Podcasts about asian pacific islanders

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee celebrates AAPINH Month by interviewing Filmmakers: Sara Kambe Holland, Alleluiah Panis, and Kyle Casey Chu, also known as Panda Dulce. We also cover a bunch of AAPINH month events happening throughout the Bay Area.   Calendar of Events Community Calendar May 3 2-6pm Daly City AAPI Fest celebrating local Asian American & Pacific Islander culture in Daly City and the Greater San Francisco Bay Area     May 10 10am-12pm PT Our Heritage 5K 2025  a FREE, family-friendly 5K fun walk/run honoring the rich history and contributions of Asian American and Pacific Islander communities in San Francisco. This scenic route winds through the heart of the city, passing by over 16+ historic AAPI landmarks—featuring goodies, resources, and fun facts about its cultural significance. Expect cheer stations, photo ops, sweet treats, and entertainment along the route to keep the energy high! May 10th is also AAPI Mental Health Day! The Our Wellness Festival, will celebrate mental health, community, and joy. The festival will feature family-friendly activities, carnival-style games, music, dancing, wellness resources, and more! May 23 at 5:30 pm – 8:30 pm Asian American and Pacific Islander LGBTQ2S+ Mixer NJAHS Peace Gallery 1684 Post Street, San Francisco Children's Fairyland in Oakland, and Stanford's Asian American studies department host a series of events throughout the month that we will post in the show notes for you to check out.  Bay Area Public Libraries AAPI Month Oakland public libraries feature reading lists for all ages, a grab and grow seedling kit and events like watermelon kimchi making!San Francisco Public Libraries There will be events for all ages at Library locations throughout the City, including free author talks, book clubs, film screenings, crafts, food programs and musical and dance performances. San Jose Public libraries host a series of events with a highlights being Tapa Cloth making on May 6 and Vegan Filipino Cooking with Astig Vegan on May 7 Berkeley public libraries   CAAMFest 2025 United States of Asian America Through June 1    Transcript: Filmmakers Exploring Boundaries   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:57] Welcome to Apex Express and happy Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Even though the Trump administration has eliminated recognizing cultural heritage months, we are still celebrating diversity and inclusion. Here at Apex Express and KPFA, we believe in lifting up people's voices. And tonight on Apex Express, we are focusing on Asian American filmmakers exploring boundaries. Host Mika Lee talks with filmmakers, creators, writers Sarah Kambe Holland, Alleluiah Panis, and Kyle Casey Chu, also known as Panda Dulce. Join us on Apex Express.    Miko Lee: [00:01:51] Welcome, Sarah Kambe Holland, the amazing young filmmaker, writer, director, here to talk about your very first film, egghead and Twinkie. Welcome to Apex Express.    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:02:04] Thanks so much for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:02:06] So first I'm gonna start with a personal question, which is an adaptation from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. And my first question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:02:19] Oh wow. What a great question. , I think that I represent my family and my heritage. I'm mixed, so I'm half Japanese and half British. I grew up partially in Japan and partially in the States. I feel like those experiences, my family, they make up who I am and the stories that I wanna tell.   Miko Lee: [00:02:41] And what legacy do you carry with you?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:02:45] I think the legacy of my family, my grandparents on both sides have overcome so much, and, , they're a big inspiration to me. Funny enough, my grandparents play kind of a secret role in this film. My grandparents on my mom's side were incarcerated in the Japanese American camps. My grandmom, my British side overcame a lot of adversity as well in her life. , I think that's the legacy that I carry.    Miko Lee: [00:03:09] Thank you. Tell me a little more, what secret role do your grandparents play in the film?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:03:14] all my grandparents have always been very supportive of, my art and my filmmaking. But my grandparents on my mom's side, they passed away ahead of the making of this film. And I inherited my grandfather's car. And that car is the car in the movie that, Egghead Twinkie drive cross country. So I like to think that this is their way of supporting me. I think that they would get a kick out of the fact that their car is like a main character in the film,    Miko Lee: [00:03:41] literally carrying you on your journey. I had so much fun watching the film. Can you share with our audience a little bit about what the film is about and what inspired you to create this?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:03:52] So the film is called Egghead and Twinkie, and it's about this mixed Asian teenage lesbian named Twinkie who's coming out and her best friend Egghead, who unfortunately is in love with her and she does not feel the same. , and they end up going on this cross country road trip to meet Twinkie Online love interest IRL for the very first time. So it's kind of like a buddy comedy road trip movie. Coming of age queer story, , and it's one that's very personal to me, I think is a mixed Asian queer person. This was a story I was drawn to tell because it was a story that I didn't really see on screen when I was growing up.   Miko Lee: [00:04:30] Can you talk to me a little bit more about the use of the name Twinkie, which for many folks in the A API community is seen as a slur, and I know she talks about it a little in the film, but can you share more how you came up with that?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:04:44] Yes, it's a very nuanced thing and it's something I was kind of nervous to tackle, especially like in a comedy film. , but really with the creation of Twinkie's character, , I feel like she's going on this journey to embrace herself as a lesbian, as a gay woman, but then also I think that she's searching for herself as a mixed Asian person. I feel like within the Asian American community, if you're raised here in the US or if you're mixed or if you're adopted, I think that there can be this feeling of not feeling Asian enough. I think the word Twinkie was something that was kind of weaponized against her. Like, oh, you know, you're not Asian enough, you're a Twinkie. And her way of coping with that is to kind of reclaim that word and kind of own that. As her own name.    Miko Lee: [00:05:31] Thank you so much for sharing. I read online that this is the very first feature film to be crowdfunded on TikTok. Can you talk a little bit about, I know your background is in as a social media creator. Can you talk about that journey from social media creator to filmmaker?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:05:51] Yes. Yeah. TikTok and social media was such a big part of getting this film made. Uh, so for myself, yeah. I was a YouTuber before I was a filmmaker. I should be clear, I wasn't like PewDiePie or anything like that. I had like 40,000 followers. Um, but for me at that time when I was like 15, 16, that felt like the whole world. Um, and I think that YouTube was really my first introduction to. Storytelling, but also to making friends with people through the internet. And that ended up being a really big influence on this film because Twinkie is traveling cross country to meet a girl that she meets online. And I think that that is such a common story nowadays. Like people make friends online all the time. Um, and the ways that we find love and community has changed.Because of the internet. Um, so it felt very appropriate that we turned to TikTok turned to social media as a means to raise money for this film. Uh, we did a whole targeted crowdfunding campaign on TikTok and we raised over $20,000 from a lot of strangers that I will never meet, but I owe a lot of thanks to.   Miko Lee: [00:06:53] So now that the film has been going out to different festivals and being screened at different places, have any of those that participated in the crowdfund, have you met any of those kind of anonymous supporters?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:07:05] Yes. And that was crazy. it was awesome. We screened it over 40 festivals all around the world. Our international premiere was at the British Film Institute in London. And it was at that screening that someone raised their hand during the q and a and they were like, I just wanted you to know that I backed your movie, uh, and I found you on TikTok. And that just blew my mind that someone on the other side of the world, you know, had donated whatever, you know, 10, 20 bucks to making this thing a reality.   Miko Lee: [00:07:31] Oh, I love that when the anonymous becomes real like a person in front of you that you can actually meet. How fun. I'm wondering if your use of animation is, , been influenced by your social media background.    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:07:45] Not really. Actually. I think the animation part of this film is just because I'm a total nerd. I really love animation, I love comics. And so that kind of bled into Twinkies character. You know, she loves comics, she wants to be an animator. And, uh, I think I've always been interested in the idea of combining 2D animation with live action footage. I feel like that's something that we see a lot in like children's movies or, um.Music videos, but it's not something that you really see in like, feature films all that often. So I was kind of excited to explore that, and it was a really fun collaboration with myself and our lead animator, Dylan Ello, who did most of the animations in the movie.   Miko Lee: [00:08:28] Oh, thank you for that. I, I, it was very delightful. Um, I'm wondering, because we're, our world right now is incredibly complicated and so conflicted. How do you feel filmmaking can make a difference?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:08:44] I feel like art is more important now than ever because I see even in just this film's journey how art literature and movies, it can change people's minds and they don't even realize that their minds are changing.I think especially with this film, 'cause it's so lighthearted and funny and silly, you'd be like, oh, it's just, you know, a good laugh and that's it. But, but not really. I've seen this film. Open doors and open conversations. And I think that that's really my hope is that maybe, you know, parents who have a queer kid and they're not sure what to do about it, maybe they'll watch this film and they'll be able to talk to their kid about things that maybe they're afraid to talk about. I think that art really has the power to, to change people's minds.    Miko Lee: [00:09:29] Have you experienced that with somebody that has actually seen your film, that you've had a conversation with them where they walked away, changed from seeing it?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:09:38] Well, on a very personal level, um, my parents, uh, are conservative and I think when I first came out to them, it was an adjustment for sure. Um, I. When I initially kind of pitched the idea of Egghead and Twinkie to them years, years ago, uh, as a short film, they were confused. They were like, why do you wanna make this film about being gay? Like, why do you have to make everything about being gay? And that's not really what it was. I just wanted to tell this story.  And it's been such an amazing journey to see my parents like fully embrace this movie. Like they are egghead and Twinkie biggest fans. They might love this movie more than me. Uh, so that has been really amazing to be able to kind of talk to them about queer issues in my identity through the making of this movie.   Miko Lee: [00:10:24] I love that. So let our audience know how they can see your film, egghead and Twinkie.    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:10:31] So Egg and Twinkie is coming out on streaming platforms on April 29th. It'll be on Apple tv, Amazon Prime, uh, any video on demand streaming platform in North America.    Miko Lee: [00:10:43] Yay. And Sarah, what are you working on next?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:10:46] Oh boy, have a big question. Uh, I have a few screenplays in the works, one of which is a time traveling lesbian rom-com. So, uh, I'm waiting for when I get the big bucks so I can make my first period piece.    Miko Lee: [00:10:59] Love it. Sounds fun. , thank you so much for sharing with us. It was such a delight to see your film and I look forward to seeing more of your work.   Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:11:08] Thanks so much for having me, Miko. This was great.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:11:11] Listen to Kushimoto Bushi by Minyo crusaders, a Japanese cumbia band    MUSIC   Welcome back. This is the Powerleegirls on apex express, and that was Kushimoto Bushi by Minyo Crusaders    Miko Lee: [00:15:24] Welcome, Alleluia Panis, the Executive Director of Kularts to Apex Express.    Alleluia Panis: [00:15:30] Thank you. I'm so honored to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:15:34] I wanna talk with you about your film, but first I wanna start with a personal question, which is an adaptation from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. And that is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Alleluia Panis: [00:15:49] Wow, that's deep who are my people? My people is my community. And so it is here in, in the diaspora, Filipino Americans, Asian Americans, and folks of color. And then of course the indigenous people in the Philippines. . What I carry with me and continues to inspire me on the daily is the knowing that we have been here for a long time. Our ancestors have survived eons of whether it's, good times and bad times. And so that keeps me going.   Miko Lee: [00:16:28] Thank you so much for sharing. you have been working in the field for a long time. You're really, , a trailblazer in terms of putting Filipino arts on the map and really lifting up the culture. Can you talk about your new film Memories of Mindanao, where that came from, what it's all about?   Alleluia Panis: [00:16:49] Is a leg of, , Tribo tour, which began in 2002. But actually inspired by my first trip to, , then the wild and being with in 1989 , and, , basically traveling and. Setting myself and my, my, my music and dance company at the time to just be with indigenous people. ,and how profoundly that particular experience really impacted me. For years I've been wanting to like, how can I bring this? Experience or share the experience with other diasporic folks. Fortunately I was able to connect with Carlo Abeo in the Philippines, who's been my tour manager, in 2001. And then in 2002 we embarked on the first, Tribo tour.   Miko Lee: [00:17:50] So this was an effort to really share this powerful kind of artistic travel journey with more folks. Is that right?    Alleluia Panis: [00:17:57] Yes. And it's actually beyond artistic. It's really about recognizing something deeper, right? Because our history of colonization is pretty intense. 500 years and or is it 400 years? Give or take, a century. And so there are a lot of things that had been co-opted. It has been erased, it has been gaslit. And fortunately, I feel like within the culture of the archipelago, there are, and even those. That are, of the, what is considered the colonized people or the Christianized people. there are practices that exist today that might have a different name, um, or but actually is indigenous and so, and only. Could I say that because I was able to really experience and be with folks and, uh, and it's years, you know, it's years of kind of like assessing and looking at you know, different, uh, practices. And so that is so I don't know. It's beyond gratifying. It's connecting. I mean, it seems so cliche. It's connecting with something so deep, you know, it's like connecting to, you know, to Mother Earth in, in that way our, our Mama Ocean. And recognizing yourself that, that you are bigger and have, and has agency, you know, in terms of just. What you are connected to, uh, what we are connected to. Um, and so it's, it's it, of course within the cultural practices, which is artistic practices that we see that connection.    Miko Lee: [00:19:40] You were looking at, the impact of colonization and how arts and culture has really spoke to that or fought back against that in the Philippines. Can you talk about bringing that over to our colonized United States and how you see that playing out?    Alleluia Panis: [00:19:58] Well, I think first of all as, um, as folks of color. And as former subjects of the United States, you know, 40 years of the US and still, still, um, you know, in some ways kind of soft power over the people of the Archipelago. It's, it's really, um, first and foremost knowing or getting that sense of connection and confidence and, um, self-identity. That leads, that would lead us to create, um, in the diaspora. And so what, what this pro with this project, this particular program does and, and I continue to prove it with so many folks, is that it's really. Kind of finding yourself, I mean, that, that seems so cliche and knowing your place in the world and how you are connected so deeply despite all the, you know, like all the brainwashing that you don't know anything. Everything is, uh, you know, everything that, that, that, um, that exists in terms of the cultural practices of the arch of the people of the archipelago are borrowed or, or, um. Basically borrowed or taken from another culture, um, really kind of diminishes that, that colonized thinking. And so I think the power of it is finding your stepping into your own power in this way. Um, and, and, um, you know, it is also not just the current, like in, in once lifetime do you get that abuse or trauma, but it's also all the. You know, the, the, the inheritance from our, you know, from our parents, from our grandparents, right? Great. Passed down the generation and, um, oftentimes construed as the real deal, unt true. And so, aside from the form. Aside from, um, the practices, because this trip is really a little, is is focused more on not learning or like, you know, we don't go to learn like dance music or. Weaving or, you know, design or anything like that. Yes, that happens. We do, we do have workshops, but you know, it's not like it's, it's more like opening the ice of each, you know, individual. I. To the, to the, the whole, the whole thing. What, what is the, the presence of nature is, are they water people? Well, how does the water impact the cultural practices and therefore the artistic practices, um, and understanding sort of like, oh, they, they do that kind of steps with the, you know, flat feet or whatever. Because the sound of the bamboo slats is just. Amazing, you know, uh, under their feet. And so it's not so much that I'm gonna learn, you know, x, y, Z dance or x, y, z music, music or gongs, or, but it's more like w. Through those practices, how do we see the people, how do they mirror our own existence? And what, what we can remember really is remembering, um, what my, what, what we have forgotten or what we know it's true, but we're not sure. So I dunno if I'm answering your question. It's a roundabout response.    Miko Lee:[00:23:26]  I feel like you're talking about how we step into our ancestral wisdom and power.    Alleluia Panis: [00:23:33] Correct.    Miko Lee: [00:23:33] And I'm wondering if you can expand on that,, to talk a little bit more about this time of oligarchy we are living in, which is really built in colonization. How do we both as artists use our superpowers to fight back against that and then encourage other people? How do we use our artist beings to encourage other people to fight back against the world that we're living in right now?  Alleluia Panis: [00:24:00] One of the most powerful impact on me , in experiencing, indigenous practices and culture is the practice of spirituality, the rituals, the ceremonies. There's one specific ceremony from Ana as a magana on ceremony, um, that really, It was just such a profound experience in opening up, my senses and my sense of connection to something larger than this. And, and the EPO and, um, there's several, um. Ritual practices with different names. It's basically similar, uh, practice, uh, is the connection to the five elements and the basic, um, um, and fundamental elements of life. You know, water, earth, wind, fire, and the darkness. The, there's a transcendence. Um. And that that discovery is a, or that connection, um, is something that's, it sounds really woo woo, right? I mean, um, but it really becomes kind of a, a, an experience, an embodiment experience, a belief in your own kind of intuition, your gut feeling. My, uh, my. Um, response, you know, to it, a physical response. And, um, that, that's become like a, a guide for, for everything that I do. And so, um, to me that that is the grounding that, um, has allowed me to continue the work that that. That I've been doing, continue living, period. And so it's really, I think the, a matter of really kind of like, knowing yourself, it just sounds all so cliche, you know? And, and, the power of, Really understanding that you have or I have a depth of connection, that I can draw from in terms of energy and spirit and love, that is beyond kind of the physical, but also the physical. And so for me, that sense of knowing. Is what is allowing me to continue doing what I do despite all the, you know, challenges and difficulties and, you know, the insanity of these times or any time. and having kind of that grounding, I mean, you, you, the, the, clarity, is everything. it allows me to. follow what seems to be the correct route to wherever I was going. it doesn't mean that it's, it's, I'm, I'm not working on it, you know, but I'm also not, not pushing in a way that, you know, I'm, I'm gonna make you believe in me and I'll, you know, like, sort of like, I will tell you what is the right thing and, and, and I will make you, um, agree with me. It, it's, it's not that. Um, I is, I dunno. Is that making any sense? Do you have any other,    Miko Lee: [00:27:24] you totally make sense to me. I'm wondering how people can find out how, how can people find out more about your film and about all of your work?    Alleluia Panis: [00:27:34] Oh, sure. people can find out about, my work and the film through, um, the website. It's, uh, KulArts SF dot org and, most of, if not all of my work, uh, and the work of others, are actually on there. There's a lot of information there. the, the film is gonna be shown at the Los Angeles Asian Pacific, film Festival May 3rd at, uh, a MC. Eight or 14 or is it in, Monterey Park and, folks can actually just find that information on our website as well.    Miko Lee: [00:28:13] And what would you like audience to walk away from your film with an understanding of?   Alleluia Panis: [00:28:21] I want the audience to feel the. Power of being there in TT T is the southernness most islands of, of the Philippines. And, not too many people actually go there. If you have seen the Sam Baja, um, you know, divers, uh, where they can dive for, I think they can stay from five to 15 minutes underwater without any, you know, oxygen or assistance. These are, these are the people who, who, uh, these islands belong to. and as usual, their, you know, their live livelihood is being challenged by everything that's happening in the world. And what the, the film itself, itself, is really trying to put, put the audience within the, you know, like the, I guess the, the shoe of the there and how, you know, their experiences. there's not a lot of explanation to it because we really want it to be a more visceral experience. for the audience,    Miko Lee: [00:29:22] is there anything else you'd like to share with us?    Alleluia Panis: [00:29:26] Let's keep on going. Let's, you know, we, we all, we all need to be in community to uplift each other and keep hope alive.    Miko Lee: [00:29:38] Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing a little bit more about your film and about your work and your connection to the ancestors and the need to move forward.   Alleluia Panis: [00:29:47] Appreciate you. Thank you, Miko.   Miko Lee: [00:29:51] Welcome Kyle Casey, Chu, also known as Panda Dulce to Apex Express.    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:29:57] Hi so much for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:29:59] We're so happy to have you back here, onto Apex Express Land and you have a bunch of new things happening, not just a new film, but also a new book. First off, I'm gonna just start with a personal question, which I ask everyone. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:30:16] Ooh, that's a juicy one. Um, my people, I would say my people are the weirdos and the art freaks of the world. Uh, queer and trans people, Asian Americans, queer and trans Asian Americans, people of color, people from the Bay Area. Um, people who have noticed the boxes that they're in and are pushing the walls and the boundaries of that. I feel like these are the people who really inspire me the most. In terms of the legacy I bring, I am a fourth generation Chinese American, uh, queer and trans femme person living in the San Francisco Bay area where I was born and raised.   Miko Lee: [00:30:56] Thanks so much for sharing. , first let's start with just finding out more about your film, which was based on a true story called After What Happened at the Library. This was a national story, I remember hearing about it, but for folks that don't know, can you describe the real incident that inspired the film?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:31:14] So, I'm one of the founders of Drag Story Hour, which is exactly what it sounds like., drag queens reading stories to, , children and their families and libraries, bookstores and schools. In 2022, I took a gig in Pride Month at San Lorenzo Public Library, , where I was doing a drag story hour and the Proud Boys stormed in. They called me a tranny, a groomer and an it. They wore shirts saying, kill your local pedophile and I had to retreat to the back and lock myself in the back room. They scoured the premises looking for me. , the authorities showed up and didn't get any of their names or information, um, and just. Dispersed them. And after the incident, I came back to the reading room where the children and families were there, but shaken and I completed the reading.    Miko Lee: [00:32:05] Incredibly traumatic. What happened after that in real life?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:32:10] It's funny that you, uh, because the short film is called After What Happened at the Library, uh, for a reason because I feel like it's natural as social creatures for humans to focus on the incident itself. We want to approach people with empathy and we want to, really put ourselves in their shoes, uh, to kind of be there as a support for them. What I wasn't prepared for was the gauntlet of media attention, how people would be coming out of the woodwork to ask me about the situation. They would send gushing praise, hate mail, death threats, love letters, care packages, and this wave of attention. Almost added to the overwhelm of the experience and the fact that I had suddenly become a figure and a lightning rod in a culture war when I just wanted to read a book in a library. 'cause that's what I was doing. Um, and not only this, but in the coverage of the event. Because the authorities were so slow to act on this and only started investigating it as a hate crime after it blew up on Instagram and they suddenly felt the heat of media attention. Um, I felt the, my only recourse was to go to the media and was to talk, and especially as a writer and a storyteller, I felt I needed to kind of sound the alarm because it was pride month.  This was the first, this was the inciting incident of a national, even international anti-D drag wave of right wing extremism. Um, it was a couple days later that the oath keepers were found planning some kind of resistance, like violent insurrection in before Ohio Pride. And so I would talk to these journalists and. I felt in the beginning I trusted them because, you know, I trusted that they wanted to get the word out, that they had the same intentions that I did in protecting my people. And what I found instead was that they kind of almost, they tried to elicit the most emotional response from me, which often involved asking me to relive the most excruciating aspects of that time and that experience. So I had to go back and revisit it over and over again. And when the stories actually came out, I'd found that my story was edited to suit another preconceived formula that they had already pitched a certain idea for how the story was would go. That painted me as this static monolithic victim. And they would just plug in one tearful soundbite and the rest of the story, they could just say whatever they wanted with.And there's a certain violence in that. There's a certain. Greater injustice to going through something like that, number one. But number two, telling your story and having that be distorted to suit other political aims or to, you know, buttress a call for public safety. And that specific dynamic of the direct aftermath of notoriety is what the short film gets at.   Miko Lee: [00:35:11] Oh so you're taking back your own story.    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:35:14] Absolutely. So after what happened at the library, the short film is a very much a radical reclamation of my own voice and my own story. Um, prying it back from the hands of the media and telling it on my own terms.    Miko Lee: [00:35:26] Thank you for that. And how has it been received   Kyle Casey Chu: [00:35:29] So far it's been received very well. The short film World premiered at Florida Film Festival in Orlando. Received a special jury prize for courageous voice in a time of great need, which is incredible. It's our first screening and we already got an award, which is so exciting. It just screened at SF Film on April 23rd as part of the shorts block. SF film is an Academy Award qualifying festival, and it is going to screen again at Can Fest, one of my favorite local festivals, the world's largest Asian and Asian American film showcase it's screening on Friday, May 9th at Kabuki and tickets are on sale.   Miko Lee: [00:36:11] Thank you for that. And can you tell us about your new book? This is very exciting. You have a coming of age story, the Queen Bees of Tybee County. Can you tell us about your book?   Kyle Casey Chu: [00:36:22] Absolutely. When it rains, it pours in creative worlds. I had a lot of irons on the fire and it just so happened that all of them were exhibiting or debuting or hitting shelves in the same week of April, which is last week. The Queen Bees of Tybee County is my debut novel. It's middle grade, so for ages eight through 12, though like a Pixar movie, it's for all ages really. Um, and it is a hopeful drag coming out story about a queer Chinese American seventh grade basketball star. Derek Chan, who is unceremoniously shipped off to his grandma Claudia's in rural Georgia, and she is volunteering for a local pageant. And so he. Explores his queer identity and his love for drag via Southern pageant culture.    Miko Lee: [00:37:09] Ooh, do we see a film of this in the future?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:37:12] Actually, Queen Bees of Tybee County was optioned by Lambert Productions, which put on the Hardy Boys on Hulu. So it is on its way to becoming a TV show if every, if all the stars align, it'll be on TVs in the uk. Fingers and toes crossed for that.    Miko Lee: [00:37:27] Amazing. I'm looking forward to that. Can we pull ourselves out a little bit and talk about the times that we're living in right now and how artists use our super powers to fight back against the oligarchy that we're living in?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:37:43] We all know, or perhaps should know that the beginnings of fascism involve suppressing intellectuals and artistic voices, increasing police presence and trying to maintain a stiff and consistent lid on the voices of the people. And so this type of suppression is happening right now. There are book bans across the country. , there are state and federal efforts legislatively to curtail the rights of trans kids and trans athletes, and Intellectuals, diplomats and scholars are all being expelled or suppressed, and I think something that I've learned is that, and it sounds really cheesy, but that quote is so real where it's like being brave isn't the absence of fear, but it's doing things in spite of it. I know it feels very scary to speak out right now, but now is the exact time to speak out because any. Ground that is seated cannot be taken back. And so holding of the line by way of protest, by way of publication, by way of dissenting is how we crack this. The armor of fascism.    Miko Lee: [00:38:55] And can you talk a little bit about the moment of joy or celebrating joy within the context of the strife that we're living in? I bring that up because , you've given me much joy as part of the rice rocketts and a lot of the work that you do. So I wonder if you could just talk about what does joy mean in the moment like this?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:39:16] Yeah. I think. I have a background in social work and one of the first things that we learned is this is hard work. It is hard to always start on your back foot and to have to argue your own humanity and justify your existence as an artist or as a person. I found myself doing that when coverage of the library incident was happening and. One of the things that they tell you is the way that you do your best work and the way that you best serve your communities is by keeping your own self afloat. And what this means is maintaining a balance. When you have hard work, you also need to reward yourself. You also need to take care of yourself. And I don't think it's enough to just say self-care. You need to expose yourself, and you need to fully embrace the full spectrum of human emotion, which necessarily includes joy. And so. After completing such an intense project, like after what happened at the library, I knew that I needed to engage in something that was hopeful and that really struck the cord of why community is so vital and important, and why social support is integral to all of us thriving. And so the Queen Bees of Tubby County, I was told by a reviewer, and this is my favorite review, they said that it's like Chapel R'S Pink Pony Club. If it were a book. Um, and I'm going with that 'cause I love that. But this story is really just about hope. It's about friendship, it's about, it's about dancing towards the future we want. And I don't think it is enough for us to react. I don't think it's enough for us to strike down. Terrible and horrifying regimes. We also must have a vision for the future that includes ourselves thriving and enjoying ourselves. And I think a part of that practice for me is making art and scaffolding a vision for the future that is positive.    Miko Lee: [00:41:20] And what would you like people to walk away from after either reading your book or seeing your short film?   Kyle Casey Chu: [00:41:29] I think after seeing the short film. What this gets at is whenever there's a flashpoint of a culture war and it's localized on one person, whenever a culture war is personified in one singular person, like for example, ma Moon kil. There's only so much of his life that we get to see, and it's through the headlines and this viral moment of like a flash on the pan. And I want people to realize that the way that you interact with these people in that fleeting moment is going to stick with them long after this moment of notoriety passes. And. To be conscientious and aware of what impact you're bringing to that person because it may just be a moment or a blip in your feed, but the impact is enduring for the person who's living it. And I also want us to be critical of how we consume trauma and violence in the media, and to ask ourselves if. We really, truly need to get all the details if we really, truly need to be put, put that victim in the position of reliving their experience just so we can relive it for a moment. Whereas they will have to relive it for the rest of their lives. And I think survivor narratives and victim narratives are way more messy and complicated and sometimes funny than people give it credit for or realize. And to realize that when you are reading something. That is just one dimension in one shade. Uh, yeah. So that was a lot, sorry. But, um, the other thing is for the Queen Bees of Tybee County. And the reason why I wanted to end on that is because it's uplifting is as dark as the world can be. It can also be as dazzling and bright and hopeful, and that the future that we are fighting for is worth fighting for. And we need to remind ourselves of that. Especially in times like these, and I know it might seem counterintuitive for us to celebrate or to be around each other when it feels earth shatteringly bleak, but it is essential to our survival, and don't be afraid to embrace that.   Miko Lee: [00:44:00] Kyle, thank you so much. Kyle, Casey Chu, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. I encourage people to check the film out and the book out and we appreciate chatting with you.    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:44:11] Thanks so much.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:44:14] Kyle's film will be showcased at Cam Fest, the nation's largest showcase for new Asian American and Asian films, which runs from May 8th to 11th in San Francisco at a time when it feels particularly fraught to express stories from communities of color. Cam is doing what we've done for over 40 years, sharing films from Asian America to a wide array of audiences. It says, Cam's, director of programs, Dawn Young. Watching these stories in a theater full of friends and neighbors is an opportunity to laugh and cry, and ultimately to celebrate human experiences that transcend bounds. This year's festival will return to the A MC Kabuki in San Francisco's Japan town for opening night, and a total of four days of screenings in the historic neighborhood that is undergoing its own resurgence with new restaurants, cafes, and boutiques, highlighting both traditional and youth oriented culture. The Roxy Theater will also host three days of screenings. Cam Fest continues to strengthen ties with other local arts institutions with the Asian Art Museum hosting the Cam Fest gala. Following the opening night film on Thursday May 8th and SF M Om a opening the Phyllis Wa Theater for Mother's Day programming on Sunday, May 10th. Turning a lens on history, whether it's the end of the Vietnam War or the trailblazing women in the Bay Area, offers a chance to reconsider the stories through which we come to understand ourselves. Says Cam Fest program Manager Del Holton, ranging from intimate narratives of family and memory to experimental work that bends the conventions of storytelling. These films illuminate the many perspectives of Asian America.    CAAM Fest 2025 wraps up on Mother's Day with dedicated events that highlight strength and visionary artistry of Asian American women. You can also catch my sister Jalena Keane-Lee's film Standing Above the Clouds at 5:00 PM at the Kabuki. Honoring Mothering also includes celebrating the nurturing of community and pioneering of aesthetics. Cam's final day reflects on the contributions of Asian American women's work while looking to the future of storytelling. Another major multimedia arts, dance and music festival to check out is the annual United States of Asian America which runs through June 1st at venues around the Bay Area. This year's theme Critical Refuge asks us to reflect on our journey as immigrants, refugees, and generations of descendants and or mixed raced people in the diaspora as we seek necessary sanctuary within ourselves and in our communities in times of unrest and uncertainty. The festival will honor a API Arts and Culture, reflecting on where we have been, where we are now, and what our collective future holds, while acknowledging our roots as immigrants, refugees, and mixed race descendants. Also check out the 42nd annual Himalayan Fair in Berkeley's Live Oak Park happening May 17th and 18th. There will be Himalayan Food, handicrafts, music, and Dance. There are so many events happening in celebration of Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Check out our show notes for links to all the wheelchair accessible events In addition to the films we featured tonight, camp Fest and United States of Asian America, there is also May 3rd, two to 6:00 PM daily city AAPI fest celebrating local Asian American and Pacific Islander culture in daily city in the greater San Francisco Bay area.    May 10th, 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM Our heritage, 5K 2025. A free family friendly, 5K fun walk slash run. Honoring the rich history and contributions of Asian American and Pacific Islander communities in San Francisco. This scenic route winds through the heart of the city. Passing by over 16 plus historic A API Landmarks featuring goodies, resources, and fun facts about its cultural significance. Expect cheer stations, photo ops, sweet treats, and entertainment along the route to keep the energy high. May 10th is also a API Mental Health Day. The Our Wellness Festival will celebrate mental health, community and joy. The festival will feature family friendly activities, carnival style games, music, dancing, wellness resources, and more. May 23rd at 5:30 PM to 8:30 PM Asian American and Pacific Islander, LGBT Q2 s plus Mixer, NJAHS, peace Gallery 1684 Post Street in San Francisco. Children's Fairyland in Oakland and Stanford's Asian American Studies apartment will also host a series of events throughout the month that we will post in the show notes for you to check out in Bay Area Public Library News. Oakland Public Libraries feature reading lists for all ages, a grab and grow seedling kit and events like Watermelon Kimchi making. San Francisco Public Libraries will have events for all ages at library locations throughout the city, including free author talks, book clubs, film screenings, crafts, food programs, and musical and dance performances. Highlights for adults include the launch of Corky Lee's Asian America at the main library on May 23rd. The new book features over 200 breathtaking photos celebrating the history and cultural impact of the Asian American Social Justice movement. We've covered Corky Lee's work in multiple previous Apex episodes.    Additionally, four members of the Asian American Journalist Association, AAJA, who cover the Asian American and Pacific Islander News beat will discuss how authentic local reporting happens, important stories they've reported recently, and how having reporters dedicated to the BEAT impacts the A API community on May 8th, moderated by the interim president of the AAJA-SF Bay Area chapter Harry Mock. The panel features Ko Lyn Chang from the San Francisco Chronicle, Han Lee from the San Francisco Standard, and Ravi Kapoor, CEO of Dia, TV on May 25th. The library partners with the Chinese Cultural Center of San Francisco to welcome Curtis Chin, author of everything I Learned, I learned in a Chinese restaurant for a book talk and library popup. For youth on May 25th, join June Jo Lee Food ethnographer and award-winning children's book author for a kimchi demo. Read aloud and krautchy making activity. Experience a read aloud of New Picture Storybooks for Children and participate in a drawing workshop on comics with illustrators mini fan and Sophie Dialo on May 23rd at Excelsior Branch Library. Katie Kwan, who has been featured on Apex dives into the world of comics and zines through the lens of an Asian American artist and educator, and teaches the community how to make their own comics and zines at multiple locations throughout May. San Jose Public Libraries host a series of events with highlights being top of cloth making on May 6th and vegan Filipino cooking with Aztec Vegan on May 7th. Once again, happy Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month from us at Apex Express. Please do checkout CAAM Fest. May 8th through 11th in San Francisco. If you get the chance and you'll be able to see Kyle's film. As well as many other incredible AAPI, histories and stories. You can check out all of that community calendar info in our show notes, as well as information on all of the guests you heard from tonight.   Miko Lee: [00:51:55] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.        The post APEX Express – 5.1.25 – Filmmakers Exploring Boundaries appeared first on KPFA.

Arts and life editor Julia Goldman and arts and life assistant Delfino Camacho join Beach Weekly as special guests to talk about the past and future of AI usage on campus.This week is Trans Week of Joy, hosted by the LGBTQ+ Resource Center. Throughout the week there will be workshops and events every day for trans community building and awareness. Continue to recognize Asian Pacific Islander and Desi Heritage Month, Middle Eastern and North African Heritage Month and Sexual Assault Awareness Month with many more activities.Other events this week include a free Roller Disco at the Student Recreation and Wellness Center from 5-8 p.m. on Monday, April 14. From 4-7 p.m. on Thursday, April 17, the Office of Sustainability & President's Commission on Sustainability will host the 2025 Green Generation Showcase at the Earl Burns Miller Japanese Garden. There will be an Empowering Leaders Symposium on Friday, April 18 from 9 a.m.-3 p.m. The location will only be shared with students who register.Find out more details on all the events listed above through on Events & Orgs app through the CSULB Single Sign On.In other news on campus, the Graduation Writing Assessment Requirement, commonly known as the GWAR, is no longer necessary for students to complete. The test may be reinstated if modifications with the required fee are made. According to the CSU policy, students shouldn't have to pay a fee to take a campus-required test.Actor Eric Dane released his diagnosis of ALS in an exclusive interview with People. Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is a disease that causes progressive paralysis of the muscle and has no cure. Dane says he will continue working as is expected to continue his role on season three of Euphoria in the coming weeks.Last week on Wednesday, April 9 United States Judge Trevor McFadden ordered the reinstatement of the Associated Press in and around the White House. McFadden argues that blocking certain news agencies is "contrary to the First Amendment," citing the freedom of speech and press clauses.A helicopter crashed into the Hudson River killing everyone on board. A family of five set off to sightsee in a New York helicopter tour; however, shortly after takeoff it was reported that the helicopter broke mid-air and crashed into the Hudson River. The family included three young children and their parents who were visiting from Spain.A small plane crash in Boca Raton, Florida left all three of its passengers dead. The crash happened on the morning of Friday, April 11 on its way toward Tallahassee. The assistant fire chief for Boca Fire Rescue said that the crash was likely due to mechanical issues.Host & Editor: Gianna EcheverriaProducers: El Nicklin, Aidan SwanepoelLike, comment, and follow us on your favorite platform for more content!Apple Podcastshttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/long-beach-current-podcasts/id1488484518Spotify⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4HJaqJep02kHeIQy8op1n1⁠⁠⁠⁠Overcasthttps://overcast.fm/itunes1488484518/long-beach-current-podcasts

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express join host Miko Lee as she talks with Asian American theatre artists with works coming up soon. Miko talks with Sunhui Chang and Joan Osato about their world premiere at the Magic Theatre. She speaks with Ethnotech's Nancy Wang and Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo and finally we hear from playwright Jiehae Park on the world premiere of the Aves at Berkeley Rep. Though we may be immersed in a complicated, challenging and very disturbing world, as Grace Lee Boggs said, “A people exercising their creativity in the face of devastation is one of the greatest contributions to humankind.”     Our Guests discussed: April 2-20, 2025 Magic Theatre The Boiling, a tale of american nihilism tickets, wheelchair accessible Joan Osato SFFILM Cedar Road Iyagi Grant Applications:  sffilm.org/artist-development Ethnohtec May 22 Ethnohtec https://sfpl.org/events/2025/05/22/panel-strong-bamboo-3-part-1 Strong Like Bamboo SF Library Koret Auditorium Free https://sfpl.org/events/2025/05/25/performance-strong-bamboo-3-part-2   Coming Up Next Transcript   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:34] Tonight on APEX Express join host Miko Lee as she talks with Asian American theatre artists with works coming up soon. Miko talks with Sunhui Chang and Joan Osato about their world premiere of the boiling at the Magic Theatre. She speaks with Eth-Noh-Tec's Nancy Wang and Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo and finally we hear from playwright Jiehae Park on the world premiere of the aves at Berkeley Rep. Though we may be immersed in a complicated, challenging and very disturbing world, as Grace Lee Boggs said, “A people exercising their creativity in the face of devastation is one of the greatest contributions to humankind.” So join us on APEX Express as we join some creative conversations.   Miko Lee: [00:01:17] Tonight on Apex Express, we have the collaborators behind Magic Theater and Campo Santo's, world Premier of the boiling: a tale of American nihilism. Welcome playwright Sunhui Chang and video artist Joan Osato.    Joan Osato: [00:01:30] Thank you for having us on, Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:01:33] Yes. First I'm gonna start for each of you with a personal question, which is an adaptation from the amazing Chinaka Hodges. And my question for each of you, and let's start with Joan first, is who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Joan Osato: [00:01:49] I consider myself a child of immigrants in this country. My lineage Japanese, Japanese American by way of Hawai'i a lot of my lineage is carried by that diaspora, but also by my history at Youth Speaks for a couple of decades. And so I consider that my family also and Camp Santo.    Miko Lee: [00:02:12] Yay. Love that. And then Joan, what legacy do you carry with you?   Joan Osato: [00:02:17] A legacy of resilience and I know how to farm. I like to think of myself as a gardener and a great farmer. so that's the legacy I carry with me.    Miko Lee: [00:02:29] Thank you so much, Joan. Sunhui, what about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Sunhui Chang: [00:02:36] Well, I'm part of the diaspora, the Korean American diaspora that happened in the seventies. My family immigrated to the island of Guam in 1976, as part of developing the island of Guam. As, you know, the Korean diaspora at that time in the seventies, we were kind of shipped around the world a little bit, for our labor. There's a huge Korean population of workers that also went to West Germany and other places, Guam is not as well known, but it was definitely part of that. So in 76, our family landed on the island of Guam.    Miko Lee: [00:03:11] Wow, that's so interesting. And then what about what legacy you carry with you?    Sunhui Chang: [00:03:16] I think my legacy I have to say is that definitely of the immigrant working class, you know, as with a Korean diaspora, there's some things of, like the East Coast Koreans, as you may know, have a different history of being much more educated whereas kind of the west coast and the Korean diaspora during the seventies towards islands like Guam, we were much more working class. So that is my legacy. I have working class roots that, I never seem to be able to get away from and I don't want to.   Joan Osato: [00:03:47] Shoot. That's the same for me too, my working class roots.   Miko Lee: [00:03:51] So it sounds like you two have some commonalities there and that seem to have flowed over into the creation of this play. Sunhui can you talk about an overview of this brand New World premier, the boiling.    Sunhui Chang: [00:04:05] Simply put, it's a story of a tracker and a tracer, a government team that was formed to track and trace down carriers of the virus called the Boiling. and it actually. starts out as a chase, but what we really dig into is more about, identity, home, what it means to be, what is home and what it means to be, at home, and also, about redemption, you know, through our lives, you know? So it's multi-layered, so it's hard to kind of explain in a log line. but it's a chase story that kind of delves into the characters.    Miko Lee: [00:04:40] And I understand this was inspired by a real news story. Can you tell us about that real news story?    Sunhui Chang: [00:04:46] Oh, yeah. the genesis of this we have to kind of go back to the beginning of the pandemic back to December, 2019. I had just finished a gallery installation in San Francisco and then at the end of that I flew back to Seattle. Now at that period of time, there was this talk that there's this virus that's in China. That might affect us, we're not quite certain, but it could be something that could lead to a global pandemic, but we didn't quite know at that time. But then when I landed in Seattle, March 17th, 2020 was the date that Governor j Insley shut down the state of Washington. So that is a big take 'cause, As you know, we all hunkered down at that point. And then in one of the hunkering down is of course, I was watching the news and one of the news story, happened to come across where they were talking about a Econo Lodge motel that the state of Washington had purchased to turn into a quarantine motel, a voluntary quarantine motel where people who, felt that they were infected could check themselves in, to be evaluated. So the story goes that two people had actually checked into this motel totally voluntarily, but one of them the morning after. And this is captured, with a surveillance video. We actually see this one person walking out of their room at the motel. We see them walk across the street to a gas station with a market. Now the surveillance actually then switches over to the gas station surveillance, which shows him walking to the gas mart, walking inside, making a purchase, and then actually walking out. And then we see another footage of the surveillance that's going from the outside surveillance of the store. We actually see him, walk towards the bus stop, get on a bus. And then just the bus leaves and that is it. And the news story ends with that. They had no idea where this person drifted off to. and for me it just, it had this weird, eerie fascination that just grabbed me. and remember at that time, Seattle was such a hotbed for Covid. It was where the nursing home happened, where so many of the elderly had passed on, and we didn't even wanna secondhand touch a surface, so there was a real heightened sense of alarm that was happening. So seeing this story of this potential infected person just drifting off. And then what made it eerie was that I wanted to see what followed up. So for days after I kept watching the news, what is the follow up? What happened? It was never brought on again. Never. Another mention I. and for me that actually made it even more eerie. So it really sat with me, to the point where I had to actually just write down the first words of my, the first line of my story, the boiling. And the first line was, “Carrier X stepped out of the tightness of his room and breathed deeply the soft drizzle of the Pacific Northwest to cool his body from the growing fever.” So those were the first words that I wrote. and then it was just kind of off to the races 'cause the way I write Miko is that I'm very much organic. I kind of set a story and then I become a vessel of the story. I don't come to the story with agendas or anything of that nature. After the first sentence, it just kind of took a life of its own. So that's it.    Miko Lee: [00:08:18] That is amazing. I did not hear that story. and the real news story. That is wild. That would've sat with me too. Joan, had you heard of that story before being brought onto this project?    Joan Osato: [00:08:29] Well, when we did a reading during the pandemic. I did hear parts of that story, but I think it's also a story that a lot of us can relate to, because like here in the Bay Area, of course, we also experienced severe lockdown. Whereas in other parts of the country, I think that the type of lockdown, although being, you know, trying to be really safe for people also induces this sense of isolation and paranoia. And so wanting to get information about who's getting affected and like, where's it happening? I think that was all like kind of a mini obsession of like. Everyone who experienced the pandemic, you know what I mean?    Miko Lee: [00:09:10] How do you think that pandemic has had an impact on theater and on audiences?    Joan Osato: [00:09:16] Well on the most basic levels, you know, like what theaters are grappling with, just in terms of coming out of and recovering from pandemic, I think everybody understands that, you know, theater in general is struggling because of the changes that happened in terms of, Perhaps what people place importance on the isolation that we went through, the kind of, paranoia about being in groups of people and in space and in community together. And so, that affects, you know, theaters and you can, you can see that since the pandemic some have closed. But I also think that, the effects are also that, groups like The Magic or Campo Santo during the Pandemic, we never stopped working and we just figured out innovative ways to, you know, support artists, do radio plays, do, amalgamations of like filming. And so a lot of us became like very, very adept at different types of media that are theatrically based, like Sunhui's play, but that we had to carry out, like online or, you know, through other types of media.    Sunhui Chang: [00:10:30] I just wanted to add on that is that, the pandemic, you know, there there was definitely things that really affected us as humans in such a negative way, but what I also found admiring was, with Joan and Camp Santo and the artists and trying to find creative ways of, still letting, having an outlet. it really was that the story of the boiling would not have taken place if artists such as Joan and Camp Santo. If they didn't, if they weren't able to pivot and make these kind of online transitions at the moment, such as doing readings and such, cause that's how the story was first brought about. So, in many ways it was hard. But also I do appreciate these artists who have been able to kind of keep going and didn't shut down and kept letting the creative creativity somehow flow. I so appreciated that.    Joan Osato: [00:11:20] Yeah, it was definitely a beautiful thing. And then, you know, Miko, throughout the pandemic, you know, we would have like online viewings of our archives or we would sit with audience members, who were joining us and basically hang out for like three, four hours online. So trying to create the space not only to kind of generate support for artists who are. Completely outta work, but also to, just connect us even though we were. You know, obviously under these conditions where we couldn't see each other in person and it wouldn't have been advisable for us to even try to gather, you know, because, I consider us, you know, in-inside of our community extremely vulnerable. So, you know, just grappling with that tension, was really hard.    Miko Lee: [00:12:09] Yeah. And I kind of hear both of you saying that in those really tough times, there was this push to get more creative, to find more ways of reaching people and, and to look at ways that we can, um, innovate given that, and I'm wondering, given our current political climate where things are changing every hour now. I mean, the first Trump administration, it was kind of every week and now it feels like every hour a new kind of devastating thing is happening. I'm wondering how you both think theater can be used as a tool for social change.    Sunhui Chang: [00:12:41] For me Theater and, and really the arts, what I do love about it, is this really, and I kind of touch upon it with the story and such, and it really hit me during, COVID, during the pandemic, is that it's really for me, what it does is listening.  I know as artists, we love telling our story. We love telling what we see, our interpretations and things like that. but I think what I have really come about with the arts is the fact that I like the other side of it is the listening part, for me with my collaborators, that I have to listen. You know, it's not about just me talking, but just listening. So for me, the theater aspect of it and the art aspect of it is that I hope that, as we go through these tough times, what it really has us doing is listening to each other more. One of the things that I really feel in that way and appreciative of listening is the fact that without listeners, there's no storytelling. Listening is really the foundation of our humanity. You know, I mean, just talking really gets us nowhere. What really makes us move forward collectively is listening.   Joan Osato: [00:13:50] Mm, Sunhui heard that. Yes, I heard that. [laughs] As far as theater and kind of responding to the moment. I think, you know, the type of theater that we embody is always speaking to politics is always speaking to, you know, the culture of the moment and especially it's speaking, because a lot of Campo and the Magic's work is like based inside of, theater companies that live, work, breathe, are about by and for the communities, like in the Bay Area right. So there's just no way of separating the kind of politics from what happens like inside of these plays. For the boiling in particular though, I think there's a lot of stuff that, that people can think about and here inside the play that will resonate with them. One, we're, we're talking about a hypothetical, but it's not really a hypothetical situation about a pandemic, a very, harmful, very urgent, current conditions. You know, when there's no CDC to have, get your information from when there's no public health that's functioning in this country, we can, we can see what happened during the last pandemic and just make that comparison and draw those comparisons, you know, what would happen in the next one. Right. also that, you know, to me and Sunhui, you can totally. speak to this, but to me, Carrier X, the person that represents is this kind of violence and nihilism that exists inside of the, you know, the current, you know, psyche or administration right at this moment. this real like. It's definitely violent to the point of not caring whether people live or die and so I, you know, I think that's very striking about the play and it happening right now as premiering it right now, because I think people can draw a lot of parallels between. Like this personality, this complete disorder that seems to be going on, like not only in American politic, but amongst the large population in America itself. You know what I mean? That kind of disregard.    Miko Lee: [00:16:18] Joan, that is so interesting. I wonder if you both can talk a little bit more about Patient X as this kind of figure of narcissism and selfishness that we're seeing that's happening in our broader politics right now.   Sunhui Chang: [00:16:31] Yeah, Carrier X, he does, you know, he does kind of represent this nihilism of American nihilism, which to me it's really historical and cultural. we could go all the way back to the nihilism of manifest destiny, feeling like we have something to do that it was even, maybe. God's order, you know, a higher order that was given to us. And we have to take on this task and finish the task at no matter what cost, right? By any means necessary in a way. and that nihilism for me, I. historical, but when I see it currently that happens now, is that I see nihilism in the fact that people want to cut off Medicaid, Medicare, these social programs that are not just help people actually are crucial and it's really, it's a survival. So for me, when I see that kind of disregard, yes, it's not this overt violent nihilism, but I do find it to be so nihilistic in the damage that it does to all of us, you know? And I do find That this nihilistic violence, there's two flip side to it. The people who are directly affected, and harmed by it, but also the people who carry it are out, who carry out these acts of nihilism they do get damaged as well. So for me, so yeah, the nihilism, it's taken on a different life, but. It's a part of America and it seems to continuously carry forward through our days.    Miko Lee: [00:18:00] And Sunhui with the intentional characters, the lead being Korean American adoptee, and, the detective being a black woman, and then carrier X being white. Share with me a little bit about the racial element and your intention behind making those characters of those, ethnic backgrounds.    Sunhui Chang: [00:18:20] You know, there was no intention, as I said, I just write very organically. So there was never this thought of, oh, here's the three characters. One's gonna be a Korean adoptee, one's gonna be a black homicide detective, and another's gonna be a white carrier. It was never that I. It's hard for me to explain the process, but those were the characters that just kind of naturally came out. for me, it just felt fitting to it. So, I don't have agendas as I write, as I said, so there was none of that. It was just for me, as a vessel of the story, as a story was coming out, it was just. Oh yeah, this character is this, this character is that, and this one is this. so no intention. But, once those things came alive, then the story kind of, evolves around what's, organically happening. So yeah, there wasn't intent, but at the end of it all, of course, I go, oh, I see what has come about and how the story is so, In hindsight now going, oh yeah, I did this. for me, it feels right in the, in the fact that for me, this is America Miko. To me, I, I don't write with an Asian American kind of pen, or, or a brown person pen for me, I actually first and foremost say I'm an American. There's no way around it. and it's simply put too, is that. I am an American. so for me, these characters are just. Natural. And when I know about me being American and knowing about American history, these characters just naturally fit in, you know?    Miko Lee: [00:19:50] Yep. Thank you so much. I've read that you talk about new Americana theater. Mm-hmm. And also Joan, you were talking about how during the pandemic, you know, everybody's learning new techniques, new ways of storytelling, just because everybody was forced to with the lockdown. Sunhui, can you talk more about what you believe New America Theater is all about?    Sunhui Chang: [00:20:12] For me, the reason why I kind of see it as new Americana theater, first off, 'cause it's, it's American, the stories that come out of me is very American. you know, and I recognize it. And for me, I, it is, this is part of the American fabric, so that's why it's called Americana. And for me, I say it's new. 'cause what's new is the perspective that it's coming out from. perspective, which brings on different characters, a different storyline, you know, different message. So yeah, that's, that's it for me when I refer to it as New America in the theater. It's just that, that it's, it's an American tale that now we've been able to incorporate new voices into.   Miko Lee: [00:20:54] I noticed there's a really large list of collaborators. Of course the two of you, but then there's a lot of other people as well. Can you talk about that creative process, how you all were able to work together, how you made decisions about, oh, this is the part we're gonna use film, this is the part we're gonna use, movement.   Sunhui Chang: [00:21:11] Like I said, it's very much organic. Our third major collaborator is Ellen Sebastian Chang. she is the director of the show, and when me, Joan and her, we first started delving into it, we did. It was just sitting down and talking a lot. Going through the scripts, the different skill sets that we bring in. And really it was through the dialogue miko and of us talking with each other, but also listening to each other. and that was a big part is that as we started listening to ourselves, we came out with this direction.    Miko Lee: [00:21:47] And what would you both like the audience to walk away with after seeing the boiling?   Joan Osato: [00:21:52] I think, you know, as Sunhui talked about this, ritual of deep listening and so, the play doesn't guide anyone towards some natural conclusion that they should have about, you know, it's, it's not saying you, you must believe this, it's really leaving it up to the viewer, the listener, to draw their own conclusions. And, I think that, that people who come to this will be incredibly moved. I think that they will see a lot of parallels with what we're going through now and what we've gone through. And examine there is a kind of shameful history that we all need to grapple with, whether we own it or not. You know, Sunhui had talked about manifest destiny and that being like one of the founding, you know, kind kinds of principles that this country is founded upon. And there are many, many others That I think the play touches on which give pause and, and give the people who are engaging with this, room to think and reexamine their own actions in the world and how they approach it.   Sunhui Chang: [00:23:02] I'll just mention as an aside, you know, some of the things that we're looking at is. Our disconnect from the natural world and how that has impacted the natural world. Right.  I think Joan is spot on in, in that about, yeah, first and foremost, I do find this so important once again to say about listening. I do. I, that is the big thing that I would love is that for us to, if we really wanna truly have dialogues, and especially with people who we disagree with, and there is a lot of disagreement in this world right now. and for me, yeah, to, Get us back to a place where we could really listen to each other and not be in such a place where all we wanted to do is kind of say what we have to say. It's almost this thing of, oh, you know, the other has to listen, the other has to listen. And I really would like it that it becomes kind of more inward that we all say, Hey, it is time for me to listen. And then of course just the fact that when, as we listen to each other, what I do find and what I hope that others find as well, is that we're much more connected and we have so many things that tie us together than separate.   Miko Lee: [00:24:19] Well, thank both of you so much for joining us on Apex Express. Is there anything else you wanna add?   Sunhui Chang: [00:24:24] Just one thing, Miko, one of the elements of this play, is this natural world with birding and I would love to just, one of the big inspiration is that it's just a quote from Emily Dickinson and the quote is, “hope is the thing with feathers.” For me, I would love for people to kind of sit with that and think about that and what that means for us as human beings in relationship to the natural world, you know, and the importance of that.   Miko Lee: [00:24:52] Oh, that's such a beautiful visual image. Thank you so much for sharing that. I appreciate both of you for sharing your time with me.    Joan Osato: [00:24:59] Thank you, Miko.    Sunhui Chang: [00:25:00] Thank you Miko    Miko Lee: [00:25:01] The Boiling is a brand new play, and it's a story of a Korean American adoptee Brian, who's a virologist from the Midwest, and a former homicide Detective v, a black woman who lives in the Pacific Northwest, and they're partnered to do this trace and track from north to south. They're following David, a white nihilistic carrier of a feverish virus called the Boiling. This world Premier Show opens to the magic theater and runs from April 2nd through April 20th. You can get more information about this show, including links to buy tickets at our show notes on kpfa.org/programs/apexexpress.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:25:42] Next we'll listen to an excerpt from The Camp, the first opera on the Japanese American Concentration camps during World War II. The camp premiered from February 22nd to March 2nd, 2025 at the JACCC Aratani Theater in Los Angeles. Composed by Daniel Kessner, who combines modern classical with Japanese instruments, A libretto by Lionelle Hamanaka, directed by Diana Wyenn, with Associate Director John Miyasaki, 11 singers and a 22 piece orchestra conducted by Steve Hofer. The incidents in The Camp Opera were drawn from different camps where over 126,000 Japanese Americans were imprisoned to see the many Japanese American groups that supported this project, including JANM, DENSHO and Raf Shimpo see the camp opera.com and if you know a place where The Camp can be performed near you, please contact the campopera.com/support.    MUSIC   Miko Lee: [00:27:53] Welcome to Apex Express. I'm so glad to have Eth-Noh-Tec once again, we get Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo and Nancy Wang.   Nancy Wang: [00:28:03] Yay. Yes. Hi. Hello. So glad to be here with you Miko.   Miko Lee: [00:28:07] We have been friends and colleagues for, it feels like a hundred billion years. The times that we're in are so complicated right now. But I just wanna first start with the question I often ask people, which is for each of you to tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Nancy Wang: [00:28:27] Well, I am Chinese American, and I am fifth generation on my mother's side. And. So we go all the way back to 1850 when our family first came on a junk boat and started the fishing industry in the Monterey Bay area.    Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:28:45] And I am, half Japanese, half Filipino, born in San Francisco, raised in Concord, California, and living in the Bay Area for all my life.   Miko Lee: [00:28:50] And what legacy do you carry with you?    Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:28:58] Well, I guess the identity I have as an Asian American, Japanese, and Filipino, um, I embrace all of that. The legacy is, as an artist, a performer. I've dedicated my life to creating works that reflect an Asian American consciousness, social, political, cultural. Both traditional works as well as new modern stories and music as well.    Nancy Wang: [00:29:25] And I was also a psychotherapist, so my work in the arts, whether it's dance, which I started out being a dancer and then a playwright, and then storytelling. I always weave in the healing aspect of what we all need to do in our communities. And so I use my art to also bring solace and bring celebration and bring, Depth and and the breadth of who we are as Asian Americans, as human beings, as part of this world, this country, then this city, so that we can celebrate who we are together.   Miko Lee: [00:30:04] Thank you for that. I hear you talking about activism, Asian American history, who we are and healing. I'm wondering if you could give me an update about what you're working on right now.   Nancy Wang: [00:30:14] Well, we have several things in the pipeline. I, for one, just finished writing and has now published Red Altar, which is the story of my ancestors. Three generations are followed in this book, about how they established the fishing industry in the Monterey Bay area. All the ways they had to reinvent themselves as laws were passed against them. The people try to get rid of them. And it's really a story of courage and determination and persistence, ingenuity and obviously success. Because I'm here. So I'm gonna be doing some more readings and that can be found on our webpage. Right. And Robert,    Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:30:55] I am focusing on archiving our work and after working with Nancy and creating Eth-Noh-Tec for the last 43 plus years, we have developed over 200 stories, and we put them on stage. We've written them, some of them are now being written as a compendium of stories. These are Neo-traditional folk tales and myths from Asia. And, people don't know much of this, but I am also an artist, so I'm creating illustrations that depict these stories. That's one project.   Nancy Wang: [00:31:23] Yeah, that's our next book. but what we're really excited about is our second Strong Like Bamboo, stories of resilience in the era of Asian American hate, but it's really broadened beyond Asian American because this year on May 22nd, will be a gathering of Latino and Asian artists and musicians, storytellers, and activists to just sit around and really share our stories, share our music, share our concerns, and to build bridges with each other because it, we will need to increase, our coalitions during this era. It's gotten worse, so we really need to come together.   Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:32:08] and we titled it strong like bamboo because of the Asian anecdote about, you know, one bamboo can snap, but together binding many bamboo together we're much stronger. So it's a call out to the community to bring all of our constituents and broaden that so that we are strong, as people of color.    Nancy Wang: [00:32:25] And of course we're gonna have food, which always brings us all together. But also bamboo can bend. Without breaking, so that's on a Thursday, May 22nd. But on May 25th, I have curated four other storytellers to tell their stories of their racist experiences and how they came through it to a healing place.    Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:32:48] There's a gathering of Asian American storytellers, both from the Chicago area and also from the west coast.    Nancy Wang: [00:32:53] And there'll be a panel so they can ask questions and we can have discussions. But after that, the people in the audience will have the opportunity to break up into small groups of three in which they get to share their own stories, their own concerns, and that's really the whole thing is about inspiring people to come through what they're going through and coming out, on the other side with some hope and healing. Because when we share our stories, we lift that particular burden of, say our story about our racist experience. We lifted off our own shoulders and we get to share it. With someone who's listening with compassion and we don't feel alone anymore. It's really a powerful, powerful way to find community connection, relation, and strength.   Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:33:45] And we'll have also in both of those events, resources in earlier years, I was an Asian American songwriter and did a lot of songs of not just identity, but of unity. I'm also gonna be singing a theme song called Bamboo, which is part of the title and also, a work by Chris Jim, famous of the Chris and Joe Asian American Duet from years ago. the one song we're still here, though it was written 30, 40 years ago. It's still pertinent to what's going on now, especially declaring that America is a multiracial, multiethnic, texture of society.   Nancy Wang: [00:34:20] and, in 2026 we're gonna bring on, African-American and Euro-American, storytellers also, so that we really have a multicultural representation of all who we are and how we still will need to come together. I hope things will be better by 2026, but who knows?    Miko Lee: [00:34:39] Thank you so much for sharing about how storytelling can really be a tool for social change. Is there anything else you wanna share with our audience?   Nancy Wang: [00:34:47] Yeah. please come to our strong like Bamboo on May 22nd and 25th is gonna be at the San Francisco Public Library Main Library, both are free to the public May 22nd the Thursday at May 22nd, it's gonna be in Hispanic room,    Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:35:05] and what time?   Nancy Wang: [00:35:06] Six to seven-thirty. And on Sunday it'll be in the presentations, the performances in the panel will be in the Koret auditorium, and then small groups will convene in the Hispanic room, which is right next door, and it's got elevators. So no problem, in getting there. Plus Bart and the bus is, it's easy to get there. And so that's what we wanted so that people could feel welcome.    Robert Kikuchi-Yngojo: [00:35:35] And that second show on Sunday Strong like Bamboo will feature our guest artist storytellers, professional storytellers. One of them being a local Eleanor Clement Glass who's half African American and Filipino, talking about her experiences. And then also, two guest artists from Chicago, one of them being Lillian Ji, who is a Japanese American hapa. Then third is, Archie Jun, who is a Thai American gay comedian storyteller who is a total riot. we are really wanting to blend many of our communities together to hear this talent Yes. And to deal with the topics.    Nancy Wang: [00:36:10] So we would love for the LGBTQ plus community to come out as well and support him and feel proud because all of the stories will, will really showcase our strength and our ability to deal with these things and come out the other side. So we are hoping that in the process of telling our pain, but coming out, on the other side, that it will be an inspiration for everyone to keep going during this difficult, very difficult time.    Miko Lee: [00:36:41] Thank you so much for joining me today.    Nancy Wang: [00:36:44] You're welcome. Thank you   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:36:46] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, and online worldwide at kpfa.org.   Miko Lee: [00:37:05] Welcome Jiehae Park to Apex Express. I am so excited to talk to you about the world premier of the aves opening at Berkeley Repertory Theater, May 2nd through June 8th. Welcome to Apex Express.    Jiehae Park: [00:37:19] Hi, Miko. It's so nice to be here. Thanks for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:37:22] I wanna just first start with a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Jiehae Park: [00:37:31] Hmm. I love the phrasing of that question. I was born in Korea and I came to the states when I was three years old with my parents who came to go to graduate school. And my father's family fled the north during the war. And my mother's family had always been in the south. And I definitely think that who they are and where they came from is a big part of who I am and the questions that I think of. And in a lot of ways, not just, racially and culturally, but also in terms of their interests. They're both scientists. This play deals, I hope thoughtfully with questions of identity and consciousness, that I've always been interested in.    Miko Lee: [00:38:18] And what legacy do you feel like you carry with you from them?   Jiehae Park: [00:38:22] Hmm. I mean, I write a lot about immigrants. This play isn't specifically about that, but in a lot of my previous work, I, I have. have written a lot about immigrants and I feel like my parents, you know, they came to this country when they were in their twenties. They didn't speak the language. They came from a generation of folks and at that time in the country where they were really, they had to be a certain way to survive. And I think that, intensity of work ethic, and the things that you also have to give up in order to get to where you think you wanna be, that question is, is part of their legacy to me. It's a, it's a gift and also something that, like a lot of other immigrants, I think I'm always sort of turning over in my mind and, and trying to look at from other angles.    Miko Lee: [00:39:12] Thank you for sharing. I'm wondering if you can talk to us about, first this title of your, world Premier, the aves. Where did this title come from? What is it about?    Jiehae Park: [00:39:23] So the title is the Latin word for Birds. And, the play there's a mystery that sort of unspools early on. So without, without giving too much away we see this old couple on a bench, on a park bench, and they have clearly been together for a long time and they are having a conversation that seems like a very ordinary conversation. And over the course of the first scene, we soon learn that they are discussing, doing something that will have ramifications throughout the rest of the play. And the aves is a word that I loved because of the association with birds. There, there are birds that make an appearance in this play, in both pedestrian and unexpected ways, in mysterious ways, and hopefully humorous ways. and then the connotation also of Ave Maria and this, this feeling of the sacred, which also infuses the play, which has a lot of humor, but also when I was writing it, I was thinking a lot about nature and the passage of time and this feeling of awe that I get when engage with nature. And I think that word also has those connotations for me.    Miko Lee: [00:40:46] And that sounds like a mystery that people need to come to find out more about. Can you tell us what inspired this work?    Jiehae Park: [00:40:54] I used to live on the northside of Central Park in Harlem, and I had this tiny, tiny little window that looked out, onto the north side of the park. And every day I would sit down to write and through my tiny window, I would see the same man sitting on this bench every day. And as the seasons changed and the leaves changed and the light changed, but still every morning there was the consistency of seeing the same person. And I think I I was thinking a lot about the passage of time and of nature shifting And I think subconsciously I was thinking about getting older myself. This was a time before I had children, but I was starting to become aware of my parents aging and generationally My peers, also our parents were aging and, and starting to have, you know, the complications and the beautiful things that can come with that. So I think all of that was a big soup in my subconscious. and I sat down and I wrote the first scene very quickly and then. I didn't know exactly what the rest of the play was gonna be, but I knew structurally that the first scene would be this old couple and that the second scene would be, a slightly different configuration of, of bodies. But that was hard to be so mysterious, um, and that the nex scene would be a different specific configuration of body. So I was thinking about the age of the bodies that you're watching and the story evolved from that. And I guess I should say that the play is set in a moment sort of best after now. So it's not the present, but it's not the distant future. It's certainly not like hard sci-fi by any means, but I think it uses some tools of speculative fiction. To ask questions that hopefully are illuminating about ourselves now.    Miko Lee: [00:42:59] Interesting. Did you ever talk with the man in the park that inspired this piece?   Jiehae Park: [00:43:05] You know, it's so funny. After the first couple of weeks of watching him, I realized he lived in my building and I hadn't noticed him before.    Miko Lee: [00:43:18] Wow. That's amazing.    Jiehae Park: [00:43:20] And I think that that's also something that. I had been thinking a lot about at the time this question of presence and attention, especially in New York, which is a city that is so loud. I mean, I love, I love New York and there's so many things that I love about New York, but it is such a loud city and it is hard to hear yourself think and, and the quality of attention in any. I was gonna say in any city, but in like any moment in our extremely chaotic world, I mean, especially now, that sort of quiet present quality of attention that I think is so beautiful and so rare, and I associate with, I'm not religious, but, but when I was a kid, I was, and this, this quality of, of sacred space, I think I was, I was really curious about that. And at the time, I think I had also that year gone on a silent meditation retreat. so trying to bring that quality of attention to my ordinary life as a urban citizen, I think was also part of the experience of writing the play. But yeah, he lived in my building and I hadn't noticed him before. And so this question of what do we notice and what do we need to shift in ourselves to notice what's in front of us and has been in front of us.    Miko Lee: [00:44:44] I am hearing you talk about a sense of presence and, and time passing. I'm wondering if that is what you want the audience to walk away with or are there other things that you're interested in provoking with this piece?    Jiehae Park: [00:44:57] As an audience member, when I go to any play, I always hope to leave a little bit different than how I entered and. That shift can be really subtle. In fact, for me as an audience member, sometimes it feels more profound when it is subtle. So on, on like at like a really baseline level. We've been having a lot of conversations with the design team about how to create this. Quality of space that feels different from the mundane so that when we enter the space of the theater, so for our body chemistry changes and that we are being asked by the play to lean in and pay attention perhaps in a way that we're not asked to pay attention, in, in the world outside of that room. And to be able to request that of an audience and share that with an audience. Together, I think is such a beautiful thing. And, and one of my favorite things about any collective experience when, when it all feels like we're breathing together. And my hope is that that's something that we can create, at a, like a biochemical level in our bodies, on a sort of more. Intellectual, emotional, philosophical level. I think there are questions that the play is asking about, what makes us, us and memory and the ability of a person and a relationship to change over a long period of time. And over the course of events that. May require forgiveness. those were certainly things that I was thinking about while I was writing it. So there's also that, that more character relational level of questioning that, that I think, will resonate with people, in different ways depending on where they are in their lives. And then I think especially because, you know, there's a lot of conversation about sandwich generation now, like folks, I. Who have dealt with aging themselves or aging parents and, the complexities and possibilities that can create. I think that there's another layer of the play that stirs up some of those questions as well.   Miko Lee: [00:47:04] Speaking of complexities and possibilities, I understand that you studied music and that you're also an actor and then you also write for Marvel's Runaways. Can you share a little bit about how these different elements impact you as a writer, as a creator?    Jiehae Park: [00:47:20] Yeah, so I started as an actor, which I think a lot of people do, mostly because it's the most accessible thing. Like you can audition for a play. You can't sort of audition to write a play. you can just write a play. But that, I think, came later for me. I don't really perform a ton anymore, although I did love it. and then the shift to television happened eight or so years ago. There's a big movement of playwrights moving into television, during peak tv. And they're very different. there is some shared similarity in storytelling instincts and craft. but the mediums are just really different, so I feel like I get very different things from, from all of them. I feel like I learned being a performer for a long time. As an artist, it's just getting to bump up against people who you think are fascinating and learn from them what you like and what you don't like, and who you wanna be and who you don't wanna be. and from tv I think I learned, To not be so precious. It takes a really long time for me to write a play. and I used to think, oh, I have to go into the woods and like be silent for a month and then like a play will emerge. And like sometimes it happens and it, that feels like a blessing when it does. But in TV, because there's so much money at stake and so much time pressure that you know, when something's due, it's just due and you turn it in. And if it's not perfect, you just deal with it and you make it as good as you can. And I think that there's a certain amount of shedding of perfectionism, which has been really healthy for me. but I do. Love the theater for the ability to spend a long period of time contemplating something and, and making it with a group of people who feel inspiring and we're all moving towards the same thing. and I think there's a little bit more space or a lot more space in the theater for things that may feel. mysterious or more open. whereas in television especially these days with the sort of decline of peak TV, there's an expectation of propulsion. Like overt propulsion, if that makes sense. That is not a criticism like, you know, I also love TV. but it is, it's like the pace of it is different and the ask of it is different than the ask of a play and and the baseline thing of just, you're not in the same room with the people experiencing it that is so special in theatre.    Miko Lee: [00:49:45] How do you go about shifting that mindset for that kind of speed of TV that you're describing versus the kind of longer meditative state of creating theater?    Jiehae Park: [00:49:55] Yeah, I mean, I think there's hopefully a two-way exchange. Because I also think that bringing some of those qualities of thoughtfulness and deliberation to the world of TV within the container, within the boundaries of it, can be incredibly useful. And ultimately a lot of the things that delight people, delight people regardless of the format. So that, like, that feeling of inevitable but surprising, like that's something that is of tremendous value in all mediums, right? I think for me personally, when I write a play. I try to make a space in my life that is a little more still. and I have a toddler now, so that's challenging. But in a way, working in television has been really helpful for that because, you know, I don't have five hours in the middle of the day to, you know, be with myself and listen to the trees. I maybe have like 30 minutes, but to try to drop into that as. quickly and without angst, without like working myself up about it. 'cause that's a waste of time. That's been a useful lesson to learn. Whereas working in television can feel a lot less lonely also than playwriting because in a writer's room, most shows in the states are written in the writer's room, there are few exceptions, and you're with a group of people. And so there's a sort of energetic exchange happening there that in a play only happens much, much later when you're in rehearsal and ideally in production. there's a sort of joyful energy and exchange that can happen in a writer's room, both when you're breaking the story and then ultimately when you're in production. And there's like many, many more people involved. And there's the crew and the cast and you know, all of the technical departments and producers. I feel like you mentioned, Code switching earlier. And, humans are so adaptable and I think we automatically sort of shift our brain chemistry and our body chemistry in response to the environment around us. sometimes very consciously, sometimes unconsciously, sometimes both. so I think a certain amount of that is just, okay, these are the given circumstances. And then, you become who you need to be in that space.   Miko Lee: [00:51:54] Thank you for sharing. Okay. I have one last TV question, which is that given that everybody's in this writing room together and you're, there's kind of a speed that's attached to it, do you feel like things get thrown out more quickly and with less kind of emotion attached to it than in theater?    Jiehae Park: [00:52:10] It's possible. I think it depends on the person. So I just worked on season four of the morning show last year. And there is a real need on that show because it deals with the news to be absorbing what's happening in the world and shifting the story based on that. And so that there has to be a sort of lightness around that. So in that kind of environment, absolutely. but I've also been in other rooms where someone got really attached to an idea, and maybe it was clear that that idea wasn't gonna work out, but there was, there was still like something, in it that wanted to be held onto and, and it may be hung on for a long time. And that process. Also could have happened, like that exact parallel process could have happened in a play. And actually in neither of the situation, is that necessarily a bad thing? Like is there something about that idea that maybe is not the idea itself, like the emotional core underneath it or the deep, deep idea underneath it that is useful? That even if the manifestation of the thing doesn't continue, if the manifestation gets thrown out, but like the real thing that was underneath it was important gets folded in in some unexpected way. I don't think it's a bad thing either way. It just is the peculiarities of any particular process.   Miko Lee: [00:53:22] And it sounds like it's about the people too, right?    Jiehae Park: [00:53:25] Yes, definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I've certainly been in that book where I'm like, oh, I really think it's like this. It's gotta be this, it's gotta be this. And then, you know, two years later, I look at the draft, I'm like, oh, no, no, no. It, it is definitely not that. Like let me take that entire thing out. and it just was in that particular moment, I wasn't ready for whatever reason to let go of that idea. And that's okay. I am now, and then it moves on.    Miko Lee: [00:53:48] We're circling back to the beginning of the conversation about the aves, which is about presence and being in that moment. And where you are in that moment might be, no, this isn't right. And then years later you say, oh yeah, that wasn't right. Or that was right.   Jiehae Park: [00:54:03] Yeah, exactly, exactly. To listen to yourself is a, you know, I, I am, I've been doing this for a long time now and, that is still something that I feel like I always have to learn, that I think just is a human.   Miko Lee: [00:54:15] Yes. The perennial lesson of Yes, intuition. I'm wondering if you could tell our audience why they should go see the aves.    Jiehae Park: [00:54:24] My hope is that if you are curious about a certain kind of experience and attention in the theater, that you'll accept our invitation to this play, which is an unusual play. I don't think that everyone should see this play, just like, I don't think everyone should see any particular work of art, but if the things that we've been discussing, if the sort of vibe that you're getting from this conversation resonates with you, then the experience of seeing this play with a group of people who are also curious about that kind of experience may be something. That is enjoyable for you and would probably therefore also be enjoyable for that audience to be together with you and for the play to be together with you in that space.    Miko Lee: [00:55:17] Thank you so much for spending time chatting with us. Folks can see the aves at Berkeley rep May 2nd through June 8th. Thank you so much, Jiehae.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:55:26] For you Asian American film makers out there: SFFILM announced a new annual filmmaking grant in partnership with Cedar Road. The SFFILM Cedar Road Iyagi Grant is dedicated to fostering bold, original feature film projects that amplify Asian and Asian American perspectives on screen. In Korean, iyagi means “story”—a word that embodies the heart of this grant's mission: to champion storytelling as a powerful bridge connecting people across cultures and perspectives. A link to the grant application will be available in our show notes.    Miko Lee: [00:55:58] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important.    APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.  The post APEX Express – 4. 3.25 – Coming Up Next appeared first on KPFA.

