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This week’s episode is a Biden-free zone, so if you’re looking to avoid the Biden-Afghan collapse story, this is the show for you. Instead we decided to circle back return to an argument Steve was losing badly at the end of last week’s episode with Michael Anton, and go into greater depth on the meaning of equality in American political thought. To recap, Steve argued that the critics of “all men are created equal” in the Declaration of Independence—from Tocqueville to today’s “paleoconservatives”—have a point, at least historically considered, and that the simple and laudatory instinct of Americans that “you are not the boss of me” is insufficient and prone to the defects of cognitive dissonance. So Steve decided to enlist a witness on his behalf—the voice of Harry Jaffa himself. Using some excerpts from an audio recording of a lecture Jaffa gave in 1972 on “What Is Equality? The Declaration of Independence Revisited” (you can find the full audio recording here) Steve and Lucretia work through some of the complications of the idea of equality and especially its directly related principle—the “consent of the governed.” Bottom line: this matter is complicated. As Jaffa wrote elsewhere: “Free government would be an absurdity did it require citizens all like Abraham Lincoln; yet it would be an impossibility if it could not from time to time find leaders with something of his understanding.” The trouble is, our entire education system, from K-12 through college, is today now determined to convey only anti-democratic principles, in service of a totalitarian misunderstanding of equality. We have work to do. Maybe we just need to screen The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance more often. It’s how this episode opens. (P.S. The fine article “Why Are Elites So Hostile to Merit-Based Hiring” by our young friend Deion Kathawa that we mention at the end of the episode can be found here.)

In June 2021, the FDA revoked its Emergency Use Authorization for Filtering Facepiece Respirators.  Learn what an EUA is and how it affects the use of non-NIOSH approved N-95 respirator in healthcare.     Peter Koch: [00:00:04] Hello, listeners, and welcome to the MEMIC Safety Experts podcast, I'm your host, Peter Koch, and the topic today is revoked EUAs. Often I need to hear or read something a second time to understand what's going on. And it's not for lack of education or interest. It's just sometimes a sentence tries to do way too much with too few words or letters or using abbreviations to try to help with understanding. So try to wrap your brain around this. Early on in the sars-cov-2 pandemic, the FDA as a department of the DHHS, created the FRREUAs for HCP in conjunction with NIOSH and the CDC to help combat the spread of covid-19 now due to the increase in availability of NIOSH approved and n-95 FRRs, the FDA has revoked the FRREUA for [00:01:00] HCP. Got it. Yeah, I don't. I didn't either. Every one of those, TLAs adds meeting to the message. And a TLA is a three letter abbreviation, by the way, so that's way too many TLAs packed into two sentences to be functional and I expect that if it was in print you would have to read it again and maybe again and maybe google some of those to figure out what all the pieces are. But just listening, I expect it was almost as confusing as it was to read. And if I were to pull a number of us who heard that headline for the first time, everyone would have a different opinion on its meaning. And unfortunately, many times when I'm in the field talking with clients about new regulations or safety standards, there's often confusion and most often a different opinion on the meaning or applicability. And the FDA's recent revocation of the FRREUA is no exception. So to help clear the air on the [00:02:00] podcast with me today is Steve Badger, CSP, OHST and safety management consultant with MEMIC. Steve has more than 35 years of experience working in the paper, medical sterilization and construction industries. He's an authorized training instructor for the OSHA Training Institute in Manchester, New Hampshire, and is a member of the American Industrial Hygiene Association. Steve uses his experience in different industries and formal training in industrial hygiene practices and indoor air quality testing to help the companies he works with manage their respiratory protections, challenges and others today. Steve is going to help us shed some light on the recent FRREUA revocation. So, Steve, welcome back to the podcast. Steve Badger: [00:02:45] Thank you very much, Peter. Glad to be here. Peter Koch: [00:02:47] That's fantastic. It's been a little while since we've had a conversation here. So I was really happy to I actually read some information that you sent out about the revaccinated EUAs and [00:03:00] it sparked the conversation for us about what they are and why they got revoked. And I thought it would be an interesting conversation to have on the podcast and try to get the word out about some of this. So I'd like to start by jumping right in and define some of those TLAs or three letter abbreviation. Let's start right with an EUA. What isn't EUA in the first place and why are they issued? Steve Badger: [00:03:26] Sure. And an EUA stands for emergency use authorization is really a mechanism to facilitate the availability and the use of medical countermeasures such as vaccines and other medical equipment during public health emergencies. And you see this happen rarely they're not done frequently. But as it says in their own definitions, that the public health emergencies, we don't have a lot of them, but when we have them, we need to be able to use our resources and things that are available to try to help us get [00:04:00] beyond that. And obviously, the covid-19 pandemic has proved to be that in more than one area, including the vaccines, as well as the filtering Facebook's respirators. Now, under this particular EAU, the FDA meeting, the Food and Drug Administration is the one that issued this particular set of EUAs and they can do, as I mentioned earlier, medical products, vaccines to diagnose or treat or even prevent serious life threatening diseases and conditions when there's no approved or adequate available alternatives. In this case here, you know, we're talking about filtering face piece respirators. And as we know that has been a contentious issue from the beginning as to the availability of NIOSH approved respirators. Peter Koch: [00:04:52] Why don't we help people understand? Because there's lots of different terminology about respirators and some people just think a mask is [00:05:00] a respirator or a respirator is a mask. We see we see people in a doctor's office wearing a mask. We see people on a construction site wearing a mask. We see firefighters wearing a mask. So when we talk about an n-95 respirator, what are we talking about and what's the difference between, say that and like a half face respirator and maybe that surgical mask that you might find in your doctor's office? Steve Badger: [00:05:27] Great question. The really the difference comes down to what is doing the filtering and filtering face piece respirator. The ones that we're talking about here, the mask itself is the filter. It's filtering out everything that you're breathing in. The whole entire thing acts as a filter and you know it. The same with a surgical mask is designed to filter out throughout your whole breathing zone everything that's there as opposed to say, you know, elastomeric like a half face or a full face, negative pressure [00:06:00] respirator that is fit tested. They've got it. It's got a seal that has to seal. And then the ear that's getting to you is being filtered through actual filters, cartridges that are designed to filter out different types of contaminants. So there's a big difference between those and the filtering face piece in its function and its ability and its protective qualities. Because if you think about a filtering face piece, it's filtering in both directions, whereas the elastomeric respirators, the cartridges you're breathing in, when you exhale, you're breathing out through an exhalation valve that's not filtered. So this was one of the reasons why these this particular type of respirator wasn't the first and best choice when it came to the health care professionals, Peter Koch: [00:06:51] Because it's filtering the filtering face piece or like a paper mask. Respirator would filter both ways, both in the inhalation and the [00:07:00] exhalation, as I hear you correctly. Steve Badger: [00:07:02] Correct. Peter Koch: [00:07:02] Now, with the filtering face piece and especially the n-95 respirators, some of the similarities beyond the filtering on the inhalation, they do have to be fit tested, is that correct, the n-95 respirators? Steve Badger: [00:07:18] Yes, that is correct. They do have to be fit tested. And the initial people that are first using these things, it was absolutely mandated that everyone had to be fit tested before they could wear them and they had to get a medical approval before they could even do the fit testing to make sure that they were physically capable of wearing these respirators with the people that had already been fit tested. And maybe they've been beyond that year from the initial time that they had been tested. They were given a, I will say, a waiver, but an extension so that they did not have to get that additional fit test within that year, that they as long as they were using the same type and brand of filtering [00:08:00] face piece respirator, that they could extend that fit test beyond that year deadline. Peter Koch: [00:08:07] Oh, good. So that that actually took some pressure off the numbers of people that would have to be tested for an n-95 or one of the respirators that would have been covered under the EUA originally. Now what's the biggest difference between that filtering face piece and say like the surgical mask that you might see in the doctor's office or the dentist office? Steve Badger: [00:08:34] The largest difference really comes down to the pore size. And when we talk about pore size, we're talking about what is the maximum, you know, filtration of that particular respirator or in this case, surgical mask. Now, with the filtering face piece, we know that it will filter out 95 percent of the particles at a certain size and which is which is a very good filter, a very good filter, 95 percent, [00:09:00] as opposed to a surgical mask, which really doesn't have the small enough pores to prevent the viruses from actually getting through that. And they're not fitted as well so that people, if they don't have them appropriately put across their nose or across their face, there's still gaps in them that can allow the escape of the of the virus. Peter Koch: [00:09:24] Good. So that makes sense then why someone who would be required to say treat or come into contact with someone who might have covid-19 needing to wear that n-95 mask instead of just the surgical mask? But, you know, there again, that's the requirement, higher level of protection, especially when there's a significant exposure. And then for everyone else, when there's other options for us to go out there. That's why that cloth face mask or even a surgical type mask would be functional for someone of the public [00:10:00] who maybe isn't required to come into contact with someone who has covid-19, I remember early on masks, you couldn't find them, you couldn't find n-95 mask's anywhere. And I know just outside of the covid-19 pandemic, I mean, respirators are used in industry all the time for particulate respiratory protection, chemical respiratory protection. There's many reasons why you might use an a 95 respirator and you couldn't find them. You just couldn't find them anywhere. So I guess this is a good time to maybe talk a little bit about the history here and to get a better understanding of why the EUAs were issued in the first place. So we did talk about the FDA, the federal Food and Drug Administration, and they are in charge of approving medical products and vaccines for use, and especially when it comes to the medical industry themselves to be approved for [00:11:00] medical use. It's not just, say, NIOSH. Correct. So if I'm going to use a respirator, an approved respirator for medical use, NIOSH isn't the only organization that will approve that respirator for use, is that correct? That needs to be the FDA. Steve Badger: [00:11:17] Well, it is the NIOSH does the approval and how to look at this is that they do the testing, they do the approval. And then the FDA says, OK, based on the NIOSH testing and approval, we will accept these particular respirators. Peter Koch: [00:11:35] Gotcha, I think that's a that's a good point for qualification there. So NIOSH still doing the testing. And then the FDA is saying that these are the group of respirators that are going to be functional for a health care setting. Awesome. All right. So let's look more about the historical context. And if we all remember back to the start of the covid-19 pandemic, which seems like forever [00:12:00] ago, but it wasn't all that long ago, actually, that the virus was determined to be transmitted through the air and into the respiratory system via the droplets expelled when an infected person coughed, sneezed or they spoke. What wasn't really well understood then was how a mask could protect you and why someone in a health care settings should wear an approved n-95 mask and someone not in health care could wear a mask that wasn't approved. So let's talk a little bit about what an n-95 is and then what makes it approved and then we'll get into the timeline. So Steve, take us through what an n-95 respirator n-95 mask is and what makes it approved versus a mask that might not be approved. Steve Badger: [00:12:41] You know, certainly the n-95 respirator is exactly what it sounds. It's designed to filter out 95 percent of the particles within its range, what it's approved for. And so, you know, when we take a look at what's on the outside of the respirator [00:13:00] and what gets inside, it's designed to filter out 95 percent. And that approval process, as we mentioned earlier, is done by NIOSH, the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health. And they do a lot of testing on these respirators and they put them through their paces to make sure that they really are what the manufacturer tells us they are and that they're going to, you know, meet those standards. Now, to take that one step further, these n-95 respirators, which were, you know, being approved obviously very quickly, the supplies of these got used up. And so they started looking at these different alternatives as to, OK, maybe these aren't approved yet, but there are respirators out there that have been through other trials, through other organizations throughout the world that may be good enough to be able to provide some protection for the health care professionals. Peter Koch: [00:13:58] Oh, all right, I [00:14:00] think I understand so NIOSH is going to approve an n-95 respirator based on their testing and it has to meet a minimum qualification for the for filtering out 95 percent of a certain size particle or particles above a certain size. But there are other organizations I know Canada has their own organization and other countries have their own certification organizations for different types of personal protective equipment. So but it might not be the same testing method or it might not be they might not have the same standard possibly that NIOSH does so when the supply got short. Am I correct that businesses started to look for other supply chains that might not be approved by NIOSH? Am I correct in that? Steve Badger: [00:14:50] Absolutely, that is correct. They started looking outside of the U.S. because of the fact that the U.S. supplies fell [00:15:00] behind very quickly. And so they started looking at countries that everywhere from, you know, Vietnam to New Zealand to places Europe, Italy, that that had companies that were creating respirators that met their standard for it would be an n-95. But they had not yet approved them for use in the United States. Peter Koch: [00:15:24] Very good. So that that sets up kind of sets up a challenge. Right. So as your safety person at the hospital or OSHA or the FDA are going to say, these are the things that you have to use, the companies might not have enough of those things. So they go look someplace else, find other respirators that meet a certain standard, but not the NIOSH standard. So now there's a challenge there. There are companies that are trying to protect their workers, but there aren't enough of the NIOSH approved [00:16:00] n-95 filtering face pieces to go around. So the FDA takes the next step. And I'm expecting that's the emergency use authorization, correct? Steve Badger: [00:16:12] Correct. You know, any time that there is an emergency use authorization, there has to be some reasoning behind it. And for this case here, you know, they gave three main reasons as to why they wanted to implement this. And, you know, first of all, it was the sars-cov-2 virus that causes covid-19 causes serious life threatening disease. There was no question about that at this point, including severe respiratory illness. The second reason was that based on scientific evidence available to the FDA, that there was some benefit of using these filtering face piece respirators, even though they were not NIOSH approved. And third of all is that, you know, there just wasn't any other available alternatives. There was just nothing else out there that was in the pipeline that could possibly [00:17:00] take the place of that or help supplement that. So this is why the FDA decided that this was a good time to implement this particular EUA. Peter Koch: [00:17:13] That's great. And as I understand it, too, there were multiple or at least there were two EUAs that were issued. So talk to us about the first EUA that was issued and then we can talk about the second one. Steve Badger: [00:17:26] Sure. The first EUA was the imported NIOSH Non-NIOSH approved disposable filtering face piece respirators, and that one really covered respirators that were made outside of the United States everywhere but China. And we'll talk about a little bit about that in the second one as to why they separated those. But this particular one this first one was for every other country, the Italy, the Australia, the New Zealand that were making respirators that had not been previously [00:18:00] NIOSH approved. And within that EUA, they had what's called exhibit one. Exhibit one was the list of approved filtering face piece respirators that could be used by health care professionals under this EUA. Peter Koch: [00:18:17] Ok, so once that EUA was issued, they had a list of all the different respirators. So the health care community could go out and choose from that list. They couldn't find NIOSH approved filtering face pieces. They could then look at which ones were then being approved through the emergency use authorization. That's cool. So that list one was a pretty critical list for people to have get their hands on. And then I think it was still hard to find some of those. And then there was another EUA that was issued and you referenced that earlier. That was the one for respirators manufactured in China. So can you talk a little bit about that one? Steve Badger: [00:18:56] Yes. The first EUA approved about 50, [00:19:00] I believe it was 54 different types of respirators from different countries. And as we talked about the use and the need and far outweighed the number that were available. So the second EUA was issued in October of 2020, and that was for respirators that were constructed in the country of China. Now, that particular list was also quite extensive and they actually had about 200 approved respirators that went into Appendix A of that EUA that were approved from that point that the EUA was initiated. So now they've brought in the they had the rest of the world will say in the. First, the EUA and then China and their respirators were the second EUA. Peter Koch: [00:19:55] Right, and so through your reading, were you able to determine why they had a [00:20:00] separate EUA for the respirators made in China versus the ones that may have been made in the other parts of the world? Steve Badger: [00:20:07] There's been nothing that I've been able to find in the reading that would indicate why? You know, there's a lot of conjecture out there as far as, you know, thinking about the fact that, you know, early on they thought that maybe, you know, they wouldn't have to go to that extreme to get enough respirators available. But, yeah, there's definitely nothing in writing that I've been able to find that's indicated as why it was separate after the fact. You know, when we talk about here later on, but after the fact, it became obvious that there were a lot of knockoffs and a lot of, you know, fake respirators that were being sent in, ones that weren't nearly close to approval. And so, you know, after the fact, they started, you know, weeding out those pretty quickly when they started testing them. Peter Koch: [00:20:59] Yeah. [00:21:00] So I do remember some of that information coming through. There were a number of respirators that were packaged to represent themselves as being NIOSH approved or had the OSHA seal of approval, which isn't a thing. You know, she doesn't approve those. They just say you're supposed to wear a particular type of PPE. And then there were some testing information that was placed out there, too, about how the NIOSH respirators and respirators made in other parts of the world and even some of those in China did come it did come very close to meeting that NIOSH standard over the samples that they had. But there are others that didn't do it at all. And so part of the approval, as I see it, is how I've come to understand this as a safety professional is one of the reasons that you want in a third party testing and approving is because it provides you with some information about [00:22:00] the minimum amount of protection that you're going to get. So if you buy something that's going to have the stamp of approval on it, you should you should be able to feel comfortable that it will that it will protect you at this particular level. And so then if you take that protection level and then you look at what you're trying to be protected from, if they match up and you use it the way it's supposed to, you have managed the hazard or exposure to that hazard in a good way. But if it's not going to meet that base level of approval, then it may very well put you at greater risk if you're going to use something that that doesn't have that minimum level of protection. Peter Koch: [00:22:42] Let's take a quick break, integrating workplace safety into your business is a key part of the long term success of any company. And like most components of success, there is no one size fits all solution. MEMIC is committed to partnering with employers across all industries for workplace [00:23:00] safety. And we recognize the key to that partnership is understanding the unique demands of the industries that we ensure our safety experts bring experience from the industries that they serve. And this experience provides a unique perspective through a critical eye when it comes to understanding the particular exposures and challenges of an industry from construction, retail and manufacturing to hospitality and health care. Our team of experts will work with policyholders to identify opportunities to improve safety. Interested in finding more about MEMIC, check us out at MEMIC.com. Or better yet, contact your local independent insurance agent for more information. If you're already insured by MEMIC, then check out our safety resources at MEMIC.com/workplacesafety and sign up for access to our video lending library, our LMS platform or our Safety Director Resource Library. Now let's [00:24:00] get back to today's episode. Peter Koch: [00:24:04] I think as we as we start to look at the EUAs this, you know, the podcast is pretty short today. There is a pretty focused topic. There's not a ton that we need to go through. But we learned about what an EUA is, what the FRRs are, who does the approval process, who issued the emergency use authorization in the first place and why. Now, let's talk about the well, the title of the podcast is that they have been revoked or the EUAs have been revacated. So why were the EUAs revoked here? Why did the FAA pull the EUAs for those filtering face pieces? Steve Badger: [00:24:48] Yeah, looking at, you know, the beginning of this, where they were authorized, the EUAs were issued from that point on, we had a list for [00:25:00] the exhibit one and also for Appendix A for the second. And that list of respirators were really, you know, for lack of a better term, we're really unknowns. And so what NIOSH did was they started doing testing on these particular filtering face piece respirators to see if they met the n-95 standard that 95 percent filtration. And so the process that they would go through is they would take ten samples that were sent to them by the manufacturers. They would test them and come up with an average filtration. And so as they started going through and doing these testing, they found out early on that there were many that either didn't make it or that were very bad respirators that they could tell that they were bad, they tell that they were they were the fakes, that they were the fraudulent ones. And so what they did was they started [00:26:00] eliminating some of these from that list, from that approved list and a couple of different times during 2020, they took some of these out, started weeding them down to the ones that actually that they could say would filter out 95 percent. Now, it's important to note at this point that this did not give them a NIOSH approval. OK, what all this did was that NIOSH did this testing and that they were able to say that in this testing that it did reach that 95 percent. So none of these respirators were able to gain NIOSH approval numbers from this particular testing. So as time went on, the manufacturers that NIOSH had approved previously started catching up on the numbers of respirators that were being in demand as the pandemic, you know, slowly started coming down and the number of cases and the health care workers were able to better protect themselves with NIOSH respirators. [00:27:00] These lists, this Appendix A and exhibit one, they started becoming less and less important. And so in the end of June or actually towards the end of June, the FDA decided to revoke both of these EUAs, meaning that these respirators are no longer approved for use by health care professionals. Peter Koch: [00:27:25] And that's another interesting point to note, that the lists were kind of live. So the Appendix A. And the list one, as NIOSH started testing, they actually eliminated some of the respirators from those list. Is that correct? Did I hear that correctly? Steve Badger: [00:27:43] Yes, they did, they initially they eliminated from the second EUA, the ones from China there was about I want to say it was about 75 respirators that did not meet the first cut right out of the gate. And there was a there was several from [00:28:00] the first the UK from the European and other nations that were creating them. And so they were slowly, you know, they would get several of these on that list and they would eliminate them. And so they would, you know, say, OK, from this point on, from this date on, these are no longer part of this EUA and therefore the health care providers should not be using these. Peter Koch: [00:28:23] Yeah, and I think that's a good point, because if this ever does happen again and another EUA is issued for non-NIOSH approved filtering face pieces that. The purchasing groups for these health care organizations need to understand that, unfortunately, we can only work as fast as we can work and that those lists could be live. So are the lists will be live. And as more testing gets done, those lists might change. So it's important to go back to those lists on a regular basis, work with your suppliers to make sure that you have [00:29:00] you're working off the most accurate list and you're getting the equipment that's best suited for your for your workers. So we come to the end and the EUAs are revoked and what I'm hearing, Steve, is that you're saying because manufacturing picked up enough with the NIOSH approved n-95 respirators, that that there are enough now to go around to outfit the needs of our health care professionals. So that's really the reason why they were revoked, because there wasn't a need for emergency use anymore. We were able to use the approved respirators in most cases. Is that correct? Steve Badger: [00:29:43] Yes, it is correct and you know, and obviously there's a couple of reasons for that. I mean, one, we don't have the certainly have not had the number of cases that we had initially early on, you know, and also, you know, we have to think about respirators as they are. They're the last [00:30:00] line of defense. And so when we think about, you know, you know, hazards and controls that, you know, the controls that have been put into place have also helped eliminate a lot of these potential exposures to the point where maybe not as many respirators are needed to be used because they are that last line of defense. And therefore, you know, if something happens to them, the respirator fails, that person could still be exposed. So we want to try, you know, to eliminate those hazards initially before you get to that respirator point. Peter Koch: [00:30:32] Very good now. All right. So the EUAs are revoked the non NIOSH approved respirators are no longer approved for use in a health care setting. What do I do, I've got maybe a stockpile of respirators that were once approved by the EUA and they're no longer functional or at least no longer proved to be used in a health care setting. So does the FDA have [00:31:00] any recommendations going forward? Steve Badger: [00:31:03] Yes, they do. They have several recommendations for the stockpiles of these things that  they're assuming that are out there for the health care professionals. And just because these respirators are no longer a part of this EUA, doesn't mean that they can't be used for other purposes outside of the health care organizations that you could, you know, actually, you know, redistribute these through, you know, into non health care settings, such as, you know, construction or even general industry? You might be able to you know, they offer the suggestion that maybe you could donate them to other countries or other places where approved respirators are still in very short, you know, short quantities as they're very much in demand. They also, you know, tell us that we may even consider, you know, holding on to them to [00:32:00] be used for other purposes so that's where they've kind of left it with us, that we don't want to just, you know, we just don't want to throw these things away, that there are other uses for them. And I think that's very good advice. Peter Koch: [00:32:12] Yeah, I think it's great advice as well. So just because you have a resource, make sure you're using the resource appropriately just for that health care setting of if I'm a health care professional and I'm going to be exposed to someone who potentially has covid-19, I want to make sure I'm protected. So you want to make sure you're using that NIOSH respirator. And since you should be able to have sourced enough of those for the exposure potential that that is out there now. But like you said at the end, there again, it's a good idea. As we you know, we look at where we are currently and there's starting to be an uptick in cases, an uptick with the Delta variant and maybe some other variants that are coming down the road. It's [00:33:00] always good to be prepared. So we don't want to be in a place again where we're scrambling to find respirators. We want to make sure that we have things in stock. So, you know, good advice, use it or do with those stockpiled respirators, what you, as your company feels is going to be the best use for them. And if that is a donation grade, if that's moving them to a different industry, fine, too. If that is holding on to them just in case, that's not a bad idea either. So, Steve, why don't we try? So we learned a lot today in a very short time. And I think most of it is kind of clearing up some of those three letter abbreviations like EUA and FRR and even some larger abbreviations like NIOSH or CDC. So why don't we take that sentence those two sentences we had in the intro and let's try to add the actual words that come up and see if it makes any more sense to us. So here we go. Early [00:34:00] on in the sars-cov-2 or Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus two pandemic the Food and Drug Administration as a Department of the Department of Health and Human Services created the filtering face piece respirator emergency use authorization for health care providers. They did this in conjunction with the National Institute for Occupational safety and Health, or NIOSH and the Centers for Disease Control, or CDC, to help combat the spread of covid-19. Now, due to the increase in availability of the NIOSH approved n-95 filtering face piece respirators, the Food and Drug Administration has revoked the filtering face piece respirator emergency use authorization for health care providers. Makes a little more sense. Still a mouthful to say, but there seems to make more sense to that. So I [00:35:00] guess at the end here, Steve, as you were going through the emergency use authorization, the process and how they were revoked, is there anything else that you want to add to that or maybe something that you found really interesting as you were going through that? Steve Badger: [00:35:17] Yeah, you know, I would say that I probably one of them the most interesting things that I found going through this was, you know, the ability of the government organizations to be able to work together to get to that point where these EUAs were being issued. Because, you know, it wasn't just the FDA. They had to rely on the NIOSH group for their testing and approval. And, you know, and that all, you know, in conjunction with the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, that they had to all work together to make this work. And I think that that's the part that really drove home to me. The point that, you know, when we're in a crisis and these things happen, that these people can work together, that they can, you [00:36:00] know, do you know the right thing and get these things out to people and in a big hurry. I mean, this was these are not something that typically happens overnight. And in this case, here it did. These were given this temporary approval and this emergency approval. And so they were they were able to help that health care professionals out of a very tough position. Peter Koch: [00:36:26] Yeah, I think that's a really good point. The working across departments at the federal level can be challenging at times. And they definitely collaborated well together and came up with a with good response for a very, very challenging situation for sure. So, Steve, if someone had more questions about the FDA or and or the emergency use authorizations, something happens in the future. They see something over the Internet that there was a new EUA or they want to learn more about these [00:37:00] EUAs in particular, where would they go for more information? Steve Badger: [00:37:05] Certainly the Food and Drug Administration, the FDA has a website that you can go on and, you know, you can look and search for EUAs under that website and it will bring up all of them. And they're, quite frankly, right now there's quite a few of them out there for different types of medical processes and procedures. And also the vaccines, the very vaccines that we're taking to prevent covid fall under these EUAs. So you kind of have to do a little bit of searching through there. And the other place that I would look in regards to the filtering face piece respirators is whether or not the respirator that you've chosen that you have in your hand, is it NIOSH approved or not? Easy enough to go on to the NIOSH website and actually determine that you can do a search and look to see which respirators are really approved? You know, it's not just stamped [00:38:00] on the box from, you know, someplace, you know, out of nowhere that you can actually make sure that that thing is actually what it says that it is so that you're getting that protection factor that you're expecting. Peter Koch: [00:38:12] That's a great point. And to not all, you know, don't always trust the packaging. So if you're looking to purchase n-95 respirators, a  good idea is to double check them against the list there for the NIOSH approved respirators. And you'd find that you said right on the NIOSH site or is that the FDA site, Steve? Steve Badger: [00:38:33] You would find it on the NIOSH site for which respirators are approved and they will be given approval number. And you can determine that, you know, from that list is whether or not that one you have in your hand, if it's NIOSH approved, it's going to have a number associated with it that matches up with that NIOSH site. Peter Koch: [00:38:53] Very good. And most of your reputable distributors are going to be familiar with that and be able to help [00:39:00] you if you're purchasing PPE for your organization, whether your health care or not, they should be able to work with you and then know what's approved and what's not approved. And if you ask them questions, is it on it? What's the number they should be able to give you that. So if you're wanting to double check, you can always ask those questions of your supplier. All right. Very good. Steve, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your expertise with us today. Steve Badger: [00:39:27] You're very welcome, Peter. Thank you for having me. Peter Koch: [00:39:29] Excellent. We'll have to bring you on again and talk some more about respirators. I, I know we've been chatting back and forth about a podcast, around respiratory Protection, and it's a pretty enormous topic. And we've got to kind of whittle it down so we can fit it in within our podcast format here. So we'll have you back on again. And I'm looking forward to speaking with you. Steve Badger: [00:39:50] Thank you. Peter Koch: [00:39:50] Perfect. So thanks again for joining us. And to all of our listeners out there today on the MEMIC Safety Experts podcast, we've been speaking with Steve Badger, safety management [00:40:00] consultant, with a MEMIC about the Food and Drug Administration's revoked emergency use authorizations for filtering face piece respirators. If you have any questions or would like to hear more about a particular topic on our podcast, e-mail me at podcast@MEMIC.com. Also, check out our show notes at MEMIC.com/podcast, where you can find additional resources and our entire podcast archive. Did you know we've had more than 50 episodes so far and we're still going strong and hope to do another 50. And while you're there on the website, sign up for our safety net blog so you never miss any of our articles or safety news updates. And if you haven't done so, I'd appreciate it if you took a minute or two to review us on Stitcher, iTunes or whichever podcast service that you found us on. And if you've already done that, thanks, because it really helps us spread the word. Please consider sharing this show with a business associate friend or family member who you think will get something out of [00:41:00] it. And as always, thank you for the continued support. And until next time, this is Peter Koch reminding you that listening to the MEMIC Safety Experts podcast is good, but using what you learned here is even better.  

Exclusive interview with SRAM's Chris Mandell discussing the new XPLR line of product for gravel.  We dig into the SRAM XPLR components, the RockShox REVERB AXS wireless dropper post and finally RockShox's new gravel suspension fork, Rudy. Support the podcast Join The Ridership Full automated transcript (please excuse the typos): SRAM - Chris Mandell   [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Craig Dalton. Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host, Craig Dalton. [00:00:08] We've got a big show for you this week. So I'm going to keep the intro short. I'm welcoming Chris Mandel from SRAM [00:00:14] To the show to talk about the new explore series just launched today, August.  [00:00:19] This is really three shows in one, as we talk about grupos dropper posts. And suspension forks. [00:00:25] I'm super excited to dive into this conversation. I've been testing the products a few weeks down here in Topanga, California. And really excited to bounce my ideas off of Chris.  [00:00:36] And get his insights about the new XPLR line.  [00:00:39] So with that, let's dive right in.  [00:00:41] Chris, welcome to the show.  [00:00:43] Chris Mandell: Thanks for having me. I'm real excited to be here.  [00:00:45] Craig Dalton: This is a conversation that I feel is eight or nine months in the works.  [00:00:49] Chris Mandell: Yeah, for sure. That's that's generally how these things go, your word developing and working on products for quite a long time before they actually make it out into the world. [00:00:59] Craig Dalton: So yeah, I'm really excited for this discussion and I'm super stoked that this is on the day of the big launch. So if you're listening on August 10th, which is when this podcast is first released, SRAM has got some things to talk about today. But before we get into that, I always like to get a little bit of information about you as a rider where you're living and how'd you get into the sport. [00:01:22] Chris Mandell: Yeah. Thanks for that. I've been a passionate cyclist for a really long time, my dad did a bit of road racing back in the day and we always had bikes around. Yeah. But I got distracted with American football in high school, and then ended up going to college to play American football and found really quickly in college that I did not want to keep playing at that level. [00:01:44] And so I stopped that and was really lucky in that the town that I lived in McMinnville, Oregon had a small but strong mountain bike scene. And the people there took me under their wing and I started mountain biking with them. And then eventually started working at the local bike shop Tony's and just fully embraced it and was obsessed with it. [00:02:02] And then after I graduated from college, I got a job working full speed ahead, which took me up to Seattle which was great. Cause there was ton of really good cross country riding outside of Seattle, but there was also. A lot of like free side and downhill riding. So at that point I branched and was, writing a commuter to, and from work riding and racing cross country, race bikes, and then also going up to the Whistler bike park and riding that as much as possible kind of fast-forward became a product manager at Kona bikes and developed full suspension bikes at cone bikes for a long time. [00:02:38] And then eventually made the jump to become the rear shock product manager at RockShox. Which had me moved from Bellingham where I was working for Kona, Bellingham, Washington to Colorado Springs, Colorado, and had a great four and a half years living in Colorado Springs, Colorado being really detailed, focused on full suspension, mountain bikes and what it takes to. [00:03:02] Tune shocks and developed shocks for OEM customers like specialized or Santa Cruz. And then at a certain point, unfortunately, due to some family reasons my wife and I needed to move back to Bellingham to be closer to her family. And so we, when we made that shift I switched over from working in product development, to working on the PR side of things, which is what has me on the phone with you. [00:03:25] But in this, in a similar timeframe, we also, I, had a child and I was getting a little bit older and I'd always like commuted and like dabbled in, in rode bikes a little bit, but I'd never really rode bikes. Never really grabbed a hold of me, but gravel bikes started to grab a hold of me. [00:03:42] And it was about that time about when I had, when we had our child that I got a gravel bike and really started riding one pretty consistently. Fell in love with a lot of what, the early days of cross country riding, where for me, which was exploring your local area and like finding the different nooks and crannies and gravel roads and going to the places that you hadn't been to before. [00:04:07] But also really being able to like physically push myself, on, on a mountain bike on one hour mountain bike ride, you go up and then you come down, but on a one-hour gravel ride, you're basically peddling your brains off the entire time. So like the fitness side of that was really helpful for me. [00:04:22] In addition to connecting with the original spirit of what caught me in the cross country, mountain biking back in the day. So yeah, and so now living in Bellingham and I started that gravel journey in Colorado. Which is a really excellent place for gravel riding, but now living in Bellingham, Washington, which we're obviously very well known for our mountain bike trails and the mountain bike trail network is super expansive between, Galbreath mountain, which is the hill with a lot of mountain bike specific built trails, right in town. [00:04:52] And then the Chuck nuts, which is a little bit south of town, which is more hiking trails with some bikes specific trails, but a much bigger, longer area. But there's actually quite a bit of graveling to do here. This area I'm actually mountain bike got started here in, in logging terrain. [00:05:07] It's all working for us in this part of the country. And in order to have a working forest you have to have fire roads. And so there's just fireworks roads running in every possible direction. And then a lot of those thyroids have single track connections to them. So you can really get out and go quite far on your gravel bike from your door and have some pretty, pretty amazing adventures and get to be able to see some pretty big mountains. [00:05:31] Craig Dalton: Amazing. What do the climbs look like in your neck of the woods? Are they long hour long climbs? Are they short and punchy stuff?  [00:05:39] Chris Mandell: Yeah, it really depends what really depends what you want. There's definitely like hours long, slow grinding climbs, and then much to my friends. [00:05:48] Dislike. One of my favorite climbs around here is this climate called pine the theater. And it's basically just straight up the hill for about 25 minutes. And you're pretty much searching for traction on your gravel bike the whole time. Cause it's the climb. So Steve, so yeah, it's all of that. [00:06:03] It's long slow slogging fire roads, and then there's also just straight up the hill hiking or single track climbs.  [00:06:10] Craig Dalton: Nice. It sounds like a great place for gravel riding. Cause it sounds like you can pick and choose whether you want just a logging road that doesn't have a lot of technical requirements, but you can also push your limits on the single track and mountain bike style trails. [00:06:23] Chris Mandell: Yep. Yeah, that's exactly. I think that's exactly the case, like from my house is about 12 minutes to Galbreath on a rails to trails, an old railroad grade that they've converted to an inner urban trail. So I can take that over to golf. Which is crisscrossed with fire roads and then single track. [00:06:42] And so I'll generally climb up single track and then descend down the fire road on my gravel bike, because, my perspective is a lot of the times like it's capable as a gravel bike is do do having my mountain bike on the single track a lot of the time, but it's like a great in terms of options and my friend. [00:06:58] And I'll always joke. Cause we can, you could look down at the dirt here cause we get quite a bit of moisture in a normal time and you can see how many people are starting to gravel bike on the hill because you can tell the gravel bike tires.  [00:07:11] Craig Dalton: That's amazing. Yeah. I love that. I If you're in the fortunate position of having both the gravel and a mountain bike and live in a place where you can take all these different, make all these different choices, it's so much fun. [00:07:22] Cause you just pick and choose your own adventure. I could go on and on talking and learning about Bellingham, because it's an area that I've heard a great things about, but we've got so much ground to cover with Schram's announcement today about the Explorer series. And I'd love to get into it. [00:07:38] I think we'd look at the componentry first and the wheels, and then we get into the hotly debated stuff that we'll talk about later.  [00:07:46] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I I think the round out the gravel side of things, the last thing I'd add there is I think the other thing that's nice about having a gravel bike and a mountain bike is you can get so much more out of your mountain bike if you spend time on your gravel bike, because your fitness just goes through the roof. [00:08:02] And that's one of the things that's been, I've been loving about having a gravel bike alongside the mountain bike.  [00:08:07] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And I also imagined, from, if I go back to my origin story and mountain biking, riding orig rigid bike, there's a certain skill level you acquire by learning how to pick your lines when you're riding a rigid. [00:08:19] Or a lightly suspended bike as it were versus when you jump on a full suspension bike, you can start off being pretty sloppy.  [00:08:27] Chris Mandell: Yep. For sure.  [00:08:28] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So let's talk about explore.  [00:08:32] Chris Mandell: Yeah. So this is pretty exciting moment for us. It's really three, three of our big brands coming together. [00:08:40] In a way that we think is really going to allow the gravel rider to have more complete experiences on their bikes. So from the Zipp side we're bringing a gravel specific wheelset from the SRAM road side of things. We're bringing a gravel specific drive train, and then most new to the market would be on the RockShox side of thing. [00:09:06] We're going to bring a fork and a seat post that are gravel specific into the market. And I think it's really cool that these three brands were able to come together and make this specific explore products collection. But I do think it's also important to note that we still think our entire product line is totally relevant in the gravel sphere. [00:09:29] So we have this specific collection of products that we designed for gravel use, but we have a ton of other products that will end up on gravel bikes. And we don't think that those parts shouldn't end up on gravel bikes. It's just, these are the ones that we've specifically designed for.  [00:09:45] gravel  [00:09:47] Craig Dalton: Interesting. [00:09:48] I'm sure there's someone who immediately heard the word suspension on gravel bike and is already hitting the internet to start a debate. We won't get into that listener. Don't worry. I'm super excited. I've been riding the fork and I have my opinions on, it's a super excited to talk to Chris further about it, but Chris, why don't we start off with that? [00:10:06] We'll set.  [00:10:08] Chris Mandell: Yeah. This has been in the gravel market for quite some time with the product line that we offer today, specifically the 303 S and the 303 Firecrest both of which are excellent products for gravel riders to use like their light. The internal width are appropriate for a larger size tire. [00:10:30] And they provide a good balance of aerodynamics. However, we recognize that there's like a full spectrum. Travel experiences out there. And there are people who are going to push the limit a little bit more on the aggressive riding side of things. And for those riders, they're looking for a different setup in terms of, like balancing comfort and control on the trail with aerodynamics. [00:10:58] And so that really pointed us to what we're already doing with zip on the mountain bike side of things, where we have the zero three Moto rim, which is a single wall, not Mike Ram that was designed to allow the rim to have what we call ankle compliance. So the rim is able to work with the tire to provide the rider with more control and conform to the ground better. [00:11:26] As we have that have had that wheel in the mountain bike side of things for a long time, we have a lot of customers and a lot of interest in like bringing something like that over into the gravel side of things. And so that's what we're doing with with the 1 0 1 wheel set and really what it gives the rider is the ability to have a wheel set. [00:11:44] That's going to decrease their fatigue when they're out riding because the rim is gonna work the terrain with the tire in a way that allows the rider to keep the bike going in the direction they're going to want and isolate the rider from a lot of the vibrations and other like hits to the rider that are to the overall bike system that would create fatigue. [00:12:06] Craig Dalton: So is there some sort of suppleness built into the rim? Is that what you're saying?  [00:12:11] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. So the way that the rim system is able to work is that the spokes are run through the center of the room. And because it's not a box section, then it's a single wall run. The rim is able to use what we call ankle compliance. [00:12:27] So when it sees a hit say on the left side of the rim is able to move up and out of the way a little bit and allow the front axle and the whole bike to continue to carry forward, but give a little bit in a way that provides more comfort and more control and becomes less fatiguing to the right. [00:12:46] Craig Dalton: Gotcha. And that 27 millimeter wide internal profile is that wider than the 3 0 3.  [00:12:54] Chris Mandell: Yeah. We've actually got like really nice steps from the 300, three S all the way up to the one-on-one. So the 303 is 23 millimeter. The 303 Firecrest is 25 and then the one-on-one is 27 inner. And really that's just optimizing for those different sizes of tires that you're going to have on there. [00:13:15] You're able to use quite a small tire on the one-on-one. But it's also going to give you a lot of good stability on the larger side tire.  [00:13:23] Craig Dalton: Yeah. We've had a discussion about that on the podcast before, and it seems like this trend towards that 27 millimeter is really beneficial for the gravel rider in terms of the contact patch of the tire and just how the overall rim performs. [00:13:38] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. And I I think it's, it's preference in tires and it's there's so many factors that go into what tire pressure you run with tires you run and all that stuff. And I think, having options is good in that space. And we really look at like the one-on-one. [00:13:53] If you're looking to take on more challenging terrain, if you're going to be spending long, long periods of time in the saddle over, not so great conditioned paved roads or rough gravel roads that extended period of time, but one-on-one is really going to bring a lot to you because it's going to save a lot of energy and it's going to, it's going to stop the vibrations and all the things that fatigue you on a gravel ride from getting up to you. [00:14:21] Craig Dalton: Nice. And for the listener, I'll just note that it's available in 700 C and six 50 B.  [00:14:27] Chris Mandell: Yep. Yeah.  [00:14:29] Craig Dalton: Did you want to talk about the G 40 exploratory?  [00:14:33] Chris Mandell: Yeah. Yeah, we can mention that one real quick. So the G 40 is a tire that we've offered for a while now, but we are rebranding it explored to fit into the rest of the collection. [00:14:45] And it's a pretty sweet tire. It's sitting right there in the middle at 40, which is I think a very common tire size for people to be using. It's got a nice center line rolling tread, which is really great for efficiency, but then it's got good, not too aggressive, but just aggressive enough cornering logs. [00:15:04] So you've got the grip in terms or when the ground gets soft, you're still able to dig into those cornering lugs and hold align really well. And then the thing that as a mountain biker I really appreciate it is it does have a robust sidewall, so you're not looking at getting getting flat tires that often. [00:15:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Nice. Let's move on to the driver.  [00:15:26] Chris Mandell: Yeah.  [00:15:28] Craig Dalton: So tell us about that. XPLR, drivetrain, and how it fits in you gave a little bit in your opening about it, but just contextualize it a little bit further and talk some of the details about what you guys are providing.  [00:15:40] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. I think if we look at where we're at with drive trains today, we offer a 10 36 1 by drive train, and we offer and through the access ecosystem, we're able to take our road hoods and connect them to a 10 50 mountain bike drive, train to provide, two pretty good experiences for the gravel rider. [00:16:05] The one by gravel rider looking to have either, very lightweight set up with the 10 36 and tight gearing stuff. Or with the 10 50, bigger gear steps, but a huge range which is greatly beneficial when you're like waiting the bike down or living in a place where there's really steep climbs. [00:16:22] And you're looking to just go straight up the hill, but for sure, we recognize that there's space in the middle of it. And for us, the one by experience is really what makes it makes the most sense on a gravel bike, where you're just looking to keep things clean and simple and straightforward. [00:16:40] Maybe he's got a dropper posts on your bag too. That's a whole lot of thing, different systems that you're managing on the bike and for the gravel rider, the one bike is a really good solution a week, but we saw that gap in between the 10 36 and the 10 15. We knew that there were writers who spend time in the mountains and need range, but also spent a lot of time on the tarmac and the tight gear steps. [00:17:04] And that's what brought us to this. 10 44 cassette and as well as a derailer that goes along with it and allows you to have a one by specific trailer, which will shift that 10 44. And we're offering that trailer hat red force as well as rival. So you can get in all three of those access price points and really be able to complete your experience from pavement to growl. [00:17:31] Craig Dalton: Gotcha. So these ones with the explore moniker on it are exclusively one by correct. They  [00:17:38] Chris Mandell: are exclusively one by, and a good way to think about that is when you're developing a derailer, you've got to optimize it for the cassette that it's running across. And then like how much chain it needs to take up. [00:17:50] So when you have a front derailleur system, you've got to think about the chainring moving between two pretty big sizes. So we changed the way we developed the cage and where we placed the pulleys. So it helps us provide a better shifting product and a lighter weight product. If we are able to divide those up a little bit. [00:18:08] So for this derailleur, we did end up making it one by specific, and we specifically built it to work with a 10 44 cassette, but it does also shift a 10 36  [00:18:18] Craig Dalton: cassettes. Gotcha. And for clarity, you mentioned this before SRAM's other group PO's are mix and match compatible. So for my friends like Jason at the Gravel Cyclist who rides to buy all the time, you've got a two by setup. [00:18:35] That's totally suitable for the gravel market.  [00:18:38] Chris Mandell: Yep, exactly. Yeah. And if that rider wanted to switch to one by specific setup or maybe like dabble in it. Yeah. You could take those same controllers and you could add one by rear derailleur to them and they would work just fine. It would just be a matter of repairing it to the new derailleur. [00:18:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's been interesting. The demo bike that you provided to me, which is a canyon Grizl, we've set up with a mullet setup. And while I've been on SRAM on my personal bike for many years, this was the first access bike that I've had for a prolonged period of time. So it was fascinating to play around with the app pair, the different things that were on the bike in the app, and just understand that system a little bit more. [00:19:24] Chris Mandell: Yeah. And it seemed like it was pretty straight forward and working pretty easily for you. And that's really what we're going for with this, like we want to make this as user-friendly and. It just things like the shift log logic, like it's very easy for you to understand in your brain. [00:19:39] Oh, I pushed the left shifter to get the chain to move left forward on the cassette. And I pushed the right shifter to get it to move right on that cassette and all those little details and all that little, like ease of use stuff adds up to a better experience for everyone in the channel, from the person who's ending up riding the bike to the bike shop and setting it up. [00:19:59] Craig Dalton: Yeah, for sure. And the fact that, and we'll get into the dropper post later, but the fact that the dropper post and the rear derailleur are using the same battery just gives you that comfort. Should you ever get caught out of pocket? You can swap the battery around and give power to the rear derailleur and take it away from your dropper posts, for example. [00:20:17] Chris Mandell: Yep. Yeah. And that's a perfect example. I actually, probably because I was driving around with my bike on my car the other day I had to do that exact thing and it was totally fine. Took two seconds and I was back out on my bike and riding again. And to, like the batteries are real small. [00:20:33] And so you can actually just get an extra one and throw it in your pocket.  [00:20:36] Craig Dalton: The other fun thing you told me, that was a mixed sense, but I didn't realize it right off the bat was that there's a mini accelerometer in all the componentry, so that it wakes up essentially when it's, when you're moving and goes to sleep if it's in your garage. [00:20:54] Chris Mandell: Yeah, exactly. So the way all the access systems work is they add little, as you mentioned, little accelerometer in them and to save power they go to sleep, but they're like checking in and. When you grab your bike and, move it out of the stand or wherever you have it set, those components are able to wake up and immediately respond to whatever you're trying to get them to do. [00:21:15] And that allows us to save a lot of battery life so that you're not wasting battery when the bike is just sitting in the garage, but also allows us to immediately respond to your needs as a rider.  [00:21:24] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And the additional pro tip you shared with me is if you've got it on the back or top of your car, take the battery out, put the little safe plastic piece in there. [00:21:33] So it doesn't think it's awake for your six hour drive to a ride.  [00:21:37] Chris Mandell: Yep. Yeah, definitely take that step.  [00:21:41] Craig Dalton: You mentioned. The sort of mixed compatibility of explore group a with everything else. And I definitely appreciate it as running the mullet setups and having some components from the mountain bike side of your lineup, everything visually works together. [00:21:56] There's no standing out of the explore versus the mountain bike side of things.  [00:22:02] Chris Mandell: Yeah. So we definitely feel like the full suite of products that we offer should all be able to come together and work cross-functionally as much as they can. And one thing you'll notice on all of the explore products is the explore. [00:22:18] Call-out is pretty small and pretty subtle. And I think your bike is a good example of that is a gravel bike. It doesn't feature the 10 44 cassette. For you attend 50 was a better solution, but you could actually have a 10 44 set up for that bike and very easily just remove the cassette and the derailer and the chain, and then add a 10 44 set up to it with the trailer and the chain and the cassette, and then repair your shifters and go out and ride that 10 44 setup. [00:22:51] Craig Dalton: What's the difference between the chains in those two setups?  [00:22:56] Chris Mandell: So the Explorer 10 44 drive trains use the flat top chain that we have on the roadside. And then the mullet drive train that you're using the 10 50 and the Eagle rear derailer use a standard 12 speed.  [00:23:10] Craig Dalton: Gotcha. And not to get too much in the weeds, but I was curious about this the way SRAM's, what are referred to as a magic link works to put the chain together. [00:23:19] Is it true that you can pretty easily pop those off and take the chain out?  [00:23:25] Chris Mandell: Yeah. So you can pop those off and take the chain out. The one thing to keep in mind with that is we don't recommend that you reuse that quickly. And the reason we don't is if it's a press fit and that's what holds it together. [00:23:36] And when you break that link, you will, you do wear that pressed it up a little bit. So we don't recommend that you reuse that quick link, but it is like a really easy way to be able to take your drive, train apart without making your change shorter or anything like that. And in fact, park tool and a few other tool manufacturers actually make a tool that's specifically designed to, install the quick link, but also on installed the quick. [00:24:01] Craig Dalton: Ooh, I might have to take a look at those I, one of the things that tripped me out, I was on a trip with some of the guys from VeloNews and saw that one of them was riding access and in his bike bag, he had taken the chain off and just remove the derailer. And it was just, he, in fact, he traveled with the derailer in a separate bag, which was just a trip to me when he pulled it out of the box and was putting back all together. [00:24:24] And it's just such a handy, protective way of transporting the bike.  [00:24:30] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. I do the exact same thing when I travel, just because, even with a mountain bike, flying with a mountain bike that derailleurs like in a vulnerable place and those bike bags, and it's not supported by the rest of the system. [00:24:42] And I actually do the same thing and take it off the ticket off the bike. And, I'm able to put it in inside of a bag somewhere else inside of my bike bag, which is a great way to.  [00:24:53] Craig Dalton: Yeah let's get let's shift gears and let's start boiling some of the listeners blood by talking about dropper posts and suspension. [00:25:01] Let's start with the dropper posts.  [00:25:04] Chris Mandell: One, one not to jump ahead to our not to pull us back. But one thing I do want to mention really quickly is we will we, in addition to the 10 44 cassette and the 10 44 specific red forest and rivalry trailers that we'll offer for, with XPLR we will also offer a one by specific cranks. [00:25:26] So same crank arms at the red enforce and rival level, but it has a new lighter weight single ring, and it's available on 38 through 46 sizes. So yeah, just quick touch that  [00:25:37] Craig Dalton: way, jumping in the suspension. Yeah. So let's talk about the access reverb dropper seat. [00:25:47] Yeah, so draw, look, this is no surprise to anybody who listens to this podcast. I am pro dropper all the time for almost every situation.  [00:25:59] Chris Mandell: And what do you feel the dropper gives you when you're out riding your bike  [00:26:07] Craig Dalton: when I'm descending and this descending is not just oh, I know I'm going to be bombing downhill for 25 minutes. [00:26:13] It's basically anytime I'm going downhill, being able to lower the saddle ever so slightly and create a greater area of space in my, underneath my undercarriage between my undercarriage and the saddle enables me to corner with greater confidence. Pretty much do everything with greater confidence.  [00:26:35] Chris Mandell: Yeah. [00:26:36] Yeah. And that's the same. That we would, when we would speak to what you get out of a dropper post on the mountain bike side of things it's the same situation because you're able to move wherever you need to move from the front of the bike, to the back of the bike without being obstructed by your seat post or your saddle rather lends a huge amount of control to you because you can waste the front tire as you need to, you can weight the rear tire as you need to without worrying about catching yourself on the satellite as you're making those motions. [00:27:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And I like, go ahead, Chris,  [00:27:14] Chris Mandell: you got it.  [00:27:15] Craig Dalton: When when I talk about using the dropper post, I'm talking about it in not the extreme mountain biking style stuff exclusively. I use it all the time. So descending on the road, like I think the advantages are there. When you do get into the hectic stuff and a local rider here in Southern California tipped me off to this trail called horse drop, which I finally hit the other day. [00:27:39] And as the name would dictate, there was a bunch of drop-offs. It was truly a hectic trail for a gravel bike, but a ton of fun. And there's no way, I shouldn't say there's no way it would be super challenging to do those drops with your saddle fully extended and even using the 50 millimeter drop AXS. [00:27:59] REVERB I had, it was plenty of space to get the bike underneath me and allow it to come up to me as I was handling those drop-offs.  [00:28:10] Chris Mandell: Yeah, that makes total sense to me. And I think circling back to even in less extreme terrain, it still makes a huge difference. Like you imagine hitting the apex of a road corner. [00:28:23] You're going to want to be in a different position on your bike versus the way you entered the corner. You have to move your center of gravity and your body weight around to get the bike, to track well through a corner. And like any flat corner on a gravel bike where you're trying to use a little bit of subtle body English to move the bike through the turn. [00:28:45] If you have to, all of a sudden, move from the front of the bike, to the back of the bike and then raise your center of gravity up to move your body up and over your saddle, that's going to disrupt your grip on the ground. And I think it's one of the advantages of having a dropper  [00:29:00] Craig Dalton: posts. [00:29:01] Yeah, a hundred percent. I think in my mind, it's the number one upgrade in terms of how it will affect your performance on the bike that anybody can do. So this post, obviously rock shock has been making. Dropper posts for the mountain bike sizes for a long time and has a full range there. This REVERB AXS XPLR is in the 27 2 millimeter diameter. [00:29:24] It comes in 400 millimeter lens as well as three 50, the three 50 has a 50 millimeter drop. And I think the 400 has a 75 millimeter drop that. All correct, Chris?  [00:29:35] Chris Mandell: Yeah. The 400 is actually available also in the 50 millimeter drop. So you can get the 400 either in 75 or 15.  [00:29:43] Craig Dalton: Gotcha. And how did you guys decide on those length drops as being what you want it to be? [00:29:49] Chris Mandell: Yeah, that, that really came from riding these types of bikes around and thinking about how much they needed and then listening to rider feedback on how much they thought they needed. So it really was those two sides of us doing our own work internally. And then listening to rider feedback on it. [00:30:12] And I think too, before we already get too close to the tech side of things and, I think we just had a really great conversation on the advantage of a C post. I can go from top out to bottom out. When we were looking at the gravel market and thinking about what we needed to bring to the table, we did not think it was enough just to make a post that dropped, like for sure that was going to be an advantage for the gravel rider. [00:30:37] But we recognized that it was a different use case and we needed to bring more to the table to get a gravel rider, to understand the benefit of having a dropper post and want them to take that leap. And so one of the things that we did with is we actually Came up with a new internal design which allows us to have what we call active ride for anywhere from top out to when the seat post achieves full travel. [00:31:06] So that means like if you move the seat post and a millimeter, the seat post is giving you what we call active ride, which is a bit of compliance in the post so that the rider is able to stay seated through rough terrain and continue paddling without having to stand up and get their butt off the saddle. [00:31:26] So at full top out the post is rock solid, but anywhere after full top out the C post features active ride. And that is one of the things that we see as a huge advantage to a gravel rider. Who's going to spend a ton of time paddling across rough terrain, needing to stay on the gas and needing their butts to stay on. [00:31:49] Yeah,  [00:31:49] Craig Dalton: that's super thoughtful element of the design. If you think about riding across stutter bumps or anything where you're going to be needing to peddle being on the saddle, just being able to take it down a millimeter, which is likely what you'd like. Anyway, you get some advantage out of having a little bit more space there to have that sort of suppleness built in is gotta pay dividends over longer rides. [00:32:14] Chris Mandell: Totally. Yeah. One of the, one of the initial test riders for this post actually set his, see post height a little bit too high, and then he would just move the CBOs into the travel so that he was always riding in the active ride position, which is a great way to do it for me personally. I do having the, from top out and we think a lot of writers are going to want that. [00:32:34] So we actually, like just with the CBOs, you get to have your cake and eat it too.  [00:32:38] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. I think that for me, my setup's always been, I'm probably like that rider and yeah. My I set my droppers up slightly higher, maybe ever so slightly. So it feels comfortable early on in the day, but oftentimes I find myself running it a little bit lower as a more fatigued or just cruising home at the end of the day. [00:32:58] Chris Mandell: Yeah. I totally sad for me. One of the other things that I've really enjoyed about having a dropper post on a bike too, is a gravel bike is just like ease of getting on and off the bike because you do end up having to get off your gravel bike in difficult terrain sometimes. And it's helpful to be able to like, get the seat down before you finally step off the bike. [00:33:20] Craig Dalton: Totally agree with you there. And for clarity for the listener, this is an access product, which means that it has a wireless activation to it.  [00:33:29] Chris Mandell: Yep. Yeah. So this lives in our active ecosystem. So again, it uses the same battery as the drive trains. We were just talking about. And uses the same communication protocol. [00:33:40] One of the things that's huge advantage of that is that it's, we leave it open to the end user in terms of how they want to activate the system. So you can use a standard reverb access shifter on a flat bar setup to activate this seat post on a drop bar setup, you can use double click on the sh on the road shifters to do that. [00:34:05] And then if you have force or red shifters, you can get one of our blips or multiplex and plug that into your shifter and then use that to control your dropper posts. And then lastly, you can also get a blood box and plug a multi-client or a blip into that, and then use the blip blocks to flip the box, to control the seat post. [00:34:28] So there's a ton of options in terms of how you interact with a post. Craig, I think you have double tap on your bike right now. Correct?  [00:34:40] Craig Dalton: Yup. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting. I was laughing with you the other day that I found that I actually do have scenarios where I'm activating the dropper post with one hand, which seemed crazy. [00:34:50] Wow. We were talking about it, but I was out on the bike again yesterday. And it's oftentimes where I am. I'd be grabbing a sip of water while, beginning to start a downhill, not a, on a fire road or something. And then I found myself historically with my other SRAM bike where it's cable activated, I would swing the left lever and drop my post in anticipation for putting the bottle down and hitting it on the descent. [00:35:15] So it's funny to get used to that. So I am interested in trying the blip set up and I do think it's interesting that the blip box exists. So if you're a writer that maybe not be, is not on an access group oh. Today on your bike, but is looking forward. I think. Investing in this product and just getting the blip box so you can control it on any bike that does not have electronic shifting is a good future proof system and investment because when you do upgrade to the access shifters, you can easily repair it and remove the blip box from the scenario. [00:35:51] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally super good solution. And it's the flexibility that we're given through access.  [00:35:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Any more comments on the dropper posts that you wanted to relay to the listener?  [00:36:04] Chris Mandell: Yeah. Yeah. I think the last thing I would touch on there is obviously, we hit on it's available in 50 and 75 millimeters of travel. [00:36:12] And then three 50 and 400 millimeter lengths. One of the other things too, to keep in mind with that C post is that the rail clamps are compatible. I don't know a meter or standard rounds or oval seven by nine. And then there is a separate clamp available for seven by 10. So we have all of the rail configurations covered in that oral as well. [00:36:34] Gotcha. Pretty excited for the CBOs to get out there and people will be trying it.  [00:36:38] Craig Dalton: Yeah, for sure. You ready to make people really mad?  [00:36:43] Chris Mandell: Yeah.  [00:36:45] Craig Dalton: So RockShox is introducing their Rudy explore suspension fork for gravel bikes today. [00:36:51] Chris Mandell: And I think, it's interesting making people mad cause I think it's also good. I think this is going to expire a lot of people too, if we go back to the origins of mountain biking, there was some hesitation and even moving to suspension in the first place on a mountain bike and. [00:37:05] We kinda know exactly how that ended up not suspension is the name of the game on a mountain bike these days. And I think, from RockShox perspective and from where we're coming to it, we look at any time a bike is getting off-road or even on a rough road as an opportunity for suspension to play a role and to really allow for more comfort and control and traction, which at the end of the day can equate to more speed or can equate to more fun. [00:37:37] And I think, we're all really riding our bikes at the end of the day to have more fun. However, you slice it's on me winning a race. That's what it means, but it means you need to go faster. So from the RockShox perspective, we looked at that and that was really what drove us to develop this part. [00:37:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's clearly a natural place for part of the market to go. And I think you and I would be the first people to state that it's just part of the market, just as we've seen a trend towards bigger and bigger tires, wider handlebars, all these different configurations that riders around the world are discovering to customize these gravel bikes for their local terrain. [00:38:18] No one will sit here and say that bigger tires, wider handlebars suspension forks are for everybody. There's certainly vast parts of the country and world that riding without a suspension fork. And in fact, riding a glorified road bike is totally suitable for the gravel in your backyard, but as someone who rides mostly in Marine county or here in Southern California in the Santa Monica mountains, like I'm really embracing this product and seeing some huge advantages, just five or six rides into. [00:38:54] Chris Mandell: Yeah. From our side, we don't think there's a wrong way to gravel every time someone's getting on their bike and taking it from tarmac to gravel, to single track, and then back onto the tarmac, like that's their experience. And as a components manufacturer, what we're really looking to provide users with is the ability to tune their experience. [00:39:22] So the best that fits what they're trying to do and what's fit their needs. I think one of the things that's really interesting is with, and it's it's not totally unique to grab the gravel space, but it is like an interesting thing that's like pretty pure in the gravel side of things is you almost really build your bike. [00:39:39] You can build your bike really to you. Where you're lacking. So if you do you, aren't a good defender, but you're a great climber, that current for today, like that would point you to putting much bigger tires on your bike and trying to get more traction and get more control and a dissent just by, by putting bigger tires on your bike. [00:40:00] After today, that rider is able to go back to a smaller tire and use suspension and use a dropper post to get a lot more control in those situations where they feel anxious, because they don't necessarily have the confidence to, to be taking their bike down, down horse drops or whatever it is but using suspension and using a dropper post is another way to get that control back into the writer's hand and regain calm. [00:40:30] Yeah,  [00:40:30] Craig Dalton: exactly. I feel like I, the more and more that I advise people on how to get, how to purchase a bike and how to think about what gravel bike makes sense to them. There's all these levers that you're pulling. And it comes down to where you're riding, as you said, what your comfort level is and descents. [00:40:46] I can't tell you how many people I see out there who just are exceptional going uphill, but the moment they go downhill, they start to get terrified and really tense up and, white knuckle, the handlebar, and really have a bad experience on the bike. Whereas adding some elements of suspension, whether it be this fork or larger tires or suspension stem, like all of these things help alleviate some of those challenges, if that's where you're deficient as a cyclist. [00:41:14] Chris Mandell: Absolutely. And the Rudy. So the fork we're bringing is part of the Explorer product line is called the Rudy. And it really is. Bill with the gravel cyclist in mind in terms of providing more grip, getting more control into the rider's hands and allowing the rider to save their body for later in the ride and for pedaling and providing much more control and steering confidence in Russ stuff. [00:41:46] But honestly, even just bombing the regular tarmac road in America, you're going to get a better connected front tire to the ground and you're going to be able to carry more speed through that.  [00:41:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah. One thing I can say, and this is probably the least controversial thing I'll say all day is unequivocally with this fork on your bike, you can go down a hill faster. [00:42:07] So if you think of yourself as a six out of 10, in terms of descending skills, I think you've automatically bumped yourself up to a 7.5.  [00:42:17] Chris Mandell: Yeah, that's great. I love him.  [00:42:19] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And then I would say that, I did play around a lot with the lockout. Totally bombed, totally locked in. So if I was out on the road with this fork it's pretty easy to reach down. [00:42:29] I think just because of the geometry of gravel bikes, it was actually easier to reach down and reach the lockout lever than it was on the mountain bikes that I've written recently. And very easy, obviously to swing it back the other way I tended to climb off-road with it open because I've found that having the tire just be able to roll over the things that were coming in front of me was advantageous even on the climbing. [00:42:52] And I, I did not feel like I was losing a lot to set the stage for the listener. We're talking about 30 or 40 millimeter trout as the travel options in terms of what this fork provides today and tire clearance up to a 700 by 50.  [00:43:10] Chris Mandell: Yeah. So that's a good jumping off point to talk through some of the spec details on this fork. [00:43:16] So as you mentioned, 30 or 40 millimeters of travel is an air spring. And as an air spring that was specifically developed for the Rudy. And our vision with this air spring was to keep this air spring really supple and sensitive off the top so that the writer's hands felt good on the bars. And they were able to have good traction. [00:43:36] We also knew that we didn't want to have it bottoming out harshly at any point during the ride experience. So there's a big bottom out bumper in this fork, which catches it in the second half of the travel and really provides a lot of control as you're going towards Baltimore. The other, another feature that's really specific to this gravel and I think shows how much attention we were paying to the needs of the gravel road. [00:44:04] And we've got two different levels of vendor compatibility. So we have a short fender that we make and sell that bolt-on with three bolts to the arch of the lower leg. And then the fork features threaded holes at the bottom of the lower leg, which allow for standard full coverage vendors to Mount onto this fork as well. [00:44:28] And so no fender, a short fender or for the winter riders, full coverage fenders. We really tuned that in for the gravel experience.  [00:44:38] Craig Dalton: Gotcha. And from a visual design perspective, I found the fork to be as subtle as it could be. Obviously it's got telescoping legs and it's, it is what it is. [00:44:49] But I do find as you're glancing over the bike, it's not sticking out like a sore thumb in any way in my life.  [00:44:57] Chris Mandell: Yeah, that's great to hear. I think we spent a lot of time and effort in the work on this fork, refining it and making it as light and free moving as we possibly could so that it had the best suspension performance and the lightest weight package that we could get on it. [00:45:15] But we did pay attention to the fact that it was going to end up on mostly carbon fiber gravel frames, and it needed to have a clean aesthetic to it. And so we did spend a good deal of time looking at the existing carbon forks were out there on the market today, knowing that we wanted to build this fork in a traditional magnesium, lower leg, aluminum, upper tubes and aluminum crown fashion, because that provided us with the most opportunities for re refining the overall performance with four, in terms of weight and sensitivity. [00:45:49] And so we really spent a lot of time on that. So it's really great to hear that from you.  [00:45:53] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Awesome. And you've also got some OEM partners that are you're working with on this today, and I'm sure more will be dropping in the coming months.  [00:46:02] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. So we definitely have had a lot of OEM interest in uptake on this product, the canyon is one of those partners and they will have models dropping with this fork on it. [00:46:14] And we're pretty excited that they're working with us on that front. There will be numerous other OEMs who are out there also dropping dropping bikes featuring this product and the full product line. Yeah. I  [00:46:25] Craig Dalton: think it's going to be important that riders are able to test and take a look at these products and getting them out there on more bikes and hopefully bikes that might be out there and demo fleets in the future will be great because I think it's it's counterintuitive. [00:46:39] Bike performs with this fork on it. You think, you might think certainly if you have a mountain bike background that certain things are going to happen, you're going to experience certain things in a certain way, but it's clear that you guys had a ground up mentality to make this fork fit. [00:46:54] Gravel bikes.  [00:46:55] Chris Mandell: Yeah. Yeah, no, totally. I think that's an important thing here. That the RockShox is invested in improving the rider's experience on the trail or on the road. And we know and understand that like when we build a cross country fork, that means that we need to be laser focused on the needs of the cross country riders. [00:47:18] And then when we build a downhill race fork, we need to be laser focused on the needs of a downhill racer. And we brought that same approach when it came to developing the Rudy and developing the Rudy as a hyper-focused. Gravel product. It doesn't mean that we didn't pull from our experience on the cross-country and Enduro side of things. [00:47:42] We definitely pulled from that heritage space, the damper. So the thing that provides control on compression and control on rebound in this fork is a scaled down gravel specific version of our race day damper, which you find in our Sid and sit FL cross-country race corks. And that was really, and we developed that damper. [00:48:08] It was really a revolutionary, super lightweight, but very high performance in terms of the control it provided in open and then the way the lockout function. And we took that damper and we scaled it down. And tuned it to the needs of the gravel rider. Both in terms of the functionality for rebound and compression performance, but also just made that thing even lighter than it was before. [00:48:32] And that's the hard work and the nitty gritty details that we put into the forklift, into the Rudy to make it specific for gravel.  [00:48:41] Craig Dalton: Nice. I want to revisit something you commented on earlier. Cause I do think it's important. It's going to be interesting to see over time. Just the idea of suspension forks, helping with overall rider fatigue, obviously as you're going down super technical stuff, like it's immediately apparent what that looks like, but I also think it's going to be interesting over time that as we see these forks on beneath riders who are tackling 200 mile gravel events, et cetera, To see how they're walking away from those rides in terms of how their upper body feels and how that equates to their overall time and experience on these long courses. [00:49:23] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. I remember a conversation that I had with Meg Fisher he's an ambassador for us. And it was right when she found out that we were making this product and she was ecstatic on the phone. Cause she was telling me about how, in some of the longer gravel races she does, she ends up with blisters on her hand from the amount of like bumping and just like carnage. [00:49:46] That's getting transmitted from the road up through the entire system, to, to our hands on the bike. And she was really excited about trying to Rudy because she felt like that this is a way that she can isolate our hands and the rest of her body from those rough vibrations. Even on just a gravel road, race scenario. [00:50:09] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. Now it's going to be interesting. Right. And I, I'm always encouraging event organizers to add more sort of off-road technicality to their courses. Cause I just think it becomes more interesting when you see writers of different disciplines excelling in the events. I'm always a fan of the mountain bike background guys and girls doing well in these gravel races because of their technical skills, because I think they should be rewarded and course designers should continue to push those limits. [00:50:39] So I do think it's going to be super fascinating to see when we start seeing these Rudy forks underneath riders and who they are, are they elite athletes trying to gain a competitive advantage on a particular course? Or are they the rank and file athlete who is just looking to have a more pleasurable experience and less fatiguing experience over these long runs? [00:51:03] Chris Mandell: Yeah. I think without a doubt, you're going to see all of that. This, what this means for a rider is less body fatigue because you have less energy coming up from the road into the rider and you have more control as a rider. Your tire is going to be stuck to the ground more often. And that increase in control will give the rider more confidence and enable them to have more fun on their ride and allow them to push harder, allow them to go faster. [00:51:31] If they want to go faster or have more fun that the speed that they're going. And then the other thing, and I touched on this a little bit in the last one, but like more traction means that it's going to the bike is going to predict or is going to handle it in a more predictable fashion. And you are going to know more often than not where the front tire is. [00:51:54] You're going to be able to get it to where you're going. And you actually touched on earlier. Like obviously that plays a role in the sense, but even on, challenging climbs being able to keep your front wheel exactly where you want it to be is pretty important. And this fork allows for that, even on the Quan,  [00:52:12] Craig Dalton: the final area I wanted to explore with you is just the use and sale of this fork in the aftermarket. [00:52:20] So you've mentioned a number of companies are building kind of ground up designs around this fork, but what about the many listeners who have a bike that was designed prior to this date and time, and prior to the knowledge of the Rudy fork existing, how should they think about the changes in geometry they might experience when running one of these forks? [00:52:42] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. Just re I'll run through a couple they, aftermarket detailed side of things. So as you mentioned, it will be available in 30 or 40 millimeter. The Rudy fork will be available in 30 or 40 millimeters of travel. It will come in 45 offset. The come in two different colorways that will come in like a gloss black or what we call quicksand, which is which is a tan colored product that fits with our overall explore product line. [00:53:10] So what do you want to consider as you're looking to upgrade your existing bike with this fork is in most cases, it probably will resolve and that increase in the axle, the crown. [00:53:24] That is something we want to watch out for, but it's something, the thing that we think is actually a benefit. Gravel bikes today are built around the idea that you're going to be changing your tires around. You're going to be, maybe trying six 50 and then, or using 700. [00:53:40] So there's a whole lot of flexibility inside of the existing gravel frame. And there may be a result in an increase in actual crown versus the rigid fork that you have on your bike today. But in our testing so far, what we've seen is people appreciate that and the handling of the bike because of the added suspension element improved versus a rigid fork on the bike. [00:54:04] You do want to check with your manufacturer to make sure that their warranty covers having a suspension product to the frame. That's a good first step to do, but really at the end of the day, It's a matter of you decided that suspension is a good path for you. Riding out on an existing demo bike or taking the plunge and adding it to your friend it's available in and 1.5, our inch and a taper to 1.5. [00:54:29] So you're looking at needing to have that head tube on your  [00:54:32] Craig Dalton: bike as well. One of the things that we had discussed offline was, in my particular case, I tend to run, I couldn't say off the top of my head, but a fair number of spacers underneath my headset. And as this fork will naturally lift my head to about higher. [00:54:48] The very on-point suggestion you made was if you take those spacers out and slam the stem lower down in that stack, all of a sudden you mitigate some of the rise in handlebar position.  [00:55:03] Chris Mandell: Yeah, totally. And that's a really easy one to do, you just take it. The actual, the crown of your existing for today and subtract the actual, the crown of this fork. [00:55:12] And that's how many space or, whatever that number is. It's 10 millimeters. You just, move 10 millimeters of spacer from underneath your stem to above your stone.  [00:55:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. That I think on my personal ride that would effectively be completely possible. And I think that's interesting. [00:55:30] And I think the point around, the changes in handling being pretty subtle, it's worth noting, but it also is worth noting that, your riders have not really commented much on the changes in geometry, on the bike.  [00:55:44] Chris Mandell: Totally. And I think, another important aspect of that is keep in mind, like these gravel bikes are built with a lot of this in mind. [00:55:51] We, I run 37 C tires all the way up to 45 C I have run all the way up to 45 C tires. The same gravel bike, so a lot of these bikes you're switching from like pretty big changes entire sizes. And that's what the bikes were built to accommodate. And it's it's no different on the fork side of things. [00:56:11] Yeah. Yeah.  [00:56:12] Craig Dalton: And anything else on the fork that you wanted to share, Chris?  [00:56:16] Chris Mandell: I think that covers it pretty well. You made the point about 700 by 50 being the tire clearance. And I think we've touched a lot of the points. I'm really excited for the Rudy. And I think it's going to be a, I think it's going to Herald the new age in the gravel experience. [00:56:30] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I share that enthusiasm. I think it's good for the market. I think there's going to be a lot of debate online about the existence of this product and what it means, but I guarantee that over time, People are going to see the advantages of a product like this. And we're going to see more and more bikes come straight out of the factory with suspension built into them because the advantages are super high for a lot of different types of riders in the gravel market. [00:57:00] Chris Mandell: Absolutely. And even with this product out there, like not every bike is going to end up with a Rudy on it, but the bikes that do end up with a Rudy on it is going to open a bunch of doors to a rider that would have been shot previously. So I think, there's no wrong way to gravel. And if this is something that makes sense to you as a rider, because you have the defense is a place that you struggle or on longer rides your stand start to hurt, or you just want to be able to. [00:57:29] Keep up with your friends a little bit better or drop your friends in certain instances, this is a great great way to have a little bit of fun on your, a little more fun on your gravel bike and add a little bit of capability. And, we didn't, I touched on this a little bit, but this is one of those things that can allow you to run a smaller, lighter tire because you don't need to rely on the tire as much as you were previously and what other doors can moving and trying suspension unlocked for you. [00:57:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I had that in the back of my head, cause we had talked about that earlier and I hesitated to open yet another can of worms around tire sizes, but point well taken like all these advances in technology. Whether it's the fork that dropper posts, et cetera, they're all changing things slightly and changing the considerations for any individual rider says, you said what might have driven me to a 50 millimeter tire previously, I may be able to draw back on that because I don't need the suspension elements of the fork, all sorry of the tire. [00:58:27] All of a sudden I'm getting that in the fork. So it's yet another thing as we've talked about time and time again, there's this long spectrum. And I think it can, it's even getting even longer today between a road pro plus style of gravel bike and something that's very, off-road, iSTYLE gravel bike. [00:58:44] There's not a definitive solution. That is the best for everybody across the world. But to your point, very early on in this conversation, SRAM RockShox zips. You're trying to be there for all those riders and give them a wealth of compatible componentry to build the rigs that are going to make them stoked to ride. [00:59:09] Chris Mandell: Exactly. Yeah. I, we are cyclists at strand and we are having the same writing experiences and want to have the same range of experiences. And you can just see that easily from our locations. The team in Chicago has thoughts. The team in Colorado Springs has thoughts. The team in San Luis Obispo has thought the team in Vancouver, British Columbia has thoughts. [00:59:30] The team in Taiwan has thoughts the team in Germany, out of Sox and all those come together and really push us to make products that allow writers to have full breadth of experience.  [00:59:42] Craig Dalton: Chris, thank you so much for all the time. Congrats on the explore launch. Super excited to get this out.  [00:59:48] Chris Mandell: Thank you so much for the time. [00:59:49] And I'm really excited to hear more about your rad experience on that bike. [00:59:54] Craig Dalton: Big, thanks for Chris for that long detailed conversation about the new XPLR series from SRAM, super excited about what they're bringing to the table.  [01:00:03] Natural. I'm particularly excited about the suspension fork.  [01:00:07] To be an exceptional product for some. for everyone, but I think it's going.  [01:00:14] And I'm confident it's going to continue pushing the gravel industry forward.  [01:00:18] As always thank you for your support of the podcast. Dot or even become a member. ride to make a one-time contribution. www.buymeacoffee.com/thegravelride www.theridership.com. I t's a free global cycling community for adventure and gravel cyclists. Deals. Until next time here's to finding some dirt under your wheels [01:00:52]   

http://christiancarguy.com/ https://www.amazon.com/What-Are-Stakes-Markers-Land/dp/1544239580/ref=pd_bxgy_img_1/134-0051511-6478310?pd_rd_w=4NWRF&pf_rd_p=c64372fa-c41c-422e-990d-9e034f73989b&pf_rd_r=R49XVQKB73YXQ3XKYGS9&pd_rd_r=868cfe3b-cc84-4b11-9dd9-4f286a6b4118&pd_rd_wg=I1t64&pd_rd_i=1544239580&psc=1 Steve's journey learning about spiritual warfare got serious when a non-Christian man came to him with a problem: he said he had demons on his property. Steve didn't know how to respond, so he silently prayed as the man talked. After the quick prayer, Steve had a strange verse pop into his head from Deuteronomy 6 that instructed God's people to put Scripture on their gates and doorposts. So Steve & this non-Christian man who was desperate for help put Bible verses on ordinary tent stakes. Then they placed these stakes in the ground on the corners of this man's property, read the verses out loud, and prayed for God's protection. Everything changed. The man confessed Jesus as Lord, was baptized, and is now living faithfully in peace and safety as a Christian. Others heard about this event and copied this idea, and Spiritual Warfare Stakes were born (also available from Steve and on Amazon). So many people began to call Steve with amazing stories of good things that happened after placing this symbol of their faith around them that Steve researched the biblical connections to this idea and put these amazing stories together in this second edition of "What Are The Stakes?" God markers on the land are throughout the Scriptures: Goshen was set apart, blood on the doorposts protected the faithful, there were markers around Mt. Sinai, piles of stones marked connections to God, altars honored God, and the list goes on and on. It's all about faith. Jesus could do few miracles where there was no faith. Prayers without faith accomplish little. But Jesus noticed, honored, and rewarded great faith with healing. The woman with the issue of blood had no reason to think that touching the hem of Jesus' robe would heal her, but she decide that it would, she acted on her decision, and she was literally healed. That's the principle behind the placing of these spiritual warfare stakes around your home, your property, your office, your hotel room, or your loved ones. Take a leap of faith and read these amazing God-stories, and you, too, will be placing Bible passages around your land and your family. Watch what God does after you do, and your life will never ever be the same. Lord, I pray for every person who reads this. Open their eyes to Your mighty power today and to the strength that lies in the words from the Bible. No evil force can stand against You and Your powerful Word. Use this to Your glory. In Jesus' Name, amen.

