no ST elevation MIs. The average stenosis by angiography that they looked at was about 63% and then, very importantly, you have to look at the exclusion criteria. So things that, other conditions within the heart that are going to impact FFR were excluded. So, all their patients had an EF greater than 45%. Nobody had a CABG. Nobody had a chronic total occlusion. Nobody had a heart transplant, aortic stenosis, no heart valve surgery, no left main. It couldn't have had a recent stent within 12 months. It couldn't have had severe diffused disease, no collaterals, no in-stent thrombosis or stenosis. So this technique I think could be useful when you've got that patient perhaps with stable angina, single vessel disease, stenosis severity of 50 to 60% and none of these other conditions, preserved EF etc. But for many of the patients that we send to the cath lab, this technique, we still need a little bit more development. We don't know its utility. You've got another paper? Dr Carolyn Lam: I've got another few papers because I'm going to drag you out of the cath lab right now and into the ICU. And we're talking about cardiogenic shock and it's really nice that we have these three papers in today's issue. One's an original paper and two are On my Mind articles. Now the original paper talks about the randomized shock cool trial. This is from Dr Thiele from the heart center Leipzig in University Hospital in Germany. And it is an un-blinded, randomized trial of 40 patients with cardiogenic shock undergoing primary percutaneous coronary intervention. And without a classical indication from mild therapeutic hypothermia, but randomized one-to-one to mild therapeutic hypothermia for 24 hours versus control. And basically the mild therapeutic hypothermia did not show a substantial beneficial effect on the primary outcome of cardiac power index at 24 hours or on any other of the hemodynamic parameters. And there was also no difference in the short and long term outcomes. So a neutral trial.                                 But taking a step back and just talking about these patients with cardiogenic shock and all the different ways that we have now to keep them alive, I really want to highlight these two On My Mind papers. One is by Drs Gill, Grunau and MacRedmond from University of British Columbia. And they really talk about the need to define limits for extracorporeal cardiopulmonary resuscitation. In a very similar vein, Drs Mulaikal, Nakagawa and Prager from Columbia University also wrote a beautiful piece on ECMO, ECMO as a bridge to no recovery. And when is enough enough? So really, really interesting conversations and discussions regarding what is death, when do we have to put a time limit perhaps to these therapies? And yet not limit the potential life-saving effects of these. I really strongly encourage our listeners to read these papers and also to stay tuned because coming right up, a very important paper on the APOLLO study in our feature discussion.                                 For today's feature paper we're discussing the results of a sub-study of the APOLLO study. Now this deals with cardiac amyloidosis, a super, super hot subject. And we have super, super hot guests today on the show. The first our corresponding author, doctor Scott Solomon from Brigham and Women's Hospital as well as our associate editor doctor Justin Ezekowitz. Welcome both, and let's just plunge straight into it. So Scott, tell us, tell us about this APOLLO sub-study. Scott Solomon: APOLLO is a study of patients with hereditary transthyretin amyloidosis and, as you know, that hereditary transthyretin amyloidosis is an inherited disease caused by mutations of the transthyretin gene and these mutations cause the transthyretin protein to misfold and then accumulate as amyloid fibrils which go to the nerves and go to the heart. And we know that this can cause severe polyneuropathy and cardiomyopathy, partly depending on which mutation the patients have. And we, as cardiologists, are aware that when amyloid infiltrates the heart it can increase cardiac wall thickness, it can cause increase in chamber stiffness, it can result in severe diastolic dysfunction and these patients, often with cardiac involvement of amyloid, have a really markedly reduced life-span and really poor quality of life.                                 The APOLLO study was a study of a new agent that is designed to reduce transthyretin, it's a transthyretin knock-down agent. It's basically an RNAi therapeutic, it basically is a small, interfering RNA that basically blocks the production of transthyretin and this is one of several approaches that are currently being considered for amyloid disease. And APOLLO is primarily designed as a study to look at neuropathy. The primary end-point was a neurologic scale to look at neuropathy, but it was also designed to secondarily look at some cardiac end-points, especially in the patients who were felt to have cardiac involvement. Dr Carolyn Lam: Cool. And so your current paper deals with that cardiac amyloidosis sub-set, but it was pre-specified, it was planned, right? Scott Solomon: Yeah, it was a pre-specified sub-group. In fact, what we did is we actually did echocardiograms on everybody in the study and then defined a pre-specified cardiac sub-population that was comprised of patients who had a very high likelihood of having cardiac amyloid involvement, and so this was patients who had a baseline left ventricular wall thickness of 13mm or greater and no history of either aortic valve disease or hypertension. And so this was a group that we thought most likely had evidence of cardiac involvement. And just so it's clear, we did echocardiography on everybody in the study and in this paper we reported in both everybody and in the pre-specified cardiac sub-population. So we looked a number of things in these patients including various measures of cardiac structure function including wall thickness, left ventricular mass, ejection fraction, cardiac output, atrial size, volumes and myocardial strain which, as you know, has been particularly useful in assessment of patients with amyloidosis. And we also looked at reduction or improvement in Anti-proBNP which, as you know, is a very good measure of the severity of heart failure in patients.                                 And so, of the 225 patients who enrolled overall in the APOLLO study, 126 were part of this pre-specified cardiac sub-population. And in this group of patients, we've observed a reduction in left ventricular wall thickness of about a millimeter. And this was statistically significant in the patients who were treated with patisiran compared with placebo. We also saw an improvement in global longitudinal strain and improvement of cardiac output and an increase of left ventricular end-diastolic volume. In this case an increase in end-diastolic volume is actually a good thing because these patients often start out with smaller end-diastolic volumes because of the increased wall thickness. Those improvements in echocardiography were really paralleled by dramatic improvements in Anti-proBNP and we started out with patients with abnormal Anti-proBNPs in the range of about 800. These were significantly reduced, highly significantly reduced with a P value of about seven times 10 to minus eighth at both nine and 18 months, so pretty dramatic relative reduction in Anti-proBNP in the patisiran group compared to placebo. Dr Carolyn Lam: Super exciting, and it really adds to mounting evidence isn't it? That we're sort of reaching a really effective treatment for these patients and who knows how common they are. But Justin, you've been thinking a lot about this, what are your thoughts? Justin Ezekowitz: This is a terrific paper, and this is a groundbreaking therapy. Scott, this really has something for everybody, for example functional Anti-proBNP and echocardiographic measures of improvement and also less deterioration which I think is also holding it in its tracks. The question is, if you have 126 patients in the cardiac sub-group, whether or not this is really prime for clinical integration, as to start using this therapy broadly or do we need to really broaden the scope and do larger outcome studies with this therapy for these patients, recognizing some of the gaps in any clinical trial design and implementation. So what are your thoughts on that? Scott Solomon: First of all, it's important to remember that the APOLLO study was designed primarily to look at the neurologic outcomes, not the cardiac outcomes. The cardiac outcomes were technically considered exploratory and, in fact, although really pretty impressive in this group, this wasn't really how the study was designed. And so the current indication for this particular therapy. Patisiran is for the improvement in the neurologic outcomes, not for the cardiac. So I think that there will need to be additional studies that will look more specifically at the cardiac effects, although I think these are among the most impressive findings we've seen with any agent that is interfering with transthyretin. And just to put this in context, there are a variety of ways in which amyloid can be affected and one of the other approaches to this disease has been not to reduce the production of transthyretin but to stabilize transthyretin.                                 And you may be aware of the ATTRACT trial which was presented at ESC and published in the New England Journal, which was actually an outcomes trial in patients with cardiomyopathy secondary amyloid and they used a drug which is a TTR stabilizer and showed a significant reduction in cardiac events and mortality. And I think that in the context of that study, this is extremely exciting as well because it says that there are multiple potential approaches to affecting transthyretin and potentially improving outcomes in patients with cardiac amyloidosis. There are other approaches that also are being tested. In fact, another therapy that works in a similar way to patisiran is atersin which is an agulo nucleotide anti-sense molecule. And so, I think that it's such an exciting time now in this field because there almost certainly will be several different approaches to transthyretin amyloidosis.                                 So, I think, Justin, to succinctly answer your question I don't think we're quite ready yet with patisiran but stay tuned because there will be more trials for sure. The other thing that we have to realize is that this study was done in mutant or hereditary amyloidosis but there's a very broad group of patients out there with wild type amyloidosis and there's no reason to think that a therapy like this won't work there as well. So that has to be tested too. Justin Ezekowitz: I think, Scott, that's a true way to put it. I think one of the other questions is the substantial difference between the trials and sub-groups of the trial between the three major therapies you just described about wild type versus hereditary. It does make you wonder if either one individual therapy or a combination of the therapies might give the right way to precisely manage these individuals according to their phenotype, neurologic status or cardiac status. So, I maybe just want to draw you on one other point which is that you used global longitudinal strain as one of your outcomes and it sounds like, and from all the data we've seen, it looks like GLS will be the way to go for earlier phase two and other types of studies. What are your thoughts based on experience? Scott Solomon: Well in general I'm a big fan of global longitudinal strain because I think it is, in many respects, more robust than our standard measures of cardiac function like ejection fraction, it's not volume dependent the way ejection fraction is. In particular in amyloid heart disease, as you know, global longitudinal strain can be quite abnormal and, interestingly, it can be quite abnormal in a very specific pattern. And patients with amyloid is typically sparing at the apex, so the apical strain is relatively normal compared to the strain at the base of the heart. And this is kind of interesting and we've certainly been looking at this as well in amyloid heart disease but I agree that this global longitudinal strain as a measure of potential benefit for a therapy has a lot of potential. Dr Carolyn Lam: You know, that's just so amazing. I just have one last question for both of you. Where do you think the field is going? Do you think it's going to be a race to treatment or a race to diagnosis? I shudder to think of the number of cases we're missing, what do you think Justin? Justin Ezekowitz: Carolyn you just brought up a great point which is, one is our diagnostics need to improve and be broadly applicable and implementable in any health care system, so I think that race has to speed up and become more cost-effective and efficient to know who indeed we need to screen closer. That's point number one but number two is the therapies ... the race has to be focused around what will be the best way to treat patients rather than the cost-effectiveness initially, but then once we identify the three or four different agents that work with different groups and how you can combine them, then the consideration has to be how we can apply these more broadly to the groups that really haven't had a therapy that has had a meaningful impact trajectory. Dr Carolyn Lam: Scott, what do you think? Scott Solomon: Well I would add that one of the most exciting things I think in this area, Carolyn, and this is going to interest you I think because of your own interests, is that there's probably a lot of amyloid out there that we don't know about. Especially in these patients that we're currently calling heart failure with preserved ejection fraction. There's some data from Mayo clinic and from groups in Europe suggesting that 15 to 20% of patients with HFpEF, might actually have wild type transthyretin amyloid. And that means that we've got to get better at making this diagnosis, especially where our suspicions are high. Because we might all of sudden have a targeted therapy for some of these patients, so I think that's one area where things are really exciting. And then with respect to which of these therapies is going to be beneficial, I mean I think that we're still in the early stages, it's very possible as Justin said that even a combination of TTR stabilizers and knock-down agents are going to provide the best benefit. But I think we're going to see a lot of very interesting studies in the next several years in this field. It's really great to have a potential molecular target, and targeted therapy for a type of cardiomyopathy and I think this is one of the really few areas where we have that as this point. So I'm extremely excited. Dr Carolyn Lam: Thank you so much for publishing your paper with us in Circulation.                                 Well audience you heard it right here on Circulation on the Run. Don't forget to tune in again next week.                                 This program is copyright American Heart Association 2019.  

Big or small, organizing events is essential to business. Turning your networks into partners and sponsors to your event can be a tricky part though. But it’s tricky no more as seasoned business development, sales, and sponsorship professional, Scott Morrison himself, tells it all. It all started with his passion for making recommendations on anything. Eventually, it was all about recommending the right partnerships to other businesses. In this remarkable conversation with our host, Scott shares his strategies and success stories in getting organizations to say yes. The first questions to ask yourself is this: What do your clients need that is beyond what you provide? Which businesses can provide such needs? Certainly, it does not stop in messaging your potential sponsors on Facebook or giving them a call. So Scott also talks about creating packages and the contract that you and your partner are willing to discuss and agree on. Keep your ears on this episode and learn how to be comfortable with not only connecting but also making the offer and closing the deal.    