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Grace Lee Boggs said, “History is not the past. It is the stories we tell about the past. How we tell these stories – triumphantly or self-critically, metaphysically or dialectally – has a lot to do with whether we cut short or advance our evolution as human beings.” In our current chaotic time, it feels like we are intentionally ignoring history. Our lack of awareness feels like a de-evolution, as our education department is gutting, books are banned, and so many American institutions are at risk, it feels as though a critical analysis of history is being ignored.  On Tonight's APEX Express, Host Miko Lee focuses on Wong Kim Ark and the importance of Birthright Citizenship. She speaks with historian David Lei, Reverend Deb Lee and lawyer/educator Annie Lee and activist Nick Gee. Discussed by Our Guests: What You Can Do To Protect Birthright Citizenship Our history is tied to the legacy of Wong Kim Ark and birthright citizenship, and it will take ongoing advocacy to protect this fundamental right. Here are four ways you can stay involved in the work ahead: Invite a friend to attend an event as part of Chinese for Affirmative Action's weeklong series commemorating Wong Kim Ark. Take action and oppose Trump's executive order banning birthright citizenship. Learn about Wong Kim Ark and Trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. Sign up to join Stop AAPI Hate's Many Roots, One Home campaign to fight back against Trump's anti-immigrant agenda.   How you can get engaged to protect immigrants: https://www.im4humanintegrity.org/ https://www.bayresistance.org/ Bay Area Immigration: 24 Hour Hotlines San Francisco 415-200-1548 Alameda County 510-241-4011 Santa Clara County 408-290-1144 Marin County 415-991-4545 San Mateo County 203-666-4472   Know Your Rights (in various Asian languages) Thank you to our guests and Chinese for Affirmative Action for the clip from Wong Kim Ark's great grandson Norman Wong   Show Transcript: Wong Kim Ark Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:35] Grace Lee Boggs said history is not the past. It is the stories we tell about the past, how we tell these stories. Triumphantly or self critically metaphysically or dialectically, has a lot to do with whether we cut short or advance our evolution as human beings. I. Well, in our current chaotic times, it feels like we are intentionally ignoring history. Our lack of awareness feels like a de-evolution. As our education department is gutted and books are banned, and so many of our American institutions are at risks, it feels as though a critical analysis of history is just being intentionally ignored. So welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight we're gonna delve back into a moment of history that is very much relevant in our contemporary world. Tonight's show is about long Kim Ark. There's a famous black and white photo of a Chinese American man. His hair is pulled back with a large forehead on display, wide open eyes with eyebrows slightly raised, looking at the camera with an air of confidence and innocence. He is wearing a simple mandarin collared shirt, one frog button straining at his neck, and then two more near his right shoulder. The date stamp is November 15th, 1894. His name is Wong Kim Ark. Tonight we hear more about his story, why it is important, what birthright citizenship means, and what you could do to get involved. So stay tuned. Welcome, David Lei, former social worker, community activist, lifelong San Franciscan, and amazing community storyteller. Welcome to Apex Express.    David Lei: [00:02:21] Thank you, Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:02:23] Can you first start with a personal question and tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    David Lei: [00:02:31] I'm now on the board of Chinese Historical Society of America. Chinese American History is pretty important to me for my identity and the story of Chinese in America is American history, and that's where I'm at now.   Miko Lee: [00:02:50] And what legacy do you carry with you from your ancestors?    David Lei: [00:02:56] To pass on the wisdom they pass to me to future descendants. But I'm here in America, so I know after a few generations, my descendants won't look like me. Most likely they won't speak Chinese. They're going to be Americans. So. The lessons and values and wisdoms, my ancestors passed to me, I'm passing to America.   Miko Lee: [00:03:30] we are talking on this episode about Wong Kim Ark and as a community storyteller, I wonder if you can take me back to that time, take me back to Wong Kim Ark growing up in San Francisco, Chinatown, what was happening in San Francisco, Chinatown at that time    David Lei: [00:03:48] Okay, this is the end of the 19th century and we have the Exclusion Act in 1882 where Chinese were excluded from coming to America with few exceptions like merchants, diplomats, and scholars. So if you're Chinese and you're a laborer you just can't come. And there were concerns about. Going, even if you were here, there's a process for your return, the documents you will need. But even that was iffy. But for Chinese in general, there was birthright citizenship. So if you were born here, you have citizenship and that because of the 14th amendment. So many Chinese thought birthright citizenship was important 'cause you can vote, you have more rights, less chance that you will be deported. So the Chinese, born in America, right at 1895, formed a Chinese American Citizens Alliance. The concept of being a American citizen was in everybody's mind in Chinatown at that time. The Chinese been fighting for this birthright citizenship ever since the Exclusion Act. Before Wong Kim Ark, there was Look Tin Sing in the matter regarding Look Tin Sing was a CA federal Court of Appeal case. Look Tin Sing was born in Mendocino, so he's American born. He assumed he was a citizen. His parents sent him back to China before the Exclusion Act, and when he came back after the Exclusion Act, of course he didn't have the paperwork that were required , but he was born here. So to prove that he was a citizen. He had to have a lawyer and had to have white witness, and it went to the federal Court of Appeal, ninth Circuit, and the Chinese sixth company. The City Hall for Chinatown knew this was important for all Chinese, so gave him a lawyer, Thomas Den, and he won the case. Then in 1888, this happened again with a guy named Hong Yin Ming. He was held and he had to go to the Federal Court of Appeal to win again, then Wong Kim Ark 1895. He was stopped and. This time, the Chinese six company, which is a city hall for Chinatown they really went all out. They hired two of the best lawyers money could buy. The former deputy Attorney General for the United States, one of which was the co-founder of the American Bar Association. So these were very expensive, influential lawyers. And because Wong Kim Ark was a young man under 25, he was a cook, so he was poor, but the community backed him. And went to the Supreme Court and won because it was a Supreme Court case. It took precedent over the two prior cases that only went to the Court of Appeal.    Now you might think, here's a guy who has a Supreme Court case that says he's an American citizen. Well, a few years later in 1901, Wong Kim Ark went to Mexico to Juarez. When he came back to El Paso the immigration stopped him at El Paso and says, no you are just a cook. you're not allowed to come in because we have the 1882 Exclusion Act. Wong Kim Ark Says, I have a Supreme Court case saying I'm a US citizen, and the El Paso newspaper also had an article that very week saying they're holding a US citizen who has a Supreme Court case in his favor saying that he is a US citizen. However, immigration still held him for four months in El Paso. I think just to hassle. To make it difficult. Then by 1910, Wong Kim Ark had a few sons in China that he wants to bring to the us so he arranged for his first son to come to America in 1910. His first son was held at Angel Island. Interrogated did not pass, so they deported his firstborn son. So he says, wow, this is my real son, and he can't even get in. So this is dealing with immigration and the US laws and the racist laws is unending. Just because you win the Supreme Court case, that doesn't mean you're safe as we are seeing now. So it takes the community, takes a lot of effort. It takes money to hire the best lawyers. It takes strategizing. It takes someone to go to jail, habeas corpus case oftentimes to test the laws. And even when you win, it's not forever. It's constantly challenged. So I think that's the message in the community. Chinese community had push back on this and have pushed for Birthright citizenship from the very beginning of the Exclusion Act.    Miko Lee: [00:09:48] Thank you so much for that. David. Can we go back a little bit and explain for our audience what the Six Companies meant to Chinatown?    David Lei: [00:09:57] From the very beginning, there were a lot of laws racist laws that were anti-Chinese, and the Chinese always felt they needed representation. Many of the Chinese did not speak English, did not understand the laws, so they formed the Chinese Six Companies. Officially known as the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association. most Chinese come from just the six districts from Guangdong Province. They're like counties. However, in China, each counties most likely will have their own dialect. Unintelligible to the county next to them. They will have their own food ways, their own temples. almost like separate countries. So there were six major counties where the Chinese in America came from. So each county sent representatives to this central organization called the Chinese six companies, and they represented the Chinese in America initially in all of America. Then later on, different states set up their own Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association, so they would tax their own membership or get their own membership to pay fees. They had in-house lawyers to negotiate with city government, state government, federal government, and they would raise the money. They were the GoFundMe of their days. Almost every month they were hiring lawyers to protect some Chinese, somewhere in America against unfair unjust laws. The Chinese six company was very important to the Chinese in America, and they were the first to really push back on the Chinese exclusion Act between 1882 and 1905. 105,000 Chinese in America after the exclusion Act sued a federal government more than 10,000 times. This is about 10% of the Chinese population in America, sued the federal government. I'm not including state government, counties nor municipalities. This is just the federal government. About 10% of the Chinese here sued and almost 30 of these went to the Federal Supreme Court, and it was the sixth company that organized many of these winning for all Americans and not just the Chinese right. To a public education. Even if you are an immigrant tape versus Hurley in 1885. Then we have the Yick Wo versus Hopkins case that gave equal protection under law for everyone. Now, the 14th Amendment does have this clause equal protection under law, but everybody thought that meant you had to write a law that was equal for everybody. But in the case of Yick Wo versus Hopkins, it was also important that the law is executed and administered equally for everyone. That's the first time where it was made very clear that equal protection under law also means the administration and the execution of the law. So that is the core of American Civil Rights and the Chinese won this case for all Americans. Of course, Wong Kim Ark.    The concept of political asylum, public law 29 was a Chinese case passed by Congress in 1921, and then we have Miranda Act. If you look into the Miranda Act, it was based on a Chinese case, 1924 Ziang Sun Wan versus the US two Chinese were accused of murder in Washington DC They were tortured, denied sleep. Denied food, denied attorneys, so they confessed. But when it came to trial. They said we didn't do it, we confessed 'cause we were tortured and they won in the Supreme Court, but it was a Washington DC case only applicable to federal jurisdictions. So when Miranda came up, the Supreme Court said, well, we decided this in 1924, but now we'll just make it applicable to state, county and municipality. And then of course, as recently as 1974 Chinese for affirmative action helped bring the Lao versus Nichols case. Where now is required to have bilingual education for immigrant students, if there are enough of them to form a class where they can be taught math, science, history in their original language. These and many more. The Chinese brought and won these cases for all Americans, but few people know this and we just don't talk about it.    Miko Lee: [00:15:35] David, thank you so much for dropping all this knowledge on us. I did not know that the Miranda rights comes from Asian Americans. That's powerful. Yes. And so many other cases. I'm wondering, you said that Chinese Americans and the six companies sued, did you say 10,000 times?    David Lei: [00:15:53] We have 10,000 individual cases. In many of these cases, the Chinese six company helped provide a lawyer or a vice.    Miko Lee: [00:16:03] And where did that come from? Where did that impetus, how did utilizing the legal system become so imbued in their organizing process?   David Lei: [00:16:14] Well, because it worked even with the exclusion act, during the exclusion period most Chinese. Got a lawyer to represent them, got in something like 80%. In many of the years, 80% of the Chinese that hire a lawyer to help them with the immigration process were omitted. So the Chinese knew the courts acted differently from politics. The Chinese did not have a vote. So had no power in the executive branch nor the legislative branch. But they knew if they hire good lawyers, they have power in the court. So regardless of whether their fellow Americans like them or not legally the Chinese had certain rights, and they made sure they received those rights. By organizing, hiring the best lawyers, and this was a strategy. suing slowed down after 1905 because the Chinese lost a important case called Ju Toy versus the us. The Supreme Court decided that since the Chinese sue so much, their courts of appeal were tied up with all these cases. So the Supreme Court says from now on, the Supreme Court will give up his rights to oversight on the executive branch when it comes to immigration because the Chinese sue too much. And that's why today the executive branch. Has so much power when it comes to immigration, cause the court gave up the oversight rights in this ju toy versus the US in 1905. So if we go to the history of the law a lot of the legal policies we live in today, were. Pushback and push for by the Chinese, because the Chinese were the first group that were excluded denied these rights. but the Chinese were very organized one of the most organized group and push back. And that's why we have all these laws that the Chinese won.    Miko Lee: [00:18:30] And in your deep knowledge of all this history of these many cases, what do you think about what is happening right now with all the conversations around birthright citizenship? Can you put that into a historical perspective?    David Lei: [00:18:44] So being an American. We always have to be on the guard for our rights. Who would've thought Roe v. Wade would be overturned? So all these things can be challenged. America's attitude change. Civil disobedience, the Chinese are actually, we have on record the largest number of people practicing civil disobedience over a long period of time. In 1892, when the Exclusion Act, Chinese Exclusion Act had to be renewed, they added this. New requirement that every Chinese must carry a certificate of residency with their photo on it. Well, this is like a internal passport. No one had to have this internal passport, but they made the Chinese do it. So the Chinese six company. Says, no, this is not right. Only dogs need to carry a license around to identify. Itself and only criminals needs to register with a state. And we Chinese are not dogs and we're not criminals, so we're not going to do it 'cause no one else needs to do it. So the six company told all the Chinese 105,000 Chinese not to register. 97% refuse to register. In the meantime, the six companies sued the federal government again. Saying the Federal Go government cannot do this. The Chinese lost this case in the Supreme Court and everybody then had to register, but they didn't register until two years later, 1894. So they held. Held out for two years.   Miko Lee: [00:20:31] How many people was that?    David Lei: [00:20:32] About a hundred thousand. 97% of the 105,000 Chinese refused to do this. So if you look at these certificate of residencies that the Chinese were forced to carry. They were supposed to register in 1892. Almost all of them are 1894. Some of them in fact many of them are May, 1894, the last second that you can register before they start deporting you. So the Chinese. Also practiced civil disobedience and the largest incidents, a hundred thousand people for two years.    Miko Lee: [00:21:15] How did they communicate with each other about that?   David Lei: [00:21:18] The Chinese were very well connected through the six companies, their district association, their surname association oftentimes because of. The racism segregation, the Chinese were forced to live in Chinatowns or relied on their own network. To support each other. So there, there's a lot of letter writing and a lot of institutions, and they kept in touch.That network was very powerful. In fact, the network to interpret a law for everybody interpret uh, any rules of business, and. Just how to conduct themselves in America. They have a lot of institutions doing that. We still have them in the 24 square blocks we call Chinatown. We have almost 300 organizations helping the immigrants. Chinese there with language, with how to do your taxes tutoring for their kids. Advice on schools paying their bills and so on. We have surnames associations, we have district associations, we have gills, we have fraternal organizations, and we certainly have a lot of nonprofits. So it's very, very supportive community. And that's always been the case.    Miko Lee: [00:22:42] I'm wondering what you feel like we can learn from those organizers today. A hundred thousand for civil disobedience. And we're often portrayed as the model minority people just follow along. That's a lot of people during that time. And what do you think we can learn today from those folks that organize for civil disobedience and the Chinese Exclusion Act?    David Lei: [00:23:03] It takes a community. One person can't do it. You have to organize. You have to contribute. You have to hire the best lawyers, the very best. In fact, with the Yik Wo versus Hopkins case, the equal protection under law, the Chinese immediately raised 20,000 equivalent to half a million. It takes collective action. It takes money. You just have to support this to keep our rights.    Miko Lee: [00:23:29] And lastly, what would you like our audience to understand about Wong Kim Ark?    David Lei: [00:23:35] Well, Wong Kim Ark, he was just an average person, a working person that the immigration department made life miserable for him. Is very difficult to be an immigrant anytime, but today is even worse. We have to have some empathy. He was the test case, but there were so many others. I mentioned Look Tin Sing, whose adult name is Look Tin Eli. We know a lot about Look Tin Eli and then this other Hong Yin Ming in 1888 before Wong Kim Ark and so generations of generations of immigrants. Have had a hard time with our immigration department. It's just not a friendly thing we do here. And you know, we're all descendants of immigrants unless you're a Native American. Like I mentioned Look Tin Sing, who was the first case that I could find. For birthright citizenship. His mother was Native American, but Native American didn't even get to be citizens until 1924. You know, that's kind of really strange. But that was the case.    Miko Lee: [00:24:50] That's very absurd in our world.    David Lei: [00:24:52] Yes, Chinatown is where it is today because of Look Tin Sing, his adult name, Look Tin Eli. He saved Chinatown after the earthquake. He's the one that organized all the business people to rebuild Chinatown like a fantasy Chinese land Epcot center with all the pagoda roofs, and he's the one that saved Chinatown. Without him and his Native American mother, we would've been moved to Hunter's Point after the earthquake. He later on became president of the China Bank and also president of the China Mayo Steamship Line. So he was an important figure in Chinese American history, but he had to deal with immigration.   Miko Lee: [00:25:39] David Lei, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us. I appreciate hearing this story and folks can find out when you are part of a panel discussion for Wong Kim Ark week, right?    David Lei: [00:25:50] Yes.    Miko Lee: [00:25:51] Great. We will be able to see you there. Thank you so much for being on Apex Express. Annie Lee, managing director of Policy at Chinese for affirmative action. Welcome to Apex Express.    Annie Lee: [00:26:01] Thank you so much for having me Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:26:02] I wanna just start with this, a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Annie Lee: [00:26:10] I am the daughter of monolingual working class Chinese immigrants. And so I would say my people hail from Southern China and were able to come to the United States where I was born and was allowed to thrive and call this place home. I do this work at Chinese for Affirmative Action on their behalf and for other folks like them.    Miko Lee: [00:26:31] Thanks Annie, Today we're recording on March 17th, and I'm noting this because as we know, things are changing so quickly in this chaotic administration. By the time this airs on Thursday, things might change. So today's March 17th. Can you as both an educator and a lawyer, give me a little bit of update on where birthright citizenship, where does it stand legally right now?    Annie Lee: [00:26:55] As an educator and a lawyer, I wanna situate us in where birthright citizenship lives in the law, which is in the 14th Amendment. So the 14th Amendment has a birthright citizenship clause, which is very clear, and it states that people who were born in the United States, in subject to the laws thereof are United States citizens. The reason. This clause was explicitly added into the 14th Amendment, was because of chattel slavery in the United States and how this country did not recognize the citizenship of enslaved African Americans for generations. And so after the Civil War and the Union winning that war and the ends of slavery . We had to make African Americans citizens, they had to be full citizens in the eye of the law. And that is why we have the 14th Amendment. And that clause of the 14th Amendment was later litigated all the way to the Supreme Court by Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco, like me, two Chinese immigrant parents. When he left the United States, he went to China to visit his family. He tried to come back. They wouldn't let him in. and he said, I am a citizen because I was born in the United States and this clause in your 14th amendment, our 14th amendment says that I'm a citizen. It went all the way to Supreme Court and the Supreme Court agreed with Wong Kim Ark. Does not matter your parents' citizenship status. Everyone born in the United States is a US citizen, except for a very, very narrow set of exceptions for the kids of foreign diplomats that really is not worth getting into. Everyone is born. Everyone who's born in the United States is a citizen. Okay? So then you all know from Trump's executive order on day one of his second presidency that he is attempting to upends this very consistent piece of law, and he is using these fringe, outlandish legal arguments that we have never heard before and has never merited any discussion because it is just. Facially incorrect based on the law and all of the interpretation of the 14th amendment after that amendment was ratified. So he is using that to try to upend birthright citizenship. There have been a number of lawsuits. Over 10 lawsuits from impacted parties, from states and there have been three federal judges in Maryland, Washington State, and New Hampshire, who have issued nationwide injunctions to stop the executive order from taking effect. That means that despite what Trump says in his executive order. The birthright citizenship clause remains as it is. So any child born today in the United States is still a citizen. The problem we have is that despite what three judges now issuing a nationwide injunction, the Trump's government has now sought assistance from the Supreme Court to consider his request to lift the nationwide pause on his executive order. So the justices, have requested filings from parties by early April, to determine whether or not a nationwide injunction is appropriate. This is extraordinary. This is not the way litigation works in the United States. Usually you let the cases proceed. In the normal process, which goes from a district court to an appeals court, and then eventually to the Supreme Court if it gets appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court. This is very different from the normal course of action and I think very troubling.    Miko Lee: [00:30:36] So can you talk a little bit about that? I know we constantly say in this administration it's unprecedented, but talk about how there's three different states that have actually filed this injunction. , how typical is that for then it or it to then go to the Supreme Court?    Annie Lee: [00:30:53] Just to clarify, it's not three different states. It's judges in three different states. In fact, more than many, many states, 18 more than 18 states. There have been two lawsuits related, brought by states one that California was a part of that had multiple states over 18 states as well as San Francisco and District of Columbia. Then there was another lawsuit brought by another set of states. and so many states are opposed to this, for different reasons. I find their complaints to be very, very compelling. Before I get into the fact that multiple judges have ruled against the Trump administration, I did want to explain that the reason states care about this is because birthright citizenship is not an immigration issue. Birthright citizenship is just a fundamental issue of impacting everyone, and I really want people to understand this. If you are white and born in the United States, you are a birthright citizen. If you are black and born in the United States, you are a birthright citizen. It is a fallacy to believe that birthright citizenship only impacts immigrants. That is not true. I am a mother and I gave birth to my second child last year, so I've been through this process. Every person who gives birth in the United States. You go to the hospital primarily, they talk to you after your child is born about how to get a social security card for your child. All you have to do is have your child's birth certificate. That is how every state in this country processes citizenship and how the federal government processes citizenship. It is through a birth certificate, and that is all you need. So you go to your health department in your city, you get the birth certificate, you tell, then you get your social security card. That is how everyone does it. If you change this process, it will impact every state in this country and it will be very, very cumbersome. Which is why all of these states, attorneys general, are up in arms about changing birthright citizenship. It is just the way we function. That again applies to re regardless of your parents' immigration status. This is an issue that impacts every single American. Now, to your question as to what does it mean if multiple judges in different states, in different federal district courts have all ruled against. Donald Trump, I think it really means that the law is clear. You have judges who ha are Reagan appointees saying that the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment is crystal clear. It has, it is clear in terms of the text. If you are a textualist and you read exactly what the text says, if you believe in the context of, The 14th Amendment. If you look at the judicial history and just how this clause has been interpreted since ratification, like everything is consistent, this is not an area of law that has any gray area. And you see that because different judges in different district courts in Maryland, in Washington, in New Hampshire all have cited against Donald Trump.    Miko Lee: [00:33:54] So what is the intention of going to the Supreme Court?    Annie Lee: [00:33:59] I mean, he is trying to forum shop. He's trying to get a court that he believes will favor his interpretation and that is why the right has spent the last half century stacking federal courts. And that is why Mitch McConnell did not let Barack Obama replace Antonin Scalia. The composition of the Supreme Court is. So, so important, and you can see it at times like this.    Miko Lee: [00:34:28] But so many of the conservatives always talk about being constitutionalists, like really standing for the Constitution. So how do those things line up?   Annie Lee: [00:34:38] Oh, Miko, that's a great question. Indeed, yes, if they were the textualist that they say they are, this is a pretty clear case, but, Law is not as cut and dry as people think it is. It is obviously motivated by politics and that means law is subject to interpretation.   Miko Lee: [00:34:59] Annie, thank you so much for this breakdown. Are there any things that you would ask? Are people that are listening to this, how can they get involved? What can they do?    Annie Lee: [00:35:09] I would recommend folks check out StopAAPIHate. We are having monthly town halls as well as weekly videos to help break down what is happening. There's so much news and misinformation out there but we are trying to explain everything to everyone because these anti-immigration. Policies that are coming out be, this is anti-Asian hate and people should know that. You can also check out resources through Chinese for affirmative action. Our website has local resources for those of you who are in the Bay Area, including the rapid response lines for bay Area counties if you need any services, if you. See ICE. , if you want to know where their ICE is in any particular location, please call your rapid response line and ask them for that verifiable information. Thank you.    Miko Lee: [00:36:00] Thank you so much, Annie Lee for joining us today on Apex.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:36:04] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org.   Miko Lee: [00:36:23] Welcome, Nicholas Gee from Chinese for affirmative action. Welcome to Apex Express.    Nicholas Gee: [00:36:29] Thanks so much, Miko. Glad to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:36:31] I'm so glad that you could join us on the fly. I wanted to first just start by asking you a personal question, which is for you to tell me who you are,, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you.   Nicholas Gee: [00:36:46] I'll start off by saying Miko, thanks so much for having me. My name is Nicholas Gee and I am a third and or fourth generation Chinese American, born and raised in Houston, Texas. And for me, what that means is, is that my great-great-grandparents and great-grandparents migrated from Southern China, fleeing war and famine and looking for opportunity in the middle of the early, like 19 hundreds. And they wanted to start an opportunity here for future generations like me. My people are my family who migrated here over a hundred years ago. who were settling to start a new life. My people are also the people that I advocate with, the Language Access network of San Francisco, the Immigrant Parent Voting Collaborative, my colleagues at Chinese for affirmative action and stop AAPI hate. I think about my people as the people that I'm advocating with on the ground day to day asking and demanding for change.   Miko Lee: [00:37:41] Thank you. And what legacy do you carry with you?    Nicholas Gee: [00:37:45] I carry the legacy of my elders, particularly my grandparents who immigrated here in around the 1940s or so. And when I think about their legacy, I think a lot about the legacy of immigration, what it means to be here, what it means to belong, and the fight for advocacy and the work that I do today.    Miko Lee: [00:38:05] Thanks so much, Nick, and we're here doing this show all about Wong Kim Ark, and I know Chinese for affirmative action has planned this whole week-long celebration to bring up as we're talking about legacy, the legacy of Wong Kim Ark. Can you talk about how this one week celebration came to be and what folks can expect?    Nicholas Gee: [00:38:26] Yeah. As folks may know we are in the midst of many executive orders that have been in place and one of them being the executive order to end birthright citizenship. And Wong Kim Ark was actually born and raised in San Francisco's Chinatown, particularly on seven. 51 Sacramento Street. In the heart of the community and local partners here in this city, we're really trying to figure out how do we advocate and protect birthright citizenship? How do we bring momentum to tell the story of Wong Kim Ark in a moment when birthright citizenship is, in the process of being removed And so we really wanted to create some momentum around the storytelling, around the legacy of Wong Kim Ark, but also the legal implications and what it means for us to advocate and protect for birthright citizenship. And so I joined a couple of our local partners and particularly our team at Chinese for affirmative action to develop and create the first ever Wong Kim Ark Week. Officially known as born in the USA and the Fight for Citizenship, a week long series of events, specifically to honor the 127th anniversary of the Landmark Supreme Court case, US versus Wong Kim Ark, which affirmed birthright citizenship for all in the United States.    Miko Lee: [00:39:44] What will happen during this week-long celebration?   Nicholas Gee: [00:39:48] We have several scheduled events to raise awareness, mobilize the community, and really to stand up for the rights of all immigrants and their families. One is an incredible book Talk in conversation with author and activist Bianca Boutte. Louie, who recently authored a book called Unassimilable. And she tells a personal narrative and provides a sharp analysis for us to think about race and belonging and solidarity in America, particularly through an Asian American lens. This event is hosted by the Chinese Historical Society of America. Following. We have a live in-person community symposium on Wong Kim Ark legacy and the struggle for citizenship. There'll be a powerful community conversation with legal advocates, storytellers, movement builders, to have a dynamic conversation on the impact of birthright citizenship. Who is Wong Kim Ark? What is his enduring legacy and how people can join us for the ongoing struggle for justice? And you know, we actually have a special guest, Norman Wong, who is the great grandson of Wong Kim Ark. He'll be joining us for this special event. We have a couple of more events. One is a Chinatown History and Art Tour hosted by Chinese Culture Center, this is a small group experience where community members can explore Chinatown's vibrant history, art, and activism, and particularly we'll learn about the legacy of Wong Kim Ark and then lastly, we have a in-person press conference that's happening on Friday, which is we're gonna conclude the whole week of, Wong Kim Ark with a birthright, citizenship resolution and a Wong Kim Ark dedication. And so we'll be celebrating his enduring impact on Birthright citizenship and really these ongoing efforts to protect, our fundamental right. and the San Francisco Public Library is actually hosting an Asian American and Pacific Islander book display at the North Beach campus and they'll be highlighting various books and authors and titles inspired by themes of migration, community, and resilience. So those are our scheduled, events We're welcoming folks to join and folks can register, and check out more information at casf.org/WongKimArk    Miko Lee: [00:42:04] Thanks so much and we will post a link to that in our show notes. I'm wondering how many of those are in Chinese as well as English?    Nicholas Gee: [00:42:13] That is a fantastic question, Miko. We currently have the community symposium on Wong Kim Ark legacy in the struggle for citizenship. This event will have live interpretation in both Mandarin and Cantonese.    Miko Lee: [00:42:46] What would you like folks to walk away with? An understanding of what.    Nicholas Gee: [00:42:30] We really want people to continue to learn about the legacy of birthright citizenship and to become an advocate with us. We also have some information on our website, around what you can do to protect birthright citizenship. As an advocate, we are always thinking about how do we get people involved, to think about civic engagement intentional education and to tie that back to our advocacy. And so we have a couple of ways that we're inviting people to take action with us. One is to invite a friend to consider attending one of our events. If you're based here in the San Francisco Bay area or if you're online, join us for the book Talk with Bianca. , two, we're inviting folks to take action and oppose the executive order to ban birthright citizenship. Chinese for affirmative action has. A call to action where we can actually send a letter to petition , to oppose this executive order to send a message directly to our congressman or woman. and lastly, you know, we're asking people to learn about Wong Kim Ark as a whole, and to learn about the impacts of birthright citizenship. My hope is that folks walk away with more of an understanding of what does it mean here to be an advocate? What does it mean to take action across the community and really to communicate this is what resilience will look like in our community    Miko Lee: [00:43:44] Nick Gee, thank you so much for joining me on Apex Express. It was great to hear how people can get involved in the Wong Kim Ark week and learn more about actions and how they can get involved. We appreciate the work you're doing.    Nicholas Gee: [00:43:56] Thanks so much Miko, and I'm excited to launch this.   Miko Lee: [00:43:58] Welcome, Reverend Deb Lee, executive Director of Interfaith Movement for Human Integrity and part of the Network on Religion and justice. Thank you so much for coming on Apex Express.    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:44:09] Great to be here. Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:44:11] I would love you just personally to tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Rev. Deb Lee: [00:44:17] Wow. Well, my people are people in the Chinese diaspora. My family's been in diaspora for seven generations, from southern China to southeast to Asia. and then eventually to the United States. What I carry with me is just a huge sense of resistance and this idea of like, we can survive anywhere and we take our love and our family and our ancestor we gotta carry it with us. We don't always have land or a place to put it down into the ground, and so we carry those things with us. , that sense of resistance and resilience.    Miko Lee: [00:44:56] Thank you so much. I relate to that so much as a fifth generation Chinese American. To me, it's really that sense of resilience is so deep and powerful, and I'm wondering as a person from the faith community, if you could share about the relevance of Wong Kim Ark and Birthright citizenship.   Rev. Deb Lee: [00:45:12] Yeah, Wong Kim Ark is critical because he was somebody who really fought back against racist laws and really asserted his right to be part of this country, his right to have the Constitution apply to him too. I'm just so grateful for him and so many of the other Chinese Americans who fought back legally and resisted against in that huge wave of period of Chinese exclusion to create some of the really important immigration laws that we have today. I wouldn't be a citizen without birthright citizenship myself. Wong Kim Ark really established that every person who is born on this soil has a right to constitutional protection, has a right to be a citizen. And in fact, the Constitution in the 14th Amendment also applies to let equal treatment for everyone here, everyone who is here. You don't even have to be a citizen for the constitutional rights. And the Fourth Amendment, the fifth Amendment, the first amendment to apply to you. And those things are so under attack right now. It's so important to establish the equality. Of every person and the right for people here in this country to have safety and belonging, that everyone here deserves safety and belonging.    Miko Lee: [00:46:24] Thank you so much for lifting up that activist history. as, a person who was raised in a theological setting at a seminary, I was really raised around this ethos of love as an active tool and a way of fighting for civil rights, fighting for things that we believe in. And I'm wondering if you could talk about how you see that playing out in today. And especially as you know, this Trump regime has had such incredible impacts on immigrants and on so much of our activist history. I'm wondering if you have thoughts on that?    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:47:00] Well, so much of the civil rights history in this country, you know, going back to like the activism of Chinese Americans to establish some of those civil rights. You know, it goes back to this idea of like, who is fully human, who can be fully human, whose humanity will be fully recognized? And so I think that's what's connects back to my faith and connects back to faith values of the sacredness of every person, the full humanity, the full participation, the dignity. And so I think, Wong Kim Ark and the other, like Chinese American activists, they were fighting for like, you know, we don't wanna just be, we're gonna just gonna be laborers. We're not just going to be people who you can, Bring in and kick out whenever you want, but like, we want to be fully human and in this context of this nation state, that means being fully citizens.And so I think that that struggle and that striving to say we want that full humanity to be recognized, that is a fundamental kind of belief for many faith traditions, which, you know, speak to the radical equality of all people and the radical dignity of all people, that can't be taken away, but that has to really be recognized. What's under attack right now is. So much dehumanization, stigmatization of people, you know, based on race, based on class, based on gender, based on what country people were born in, what papers they carry, you know, if they ever had contact, prior contact with the law, like all these things. You know, are immediately being used to disregard someone's humanity. And so I think those of us who come from a faith tradition or who just share that kind of sense of, value and, deep humanism in other people, that's where we have to root ourselves in this time in history and really being, you know, we are going to defend one another's humanity and dignity, at all costs.   Miko Lee: [00:48:55] Thank you for that. I'm wondering if there are other lessons that we can learn from Wong Kim Ark, I mean, the time when he fought back against, this was so early in 1894, as you mentioned, the Chinese exclusion acts and I'm wondering if there are other lessons that we can learn from him in, in our time when we are seeing so many of our rights being eroded.   Rev. Deb Lee: [00:49:17] I think that there's so many ways, that we think about how did people organize then like, you know, it's challenging to organize now, but if you can imagine organizing then, and I'm thinking, you know, when Chinese people were required to carry identification papers and you know, on mass they refused to do that and they. Practice, like a form of civil disobedience. And I think we're at this time now, like the Trump administration's telling anybody here who's unauthorized to come forward and to register well, I think people need to think twice about that. And people are, there are many other things that they're trying to impose on the immigrant community and I think one like lesson is like, how do people survive through a period of exclusion and we are today in a period of exclusion. That really goes back to the mid 1980s, when there was, last, a significant immigration reform that created a pathway to citizenship. Only for about 3 million people. But after that, since that time in the mid 1980s, there has been no other pathways to citizenship, no other forms of amnesty, no other ways for people to fix their status.So in fact, we are already in another 40 year period of exclusion again. And so one of those lessons is how do people survive this period? Like right, and left. They're taking away all the laws and protections that we had in our immigration system. They were very narrow already. Now even those are being eliminated and any form of compassion or discretion or leniency or understanding has been removed. So I think people are in a period of. Survival. How do we survive and get through? And a lot of the work that we're doing on sanctuary right now we have a sanctuary people campaign, a sanctuary congregations campaign is how do we walk alongside immigrants to whom there is no path. There is no right way. there is no opening right now. But walk with them and help support them because right now they're trying to squeeze people so badly that they will self deport. And leave on their own. This is part of a process of mass expulsion but if people really believe that they want to stay and be here, how do we help support people to get through this period of exclusion until there will be another opening? And I believe there will be like our, our history kind of spirals in and out, and sometimes there are these openings and that's something I take from the faith communities. If you look at Chinese American history in this country, the role that faith communities played in walking with the immigrant community and in supporting them, and there's many stories that help people get through that period of exclusion as well.   Miko Lee: [00:51:52] Deb, I'm wondering what you would say to folks. I'm hearing from so many people [say] I can't read the news. It's too overwhelming. I don't wanna get involved. I just have to take care of myself. And so I'm just waiting. And even James Carville, the political opponent, say we gotta play dead for a few years. What are your thoughts on this?    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:52:11] Well, we can't play totally dead. I wish the Democrats wouldn't be playing dead, but I think that a person of faith, we have to stay present we don't really have the option to check out and we actually have to be in tune with the suffering. I think it would be irresponsible for us to. You know, turn a blind eye to the suffering. And I wanna encourage people that actually opportunities to walk with people who are being impacted and suffering can actually be deeply, fulfilling and can help give hope and give meaning. And there are people who are looking for solidarity right now. We are getting a lot of calls every week for someone who just wants them, wants someone to go to their court or go to the ice, check-in with them, and literally just like walk three blocks down there with them and wait for them. To make sure they come out. And if they don't come out to call the rapid response hotline, it doesn't take much. But it's a huge act like this is actually what some of the immigrant communities are asking for, who are millions of people who are under surveillance right now and have to report in. So those small acts of kindness can be deeply rewarding in this. Sea of overwhelming cruelty. And I think we have an obligation to find something that we can do. , find a way, find a person, find someone that we can connect to support and be in solidarity with and think about people in our past. Who have accompanied us or accompanied our people and our people's journey. And when those acts of kindness and those acts of neighbors and acts of friendship have meant so much I know like my family, they still tell those stories of like, this one person, you know, in Ohio who welcome them and said hello. We don't even know their names. Those acts can be etched in people's hearts and souls. And right now people need us.    Miko Lee: [00:53:59] Oh, I love that. I've talked with many survivors of the Japanese American concentration camps, and so many of them talk about the people of conscience, meaning the people that were able to step up and help support them during, before and after that time. Lastly, I'm wondering, you're naming some really specific ways that people can get engaged, and I know you're deeply involved in the sanctuary movement. Can you provide us with ways that people can find out more? More ways to get involved in some of the work that you are doing.    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:54:29] I'll put a plug in for our website. It's www dot I am number four, human integrity.org. So it's, iam4humanintegrity.org. We work with families that are impacted facing deportation, looking for all kinds of ways to get the community to rally around folks and support and we work with faith communities who are thinking about how to become sanctuary congregations and how to be an important resource in your local community. The other organizations, I would say sign up for Bay Resistance. They're organizing a lot of volunteers that we call on all the time we're working with. We're, you know, working with many organizations, the Bay Area, to make sure that a new ice detention facility does not get built. They are looking at the potential site of Dublin. We've worked really hard the last decade to get all the detention centers out of Northern California. We don't want them to open up a new one here.   Miko Lee: [00:55:27] Deb Lee, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express and folks can actually see Deb on Tuesday night in Wong Kim Ark Week as one of the speakers. Thank you so much for joining us.    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:55:38] Thank you, Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:55:39] Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. We're gonna close this episode with words from Norman Wong, the great grandson of Wong Kim Ark.   Norman Wong: [00:55:49] So let's fight back. Threats to birthright citizenship will only divide us, and right now we need to come together to continue the impact of my great grandfather's. This is my family's legacy, and now it's part of yours too. Thank you    Miko Lee: [00:56:11] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.    The post APEX Express – 3.20.25- Wong Kim Ark appeared first on KPFA.

The only Chinese hospital in the country has survived because of its community's resilience. Today, we look at continuity of care in a local Chinese community. Then, a Democratic Club representing Asian Pacific Islander residents in San Francisco… moves to the right.And, we hear from The Dating Apps Reporting Project about how dating apps are not as safe as they market themselves to be.  A Century of Care: San Francisco's Chinese Hospital SOTB: SF's Asian Americans Shift Right? Dating apps track bad actors but fail to ban them