I'm going to make an extra $200,000 profit in my real estate wholesaling business this year because of ONE CONVERSATION that I just had…All about how to structure your “exit strategy” to make more on every deal.This is REALLY important in a seller's market…Listen in now!Steve and Kayce Tackett are wholesalers in the Columbia, SC area.They're also members of the 7 Figure Altitude group.And when I heard that they had doubled their profit margins and were on track for $1,000,000 in income in 12 months, I had to get them on the 7 Figure Flipping Podcast to share what they're doing.Guys, it's seriously AWESOME…Listen to this episode IN FULL to find out how they're maximizing their profit per deal (and getting $60,000 to $100,000 “wholesale fees” on some of these houses).There's so much more we didn't get to cover in this episode…So Steve and Kayce will be breaking down their systems in more detail at the 7 Figure Flipping Accelerator event happening July 23-24.This is a FREE virtual event that ANYONE can attend.It'll be happening live online.If you haven't signed up yet, we still have spots available.It's your chance to learn more from Steve and Kayce, plus a bunch of other incredible real estate investors…Hit the link below to register!CLICK HERE to Get a Spot at 7 Figure Flipping Accelerator >>See you then!Links and ResourcesWant to learn how to get consistent real estate deals every month in TODAY'S market? ON July 23-24, I'm holding a FREE virtual event… the 7 Figure Flipping Accelerator. We're going to spend 2 days breaking down how to find deals, how to get private funding, and more. It's 100% FREE to attend. But spots on Zoom are limited… sign up now!- CLICK HERE: https://7figureflipping.com/goFlip Hacking LIVE tickets for October 2021 are available now… and seats are filling up fast. If you want to learn the exact systems and strategies the nation's top house flippers and wholesalers are using to flip 100s of houses per year, reserve your spot today. Hit the link below to sign up!- CLICK HERE: FlipHackingLIVE.comIf you're an experienced real estate investor and you're ready to get around a community of active house flippers and wholesalers who will support you, hold you accountable, and push you to set goals that inspire you as you grow your business, check out 7 Figure Altitude and see if it looks like a good fit. If it is, I invite you to fill out a quick application to join. If you have any questions, reach out!- CLICK HERE: 7FigureAltitude.com====================Want to continue your house flipping / wholesaling journey? Here are a few more resources to check out...Subscribe: Join the 7 Figure Flipping email list to get the latest house flipping and wholesaling secrets, plus insider access to real estate investing tips, training, and more! Click Here: https://7figureflipping.com/subscribe7 Figure Flipping Podcast: Subscribe and get more episodes like this one delivered to you every week! Click Here: https://7figureflipping.com/listenFacebook Group: We've built a community of serious investors who are learning and growing their businesses together. Join the Group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/fliphacking/7FigureFlipping.com: Learn more about who we are, our mentoring groups, upcoming events, and the causes we support at our website. Plus, grab some free downloads and other materials to help you on your real estate investing journey! Click Here: https://7figureflipping.com/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Today, I want to share with you my biggest lesson of the Pandemic and its aftermath as viewed through the perspective of a special friend. Holler Homestead Open House and Canning Demo Last Week's Webinar Video is up on the Member Portal  Tales from the Prepper Pantry Failing on meal planning and staying on whole foods: Hard boiled eggs, cheese, celery sticks, bacon and eggs, Mahi, green beans and summer squash, roasted new potatoes, red veined sorrel, pesto on something with green garlic and fresh basil. Cold cuts and cured meats for road food. Freeze Drying Cheesecake (#allthethings) Sun Tea Cucumbers and beets are coming on and it is time to put up quick pickles Operation Independence Focus on health Main topic of the Show: Best Lesson From The 2020 Pandemic This show was supposed to be on Friday last week. But my health got in the way. And yet this may be the most important show topic of 2021.  This show is in part about the biggest lesson to be learned from the 2020 pandemic, how officials and our societies reacted to it, and maybe even a little about why what some of us THINK is the biggest lesson learned should be reexamined if it is not this lesson. But more important about today is what got me to thinking of this lesson. It was a friend, fellow farmer/homesteader. A guy by the name of Steve who works really really hard to live life on his terms. Steve is not a young man, and he has even had an organ transplant. His ticker ain't what it used to be either. Steve is the kind of guy who meets lots of people and he somehow manages to bring out the best, to encourage them to just get started on doing what they say they want to do. The longer you talk to Steve, the more you realize how incredible his life has been and the sheer number of things this man has done - and he has done them well. And the best part? He is not a loudmouth like me -- he observes and is sort of quiet. But when he talks, people listen. And when he hears I cant from someone, he asks why. You may wonder what in the world Steve has to do with my pandemic lesson? Well that is the thing.  If I ask most people around me what their biggest lesson learned I will get one of the following lessons: Supply Chains Are Unstable (centralization vs decentralization) The Media Controls the Narrative More Than We Thought People Are Anti Science People Do Not Understand How Science Works People Are Selfish And We Must Control Those Jerks Big Tech, Big, Ag, Big Government, New World Order, Growth in Freedom Networks And while all those things may be lessons you can take from the pandemic, which one is the biggest? I must admit, I have spun like a pinball from idea to idea dn lesson to lesson over the past year and a half -- and YES -- we have been doing this for a freaking year and a half now my friends. A year and a half you will never get back.  And last week, I started thinking about what you and I and others are never getting back (depending on how far we took things): A year and a half of: Seeing faces Hugs Being together in groups Flying Going to work Income Birthday parties Hand shakes Building rapport Trust New relationships Stability and community   People have lost so much: Homes Loved ones Businesses Jobs Confidence Joy All for what? An illness with between a 99%-and 99.5% survival rate according to the sources that so many have come to distrust. I pulled that from the CDC in case you are wondering. Compare it to the flu: 99.5% survival rate. Now we all know that older people have increased risk and I am not discounting that. But look at what we have given up? The hugs, seeing grandma and grandpa, crying over zoom. Guys, we are herd animals. We need each other to be whole. Without community - even if we like being solitary -- without community we suffer. When we suffer, our health goes down hill.  There were times in the last 18 months when people were drawing their last breath all alone in a room in a hospital, not allowed to have their children with them, holding their hands. For fear of spreading the disease, even if they were not dying from covid. Which begs the question did that even make sense?  Enter Steve. Steve is the kind of guy in an age bracket of the highest risk, with a compromised immune system. Know what Steve gave up for the pandemic? Nothing. Not a damn thing. Steve was in the hospital with surgery complications last fall for about two months. A week or two after he got out, he was at an event in Texas hugging his friends sharing his knowledge, selling his rabbit cages (and the man makes AMAZING rabbit cages), and having a grand time. There was not a mask to be seen at this event. Know what Steve said about that? He said, I'd rather live the days I have left than hide from the virus. Steve knew his risks. And he knew the consequences of getting ill with Covid. And he knew the bigger risk was not living for 18 months of the time he had left. So Steve lived life and mentored the people he came across. And therein is the lesson: The biggest lesson from the Pandemic is we only have NOW. Not the past -- that already happened. Not the future: that has not yet happened. We have what is now. Right in front of us today. We have no idea hope long we will be here. We know that one day we will not be here.  So for me, the biggest lesson from the Pandemic is to stop procrastinating the someday, to prioritize those things that are most important, and to do them. Now -- or as best as they can be done in the now. To live life and not put it on hold. I've learned to make time for that friend to visit. To accept that sometimes things are not all put together because dammit I need to go swimming with my dogs. To travel to that workshop and be in person even though I might get sick from it. To weigh the long term and short term risks of things like a vaccination and make the best decision for NOW. Not last week and not next year. And yes, part of living life is an element of selfishness. You have limited time here with yourself, your friends, and your family. What is most important to you? Is it them, then spend time with them. Is it learning something new -- then spend time on that. Is it expanding your community, go to that event. You only have the NOW and you can't control when you will go. And that brings me back to Steve. Last week, Steve taught me this lesson in a shocking way. He got very ill and ended up in the ICU. And my first thought was this: He has no regrets right now. His wife told me the day before he landed at the hospital he had bought a brand new zero turn mower. She joked that she was going to go whisper in his ear that he'd better recover quickly or she was going to drive it. I told her to do it! Why? Because even if he did not recover, whatever part of him could hear her through the coma would find humor in it. At that is Steve. Guys, Steve did not recover. He passed yesterday having lived a very long, ful life learning new things, helping so many people, and going out during this pandemic even though he knew the risks he would face if he contracted covid.  I will miss Steve so much when he is not at the events we frequent, when I realize I need rabbit cages and had not gotten around to putting in an order, when I see someone in the corner that could use pulling out and he is not there to do it, when the big end of event bear hug is missing. But I am also glad for Steve that we was running around buying a cool new mower the day before he had a stroke that ultimately killed him. That's right - he lived his life through the pandemic, knowing the risks. And the virus did not get him -- it was simply his time. But he had one last lesson for me too - and I hope you can take it on. That you hear this and think, what am I not building that I want to be? Who have I not visited out of fear? What can I do to live NOW? Membership Plug MeWe reminder Make it a great week! Song: Grandpa's Song by Sauce GUYS! Don't forget about the cookbook, Cook With What You Have by Nicole Sauce and Mama Sauce.  Community Mewe Group: https://mewe.com/join/lftn Telegram Group: https://t.me/LFTNGroup Odysee: https://odysee.com/$/invite/@livingfree:b Advisory Board The Booze Whisperer The Tactical Redneck Chef Brett Samantha the Savings Ninja Resources Membership Sign Up Holler Roast Coffee

Episode Notes Antiques are so cute, a fun waste of money with an educational flavor... Unless the history is dark and gruesome... and EVIL. The Black Museum by John Oak Dalton Buy the new "Babysitter Massacre" book! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P4ZF9LG/ Get Cool Merchandise http://store.weeklyspooky Support us on Patreon http://patreon.com/IncrediblyHandsome Support Weekly Spooky by donating to their Tip Jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/weekly-spooky Contact Us/Submit a Story twitter.com/WeeklySpooky facebook.com/WeeklySpooky WeeklySpooky@gmail.com Music by Ray Mattis http://raymattispresents.bandcamp.com Produced by Daniel Wilder This episode sponsored by HenFlix.com For everything else visit WeeklySpooky.com Transcript: They were taping the Halloween special at the visitor center in Ipswich because they couldn’t afford Salem at Halloween but fuck it, Steve thought, the rumor was this was the last season of the show anyway.  He would just say in the cold open they were in Salem and who would know the difference. There was a guy with a Jim Abbott rookie card which wasn’t worth much, but the guy was telling a good story about seeing him play at the University of Michigan, so they’d probably use it in the episode.  They only had a trickle of people here wanting their junk to be appraised for the show so they would have to take what they had. Junkin’ Coast to Coast had been broadcast for seventeen years on a second-tier cable channel and had been steadily declining in viewership since the original host had the temerity to kill himself.  It used to be called Junkin’ with Joe but Shit with Steve didn’t have the same ring to it so there you go. The bitch of it all, in Steve’s mind, was fucking Joe died with a belt hanging around his neck and a bunch of furry porn around his feet, but all of that has been conveniently forgotten and Steve was never going to be considered as good as the original guy. His videographer Yvonne had the baseball card guy squared up on a head and shoulders shot and was half turned away texting somebody.  She had been his primary shooter on the East Coast, and since the budget of the show kept shrinking year over year they traveled less and less and stayed closer to New York, and Steve’s other videographers in other parts of the country dropped away.   But even though they spent a lot of time together when they were shooting the show, and stayed at the same hotels and ate together every night, they had never hooked up.  Never even brushed hands.  Yet Steve felt like Yvonne was breaking up with him. This old lady comes up with another fucking Blenko vase and then after that was a lull, and Yvonne stepped out into the cold fall night and called somebody.  Steve watched through the windows of the visitor center.  When she hung up Steve went outside to confront her. “Are you looking for another job?” “It’s the last show of the season, Steve.” “Yeah, but we’re starting again in Portsmouth in January and people have always cleared out a bunch of shit over the holidays.” Yvonne shook her head.  “I’m hearing this is it.  Even if it isn’t I gotta keep an eye out for me.” Steve pointed at her cell phone. “Who was that?” Yvonne just shrugged.  “It was Rich, he’s on that dive bar show now where they show people how to fix them up, make a new drink menu, that kind of thing.” “Where he went when he fucking cut out on Junkin’, yeah.” “That’s not how he sees it but yeah.” “The asshole who hosts that?  We were at the upfronts in Boston with the network guys, and he was a douchebag to everybody.” “Yeah, but Rich says that’s only when he drinks.” “The whole premise of the show is him fucking drinking!” “Well, Rich says he needs a second shooter, so…” “So you’re the first shooter on my show!” Yvonne just looked at him, then slides her eyes back through the window of the visitor center.  Steve follows her line of sight and sees a guy in coveralls with a little book under his arm, and fuck my life if that isn’t probably a Civil War diary about somebody nobody gives a shit about. So Steve just set his jaw and Yvonne followed him back into the visitor center.  A blast of warm air and close smells hits them. “Hey, thanks for coming out to the show, if you’ll sign this release we can sit down and I can check out what you have there.”   The guy looked pretty nervous up close and only gives a little bird-like nod.  While he is scratching his name on the clipboard Yvonne holds out to him the fake smile dropped from Steve’s face. “Hey, can I look at this while my videographer sets up real quick?” “Sure, man, that’s why I brought it.”  the guy said.  “I found it when I was cleaning out my uncle’s attic.  He passed over the summer.” Steve swallowed hard and takes the small, soft-edged book while Yvonne gets ready to clip a lavalier mic on the guy. Steve frowned with distaste and puts the book down quickly on a nearby table.  Both Yvonne and the guy look at Steve with surprise. “Take that mic off, we can’t talk to this dude.”  Steve said with finality. The guy in the coveralls raised his hands in mock surrender. “Hey, man, I just want to know what I have there.” Steve looked at him steadily.  “It looks like you have a diary bound in human skin, and I don’t dick around with shit like that.” Now the guy looked more surprised than he did before.  He holds his hands open wide. “I-I didn’t know that.” “You said you got that from your uncle?  Maybe you should turn that over to the police.” “The police?  What?  It ain’t like that.” Steve just shrugged.  “I don’t care what it’s like, I’m not going on camera with a book made out of somebody’s skin.” Yvonne retreated behind her camera and doesn’t check her cell phone, for once. The guy in coveralls looked through the window of the visitor center to the darkness beyond, where nobody else is coming to bring their old crap tonight.  Then he looked square at Steve. “Okay, this is the straight story, man.  I’m a plumber, okay, I work for the city, we get this call there’s water running out of this old abandoned building, way down by Choate Bridge.  We go down there, water running across the street, eventually I gotta break into the place, look for a busted pipe, see?” “This is the most boring fucking story that involves a diary made of human skin I have ever heard.” “Okay, okay, so wait a second, I get in there, I shut off the pipe, I start looking around a minute.  This old boarded up place is full of all kinds of shit.  It looks like medieval torture shit and a bunch of other stuff I don’t know what it is, but there’s probably some money in all that, right?  But I can’t haul all that out with my partner just outside so I just grab this book off a shelf and thought I would bring it here tonight, see if this shit was worth anything.  My grandma watches your show, you know?” Steve is actually able to ignore this comment because his mind is working, working.   “What’s your name, dude?” “Why you got to know my name?” “I’m not calling the cops, I just want to know what to call YOU.” “Jimmy.  Jimmy Corey.” “So what other kind of stuff was in this place, Jimmy?”   Jimmy shrugged.  “Maybe some other weapons, some guns and shit, but I’m not touching somebody else’s guns.” “I have a feeling that was a good idea.  Just hang loose a second.” Steve lifted his chin, and Yvonne follows him to the corner, out of earshot. Yvonne looked at him like he was crazy. “Yvonne…I think this dude here found a Black Museum.” Yvonne arched a brow at him.  “A BLACK Museum?!” “Jesus, not that kind of Black, calm down a minute—“ “Now I have to calm down?!” “It’s not that kind of Black Museum!!  The original was in London, but now it refers to any place where somebody has collected artifacts from various crimes…on the circuit, you know, the world I live in…sometimes you hear about private collectors…” “You mean people that want like, a picture a serial killer painted, shit like that?” “I mean, that’s a mild example, but yeah.” “We’ve never seen anything like that come through.  You sure that is human skin?” “Yeah, it is.” “So what do you want to do?” Steve looked back at Jimmy. “We need to get this guy to take us to that place.” “What?  Why?” “Just trust me.  And when we get there, don’t stop rolling tape for anything.” “My contract says I’m done at 7:30.” Steve shook his head angrily. “Forget about 7:30!  We’re looking at Season 18!  Believe me.” “Uh-huh,” Yvonne said flatly.  “Season 18.” A few minutes later Steven and Yvonne piled into Jimmy’s panel van and headed towards the river. “You oughta do a whole show on the Choate Bridge,” Jimmy offered as they got closer.  “It’s one of the oldest bridges in the United States, if not THE oldest.” “Can someone take that bridge down and bring it into the Ipswich Visitor Center?  No?  Then it can’t be on the fucking show.” Jimmy just shook his head.  “It was just an idea.  And when did you shave your beard?” “What?” “He’s talking about Joe,” Yvonne threw in. Of course he’s fucking talking about Joe, Steve thought. “Never, Jimmy.  I never shaved it.” Jimmy blinks owlishly, then steers the panel van into a gravel lot next to a large, dilapidated building with the bridge looming close by, close enough that brackish water seeped up through the gravel all around them when they stepped out. Steve looked around.  “Somebody could urban renew this shit, put in a boardwalk, turn this into something.” “ It’s gotta fit in with the history, it’s how we do things around here,” Jimmy answered, as he fiddles the latch where a snapped-off combination lock hangs. Yvonne crowded in closer to Steve. “There’s some sort of shape over there.  Looks like a dead raccoon or something.” Jimmy doesn’t turn around. “I’m a plumber for the city.  If it ain’t got at least one shoe sticking up we don’t check it out.” Steve was about to ask Yvonne if she was rolling, get her focus back, when something came out of the darkness ahead with a sound like THWIP THWIP THWIP and suddenly the blackness around Steve was total. When Steve next opened his eyes something warm was running down his face, and he knew it was blood because Yvonne was directly in front of him and blood was running from a scalp wound on her head, too. Near her was a guy dressed all in black, with an ugly face tattoo, and fuck if the guy wasn’t swinging a bola from one hand. Jimmy stood stiff-legged off to the side watching as Yvonne stumbled in a loopy circle and carefully put the camera on the ground, seemingly in a daze.   Then the man in black uncoiled like a serpent and let the bola go, and the rope wrapped around Yvonne’s neck, and the two steel balls at the end clapped against Yvonne’s skull and her legs went out from under her, and she quit moving. Steve’s vision swam.  Jimmy’s voice, growing shrill, cut through the gathering dark clouds. “You said you’d let her go!” The man turned his gaze on Jimmy, who took an involuntary step back.  But he kept on with his protests. “You said you’d let my girlfriend go if I got him here!” The man in black’s voice skipped down Steve’s spine.  “I did set her free.” It was the last moment you have before reality sets in.  Jimmy licked his lips. “Where is she, then?” “Over there.” Jimmy didn’t want to look.  “Behind them boxes?” “Behind them…what didn’t fit in them….” Jimmy fell to his knees, his eyes rolling back in shock. The man in black took a step forward, pulling a six-inch blade from an unseen sheath and opening Jimmy’s now-convenient throat from ear to ear.  Steve watched the blood make a bright red arc before he passed out. When Steve awoke this time the man in black had been busy.  He had strapped Yvonne, still only semi-conscious, to some sort of torture device that Jimmy had described as medieval.  But the strained part awake in the back of Steve’s mind told him, despite the terror flooding all the other parts of his brain, that it wasn’t built that long ago, maybe as recently as the 70s.  Could have been a sex toy somebody built in their garage, or a prop from a chintzy b-movie. Steve’s mind snapped clear when the cold eyes of the man in black sought him out. “You’re back with us, junk man,” the man said, and Steve thought, oh, we gotta do this shit like that. Steve got to his hands and knees, then slowly to his feet.  He surveyed the torture device from a short distance, with a critical eye. “So this is a Black Museum.” “Your unfortunate friend Billy did not lie about that.  I’ve been quietly working on my kingdom here for some time, and the pieces are almost complete.” “That bola?” “It was used by a teenager in Mexico City in the early 2000s.  He threw it off an overpass through a bus window, killing the driver and causing the bus to flip, killing a dozen children.  He was listening to a band called Clowns Eat Little Girls and he said in court the music told him to do it.” “And the knife?” “It’s a Korshun with the serial number filed off, of course.  Translates to ‘Kite Bird.’  A former Russian Special Forces soldier used it to kill more than 20 prostitutes in the Balkans throughout the 90s before INTERPOL caught up to him.” The man in black lifted Yvonne’s chin with one pale hand and studied her skull like you would a piece of fruit in the produce aisle. “We will start with this device,” and something in the voice now made Steve’s hair stand on end.  “It was built and used in the early 70s by the man who became known as the National Road Killer, and many a poor hitchhiker with fewer prospects than this young woman spent their last hours here.” He turned his eyes back to Steve again. “But you can set her free.  All you have to do is assist me with the final pieces of my red puzzle.” “So I can end up like Jimmy?  Thanks anyway, dude.” Yvonne mumbles.  “Steve…” The man in black frowned, and his disapproval is like a hand closing around Steve’s throat. “The simplest switch on this device starts moving joints in ways they should not go.  Then it gets more complicated from there for your friend.” Steve barked out a laugh. “You got this shit all wrong.  She’s not my friend.  She works for me.  And you can get camera people by the bagful in New York.” “Fuck you, Steve!”  Yvonne cried out, her voice warbling with desperation. “It’s the gig economy,” Steve shrugged. Steve’s comment even brings this stone cold killer up short. “Do you not even want to know what I want you to do?” “Lay it on me, scribble face.” The man in black waved the Russian blade in a slow, lazy arc.  Then it disappeared with a whisper back into its sheath. “This is a grand blade, one that has taken many lives, but several years ago, an elderly man brought a knife to your show, and you sent him away after telling him that the blade was worth very little.  That man was named John Wallace Hansen, and he died last year.  On his deathbed it was alleged he revealed he had killed a dozen women with that blade, but was never caught because he had made a pact with the devil.  He was probably never caught because of his fabulous wealth, which he also ascribed to his pact. I believe that knife now rests with his daughter.  I want—I need—for you to reach out to her and offer to re-evaluate that knife. Then do what you have to do to bring that knife to me.” “Where does she live?  If it’s Peoria, it’s gonna be a minute.” “As it happens she lives very nearby in Salem, where you taped the program her father appeared on.” Steve shook his head.  “You got something wrong.  We never taped a show in Salem.  We couldn’t get in there this time either.” “You had a beard back then.” The pain in Steve’s skull cleared, but his eyes began to see a red haze. “I never had a fucking beard.” “It was many years ago now.” “I’ve hosted this show seven years.” “No, before that.” “Before that…” Anger flooded through Steve’s rubbery limbs. “That…was…THE OTHER GUY!!” Without realizing what he was doing, Steve lunged at the man in black.  His hand instinctively went to where he had seen the tattooed man slip the knife away and suddenly Steve had it by the handle and was pushing the blade upward, upward, and it went under the man’s chin and through his tongue and stuck somewhere in the roof of his mouth before blood began gushing out through his teeth. He fell to his knees as Steve had watched Jimmy do, and with that in his mind he picked the bola up from where it lay on the concrete floor nearby and pulped the other man’s skull with it until even the twitching stopped. Steve started undoing Yvonne’s bonds with blood-slicked hands and as he looked closer at the device it was a fucking good thing it never started up, he might have puked. “Yvonne, what I said, it was bullshit.  That guy was never going to fucking let us live after I did what he wanted.” “Steve, what I said?  I meant it.  Fuck you, Steve.” “Fair enough, I got you into this.  We both got hit in the fucking head, that’s not great, we both said some shit.” “But I did what you told me to.  I never stopped shooting. “ Steve stops untying her for a short, surprised moment. “What?” “I never stopped shooting.” Steve looked over at the camera Yvonne set on the ground when they first walked in. “Oh shit.” Eighteen months later everything was working out fine for Steve.  He wasn’t charged with anything, and the footage made him a kind of hero.  There was renewed interest in his show, but Steve got too big for it and now was about to host a special on a major network, live from the original Black Museum in London, with the current curator from New Scotland Yard answering his questions. He had invited Yvonne to join him as a producer but she didn’t want to leave the dive bar show.  She had ended up hooking up with Rich, so maybe that was part of her plan all along.  Rich and Steve had mended fences, and Rich told him Yvonne hardly ever woke up screaming any more. Of course, as soon as Steve was cleared by the cops he went to Salem and found the daughter and bought the knife with what savings he had left, though the daughter had heard the rumors too and was happy to get rid of it.  Not for fucking free or anything, Steve noted. The first couple of days Steve didn’t do anything with it, but eventually he went down to the dumpsters behind his Astoria apartment building at night and waited for rats.  A couple of nights after that and he finally hit one after getting pretty good at throwing the knife, and also having plenty of targets. The very next day a woman who had dumped him came back into his life and they went to bed together right away and then she moved in a few weeks after that. But before she decided to move in Steve was able to kill another rat with the knife and the next day an aunt he never fucking saw anyway left him a couple grand. So fuck it, he started figuring out this dark web shit and advertised the knife for sale to collectors.  And he zeroed in on a guy in Philly who bragged about having his own Black Museum.   Steve drove out there one weekend and this dweeb started showing him all the stuff he had squirreled away before he showed him any money.  Steve’s trained eye instantly saw his Hitler stuff was lumpy bullshit but the serial killer paintings were probably real so as soon as he killed the guy with the knife he took the paintings and a couple other things. The next day the network called about the live show.  So he was going to go back to the dark web.  These creeps shouldn’t be buying that shit anyway.  And guess what, he didn’t have to sign his name in blood in a book or go to the crossroads in some Southern town at midnight.  And if he actually did make a deal with the devil it was like he told Yvonne, TV was the gig economy, he’d probably already sold that shit. Support Weekly Spooky - Scary Stories to Keep You Up at Night by contributing to their Tip Jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/weekly-spooky Find out more at http://weeklyspooky.com

Prospecting—though every salesperson hates to admit it—is the necessary evil in any business. You have to prospect to get leads in your funnel to nurture them through the process. But how you do it matters. That’s what Steve Hall—the Managing Director of Executive Sales Coaching Australia—emphasizes in this episode of Sales Reinvented. Don’t miss it! Outline of This Episode [0:48] Is it a matter of semantics?  [1:17] Why are they important? [2:52] Steve’s ideal prospecting process [5:52] Attributes a salesperson needs [7:05] Skills for salespeople to develop [7:46] Top 3 prospecting dos and don’ts [10:20] Persistence and resilience are powerful Is it a matter of semantics?  Prospecting and lead generation: They’re just labels, according to Steve. Prospecting is identifying potential customers who may have a need that you can supply and can afford to pay for it. Lead generation is looking for people in the middle of the buying process looking to buy.  In Steve’s opinion, prospecting is more important. You want to prospect for choice. If you have a full pipeline ready to buy, you won’t get desperate. You won’t try to close deals that aren’t ready or close those that don’t fit. The fuller your pipeline is, the less desperate you are.  Steve’s ideal prospecting process  Is there an ideal prospecting process? Steve’s answer? It depends. It depends on what you sell, who you sell it to, and what the deals are worth. It also depends on how big your team is. If you’re an individual, you have to do everything yourself. If you have a huge marketing team it’s different. Everyone has different capabilities. The most important thing is to understand who your ideal customer is and identify companies that fit that. Assuming that a new customer’s lifetime value is upward of $250,000, they’re worth putting effort into. So you need to do research (either you or your minions). Then you reach out to them. What do you do if someone is an ideal customer but they aren’t ready to buy yet? Do you come back in a year? Do you get them in a nurturing program? Who builds the relationship? Then you have the actual sales process. Steve has one client that has multiple people involved in the sales process: The CEO’s executive assistant does the research—with the list they’ve come up with as a team—to find out who the key players are.  The CEO or one of his staff get them on a business-to-business call. It works well for them—but won’t work for other companies. What attributes does a salesperson need to be successful with prospecting? What skills should they develop? Listen to hear Steve’s thoughts! Steve’s prospecting dos and don’ts Steve shared quite a few dos and don’ts for salespeople to keep in mind:  Prepare. Don’t just pick up the phone or send an email. Think about what you’re going to do. Targeting is critical.  Get comfortable with silence. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Have a respectful pattern interrupt to get their attention on you. Don’t use smart tricks and techniques. Everyone knows them and is used to them. Be genuine. Don’t be too salesy or too pushy. Don’t say “Hello, how are you?” Every single person does that. It says “I don’t really care how you are I just want to sell stuff to you.” Persistence and resilience are powerful Steve was working with a company trying to invest in aged care facilities. They wanted to talk to the CEO of the company they wanted to work with. The problem was that he couldn’t find a phone number for these people anywhere. Every single number for the company went to a call center! Eventually, he went to their website and looked at their press releases. The head of corporate communications had their mobile number on the press release. So Steve called him and asked him to forward a message to the CEO’s executive assistant.  She got back to him and said “The CEO is away—do you want to speak to the CFO?” Of course, they accepted, and that’s how he connected his client to this company. The moral of the story is that not everyone wants to be communicated with. But if you desperately want to connect—try the PR people.  Connect with Steve Hall Connect on LinkedIn Follow on Twitter Connect With Paul Watts  LinkedIn Twitter Subscribe to SALES REINVENTED Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

SHOW NOTES Prayer - it eludes people. The original disciples didn’t get prayer. Most of us don’t get it either. And Contemplative Prayer? That really confuses people! The modern world has lost sight of this vital practice. So Steve and Gwen set out to study, learn and even unlearn what they thought they knew about contemplative prayer. The journey was life changing. The book “Ascending the Mountain Within” is the fruit of that long journey, and today we have the privilege of hearing Joe Chambers read the book for us. Please join us! And share with your friends - it’s a book that can change how we all practice prayer. Please Note: This will be our last episode of the season. We will be on break for the summer and look forward to seeing you again for Season 6!    PURCHASE BOOK! Available on Amazon in Kindle and Paperback on Amazon   MENTIONED IN PODCAST “Practice the Presence of God.” - This phrase was coined by Brother Lawrence, a 17th century Carmelite friar. It is also the title of a small book by him which we highly recommend. Practical Guidelines - Take a 20-minute window of time to practice and experience contemplative prayer. Sacred Word Become Present Accept Distraction Release Return Savor and Return Music - An ancient Jewish Prayer - Mi'mekomcha by Rabbi Carlebach Lyrics (In Hebrew and English)   SCRIPTURE MENTIONED IN PODCAST Revelation 21:3 (NIV) and (MSG) Zephaniah 3:17 (ESV) Luke 9:28 (ESV) Luke 17:21 (KJV) Matthew 6:5-13 (MSG) Colossians 3:3 (MSG) Galatians 2:20(MSG) Acts 17:22-28 (ESV) Isaiah 30:15 (NAB) Luke 5:16 (NIV) Psalm 139:1,13,14 (MSG) Luke 4:1-11 (MSG)   SUPPORT THE PODCAST Donate Here for an individual contribution or on Patreon to set up monthly support.   CONTACT US podcast@pottersinn.com   INTERESTED IN MORE SOUL CARE RESOURCES? Check out our recommended reading, books on spiritual growth, and our soul care blog. Want to experience soul care in person? Learn more about our soul care intensives and retreats. 

Selecting strong renters can be the difference between a cash-flowing property or an alligator. Even if you can get a judgment on a tenant that owes you big, collecting on that judgment is not a guarantee.    On this episode, Steve White From RentPrep gives us the scoop on how you, as a landlord, can do the proper due diligence on your applicants to save you time, money, and headaches.  Website: https://rentprep.com/?utm_source=roofstock&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=steve-media-outreach-2021 The "RentPrep for Landlords" Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rentprep-for-landlords/id851540886 The "RentPrep for Landlords" Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/RentPrep --- Transcript   Michael: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of remote real estate investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by Steve White, founder and CEO of rent prep. And today Steve and I are going to be talking about all things tenant background check related. And we're also going to delve into some things that you can do personally to boost your credit score. So there's a lot of fun information in here. Let's jump into it.   Well, Steve White, thanks so much for joining us today, man. Really appreciate you taking the time.   Steve: Yeah. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.   Michael: Absolutely. So you're the founder and CEO of rent prep, right practice? Yes, I really want to want to dive into what that is. But I would love to get a little bit about your background first, and how you got into the space?   Steve: Sure, yeah, I'm totally on accident. I never intended to be doing background checks at all. So I, I got out of the Marine Corps, I served eight years took an opposite direction. And most of the guys that I knew that were getting out and becoming police officers, or getting into law enforcement in some way, and I sort of went the corporate america route, and I worked for a company that played a really niche role in a legal process called a replevin order. Nobody's probably ever heard of that. But…   Michael: No, what is that?   Steve: So if you can imagine, as you're driving down the road, and you see these really big, like, street paving machines, that, you know, like construction equipment that are usually like a million dollar piece of equipment, the company, if the company stops paying for it, and the bank wants that piece of equipment back, you can't just go and pick something like that up. And so if you   Michael: Take a put on a tow truck,   Steven: Right, no, it's a huge process, you usually got to break it down into pieces and ship it in on multiple vehicles. So what we were doing was arranging those replevin orders that were that had to be organized in the local municipality. So we would have to coordinate with the sheriff's department and local attorneys and, and get all this stuff organized. So I was doing that, you know, on the corporate side, kind of in the banking world and decided I could do it on my own and started a company that did exactly that. And I started it in 07, which was perfect timing for the big financial recession that happened two years later.   Michael: Right!   Steve: And, yeah, that definitely put a damper on things and made us get really creative for looking outside of the box with different business ideas. And we had a client that that basically came to us and said, hey, I've got rental properties. And you guys are using software to track down pieces of equipment and figure out where you know, where job sites are, where people might be where people might be hiding things, do you think you can tap into that or use some of that same, you know, access that you have to let me know if somebody would be a good tenant or not. And like any good entrepreneur, I said, we can absolutely do that for you before I knew how to do it.   So the business started there really what it is today, and we ended up within about two years selling, we split it up into different divisions, sold the replevin side and put everything into the background screening side. And that's really where we got our start working for usually, at that time, large property management companies, large apartment communities, mostly local, I was, you know, going around knocking on doors and trying to set businesses up.   It wasn't until we started doing, I started doing a lot of speaking engagements at like landlord associations or real estate investor associations, as I started to really see this need for these smaller market landlords to have access to really good screening. And we didn't provide any screening for them at that time. We were just doing this for bigger businesses and larger property management companies. And it seemed crazy to turn away all that business and so we created rent prep as a brand, specifically to give landlords access to really good high-quality screening that typically only the large property management companies are getting.   Michael: Interesting. And so what what type of services reports background checks, can rent prep run?   Michael: Anything that you can imagine in terms of what you would think you would normally get so we're talking credit reports, criminal records, judgments, liens, bankruptcies, eviction records, obviously, address histories, income verifications. So we can reach right into a bank account and get a an average or a summary of data to tell you what their average monthly income is so that you can do a proper income to rent ratio.   And really what makes rent prep different is that we are not always trusting the the courts or the databases to get things correct. So we will live in an age now where if you're somebody like me, my name is Steve White. There are 2600 Steve whites around the country. And in fact, probably somewhere near near you. In California, there's a middle school named Steven M White, which is my exact name. So common names are very common. What we realized was there was a piece missing when you're talking about automating data in that piece is really a human element that you need someone who's trained, who understands the FCRA, which is the compliance arm that that manages our industry, and somebody who can make decisions beyond what, you know, simple filtering can do, and really get better access to data.   So with with the way that we do our screening, we are typically able to find about 50% more eviction records that are filed than what the, you know, what can be found in, let's say, the National eviction database. And so we're in a lot of cases, going directly to the courts in searching, you know, for information, especially if it's a common name, making sure that it is the correct person, anyone that's ever ran a background check for John Smith knows that you're going to spend a good amount of time trying to, you know, determine if it is your john smith, that's a sex offender, or if it's some other john smith, that's a sex offender. So we're taking that responsibility off of the landlord's hands and saying, we'll do that we'll make those determinations, and use our trained eyes to to make sure that you're getting the correct and accurate information.   Michael: Awesome. So this sounds like a service that would be great for somebody that's looking to self manage a small time landlord. But if let's say that's me, I'm I've I have properties and professional property management. And I want to do my own property management now for local properties I own. I've never seen a background check. I've never seen what those reports look like, Is it pretty easy to decipher, and understand and digest that information? Or do I need a technical degree degree to read and digest it?     Steve: Sometimes you feel like you need a technical degree, depending on the person you're running the information on, right?   Michael: How much background they have to show.   Steve: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny, because if you get a good tenant, it's really counterintuitive, right? Like, our reports should be super boring.   Michael: Show nothing.   Steve: Yeah, right. Right. A lot of times we get calls from landlords, they're like, yeah, we ran this and nothing came up. Well, that's good. That's, that's what you want. Right? Yeah. Right. But you know, the nice thing is, again, I really my intention is not to come on, and like sell rent Reprep.     Michael: This is this great.   Steve: Yeah, this is really what what I believe separates us from a lot of our competitors in this industry is that for landlords, if they run a background check, and they just say, Hey, I don't know what this means, or I don't look at a lot of credit reports, what, you know, what is this section here? Or really, what is a good credit score, right, so we can offer interpretation. So the landlord can call and speak to the exact screener that built the report and compiled it. So that screener has intimate knowledge of exactly what's on there and helped go through the information with them. We can tell them what the average credit score is for a tenant, which is 650.   Michael: And was that nationwide?   Steve: Yeah, across the country at 649. So, and we can also dive in a little deeper and see, you know, because for one landlord and one property, you know, asking for a minimum credit score of 700 might not be unreasonable. And, and for another landlord and a different property, asking for a 700 might be very unreasonable. And so we want to know, what's the property? Like? What are your you know, what are you getting for rent? What type of tenants are you looking for? and help them try to make a good decision based on what their criteria is.   And every landlords different? Sometimes they know really well with that criteria should be sometimes they know they don't, so we can help kind of guide them in that right direction as well.   Micheal: Oh, that's really interesting. So do you guys collect then, kind of the reverse feed of data with regard to property type and locale and average rent, to then be able to offer that to landlords that come ask you that question?   Steve: It's not something that we're automating. And we're not building that into our reports, although, I feel like you just came up with a really good idea.   Michael: So that one's on me, Steve!   Steve: Right, right. suture idea? They're not, you know, it's really, you know, it's, it's in the moment when they're asking us because we're walking a very clear black and white line, when it comes to report interpretation, we've got to be very careful on our end, we can never make a decision on you know, for landlord. You should or you shouldn't rent to this person, we can only give them based on our experience and based on what their criteria is. So, you know, if a landlord says, you know, I've got this bar and it's pretty high and you know, this, this rental property means a lot to me. I raised my kids in this place, and we moved on and now we're renting it out. And, you know, there's a little bit of an emotional attachment there, and maybe they've got some higher end fixtures that you'd normally see in a rental unit. And so they want to make sure that the quality of tenant they're getting is very high quality.   We'll take that information. And that's how that's exactly how we're interpreting that report for them and saying, either this looks good, or, you know, I look at 200 reports a day. And there's a lot of red flags or risks here and this person doesn't seem to meet the criteria that you're reaching for. So usually, it's it's based on, you know, what the landlord is telling us in that moment, what they're looking for.   Michael: What would be interesting to chasing this rabbit further down this new idea hole is if you collected then eviction records from landlords based on tenants that you had screened, to be able to kind of look at the big data. And if somebody says, what are the most influential characteristics or criteria for a tenant who's going to be evicted? You can have predictive analytics.   Steve: So we do reduce sort of do that right now. There's a feature that, yeah, there's a feature that we have on our credit report, to TransUnion credit report that we're giving a score to that's called a resident score versus a traditional FICO score. And it's taking into consideration exactly like what you just said, there is there are, there are certain patterns and characteristics that people tend to follow who are either good renters and good, good paying renters or not. And so we're waiting, we're weighting those that data a bit different to to generate a little bit of a different score based on knowing that it's built for a rental.   Michael: Interesting. Very interesting. So, Steve, I got to ask the question that might be on everybody's mind. And I mean, all this information sounds really helpful and powerful. And it also sounds expensive. What is it going to cost the landlord to run some of these reports get some of this information?   Steve: Well, again, I feel like you're putting me in the sales man mode. So my sales answer is it's a lot less expensive than an eviction why, right?   Michael: The classic answer!   Steve: Right? Well, listen, you know, in our, our mantra here is always that an ounce of prevention is certainly worth a pound of cure. If you, you know, for landlords, you know, the kiss of death for any landlord is having a bad tenant, I mean, that's the difference between cash flowing positive or not, or having to put a ton of money into repairs, or having to just deal with the headache and nightmare of a bad tenant. You know, we've, we've all heard the horror stories, and a lot of us have seen the pictures that accompany those horror stories, and no, like, I don't ever want that I don't ever want to be in that situation.   So that front end, you know, due diligence that they're doing really is their best chance, especially in today's era, where evictions are next to impossible, if not impossible, depending on what the reasoning is right now. You know, this is the only chance that they have to really, really mitigate that risk is to make a good decision or the best informed decision that they can on the front end. So the cost is relatively inexpensive, and in most states, it's going to probably be less than what they're allowed to charge for application fees. Some states like California and New York, of course, it's going to be potentially outside of what you can charge for an application fee.   So it can range from 1895, for some real basic information, to $38 for a kind of, you know, the full boat of information, and then, and then you can add all kinds of things on there, like the income verification for an extra $10. And those sort of pieces, which are super helpful, because again, you're not you're, especially with the income verification, the last thing you ever want to do is take someone's word for it, or take their information and assume that it is accurate or truthful, and I'm not, I swear to you, I'm not that type of person that has trust issues and doesn't trust them.   But having having done this for a long time, I will tell you that it is far more common than you would probably think, to see doctored credit reports we've seen where the font is slightly different for the score, or you can tell that certain things have been omitted or deleted out paychecks that we've seen that are just completely fabricated. So, you know, with all of our products, we're taking that trust element out and we're you know, we're gathering that data outside of the tenants ability to interfere. So even with our income verification, we're getting that information straight from their bank, not not even their employers because a lot of employers nowadays too are trying to protect their employees information and they won't release salary information to you.   So the only way the only way around that is to go straight to the banks and and start taking a look at how much money is being deposited on a monthly basis. And we can, you know, share all that information with the landlords and tell them exactly what their income is, which may include, you know, we're also in the age of the side hustle. So a lot of people have their job plus their side hustle job and gathering some extra money. And so we want to look at the whole thing, you know, in as a as a, as a total or as a full picture versus, you know, gathering information from one employer and then trusting that they're, they're giving us accurate information about their 1099 side hustle money that's not really trackable, and you just sort of have to take them at their word what they're making on it.   Michael: Sure. Oh, that makes sense. Well, I experienced the horror story with my first tenant $10,000 in damage on the way out and small claims court eviction, the whole nine yards. So I do have trust issues. So I get it. It just, it kills me when people don't go to that level of due diligence, or they cheap out and get the basic and, again, not not promoting Rentprep or any other service, but like, just don't get the cheapest package you can. It's the equivalent of getting a property inspection, we do so much work on the diligence on the physical property, inspecting it, looking through it with a fine tooth comb. Why aren't we doing the same thing with tenants, this is the equivalent. So don't skimp on it, folks. Just pay the 10 bucks the extra 20 bucks and get it run.   Steve: Yeah do it now in a lot of times, that information that you may be skipping out on may hold the key to exactly what you want to avoid. So if you're looking at, for example, you know, property damage, and let's say that tenant that you were talking about that did $10,000 worth of damage. I'm assuming did you end up getting a judgment on them?   Micheal: We did. But collecting on that judgment is a whole nother story.   Steve: I guess I yeah, I could spend an hour talking about just collecting now. And I'll give landlord. I'll give landlord some good tips. And I'll give you a good tip too that might help you collect on that. But you know, that's a good example, like credit reports omitted judgments about three years ago. So judging is no longer included on a credit report at all.   Michael: Wow.   Steve: And it's we can thank our court system for that because no two courts are alike in the country. The courts are like the what courts are like the Wild West, it's the craziest thing you've ever seen. So you can have neighboring counties and different courts. And let's say you and I both owe money to Old Navy, we both got an Old Navy card. And we wanted to spend a ton of money on jeans and T shirts. And we just said let's do a   Michael: They've gpt great, great deals.   Steve: Right? So and then we both defaulted on the same day. And Old Navy Old Navy took us both to court on the same day. And we both got a judgment against us on the same day. And my my county court filed the judgment in your county court one county over not even in a different state, but just one county over filed that exact same judgment, same amount, same creditor all the same information, there was a very high chance that my record would end up being reported on my credit and yours would not. So only about 50% of judgments were being recorded on two credit reports which created a really unfair system, because why should I be punished for it right? In New nappy or vice versa. So right, so the credit bureaus decision was okay, the only we can't fix the courts, nobody can seem to do that.   Michael: That's a whole nother issue.   Steve: It is a whole nother issue. But since we can't fix the courts, then the only real fair thing to do here is just leave that information out omit it. And for landlords, you know, that became super dangerous, for obvious reasons of you're not going to be able to see that information, the other dangerous reasons because literally overnight, 22 million people saw almost a 10% increase in their credit score, just because of a you know, back end office move. That doesn't doesn't mean that they're trying to improve because of credit behaviors. But because we eliminated a an adverse piece of information that wasn't going to affect them negatively. So everybody's scores went up.   Michael: Wow. So in a kind of just real world example to paraphrase and make sure I understand this, if I'm I find this Navy Old Navy, credit card user and I went really crazy, like really crazy and I owe a let's say eight grand a month to old neighbor. And my income shows five grand a month getting deposited into my bank account, which is the income verification part of that I have a negative $3,000 a month habit burning a hole in my pocket, but you as the landlord or end user of that report will not see that.   Steve: You will not see any judgments just like the judgment that you have on that that tenant that did $10,000 of damage. Now obviously, as a landlord, you want to tell other landlords like, hey, beware, like, right? Don't let this guy do what he did to me. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Most landlords have that mindset of, You know, I don't want someone else to have to suffer. But unless that landlord, that new landlord is doing a judgment search specifically, they'll never know about that judgment that you got on that tenant that that judgment will not haunt them, like every tenant, or every landlord wishes that it would in your mind, in your mind when you're going through all the steps to issue that judgment and get it and you finally have in your guess, this is a moral victory. It's a principle win! It's not unless it's unless someone else is looking it up. Otherwise, it's, you know, does it exist? Does a tree fall in the woods? if no one's around to hear it? It's like, you know, is that does that judgment even really exist? If the landlord's not looking for it?     Michael: But so this is a searchable thing that that rent prep can do?   Steve: Yeah, these are civil court record searches that are now emitted from credit reports. But we can reach into the courts and pull those those records out. So yeah, so a deeper dive is certainly worth it, especially in cases like yours.   Michael: Oh, yeah. So Steve, curious to know, in your experience, what are some of those major red flags that somebody who's looking at a red prep or some kind of other background check information report, could see and look to glean and say, Okay, if I'm seeing these four things, are these three things I either need to stop and pause? Or this is a definite non starter for me?   Steve: Well, I'll start right from the application process, because I feel like almost every landlord has run into this situation where somebody doesn't want to give their information. And they're going to claim that it's because they don't want to put their social security number down because they want to keep that private.   Michael: Yep. I've done that as a renter.   Steve: Okay, so now that one or two things are happening here, and it's important that landlords understand this, too. And I'm not saying you were wrong to do that. And you may have been very reasonable to do it. And so   Michael: I'm great renter.   Steve: Yeah, right. Okay, so, perfect point. Great renters want great landlords, right? If you don't trust this person that you're giving your information to, you're not going to give all your information. So part of the what we're doing like with our private Facebook community, or even a lot of our educational content, on rent prep calm, is really talking about how to be a good landlord, because good, the best tenants want good landlords. And if you're, if you're not presenting yourself, well, you're going to run into that more often than you want to where people are closed and don't want to give you the information because they, to be quite honest, they just don't trust you with it.   So that's one thing. The other thing is, what we have seen here and learned here and processing, as many reports, as we do is that more often than not, if somebody does not want to get the information, or if they intentionally give the wrong information, which we see a lot of somebody's flip flops a social security number, or adds a zero where it should be an eight. More often than not, they're they're trying to hide something that they're doing that knowing like, I don't want them to find this information. And it's better to have a no result or can't find the result versus seeing the negative result that would come up.   So I would say, you know, for a landlord, that first red flag is going to be if you start seeing a lot of generic information on a on an application. And, you know, first thing might be check yourself, make sure you're you're not the problem is the landlord like am I am I presenting myself well, and this thing, well, my, my professional and my handling this thing properly? Or do I seem like the type of person that somebody is not going to be comfortable sharing their information with, after the after that I would say, you know, for looking at the actual reports, what those red flags might be, I would set the obvious ones first, if they have a judgment from a previous landlord on their, or a property management company. And the tip I would give landlords is property management companies are obvious, right? It'll be ABC property management or, you know, ABC apartment community or whatever. But if you just see a person's name on there, you know, if it's just a Steven White as the creditor, or the plaintiff, there's a good chance that that's probably a landlord and it's definitely worth either calling the screening company to get a little bit further information, maybe they can help and tell you what it is. But it's not going to show up always as super obvious, like a judgment from Old Navy, or a judgment from ABC property management company.   So keep an eye out when you see individual names like that a lot of times it's it's from a landlord.   Michael: Okay.   Steve: The other one is going to be their their payment history. So if you're looking at a credit report, understand that most people pay things based on priority. If I, you know, that I'm going to collect a late fee, and maybe even have my vehicle repossessed if I don't make the payments on it promptly. I'm going to make sure that I pay that car payment ahead of some other payments, like my dentist bill who, maybe he hits me with a little late fee, maybe not, maybe I can call him and talk to Nancy, you know, the office manager and talk her out of a payment, you know, late fee or something.   But really, it comes to a prioritization. So if you start seeing late payments and a shaky payment history, and it's even for things that I would consider to be high priorities, such as housing, rent, those types of things, that's usually a red flag, too, because if these are high priority items that they can't make timely payments on. That's usually a sign of distress, and not that they're creatively trying to manage their finances and choosing, okay, well, maybe I can pay this thing late this month. But this one's a priority, I need to pay it. So good. renters always prioritize the rent payment, above all else, you know, that's their housing, that's the thing that needs to get paid above their Old Navy bill or buying, you know, beer and smokes for the weekend. So you want to make sure that rent payment is its top priority.   So you're looking for somebody that knows how to prioritize, and evictions, evictions are obvious. You know, that's that probably the single most important piece of data that you can gather to show somebody prior history with renting. Now, the issue with that is, obviously have an eviction moratorium, right now that's going on. You have some states like the wonderful state of New York that I'm in that eliminated evictions from being viewed at all. So landlords cannot even look at an eviction when they're considering or doing their screener in considering a new tenant makes it really tough. It's like, you know, tying one hand behind your pack and trying to trying to fight.   So, but that eviction data is super critical, because evictions don't always you know, what the media or people sometimes portray as sort of a victim situation where somebody, you know, their kid got sick, and they lost their job, and they can't pay their rent, and now they got evicted, you're evicted. And it's tragic. Those are not the typical scenarios, you know, the typical scenario is the guy who has parties and kicked holes in the wall or flushed his socks down the toilet, and, and you don't want to rent to this person or in New York's case, they're in their mind, they're trying to protect tenants. But it's, it's so counterproductive. Because if you if you evicted somebody for being aggressive to a neighbor, or another tenant in a building, and that was the basis for the eviction, now you're eliminating the next landlord to be able to see that information and make that decision and, and putting all the other tenants at risk. So the eviction data is critical. And I would say more often than not, the evictions are not some really sad, tragic story about somebody whose circumstances were well beyond their control and they're, they're a victim of, you know, a broken system. Most of the evictions that we see are certainly well deserved. And landlords need to be aware.   Michael: Yeah. So are we entering now, a new cycle? I mean, whenever evictions, the the moratorium gets lifted, the fact that that information from this stretch of time is not going to be able to be viewed by landlords. Do you? Do you foresee a really tough next rental cycle where landlords are going to be dealing with a lot of crummy tenants because they didn't have access to the full picture?   Steve: For sure. And I would say, you know, the mindset for the terrible mindset in a lot of ways, but I know a lot of businesses have had the mindset of, this pandemic has been rough on business, obviously, some more than others. But I heard somebody say, never let a good pandemic go to waste. Like if you're going to, if you're going to try to make lemonade out of being handed a couple of lemons, you're going to take that opportunity and don't think that tenants aren't going to do the same. So anything that would have been maybe just bad, you know, bad character or bad payment history or being irresponsible now has the easy go to pandemic blame to say like, Well, that was related to the pandemic. And so, you know, you can't count that. So I think a lot of people are going to abuse that, you know, and especially when it comes to evictions, or even just simply their own personal finances. You know, we're seeing that here, pretty much on a daily basis where somebody never lost her employment never took a pay decrease throughout the entire pandemic, but as using the pandemic as a legitimate reason to be able to get out of paying things on time or taking full advantage of it, and so that's gonna, that's gonna take a while to work its way through the system for sure, unfortunately.   Michael: So how can landlords combat that or what is rent prep doing to help landlords combat that?   Steve: Well, one of the things that landlords are going to need to be aware of his credit bureaus themselves are working really hard to hide information. That was pandemic related. And again, you're not going to avoid people who abuse the system, if they're going to be out there. And it's going to happen, unfortunately, but at least you're not putting on putting it on the landlord to have to make that decision.   So the idea is, if we just hide that information, and you don't see it, the landlord can't make a mistake, and, and use a piece of information against somebody that they shouldn't have.   Michael: Got it.   Steve: So at least at least it's holding them, you know, less liable in terms of a compliance error or discriminating against somebody who they shouldn't be. But beyond that, I would say the landlord's like, like always, nothing's really changed, have really good communication, ask a lot of questions. If you see something come up on a report, or credit report or, you know, criminal record or anything, start asking questions.   It's not always a black and white thing, when you're looking at this type of data, it's not always as simple as well, they've got a criminal record. So they must be bad, we're not going to run through them. You know, people change and a lot of times, you know, they don't need to suffer endlessly for a mistake that they made. And a lot of times, they come out a lot better afterwards. And so those conversations are critical for a landlord to be able to say, does this criminal record, really truly impact whether or not this person is going to be a good renter for me or not? And a lot of times, even a criminal record with with some clarity around it may not be as concerning as it as it seems, initially. So good communications to key there.   Michael: Yeah, it's such a great point. And I know for I know, for me, too, as someone who, when I was first looking at credit background checks, that was a big scary one for me, but the fact that you could chat with an account rep at RentPrep and start to have those conversations with the tenant, it doesn't necessarily need to be a non starter, it can be Oh, let's try to understand what's going on. Because you're right, it shouldn't. People's past doesn't need to haunt them for eternity.   Steve: Right. And I'll say this, too, especially when it comes to evictions, we know that the data shows that somebody is three times more likely to be evicted again, once they've been evicted once, hmm, the reason for that is because that fear of the unknown is gone. Right? Like, if you've never gone through an eviction, you don't know what's gonna happen, like, are the police gonna come and throw me out what, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to think have, you know what the potentials are, because I don't know it. And it's scary. Once it's happened, and they know the ins and outs of it, it becomes a lot less scary.   So if you see somebody that had an eviction, five years ago, four years ago, it may not be as big of a red flag, as you might think, you know, number one, they've only had one and not three. So that's, that's a positive, right? But it's always it's always worth the conversation. If you're on the fence, if everything else looks good, and it's this one piece that you're like, I just don't feel great about this. Don't be afraid to call that person up and say, Hey, I saw that you had an eviction on here, talk me through that, what what happened there? And you might find that it was a, something that happened, that's not going to happen again, or something that they learn from and doesn't seem like, you know, it's it's a it's a pattern or something that is going to creep up again.   And so it's always worth having good communication. Background checks are great conversation starters. You know, so rank that way. Yeah.   Michael: Great point. Steve. I'm curious because we were chatting about it a little bit ago that I was someone that never liked when I was renter putting my social security number on on applications. What is the impact for a renter of getting a background check or a credit check? I mean, does that does that affect their credit score? Does that show up as a true inquiry like if you get a new Old Navy credit card for instance?   Steve: Yeah, so thank god TransUnion, who is the In my opinion, the best credit bureau the best one to work with certainly, and I think the ones who really have had their stuff together, you know, working with the all three different credit bureaus TransUnion, as has been the best one for us to work with. And about two, maybe three months ago, they passed, sweeping changes that in the housing industry for rentals that Inquiries were no longer going to be hard inquiries or affect their credit. And this was a huge, huge change, right?   Because if you live in an area like Portland, OR San Francisco or, you know, there seems to be a million of them now, even even if you have perfect credit, the chances of you applying to someplace and getting it on the first shot are almost slim to none like, most people, most people are applying to 10 different places. So and hoping that one of them hits and one of them lands, you know, so Long gone are the days where you put in a rental application with a solid background and you're guaranteed going to get it there's a real high chance that you're going to end up submitting multiple and having multiple background checks ran on you. So TransUnion saw this and and i think handled the issue correctly, which was make it a non issue, it no longer affects anyone's credit to pull their credit for rental purposes.   The way it used to be, was the same rules that applied for anything they want to do eliminate credit fishing. So if you go to Old Navy, and I'm trying to think of some tribal colloquia here and get this local stuff where so you got an Old Navy, and you get a card and Trader Joe's and I don't know, can't think of another one here, but some other, you know, department store or wherever that they're offering you, you know, credit, the Bureau's would see that as this is not good, if this person's applying for all of these things in a short window of time, it's usually an abuse of credit, it's usually what they call fishing. So if you get denied for one credit card, and then the next thing you do is apply for another one, and then another one until you get the credit limit that you want or the line that you want. That was something that they would punish people for. But in the rental industry, obviously, that's not the case, like you could very well apply 5-10 different places and doesn't mean that you're fishing, or you're doing anything weird, it just means you live in a really competitive area that there's more applicants than there is housing.   Michael: Well, that's great. And that's great information to know both as a renter, someone who's going to be potentially renting and also as a landlord to have those conversations with folks that don't want to give your social security number for fear that that that's no longer an issue.   Steve: Yeah, that was a huge deal for us. Because we would deal with a lot of inquiry disputes, which was a real, a real administrative pain for us on the compliance end of things because somebody would say, Hey, you know, I applied to this place, but I didn't think they'd actually pull my credit. And I want to get this credit inquiry off my credit report. And we'd have to go through this really lengthy process with them. And so now that doesn't even exist. It's been Yeah, it was like a real smart, one of those rare times where you're like, Man, that made sense. And in every logical way, and everyone did the right thing. I feel like that just doesn't happen all the time where you're like, we solve the problem efficiently.   Michael: And now it's working.   Steve: Yeah, right. Right. Right. But in that case, TransUnion really did get it right. Beyond that, I would think most people that their reason for not wanting to share their social security number is, you know, they're afraid of who's looking at it, what's going to happen, does this mean that my information is going to get stolen? Right, and the ugly truth that nobody wants to hear, but I see it from a different point of view working on the data side is your information has probably already been stolen. And your your information is far easier to access than anybody would ever wish or hope. That's that's the that's the unfortunate ugly reality that we pretty.   Micheal: It's pretty scary what you can find when just by googling stuff.   Steve: Yeah, yeah, for sure.   Michael: I've got a question, Steve. And then I want to wrap this up. And I don't know if there's a quick answer for this. You tell me if we need to do a homebuyer episode around this. But why in the heck, are there three separate credit agencies to begin with? Why can't we just have one?   Steve: Good question, I think so I can tell you maybe a little bit of the, the genesis of it and the reason why there's three bureaus and why the three bureaus have different scores. That's something that we hear we hear a lot like my TransUnion scores 600 but my Equifax score is 650. Like, why the discrepancy? So So first off, when it comes to scores, those are, especially if we're talking about FIFO. Everyone knows FIFO or is from the word, but FIFO is an actual accounting company. That's fair. Isaac's Fair, Isaac's companies with FIFO stands for. They're a privately held company, and they don't share their algorithm for scoring even with the credit bureaus. So nobody knows the secret sauce of what it is that that goes into it.   So the issue with so many different scores really comes from who's doing the who's doing the algorithms? And what are the what are the scores being based on? So after the big financial crisis in oh eight, the A lot of companies responses to how do we, how do we get back, you know, economically from a recession? And unfortunately, the answer was, well, we should create like a bell curve for credit scores. And so there's different FICO models that have, you could take the exact same information and put it into the model. And depending on the, which version of the FICO model that you're using, if it's an old four model, that would be from 2004, that's what they would consider to be the classic model, then there's an 08 model, which is like the recession model, so you're gonna have a much more inflated number.   And so the answer is that because there's a lot of different industries, so that's the same reason why you have a lot of different scoring models. And the same reason that you have three different credit bureaus is because at one point in time, the credit bureaus, each sort of specialized in an industry. And it's a lot less of that now, they're pretty broad. Some of them might specialize more, that's why sometimes you might have like a Verizon bill that shows up on TransUnion, but not Equifax or something like that. Or some sort of utility bill is usually what we see that shows up on some and not others. So that's the real reason, the reason that there's only three? I don't know. Those became sort of the accepted standard, and anyone else who's created anything, has not had the adoption rate that you would need to legitimize that type of information. And we've seen it over the years.   Michael: A true rating agency.   Steve: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, they've become the standard, they've they carry credibility. Lenders trust them, obviously, landlords trust them, you know, all different industries are trusting them. And so for anyone else to sort of step into the arena and want to create the same thing, it's a really, really high, high barrier to climb over because they're missing all of that credibility that the three bureaus have.   Micheal: sure they're already the three 800 pound gorillas in the room.   Steve: That's it? Yeah. Okay. You know, the one thing that I would say landlords need to be aware of, too, is, you know, I know the government right now has been talking about creating a centralized Bureau, that's something that we're keeping an eye on really, really closely in our industry, and I, I don't necessarily hate the idea, right. Like, I love the idea of standardizing as much as possible, it makes things a lot more accurate. My concern there, especially for landlords is, you know, be really interesting to see how the government achieves that or what their plan is for it. But again, I feel like there's, you know, there's a lot of missed information when you start talking about those types of things.   So what's going to be included? What's not included? Who's actually determining what information is fair or not fair. And again, you know, using New York as an example, the best example I can come up with is those evictions, you know, where New York determines that it's not fair to use them and talk to any landlord here in New York? And they'll tell you, it's absolutely insane. And why shouldn't we use that. So, you know, when you lose that type of control, then you start losing your grip on that type of information that you might be able to make a really well informed decision on. So that would be my concern with with having one central credit, credit bureau is who's determining what gets reported and what's not.   Michael: Makes total sense. And I've got one final question to kind of reward all the listeners who stuck through with us till the very end and understanding fully that we don't know what the secret sauce is, but a question I get all the time, just in life in the Roofstock Academy. How do I boost my credit score? What are some things I can do? Do you have any insight, any tips?   Steve: I do? I do. And it's it's funny, we some, you know, all the screeners here pretty much every employee here at Red prep, we look at so many credit reports we really do where it is our own badge of honor, we probably talked about our own personal credit scores more than the employees normally what. It is like bragging rights, like, Oh, I got my score up over 800 because you sort of see you see how the game is played and what you're trying to do?   So first and foremost, if you are not automating every payment that affects your score, you need to stop what you're doing and do that right now. Go set it up in your bank, or with the with the creditor, whoever it is, whether it be a car payment, whatever, if it affected their reporting, your payments, you need to make sure that you automate those payments so you can never miss a payment even accidentally. That would be first and foremost. Payment History. Bears so much weight on a score, that if you screw it up and you miss a payment, even if it's accidental, even if you have a legitimate reason, even if it's a great reason, it's going to impact your score in ways that you don't want it to. So first and foremost, automate your payments that impact your score and then prioritize from there.   Second would be careful what you apply for, don't think that you can go to five different auto dealerships and apply at five different places. And that's not going to affect your score negatively it will, the rental industry, like we just talked about is about the only industry that you can do that now, sort of fish for credit, anything else, if you do that, that's going to negatively impact your score, even if you get the credit. So, you know, if you apply for three credit cards over a stretch of three months, and you get every credit card that you apply for, that still has the chance to negatively impact your credit score, because too many inquiries for a specific industry.   So if you apply for an auto loan, a mortgage and a credit card all in the same month, it's not going to impact you, that's three inquiries. But if you apply for three credit cards in a month, that's going to impact your credit, because they're all they're all from the same industry. And then I would say, the other thing is carry, depending on your depending on your credit, if you don't have any debts, it's not always a good idea to just pay things off and close them out. So if you don't have a lot of credit bearing accounts, and you just happen to pay everything off, it's for sure a good idea to keep one or two cards, buy some stuff, pay it off monthly, just just so you can generate payment information because no information is not always good either, you know, a lack of information, lack of payment details, what we hear in our, in our industry, we call that a thin file, somebody who just doesn't have a lot of payment information seems like it would be not bad, right? Like, well, it's not bad information. So it must be good. It's not, you know, no information, sometimes it's you know, can damage your score almost as much as bad information.   So keep something you know, keep a credit card, have a low balance, pay it off, but show that you're making payments on it, so that at least it can tick that box every month showing that you're making consistent payments, if you just pay everything off, and there's no record of anything, it won't take long before your score starts slipping.   Michael: Okay. And something that I've heard is to increase credit limits. So that way you end and continue spending the same amount. So your available credit goes up. But the amount you're utilizing stays small.   Steve: Your debt to limit ratio, right, like what you actually owe, and what your limit or ability is to borrow. That is calculated. So if you can, because what you don't want to do is you don't want to be maxed out, or even close to or above 80%. Because that does start to impact your score because they're looking at it as if things go bad. What's your ability to pull yourself out of that situation? If you don't have the available credit to erase that debt that you have? Then you're you're in a bad spot? So yeah, that's a really good point. If you can get a line increase or limit increase, do it worth it. You got to be responsible. I mean, it's like a load.   Oh man I feel dangerous like giving this advice. But yeah, if you're going to be responsible, and you're doing it with that intention, not a bad idea. If you can't be trusted with credit, and you're trying to really repair your your credit, your credit score, you know, then you're good. But for some people, I feel like they, you know, they shouldn't be trusted with a two year limit. It's just yeah, it's bad idea.   Michael: That's, that's that's playing with fire.   Okay, awesome. Well, Steve, I want to be very conscientious of your time. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today and talking to us about RentPrep and just landlord screening in general, what's the best way for folks to either get ahold of you or rent prep or utilize any of the services that that you offer?   Steve: Everything's at RentPrep.com it's a super good resource for landlords to look anything up from tips on how to turn over a property tips for good showings, tips for screening, obviously, and finding the best tenants. And then we've got a private Facebook community that we're really proud of. It's about 12,000 landlords, we will actually not allow landlords, more landlords are not allowed in the group that are allowed in the group we are super picky with who gets in the group and who doesn't. Because we want to try to keep the streets clean and keep it a really safe place for landlords to go and, and share knowledge and help each other out. So there's no no selling in there. You can't be a guru and sell your latest course and that kind of stuff. We want to make sure real landlords and helping each other we see a lot of really great you know, interactions in there, like, you know, somebody has a house fire in their rental property and they're scared to death and don't know what, what's next what to do and, and you'll, you'll see, you know a handful of landlords three or five of them that say, you know this happened to me within the past year, here's what you can expect, here's what you need to do. And so it's filling in those gaps for those landlords and erasing some of that fear of the unknown for them.   So that's our Facebook community, rent prep for landlords, and then also our podcast, which is the rent prep podcast, which I'm sure you can find on iTunes and Stitcher. And we're about 300 plus episodes in tons of great knowledge there. Obviously, you should be listening to Roofstock's podcasts as well. So I'm not trying to steal your audience or anything. But our podcast is, is hosted by Andrew Schultz, who is a professional property manager. And this guy has seen it all and shares a ton of really, really useful information. And it's a it's a good podcast, if you're a landlord, who is looking for, you know, ways to manage your property better or looking to you know, what's going on in the industry currently.   So that's a good way to connect with us there and live chat call in mean, we're a real company. got real real here. seems crazy nowadays, like many people call us and say like, oh, it caught me off guard, like somebody actually answered the phone. But yeah, we're, you know, we're an old school company, you can call us and talk to somebody, you can reach us on email and live chat and all that sort of stuff. You know, we're here to answer questions. And I would even say, there's no such thing as a crazy question. Here. We get it all.   Michael: So just just crazy people, right?   Steve: Plenty of those.     Michael: Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Really appreciate it. We'll have to have you back on a future episode and take care man.   Steve: Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you having me on.   Michael: All right, everybody. That was our episode a big, big, big thank you to Steve. This was a lot of fun. I learned a ton. I'm going to be definitely putting a lot of this into practice and look forward to using a lot of these features as I look to self manage a few properties. So again, thank you everybody. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a rating or review wherever it is listening to episodes. We love Comments, feedback, additional episodes, ideas on the things that you all want to hear about. We look forward to seeing on the next one. Happy investing.   