At Quiet Light, we recently sent out a survey to our buyers to get insight into what they really want to learn about the buying and selling process. Today the hosts of Quiet Light are sharing the number one thing that first-time buyers want to know about getting the inside track to a deal. How do they break into the industry if they lack the experience in acquiring? This episode is just Joe and Mark, guest free, talking about breaking into the business for the first, second, or even the tenth time. They are sharing five things to keep in mind when shopping. There are a whole host of things you should do as well as things you should not do. Joe and Mark have built, bought, and sold businesses and have helped countless deals come to light, so you can trust that they learned all of this from hands-on experience! Episode Highlights: Give really good feedback. Review as many listing as possible in detail. Put time into the process. Make it a job. Prepare your financials. Get out on the conference circuit. Make a checklist of wants. Act quickly. Be likable to the buyer and the broker. Tell us what else are you doing. Be willing to overpay for a great business. Transcription: Mark: As you know we recently put out a survey for our buyers. And by the time this airs we're already going to have closed on that survey … that poll and we should have some really good conclusions. Nobody at Quiet Light other than myself knows the results of the polls yet. And I've been maniacally hitting refresh seeing what people are saying both the good and the bad and sometimes the ugly of what's being said. But I'll share one thing with you, Joe, right now that has come through that we've heard from a number of buyers and that is wanting to know how to get the inside track on deals. Basically feeling like there is this completely competitive disadvantage if they're a first time buyer. And there's some truth to this right? I mean if I've got three buyers looking at one of my deals and I have one that we've done four deals with already I'm probably going to prefer that buyer just because I already know them. They're a known quantity. We're going to be able to go through due diligence with them. We know what to expect. We know that they're going to not get cold feet at the 11th hour and so it's a problem for new buyers. How do you break into this industry? How do you break into your first acquisition? How do you get the best deals when you're competing against some guys that maybe have done three or four deals with us already? So this episode is containing no guests. We don't have any guests. It's just Joe and me talking about how to get the inside track to deals. And Joe I gave you an exercise at what … like 7 o'clock this morning I texted you and I told you to write some things down. Joe: You did. But first I want to say that to those listening that are first time buyers I've been at this for seven years, Mark's been at it for more than a decade, and I can only think of one buyer that has bought three listings from us. Maybe two actually if I think Shakil and 101. So there's only a handful of people like that that have bought more than three and then maybe a few more that have bought more than two. So I think the competitive advantage is in preparation and instilling confidence. We've had new buyers that beat repeat buyers. So I don't want anyone listening to feel like they're second in line, there's no way to break in. And that's the purpose of this podcast correct? So yes you gave me a task this morning. Thank you. I did not sleep last night and I know I'm doing the podcast and then you send me a text that says “Come up with a list of five things buyers can do to get the inside track on our listings.” Thank you for that. Mark: You're welcome and I came up with a list a little late like 10 minutes ago of five things as well. And I had to think about it because five was just kind of an arbitrary number right? If we want to get really minute we could probably come up with 12. If we want to talk about the big points it's probably three or four. But I think that what you said is true. I hope people that are listening to this, especially first time buyers that maybe have been looking a while and feel like they don't have inside access to deals will end this episode knowing that there is more myth to that than reality. And you can be an established buyer by following some basic principles. We'll go over some of those today. So I think the reason I sent you that text Joe I thought it'd be kind of fun to compare lists to see if you and I would agree on what these five things are. And honestly, I made my list a little bit with the knowledge of what I thought you would be putting on your list. So I purposely tried to avoid things and also get a little bit more creative. Joe: I did the same. Oh my God, we're a match made in heaven. Mark: Well no doubt. Now we're not going to be hitting any of the key points because we're going to be avoiding the obvious. So if we missed the key points we'll include them at the end here. But I don't know how you want to go about this, do you want me to just go with my first and then you talk about your first? Joe: Yeah. Mark: All right the first is really simple. It's super simple. Give really good feedback. Like just give us some feedback on what you like and didn't like about a listing. It's really easy … if I'm talking to a buyer and you look at one of my listings and you don't like it, it doesn't fit, that's totally fine. Let me know. But in addition to letting me know maybe give me a call and say “Hey I really appreciate you showing this” now you don't have to say that but you can say “I took a look at it it's not a good fit. I was kind of looking for something more along these lines”. The more conversations you have like that with someone like myself or Joe our anybody at Quiet Light Brokerage, the more that sticks out in our minds. Not only does it A. give us really good feedback on our listing which we can use to help get that listing sold but it also helps establish a relationship between us. And when we're bringing a business to market oftentimes we think about well who's a good fit? Who are some people that I know? And obviously, we can go into our database and start to do some matching. But if there's somebody that we know and we know they're a good fit yeah they're going to get … we're going to think of them, they're going to become like top of mind. We actually had this recently with a discussion we had internally at Quiet Light. Often when somebody is taking on a new client and they want some feedback on maybe the valuation or their approach or any strategy we'll have an internal discussion about it. We have just a generic email address and we all talk about it. And one of the brokers, Bryan was talking about a client that he was kind of worried about whether or not he'd able to find a good match for it and he wanted some feedback. And what immediately came to mind was one of our buyers Matt and we said maybe you should talk to Matt and see what he thinks about it and you know this will give him a chance to have an advance look at the listing. And sure enough, Bryan came back and said I already talked to him. And you know why two of us thought of him? Because we talk to him on a regular basis and he reaches out to us and we consider him a friend of the company. So that's my first item, give good feedback. Don't just say not interested. You can say thank you, you don't have to say thank you. I had somebody say that recently and said “thanks not for us”. All right that's nice but that doesn't really help me that much. Tell me why. Explain to me why so that I can at least have that in my mind. Joe: And that's the building of the relationship. Whenever I get feedback … I ask for it every time, all of us do saying if it's not for you, let us know your thoughts on the listing. And the professional buyers … meaning they're just professional people, thoughtful people they send us that kind of email. And my response to them is “Understood. Thank you. We will find the right one for you eventually”. If I've written that 500 times, I've written it a million times. I'm not sure if that math makes sense but I write it all the time. And I mean it because I know that it is an arduous search trying to find the right listing and these people are trying really hard to find it, they're reviewing the listings and it's a long, long process. So that goes to my first list of things to do here and these are in no particular sequence. But the first thing I wrote down and I've said this at least a thousand times over the last few years, review as many listings as possible in detail. And I wrote in detail in capital letters; IN DETAIL that's the most important thing. The more listings that you look at … not just the teaser that's on our website or a competitor's website; you can't really learn anything from that other than well that seems interesting but you don't really know what it is. You dive in, you look at it, and you learn what it is that you like about these listings and what you don't like about these listings. You learn what excites you about it and what scares you about it. And you begin to develop a sense for the right fit when it comes along. And that's really important because when that right fit does come along you're going to want to be able to act quickly and you've already looked at 300 listings. So you need to look at them in detail, digest the financials, look at the history of the business, look at all the products and the SKUs that are offered, and everything that we've prepared in our packages and really digest it and make your decision. And you're going to look at a lot of them. It's not an easy process. It's not a quick process. It takes a long time. One of the things that I love when I'm talking to … I'll say a new buyer, someone that I haven't spoken to before and they tell me they've been looking for a year. To me, that's great because they've gone through a lot of this and they've worked really hard to find that right listing. When someone says they've been looking for a couple of weeks or a month to me I know that they've got a longer road ahead of them and this is one of the things that I advise more often than anything else. Mark: It actually fits in really well with the next point that I had in my list and a point on there will just kind of piggyback on what you said are two just kind of general philosophies when you're talking about this process. Obviously, what you're talking about Joe it takes a lot of time and everything else I think to complement the first point I had and your point here would be two things. One, when you're looking for a business and you want to get that inside track be intentional about what you're doing. Intentionality right? So it's taking that time like you said to actually digest what you're looking at and reviewing it. I can't tell you how many times I deal with buyers or I talk to buyers who summarily dismiss a listing based on something which is frankly not an accurate assessment. But because they've already made that conclusion and despite the best efforts to be able to explain otherwise that conclusion becomes gospel truth to them and this is … they're missing out on some really good opportunities because of that. Or maybe they're not missing out, maybe they would say no otherwise but they will say no for more appropriate reasons than what they're saying no to. So that would be the first thing, intentionality. The second thing is … to piggyback on what I was in before is this is a relationship based business right? At the end of the day finding that really good business for sale is going to require some level of relationship and you need to find that blend. I think as internet entrepreneurs we love our processes. We love automation. We love efficiency. I mean that's the hallmark of what makes internet businesses so great. But you have to find that blend between slowing down and taking the time being intentional and having a process because there are a lot of listings out there that you can get a lot of deal flow coming your way. I know RJ over at 101 talks about how many deals they have looked and the numbers stay green. I mean it's well in the hundreds so you do have to have a process. But processes should not take away that intentional spending of time. And that leads into the point- Joe: Let me jump in I just want to say something in terms of the relationship Mark and being intentional. We're talking about the five things to do in between each of those five there are a number of things that you should not do. And one of them is in that relationship building don't send an email that says “I think you've overpriced this business it's only worth a 2x multiple, it's not for me”. Because the 10 year old in me wants to send an email back to them saying “thanks for your feedback it's actually currently under LOI at this time at full price”. And I've been in that situation a dozen times where I get a semi rude email on a listing that … it's been out for a week or two and some folks have looked at it we've had some conference calls and somebody sends me an email that says essentially “Joe you're a fool, you've overpriced this business. It's not worth merely what you and your client is saying it's worth.” and then that very same day where just prior to that email it's under contract at full price. That little boy in me wants to reply to that person and say “thanks for your feedback it's actually under offer at full price”. I say “thanks for your feedback we'll find the right one for you eventually” because I'm not 10 anymore but I want to. And so it is the relationship thing … again in between each of these five things to do, there's probably a half a dozen things not to do and that's really one of them. Mark: I admire your restraint. You know an appropriate response there … because look when it comes to valuations I tend to get very philosophical on this sort of stuff mainly because I've been around for 11 years and I've seen multiples that have went up way higher and I've seen a market where people weren't willing to pay more than 2.5, 2.6x on anything at all. Rather than saying you overpriced this business you can just simply say the price is too rich for me it's not a good fit at the price that it's at. That's fair. Well, you've got a price that makes sense for you. We get it. Don't tell us though that it's overpriced for the market. We listen to what every individual buyer is saying and if every … if all the individual buyers say not for me then yeah you're right. So I think that's a good point to have. All right so my second point, you're talking about going in detail. We're talking about making sure that you're talking to the broker and giving us some information about who you are, what you're looking for, why you like that, why you didn't like this. You might be hearing all of this and thinking that sounds like a ton of work. Yes, it is so that's my second point; make it a job. If your goal … when we did the survey by the way this … I'll give you another insight when we did the survey I'll tell everyone listening who took the survey a little secret. We actually had two surveys. One was just open ended questions the other one was very quantifiable information. Those that filled out the ones … the survey with very quantifiable information we asked how many businesses have you bought and the vast majority of our buyers have not bought their first business and are seeking their first acquisition within the first year. Okay, if your goal is to find a business within the next 12 months make that your job. This is what you get up in the morning, this is what you think about when you go to bed at night; how are you going to go about finding that business? Deal flow is difficult. When we put out a listing … I put out a listing recently that was 8 figures and we had almost a hundred inquiries within a couple of days. Okay, that's a substantial amount of inquiries on a single listing and that's not even close to what we get on something that's going to be in a more accessible price range. It's a competitive field so you have to make this your job. You have to dedicate the time to it. Read up on it. Subscribe to the podcast if this is the first one you're listening to it subscribe to the podcast because we're going to tell you how to do these things better and hopefully give you some insights. But read up on these materials, learn just like you do with any other thing and apply yourself to this in a full time way. Set up those processes to be able to filter through all of the noise and to be able to really take a look at the information in depth. So that's my second point; make it a job. Joe: And along those lines, my second point is prepare your financial approach. You can't get to the end point if you don't know what it is. If you're a cash buyer it's a little bit easier to understand what you're capable of stroking a check for but you also have to figure out okay if I'm buying an ecommerce business I have to buy that inventory too right? Okay is there a seller no possibility maybe on much, much larger listings but I'm over listening certainly not for the most part but that goes back to well … to whatever other points coming up. You need to prepare your financial approach if you're … if you have a limited amount of cash and you're going to do an SBA loan I love to hear from folks that are doing that that they have been pre-qualified for an SBA loan up to X dollars. And then they tell me the name of the lender. If it's somebody I don't know I'll reach out to them so we can build a relationship. If it's somebody I do know it's great, fantastic. I feel good about that because it's people in the network that we know and that we trust and that we know work hard to get deals done for buyers and sellers. If you're going to do get something under LOI now where somebody is going to be rolling over their 401k … I think it's called the ROBS. Mark's written an article on it “Quiet Light Brokerage and ROBS” and you'll find that article in Google. But that's another way to source funds to buy a business but it also … you need to understand the timelines there and how long it takes to do that. Mark, can you do a ROB without having the asset chosen that you'll purchase yet? Do you recall; yes or no? Mark: I don't recall, no. It's been a few years since I wrote that article. Joe: If you can … well read the article everyone if you can, which I think you can and you know you going to buy a business; do it, roll it over. Are you going to incur some cost up front that you're … if you're committing to buying an online business and making it a job like Mark says then you'll be prepared to buy that business because going back to my point number one you got to look as many listings as possible in great detail so that you're going to know the right listing when it comes along. And then you're going to want to be able to act fast because other people are too. It's not like you're making a quick decision here because you've been doing this for six to 12 months and looked at a hundred listings and you're prepared to act fast and you've got your financial ducks in a row. Because I can assure you if it's a great listing other buyers are looking at it and they've done this; they've prepared. It doesn't matter if it's all cash. It doesn't matter if you're rolling something over into a ROB and it doesn't matter if you're doing an SBA loan as long as you're prepared and instilling confidence in the broker and the seller of the business that you're capable of going from letter of intent all the way through to closing that's the most important thing be prepared. Mark: And to answer a question no you do not need to have the asset chosen before you convert to a ROBS. But take a look at the article; consult an expert on it because it's definitely a trickier thing to do. It's not something to do on your own I should say. You definitely want to have a consultant. All right, cool. All right I'm going to diverge from some of the traditional advice with my third point that I'm bringing out there. And it's not too crazy and it's pretty simple and that's get out on the conference circuit. More importantly get out on the conference circuit where brokers are going to be and you can meet them in person. And this comes back to this basic principle that this is a relationship based business. If I see you in person, if I have dinner with you you're going to be far more memorable than somebody who sends me an email once every two weeks saying “Hey do you have anything in this sector with this sort of EBIDTA?” you know what? I get a lot of those emails and I don't have a face to go with that email. It's very impersonal. If I see you at a conference and we spend a little bit of time together I get to know what you're doing. I get to know what your background is. That's way more memorable and honestly, the conference circuit is a great place to just meet all sorts of different connections that can help you. I know Stephen Spear who we've talked about from an SBA lending standpoint he's gone to a lot of these conferences. And think about this you're now dealing with people that you've met in person. Maybe an attorney, Shawn Hussein who shows up at a lot of the conferences, Stephen Spear who might end up helping you get an SBA loan. And then any of us here at Quiet Light Brokerage, you've seen all of us, you've met all of us, we've all talked, we've all joked, we've all had drinks together and everything else. It just helps pop of the mind and get to know everybody a little bit more closely. So that's just a very simple way to get some of that inside track. Joe: Let me add to that. For those folks that are spending a full time job on top of a full time job and pinching pennies to be able to buy this business, if you cannot do what Mark is suggesting which is a very very wise suggestion because there's nothing like human contact; emails doesn't work as well. This podcast is a great example. Mark had written amazing content for 10 years and then we started the podcast and we've been at it for just over a year now and people call us and they say “I feel like I know you already, I just listened before to your podcast”. We never got that kind of call when someone said “I feel like I know you already, I just read four of your articles”; very different. So if you cannot go to the conferences and get that face to face contact, Scott Voelker from The Amazing Seller gave me a great great tip about a year ago. We were talking and he said he was trying to break through to an [inaudible 00:20:25.5]. He read the guy's book, he loved it and wanted to have him … I forgot if he wanted to have him on the podcast or just have a conversation with him and straight up email wasn't working and he didn't have a friend to introduce him. So Scott turned the camera on himself clicked record and said “Hey so and so this is Scott from the Amazing Seller I just want to tell you I've read your book. I loved it and it's fantastic. I'd love to chat with you for a few minutes because I've got some things that maybe we can help you with and I've got a very large audience yada, yada, yada” 30 second video inside of an email, hit send, he had a response within about 30 minutes. If you can't go to the conferences, that's a free option. If you're uncomfortable in front of a camera, that's okay. It puts a face to it. It's one of the things that we've started doing with our listings. As many of you know that are looking at our listings we now … for the most part on most of the listings we do a 15 to 20 minute recorded interview with video and audio of the client … our client, the person that's selling the business. We don't do that to convey a lot of detailed information. We do that so that you can get a feel for who they are. If you feel like they're a good person. If you feel like they're likable. If you feel like you could trust them, feel, feel, feel. If you can't get to the conferences that little video I think … shooting email to one of us or all of us with something like that. But I tell you what don't do a template email … a template video because that's the … again the thing not to do, I want to throw it in here between, don't send a template email to every broker in the industry because we'll know it's a template. And generally, those are unpersonal … impersonal and we don't pay much attention to them. Okay, why don't I go ahead and I want to jump to a different … it's my third one I guess right not my fourth one? Third one, create a checklist of your wants. Now, this isn't necessarily a thing that you could do to get the inside track to our listings because it's all of the other things that we're talking about. But for you, it will be conveyed to us that you are preparing, that you are really diligent about your approach. I was at eCommerce Fuel a few years ago and someone that we sold a business to got up on stage and talked about his processes and his experience. And he put a checklist up on the screen and it had a checklist of all of the things that he wanted to buy in a business; all of the features the business must have. Whether it's re-locatable, whether it's got virtual assistants, whether it stores its own inventory, whether it's a software as a service business, etcetera. And then on the right hand side, he had a checklist of the business that he bought from Quiet Light and all of the boxes down beside it. And not all of them were checked off and he still bought the business. So if you've got this list and Kevin Petersen was on the podcast Mark a while back and he's got a portfolio of SaaS businesses and this is what he does. It is a checklist of things that they know what they want and then they always, always, always, always use that checklist on a listing that they were viewing and see how many of the boxes and checking. They've developed a process to score it. They've made this a job like you talked about. But doing that gets you away from the emotional approach and more to sticking with the logical approach. Because this as a buyer you're going to put your life savings on the line it can get emotional. You can get frustrated, you can know that there is a deadline … a horizon to your job, to the bonus that you've taken and it's going to run out and you're going to feel pressure to buy a business. You want to avoid the emotional decision of buying a business and buy it with logic and reason and a checklist I think is a great way to go. Mark: Did you know Joe that I tried to start a podcast before we actually started this one? Joe: No, I didn't know that. Mark: Yeah I actually did like two episodes and I had four recorded and as anyone who's trying to start a podcast knows getting started is often the most difficult thing. Because you get the first few done and you're kind of excited about it and then you realize it's difficult to keep the momentum up. It's not easier when you have somebody else on the podcast, a co-host who records 70% of the episodes like you do Joe. I did and I think the second episode … I don't know but you can still find this this somewhere back in the industrial archives of QuietLightBrokerage.com. There was a blog post and a podcast on do you have an acquisition checklist. It was the exact same thing, right? How do you process these deals quickly and how do you keep it objective. And it was … I have a checklist that you're looking for and modify that checklist and understand that it needs to be this balance between being too broad and too narrow. And that you're not necessarily going to check off all the items in the box on the checklist but are you hitting the major points enough to warrant that deep dive, that deep investigation that somebody makes. So that's one of the good tips as well. I see a thing developing in these as well right? An overarching thing that you want to have this blend of having processes in place but also somewhat of an analog approach … a non-digital approach to this as well. So Joe is talking about … you're talking about recording a video of yourself, just a personalized introduction so that we can see your face; that's very personal in human relationship and somewhat analog in that sense or going to a conference and meeting there some person or calling and having a conversation but also making sure that you have a process and you know what you're looking for as well. And I'm going to pirate I think my last point … I'm going to flip them around and that is when you see something that you like act quickly. And I'm going to put a couple of sub points on this. One, speed … when you're in this space and you're trying to buy a business and you're talking to us and maybe you set up a call and all of a sudden that business is snapped up, it goes under LOI with somebody else, you might think that person must have had an advance notice or they have some sort of an inside track. Speed is really the product of solid preparation. It's executed by people who know what they want and are putting in the time to have the processes in place to be able to evaluate these deals quickly and get back to us in a timely manner. I've dealt with buyers who are looking at an opportunity or they inquire on an opportunity, I do my follow ups with everyone that inquires and then I hear back two weeks later “Oh I haven't had a chance to look at the listing yet”. Okay, well you know what … very good chance that you're not going to get this. It's just the nature of it is that there's a lot of people looking at it and those that look at it within the first 24 hours and get back to us are typically going to be ahead of “the inside track”. So the basic lesson here is pretty simple, learn to act quickly. That doesn't mean that you have to make rash decisions. It just means that when you receive the information if you like what you see send out an email and get on the calendar right away for that conference call. The buyers who are first in line often do get some level of preference when it comes to that offer time and there's nothing [inaudible 00:27:28.1] to doing that. So act quickly is my fifth point now I'll do my fourth point last. Joe: And there you go now on Mark's point he said review it and get in line to be on a conference call with a buyer. I don't allow conference calls and we'll do most of the brokers at Quiet Light allow conference calls between a buyer and seller unless or until I have spoken to the buyer. So this goes back to reaching out and connecting with us and getting that out of the way. If we've had a conversation we're not going to have to take an extra 15 minutes to schedule that before scheduling a call with the seller of the business. Okay, I actually have a few more points I'm going to blend two into one. One is be likeable and the other is be likable and squeaky, all right? We're repeating things a little bit here but that's very important. It's because we are trying to hone in on these because they're critical and they make a huge difference. So the be likable first one is actually be likable to the seller of the business. When you get to the point of being on a conference call with the seller of the business your objective is to ask the same questions we asked. See if they answered in the same way. Get to know them a little bit. Get a feel for them. Be on the video. Be on the client interview. Determine whether or not you can trust them and move on with an offer of the business. That's the upper level objective of the call. The hidden thing, the most important thing I think is to make sure that when the call is over that seller doesn't want that call to end or that they hang up that call and think god man I really like Mark I hope he's the buyer of my business. Because if it's a great business as Mark said you've got to act fast. There are going to be lots of people that are really prepared to buy a great business and it's going to move … what feels like fast? Fast maybe three or four days all right, you get 24 hours to review the package, you ask for a conference call, you have a conference call and 24 hours later you make an offer or shortly thereafter you make an offer. We don't let things go under contract one hour after they've been listed simply because there's no way for you the buyer to fully review the package. There's no way for you to get on a conference call with the seller all within one hour. It just doesn't happen. When someone presents an offer this is one of those don'ts in between the lines don't make an offer without having gone through the process of a call with the seller within an hour. Because we know you're just trying to tie the listing up under a lot of intent and then make a decision. We want you to make a decision about a business go under letter of intent and go all the way through the closing. Okay, so be likable. Make sure as a buyer that your seller likes you on that conference call. And then the be likable and squeaky is be likable to the brokers. We're human right? I didn't sleep very well last night. I had a bad day. When you call me and you're hard on me I'm going to remember that the next time you want to buy a business. I have a particular buyer that comes to mind right now where he did just that what I said a few minutes ago. He said “I love it I want to go ahead and put in an offer.” and I said great well let's have a … he and I have already spoken before. He'd given his LinkedIn profile. He was preparing. I said “Great. Well, let's schedule a call with the seller first. When are you available?” total silence 24 or 36 hours … total silence and then the listening goes under contract three or four days later because there were multiple buyers because it was a great listing. And he sends me an email on the next listing that launches and says “I really like this one Joe can we get on a call with the seller of the business?” I said “Yes we can. What happened last time? You're ready to make an offer and then you disappeared on me.” and he emailed me back and said “Well my wife had decided that it wasn't really the business for us. There were some things that she didn't like.” to me that that's fine, that's okay. You got to do your homework first before you say I want to go under contract but it also tells me his intention was to tie it up under a lot of intent and then make a decision to buy it. And that's a big no-no because this is a very emotional process for both the buyer and the seller. So be likable to broker and respect their trusts … our time, respect our time and build that positive relationship. Okay, so that's my fourth I think. Be likable and be likable and squeaky. Mark: So yeah … and I'll just say as far as being likable to the broker, we're not asking you to sit there and give us all sorts of praise and compliments. Unless you're talking to Jason in which case that'll probably get you somewhere but when it comes to the … it's just the basic manners, right? Joe: [inaudible 00:32:02.5] by the way Jason doesn't listen to the podcast. We need to stop making fun of Jason because he doesn't even listen to it. Mark: Well, who can we make fun of at Quiet Light? Joe: Oh, let's make fun of you. Mark: Well, I'm always game but I'd say we pick on the new guy and the best-selling author Walker. Joe: You know what … yes, Walker. Right and we're not making fun of him right now I want to pay him a compliment. Before Walker came on as a broker I had a listing and we had three conference calls with three separate buyers and one of them stood out. He didn't end up buying the business but he stood out to me and I'm going man oh man that guy is awesome. I hope I can find him a business. It turned out to be Walker. And so when you like two months later had a great listing and your seller said “Look I really don't want a million calls is there anybody that comes to mind that would be a great broker, a great fit for this business, a great buyer, a great fit for this business?” Walker came to mind and I introduced you and guess who bought the business? Walker did folks. And now he's, of course, an advisor broker at Quiet Light because he's fantastic. But it's that be likable [inaudible 00:33:06.7]. Mark: Here where I was about to pick on him and just kind of tease him but I'm going to pile on with the compliments because if you guys are listening to the podcast you've heard me say in the past the story where I had a buyer after his offer was accepted told my client at the end of the … you know hey we just got under offer let's plan due diligence, took the time just to say “thank you for agreeing to sell me your business”. Well, that was Walker and the impact that I had on that deal was so significant. I mean it was again such a simple little thing that you can do and just … it wasn't disingenuous it was a genuine hey look I get it it's your asset. It's what you built and you're agreeing to sell it to me. I really appreciate that. Take the time. Be intentional. We've said that before … be intentional and think about all sides of the transaction here. Everybody hopefully benefits from this transaction so we shouldn't be sitting there and thinking man I'm giving you a lot of money you should be grateful. You should also be thinking I'm also getting a great opportunity by buying this business and being respectful of that … of the person selling their business. For the person selling their businesses especially if it's their first time, this is probably the biggest revenue event they're going to have in their lives at least to date and so it's a very personal thing for a lot of people selling their business. Take that time be respectful. I think that helps when you're in a competitive situation and you have multiple buyers. Like you said Joe we have people get off the phone and say “I really hope I get to sell my business to this person” right? Now everything else needs to line up, the offer has to be there but you can definitely help your case with that. All right last point I have is … I'll just go over it quickly because I think we've covered it pretty well but tell us what you're doing. What other businesses are you part of? What are you really good at? Are you really good at CRO? Are you really good at SEO? Are you really good at SaaS businesses? Are you really interested in getting into something different? Are you really interested in certain niches? Don't just send us a blank email on can we get these all the time and if you're listening to this and thinking these guys just want us to cater everything that we're doing to their way. That's not the case. Look work whatever way you want to work but understand we get a lot of noise that comes in through our inboxes. The whole point of this podcast episode is how do you stand out from the noise? How do you distinguish yourself from other buyers? Well here's what other buyers are doing they send us a template email telling us what they want. That's what everybody else is doing. We do look at those. We do categorize those. We have a spreadsheet that we share internally with that data but it's a spreadsheet with a hundred other names on it and growing every single day. If you want to stand out do some things in different. And one of those things is when you do talk to us or have an opportunity to have a conversation with us tell us what you're doing and don't just talk to us about what you're doing in the monologue. Let's talk about your business a little bit. Let's get into it a little bit. Share some details with us. Not because we necessarily want to know but look we're entrepreneurs we like to talk about this stuff anyways. It's always fun. I was talking to a guy the other day who is not a client, probably won't be a client of ours but a fellow entrepreneur and we just spent probably 45 minutes talking about his business. It was a fascinating conversation. I gained some things from it hopefully he gained some insight from it. And you know what that's now in my mind and if he ever does come to the point of buying or if he ever does come to the point of selling one of his businesses that's something that's always going to stick out in my mind. So how do you cut yourself out? How do you stand above the rest of the noise? Again and have a conversation and let's get into some of the things that you're doing because it's a lot easier for you to be top of mind if I know that you're like a Shakil buying just a gazillion businesses or if you're looking for that first time acquisition. I can think of a buyer right now, I've met them for coffee in person here in the Twin Cities. A husband and wife team I know that they've been looking for a long long time and I have a general sense for what they want. And I'll tell you what because I had coffee with them, because they shared a couple of opportunities that they're looking at with me I know what they're looking for pretty well and hey I'd love to find something for them. So if you're listening to this know I'm still looking for something for you and it's still on my mind. So that's my fifth point, let us know what you're doing. Tell us a little bit. Let's get into the details not just the high level details. Joe: Yeah, back to the human part. When you have coffee with them you talk to them as entrepreneur … as a broker in this industry, you get excited. I want to find them that business. I want to see them succeed. I want them to be another Quiet Light success story and five years from now come back to us and sell the business worth five times the value. Or hear that they're traveling the world while running the business and just changing their lives completely because there's something that occurred over a cup of coffee. So I think that's fantastic. All right my last and final point may sound a bit crazy but if you listen to our podcasts and you've heard Ben Carpel on the podcast … Carpel we always pronounce your name wrong Ben I'm sorry. You're awesome though we love you. If you have listened to Ben and if you have listened to one that aired in early December of '18 RJ you would have heard two pretty, sophisticated, intelligent, likable, passionate buyers say the same thing and that is be willing to overpay for a great business period. There are lots of great businesses that come out and when they do they get sold quickly [inaudible 00:38:37.3]. Mark: Hold on Joe are you just saying this because you're a broker and you get paid on commission for the deals that you're doing? Joe: No. They said it not me. I'm quoting them. And it's true I mean … look it's true we had a listing that I put up in August right? We had 10 offers on it. It was squeaky clean. It had the four pillars. It had age, growth, transferability, documentation. Everything was perfect in it. It was just fantastic. I knew it when I looked at it. We priced it right to achieve the buyers and the sellers goals. We didn't over price it because it was perfectly priced at right still and we had 10 offers. And one … actually, several buyers were willing to overpay for it. One buyer got it because of all of the things we've talked about. He was really likable. He was going to be easy to work with in due diligence. He was going to be easy in transition and training and he paid a little bit of extra. And he was okay with that because this is a great asset. We've got an email from him since then about the crazy growth that they've had in the fourth quarter. And my thought is oh I should share this with seller and then my thought is no that might put him in a little bit of a bad mood. But he achieved his goals. He wanted to get out at a certain time in a certain price and we actually overachieved that. So if two people like RJ and Ben are saying it I think there's some validity to it. Because if it's a great asset, if it's a great business and others only were willing to pay a certain amount it's great for you. It's not going to be great for everyone; that's the thing. Be willing to overpay for a great asset that's great for you. If you're into hunting and fishing and it's a hunting and fishing ecommerce business that's doing amazing things it's something you're going to be a little bit more passionate about. And in my experience when you've got some passion for something it's going to help you overcome those hurdles and those tough times that will come to you as an entrepreneur. So if it's a little bit … if you pay a little bit more for it I think you're going to get that return investment quicker than if you buy a complete fixer upper that's going to take some time. Mark: Yeah so I'm going to … based on that go back to what you said earlier about people who email you and say “you're way overpriced like there's just no way that this is priced right. It's overpriced by a ton”. Valuations are relative. That is just the reality of it. In that survey that we put out we had people give us feedback that said I love you guys but I think that your listings recently are getting overpriced. And then I had other feedback come back that said we love you guys but the perception is that you kind of underprice your properties. So we have these two conflicting things where we have some people saying hey you're overpriced and other people saying no you're underpriced. Look when it comes down to it the price of these assets varies based on the economy at the time but also probably, more importantly, they're based on the individual ROI that you can get. And what you can get from a particular business is going to be different from what somebody else can get from a business based on your specific skill sets. And so if you find something that's a good match it comes down to return on investment. What can you do with this business? If you can make that thing work be willing to pay more than what the average person in the marketplace is willing to pay. You're still going to get a good deal. But with the competitive nature of thinking am I going to overpay for this you know crush your ability to get a deal done because somebody else will pay a little bit more. When we price a business one of the big mistakes I think happens in our industry is that people price a business for the marketplace average. That's a mistake as a broker. And for those that are on the buying side here, I'm sorry about this next point but it's just the case, we work for the seller. I'm not looking for the marketplace of buyers. I'm looking for a buyer within the marketplace which means I want to aim towards the top end of that average range or the marketplace range so that I can find that buyer. Be that buyer at the top of the range for the business that matches for you. Otherwise, you're going to be competing against the full marketplace of buyers. I don't know if that makes any sense or not but again the idea of finding that opportunity for you and standing out and making sure that when you find it move on it. Joe: Absolutely I'll just wrap up my side of it with the fact that we're all entrepreneurs as Mark said. And we love what we do. It's crazy but a lot of what we're doing is simply helping people. We're giving up our time and we're getting something in return for it. We are making a living but we love it and it's exciting to work with great buyers, great sellers who are achieving their financial and personal goals. It's a lot of fun and we want to help each and every one that comes through our email or over the phone or text or whatever it might be. Help you achieve your goals whether you're a buyer or a seller. And all of these things that we've talked about we've talked about it through direct experience. We built and bought and sold our own online businesses and now we get to see what thousands of people do both on the buy and sell side. And so it does come from experience. It comes from the school of hard knocks more than anything else. We've learned a lot of things that people shouldn't do and a lot more things that people do right that stand out in these five things that we've each talked about or all these things. Mark: Right. So, Joe, you know what I'm going to do right now? Joe: I have no idea. Mark: I'm going to end this podcast episode because I have an appointment with somebody who wants to buy a business and wants to spend some time talking on the phone with me. Good for this guy. He's doing the right thing. Guys if you're listening to this and you have ideas for an episode like this where you have a question … again that survey [inaudible 00:44:06.9] some great feedback from everybody. If you took it thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'm serious- [crosstalk 00:44:12.5]. Mark: Answer a question that we're trying to tackle in your quest for your first acquisition or your tenth acquisition. Yeah, send us an email … send me an email at mark@quietlightbrokerage or joe@quietlightbrokerage.com. We'll either find an expert to bring on the show to talk about it or Joe and I will jump on it on a show like this. And we'll cover the topic as best as we can. Joe: Perfect. Go and hunt that buyer. Mark: All right, sounds good.     Links and Resources: https://www.quietlightbrokerage.com/  