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express Host Miko Lee continues the series on the Asian Prisoner Support Committee's campaign for justice for the APSC 4. The APSC4 are Ke Lam, Peejay Ai, Chanthon Bun and Maria Legarda. All are formerly incarcerated folx who have served their time and are currently incredibly valued leaders, advocates and healers in the community. They are also part of the staff of Asian Prisoner Support Committee and all are at risk of deportation.  In our most recent episode we showcased an interview with all of the APSC4, in our upcoming shows we will center on each person's individual story. Tonight we focus on Maria Legarde. Thank you to the HHREC Podcast for allowing us to re-air a portion of their show, which will be linked in our show notes. Maria's story is also featured in the zine we was girls together by Trần Châu Hà. The zine is on display in the Walking Stories exhibit at Edge on the Square in San Francisco Chinatown until February 28th.  For more information: Thank you to the HHREC Podcast for allowing us to rebroadcast part of their interview with Maria. Asian American Histories of Resistance timeline For tickets to Edge on the Square event APSC 4: https://action.18mr.org/pardonapsc3/ APSC Website: https://www.asianprisonersupport.com/ APSC Donation Page: https://donate.givedirect.org/?cid=13… APSC Get Involved Page: https://www.asianprisonersupport.com/apsc-4 Appreciation to the HHRC Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@thehhrecpodcast83   Twitter:   / asianprisonersc   Facebook:   / asianprisonersupportcommittee   Instagram:   / asianprisonersc     SHOW TRANSCRIPT: APSC4 Part 2: Maria's Story   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:02:01] Thank you for joining us tonight on Apex Express. Welcome to the second part in our series on the Asian Prisoner Support Committee's Campaign for Justice for the APSC4. The APSC4 are Ke Lam, Peejay Ai , Chanthon Bun, and Maria Legarda. All are formerly incarcerated folks who have served their time and are currently incredibly valued leaders, advocates, and healers in the community. They are also part of the staff of Asian Prisoner Support Committee, and all are at risk of deportation. You can help today by urging Governor Newsom to pardon APSC4, and protect them from deportation, which you can find the links for in our show notes. In our most recent episode, we showcased an interview with all of the APSC4. In our upcoming shows, we will center on each person's individual story. Tonight we focus on Maria Legarda. Thank you to the HHREC podcast for allowing us to re-air a portion of their show, which will be linked in our show notes. Maria's story is also featured in the zine we was girls together by Trần Châu Hà. The zine is on display in the Walking Stories exhibit at Edge on the Square in San Francisco Chinatown until February 28th. You can come view the zine in person at the Walking Stories closing event, arriving with our stories on February 28th, 2025, at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown, from 6 to 8 pm. Co presented by Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, Asian Prisoner Support Committee and Edge on the Square, featuring readings from Asian Prisoner Support Committee's recent anthology, Arriving, Freedom Writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders, along with a panel discussion with the APSC4. Maria's story, the one we'll hear tonight, that is also featured in the exhibit, echoes the broader themes of the Arriving anthology, Where AAPI community members share their journeys through criminalization, deportation, and reentry. These narratives expose the deep entanglement of the prison and immigration systems while humanizing and making visible the resilience of those impacted. The link to RSVP for the event will be included in the show notes, where you can also choose to donate 25 and receive a copy of the anthology. this event marks the closing ceremony of the yearlong exhibition walking stories, but also a commitment to the ongoing work to center the voices and stories of system impacted individuals through the oral testimonies of those still incarcerated and the panel discussion with community leaders of APSC4, a space where storytelling is not just a practice of remembrance, but a demand for justice and an ongoing continuing call to action is created. So join us at arriving with our stories on February 28th, 2025, from 6 to 8 PM at Edge on the Square, 800 Grant Avenue, San Francisco, California. Find the full details in our show notes and at edge on the square. org. Now let's listen to Maria Legarda share her journey content warnings for mentions of sexual violence, substance abuse, death, incarceration, and trauma.   Maria Legarda: [00:05:10] So I grew up in the Philippines, with my grandparents. My first years had the fondest memories there. Couple of years later, we moved to our new home. Had my baby brother and we moved and a couple years later, my sister was born. She had a medical condition when she was born and I saw the change in our household. You know, as she got older, her condition worsened and it took a toll on our family slowly. I withdrew from my folks, detached and I, I built a resentment towards my parents. I was young, this is what we used to have. And this is what's happening now, what's going on. You know, there was no emotional support when we were growing up, me and my brother. The focus was, Trying to get my sister better, you know, but I was young, I was young, and my brother was young for us to understand, you know, what was going on in our household, and, that started the separation between me, my parents, It was tough growing up, I'm the eldest and so I had to be responsible, you know, for my younger siblings and I didn't know. I didn't know what to do. so. When I got older, you know, my dad urged me to go to the U. S., you know, years where our family was in debt. And when I came to the U. S., I saw the opportunity to help my parents actually get out of debt, and help them. I didn't know the cost, the burden that it's going to cost me. being in a different country, and supporting my family alone. And I did everything that I could to help my parents and my siblings, not be in poverty. Not live day to day and have a future for them. but at the same time, being a young adult in America, when I immigrated here, it was after 9/11. So there was a lot of, society was different at that time and finding my place during that time was hard, you know, and I was alone, I was working hard. I was stressed, you know, I didn't have much help. ,and that started the drug use. it was hard for me to assimilate into a culture that it just looks, it's great. You know, being free and being able to experience a lot of different things, but deep down, I don't know how to, Find my place here. You know, I didn't have friends and I have my cousin, And I was dealing with a lot of the tension at home, too You know my mom dealing with my sister's death She passed away Dealing with the money issues dealing with her marriage I was her emotional support, and as a young adult, I don't know how to provide that for my family. And so the drug use became my coping here in a new country with new friends, and I just got tired of being hurt and being pain and, you know, the trauma of losing my sister. How do I deal with that? Losing my family because we were lost, you know, with her. And how do you cope from that?    Drugs became my coping. I was numb. I was happy, you know, because I didn't hurt anymore. and, you know, being alone here in the U. S., I turned to online chatting. That's where friendships, I found friendships in there. I was very young and naive and, You know, I met a man online who said all the right things, words, that I felt loved and cared for, for somebody like me that was so desperate for emotional connection and just to feel loved that was huge for me to find that one person to give me that attention. And so for six months, you know, I felt I was at the happiest in my life because I had somebody to turn to, I had somebody to talk to. And, I felt that I, you know, I have somebody with me that understands what I'm going through, um, when my own family is not there for me because they're too busy trying to take care of their own needs. And, um, you know, we started talking and, after six months, he promised to, um, take me out on a date. and when we met, um, it was fun, you know, for the first time seeing somebody behind, you know, the, the conversations and seeing him in person, it was nice. It's real. Right. And, you know, everything happened so fast at that time that, I was excited, but then there's that fear and, you know, we were on our way to where we were going at, you For our first date and he veered off to a hotel and, you know, in my inexperience you know, I was hoping that, okay, why are we veering off to this? This wasn't part of what we talked about, but things were happening so fast and I was engaged in the conversations and what we're going to do, or we're just going to go and see. And, you know, I was very vulnerable and I went with it. And before I knew it. I was at the hotel, you know, with him and, I was hoping and praying that nothing bad would happen, but unfortunately, you know, I was alone and knowing that it was just me and him soon enough, the inevitable would happen. And our first meeting, our first date, I was raped, you know, and, all the signs were there, you know, that desperate for that human connection and that, you know, I trusted him. I trusted him that, you know, he was a good person, but it happened, after that I went home and I told myself that it didn't happen. Pretended that it didn't happen. my mind and my body just disassociated, you know, from what just happened and, you know, went to bed the next day, went to work, like it never happened, like nothing happened. That intensified my drug use. It was my way of coping. Every time I hurt, every time I'm in pain, I feel pain, I feel hurt. I turned to drugs because it made me numb and it made me function. You know, I am able to function and continue on with the next day. Why? Because I have a family who's waiting for me, that depends on me, and I need to take care of them. and that's how it was for me.    For the next months, few months later, I found out that I was pregnant from the rape. And when I found out I was pregnant, I stopped using. You know, I was torn and at the same time I was still hoping there was still that small hope that what I had with him was real and I was suffering. Now I know that back then I was suffering from post traumatic, battered women's syndrome. I never got help from what happened that day. and so with the baby I have this, thought that maybe if he knew that I was pregnant, that he would come back to me. That's how my mindset was. I wanted my rapist to come back into my life. That's how desperate I was, you know, was alone. And I wasn't in the right state of mind, you know, with deep in my addiction, not being able to think rationally. By the time I, I asked, you know, for help, I asked my parents if they could, um, come and visit me here in the United States. I didn't know how to tell my mom about my addiction, about the rape, that I just needed them and they couldn't be there for me. And with everything else that's going on in my life, I hit, finally hit my rock bottom and I relapse, I relapse and I used, and me using far along in my pregnancy. That night induced my pregnancy, um, induced labor. And so the following morning, I went into premature labor. Again, I was alone in my room when they induced labor. I was in my bathroom and I gave birth to my son. I got him, picked him up, wrapped him in a towel, and when he wasn't breathing, I panicked. Wrapped him in a towel and put him in the room. And after that I went to go take care and get ready for work. What am I supposed to do with my baby not breathing? got ready for work, called the cab so I can go to work. I didn't make it to work because um, the cab driver took me to the hospital because I was so pale and I lost so much blood. And, um, so I stayed in the hospital and later on, um, medical staff was there. and, you know, the cops were there and I was arrested, I was sentenced to 25 years to life, for the death of my son.    I was 24 when I sat in the holding cell of California's biggest women's prison sitting there thinking, this is what. Life is going to be like for me. What is life going to be like for me? How did I get here, you know, and I was, I was in so much denial. You know, I was in so much denial I don't even know where to start. Because at that time, sitting there at that holding cell, I was still in a victim mode. You know, I knew I was responsible for the death of my son, but the extent of it, I couldn't even grasp the severity of how much harm I've caused. And for 14 years, I immersed myself in self help groups to make sure that I understood what happened that night, what happened at that time, you know, 25 years, there's no amount of punishment that I think would, would equate because I give that punishment to myself every single day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think like, okay, today he would have been 19 years old. I wondered if he was playing basketball, would I take him to football games? Would I take him to baseball games? Like, what would it be like for him? You know, when my parents came to visit, Those were questions like my dad would want it to know, my mom would want it to know, and it's the big elephant in the room, we don't talk about it. But today, um, I hold, I am, you know, I hold responsibility, accountability for all my actions that led to that dreadful night. You know, when, when I went to board and I was found suitable, you know, one of the, one of the programs that, really helped me was, um, We're just to life, you know, forgiveness I have to find forgiveness in myself for what I've done for my past decisions in order for me to move on and make a difference in, you know, for people. If I wanted to help people, how am I supposed to help people if I can't even start healing within me? you know, took all the self help groups so I could have that understanding of where do I need to start in order for me to have a future and so that people around me, I wouldn't hurt anymore the people, those people that are around me. My family, my friends, even people that I don't know that when they see me, they wouldn't get scared of the person that they knew came from prison. You know, that was sentenced to 25 to life for killing her own son. I don't want to be that person. So. I took advantage of all the groups that, you know, were, were offered to us and I earned that second chance. when I went to board and to really deep, look deep in, deep down and where was that anger coming from? You know, why was it so hard for me to ask for help? And the biggest part that I learned was stepping out of denial, acknowledging that the rape happened, that it wasn't my fault, that I could overcome that and, I could take control back, you know, take that back and turn my life around and use that. You know, motivate myself to, find healing and forgiveness.    Today I'm a re-entry consultant for APSC. I help folks that are coming home from jails, from prisons, from detention centers. I help them navigate, you know, in their re entry. You know, coming home from detention, so after I, you after I paroled from CCWF, I knew that I would be, I had an ice hold and I would be detained and ICE came and picked me up in CCWF in 2019. You know, the first day of being free, I was welcomed with shackles, with handcuffs and a waist chain around my waist chain. And, I was walking, you know, into a white van and I drove off to the Holding cell, the ice holding cell, and I was on the road for 72 hours back and forth because they, they have nowhere to, put me, all the ice facility detention centers were, I guess, they were packed and they have no room for me. So they finally made room for me and I was in the Delanto where I stayed for 11 months. And. You know, when I was there, I'm just like Bun said, once they get you there, they ask you sign the paperwork, you deport, or you want to fight your case. And I've met Anoop, Anoop prepared me, you know, for when that day comes, like I just needed to let them know that, no, you're fighting because you have people, the community, the family here fighting alongside you. And that's what I told them. I said, no, I'm not. signing, I will go through the process and it was very, it was a very different experience, you know, with being sentenced to 25 years to life than being told, you have to sign this paper because I'm deporting you back to your country because you're not a citizen. You know, they don't see the changed person. They only see the person that was not born here in the United States. They don't see the person that has a family in the community waiting outside that building. They only see a convicted felon that has an aggravated felony that's not a U.S. citizen that needs to get deported back to the country where they were born. So knowing that every day, and I've always said it, you know, every moment in detention center is like a cliffhanger moment. You'll never know when your day is going to be when you don't come back to the dorm and you get shipped off and get sent to a plane. And then next thing you know, the next phone call your family gets is that you're in a country where you don't know where you're going. So that's what it was like in the detention center.    You know, it was the onset of COVID when I was able to file, a writ because of my medical condition. And by the grace of God, you know, with the community behind me, Anoop too, was very instrumental. I was released Friday when everybody was telling me that you're not going to get released. You know, the cutoff date, the cutoff time is six o'clock and you're not going to get released and you're not going to get a bond hearing. You're not going to you're not going to get released from here. There's just no hope for you. You know, that's what they tell us in, in detention, you know, there's the chances of us being released from detention. Once ICE has a hold of you is very, very slim. So for us, that's. small hope is really just a teeny tiny window for us. But it takes a community, you know, to work together to get us all out. And I have that support with Anoop, with APSC. So at six o'clock on a Friday, when they said that the judge is not going to rule today, you're going to have to wait. And the last, The last process already for people that were getting released were already done. There's, you're, that's it. You're not gonna get it. But 6:30 came. It was after count time. All the tablets in the detention center was ringing and it was a phone call for me and all I saw was my grandma on the other line saying that, she was crying, crying, hysterically crying. And so my heart dropped because I thought, okay, this is it. I'm getting deported, what I didn't know, was Anoop and my grandma were constantly in communication trying to get me out and the judge made a decision a little after six that before five o'clock Saturday morning, they are to release me. And, it took the community, you know, to get, to make that happen. And on April of 2019, I was released from Adelanto and I was released to Los Angeles. I couldn't, parole to San Francisco, to the Bay area because, um, of COVID shelter in place.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:23:30] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org. We'll be right back to Maria's story after we listen to “7,000 Miles” by Ruby Ibarra featuring Ann One.   MUSIC   That was “7,000 Miles” by Ruby Ibarra, featuring Anne One. You are listening to Apex Express. Now let's get back to Maria Legarda ‘s story.   Phillip Winnick: [00:28:19] Um, Maria, how long did you know Anoop throughout this process when you were in the detention center? Um, and how did you manage to get to San Francisco?    Maria Legarda: [00:28:31] So I've known Anoop since 2015, end of 2015, beginning of 2016, right before board. I needed to seek his advice about, you know, my ICE detainer and how long. Like what the process is going to be, if I choose to fight it, if I don't fight it. And around that time, you know, we just had a new president in the Philippines and what would it look like for me if I don't win my case? Like, what are the chances, you know? So that's how we started corresponding, 2015, I prepped for board and then, um, when I got out in 2019, Prior to that, 2018, we started, corresponding frequently, more frequently because, My board date, um, is coming up, and, you know, when they ask me about questions about immigration, like, what do I say, Anoop, like, because the board wants to know everything, just like Bun mentioned before. They want to see the big picture. If we grant you parole, what are you going to do? So when it comes to immigration, like, what are your plans? So I have to have a realistic, it needs to be realistic for me. You know, there's no ifs and buts. I have to like, Anoop, what do I do? And if it's not possible, then I have to have a plan B, you know? So that's how we started corresponding and Anoop guided me in a lot of my preparation. and before I went to Adelanto, he prepped me step by steps on what it It's gonna look like for me once ICE picks me up and everything was on point, you know, they came and got me an R& R, I left around nine o'clock, the white van came and picked me up, I went to Fresno holding cell from there, they're gonna, assign me a, facility, you know, so that's how it started. And then when I ended up in Adelanto after 72 hours, they finally were able to locate me just like, when, you know, Anoop has a way of, you know, it's like a, you know, We have a GPS within us and Anoop just knows where to find us. So finally, you know, my grandma was telling me that Anoop told her that I was in Adelanto and, you know, later on I'm going to be in the system. And so, when I got there, everything that Anoop told me to, like, when you get there and they ask you for your signature, you tell them that, you're fighting your case, this is what's happening. You give them my number and, you know, so that's the step by step process.    And, that's, that's how Anoop got me, situated when I got to Adelanto and in preparing for my, my hearing, he walked me through it too. from the Bay Area, I was all the way to like, what, San Bernardino County in Adelanto and he was guiding me every step of the way. He had some, The Advancing Justice LA kind of like helped me, you know, with representing. Um, so I have extra help, and then preparing for CAT hearing, preparing for, just, you know, the whole time that I was in Adelanto, I was in constant communication with Anoop. Sometimes it's not even about legal support, just emotional support. Like, okay. Anoop you have to, you have to just tell me. Tell me what I'm looking at. Tell me what I need to do. What are my next steps? What are my chances? And that really helped a lot, you know, stepping out of denial. That was my life story or, you know, I'm always in denial. And so this time, like, no, Anoop I need to know, like, what am I looking at? and so when. when it wasn't going, it didn't look well, you know, for me, as far as my hearing, it gave me all my probabilities, And I know what I need to do. So that's how we, I've always, um, until today, I still seek Anoop's advice about everything. you know, not being able to get my ID, like Anoop would be my next step, not being able to get, I said, some paperwork, some documents. So every step of the way in this whole journey, he's always been our, You know, emotional support, legal support, in everything.   Anoop Prasad: [00:32:40] I think what's really amazing and special at APSC is I met most of the staff at APSC when they were incarcerated. And most of the APSC staff first met each other in prison, often when they were just kids. And I think that makes APSC just like such a special place. Um, and I met Maria through Nia Norn, who's our co director and met Maria at CCW Afton prison. Um, and I'd been writing Nia about her ICE hold and her deportation when she was serving a life sentence. and then she over mail introduced me to Maria and I started writing with Maria. and there's this ripple effect of hope and freedom from every person who gets out and Maria has helped so many other people and she got out, get out of prison and out of ICE and same with Bun.That's helped so many other folks in San Quentin and throughout the entire prison system get out. And so it's really amazing seeing folks come home and then come back to get other folks out.    Phillip Winnick: [00:33:33] Yeah, it's incredible. Um, Maria, why don't you tell us about some of the experiences you had, um, helping people out with the APSC?   Maria Legarda: [00:33:41] Oh, where do I start?    Phillip Winnick: [00:33:43] Most memorable, I guess.    Maria Legarda: [00:33:44] Yeah, the most memorable. you know, I've been sober for 20 plus years now and, one of my clients, um, when I introduced myself to her, I always introduced myself as a formerly incarcerated individual because I don't want them to feel that I'm, you know, most of my clients have had traumas and have been judged for a very long time. And I don't want them to think that I'm law enforcement or anything like that. And so I always tell them, oh, hi, my name is Maria and I'm formerly incarcerated. I served 14, 15 years and they're like, what? And so that opens up, you know the, the door and it becomes an easy conversation to have. And so when one of my clients, she told me that Maria, I'm 20 months sober. I was like, Oh, I'm so happy for you. And she's like, really? It's like, yes. Don't you know that it's an accomplishment? It's like, why? It's like, Oh my God, you just give me one day. I'd be the happiest person. And she said, why? Because I'm 20 years sober, 20 plus years sober. You're 20 months. You're going to get to where I'm at. And so that started that conversation and that just bond between us. She's, you know, she, she's worked hard and she needed some help in different aspects of, you know, her trying to get her life together. Like Maria, I need to get my kids. Um, I'm in the process. What do I do? It's like, okay, don't worry. We're going to find you some resources. We're going to find you some, help with the law clinics and see who can take your case. And we'll start from that. It's like, okay. she needs housing. We signed her up for a housing and, it didn't work out for her because she already participated in a similar program. So what we did was, okay, maybe we should start, you know, asking your CPS and this is what we're going to do. So having case plan goals in order for her to see what would best suit her, what she wants to do in life and what she wants for her kids. we worked on that, you know. and her desire to be a substance abuse counselor.​​ The team, actually, I had talked to [unintelligible]. We need to help her get enrolled and she doesn't have, financially, she's struggling. She has three kids on coming back to her. You know, she's getting her custody, her three kids custody back. So, you know, her hands are gonna be full. we need to help her. What do we do? He's like Maria, enroll her. Like, I can? Like, yes, enroll her. I was like, really? I can enroll her? And to me, when my boss said I can enroll her, I was like, oh my god, that's like, you know, you're giving something. Like, that's a gift. It, it doesn't cost a lot, but that's her future. That's the kid's future. And her having, you know, a career after that. She's been on drugs for as long as she remembers, right? So that's the greatest achievement for her at that time to be a substance abuse counselor. And just like, Maria, can you please help me find a class and to be able to do that? That's why I'm doing the work that I do because if I can make a difference, even just by enrolling them, you know, what other programs do that? I don't know if they do that, out of their organization's pocket to sponsor somebody, you know, for higher education. So that was one of my memorable moments helping one of my clients get her classes to become a substance abuse counselor. Thank you.    You know, and then the other one, we had one of our clients struggling with substance abuse and, his wife called me and she's not actually our client, but you know, we're all about family reunification. So if the wife, if the kids are having trouble and they have my phone number, they can reach out to us and we'll help them. Right. And she reached out and she felt really this burden of guilt because. Like Maria, I don't want to turn him in, but like he was drunk and being a, being a domestic violence survivor, right? I told her like, look, the first, that's the best, like, he's not going to be mad at you because you put your daughter's care and your care in your life first before anything and because I know he's a good father to her and a good man to you, besides that, you know, addiction, it creeps up on you and it crept up on him. And I said, you did the right thing. You did the right thing for him, because when the time comes, you were his accountable, accountability partner. So, you guys are both responsible for your daughter, and you did the right thing. And just walking her through that, because the guilt that was eating her up, because the whole family's mad at her because she put him there, she shouldn't have to go through that alone. You know, so, just taking the time, throughout the week and checking up on her. Do you need food? I can, we have pantry available for you. like, do you need diapers formula for the kid, for your daughter? Like, we have somewhere, a place that you can go to, to get some help in these trying times. And she's like, okay, Maria, I'm going. So other than the emotional support and you know, the, other things that she needs, just getting her through that toughest time, there's just no, there's no, amount of like, there's no satisfaction other than seeing a mother and the daughter being together and then now reunited with, you know, them reunited as a family.    Phillip Winnick: [00:39:19] The feeling of you helping people who feel alone in a situation that you are similar to, and that you felt alone in, what is that feeling of being able to give these, these people somebody to talk to who have been through what, what they've been through?   Maria Legarda: [00:39:38] You know, it feels good is not even like amount to it because, um, I always wondered what if somebody, you know, what if somebody took their time, you to ask me, like, Maria, is everything okay? I felt like that could have. You know, that could have made a difference. Maybe not, but I wouldn't know, right. Because of what I went through, but I don't want that to be me. So when people come my way, I, I encounter people and, you know, I get a sense of like, what's going on, you know, like what's going on in your life. Like, you know, to have a conversation and just get to know them just a little bit, Then that's when I know, you know, like, okay, this is what they're going through. So let me just walk them through it. Why? Because some people don't even know that they need that at that moment, at that time. You know, I, I didn't know that maybe, you know, if one of the lifer OGs, you know, and in the beginning of my time, if she didn't make an effort and say like, baby, you know, you can be more than just this around you. There's hope out there for you. And that, gave me that small window of hope that maybe there is a chance for me to get out of this place and see myself outside these walls, right? So when I encounter people and I know that they've been in situations, I don't know exactly what it is, I'll just give some time and just get to know, talk to them just a little bit. Just a little bit to see, like, what is it that you need? Maybe that's, you know, a few seconds would make a difference, right? So if that's what it needs, if that's what somebody needs, a few seconds of my time to deter them from making that one major, decision in their life that's gonna alter the course, right, of their life and go down that path that I went down on, like, that I've gone through, if I can prevent them from that. Then I did my job for that day, not my job, but I did what I'm supposed to do, you know, I felt like I went through all these obstacles in life because I have a purpose now, you know, and it's not about saving everybody, but just being there for that person at that moment when it counts.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:42:01] We'll be right back after the next song, “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera.   MUSIC   You are listening to Apex Express. That was “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. Thanks again to the HHREC podcast for allowing us to re-air a portion of their show. Let's get back to it.   Phillip Winnick: [00:46:22] That's incredible. And I'm so happy for you that you found that for yourself. Why don't you, you were, you were talking about the support groups a little bit earlier. Why don't you, uh, tell me more about that?    Maria Legarda: [00:46:33] Oh, so APSC, created, me and my director created, community and, re entry empowerment, which stands for CARE. It's APSC's first women's support group for formerly incarcerated women and transgender folks here in the Bay Area. And. You know, after years of incarceration, you know, navigating in, society, right, coming back home, transitioning into society, there's a lot of overwhelming experiences and obstacles that we all go through. And so I know a lot of people. Women need that support, but where do we get that support? So we've been in a lot of re entry groups, support groups, and men have it, like they have it it's, you know, it's available for them, but what about the women? And so when we started it, um, we started with 24 people, asking is this something that you're interested in? And majority of them said, yes, like, we need this because women wear many hats, you know, some are daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers, and there's a lot in their lives that they go through. and as formerly incarcerated, not everybody understands what it's like. So for us, you know, it's, we live right next to each other, right? If I need help and I need support, I'm going to knock on the door like, Hey, you got a few minutes. Like, cause I need to talk right now. Like, okay, come on. We'll walk down the yard, walk down and hash it out, talk and, you know, what's going on with you. It's like, I'm going through it. We can just talk. But now being out here, some live in the Bay area, some live in Antioch, some live in Pittsburgh, some live in Dinuba, some live up the mountains, like how do you find that support? Right? Some are tech challenged. They don't know how to zoom. They don't know how to FaceTime. So how do you do that? So we. made it possible for them, you know, to find, to have that space where we can meet every month and check in and see what's happening with it, with each other. You know, what's going on? What kind of support do you need? What resources do you need? Who do you need to get connected with? And, you know, being in that support group for six months, it's like I never left my sisters inside. You know, the bond that we formed, and I know Bun can, you know, relate to this, the bond that we formed, you know, in those walls, it just continued in that Zoom space, you know, and it, recharged, that motivation, that encouragement that we've always looked out for each other when we were inside. So now that we're out here, like, no, it doesn't mean that just because we're all out that we have to stop. So that space being created for us, we were able to reconnect and help each other out and playing phone tag and have text thread messages and emails. And so it just needed to get started. Like, no, this is what we're going to do. This is how we can be there for each other. And so the program was a success. You know, we graduated in December. We started with 24, but due to work conflicts, we graduated with 19 women, who participated and completed the program. We had three in person events. Their whole family came with us with a graduation. And the one thing we wanted for our graduates, our participants, is that to spend a weekend with their family without having to worry about, Oh my God, we're going to have to travel. It's going to cost us money. No. We wanted them to spend time with each other as a unit, as a family, because of all those years that they were separated. Right. And not only that, be in the same space with the sisters that they've left, that they've been celebrating Christmases for two decades that's how much time these women have spent with each other. And now that they're out, they just needed to find a place to, you know, have a reunion. But at the same time, continue what we have when we were inside. Cause it doesn't mean it has to stop. So now with the success of the program, We're getting emails and we're getting, you know, when can we start the next group? When can I participate? When can I come over? Am I going to be able to come to the Bay Area reunion? So there's that hope, you know, that they're not alone because, like we know now it's, you know, these are challenging and difficult times and we're here, you know, we we just. Don't leave any of our sisters behind we just come on we got you just like we've always had each other's backs.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:51:18] You can learn more about Maria's story in the zine we was girls together by Trần Châu Hà. It portrays the story that you just heard along with more details. Maria's story is one of many. She's a survivor of gender based violence, forced to migrate to the United States due to the economic consequences of Western imperialism in the Philippines. Migrant women like Maria experience the compounding forces of colonialism, border exclusion, and economic exploitation in the United States, making them even more vulnerable to abusive relationships. In their attempts to survive, these women are usually met with criminal punishment rather than support or care. An estimated 94 percent of those in women's facilities are abuse survivors. In the absence of state sanctioned support, these women turn to one another, building their own networks of care and advocacy for each other's freedom. These networks illuminate the nature in which feminist care work is inherently a practice of racial solidarity between Black, Brown, Indigenous, and API women. The zine we was girls together, seeks to honor Maria's story alongside that of her community of incarcerated women, documenting their solidarity campaigns, mutual aid projects, and life affirming relationships to one another. Thank you so much for joining us. We hope you will have the opportunity to join the live event on February 28th and to take action in support of the APSC4. You can also find out more about Maria and the APSC4 in the Asian American Histories of Resistance Timeline that is both online and in augmented reality form in the gallery. This timeline spans from 1873 to present day. We have interviewed scholar Helen Zia on Apex Express multiple times. She talks about moments that are MIH, or missing in history. In the timeline, Acre, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, presents moments of our Asian American story that are MIH. One of those stories is about Maria. Apex Express is a proud member of ACRE, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. We are committed to fighting for a more just and equitable world. As Grace Lee Boggs said, We are the leaders we've been waiting for.   Miko Lee: [00:53:26] Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.    The post APEX Express – 2.13.25 – Arriving APSC4 Maria's Story appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight join Host Miko Lee as we focus on the APSC4. We will be doing a short series on the members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee's campaign for justice. In this first episode we speak with all four leaders, advocates from APSC4 including: Peejay Ai, Maria Lagarda, Kee Lam, and Chanthon Bun. They are staff at Asian Prisoner Support Committee who work with formerly incarcerated folks and their families. They provide support like jobs, healthcare, education, community. And yet, despite their work and their personal transformations and community transformations, they remain in immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ICE and potentially deported. Tonight, we hear their personal stories. We learn about movement building and talk about how you can get involved. And just a note for listeners that we will be talking about experiences with war. trauma, sexual assault, and violence.   How to support the APSC4 APSC 4: https://action.18mr.org/pardonapsc3/ APSC Website: https://www.asianprisonersupport.com/ APSC Donation Page: https://donate.givedirect.org/?cid=13… APSC Get Involved Page: https://www.asianprisonersupport.com/apsc-4 Twitter:   / asianprisonersc   Facebook:   / asianprisonersupportcommittee   Instagram:   / asianprisonersc     Arriving: APSC4 Part 1 Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:34] Welcome to our multiple part series about the members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee, APSC4, and their campaign for justice. First up is an interview with all four. In the next episodes, we'll be diving into their individual stories. Special thanks to the HHREC podcast for allowing us to re-air their shows, which will be linked in our show notes.   Miko Lee: [00:00:56] Tonight on Apex Express, we have members of the APSC4, Asian Prisoner Support Committee's formerly incarcerated leaders, advocates, and healers. We are talking with Peejay Ai, Maria Lagarda, Kee Lam, and Chanthon Bun. They are staff at Asian Prisoner Support Committee who work with formerly incarcerated folks and their families. They provide support like jobs, healthcare, education, community. And yet, despite their work and their personal transformations and community transformations, they remain in immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ICE and potentially deported. Tonight, we hear their personal stories. We learn about movement building and talk about how you can get involved. And just a note for listeners that we will be talking about experiences with war. trauma, sexual assault, and violence. Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. Welcome APSC4 to Apex Express. I am so happy to have you here. I want to start with a question that I love to ask of everyone, which is from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. And the question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Let's start with Peejay.   Peejay Ai: [00:02:12] So I am Peejay. I am Cambodian of origin. My mom and dad are Cambodian. We have part Chinese somewhere in our genes. When I think about legacy, I think about my culture, my upbringings, you know, my, my parents cares with them. I Also have experiences in incarceration, and obviously through my journey in life, I have this legacy as well, where I've learned some stuff and I have met people through the prison system. When I think about my people, I think about the people I've come across with who helped me grow in life, you know, and the foundation that my parents taught me when I was a kid. That's kind of my legacy. I think about the people I've come in contact with, my community, my parents, what they teach me about my ancestor. And now that I'm working heavily with the CERI community, Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants here in Oakland, you know, I'm co facilitate the Men's Elders group. So, with them, they teach me a lot about culture, a lot about my roots and where I came from. And so I'm relearning who I am as a person and redefining myself. And also reminded that, you know, beyond my experience, there's a foundation of Cambodian cultural, right. and heritage, you know, behind me. So that's kind of what I think about when I think about my people and I think about my legacy.   Miko Lee: [00:03:29] Thank you so much, Peejay. Bun, what about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Chanthon Bun: [00:03:36] I'm Cambodian. My people are Khmer people. The legacy that I have is resilient. My family have lived through, through a lot of systems even my grandparents being Khmer from colonization to the genocide to, coming to America. My family have endured a lot. so the resilient in us still live and that's the legacy I carry.    Miko Lee: [00:03:58] Thank you so much. Bun, I'm going to ask you about resilience later, because that is a key thing I get from y'all. Maria, what about you? Tell me about your people and what legacy you carry with you.   Maria Legarde: [00:04:09] Who are my people? I'm a Filipina immigrant, so my people are the survivors. You know, those that dealt with a lot of that, that had a lot of challenges growing up, right? And didn't have a voice. So those are my people. My faith community are my people, my elders, my Lolas, and my mylas, my mentors, those that shaped me and who I'm becoming today. Those are my people. The legacy that I feel that what I'm leaving an imprint here on earth is being the voice for those that cannot express themselves. For those that do not have a voice right now and are scared. And I want to be that voice to let them know that they're not alone.   Miko Lee: [00:04:54] Ke Lam, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Ke Lam: [00:04:58] My people are my incarcerated. Those are incarcerated. Those that got deported, and those that are living in fear are my people. Because I understand the struggle, I understand the fear, I understand the trauma. The legacy I carry with me is all the advocates before me that have done this work that, you know, that put their life on the line. As well as my grandfather who came to this country, you know, struggling to raise a whole family, whole generation. I think the other part of my legacy is. breaking the, the, the cultural cycle. Like my grandfather never hugged my dad, but I hugged my dad, gave my dad that hug. And so, and, and that progression is going towards my, my siblings, as well as even to other men that was incarcerated. That never got a hug from their father.    Miko Lee: [00:05:50] Thank you all for sharing your stories of who you are and your sense of resilience and giving voice and incorporating your culture. I know that each of you have had incredibly deep and profound experiences and thank you so much to the HHREC podcast, which is allowing us to air interviews that you did already sharing your stories. I have heard your stories also and I'm just wondering what is that like for you to continue to tell your stories again and again? How do you sustain reliving that type of trauma by sharing your stories?   Chanthon Bun: [00:06:25] You know telling our stories is really traumatic. But we've learned how to heal from a lot of our traumas without healing from your trauma, it's hard to tell that story. And when you tell that story, it comes alive again. With that, I believe it's so important for our elders and our youth, especially like Peejay, myself and Maria. We are the 1.5 generation. I truly believe that we bridge these generation, you know, where we could relate to our younger folks. And then our elders, we still hold the tradition that they're used to. Telling our stories is bridging the experience, you know, bridging the past and the future with the present of our stories. For me, a lot of it is because when I grew up, I didn't have stories like this. I had to live it and made mistakes as I went. I didn't have somebody telling a story of how an immigrant could learn this culture. I did it all with mistakes that I've made and lessons that I've learned. And then passing it down. I mean, there's a lot of folks that are in my shoe. There's a lot of folks living the life that I live that still don't understand and still can't heal. And, you know, I'm just hoping that the shared experience could start a conversation of healing.   Peejay Ai: [00:07:44] Yeah, I think for me, sharing my story over and over again it is healing in some instances, and sometimes, you know, living, reliving trauma is very difficult. And I'm learning to like, do my work, you know, as an advocacy with APSE, and through my own experience through restorative justice practices that, sharing my story, it could be empowering for other people to share, right. I think I grew up. In this API community or silence, you know, and it's a shame to talk about, your experience, right, airing out your laundry, pretty much, you know, your personal experience could be very shameful but what that does, and I'm learning, like, you know, like, when you have trauma. and you don't talk about it, you know, you become silent. It's affects you, you know what I mean? It affects your life. It's affects your health. It affects your community and your family. So now as I'm reframing the way I look at my story is that I'm using as a tool and to share, so that other people could, could learn and know, but also feel empowered to share their story. You know, I think storytelling could be a very powerful thing for a community, right? Not just Bun have said, like provide healing, right. But. Also, I think like it provide teaching, you know, like when I hear my elder share their story, it teaches me  about my history, my culture, what they've been through, but also it also like reaffirmed that, I'm on the right track, you know, that healing could happen by watching, you know, my elder shed tears from their story by hearing their emotion and feeling their emotion and seeing it with my own eyes, you know? I think like storytelling is a very powerful tool for us and I think more people should tell their story because they have something to offer, you know, and I think we should always tell our stories. So, what's once was like a very difficult thing to do now become something that I know is very purposeful and empowering.   Miko Lee: [00:09:19] Thanks Peejay Maria. What about for you? How is it for you telling your story again and again?    Maria Legarde: [00:09:24] Sharing my story like I always get emotional. So, it's very hard for me, because I relive it, but I use it as a tool now, as it's a powerful tool, you know, going through it, sharing it, like it just happened yesterday. Because when I share my story, especially with the young women, it makes it real for them. To know that I've been there, like, I've been there too, I know it, I know what she's feeling. And, sharing it, what did I do, how did I do it. Painting the picture for them, not to traumatize them, but to show them how I got from not being able to speak about it. To talking about it to healing and then taking control over my life, and then becoming empowered by the struggles that I gone through all those years. It just didn't take me one year, took me 15, 20 years, even today, you know, so to share that I know that when I plant that seed, it's not because to traumatize them or to make them relive it. There's that collective power in it, the collective healing in it, that that's what got me to share my story in the first place. When I heard all the other women share it, I'm not alone. For the first time in my life when I heard it, I didn't feel alone. Because I knew somebody believed me. When the people that were supposed to believe me didn't believe me, they believed me. You know, so I, that's the gift that telling that story gives another, individual. That life, it's, pass it forward, you know, that's why I was so happy with the Me Too movement because it's a collective power within us. So like with Bun and with Peejay, the intergenerational healing from our, you know, the trauma within our family. Because of that, I know I can share it with my family and we start talking about it because they've seen me do it. Like how is that that young girl was able to talk to you like that? I was like, because she knew that I believed her. The moment she told me, she knew I believed her. it opens the door for healing in my family, in my community. So that's why I, today, I use that as a tool to bring people together, collective healing.    Miko Lee: [00:11:42] Storytelling as collective healing and being able to, be heard and open the door for other people to share their stories as well. Thank you so much for sharing about that. Kee Lam, I'm wondering if you could talk about the resilience it takes to tell your story again and again, what is that like for you   Ke Lam: [00:12:02] Each time I tell my story is almost like an awakening. It, is reliving a lot of that trauma, but it's also like reminding me of what I've been through and, and I'm still here. it's also for me is, Self love, being able to share it because I'm hoping that I can be an encourager to those who don't know how to share a story or who are afraid to share a story. And so when I, the reason I put myself out there all the time is like, who better to, Encourage somebody and somebody that's been through it all as well. when I help, you know, restore your justice circles, people told me the way through is through the fire. and it's not easy to share a story sometimes because it's so traumatic. But one thing that encouraged me all the time is when I see other people. And I see them when they share the story that there's like a burden that was taken off shoulders. I see the difference when somebody able to feel like they could release some of that harm that was put on them and find healing and then find, strength in a community that support them through their struggle. And so that's why I keep sharing my story because I believe that. it takes all of us to bring voice to the hurt and pain that we, we had throughout so much generations.    Miko Lee: [00:13:14] Thank you for sharing angela Davis talks about how prisons are meant to break human beings. I'm wondering how each of you. what tool you drawed on to stay strong while you are incarcerated and how different that is, like, what mental health support do you do now? Do you have a daily practice to stay resilient now? And did you have something different when you were locked up?   Chanthon Bun: [00:13:38] Yeah, that is so true. Prison is meant to break you. And there's many times while I was incarcerated for my 23 years that, I was fighting that, that don't break me. You know, I still had the fight in me. You're not going to break me. even during my long years in solitary, I just, there was something in me, like I say, there's some resilience in me that, innately told me, like, do not let them break you, you know, mentally, physically. but yeah, during my, the hardest time where I felt like, you know what, this, this is getting too hard for me, being isolated, not having human contact. And, you know, the only thing on my skin is concrete and, and metal. I often look back to. My grandparents, I often look back to their teachings, their lessons that they've shown me through the years when I was young. and sometime, I use my trauma, you know, I, grew up in the refugee camp. It was hard. I was starving there. and it's weird how like you use a bigger trauma. To cope with this trauma, you know, it's like, man, I, when I, when I was a kid, I had nothing to eat. So I lick salt, you know, . They gave me three meals a day. I think I'm doing better than I used to be. So it's like, it's it was kind of crazy way to, think about it. And, and I think because I had so much trauma as a child. It really helped me to be resilient when I was incarcerated. And like, it really helped me to empower myself. And then, and then it really helped me to think about what is resilient? at first I didn't even know what it meant. People tell me, I was like, yeah, whatever. It was just, Something I do, like when folks like, damn, you're so resilient, like, I've been like this all my life. I don't know. I don't know what the gauge of resilience you're giving me. I've always been a person like, I'll figure this out, you know, as long as I survive, I'll figure it out. So, if you let them, it will break you. You look deep inside you, and you look at your life, and just like me, a crazy way was, I've been through worse and I could do this too.    Miko Lee: [00:15:32] Before you get to you stay resilient now, Maria, I see you smiling a lot. I wonder if you want to respond to that. About prison breaking, meant to break human beings.   Maria Legarde: [00:15:43] I, I, because I agree with what Bun was saying, you know, it's like trauma on top of trauma on top of trauma. Which one's worse? There's really, like, is, this trauma is really worse than this trauma? Because I both came out of it, you know, so give me more. Is there anything more that you can give me, right? So it becomes a defensive mechanism for us. And Bun said, I didn't know what resilient means. too, when I was in prison, what does resilient mean? I said, I know English is my second language, but, , you know, I don't know what that meant for a human being to be resilient and what it embodies. So that's why I agreed. And I smile because, yep, we didn't know we were resilient because we've been fighting to survive. We've been fighting to just to live another day.   Miko Lee: [00:16:28] Peejay, what about you? How did you stay strong when you were locked up?    Peejay Ai: [00:16:32] There's many factors, right. But I think like one factor I share with Bun, like I grew up on the street. It was hard, you know, I grew up poor. I grew up on welfare. I grew up, you know, as a refugees, you know, coming to America, doesn't speak the language, was bullied, you know, was victim of school shooting to the point. Right. And like, there's. Certain things in my life that really, like, shaped me and, like, pushed me really hard. And so I knew I was different. I knew I was, like, you know, like, the deck is stacked against me. And so I think, like, experiencing it as a young person, I become numb to it. And so when I hit prison, and I went, you know, I went to Juvenile Hall, right? I went to Juvenile Hall. I went to the CYA. I went to prison. So as young person going through the prison system, I started to the lower level first and I can build resilience, you know, like teaching myself how to read, like learning, to accept hardship, right. Not being able to be isolated, not to be like in a cell locked up for many, you know, for many days, sometime many years or two, right. I think the one thing that really shaped my life the most is when I was in Solano State Prison. And I was just like, this was like new. I turned 18, they sent me from CYA. To Solano, and one night my mom came to visit me and, she was just so dumbfounded by like, what she hear about prison. And then she asked me, how am I doing with everything? And then I explained to her, like what the environment is like, and I didn't candy coat it for her, but I just explained it to her and she couldn't understand why people would continue to harm each other in prison. We're all in the same boat, you know, like we're all in the same boat, we're locked up away from our family, like, why are we not together helping each other out? Right? And then there's one thing she said was I stuck with me today. She said life is hard, you know what I mean? Like, and it could be harder, you know what you make of it, right? Like, you've got the choice to make it easier if you want to, like, Your circumstance were always going to be the same, right? But you have a choice to make it worse. And I'm sitting there like, man, that's just makes so much sense to me. You know, like, why are we making much harder on ourself? Right. so then I started looking at life much differently. I think her statement for me was at the moment I had, it's like, you know, things are hard, right, but I can always make it harder for myself and things could always be harder too, right? So why not enjoy You know, things that is around me and try to make a difference in my own self. Right.    So from that concept, I started developing resiliency. You know, I started, I looked at it, I started reframing life differently. Right. I started thinking about like, well, I don't have nothing to eat, you know, like doing lockdowns, I think about, yeah, well, people starving all over the world too, you know, like, you know, So it just kind of gave me strength, you know, as I learned to reframe my environment over and over again. And then I started to develop, like, start to like find opportunity to create better opportunity for myself. I went and got a job, you know, I worked in a kitchen and I fed myself and I, went to school and I got a, education and I started getting in the program. And so, you know, I started really thinking about like, How do I make my life better? You know, I call it my life, despite what I, you know, very little I have, I make the best of it. Right. So I think like that kind of echo out in my whole life until I got to the ICE detention center, you know, I'm reminded like, Oh, it's pretty bad down here. at that point, I'm like, I'm used to this already, you know, I'm used to reframing things to become positive, right? No matter how negative it is, you know, I try to find the best of it. Right. Conditioning through like hardship, hard time when I was a kid, all the way to my adulthood, even now, you know, like things get hard, with this new immigration policy and stuff, there's a lot of fear. I mean, I'm constantly reminded that I'm not alone, you know, I've built community throughout my life, I'm creating opportunity, for healing. And so I should focus on what I have that is positive versus what I don't have that is negative, you know, let's cherish the moment, you know, cherish my friendship, you know, cherish my opportunity, right. And my freedom and soul. So that grounds me, that reminded me that, can get better and it will get better. I just got to keep that faith alive and just keep hope alive and just keep moving, you know. When I go through prison and I survive all the hardship, it's grounded myself on knowing that, you know, like, people in the world have it so much worse, you know, and sometimes we have a choice to make things better for ourselves, but we have to choose to make it better, right? You can't focus on the bad things. Problem solving, you know, don't focus on a problem, like, let's focus on a solution. What can you do different right now to make it better?    Miko Lee: [00:20:11] Thanks Peejay key. I'm wondering how you were able to stay strong when you were incarcerated.   Ke Lam: [00:20:17] Wow. , at first when I first started, on my. Committed offense. I went through the whole system. I went to all one time. I went to juvenile hall, youth authority, county jail, prison and immigration all on one case. It took a while. living straight strictly on survival mode. It's almost no different than when I was growing up. My family moved around constantly and it was just either you survive or you become a victim. And I started off my early life being a victim and then I learned, how to normalize violence, growing up in a predominantly African American community. And that actually, sadly prepared me for my committed offense, be doing time inside. It wasn't easy. one thing I learned was not to be, you know, to be a tough guy. just go there, mind your business, do your time, be very observant. That's one thing that did help me a lot in life is being observant of what's going on around me, being conscious of what's going on around me. And the other thing is. Try not to take too much stuff personal, but it wasn't until I started going through self help classes that I became more in tune with learning about empathy, compassion, forgiveness, not just forgiving others and receiving forgiveness from others, but also learning how to forgive myself for a lot of the stuff that I allow myself to go through and the things that I've done to others. I think the other part of me was becoming really spiritually grounded was another big part of me was, I started out practicing Buddhism. My first, you know, my first stay for, like, 10 years of incarceration. then I converted to Christianity. no denomination because I don't believe in being a religious person. I believe in being spiritual. So a lot of people are like, what's your religion? I say, I don't have one, but I do believe in a higher power. I believe that, you know, we are spiritual being experiencing a human experience. so it's a mixture of what I learned in Buddhism and Christianity is learn to have compassion for everything around me, including myself, and part of that compassion the biggest part that actually helped me to prison was. one thing that I never got from my father and he never got from his father was a hug. So I start hugging guys, giving people hugs, guys, on a yard, you know, so nationality did not matter to me. you know, I didn't grow up. biased against a lot of different people. I learned to embrace a lot of different cultures. and then one thing by going through the self help classes, learning to connect with people on a human level, besides what t they believe in or what they look like. And so once I was able to do that, I started experiencing a lot of healing for myself and for them.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:22:50] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org.   Miko Lee: [00:23:10] I'm wondering what each of you do, what is your personal, like mental health support that you do now to be able to stay, stay resilient, stay in there. Maybe you all have touched or feel like you've answered this already, or is there anything that you're doing differently now in your daily practice?   Maria Legarde: [00:23:26] Do want to share something real quick, Miko, going back the quote, right? That prison is meant to break us. I was already broken when I went to prison. There's nothing more that they can break me. That's why I said it, like, give it to me more. What else can you give me? Because I'm already broken. You took everything from me. You know, everything was taken from me. What more can you do to break me? But then, you know, with my journey, faith as being my foundation, right, I believe that once, God gives you that second chance, right, for me. What do I want to make? With this chance, who do I want to be? So like a phoenix, you know, rise from the ashes, right? And so I utilized that and it didn't take just one year, right? Took me in that journey. That throughout that 14 years to be who I am today. So I took that broken pieces of me and put it in a puzzle and made it into this beautiful product today, right? So my mental health, my wellbeing, emotionally, mentally, I always go back to my faith. Because it's what saved me from when I got to prison. So when everything else is in chaos, I go back into that place. Go to my place within me that I can just be at peace. And meditate, listen to my music, be one in nature, so that's my go to. And it helps when I know I have people, like my beautiful family here. it helps when I know that I don't have to tell them. They can hear it from my voice and say, it's gonna be okay, Maria. So that's the kind of care. Without even having to say it, they just know. And that's more effective than anything else.    Miko Lee: [00:25:16] Thanks, Maria. Peejay, you were going to add?    Peejay Ai: [00:25:19] Yeah, so one of the things that I adopted for myself when I was in prison is that I was heavily involved with the Native American spiritual circle, you know, because of my kind of Cambodian Background before Buddhism came through, we were indigenous, right? And so through my indigenous side of sharing with the Native American cultural there, they found a lot of similarity to us people, right? And so I was fortunate to be invited to join the spiritual circle, did ceremony with them. And so a lot of the spiritual practices that I have done with them, like, for example, like this sweat lodge ceremony, which are often used for healing or prayers. stay connected with the earth, stay connected with your creators, stay connected with the higher power and also like have an opportunity to pray for your family and do some healing and cleansing for yourself. So I still practice that today and sometime when I feel out of balance, when I feel like, you know, a lot's going on and things are heavy and just stuff out of control and I need to find that balance again. You know, I go to ceremony, I go to ceremony here, here when I'm in the lodge. you know, it's pitch black, the sweat leader brings in the stone that just represent grandfather, and your elders and when he poured a water on top of the stone and it's pitch black, the steam comes out, you know, reminding me of like grandfather's breath, right. The creator's breath. And, you know, like that. And like being a sauna, people think about it being a sauna, like it washes away a lot of like toxins out of my body. It just, it washes away a lot of the hardship I've experienced as I leave it into the fire, you know, leave it into the steam and allow myself some time to like disconnect from the world around me and just reconnect with myself, you know, what am I experiencing at that moment, my breath, my pores opening, my heartbeat, you know, and, sometime, you know, people who are in the sweat lodge sing traditional songs and the sound of the drum. , And it wakes up my spirit, and it reminds me of who I am, where I came from, where I'm going. Yeah, and when I come out of the sweat lodge, I always feel like renewed, I feel energetic. I feel like I've been reborn again, right? And that helped me stay grounded on a very physical, spiritual, and emotional level. I think the other piece is that as I'm going through life, I'm celebrating it by, like, with family members, with a long walk with my family. Well, my, my dog, also help, just kind of like putting things in perspective, right. I found moments to do like me time, sometime yoga, even, you know, I, you know, the other day I did silver sneaker, because some of my elders like to do silver sneaker. . And that was like, very, powerful moment, right. And I feel like I guess it's like what I'm learning is that, Those moments help me connect with myself. And sometimes that's the thing that I need to do most when things are hard. sometimes working and responding to crisis disconnect me from myself and then when I start to refocus on myself, I realize where I need to be. then I feel empowered take the next step. That's what keeps me going. Be aware of connecting with myself more often, right? You know, I because sometimes it's easy to forget that I matters and forget myself.    Miko Lee: [00:27:59] Thank you for sharing. It's really easy to get disconnect, disconnected in our world right now. So many things are hitting at us constantly. Ke. What about you? What are ways that you stay resilient?   Ke Lam: [00:28:10] I think for one is definitely take a lot of deep breath is grounding myself is definitely one thing. It's so easy to get caught up in all the chaos around us, you know, hearing all the raids and pick up and who works, who works with ice. It is, it's really, it's depressing and it causes a lot of anxiety. One of the things I do besides breathing is I have wind therapy, wind therapy. I just learned what wind therapy is actually just riding my motorcycle, just going out there and just, you know, pick a location, just go, right? no plan. Just, just go. And most of the time I just go by myself. so I ride my ride. I zone out, play my music and I go, other things. I really, I actually been doing a lot lately is sitting with my dog and Just sitting there in peace and just quiet, just hanging out with my dog. Cause I lost my other one in October. And so the one I have now, I just meet her, just chill at the, on the sofa. I mean, on the ground, sofa on the floor, and sometimes we just go for long walks and just, don't have to talk. you know, just being present and grounded with earth and with the environment around me. and then other thing is, you Just stay connected with family and community. you know, being able to slowly share like what's going on while I'm feeling inside and outside. It's been helpful.   Miko Lee: [00:29:22] Thank you. I think we all need as many resources as we can to find ways to stay connected to ourselves and our community right now. , I'm wondering both. Peejay and Ke, , touched on the fact that you have been involved in the like bad education to incarceration as a youth into adult incarceration and now potential deportation. Can you all give a breakdown about what crimmigration is and why it is important for people to know about it?   Chanthon Bun: [00:29:50] Crimmigration is, my simplest definition of crimmigration is double punishment. crimmigration is for folks that come here legally with papers, but then because of the IIRA IRA law of 1996 that states that any crime of moral sopropo you could be deported after you serve your time so you have to serve your whole sentence pay back to society what they say you got to pay back to society serve your sentence and after that deal with deportation consequences and that's another question that we're going through today Right with this new administration is who deserve to stay in who doesn't and right now it's so Convoluted where where you know, every day we're getting new explanation who stays who goes who stays who goes and everybody talk about the law, it's the law this, it's the law that, the law says this, and they interpret the way they want to interpret it. But nobody that's in power is talking about the family, nobody's talking about the person, nobody's looking into the person like, you know, a country of second chances, nobody talks about that, like yeah, there are criminals. send them out But we have folks that have served long term, like all four of us and we healed ourselves. we went to a parole board, the state of California, the governor approved that. We are no longer a threat to our community, our society, and also an asset to our community and society, right? But after that, immigration comes in like, we don't even care. We just know you were arrested for this and this. And it's time for you to go. And for a lot of our Southeast Asian families, that's a hard thing to wait for your family member for 20, 30 years, and then get deported for life. And I only say that is because We suffer a lot of displacement. We suffer a lot of family separation. a lot of us are the ones that were saved during the genocide, during the war, the ones that survived. and then, this country doesn't look at our history. Right. and our history is sold like you are blessed to have a second chance to come to this country and make something of yourself. Right. And that's a totally blank statement. But then reality was, we came here with nothing. We came here with a lot of trauma, and we were just placed here with no explanation, no nothing. struggling to survive, struggling to understand this country. a lot of us like myself, fall into the criminal system. And we had, paid for what we've done. we've served our time and now to turn around our parents that are elderly now saying goodbye to them again. And, oh, that's a misstatement saying goodbye. They don't even let us say goodbye. You know, it's not like, oh yeah, say goodbye to, no, you got to go. And the way it's done is so cruelly done that, nobody ever think of the human. Nobody ever thinks of the heartbreaks, nothing. And right now, all I hear is the law says so. So we are a country of law, right? But we are human too.   Miko Lee: [00:32:56] Thanks for that rundown on criminalization. Peejay, do you want to add.   Peejay Ai: [00:32:59] Yeah, I think about, like, when I hear crimmigration, I think of, like, my own experience, you know, like, going through the pipeline list. I'm learning, like, there's a pipeline. You know, between the criminal justice system to the immigration system in the criminal justice system, a legal system, you know, like for me, when I came to United States, we settled in a very poverish, violent, crazy community. Right. there was not a lot of resources, you know, and then there's like a lot of gangs, a lot of like bias, racism was happening at the time. This is the time, like the war on drugs, tough on crime policy, it was out, and the prison boom. Right. Right. And so for me, I think like the lack of education, the lack of support was already like a prelude to my incarceration. Like there was a pipeline or established that one, one of these days, I'm going to be in prison because of all those X, Y, Z reason. And I'm not the only one. I think like that's pipeline created, you know, hardship for a lot of people, and then, for many Southeast Asian community end up in prison because of like, Dealing with trauma, you know, like we didn't have the resources to deal with a trauma, you know, it comes out in crimes comes out in gangs, it comes out and, you know, like adapting to environment by, being part of all this negative stuff. Right. And, you know, in a prison system. And, you know, unfortunately, a lot of us in being raised in prison, you know, learning about the prison system, through our lived experience, I have to suffer through it. Right.    And I think like what Bun said, you know, like, for Southeast Asian community. You know, being in prison system is just the first step, like surviving your environment, your resettlement is one thing, right? And then end up in a prison system is another step, right? And then the other step is that you end up in an ICE dentention center, simply not because of like what you did, it is who you are, like you were born with, you were born Asian or you were born an Islander, you were born, you know, API, right? And you have the immigration hole on you. And so they try to punish you again because of that very reason, you know, like if I was an American citizen. And I served my time, changed my life. I will be home. Right. I can give back to my community. I reconnect with my family. But for, you know, for API community, that's not always the case. You know, like where are you pre preset that, you know, like after prison, you're going to go into the immigration system and that's where you're going to take your next step, your journey. Right. And then after you, if you were to survive the immigration system, we will deport you, you know, and we'll separate you from your family again. And often like stuff that makes sense, like Cambodian, for example, and this is true for Laos, Vietnamese, Hmong, and a lot of other Southeast Asian communities, right? Like we were refugees, you know, we came to this country, you know, as kids. So we're not even born in the country that we left, you know, like I, I was never born in Cambodia. My mom left Cambodia during a genocide and I was born in Thai. So then I was in, they were trying to deport me to Cambodia to a country I'd never been to. I wasn't even born there, you know, so it didn't make no sense, right? But I feel like this, when I think about like crimmigration it's a pipeline, you know, it's a pipeline that it's very biased, it treats us very differently. if you're API, then you're out of luck, if you're API, you will be out of luck, you know, like you'd be treated differently. Right. and I, and I don't think that's a right system because it's the exact opposite of what the American society is supposed to stand for. Right. You know, especially like California, and you're like, we're a very liberal community, right? Like, we're a state that just, support, ideally, immigrants and all ethnic background. But then we treat people so differently, And not because of what I did, just simply because who I am.   Miko Lee: [00:35:54] Ke can you talk about the APSC4? What your campaign is about.   Ke Lam: [00:35:58] APSC4 is a campaign to save half of the staff from deportation back to a country that they have no ties to, , for me is Vietnam for Peejay and Bun it's Cambodia and Maria to the Philippines. It's basically trying to say, you know, we're not the same, like people that served time and got released are considered, I consider is redeemed, we changed our lives, we made restoration for the harms that we've done, and we're giving back to the community, and we're showing that people with a second chance can make society greater. And by deporting APSC4, deporting people like us, you're taking valuable resources from the community. People that understand the struggle and, the hardship that's going on in our community. So we're bringing voice to the voiceless. We're bringing, light to those that are still in the dark. And the other thing, the biggest part of APSC4 is we're hopeful for a lot of folks that are, not just impacted people, but for families. If APSC4 is able to get a part in, we're showing the community that when we fight, we win. That together, we can not just save APSC4, but we can actually save our community. I think that's one of the biggest mission of why we urge Gavin Newsom to pardon APSC4 is that way that we can show that not only are people that committed crime, not their crime, because so easy to label somebody that committed crime. You know, as that thing, right? , but we're not, I think that's the biggest part for me for APSC4 and I'd like to hear what Maria had to say on   Maria Legarde: [00:37:24] So much going through my head. APSC4 you know, we make up half of the staff for APSC, right? We represent the community that APSC serves. We're directly impacted. We've been through immigration. We, you know, with our family reunification. APSC4 is the bridge between the people that are inside fighting for their freedom, what freedom looks like out here, how, when they're out here, how they can bridge that gap in their community, how they can bridge that gap with their family, how can they start over by, you know, having a solid reintegration into a community that's gonna be supportive of their success. Because they were given second chances, who they were when they were 20 years ago are different people today. And I think, you know, with Nia, with Danny, right, they received pardons from Governor Newsom, you know, and it was during that time, too, when all the immigrants were at risk. And so for us, APSC4, It would really be, a loss in the community because we bridged that gap, Miko. Like, when I first came home, Ke was my bridge. I was in LA, right? People didn't know it, what to do for folks. immigrants coming home on parole. But we bridged it. Now LA knows what to do. LA knows where to start because Ke bridged that gap between local DMV, and head, Sacramento DMV. You know, that's what community work and that's what APSC4 is. We were the bridge, literally the bridge from our folks inside, to our community out here, to our elected officials that you invested in programs to rehabilitate us, to spend money on those rehabilitation, those fundings, and now that we're here, you're allowing you know, allowing an administration, like for your investment to just, what, go down the drain, because really that's what it is. Only because we weren't born here, only because of what we were dealt with at the time when we were facing challenges we didn't know how to, but now we have all the tools and we've proven that we've held our community, because our community has spoken for us. You know, ask Governor Newsom to please pardon the community members that are coming home that are all at risk of deportation and it's not just APSC4. very much. But we are being the voice for those that don't know how to advocate for themselves. We're showing them, look, we're putting ourselves out here. Because we know the value that we hold today. And our community believes in us. And with their support, hopefully, Newsome hears that, you know, changes his mind, I don't know. Do within his executive authority to save those people that are working in his vulnerable communities, in his marginalized communities, that are thriving, helping those communities thrive. And we are part of that. And we're hoping that he does it in a manner where, because it's imminent, we don't know when we get to talk to our community members again, to you, to have this discussion again, and so that's what APSC4 campaign is about.   Miko Lee: [00:40:50] And folks can find out more about the APSC campaign on their website, Asian Prisoner Support Committee, and we'll also post it on the Apex Express website. And folks can meet all of these amazing guests in person at an event that's happening February 28th from 6 to 8PM at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown, where we will be hosting the reading from the book arriving. Can one of you talk about and and the other exciting thing about that is at that event, there's actually a zine. That's based on Maria's life story called when we were girls, that they'll be able to meet Maria and actually walk away with the zine. That's for people to take people can make a donation to actually receive the book. Can one of you talk about the book and what that experience was like working on the book and about what this event is coming up at the end of February.    Chanthon Bun: [00:41:40] Arriving is our second anthology. the first anthology was called The Others. So, Arriving is a collaboration of incarcerated writers. I'm an artist in that book also. it was, it's just stories. of folks that are incarcerated, API folks that are incarcerated, expressing, poems, expressing their trauma, expressing their live experience, expressing what it felt like to be API at a certain moment. in time with, immigration, with, coming to, uh, this country, acculturation, you know, we have, many different writers that, that collaborated with us. when I read certain, certain, writers, And they're telling my story. They're telling all our stories. So, if you guys can, check out, check out the second anthology, Arrival.   Miko Lee: [00:42:30] So we are recording this on the last day of January, 2025. And already in just a couple of weeks, our political system is in tumult based on Trump 2.0 policy. Can you talk a little bit about how, and I know the policy is changing daily. I mean, every day it's this onslaught, but from what you know right now, how has this impacted your community?   Chanthon Bun: [00:42:54] The community is in fear. All day today I was driving around going to meetings, but getting phone calls right in the middle. What's happening? What's going on? I heard and there's a lot of rumors. There's a lot of fear out there and folks are catching up to rumors and, you know, our folks like, hey, they're deporting us. Should I run? Should I stay? Should I check in? Should I check in with my family? Should I move out for a while? And it's just a lot of fear. The sad thing is they're calling me and they're probably calling everybody from APSC. because we have a wide connection with our former incarcerated folks and folks that are under, final removal order. The hard thing is, Like what you said, I tell him the same thing. Like I know it's fear. We have a lot of fear in our community. I know we're all worried. for the kids, for the family. And I can't give you no answers because it's changing every day. I wake up, I look at the news is something else new. There's something there. There's something there. And every day since the inauguration, it's just. hits our community and living with fear is such a mental breakdown. I had one guy, call me a friend of mine. He says, I do a door dash and I see them everywhere. What do I do? Like, I see them everywhere I'm living at. I see them in the corners. I see them eating in the restaurant. And, you know, I have to go pick up food there to drop off. and you know, the only thing I could really say, and it's not even something that, could calm them. It was like, be careful, you know, be aware. I mean, it's hard. I know it's hard, a heart advice but I myself is living in that same fear. being aware, but still trying to uplift our community in times like this. I mean, this is not going to be the first or last time that our community are in fear. It's happened before and we'll get through it. You know, with our community strength, we'll get through it. And the hard thing is, some of us won't get through it. Some of us will be deported. But somehow, as a community, we have to stand strong together. We have to just brace this. And, hopefully, it'll end soon.    Ke Lam: [00:44:57] Yeah, my biggest concern with what's going on right now is when community, fight each other like good immigrant versus bad immigrants. you know, how to stay away from that narrative, right? how not to pit each other against each other. So I think that's one of the things we seen on the first administration. and now with the second administration, especially when he's talking about going a little harder on it. I worry that, you know, family will. Start separating within each other. And, you know, with the, political views, certain family members who support Trump, who doesn't support Trump other part of the population I'm afraid of is those that are remaining silence. Those are that are hiding in the shadows. Right. Because they think by being invisible, they're that, that they'd be safe when in reality they're not. And so like, that's what caused, that's what's going on with this new mission. It causes people to hide and by hiding, by being siloed, that they become more vulnerable. And then I asked that community don't become like that. It's like the shame culture in our, you know, in our generation, the Southeast Asian, where we don't talk about nothing. Right. And that's actually not really productive for healing at all. That's actually the perpetuation of trauma. And so like we need to talk about crimmigration, criminal justice, we need to talk about social reform. Even something as simple as like, did you vote. That are who are able to vote like you need to vote. And don't complain about what's going on if you didn't vote. And so that's a hard conversation with our families, that I have with my family. You know, when they complain, I say, did you vote? No? Well, you got nothing to complain about. Right? But the other thing is, I think the other word that popped in my mind is proximity. How do we get our, people. To come close to the problem and to talk about it. We're all close to the problem, but we don't talk about it. And so like, you know, hopefully people like formerly incarcerated people, like APSC4, we're making that difference. We're bringing voice to our community that don't want to talk about it. Even our community that fight against us and tell us not to remain silent. Like we're like, no, like my family tell me, don't talk about it. Like, I'm like, I'm going to talk about it. You know, either you're with me or not, regardless, I'm gonna talk about it because we need to talk about we need to, we need to heal from all this trauma.   Miko Lee: [00:46:58] Thanks, Ke. Maria, what are your thoughts on how this new administration is impacting your population?    Maria Legarde: [00:47:05] Well, he succeeded in creating that climate of fear. That he wanted to, you know, that's the one thing that he did, but like yesterday I was with a group of community members up here in the Central Valley, and, we were talking about how, you know, when I was growing up, 1986, it's a revolution in the Philippines, when the church and the state, you know, it's always separated, right? But it was that one time. That the church and the state stood together to overthrow a dictator. And if it happened in history once, right, I, there's that hope. And so for my Filipino community that are in fear of what's going on in Trump 0, especially the ones in SoCal, know, knowing their rights and everything that we've talked about for the last week already, right? It's good to know those things, creating that space for them to talk is what my family is helping with others too. So here, my husband and my mom at work, like this is what needs to be done. You know, this is what needs to be done. There's a lot of our Hispanic over there, in the community, and this is what you need to tell them, translate it, so we know what we need to do, so it's our job to, disseminate the information and show them how it's done, so for our Filipino folks, It was actually, you know, my family, some of my family members that gave me a call. It's like, okay, so what do we do again? You know, I said, I'm going to send you some red cards in the mail if not printed. Like, well, I don't have a printer. So just doing my part to make sure that my family is well equipped, their family, their community, wherever they're at. It helps alleviate that fear. And I always tell them like, Yeah, sometimes it would creep in. And when it does happen to me, Bun knows, I go to Bun, I go to my mom, I go to my brother, I cry if I have to, because I just need to release it. And I tell them, just do it! If you need to yell, yell! But, you already succeeded. Then what? But like you said, you know, the laws are changing every day. And so, you earned it. Then fight for it. And when you fight for it, did things happen because you're in this fight and you don't give up and that's what resilient people are. Immigrants are resilient. We're the backbone of the economy. I mean, if they don't know that by now, I don't know what world they're living in or what planet they're living in, because we're showing them that we are the backbone of the economy. You know, and without the hardworking immigrants, would America be really that great? Because we add to that greatness.    Miko Lee: [00:49:26] Thanks, Maria. Peejay, what are your thoughts on Trump 2.0 and the impact on the community?   Peejay Ai: [00:49:31] I think it's terrorism, right? For me, I think, like, when I think about Trump 2.0, I mean, like, there's a lot of stuff on the news about, Trump using anti terrorism, sentiment, to try to scare people into passing all these bills and justifying, treating other people as terrorism, but I think, like, we live here, like, we are being terrorized right now, by the whole Trump 2. 0 process, by, like, separating people from their family, creating fear, attacking people at their home, like, all those are, like, Formal terrorism, you know, I think to me is like, how do you treat human being that way? You know, and, I can't believe that's the best option that you could think of. Of how to solve whatever immigration problem that they feel like they're having, but yeah, I think this is a way to like create separation between community, right? You're pitting people against each other. Like you said, you know, like when people live.   Miko Lee: [00:50:11] in a classic divide and conquer mode.   Peejay Ai: [00:50:14] divide and conquer. Yeah. And I don't think it's fair, you know, I don't think anyone have a right to treat human being that way, you know? create more trauma and justify it as the right thing to do. Cause I don't think, creating that kind of pain. I mean, it's human right. You know, but you're violating, human right. And even the constitution of being violated and that, and people think it's okay that is happening, you know, so if, if, and the constitution are created to safeguard people, right. Safeguard United States the citizen. Right. So if you can't even honor your own constitution, how do you know anyone here is safe? I think we're creating. A lot of damage, right? I think this administration is creating a lot of damage in this policy. And I think, I don't think we're going to recover from it. And people is going to wake up one day and realize that the people they care about is no longer there. And it's going to be too late to be sad because, you know, they're gone, right? and I think people should do something about it. You know, now we have a chance to come together as a community and fight back, you know, and keep each other safe and show the world like what community can do for each other, what it means to each other, right? And I'm, I'm sad, you know, I'm really sad. I have a lot of fear for myself, for my, brothers and sisters, APSE four, and I'm very sad for my community around me and the client that I serve, you know, I think it's tragic. And we're now, At this stage, you know, being in America, I mean, like, that's just insane to me. yeah, I think terrorism has a very crazy definition and I think, you know, if you unpack it, you can see it happening in this, with the way people are being treated right now, from this whole process.   Miko Lee: [00:51:28] Feel like we all need what Ke's saying, take a breath and, lean into the resilience we were talking about earlier. This is why I was asking you questions. You all are some of the strongest people I know, like how do we keep the strength? How do we continue on? I want to move us toward my last question for all of you, which is around a liberatory future and what does it look like? Dr. Bettina Love, who, as you all know, is an amazing teacher around abolitionism, talks about how abolitionist teaching is not just about tearing down and building up, but also about the joy necessary to be in solidarity with others. Knowing that your struggle for freedom is constant, but that there is beauty in the camaraderie of creating a just world. So my question for us to leave in a dreamy note, is what is your dream of a liberatory future? What does that look like for you?   Chanthon Bun: [00:52:22] I'm a father, grandfather. For me, a liberatory future is folks could just live with their family happy. Thank you. You know, we have the worries of, making money and all that, but beside all that, just having the breath to share with your, your family, you know, the feeling of true freedom, right? Like, I don't even know how that looks like or how it feels. Cause haven't got there yet, but there's moments when I spend with my kids and my grandkids. So I want that moment to be longer.   Miko Lee: [00:52:52] Thanks, Bun. Anybody else have their dream of a liberatory future?   Ke Lam: [00:52:57] For me, a future is where there is no us versus them. There is a place where community could come together, break bread, despite different languages. and then part of that is, where members of community that has been a silo for so long can actually come to, to ask for help. You know, there's no fear to, right now I have a friend who's so afraid to ask for help and in the shadow, because a part of it is also a liberatory future. It's like, Not carrying on the shame of the past, breaking a lot of those intergenerational trauma. All right, where it's, you know, it doesn't matter if you've been convicted of a crime, if you're a refugee, if you're darks complected, or you're like completed, there's like no biases in a laboratory future where we share in each other's wealth and happiness. your happiness is my happiness. And there's no need to like, I need to have what you have to be on the same status like it's like no social class, like, there is none. We're all equal. You know, we all have universal health care and, and education, and it's just, and universal childcare as well. We definitely need that because it's so expensive, but it just, it just, for me, it's a place where it's like a utopia, a liberatory future. It's like a dream. Right. And I think, A liberatory future is like one win at a time, but not just one small one, but big wins.   Miko Lee: [00:54:20] Thanks, Key. Peejay, what are your thoughts?   Peejay Ai: [00:54:23] I just want to not live in fear. you know I've Live in fear since the day I was born, and I continue to live in fear to today. And I feel that journey has not ended for me and my family. You know, fear from being murdered and fear from genocide, fear of incarceration, fear of family separation. You know, I haven't had, I have not had a stable life. You know, until today, I'm still living in limbo, right? I was born into it. And so for me, it's just not simple, you know, like I just want what any kid wants, you know, in a family, you know, to be loved, to feel safe, to be accepted. And to be with my family, that's really all I want, you know, just to be a normal kid, to be a normal person with a normal life without having to be afraid all the time.   Miko Lee: [00:55:01] Thanks, Peejay. Maria, what are your thoughts on what does a liberatory future look like?    Maria Legarde: [00:55:06] Think for me, like, everyone shared, you know, what the future looks like. one thing is that not have, not looking behind me or, you know, just walking, enjoying a walk out there without having to fear that is somebody going to come out of that corner. want a future where, you know, finally I'm at a place in my life where I'm able to make Decisions, good rational decisions I'm able to take care of myself, my family, my loved ones, my community, I'm able to give back more than I thought I could, you know, and I'm living that life where I can actually make a difference. You know, who would have thought little old me? Is going to be able to make a difference in people's lives. I just want to be able to continue that and love, you know, and share that love and joy and with everybody. And that's the kind of future like what he said, you know, the kind of future where everybody would have the help that they need. If they need someone, they can go to the next person without having to fear if they're going to get be judged or treated differently because of the color of their skin. Or because of the way they talk or because of the way they look, you know, I just want that kind of future where we can all be happy, and life is full of challenges, but I want that future that we, I know that we can all depend on each other and grow together. That's the kind of future that I want.    Miko Lee: [00:56:27] Thank you so much to the APSC4 Peejay, Maria, Bun, and Ke for sharing your stories, your fight, your leadership, your advocacy, and also what does a liberatory future look like, which is just living without fear, being able to be with our families, being able to celebrate and take joy in beloved community, and not to have to worry, but just breathe and be with each other. I really appreciate y'all and all the work that you're doing and encouraging our big community to come out and celebrate February 28th at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown. Thanks, y'all. Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.    The post APEX Express – 2.6.25 – Arriving: APSC4 Part I appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. In this vintage APEX episode, Host editor Swati Rayasam continues to highlight the podcast Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha- Church. They embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, Gabriel and Estella gave a quick introduction and talked about wayfinding in the context of their work. Tonight on the podcast they're talking about anti-blackness in the PI community with Courtney Savali Andrews and Jason Fennel. Just a quick note that both Courtney and Jason's audio quality isn't the best on this podcast. So it might get a little bumpy. Enjoy the show. Episode Transcripts – Anti-blackness in the PI Community with Courtney-Savali Andrews and Jason Finau Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening everyone. You're listening to APEX express Thursday nights at 7:00 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we're going to continue to highlight the podcast continental shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owemma Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, Gabriel and Estella gave a quick introduction and talked about wayfinding in the context of their work. Tonight on the podcast they're talking about anti-blackness in the PI community with Courtney Savali Andrews and Jason Fennel. Just a quick note that both Courtney and Jason's audio quality isn't the best on this podcast. So it might get a little bumpy. Enjoy the show.   Courtney-Savali Andrews & intro music: [00:01:32] These issues are fluid, these questions are fluid. So I mean, I had to go and try get a PHD just to expand conversation with my family .   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:01:51] How do we uproot anti-blackness in API spaces? On today's episode, we explore this critical question with two incredible guests. Courtney and Jason share their stories, experiences, and reflections on ways our API communities can be more affirming of black identity and black humanity.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:13] What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo'u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, and uso.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:02:23] What's good, family? This is Gabriel, kumusta? Pronouns he/him.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:29] I have the great pleasure tonight of introducing our guest today, Jason Finau and Courtney-Savali Andrews. Jason is a social worker with a focus on mental health and substance abuse based in San Francisco. Courtney is an assistant professor of musicology at Oberlin College in Ohio. But I also want to be very intentional about not centering professions above who we are and who we come from. So I'm going to go to Jason first. Jason, please share with us who you are, how you identify and who are your people.   Jason Finau: [00:02:58] Hi everyone. Estella, Gabriel, again, thank you so much for hosting us in this space. My name is Jason. I identify as black and Samoan. My father is a black American from Mississippi and my mother is from American Samoa, specifically in the village of Nua and Sektonga. As a military, brat kind of grew up back and forth between Hawaii and Southern California. So I have a very strong love for the ocean and where my peoples come from. So, very excited to be on your podcast.   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:03:27] [Speaking Samoan] Tālofa lava I am Courtney-Savali Andrews from Seattle, Washington. I identify as an African American Samoan. My father is from Seattle, born and raised in Seattle, from Opelika, Alabama. That's where his roots are, and my mother is from American Samoa from the villages of Nwoma Sitsona and Aminawe. And Jason and I are maternal cousins.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:03:59] I did not know that. [Laughs] Good to know. Actually, just for some context, Jason and Courtney, you were one of my blessings in 2020. I received an email message about a space called Black + Blue in the Pacific, and it was a flier for a Zoom gathering with other black Pacifica peoples and I jumped on the call, not knowing what to expect, but it was only one of two times I can remember in my entire life feeling truly seen as black Samoan, and not having to separate those two or shrink any part of myself or who I am. So Jason, can you please share what the space is about and how it came to be?   Jason Finau: [00:04:42] Sure. That warms my heart that that was your reaction to participating in that space. So this was kind of born out of all of the protests against racial injustices across the country, especially with George Floyd and the other countless, unfortunately, countless deaths of black men and women at the hands of police brutality. And EPIC, which is the Empowering Pacific Island Communities, a nonprofit organization out in Long Beach reached out to me to kind of talk about how we can address anti-blackness within the Pacific Island communities in speaking with Tavae Samuelu, who is the executive director of EPIC and Teresa Siagatonu who is an amazing creative poet, artist, everything. We got together, started talking about like, well what was the real purpose for this group? Why are they reaching out to me specifically in the work that I do? And I think that part of that came from the fact that I am a licensed clinical social worker and that I do have a background in mental health and working in trauma, generational trauma and looking at how we as human beings look to take care of ourselves in a community that we as black human beings look to take care of ourselves in a community that doesn't value who we are and what that looks like for those of us who belongs to two different communities, one being the black and then the other being the Pacific Island community. And then even, you know, bringing that down even further to the, within the Pacific Island community, being in the Polynesian community and then being specifically in the Samoan community.   So in talking with that, the first person I thought about when they asked me to facilitate a group where we can gather other individuals who identified as being black and Pacific Islander, the first person I thought about co-facilitating this group with was my cousin Courtney-Savali Andrews. Just given the fact that she has done so much in research and education and understanding about PI cultures, with the work that she's done here in the States, as well as out in the Pacific, out in New Zealand and Samoa, and I'll let her talk more about that, but this is another part of the reasons why I thought about her instantly, and also because she and I have had these conversations about what it means to be black and Samoan, and to identify as both, and to sometimes have to navigate being one over the other in spaces, and even in spaces where It's a white space and having to figure out like which one are we like code switching between. So in thinking about this group and in thinking about this space, you know, one of the larger conversations that came out of those who engage in this group, that we have every second Tuesday of the month is that representation of seeing other folks who are also black and Pacific Islander who aren't related to us. And so these are the conversations that Courtney and I have had. I've had the same conversations with other first cousins who also happened to be black and Samoan, but I've never actually have met like one hand I can count on how many times I've met another person who identified as black and Pacific Islander. And so being able to host this space and to focus it, to start off that focus on anti-blackness and to talk about how we're all working to deal with what it means to say Black Lives Matter when someone who visually presents as Samoan or someone who visually presents as Tongan or any other of the Pacific Islands. Like, what does it mean for them to say Black Lives Matter, when those of us who identify as both black and Pacific Islanders aren't really feeling how that message is as substantial as they may be trying to, to come across.   Being able to gather in a space where we see other folks who look like us, who shared experiences that were so similar to what we have shared and what we have gone but also very different. And looking at how, you know, some folks grew up identifying primarily with the Samoan culture, whereas other folks grew up primarily identifying with the black culture and not being able to reconcile either one. So seeing that spectrum of experiences was able to provide us with an opportunity to grow for each other, to support each other, and to learn from each other. I was very thankful and grateful for having, for EPIC being able to step in and seeing that as an organization that does focus on empowering Pacific Island communities that they understood that when we look at the micro communities within that larger macro level of a PI community, looking at that individual black and PI cohort and understanding that that experience is different than the general experience. And so they wanted to make sure that we're facilitating those conversations, that we're holding safe spaces for those conversations, and that we're encouraging those conversations. So I really do appreciate them so much for that, and not taking it upon themselves to tell us how we should be engaging in these conversations, how we should be feeling, and asking us what we should be doing to get PIs to understand the impact of anti-blackness, within the, in the PI community for us personally.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:09:29] And as you were talking, I was laughing at myself thinking, yeah, I can count on one hand too, aside from my brothers, the other black Samoans or Polys I know, and I had an experience in college as a freshman, Cal State Northridge, in my EOP cohort. I met another Leilani, Leilani is my middle name, I met another Leilani who happened to be half black, half Samoan, also from South LA. And we saw each other and ran to each other like we were long lost siblings or something [laughs] and we just knew, and it was the first time I had seen someone who looked like me that was not The Rock. [Jason laughs] Like, the only person to look to, that was yeah. I don't know, it wasn't enough to have, you know, The Rock as my only representation. I appreciate him, but definitely wasn't enough. And shout out to EPIC and Tavae, because I think I mentioned earlier, being in Black + Blue was, it was like the second time in my life. I can say that I felt seen and one of the first times I felt seen as Samoan was at 30. I happen to be in a workshop led by Tavae on organizing PI communities. That was the first time I met her, but I left her session like in tears because I felt a whole part of whatever was happening in the conversation, the festivities, I could be like my full self.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:11:00] And those spaces are so important for us, right? To have that community, to be able to connect. So Jason, I appreciate you sharing that origin story of Black + Blue. And my question for Courtney actually, to bring in some of your experience into the space. Why was it important to create or forge a space such as this one with Black + Blue?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:11:22] Well, I will say that I've had the privilege of a different experience having met several African American and African Pacific Islanders in Seattle through my experience in the US. And I mean, this goes all the way back to my childhood. I went to a predominantly, and this is going to sound pretty interesting, but in the 70s, I went to a predominantly Filipino-Italian parish that was budding a Samoan congregation and that particular congregation was connected to the Samoan congregational church that my mother was affiliated with. So, of course, this is family based, right? But growing up in that particular setting, I was affiliated with many cultural dance groups, particularly Polynesian dance troupes and such, and through those various communities I would run into many particularly Samoan and African American children. So that was something that was pretty normalized in my upbringing. On the other side of that, my father's family was very instrumental in various liberation movements, affiliations with the Black Panthers. And so I also grew up in a very black nationalist leaning family. So, I mean, I couldn't run away from just anything that had to do with considering identity politics and what it meant to be “both and” so the wrestle started really early with me. I also want to say that because I was indoctrinated in so many questions of what it meant to be whatever it is that I was at the time. Cause you know these issues are fluid and the questions are fluid. So that extended all the way throughout even my educational journey having pursued not just a musical degree, but also degrees in cultural studies. It was the only place that I could really wrestle and engage with literature that I was already introduced to as a child, but to, you know, have opportunities to deep dive into that literature, highlighting certain figures, engaging with the writers of these literature. So by the time I got to college, it was piano performance and Africana studies for me. In the arts, through my music through musical theater performance, my Polynesian dance background, it all just kind of jumbled up into this journey of always seeking spaces that allow for that type of inquiry.   So, after undergrad, this turns into a Fullbright study and then eventually a PHD in Music and Pacific and Samoan studies. In that journey, I did not think that the outcome would be as rich as it became. I did seek out one of my supervisors, who was Teresia Teaiwa. A very prominent poet, spoken word artist and scholar, and she was the founder of the Pacific Studies program at Victoria University in Wellington, New Zealand. So I went to study underneath her. She actually is African American Banaban so from the Kiribati islands and amongst her like astounding output of work, she reached out to me and four other African American Pacific women historian artists, like we all share the same general identities to start an organization, or at least an affinity conversationalist group, called Black Atlantic, Blue Pacific. This was back in 2014 when she started the conversation with us again, I had an opportunity to now, across the world, connect with other African American Pacific peoples that were rooted in other spaces. So I was the one who was, you know, born and raised in the US But then we had Joy Enomoto an African American Hawaiian who's based in Hawaii. Ojeya Cruz, African American [?] and LV McKay, who is African American Maori based in Aotearoa. So we got together and started having very specific conversations around our responses to Black Lives Matter as it was gaining much momentum in 2015. And it was my supervisor Teresia, that said, “You have to open up about how you feel,” and particularly because I was so far away from what home was for me, she offered up a space for me to not only explore further what my response to the movement was, but also just my identity in tandem with the rest of them. So we actually began to create performance pieces along with scholarly writing about that particular moment and went to this festival of Pacific arts in 2016 which was in Guam and pretty much had a very ritualistic talk. It wasn'tinteractive, it was our space to share what our experience and stories were with an audience who did not have a chance to engage with us on it. It was us just claiming our space to say that we exist in the first place. And that was a very powerful moment for me and for the others. So to connect this back to four years later, when Jason reaches out about Black + Blue in the Pacific, the name of this group actually came from the publication that we put together for that 2016 FESPAC presentation. It really was a moment that I actually didn't think would extend out in the ways that it has, but it also felt like a duty to extend that conversation and Teresia Teaiwa has since passed, but it felt like, you know, this is what, this is the work that, that I've given you to do. So it just felt very natural to join with my cousin in this work and realize what this conversation could be across the water again, back home in the US.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:18:09] Listening to you I was I don't want to say envious, but I didn't have that same experience growing up. And, you know, oftentimes I wonder where I would be in my identity crisis, which seems like it has lasted for so long, if I had shared in similar experience as a child. I grew up in predominantly black communities and all black apostolic school and I just, I didn't have other, I mean I ran up to the one girl I saw as a college freshman and squeezed her. So that tells you a lot, but I shared similar experiences as an undergrad or in college in majoring in black studies, majoring in theater, musical theater and that being the space where I got to at least express some of who I am or who I want it to be, but definitely trying to create what you experienced or had for my daughter now, trying to make sure that she gets to be as pro black and black and proud as she wants to be rocking her Angela Davis fro while also wearing her Puletasi, trying really hard to make sure that she has all of that. Growing up, I never felt like I was welcomed in Samoan or Poly spaces or fully in black spaces either. I felt like folks had to make a point to other me or erase part of my identity for their convenience. And it's only now that I am learning who my Samoan relatives are, what are our namesake or the villages that my family comes from and reconnecting with aunts and uncles and my grandparents through the powers of Facebook. But over the years, it's been a long like push and pull. And it's because our last names are, our names are very distinctive. And so when you put that name in there suddenly like, “Oh, I found all these relatives.” Like I didn't have to do the ancestry thing because you put the name in on Facebook and all of a sudden you find all your cousins and you're seeing childhood pictures where like your own kid can't tell who's who so I know we're related. You know what I mean? But anyway, like over the years it's been this like back and forth of me deleting relatives and then, you know, letting them come back because I don't know how to broach the conversation about their anti-blackness. I don't know what to tell them when they post something that is very racist and absolutely not okay. And I don't know what to do other than, you know, I'm just going to delete you and then maybe 2 years from now, I'll, as you as a friend, again, we could try this one more time. And I have one aunt in particular, a great aunt who there was just a misunderstanding. I didn't respond to a message right away after not seeing her since I was maybe 5 or 6. I can't remember. But in my 20s, I'm getting married, she's sending me messages and I didn't respond right away. And the response I got included her calling me the N word. And so then I'm like, “Oh, okay.” I was like, trying to open up and let you all back into my life. And here we are again. So I'm done. And so I spent a lot of time, like picking and choosing who I was going to let in or not and so I've started this journey at 30. I want to learn my language. I want to figure out who is in my family tree. Who are my people? Where do I come from? And be selective about who I choose to actually grow relationships with. Like I can still know who they are, where they come from, where I come from, what my roots are, and also make choices about who gets to be in my life. And I'm only just now realizing that at 32, as I try to learn my language and reclaim what is mine, what belongs to me. All of that aside, can you relate to any of that? And if so, is there an experience that you feel comfortable sharing?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:22:00] I absolutely relate to that, to the extent, I mean, I had to go and try to get a PhD just to expand conversation with my family and I had to do it across the water. I got to a point where, just asking questions, about, you know, cultural matters, or even trying to navigate my way through a family event, while I've had many wonderful experiences, just trying to, again dig deep to understand why are we who we are, why are our family issues what they are those kinds of things, I would always hit a particular wall that was met with either like, “Why do you even care?” Or “Oh, that's not important.” But it was, this is not important for you. And I, you know, took that with a lot of like, “Well, what's that mean? I can learn anything.” And then again, that, that comes from this, like I said, black nationalist attitude of I am wholly wonderful, just in my skin as I am. Therefore, I'm smart. I'm, you know, all of those kinds of things. So it became a learning quest for me to say, not only am I going to go after learning as much as I can. I'm going to get the highest degree you could possibly get in it only to now reach a point. I mean, I'm 10 years into this program and it's been the one-two punch all the way through. And now I'm on the other side of this journey, realizing that even in that quest, this really doesn't change many of my conversations if I go back into my family, nor is it really looked upon as a notable achievement, which is to be questioned because it's like, I've done everything that I possibly can. But at the same time, it really does feel like this is the black experience as it connects to respectability politics. On another side of thing I suppose, try to aspire to be a race woman for the Pacific and specifically the Samoan identity. And that's just a really, really tall order. Right. All that to say, yes, I absolutely identify and realize that my conversation can only be had with those who are open to have it. I think that right now in this particular moment, we have more Pacific peoples and more people in our families that are willing to at least sit at the table and have conversation because they have new language around what they are wanting to know and what they would like to see for their own community. So that's really, really refreshing and inspiring.   Jason Finau: [00:24:46] I agree. I definitely [have] a lot of experience and feeling in feeling othered and feeling that my black identity was conveniently left out in a lot of conversations and a lot of learning lessons, I think, growing up. In contrast to Courtney's upbringing, I was born and raised on the Samoan side. It was everything Samoan related. My first language was Samoan. My mom stopped speaking Samoan to me at home because she recognized that I was struggling in school early on like in pre- k, kindergarten, first grade, because I couldn't keep up with the other students and they didn't have ESL for Samoan speaking kids. So, I think as a protective factor, my mother just started to distance me from the Samoan language in order to excel in school. And I think that a lot of having been able to grow up in a very large Samoan family and engaging in a lot of the traditional activities and cultural practices and doing the dances and going to a local [?] church. Having that has always been great but I think that seeing the way or listening to the way that other Samoans would refer to their own family members who were black and Pacific Islander or black and Samoan in those families, a lot of the times the language is just so derogatory, but they, that language never used to, or was never directed at me. And I think that part of that was because that people knew who my mother was and they knew who my grandparents were and I think I was insulated from a lot of that negative talk, negative behaviors against those who identified as black and then like the children that were products of those Samoan and black relationships. I reflect on that quite often because I think that when listening to a lot of the stories that I've been able to bear witness to in our black and PI group. You know, like I mentioned before that we are seeing like two different, two different upbringings, two different ways that people experience their lives as being black and Samoan. And for me, it was like, because I was wrapped in that Samoan culture, that black identity of mine was never really addressed or talked about. That then it made me feel like I just, I'm a Samoan boy. I don't identify as someone who was black. I didn't identify as someone who was black or was comfortable with identifying as someone who was black until my 20s. Late 20s, early 30s, you know when I introduced myself, it was always Samoan first black second, everything that I did, instead of joining the Black Student Union group, I joined all the Asian and Pacific Island groups at any school that I went to again, as I said, being a military brat, I went to a lot of schools growing up before college. And then in college a lot of different universities. And when I went to those programs, like in high school and junior high, I'd always be, I would always join the Asian Pacific Island groups because I didn't feel comfortable being a part of the black, any of the Black Student Unions or any black affinity groups, because again like I said my for me internally, I was Samoan and that's where I wanted to be. I didn't recognize for myself because I could see it in the mirror that I presented as someone like a black male and I think that part of the reason why I also steered more towards Asian and Pacific Island groups was because I wanted people to see me as this black guy walking into your Asian and Pacific Island group, who also is Samoan but you don't know that until I tell you. And that was for me to share and for me to just sit there for them to stare at me until I made that truth known. And that was my way of addressing that issue within the PI community. But it was also a way for me to run away from that black identity to hide from that black identity because I wasn't, I didn't want to be identified that way when I was in the API group. It's because I wanted to be identified as Samoan and not black, even though I presented. So in thinking about how a lot of those conversations went, I think one situation in particular really stuck out for me. And that's when I did a study abroad in New Zealand during undergrad and, you know, there's this whole thing about the term mea uli in Samoan to describe someone who is black and Samoan and that was the term that I remember using and being told. As a kid, growing up, my mom used it, didn't seem like there was an issue. All family members, everyone in the community is using it. So I just assumed that is exactly how it was. I never had the wherewithal to think about how to break down that word, mea uli, and think of it as like a black thing. So I was in New Zealand studying abroad and I met some students, some Samoan students in one of my classes. They invited me to their church, the local [?] church. I was like, oh great, I'll go to church while I'm here. Satisfy my mom. She's back home in Oceanside, California, telling me that I need to go to church, that I need to focus on my studies. So I do this. I go with them. And as they're introducing me to folks at their church, when I describe myself as mea uli I mean, you can hear a pin drop. It was like, these people were I don't know, embarrassed for me, embarrassed for themselves to hear me use that word to describe myself. It was just, I was, I don't think I've ever been more embarrassed about my identity than I was in that one moment, because then my friend had to pull me off to the side, just like “Oh, we don't use that word here.” Like she's like, schooling me on how derogatory that term was for those Samoans in New Zealand who identify as black and Samoan. And mind you, the friends that I was with, they were, they're both sides of the family are Samoan, and so this is a conversation that they're having with me as people who aren't, who don't identify as black and Samoan. And so then when I, I brought that back to my mom and I was just like, “Did you know this? Like, how could you let me go through life thinking this, saying this, using this word, only to come to this point in my adult life where now I'm being told that it's something derogatory.” That was a conversation that my mom and I had that we were forced to have. And I think for her, very apologetic on her end, I think she understood where I was coming from as far as like the embarrassment piece. But from her, from her perspective and her side of it, she didn't speak English when she first got to the United States either. She graduated from nursing school in American Samoa, had been in American Samoa that whole time, born and raised, came to the United States, California, didn't speak a lick of English, and was just trying to figure out her way through the whole navigating a prominently white society and trying to figure out English. And so I think language was one of the least of her worries, as far as that might have been because it's just like coupled on with a bunch of things. I mean, this is a Samoan woman who doesn't speak very much English, who is now in the military, in the Navy. So, in an occupation that is predominantly male, predominantly white and predominantly English speaking. And so, for her, there was a lot of things going on for herself that she had to protect herself from. And I think she tried to use some of those same tactics to protect me. But not understanding that there is now this added piece of blackness, this black identity that her child has to navigate along with that Samoan identity. And so, we've had some really great conversations around the choices that she had to make that she felt like in the moment were the right choices to keep me safe, to get me what I needed in order to graduate high school on time unlike a lot of our other family members, to go to college, you know, again, being the first one to have a bachelor's degree and the first one to have a master's degree, within our family tree. And so, a lot of the successes that I've had in life to be able to get to this point and have these conversations and to facilitate a group like black and PI, Black + Blue in the Pacific and to be on a podcast with all of you, were the sacrifices and choices that my mom had to make back.   I say all that because those, the choices that she had to make, she wasn't able to make them in an informed way that would have promoted my black identity along with my Samoan identity. And so having to navigate that on my own. I didn't grow up with my dad, so I don't have any connection. I didn't have any connection to the black side of my family. And so I didn't have, and then growing up in Hawaii and in Southern California, primary like San Diego, in the education piece, like the majority of my teachers were white, or in San Diego, a lot of them were Latin, Latinx, and then in Hawaii, a lot of them, they were either white or they were some type of Asian background like a lot of Chinese, a lot of Japanese teachers, but I didn't have any, I never had a Polynesian teacher, Pacific Islander teacher, and I never had a black teacher until I got to college, and then seeing that representation also had an impact on me. I think one of my most favorite sociology professors at California State University in San Marcos. Dr. Sharon Elise was just this most phenomenal, eye opening, unapologetically black woman. And it was just like the first time I was ever able to like be in the company of that type of presence and it was glorious. And I think it was part of the reason why I switched from pre med to social work. In thinking about, and going back to your original question about an experience of being othered or feeling like your black identity is erased in that company. Like I said, I walk confidently amongst and within Samoan communities, but not nearly as confidently as I do in black spaces. And even when I'm in those Samoan spaces, I'll walk into it, but then the first thing I'll do is share my last name. And then the moment I say my last name, then it's like, okay, now we can all breathe. I've been accepted. They know who I am because of who my family is based on the name that I provide. When I go into a black space, I don't have that. I don't have that convenience. I don't have that luxury. And so I think that's another reason why I was okay with allowing that black identity, my black identity to be ignored, to be silenced, to be othered because it was just easier. I think I had a lot more luxuries being on the Samoan side, than being on the black side. And now where I am today, both personally and professionally, a much, much more confident conversation can be had for myself, with myself about my identity. And then having those same conversations with my family and with my friends and in thinking about hard conversations with family members around anti-blackness, around the use of derogatory language, or around just the fact like, because we are half Samoan that we could never fully appreciate the Samoan culture and tradition. But I look at my cousins who are full Samoan, who barely speak the language, who barely graduated from high school or like are in situations where they aren't able to fully utilize an identity that can bring them the fullness or richness of their background. I'm like, all right, well, if you want to have conversations about someone who was half versus full, and then looking at those folks who are back on the island and what their perception of full Samoans are on the continental US and all of those things, like, there's so many layers between the thought processes of those who consider themselves Samoan or even just Pacific Islander, and what does that mean to them based on where they're from. And then you add that biological piece, then it's like, okay, well those who are on the continental US or outside of American Samoa or the independent nation of Samoa, what does that mean for them to be Samoan [unintelligible].   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:35:15] One of the things that you said that really resonated with me was when you were sharing the story of how your mother had, as you said, tactics to protect you as she navigated in these predominantly white spaces. That reminds me of a quote by Dr. Cornel West, who talked about having our cultural armor on. And when Courtney was sharing her story, I was thinking about how there's also educational armor and linguistic armor, and we put on layers of armor to protect ourselves in these white supremacist institutions and spaces. So both of you sharing your story and journey really was powerful for me, and also grounding it in the formative years of your educational journey and your race consciousness journey. One of the pivotal factors in my evolution and my race consciousness was being a part of the Black Student Union in my undergraduate school. And I'm Filipino, my mother's from Manila, my father's from Pampanga province. And it was actually the black community that embraced and raised my consciousness around my own liberation as an Asian person, as a Filipino person. So I'm a student in many ways, and my intellectual and spiritual evolution was really informed by the black liberation movement.   Swati Rayasam: [00:36:43] You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. Coming up is “March 4 Education” on the Anakbayan Long Beach May Day mixtape.   SONG   Swati Rayasam: [00:37:03] That was “Find my Way” by Rocky Rivera on her Nom de Guerre album. And before that was “March 4 Education” on the Anakbayan Long Beach May Day mixtape. And now back to the ConShifts podcast.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:44:12] So this is all very powerful and grounds us back in the topic that we're trying to unpack. So I have a question for both of you on how do we begin to interrogate anti-blackness in Asian and Pacific Island communities, specifically among Polynesians, Asians, Micronesians. How might we uproot anti-blackness in the spaces that we find ourselves?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:44:36] I think we need to start with identifying what blackness is in these conversations before we get to the anti part. Are we talking about skin? Are we talking about, you know, cultural expression? Are we talking about communities, black communities within our own respective nations? So one of the things that in thinking through this, today's conversation, you know, I was thinking that, you know, starting with identifying our indigenous black communities at home, you know, in pre-colonial times. And even as we have the development of the nation state, just seeing where people are in their understandings of those communities would be a wonderful place to start before we even get to the drama that is white supremacy in the US and how that monster manifests here and then spreads like a rash to the the rest of the colonial world. I would really start with like, what are we talking about in terms of black and blackness before we go into how people are responding in a way to be against it.   Jason Finau: [00:45:52] Yeah, that was solid Court. Definitely providing that definition of what blackness is in order to figure out exactly what anti-blackness is. Kind of adding to that is looking around at the various organizations that are out there. When we go back to the earlier examples of being in API spaces, but primarily seeing more Asian faces or Asian presenting faces, thinking about, and I'm just thinking about like our Black + Blue group, like, there are so many of us who identify as black and Pacific Islander or black and Asian. And yet the representation of those folks in spaces where nonprofit organizations, community organizations are trying to do more to advance the API agenda items to make sure that we get more access to resources for our specific communities, whether that's education, healthcare, employment resources, all of that. When we look at those organizations who are pushing that for our community, you just see such a lack of black and brown faces who are part of those conversations. And I would have to say that for those organizations and for the people who will participate in any of those activities that they promote. To look around and not see one person who presents as black and may identify as black and PI seems kind of problematic to me because, you know, I used to think that growing up in the 80s and 90s that outside of my cousins, there were no other black and PI people. I'm learning now as I get older and again with our Black + Blue group, that there are so many of us, I mean, there are folks who are older than I am. There are a number of people around the same age. And then there's so many young kids. And so for none of those folks to feel, and that is another, that was a common theme, from our group was that a lot of the folks just didn't feel comfortable in PI spaces to be if they were black in and Hawaiians might be comfortable in the Hawaiian space to speak up and say anything or in whatever Pacific Island space that they also belong to is that they just didn't feel comfortable or seen enough to be a part of those. I think you know, once we identify what blackness is within our within the broader API community, we can also look at well, you know, why aren't there more people like us, those of us who do identify as black and PI, why aren't more of us involved in these conversations, being asked to be a part of these conversations, and helping to drive a lot of the messages and a lot of the agendas around garnering resources for our community.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:48:18] One of the pieces that's really present for me, when you started asking the question on how we define blackness before we begin the conversation around anti-blackness reminded me of Steve Biko learning about the black consciousness movement in South Africa and the anti apartheid movement. I had the opportunity to travel to South Africa for global learning fellowship and started to learn more about the anti apartheid movement. But when Steve Biko discussed black consciousness as an attitude of mind and a way of life, it got me thinking in one direction while at the same time in this conversation that we're having here, when we talk about colorism with post colonial society, the Philippines being one of them, how does colorism show up? I'm wrestling that. So I just appreciate you bringing that question into the space.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:49:05] So Black + Blue, it's an affinity space for black Polys and I need to just say thank you for providing the space. It has been therapeutic and healing and again, everything I knew I needed and had no idea where to find. So I appreciate it so much. So I'm wondering, I guess, how do we create similar spaces for other folks? Or is there a need to like, does Black + Blue just exist for us? And is that enough? Or do we need to start thinking about doing more to create similar spaces for other folks? And I'll leave that to whoever wants to respond before my final question.   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:49:45] I'll just jump in and say that I think that, you know, any opportunity for folks to gather to create and wrestle through dialogue is absolutely necessary at this particular point in time with social media and a fairly new cancel culture that exists. It's really a detriment to having people understand how to connect and even connect through disagreement. So I think that there should always be space made for people to have tough conversations, along with the celebratory ones. So I'm always all for it.   Jason Finau: [00:50:23] Yeah, I would agree. I think if I've learned anything out of being able to facilitate the Black + Blue group that there is just such a desire for it and unknown and even an unknown desire. I think people, you know, didn't realize they needed it until they had it. And I think it feels unique now it being a black and Blue space, Black + Blue Pacific space. But I can see that need kind of going outside of us. How do we take the conversations that we're having with each other, the learning and the unlearning, the unpacking of experiences, the unpacking of feelings and emotions and thoughts about what we've all been through to share that with the broader Pacific Island community in a way that can steer some people away from some of the negative, behaviors that we find that can be associated in speaking of people who identify as black or African American? But I can see that as not just for those who identify as black and Pacific Islander, but also for parents of children who are black and Pacific Islander, and for the youth. So like right now our Black + Blue group is geared towards the adult population of those who identify as black and PI. But then also thinking about like the younger generation, those who are in high school or in middle school or junior high school, who are also maybe going through the same things that we all went through at that point and needing a safe space to have those conversations and kind of process those things. Because they may have a parent who may not understand, you know, if they only have their Pacific Island parent, or they're primarily identifying with their black side because they don't feel comfortable with the Pacific Island side, whatever their journey is being able to provide that for them, but then also providing a space for parents to understand where their kids may be coming from, to hear from experiences and learn and potentially provide their kids with the resources to navigate very complex ideas. One's identity journey is not simple. It is not easy. It is not quick. And so it's hard. And that is not something, I mean, and I don't expect every parent, regardless of what their children's ethnic background is, to understand what that means like for their kids. But to be able to have a space where they can talk it out with other parents. But I also see that for our Latinx and PI community. I see that for our Asian and PI community, those who identify as both being Asian and Pacific Islander. For me, that just comes from a personal experience because my mom is one of nine. And I think out of the nine, three of the kids had children with other Samoan partners, and the rest had either a black partner, has a Mexican partner, has a partner who identifies as Chinese and Japanese, and has another partner who is white. But I have cousins who are in this space, and so we can all share in the fact that, although we may not all physically identify or people may not be able to physically recognize us as Samoans, that is what we all share in common. So having that for them as well. And then, you know, right now we're in COVID. So it's been a blessing and a curse to be in this pandemic, but I think the blessing part was that we were able to connect with so many people in our group who are from across the states and even across the waters. Once we're able to move past this pandemic and go back to congregating in person, being able to have groups within your respective cities to be able to go and talk in person, whether it's in Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, you know, folks out in Hawaii and like in Aotearoa. Who wants to continue engaging with other folks that they feel comfortable identifying or who they also identify with. Do I think that there is a need? Absolutely. And I can see it just across the board whether people know it or not, I think once we put it in front of them, that is where they'll see like, “Yeah, we need that.”   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:53:57] I just wanted to also highlight, you know, a point of significance for me with this group and hopefully one that would serve as a model for other organizations and groups that may develop after this, is modeled off of cultural studies, which is the process of actually remembering and relearning things that we've things and peoples that we've forgotten and with Black + Blue in the Pacific, it's really important to me to also include, and keep the Melanesian, the black Pacific voice in that conversation to model for other peoples of color to reach out to black peoples at home, or regionally to understand and again, remember those particular cultural networks that existed in pre colonial times and even sometimes well into colonial times, as current as you know, the 1970s black liberation movements to highlight Asian and Pacific and, and, and, and other peoples that were non black, but very instrumental in that fight for liberation as a whole, but starting with black liberation first. So, I think this is a really good time in an effort towards uprooting anti-blackness to highlight just how old our relationships with black peoples and black peoples in relationship with Asians and Pacific peoples, South Asians, Southeast Asians, it just goes on and on, to say that we've been in community positively before, so we can do it again.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:55:52] That is the most perfect way to wrap up the episode in reminding us to remember, and reminding us that all of our liberation is definitely tied to black liberation that they're inextricably linked together. Thank you, Courtney. Thank you, Jason. Fa'a fatai te le lava thank you for listening.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:13] Salamat thank you for listening.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:14] We want to thank our special guests, Jason and Courtney, one more time for rapping with us tonight. We appreciate you both for being here and really helping us continue to build the groundwork for Continental Shifts Podcast.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:24] Continental Shift Podcast can be found on Podbean, Apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:30] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archive footage and grab some merch on our website.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:36] Join our mailing list for updates at conshiftspodcast.com. That's C-O-N-S-H-I-F-T-S podcast dot com and follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:52] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:56] Keep rocking with us fam, we're gonna make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, all together.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:02] Fa'fetai, thanks again. Tōfā, deuces.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:57:04] Peace, one love.   Swati Rayasam: [00:57:07] Please check out our website, kpfa.org backslash program backslash apex express. To find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Axpress is produced by Miko Lee, along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Kiki Rivera, Nate Tan, Hien Ngyuen, Cheryl Truong, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a great night. The post APEX Express – 1.30.25 Continental Shifts: Anti Blackness in the PI Community appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Powerleegirls Hosts Miko Lee and Jalena Keane-Lee host and Ayame Keane-Lee edits a chat about leadership, growth and change during a time of crisis. Listen to Jalena speak with Meng Hua from Tiger Eye Astrology about her path from palm reading to artistry to bazi. Then hear Miko speak with Zen Master Norma Wong  about her new book When No Thing Works. More information about our guests: Meng Hua's Tiger Eye Astrology  Zen Master Norma Wong her new book When No Thing Works Guide to how to hold space about the book   Pathways To Humanity Show Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:29] Tonight on APEX Express: the PowerLeeGirls mother-daughters team. I'm the editor of tonight's show Ayame Keane-Lee joined by our hosts Jalena Keane-Lee and Miko Lee. Tune in as they interview our guests about Pathways – internal and external journeys we take to connect to humanity. First my sister Jalena speaks with Meng Yu about her journey as a full time artist and practitioner of the mantic arts. Then Mama Miko speaks with Norma Wong, the abbot of Anko-in about her latest book When No Thing Works. So listen in to APEX Express. First up is Jalena's interview with Meng Yu.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:01:08] Hello, everyone. I am here with Meng Yu, who is a Chinese astrologer from Tiger Eye Astrology. And today we're talking all about astrology and learning from the stars and other elements to help guide our life path and our decisions and choices. Thanks so much for being here, Meng.    Meng Yu: [00:01:27] Thanks so much for having me, Jalena. It's a pleasure to have this conversation with you.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:01:33] It truly is. and so I'm curious if you could just start us off talking a little bit, you know, about your practice and how you came to the work that you're doing today.    Meng Yu: [00:01:42] I have been a practitioner of the mantic arts for, over a decade and the mantic arts, include astrology, but also divination. So as part of my practice, I also do I Ching or Yijing divination. and it's a kind of circuitous way of how I ended up on this path. I'm also a, a full time artist. and you know, that's kind of how I make my bread and butter. And it's also. In a way, how I approach, Chinese astrology and divination as well, I guess to backtrack a little bit, I always like to start by honoring my teachers and their lineages. So, primarily my teacher has been Master Zongxian Wu, who is my Bazi teacher and also is the lineage holder of, four traditional schools of internal arts. and then I also have a host of daoist teachers who are also artists. their own right, visual artists, martial artists, writers who live in and embody the Dao. these include Lindsey Wei, Dengming Dao, uh, Tamara Jha, Lily Kai. And so, I also want to shout out to my group. Late sixth great aunt as well. My Leo Gupo, who when I was eight years old, she gave me my first introduction to the art of divination through. palm reading. so she actually taught me, sort of an Eastern style of palm reading at a young age. But growing up, other than that, I, was not influenced by, this, form of, wisdom traditions from my heritage. My parents are, both Chinese and they are both, of the cultural revolution generation, which was a mass genocide that occurred in China, right as they were coming of age. So they're very, survival oriented, practical people, you know, from Just historically in China, from the fall of the Qing dynasty to the rise of communism, much of the mantic arts traditions, were basically lost in the cultural landscape. So, how I came to this work, was not really so much through my upbringing as, The search for, I guess, healing in my own life experiences and coming to, sort of critical junctures, and crisis, personal crises in my life where I really sought, alternative, dimensions and ways of, reconnecting to my My purpose and just healing in my life. So I, over a decade ago found myself, in the jungles of Peru, having very close, connections to a shamanistic tradition involving plant medicine, which opened me up to really asking, you know, what are the shamanic and animistic roots. of the wisdom traditions from my own heritage. And this brought me to working with the Yijing, as well as Chinese astrology. So that's, that's kind of a mouthful. It's a bit of a long and complicated story, but that's, that's sort of the bullet notes version.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:05:18] Thank you so much for sharing that. It's perfect because my next question was going to be about, you know, your lineage of healers that you studied under, but I feel like you covered that already really well. So I'm curious, you know, you talked about Bazi and Yijing, could you kind of give us a little bit of a breakdown of these like different modalities and how you use them?    Meng Yu: [00:05:35] Sure, absolutely. so, In the readings that I do for folks, the most popular readings are actually a combination of Yijing divination and Bazi astrology. So to give a little context for both, the Yijing Translates as the book of change or the book of changes it, although it has roots and what we would call, currently ancient Siberia, ancient China, it actually dates back to Neolithic times. Really before, the formation of these nation states. So it's some of our early human ancestors. It's their recorded search for wisdom through the observation of cycles and patterns in nature over thousands of years. as the book of change, as the study of change, it's the oldest compounded record of, the study of time itself. and the Bazi astrology is a modality of Chinese astrology that really came into prominence during the Han Dynasty. the turn of the century, the common era, and, it translates as eight characters. So ba meaning eight and zi meaning character. So there is a element in animal for not only your year of birth, which is what? Folks are mostly familiar with, but also the month, day, and hour. So these are called four pillars. So sometimes the system is called the four pillars of destiny. And we get a look at, these characters that make up one's nature. And the way that I So when I see the two modalities working together, I often give people the metaphor of, you know, say you're in, the ocean of your life and you're driving a boat or a ship. The Yijing is like a weather report. The Yijing gives us an idea of the changes that we are currently in. So are we headed in a storm? is it clear blue skies ahead? What are the conditions of the wind and the waves? And the bazi chart looks at the kind of ship that you are driving. So it could be, you know, a submarine. It could be a sailboat. It could be an ocean tanker. And they all have different conditions. strengths and gifts and flavors of power, as well as certain kinds of limitations and vulnerabilities. And so the bazi chart really looks at these qualities of our nature and encourages us to embrace who we actually are so that we can learn to drive our ship better.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:08:47] Thank you so much for that breakdown and description, and in addition to offering readings, of which I loved, I absolutely loved getting a reading with you, and it was so informative and inspirational, but in addition to these readings and offerings that you have for other people, I'm curious how you use these modalities in your own life, whether it's with your art practice, or just with life choices and changes how do you, use these ways of knowing for yourself?   Meng Yu: [00:09:12] It's very important for me as an astrologer and as a daoist to, to align my life according to the times, these modalities, both the Yijing and Chinese astrology. What they point to at the foundation of their wisdom is the question of what time is it, right? This is where the roots of the tradition come from. It's from telling time, and through understanding time and studying time, we're able to divine When is a good time? what is the right time? And knowing that gives our lives profound meaning and context. so, on the more kind of mundane level, it's adjusting my calendar to observe time with this additional context of living with the seasons. there's actually 24 different seasons, according to the qi nodes of The Chinese lunar and solar calendar. There's also the lunar cycles as well. And these are not simple, mathematical markings. They have, very deep meanings behind them that help us align with the qi quality of the moment. So they give our lives meaning by showing us, is this a time to sow seeds, to be inspired and enlivened like springtime? is it a time of Growing potential, or are we entering a time where we need to, not be accumulating, in terms of harvest, but actually be engaged in shedding, by observing the patterns and cycles of nature, And following the nature of the forces that we find ourselves in, we can align ourselves to live in harmony, and to be in, better alignment with the dao. So that's one way that I see the Chinese calendar providing context for my life. The wisdom of the Yijing has been such a profound. Collaborator in my life. not only in studying and attempting to apply its wisdom, but also has been an incredible creative collaborator for me as an artist. So, one of my favorite things to do is to divine with the Yijing to help make creative choices in my work, and to really treat the Oracle as a collaborator. So I really enjoyed using it in this creative way and as a practice for listening and channeling, which I think is useful for any artist to engage in a meditative practice where, it's not a sense of creativity coming necessarily from you, but actually through you. and that's something that the Yijing through working with it for so many years has really taught me to embody.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:12:19] I love that so much. have you noticed any changes in your life, your energy levels, or your art practice since kind of aligning your life with these forces?    Meng Yu: [00:12:30] Yeah, you know, I would love to say, Oh, everything's just gotten better and better. Now I just live like the perfect artist life. It's that would, that's really not, nothing could be really further from the truth because I think it's really about being in the school of life. You know that this is a form of education and it's a continual form of practice, and, as I've been engaged in it, in over 10 years, every year, the lessons have, there's been more layers of depth and challenge, which I think is, , Something that unfolds sort of dependent on what you're you're ready for. There is a hexagram in the Yijing that Shows you that you are undergoing a massive transition where you're carrying the burden of a really heavy weight . And one of the things you're encouraged to see is to reflect on how, what you are experiencing now is something that would have completely overwhelmed you a year ago or a cycle ago. We are given tasks. And, asked to carry burdens, given what we are ready for. And so, although I would like to say, Oh, it's made my life so easy. I know what to do all the time now. That's not the narrative at all. I feel like there's a kind of profound, I guess maybe meditative experience where I have a little bit more distance now from things affecting me, in an immediate personal way because now I can, refer to. This collaborator, this friend, for advice or allowing me to see where I am in a cycle to reflect what I have exited from, hopefully to be prescient of what's to come, to identify familiar themes and to see, that I'm continuously revolving around, a spiral where Certain points come back that feel very familiar, but it's a couple rungs, deeper, where it's not like just a circle of things repeating, but it's a spiral where there's new layers of depth that, follow familiar themes, if that makes sense.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:15:06] Yeah, that does. and I know you've talked about, too, how it's like a method for communicating with your ancestors and kind of having An additional channel of communication. So I'm just curious about, yeah, that kind of practice of communication and bringing that forward in your work and how that experience has been for you.   Meng Yu: [00:15:28] Yeah. the piece about ancestors is really an interesting one, because I think what the gift of Chinese astrology to me is that it puts The self within a kind of different context where we're encouraged to see ourselves, not as some, definable thing that has innate qualities, but through Chinese astrology, where we see the elements, the animals, the the stars that indicate ancestral influences, the, unfinished business, the karma, the fate of our ancestors that have been given to us. We're encouraged to see the self as just a live kind of wiggly end of 10, 000 dead people. You know, that what makes us who we are is an enormous inheritance. And what we are here to play out in our lives is this dance between fate and freedom. It doesn't mean that we don't have access to creativity in our lives, but that freedom is inherently, explored and discovered through playing with the limitations of our fate. So for instance, in our natal charts, You can see certain hauntings or ghost energies, inherited from ancestors. So for instance, in my personal chart, I have an inheritance called hidden moaning, which shows an ancestor that has not completed grieving and grief work in their lifetime. And so it kind of. imbues my life with unexplainable bouts of sadness. sometimes this can result in, depression, grieving, this like, wailing grief and knowing this in my chart, I'm able to see that kind of sadness is not something that is just mine, meaning, you know, growing up, the question would be like, Oh, why me, or what am I doing wrong? Why do I feel like this? What's wrong with me? When we look at our lives through the context of ancestors, it becomes a lot more relational, meaning your grief, these burdens are not simply yours. They're a call for communication with your lineage and opening up that pathway, that communication itself is how we resolve the fate of our ancestors. by Listening by asking, what is it that they want, our lives are not just lived for us, but our lives are a way for our ancestors to resolve unfinished chi, that they were not able to complete in their lifetimes. So, you know, when I feel these bouts of sadness, I know that it's time for me to open up these channels, that I can sit in meditation, that I can, engage in my creative practice as a way to channel and speak to my ancestors and ask them what it is that they would like to come forth. What messages they have? That they need to share and speak.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:19:11] Wow, you just dropped so many gems and I was like taking notes. I really like that idea of, you know, this dance between fate and freedom and living out our ancestors kind of unfinished business and promises and hopes. And I'm curious also how this practice has impacted or potentially deepened your own understanding of your culture and your relationship to being Chinese or Chinese American or however you identify.   Meng Yu: [00:19:40] Yeah, it's really provided. I feel extremely honored and, you know that I've been able to work with so many amazing teachers and adepts and have been trusted to practice as well as teach these modalities. it has brought me really close to my ancestors in a very intimate way, you know, like I just talked about with hidden moaning, as well as giving me such an appreciation for the wisdom traditions of my heritage. and this really dates back really beyond, again, our understanding of the nation states of, you know, what it means to be Chinese, it actually gives me a lot of respect for what our ancient human ancestors have left behind for us, their legacy, you know, because the roots of this tradition Like I mentioned, it actually goes back 50, 70, 000 years ago to the retreat of the last ice age. And so we're really talking about nomadic hunter gatherers and their survival, how they observed nature, terrains, and sky. Over cyclical time, they survived by following migration routes of animals and celestial bodies that allowed them to engage in an animistic perspective of life, that, all landscapes, including the landscapes of the cosmos, all of nature is sentient. And this. I guess that world view of aliveness of sentience and intelligence, as well as reciprocity and resonance. You know, that all environments and us, because we are innately tied to that, we are nature. You know, that we're in this reciprocal conversation all the time with life, that I think has had the most profound influence on my life, this idea that we're not just caretakers of the environment, but we are the environment. We are all adapting to each other too. The forces around us inside of us that there's this continual movement of cycles and circulation. that I think is really this wisdom core of the tradition that has really made me feel like not just a citizen of my culture and my ethnicity, but really a citizen of this planet, of Earth. from literally, you know, the air that we breathe, down to the food that we eat down to our blood, it's the same movement of circulation that connects us all and this, you know, really informs my, my worldview and my sense of belonging, my sense of, communion with life.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:22:54] I feel like these messages and this kind of information about ancestors, unfinished business, purpose in life. It can be both empowering and overwhelming at times. Like, that was my experience of the reading as well. And we're living at a time where In the US for sure and also globally where there's so much going on and it is a moment that can feel empowering at times but also can feel very, very overwhelming so I'm curious if there are certain ways that you practice keeping the faith in amidst times like these or navigating things that are overwhelming but can be seen as, empowering at the same time.    Meng Yu: [00:23:32] Yeah, absolutely. That's a really fabulous question. you mentioned faith, and I think that's a really interesting concept to dig into because I actually hesitate to use the word faith. I like to use the word trust know that we can develop our existential trust through understanding. Tempo with these. modalities, like I mentioned, there's this, putting us back into time, into rhythm, not just Chinese astrology. I think all ancient calendars does this for us, that they Put us back into an earth based tempo and rhythm and helps us understand that the meaning of our lives come from the context of everything that sustains us. And that this isn't some kind of belief system that you have to be indoctrinated in. It is an observable truth that you can see through observing patterns. and cyclical time. Yin and yang is not some far fetched idea that you have to believe in. It's literally night and day, these are the basic rhythms through which our lives have delineation and tempo and when we develop our synchronicity with this type of regularity and rhythm, we develop a kind of trust. and This trust comes from confidence through observation over time, and because we don't like live outside anymore, we're not really in touch with what our ancestors, the ancients observed and recorded in their calendars. You know, the regularity of movement from observing the sun, the moon, the stars and the seasons. And when we can reunite with that, that actually provides a sense of trust. so, when we engage in these modalities, whether it's astrology or divination, we're, we're reading tempo and even with Chinese medicine, Chinese medicine takes a pulse, you know, it's reading your body as a tempo. It's indicating your rhythm, the quality of your rhythm. So even in our medicine, we are reading our bodies temporally. So this idea of time is so fundamental for me in this idea of trust in alignment with rhythm and regularity. In the Tao Te Ching, which is one of the canonical texts of Daoism, the word for trust, Ching, is used many times and it's about, trust is defined. also as a kind of power. It's defined as how beings attain their actuality, that you need trust in order to grow, that it's part of your process of becoming. And through Daoism and through Chinese astrology, which was very much, informed through Daoism. And we learned that the way to grow our Xing, our trust, is to return our body to the rhythm of the universe. Now that the Daoist cure for our anxieties, which stem from a sense of our independent existence. You know, of our, individuality that is such a small, piece of this enormity. The cure for our anxieties is to identify our singularity, our single body with the body of the whole world. And we do that through aligning our tempo, aligning our rhythm. this is one way that we see the intricate ways that we are all interconnected. And I know I just said some really kind of big abstract things, but, I hope that's making sense.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:49] Yes, no, aligning and yeah, the tempo and pace of the world. I saw something recently that was like, you know, the power of treating our own bodies like gardens that we're cultivating and not like machines. And I feel like that's sticking to what you were just talking about, too, of like, you know, we are also. Plants and beings that need to be tended to and taken care of and to see ourselves that way in alignment with like the world and the pace of the world.   Meng Yu: [00:28:16] Yeah, absolutely. I love that plant metaphor because it brings us back in touch with life and life cycles, that seeds are sown in the spring. Leaves are shed in the fall, you know, that. Life force and life energy also needs to have time to retreat and withdraw in the winter. All the chi is going back underneath the ground where it's not visible. All the outward and external energy is going inward. It's going hidden. That's the power of yin. When we observe and practice modalities that have survived, not just one genocide, but many, many genocides over thousands of years, we can start to build of broader understanding of the patterns of the universe, the cycles of time. And this is one way that we can embrace and this work with the realities of what's happening, you know, in the current poly crises of our times in, civilization and ecological collapse, you know, it's important that we come to terms with where we are in cycles so that we do the practice that is needed of the Grieving of shedding the anger and the sadness that comes with this time to not live in denial of it and to learn from our ancestors and how they have survived through these times through the practice and the wisdom of understanding, The cycles of nature, how we renew and, regenerate life, the daoists were really concerned with, what is called immortality, but immortality is not like one person living forever. Immortality is. A broader concept about the continuation of life, you know, how do we live in a way that is truly sustainable, that is self sustaining in Chinese, the word for nature is zhi ran, which means self: zhi ran self fulfilling, self renewing, self sustaining. So embedded in the wisdom of these practices is this sense of aligning our lives, aligning our choices in a way that allows life to continue.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:30:52] Absolutely. Yes. more life and more environments where life can grow and thrive. I'm curious, you know, if anyone who's listening is now really interested in learning more about Chinese astrology, learning more about your work, what would be the best ways for them to start? And then also if there's anything else that you want to share.   Meng Yu: [00:31:11] The best way to find me is to go to my website. I'm not on social media, so, you'll have to get on the web and find me at www. tigereyeastrology.com and from there you can, contact me, request a reading, as well as just read more about, the different modalities that I practice, a little more about myself, and the perspectives that I bring.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:31:38] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org. Next up is Miko's interview with Norma Wong.   Miko Lee: [00:32:01] Welcome Norma Wong to Apex Express. We are so happy to have you with us today.   Norma Wong: [00:32:06] Aloha, Mikko. Thank you for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:32:09] I want to just first start off, you, hold dear to my heart. I just finished reading your book, which I'm excited to talk about, but I just want to start in the very beginning by asking you a question, which is based on a question from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. Who are your people, and what legacy do you carry with you from them?    Norma Wong: [00:32:29] Oh, Miko, how much time do you have? my people are people of the Pacific. You know, the people who came, who crossed the ocean, now six generations ago to this place called Hawaii, who are the haka. Nomadic people of China who really traveled all over China came as contract work and my people are the indigenous people of Hawaii, of these islands where I live and where you happen to be right now, on in terms of this interview and, with the indigenous people, the Kanaka Maoli, the native wines of this place. I am blessed to be the ancestors of these two strong strands of people and really, people who have long migrated, irrespective of where they're coming from, where they're going to.   Miko Lee: [00:33:23] That is beautiful. And what legacy do you carry with you from those people?    Norma Wong: [00:33:28] I would say the legacy that I carry is the legacy of remembering food, remembering stories, passing on stories, creating stories into the future so that we may know where it is that we will go to. And I would say that I also carry the legacy of people who can both be with each other and also be fiercely independent with respect to not having to really depend on anything other than their wits, the land that they're on, of the people who are close to them, what the winds may be able to tell them.   Miko Lee: [00:34:11] Thank you so much. I'm very excited. I just finished reading your new book, which is titled, When No Thing Works: A Zen and Indigenous Perspective on Resilience, shared purpose, and leadership in the timeplace of collapse. Incredibly long title and incredibly appropriate for the time we live in right now. Can you share a little bit about what inspired you to create this work?    Norma Wong: [00:34:39] Well, I will, I will say frankly that the book would have not been written if not for Taj James and some of your listeners may know who this is. He is a movement leader and activist, who resides in Northern California, but really does a lot of work everywhere. And Taj, actually convinced me over a two year time period, to write this particular book. And I finally did so, because of a question that he asked. The question that he asked is, with respect to the kinds of knowledge that spiritual ways practice and pass on person to person, can that happen quickly enough only with the people who are directly in front of you? Will that happen quickly enough for the times that we're in? And I had to reflect upon that and say, no, because we were in a time of collapse. And so I had to take the chance of writing something that would find its way into the hands of people who were not directly in front of me. And that is, not the ways of the long line of teachers that I have had.   Miko Lee: [00:35:58] Can you talk a little bit about some of the teachers that you've had and how you carry on the legacy of those teachers that you have had, the impact they've made on you.    Norma Wong: [00:36:09] I've been blessed with many teachers, some of whom are in my young time days. I particularly remember a teacher from my elementary school days, Mrs. Trudy Akau. She was, Native Hawaiian and Portuguese and a woman of big voice and grand stature. And Mrs. Akau really wanted every single one of her students to Be able to find voice in whatever ways, that they might, whether it be writing or through reading or speaking, telling stories. So I certainly remember. This is a call. I remember Tanoi Roshi, uh, my Zen teacher. He was born Stanley Tanoi, second generation Japanese American grew up in Hawaii and who became a teacher. in his own right, not only with respect to Zen, but the martial arts and Stanley Tanoy, who we all know is Tanoy Roshi, is certainly considered to be my primary spiritual teacher, for whom it is now my responsibility to follow his line. I would say that there are people that I have worked with. who are my teachers, you know, so John Waiheee, who was the first native Hawaiian governor of Waii, I certainly consider him to be a significant teacher of mine, as do some young people, some people who are younger than I am. I consider them to be my teachers as well.   Miko Lee: [00:37:41] You mentioned your Zen teacher, Tanoue Tenshin Roshi and you quote in the book him saying, the truth is the intersection of everyone's perspective, if we could only know that. Can you speak more about this?    Norma Wong: [00:37:55] We are, as humans, we're, we're very certain that our perspective is the truth, that whatever it is that we see. But even from a biological perspective, science shows that what it is that registers in our mind is only a small portion of what it is that even our biology is absorbing. And so. We have this tendency to have a lens with respect to how we see the world that lens is colored by many things. And so what is actually so is difficult to ascertain. And this is just in terms of what may be right in front of us, let alone that which may come to us on a secondhand basis, and even more complicated by the way people get most of their information these days. Which is not through direct experience, but through information that has been provided by other channels, the vast aspects of social media, for example, the echo chambers of the conversation, in which we take as facts, things that are talked about that have been observed by other people who are analyzing that which someone else may or may not have actually seen by their own eyes. So we're many times removed from the actual experience of things. And so to know the truth, is a complex thing.    Miko Lee: [00:39:28] As you sort of mentioned this, but it feels like we are living, in this time where there's multiple truths, and especially with the propaganda that we're seeing from right wing mindsets that are really resistant to, influence especially around harm, unless they directly experienced that harm. In cases where it feels like this progress is really stalled until those people experience that kind of harm personally, what is the best way for us to intervene constructively?    Norma Wong: [00:39:56] Well, I think the first thing that we have to do is to make sure that we are also not doing the same thing in reverse. You know, which is to say that the aspect of harm, The many impacts that people may feel will be felt differently. So that which I believe has harmed me would seem to you as not being harmful at all. We tend to see harm, not from a meta perspective, but from an individualized perspective. And so to actually come out of the weeds of that and place ourselves In an observer's stance of community more generally, of humans more generally, not within the analysis of that, not within the frameworks of that, but to observe actual experiences is something that needs to happen on the left and the right and the center. the American. Value system doesn't help, which is to say that we live in a very individualized society. Our country was formed on the basis of values that are individualized. Even something that we'd say may be universal, such as human rights, we tend to think of it through an individualized lens. And to come more into the whole of it, to not. view our existence as being either dependent or independent of others, but more from the perspective of being interdependent. And you know, by interdependence, I'm, I mean that the success that we may have is born not only of my efforts, but the efforts of others. And if it is at the expense of someone else's welfare, then it is not interdependent. So that type of existence, you know, which I would describe as a more indigenous way of being, is what our times call for.    Miko Lee: [00:41:55] I'm wondering, you have such an interesting background as working in the legislature here in Hawaii and then fighting for homeland rights, supporting people in Lahaina. I'm wondering how you have combined both your indigenous background and your own. Zen belief system, how that has influenced you politically.   Norma Wong: [00:42:16] Well, if I were to reflect on that question, I would say that I was extraordinarily fortunate to begin my spirit practice at almost the same instant that I was coming up in the political world. And so I. did not see one as separate from the other. In fact, I would say that the fortune of that is that there are many aspects about the introspective nature of spirit work that, you have to interrupt your ego at every instant. And as you might imagine, there are many ways in, in the political world. Where the ego takes on an outsized importance to what it is that you're doing. And so it's an important centering value that you would get from the Zen practice. But to me, A thing that attracted me to Zen is that it is almost inherently indigenous and, by that I mean that the Zen values are based on interdependence of the whole and the whole does not only include humans, it includes other beings in the universe itself. And so, to center your political actions and the ways in which you might grapple with an issue is not to separate the issue from the people and the place, and to take into consideration not only the history of that, but what your actions would mean for the descendants that have not yet been born. And in that respect, there's should be no separation. In fact, there should be a profound way, in which that can hold your political decision making. your political conversation, your political actions within the concepts and the values of people in place.    Miko Lee: [00:44:08] So centering on people and place and our interconnectedness with each other. That's really powerful and so important and I'm going back to your saying we have to interrupt the ego and I'm wondering in times when we're about to see 45 enter into his, second administration and the impact of somebody who is ego full or narcissistic and this divide that we're seeing, how do we hold faith in ourselves to help to interrupt that ego when it's happening on such a national scale?    Norma Wong: [00:44:41] Well, there's a thing about ego, which is to say that My ego can only be interrupted by me. Your ego can only be interrupted by you. Now, strategy is a different thing, but that's not the subject of this interview. But with respect to ego, it's going to be part of the environment. it's going to be part of what exists and it'll be a powerful way in which you would see many egos, playing with each other. That's going to be a dynamic that will occur. So I would say there's a lot of work to do. Especially if we know that the construct of government, irrespective of whether this person or another person is holding this job. is in a place of peril and the institutions generally are having difficulty in this moment. Some people, because of who it is that they are and the ego that they have, will supercharge the collapse. In other words, they will increase the momentum of that collapse. And so, in that increase of the momentum of the collapse, there's a lot going on. To be done to ensure that peoples and communities and places are able to do what may be necessary to effectively sustain themselves and each other in relationship to each other, all of the things that they may have otherwise been dependent on the artificial structure called government. And with respect to ego, for us to understand that we have to have enough healthy ego to believe in our own capacity, to be able to work with each other, to take on this huge task, not only through these next four years, but in a period of time beyond that.   Miko Lee: [00:46:29] And what are some of the practices or frameworks that can help sustain us during this time to come?    Norma Wong: [00:46:35] Certainly the practice of, not running dry, you know, that within every 24 hour cycle, if we are to be at the top of our game, then we have to pay attention to make sure that we have enough rest, that we have the sustenance we need, Remain hydrated. I mean, very simple things to not waste away our time in the internal dialogue that keeps spinning to separate ourselves from the habits that keep us from making decisions that taking on too many things means that no thing that you do will be given the kind of attention that it needs, the kind of focus that it needs. the kind of depth that it requires. And so this is a time of choices, in order to achieve that place of abundance. You cannot have many things on the plate at the same time. So simple choices, with respect to the practices that you have, And once that require the dreaded D word, which is discipline.    Miko Lee: [00:47:43] Mm. One of the things that has arisen a lot within the network that I work in, AACRE, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, is a lot of folks, especially young folks, are finding themselves in able to have conversation with family members or elders that, have different political viewpoints what is a good way to go about navigating this tension with people who hold really different political and therefore, in their minds, worldviews than you, but you are connected to?    Norma Wong: [00:48:12] Well, it may not be possible to have a political conversation the question is, are you still in relationship? I think that is the primary question. are you able to meet someone's eyes? Or do you just look away? can you feed each other? I mean, literally, do you know the foods that other people desire or need? Can you make them? Not just buy it and assemble it from the nearest store. Are we tending to each other's needs? Emotional welfare, are we observant of the ways in which we may be getting into a place of need that we're not asking support for. It's like politics should not be. the first conversation you have with someone, it's like that, the first conversations that you would have with people should be one of relationship and of community, and that if you're going to slip into that part where you're going to say, well, because of your politics, I'm going to put you in this room or that room, then the, possibility of us being able to proceed as people is just not going to be possible. The civil rights, as a political movement, succeeded. I believe that as a social change movement, there is still a lot of work to be done. And that we put a little bit too much of a dependence on the wins that we had politically. And then We believed that, because those wins were, that the world would change as a result of that. Hearts and minds were not necessarily changed. And the heart and mind work is the work of community, the work of storytelling, the work of arts, generally. The work of building relationships with people, so that irrespective of the label that they thought that you carry, that you can have a greater understanding of desires and motivations, needs, and ways in which you might be able to be mutually with each other. So we have to start by actually being in relationship with people versus relationship with our ideas. A relationship with points of view and that is something that we may have given short shrift to. And I would say that that's like a Western kind of thing, like, you know, okay, we're going to have a meeting and, let's sit down for a meeting. By the way, we're not going to spend any time getting to know each other. We want to get directly to. Whatever the point of the meeting happens to be, or in the case of family. You know, it's like, families are complicated. One of the reasons why families are complicated is because we are in blood relationship to each other and therefore forever bound. But that does not mean that we have actually done the work to get to know each other. It does not mean that at all.   Miko Lee: [00:51:09] Thank you. I'm wondering if you can, talk about how do we hold on to our work as activists, and kind of the ultimate urgency of what's happening in the world, like I'm thinking specifically, there's a lot of conversations about the new laws that might happen right after the inauguration . And so there's a sense of urgency there. How do we hold on to ourselves but balance that with that sense of urgency.    Norma Wong: [00:51:34] Well, I like to put urgency in a slightly different perspective. Which is to say that the urgency that I see is what is the work that needs to be done to ensure that descendants that are not yet born will be able to live the kind of life that I would hope them to have in a world that would be able to sustain that. And if I put that out, as. What is urgent, then that forces me, in a way that I choose into, to pay attention to. Larger stories, larger work, more extensive aspects of work that also require many more people to be engaged in. And, to begin right now, because it's urgent, you know, for example, if there's a possibility, That the aquifer will become contaminated, and we do not yet know whether or not that will be the case. Then it's urgent that we work to make sure that whatever contaminant is in the ground will not get to the aquifer and therefore, we have to work on that right now. And so that which we may advocate for with urgency will be about the things that are going to be required. For the long haul and not just a defensive reactive, type of action, just to attempt to defend the things that are collapsing around us at the moment caught. In a tighter and tighter action reaction, a kind of way in which we make choices and make decisions, which will mean that the urgent work to ensure that the descendants will be able to have a better life in a sustainable place. will not be done and will not done in time for that to occur.    Miko Lee: [00:53:26] Thank you so much, for pulling that sense of urgency out to a broader perspective. It reminds me of that Grace Lee Boggs quote, what time is it on the clock of the world that we're really thinking about multiple generations and the ancestors to come and not just what the deadline is immediately. Can you talk with us a little bit about the hu, Hu, that you describe in your book?    Norma Wong: [00:53:50] So I think of Hu as, you know, capital H and, small U as like the missing element on the periodic table. Okay. So, you know, the periodic table it contains all of the elements that are supposed to exist in the universe, and I believe that there's an element called the human quotient. The human quotient is the stuff that humans need to have in order for us to actually evolve as the peoples that we're intended to be. And that the earth requires so, you know, among the human quotient elements would be courage, for example, courage being that which we do, even in the face of fear. So there'll be characteristics like that, but even more fundamental than the characteristics, there is whether or not we will access.and hold d center to everything, the collective humanity of who we are and who we need to become. Whether we take that at the center or will we, will we just see people as a series of identities, a series of allegiances to particular flags as keepers and adherence to ideologies. as, generations or genders, will we just see people as categories? And so, this aspect of coming into our humanity, is what I'm referring to as the human quotient. One of the chapters in the book.    Miko Lee: [00:55:27] Thank you so much. Can you tell us what you would love people to understand after reading your book, When No Thing Works?   Norma Wong: [00:55:37] I would want them to understand that the work is a distillation. So it's very concentrated. It's like Malolo syrup, a favored concentrated syrup that is essentially the fruit punch of the islands. You have to add water to it in order for you to get it to a place where it can actually bear fruit and it can be delicious for you. And that water is yourself, your own experience, your own practice, your own hopes, your own purposes. And if you add that to the book, then the book will be your Malolo syrup.    Miko Lee: [00:56:17] Oh, that is such a great analogy. I love that you're talking to it. It's a syrup. And actually there is a tudy guide or it's called navigate, but the resource to help people go through the book and have conversations with family and friends, which I think is so lovely. It's such a great way for people to read the book in community.    Norma Wong: [00:56:37] Yes. The book site is, Normawong.com and, I believe that the Navigate Guide will be available on that site.    Miko Lee: [00:56:46] And I will host a link to all those things on the show notes for Apex Express. Norma Wong, thank you so much for spending time sharing with us about your work. Um, I really appreciate you and the wisdom that you're sharing for multiple generations. Thank you so much.   Norma Wong: [00:57:04] Thank you, Miko. Thank you so much. Please enjoy your day.    Miko Lee: [00:57:09] You too. And I also want to give a shout out to my amazing friend that introduced me to you, Mariah Rankin Landers, whose book, Do Your Lessons Love Your Students? Creative Education for Social Change really influenced me. And she helped provide some of the context for this conversation. So I thank you to Mariah and thank you for spending time with me, Norma. Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.     The post APEX Express – 1.16.25 – Pathways To Humanity appeared first on KPFA.