CHRIS NEWBOLD:                Hello, friends and well-being advocates. Welcome to the Path to Well-Being In Law podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Well-Being In Law. I'm your co-host Chris Newbold, Executive Vice President of ALPS Malpractice Insurance. And as you know, our goal is to introduce you to thought leaders doing meaningful work in the space of well-being within the legal profession, and in the process build and nurture a national network of well-being advocates intent on creating a culture shift within the profession. I'm thrilled to be joined by my co-host Bree Buchanan, and I'm proud to announce that as well, and I'll give Bree a chance to weigh in here, but I also wanted to announce that Bree has transitioned from the co-chair of the national taskforce for lawyer wellbeing, to the first president of the Institute for Well-Being In Law, which is a natural Baton pass from the national task force to the Institute. She's such a great organizer and we are in really good hands with her at the helm. So Bree, welcome. BREE BUCHANAN:           Thank you Chris. When you said that, I think my heart skipped a beat. CHRIS:                 You didn't know I was going there, but I felt like that's newsworthy. And I want to make sure that that folks know that Bree is continuing in leadership. And as we launched the Institute for Well-Being In Law, she'll be such a great leader for us. And today I'm very excited to welcome to the podcast, I'd characterize him as a quiet yet influential well-being advocate, Steve Wall of Morgan Lewis, and a conversation about reducing stigmas within the law firm culture and how to overcome individual battles with disorders while maintaining a successful practice. Bree, I'm going to pass it to you to introduce Steve, and Steve, welcome to the podcast. STEVE WALL:                          Thank you very much, Chris. Great to be here. BREE:                Wonderful. Well, as an introduction, Steve Wall is an award-winning attorney and a managing partner for Morgan Lewis & Bockius, which is truly a global firm. And we were just talking to Steve before we got started and learned that there are 2100 attorneys as part of Morgan Lewis in 31 office around the world. So truly, truly global. And it's one of the top firms in the world in regards to the number of lawyers. As managing partners, Steve is responsible for the global firm's practices, industry initiatives, lateral partner recruitment, and strategic business planning. And he's also, as if that's not enough to do, he's also a senior partner in its labor and employment practice. So Steve, thank you so much for being here. We're so thrilled to have you. STEVE:                          I'm very grateful for the opportunity. Thank you, Bree. BREE:                So Chris, I'll let you get us started here. CHRIS:  Yeah. So Steve, I think one of the things that we customarily do with our guests is just talk to you about what brought you into the well-being space. And normally most of us have some type of a personal perspective that catapulted this issue to the forefront for us. And so we just love it, to start with your personal story and how you found yourself where you are today and some of the challenges that you may have faced as you built a very successful law practice at Morgan Lewis. STEVE:                        Yeah. Thanks Chris. For me it's very simple. I came into the well-being community because of my own addiction to alcohol, which impacted me from the time I was a teenager until 11 years ago when I came into recovery, and I've been in recovery ever since. For me, alcoholism has been a major part of my life as it has impacted my entire family. Both of my parents were active alcoholics until the time they passed, as were many of my grandparents and relatives. Unfortunately, two of my brothers died of this disease. And so I count myself as extremely fortunate and very grateful that I was able to find recovery at a later point in my life than I wish I had, but at least I did. And as such, I believe there is much to give back to those who helped make my recovery possible. And as you mentioned earlier, to eliminate to the extent possible, humanly possible, the stigma that surrounds mental health challenges and addiction. BREE:               Absolutely. That is such an issue. And I'll tell you, I just jumped a little bit when you said 11 years ago. I shared my recovery story in our first podcast, but it was 11 years ago that I got into recovery, also for an alcohol use disorder. And I too wished I had not waited until I was 45 years old to make that change in my life. But it is just amazing the gifts that have come from those 11 years of sobriety. D you have the same experience? STEVE:                Absolutely. It's great to know that we're siblings in recovery Bree. Because those 11 years seem to have gone by very, very quickly. But my life has changed immensely. I was what you would call the classic functional alcoholic. And while my disease continued to worsen and the personal consequences of being an addict continued to take their toll, at the same time, I was continuing my career as a big law firm associate, a big law firm partner, a big law firm leader, and literally separated my personality between the addict side of me, which was the true side of me, and then the professional side of me, which is what I wanted you to see. And as we all know when it all crashes, that separation goes away. BREE:                Yeah. And so painful. It's like you are speaking my story to that separation. And so people wonder, it's like, "Well, how can you have such an issue with alcohol and yet you seem to be just hitting all the buttons at work?" And it's hard to understand. Let me ask you, just digging a little bit deeper, what got you into recovery 11 years ago? If you don't mind my asking. STEVE:                         Sure. I realized in my thirties that my alcohol use disorder was causing problems. It was causing problems in my personal relationships. It was causing potential problems in my professional life because I would engage in behaviors around drinking which today certainly would not be acceptable. Back in the 1980s, work hard party hard had a different meaning to it than it does now. And so I, I made the mistake that so many of us that have large egos and who believe that we can control everything about our surroundings, I made the mistake in believing that I could control my drinking. And so that started about a decade long attempt to control my drinking, which had positive consequences, because a lot of the negative things around my drinking mitigated, and I wasn't doing the stupid things and putting myself in stupid positions that I had been before. But then as we know the disease of addiction progresses and it doesn't get better. And so I then found myself falling back into the types of behaviors, the lying, the hiding, the making up excuses as to why I was late or not available for professional and personal matters. And that led to about a 10 year descent into a dark state. All of the things that happen to individuals around addiction. BREE:                Right. STEVE:                          My physical health started to worsen, my ability to have strong personal relationships with people was being cracked. My professional life was at risk because of circumstances I would put myself in. And it all came down to a Sunday morning breakfast in a diner where across the table from me was my boss at the time who was then the chair of the firm and my wife. Who had gotten together, and both said, "Enough." That my attempt to divide my life between my professional life and my personal life had now ended with a two by four to my head. And I had a simple choice, which was to do something about it and to seek help for the first time in my life, or to let both parts of my life leave because that was the choice that they gave me. BREE:                I ran into that same two by four, and it is a painful wake up call for sure. And so I, why we're asking you about these things, Steve, of course, I'm sure you know the point of this is to try to, for us to share our stories. So something resonates with one of our listeners who may be starting to think there's an issue, or they're worried about somebody else and bring that light on. Just another question, you said that you started to develop some awareness that you were having this dual life and issues with the alcohol in your thirties, but then there was this 10 year period that you just knew you needed to hide it, or borough it, keep people from knowing the extent of the problem. That's certainly something that I experienced. What was going through your mind during that period of time that kept you from taking the step to get help and start getting some relief and get better? STEVE:                          Yeah, great question. And it ultimately has to do with who I thought I was as a person. And I believe that in this way, I have a lot in common with many, many attorneys. Now, we are trained to be problem solvers. We are trained to be analytical. We are cheered and given great reward for the success we have in solving other people's problems. And as a result, we developed this false persona that there is no issue that we are incapable of solving ourselves. And the single biggest factor that kept me from recognizing the depth of my addiction and getting into recovery sooner, was my inability to recognize that I could not do this myself and I had to seek help. BREE:                Yeah. STEVE:                          And when it finally became evident that if I did not seek help, I was going to lose everything that was dear to me personally and professionally, for the first time in my life, 11 years ago, I sought help. And when I sought that help, I was honest about what was going on with me, as opposed to trying to project an image of somebody who had it all together and had everything under control. And if there was one thing different I could do in my life, it would be to have that moment of grace which I had 11 years ago about the necessity of reaching out to others for help when you're dealing with mental health issues. BREE:                Yeah. I think of one word that, that can answer that question for me. And it comes down to ego of you just sort of devolve everything down into what's keeping you from being honest, keeping you from asking for help. Which is, asking for help is not something we lawyers do very well. Chris, let you jump in here a little bit. CHRIS:                     Yeah. Steve, I was going to ask, do you feel like you find yourself where you are today without that boss-wife conversation? STEVE:                          Probably not. I have worked enough in recovery with other alcoholics and addicts to know that everybody's bottom is different. Sometimes the bottom is because you get caught up in the legal system through DUIs or other criminal activity, and that's often a wake up call. And I certainly could have seen myself headed in that direction if I had continued to use. Sometimes it's health. The doctor basically says, as he said to my father, before my father drank himself to death at the age of 55, "If you don't stop drinking you are going to die." And sometimes that brings people into the rooms of recovery. But for me, it was the recognition that my efforts to keep my professional life distinct from my personal life has now failed, and that they were talking to one another and both were going away if I did not get honest with both and deal with the mental health challenges that I had. So for me personally, that was the wake up call. And I'm grateful for it. I've expressed to both of those individuals how grateful I am. I wasn't particularly grateful that Sunday morning in the diner, but since that time, I've developed a sense of gratitude and understanding of how hard it was for the two of them, neither of which have addiction issues and found it impossible to believe that the person that they loved and had worked with for decades could not control this problem of drinking. CHRIS:                   Yeah. And I think one of the things that's... We talk a lot in the well-being movement about the desire for a culture shift. And I've always been of the belief that it takes individuals like yourself who actually have a thumb on the pulse of culture within law firms that could really be the catalyst for us to significantly move forward. Right? If your boss hadn't come and sat you down, this could be a very different ending. And Steve, I'm curious on your just reflections. I think I'm right in saying that you've spent your entire career at Morgan Lewis, right? So you've seen the firm grow up if you will. And just your general impressions of how much culture has shifted per se, in terms of, again, the ability for folks to have more honest conversations about things that are affecting them, particularly in their health happiness, which we know ultimately affects productivity as well. STEVE:                          Chris, great questions. Because I joined Morgan first as a summer associate after my second year of law school at Cornell Law School. And I then joined Morgan Lewis after I graduated, and then worked for a year on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals as a clerk, and then came back to Morgan Lewis. And so, my entire adult life, my entire professional life has been with this same institution. And there has been massive change, which is not unique to Morgan Lewis, but it's a change that, over the course of the last 11 years, I've been privileged to quicken and hopefully bring to the point where we can become an example of positive mental health awareness and practices within professional law firms. The differences are many, but I would say that the key ones are, I grew up in an environment where everyone honored working really hard, really intensely, personal problems were just that, they were personal problems. If you were going through marital issues or relationship issues, you just had to deal with them. If you were going through mental health issues, well, suck it up, because that's not what our clients pay us for. Our clients pay us to work hard, solve their problems, appear indestructible in what we do. And I look back now over my time at the firm in the eighties and the nineties, and I see victims of that culture. I see people who I know, if we had been the firm that we are today, we could have helped those people. They might still be here. They might still be alive, as opposed to having found themselves in situations where they could not extricate themselves from the horror of descent into bad mental health. And I've seen many careers and marriages and personal lives destroyed by addiction over the course of the last 30 years. So the work hard-party hard culture really needs to be put aside forever, because it just makes no sense. And the stigma, and you put it Bree, ego, the belief that we as lawyers are indestructible and that nothing should bother us, that's not what people pay us for. That cultural problem has to go away too, because it just isn't true. We're just like everybody else. In fact, the intensity of our profession makes it more likely, as all of you know, from the great studies done by Patrick Krill, the intensity of our profession makes it more likely that we will suffer from mental health than many, many other professions and many, many other jobs that people have in our economy. BREE:                Absolutely. So well put. And Steve, I just want to dig a little bit more into your story, because I think that there is further lessons for people that might be listening. When I finally had that two by four to the head and decided to do something, for me, I waited too long and I ended up losing my marriage and losing my job. So I went to the other side of what you wanted to avoid. But man, when it got my attention, I threw myself into every single thing that I could think of to get better. What was part of your recovery? What helped you? STEVE:                          Yeah. There was a series of things. It started with, I knew, but more importantly, I knew but couldn't articulate it, but wife and my boss knew that I had to take a break from the practice of law and from my service as managing partner to care for myself. I didn't know what it meant to care for myself. I was always physically active. I always ran and worked out and try to keep myself in physical state, primarily, so I could continue to work hard. But I never understood what it meant to care for oneself as opposed to taking care of everybody else's problems. And so I went to rehab for 30 days, and it was at the time, in the beginning, the absolute scariest thing I'd ever done. I thought my life was over. I thought my job was gone. I thought my marriage was leaving while I was away. I didn't know how to focus on what was really going on with me. I had never dealt with the fact that I grew up in an alcoholic household. I never dealt with the sense of abandonment, of being the oldest of five children and feeling responsible for everybody because my parents were not capable because of their own illness to deal with the things that they had to deal with. So that stint in rehab helped me immensely to be able to focus on that. But what I learned in rehab was, it would have been a complete wasted effort if I didn't make recovery, the single most important thing in my life going forward. And that didn't mean that I had to leave my job or change my personal relationships. What it meant was that I had to put through the prism of my recovery, every single thing that I did from that point forward. And for the most part, I haven't been perfect. But for the most part over the last 11 years, that's exactly what I've done. There was a six month period of time where I did not travel for work. I didn't feel safe traveling. There was a, for two years, I saw a recovery coach, an addiction therapist, at least two times a week, if not more, so that I would stay grounded on what was important, My recovery. I became a member of a 12-step program, still I'm today. I did a lot of service in that 12-step program and still do today. And all of those things were designed to keep me focused on that single most important thing, which was my recovery. Because without my recovery, every single thing that's important to me would then be gone. And the mistake I had made in the 30 years prior was thinking that the other things were the most important and that I can deal with this alcohol thing if I just had time. If I didn't have to work so hard, I wouldn't have to drink. If I didn't have to deal with relationship issues, I wouldn't have to drink. BREE:                Right. STEVE:                          And what I learned was, if I don't drink, all of those things get better over time. CHRIS:                    Did you consider leaving the practice of law? Or was the aspiration to get back there, but just as a different person, so to speak? STEVE:                          I was confronted with that possibility by my therapist, multiple therapists, by my wife, by my boss. I was confronted with, "Is it going to be better for you to leave the firm and do something else?" I didn't want to, there was huge fear associated with that. And where I ended up was, that I didn't have to. Because the things I talked about earlier, things such as putting my 12 step meetings in my work calendar so that my assistant and everyone else knew when I was not available. Telling all of the partners with whom I worked and telling clients with whom I worked, that I had gone to rehab, that I was in recovery, and that I did not drink any longer. Those are the things that allowed me to continue to practice law. Because that divide between my professional life and my personal life, that the lying, the hiding, the projection of somebody who I wasn't, that all had to end. And thankfully it did end. So the clients I spoke to about my addiction, about my time off in rehab, about the fact that I couldn't travel to see them, they were incredibly receptive. And their reception and their understanding allowed me to continue to do what I do. And as time went on, I began to help them. As time went on, a number of clients and colleagues who have come to me because of addiction issues that they're facing either themselves or with family members or with friends, or with colleagues, has allowed me to give back in a way that they gave to me early on in my recovery. And that's made it... In fact, now to me, it's inconceivable to me that I would leave my position until I retire, because I now know I can do so much good by being an example of a senior partner at a global law firm who's in recovery. And by being that good example, hopefully give others the hope that they too can deal with the issue and recover. And whether they're the spouse of an addict or the colleague of an addict or an addict themselves, I now know that I can give hope to those people because they see me, who I am today, different than who I was a lot of years ago. Hmm. CHRIS:              This is a good time, I think, for our first break. But let me be the first Steve, to thank you for sharing your story. There's a vulnerability that has allowed you to share your experience in a way that I'm sure resonates with many listeners out there. And again, your willingness then to both share that in a raw account and then be willing to give back and identify and help others in similar situations. That's what we need within the profession. The ability for us to step back, reflect, but then re-engage for the betterment of our profession and how it serves society. And we certainly appreciate your willingness to come onto the podcast and share your individual story. BREE:                 Yes, absolutely. CHRIS:              Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk a little bit more about Morgan Lewis and some advice Steve has for law firm leaders as we continue to advance the well-being movement. — ADVERTISEMENT:                           Your law firm is worth protecting, and so is your time. ALPS has the quickest online application for legal malpractice insurance out there. Apply, see rates, and bind coverage, all in about 20 minutes. Being a lawyer is hard, our new online app is easy. Apply now at applyonline.alpsnet.com. — BREE:                All right, welcome back everybody. And we have, again with us today, Steve Wall, who is managing partner at one of the largest global firms on the planet, Morgan Lewis & Bockius, and have been having a really amazing, honest, deep conversation about recovery. We really want to sort of switch gears a little bit, and let's start talking about the legal system in general and what's going on in the shifts around well-being. So I know some of the things that I know about Morgan Lewis is that your firm was one of the original signatories of the ABA's Well-Being Pledge for legal employers. I know, and we're delighted to say Morgan Lewis is a founding champion, a supporter of our Institute, the Institute for Well-Being In Law. Could you talk a little bit about some of the things that Morgan Lewis has done specifically around programming for well-being? And just different initiatives in structural changes? STEVE:                          Yeah. That I think you know there's so much more that we can do at Morgan Lewis and that law firms can do generally, but I'm very proud of what we've done under the leadership of our current chair, Jami McKeon, over the last six years. We were one of the original signatories to the ABA Pledge and proud to be that. We have had mandatory training of all of our lawyers on mental health issues within the profession. We have encouraged our human resources team, our practice leadership team, our senior partners across the firm to be very active with much empathy when it comes to mental health issues across the firm. We are committed to eliminating the stigma that comes with mental health. I often, Bree, as you can understand, I often analogize it to diabetes. If I had a partner or an associate who is suffering from diabetes, and as a result had to be quite disciplined about his or her diet and needed to ensure that they were able to eat and ingest food and nutrients on a regular basis, I would bend over backwards as a leader of the firm to ensure that that individual had what he or she needed in order to stay healthy as a diabetic. And we should be doing the exact same thing with mental health. We should recognize it as an illness that is no one's fault. There is no good or bad about a person who suffers from mental health. They are not evil. They are not weak. They are not bad people. They are sick people who need our help. And the more we can do to eliminate that stigma, the more we will allow people to come forward and ask for the help that so many of them so desperately need. So that cultural shift has been a huge shift within our firm, but we also see it in some of the ways in which we act. Morgan Lewis has a very special relationship with Caron treatment centers, which is one of the country's most well-known and best addiction treatment facilities in Wernersville, Pennsylvania. We have made arrangements for many, many of our lawyers to seek treatment there. We have helped the organization financially. We have invited some of their treatment personnel to speak to our lawyers. We've made clear that if someone needs assistance, they're going to do it with our help, not behind our back, because we want to know. Other things we've done, I mentioned the training. But we've had a special relationship with one of your colleagues, Patrick Krill, who has personally met with the entire leadership of the firm, our advisory board and our management committee, which are the top leadership groups within our firm. Had a two hour presentation by Patrick Krill a couple of years ago, in which he helped us understand the types of things that we needed to do to set a culture that was conducive to strong mental health. And we have recognized we have a very liberal leave of absence policy that does not distinguish between leaves of absence for mental health and leaves of absence for physical disabilities, which we all understand. If someone needs to have surgery on their back, we understand why they can't be available to work. Well, the same is true for someone who needs to take time off to go to rehab, to go to counseling to seek psychological assistance. It's no different than that person who had back surgery and who we recognize, explicitly, needs time off before they can come back to work. BREE:                One of the things I think is just indicative of the commitment, I believe Morgan Lewis was one of the very first to create a position within the firm. You have a Director of Well-Being, and that just speaks volumes as well. STEVE:                          Yes. And Krista Larson is that director of well-being and she is fantastic. And we focus, not just on the problems associated with mental health, but we focus on mitigating mental health. So as we speak right now, some of the things that we've done with pandemic is, we started several years ago and Krista joined us. We started what we call ML Well, and ML Well is an initiative involving hundreds of our attorneys and many of our staff in which they design get togethers, they design concepts, they design webinars. And we've used that base during the pandemic to really drive opportunities for people to come together. So it might be virtual cooking classes, virtual meditation classes, virtual yoga, opportunities for families and children to come together. All of that is part of ML Well. So ML Well drives a lot of positive behavior that helps us relieve the anxiety and the pressure of our jobs. The fact that we have yoga programs several times a week, that attorneys and staff can join virtually, as opposed to encouraging them to join a happy hour or just take a drink, that's the big change. I remember as a young lawyer really enjoying Thursday afternoon happy hours because it was a chance to get away from my desk. It was a chance to meet up with colleagues. And the fact that drinking was involved was just, that's just the way it was. We don't need to do just that anymore. We still that because the majority of our lawyers have no issue with alcohol and use it socially, and they should, but for those who worry about that, or do have issues, or want to refrain from engaging in that activity, we have numerous other ways to relieve stress, to engage with your colleagues, to get to know people other than working across the table or computer from them on the client work that we do. CHRIS:                    Steve, one of the things that we are actively working on in terms of our national movement is how to most effectively measure success. And I'm curious as you think about Morgan Lewis's investment in well-being, how do you know that the commitment that you're making is having the desired outcomes, right? Obviously you invested in Krista's position with a sense that there would be, either a return on investment, or the culture shift. And I'm just curious as you think about that, how do you know that you've succeeded or that you're moving the ball forward? STEVE:                          Well, the individual examples that I'm aware of, the individual lives that we've helped better, are enough for me. I know though, for every individual person that I have been involved with or am aware of, there are many, many more who simply see that example and have sought help themselves. I'm constantly amazed even with my openness about my recovery, I'm constantly amazed at how partners and associates will come up to me, who I've known for years, and will tell me how proud they are of the firm, that they've been in recovery themselves for five, 10, 15, 25 years. And I never knew that. I never was aware that those individuals existed. And now they're willing to come forward and acknowledge it. And by acknowledging it, they're changing the culture. But there have been many, many individuals who I know would not be at the firm today, and may in fact be dead if it weren't for the opportunities and the reach out and the positive reinforcement that our firm has given those individuals. By sponsoring them to go for help, by working with them on post rehabilitation, changes in their work life, by telling them that it's okay. It's okay that you're, for example, living in a halfway house while still serving as a partner at the firm. It's okay if you have to take off every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon to go see your therapist and still be a successful associate at the firm. Those are the things that we're doing openly for those people. And then you know in any organization, people see those things. And when they see that those things are okay, it gives them a license to take care of themselves better. So I don't need to see statistics because I know that the dozen or more individuals that I've personally been involved with have reaped great benefits for dozens more who see the change in the lives of those individuals at the firm. CHRIS:             Yeah. I love that. I also imagine that you're utilizing that in some respects in your talent acquisition of the new lawyers coming into the firms from law schools. Yeah. It certainly feels like work-life balance is becoming more prominent in terms of the next generation. And your commitment, I'm guessing, is part of one of those strategies that allows you to recruit the best and the brightest into the firm. STEVE:                          You're absolutely correct. We still hire the majority of our people through the traditional summer program. I'll be at remote in 2020 and likely remote in 2021. But prior to that, we changed up completely the social events around our summer program. I ran the summer program for three years when I was a junior partner, I know the pressure that a summer program that's heavy on drinking events puts on people who don't like to, or can't drink. I know intuitively that we lost Helen, who decided not to join us because the work hard party hard culture was not for them. Well, that doesn't exist anymore. We don't sponsor those activities anymore. We don't allow those activities anymore. The activities we have now around the summer program, around our new attorney orientation, around our partner orientation, around our partner meeting, the activities are more healthy. They include opportunities to have a social drink with a colleague, but they don't include open bar for hours at a time. They don't include, the only opportunity to engage socially is to hang out at a bar, at a hotel, in a hotel lobby. They include things like mountain bike riding in Arizona, and kayaking, and having a celebrity chef come in to teach us how to cook. They include the types of things that have the exact same impact on allowing you to take a break, socialize with your colleagues, relieve anxiety. They allow you to do all that without the unhealthy behavior that sometimes comes with a drinking event. BREE:                And also to have fun. Those things that you're talking about sound like tremendous fun. Steve, just a final question, it's of two parts. Do you have some closing words of advice for new lawyers who are coming on who want to be both successful and well? And do you have any words of advice for the more senior lawyers who might see this movement as a bit beyond their experience in law or perhaps even irrelevant? What do you have to say to those folks? STEVE:                          Yeah, I do Bree. And I'm in no special position other than my own experience. And there are two things that I would change in my life if I could at this point. One, adopt and find healthy habits to relieve the stress and pressure of our very intense profession. Do something that you love to do. Whether it's physical exercise, reading, music, volunteering, giving back to others, do something that makes you feel good. There's always, always room and time to take care of yourself. No one expects you to work yourself to death, which is the direction that so many of our lawyers, whether addicts or not, find themselves in. So adopt a healthy lifestyle that allows you to both be a successful professional in an intense profession, but to keep yourself well. The second point is, do not allow the historic stigma around mental health from stopping you from doing the right thing. And I don't direct that to people who suffer mental health challenges themselves, I'm directing that to healthy people who see unhealthy behaviors in other people, but because of the stigma around mental health challenges, stay quiet. They're embarrassed for the person, they're embarrassed for themselves. They don't know what to do. And if all of us who live a healthy lifestyle and who are managing well mental health challenges, called out and reached out to those who we see suffering, we will be able to help people sooner, more effectively, and avoid so many of the horrible things that we know happened in our profession and other professions. Even to this day, even myself, as much as I know, I have to check myself when I find myself thinking about staying quiet when I see somebody acting in a way that I know is indicative of a mental health issue. I wouldn't do that. If I saw someone clutching their chest and suffering from a heart attack, I would leap to their aid and shout for help. But when it comes to mental health, even I sometimes have to check myself and say, "Why aren't you helping? Why aren't you being proactive?" And all of us should be as proactive with mental health challenges as we are with physical health challenges that we see in our colleagues. CHRIS:                   Steve that's awesome advice, and obviously I think an appropriate recipe for, again, what practice leaders, managing partners. I still remain convinced that that real systemic change within our profession will occur in the individual law firm culture. And if it doesn't change there, it's going to take a long time to get there, but it can certainly be accelerated by the steps of individuals like you, who bring that perspective about balance, reducing stigma. Certainly, we're so grateful for what you do. Again, it's the like, I could call you a silent hero, right? Because I think that you are the tectonic plates beneath the surface that I think ultimately need to occur for us to accelerate well-being in the profession. So we are just very thankful for you joining us on the podcast, sharing your story, alluding to the great work that Morgan Lewis is doing in this space. And thanks so much for joining us. BREE:                Thank you. STEVE:                          Very grateful for the opportunity. Thank you both. CHRIS:                   All right. So we will be back in a couple of weeks, and our next guest on the podcast will be Paula Davis. She's the founder and CEO of The Stress and Resilience Institute, and perfect timing for her as she'll be coming on to preview her upcoming book release. Her book is entitled Beating Burnout At Work: Why Teams Hold the Secret to Well-Being and Resilience. So we look forward to our next episode and welcoming Paula to the pod. Thanks again Steve. Thanks Bree. And be well advocates out there and continue to march forward as we work to improve our profession. Thanks for joining us.

Kash Memphis has seen more brokenness than most in his life. It was there in his upbringing, through his time in the military during overseas service, in relationships, in his body and health, even in seeking to serve God. These days he is pursuing dreams and helping others chase theirs. He’s a Christian rapper who has built his own label and coaching brand.   http://kodakpurple.com https://www.facebook.com/kash.memphis https://www.instagram.com/kingdompriest05 https://open.spotify.com/artist/4JS6JHuHiev1icOxDH13jW https://music.apple.com/us/artist/kash-memphis/1460421161 https://www.amazon.com.au/Kodak-Purple-Kash-Memphis/dp/B08KWWZLM3 https://www.patreon.com/kodakpurple       (This transcript is intended as a guide only. It may not be 100% correct.)   Emily Olsen  Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.   Rodney Olsen  Kash Memphis has seen more brokenness than most in his life. It was there in his upbringing, through his time in the military during overseas service, in relationships, in his body and health, even in seeking to serve God.   These days he is pursuing dreams and helping others chase theirs.He’s a Christian rapper who has built his own label and coaching brand. I’ll introduce you in a moment.   Please remember to share this story with others and connect with Bleeding Daylight on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Please follow Bleeding Daylight wherever you listen to podcasts. It's free and it'll ensure you never miss an episode.   Kash Memphis describes himself as a rapper dreamer, author and creative. But for so long he dealt with feelings of rejection and just not fitting in. We'll explore his story today on bleeding daylight, and will travel through some of the twists and turns that his life has taken cash. Welcome to bleeding daylight.   Kash Memphis  Hey, Rodney, thanks for having me.   Rodney Olsen  I want to start by painting a picture of your early years. What was life like for you growing up?   Kash Memphis  Well, you know, when I look back early in my childhood, one of the key words that continues to come up through my mind is that of brokenness or broken, I guess the way I would describe it as more like a desert experience, the first part of my life more like the childhood, I was called to Christ at an early age when I was about 10 years old, but went back into let's say, my living situation wasn't what typical people would think is a traditional church family, brokenness, as a child brokenness as a teenager and early adulthood.   Rodney Olsen  So you have this experience of church, but your home life doesn't reflect that tell me a bit about that home life,   Kash Memphis  I was the first person to come to Christ and my family. I felt this calling towards God. And I almost felt as Okay, maybe I'm the one that wants this. But I kind of felt like I was still alone. I had discovered this new thing, this newfound freedom, this newfound peace, I'm newly found in Christ, but I go back into this environment. There's a seed planted, but it's almost as if it's a dormant seed.   Rodney Olsen  And what about the sort of neighborhood you are growing up in? What was that like for you.   Kash Memphis  Growing up, it was more like a rural neighborhood, and a tri regional area in West Virginia, Virginia, and Maryland area, so very rural, and very mixed nature. It wasn't a town where it was majority of white people or black people, it was very, culturally different, ethnically different. In that I found myself growing up in a childhood that was ethnically challenging, I felt is almost almost as if like, I didn't fit in with my own people. I felt like I fit in more with other races than my own, not just one race. But I almost felt at that sense, like I had been adopted by the king. And I really, truly hadn't understood who I had been adopted by. So I wasn't really accepted by one sense of one group versus the other. It was almost as if I was a lost sheep, trying to discover myself.   Rodney Olsen  And as part of that growing up, were you taking on elements of of the other cultures that you are now surrounded by to try and find that acceptance?   Kash Memphis  Absolutely. So and I really love that you point that out Rodney, because one of the very first things that I ever took to was rap music. And I remember as I was younger, periodically, dreaming of man, because I grew up in a secular rap environment I grew up on Biggie and Tupac Shakur, and Snoop Dogg, and it wasn't very God glorifying music. So I had found an outlet and I don't think I really ever noticed it as a kid. But what I identified with rap music was the struggle, the acceptance, the cultural nature of it. So ideally, when I'm looking at these cultures, I'm seeing their struggle to so that at some point probably played a huge part in my life as well.   Rodney Olsen  So rather than identifying with a lot of the themes that they were bringing forward, it was more identifying with that sense of struggle that they will portray.   Kash Memphis  Absolutely, because I think where where I really struggled was for a lot of different cultures. Now, American culture is not necessarily this way anymore. But in other cultures, they were more let's say friendly to their, their elders, you know, there was still a communal guideline. And it was a way that different cultures operated. Part of me fell in love with that culture because they felt like they really loved their own people. And maybe I was asking the question of why didn't my people love me the same way?   Rodney Olsen  We fast forward a little bit and as a young adult, you join the army was that again, a part Trying to find that acceptance to be part of a movement, so to speak, where you felt that you might fit in?   Kash Memphis  Yeah. And you know, it's it's interesting how life happens, isn't it? You know how God uses us and shapes us. And we don't even really know the full grasp to that, after I'd come out of my school age years, and it was I didn't have these influences by these other cultures, what it kind of did was carried over and for me, I no longer had that influence. So I was trying to take that influence of my family, my dad, my brother, my mother, and then that was kind of my influence to join the military, because what other hope do I have in life?   Rodney Olsen  So what happened during that experience in the army? Did that turn out to be the saviour that you were looking for in that acceptance or was it something different?   Kash Memphis  I would really like to say that it was the greatest experience ever, it wasn't. But what I will say it was the most important experience in my life ever. And here's why I want you to picture a young 20 year old man who's grown, used to a life of brokenness. And then as I'm joining the military, and I'm feeling like maybe I should do what my family did, and, you know, they love to serve their country, or for whatever reason, in the back of my mind, I had this idea that I would go serve my country. And I had this idea that I would be a better person because of it. As I joined the military, I was still a Christian, not really, living the lifestyle that God requires of me, as I got into the military, it wasn't spiritually the nicest environment. But it made me grow up, it revealed a lot of things to me, as a person. For instance, seven of the 13 years that I spent in the United States Army was spent and more as I'm going through this, now, I'm really alone, I'm at war. And, you know, I have my battle buddies, and I have my comrades, but maybe I'm not necessarily the same, because I still have this spiritual struggle. And so this 20 year old is getting ready to go off to war, he's been married, he's going off to war. And while he's at war, his wife serves him divorce papers. So it becomes a very vital point in my life, where it seems everything is crashing down. Or at war, I'm losing battle buddies. This is a whole new reality. And now, I'm getting a divorce. I've been served papers, and I'm waiting to come back to the States after the war. So the war wakes me up. God shakes my life up in that any shows me truly who I am in that time. And in that experience, while fighting the physical war, the spiritual war is just starting at this time.   Rodney Olsen  And of course, being at war, you'd be seeing and experiencing things that I guess we're really not designed to see and feel and experience.     Right. And, you know, when I look back at my experience on that all of the images that it's taken years to not necessarily get rid of, but the images of maybe those who didn't return, going through survivor's guilt, going through mass casualty events and not being able to bring friends home. Ultimately, when you do end up, almost making it a career, it comes to a point where it leaves you broken, it leaves you broken from the war. Because after the war, I came back, started jumping out of airplanes, and eventually broke and destroyed my back ended up being medically retired. As I'm exiting the army, I'm exiting, physically broken, spiritually broken and at this point, it's where it takes another turn towards more brokenness.   Rodney Olsen  The USA has this great tradition of honoring those who have served the country. But I guess coming back and having to be medically retired, would really be a bit of a struggle for you in knowing that you're coming from this place where people would honor to have to leave that and again, to have to find another way of fitting in.   Kash Memphis  The way I equated to the army and serving in the United States Army is that we were family. My friends are the ones I fought with my family were the ones that I fought the war with, as I'm coming out of this experience and and going into this new reality. It's almost as if you lost your family, your job, you lost all sense of purpose, you've been told you physically don't meet the standard anymore, you can no longer provide your services here. So in that experience, I walked away from that, feeling jilted and empty handed. But I also ended up leaving as a drug addict.   Rodney Olsen  Is that something that started to happen whilst you were still in the military? Or was this your response to having to leave the military.   Kash Memphis  As I was dealing with the physical and that the army was realizing that this is a much longer term issue. And mind you, you're being dropped out of air planes repeatedly over several years. And so the back is not in the greatest. And so once it's really injured, what they began to do was at this point, pain management. And so in that point in pain management, they began to retire me. And in that process, I did not know that I had become addicted until it was too late.   Rodney Olsen  So where did that addiction lead you?   Kash Memphis  Well, I can tell you, for sure, Rodney, it leads nowhere good. I do remember as we were exiting the military. And as as all of this stuff is happening. There comes a point where we lose it all, financially, professionally, coming out of the military. Now it's beginning to erode the family. It became a point where God had to step in, I feel what had happened was, is that in the midst of our opioid epidemic amongst the United States, even going back several years ago, I don't think that our leaders had the proper knowledge to know that this was going to happen. And so maybe in my physical treatment, that's what did it. But nonetheless, I had a problem that I now needed God to deliver me from,   Rodney Olsen  And how did that deliverance come? What What was the low point that made you turn around and see God to cause a difference in that situation?   Kash Memphis  It's really interesting how God likes to intersect our lives again, because, you know, it's, it becomes a certain point in our life, where it's like, God, I need you to help me because I've done everything I can. And most of the time, it's because we have to submit to Him and allow him to do the work in us. One night, I remember going to sleep and and I was using at the time, and as a result of that, my wife had an allergic reaction for the first time, and she almost passed away, due to my negligence.   Rodney Olsen  And it's at that point, you decided that this has got to stop,     I'd like to say that was true. But two nights later, I was going to bed. And in order to understand the story, we have to go back a little bit because while I was in a military, my wife, and I have miscarriage. After this, God reveals to me in this miscarriage who our daughter was in heaven. And I remember hitting this point in saying, God, I need to understand what's going on here. I need to know what you think of me. I need to know that you're there. And I remember going to bed that night, and seeing her and my dreams. And I remember waking up the next morning and saying I can't immediately fix it. But I'm running in the right direction. And it was shortly after that. God called me on to the next mission.   Rodney Olsen  So where did this next mission take you?   Kash Memphis  When you served in the military, and you've been medically retired and you've lived the life of brokenness, and you've had different life experiences that have brought you to where you are. The next logical point for me, that God was calling me into was pulpit ministry. So I became a pastor.   Rodney Olsen  Tell me about the process of becoming a pastor coming out of this background of brokenness, to a place where you're leading others. How did that transition begin for you?   Kash Memphis  Well, the transition really began for me, kind of when I was in the military, as I was getting medically retired out I had come to a point now see, I served as a chaplain assistant, the last 11 years of my career. I had decided in my military career, I wanted to be a chaplain. And so while I was in the military, I had gotten my degree and then I was approved to go to chaplain school. Well, so That was the natural path. But when I got medically retired, that plan changed, obviously. So naturally I have this degree and I'm, I'm already accredited. And I hear God calling me to being a pastor, I seen this wealth of experience and and I had a number of people around me who were doing the same thing. And it really encouraged me that I could really make a change for the kingdom from that perspective. You know, I'm like, I can really put my mark my stamp on, this is the crescendo. This is what God called me to do.   Rodney Olsen  So you have the opportunity to be a pastor, and this continues on for a number of years. But it doesn't continue to go, Well, what what happened in that season.   Kash Memphis  At this point, I think what changes is that God has a mission for me that I truly don't understand. Because as he's calling me into the pulpit, I have this this expectation in my mind, that it's white picket fences, I'm now doing the will of God, I've got the most important job, which is leading the sheep. And it seems that from day one, when I step in the door, I mess up from day one. I guess maybe the reason that I don't know that I truly understood what a pastor was. I think I failed from that perspective. But I also didn't know what to expect, you know, so I was a young pastor, and I just left the military, I just gone through this. And from the time I became a pastor, it almost seemed as if Satan wanted to destroy me from the ground up the entire time. And when we come through some things we don't always notice when God is providing us opportunities. And so when I look in retrospect, I think about it, what could I do differently? Why didn't it go? Well, I don't think I was a good pastor, to be honest with you. I don't think I lead people well, I'd come from leading soldiers to firing bullets downrange, and church just wasn't the same. So when I walked into my first rural New York church, you know, farmland, New York, I had this idea that people were just going to support me because they, you know, the pastor was the most important person, or, you know, when when we had the commissioning, it was like, everybody loved you with open arms. But I slowly started to find out that it was hard. And then war is waged in the spiritual realm. So I learned a lot there. But if I were to, if I were to put it in a short statement, I think I was a bad pastor.   Rodney Olsen  I know that as a pastor, you're often helping people to deal with their brokenness and their struggles. Did you find it difficult that in your own brokenness that you were trying to help others with their own?   Kash Memphis  Yeah, because if we're not active in combing through our struggles, our doubts and our fears and our anxieties, and if we're not focused on surrendering those things, if we're not dealing with those things, then I think it's difficult to help other people deal with their brokenness. What I was doing is I wasn't necessarily addressing all my baggage too. So it's kind of difficult, you know, you want people want you to lead them. And they want you to help fix them. But at the same time, when you have two people who don't understand the work that's required, it becomes really difficult.   Rodney Olsen  So a few years down the track, you leave the church, and there is that sense, once again, that you've lost everything. But then there's a turning point, tell me about what happened then.   Kash Memphis  I remember exiting the church that night. And I have to admit that I didn't quite agree with where this whole thing was going. I didn't understand what God was doing. The only thing I could see was the circumstances. And I was angry. You know, God, how could this happen? How could I lose it again? Now, you know, I've lost these people that have become my church family. Now I've lost my friends. They've all turned against me. And now I feel like I have to walk my head away and shame. So I'm standing in this church parking lot. And I'm just I'm walking and I'm pacing in a circle around this parking lot. I'm angry. I don't know if I'm angry with God or if I'm angry with myself, I just kind of had this vital moment. Like when you switch the light on the severe contrast that everything that I had worked for, and it lived for what I thought I was doing right, I realized that I had become sick and tired of who I become, I become disgusted with myself. And I felt like the organizational body or the organization of the church had left me misfit, orphaned, neglected, rejected, and I have nothing but to rely on is that of God. And so in my passion, and just you know, because rap is a very aggressive form of music, whether Christian or secular, it talks about the struggle, it talks about the pain, it talks about the realness of, it strips down all the pretty curtains, and you can see everything for what it is kind of feeling. And I'm pacing the parking lot. And I just, I'm listening to instrumental rap music that I either grew up on or I start freestyling with that. And if you're not really sure what freestyling is, it's just basically sped up talking to a beat in my heart, and and then maybe my, my frustration, I said, God, I'll give you the rest of my life, I'll do whatever you want me to do, if I could just live my dream and do it for you, and you take care of my family. But that's what I want to do. And I feel like that night I got God's blessing, even in the worst time of my life. Because I truly, for the first time, found an outlet in which I could express my thoughts, not only express my thoughts, but express a way for me to say, I'm sorry, thank you a way for me to say the thing that I normally could not say, at that point in that night, I just said, God, I want to write rap music, on a rap for you, I don't even know that I'm good at. But that's what I'm gonna do the rest of my life. And I want to build this company so that, you know, I can put my music under it. And you know, I'm just, I want to live my dreams. I want to work for you the rest of my life. But I want you to just allow me to be able to have some fun with it and be creative. I'd like to rap. And God answered my prayers. That night, it may not have felt like it that night, but he did.   Rodney Olsen  So in a sense, you've come full circle from being that young boy in a neighborhood where you feel you don't quite fit in, and you're turning to wrap to to try and understand the struggle. And you feel a connection there. You're now using it as a way to connect with the struggle of other people all these years later. And to turn it into something for good. Tell us where this has now taken you.   Kash Memphis  Well, Rodney, that's a loaded question. And so I'd have to respond by saying this is that once, once I started down that point, and all of this starts coming together, I realize God takes me back. Right before I began writing Kodak PowerPoint, he calls me to a 40 day fast with him, you know, I'm supposed to pour my blood, sweat and tears into it. And during that time, God really opened my eyes. So spent three weeks working on my music and you know, giving him you know, 110%. And then the last week I did a traditional fasting, you know that the Bible says don't boast about it, but I'm not telling you this to boast about me. I'm telling you this to boast about God. But when I spent that time with him, one of the things he revealed to me was, he left Moses in the desert for 40 years. It took him 40 years, to prepare them to enter the promised land. You know, at this point, I'm not I wasn't even entering 40. But I was going through my read, see. And what he revealed to me is that like that little boy, in that time was that all of my life, he's allowed me to experience the brokenness of human. I mean, you know, not like him because I'm not perfect, but I really identify with broken people. And really, because of my story, because the brokenness that I walked through goes so deep. I look at it and I say, Well, God had it not been for this brokenness, what I be prepared for now. The little boy that was broken, the soldier that was broken, for the marriage that was broken, and all of the broken things. I was allowed do live my dream. As I'm living my dream, I realize it's gonna take a little bit more work. And as I'm finishing up some music during this fast, a friend calls me and I, I just finished up recording as a friend from my military days. It's interesting how it comes full circle. The chaplain that I was serving with in Afghanistan, had asked a favor of me and he said, Hey, I would really like it if you could train my chaplains and my chaplain assistants on area operations overseas, because I have had a number of years deploying and I was highly experienced, and say, Well, yeah, I'll go ahead and help you. So after this is done, he knows of what I'm doing. He says, Would it be helpful if I get our unit to write a memo for you so that, you know, we can just express that you're professional, that things that you did, maybe that'll help you down the road? So well, Steve, that would be okay. So Steve calls me the next day. phone's ringing. I'm like, yo, what's good, Steve? He's like, hey, there's a change of plans, man. I thought we had two weeks. But I need you to do it today. And so that I was flexible. I said, no issues, Dave, I can I can get you there. So I do the training. And afterwards, he he's sending the memo over from the military. And what's really interesting about this military memo, is that when it comes to military memo, it's almost like its own language. And so it's very guided, it's very directed. But there was five bullet points on this memo. And while the other four are important, they're not as important as the fifth point. So I'm reading the memo. And I get down to this final point. And this is the part in my life, where I realize I should start taking my dreams a whole lot more seriously. Because God found a way to intersect with me to prove he is faithful to prove he is just because that last bullet point on that memo, would have never appeared on military memo. But it says, we recommend Brian Havens my real name, or we recommend Kash Memphis, for whatever he wants to do. And in that moment, God just invaded my heart, with love. And with an understanding, I thought, I have life. But to bring it full circle. It's like I felt like this is part of a releasing point where he confirms everything that I've been dreaming of and been working towards,   Rodney Olsen  You're now are running your own label. And you're also working with other people to help them release their dreams. Tell us about that experience for you.   Kash Memphis  When I started this dream, I had the idea in my mind that the company would be named missiology. And that is the case. But when we, when I started that dream, in missiology basically means living on mission. You know, whatever you're doing, just as, you know, you can use that for kingdom. It's a missiological lifestyle. But what we're doing by that is the idea is that I started living my dreams when God called me to when he called me to them. And so it is my belief that when I walked into that mission, I wasn't only doing it for me. But I was doing it with the expectation that missiology his mission would be to awaken dreamers and sleepers to live out their kingdom purpose, and then provide them a roadmap to accomplish it. As we talk now. That's actually our reality. The first of the year, I started up my coaching program, that means I'm coaching people to live out their dreams. I'm coaching people, to have a little bit of fortitude, to push into their kingdom purpose, to seize the opportunity that God's called them to. Because while he says in Scripture, in these days, he will pour out visions and dreams on his on his people. I think the part that we don't acknowledge when we read that is that we're responsible for those dreams and we'll be rewarded for living them. So I've dedicated my life to living for Jesus while I predominantly write and perform rap music wherever anyone will have me but part of getting people to live their dream is also being able to lead from the front. And so that's what we're doing through coaching Through the many other things we do in this theology,   Rodney Olsen  What has been the reaction to your music? You're talking about struggle through that and struggles that you faced? Are you getting feedback from people that it's actually helping them to deal with their own struggles?   Kash Memphis  Absolutely. Let me give you an example. My music is played in 62 different countries, the response that I'm getting is phenomenal. A friend of mine from the military sent me a message the other day and said, Hey, man, I love what you're doing, I appreciate you, you are going to be able to go places no one else can go. And the reason I share that is because God is providing me opportunities that I never thought I would be in position to be here had I not start chasing my dream, had I not start living out what I felt God had purposed me for.   Rodney Olsen  It's a real different change to this young man that we heard about at first. And I'm sure that life still has its struggles, it has its ups and downs. But knowing that you're living this dream, obviously makes a big difference in your life.   Kash Memphis  It does, it does. And you know, even as I sit here, and I'm talking to you, I just have the relative sense that that God still wants to do more. It's a sense of being found in being surrendered in my purpose. It's not so much anymore, that I'm unhappy with me, and I'm unhappy with where I'm at. Now, I've focused on my relationship with Jesus, I've allowed him to guide me in love instead of walking away in bitterness and that's been really formative, but to see where I'm standing now, and then look back at all the little places where he gave me like GPS, turn left here, do this, it really gives me the sense that, Papa, you love me. And when you say you died for me, you weren't just joking. When you say, you, you've got dreams, and you've got plans for me better than I could ever understand. I take you serious. I now feel like I did when I was once 10 years old. When I walked up, and I received Christ at this Baptist camp, this church camp that day that God called me when I was 10 years old. I felt as if I could walk into my purpose, with my head held high. Knowing God's sent me with authority.   Rodney Olsen  Your music is available through Apple Music through Spotify, and all sorts of other places if people want to track that down. But if people are wanting to find out more about you to get in touch, what's the easiest thing for them to do?   Kash Memphis  The easiest way to get in touch with me Rodney would be either through social media, kodakpurple.com is up. That would be the primary way right there. So if you if you can't reach me there, contact me through social media and I'll be sure to return every contact.   Rodney Olsen  And I'll put some contact details in the show notes at bleeding daylight dotnet so that people can get in touch and and hear more of your story. But cash Memphis, it has been so good to talk to you. Thank you for sharing some of your story, where God has brought you from and is taking you to and we look forward to hearing more about you in the future. Thank you for your time.   Kash Memphis  Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure and a blessing man.   Emily Olsen  Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others. For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net      

Welcome back to the show! Today Steve has special guest Amy Tiemann on the show to talk about a whole myriad of topics. Amy is a powerhouse investor in the Austin/San Antonio areas and is looking to finally crack the 1,000 unit mark with her next deal. So Steve of course, wants to talk about her origins, he trials and her successes that happened along this road. Tune in and find out about this amazing investor!Please remember that Steve loves to answer your questions and help you overcome your fears. A really easy way to get in touch with him while keeping a safe distance is through email. Send your comments, questions and concerns over to AskSteve@GetRealWealth.com so that he can start working with you today, for FREE!

You can only spread hope if you've got it. So Steve asks two questions: Do you have hope? Are you willing to spread hope? If you don't have hope, Steve tells us how to get the rock-solid confident hope and assurance. And then he talks about the incredible things you can do with that hope - and how to increase and deepen it even more. Then Steve challenges us to share the hope - and tells us ways to spread and inject hope, even in difficult situations.  

It's episode 50 and it just seems appropriate that in this episode Klaas talks with the unstoppable Steve Larsen about Work/Life Balance Steve's origin story Asking the right questions Self belief and the failure myth Agreeing to the pain   Bio: When Steve and his wife were first married, their financial resources were very limited. Heartbreakingly, he went to his father and asked for money. His father said, “Son, no. If i give you this money now, you will not exhaust the resources you didn’t know you had.” It was one of the greatest gifts his father ever gave him, to not give Steve a handout. So Steve took off running. He read entrepreneur books, consumed courses a,d podcasts, and got around the right people. He launch company after company. Each one failed, until he started thinking differently. That’s when he found Russell Brunson and Click Funnels. At the feet of this brilliant marketing giant, he learned and crafted his own approach to making money for new and existing businesses. If you work through the process, money is on the other side.   Find: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larsenstephen/ https://www.facebook.com/stephenlarsen1 https://www.instagram.com/stevelarsenhq/ https://www.instagram.com/stevelarsenhq/

It’s Friday 11th December 2020, on tonights show we are joined by Steve Day, a lifelong Oxford fan who will be giving us some insight into their season so far, where its all going wrong for the pre-season promotion favourites and how expects the teams to fair tomorrow. We’ll also be going over previous matches between the two clubs, players who've played for both and making our match predictions. Quick look back at Blackpool's exit in Papa John’s Trophy on Wednesday 0-0 and losing 5-4 on pens, Robson missing the crucial spot kick. Guest interview - Steve Day Why are you an Oxford fan? How long have you been going for? First - last - best - worst Match Manager Stadium About Oxford United Oxford currently sit in 21st position in league one, P15 W4 D3 L8 and on 15 points. *show table* So Steve, given you were league one promotion favorites, are you disappointed with your start to the season? Would you say you’re in a false position? Current form of P6 W1 D3 L2 - but if we look over the games, you have credible draws against the better teams in the league. *show form* How do you rate your current squad compared last season? Can you see Oxford putting a run together and climbing the table and were do you expect to finish at the end of the season? Your thoughts on Blackpool youth reject manager, Kal Robinson? For the Ox he has a win rate of 38.5%, games played P143 W55 D42 L46 What style of football can Blackpool fans expect to see from Oxford and what are your strengths and weaknesses? Who do you see as Oxfords key players and danger men *Show squad* Cameron Branagan - Ex Liverpool acadamey, someone Critch will know well Matty Taylor - Striker and local boy James Henry - consistently bangs them in Head to head Blackpool won 15, drawn 7, lost 11 Last seasons matches, both 2-1 At Bloomers *show stats* - Ryan Edwards' header and Armand Gnanduillet's penalty won it for the Seasiders, while Josh Ruffels struck for Oxford before half-time. Any memorable matches - to both They played for both Daniel Agyei Gary Briggs Ben Woodburn Gnando Listeners give more Prize draw Art of Football comp Match predictions How do we all think tomorrow game is going to pan out