Subscribe to Social Business Engine Apple Podcasts |Stitcher |Google Play | Google Podcasts LinkedIn post effectiveness is somewhat of a mystery. As Bernie’s guest, Scott Ayres says, “LinkedIn is like the Uncle who always comes to the family reunion with a great casserole, but you forget is there.” So Scott and his team at Agorapulse decided to do a social media experiment to see exactly what post types are effective on LinkedIn. Scott is a Content Scientist for Agorapulse - he runs experiments as part of the company’s Social Media Lab. During this conversation with Bernie you’ll hear how he runs experiments using different content on the various social media platforms, verifies it through the expertise of an actual data scientist, and publishes the results. Scott’s findings from a recent experiment about LinkedIn posts is the special topic of interest for this episode. Sales Professionals Need Social Best-Practices Based on Data, Not Anecdotes Any Google search for “How to post effectively on LinkedIn” or “LinkedIn best-practices” will provide hundreds of results, but how do you know which of the posts returned are actually trustworthy? The leadership at Agorapulse, a social media scheduling tool, has dedicated a significant portion of its monthly budget to run data-driven social media experiments through what they call “The Social Media Lab.” Scott Ayres leads that team in carrying out all kinds of tests and trials based on this pattern: Problem -> hypothesis -> research -> findings With the help of an actual data scientist who is on staff at Agorapulse, the team is uncovering best-practices and publishing them publicly for anyone to learn from. Our team here at Vengreso is very keen on LinkedIn, so Bernie asked Scott to elaborate on the findings from a recent SML experiment about the kind of LinkedIn posts that perform best. You will find the results surprising. Text-Only Posts on LinkedIn Are Viewed Massively More Than Others One of the principles you hear touted about using social media effectively is that it’s a visual medium - so posts that include images, gifs, videos, etc. are more effective. Scott Ayres wanted to test that hypothesis, especially as it has to do with LinkedIn. His team at the Social Media Lab used three accounts with large followings to test the following hypothesis - Text-only posts would garner the lowest amount of views. The team posted a variety of content types over a specified period of time, and tracked the engagement for each. What were the results? In Scott’s words, “Text-only posts on LinkedIn had an increase of 1,069% views.” That’s the type of data that helps those of us in sales and marketing understand how to garner better engagement for the sake of establishing relationships and uncovering needs. Listen to this podcast to hear more about how posting on LinkedIn create more sales conversations. How Effective Are Hashtags on LinkedIn? It hasn’t been around for long, but LinkedIn now supports the use of hashtags. It’s easy to forget that the functionality even exists on LinkedIn but those who are utilizing hashtags are seeing great results - and the data Scott and his team have been able to compile from their experiments prove it’s not just anecdotal. The Social Media Lab experiment about LinkedIn hashtags shows that posts using at least one hashtag get 29.59% higher impressions. Based on those findings, Bernie and Scott discuss the ways hashtags can be used to coordinate sharing efforts by a sales or marketing team, how searches can be made using hashtags. If you’re interested in increasing your activity on LinkedIn and think hashtags could help you do that, listen to this episode to get Scott and Bernie’s advice on the issue. Featured on This Episode The Social Media Lab Podcast Agorapulse website Scott Ayres on Facebook Scott on LinkedIn Scott on Twitter Outline of This Episode [0:43] The fun job Scott Ayers gets to do for Agorapulse [2:55] What is Agorapulse? - An amazing social media tool and a social media lab [6:53] The criteria behind choosing social media experiments to run [10:12] LinkedIn Post types: Is LinkedIn like the other sites? [13:13] The hypothesis behind the text-only post advantage [18:23] The new hashtag experiment Agorapulse has run recently Resources & People Mentioned LinkedIn experiment discussed on this episode: https://www.agorapulse.com/social/linkedin Melonie Dadaro’s book: The LinkedIn Code Measure your LinkedIn Social Selling Index Viveka von Rosen Hashtag examples: #VengresoVids #VengresoPics www.DigitalSellingBenchmarkReport.com The Selling With Social Podcast with Vengreso CEO, Mario Martinez, Jr Connect With Bernie and Social Business Engine https://www.facebook.com/socialbusinessengine/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernieborges/ https://twitter.com/bernieborges https://twitter.com/sbengine Subscribe to Social Business Engine Apple Podcasts |Stitcher |Google Play | Google Podcasts There are TWO WAYS you can listen to this podcast. You can click the PLAYER BUTTON at the top of this page… or, you can listen from your mobile device’s podcast player through the podcast subscription links above. This podcast originally appeared on Social Business Engine  