Send us a textlovethylawyer.comA transcript of this podcast is available at lovethylawyer.com.Go to https://www.lovethylawyer.com/blog for transcripts.Chief Assistant City Attorney Maria Bee oversees both the Affirmative Litigation, Innovation & Enforcement Division, that focuses on injustices that impact Black, Indigenous, Latina/o/x, Asian / Pacific Islander, and other historically and/or presently marginalized communities, and the General & Complex Litigation Division (defense) of the Oakland City Attorney's Office.  Before taking this post, Ms. Bee served as the Chief of the Victim Services Division in the San Francisco District Attorney's Office. In this role, she was responsible for providing critical services to victims of crime in San Francisco. Ms. Bee is a Commissioner on the California Law Revision Commission, a member of the Charles Houston Bar Association and serves on the board of the Alameda County Bar Association. She formerly chaired the Alameda County Bar Association's Lawyer Referral Service committee and served as Chairperson of the Board of Directors of La Casa de Las Madres, an advocacy program for survivors of domestic violence.  In collaboration with the Alameda County Bar Association, Love Thy Lawyer presents an interview with:  Alameda County Bar AssociationThe Alameda County Bar Association (ACBA) is a professional membership association for lawyers and other members of the legal profession. The ACBA provides access to ongoing legal education; and promotes diversity and civil rights in the Alameda County legal community. Our mission is to promote excellence in the legal profession and to facilitate equal access to justice. Louis Goodman www.louisgoodman.com louisgoodman2010@gmail.com 510.582.9090  Special thanks to ACBA staff and members: (https://www.acbanet.org/) Musical theme by Joel Katz, Seaside Recording, Maui Technical support: Bryan Matheson, Skyline Studios, OaklandAudiograms & Transcripts: Paul Roberts    We'd love to hear from you.  Send us an email at louisgoodman2010@gmail.com. Please subscribe and listen. Then tell us who you want to hear and what areas of interest you'd like us to cover.  Please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts.    Louis Goodman www.louisgoodman.comhttps://www.lovethylawyer.com/510.582.9090Music: Joel Katz, Seaside Recording, MauiTech: Bryan Matheson, Skyline Studios, OaklandAudiograms: Paul Robert louis@lovethylawyer.com

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** What was the first Noh play with the demon mask? It's believed the story of Kiyohime was one of the first Noh plays to use the demon, or Hannya mask. Kamu shares what some believe was the first story to use the Demon, or Hannya mask.  Featured Song: "Slow Down", by Sierra Lucia, courtesy of HI*Sessions → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/164-kiyohime Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** Halloween Special 2024 What's the Japanese horned demon mask? The Japanese horned demon mask is known as the Hannya mask, and it is used in Noh theater.  Just when you thought it was safe to take your Halloween masks off, Kamu shares a popular Japanese Exorcism, and Noh theater. Featured Song: "Standby", by Lovejack, courtesy of HI*Sessions → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/163-hannya Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

This episode of Fanachu featured as guest Felix Concepcion Sablan, who at the time of recording, been advocating for more than 15 years on behalf of Chamorus and Pacific Islanders in Southern California. When he appeared on Fanachu, he was serving as a board member for UPAC (Union of Pan Asian Communities) and was also a member of the Mayor of San Diego's Advisory group on Asian Pacific Islanders. In this episode we'll learn more about his work for empowering Pacific Islanders in the diaspora.This episode originally aired on December 14, 2022 and was hosted by Michael Lujan Bevacqua. The audio for this episode was produced by Akli'e' Chan Bevacqua and features the song "Mungga Yu' Ma Fino' Inglesi" by Johnny Sablan. Support the show

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** Special Hawaiian Epic Conclusion After much research, Kamu shares the final segment of our sprawling Hawaiian epic about Hawaii's family of Wind Guardians.  Featured Song: "Kuini (Ku'u Lei Aloha)", by Kalani Pe'a, courtesy of HI*Sessions → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/162-paakaa-7 Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

Liver cancer or hepatocellular cancer is the 6th most common cause of cancer and the 3rd leading cause of cancer deaths worldwide. In the US, liver cancer is the 6th leading cause of death. Common risk factors of liver cancer:•Cirrhosis or liver scarring and it's underlying risk factors (20% of cases of liver cancer form without cirrhosis present, yet in the presence of or more of the below conditions) •Metabolic Dysfunction-Associated Steatotic Liver Disease (formerly, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) of which obesity, diabetes and high cholesterol are risk factors •Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C (transmitted via body fluids, commonly during sex, childbirth (mother to fetus) or with IV drug use) •Alcohol •Smoking •Aflatoxin (a fungus that may grow on grains and nuts improperly store in hot and humid environments) Common symptoms of liver cancer:•None•Abdominal discomfort•Abdominal swelling •Nausea or vomiting•Gastrointestinal bleeding•Weight loss•Loss of appetite •Jaundice (yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes)•Easy bruising or bleeding•Persistent itching•Fatigue•Fever Populations at increased risk for liver cancer:Nationally, the highest rates are seen in Asian/Pacific Islanders and American Indian/Alaskan Natives. Rising rates have been noted in the Latinx population. Globally, rates are actually highest outside the US, in sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia. Liver cancer prevention:•Eat whole food, plant-forward nutrition (fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, whole grains, minimal saturated fat)•Reduce alcohol intake or abstain https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/about-alcohol-use/index.html •Get screened for and vaccinated against hepatitis B (infants, children and adults) https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis-b/index.html*Get screened and treated for hepatitis C (no vaccine currently exists and many patients are without symptoms, which often only occur with advanced disease.) https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis-c/index.html •Practice safer sex with regular condom use (including same gender couples)•Get screened for STDs annually or with every new partnerSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Links: Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics Instagram Hmong Innovating Politics Website   Transcript: Cheryl: Good evening, everyone. You are tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justice groups, the Asian Americans for civil rights and Equality Network– AACRE– leverages the power of its network to focus on longterm movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to the fight for social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups. APEX Express is proud to be apart of the AACRE Network.  Joining us for tonight's show from Yokuts also known as Fresno, california is my special, big hearted friend Shai Chang from Hmong Innovating Politics. Also known as HIP. Shai, do you mind introducing yourself? Who are you, who are your people, and where do you come from?  Shai Chang: Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show. My name is Shai pronouns are they and them. I'm located in Yokuts Valley, currently in Fresno, California. I'm actually working with Hmong Innovating Politics located both in Sacramento and Fresno. I'm in the Fresno. And officially, just recently in October, I got my name title changed to be the Trans and Queer Fresno Community Organizer. So I am so ecstatic to be doing the trans and queer work in the Central Valley, yeah, born and raised in Fresno, Hmong, Southeast Asian, and really, actually I was born in a house. The rest of my siblings were born in the hospital. We were actually, the reason why was because we were trying to go to the hospital and my dad was like, Oh, wait for me, wait for me, wait for me, and couldn't wait any longer. Cheryl: And then you just popped out. You couldn't wait any longer. Did your dad make it in time? Shai Chang: I think my dad made it in time, but only in time for us to come out.  Cheryl: I didn't know that about you, Shai, that you were a home birth. How many siblings do you have?  Shai Chang: I have five other siblings. We were all born one year apart. Honestly, like, growing up, I really loved the idea of, Oh, we're all born one year apart. It's so nice. My siblings were so close. And now I'm looking back, Oh my gosh, my mom. Oh  Cheryl: my gosh. are any of your siblings also trans or queer?  Shai Chang: No, um, one of them is queer, but, the rest of my family is, actually very progressive and a great ally to me. So I've been very privileged and blessed.  Cheryl: Do you think that's a common Hmong queer experience to have supportive and progressive parents?  Shai Chang: so I'm not actually out to my parents or my grandparents or my uncles or some of my aunts. I am out to my siblings and so I think it's very interesting and I'm still grappling along with that as well. I think there is internal work to be done. It's that both I think it's, this is a reality of some things. It's that outside of the community, I'm queer and trans and at home, I'm very much having to play a role. My dad is a shaman and so he does do, they do come from a lot more like traditional values and conservative values. And at the same time, they are progressive on things. I think that they understand racial issues. But not gender issues. So you can wear, for example, I would say like my aunt, she it's like progressive and the most conservative ways, so it's like. Oh yeah, I'm totally okay that you're gay, Shai, but if my kids wore earrings, that's too feminine.   Cheryl: Thanks for sharing that shy. It's sounds like you've had to navigate a lot of different spaces, also expectations.  I'm curious, what was it like growing up queer in Fresno?  Shai Chang: I think that it has really shaped me because I feel like I came into my queerness and my transness so late. I feel like I came into being who and knowing who I am or what I am so late into my life. It wasn't until I was much more exposed into the organizing work over in the Bay Area. And so obviously big props to Lavender Phoenix.  Cheryl: Love them. Shout out Lavender Phoenix.  Shai Chang: And just really seeing so many of the organizers really live and their truth and who they are. And I. And having to also trying to figure out what that means for myself as well. Also knowing that How many other like Hmong trans queer folks are also might be going through the same thing as well. And so there is a definitely a strong sense of unwelcome this or not even unwelcome this, but not the intentional welcome. Right. When we think of radical welcome. From Lavender Phoenix, there is a lack of radical welcomeness within our Hmong community, and so, especially for trans and queer folks, and it wasn't until just this year that there's a in the Hmong community, there's 18 clans, or our last names, and there's an organization over in the Midwest, over in Minnesota, Minneapolis that just then wrote a letter in Hmong talking about the recognition that, Hey we recognize that we have not been intentional in inviting like trans and queer people into our community. So like one, it was super validating and two, that's just like the bare minimum. Okay. They recognize it, but what did they do? Right. Nothing. And so, or, you know, for me I didn't really see much, but also that's so different. Like that, that lived experience over in Minnesota is so different from the lived experiences in California for our Hmong community. And yeah.  Cheryl: Yeah Shine you're bringing up so many things. You're so absolutely right. There is such a different between. Merely tolerating transness and queerness, such as you know, in the story you shared earlier but your aunt and her kid wearing earrings. And then also with the vagueness and The lack of action and accountability in the . Minneapolis letter. Versus the radical, welcoming. Of trans and queer folk, such as, is done in Lavender Phoenix, which. For folks who don't know is also an AACRE group. that organizes is around building trans and queer AAPI power in the bay area. And I also love. That you called in that, of course there are differences in the lived experiences for the Hmong community in Minneapolis. Versus California. Because I also think that that's super true to in the in lived experiences for trans and queer as in the bay, Area. You know, such as, what Lavender Phoenix does. Versus the transness and queerness that is experienced in the central valley, which is of course where a majority of Hmong Americans in California live. Which is also actually a great segue to talk about the amazing work that HIP does and the work that you lead with QHIP, which is for listeners who don't know. Is short for Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride. Do you mind telling us what QHIP is and what led to its fruition. Shai Chang: Yes, thank you so much. Back in 2018, I actually was, that's when Hmong Innovating Politics actually branched out to Fresno. And that's when I was like, Oh, I've heard about you all, like in the organizing work over in Sacramento. I will love to get involved. And literally that weekend that they came in Mytao one of the original organizers for, to, to branch out into Fresno, she actually messaged me, it's Hey, I have this application that's due on Sunday. It's Seeding Change. Can you apply for it? I was like, Yeah, sure, of course. It's Friday. Also, how did you get my number? Ha ha ha ha ha., and so, like, it was just a great She actually got my number through, like, different connections here and there, and then that's how she got my number, and then she contacted me, and she talked Yeah, and so, that's how I got involved with HIP, was through Seeding Change. I've already been trying to organize in the Fresno community around , Hmong and trans and queer issues, and, , Leadership has always, always been a very big issue. Just finding other trans and queer leaders, and I was very lucky, it was such a very strange time that one of my were One of my friends, um, friends now, but then, uh, actually it's like this other random person came into Fresno and was like, Hey, I just got back from, Texas, and I am in Fresno. Like, I was born and raised in Fresno, I moved away, came back, and wanted to organize around trans and queer issues. I was like, no way!  So, on top of that, Mytao, later in the summer, was able to organize to get us, funding, and so we got 3, 000 just to organize for trans and queer issues, and in the next two to three months, um, we got 20 people to start showing up. We met every single week. Wow! And then on top of that, we were hanging out for another two to three hours. So I honestly, we all use obviously like our own personal funding, our own like, like vehicles, transportation, pick it up folks just so that we can meet and really being housed in like HIP's office. And. To really honor HIP, we were also trying to think of our name for our own space because I think it came from actually like being, and I, I really also want to share that like quip, the reason I'm like, why QHIP? Why QHIP? Why not join any of the, like the trans and queer spaces? Let me be very clear about why not join any of the other gay spaces in Fresno? So, and,, Fresno historically has been a very white cis space. male gay space. And so that's really also we want to highlight that. There is like also trans spaces that just came more recently as well, Trans-E-Motion. But before that , we were actually then like, okay, let's go and be a part of these organizing spaces as like our little group, right? And we show up to these spaces and they're asking, what's your name? , who are you all? What's your name? Are you gay little Asian boys?  And so I share the stories. As to, like, how much it speaks volume to the microaggressions, the internal racism that exists, and as well as how much, like, work is done. Like, why we need this space so much, right? When we show up to these spaces, we are not feeling that sense of belonging, that radical welcoming. And so, Yeah, we just started organizing from there and then obviously we were being housed and so HIP was like, okay So do you want to spin off and do your own organizations? Who are you and What's your five year plan and the whole time we're like “What?!” I've never thought about a five year plan, you know, and got, yeah, that's her name. And also Katie Moua, who's working with us as our , program director, you know. And so, we finally actually just this year became a program under HIP. So originally we were like a support group. We were just holding space and we just hit our five year last year and after seeing so much transition and leadership,, we just know that for, sustainability is that we need to make sure that we're holding it somewhere and so HIP was able to hold that program space for us. And so that's just where and where we're at right now.  Cheryl: Thank you so much for sharing the origin storyof QHIP. It's really inspiring to meto hear how organizations come to be? And. All of the community effort and community members that came together, recognizing a need and supported each other through it all. It really shows the power of mutual care and collective organizing. We're going to take a quick music break, but there'll be more on the incredible organizing workbeing done by QHIP for trans and queer Hmong folk in the central valley when we return. Up next. We'll be listening to “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.  Here's “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera.  And we're back. You're listening to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley and also streaming online at kpfa.org. That last track was “GRLGNG” by Rocky Rivera. We're here with Shai chang lead organizer of Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride (QHIP). A program by Hmong Innovating Politics, also known as hip. So far Shai has shared some powerful, personal stories about growing up queer and trans in a more conservative central valley.  And how essential programs like QHIP are for helping trans and queer Hmong Americans. I thrive in such places which are often hard to find. We've learned about how QHIP. Came to be and how it was created by and for the community through effort and also through. I would say great courage. So Shai. Can you tell us a little bit more about the programming that QHIP does? Shai Chang: Thank you so much for asking. A lot of the work that we do is rooted in healing justice. when we first came together, we just knew that. There's so much trauma that we had. Um, so I, I say this because one, we were like, okay, like, should we open it up to, like, other Asian Pacific Islanders? Should we do like a Southeast Asian, queer, trans work? And then, I was like, let's look at the space we're in currently. Who is in here with us? Like, how can we say that we're a lot of the time, it's, I think it's frustrating that it's always like, API, API, right? And there's no other Pacific Islanders in this space. Um, so it's like to say that Hmong people are here and it's okay for us to focus on Hmong communities. On top of that, we have so much particular trauma that if we then invite other folks into the space and they have their own intersectional trauma, how can we also hold space for them when we're also then trying to figure out our own, like. issues. And so, uh, not realizing that these were like rooted in healing justice. We just knew that we just needed space for ourselves and to heal and, and heal in different ways. And so in one of those ways, like, how can we heal and also have fun? And one of the organizers around that has been One of the events we did was Sports Day. Um, I was like, okay, how does Sports Day relate to healing, you know? And it's like, of course it does, right? We know that many times, like, trans and queer folks are not allowed to have fun in sports, are not allowed to be queer enough, like, they're too queer, um, that they're not allowed to be Performing to mask, to fan, and like in queer, like in sports. And so, we know and we recognize that it's so important for us to actually be able to live in these spaces as well. For us to reclaim these opportunities for ourselves. And so, um, It has shown up in many different ways. And so every single, almost every year we, we do something like that together. And so, uh, we did one in Sacramento and they're all like, this is where the BIPOC people have been at. Uh, because there is like a queer and like sports, like, uh, outing that is over there, but it's always like predominantly white, and so when all of the people of color started showing up, I'm like, oh! Uh, and so it's so funny. It's so funny. Like, that we get to actually practice community, care, and love, and intentionality, and really finding space of joy for one another, especially If you want to like play volleyball, hit the ball back into a twerk, you know, like we've seen our Southeast Asian Filipinos, like Cheryl: I love that image of just like this pack of like Hmong queer and trans folk just like rolling up, you know, I just love that image so, so much. And I love that point too. Like what does sports have to do with queer being queer and trans? And it has so much. It starts in those like little things, those little sports outings, being able to hit a volleyball and go into a twerk. That's healing justice. Wow. That is so incredible. You mentioned that when QHIP first started, it was around 20 people. What would you say like the age demographic is? of the people in QHIP.  Shai Chang: So when we first started, no one was over 30.  We had folks from high school, and we had folks, um, in like, uh, like over 18, um, and, uh, no one was over 30. Yeah, so we had a very young group and we can just see how like hip has also adapted into that as well It's not like we have always been really young organizers and so When you were talking about the budding and the seedings like that's what we do We train and we right now we are wanting to bring up and train other trans and queer leaders that really also want to be a part of the space too because One, like, to be very honest and transparent, if I'm gone, Quint is gone. That's what I mean by the sustainability of leadership. Like, I'm the one who's holding this work right now. And because we have just recently expanded over to Sacramento to have Christine also hold that space, like, oh my god, Once I'm gone, it's gone, right? And so  so we actually Went um, we had a booth at the Hmong New Year's. It was a queer and trans booth It's super queer super trans and we were anticipating lots of pushback And so folks we actually just asked like our friends who I mean like I already didn't have like queer friends already And so we asked our friends to just come and be in the booth with us, come organize with us, and then words kind of spread out around that, like, oh, there's this thing, they're doing this thing, and so folks came and volunteered. And I need to share this story because, like, we were all anticipating people to come to our booth and push back. Um, we've, there's like Christian monk folks there have come and done push back in the past, but there has never been like a trans and queer booth. Like a Hmong trans queer booth and so folks, we have like a photo booth in the back and the way that you can take brief pictures is that you just signed the board that I support Hmong LBTQ and really there was so much overwhelming love and support for us that many of the times like our own like folks, our own trans and queer folks, they had to take a pause and like, yeah, Actually, I need to take a break, right? I think this overwhelming sense of love and care from community and so this is where it grew and this is where and how we grew and also knowing at the same time that like there's so much multiple layers in this conversation, I'm sorry. Um, so it's like One, there is so many overwhelming support, yes, and that's how many people came and started to know about us and started organizing along with us. And the other piece and part of it too is that right now and where I'm at now is that I'm trying to organize for trans and queer spaces for Hmong folks, and I'm really trying to invite community to come and be part of us, and at the same time, not seeing folks show up. Um, and so like when we had our organizing program, our 7, 8, 9 month long organizing program, first time this year, opening it up for like, community to apply and be part of, like, 4 folks applied, and they were all allies, um, and so I, yeah, I didn't want to take that away from them as well, and so these are the people that applied, and these are the people that like, I will be working with, right? And so when we went to the Pride Parade, and other, like, trans and queer Hmong folks showed up, and they're like, Oh, is this an organizing program? And I was like, Yeah, it is! And they're like, Oh, I should've applied! And I was like, Yeah, you should've! And so, We, Christina and I, we really had to sit in with that, and it's like, why is that? Why is that, like, a really challenging place? Um, and we really lean in back into that, like, in the Hmong community, there is such a lack of welcomeness. There is such a lack of belongingness, like, many times in the Fresno, and this is just, like, trans queer people in general, in the Central Valley, is that For you to be trans and queer, it's for you to move away from home. Um, go to the Bay Area, go to L. A. And so, um, in our name, Queer Hmong Intersectional Pride, Intersectional from Kimberly Crenshaw, is really where we are highlighting that you can be queer and you can be Hmong. And Many of the times it's so hard for us to show up in like our own community because there's like so much layers of like anti blackness, like patriarchy, uh, lots of gender justice that needs to be done, transformative and healing justice that needs to be done and I appreciate Lambda Phoenix for being so bold and I'm also sitting over here. It's like how can I be bold and I think about, like, for us, like, we were already ostracized by our own community, some, many of the times, like, unwelcomed, and for us to then fight to be in our own community, it's such a big fight already, and then, like, folks would then welcome us, and then, okay, let's talk about police brutality. Right? How much of that would then also, um, be welcomed as well? And so really to be trans and queer is for us to be anti imperialist, anti capitalist, you know, anti, um, anti racism, right? And so Yeah, so like that's that's just so the realm that we're like like Hmong and trans queer folks are living in and so our next steps for our quip is for really us to build our sense of belonging. We're going to be launching our campaign Love is Love or Luya Lu um to really highlight um that that piece of belongingness within our Hmong and transqueer community that we do need to find a sense of belonging, that we don't need to be part of like our Hmong community to really find community, that we can have our own community and still be part Hmong and still be transqueer. Cheryl: I love that so much,, the I in quip intersectional is you can be queer and mom. And I think that is so brilliant. And I wonder the whole that also that piece you shared about how a lot of, you know, queer and trans, trans People of the Central Valley leave to go to larger cities, more liberal quote unquote spaces. I wonder, too, if that's part of the reason why there was low signups for your organizing program, because so much of the trans and queer among folk that are in quip are all really young and are still reliant on living in the same household as their family. Shai Chang: Yeah, thank you so much for highlighting that. Yes, that is so, so, so true. Um, I also really want to highlight that it's so hard on our femme and women folk, our transqueer femme and women folk, um, because in our experiences as a young person for them, they were the babysitters. Um, they were the caregiver and the caretaker of their family. And so many of the times it's that, you know, They could not join us in these particular spaces because they constantly had to ask for permission from their family just to be with us. Um, so, can I go? I was like, oh no, I need you to watch the house, or watch the babies, watch, watch your siblings. Um, I need you to take care of this, or X, Y, and Z, and so. It's a lot of, like, it's a lot of the patriarchy coming up in this multi layer, like, this multi layer level of oppression, multi layer level of, like, Experiences that Hmong and transqueer, , women and femme folks go through. And so really wanting to highlight that. Cheryl: So, of course, like I'm hearing the family dynamics, the patriarchy. What do you think are the other struggles that queer and trans Hmong youth currently face in Central California? Shai Chang: you know, the Central Valley is very poor., and so, lot of trans folks actually have a hard time in transition. There's only like one doctor that comes once in a long while that like really does affirmative care. And so we're trying to grow our affirmative care resource and our doctors list. And so now I think we've probably grown I think maybe like two or three in the Citra Valley. And I mean Central Valley from like Stockton to like Bakersfield, like there is no, like, it's hard to find affirmative care. And many of the times folks are, if they're wanting like gender affirming care, they have to go into the bigger cities. And so there has been in the past transportation. So obviously when we're doing like, it's, you know, Affirmative care surgery. It's a very, very big thing. And so transportation on top of like housing for rest is a very big thing as well. And so there was funding that folks have been organized to do transportation as well as housing to take care of them. What does what does aftercare look like? And so I think there's like those kind of layers like racism, Obviously, transphobia, , homophobia, and I think it just speaks to a lot, you know, about like the, there's like a lot of, and there is gender based violence in our community, quite a bit, right? When you think about patriarchy, of course, it's attached. I think in the media of the times, community needs to also see that patriarchy also impacts, patriarchy impacts all genders. Right. , it forces more, males and men to be more masculine, really pushing them away from what it means for them to actually have, like, quote unquote feelings, or being feminine, or, um, there's a lot of big drinking problem in our Hmong community as well, and so, there's lots of, like, over drinking and binge drinking, and so, yeah, there's also deeply rooted issues that are also, uh, showing up in the community as well. Cheryl: Wow, there's a lot. And it sounds like there's so much infrastructure and resources that are still, that still need to be developed. Central California is still developing their resources for trans and queer, especially trans and queer Hmong folk. My question then, Shai, because you, because I do agree, like if the moment you leave, QHIP is gone. How are you dealing? Because this is a lot of work. How do you deal with all of this responsibility? Shai Chang: I lean into hip. I have to. Um, to be very honest, I had a really hard time. I think last year, um, we had a really hard time when I was just like, I feel so alone. I went to this like conference. This was called creating change. It's their national, like LBGTQ conference and over in San Francisco and like February, July and went to that conference and then came back home. I was like the only trans, you know, I was the only person on the train back home. Right? And so it feels so isolating. It feels so alone sometimes. And I brought this up to HIP and we all just cried and we're like, This is not okay, right? And so that's when we started to see what programming for quip actually looks like and recognizing that something needs to happen. We need to build more. And so I also really want to highlight that it takes time and it takes It takes time and commitment to want to build with people. Um, and we were able to really build space for our trans and queer community here because we were so committed to wanting to build something here. Um, and so it is very alone, like, and also it's really to recognize that we are not alone. Um, I think Lambda Phoenix has done such a great job in really being able to model what that means and what that looks like. And literally asking for help. Um, it's not to say that I'm not good at delegating. It's not to say I'm not good at delegating. I'm just really bad at breaking down, like, these roles and responsibilities for me to then Invite other folks in to also to support me to help, you know, to make the movement go and grow together. And we're so used to doing this work alone. I'm so used to doing this work alone that I feel like I have to do everything together. I have to be the creative artist, the social media campaign manager. The comms manager, coalition building, I, I feel like I have to be then like the, the organizer, the program manager, the development, the HR, um, the supervisor, and, and at the same time as a, you know, not as a young person anymore, but like young enough still 29, is that I'm still also learning what organizing is and what organizing means. And so, um, it means all of us. It needs all of us. Cheryl: That's actually such an important dimension too, because as , you're all developing this in the works, you're also learning along the way. , I guess maybe to end our conversation. I want to know, because you bring up the welcomeness, the radical welcomeness you've learned from Lavender Phoenix and how Revolutionary that has been in your praxis of trans and queer organizing for Hmong folk. What does radical welcoming look like for you for quip moving forward in the next couple of years? What would you want it to look like? Shai Chang: What it will look like for quip is that Um, next year we're going to be launching a campaign and then continuing the Love is Love or Lu is Lu Ya Lu campaign and really highlighting the sense of belonging that needs to be built up in our Hmong community. Um, as much as we're fighting for trans justice, racial justice, and gender justice, and trans queer justice, and like, those are like the big words, and all of those things, and what does that mean? And it starts at the small, it starts at the small, like, if we don't even feel that sense of belonging within our own community, if we don't even feel that sense of belonging within our own selves, small like the sports day, it's not going to actually build in that piece of justice in the long term. And so it's so important that, um, we build in that radical welcomeness through all layers. And it can look very different. It doesn't have to be like, Oh, welcome. Verbatim welcome. This means that we are doing it every single time at every single point, at every single way. It looks like having dinners. Um, it looks like having fun. It looks like karaoke. It looks like listening to each other's story, passion mic, open mic nights, poetry slams, and sports days, and Really going out to vote together. It really looks and shines in all the different ways and really being in coalition with one another is how we're going to get there and build there. And so, yeah,  Cheryl: that was the perfect answer, Adrian Murray Brown writes about this all the time. Small is all. Radical welcoming in all areas of this work. I think that's just so beautiful.  We are actually going to take another music break. But learn how to plug into quips work when we get back. So don't go anywhere.  Up next is taking names by Rocky Ibarra. And we're back. You are tuned in to apex express on 94.1 KPFA and 89.3. KPMB in Berkeley and online@kpfa.work. You were just listening to you taking names by Rocky Berra. Before we close off the show shy. Do you mind letting our listeners know how they can stay in touch with Quip and learn about all of your upcoming programming? Shai Chang: Yeah, I would say follow us on our social media, Facebook and Instagram. That's a great place to begin, um, and continue to share and highlight us. , we are trying to post more. And you can follow us at qhip. ca at qhip. ca or quip. california. ca. Yeah, um, I think that's a great place to begin and then you all always can message me there. Um, yes.  Cheryl: Thank you shy. All of those links to equip socials we'll be linked in our show notes. And so before we close off for the night, do you have any last words, you'd like to share to any trans. Queer, mung folk who might be listening right now.  Shai Chang: Yes. Um, lean into your leadership. Lean into it. I know that you're so scared of, like, wanting to be in a leader because it feels like there's so much responsibility that comes with it. And know that you are not alone. In it. You are not alone in this leadership. You are never alone. There's so much people who have paved the way and so much people who are still here with us today. And so, I am here and we can learn and lean into each other and really actually create spaces of love. Like, how do we lean into love and not into our leadership? Right? And so, you don't have to feel like you are leaning into your leadership alone. But leaning into community and leaning into love. Cheryl: Thanks, everyone. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – October 24, 2024 – Trans & Queer Hmong Rise: Organizing in Central California appeared first on KPFA.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Return is the theme for APEX Express as Host Miko Lee talks with artists from  APAture, Kearny Street Workshops annual celebration of emerging artists from the Bay Area. Miko also speaks with exiled Hong Kong activist Nathan Law about the new documentary film “Who's Afraid of Nathan Law.” Special Thanks to Jose Ng for insight into the Hong Kong movement for democracy. For more information about the subjects in tonight's show: APAture, KSW – October 13 to November 9th venues throughout the Bay Area Jalena Keane-Lee and her film: Standing Above the Clouds playing October 12 Mill Valley Film Festival October 22 Roxie Cinema – APAture Ian Santillano playing October 13, DNA Lounge – APAture Kim Requesto performing November 3, Joe Goode Anex – APAture Who's Afraid of Nathan Law playing on POV   Return Show Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:38] Welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host Miko Lee and tonight our subject is return, which is the theme of the 25th annual APAture Kearny Street Workshop Annual Festival. It's running October 13th through November 9th, and there's going to be six showcases in venues across San Francisco. We're going to put a link in our show notes at kpfa.com backslash program apex. We're going to hear from three of the featured artists; filmmaker, Jalena Keane-Lee, dancer, Kim Requesto, and musician, Ian Santillano. Then we speak with someone who cannot return to his Homeland, exiled Hong Kong activist, Nathan Law. First off, we're going to check in with my usual co-host as PowerLeeGirls and my always daughter, filmmaker Jalena Keane-Lee. Good evening and welcome to Apex Express. Tonight On Apex Express, we're talking with my daughter, Jalena Keane-Lee, and usual co host, but tonight we're going to be talking with Jalena as a filmmaker. Welcome, Jalena, to Apex Express as a guest.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:01:48] Thank you so much for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:01:50] And I would like to talk with you about APAture, Kearny Street Workshop's annual festival. This year, you're one of several artists that are getting a showcase. The theme for this year is around Return. Can you tell us what return means to you and what you will be presenting at APAture?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:02:11] Yes, so the theme for Kearny Street Workshop's APAture festival this year is Return and I am the featured artist for the film showcase, which is such an honor and I'm really excited about that. And I've screened previous work there in the past—short films, but it was really yeah, such an honor and privilege to be asked to be the featured artist this year. And I'll be playing my first feature documentary, which is called Standing Above the Clouds. And it follows native Hawai'ian mother-daughter activists that are standing to protect their sacred mountain called Mauna Kea from the building of a massive 30 meter telescope. And the film chronicles intergenerational healing and how to build and sustain a movement. And so I hope people come to see it and it will also be playing with a series of short films from other Asian American and Pacific Islander filmmakers. And the film showcase is October 22nd at 6 PM at the Roxy Theater in the Mission. To me, the theme of return, it's, it reminds me a lot of, I think last year's theme too, which I think was homecoming. And just thinking about, you know, returning to yourself, returning to your ancestors, returning to your sacred land. Standing Above the Clouds is all about the movement to protect Mauna Kea, which is one of the most sacred places in all of Oceania. And the highest peak in the world from the seafloor. And the summit of the mountain stands at 14,000 feet and it's also tied to Native Hawai'ian genealogy and seen as the ancestor of the people. And so the film is really all about that place that you want to return to, that place that represents, you know, home and spirituality and is an anchor and a training ground and a teacher and a leader and so many other things that, you know, our sacred places are and that they teach us. And really about, you know, protecting that space and making sure that that's a place that future generations will be able to return to. And also reflecting and processing all the ways and all the times that you have returned there and what that has taught you and brought into your life.   Miko Lee: [00:04:26] So this festival runs for multiple weeks. It actually is at the Roxy and at DNA Lounge and at the Joe Goode Annex and at Arc Gallery and Studios. We're also in the show featuring Kim Requesto, who is one of the performing artists that's featured, and then music by, the musical guest, which is Ian Santillano. And Jalena, tell me about, are you getting a chance to communicate with all the other artists and to be able to work with the other artists that are part of this festival?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:04:58] It's the 25th year of the APAture Festival and there's a lot of really cool events for artists. I know they had a kind of orientation event and they had headshot opportunity to like get your headshot taken there. I unfortunately was out of town, so I was not able to make it and have that opportunity to mix and mingle with the other artists. But I'm excited to go to some of the events, as they happen. And there's a bunch of different showcases for, like, each different discipline. Mine is film, and then there's visual arts, music, performing arts, I believe.   Miko Lee: [00:05:33] Were you at Kearny Street Workshop last year as well? You were part of APAture last year as well.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:05:38] Yes, I was.   Miko Lee: [00:05:40] How many years have you participated?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:05:43] I think I've participated three years, but yeah, as I said before, this is my first time being a featured artist, so that's very special. And I know it's the 25th year of the APAture Arts Showcase, and that it's the oldest running Asian American arts showcase in the US.   Miko Lee: [00:06:03] And if folks aren't able to make this amazing APAture event, where else can they see your film Standing Above the Clouds?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:06:10] My film will also be available through the Mill Valley Film Festival on October 12th, and it's going to play at the San Rafael Film Center at 3pm on the 12th, and then I'll also be leading a workshop on October 19th. It's a teen documentary filmmaking and activism workshop, which should be really fun. And that's with SF Film, and we'll be at their location, Filmhouse, on, yeah, October 19th. And we should be having more screenings coming up, so if you're interested in, you know, following along with the film, you can find us at Standing Above the Clouds on Instagram and Facebook, and standingabovetheclouds.com. And we'll post our screenings and different opportunities. You can also request a screening for your organization or group or school. And we'll be implementing our screening tour and impact plans in the next few years as well. And you can follow me at Jalena.KL on Instagram and other platforms as well and I post about it too. And you can also follow at Protect Mauna Kea, if you want to keep up to date with the movement to protect Mauna Kea. And there is a petition, a change.org petition to sign to push for the stopping of the telescope, which is currently still trying to be built, even though there has been over a decade of indigenous resistance and resistance that we see as successful because they have been able to stall the telescope up until this point. But yes, there's a change.org petition that you can sign that is @protectmaunakea and also @standingabovetheclouds in both of their linkinbios.   Miko Lee: [00:07:46] Thank you. And we'll put links to all of those in the show notes for Apex Express. So I know that you've been touring with the film to different cities and indeed different countries. And I'm wondering if you have felt a different reception based on the places you've been to from Toronto to Seattle to Los Angeles. What has been, what has stood out to you as you've toured this film to different locations?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:08:06] Yeah, it's been such a blessing to be able to bring the film across the world. And I think we're really excited to we're bringing the film home to Hawai'i with the Hawai'i International Film Festival, and then also home to the Bay Area with APAture and Mill Valley. So it's really nice to have this, you know, homecoming and return, so to speak, to the places where, you know, the film is from. And touring it around, I think it's been really beautiful just seeing all the like resonance and the connections across other lines of difference with different activists, different local activists, whether it is in Toronto, or Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, or Seattle, And one thing that has been a really beautiful reflection from audiences is that the film is a representation of hope and that, you know, it's a realistic portrait of organizing and movement building, which certainly is not, you know, always glamorous or easy, but one that shows the beauty of the struggle and the beauty of being in community and pushing towards something and how being in movement spaces, you know, can shape and heal and revive different parts of who you are.   Miko Lee: [00:09:16] Can you talk a little bit about what healing means to you in relationship with social justice work?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:09:22] Standing Above the Clouds, it is about, you know, healing. And Havane, who's one of the main protagonists of the film, she has a really great line in the film, that is we don't just have to heal from this work, we heal through it too. And I think that speaks a lot to what it means to heal in movement spaces and part of the intergenerational healing that we show in the film is, you know, our, our parents generation, and this kind of older generation of women who really paved the way, and who didn't have the opportunity to really take breaks or care for themselves and their own bodies, oftentimes, and there just wasn't really any other option or it wasn't really a choice. And in the film we can see passing down to the next generation and wanting people to be able to have the opportunity to care for themselves and to, you know, have boundaries around their time and their energy and show up in these spaces when they feel completely ready and that being something that the kind of mother generation wants to pass down to the younger generation and also something that the younger generation is able to point out. In the older generation and see for themselves and I think that really plays into movement sustainability and healing is such an important part of creating movements that can be sustainable and that won't just burn people out and then kind of, you know, fizzle and fall away. So making sure that we have the space to heal and in all the different ways, like through tears, through laughter, through joy. I think is such an important part and also letting movements and work for social justice heal us and have, you know, a positive impact on us and teach us about ourselves.   Miko Lee: [00:11:19] Thank you for sharing that. I just finished reading the amazing Healing Justice Lineages book by Erica Woodard and Cara Page, and you and I just went to see Cara's exhibit about the impact of the medical industrial complex. And one of the things both Cara and Erica talk about in the book is ancestral technologies and the impact that ancestral technologies can have on healing us and the next generation. And I resonated with that so much being the mother age obviously of you, but also of the women in Standing Above the Clouds. And I'm wondering if you have thoughts on ancestral technologies that you grew up with, or that you felt like you learned from being involved with this filmmaking process for so long.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:12:08] That's a really, ooh that's such an interesting point. I think in the film, the ancestral technology that comes to mind immediately is oli or chanting, and that is like, you know, an ancient Hawai'ian way of recording knowledge and passing down information and also praying. And, in the film, it's talked about in a few different places, how that is an ancient technology and how we only know the things that we know today, because someone passed it down orally as an oli or as a chant. And a really, a really beautiful thing about the process of making the film was being able to, to witness that and also to learn oli myself, and also to learn that Havane and Auntie Pua, who are two of the main protagonists in the film, they both write a lot of oli too. So it's an ancestral technology that's still very much alive and breathing in the present day. And I think that's so beautiful and that yeah, I hope with, you know, all of our different ancestral technologies that we access and learn about at different times that we also can see them as things that are like ever changing and kept current in the present.   Miko Lee: [00:13:29] And what would you like people to walk away with after seeing Standing Above the Clouds?   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:13:34] I want people to walk away feeling and believing that collective liberation is possible. And that the worlds that we want to create that are centered on care, that don't discriminate based on, you know, any lines of difference, are possible. And it's our responsibility to enact those worlds and protect the things that are sacred to us and important to us. And I want people to walk away thinking about, you know, their own mom and thinking about the importance of sisterhood and community. And I want people to walk away wanting to call their best friend or their mom or reconnect with someone and talk about how it made them feel and what they want to do and what they want to stand for in their own communities. Yeah, I also want people to walk away, you know, fired up about protecting Mauna Kea and other sacred places and signing the petition to stop the 30 meter telescope, which we'll link in the show notes.   Miko Lee: [00:14:44] Thank you so much for joining us.   Next up, listen to APAture feature musician, Ian Santillano. Ian is a Filipino American singer songwriter multi-instrumentalist and producer from Hayward, California. So check out his song, “End of the Earf.”   MUSIC   That was APAture featured musician Ian Santillano with “End of the Earf.”  Now let's check in with dancer Kim Requesto. Kim, welcome to Apex Express.   Kim Requesto: [00:18:12] Hi Miko, thank you so much for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:18:20] I'm starting first with my question I love asking all people: Kim, tell me about who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Kim Requesto: [00:18:26] I was born in the Philippines and I immigrated to the US when I was three years old, but my entire life has been in the Bay Area. A lot of it has been informed by my family and what we've brought over from the Philippines, and that is a lot of dance and specifically Philippine folk dance, because both of my parents were actually dancers. I continue to share Philippine folkloric dance. And I've gotten deeper into that practice by doing research with different indigenous communities in the Philippines. My legacy, I feel, has expanded beyond just the stories of my family and the stories that I come from, but also, the dances and music and culture of the different indigenous communities that I've created connections and relationships with in the Philippines. And then of course, how I've been able to share that with the community here in the Bay Area, and also in the diaspora.   Miko Lee: [00:19:32] Thank you. Kim, you're a multidisciplinary artist. I know you do dance and photography and music and sharing this cultural traditions. Can you tell us a little bit about what you'll be sharing during APAture?   Kim Requesto: [00:19:45] Yes, of course. So what I hope to share during APAture is more of my performance work. Showcasing movement that I've learned while doing research in the Philippines and honing in on Philippine dance and the various traditional dance styles from the different communities in the Philippines. But also, a lot of my work is also involving my experience as someone who's grown up in the Bay area. The work that I'm presenting is really around my experience as a Filipinx American and sharing that through movement that is not just traditional, not necessarily contemporary, but a mixture and a fusion of both. I also do hope to share specifically traditional movement, just because to honor the people I've worked with in the Philippines they requested, you know, before people see this fusion part, it's important that they know what the traditional part looks like as well. I'm really excited to share dance and also some music and I'm part of the Performing Diaspora residency at CounterPulse so I'll be previewing a small work in progress that'll be showcased in December. But I'm really looking forward to just sharing movement with others, and also sharing the stage with the other artists who's part of the festival.   Miko Lee: [00:21:09] I love that. I used to study traditional Japanese noh and kyogen, and I remember one of the things that the elders used to talk about is you're not allowed to derivate from the form until you have the traditional forms down absolutely and understand what they are in your bones. And I feel like that's what your elders are saying, too. Showcase the traditional work so that the fusion work makes sense to other folks.   Kim Requesto: [00:21:34] Mhmm. And it's also, I think, just to honor the cultures back in the Philippines, just to honor them as well.  Because within, in my work, I do feel that it's important that there's a way for me to also uplift what they've taught me and then not just like what I've been doing. [Laughs] So yeah, I guess similar to, to what your elders said too, or I guess in this sense, both of our elders.   Miko Lee: [00:22:02] Yeah, I'm wondering how this fits with the theme of APAture this year, which is Return. Kearny Street Workshop says, from the Palestinian right to return, the call for the indigenous land back movement, the various migrant histories and struggles for justice in our Pacific Islander and Asian communities, and the returns we face in our personal lives. So what does return mean to you? And how is this going to showcase in the work that you're presenting?   Kim Requesto: [00:22:28] For myself, returning means finding our truth. At least to me in this present day and age [laughs] of my life, it's really finding that truth or finding our truth and being able to also share and connect with others. The theme of returning also is being able to connect and understand, not just the histories that we've experienced, but also the histories that our bodies have experienced. I guess the way we'll be seeing it in what I'm going to be sharing with everyone is really looking through the lens of movement and how I fuse my experiences as someone who is Filipino, but also who is positioned here in the Bay Area. And being able to also find my truth in that movement, because even though a lot of the movement I'll be showcasing is from the southern part of the Philippines, I'm sharing it here in the Bay Area. And also to fuse it with my experience as someone who has grown up in San Francisco. There's a different positionalities in that. My movement is also different. I think in that idea of fusion and in the idea of also learning traditional movement, but also understanding my positionality and my body and my identity and fusing that together. It's the idea of finding, going back to finding my truth and you know, for me, it's like finding that in movement.   Miko Lee: [00:24:01] Thank you so much. My last question is, what are you reading, watching, or listening to? Is there something that is sparking your imagination right now?   Kim Requesto: [00:24:11] What I'm listening to, it's a lot of like melodic, soft, instrumental music. I'm back at a period of wanting to listen to jazz or to even like classical music. And it's just been helping me breathe and I think breathing, being able to find rest, being able to find like calm. Especially since I think for my personal life, I'm getting busy. Being able to rest gives me a lot of like opportunity to be creative after I've rested. So yeah. I think listening to music that makes me happy has been really great for me finding calmness and happiness. If I had to name an artist, it would be Olivia Dean grooves. Yes.   Miko Lee: [00:25:01] Thank you. Is there anything else you'd like to add?   Kim Requesto: [00:25:04] I'm just really looking forward to APAture this year and seeing everything from all the different artists and disciplines. I think having a space in APAture with Kearny Street Workshop and just being able to continue to share art with, like, the community. The greater Bay Area community is such a privilege because it really does feel like a place where people can connect with other artists and also audience members, and I'm just really thankful to APAture and to KSW and also just thank you, Miko, for talking with me.   Miko Lee: [00:25:37] Thanks so much. I look forward to seeing your work at APAture this year. Thanks, Kim.   Kim Requesto: [00:25:42] Thanks, Miko.   Miko Lee: [00:25:43] You're listening to apex express on 94.1, KPFA Berkeley, 89.3, KPF B in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Once again, we hear from APAture featured musician Ian Ian Santillano with “Movin' Nowhere.”   MUSIC   That was APAture featured musician Ian Santillano with “Movin' Nowhere.” Finally tonight, I speak with the person who is unable to return to his Homeland, Hong Kong activist, Nathan Law. And I also speak with filmmaker Joe Piscatella. Nathan Law was one of the student leaders during the 79 day Umbrella Movement in 2014. He is also the founder and former chair of Demosisto a new political party derived from the 2014 protests. And now he is an exile in London. I speak with both Nathan Law and documentary filmmaker, Joe Piscatella. Today we're speaking about the documentary film Who's Afraid of Nathan Law, and I'm so thrilled that we have with us both the filmmaker and Nathan Law himself. So Nathan, I want to start with you. First off, this is a question I ask many guests. Can you please tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Nathan Law: [00:31:26] Yeah, thank you so much for the invitation, Miko. This movie is about the struggle of Hong Kong's democratic movement. As we all know, there's been decades of the Hong Kong democratic movement, in which we fight for the right to elect our leaders and universal suffrage. And this is deeply embedded into our culture because we often see Hong Kong as somewhere the East meets the West. The East is of course, the Chinese heritage, our culture, our languages. But, the Western part is that there's a big part of it that's about freedom, liberty, and the democratic way of life. So, the fight for democracy in Hong Kong has been deeply ingrained in our culture and becomes essential part of who we are. So this movie is about my story, but it's also a reflection of the way of life of Hong Kong people and what are the struggles and difficulties that they've been through and how the city of Hong Kong is being demolished by the authoritarian regime, Chinese Communist Party.   Miko Lee: [00:32:29] Nathan thanks so much. I love that you gave a little blip about what the film is about, which is powerful. I was lucky to have a chance to be able to see it, but Nathan, I'm wondering about you personally, who are your people and for you, what do you carry? Like, what's your earliest memory of social justice?   Nathan Law: [00:32:47] For me, I grew up in Hong Kong, but I was born in mainland China. So I moved to Hong Kong when I was six. I lived in the most blue collar neighborhood. I lived in public housing. My father was a construction worker and my mother was a cleaner. So when I grew up, I was not taught about social justice or democracy. My parents had the mentality that I call refugee mentality, which they only want their kids to get into a good school and get a good job and don't rock the boat. So I've not been encouraged to do anything that I'm currently doing. But, in my high school, I had a political enlightenment moment, which inspired me to get into the arena of activism in college. So when I was in high school, I learned about Liu Xiaobo the Chinese human rights activist who got the Nobel Peace Prize in 2010, and the stories of Tiananmen Massacre, which was a tragedy in 1989 when there were so many workers and students, they fought for China's democracy, and then they were brutally massacred, and there were hundreds to thousands of people died because of the crackdown. So all these moments make me feel like, as a college student and as a half intellectual, I had responsibility to engage in social affairs and be involved in social activism. So that was the start of my story and the people, my people, certainly people of Hong Kong and those people who have the pursuit of freedom and democracy.   Miko Lee: [00:34:33] Thanks, Nathan. And filmmaker Joe Piscatella, can you tell us how you got the first inspiration to create this documentary around the Umbrella Movement and around Nathan?   Joe Piscatella: [00:34:44] Sure. So, in 2017 my team and I made a film prior to this called Joshua: Teenager vs. Superpower and that film documents the rise of Joshua Wong in the national education movement and then through the Umbrella movement and that film won Sundance in 2017 and is still currently on Netflix. And when we were looking to do our next film we realized one, the story of Hong Kong was, was continuing. There was more story to tell as the 2019 anti extradition protests were happening, and we wanted to be able to tell that story until the next chapter. And we also were so impressed. When we were making the Joshua Wong film, we were so impressed with Nathan. We were moved by his story, we were moved by his passion, we were all inspired by what he was doing. And we realized, hey, Nathan has a phenomenal story to tell in his own right. Let's tell the story of Hong Kong through the lens of Nathan Law.   Miko Lee: [00:35:48] Thank you. And Nathan, what was the decision making factor that you decided to go along with being part of this documentary film?   Nathan Law: [00:35:58] First of all, Joe and I and the other film crew, we had a connection when the Joshua Wong documentary, uh, was being produced. So I had already had the opportunity to work with them. I think, for the team, they're not only just producing, like, a documentary, But they genuinely do care about human rights and the story of Hong Kong and the struggles. So I think that gave a huge confidence to me and my fellow Hong Kong activists that they're definitely going to tell a story that make more people to understand what we are struggling and the fight for democracy. So I think this is a great collaboration and I think this documentary encapsulates past 10 years of my life and pretty much, the struggles to democracy and I think that that has a lot of reflection on it, but also like a lot of Hong Kong people would echo what was being covered in the documentary, because my life is pretty much also the lives of many other Hong Kong people being through all these big times, democratic struggles and ending up needing to leave their hometown and to resettle in somewhere else.   Miko Lee: [00:37:14] Thank you. It's really enlightening, especially for someone like me who is fifth generation Chinese American, does not speak Chinese, and it's very hard to actually get any kind of, you know, quote unquote, accurate information about what's happening in Hong Kong and the activist movement. How would you suggest people get accurate news of what's happening in Hong Kong?   Nathan Law: [00:37:37] For now, it's extremely difficult because the press freedom in Hong Kong is being squashed. There have been a multiple actions taken by the government that they disbanded, the most free and crowd sourced and critical news outlets to the Chinese regime. And for now, most of the media in Hong Kong have to follow the orders of the government and only express certain point of view that do not upset Beijing. So we don't have much room, but still we have some very small independent media that they can still operate with a very limited resources, for example, Hong Kong Free Press. This is one channel that we can get more impartial news. But at the end of the day, there has been a vacuum of independent journalism, and that is in, like, intentionally made by the government because the government doesn't want information to be circulated. They want to control the narratives and the information that people know. And by controlling it, they can effectively push forward the propaganda. So that is a predicament of Hong Kong people. And we do want more genuine independent journalism, but the reality of Hong Kong doesn't allow.   Miko Lee: [00:39:04] And Joe, how is this film being released in Asia? What's the reception to this film in Asia?   Joe Piscatella: [00:39:12] The film has not been released yet in Asia. it is about to, it actually premieres tonight, on PBS, on, POV on PBS, and then it'll stream at pbs.org/POV for the foreseeable future. So I have not gotten what the reaction is yet in Asia to this film.   Miko Lee: [00:39:33] Okay, we'll have to wait and see. It is exciting that people can have easy access to be able to see the film on public broadcasting, at least in the United States, and we'll wait and see what happens in Asia. Nathan, you are now, with Political Asylum living in London, and I'm wondering how you practice activism there in Hong Kong when you are living in London.   Nathan Law: [00:39:56] When the political crackdown in Hong Kong took place. The activism in the diaspora community becomes much more important because we can say something that you cannot say in Hong Kong and we can raise awareness by interacting with foreign government officials and international NGOs. If you do it in Hong Kong under the restriction of the national security law now, by meeting, for example, a congressman in the US, you can easily be incarcerated and be sentenced to years of imprisonment in Hong Kong. That is how strict the political sentiment there. And also if you speak about critical things towards the government or express supportive statement to the 2019, protest, you will also be targeted, sentenced, and maybe ended up in months or years in the prison. So we've had all these court cases where people only do peaceful advocacy work without inciting violence or committing violence, but they are being thrown to jail because of speech. And it's common to have speech crime in Hong Kong. So the diaspora community shoulders certain responsibility to speak out all those demands and, and the push for Hong Kong and China's democracy. So for me, in London, there's been a growing population of Hong Kong people because of the fact that people voted with their feet, there has been a exodus of Hong Kong people for now that's already been more than 200,000 of them that have come to the UK because of the worsening liberty situation in Hong Kong. And with that many amounts of people we have a lot of community and cultural events. One of the biggest goal is to preserve the story and the history and the identity of Hong Kong people, which is being erased in Hong Kong actively by the government.   Miko Lee: [00:42:02] And what's going on with the Umbrella Movement now? Like I said, it's very hard for us outside of your film to get information about what is happening right now. Can you give us an update?   Nathan Law: [00:42:14] Yeah, the Umbrella Movement was the occupation movement 10 years ago in pursuit for democracy. It's been 10 years, but I think its legacy is still impacting Hong Kong. It's the very first civil disobedience movement in a massive scale in Hong Kong. There were hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong people camping in the BCS runway in order to fight for a free and democratic society. Fast forward five years ago, there was a big, anti extradition law protest in Hong Kong in 2019 to 2020. It was the latest big uprising of Hong Kong people where you encounter much more ferocious and militant protests. And of course, it triggered a series of response from the government, which includes the implementation of the national security law, which in effect curtailed the city's freedom and civil society. So, it's been 10 years. We had more optimistic outlook of Hong Kong 10 years ago. But for now, the situation in Hong Kong is really bad, as I mentioned. Speech crime is in place, civil liberties and individual freedoms are being heavily restricted, civil society is disbanded. Some of the interviewees in the documentary, including my dearest friend, Joshua Wong, and Gwyneth Ho, they are now being in jail for more than three and a half years just because of joining a primary election, which is the thing that all democratic countries do, but in Hong Kong, it becomes a crime. And they are expecting to be sentenced, at the end of this year, to up to five to ten years of imprisonment just because they do, they do the exact same thing that other politicians in democratic countries do. So this is a really sad reality that we've put up so much effort, so much sacrifices to the democratic movement, but for now, as the Chinese regime is just so powerful. So it's difficult for us to get some progress in our democracy.   Miko Lee: [00:44:32] Is there anything that folks over here that believe and want to support the movement? Is there anything that we can do to help support the folks that are incarcerated or support the movement?   Nathan Law: [00:44:44] First of all, attention and support is really important. So by spreading words of the theme or the current situation of Hong Kong, it helps a lot. And of course we need more representative in the hill to push over Hong Kong agenda and there are a few bills about advancing Hong Kong's advocacy in the hill that's being discussed. Those are the things that we can write to our representative and ask them for support. But at the end of the day, it's also that the struggle of Hong Kong is a puzzle, a piece of puzzle in a broad picture of the struggles against authoritarianism and autocracy. We've been through a decade or two of democratic decline around the world and Hong Kong was part of it. So one thing to raise awareness of the issue of Hong Kong is also to protect your democracy. We are in an election year and you should do your homework, be educated, and be decided to come out to vote. This is an act of safeguarding our democracy.   Miko Lee: [00:45:52] And from your perspective as a Hong Kong person who's now living in London, do you have thoughts on the upcoming American presidential campaign?   Nathan Law: [00:46:03] Well, of course, this is a particularly important, election as the world has been, in like a chaotic situation as we've seen the warfare in Ukraine, in Gaza, and also all the political crackdowns in Hong Kong and around China, and also the threat to Taiwan. So for me, as a person who dedicated myself into the fight for human rights and democracy, definitely, I do hope that people can, American people can elect someone who upholds the values that we share and is very determined to, to support Taiwan and the struggle of Hong Kong. So that would be my parameter when it comes to the US election, but at the end of the day, I'm not a US citizen, so I don't really have a stake in this. campaign. But, yeah, I think we we need a leader that that can lead the free world and to do good things   Miko Lee: [00:47:06] And Nathan I know as an activist as a leader, you've gotten a lot of attention. And I know that there have been personal attacks against you for both yourself and people that are close to you, including your family members. How do you persevere through that?   Nathan Law: [00:47:26] It's difficult to cope with the harms that that's exerted, not only to you, but to your family, because they actually have nothing to do with everything I do. This collective punishment is evil, and it's intentionally used to hurt you. So it's difficult to persevere and navigate myself in these attacks, including personal attacks and also collective punishment to my family and my former colleagues. So, yeah, I think for me, it takes a lot of time to digest and to find a way to balance it. And it's not easy. One thing that I think is great to be portrayed in the film is that for us, we are activists, we are leaders, but we're not, we're not invincible. We're not without any pains and struggles. So as an activist, I think most of my time is actually being used to cope with anxiety, cope with fear, and how I can maintain as mentally healthy as possible in these political storms.   Miko Lee: [00:49:04] And how do you do that?   Nathan Law: [00:49:05] It's not easy, yeah.   Miko Lee: [00:49:06] How do you do that, Nathan? How do you cope with the anxiety and the fear? What's do you have a process that helps you?   Nathan Law: [00:49:16] I think first of all, you have to recognize that is it's normal to have these emotions. This these are definitely emotions that disturb your lives, your work, but they're normal because you are situated in an extraordinary situation and people from all corners, they want a piece of you or they want to attack you to achieve their purpose. And I think as long as you recognize it, as you, as, as long as you know that you are suffering from it, first of all, having a support group is really important for those people who understand who you are and who support you unconditionally, and also seeking professional help, no matter if it's a therapist or a psychiatrist, those who can listen to you and, and just try out. I don't think there is a one set of measures that fit for all, and that there is such a rich combination of how you can deal with anxiety and pressure. But I think the very first thing is you, you have to recognize that it's normal to have these emotion. You need to seek help and you need to try them out.  Otherwise, it's difficult for the others to help you, and those who love you would also be hurt, seeing you suffering from all these negative emotions.   Miko Lee: [00:50:47] Thank you for sharing. My last question for you, Nathan, is what was it like the first time you saw the finished documentary, seeing yourself up there on the big screen? What did that feel like for you?   Nathan Law: [00:50:58] It feels extremely weird. I still cannot get around the idea that, yeah, there's a big screen and there's my face and there's my voice. Even though I've been doing all these interviews and, and like video-taking for the past decades, it is still difficult to kind of get used to it. But also I'm, I'm glad that Joe and the team have produced a wonderful documentary. That's been a really good reception and people are understand more about Hong Kong through the lens of my story, and I'm grateful for that. So, yeah, as long as I can introduce that film to the others, go to Q&A and chat about it, I would love to do it, and I'm really proud of the result.   Miko Lee: [00:51:52] Thank you so much. And Joe, for you as the filmmaker, what is it that you want people to understand about this film?   Joe Piscatella: [00:52:01] What I want the audiences to take away is that, yes, this is the story of Hong Kong. Yes, this is the story of Nathan Law and other activists fighting for Hong Kong. But in so many ways, this is also a story for the rest of the world. Right now, we are at a point where, you know, democracy is in peril in many parts of the world. And what I want audiences to take away from this film is, if you don't participate in your democracy, if you do not do what you can to fight for and safeguard your freedoms. They can disappear very, very quickly.   Miko Lee: [00:52:37] Thank you very much, filmmaker Joe Piscatella and Nathan Law for talking with me about the new documentary film, Who's Afraid of Nathan Law?, which people can catch on POV PBS. We are so happy to see the film, to see that it's out there. I look forward to hearing more about the world's response to this powerful work. Thank you so much.   Nathan Law: [00:53:03] Yeah, thank you, Miko.   Joe Piscatella: [00:53:05] Thank you.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:53:07] Let's listen to one more song from APAture's 2024 featured musician Ian Santillano. This is “Overthinkings.”   MUSIC   You just listen to Ian Santillano and Āish's “Overthinkings.” You can check out Ian on Sunday, October 13th at the DNA Lounge for the APAture Music Showcase.   Miko Lee: [00:56:53] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.  Tonight's show was produced by Miko Lee and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 10.10.24 – Return appeared first on KPFA.

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** Did Hawaiians drink kava? Yes, the Hawaiians enjoyed kava. Special Hawaiian Epic After much research, Kamu shares a sprawling Hawaiian epic about Hawaii's family of Wind Guardians.  → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/159-paakaa-4 Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** Who advised ali'i? The ali'i had advisors, including a chamberlain, which were called Kahu. Special Hawaiian Epic After much research, Kamu shares a sprawling Hawaiian epic about Hawaii's family of Wind Guardians.  → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/158-paakaa-3 Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** Was there an ali'i on each Hawaiian Island? Yes. Islands were populated by villages, run by an ali'i, or chief. While an ali'i nui, oversaw the island. This dynamic changed over time until King Kamehameha ruled all the islands. Special Hawaiian Epic After much research, Kamu shares a sprawling Hawaiian epic about Hawaii's family of Wind Guardians.  → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/157-paakaa-2 Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

→ Join our mission of spreading Asian & Pacific Islander cultural awareness by signing up for our mailing list. Please support our show by purchasing our merch: → Legends from the Pacific: Book 1 is available on Amazon. https://amzn.to/3CIYo6m (Amazon Affiliate link) → Shirts and more are at our store! → Join our Patreon for exclusive stories. ***** Who was Hawaii's Goddess of Wind? The Hawaiian Goddess of Wind was La'amaomao, and her wind gourd is a sacred artifact.   Special Hawaiian Epic After much research, Kamu shares a sprawling Hawaiian epic about Hawaii's family of Wind Guardians.  → Join our email list https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Theme Song: "Mystery" by Tavana, courtesy of HI*Sessions Sound Effects: Sound Effects Factory Music Coordinator: Matt Duffy AKA DJ TripleBypass Link to this episode on our website: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/156-paakaa Please give us a rating, write a review, subscribe, follow us, and share us with your friends and family. ***** Join our email list and claim your exclusive unaired episode today: "Hawaii's Faceless Ghost - Mujina" (Unaired Episode) https://legendsfromthepacific.ck.page/32ca50bd23 *We respect your privacy. We will not share your email. You can unsubscribe at any time. Listen to unaired Hawaiian stories, and Kamu's paranormal experiences by becoming a Patreon supporter today: https://www.patreon.com/legendsfromthepacific Send your unusual Pacific experience to be shared on a future episode. https://legendsfromthepacific.com/feedback  Visit our Fan Art Section: https://legendsfromthepacific.com/fan-artwork Instagram: legendsfromthepacific X: LegendsPacific Follow Legends from the Pacific wherever you listen to audio. → Follow via Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legends-from-the-pacific/id1501091122 → Follow via Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/search/legends%20from%20the%20pacific → Follow via Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qhdkYUl8R7hSw6OZYJLye → Here's our RSS feed: https://legendsfromthepacific.libsyn.com/rss www.LegendsFromThePacific.com