0 (0s): Good morning. Welcome everybody. Let's all stand together, Lord. We thank you for this morning. We thank you for providing us reign. We pray that you'd be here with us, that our worship would be pleasing to you. 1 (31s): for all that you've done. 1 (3m 15s): gray. 1 (4m 5s): for all that you done for me? Jesus. 1 (4m 46s): For all that, you've done. Fool. Oh, razor razor, razor. 1 (5m 31s): me. humble ourselves worthy of 0 (14m 52s): Praise and honor, we worship you this morning. Pray in Jesus name. Amen. So like for the past eight weeks Charlene's been here and she's really polished at getting you guys to talk to one another, but I'm back. And so it's okay to be awkward. You just got to turn around and make friends, you know, it's a time to fellowship. Amen. 0 (15m 32s): Amen. All right. Good morning. Harvest Church good morning. It's a rowdy bunch this morning. 2 (15m 44s): It has it's. It's nice. It's a little chilly outside, but nice and warm in here. Hey, just want to say welcome. Glad you're here each and every one of you. Thanks for joining us online as well. Hey, if it's your first time joining us, I just wanted to let you know that we have a gift for you. If you go over to the info center right here in the breezeway between the lofts and sanctuary, we have a gift for you. We would love for you to fill out info cards. Find out more about you, just ways to plug in and just got a couple announcements. First one is the Thanksgiving baskets. Food baskets are being collected by next Sunday. Next Sunday is your last day to turn those in. So there's a list where we're just trying to love on the community of the families in our community that, you know, need a little extra help this Thanksgiving. 2 (16m 30s): So if, if, if, if you've got, if you're willing, there's a, there's a list of different food items that we're trying to collect, and that will be due by next Sunday, November 20, November 15th, next announcement. And we have this sisterhood night of worship, and that will be just Friday, November 13th at six 30 here in the sanctuary. And that is for women of all ages all the way from they said grade school to grandma's are invited to come for that. It's going to be worship sharing a fellowship and fun details can be found at AGU harvest.org/sisterhood. And it's, it's gonna be a great night. I'm excited for you. Gals. 2 (17m 11s): Next is just a few opportunities to plug in and we have some, we have a welcome team, cleaning team, kids, ministry, team safety team, and then, and then a group host or facilitator. There's all different ways to plug into Harvest Church and to get connected, you can, you can find out how to connect by going to our app or a website and plug it in that way. Dave gave me this little sheet. There is a volunteer for holiday wind ensemble as well. Dave has all the details on that. I just have a simple slip of paper. So talk to Dave, if you're interested or do you have the skills to play in the wind ensemble? I do not. So I should not talk to Dave about that. And then lastly, we Wednesday is the veteran's day. 2 (17m 53s): So we want to honor those who have served in our country. And so if you have served, we actually asked you at this time to stand up both in the loft and here in the sanctuary, just come on, keep standing up, standing, remain, standing, remain standing. We want to just take this time. We want to take this time to honor you and thank you for your service. And let's, let's just say a moment of prayer, all right, for them, Lord, we thank you for those who have served, who have put their lives at risk to protect the freedoms of those. They, they, they haven't even known Lord. 2 (18m 33s): We thank you for all those in, in this room, at home, in a line and, and throughout this country, Lord, and what do we do? We lift up this country to you at this time, Lord, with all the craziness in our, in our nation. Lord, we just ask for wisdom and direction. Lord God, thank you for those who have served in jesus' name, we pray. Amen. Thanks. You all. That's all. That's all I got. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. 3 (19m 2s): There are flannels all over the building today, all over the campus. It's a flannel Sunday. Isn't it? It's it's been kind of cold. Hey, you notice we got some of our plumbing back in place, so that's good, right? It's good to good to have plumbing in a developed nation. It's good to have money. So we have one of the think Mike Apadaca for coming in and making sure that the black top was all fixed for us so we could drive in and out and here. So thanks to Mike and thanks to rich Brown and his crew for getting the plumbing done. They're still working on it, but we have plumbing in this building and in the loft and in the U building, we do not have plumbing yet in the parsonage, but we're getting there. So be patient with us. We we're, we're just, it's just a slow process, but the water main is fixed and the sewage line is fixed. 3 (19m 48s): And so things are getting better. We'll get rid of the port-a-potties this week. So that'll be good. Porta-potties are great if you're at a fair, but they're not growing or a carnival or something. Hey, since we've had such a wonderful time with our plumbers recently, I've got a plumbers joke. You guys ready for a plumber's joke. So this guy hires a plumber. He's got a leak under a Sikh under his sink and the guy the plumber shows up and he's underneath the sink and comes out after about an hour. And he hands the guy that hired him, a bill for $400. And the guy said, man, I'm an attorney. And I don't make that kind of money. You've been here for less than an hour. The plumber said, yeah, when I was an attorney, I didn't make that kind of money either. 3 (20m 33s): Do you guys get that? It's it's bad. Right? Okay. Good. Somebody gave that to me. I did not pay them for that joke though. So that was, that was good. We had the title of the message today as we get into Colossians, chapter three is how do we 4 (20m 48s): Follow God's word? How do we, how do we follow God's word? That's the, that's the, the million dollar question as we open up, God's word, how do we follow it? How do we do that? So let's go ahead and stand up. But we're going to pray and ask the Lord for gifts to give us wisdom as we open up the scripture. And so Laura, we want to know, we want to know how do we follow your Word as we open it up on a regular basis and try to find instruction, therefore, our lives. So often, it's just hard to walk it out. Lord, easy to read about things, hard to live it out Lord. And so I know it's my desire, and I know that it's our desire as a church to want to be able to live it out. We want to know what it means to follow and how to do that. 4 (21m 30s): So Lord, I pray that there would be really practical tools given to us today, practical and helpful tools that will give us the ability that capacity, the understanding how to, how to actually follow your Word. So God as we open our hearts and minds to that, I pray that there would just be a download from heaven God that whatever blinders we have on would be, would be would, they would just fall off Lord like cataracts. They would just fall off our eyes, Lord, whatever hardness we have in our heart around the word. And just maybe our lack of understanding about how to walk it out or our frustration with it. Lord, I pray that that would just go away as well. 4 (22m 10s): That would just melt away in jesus' name. And our hearts will be tender and ready in our minds to be excited. And we'd be hungry Lord for the things for the word of God, for the things of God. And so help us, Lord, we pray. Thank you for your presence here today. God we've already felt it in worship, Holly. That was just so powerful and so good. And, and I am praying that the balance of the service has we open up your word would be, would be the same, would just be powerful and good. And then as we wrap up with more song God that it would just, it would just put a big old exclamation Mark on this day and give us the grace to follow you and to trust you wholeheartedly. So bless us. We pray, help us. We ask Lord in Jesus name, amen. 4 (22m 51s): You can be seated and you can be, 3 (22m 53s): How do we follow God's word, number one, we're going to get right to the first point. We have to understand what the word says. When I say the word it's capital w God's word. We have to understand what the Bible says. That's, that's kind of where we, we have to start. We have to understand what it says. We're going to get into some pretty tough texts today. If you've read ahead, you, you know that it's, it's difficult stuff that we're going to be talking about today, but it's not impossible stuff. It just requires that we understand what the word says so that we can do what the word says. So we're going to do our best to explain what the Bible says about these areas of submission 4 (23m 34s): And that this text is talking about today. Nobody likes submission really. I mean, it's difficult. I kind of grates against our flesh. When we have to submit to one another, whether it be to a boss or to an 3 (23m 46s): Elder or to a spouse, we don't really run toward the idea of submission, but it is God's 4 (23m 55s): Best plan for us. 3 (23m 57s): It is absolutely God's best plan for us when we understand what God means when he tells us to do certain things. So out of the gate, I'm just going to jump into Colossians chapter three, verse 18. We're going to take a few minutes to talk about 18 and then 19, and just, and just unpack the whole chapter all the way to chapter four, verse one. That's what we're going to end up today. It says this 4 (24m 21s): Wives, you know where I'm going, right? 3 (24m 25s): Submit to your 4 (24m 27s): Husbands. 3 (24m 31s): So no tomatoes. That was wonderful. Thank you for not throwing tomatoes at me. Cause I didn't write this. I'm just happened to be preaching it today. Wives submit to your husbands as is fitting for those who belong to 4 (24m 45s): The Lord. 3 (24m 47s): I'm just going to say, and I wrote out some things because I wanted to make sure that I say that I say them properly. This is the proper order. Two things. When it comes to husbands and wives, we can't apologize for that. And we don't actually have to apologize for it. When we do, when we do what God asks us to do the right way, he's actually got a plan. He didn't just throw this out there, spitballing some, some random idea about marriage relationship. He actually has a plan that he wants us to understand for our marriage relationships. So this is the proper order to things. When it comes to husbands and wives, we can't apologize for that because when done right, there is nothing to apologize for. 3 (25m 33s): So wives submits, she submits not as one who is inferior to him. So we're not talking about superiority versus inferiority. We're not taking, talking about position. We're just talking about order of things, the order of things. So she submits not as one who is inferior. So I want us to understand that that women are not inferior to men. 4 (25m 56s): And anyway, do you hear me? 3 (25m 59s): Women are not inferior to men in any way 4 (26m 3s): Way. 3 (26m 6s): So she submits that as one who is inferior to him, nor in violation of a Christian ethics, but honoring her husband's responsibility and authority as head of the household. So God has actually placed men in charge of the household. And so that's the order of things. And we're going to understand more about what that looks like as we unpack this text, the amplified Bible says, wives, be subject to your husbands out of respect for their position as protector and their accountability to God. So men are actually what will be held accountable for our relationship with our spouse in way that we lead our wives. So wives be subject to your husbands out of respect for their position as protector and their accountability, accountability to God as is proper and fitting in the Lord. 3 (26m 57s): So God has made the man head of his wife. We don't have a slide for this next verse, but it says this first Corinthians 11 three says, but I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ. So men have a head who is Christ. The head of why of a wife is her husband. And the head of Christ is God, is there is there is God superior to the son. No they're equal. They're equal in God, they're equal in the Godhead, but yet there's an order of things. There's a submission there where Christ is submitted to the father. And we see that throughout his whole earthly life in ministry, we see him constantly submitted. 3 (27m 40s): He said, I only do what the father tells me to do. I only say what the father tells me to say. He is completely submitted, even though there's total equality at the Godhead totally equality between the father, son and the Holy spirit. How do we follow God's word? We have to understand what the word says. This is the order of things so that there can be peace and leadership, proper leadership in the home. If there's no clear leadership, strife and unrest is the result. I've seen this over and over again where there's a weather where there's a lack of leadership. There is always strife in the home. There's strife and unrest in the home when there's a lack of proper leadership, but where there is godly, loving, humble leadership, there is peace. 3 (28m 30s): So when I think of healthy male leadership and marriage, I think of pastor Ron D I do. You guys have been married for 40 years. He's got a great marriage after 40 years of being married. And if you look at Ron's life, so I've been working with Ron for about 12 or 14 years, pretty full time here at the church. And so I have a, I've had a chance to watch his life for more than a decade. And I've been so impressed with his leadership. So while Ron is the head of his household, he is so incredibly gentle. He's gentle and strong at the same time, his gentleness and his strength makes it easy for his wife DJ to submit to him most of the time. 3 (29m 14s): I'm sure even DJ has a hard time submitting at times, but because Ron is gentle and strong at the same time, it makes it easier for his wife to submit to him. Ron is also gracious. He is humble, he's loving and he's fun. And Ron is the same person in the office that he isn't at his home. He's, he's just, he's just faithful through and through. He's a godly man full of grace. That means he extends grace. And so because all of these things are true, it makes it easier for his wife to submit to him. I would say that Ron is a great model for us as men, as husbands, man, we will do well to model our leadership after pastor Ron. 3 (30m 2s): I think it's just helpful to have a real life person that we can look to and model our leadership after our role, as leader of the home. 4 (30m 12s): All right. What does submission look like? 3 (30m 16s): And what does submission look like? Wives are to submit to their husbands as long as submission, as long as submission doesn't cause disobedience or compromise to God and his word. So women have a responsibility to submit to their husbands. As long as that submission doesn't violate their submission, their ultimate submission, 4 (30m 34s): Two God 3 (30m 38s): Wives are to submit to their husbands voluntarily. It should be done as, as an active obedience to the word of God, to the person of God. And I also want to say that even as wives submit volunteer voluntarily to their husbands, they're not to submit to men in general that that's not what the Bible says. It doesn't say that women are to submit to men in general. Now, if there's a leadership thing that requires a woman to submit to a man, that's fine. But there's also times when there's there's men who need to submit to the leadership of a woman. What the scripture is talking about here in Colassians. It's not saying, Hey, women are submitted to, or to be submitted to all men. 3 (31m 21s): It says that women are to be submitted to their husbands. That's what the scripture says. So the wife is to submit volunteer voluntarily to her husband, not to men in general. This is kind of what submission looks like. Submission is not to be abandoned when the husband makes a mistake. In other words, per perfection is not the make or break factor. When deciding to submit, sometimes women will submit as long as their husband is doing well or making wise choices, your husband is not going to be perfect. I'm a husband for the last 30 years. I can, I can tell you that we're not going to be perfect across the board, but even when in our imperfection, it's important that wives submit to their husbands, trusting that the Lord is leading the man. 3 (32m 3s): Even if he's making mistakes, there's ultimately God's plan we'll we'll we'll come to fruition or we can trust that God will will help. Even when our husbands are making mistakes, even when men are making misses. 4 (32m 16s): I hope I said that correctly. All right, husbands, you're next? You thought you were getting off the hook today, right? You were so on the hook today. So 3 (32m 28s): Even as I talked about the role of a godly husband and, and, and pointing to Ron, as an example, husbands verse 19 says you're to love your wives and never them harshly. What if you love your wife as Christ loved the church and never treat her harshly, she won't have much problem submitting 4 (32m 48s): To you. She just won't. 3 (32m 51s): She is won't most, most women want to submit to a godly man who loves them and treats them well. The amplified Bible says this in Colossians three 19, husbands love your wives with an affectionate sympathetic, selfless love. That always seeks the best for them, Then that good man, we have this huge responsibility as leaders of our home to make sure that we're leading the way that God would have us to leave and do not be in a lead in the way that God would have us to lead and do not be in bittered. The amplified continues do not be in bittered or resentful toward them towards your wife. 3 (33m 34s): Because of the responsibility 4 (33m 35s): Marriage, we have a huge responsibility is as husband. 3 (33m 42s): How do we follow God's word? We have to understand what the word says. Number one, number two, we have to approach the word with humility and teachability. As we rely on the power of the Holy spirit to give us the grace to follow. This is part of the deal. We will never effectively follow God's word. If we don't approach the word of God with humility, with teachability, relying on the power of the Holy spirit to give us the grace 4 (34m 8s): To follow. So husbands, if you're having a hard time, loving your wife, pray, pray, and then obey. 3 (34m 19s): I'm going to give you a 14 different ways that you can love your wife. 14 tangible ways that you can love your wife. So get out your pen. 4 (34m 29s): So I write this down and I, 3 (34m 35s): We should've put your name in the, in the place of love. So I put love is love is love is 14 times. And so I'm going to say for me, I'm going to put the, my name in there. So where it says love is patient. 4 (34m 49s): I'm going to say Steve is patient. Alright. Mike is patient. Rod is patient. Larry is patient. Love is patient. Love is patient love is patience. It requires a great deal of patience to express the kind of love that God would have us love our wives with we, we have to be patient. Yeah. 3 (35m 17s): With our spouses. They're different people than we are. They think differently. Not worse, not better, just different 4 (35m 24s): Love is patient. So put your name in there. I will be patient love is kind. Steve is kind, that's my, that's my directive, the Lord that I will be patient. And I will be kind. When you figure out how to be kind to your wife, the sky's the limit, your, your marriage will be amazing. Some men are just jerks to their wives. We don't treat our wives the way that they deserve to be treated. We must be kind to them. 4 (36m 6s): We must absolutely be kind to our wives. So Steve is kind, love is not jealous. Love is not boastful. Love is not proud. Love is not rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable as guys, sometimes we give ourselves permission to do all of these things. We've had a rough day, so I'm irritable. 4 (36m 47s): You don't have permission to be irritable. So when you're irritable, acknowledge the fact that you're irritable and get over yourself because God is bigger than your irritability. I'm telling you from experience. I used to be more irritable than I am now. I'm not perfect, but I'm not quietly. Quite as irritable as I used to be right, is I recognize that I can't be irritable to my wife and expect her to lovingly submit to me. And I can't be irritable to my wife and expect to have a good marriage. She's not, it's just may have an okay marriage. We may get by and not go through a divorce. 4 (37m 29s): But as that though, the high water Mark that we want is that we, we just want to not divorce. Holy cow, their marriage is meant to be delightful and wonderful and life giving your spouse is actually meant to be your very best friend, the person that you want to be with more than any other person. 0 (37m 57s): Yeah. 4 (37m 57s): And yet we're irritable and rude and proud at times. If you catch yourself in that place, catch yourself and don't give yourself permission to be in that place any longer. Maybe you need to take a longer path home, but drive home so that you can kind of get all of the junk from the Workday out of your system. Pray through, say, Lord, I'm going to, I'm getting ready to go home. And I don't want to be irritable. When I get home, I've had a terrible day. I don't want to carry this into my, my home life. So you pray on your way home, turn off the radio. When you pray or turn on Christian worship music and you worship, but out of your system, but you can't go home irritable 0 (38m 39s): Or rude and expect your marriage to be good. You want your, 4 (38m 44s): We should be good. Do you want your sex life to be good? Fix 0 (38m 46s): All that stuff. I'm telling you, 4 (38m 49s): Everything gets fixed. When you go home with the right attitude, 0 (38m 56s): It's not irritable. 4 (38m 57s): It keeps no record of being wronged. Keeping a ledger, mentally, emotionally in your hearts, 0 (39m 7s): Keeping 4 (39m 7s): A ledger of all the time did you've been wrong? Burned that thing. It is. It is like a cancer in your relationship. Love keeps no record of being wrong. Love does not rejoice about injustice, but rejoices when the truth wins out. So love does not say I told you 0 (39m 28s): So 4 (39m 31s): There's no room for that kind of garbage in our relationship. That kind of ah, love rejoices. When the truth wins out, we're not trying to catch each other misstepping or making a mistake. We're not trying to catch each other, doing the wrong thing. We're trying to catch each other, doing the right thing and celebrate that leverage choices when the truth wins out. So when you see your spouse doing something, that's great. Thank them. And praise them for that. 0 (39m 59s): Spouse makes you breakfast. Say thank you, 4 (40m 6s): Your spouse, presses your underwear. Say thank you. Say thank you. Just be grateful, 0 (40m 19s): Right? Have 4 (40m 19s): An attitude of gratitude with everything in your relationship. Just say, just say, thank you. Thank you. Goes a long way. Hey, thanks babe. For making me a lunch. 0 (40m 29s): Right? Thanks 4 (40m 31s): For irony. My shirt. Thanks for keeping the house clean. I noticed you. You cleaned the house today. Thank you. Hey, thanks for taking such good care of our kids by really appreciate how you love our grandkids, 0 (40m 47s): How you invest 4 (40m 48s): In them. That just means so much to me. 0 (40m 49s): Thank you for that. Acknowledge out loud, 4 (40m 54s): The wonderful parts of your partner acknowledge out loud to them and let them know how much you value them and care for them. Love never gives up. You say I've tried all of this stuff and it just keeps backfiring. Keep going, keep going. Pray for a tender heart for your spouse and women wives. When you, when you begin to see your husband change and begin to adopt some of this truth, this revelation from the, from God's word, man, run to it. The ways that I'm asking men to love their wives, wives, I'm asking you to love your husbands the same way. So while I'm putting them in on the hook here, I'm also putting you on the hook. 4 (41m 37s): Your marriage will be amazing. It will be better than it's ever been. 0 (41m 44s): 4 (41m 50s): 30 years of marriage. I tell you, our marriage is better than it's ever been. 30 years. Sometimes we think it just kind of winds down till we die. Just kind of like, Hey, it started out good. It's this kind of white, white wine itself down. No, man, it can be ramping up. Never gives up. Never loses. Faith is always hopeful. Love endures through every circumstance. I wish I could say I made all these up, but they're right in first Corinthians 13, first Corinthians 13 helps us to understand what it means to love one another. 4 (42m 31s): This is the way that God loves us. And he said, I love you this way. Go and love others this way. How do we follow God's word? We have to understand what the word says. It means we have to crack it open. We have to get that Bible opened up every day and understand what it says. And even if you're only reading a little bit, get it in your heart, get it in your mind. We have to approach it. We have to open up God's word. We have to get into it with humility and teachability, not checking a box saying, Hey, I read my proverb of the day or my Psalm of the day. I check the box. What did it say? And what did it speak to your soul? 4 (43m 12s): What does it speak to your spirit? Approach it with humility and teachability is we rely on the power of the Holy spirit to give us the grace to follow. I say this all the time. Everything that God asks us to do in his word requires the supernatural power of the Holy spirit at work in us to get it done. I can't love my wife this way, this way, unless God's loving through me. And last I'm also experiencing the love of God this way and acknowledging and recognizing it that his, he is so patient with me. God, God has never been rude or irritable with me. 4 (43m 53s): He just isn't. He's just not that way. He challenges me through the Word and through the spirit, he'll convict my, my, my life of sin of bad judgment. He'll he'll challenge me, but I never feel beat up by the process. I'm always like Lord. Yes. Thank you. Right? That's that's we don't have to roll over with our spouses, but man, when we, when there's time to bring correction or challenge or a hard conversation, but it needs to be done with love. Don't be irritable. Won't serve your purposes. It won't won't help your marriage. Next first we're done with husbands and wives. 4 (44m 37s): Can we all breathe? There's enough there to last us for the rest for the next 30 years. Amen. Children obey your parents for this pleases, the Lord children obey, always obey your parents for this pleases, the Lord. And then the kids are like, God got it. I thought I was going to get out of this and not have to be held, held accountable here. What does obedience look like? As far as it pleases the Lord children always obey your parents as far as long as it pleases the Lord. If a parent is asking a child to do something immoral, illegal, the child has absolutely has absolutely has the responsibility to disobey, to not do what their parents are asking him to do to do this is God's design. 4 (45m 26s): This is what I think God's design is. God's design is that godly parents would lead well. Their children with integrity, humility, kindness, and good boundaries. And by the way, those 14 things, you can love your kids the same way you love your kids the same way. Let me read that again. God's design is that godly parents would lead well, their children with integrity, humility, kindness, and good boundaries so that children will grow up understanding godliness and the biblical difference between right and wrong parents. You want to lead in such a way that you parents, you want to lead in such a way that you would want your kids to grow up and treat and raise your grandchildren the same way. 4 (46m 12s): I've got five grandkids. And I want my kids to raise my grandkids really well. And they're doing a great job by the way. 0 (46m 20s): 4 (46m 27s): Parents in such a way that your kids though, they may disagree or not understand. Now we'll be able to one day see that you were right. So right now they don't have the capacity to, to see the reasons for the decisions that are made. They just don't. They don't, they don't see any more than, than we understand all of God's ways for, for the way that he parents us. We just don't understand. We don't have the capacity. So don't parent haphazardly. Don't love conditionally don't have favorites or show favoritism, be consistent, be humble, be loving, be gracious. 4 (47m 9s): Verse 21 says, fathers do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged. It's tough to parent. It's tough to figure out how to parent kids who are going through adolescents and going through hard stuff. It's tough to parent, little toddlers who were getting into everything. It's tough to parents, kids through all of their stages of life, but God's grace will give us the ability to do it in such a way that they won't be discouraged. They can get corrected, but not be discouraged. They can, they can have boundaries, but not be discouraged. They can understand, even as a, as a young child, they can understand. 4 (47m 53s): And through adolescents that they're being disciplined because they are loved. They're being raised in a, in a loving atmosphere, Ephesians six, four in the amplified, it says fathers do not provoke your children to anger. Do not exasperate them to the point of resentment with demands that are trivial or unreasonable or humiliating or abusive, nor by showing favoritism or indifference to any of them in difference, but bring them up tenderly with loving kindness in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 0 (48m 28s): Okay, 4 (48m 28s): This is heavy stuff. Isn't it? It's like really strong directives for us in our relationships. It's not easy stuff, but it's what the Bible says. And if we give it an opportunity, we'll have great families. And maybe you're here today. And you say, man, I've already blown it. It's too late. Start doing all of this stuff now with your adult kids, with your, with your grown kids. And if it's too late and they just don't want to have anything to do, we do with you just let the grace of God wash over you. Just repent of it. We've all sinned and fall short of God's glorious standard. So just say, Lord, I, man, I wish I would have, I I've. I limit some of the things that I did as a young parent Lord. I wish I would have raised my kids differently. 4 (49m 8s): In some areas I do God's grace was sufficient and they turned out really well, but I'm wishing, I wish I would've done some things differently, but God's grace is sufficient and I've had to go back and apologize to my kids. For some things. My daughter brought it up recently a few years ago, we, we all sat our kids, my wife and I, we sat our kids down. I forgot we had done this, but she brought it up to me and we sat and they were all adults at that point. And we just apologize for any pressure that we, we might've put them put on them as, as pastors, kids, kids have enough pressures without having pressure from because of what their parents do. Holy cow. 4 (49m 49s): And so we, we weren't sure if we had put any undue pressure on them, but we want to make sure that we apologize in case we had. So we said, well, we don't, we don't know if we did a great job with you guys. Well, I'm sure we made some mistakes. And so we just want, we just want to say, sorry, will you forgive us? And, and there was grace extended there and, and health restored, maybe in areas where health needed to be restored. So maybe you've made mistakes. You have, if you're human, you made mistakes. You do, you have a pulse. Yeah, you do. You've made a mistake. So, so just be humble and apologize for that and watch what the Lord will do to restore relationships. 4 (50m 32s): Maybe you've got a broken relationship with adult kids that have been going on for, for decades. I grew up with an absentee father, absentee father, and he was just, he was gone my whole life, some, a couple of times growing up and, and he's, he's kind of in his own way. Apologize. It has been helpful. It's kind of acknowledged, you know, and he made some knucklehead moves along the way and, and in his own way, he's kind of apologized and that has to be good enough. Right. And he's listening in dads. So that's, Hey dad, that's good enough. He always listens to my sermons, talk about him. 4 (51m 16s): And he's like, Hey, you probably didn't want me listening in today. Did you? I said, no, I want you to listening in dad. So in his own ways, he apologized for his own past mistakes. And that's good enough. We need to extend grace because even some of the policy, some even sometimes we don't even know how to apologize. Well, but if we can just get to the heart of what's being tried, we have, what is being said is just extended grace, your relationships with your parents and your grandparents and your kids and your grandkids will just be better. Children will have a much easier time obeying if they're obeying good and godly parents, not perfect parents, but good and godly parents. And they'll know the difference. They may not understand it now, but as they get older, they will understand the difference. 4 (52m 1s): Children. Even if your parents aren't good and godly, you still need to obey them. 0 (52m 7s): I do 4 (52m 10s): Obey them with humility, with humility and trust as you obey God's direction for your life. No perfect parents. So trust the Lord as you do his will. All right, let's get off the family a little bit and talk about slaves. 0 (52m 29s): How much time we have, we got time. 4 (52m 32s): 22 Colossians three says slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything that you do, try to please them all the time. Not just when they are watching you serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord. So slavery in our culture is not really a thing. Although in the, in the world, it's a thing. It's a, it's a very real thing. One commentator wrote while slavery is certainly undesirable. And I would S I would add slavery is not just undesirable. Slavery is it's it's deplorable. No person should own another person. The commentator wrote while slavery is certainly undesirable undesirable. 4 (53m 14s): Paul goes, Paul's goals did not include restructuring social institutions. So we often wonder why didn't Paul directly attack the institution of slavery. Well, God had other goals for him. This is what I wrote. 3 (53m 30s): God's goal. Isn't always to restructure social institutions. His goal is to make disciples who will through their godliness point, people to a better way of living. And in that call some to the work of restructuring social institutions. 4 (53m 44s): Well, my thoughts go to William Wilberforce, 3 (53m 49s): William Wilberforce, as a British politician, philanthropists, and leader of the movement to abolish the slave trade and native of York Shire. He began his political career in 1780, eventually becoming an independent member of parliaments in 1785. He became an evangelical Christian, 4 (54m 9s): Which 3 (54m 9s): Resulted in major changes to his lifestyle and a lifelong concern 4 (54m 13s): For reform. Yes, 3 (54m 17s): God is first and foremost concerned for the reform of individually 4 (54m 23s): God 3 (54m 24s): God is concerned for the reform of individuals. And he knows that the reform of culture can follow. As individuals are reformed. Paul's major concern was not restructuring social institutions. His major concern was the discipleship of 4 (54m 38s): Men and women. And 3 (54m 40s): Out of that, out of that, God would call people to reform social 4 (54m 45s): S social issues. And so 3 (54m 51s): Some of you are called to reform social injustices, and some are called to other things. And I would just ask you to figure out what you're called to Paul understood what he was called to. And he kept that in his sights, 4 (55m 6s): Listen to what he wrote 3 (55m 7s): In first Corinthians seven, seven through 24, 4 (55m 11s): He said, 3 (55m 12s): Verse 17, excuse me. He said, each of you should continue to live in whatever situation the Lord has placed you and remain as you were when God first called you. This is my rule for all of them 4 (55m 24s): Churches, for instance, a man who was circumcised 3 (55m 27s): Before he became a believer, should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised 4 (55m 35s): Now 3 (55m 37s): For it makes no difference whether or not a man has been circumcised. The important thing is that he keeps God's commandments. Yes. Each of you should remain as you were, when God called you, 4 (55m 47s): Are you a slave? Don't let that worry you. But if you get a chance to be free, take it. 3 (55m 55s): And remember, if you were a slave, when the Lord called you, you are now free in the Lord. And if you are free, when the Lord called you, you are now a slave of Christ. God paid a high price for, you said, don't be enslaved by the world. Each of you, dear brothers and sisters should remain. As you were when God has called, when God first called, 4 (56m 14s): How do we follow God's word? We have 3 (56m 16s): To understand what the word says. We have to invest our heart and mind in the word, and we have to do it. We have to approach that Word word of God with humility and teachability is we rely on the power of the Holy spirit to give us the grace to follow it. Number three, we have to believe the Word that we have a master in heaven. Often. We don't believe that this is true. We're going to see this in the text. We have a master in heaven, and we have a Lord in heaven. We come to faith in Jesus. If we confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in our heart, that God has raised him from the dead. We shall be saved. If we confess the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that's the first step of being saved. Confessing the Lordship of Jesus Christ. We have a master in heaven. Who's, who's telling us how to live our lives, and it's not negotiable. 3 (57m 2s): It's not a pick and choose scenario. We read the Bible, we understand it. We do what it tells us to do. That's just the way God designed the scripture for us sees everything. And he knows everything. And he's just in fare. And he's given us things to do hard things to do. These are, these are not these. This has not been an easy text to preach through. These are hard things that God asks us to do, and they require real heart change, real transformational change so that we can align our lives with his word back to Colossians. Paul wrote work willingly at whatever you do as though you were working for the Lord, rather than for people. 3 (57m 48s): And so we're not in a slavery economy of slavery situation in our culture, but we all have employers. Most of us are working and we have people that we work for. So we can overlay this verse in our risk, in our responsibility to our employers, work willingly at whatever you do as though you were working for the Lord often, we're like, I'm not, I'm not doing a good job because I don't like my boss as a Christian. That's not, that's not even an option as a Christian. That is not even an option. You have to work as though you're working for the Lord. Christians should be the best possible employees in a, in a workplace often. 3 (58m 33s): It's not the case though. Christians aren't having good erect. We don't have a good reputation in the workplace because sometimes we can be lazy or we, we excuse our behavior because we don't like our boss or the circumstances. Listen, we need to work as though we're working for the Lord, rather than for people remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward and that the master you are serving as Christ. So it's not just a Sunday morning. I submit to God scenario. It's a 24 seven. I submit to God scenario. It's 24 seven. Like I always submit to God, that's the goal like the Lord I'm going to submit to you no matter what. So whoever I'm working for, I'm going to submit to that person and work for them as though I'm working for you, Lord, because you're my, you're 0 (59m 22s): My master. First one, 4 (59m 25s): If I, but if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you've done for God has no favorites. And then our last verse, Colossians four, one masters, be just and fair to your slaves. Remember that you also have a master in heaven. So there's two sides to every coin wives. You gotta submit to your husbands husbands. You have to love your wives. Following those 14 things that I talked about in first Corinthians from first Corinthians 13, 0 (1h 0m 3s): 4 (1h 0m 7s): We have this powerful responsibility and powerful opportunity to align our relationships in such a way that God has honored in such a way that divorce isn't an option divorce isn't even on the table because we're so in love with each other, that it's not even something that we would consider. It's not always easy to follow God's word, 0 (1h 0m 33s): But 4 (1h 0m 33s): If you will try to understand it and approach it with humility and teachability, while relying on the power of the Holy spirit, to give you the grace to follow, we can trust that our master in heaven will take care of all of our needs. So some of us are married to hard people. 0 (1h 0m 55s): So this stuff isn't easy. 4 (1h 0m 58s): I don't pretend that it's easy. Everything that God asks us to do requires the power of the Holy spirit at work in our lives. It's doable when we've got the power of God at work in us and with us and through us, it's doable. It's doable. All of the impossible things or the seemingly impossible things that we read in scripture are doable. When the power of the Holy Spirit's at work in our lives, all of these things are possible. All of the things that God leads us to do in his word from Genesis to revelation are doable and possible. When we rely on the power of the Holy spirit, when we're approaching the word of God with humility and teachability filled with the Holy spirit. 4 (1h 1m 40s): So maybe you're here today and you just need a fresh infilling of the Holy spirit. I'm just going to pray that over us, that we'll be freshly filled Ephesians five talks about our need to be constantly filled with the Holy spirit. Somehow we leak, I guess we leak and we need to be refilled. So I'm going to pray that the Holy spirit will fill us to overflowing so that we can have the capacity to believe God for the things that he's instructed us in his word. Does that sound good? Go ahead and stand up. And if you're here and you need a new filling of the Holy spirit, just raise your hand. I'm not gonna make you come forward, but if you're here and you just say, Lord, I pray for those whose hands are up. God my hands are up. 4 (1h 2m 23s): God I, I feel like I need it like multiple times throughout the day. I just need to be refilled. Somebody cuts me off on the freeway and I'm angry and I need to be refilled. Lord, forgive me for that. Lord does have a bad thought, Lord, forgive me for that Lord. I'm up against a hard situation. I need to be refilled with the Holy spirit. God, do you know the scenario of everybody's life here? The relationships that they're in, the problems that they're face, the difficulties that they, that they're up against Lord. I just pray that each, each person would just feel in a real, tangible it, if possible, just physically and spiritually, that we would feel your presence. 4 (1h 3m 8s): Just filling us with grace and power to do what you've asked us to do. Lord and, and belief and confidence and faith Lord in the things that you've asked us to do, believing God that ultimately it will, it will, it will be good for us Lord. So God, each of us, we, we have our hands up and we just ask God that as we stand here, prayerful Lord, that you would fill us and that's, you would continue to fill us daily as often as we need it. Lord God for the task, for the responsibilities in front of us, God help us to be great husbands and great wives and great employees. 4 (1h 3m 53s): Great employers, Lord, help us to be just incredible Lord. And as we trust you with our lives, Lord God, as we worship, help us to worship Lord in spirit and in truth. And I there's just something powerful that happens when we worship, when there's just, there's just an anointing, a filling that happens, Lord, I just pray God that you would fill us and anoint us for your good works. The good works that you've called us to today. Pray that none of us would be overwhelmed, but we just have the strength to do it. We'd have the faith to do it. So help us, Lord. We pray. Thank you for this time. Lord in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Let's worship 1 (1h 4m 36s): was ballroom God has the with the melody, with deliverance from me. 1 (1h 11m 13s): I'm no, Lord. 1 (1h 15m 19s): It's only by some crazy miracle. It's hard for us. We receive Steve Bray. We asked for your power to walk in your ways to live. As you want us to live to love people. As you want us to look, we asked for your power this morning. We thank you. We praise you Jesus name. Amen. 1 (1h 16m 0s): Thank you guys for coming to church today for tuning in online, have a great week.

GEORGE:  Alright, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the mind at George. It is free for all Friday, and I am picking everything bagel seeds out of my teeth today. And I'm excited because Travis is going to be talking and I'm going to be enjoying the flavor of this bagel for the next 45 minutes. And I have no idea why.But I went on a bagel kick this morning and I couldn't buy one. So I bought three. But today I am super, super excited, added to be joined by my guest who has an amazing bio. You can just Google it because it's phenomenal. And I would take the whole episode for me to read it, but it's somebody that I've actually known of an internet stock for probably four or five years. And it wasn't until our amazing mutual friend, Zach Benson introduced us. And so today I have Travis Chappell and the reason that I love Travis above everything else that he does besides the two podcasts. Amazing software working with the top entrepreneurs in the world is that Travis gets it. And when I say Travis gets it, he gets that people matter over everything else.And he has built his mission, helping people connect with people and not having them feel like you're a snake in the grass or kind of just in it for a deep transaction. And so that's the best intro I could give him. So Travis, welcome to the show.TRAVIS:  George what's up, man. Thanks so much for having me.GEORGE:  Do you have such a good podcasting voice? I can totally get it now. I love it. TRAVIS:  It's the mic. It's the mic setup.  GEORGE:   That's what I say. I was like, I'm still learning how to play with the audio tool so I can make myself, like, I want to be able to give myself a British accent, an Australian accent. And then like have that deep tone. Cause I feel like when you have one of those accents, you just sound 10 times smarter than everything else. TRAVIS:  True. It's actually psychologically proven. Yes. GEORGE:  I make this stuff up, but it's probably cause I heard it somewhere and that's how the neuroplasticity of my brain works. So one of the questions that I always love to start with, and I'm actually so interested to hear your response to this one.So the first question I ask is when you look back at your career and you've had quite a career. What was the biggest mistake or the biggest lesson that you've learned and what'd you take away from it and apply  nowTRAVIS:  I'd have to say that the biggest mistake that I've made is pushing things off and procrastinating. I ended up kind of be that type of a person in general, even like, you know, thinking back through school and in college and all that kind of stuff. It was just, I was always working best under pressure. You know, if the project's due tomorrow, I'm up the night before and I'll knock it out and I'll get an a, but I'm going to procrastinate till the very end. And so that's definitely something that I've had taken away from my entrepreneurial journey, because it bites you in the ass if you do it too much, you know what I'm saying? Like it no longer is a matter of,, well, it. You know that's one of those reasons. I think school is not a total proper preparation for what life is because there was no really there was no really con there was a real consequences to me waiting till the last minute to do a school project, except for that, you know, I'm up until 2:00 AM or whatever.That's really the only consequence which is that's not that big of a deal to you in college. You know what I mean? So like you can make it happen. You get an a, and you move on, but. The thing is in your entrepreneurial journey. If you sit on ideas too long, people will just start doing them.You know what I mean? Like didn't lose, you can lose time. You can lose a lot of money. You can lose influence, you can lose attention. There's so many things that that you lose by continuing to push things off and specifically the big thing I'm talking about is my podcast. Because man, if I would have just started it around the same time that I thought about starting oneI'd be a year ahead of where I am, which at three a week would be, you know, an additional 150 200 episodes, which would be an additional couple hundred thousand downloads, which would be an additional, a certain amount. of Followers and audience and attention and more money. And like everything would have been on a faster timeline if I started faster. And so I think there's a lot of people that just kind of sit around and wait for some magical day when everything's going to align. And it's just never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to happen.So you just gotta decide how important is it to you? That's really the big question. Like you shouldn't just get started with everything that you think about or else you'd be doing your thing. But how important is it to you? And if it is really important to you, then do it now. Like it started now, regardless of if it's a messy action, action at all is better than no action.GEORGE:  You know what, man, I so much, so much, there's probably like a stoic novel of entrepreneurial wisdom that just got pulled out of that answer. But the thing for me is like, you've talked about the podcast. It took me nine years. Like I wanted to launch my podcast in 2011. And, you know, what's not says I had a Heil, PR 40 microphones sitting in my room closet for eight and a half years, and I still don't use it, but at least I have a podcast now. But I literally, I've never used that microphone. And I kept it as a reminder of like, you know, when you do something like you've got to trust yourself and go all in, because I think about it and I'm glad I didn't like for all the right reasons. Like, I've learned a lot of lessons I'm in a different place now, but. It's actually really interesting because even now successful entrepreneur, when I launched this podcast a couple a couple months, we're doing amazing, but I had the same fears I had come up nine years ago. They didn't. They, you know, they didn't feel any different, they didn't taste any different, but I had a different set of tools in my toolbox and I was like, yeah, this doesn't matter, right.I actually was going to unpack it for you. So it's like, when I think about that, you know, as an entrepreneur, I think a lot, one of the times we sit here on the other side, we talk about like, Hey, you know, don't wait, don't wait, don't wait. And it wasn't like a brick in the face that hit me with that.It took years of learning. Like every time I missed because the consequences of waiting aren't immediate. There's like a very slow drip and fallout. And so how do you, like you said, when you talked about it, like, make sure it's important to you. Like, how do you vet, like what's important to you versus like, does this move the needle on the business? Is this for my personal tank? Like how do you go through that process? And then what's the first step that you do to do something. TRAVIS:   To me, it's the rocking chair test, which is something that Tony Robbins talks about a good amount and really resonates with me for whatever reason, but really quick, before I do that, I want to touch on something that you mentioned. You mentioned the Heil PR 40, and for those listening, that's like four or $500 microphone, a really nice microphone.  and when you're first starting out podcasting, you don't have to have something like that. And what I find to be a common denominator, George, between people who take action immediately and then actually stick with it versus people who go out and do something like that, where they like bought this microphone.I think the big difference there is you're taking action with the things that are the most fun parts of the task at hand. And I think that some, I think that if you're like, if you're going to take action, you should start it. Taking action on things that are going to move the needle, not necessarily the things that are emotionally most, you know, emotionally the coolest thingsabout the new venture that you're doing.You know what I mean? Like don't, don't, don't worry. Like if you're, if you just like, man, I just really want to buy this microphone, like, cause you know, and we all know that we're not logical creatures. We make decisions by emotion and we justify with logic. So it's like, you know, I really want this microphone, but I wouldn't really, it. So then you're, you're, you've decided that you want the microphone. This is now your logic is going to work and being like, well, but if I do this and I start this podcast, that's going to make money and then I can make money back on the microphone that about. And like you're finding all these reasons. So you go out and you buy the microphone, you're super excited about it. And then you like set it up or maybe you don't set it up. But but the point is saying is like, Don't just do the things that are fun about the new thing that you're trying, or the action that you're taking. Like do some of the things like, you know, buy the course before you buy the microphone and educate yourself, work on yourself internally, make yourself get up at 5:00 AM for the next seven days and work for one hour on your new thing.And then reward yourself with the fun stuff, reward yourself with that microphone records and episodes into your laptop. Audio, have it be a crappy as can be, but it's a, if I can do this for 30 days in a row, then in 30 days, I'm gonna go out and I'm going to get a microphone. I'm rewarding myself. I think that  plan of attack is going to keep you in the game a little bit longer and prevent you from spending money on a bunch of stuff that you never use.But anyway, back to the original question here, uh, so the rocking chair test, that's something that I use to decide if I should attack a new venture. As entrepreneurs, we all kind of have that shiny object syndrome and, you know, I'm 28. I've only been doing this entrepreneurship thing. Well, basically I've never had a job, so kind of it since forever since I was supporting myself at, you know, I got married when I was like 21. So since I was 21supporting myself. And in that time, period, I don't know how many things I've tried out. So many things that I've tried. And it's gotten a lot more clear over the years.  butI think that testing period was really important because it just helped me work through some different things and figure out, okay, well, I don't really want to be doing this.This isn't something that I'm like super great at. I don't really believe in this product that much. And it like brought me all the way up to this point. And now as I look at new ventures, it's really important to sit and take a second and say, how important is this to me to have accomplished at some point in my life. And I think that the rocking chair tells helps me do that. And so that's basically what it, is imagine yourself at 90 years old, 95 years old, sitting on a rocking chair on your front porch, looking back at your life and ask yourself if I do not do this thing. If I do not pursue this new venture or in this new direction, will I regret that at some point? And I think that not enough people ask themselves that question. And I think people are two are more afraid of failure or of regret where, to me, I'm way more afraid of having regret when I'm 90, then then failing a bunch until I get to 90, you know, knock on wood. But yeah, I think the, I think that that test is really is really a big thing for me.It was a huge thing when I started the software stuff, man, cause I mean, it was a big leap. We've spent a good amount of money in dev work to get this thing up and running, just to see if it's something that people even want. And that was a big, I'm not, I'm not a SAS founder. I'm not a software guy. I'm not a developer myself. It's it's a big risk to take on this brand new venture that I know little to, nothing about just because I thought I had a pretty good idea about it. When I sat there and asked myself that question, like if I look back in, you know, even if it's not, when I'm 90, let's say it's 60 or 70 or 50 or whatever.When I look back on this time in my life, will I regret not doing this? And the answer is just always overwhelmingly a yes, it was just like, I'm going to always look back at this moment. And , if none of my other dreams come true, especially if none of my other dreams come through, all the goals and the things that I'm working toward in life, if those things don't come true, I know, 100% for sure that I'm going to look back on this moment and be like, man, what if I just would have tried that software? That would have been the thing. You know what I mean? Like that, that would have been like, I could have, I could have sped up this timeline. I wouldn't have to go do this thing now when I'm 68, but I don't want to be doing like, you know what I mean? When I really look at those new ventures, new opportunities, I always ask myself. If I don't do this, will I regret it? And if so, how extreme, like how extreme will that regret be? You know what I mean? So, um, uh, that's, that's kinda how I vet out those new ideas. Sometimes.GEORGE:  That's good. I've, I've actually, I've heard it. I've never heard it explained like that. Well, it's a really, really simple concept and it's funny too, because you know, for those of you that don't know. So Travis has two podcasts, has been killing the game, entrepreneurship that working all this amazing thing. And then Travis is like, I think there's a better way for podcasters to do certain things. I'm going to launch a software, which is the opposite of like the shiny dopamine hit that you talked about with like buying the new microphone, right?You went the other way. Right. And I think, I think Travis, like you nailed it. Oh, it was for me. Right. It was the illusion that I wanted to do something, but I hadn't laid the foundation.Or built the container strong enough to hold myself accountable. Right. And so like for me now I know myself, right? Like I'm successful, but I also know my backdoor. So the moment I have an idea, I know if I'm going to do it, I have to post it publicly before I do anything or else I will find 8,000,064 different reasons just not do it. So I like I'll go live on Facebook podcasts, but Hey guys, just so you know, this is coming in like the next 30 days.And I have to like, put that accountability out to put in that work. Cause I think too. The undertow of what you said when you answered that question about the microphone  was gold and then the rocking chair test, and then the software that you're launching the venture too. I think one of the things that's underneath it, and you said it right without saying it is that. Success is not this big thing. It's the combination of these little things. Things that we do every single day. I mean, you're, you're going from everyone, like sees us off where program lash like, Oh, I'm so stoked. I'm so pissed. They're charging me so much money. I'm like, they've been working on that for four years. Like four years. You didn't know it existed.Paying for it, paying employees, devving it, you're buying it UX and all of it. And so. You've been working on this software, it's coming out actually soon. It might come out by the time this year podcast comes out. But when you think about that and thinking about what you talked about, like, okay, what are some of the lessons that you've learned in building the software? It's not your forte, it's not your expertise. It's your idea. And it's kind of putting into practice, the rocking chair, test, the shiny object syndrome being eliminated. Like how have you processed through that? And like, yeah, what's come up. What have you learned? Like, I'd love to hear some of that.TRAVIS:  And I know that you're going to love this answer because I know that's something we've talked about before. 100%, the most helpful thing during this entire process has been my network. Like without question on multiple, on multiple regards, that one of the biggest things that I've heard from SAS founders, and anytime I'm like trying a new venture, I kind of use it selfishly as I'm going throughout my, like, interviewing on my show.So you'll notice like, almost, almost like, um, industry leaning trends as I gain interest and other things, you know what I mean? Um, and so like you go through like a real estate investing thing and you talk to a bunch of real estate investors. And so I, you know, When I was starting the SAS stuff, I started talking to more SAS founders and things. And one of the biggest issues that I heard come up over and over again. And then I read through an, a software building book and took a couple online things about software. Andone of the  biggest thing, that I heard was just nightmares with development teams was like one of the biggest common denominators, one of the biggest common problems or issues for SAS founders.And I keep saying SAS, just to kind of define that in case you're wondering what that is. You're listening. It's a software as a service. And one of the biggest, one of those biggest problemsis that dev team issues? Well, I got super lucky, man, because I knew a guy who, reached out to me about starting a podcast for his software development company to get more clients in his software development company.And when we were talking, I told him about this software idea that I was kicking around in my head. And he was like, I think that's a tremendous idea. So usually this company, you would charge like $10,000 for a wire frame, which was enough to prevent me from figuring out what it would look like. Cause I, you know what I mean? Cause I knew that there were software dev shacks that would do something similar. And, but I was so focused on some other things that I was working on, but it wasn't a top priority for me to go out  and purposefully spend that amount of money just to see if I liked the product and want it to go get it built.Right. So, uh, he's a friend of mine that I've known for awhile. And after we decided to work on the podcast, we hopped on another call. He's like, we should just hop on a call and yeah. Work through what that might look like. So it helps call. We talked about it a bunch, and then a week later he shows me this wireframe that he did totally for free. And then I looked at the wireframe and I was like, I have to build this, that this has to exist. I think that it's going to be a knockout. I think that it's a good enough idea. I think that it has a lot of legs and you know, this guy's been in the software space for a long time. He agreed that obviously there was a external reason for him to agree that it had legs because he gets paid to do the dev work.But also he was a friend. So I actually trusted him. He wasn't just some random guy that found me online and wanted me todo his podcast for him. So that by itself was a good, like that connect by itself was amazing just to be able to have to work with a good dev shop that's, based in the U S and that does incredible will work and doesn't charge out the wazoo. For that incredible work. They do what they say they're going to do it. mostly has been on time. There's been a couple of delays, but that's just, that's like building a custom home and expecting it to be done on time too. It's just like, things just don't happen like that.There's always issues that come up that you're not sure that you're not sure, you know, that you couldn't have estimated from the beginning, but anyway, it's been mostly a positive experience. And and I've noticed that for sure, because other friends that I have that are doing similar dev work right. They've been working on it for months and months longer than we've been working on ours. And they are still months away from launching, whereas we're a couple of weeks away from launching. So just that one connection was good by itself, but now. Since then I've other questions about that kind of stuff, but I've never gone through like a fundraising round and all that kind of stuff.And it's still at this point, I haven't, but I was able to get on the phone with several entrepreneur friends that I now have, that I've built through the podcast, by the way, I was able to get on a phone with a bunch of them and ask them a ton of questions about like, Hey, Uh, what, what would you recommend on a seed round? Is that a click, a convertible or a safe orlike it, should there be some sort of options pool? Like what exactly do I do? How do I structure that? And then they a couple people, multiple people that made introductions to me to start up attorneys that would help me get my I legal docs set up all of, through introductions from people in my own network on relationships that I've worked on building for the last couple of years.And then a step further, bro. Even beyond all of the logistics and getting the company set up and, and learning some things , about raising capital and learning things about the, the a, the C Corp formation, because all I've ever done is like single member LLCs. That file is us corpse. And that, like, I see corp out of my world, you know, so asking all these questions, because it all these different things doing my own private, independent research, and then getting to the point where about a month ago started reaching out to people because we wanted to build up a list of guests that were going to be bookable on the site.So basically  it's a game and create a marketplace where if you have a YouTube channel or a podcast or a blog and you interview high level people for that, this is a way to connect with those people without going through months and months of trying to figure out where their media contact is and who the right person is and go through their gatekeeper and find an email and then schedule.And then in 17 email chain, it's basically go to their profile. Pay a thousand bucks or whatever their price is that they charge, book them on your show, have it scheduled in the County. I do the call. It's all taken care of within the site. And it's a pay-to-play marketplace so that you can for sure guarantee that you're going to get interviews. People you want to know. And so, when we were looking at the launch, we were like, okay, we can either go after the creators or we can go after the guests. We can't go after both because it would split our time and not be as effective. So I was like, let's go after the guests. Cause they're the ones with the audiences that will also have creators and they'll be able to bring in more users to the platform that way.We go out to  this list. And the first thing that I did is I is we went through all of the guests that have ever been on the build network. Yes. Which now at this point we're almost at 500 episodes. So we're coming up 300 something guests at this point. Cause some of them were solo shows and different combinations and things. So we reached out to that entire list. We have a list now almost 75 people. In the last two or three weekswhom have their own audiences. A lot of them are really well known, especially in the business and entrepreneurial space and especially in the consecration space, speaking space and all that, all those types of things, every single one of those people.Was, we're not cold pitches. They were warm, reached out it's to people that already had that I had already had a relationship with them. They've agreed to come onto the platformfor a couple of reasons. First of all, I think it's actually a useful platform. I think the software that we built actually has some really cool features. And if you're in this space or industry at all, I think that you would see that and it's all totally free because it's more of a platform as a service than it is a software as a service. Yeah. So our goal is basically just users. So, you know, it's a lot easier of a yes, but also the second reason that they're willing to say yes is because we have a PR like a preexisting relationship and there's a bunch of other people who have already said yes.So like literally bro, every single step along the way, there's a ton of uncertainty and there still is uncertainty. Obviously we haven't launched it. We still don't know how it's gonna work, work with people. Um, but I will say that, yeah, if I tried to do this two years ago, three years ago, Uh, I would be a million steps behind where I am right now. Just, just simply because of the relationships that are, that are, um, you know, existence in my life now. GEORGE: Cause nobody likes them or the people that get it.And one of the things that I think is so powerful, what you said is like, when you connected with this dev. There was a point where obviously he's incentivized because he'll be doing the dev work, but the quality of your relationship is what dictated his ability to go that deep invest that much capital and time into what it was offer based on the relationship that you had built and that wasn't transactionally, he reached out for help. You helped him. You did all of that thing. And what I think a lot of times, like I said, that we run up to, we, we teach relationships beat algorithms like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, yeah. But the payoff, like reciprocity doesn't work tomorrow. Like reciprocity is a bank that comes out whenever it's needed to come up, but it could be a year from now two years from now. And you have no idea how far that ripple travels. And I think, you know, that's a Testament to it. So I think this is a perfect opportunity, by the way. What's the name of the, um, the software for everybody knows. TRAVIS:  Yeah, it's called guestio. So you can find it over @ www.guestio.comGEORGE:  So here's, what's funny. I'll tell you this story before it has name this question. So I want to Carole Baskin and on the podcast, right? Like from, from Tiger King, like bingo is going, going crazy. And I was like, everybody does the same thing.  They reach out to PR people and I wanted to talk to her about her marketing. Cause like, quite frankly, like she's a marketing genius, you know? The jury's out on anything else, but from a marketing perspective, servant's like, you're never going to get ahold of her. And I was like, she's on cameo. And that app cameo, if you guys don't know, you pay X amount of dollars and you get it, the celebrity to record your voice or shout out. And so I was like, what if I pay for a cameo to give her my contact information, tell her I'm going to spread the message of her service and give her my email. So I send this cameo. And I don't give her anything to record the message. She cancels the cameo because there's nothing to record. Sends me an email and said, Oh, that was super creative. Can't wait, connect. Here's my email and got her contact info without her, for like paying a dollar. And I was like, I made guestio 1.0, without them knowing. TRAVIS:  That's exactly right, bro. That's, that's exactly where the idea came from cheering for people on there. And I was like, man, I wish I could guarantee that they're going to say yes to an interview, but there's no way to guarantee that. And so, uh, so I was like, well, why don't I just build it? GEORGE:  I felt responsible for them adding the feature to text after, because I did that six times and I got ahold of all six people and all six of them personally emailed me and I never paid a dollar because they refund your money. If the request isn't funny, right. And then I was like, I have morals and ethics. And I was like, okay, I really feel bad. Like this works. I just can't go teach this. . Like, I'll just leave it for what it is. And then you come along. But like, when you think about it, right, like you talk about, you've been working on years on like building your network and building your network.Like, what are some of the big things that you focus on when you meet somebody when you're building your network? Like, how do you ensure that, that connection or that relationship as positive and doesn't feel slimy and snaky, like we're used to. TRAVIS:  So the one way that I sign of my, every single podcast that I do on both network is remember to leave every relationship better than you found it.And it's not a first heard from Gary V where he talks about basically he always strives to add 51% of the value in every relationship that he has. And when I read that, I was like, that just makes sense to me that is the way. That people should be treated. And it was a little bit different of an idea for me at the time, because I was used to doing door to door sales, which is  like the opposite of networking. You know what I mean? Like it is literally knocking on a door and then selling something within 10 minutes of meeting somebody, which is literally the opposite of what you're supposed to do when you're networking and building relationships. And when I went through that, I was like, man, this seems just like a way better way to get the job done.Like one way you'll always be working. The other way you can build wealth in a shorter period of time. Just not right now. You know what I mean? Like it's not going to be right now, but if you do a good enough job building relationships over the course of the next 10 years at 20 years, it's going to be way more impact full then if you're just focusing on the short term transactions, because if you do that, you're going to be focusing on that for the next.40 years, 50 years. Cause you're never going to get a break from that. You better be really freaking smart with your money, if that's the way that you're treating relationships. And so that's one of the big things  that I try to instill with people is just to remember, to leave evolution better than you found it. Even if you have nothing to benefit from our relationship. If you have nothing that can help you or profit you from a relationship, always try to offer some value, get used to doing favors for people as long as they don't, take out huge chunks of your day. And as long as they don't make you in-congruent or inconsistent with the way that you choose you to live your life.If you're a coach for instance, and people pay you. 10 grand for your coaching session. You know, you obviously don't want to just hop on a ton of free coaching calls with somebody because for the sake of like helping them, because that's obviously completely unfair for the people who were paying you a ton of money to get access to your time. So I think that's a little bit different, but what I am saying is like, if you can make a quick connection or if you can recommend a quick tool, or you can shout out a book to somebody or say, Hey, I read an article this morning, thought you might enjoy it, send it off to somebody or you're, you know, out and about something reminds you of somebody that, you know, shoot them a quick video. Why not just reengage those people always be trying to add a little bit of value to the lives of the people that are around you. And what it does mean is that it makes people conspire for your good yeah. And when you have a ton of people that are just hoping that you do well, you know what I mean? They're just there. They're hoping they're there, they're there wishing the best upon you. Um, that's just, you know, I, I know this is a woo woo or whatever, but that's just good energy. It's good energy to have, you know, when there's a bunch of people conspiring for your good and for your benefit in the world, just because like, you're just a helpful person that never seems to care about all the other things. That's such a really, that's just a really awesome thing to have. GEORGE:   I say I'm wooo wooo covered in tattoos. They come, I just don't look it right. Like the tattoos were like a good hiding spot for me for awhile.  So when I think about this, right. when you think about these relationships and you think about always improving upon this silence rider, adding a bit of new founder, Gary, like we we've seen it.And the truth , is that. It does work. And it's not even that, like it works to get something out of it. Like it's just about being a good human being and like, understanding that this is what's going to change the world. AndI, it took me a long time to realize that, remember, you know, when I was like in the beginning of entrepreneurship and I like made my first million, I went to a conference and keynoted, I was like backstage with all the other speakers.And I was like, Let me tell you about me. Let me tell you about me. Let me tell you about me. And I was like, ah, they never just texted me back ever. Like I wouldn't even get their number.  Like good lessons that we had to learn, you know, to play the game. But one things that I find really interesting and I love to hear how people do this. When you start building relationships with people like you're talking about, like when you plant a seed, you have to water it and water and water it. And if you want that vegetable, you have to tend to it. Sometimes you have to water it once a month. Sometimes you can just let that thing grow and it's a Lotus and it comes through mud.And other times you have to water it daily, but like, how do you look at nurturing relationships with people when you build them? Like you have a really big network of people. And so is there anything that you proactively do or do you kind of just build it reactively and keep it open? Like, Hey, hit me up anytime. Like how do you see that, that nurturing of the watering of that garden that you've built with your network? TRAVIS: That's honestly something that I'm trying to get a lot better at, to be honest with you, man, because I am not super great at re-engaging and remembering things like that. My my wife will be the first one to line up and tell you that. I just try to do more things like exactly what I was just saying when I'm out and about I'm thinking about something or something reminds me of somebody I'll shoot them a quick text, shoot them a quick video, just, Hey, thinking about you haven't talked to in awhile, whatever.I think that goes a long way with people, especially now. When you just kind of assume that people catch up with your stuff, because while I'm posting it all online, there's something called an algorithm that doesn't show your stuff that you post online to everybody that knows you. So, it's really good to get off of those platforms and just shoot a text or shooting or shoot something out that's a little bit more personalized, especially if you can do a video really quick stuff like that, I think that is really beneficial. The other thing that I think that I do pretty well is connecting other people to each other as a form of continuing to stay in touch with people. So anytime I come across somebody who I'm like, it triggers a memory in my mind of a conversation that I had with somebody else.And I think that these two might be able to have a conversation, but I just make an introduction. I ask both people always get a double opt in intro because you never know if people are trying to avoid each other. You don't want to, you know, I've been, I've been put into introductions like that with people where I'm like, ah, come on, man.I don't like, this is already a person that I've talked to and they're just trying to like, get something from me and I've already told them no. And now I'm in this awkward conversation that I have to back out of because you're a friend of mine and I don't want to like, make it seem like, you know what I mean?So I'll always get the double opt in intro, but make introductions as much as you can, man. Be the connector of people.  I made an introduction. I didn't even know if it was going to go anywhere.  I don't know if you know, Jordan Harbinger and, and interpreter.  Brandon's a host of bigger pockets and Jordan has the Jordan harbinger show, too.It shows in iTunes bigger pockets podcast, the largest real estate investing podcast out there. They get three, 4 million something downloads a month.  Jordan's show is 6 million downloads a month. And I made a connection to them like, like, uh, a while ago. I don't remember even how long ago it was, but I just asked both of them like, Hey, I think this would be a fruitful connection.You know, they're both really cool people. You both kind of are, are living kind of outside of the other onlinebusiness type people, like all the funnel, hackers, community, like you guys are like, definitely. Away from that community. I think that you have multiple things that you agree on that you touch,  multiple crossover touch points. and so I was just like, Hey, you mind if I make an intro? And both of them said, sure. You know, and it was kind of like, yeah, but I mean, I can't really do much because my show is a real estate podcast. And then Jordan was like, yeah, I can't really do much though, because you know, he's about real estate.We don't really talk about real estate on the show. And I was like, all right, no worries. But I mean, the thing is be cool. If you guys got to know each other, it turns out a few months later, Brandon and bigger pockets decide to bring on an another interview into their weekly schedule, just about mindset in general, instead of just real estate investing, because that's a huge part of any business is working on your mind and going through the personal development journey.And the first guest that Brandon had on that segment of the bigger pockets podcast was Jordan harbinger. And so it was really, it was a really cool opportunity. To be brought up in another conversation. Andand know that I was able to add value to both of them, as well as the entire or audience that listens to the conversation.When back when, like, I didn't really even know what would come of it and I wasn't trying to get anything out. Yeah. Out of it. It was just a way of just trying to add a little bit of value to people. And I think if you get in that habit, it's a really good habit to get into. So be it be a connector of manGEORGE:  you're yeah, you're really good at that. And, and I've learned, I've learned how to do this by doing it all wrong and then learning how to do a ride and paying attention to those around me.  By the way, like, I need to talk about this double opt in thing too. Like. It is the worst thing you can do. Cause like I'm really available, like really available and I'm like, I'll talk to anybody, but I'm always like, Hey, can you ask me first? I've had intros to people that I swore, like I should have had restraining orders againstI'm like, I'm getting punked. This is a joke. One of my friends, like how did they not? And I'm like, I respond like WTF. I'm like, Oh my God, I forgot. How could you forget? You know, like, I feel like you opened Pandora's box and the poison of the play comes out again. And I was like, here it comes.  Like I did something in the universe to warrant this happening again, and now I have to play with it.You know, one of the things it's something I think about a lot too Travis and a couple like friends of mine, I've learned all of it. Like, so obviously, you know, and I know Jordan, by the way, I love his show. By the way, if you guys haven't listened to Jordan Harbinger, go check them out. Um, uh, Jim Kwik, right?So Jim's a really good friend of mine, all about mindset. And I love when Jim teaches things like people like how to remember a hundred days, how to remember a hundred names. How do I remember a hundred names? But I think one of the secrets about being a connector or one of the secrets about being in good relationships is being an active. listener. And it's not the have to remember, like, one of the things that I do is I never try to remember everything. I try to remember something unique. Nobody else would pay attention to about somebody like what their favorite dog treat was, or like what their, you know, the name of theiryou know, kid's favorite movie was there like some random thing. That's so easy for me to remember because it's so random and it feels so important about them because everybody else tell me how much money you make. Tell me what your business is. Tell me how you can, you know, pull those levers. And so I combined like. The knowledge of like four of my friends. So Jim teaches the memory stuff and then Steve's another really good friend of mine.I love what Steve says. So like you and I get off a call, right. And by the way, I did this with you because I had to, the moment we got off the call, I remember what we talked about. I went in my calendar and I sent three reminders in the future. And I made one note about what we talked about. That was it.And so I made a note and I was like, Hey, follow up a Travis ride. I was like, I know he's in Vegas. You gotta let him know I'm going there. Like, I, I wrote down, it took me like two seconds and I just wrote it down and then it ended up working out perfectly I do on the podcast. So Steve's like always like always take a note and just set a reminder to follow up with people.And so what I did is I, I took this one step further and I've, I've never shared this, but every time I get on a call with somebody like coming to do work with, or I'm doing business with the moment I get off the call pre-write and schedule three emails in the future, schedule them all that day. And so one goes like a week later, like, Hey, just far, I'm super glad we connected another one, like a month later. And then like three months later and I make them really evergreen, like just a, Hey checking in on you like Dean Jackson, nine word style. And then Jesse, Itzler. Said this a long time ago. And one of Jessie's biggest hacks is like, we all know, like I just had a monk on the podcast and his favorite quote of mine was like, if you can't shit without your phone, you're not living.And  I loved it. Right. Like, it was like the best moment it's wisdom. And I was like, hearing him say it, like, you know, turned my heart and then made me feel guilty at the same time. And I was like, okay, cool. So now there's times I intentionally shit without my phone, but now the rest of it, Jessie's like, Do yourself a favor. We all have plenty of pockets. Are we get in the endless scroll of Instagram? I'm on YouTube or whatever. He's like stop. And yeah, he's like when about, you're about to go there, open your phone, open your phone to an app and send three video messages or three texts messages to anybody that you have just check in.And that's it. Yeah, I do that every day and the results are absolutely mind blowing.  I don't know, there was some little things that like have come up for me years of doing this. Cause like I used to overcomplicate it right out, send like handwritten cards and Burt and nobody cares. They just want to know that you're thinking about it, that you're in a relationship and it always tends to open up the universe.TRAVIS:  well, that's exactly right. It tends to open up the universe we needed to because you, a lot of people try to try to, you know, avoid digging their wells thirsty. And that is the opposite  of how to have good relationships. You know, it's like if somebody hits you up after like nine years, you've not, you haven't talked in a really long time.Your first inclination is like, okay, this person's either about to like talk to me about, you know, Jesus or talk to me about their new supplement that they sell with, you know, EMA or whatever company hasn't been shut down by the FTC. You know what I mean? Like there's, there's something, there's some reason that they're reaching out and they're usually right. It's usually like you get so many of those pitches of people , that are like, obviously just sent out. You know, a thousand messages to their entire 1000 Facebook friends that they have. And all of them say more or less the same exact thing cause they're trying this numbers game thing, it just doesn't work.You have to dig your well before you're thirsty. And like that is exactly, you don't know when you're going to need relationships in your life. You don't know. And the software is a really good example for me on that, because the first few years when I was doing my podcast, I didn't know exactly what I was doing. I just knew that I liked podcasting on. I wanted to build an audience around this whole idea of building relationships and using your network and creating an environment that makes you a better person and all that kind of stuff. And I didn't know when I was talking a lot of these guests want, when they're I was interviewing them that one day I was going to reach out to them about this new software that I'm launching.And I wanted to see if they'd be willing to come on board as one of the launch guests, don't worry. It's totally free. All that kind of stuff. I didn't know. I, that, that was not in my thought process at the time. It was just cultivating a relationship when I reached out to other people and made some connections here and there like that, those weren't because I was thinking, man, one of those.You know, when I launched that software  in a year, you know, it's going to be amazing because I'll be able to have all these people to call back on it. Like you didn't think about it. You just, if you continually add value without trying to expect something in return, then you're building up a bank of relationship capital, just like you're building up a bank of Actual capital. And if you go to, if you have a price problem, if you have an issue, you have an emergency come up and there's no money in your bank account, then you go negative in your bank or you have to put it on a credit card and then you're in debt. You know what I mean? And saying, it's the same thing with relationships.If you don't have enough relationship capital in that bank account, so to speak, then when, by the way, when you have that problem, come up. When you have that emergency where you're like, man, I need, I need some help. I need some support from the people in my life. Your account's overdrawn. Yeah. What do you do now?You know what I mean? That's when you start reaching out to all these people and asking for these favors, when you haven't talked to them in seven years and it's just like, wait, what, Oh, you have a kid now. No way. That's crazy. You know what I mean? You know? So, so you got, yeah, you got to dig your well before. You're thirsty. Cause I mean, that's the only way that it's ever beneficial is if you just keep. Adding value to people's lives without really ever expecting anything and understanding that that's really the only way that it's even going to benefit you anyway. Um, and another good example would be Jordan.I don't know if you know the story, but basically he was with art of charm. The, the show that he had for a decade, really bad business dealings, he exited the partnership. And had to literally like literally they were, they were getting two, 3 million downloads a month, something like  that entire, you know, email, his customer list.All these things that the company kept Jordan had started over from scratch had zero things. The only thing that he had in his corner was his network. Yep. And he started that show at the beginning of 2018. Now in 2020, he has completely eclipsed the heyday of art of charm, our terms down to like to lower downloads as they've ever been before. And Jordan's show is  higher than double than what are charms heyday was just because he did the work for us over a decade of just putting work into relationships, adding value to people, and then the day that he needed some help. The day were like everything that he was working on got totally screwed over and he had to start from scratch.He had people that he could call and say, Hey man. I mean, I need a favor,you know, I, I need something and, and all those people that he had supported throughout all the years were eager, chomping at the bit to help this guy out because he had been so helpful to so many throughout his career. So, it's just such a big lesson.If you go into it, trying to help people expecting that you're going to get something from it. It has the opposite effect on you, you know, instead of just going in and just being how you can help out. And, you know, Zig Ziglar said it best when he said, if you help enough people get what they want, you can have everything that you want. And so if you're not giving the results that you want in life, maybe start thinking about like really do a real analysis, a deep dive on what you're doing, what your daily tasks are. What's your monthlygoals are all those types of things and ask yourself like, how many people am I helping by doing this?And if the answer was me, then you're, that's probably why you're not getting enough results because you're not doing anything that's actually intrinsically helpful to other people. That's how the market. You know, pays you that your paycheck is directly correlated to how many people you're helping and how effectively you're helping them.GEORGE:   It actually says in my Facebook header that accompany success is directly correlated to the amount of value they add on people's lives. Like that's where their financial success comes from. And  I think it was like one of the, a personal development coach I had like 10 years ago.I was in that like my whole life is ending.I just got out of 12 years of combat, like right. And like legitimate feelings. But I always felt frozen and she's like the fastest path just to give away what you want to get. And like, like that thing still carries so much weight for me to this say like when I'm stuck and I don't know what to do, like just go give it away. Like go give away energy, go give away positivity, but it's always about service. And I don't think there's any way to lose that game. And, you know, you said something that I think is really, really, really, really important before we wrap the episode. Andthis was something that it took me a long time to learn, but like, they don't take their well to their thirsty and all of these things like with relationships, right?If you do a relationship bad at burns a bridge that you can't rebuild it. Right. But when you do a relationship, right, or at least neutral, you improve upon the silence. You keep that bridge. Like every time Manhattan builds a new bridge, they don't knock the other ones down. That's why there's 21 of them. And you always want to have those avenues to lean into it doesn't mean you're going to have to drive over it. Like if you're going to Manhattan every day, you can only drive in on one bridge and out on one bridge, but you have those options. And that's how I tend to like, think about relationships and it's so powerful, man.Like, I have so much validation right now. Like in my soul hearing you speak about this stuff, like, it just makes my heart happy. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this is like a fusion of dopamine I needed today. Like it was one of those mornings. And so no, I absolutely love it. So. Quick question. So and just so everybody knows the best place to find track that's cause you can find them anywhere. Just Google his name his podcast. Amazing. But his Instagram is that Travis Chappell? TRAVIS:  Yep. Yep. Yeah. Just first and last name first. GEORGE:  Yeah, I was going to say it's 2:00 PM. I was about to say that. Who else? So it's Travis Chappelle with two  and two L.but you know, for everybody listening, right? Like just to wrap the episode, you know, like if there was a piece of parting advice, something that they could focus on today, something that would help move the needle in their life based on anything, you know, that we talked about, like what would those parting words of wisdom be? Like, if, if it was your last message to my audience, what would it be?TRAVIS:  Yeah, sure, man. I would say one of the principles, overarching principles that's helped me in my life in general, in all things. It's not just my business, not just my network is,  taking radical responsibility.and I think that that's just a big principle in life that we're watching it unfold before us in our, the grand scheme of the politics in our country right now.And I'm not gonna talk about a bunch of politics or anything, but the reason that I bring that up is that it comes from the site. A lot of the issues that we have stems from this idea that other people are responsible for the things that happen in our lives, which is the opposite of the truth. And it's a losing game. If you truly believe that you are not responsible and other people are responsible, then everything's always out of your control. It means you have no ability to change things that are happening in your life and the things that are coming to you , at a later date in your life. And if that's the lot that you've accepted, then there's nowhere to go from here. And you may as well just do nothing and exist forever because like why even try if you can't change any of those things. And so it starts with taking radical responsibility and by the way, responsibility and faults are two different things because some people will be like, Oh, you know, well, what about my dad? You know, he died when, uh, you know, he died when I was 16 from cancer. And it's like, okay, well, that's not your fault. There's a big difference. But it was your responsibility to now deal with the problem and say, Hey, what do I need to do moving forward?Now that has to be come your responsibility and there's a , big difference between those two things. And I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but I am saying that once you start taking responsibility for everything that happens in your lifefor all of us, things that you have control over.Once you start taking responsibility for that, you're gonna start, you're gonna start just noticing that the world unfolds with risk with with opportunity, that opportunity abounds and that there's nothing that's preventing you from taking advantage of those opportunities except for you and your own belief that it's not possible. Take taking radical responsibility, man. And that would be the thing I would like to leave everybody with.GEORGE:  This is the podcast that I needed, but it is now. And that was so true for me. This was the one I wanted and it turned into one that I needed. And man, it's absolutely, it's an honor to have you on the show for everybody listening.Please go check out Travis, a Google on it, check them out on, Google him on Instagram. Check them on his brand. And Travis Chappele and then check out  www.guestio.com Especially if you're in the podcasting space creator space work with influencers are an influencer. Go check that platform out. Cause it's a pass. It's a platform as a service as Travis is going to corn. That one now. So man, thank you for being here and, it's always been a pleasure. So for anybody listening, remember that relationships always beat algorithms and I will see you guys in the next show. 

When we were gatting ready to celebrate our first anniversary we were trying to think of who we could bring on that would create that buzz, that indication that these guys are legit. As we talked about the various guests we had already had, none of them seemed to gives us that feeling that this is the one. Eventually one name seemed to keep coming up in discussion, the biggest name we could think of. We needed Animal! The idea was easy enough, now the question was how do we execute it? Thankfully Steve knew Joe from their days in the Chicago based promotion Workd Wrestling Zone. It also helped that they were friends on Facebook too. So Steve sent Joe a message and asked if he would be willing to do a favor for an old friend. Within twenty minutes he got a yes from the tag team legend and the annual event known as Anniversary was born. It's fitting that we play this tribute on the day Clash Of Champions occurs as The Road Warriors were involved in the very first Clash, which was programmed as a free TV event to rival the then WWF and WrestleMania. Joe was involved in seven of the twenty five Clash events. Joe, we thank you for your time and most importantly your friendship. You will be missed.

On this week's episode of The Scale or Fail Show, I interviewed Steve Weatherford, founder of Weatherford Fit and formerly one of the best punters in the NFL!   One of the highest performers in professional football, Steve seemed to have everything he wanted. But the moment he achieved his longtime goal of winning the superbowl… he realized that he STILL didn't feel good or happy enough.   So Steve left the world of pro football, followed his passion -- and is now a leader in the fitness industry (all while becoming happier than he's ever been)!   Watch now to learn:  

On this week's episode of The Scale or Fail Show, I interviewed Steve Weatherford, founder of Weatherford Fit and formerly one of the best punters in the NFL!   One of the highest performers in professional football, Steve seemed to have everything he wanted. But the moment he achieved his longtime goal of winning the Superbowl… he realized that he STILL didn't feel good or happy enough.   So Steve left the world of pro football, followed his passion -- and is now a leader in the fitness industry (all while becoming happier than he's ever been)!   Watch now to learn:  

In retirement, former NASCAR driver Elliott Sadler’s schedule is more packed than ever with coaching youth sports, iRacing and golfing! So Steve was lucky to get him to join the Letarte On Location podcast this week. Elliott reflects on his driving career, the current state of the Playoffs, and which Hall of Fame driver helped him as a rookie.