There's something to learn by listening to any individual's success story, but when the story starts with being kicked out of high school at 15, one can get pulled especially quickly into hearing how it panned out. I found myself at the edge of my seat while sitting across from Pivotal Coaching Co-Founder Scott Hopson for the latest #WeGotGoals podcast episode interview because that was exactly how his story started. If you're in the training industry, maybe you've attended continuing education sessions through NASM, EXOS, The Gray Institute, or Power Plate International; if so, you've probably studied Hopson's material or done a workshop with him. He also helped launch Midtown Athletic Club, Chicago's first urban sports resort with 575,000 square feet of health and wellness amenities. And, as the co-founder of PTA Global, he's coached countless personal trainers in a unique approach focused on behavioral science. Essentially, Hopson has worked his entire professional life on becoming the best version of himself as a personal trainer, but he's also dedicated his life to the fitness industry from a practical coaching, educational, and business perspective. And with the prestigious laundry list of titles he possesses, you can imagine why I found it unbelievable that it all started with being kicked out of school. But, as Hopson told me during the interview, when he decided he wanted to turn his life around, he started at the source where he felt like he was always home, the one place where he felt "in flow" amidst it all - with his coaches when he was playing sports. He held onto the memory of being coached and let that passion drive him forward. Now, helping others achieve their movement goals makes him feel alive, and he's equally passionate about training other coaches to bring out their fullest potential and thus, inspire clients to become the best version of themselves too. The most interesting thing about our interview, though, had nothing to do with fitness and everything to do with the human behind the science of coaching. In order to go after the "what" (whether that's a specific fitness goal or any other transformational goal in your life), "you have to articulate the 'why,'" Hopson said. Ultimately, understanding that it's not about him as a coach at all when he's in a coaching session has helped him understand how to navigate every other kind of partnership and communication in his life. "If I'm going to coach you, I've got to create an environment for you to train yourself, because I can't do it," Hopson said. "That'd be quite arrogant and ignorant of me to believe I can. If I create an environment for you to change yourself, that affects how I communicate to you, how I listen, do I have empathy? And I apply that to my business relationships. Am I listening? Am I willing to consider the possibility that they don't only have a point of view, but they might actually change mine?" Hopson also mentioned that he leans into his intuition to help guide his unique, nonlinear career path and what big goals he goes after. "I'm at my happiest, and in flow, where nothing else matters than that present moment, when I'm being of service to someone as a coach," he said. I commented on how lucky he was to know that feeling - a feeling of just being in total flow. He replied that we all have it, in some way, shape or form. We just have to notice and be open to tapping into it. "It doesn’t happen every day, [but] there are things you can do to connect you back to it if you lose it – whether it’s prayer or meditation, or whatever it is that connects you to that thing," Hopson said. Listen to Scott Hopson's episode of the #WeGotGoals podcast to hear one success story you likely won't ever forget. You can listen anywhere you get your podcasts (did we mention, we're on Spotify now?) If you like what you hear, please leave us a rating or a review! We'd really appreciate it. And stick around until the end of the episode, where you’ll hear a goal from one of you, our listeners. (Want to be featured on a future episode? Send a voice memo with a goal you’ve crushed, a goal you’re eyeing, or your best goal-getting tip to cindy@asweatlife.com.)   --- Transcript: Jeana: Welcome to #WeGotGoals a podcast by aSweatLife.com on which we talk to high-achievers about their goals. I’m Jeana Anderson Cohen. With me I have Maggie Umberger and Cindy Kuzma. Maggie: Morning Jeana! Cindy: Good morning Jeana! Jeana: Morning! Maggie, you talked to Scott Hobson this week, right? Maggie: I did! I spoke with Scott Hobson and he has a lot of roles which I will try to give you in the upfront here but he will do a better job of talking about the many companies that he has started. And from his career trajectory, he’s been a personal trainer, he has coached coaches. He still loves to coach people on how to help other people achieve their goals. He is the founder, co-founder of PTA Global as well as Pivotal Coaching. But essentially what he does, is he helps people move better.  Whether that is individuals or people within big gyms or at really large conferences and for fitness professionals across the world. He’s been to 40 countries to teach. He’s also an author, a writer, and a speaker. And I was so lucky to get to speak to him about his goals of which he has many. Jeana: But he also failed big once, right Maggie? Maggie: I didn’t realize this. I didn’t know this until we were talking for this interview, but he was kicked out of high school. And he kind of tossed it out there and I was honestly shocked because he has done so many things. He is the co-founder of Pivotal coaching which is a world-wide coaching business now. And I was honestly surprised because he is so accomplished. He’s so well spoken, he’s so driven. But I learned that he did get kicked out of high school and it took something for him to realize that in order for him to turn his life around he needed to find the thing that made him feel like he was in flow, is what he calls it. And when he feels like he’s in flow, he knows he’s doing the right thing and the only thing that he felt that kind of sensibility around was when with his rugby team and when he was being coached by his coaches. He felt like he was at home and he wanted to do that more. He wanted to do that in any capacity he could, so he became a personal trainer. He kept going back to school, he kept learning more and his fervor for learning more about human movement and just how people behave around fitness. It’s a much broader topic for him then just like what happens in a coaching session. And he’s really turned that enthusiasm, is what he calls it. This spirit for understanding how people move into his life-long career. Which is huge leaps and bounds away from getting kicked out of high school years ago. Jeana: And he feels like it’s important to coach the humans who are doing the movement and not actually coach the movement. Which is an interesting semantic issue, it’s an interesting word choice. What does he mean by that and how does that fit into his overall philosophy? Maggie: So Scott has the wherewithal to know that what happens in the gym is only a tiny part of your day. And he knows that as long as you just throw anatomical cues at people it’s going to go over their head. They have to find their why. And so he’s become really, really passionate about helping other coaches learn how to speak to people to meet them where they are and to really influence and inspire change for people on a greater level than just going through the motions of a program, of going through the workout. We say this all the time at aSweatLife that fitness can be the catalyst to you living your best life and that what happens in the gym can absolutely affect you life outside of the gym if you let it. If you want it to and he has started to focus a lot of the training and the protocols within Pivotal Coaching around human behavior and how can what coaches do in your training sessions influence how that training session goes. It's so much more of an emotional thing than just a physical thing which is interestingly a large part of the conversation that we had was just about how connected to his own emotional well-being he is. Like when he’s not in flow as I was saying, he knows it and he needs to make a change. And that's what happened when he was director of a really large facility that he's still incredibly involved with and he loves it very much. But when he was doing a role that he could do but he felt a little bit more stressed by being in it. It was apparent to him that he needed to make a change and he could be a better asset in a different capacity. So that when he could actually get back to working with people, for people and helping. Really his passion is working with coaches then he could really feel, do better work, help people on a greater scale. And so that's been his guiding force, like getting within the process, finding the joy, finding the payoff in the process is what he says. Not just that the end goal or whatever the thing he's trying to accomplish gets checked off the list. It's about feeling the way he needs to feel all along the way. Jeana: What an incredible story of overcoming obstacles and finding your true path I can't wait to hear Maggie talk to Scott. And stick around at the end of the episode we’re hearing from you listeners. Maggie: Thanks so much for joining me Scott, on the We’ve Got Goals Podcast. Scott: I'm excited. Maggie: We're excited to have you! So Scott for the listeners at home I know that you do a lot of jobs and that they probably sometimes they overlap, sometimes they’re different. You're a one-on-one coach, your a group coach, you have managed big facilities, you also coached on a global scale and your a founder of a couple companies. For the listeners can you give a little brief description of, I know you said what you do on a daily basis is different, but how you spend your days and what your general title is? Scott: Yeah, it’s wonderful. Well I mean the single biggest thing right now is I’m a co-founder of Pivotal. We’re a development company. And our mission is really simple it's to empower people to fulfill their potential. And our clientele if you will is anyone that has a passion for movement. So what I do on a daily basis could be considered coaching - one-on-one, groups, and teams from everyday people at health clubs to Olympic-level teams I work with all of them. But my real passion is teaching and you could say I coach the coaches. So what I travel the world doing, I think I've been to about 40 different countries by now, I coach coaches on how to be a better coach. We can talk later about what that includes maybe. But I also consult.  Having been an operator for 20 years building health clubs, big beautiful sports resorts around the world. I know what it takes to actually build facilities, operate facilities, manage people, sales marketing, membership and on it goes. But ultimately I think it all comes down to coaching. I’m in the people industry and my job is to build meaningful relationships and I think that’s what coaches do. I don’t know if that makes sense, but that’s kind of what on any given day one of those is what I’m doing or all of those is what I’m doing. Maggie: That’s fascinating.  Not only the breadth of what you do but the depth to which you do it. So like you're talking about working on the business side of the athletic club and building out a club. And then also building out an amazing coaching staff and helping people become better coaches. And then helping individuals also reach their fitness goals. It just runs the gamut. Scott: Yeah, it does. Maggie: Did you start as a personal trainer yeah in terms of profession? Scott: Yeah, in terms of profession that's the first real professional job I had. But I've been in the movement industry my whole life the only thing that's really kept me sane through life's adventures that don't all start out the way you want them to. But that one kind of bedrock of always connecting to why I'm here has been either playing sport, coaching sport, moving, coaching people, something to do with this idea of I'm here to move and I'm here to help people move. Not just physically but towards their dreams in life, you know? So 1998 is when I became a personal trainer and fitness instructor in the UK, in London. But immediately, the minute I was in the industry I knew this was only part of what I was going to do here. And that's when I went back to school to become a physical education teacher. Which is the problem when you get kicked out of high school at 15. Maggie: Wait a minute, should we go back and ask about that? Scott: There would need to be some whiskey in the room.  Yeah you're talking to a guy that didn't even graduate high school at 15. I left and then when I realized “oh, I probably should have stuck around” I was 24, 25 and I decided I wanted to go back and become a coach and a physical education teacher. So the problem is that you've got to graduate high school first. So believe it or not I was a 25 year old in school with a bunch of teenagers. Maggie: Wow! Scott: Yeah, that’s where it started for me. Actually, I answer it that way because that’s where it started, was the realization that I needed to do something different with my life. And I found out pretty quickly it was in this area of movement and coaching. That was my only real love in life, was playing sport and being coached.  So how do I do that, Okay I'll go to university. Okay, how do you do that, you’ve got to graduate high school. Problem, big problem. So I had to go back in order to go forwards and then it's been an unbelievable journey since then just exploring all the possibilities in this industry, you know? And there's multiple Industries- it's not just fitness, it's not just performance, it’s wellness, it's all of it really. You know? Maggie: Oh, yeah. And it’s a huge world. And it can feel, it seems like you have this outlook that is just wide-eyed and excited versus daunted. You know, because you talk about there being so many facets to movement, and to health and wellness. That I can get intimidated by where do I spend my time? Scott: Where do I begin? Maggie: What to learn. Oh my god, there is so much to learn. Scott: There is. Maggie: But, based on what I’ve seen and how you have grown your career. You’ve just gone after the things you wanted to go after. And created your career based on what excites you. Scott: That’s probably quite accurate actually. For me we’ve also got passion. But I’ve kind of shifted. I think passion is a good thing. If you aint got it, it’s too darn hard to do anything. You know? Maggie: Yeah. Scott: But for me it’s become more enthusiasm. And it sounds like semantics but that word. When you’re enthusiastic about something. Like it literally means to be in spirit, right? It means to be, the payoff is in the process. I think you've got to passionately follow where the payoff is in the process. Whatever that is in your life. Like that burning desire to do something just because the act of doing it is the payoff. And that really sums up my career. Every few years there seems to be another door opens or something says no, you should take a left here. When my best laid plans said to take a right but something says in me says no, you’re supposed to follow that. It leads to failure, a ton actually but if your enthusiastic. The saying about enthusiasm, it's the ability to keep falling on your face and not care anyway. That’s a big part of enthusiasm. Maggie: Well, I think that kind of transitions to the question that we ask on #WeGotGoals, which is what's one big goal that you're proud to say you've accomplished and how did you get there? Scott: Wow, that's I knew you were going to ask it and it's surprisingly difficult to answer, right because you don't want to sound trite or have too much levity. But the reality is there's two things that all stand out. One is, one of the company’s that I'm a founder of is PTA Global, Personal Training Academy Global, we launched that out of nothing. We literally traveled the world.  Me and my five brothers who created it. Not biological brothers and we asked every health club we had worked with in 40 different countries. What are your problems? What are your pains? And we built personal training certification to answer their problems. Not just based on whatever we thought was the best way to train. We actually tried to build something on what people needed rather than what we thought. Then we went out and recruited 26 of the best educators in our industry. Many of whom we were told they won’t even be in the same room as each other. They had conflicting opinions, philosophies, they argue. We got them all in the same room to write PTA Global. All of them in the same room and we launched it in 2009 which was the worst economic time. Little did we know what was coming.  And now we're 35, 40 countries, you know? And it all just came from sharing a common purpose, you know what I mean? That drive, that desire to do something. So that stands out professionally as the best thing I've done in my career so far. Is to truly just go all in, we all quit our jobs with salaries and put all our chips in. And said it's this or nothing. Just once we have to try and do the right thing, rather than to do things right and it cost us everything we had. If we didn't sell, we didn't eat. If it wasn't successful, it was on us there was no one to blame, no corporate structure or nothing. It was incredible! I'll tell you that's the biggest achievement in my career other than being in it in the first place. Because it wasn't easy for me to be in it in the first place you know I talked about getting kicked out of school and I had to go back to college. I was the first person in my entire family history that has ever done anything outside of high school. And I think just having to pay for your own way you know what I mean despite life willingness to say you can't do it. Maggie: Where did you learn that? Where do you think that drive comes from? That just openness to enthusiasm and willingness to lean into it. Scott: Truthfully, I think for me it was just not failing a lot, but really discovering who I was in the first. I think some people it's wonderful they seem to have the playbook, they come with it. They can be like oh this is what it's like to be a good person. Or this is what it's like to follow your dreams. But that wasn't my experience. My experience was a lot of failure and a lot of pain and alot of looking at who I was at first. And then finally when you hit it enough bumps you say holy crap I’ve got to change something. The second part is you can’t do it alone. I've been very blessed to have people that showed up right on time. When I needed help so I think surrounding yourself with the people that you hope to become you know what I mean. I mean truly looking at people, I don't know what it is that you have but I want that. Whether it's their spiritual fitness, their ability to be kind, their ability to be successful in business. Like you clearly have something I don't, where I lack or and I'm unable to see. I should probably surround myself with people like you and try to learn it, you know? And it's really those two ingredients and that burning desire. For me to pick up a book and study coaching and movement or isn't a drudge, it's a joy. You know what I mean? When I'm bored it's the first thing I want to do. Wow I’d love to learn more about [...] or how did that Olympic coach win it for the fourth year in a row. Whatever. I'm fascinated with not just human movement but with the human being inside it. So I think when you're fascinated, I think that curiosity, that’s the word. Maggie: Yeah. Scott: You’ve got to have a relentless curiosity for whatever you’re passionate about. You know? Maggie: Yeah, absolutely! Did PTA Global come about, you said you visited countries you visited the big clubs that you worked with and answered some of their problems or their needs. Was it also an equal part you finding those extra elements that you were excited about. Like what's inside a human being and how can we help them feel their best while they're working out. Those little nuances, did that kind of come together as the marriage. Is that what PTA Global is? Scott: 100%, yes. if you're going to solve a problem, you’ve got to first know what that problem is. And the key to getting clarity is to ask better questions. If you keep asking the same questions, it doesn’t matter about how many ways you phrase it. So part of the fascination was what are the real problems of our industry. We’ve got 300 times more education than we’ve ever had, we’ve got more gyms and health clubs than we’ve ever had and we’ve got more billions of dollars invested in health and wellness than we’ve ever had. Yet we’ve got less human beings moving than anytime in human history. We’ve got more disease, disability and dysfunction than anytime in human history. And believe it or not we have the first generation of youth with a lower life expectancy than their parents.  If that don't make you wake up like our kids are scheduled to die younger than we are. It’s supposed to be the opposite. We're keeping old people live longer and sicker and younger people are dying sooner with more sickness. So part of it was that we've got to solve this problem. But the other part wow I've got to go find something that maybe isn't there or I've got to find the missing link. There’s that journey of discovery, right? The merging of that and the guys and girls we did it with are geniuses in their respective fields. Nutrition, behavioral change, movement, anatomy, whatever it is. So to actually go to each of these leaders and get their take on how it answer that. It was, you don't get many opportunities in life to do that to. Say here are the problems let's go speak to the world's best and find out how they might solve it. And then bring it back to the people who asked for it. That really was the journey. Maggie: So for the listeners at home what does PTA Global do or what does that certification earn you? Scott: A couple of things. One, if you woke up today as a fitness enthusiast and said man I would love to become a  professional coach, a personal trainer or a fitness professional, you have to get legally certified. Now you can do it the right way or the wrong way. The wrong way is you could go online trough some swipe your finger, take an exam, call yourself professional. Or you can go study, whether it’s 6, 9, 12 month program. Some of them are two years, actually study the human body anatomy, kinesiology, program design, behavior.  Then you have to sit for an actual exam and there's a practical in a room. One of those companies is PTA Global, we created a brand new approach to becoming a globally certified fitness professional. So if you take our course whether you're in Dubai, London, Amsterdam. You are legally certified anywhere in the world to practice in this profession. So that's kind of a big deal. It very much a behavioral change approach, we say when you find the why, you find the what. Everyone’s got a what, weight loss, weight gain, whatever it is. Until I find the why, the chances are we aren’t going to get you there. So that's how our philosophy is meeting people where they need to be met. And then we have advanced curriculums. One of them is called Exercise and Stress Management. We are nothing but a bunch of cells that get stressed on a daily basis. And how I move today is as much to do with my nutrition, my sleep, my emotions as much as it is my posture and flexibility, you know? So we can go on a very deep journey with you. And that then that leaves into Pivotal, my company now, which is that my passion is to travel the world and connect those dots. With the operators, with the product manufacturers, with the educators, with the certification bodies. We work with all them to bring people together to connect dots. So we travel the world, me and Haley, creating partnerships between global leaders. Delivering education for these people, creating education for them. One of our biggest passions is to teach the teachers. When you're in a room of a hundred coaches you’re really touching hundreds of thousands of people, right? Maggie: Sure. Scott: But when you’re in a room of 50 teachers your reaching exponentially more. So that’s what Pivotal does. We’ve kind of gone even bigger, how do we touch the most people to empower and fulfill their potential. Whether it is the club operator, whether it is the coach, whether it is the educator. And that was really the birth of Pivotal. Was to take everything I learned at PTA Global and kind of go one layer deeper. Which is really connecting people. I can’t think of one single movement in human history that hasn’t come from those first followers finding their fanatical fans and on and on it goes. So that’s kind of our gig now. Maggie: Yeah. So this conversation that is generally focused on goals. Is interesting to me I think to ask this question about how you’ve worked with people in the fitness world, in the fitness realm about how to tap into their why by them articulating their what. And then going through the behavior change process to get them to meet their goals. And how has that potentially shaped the way you view goals? Scott: Utterly, completely. You know one of my most important values to me is authenticity. Sometimes I feel like saying no experience, no opinion, you know? How can you coach someone one-on-one personal training or in small group or large group and hope to not only inspire but guide them to transformation. Because really everyone is looking for a transformation. No one wants to be what they are. You want to be more than they are. You want to be the best version of yourself you can. So if I want to coach you my job really is to create an environment for you to change yourself because I can’t do it. It’d be quite arrogant and ignorant for me to think I can.  So behavioral change, this whole view point is if I create an environment for you to change yourself that affects how I communicate to you, how I listen, do I have empathy can I be a GPS because you're coming today and you're stressed because you’ve had 15 coffees, you didn't eat, didn't sleep, you busted up with your partner. Okay that changed our program like instantly. How do I create on demand based on your behavior. So what that does authentically as coach for me. Man am I applying that to myself? Am I applying that to my business relationships? Am I listening when I’m speaking to my partners? Am I willing to consider maybe the possibility that they don’t really have a point of view but it might actually change mine. That’s empathetic listening. I'm going to listen at a level where I actually might realize that I'm wrong. Do you know how hard that is as a personal trainer because we always think we're right. Don’t eat this, do eat that. Stop doing that, go to bed on time.,   Okay, you just told them to change their whole life and you're there for maybe 3 hours a week out of the 168. So you're like 2% of their life but you've asked them to change a hundred percent of their life. That seems a bit drastic and you're not there to pick up the pieces because there's going to be a lot of falling pieces. When you ask someone to change everything. What if their partner doesn't like that? What if it means now, when everyone else is eating fried chicken. They’re saying “ugh, couldn’t we have grilled it?”. But no one else in the family likes grilled. And on it goes. So it's affected everything I do because it makes me stop and go am I applying that same principle to my life? And is what I'm asking them to maybe consider doing, have I consider the choices in my life today or this week? Am I making the right choices for myself? That's authentic. So when someone says I come in today Scott. No I didn't fix my nutrition plan, I didn't work out three times this week, empathy would say man I know how that feels. There’s no judgment. It’s just like I know how that feels. Now ask more questions. What would your block? What was your break? What do you want to do about it? That's shifted how I am in my relationships and life for the most part this aint about me, right? I wish it was. Then my script would work. Maggie: Well it's interesting because the world of fitness has like you said kind of blown up. And everyone has a place in it in a really cool way. Brands are part of it. Different kinds of fitness have become hybrids and people aren’t just one thing were multiple things. And I think that's an awesome thing that health and wellness has become a little bit more top of mind. But I also think that creates a lot more ego about who is right and who is wrong so the idea of taking it back, maybe I’m wrong is probably very slim to none in the health and wellness world. Scott: One of my favorite quotes I heard was in 2004, it was at a conference I was speaking at called Meeting of the Minds. And it was like TED talks back in the day every presenter got 20 minutes and they were leaders and what they did. It was incredible I got to ask to present, I was the new kid on the block. I heard this guy say, “I’m pretty sure standing here today, after 30 years as a world-class Olympic coach”, which he was and educator. “He said 50% of what I’m about to tell you is complete BS.” So everyone laughs. And he goes, “The real problem is I’m not sure anymore which 50%.” And it really struck me. That’s probably the wisest thing anyone in this room is going to say all day. There is what I think is right and there is what I know, I don’t know. Then there is what I don’t know, I don’t know. And in every area of research in every industry, every few years there’s like wow that changes what we think about technology or medicine. And yet our industry for the most part still wants to practice fitness the way we did 30 years ago. Even though what we’ve learned about the body and the mind is dramatically more evolved. So you go into these operators and you see them building clubs the same way they did 30 years ago. If medicine followed that it would be a problem, right? And so to your point, I think fitness itself needs to be dramatically redefined. Because fitness just means your fit to perform the task that you were here to perform. So what is that? Your a mum wants to pick up her kids is different from someone who wants to look better naked that’s different from someone. It’s just you know? So the industry itself could really do with redefining a little bit of its purpose I think. Because we are more wellness, we are more healthful. We should be. I think fitness itself is what could with a little bit of a tweak. Maggie: Yeah, yeah. So moving forward, as you look down the line. Whether it's tomorrow kind of goal or 10 years down the line. What is a big goal you hope to accomplish? Scott:  I've got too many, I think. Maggie: That's okay. Scott: I think for me, I would love, love for us to get rid of names like personal trainer and instructor. And I’d love for us to get rid of the definitions of I’m a yogi, I’m a pilates, or I’m a [...]. We’re coaches, I know I keep saying it. We’re coaches and what’s fascinating about the word is it comes from the 14th century. Like the stagecoach, it was a vehicle of transportation that carries people from where they are to where they’re going. So I always like to say you can be a personal trainer, you can be an instructor but what people are looking for is to go from where they are to where they want to be. From who they are to who they want to become. When you’re a coach you’re this vehicle of transportation, you know? And you remember your coaches, the good and the bad. I think we’re bigger than just trainers and instructors. But what I would love to see, is if we could all come together to say this is what we agree on this is how we coach the human being inside the human body. These are our ingredients for human movement. The thing about ingredients are you can create infinite different recipes. But we’ve got to agree on the ingredients, surely.  A world class chef can cook all different kinds of cuisines. But they know the food, they know the ingredients, they know their basics. And I don’t think we have that. So if I go to physical therapy [...], there’s not a lot of respect for the fitness professional world or the professional training world. There’s not a lot of respect for the group exercise instructor. You go into mind body and there is a complete dissonance between what you’re do in a yoga studio versus what you do in a swimming pool. Movement is movement. Coaching is coaching. And human beings are human beings, man. I would love for us to just have a commonality around those basic ingredients. I really would and that’s kind of what my journey now of Pivotal is about. Is because I can be in a room with physical therapists looking at movement assessments, joint mechanics, knee pain, back pain. The next day I’m at a conference with 300 people going through small group training. And [..] understand is I’ve actually given them the same ingredients, just a different recipe. It absolutely blows my mind sometimes. People go, “Oh yeah, you do the rehab stuff and you do the small group.” I’m like I do movement and coaching. Maggie: Yeah, and from the consumer side of it. Like, it can be taxing to go to so many professionals. Not only for your own dollar that you’re just doling out to hear the latest and greatest from this party and then you hear a contradictory thing from another person. Then you’re like where do I spend my money? But it’s also like how do I get better from this injury? Or how do I actually perform better in this goal that I’m trying to reach fitness-wise? That can be really hard on the just fitness enthusiast. Scott: Go back even more right. The person who’s not enthusiastic about it Maggie: Right. Scott: So your mom and dad passed away when they were say 55. You’re 53, 54. You’re one year away from the exact age where you might have lost your parents. Your sedentary, you're overweight, you're in pain, you don't move. It's not lack of information or lack of education. You need to move, everyone knows. Exercise is probably gonna do. Going to  bed on time is probably a good idea. You pick up a cigarette packet it's got a picture of death on it with a cross. It's kind of very ignorant of us to think people need more education they don't they don't. They don’t need education. But they haven't found a meaningful and relevant reason to do it that outweighs the reasons not to do it. And so I would suggest that what we need to do as a movement and industry is get back to coaching human beings. Because when you find the what you find the why.  But, we just got back from China, here’s my example. And it blows my mind. It's one of the hottest places to go and travel. I don't speak Mandarin. Very very to no English. Not that there has to be but it makes it hard to even get a cup of coffee let alone eat or move around. And loads of smoking. Loads of pollution. Crazy packed busy. But everywhere you go is movement. I’m not lying, there’s eighty, ninety year old people riding bikes in the middle of a busy cross-section. Music’s playing, you turn around someone’s just doing [...]. You walk to the nearest park, hundreds of old people dancing, doing pull-ups and then they drop, no lie. Light up a cigarette and get back on their bike. No obesity, I don’t see the diabetes. I see people moving in ways that make them feel good. It’s nearly always in a community. They’re not doing it alone. Maggie: Right. Scott: Do you know what I mean? I think we really need to look at that part of it. Is how do people want to move? What's their style of moment? What's emotionally attaching to them? Not just physically but emotionally attaching. And so we put people in boxes and there’s good to that. Chances are they've already had a bad experience most people have exercised their life. Most people have failed at it.  It goes all the way back to that crappy gym teacher who told you we're good enough. There’s a lot of emotional triggers going on as soon as they walk through the door. And they're met by trainers that often are wearing shirts that are 3 sizes too small. It’s not the most enticing model of movement. And I think we can shift it. It wouldn’t take too much. The shift come from the neck up. Not the neck down. So I hope, my biggest goal coming is that Pivotal really, we just would like to leave the world a little bit better than we found it. And so if we could get more people moving more often that’s a win. But more importantly, in ways where the payoff is in the process. They move because it feels good. They move because emotionally connects them. Not, “Oh, I have to do it.”  I've got to do it. Or I’m doing it just for an outcome - weight loss or whatever it is. We know that doesn't work, it never has worked. If it does is short-term. I move because I love to move. Some days I swing a tennis racket, some days it’s playing rugby, some days it’s lifting weights. I move because I just love to move. I think everyone is wired to move, we just haven’t worked out how they want to move. Maggie: So, if we were to imagine that I were coming in for a first time coaching session with you, And it probably begins a little bit more about the conversation and what's happening neck up versus alright let’s do this functional screening and figure out where your compensations are. What would be some of the questions that you’d ask me as the client to tap into something. Scott: Wow, wow, wow. Maggie: A reason for moving. Scott: I love what you said because let’s call that the client intake consultation, whatever it is. There is a movement screening involved. There is a nutritional screening involved. But it starts with a motivational interview. And so one of the first questions we’ll ask. Repeat the questions you feel comfortable with. Because if I create emotional insecurity right out the gate, I’m already a threat to you. So the first questions can’t be too deep or you’re immediately thinking I don’t know if I like you or trust you, why on earth would I tell you that. So we even teach, not just the kind of questions but the sequencing, the language, all of it. But one of the first things would be what is the single most important goal you would like to achieve in your time with me. Okay, there’s a couple of big words in there. Not all your goals, the single most important in your time with me. Another big question right out of the gate is what are your expectations of me in the next 60 minutes. Because I need you to know right out the gate that I am here for you, it’s all about you. But I’m accountable, right? If I go to the doctor and they misdiagnosis me or prescribe me to wrong medicine, I’m holding them accountable.  What are your expectations of me. If I got type A directed, I like just tell them what to do and just make sure I know why we’re doing it and kick my butt. Okay. You’re not a high-five kind of guy. You just told me a lot of information on how to coach you. But someone else might say, I have no idea where to start. So giving you an entire game plan in 60 minutes is overwhelming, confusing and the opposite of what you asked for. The only thing I need to give you is the one next thing, then you do it and you’re going to feel like a success. Another question we might ask would be we get further into the questionnaire and we say 1 through 10, 10 is most important, 1 is least important. How important is it that you are successful moving toward your goal? We don’t judge it. If I say a 5 out of 10, that’s wonderful. Why is it not a 2? We don’t go to how can I make it a 10? Why is it not a 2? Because you’re already thinking that. Oh, it wasn’t a 2 so I’m not bad as I think. I’m not as behind as I think. Yeah, it was a 5 that is important to me. We’re reinforcing in your brain with your words. And you’ll get things, oh it’s not a 2 because if I don’t change now it could be too late. Or it’s not a 2 because I waited to long and my pain has gotten worse. They start to unravel the magic. But then another question and this will be the last example I give you. Will be 1 through 10, 10 is the most confident, 1 is the least confident. How confident are you, you can successfully achieve your goal? If someone says oh, I’m an 8 out of 10. Interesting, because it was only a 5 out of 10 for importance. But it’s nearly a 10 out of 10 on confidence. So you’re really confident about a goal that’s not that important. Or it could be opposite, it’s really important but I’m not confident. Two completely different people to coach. We literally have an entire script of motivational questions that are based in neuroscience and behavioral change. Not just the language but the sequence. So by the time you get to the end and you do a summary, they say how did you get all of that out of me.  Number two, you clearly listened. But most important, they say I just admitted that to myself outloud and another human being. That is the start of a valuable change. Is getting clear on what you’re willing to do and ready to do versus not. So there’s not sets and reps, there’s no calories, or anything. What’s your why? And are you ready and willing to change at this time because if you’re not it’s a trainwreck. And I’d be irresponsible to offer you to do it, quite honestly. Maggie: What I think is really fascinating about everything that you just outlined and all the questions that you brought up the word goal with. Those questions could be transitioned from a pre-coaching session to a goal setting session for your career, for your family, for how you want to set up your life at home or whatever it is. It’s how you do anything is how you do everything. Scott: Yes. Maggie: And so I think, at aSweatLife we do really believe that like what happens at the gym is not just that little box of time in the gym and then you leave and your gone. It’s those things that come up in there can carry out to the rest of your life if you let them. And it’s just about. Scott: It’s supposed to, right? Maggie: Right. And it can in a really positive way if you’re open to it. And if you say. Oh yeah, this small victory I did do this thing that was awesome. I’m going to go carry it into my meeting at work. Then I’m going to do the next thing that’s awesome.  So it’s really fascinating and really cool to hear because it is just a conversation around like how do we feel about goals, in general. Scott: Yeah. And what do I mean by goal? Is that just the outcome, is that the process. How will I know when I’ve got there. Measurably and subjectively. How do I know when I’ve actually got there. Most goals are subjective. I want to be in less pain, I want to feel better. That’s a subjective goal. How do we know when we’re there when you’ve arrived? And finally, how do you want to get there. Are you a kind of person who says I’ve got to get on the freeway and get there as quick as possible?  Okay, but then it’s the freeway and it’s concrete jungle and there’s lots of in and out. No, I’d rather take the scenic route. I’d rather go slow and take in the sights. So there’s where you’re going and then there’s how you want to get there. But invariably there is going to be traffic and roadwork. So as a coach, you’ve got to be a GPS and recalculate the route. Which for me, in my experience is every session. You can just see it emotionally in people when you get used to coaching wise. Something just happened where you stopped enjoying this session, that didn’t feel good. Maybe I said something that wasn’t. You know? Or maybe I didn’t listen to something you needed me to listen. I saw something in my client, the entire posture changed. You better recalculate right now.  And so for us, we’d say most people what they emotionally care about is outside the gym. There is very little emotional connection to the dumbell. So yes, in groups that’s different. Don’t get me wrong. That sense of tribe, community, relationships, being part of something bigger than yourself, agreed. But in one-on-one, I would honestly say that most people what they care about is outside the gym. They’re hoping what they transform inside the gym makes that better out. That’s what they’re trying to improve is their life outside the gym. And the people who care about their life inside the gym are the people who work inside the gym. Quite honestly most clients don’t. Maggie: So, I want to pull it back to you for a minute. Because you’ve talked about going from not finishing high school at first. To where you are now which is cofounder of multiple companies. And a huge contributor to what we know about  modern fitness today. You’ve written 50 or more accredited courses that people now go through to get their own certifications. And how you’ve gone from one step to the next. When you look back on it now, what do you think was your guiding force throughout? Or has that changed? Scott: That’s a really great questions. Today, looking back I’ve got a different lens than if you had asked me a year ago or ten years ago, right? But the common thread is to truly be of service. I know it sounds really cheesy but from PGA Global to Pivotal to coaching people or teams or kids. And a lot of what I do is volunteer work in the community. A lot of the teams that I coach, the high schools and the local soccer leagues. It’s all volunteer work, right.  I find that I’m at my most happiest, in flow. When you’re not thing about the bills or the money. When nothing else matters in that present moment is when I’m being of service to someone as a coach. Whether it’s the teacher coach, the sports coach, as a coach. And it could be 4:00 on a Friday night, pouring rain on Foster Lake shore where I coach soccer. And we’ve got out ten year old kids, our eleven year old kids, our sixteen year old high school girls and it’s pouring with rain and it’s 25 degrees. The time just flies. And you get home soaked and cold and you think I want to do it again. It’s those moments where you feel that in flow there is something going on in you. You know what I mean? There’s an internal something directing you. So the single biggest directive force is that, I find that when I’m of service to people, selfishly it seems to make me feel really great. So maybe that’s one good use for being selfish [...]. And I really do want to know that it mattered, to be honest mate. I want to know that the work I do matters. I guess I can only speak for myself but man some many times you go through life and you think did anything I do today make a blind bit of difference. Do you know what I mean? Or, in some cases made it worse. But at the end of the day you want to know that your life made a difference. To someone or something bigger than yourself. I think that’s the biggest directing force I’ve had is the sense of I think this makes a difference. I just have a feeling this makes a difference. I don’t know if that answered your question or if it was too esoteric. I can make it more pragmatic if you want. Maggie: No, I think that it gives me goosebumps because I think that’s what everyone wants to some degree. And that’s a really special thing to find your flow. I don’t know that we can all say that we have it enough. We have probably been in flow at some point in our lives. But maybe we’re not attuned enough to saying this is it, how do I recreate this. It seems like you do have that awareness sort of around what is the secret sauce to when you’re feeling in flow and how you can keep doing it. Or keep bringing it back as much as possible. Would you agree? Scott: Yeah. I think the struggle for all of us, myself included is I think we do know what that is. There’s just an innate knowing, you know? It like saying I don't know if I love my kids. You know you love your kids. You can’t find the words. You know, right? But life, we allow ourselves to be distracted by what’s urgent rather than important. By what’s demanding. So I’ve often taken jobs that didn’t feel good. Because the money was a safety net. Or the benefits were a safety net. Or whatever it was, even though I knew there was a big [...] I would love and yeah it’s in my industry. And then a year in you’re like, this is not me. But you go along because now you’ve got bills and kids. We do and that’s real man. But at some stage you know you can’t die with your music in you. That’s for sure. Maggie: Yeah. Scott: You know what I mean? Maggie: Right. Scott: It’s like being in flow is when you sit down and you’re writing. I write alot for work and also non-work stuff. And you’ll just be in flow and you have it going you don’t realize 3 or 4 hours are gone and it’s 20 pages on the floor. And you realize crap, I didn’t number them. Because you’re just in flow. It doesn’t happen every day. It doesn’t and there’s things you have to do to reconnect to it when you lose it. You know, there’s prayer or meditation, whatever it is that connects you to that thing. For some people, it’s playing sport. It’s dance. Maggie: Yeah. Scott: When you feel disconnected, you better reconnect. You know. You have to because that is really painful being constantly disconnected from your source, your flow. That’s a really painful existence, for me it was. Often, what sparks me into reconnecting is how much more miserable do I have to get before I reclaim happiness, you know? How much more self-pity, wallowing. Sometimes you have to say hold on, there’s what happens to you and then it’s how you react to it. And sometimes you have to say stop that’s enough. I’m going to reconnect to what makes me feel good. I’m going to go back to where I’m in flow. And it requires a leap very often. And Pivotal started when, two years ago. I had been at Midtown Athletic Club as their national director for five years rebuilding the facilities, re-recruiting the coaches, developing Midtown University, it was huge projects. And I realized I was getting more into operations again. More into PNLs and that’s what the job deserves and that’s what they deserve. But in my mind I thought maybe I could manipulate it to be more education so that wasn’t fair. So I had a wonderful chat with an incredible COO, John Brady. And [...] changed. It was like I need to reclaim and he said Scott just do what you love and you’re great at. That’s why I recruited you in the first place. And I went home and I realized I need to make a change. Loved the club, loved the people but I wasn’t in flow anymore. I made two phone calls on the way home that day to two leaders in the industry that I hadn’t spoken to in years. I said what would you say if I said I was available to write education, deliver education, and teach teachers again. Within 24 hours, I had a plane trip to China and I was in boardrooms speaking to these leaders. And I came home to Haley and I said I think we need to start a company. But you honestly need to stop doing one thing that wasn’t making you happy but do it the right way. Don’t just cut and run. Consider other people. And then took this leap of faith, like these two names came to me and it was like wow, they’re leaders man. Should I really call them. They picked up immediately and said I want you on a plane. And it was that reminder light that when you say yes to life it conspires to help you, you know what I mean? That’s my experience but you’ve got to do the work. It doesn’t just come. It’s not Mary Poppins sitting around and hope that if I meditate good things come. No, you’ve got to meditate but then you’ve got to take action, right? It takes a lot of work. Relentless effort, actually. Relentless effort and I think that’s the final piece. For successful people I see is, if it sounds like a lot of work, it’s because it is. Maggie: It’s probably ten times more than it even sounds like. Scott: Success is always hard work whether in love relationships, raising your kids, business life. To be good at anything is probably going to take a bloody lot of work. But if you’re enthusiastic and you’re in flow more often than not, even on the bad days it’s like you know what, I can do that. Maggie: Well this has been an awesome conversation. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast, Scott. Scott: Thanks for having me! I hope the listeners get something out of the crazy stuff that comes out but it was an honor. It was really nice. Cindy: He goal getters, co-host and producer Cindy Kuzma here. Just letting you know that we have coming up for you now a goal from one of you, our listeners. This is another one recorded live at the Michelob Ultra Sweatworking Week Fitness Festival last month. If you want to share one of your goals with us, whether it’s a goal you achieved, a goal your setting up to achieve, even a piece of goal-getting advice that you’d like to share you could do that and you could be featured on this very podcast. All you have to do is record it and email it in mp3, wav, whatever kind of file you want to  Cindy@aSweatLife.com. Thanks and here is you and one of your goals. Speaker: So I set a couple of goals earlier this year and I noticed that one thing I didn’t do was have accountability in a plan. So I find myself now it’s June and I haven’t accomplished the goals that I set for myself.  Because I haven’t set those checkpoints to say, hey, you know how are you going to get there? Have you been doing everything on a daily basis, on a weekly basis? And then just that accountability. So whether that’s telling someone and having them check in with you, or just saying by first quarter I’m going to accomplish this and then next quarter I’m going to accomplish that. And then I just found myself not having achieved anything. So, for the second part of the year I’m going to reset and visit some different goals and create strategies that are more focused around holding myself accountable for those specific plans. Cindy: This podcast is produced by me, Cindy Kuzma and it’s another thing that’s better with friends. So please, share it with yours. You can subscribe pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts including now on Spotify. And while you’re there if you could leave us a rating or review we would be so grateful. Special thanks to Jay Mono, for our theme music, to our guest this week, Scott Hobson, and to TechNexus for the recording studio. And of course, to you our listeners.  