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee speaks with playwright Naomi Iizuka and graphic novelist/activist Eddie Ahn.   For more information about the show's guests:   the MAGIC THEATRE and PLAY ON SHAKESPEARE present: Richard II A new translated version by NAOMI IIZUKA from William Shakespeare August 21 -September 8, 2024 Tickets available here. Eddie Ahns Advocate SHOW TRANSCRIPT Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko: [00:00:34] Good evening. Welcome to Apex Express. This is your host, Miko Lee. And tonight we're going to talk about retelling stories. So join us as you hop along the Apex Express. Welcome one and all to Apex Express. This is your host, Miko Lee. And tonight we're talking about retelling stories. I had the opportunity to speak to two artists. One is the playwright, Naomi Iizuka and the second is the activist artists graphic novelist Eddie Ahn. So first up, take a listen to my interview with playwright, Naomi Iizuka. Before we recorded the interview, I actually had a chance to talk with Naomi and we worked together many moons ago. We actually were calculating based on our children's ages. We work together in theater at Berkeley rep. And it is amazing to see Naomi retelling, so many stories in so many different cultures and genres. And here we talk about her experience rewriting Richard II which I had a chance to see at the magic theater. It has some absolutely amazing production values, and I encourage you all to go check it out. We'll put a link to the show in our show notes. So check out my interview with Naomi Iizuka. Welcome Naomi Iizuka to Apex Express. We're so excited to have the award winning playwright whose adaptation of Richard II opens at the Magic Theatre August 23rd and runs through September 8th. Welcome Naomi.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:02:30] Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and so honored.   Miko Lee: [00:02:34] Well, we're honored to have you. I want to start with my big question, which I adapted from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges, which is who are your people and where do you come from?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:02:46] That's a beautiful question. I think that my people are adventurous and iconoclastic, and that means that they come from many different places, geographically and also spiritually and artistically. I definitely feel an affinity for the Bay Area. it was the first place I really. Came to in my sort of adult life and I feel a great affinity for theater people and theater artists. we are, I think, a community of artists that come from, you know, all sorts of traditions and we make this evanescent event. And I think there's something really beautiful in that.   Miko Lee: [00:03:31] Ooh, evanescent event. I really like that. That sounds so pretty. I'm wondering what legacy you carry with you from your people.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:03:40] I think, an awareness of history, an awareness of Mystery sort of just beyond your peripheral vision that there are stories that haven't been told that there are tremors and voices just underneath the surface of the every day And a real curiosity about that, and I think that that cuts across a lot of, people in my life who actually are not only in theater, you know, people who are, attorneys and in academia and scientists. I mean, just, I think, I think it's, a kind of an adventurous, um, curiosity. I think that that is what I've inherited.   Miko Lee: [00:04:18] Oh, thank you for sharing that. I'm wondering if that lends itself to the fact that you've adapted a number of classics. We're going to be talking about Richard III, but I know you also did a version of Hamlet that was set in Oakland, Orpheus, and the Odyssey, and Japanese folktales. Can you talk a little bit about what sparks your curiosity around adaptations?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:04:40] That's a great question. I think that adaptations at their best are conversations with ghosts. And I guess I really enjoy that. I enjoy this idea of, in some way being in conversation with. Consciousnesses that are not maybe here on this plane of existence anymore, but have left their thoughts and their, big questions, they've sort of embedded them in these works of art. And so when you adapt Shakespeare or you adapt a Japanese folktale, I feel like you're in conversation with These ghosts and they're wise and they're playful and they're mysterious and they're, challenging. And I, I love that. I love that experience.   Miko Lee: [00:05:25] Aside from the adaptations, have you had personal experiences with ghosts?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:05:30] Oh, wow. I would say yes. but I, I, I maybe not. That's something maybe I don't want to talk about.   Miko Lee: [00:05:39] No worries. I always love to hear. I have had experience with ghosts. So I always love to hear other people's ghost stories. I get it. If you don't want to talk about that's okay. Can you talk with me about this adaptation of Richard II? And I'm wondering how you got involved in this adaptation?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:05:59] Well, it's a commission. So I was asked to adapt or really translate is the word that I think is more accurate, a Shakespeare play. And it, it's a project called, play on where a bunch of contemporary writers were asked to translate Shakespeare. What that means is that we were really asked to do a deep dive into the original texts. I'm going to say plural because I think there are different versions even, and figure out the most muscular, vivid version of Shakespeare. Of Shakespeare that we could figure out for contemporary audiences. So it's less about putting our own spin on something. It's really about really wrestling with that material and finding this muscular Present day version of the material that is true to the original, and that brings to light the original and what sort of underneath the surface, you know, for contemporary audiences.   Miko Lee: [00:07:03] And since Richard II is about power and corruption, and we're in this election season, we just are in the midst of the Democratic Convention, I'm wondering if you see parallels with Richard II and what's happening now in our political realm.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:07:18] I do. I mean, and it's interesting because I think that even though this play is centuries old, it does very much speak to the present moment where you have really different ideas about what is the right direction for a country and for a government and what it means to govern. And I think that I cannot think of more timely questions. And also candidly, this sort of anxiety, that's, I think, an anxiety that we all feel in this moment where there are really You know, strong differences and and we've had some really, difficult divisions in our country and in within our own families. And I, and that is so, so much at play in Richard II. There's, these arguments that people have they're life and death and they're within families and they're within, you know, they're within countries and how they are resolved really changes the trajectory of the future. So yes, 100 percent it's so timely. It's, it's unbelievably timely.   Miko Lee: [00:08:24] And you've done a lot of works that are around, of adaptations, we talked about you doing those, but also you've done a lot of works that are around really intense issues from sexual assault and good kids and refugees and anonymous and unhoused youth and Polaroid stories. What draws you to storytelling? What draws you to the specific stories that you have been telling?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:08:48] I think that there is an answer to that question that is both conscious and aware and unconscious and more subterranean. So what's probably the most truthful answer is, I don't know, there is a kind of curiosity and hunger that I think I've had. I know I've had for my whole life, my whole life that I can remember where I want to know what the story is. I want to, you know, I see a person and I want to know where they came from. you know that, that excitement that I, I suspect many of us feel when you go into a library and you see all those books and you think, what are the stories? So that's the more sort of subterranean, um, sort visceral, impetus for storytelling. I think as I've gotten older and I've thought about it and I've become a teacher, I think that storytelling is incredibly powerful. And I think that how you tell stories and who gets to tell stories is so powerful. And I, and I think I'm perhaps stating the obvious, but I think it's something that I remind myself of on a regular basis. And so. My desire to tell stories that, maybe aren't told or aren't told in a way that is familiar is really deep. I, I think that that's perhaps maybe the most meaningful way that at least I can move through the world and the, and the writers and artists that are around me, the storytellers, dancers as well, and choreographers. I, I, think they share that, this sense that who tells the story and how you tell it. It matters a lot.   Miko Lee: [00:10:20] And so much of this work is really powerful and is really trying to hit at sometimes hidden histories, stories that we don't hear as often. I'm wondering if you think of yourself as an activist.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:10:33] You know, I haven't In all honesty, I don't, but I think I am, I think I am because I feel really acutely, certain things that must be said, and I think I'm realizing that the act of saying them and saying them you know, over time is actually an activist posture, you know, that you, have an engagement with the world that doesn't slacken that, continues over time and you stand your ground. And I think that if that can be something that, I can contribute in some small way. I will feel that there's some meaning to what it is I do.   Miko Lee: [00:11:14]And I'm wondering, because you've done genres, many different genres, from writing for TV, and then also stage, and writing for children's theater and adult theater, I'm wondering if, how each of those play into your writing process. Do you write differently when you write for TV versus stage? Do you put on a different hat to get into character so that you could do that? Do you write differently for children's work? I also see some of your children's theater pieces as being like really around intense issues. So I'm just wondering about how you blend those and if you kind of divide up parts of yourself or what is your approach to writing in these different genres?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:11:51] I think it's a great question. I always start, maybe not always, but I think 99 percent of the time I start with character because I think that when you start with character, you start with humans. And when you start with humans, you start with mystery. And I think that that to me feels like the most exciting starting point, whether you're writing a play for young audiences, or whether you're writing, a translation of a Shakespeare play, or whether you're writing something for television. So I think that's a common thread, starting with the human mystery inside of a life, inside of an individual, inside of their circumstances. that's, I think, the starting point always.   Miko Lee: [00:12:33] And you've been collaborating with Campo Santo and John and now the magic for so many years. Can you talk a little bit about the benefits and or challenges of long term collaboration?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:12:44] Think long term collaboration is perhaps one of the greatest gifts that an artist can be afforded because it means that you have a home and sort of looping back to an earlier question of yours, you have a tribe of people, a community of people that you're connected to and, and you have a shared, responsibility to the storytelling. And that, As I get older, feels so, it feels rare and it feels really precious because I mean, when I work with Camposanto, I just, you know, now I, and I've, you know, talking with Margo or Sean and Catherine Castellanos, I've known them for such a long time and I've watched them work and I've been in awe of their work and they, there's a way that we connect through the work that is, deeper than, than the surface layer, that you're able to sort of plumb depths that you sometimes can't when you're, just starting out working with someone, you know, and they may be a wonderful artist, but you just don't have those years of, knowledge and, trust.   Miko Lee: [00:13:57] Yeah, so many layers that you can rely on and that trust and the connection. Um, I guess they're kind of the family when we were talking in the very beginning, your tribe of people, the theater people.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:14:09] They are very much my tribe of people. I mean, I, I love them and it has felt like coming home, you know, to, to work with them.   Miko Lee: [00:14:16] Yay. I'm wondering if your ethnic tribe growing up in multiple parts, you know, being born in Japan and Indonesia and U. S. and being mixed race, Japanese Latin American, how does that impact your creative process?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:14:33] You know, I think I'm still answering that question. I think one thing that is really heartening is when I was younger, I felt very much like, oh, I don't fit into any box. And there aren't that many people like me that are, you know, multi ethnic and multi racial. And, as I've gotten older now, and I look at, for example, my son's generation, I'm like, that is now, I don't know if it's the norm, but in California, there's, so many people who are, mixed in and the mixtures are, you know, they run the gamut and I think in terms of my own work, maybe what that led to early on was an awareness that. the reality of lived existence for most people is complicated and not easily paraphrasable, and I think that that bred in me a certain humility and also a certain, there's a certain challenge there, you know, like, how do I, How do I evoke the truth of this really complicated reality that is not just my own reality, but, so many of us, right? we're not one thing. We're, we're many things, some of which are not always visible or some of which are in some ways hidden.   Miko Lee: [00:15:46] Have you ever written a play that's a Japanese Latin American play?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:15:51] not explicitly, no. I mean, I think a lot of the plays that I've written, they, they are, I would say, flexible in terms of their casting and in terms of their point of view.And I think that they invite, they invite that kind of collision. But specifically, no.   Miko Lee: [00:16:12] Well, I would be so curious to see your take on, like, the Japanese Latin American kidnapping and incarceration of that whole community. Yeah, there's so many stories that have not been told about the JLA community.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:16:26] So many, yep.   Miko Lee: [00:16:28] I'm wondering if there is a story that you grew up with that you remember your family telling you that's helped to frame your creative process?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:16:36] Oh, wow. That is a really great question. my maternal grandmother, was a, kind of a mysterious woman. And I, I wondered a lot about her and I think there were a lot of secrets in her past. I think she is somebody it's actually less about the stories that were told and more about the questions that not only I had about her, but my mother had about her, my uncle had about her, that we just never fully found out. We, you know, we discovered when she was well into her seventies that she was blind in one eye. She never learned to read or write and it was a little bit unclear. Estranged, I guess, from her family of origin. yeah, it just, there's so many questions about her. I think the other story from my father's side of the family, from the Japanese side of the family, which I have written about, actually, because my father told the story, from when I was, for as long as I can remember, my father was a, was a very young child in World War II and he was Japanese national and he, and he was in Tokyo with his family and their house was bombed. And my father was not in the house. He was supposed to have been in the house, but he, Kind of, he was very little. He was, I think he was like five or six, and he had wandered away. My father, kind of, the moral of the story for my father was always like, you know, don't do what people tell you, because if you do, something bad may happen. So he didn't do what he was supposed to do. He didn't stay put. He wandered away. And, and he, as a result, he survived, you know, and, think That was a story that I, I still think about. and I, if you knew my father, it would make a lot of sense because he has this really, um, very, defiant is not the quite the right word, but he really knew who he was and he wasn't going to sort of take it from anyone. He was just going to, you know, do it his way. and that story felt very much, you know, the origin story of that personality.   Miko Lee: [00:18:35] So he had encouraged you to be a rebel, to kind of be who you are.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:18:40] A little bit. But you know what's so funny is I, you know, growing up, I was not like my father. You know, my father was, you know, he would, he told many stories. I'm not gonna, I can't tell you all of them, but you know, he was kind of a naughty kid growing up and, and he got in trouble, you know, he was, you know, and, and I was not that way. I was the opposite. I was a really, you know, very obedient, good student. Actually, in a strange way, my father, I think had the last laugh because I did turn out to be in my life choices, I think rather rebellious, but that wasn't nobody's meeting me as a, you know, as a teenager or a child would have thought that they would have thought, Oh, you know, what a well behaved, polite, you know, good student and then I turned out to have a kind of a very different trajectory. It's interesting.   Miko Lee: [00:19:24] What's the first play you ever wrote? How old were you? And what was it?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:19:28] I think the very first play I wrote was this very strange play. I was, a senior in college and it was called Betty Ford and the Dream Commandos. I think I have only a copy that's paper because I wrote it on a typewriter. That's how old I am. And I, I, it was a really expressionistic, strange piece that was that they did site specifically, it was short. I think it was maybe a 20 minute play. And I honestly don't remember the story of it. I remember fragmentary moments of it. I remember there was a chorus of dream commandos that were sort of like sort of ninja like and there was a Betty Ford character who was kind of in a haze. Yeah.   Miko Lee: [00:20:12] That is so wacky. Why Betty Ford?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:20:16] God knows. I don't know. I mean, I   Miko Lee: [00:20:18] Betty Ford as like First Lady Betty Ford or Betty Ford as in running the rehab center?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:20:24] Well, I mean, it was the same person and I think you put your finger on it, which is that I This was a woman that I think I, as a young person, I remember watching her on television and thinking, and this was before the sort of drug rehabilitation part of her life. I just thinking like, she has a hard life. She seems, you know, she's smiling, but I, I think behind that smile, well, again, it gets to that human mystery. I, I guess I was curious about her. She seemed like somebody that, Had this persona and had this sort of public facing, way about her, but that there was a lot of sort of still waters run deep about her too. So I think, I think that that was, that made me curious, you know?   Miko Lee: [00:21:07] Oh, I would love to have a reading with playwrights reading their first plays. That would be so fun.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:21:13] That'd probably a little sad. Scary.   Miko Lee: [00:21:17] I, there's a beautiful exhibit art exhibit where they had children's book authors. The, um, this was a museum of children's art did it and they had their work now beside a work they created when they were a kid and in framed and it was so gorgeous because. Everyone really showed that even when they were like five years old, they were already creating their style. So Naomi Iizuka: [00:21:40] That's fascinating. Yeah.   Miko Lee: [00:21:41] So I just love, I would love to see playwrights that from playwrights. Anyways. I'm wondering if you can talk about your daily creative process, like what do you do? I mean, I, I talked to Isabel Allende about this and she said, every morning I get up, I get a cup of tea, I make myself go into this room and I write, even if it's painful. Yeah. And even if it's bad, I'm wondering if you have like a set schedule or how do you do it?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:22:06] I don't have a set schedule. Mainly, I, I wish I, I did, and I may be able to now in my life, but I think for many years just juggling a day job. And, and I, and I still have, you know, I teach and I, I write for television and so it's, it's a little hectic. and I was a single mom. But now my son is in college, I just actually dropped him off. So I think I will have my schedule be a little different. What I do, which is I think related to what you just described, is I make sure that I write every day, but it's not always at the same time. So sometimes if I have the luxury of, a day where I, don't have to be somewhere at 8am, I will write in the morning. And I do like very much sort of waking up, brewing a cup of coffee and, writing. But I also write, you know, late at night. In fact, I was, you know, just dropping my son off at college and, he was asleep. And, I was sort of in a different part of in the Airbnb where we were staying. And I, Just wrote, you know, so I was like, as long as I'm writing a certain amount of time or certain number of pages a day. But I also agree with what you described in Isabella and his process that it's really important to write even when you don't feel like it. And I tell my students that all the time, because, you know, if you just wait till you feel like it, then you know, you may not write very much. So you have to write even when you don't feel like it. And even when it feels like the writing is hard, or it's not what you want it to be. And then it will, if you keep at it, you know, it will be.   Miko Lee: [00:23:32] Thanks. Okay. My last question for you is what are you reading, watching, or listening to right now? First thing that comes to your mind, what are you consuming?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:23:41] That's so great. I am reading, right now this, I guess you would call it a graphic novel Uzumaki, which is kind of iconic. And I had read part of it a while back, but I am kind of reading the whole, like all the volumes. And it's this Very strange, I guess you'd call it J horror, dystopian, comic, but it's beautifully illustrated and the story is really mysterious and compelling. I'm listening to Pod Save America just because it's election season and I'm really curious you know, what those guys have to say. And I haven't seen it yet, but I just actually texted Sean. I'm going to see that this weekend because it just came down to San Diego. I'm going to see Sing Sing with Coleman Domingo and Sean San Jose. And I cannot wait. I'm so excited. I feel like I'm the last person to see it because it was in New York and it was in LA and then it opened in San Diego just as I was like leaving to drop my son off at college. So I'm seeing it this weekend.   Miko Lee: [00:24:41] I just actually was looking at this note from Stephanie Shu saying go see it tonight. I will get you free tickets for Sing Sing. I was just thinking about that. I should go see that tonight.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:24:52] I'm so excited.   Miko Lee: [00:24:53] Me too. Very excited. and Coleman also lovely Bay Area person. Uzumaki, that looks fascinating. Supernatural psychological horror is what is the genre.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:25:06] No, it's, it's, it's really extraordinary. And, the thing is, is the reason I'm, I'm reading it now is I have like the full collected, all the volumes in one sort of giant omnibus. And so I'm reading everything, you know, all of them from beginning to end. I'd read the first, the first one, which is probably the most famous one, but it's great. I mean, even if it's not your cup of tea, it's, it's so cool. I love it. It is kind of my cup of tea, but, but even if it's not, you will love it.   Miko Lee: [00:25:32] Okay. Thank you for the recommendation. we're going to post links for people to buy tickets for the show at the magic. Is there anything else that you'd like to let our audience know about you and your work?   Naomi Iizuka: [00:25:44] I think you covered it. You're a really good interviewer.   Miko Lee: [00:25:49] Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. I'm going to see the show this weekend. I can't wait to see it and I'm excited to see what else you create next. Thank you so much, Naomi.   Naomi Iizuka: [00:26:00] Thank you.   Miko Lee: [00:26:01] Next up, listen to Florente Aguilar a Manila born guitarist and composer whose arrangements and composition successfully craft the balance between respect and redefinition of tradition. MUSIC   That was Florente Aguilar, a Manila born guitarist, and you are listening to Apex Express. Next up, take a listen to my conversation with advocate, activist and graphic illustrator, Eddie Ahn. It is quite amazing to hear from an artist, who's an activist, who's telling their story. And tonight it's all about how we retell stories, whether that's rewriting a traditional piece like Shakespeare or rewriting the tale that is your life and doing it. In graphic illustration style. So listen to my interview with Eddie Ahn. Welcome Eddie Ahn to Apex Express.   Eddie Ahn: [00:29:40] Thanks for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:29:41] I'm so excited to be able to talk to you about your new graphic memoir of family, community, and the fight for environmental justice. Loved reading your book and looking at the artistry. It's so powerful. So I want to start with my very first question that I ask many guests, which is who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Eddie Ahn: [00:30:04] Gosh, the book itself covers a lot of my people, particularly my family, myself. I am now, two generations removed, of course, from my grandfather, which the book begins with. he himself was, uh, very brilliant person from all accounts, was a translator for the U S army and South Korean army during the Korean war. And then, I am also, you know, this, the son of immigrants, my mother and father who came from South Korea to the US and really built their careers and their family here. So I think a lot about that migration pattern and how it's influenced who I am today and what I do.   Miko Lee: [00:30:44] And what legacy do you carry with you from those ancestors?   Eddie Ahn: [00:30:48] I think a lot about their successes and failures. so the challenges that they encountered along the way. My grandfather, of course, was A survivor of a lot of trauma he himself went through the Korean War. and then also was separated from his family a lot after, you know, the Korean DMZ, the demilitarized zone was settled. So for him, his life is really one of, Very, very deep trauma and tragedy, having been separated from most of his family. And then he had to go start a new family in South Korea. And a lot of the book covers, the initial kind of devastation he faced. And then later on that the challenges he faced, even as an entrepreneur, very well educated person trying to survive in South Korea and my mother's resentments around that are also covered in the graphic memoir as well. So a lot of it is like, Dealing with that family kind of conflict and also understanding it in the scope of my own life and how I've chosen to pursue nonprofit work to begin with in the United States.   Miko Lee: [00:31:51] Thank you for sharing that. talk to me about the title of the book, Advocate, and what does that mean to you?   Eddie Ahn: [00:31:58] So the title of the book was always meant to have multiple meanings. It was about advocating for oneself, one's own identity, one's own career choice against, very different family expectations. And then it's about professional advocacy. It's about advocating for diverse communities. The nonprofit I work for is called Bright Line Defense, and we do a lot of environmental justice work. And environmental justice is oftentimes the intersection of issues on the environment, race and identity, and the economy, and then grappling with the intersectionality of those issues. There's a lot of complexity in what I do. And part of the title of the book reflects that and advocating again, for oneself. And for other communities.   Miko Lee: [00:32:46] I love this. And I related to this a lot in terms of nonprofit work. I'm wondering if you could share a little bit more about that, about Asian American expectations, particularly your family, Korean American, and the value of nonprofit work.   Eddie Ahn: [00:33:01] For my own family, my parents in particular, I think their expectations for me and what I was going to do with the educational degrees that I obtained. So I went to a really good school, Brown University in Rhode Island, and then I obtained a law degree at UC College of Law, San Francisco. For them, their expectation was, go out, become highly credentialed, and then go make money. Their metrics of success in the US was about a financial metric of success. and for myself, I never quite took to that, for better, for worse, perhaps for myself, which is also covered in the book, but it's also because I valued social work and the active building community, so much and for them, they struggled with that choice. It wasn't exactly what they saw as succeeding in the U S but for myself, it was always incredibly important to do and pursue.   Miko Lee: [00:33:53] I think that power of your convictions really shows up in the book strongly because I think the classic Asian American story, you did the things, you got the Ivy League degree, you got the law degree, and your connection with your grandfather. I'm wondering about your family's feeling about your connection with your grandfather in terms of being an advocate. What was that like for them and the expectations for you?   Eddie Ahn: [00:34:18] That's a great question. in many ways, they saw the connection that I had with my grandfather early on. So even in the book, I describe moments where I'm reading at his feet, you know, from his library collection, and we would talk about different topics. My Korean back then was always, you know, a shaky, maybe at best, it was conversational. But a lot of what he would relate to me were about complex subjects that, at the time, even as a child, I didn't fully understand. But at least I understood the feeling, the depth behind them, which is why I really enjoyed talking to him. I think my mother reading the book has been actually really surprised at the moments of connection I found. For instance, I drew a photo of myself with my grandfather that she didn't even realize existed. So, Seeing how that relationship has unfolded even through the creation of this book, um, for my mother has been actually really interesting to do.   Miko Lee: [00:35:14] Oh, I love that about your mom and kind of getting a another vision of the history just by seeing a photograph but an image you drew of a photograph. There's a beautiful resonance there and the style of illustrations that you do has a, a soft beauty to it that's kind of lyrical. I really appreciate that. I'm wondering if you could talk with us about the inspiration for creating this memoir and in the style that you did in the graphic novel style.   Eddie Ahn: [00:35:45] I love comics because a lot of it is not just about the art and the panel itself. It's how the story actually moves from panel to panel and how the art gets juxtaposed against larger scenes, for instance for myself in doing this graphic memoir, it was a big jump. for myself, like I'm self taught as an artist to begin with. So understanding, you know, things like. Perspective, coloring, anatomy, those are all things I had to learn as I created this particular graphic memoir. and part of the storytelling technique I use in this graphic memoir is also heavily relying on color to move the time periods of the story. So, for instance, my childhood is represented in shades of red. My days in college and up until law school are represented in shades of green. As I start to go through a more transitional stage in life, like getting more deeply into nonprofit work and trying to figure out how to use my law degree, those are all represented in So for me, like I really want to use color to create that sense of era changes and then also create. Flashbacks and flash forwards in the narrative as well that I think you can really only do in comics. I do think comics is a really unique medium in the way, especially if you're evaluating it or reading it in printed format allows you to turn the page back and forth and enjoy it.   Miko Lee: [00:37:12] What came first, the story that you wanted to tell or the images?   Eddie Ahn: [00:37:19] The very first comic I ever posted, because I originally started publishing these graphic memoir comics on Instagram, was about my Oakland Chinatown work. So my first job out of college was as an AmeriCorps member, working as an after school programmer. I taught arts and public speaking for elementary students, third through fifth grade. I think very nostalgically about that time. It was a really great experience overall to work with youth who were really into receiving the best education possible. They went to Lincoln Elementary School in Oakland, Chinatown. it was a lot of thinking about the joyful moments and then balancing against the difficulties of nonprofit work. So I was an AmeriCorps member, and if folks know, how Financially stressful that position can be. It's essentially at the time it was less than a thousand dollars a month for 40 hours a week. So it was a very under-resourced position. Maybe it's one way to put it, as you know, one tries to serve the community as well.   Miko Lee: [00:38:20] So can you share a little bit about your artistic process?   Eddie Ahn: [00:38:24] So I started with fiction when I worked in comics. And in fact, one of the first zines I ever created was, essentially collected comic strips for hyphen magazine, which was a great, Asian American issues magazine. And I really enjoyed telling stories through the lens, essentially the lens of fictional characters. So for instance, I had a talking turtle character that was trying to sell coffee across San Francisco. again, going back to my grandfather, very much patterned after my grandfather's failed entrepreneurial ambitions. So for me, there was a lot of joy in creating these comic strips, mostly illustrated in black and white. so just simple inks. When I started writing my own, graphic memoir, I was thinking more like what were big, ambitious kind of swings. I wanted to take at storytelling, which is why I started doing the more complex color scheme I described earlier. and then part of it was even trying to figure out what was the tone that I wanted to adopt when I even, was creating these comics on Instagram. So for me, like, it started very early on, perhaps in 2016, I started illustrating the first pages on paper. And then I didn't even publish them until February, 2020. So that was roughly like a week or two before the pandemic where I posted the first, comic and then the audience for it on Instagram grew a lot. So from a couple hundred from back then, to now what's probably over 80,000 followers.   Miko Lee: [00:39:56] Oh, that is so exciting. And by the way, I think, you know, this hyphen magazine, we're part of the same family because hyphen is part of the AACRE network that Apex Express is part of too.   Eddie Ahn: [00:40:05] Yes. I'm, I'm a big fan of AACRE to begin with. And yes, I've always had a lot of affection for the generations of leadership that, have essentially built up hyphen over a long period of time.   Miko Lee: [00:40:16] I love that. Can you talk a little bit about how you combine your artistry with your community organizing?   Eddie Ahn: [00:40:23] Yes, I, in the past I created my art through a series of zines, but then I had to learn how to market and essentially promote myself. And I think my community organizing skills did come into play when I was either going to say zine fests or local arts festivals, as well as Essentially creating art shows, solo art shows in San Francisco. So for each, self published comic book, I would essentially do an art show centered around it. and they, the venues ranged, you might know some of these venues like 111 Minna, marvelous coffee and wine bar, which is now closed, dot art bar and gallery. so there were a number of venues that I would set up essentially, a larger kind of act of community building through art. So I think a lot about those days because, this is all pre pandemic. I really enjoyed bringing together, folks in my nonprofit world, as well as, family and friends to come and appreciate, you know, essentially two or three years worth of art creation nowadays, the book tour has been a very different experience. So that's very much, you know, through a more established publisher, Penguin Random House, and then going to, a number of bookstores across the US has been also a really fun experience to do.   Miko Lee: [00:41:41] What have you learned from going to all these different bookstores?   Eddie Ahn: [00:41:45] I've gotten a better sense of history, how book selling actually happens, and New York, for instance, I did a, a large event, over a hundred people came to The Strand, in Manhattan, which has its own very long history in New York's literary scene.   Miko Lee: [00:42:00] Ah, one of my favorite bookstores, The Strand. Yeah. It's so exciting.   Eddie Ahn: [00:42:04] It's a really beautiful venue, where they hold their literary events. So, I've been very fascinated by how people come together around art through the book tour. And, the Strand event itself was a huge joy because it was, Set up as in conversation with another author, and I like to do those events because it feels less like I'm talking at people and more like I'm talking with a person and then seeing the audience's engagement with material, either through some audience members just flip through a couple pages, and then they'll immediately have questions, or they might have come to the event having read the entire book at this point with their own kind of set of nuanced questions. So seeing the whole range of questions through a number of events has been also a very fun experience.   Miko Lee: [00:42:55] And in the book you write about your family's expectations around non profit life, what do they think now about you as an artist, as a graphic novelist, and kind of going on this book tour? Where are they at with your career now?   Eddie Ahn: [00:43:10] My father actually got to experience some public art installations that I'd done in San Francisco. So, there are these utility boxes which are in the middle of the street. And then my art was blown up to essentially be wrapped around them and then displayed. And the art still exists. This was installed way back in 2019. And it's still around today. So for my dad to see that, take pictures of it, touch it with his own hands, I think was a really good experience. He really did appreciate the physicality of that art and how it's displayed in such a public way. Uh, unfortunately nowadays he's too sick to enjoy the book. but my mother on the other hand has read the book and I think One nice coda to, everything that's described in the book, you know, despite all the conflicts with my family about non profit work is that my mother has grown to appreciate what I do a lot, as a result of reading the book. She says she's read it three times now and has cried on each reading, which initially I was worried about because I thought, you know, She was really perhaps, sensitive about our family and how I describe our family conflicts in the book, but it was really more in her own words about how underappreciated nonprofit workers are at times and how she felt. A lot more empathy for them. As a result, I was really surprised by that observation. I really didn't think she would ever care much for what I do for a living. But, yeah, I thought that was a really nice, reaction on our part.   Miko Lee: [00:44:38] Oh, I love to hear that. switching a bit to you as a young organizer, you started pretty young, you know, with AmeriCorps and then working in nonprofit world. With your experience now, what message would you give yourself when you were just starting out as a student organizer?   Eddie Ahn: [00:44:56] Oh, I think at the time I was fairly cheerful about everything. And I, I think that attribute still, endures to this day. I think it's a really important a character trait to have when one does nonprofit work, because I think it's easy to go through life expecting a lot of things to wonder why you aren't getting X, Y, Z, for myself. What I would tell my younger self is, you know, continue with that cheerful attitude, perhaps have better boundaries at times to on average, my employers have been quite good in the nonprofit sphere, but I do think generally it's easy also to work. Perhaps too much, and to demand too much of oneself in service to community. So maybe, one thing I'll tell my younger self is, to pace yourself too and just be more focused on things that, really excited me at the end of the day. you know, the flip side of that, maybe a counterpoint is like, it was important to try out a lot of stuff too. So, I think it all worked out in many ways, just trying out things that it may not have been the most efficient use of my time, but I still learned a lot.   Miko Lee: [00:46:02] Speaking of pacing yourself, you currently have more than a full time job as an executive director of a environmental non profit. You're on several boards and commissions, and just have written this graphic novel. What do you do to take care of yourself?   Eddie Ahn: [00:46:19] Um, I do enjoy, you know, like most people streaming shows and, even one quirk of mine that I enjoy relaying is like, I'm very much into the let's what's called the let's play movement. it's watching essentially other people play video games on YouTube and myself, like I can play a video game. I have, played several, over the last few years that I really do enjoy, but there's something very kind of therapeutic about watching someone else be productive or. perhaps entertaining themselves, without me having to, figure it out myself. So I think part of it is like just being able to relax and just watch a screen is, is, relaxing a form of meditation.   Miko Lee: [00:47:00] Okay. Thanks for that. What do you want folks to understand after reading your graphic novel?   Eddie Ahn: [00:47:08] One interesting thing I've thought a lot about is how the book describes non profit work is not about saving communities. and that sometimes it's referred to in academia as like the savior complex or messiah complex. I do think just being Aware of the complexity of our world and how difficult it is to resolve or fix issues is a core message of the book I hope comes across, and in many ways, comics, you know, is dominated by the superhero genre too, which I think a lot, and of course I love superhero comics to begin with. I do read quite a few of them. And then what I've been fascinated by is thinking through like, Superheroes themselves as characters are out to often fix the world or save the world and so thinking through that dynamic and how this comic is not about that, I think has been a good thing to go through for myself as an artist. So I hope that message comes across despite it being a comic.   Miko Lee: [00:48:15] Thanks for that. I think it's, as opposed to the superhero genre, I see your book more in the personal stories like Pee Booie's The Best We Could Do or Marianne's Persepolis. I see it more in that genre of like really personal family storytelling as opposed to a superhero genre. It's so powerful.   Eddie Ahn: [00:48:38] Thank you. Yes, I agree. I really appreciate those books as well and how they're able to essentially highlight the perspective of the protagonists alongside the environments in which they grow up in, whether it's family or a nation state, etc.   Miko Lee: [00:48:55] And I appreciate how your graphic novel really has your trajectory, you know, going from understanding family, but also really your adult life as somebody that works in the nonprofit field. I think it's really new in that approach. What's next for you?   Eddie Ahn: [00:49:12] Oh, gosh, I am still drawing. I am never wanting to give up on art at the end of the day. I think it's how I've improved as an artist is that I do drive myself to think through, a larger, better project. On Instagram, I'll continue to publish more comics in the future. I am planning through a potential mural project in San Francisco. Uh, it would be very different than the utility box art installations I've done in the past. as for my nonprofit work at Brightline, I'm still very much enjoy it. I have a incredible, team that I work with and I. I've really come to appreciate everything that Brightline has as a result of early years of grinding work that I put in and then to see other people also put in really high quality work for the organization has has been a joy to me personally. So I hope to keep on doing what I'm doing at Brightline for a long time to come. And yeah, I guess we'll find out in the coming years ahead.   Miko Lee: [00:50:14] I like, I, I, one, I'm curious to find out more about the mural, excited to learn more about that, and it sounds like you're going to hold these, both sides of yourself as the artist, as the non profit leader, you're going to continue to do them both. I'm wondering, so much of non profit life is, we're learning by experience, you know, we're, and so I'm thinking about, The connection with being a self taught artist like you're always just learning something. How has being a self taught artist impacted your artistic work and your work in nonprofit world?   Eddie Ahn: [00:50:47] I think it's improved my patience, both in non profit work and in evolving my art style. everything I do is drawn by hand, so I typically just work pencil to paper, ink over pencils, and then finally, Copic markers, their alcohol based art marker, to lay on the color, and that technique essentially evolved over, gosh, uh, eight, nine year period to you and get to where the book is now, the book itself is the culmination of well over 5,000 hours, and each page, you know, on average is probably somewhere between 20 to 30 hours. So just having that kind of discipline to develop everything around the book, has really taught me a lot, I think about life. And then also it's been a nice form of meditation unto itself to just to be able to create art. For that long of a period, over, you know, essentially a long, timeline has, has been really good for my own processes, thinking processes around nonprofit work, because it pushes me to, be creative in the nonprofit work itself.   Miko Lee: [00:51:59] Well, Eddie Ahn, author of Advocate, tell our audience how they can find out more about your work.   Eddie Ahn: [00:52:06] The book can be found, in a number of local bookstores at this point, Penguin Random House has done excellent work in distributing across the US of course, it can be found at most major booksellers, such as Barnes Noble, bookshop.org, et cetera. and they can also find my art online for free on Instagram. The handle is at E H A—those are my initials, Eddie Ahn—comics, as it sounds.   Miko Lee: [00:52:37] Thank you so much. We so appreciate hearing, from you more about your book and we look forward to seeing your murals and seeing the work that you do out in the community.Thank you so much.   Eddie Ahn: [00:52:48] Thanks again for having me, Miko. Really appreciate you.   Miko Lee: [00:52:50] Please check out our website, kpfa.org To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.   The post APEX Express – 8.29.24 – Retelling Stories appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight we present our sister podcast Continental Shifts. Hosts Gabriel and Estella speak with Tavae Samuelu.   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening, everyone. You're listening to APEX Express Thursday nights at 7 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we're wrapping up the podcast continental shifts created by bi-coastal educators, Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the concept's podcast, Gabe and Estella, talked with union leader and educator Yan Yii about creating culturally relevant classrooms, the importance and emotional toll of teachers being a social safety net for marginalized students, and the ever-growing union presence in education. Tonight. They're talking to Tavae Samuelu about what it will take to organize across ethnic groups, specifically Pacific Islander and Asian communities, beyond ethnic or national lines. And what future we're visioning for when the US empire falls. If this is your first touch into the conshifts podcast, I strongly recommend diving into the apex archives on kpfa.org. Backslash programs, backslash apex express to check out the previous episodes. And also to check out the podcast on ConShift's site at continentalshifts.podbean.com or anywhere podcasts are found. But for now, let's get to the show.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:02:05] When Toni Morrison talks about Invisible Man and asked this question of like invisible to who? Like, what do I care if whiteness sees me? Also know I come across folks who are like, I say API cause I was taught that that was inclusive. And I was like, I bet you a PI didn't tell you that [laughs].   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:02:27] What will it take to organize across ethnic groups, specifically Pacific Islander and Asian communities. In this episode, we rap with the amazing Tavae Samuelu to strategize ways we might organize AAPI folks across and beyond ethnic or national lines.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:48] What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo'u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, uso.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:02:53] What's good, family? This is Gabriel, kumusta? Pronouns he/him.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:56] Tavae Samuelu is the daughter of a pastor from Leo Lumoenga and a nurse from Salemoa in Samoa as the executive director of Empowering Pacific Islander Communities, she's a passionate advocate for Pacific Islanders and is committed to liberation for all. Tavae was born, raised, and currently resides on Tongva territory. She credits her time on unceded Ohlone land for her political consciousness. During the pandemic, she has learned that her most important title is Auntie Vae. I had the pleasure of meeting Tavae at the Asian Pacific American Labor Alliance Conference in Vegas a couple of years ago when I sat in on her workshop related to organizing Pacific Islander communities. It was, and I'm sure I've told her this by now, one of the first times in my life I have ever felt seen as a Samoan woman. Uso, thank you so much for joining us today. Please go ahead and take a few minutes to further introduce yourself to our listeners.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:03:57] Thank you, Stella. I've heard you say that before and it always makes me tear up [laughs]. That's also probably the most rewarding aspect of this job, of this community work, to be able to hear from people that they feel seen and validated. By, you know, by what we do and what, by what we put out there in the world. As I said, you know, currently residing on Tongva territory, what is momentarily known as Long Beach, California, until we get this land back to who it rightfully belongs to. You know I'm really clear and really intentional in this pro indigenous approach of naming the original stewards of this land because it's important to me that we know who to return the land to when this empire falls and that we're really clear, right? Not to just be in solidarity as a performative aspect, but naming our indigenous siblings who continue to exist, who are incredibly resilient and are still the experts on the best way to take care of this land and each other and how to be good relatives.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:05:13] She said, “when the empire fall,” I went [laughs].   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:05:16] When the empire, when the empire falls. When…so.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:05:19] I mean, let me credit to Dakota Camacho, who taught me to say “momentarily known as” I was like, yeah, that is a manifestation, if ever. I like that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna borrow that. Let me also cite Dakota Camacho for that.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:05:33] Tavae I would love to know just a little more about your backstory. What brought you to this work in particular, organizing in the Pacific Island community and spaces.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:05:43] My path was circuitous. I think there are a couple of milestones that are important to be explicit about. I've been Pacific Islander my entire life, right? Whatever that means to be born into racism and understand that race is a social construct. And so what it means to be Pacific Islander has also changed every single moment of my life. I would say that the way that I language and articulate my Pacific Islander identity most definitely needs to be credited to black feminist thought and that despite being Pacific Islander my entire life [laughs], it wasn't really until, you know, I was an undergrad at Cal and an ethnic studies major and introduced to Audre Lorde and bell H=hooks and Angela Davis and especially Kimberlé Crenshaw, right? The person who so often is not credited enough for coining intersectionality. But I want to be really clear, I didn't understand Pacific Islander until I got language from these black feminist thought leaders. Folks who were so so brilliant about naming what it means to walk around in a world that is both racist and sexist. And then, through an ethnic studies class that was on time on American History, right? I'm a first year Cal and it also meant I went kindergarten through 12th grade not hearing a single thing about Samoans. And had to get to my freshman year of college to see anything about us and having a lot of critical questions about why that is right. And everything leading to one thing or another. I was like, oh, well, there's not enough of us in higher education. So, well, why aren't there enough of us in higher education? I know. Brilliant smart, talented Pacific Islanders. So you start getting into like the systemic and institutional barriers around. So there was a lot of critical race theory consumption that happened for me really in gaining an elitist language for things that I experienced my entire life, right? And then after getting black feminist thought, then being able to read about Pacific Islanders through Epeli Hau'ofa and Sia Fiegel and Haunani Kay Trask and so many ancestors and elders who really blazed a trail around things, who became definite, and more recently, Teresia Teaiwa. So I say that, and there's also a piece of it where I would love to say that there was like this drive that came from this really positive place, but a lot of it was just anger. Like that initial phase of building your political consciousness where you wake up and realize how up is, oh, man like, what can I do? And then sort of moving throughout these other phases of political consciousness building where then I'm like, oh, but there are ways that I participate in the systems that disenfranchise us, but also that internal work and still being there. And so even most of my organizing and like even professional career has actually been in multicultural spaces outside of the Pacific Islander community. And it's really only with EPIC that I've been able to deeply engage in that. And the irony of being called Palangi or the Samoan word for white my entire life and then never feeling Pacific Islander enough and now being charged as the leader of a national Pacific Islander organization that is frequently asked to define PI, so, you know, that is the irony of the universe for me.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:09:07] There was so much, so much there. Our listeners cannot hear me like banging on the table and snapping and, but, again, you are another guest who has affirmed the absolute importance of ethnic studies in our education, in our process, and you are another guest who has affirmed the absolute necessity of black feminist thought, like in all of our upbringing and conscious awareness rising. And like maybe there's a case study here in season one [laughs] that's formulating on how we became the educators and organizers that we are. Gabriel, you were a social studies classroom teacher, and then moved into taking on union labor work like heavily, what was some of your motivation or inspiration to make the move from the classroom and step heavy into union labor organizing?   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:10:16] If I'm keeping it 100 percent real, I didn't want to leave the classroom. I loved the classroom. I still love the classroom. It was the foundation of just my passion in specifically the Bergenfield community, which we've talked about in the past episodes has a larger Filipino population. So not only was education, just a pathway to be able to help uplift, engage my people, young folks in my community. But the union organizing space in Bergenfield was also formative in allowing me to engage on a broader scale. So that said, when making the transition out of the classroom, which was a difficult decision, to step into the union organizing space on a statewide level, it was really just with the possibility of being able to support educators on a larger scale and have a broader impact and specifically in my role in professional development, I consider this the only type of full time union work that I would leave the classroom for because it's the closest to the classroom. And in professional development, I think there's this old school perception on PD that's really sit and receive canned PowerPoints. And I feel like this conversation around organizing, there's actually a really fascinating exploration between facilitation, education, and organizing. They all pull from the similar skill sets, right? Sharing resources, bringing people together in shared learning, collective understanding, trying to figure out how the collective wisdom can allow us to just transform the community spaces, the up society in which we live. All of the things, Tavae set it off so we can do that she established some new rules. But to keep it relatively brief, I would say the professional development role and the opportunity to organize on a larger scale is the only reason that I considered leaving the classroom.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:12:30] I know you, you touched on this already, but I'll go ahead and ask it and I'll ask both of you and I'll toss it to Tavae first. In what ways does your culture and your identity inform the work or vice versa?   Tavae Samuelu: [00:12:46] I think that it always has. There was a point at which I thought I needed to come to EPIC and sometimes that's still true. That I needed to come to EPIC in order to give primacy to my Pacific Islander identity, I had spoken earlier about most of my professional career and even like, as a student organizing was done in multicultural spaces that were, you know, in, in this sort of umbrella way identified as black and brown. But they weren't spaces where I was PI, I was like, you know, most often a woman of color, more broadly, a person of color, but there was never really an understanding of Pacific Islander. Whether people knew it or not, everything I was doing was in a very Pacific Islander way. From the way I speak to things that people would have identified as very humble. I was like, oh, that's just how PIs do it, right? That there's a protocol to things. The deference to elders, the, I love my best friends says, all I do is quote people [laughs]. But there's this part to me where it's like, everybody quotes people I just cite my sources. But there's a part to it too where even citing your sources is very Pacific Islander in that you are naming the genealogy of something, of a thought, of a practice, of a story, right? That you are always going back to the roots of where you came from and that conclusion. And also like a lot of ways where things that I was recognized for was in storytelling. It's like, oh, that's a really good. And folks not realizing like, oh, that's, that comes from me being Pacific Islander. Like that comes from me being Samoan. Not in spite of, but because of it. And so now there's a lot of ways where the work is defining Pacific Islander. And this other really interesting piece that EPIC does leadership development. That means we work with a lot of young people and the vast majority of our young people are second, third, fourth generation, right? Fairly removed from their indigeneity. And because of that, growing up in diaspora, in particular, growing up in the U. S., that there's always this thirst for Pacific Islander culture, and that's what they come to us for but also this notion and kind of this living conversation about what is PI, right? And that we ask them, and then many of them not feeling Pacific Islander enough, like that being the through line. But when you ask, like, what is Pacific Islander, is advocacy Pacific Islander, is education Pacific Islander? And oftentimes hearing from them, really troubling narratives that they've internalized about what PI is, and then having to untether and tease out, like, where did you get that from? Where did that story come from? Did it come from PIs? Very often, not, right? That, that what it means to have to constantly interrogate the ways that white supremacy controls how you understand yourself, controls your story, right? And so, you know, what does it mean that to our young people, that being PI means automatically and inherently means being part of the military, because that's what it means to be a warrior culture. Or that being PI is playing football or that being like that many of the narratives that they had taken to be factual were also grounded in the consumption of their bodies and wanting to trouble that notion. Right? And then also empower them to participate in the creation of a new narrative. So we sort of sit at this place where our work is to both remember culture, spread that remembering, and also watch it evolve and empower our young people to participate in that evolution and feel ownership of it.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:17:05] I'm just gonna have a real moment right now on this episode and just say I wish I had a rewind button right now just to run that back because I'm trying to process some of the knowledge you just dropped and thinking about the ways that our culture and identity inform the ways we show up in spaces, specifically the ways that our perception is grounded through the lens of white supremacy culture and the consumption of our bodies is the way that you framed it, but how do we transform those narratives to be grounded in our own indigenous authentic cultural lens. So just Tavae, thank you for jumping in there. I was thinking about this question in what ways does my culture and identity inform my work? And I'm going to keep it real with you that I'm still exploring that right now. I recognize that the knowledge of self, the knowledge of Filipino history is something that I am becoming more familiar with and drawing more connections with in my adult life. Of course, being Filipino, having the cultural roots be present in my life, but also being a first generation person in a predominantly white suburban area, assimilation is something that is very much the reality for first generation folks. It wasn't until college, it was an educator, a professor Osei, on the literature of African peoples that started to help spark that critical race consciousness and sent me down a journey to become more race conscious and explore that. So to respond in short, the cultural identity, I'm still exploring that now, but I will say this. that the more that I learn, the more connections that I'm starting to realize. Being that I'm now heavily involved in the union spaces, and that's been a big part of my journey recently, I've come to learn about the farm workers and the Filipino organizers across Hawaii and the West Coast that have been pivotal in American history, labor organizing that I wasn't aware of. It was actually a moment of pride as I learned about that through APALA so APALA was one of the places where I was educated about this history and I'm realizing a lot of the connections that I'm making in my people, cultural roots.There's something there that I'm still unpacking right now, still exploring right now, and that's part of this Continental Shifts podcast. It's a real time exploration of how our culture and identity inform the ways we show up now. So that's, that's how I think about it in this moment.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:19:56] I love that and I think even as you were saying that what comes up for me is a lot of stuff too. That's also what's unique about EPIC is because I know our young people everywhere else they go will tell them that culture is a deficit. Right. It's the thing that you need to put away in order to succeed. And that we're also really clear of like, well, we are asking them to define success. It's not about aspiring to whiteness. Right. That I'm not trying to replace American exceptionalism with PI exceptionalism. And this other piece around culture is like, culture is not a costume. But it's most definitely a uniform for me, right? Like that when I go to the Capitol, if I'm lobbying in Sacramento, if I'm in D. C., I'm wearing my mom's fulakasi so that everybody can see, right? So to bring her with me as like a physical reminder. But also so my people see me there, right? Like a pulakasi, you wear it for ceremony. You also wear it to do faius or work when you're in service, right? So if I'm wearing a pulakasi, you know that I'm there for teltua. You know that I'm there to be in service, and that signaling to our young people, and then like the ceremony part of it, right? There's a sacredness to it. So if I'm in it, you also know, like, that you know what I'm there for. You know I'm about that business if we're, if we're in it. And you know, it tells other people, like, yo, this is how much we belong in the capital that I didn't put on, you know, I didn't put on some pantsuit or a blazer or whatever the case so that white people will recognize me. I put on a fulakasi so you all could see me. Right? And I think, and I've talked to this to a couple of folks about it, right? Like when Toni Morrison talks about Invisible Man and asked this question of like invisible to who? Like, what do I care if whiteness sees me? Like, the first time white people saw us, they decided, like, we were savage and they needed to take our land from us. It's actually not safe for white people to see me. Like, I just need our folks to see each other, right? And this other piece too, around narratives and story and culture, right? Like, that's the importance of APALA, of EPIC, of, of Ethnic Studies, is like, it'll give you the stories white supremacy never wanted you to know about yourself, right? That, like, white supremacy will tell people about the Aloha spirit, and that, like, Kanaka are just so grateful for tourism to have you on their land. It's like, yo, my favorite stories about Native Hawaiians are when they killed Captain Cook, cause that just like stepped out of line and tried to take too much right.   Like, those are my favorite stories. And so, you know, they'll tell you about us being warriors to recruit our young people for empire, like, yo, if you're gonna talk about words, talk about the Polynesian Panthers who stood toe to toe, inspired by the Black Panther Party to surveil the cops who were harassing, deporting and doing all of this up to our community. Or like tell the stories about our healers, right? Big Pharma will copyright things that we've been using to treat and heal our people for years so that it's not accessible on our lands. Like those are the stories where I'm just like, yo, I need all of our folks to know more of this. And I think even to that note Estella and I got to, after that APALA workshop got to reconnect through LE GaFa. And LE GaFa is also really important, like all of these language revitalization programs that are coming up, because even in a Fa'a Samoa or like a Samoan context, the three pillars of identity are land, family, and language, right? And so many of our young people come to us, you know, if you're in diaspora, that means you, you're divorced from your land. Many have lost language and then family is complicated. Family is real complicated [laughs]. And so how did we also become that space of redefining Samoa?   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:23:36] Oh, sis. So much has been said, but when you were speaking earlier, I thought back to how I felt when I first met you. And for the first time I was seen by my sister. You know what I mean? Like, I have never been in space with other Samoan women and felt at home until then. And then in thinking about LE GaFa and why I chose to take the class at 30, trying to learn a language is hard at 30, trying to learn Samoan at 30 oof! It is one of the biggest challenges I've ever accepted in my life. But every time we are in class, things just feel like they were already in my bones. And I didn't have a name for it or I didn't know what it was. So folks are always telling me, Stella, you're a storyteller. And you know, obviously I'm a theater major. Ended up in storytelling. And it's definitely a part of my practice as an educator. But like, now I know, well, that was in my bones, that is my lineage, that's my heritage, that's my ancestry. From both sides, you know, you know what I mean? I'm Nigerian and Samoan, I get it strong from both sides of who I am. I just love holding on to that thought that all of these things that someone tried to rip away from me, tell me was not okay, they couldn't because it is deeply innate. It is literally in… in me and it cannot be taken. And so my journey throughout my life to it was just that. It was something that was misplaced and I just had to find it again and I'm happy that I am there and to what Gabriel said earlier, that was definitely a reason why we chose to start this podcast because I can see it on my social media feeds, that there is a thirst, especially among young Samoans, to find out more about what's going on, I now have so many, oh, Samoan daily words and Samoan proverb, you know what I mean? Like so many folks I'm following and people are also trying to learn the language, I'm meeting and making connection with random Samoan artists on Instagram who now are in the LE GaFa class. And like everyone is now connected through social media. Because all of us, like you said, we are living in diaspora and those three parts of ourselves, we are now having to find. They're misplaced and we're in search of them and are lucky and blessed to be able to find each other so that we can rediscover those pieces of ourselves.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:26:09] Tavae, when you were talking about the different stories that aren't told that should be told, you got me thinking about Lapu Lapu in the Philippine Islands, the chieftain that defeated, Magellan and stemmed off the first wave of colonizers coming through to the Philippines. I didn't learn about that in my, in my fourth grade class when I had to do a history research project. I learned about Magellan discovering the Philippine islands and that's not the story. Tell me the story about Gabriela Silang and all of the Filipino revolutionaries. So I was feeling what you were saying earlier. And also, with the deficit narratives that are placed on us, Dr. Tara Yasso, who introduced the Community Cultural Wealth Framework, the idea to challenge the dominant culture's narrative, the deficit thinking around us, and recognize the value-based, asset-based, capital-based thinking of cultural wealth that we're bringing to spaces, that's real.   Swati Rayasam: [00:27:07] You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:27:22] Tavae, I do have a question about your organizing work with EPIC. That's a dope name, by the way just got to shout that out. But what success have you and EPIC had in organizing across PI communities?   Tavae Samuelu: [00:27:37] Credit for the name goes to Ono Waifale. You know, so EPIC started in 2009 by a group of young Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander leaders, mostly in higher ed, Ono, and a lot of it's sort of like the seeds of it planted, in the Pacific Islander leadership pipeline. So there's like a lot of hands that went into building it. Ono Waifale was one of the young people who went through that. And so the name EPIC comes from him. You know, something about the word success gives me trepidation. Like I have a thing about it, and maybe this is also me having a hard time just discerning between, humility and insecurity of like when you call something a success that people come and like want to hold you accountable to that. There are things that I feel good about, things that I feel proud about and. You know, it's my own recovering perfectionism that has me hesitant about it. That has me like, Oh, if I call that a success, there are so many things that I would have nitpicked about it, that I would done differently. You know, I'm always going to say the young people are my favorite part of this work of EPIC as an organization. On like that Huey P Newton, like, the revolution is always in the hands of young people. There's also a way that they are the best compass and litmus test, right? In that audacity that young people have of it could be better. And I'm just like, Oh, that's dope. Like, cause I think there's also a lot of ways where you know, I'm always an aspiring radical elder and trying to figure out how I can be that radical elder right now. But recognizing, a lot of the markers for adulthood and maturity are about sometimes, like, how much closer you get it to status quo, to like being more served by existing systems. And so there's a way in which I'm going to age out of this role. And I'm always looking for the young person who's going to take it on and keep up that mantle of demanding more, right. Of keeping us accountable to that. And so I think it's always the young people who are like over inspiring and also so brilliant and have so much heart around this and are such a good reminder because there's also ways in which they're closer to the problem because of their youth, right? And so because they're closer to the problem, they have more solutions and they're also a better way of vetting the viability of something that I might think is so great, but I'm doing all this grass top of what do I know if I'm spending all my time talking to funders and elected officials?   Like, I need the young people who tell me stories about I couldn't do homework because I had to do files for my mom and my grandma. And then I also had to take care of my little siblings and like, that's the kind of where I'm like, Oh, that's actually what should be dictating our policy agenda, right? Of like, how young people are thriving in this world, right? Because they're always going to be the marker of a healthy society, right? And that because they are part of that most vulnerable group, because they inherit so much . And then also the ways that we're developing young people into adult allies. Like, how are these young people also then looking at themselves of like, oh, let me be that, like, that OG that all the younger folks can come to as well. Like that they're preparing themselves also to take up the mantle and they feel good about it. Like that they feel ready and maybe if not ready, that they feel supported like, when they take that on, all the adults aren't going to disappear. And then there's also like a relativity to it, right? Like, in many spaces, I'm the youngest ED, or I'm the youngest “leader” whatever that means. And so there's me kind of also feeling young in that way, but then sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm the adult in the room [laughs]. Lamenting that ugh I gotta be the grownup. So I think that piece too is a weird in between that, that I'm in, but like I I think those are the parts of EPIC that feel good. And I think this speaks to the API aspect of this episode and where we're going to be diving deeper in. It's always a success to me when I've got more accomplices and allies for the Pacific Islander community. Right. When I have more people beyond PI's that are asking about us, that are fighting for us. Right. And that's a solidarity and then, you know, this is also an inspiration and something I like feel good about the direction that we're moving in is being really explicit about our organization being pro black and pro Indigenous and anti racist. Not because it's trending, because Imma be in this, [laughs] like even after it stops trending, but because it also signals to folks that we're a safe place to land. That if we say it out loud, you can hold us accountable to it, but you also know that you can come here and talk about and go there with us.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:32:48] What you said about young people, I think, is my favorite part about being a classroom teacher. It is, I think, exactly for that reason. And I can sit and sit and lesson plan, lesson plan, lesson plan, get to class, and kids are like, nah. Now you, that's corny. You thought it was, you thought it was great, but Miss, let me tell you, but then I love that they feel absolutely comfortable telling me that it's not as dope as I thought it was [laughs]. And then we, you know, I just let them take over the lesson at that point. What are the critical issues that you foresee us needing to mobilize around? Maybe it's right now or in the immediate future.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:33:28] Yeah, I guess what's present for me based on this conversation has me thinking about education, thinking about the stories and the narratives that are out there, and thinking about decolonizing curriculum as a primary frontline issue, but I actually need to shout out Kai, who was one of our guests, that decolonizing curriculum, if we flip that framing to indigenizing curriculum, is perhaps a better approach in terms of how we are more historically and culturally responsive in our approach. Why is that important? I think it's important to mobilize because I'm starting to recognize that the narratives that are being shared throughout public education in this country really do have a major impact on perpetuating white supremacy culture and continuing the violence that we're seeing. So, the obvious physical violence, but the forms of emotional violence and trauma that are just part of the mythology of the ways this nation state perpetuates white supremacy, patriarchal culture, capitalist system at large. So, I feel like part of my educator roots always calls me to that. But I think because Tavae and Estella, you're making sure we're grounded in understanding the youth perspectives that's present on my right now as a critical issue. And that's also going to be now and forever, perhaps, right? Oh wait, no, actually, Tavae, I'm gonna take some learning from what you shared at the beginning. The empire, when it falls, right? We're preparing for when it falls. So I'll just, I'll leave it there.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:35:17] I think right now, like, educators across the nation, an immediate charge is to pass ethnic, like, ethnic studies has to be it everywhere, across the board, preschool to 14, like, mandatory, we've got to make sure that ethnic studies, um, so whatever state association across all of our unions. When ethnic studies ends up on your legislative body on the floor, yes on ethnic studies and push it and make sure that, it is what it's supposed to be and not some watered down, BS where you've taken out words like anti blackness and white supremacy. Let's make sure that. Every child has access to that, and it is what it's supposed to be because, like you said, I'm not trying to hear about Magellan discovering some he didn't discover in the first place. I'm trying to learn my whole truth, and it'd be great if I could get it, you know, starting at preschool instead of having to go, like Tavae put it earlier, I had to get that elite language in order to name the stuff. Like, I shouldn't have to go all the way to Graduate school, undergrad to figure out who the hell I am and then do something with that. So ethnic studies, I think, is the thing that needs to happen like right now.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:36:43] Well, I guess I'm also thinking about this ethnic studies piece too, because I fully support it and I know there's like a save PI studies coalition full of brilliant, like PI educators, also like very much Manawahine which folks should definitely follow. I think there's this piece too, where if you're going to mandate ethnic studies, I also need a pipeline for teachers of color and not just a pipeline, but Right, to support and retain teachers of color. Because there's this concern that I have too of what does it mean that most teachers are white? Like that's the other part, right? I was like, oh, white people are, I've never met a white person who teaches ethnic studies well. Never. I don't even know if it's possible, but you'd have to break yourself to do that, right? And also to think back of, like, the origins of ethnic studies in the 1969, the Third World Liberation Front. What it was created to respond to, the fact that it was also meant to be a college, not a department of, what does it mean to do ethnic studies in biology, right? Like, what does it mean to do ethnic studies as a lens through which we observe everything, right? Because if you have ethnic studies, you actually don't need US history anymore. Like, if you have ethnic studies, you don't need European history anymore, because ethnic studies is all of that, right? It's all of that. It also, you know, I agree, Ethnic studies it taught me a set of values and a way to look at the world and not just stories, right? It made me question all the things of like, what is essentially like the propaganda that our young people receive in formal education spaces [laughs]. And so I say this too, of like, yes, absolutely, all of that, it should be accessible, it should be invested in, it should be from us, there should be a naming of the fact that the US and education systems are, traditional education systems are invested in and fans of revisionist white supremacist history and that there's simultaneous campaigns that need to happen. And I defer to you all in your expertise and brilliance as educators. Right.   Every issue is a critical issue right now. Everything. You know, especially like COVID-19 and Pacific Islanders, I think in the context of this episode, in this podcast, this conversation, I'm at an impasse with Asian Pacific Islander or API, the terminology as an aggregate has been around since, you know, 1970s ish, and for me, because it's been around that long, it means that, API spaces and organizations have had since the 1970s to figure it out. So we're in 2021 right now and I'm having conversations with folks about what about PI and like there's a request for patience that just frankly is not fair. There's also just, like, this dynamic that doesn't get investigated. So when I talk about being at an impasse, it's that PIs already don't do API, that data disaggregation is actually just a request for data to catch up to the ways we already organize ourselves as communities API is a false promise and a site of erasure for many communities, not just Pacific Islanders, right? That Southeast Asian, South Asians, Filipinos as well get erased in these things, right? That even under API, we were still actually just being held responsible for a majority East Asian representation. And that it doesn't investigate the inequitable dynamic that exists between and AA and PI so this impasse is that the work that we do in advocacy is in recognition of the fact that power and resources are still distributed and disseminated through API. So we have a critical conversation to have as a community because PIs are already not using PI, and it's actually Asian Americans that use API and that it doesn't feel very good, these accountability conversations of calling folks in of like, how can we be good relatives? How can we talk about, because there's also like, you know, Asian American spaces aren't talking about colonization, like the PI as a colonized people, all the forms of racism that we experience being facilitated through that means, and, you know, if we're real, that some of our PI nations are colonized by Asian Americans, like not American, but like Asian nations, right? That there's like some healing that needs to happen. And so this, I don't know that it's a critical issue so much as like a critical conversation that needs to occur in our communities that is inclusive of PIs. Cause I also know I come across folks who are like, I say API cause I was taught that that was inclusive. And I was like, I bet you a PI didn't tell you that. So, yeah, you know, I think about that in the context of this episode, but there's this other piece too of like, You know, my family and I had COVID back in August, and so that was its own, I don't know that I say wake up call, because I, like, what's the humble way to say, like, I've been awake? It was asking this question of, like, what facilitated our survival, right? And a lot of actually what came to me was around labor. Was around union organizing and those wins of like we survived because I got a livable wage. I have paid sick leave I have like health insurance I have all of these things that I'm really clear were won by unions were made possible by labor and they're treated as privileges right or even like speaking English Like, all of these things that I was just like sitting with, like, oh, those are actually now shaping our demands of how we are going to move our advocacy work, or, you know, that we're housed, all of these things where I was like, oh, these are actually, there's not one critical issue, because the insidious nature of racism and poverty is that it could manifest itself in so many ways in our community that lead to premature death, and in that, like, Ruthie Wilson Gilmore way where she defines racism as the set of systems that lead to premature death. So that being like, oh, those are all the critical issues for me.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:43:12] We need to, we, we're going to have to like come up with a syllabus for this episode, like to drop this [laughs] episode next week that has everyone cited all the articles and all the things listed so that we can like, yeah, I'm disseminating a syllabus with this episode. And I think that you were, you were right in that. First of all the disaggregation of data is something that is a theme that has come up on nearly every episode too in this podcast. It was another reason why, when Gabriel and I met, that was one of the first conversations we had because I have been very vocal in our caucus that there is some healing and reconciliation needs to happen. There is a reckoning that needs to happen. We need to deal with the anti blackness and et cetera, et cetera. In our caucus, right? And the fact that this caucus is meant to represent too many dang people and you try to squeeze us all together and make, like, all of our issues one issue, and it just does not work like that for all of the reasons that you said, but it doesn't mean you said, how can we be good relatives? It doesn't mean that moving forward, we can't be good relatives and figure this out. I think you're right. We've got to stop and have the conversation, before we can really move forward. And it's probably gonna be a long conversation. It's going to be a long conversation and one that happens continuously and in various spaces, but it definitely needs to happen moving forward aside from what you've already shared with us, what do you think it will take to increase the visibility of our communities and mobilize PI people around some of the critical issues that you've already talked about.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:45:08] So Estella, your question has me thinking, and the energy from this episode in particular has me fired up, if I'm keeping it real, that if we're talking about visibility for our communities, obviously organizing is at the core of that, making sure that we lift up and create spaces for our people to come together and discover that collective wisdom within our own respective communities. But the fire that you all lit right now has me thinking that just being unapologetically and fearlessly courageous in the face of white supremacy culture within our own spaces, whether that's in the organizations, institutions, businesses, all of the places that we exist. I'm recognizing actually in this moment that one of the things that Tavae said earlier about not being seen by white supremacy institutions is actually safer, which is also very true in the way that things manifest. But what I'm feeling right now is increasing visibility. We're in a moment where, we're in this moment where our ancestors have prepared us to do battle in the ways that we are in our generation to try to disrupt the colonizers in our own respective ways. So those are my thoughts.   Tavae Samuelu: [00:46:34] Well, you know, I think the part of your question that I'm grappling with is this visibility piece, right? Because there are a lot of ways where I feel like our community is actually hyper visible, right? Like we've got The Rock, we've got Jason Momoa, we've got like all of these like really visible figures in our community who are also like very loud about our culture. And so there's this piece where I sit with is it that we need to be visible or is it like in this, man, I don't want to cite Chimamanda Adichie because she's like super TERFsy uh, and she had this Ted talk about like the danger of a single story and that actually, what, what troubles our visibility is the community is the singularity of our story here in the US, how there's like one thing that people get to know about. And I think, and maybe it's better to think about Stuart Hall and how he talks about there's no such thing as good or bad representation, because good and bad is constantly changing, right? Even the word bad in some contexts means good. In that sense, that actually what you're looking for as a community is a multitude of representation so that nothing becomes the single story of your visibility. Of how you're seen and understood, right? That that's also like, what white supremacy gets that white people get to be poor and wealthy. They get to be teachers and doctors and criminals, right? And even when they're criminal, we make it Godfather and like, glorify that criminality and so I think that's the part of our community is of wanting that to of, like, how do we get to see ourselves everywhere so that there isn't a limitation around how we mobilize. I also think, and I think this is always the conversation around representation of, like, how do I feel represented? Like you know, I never felt, Tulsi Gabbard is a Samoan woman, and I never felt represented by her like, that's not my people. And so, even that representation piece of, and I've stated this before, of like, yo, if it's not pro Black and pro Indigenous and anti racist, it doesn't represent me. Like, those are not my people.   Like, I'm not throwing down with people who aren't trying to get free. And so if I'm thinking about representation to invisibility, like I want our folks to be exposed and see as many examples of freedom as possible. That the other thing about young people and like language and all this stuff is young people already, really anyone like has a sense of what is not fair or doesn't feel right. That our young people actually, and many of us as marginalized communities, are experts in oppression. Like, you don't need to teach us what up looks like, because we've experienced it our whole lives. And so what does it mean to develop and invest in and build a whole pipeline and lineage of folks who are experts in liberation, who have so deeply exercised that muscle that they don't know anything else, that they only know how to be free. Like, I think that's the part where I'm thinking about, like, that's the kind of visibility I want to see. That's the kind of that I hope that our young people, that I, like, not just our young people, that I also need. And that I also am seeking so much, especially during this pandemic and always as somebody who struggles with anxiety and depression is, you know, on that Miriam Kaba, like hope is a discipline. I am internalizing more and more what that means. You to have to exercise hope as a discipline, as a muscle that needs to grow. I mean, I'll share this with you all, like, thank you Stella for saying happy birthday. It is, just probably one of the most difficult birthdays I've ever had. It is hard to age during a pandemic. In particular, like, because it's so macabre right now. But also because I've been wading through a lot of survivor's guilt. For the last couple of months, I'm just kind of like wondering why other people didn't make it and I did and so I have like a systemic analysis of all the privileges that kept me alive, but I'm still sitting here feeling guilty about making it or about surviving COVID thus far. And then sitting on a birthday, then having, like, every wish just felt really warm, but also sharp. And having to, like, say thank you to every single one to, like, exercise a muscle of gratitude. Like, try to replace some of that guilt with gratitude. But all that to say that I think this is also the direction that EPIC is going in, that like, when I think about these critical issues that it's like translating this thought experiment into tangible action around stuff. I'm sorry, I turned it off, I just completely lost you all.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:51:53] No, I'm, I am with you, I was, y'all, like, I'm. dizzy from just shaking my head. Yes, I legit got lightheaded a second ago. Like, I was just shaking my head. What you just said, I was just like, isn't that the dream? Like, isn't that what we were supposed to be fighting for all those years ago and still today? A whole generation of people who don't know what it is to experience oppression. Like, that's the dream. Like, that's the dream. That, that is what we want and so what you were saying about visibility, you know, I'm, I constantly am struggling, like, with, I think, yeah, The Rock is there, but like, he's a wrestler, he's a movie star, you know what I mean? Like, it's always that same story. And while I appreciate him, I do, because being Black and being someone I always felt like a damn unicorn and The Rock was the only one who was there, who existed other than me and my brothers. And so I do appreciate him and the other celebrities or stars that we have to look to. But like you said, I want where we get to be. Any and everything and all of those things all at the same time.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:53:19] I'm not sure if this makes it to the episode, but I have to express my gratitude for you just coming through and blazing this whole conversation. And really, I feel like there's just so much that I can't wait to. process and think through. I feel like the impact in this conversation alone is just gonna reverberate not only in my experience, but also our listeners that are tuning in. So Tavae, thank you so much.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:53:47] Recovering perfectionist, that phrase. I'm walking away with it. Actually, it just posted something on like characteristics of white supremacy and the ways in which I was thinking about the ways in which as a theater educator, I have been guilty of perpetuating characteristics of white supremacy because it's so much a part of the way theater folk we do things. And so I was thinking like, but no wait, theater folk and artists, we also have the skills to dismantle white supremacy. It's also in the way that we do things so we do know better and when we know better we should do better so that recovering perfectionist is like in me and it also speaks to something that Gabriel has shared earlier about, you know, assimilation and being a first gen and that very typical immigrant story or child of immigrants like you're going to go to school get straight A's and essay like that show. And then your only options are doctor and lawyer. And don't come talk to me about anything else. So, you know, that that's definitely always been a part of. Me too, is it being in the diaspora and first gen American born, and always feeling like whatever I've done is not good enough. And, but then I'm like, but in whose eyes, whose eyes is it not good enough? And if it's in mine, then I need to sit with that and work past that. So recovering perfectionist, that's where I'm at.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:55:14] My favorite line from today was aspiring radical elder. I'm holding on to that one. I was feeling that.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:55:22] I wrote that one down too. Fa'a fatai te le lava. Thank you for listening.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:55:28] Salamat. Thank you for listening.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:55:29] We want to thank our special guest Tavae, one more time for rapping with us tonight. We really appreciate you.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:55:36] Continental Shifts Podcast can be found on Podbean, Apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:55:43] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archived footage and grab some merch on our site.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:55:48] Join our mailing list for updates at CONSHIFTSPodcast.com That's C O N S H I F T S podcast dot com. Follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:06] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:56:10] Keep rocking with us, fam. We're gonna make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, and together.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:16] Fa'afetai. Thanks again. Deuces.   Gabriel Tanglao: [00:56:19] Peace. One love.   Swati Rayasam: [00:56:20] Thanks so much for tuning into apex express and an extra special thank you to Gabe and Estella for allowing us to feature your incredible podcast. Like I said at the top, you can find other episodes of the ConShifts podcast on our site at kpfa dot org backslash programs, backslash apex express. Or even better, you can go to the ConShifts site to listen on Podbean or wherever podcasts can be found. And make sure to follow them to keep up with where they go next. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We think all of you listeners out there keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Miko Lee, along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Kiki Rivera, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Cheryl Truong, and me, Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a great night. The post APEX Express – 8.1.24 – Continental Shifts Organizing & More appeared first on KPFA.

Welcome to Season 4, Episode 30! This is an ICYMI (In Case You Missed It) encore rebroadcast of The History of Chop Suey Fonts from S03E18. It was a favorite of ours to research because it amazes us how something not created by Asian Pacific Islanders has become so closely aligned to our businesses.  We've all seen them. Typefaces that signal an ethnic establishment. For businesses, especially restaurants that sell Asian food, it's not unusual to see the use of a “Chop Suey Font”. These fonts have also been used for politics, advertising, media, and other businesses. Whether named Chop Suey, Wonton, or any number of mimicry typefaces, using these fonts sends a message that it's a place that's exotic, foreign, yet somehow accessible. We discuss the history of these fonts and whether they're racist.  If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or social media links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com. Segments 00:25 Intro 00:59 The History of Chop Suey Fonts

Welcome to Season 4, Episode 27 and Happy Canada Day (if you're reading this on July 1)! In this episode, we share a conversation with Chad Soon, an educator from Vernon, British Columbia, and the author of the book The Longest Shot: How Larry Kwong Changed the Face of Hockey. The book is written for middle grade students… which is a great age for getting started reading diverse stories… and it's illustrated by Amy Qi. The Longest Shot is available for purchase in both hardcover and Epub formats through Orca Book Publishers, Amazon, Apple Books, and other booksellers.  In the book, Chad has created an engaging retelling of Larry's life, the racism he faced, his various accomplishments, and his positive attitude throughout his challenges and triumphs. Chad also shares stories of how he learned about Larry, what it was like becoming friends with him, why Larry deserves to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame, which other players of Asian Pacific Islander descent are inspiring, and so much more. As Chad mentions in our conversation, Larry Kwong's career and life are defined by more than just the single shift he was allowed to play for the New York Rangers in 1948. You can learn more about The Longest Shot through the Instagram account @larrykwongbook and more about Chad through his personal account @soondatkwong. We highly recommend getting a copy of The Longest Shot for yourself, your kids, and anyone who wants to be inspired by a story of success in the face of racism. If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or social media links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express, Host Miko Lee speaks with artivists from the upcoming exhibition at Edge on the Square opening this Saturday June 29 and running through February 2025!   TRANSCRIPT Walking Stories: Artivists POV   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:34] Good evening this is Miko Lee and welcome to Apex Express. We are so happy to have you with us. We are going to be talking about something really personal to me tonight. We are talking about the new interactive exhibition at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown. The whole exhibition is called Walking Stories and it is stories from our Asian American community. And we invite you to join us. It opens June 29th and runs all the way through December. Opening night, June 29th is going to be interactive performances and amazing little goodies so we really invite you to join us for opening, but if you can make it that night, we're running all the way through the end of December. Okay, so a little bit of background. Some of you might know that I have been a host on Apex Express for the past seven and a half years, and it has truly been a delight and a joy. As part of that time, I learned that Apex Express is part of a network of Asian American progressive groups. That's called AACRE, which is short for Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. And about two and a half years ago, I joined the staff of AACRE, which has been such a joy to be around colleagues that share the same values and passions and beliefs in supporting and uplifting our community. For the past year, we have been working on a narrative strategy, really trying to reframe how Asian Americans are portrayed in the media, how we're perceived within our own community. We were initially going to do this with the Pacific Islander community as well. But in talking to our sister colleagues, they are going through their own process of a PI narrative strategy and I totally respect that. At some point we will merge and join those voices together. So right now we're focusing on Asian American stories. Through the past year through wonderful funding from San Francisco foundation's Bay Area Creative Corps we were actually able to fund approximately 37 different artists and embed them in different AACRE groups to be able to create narratives that resonate with their own communities. So that in this exhibit Walking Stories, we're going to hear stories about Hmong folks and formerly incarcerated folks, folks that are queer and trans and folks that have stories to share, because we all have important stories to share. Our exhibit is inviting folks to think about how they can get involved, how they can share their own stories, how they can join us in this collective movement for rewriting our history of the kind of silent, quiet model minority that sits in the background that's used as the wedge issue for larger things like reparations and affirmative action and really reframes that and brings back our Asian American activist past because we know that is who we are. That is our history going back from the first time that we came into this country. We invite folks in the community to join us to see more about who these stories are, to find out, to get involved to see what resonates with them and even what doesn't resonate with them. But really join us in this conversation. So tonight I'm really pleased to be talking with just a few of the artists that are in Walking Stories. So that you can get some insight into their process and how they made the piece that they're going to be sharing.   The exhibit itself will be at Edge on the Square in San Francisco Chinatown. When you walk in, you are going to see this timeline of lanterns hanging from the ceiling. That's about an Asian American activist history. You're going to see a really cool, nourishing power piece, which we're going to talk to the artists about, that is about how potlucks were used as a tool for queer and trans organizing. You are going to learn more about Hmong dance. And what does that look like, and what does it feel like in your own body? You're going to learn about ancestors, the power of our ancestors and how we can bring that to help us in our healing and moving forward. You're going to see in the exhibit about a Hmong story cloth reimagined with a modern perspective, you're going to see stories of south Asians activists and what they represent. And what does it mean to be a south Asian Muslim in America today? You're going to hear some of these stories. You're going to see them. We hope that you'll experience them. Then we hope that you'll learn more and find out about what we're doing and how you can get involved. So join me on this little journey through some of the artivists—that's artists that are also activists—that are part of our exhibit called Walking Stories. Come board. Join us. Welcome Hà Trần to Apex Express. We're so happy to have you with us. Trần Châu Hà: [00:05:40] Thank you for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:05:41] So you are amazing artist, but I want to start and go back and for you to tell us who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:05:52] Ooh, oh my god, that's such like a big question. I guess my people are the people at Asian Prisoner Support Committee. I come from like a lineage of like Vietnamese refugees, and I think about like the ways that our communities have been impacted by the legacy of imperialism, which includes like incarceration, deportation, and things of that nature. I would say my community are folks who are impacted by, those kinds of pipelines and violences, Southeast Asian folks broadly.   Miko Lee: [00:06:14] And what legacy do you carry with you from them?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:06:18] I think the easy answer is like resilience clearly. To exist and survive under so many different violences and still move forth and create such beautiful communities.   Miko Lee: [00:06:25] Hà how did you get started working with Asian Prisoner Support Committee?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:06:29] It actually started from an interpersonal relationship. My best friend who also works at the organization now. They actually explained to me that a APSC was doing all this work in regards to like stopping the prison to deportation pipeline, how like so many of our Southeast Asian American community members were impacted by this kind of incarceration and things of that nature. At that point, it just became my political home after many, many years.   Miko Lee: [00:06:50] Thanks for sharing that. Then tell us about the work that you have in the new exhibit that is opening up called Walking Stories. Can you tell us the title of your piece and then describe it for us?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:07:01] The piece I'm making is a comic called We Was Girls Together. It's a quote from Sula by Toni Morrison. The comic is about my friend Maria Legarda. She's a re-entry coordinator at the Asian Prisoner Support Committee. She's also a Filipino immigrant who's facing deportation to the Philippines now after she was incarcerated in CCWF for 14 years. We met each other through APSC I know her as a very generous and kind person who loves crocheting. She's always been like an extreme light every time I come to the office and interact with her. But I also know that Maria is like someone who frankly, knows all these like incarcerated women or like formerly and currently incarcerated women. She really shows me what it looks like to be, like, an abolitionist feminist despite the kind of struggles and difficulties that she's moving through as someone who's literally currently still facing deportation because of her quote unquote, deportable offense. My comic is about Maria Legarda. It starts with like her story, her migration story from the Philippines. She was born under the Marcos regime, which basically socioeconomically destabilized the Philippines. She came to the US for economic opportunity. But clearly she had a really hard time adjusting, and then eventually she made some choices that led her to a federal offense that led to her decades of incarceration. When she was in prison, she met all these, wonderful women of color who also were survivors of sexual and gendered violence, so I just follow her story through her healing. Despite the fact that she's healed so deeply and she's shown so much care to other people and she has these communities she still is deportable to a country that she hasn't been to in 30 or so years, and doesn't consider home anymore.   Miko Lee: [00:08:27] Share with me a little bit about how zines are your choice of art medium?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:08:32] I love the nature of how like accessible they are. I think I kind of started out as an illustrator and an essayist separately. But then I realized as I was like writing essays I couldn't necessarily share those things immediately with my mom. She's not super fluent in English, right? But like when I combined the medium of illustration and writing into creating a comic in a zine, I could show that to my mom and even if she can't fully understand all the writing she could still access, like the actual medium. And then the form of the zine is something that is meant to be taken away. It's meant to be shared with other people. I started going to a lot of zine fests last year and it just made me realize like, oh yeah, I want all my stuff to be accessible, right? Like I don't want it necessarily to be underneath a pay wall or things of that nature. I think there's something like, you know, for lack of a better word, very like, democratic about zine making, and as well as, comics generally.   Miko Lee: [00:09:20] I love how you do the mom test.   Trần Châu Hà: [00:09:22] Yes. It's funny, I wrote, an essay about my grandmother, actually, in the Asian American Writers Workshop like 2021, and I had to literally translate the entire thing for her to read it to make sure all the details were right, and I was like, wait, I could have just made this easier by like illustrating some of it to make it accessible across language barriers and things of that nature.   Miko Lee: [00:09:40] And has Maria read through the scene?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:09:42] Yes, she has.   Miko Lee: [00:09:44] What has been her take on it?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:09:46] She actually sent me a very long signal which like made me cry because I was like, oh my god, I can't believe she actually thought this about the work. She was talking about how it helped her reflect on everything she's gone through but also like these relationships that have really sustained her. Namely like, I mentioned this person named Granny in the comic who I've met who's essentially like the person who adopted Maria when she just became incarcerated and was dealing with the fallout and trauma of sexual violence and things of that nature. The comic reminds Maria of just her growth essentially over all these years, but also all these rich relationships that still continue to sustain her like across carceral walls and things of that nature.   Miko Lee: [00:10:17] And what do you hope people that come and see your work and take one of your zines, what do you hope that they walk away with?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:10:25] The obvious answer to the question is, like, how cruel the prison to deportation pipeline is. For someone to build such wonderful communities in the United States and for borders being so arbitrary and things of that nature that they can be stolen away from these communities at any point, and how cruel and unnecessary that all feels for immigrants and refugees who have been criminalized to experience this kind of double punishment. I think the other element of it is the ways that women, specifically currently and formerly incarcerated women create these networks of care amongst each other that, in light of the state not supporting them and their healing, whether they've experienced gendered or sexual violence, these people will find each other, these women will find each other and they'll be able to support each other and help each other through these processes of healing and also like fighting sexual violence in the carceral system. Yeah, just like highlighting those kinds of like organic networks and that relationship building that we don't necessarily get to see in like, for example, like mainstream media or like policy making or things of that nature.   Miko Lee: [00:11:18] What will people see when they walk into the Rdge on the Square exhibit space?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:11:23] Yes, you will see 15 comic pages in acrylic frames and then underneath that will be a table with actually takeaways. So feel free to take the comic away in like a booklet form as well, but you can also read it out on the wall when you walk in.   Miko Lee: [00:11:35] Thank you so much for sharing with us about your artistry and your vision and your story about Maria and your connection with Asian Prisoner Support Committee. We look forward to seeing your work.   Trần Châu Hà: [00:11:45] Thank you, Miko. Pleasure speaking with you.   Miko Lee: [00:11:48] Next up, listen to “Staygo” from DARKHEART, A Concert Narrative by singer and songwriter Golda Sargento.   MUSIC   That was the voice of Golda Sargento from the new Filipinx futurism punk rock sci-fi DARKHEART. Katie Quan, artist, activist, ethnic studies teacher. I'm so happy to have you on Apex Express. And the first question I want to ask you is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Katie Quan: [00:16:51] I would say that my people, I really strongly identify with Asian American movement artists, makers, and shakers from like the 60s and 70s. It was my first introduction to really seeing Chinese Americans be out there and be really vocal, be excited, and be loud and angry about all these different topics. And so I've really gravitated towards just all that excitement, all that energy over the past decade just after learning more about them. I really just enjoyed seeing what that looks like and how we can continue that energy, especially for East Asian Americans here in the States, as we move into a new generation of game makers.   Miko Lee: [00:17:38] Tell us about how you carry that legacy of feisty activism into your work as an artist.   Katie Quan: [00:17:44] I like to consider myself a legacy of the Asian American movement. My grandparents came here in the 30s and 40s. I also have great grandparents and great great grandparents who traveled between the US and China, back and forth, back and forth and so I find myself really attached to their stories as well as how they've overcome a lot of those obstacles that Chinese Americans had to face during that time frame. My parents are both second generation Chinese American. They met at Self-Help for the Elderly, which was a organization that came from the Asian American movement in terms of making sure that our elderly are actually taken care of and have culturally relevant care. My parents were very much interested in enrolling us into bilingual education. Bilingual education was not a popular educational pedagogy at that point, partly because people thought that if you learned another language that was not English, that you would lose your Americanness in a lot of ways. And so one of the things that I really like to bring into my art is making sure that legacy and that history is always challenged and always, it feels relevant to where we are now, but also can meet other people where they're at. I do understand that not everyone gets to have a lot of those kinds of privileges where they see themselves, in their role models or that they didn't grow up around the history, I understand that that's the case. And so making sure that the work that I always produce meets people where they need to be at, is something of interest and something that I carry with me in all my work.   Miko Lee: [00:19:32] Thank you, Katie. Can you talk about the work that you have been doing with Chinese for Affirmative Action and tell us about the reparations zine that you've been developing?   Katie Quan: [00:19:43] Me and a team of other artists, academics and activists have been working to make a reparations zine alongside Chinese for Affirmative Action. Here in San Francisco reparations is still a very contentious issue. So one of the things that we're trying to really bring about and inform, especially the Chinese American demographics, is what reparations are and how we can support the work that black communities need and what they're doing at the moment. Within the zine, we are really covering what reparations are, how African Americans in San Francisco have contributed to the making of the city and also the Bay Area, how their community has been bulldozed in many, many ways, whether it's through health, environmental justice, redlining, all of these different issues. What's happened in the past 50, 60 years reparations is that first step in terms of saying sorry and, how can we begin to mend this wound that the United States has created consistently over time with this particular population.   Miko Lee: [00:20:54] What has surprised you about this process?   Katie Quan: [00:20:58] It's hard. [Laughs] And not that I didn't think it wasn't going to be hard. But I think the team that we've been working with, we've been really fortunate because we have some, second, third and fourth generation activists and artists, but we also have a team of other people who are new immigrants, and we've been really fortunate to learn from their perspective. And so rather than approaching it in a lens that talks about anti-blackness, sometimes it's talking about what it means to be American. And how do we participate in democracy? It's bringing a very positive spin, or just kind of a different spin to topics that we already know, and then that we talk about all the time, but making sure that it's accessible to everybody.   Miko Lee: [00:21:46] So this zine is going to be available for free in the Edge on the Square exhibition. Can you talk about what people will see when they walk into the exhibition and see your work? What are they going to see? What are they going to experience?   Katie Quan: [00:21:59] Yeah, we are hoping to make sure that our exhibition is big and it's bold, but at the same time it feels simple in its messaging. Asking people a little bit about what they know about reparations, being able to challenge their own thinking of what they know about black communities here in San Francisco, what they've done. Also talking about how we ourselves get information, how do we learn the things that we know and how can we challenge that? Or how can we push that forward? And so we will have an interactive element, but we will also have the zine there available, which will be created both in English and in Chinese for anybody who needs it. We will also have additional resources via QR code so that if anybody has any other questions or want to learn more about it, want to act on their excitement for this particular issue that they can also do so.   Miko Lee: [00:22:58] And what do you hope that people will walk away from your after taking away your zine after seeing the exhibit? What are you hoping that they will learn or or do after seeing your work?   Katie Quan: [00:23:10] One of the things that we kind of came across when creating the zine is that people had very strong opinions about reparations. They didn't always have all the information, but they had very strong opinions and they had very particular beliefs that come from their own life experiences. Our goal for this is not necessarily to persuade one way or the other, but it's to make sure that they're informed and just making sure that they have all the facts so that they can make a decision that best suits their own life experiences. We're also hoping that people walk away feeling like they know a little bit more and that they can share that with their own communities in a way that makes sense for them.   Miko Lee: [00:23:51] Katie Quan, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express.   Katie Quan: [00:23:54]Yes, thank you so much.   Miko Lee: [00:23:55] Next up, take a listen to “Live It Up” by Bay Area's Power Struggle.   MUSIC   That was “Live It Up”by Bay Area's Power Struggle. Welcome Tsim Nuj to Apex Express.   Tsim Nuj: [00:27:32] Hi, Miko. Thank you so much for having me today.   Miko Lee: [00:27:37] Can I start with just by asking you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Tsim Nuj: [00:27:46] Who are my people and what legacy do I carry with me? My people are Hmong. My ancestors were living in northern Laos, in the mountains and in the jungles and farming. That's where my lineage and then my ancestors had to flee their homes because of the Vietnam War and the secret war in Laos to find refuge in Thailand and then now we're here in the US. specifically in Merced, California in the Central Valley on indigenous Yokut land. So yeah, that's my, those are my people. I think that my community here in Merced that I organize with, who are also queer and trans folks of color are also my people. And I think that the legacy that I carry is this legacy of, I carry this legacy of love. I think that in moments of having to find home and having to survive, I think that love really grounded my people and my people's families. And so I think that I'm really holding onto this act of loving. That I think really grounds me and really affirms who I am and the journey as I honor my ancestors. And I really, as I think about the descendants, right, my descendants, the young people who are a emerging and, you know, the future generations that are coming. And so I think that there's this really special moment where I feel like I'm really longing to connect with my ancestors, especially those who were queer and trans, my queer and trans Hmong ancestors. And I've been also connecting with my descendants. And then I think that there's also this present moment, right, where I'm also connected deeply with my community, who consists of being children of immigrant refugees, you know, queer and trans folks, and folks that are really reimagining and really fighting for a world where we can all be liberated and be our full, authentic, genuine, loving selves.   Miko Lee: [00:29:58] Thank you for sharing. Your art form is as a dancer, as a movement person, and you've created a video for the Walking Stories exhibition. Can you tell us the name of that video and what inspired you to create that?   Tsim Nuj: [00:30:14] I feel really honored to be a part of the Walking Stories exhibit, and this is actually my first exhibit that I get to be a part of and share my work in and so it feels very exciting and it feels very, like such an honor that I get to be a part of this project that's a collection of works who the artists and yeah, the folks that are a part of this are just such like incredible, brilliant beings, sharing our stories. And so my dance video The title of it is Our Queer Hmong Love Dance. What really inspired this piece was this idea of being home, right? And this idea of belonging. There's, there's so much ideas that came up for me. And I think that these ideas were coming up because of a recent transition. Last year, around this time, actually, I graduated from UC San Diego, and I was coming home, right, after five years. And so I think that this piece is really about connecting with my roots and finding home specifically in Merced and in the Central Valley. And really trying to think about who I am as a Hmong person. But it was also about who I was as a Hmong and queer person, right? A queer and Hmong person. And so I started to think about these rituals or these sounds and these movements that I really needed to explore. And so a lot of that exploration and that work. I got to practice and be in process and I think it's really what I needed in this moment. And so I'm really grateful I'm really grateful that I get to share it with my community and I'm really grateful that I get to share with my community and the folks that come and see our exhibit and I really I'm really hopeful that folks will resonate with it and really get to just witness me.   Miko Lee: [00:32:14] And so folks will come to the exhibit, they'll see all these different works, they'll see a booth that will have your film playing in it. Is there something that you want to have your audience lingering with or thinking about after they watch your work?   Tsim Nuj: [00:32:30] Yes. I really want my audience, the folks that come to the exhibit, feel invited to witness my piece, my video in the booth. I want them to allow themselves to really feel, right, whatever they're feeling, whatever is coming up for them. Whether it's the sounds that are guiding them, whether it's the visuals, right. Whether it's, you know, there might be some words or some images that come up, and I really want the audience to just really be with their bodies. Be with their minds, their spirits, right? And I, I hope that they allow themselves to just feel it. And I, I remember having a conversation with you Miko about this like meditative presence. And so I'm hoping that my audience or the folks that come and witness the entire exhibit, right? I hope that they are curious, and that they really allow themselves to just be with the work, whatever that means for them. I don't want to tell people how to watch my work, right? But I do want them to just really, be with it, right? And, and if you can, I hope that you'll be able to watch it for its entirety. I think that there's something really beautiful happening, with how I have put this video together and so I hope that you can be with it. Take the deep breaths. Take those breaths, right, pay attention to the sensations that you experience in your body.   What I want the audience to take away from after seeing my piece, I hope that they get to receive it and that they breathe it in and they're with it, right. And that they really see me and see the people that are in this video. And I hope that they see parts of themselves in it, and parts of their stories and their journeys. And I also really want them to think about these questions that I propose and that I ask, right? That I'm also asking myself. This piece is a dedication, right? I think that I'm creating this piece for my ancestors. I'm dancing for my descendants, and I think I'm also asking them, I'm in conversation with them, right? About where is home? Especially for folks who have been displaced, because of very violent histories of war and persecution and having to flee our homes, right, and survive all that, like, thinking about our indigenous relatives here on Turtle Island and thinking about Palestinians in Gaza. I think that, there's in this moment, this piece, I do ask, and I am trying to find this home, this idea of going home. And also how do we dance there, right? Like, how do we dance towards home? And so what is dance for us? I'm just really inspired by, black queer and trans feminists, specifically Prentiss Hemphill, and just the conversations that Prentiss has shared on their Spotify podcast, go and check it out. I think that this piece is also about remembering and honoring the folks who have come before me and the folks that will arrive after me.   Miko Lee: [00:35:32] Tsi Nuj, thank you so much for sharing your story. And we look forward to seeing your dance piece in Walking Stories.   Tsim Nuj: [00:35:41] Thank you so much, Miko, for your time and for creating the space for me. Yeah, I like, I think there's a lot of excitement that I feel in my body. And so like, I want to talk about the work, but please, please, please, for whoever is listening, come and be with us. Come and experience our work and be in conversation with us. I think it's really important in this moment for us to uplift one another's voices and really affirm each other's stories. When we think about collective liberation, it really is doing this work, right? Of thinking about what is collective care and collective love look like, how do we lean into our creativity, our ancestral technologies and practices to really make meaning of how we show up in this world, right? And to really empower us, right? To, you know, continue showing up for one another and because we know that this work is lifelong. Healing and, you know, really creating this world where we are all free. I hope that the folks that are listening to this and the folks that come to the exhibit and everybody, right, I really hope that we can feel how important it is for each one of us and all of us to be in this movement towards the liberation of everybody, right? Because our liberations are, are so deeply intertwined and connected. So thank you.   Miko Lee: [00:37:04] Thank you so much. That was great. Let's take a listen to one of Byron Au Young's compositions called “Know Your Rights.” This is part of the trilogy of the activists songbook. This multi-lingual rap gives steps to know what to do when ICE officers come to your door.   MUSIC   That was “Know Your Rights” performed by Jason Chu with lyrics by Aaron Jafferis and composed by Byron Au Young. Welcome Visibility Project and Related Tactics to Apex Express. I'm so happy to have you all with me this evening, and I would love to just ask you all the question I love asking for people, which is what is your story? What's your background? And what legacy do you carry with you? And let's start with Weston.   Weston Teruya: [00:40:12] I am a Japanese American and Okinawa American from Hawaii. I identify as an Asian American and person of color, and I draw on the histories of cross-racial solidarity between communities as a strategic alliance and community building effort for justice.   Miko Lee: [00:40:34] Thanks, Weston. And Michelle, how about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:40:41] Hi, thanks, Miko. I'm Korean American. I grew up in Seattle, Washington and spent most of my time on the West Coast. I, similar to Weston, operate in a realm of cross racial solidarity, linking myself often to histories of racial solidarity justice movements. Weston and I are representing Related Tactics, which is an artist collective that also anchors itself within these histories of cross racial solidarity. We make all sorts of artistic works at the intersection of race and culture.   Miko Lee: [00:41:18] Thanks, Michelle. And finally, Mia Nakano, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Mia Nakano: [00:41:24] Thank you so much for having me here. I'm Mia Nakano she/her pronouns and I'm the executive director of the Visibility Project. I am a queer fourth generation Japanese American woman. I am the daughter of a single mother and the sibling of a deaf adult. And I think that all of those relationships and intersectional identities bring forth all of the work that I do. And so I think about queer ancestors, I think about accessibility in the deaf community, I think about all of the really powerful women that have been incredibly present in my life to shape who I am today.   Miko Lee: [00:42:10] Thank you, Mia. And you are two different groups of artists. One is Visibility Project. The other is Related Tactics. Can you share with us a little bit about how this collaboration came about?   Mia Nakano: [00:42:22] I was invited to participate as a contributing artist in one of Related Tactics' very first shows back in, I believe, in 2016, and have been following their work as a growing artistic practice and a collective for quite some time. I've always been thinking about how could the Visibility Project as a queer led, you know queer, LGBTQ, archiving and organizing artistic practice collaborate with this cross racial, very intersectional, collective in Related Tactics. One of the ideas that has sort of been percolating for me over a long period of time was that so many queer Asian American organizations and so many queer spaces have all come out of the idea and like the gathering around potluck spaces, right? So potlucks being safe spaces for queer folks, for folks of color, for marginalized communities who didn't have safe spaces to gather. And many queer Asian organizations started off with potlucks that then turned into social and political groups, which then shifted into political advocacy and culture change, and then ultimately like legislative change. And I saw such deep connections in terms of how I see related tactics and experience related tactics. It's building roots and planting seeds for multiple relationships and collaborations through the different intersecting ways that our communities have been able to come together over the past few years.   Miko Lee: [00:44:18] So how did this collaboration begin working on this concept around potlucks?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:44:24] This is Michelle from Related Tactics. The three of us have known each other for a long time and Mia and I have worked together in a lot of different capacities over the years. I think Related Tactics, at the core of what we do is coming together with this kind of shared belief and shared value system around collectivity as this really productive material and tool and method for creative action in the world. I think at the core of that is understanding that we don't have all the information and we don't like to be the only voice in the room and we are not the ones that necessarily should be telling the stories for everyone. Related Tactics, when we often get an opportunity, one of our common strategies is just to figure out a way to share that out and to bring more voices into the room to be in concert with our own. When we understood that the Visibility Project was also going to be a part of this project, we're like we should join forces and bring our communities together. And I think we've been looking for a way to do that over the years.   Miko Lee: [00:45:35] Talk to me about the title, Nourishing Power. Where does that come from? What is that about?   Mia Nakano: [00:45:41] I think because of the individual artistic practices, And the people who comprise Related Tactics, and myself at the Visibility Project, we are all so incredibly busy, that all of our contributions to our various communities, whether it's at universities, in social justice movements, in artistic organizations, we're all about cultivating the power of other people while putting artists into artistic practices and people first, right? Like you have to, put on your oxygen mask first before you're able to really step out and fully do the work that you want to be doing. And to do that, you have to nourish yourself, you have to nourish your power. And I think that there's also the idea of the collectivity and framework that Related Tactics brings where we can all also do that for one another, right? When one person is at 10 percent capacity, the other two people can step forth and we can all move and lift each other up together rather than doing it as individuals.   Miko Lee: [00:46:52] Thank you. And Weston, what can people expect when they walk into Edge on the Square, the corner of Grant and Clay? What will they see that will show them your work?   Weston Teruya: [00:47:04] So the center point of our installation is going to be these carts with an array of takeaways that people are free to engage with in different ways, and they are essentially prompt for various potlucks that, we've contributed as a themes and as collaborators and then have also invited a group of additional artists to contribute as well. One of the modes that Related Tactics works in is in the form of the takeaway and part of the impetus behind that is that we want to provide the seed for people to create their own sort of spaces and gatherings and encounters with people beyond the gallery walls. We don't want art to just be this thing that only exists in these defined spaces. We've had different projects that use that mode, and this is one of them. We invite people to engage with it, take these ideas, plant the seeds for their own potlucks beyond the walls of the gallery and hopefully have these opportunities to build community, in their own spaces, in their own worlds, amongst their own networks of people.   Miko Lee: [00:48:12] I love the accessible takeaway. I still have a divest yourself matchbox from one of your shows. [Laughs] I love that. Michelle, what's a concrete example of a takeaway from Nourishing Power?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:48:27] One of the examples I would talk about is, one of the artists we've invited, Joy Enriquez, has created like hundreds of tiny ceramic spoons. They're thinking a lot about how does one articulate when they need support. They talk about it as if one only has so many spoons to use in a day, but you have way more things you need to do with those spoons. How do you survive that? How do you ask for support? How do you allocate those spoons to this kind of overwhelming existence? They have all these really beautiful prompts that will be printed on a card to take away, but then also you can take away a ceramic spoon that they've been spending many hours in a ceramic studio, making and firing. I think there's this idea too, that there's many, many ways one can use that spoon that can exist to support your day to day that you might not think about. So they have some things that are about how one might hold or touch the spoon or things you might do with it that isn't just about eating. That also really embodies the spirit of this project, that it's also not just about potlucks in the sense of like, bring food to a table, but that it's about this kind of space to share knowledge, to share resources, to exchange things when you don't feel like you have the thing you're supposed to bring, or you can't meet the expectation, the greater expectations of what is supposed to occur in that moment. But that the potluck is a space for us to share and support each other in ways that we maybe have not been able to imagine yet.   Miko Lee: [00:50:06] Ooh, I love that. And Mia, how many different artists are there? How many, and how did you go about selecting all these different artists that are participating?   Mia Nakano: [00:50:15] There's over a dozen artists who are participating, and we collectively just started brainstorming and extending out invitations to our various communities and folks that we've worked with in the past, folks who, have participated in Related Tactic shows or know, you know, through other pathways and connections. And then I just reached out to a few Visibility Project participants, even folks going back that I interviewed over 15 years ago to ask if they would be willing to participate. Each person was invited to create one prompt, one initial prompt of what the potluck would be, like if they were to have a potluck, right? So we have somebody who put forth a potluck for screaming, a potluck for nourishing. So different artists are putting forth their own individual potlucks, and one prompt connected to that, and then folks will be able to use that as a seed to create their own gathering spaces in the future.   Miko Lee: [00:51:15] If there's an action word that you would want people to walk away with, what's that action word after they go to see your exhibit? What is the verb that you want them to do?   Weston Teruya: [00:51:27] I think it might be gather. That's sort of the crux of what we're hoping to seed.   Miko Lee: [00:51:33] What about an emotion? Is there an emotion you want folks to walk away with?   Mia Nakano: [00:51:38] I like the idea of gathering, in that also kind of to be able to connect, right? Like we're not just coming together, like we're building something that we want to connect and maintain.   Michelle K Carlson: [00:51:50] Yeah. And I think also like exchanging, right? It's like something really active is happening, there's an exchange, everybody's kind of, there's like a reciprocity too. That you know, that nobody is hosting, like everybody's coming and sharing and exchanging and giving and receiving and maybe nourish is actually the right, I don't know if nourish is an emotion, but I think in the social justice world it is. [Laughs] So it feels like nourish actually is probably a useful emotion. I think reciprocity is also like a feeling that should happen, that when you are giving you're not doing so to the point of extraction because you are also receiving. And that's I think one of the core things about this project wasn't just about Related Tactics and or Visibility Project offering ideas. It was like, we have created a prompt for a potluck and in many ways audience members will come into the show and see our potluck because it will have all these contributions from all these other artists. And so you get to kind of leave with like a goodie bag, doggie bag that is like the kind of residue of our potluck. We hope that folks go home and do that for themselves within their communities, either using our prompts or using our prompts as a platform to create their own space.   Miko Lee: [00:53:18] Is there a perfect amount of people to attend a potluck? Like how many dishes do you want at your potluck?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:53:26] I feel like we're in like a seven to ten vibe. Like 15 tops, then it's too many. You know, it's like, because not too many, but it, there's a different thing that's happening when you get over 15 people in a room. But like, I feel like 10 is the zone where you can still have kind of like close intimate, you know, conversations where you can like build trust, you can spend some time, get around to see everyone, get a little bit of everybody's, you know, contribution, and then, but it's not like so small that it's like you and one other person and you're on a very awkward blind date or something.   Miko Lee: [00:54:09] And are you all down for the themed potlucks or do you like them to be just open ended, bring whatever you want?   Mia Nakano: [00:54:17] I love a themed potluck. I love just like some sort of container where you're going in and you're acknowledging I've got dessert, or we're gonna go over to Southeast Asia, rather than everybody showing up with ten pots of rice and they're just eating rice all night.   Michelle K Carlson: [00:54:35] Or tortilla chips, or like Trader Joe's brownie bites, like five containers of those. No shame on brownie bites.   Miko Lee: [00:54:44] Okay, how can folks find out more about your work?   Mia Nakano: [00:54:48] So folks want to check out what the Visibility Project is doing, you can go to visibilityproject.org and learn about all the participants and hear their stories and even go on an LGBTQ digital history tour of the Asian American community in the Bay Area.   Michelle K Carlson: [00:55:04] If you want to find out more about Related Tactics, you can go to relatedtactics.com or find us on Instagram and our handle is just at Related Tactics.   Miko Lee: [00:55:15] Thank you so much for joining me and I look forward to seeing your work in the show and feeling nourished and planning my next potluck. Thank you so much. So that was a chance to listen to just a few of the artivists that are part of Walking Stories. You got a little insight into where they're coming from and how they created their pieces. And there's so many more artivists that you didn't get to hear from. So I hope you'll come to our exhibit that runs June 29th through the end of December. We'll be at Edge on the Square in San Francisco Chinatown. We'll put a link in the show notes at our website kpfa.org backslash programs, backslash apex express. We hope that you'll join us and share your story too, because all of us have important stories to tell. Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Hien Nguyen, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Nate Tan, Paige Chung, Preti Mangala-Shekar, and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Miko Lee and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 6.27.24 – Walking Stories appeared first on KPFA.