Wonder Woman is a fantastic addition to the DC Extended Universe. Where Man of Steel succeeded as a science fiction movie, Wonder Woman succeeded as a war story and a fantasy film. Join me as I delve into this story, discussing the themes, praising the balanced tone that maintains the depth of Man of Steel and Batman V Superman while adding character-centric humour, and see how the film connected emotionally with me on a level I was not expecting. ----more---- Transcript Welcome to Nerd Heaven. I’m Adam David Collings, the author of Jewel of the stars And I am a nerd   This is episode 31 of the podcast This is episode 32 of the podcast   Today, we continue our look at the DC Extended Universe with Wonder Woman.   The description on IMDB reads When a pilot crashes and tells of conflict in the outside world, Diana, an Amazonian warrior in training, leaves home to fight a war, discovering her full powers and true destiny.   The screenplay was written by Allan Heinberg From a story written by Zach Snyder, Allan Heinberg and Jason Fuchs The film was directed by Patty Jenkins And it first released on the 25th of May 2017   So let’s talk about Wonder Woman   We are introduced to Wonder Woman in present day Paris. Working at the Louvre. And we immediately get our first bit of connective tissue with the DC universe as the Wayne Enterprises van pulls up. That photo that Bruce found and emailed to her in Batman V Superman. He’s found the original. He thought she might like it. Isn’t that sweet. He still wants to hear the story.   And that takes us to Dianna’s childhood. Thymiscera looks awesome. All those waterfalls and stone buildings. Incredible visuals. They cast young Dianna quell. Not only is she a coll little actress, but I recently saw a photo of her beside a childhood shot of Gal Gadot. They look very similar. It’s so cute seeing young Dianna mimicking the actions of the adults as they battle. You’ll notice that this entire sequence in Thymascyra gives us no sense of time, all the way until Steve arrives. That makes sense. This is a world to itself. Completely cut off and self-sufficient. To them, the outside world doesn’t exist.  But I find myself wondering. How old exactly is Dianna when she meets Steve? When are these childhood scenes set? We know Amazons don’t age like humans. We know Dianna was created by Zeus in the times of the ancient greeks. So how long was her childhood? Did she take centuries to grow up? Or did she mature at a normal rate and then simply live as an adult for thousands of years? Anyway, we get some backstory. The stories of Greek Mythology are already considered ancient at this point, having happened a long time ago.  So this movie canonises the existence of the Greek gods as real in the DC universe. The marvel movies present the Norse gods as real, but aliens. This movie doesn’t make that claim. It leaves it a little uncertain, but the implication seems to be that Zeus and his mates were actual gods. The implication also is that human beings were created by Zeus. At least, Antiope believes this. After Ares corrupted the hearts of mankind, Zeus created the Amazons to influence men’s hearts with love. So, did humans, male and female, not already know love? Or is the suggestion here that the Amazons were the first, females? Perhaps that human females are descended from them? Again, it’s not completely clear. We know the gods can die, given that Ares killed all but Zeus, so they are in some form mortal beings.  With his dying breath, Zeus created a weapon that could kill a god, just in case Ares returned. The movie cleverly doesn’t explain exactly what the weapon is yet. The look on Antiope’s face when Dianna asks to see the god killer means so much more on repeat viewing. Note she never actually calls the sword the god killer. Dianna is the one who says it. She assumes, though clearly pushed in that direction. Hipolita is hesitant to let Dianna train as a warrior, but when she eventually agrees, she insists that she be trained harder than any Amazon before her. But she must never know the truth about herself. This, of course, is our first clue that Dianna herself is the god killer. But because she’s never been told the truth, when her powers begin to manifest, she has no idea what’s going on.   And then we hear the buzz of a propeller plane, as it passes through the forcefield protecting Thymiscira. Chris Pine was a great pick to play Steve. I was surprised how easily I was able to seperate him from Captain Kirk. Possibly because, to me, Captain Kirk will always be William Shatner.   I love the visual contrast we the camera passes through the forcefield. The bright world of Thymiscira gives way to the dark fog surrounding the German ship. Does Thymiscira have the same day/night cycle as the rest of the planet? Because it looks like night time out there. Of course, fog does make everything a lot darker. And the shot as the German officer puts his head in and out of the forcefield is cool.   Dianna’s sense of wonder as she sees a man for the first time is nicely played. Here’s a question. Why didn’t the Amazon’s continue to advance their weapons technology? We’ll learn later that they are at least somewhat aware of what is going on in the outside world. They know many languages of the outside world, including English. They’re a race of warriors, so certainly not against fighting. Don’t get me wrong, they clean the floor with the German soldiers, guns or not, but they pay a hice price in casualties. Do they consider bows and swords more honourable, in some way, than bullets? Because that’s a perspective I don’t quite understand. Of course, there’s no denying that swords are cool. And so Antiope dies, sacrificing her life, taking the bullet to save Dianna. As she dies, she knows the time has come. War has consumed the world. Ares has returned.   The Amazon who argues against killing Steve on the spot is wise. “If we kill him, we learn nothing of who they are and why they came,” she says.   And we’re introduced to the laso of truth. A potentially cheesy addition to the Wonder Woman mythos, and yet this movie makes it work. The scene as Steve tries desperately to avoid revealing that he’s a spy. He has a duty. He can’t willing reveal classified secrets in war time, but ultimately we has no choice. I like the way it’s portrayed as he endures as much as he can before the truth finally bursts out of his mouth. Can I say that I love that they set this movie in World War 1. World War 2 has been used so many times, in so many stories, it’s practically a cliche. I mean it was a practical good idea to set this apart from Captain America, which was set in World War 2, but from a creative standpoint, I just enjoyed the earlier setting. I guess since the fairly recent century of the first world war, I’ve been thinking a lot more about it than I used to, when I was younger.   Steve is on a very important mission. If he doesn’t get word of Doctor Poison’s plan back to the British, millions will die. Apparently, the Amazon’s haven’t been playing much attention to the outside world for a while, because they’re not aware of the great war. And you can understand that from their perspective, hearing of this horrific war, truly a war like none the world had ever seen, it’s obvious that Ares has returned and is messing with humanity.   Dianna starts off this story as quite naive. But that doesn’t mean she’s wrong in wanting to go with Steve and help. This is why the Amazon’s were created. This is why Dianna was created. But, like the monks of old, the Amazons have shut themselves off from the world, rather than allow themselves to influence it.   This movie doesn’t quite portray Wonder Woman as being able to fly, in the same sense that Superman can fly, but she can certainly jump like no human ever could.   So she breaks in, steals the lasso, shield and sword, and armour. She’s wearing the wonder woman costume from this point on, but it’ll actually be quite a while before we see it. We see a lot of Dianna’s character when she says “I’m willing to fight for those who cannot.” In the end, Hipolita knows what Dianna must do, so she lets her go with her blessing. As a parent, I understand her reluctance. Who wants to willingly let their children go out into the wide world where they might get hurt? I haven’t faced this challenge yet, but for Hippolita, it’s greater, because there is so much danger out there.   Steve kinda plays along a bit. He doesn’t believe for a minute that Ares, the greek god of war literally exists, but he’s also seen the power of these people, so he knows there’s something to them. Again, we see Dianna’s naivete. As soon as Ares is dead, the war will end and men will be good again. I mean, she’s not exactly wrong, but it’s nowhere near as simple as she thinks. She’s going to have to face up to the hard reality that things are more complex than she sees if she’s going to have a hope of fulfilling her destiny.   Steve has a bit of a cynical view of marriage. And if you look at the statistics, it’s not hard to understand why. But despite what he says, plenty of married couples still do love each other up until death.I fully intend to do so.   So Doctor Poison has developed a serum that gives Ludendorf greater than human strength. Okay. I can suspend disbelief enough for that. But the way his face glows, I dunno. It looks like something supernatural or alien. Not like a chemical concoction that could believably have been developed by a human in the early twentieth century.   It makes sense that Steve, though American, is working for British intelligence. The Americans didn’t enter World War 1 until very late in the game. Even now, as it’s nearing its end, they haven’t been involved that long. It’s interesting that not a single frame of this movie takes place in America. I kinda liked that. Not that I have anything against movies taking place in America. A lot of my favourite movies do, but it just made sense for this story that it took place elsewhere in the world, and frankly, there’s a whole planet out here. Not every Superhero story has to take place in America. Dianna’s arrival in London is truly fantastic. This is an incredible exotic world to her, and she drinks it all up. I love the idea of Superhero period pieces. I always have. There haven’t been many. I’ve got to admit, this one is my favourite.   It’s very sweet when Diana gets excited at the cry of a baby. She’s never seen a baby before. She’s been surrounded by adults all her life. Of course she’d want to see it. I heard a lot of praise for this movie from female viewers, because it allowed Wonder Woman to be powerful, strong, and a mighty warrior, without being masculine. She was still allowed to be feminine, with all the varied things that means. They really appreciated that. And I think I can understand that.   And we’re introduced to Etta. Etta is totally awesome. She brings a lot of the humour to this film, but it all flows naturally out of her character. This movie had a lot more humour than Man of Steel or Batman V Superman, but unlike Suicide Squad, the humour was all character-based and natural. Much of it came from Dianna’s being a fish out of water, the rest came from Etta’s great personality.   So they make a little joke about slavery. The way Etta describes her job as Steve’s secretary does sound like the definition of slavery to Dianna, but I think she left out some important details. Now, I’m not going to suggest that the world of 1918 was in any way an equitable society. Far from it. But there Is a big difference between somebody who voluntarily enters into employment, offering services, for which they are paid money, and a slave. I think to seriously confuse the two runs the danger of understating the evils of true slavery. But I may be reading too much into this. It’s a joke.   It does make sense for Dianna to put on setting-appropriate clothes to help her blend in. I do love the scene of her walking through the building in her street clothes holding her sword and shield.   And the scene in the alley, where they are confronted by the german spies, and Dianna saves Steve, is awesome. It’s very reminiscent of the scene in Superman: The Movie, where Clark and Lois are mugged. The way Dianna catches the bullet. I’m pretty sure that was deliberate. It’s a great scene.   Steve realises in that moment just what an asset Dianna is in a fight. He doesn’t need to protect her. She ends up protecting him.   Her naivete continues as she asks the german spy where she can find ares. She’s taking everything at face value, assuming people know what she’s talking about. And now we meet Sir Patrick Morgan. He’s telling everyone they need an armistice. Which is quite ironic if you know who he really is. He sees Dianna and is taken aback. He says it’s because there is a woman in the room. But it may be that he recognises her. And it’s Steve who comes up with her secret identity name, Dianna Prince. This is done in a realistic way. She can’t just walk around calling herself Princess of Themyscira. Due to Dianna’s linguistic expertise, they learn of Doctor Poison’s plan. The creation of a dangerous gas against which masks will be useless. Morgan continues to argue for the armistice, but by doing so, he prevents Steve’s mission to stop Doctor Poison. Dianna’s passionate argument to the generals is very satisfying. And yet, after Steve tells Dianna he’s taking her to the front against orders, and recruits some backup, he shows up and helps them. Given what I know about Morgan, I’m not quite sure why he’s helping Steve and Dianna. But as I watch I’m going to pay close attention and see if I can get my head around it. Anyway, he gives them money to fund their illegal mission. I love the moment when Dianna tries ice cream for the first time. Another one of those nice little moments that show her innocence. I don’t think Steve believes that the greek god of war is behind all of this, not really, but he’s seen enough to know that Dianna and her people are powerful, more so than any normal human. He knows something is going on, and he knows she can help him. So he’s bringing her along, and acting as if what she says is true. The more I think about it, the more I realise that it had to be world war 1 in this story. This is a war like none the world has ever seen. This is just what it would look like if Ares was trying to destroy the world. That wouldn’t have worked for world war 2. Don’t get me wrong. WW2 was horrific but wasn’t as unprecedented as WW1. So once they meet chief, a nickname that would probably be considered politically incorrect in today’s world, we’ve assembled the team we first saw in the photo in Batman V Superman. We see a little glimpse of the reality of war with charlie. He’s clearly suffering from post-traumatic stress. Dianna has an eye opening experience as they near the front lines and she gets a sense of what war really looks like. It’s a powerful moment as they walk through the trench. Dianna learns about the town of Veld. The inhabitants have been enslaved. Steve is not unsympathetic but helping those people is impossible. Dianna doesn’t understand. And yet, she has the power to do what nobody else can. And so , she takes off her coat and finally, we see her in the wonder woman costume. Can you believe this is the first time we see Wonder Woman? I didn’t realise until this moment that he hadn’t actually seen it. The character kept us so engaged.  But it’s a wonderful moment. So triumphant and heroic.  And yet there’s not the slightest hint of cheese. It plays wonderfully. I get a whole lot of goosebumps watching this scene. Words can’t do it justice. I can only say it’s awesome. And we see her do a few of her super jumps. So they arrive in Veld.  This is a fantastic action sequence. And finally we get a reprise of the amazing wonder woman theme from Batman V Superman. That music was incredible and I’m so glad they brought it back in this movie. It fits even better here than it did in the previous movie. Interesting fact, did you know it’s not actually an electric guitar playing those notes, it’s a cello put through the same kind of distortion usually applied to guitars. Very cool. What a great moment of celebration as Dianna realises she has saved the people of the town. They’re all feeling the elation. And we see the famous photo being taken. Wonderful. And we get a nice little reminder that few of these people wanted to be soldiers. They all had different aspirations and dreams. Morgan is insistent that Steve not go near the meeting to jeopardize the armistice. But if Steve doesn’t, and the poison weapon is deployed, there will be no armistice. Which, of course, is what Morgan wants. He wants to war to continue. So why did he give Steve that money to help him go? Dianna thinks, quite logically, that Ludinorf is Ares. So Steve and Dianna finally have a quiet enough moment to really draw close to one another. And they spend the night together. Love is a tricky thing in a movie. In a TV show, you have time to let people slowly and naturally fall in love over a course of multiple episodes, just like in real life. But a movie has very limited time. You almost have to make it happen faster than it logically should. A good movie somehow makes it work despite that. I’m not sure how or why. But for me, in this movie, it works. You know what I like about their relationship. It’s sweet, it’s genuine, and there’s not a hint of angst. Dianna wants to storm into the castle, guns blazing, and take out Ludinorf. Steve is wise to advise a more subtle approach. Some stories with female heroes, Star Trek Voyager comes to mind, try to make their heroes perfect. They can never be wrong. Wonder Woman doesn’t take that approach. It allows Dianna to be flawed. To be naive and to make mistakes. By allowing her to be human, in that sense, I think this movie portrays Wonder Woman as a more satisfying female hero. And I think that's what a lot of the female viewers who praised this movie appreciated. Certainly I appreciated that approach to Superman in Man of Steel.   So anyway, Dianna finds her own way to sneak into the palace. And to her credit, she is blending in. Steve’s primary objective is to stop the gas weapon from being used. Dianna’s primary objective is to kill Ares. Then everything will be good again. Their objectives are at odds. Steve can’t let her kill Ludinorf until they find the gas. Maybe Ludinorf is not Ares. Or maybe Ares doesn’t even exist.   And then they test the gas weapon on Veld. And we have that heart-breaking moment as Dianna goes and sees that all the people of that town, who she had saved, are dead. It’s a tragic moment. And Dianna blames Steve, because he stopped her from killing Ares. In her mind, Steve has been corrupted  as well. Which kind of is some growth for her, because in any war, there aren’t really pure good guys and bad guys.It’s never entirely that simple.   This movie had a very successful tone. It had those comedic moments (which actually were funny) to satisfy those who prefer the light-hearted stuff, but it still had a lot of depth, and gritty emotion that I crave in a superhero movie. It was the perfect middle ground that seemed to work for everybody.   We have another great action scene as Wonder Woman battles Ludinorf. So she kills him. It’s over. Except …. Nothing happens. No great world-shattering change. The war is still raging. And Dianna is forced to come face to face with the truth. She was seeing things in simplistic terms. The truth is a lot more complex than she had been able to see. It’s a terrible moment of self-doubt for her.  “Maybe people aren’t always good, Ares or no Ares,” steve ays. “Maybe it’s who they are.” Dianna can’t accept this. After all she’s seen. People killing people they can’t even see. Civilians. Children. Humans can’t be that bad on their own. Can they? Her mother was right. MAnkind doesn’t deserve her.   It’s not about deserve. Maybe we don’t. Maybe it’s not about what we deserve. Maybe it’s about what we believe. Don’t you think I’d like to believe it was all just due to one guy. This is all wonderful thematic stuff.   So while Dianna questions everything she’s ever believed, Steve has to go. Someone still has to stop that gas. And that’s when Morgan shows up. And we learn the unexpected truth. Morgan is Ares. I thought this was a brilliant move.   First of all, I’m glad they didn’t make a German Ares. That’s too easy. Too black and white. The charming posh old british man. Who would ever have expected him to be Ares?   So now we know that Morgan is Ares, we still ask, why did he help Steve come here to stop the gas? He wants the gas weapon to be used. He wants the war to continue.   “All I wanted was for the gods to see how evil my father’s creations were.” He says. “I am not the God of war, I am the God of truth.” There is so much here that resonates with me spiritually. So much biblical parallel.   As the sword burns, Dianna finally learns that it isn’t the god-killer. SHE is the god killer. She is the weapon Zeus left behind to protect the world from Ares.   We find that humans never needed Ares to make them fight. War and evil ARE in the hearts of man. It’s our sinful nature. IT always has been. But he gives a little push here, and little push there. Gives them the weapons and let them use them. All he did was engineer an armistice he knew they could never keep. I think, in the end, he recognised Dianna when he first saw her in London. He wanted her to be here, and let her naivete make the war worse, not better. I think that’s probably why he gave that money to Steve.   When Steve sees them fighting in the distance, he believes. Finally he has no doubts. Ares is real, and he’s here.   Steve has a plan. A way to get that gas out of here. He’s got to fly the plane out of here. It’ll likely be a suicide mission, but that’s what soldiers do. They make the ultimate sacrifice.   I like the intercutting between Dianna’s battle with Ares and Steve’s attempt to hijack the plane.   It’s a heartbreaking moment as Steve fires the gun that destroys the plane, the poison, and himself.   Was that necessary? I dunno, but it at least makes as much sense as Steve Rogers crashing the plane in Captain America. Probably more.   Ares’ aim here to to prove to Dianna how pathetic humans are. How evil and undeserving they are of her sympathy. Doctor Poison ends up being the symbol of mankind. And he’s right. The humans don’t deserve mercy. They don’t deserve her sympathy. It was an interesting film-making technique to obscure the sound of Dianna and Steve’s final conversation, only to reveal it now in this moment. But he makes a good point. He can save today, but she can save the world.   “They’re everything you say, but so much more,” Dianna says. “It’s not about deserve. It’s about what you believe. And I believe in love.” This all lines up so well with what I believe. We ARE undeserving, but we are the recipients of love.   I didn’t expect this movie to be so thematically relevant. I really connected with this. To use a Christian word, Dianna exercises grace. Undeserved favour. I don’t mean to constantly bring my personal beliefs into this, but honestly, each of these movies just connect with me so personally in these moments. I can’t not talk about it.   Well, Ares is now dead. And the war is over. Without the devastation of that gas weapon, the armistice has been signed, just as history records.   But the death of Ares is no quick and easy fix to the world’s problem. The sin in human hearts is still there. Each person must make their own choice every day. No hero can do this for them.   And that brings us back to present day, the framing device. This is her mission now, to help where she can. And to help people daily make that decision.   As she dives into the air and sails over the Paris skyline, she appears to be flying. Properly flying. Not just jumping. There is a lot of speculation that in the next Wonder Woman movie, which would have been released by now, were it not for COVID 19, she will gain the ability to fly. It’ll be interesting to see if that’s the case. Anyway, that movie will be set before the present day scenes here, so it’s conceivable.   This movie doesn’t have an after-credit scene, but there is an epilogue on the Blur-ray, in which Etta sends the team out to recover a cube-shaped artefact found near the western front, which if course, is a set-up for Justice League.   I love this movie. Where Man of Steel triumphed as a science fiction movie, Wonder woman triumphs as a war movie, and a fantasy. It’s a mashup that I really really like.   Well, it’s been a wild ride. Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Wonder Woman, even Suicide Squad. I count them all as great movies.   Next up, we’ll take a look at the theatrical version of Justice League. I’ll talk about what works for me, and what doesn’t, and try to settle in my mind exactly what it is that I hope for from the Snyder Cut which we’ll be getting next year.

The Pivotal Role of Branding in B2B In this interview, we have an engaging as well as passionate discussion with Steve Watt (Vice President of Marketing, Grapevine6). Steve talks to us about the importance of branding in B2B: How it helps companies to build trust in an already crowded marketplace, why it’s important for organizations to empower their people, how brands can leverage the power of social media, and why sometimes measuring results isn’t enough to build a truly remarkable brand. Topics discussed in this episode: How branding can play a pivotal role for B2B companies during tough times. [6:36 / 10:38] How shall CMOs address the ROI question? It’s about the timeline and aperture of the measurement. [29:10] What’s the most impactful thing we marketers can do right now? [35:09] Top advice Steve got from his mentor. [39:20] Resources & links mentioned in this episode: Steve Watt on LinkedIn Grapevine6 SAP Merrill Lynch UBS Christopher Lochhead Mark Wright, CCO at Firmax Transcript SPEAKERS Christian Klepp, Steve Watt Christian Klepp  00:08 Hi, and welcome to the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. I'm your host Christian Klepp, and one of the founders of EINBLICK Consulting. Our goal is to share inspirational stories, tips and insights from B2B marketers, digital entrepreneurs, and industry experts that will help you to think differently, succeed and scale your business. Christian Klepp  00:29 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this episode of the B2B marketers in the mission podcast. I'm your host, Christian Klepp and today I've got a special guest on the show who up to about two weeks ago was a complete stranger. And that's the power of LinkedIn, connecting with equally passionate individuals for you. So Mr. Steve Watt, welcome to the show. Steve Watt  00:49 Thanks, Christian pleasure being here and it was really great to meet you over LinkedIn. Take it on to zoom as what does these days, Get acquainted and realize we're fellow travelers and a lot of aspects of marketing and customer experience and other things. And, here we are. So this is great. Thanks for having me on. Christian Klepp  01:10 No problem. All right, let's get this party started. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do? Steve Watt  01:17 Sure. I'm VP marketing at Grapevine6, which is a enterprise social engagement platform. We empower people, primarily people in large financial services firms and tech companies and professional services firms to make the most of LinkedIn and other social platforms by helping them find the right content and to share it and engage with it in a very compliant way, which is a big issue in financial services. So I lead the small but growing marketing team here and we're a 60-person company right now. That is powering through the COVID environment, powering through recession or whatever was going on, and we've got a pretty ambitious future ahead of us. Christian Klepp  02:11 Well, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing that. So Steve, what are you currently working on that you're that you're really excited about? Steve Watt  02:22 Well, it's really interesting at Grapevine6. I mean, the company's had a lot of success over the last few years. And no thanks to marketing. I mean, the company has been thriving and growing based on great product, great client service, and great sales, and great selling, and marketing really hasn't been there. And so I just joined a few months ago. And really, my mandate is to build that engine of growth and help lead us into the next phase of growth. And it's really interesting because I've been in large companies. I've been very small early stage startups. And here we're in this nicely in between place. And we've got some amazing customers and powerful product and, but really no marketing function. So it's really going back to first principles about what does an organization need to build in terms of a powerful marketing fu...

George: And this one's probably going to be the most decorative that you've seen. I didn't send Steve a bottle of whiskey, but I'm stoked to have him. And if you don't know who Steve Sims and I don't know why you're listening to my fucking podcast, because he is a dear friend of mine. And probably the original guy that cared about relationships. So from bricklayer in London to stockbroker, to getting fired in five days. Now the art of blue fishing and getting people to the bottom of the ocean Titanic people married in the Vatican. Steve I'm so stoked to have you, and so stoked to be here. How are you my friend?George: I'm just so glad that I bumped into you in Encino a couple of years ago, and we had those conversations, but Steve, I'd like to start these with a fun one and you always deliver. And my first question for everybody is what is the biggest mistake that you've ever made in business and what'd you learn from it?Steve Sims: Keeping it a business. There's this old statement that we've raised up on like a load of myths that are no longer relevant. Don't take it personal it's business. Is personal and the more personal you can make it, the better the business will be. So I remember I tried to kinda like keep my personality out of it. Keep what would end up becoming my brand away from the business connection. I'm making the business connection, such a connection, if was a transaction and it was sterile. And there was no connection, and worse there was no growth. So I learned very early on to get rid of that phrase and it's cancer as 21 that adopts it.Geroge: Steve and I met, we just bumped into it. Like, I like you, I like you let's talk. And I even like went on a whim, but I think that's probably an in the current state of the world, the thing that everybody's missing, I mean, you and I both have people slotting into our DMS, like, Hey, I don't know you. I'm not going to spit on my hand, but yeah. Will you marry me? Come into business with me. And people are destroying their businesses, their relationships, their life, and credibility, because they don't understand that. And I don't know no more social media lives. Like, I, I love what I love about you. It's like, Hey, let's have whiskey online. Like, here's my bulldog. Here's my kids that don't learn enough yet. You're not, you're not fast enough on the motorcycle. Like here I go. And it's like, you give the whole picture, not this "social media life" that everybody pretends to have.Steve Sims: Well, it's just filtered. Isn't it. You can get so many filters and it's kinda weird. You can get so many filters for your Instagram and your videos to make it look, slimmer, smarter, prettier, tanned, you know, he's just ridiculous. And I've never understood it walking to the pub and you brought it up. You made the comment that if I walked into the pub and I bumped into you, literally bumped into you and spit your beer. We're too big lads. We could dance or we could be courteous and go, sorry, man. I spill your beer. I apologize, mate. I'll buy you a beer. We may suddenly strike into a conversation. We may speak, spen time chatting, but here's the thing. If I got any, have that conversation wrong, when would I turn around and go, Oh, hang on a minute, George. I didn't mean to say I'm going to step out. We're going to re edit that, and then I'm going to come back in and go, Oh, Hey George, we don't edit life. Therefore, why should we edit how people see it? I think we've all got warts. We all go to the toilet. We've all got shit that we've done wrong. And usually that's where we've grown most.And so I, my wife always says, and I'm going off of a van here. My wife often says that In the mall comic series of superhumans, my superhuman strength is the power of ignorance. I do and then I think about it. So I've never allowed intelligence and too much thought to get in the way of what I do. So yeah, if you like it and it resonates and it relates and it helps. Great. If it bothers an earth shoe that it's not got a perfect 10 on it, or I'm not looking slim enough, or I haven't got my combat shin over the shoulder, look, then I can move on.George: And I think it's you embodied this and it's why I've loved you since day one but when we think about it too, is a lot of the stuff that people portray in that container. It's not sustainable because it's pretend right. Like, it's like, I got to turn it on. I got to look a certain way. I got to go and they wonder why people don't trust them. Like you and I both play with relationships all day and everyone's like, Oh no, what he buys for me, nobody trusts me. I'm like, that's cause they can feel the snake in your grass. Like that's not you, that's not real. And so how do you do you recommend? Cause like we live in a pretty crazy world right now. But we've been digital for a long time and in the way that I see it, I think there's two buckets that I see.It's like who I'm pretending to be and who I really, really am. And every single time I see it. Even the ones that are pretending to be, they're like, Oh, I'm going to get there. I'm like, no, you might hit seven figures, but you're going to crash and have to launch again next year. That's why you have your third Instagram account or your seventh offer or your 27th product. And then there's the people that are like, this is who I am unapologetically, like authentic, documenting and creating that but you're the master of this. You've done everything from, I mean, I still. I still like I'm blown away when I hear some of the shit that you do. And I love it to pieces and all of it really, like, I remember the story. I remember you being like, nobody remembers the little guy. I remember the guard at the Vatican and having a relationship with him and sending a book. And that's not because you're like, Hey, I'm Steve. Like, I'm the bald Irish whiskey drinking got fired. Tell about relationships for you. So like, how do you recommend people navigate these times right now? Because we live in a time where all the attention is increased, but I feel like the level of connection has decreased.Steve Sims: That last two seconds of your statement, there was the most powerful and up but I want to make a correction. So your statement, thank you very much for plays and meat. I'll take it all day long and I'll be very happy with it, but it's not relevant.Steve Sims: The reason I look and appear so good at communicating with people is quite simply because the rest of the planet has got so shitty at it, you know. That's why I looks so great. I can't smoke the shit, you know, I'm not very, you know, warm and fuzzy. I'm not endearing. I just call it as it is and that clarity, that transparent as what's got me through. You see, there's two things you got to understand. Today we're in a world where with social distance. Today we're in a world where everyone's our home and we've been pulled away from the ability to walk up to a body in the street and just go, dude, how are you doing? Give a back slab, give a handshake, you know, kiss, your wife will lose in the ability to be able to do that and we're missing it. So we're actually desperate to connect with people. Now here's the bad thing. We will screaming, our we're socially distancing is horrible. I don't like living like this.We've been socially distancing for the last 20 years. Since the birth of friendster and facebook all the way along. You posted a picture of your baby up on site. Doesn't tell the family what the baby looks like. You know, try to get around, get out there, meet. I'm from the eighties.And my good friend, Jay Abraham, I always say the good thing about Jay is he brings the eighties back. If wanted to talk to someone and this I'm talking about now. I wanted to talk to someone. I would often send them an email or send them a text and we know about a power text. I would send them a text and go George I'm in your area next Tuesday, do you mind if we get together for a coffee like mid day, is that okay? Or is another time going to be better for you? Now here's the thing, I may well not be in your area, but if you respond. I'm going to be, you know. So, and I would just do that and I would actually force it. I've said to people, look, let's come back to that next Tuesday and we'll chat about it then.And then I've literally turned up at that office and the send Steve's here, and I said, look, I've set up, be here Tuesday, you know, let's chat. People liked that, but also here's the dumb thing that was common because that was the only way we did it back then.Now, it's novel. It's innovative. And here's the thing he shows he Gaz, you know, so I think the bottom line of it is I'm not brilliant at communicating well, we're in a world where people are desperate to communicate. So why don't you try it rather than sticking a post up on?George: And I think too, when you think about it, I think what happened when like Friendster, Napster, Myspace, Facebook, all the things came around is everybody thought that it was a different world, but it was just a tool to create in the world and they utilized it incorrectly and it became. And like I wrote this post the other day. I'm like, the problem is as it used to have, two ears and one mouth. I was like, but now you have two ears, 10 fingers, and you prematurely ejaculate on the keyboard all day and you got to slow it down, but like it's a tool. And I think I've watched people and this is why I love your book. I love what you teach. I love everything that we do together is because. Nothing exists without that relationship. Nothing like you can be meet somebody on Facebook all day. You can like all their crap. You can have them click their ads, you can support them, but you'll will walk up to them in person and you'll have to reintroduce yourself and they'll have no fucking clue who you are. That is not a relationship at all. Not at all.Steve Sims: I've had, I've had periods in my life. And I remember one back in the nineties And I had money and I had stupid fuckin you money. And I remember going into London once and I wasn't even living in London, I was in Livington and that time. And walked into a Ferrari dealership and bought the car with my Amex.You know, literally came out with a brand new 355 on my Amex, Kevin. I was of that standard and then the shit hit. The recession went down or and you know, the funny thing is. Amex never had my bank. You know, the bank that I was with, which enjoyed my fees for years never had my bank. The people that had my back, the people that I fought up was like, Oh crap, this is, this is going downhill. And it's about, and they were like, let's have a coffee, let's see what we can do together. And I suddenly realize it wasn't my bank account that I needed to have been focusing on. It was my equity and credibility, in my relationships, in my connectivity. Luckily it was strong so that I was able to look at the bank and go that is not my friend. The bank is never going to be your friend, but it doesn't matter how much money you have in the bank because you can all guarantee it's going to go up and it's going to go down.Steve Sims: But if you've got relationships, that's really where the power comes through. That's really where it opens up the doors of the Vatican or sends you down to the Titanic or put you on stage with whatsoever. It's those friendships that are key and the dull thing is we've already identified. Relationships are getting harder today. Not because they're harder to make, but because you've decided not to put any effort into it. So we need the relationship, but we're not having the relationship. We're human beings. We yearn for it. And guess what? As we go on, Amazon's going to get smart as Siri or Alexa, we're becoming transactional and then when moaning, because we've isolated, we have no one to talk to. You know, your fault.George: And I actually loved the Spargo. You got them to make your cocktail, Hey, go pick it up and get out. I think Steve, like what I love about you? I mean, I consider us friends even in the beginning when, like I met you. I see these things in these people, in our industry and outside of our industry, walk around with chips on their shoulders. Like first they think their shit doesn't stink. And get away from me. Don't talk to me. Or the other side is somebody is afraid to come talk to them because they literally don't think their shit stinks.And the truth is like, at the end of the day, we're all human. And it's like, you've treated every single person I've ever seen myself included, like the humility and dignity and then like, if I fuck up, you tell me. But not really. You're like, Hey, let's talk about it. Let's go. Let's get in. And it's common practice for you. And what's interesting to me is that most people don't understand that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what business you have, what product you have, what servers you have. There's still a human being, making a decision and spectrum to make a decision with no depth of a relationship.None whatsoever. And so like, I listened to it and like people I watch people like give you the credit, like, he did this probably cause he asked them how their morning was probably it was when he walked by, he wasn't looking at his phone. He was looking at their eyes. Like, there's so many parts of this world that people are screaming for it and I agree with you. I get frustrated right now. Like I'm, I'm online just as much as you are. Everyone's like, Oh, I wish we could get together or I wish they call me back and we'll go pick up the phone and call them, like, send them a text, like build a relationship. So when you think about, you know, relationships in humans, the way that I see it from your side and mine, is every single person I come into contact with Israel relationship. It's a potential relationship. It's a potential touch point. And my job is to improve upon that silence, to learn something about them, to see if I can support them in any way, make an introduction, have a touch point, make a memory. How do you go about like creating relationships, nurturing relationships, navigating relationships cause you're pretty good at it.Steve Sims: So the first thing I do is I'm a selfish prick. I am totally selfish. And we're taught as kids not to be selfish. Usually it's the mum that goes now don't be selfish,share your sweets. Now in that context, that's fine. But today you need to be selfish, especially if you've got drive and ambition. Be selfish and what that means is. Don't waste your timethat doesn't benefit anyone.Don't look after those two. Won't look after you. Don't have someone's back the one of your back. All right. So whenever I get into a relationship and it sounds strange, but I'm very selfish when I get in a relationship and I want to know.Is this person gonna invigorate, entice, scare, motivate smile, make me money, you know, any of those things. And I've got relationships that make me millions of dollars. I've got relationships where whenever we get together, I know I'm paying the bar tab because I'm taking them to the bars I drinking. Not the shit, but they make me smile and they challenge me.So then needs to be a benefit in a relationship. So whenever I meet anyone. And this can usually be assumed. Like, you know, when you're at an RV muzzle, or when you're one of your events, the you've already filtered the caliber of people to be in that room. So you you came to a point go, well, I like George, so I'm gonna like these people, I just need to get to know them.So whenever you speak to someone, we'll go, okay. How is this person? First question. How is this person going to help me? And then before you ask for that help or request, that help bring value to that game. You know, and it may be a case of, Hey, it's really good at you. You joke about the Vatican.It was just down the vote from the Vatican, but when I was working in Florence I had to work with I did a whole thing in Florence where I took over museum and I had a private dinner party in the academia, the gallery at the feet of Michelangelo's David and had Andrea Bocelli coming you know, that story. But when I got there that night now on driver people and up I have security guards for Andrea and for the museum. All right. And there was the doorman. He was like a, not joking, probably 400 pound. Couldn't couldn't have done anything, you know, and wasn't paid to do anything. It's basically like, you know, the shopping mall, you know, security.As we turned up, I went to walk in, it was chilly. And I said to him, I said, yeah we all went all good evening. Then he was even, I was intimidated by you are walking in with Andrea Bocelli in Italy, you know, it was pricey like walking in with Elvis, you know, and he was all kinda like chili and stuff like that.And I said to him, you cold. I think he's like, yeah, just that I didn't, there was a nip in the air and, and, and it's, it can get a bit cold. So I went in and the first thing I did before I paid attention to anybody else was I actually went in and I got a cup of coffee and I took it out to him on a little tray with some creamer and some sugars. And I went, there you go. And he was, would have moon, but you know, the funny thing is when I walked back in everyone looking at me, because I had left all of these big players, these scary security guards, these people with money, and I've gone to pay attention to the security guard.And so then what we did afterwards was I said to him, I said that I don't want to bring it up, but I can see you feeling a little bit guilty that I paid attention to him. And you didn't. Yeah, kind of a big deal in Italy and the planet. Do you want to step outside and just say hello to him? And he was like, I'd love to, and I'd love too. This guy was older.So I was getting paid a handsome amount of money to make this happen yet, the first 20 minutes of that night, we spent hanging around with the doorman.Now the amount of people that actually wrote emailed me found out about me because the doorman, not because of the climb, that when no one knows she's name, I've never declared his name, but that dormant my profile by another 250 people because he went home and he was, and here's the dumb thing. They contacted me. They didn't contact on Jaya. They contacted me because I was the instigator to make it happen. Focus on those people. Like you say, we've all been to events where these people think that bigger than shit. And I've spoken at some of the biggest stages in the planet and I've spoken from Harvard to the Pentagon and the funny thing is you get these people on stage and they want to be left alone backstage. They won't do selfies with the other speakers that are coming through the ranks. And I have always made sure out of my way to get to know every speaker, whether I agree with them or not, or whether or not I like that speech, I can always decide afterwards, not hanging up but I've always got to know all of them. And I've known some of these others have been collide. No, I'm I'm bigger than you. I demand more money than you. And the funny thing is I've been in this game of speaking luxury industry, 10 years in the influence of self-help market, like 3 or 4. And I've noticed some of those small players are now big players and some of are big players are now dull and boring and repetitive, and no one wants them on that stage. So always look after everyone in your sample.George: And the truth is, is that every single thing is a touchpoint. And in my opinion, the way that I look at relationships is whether you, realize it or not is when you touch somebody, it is either progressing that relationship forward or it's regressing it backwards. There's very little neutrality. I'm like you ignore somebody it's backwards. You don't acknowledge somebody. It's backwards. You take the time to have a conversation with somebody it's forward.George: And I don't think most people realize the exponential qualities of quality touch points. Cause like, you know, you and I have done a lot. We've spoken a lot. We've been around this and there's those people that like their shit doesn't stink. Don't talk to me backstage. They didn't book themselves on the stage and they're ignoring everybody. You just take a moment to talk to people around them. They're the ones that are going to go spread the message about you. They're the ones that are going to go do it. Just like you talked about Jonah Berger talks about this and contagious all the time. And I think it, it leads to a really quality point and I love the fact that I want to, I want to reiterate this.You have to be selfish because that means that you are super crystal clear on who you are and what you need, which is the only place that you can actually serve and add value to somebody else to authentically or else it feels transactional or manipulative.And so for everybody who's like, Oh no, like I say it all the time, add value first. Of course you do, but you have to know who you are and be grounded to add that value or else those people can't have a relationship with you. They cannot respond to you because they're going to feel icky. Like in people, like, why do they feel like you were, they're not talking about like, you gotta be honest and authentic with them. Like, that's what I love about it. Like, I have no problem being like, yeah, I'm coming to see you. Cause I need it. She would introduce me to somebody, but what can I do for you first? Like what can I do for you first? And so that leads me to a really, really good point and this is what I love about you is, you're not afraid to use your voice and it's not that you're different for it, but like you understand the power of yourself and authenticity, even your kids. And I love watching everything that you do, but I have so many people that are like, I can't say that. I'm like, why not? And they're like, Oh, what are they going to think? I'm like, well, they're gonna think whatever they want to cause you're not giving them anything else to think right now. Like I never, and I mean, I never ever want to allow somebody else to come to their own conclusions about me, my beliefs, my stance, or where I sit. I always want to be the person that's. It was like, this is who I am. This is what I believe in. How do you feel about that? Think about that. See that in the world for everybody listening to this.Steve Sims: Again, they are for a start that's a calculation Elon Musk and Einstein put together couldn't solve. You know, it's these people that go, well, hang on a minute. I want people to look at me like they're so I don't want to do this because I need them to think of me like that. That's a lot of assets. And I can't understand why people aren't very tired trying to be people who they're not. So as we've always said before, this is me. The way I look at it is there are billions of people in the planet.If 10% of those people are curious about me. And 1% of that 10% do business with me. I still have it money to buy you know? So you haven't got to overcomplicate it. You said before about the snake in the grass, make it impossible to misunderstand, make it so obvious that there's no distraction.Steve Sims: I told when I coach with, with some of my people. About the big C. Now, if you say to someone in, in the world or the big C, they know it's cancer, the big C in business is confusion, and he's just as deadly as cancer. Cause you can't take a tablet to get rid of it. No confused person will ever do business with you.And here's the other bad thing. No confused person. There's just make use, going to turn around and go well, can you explain your stance on it because I'm not getting that. They're not just going to piss off to someone else who's more, more clear about it. So you saying something that alienates this person he's going to grab this person. And if you do it, you'll find that your energy level goes up because you're not spending energy on trying to be someone you're not we're in a very superficial world. And it goes back to the filters where everyone is trying to make out that every single one of that days is beautiful. Sunshine, beautifully. Perfect. And I shift pulled together.No one shits pulled together. You know, everything goes long. Couple of days ago, I went down on my credit score by 115 points in one uptight. And yeah, we've been COVID, I'm being very careful what, with money, I'm reducing my liabilities, paying off my credit cards cause we don't know how long this shit's going to be going on volt. So I'm doing all the good things and I paid my mortgage forward by five months. Cause I thought, okay, I'm going to be, if the shit hits the pan, I got five months to get at it. So I did all of these things. My credit score went down by over a hundred points. for a week. I was like, what's going on? We found out that some of a point, I just seem strangely enough, my own bank and recorded a delinquent account. And I posted it on my account rather than the client's account. So they quickly removed it, but the bottom line of it is for three days, I had no idea what the hell was going on.So the bottom line of it is that even when it's not your own doing shit happens, you know, and shit happens to absolutely everybody. I don't want to waste any of my energy, trying to persuade you to be in my circle. It's here. It's obvious. It's blatant. It's sometimes rude. It's definitely direct. I welcome you into my sandpit, but if it doesn't suit your fantasy, No harm, no foul.George: I love that. And actually that brings me to the point, cause you, you nailed this and we're all kind of here. Like I lost a business in the middle of this right. Supplement company, basically gone. We went from doing 8 million to nothing due to circumstances. You and I both do events. We haven't done events, we haven't done anything. but I think what I've witnessed, Steve is one of two things. Cause I know your phone was ringing off the hook. My phone was ringing off the hook. Like what do we do? And I was like the opposite of what you're doing now, which is nothing. And I'm like, if you stare at a flat tire, it doesn't change itself.And so can you talk about, you know, cause we have a lot of experience, a lot of people falls here. There's a whole lot of uncertainty in the world. There's a whole lot of ambiguity. We don't know what's happening, but we also can't sit idly by and just wait for something to happen for us. Like nobody's coming out to save us. You've had to pivot, I've had to pivot. So how have you gone about that? And like, where are you focusing your time and energy during this uncertainty to create momentum or progress, or even fuck even the possibility of something happening?Steve Sims: I'm going to go out on a limb here and probably piss some people off. I think COVID is fantastic. Hand up. I don't want it to continue. But for the first couple of months, I was like, Game on. It wasn't a case of these people were making money. These people were not, everyone was stopped. Everyone had all of that businesses, no matter what business, it was just ground to a hole. Everyone was in the same boat. And as we mentioned at the beginning, the game was on and it wasn't a choice of asking you, do you want to play this game? You were playing. So did you want to sit on the bench and cry and mope and fricking binge watch Netflix? Or did you want to turn around and go, well, hang on a minute. All right. I'm in the game now, let me see how much I can control and believe it or not, entrepreneurs are a lot more in control of themselves than what a lot of people give them credit for. We all there's functional with disruptors. So the bottom line of it is we've been given this situation.Now I had a couple of weeks where I saw my travel industry slow up. I saw nothing for about two weeks, my team and my staff refund. I showed digits should dive bombers on my bank account. And then I went home. How can I make this work for me and not against me? And the first thing I did was I cleaned up my desk, you know, I know it sounds funny together. Polish my desk, and put everything back on. There was a project that could benefit me, reading books. Redefining my course, I launched a fake shallow plug. I launched a Facebook page. There's free of charge called an entrepreneur's advantage. And I just started bringing people into that. Anyone could join that. I launched a virtual happy hour. Which was the dumbest thing in the world. Well, I thought to myself come far tonight, I like to go out with my pals and just drink a whiskey. Why don't I do it online? And I said, look, do you want to join me on online? And I'll do a virtual happy hour. We had about 80 people join us for watching me make an old fashion. And then we told the most appalling jokes. These really are embarrassing jokes. And you know, the funny thing is. We did that on the second week of COVID and we've done it. We missed a couple of weeks. We've done this for about 14 weeks now, you know, and people are loving it.Steve Sims: The bottom line of it is I realized that needed taken advantage. I've done a lot more,I cleaned up my desk, cleaned up my garage, cleaned up a wardrobe, cleaned up my business. Cleaned up my focus. Cleaned up my intentions, cleaned up by impact. What am I wanting out of this? You know, what am I going for now? The funny thing is, and we talked about speed earlier. There's always a sign that fast is slow and slow is fast. Anyone that's ever been on a racetrack knows that you need to carry a momentum. Not speed. And there's a massive difference. The guy that goes into a corner at 130 mile an hour, going into a, to a 90 degree bend he's off in the dirt.So you've gotta be able to nail your entry speed on your ass and keep the momentum going through it. I've been able to look at whatever I'm doing and tweak and edit. The downside is pre COVID. The world was rosy. Everything was going out. We were doing really well. We were a fast car and the trouble is people tried to keep that speed.When you've got that speed, you can't turn on the next right hand, turn in, you know, you miss it. So if you can slow up and look at what COVID is done, which has put the brakes on and going, okay, where was I headed? You know, what was the brand people were associated me with? What was my messaging? What was my click funnels? What was my next booklet? You've now been given a book, beautiful chance to look in the mirror on absolutely everything you've got. I've been going through subscriptions. First thing I did was I downloaded three months credit card statements and we highlighted all the subscriptions. And then we went to these work for, or against me, or they have no relevance. Get rid of a load of subscriptions. I actually found myself increasing some of the subscriptions. Enjoying COVID everyone wants money. So little trick for you. If you've got any kind of like CRM mail program, web hosting, find out what the yearly package offer is at the moment. I got basically a 50 to 60% discount on all of these things by moving into an annual.So it's all paid up. It's all done. So I'll be very much focusing on mate. I've done something which I've never been able to do before. I've read the classics. You know, how many of us have heard of the book? How many of us have ever read that? You know, I meant the original copy, you know, the original truck, not the edited version. I read original copy, stunned, how relevant and all of it in there. It was talking about the disruption of radio, you know, and I'm think, well, okay, it's funny. Cause it's called radio, but change the word radio to tik tok. And the argument is still the same. It's not a plumb line of it is I read, I read so many books.I got so many smart, I ditched projects that I was working on because they didn't infuse me. They didn't excite me. They didn't arouse me. So I was talking to a client probably better than summary of this. I've got a client mine in Ukraine. And he's a, we'll just say he's a colorful character and leave it at that. But I've reached out to him and I said like, you know, how are you coping? How you're doing? And he was like, Steve, it is great. It is wonderful. And it is great. And I thought to myself, has he been on the drink already? You know? Cause he seems very happy. And I said to him, I said, you know, so I'm glad you're happy, but why are you happy? And he said it, and I think it was 85. We'll use 85 as an example, but it was 80 something he showed in 85. I bought a factory, a manufacturing, a production facility. He said, and there's, there was something like about 200 machines in there. You said factory runs 24 hours a day. Every time a machine breaks, we have to repair it to 1985 standards, because if we made it faster, if we did anything to improve it, it would run out of sync to the other two onto machines in there. So we weren't able, so we have been up, we have been managing and repairing 1985 equipment up until now. He said I was able, because we got shut down just like the rest of the planet, update every single machine. Not only can I produce faster, I guess you can reduce it with better technology, more accurate, more data. I can do way more. And I saved money on the efficiency of it as well. He was over the moon because he and a win in today. Me, I found wins in today. I've always said the richest guy on the rainy, is the guy selling the umbrellas.And now is the time for us to look inwards and go, well, okay, what can I clean up? Because when the green flag goes down and it will, we know where not on this forever, we don't know what it's going to end, but we sure as shit is gonna, it's gonna land. You ask anyone, you think we'll be at COVID someone's going to go.Yes, whatever vaccine will build up shirt, herd, immunity, whatever, but he's going to go away. When that green flag goes down, that is not the time you want to be getting out of checking the oil in the car, getting the car ready. You want to have your foot and hit that first corner first. . And you can only do that by preparation now. And again, I'm going to piss people off. I would like to see COVID last one month, every single year of my life, where every year, just one month the lights go off, we'll get back to our family. We'll get back to the focus and we get to restrategize and read the type the route that we want. Wouldn't that be beautiful. Every year, a month of reflection.George: I can say, honestly, that COVID, who was probably the biggest gift, cause COVID caused a little pain for me today to stop me from going out of business five years from now. Because there were holes I never would have seen. There were things that were tracking that I never would have thought. And quite frankly, I was like, I spent how much money a month on things I didn't use. Are you kidding me right now? Like that could have gone into my children's future real estate business, like whatever the case was. And so, you know, the, the one thing I reminded myself of Steve and my wife's amazing at this stuff. Cause she just, you know, she's a fiery redhead too. It's right in the face every time. And she's like, don't pretend that you don't love this. Look at your life. You love getting hurt. Coming down and proving how good you are. You're an entrepreneur, you love ambiguity. What are you complaining that the world gave you what you asked for? And I'm like, Oh shit. Oh, you're always right. And, and, and it's, it's riddled with opportunity and, and the way I wrote a post about this this morning, I'm like, if you focus on losses, you see losses. If you focus on mistakes, you see mistakes. If you take a step back, you can find opportunity everywhere and it hurts like, but it plugs the bleeding.It gives you an idea of what's there and quite frankly, everybody's comfort zone was like, I'm running a profitable business. It's all working. I'm like you're hemorrhaging. Wouldn't believe like the fact that you can't take a day off for a week off and it hurt me too. I mean, I. I lost about seven figures of deals. In 90 days, I lost the company. I've had to redo everything and it hurt. Like I was down. I was like, yeah, what am I going to do? And I was like, but I have two options, right? Like I either sit here and mope about it and it all comes true or I get up and do something about it and at least give myself the fighting chance.And so, you know, I think it's really awesome. And it's funny. I remembered you were talking about momentum and I'll remind Steve of this. And my 15 year old daughter came to the go-kart track with us and smoked us all. We're all Steve's professional racer, Mike dealer, professional race car driver. I'm here all the time. And my 15 year old daughter just smoke checks and soccer. So she's the only one without an ego there. And she's like, I'm just going to make it around the track as efficiently as possible. And so I love it. So when we think about a lot of this and everything that you said I completely agree with. And it's something that I've had to do as well. And we did the annual thing. We paid things off, but then what I also realized too, is I had this massive opportunity to go deep with people in my life, my business, my customers, my team, that I didn't have the space or time for before.And the one mistake that I've seen most people happen with businesses and entrepreneurship is things got tight and they're like, Oh, I'm here to care about you. But the moment things loosened up again, they went back to business as usual and they tried to go lateral rather than deep. And I think really what's happening is that the people that take the time now, Steve, to go deep in the relationships to actually connect and care, not like, Oh, I'm giving you lip service. You're going to win relationships for life. That would have never had the loyalty you see that they could have under times of stress. People make decisions and emotional times human agency got taken away. At the state of the world. And what people are going to remember is how, who was here, how did they make me feel? How did they respect me? See me, hear me. And so I love you launched the Facebook. I loved by the way, this, the happy hours. Cause I love all your jokes, but I have a lot of people here where you said, and I love this, like you have to go introspective, but once you get there, I think there's a massive opportunity to go deep with your team, with your customers, with your relationships that you couldn't do before.So what are some of the ways that you've utilized that, or you've seen that other people have been successful or things that they can do to deepen that level of relationship in any of those areas?Steve Sims: So attention is the first one. And acknowledge, you know, it's very easy for us to sit here. Me and you have very similar, so it's very easy for us to be sitting here going blah, blah, blah. There are days, mornings to dark of night. There are those moments every now and then when we go, God, I wish this was over. Oh my God, the monotony starting to get to me. Oh my God. Something's going, Oh my God, is this ever going to come right? There are those we all get into maybe now and then, and then we get out again.Acknowledged the fact that your clients are going through the same as you. So you can say that that company, you would not even know in someone you can go without, this is probably stopped. They're probably staring at my bank account a little bit more than they should. All of those kinds of things now is the time you pay more attention because one we're lasting and yearning and desire in that connectivity. And too, everyone's scared. That's not a good mixture for a cocktail. So if everyone's journey connection, give them a connection, you know, and as you say, if you're giving someone a connection, now you like, we open up this Facebook group, we're all, not just under 1700 people that have jumped in there. Why? Because they want hair products from me. No, because they want to buy my shit. No, because we don't advertise it in there. We don't promote it. The bottom line of it is there is a for like minded widows. And as we call them, create if there's disruptors to connect and the things that I've been doing, I sent out a couple of mugs.You go in, you are a fucking volume of sunshine is set on it. I sent people funny notepads that says great ideas while I've been drunk. You know, just all these stupid I sent out stupid little stuff in his little thing. The mugs were $15. I booked 20 mugs with, I am Avaya, fucking sunshine on it. I bought 20 $15 mugs for about $4.99 each.And because the order was over 10, no postage and they've got some, another funny thing is people love it because no one's sending stuff you may have seen. I have a Facebook, my Christmas cards. Have you seen that? Where people have been getting my Christmas cards? Yeah, anyone within my groups, I sent a Christmas card and I said, who sends a Christmas card in July? I do. Why? Because it got you engagement is different. Now you try something different.So I'm urging people to try something different. Now is a phenomenal time for you to get people's attention is everyone's quiet. Everyone's petrified. Everyone's in a coma. If you're out there going, Hey, this is a great book from my buddy. Here's a copy or his like I'm sending, you know, I'm Benjamin Hardy's book. Your personality is a permanent. I'm just getting it all packaged up now to send out about 230 and 50 books. Why? Because that was a great song to me to book, you know, now's a perfect time to you for you to reestablish what you look at as your brand and personality.The smallest amount of focus today. Will lead to the most exponentials as we come out, because why, when you're down, you're the member, who's got your back. All of those people don't have in the bar cheering you on when you've just bought your fourth Mercedes, and you've got more money than God in the bank account. You're not going to remember those name, but when you asss on the line and you're slightly concerned, confused, disrupted, disjointed, distracted. When someone puts their hand down and go, Hey, Let's chat. Let's swap stupid jokes on a Friday night, and we both get drunk together via zoom. Let's have a little phone call and let's both look at your business and see what I can identify. And if you do that, those people are going to remember you not next month when we're at a, COVID not next year, but in 10 years, that'd be telling them fricking kids about ya.George: And the one thing that, and you and I are super similar about this, I, I agree with everything and actually. one of the ways when I get into those moments. Like I've had those moments, like I woke up at 3:00 AM this morning and I was like, all right, I'm not supposed to be up for my workout for two hours.What's going on. I'm like anxiety, banquet. Like I woke up and started responding to comments on social media. I'm like, go help you here. . So one of the things that I do is like, when I get in that state, I don't try to stay there longer acknowledge what's there. And then I go give it away. Give connection, give value, give everything. How do you manage that? Because we have lots of pressure. You run a massive company. I mean, like you started a fucking credit card a couple of years ago. Like you, you're playing a big game. You have employees, you have people, you have funds, you have this, the house, the kid, the cutest bulldog, right things later, along those lines. And we do get hit with that stuff. Steve, there's tons of us all the time that get hit with those moments of anxiety. And sometimes it feels crippling. How do you navigate that? Like what do you do when that comes up to get out of it or to not sit in it wallow and go binge Netflix for, you know, 24 hours.Steve Sims: So here's the funny answer that you may not, you may not expect. But I let it come. You see, I used to be a fighter. Yeah. I used to fight Wishu Kwan, which was Chinese kickboxing. And then I raced motorcross and now I race the Bucatti in race tracks and on all of those things, there was a commonality.The commonality is you broke when you held onto tight. Now we've, someone's getting through your guard and he's going to punch you in the head. If you brace yourself for it, it's going to increase the impact on your nose. If you roll with the punch, still going to hurt, still going to smart may, still crack your nose. But it's not going to hurt as much. When you own the motor cross bikes, especially motorcross taught me a lot. You know, you get on the bike and you're holding on for dear life when you're so good, you bust up your shoulders and those locks bounce you off the bike. But you know, as soon as you let it go, all of a sudden you became fluid and now you can't hold onto the water. It's going to find a way of getting through. So whenever that shit happens, the first thing you need to realize is realize. The first thieng you've got to do is, I got this wave on me. I've got this anxiety. I will actually turn around to my wife and I'll go, I'm having a moment. Don't mean me wrong. Well, I'm just having a moment, I may try and get it out of myself by going for a bike ride or maybe jabbing the box in bag out doing something. Oh my go for a long walk. Oh, Maybe just sit down on my ass, shove a movie on and just leave, let it go. And know that I'm letting it go because I'm just about to get me back when you're holding on too tight, you find you actually accentuate that timeframe and that's when it does most damage, you know, so realize it, respect it, acknowledge it. See pin to it. Let it go. Alright. I add a moment now let's get back in.George: And the wisest Shaman I've ever met in my life looked at me dead in the eye and said, if it's coming up, it's coming out. And I was like, okay. And so now when I don't recognize, I have my moment, my wife looks at me like, Hey, go handle your shit. I'll see you in an hour. I'm like, thanks baby. I'm out. I just listened to it and I get out. And it's important to have those people around you, but I think it's so quality. So Steve, when we think about the current state of the world, whether it's now, whether it's six months from now, I feel like you, and I recognize a ton of holes that exist and just day to day practice things that we can do. So for everybody listening, what are some things that people can do to fortify their relationships, to build stronger ones, to be that neural pathway top of mind, like talk about in 10 years, tell my kids about like, what is it that you carry forward? Like you do amazing things. You pay attention. You know what you're doing, you follow up with people, you make it about them, which is absolutely amazing. But what are some things that everybody listening can do? Like right now, if they're like, Oh shit. And like, now I have an opportunity. I see what I can do. I see where I can go. What are some of the things that you carry forth, that you teach people, you teach your team to put into practice in their relationships or business.Steve Sims: So I would love to help you and say, well, you need to be buying this program or you need to be buying this tablet, or you need to begin this flow on or this CRM, but it's nothing that you have to pay for. You have to pay attention. I have to literally reach out and I've been doing it on all of my stuff, both on Facebook, LinkedIn, my client bank. And the way that I do it is I'm not a technical guy. We've got CRMs because it helps my team and it helps my accountant in the house, my lawyer. But what I did was yet a month is I said, print off. Who's active. Who's been with me for over 10 months. Who's fresh, you know, and, and I've got to, and anyone that's fresh, this joined any one of my programs, I've reached out to them and I've gone. Hey, George, I saw the purchase. My product seems to still be on this day. Why did you do that? And what are you hoping to get out of it? And I've started a conversation.The amount of people that are absolutely stunned. Because they send you cause while you usually get, is, is this one of Steve's team? Is this an autoresponder? And I'll be on my back and I go, fuck, no, this is the ugly man himself. And I'm not just sending, I'd be like, You texted me all. You've emailed me and I'm like, yeah, now let's get back to the question. Why did you waste your money on my product? Because if it's not a waste, what are you open again?And I started confronting them and it's helped on so many ways. And people are looking at their business. It's amazing today. Like my travel business is fucked at the moment. I actually was a Dodo in a Coburn drunk on a Friday night. So that's as simple as that. So you've just got to go.Alright, pocket. Don't put any effort into it. There's no need, I can't book anything. I can't do anything. Leave it alone. So focus on all the stuff you can do. And what we can do is we can connect with people and I've got clients in the travel industry, and then I don't want to be arrogant, but looking up to me is one of the leaders of the private concierge world and not going, how are you surviving? And I go, I'm not. But how am I growing? That's a different question and I'm reaching out to my clients going, Hey, we've all got problems, but what are you dreaming of doing when we came out of this? You know, that was a brilliant time for you to kind of step back and go, well, hang on a minute. Is the new AMG Mercedes really where my focus is? Or is it going out to Utah with my family? You know, do I really want the new Rolex Daytona? Oh, do I want to make sure my daughter really has the best chance of college, even though she's only two years old now, you know, it's now a great time. Noww I've noticed from the trial well industry, every the cycles as erratic and as random as we think we're human beings, we fucking ain't.We have these cycles. Every recession, every political upheaval, every terrible was the time that we've ever happened, straight off to that. Conscientious spending has come in and people have started focusing on threes and not trinkets are often not 11, no one was born rich watches. They would go in away with the family. They were building granny flats on that, on their house. I'm moving the inlaws into that. I'm still, they were closer to the family and that parents could see that kids all the time. You know, we will becoming whole again. And then we diverse out and we get back into the shiny stuff. And then we get political upheaval and we come back again. As soon as we've got out of COVID, no one gives a rat's ass about investing all their money in a GT3. They're going to want to go down to the public. Couple of months down the line. Then I look into that because we forget the pain that we're in.So today is when you got to put your hand out and go, Hey, let's talk. You know, we've got this thing called zoom. We got this thing called Skype. We've got this thing called face time. We got this thing called a fucking phone. You know, let's just spend 20 any minutes and let's just see if either of us are, I've seen opportunities that the other person can't see and just show you care, you will be stunned to what it will do to your relationships and more important. It would acknowledge them and it will cement them. And you don't remember your best mate kicking around sponging off of you at a bar. You remember that time when he had your back in a bar fight or when he was there to fix your flat or what he would came over to help you to a tough time when you were crying, because you'd split, I'll be a girlfriend and it's almost like that's when you submit them relationships.Never the high times I've got no friends that I've remembered from flying around on private jets. I remember my friends where my ass was on the line when they came over and knocked on the door and said, Steve, I've got no money to help you out of the shit you're in, but I can't afford you a couple of beers.And then you'd go down to the pub. I remember a perfect time. What I was in England once and I was up against Dan. I was serious the up against some big money crunch. Yeah. And I had some really powerful people, the contact to me and they went, we're going to help you out. I don't remember saying to them. Great. I need this amount of money. And they went, no, we're not giving you a dollar. We are going to strategize how you can get out of this. And when you can get, once you've learned how to get out of that a million times. But druing that same time, I told you earlier about my friends that go to really bad balls. A friend of mine picked me up in the car, took me down and he said, I'm just going to buy you two beers. That's all I can afford. But it found up some other boys and each one of them bought me a couple of beers. And not one person in that could afford a round for everyone. So they bought themselves a beer and me and then themselves am me. And that's the kind of people we have. And that's the moment you remember.George: It's so true when you think about it. Like the world got pushed down and everybody's like me. And I was like no, turn that around too growth and support. You'll get yours, but this is the thing it's like, it's, it's not about like how good your product is. Like Jonah Berger said, it's actually wrote it down earlier. The world we live in is like, what could I do to try to convince somebody, right? That was the world of marketing. And now. It's why haven't they changed already. What's stopping them. And normally it's safety. It's a relationship. It's a conversation. Somebody actually giving a shit to lean in and get it. And for those of you that are listening to this, if you don't get this, like, this is how business has always been built. Except people got fast passes and excuses to get out because people were buying the dream or the idea. And now you're left with humans. You're left with real humans and by the way, relationships don't build themselves. And Steve. I loved, you know, that whole, that gets me fucker. I got the best message on Facebook. The other day I responded personally. They're like, this doesn't sound like George, what bot wrote this. And I wrote, I opened my phone, a video.I'm like, Oh yeah. I'm like, what would you like me to say, let me read it to you. And they're like, Oh shit, I'm so sorry. I'm and it's my favorite thing in the absolute world. So Steve, just in selflish pug cause I forgot to do this earlier. Where do you want everybody to find you? I mean, I recommend you all the time. Your Facebook group, your book, blue fishing, Steve sends, I mean, you are the guy that's noticeable. I have stickers of your face on some of my stuff, right? Like where does everybody find you?Steve Sims: You see that cup that I gave the other day. it's on my it's on an entrepreneur's advantage on facebook. It's on Instagram and SteveDSims it's everywhere, but. This guy actually wanted something to motivate himself in the morning. And he got a coupon code from Vista print. So what he did was he went on a Vista print and he ordered a mug and a pad with my screaming face on it. And he said, nothing scares him into action needs boarding. Other than he may have a coffee with this bug is fricking hilarious. But you can go to an entrepreneur's advantage with me, Steve Sims that's the, the Facebook group, you know, put your details in there and you'll be let in. SteveDSims is my personal page and my, I'm pretty easy to find any toilet walls. Probably got something written about me, so I'm easy.George: Oh my God. I love it. So if you had to leave everybody with one thing, like to remember to take forward, close it out, what would you leave him with?Steve Sims: My dad was not the sharpest tool in the shelve by far. And I remember one day we were walking through London and he, he was a chain smoker, so he would have one cigarette smoking and another one in his hand, ready to change. There was never a time when he didn't have his hand with one and the other one in his mouth. We're walking down the street and he'd just gone off one cigarette and he was just lighting up the other one before we'd managed to get a renewal in his hand. He put his hand on my shoulder, never looked me in the eye. We carried on slide in and he said, son,No one ever drowned by falling in the water. They drown by staying there with that. He put his hand in his pocket, he got his next cigarette and cowered and walking. I was about 14, 15 years old at the time. And I remember stopping going, what the fuck was that? You know? And I just thought to myself hitting, just consumed like a fortune cookie or something. I had no idea, but sometimes in my life. When it didn't quite go to plan, we get loads of those as entrepreneurs, we get them regular. We get more downs than we get ups. And it's always made me realize , no one's ever drowned by being in here. There drowned by staying there.George: Such a good. I got nothing to say. I'm going to mic drop that one. So Steve always an honor and a pleasure. We are due for a drink in person soon. We'll get some rides through the Kenyans,for everybody listening to this, I highly recommend Steve is somebody. I consider a mentor, whether he knows it or not, what I consume, what I learn, I pay attention. And I'm humble enough to say that I learned from the greats and play the game with them. So go check out Steve follow wherever you follow him. Steve, thank you for being here and everybody we'll see you in the next episode.

Welcome! Craig discusses The End of Flash and what caused its demise. For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Read More: The rise and fall of Adobe Flash National Security Agency warns that VPNs could be vulnerable to cyberattacks Schools already struggled with cybersecurity. Then came COVID-19 Study Finds 15 Billion Stolen, Exposed Credentials in Criminal Markets As Offices Reopen, Hardware from Home Threatens Security Augmented reality heads-up displays for cars are finally a real thing Android 10 has the fastest update rate ever, hits 16% of users in 10 months Twitter breach exposes one of tech's biggest threats: Its own employees --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: [00:00:00] We're going to talk about killing Flash. Did Steve jobs start the death of Adobe Flash Macromedia? Remember all those guys? Hey, you're listening to Craig Peterson and watching me too. I am getting. Good at trying to post stuff on my website and YouTube videos stuff that is, and I've been updating all of my studio here and it may look kind of the same behind me here on the camera, but believe me, there are a lot of differences. We're fixing things, I'm producing more stuff. We are going to be having a great, great. year this year, as we get more and more information to you, just like in the last segment here, where we were talking about DNS and what it means to you and how frankly, this Microsoft bug could be the next big ransomware attack vehicle out there. Absolutely amazing. [00:01:00] Well Flash, of course, you all know Flash, right? I don't need to really show you Flash. It was designed five years ago. Give or take right now maybe a little bit. And the idea behind Flash was let's give the internet some movement. If you weren't around back then in the mid-nineties, the internet was mostly text-based. There were all a whole lot of what we would call brochureware sites at the time. Back in the early nineties, I was, I tried to convince businesses they needed to be online and people just weren't listening to me. It's just not worth the investment. Right. [00:02:00] Of course, now it's people are trying to figure it out. How can I do this? How can I get online? And many people's questions, revolved, run hugger. Make this. More pretty. And that's how Flash kind of started the story on it is absolutely fascinating. And I have it, my website@craigpeterson.com. It goes on for pages and pages, but how these two guys, they struggle. They, I had some success in business. They sold the company eight years. They're trying to figure out what should we do? How should we do this? They kind of stumbled on a couple of things that just did not work at all. They went to a couple of big trade shows and sold absolutely none of their product, which was, has sketching product for some of these early. PDA portable digital assistants that were out there is really kind of a cool product. They only ever sold two of them, by the way. So they tried some things. So if you are an entrepreneur and you are sitting there saying, OMG, it's not selling, I'm not doing the right thing. Everything's coming to an end. [00:03:00] A friend of mine, Steve Pavlina sent out note just this week that I read that I really, really appreciated. He was talking about how we have to stand up for our principles and, and he was specifically talking about our principals, when it comes to our life and our life values, what do we want to do? How do we wanna do it? When do we want to do it? These two guys never gave up and they didn't know exactly what they wanted to do, but they didn't know they wanted to do something. And they wanted to make sure that while they were doing it, they were enjoying it. Right. I guess that makes sense. Certainly seems to make sense to me, as well. So that's exactly what they did. They, they went out and they tried a few different things. As I said, it took him about eight years. Then they came up with this thing that allowed animation. [00:04:00] And if you remember around 96 is when some of this animation really started to hit we're using Flash or are websites where the entire site was coded up using Adobe Flash and Adobe Flash was really cool. It did some wonderful things, frankly. I was quite impressed with it at the time, and I decided I'm going to learn Flash and maybe fly. She's going to be my future as well. It was, it was really cool. They got a review from a writer in a magazine and they don't remember the writer's name, but the writer got a preview copy of it and said, Hey, listen, why don't you add some port for buttons, which was easy for them to do so they quickly added support for play button, fast forward button, rewind buttons. And then they started adding more programmatic stuff to it. And before you know, it. Flash took over the web. And that was kind of around 99, when a foot had graphics that were moving any sort of video, it was all Flash-based. In fact, a lot of the streaming video that was happening back then in the early two thousands was based on Flash, which is really kind of different when you think about it nowadays. Right. [00:05:00] Things went well through the, the arts, if you will, the double ops here at the beginning of the century for them. And they kind of sold out and moved around and Adobe ended up owning it and integrating it with some of the tools that Adobe had, then came 2010. On April 29th, 2010, I've got that right in front of me here. Steve jobs published an open letter. He called it Thoughts on Flash. This was probably the beginning of the end for Flash. Now Flash was already known at the time for some security problems because it was really an almost an operating system more than a programming language. It allowed them to access stuff on the computer, make some changes, move things around, read files. [00:06:00] Does that start to ring bells for you? About how dangerous Flash just might be? Well, it was, and Steve jobs brought that up in his open letter. And he also said in that open letter, the number one reason max crash is Flash. So Steve jobs was complaining about reliability problems, about security problems and about performance problems. We remember what else happened 2010? The iPhone happened. And Steve jobs is working on that. And he decided right then and there that frankly Flash falls short. And those are, those are actually Steve Jobs words, Flash falls short, and it was never included in any version of iOS. So it wasn't on the iPhone. It wasn't on the later introduced iPad. Absolutely nothing. [00:07:00] Well, the industry response was kind of mixed because there are a lot of people who had decided yeah. You know, Flashes the way they had big investments in Flash and they couldn't see it going away. But in November, 2011, Adobe pivoted and adopted the new standard. The one that Steve jobs was promoting than the rest of the internet was behind, it was called HTML five. HTML five allowed your browser to basically act like an operating system. It can actually run multiple programs simultaneously for you, and it could do all of the animation and more than Flash could do it. Could display videos. HTML five is the answer we're still living with today. A decade later almost. And. When Adobe decided that we're not going to be targeting Flash players anymore, but all of our tools, which were originally developed for Flash by these guys. Those tools are now adapted to use and spit out if you will, HTML five. [00:08:00] So did Steve jobs killed Flash? Well yeah, kinda, he started it. But I think Flash, Adobe killed it itself. Certainly in November, 2011, Adobe switching over to its HTML five was a very big deal. They didn't keep up on patches. They didn't keep up on the security problems, you know, and they kind of did, but it was, was the stepchild problem that you have, they just didn't care enough about it. Which is I think a real problem, some great quotes in this article, again, up on Craig peterson.com about what they were doing. They were saying, Hey, listen, this is causing bloating as well. It's not working well on mobile devices because mobile devices don't have as much computeing as a desktop computer does, not even close and they have to use battery. [00:09:00] And so you're doing something heavy, like interpreting Flash on a browser. That's running on Java. That's being interpreted. I know on a little snap dragon chip or whatever, it might be on an Android device. You're really slow and you're really hogging resources. So Flash is gone burry it it's dead. It is no longer supported in many browsers. And by the end of 2020, it's going to be completely gone. Even from Google Chrome. Wow. We are going through fast today. When we get back, we'll get into Google here and how they're getting sued again for tracking people, even though they said they're not. Yes, indeed. Make sure you go online right now. Craig peterson.com/subscribe and we'll be right back. Stick around. --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Feeling scared to go back to school or work? What about Church? This has been a crazy time for us all. So Steve and Christian and back to share 4 keys to staying healthy during the coronavirus pandemic (and as public place begin to reopen). They even made a companion journal to the episode. The journal offers guided questions to help you stay healthy: mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Get your free "Healthy Human" PDF here: https://mailchi.mp/goarch/be_the_bee_144 Are you anxious for churches to reopen? Are you feeling scared? Leave a comment and share how you're doing.