He went from poppin' bottles to servin' up clean water all around the world. Meet Scott Harrison. Scott was on top of the party scene. He had the life so many dream of having! But after awhile, he felt there was more to life than what he was doing. So Scott sold everything and embarked on a journey to help others around the world. What he saw and learned about himself and humanity lead to the founding of charity: water. charity: water works to bring clean, drinkable water to developing countries around the world. Their goal is to bring water to 100 million people by 2020. Scott and the organization has reinvented what "charity" is while bringing a basic necessity of life, clean water, to so many that need it. See the impact charity: water is having on the world and learn how you can get involved at charitywater.org/elvis Topics in this week's episode include... Hot Scott Hit Rock Bottom while at the Top and How it Changed his Life How Experiencing Extreme Poverty Changed his Relationship with Money How the Skills from your Former Career will Always Serve You as you Build a New Life and Career Why Telling your Story can Inspire Others and Impact the World Why Scott Set Out on a Mission to Reinvent what "Charity" is How a 9 Year Old's Dying Wish Helped to Create a Global =Movement Why Focusing on your Natural Gifts is More Important than Focusing on Things You Don't Know Why World Water Day is so Important and How You Can Get Involved Connect with Scott Harrison on Twitter and Instagram: @scottharrison ​Join the Life Amplified Power Tribe and talk to Dan about this week's episode: facebook.com/groups/lifeamplified Learn more about Dan and how he can help you add more purpose, fulfillment, and joy in ALL aspects of your life at creativesoulcoaching.net Be social with Dan on Instagram and Twitter: @CSCDanMason​ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://news.iheart.com/podcast-advertisers

Thank you for reading this article, which comes to you originally from Personal Profitability.Young people used to be able to walk into a restaurant or retail store and easily get a job, but Scott Bennett found that wasn't the case with his kids. Getting a job today is not as easy as it used to be. So Scott created a solution for his kids and a huge number […] The post PPP094: Scott Bennett on Skratch & Teen Entrepreneurship appeared first on Personal Profitability.

Thank you for reading this article, which comes to you originally from Personal Profitability. Young people used to be able to walk into a restaurant or retail store and easily get a job, but Scott Bennett found that wasn't the case with his kids. Getting a job today is not as easy as it used to be. So Scott created a solution for his kids and a huge number […] The post PPP094: Scott Bennett on Skratch & Teen Entrepreneurship appeared first on Personal Profitability.

Session 36 Dr. Scott Steele is an academic Colorectal Surgeon and Chairman of the Colorectal Surgery Department at Cleveland Clinic. We discuss his love of the specialty. He has now been practicing outside of his fellowship for twelve years now. Dr. Steele also hosts his own podcast called Behind the Knife. Check it out as well as a host of all our other podcasts on the MedEd Media Network. [01:17] His Interest in Colorectal Surgery Scott knew he wanted to do surgery from the first time he got his clinical years and did some primary care. He also considered orthopedics since he likes sports. But colorectal surgery dawned on him when he met some mentors. Not being a sexy topic, he didn't really give it much time. But he found a mentor when he was in residency. Towards the end of his second year, going into his third year and on his fourth year, he began thinking about colorectal surgery. He hung around them and went to the meeting which he found an incredible experience. He thought they did both great in surgery and academics. They take care of patients that have diseases that he likes. They do some outpatient and inpatient surgeries, colonoscopies, and major oncological reconstructions. So it was something he was interested in. He initially thought about doing heart surgery but he thought he wanted a little bit more of variety. He knew he didn't want to do orthopedics in medical school after he did one rotation at the University of Wisconsin. Although he likes orthopedics and how it's related with sports, it just didn't trigger him. "I was more in the process of easily ruling things out." So Scott did this process of ruling things out. Surgical oncology is okay but colorectal did great cancer operations as well. Surgical oncology tend to not do the wide breadth of people. They tend to serve old people, a lot of them are dying in a lot of cases. It was something he didn't want to do. Minimally invasive surgery was a burgeoning fellowship at that time and it was its own fellowship. But he thought colorectal also does minimally invasive surgery. In fact, now minimally invasive surgery is a standard component of any particular field. So it's not in and of itself. So he made the jump from heart surgery to colorectal surgery. Scott was a general surgeon. He was in the military and he spent a year after his residency at Fort Hood, Texas where he practiced general surgery. So he basically did the vast bread and butter of general surgery. But growing up in a small town in northern Wisconsin that had amazing surgeons. And as a general surgeon, he didn't want to get pigeon-holed in being the hernia guy or the bowel obstruction guy or the lap chole person. He knew he wanted to do academics. He knew he wanted to do a subspecialty. So the more and more he went into colorectal surgery, the more he realized it fit his personality. It fit all the things he was looking for in a career. "The more I went into colorectal surgery, the more I realized it fit my personality. It fit all the things I was looking for in a career." [06:03] Traits that Lead to Becoming a Good Colorectal Surgeon Scott says that it's more on how we are as people. But what he found with colorectal surgeons is that they don't take themselves so seriously in broad, sweeping strokes. They have a ton of fun. They are generally good people. But they also have a side where they're really busy clinical surgeons in the community and academic centers. And for those that did academics, it was great medicine. There was basic science research and others did hard core epidemiological research. He adds that when you walk into a clinic and pick up a chart or log on the EMR and see what they're doing, patients have a special part of their body. They may not even tell their spouses of many years about what's going on with them. It tends to be something that's very intimate and very personal. It bleeds or itches. They feel something and that patient in many cases think they have cancer or they think something's wrong. If your arm itched or bled or you felt something, you'd look at it. But that part of the body is so hard to look at. So patients have an extreme amount of trust in you. Within five minutes of talking to them, you're asking them to pull down their pants and look at their back side. A lot of things can be in that person's mind. And in all of those aspects, you have to be able to go in and establish patient rapport right off the bat. Make them understand that despite their misconceptions, it's okay. It's very routine. And many people experience the same type of symptoms they're experiencing. So you need to keep it a little bit light. Let them know you take their symptoms seriously and that you're going to walk them through the process. Keep in mind that in the United States alone, colorectal cancer is the second or third leading cause of cancer-related deaths every year. It's something we don't talk that much about. Scott says it's something they can intervene and interact with that given how serious the topic is, you don't yourself too seriously. "Colorectal cancer is the second or third leading cause of cancer-related deaths every year." [09:51] Types of Patients As a colorectal surgeon, you see all age ranges and a mix of benign and malignant diseases. Scott is the lead editor of The ASCRS Textbook of Colon and Rectal Surgery and in the book, they talk about how they organize colorectal diseases. The organize it into six folds. First, is endoscopy. It's a large percentage of what they do. They use scopes and they're able to do a lot of advanced procedures through it. Second, they see the plethora of anorectal disease such as hemorrhoids, fissures, fistulas, etc. It's the routine but stuff they do and a big part of the practice. Third subset is they see the malignancy - anal cancer, rectal cancer, colon cancer. Those are the major operations you can do minimally invasive procedures. You can use laparoscopy and open surgery. You can do robotics and all the different neat tools and tricks you do. Fourth, is they get to see a lot of the benign disease which includes a lot of the inflammatory diseases such as IBD, the Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and diverticulitis. Fifth is you also get to see pelvic floor disorders. Those are the patients with obstructive defecations and those with rectal prolapse or fecal incontinence. And last is your miscellaneous type. But the first five types mentioned by Scott are the ones where when you talk about colorectal disease, you can break each of those down. You can see how you have all the plethora and combine that with scopes where you can do things endoscopically. They have one person in their department who is a very gifted and technical surgeon. He was able to take off early cancers through the colonoscopy and save people from having to go major surgery. It's that wide breadth of patient variety, ages, outpatient, inpatient, scopes, major operations that is the unique part of colorectal surgery. Contrast that with things like surgical oncology or cardiac surgery and that's what drew Scott into the field. “It's that wide breadth of patient variety, ages... scopes, major operations that is the unique part of colorectal surgery.” [13:20] A Typical Week For Scott, he spends his Mondays in the operating room. He has all-day clinic on Tuesdays. Wednesday is his admin day as the Chairman of the Department. He typically has a lot of meetings. Thursday is an operating day and Friday, he does scopes and some afternoon meetings. This is a pretty standard week for people where you have a mixture of clinics and other things. The person who started Relay for Life, Gordy Klatt, was a colorectal surgeon. He died a couple of years ago. He was a community colorectal surgeon and one of the last independent providers. Scott covered for him for seven years. Scott was in the military and would take some vacation and cover for him. He had a much different practice. He saw clinic a half a day everyday. He would operate on most days as well. The admin days are part of many private practices but it wasn't part of his. He ran his own business with his wife being his business manager. He would have major operating days maybe three days a week. And he would do colonoscopy on a certain day of the week. He would also always come back to his clinic. So there is a wide variety depending on where you're at and what is the practice you're in. If you have a big group practice or a multispecialty clinic such as the polyclinic in Seattle or if you're working at an academic medical center like the Cleveland Clinic. It has a very busy high volume center. "Depending on what your niche is and what you'll be able to do really would determine your practice." Somebody in his department that does pelvic floor may see a little bit more clinic than somebody who's an IBD specialist who may have a mixture of clinic and operating days. So this varies according to the individual unique practice that you want to set up. [16:00] Operations and Calls Scott says they treat colorectal disease. And as a part of that, the referral pattern you're in would determine a lot of how much medical management has already been done. Many pelvic floor disorders, for example, need medical therapy or workup. Fecal incontinence in many cases can be treated with bulking agents and some Imodium and some pelvic floor retraining. So they won't need an operation anymore. There's also a study that 50% of hemorrhoid consults are not hemorrhoids alone. Or there's something that never needs an operation. Diverticulitis can be treated with antibiotics. So you can see that a lot of these disease processes are treated with multispecialty type approach that medical management is a major part of it. So on a typical clinic, not accounting your post-ops or your follow-ups, anywhere between 20% or 30% depending on your individual practice may require surgery. But all of them have some semblance of needs for the colorectal surgeon to treat either surgically or medically. "They look at you as an "expert" of the hindgut to treat whatever is going on so you do have to know your medicine." With regard to calls, Scott says they vary more than anything else. It depends on who takes the call and how many people are there in the practice. It also depends if you're asked to do general surgery and colorectal or just colorectal surgery alone. It also depends if you have acute care surgery or you have fellows and residents. Scott thinks that they're one of the largest colorectal departments, if not, the largest in the United States and maybe in the world.  They have well over 20 colorectal surgeons. So for them, call is busy. But they can be extremely busy when you're on call because it's a major referral center. At their clinic, they get patients all over from the northeast Ohio to Kentucky, West Virginia, and all over the world. So a lot of the diseases that can happen that affect the colon in such a busy hospital. They have fellows and residents. It's a very busy fellowship and a very busy residency. Scott says they are up all night long. It's a busy call but they're not crushed with calls. He has been on call a lot more in other places that he has worked. Additionally, you have to determine that as a subspecialist, especially a subspecialist branching out from general surgery. This could include bariatrics or minimally invasive surgeon, surgical oncologists, colorectal surgery. In each of these, you're oftentimes asked to take general surgery call. When he was in the military, his call was colorectal surgery and also general surgery call. That mixes in your bowel obstructions, cholecystitis, appendectomies, hernias, etc. That can drastically change your call in terms of the number and the types of patients you see. Some people want to do that. Scott did general surgery call for seventeen years. But he doesn't do it anymore and he doesn't do trauma anymore. He's fine with that. But other people are looking for jobs as a part of their colorectal practice that they can still do a little bit of general surgery. Unless you're going to a major medical center where it's a colorectal call only, you may be asked to do some general surgery calls. And that has its pluses and minuses. Some of their east side hospitals take a bit of general surgery call. That's part of the institution you're working at. People primarily at the outer institutions away from the main campus take general surgery calls. But that's part of the hospital they're a part of. They also have other jobs in the hospital. You're working with people and you get to know the fellow doctors you're working with. You help out. You cover for them and vice versa. So that's a unique aspect of that. Scott took general surgery call because he liked it. At times it's rough. But he can say that especially earlier in your career and especially if you're going to a community based setting, don't be surprised that you're going to be taking some general surgery call. "If you're going to a community based setting, don't be surprised that you're going to be taking some general surgery call." [22:45] Work-Life Balance Scott explains that time is the most precious commodity that you have. That's why you need to prioritize. Really determine what do you want to do in life and what do you want to be. What are your goals? Regardless of your specialty, you have to prioritize and figure out what type of practice you have. What type of priorities do you have and where do you go? Earlier in his career, he knew he wanted to do academics. So he had a very hard time saying no. Anybody would ask him to write a chapter and he would do it. Or they'd ask him to review an article or travel or teach a course or cover a call, he'd do it. Being in the military, he started being deployed. And then he got deployed for a number of times. The next thing he knew, he has one daughter, grew up and realized he's missing a lot of her life. You're going to be busy. If you want to do academics, there's never enough time for academics. There's no such thing as protected time. And even for those who have "protected" time, everything else impinges on it. So you have to really set aside time to decide what you're going to do. Scott has had friends who started on academic career and did a bunch of stuff. Then they felt they didn't have the passion for it. So they stepped back from it or did it selectively. And that's great because it works for them. Scott likes academics a lot and says that unfortunately, you have to find time. He reviews for a number of journals and serves as an editor for several textbooks. He has traveled the world and has met wonderful people. He has operated in places he never thought he would operate on. He would have never thought he'd see some of those places and had the unique experiences. "Academic surgery has been a very fulfilling and wonderful career. " But Scott knew he wanted to be the guy who wants to be involved in the journal and the textbooks. He wanted to be involved in teaching fellows and residents. So when he sits down with fellows, he asks them who they want to be. Training is funny especially in medical school and residency. You constantly have people come up to you and say how you could chose this profession and that. You feel this angst that you can't talk bad about. Or you can't say what you really want to do. Especially when you're training in academic institutions, you feel this push to say that you don't want to be a community based surgeon but that's what you want to do. Scott believes over half of their specialty is made up of community colorectal surgeons. That's the socio-economics we have. That's the demographics and the geopolitical aspect we have. It's a big land mass. Many general surgeons cover a lot of things. Colorectal people may find themselves clustered or be in an independent town working on their own. When Scott went into his first week of surgical residency, he knew he wanted to be a program director. As he progressed along his residency, he knew he wanted to do academics. And he knew he wanted to be the chairman one day. He feels like he's the luckiest person in the world to be the chairman of colorectal surgery at the clinic. He finds it a really great job at a wonderful institution with extremely talented people in and our of his department. He has many other friends at other institutions that are lifelong friends outside of medicine. But he knew those are all he wanted to do. He knew he wanted to do the complex cases. And one of his best friends don't want to do it. He wants to be the guy that just does the bread and butter thing and take care of patients. He just wants to be a very busy person and get home at five so he can teach his kids softball. Now, Scott has the opportunity to do much more of this. But it's a matter of how you want to prioritize. His advice to people is to be true to yourself. There's going to be people telling you do this and that. They're going to fade in and out of your life as time goes on depending on those relationships. But you have to be happy. "The worst you can make is find yourself in a career that you never wanted to be in the first place." [27:42] Mentorship and the Path to Residency and Fellowship As a colorectal, you start out in the communities. This is the reason you see a lot of the major colorectal training programs are community-based clinics (Asher Clinic, Mayo Clinic, Lahey Clinic. University of Minnesota, where Scott trained, was one of the few universities that had a major training program. A lot of the university centers felt general surgeons could do it all and they didn't have the need for a colorectal surgeon. As medicine has changed as well as life in general, they have found there is a call for subspecialists. The call for having subspecialists, not always in every place, is a need. So the subspecialization in many cases has got a positive and negative effect on it. For example, you have people that think they're going to learn everything they want to learn in their fellowship. So they can just coast through their residency. But Scott disagrees with this. Their goal in fellowship is to refine and retrain people, not to teach them from the basics. The subspecialization has become a bit more prominent, And as colorectal surgery has really taken off and now found a niche, not only in the community but also in major academic centers, now they can go everywhere. Scott is proud to say that for the last several years, they've been one of the most highly competitive and sought after matches. That's when you consider the programs, slots available to the number of applicants that apply. "For the last several years, they've been one of the most highly competitive and sought after matches." Scott says when you look at some of these kids that come through and you see their CV's, you'd be surprised to see what they've done. You will hear many colorectal surgeons that if they had to apply now, they won't know if they'd get a spot. The point is that the field is now becoming more competitive. Scott's advice to those who want to get any fellowship, including colorectal surgery, it's important to plan ahead. It's important that you now have some research and have good board scores. It's important to have good mentors in life. Moreover, Scott says the best part about medicine is we never stop learning. Technology continues to evolve. Disease processes and what we know about them continue to evolve. "Link up with a mentor. Find out what they do. And you get a lot out of a mentor-mentee relationship." Depending on the general surgery you have, it usually involves five years of clinical time plus or minus research. Most programs are one clinical year. A few would be research year of colorectal and then a clinical year after that. Then post-training is one or two years. In many cases, they have a clinical associate year. It's like a super-fellow where after finishing your fellowship year, you spend another dedicated one-year training or six months doing reoperative surgery for example. But only a few selected institutions have that. [32:53] Bias Against DOs Scott notices that any bias has changed over time. He doesn't know if the MD versus DO is as prominent as it used to be. He recalls during training that there were programs that won't accept a DO student even no matter how great they were. He was in the military for a long time and they had both MD and DO residents. Some of the best kids he has trained were osteopathic students. He also had a roommate in Iraq. He is a DO ER doctor and toxicologist and he describes him as the one of the brightest physicians he has ever met. Ultimately, you have them in both sides of the fence. Scott went to Madigan Army Medical Center and he's proud to be in the military and trained in the military. But comparing it to training at Cleveland Clinic, he knew he had to distinguish himself. He had to be much better. So what he tells DO residents is that they have to be real. There still may be a stigma associated with going to an osteopathic school for medical training. And because of that, you may not get the interview or they may look at you as someone who should blow their socks off. So your scores have to be that much better. Your publication should be that much better. That doesn't mean you're not better than the person next to you. But take that stigmatism out of it will blow their socks off. Scott adds that if in a program somebody comes to you and has an automatic bias against you, then maybe that's not the program you want to train in anyway. Surgical residency is a fun time and it's a lot of growth. "Put yourself in a good position where you almost force them to take a solid look at you and put everything else aside." [37:45] Subspecialty Opportunities and Working with Primary Care and Other Specialities At Cleveland Clinic, they have teams. It's not all they do but they have a focus of things. They have a cancer team, an IBD team, and a pelvic floor team. They have a team of hard core basic science researchers who also still maintain a clinical practice. They run labs. Scott says you can make yourself and find your niche and do that. You can both that in an academic medicine as well as in the community. That's the unique aspect about medicine and about surgery, specifically, colorectal surgery. Another unique aspect of being a colorectal surgeon is you can transition into teaching or mentoring type program. You can also transition into primarily endoscopy only. Or you can do just outpatient surgery and focus on anorectal type of disease. You can also do mentoring and teaching medical students. Scott says that's the cool thing about colorectal surgery because there's such a wide range of patients and such a wide range of disease processes that you can take care of. It really fits at all stages of your surgical career. "That's the cool thing about colorectal surgery...it really fits at all stages of your surgical career." Scott explains that you become a doctor when you know more about walking in other people's shoes. You see what they do and get a feel for their care path or how they treat patients. It just allows them to be better care providers. This is especially true for primary care providers being the frontline care providers. The more they know about subspecialists, it saves the patient a lot of grief when they come and see them with rectal bleeding but they've never been treated with fiber. Or they have hemorrhoids but they've never been truly treated with a medical therapy. Patients come to him and they automatically think they need surgery. So Scott's advice to primary care providers is to take a look if their institutions have those and learn about them via algorithmic textbook. You're never too old to take a look at just a textbook and look at rectal bleeding. You could have been trying something else all along that could either help the symptom or conversely rule it out. So you can then move on to the next step of therapy. You mostly see this in the anorectal type of processes and disease states in colorectal surgery. Hemorrhoids are the classic ones. the anatomy can be confusing to people. Nobody is expecting you to be a subspecialist or to treat complex disease. But you need to understand the very basics about certain health problems. Other specialties Scott works the closest with include medical oncology and radiation oncology. They also work with pathology and radiology as part of the multidisciplinary team report. They also work with urogynecologists on pelvic floor disorders. They also work with general surgeons specializing in abdominal wall reconstruction. Other specialties they work with are urology, plastic surgery, neurosurgery, gynecology, and gastrologist. "We're all in this fight together to take care of patients. We all want our patients to have good outcomes." Scott's advice to students is for them to understand and appreciate what doctors do and the disease processes they treat and the tremendous amount of hard work they do. As you get older, these are the patients that refer patients to you. So have that good referral relationship because patients are your lifeline. So you realize they're not your enemies but your colleagues who have gone through a lot of training as well. [47:25] What He Wished He Knew About Colorectal Surgery Scott explains that at the end of the day, it comes down to patients. It's about understanding the degree of what a patient is going through. The medical journey is extremely fulfilling. You can do anything you want to from being a busy clinical colorectal surgeon to being a hard core academician. And colorectal surgery, like a lot of other things, provides you that. What's neat too is you get to mature as a physician. But if you've ever been sick or you've known somebody close to you as sick, sometimes you lose that perspective where you're in a job on a day-to-day basis. You forget that the person sitting next to you has so many things going on. "Keep in mind that that's a person there and not a case number or a sticky." Scott says it's easy to lose sight of this but keep all under perspective and it makes your job even much more fulfilling. What he likes most about being a colorectal surgeon is being able to operate. He loves the ability to do something. He tells his students there's no more intimate relationship you'll ever have than having the trust of somebody allowing you to cut into their bodies and operate on them. Somebody's entrusting to you that they're going to sleep. You're cutting into them. You're taking out the cancer. You can't get more intimate than that. You'll be inside somebody else's body. So it's an incredible amount of trust they have that you will hopefully take care of them. Understand that you're human and you're fallible. There are complications that can come up. On the flip side, what Scott likes the least about being a colorectal surgeon is the amount of time you have in medicine in charting. He likes seeing patients but the amount of time physicians have to do this is becoming less and less. Combine that with charting and EMR. Then you lose sight of the fact that you had a great interaction with the patient. This can somehow get diminished or lost in the shuffle. Scott finally says that time is probably the most precious commodity that we have in all things. It's something everybody needs to take a better look at. Realize what you want to do. How do you want to spend it in the most effective and efficient manner that you can? [52:45] Major Changes in Colorectal Surgery Scott explains that technology always changes and always drives. People have a curious mind and they will continue to drive. They see a problem. They think about a problem and try to find something to fix it. Some of those things revolutionize medicine and others fall by the wayside. Right now, the hottest thing is pushing the limits of endoscopic therapies for different types of diseases and minimally invasive surgery. As we go more towards natural orifice surgery, they try to decrease that. Finally, when asked whether he still would have have chosen colorectal surgery if he had to do it again, his answer was an absolute yes. All he can say is that it's a wonderful career. It's extremely rewarding. And he looks forward to doing it for a long time to come. His advice to premeds or medical students getting started on this journey is to find a mentor. Find somebody that can sit down and tell you the ropes and guide you a bit. You can read a textbook or listen to a podcast such as this or his podcast Behind the Knife. The information is out there and you have to have fundamental basic knowledge. But there's nothing that beats relationships and has that ability to have somebody guide you through that process. Have great board scores. Do research in the field you want to go into. And you have to be competitive. You have to have the baseline minimum. "Find a mentor. Find somebody that can sit down and tell you the ropes and guide you a bit." But the more fulfilling part of life is having and building those relationships and finding out what makes people tick and what makes the specialty so great. That's where the mentor-mentee relationship comes into play. Meet other people and truly get to know them. [58:15] Final Thoughts If you're interested in colorectal surgery, follow Dr. Steele's advice. Find a mentor. Find a colorectal surgeon out there that's doing what you want to do. And start connecting with those people. Don't forget to check out Dr. Steele's podcast, Behind the Knife. Links: MedEd Media The ASCRS Textbook of Colon and Rectal Surgery R elay for Life Cleveland Clinic Madigan Army Medical Center Dr. Scott Steele's podcast Behind the Knife