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Dim Sum and Drag is a vibrant display of Asian American and Pacific Islander heritage and LGBTQ+ glamor in Chicago. You can check out Dim Sum and Drag's latest installment on Saturday, June 22. Performers will be celebrating the event's three-year anniversary. Reset sat down with a drag performer and DJ to hear more. For a full archive of Reset interviews, head over to wbez.org/reset.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express, Host Miko Lee speaks with artivists from the upcoming exhibition at Edge on the Square.   TRANSCRIPT Walking Stories: Artivists POV   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:34] Good evening this is Miko Lee and welcome to Apex Express. We are so happy to have you with us. We are going to be talking about something really personal to me tonight. We are talking about the new interactive exhibition at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown. The whole exhibition is called Walking Stories and it is stories from our Asian American community. And we invite you to join us. It opens June 29th and runs all the way through December. Opening night, June 29th is going to be interactive performances and amazing little goodies so we really invite you to join us for opening, but if you can make it that night, we're running all the way through the end of December. Okay, so a little bit of background. Some of you might know that I have been a host on Apex Express for the past seven and a half years, and it has truly been a delight and a joy. As part of that time, I learned that Apex Express is part of a network of Asian American progressive groups. That's called AACRE, which is short for Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. And about two and a half years ago, I joined the staff of AACRE, which has been such a joy to be around colleagues that share the same values and passions and beliefs in supporting and uplifting our community. For the past year, we have been working on a narrative strategy, really trying to reframe how Asian Americans are portrayed in the media, how we're perceived within our own community. We were initially going to do this with the Pacific Islander community as well. But in talking to our sister colleagues, they are going through their own process of a PI narrative strategy and I totally respect that. At some point we will merge and join those voices together. So right now we're focusing on Asian American stories. Through the past year through wonderful funding from San Francisco foundation's Bay Area Creative Corps we were actually able to fund approximately 37 different artists and embed them in different AACRE groups to be able to create narratives that resonate with their own communities. So that in this exhibit Walking Stories, we're going to hear stories about Hmong folks and formerly incarcerated folks, folks that are queer and trans and folks that have stories to share, because we all have important stories to share. Our exhibit is inviting folks to think about how they can get involved, how they can share their own stories, how they can join us in this collective movement for rewriting our history of the kind of silent, quiet model minority that sits in the background that's used as the wedge issue for larger things like reparations and affirmative action and really reframes that and brings back our Asian American activist past because we know that is who we are. That is our history going back from the first time that we came into this country. We invite folks in the community to join us to see more about who these stories are, to find out, to get involved to see what resonates with them and even what doesn't resonate with them. But really join us in this conversation. So tonight I'm really pleased to be talking with just a few of the artists that are in Walking Stories. So that you can get some insight into their process and how they made the piece that they're going to be sharing.   The exhibit itself will be at Edge on the Square in San Francisco Chinatown. When you walk in, you are going to see this timeline of lanterns hanging from the ceiling. That's about an Asian American activist history. You're going to see a really cool, nourishing power piece, which we're going to talk to the artists about, that is about how potlucks were used as a tool for queer and trans organizing. You are going to learn more about Hmong dance. And what does that look like, and what does it feel like in your own body? You're going to learn about ancestors, the power of our ancestors and how we can bring that to help us in our healing and moving forward. You're going to see in the exhibit about a Hmong story cloth reimagined with a modern perspective, you're going to see stories of south Asians activists and what they represent. And what does it mean to be a south Asian Muslim in America today? You're going to hear some of these stories. You're going to see them. We hope that you'll experience them. Then we hope that you'll learn more and find out about what we're doing and how you can get involved. So join me on this little journey through some of the artivists—that's artists that are also activists—that are part of our exhibit called Walking Stories. Come board. Join us. Welcome Hà Trần to Apex Express. We're so happy to have you with us. Trần Châu Hà: [00:05:40] Thank you for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:05:41] So you are amazing artist, but I want to start and go back and for you to tell us who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:05:52] Ooh, oh my god, that's such like a big question. I guess my people are the people at Asian Prisoner Support Committee. I come from like a lineage of like Vietnamese refugees, and I think about like the ways that our communities have been impacted by the legacy of imperialism, which includes like incarceration, deportation, and things of that nature. I would say my community are folks who are impacted by, those kinds of pipelines and violences, Southeast Asian folks broadly.   Miko Lee: [00:06:14] And what legacy do you carry with you from them?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:06:18] I think the easy answer is like resilience clearly. To exist and survive under so many different violences and still move forth and create such beautiful communities.   Miko Lee: [00:06:25] Hà how did you get started working with Asian Prisoner Support Committee?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:06:29] It actually started from an interpersonal relationship. My best friend who also works at the organization now. They actually explained to me that a APSC was doing all this work in regards to like stopping the prison to deportation pipeline, how like so many of our Southeast Asian American community members were impacted by this kind of incarceration and things of that nature. At that point, it just became my political home after many, many years.   Miko Lee: [00:06:50] Thanks for sharing that. Then tell us about the work that you have in the new exhibit that is opening up called Walking Stories. Can you tell us the title of your piece and then describe it for us?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:07:01] The piece I'm making is a comic called We Was Girls Together. It's a quote from Sula by Toni Morrison. The comic is about my friend Maria Legarda. She's a re-entry coordinator at the Asian Prisoner Support Committee. She's also a Filipino immigrant who's facing deportation to the Philippines now after she was incarcerated in CCWF for 14 years. We met each other through APSC I know her as a very generous and kind person who loves crocheting. She's always been like an extreme light every time I come to the office and interact with her. But I also know that Maria is like someone who frankly, knows all these like incarcerated women or like formerly and currently incarcerated women. She really shows me what it looks like to be, like, an abolitionist feminist despite the kind of struggles and difficulties that she's moving through as someone who's literally currently still facing deportation because of her quote unquote, deportable offense. My comic is about Maria Legarda. It starts with like her story, her migration story from the Philippines. She was born under the Marcos regime, which basically socioeconomically destabilized the Philippines. She came to the US for economic opportunity. But clearly she had a really hard time adjusting, and then eventually she made some choices that led her to a federal offense that led to her decades of incarceration. When she was in prison, she met all these, wonderful women of color who also were survivors of sexual and gendered violence, so I just follow her story through her healing. Despite the fact that she's healed so deeply and she's shown so much care to other people and she has these communities she still is deportable to a country that she hasn't been to in 30 or so years, and doesn't consider home anymore.   Miko Lee: [00:08:27] Share with me a little bit about how zines are your choice of art medium?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:08:32] I love the nature of how like accessible they are. I think I kind of started out as an illustrator and an essayist separately. But then I realized as I was like writing essays I couldn't necessarily share those things immediately with my mom. She's not super fluent in English, right? But like when I combined the medium of illustration and writing into creating a comic in a zine, I could show that to my mom and even if she can't fully understand all the writing she could still access, like the actual medium. And then the form of the zine is something that is meant to be taken away. It's meant to be shared with other people. I started going to a lot of zine fests last year and it just made me realize like, oh yeah, I want all my stuff to be accessible, right? Like I don't want it necessarily to be underneath a pay wall or things of that nature. I think there's something like, you know, for lack of a better word, very like, democratic about zine making, and as well as, comics generally.   Miko Lee: [00:09:20] I love how you do the mom test.   Trần Châu Hà: [00:09:22] Yes. It's funny, I wrote, an essay about my grandmother, actually, in the Asian American Writers Workshop like 2021, and I had to literally translate the entire thing for her to read it to make sure all the details were right, and I was like, wait, I could have just made this easier by like illustrating some of it to make it accessible across language barriers and things of that nature.   Miko Lee: [00:09:40] And has Maria read through the scene?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:09:42] Yes, she has.   Miko Lee: [00:09:44] What has been her take on it?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:09:46] She actually sent me a very long signal which like made me cry because I was like, oh my god, I can't believe she actually thought this about the work. She was talking about how it helped her reflect on everything she's gone through but also like these relationships that have really sustained her. Namely like, I mentioned this person named Granny in the comic who I've met who's essentially like the person who adopted Maria when she just became incarcerated and was dealing with the fallout and trauma of sexual violence and things of that nature. The comic reminds Maria of just her growth essentially over all these years, but also all these rich relationships that still continue to sustain her like across carceral walls and things of that nature.   Miko Lee: [00:10:17] And what do you hope people that come and see your work and take one of your zines, what do you hope that they walk away with?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:10:25] The obvious answer to the question is, like, how cruel the prison to deportation pipeline is. For someone to build such wonderful communities in the United States and for borders being so arbitrary and things of that nature that they can be stolen away from these communities at any point, and how cruel and unnecessary that all feels for immigrants and refugees who have been criminalized to experience this kind of double punishment. I think the other element of it is the ways that women, specifically currently and formerly incarcerated women create these networks of care amongst each other that, in light of the state not supporting them and their healing, whether they've experienced gendered or sexual violence, these people will find each other, these women will find each other and they'll be able to support each other and help each other through these processes of healing and also like fighting sexual violence in the carceral system. Yeah, just like highlighting those kinds of like organic networks and that relationship building that we don't necessarily get to see in like, for example, like mainstream media or like policy making or things of that nature.   Miko Lee: [00:11:18] What will people see when they walk into the Rdge on the Square exhibit space?   Trần Châu Hà: [00:11:23] Yes, you will see 15 comic pages in acrylic frames and then underneath that will be a table with actually takeaways. So feel free to take the comic away in like a booklet form as well, but you can also read it out on the wall when you walk in.   Miko Lee: [00:11:35] Thank you so much for sharing with us about your artistry and your vision and your story about Maria and your connection with Asian Prisoner Support Committee. We look forward to seeing your work.   Trần Châu Hà: [00:11:45] Thank you, Miko. Pleasure speaking with you.   Miko Lee: [00:11:48] Next up, listen to “Staygo” from DARKHEART, A Concert Narrative by singer and songwriter Golda Sargento.   MUSIC   That was the voice of Golda Sargento from the new Filipinx futurism punk rock sci-fi DARKHEART. Katie Quan, artist, activist, ethnic studies teacher. I'm so happy to have you on Apex Express. And the first question I want to ask you is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Katie Quan: [00:16:51] I would say that my people, I really strongly identify with Asian American movement artists, makers, and shakers from like the 60s and 70s. It was my first introduction to really seeing Chinese Americans be out there and be really vocal, be excited, and be loud and angry about all these different topics. And so I've really gravitated towards just all that excitement, all that energy over the past decade just after learning more about them. I really just enjoyed seeing what that looks like and how we can continue that energy, especially for East Asian Americans here in the States, as we move into a new generation of game makers.   Miko Lee: [00:17:38] Tell us about how you carry that legacy of feisty activism into your work as an artist.   Katie Quan: [00:17:44] I like to consider myself a legacy of the Asian American movement. My grandparents came here in the 30s and 40s. I also have great grandparents and great great grandparents who traveled between the US and China, back and forth, back and forth and so I find myself really attached to their stories as well as how they've overcome a lot of those obstacles that Chinese Americans had to face during that time frame. My parents are both second generation Chinese American. They met at Self-Help for the Elderly, which was a organization that came from the Asian American movement in terms of making sure that our elderly are actually taken care of and have culturally relevant care. My parents were very much interested in enrolling us into bilingual education. Bilingual education was not a popular educational pedagogy at that point, partly because people thought that if you learned another language that was not English, that you would lose your Americanness in a lot of ways. And so one of the things that I really like to bring into my art is making sure that legacy and that history is always challenged and always, it feels relevant to where we are now, but also can meet other people where they're at. I do understand that not everyone gets to have a lot of those kinds of privileges where they see themselves, in their role models or that they didn't grow up around the history, I understand that that's the case. And so making sure that the work that I always produce meets people where they need to be at, is something of interest and something that I carry with me in all my work.   Miko Lee: [00:19:32] Thank you, Katie. Can you talk about the work that you have been doing with Chinese for Affirmative Action and tell us about the reparations zine that you've been developing?   Katie Quan: [00:19:43] Me and a team of other artists, academics and activists have been working to make a reparations zine alongside Chinese for Affirmative Action. Here in San Francisco reparations is still a very contentious issue. So one of the things that we're trying to really bring about and inform, especially the Chinese American demographics, is what reparations are and how we can support the work that black communities need and what they're doing at the moment. Within the zine, we are really covering what reparations are, how African Americans in San Francisco have contributed to the making of the city and also the Bay Area, how their community has been bulldozed in many, many ways, whether it's through health, environmental justice, redlining, all of these different issues. What's happened in the past 50, 60 years reparations is that first step in terms of saying sorry and, how can we begin to mend this wound that the United States has created consistently over time with this particular population.   Miko Lee: [00:20:54] What has surprised you about this process?   Katie Quan: [00:20:58] It's hard. [Laughs] And not that I didn't think it wasn't going to be hard. But I think the team that we've been working with, we've been really fortunate because we have some, second, third and fourth generation activists and artists, but we also have a team of other people who are new immigrants, and we've been really fortunate to learn from their perspective. And so rather than approaching it in a lens that talks about anti-blackness, sometimes it's talking about what it means to be American. And how do we participate in democracy? It's bringing a very positive spin, or just kind of a different spin to topics that we already know, and then that we talk about all the time, but making sure that it's accessible to everybody.   Miko Lee: [00:21:46] So this zine is going to be available for free in the Edge on the Square exhibition. Can you talk about what people will see when they walk into the exhibition and see your work? What are they going to see? What are they going to experience?   Katie Quan: [00:21:59] Yeah, we are hoping to make sure that our exhibition is big and it's bold, but at the same time it feels simple in its messaging. Asking people a little bit about what they know about reparations, being able to challenge their own thinking of what they know about black communities here in San Francisco, what they've done. Also talking about how we ourselves get information, how do we learn the things that we know and how can we challenge that? Or how can we push that forward? And so we will have an interactive element, but we will also have the zine there available, which will be created both in English and in Chinese for anybody who needs it. We will also have additional resources via QR code so that if anybody has any other questions or want to learn more about it, want to act on their excitement for this particular issue that they can also do so.   Miko Lee: [00:22:58] And what do you hope that people will walk away from your after taking away your zine after seeing the exhibit? What are you hoping that they will learn or or do after seeing your work?   Katie Quan: [00:23:10] One of the things that we kind of came across when creating the zine is that people had very strong opinions about reparations. They didn't always have all the information, but they had very strong opinions and they had very particular beliefs that come from their own life experiences. Our goal for this is not necessarily to persuade one way or the other, but it's to make sure that they're informed and just making sure that they have all the facts so that they can make a decision that best suits their own life experiences. We're also hoping that people walk away feeling like they know a little bit more and that they can share that with their own communities in a way that makes sense for them.   Miko Lee: [00:23:51] Katie Quan, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express.   Katie Quan: [00:23:54]Yes, thank you so much.   Miko Lee: [00:23:55] Next up, take a listen to “Live It Up” by Bay Area's Power Struggle.   MUSIC   That was “Live It Up”by Bay Area's Power Struggle. Welcome Tsim Nuj to Apex Express.   Tsim Nuj: [00:27:32] Hi, Miko. Thank you so much for having me today.   Miko Lee: [00:27:37] Can I start with just by asking you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Tsim Nuj: [00:27:46] Who are my people and what legacy do I carry with me? My people are Hmong. My ancestors were living in northern Laos, in the mountains and in the jungles and farming. That's where my lineage and then my ancestors had to flee their homes because of the Vietnam War and the secret war in Laos to find refuge in Thailand and then now we're here in the US. specifically in Merced, California in the Central Valley on indigenous Yokut land. So yeah, that's my, those are my people. I think that my community here in Merced that I organize with, who are also queer and trans folks of color are also my people. And I think that the legacy that I carry is this legacy of, I carry this legacy of love. I think that in moments of having to find home and having to survive, I think that love really grounded my people and my people's families. And so I think that I'm really holding onto this act of loving. That I think really grounds me and really affirms who I am and the journey as I honor my ancestors. And I really, as I think about the descendants, right, my descendants, the young people who are a emerging and, you know, the future generations that are coming. And so I think that there's this really special moment where I feel like I'm really longing to connect with my ancestors, especially those who were queer and trans, my queer and trans Hmong ancestors. And I've been also connecting with my descendants. And then I think that there's also this present moment, right, where I'm also connected deeply with my community, who consists of being children of immigrant refugees, you know, queer and trans folks, and folks that are really reimagining and really fighting for a world where we can all be liberated and be our full, authentic, genuine, loving selves.   Miko Lee: [00:29:58] Thank you for sharing. Your art form is as a dancer, as a movement person, and you've created a video for the Walking Stories exhibition. Can you tell us the name of that video and what inspired you to create that?   Tsim Nuj: [00:30:14] I feel really honored to be a part of the Walking Stories exhibit, and this is actually my first exhibit that I get to be a part of and share my work in and so it feels very exciting and it feels very, like such an honor that I get to be a part of this project that's a collection of works who the artists and yeah, the folks that are a part of this are just such like incredible, brilliant beings, sharing our stories. And so my dance video The title of it is Our Queer Hmong Love Dance. What really inspired this piece was this idea of being home, right? And this idea of belonging. There's, there's so much ideas that came up for me. And I think that these ideas were coming up because of a recent transition. Last year, around this time, actually, I graduated from UC San Diego, and I was coming home, right, after five years. And so I think that this piece is really about connecting with my roots and finding home specifically in Merced and in the Central Valley. And really trying to think about who I am as a Hmong person. But it was also about who I was as a Hmong and queer person, right? A queer and Hmong person. And so I started to think about these rituals or these sounds and these movements that I really needed to explore. And so a lot of that exploration and that work. I got to practice and be in process and I think it's really what I needed in this moment. And so I'm really grateful I'm really grateful that I get to share it with my community and I'm really grateful that I get to share with my community and the folks that come and see our exhibit and I really I'm really hopeful that folks will resonate with it and really get to just witness me.   Miko Lee: [00:32:14] And so folks will come to the exhibit, they'll see all these different works, they'll see a booth that will have your film playing in it. Is there something that you want to have your audience lingering with or thinking about after they watch your work?   Tsim Nuj: [00:32:30] Yes. I really want my audience, the folks that come to the exhibit, feel invited to witness my piece, my video in the booth. I want them to allow themselves to really feel, right, whatever they're feeling, whatever is coming up for them. Whether it's the sounds that are guiding them, whether it's the visuals, right. Whether it's, you know, there might be some words or some images that come up, and I really want the audience to just really be with their bodies. Be with their minds, their spirits, right? And I, I hope that they allow themselves to just feel it. And I, I remember having a conversation with you Miko about this like meditative presence. And so I'm hoping that my audience or the folks that come and witness the entire exhibit, right? I hope that they are curious, and that they really allow themselves to just be with the work, whatever that means for them. I don't want to tell people how to watch my work, right? But I do want them to just really, be with it, right? And, and if you can, I hope that you'll be able to watch it for its entirety. I think that there's something really beautiful happening, with how I have put this video together and so I hope that you can be with it. Take the deep breaths. Take those breaths, right, pay attention to the sensations that you experience in your body.   What I want the audience to take away from after seeing my piece, I hope that they get to receive it and that they breathe it in and they're with it, right. And that they really see me and see the people that are in this video. And I hope that they see parts of themselves in it, and parts of their stories and their journeys. And I also really want them to think about these questions that I propose and that I ask, right? That I'm also asking myself. This piece is a dedication, right? I think that I'm creating this piece for my ancestors. I'm dancing for my descendants, and I think I'm also asking them, I'm in conversation with them, right? About where is home? Especially for folks who have been displaced, because of very violent histories of war and persecution and having to flee our homes, right, and survive all that, like, thinking about our indigenous relatives here on Turtle Island and thinking about Palestinians in Gaza. I think that, there's in this moment, this piece, I do ask, and I am trying to find this home, this idea of going home. And also how do we dance there, right? Like, how do we dance towards home? And so what is dance for us? I'm just really inspired by, black queer and trans feminists, specifically Prentiss Hemphill, and just the conversations that Prentiss has shared on their Spotify podcast, go and check it out. I think that this piece is also about remembering and honoring the folks who have come before me and the folks that will arrive after me.   Miko Lee: [00:35:32] Tsi Nuj, thank you so much for sharing your story. And we look forward to seeing your dance piece in Walking Stories.   Tsim Nuj: [00:35:41] Thank you so much, Miko, for your time and for creating the space for me. Yeah, I like, I think there's a lot of excitement that I feel in my body. And so like, I want to talk about the work, but please, please, please, for whoever is listening, come and be with us. Come and experience our work and be in conversation with us. I think it's really important in this moment for us to uplift one another's voices and really affirm each other's stories. When we think about collective liberation, it really is doing this work, right? Of thinking about what is collective care and collective love look like, how do we lean into our creativity, our ancestral technologies and practices to really make meaning of how we show up in this world, right? And to really empower us, right? To, you know, continue showing up for one another and because we know that this work is lifelong. Healing and, you know, really creating this world where we are all free. I hope that the folks that are listening to this and the folks that come to the exhibit and everybody, right, I really hope that we can feel how important it is for each one of us and all of us to be in this movement towards the liberation of everybody, right? Because our liberations are, are so deeply intertwined and connected. So thank you.   Miko Lee: [00:37:04] Thank you so much. That was great. Let's take a listen to one of Byron Au Young's compositions called “Know Your Rights.” This is part of the trilogy of the activists songbook. This multi-lingual rap gives steps to know what to do when ICE officers come to your door.   MUSIC   That was “Know Your Rights” performed by Jason Chu with lyrics by Aaron Jafferis and composed by Byron Au Young. Welcome Visibility Project and Related Tactics to Apex Express. I'm so happy to have you all with me this evening, and I would love to just ask you all the question I love asking for people, which is what is your story? What's your background? And what legacy do you carry with you? And let's start with Weston.   Weston Teruya: [00:40:12] I am a Japanese American and Okinawa American from Hawaii. I identify as an Asian American and person of color, and I draw on the histories of cross-racial solidarity between communities as a strategic alliance and community building effort for justice.   Miko Lee: [00:40:34] Thanks, Weston. And Michelle, how about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:40:41] Hi, thanks, Miko. I'm Korean American. I grew up in Seattle, Washington and spent most of my time on the West Coast. I, similar to Weston, operate in a realm of cross racial solidarity, linking myself often to histories of racial solidarity justice movements. Weston and I are representing Related Tactics, which is an artist collective that also anchors itself within these histories of cross racial solidarity. We make all sorts of artistic works at the intersection of race and culture.   Miko Lee: [00:41:18] Thanks, Michelle. And finally, Mia Nakano, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Mia Nakano: [00:41:24] Thank you so much for having me here. I'm Mia Nakano she/her pronouns and I'm the executive director of the Visibility Project. I am a queer fourth generation Japanese American woman. I am the daughter of a single mother and the sibling of a deaf adult. And I think that all of those relationships and intersectional identities bring forth all of the work that I do. And so I think about queer ancestors, I think about accessibility in the deaf community, I think about all of the really powerful women that have been incredibly present in my life to shape who I am today.   Miko Lee: [00:42:10] Thank you, Mia. And you are two different groups of artists. One is Visibility Project. The other is Related Tactics. Can you share with us a little bit about how this collaboration came about?   Mia Nakano: [00:42:22] I was invited to participate as a contributing artist in one of Related Tactics' very first shows back in, I believe, in 2016, and have been following their work as a growing artistic practice and a collective for quite some time. I've always been thinking about how could the Visibility Project as a queer led, you know queer, LGBTQ, archiving and organizing artistic practice collaborate with this cross racial, very intersectional, collective in Related Tactics. One of the ideas that has sort of been percolating for me over a long period of time was that so many queer Asian American organizations and so many queer spaces have all come out of the idea and like the gathering around potluck spaces, right? So potlucks being safe spaces for queer folks, for folks of color, for marginalized communities who didn't have safe spaces to gather. And many queer Asian organizations started off with potlucks that then turned into social and political groups, which then shifted into political advocacy and culture change, and then ultimately like legislative change. And I saw such deep connections in terms of how I see related tactics and experience related tactics. It's building roots and planting seeds for multiple relationships and collaborations through the different intersecting ways that our communities have been able to come together over the past few years.   Miko Lee: [00:44:18] So how did this collaboration begin working on this concept around potlucks?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:44:24] This is Michelle from Related Tactics. The three of us have known each other for a long time and Mia and I have worked together in a lot of different capacities over the years. I think Related Tactics, at the core of what we do is coming together with this kind of shared belief and shared value system around collectivity as this really productive material and tool and method for creative action in the world. I think at the core of that is understanding that we don't have all the information and we don't like to be the only voice in the room and we are not the ones that necessarily should be telling the stories for everyone. Related Tactics, when we often get an opportunity, one of our common strategies is just to figure out a way to share that out and to bring more voices into the room to be in concert with our own. When we understood that the Visibility Project was also going to be a part of this project, we're like we should join forces and bring our communities together. And I think we've been looking for a way to do that over the years.   Miko Lee: [00:45:35] Talk to me about the title, Nourishing Power. Where does that come from? What is that about?   Mia Nakano: [00:45:41] I think because of the individual artistic practices, And the people who comprise Related Tactics, and myself at the Visibility Project, we are all so incredibly busy, that all of our contributions to our various communities, whether it's at universities, in social justice movements, in artistic organizations, we're all about cultivating the power of other people while putting artists into artistic practices and people first, right? Like you have to, put on your oxygen mask first before you're able to really step out and fully do the work that you want to be doing. And to do that, you have to nourish yourself, you have to nourish your power. And I think that there's also the idea of the collectivity and framework that Related Tactics brings where we can all also do that for one another, right? When one person is at 10 percent capacity, the other two people can step forth and we can all move and lift each other up together rather than doing it as individuals.   Miko Lee: [00:46:52] Thank you. And Weston, what can people expect when they walk into Edge on the Square, the corner of Grant and Clay? What will they see that will show them your work?   Weston Teruya: [00:47:04] So the center point of our installation is going to be these carts with an array of takeaways that people are free to engage with in different ways, and they are essentially prompt for various potlucks that, we've contributed as a themes and as collaborators and then have also invited a group of additional artists to contribute as well. One of the modes that Related Tactics works in is in the form of the takeaway and part of the impetus behind that is that we want to provide the seed for people to create their own sort of spaces and gatherings and encounters with people beyond the gallery walls. We don't want art to just be this thing that only exists in these defined spaces. We've had different projects that use that mode, and this is one of them. We invite people to engage with it, take these ideas, plant the seeds for their own potlucks beyond the walls of the gallery and hopefully have these opportunities to build community, in their own spaces, in their own worlds, amongst their own networks of people.   Miko Lee: [00:48:12] I love the accessible takeaway. I still have a divest yourself matchbox from one of your shows. [Laughs] I love that. Michelle, what's a concrete example of a takeaway from Nourishing Power?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:48:27] One of the examples I would talk about is, one of the artists we've invited, Joy Enriquez, has created like hundreds of tiny ceramic spoons. They're thinking a lot about how does one articulate when they need support. They talk about it as if one only has so many spoons to use in a day, but you have way more things you need to do with those spoons. How do you survive that? How do you ask for support? How do you allocate those spoons to this kind of overwhelming existence? They have all these really beautiful prompts that will be printed on a card to take away, but then also you can take away a ceramic spoon that they've been spending many hours in a ceramic studio, making and firing. I think there's this idea too, that there's many, many ways one can use that spoon that can exist to support your day to day that you might not think about. So they have some things that are about how one might hold or touch the spoon or things you might do with it that isn't just about eating. That also really embodies the spirit of this project, that it's also not just about potlucks in the sense of like, bring food to a table, but that it's about this kind of space to share knowledge, to share resources, to exchange things when you don't feel like you have the thing you're supposed to bring, or you can't meet the expectation, the greater expectations of what is supposed to occur in that moment. But that the potluck is a space for us to share and support each other in ways that we maybe have not been able to imagine yet.   Miko Lee: [00:50:06] Ooh, I love that. And Mia, how many different artists are there? How many, and how did you go about selecting all these different artists that are participating?   Mia Nakano: [00:50:15] There's over a dozen artists who are participating, and we collectively just started brainstorming and extending out invitations to our various communities and folks that we've worked with in the past, folks who, have participated in Related Tactic shows or know, you know, through other pathways and connections. And then I just reached out to a few Visibility Project participants, even folks going back that I interviewed over 15 years ago to ask if they would be willing to participate. Each person was invited to create one prompt, one initial prompt of what the potluck would be, like if they were to have a potluck, right? So we have somebody who put forth a potluck for screaming, a potluck for nourishing. So different artists are putting forth their own individual potlucks, and one prompt connected to that, and then folks will be able to use that as a seed to create their own gathering spaces in the future.   Miko Lee: [00:51:15] If there's an action word that you would want people to walk away with, what's that action word after they go to see your exhibit? What is the verb that you want them to do?   Weston Teruya: [00:51:27] I think it might be gather. That's sort of the crux of what we're hoping to seed.   Miko Lee: [00:51:33] What about an emotion? Is there an emotion you want folks to walk away with?   Mia Nakano: [00:51:38] I like the idea of gathering, in that also kind of to be able to connect, right? Like we're not just coming together, like we're building something that we want to connect and maintain.   Michelle K Carlson: [00:51:50] Yeah. And I think also like exchanging, right? It's like something really active is happening, there's an exchange, everybody's kind of, there's like a reciprocity too. That you know, that nobody is hosting, like everybody's coming and sharing and exchanging and giving and receiving and maybe nourish is actually the right, I don't know if nourish is an emotion, but I think in the social justice world it is. [Laughs] So it feels like nourish actually is probably a useful emotion. I think reciprocity is also like a feeling that should happen, that when you are giving you're not doing so to the point of extraction because you are also receiving. And that's I think one of the core things about this project wasn't just about Related Tactics and or Visibility Project offering ideas. It was like, we have created a prompt for a potluck and in many ways audience members will come into the show and see our potluck because it will have all these contributions from all these other artists. And so you get to kind of leave with like a goodie bag, doggie bag that is like the kind of residue of our potluck. We hope that folks go home and do that for themselves within their communities, either using our prompts or using our prompts as a platform to create their own space.   Miko Lee: [00:53:18] Is there a perfect amount of people to attend a potluck? Like how many dishes do you want at your potluck?   Michelle K Carlson: [00:53:26] I feel like we're in like a seven to ten vibe. Like 15 tops, then it's too many. You know, it's like, because not too many, but it, there's a different thing that's happening when you get over 15 people in a room. But like, I feel like 10 is the zone where you can still have kind of like close intimate, you know, conversations where you can like build trust, you can spend some time, get around to see everyone, get a little bit of everybody's, you know, contribution, and then, but it's not like so small that it's like you and one other person and you're on a very awkward blind date or something.   Miko Lee: [00:54:09] And are you all down for the themed potlucks or do you like them to be just open ended, bring whatever you want?   Mia Nakano: [00:54:17] I love a themed potluck. I love just like some sort of container where you're going in and you're acknowledging I've got dessert, or we're gonna go over to Southeast Asia, rather than everybody showing up with ten pots of rice and they're just eating rice all night.   Michelle K Carlson: [00:54:35] Or tortilla chips, or like Trader Joe's brownie bites, like five containers of those. No shame on brownie bites.   Miko Lee: [00:54:44] Okay, how can folks find out more about your work?   Mia Nakano: [00:54:48] So folks want to check out what the Visibility Project is doing, you can go to visibilityproject.org and learn about all the participants and hear their stories and even go on an LGBTQ digital history tour of the Asian American community in the Bay Area.   Michelle K Carlson: [00:55:04] If you want to find out more about Related Tactics, you can go to relatedtactics.com or find us on Instagram and our handle is just at Related Tactics.   Miko Lee: [00:55:15] Thank you so much for joining me and I look forward to seeing your work in the show and feeling nourished and planning my next potluck. Thank you so much. So that was a chance to listen to just a few of the artivists that are part of Walking Stories. You got a little insight into where they're coming from and how they created their pieces. And there's so many more artivists that you didn't get to hear from. So I hope you'll come to our exhibit that runs June 29th through the end of December. We'll be at Edge on the Square in San Francisco Chinatown. We'll put a link in the show notes at our website kpfa.org backslash programs, backslash apex express. We hope that you'll join us and share your story too, because all of us have important stories to tell. Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Hien Nguyen, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Nate Tan, Paige Chung, Preti Mangala-Shekar, and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Miko Lee and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – June 13, 2024- Walking Stories appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight, we're going to continue to highlight the podcast Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors.     TRANSCRIPT Episode 4 with Yan Yii   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening, everyone. You're listening to Apex Express Thursday nights at 7 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we're going to continue to highlight the podcast Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, gabriel and Estella talked about anti-blackness in the PI community. And tonight they're talking to union leader and educator Yan Yii about creating culturally relevant classrooms, the importance and emotional toll of teachers being a social safety net for marginalized students, and the ever-growing union presence in education. If this is your first touch into the ConShifts podcast, I strongly recommend diving into the apex archives on kpfa.org, backslash programs, backslash apex express. But for now, let's get to the show.   Yan Yii: [00:01:38] But what about the other 179 days? We can't just celebrate them for one day a year. Or one month a year. We can't just say, okay, Black History Month and we're done. We have to celebrate our students all year long. Because, and we need to change the curriculum. You know, we talked about decolonizing curriculum. I am purposeful in the books that I choose to use in my classroom because, yes, I can teach “Number the Stars” for the 600th time, or maybe I can decide to use a book that reflects my students.   Gabriel: [00:02:10] How do we attract API educators into the workforce and support them throughout their professional journey? In this episode, we rap with Yan Yii on increasing the number of API educators that are coming through our teacher pipeline and emerging as union leaders.   Estella: [00:02:26] What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo'u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, and uso.   Gabriel: [00:02:32] What's good, family? This is Gabriel. Kumusta? Pronouns, he/him.   Estella: [00:02:36] I have the pleasure of introducing our guest today, Yan Yii. Yan is a fifth grade teacher in Canton, Massachusetts, local board president of the Canton Teachers Association. NEA Board of Director for Massachusetts and serves as the Northeast Regional Director for the NEA Asian and Pacific Islanders Caucus. We want to be intentional, though, about not centering our professions above who we are. So Yan, could you please share with us who you are, how do you identify, and who are your people?   Yan Yii: [00:03:05] Hi, as you said, I'm a fifth grade teacher. I'm in my 14th year of teaching. In Massachusetts public schools and I am one of six or seven Asian Pacific Islander NEA board of directors. And I think that number has doubled since last year, which is pretty exciting. I would say that I am a proud daughter of two immigrant Chinese parents. My dad grew up in Malaysia and my mom grew up in Hong Kong and you know being Chinese has always been a huge part of who I am, but it's also been an interesting divide growing up in America because, I've always been split between speaking English and speaking Chinese, you know, even an elementary level, my life was so split in two having my Chinese school on Sundays while all my friends went to church and then going to American school during the week. And that was a huge part of my life separating out, you know, who I was at school and who I was at home, what I spoke at school and what I spoke at home. And, you know, it's funny being bilingual. My friends have always asked like, “When did you learn how to speak English?” And I'm like, “I don't remember.” I know I went to school speaking English. I know that my brothers have always only spoken to me in English, but my parents only speak Cantonese to me. You know, Boston is a huge Cantonese community or it used to be anyways, it's a little more mixed now in our Chinatown, but it's an interesting divide because I remember being in college and having friends who made fun of the way I talked my English was spoken weirdly from my American friends and my Chinese was off for my Chinese friends. It was this difficulty finding a place where you really belong but I would say a huge part of why I became an educator was because of learning about my identity and being that kid who always loved school. I mean, I'm the kind of kid who didn't mind homework because I loved school so much. I was going home and playing school with my little brother and I remember, you know being 10 or 11 and my brother convincing me there was school in the middle of a snowstorm and I walked all the way to school because I wanted to be there and then I promplty went home because there was no school but it, you know, it's, it's some of those interesting things. Like growing up, aside from going to Chinese school, I really didn't see a teacher who looked like me. Now, I've loved each and every single teacher I ever had. I loved making that connection with them, but I think it was really disappointing to not see anybody who looked like me, except when I went to Chinese school where everybody looked like me. So it was this place where I never really felt like I belonged. I grew up in Somerville, Massachusetts, which is pretty diverse. And in eighth grade, we moved to Stoneham, which is 98 percent white and all of a sudden it felt like I had even less of an identity. Like I didn't know who I was supposed to be. And there was no one really who looks like me. And the few that did look like me were either adopted or didn't speak the language or they didn't share the same culture as me. I think that's the reason why when I went to college, I went to Simmons University, and the minute I got in there I signed up for Chinese classes. I became an East Asian studies major, even though I am not a history person at all. Because I felt like I needed to find my identity and I joined the Asian Students Association like, it was literally grasping at anything that could help me feel like I had some sort of identity.   Gabriel: [00:06:40] That's such a powerful point in thinking about how much seeing your culture and identity reflected throughout your educational experience would matter. Even though it was absent, it causes us to want to explore and like you said, grasp for spaces where we can connect with people who share that identity and share that culture. So, part of our conversation here today is really to unpack the landscape of public education and thinking about how API educators aren't largely represented, depending on what state or local or part of the country you're from. But, Yan, I wanted to ask you, from your perspective as an API educator and a union leader with perspective across the state, but also nationally, why do you think there are so few API educators in the workforce?   Yan Yii: [00:07:35] Well, I think part of that, especially in the East Asian culture, is built into our culture, right? It's this idea of is being a teacher a good enough job? I mean, I know when I came home from college and said i'm going into education that was my junior year of college I had already said that I was going to be a psychologist and all of a sudden I came home and I said I'm gonna be a teacher. And no one was upset that I wanted to be a teacher, but they were like, “Are you sure that's the journey for you? Are you sure that's where you want to be? Do you know how much a teacher makes? Is that a good enough job for you?” But like I said, I've always loved education. I think it's the perfect job for me. I think these, it's one of those professions that you're kind of born into. But I don't think it's celebrated among many cultures. Particularly like my Chinese parents, they didn't deter me from being a teacher, but they did say, “Is this the right path for you? Because we don't want to have to worry about you.” But I think also when you don't see yourself reflected in the field when you don't see other AAPI teachers or people working in education, that it makes you feel like there's not a place for you. And it's always about that sense of belonging. Even when I've seen other educators come into the field, if they don't feel like they have someone they can connect with, or, you know. You're facing microaggressions every single day and believe me, I have seen microaggressions in my community where I work, and I have been there for 14 years. And they're never, I would like to believe they're not, they don't come from malintent, but it feels that way sometimes. And I think that when you feel like an island, it becomes very difficult for people to stay in the profession.   Gabriel: [00:09:15] Can definitely relate to that portion. Just again, that whole idea that we need to have representation in part so we can see ourselves in those roles. And the question that you ask, is being a teacher a quote, good enough job? And that narrative playing out in perhaps immigrant family experiences with the whole idea of migrating to the United States is to try to climb this ladder of socioeconomic elevation in some way. I wanted to also ask Estella, since you know, our co host here is a classroom educator out in California. Do you feel like there's a strong representation of API educators throughout the West Coast in California? Or how is the perception of API representation out there in your spaces?   Estella: [00:10:10] In my observations I would say definitely not enough, especially as a PI educator, as a Samoan educator, definitely not enough. Part of the reason why I chose to become an educator, and I feel like there's a list of reasons why I chose education as my profession, and I agree with Yan it is definitely like a calling, right? Like folks who choose this, this is a lifestyle. And it's far more than just a job or a career and so there are so many reasons why I chose to be a teacher. But one reason why I chose specifically to make sure that I came back home to teach aside from my great aunt saying to me right before she passed away, I was the first in my family to go to college. First to finish and my aunt before she passed, she said, “You know, all of that will do no good if you stay in your ivory tower.” After hearing her say that and then losing her, I was very much committed to making sure that I came back home to teach. Early on in my career when I was younger or still in school, I was always feeling like, you know, I want to, I want to travel and teach. I'm going to go, I want to go to Japan. I want to go to Switzerland. I want to go to all these places and teach. And after my aunt said that, I was like, why? Why would I, why would I do that? I need to go home and teach. I need to go back to South Central to South LA and teach and so I ended up coming back to the South Bay to teach because I had assumed that this was going to be a place where I could teach Black and Samoan kids just like me. Because I had never had a Samoan teacher. I had never had a PI teacher ever in my life and I did have Black teachers and that's only because my parents were very deliberate in sending me to a Black school in South LA, for elementary school. But the experience changed in public high school and so I was committed to coming back home to be in a space where I knew I would see Tongan kids, Samoan kids, Fijian kids and then when I got here, my second year teaching and I was like, where, where are my peoples? Where is everybody? Like, I know that when I was a kid, this was because my mom went to Gardena High School. I just knew like growing up, I saw Samoans all over the place and suddenly there were none at the school that I was teaching at. And in my years teaching in the South Bay, I taught in the South Bay for six, nearly seven years. It was a continuous decline of enrollment of PI students. There's a whole host of reasons. One reason, right off the bat, and it goes to everything that Yan has already said, there was no sense of belonging. Or cultural understanding of any of those students in addition, or similarly, there's a continual decline of Black families in our schools in this area. And I'm not saying that the decline has anything to do with, like, the influx or rise of other populations. I think it needs to be pinned squarely on the fact that PI Students are not receiving the support, academic supports they need, or the social emotional supports they need. There is research to show that there is a push out of PI girls and Black girls. They are more likely to be suspended or expelled and pushed out of our schools. In addition, if the boys are not playing football, there's not a lot of support or welcoming or belonging created for those students and definitely no teachers who can connect to them on, on a cultural level or literally speak the language and there's probably a great deal of linguistic needs that aren't being met. They might speak English, but if their first language was Samoan they probably need a lot more EL supports that we don't have programs built for. And so students are leaving, parents are opting for private education or other places where they should go. So I think, I don't know how to name it, but there has to be a correlation with the student population and the number of educators that are also in the space. I'm here to teach students who, you know, I assume or imagine probably going through very similar things I went through as a kid, and there's no one here for me to teach. You know what I mean? Like, like what I set out to accomplish, I don't know that I will be able to.   Gabriel: [00:14:47] Stella, there were two things from what you just shared that are resonating for me. First, the push out of PI and Black students in schools. I think it's important to note that when we think about API: Asian and Pacific Islanders that we perceive this group of people or group of students as a monolith. And when you disaggregate the data, Even though the perception is that API as an aggregate is more highly educated, has higher socioeconomic status, et cetera, et cetera, that when you disaggregate the data, it's important to understand what the impact is on the various communities that exist within that umbrella of API. The other thing you said Estella, about coming back and it being a calling to connect with students that you reflect and reflect you and your cultural identity. That resonated with me when I was teaching in the classroom in Bergenfield, New Jersey. It was one of the largest Filipino populations in New Jersey. Jersey City, I think is the highest Filipino population, but part of my experience there and being able to connect with Filipino students and families. It made that passion grow even more. So part of what I wanted to ask Yan and Estella both is. If we have listeners listening to this podcast right now, say young API folks that are thinking about their calling and exploring their direction in their future, what about teaching inspires passion for you that would make it attractive for API folks listening to this podcast, be inspired to consider choosing this as a direction in their life's path.   Yan Yii: [00:16:40] I think one of the things that really resonates with me as an educator and the reason why I love it so much, you know, I've been back and forth with my involvement in my local union and the fact that it takes me away from my classroom, it's the connections that I make with my students. That, I think that's the most important thing to me, like, how I connect with my students, how I can support them, whether it's through, you know, a few years ago I started a fifth grade, like, show choir. Might have been a little bit Glee inspired, but, you know, it's the fact that my students were willing to give up their recess once a week to come sing with me and dance with me. And, art club after school, they're willing to give up their time, but it's that making those connections with the students and then having those students come back and say, you really changed my life. When I first started teaching, I had a student who was probably the most happy go lucky child I'd ever seen. And she wrote to me years later and said, “You saved my life. Like I was in such a hard place,” and this is, I'm talking about a nine year old child, when she was in my class and she said, “I was in such a bad place and my home life was not good. And, and you made me feel loved.” And that's what we're supposed to do as educators. We're supposed to make our students feel loved. And I think especially when I talk about this in terms of Asian Pacific Islander identity, when you don't feel that connection to your classroom and you don't feel like your teacher sees that part of you, because you know, I hear educators say a lot, “Oh, I, I don't see color.” And I'm always like, but when you don't see color, it's the danger of a single story, right? You're only seeing one part of your student, you're seeing the academics of that student. But, you know, I remember a few years ago, one of the big things I've always done in my classroom is celebrate Lunar New Year, because it's a huge celebration for my family. I wanted to share that with my students, and you know, two boys in one of my coworker's class had said, they were so excited to share about their culture and what they do at home. And she's like, well, then that was great. And I said, yes, it was. But what about the other 179 days? We can't just celebrate them for one day a year, or one month a year. We can't just say, okay, Black History Month and we're done. We have to celebrate our students all year long. And we need to change the curriculum. You know, we talk about decolonizing curriculum. I am purposeful in the books that I choose to use in my classroom because yes, I can teach Number the Stars for the 600th time, or maybe I can decide to use a book that reflects my students. And, you know, that's why I started my year off with Seedfolk, because I wanted to talk about what cultures coming together looked like, and you know, one of my students immediately said, he's like, “Wow, I could see myself in that book.” And that's what I want to hear from my students. I can see myself in that book. And it's not the same whitewashed characters over and over and over again, because my students are gaining nothing from that. And it's, it's trying to make that relevant throughout the entire school and not just my classroom. But making that connection with my students I would say is what makes my job worth getting up for every single day.   Estella: [00:19:37] It is not lost on me that this is what episode four and nearly every guest we have had on this show, every single one of us have said that an important part of our journey was cultural or ethnic studies. At some point in our life, probably undergrad, graduate school, we made a very conscious choice to seek it out and go after it. And it was crucial to our becoming who we are, right? We've had professors, educators, social workers on the show, and every single person has stated that cultural studies was somewhere in their journey. So that's not lost on me that you said earlier that, you know, that was an important part also of your journey. Even though you're not, you're like history [blows a raspberry], but [laughs] it was still an important part of becoming who you are as an educator and a leader. And I wanted to just call that out. You also mentioned how important it was to find a place of belonging, and I guess I struggle with actually encouraging young people to become educators, in part because I don't know that the profession itself serves us the way it should. Right? Like, as a union leader, as a educator, as a Black woman, as a PI woman, I don't know that our field has figured out how to take care of us the way it should and I don't, I feel guilty, I guess, pushing young people to move into education. And that bothers me, right? Because the other, the flip side of that is we're having this conversation: How do we get more educators in classrooms? And I'm struggling because I know we need more API representation in the field. But then I'm like, do I want to do that to people I care about? Because this profession does not lend itself to self care. We are not taught in our training programs how to create collectives or community you know, to survive our field. We don't have open and honest conversations through that credentialing program about how we survive in this field you know. How do we deal with a lot of us are empaths, right? Like we are in this and we lead with our hearts. And when you're dealing with your trauma and then a whole host of secondhand trauma. I didn't take a class on that. You know [laughs] how to deal with your own emotions and carrying the weight of everything your kids are going through and you're trying to, you know, help them as best as you can, while also dealing with your own. There was nothing to prepare me for that part of this, this industry. And I think that those of us who this is our calling we just put our heads down and we fight through and we push as hard as we can to show up, to continue to show up for our kids. But oftentimes it is absolutely at our detriment. We are self sacrificing martyrs more times than I think we should be. I'm just being honest, I'm not saying I plan on walking away from my classroom anytime soon, but I just wanted to, to state that. I definitely agree that the biggest thing that keeps me inspired or in the classroom is the relationships with students. The amount of times they, I mean, I teach high school, I'm secondary, so I've got ninth through twelfth graders, and every single grade level is its own special brand of hilarious. And I just love, I love those moments in between the lesson. I love the moment where they absolutely take charge of the lesson. I love moments where students are, you know, correcting and calling me out because I know learning is happening. I know that they, something has been ignited and lit and they're questioning and they're being curious and they're pushing back and they're thinking critically. So I welcome all of those moments and those are the best moments that keep me in the classroom and similar stories when kids come back or write me messages like miss, you know, I just, you know, thank you or I can't wait for my younger sibling to be in your class or, you know, whatever the case may be, those are definitely the things that keep you in the classroom or keep you willing to keep coming back. Even though the profession does not look out for us or protect us or take care of us. Virtual teaching, if nothing else, has pointed out how bad these silos have gotten. Because during this virtual teaching, and I don't know about other folks, but my experience has been I feel absolutely disconnected from colleagues. I could go a whole week without ever talking to another colleague. And it's just me and students logging into Zoom and logging out. And so this has sort of made those silos even worse in some cases. But what I was thinking about when you were talking is there's an added layer of culture. Like, if we're having conversations about intersectionality that I think teachers of color deal with, that API teachers deal with, that other teachers may not fully understand and those microaggressions that you talk about, sometimes I don't even like using the word microaggression because I, like you said, I feel like nah that was just aggressive, bro like you, you didn't have to say what you said, the way you said it. It wasn't, there was nothing micro about that. That was just straight up aggression. Cause like you, just unnecessary. And so there's this added layer of like cultural and I guess this and I feel like I'm talking to circles now, but this goes back to feeling like the profession doesn't take care of us. And there's an added layer to that for Black teachers for Latinx teachers for API teachers. And so not only do we then burden the responsibility or we shoulder the burden of having to show up for every single kid who looks like us and sharing those experiences as first generation Americans and immigrant students, but we also then have the extra task of showing up for all the educators across the field who also share in, you know, why I had to go all the way to college just to figure out who I am and what my calling is and find a place where I could be and exist and belong.   Yan Yii: [00:26:17] I just wanted to say, you know, I think that the demand of educators because I'm mentoring a brand new teacher this year. She's literally a one year teacher And she was made for this, right? Like, she was made to be an educator, but there are times where I'm like, you probably shouldn't do this. Like, if there's still time for you to get out, I've already put too many years into this. You know, I think back, you know, when the Boston Marathon bombing happened, and then the next day when my students came to school, they said, “What are you going to do to protect me?” So, so all of a sudden, and my fifth graders are 10 years old. All of a sudden, I'm not just your teacher now. Now I'm your protector. That is my job to sacrifice myself, and I would willingly do it for any of my students. To protect them. And then on top of it, now we're in a pandemic and we're learning in person. So, you know, I'm, I'm going to be 100 percent honest. I was exposed at school and I'm under isolation right now. Thankfully tested negative, but this is another layer that students have to deal with. And as students that now they're worried that they're going to one get us sick. And if we get sick, you know, there's another layer of trauma and I feel like everywhere I turn, there's more trauma and more administrators telling us, you should take care of yourself, but also I'm going to give you new curriculum. I'm going to give you this, this and this to do, but I'm not gonna take anything off your plate, but also take care of yourself. And I want to be able to tell new teachers it will change because let's be honest, public education has been a pendulum. It goes to the extreme, and then it comes back because someone goes, Whoa, what are we doing? But I think there's a lot of pressure on educators constantly to do the right thing and then to always put their students first. And you're right, we end up sacrificing ourselves and our, our mental health and our well being for our students. How many teachers, you know, who probably have taken home like a student who doesn't have a home or is spending their own money to buy students lunches or, or buy students clothes or whatever else they need to do, whatever else they need to do for their students. And we give and we give and we give, especially, you know, anytime we can, and I don't ever want to not do that. But when you think about a brand new educator coming in, you go, you still have time, like, and it's a terrible, terrible way to feel. But, one of the things that, you know, we started an Asian mentorship program this, last year, and honestly, it's been a breath of fresh air to not be alone and we went from 12 people last year to 40 people this year. And it's been like, wow, there are other people who are going through the same thing I'm going through and there are other people seeing what I'm seeing and on top of it being an educator of color, you have people, especially in your first three years of education that will doubt your abilities in the job because you probably got it because of the color of your skin, at least in their opinion. Right? And you're fighting, like, if I didn't have a super ethnic sounding name, if I could, if I could have hidden that, I would have, because I wanted people to know that I did it on my merit and not because of the color of my skin. That I didn't get this job because I'm Asian, but I got this job because I'm a good educator and I got to keep this job because I'm a good educator, not because of affirmative action. And there are so many different layers that we have to deal with as educators of color on top of everything else we're already dealing with.   Estella: [00:29:45] After the shooting in Florida at…   Yan Yii: [00:29:48] Stoneman Douglas.   Estella: [00:29:50] Yes. Yeah, there you go. Stoneman Douglas. Thank you. After that shooting, I remember at our school, it was my 10th graders were doing, you know, school shooter drills or having conversations about what to do if there's a school shooter on campus. And my students, I remember their response was very similar. Like, what do we do, miss? And them being very vocal about like, I don't trust teachers, miss. Like who's going to take a bullet for me, miss? And when I thought about it, I was like, hold up. There's not one teacher on campus. And then students stopped and thought, and they're like, well, I mean, I guess I'm coming to this room and we can figure it out together. And I had to have an conversation with students about like, now that I'm a mother and a wife. My perspective has changed, right? Like my first year of teaching, maybe it would have been, you know, and I can't say what I would do in a terrible moment like that, but you know, I know that my first year teaching my attitude was probably more like I will do whatever to protect my students. I took an oath, right? I'm going to protect my students. And after having my daughter, I had a conversation with another educator, you know, we're talking about. What do we do in, in events like a school shooting? And she said to me, “I know that you are willing to take care of your students. We, we know that no one is questioning that you are a good educator, but your responsibility now is different because you have a child to make it home to.” And that cut real deep and hit different. And I, [long pause, tearing up] I questioned whether or not I could stay in the profession and how much longer I could stay in the profession. If what we had to deal with was going to continue to bombings, shootings, pandemics, I have a child to make it home to and a husband to take care of. And I don't know how much more, you know, folks expect. For us to be willing to sacrifice and watching the conversations online about open up schools, go back to schools. Teachers are whining. Teachers are this, that, and the other. When just nine months ago, it was, “Oh my God, I never knew how much you guys do in the classroom every day.” And then to suddenly like this quick shift to just go back to the classroom. It doesn't instill me with a whole lot of faith. And I honestly don't know where I was going. I was just thinking about what you said about, you know, the bombing and having that conversation with kids. And while I know that students need to feel and know that we're going to take care of them, I definitely had a conversation with students. An honest conversation. And I said, I don't, I don't know. I know that I'm, I will do everything that I can. And if this is the room that you feel safe coming to, this is the room you need to be at. And I've practiced with students, like, you know, we've had large fights where the school gets shut down and we go under lockdown and I've gone outside and just yanked kids into my room as quickly as I can. As soon as that lockdown sound goes on. And we've practiced, like we've had conversations like, “Miss, we gon bust that window out. We'll make a rope ladder,” like whatever it is, like we've had those conversations and I just hate that we have to have those conversations. Like, I really hate that that's normal now.   Gabriel: [00:33:49] The amount of pressure that educators are feeling, especially in this moment, being the nurturers, caregivers, and now being asked to be the protectors. The overwhelming workload, the self sacrifice physically, mentally, emotionally, and as Yan mentioned, in some cases, financially, even dealing with the Eurocentric curriculum, in some ways is a form of emotional violence. That we as educators are expected to perpetuate onto our students and that it takes its own toll. In addition to the quote, microaggressions that are really aggressions, there's a lot and what I also heard from you both is that it's really the relationships with the students, with some colleagues, with creating communities of affinity spaces, where you can share some experiences, cultural identity, and as Yan was describing that mentorship program, building those relationships internally. Those are the things that keep the weight on this scale as even as it can be to keep you connected and committed, at least in this moment.   Swati Rayasam: [00:35:14] You're tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. Coming up is the song “Depressure” by Nu Nasa, off of the Khamsa music project.   MUSIC   That was the song “Depressure” by Nu Nasa, off of the Khamsa music project. And now back to the ConShifts podcast.   Gabriel: [00:38:52] So, Yan, just a question I had for you, being involved in union leadership in your local, state, and national level, specifically in the spaces that lean into cultural affinity. And address racial inequity within the union spaces, having that space, platform, experience network in what ways, what drew you to that for what reason do you now serve in leadership roles in that way? And, what would you say to folks that are currently API educators, but not as involved in their union at the current moment? What would you say to those folks?   Yan Yii: [00:39:32] So I took a class a few years ago, maybe like two years ago on how to not burn out. And I was like, wouldn't there be irony if I burned out while taking this class on how to not burn out. But it's things that you're passionate about will never burn you out. They'll, they'll energize you to do more work. Right. You know, I have a painting here and I think it's a Gabriel Tanglao quote. We rise by lifting others. I painted it a few years ago. And it's always, I'm always searching because basically how I got involved was somebody said, “Hey, you'd be really good as a building rep.” And then a few years later, they were like, “You should step into the role of secretary.” And then it was, “You should consider running for union president.” And I became the NEAA pick because you Gabe you told me “You should try this out.” And I said, well, okay, I'll give it a shot, right? Because part of union work is about identifying other leaders and we rise by lifting others, right? It's not about the power grab. It's not about staying in power. You know, one of the big things I pushed in my local is we need term limits because a healthy union has turnover. There's a reason why we only have eight years allowed for a president, right? You can, you can serve a total of two terms because if someone has more than two terms, they tend to go, you know, like, what is it? Absolute power corrupts. And, you know, we want to avoid that and, I'm less concerned about, um, corruption in teacher unions than I am about complacency. If the same person is in charge for 20 years, great, because then they will always do the work. But guess what? That person is going to retire at some point. You know, I've been union president for four years now, and I'm stepping down at the end of this year, because I think it's time for someone else to step up. And I think that, you know, this is not a top down, it's a bottom up. Like, we have to all work together. And we are all part of the union. So it drives me absolutely insane when someone says, “But what is the union doing for me?” And I turn around and say, “You're the union. We are all the union.” Like it can't, you can't just look at me and think that I'm going to do things for you because I am your spokesperson as your president, not your dictator. It's not my job to make these decisions. In fact, I try to step back as much as possible to allow decisions to be made by the membership versus made by me. And I think, you know, I remember being in Dallas, I want to say four or five years ago, and we were in a very, very large room for a very small group of people. I want to say there were maybe four people and one of them was a friend who was not Asian that I dragged into the room with me so that she could also be there. And then my first RA at the, for NEA, we had a small room of people. And when we were in Minnesota. And even when we were in Houston, we didn't have enough chairs. It was the most exciting thing in the world to me. Our group has gotten so large. They put us in a small room and we didn't have enough chairs. And you feel comfortable. Like, I love the term we use in APIC, Ohana, like family. We're family together. Like it is our APIC family. Like we're small, but, but we're mighty, right? Like we want to have that voice and we want to fight for what's right for not just us, but for, for everyone. And I think, you know, I've, I've managed to do that in my role serving 6 years on EMAC and it was, you know, like most recently we had conversations about how to decolonize curriculum throughout Massachusetts and, you know, like the idea that I'm one person what can I do? I can change what I'm choosing to teach in my classroom with a little teacher autonomy. I can choose to not only read whitewashed curriculum. I can find a paired text of this is what happened during this time in history. I can focus my readings during Black history month on different people instead of just Martin Luther King. Not that that's not important, but why are we only getting one perspective? There are so many historical Black figures. And if we're not pushing that, are we waiting for our students to push for it? Because they might not know too, because they've never been exposed to it. And I do think we live in a time where kids are pushing more and more and more against whitewashed curriculum, but we as educators have to do our job too. And it's making that connection with each other and not feeling so alone in that journey.   Gabriel: [00:43:57] Yeah, nah, we definitely started the conversation around how union leadership creates spaces. And part of what you kind of illustrated through that is it's an opportunity to lift up more people, more educators, specifically more API educators into spaces to learn with each other and grow with each other. Specifically with the decolonizing curriculum conversation, I remember that you and I had a chance to collaborate in some spaces around decolonizing curriculum, and it was through the union space that we connected even Estella and I connected through the union spaces. So that's a place to find the community of folks. That you know, are doing that critical work. So I loved your response. I wanted to also just talk more broadly about the educator pipeline for API folks. Do you have any thoughts on ways that we can expand this API educator pipeline? And if you wanted to integrate some of the work that you're doing with your mentorship program into that conversation. So part one, how do we attract more educators into the profession and workforce? Part two, how do we continue to support those educators throughout their professional journey?   Yan Yii: [00:45:18] So I'm going to start with part two, because I feel like part two has to happen in order for part one to happen, right? I think we need to work on retaining educators, particularly AAPI educators, because coming into the profession, and then we don't feel supported and people will leave. And I think part of this is helping people to not feel like an island, but also making people feel like there's a sense of belonging in the field. Because if everyone is constantly looking at you like you don't belong, then you're not going to stay. Unless you have a lot of fight in you, which many of us do [laughs] but when everything is working against you and there's so much pressure on you already. Not having a sense of belonging is really going to drive you from the profession. Now, once we build up that, you know, like, and what I love about this mentorship program, and I know you're using the word pipeline, and we started with that term, and we pulled away from it because we feel like it tends to have a negative connotation. When I hear the word pipeline, I think school to prison pipeline. Right? So we had changed it to a mentorship program because really, you know, especially this year we've talked about it. It's not just the veterans mentoring newer teachers or even aspiring educators. It's that we all have so much to learn from each other, regardless of where we are. My mentee at my school, she and I talk every single day, and she's constantly showing me new things, and I've been an educator for 14 more years than she has. And it's this idea that it's a group of, like, this is a learning experience for everybody, not just the person who is brand new, and it's not just me as a veteran who has something to offer. Now, in terms of getting more people to come into the profession, particularly more AAPI educators, one, it's seeing us in the field. Seeing themselves reflected in the field. Two, I think it's changing the narrative about the respect this job deserves. You know, Estella said it before we live in a time where 6 months ago you said everybody loves teachers. Right? And then all of a sudden we became enemy number one. And that was really hard for me to stomach as a union leader and as an educator. I know, you know, I was personally attacked on my personal Facebook because of some of the union work I was doing and trying to advocate for the safety of my educators. And someone has said, it sounds like you don't really want to be in the classroom. Maybe you should consider a change of profession. And I was like, first of all, this is my personal Facebook. Second of all, I had your child in fifth grade, so I know you know what a good educator I am. And if you remembered what a good educator I was, you would know that I care more about these students than I do about my own safety sometimes. So maybe we should take a step back and think about what we're saying before we start attacking educators. But it's having that connection and being able to support them and changing that narrative. But I also think it's not, it's not like, you know, right now we were like, okay, we're going to find AAPI students in college who are already in education. Well, guess what? There aren't very many of them. Like, we need to get to you before that. We need to get to them in high school. We need to get to them in middle school and elementary school, we need to dig as deep as we can. And part of that digging is going to be reflecting ourselves in the education field. I think if you don't see yourself there and you don't see that as a possibility and if people are constantly telling you, don't be a teacher, it's not worth it, or you won't make enough money or those who can do, and those who can't teach. Like all of those feelings, that's what prevents people from being, becoming educators. And I will say this as, as much as my Chinese mom complained about me becoming a teacher when she talks to my aunties she's always like, “And my daughter is doing this in her classroom and you should see the pictures of her classroom. And then she's always saying to my nieces and nephews, you should listen to your auntie, she's a teacher. She knows what she's doing.” Right. So like that always makes me feel a little bit better because for years I was like, did I choose the right profession? I think when I turned 30, I was like, okay, this is it. Am I going to stay here? Because I'm investing in my retirement now. Or am I going to consider changing my career and honestly, I can't see myself doing anything else.   Estella: [00:49:40] I had the same thought at 30. [Laughs] Am I in it or, or am I going somewhere else? And my dad was the same way with, you know, “Are you sure? Teaching?” Also, I was a double major in theater. It was Black studies and theater. And I knew I was going into education and I don't know what it is about Nigerian parents, but it's “Theater? You're going to be a clown for the rest of your life?” Like that's, that was the thought process. Like excuse m?. But, I wonder how much of that, because it's come up in previous episodes and, and Gabe, you mentioned too about, you know, the need of immigrant children to push and push and push and do great in school and speak, you know, in Nigerian family “speak the King's English” is what we say. And I wonder how much of that. is just a product of assimilation or trying to align with whiteness. And so, I mean, I hate it. Kind of makes my skin crawl. And you know, and then of course that imposter syndrome, it just looms. It just like nags and looms. And I don't know what to do with those, those feelings or thoughts because I know first gen kids are gonna deal with that I don't, like, I don't know how to help kids move past that, honestly, because it's not something I've ever learned to fully cope with, move past, or deal with. Every time I think I'm in my stride and I've dealt with those emotions, again, I'm still feeling like, did I do enough? Is this good enough? But then, like you said, then I hear my dad go, “Oh, well, my daughter, blah, blah, blah.” And I'm like, really dad? Cause when I told you I switched my major, you, you show that that is not what you said. But anyway, you mentioned like our API spaces is like Ohana. And one thought that I'm having. You know, and thinking about how we make sure that we've got safe affinity spaces for API educators and our union is definitely one of those spaces with our ethnic caucuses at the state level and the national level. There definitely is still some area for growth within our affinity spaces along the lines of generational issues, but also in the ways in which anti- blackness or racism creeps in, right? Like I think that there is, and I don't know how to define it, segment it, weed it out, but there's definitely a generational difference between, I'd say, you know, teachers who are currently within their, like, first 10 years to our educators who, you know, they're 20 plus year veterans. We don't necessarily see eye to eye when it comes to cultural ethnic issues. And part of that might be because our education, once we found those cultural spaces of belonging in college, I imagine probably looked very different for some of our elders in the profession. And so I think our level of race or critical race consciousness is not in the same place and so I think there needs to be a level of some just personal reflective work on the individual level, but also as a collective, like as an Ohana, like we need to have some of these really hard conversations together and continuously, so that we can move forward towards solidifying some sort of collective identity. I think that there's probably far more API educators out there in the field that may not yet identify as API because they may be in a different place in their cultural identity work. They might be in a very different place. Because whoever named us API, right, like they fit a whole bunch of nationalities and cultures into one category. Whole different groups of people, islands, like nation states, bunched up into this API term. And so there might be a whole bunch of folks out there that's like “API. What's an API?” when that's probably technically where they would belong if they knew what box to click on, you know what I mean? And so I think part of our work is defining who we are and then like [laughs] doing the marketing work to make sure educators in the field know. Hey, this is your affinity space over here. We've got your back. Your Ohana is right here. If you, you know, come on over, join us, take a seat. And, and then we can continue to do that reflective work, transformation work.   Gabriel: [00:54:24] As we close today, I'd love to ask you, what is one thing that gives you hope in this moment where hope may be hard to find?   Yan Yii: [00:54:34] I think one of the things that makes me hopeful is that at my very last class of 2020, it was December 22nd, I asked my students, what is one thing you are thankful for, from this past year? And they were like, “The fact that I can come to your class,” like come to school. Like I had kids who wanted to be in school, whatever capacity we were going to do this, they wanted to be there. And that meant the world to me, the connections we've made. And you know, one of the things, even, even being in hybrid, You know, I worry every day about the impact of that. But I see how close my cohort A is to themselves, like, and I see how close my cohort B is, and I do a lot of work where, you know, the students, like, I teach synchronously all day long, so the student, they, they are constantly working with each other and the bond that they have as a class. I think that's what makes me really hopeful. And, you know, in terms of being a API educator, the thing that makes me the most hopeful is that we tripled in size in our mentorship program that we're out there. And we just have to find, like you, you have to dig a lot, because especially in Massachusetts, many of our AAPI educators are actually not, in the same union. They're part of the AFT and not the NEA because they're part of Boston Public, which is the largest local we have. And some of us are literally islands alone in Western, in a small, small rural town in Western Massachusetts, but the fact that they found us and they said, this is, this is, this is where I feel like I'm connecting. Like it's the connections that we're making that I think allow me to be hopeful.   Estella: [00:56:11] Fa'afetai Tleilava. Thank you for listening.   Gabriel: [00:56:13] Salamat. Thank you for listening.   Estella: [00:56:14] We want to thank our special guest, Yan one more time for rapping with us tonight. We appreciate you.   Gabriel: [00:56:19] Continental Shifts Podcast can be found on Pod Beam, apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.   Estella: [00:56:26] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archived footage and grab some merch on our site Gabriel: [00:56:31] and join our mailing list for updates at conshiftspodcast.com. That's C-O-N-S-H-I-F-T S podcast. com and follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.   Estella: [00:56:49] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.   Gabriel: [00:56:53] Keep rocking with us fam. We're going to make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, all together.   Estella: [00:56:58] Fa'afetai Thanks again. Tōfā, deuces.   Gabriel: [00:57:02] Peace. One love.   Swati Rayasam: [00:57:08] Please check out our website, kpfa.org backslash program backslash apex express. To find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Kiki Rivera, Nate Tan, Hien Ngyuen, Cheryl Truong, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a great night. The post APEX Express – 6.6.24 Continental Shift-API Educator Pipeline appeared first on KPFA.

Show Notes: Somava Saha's interest in medical school began late in her career. She studied molecular biology in her fourth year at Harvard, but she eventually enrolled in the Berkeley UCSF joint MediCal program. There, she learned about medicine from the perspective of people and cases, as well as the economics of medicine and the history of healthcare and public health. She also completed a master's thesis with the Bahai Community Health Partnership in Guyana, South America, where she worked alongside community health workers, villagers, and teachers to create conditions for collective healing. Somava explains the approach taken and how it led to significant health improvements, such as 90% reductions in malaria rates and elimination of acquired developmental delays.  Getting to Know the People Who Experience Homelessness  Somava also talks about the impact the Spare Change newspaper and getting to know the people experiencing homelessness in Harvard Square had on her and her career. She started to get involved in programs like Phillips Brooks House, and food recovery programs. By listening to the stories of people who were homeless, Somava found that there was an incredible wealth of human potential and people with enormous gifts to offer one another and others in creating communities. This experience taught her how to value the knowledge stored in stories, how to connect people's stories with policies, and see the gift in others as valuable tools for creating better change.  Community-driven Change Somava talks about her time at Harvard Medical School and the Cambridge Health Alliance. She learned about the importance of community-driven change and how it can build social connections and change systems. During her residency training, Somava learned about the differences in structures and systems. She also encountered the challenges of supporting patients who had recently been assaulted. She talks about the process of collecting evidence and how this experience led to her belief in a model of seamless care that demonstrates true dignity and cultural competence is an important model to follow. She realized that the presence or absence of money does not determine whether systems work for people and communities experiencing inequities. Instead, it is the choices we make as a society and how structures and systems are designed to create a sense of dignity. Leading a Community Health Center Somava talks about leading a community health center in Revere, using the same lessons and methods as her life at Cambridge Health Alliance. Over the next two and a half years, the center became known as a national model, and she became elected as the next president of the medical staff. Somava went on to become the Vice President leading the care transformation in Massachusetts. The transformation focused on designing a system that works for people, giving dignity and agency, and valuing all workers based on their expertise, talents, gifts, and contributions. This transformation was chosen by the Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation as one for innovative and effective transformations in the country. Designing a Health System that Works Somava realized that health doesn't happen when someone goes into the doctor's office, but rather throughout life, leading to toxic stress and harmful outcomes. This led her to propose the 100 million healthier lives initiative, which built a global network across 30 countries and over 1850 partners reaching over 500 million people. In three and a half years, the network improved 738 million lives. She also founded Well Being and Equity in the World, focusing on changing the underlying conditions and root causes that perpetuate harm in people's lives, holding back their potential throughout their lifespan. A Progressive Medical Clinic Model Somava explains what made the Revere Clinic a progressive model and offers an example of how it worked for patients. The clinic created high-functioning teams to cater to the needs of the community, ensuring longer hours and safety appointments. The clinic recognized the importance of community members, such as medical assistants and receptionists, who could play a larger role than their technical capacity. Revere changed its financing model to focus on improving health and connecting with people throughout the year. They focussed on quality of care over quantity, building relationships, and supporting the patients. These approaches are just a few that were incorporated and prioritized preventative care, chronic disease management, and provided more time and coaching for individuals to work on their health and well-being goals.  Creating Well-being Initiatives Somava has worked with over 500 communities across the nation, including black, indigenous Latinx, and other communities, to create wellbeing initiatives designed by people closest to the problems. These initiatives saved over 60,000 years of life and helped communities of color, expunged prison records, and fed and housed the community back in their homes.She emphasizes the importance of understanding that those experiencing inequities have enormous gifts to offer the nation and that it is a loss is when we prevent them from expressing their genius. A Mission to Advance Well-being Somava's mission is to advance intergenerational well-being and equity based on racial and economic justice. She talks about methods employed to create pathways for intergenerational health building and community building, including the Well Being in the Nation network, which connects the dots across organizations and provides support in multiple ways. Many of their initiatives and frameworks have been adopted by organizations and federal agencies.  The most important part of their work is building community, and building change agents who can create better change. They have worked with organizations like the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the CDC, and the Surgeon General to build capacity in the public health system and to create a network of change agents. Influential Harvard Courses and Professors Somava mentions professor Diana Ecks on World Religions, and courses Lessons Learned from the Weimar Republic, Medical Anthropology Timestamps: 05:17 Healthcare, poverty, and social connection 10:18 Homelessness, poverty, and healthcare 18:11 Improving healthcare systems for marginalized communities 24:05 Transforming healthcare through community-centered approaches 28:45 Healthcare system redesign for better patient outcomes 36:43 Improving diabetes care through patient-led groups 40:56 Trusting patients' knowledge for health and wellness 46:07 Building collective leadership for health equity Links: Website:  https://weintheworld.org/ Featured Non-profit: The featured non-profit of this episode is CAPE, recommended by Melinda Hsu Taylor who reports: “Hi, this is Melinda Hsu from the class of 1992. And this week's featured organization is the coalition of Asian Pacific's in entertainment. They're a group that's been around for about 30 years in Hollywood, fostering and Amplifying Voices from the creative side from the industry talent side, all from the Asian Pacific Islander native Hawaiian community. And I'm very pleased to have been involved with many of their outreach programs and the Asian American writers brunch, as well as the mentoring program that they have through not just the cape writers fellowship, but also the showrunner incubator, which I'm helping launch this year. And I hope that you will look up their website which is Cape usa.org To find out more about the work they do the initiatives and also the screenings and the kind of like programs that they do to let people know about what films are coming out and how to support them and how to get involved with all of these things. And now here is Will Bachman and this week's episode.” To learn more about their work visit: CapeUSA.org

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Black Graduation is a pre-commencement graduation celebration. It was initially started on college campuses to create a more intimate, cultural, and personal graduation experience for Black graduates. Black graduation connects the Black community and allows students and families to take pride in their accomplishments, while also celebrating the strength, beauty, and resilience of their Blackness. Many colleges today have Black, Latino, Asian/Pacific Islander graduations alongside regular school graduation to celebrate and acknowledge the culture and accomplishments of students from diverse cultures. To donate email blackgradhd@gmail.com or letschewthegum@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/protkall/message