Feeling scared to go back to school or work? What about Church? This has been a crazy time for us all. So Steve and Christian and back to share 4 keys to staying healthy during the coronavirus pandemic (and as public place begin to reopen). They even made a companion journal to the episode. The journal offers guided questions to help you stay healthy: mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Get your free "Healthy Human" PDF here: https://mailchi.mp/goarch/be_the_bee_144 Are you anxious for churches to reopen? Are you feeling scared? Leave a comment and share how you're doing.

Bourbon and ham, is that a pairing you would expect? To be honest, neither did I. I’m a sucker for killing a plate of prosciutto at a dinner party, but thanks to our guest Steve Coomes, we’ve discovered a new love for country ham. When done right, the saltiness of the ham just hits all the right spots. We sit down with Steve as he talks to us about a past life as a pizza judge (yes, a pizza judge!) and then we get into hams. The diet of the pigs, curing processes, and even his professional opinion of those ham legs you see hanging inside rickhouses. I think it will surprise you. Of course, it wouldn’t be complete if we didn’t do a bourbon and ham pairing. Try not to salivate too much. Show Partners: You can now buy Barrell Craft Spirits products online and have them shipped right to your door. Visit BarrellBourbon.com and click Buy Now. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Whiskey From Home: WhiskeyFromHome.com Show Notes: Bourbon in a Decanter: Does is go bad? https://advancedmixology.com/blogs/art-of-mixology/does-bourbon-go-bad-in-decanter This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Derby. How did you get into spirits writing? Tell us about your bourbon and ham parings. Talk about your culinary background. How do you judge a pizza? Tell us about the hams you brought today. How do you come up with the pairings? Are the pigs fed a specific diet? What is the difference in the thickness of country ham and prosciutto. Tell us about curing. What sizes do hams come in? What flavors are you looking for when pairing? How much does this ham cost? Where can you buy country ham? What do you think about hams aging in rickhouses? 0:00 That country ham industry is its own worst enemy, many times and understanding what it needs to do to make itself look on par with Italian cured hams. Yeah. My wife it's charcuterie. She's like, Oh 0:11 yeah, you say it's like oh no, no way. It's like 0:28 Welcome to Episode 251 of bourbon pursuit. I hope you all are hanging in there with your quarantine here, because I know right now, mine's looking pretty Shaggy. I'm due for a haircut. But before I get to the news, I want to tell you once again about whiskey from home with the help of some of the best names in bourbon. We're doing a five and a half hour livestream of whiskey soap entertainment on May 2, starting at 12pm Eastern. So right now go to whiskey from home calm and get your free ticket there sessions on bourbon history. The best Bourbons on the shelf right now. Blind flights how to hunt for great bourbon, a virtual food pairing with Peggy no Stevens and a virtual bourbon tasting with our good friend, Fred MiniK. The shopping list for everything that you need to follow along. Is it whiskey from home calm, so go there. Check it out. It's a free event. So come and spend your Saturday afternoon with us. Now, bourbon into decanter doesn't go bad. This is a question that was asked and answered with extensive research from advanced mixology calm. After you buy a bottle of bourbon, how should it be stored? does it stay preserved for years or even decades have left on open? What about the canning of bourbon? Can it go bad then? Well, it all comes down to aeration, and without giving too much of it away. You can read all the answers to these questions to the link from advanced mixologist calm in our show notes. For today's podcast, we talked about bourbon and ham. Is that a pairing that you would expect? Well, to be honest, neither did I I'm a sucker for killing a whole plate of for shoot, I was at a dinner party. But thanks to our guest, Steve Coombs, I found a new love for country ham. When done, right, the saltiness of the ham, it just hits all the right spots. We sit down with Steve, as he talks about his past life as a pizza judge, you heard that right up pizza judge, I mean, talk about a dream job. But then we get into hands, the die to the pigs, curing processes, and even his professional opinion of those hand legs that you see hanging inside of Rick houses. I think it's gonna surprise you. Of course, it wouldn't be complete if we didn't do a bourbon and hand pairing. So try not to salivate too much. All right, don't forget it whiskey from home calm, go register and get your free ticket. If you haven't had a chance yet, go to barrel bourbon.com and you can get cash drink bourbon, whiskey, rye and rum. All delivered direct to your door. Just look for the Buy Now button at the top of the page. All right. Now here we go. Yo, here's Fred minich with above the char. 3:04 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char. I'm a little sad right now. I'm actually really, really sad. We've had to cancel bourbon and beyond. I think many of you all know that. But that's the festival that I co created with Danny Wimmer presents and COVID is forcing a lot of cancellations, especially in the music world. What's gonna happen to the Kentucky Derby? No one really knows. But this Saturday would have been my 13 Kentucky Derby in a row to attend. And I'm just sad because that piece of that that moment is gone. It that it's gone. That piece of culture, that piece of celebration. And it's not necessarily about the horses. It's about the gathering of the people the smoking of cigars, a sipping a bourbon, seeing my wife go through, you know, 15 thousand different hats before she chooses one. So many great moments I've had over the years. I want to share one with you. Now, if you followed me you know that I've, I was a guest of the governor last year and I've been a millionaire's row and I've been around the celebrities and all that. And a lot of people be like, that would be that would be the one that would be like the one memory that you would want to take away when you think about your experiences as the from the derby. I've also been a photographer on the derby. I was on the finishing line in 2008 and got some really beautiful photos of a Belle's before she passed away. And yet, that's not it either. Now, my favorite Derby of all time, was when I was in Peggy know Stephens box with with my wife. We were just pregnant. We're just getting out of that first trimester where we could start telling people you know how it is if you've been pregnant? Well, I've never been pregnant. My wife spent pregnant but I say we as in like, you know, family, and you get out of that first trimester and you're so excited to tell people and we're Catholic. So that first step is always like, Alright, who are going to be the godparents? So it was on Derby Day, like, two, three years ago, that we were in Peggy's box and we asked Peggy, if she would be the godmother to our son, Julian. And she cried, said yes, of course. And it was just a magical moment. It was a wonderful celebration. And then I think I lost a couple hundred bucks on the race. But there's no replace in the derby. We can't replace that. That's just a magical, magical moment. If you've ever been, you know what I'm talking about, but we're doing something that is as good as we possibly can present right now. And that's whiskey from home. It is an amazing lineup of bourbon personalities. And I hope you will join us all day Saturday. As we drink bourbon as we talk bourbon, we're going to be streaming across the interwebs. Unlike any time before, this is the first, this is the first time my knowledge that we've ever seen something like this a virtual conference in the bourbon world. And my hat's off to Kenny Coleman. He's just done such a good job, you know, stepping up and getting this thing going. On the back end. I'm trying to get all the streaming stuff set up. And Ryan's going to be making cocktails and you know what, I'm going to try and make them alongside him. So I cannot wait to see how this goes for everybody. And I hope you will join us. It's this Saturday. I'm sure Kenny's already talked about it, and you're going to hear more about it later on. But it's going to be a great time is it going to replace the derby? Nothing can replace that in our hearts. But what it can do is it can help us get us through the fact that we are missing missing the greatest two minutes in sports. So that's this week's above the char. This one came from the heart. If you have a heartfelt story about the Kentucky Derby, hit me up on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or go to my website Fred medic comm and send me an email. I like reading those kinds of stories. Until next week, cheers 7:23 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, the whole team here today we've got bourbon and we've got ham where we talking pigs and bourbon today so this is this is something that I know Ryan and myself we're big barbecue guys, we got our green eggs, you've got your drum, you've got all kinds of things so terrible, but yes, it's a better omen. Yeah. And you know, for me, I love I love charcuterie boards when I go out to restaurants to can't get enough a ham. And I mean you remember we were talking about going to North Carolina you're talking about the gym. Oh, and ham. Is that what it is? Yep. 7:56 Yeah, the Serrano Hamza Oh, the ham on Hello. Yeah. 8:00 hormone 8:00 that's a source that's your jam on or GMO yeah 8:03 Jay Michael Jackson working there. 8:04 It's the jam the jam and ham. cured meats are like you're talking about love language and I used to raise pigs I used to raise pigs so like this is like ham to me is like it's what I grew up with. We used to raise do rocks and Berkshires and everything's kidding 8:21 yeah I had my Linux I knew you're in the hug business you ever notice had their day their pig in the mud? Did everyone pay the pig you know in the mud? 8:28 Yeah, we made them yeah, we literally like I'd had to clean them all the time because they would get it get really bad and we had some we did have some some hampshire's as well. I had like, like one of these really nice prized hampshire's, and the damn thing died when it touched concrete like it was it was a carrier of what they call a stress gene. And one of my big contributions to the hog community is that I donated him to science instead of eating him 9:00 After he died, you get a tax write off for that or something. I 9:04 don't you know what I think we did, but if they actually they've cured they've bred most of that out there. 9:09 Yeah. And you can't eat them unless you cause its death. Right? If it does that on its own, you gotta 9:15 take there's any rules on 9:19 that to show up live to the budget, 9:22 whatever it sounds delicious. So if 9:24 you hit by a car, I think that seeing well we don't want to know how the sausage made, you know, no pun intended. 9:29 Who knows we might get back into that action today and kind of talking about cured meats as well as we go through here. But you've already heard our guests today. So today is our guests. We've got Steve Coombs. Steve is all over the place. He knows about pigs. He knows about bourbon. He's been a writer for bourbon Plus, he's also an author. He's been a contributing writer for bourbon and banter. So Steve, welcome to the show. 9:49 Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. 9:50 Yeah, so I mean, we kind of talked a little bit there but let's let's kind of talk about some of your your bourbon cred. You know, how did how did you get into actually start writing and kind of Knowing and exploring the spirits world, 10:02 I always call this the confession moment in that I was probably 4748. before somebody got she was the tourism director in Bardstown. And I was down there doing a story for Southern Living magazine, y'all remember Don crystal? Oh, yeah, Don, Don said, we pulled up to heaven Hill. She said, Steve Coombs, you get out of this car right now go inside and do that tasting said you're not going to do an article on my town without tasting some bourbon and believe it or not honest truth, it really clicked that day. It was funny that 92 proof larceny lit my mouth on fire to the point of numbness. And I mean, and now we're drinking barrels, barrel strength, dry, you know, it's no big deal. So I got hooked on it literally just because of the culture. And of course, watching Fred, Fred and I worked many years ago together and seeing what it did for his career and becoming attracted to the characters in the business. My gosh, I mean, I've written about the culinary business for 30 years and never had Have I found such a concentration of friendly characters in one single business? And you especially talking about how rough it was in the wine industry, you know how snobs were in that like you didn't want any more involvement with that the low ego part of this businesses just you know gold for writers don't think yeah, 11:15 I mean the the characters are amazing. I remember that time in your career you You called me I've really how did you get here? How did you do that and all that and I and it for me, this has always been easy because of the of the people and at the time, you were like thinking about, you know, teetering with tequila a little bit. Remember I was and I still love it. But it's a whole country away. 11:38 And here we live in the country of bourbon country, and it's right here and you can drive to barks down to 15 minutes and be interviewing the geniuses in the business or Frankfurt or, you know, Larkspur, 11:49 one of the great things that you've done is that a lot of people come into, into in bourbon and they just, they kind of repeat the same stories. You know, not a lot Have people you know, try to go outside of what's already been done. And you've kind of you've done that. And I've been telling you for a long time that people want to be, you know, learn more about ham and the pairings of it and now you're doing seminars on it and everything. So how did that how did that start? How did you develop this whole new platform that really no one's explored Really? And this ties back to you? Hopefully you remember the answer to this gotta stop this kiss fest over Yeah, 12:27 it is. Yeah, all right 12:30 later, but let me let me say this. he mentored me 15 years ago when we really started he was your supervisor. He said your light just like today? No, I'm kidding. 12:40 I'm totally kidding. 12:41 I was always on time. You were I told him that the company didn't really tolerate that crap and you still ended up military and you just show up on time? 12:47 Yeah, that was that was back when I was still falling a little bit my military code now I'm 10 minutes late to everything cuz I just don't care. Fred. Fred 12:54 called me in July of what was it? 2014. You said that a publisher called Do about doing a book on country ham? That's right. And you said I don't know anything about the subject but I have a feeling I know someone who does. And he called me and he said call the publisher and see if this will work out for you. And I wound up writing that was my is my It was my first book country ham, a southern tradition of hogs salt in smoke, which came out the year after that. And so by then I'd already begun enjoying bourbon and I'm tasting it just like we're gonna taste today. It was late night it was it Believe it or not, sounds so fake, but it's really true is midnight, I was editing the book and sipping it and tasting it with this. Oh my gosh, this works really well together. 13:39 Yeah, it's a match made in heaven. 13:41 Oh, exactly. In and that's really where it kind of clicked. But Jay Denham, who is one of the great cures and Kentucky who's moved back to Cincinnati, had come to me, we're friends. We're talking ham and he said, you know, we should do a big whiskey and hand pairing some time and somehow or another led to the bourbon classic. And we did One with have not had been hell I'm sorry Jim Beam. And it was a hit from then. And ever since I've been doing a lot of these tastings My gosh, we've got six books already this year through March out of town. And it's a lot of fun to spread the gospel of both I mean, pork gets a bad name the United States and this is this is really good stuff that we don't try today. The other other white man and he is really really read me forgot that tagline. Yeah, so horrible. I kinda want to rewind it back to you even a little bit more here. So kind of talk because you were you were a chef previously in your life too, right to kind of talk more about your culinary background. So I my mother was a good Southern cook but never did understand restaurant food until I had to start paying my tuition at St x and my parents said you know, times are a little tight you boys need to get some better jobs if you're gonna keep going to say next pay for it. So I start working and fine dining. And it was the restaurant that really gave Louisville its own restaurant boom was called Casa goes on. It's long since gone. But that was the first place that I tasted really, really good fresh fish, real asparagus, Hollandaise, all these kinds of things. And I realized that was wired for the culinary industry. didn't know what I wanted to do when I graduated college and was stuck watching the chef's and thought that looks interesting. I'll try that. I wanted to be a writer. I've always wanted to be a writer, but I was an absolute terrible manual typewriter typist, mine was the last class at St x in 1982 that use true manual typewriters. And the best I ever did was 32 words a minute. And that wasn't gonna fly at a newspaper. About five or so years later, I got a laptop. It was an IT WAS AN NTC multi sink if anybody remembers it, you guys are toddlers 15:43 weighed 11 and a half 15:44 pounds when that one had like a real floppy like the five and a 15:48 half inch floppy? No, not that 123 and a half no hard drive. And that was the first time that I ever discovered that word processing allows you to correct your mistakes and like well maybe I can do this thing after all. And then so I started writing about the rest Strong industry that was 1991 I still do it not nearly as much because of, you know, publications like yours and, and I'm really digging the spirit scene but to be in it this long and have gotten to travel to really neat places in the world, just writing about food has been a treat and I'm in a food town. So it's been a good career. I let me let me add something to this. He was the editor in chief of pizza today. And then he later was the editor, editor of a website called pizza marketplace. And Steve was a god in pizza around the world. And if you think about pizza, it's like its own sounds delicious. Anyway. 16:44 Steve likes too skinny to be like, doing all this food cookies, but 16:47 he would he would write about these like pizza dough throwing contests and it'd be like Italy versus United States or Canada and that was going on when you're there, man. And it's just it was just it was fun. For me from a career perspective, that was the first time I had ever seen anyone cover a beat very uniquely, and that I've never told you this, but the way that you own pizza gave me a lot of like motivation, you know, to, you know, to discover, you know, in that or in the early times in my career to find what I could like your neck hat, find my niche like you did. And like, he was a god and pizza. If you Google Steve Coombs, you know, we put the quotation marks around it, and then pizza, you'll find a lot of his old stuff and it's beautiful. I kind of want to talk about both. I know 17:41 I kind of talk about pizza just for a second. So kind of talk about like, how do you judge a pizza like in your mind when you were going into judge a pizza like what how does that how does that work? 17:50 there? It's It's the last contest that I did for a long time was in Columbus, that client I was telling you about that I had been up there was the North Custom was a minute American pizza contest can't recall but we judge it on crest quality Christmas. You would look at what you know the rim of the crest which at the time is called the corny God or the cornice. And you'd look for the texture of the dough. You judge it on the the flavor of the sauce how it presents itself well with cheese you don't want to slide off. That's a problem. He looked at the ratio of toppings with sauce and crust. And when you look at the marketability of it is this thing really something that would sell in a in a pizza restaurant or do the guy just make it up on his way in and then do you do thumbs up sideways? Thumbs thumbs down? There wasn't there was there were 38 judges in this contest to manage you know, the volume of pizzas that were coming through. So you really did have to have a rigorous pizza quickies now it's a bookies. Yeah, we could Yeah, yeah. So it was it was pretty rigorous judging, and I'd seen a similar system in Italian I'm sorry in Italy, but uh, it's basically based on what you know, making the Italians win. What's their system What style do you prefer? Like? 19:03 Okay, I really do. 19:04 Yeah, me Neapolitan, New York. Go neck and neck. Yeah. And I like that salt mine like a Pete not pizza. Taco foldable floppy. 19:11 Yeah, there seems to be a trend right now of people bashing Chicago style pizza saying it's not really pizza. It's just like a big like a lasagna. Yeah, it's 19:20 Are you in that? Are you No, not at all. That that's it's a derivative of an Italian version of pizza called torta pasqual Lena which means Easter tart or torte. And it was basically you know, the deep dish and they would put another layer of crust over the top and it was it was like kind of like we will roll out a big lasagna for celebratory event. And and that's the way it was treated. It wasn't the Italians don't see pizza as a slice after slice thing. Like we eat it here. I mean, we're committed. These dudes have had an appetizer, some wine, the little bit of pizza, then, you know something afterward. We look at Pizza as a whole meal sometimes our meal. Yeah, no. So 20:01 kind of goes back to that old saying like, any pizza can be a personal pain if you want to try harder. Yeah. 20:06 Yeah, yeah. So 20:09 they would look at that at a pizza that size and say, Man, that's for 10 people. 12 people, you know, and we look at it sometimes they will you get two friends. Yeah. 20:22 All right pizza pursuit come to you in 2021 Yep. All right. So let's let's kind of head and kind of dive in here with with what we have in front of us. So kind of Tell me Tell us a little bit about like what you brought today and variations and why you chose this. 20:34 So we have a couple of hams before us today. And I like to focus on people who use the very breeds that Fred was talking about having raised years ago. Heritage breed hogs because the quality of the meat is higher. The fat is much more present. It's better marbled, there's a better cap like this area here is called and you get a much better balance of flavor and texture. encoding a lot of the things that we talked about with bourbon but only presented in a solid form. I also when I did the book several years ago, I really got to taste a lot of country ham and these specific cures are the one that I ones that I really like to use in presentations. I have found that their meat tastes best with whiskey out of you know many others, partly because of the fat partly because of the complexity that's gained in aging just like bourbon. 21:26 Yeah, I was about to ask like how what what the rigorous process of testing all that was like to be able to figure out exactly what would pair well 21:33 and what no more rigorous and you guys sitting at the bar, just tasting lots of different things and lugging it somewhere in your memory or Notepad. It's just tasting and tasting, tasting and tasting and think it through. It takes it again like bourbon, a little goes a long way you don't need a ton of country hand three ounces, a country hand would give you your full RTA dose of salt, so you don't need much of it. But I've really gotten to where I'm very fond of this first hand nearest us is from the hammer it in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. This is a guy who his name is Bob woods and he's the one that coined my favorite phrase that he used in presentations and he said, Steve, country ham Ain't nothing but hillbilly prosciutto that's what it is. A traditional ham is cured basalt only a country ham is cured with salt and sugar and various other peppers if you like but that's basically the difference 22:26 now these particular pigs you talked about that are worth or they spent a specific diet or they just like you know, in Italy I've seen you know, the swine are fed like a corns only and like massage Do you know? sure that's the procedure department hawks, but they do like to let him get out and free range and did you guys or did you have to keep them in pens or it varied? 22:49 You know, there were some breeds that we would like kind of roam Chester hogs were ones that we would let roam around. You could kind of trust them and they were diggers. They route the hell out They were real readers. 23:02 Very what's rude or mean? Guys? You gotta understand. 23:05 They stay with their nose. I'm gonna say slay 23:07 their noses into the ground to get at grubs and such. Right, 23:09 right. Yeah. So they and they also like to get a nice cool spot to get underneath there. the Berkshires were runners. And so like, if you let them out, there's a pretty good chance that coyote would get it, you know, because they would go out in the woods or something. And they do rocks for really, they were just kind of lazy. They didn't really want to do anything. So even if you open the pin up, they'd be like, yeah, there's a lot out there and I got this water bucket. We're good. 23:35 I love the accent do rocks. Because here in Kentucky me Derek now. Yeah, same spelling, 23:41 just like him. Oh, and and Jim. Oh, well. 23:44 What's fascinating about that is that we would buy hogs from all over the all over the country. You know, because we were competitive. We were showman we were competitive, you know, trying to win jackpot hog shows and stuff. And you go to you we'd go to Illinois, which Illinois had like For a long time, they had like the best genetics for hampshire's and everybody was trying to get a little bit of Hampshire in their in their breeding processes. And they would you would go there you couldn't even understand and they'd say hag, you know, the different enunciations of the breeds? It's fascinating you can it's one of the few kind of light words where you can tell where someone's from, based on how they pronounce breeds. Yeah. And if you look at all they're all most of the of the breeds come from like some kind of European You 24:33 know, when did when you said free range so like, I'm trying to think like a, you know, a cow, like if you have grass fed beef or versus like corn fed corn fed, like much more fatter, like, more flavorful for me anyways, whereas you get grass fed, it's kind of more grainy, kind of earthy kind of flavors, is that do they do the similar things with pigs or? 24:52 Absolutely, I mean, you can you can tell the difference and it just tastes this against some neutral pork sometimes if you cured it, and you do. If we didn't have that diet to begin with, it's not going to influence the meat 25:05 in a thing to that they do with with all animals in, it's very prevalent amongst swine is that they actively add antibiotics because these things are always getting sick. You know, if one of them gets, you know, some kind of flu or some kind of cold, it could wipe out an entire herd or a farrowing house, which has all the piglets in it and you you lose your entire investment so that a lot of these farmers will actively add antibiotics into the feed. And so like when when you hear someone talking about free gain free range or natural or a lot of that means is that they're getting a feed that is not as you know, doped up if you will, and also like they're able to see 25:52 the mo corn thing for you know, hang their hat on that you know, but does it make a difference in the you know, antibiotics versus not any biotics with the meat flavor. 26:01 I've never heard anybody yeah say whether it just always I think it's a no better than I sure 26:07 I think a lot of that also too when you look at this a lot of like ham and sausages is about the processing. So very few people are actually are actually just getting the you know, getting the getting the meat from the hog, you know slicing it and cooking two of them, you know the same way everyone's doing a sauce or they're doing a special cure. It's very it's not like before you can cut you get two steaks, slap it on there, cook it up, and you can tell you know, it's very it's very different with this because much of the art is in the curing and I'm fascinated to me. I'm very fascinated with the art of curing because we go into warehouses and Kentucky, you know, bourbon warehouses like will it and you can see these little, you know, hams just kind of in the rafters. We won't talk about that. 27:00 Alright, we'll see you later. So 27:01 yeah, I want to talk about Yeah, no, I have my opinion on that. 27:05 Well, let's go ahead we'll come back Let's taste I don't know let's let's definitely taste I kind of want you to kind of talk us through, you know what, what we have and like what we're pairing it with. We already talked about what we what we have and then we went on, despite what your brothers 27:16 told you. So what are we left or so let's go with the front one, the one closest to you. This is from the hammer. This is an 18 to 20 month old hand it's called a tin Shuto. So I'm like Fred. I like to hold it up. I like to see the marbling in it. Oh wow, I've never done a efficient Oh wow. 27:33 Can you imagine being do i mean i don't know if I've ever gone to a restaurant and then like I never seen anyone, 27:38 anybody. I don't do that in a restaurant. They bring a light to this and make me a flashlight. 27:42 That smell I mean, I guess like I'm not using 27:44 this particular ham has huge Parmesan cheese note to me, but it also has that very Porky note that barnyard note that I love Parmesan cheese is definitely there on Yeah, for sure. And it's like to lay it right on my tongue. 27:56 I've also I don't think I've ever gone through and like tried to I mean, dude, I'm assuming since you do this and you judge you try to do the palate tasting and trainings like it's the same way you do with a bourbon you're sitting there you're looking at the color you're looking and you're actually smelling it you're nosing it the same way you would do with a whiskey or something like that. 28:12 Believe it or not the way they judge ham contests you don't see the internal part of the ham it's never cut to look at it is in Italy they typically use a horse's cannon bone and they kind of sharpen it down to a point in they stick it into the near the H bone of the ham to see if the thing is properly cured because you know instantly about that aroma that comes out a stick it in the stick through their nose and say yea or nay. And that's one of the criteria for judging here in Kentucky is is that thing properly cured and so you put it in a couple of parts of it the Beavis and Butthead joke in the butt face of the ham. And so they're checking on aroma. They're checking on appearance, how it's trimmed. Typically a country ham is smoked so that The way that is colored is important they don't want they don't want to just super mahogany like Western Kentucky cares will do that sometimes it's not 29:09 a favorable the typical to use mahogany wood for no or they use all different okay oak is really common 29:15 I'm sorry hickory Hickory, Hickory. Okay. So yeah but it's much more superficial than you would think they'll probably palpate it you know smash around some but it's not nearly as intense as you might think. But taste that with the toasted which is on the left you know it's gonna love This is Lauren when she added this guy's like smacking our lips we're gonna do and 29:36 she's always never do that. 29:39 I sound effects 29:40 is if this didn't have enough brown sugar on its own. It's really bumps it up. Andrea Wilson at makers not talk about when we do these pairings we want to compliment, contrast or elevate when we make a pairing. Compliment means they go well together. Contrast means they make each other interesting. Elevate means each makes the other better. And I think this is a 30:05 pairing appearing that elevates so why go with the the toasted on this one? What was the? What was the significance behind that one just 30:13 it's a simple approachable whiskey. I mean, it's it Who doesn't like toasted? It's not my favorite of the mixtures line but I really really like it. And it just pairs well with food. I've paired with a lot of foods and you think you guys can jump in on this with me, but for some reason, their line the mixtures line pairs better than any and I'm thinking that there are two things that are noticeably different from everything else we've done. And that's low barrier entry proof and low proof in the bottle. And for some reason that seems to result in a really good pairing food. I don't know if you've ever thought that through But 30:51 no, I mean, I guess with alcohol overpower. Yeah, I would say that's probably 30:56 but I think everyone's different to you know, some people have you know, burned their power. What's out they need that barrel proof all the time. I wanted to ask you a question about about like the the the the sliced country ham always feels sticker to me then prosciutto and I when I was in I was in Italy and I was at a price Judo place and they had me go up go behind and cut they they let me cut and I used actually did the bone and when I cut they were like you're too thick Get out of here. So it wasn't that thick it was like this but so why why what's the difference between like you know the standards of the thickness? 31:40 What do you get if you mix Seattle craft, Texas heritage and Scottish know how that's to bar spirits to our spirits traces its roots to a ranch in rural Texas run by the founder, Nathan Kaiser his family for six generations. Nathan grew up on the ranch was stories of relatives bootlegging moonshine, and after moving into Seattle, he wanted to keep the family Traditional life any opened to bar spirits in 2012. They're very traditional distillery making everything from scratch and each day starts by milling 1000 pounds of grain. Their entire product lineup consists of only two whiskies, their moonshine, and the only bourbon made in Seattle. Both bottles are being featured in rack house whiskey clubs. Next box. rack house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club, and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer racquel ships out to have the feature distilleries finest bottles, along with some cool merchandise in a box delivered to your door every two months. Go to rack house whiskey club.com to check it out and try some two bar for yourself. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 32:49 What's the difference between like, you know the standards of the thickness In contrast, I think it's a great question 32:57 in the United States and certainly in the south. In United States where country ham is most prevalent people don't eat it and people I say eat it raw No not yet rots cured it is chemically and physically transformed into a shelf stable product so it's cured it's not raw it My mother was one of many who just abused ham country ham and would cook it to you probably had it Ryan in Barcelona baseball leather consistency and intensify the salt it was just overwhelming absolutely no fun but when I did this book I can't tell you how many people how many cures did not like it like this. They they thought that this is kind of like it with a little red add gravy or whatever and like this is the best expression Yeah, this is the barrel proof barrel strength expression of their product 33:50 or essentially throw it in a sandwich with tomato and you know let us in pickles. 33:54 Well done like well yeah done like that. I've enjoyed it too. It Nancy nuisance place I think I posted a photo A couple days ago of it but yeah Fred This is the shark eatery cut that really shows to me respects the the product and its natural best and did you cut it with I not like you're talking about like off the the hammer itself I'd still be doing it to try to get these things done you got to be an expert or an expert to do that I can do it but I'm slow I have a commercial slicer in my house. Oh 34:24 nice and then I know what I'm getting at Costco next commercials 34:29 I'll help you find one on the on the US market will be a lot better go where one out with a ham 34:33 I got a question after you cut yes or no because it's cured do you have to do anything to like seal it to preserve it or how do you preserve it after you've already cut into it? 34:42 Well, before we started you probably saw me taking it out of those vacuum packages that just do that but 34:47 oh you and I'm talking about the actual whole ham. What do you do with that after? 34:52 I like to break it down into as large sections of muscle as I can both to make it easier to slice But to do is you say get it into a vacuum package and and seal it that way so that the more muscle integrity you have the better it's going to be preserved I can keep them in a refrigerator or a freezer for a long long period of time and they're fine 35:13 What size do these typically come in when say you want to go buy like a hammer 35:17 so a country ham depending on the maker or the cure, I should say starts out at about 20 to 23 pounds green weight is Joe recall that to green that seems to be industry and industry time. And what's that? What's that mean though? It means fresh. Yeah, fresh 35:35 jiggling way so it's basically like trying to buy like an eight ounce filet or an eight ounce steak and then you cook it and then it 35:40 but that's been that's probably been dry aged for a little while so that this this thing was only King you know, 48 hours ago. 35:46 All right then. So remember my role and stray from butter dogs. It was just it was raising them. Put them on a truck and say goodbye. Give me the check. Yeah, once they were done, I was don't name them. I did name a couple of 35:59 yeah But But yeah, they'll they'll shrink to about if they start out at 22. There'll be ready it, you know, at about a year at 17 pounds so they lose. That's their Angel share, you know them losing that moisture to intensify the flavors that are inside the ham and to trigger I'm trying to think of the garden it's an enzymatic reaction that that really makes the meat shelf stable. All that works together and it works together because the place we live just like bourbon is so good here because of our climate. The same thing happens to hams that you know that once you hang them outside and let them be subject to the weather. It's amazing. Now there's not that many places in the world that you can do this. 36:44 Well I've never I've always wanted to get into like curing my own ham or something like that. Because I know a few people and a few different bourbon groups and that's like one of their kind of like side projects or side hobbies assisting 36:55 at 89 guy yeah, he's got some good ones going 36:58 yeah. So with the One 37:00 of those in my refrigerator home All right, 37:02 perfect. So I mean, so talk, I mean, because I don't even know like, even the process of how you would even start doing that, hey, you'd have to require the leg, but be like, what, what's that? What's the next step in that process? 37:13 It's it's pretty crude, frankly, it's, you trim the trim away certain parts of the hand to make it look good. And you rub the hell out of it with carrying salt. You know, I mean, you're sticking in every little nook and cranny because you want to get that salt in there to penetrate to the bone and push the way with and push the water out essentially. As cures would say it's a race to the bone if if, if bacteria gets to the bone of the hand first, you've lost your ham if if salt gets there first you've got a cured ham. And what it does, basically is created by getting the water out it starves the bacteria, that's what they need to thrive. And that's all the salt does is pushes it out. And of course flavors it very deal 37:58 to I just did the second premise. I'm sorry I jumped ahead 38:01 I couldn't I did it too oh my god it's perfect oh my god i mean it was it was funny like going into this you know I have a I have a little bit of I don't want to say a criticism but I have a little bit of that that kind of I hold back a little bit be like oh can you really pair like ham and bourbon together holy shit yeah you can 38:20 say that's so fun about this is to see that happen and people you know the scales fall from their eyes they go really 38:27 you can do this well I mean it's in I think it kind of just gives you a little bit more you know a benefit to hear to say like okay, you were able to show me like for me to sit there and say like, I don't even know where I would go and find a different kinds of handy and start experimenting with around here. But if I did, and I came down here my basement I started pulling, you know, Jefferson's reserve, I started pulling Booker's I pulled you know, whatever, you name it across the line and tried to figure out like, how did these pair I don't really know if I'd be able to do that. So I guess when you're doing this, what are some of those new wants his or flavors in a ham or a bourbon that you're trying to pair with a particular Wang Kenny. I wish I could French it up and give you some fascinating answer. But it is mostly trial and error. But But the key 39:14 attribute that I want from the ham to actually from a country ham is fat content to coat the palette and smoke a little bit of smoke in there. Salt is everywhere it doesn't matter the to AI know how to cut the the hand correctly so choose correctly. So really it's it's fat. And one of the virtues of a whiskey that pairs well is that it cleanses the palate. Yeah, and and this this so what we tasted here just a second ago that Fred and Kenny cheated on wisely. was a 24 month old Broadbent country ham. Yeah, broadband done from a Berkshire hog. Yeah, Burke charade. Yeah. And it's just as there's no app That's it. This is one the the the company's won the Kentucky State Fair country ham championship 18 times out of 53 or so. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Welcome back to the show everyone, on this episode we start off with a classic ghost story submission. A little girl sees a boy crying and says he just wants to go home. But no one else sees this little boy crying or even hears anything. Then we dive into a story that was sent our way. It was an email of an UFO and we were simply asked to talk about it. We had no information on it at all. So Steve hunts through the internet and finds a little about the photo we received. But that turns into more sightings and an abduction story from 1987 that has produced a possible picture of an alien. Thanks for listening stay safe and stay weird. Check us out on Facebook and Twitter @holoskypodcast, and Instagram @ theholoskypodcast, keep up to date on current episodes and content, partake in online discussions and debates.   If you have an experience of your own you'd like to share with us please do. You can email us at holoskypodcast@gmail.com or call us at 1-877-800-HOLO (4656) and leave us a message.   Thanks to neogeo for the music featured in this podcast! You can and should check him out on soundcloud and youtube.   http://soundcloud.com/neogeo   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFLxmyWNRtaNqdAr9Fuw7Bg  

During this podcast, we sit down with Steve Barlow of NWTF and associate Travis Rogers of Corteva. These two gentlemen represent large groups actively working to increase the conservation footprint around the country, but specifically within power line and gas right of ways. These clearings transect large blocks of timber and offer great opportunities for diversity. In the country, over 14 million acres of right of ways exist. That is a huge resource that offers an incredible amount of land to positively impact game and nongame species. Currently, large land management companies are using mechanical means to keep the right of ways cleared. However, experience tells us that woody regeneration will come back in quickly. So Steve with NWTF and partners like Corteva are demonstrating that appropriate herbicide applications to control the woody resprouts will increase biodiversity on these 14 million acres. In essence, NWTF is putting early successional plant communities back on the landscape in a big way! The group is doing big things for game populations such as wild turkeys, bobwhite quail, golden wing warblers, and cottontail rabbits. If you are not apart of the NWTF at this time, please take time to join this group that is putting serious habitat on the landscape. Save the Habitat. Save the Hunt by becoming a member of NWTF. Enjoy.Learn.Share!  Sportsmen's Nation is Powered by Simplecast

During this podcast, we sit down with Steve Barlow of NWTF and associate Travis Rogers of Corteva. These two gentlemen represent large groups actively working to increase the conservation footprint around the country, but specifically within power line and gas right of ways. These clearings transect large blocks of timber and offer great opportunities for diversity. In the country, over 14 million acres of right of ways exist. That is a huge resource that offers an incredible amount of land to positively impact game and nongame species. Currently, large land management companies are using mechanical means to keep the right of ways cleared. However, experience tells us that woody regeneration will come back in quickly. So Steve with NWTF and partners like Corteva are demonstrating that appropriate herbicide applications to control the woody resprouts will increase biodiversity on these 14 million acres. In essence, NWTF is putting early successional plant communities back on the landscape in a big way! The group is doing big things for game populations such as wild turkeys, bobwhite quail, golden wing warblers, and cottontail rabbits. If you are not apart of the NWTF at this time, please take time to join this group that is putting serious habitat on the landscape. Save the Habitat. Save the Hunt by becoming a member of NWTF. Enjoy.Learn.Share!  Sportsmen's Nation is Powered by Simplecast

I sat down w Steve Roche, who is bar manager at Company Brewing (our workplace), runs the label Confluence Records, and spearheads the Milwaukee Underwear Bike Ride. He has been involved in the Milwaukee hardcore scene for quite some time. We drank Space Whistle IPA (my personal favorite from work) as we discussed Steve's involvement w Milwaukee music then and now, the live music atmosphere Company Brewing has to offer, his record label, good Milwaukee food, and the community built through the bike ride. So Steve, when are we hitting Maya Ophelia's??? --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/ben-slowey/support

On this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy and Smart Podcast, I welcome Steve Anderson on the show to discuss leadership coaching. Steve is an Executive Coach with Orange Dot Coaching and the host of the Podcast, Profiles in Leadership.  He is a former Board of Trustee for The Foundation for Physical Therapy and was the President of The Private Practice Section of APTA for 6 years between 2002-2008.  In this episode, we discuss: -Why you should invest in a coach -The importance of outside perspective when you’re pursuing excellence -How to be open-minded and gracefully accept constructive criticism -Redefining your daily operations with purpose and vision -And so much more! Resources: Steve Anderson Twitter Steve Anderson Facebook Steve Anderson LinkedIn Orange Dot Coaching Website Episode 197: The Graham Sessions with Steve Anderson Profiles in Leadership Podcast Optima: A New Health Company   A big thank you to Net Health for sponsoring this episode!    For more information on Steve: Steve Anderson is the ex-CEO of Therapeutic Associates which is a physical therapy company that consists of 90 outpatient clinics in Washington, Oregon and Idaho and a major hospital contract in Southern California.  He currently is an Executive Coach with Orange Dot Coaching and the host of the Podcast, Profiles in Leadership.  He is a former Board of Trustee for The Foundation for Physical Therapy and was the President of The Private Practice Section of APTA for 6 years between 2002-2008.  He was awarded the most prestigious award the Section gives out annually to a physical therapist, the Robert G. Dicus Service Award in 2010.   Steve received the APTA Leadership Advocacy Award in 2006 for his efforts in Washington D.C. and Washington State in the legislative arena.  In 2012 Steve received the Distinguished Alumnus Award from Northwestern University Physical Therapy School.   In 2016 Steve was awarded Physical Therapist of the Year by PTWA, APTA’s Washington State Chapter.   Currently Dr. Anderson works with business executives and their teams to improve their leadership skills and coaches them to improve communication skills and working together better as a team.  He lives on Hood Canal in Washington state near Seattle with his wife Sharon. Read the full transcript below: Karen Litzy:                   00:00                Hey Steve, welcome back to the podcast. I am happy to have you on. So thanks for joining me today. Steve Anderson:            00:07                Well, thank you Karen. I'm very happy to be on and I'm looking forward to our discussion. Karen Litzy:                   00:13                Yeah. So last time you were on, we talked about Graham sessions and we'll have a link to that in the show notes to this podcast so people can kind of go back and learn more about that. But today we're going to be talking about the importance of having a coach. And first I'll swing it over to you if you want to kind of describe what you do as a coach and maybe what is your definition of a coach because there's a lot of coaches out there. Steve Anderson:            00:45                Okay. So what I am is I'm an executive coach and so that means that I deal mostly with leadership training and communication skills and things like that. So what I do specifically is I work with people that are running companies, CEO types, and executives that are in leadership roles. And so helping them develop their leadership and communication skills. But then I also like to work with teams. And so I have clients that I work with, the CEO and their executive staff on how they can communicate together and how they can work better as a team when they're trying to run their business and grow their business and so on. So that's pretty much what I do. You know, but the definition of a coach is just somebody to help you, you know, figure out. Steve Anderson:            01:40                I think what happens is we are in a very complex world and in our businesses and so on that they get very complex. I think a coach can help you simplify, look at things and simplified a little bit, help you kind of get out of your overwhelming rut, so to speak, and how you can start to look at things that are the smaller pieces and put that together and then just learn how to communicate with others and grow your business. And in a sense that doesn't seem so overwhelming or overpowering. I see a lot of my clients in that mode of, they're just, they're just overwhelmed and they've just got so much to do and so many things to look at that they don't really know what the next step is. Karen Litzy:                   02:27                Yeah, I hear you there. I definitely feel like that on almost a daily basis. Now before we kind of go into a little bit more about coaching, just so the audience gets to kind of understand where you're coming from. So you are a physical therapist and you owned a multisite practice, but let me ask you this. You could have retired and just kind of spent the rest of your retirement hanging out and you know, relaxing. So why make that shift to being a coach? Steve Anderson:            03:04                Sure. So I was a physical therapist and came up through a company called therapeutic associates where I started out as a staff therapist and then I became a clinic director and eventually became the CEO of that company. And it had a very unique ownership structure in the sense that every director of every clinic in that company is an owner in the company. So I was certainly not the only owner in the company. I was one of many owners in the company. And so when I retired, you know, I retired fairly young, I guess when you look at what age people retire these days. And so I thought, well, you know, what do I want to do from here? I don't feel like I'm ready to just do nothing. And so I kinda did the soul search and say, what are things that I really like to do? Steve Anderson:            03:54                And when it comes right down to it, what I really liked to do is I just really liked to grow leaders and work with people as they're going through their journey. And so, I went and got certified in a program called insights discovery, which is a communication system or style and started reaching out to people and I've got some clients and worked with them and learned, you know, how to improve and get better at what I was doing. And so now I do it on, you know, certainly a part time basis. I'm not doing this full time by any means, but it brings me joy. It feels like I have a purpose and it's something that I just really look forward to doing. Karen Litzy:                   04:39                I think that's such a great transition from the work you were doing as a physical therapist to the work that you're now doing as a coach. And for me, it gives a lot to think about because oftentimes, especially as a physical therapist, I know I felt this way when I graduated from college was, okay, I'm going to start working for a company and then I'm going to work there until I retire. And then that's it. So oftentimes, you know, it's hard for us to think far ahead, but being able to hear stories like yours I think can inspire a lot of people to say, Hey, wait a second. Like there's more to retirement or there's more to when, maybe whenever it is, you feel like your clinical work as a physical therapist is maybe run its course that you can use your physical therapy degree and you can use information, you can seek out new information in order to start a whole new career, but you're still firmly rooted in the physical therapy world. Steve Anderson:            05:43                Right. I think you bring up a really great point in the sense that, you know, you don't, when you come out of school and you start your profession, start your career, you know, you can't see often that thing that you want to do. In other words, it's hard to visualize what exactly I want to do and what exactly I want to be. And I see new professionals coming out kind of tortured with that a little bit. Like they wanted to do something but they can't see it other than just the day to day. You know, we're working with the patient. So I can just share my journey a little bit in the sense that, you know, I was an orthopedic physical therapist and I worked hard at being good at that skill and then I became a director and I realized that I really liked working with the team and working with people and people don't always, they think I'm just messing with them when I say this, but I was kind of a reluctant leader. I didn't go in thinking that this is what I want to do, this is how it's going to look. And, I just kind of evolved into that leadership role. And then as I took steps going through my career, all of a sudden I was voted to the CEO of a very large company at 41 years old. And to be honest with you, I was scared shitless. Karen Litzy:                   07:03                I mean, I would be. Steve Anderson:            07:06                Yeah, I was excited to be in this position, but I'm like, Oh my gosh, I mean, you talk about imposter syndrome and I was like, what do I do now? Everyone thinks I'm going to have the answers. So at that point I didn't really know what coaching was or what coaching services wasn't. As a matter of fact, it was fairly a new concept to have a coach. And so I didn't have an opportunity to reach out to one and I didn't really know what to do. And so when I look back on that time, gosh, I could've really used a good coach. And so what I did was I looked for other ways to try and improve my position or my skills. And so I took a few college level or I mean graduate level MBA courses and they were okay, but they weren't really, you know, just resonating with me too much. Steve Anderson:            08:01                And so then I eventually found this group called Vistage and you may have heard of that, but that's an international group where they have CEOs that work together usually 12 to 15 in a group. They meet on a monthly basis and they basically just learn from each other and help solve each other's problems. And so it's like a group coaching, so set up and I was in that for seven and a half years and really, really learned a lot from that because I had, you know, peers to bounce things off or like could get vulnerable with you. Got to know him really well. And, I think when you can trust somebody and work with someone to get to that level of vulnerability, I think that's where the learning really takes place. Karen Litzy:                   08:50                And that group that was multidisciplinary group, that wasn't just specifically for therapists or even just for health care, is that correct? Steve Anderson:            08:58                Exactly. In fact, I was the only CEO in that group from healthcare. And then they make sure that there's no competitors or you're not competing with anybody in that group. And so you start out kind of with people you don't know. And over a period of time you start to know and trust each other. And, and over a longer period of time you can really, you know, really get down to things that you have a tough time talking to most people about because you've really gotten to know these people. So I look at that as kind of a coaching relationship and the fact that my clients that I work with now, once they get to know me and once they trust me, you know, they can tell me the thing that they're afraid of or they can tell me the things that they don't know, without looking weak to the people they lead or without, you know, being their fear of, you know, people thinking maybe they don't really know what they're doing, but they can share that with the coach. And then we can get down to the real nitty gritty of that and what that means and how to work through that. Karen Litzy:                   10:08                And it sounds like you were able to take what you learned there and combine it with what you learned through your career and then the extra courses taken after retirement to kind of hone your individual coaching skills in order to better grow your clients. Steve Anderson:            10:30                Right. And I think the emphasis on that scenario you just discussed was the experience. I think the experience you can't buy experience, you can't, you know, like when I look back on mistakes I made when I had less experience, you know, I wish I could go back and do those again cause I think I would do them a lot better. But yet that's how you learn. So hopefully a coach has the experience to help you, say this happened to me and this is how I went through it. And, and this is how I can see you maybe, you know, getting there. I do question or scratch my head sometimes when I see, cause I do see business coaches that have never run a business. Steve Anderson:            11:18                So that always kind of makes me feel like, well, you know, I want somebody who's been in the trenches. I want somebody who has worked through this before and can help me see some ways through it as opposed to someone who's just read a lot of books and knows all the catch phrases and the authors and so on. But I think the experience is the key there. And if we look at it from the clinical side, you know, if on the clinical side as a physical therapist, we probably refer to it more as a mentor, maybe then a coach. But same thing there. You want somebody who has experience and who has seen, you know, tens of thousands of patients and has that experience that you don't have that can help you maybe see through some things from their experience. And to me that's what makes it a really good mentor and a really good coach. Karen Litzy:                   12:12                Yeah, I would agree with that. 100%. And you're right, there's nothing worse than seeing coaches advertise their services and they've had a business for less than a year. So, let's talk about pros and cons of having a coach. Let's get practical here. So what are the pros? So if someone's out there looking for a coach and they're on the fence, what are some pros to having a coach? Steve Anderson:            12:43                Well, again, I think I said a little bit earlier, but I think a good coach can help you simplify what you're trying to accomplish. You know, I think a good coach can look at a complex situation and help you make it simpler. You know, coaches can be your external eyes and ears and provide a more accurate picture of your reality and recognize fundamentals that you have and that you can improve on. And then just breaking down some actions that you do to make them more practical. To me, one of the things that I work a lot with my clients with is it seems so simple, but communicating with others is so powerful. And if you really know how you communicate yourself or what motivates you and how you come across, and then you really get to know the people that you're communicating with and what resonates with them, then you construct your language and you construct your behavior in a way that connects with them. Steve Anderson:            13:51                Because I can think that maybe my approach is I totally get it and I totally understand what I'm saying and I can look at the person across from me and they're looking at me like, you know, so I'm not connecting with them. So I have to know how to communicate that. And, you know, as we talk about it here, it seems simple, but I think there's a real skill to that. And I think there's a real ability to kind of craft your message in a way that connects with people. Karen Litzy:                   14:26                Yeah. And I think whenever you talk about relationships, whether it be a personal relationship, a business relationship, the thing that tends to break it down more than anything else is lack of clear communication. Right? Steve Anderson:            14:47                I was just going to say, and it's like if you look at your family or you look at your people in your business, I've always believed that you don't treat everybody the same. I mean, you have to be fair, but when we're talking about communication, in other words, the way that I would approach one employee could be very different than another depending on who they are, and you know, how they communicate. And so I think a really good leader is able to go in and out of these different styles, I guess, of communication that resonate with that person. And it's not the same for everybody. Karen Litzy:                   15:29                Yeah. And it's funny, I was just about to bring that up because I was going to ask you a question of, let's say we'll take a scenario here. You're the CEO of your physical therapy business and you've got two people working in your front desk and you've got four physical therapists, and let's say you, I don't know, you notice that you have an unusually high cancellation rate with your patients unusually high. And so you kind of want to get to the bottom of it. So how you would speak perhaps to the people working at your front desk may be a little different than how you would speak to the therapist because they have different roles in your business, right? Steve Anderson:            16:18                Absolutely. You have a different message for them. And, even when you look at your four physical therapists, let's say, out of those four physical therapists, you have an analytical person who thinks in very analytical terms. Well then the way to approach that would be to talk about the cancellations and no shows from a data perspective. You know, here's the numbers. Here's what it used to be. Here's what we want it to be here. You know, so you talk in very analytical ways. You may have someone else that has a real, you know, that they have more, they have a real caring about people in their feelings approach. And so you might talk to them about that situation and don't talk about analytics, but you might talk about, look at what our patients are missing. Look what we're not, we're not reaching their potential. We're not, you know, touching their hearts, you know, or whatever. So you talk more in those terms and then, other people, you will have different approaches. So I think that you have to know your people well enough to know that sitting in a meeting with six people, I'm giving the exact same message and expecting all of them to embrace it and have it resonate with them all at the same time is probably unlikely. Karen Litzy:                   17:35                Gosh, it's so much more complicated than it seems at the surface, isn't it? Steve Anderson:            17:40                Well, it is, but I think that that's what most of us feel. And that's where I think a coach can come in and say, okay, it’s complicated, but we can make it simple. It's a step by step, day by day thing that we can break down. And then it's just like anything else, once you understand kind of the process, then it's practice and you just practice and you practice and you get better and you make some mistakes and yet you do some gaps. And yet, you know, you put your foot in your mouth. Sometimes you learn from that. And over time that's where experience starts to build and improve. Karen Litzy:                   18:17                Yeah, I guess it is. Once you have that framework, can it become sort of a plug and play kind of practice thing? Steve Anderson:            18:28                It's good to break it down as simple as possible, but you're also dealing with humans. So just when you think that you just wouldn't, you'd think you've got it figured out. Someone will throw you a curve ball that you didn't see coming and so then you're going to have to, you know, readjust. But, it can be done much better than I think most people do it as just a general statement. You know, there's a great if I can put a plug in for this, a great Ted talk by Gawande, who most of us know who to go on deals and the title of the Ted talk is want to get good at something, get a coach. And he goes through the scenario of how, you know, he is a surgeon was thinking that he was doing pretty well and he improved and he improved. Steve Anderson:            19:20                And then he got to a point where he just couldn't, he felt like he'd hit his limit. He just wasn't improving much after that. So his question was, well, is this as good as it gets? Is this how I'm going to be? And I'm pretty happy with that, but you know, does that mean this is where I'm at? And then he decided to go back to Harvard medical school and hire a retired professor who was a surgeon and had him come in and watch one of his surgeries. And as he's doing the surgery, he says, Oh man, I'm killing this. This is going so well and I probably just wasted the guy's time and the guys and my money. Cause what's he going to tell me? This was going great. And then the guy came back with a whole two full pages of things that he could work on. Steve Anderson:            20:09                And he was kind of taken aback from it at first. But then he started doing that and he said, and I broke through that limit. I mean, he said, I'm a way better surgeon now. My infection rates are down, my outcomes are better. You know, and that just proved to him that anyone has a coach. And then he looks at the sports world and says, why is it that the number one tennis player in the world and the number one golfer in the world, they still have coaches. If they're the best, why would they have a coach? Well, because they need that extra eyes and that extra set of ears and so on to kind of help them break through the next level and the patients. And so I do think that that all of us could benefit from a coach or on the clinical side, a mentor. And I just think it's a really good way to spend your time and money to get to the next level. Karen Litzy:                   21:01                Yeah. And, I love that you brought up that Ted talk. I'm familiar with that Ted talk. And you're right, it just shows that even when you think you're at the top of your game, to have that external eyes and ears on you because you don't know what you don't know. And so to have someone there to point that out in a constructive way and in a way that is going to make you improve, I think is the key. I think opposite, but as the person. So if I'm looking for a coach, I need to be mentally prepared for that person to maybe tell me things that are going to make me feel uncomfortable or that might hurt my feelings. I say that in quotes. But I think you have to be mentally prepared for change. Would you agree with that? As far as the people that you have coached in the past. Steve Anderson:            21:55                So, yes, you're exactly right. You know, as people that educate and all different ways, we know that the person who's going to learn something has to be in a position that they're ready to learn. In other words, they have to be open to the fact that they have to look at themselves and be willing to realize that there's things to learn and they need to be open to suggestion. And so, yes, I have had some clients where, you know, they kind of thought they were just doing really great and, you know, our discussions were more like them reaffirming, you know, that they did it right and that this is how it should be and whatever. And you're kinda on the other end of the lines, like, I'm okay, so then why am I on this call? Steve Anderson:            22:49                You know, so it's almost like they're using you to reaffirm to themselves how great they are. That has happened. But, it's rare. It doesn't usually happen. Usually the people that I work with are people that want to work with me because they want to get to the next level. They know that they and I don't really have any clients that are horrible at this. You know, it's kinda like Gawande said is it's people that are really functioning at very high levels but just want to get to the next level. And so, I think the people that are really bad at it are so bad that they don't even recognize that they need a coach or they can improve. I think the people that are the best clients are the ones that are functioning at a very high level. But no, they could maybe just get a little bit further, a little bit higher, if they had a boost or if they had somebody that could help them get there. Karen Litzy:                   23:48                Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And now we spoke about the pros. Let's talk about the cons. So I think maybe we might've just said one con that if you're not ready for a coach, then it might not work out so well for you. And that's coming from the person who's seeking. Right. So, yeah, I think you have to be really ready for it. And if you're not, then maybe it's not the right time, but are there any other potential cons that you can see? Steve Anderson:            24:19                Well, I think that, you know, the, the obvious one is it costs money, you know, and it takes time. You know, so, the way that I would answer that is yes. But then also, you know, look at how much money PT’s spend on con ed and going to conferences and things like that. That takes a lot of money and a lot of time too. So it is just a priority. And, you know, I believe that the return on investment, so to speak, is very high in coaching. Because you really are getting that one-on-one approach. So, and then the other mistake that I see people make sometimes is, you know, I work with a client for awhile and then they kind of say, Oh, okay, this is great. Let's stop now and I'm going to go work on this stuff and then I'll get back to you when I've had time to work on it, practice it. Steve Anderson:            25:15                And, I think that that's okay. But I do think that sometimes, just having a person continually working with you, even if it’s a lesser frequent time interval, I think it is good to reinforce that because it's hard to just take all this information and then drop everything and then just work on that without step-by-step approaches along the way. You know, it's kinda like I would make a reference to working with a patient that if you gave them a whole bunch of exercises and then say, okay, when you get all these exercises perfected, then come back and we'll go to the next one. Well, you can imagine what those exercises look like without some coaching along the way. If you returned in three months and said, okay, let's look at the exercises, you likely wouldn't even be able to recognize cause they changed them or they haven't done them. Right. And then they kind of, you know, one thing leads to another. Karen Litzy:                   26:12                Right. Or because they don't have the accountability, they don't do them at all. Steve Anderson:            26:17                Yeah, that's true. Karen Litzy:                   26:18                Right. So I think that's the other part of the coach. Steve Anderson:            26:22                Coaches will help you, you know, be responsible to help you, or be accountable is probably a better word. Karen Litzy:                   26:32                Yeah, absolutely. Cause I know like I have certainly done continuing education courses and things like that and you learn so much and you're all gung ho. Then a couple of weeks later you're like, what? I haven't been doing everything that I learned at that course or I haven't been as diligent let's say. Steve Anderson:            26:58                Yeah, exactly. Right. And, I think the other thing that's kind of scary when you start any new thing is that you've probably heard of the J curve. You know, whenever we change behaviors or we try and improve on something, we kind of go in this J curve, which is, if you can imagine what a J looks like, a capital J,  you start at a certain level and you dip down into the bottom of the J because you often sometimes get worse before you get better. And so it's that struggling time and that fumbling time and you just can't quite, you know, get it then, then you kind of come up on the other side of the right side of the J and then you reach a higher level. And so some people are unwilling or don't want to get into the bottom, bottom end of the J because it's frustrating. Sometimes you struggle and so, I mean some people would just rather, you know, go with the mediocrity and just keep going solid without the struggle. But sometimes you need to jump off the cliff and then get down into that lower J curve a little bit before you can really improve. Karen Litzy:                   28:09                And I think it's also sometimes if you've had this level of success, let's say the, you know, high level executives or entrepreneurs who have multiple six figure businesses, you know, they have this certain level of success and I think you can get a little complacent and you can think to yourself, well, I am doing well, I'm already successful. What do I need a coach to help me get more? Like I'm there already. I've made it. So what do you say to that kind of comment? Steve Anderson:            28:41                Well, it just depends on what you want to do. You know, earlier in my career there was this Harvard business review article that was kinda, I used it as my management Bible cause it was, it just resonated with me so much. And the story was about the owner of Johnsonville sausage. This was in the day of Johnsonville sausage was only a Wisconsin company. And people who's constantly knew about it, but no one else knew about it. And he described how he was making ridiculous amount of money. He was really successful. He was just, you know, kinda on the top of everything, but he couldn't leave the factory without people calling them all the time. He was working horrendous hours, you know, all these things were happening. And so on the outside you would look at him and say, wow, he's so successful. Steve Anderson:            29:37                And then he went through this whole series of changing how he did things. Then in the title of the article is how I let my employees lead. And he grew leaders within the company and they took on the security responsibility and accountability. And so, you know, the end of the story is, is that now Johnsonville sausages, there across the country and probably international, he works less hours, makes more money and is happier and he's ever been. So, you know, I sometimes, as you said earlier, we can't always see what the other side looks like, but we just have to realize that there could be a better way. And then there could be a bigger prize at the end if you’re just willing to go down that road. Karen Litzy:                   30:22                And I don't know many people who would argue against that. I think it's right. I mean that seems like it makes a lot of sense why to have working a little bit smarter, maybe still working hard but at least working smarter and making a better impact on the world, making a better impact with your patients. You know, being able to grow your business or your practice and seeing more patients help more people. So I think that another misconception when it comes to I really need a coach is that the coach is just for you and that no one else is going to benefit from it. Right. But that's not true, is it? And on that note, we're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsor and be right back. Karen Litzy:                   31:13                Are you interested in a free opportunity to check in with the latest thoughts of other rehab leaders? Well, I've got one for you. There's a new online rehab therapy community designed for the intersection of the clinical and business sides of rehab. It's the rehab therapy operational best practices forum, catchy name, right? It's all about habits and initiatives that juice up your attendance, revenue, workflows, documentation, compliance, efficiency and engagement while allowing your provider teams to keep their eye on the prize. There are patients and outcomes. I personally believe that a better connected rehab therapy profession has the power to help more people jump in, subscribe and join the conversation. Today. You can find the rehab therapy operational best practices forum @ www.nethealth.com/healthy. Steve Anderson:            32:06                It's certainly not true that your influence and who you work with and who you touch on a daily basis will greatly, you know, benefit from you being better at your job. And a lot of times it comes down to just helping you see, helping you find ways to resonate with what you're doing. I'll give you another personal example. So do you know who Seth Goden is? He's kind of a marketing guru guy. And, so, you know, I was in my CEO position and I'm overwhelmed like everybody else and there's so much to do and whatever. And so people used to always ask me, well, what do you do as a CEO? And I would always hesitate because it was like a kind of, what do I do? I answer emails, I talk on the phone, I go to meetings, I go, boy, is that, how boring does that sound? Steve Anderson:            33:04                You know? And so I happened to be hearing Seth godin and going at this lecture and he said that you have to find a way to even identify within yourself, what do I do and why do I do it? And he gave out some, some ideas and it really resonated with me and I got excited about. So I went home and I worked at it. And so now people say, when I was a CEO, they'd say, well, what do you do as CEO. And I go, I'm an ambassador for my company. I'm a storyteller and I grow leaders and that sounds a lot better. Karen Litzy:                   33:42                That sounds so much better than I go to meetings and answer emails. Steve Anderson:            33:48                Exactly. And so you know, so now when I'm doing, I'm sitting there trying to get through my emails. I say, okay, what am I doing? Oh, okay, this email was because I'm being an ambassador for my company. Or this email was cause I'm helping this leader grow. This phone call was for this. And so now those things seem to have more meaning and more purpose. And it just changes my mindset. And so I think that's what a good coach can help you see sometimes. Karen Litzy:                   34:18                Yeah. What a wonderful example. And I often wonder that I would even say to my patients sometimes who are like executives and CEOs, I was like, well, what do you do all day? And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, you get into work. And then what happens? And it's amazing how many people are like, I dunno, I mean I go to meetings and I answer emails and I'm on the phone quite a bit, like telling me what they're physically doing at their job versus what is the meaning behind the job. And I think that's the distinction that you just made there very well. Steve Anderson:            34:56                Yeah. And I'll give you another example. On the other end of the spectrum, I talked at a PT school once, gave a lecture and a young man came up to me and said, God, I was really impressed with what you were saying and it was a talk on leadership and I was really impressed with it and it seems like you really know what you're doing. And he goes, could I come and just shadow you for a couple of days? And I said, you mean just my CEO job? And he goes, he goes, yeah, I'd love to just follow you and see what you're doing. Whatever. I said, Oh yeah, you're going to be bored to death. I mean, what am I going to be able to show you? I mean, you know, I'm sitting at a desk, I'm doing that. He says, why? And he wouldn't drop it. Steve Anderson:            35:37                So I thought, well, what the heck? So here, this a PT student came and shadowed me for a day and a half and he went to meetings with me and he sat there when I was on the phone and he watched me get caught up. I mean, it was just, you know, he just hung out with me. And when he left he said, Oh, this was really great. I'm kind of thinking, God, I hope I didn't bore him to death. And I got an email from him about six years later and he said, Hey, you remember me, I followed you in whatever. And he says, I just wanted you to know that that day and a half set me on my course roots and my career and now I'm doing this and now I'm doing that. And so it had a huge impact on him. It was very gratifying and it made me feel really good, but I had no idea. So through his eyes, he saw things that I, you know, thought was mundane and day to day, but he saw things that he remembered and helped him, you know, find the career position that he wants. So that was a good story. Karen Litzy:                   36:38                Yeah. That's great. Yeah. And again, like you said, it's that external eyes and ears, you know, we often don't see what others see and you never know who's looking. You never know who's listening and you never know who's watching. Steve Anderson:            36:50                Right. Karen Litzy:                   36:51                So what great examples. Steve Anderson:            36:56                Yeah. And that's another great point is when you are in a leadership role, people are looking and watching and everything you do and everything you say, matter. And, you shouldn't take it lightly. You shouldn't be afraid of it, but you should realize that you probably have a lot more influence than you realize. And so recognizing that and being aware of that and trying to make that message better, benefits everyone in life. Karen Litzy:                   37:26                Yeah, totally. And now before we kind of wrap things up here, I have a question that I ask everyone and that's knowing where you are now in your life and in your career. What advice would you give to yourself as a new grad right out of physical therapy school? So pretend you're coaching yourself back in the day. Steve Anderson:            37:52                You know, I told this story earlier because I remember it like it was yesterday and I came out of school. I wanted to be, this good, you know, manual physical therapist as I could possibly be. And so I was doing a lot of extra study and study group work and so on. And I can remember driving home from one of those sessions, I was probably about two or probably two years out of school. And I remember almost becoming overwhelmed with how can I possibly be as good as I want to be, an understand all this information and hone my skills and see the diagnosis and so on, how I was just overwhelmed with it. And, so I look back and I got through it somehow, but I would have loved to have had a coach then or a mentor that said, no, you're doing exactly what you should do. Steve Anderson:            38:52                You're working on your craft, you're putting in the time and effort and then you just have to go step by step, day by day. As I said earlier, because I would never imagined I would someday be the CEO of a large private practice physical therapy company. It just had never entered my mind at that stage in my career. So instead of being overwhelmed with, you know, this knowledge I have to get in whatever, I just need to start my journey, keep going and keep, keep moving and putting in the time and effort and where I end up in or I evolve into, I may not be able to predict, but I just know, I just know it's going to be something exciting and fun. And as long as I make the right decisions along that journey, I can reach a level I would have never imagined I could reach. And I do see that in new professionals today and they're struggling with that, you know, a few years out of school. And so my advice to them as it would have been to myself is just keep moving forward, step by step. Take some risks, find some things that resonate and excites you and don't be afraid to try them and see where it leads. Karen Litzy:                   40:15                Great advice. And now before we go, let's first talk about your podcast and then where people can find you. So talk about the podcast. Steve Anderson:            40:27                Okay. Well, I just want to say on this podcast, how inspirational and how helpful you were to me. Because as you probably remember, I thought, well, maybe I should do a podcast and I believe I called you and asked you some questions and I had not a clue how to start it and what to do. And, I really, I commend you and thank you very much for helping me answer some of those early questions and so on. So my podcast is called profiles in leadership and I just try and focus on leaders and then how they lead and just learn something from discussions with each one of them. I've been doing it about a year and a half now, a little bit longer. It's great. I mean, I've gotten some really fun, fun interviews, some inside the professional physical therapy profession and some are outside. I'm doing more outside the profession lately, which is fun. And, again, people ask me, why do you do the podcast? And, I say, because I learned something every time I do one, you know, every time I talk to somebody, I've been around a long time and with my experience, I still learn something every time. So it's like that, that gets me in the jazz and I'm inspired by that. So that's why I keep doing. Karen Litzy:                   41:58                Yeah. And I also heard you say several times that it's fun, so why wouldn't you want to do something that's fun? Steve Anderson:            42:04                Exactly. And, and you improve. I mean, I heard somebody might've been Joe Rogan who said, you know, if you think I have a good podcast, you should listen to my first few. Karen Litzy:                   42:15                Oh my God. Steve Anderson:            42:16                I think we all start at a certain level and if you're not improving, then you probably need to get out. Karen Litzy:                   42:23                Yeah, probably Steve Anderson:            42:26                I'm doing it. I think mine are much better than my first ones were. So, you know, that keeps me going too in the sense that I, you know, we all like to get better. We all like self-mastery. If we're not improving, we're probably not not having fun. Karen Litzy:                   42:42                Yeah. I mean, like I look back at like the first couple of interviews that I did and it was like a straight up boring interview for a job that was not good. It was like, I was not showing my personality. It was very much like, so Steve, tell me about your job and what you do. And it was so, Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was not good. But you know, you got to start, like you said, you got to start somewhere. And I just took courses on public speaking and improv courses in order to help me improve because I knew where my limitations were and what needed to be done. But yeah, I can totally relate to that. The first couple are no good, not good, and it's not because the guests weren't great. It was because of me. Steve Anderson:            43:33                Well, but look at the risk you took. I mean, to me that's how you reach a higher level of excellence is you're willing to take the risk. You are vulnerable. You were willing to be on camera and on audio and stick your neck out there and, you know, struggle through it a little bit and you improved. And then now you're, you know, you should be very happy with where you're at now because you do a wonderful job. So that's to me what it takes. And if we relate it back to coaching, it's the same thing. It's yeah, I need to take a risk. You need to be vulnerable. You need to realize that, you know, with work time and effort and practice, you're going to get better. And that's what it's all about. Karen Litzy:                   44:19                Absolutely. Very well said. And where can people find you, find more about you and find more about your coaching business? Steve Anderson:            44:27                Sure. So, my podcast it's on all of the podcast platforms, but, probably the easiest way to find it is through iTunes. You just search for profiles with leadership, with Steve Anderson. I did some as I did with you early on. I was doing the videos. And so, I do have the video gallery. You can search YouTube for profiles in leadership with Steve Anderson and then also all my podcasts and all the videos that I've done are on my coaching website, which is orangedotcoaching.com and that's orange, the word dot coaching.com. And you can see my services there for coaching. And then if you go to click on the media center, that's where the podcast and the videos are stored. Karen Litzy:                   45:18                Perfect. And just so everyone knows, we will have all of that information on the show notes at podcasts.Healthywealthysmart.com. So one click, we'll get to all of Steve's information. So Steve, thanks so much for taking the time out today and coming on the podcast. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. So thanks so much. Steve Anderson:            45:37                Well, thank you Karen. And again, I just thank you for your early mentorship to me when I was trying to figure this all out and I haven’t forgotten that and I'm very appreciative that you're willing to help me. Karen Litzy:                   45:50                Anytime, anytime. You are quite welcome and everyone else, thanks so much for tuning in. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy, and smart.   Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on iTunes!