Riders on the Norm   Agenda - Friday July 14 Episode 88 XGames and Gold Medals   So Scott and I tuned into @harleydavidson Facebook live video to watch our boys race in the Hooligan Class, Flairty took the Gold! We also talked to JP Rodman about the upcoming Run to Raton.          SPONSORS First Mfg Co @firstmfgco www.firstmfg.com Turbine Jacket and Smarty Pants DEATH SCIENCE use code ROTN for 15% off GET LOWERED -We want riders to hear about us, check us out and see if they like the stuff we carry. We are constantly looking for/adding gear & parts from new companies that have a really cool style and appeal to the riders who are into the custom scene & lifestyle. Our products are mostly Harley with an emphasis on the Bobber/chopper/custom style. Our latest include companies like Rusty Butcher, Indian Larry apparel, Prism Supply and Thrashin. We offer free shipping on anything – no minimum and we are always here to help our riders. Listeners can go to www.GetLowered.com or find us on Instagram/Facebook @get_lowered. chopcult.com sign up for free membership Show Class Mag - NORMRIDERS Promo Code Black Dagger Apparel- blackdaggerapparel.com promo code ROTN     Website www.ridersonthenorm.com made some updates thanks to Chris Hague theemptyearth.com  Donate button and Support are super important   Youtube Channel       RUN TO RATON July 21-23 - New Mexico Party…. no show raffling off 2017 Born Free TRIKE   TWIN RIVERS CHOPPER CAMP-OUT Aug 18-19 Crumbler, NC at Twin Rivers Family Campground, Crumbler, NC no run this year - just camp and party By The River - August 26th Lumber River Family campground   THUNDERBIRD HOTEL PARTY - Death Science - Sep 9 Florence, SC Josh Rising   HEROES RUN IV SUNDAY SEP 17 2017 Richmond, VA   Georgia Grundle Run- Sept 23   WAR RUN Oct 14th - Saturday - Wilmington, NC Set Date - Saturday Oct 14th depart from Dunn NC - location TBD route 421 S destination - Moore’s Creek Battle Ground Compound - after Party tent camping availablez Revenge Run flashback - discuss the time I got rear ended headed to Rocky Mount   SouthBound And Down - October 28th 2017 at The Boardr in Tampa. Email southboundanddownfl@gmail.com for info. @southbound_and_down   EMAILS    

When something goes wrong in the wilderness, someone needs to evacuate and get help. When that someone is you, and every minute counts, the stress is enormous. And you just might not be fast enough. Scott Pirsig and Bob Sturtz were on a spring canoeing adventure in the Boundary Waters, a million-acre wilderness in northern Minnesota, when Bob suddenly started acting weird. He complained of a headache. Then he became disoriented, lost control of his hands, and stopped speaking. He’d suffered a stroke, which meant time was everything: the longer it took to get him to a hospital, the more brain cells he’d lose. If it took more than a few hours, he’d die. So Scott zipped his friend into his sleeping bag, begged him to stay put, and paddled off at a sprint into dense fog. What happened next forever changed both men.