May is Asian American/Pacific Islander Heritage Month and we're committed to learning and celebrating this commemorative event on Faith Talks. Listen in as we talk with several members of United Women in Faith who identify as Asian/Pacific Islander or South Asian. This is a moment to highlight the community's trials and triumphs while committing ourselves to deeper learning. We are excited to interview Selina Soo Lim of Gum Moon Women's Residence; Joni Chun of Susannah Wesley Community Center; and Esther Barkat, a retired school psychologist and United Women in Faith member.Faith talks is hosted by Jennifer R. Farmer and is produced by United Women in Faith. Visit http://www.uwfaith.org to learn more.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Join Powerleegirl hosts Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee and Ayame Keane-Lee, a mother daughters team. They are celebrating Asian American Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander Heritage month.They talk with artists and activists who are telling their stories in so many different ways. Artists from the annual United States of Asian America festival, including artistic director, Melanie Elvena, storyteller Nancy Wang, and musician, Scott Oshiro. Jalena learns about the POC Food and Wine festival from Director Gina Mariko Rosalis and talks with Thuy Tran about CAAMfest, Asian American film festival. Miko speaks with Cyn Choi from Stop AAPI Hate.   Events Covered in this APEX Episode May 2-5, 2024  POC Food & Wine Festival @cielcreativespace, Berkeley & @fouroneninesf, San Francisco, CA April 25-June 23, 2024 United States of Asian American Festival various locations throughout SF. Including performers such as Eth-Noh-Tec and Scott Oshiro May 9-19, 2024 CAAMfest various locations throughout the Bay Area. May 10-12th, 2024 After The War Blues Z Space May 16-June 1, 2024, DARKHEART – A Concert Narrative by Golda Sargento at Bindlestiff Studio Stop AAPI Hate campaign Spread AAPI Love   Additional Events: May 10-12, 2024 After The War Blues at Z Space May 31, 2024, from 5:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. Sacramento AAPI NIGHT MARKET   SHOW Transcripts Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express. Asian Pacific Expression Community and cultural coverage. Music and calendar. New visions and voices. Coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:34] Good evening. You're tuned into apex express. We're bringing you an Asian American Pacific Islander view from the Bay and around the world. We are your hosts, Miko Lee and Jalena Keane-Lee, the PowerLeeGirls, a mother-daughter team. Tonight we are talking about Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander Heritage Month and all of the amazing events that you can experience. We meet with artists and activists who are telling their stories in so many different ways. We hear from the artists from the annual United States of Asian America festival, including artistic director, Melanie Elvena storyteller, Nancy Wang, and musician Scott Oshiro. Jalena learns about the POC food and wine festival from director Gina Mariko Rosales and talks with Thúy Trần about CAAMFest an Asian American film festival. And I hear from Cinci from StopAAPIHate. First up, we're going to hear about all the amazing artists behind the 27th annual United States of Asian America festival.   Hello, Artistic Director Melanie Elvena from Asian Pacific Islander Cultural Center. We're so glad to have you on Apex Express.   Melanie Elvena: [00:01:44] Hello, everyone. Thank you so much, Miko, for having me here today and letting me talk about our festival.   Miko Lee: [00:01:49] This is the 27th year of the United States of Asian America Festival, which is stunning to me, already 27 years. Tell us about the theme this year, Be(long)ing Here.   Melanie Elvena: [00:02:02] Yeah, it's crazy to believe that it's 27 years. It's also my 10th year with APIC. And our theme this year is Be(long)ing Here which asks us what it means to be, Here, what it means to belong here, but also what are we longing here? Actually, I created this theme with our previous festival coordinator who unfortunately passed away in October, but he came here from San Diego and was just blown away by the richness of the AAPI arts community and our culture and our history. We just wanted together to reflect on where we have been, where we are now, And just what our collective future holds while acknowledging our backgrounds as immigrants, as refugees, mixed race descendants, and just really wanting to dive into what it means to belong. I think a lot of us as AAPI community members are folks who immigrated here, we're always looking for our home and our place where we can feel safe and belong, especially with everything going on right now in the world politically, the war in Gaza, a lot of us have even just in our own AAPI community, have lost a lot of community members. We're going through this moment of grief and reflecting upon our time in the pandemic, where we also just lost a lot of there was just so much death, right? What does that mean now in this current moment? Every year we try to come up with a theme that, you know, reflects upon us. What we're experiencing as Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders. And also what do we see for ourselves in the future?   Miko Lee: [00:03:21] Thank you for sharing Melanie. I'm so sorry to hear about your colleague. That's heartbreaking and you're right. We are living in such a time of immense grief. It is powerful how we can use arts and cultural events to enrich us and bring our spirits back to ourselves. Can you talk about the breadth of the festival and what people can expect?   Melanie Elvena: [00:03:40] Of course. So every year we have multiple events. , this year I believe we have 22 different events. It showcases all disciplines, theater, music, dance, film, literature, visual arts, many, many more. There's even culinary events and we have artists of all different disciplines, AAPI backgrounds, represented and, it goes from May through June. There's a little bit of something for everyone but I just want to talk a little bit about our featured events. Our first event is a kickoff celebration for the festival, but it's also an opening reception for our annual arts exhibition. This year, I worked with Independent curator Delaney Chieyen Holton, and they curated this exhibition called Where is Your Body and for them they are exploring how the body is the lowest common denominator for solidarity and thinking about the body and our vulnerabilities. What does it mean to have a body, especially as someone who identifies as AAPI, a person of color, queer, for us, we're always negotiating what the body means, for ourselves out in the world. There's a handful of artists and that's going to open on April 25th. Then the exhibition will run through May 24th at SOMArts cultural center. So we would love for everyone to come and see the show. Another event that we're highlighting. We have two featured. the first one is Megan Lowe Dances from May 31st through June 9 at The Joe Goode Annex called Just a Shadow. Megan is bringing together seven artists to make six different duets. It's about pretty much celebrating life, but also acknowledging grief and the memory of loved ones and resilience. For Megan, who personally has experienced a lot of loss in the last handful of years, she's using this piece to reflect upon everyone's collective grief that we've all been experiencing. Our next featured artist is Ramon Abad, who's doing an immersive theater experience for children and families at Bindlestiff Studios called Duck Soup. He has shows from June 8th through June 15th. I really love about Ramon's work is, he works with puppets and brings in children and youth to tell their own stories. There's going to be multiple stories with different youth, and they're going to be able to tell them to an audience and to have families involved, especially in San Francisco, where there's not as many programming for children. We wanted to highlight Ramon and be like, San Francisco is a place where families can thrive and have a space and with his art with his theater his puppetry. It brings to life, the humor, the joy, but also some of the hard things that we have to go through, especially through the perspective of youth and of children.   Miko Lee: [00:05:58] What is a collaborative event that you're doing this year that you're excited about?   Melanie Elvena: [00:06:02] Yeah, so We're collaborating with Sunday Streets Tenderloin to do an outdoor showcase from 1 to 4pm on June 23rd It's a street fair, two blocks on Golden Gate Avenue in the Tenderloin between Jones and Hyde Streets. We're so excited to have this partnership again with Sunday Streets and Livable City. We're going to have a whole afternoon of performances from both artists, as well as Tenderloin artists and local artists. Our Artists we're featuring is dNaga Dance Co., Johnny Huy Nguyễn & Tim Kim, Sun Park, as well as Swetha Prabakaran Productions with Nirmathi. We're just so excited for this day because last year we had such a good time. We brought the stage to this street fair and people from all walks of life came to enjoy as well as a lot of families and youth. It was just like a beautiful day where folks could just come and enjoy as well as take advantage of the free services that they had. The street fair offered, especially when we talk about the tenderloin and all the issues and problems you think of homelessness substance abuse and all those things. But, for one day, there was just like this beautiful time where everybody was just enjoying and being each other's company. That's the real San Francisco. I think that's the real beauty that we have here. The real richness and what it means to experience art together. It really brings people together and it brings some healing. I'm super excited to have this again and can't wait to be out there.   Miko Lee: [00:07:20] Thank you so much APICC, for continuing to show up and provide us with a varied experience of what it means to be Asian American for curating such an amazing event. We really appreciate your work. People can have access to all of these amazing adventures with APICC and a greater understanding of belonging here by looking at the website, which we will link to on our apex express site at KPFA. Next up, listen to elements of freedom from Scott Oshiro Part of Afro Asian futures playing Saturday, May 18th. As part of the United States of Asian America Festival.   MUSIC   That was Scott Oshiro from Afro Asian Futures playing the song Elements of Freedom. This will also be part of the United States of Asian America Festival.   Welcome Nancy Wang from Eth-Noh-Tec to Apex Express.   Nancy Wang: [00:10:18] Thank you. Thank you, Miko. Miko Lee: [00:10:20] We are so happy to have you, and I understand that Ethnotech is going to be part of APICC United States of Asian America Festival. Can you tell me about what work you're going to be presenting in APICC Festival?   Nancy Wang: [00:10:34] Yes, my piece is called Shadows & Secrets, and it's about my grandfather's death in 1924. We had all been brought up to think it was an accident, although my grandmother accused her own brother of murdering him, so no one took her really seriously, but I began to notice inconsistencies around what was going on at the time of his death. And so I've been doing a lot of research and I've come up with too many suspicious circumstances around his death. I agree with her. I think it was murder. And so my piece is about trying to find in this cold case, uh, Who could have been the murder. There are four suspects I have found, and maybe they all did it together, or maybe they all wanted to do it, but this is what this piece is about and it's multidisciplinary. So there's going to be media behind it with different photos of this restaurant. He was a very famous restaurateur in Chicago. I have six other actors who are going to do the parts. It's going to be a stage radio play genre. So it's kind of exciting with all the Foley sounds. It's going to be at the Mission Cultural Center on May 4th and 5th. May 4th at 6:30pm. and May 5th at 2pm. In addition to that, we're doing an art exhibit at 447 Minna, because there's an artist in New York, Chee Wang Ng, who has been collecting various memorabilia of Chinese restaurants in that era of the early 1900s. It is going to be really interesting to see the lavishness of the restaurants at that time, east of the Mississippi river, because both. non Chinese and Chinese were very, very much in love with Chau Sui. If they could afford it, they went to these lavish restaurants.   Miko Lee: [00:12:20] And how is the exhibit connected to your work?   Nancy Wang:[00:12:24]  Because my grandfather had one of those lavish restaurants in Chicago. He was known as the, Prince of Merchandom or the wealthiest Chinaman in the Midwest. Because of his fame and his ability to draw in like the upper crust of the lo fan or the European Americans who came to his restaurant and were loyal to him. He had more than one restaurant and they were all very lavish. You'd have opera singers and violinists from Russia. And he had a 10, 000 organ in his restaurant and he had, uh, organ player every night besides bringing in special guests. So it was really very lavish, but very suspect as to what else was going on. Everyone's dead. So I can say what I need to say. [Laughs].   Miko Lee: [00:13:14] This feels like a new genre for Eth-Noh-Tec in terms of doing a radio play and an art gallery. How, what does it feel like to expand into a new kind of medium?   Nancy Wang: [00:13:24] We saw the Ross Valley players put on a stage radio play and it was so interesting. I just love the idea of it. And it also saves the actors from having to memorize because they get to use their scripts since it's supposed to be a radio show. They all get to play different characters, so they have to find different stances and different voices, so it's a challenge for them. so it really simplifies and at the same time is really interesting and exciting.   Miko Lee: [00:13:50] I'm excited to see it because mostly your work is movement oriented. Many different forms of Asian, traditional dance forms that are moved in this storytelling style, so it will be very fun to see a new kind of work. Can you talk a little bit about how your show fits into the festival's theme of belonging here?   Nancy Wang: [00:14:09] I think, everything that happens whether they're part of the Tong Wars or they're part of, just trying to make a living, survive, it's all about trying to belong here. Even if the Tongs are at war, it's about territory. It's about saying, no, this is where I live. This is my territory. I belong here. So it's always about trying to make sure that your own way of life is going to be grounded in some kind of permanency, trying to make sure that you get to stay in this country. So, whether you have to, you end up doing it illegally, It's still about trying to stake out where you belong. That's how I see it.   Miko Lee: [00:14:51] And lastly, Nancy, talk to me about what Asian American Pacific Islander Native Hawaiian Heritage Month means to you.   Nancy Wang: [00:14:59] Well, you know, it should be our heritage all year round, but in this time that the federal government has put aside for us, , it's a way to really hone in on here we are. This is who we are. This is what we're capable of doing. This is how we think. This is how we express ourselves. We belong. Please understand. We're not foreigners forever. We have been here for seven to eight generations already. So how can you say we don't belong? This is our world. This is our country too. It's really important for us to use this time to celebrate who we are. And hopefully that the rest of the country, who are not Asian, Get to understand that and somehow create the bridge that will connect us all in some way so that diversity is celebrated rather than something to fear.   Miko Lee: [00:15:52] Nancy Wang, thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing your show as part of APICCFestival. Thank you.   Nancy Wang: [00:15:58] Thank you, Miko, for having me on your show.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:16:00] I am here with Gina Mariko Rosales and so excited to talk about the POC Food and Wine Festival. Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express.   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:16:10] Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:16:14] Can you tell us a little bit about the festival and what listeners can expect if they are to attend?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:16:20] Been a long time event planner, producer. We've been doing a ton of work in the Filipino community in San Francisco for over seven years. So one of our biggest festivals has been Undiscovered SF, this Filipino night market. And it's been so beautiful for us to be producing that event. But I've really had this desire to build with more multicultural communities. And so that's how this idea of POC Food and Wine was born, was really wanting to bring together multicultural communities in food, beverage, art, music and how do we bring all these folks together to build something that's bigger than any one of us? How do we share knowledge resources across our communities? So POC Food and Wine Festival is launching. It's a four day festival and we're featuring all kinds of different events, but our main event is happening on saturday May 4th. So it's the main dish where we're featuring pairings so like tastings from amazing award winning chefs. It's paired with POC winemakers, spirits, non alcoholic drinks, and beverage brands. And then of course, Make it Mariko, we always do music really big in everything we do. So of course there's going to be tons of amazing DJs and live music performers. But there's really something for everyone. You want that festival vibe, you want our after party vibe, you can come to that or we have these really amazing family meals where it's like more of the traditional sit down, coursed out, dinner service.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:17:45] So exciting. And for people who don't know, why is it particularly important to highlight POC winemakers and food creators? What is it about those fields that makes it difficult for people to rake into?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:17:57] In the mainstream spaces and all of those industries so many of these festivals, a lot of the smaller batch winemakers or just folks who don't maybe have PR agencies, they don't really get access to a lot of these festivals. And even when POC folks do get access. A lot of the time it costs a ton of money for these chefs to come and present at some of these festivals. And so that's not accessible to a lot of people who may be really amazing chefs but don't have the budget for that. So our whole goal with our festival was to create a space that was highlighting folks who don't necessarily typically get access to these big festival spaces and how do we do it accessibly for them so they can really come and be a part of it.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:18:41] And speaking of accessibility, I feel like wine sometimes can be something that it feels like, you know, there's a lot of clout around it or maybe some studying or something that's needed. Can you talk a little bit about the space around wine and inclusion in that field?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:18:57] Totally. I mean, so I'm a wine lover. I love drinking wine. I love going to wine bars. I just got back from Calistoga last week. , but sometimes the reality is a lot of these wine spaces for people of color may not feel accessible or safe or welcoming. A lot of them are, but I've definitely been to a lot of spaces where I've kind of been ignored. Or maybe I'm the only person of color in the room. Maybe you've even had the experience of feeling, getting shushed at a winery or a wine event. And that just, to me, doesn't feel comfortable. It doesn't feel like home. So we really wanted to create a wine studio. space that feels more comfortable and accessible. Even just playing music that we like, little things like that make people feel comfortable in a space like I can come as my authentic self.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:19:42] That's so true. I think a lot of times the culture around wine can feel a bit stuffy and exclusionary. For someone who's not sure about wine, what would you say to them about reduced barriers to entry to be a connoisseur or an appreciator of wine?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:19:58] This festival is a perfect way to get introduced to that culture and start to feel comfortable there people who love drinking wine But maybe don't they don't consider themselves like a wine person because they don't have knowledge about it Because we're creating these pairings for you So we're gonna be telling you like here's this bite this amazing tasting from this chef and we paired it with this drink for these Reasons, so why don't you try it out and see how you feel how you like it and if you don't then that's fine like at least you're learning something and you're getting your, foot in the door and, learning how to even do a wine tasting. So we'll be sharing some tips like that for people before they go to the festival like, all right, here's some things that you might want to know about and here's how you can taste at a wine festival. Here's how you can spit at a wine festival. Here's what these buckets are for. So we're going to help try to introduce people to that culture and make it, you know, less scary.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:20:51] How did you first connect with wine and what was that experience like?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:20:56] My dad loves drinking wine and he would always drink like the darkest, richest red wines. And so when I would taste it, I was like, I do not like this. This is gross. I started drinking my first foray into wine was like really sweet wines, like Gewürztraminer and the more I got into it, my palate started developing and I was like, okay, I'm starting to like this now and now I like this. And it changed. So I actually took a sabbatical from my company after like a really bad burnout after COVID and I got a received a wine scholarship to this program that gave me an introduction to wine that I could actually now learn and study it and that gave me so much inspiration to be like, Oh, this is something that I can do. This is accessible to me and now I'm just educating myself. And there's so many of these kinds of scholarships available for people who are. excited or curious about wine and just want to get into it and make it more of a passion. So we really want to introduce those to folks too.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:21:57] Wow. That's so incredible. When you're talking about who you want to come to the event, can you talk a little bit more about that of who would be the ideal audience for this event and who, or what are you hoping that they bring with them?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:22:11] Yeah, that's a great question. Of course, we really want those like wine lovers, wine connoisseurs, folks who are, even studying wine, going up for the WCET, or, even like high class sommeliers who are really lovers of wine and understand it really deeply because some of the winemakers we are featuring are just wine Amazing, amazing winemakers with very delicious wine. So the wine pro is welcome here and we'll have an amazing time, especially with the pairings. But The like, entry, I'm just curious about wine, and really I just like, love music and festivals in general, like you are absolutely welcome here, because who doesn't love food, first of all? People all love really delicious food and drinks, so that's gonna be there for you. Some of the other people that we'd love to come or even people who just love music. I love music. I love culture. I love dancing. That is going to be on display throughout the week. So we have some of the best DJs, not even just in the Bay Area, but in the world that are going to be showcasing and spinning at the events. There'll be line dancing galore. So even if that's more of your jam, you're going to have an amazing time too. Another group that might be really excited about coming and that we really want to come to the festival are industry people. So if you are a person who's actively working in the food, beverage, hospitality events or entertainment industry, like we want you to come. Friday night we're hosting a special event. special sip and scratch industry night reception just for the people who are working in the industry. And we're going to be hosting like a really amazing industry roundtable discussion where we want to like get people's thoughts and ideas. How do we help improve diversity in these industries? Who's out there doing it really well? What are some ideas of what we could do better? And how can we come together as the industry? Fellow folks in the industries and, you know, work together to improve that. So that's something that I'm really excited about too. We really just want to have a community conversation. Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:24:12] That's great. And you know, this is a mother-daughter radio show. And you know, my mom thought that this was more my lane, but I'm curious what you think about the parents and older generations coming through too.   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:24:23] Oh my gosh, absolutely. Mother's Day is coming up. And we really love the idea of people buying tickets for their moms or chosen moms or aunties or dads or whoever, and bring your family to this event. It's really going to be a super family friendly. Festival where you can come, bring your parents, do all the tastings together, dance a little. I invited my parents to the after party last year Brown is Beautiful and they had an amazing time and we're just like dancing up a storm. So I definitely encourage people like make this a family friendly day and invite them.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:24:57] I love that. And I'm so glad that you're bringing this event to the Bay and that, you know, all of these world renowned people are going to be here in our hometown. And of course, there's so much wine production that happens nearby us as well. What is special about the Bay Area informing the idea of the event and your own worldview?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:25:17] I mean, I am a Bay girl born and raised. So I was born in Pacifica and raised in Daly City, San Francisco, Berkeley, you know, so I've been around the Bay and I probably will be for the rest of my life. So I just. Love it here so much. I love the creativity of people, the diversity of people and diversity of thought out here. So of course, like the festival is really highlighting the best of the Bay and we're really focusing on What are some of the amazing diverse creatives that are building here currently? What is it that makes the Bay the amazing place that it is? And highlighting some of those key businesses throughout. So they're going to come and give you tastings at the festival, but some of them have beautiful brick and mortars that really do need support outside of that. So that's one of our big goals too, is like, how do we just introduce people to new spaces that they never knew of before? Because we all know that we get stuck in our little pockets of places, even me, sometimes it's hard to get even out of like Excelsior and Soma in San Francisco, but how do we challenge ourselves to find new spaces outside of our comfort zones and then become part of a bigger community and expand our community.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:26:28] Yeah, I'm so glad, and that definitely happens to me too. I'll get this idea that nothing happens here, and then I'm like, girl, you're the one that's been inside, like, all this time.   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:26:38] The thing, too, is like ever since COVID, the pandemic, we got so comfortable in these little niche spaces. And that's okay. You know, we went through trauma together, but now it's time for us to really explore and expand. And I think that doing this multicultural festival really challenges us to meet new people, meet new restaurants, meet new small businesses that we can support, and connecting people is one of the biggest goals of our festival.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:02] Yeah, and what have been some of the unique challenges that you have faced and overcome when it comes to making a multicultural festival in this place and time?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:27:11] Oh, man, it's definitely, it's definitely been a journey, but one I'm really, honored to be on. First off, we're long time festival producers, but new to the wine industry. And so that was really a big hump and I had to kind of get over was figuring out my way. Who's the who's who of the industry? Who's already doing diversity work? Who are some of the big players? And who can I also reach out to for help? You know, so that's been definitely a challenge. But one I'm really have been excited about because I've been meeting all these amazing new people. Secondly, we're self funding this festival. We do have some sponsors, which I'm really excited about, but the majority of the festival is self funded by our agency and we are really small startup women of color owned agency. So that alone is a lot of investment, but we feel so passionate about the space that we're trying to build and highlighting the people that we are. So we're very excited about that and really excited for the community to turn out and show their support for something like this.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:28:10] That's so great. Can you talk a little bit more about your agency and being a woman run business? And I know that, some of the events are at CL Space, which is also a woman owned, great studio in Berkeley. So yeah, how does that impact the festival?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:28:23] One of the hardest things I was like, daughters, sons of immigrants, you know, I'm a second generation. My parents came from Japan and the Philippines and immigrated here. We often deal with so much scarcity mentality, like we're just trying our best to make it. Maybe we have imposter syndrome. Maybe we're the only woman or person of color in a room. So there's a lot of challenges already from us just taking up space. So that alone has been a real mental challenge for me to even just Say like, Hey, we deserve to be in this space. The space is necessary and we want you to hear us loud and proud. You know, we say it so confidently, but there's a lot of mental work that comes behind just getting to that place of confidence to say that out loud.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:29:08] Absolutely. And it feels to me like the festival is really an example too of, staking a claim in the fact that we deserve joy too, and we deserve rest and play and luxury, and that as important as it is, of course, to come together across, you know, lines of difference when it comes to like urgent actions and organizing. It's also so important to be able to have that kind of space in our joy and in our leisure too.   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:29:34] Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad that you did have that takeaway because we try so hard to really just constantly put this message of, Hey folks, we know you're tired. We're tired too. And we've been doing a lot. We've been pushing a lot. We all have. And yes, we deserve nice things. We deserve joyful experiences. We deserve spaces where it's centered on us being taken care of. And that's really the kind of environment that we want to create here at this festival, a place of. You know, wellness and healing and joy, because food is healing. Food is also connection, food is culture. So by creating this space, also like, you know, we have, we're featuring a CBD wine sound bath. You know, there's all kinds of other activities. So come be fed in your, in your belly, but also of your heart and your mind, you know, take care of that too. So it's this holistic approach to joy and healing.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:30:30] I love that. And how does your own cultural background impact, why you wanted to create this event and how you organize?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:30:37] Oh, yes. So I'm Filipino Japanese, and there's not many Filipino Japanese people around my age, mainly because of, like, that was like World War II time, that our grandparents were kind of coming together. So, I take a lot from both of my cultural backgrounds that kind of helped me determine like, what I do and how I curate, you know, Japanese people are so beautiful at creation and curation and really just like honing a craft and becoming well at it. I take a lot of inspiration from that and try to really do that for myself. But when it comes time to party time, Filipinos. know what is up. And so a lot of my curation of how I plan parties and festivals comes from my Filipino upbringing and what a Filipino family party looked like. You know, tons of food, karaoke, singing, drinking, you know, laughing. Like that is my background and what I want to bring to every festival we produce.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:31:40] I love that. And you know, as someone born and raised in the Bay Area who did a lot of theater growing up, I have been to many a Filipino party. They're always amazing. Great, great food, great, uh, singing. Although some content is a bit competitive, but [Laughs].   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:32:00] Absolutely. You might even see my mom there and then, you know, it's like a big party. She'll just be welcoming everyone at the front.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:32:06] That's so sweet. Um, what are three of your like highlights of the festival? Like things that you're really, really looking forward to? Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:32:17] First is basically our Main Dish Palate Pass Experience. That's what we're calling it. And that's basically the 14 to 15 chef pairings with beverage that you're going to get to experience at the main dish. We're really excited because we've paired these amazing chefs. With the multicultural beverage providers creating these collaborations that never existed before. I'm really excited about our opening family meal that is going to be, hosted by Chef Reem Assil of Reem's California. So we're really highlighting the Palestinian family meal experience, which is going to be served family style. So I'm really excited because Chef Reem is just, just a joy that cooks straight from her soul onto the plate. So I'm excited to experience that intimate dinner. And I'm really excited about our Brown is Beautiful after party. So that's the one that's sponsored by like Bacardi and Doucet and Case Tea. So this whole mix of like spirits and also non alcoholic Asian tea and putting together this fashion forward after party experience where people just get to come and enjoy and get down.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:33:26] That sounds great. We've talked about the wine and the food and a little bit about the music too and how important that is. I know that there's also a marketplace. What can people look forward to from the marketplace?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:33:38] Yeah, we're so excited about featuring about 15 retail vendors who are going to be selling some amazing array of goods. So like jewelry, cookbooks, we're even going to have a vendor doing like massages and chiropractic services. So there's going to be this huge mix of vendors. selling their goods as well, selling some art, selling pastries too. If you can't get enough from the tastings, you can buy extras on the side. So there'll be so much stuff for you to explore in this 40, 000 square foot space at CL.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:34:12] Beautiful. Is there anything else that you'd like to share?   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:34:15] I think the last thing is I just really want people to come as themselves in whatever capacity that is and really just to be ready and open to meet whoever comes along. I know it sometimes can be hard for folks to get out nowadays, can feel really introverted, and we really just want people to feel like they're coming to a giant family party where we're all welcome.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:34:38] Amazing. And yeah, I'm sure it is going to feel just like that and so much joy and how important it is in this time to have a space that is centered on joy and, building up our resilience and resistance through just things that are fun and pleasurable and full of culture.   Gina Mariko Rosales: [00:34:57] Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And centering our cultures and our stories center stage.   Miko Lee: [00:35:03] Next up listen to StayGo from DARKHEART,  A Concert Narrative by singer, & songwriter Golda Sargento playing at Bindlestiff through May   MUSIC   That was the voice of Golda Sargento from the new Filipina|x|o Futurism Punk Rock Sci-Fi  DARKHEART at Bindlestiff thru May.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:39:04] Hi, everyone. I'm so happy to be joined by Thuy Trần, the Festival and Exhibitions Director of CAAM, or Center for Asian American Media. Thanks so much for joining me, Thúy.   Thúy Trần: [00:39:15] Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:39:18] We're so excited too. We're such big fans of CAAM and, you know, long time participants and audience members, what do we have in store for CAAM 2024 this year?   Thúy Trần: [00:39:29] Yes. So CAAMFest is May 9th through the 19th is the leading showcase for Asian American talent and film, food, and music. And we're probably the only festival where you can see this large concentration of Asian American media. So the last few years we've expanded to having multidisciplinary programs with food and music. And what's really important for us is, you know, curating, A holistic and experiential experience for a guest, whether you're a filmmaker, artist or audience member. and so I guess a couple of things that, I feel really excited about this coming year. Of course, we have our opening night this is going to be at a brand new venue, new to Camp Fest, we'll be at the Palace of Fine Arts up in the Presidio and our opening night film is Admissions Granted, by Hao Wu and Miao Wang. and it follows the events leading up to the overturning of affirmative action and all the players that are involved. And, afterwards, there will be the opening night gala at the Asian art museum. We have some amazing chefs. And food vendors confirmed there, including Audrey Tang of Batik and Baker, their Malaysian pastry pop up, Sita's Kamai Kitchen. We also have Patty Liu from Gear of the Snake, another Asian American pop up in Berkeley, and Melissa Chu, who's the pastry chef of Grand Opening. And she used to work at Mr. Ju's. and of course you have music by DJ Dree Lee, who's the resident DJ and organizer of Honey's and Hot Sauce, and you'll frequently see them DJing at Jolene's and, you know, other venues across the Bay Area.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:40:59] Incredible. Well, that sounds really exciting. what are some upcoming dates that people need to keep in mind? Are the tickets available already, or what's kind of upcoming?   Thúy Trần: [00:41:07] Dates are available. You can get them online at camfest.Com. and, the dates are May 9th through the 19th, with most of our programming concentrated during the two weekends.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:41:17] Perfect. And what's an event or a screening that you personally are really looking forward to?   Thúy Trần: [00:41:22] I'm looking forward to a lot. I mean, of course, our centerpieces are pretty amazing. You know, we have our centerpiece documentary called Q by Jude Chehab. and that one is on May 11th at the SFMOMA, Jude made this film to save her mother, who's been deeply indoctrinated into a mysterious religious order that has has woven through three generations of their matriarchal lineage. Another film that I'm really looking forward to is, Ashima by Kenji Tsukamoto and this is about 13-year-old rock climbing prodigy Ashima. It follows her trying to solve a, I think it was like a grade 14 boulder problem, something really advanced. and she does this with her coach, who's an eccentric retired avant garde dancer who has zero professional climbing experience and also happens to be her father. So it's a really touching, tender documentary. and of course we also have our food programs as well. One of the programs this year highlights, Chef Tracy Koh from Damansara, as well Chef Emily Lim from Davao, Singapore. So they are coming together for a really specially curated menu, celebrating Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine and this will take place on May 14th at Damansara. We also have our Directions in Sound, music concert that's a collaboration with the Yerba Buena Gardens Festival, and we are highlighting Tao formerly of Tao in the Get Down, Stay Down, she's a local, Bay Area musician, and she had a CAAM funded documentary called Nobody Dies back in 2017. So we're all really excited about these programs.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:42:53] Beautiful. So many fun and exciting things coming up. So many things to do in the Bay. And we'll link to the tickets and all the other information in our show notes, too, for anyone listening who wants to figure out how to get tickets. When you were kind of building up the program for this year and going over all of the submissions, were there any themes or anything that stood out that's kind of maybe unique to this year?   Thúy Trần: [00:43:15] Definitely. This is, in election year. We want folks to go out and vote and also thinking about the social issues that are important to us. So we do have a couple of films that talk a lot about, just empowerment through community building. And so many of our stories come from their personal stories from our chefs. And we're also looking at CAAMFest as, we're shining a light on truth tellers. and thinking how we're lifting the truth of our stories, how these stories are brave and beautiful, bizarre, and they're all true of something, right? They're ours, and they're generous expressions of what impacts us, what matters, and what we long for and imagine. So those two themes were really resonant for us throughout this entire curatorial process.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:44:02] That makes so much sense. And I love the films that you highlighted. Jude is one of my really close friends and I can't wait to see her screening here in that year. You're bringing her to the Bay Area. I'm so excited for that. And I saw Ashima in the fall and I love that one too.   Thúy Trần: [00:44:15] Oh, that's so amazing. I know we're flying Jude in from out of the country. So it's going to be really special. We're actually, you know what, her mom is going to be with us as well. I know. So it's going to be really special. Jude was saying that her mom, I think she was only able to make it out for their world premiere at Tribeca. Right. And so we're, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be really incredible to have both of them on stage.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:44:41] Wow, that's gonna be, that is an event that you cannot miss, everyone listening. It's gonna be so phenomenal, and Q is truly breathtaking, as is Ashima, and I'm sure all of the other films that were programmed, and it's just so beautiful to see how diverse and unique and, you know, everything you're talking about our community is, and so much breadth and depth, so thank you so much for hosting this event and bringing us all together.   Thúy Trần: [00:45:06] Awesome. And thank you, Jalena, for again, having me and of course, like all the wonderful work and art that you create.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:45:13] Thank you. Is there anything else that you'd like to share before we wrap up?   Thúy Trần: [00:45:16] I just want to say that, you know, everyone is, of course, invited, and I just want folks to know that, yes, lifts Asian American storytellers, but ultimately it's for everyone, it's for the community as a whole, and we really encourage you to bring all of your friends, your family, tell everyone. We really rely on our community bringing folks in. It's a really special time to get folks together too. This is a great way to celebrate Asian American Heritage Month.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:45:44] Exactly. And you know, you don't have to be Asian American to celebrate the month and learning about Asian American stories from Asian American storytellers is a great way to do that.   Thúy Trần: [00:45:56] Yes, a hundred percent.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:45:58] All right. Thank you so much. Hope you have a great rest of your day.   Thúy Trần: [00:46:01] Thank you.   Miko Lee: [00:46:02] Welcome Cyn Choi to Apex express. We are so happy to have one of the co-founders of Stop AAPI Hate on Apex express.   Cyn Choi: [00:46:12] Thank you so much, Miko, for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:46:14] Can you tell us where Stop AAPI Hate comes from?   Cyn Choi: [00:46:19] Stop AAPI Hate was born out of a crisis moment for our community nearly four years ago when COVID was being racialized we decided to create a reporting center. So we can have everyday people share with us what was happening to them. With that data and those stories, we have been able to establish number one, that this was a pervasive issue that we needed to have a robust response to the different forms of hate and discrimination and harassment that our communities were experiencing. We've used that to advocate for meaningful change and we've done that in a myriad of ways at the grassroots level, policy, local, state, and national level.   Miko Lee: [00:47:04] And you have grown with your collaborators Stop AAPI Hate from a conversation around a table about what was going on in the world into a national movement. What does that feel like for you to be a founder of this?   Cyn Choi: [00:47:17] It's really humbling, and I think what's really important to note is that, of course we have experienced racism, discrimination, ,and violence throughout our history, and it defines our experience in many ways, and that our movement Is robust and diverse, and it's both about we are shaping this country the ideals of a multiracial democracy. And obviously, we have contributed in ways that I think are really important to lift up and to celebrate. And unfortunately, that's not really taught within our public education system. It's not what we talk about within our families. And that is something that I think is really important to note, especially in light of AAPI Heritage Month.   Miko Lee: [00:48:13] Can you tell me a little bit about what AAPINH Heritage Month means to you personally?   Cyn Choi: [00:48:19] I think Heritage Month becomes a time where we get to focus on our history which includes our history of resilience, resistance and solidarity, where we get to in our own words and share with our own stories what that means. It allows. others to have exposure. And so we think that focusing on our heritage and what that all means within the month of May is really just our opportunity to share what that means for us.   Miko Lee: [00:48:49] Thank you for sharing that. I wanna step back and ask a question about you, and I am wondering who you are, who your people are, and what is the legacy that you carry with you from your people?   Cyn Choi: [00:49:03] First and foremost I have to name that I am a daughter of immigrants. My parents came to the United States, to California specifically in the early sixties. And they benefited from the lifting up of really severe restrictions. quotas that allowed my family and so many others so I think that's incredibly important and the legacy of the civil rights movement that really pushed for and advocated for these kinds of changes. It continues to define who I am in terms of how I see the world. And it really does inspire me in terms of my advocacy work. It makes sense that I have been concerned about removing barriers and opening up opportunities for immigrants, for refugees, for women and girls and people who have been traditionally locked out. And so I know that my inspiration and my grounding comes from that. My people, that's an interesting one for me to answer because I'm a part of so many different communities, a community of activists, a community of mothers who wants to raise their children so that they are compassionate I am a part of a community of organizational leaders that is really trying to make sure that whatever we do, we are Thinking seven generations ahead, what are we trying to build? What are we trying to nurture? And for me, that's not just a privilege, but it certainly is a feeling of responsibility. So I'm a part of a lot of communities that make me feel grounded and accountable to.   Miko Lee: [00:50:42] Thank you, Cyn. Can you share with us this new campaign that Stop AAPI Hate is showcasing during our Heritage Month?   Cyn Choi: [00:50:50] We have been working on a new campaign called Spread AAPI Love. It's a project of Stop AAPI Hate, and it's specifically for AAPI Heritage Month. It's a storytelling campaign that amplifies the voices of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. It's about stories of resilience, it's celebration, solidarity, resistance. It's from everyday people, it's from community members. We want to hear from our communities. It's also about highlighting those in our community who represent many of the values that we uphold around solidarity, around unity around justice. and equality and it's about harnessing our joy and power and our cultural pride.   Miko Lee: [00:51:35] What inspired this campaign?   Cyn Choi: [00:51:37] After four years of emphasizing and highlighting the rise of hate and structural racism against our communities, we really wanted to center more affirmative narratives. Of who we are and the power that we have to create change. We are not victims of hate. We are more than a series of tragic headlines. We are a richly diverse group of people. And again that is about joy. It's about our power. It's about our collective power and a celebration of our diversity and with that it is pride and the sense that we have come from somewhere. That we have journeyed, we are still on this journey of establishing belonging, in a sense that we have collective fate and shared fate, not just amongst and within our AAPI communities, but with other communities as well.   Miko Lee: [00:52:31] And what do you hope that the community will understand or walk away with after hearing some of these stories?   Cyn Choi: [00:52:37] One of the things that we're really trying to uplift is, that we have to focus beyond acts of hate, that it is about, as I said, our power and joy, but also that We need to tend to healing from this trauma. We need to be able to sustain ourselves because this work is long term and we also need to uplift the fact that. It's not just visibility. But it's about what do we do in these moments. So it's about mobilizing community members to take action. There's aspects of it where it's about representation. We want to amplify the voices, the many voices and perspectives and experiences. So that our community members feel seen. and heard and represented. Again, it's about healing. So we want to really promote this idea that we can heal, that we can overcome moving from a place of anger to really be anchored in love. from a place of love. And that needs to be our driving motivation. It's about the narrative change. What are the stories that we're able to tell? From our own voice. It's about being affirmative about the richness and diversity of our communities and that we have never been a monolith and that it's important that we also uplift those that tend to be underrepresented within our communities.   Miko Lee: [00:53:59] And how can people get involved in this campaign?   Cyn Choi: [00:54:02] One of the fundamental ways that we're hoping to engage with people is we're going to invite people to share their stories. And so we have a campaign microsite. It's spreadaapilove.org. This is where we're going to feature stories. People can submit stories, video, audio, art, photography. We're going to highlight some amazing people who have turned. A tragedy or an experience of racism into something positive. We also want to just hear everyday stories about what makes you feel proud. What makes you, what do you want to lift up about your experience, your family's history? And it could be something as simple as cooking together. It could be as simple as understanding your family's contribution, whether it's in your local community or in the schools, in your neighborhoods.   Miko Lee: [00:54:53] Cyn, I understand that there has been some research that's been recently released around some of the work of Stop AAPI Hate. Can you share with us about that research and what it says?   Cyn Choi: [00:55:02] Another aspect of our research and data collection is we also do nationally representative surveys. And one of the things that we wanted to learn more about is what really motivates people when it comes to taking action against racial injustice, and our research shows that APS are actually more motivated By positive factors like hope acts of solidarity and cultural pride and some of the statistics that I want to share with you, which was really enlightening to me is when we asked them about if this is motivating 81 percent said that hope for a better future for younger generations was really motivating. It was one of the top 72 percent said that seeing the collective efforts of AAPIs to combat racism, that was number two. And then 69 percent said that feeling strongly connected to their ethnic and racial identity. And so that could take many different forms. And then finally what was a motivating factor? To get involved to take action was, of course, their own direct experiences with hate, and that was roughly a little over 60 percent. And so what that really tells us is that we need to share more affirmative stories about how everyday people are choosing to be grounded in love, to take affirmative steps, to do acts of care, of solidarity to feel that they are doing this as part of a larger movement. And that is really driving in large part our spread API love campaign and the work that we're doing every day.   Miko Lee: [00:56:40] Thank you. It's so important to hear positive stories and hear about the work that's going on in the community. Thank you so much for joining us today. We will put a link to the campaign on our website so people can access this and share their own stories. Thank you so much, Cyn, for joining us today.   Cyn Choi: [00:56:57] Thank you, Miko.   Miko Lee: [00:56:59] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more . We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Hien Nguyen, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Nate Tan, Paige Chung, Preti Mangala-Shekar, and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Miko Lee and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.     The post APEX Express – 5.2.24 – Celebrating AAPINH Month! appeared first on KPFA.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host editor Swati Rayasam continues to highlight the podcast Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owemma Church. They embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, Gabriel and Estella gave a quick introduction and talked about wayfinding in the context of their work. Tonight on the podcast they're talking about anti-blackness in the PI community with Courtney Savali Andrews and Jason Fennel. Just a quick note that both Courtney and Jason's audio quality isn't the best on this podcast. So it might get a little bumpy. Enjoy the show. Episode Transcripts – Anti-blackness in the PI Community with Courtney-Savali Andrews and Jason Finau Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening everyone. You're listening to APEX express Thursday nights at 7:00 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we're going to continue to highlight the podcast continental shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owemma Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, Gabriel and Estella gave a quick introduction and talked about wayfinding in the context of their work. Tonight on the podcast they're talking about anti-blackness in the PI community with Courtney Savali Andrews and Jason Fennel. Just a quick note that both Courtney and Jason's audio quality isn't the best on this podcast. So it might get a little bumpy. Enjoy the show.   Courtney-Savali Andrews & intro music: [00:01:32] These issues are fluid, these questions are fluid. So I mean, I had to go and try get a PHD just to expand conversation with my family .   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:01:51] How do we uproot anti-blackness in API spaces? On today's episode, we explore this critical question with two incredible guests. Courtney and Jason share their stories, experiences, and reflections on ways our API communities can be more affirming of black identity and black humanity.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:13] What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo'u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, and uso.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:02:23] What's good, family? This is Gabriel, kumusta? Pronouns he/him.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:29] I have the great pleasure tonight of introducing our guest today, Jason Finau and Courtney-Savali Andrews. Jason is a social worker with a focus on mental health and substance abuse based in San Francisco. Courtney is an assistant professor of musicology at Oberlin College in Ohio. But I also want to be very intentional about not centering professions above who we are and who we come from. So I'm going to go to Jason first. Jason, please share with us who you are, how you identify and who are your people.   Jason Finau: [00:02:58] Hi everyone. Estella, Gabriel, again, thank you so much for hosting us in this space. My name is Jason. I identify as black and Samoan. My father is a black American from Mississippi and my mother is from American Samoa, specifically in the village of Nua and Sektonga. As a military, brat kind of grew up back and forth between Hawaii and Southern California. So I have a very strong love for the ocean and where my peoples come from. So, very excited to be on your podcast.   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:03:27] [Speaking Samoan] Tālofa lava I am Courtney-Savali Andrews from Seattle, Washington. I identify as an African American Samoan. My father is from Seattle, born and raised in Seattle, from Opelika, Alabama. That's where his roots are, and my mother is from American Samoa from the villages of Nwoma Sitsona and Aminawe. And Jason and I are maternal cousins.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:03:59] I did not know that. [Laughs] Good to know. Actually, just for some context, Jason and Courtney, you were one of my blessings in 2020. I received an email message about a space called Black + Blue in the Pacific, and it was a flier for a Zoom gathering with other black Pacifica peoples and I jumped on the call, not knowing what to expect, but it was only one of two times I can remember in my entire life feeling truly seen as black Samoan, and not having to separate those two or shrink any part of myself or who I am. So Jason, can you please share what the space is about and how it came to be?   Jason Finau: [00:04:42] Sure. That warms my heart that that was your reaction to participating in that space. So this was kind of born out of all of the protests against racial injustices across the country, especially with George Floyd and the other countless, unfortunately, countless deaths of black men and women at the hands of police brutality. And EPIC, which is the Empowering Pacific Island Communities, a nonprofit organization out in Long Beach reached out to me to kind of talk about how we can address anti-blackness within the Pacific Island communities in speaking with Tavae Samuelu, who is the executive director of EPIC and Teresa Siagatonu who is an amazing creative poet, artist, everything. We got together, started talking about like, well what was the real purpose for this group? Why are they reaching out to me specifically in the work that I do? And I think that part of that came from the fact that I am a licensed clinical social worker and that I do have a background in mental health and working in trauma, generational trauma and looking at how we as human beings look to take care of ourselves in a community that we as black human beings look to take care of ourselves in a community that doesn't value who we are and what that looks like for those of us who belongs to two different communities, one being the black and then the other being the Pacific Island community. And then even, you know, bringing that down even further to the, within the Pacific Island community, being in the Polynesian community and then being specifically in the Samoan community.   So in talking with that, the first person I thought about when they asked me to facilitate a group where we can gather other individuals who identified as being black and Pacific Islander, the first person I thought about co-facilitating this group with was my cousin Courtney-Savali Andrews. Just given the fact that she has done so much in research and education and understanding about PI cultures, with the work that she's done here in the States, as well as out in the Pacific, out in New Zealand and Samoa, and I'll let her talk more about that, but this is another part of the reasons why I thought about her instantly, and also because she and I have had these conversations about what it means to be black and Samoan, and to identify as both, and to sometimes have to navigate being one over the other in spaces, and even in spaces where It's a white space and having to figure out like which one are we like code switching between. So in thinking about this group and in thinking about this space, you know, one of the larger conversations that came out of those who engage in this group, that we have every second Tuesday of the month is that representation of seeing other folks who are also black and Pacific Islander who aren't related to us. And so these are the conversations that Courtney and I have had. I've had the same conversations with other first cousins who also happened to be black and Samoan, but I've never actually have met like one hand I can count on how many times I've met another person who identified as black and Pacific Islander. And so being able to host this space and to focus it, to start off that focus on anti-blackness and to talk about how we're all working to deal with what it means to say Black Lives Matter when someone who visually presents as Samoan or someone who visually presents as Tongan or any other of the Pacific Islands. Like, what does it mean for them to say Black Lives Matter, when those of us who identify as both black and Pacific Islanders aren't really feeling how that message is as substantial as they may be trying to, to come across.   Being able to gather in a space where we see other folks who look like us, who shared experiences that were so similar to what we have shared and what we have gone but also very different. And looking at how, you know, some folks grew up identifying primarily with the Samoan culture, whereas other folks grew up primarily identifying with the black culture and not being able to reconcile either one. So seeing that spectrum of experiences was able to provide us with an opportunity to grow for each other, to support each other, and to learn from each other. I was very thankful and grateful for having, for EPIC being able to step in and seeing that as an organization that does focus on empowering Pacific Island communities that they understood that when we look at the micro communities within that larger macro level of a PI community, looking at that individual black and PI cohort and understanding that that experience is different than the general experience. And so they wanted to make sure that we're facilitating those conversations, that we're holding safe spaces for those conversations, and that we're encouraging those conversations. So I really do appreciate them so much for that, and not taking it upon themselves to tell us how we should be engaging in these conversations, how we should be feeling, and asking us what we should be doing to get PIs to understand the impact of anti-blackness, within the, in the PI community for us personally.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:09:29] And as you were talking, I was laughing at myself thinking, yeah, I can count on one hand too, aside from my brothers, the other black Samoans or Polys I know, and I had an experience in college as a freshman, Cal State Northridge, in my EOP cohort. I met another Leilani, Leilani is my middle name, I met another Leilani who happened to be half black, half Samoan, also from South LA. And we saw each other and ran to each other like we were long lost siblings or something [laughs] and we just knew, and it was the first time I had seen someone who looked like me that was not The Rock. [Jason laughs] Like, the only person to look to, that was yeah. I don't know, it wasn't enough to have, you know, The Rock as my only representation. I appreciate him, but definitely wasn't enough. And shout out to EPIC and Tavae, because I think I mentioned earlier, being in Black + Blue was, it was like the second time in my life. I can say that I felt seen and one of the first times I felt seen as Samoan was at 30. I happen to be in a workshop led by Tavae on organizing PI communities. That was the first time I met her, but I left her session like in tears because I felt a whole part of whatever was happening in the conversation, the festivities, I could be like my full self.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:11:00] And those spaces are so important for us, right? To have that community, to be able to connect. So Jason, I appreciate you sharing that origin story of Black + Blue. And my question for Courtney actually, to bring in some of your experience into the space. Why was it important to create or forge a space such as this one with Black + Blue?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:11:22] Well, I will say that I've had the privilege of a different experience having met several African American and African Pacific Islanders in Seattle through my experience in the US. And I mean, this goes all the way back to my childhood. I went to a predominantly, and this is going to sound pretty interesting, but in the 70s, I went to a predominantly Filipino-Italian parish that was budding a Samoan congregation and that particular congregation was connected to the Samoan congregational church that my mother was affiliated with. So, of course, this is family based, right? But growing up in that particular setting, I was affiliated with many cultural dance groups, particularly Polynesian dance troupes and such, and through those various communities I would run into many particularly Samoan and African American children. So that was something that was pretty normalized in my upbringing. On the other side of that, my father's family was very instrumental in various liberation movements, affiliations with the Black Panthers. And so I also grew up in a very black nationalist leaning family. So, I mean, I couldn't run away from just anything that had to do with considering identity politics and what it meant to be “both and” so the wrestle started really early with me. I also want to say that because I was indoctrinated in so many questions of what it meant to be whatever it is that I was at the time. Cause you know these issues are fluid and the questions are fluid. So that extended all the way throughout even my educational journey having pursued not just a musical degree, but also degrees in cultural studies. It was the only place that I could really wrestle and engage with literature that I was already introduced to as a child, but to, you know, have opportunities to deep dive into that literature, highlighting certain figures, engaging with the writers of these literature. So by the time I got to college, it was piano performance and Africana studies for me. In the arts, through my music through musical theater performance, my Polynesian dance background, it all just kind of jumbled up into this journey of always seeking spaces that allow for that type of inquiry.   So, after undergrad, this turns into a Fullbright study and then eventually a PHD in Music and Pacific and Samoan studies. In that journey, I did not think that the outcome would be as rich as it became. I did seek out one of my supervisors, who was Teresia Teaiwa. A very prominent poet, spoken word artist and scholar, and she was the founder of the Pacific Studies program at Victoria University in Wellington, New Zealand. So I went to study underneath her. She actually is African American Banaban so from the Kiribati islands and amongst her like astounding output of work, she reached out to me and four other African American Pacific women historian artists, like we all share the same general identities to start an organization, or at least an affinity conversationalist group, called Black Atlantic, Blue Pacific. This was back in 2014 when she started the conversation with us again, I had an opportunity to now, across the world, connect with other African American Pacific peoples that were rooted in other spaces. So I was the one who was, you know, born and raised in the US But then we had Joy Enomoto an African American Hawaiian who's based in Hawaii. Ojeya Cruz, African American [?] and LV McKay, who is African American Maori based in Aotearoa. So we got together and started having very specific conversations around our responses to Black Lives Matter as it was gaining much momentum in 2015. And it was my supervisor Teresia, that said, “You have to open up about how you feel,” and particularly because I was so far away from what home was for me, she offered up a space for me to not only explore further what my response to the movement was, but also just my identity in tandem with the rest of them. So we actually began to create performance pieces along with scholarly writing about that particular moment and went to this festival of Pacific arts in 2016 which was in Guam and pretty much had a very ritualistic talk. It wasn'tinteractive, it was our space to share what our experience and stories were with an audience who did not have a chance to engage with us on it. It was us just claiming our space to say that we exist in the first place. And that was a very powerful moment for me and for the others. So to connect this back to four years later, when Jason reaches out about Black + Blue in the Pacific, the name of this group actually came from the publication that we put together for that 2016 FESPAC presentation. It really was a moment that I actually didn't think would extend out in the ways that it has, but it also felt like a duty to extend that conversation and Teresia Teaiwa has since passed, but it felt like, you know, this is what, this is the work that, that I've given you to do. So it just felt very natural to join with my cousin in this work and realize what this conversation could be across the water again, back home in the US.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:18:09] Listening to you I was I don't want to say envious, but I didn't have that same experience growing up. And, you know, oftentimes I wonder where I would be in my identity crisis, which seems like it has lasted for so long, if I had shared in similar experience as a child. I grew up in predominantly black communities and all black apostolic school and I just, I didn't have other, I mean I ran up to the one girl I saw as a college freshman and squeezed her. So that tells you a lot, but I shared similar experiences as an undergrad or in college in majoring in black studies, majoring in theater, musical theater and that being the space where I got to at least express some of who I am or who I want it to be, but definitely trying to create what you experienced or had for my daughter now, trying to make sure that she gets to be as pro black and black and proud as she wants to be rocking her Angela Davis fro while also wearing her Puletasi, trying really hard to make sure that she has all of that. Growing up, I never felt like I was welcomed in Samoan or Poly spaces or fully in black spaces either. I felt like folks had to make a point to other me or erase part of my identity for their convenience. And it's only now that I am learning who my Samoan relatives are, what are our namesake or the villages that my family comes from and reconnecting with aunts and uncles and my grandparents through the powers of Facebook. But over the years, it's been a long like push and pull. And it's because our last names are, our names are very distinctive. And so when you put that name in there suddenly like, “Oh, I found all these relatives.” Like I didn't have to do the ancestry thing because you put the name in on Facebook and all of a sudden you find all your cousins and you're seeing childhood pictures where like your own kid can't tell who's who so I know we're related. You know what I mean? But anyway, like over the years it's been this like back and forth of me deleting relatives and then, you know, letting them come back because I don't know how to broach the conversation about their anti-blackness. I don't know what to tell them when they post something that is very racist and absolutely not okay. And I don't know what to do other than, you know, I'm just going to delete you and then maybe 2 years from now, I'll, as you as a friend, again, we could try this one more time. And I have one aunt in particular, a great aunt who there was just a misunderstanding. I didn't respond to a message right away after not seeing her since I was maybe 5 or 6. I can't remember. But in my 20s, I'm getting married, she's sending me messages and I didn't respond right away. And the response I got included her calling me the N word. And so then I'm like, “Oh, okay.” I was like, trying to open up and let you all back into my life. And here we are again. So I'm done. And so I spent a lot of time, like picking and choosing who I was going to let in or not and so I've started this journey at 30. I want to learn my language. I want to figure out who is in my family tree. Who are my people? Where do I come from? And be selective about who I choose to actually grow relationships with. Like I can still know who they are, where they come from, where I come from, what my roots are, and also make choices about who gets to be in my life. And I'm only just now realizing that at 32, as I try to learn my language and reclaim what is mine, what belongs to me. All of that aside, can you relate to any of that? And if so, is there an experience that you feel comfortable sharing?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:22:00] I absolutely relate to that, to the extent, I mean, I had to go and try to get a PhD just to expand conversation with my family and I had to do it across the water. I got to a point where, just asking questions, about, you know, cultural matters, or even trying to navigate my way through a family event, while I've had many wonderful experiences, just trying to, again dig deep to understand why are we who we are, why are our family issues what they are those kinds of things, I would always hit a particular wall that was met with either like, “Why do you even care?” Or “Oh, that's not important.” But it was, this is not important for you. And I, you know, took that with a lot of like, “Well, what's that mean? I can learn anything.” And then again, that, that comes from this, like I said, black nationalist attitude of I am wholly wonderful, just in my skin as I am. Therefore, I'm smart. I'm, you know, all of those kinds of things. So it became a learning quest for me to say, not only am I going to go after learning as much as I can. I'm going to get the highest degree you could possibly get in it only to now reach a point. I mean, I'm 10 years into this program and it's been the one-two punch all the way through. And now I'm on the other side of this journey, realizing that even in that quest, this really doesn't change many of my conversations if I go back into my family, nor is it really looked upon as a notable achievement, which is to be questioned because it's like, I've done everything that I possibly can. But at the same time, it really does feel like this is the black experience as it connects to respectability politics. On another side of thing I suppose, try to aspire to be a race woman for the Pacific and specifically the Samoan identity. And that's just a really, really tall order. Right. All that to say, yes, I absolutely identify and realize that my conversation can only be had with those who are open to have it. I think that right now in this particular moment, we have more Pacific peoples and more people in our families that are willing to at least sit at the table and have conversation because they have new language around what they are wanting to know and what they would like to see for their own community. So that's really, really refreshing and inspiring.   Jason Finau: [00:24:46] I agree. I definitely [have] a lot of experience and feeling in feeling othered and feeling that my black identity was conveniently left out in a lot of conversations and a lot of learning lessons, I think, growing up. In contrast to Courtney's upbringing, I was born and raised on the Samoan side. It was everything Samoan related. My first language was Samoan. My mom stopped speaking Samoan to me at home because she recognized that I was struggling in school early on like in pre- k, kindergarten, first grade, because I couldn't keep up with the other students and they didn't have ESL for Samoan speaking kids. So, I think as a protective factor, my mother just started to distance me from the Samoan language in order to excel in school. And I think that a lot of having been able to grow up in a very large Samoan family and engaging in a lot of the traditional activities and cultural practices and doing the dances and going to a local [?] church. Having that has always been great but I think that seeing the way or listening to the way that other Samoans would refer to their own family members who were black and Pacific Islander or black and Samoan in those families, a lot of the times the language is just so derogatory, but they, that language never used to, or was never directed at me. And I think that part of that was because that people knew who my mother was and they knew who my grandparents were and I think I was insulated from a lot of that negative talk, negative behaviors against those who identified as black and then like the children that were products of those Samoan and black relationships. I reflect on that quite often because I think that when listening to a lot of the stories that I've been able to bear witness to in our black and PI group. You know, like I mentioned before that we are seeing like two different, two different upbringings, two different ways that people experience their lives as being black and Samoan. And for me, it was like, because I was wrapped in that Samoan culture, that black identity of mine was never really addressed or talked about. That then it made me feel like I just, I'm a Samoan boy. I don't identify as someone who was black. I didn't identify as someone who was black or was comfortable with identifying as someone who was black until my 20s. Late 20s, early 30s, you know when I introduced myself, it was always Samoan first black second, everything that I did, instead of joining the Black Student Union group, I joined all the Asian and Pacific Island groups at any school that I went to again, as I said, being a military brat, I went to a lot of schools growing up before college. And then in college a lot of different universities. And when I went to those programs, like in high school and junior high, I'd always be, I would always join the Asian Pacific Island groups because I didn't feel comfortable being a part of the black, any of the Black Student Unions or any black affinity groups, because again like I said my for me internally, I was Samoan and that's where I wanted to be. I didn't recognize for myself because I could see it in the mirror that I presented as someone like a black male and I think that part of the reason why I also steered more towards Asian and Pacific Island groups was because I wanted people to see me as this black guy walking into your Asian and Pacific Island group, who also is Samoan but you don't know that until I tell you. And that was for me to share and for me to just sit there for them to stare at me until I made that truth known. And that was my way of addressing that issue within the PI community. But it was also a way for me to run away from that black identity to hide from that black identity because I wasn't, I didn't want to be identified that way when I was in the API group. It's because I wanted to be identified as Samoan and not black, even though I presented. So in thinking about how a lot of those conversations went, I think one situation in particular really stuck out for me. And that's when I did a study abroad in New Zealand during undergrad and, you know, there's this whole thing about the term mea uli in Samoan to describe someone who is black and Samoan and that was the term that I remember using and being told. As a kid, growing up, my mom used it, didn't seem like there was an issue. All family members, everyone in the community is using it. So I just assumed that is exactly how it was. I never had the wherewithal to think about how to break down that word, mea uli, and think of it as like a black thing. So I was in New Zealand studying abroad and I met some students, some Samoan students in one of my classes. They invited me to their church, the local [?] church. I was like, oh great, I'll go to church while I'm here. Satisfy my mom. She's back home in Oceanside, California, telling me that I need to go to church, that I need to focus on my studies. So I do this. I go with them. And as they're introducing me to folks at their church, when I describe myself as mea uli I mean, you can hear a pin drop. It was like, these people were I don't know, embarrassed for me, embarrassed for themselves to hear me use that word to describe myself. It was just, I was, I don't think I've ever been more embarrassed about my identity than I was in that one moment, because then my friend had to pull me off to the side, just like “Oh, we don't use that word here.” Like she's like, schooling me on how derogatory that term was for those Samoans in New Zealand who identify as black and Samoan. And mind you, the friends that I was with, they were, they're both sides of the family are Samoan, and so this is a conversation that they're having with me as people who aren't, who don't identify as black and Samoan. And so then when I, I brought that back to my mom and I was just like, “Did you know this? Like, how could you let me go through life thinking this, saying this, using this word, only to come to this point in my adult life where now I'm being told that it's something derogatory.” That was a conversation that my mom and I had that we were forced to have. And I think for her, very apologetic on her end, I think she understood where I was coming from as far as like the embarrassment piece. But from her, from her perspective and her side of it, she didn't speak English when she first got to the United States either. She graduated from nursing school in American Samoa, had been in American Samoa that whole time, born and raised, came to the United States, California, didn't speak a lick of English, and was just trying to figure out her way through the whole navigating a prominently white society and trying to figure out English. And so I think language was one of the least of her worries, as far as that might have been because it's just like coupled on with a bunch of things. I mean, this is a Samoan woman who doesn't speak very much English, who is now in the military, in the Navy. So, in an occupation that is predominantly male, predominantly white and predominantly English speaking. And so, for her, there was a lot of things going on for herself that she had to protect herself from. And I think she tried to use some of those same tactics to protect me. But not understanding that there is now this added piece of blackness, this black identity that her child has to navigate along with that Samoan identity. And so, we've had some really great conversations around the choices that she had to make that she felt like in the moment were the right choices to keep me safe, to get me what I needed in order to graduate high school on time unlike a lot of our other family members, to go to college, you know, again, being the first one to have a bachelor's degree and the first one to have a master's degree, within our family tree. And so, a lot of the successes that I've had in life to be able to get to this point and have these conversations and to facilitate a group like black and PI, Black + Blue in the Pacific and to be on a podcast with all of you, were the sacrifices and choices that my mom had to make back.   I say all that because those, the choices that she had to make, she wasn't able to make them in an informed way that would have promoted my black identity along with my Samoan identity. And so having to navigate that on my own. I didn't grow up with my dad, so I don't have any connection. I didn't have any connection to the black side of my family. And so I didn't have, and then growing up in Hawaii and in Southern California, primary like San Diego, in the education piece, like the majority of my teachers were white, or in San Diego, a lot of them were Latin, Latinx, and then in Hawaii, a lot of them, they were either white or they were some type of Asian background like a lot of Chinese, a lot of Japanese teachers, but I didn't have any, I never had a Polynesian teacher, Pacific Islander teacher, and I never had a black teacher until I got to college, and then seeing that representation also had an impact on me. I think one of my most favorite sociology professors at California State University in San Marcos. Dr. Sharon Elise was just this most phenomenal, eye opening, unapologetically black woman. And it was just like the first time I was ever able to like be in the company of that type of presence and it was glorious. And I think it was part of the reason why I switched from pre med to social work. In thinking about, and going back to your original question about an experience of being othered or feeling like your black identity is erased in that company. Like I said, I walk confidently amongst and within Samoan communities, but not nearly as confidently as I do in black spaces. And even when I'm in those Samoan spaces, I'll walk into it, but then the first thing I'll do is share my last name. And then the moment I say my last name, then it's like, okay, now we can all breathe. I've been accepted. They know who I am because of who my family is based on the name that I provide. When I go into a black space, I don't have that. I don't have that convenience. I don't have that luxury. And so I think that's another reason why I was okay with allowing that black identity, my black identity to be ignored, to be silenced, to be othered because it was just easier. I think I had a lot more luxuries being on the Samoan side, than being on the black side. And now where I am today, both personally and professionally, a much, much more confident conversation can be had for myself, with myself about my identity. And then having those same conversations with my family and with my friends and in thinking about hard conversations with family members around anti-blackness, around the use of derogatory language, or around just the fact like, because we are half Samoan that we could never fully appreciate the Samoan culture and tradition. But I look at my cousins who are full Samoan, who barely speak the language, who barely graduated from high school or like are in situations where they aren't able to fully utilize an identity that can bring them the fullness or richness of their background. I'm like, all right, well, if you want to have conversations about someone who was half versus full, and then looking at those folks who are back on the island and what their perception of full Samoans are on the continental US and all of those things, like, there's so many layers between the thought processes of those who consider themselves Samoan or even just Pacific Islander, and what does that mean to them based on where they're from. And then you add that biological piece, then it's like, okay, well those who are on the continental US or outside of American Samoa or the independent nation of Samoa, what does that mean for them to be Samoan [unintelligible].   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:35:15] One of the things that you said that really resonated with me was when you were sharing the story of how your mother had, as you said, tactics to protect you as she navigated in these predominantly white spaces. That reminds me of a quote by Dr. Cornel West, who talked about having our cultural armor on. And when Courtney was sharing her story, I was thinking about how there's also educational armor and linguistic armor, and we put on layers of armor to protect ourselves in these white supremacist institutions and spaces. So both of you sharing your story and journey really was powerful for me, and also grounding it in the formative years of your educational journey and your race consciousness journey. One of the pivotal factors in my evolution and my race consciousness was being a part of the Black Student Union in my undergraduate school. And I'm Filipino, my mother's from Manila, my father's from Pampanga province. And it was actually the black community that embraced and raised my consciousness around my own liberation as an Asian person, as a Filipino person. So I'm a student in many ways, and my intellectual and spiritual evolution was really informed by the black liberation movement.   Swati Rayasam: [00:36:43] You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. Coming up is “March 4 Education” on the Anakbayan Long Beach May Day mixtape.   SONG   Swati Rayasam: [00:37:03] That was “Find my Way” by Rocky Rivera on her Nom de Guerre album. And before that was “March 4 Education” on the Anakbayan Long Beach May Day mixtape. And now back to the ConShifts podcast.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:44:12] So this is all very powerful and grounds us back in the topic that we're trying to unpack. So I have a question for both of you on how do we begin to interrogate anti-blackness in Asian and Pacific Island communities, specifically among Polynesians, Asians, Micronesians. How might we uproot anti-blackness in the spaces that we find ourselves?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:44:36] I think we need to start with identifying what blackness is in these conversations before we get to the anti part. Are we talking about skin? Are we talking about, you know, cultural expression? Are we talking about communities, black communities within our own respective nations? So one of the things that in thinking through this, today's conversation, you know, I was thinking that, you know, starting with identifying our indigenous black communities at home, you know, in pre-colonial times. And even as we have the development of the nation state, just seeing where people are in their understandings of those communities would be a wonderful place to start before we even get to the drama that is white supremacy in the US and how that monster manifests here and then spreads like a rash to the the rest of the colonial world. I would really start with like, what are we talking about in terms of black and blackness before we go into how people are responding in a way to be against it.   Jason Finau: [00:45:52] Yeah, that was solid Court. Definitely providing that definition of what blackness is in order to figure out exactly what anti-blackness is. Kind of adding to that is looking around at the various organizations that are out there. When we go back to the earlier examples of being in API spaces, but primarily seeing more Asian faces or Asian presenting faces, thinking about, and I'm just thinking about like our Black + Blue group, like, there are so many of us who identify as black and Pacific Islander or black and Asian. And yet the representation of those folks in spaces where nonprofit organizations, community organizations are trying to do more to advance the API agenda items to make sure that we get more access to resources for our specific communities, whether that's education, healthcare, employment resources, all of that. When we look at those organizations who are pushing that for our community, you just see such a lack of black and brown faces who are part of those conversations. And I would have to say that for those organizations and for the people who will participate in any of those activities that they promote. To look around and not see one person who presents as black and may identify as black and PI seems kind of problematic to me because, you know, I used to think that growing up in the 80s and 90s that outside of my cousins, there were no other black and PI people. I'm learning now as I get older and again with our Black + Blue group, that there are so many of us, I mean, there are folks who are older than I am. There are a number of people around the same age. And then there's so many young kids. And so for none of those folks to feel, and that is another, that was a common theme, from our group was that a lot of the folks just didn't feel comfortable in PI spaces to be if they were black in and Hawaiians might be comfortable in the Hawaiian space to speak up and say anything or in whatever Pacific Island space that they also belong to is that they just didn't feel comfortable or seen enough to be a part of those. I think you know, once we identify what blackness is within our within the broader API community, we can also look at well, you know, why aren't there more people like us, those of us who do identify as black and PI, why aren't more of us involved in these conversations, being asked to be a part of these conversations, and helping to drive a lot of the messages and a lot of the agendas around garnering resources for our community.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:48:18] One of the pieces that's really present for me, when you started asking the question on how we define blackness before we begin the conversation around anti-blackness reminded me of Steve Biko learning about the black consciousness movement in South Africa and the anti apartheid movement. I had the opportunity to travel to South Africa for global learning fellowship and started to learn more about the anti apartheid movement. But when Steve Biko discussed black consciousness as an attitude of mind and a way of life, it got me thinking in one direction while at the same time in this conversation that we're having here, when we talk about colorism with post colonial society, the Philippines being one of them, how does colorism show up? I'm wrestling that. So I just appreciate you bringing that question into the space.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:49:05] So Black + Blue, it's an affinity space for black Polys and I need to just say thank you for providing the space. It has been therapeutic and healing and again, everything I knew I needed and had no idea where to find. So I appreciate it so much. So I'm wondering, I guess, how do we create similar spaces for other folks? Or is there a need to like, does Black + Blue just exist for us? And is that enough? Or do we need to start thinking about doing more to create similar spaces for other folks? And I'll leave that to whoever wants to respond before my final question.   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:49:45] I'll just jump in and say that I think that, you know, any opportunity for folks to gather to create and wrestle through dialogue is absolutely necessary at this particular point in time with social media and a fairly new cancel culture that exists. It's really a detriment to having people understand how to connect and even connect through disagreement. So I think that there should always be space made for people to have tough conversations, along with the celebratory ones. So I'm always all for it.   Jason Finau: [00:50:23] Yeah, I would agree. I think if I've learned anything out of being able to facilitate the Black + Blue group that there is just such a desire for it and unknown and even an unknown desire. I think people, you know, didn't realize they needed it until they had it. And I think it feels unique now it being a black and Blue space, Black + Blue Pacific space. But I can see that need kind of going outside of us. How do we take the conversations that we're having with each other, the learning and the unlearning, the unpacking of experiences, the unpacking of feelings and emotions and thoughts about what we've all been through to share that with the broader Pacific Island community in a way that can steer some people away from some of the negative, behaviors that we find that can be associated in speaking of people who identify as black or African American? But I can see that as not just for those who identify as black and Pacific Islander, but also for parents of children who are black and Pacific Islander, and for the youth. So like right now our Black + Blue group is geared towards the adult population of those who identify as black and PI. But then also thinking about like the younger generation, those who are in high school or in middle school or junior high school, who are also maybe going through the same things that we all went through at that point and needing a safe space to have those conversations and kind of process those things. Because they may have a parent who may not understand, you know, if they only have their Pacific Island parent, or they're primarily identifying with their black side because they don't feel comfortable with the Pacific Island side, whatever their journey is being able to provide that for them, but then also providing a space for parents to understand where their kids may be coming from, to hear from experiences and learn and potentially provide their kids with the resources to navigate very complex ideas. One's identity journey is not simple. It is not easy. It is not quick. And so it's hard. And that is not something, I mean, and I don't expect every parent, regardless of what their children's ethnic background is, to understand what that means like for their kids. But to be able to have a space where they can talk it out with other parents. But I also see that for our Latinx and PI community. I see that for our Asian and PI community, those who identify as both being Asian and Pacific Islander. For me, that just comes from a personal experience because my mom is one of nine. And I think out of the nine, three of the kids had children with other Samoan partners, and the rest had either a black partner, has a Mexican partner, has a partner who identifies as Chinese and Japanese, and has another partner who is white. But I have cousins who are in this space, and so we can all share in the fact that, although we may not all physically identify or people may not be able to physically recognize us as Samoans, that is what we all share in common. So having that for them as well. And then, you know, right now we're in COVID. So it's been a blessing and a curse to be in this pandemic, but I think the blessing part was that we were able to connect with so many people in our group who are from across the states and even across the waters. Once we're able to move past this pandemic and go back to congregating in person, being able to have groups within your respective cities to be able to go and talk in person, whether it's in Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, you know, folks out in Hawaii and like in Aotearoa. Who wants to continue engaging with other folks that they feel comfortable identifying or who they also identify with. Do I think that there is a need? Absolutely. And I can see it just across the board whether people know it or not, I think once we put it in front of them, that is where they'll see like, “Yeah, we need that.”   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:53:57] I just wanted to also highlight, you know, a point of significance for me with this group and hopefully one that would serve as a model for other organizations and groups that may develop after this, is modeled off of cultural studies, which is the process of actually remembering and relearning things that we've things and peoples that we've forgotten and with Black + Blue in the Pacific, it's really important to me to also include, and keep the Melanesian, the black Pacific voice in that conversation to model for other peoples of color to reach out to black peoples at home, or regionally to understand and again, remember those particular cultural networks that existed in pre colonial times and even sometimes well into colonial times, as current as you know, the 1970s black liberation movements to highlight Asian and Pacific and, and, and, and other peoples that were non black, but very instrumental in that fight for liberation as a whole, but starting with black liberation first. So, I think this is a really good time in an effort towards uprooting anti-blackness to highlight just how old our relationships with black peoples and black peoples in relationship with Asians and Pacific peoples, South Asians, Southeast Asians, it just goes on and on, to say that we've been in community positively before, so we can do it again.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:55:52] That is the most perfect way to wrap up the episode in reminding us to remember, and reminding us that all of our liberation is definitely tied to black liberation that they're inextricably linked together. Thank you, Courtney. Thank you, Jason. Fa'a fatai te le lava thank you for listening.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:13] Salamat thank you for listening.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:14] We want to thank our special guests, Jason and Courtney, one more time for rapping with us tonight. We appreciate you both for being here and really helping us continue to build the groundwork for Continental Shifts Podcast.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:24] Continental Shift Podcast can be found on Podbean, Apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:30] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archive footage and grab some merch on our website.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:36] Join our mailing list for updates at conshiftspodcast.com. That's C-O-N-S-H-I-F-T-S podcast dot com and follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:52] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:56] Keep rocking with us fam, we're gonna make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, all together.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:02] Fa'fetai, thanks again. Tōfā, deuces.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:57:04] Peace, one love.   Swati Rayasam: [00:57:07] Please check out our website, kpfa.org backslash program backslash apex express. To find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Axpress is produced by Miko Lee, along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Kiki Rivera, Nate Tan, Hien Ngyuen, Cheryl Truong, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a great night. The post APEX Express – 4.11.24 – ConShifts Anti-blackness in the PI Community appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. This week we introduce our sister podcast Continental Shifts. Check out episode 1 and 2 created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture, and the ancestors. You'll hear the first two episodes of their podcast and hopefully walk away with a bit more information about them, and about wayfinding as an important mental, physical, and spiritual practice.   ConShifts Podcast – Episode 1 – Introduction TRANSCRIPTS Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express. Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening, everyone. You're listening to APEX Express Thursday nights at 7:00 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam, and I'm the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we're highlighting a podcast called Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture, and the ancestors. You'll hear the first two episodes of their podcast and hopefully walk away with a bit more information about them, and about wayfinding as an important mental, physical, and spiritual practice.   Estella Owoimaha-Church & intro music: [00:01:07] The more I continue to do a deep dive in my identity, who I am, who I aim to be, the stronger of an educator I am, but also, the more equipped I am to provide brave, co-op spaces for students where they also get to explore and craft their identity. O a'u o Estella, o [?].   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:01:37] And this is Gabriel. What's good, family? Kumusta? So fam, we're finally here. Continental Shifts Podcast. I'm excited to have this conversation with you to kick off our first episode. And just a quick run of introductions. Estella, if you wanted to introduce yourself to the people, please let the people know who you are.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:01] For sure for sure. Hey, y'all. I am Estella Owoimaha-Church and I'm a teacher in Los Angeles. I teach high school theater and I'm heavily involved as a labor union leader-organizer in our community. And, I also run a small non profit here in LA called Education Ensemble.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:02:28] All right, that's what's up, Estella. I'm Gabriel Tanglao, former educator, high school teacher up in Bergenfield, New Jersey. One of the second largest Filipino populations in New Jersey,  fun fact. And now I'm working full time with the New Jersey Education Association in the Professional Development Division. So doing some labor organizing work full time, fully focused, supporting educators across New Jersey, specifically with racial justice, racial equity, racial literacy work. I'm excited to be here for this conversation, Estella. So, we met I think over a year now. So I'm trying to recall what the origin story is of how we connected. Estella, do you remember the origin story of how we connected?   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:03:14] I am pretty sure we were in Denver at NEA leadership summit and yeah, mutual teacher friend connected us. And the conversation there was everything [laughs].   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:03:28] I feel like you and I have been connected for a while now, even though it's been short in terms of years. But the NEA Leadership Conference in Denver, for people who aren't familiar, NEA, the National Education Association, represents millions of educators across the country. And this was one of their largest conferences, the National Leadership Summit. So, when you and I had a chance to connect there, I think it was Stephanie Téllez who is one of the dope educator, labor activists that I connected through the NEA Minority Women in Leadership Training Conference. But, we had a chance to connect on some of our shared roots as an Asian and Pacific Island family. I remember the conversations at dinner, at lunch, when we were breaking bread. We really had a chance to connect on the strength of that. So, that actually is really the genesis that planted the seeds of the relationship that grew for us to be at this part.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:04:29] Right. I think, I feel like not soon, very shortly after we met, we mentioned that yo, we got to have some sort of project or something where those conversations we had get to live, but also get to grow, get to evolve, and we can sort of continue to dig into who we are as educators, as labor unionists, as PI folk and, sort of continue walking that identity journey that so many of us, are on or have gone on, together as siblings.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:05:07] Like, at one of the dinners we were talking about sharing some of our story, I was reflecting on being Filipino and just kind of unpacking what that meant in terms of Asian identity in the context of, you know, the Philippine islands being a Spanish colony for over 300 years and then that experience of being a first generation Filipino American out here in the States, in New Jersey, which doesn't have a large Filipino population, it's concentrated in a few areas. And then listening to your story of your background, do you mind if I just ask and give our audience a sense of what is your background and how are you coming to the space?   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:05:48] Word. So I am Samoan Nigerian, born and raised in South Central LA. My father is from Calabar, Nigeria. My mother is originally from Samoa—Savai, Samoa—and I am first generation born in the States. And while there was a large population of Samoan or Tongan folk in my area growing up, I grew up predominantly in black spaces, black American spaces. So even as a Nigerian American, never really having, I guess, authentically African experiences is what I can wrap that up in. And so I didn't begin really searching for my Samoan roots until, I was much older, undergrad had started, but really, I really really dug deep, took a deep dive, my late twenties and now my early thirties. I've been taking classes and trying to learn the language and reading every book I can get my hands on. Not a lot has been written on Samoa, but everything I can learn about Oceania and Pacifica trying to be as connected as I can possibly be to my indigenous roots, both in Samoa and in Nigeria.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:07:11] Word, word. And I remember part of that story as you shared it when we first met was inspiring some exploration for me to just dig deeper into my roots and start that journey. So for us to have stayed connected, for you and I to be comrades and fam and just begin to build that relationship, it inspired me to continue exploring. And that's, again, why we're here, Continental Shifts Podcast. Part of our journey here is to be sharing it with the people and lift up some voices of some dope API educators. And that last part is a transition because we mentioned and proudly named that we are educators, right? And, for folks that are listening, I would love for Estella to share if you could share what was the reason or what was the drive that brought you to education in the first place?   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:08:08] So much of my identity is also wrapped up in what I do. Alright like, those who I am and what I do are really closely linked and really feed off of the other. And I am just recently coming to the realization that the better I know myself, like the more I continue to do a deep dive in my identity, who I am, who I aim to be, the stronger of an educator I am, but also more equipped. The more equipped I am to provide brave co-op spaces with students where they also get to explore and craft their identities. And so I feel like it is definitely part of my service, like part of what I am called to do this work internally so that I can help young people also do that same lift. And it's a heavy lift that takes a really long time. Like, I mean, it wasn't until thirty-one, thirty, twenty-nine, thirty, I learned a sentence in Samoan you know [laughs] so, doing my best to remain vulnerable with students and folks listening to our show, about where I am in that process. I think not only is authentic of me to do, but keeps me honest and focused on trying to do better. And so I came to education to do my best to serve. That's really what that's about. I didn't always have the best experience in my K-12 education. And there were a handful of teachers who, I mean, we, we all have those stories, right? Those above and beyond the teachers you're still close with, the teachers you'll never forget their names. And so it just felt like no way in hell I can repay them back, other than to try to pick up where they left off and continue to build onto their legacies. So like through me, even after the day they retire, so long as I'm making them proud, then their legacy lives on.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:10:23] Love that. It's like you're paying it forward in spending your life committed to the next generation. And, also the way that you name that you came to explore your cultural roots a little more in depth later on in life, that resonated with me because I was thinking about my own journey of how I came into teaching in the first place. And, part of the role of, first generation, often the oldest in the family that I am, there's an expectation and a pressure to assimilate to the dominant culture. In part because with my parents being immigrants from the Philippines and coming to the United States, I was almost like a bridge in terms of how do we connect to this new society, this new community in which we live. And that's something that really carried on through most of my childhood. I grew up in a suburban neighborhood, middle class, good public schools in northern New Jersey. And it was a largely white population, a mixed Irish, Italian, German, but largely white population. And I was one of the few Filipino kids growing up. Fortunately I had camaraderie with a lot of folks, but part of that was just trying to make my cultural dopeness and shine and roots, right? Like I tried to shrink myself in that way because the role that I saw was to fit in. And that was through my formative years from K-12 for the most part, I think it was later on in high school that I started to you know, just start to see like, oh, okay I got a little more flavor because I'm Filipino and what is that about? Right. But just only scratching the surface of it. And the way that you named the educators that influenced you, I have to shout out the professor that changed the entire trajectory of my entire future. And, it wasn't until college at Pace University in lower Manhattan. I actually went to Pace University, Estella, I became a business major. I actually had aspirations in that American dream mythology of like, I'll do good in school, I'll become a businessman, CEO, make money, and live the American dream. Whatever that looked like in my adolescent mind, right?   But it wasn't until my sophomore year of college where I had a course that was the literature of African peoples and Professor Oseye was my professor and she was this sister that would come into the room, right? And in Manhattan, you can imagine how small the classrooms are. The buildings are all boxed in because, the value of property out there is you know, a premium. So tiny classroom, but Professor Oseye would come into the room dressed in this beautiful kente cloth and just stand in front of the classroom and just start to lecture us in a way that was so compelling and inspiring. I don't want to take up too much space but I had to shout out Professor Oseye because she introduced me to a Narrative [of] the Life of Frederick Douglass, [The] Autobiography of Malcolm X, W.E.B. Du Bois, all of the black intellectuals, revolutionaries that actually planted the seed in my mind on liberation, and it was actually the black liberation struggle through college that allowed me to become aware and conscious of my own journey and the society in which we live, which put me on a path to become a political science major, became very active in student organizations, specifically the Black Student Union. And again, it was the black liberation struggle and the Black Student Union that embraced me and all of the energy and cultural awareness that I brought from a different lens, and that put me on track to fall in love with education in a way that carried me into teaching. And to close the loop on the story, I ended up teaching at Bergenfield High School, which was right next to the town that I grew up in but Bergenfield was a larger Filipino population. So, full circle, coming back to the community, but specifically rooted in my own cultural community. That's kind of the story that took me into teaching and a lot of what you shared in your story .   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:15:03] The exact same thing happened to me too. Undergrad, I went to Cal State Northridge and was, I mentioned I'm a theater teacher, absolute theater nerd, was definitely a theater major, but picked up Africana Studies, Pan African studies as a second major. And it was my professors in that department, specifically my mentor, Dr. Karin Stanford, who, yeah, put me on black liberation [laughs]. And it opened up a whole, and it wasn't even just that It was also digging deep into hip hop studies, hip hop ed, which just busted open a whole new world of insight. And again, being super involved with those organizations on campus. We did have a Poly[nesian] group, but, and I think this is something or leads us into why this show now, very often growing up if ever I got the privilege or the chance to be in an API specific space, it was not always a space where I felt safe, right? It was not always a space I felt fully welcome. And I couldn't quite put my finger on it until being an Africana Studies major, like then I could process and really think that through and recognize this is your anti-blackness showing and it's not a reflection of me or who I am.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:16:35] I think when we first connected was talking about how we in the API community need to do the work of attacking anti-blackness within that space, right? How do we unpack that? What is it that puts us into the position around the model minority myth of being a racial wedge between white supremacy, anti-blackness, right? Like, how is it that we need to engage our Asian and Pacific Island brothers and sisters within our communities? To be able to attack that anti-black sentiment that is resonant in American culture, right? That's part of it, right? It's an ingratiating yourself to the dominant power structure, right? That said, when I connected with you and when I connected with some of the dope people across the country, specifically within the labor movement, specifically organizing within the community spaces, it's very clear that's a stereotype that's imposed on us. And part of our conversation today and for the continental shifts is to challenge that narrative and lean into the ways utilizing our educator voice, utilizing our organizing experience, talking about black liberation struggle and how it intellectually and spiritually infused in us our own awareness around our own liberation as API people and how do we carry that forward? How do we pay that forward in the work that we do?   I think that takes us to another part of our conversation, which is where we are right now. And in our professional space right now, in this moment. And in this moment, we have to name that we are in an environment where it's just unprecedented due to the global pandemic, white nationalism has taken over the federal government for the past, well, I mean, the history teacher in me is, kind of framing this a little differently for the people. One could argue that white nationalism has actually been the norm throughout, the very beginnings of colonization on through the present moment. So, maybe there's a continuity of white nationalism. But, for folks, there's a heightened awareness of how openly racist, that the narratives and rhetoric has been, how violent it has been. But, I digress. My point is we are in a moment, right? We're in a moment. So, I have to ask Estella, why this show and why right now? And the show is named again for the people, Continental Shifts Podcast.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:19:12] Absolutely. I think everyone has a heightened sense of awareness at this particular moment and as educators and organizers that we are, it is crucial that in our service to our loved ones, to our people, to our comrades, that we use this time, this space, this passion project to elevate all of that and to move forward conversations that we've had in API spaces, for example, our caucuses within our unions, and really move forward as opposed to continuing to have conversations around things like, what do we call ourselves? Without framing that differently, right? I feel like we get stuck in this loop. API, AAPI, Asian American, split up the p—and this is just one example of why now, why this show. But did we pause and recognize or acknowledge that all of those names, none of those names we gave ourselves. Right. So as we do this work to uplift young people, to educate, to uplift ourselves and each other, we really have to figure out how we move away from language and tools and names that our oppressors gave us to begin with. Right. And really, really, really, really make massive continental shifts. And that's what our show is about. So digging into, as you guys continue to rock with us, follow us, we'll have special guests on each episode to dig into really heavy topics. Really moving forward our work, this work, in a space that is accessible to folks, a space that is laid back, free flowing, and a space that is all ours, that we get to name and it is nothing but love and respect between and with all of the folks who will grace us with their time and their presence on every episode here on out.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:21:31] The people that we have in our networks, in our relationships, in our community, some of the dopest educators, some of the dopest activists, some of the dopest organizers out there. And if the podcast, the Continental Shifts Podcast in particular, is a way for us to lift up voices of other APIs, as you said. Lift up our own voices, start to critically analyze the society that's around us so that we can become more sophisticated in our approach to organizing to shift not just the state, not just in the community, the entire world. We're talking about continents. We're talking about changing the world here, thinking about the ancestors that survived and were resilient and went through all of the journey to get us to the places that we are. Like our existence, our lives are due to the ancestors' survival and the gifts that they passed down to us, the wealth, the knowledge, the wisdom, the tradition, the culture, the language, as Estella mentioned earlier. And that's something that I struggle with now is that I'm stuck in the box of English only in my own language development. So the fact that you are looking into developing an awareness and a consciousness and a skill set to be able to get in touch with your indigenous language roots is just beautiful. And, I'm just saying, continental shifts happens on so many levels. And one of the unique things, if this is a seed that we pass down, the ways that our ancestors passed down to us, the seeds of wisdom, we're hoping that this passes on some seeds of wisdom to the generations that are currently organizing right now and for generations to come, because this is a turning point. It has to be. It has to be. We can't continue the world as we are seeing it today. So, just hope y'all are ready for that.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:23:22] So, and I'll say this too, there's a saying in Samoan, and I don't have it in Samoan right now, but it translates to: even every good fisherman sometimes makes a mistake. As you were talking, one thing came to mind and it's a quote from Audre Lorde she says, “There is no such thing as a single-issue [struggle] because we do not live single-issue lives,” and so I thought about wayfinding. And I think one of our conversations we had when we first met was about this generational divide that adds a different layer of complication and issues around positionality, oppression, anti-blackness, when we start to think about API folk in our communities, and there really is a generational like layer to it all, right? You and I being from the same generation growing up very similar, you know, I'm going to be a business major because I'm a child of immigrants and the American way and I need to do better and make sure everything my parents sacrificed was not for nothing. That's definitely a first gen thing, like that's a thing, and so you and I have a space to work our way backwards forwards and live in the present, right? So we have an opportunity to continue our identity journeys together, keep reaching as far back as we can and dig. We also get to do that while living in the moment and dealing with these challenges with what education looks like in a global pandemic. But we also get to dismantle as much of it as possible so that there is a new future, right? There's a new, we're going to do this differently. There is no back to normal because don't nobody want to go back to normal, right? Like the shit wasn't working then [laughs], it's not going to work after a global pandemic. So you got in front of you guys today, two dope bi-coastal educators, wayfinding their way from the past to the present and to the future.   So we got a whole lot to talk about and unpack just in season one. Today was really about Gabriel and I introducing ourselves, introducing the show and what Continental Shifts and what it's about. As we move forward, we're going to continue to dig into wayfinding, we'll be digging into anti-blackness within API spaces and really dialoguing on how we work to uproot that within our community so that we can really move our work forward. Then we're going to dig into an API educator pipeline. We are educators and everything we do, education is always a part of what we do. Well teaching is always a part of what we do. So we want to figure out in what ways can we ensure that API students all across the country have educators who look like them in their classrooms? We're going to dig into organizing and figure out what are the best practices, best ways to really organize API spaces. Maybe that means looking at Asian communities, differently than we organize in PI spaces. I don't know, but join us for that conversation. And then we'll wrap up the season with really talking about giving space to preserving our language and our culture. And in Samoa, they say that the way you carry yourself is a part of your identity. And without our language and culture, we lose a part of who we are. So join this dialogue, be a part of this dialogue with us.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:26:58] Let's do it. Let's do it.   Swati Rayasam: [00:26:59] You're tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3. KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. We just heard the first episode of the ConShifts podcast and now let's get into the second episode on wayfinding.   Kai Burley & intro music: [00:27:18] And he's asking a lot of those questions like, “Mom, I'm white.” And I said, you know what? You have a responsibility. You have a kuleana. Mana'o of Hawaiian, mana'o, you have a kuleana. Oh, my ancestors did that, it's not my responsibility. Uh no, you're Hawaiian therefore, you are connected. Like in the, like the ocean, like we're talking about wayfinding and navigating. Wayfinding is exactly the concepts that you use in wayfinding you use in everyday life.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:27:45] What does it mean to be a wayfinder? In this episode, Gabriel and I chat with Sam and Kai to navigate how we might apply our ancestral knowledge to our daily practices. What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo'u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, and uso.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:28:12] What's good family? This is Gabriel Anthony Tanglao. Kumusta, pronouns, he/him. Welcome to the Continental Shifts Podcast. Today we have two incredible guests joining us from the beautiful Hawaiian Islands, Mr. Sam Kapoi, a Hōkūle'a sailor and world traveler, serial entrepreneur, and community organizer. And also, my teaching sister, Ms. Kai Burley, a fearless educator, brilliant facilitator, and a new mother recently bringing a beautiful baby girl into this world. Kai, please introduce yourself to our listeners.   