It’s hard to know when to pivot your business. On this episode of our Cali BBQ Media podcast "Digital Hospitality", we talk with Steve Miller, a listener of this show, about transforming his family’s successful baking operation at the Rock Creek Lakes Resort into a BBQ business. After hearing our regular call to action where we ask you to email us your stories, Steve Miller did just that. It’s one thing to be curious, it’s another to get involved. All the magic happens when you actually reach out and share information. That’s the essence of Digital Hospitality and how we built our business. We encourage all of you to get involved by emailing podcast@calibbq.media and sharing your own story. Taking over a family business can be terrifying and exciting at the same time. Steve Miller and his wife Amy took over the Rock Creek Lakes Resort from her parents in 2015. Since 1979 until then, the King family had owned and operated the beautiful resort surrounded by the Sierra Nevada mountains and trout-filled lakes. The resort’s “butter and butter” are the cabin rentals. That’s no wonder. The property looks absolutely beautiful. It’s about a 30-minute drive from Mammoth Mountain in the majestic Eastern Sierras. When people visit Rock Creek Lakes Resort, they come for serenity. “You got the lake right across the street from us,” Steve Miller said. “World class hiking right up the road.” It’s an outdoor lovers paradise with plenty of cabins and other accommodations for visitors. One of those accommodations that kept people coming back was Sue King’s handmade pies. For almost 40 years, people visited from all around after learning about her handcrafted Pie in the Sky slices. A few features in Sunset Magazine, and then later online, led to a continued massive demand. But when Steve and his wife took it over from the Kings, they knew they couldn’t keep up the intensity of the pie operation. It wasn't their path. When Rock Creek Lakes Resort stopped making pies, they also found a new direction. Steve had another craft in mind to serve, something he was more accustomed to creating — barbecue. Steve Miller is a proud supporter and participant in our growing #WestCoastBBQMovement. Years ago, the lodge had cooked some ribs on the restaurant grill and Steve needed a barbecue sauce that was better than the mass produced one he had on hand in their general store. So Steve got on the phone with his dad to get his longtime BBQ sauce recipe. Steve had been tasting that sauce since he was a kid and knew it well. The sauced-up ribs were a hit. Demand was there. Steve Miller thought, as a joke, he should bottle the sauce and try and sell it. Bottling and selling BBQ sauce is notoriously difficult to pull off. He did end up bottling a few sauces anyway, and feedback was positive. So the next summer he did it again with a few more. “I made it so it was always out in the store. And if people bought some, I’d make some more.” That was the start of what became Miller & Sons BBQ Brewing Co. The small-batch sauce and spice rub company now has products in more than 30 shops. That’s how a business evolves. Bit by bit. It doesn’t happen overnight. It takes buy-in from the team, family, customers, and it takes drive to keep going through hard times. The Millers took over a resort known for its pies and decided, maybe that wasn’t the answer anymore. “It’d be like us taking over Julian (Pie Company) and starting a BBQ shop,” Steve Miller said. “That’s how it feels.” “We took a lot of flack for it (still do) but we have made it out the other side (I think) and our restaurant numbers are back up to what they were during the time of the pie,” Steve Miller wrote to Cali BBQ Media in his initial email to us. https://youtu.be/JmlbfUO2lCM Learn more about Miller and Sons BBQ Sauce Brewing Company online at https://www.millsauceco.com. Rock Creek Lakes Resorts can be found at https://www.

"We choose to make this podcast, not because it is easy, but because it is gas craic" Space is back in vogue! With the 50th anniversary of the moon landing during the summer, everyone has been turning their gazes back towards the sky. So Steve and Richie have to decided to get their heads out of the gutters of terrestrial politics and will ask the big questions around space exploration. Will we get to Mars? Will there be a city on the Moon? Will an army of Mark Zuckerberg clones colonise Saturn? To help them answer all this, they have reached out to Brendan Byrne (https://twitter.com/spacebrendan?lang=en) , a Space Reporter and host of the podcast Are We There Yet? (http://www.wmfe.org/arewethereyet) Come see us live at the Dublin Podcast Festival! Tickets available here. (http://bit.ly/wapshow2019) ----- State of 2020 (https://audioboom.com/posts/7373684-1-contenders-for-the-democratic-nomination) whatampolitics.games (http://whatampolitics.games/) whatampolitics.com (http://whatampolitics.com/) Follow us on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/whatampolitics/) & Twitter (https://twitter.com/whatampolitics) Theme music by Supermarket Love (https://soundcloud.com/supermarketlove) ----- Want to hear our drunken bonus episode? Buy us a beer (http://ko-fi.com/wappod) and leave us your email address, or tweet about the show and tag us with @whatampolitics (https://twitter.com/whatampolitics)

EP020 - CEO of MuvMe, Inc., Steven Messino, and Senior Carsharing Consultant, Dave Brook http://www.vehicle2.getspiffy.com Episode 20 is an interview with Steven Messino, CEO of MuvMe, Inc., and Dave Brook, Senior Carsharing Consultant for Carsharing.US; recorded on Thursday, September 12th, 2019. Scot, Steven, and Dave discuss a variety of topics, including... Steven and Dave’s individual career paths in the automotive industry, and how they first met each other The seven primary ownership models, such as leasing, financing, ridesharing, carsharing, and subscriptions A present-day look at the carsharing space and the potential for a tipping point for more car-sharing miles driven than owned vehicles The key differences between gated and ungated carsharing Steven and Dave’s thoughts on the potential for autonomy, both in the carsharing space and the industry as a whole Be sure to follow Steven Messino and Dave Brook on LinkedIn. If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review on iTunes! The four pillars of Vehicle 2.0 are electrification, connectivity, autonomy, and changing ownership models. In the Vehicle 2.0 Podcast, we will look at the future of the auto industry through guest expert interviews, deep dives into specific topics, news coverage, and hot takes with instant analysis on what the latest breaking news means for today and in time to come. This episode was produced and sound engineered by Jackson Balling, and hosted by Scot Wingo.   Transcript: Scot:    Welcome to the Vehicle 2.0 Podcast! This is episode 20 and it's being recorded, September 12th, 2019. In this episode, we are excited to have two guests from the car sharing industry. First we have Steve Messino CEO of move me and he's joined by Dave Brook senior car sharing consultant. Welcome to the show guys. Dave:    Thank you! Steven:    Thank you for inviting us. Scot:    Oh, Steve let's start off with you. Let's we, we like to take listeners through a everyone's career path. So, so how did you get into the exciting world of automotive and car sharing? Steven:    Okay. Basically I was consulting in Silicon Valley for various companies, so I came across a car share that started around the same time around 2011, 2012 as get around and what you now know is zero. And they were in a very similar business. They were all doing peer to peer car sharing. Ended up working with them for awhile. Them I went and did a project with probably at the time was the biggest car sharing software provider in the world, which was not a vera out of Toronto. And during that episode, Oh, we need to be create demand. So he thought of doing webinars because lots of people had an interest in car sharing but did not know a lot about the business or the market. So I went and did research and found out who were the leading experts in the industry of which Dave Brook was one of them. Steven:    And the person who originally started the industry in the United States. So we, Dave and I ran a series of webinars. Oh, format, Avera. And then after, and we ended up finding a large number of people who wanted to get into the business. But it's very similar to a large number of people who want to start a laundry or a restaurant. Most of them didn't know a lot about it. And this got tied with Metta. Vera sold to enterprise, so there was no longer a major provider in North America. My phone rang constantly and I started talking to Dave and I said, we have all these people who want to do this. Why don't we offer them a package of, we'll teach them how to run once you've successfully run one days and we'll put together the technology and get them operational. And from that point on, David has been doing this or probably every major car share car company insurance company in the world, but I'm sure you'll be a little more humble. Dave, you want to give your additional background? Dave:    Sure. Thanks. I guess I'm a serial entrepreneur and in the mid nineties, I started reading about this a wacky idea called car sharing that was starting in Europe at the time. And it seemed like a, a, an interesting idea that would have some application here in the United States. So I talked to people in Switzerland that had been involved in their very earliest car shares 10 years before in the late eighties. And it was sort of realize that, well, this wasn't rocket science. It was pretty, you know, straight forward to moving parts. So I stepped off the cliff a couple of years ahead of anyone else and started car share in Portland, Oregon. I was financing it out on my own pocket to, it was kind of before the VC and angel investor world sort of got to interested in mobility and transportation things. Dave:    And after starting my company I was approached by another group of people from Seattle who wanted to do the same thing, only they wanted to do it on a much better finance scale than what I was doing. So I help them get going and after not to, after a couple of years it made sense for me to merge my company with what was flex car which had not only national aspirations, but did expand the in a 10 or 12 different cities all over the country. And they were going head to head with another company out of Boston that started two years after mine called Zipcar. And eventually the two merged and you know, under the Zipcar banner. And so that was the birth of you know, commercial car sharing in the United States. It, after a couple of years working for Flexcar, I decided that the corporate life was not, not for me. Dave:    So kind of weighted out my noncompete agreement and then started consulting and I had been approached by a fellow Shelby Clark who had this idea of using private cars, privately owned cars, your, your car, my car, and being a platform to rent out those cars to other people. The same car sharing concept. And so the big challenge for any car share starting is finding insurance. Cause most people don't understand. Most insurance companies don't understand the special requirements of, of car sharing. But so get around Shelby's company was a relay rides, which is now called we're o, t,U , R, o. And m. Again, almost at the same time another company was starting, which is get around know, which is the other peer to peer company. And they've grown. And so for the last 10 plus years I've been working with they're startups. I've been working with auto manufacturers, insurance companies, helping them understand the, the, the car sharing space where it fits into overall mobility and okay. And having a good time at it. And then it's, that's how I met Steve as he, as he said. Scot:    Very cool. So we definitely wanna dig more into that d what I find interesting is you guys were so early with the zipcars flex car you know, and then the f the iPhone came along, which really seems to have enabled these models to, to be a lot easier or at least more consumer friendly, right? Because with Zipcar, you'd have to Kinda go to your desktop, see what cars are there, run over there and hope that no one rented them out. Whereas with the phone now you have it all in your pocket and you can get more real time from a consumer's perspective, you know, know where the cars are. Steven:    Yeah. Right. That technology shift actually happened about June, 2012 if you watch that, nobody really bought applications on iPhones and android and all of a sudden in that period it just jumped. And then everybody wanted an app on their mobile phone. Dave:    Yeah, yeah. It it really did change things quite a bit. It, you know, the better, the more convenient you can make access to a shared car, the easier it will be for an individual to decide, well, this is so easy. I don't really need to own the car, spend all that money owning a car just to have it waiting for me out front. So it's a challenge for the operator to make it as convenient as possible. And you know, there's kind of multiple levels of convenience. One is finding the car and being able to reserve it. The next challenges, being able to kind of unlocked the car, you know, without having to go through a big a lot of steps and then taking the trip, returning the car and locking it up. And you know, that, so conveniences is what it's all about. And of course, keeping the car clean is the challenge for the for the car sharing operator. Scot:    Yeah, we're, we're learning a lot about that here, here on our side. So that's super helpful. Thanks for given the backgrounds. I feel like you guys are elder statesman of, of the industry. So it's going to be a fun discussion. And here on our podcast we call it the vehicle 2.0 podcast cause we've come up with this framework where we talk about the four of innovation that are just kinda crashing through the automotive industry. We talk about connected car electrification, autonomy, and then changing ownership models. Since you guys are really steeped in that, that, you know, car sharing side, we want to spend the bulk of our time there today. So, so let's start, you know, kind of the history is really good to know. And here we are, 2019. Steve, we'll start with you. Scot:    How do you feel, how do you think about the car sharing space? I'll look into it a little bit. There's you know, dug into this, there's some data points out there that say by 20, 30, maybe 10% of cars will be kind of, you know shared or not individually owned ownership. If that's a word and then a, I've seen another one that's the exact opposite where they'll say, you know, some kind of amazing thing, like 80% of cars will, will be you know, outside of the ownership as we know it today. Do you have a point of view on where we're going to be in kind of the next 10 years or so? Steven:    Well, this is actually a great question because I spend a lot of time, usually in the summertime thinking about where the market's going since I build technologies for it. And you always have to anticipate three to five years in advance of what's going to be coming. Dave and I, when we speak, we frequently get asked this question, the big mover and shaker here, we'll be the autonomous car as it comes along. But it's going to take awhile. Everyone likes to say it's going to be here next year, but it's only in trial. Car sharing is going to be here for quite awhile easily and now 20 years and it just gets convenient if you spend much time talking to millennials, they are not really fans of cars as the previous generation, so they're, they're more inclined to do car sharing, which has already proven out in all the demographics and still approves out today. Steven:    The, yeah, as they, as they get older they are gonna start buying cars because they're going to end up having families and that's going to be in cars so, but if they could get away with not having a second car, I think they'll do it in a nanosecond and it's easy to just spiral a second car to take kids to soccer practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays. If that's the only time you need the car or you needed a third time on Saturday to go shut up. I see this business being solid for 20 years. The primary technology change is as of 2018, 25% of all cars now have their telematics devices, which is what the smartphone shock to built into the cars. So probably in four or five years I'll, those of us who build technologies, well we'll be using the car is built in devices in order to talk to them. Dave:    I I would, I'm not sure how much or they are going to be the car's built-in devices because I think the manufacturers are going to keep that information to themselves in case their, to start their own business. So I think that the, this is the market for you should third party after market type telematics devices is going to continue for quite a while. Okay. As Steve and I differ slightly about the, how quickly autonomous vehicles are going to be a major factor, I think that they will start happening quite soon. I mean without, without 'em a driver without a, whatever you call it, the person sitting in the driver's seat. But I think there are going to be specialized applications. You know, Tesla's clearly shown there's a lot of that a possibility, but there may be autonomous taxis going in, you know, 10 years on a, on a fairly large scale and you know, some, something really basic to to sort of keep in mind. Dave:    There's no difference between autonomous Uber and autonomous Zipcar. There is just who, you know, what's the origin of the company? Scot:    Yeah, yeah. I think Travis a the founder of Uber, Travis Kalanick is famous for saying that they have a good business today, but they'll have a great business once they can get rid of the drivers. But you know, I mean, just because, you know, at that point he had like 2 million drivers. He's kind of a PR oopsies there that he was famous for. So cool. So that's good. Let's, let's kind of dive in a little bit. In peel that onion, there's, I kind kinda track, I call it seven different ways that people own cars. You've got your traditional ownership. You can obviously finance, most people do. You can lease a, and then we start to get into the newer models. You can rent a car. Scot:    So we've got the traditional rental car models out there. And then you've got ride sharing, which is kind of what Uber and Lyft represent today. And then car sharing when you've got peer-to-peer and then you've got, I call it B to c, but you guys probably have another name and then their subscriptions. First of all, I know you guys probably have what I've found in this industry. Everyone's got a little bit of a different vocabulary. So does that jive with what you car stop you guys call stuff or would you dispute and say no, there's different words. Dave:    This is Dave. I would I agree. I mean traditional ownership leasing or financing, you know, strategies for traditional ownership. Then you got rentals. There's daily, I mean we think of daily rentals, but a car sharing is, shall we say, hourly rentals and subscriptions is basically monthly or, or six months. You could call it a rental or lease and it really depends on how it's structured. But all of those are, are where you're doing the driving. When you get into taxis and when you get into what you're calling ride sharing you've got somebody else doing the driving and arguably autonomous vehicles are the machine is doing the driving. So the just basic, when when car sharing started in Europe, they started calling it self-drive taxi which is not quite accurate but a sort of make it captures that distinction. And you Scot alluded to the, to the distinctions of different ownership models of car sharing. The ease of the business owns the car sharing business owns the vehicles or leases, the vehicles. That's most common or it's the what in the industry we call peer-to-peer where it's private, it's a privately owned car that is being, you know, rent it out covered by the insurance of the platform that handles the rental. Scot:    Steve, any other input on the, on the models that we're talking about? Steven:    Yeah, I think w the up and comer that everyone's been talking to mine for the last year has been the subscriptions and that was, that was actually heavily driven by Uber and Lyft drivers and eating vehicles. All right. Actually it's existed for over about 15 years. It just became popular. We have a customer in Long Beach who's been doing it and provides cars under a subscription model. So if you want to drive a Ferrari, you can have a Ferrari for a week. If you want to afford C-max, you can have that for, and he just basically allows everybody who participates to have access to any kind of vehicle they want as long as they pay the fees. Scot:    Yeah. Interesting to talk about the newer models. It seems like we kind of had Uber and Lyft had their, their day and now they've gone public and those are really big billion dollar businesses. And then it feels like the peer to peer car sharing is where there's a lot of action at least. You know, I think Touro between Turo and get around, they've each traced about 500 million. So there's, you know, the big guys are playing, they're like the, the soft banks and the interactive corpse. The subscription one seems to be less popular with consumers. Especially, you know, the OEMs have these subscription programs and they look good. Like the BMW one's interesting. I think it's called access. And you look at it and you're like, this is pretty cool. I could just kind of, you know, switch out the car based on my needs. And then you look at the price and I think it goes 900, 1,520 500 a month and you're like, whoa. You know, that's, they, they feel like they're 2x the cost of a lease of that, that type of a car, which, which seems to be the initial reaction or when I talked to you is like, holy cow, they're way too expensive right now. Is that, is that what you guys see? Dave:    Yeah, it's a, I mean, you think of it from it. This is all kind of being done through dealerships. You know, the, the, the, the OEM might be trying to, to sort of test the market with these, with these subscription programs. Volvo has one as well. Oh, her has tried it, has tried it. But sort of what are you going to do with all these cars? If, if, you know, if you have your, your BMW, you know, seven series and you get tired of it. Now this dealer has this used BMW seven that so you can put on the lot or he can try to lease to somebody else. I think that's where, that's where they, the difficulty of that is coming from. Okay. Keeping the price so high. Scot:    Yeah, absolutely. Steve, do you agree subscriptions are facing some challenges at the, at least at the OEM level? Steven:    Yes. I, this was when subscription started with the OEMs. This to them was a great way of try out our BMWs, try our Mercedes, try out our general motors cars and see which one you like, drive it for a week and get them out there. But I agree with Dave the price that, because would you try to do when you're making cars available is maximize your usage in subscription. If they're sitting on the lot, they're not making money and then you have to charge a premium, you cover your costs. So I believe that's probably the challenge until they can get activity up. But I don't see activity going up just to Uber and Lyft drivers and people who are testing them. That's not going to drive it either. So subscription is going to be that. I don't think it's going to be a big player. I think it's definitely going to be there and there'll, there'll be competitors out there trying to win part of the business. Scot:    Cool. Let's talk about the peer-to-peer side and it sounds like you guys were there, the birth of it, and I'm coming in kind of here in 2018. It feels like a two horse race, Touro and get around get around, started really a little slower start, but a better user experience because they require, like they, they use this airbnb style English where you have the host and the guests kind of a thing so that they require their hosts, which is the car owner to have that device that allows you to remote your kind of remote control the vehicle or at least road access. And then and then so get around was really focused in the U S in a couple cities and then Touro didn't have that device and it allowed them to get a lot of cars on faster and more cities. But in the, now they've gone and they have a similar device where they can optionally have that you know, phone controlled access. Everyday to I point I see shows Troy at 80% market share get around at percent is. Does all that jive with how you guys think about the peer-to-peer space? Dave:    Yeah, I think, I think that's right. A get around has, you know, has focused attention on, you know, kind of don shall we say, dominating our getting good market share in a limited number of cities. As you say, Touro made a decision early on not to do technical a in car technology, that telematics device, but did what, what you know, we call key exchange. And I think that they are serving somewhat different markets. The, because of the lack of technology, a Toros rental periods tend to be longer. More like car rental, you know, daily day and a half, couple of days at a time. Okay. And get around because it has the technology, it is able to two, not only have the longer term rentals but can support the more urban car sharing type of, of access to the car for a couple of hours at a time. Dave:    So there they're going slightly differently. Both both, I want to say both of them have now expanded into Europe or European companies. It may only be one of them. And a, like you said, a Touro now does have a, a in car technology, which would allow this more spontaneous use of the vehicle without having to meet the the owner. But it's not a requirement and a, the people who are going to be most interested in it are people who I really anticipating, you know, renting their vehicles a lot rather than somebody who, you know, just wants to make a couple hundred extra dollars a month. So, you know I think it's a kind of a different strategy there. There clearly are people like airbnb. There are people who have simply gone out and bought used cars and put them on the, the P2P platforms. And you know, if they're in the right location and they price it right, they can make pretty decent money. Dave:    Yeah. We see that a lot. They call it a, they call it their side hustle out there and it's really big in la where people, they'll experiment on one of the networks with their daily driver and then they'll, they'll like the extra income, but they don't like having other people in their cars than they'll, they'll either, they're, they'll buy a new car and then they're daily at their first car, becomes the, the rental car and then they become power hosts pretty quick. Where, you know, we found these guys that have 10, 20, 30 up to hundreds of these cars that are just kind of have built this little side business doing this is pretty fascinating. Yeah. Steven:    Three or four years ago when these guys were growing we found a bunch of people in San Francisco who g who would get pests lists because there were so hard to get and they would post Teslas and they would charge one to $2,000 a day just to get access. Yeah. Scot:    At that level, it almost becomes like a a payday pay, the test drive kind of a model or something. Steven:    Yeah, exactly. What is the market? People would take it for the weekend, drive it and then decide if they wanted one. Scot:    Yeah, I see. Dave:    I think that people, one of the things that was surprising when, when relay rides with now Touro started was we expected that it would be cars would be a couple of years old before people would sit or be comfortable letting strangers drive them, you know, drive them when they, when like you said, when they first got them, they really wanted to [inaudible] kind of keep it special. But almost immediately cars less than a year old were showing up on the, on the system. So it part of it is just a, shall we say the younger generation has a different relationship to their cars then? Well maybe it's not only younger generation. Some people have a different relation to ship to their cars than others. You know, the people look at more functionally or they look at it as more of a personal, a personal statement, personal expression. Scot:    Cool. so now that we've laid some good groundwork for car sharing in the, in the and both your experience and everything let's dig in to move me. So Steve, tell us about you started talking a little bit about how you guys came up with the idea but give us kind of the overview of the company and, and what you guys do. Steven:    Well, good. So we're not, when we started it and I recruited Dave to give me some help, it was because people wanted to get into car shares and they needed to learn how to actually run a car, share what's involved in it. How do you start it with your business plan? How do you think through being profitable? David Woods does an expert at it. So, so when somebody's would come to us a look, we need the technology for some reason, first time people are interested, first thing they want is a technology and I'd say no, what you really needed to do was talk to David first and help you think through this business. Oh for the territory. It's in the your constituency that you want to serve. What their demands are going to be, what the population density is. These are all things David is an expert at. Steven:    Once they get past that part, then we get them to what kind of cars, where they need to be. And one of the decisions they get too is what kind of car shirt and they actually want to operate. Most ones, if there's small start out stations station or round trip, they, they operate very similar to the rental car. In other words, you get it here driving anywhere you want, return it. Once they start to get larger and more mature, then they moved to free floating because the capital costs of free floating are much higher. Instead of buying 10 the 50 cars, you're now buying 50 to 200 cars. And that requires investors to go make happen. And it's a, it's a more sophisticated approach and as time goes on, most of these companies, they tend, when one, these companies tend to do both. They tend to do both free floating and they do round shrimp or station to station. Steven:    So the effect on us was how do you build software that has to do all this and anticipate technologies. So let's even go look where things are going. From that point once you're starting to do a car share, some cars shares actually want to rent seats in the car, especially senior citizens. Hey, I'm thinking for other people, I want to charge them all. So, so now you have a car share turning into a ride share. So you have to adapt your software to go the ride sharing. Once you do that, then you have, okay for example, you can take a car that's not heavily rested, rented it and car share in the evenings, give it to Uber and Lyft drivers. Well, there's not just Uber and Lyft drivers. You can give it to doordash drivers. People are now delivering cargo, they can rent the car. And so you have to account for that in your, in your design so you're not just renting a car, your Hesta account for riders, cargo types of cargo and you can see it. And then of course the world went to suitors, bicycles and the technologies. Basically the same technologies that started in car share really take care of all of this. And so those of us in this industry, all we're trying to do is anticipate what the next move, what the next move is to make sure it's already prebuilt and ready for the operators when they're ready to go. Scot:    Got It. So your software, it seems like it's super flexible and it can provide all these different options and probably even an intermingling of the options. Is that a good characterization? Steven:    That is a great characterization and we had to do a complete redesign once we realize this industry is moving so fast and people are so creative that you have to adopt, adapt for them as quickly as you can. Scot:    Got It. Give us an idea of how many customers, Dave:    Yeah, Scot, it's a, it's kind of worth noting that there's a big overlap here between, you know, what we think of as classic car sharing, commercial neighborhood car sharing in a, in a city and fleet fleets use or can use similar software. Traditionally, you know, a fleet, a corporate fleet or a government fleet, you know, has a whole bunch of keys hanging on a wall or in a, in a lockbox and you, you check out the [inaudible] and pick up the key and take it back. But increasingly fleets are installing the same telematics that you know, Steve and I have been talking about here. And so they're able to shrink the size of their fleet a buy and getting much higher utilization because somebody could check out a car for a half a day. Somebody else could check it out that afternoon, whereas before you basically could only do a daily rental out of, out of that car. Dave:    So it saves money to the company or the agency. It allows them to manage it much more efficiently. It's the same technology and in particular with fleets you might want to you know, that company might want to offer the option of, you know, of somebody going across town to a meeting. They could take other people from the company with them. And so they need to not only rent the Co, you know, sort of access to car, but then assigned seats to two people. So it's in Europe they call it a corporate car sharing, but it's really just a fleet, a fleet system. Steven:    I think if you allow me to elaborate, what I think Dave is hit on is what was car sharing? One. Dot. Oh, and car sharing, one, two. Dot. O is kindly as is transmuting extremely fast. Scot:    Interesting. Steven:    And because of it, when little challenges start to come up. And one of the things we look at, believe it or not, as the technology is going to be autonomous cars, because these are ones we need to bring backwards into car sharing. So we, so we can know what's going on with people, cars, locations, making sure that cars get things that are futuristic. We're already addressing like making sure cars talk to each other so they know the state of what's going on or the vacant talk to the passengers so they know the state of the passengers. This is, you're going to see this world move as fast as a smartphone business. Scot:    Hm. Cool. give us an idea for a, the size of move me. Do you guys think about, about the number of cars in your network or the number of, of car sharing companies? How, how, how big of an impact are you guys having right now? Steven:    Okay. There's two ways to look at it, number of operators and number of cars. The fact of the matter is if you have an operator with a thousand cars, you actually put in almost the same amount of effort as somebody with 10 cars because everybody likes it their way. Scot:    Yeah. Steven:    No matter what you think to use your experiences, they think it should be different. Yeah. So, so you, it doesn't matter who you choose, they all want a better in what they perceive to be a better user experience. And so you have to meet Dave:    And in a way to differentiate themselves from the other guy. You know, it may not be better, it's just gotta be different. Steven:    And so that's what ends up which we end up doing is making it, you look unique for them. Yeah. So they look special in the market. Scot:    Cool. So how many cars does that equate to? Or operators, I guess. Correct. Steven:    Well, W with the average number on opera. Oh my God, it's all over the place. Dave, why don't you answer that better than me? Dave:    Sure. Well, I mean, the typical car sharing company is in a, in a, in an individual city is going to have a, probably a couple of hundred cars so they won't get there all at once. In the peer to peer, I'm sorry, in the this a one way free floating car sharing that we've, we've mentioned a couple times. The cars don't have a fixed location, but they can park in any legal, they can be parked in any legal parking place within a big zone, you know, kind of the inner part of the city and the people find where the car is located by, like you were saying at the beginning of the broadcast, you know, with, with a smart phone and they don't have a fixed reservation period. You don't schedule it. You just find the nearest car and keep it for as long as you want. Dave:    And if you're just driving across town, you might pay for that by the minute. And if you want to keep it longer than it ratchets up to by the hour and even longer by the day. Daimler and BMW have both have services that are now in the code process of merging right now, and it's going to be under the share now franchise. But these, you can't do this free floating with fewer than a couple of hundred cars because you, you've got to have them reasonably close to where people live or they're not going to use them. But, but there are car share co-ops all over the world and, and a bunch of them in Canada, you know, that they might have 40 or 50 cars. 50 is about the smallest you can do profitably. Otherwise you're, you're running it as a kind of a, a social, a social service, you know, probably a nonprofit. Scot:    Okay. And do you feel like, so you know, having experiment with these, it feels like the free floating as a much user experience than kinda like what'd you guys call Zipcars station to station? Or is that, I've heard some people use gated. Station to station? Dave:    Yeah, station to station. It's, we call it round trip because it's not, you can't take them between stations. You have to bring it back to the same station. With the, with the free floating there are no stations. You, you can just return them anywhere. It's, yeah, it's a, it's a different user experience in the sense free-floating is a different user experience in the sense of that you don't have to plan ahead. You don't have to make a reservation and you don't have to specify when you think you're going to bring the car back. Which is what you have to do in the, in the zip car model. But by the same token, because it's so flexible, the company has to charge a lot more of the per hour price of the, a free floating almost double what, what a, a station to station would be. Dave:    And in some cases it's even more than double. I just so the user, so I think functionally what happens is you, you satisfy a different type of trip. W the, the free floating membership typically is a lot bigger than the same a membership, the membership in the same town of the, of the round trip type car share. And I think the reason is is that you're able to do a type of trip with free floating that you can't do with round trip. And that's this one way trip where you can take it across town or you can take it out of town and bring it back, but you don't have to return it to the same place you started from. And so even car owners are interested in this free floating because it lets them take a kind of a trip that they can't do with their own car. So it's a different user experience and consequently it's a satisfying, a different mobility need than, you know, the classic, a round trip Steven:    To make it simple, free floating is really a great convenience factor. So you pay a premium probably as much as 49 cents a minute, but what you use car sharing, you're down to maybe 7 cents per minute. And if you're starting to rent those by the day, it gets down there one or 2 cents in there. Scot:    Yeah. Steven:    So it's really just a matter of convenience and, and that's the premium you pay for. Scot:    Yeah. Cause it's the operator free floating is probably a nightmare, right? Cause you had cars kind of watering all over the place. You got to go find them. You mentioned scooters earlier and I see these people trying to find these scooters that worked our way in all kinds of crazy places. And, and not only Dave:    That to, to sort of maximize the returns on the scooter, the companies have to spend a certain amount of time relocating the scooters because in the morning people, many people want to take the scooters and go to work. And then there might not be that much demand for the scooter during the day until the evening. And so they will relocate a certain number of scooters constantly. You see it in the bike share and you see it in the free floating car sharing as well. Usually in the free floating car sharing, it's a, they're relocating a car that is perhaps quite near the perimeter of the service area and there isn't much demand out there. And so they're going to move that car back into more of the heart of the service area. Scot:    Cool. I do want to spend a couple minutes on some of the other areas here that we talk about on the podcast that I think does a really good deep dive in the car sharing side. How about Steve, you mentioned autonomy a little bit that you think it's coming. It feels like for a long time it was like right around the corner and then this year it seems like it got pushed out a little bit. There was an incident with the one of the Uber vehicles hitting somebody and you know, even even the Waymo guys, the Waymo CEO said something like, I don't think we'll ever be at full a hundred percent autonomy. So there seems to be kind of, we're in that, you know, that that coming, the expectations are coming down a bit. Where, where do you put that? We'll have some pretty good ab penetration. Steven:    Well, in fact, Dave and I were talking about this before this, cause we, we get asked this all the time as the last numbers I thought that were reasonable is that you would see them as a norm in major cities about 2030 Scot:    Yeah. Steven:    That, that would be the norm. I mean, are you going to use it to tow your boat in the suburbs now? But so for major cities, endless slowly grow outwards. Probably from that I was mentioning the days, when would we get to say 70% penetration? And it was purely my guests that maybe around 2075 you know, but that's a long way out. And part of it isn't, is because when you buy a car, it's got an 11 year life. Yeah. So you buy an asset like that, you're not going to dump it right away unless something's really unbelievably convenient and it's less expensive. So autonomy has to be there in your neighborhood all the time. And then whatever neighborhood you're going to, and that's gonna take a while. Scot:    Yeah. Steven:    Dave, your opinion? Dave:    I think that 70% number is is a, an important one to keep in mind because you know, there's lots of discussion about the the safety benefits that autonomous cars you know, are going to bring because they won't be acting irrationally like drivers do. And those benefits don't, don't you know, start showing up in insurance rates and, and a lower hospital admissions and things like that until you get to 70, 80% penetration, the 70 to 80% of the vehicles on the road are smart, are smarter than humans. And you know, if you look at the accident statistics of autonomous cars to date a very high percentage of them are, were caused by a, you know, kind of erratic behavior by somebody else on the road that the autonomous vehicle couldn't anticipate. Scot:    Darn humans. Steven:    If you run a show, what I found fascinating is when they were designing these in silicon valley about six years ago, I would attend all the sessions and listened to the PhDs talk about how do you deal with these human problems? Scot:    Yeah. Steven:    Such as if four cars are all hit a stop sign at the same time, who moves first? Well, the way humans do it is people start to nudge until somebody asserts themselves. Dave:    It's the guy in the test. It's the guy in the Tesla who goes first. Steven:    So much what I've been doing is you have, you have to teach the car to do the same thing, move a little bit, look around, see what everyone else does, move a little bit. And then if it's free, you move. So well, a lot of it is teaching them the cars to deal with humans. Scot:    Yeah. Where do you, I'm often when I kind of play this forward, the one group, I kind of think, I don't know what happens to them is the dealerships, you know, so, so it feels like a lot of the OEMs are viewing some of these models as an interesting way to almost go direct to the consumer. And then, you know, in than if by default people aren't gonna be buying as many cars, the dealership may become a service center. But then I always, you know, you know, the, you ask people, you know, when's the last great service experience? You had a dealership and you, you don't get a lot of grave responses except maybe Lexus or something like that. Do you see those guys being the kind of the, you know, where, where do they fit into this kind of, you know, world of 2030 where, you know, the, we've, we've got pretty good penetration of these new models. Steven:    Well, part of this, you look at the statistics right now, there's about one point $2 billion billion cars in the world. And if you, and you can look at any of the major research sites that is expected within a few years to drop down the 1 billion. And the largest effect on this is the sharing community car sharing, ride sharing. It's just, it, it's expected by about 2030 that it'll be 16 to 20% of the car market will be in the sharing industry. Scot:    Yup. What happens to that, do you think dealers are, that's a, that's a lot of hit for the dealers because presumably that's a 20% reduction, but it's going to be even heavier on new car sales. Right? Steven:    Yes. And, and also you're getting efficiency. If you start thinking on the autonomous car, could run 22 hours a day continuously as opposed to most Dave probably knows the most recent numbers. What's the average amount of hours of car shirt is used per day, Dave? Dave:    Well, typically a eight to 10 hours per day average. Steven:    So as you get more efficiency, you drive down meeting that number of assets in the world. Yeah. Dave:    See the, you know, I mean I think the car dealers can see the handwriting on the wall. Yeah. They have these longterm contracts with the manufacturers and they're struggling too to sort of figure, retain their role in the distribution a process. Scot:    Yeah. Interesting. Dave:    I wouldn't want to be a car dealer. Scot:    Okay. Yeah. I kind of come to the same conclusion. Steven:    Well, and as consumers go less to them you can, you can understand the challenge. Yup. Yup. You don't need as many in town. I mean, I'm Ford announced a reduction in the number of vehicles they're going to be producing. What is, what does the market really need? And I think we're going, not only are we going to see less dealerships, I think Ford made the right move. You're going to see less, less car types. Yeah. Cause you're not gonna need all these people competing. If you need a sedan, it's a sedan. As long as it runs relatively well, you're happy. Scot:    Cool. Well guys, we're this has been awesome. I could go a whole nother hour, but I know, I want to be conscious of your time. So one last question. If folks want to find follow, tweet, retweet, like whatever you guys online, where can they find your, your, how you're writing and thinking about the industry? Steven:    Dave, want to go first? Dave:    Sure. I have a industry blog that I've been writing since 2005 called car sharing. Dot. U S is the, is the web address, car sharing. Dot. U S Steven:    In my case, where at? MuvMe Inc Dot com Muv m e I n c.com and we're going to be doing a lot of promotion about the new technologies in the next few months that we're coming out with, and so we'll look forward to getting feedback from your audience. Dave:    Yeah, Definitely. Scot:    Awesome. Yeah, maybe we can have you back on and talk about that in a, but that's going to do it for today. We really appreciate you guys taking time out of your busy schedules, changing car ownership to come on the vehicle 2.0 podcast. Steven:    Thank you. Dave:    Thank you, Scot.

So Steve asked me, “Does the pendant need to be jade?” I said that I wasn't sure. I would have preferred it to not matter, because after I had passed on the Black Dragon Pendant, I started wearing a green bagua pendant. This green bagua pendant was also bought in Hong Kong but this time from a street kiosk at the famous Ladies' Market along Tung Choi Street. With the bagua on it crudely hacked into it with the green stone being of supposedly jade. At the time of buying, it was more of a tourist impulse buy that I told myself that one day it will come in handy to justify the expense even though it was cheap as. That one day did eventually come by way of my qigong community service at the North Ryde Community Centre. I wore it to every qigong class as part of my kung fu uniform, up until last Friday. With Friday being the day after my visit to the Jade Healing Centre in Penrith. One of the reasons I also visited Steve, was because for a couple weeks up to the visit, when I wore the green bagua pendant, I got the feeling or sensation that maybe it was time to pass it along to the next person. On the one hand, that sensation was a good one to have because it meant that I have been imparting my growing qi into it and that whoever was the recipient, they would be getting some very focused qi around qigong. But on the other hand, I kind of didn't want to part with it. There was the practical issue that on Thursday when I was visiting Steve, I didn't have a replacement pendant and nobody seemed worthy enough to get it. But that was Thursday. On Friday, at the start of my qigong class, I found myself after telling my class about my visit to the Jade Healing Centre, passing the green bagua pendant to my strongest energy worker. She happens to the star volunteer at the North Ryde Community Centre and had with her sister just returned from the Philippines as part of a family visit. Her qi after doing qigong for about a year or so, is very strong and can be felt passively radiating around her of about two feet radius. And so I gave it to her with the same conditions attached: Once the pendant can no longer be felt as nothing, it is time to pass it on to the next worthy recipient. Doubly stressing that specific point, so that nobody gets the idea that pendant is a love token. Of which it is not. After Friday's class she quietly came up to me and said “Thank you”. It turned out that her qi had also tanked some-what because she had spent some time in the Philippines showing others her qigong, as I had cautioned her before the trip that may happen. Extended family and friends are what they are. Always wanting to know but not really believing any of it, unless somehow you can do ‘miracle work'. Which is another ball-game altogether that I strongly advise my students to avoid like the black plague because while you are giving all your qi to others, nothing is coming back to fill the energy tank. Even if you were brought up with the belief and that it is holy and noble to help others, qigong requires the practitioner to abstain from being a martyr. Of the one hundred percent that comes in, a part of it is for self nourishment and wellbeing first. It is only what is left, after a practitioner has expanded in qi, that it is used for the betterment of others. Which makes some people wonder just how big energetically I am to be able to put qi into a pendant? The answer is very, very, big. So big in fact, that my energetic presence can be felt by energy workers around the world. So, then, does the pendant need to be jade? The answer is yes and no... Liked what you heard & want to connect with me? Join me at… linkedin.com/in/peterhainzl/

Summary: In this episode of COMMERCE NOW, we are joined by Steve Gotz of Silicon Foundry, and we discuss how banks are increasingly creating new environments and structures to pursue innovative ideas and build new capabilities.  We explore one specific kind of innovation structure: the Venture Studio (also known as a Company Builder). Resources: Silicon Foundry LinkedIn: Steve Gotz Twitter: @stevegotz Blog: The Rise of the Venture Studio Transcription: Amy Lombardo:                Hello again to our listeners. This is Amy Lombardo, your host for this episode of Commerce now. Today I am joined once again by Steve Gotz, of Silicon Foundry, who is a known expert at helping organizations navigate the complex world. Amy Lombardo:                So today we're going to discuss how banks continue to increase and create new environments and structures to pursue innovative ideas and build new capabilities. Amy Lombardo:                So Steve, welcome back to COMMERCE NOW. Steve Gotz:                        Hey thanks Amy, excited to be here. Amy Lombardo:                Great. So it's been couple months here since we spoke last. So what have you been up to here lately? Steve Gotz:                        So, just quick refresher for everybody, my background. I spent a long time launching new ventures for corporations. I've done that as an investor, an entrepreneur, university researcher, and a corporate executive. And most recently I was co-founder and COO of Pivotus Ventures, which was a venture studio I created with Ray Davis at Umpqua Bank. And coincidentally was acquired by Kony recently. Steve Gotz:                        Currently a partner at Silicon Foundry, where I advise large corporations on their new venture strategies. In that role that we're talking about some of the ideas today. Amy Lombardo:                Got it. Okay. So in our last podcast we focused more on transformation strategies. We gave examples, both from banks and even other industries on when they kind of when they hit that wall, that roadblock, and how they partnered with new and other types of organizations [00:01:30] to think about what's next. Steve Gotz:                        Yeah. Amy Lombardo:                So let's shift our conversation here and talk about what an organization knows they need to transform. Kind of this idea of migrating to a new business model, a new environment, and really the intent of Venture Studios. Amy Lombardo:                So maybe we can start with discussing the evolution of this idea of like the Accelerator Business Model. Steve Gotz:                        I think Accelerators is an interesting place to start. So Accelerators, as we know them [00:02:00] today, have been around for about a decade. And they were started during this rich period of famense, right? So it was 2005, a couple years after the dot com bubble. And in many ways, the Accelerators that started back then, and that was Y Combinator, Techstars, would be great examples, they laid the foundation of what's to come today, right? Steve Gotz:                        And Y Combinator recognized that there were some economies of scale to be had by launching start-ups in a different way. And the Accelerator Model [00:02:30] is young teams, lots of bets, and a little bit of money. And when you do that well, you get really interesting companies. Steve Gotz:                        And that's what we've had for the last decade but I think what we're seeing now, is things are starting to change. Technology is starting to change. Corporate strategy is starting to change, which is why now we're starting now to talk about the rise of Venture Studio. Which is a new forum that organizations are using to build new things. Amy Lombardo:                Mm-hmm (affirmative). So does the Accelerator Business Model, does it kind of [00:03:00] compliment the Crowd Storming Idea? Steve Gotz:                        Yeah. So, Accelerators as they started a decade ago, really about bringing young teams together to pursue big opportunities. And at that point if you think about it, right after the dot com burst there was a lot of opportunities so there was a lot of opportunities that the infrastructure had been laid to build things in a cost-effective way. So companies are using Accelerators as part of their innovation strategies. Steve Gotz:                        Now what's happened in the last decade is [00:03:30] a lot of that low-hanging fruit has gone away. The ability to launch a business to scale quickly. The dynamics are slightly different in the current day and age. Because startups need data, they need distribution, they need access to capital. So what we're seeing is that traditional Accelerator Model evolved into the Studio Model. And Studios are different in a couple new ways that we can talk about them but we're entering this period of change when it comes to innovation strategies. And the Studio is just one manifestation [00:04:00] of the change we're seeing. Amy Lombardo:                So talk to me a little bit about this change. Dive into that for me and just kind of talk to me about why and how. Steve Gotz:                        So I think, in Silicon Valley, the era of "Move Fast and Break Things," is over. I think what we're starting to see are more diverse teams, in a broader sense, gender, age, background. I think there's a recognition that launching new ventures requires a diverse skillset. And it needs new kinds [00:04:30] of partnerships. Steve Gotz:                        Launching a start-up by itself as an Accelerator doesn't work as efficiently as it could. Launching a new start-up in collaboration with a corporate that gives you data, that gives you distribution, that helps you access customers. That's really powerful. Steve Gotz:                        So what we're seeing is more and more start-ups. More and more entrepreneurial teams and Venture Studio is coming together, launching new ventures in collaboration with corporates. And that's a really interesting dynamic that we're starting to [00:05:00] observe. Amy Lombardo:                So is it still in these high-tech areas like Silicon Valley? Or where is the Venture Studios? Where are you having the most luck? Steve Gotz:                        Hmm. So this is what's really interesting, right? So Accelerators largely, when they started, were concentrated in Silicon Valley, right? Y Combinator, in the Valley, Techstars in Colorado. What we're seeing with Studios is a dispersion, right? We're seeing Venture Studios crop up [00:05:30] across the country, across the globe. And oftentimes they're locating themselves close to large corporations. Steve Gotz:                        So, High Alpha, one Venture Studio, and they're located in the Midwest. Primarily because the companies that they're building new ventures with are in the Midwest as well. There's another studio in Seattle called Pioneer Square Labs and they're up there and they're looking at really interesting consumer ventures, direct consumer ventures. Steve Gotz:                        [00:06:00] So I think you're seeing the capabilities moving to the most natural place. And that may not be Silicon Valley. That may be somewhere else across the globe. Amy Lombardo:                So even though these corporations might be in these major metropolitan areas, is the talent there as well? Or are these innovators being found then all over the world based on what the need there is? Steve Gotz:                        Yeah, so, it's across [00:06:30] the world, right? Amy Lombardo:                Okay. Steve Gotz:                        It's where is the need? Amy Lombardo:                Right. Steve Gotz:                        And it's launching ventures as close to the need as possible, right? Steve Gotz:                        So a good example would be Heidelberg Cement. So, Heidelberg is one of the World's largest cement companies. They have operations in virtually every continent. And they're launching a Venture Studio and what they're doing is really smart. They're building new ventures in country. Steve Gotz:                        So the problems that you have with cement distribution, say, in Latin America and Brazil, [00:07:00] are fundamentally different than some of the challenges you have in a place like California. So it's natural to take your best people and put them at the edge. Put them close to those problems and say, "solve these problems and do it different ways." Amy Lombardo:                Right. So clearly I know nothing about cement, so I can't even think of the next question. Steve Gotz:                        Nor do I. Steve Gotz:                        But think about this, right. Because there's a lot of similarities between the cement business and the banking business. [00:07:30] Right? Amy Lombardo:                Oh both are important, here we go. Let's get what you're going to say here. Steve Gotz:                        So look. These are both largely commodity businesses, and they're easily swappable, right? You could get a bank account from Wells Fargo, B of A, or any one of the 7,000 or 8,000 banks in America. And largely the product is the product. What can you do with that? Steve Gotz:                        You can innovate around that experience. That's what Heidelberg is doing and that's what most banks are doing today. They're innovating around the experience. [00:08:00] And to innovate around the experience you need to be close to your customers, right? Steve Gotz:                        So creating a banking experience, or a cement experience, in Brasil, is fundamentally different than the kind of banking, or cement experience you want to create in California, right? Did that work? Amy Lombardo:                Wow, wow. Okay. I'm a believer. Because if you were going to go down some path of like brick and motor cement shops closing, I was going to be like, "we're going to be [crosstalk 00:08:28] now because we're not even [inaudible 00:08:33] here." Steve Gotz:                        [00:08:30] And this is why I think banking executives can learn a lot by expanding the aperture and looking outside of the industry for best practices. And it just so happens that what I'm setting is in cement, but we also see interesting things happening in food, interesting things happening in agriculture, right? Steve Gotz:                        So I think there's more that we can learn like breaking down some of the silence and sharing ideas. Amy Lombardo:                Okay so let's go to some examples. [00:09:00] Let's jump ahead there. Steve Gotz:                        Hmm. Amy Lombardo:                You know for people unsure of our business model is, we're working with banks and retailers, can you give me any specific examples of Venture Studios working with banks and retailers? Steve Gotz:                        Yep. Yeah so there's a couple of really interesting examples. So, yeah, one of the ones you know, springs to the top of my mind is what BBVA has done with Dennison. So, three years ago BBVA hired an entrepreneur and said, "we want to build a new business." Steve Gotz:                        They didn't tell them [00:09:30] where he should build a business, they just gave him the free reign to do that. And fast forward three years, and what we have today is Dennison. Which is global bank for expats. So in three minutes or less, as an expat, I can open up a local currency account of one in 20 countries. And if you think about what Dennison has done is they've innovated the customer experience. And that allows them to do really interesting things with global remittances, global payments, currency transfers. Steve Gotz:                        So [00:10:00] a really interesting example of a big, incumbent corporation, like BBVA, saying, we're going to create new ventures, we're going to put structures in place to allow us to build things that probably wouldn't be possible inside of the normal organizational structures. So that's BBVA. Steve Gotz:                        Standard Chartered Bank is doing something similar in Hong Kong with their digital bank there. They just recently received their digital banking license from the regulator, so that's an interesting experiment. Steve Gotz:                        [00:10:30] In the UK, RBS has done really interesting things with S&Me, which is their small business lending platform. So there's a lot of examples and I think what's at the center of all of these examples is corporations coming together with partners to launch new things. Steve Gotz:                        And I think the opportunity for dVault and dVaults customers is to come together and say, "how do we create new experiences, right? How do we take a few bits of the interesting capabilities that dVault has, sprinkle [00:11:00] in a few bits of the interesting relationships that your banking clients have, to create a new kind of customer experience? That delivers value." Amy Lombardo:                Right and you know we think it's always about the touchpoints that a consumer has within a day. And if you think about just financial transactions, it isn't just this one-to-one, I'm going to a bank, I'm taking out cash, I'm depositing checks. Whatever it might be. Amy Lombardo:                It's that you touch [00:11:30] transactions in so many different sets through a day, so how is it that bank can complement that. Steve Gotz:                        Yes. Amy Lombardo:                And provide you with a seamless experience. And those examples that you gave are spot on to that. I love the one about the expat because that could be something that's so laborious, challenging for a consumer, but the bank is adding value there. Steve Gotz:                        Yeah, absolutely. Right. And if we step back a little bit and kind [00:12:00] of think about what's happening here, it's the replatformification of the bank, right? We're creating new ways for the bank to be consumed by customers. Amy Lombardo:                Right. Steve Gotz:                        At a fundamental level, fluctuation doesn't matter for the customer. The customer doesn't really care if you're using distribute ledger or cryptocurrencies to clear the transactions on the back end. They care about what's the experience. And are you making my life easier. Steve Gotz:                        And I think Dennison's a really good example of solving a very complex problem [00:12:30] in an elegant way. Amy Lombardo:                Exactly. Can I get an immediate access to cash? Can I get an immediate access or, you know, what I need to live my life, right? Steve Gotz:                        Yeah. Yeah. And what's really... What I find interesting about Dennison is everybody talks about the unbundling of the bank, right? And transfer-wise, it's often one of those perfect examples that people cite, that you've basically decoupled international payments of remittances from the bank. Steve Gotz:                        [00:13:00] What we're starting to see with Dennison is a replatformification, we're rebundling the bank in new ways that the consumer can then consume. Amy Lombardo:                Got you. Touching on that, unbundling, almost like a macro, [inaudible 00:13:14] talked about it so much in our business models. Steve Gotz:                        Yeah. I think this is a good/. it's good area for you guys. Amy Lombardo:                Okay, so let's say, I'm Mr. Banking Executive and I'm sitting here, and I'm scratching my head saying, "gosh, I [00:13:30] don't know where I need to breakthrough and transform my business. I'm stuck," and I go to you, Steve, or you know the partners that you work with. Amy Lombardo:                How do they begin this process? Steve Gotz:                        So I think there's a couple of points I'd like to make. And so I think the first one is so a general observation, and this isn't restricted to the banking industry, but corporations in general, have a hard time knowing what they have and knowing what the opportunities are. And that's not because [00:14:00] they're deficient, it's just the nature of human biases. Right? Amy Lombardo:                Mm-hmm (affirmative). Steve Gotz:                        When you work at the same place, in the same industry, for a long time, you start to see things in a certain way. The way you break out of those biases is to bring in people with new perspective. Bring in organizations with new perspective. Steve Gotz:                        So I think the first place to start is increase the aperture of your conversations, right? Don't spend time with your peers. Spend time with organizations and executives [00:14:30] that are different from you, right? Steve Gotz:                        So we spoke about cement and banking, there's a lot that can be learned there. So the first thing I would encourage executives and your listeners to do is increase the aperture. Look beyond banking for opportunities to be innovative. Look what's happening in the retail space. Look what's happening in the food and beverages space. Because I think there are things to be learned there. So that's the first thing. Amy Lombardo:                Right. Steve Gotz:                        The second point I'd make in terms of [00:15:00] how to get started is really related to where does innovation live within the corporation? So there was an interesting study a couple years ago where they looked at risk among banks. And what they found was, after a bank appoints a Chief Of Risk Officer, the organization tends to take more risks. And the observation there is, when a job becomes somebody's [00:15:30] function, somebody's role, responsibility now lives with that person. Right? So we now have a Chief Risk Officer, so they're going to manage all of the risk so the organization tends to adopt slightly riskier behaviors. Steve Gotz:                        Now, where this is interesting is with innovation because innovation is everybody's responsibility. Including the CEO. So I think an important take away from this is everybody from the top down and bottom up in the organization [00:16:00] is responsible for doing new things. Steve Gotz:                        Now the nature and scope of what those innovative things may change, may look different, but everybody needs to have a hand in how do we think about doing new things and creating new experiences. Particularly the CEO and the board. Especially when it comes to new things that are potentially really big and disruptive. Amy Lombardo:                I love that thought. So, I'm taking away from this, look outside your industry and everyone is an innovator. Steve Gotz:                        [00:16:30] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Innovators just don't live in Silicon Valley. Amy Lombardo:                Right. Steve Gotz:                        They live everywhere. Encourage them. Amy Lombardo:                Right. I think this is a good place to wrap up the discussion. Steve, it's a pleasure to have you on and join us on Commerce Now. Steve Gotz:                        Thanks Amy. Amy Lombardo:                And thank our listeners for joining. Amy Lombardo:                So if you've got questions, feel free to reach out to Steve. Either via LinkedIn or via Twitter at @SteveGotz. Keep checking in on iTunes or however you listen to your podcasts for new topics [00:17:00] on COMMERCE NOW.

I’ve interviewed 500 of the smartest people in the world. Many of them have discovered major problems in society. And when there are problems that also means there are opportunities for businesses. So Steve and I break down five problems, how they could(potentially) be solved if you tried. I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltucher.com/podcast. Thanks so much for listening! If you like this episode, please subscribe to “The James Altucher Show” and rate and review wherever you get your podcasts: Apple Podcasts Stitcher iHeart Radio Spotify Follow me on Social Media: YouTube Twitter Facebook Linkedin Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Why Dave Decided to talk to Steve Larsen: If you’ve heard the phrase “Lean into it” and “One Step Learning” then you most definitely have heard the name Steve Larsen before. Russell Brunson’s Padawan turned Master uses these sayings and principles to teach businesses and clients how to maximize their profits but today he wants to tell you how you can personally use them. He talks about the how and why behind each principle and how he used these exact principles to go from broke to a business coach. Like always, listen in for some great content and even learn how to maximize your knowledge gained at live events. Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business: (3:14) Steve’s Recent Geek Outs on the who (4:28) What Do You Know About “One Step Learning”? (6:44) Why Dave Loves One Step Learning (9:23) Everything Isn’t New: Steve’s Philosophy on Events (10:44) Steve’s Why’s and How’s for Frameworks (14:04) Leaning In is How Steve Gets Through Challenges (17:22) Sorry To Say It But...The Obstacle Is the Way Quotable Moments: (3:59) “They’re already a great fit, they don’t need to go create the problem and then go find the solution because they’re already feeling the problem.” (6:24) It’s all about identifying where you want to go, where you are, and only learning like a hunter for the next step in front of you. That’s it. Blinders on everything else.” (11:44) “ Understanding what those frameworks are and the natural step that most of the industry is taking that takes out most of the guesswork and it’s pretty hard to fail if you do it.” (16:01) “It’s brutal honesty in oneself and with where you are like, ‘Steven...YOU’RE BROKE’ you know? And being okay with that and not judge your value off that.” (19:08) “‘I don’t have any time’ Great, lean in. It’s not an excuse. I have empathy, but I have 0 sympathy for those kinds of scenarios.” Other Tidbits: Did you see Steve shaking at the Round Table Event at FHL? Our good friend is all good now but that’s just what happens when you’re trying to provide too much content on an empty stomach. With consulting for thousands of companies now, Steve has become amply talented at Funnel Hacking other business strategies to understand the reason they worked for them. Steve was unwillingly diagnoses with the symptoms of ADHD, he had too many goals and aspirations to allow the doctor to fully brand him as ADHD Important Episode Links: SteveJLarsen.comSales Funnel Radio PodcastFunnelHackingLive.com FunnelHackerRadio.com FunnelHackerRadio.com/freetrial FunnelHackerRadio.com/dreamcar ---Transcript--- 00:00     Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Everybody welcome back to funnel hack black 00:18     radio. I literally have one of my most favorite people in the world on the show. He does not need an introduction, but I will introduce him afterwards. I want to welcome to the show with my dear friend, Mr Steven or Steve Larson. Welcome to show, but hey, thanks so much for having me, man. This is awesome. I am so excited. This is, I was going to try to go back. You are, I think what episode? Like 12 on funnel hacker radio. The one of the very, very first ones I ever did. I was so way, way, way back when, way back. Let's figure that one out. But it's been so cool for me to see your journey and you're just such a dear friend. You provide such massive value for those of us who were not at funnel hacking live. I don't know why you wouldn't have been there for some reason if you weren't, uh, just one of the many things that just epitomizes the kindness of Steve. 01:04     Do you want to go by Steve or Steven on this podcast? Which one you want is fine. Okay, so we'll go with Steve. So Steve was basically, they're at funnel hacking live. He was one of our round table hosts. You've already spoken. He just bought a ton of value. He's literally standing on a chair speaking to, he had the most people at anyone. I think we were like eight rows back of people around this circle. And so you basically have the knights of the round table with eight concentric circles behind it. Just couldn't get enough people around him. And all of a sudden I see Stephen sitting down. I'm like, Huh, that's kind of different. It's not normally like to you. And then I'll come over and he's like shaking. I'm like, dude, what's going on? He goes, I haven't eaten and I'm, and I'm like, stop everything. 01:45     You can't talk anymore. But like, listen, you guys are going to kill my favorite person in the world. You cannot do this to Steve though. Visit got us food. But that's just who Steven, I mean Steve, you give so much to everyone and it's just the most generous person in the world. The part I love is you just, you immerse yourself in content to a point that it is far beyond what most people would ever do. And because of that, the value that you're able to give people is so huge. I mean, I had people coming up to me, I would've paid $50,000 just to be, it's even stable. I mean people were so excited to be there, so we'll probably have to pay you next year to be around people. Hose. I was going to say, man, who is that guy? 02:26     But with that I just again see if thanks so much for being on. Anything else you want to say before we dive into some fun stuff and I appreciate that, that you know, I, I, the feeling is mutual. I just about passed out that day. I, I all the tricks, my vision actually boring. I was like, I'm not used to blurring out. And then I felt your hand on my shoulder pulling me down and I was like, oh, thank you. Oh my Gosh Dave. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Crazy. But honestly, the thing that I just love is Steve, you have this ability to connect with people at a level most people don't, which is, I know you're real strong. D I personality anyways. And with that you're, you're so driven, you get at the same time you have this heart of gold that people feel and they're just so drawn to you. I mean, it was funnel hacking live was so fun for me to watch it at the same time, scary because they've literally mauling you, they couldn't get enough of you. And it was just like, and I know you had friends there protecting and everything else, but every once in while it's like, listen back off. 03:27     Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks. So it's just neat to see. But so tell me, what are some of the things that you're, what are you geeking out on these days? What are the things that you're really enjoying the most? Yeah. You know, one of the things I've been focusing on a lot lately is this whole concept of getting more clarity on, on the WHO that we all sell. You know, this past little while, like I'm so geek out so hard on the funnel itself, obviously in the offer and the sales message, but what I've been noticing, the thing is that there's these people out there who frankly have terrible funnels, terrible offers, really bad sales message, but they're making a lot of money and it's been a pattern I've been diving into really in the past eight months and following up and seeing what's happening and the piece that they've all gotten good at is the WHO and they're good at talking to these people who are already a great fit. 04:18     They don't need to go create a problem and then present the solution cause they're already feeling the problem. They don't need to go and see, oh if I already see the, how do I build up the value of this land? They already see the value because they've been trying all the other avenues and products that already exist and because they get clarity on that one piece, the rest of it, they can be terrible at and make a lot of money and has been the thing of a Gig and out a lot lately is how to identify that. Who and where they are. 04:44     One of these you said at funnel hacking live, which I've taken notes on and I'm actually making sure I implement my own life these days. And that is [inaudible] one step. Learning, learning one step ahead. Oh yeah. If you don't mind just kind of explain to people what that is cause it'll tie into exactly what you said when you were talking about this. Who, 05:00     yeah. You know I, it was probably three years after I really started trying to do business on my own and it was, it was challenging. You know, it's very challenging and, and I'm, I'm reading and I'm studying and immersing and I think that's important, especially at the beginning of any journey is to really go deep for a little while. But then eventually you got to stop and put everything down. I remember one day I was riding my bike home from campus. We're broke, we're living on loans, and uh, and I started beating myself up and which if you're listening or watching to this right now, like I asked you not to do that. We all do that as entrepreneurs and it's not really fair to us by what we're trying to solve, you know? And, and, uh, I started beating myself up and I was like, basically, I was like, dude, why are you still broke? You know, I was like, what is going on? And you know, I started doing what we all do little, I know what I would do in that guy's business. I definitely know what he's doing wrong and I'm over here broke, you know, who am I, you know, to say that. And I started kind of beat myself up a little bit and I realized that I was getting stuck in these learning 05:57     loops where I would just study for the sake of feeling motion and the seventh of motion, but not actually doing anything. And for a couple of years, that's the way it was. And for a while if necessary to kind of immerse, but I would, I recommend everybody as fast as you can to put the books down and uh, I'm not telling you not to learn, not to read or study and everything, but the learning style changes. Um, most CEO's, like we all know, they read a book a week, which is great, but most of us in the entrepreneur world are not CEOs yet, but we try to behave like one. And so we consume and consume, consume and all it does is it bogs us down because we're trying to distill all this information figured out to do with it, but we didn't even have a thing to do at two yet. 06:40     And that's the issue. So it's all about, it's all about identifying where you want to go, where you are, and then only learning. But like a hunter, you know, for the next step in front of you and that's it. Blinders on everything else you just learn for to take the step rather than to learn generally hit stop learning generally. I think that's the big piece that would really help a lot of people now. I totally love that. I, it's uh, it's interesting, I went through this, that experience last year. Uh, I end up hiring a whole bunch of different coaches in different areas and um, part of was I just wanted to, I wanted to up my game a ton and one of those I ended up hiring thing I mentioned made a mention to you was, you know, Jerrick Robbins, Tony Son. And I wanted it primarily on the relationship side. 07:19     Um, I've had this experience of uh, being probably a little too direct for people. And it's interesting in my role at click funnels I had obviously I forward facing, I see a lot of people and I want to make sure that I, I care so much about people, but at sometimes I, I'm just, I've got so much on my mind, I'm like, listen, I'm so ROI based that at times I'm like, this conversation is going nowhere. And I ended up too fast. And I thought, all right, so Jerry, I need some help on how to get out of conversations in a kinder way and yet at the same time not spend a whole bunch of time. And so it was fun when I was talking to him because he had the exact same approach that you set and that is, you don't pick one thing you want to focus on what's the one thing. 07:58     And so for like a month we just dive deep into my marriage for a while or we dive deep into how do you communicate with your employees or we dive deep into, you know, different things and literally spend that whole month. And so everything he was giving me, it was just in that one area and the port I I loved the most was I saw such massive growth and areas that I, before I thought I was just kind of dabbling in, but then all of a sudden within a month or six weeks, I would literally get like a year's worth of growth just because of that focused opportunity. Yeah, it was just crazy. And so I, at the end of the year, I basically kind of came down the end and I'm like, jerk, the thing I need next is we're churn for us right now at click is the most important thing I'm working on. 08:40     And he said, well Dave, that's not my specialty. And but he referred me to two different people. One Who, uh, was a dear friend of mine, Dan Martell. So Todd and I hired Gan and we're working through some of his stuff. And then Keith Cunningham who speaks at Tony's mastery is this genius guy on understanding the numbers. And so I'm going to his event in April with gear three white, he happens to be there as well just to really dive in on the numbers, which is something I don't like as much, but I know it's what the next chapter is for me to get involved with. And so I just totally, when you set that at funnel hacking live, I'm like, man, I've, I've had personal experience with that and it made a ton of sense to me. And yet I was, I wanted to literally stop you and say, now listen, everyone, stop what you do. 09:26     It just pay total attention, justice deep right now because this is the only thing I do, the entire event that matters to you is because you go to an event and I've had that experience would go in there. Oh, that's a great idea. That's a great idea. And that's a great idea. And you get done. You're like, I can't implement all this stuff and nothing. And so I just, I just wanted to thank you for that and I want to make sure that people were listening. If you do nothing else, take Steve's advice on that because it's a game changer. 09:50     That's so true. You know, and what's interesting is like, I think because we're entrepreneurs, we're creators and we come up with these new things, we think that everything is new. It really isn't. It's like 80% is the exact same thing as what's already been done. 20% is your little glaze. That is, you know, your creativity. And if you can't name the framework that you're following the model that you're falling, that's where all the wheels spinning feeling comes from. That I've noticed in these coachings that I'll do and what do I do next? What to do next? I'm like, well, you're in the info product model, so just do it. All of them do you know book. Of course I take a thing. There you go. I'm in supplements. What I do. Well, all of them have already proved out how to sell supplements. Like I'm unique, not that unique, you know, get back to the basics. You know I'm special. Not really. You know, it's like, it's so funny. I feel like he can't name what you want, where you are now, the next step and then really understand the model that you should be following that there in lies noise. That's the formula to be feeling lost, you know? 10:47     Well you just mentioned a keyword. I think that people don't understand the importance and that's framework. Russell's done an amazing job, but that you have been a phenomenal job of that. How does a person find the framework and what exactly is a framework if you don't mind addressing those two 11:00     questions? No. Yeah, totally. So if you think about like a phone like Stephen, I'm in the B two B space. When you have to realize is that like if anyone has been selling in that space successfully at all and you are not like you're the variable, right? So you got to go back and he study. You got to look and be like, what is wrong with my business model and what are all these other like it's not so much looking at the funnel, it's looking at the whole business. How are they bringing people in and fulfilling on it? And now they continue to do that and we can look at it from a very 30,000 foot view and be like, okay, this is how most supplement companies are doing it or Btb or retail. It doesn't matter. Um, and you're seeing as a whole, the majority of them tend to be doing it this way. 11:39     And when you can figure that out, the game gets really easy. So your product is what's unique, your sales message or you're the banner that you lead with the charge, you know the beliefs that's unique. You are the attractive character, unique, but you're sitting on top of a model that's extremely proven. And then the game like most of the risk gets taken out of it. And so I can go take s a summit and figure out what the summit model has been and just put my stuff in there. And so understanding what those frameworks are and the natural step that most of the industry's taking, that takes out most of the guesswork and it's pretty hard to fail if you just do it. So what's been your experience to find out what that actual framework is? Cause you just rattled off a dozen different ones and because of your experience and you've literally have consulted with at this point, I would say venture say thousands of companies or clients. 12:26     You've had a lot of exposure to that. How does a person who's new to it tries to figure out how do I find out what a framework is? Yeah, I think it, I mean it takes a lot of homework at the beginning, you know, um, I think this truly is really what funnel hacking is. Um, if you go in and you start looking to see, like I would go see, okay, like all beliefs are upheld by story. Right. And um, I love, I love Ryan holiday. He teaches that when it, basically, the thing I learned from one of his books is that if you want to control an industry, you have to control the content they're consuming. And so that's one reason to publish so much. So one of the things I like to go do is if I'm doing supplements or B to B or whatever it is I'm looking at, I liked that goes personally, I like to go see who the content generators are. 13:10     It's really easy to find them because they usually are the tops of iTunes, the tops of their blogs, the hop and go start listing them out and then see what models they're actually making revenue off of. I found that those who are willing to publish frequently, usually they have some kind of, not always, some of them are just publishing for the sake of it, but it's usually easiest to find people who are both publishing and or spending ad money. So go click on ads, go look to see specifically the content that's out there and start buying their stuff and let them sell you and lean into the sale. You know, like I think it's so funny. Oh they just want to sell me something. Yeah, good de like you're doing your homework, you know, let them sell you by slowly and watch everything that they're doing and you're not just funnel hacking the sales process. 13:53     You're actually hacking their business process and you can start asking questions about the followup, the fulfillment, how many people they have in there and people get excited about their business, actually talked to you about it and you go in and start figuring out, oh my gosh, of the 10 people I just talked to, eight of them are kind of doing this, you know? And you'll see that a lot of the times, even if they didn't mean to naturally industries tend to sell in the similar ways. I love that. You know, one of the things you said there, which you've become quite famous for and that's his whole idea as far as lean in. What exactly do you mean by lean in? I Dunno. Everyone listened and you put a little tough skin on. Now is this all right? Go as tough as you want. Uh, so I keep the coin on my desk. 14:34     So when I was in, I was in college, I started going to some counseling. I was going through a rough time when did some counseling and I got inside of this, um, his counselor's office and he said, hey, have you ever been tested for Adhd? And I got so mad. And I was like, please don't tell me something's wrong with me. Like, who are you to tell me that something's wrong with me? Because I had all these dreams and aspirations and things are doing now and I didn't want to feel disqualified. And so I went and reluctantly took this test. I handed it back to him and he's like, you don't have ADHD but you have a lot of symptoms of it. And I was like, isn't that how you tell? 15:08     And I was like, I don't get it. Well, for a while this became like a banner. I would hold this on my, on my shoulders, like a flag. It was a burden. It was an excuse for me to not be successful. The fact that I was stupid, but the fact that I didn't own a briefcase made me feel like I wasn't professional enough to be an entrepreneur. Stupid but so is everyone else's excuse. Um, I couldn't talk. I was very overweight. Um, I was, I, uh, there's no way you would've gotten me on a podcast. I believe that I am the least likely success story. And if you think about like what? Like it wasn't by me sitting back at, well, I'm not that fat, right. Broke. You know what I mean? Like it. That's what's hard about this is that most of the time it, when you're sitting back with all these people who are trying to build a funnel or a business or being an entrepreneur for the first time, it's not that the models that they're falling don't work. 15:57     They are not working the model. And most of the time what's happening is like the s the stuff between their head isn't geared appropriately for their own benefit yet. And so I have to go back and help them realize like, look, the reason I can talk is because I couldn't five years ago. Right. The reason why I will loop athletic more athletic nails because I wasn't. And so it's brutal honesty in one self and where you currently are, Steven, you're broke. You know, and, and being okay with that and not judging your value off of it, but clearly feeling the state that you're in. Stephen, you're broke. It's even, you're dumb, right? I got kicked out of college. I had to go back four years later and apply and then I had to learn how to learn. And, um, all right, Steven, you're dumb. You don't know how to do this, you don't do this. 16:40     You've got no discipline. You have a video game addiction. You know, and I had to get really raw and real and too many people are afraid that they, um, that they, that they're not to be able to do that. Here's what I've noticed happens in one phone away in 2000 coaching. And that us as adults, most of our train track is actually built for us for the majority of her life. And it should be, you know, hey, you know, I've got three girls. Hey thing one, you cannot throw your spaghetti thing too. You know, like there's train tracks, he can't, there's rules of life. But eventually what happens is, you know, as the truck stop, and I've noticed that the majority of adults that I consult and teach and coach with is that they have never in their life actually picked the hammer up on their own, had a fought put down a track and put them first nail. 17:25     And on their own. They have done everything that everyone else has always told them. They've never had ever gain the confidence to do those kinds of things in their life. And so the whole concept of lean in is that when you think about Steven, what are my tracks? What are the tracks that I need to go down and follow? The reality is that the obstacle is the way, right? If you don't know what the tracks to follow, oh man, you don't know how to talk to you and write it. Dime to get raw. There are obstacles away. Go learn. You're broke, broke as a joke baby. Right? You've got to figure that out. You're lost in the sauce and just admitted, right. It stopped trying to like save face or save pride. No, you're dumb man. You don't have to learn. You know, and just being hard about it. 18:04     I don't know the tracks to go build as right. The obstacle's the way, it's why I keep this coin on my desk, you know, it says the is the way on the Ba. You got Yours too. Nice. So I actually, she even are showing each other our coins. I have to give Chris total credit to Stephen for this. I actually loved the book from Ryan Holiday. The obstacle is the way, but I never took the next step like he did and actually bought the coin. So I bought the coin and then I bought the coin for every one of my, my kids, my wife. And it's so true, Stephen. I love it in Pendleton and advances action, what stands in the way becomes the way best. I love that. And so whenever I get a little negative Nancy or I get poopy pants syndrome and I'm like, man, I don't want to be doing this right now. 18:44     I picked this out and I'm like, look, Larson. All right, what do, what do you want? You know, and stop blaming other people. So that's what lean means. Just lean in to whatever you feel like is your obstacle. You find out eventually it's your super power. No one would know who I am if I did not like, I'm completely convinced had I had the money to get to my first funnel hacking live. I wouldn't have worked for Russell because I wouldn't have had to go learn how to build funnels. I wouldn't have. I learned how to bootstrap. I got me in a certain mindset, but then too many people were like, oh, I don't have any money. Like, man, you are. It is literally tailored to you what you're supposed to be doing right now. But we, oh, easy out. Let me take that. You know, the easy road here, easy streets, like I don't have any time. Great write, lean in. It's not an excuse. I have empathy. Have zero sympathy though for those kinds of scenarios. 19:33     I love it. It's actually a, one of the main reasons we're so excited to have you as our one funnel away coach because you do have so much empathy because you've been there. There's, there's not a single person who can get on a call and say, well Steven, my life is different than yours. Okay. Yes. I mean you've, you've been through it. There's not an excuse you haven't dealt with in your own life or in dealing with other people and I appreciate that. A time that I actually, my kids have more of a man crush on you than they do on me these days. It Chandler and Christian like, oh my gosh, did you hear what Steven said? I'm like, I said that to you, but it doesn't matter. It's Steve set it. So it came from Steve Larsen, therefore it's God and whatever he says happen. 20:09     So, uh, it's been fun for me to see how much they appreciate you because of the fact that you have leaned in. Uh, I was thinking about you this morning. I was doing the stupid bloodflow resistant bands on this box steps that I, for some reason mentally these box, that stupid box step has just, Oh, just has my number. I cannot, I'm literally, I'm crying. I'm mad at Eric. I just want to hit him. I'm just just, but anyways, I agreed after I got done afterwards I sat there and thought, you know, it's the whole idea as far as lean in, if I quit, if I had said, you know what? Oh Gosh, I got to go. Really? I, you know, there's a million excuses that could have come up with and I hate it. Even the first, even hour afterwards, I was still sore complaining to my wife and kids. 20:54     I'm never doing this again. But again, it's that idea as far as leaning in and you become good at those things. And I think again, you've done such an amazing job at that and not just massive Kudos to you for that. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Yeah, that's super cool. Well, tell me, I know kind of get close to wrapping things up here with you and I, I literally could talk to you for hours on end and I'm sure as, as you know, everyone else could do the same. Um, what's the best way for people to reach out to you? Honestly, Steve Jay larson.com and you know, that's the best. It's got all the, it's kind of my funnel hub. You know what a Dj Larson, l. A. R. S. E. N. It's not common. I think that's awesome. You're taking the same Garrett white thing with the, the middle initial only cause the guy wanted, Steve Lawson was asking for like 20, 30 grand. 21:42     I was like, oh my gosh, crazy. No, I totally understand that. Uh, again, if you guys aren't following seed on his podcast sales funnel radio, by all means, please listen to him there. Uh, you should be definitely signed up for the ones on a challenge is literally, it's the coolest thing for me, Steve, just to sometimes I, I laugh only because I hear you louder than I hear my own thoughts when you're in the room. I feel bad man, because if you guys don't know, it's literally on the other side of the wall is Dave and I'm like, crap. He's on a call here at cons and I'm known for the boom boom. I'm like, oh gosh. Well, the best part is there's about three inches of foam on that wall as well. Supposedly is supposed to absorb some of it. But for me, I love it. 22:25     It's a, it's a neat for me to see the excitement that others have following you. Uh, it's, you've been such a magnet to so many people and I think it's really, it's exciting for me to see as we look at our, you know, our two, two Comma Club coaching program, how many of them got started with you? And as they progress in and their sign up again next year because I need more, Steve, I need more of Steve. And it's because you give so much, you're the most gracious guy in the world. You care so much. And again, I think there's a huge difference between empathy and sympathy. And you do an amazing job of really, you'll pour your whole heart and soul into a person who's trying. Yeah. And if they're not, it's like, dude, I don't have time for you. Which is how it should be. Yeah. Any parting words? My friend? Very excited. Thank you so much for her, for having me here. Obstacles away, everybody. Awesome. Thanks Steve. 23:14     Every, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. And one of the things we're really passionate about is trying to get everyone up and running as fast as they possibly can. And one of the things we've done recently that has helped so many people, and that is our one funnel with challenging. If you don't mind, if it's something of interest to you, we actually will pay you $100 for anybody who signs up for the one funnel away challenge. Or if you want to go ahead and sign up and do it yourself, just go to one funnel away. challenge.com again, that's one funnel away, challenge.com sign up, go through a 30 day challenge. Uh, it's one of the great, we've got Russell. Basically give me a 10,000 foot level. Julie's Swain comes in and gives you, kind of hear the nuts and bolts of exactly how to make it work. And then Steven comes in every single day and spends time basically telling you exactly what to do on a daily basis. So he'll you to hold your feet to the fire. Super Accountable. We've had more people get more success and things out of this than anything else. So go ahead and sign up at onefunnelaway.com. Thanks.