EP082 - Amazon Earnings, Walmart and Other News Amazon News Amazon earnings call was a clean "beat and raise" exceeding analyst estimates for revenue and earned income.  That drove the stock up 4% (approx 960), putting Amazon in striking distance of the $1000 price (which would also make Jeff Bezos the most wealthy man in the world. Jeff Bezos comments were primarily focused on progress in India. Jeff Bezos 2016 Shareholder letter is another can't miss (and don't forget to reread the 1997 letter posted at the end if you haven't seen it before) Amazon has been profitable for 8 consecutive quarter 3P Marketplace is over 50% of Amazon sales, putting total GMV for the Quarter around $60B AWS continues to grow (47% this quarter) but rate of growth has continued to slow as they get larger Prime estimates are now as high as 80M members Amazon launched the new Echo Look device Walmart News Walmart has a new startup incubator "store 8" and Rent the Runway Founder Jenny Fleiss is the first project with a new personalized shopping concept Walmart is offer new "Jet Style" discounts when you buy online and ship to store (vs. ship to home) Walmart acquired Shoes.com url for $9M Rumors that Walmart is in talks to acquire Bonobos  Petsmart buys Chewy.com for $3.35M (largest e-commerce acquisition ever) Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes. Episode 82 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Thursday April 6, 2017. http://jasonandscot.com Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at SapientRazorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing. New beta feature - Amazon Automated Transcription of the show: Transcript Jason: [0:25] Welcome to the Jason and Scott show this is episode 82 being recorded on Thursday April 6th 2017 I'm your host Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg and as usual I'm here Scot Wingo. Scot: [0:40] Hey Jason and hey Jason Scott show listeners Jason think it's been about 2 weeks since we set down to record a podcast and you've been. I've been to Orlando and you've been to Paris New York in Las Vegas Indian nursing the retail visits you can report on or trade shows. Jason: [0:59] Treasures of first I'd like to highlight I got to see both Eiffel towers and both empire state buildings so I feel like that I should get some sort of special badge on Swarm if nothing else for that. Scot: [1:11] Appointment by Venice in between there. Jason: [1:14] I avoided Menace in this particular Las Vegas trip I was over the end of the strip at Mandalay Bay. [1:21] So that that was this weekend that was for oracles modern user experience conference so I got a chance to, to do a keynote for their Commerce track there and that was fun I got to see a lot of colleagues and talk to some customers and see some of the new. New Direction that the Oracle Commerce Tech is going in which is interesting. [1:45] I think the week before that I was in Paris with and clients and we did some store visits. Maybe not the kind of stores that most of the e-commerce folks are interested in we went to a bunch of unique specialty stores in Paris and so. Drive for example El Royale which is like the the world's most famous Taxidermy store and got to check out some of the unique merchandising and unique Merchant. Dice it was available we didn't mention shopping in the Paris Flea Market which is kind of a. When the longer running flea markets are out there and some school stuff so that was fun but maybe not super e-commerce related. [2:29] And then I did not see any new stores in New York although I feel like they're a few under construction that I'm I'm here to check out when they open. [2:40] Abbott used cobbler in Orlando for something much more fun. Scot: [2:46] Yeah this was a spring break and, regular listeners will know I'm a big Star Wars fan so I drugged one of my children to a Star Wars celebration which is the 40th Year big anniversary did lucasfilm put on down in Orlando, it's good to be with $70,000 Starburst answer there's a lot of Star Wars and going on I got my fill for the year. Jason: [3:08] Nice and what percentage of the time when you say you were in costume. Scot: [3:11] I am not a cosplayer but no fair large percent of people are so it's always fun to see all the different costumes things people get pretty into it as you can imagine. Jason: [3:22] Oh yeah I'll bet it's annoying at the airport when everyone tries to go through security in the Stormtrooper outfits. Scot: [3:28] The bestest one year they had they always do like a stormtrooper March and they had that someone was doing like a marathon and they cross each other it was really funny watching the runners like run by a big blind of Stormtroopers. Jason: [3:44] Nice and the the daughter that went with you was she the winter or the loser in the Family Pool. Scot: [3:50] Other she's young enough to believe she was the winner so it was it was good. Jason: [3:54] I just wish she was the winner too but I think what we've been talking about all these trips as an Amazon been reporting earnings today. Scot: [4:04] Yeah just came out tonight so this is hot off the presses so. One pro tip for everyone to is 2 Pro tips every year a must-read for any retailer or person even. Remotely near industry is the Jeff Bezos shareholder letter I don't want to spoil that at all but I will put a link to it in the show notes to go look at that, the one of my favorite thing is to read as you go back to the 97 letter right one Amazon with public which they're celebrating 20 years of going public this year. [4:38] I include this in every years letter so chances are you probably seen this before but it's another thing to go read and it's pretty amazing cuz in that letter. Basically says we believe these three things aren't going to change control of low prices. Fast free shipping in selection and that's were going to focus on for the future it's pretty amazing though. [5:05] Italy nail all that 20 years later that that's a reading it it's almost as if it could be written today so I definitely meant that and then and this year shareholder letter. Luther departure some advice for auctioneers and things that I found really just really. Awesome so that's one pro tip partagas two and then the third would be when Amazon does there police they. I was clueless quote and I was looking to that because that I think you a pretty clear signal what's really important to them. Also there they have highlights there's 90 bullets these days cuz he does something effectively at least two Presley's a day at the space but that. What is always interesting and I'll just give you a little bit of it. R&D team is moving fast and delivering for customers and sellers the teams increase Prime selection by 70 / 75% since launching the program 9 months ago, increase lung capacity resellers by 26% already just this year announced 18 original TV series in India and last week introduced a Fire TV stick. I'm such a Jeff Bezos quote and then he finishes by saying Amazon. It's still day one for e-commerce today and I assure you they will keep investing in technology infrastructure, set that's so you know that. It's reassuring to me that they chose to really focus on India in the Presley's given all the exciting things that going on so that was interesting. Jason: [6:34] Yeah and I India's a hot e-commerce Topic at the moment, I think in the last night you know traditionally there been those kind to indigenous player Snapdeal and flip card and then of course the Amazon has been trying enter the market and even others have had some presents. [6:54] That's I think and last month eBay which she had previously invested in Snapdeal. Sold eBay. I am to Flipkart and made a big investment in Flipkart and I think the Google and maybe Alibaba had already invested in Flipkart so it, it's really starting to feel like, all the Indian players that aren't Amazon or trying to consolidate in the Flipkart and I think there's even rumors that foot card and snap the all-night emerge at some point in the idea being to create a super competitor to try to, fight Amazon for the Indian market so that that really seems like the the epicenter of the e-commerce Battleground in the world right now. Scot: [7:36] So the flip cart razor earlier in April was a 1.4 billion which is not chump change and then, Amazon up to two billion dollars in India and I think he knows we're looking for fullment Center build-out. You're probably already there so this feels like a. Teenage commitment that this is a super important region to them that they want I want to win and to get enough tools reactionary to that. That raise that just came out kind of given the timing and things that it's was hard to tell but they're really big on India which was is coming interesting thing from this earning release. Jason: [8:12] Yep in a super high level that's. White second most populous country in the world next to China they may be a little further along in education of the citizens and better internet access than China in so it's a huge e-commerce market and of course Amazon. Like basically this point already lost China so it's the largest market in the world it's that sort of open to competition. Scot: [8:38] Yeah I agree and I think Dave Dave yeah there's a lot of lessons to be learned from China of not going aggressive enough there and really kind of. Getting in front of the the local competitor so that they seem to be all in on India so if we if we kind of pill the. Onion on the quarter it it when you wake up measured against Wall Street expectations it's what you would call a beat and Rays quarter so exceeded expectations on the top and bottom line and then leave. Forecast for 2 2 came out slightly ahead of Wall Street consensus so that's kind of where that raise and be kind of nerve being raised. Language comes from that 35.7 billion and revenue for the quarter after hours the stock is a. Pretty substantially if so about 5% which ramazan it is a very large cap stocks and that moved it from the effective Lee like. 910 bucks to 954 n last time on the show we talked about. Jeff Bezos became number two richest person after a big move in this. If it gets around $1,000 by my napkin math that would put him over the top which is which is interesting it just, another interesting data point is it looks like it if these numbers hold, it looks like Amazon will have a market cap of about 450 billion and Google will be at 610 so there is this interesting talk about. Facebook salsa in the conversation will one of these tech companies get to other be the first trillion dollar market cap stock so that's kind of where we are positioning Google's a fair amount ahead by 50% ahead. [10:17] Abdul also announced of a pretty strong quarter what do you dig in. [10:24] Every component of Amazon beat Wall Street expectations to the retail business which is their traditional. Retail business which includes the marketplace this new line on them they just recently broke out called retail subs and we will dig into that Amazon web services which is cloud computing and then the other category Now isn't just the ad. Business it did very well at all so it was kind of a little bit. Yep not exceed expectations was International growth a lot of that was due to pre substantial currency. Teachers going on and we take those out and look at a constant currency International itself did pretty well. So with us International through 24% in his Baseline and I was like to remind listeners e-commerce is growing at 15%. To hear you have the largest e-commerce player growing it out easily. Not quite double at this point but you can certainly faster than the Baseline those they're taking sure I had a pretty tremendous clip so it's 9% higher and. [11:24] Equate 20 x the 35 billion no that's like 4 billion that just got sucked out of the other pockets of anyone selling online just in one quarter is one way to think of. So Sienna when is I used to like to look. And I stress treats people that Amazon doesn't get really clear category data but they. Always gave media an egm in EDM is electronics Jerome or should I stop doing that this year they provided a bunch of new disclosures annually and then, going forward it looks like they've stopped with media and AGM set to a bit of a bummer before Shelly I know enough to back into that so I was like to do that because it actually makes the number speaker, Amazon grew 24% looks like media grew at 7% media's books music video video games any digital books those kinds of things an egm is. Inside your obvious Electronics but any general merchandise so Sporting Goods cpg all that stuff has lumped into that category and it grew 26% so getting. Broccoli close to that 30% doubling of e-commerce unit growth was 24%. [12:35] And what reason is the stock is up is why she was expecting a book 13 earnings per share and it came in at a buck 48 so literally 33%. Beats by my math coupler components I like to look at Marketplace this is obviously a big thing I follow the number the. [12:53] Amazon reports is the percent of units that come from third-party and then tipped a little bit it always been taking up literally. Prime last 20 quarters I think and then I'll ask you for a last quarter it went from 50 to 49% units from third-party. Wizard we never seen it take down this quarter stick back up to 50% so that was good to see imagine going forward that will see it take up, car seems to be how it's going inside my bed is too you'll see 51 and then we get up kind of 253 ocean and q42, just the first part of business really get on fire during that timeframe. [13:35] We think we talk show if you tore Amazon deep dive there's this this kind of Amazons. Total sales revenue of 35.7 billion actually mask quite a bit of what's going on in there and what you have to do is take out the Amazon web services and ads and you're left with 24 billion thank you to the first party business, you would think well okay if 50% is units then it will be another 24 for third-party. Actually it's a little bit more because average order value of third-party is substantially higher than first party and. So when you kind of look at gmv versus units by Maya Matthew get about 36 billion for third-party when you had those up Amazon. About twice as big as it seems to be 60 billion for this quarter so you know that that's kind of clothes going on a 250 billion dollar run rate for DMV across 1p and 2p with witches pretty interesting if they, give him a solid Q4 you may start to that I don't think they could crush 304 the year but you will Q4 would be the first hundred billion dollar quarter I think they could do that this year pretty easily unless things really slow down. Jason: [14:51] And but you definitely think of their annual DMV is bigger than than the 60 times for right cuz the Q4 would be so much bigger. Scot: [14:57] Absolute other kind of 260 is coming out pencil and if you just kind of assumed the same mix as last year. Jason: [15:11] Which is a pretty big retailer. Scot: [15:13] Yes that's a very large retailer that's a global number I always get asked that AWS cloud computing grew 47%, I was she was actually expecting a lot bigger so down there's a lot of pricing battles going on here between Google Microsoft and Amazon so that was good and margins held up nicely and that was one of the big treaters to. Earnings beat people expecting the cloud computing margins to be under pressure the biggest surprise in the quarter is. Amazon in their annual report started to break out the revenue from Prime, no some other stuff in there so it's a bit of a noisy number but essentially you can kind of make some assumptions and get close to a nun Amazon prime number so the big surprise they call that retail subscription. And I did that run you jumped 52% year over year, now what's interesting is about a year ago is when they introduce the ability to buy Prime on a monthly basis and then a little bit later they broke out the video so you can just do a video subscription, So currently with this report. Just yesterday consumer intelligence which is the surveying company and you and I are a little skeptical on surveys I think this is directionally interesting they estimated there's no 80 million Prime users and that that number, is up to ex from 2 years ago which would imply 2015 was 40 million and a lot of washing hands when they pick the. Pick through this retail subscription or they get to about the same numbers and it's about 60% us 40% International so that would imply about 45 million homes in the US which is. [16:52] Pretty darn impressive other things that this report highlighted was that they sales that they. Amazon gets from a non Prime user is about $700 a year and Prime user spend about twice that it 14 or 1300 year also interesting Lee the survey picked up that now about 25% of users. I use that new monthly program which is 1099 and I think most of those we knew because if you were in the annual you probably wouldn't downgrade to the monthly useful to Auto renew setting Prime by the fire is. Prime has surged by. Coming out this monthly program generating at least half of that 55% growth I imagine his come from you folks that are joining the program and gets washed you excited is there was some concern that. The way the Census Bureau breaks up. Household incomes you're the stop here that's over a hundred and twenty K and it would have felt like that was it like 80 or 90% saturation so I think what gets people excited is this 1099 monthly plans seems to, pulling people down kind of more towards that Walmart consumer which I think is more of a 67 TK kind of household income so that was pretty interesting. Jason: [18:04] Yeah it's it's fascinating the. I think I was another report earlier in the month that was kind of interesting that was looking at the habits of Prime members and I think there been this assumption, the Prime members were super loyal in the ones you got locked into that $99 that you wanted to get as much value from it as you could so you. Aggregated all your shopping on on Amazon and what this study showed was. They know that Prime customers are more voracious e-commerce Shoppers overall and that well they have a much bigger spin on on Amazon the nun Prime members. They still use multiple other retailers and spend more money over all men so I don't know if that's how accurate that is again like. You know somebody surveys are not very big numbers of consumers that they're making big inferences from. But if that's true that's pretty interesting cuz I feel like a lot of people have felt like the prime is a true walking program. [19:09] You'll just have to take my word for it or read the show notes yeah the. So Scott like one of the things whenever we talk about Amazon picture go to a retailer they like you see their eyes roll in the back of their head and they go yeah yeah yeah but you know Amazon doesn't have to be profitable so it's not fair for us to compete with them because we do. Scot: [19:31] Yeah. [19:34] You and I both work hard to dispel this one so so just kind of put it to bed that's truly faults to Amazon's been profitable, as an entity for the last quarter so that's two years and that you would for Amazon is a preconcerted number, kick some ass kind of conservative accounting treatment that you look at and actually at Amazon if if you start 3D space your letters we don't have time to go into it that's right and what they really look at is free cash flow generated by the business. So another thing that they break apart is this is kind of unique it's their own measure. [20:12] Tom is call CSI and its operating income for a business you could essentially so. So it's call Consolidated segment operating income and she's actually where they say it looked the retail business did this and the non-retail visited that so it's wait for them to come out with a little. Give you some idea of what component is your profit so. You're a lot of folks say well okay yeah sure their probable but it must be Amazon web services this doing it all eight eight of us is quite probable. But the North America retail businesses profitable to it. The generated 1.84 billion in cash this quarter just can't put a number on it now the one thing you can't peel apart from there as the marketplace so you could argue with the marketplaces hearing all that profit I would probably actually, but I don't think it's. [21:04] You can't unfollow the marketplace in retail at this point just say well what's the 1p business making but you know that already we get it its profit the retail part of Amazon's business is Prague. [21:17] Cloud computing possible and you get free cash flow. On a trailing 12-month basis which is what they like to look at they generated 10 billion dollars in free cash flow so so I think these numbers are at a scale that. It's hard Reef you that Amazon's prov1 and doing quite well on the bottom line. Jason: [21:37] Yeah which is crazy of one of the things on the earnings that is that they're there shipping cost went up by a billion dollars so they spent 4.7 billion Justin shipping and to think like. There their profitable and potentially getting more profitable with that come investment is amazing. Scot: [21:56] Yeah and then um. Returning service internet number and with that number you saw is like just the cause it doesn't have the offsetting revenue from Prime that goes against. Set an and fees from sellers actually knocked down by about how this is the actual true net cost. Jason: [22:17] Interesting okay the other thing I heard a lot of a sort of squawking about it. How well a wso doing versus its competitors so obviously it is the 800-pound gorilla in cloud and certainly. Oracle and Google and Microsoft have an IBM of really. Shirt of targeted they're much smaller but at the moment they're growing faster than AWS is because there's so much smaller and I I know. Earlier in the month the Oracle team was like kind of taking some shots at 8 of us and talking about how much it was. It was its growth was slowing down. And I wire you know they thought that they had a better cheaper solution than Amazon and then that I noticed the Amazon sort of took the bait and refuted a lot of that in the. This weekend I think I saw the president of AWS coming out with some quotes talking about how. The the old Oracle model of walking you in the mediocre Services doesn't work anymore and that you talking about enough. An unhappy a lot of Oracle customers probably where that they were locked into this database for all this sort of time. So I always have a good trash talk but it is interesting it does feel like. [23:42] Not only is Amazon winning at 8 of us but they're starting to add more Enterprise type software and kind of higher higher level software to the stack that feels like it's. It's more writing oracles kitchen so let you know they have a very credible database offering news that could help you avoid you having to pay Oracle for a database for example. Scot: [24:01] Yeah one of the things that makes a whole apples and oranges is I know Microsoft. They switched everyone in office over to that Office 365 and they count that is cloud Revenue so it's kind of a little apples oranges where Amazon's cloud is really. The pieces of. Buy at the Lego blocks of cloud in other people putting applications in the bucket so either way so just put a number on it came in 6 billion I'm 16 billion, in a world of software that is a big business and as we mentioned his growing in north of 40% which is not too shabby and it has. [24:45] Amazing margins which is nice. Jason: [24:48] Yeah it's a it's a certainly impressive to have these two huge huge growth engines in one company makes you wonder what which which one of those the investors are investing in. Scot: [25:04] People ask me if I think they'll split it out in and I really don't because eight of us is the operating system Amazon runs on and a lot of. Cool new features they're coming out with have been. Computer Bates internally through it for for Amazon's retail business and they would have come up with those ideas if there were two separate companies so I actually am concerned on that part I think they love having other because, the surgery would not having separate. Other big Amazon used iPad I'd ask you about is the echo look so I want to just grab that for folks that may have missed announced it and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on them. Jason: [25:45] Yeah yeah today announced a new piece of Hardware today which is called the echo book and then start the next Generation Echo it's it's $200 that has all the features of the traditional Echo but it also has a camera in it, inside the the use case that they're touting is that you would put this in your closet or in your bedroom or wherever you get dressed and in addition all the traditional Echo features, you can instructed to take a picture or a video of you and so what this would let you do as I get dressed in the morning try on an outfit. I have Echo take a picture of you and then you can leverage this other service that Amazon launched about a month ago that I think we briefly talked about on the show called style check which is. Where you upload a picture to Amazon and a human stylus that works for Amazon looks it. That picture and give you advice about like give you sent pictures of two outfits will tell you which outfit they think looks better though give you fashion advice like human curated fashion advice and so you know now it seems like, they're making it much easier to use this style check by by putting this camera in your in your closet or in your bedroom. I personally think this is a super interesting Trojan Horse so. [27:07] The more information you have about consumers fashion habits and what they actually use versus Buy, the better recommendations you can make for a close in the better close you can actually design for those customers you know fashion is such a trend based business and so many apparel companies have lived or died by missing trends. If you're a fashion company which Amazon aspires to be and you have a camera in the closet of potentially millions of consumers. [27:39] You're guaranteed to be the the most on Trend you're guaranteed to spot the changes and behaviors and more exciting. You're not getting the stated behaviour you're not getting these like. Like a sort of artificial new trends that that the designers make when they when they go to Fashion Week every year, you're you're seeing the actual clothes that consumers where and that's a big deal because a lot of consumers buy clothes put in their closet and never where I'm so knowing what the real preferences are. A potentially give you a huge leg up in selling and designing fashion and frankly it also potentially has some really utility for consumers to help steer them two words. The gaps in their wardrobe or the things that they gravitate to and you know maybe I buy a lot of colorful shirts that I never wear them in and so you know Amazon could potentially. Remind me of the shirts that I'm more likely to really wear for example so it's it's potentially very interesting and it potentially is a super valuable new data source for Amazon if they get a lot of people that use this. Scot: [28:44] Yes reaction to it is really fascinating because every dude I know. Doesn't get it off then like I thought it was April Fool joke this is crazy why would a man uses every woman. Pirate in women I chatted with about it they're like that's pretty out that work what kind of recommendations would they make you know that's handy I don't have a full length mirror. The factor could do a video of you turning around and see that outfit kind of a let you know the 360 view of Elf it kind of reminds me, when I watch the little promotional video reminds me the magic mirrors you talk a lot about you know where you know they're more touch screens and things with the gym I do the magic mirror is to. [29:29] You see how an outfit looks and then say Oh I drive another top and then your interactive leave by that actually even better in some ways cuz you get the stylus component and the Machine. Jason: [29:40] Absolutely in the magic mirror like that's a really expensive technology and you put it in this dressing room in in a fashion apparel store and it's. It's a real challenge because. You know of a hundred people that walk in that store only 25 of them are going to walk in the dressing room and only five of those are going to actually use the magic mirror so you bought this really expensive piece of Capital Equipment that only touches a small percentage of the consumers in your store whereas, this Amazon solution is 200 bucks in it potentially touches that customer 365 times a year so. Like I think it's it's a similar use case but dramatically more valuable than the in-store stuff that you see people experimenting with. It's funny you mention that the gender divide like you know certainly when you see this you think about things like Stitch fix which is largely focused on women and and you know, that they've always doubted that they have this Advantage from seeing all these women's preferences and their reaction to the outfits that the stylist curate in that they use that data to design their new clothes, well like this is sort of that model on steroids so you know you could have Amazon collecting much more data, I was a much better bigger data science team leveraging that day though so that's super interesting. An agenda divider was funny I think I had a debate on Twitter with our mutual friend David and he was taking the under on this he's not super excited but you heard it here first I've already you know. [31:15] Put in my request to be. To be able to buy one and you know if I do buy one will see if a year from now if if I'm more fashionable than David cuz right now I feel like he has a pretty commanding lead over me. Scot: [31:28] Is going to race to the bottom there I don't know. Jason: [31:31] Yeah it's it's important if it's a reasonable goal post. Scot: [31:36] When I when I first saw just the device and before I saw the video I thought wow that could be really dope. [31:44] I thought it'd be more like a Dropcam competitor are they called the nest camera now because, are the nest cameras nice and I used one but then the thing it's a consoling you learning it I like, some ocean looking like a tree wiggle and is totally useless to the image recognition and the Machine morning on its not very good so when I saw it I thought it came with a voice interface and the motion-capture to be really amazing so I actually have multiple uses for the thing because having it is kind of a monitoring camera, it's also like an actual to me. Jason: [32:18] Yeah and another use case we've heard a lot of talk and chatter about is a. Speaker phone or video conferencing phone so you know this this Hardware you could certainly do either those purposes so you can imagine. You get that same Hardware can be used for a bunch of different uses use cases and they could just add new skills and add new features, to Hardware all the time as as they already do when the echo one thing it was interesting to me about the hardware. And they say has the same feature set as the echo, you know our listeners will remember there's at least there's there's more than two but there to sort of ac-powered Echoes there's the Echo and the echo dot in the big difference between those two is the, the high-fidelity speaker in the Echo and I think the echo was a hundred and eighty bucks when it first launched as that. Am I am I remembering right now. Scot: [33:12] It's still one of the other goes 199 and bumped. Jason: [33:15] Solange the 200 is done a 180 so this device if it has the same audio in it that the echo has in it then they squeeze the camera in there are basically the same price. So I'll be curious if they. If they did any concert options to the audio to help before the camera or or how that all that all worked out what is of Interest. Scot: [33:39] Did you see they did a over the air update for Taps and now you don't have to, press the button for to work so they will somehow saw the battery problem that originally, originally the use case was you'd hold down this button and you had to do that because it was battery operated and because it's listening to the lot of battery that that's kind of what that would do this, weaker so they run out an update to that to be a basic enhance that device so that that's no longer necessary about that was pretty nursing at its Eli news about that. Jason: [34:13] No I didn't hear a lot about it and what was passing it means there's a. That is played out in the phone world right and in so they're there are on it it does take a lot of battery to listen all the time and so for example that the Apple iPhone you can activate Siri without pushing a button that only when you're plugged into AC. [34:34] So like when you're in your doc at night for example there are some Android phones that listen all the time and take up very little battery but the way they do that is they actually have a dedicated ship that's a. In a single purpose chip is designed to be very little power and listen for that activation work and so you go I thought makes perfect sense that they could build a new that I can. [34:59] Can listen all the time because I had a new chip in it but the fact that they were able to add that feature just in software is pretty interesting. [35:08] Exactly and then the other thing and that you know haven't talked about how long they been working on this or any of those things but the one thing that done on me. Almost every apparel manufacturer I've ever worked with we've talked about closet closet analytics and we talked about the benefits of putting a camera in the closet and understanding more about half consumers are using the product in you talk to him about. Like having those devices for focus groups and test markets and panels and things are making it, a widely available consumer product and I probably didn't talking about that idea with a pro manufacturers for 3 or 4 years and it's, it's frankly probably on a lot of the pro manufacturers road maps but I'm guessing that the Amazon decided this was a good idea. In a much shorter cycle and while everyone else just talked about it and kind of put it on the back burner, these guys very quickly just did it and they're putting it out in the market and you know maybe it'll be successful and it'll be a big story we're talking about any year maybe it won't be so it'll be the next fire phone and David will be right and now they'll quickly learn from it and. Did it before they wasted too much money. A sport that's kind of the theme of Jeff Bezos shareholder letter but I do think the fact that they just put something out like this when so many other people have thought about it and talked about and not taking action is, one of the you need to find any characteristics of Amazon to me. Scot: [36:33] No use case I wanted to ask you out cuz I don't know a lot about it is fitment because it seems like if you've got a camera there you should be able to do some body measurements and say to someone, you know since imagine this thing's been watching you try on 10 outfits and then now you say hey order me a small t-shirt that says, hey you know just so you're aware I check the measurements and I don't think this is going to fit you don't you think that they could get smart enough to do measurements. Jason: [36:59] Absolutely interpointe like that apparel returns are very high and returns are super expensive returns are super expensive even for Amazon so anything you can do to, reduce returns by getting that are fitment is is hugely valuable there a couple of vendors out there the try to do fitment with a 2d camera and you know that they can do it but I expect that it's. Pretty and perfect there's really interesting fitment you can do with a 3D cameras and, from and we don't know yet what's really in this this new Echo device but it sounds like it's halfway between a 2D and 3D camera so what it sounds like is it only has a single in single camera but then it has a separate infrared. Rangefinder so that it can measure the distance you are from the camera and that that allows it to get more accurate sizing information about you. [37:58] I'm so potentially it it it absolutely could have a use case in fitment. Scot: [38:02] Yes winterson to see what direction to take this thing. Jason: [38:05] Yep again you know that was a super interesting product. You know I don't think much of people are using it as a high-volume e-commerce ordering machine and so you don't have anything you don't look at that and say hey is, are these kind of cancer my tracks going to be a third a third big business for Amazon in the long run but when they start moving those those things from your kitchen, to your closet that they may have found some real use cases where where this kind of artificial intelligence can really even potentially Drive. Actual e-commerce revenue for Amazon then I think a couple other little news things in the Amazon world. I was actually just sit in a bee last this week in Las Vegas and Amazon had a huge booth at NAB. And the enemy is the National Association of broadcasters so big video production show all the news guys and it reminded me that Amazon had bought this video Processing Company called Elemental in Portland Oregon. I'm inside the booth at NAB is a Elemental AWS and they essentially have him put this this Elemental service on AWS and I sell at the broadcasters to to storm process all their video. And so to me that was just another interesting example of kind of you know Amazon AWS moving from Pure infrastructure to applications or services. [39:39] They also released the The Lex api's this month which are like all the underlying speech and natural language processing. Libraries from the echo or from Alexa you can now use in an Amazon in your own applications. [40:00] And that directly has been competing with like IBM bluemix with the Watson api's and M2 new api's that Google has as well so that was super fascinating. I think we saw this new subscription service from Amazon probably confused most of us subscribe with Amazon it's the. [40:24] Did you read about that at all. Scot: [40:25] Yeah I was I thought it was going to be famous on has subscribe and save wear for loosely, symbols you can buy A110 or need shower you could subscribe and get it coming on a regular basis parties of wanted to be involved in that for a long time so, you say I'm I don't know I'm a, biscuits I want a third-party way of doing that that's not available so I thought that's what it would be but it ended up being really more of an app store kind of things so the bility to manage subscription apps to come like Dropbox or Evernote things that nature so it was underwhelming It's All Digital subscriptions not physical and they're opening up. Jason: [41:09] Accident that's that's potentially a competitor to PayPal I'm in part of. The pay with Amazon Echo System because it turns out one of The Unsung used cases of PayPal is that in our new digital lives we all have these, these digital subscriptions and recurring costs and you know there's a fair amount of what we call breakage in their search subscriptions we subscribe to something forget you subscribe to it and they just keep charging your credit card. On end when consumers to discover that that's super annoying and that you know that they want to save money and be able to manage what they're paying for so what a lot of people do as they use PayPal for all those, does recurring costs so they can go to One dashboard and PayPal and see all the services that they permission for recurring charges, which is something PayPal let you do credit cards don't let you do and then from PayPal you can turn on or off those various subscriptions and so that this this new service from Amazon feels like, a direct competitor with with that PayPal service it feels like it's sort of a centralized portal, for managing all your returning digital subscriptions will hate that's why you have me man. [42:26] I think it was also a new Amazon patent which is pretty interesting and particularly in light of The Deco style we're talking about earlier, are the echo look we're talking about earlier rather they have a new patent on for on demand apparel Manufacturing and. You know that's a technology that the apparel manufacturers are all super interested in Adidas has some pop-up stores where they make your sweater in the store there's a, a store in Boston called Supply Depot that make the light high-performance will Blazers on the man in the store with ease. Today on demand weaving machines and now you know it looks like Amazon is investing some IP in being a leader in that space as well so it just seems like. Another Vector where Amazon is very clearly investing in fashion before the private labels in the Echo look in the photo studios that they've been building and and Union hours to see some interesting patterns in the space as well. Scot: [43:30] The song Come Along the seam I saw that there's rumors that they're going to be coming out with an office competitor so, hosted, young sweet, thing I don't have any idea if that's real or not but sorry about that thinking that was pretty nice it would sit on top of AWS, it's interesting in that. Could you maybe I could so down that. Microsoft cloud growth in your Google's invested really heavily in their their G Suites so maybe it's a meter guy shoot a shot at the by there and then the last piece of Amazon news that is interesting is. Channel measures had an office in Australia for a really long time very active e-commerce Market there there's really no competitor to eBay so you Bay pops up in in Australia they do really well there, and I just rumors that Amazon is going to be there for 3 years, and it looks like it's official there was a newspaper interview with an Amazon head of Australia and he said yeah we're going to become, coming out in the summer so that's exciting for the people down under that they're looking to get involved in the Amazon ecosystem imagine they'll be a third-party offering and that kind of thing so competitive waves going to hit their pretty hard. Jason: [44:45] Yeah it happens that may be a great opportunity for the channel advisor to host a Jason and Scott show in Australia. Scot: [44:54] Yet you say that I've been there and that flight is really really really long so I'm not any love to fly but that wouldn't break you I don't know if it's like a 24-hour flight it's it's brutal. Jason: [45:05] At those lights are the only reason I ever get to the bottom of my inbox. Scot: [45:09] Yeah it's different in boxing her flight and then if you've watched every movie you haven't seen in the last 3 years and then you walked up and down the aisle 80 times and you're looking you're still got another 10 hours. Jason: [45:20] Yeah usually causes Strife with my wife as well because it's all and never to be forced to watch some movies that we had intended to watch together. Scot: [45:29] Yes. Jason: [45:39] So some other exciting news and e-commerce outside of the Amazon Echo System there was an enormous acquisition this month than I think in fact is the largest acquisition ever in the e-commerce space. Scot: [45:54] You can have in the theme of jet Walmart and where. [45:58] Where the incumbents are saying hey we got to acquire something was really going to get dramatic change in the pet category PetSmart acquired chewy.com, that's not shoebacca it's more a chewy for 3.35 billion dollars making it the largest e-commerce acquisition today, interesting there is a lot of these e-commerce Acquisitions of gone for kind of 1 x Revenue so the rumors are that she was closing in on a billion-dollar and rate it so this would put it in over three, Exxon Road him so this is a really good outcome for the industry to have, AOA really quality exit equality buyer and hopefully denigration will work in and this could I'm not familiar with the know what's going on with the pet guys as far as their e-commerce things but it is friends easily zombie Channel guys have been struggling so for this whole your help, the accelerator e-commerce efforts as well. Jason: [46:57] Yeah and you know that we've talked on the show before about this this theoretical Tipping Point in every category where when you get to about, 20% of category sales being on e-commerce that it becomes hugely disruptive to the the Legacy businesses and I haven't seen recent data on the pet category but I have a suspicion that might be one of those categories that the, you know has recently crossed over that 20% threshold in so that, you know that may have made it more of an imperative for one of the big brick-and-mortar players touch to invest in a solid e-commerce offering you know even fact. That that category is really getting disrupted by e-commerce. Scot: [47:40] How about them so we talked a lot about Walmart on the last show they have gone on a kind of acquisition spree any other Walmart news you want you've noticed. Jason: [47:51] Yeah so I think the Acquisitions have continued or at least potentially are continuing the they purchased at URL they purchase shoes.com, and I don't as I sit here I don't remember what the price was I think it was a couple million bucks was it three million bucks so that. [48:10] I will put it in the show notes I apologize for, for not having on the top of my head but that was a pure URL that they purchased and you know one of the first Acquisitions they made in Marco where is here it was this shoe company shoe by and so they they bought shoes.com and they redirect it all the traffic to shoot by, so you know that that was the only true acquisition we've seen, other than we did read on recode a rumor that they are looking at both of us as well and so that that would be a super interesting acquisition of that proves to be true. Scot: [48:48] Yeah be a great brand kind of have an exclusive on and so a lot of interesting things there we have the side benefit of housing Nordstrom doesn't Nordstrom carry bonobos. Jason: [48:59] They do I think it could be one of those good news-bad news things for Nordstrom I believe Nordstrom is a significant investor in bonobos. [49:07] So if the valuation was good you know nor some can make some cash out that acquisition on the one hand and potentially lose the product line on the other hand but not necessarily right like. I don't know what Walmart with Julie about going to go see if they would let Nordstrom keep keep selling it or not yeah. Into speaking Walmart or a couple other interesting things going on at Walmart. Walmart launched this new innovation incubator that they call story which was kind of the original test or for Walmart that Sam Walton ran, what store number 8 in San in San Bruno they're open this new lab and they've called it story. And the big news was that they got a Jenny Flies who was the founder of Rent the Runway to be the 1st. New startup in the incubator and it sounds like she's developing some New Concept around personalized shopping and doing it for Walmart. Scot: [50:10] And then that's what it is it's a Super C. Jason: [50:14] Only the very kind of something focused on personalized shopping in announced a ton of detail about exactly how the incubator will work so is, is it an incubator that Walmart is investing in and they own a piece of the startups and the startups aren't. Exclusive Walmart so it was Walmart just investing in this and, James lunch and company that might not sell through Walmart or is it Building Technology exclusively for Walmart unite I don't think we got we have that level of detail but I will say. It's just kind of an interesting diversion at the moment you see Walmart investing in new innovation capabilities and doing things like, like the store and you know frankly getting a big-name entrepreneur like Jenny involved I'm is all pretty credible and at the same time, you know we're reading about a lot of other retailers and most notably Target like walking away from a lot of their Innovation investments in a day, they have these Concepts stores that they cancelled they had this project goldfish that we were super excited to figure out what that was and that you know they cancelled that and let the. The The Innovation fellow that the that was involved in that project leave and then I think this week we read that, OKC car all who was their Chief Innovation officer is leaving, so you know on the one hand you have had some retailers that are struggling and look like they're really you're tailing their Investments and Innovation and on the other hand it seems like Walmart's really Double Down. Scot: [51:42] Other interesting Walmart stories was just had Mark Lori written all over it that if you for select items if you. Order them online and have them delivered to the store for pickup you actually say if you know somewhere between 5 and $20 so that makes a ton of sense as it's cheaper for them they save on the shipping cost so they should pass that on to the consumer that was one of the Hallmarks of the jet system sale, that'll be interesting doing that's a little weird about it is if the. Is the imagery you're buying online is also in the store then you don't get a disc if it's already in the store that you don't get a discount so that they just feel weird. Is consumer to kind of be like well why are you just coming the stuff that's not in the store at United just to see how it plays out. We'll see how that goes. Jason: [52:31] Yeah I am in very mixed emotions about that offering which I'll get to in a minute but I was also just sort of interested in the industry reaction to this announcement so it was sort of very binary I saw a bunch of Articles from people that are like man this is super smart and Walmart celebrity you know they're there advantages to try to compete with Amazon and and Mark Glory super smart and this is a good aggressive move and then I saw a bunch of other articles that are like, you know this this is rearranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic and you know this is a silly thing that isn't going to move the needle, and you don't why it why are they doing things like this when they need to reinvent the customer experience to compete with Amazon did you, do you like you come down on one side of that other. Scot: [53:19] I can come back to the user experience in just kind of you know how do you explain to people that you're going to save money on this thing cuz it's not in the store but this one it's in the store you're not going to see me on I'm really curious to see how they figure it out. [53:34] Is it from consumer protective it's not too. Jason: [53:36] That's exactly my problem right like you're balancing two things customers want to save money for sure and you want to, it if there are efficiencies in encouraging the customer to one Behavior versus another you you certainly want to encourage them to the more efficient behavior and pass the savings onto that customer right like so I certainly agree with that sentiment and I think that's the, the underlying principle behind jet and I agree with the sentiment on jet as well but the, the user experience that gets manifested as a result of this is. Complicated and I think another big Trend in adoption is consumers are looking for simpler lower friction interfaces, and you know a bunch of the most successful products on the market right now we're out our successful. Largely just because they were a better simpler interface for a service that consumers were already used to so it like I would argue that, you know Hoover's Prime right now he probably the taxi was it's a better user experience for the same same sort of service in lower friction and Shear point. When in every product you put in your shopping cart has a different value prop and a different in a preferred delivery mechanism based on the cost to Walmart and whether or not it happens to be on the Shelf in which, which up for filming Center in happens to be in an all those sorts of things like I think exposing all that complication to The Shopper is potentially problematic and I would argue it was problematic on jet as well and so. [55:09] You know the magic question is. Is there a way to to greatly simplify that not expose all that complication and supply chain ugliness to The Shopper but still like in Courage The Shopper to do what's in the best interest and save money. [55:28] And so I guess time time will tell on that one I think that they had exactly I sent them it but I think there's enough potential to improve the user experience to do it. [55:42] Good deal and Scott with that it is happen again we've we've wasted a perfectly good hour of our listeners time, so I want to thank everyone for tuning in it's been great to catch up with you after a couple weeks and I'll remind everyone to. Subscribe and write a review on iTunes. Scot: [56:04] Yep that's one person that's all the news we have this week. Jason: [56:07] Until next time happy commercing.  