Kai Burley: [00:28:49] Aloha, how's it? My name is Kai. It's short for Ka'ehukai which means mist of the ocean. My name was given to me by my grandparents. And it's to offset my twin sister, who is Kaiaulu. She's the wind of Wai'anae, the area from which I'm from. And so then I'm with the ocean, so wind and ocean, that balance. Yeah, I want to mahalo you guys for inviting me onto your guys podcast. A little bit of background about myself and how I got invited. So, right, like Gabe said, we're definitely Ohana. I met Gabe what, three, four, three years ago at a decolonizing, not decolonizing, it was a NEA, leadership summit and I kind of went, put myself at him and my other good friends table and I really wanna to say I wasn't invited, but [laughs] I saw that they were doing a decolonizing issue and I was like, hey, this topic is way better for me so I'm going to sit down at this table. And hopefully I proved myself to be a part of their group or hui, but from then Gabe and those other people that I met at the table have been my rock through my education career. And yeah, so I'm an educator, native Hawaiian, Chinese, Portuguese, teacher, and I started my teaching path in my hometown, Wai'anae. And Wai'anae [phone ding] has the most native Hawaiians in the universe and I'm very proud of that fact. I'm an alumni of that area and of that high school. And it was just a great joy to be able to start my teaching there. Currently I moved, I just became a brand new mom to a first beautiful Hawaiian Filipino-Portuguese girl, to my third child and my first baby. And I have two older boys. Estella too I met her wonderful Samoan, beautiful self again at the NEA conference. And she really helped me to push forward some API things, especially when it, what was it? It was like a new business item. Her and another good brother from Hawaii, Kaleo, got to talking with her and just so like minded and again, very much ohana. Yeah, my background, I'm a Hawaiian Studies major for my undergrad and then a US military is my graduate degree. Yeah, and I just fell into teaching from my other teachers.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:31:00] Kai, I love that background. You refreshed my memory on how we connected a few years ago. It was the NEA Equity Leaders Summit. And at that summit, we were all coming together, able to choose and create some of our own topics. I think we decided to create our own table around decolonizing curriculum and you jumped right into that conversation and from there we went on to hosting some decolonizing curriculum retreats with our crew. We also are joined here by Sam, who you connected me with Kai when my friend Ike and I were starting to host some Freestyle Friday podcasts in the midst of the pandemic and I remember Sam came through and shared some of his wisdom and kicked some of his knowledge with us. So Sam, if you would like to please introduce yourself to our guests and our listeners.   Sam Kapoi: [00:31:53] Aloha mai kakou. O ba'o Samuel Kili'inui Kapoi. Kupa'aina o Wai'anae. My name is Sam Kapoi. My name was given to me by my two great grandfathers on my mother's side. Samuel being on her mother's father's side. And Kili'inui was my mother's dad. And Kili'inui referencing to the great chief. That name stems deep in our family genealogy. And so it feels like I had to live up to the name growing up. But yeah, I grew up same area as Kai, in Wai'anae on the Island of O'ahu in Hawaii, on the West side, born and raised. I'm a father to three children. I have three sons and a couple of step kids. And so, a daughter and a son. I'm a serial entrepreneur, out here in Hawaii. Run multiple businesses, and I was invited by Kai to jump on that Freestyle Fridays speaking about wayfinding and navigation, and talking about my life's journey with sailing Hōkūle'a. It was our canoe, traditional navigation canoe that was born in the 70s during the time of the renaissance and so that canoe literally changed my life in many ways. So yeah, just honored to be here on this podcast. Mahalo.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:33:36] Thank you, Sam. And one of the things you said around living up to our names is something that I definitely resonate with. Thinking about my name is Gabriel Anthony Tanglao. It's actually a tradition in my family where the eldest son is named after his father. But my name is not a junior. I'm Gabriel Anthony so I have my own identity, my own destiny, and that's something that I do honor. So you naming that definitely refreshed my memory on how important that is for us. And that's really connected to the theme around wayfinding that we're exploring. So you did mention the Hōkūle'a sailing. I just wanted to ask a follow up question around that for folks who may be hearing that for the first time. I know that this is tied to an ancient tradition of sailing and I was wondering how you first got into that tradition and also what you're doing with that knowledge now. If you could speak to that, we would love to hear more about it.   Sam Kapoi: [00:34:37] My introduction to the life of voyaging was back in high school. 2000, 2001 is when I was introduced to a canoe called Eala. That's the canoe, our traditional canoe in Wai'anae that was built by our people out here for navigation. And so, naturally, I would flow to the mother of all canoes, which is Hōkūle'a. And so being introduced to Eala, and actually, Eala means the awakening, right? It was a canoe built by our people to really wake our people up out on this side because Hawai'i struggled like any other indigenous culture out there, Westerners coming over destroying everything, cutting out culture, language, art, and in the 70s, our kupuna or our elders were kind of fed up and wanted to start this renaissance and so Hōkūle'a was a huge part in revitalizing our traditional arts and culture and everything that fell in between those lines. It's all volunteer based, you know. Most recently, our big voyage called the Mālama Honua Worldwide Voyage. You can check it out on hokulea.com H O K U L E A dot com and see the voyage. My role on that voyage was like the younger generation leadership. It's going around the planet, spreading the good works of Mālama Honua, which means to take care of the earth. It's not like we was going around to tell people how to take care of the earth. We were going around to see how people are dealing with caring for the earth. Because we're only an island out here and with the obvious changes of climate change and sea level rising, a lot of our shorelines for all little islands is diminishing rapidly. And so, some islands is literally gone because of this climate change. By going around the world, Hōkūle'a was that beacon to bring hope that you know, people is trying to do the right thing to make change in this world. And so that was a three year long voyage, actually four years. Right now we're planning to go around the entire Pacific Rim starting from Alaska and ending up in Russia and so that's a kind of crazy one right now.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:36:56] Fam, what I love about the way that you broke that down is we're talking about wayfinding as a concept culturally and exploring our own identities and you're literally talking about wayfinding across the globe on the sailing you know, voyages. So really love that connection. Kai, in your experience as an educator, given your background, your life experience, your cultural roots, in what ways would you say the traditions, your ancestry, your familial background have influenced your thinking as an educator?   Kai Burley: [00:37:33] I'm very fortunate to be one of those Hawaiians that was raised Hawaiian. I didn't, even though I have a degree in Hawaiian studies, a lot of people, and that's why I hate to lead with my degree. I hate, not, I shouldn't say hate, I don't really enjoy, not enjoy, I don't really like to lead with, oh, I'm a native Hawaiian, and then my degree is in Hawaiian studies, because then a lot of people will assume, and not just the foreigners, my own people as well, will assume that, oh, this girl, she just learned how to be Hawaiian by going to school. Because unfortunately for Native Hawaiians, that's how a lot of us have to learn. A lot of Hawaiians have to learn how to be Hawaiian. But for me, I was very fortunate to grow up in a Hawaiian home. I was raised by my mom's parents. My grandfather is Native Hawaiian Chinese, and then my grandmother, who is Native Hawaiian Portuguese. I was very fortunate to, from day one, I don't remember what it is to not be Hawaiian. I've been a hula dancer since, I can't even remember my first hula lesson I want to say from the age of two, my grandparents tell me I started dancing at two. Reading books, we never sat down to read like Mother Goose stories. I remember sitting down and I don't know, Sam, if you remember that book that Herb Kāne was the illustrator about Pele, Pele is our goddess of the volcano, like that was my first childhood book I can remember. I remember listening and reading about Hawaiian mythology and Hawaiian legends, my grandparents put Hawaiian food on the table. It wasn't something like I hear from other friends and other Ohana members and things that like eating poi, which is our main staple. I was taught to be grateful for those things and I was taught that it was important to know who I am and where I come from and that I'm Hawaiian.   It's funny, a funny story. When I was fourth grade I was picked up early from school because I got into a little bit of a fight. Somebody called me a haole, which is a white person or a foreigner. And my grandfather picked me up and I remember this conversation so vividly and he was like, “What happened?” And I was like, this guy called me freaking haole, I'm Hawaiian, I'm pure Hawaiian. And it was at like age ten that my grandfather had to tell me. “You know, babe, you're not pure Hawaiian.” And I was devastated. I was so devastated. I mean, it was my world, you know what I mean? It was like, I never met my white dad. But yeah, all of those things, language, hula, kupuna, aina[?], kalo. Those things were always with me. They weren't taught to me in elementary school, they weren't taught to me in high school, in college. And as an educator I think it became a real obstacle for me because of the advantages that I had being raised in my Hawaiian culture, it made me look at my students at first—and I always get down on myself about this—one of the teachers that I student taught behind, Keala Watson, a great brother from Nanakuli, had to tell me like, “Aye Kai, you cannot expect these students to know what you know, and you don't get disappointed when they don't know what a'ole means, which means no. Don't get upset that they don't know what the word kuleana means, which means responsibility, because Native Hawaiians in today's world are worried about surviving. They don't have the same advantages that some of us had to live within our culture.” And I'm getting goosebumps because it was a real big awakening for me. So I think as an educator, for me, I try to, I bring my whole culture to my classroom. I don't dumb it down. I don't dilute it. Even if somebody tells me that I need to dilute it, if somebody tells me that there's other students that aren't Native Hawaiian in my classroom, I don't care. This is Hawaii. I'm a Hawaiian. The majority of the students and the people in the public school education are Hawaiian. I'm going to bring it so that it becomes normal. The same way that I was very fortunate to have had that normal Hawaiian setting.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:41:28] Thank you. Thank you, sis. Something that you said that really resonated with me or stood out was the story that you shared and being told, hey, guess what, you're not. And having to, like, deal with that, I can definitely relate to that being multi-ethnic, multiracial. Always feeling like there's no space for you to, I don't know, maybe fully belong or feeling like you at some points have to fight to belong or prove that no, no, no, this is, this is me this is my lineage, I have a right to this, and that definitely resonates and I can relate so much to that. I had been called growing up a few times, palagi, which in Samoan that's, yeah, you're white and I'm like, no, but wait, I'm actually not. And then finding out years later no, actually there's some German in our family line and I go, oh, okay. So that I felt that and then again, you said, I'm going to bring my whole self, my whole culture to the classroom and I'm with it. And I, it is something that I'm striving to do every single day that I teach. My question to you right now, Kai, is first of all, you recently had a baby, so congratulations. As we look backward and forward to future generations, where do you feel or might you feel that our roles as mothers, and I have a little one now and I'm working really hard to make sure that she is fully aware of who she is as a Samoan, a Nigerian, and Black American, but where do our roles as mothers intersect with our roles as wayfinders?   Kai Burley: [00:43:04] That's so cool that you asked that question because I think when I was writing my notes on what to bring to the table, I think that's the role that I was writing from. And I wrote notes, a lot of notes on, not just my kids in the classroom, but like my kids. For my kids as Native Hawaiians, and their dad is white from Florida, I explained to them about being Hawaiian after realizing the privilege that I've had. And I will recognize that a lot of the privilege I have with learning my culture, having it in my household, has a lot to do with the other ethnic, backgrounds that I come from. Definitely my Portuguese or white background has definitely set me up for some type of success or privilege if you want to say. We'll say privilege. But as far as wayfinding for indigenous people, and definitely for Native Hawaiians, I think wayfinding has a lot to do with that, with knowing where you come from. We say mo'okū'auhau, that's one piece of it. And I try to teach my kids, where you come from, where your dad come from, where do I come from? Where is grandma from? Where is tutu kane from? And then the other side of it, so you have mo'okū'auhau, and then the other side of it is kuleana or responsibility or duty. I rarely say privilege. I only say privilege when I talk about my haole side. When we think in terms of Native Hawaiian mana'o or thought or indigenous thought, there is no sense of privilege; it's all kuleana. It's duty. So knowing where you come from and having that cultural understanding of kuleana, not a foreign understanding, right? It's a cultural understanding. And for Hawaiians, the basis of your kuleana is your kupuna, where you come from. Right. And who you are now and what you're leaving to your mamo or your descendants in the future. And you, in that thought process, you don't just, it's not compartmentalized. I don't tell my kids, oh, you only think in this way as you're Hawaiian. No, because you're taught to be this way, because you're taught to be Hawaiian, this mana'o goes for every single inlet that you have in your body.   So, this mana'o of kuleana and mo'okū'auhau goes to your haole genealogy. It goes towards your Chinese ancestry. It goes towards your Portuguese ancestry. And just around the same age, my son is 10 and he's going through that same kind of identity, I want to say forthcoming, and he's asking a lot of those questions like, “Mom, I'm white.” And I said, you know what? You have a responsibility. You have a kuleana. Mana'o of Hawaiian, mana'o, you have a kuleana. Because you're white, we're going to use that and to fulfill everything else that you need to fulfill to help your people, to help your ohana, to help your kaiaulu, to help your community. Because he's getting this other side from his dad who is white, like, they have that, they have, we're having that conversation that, “Oh, my ancestors did that it's not my responsibility.” Uh no, you're Hawaiian therefore, you are connected. Like in the, like the ocean, like we're talking about wayfinding and navigating, right? It's so cool how, like the mana'o, the kind of lessons that Sam and people like Sam, they bring into this conversation of culture. Like wayfinding is exactly the concepts that you use in wayfinding you use in everyday life. Right. You use in the classroom and you have this mana'o that we are all connected. There's no stop from past, present, and future. There's no stop from ancestor, self, and descendants, right? We're all connected. You're connected to your past, present, future, to your ancestors, and your descendants, and to every area around this place. For my kids, it's easier for them to understand when you put it in a Hawaiian mana'o. It's just when you try to bring in all these different other kind of thoughts, like these foreign thoughts of, no, you're only responsible for yourself or, you know, like the nuclear family, you know, but definitely as a mom, I want my sons and now my daughter to be Hawaiian, like I said, bring their full self and their full self is Hawaiian, no matter if they are part Haole or Chinese, their Hawaiian is what overflows into all of those different compartments.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:47:02] Thank you, Kai. That was, that was beautiful. I was like taking notes, like with not calling it privilege and even being mindful about that because I feel like I do refer to it as privilege anytime I get a piece of information and then listening to you share, I feel like I'm, I don't want to say owed, but my ancestral knowledge, like that's mine to own, right? That's mine to fully to make a part of all of me and my daughters as well. You said that wayfinding has a lot to do with knowing where you come from. There's a responsibility and a duty. We're all connected, right? There's no stop between the past, present, and future, which takes me straight to this question that I have for you, Sam. Why is the concept of wayfinding so relevant for this moment, for today, for our students who are probably in our classrooms right now?   Sam Kapoi: [00:47:51] That's a great question. I grew up in a home that my grandmother, she was literally born in that generation or raised in the generation that it wasn't right to be Hawaiian. She was literally told by her mother, my great grandmother, that children is to be heard and not seen, which is like mind blowing nowadays, right? Because we couldn't speak the language, couldn't dance. There were rebels obviously that did it. because they didn't care. But because of this whole western world thing at that time, the new coming, they were trying to adapt to that culture, you know, instead of their own. And so, for me growing up, I wasn't raised by my mother or my father. I was raised by my grandparents. And, I was raised, in a hard working sense as a Hawaiian, as a kanaka here but on the culture and language side, totally wasn't. The only thing that was real relevant in culture was providing, like my grandpa he would teach me a lot about the ocean and fishing and all types of different fishing, throwing net, offshore fishing, and diving, and I guess that was my kind of link to the ocean in the beginning with that kind of wayfinding, right? You know, if you're not going to go to the ocean to provide, then what's the sense of going, and so, for him, you know, instilling those kind of values and ike, right? The knowledge in me at such a young age. I think about it all the time, you know nowadays, the challenge is real.   Like Kai was mentioning earlier about just trying to survive out here, especially in Hawai'i. Statistically, it's like the most expensive place to live on this planet, especially in the US. And so, a lot of our people stray away from that cultural connection. Because, for me, I chose to learn. It actually started around ten or nine that I realized that one of my cousins was going to a Hawaiian immersion school, right, fully immersed school for our language and culture. When I asked my grandma and my mom, like, how come I'm not going to that school? You know, like, why do I have to go to our elementary school that's local here and why not go to the other one? And they were so like, just negative about it. I think that is what kind of elevated or pushed me to learn more and become that again because spiritually that was just pulling me in that path to learn, because if I don't, then who will? Like one of my kupuna told me before, she told me, ‘o wai ‘oe, right? And basically that means, who are you? And that's a pretty heavy question. And I ask myself all the time, who am I? Cause it's just like Kai said, I thought I was just a Hawaiian, you know? 100%. And then, because I never knew my dad until later years, probably around 10 or 11 years old, and found out he was Samoan, German, at first I thought it was just pure Hawaiian Samoan. Then you start digging into the layers of genealogy, mo'okū'auhau, knowing who you are. And finding out you're German, part Korean, and all this other stuff. And kuleana, the responsibility of those lineages, like what is that to you, and so for me by returning to the core, because I'm here in Hawaii, we call it ho'i i ka piko, right? Return to the center. Immersing myself just finding out who I am as a Hawaiian and how I can make other people realize how, I don't want to use the word, but privileged we are, you know what I mean? It's just like, cause that's true, you know, we, that's a privilege to be us, our people, that's what I believe. And, at the same time, like Kai said, it is kuleana, our duty, our responsibility to uphold the highest. Because our kupuna wasn't idiots they're, to me, pretty badass, like they survived all this time to become one of the most self-sufficient peoples on this planet, in the middle of the Pacific. And so nowadays with all this distractions, we do veer off the ala, we call it, right? Off our course and trying to find that goal, like that want, that need, that whatever it is that we're gunning for and just in this course of this year, last year and this year, and so with, with that, I had to ho'i i ka piko again, realize who I am and where I come from. And so, getting back on course to hold the line, to hold that course so that I can be that example, I guess that role model, right, for the next generation to look up to.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:52:17] Sam, I feel like I related to much of what you were sharing in terms of my own upbringing regarding assimilating to dominant culture as a first generation Filipino American and in my adult life, I've now started that journey to return back to that self discovery of my cultural roots. And I feel like what you share just definitely resonated with me and is inspiring me to think even more deeply about who I am. That's something that's going to stick with me.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:52:49] So before we wrap or as we wrap, to wrap, are there any other thoughts, feelings, notes that maybe you wanted to make sure that you shared on this episode with us today?   Kai Burley: [00:52:59] Well I just want to mahalo you guys for having me on there. And I want to mahalo my brother, Sam, a true wayfinder in all sense of the word, like literal wayfinding, mana'o wayfinding and just, he brings so much to our culture and to our keiki. He didn't really mention this because, you know, he's all ha'aha'a and humble, but what him and his people do it gives an alternate way of learning. It really brings them back to their culture and it should really be the true way of learning. Like Sam mentioned the Eala and all of these people like Sam that are not in the classroom, but it's a very indigenous mana'o that the profession of educator doesn't mean that you're the only educators in this world, right? We learn from our ohana, right? And our ohana is extended to outside of the classroom, to into the community, to outside of our community, to across continents, and on the US our ohana extends to all of these points, right? There's no disconnect. Right? In wayfinding and navigation and traversing is fluid once you know who you are and where you come from. Right? but yeah, just mahalo to you guys and mahalo to Brother Sam, Sam Kapoi.   Sam Kapoi: [00:54:11] Mahalo Kai. In my genealogy, my eighth generation grandfather, his name was Poi Nui, Harry George Poi was his name. And so he was known for his kalo, which is basically our older brother, right? And in our genealogy, mythology, in Hawai'i his name was Haloa. And so kalo is the taro root, right? And he was known for his Wai'anae lehua kalo. He was the, one of the first, I think, or the first Hawaiian owned business man out here. People from all over Hawai'i would come down here to get his kalo and his poi. Poi is cooked mashed up kalo. That is pounded and mixed with water to make poi, which is our staple, of life. As disconnected as I was, language and art and all that stuff, I was more connected with food. All my life was food. And more recently, earlier this year, I started a business called Kalo Bombs. We make fresh pa'i'ai every single day to serve it to our people.   Kai Burley: [00:55:08] And it's the bomb. It's the bomb.   Sam Kapoi: [00:55:11] One of the first things that you learn in navigation is always to know where you come from. Literally, when you take off from that point from your home to remember where you come from, because just in case anything happens on that voyage, you know exactly where to go. However you want to take that metaphor and apply it to your life, like super critical, helped me a lot through my life with just knowing where home is, physical, spiritual, mental, all that stuff. And so there's a ōlelo no'eau or a Hawaiian proverb that our kupuna use was that, not all knowledge is learned in one school. That proverb alone is basically to be open, be open and go out there and learn as much as you can, because the mind is the most powerful weapon and by seeking other mentors, throughout the world.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:56:00] Yeah, just thank y'all both so much. This has been incredible. I can't wait to even run it back and re-listen and tune into some of the wisdom y'all dropped.   Estella Owoimaha-Church & outro music: [00:56:10] We want to thank our special guests Sam and Kai one more time for rapping with us tonight. We appreciate you both for being here and really helping us continue to build the groundwork for the Continental Shifts podcast and setting a really strong foundation with contextualizing this concept of wayfinding for us and for our listeners.   Sam Kapoi: [00:56:26] Oh yeah, mahalo nui, you guys.   Kai Burley: [00:56:28] Mahalo nui.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:29] Faafetai tele lava. Thank you for listening.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:56:32] Salamat. Thank you for listening. Continental Shifts Podcast can be found on Podbean, Apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:41] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archived footage and grab some merch on our site.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:56:45] Join our mailing list updates at conshiftspodcast.com. That's C-O-N-S-H-I-F-T-S podcast dot com and follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:02] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:57:06] Keep rocking with us fam. We're going to make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, and all together.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:12] Fa'afeti, thanks again. Tōfā, deuces.   Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:57:06] Peace. One love.   Miko Lee: [00:57:19] Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex express is produced by me Miko Lee along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen and Cheryl Truong. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 4.4.24 Intro Continental Shifts appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee speaks with Asian American creatives and Pulitzer prize finalists performance artist Kristina Wong and playwright Lloyd Suh. They reflect on how the covid lock down impacted their work and ruminated on how built communities can arise in times of hardship. One is creating work that explores the times we live in and the other is delving into the past. Each share their creative process and why art matters to them.   Show Note Links Kristina Wong's Website Kristina Wong, Sweatshop Overlord, at A.C.T.'s Strand Theater (1127 Market St., San Francisco) March 30 – May 5, 2024. Kristina's Radical Cram School  Lloyd Suh's bio The Far Country BY LLOYD SUH at Berkeley Rep. March 8 – April 14, 2024   Show Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:28] Good evening and welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee and tonight we get to hear from two Asian American creatives. Both are Pulitzer prize finalists who have had their work presented around the country. They reflect on how the COVID lockdown impacted their work and they ruminate on how built communities can arise in times of hardship. One is creating work that explores the times we live in and the other is delving into the past to lift up stories that might be missing in history. Each share their creative process and why art matters to them. Tonight, join me as I talk story with performance artist Kristina Wong, whose show Sweatshop Overlord opens at ACT's Strand Theater on March 30th and with playwright Lloyd Suh whose show The Far Country runs at Berkeley Rep until April 14th. First up is my chat with Kristina Wong. Welcome Kristina Wong to Apex Express.   Kristina Wong: [00:01:24] I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.   Miko Lee: [00:01:27] We are so happy to have you as the performance artist, writer, creator of Kristina Wong's Sweatshop Overlord, which will run at ACT from March 30th through May 5th. Yay!   Kristina Wong: [00:01:36] Yes, that's eight shows a week, one body. Just me, everybody. Just me.   Miko Lee: [00:01:43] One woman show. Excellent.   Kristina Wong: [00:01:44] No understudy. I've been looking for an understudy. But apparently the theater doesn't think it works as well if someone else goes around saying they're Kristina Wong. So, I gotta stay healthy. For you!   Miko Lee: [00:01:54] That would be interesting, though. I would actually love to see a multi-people Kristina Wong version. That'd be really interesting.   Kristina Wong: [00:02:02] Yeah. There are enough Kristina Wongs on this planet to do that, but can they do what I do? I don't know.   Miko Lee: [00:02:07] I don't think many people can do what you do. [Kristina laughs] Okay, so I want to start with the question I ask many many people, and this is a big one: who are your people and where do you come from?   Kristina Wong: [00:02:21] My people, so many questions. Well, the people that I was born into, I'm third generation Chinese American, Toisan on my father's side and Cantonese on my mother's side. And we were a San Francisco family. Both my parents were born in San Francisco, went to San Francisco high schools. I went to San Francisco. Now I live in Koreatown, Los Angeles, my alternate Asian universe. I will say that those are the people I was born into. When I was growing up in middle school and high school I was somewhere between a theater kid who also liked making prank calls and was constantly trying to figure out who my people were and what my clique was cause I don't even know if I would totally fit in with the theater kids. And then when I got to college, I discovered radical solo performance work and activism and finally could put, like, words around things that I had been told, “We don't talk about it. You just get really good grades and then just become successful and that's how you deal with that,” you know? But was introduced to interdisciplinary art and naked performers and people putting all their trauma out there in beautiful theater ways. Now as an adult, as I tie it back into the show, Kristina Wong Sweatshop Overlord, my people are the aunties. This community of aunties that I found myself leading for 504 days during the pandemic. I somehow found myself, as many artists did, non essential and running a mask sewing group and needing people to help me sew masks. And a lot of those happened to be aunties, a lot of them were Asian women who had mothers and grandmothers who were garment workers. And we had learned how to sew as survival skills that were passed down to us. And those of late have become my people. And that's the story of the show.   Miko Lee: [00:04:16] Kristina, can you step back for a moment and just tell how that got started? How did Auntie Sewing Squad in the very, very beginning, how did it get started?   Kristina Wong: [00:04:24] March 12th, I was doing what I thought was my last show on earth. For some reason, there was a community college in Sacramento, American River Community College that had not canceled its classes, that had not taken its classes online and I had one last show on the books at 12 in the afternoon. I was doing a show called Kristina Wong for Public Office. I actually ran and served in local office in Koreatown, Los Angeles, where I live and was doing a big campaign rally show about what it meant to run for local office. And the idea was the show was going to tour all of 2020 as we led up to the November 2020 elections. And I sew my set pieces and my props. So you imagine all this American flag bunting made out of felt that I've sewn on a Hello Kitty sewing machine. And so this really ridiculous, like an American flag threw up on the set. Like that was my set. And the show is not going well, the students are very distracted. As it turns out, they are receiving a text in the middle of my show saying we're going online until further notice. So I suddenly have no income. No tour. I'm back in LA. I'm hiding inside my apartment as we all are. Going, “Why did I choose to do this with my life? Why was I so compelled to become an artist? What is my purpose in all this? Why, why did I choose this unessential work?” But then I couldn't feel sorry for myself because there were people who are risking their lives to deliver mail, to work at the grocery store, to go to work every single day at the hospital. And I see this article that I'm tagged in on Facebook saying that hospitals have no masks and are looking for home sewn masks. And the whole culture of mask wearing was so, you know, unheard of at this point and I looked at my Hello Kitty sewing machine and I was like, well I've never sewn medical equipment before. I've sewn my sets. I've sewn a giant vagina costume. I think I can make medical equipment. And I was just sort of called like Joan of Arc to sew. And I made this very naive offer to the internet where I said, if you're immunocompromised or don't have access to masks, I'll get you a mask. I didn't have the materials to do this, but I just offered this because it felt like that's what you were supposed to do in this moment. We were all connected and as strong as our weakest link.   March 20th is when I sewed my first mask. March 24th, I was like, okay, I need help because there's no way. One day when I was sewing nonstop all night, I made about 30 masks. That's not enough to fulfill the list that was exponentially building in my inbox. So I thought, okay, I'll make a Facebook group, and sort of offload some of this work to other people who might be sewing who could help me. And I make the group in a rush. I call it Auntie Sewing Squad. I don't realize our acronym is ASS. I start to add my mother into the group, her friends into the group, all sorts of folks are in the Facebook group. And as it turns out, you can't just start a Facebook group and expect people to just sew, so I, [laughs] so I find myself having to figure out how do we get the materials? How do we teach people how to sew these masks that none of us have sewn before? How do we teach people how their sewing machines work? Because some of them haven't touched their sewing machines in decades. And how do we vet these requests for masks, because a lot of people are panicking in our inbox, and we kind of have to create a system where just because someone's going, “Please send as many as you can,” as many as you can might mean 10 masks, it might mean 300. And are they just panicking right now and they think they need that many masks, or, you know, like, so we just had to make a lot of decisions and it felt like in those first days we were playing God, trying to figure out well, If we've only made a finite number of 15 masks today, who gets them, right? And obviously you're going to look at who's at most risk. So, so this was supposed to just be a two week thing, right? This was supposed to be a thing until the government got the masks off those cargo ships and got them to everybody. This was before masks became a bipartisan thing and a politically polarizing thing. And the group just kept going because we found beyond hospitals there were a lot of very vulnerable communities that could not even afford the cheap masks that were showing up on the market. And we're talking about farm workers, folks seeking asylum at the border, indigenous reservations. We sent a lot to the Navajo Nation and to the Lakota tribe in North and South Dakota. So this ended up going on for over 500 days. It became a community of over 800 volunteer aunties, all sewing remotely, all working remotely. We developed this whole system in which we could respond to the high COVID rates that we were witnessing and to communities that were being adversely impacted, either because they had no access to healthcare or no access to clean water.   Miko Lee: [00:09:03] That's an important one.   Kristina Wong: [00:09:05] Yeah.   Miko Lee: [00:09:06] How many masks did you end up creating?   Kristina Wong: [00:09:08] We ended up sewing in total, what we recorded was 350,000 masks were sewn and distributed. We also rerouted hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of medical equipment to a lot of those places. The thing is, like, in a crisis, and I have to remind us, even though it was four years ago, because we forget so many of the details, if you saw an article that farm workers were getting hit by COVID, you don't, you're not going to just send a bunch of masks to some address you find online, right? Because not everyone's checking their mail, not everyone might be at that office address, you're not clear who might distribute those masks once they arrive. So we had to do a lot of work in terms of calling and working with other mutual aid organizers and these communities and figuring out like, well, what is the actual impact? How are you getting these masks around and how many can we send you at least to hold you over for a week or two, right? Like, yes, there are you know, hundreds of thousands of farm workers, but we're not sitting on a ton of masks that we just, you know, that come out of our butt and that we just have like we actually like sit down at our sewing machines and cut and sew these things. So—   Miko Lee: [00:10:13] And you had to research and make the connections—   Kristina Wong: [00:10:16] Make the connections. Yeah. And some of those requests shifted into full on other kinds of aid. So the Navajo reservation had volunteer sewing groups, but they didn't have access to sewing supplies. I'm in Los Angeles where we have a garment district and we were looking at a map going, well, in theory, someone could drive round trip across a very long day, you know, to, to lessen the risk of exposure. And so our first truck over wasn't, you know, just a van filled with masks, but a van filled with the supplies that they could use to sew masks. And then we learned that only 30 percent of that reservation has running water. That when multigenerational families were getting COVID, there was nowhere to quarantine, so they requested things like tents to quarantine and buckets to make homemade hand washing stations. First it was sewing supplies, but we did about eight runs back and forth to the reservation during the pandemic to get supplies to those mutual aid organizers who could get it to people. I helped secure like a big soap donation from Dr. Bronner's. It was like, we just thought it was just the masks, but we basically stepped in all of structural racism and systemic you know poverty and all the ways the system was broken and it had already left behind a lot of indigenous communities and people of color who are getting hit like super hard by this pandemic. So ASS, our unintentional acronym, Anti Sewing Squad, that's sort of what we fell into was going from, okay, we're going to make a few masks to full on shadow FEMA.   Miko Lee: [00:11:51] Yeah, not even just sewing squad, but sort of a superhero squad. Let us come in where the government has failed and help where we can. It's incredibly powerful. Thank you for doing that.   Kristina Wong: [00:12:02] Yeah, I don't know if I would have done it again, honestly, even though out of it came this incredible show, but if you told me at the top of this, this is actually going to go on for 500 days, I don't know that I would have done it. Like, it was so exhausting, and that's also sort of a joke in the show, is people kept going, “Oh, you aunties, you're heroes, you're heroes!” and I'm like, oh my god, like, heroes are what you call the people who do the work no one wants to pay for apparently, because [laughs] this is, this is, this is, this sucks. This sucks. Like, we don't want to be heroes. We want our systems that, like, we, we just saw how everything failed us in this moment. Capitalism failed us. The medical system failed us. Just all these things that we're supposed to step in, in these moments of crisis didn't work. What I witnessed and why I made a show about this, is I've witnessed how community steps up and I witnessed how these aunties showed me this generosity I've never witnessed in my life. Like most of the friendships I have in Los Angeles are because someone does something for a living and that, serves me and my job in a certain way, right? They're very transactional relationships. And I witnessed people who I had no idea who they were before this moment, willing to come to my house, brave this very unknown pandemic, to pick up a roll of elastic, to sew for a total stranger, risk their life going to the post office to mail these things, right? And so to me, that's, what's worth celebrating is this opportunity that I think that we all had as humanity to witness that this was our moment to all come together, I would say we lost that opportunity and we've just become resentful and whatever, but I, I feel like Auntie Sewing Squad showed me a glimmer of the generosity that was possible. And for me, that's worth celebrating. And the only reason why I feel like it's worth reliving the pandemic. In a 90 minute show.   Miko Lee: [00:13:54] Every night for multiple nights.   Kristina Wong: [00:13:56] Yes, eight nights a week. What am I doing? The show is so, you know, people are like 90 minutes. So long. It's like, it's because the pandemic was so long. I would have loved to cap this at 45 minutes, but this kept going. It kept going.   Miko Lee: [00:14:09] How many members are there in the Auntie Sewing Squad?   Kristina Wong: [00:14:12] I would say. We had and they were all involved in different capacities. I mean, like some of them may have been involved for all of a week before, they got pulled away by their families or job obligations. But we had about 800 different aunties coming in and out of the group. Not all of them were sewing, some of them were organizing spreadsheets, making phone calls, some of them were driving aunties. We had a huge system of care aunties, led by our Auntie Gail and basically, people who couldn't sew who felt really guilty would [be] like, “Can I send you all a pizza?” Which was really necessary because a lot of these aunties were operating on survivor's guilt, right? Of feeling like, well I have this privilege of being able to stay at home while my mailman risks his life to get, you know, get me the mail. Because it's really hard to go to sleep when you know that you at your sewing machine an hour longer could possibly save someone's life. But we also needed to encourage these aunties to stop and rest. You can't just tell people, okay, sew a bunch of masks and expect them to stay motivated to do it. We had aunties who lost family members to COVID. We had aunties who are falling into their own depression and getting isolated. So much of this group wasn't just about like, while we joke it's a sweatshop, a lot of it was this entire community that supported each other, cared for each other. We'd have zoom stitch n bitches where we'd, you know, the aunties would, I was working out this show on Zoom, never thinking that it was going to premiere off Broadway, to basically just entertain the aunties while they were at their sewing machines. Like we were this whole system this became this weird ad hoc family that supported each other through this very strange time. And that was sort of the staying power of why people stayed involved is because they'd never experienced community like this either, which was just all pure generosity. I feel like I'm describing a cult, and I sort of am, but whatever. It's a cult called ASS, so it's fine.   Miko Lee: [00:15:59] Well, a unique community that came together to address the harm that was happening. It's beautiful. Can you go back in time, roll us back in time, to how you first got politicized? I heard you say that about college, but is there a moment that happened for you?   Kristina Wong: [00:16:16] I think I was always a little politicized. I just never really had the language and education around it. When I was 12 years old in our middle school, there was a science lesson plan contest and we basically prepared a science lesson plan and taught it to another class. And my partner and I, we did something about saving the planet and just doing a deep dive. This is the nineties, right? Like how much we were screwing with our planet. And I think I still don't know that we all know the lesson, but I was like a little Greta Thunberg, you know. I just didn't know how to be an activist. It was like, do I collect cans that are thrown on the street? Like, how do I, how do I do this? Like, how does this equate to actual change? And I think that's, I think we have some more of those tools and we're also cognizant about how frustrating those tools are to implement and see happen. But that's, I think the first time I realized I was an activist and it wasn't until I got to college and was introduced to, I didn't know what Asian American Studies was I was like, what? Why would you study that? Like, what is that? I had no idea that Asian Americans have had a whole political history that has worked alongside the civil rights movement and, I had no idea I could put words to the microaggressions I'd expressed my whole life and that I could actually challenge them as not being okay. I went to UCLA. I feel like that's where a lot of people figure out that they're Asian American. That's also where I began to understand the political power of art. What I had understood of activism before that point was marching in rallies, screaming at people, berating people to recycle. But, you know, it's not sustainable. It's exhausting. It makes people want to avoid you. And it's an emotionally depleting. And so being introduced to artists, just sort of sharing their lives and their lives as having political power to put forward and to put meaning to was really incredible to experience like performers. I think some of the first performers I saw just like put themselves forward and all their flawed ways was actually kind of profound and incredible. That's where I was drawn to making art as my sort of form of protest and activism.   Miko Lee: [00:18:26] Is this where the roots of the Radical Cram School came about?   Kristina Wong: [00:18:29] Oh, yeah. Yeah. So Radical Cram School is my web series for children. You can find it on YouTube. And where that started was one of our producers, Teddy Chow, his daughter Liberty had come home and they, at that point they were living in Ohio where they were one of the few Chinese families there. And the daughter said, “I wish I wasn't Chinese.” And Teddy was like, “Can you go talk to her and her friends and make her proud?” And I was like, “You know what? I said that too when I was a kid.” And so somehow this blew up into us like, well, let's create a web series for kids, specifically for Asian kids, because I feel like Asian Americans and kids don't really. We just sort of, the tools we are offered politically don't really have our face in them. Like, we don't really understand where we fit in a political movement, and how to be an ally to black and brown movements. And I was like, let's do a web series where we gather Asian American kids and it to me was a little tongue in cheek. And I feel like a lot of me being in a bubble of other progressives in Los Angeles feels like I can lovingly poke at this idea of a cram school where we're trying to quickly teach Asian kids about the entire world of what's overwhelming and oppression in the setting. And so that became Radical Cram School which went on for two seasons and was completely decried by right wingers like Alex Jones. So I would say that's a success.   Miko Lee: [00:19:53] I think it is so delightful and funny. It's a little mix of like drunk history with Sesame Street.   Kristina Wong: [00:20:00] Yes. Yes. That's exactly what we were going for and I feel like I'm very lucky at some point in my lifetime. Yes, it didn't happen until college and like post college was introduced to all these incredible Asian American activists, many of us who are still with us right now. And this history and I feel like it's worth sharing.   Miko Lee: [00:20:21] The child that inspired the whole series. Was she actually in it?   Kristina Wong: [00:20:26] Liberty. Yes, she was in it. She's in it. She's both in the first and second season.   Miko Lee: [00:20:29] Was it mission accomplished in terms of having a sense of pride of being Asian American?   Kristina Wong: [00:20:35] I think so. It's always ongoing, right? Like I think pride, you don't, you don't get it once and it stays forever. It's something that we like, as we constantly learn to like love ourselves and appreciate what we have. And we're also part of growing a community too, right? Like, it's not just like, Oh, I'm proud. I found my pride at 13 and it stayed. Like, we always feel like kicked to the curb constantly and challenged. And I think, like for me, this pandemic was a really challenging time for Asian Americans. As we witnessed like the backlash, the hate, like how backwards it was that people would equate. Do you remember early on when people were like, can you get COVID from Chinese food? Like, it was just so like, what happened?   Miko Lee: [00:21:13] I mean, the whole Kung flu virus.   Kristina Wong: [00:21:15] The Kung flu, China virus, like all these these just sort of racist associations with it are like, are constantly challenging to our sense of pride. So hopefully having that web series out there will be these touchstones to remind Asian American kids that we exist. We're here. There's a basis. We're not building this from scratch and we may be recording it from scratch or constantly trying to remember this history into existence. But, to me it's a verb, right? The verb of finding pride is always active.   Miko Lee: [00:21:44] I wanted to switch gears a little bit and talk about how you, you often in your work play with gender expectations around Asian women from, you know, like you mentioned before sewing on your Hello Kitty sewing machine, which I have a Hello Kitty sewing machine too.   Kristina Wong: [00:21:59] Yes. It's a good machine. I don't know if it's a Janome.   Miko Lee: [00:22:02] It's actually incredibly practical. It doesn't have the bells and whistles, but it works. Yeah but I remember your big vagina MC for Mr. Hyphen America. I can't believe you sewed that on one of those tiny machines. And then, you have this web series about taking down how white men can date Asian women. And then the other thing is your fake porn site. Can you tell us about that?   Kristina Wong: [00:22:23] Oh, that's like That's 20 years of projects you've just named. Well, my very first project out of college, year 2000, still had dial up internet, my friends, was called BigBadChineseMama.com. You can still look it up. And this is before there were search engines, SEOs. And if you look for Mail Order Bride on Yahoo, because Yahoo was the search engine of choice at the time, it showed up in the top 10 search results for Mail Order Bride. Now, you know, if you look for porn, clearly outnumbered, yeah. So that was like my first project. And a lot of that came out of like me being kind of a depressed college kid and trying to use this thing called the internet to research stuff for my Asian American women class. And all I was finding was pornography and was like, Oh my God, [laughs] we have to like intercept this somehow. And like always feeling like I was not good at being a girl, right? Like the standards for being a good Asian girl, were the extremes. It was like Miss Chinatown, Connie Chung, and then these porn stars that would show up, you know, on these Google, on these searches and that was, that's it, right? So a lot of my projects have been about like being awkward out loud and being uncomfortable out loud and leaning into publicly embarrassing myself, but saying that it's my work.   Miko Lee: [00:23:45] And how has your family responded to your work? You grew up in San Francisco.   Kristina Wong: [00:23:49] Yeah. Oh, they didn't like it at first, but they love it now because I'm a Pulitzer Prize finalist, my friends.   Miko Lee: [00:23:54] Oh, how did that feel to get?   Kristina Wong: [00:23:56] So crazy! You know, I entered, anyone can become a Pulitzer Prize contender. Like you just need 75 dollars and then you mail your entry in and the committee reads it. And so six years before I was a Pulitzer finalist, my friend Brian Feldman and I, we entered our respective plays. Mine was The Wong Street Journal, his was a very experimental piece called Dishwasher. His entry was like two pages long and we were up against Hamilton, which ended up winning. And my mother was so excited because she'd only seen my play, you know, like that was the only play she'd ever seen that year. And she was like, “You're going to win. You're totally going to win.” Which was great that I had her confidence, but I was like, probably going to go to Hamilton. And I actually got a press pass, and I went to Columbia College, where they announced the winner just for press in person, and I happened to just be in New York at that time, and I had prepared three speeches. One, if I won, a speech if I was a finalist, and then the speech if I lost. And I read all three speeches outside after Hamilton was declared the winner of the Pulitzer. So that day when they were announcing it, my, that same friend Brian was like, “Good luck today.” And I was like, “What are you talking about?” And he's like, “They're announcing the Pulitzers.” And then they were announcing it online because you know, it's 2022. And I was like, they're not going to give it to me. I do solo work. I'm an Asian woman. They've never given an Asian woman anything in the drama category and my phone just started exploding at lunch when I was in Chinatown having lunch with some friends and I couldn't believe it. I was just like freaking out and it just feels so dignified, right? And I'm not exactly a dignified person. So I'm like, [laughs] you know, I was like, “Oh my God, this is going to look so good on Tinder. Holy crap, this is crazy.” So it's, I'm still shocked when I look at that by my name. I'm like, this is so weird. But it's just funny because yeah, I entered as a joke six years before, and then I was on the committee the following year reading the applicants. So crazy things happen, folks. Crazy things can happen.   Miko Lee: [00:26:06] I have one more question, which is, you started ASS, Auntie Sewing Squad, in the very beginning when you were making this piece about running for public office. Even though that was created in 2020, you know, we're basically having the same election again.   Kristina Wong: [00:26:19] Yeah, I know. It's a sequel. Why are we in the sequel? I hate sequels.   Miko Lee: [00:26:24] So are you reviving that piece as well?   Kristina Wong: [00:26:27] I did, I have done it a little earlier this year. There have been some requests to maybe do it before November. We will always have elections, so it's a little bit evergreen. I actually had a reality television pilot that didn't get picked up by Trutv. And it was a very self satirizing version of myself that I was going to be playing in this pilot, which was basically satirizing myself as an activist. And it did not make sense once Trump took office to satirize myself, because as it turns out, most of the world have very two dimensional visions of what an Asian American is like and would think that that's who I really was and not get that it was a loving poke at myself. And I think looking at Radical Cram School and how I play myself there can give you a sense of, this won't make sense to everybody. Right. And so I was an out of work reality TV star, and what do you do when you're an out of work reality TV star? You run for public office. So there's a lot of that humor around that era. Just, I think we've just gotten so exhausted with, right? [Laughs]. Like, why, why are these two people still here? Oh my god. This is the best we could do? But there's still a lot of public offices to run for. It doesn't start and end with the presidency or the Senate. The story of the show is like what can happen locally? There are so many local offices that would surprise you. You could literally just go to the meeting and go take the vacated seat and go around saying you're an elected official. For better or for worse, whatever that means. So, but yeah, it did get recorded for Center Theatre Group, but it's not available for streaming anymore. So they did stream it right before the election during the pandemic. And maybe it will have a few more runs right before the election this year, but I'm not sure.   Miko Lee: [00:28:07] Okay, well, keep us posted so that we know. Is there anything else you'd like our audience to know about your upcoming play at ACT, Kristina Wong's Sweatshop Overlord?   Kristina Wong: [00:28:19] I just want to say it's such a special show and I feel very lucky I feel like there's not a lot of this. There's literally pushback in the publishing world and the network TV world where they're like, we do not want you to pitch anything about the pandemic. We are sick of the pandemic. So I feel like this record of this time came under the wire. I'm told it is not annoying as many things about the pandemic are [laughs]. And to me, it's really I find a lot of humor, not at the expense of like how tragic that time was, but in that a group of aunties came together and formed this ad hoc sewing army to protect the country. And, and so this really plays out like a war movie on stage and I think really kind of gives us something to reflect on and appreciate of each other in that moment. And so that's really what I hope brings people out is this need to feel that there's something sort of comforting that we can take from this moment, because I don't know that we got that. I think we just sort of ran from that so fast that we never really reflected. I hope to see everybody at ACT, The Strand Theater on Market, March 30th to May 5th, I believe is when I close. I do shows eight days a week. I do them on weekdays. I do them on weekends. I am living in that theater, folks, and I am living there for you. So please come out. I'll see you. It's Kristina Wong, Sweatshop Overlord. Finalist for the 2022 Pulitzer Prize in Drama.   Miko Lee: [00:29:44] Kristina Wong, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. And we look forward to seeing the show and learning more about the Auntie Sewing Squad. Thank you so much.   Kristina Wong: [00:29:54] Thanks Miko.   Miko Lee: [00:29:54] This is Apex Express and you are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org. Next up, listen to the Radical Cram School where kids learn about the story of Detroit activist and American revolutionary Grace Lee Boggs. This is the project that Kristina Wong was talking about creating to help young Asian Americans have a sense of pride and an understanding of their history. Take a listen to the Radical Cram School.   Radical Cram School: [00:30:43]   Miko Lee: [00:35:24] That was Kristina Wong's Radical Cram School. You can check out more of that on YouTube, which is linked in our show notes. Next up, take a listen to my interview with playwright, Lloyd Suh. Welcome award winning playwright Lloyd Suh to Apex Express.   Lloyd Suh: [00:35:41] Hello.   Miko Lee: [00:35:43] Your new show, The Far Country, is premiering at Berkeley Rep through April 14th and we're so happy to have you here.   Lloyd Suh: [00:35:52] Thanks for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:35:53] Okay I'm going to start with a big question, which is who are your people and where do you come from?   Lloyd Suh: [00:35:58] My family immigrated to the United States, from South Korea in the early 1970s. I was born in Detroit, Michigan and grew up mostly in the South suburbs of Indianapolis, Indiana but I've lived in the New York City area for the past like 25 years.   Miko Lee: [00:36:17] Thank you so much for that. I noticed that many of your plays are based around the Chinese American experience and less on your Korean American background. Can you talk a little bit more about what has inspired your artistic play choices?   Lloyd Suh: [00:36:30] Yeah. In the past, like, almost decade, really, I've been writing about these kind of forgotten or underexplored moments in Asian American history. It's kind of very accidental and almost involuntary. I was doing research on one play and it would lead me down a rabbit hole into reading about a story that I just couldn't shake, that I needed to, you know, get in a room with peers and explore. And so one play would just kind of lead to the next, I was writing a play under commission for the National Asian American Theater Company in New York called Charles Francis Chan Jr. That play kind of accidentally became about the history of the stereotypes that kind of permeate around Asian America to this day, and where those stereotypes came from. And in researching that history, there's just so much more scholarship around now, around Asian American history than there was when I was in school. There was just so much to read, and so much that was new to me. And in the process of researching that play, I came across the story of Afong Moy, regarded as the first Chinese woman to set foot in the United States. And there was something about her story that just haunted me, that I just couldn't shake and I knew I needed to get in a room with peers and like really wrestle with it. So in the process of that play, I was researching the exclusion era and it's unavoidable, right? The way in which the Chinese Exclusion Act and the experience of people on Angel Island really serves as kind of a fulcrum for so much of what Asian America is now, right? It created geographical restrictions, legislative, economic, not to mention cultural and stereotypical. Like, it's just the foundation for so much of what we've had to navigate as this obviously, socially constructed, very important sort of attempt at solidarity that we call Asian America. What that led to was just feeling like I'm just following, you know, I'm just following this impulse. I was doing it kind of subconsciously at first, but once I became aware that I was writing this history, it became really clear that what I was looking for, in total was trying to place myself on this continuum, trying to understand, where have we come from and where are we going and where are we now. The Far Country and another one of my history plays, The Heart Sellers, which is kind of a bookend to The Far Country in a lot of ways. were written largely during the pandemic.   Miko Lee: [00:38:57] Oh, that's so interesting. And so you've sort of been on this pathway, a timeline through Asian American history.   Lloyd Suh: [00:39:05] Yeah. It felt different during the pandemic, like, right. Like, before it was kind of impulsive and it felt very organic and I wasn't always very self aware of that, about how one play connected to the other. But once you know, we were in this moment of deep self reflection just based on what was going on in the world at that time too—a pretty intense reckoning in this country over American history, over, you know, who we build monuments to, over our accounting of what it is to be an American and a contemplation about like who we've forgotten. And so it became just more purposeful in that way. It became just clearer, especially as I started to think about the ways in which, you know, I have aging parents and I have growing children and wanting to understand how do I talk about one to the other? How do I place myself and my parents and my children on this continuum of this long arc of history? That doesn't just go backwards, but, you know, it goes forward as well. That in each of these plays, there's a gesture towards the future, and then thinking about the future and when, you know, when characters talk about the future in these plays, I like to think that for actors who are, who are playing those roles, that they can feel really palpably and recognize that when these characters are talking about the future, they're talking about them. And then when audiences hear them talk about the future, they also could feel the ways in which they mean them.   Miko Lee: [00:40:24] So you're both, as Helen Zia says, lifting up these missing in history moments, trying to tell these stories that haven't been told. Also, I hear you're reflecting a lot during that time of COVID during the lockdown time on how do we rise up our stories? I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the pandemic time and the impact on you as an artist and if the rise in anti-asian hate that really started happening around that time impacted your storytelling.   Lloyd Suh: [00:40:53] Absolutely. Yeah, I mean that whole period was, it was such a bizarre time to be a playwright. I mean, it was a bizarre time to be anything, right? But the idea of writing a play was pretty absurd because there were no theaters, right? And it's like, there's no sense of, hey, when will there be theater again? Right? It just seemed—   Miko Lee: [00:41:15] An unknown, an unknown field, right?   Lloyd Suh: [00:41:17] Yeah, so it was a little silly, right? You're like, oh, your play is due. And you're like, no, it's not [laughs] nobody's going to do anything. Like, why am I writing plays, right? And I think everybody in that time was thinking about, like, why do I do the things that I do? Why do I spend the time on the things that I spend time on? And, you know, our relationship with time was just very different. So very early in the pandemic, I was like, yeah, why am I, why would I write a play? There's no, it just doesn't make any sense right now. But then as I sat with the things that I knew I needed to wrestle with, and just knowing the way I wrestle with things is to write about them, that it felt like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this anyway, even though there's no sense that theater will come back anytime soon. I'm going to do this anyway. And it became an aspirational thing. Like to write a play became aspirational in the sense that it's like, I believe that theater will come back, that we're not all gonna die, that civilization will continue, and that this will matter, right? That what I'm exploring right now, will be meaningful to myself, to my peers and to strangers, in whatever the world looks like then. And so to write aspirationally is pretty, pretty cool. It's different, you know. To be able to write with that aspiration was really valuable. And I think it's part of why and how these plays came to be the kind of plays they are.   Miko Lee: [00:42:40] I appreciate the hopeful side that you are infusing into your plays, given the time that we were in was when many people felt so hopeless. I'm wondering if because you're writing about the immigration station and Angel Island and also the Exclusion Act were, what was happening in the country around, you know, Trump saying Kung flu virus and all the stories about the elders that were getting beat up in Chinatown and, all over the country, the slurs that people were getting. Did that impact or help to inform how you're writing about the Exclusion Act?   Lloyd Suh: [00:43:14] Yeah. I think that reading the news during that time, it's very similar to reading the history, right? You can see where that comes from. I remember during that time, in a lot of news media, tended to make it seem or insinuate that this was new, that this was surprising somehow. Having been immersed in this history, it was frustrating to see the ways in which people, sometimes very smart people [laughs] not recognizing, hey, this is not new. This is ancient. This was there from the beginning. Yeah, of course, that absolutely informs everything. It feels like, yes, I'm writing history, but I'm trying to write out of time. One of the things about writing aspirationally at a time when there is no theater, is you also can't write to a specific time, you know, in the pandemic moment, writing in the pandemic moment you cannot write to the pandemic moment, right? Because you know, oh, this will not be, this is not when these plays will be seen. So you're writing for a kind of a future, right? You're writing for a time that you hope is different, in good ways, but you also acknowledge may be different in, in unpleasant ways.   Miko Lee: [00:44:15] Right.   Lloyd Suh: [00:44:16] But it's also like all of this is out of time, you know, the phenomenon of violence against Asian Americans or against anybody or against a culture is so pervasive throughout history. Right. So, it's not hard to make that or to let that exist out of time. Right.   Miko Lee: [00:44:35] I mean, the violence against the culture is deeply American.   Lloyd Suh: [00:44:38] Yeah. And feeling like it's not something you have to force. It's just something that you have to acknowledge and reckon with on its own terms, which is to say, it's not about 2020. It's not about a particular moment. It's about a long arc of history where these things come from, how they've brewed, how they've festered, how they've lingered, how they've been ignored and forgotten and buried over, and how they might be transformed. How they might be diagnosed, you know, like I think of them as wounds. In a few of these plays, characters refer to, like a sense of historical trauma as a wound, a wound that you can't recognize if you don't know where it comes from. You can't diagnose it and you can't heal it if you can't diagnose it. So part of it is like saying, “Hey, there is a wound.” When I think for a very long time a lot of cultural tradition has been to say, “Push it away, push it away. Move on.”   Miko Lee: [00:45:31] “Keep working. Don't, don't think about it. Just keep working.”   Lloyd Suh: [00:45:33] Yes. Yes. Bury it. And even generation to generation, you don't want to hear those stories.   Miko Lee: [00:45:38] That's right.   Lloyd Suh: [00:45:39] If I have a thesis in any of this, [laughs] it's that, no, we need, you need to know. You know, I think that these characters, this is too early for them to have a name for the concept of epigenetics, but I see it. I see it in tradition, this idea that it does pass down.   Miko Lee: [00:45:54] The trauma through the bloodline.   Lloyd Suh: [00:45:56] Yeah. And so like, if you're going to feel the pain, you got to know where it comes from. If you know where it comes from and if you can deal with it with people, right, with a community on a deep level, then it can be healed. And if you don't, then it never will be.   Miko Lee: [00:46:10] So do you look at most of your plays as a healing modality? Is that what you want from your audiences?   Lloyd Suh: [00:46:15] That's a great question. I mean, I think about that for myself, I would say on a certain level. I mean, I think about it as many things, but that is part of it. Yeah. Like I think about it as I need to understand this. Like, you know, like just thinking about the exclusion era. I felt like, okay, I know I need to write about this because I know we need to make sense of it for myself. I need to understand how it manifests in my life, how it manifests in what is possible for my children, how it manifests in America. So that's part of it for sure for me and for my peers, the people in the room. For audiences, I would say, especially as I've gotten older, I've started to redefine my relationship with audiences in that, like, I had a playwriting teacher once talk about how a playwright's job is to unify an audience. That no matter where an audience comes from, like whatever happened to them that day, they're all coming from different places when they gather in the theater. But through the course of the play, a playwright wants them to become one organism and have the same discoveries in the same moment.   Miko Lee: [00:47:13] Oh, that's interesting. Do you agree with that?   Lloyd Suh: [00:47:16] For a long time I did, but then I had this moment when I was writing a play for young audiences, when I found this really useful tension between like the adults who, you know, thought that the fart jokes were juvenile [laughs] and the young people who would just not understand these references that are there for the adults. And it was kind of cool because you'd feel pockets, different people reacting in different ways. And especially as I was doing some of these early history plays, I found this useful tension between people based on socio location. That Asian American audiences were just naturally responding to different things in a way that was kind of interesting. And so what I realized is if I manipulate an audience so that they're operating as one organism, they're not responding as themselves. They're not responding in as deeply personal of a way, right? So what I want is for people to bring something of themselves to it. Like, no matter what happened to them that day, no matter what happened in the news, no matter what happened in their personal life, that through the experience of watching a play, they can relate something of themselves to what they're watching, and they can bring that into the theater with them. and so, like very purposefully in these plays, I try not to unify an audience, right? Which is to say, I'm not trying to divide them, but I'm also trying to make them respond as individuals.   Miko Lee: [00:48:37] Right, because the first one actually feels like you're trying to get a cult together. Everybody should think the same way and feel the same way, as opposed to individually responding about where each of us are at and how we take in that information of the play.   Lloyd Suh: [00:48:52] Yeah, yeah. And I just find that so much more satisfying because I like to leave a lot of room in my plays, for actors, for directors and designers to personalize.   Miko Lee: [00:49:02] All the other creatives to be able to have their input to put it into their voice.   Lloyd Suh: [00:49:07] Yeah, and just even to make choices like there are moments where you could go many directions like if somebody were to ask me, “Hey, what does this line mean?” I would say, “Well, you know, like, what does it mean to you?” Right? Like it's make it yours. Every character can have secrets that I don't need to know.   Miko Lee: [00:49:22] Oh, you're doing therapy speak with the actors [laughs]. What do you think it means?   Lloyd Suh: [00:49:26] Yeah, I mean, I think it is. It's like making choices, making big choices that allow for any production to be an amalgamation of many people's real personality, their history. Like if I were to go into a rehearsal room and just spend it making everybody do what I already know, I want them to do. Then watching the play is just watching something where I already know what's going to happen.   Miko Lee: [00:49:47] Right. What's the fun in that? [Laughs]. Um, so let's come back and talk about The Far Country, which is at Berkeley Rep right now. Tell us about this play. I heard you saying that each of your plays, the rabbit hole of the journey that one discovered the other, but can you tell us very specifically about The Far Country?   Lloyd Suh: [00:50:07] Yeah, The Far Country is a play that takes place during the exclusion era, about a very unlikely family that spans across a couple of decades navigating the paper son system, and the experience of a young man on Angel Island Detention Center. The journey leading up to that and the journey leading away from it as this very unlikely family tries to build something lasting in America, despite the extraordinary legislative restrictions that were in place at the time.   Miko Lee: [00:50:36] Lloyd, can you speak a little bit more for audience members that may not know what the Exclusion Act was?   Lloyd Suh: [00:50:42] Yes, totally. The Chinese Exclusion Act was legislation passed in 1882, that restricted all Chinese laborers from entering the United States. And this was a period of time when China was, specifically Toisan was ravaged by natural disaster, war, economic disenfranchisement, horribly one sided trade agreements with the West. There was an extraordinary wave of Chinese laborers who were immigrating to the United States in the years preceding. Partially through the gold rush, partially through the opportunity to work on the transcontinental railroad. In the United States, it was a period of such xenophobia and such anger and hatred towards these incoming Chinese laborers that these extraordinarily restrictive laws were passed, the Page Act, prior to the Chinese Exclusion Act. But what also happened is the great earthquake of 1906 in San Francisco destroyed all the government records pertaining to birth records and who was there. So it created this really odd opportunity for Chinese currently residing in the United States to claim birthright citizenship, to claim to have been born in the United States because there was no documentation to prove otherwise. And if somebody was able to obtain birthright US citizenship through that process, they could then bring their children to the United States. And so what it did was it created this system whereby people who had obtained birthright US citizenship could then pretend to have a son or a daughter that they would sell that slot to so that somebody could enter the United States. And so it created these really kind of patchwork unlikely families of people connected only by paper, only by false documentation. And the navigation of that system, ultimately created this very weird community.   Miko Lee: [00:52:32] Expand on that. What do you mean by weird community?   Lloyd Suh: [00:52:36] People who were not able to be themselves, who changed their names, who at least on paper were pretending to be somebody else. Families that were not connected by blood, but pretending to be connected by blood. A community that was almost entirely male, a community that was in the United States, but not really permitted to travel outside of a particular geographical area. This was a community that was constructed in reaction to legislation, in reaction to imprisonment on Angel Island. And in reaction to the horrible conditions of that time. What's remarkable to me is the ways in which they built a community anyway, they built families anyway, they built opportunity anyway, and the resilience of that, the bravery of that, the sacrifice of that, is something that I am simultaneously in awe of, but also feel a responsibility and an obligation to build on to honor, to try and illuminate in some way to try to share with others. But also just to recognize the incredible pain of it, that they gave up everything, like really everything. They gave up their name, they gave up their family, they gave up their identity, in order to pretend to be somebody who belongs. That's the only way to build any kind of future. These were pioneers who did things that it's hard for me to imagine. But I know that they did it for us. Not just us, but for the future, for future generations, for you know, those who come after, and that is very powerful to me.   Miko Lee: [00:54:03] I appreciate that as a fifth generation Chinese American, whose family comes from Toisan, whose grandmother was on angel island under a different name because her husband, my grandfather had bought papers from her great grandfather so that they could not actually be married because on paper they would be brother and sister. So even though she had a legal right to actually be in the U. S., she had to take a whole new name and a different identity on Angel Island. So we all have these complicated stories that are part of our history. Thank you for rising that up and bringing that to the world. I'm wondering what you want the walk away message for folks coming to see The Far Country.   Lloyd Suh: [00:54:49] Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. The only way I can answer it is to go back to what I said before about wanting people to respond personally. Like I think everybody has a history, everybody has a family history, and everybody's is different, but I hope that anybody who watches this play has moments where they can think about their ancestry. About the things they know and the things that they don't know and just change their relationship to that somehow, just really reflect on it and reflect on not just their personal history, but how it relates to their definition of what it is to be an America. To add this really huge, but underexplored moment in American history and add it to their accounting of what it is to be a citizen, what it is to be an American. Cause one of the things about this history, as I'm describing the paper son process, depending on a person's particular relationship with the concept of immigration and depending on a person's political leanings, you know, some might hear my description of that and say, “Well, these are criminals. These are people who abused the system.” And I think that is a part of this history. One of the reasons it's buried. One of the reasons it's not talked about is because there is a sense of shame, societal shame, cultural shame, that these things were necessary, right? Shame is part of it. I don't want to pretend it's not, but I also want to acknowledge that in addition to whatever that sense of shame is, is a sense of pride. A sense of bravery, a sense of dignity, a sense of aspiration, what people were willing to do in order to build something for the future, for us, for their families. So a part of that is like just knowing that many of those stories still are untold, and wanting to uplift and honor, and, acknowledge, the beauty in these pockets that have historically felt painful.   Miko Lee: [00:56:48] Thank you Lloyd Suh for joining us on Apex Express.   Lloyd Suh: [00:56:51] Thanks so much. Appreciate it.   Miko Lee: [00:56:52] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.   The post APEX Express – 3.21.24 Community in Time of Hardship appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Living Legacies: LARRY THE MUSICAL x MISTER REY TRIBUTE Host Aisa Villarosa covers “Larry the Musical” a new theatrical production based on the book “Journey for Justice: The Life of Larry Itliong” written by Gayle Romasanta and the late Dr. Dawn Mabalon. Nomi aka Power Struggle and Aisa also honor an anchor and leader of the Bay Area Filipinx and civil rights community –  Mister REY. Links to Episode Features: Larry The Musical website: https://www.larrythemusical.com/   Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: https://www.instagram.com/pinayism/?hl=en Billy Bustamante: https://www.billybustamante.com/ Mister REY Memorial GoFundMe https://misterrey.bandcamp.com/album/wonders-mysticisms-beat-tape Power Struggle https://soundcloud.com/mario-de-mira Show Transcripts Living Legacies: Larry the Musical x Mister REY tribute Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community And cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board The Apex Express Aisa Villarosa: [00:00:28] You're listening to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA Berkeley, 89.3 KPFB Berkeley, 88.1 KFC at Fresno and online at KPFA. org. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I am your host, Aisa Villarosa. I'm an artist, attorney, ethnic studies advocate, general rabble rouser, and lifetime fan of the Apex Express crew. Shout out to my homie Miko. Get comfy, get cozy. We have a wonderful show for you tonight. It's a show about a show, that is Larry The Musical, which is based on the book Journey for Justice: The Life of Larry Itliong, written by Gayle Romasanta, and the wondrous late great Dr. Dawn Mabolon. The story and songs are influenced by and honor our ancestors, and the musical debuts at San Francisco's very own Brava Theater running March 16th through April 14th, 2024. That means, seats are limited. So, in addition to checking out the show we have for you tonight, visit www.larrythemusical.com to get your tickets today, learn about this cast and crew. Now for our show. First up we'll hear about Larry Itliong's legacy of organizing, resistance, and community power building from Dr. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales. Next, Larry The Musical director Billy Bustamante, previews the heart, soul, and talent behind this production. And, because we're pretty big of a deal here [laughs] we'll also hear a sneak peek of two songs from Larry The Musical. Finally, the artist Power Struggle will help me wrap up this episode by honoring an anchor and leader of the Bay Area Filipinx and civil rights community and our friend, Mister REY. Rest in power. All right, that's the show. Let's dig in. I'm here with Dr. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales, one of the country's leading Ethnic Studies and Filipinx studies scholars and professors, co-founder and director of Community Responsive Education, and the educational consultant for Larry The Musical. Allyson, it's so wonderful to have you here. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:02:34] My gosh, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this show and all the work that you've been doing for many years. Thank you so much. Aisa Villarosa: [00:02:41] For our dedicated Apex Express listeners who may not be familiar with the wonderful Larry Itliong. Can you talk a little bit about who he is and who he is to this particular Civil Rights Movement? Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:02:57] Larry Itliong. He was born in the Philippines, in San Nicolas Pangasinan. He came here at 15 years old. Imagine coming here at 15 years old. He only had a sixth grade education. And he came here, actually in order to pursue his studies and he moved to the United States in 1929. As you probably know, because of the Great Depression, it was difficult to find jobs. He was forced to work in the railroads and then eventually became a migrant farm worker. And he traveled all the way from like Montana, South Dakota, Washington, and finally landed here in California. So during that time, Larry Itliong learned of the plight suffered by Filipinos and other immigrants working in the fields. Larry Itliong was a prominent leader in one of the most important social justice movements in the US, and we call that the Farm Worker Movement. A lot of Filipinos involved along with Mexicanos. He organized a group of 1500 Filipinos to strike against the grape growers in Delano, California. Some people call that the great Delano Grape strike of 1965. Basically they were trying to fight for workers' rights. They had this strike for eight days. And there was tons of violence by the growers, hired hands, and even the sheriff department, and they were thrown out of the labor camp. Larry Itliong. He was strong and he remained tenacious and resilient. And he called upon someone very famous that many of us know Cesar Chavez, and Cesar Chavez' community, to join forces with the Filipinos and they striked again. Because of Larry Itliong, the two groups combined and they ended up becoming the United Farm Workers. And a lot of us know the United Farm Workers and a lot of it is attributed to Cesar Chavez, but really Larry Itliong really pushed that ability to create a coalition. To create a connection to really fight for collective liberation. So this unification between the farmworkers of all different ethnicities, not just Filipino and Mexicano was really unprecedented. And really set an example for many of us—many of us meaning workers and organizers—many of us learned from that movement, how to really create alignment, how to really create a coalition, how to really fight alongside each other. And that movement was very successful. You may or may not know this, but Larry Itliong also was the president of the Filipino American Political Association, the first national political Filipino American organization. And it was very crucial, between Filipino professionals and laborers, that grew out of the Delano Grape strike. Larry Itliong was instrumental in founding lots of things including the Pablo Agbayani Village, a Retirement Home built by volunteers for retired Filipino Manos, who no longer had families and needed a place to call home. I recently visited Agbayani Village with my family. Even in my own family, my husband, his father was one of the farm workers, and it means a great deal to actually be there at Agbayani Village, quite literally, you feel the spirits. And having, having brought my daughter there and she got to, you know, see, where our ancestors lived. Larry Itliong, he passed away in 1977 at the age of sixty-three, very young. He left behind his wife and seven children. But his accomplishments and his legacy, continues to live and we really reap the benefits from all the work that he did. Aisa Villarosa: [00:06:41] I got shivers at several points when you shared Allyson. Thank you. And I am told that as part of your work as educational consultant for Larry The Musical, that one of your unique roles is helping the cast see history in this moment and see what Larry's struggle and Larry's story is to them and their families. So I love that sort of full circle practice. It also means that for a musical to take on you know you've named some, some pretty heavy things, right? You're naming organizing struggle, you're naming the struggle against white supremacy. Can you talk a little bit about what makes this musical special and, and even to be able to do right by Larry and his story, how did you all bring this to life? Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:07:33] Whoa. That's a really important set of questions and I really appreciate the connections between what's happening on the stage and what's happening in our classrooms and, you know, what's really happening in our communities. It is a really important show. I think a lot of shows have said, “Oh, we're a hundred percent this, we're a hundred percent that.” But when I go into working with the cast, I really see a hundred percent Filipino, Filipina, Filipinx Americans who are really telling a story that is important. Larry's story is not glamorous, [laughs] you know, and I say that because I've seen a lot of Broadway shows. You know, I have a child who's a performer and I spend a lot of time in New York, and I really do love watching musicals. And so this genre is like happy times for me, right? I go in and I get, I mean, they start singing and I, I just want to cry right away [laughs]. But there's something so powerful, yes, about a hundred percent Filipino cast, but also telling a story about struggle, and about labor, about someone who's working class, who really has changed our lives. I think sometimes when I go to musicals, I try to find myself, you know, like on stage I'm like, which character am I? You know? And in this musical I really feel like I'm all the characters. And you will see this, you know, because there's Larry, of course, this, it's a story about Larry Itliong, but you will see characters, and the creative team has wonderfully weaved characters from different parts of that era, and then also maybe even parts of their own lives and their own families, and they land on stage. They are telling this story alongside Larry, and it's beautiful and I'm really, really excited for people to see it. I'm not going to, I'm not gonna give too much away. Aisa Villarosa: [00:09:39] [Laughs] People gotta buy tickets. Yes. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:09:41] Buy your tickets and bring your tissue [laughs]. Because I really feel like people are going to not only see Larry on stage, but they're gonna see themselves, their families, their parents, their community, their ancestors, all of them there. I will say that, I had the fortune of working with the cast, specifically on a project called Tatlong Bagsak Talambuhay and what I said to the cast was, this work has to be different. This work cannot just be about telling one man's story. And so it's really important for them to understand their own story, their own family's legacy, and why they're doing this work. And so at the beginning of each of the rehearsals, there's one cast member who tells their story. Talambuhay, you know, telling their life story. So that every person is allowed to share their story on the stage, quite literally. And also to be able to make the connections to why they're there on that stage. I had one cast member come up to me last week and say, “I've never been part of a [laughs] a show like this. You know, like where I was seen.” And that's the power of Larry The Musical. It, it's definitely about Larry and how he has inspired us, but it is so much more. And so I'm really excited for people to be able to experience that. Aisa Villarosa: [00:11:18] I was lucky enough to attend the community preview y'all had put on in the fall. It was smashing and I could feel Dawn Mabalon's love and spirit in the room because so much of what you're saying is how are we creating a living archive, right? And there's so many stories that make up history that ultimately is intentionally not told or kept away from people. So it sounds like this is hopefully one of many opportunities for folks to either learn that history for the first time, or to learn it in a really freeing way. I want to talk a little bit about women. If we look at various movements across labor, thinking about the figures of labor, you know, you have Larry, you have Philip Vera Cruz. I am sure there are some strong, strong women in Larry. And as a Filipina we also see that the value of care work, of women really it's often invisibilized by history. Talk to us a little bit about, you know, what can we expect to see from the women in Larry? Are there any toxic narratives that are reversed or addressed by the musical? Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:12:32] I feel like you saw the script. [Laughs]. Aisa Villarosa: [00:12:34] I didn't. I did not. [Laughs]. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:12:36] Oh, okay. Okay. I can't give up too much. It'd be really unfair, but I'll say that this begins with the strong women who did the research and who wrote the play, the musical, the book, the script. And I'll start with, a lot of the work is rooted in Dr. Dawn Bohulano's research. I mean, she really was going to tell Larry Itliong's story in an academic book. And before she passed, she was able to write Journey for Justice with Gayle Romasanta. It was, it quite literally went to press the day that she passed. Dr. Dawn Bohulano Mabalon had a dream to really tell Larry's story, but I know deep inside it wasn't just about Larry's story, it was a story about her family. It was a story about her ancestors, including the women. And so I think how beautiful it is to have quite literally the voice and research of Dr. Dawn Bohulano Mabalon in the script that Gayle Romasanta really was able to bring forth. So we have writers like Gayle Romasanta, Kevin Camia, and then writing the music we have Brian Pangilinan, and then you'll hear the sounds of course of Sean Kana. But when we talk and think about the women, the voices quite literally, the singing voices of the women are so powerful. I think sometimes people imagine women during that movement as being behind the men. In this show, that's not the case. I think of the work of Stacey Salinas, Dr. Stacey Salinas, who writes about Filipina farmworkers in the movement. She has some beautiful archives of Filipina women during that time. And you literally see them on the stage and you see them challenging men and you see them saying yes, we are part of this struggle. And so, although it's called Larry The Musical, Larry definitely isn't the main character by himself. Aisa Villarosa: [00:14:40] I love that. And what you shared also reminds me of thinking about the people power movement and the phrase makibaka huwag matakot, where there is power in struggle, right? If, if we can come together collectively. Turning to the musical, it's going to premiere soon. We hope that folks visit the Apex Express website [kpfa.org] where y'all can buy tickets. Please support this incredible work. What is your greatest hope for this musical? Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:15:11] Ooh, that's a good question. It caught me off guard. I secretly hope that this musical goes beyond the Bay Area, potentially travels, potentially goes to Broadway, maybe the Philippines. You know, I want people to know how wonderful our story is, our story. And you will really see our story in this. So yeah, I hope it makes it big. [Laughs] I, I really do. We deserve it. Aisa Villarosa: [00:15:41] Well, it's not a secret anymore. You, you manifested it, so now it's gotta happen, right? [Laughs]. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:15:47] Yeah, I really do. I mean, I hope, I hope for all of that. And to be honest, I don't think the Pinnacle is Broadway in my mind. It might've been when we first started the project, but really, I, I feel like most importantly is for people to know the stories of our people. And Larry The Musical can really bring that out. And I hope people can see themselves on stage. I mean, that is a big goal for them to be able to see themselves on stage. Aisa Villarosa: [00:16:13] Allyson, it's been so wonderful talking with you. Before we head out, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listeners? Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:16:21] There's so many struggles going on right now in the world, whether that be, like the manifestation of colonialism and imperialism everywhere, to what's happening in our classrooms. I feel like really key that Larry The Musical is ethnic studies. I think [it's] important that people know that the goal of ethnic studies is collective liberation and we do that by centering the voices of people of color in the first person, ultimately to eliminate and eradicate racism and white supremacy. I mean, like it's all of that. Aisa Villarosa: [00:16:50] Yeah. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:16:51] But I want people to know that Larry is that, and I think sometimes we get stuck on wanting representation, like, oh, I wanna see a Filipino on stage. And so we vote for people on those shows and we get so excited. Aisa Villarosa: [00:17:05] Or that becomes the ceiling, right? Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:17:08] Exactly. It becomes the ceiling. We have made it because we've seen ourselves on TV or we've seen ourselves on a stage on Broadway, but I think it's not enough. Because those stories oftentimes are not the stories of our own people. We often play characters who are not ourselves, and we oftentimes have to compromise our integrity to actually become famous. And so for me, when I think about Larry The Musical, it does not compromise. It does not compromise. And it really is about our stories and us telling our stories in the first person. I'll leave it at that. Aisa Villarosa: [00:17:44] I love that. It's such a great way to send us off. And as someone who used to work in the arts and has been shushed at primarily white events, I love the decolonization of the arts as well. It's arts and ethnic studies. So many folks in our work do this work because of a really important moment in ethnic studies that came to them. Unfortunately, because of the forces that are out there trying to stop ethnic studies, for many that revelation comes kind of late in life or sometimes doesn't come at all. So, please let us have more Larry, more stories like Larry and more ways for folks to access this sort of awakening. Thank you so much, Allyson. It has been a pleasure. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales: [00:18:31] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all the work that you do. Aisa Villarosa: [00:18:34] As Allyson shared, Larry The Musical is a lesson in living civil rights history, a chronicle of the racial violence faced by Filipinx organizers and how they mobilize to overcome it. This plays out in the musical's track, “Watsonville,” which we're about to preview. In the 1930s, violence against Filipinos was a daily occurrence. It was not out of the ordinary for Filipinos to get shot at, be beaten, or have their campos bombed. Two major events happened in January 1930, the Watsonville Riots and the bombing of the Filipino Federation of American Building in Stockton California. The Watsonville riots saw hundreds of Filipinos beaten and Fermin Tobera killed over four days of mob violence. White mobs beat and shot Filipinos, and in the end, no one was arrested. “Watsonville” follows our characters as these historic events unfold. It was written by Gayle Romasanta and Kevin Camia, music composed by Bryan Pangilinan and Sean Kana. Let's take a listen. SONG Aisa Villarosa: [00:19:39] You're listening to Apex Express on KPFA Radio with me, Aisa Villarosa. That was a special preview of “Watsonville” from Larry The Musical. I'm here with acclaimed New York City-based theater artist, director, performer teacher, and community-driven artivist Billy Bustamante, director of Larry The Musical. We are so honored to have you join us, Billy. Billy Bustamante: [00:21:02] Hi there. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here. Aisa Villarosa: [00:21:06] Awesome. Well, we are going to dive into Larry The Musical. And a few months ago I had the honor of catching the community preview at the Brava Theater in San Francisco and it blew my socks off as a mentee of the great ate Dawn Mabalon, a hero and mentor gone too soon, it was beautiful to see her archiving come alive in song. For those who are new to Larry The Musical, can you tell us a little bit about what audiences can expect? Billy Bustamante: [00:21:38] Sure. When you come to the Brava Theater this spring, you will see a story about our shared Filipino American history, but even greater our shared American history brought to life on stage. You will see a story that centers Filipino Americans in the telling of that history. It is a musical that will make you laugh, will make you cry, will make you dance in your seat, and will hopefully make you step back out into the world as you leave the theater with a little more power in your hands. Aisa Villarosa: [00:22:06] Those all sound so incredible. Billy, can you share more, as someone who has been in the arts world for so long, why is this project near and dear to your heart? Billy Bustamante: [00:22:18] Larry means so much to me for so many reasons. I've been making theater now for a little over 20 years professionally. And throughout that time I have kind of had to hold two sides of myself in various capacities, right? I have my American-ness, and I have my Filipino-ness. As a born and raised Filipino American here in the States, I have always had to examine unconsciously how much of myself I can bring into an artistic space just because those spaces have predominantly been white led. Now that we are in a space that is created for by and about Filipino people telling a story that is for by and about Filipino people that really centers not just Filipino story, but the Filipino identity, not just in the product but in the process, that is a feeling I have literally never had before in my 42 years on this planet. And every time I step into this space, I am amazed at how much more myself I feel, and I can see that sensation flashing in every single person in the room. And it's on one side beautiful. It's like a beautiful thing to witness us all kind of come alive a bit more, expand into the space, be more of ourselves. And it's also a bit infuriating to know that it's taken me 42 years to get to this moment. This feeling of true belonging is something that I have grown more and more addicted to and that I continue to chase in any other experience that I have. Aisa Villarosa: [00:23:46] Wow. I'm getting a little goosebumps over here. I am hearing that it's, it's almost like coming home to yourself, that often, and I too have a Filipino family, grew up here I'm second generation, and often the dominant culture's understanding of Filipinos is limited to very simplistic notions, whether that's our food, even if food is very political. Billy Bustamante: [00:24:11] Yes. Aisa Villarosa: [00:24:11] There's often sort of a niceness, and the arts and culture world is no exception. So thank you for sharing. And in thinking about the cast of the musical, can you share what makes this cast special and unique? Billy Bustamante: [00:24:29] I am a firm believer that theater artists of any background are some of the most exhilarating people in the world [laughs]. As a theater artist, specifically as a musical theater artist, there is so much skill you must be able to access in order to do your job. It's not just one thing at a time, it is all things at a time. So we are making a show that sings, acts and dances all the time [laughs], and within that there's that triple threat of skill while also incorporating this fourth ingredient of identity and shared history. So each of the actors that we have brought into this cast has really shown up with not just those first three skills in brilliant capacity, but also a hunger and an enthusiasm to be generous about how they bring this fourth ingredient into the process. Again, another thing none of us have been able to do in an artistic space before. For so many of us, it's our first time bringing ourselves to the work in this way. Because none of us have had a chance to do it. So many of us have never played Filipino on stage before, let alone Filipino Americans specifically. I know I've been lucky to have played Filipinos on stage and have been telling Filipino stories, but none of those have been led by Filipinos or written by Filipinos. So there's a level of not just authenticity, but integrity to the work and the story we're telling that allows each of these cast members to be greater like artistic citizens and contributors to the work. Aisa Villarosa: [00:25:58] I love that. There's in Filipino culture, the word kapwa, right? Which is collective identity. And I was reading a quote from you and you said, “My favorite thing about Filipinx culture is creating community. If you've shared a meal with a Filipinx family, you're family.” And it sounds like here you're talking about a meal but this theater experience and all the prep that y'all did, there's a family feeling to that, and can you share some of the behind the scenes love and care and intentionality that went into creating Larry? Billy Bustamante: [00:26:33] Yes. Yes. I, I love that you found that quote. I can't remember when I said it, but I know I say it a lot. [Laughs]. Aisa Villarosa: [00:26:39] I was creeping on the internet. [Laughs]. Billy Bustamante: [00:26:40] I love it. I, and I do firmly believe, like that's one of my favorite things about Filipino culture. Yeah. If you sit at my table, you leave as a family member, right? And I do think that's the environment we wanna create for the audience as well. This piece of art that we are creating is what I hope will be a fully nourishing seven course meal of artistry that again, audience members come into the theater as guests and they leave as family. That is my hope. How we get there is, has been a thrilling experiment, again, as a theater maker for like 20 plus years, the pandemic, this pandemic pause that was forced upon us as artists, really forced me to examine, but I think forced the greater industry to examine the dysfunction in how we do what we do. And now that we have started creating theater again, I've personally been on this, you know, mission to honor the science experiment that we're all on in terms of a, how to be in a room together and then how to create art together and hopefully a healthier more empowering way across the board. So knowing that's been a mission I've been on with any theater project I take on, for this one specifically there is so much more importance laid onto that particular ingredient, right? How do we make a healthier room? How do we make a more restorative healing process for everyone? Recognizing that the story we are telling impacts the actors and their bodies in a way that no other story does, right? There is an additional toll and cost to reckoning with your own history on stage. And it's, it's a privilege to get to do that, but that does mean we need to reexamine what supportive systems and structures we are creating in the room. Again, this is all an experiment [laughs] and it's going well so far, but some steps we have taken or to gather our company. Our company, on the first full day of rehearsal when we got all the actors together. One thing I was excited about our first day of rehearsal was that we took a good amount of time to sit in a circle and create what we called community commitments. Like a set of shared agreements that we all were participatory in creating that gave us all a guideline of how we treat each other in this space. So now it's thrilling, it's freeing to have this social contract in place that we have all agreed to, that not just allows for the pursuit of an ideal space, but also a way to kind of move through conflict as we pursue that space. So to me that feels really helpful. Another thing we just did in rehearsal yesterday, was we brought Allyson in to lead a facilitation of how we bring our personal individual stories to this greater story that we are telling. We are telling a history and we are living history in this moment. So it was amazing to hear Allyson give us a technique for how we share our individual stories as humans to the rest of the company, which is a practice we will start incorporating at the beginning of every rehearsal. And I can only wait to see how much that impacts the art that we make on stage, knowing that everyone will know more and be more invested with each other as humans. Aisa Villarosa: [00:29:32] And you're talking about living history, right? And as you were sharing, I wrote down safety to create. It's rare that we as folks of color as Filipinos can be in these safe liberatory spaces. Taking it a little personal, has your family seen Larry yet? Billy Bustamante: [00:29:50] Well, I mean, no one really has, [laughs] you know, our world premiere in March will be a world premiere. No one will, even if people have seen every workshop, this is a version of the musical in its fullest form that no one will have ever seen before. So in that way, I'm very excited. With that said, my parents have been keeping up with all the filmed workshops and the interviews, and that's all been amazing. Both of my parents are on the east coast. They're in the DC area, which is where I'm from. So they're keeping up with it virtually. But I am so excited for them to fly out here, to catch opening weekend. I'm getting a little emotional talking about it right now, but my parents are incredibly supportive as is the rest of my family. And they do a great job at coming to see and support whatever I do. And this one, having them in the room to watch this one, I think will be a really special experience. Aisa Villarosa: [00:30:43] I, I can feel love and as a huge fan, a mentee of folks like Dr. Allyson and Dawn Mabalon there's a moment where a lot of Filipinos, Filipino organizations are trying to archive the struggle, the triumphs of the past, and it's incredible that through theater y'all are doing that in a way that will be fresh for new generations. And speaking of theater, you are always creating, you wear so many hats. Tell us what is coming down the road for you in addition to Larry, would love to hear more. Billy Bustamante: [00:31:26] Yeah. I'm gonna put this into the ether here. I, my hope is that this world premiere of Larry will be the first of many steps for this musical. So what I hope is that the next few years includes more productions of Larry at a bigger and wider scale. With that said, there are a few other projects that I'm really excited about. I am a theater leader, but also an educator. So I'm on teaching faculty at Circle in the Square Theater School, which is the only theater training ground attached to a Broadway theater. So, in that way I feel really excited about the work I get to do with young artists there. We are developing a new musical called The Rosetta Project, which I hope everyone checks out. It's gonna be amazing. I'll be directing that. From there I have a couple of, you know, other pots on the stove. I'll be directing, choreographing a new off-Broadway show called Straight Forward in spring of 2025, which I'm very excited about. There are a couple of other things that I cannot release at this moment, but if you want to keep up with the [laughs] shenanigans I am up to, please check out billybustamante.com because I'll be sure to be shouting from the rooftops with excitement once I can. Aisa Villarosa: [00:32:36] Beautiful. And we will include links to your website, Billy, as well as links for folks to get tickets for Larry at the Brava Theatre. And folks can check that out on the Apex Express website [kpfa.org]. And Billy, before we go, is there anything else you want to share? Billy Bustamante: [00:32:55] I think there is one thing. I'm usually not a person who really is enthusiastic about promoting my projects [laughs]. I've always kind of felt some sense of ickiness around that. Some sense of like transactionality around that [laughs]. But Larry is so special to me and there's a spirit that we are creating in this piece that I think everyone needs to experience and be a part of. And I also recognize that, you know, where audience members choose to spend their money is a big investment and a big decision and I hope that everyone who is excited by anything I've said today or anything we've talked about today finds a way to grab a ticket and join us at the theater. This time will be fleeting and it's gonna be over before we know it, and I really hope everyone gets to be a part of it because I think it's gonna be really special so get those tickets if you can. Aisa Villarosa: [00:33:49] Adding a plus one to that. And Billy, you earlier mentioned the impact of these covid pandemic years and yeah, that was the longest period of theater closures, right? Since World War II. As someone who used to work in the arts I also recall that often there's sort of an elite nature to the arts and one of my favorite things when I go to the Larry website is there are so many people who gave all sorts of amounts to make this happen, right? There's folks who gave like 50 bucks. It's such a welcoming site, so I too hope that this is only the beginning. Billy Bustamante: [00:34:28] Awesome. Thank you so much and thanks to everyone who supported us so far. I'm so grateful. Aisa Villarosa: [00:34:32] Our final track from Larry The Musical is called “Train,” which is about Filipinos jumping trains throughout the western United States, traveling from town to town in search of work in the 1920s and 1930s. Train was written by Gayle Romasanta and Kevin Camia, music composed by Brian Pangilinan and Sean Kana. They wanted to create a broad picture of how the thousands of Filipinos must have met each other, built friendships, planned labor meetings, and all while traveling. Here is the exclusive preview. SONG Aisa Villarosa: [00:35:03] You're listening to Apex Express on KPFA Radio, and I'm your host, Aisa Villarosa. That was a preview of “Train” from Larry The Musical. You just heard Dr. Allyson Tintiangco-Cubales and Billy Bustamante talk about what makes the world premiere of Larry The Musical so special. Larry debuts at the Brava Theatre in San Francisco March 16th through April 14th, 2024. Seats are limited, so visit www.larrythemusical.com to buy tickets today. Finally, tonight's episode of Apex Express is dedicated to the life and legacy of Reynaldo Timosa Novicio Jr. a father, son, friend, and prolific sound producer, artist and guiding light of the Filipinx American and Bay Area Music and Civil Rights community. Rey passed away on February 2nd, 2024. I'm joined right now by a friend, a colleague, an incredible artist, activist dad, and a martial arts practitioner, Nomi, AKA Power Struggle. Nomi, it's so great to have you on the show today. Nomi (Power Struggle): [00:37:12] Hey Aisa, thank you for having me. Thank you to the KPFA and the Apex Express listeners. What's up Bay Area? Aisa Villarosa: [00:37:19] Nomi, you rep the Bay Area hard. I think a good way to start our conversation is given all the hats you wear, all the ways that you're making change: What does it mean to be Filipinx American in the Bay Area right now? Nomi (Power Struggle): [00:37:34] I think right now it is a really important moment to, there's been so much happening in this particular moment around the liberation of Palestine and the end of the genocide in Gaza, and I think that a lot of folks in our community have been really seeing this moment as a way to express their solidarity and mobilize and take action against what's happening to the Palestinians. And I think that is just reflective of the bigger, historical context that a lot of Filipino, Filipinx, Americans, immigrants, have experienced and live under, right? So I believe like a lot of folks are just seeing those connections between colonization, the colonization of the Philippines from various different occupation nations and armies, to what's happening in Palestine. And they make those connections and they even are not that far removed, maybe like two generations removed from the experiences of their grandparents that went through the Japanese occupation during World War II and lived through some of those horrors and they remember that stuff and the stories that they were told and I think that informs a large amount of our community to, to mobilize and take action. I'm not saying that, we don't have more conservative folks in our broad community across the Bay Area, but I believe for a lot of young folks, a lot of folks that have taken time to be part of other movements, whether it be the movement for Black Lives, or Indigenous movements, or even for liberation movements in the Philippines, they kind of understand all these connections, and are building bridges and building solidarity with folks. Aisa Villarosa: [00:39:16] Yeah, it's the young and it's the young at heart, right? I think folks who can be ever curious, and, you know, we have made some headway in ethnic studies where folks are connecting the dots, right, between those shared histories, those living histories of struggle. Tonight's episode started off with a tour of Larry Itliong, the new musical coming out. And it's quite clear that to be Filipino in so many ways means to resist. And as it relates to Larry The Musical, resistance through music is such a powerful form of political organizing. Nomi, you're here today because this episode is also a tribute to our friend who passed away, the wonderful Mister Rey, who you have collaborated with, you have made music with. Can you start by just sharing a little bit about who Rey was to you and maybe talk a little bit about what made your musical collaboration so special? Nomi (Power Struggle): [00:40:27] I'm really thankful for this opportunity to just share the story of Mister REY with the entire Bay Area with the country. Mister REY, Reynaldo Novicio, and I worked on one of our first records together. It was called Remittances. And I met Rey back in around 2009. I can't remember specifically where we met. It just happens in life, especially in the art community, you start talking with people and collaborating, and he would invite me to a spot in Daly City, where he was living at the time with his family, and every Saturday morning we would session. I would go over there with Dennis and Kane, Drew, Vi, and we would just, he would just play beats that he had made, and we would write. And after a few months of that, we slowly started to create this body of work that was starting to be more cohesive that would be like the material for the album, Remittances. A couple months after that, we decided to move in, him and his partner, and their family were moving into a spot in the Excelsior District and they had an extra room. I think I was going through a displacement. I think I was going through an eviction in the mission. And so it all kind of worked out and I ended up moving in with them. And that really was just a great opportunity to live together and continue this process of working on this album, which is to me my favorite piece of work. It's so meaningful. The title Remittances. You know, is a remittance obviously, when you send money to your family back home or abroad, was just such a symbol of the immigrant experience, especially for our community and the Filipino community. And so the title was like an offering of culture and love, for our community through music. And that's why we chose that title Remittances and that offering and love transcends beyond just this neighborhood, but also across the seas to our homelands and throughout our diaspora. That project was just really important. For all the artists out there, when you go through a creative process you're partnering with someone and you live with them it's just like a deeper level of connection and struggle [laughs] as well, right? Because, you live together so and Rey has two twin daughters he has one more now. But at the time, and so, you know, you're just really immersed with the family. And for me, it was also such a beautiful experience because Mister REY was a bridge builder. He really was a tulay. He immigrated from the Philippines at a pretty young age, I think late elementary school or middle school, still very much had the identity of the migrant community you know, Tagalog was his first language a lot of his folks, his homies were a lot of recent immigrant hip hop heads and folks from that community. But he was also able to just because there, there is this kind of conception that there's a divide often between immigrant communities and first or second generation Filipino Americans. And it is true to an extent. I've seen it manifest in high schools and on the streets and things like that. But Rey was really able to bridge these differences and connect folks. And so for me, especially someone that grew up in the Midwest, that didn't really grow up around Filipinos, getting to experience living with Mister Rey and his family and living in the Excelsior District, which has the highest concentration of Filipinos in San Francisco, was just such an immersive and beautiful thing and a reconnection to our culture, on so many levels, and I'm already in my, late 20s at the time, and so to go through this experience was really powerful and eye opening. I think it also related to just like what we're fighting for in San Francisco. You know what I mean in the sense of upholding this identity of being a city of multiple languages, a city of multiple classes and incomes. And, and this is what, like, that experience really upheld. At the time I was also doing a lot of work with the Filipino Community Center as a worker's advocate. I was doing some organizing with Migrante, which is a migrant workers organization. And, for all of these kind of different things, from like the organizing work, to my day job, to living with Mister Rey, and being with the Filipino community in the Excelsior, coming together was like one of my favorite periods of my life where I was really understanding more about our culture, our history, our positionality in society and on a local level, on a national level, and on a global level to really understand how politics and history have brought us to America and to really experience it, right? All of these things were super impactful, and I feel like they helped inform and mold what that album, Remittances, was about. And Mister REY was such a huge part of that, right? He was, you know, he wasn't like this crazy political scientist but through his lived experience and his own way of analyzing his life and things he had been through was very sharp and also informing the kind of political influences of this record. So yeah, it was just such a really important time. I don't think I can ever come close to doing something like that again. I just thank him for that year or two that we lived together, embracing me and letting me come into their family life and just being in community with them. His work in terms of, if you visit his catalog of albums, which I highly recommend folks to check out his bandcamp. And it's just Mister REY, M-I-S-T-E-R R-E-Y, check that out and you can hear all of his work. So much like high level art, beat production wise is really sophisticated. He still embraces most of all of his writing and his rapping is in Tagalog. He sprinkles a lot of English in it too but it's just a really beautiful body of work where people in our diaspora can really identify with and just get a lot of nourishment from. So I really suggest folks go check out his catalog. It's really accessible on Bandcamp. Aisa Villarosa: [00:46:40] Nomi, thank you for opening your heart and sharing about what sounded like a really intimate process, right? To make music with someone. And I know the last time I was at Rey's place, he loves his kitchen so I feel like y'all also broke bread, right? Not just making the beats. I was also struck by Rey was such a multi-dimensional advocate, right? Whether it was mental health, whether it was youth issues, right? All of the sort of organizing he did to challenge juvenile curfew laws, for example. You've today brought a track that you worked on with Rey. It's titled “ArtOfficial Freedom” and I'd love for you to cue up the track and just share a little bit about the music. Nomi (Power Struggle): [00:47:31] This was a signature single on the album. It was produced by Mister REY and it also features Mister REY singing the chorus, where he just does a pretty basic refrain where he says, “round and round.” This was like, I feel like for me at least, or many hip hop artists, I think they have that one single on every album that represents the whole album, and I think this is the one. Like I mentioned earlier, around like all the different things that I was doing at the time in terms of community organizing and workers organizing and all the stuff that he was doing, at that time, he was really focusing on mentoring a lot of Tagalog hip hop rappers in the community. And so all these young cats would be at the apartment all the time [laughs], recording in the kitchen. And it was really a lesson for me in Tagalog where I had to like try to learn as much as possible. For all these things to come together, I think are reflected in the song. This song, “ArtOfficial Freedom” is just a great representation of the album. And the title itself is just like a play on words. It spelled art official freedom, to mean that like through art, we can try to aim towards some sense of freedom, some, you know, towards the goal of freedom using art, but then a play of words of artificial freedom that what we are currently existing in and under is an artificial form of freedom. Through this, capitalistic, imperialistic, racist society [laughs]. So that's kind of the play on words, artificial freedom. That was a long time ago. That was like 10 years, no, 14 years ago that we dropped that album. It's great to, I'm glad you're bringing it back on the airwaves. And I just want to give a shout out to also Fatgums, who was the number three part of this record. Lives in LA and is also the CEO of Beatrock Music and Beatrock Art Collective but he was just also a big part of this record. So shout out to Fatgums. Aisa Villarosa: [00:49:25] Here is ArtOfficial Freedom from Mister REY and Power Struggle SONG Aisa Villarosa: [00:53:29] Nomi before we go, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listeners tonight? Nomi (Power Struggle): [00:53:34] When our people leave us in the physical world, there's so many ways that we can continue for them to live on and their legacy to live on, especially through art, and especially through the technologies that exist now. Like I said before, please, check out Mister REY's catalog on Bandcamp, it's just Mister REY, M-I-S-T-E-R R-E-Y and look up his music. He also has a project with MrRey and Aristyles called America is in the Dark. That's a beautiful EP. Please check those things out and promote and propagate them, share them with your friends, download them. It's great music. If I could also please plug, to support his family, Mister Rey leaves behind two twin girls and a young son of the age of nine and their mother. And so if you could please donate to the GoFundMe, if you just look up Reynaldo Novicio, his name will pop up, and any donation is greatly appreciated. Lastly, on March 15th Fifth Elements and Hummingbird Farm is going to be organizing a life celebration, for Mister REY, his creative life and his legacy. It's going to be at Hummingbird Farm, which is in the Excelsior District right by Crocker Park, behind the soccer fields. Check that out on March 15th, 4 to 8 pm. The program is still being crafted, but I guarantee it's going to be a really special time. I think there's going to be some films, there's going to be performances, music, and the space in general, Hummingbird Farm, is a really dope community space that is really people power driven. So please check those things out. And again, just really appreciate this time to share about Mister REY and our work together. Aisa Villarosa: [00:55:14] Thank you, Nomi. And Rey would talk about how the Guitar Center in SoMa was a hub for him early on, and he would just meet people, and you have called Rey a bridge builder. So thank you for being with us here tonight and paying it forward with love. Please check out our website kpfa.org to find out more about Larry The Musical, Mister REY, Power Struggle, and the guests we spoke to. We thank you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Aisa Villarosa, Anuj Vaidya, Ayame Keane-Lee, Cheryl Truong, Hien Nguyen, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Nate Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar, and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Aisa Villarosa and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night. Mga kababayan. Makibaka, huwag matakot. The post APEX Express – 3.14.24 – Living Legacies Larry the Musical appeared first on KPFA.