How can you use mass hypnosis to control 60,000,000 people so they vote for you to become the leader of the world? Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, knows the answer and has known it for years. So I called him and asked. I needed to know. He told me how Trump won. And he told me how anyone can use these persuasion techniques to improve their lives. What if you can get people to do whatever you want just by using the right words and subtly hypnotizing everyone you meet? It sounds like a science fiction novel. But it's true. It's what happened, and it happens every day. Who are the victims? You're the victim. Scott Adams predicted in September 2015(!) that Donald Trump would become President because, "he is the best master persuader I have ever seen." Scott Adams trained as a hypnotist and master persuader for years. "Once you realize that everyone is completely irrational," Scott Adams told me, "your life gets a lot easier. "You can start to use the principles behind this to see why people really do things, as opposed to using rational facts, and then use that to your advantage. "Understanding that people are irrational has made my life a lot better." But how did he predict a year and a half ago that Trump would win? I needed to know how. And how I could do it. Trump was the unlikely choice to be President. Just like Scott was the unlikely choice to be one of the world's most popular cartoonists with Dilbert. But we can all learn the skills that Scott learned. Scott heard a story that made him want to change his life in his 20s. His mother had delivered birth to his sister without the use of anesthetics. She was hypnotized. "She felt no pain," Scott said. So Scott, in his 20s, learned all the techniques of hypnosis. "You mean," I said, "You can take a gold watch and swing it in front of their eyes and make them do what you want?" "That has never happened," Scott said, "Except in movies. "What you learn is that basically everything people do is completely irrational. And then they rationalize it later. "Like, they might say they voted for Trump because of his policies but this is just a rationalization. Everyone is irrational and everyone is subject to persuasion." Everything seemed against Trump. But somehow he beat 16 candidates in the primaries and one big candidate in the election. And, Scott says, all the theories as to why he won have been wrong. So I called him up and asked him what happened. And he told me: ----------------- - THE LINGUISTIC KILL SHOT "Trump described everyone using two techniques: - words that had never been used in politics before - words that were visual. So every time you looked at the candidate being described you would look for confirmation bias." Example: Jeb Bush he described as "low energy". "Low energy" had never been used to describe a candidate before so they stood out. And whenever you looked Jeb, unless he was jumping around, you would automatically look for clues that showed he was low energy. Trump systematically did this with everyone who was frontrunner against him, including "Crooked Hillary" which referred both to her legal troubles and the persistent rumors that she was sick. ------------------ - CHARISMA = POWER + EMPATHY Scott said, "Trump clearly had the Power part down. But he was low on Empathy. "So he used polling to figure out what the critical issue was for the most amount of people and came up with Immigration. By going with this issue he proved he had empathy with his base. "Expect him as President to try to show empathy to a much larger group of people." ------------------ - OVERSELLING THE STORY "Trump consistently oversold his point. For instance, 'Build a Wall'." He used hyperbole because it's the direction that counts. "It didn't matter that the facts didn't support him. His base was listening to the direction while all the media was getting bogged down in the weeds. "And in many cases, he would back down. He would recognize if he oversold too much and back down on it. "But again, the media would show his views for free because he was so outlandish and his supporters would note the direction, not the facts." I asked Scott: What would happen to Trump if a "Rick Perry" situation occurred like in 2012, where Perry couldn't name the 3 cabinet departments he wanted to eliminate and that destroyed his campaign? Scott said, "If Trump was stumbling to name the three he would just say, 'You know what? There are 10 cabinet positions I'd eliminate! You probably can guess the ones I'm talking about." "And then while everyone would be scratching their heads trying to figure out if there are even ten cabinet departments, his supporters would be just note the direction." -------------------- - AUDACITY Early on he would say things that were so audacious nobody could believe a Presidential candidate would be saying these things. But people got used to it. It got him free media coverage which allowed him to spend less than half of what Hillary spent. It allowed him to consistently say audacious and outlandish things throughout the campaign without upsetting his base. ----------------- - EMBRACE THE ARGUMENT If you just outright reject someone, they won't even pay attention to what you say. But with everyone he spoke with, he would start off agreeing with them and then start to turn people towards supporting his ideas. Even with Hillary, he would say: "She has great experience" before following it up with, "but after 30 years, what has changed?" --------------------- - TALENT STACK Scott said, "I'm not the funniest guy in the room. And I'm not the best at drawing. But I'm pretty good at both and that's where Dilbert comes from. "It's really hard to be the best in the world at one thing," Scott told me, "But if you are 'pretty good' at a bunch of things and use them together, you can succeed. "Trump has one of the best talent stacks I've ever seen. He's not the smartest guy in the room, but he's pretty good at public speaking, business smarts, humor, hiring and firing, politics, etc." Again, he didn't know as much as the other candidates about every political issue. "Expect him to get to know the facts that are important once he is President. But he was pretty good at knowing what was going on and combined that with the other "pretty good" things in his talent stack." ------------------- - BLAME OTHERS FOR PEOPLE'S SUFFERING "While Hillary was focusing on 'I'm With Her' and 'Let's make history with the first woman President', Trump was focusing on 'Draining the Swamp' and 'Let's Make America Great Again'. These were much more powerful persuasion messages." --------------- DID HILLARY HAVE A CHANCE? How could Hillary have fought better using her own persuasion techniques? "Hillary was running a strong persuasion game in the summer," Scott told me. "She might even have won if she stuck with it." " 'Dangerous Donald' was scary for people. But then her campaign leaked the Billy Bush video and even though it caused Trump to dip in the polls, it wasn't as bad as portraying him as a madman at the nuclear controls. Ironically, that bad news actually helped Trump." ---- My podcast with Scott comes out later today. I wanted to learn other things from him. Like how can I, or anyone, learn these persuasion techniques. What are the easiest techniques to learn? He told me on the podcast. Plus he was very honest and told me a trick he uses with the women he dates. ---- Does any of this mean Trump is going to be good or bad? This article isn't about that. It's just about what Trump, and all political candidates, do to win elections. Trump, according to Scott, was just particularly good at it. "The best I've ever seen". ---- Is it bad that people are irrational? That facts don't matter? Yes. But it's the reality. Our brains were built to hunt for food in scary and uncertain situations. In our more complex society, we still respond to primitive emotions even if they are now irrational. Do I want to be better at persuading so my life is better? Of course. The reality is: I'm easily influenced and have to constantly remind myself everyone has an agenda all the time. I don't think it matters who is President. There are too many forces at work to check and balance everything. But it does matter how I react, how I build my life day by day. It's my choice (I hope) whether or not I have a good impact on others. Or not. Maybe Scott hypnotized me into writing this. In which case, he did an excellent job. ------- Scott Adams Persuasion Books List: (this is from his blog) Chapter 1 - Things You Can Stop Believing The first chapter is designed to make you skeptical about your ability to comprehend reality. If you are already a hardcore skeptic, you can skip this chapter. - An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural - by James Randi - They Got It Wrong: History: All the Facts that Turned Out to be Myths Hardcover - by Emma Marriott [I have not read this book but anything in the genre of “wrong history” will work.] Chapter 2 - Stretching your Imagination These books are selected to open your mind for what follows. If you have experience with LSD or mushrooms, you might not need this chapter. (Yes, I am serious.) -Jonathan Livingston Seagull - by Richard Bach -God’s Debris: A Thought Experiment - by Scott Adams -Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah - by Richard Bach Chapter 3 - The Moist Robot Hypothesis The Moist Robot Hypothesis first appears in my book that is listed below. The idea is that humans are biological machines, subject to cause and effect. According to this view, free will is an illusion and humans can be programmed once you understand our user interface. With this chapter I ease you into the notion that humans are mindless robots by showing you how we are influenced by design, habit, emotion, food, and words. Until you accept the Moist Robot view of the world it will be hard to use your tools of persuasion effectively because you will doubt your own effectiveness and people will detect your doubt. Confidence is an important part of the process of influence. -The Design of Everyday Things - by Don Norma -What Every BODY is Saying - by Joe Navarro -The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business - by Charles Duhigg -Influence - by Robert B. Cialdini PhD -Thinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel Kahneman -Salt Sugar Fat - by Michael Moss -Steve Jobs - by Walter Isaacson [The whole book is good, but look for the part where I appear on Jobs’ radar screen. That’s the part where you understand that hypnotists can identify each other by their tells.] -How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big: Kind of the Story of My Life- by Scott Adams -Free Will - by Sam Harris Chapter 4 - Active Persuasion This chapter gets into the details of how to influence people. My opinion is that you will be less effective with these tools if you do not have a full understanding of our moist robot nature introduced above. -Impossible to Ignore - Dr. Carmen Simon (NEW) -Trump: The Art of the Deal - Donald J. Trump -Win Your Case: How to Present, Persuade, and Prevail–Every Place, Every Time - by Gerry Spence -Awaken the Giant Within: How to Take Immediate Control of Your ---Mental, Emotional, Physical and Financial - by Tony Robbins -How to Win Friends & Influence People - by Dale Carnegie (Better yet, take a Dale Carnegie class near you. It will change your life. Trust me.) -How to Write a Good Advertisement - by Victor O. Schwab -The Secret to Selling Anything - by Harry Browne -The One Sentence Persuasion Course - 27 Words to Make the World Do Your Bidding - by Blair Warren -Reframing: Neuro-Linguistic Programming and the Transformation of -Meaning- by Richard Bandler , John Grinder (This is included for completeness. Much of the NLP field has exaggerated claims, but there is some strong reality at the base of it.) -How to Hypnotise Anyone - Confessions of a Rogue Hypnotist - by ---The Rogue Hypnotist -Hypnosis and Accelerated Learning - by Pierre Clement (This is the school of hypnosis I learned in hypnosis class. It comes from Ericksonian hypnosis. See next book on list.) -Speak Ericksonian: Mastering the Hypnotic Methods of Milton Erickson - by Richard Nongard, James Hazlerig (Erickson was the father of modern hypnosis. Any book about his methods would be interesting.) ----- How good is Scott at predicting things? The attached Dilbert cartoon he drew 26 years ago. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's the dog days of summer. So Scott and Mike decided to indulge in some Citra Dog by Thirsty Dog brewing while talking about Kevin Durant's move to Golden State and whether or not anyone should pay attention to All Star Games.

All 3 of the poems on today’s episode were submitted by poet Brittney Scott.* The Abu Dhabi editors flagged Scott’s previous submissions—we wanted to publish them!—but we moved too slowly. Other publications nabbed them. So Scott sent us another batch of poems to consider and we discussed them on this special edition of “The Slush Pile,” the “all Abu Dhabi all the time edition,” featuring members of our Abu Dhabi editorial board.   All 3 of the poems on today’s episode were submitted by poet Brittney Scott.* The Abu Dhabi editors flagged Scott’s previous submissions—we wanted to publish them!—but we moved too slowly. Other publications nabbed them. So Scott sent us another batch of poems to consider and we discussed them on this special edition of “The Slush Pile,” the “all Abu Dhabi all the time edition,” featuring members of our Abu Dhabi editorial board. These poems set out to both delight and appall. We were transfixed by a dismembered body mauled by dogs in “After the Hunt”; fascinated by the relationship between a daughter and her mother, an “unstable gardener,” in “Daughter of Wild Lettuce.” Plus, Scott’s work stuck an inadvertent chord with our PBQ ex-pat crew. Listen as Scott’s poems help the Abu Dhabi editors make sense of being far flung, of being mildly Dazed & Confused. Brittney Scott received an MFA from Hollins University in Virginia. A finalist in the 2013 Narrative 30 Below Contest, she is also the 2012 recipient of the Joy Harjo Prize for Poetry and the Dorothy Sargent Rosenberg Poetry Prize. She teaches creative writing to adults, Girl Scouts, and high-risk youth at Richmond’s Visual Arts Center. Tell us what you think about Brittney Scott’s poems or anything else you’d like to share with us on our Facebook page event, Episode 9. Sign up for our e-mail list if you are in the area and even if you, too, are far flung! Send us a SASE and we’ll send you a podcast sticker! Follow us on Twitter @PaintedBrideQ and Instagram @paintedbridequarterly. Read on! --MW * You might notice that we posted only 2 of the 3 poems we discussed in this week’s episode in our show notes. This is the first time in 9 episodes we’ve had a poet ask us not to post anything we reject. You’ll have to listen to hear more! Don't forget to subscribe and rate us on our iTunes page!     Present at the Editorial Table: Marion Wrenn Anna Pedersen Ben Hackenberger Samantha Neugebauer   Production Engineer: Richard Lennon   PBQ Box Score: 2=3 -------------------------      After the Hunt Here’s the body the dogs robbed— the limbs strewn around the field like prophecy. She won’t make it, they say. They say the body found in her bed was eaten right through to the floral mattress. They had to shut her eyes because she would not stop blinking up at a bone marrow colored sky, enjoying her party, the confetti of her flayed body. The dogs got sick on her form, the remains of her last meal of steamed artichoke grapes, mercy, and rejection. Don’t they know What’s good for one will poison another? So they say. They say the dogs died in a circle and she rose the next day to bury them and bring flowers to their graves.     Daughter of Wild Lettuce My mother plants snow peas behind the garage. She works around the sink hole that takes dry leaves and garbage all summer.   In her memory, I am an almost abortion. She plants marigolds with the tomatoes, symbiotic bright suns   bursting between the rows. Sometimes she knows, love abounding, sometimes she overlooks   an entire season’s glut, and rot carries us through winter. In the cellar, plastic roses, night crawlers,   unfinished half-hearted projects, the potatoes’ all seeing eyes and me damp through my nightshirt.   No natural light filters in, so I only know the earth’s eternal hour.   My mother, an unstable gardener, tosses spare seeds into barren patches of the backyard. We won’t know until spring.   Sometimes new buds shoot up in the most unusual places, but more often, they don’t.      

It’s always helpful to hear from someone who’s launched a private label product on Amazon from scratch - and has done so recently. Well, even though Scott Voelker has been doing private label sales on Amazon for some time, he’s still starting new products and ideas now and then to experiment and to expand his business model. On today’s episode Scott walks you through his latest product launch and hones in on the things he did differently this time. The results he’s gotten have been spectacular, including ranking his product on page 1 of Amazon’s search rankings in short order. You’ll want to be sure to listen to this one. Why Scott aimed at a product with low reviews but good sales. One of the ways that Scott searched for his latest private label product was to filter in Jungle Scout for products that were selling a decent amount, say 5 to 10 sales per day, but had low numbers of reviews. Why did he aim at products like that? The sales show that the product is in demand to a certain degree, but that the people selling the products are not spending a ton of time promoting their products. So Scott feels that if he’s able to sell the same product but add PPC promotions to his launch, he should be able to get higher in the rankings almost immediately - and his strategy worked. Find out exactly how Scott did it, on this episode. A keyword optimization trick for the backend of your private label product listings. A student in the private label workshop was having trouble getting her product to show as relevant for many keywords, even though she’d filled the keyword area of her listing with relevant keywords. Scott was curious why she wasn’t getting better results so he asked her to show him the way she’d input her keywords. She had placed a comma between every keyword and Scott suggested that she remove all the commas. Within an hour her product began ranking for those keywords and something important was discovered: commas are not only unnecessary in your keyword fields, they actually hurt your listing. Find out more tips like this on this episode of The Amazing Seller. Why Scott launched with only 25 product giveaways. On this product launch Scott decided to try something a bit different than he’d done before. He determined that he’d only give away 25 products to launch and that he’d drip those out at the rate of 5 per day for the first 5 days. This enabled him to monitor his organic sales a bit more easily, determining how many of his sales were organic and therefore gauging better whether he actually needed to continue giveaways in order to get his product ranked as high as he wanted. The result this time was a good amount of organic sales apart from the PPC, which is very good news. You’ll find out more about how Scott did his launch on a new product on this episode of The Amazing Seller. If you’re new to the private label sales world, you need Scott’s free workshop. At least once per month Scott holds a free private label workshop for anyone who is interested in private label sales. It’s an opportunity for you to learn the 5 phases of a successful product launch and to ask questions from Scott and many other experienced Amazon sellers who are hanging out during the course. You can get your free spot in the next workshop by listening to the announcement at the end of this episode, so be sure you do! OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:03] Scott’s introduction to the podcast! [0:30] The way to approach rumors and concerns you hear about techniques on Amazon. [4:17] 4 things that make this product launch successful. [10:17] Scott’s step by step process for launching this product. [11:10] The best way to optimize keywords on the backend of your listings. [13:15] 25 units given away, 5 per day and PPC from day one. [14:30] Options for setting up your pay per click campaigns. [18:14] Creating a promo with no keywords. [22:10] How to use variations of products to create your own brand once you’ve tried a product. [24:48] Why Amazon is a great place to test and verify a product before investing a lot of cash. RESOURCES MENTIONED: www.TheAmazingSeller.com/workshop - get into Scott’s free live workshop and Q&A. www.TheAmazingSeller.comm/185 , www.TheAmazingSeller.com/173 , www.TheAmazingSeller.com/101  - all episodes about launching products www.TheAmazingSeller.com/171 - Jungle Scout interview www.JungleScout.com www.TheAmazingSeller.com/119 - Pay per Click strategies. www.TheAmazingSeller.com/78 - 7 big mistakes on Pay Per Click www.AliExpress.com - China sourcing in small quantities.

New product ideas can come from anywhere. Really, you might be surprised where you discover the next great thing. On this episode Scott’s going to share with you exactly how he discovered his latest product idea quite by accident and how it’s proving to be a pretty good product from the first go ‘round. Listening to this episode will inspire you to think a little more outside the box about your next product idea. So be sure to listen and start dreaming about your next product! There are some things in life Scott said he would never do…   And He’s finally wising up and learning not to say those kinds of categorical things. Why? Because there are so many of those “nevers” that He’s wound up doing. That’s instrumental to this episode of the podcast because He’s entering into one of those areas with his newest product. It’s in the supplement niche, which he said he’d never do and he wants you to hear the story of why he’s going in that direction, how it came about, and how you can learn from his story to find your own new product ideas.   The journey you are on has opportunities at every turn.   You never know what a day may bring. You really don’t. There could be a huge challenge or a massive opportunity, and Scott’s learned that the opportunities will pass you by if you don’t have your eyes open and your brain engaged to see them when they show up. On this episode of The Amazing Seller Scott’s walking you through an example of that - how he came across some situations that have offered up his latest product - and how his situation is an illustration of what you can do to find some great product ideas as well.   The people you meet might be your next source of inspiration.   There are people you meet everyday who have areas of expertise and experience that you will never have. Those people may have something of tremendous value to add to the world but you’ll never know if you don’t get out there and meet them or talk to them. Scott has recently discovered the Dad of his daughter’s friend is a fount of knowledge about things Scott never knew he’d be interested in, and has a lot to offer by way of information and products. So Scott’s investigating the possibility of going in on a product line with him, in the supplement niche. Hear the entire story on this episode of The Amazing Seller.   8 things Scott has learned about tapping into a new market.   When you get a new product idea and it’s in a new market that you’ve never worked in, you need to get some specific things right at the beginning. Tacked on to the end of this episode of The Amazing Seller are Scott’s 8 tips for what you need to do when you’re setting up a product in a new niche. This section is so jam packed with information you will be glad you listened for that brief list alone. So be sure you tune in and grab these 8 great steps to getting set up in a new market.   OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER   [0:04] Scott’s introduction to the podcast episode! [0:37] How you can follow Scott on Periscope. [1:00] The danger of saying “never.” [5:30] How my personal experience led me to the supplement niche. [7:08] A personal trainer I met and the possibilities that relationship has produced. [10:28] How a variety of people have influenced my journey. [22:51] I have no idea how this idea is going to work, but I’m excited. [25:19] The journey you take is filled with opportunities you need to recognize. [26:42] Pay attention to people and possible opportunities. [26:53] Scott’s assignment for you. [28:32] 8 things I’ve learned about tapping into a new market. [33:20] Why I’m beginning to move away from speaking on Amazon only. [34:00] How you can get my free 10 day course. http://periscope.tv www.TheAmazingSeller.com/125 - Scott’s journey into business. John Thornhill Ryan Daniel Moran Pat Flynn John Lee Dumas Chris Schaeffer Jungle Scout www.TheAmazingSeller.com/workshop - Get in on the next free workshop. www.FreePrivateLabelCourse.com

Due to an issue with internet connectivity, Netflix was unable to be reached. So Scott and AJ scour their servers for films we hadn't seen which might be bad. And we found a doozie. Doug Brunell suffered so much for this one. Have fun.                   VBR MP3                                   

Happy St. Patrick's Day! Today is a very special interview with our favorite Irishman, Scott Patrick Neal. St. Patty's Day is a day to drink! So Scott is sharing how alcoholism in his family affected him, and how God spared him from the generational curse of it and gave him an unquenchable thirst for Him instead! Scott's words give hope to anyone struggling with drinking alcohol or those affected by someone else who does. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10

So Scott from the SciFi Diner appeared on this show… Thought I'd share it here. The Ready Room 146: We've All Done the Scarecrow Death Wish. When Voyager premiered, it seemed a given that the fan-favorite Q would turn up on the series. But the producers were cautious in using John de Lancie's character yet […]

So Scott from the SciFi Diner appeared on this show… Thought I’d share it here. The Ready Room 146: We’ve All Done the Scarecrow Death Wish. When Voyager premiered, it seemed a given that the fan-favorite Q would turn up on the series. But the producers were cautious in using John de Lancie’s character yet […]

So Scott has the plague or something so this one is no Scotts allowed! Your bi-weekly dose of a bunch of Montreal geeks shooting the shit is ready for your earholes. I don’t have very much to talk about in[…]↓ Read the rest of this entry... The post 9to5 Entertainment System 56: The World Needs More Tentacles appeared first on 9to5 (dot cc).