Why Dave Decided to talk to Stephen Esketzis: Stephen is a man of many events. With it only being the beginning of March, he’s already been to seven. Now he’s here to share with you how to maximize your effectiveness at any event you go to. With questions from “How do you differentiate between cockiness and introductions?” to the age old question of “Do I need a wingman?” he answers them all. Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business: (1:02) What’s the Takeaway From Every Event You Will Ever Go To? (2:56) Stephen’s Learning Philosophy is Very Similar to Our Other Beloved Stephen (5:54) How Stephen Went to Todd Brown’s Event With the Game Plan in Mind (8:22) Go to the Event and Get Your One Thing, Relationship or Knowledge (11:02) THAT Guy, You Know Who I’m Talking About (14:42) How to Prevent Yourself from “Peacocking” at Events (16:10) It’s Important to be the Connector (19:59) Stephen’s System to Meeting the People He NEEDS to Meet for His Business (21:54) Meeting Strangers is Networking...Just Don’t Be Strange (25:20) Introducing Yourself Without Bragging About Yourself (27:05) The One Question to Rule them All: Do You Need a Wingman? Quotable Moments: (3:34) “For me it’s all about compartmentalizing the content and going to the people I need to at that time.” (15:20) “I think to me the key is to be yourself. Again, I love the whole thing of not being cocky or draw attention to yourself but the most important thing about networking to me is, and you and I have talked about this before, you have to always be adding value.” (25:49) “You describe what you do, you don’t describe the money that you’ve made when introducing yourself to others.” Other Tidbits: Dave started with some of Dan Kennedy’s initial events Just go to the event you need, and get what you need from it If you are one of the people who knows people, then people will know you. Important Episode Links: The Lazy Contact AppFunnelHackingLive.com FunnelHackerRadio.com FunnelHackerRadio.com/freetrial FunnelHackerRadio.com/dreamcar ---Transcript--- Speaker 1:   00:00     Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Every welcome back to [inaudible]   Speaker 2:   00:18     great. This is that kind of crazy deal that happened here and want to make sure you kind of understand what's you're about ready to listen to. So I was down at TAC traffic and conversion this last week and ran into our very first dream car award winning affiliate Stephen. It's gets us. And while we were there, I thought, you know what? He's never actually collected on the his dream car because he was living in Australia. It's like five times as much. And so I thought, what, what if we just get you a Ferrari for the day here while we're in San Diego is we wouldn't out and got a fry. Kevin Nance and joined us and we started filming, drove over to core Natto, hit the Cornell of bridge. Uh, I spent some time over by the hotel del and just had a great time. And while we were there we started walking up and down along the beach and Kevin was filming basically some of the things that he's done that uh, Steven's done to become a number one to feel it. Speaker 2:   01:04     But then also some of the things that just Kinda it lid became this open dialogue of events and why we're traffic conversion, why you go to events and and just kind of a success story type of interview. So I thought it'd be kind of fun just to strip the audio from that and let you guys listen to it. So understand that the audio quality is probably not that great. There was a lot of wind and a, we're at the beach and things but I think the contents worth it. So I want to at least give that to you guys. It's a listen to it, enjoy it and let me know what you think. Speaker 3:   01:32     Steven and I are actually out here. Traffic and conversion. This is the second event that I've been to so far that actually the 30 benefits you so far this year in which the fourth event I pinches of my, the shield. It's been to four events in the first 60 days of the, of the year. And one of the things I've seen Steven at so many different events over all the years, what we want to con talk about is why do you go to an event and when you're adding event, how do you maximize your time? There's a ton of stuff going on. There's networking, there's content. It's really just trying to find out what are the secrets that you can, why does anyone want to go to live event? How do you get the most out of the live event? And that's kind of suffered talked about right now. So it's even having that so far you've been to the ship. Just the first one. This is number three. Number three. So it's, it's pretty crazy. The 25th, 26th of Jan of February. Yeah, this third. My fourth. So inventive 70 ventures. You can be as chair. It's been crazy. So why do you go to events? Look, to me it's Speaker 4:   02:25     the biggest thing initially was the content. Um, when I got into digital marketing, it was all about learning the content, learning what was working and really being able to apply that in my business. But as I've grown as a business owner, as a marketer, it's never become a lot more about the network. Now. It's really been connecting with the right people and really getting in front of those people that are either going to be decision makers or Jv opportunities or maybe you've got some synergistic way to work together. Might not be right now, but you might have something say in the next six months or 12 months or something down the line. So for me, looking back now in reflection of the, all the events I've been to, uh, the Speaker 3:   02:59     networks and the opportunities that have come from that may not have had a direct ROI straight away, but it's just incredibly Roi over time. I think that's, for me, that's one of the things I loved. I remember when I first got started, I was, gosh, it's been over 10 years now where I was going to a lot of Dan Kennedy's and Bill Glazer's GIC events. This is all about breakfast, [inaudible] marketing, even pre internet marketing type of stuff. But I remember it, those events being so fascinated by the people who are crushing it and I want it so bad, he's wanting so bad to be there. I want it. I want to just to feel like I was successful. And at the time I was like, oh my gosh, I'm never going to get there. And you saw all these people who were not just gurus but these are the guys who were actually just crushing it on stage. Speaker 3:   03:42     Yeah. And more importantly in their own personal and business life. And I think the main thing that I saw at that point was how valuable that networking was. Yeah. Cause I agree with, at first it's all about the content where you go and you're there to learn the content and then implementing the content. I think that for me the hardest part was I would get so excited and so motivated there. And then I get home and man life, each of the patients like, oh crap on, never going to be able to do that. And you get hit with so many ideas as well. So you'll like not only do you come back and you, you've lost all your energy, but you're like, well, I know a hundred different ways I can go, which way is the best? So how do you deal with information overload at an event? Speaker 3:   04:21     So for me, all I take going into an event with a bit of a game plan. So I say, well look, where do I, where am I now? Where do I want to be? Who the key people I want to meet and what's the key content that I need to take away from this meant anything outside of that I'll learn, but I know it's not going to be implemented there. And then it's something that I'm going to come back to or might make a note of the people that are experts in that field. So if that issue comes up or I want to learn more, I can then reach out and go back to that note. So for me, it's all about compartmentalizing the content and going to the people that I need to at that time. I should funnel hacking live. Steven Larsen, Tata principle. Speaker 3:   04:53     I think that is so critical, especially when you're attending an event here at the time was referring more towards books in and content things he was learning. But it's this principle as far as just in time learning and seeing and you're just kind of talking about that where you had a game plan as far as when you're going to the event, you're like, you know, I need to learn Facebook trap at or I need to learn copywriting on. I'm going to this event to learn how to shoot video better. Or did you go with a game plan as far as what is the next step that you need? So, so often a lot of us are like, oh, I'm just going to capture every single thing and it never works that way. So Steve was like, okay, it's baby steps. Okay, all I need is I want that step, whatever that information pieces there, that's what I'm going to get. Speaker 3:   05:29     And then it's like one step at a time. I think the problem that most of us have when we go to an event is you get this massive overwhelm. And I think the biggest problem I find for a lot of people who are going to events is they don't go there with a game plan. So excited. They're so motivated. So what were some of the events that you've gone to where you had a game plan and what were you looking to accomplish? Well, I mean, it's off into a whole lot of different events I've been to for the record. Real quick. How many events have you been to? I've seen, I'm into a ton of events and I see you at all, every one of them. Uh, I've Speaker 4:   05:58     lost count. Honestly. I have lost count all the big digital marketing events. I've probably, you've seen me, uh, you know, uh, uh, I don't, like I said, I've lost count. I've been to all the funnel related ones and digital marketing ones, that traffic ones, the even business growth ones overall. Um, there's been a whole mix. Um, but it's, and now we've actually launched our own events company in Australia. So we're running our own Australian digital marketing event, which is crazy. So I've been on both sides of knowing what a good event it looks like as an attendee. And now I'm going to know what a, hopefully a good event it looks like as someone running one. So give me an idea of something where you went there with a purpose in what you got out of it. Yeah, so, so here's an example. I was at a marketing funnel automation run by Todd Brown and other click funnels affiliate actually, who's, you know, did actually, it did really well on the VA first book launch. I remember. Um, so did a really good job. I think he got a car too. It didn't, it was actually our very first dream car award winner. He and Jeff Walker, Jeff got the Ferrari and Todd actually, uh, was given the first check. Yeah, I remember that. So yeah. Anyway, I was at his event, this was going McAfee in years now. Um, and he's events specifically for copywriting and really getting this big idea. Um, it's something that that event is really well known for. And at that time we had an alpha. Speaker 3:   07:11     It's launching a health website. It's, I was like, look, I really want to understand the principles behind creating this offer and getting it right to the right people. So I just circled all the sessions that I had at that time, uh, that I wanted to attend. And that was it. I was just there for those sessions. Anything outside of that, I was going back, working on taking the ideas from what I just learned and seeing how I could implement it. So that way you don't have a thousand things going on. You've got that tunnel vision. So you've got, you've gone to your session, get the takeaways out. One of the ones that are sessions that I got a lot out of was it, Laura was speaking there talking about how they do this copy's lining or whatever it was called. Um, mapping out all their different objections and handling those in the sales process. Speaker 3:   07:50     So I was looking at that and yeah, it was phenomenal. I mean, you know, you take content and then you've got to go back and implement it. I think if you just sit there and then you go, all right, next session, next session. It's like a drug. You just kind of get out of it. You know, you're stuck in there. I mean the contents, awesome, don't get me wrong. But you know, you also want to make sure that you're executing the content. Um, so for me it was just, yeah, you to have that tunnel vision and no, yeah, it comes up. So I know the very first one I went to, and it's sometimes if the person doesn't know what they want, I just tell him, just go and immerse yourself in the experience. So the first time, if you don't know what you're wanting, I would say you just go and just get the feeling. Speaker 3:   08:27     Uh, one of the greatest things for me as far as events is you are with a group of likeminded people, which as an entrepreneur, you'd never remember. You've been doing this a long time now. And the first time, same thing for me. When I first got started, I was like, there's no one liked me. I am all by myself. Yeah. So the very first thing I tell people, if you're trying to go to an event, what I highly recommend the very first time is just go and soak it all in. I don't care if you get anything else out of it. Just besides the idea of what is possible and sometime just that dream, it's capturing the dream. The second thing I tell people is when you're at an event, after you kind of get a little handle for it is to do exactly what Steven said and there's different types of events. Speaker 3:   09:06     So like funnel hacking live is all in one room and it's choreographed to make sure that you get a whole bunch of exact steps that you need to take. A TNC is more of a trade show where it's broken down into multitracks and so you may be on an agency track, we may be on a copywriting track and so you kind of have to find out how the event is set up. But I love what you said and that is too often people go with this idea as far as, I'm just going to get everything. If you get that one thing, all you need is one good idea. Sometimes you just get that one good idea and you're one funnel away. Yes. Right. And what you were talking about was you literally got that and left the event. Yeah. Left. You didn't go off and implement it right then and there. Speaker 3:   09:44     Well I mean cause that's the thing, you're getting shocked. Gung Ho, it's like a machine gun. You're getting all these different ideas, all these different nuggets coming out and they're all great, but you know, or you can only implement so much when you're at that event. Um, and keeping them on as well. A lot of events have recordings that you can take advantage of. So if you don't get it wrong, then the contents oil is generally available light if a purchase or online, um, Nordics as well tends to come out to a lot of events. So you take advantage of those. Um, you know, there's different content opportunities that he's pointing, but when you're there, you've only got one opportunity to connect with people. So for me right now that that's that time opportunity. Do you want to meet people and make the relationships? It's funny, I had this conversation with a friend of mine the other night and it was saying that in digital marketing we're all online, right? Speaker 3:   10:27     But I know the most meaningful relationships with me and coming person. So it's so ironic that we're in a digital industry where everything's done online. All of these funnels online, we'll have hedges online, but at the end of the day, the most meaningful relationships and partnerships and joint ventures and will come from in person events. Um, and I just say that as, you know, it's so powerful. Just if I looked back and I didn't go to one event, there would be no one in the industry would really know. Even the success and any results that I've put together now we'll most likely not be there. And it's also like you said, lonely. You know, it's a, it's a journey that you're going on your own, so you want to have that support along the way. Well, it's funny cause I didn't know steam was coming this week. And so I flew in, left at six o'clock morning flight from Nashville to get out here because I had to be on a yacht, which I know. Speaker 3:   11:11     Tough life. Third World First World problem for sure. So I can get on this yacht, 150 foot yacht brand separate, set up, great experience. And the very first person I see on the yacht is Steven. And I'm like, dude, what are you doing here? It's like I'm networking, I'm knowing these people. And that was before TNC even started. And I think that's one of the things again, all of a sudden you started getting these invites and, and that's the other thing, you know like I think one, one saying I've heard a lot and I totally agree with there's a lot of these deals are done at the bar where whether you're drinking or not, the idea is that you don't have to be in the sessions to be able to do a lot of these deals in network. It's at these after parties. It's up. Speaker 3:   11:47     The networking events is that the mixes? It's, maybe it's just in someone's hotel room, just having a chat and maybe it's just organizing a meeting at the coffee in the coffee store inside the hotel. That's where the real money's made. That's where the real opportunities and the deals are. Um, you know, because it's those one on one connections, all those introductions, hey, have you met this person? And you might be in a group of three people and you'll introduce yourself to other people. So I found like, you know, last night I was at a Clickbank, a sponsored event. And when I went there, there's, you know, or might be in a room with a bunch of people I know, and all of a sudden they're making introductions. Hey, this software is fantastic. If you check this person out, the founders actually just there, let me go get him for you. Speaker 3:   12:23     And one little connection like that at an ad on Facebook is to build the relationship. You'll go home next week and said, hey, you remember when we caught up clickbank? Oh yeah. Awesome. You know, I can't wait. Can you actually tell me a little bit more about what you do? I'll try it on my offers and away you go and that could be a huge successful partnership on that. I love that. So a couple of things as far as networking goes, don't be the person who's basically a whore just handing out all their business. That's probably wrong terms here. Don't be a person sleazy dealt be a sleazy person who's just as right. They give away their gifts, their business cards to everybody. We actually all hacking life and someone was actually putting their business cards on the top of every year and they're like, dude, are you serious? Speaker 3:   13:02     You think that's been known as the Urinal Guy? That's terrible. Why would I want that? I never have any business cards and there's a couple of reasons why for me, I never want a business card because I know what I do with business cards when they get home I get, they just get thrown away. They didn't typically don't even get home. They typically go right in the trash. What I want is I want some grabbing their phone and I want them entering my contact information in their phone or to take a picture with the two of them. So you all of a sudden he grabbed the phone and we'll just even do this with Steven and I saw all of a sudden just grab your phone Elvis. You say, Hey, you know what I mean, take this picture right now. That picture now goes into the contact information with Steven so I can now send them a text or anything else saying, hey, it was great connecting with you at TNC. Speaker 3:   13:44     Now we've got more of a relationship and you can respond to that. So I've, I haven't carried business cards in year one little hack for this and it's actually why I built this little free app and it's going to be a small plug here, but I promise you it's going to pitch or anything is a pitch and it's not a pitch. I'm not going to pre sell you. There's not always be trolls. There's not going to be a stack. Um, but uh, credit this APP called lazy contact. And what it does is you put your information in and then all you do is scan the person's foreign. Exactly. It. Just pull out your camera and you just hovered over the tall. Then I can get a picture of this and then that adds contact. You Click it and then you just hit save and now you've got my contact information. Speaker 3:   14:26     Dude, that was really it. You've got my number, my name, my company, every day. I want that. Yeah, that's fantastic. Rosie, contact, lazy contact, purple F, lazy contact. I'm sure it's in the APP. So free. Totally true. Anyway, all right, so one of the things I always get asked is how do you dress for the event? Now, this kind of stuff, I never, ever, ever do it. The only reason I'm doing this today is because I had to pick a Ferrari that I didn't own and I bought. You know what? Easiest thing is more bling I have. The less confusing it's going to be for the people and it worked. I literally got in the car, put my hand on the steering wheel in the very first thing. The guy goes, dude, what sport did you play? Well, I didn't actually win this at a sport. Speaker 3:   15:06     I said, actually that's one of our 10. It's our eight figure ward. He goes, what is that? Oh, it's free business had done over $10 million. And he's like, dude, you guys are making some serious money. No questions asked after that. As far as what, what actually his question was, how do I become a sales guy for you? That was the other question. So normally I do not dress like this when I'm at an event. Um, I prefer to be a little more casual. Stephen's attires we probably too casual today, but uh, you know, uh, I've had a mixture of it tell us. I think it really depends on the context as well. It does, it depends on what you want to get out and we'll talk to the impression you want to make, what event you're going to. If you're going to a networking event then you know, maybe would be more casual or if you go into it like last time there was a market as bullying might want to be a bit more dressed up. Speaker 3:   15:50     Um, I don't think there's a term I've heard called peacocking. I don't know if that's a US thing, but you want to be like super cocky. This is total be deciding to when you're just standing out with everyone. Um, that's not my vibe. Uh, I like to just know mixing in and, you know, go with the flow. I think as long as you follow the dress code of what the event of you've done with precise business, casual is always safe. I'm typically button down shirt, jeans. Um, I prefer a tee shirt sometimes that's a little casual and fun. Yeah, I was just going to say, and it also depends on the weather of the place. That was the biggest problem I had with this trip was on one day I was phrasing. So I had three jackets on another day. Like today I could be in shorts and a tee shirt. Speaker 3:   16:34     Um, you know, and not having any problems. So all of a sudden make sure you definitely check the weather of the event you're going to give us. I've made that mistake flying from Australia, told theU s events and I'm leaving from one climate, going to the exact opposite of another. Um, so yeah, that's, I don't want to tip, but check the event and check the weather. I think the key is just be yourself. Again, love the idea as far as don't do the whole peacocking thing where you're drawing attention to yourself. The most important thing about networking for me, you and I've had this conversation before and that is you have to always be providing value. Like what Stephen just did as far as, yeah, it's his own app, but the value app, that APP was huge. And I think that the key is just provide value to people. Speaker 3:   17:15     And sometimes when I remember I first got started, I thought I had no value at all. In fact, I was talking, uh, so we had a dinner cruise last night with 112 people that we knew in this area. And, uh, Keith Yackey and Pete Vargas won't see we spot click funnels sponsored it. It was pizza and, uh, Keith event. But the cool thing about it was there was really no peacocking going on and there was no, no one was trying to one up each other, but they were all trying to provide a ton of value. And the one thing that Keith said last night that that was so important that was the connector gets all the love. And I was like, Keith boy talking about, he goes, well dude, you're not going to, I've known Keith for over 10 years now and I've seen him at different events and he loves to be the connector. Speaker 3:   17:58     And what I mean by that is he's not providing any value per se as far as he's not up on stage teaching about how to do Facebook ads or youtube and Nielsen. One thing that he loves to do is connect people. And he says, the connector gets all the love. And as we were shaking hands with everybody as they're written off the yacht last night, well they were saying was they were just so appreciative for that event because it connected people that brought people together, provided them an opportunity. Now you don't have to do a whole yacht experience, but what you talking about was just even in the bar and you're like, oh, you know, I actually know someone who would be great for you so you're not taking it all on yourself. You're saying, you know, Steven, let me introduce you to Kevin. Kevin's great at at videos, great at this kind of stuff. Speaker 3:   18:37     And Steven's like, awesome. He will remember me as that connector. And the more connections you can make with people, more value you can provide to people, the greater of a resource you are then perceived in the eyes of everyone else and then all of a sudden everyone's like, I don't know who, who does this? Who does that? Soon you become known as the person as the Goto. I don't know who it is right now, but as Steven, he'll know someone for sure. And that's the one of the things, if you don't feel like you have any content value, be the connector, that connector value gets all the love. And I'm thinking of the other ones to add on top of that as well as host events. Like you said, like feel free to host your own events even if they're not around a specific, you know, might not be a monster one or something, but it might just be a casual drinks and say, hey, we're watching this unofficial get together full this event. Speaker 3:   19:20     And that's a great way to kind of capture attention for attendees. You might not even know. Cause I remember the very first time I came out to trafficking conversion summit, I was about 19 years old, something like that. Those are probably the same Thomas sided with quick funnels as well. And um, I attended a Superbowl party and someone posted in the Facebook group, I think it was the click funnels group saying Bruce at TNC we've got a, a, you know, a Superbowl party going on, whole bunch of young entrepreneurs, feel free to come if you want. So I sent them a message. I said, look, I literally just landed two hours ago off their 21 hour trip we'd love to attend. I went there and now looking back, four years later, these people are running eight nine figure businesses and these people are young like, you know, then my age, they're doing these crazy things. Speaker 3:   19:59     Back then they would just get into the industry there. They're running some crazy businesses. I'm using click funnels of me, affiliates doing whatever they're doing in the marketing world, but it just a one little random catch up and I made the effort just to say, yeah, I'd love to come. Well, you know, let's do it. Let's just organize, put yourself out there a little bit outside the comfort zone and I need nobody, you know, some guy from Australia who didn't know anyone and just say, look, I'd love to attend. Or you know, what can I bring to the party? How can I make it better for you? It just helps, you know. So little things like that. Put yourself out there, host some events around for the bigger conference or is a great way to network. I told him these weird just kind of talking about it as far as the event side of things at the wholesalers, all own events. Speaker 3:   20:39     Uh, last year actually here at TNC, uh, Andrew Warner was here. It was on the, the dinner yacht. Uh, we did with Pete and key and then like what you said, he ends up hosting Scotch night and he just invites him bucks buddies up and they drink scotch. I don't drink but it was so kind of him to invite me and so I had the opportunity to just be in there and mingling and just getting to know each other. And I think it kind of brings up the thing that you would allude to earlier, Stephen, and that is kind of having a target hit list of even the people you want to meet and of just go in there. I'm just going to be every single person out there. How do you kind of identify who it is that you want to meet? At an event. Look, it is tough. Speaker 3:   21:16     If you've never met, if you've gone, they'd called and you haven't met anyone. I think you've got to really build a segmented list of people that you want to make. Um, you know, are you looking for people who might be affiliates, even for people who didn't want to have a channel partnership opportunity with you? Are you looking for speakers? Are you looking for, you know, what's that little niche of people you're looking to speak to? And then within that, I think you'll get opportunities and introductions to be made to specific people to go even deeper and say, Hey, do you know anyone that might know this person in particular? Uh, and then get an introduction like that. I think when you go to hard to meet someone directly, um, it, it looks like a cold approach and sometimes it looks a bit too difficult to, you know, they're kind of wanting to get something from you first. Speaker 3:   21:58     So when you want to provide value, I think I typically try to surround myself in that circle. And then once I surround myself with people in that circle, I'll go in and say, Hey, look, I'd love to connect with you know, this person. Do you know someone who knows him well or do you know someone who knows her well, uh, and catch up with them. But that's kind of my approach is kind of build that segmented audience, hang out with them, provide value with them, buy a ticket to the event of whatever they're hosting. If it's a scotch night, if it's a boat party, whatever it is. That's kind of an also joining masterminds and things like that. One thing that I love doing is joining masterminds and networking with people through events like that. That's how I met Brandon through the yacht we had a few days ago. Speaker 3:   22:36     Um, and then again, I'll introduce you to other people that you need to know. Sometimes you're not even the person that knows who needs to know people. So what I mean by that is he'll say, hey, you definitely need to meet this person. Um, you know, you don't know you need him yet, but you'll definitely needed for this project. You've got coming up. So I look, I tend to work in little groups. I like to compartmentalize, people are hanging out with, and one other thing as well that I was telling another friend while I was here is not spending the whole event with the same group of people. That's something so many [inaudible] um, you know, I've got a whole bunch of friends from Australia that came here, were hanging out last night, but some of them have hanging out with each other the entire trip. And I'm just saying that it's such a waste. Speaker 3:   23:17     Like you don't want to waste your time with one group of people because you ruined the whole three or four day opportunity you've got. So try to keep meeting new people each night. Go to a different event, may go on your own if you have to. Even if you've got friends, it's great just to get out of your comfort zone and meet new people and build groups in different areas. We'll let that tell a couple of things. Don't be the stalker. That's right. There's nothing worse than as you were sitting there talking. I'm like, I can't tell you how many times. I mean I've, I've known Russell for 10 years and even before I was a partner in click funnels when I was with them at events, it was one of those things where I would see people literally just stalking him and, and you get to the point where he'd like, if a person's going to the bathroom, that's the worst place to try to introduce yourself. Speaker 3:   23:59     Let them have their space and their piece and you just do all and be that person. If you are stocking someone, your value decreases. It diminishes so fast. If you want, try to find, again, everyone's kind of familiar. This whole idea as far as six degrees of separation, you want to find people who are two degrees of separation, one degree of separation away, ideally for the person that you're wanting to spend time with. Um, I love what you're talking about as far as don't spend time with just the same people. It's really, events are super uncomfortable for all of us. I don't care how much of an extrovert you think you are, if you're brand new to an event, it's man at times insight. In fact, classic example with Brandon Jot, so the very first night I had been at funnel hacking live for six days, I was exhausted and I flew over six in the morning. Speaker 3:   24:46     I get on the yacht, my son's on the yacht with me and I'm like, know what? I just want to go back to my hotel. I just, I don't want to be here. To the point where let me walk down the steps and was looking to see the gangplank was still attached to the boat and it was taken off. I'm like, I think I could still jump off and get off there and just sudden bout ready to start walking there. The first may goes, hey, hey, hey, we're done. You can't get off now. And I'm like, ah man. I'm like, I don't want to be here. But I was so glad that there wasn't have the up to spending time with. You had a great, it was great for my son to spend time with Brandon and Brandon was so generous with his time with my son and just the opportunities. Speaker 3:   25:22     You have to understand that even as an extrovert, you still are going to be exhausted at times. You don't want to get out, but realize you only have that certain two or three day window if you're an introvert, same type of thing. Find someone who basically can be the extrovert for you if you need that, but you need to make sure that you get out of your comfort zone. You need to be the person who is doing everything you possibly can. As you made mentioned, you're only here for two or three days. Don't be with the same group of people. Get outside your comfort zone. Make it as uncomfortable as possible. Try to get to meet people, but most importantly, try to provide value. Speaker 4:   25:54     Yeah, absolutely. I think it makes sure of all these, even if you get one or two things wrong and what we're talking about today, you're going to go to malls ahead of the people that are just sitting at home in the hotel room. It's a numbers game, you know, go out in. The more events you go to, the better. The more people you meet the bed better. The more of these things we're talking about. The you try it the better. And over time you'll feel your experience on how confident you are, how you approach people, how you network, what your strengths are, where you think you might, you know, want to work on. It's just a, you know, it's a numbers game. This is more experience you've got, the better you'll get at this. I love that. Speaker 3:   26:25     So I want to kind of talked about this idea as far as what's the difference between basically bragging versus introduction. How do you, how do you, do you need to provide value in? People need to know who you are, but how do you do it without bragging? I mean Speaker 4:   26:36     nothing. Just one thing that comes naturally to more people than I'd like it to. I think especially these be especially in, yeah, Speaker 3:   26:44     it means event and I think it's, it's also a very close link to your ego as well. Um, so I mean, the way I do it, I always ask what other people are doing in their business. You know, how I can help them, what I do, and then I really don't talk about, well, my business is, unless they ask to the, unless it makes sense in the conversation. But even at that point, you describe what you do. You don't describe the money you've made over a campaign. You don't describe that, oh, you know, I'm a 15 figure affiliate for x, Y, and zed company. You know, like all these things that you know, kind of people don't need to know, but you want to make yourself put yourself on a pedestal. It, there's just no place for it. People see through it. I happening. It kind of makes you look just not as successful as you really, I, it's called him actually shooting yourself in the foot because there's no need to really go out of your way and tell people how good you are if you're in fact that good. Speaker 3:   27:30     So, you know, I, the way I see it is your network is your net worth. And it's a bit of a corny statement, but I know that I've seen that in spades. The more people you have around you, that successful people are gonna know you're successful. There's no need to brag. Um, yeah, I think that's all it really is to it. I love it. I think for me, one of the most important things is when you're talking to someone, make sure you're asking them there at that event. Find out what their, therefore see what value you can bite to them. So, hey, so Steven here, where are you from? Blah, blah, blah. All the nicety type of stat real quick. But really most importantly is what are you looking to accomplish? What are you trying to do? What are you trying to learn here? Who you trying to connect with, find out what's important to them very quickly the walls will come down and you'll find that you have an opportunity to trying to provide value. Speaker 3:   28:14     And even if you don't know the answers to it, the fact that you're asking more about them than you were asking about you're telling about yourself. Yeah. It just makes the conversation so much easier. Absolutely. I think you just want to keep it smooth, succinct, um, and really just enjoy the company more than anything. I don't think you want to have another agenda or either when you're going to meet somebody, you really want to just go there and get to know them as a person. And I think people really appreciate that. I love that. All right, so Steven, how important is it to have in a wing man? Look, we man's a great, uh, I think, you know, if you can have someone there with you to help introduce you to people, that's always going to be an asset. Whether I go out of my way and get someone, they're probably not. Speaker 3:   28:49     Um, you know, I'm not going to hire someone to come and say, hey, this is Steven. Like I think it comes naturally once you get to know people, you know, people just do this. And I think if you're going out and hanging out with your friends and you go to an event or a party or a networking, not, it's naturally going to happen. If you're quite humbled in that option, people are going to want to say, hey, Steven's being super, you know, you know, he's not bragging at all, but he's actually awesome, x, y, and zed. And I think he's just got to, you know, the more humble you are, the more reason there is for other people to really lift you up and say, look, this guy's like, he's not telling you how he is. He's a baller, he's awesome. He's really good at x, Y, and zed. Um, that's what you need to know about him. I think that's a really good way to bring it across. I totally agree. Speaker 2:   29:28     Well, what'd you guys think? I'd let us know. Again, it was kind of a different type of an episode, but I'm actually looking at doing some other crazy trips here in the next couple months and thought we might start doing a little more of these, uh, sporadic interviews on the fly. So let me know what kind of, what you thought. Feel free to send me a personal message or a Facebook or Instagram. Uh, leave a comment down below on iTunes or Stitcher, wherever you might listen to. We check all of those. Obviously. Feel free to email me as well. Thanks so much. Have a great day. Talk to soon. Remember you're just one funnel away.

It's the day after National Signing Day.  Who better to join us than 247Sports Director of Recruiting Steve Wiltfong to put things in perspective? Nobody. So Steve is here. What did he think of Ohio State's Class of 2019 haul? Is it really the third-best class in the Big Ten? We break it all down and Steve gives you the real deal. Also: * How did Day and Co. hook a Hawaiian so late in the process? * Dawand Jones: Boom or bust? * Look ahead: Where to focus for 2020? * Is Jack Sawyer actually a superhero? Spend 5ish with us this a.m., 'Nutters! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tips on how to make things happen by Steve Sims And most people I know, they dream too small I am a 100% referral business. So every client that comes to me comes from somebody else introducing them People don't ask for what they want Money is always the second, third, and fourth chapter of a conversation The Distillery is very important for me because I'm really excited about people's growth. Too many people think you have to plan for perfection. And perfection does not exist I've failed so many times in my life. I'll probably fail on something tomorrow. But I fail up _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN Too many people think you have to plan for perfection. And perfection does not exist _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug Morneau: Well, welcome back listeners to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today is not only going to be real fast it's going to be really fun because the guest today that I've got specially lined up for you has been called the man with the coolest job in the world in a recent publication that was put out by Forbes Magazine. So Steve Sims will be joining us in the studio here shortly. And I got to know Steve through his assistant who had sent me an email saying, "Hey, I think," Sam Miller sent me an email saying, "Hey, I think you'd like to hear from my boss. He's a pretty smart guy. He's doing some really cool stuff with his company." And so I started to dig in to look at his background and it's a pretty amazing story. So I think if you're open to it Steve's going to kind of maybe help you shift your thinking and think a little bit bigger and ask for bigger things and just see what's possible. So Steve is the founder of a company called Bluefish and Bluefish is one of the top personal concierge services in the world. He's also an expert marketer within the luxury industry. Steve's been quoted in a variety of publications and TV including the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, the London Sunday Times, the South China Morning Posts, and many more. He's also the best seller of a book called Bluefishing: (It's) The Art of Making Things Happen. So he's a sought after speaker and consultant. And he speaks to a variety of networks and groups and associations, as well as the Pentagon and Harvard twice. So he will set up whatever experience you're looking for through his company Bluefish. So if you wanted to sing with your favorite rock start or if you wanted to be serenaded with Andrea Bocelli or walked on the red carpet with an A-list of Oscar parties, get married in the Vatican, dive to the wreck of the Titanic. These are just a few examples and highlights of what Steve has been asked to provide for his clients. So he seems to make the impossible possible. And he's quoted as being the real-life Wizard of Oz by Forbes and Entrepreneur magazine. So as an entrepreneur in the truest sense of the word, Steve is well-regarded within the luxury world for his innovation, down to earth personality, which will come through as we move into our interview. He's known for his honesty, integrity, and doing things his way. So Steve creates experiences for clients that they could never imagine possible. So we're going to have him share how we can take this knowledge and we can roll it out into our businesses to do things for our clients and grow a business that we never imagined possible. So with that being said, I'd like to introduce to you and welcome Steve Sims to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast today. So I'm super excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast. How are you doing today? Steve Sims: I'm going good, thanks. Thanks for having me. Doug Morneau: So looking at your background and looking at your social media and all the media attention you've got, you're a pretty amazing guy.

Summary: In this episode we'll discuss how organizations can keep up, and what is expected in order to stay ahead of their competition.     Resources:   Blog: Services for a Connected World  Silicon Foundry LinkedIn: Steve Gotz Twitter: @stevegotz   COMMERCE NOW (Diebold Nixdorf Podcast)   Diebold Nixdorf Website   Transcription:   Amy Lombardo:                00:00                     Hello again. This is Amy Lombardo, your host for this episode of COMMERCE NOW. This year we've seen some significant technology trends, and we know the knowing your audience and increasing the level of personalization is key to the success to this ever changing digital world. But this can be easier said than done, right? So, in this episode we'll discuss how organizations can keep up, and what is expected in order to stay ahead of their competition. So, listeners I've got a real treat for you today. I'm joined by Steve Gotz who is an expert in working with executives to create impactful corporate innovation strategies. He has over a 20 year background working with a range of global organizations such as AT&T, General Electric, and Symantec, and one thing that you'll be most interested in is his recent work with Umpqua Bank, which we'll touch on a little bit in this discussion. So Steve, thanks for joining me today. Steve Gotz:                        00:49                     Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Amy Lombardo:                00:50                     Wonderful. So let's start a little bit with your background, and just really what keeps you up at night. Steve Gotz:                        00:57                     I think what keeps me up at night is relevance. So, my background. Quick intro. So, 20 years working with big companies like you said in industries that are undergoing change, and a really interesting thing is it doesn't matter what the industry is. Corporations are really in a race for relevance, and whether you're an entertainment company, whether you're a movie studio, whether you're a bank you have to think about ways to be relevant to your customers today and into the future. Amy Lombardo:                01:23                     So, that's an interesting comment. Okay. Race for relevance. Could you dive into that just a little bit more for me, or maybe give me an example of some recent work you've seen on how someone has caught up or stayed ahead maybe of the race for relevance? Steve Gotz:                        01:35                     Yeah. So, I think a really interesting one that I can point to is AAA. The automobile club, right? So AAA is an American institution, and their business model up until now has been predicated on your car breaking down on the side of the road, you're picking up the phone, you're calling them, and them sending somebody there to help you. Now, a couple of years ago they recognized that they're sitting on a dinosaur. That business model isn't going to exist 10, 20, 30 years from now. We have autonomous vehicles, when we have cars that don't break down with us behind the wheel, their business model needs to change. Steve Gotz:                        02:11                     So, what I think they've done is really interesting, right? So they're investing in infrastructure and thinking about how can AAA be relevant inside of the home, and I think that's a great example of an incumbent corporation that's saying, "You know what? We're going to face this head on, and we're going to drive this change. We're going to drive this disruption rather than waiting for us to be disrupted by the market." Amy Lombardo:                02:32                     That's such a great example because AAA is something that I just rely on so heavily in my own life, but I haven't thought about yeah what would be next for a business like that, or thinking back to the stories of like Kodak or Blockbuster or something. Why it did or did not work for them because their business models needed to change with the rate of pace of change here. Steve Gotz:                        02:53                     Yeah. So, the last couple of months for me I've spoken to maybe 200 executives. So these are CEOs, Chief Digital Officers, Chief Technology Officers, entrepreneurs about what's changing in their business, and what's really interesting is we've kind of gotten through this first era of innovation. So, every corporation talks about innovation being one of the most five, one of the most 10 important things that they're focused on. But if you look at the number of ideas that have come from an innovation lab that have found their way to production inside of big corporate, that number is pretty small. But I see happening now and with people are talking about is this second wave of innovation. This more impactful, this more intentional strategy to say, "We are going to build things that are going to change our business." Steve Gotz:                        03:41                     And change our business in a way that is going to make us relevant into and beyond the 21st century, and this is different, right? So I think you said at the beginning. When I started my career, I started at AT&T labs in the music industry, and this was at the beginning of the rise of digital distribution before we had iTunes. When we took this, basically AT&T invented something underlying technology to iTunes, right? Secure digital distribution. And when we took it to the labels, the music labels at that point, their response was really telling. The response was, "We're not interested in this. We sell things. We sell things that spin. We're never going to sell our music over the internet." Steve Gotz:                        04:20                     So, this was in the late 90s, and that was your classic Kodak response from an incumbent. Fast forward 20 years, and when I talked to bank CEO's, they don't talk like that anymore. What they talk about is, "Yes, absolutely. We need to change. We need to create new experiences, and here's how we're going to do that, and here's where we are doing it." Right? So, this idea that the banking industry is facing a Kodak moment, I'm not an advocate of that line of thinking, right? I think the banking industry is responding very differently than some of those other traditional industries that have been disrupted. Amy Lombardo:                04:54                     Right, okay. No, that makes sense. So, in some of my research on you, the work you've done, you've talked about this idea of the innovation theater, and is that what you were speaking to earlier, which is kind of this innovation 2.0? Steve Gotz:                        05:08                     Yeah, that's exactly it. So, if you look at kind of the last 10 to 15 years of innovation, it's very clear that companies are recognized they need to be more innovative. However, the tools, methodologies, and frameworks they've deployed, they resulted in what some people call innovation theater, right? It's really pretty, you go into the innovation lab, you see an interesting application. But then when you pull back the curtain to say, "Well, what's the path to production?" Right? How many customers are using this? That's where you tend to realize there's not much substance there. I think a lot of people have recognized that, and now they're thinking about, "All right. How do we do that?" Steve Gotz:                        05:45                     Right? So, we're seeing this kind of growing kind of drive. An increasing number of corporations that are sending out new company builders, new organizations designed to create things, and scale things up, right? Don't just show me something in the lab, show me how you take what's in the lab, and get it in front of all of our customers, and make us more relevant. Amy Lombardo:                06:08                     Right, right. So, the example Steve you're giving about this innovation theater, almost like the innovation smoke and mirrors, I'm also kind of thinking in banking terms now of what Chase has done with the everyday express branch, and Capital One with the café branch, I mean these are realistic examples of innovation- Steve Gotz:                        06:30                     Yeah. Amy Lombardo:                06:30                     That has now been brought to life, and the results and at least the studies show that consumers are gravitating quite well to these concepts. Steve Gotz:                        06:38                     Absolutely, and especially around banking. The Capital One café, it's a really interesting idea, and I think it kind of gets to this point that physical is still important, right? Being able to bridge digital experiences with physical experiences, that's kind of the next competitive battleground. And I think Capital One, Umpqua Bank, I think we ... And even Amazon with Whole Foods. I think we see an increasing number of organizations getting much more sophisticated at spanning the omni channel experience. Amy Lombardo:                07:10                     Right, right. So you mentioned Umpqua, and that is such an interesting case study here. So, tell us a little bit about the work that you did with that bank. Steve Gotz:                        07:18                     Right. So, Umpqua is really interesting. I got connected up with Ray Davis in 2015, and Ray is kind of an iconic figure in the banking world. He grew Umpqua from $100 million in assets to about $24 billion in assets, and he was really driving the industry, and created a unique customer experience, right? So, for Ray they're not called branches, they're called stores. In those stores, there's a very unique experience when you go in. A store are part of the community, a store holds coffee hours. People could use the store as a co-working space. So, Ray and Umpqua is really kind of the leading edge of the ideas that we're talking about today, and so much so the now Capital One is kind of borrowing some of the ideas that Umpqua pioneered a historic concept. Steve Gotz:                        08:04                     So, I got connected up with Ray in 2015, and in the first conversation he was like, "Look, the bank I built for the last 20 years isn't the bank that I need for the next 20 years, and I need some help to figure out what that new bank is." So, the mandate was figure out how to pivot the bank, right? Ray is a gentleman who likes to name things what they do, so it wasn't a digital adventures lab, it was Pivot us. Easier to pivot the bank. So, we started down this path, and what we got to fairly quickly was the banking relationship is a unique relationship. Money is such a loaded topic for people, for consumers, and 20 years ago the banker was your neighbor. Steve Gotz:                        08:41                     The banker knew your first name, they knew your kids, they gave them a lollipop when they walked into the store, right? There was an experience attached to that, and when we fast forwarded today, and we the state of digital he said, "It's impossible to create that really personalized digital experience right now with the technologies that were available." So, the question was how do we engineer the human in? How do we create that personalized experience through a digital channel? And that's what we set out to build from. Amy Lombardo:                09:11                     I think that's so interesting that you say that because a few years back we had this interesting study, that was how consumers could differentiate their toilet paper brand over their bank brand, and I say that. And of course, the source is escaping me, but- Steve Gotz:                        09:29                     Right. Amy Lombardo:                09:30                     But it was all around the fact that banking had become this emotionless interaction. No, really it was more the transaction. You need to move into an interaction here, and your examples here of putting the human element bank in is a perfect way for banks to be thinking about this. Can you give our listeners some specific technology examples if those are relevant and okay to [inaudible 00:10:00] out here? Steve Gotz:                        09:59                     Yeah. So, before I do that going back to your idea of kind of toilet paper brand and banks. Amy Lombardo:                10:07                     I know you didn't think that what was going to come out of my mouth. Steve Gotz:                        10:12                     If you kind of step back a little bit, and you kind of look at how the industry go to where it is today, what you see is in the pursuit of cost efficiencies, the customer experience has been lowered significantly. In the last 20 years, the industry has done what it should have done, right? Which is use technology to be more efficient. But in the active being more efficient, they've created a customer experience that's not that great, and by lowering that bar so far it's now become really easy for two kids in a garage in Palo Alto to create a new mobile banking experience that can run circles around most of the existing incumbents, right? Steve Gotz:                        10:55                     Now, the opportunity is to change that. There's no reason that two kinds in a garage in Palo Alto should be able to create a better experience. Incumbents can do that, which is where we get to this idea of, "All right. How do we create new teams? How do we create new environments to build these things?" And that's kind of really what we did at Umpqua. Ray's mandate to us was don't go give us some prototypes. It was figure out how to keep us relevant. So, that started with the customer relationship. We said, "How do we take that in-store experience that we have today that really personalized experience when you walk into the store, and create that, and then catalyze the experience in an additional channel." Steve Gotz:                        11:35                     So, when we looked at the technical landscape, what we said is, "The future of the industry is chat based. It's dialog based systems." So, let's think about how we engineer the human in, and do that at scale. Let's think about how we can deliver a chat interaction, a highly personalized chat interaction with a human. So, what we started building is eventually we started using WhatsApp, and some of the existing chat platforms. But very quickly we ended up building our own application primarily for security and privacy reasons, right? So, if you're using Facebook Messenger as a bank to service your customers, if you're using WhatsApp there are potential privacy implications that come along with that, that we were uncomfortable making. So, we ended up building our own technology stack. Steve Gotz:                        12:24                     And essentially what we did was we put a device in the hands of our employees, of our associates in the store, and said, "You now have the opportunity to chat with customers." So rather than make this a call center initiative, we pushed it out to the edge, and the response was phenomenal both from customers, and from our employees. Amy Lombardo:                12:44                     Now, was that a cross-channel application to where that chat feature was available both on mobile, and online? Steve Gotz:                        12:52                     Yeah exactly, and the idea of it. So everybody talks about getting customers to come into branches, and the question is we can't get customers to come into branches now. I don't think we're going to get them to come into the branch in the future. One interesting kind of dynamic that we observed is if the customer knows who they're going to see in the branch, who they're going to interact with, there's a higher tendency to come in. So, the idea was we can use the chat, right? We can use the online interaction with the customer to pull them into a physical experience. So, if the customer needs to have a more in-depth conversation. Maybe the retirement planning, 401k, 529 plan. Steve Gotz:                        13:30                     We can say, "All right. Maybe it makes sense just to sit down and have this conversation in the store, and we can get something scheduled." So, the human interaction becomes a really interesting way to pull people into the store for more engaged conversation. Amy Lombardo:                13:43                     I love the example you just gave me because it speaks so much to what we believe and strive to deliver to bankers, and retailers here at Diebold Nixodrf by delivering connected commerce. This idea that you have this seamless journey throughout various touchpoints that it doesn't have to seem like, "Oh, I'm only engaging in the branch. Oh I'm only engaging on my mobile phone." It's the same experience, and you're giving a perfect example of it right there. Steve Gotz:                        14:09                     Yeah, and I think the idea behind connected commerce is really powerful, right? It's the bank ... The bank almost becomes an orchestrator on the behalf of the consumer, right? The bank captures the intention, the bank understands what the consumer needs to do regardless of the channel, then it helps them do that, right? This is the core of what we saw a couple of years ago. This is what banking used to be. Now we have technology to deliver that experience in new and different ways at scale with efficiency. Amy Lombardo:                14:39                     Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay, so you just touched efficiency, and that was this one question I was writing down here. So, I've been looking in all these reports as to what are going to be these top pain points for bankers in 2019 and beyond, and what seems to be the top three of all those lists is around creating better operation efficiencies, back end transformation, etc., etc. Can any of your line of work? Do you see that holding true? Is that something that bankers are talking to you about as well? Are there some strategies in place that you can comment on to accomplish that, but still now lose that personalization aspect? Steve Gotz:                        15:13                     Yeah, yeah. So, I think there's ... A lot of people focus on kind of consumer facing, kind of innovations and efficiencies because that tends to be where a lot of the top line growth is. So, sometimes I think back offices operations doesn't get as much attention as it should, but I think there's an equally large if not more number of opportunities in the back office to do things better, faster, and cheaper while you maintain that front office customer experience. And I think ... Again, the idea of what we're talking about here, which is companies can create structures. Companies can create new types of environments to solve our problems. We can look for places where this happened, and I think one of those places would be with Liquid Labs, and the auto group in Germany. Steve Gotz:                        15:59                     So, the auto group is one of the world's largest retail conglomerates, they own a lot of properties. Six years ago they set up an organization called Liquid Labs, which is really designed to solve hard problems for the organization, and the model there was Liquid Labs would have a budget, they would go to a business unit and say, "Oh we see you're losing $150 million." And these numbers are hypothetical. "We see you're losing $100 million dollars a year on return shipments because we've had issues with the address. We can fix that problem for you, we can fix it in a discoverative way, and if we succeed you now have a new capability that improves your efficiencies." And in fact that's exactly what Liquid Labs did for the auto group, and they drove significant efficiency improvements just with the very strategic application of technology. Steve Gotz:                        16:47                     So, banks have those kinds of opportunities in spade. When we arrived at Umpqua, the number of operational efficiencies the word technology brought to bear was substantial. So, the question is what's the right portfolio, right? What's the right portfolio mix between kind of front facing, consumer applications, and back office? Let's make this engine as efficient as we can make it. Amy Lombardo:                17:12                     So, do you have a thought on that of what is that perfect balance? Is that the next project for people to turn to you on? Steve Gotz:                        17:19                     Well yeah. This is I think why kind of proclamations are dangerous. I think this is one of those places where I think it really depends on the organization, and the state of the organization. When we got to Umpqua, they have just been through a core transition, starting to think about other projects that need to get done. So, there were some strategy decisions and said, "You know what? We're going to really focus on that customer experience while we give the organization time to figure out what's going to be the internal digital transformation strategy." So, that was the right mix for Umpqua. I think you have other organizations that are fairly sophisticated on the front end where they could use focus on the back end efficiency. So, that's a long way of saying it depends. Amy Lombardo:                18:05                     Okay. Fair enough. All right. I'm going to throw this one out to you Steve. Steve Gotz:                        18:08                     Okay. Amy Lombardo:                18:08                     So, we talk a lot about this idea of retailing banking. It's not just banking, it's retail banking, and really these two industries converge together. Would you agree with that statement? Have any thought around is banking really retail banking? Steve Gotz:                        18:23                     Absolutely, absolutely. It's retail, and in my view the bank has a role in that, right? Today and into the future. The bank is an orchestrator of commerce, the bank is at the center of that experience. That's a powerful idea that I think is just coming to. Amy Lombardo:                18:38                     Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. In any of the work that you do, do you find executives challenged with branch closings, and just trying to find that optimal footprint here, and just some of those challenges that are keeping them up at night around branch locations, and branch size? Steve Gotz:                        18:54                     Yeah, so this is a perennial problem, right? And the problem of a branch is a catch 22. Everybody knows this. The branch density is very high in America. That's for a reason. You ask Americans kind of how they choose their bank. At least up until a year or two ago, branch location, branch convenience- Amy Lombardo:                19:12                     Okay. Yeah, exactly. Steve Gotz:                        19:14                     Was one of the top choices, right? Now what's interesting is it's often the top choice, but when you look at the stats about how often do people go to the branch, they tend not to go in. So, they say it's important, but they don't go into the branch. So, this is the catch 22. You start shutting down your branches, you start kind of reducing your branch density, you start losing those deposits because customers have a fixation with the branch. The way we thought about tackling this was, "Okay. They say they want it, but they don't really go in all the time. So, what do they really want?" And what they wanted was a lifeline. What they wanted was a safety net, a connection. Steve Gotz:                        19:54                     So, we're like, "Okay. If we can give them that same kind of feeling with a dedicated digital banker, maybe the physical doesn't matter as much. Maybe we can reduce the density of the branch network, move to a destination branch strategy, take all of that OPEX off the books while keeping the people, right? And the people are important because they're really key to creating this personalized experience of that digital channel. And if we can do that, we can start right sizing the branch network while deepening the relationship with the customer at the same time. Amy Lombardo:                20:24                     Right. Oh my gosh. I have the perfect example just in my home life. Several years ago, my husband and I, we were going through some sort of refinancing, and we had to have a check physically signed by this particular ... The institution that was through our loan. I'm looking online and I was like, "Okay, I live in Ohio, and the closest is in New Jersey." And there was no options other than take this check physically to New Jersey. Nowadays I'm like, "Well, now we have check box features, and video tellers that I could have made that work." But several years ago luckily we just ironically we have a family member that lived there, and we happen to be visiting, and we went out of our way to go to this bank branch. Amy Lombardo:                21:09                     But it was such a hassle, and just to think how technology has come and crossing those channels, that had been no problem today. But that seems like eons ago, yet it was maybe only like two, three years ago. Steve Gotz:                        21:25                     I mean we've trained consumers to kind of have this unnatural connection to the branch. Amy Lombardo:                21:31                     Right. Steve Gotz:                        21:32                     Actually, that's not entirely accurate because at a certain point it was natural. Before a lot of the digital technologies we have today, that branch network was really valuable. We're getting to this point now where it's not so valuable we can right-size it, but the burden is on the industry to weening customers off that expectation, to show customers that we can deliver you the exact same experience through our digital channel, and it doesn't matter if the branch that you normally go to around the corner isn't there anymore because you're not going into it that often anymore. Amy Lombardo:                22:02                     Right. But of course it's just finding that balance of how often do you still need that physical interaction to potential create that emotional connection versus, "I just need the quick, easy transaction here." Steve Gotz:                        22:14                     Yeah. So the idea behind Pivotus Engage, which was the platform that we've built as over time if a customer can chat with the same person over, and over again they're going to develop a relationship, right? A professional relationship, and they're going to start trusting this person. And this is important because bankers used to be trusted. Over the last decade though, that trust has waned. So we're like, "How do we get back to that?" It's the same person, same conversation, interacting with the customer over time, and at a certain point the customer is like, "Yes, I need help here. I need help there." Right? Steve Gotz:                        22:47                     You can almost see the switch flip in the relationship where the customer starts to trust the banker on the other side, and that's when magic can happen because when you're in that trust space relationship with the customer, you can then advise, you can then recommend, you can then orchestrate commerce, right? Which is what we're talking about. Amy Lombardo:                23:07                     Yeah. Steve Gotz:                        23:07                     Then you can be able to play with that relationship, and if you can get there, that's where I think exciting things happen in the industry. Amy Lombardo:                23:14                     Okay. So, Umpqua came up with this or you helped with this engagement platform, and really the idea in general around experience platforms. Of course, there's obviously the personalization aspect, but what also is necessary to enable them? Steve Gotz:                        23:32                     I think you'd be from the top down of the organization. So technology is easy, right? I mean building the underlying tools to create new experiences. That's easy. Our experience is most people that are working in the bank, they want to do more. They want to help their customers. The want to support them. I think the critical element is the will, the drive, and the impetus from the top of the organization. From the board and the CEO to say, "We're going to do this." Right? "We're going to make an investment in creating new experiences for our customers. We're going to make an investment in retrofitting our technology organization so that we can create these new experiences." Steve Gotz:                        24:11                     I think without that kind of top down commitment, you end up with what we were talking about at the beginning, which is innovation theater. Amy Lombardo:                24:19                     Yeah. Steve Gotz:                        24:19                     Because the kind of change we're talking about, it takes time, it takes commitment, it hurts sometimes, right? Because people have to change. That only happens if that commitment is there within the C-Suite. Amy Lombardo:                24:31                     Got it. So, and maybe that's a good closing point here, and just getting that buy-in from the highest level. Is there anything else maybe you'd want to share with our listeners here on ways to think about how they're transforming their business? Steve Gotz:                        24:48                      Yeah. So, I think what I would leave people with is there's this emerging zeitgeist in Silicon Valley, which is we're entering the age of the big company, right? We're entering the age where having a good idea isn't enough. To actualize that good idea you need data, you need distribution, you need customers, you have capital. All of those things live within the four walls of every company out there, every bank in America who has these things, and I think the opportunity is to find creative ways to leverage those assets in new and different ways, right? I think it's somewhat presumptuous to suggest that the banking industry is facing its Kodak moment because I don't think it is. Steve Gotz:                        25:28                     I think the banking industry has never been better positioned to control its own future, and that's what I'm excited about, and that's what your listeners should be excited about. Amy Lombardo:                25:36                     Very good. Well Steve, this was an awesome conversation. I got a lot out of it, I hope our listeners do as well, and thank you of course for taking the time to be with us, and to our listeners for tuning into this episode of COMMERCE NOW. To learn more about this topic, log onto www.dieboldnixdorf.com. Until next time, keep checking back on iTunes or your podcast listening channel for new topics on COMMERCE NOW.  

So Steve's girlfriend had an issue with something that happened over Christmas which led to an interesting conversation.  Also, there is a movement of white people trying to come to grips with their racism/biases in a safe environment devoid of diversity.  Is this good or bad. 

Share this. This is Steve Paikin interviewing guests on his broadcast "The Agenda with Steve Paikin" on TVOntario. He is formerly a host and reporter for the CBC specializing in foreign affairs and politics. So Steve... Whats the agenda? This becomes repetitive but its very obvious that everyone agrees with the agenda. The problem seems to be that we are just not doing globalism well enough. Faster. Harder. More welfare. More taxes. More gender confusion. No dissent. This episode may not be the most interesting to listen through but its an informative piece to show how even apparently dissenting opinions on the "sustainable development" agenda actually agree in the larger framework. It may be valuable to revisit the ideals of communism with respect to the issued discussed in this episode. We will tackle this in future episodes. Thanks for listening. Spread the word. Heres the source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wVAY7aSTXU&t=501s God Bless.

Plenty of folk talk the talk when it comes to business advice and motivation. Advisors, consultants or people in high-faluting business roles may be free with their opinions but some have never actually grown an enterprise of any sort.But from teenage entrepreneur to the youngest ever President of the Sheffield Chamber of Commerce, Steve Manley has certainly “walked the walk.”And in his interview on my radio show this week he told a lovely story of walking miles to work in the snow – which turned out to be a formative moment in his career.A door-knocking experience through Young Enterprise while at college showed Steve how much the world of business – and selling products – excited him. He got a job with an office supplies business and was rapidly promoted, turning around performance. All went well until the business was bought by a giant corporate and Steve realised their values weren’t aligned with his own.So Steve – who’d always had a desire to work for himself – and colleague, friend and now business partner Mark set up their own business – initially from the back bedroom of his parental home in 2002 – and grew it, Universal Office Products to a highly successful, multi-million turnover firm.Absolutely passionate about increasing the diversity within the Sheffield Chamber further, and about supporting and encouraging young people, Steve has concrete, specific plans about how, as Sheffield Chamber of Commerce’s new President, he will do this.It was a great pleasure to interview Steve and I think you’ll enjoy the podcast. Oh, and if you’ve every wondered whether to join a Chamber of Commerce: Steve has good reasons why you should.Also on the show, and also a great pleasure to interview: Andrzej Kurpiel. Andrzej is behind Bee Blest, a newly launched social enterprise which “works with honey bees to help lift people out of poverty.”Sales of Andrzej’s popular honey have already supported:a community enterprise project in Rwanda and the developmentand maintenance of beekeeping and allied projects in Sheffield, where disadvantaged and marginalised people are helped both to survive and also given a chance to thrive through working outdoors, making friends and developing new skills.

This week rolands been sent to Portugal to think about what he has done, So Steve is joibned by Eeee-byyyy-gum Gary to taste lovely beer 

So Steve joined the show, It was pretty bad. Brings out the worst in everyone. We discuss the wall, kneeling, rape, murder, times up, me too, and of course, Gritty.

Dr Carolyn Lam:                Welcome to Circulation on the Run, your weekly podcast summary and backstage pass to the journal and its editors. I'm Dr Carolyn Lam, associate editor for the National Heart Center, and Duke National University of Singapore.                                                 How do resuscitation teams at top-performing hospitals for in-hospital cardiac arrest actually succeed? Well, to learn how, you have to keep listening to the podcast, because we will be discussing this right after these summaries.                                                 The first original paper this week tells us that recent developments in RNA amplification strategies may provide a unique opportunity to use small amounts of input RNA for genome wide-sequencing of single cells. Co-first authors, Dr Gladka and Molenaar, corresponding author, Dr van Rooij, and colleagues from Hubrecht Institute in Utrecht, the Netherlands, present a method to obtain high-quality RNA from digested cardiac tissue, from adult mice, for automated single-cell sequencing of both healthy and diseased hearts.                                                 Based on differential gene expression, the authors were also able to identify multiple subpopulations within a certain cell type. Furthermore, applying single-cell sequencing on both the healthy and injured heart indicated the presence of disease-specific cells subpopulations.                                                 For example, they identified cytoskeleton-associated protein 4 as a novel marker for activated fibroblasts that positively correlated with known myofibroblast markers, in both mouse and human cardiac tissue. This paper raises the exciting possibility for new biology discovery using single-cell sequencing that can ultimately lead to the development of novel therapeutic strategies.                                                 Myeloid-derived suppressor cells are a heterogeneous population of cells that expand in cancer, inflammation, and infection, and negatively regulate inflammation. However, their role in heart failure was unclear, at least until today's paper in this week's journal. Co-first authors Dr Zhou, Miao, and Yin, and co-corresponding authors, Dr Wang and Li, from Huazhong University of Science and Technology, measured the myeloid-derived suppressor cells by flow cytometry in heart failure patients and in mice with pressure overload–induced heart failure, using isoproterenol infusion or transverse aortic constriction.                                                 They found that the proportion of myeloid-derived suppressor cells was linked to heart failure severity. Cardiac hypertrophy, dysfunction, and inflammation were exacerbated by depletion of myeloid-derived suppressor cells but alleviated by cell transfer. Monocytic myeloid-derived suppressor cells exerted an antihypertrophic effect on cardiomyocyte nitric oxide, but monocytic and granulocytic myeloid-derived suppressor cells displayed antihypertrophic and anti-inflammatory properties through interleukin 10.                                                 Rapamycin increased accumulation of myeloid-derived suppressor cells by suppressing their differentiation, which in part mediated its cardioprotective mechanisms. Thus, these findings revealed a cardioprotective role from myeloid-derived suppressor cells in heart failure by their antihypertrophic effects on cardiomyocytes and anti-inflammatory effects through interleukin 10 and nitric oxide. Pharmacological targeting of myeloid-derived suppressor cells by rapamycin constitutes a promising therapeutic strategy for heart failure.                                                 In the FOURIER trial, the PCSK9 inhibitor evolocumab reduced LDL cholesterol and cardiovascular risk in patients with stable atherosclerotic disease. However, was the efficacy of evolocumab modified by baseline inflammatory risk?                                                 While Dr Bohula from the TIMI Study Group and colleagues explored this question by examining the efficacy of evolocumab stratified by baseline high sensitivity CRP. They also assessed the importance of inflammatory and residual cholesterol risk across the range of on-treatment LDL concentrations. They found that the relative benefit of evolocumab for the prevention of adverse cardiovascular events was consistent, irrespective of baseline high sensitivity CRP. However, because patients with higher high sensitivity CRP levels had higher rates of adverse cardiovascular events, they also tended to experience greater absolute benefit with evolocumab.                                                 In an analysis of baseline high sensitivity CRP in achieved LDL cholesterol, the authors found that at first cardiovascular event rates were independently associated with both LDL cholesterol and high sensitive CRP. Event rates were lowest in patients with the lowest hsCRP and LDL cholesterol, supporting the relevance of both inflammatory and residual cholesterol risk.                                                 The next paper provides further evidence that residual inflammatory risk, as measured by on-treatment high sensitivity CRP, remains an important clinical issue in patients on combination statin and PCSK9 inhibitor therapy. Dr Pradhan, from Brigham and Women's Hospital and colleagues, evaluated the residual inflammatory risk among patients participating in the SPIRE-1 and -2 cardiovascular outcome trials, who are receiving both statin therapy and the PCSK9 inhibitor bococizumab, according to on-treatment levels of high sensitivity CRP and LDL cholesterol measured 14 weeks after drug initiation.                                                 They found that among high-risk stable outpatients treated with moderate or high-intensity statins and PCSK9 inhibition, roughly one in two had residual inflammatory risk defined by an on-treatment high sensitivity CRP level of 2 or more mg per liters, and roughly one in three had values above 3 mg per liter.                                                 PCSK9 inhibition was associated with a 60% mean reduction in LDL cholesterol but little change in high sensitivity CRP. Levels of high sensitivity CRP above 3 mg per liter were associated with a 60% greater risk of future cardiovascular events, corresponding to a 3.6% annual event rate, even after accounting for on-treatment LDL cholesterol.                                                 Thus, PCSK9 inhibition, added to statin therapy in stable outpatients, does not lower high sensitivity CRP. Persistent elevations of CRP is associated with future cardiovascular risk in these patients, even after low levels of LDL cholesterol are achieved. If corroborated, these data suggests that inflammation modulation may yet have a role in the primary and secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease when LDL cholesterol is already controlled. Well, that wraps it up for our summaries. Now, for our future discussion.                                                 In-hospital cardiac arrests are common worldwide and they're so important because they represent opportunities for us to improve survival. Now, yet, overall rates of hospital survival after in-hospital cardiac arrests remain poor and there is substantial variation across facilities. This may be surprising because we all seem to follow or should follow the same ACLS algorithms across the world and yet, there are different outcomes.                                                 How do resuscitation teams, at top performing hospitals, for in-hospital cardiac arrest, how do they succeed? Pleased to be discussing this with a real star team in today's podcast. We have first and corresponding author of our feature paper, Dr Brahmajee Nallamothu. We also have Dr Steven Kronick, who is the chair of the CPR committee and both are from University of Michigan Medical School. We also have Dr Sana Al-Khatib, who is a senior associate editor of Circ, from Duke University. So, welcome everyone! Let’s go straight into it. Maybe starting with you Brahmajee, could you tell us what inspired you to perform this study? Dr Brahmajee Nallamothu            Thank you, Carolyn, for giving us the opportunity to talk about this study. I'm an interventional cardiologist here at the University of Michigan and typically, this isn't an area that interventional cardiologists are really greatly involved with. I became interested because I also, at times, I round in the cardiac intensive care unit, and that's a place where a lot of patients often times end up after they've had an in-hospital cardiac arrest at our institution and what I've noticed over the years, is the variability in care that would be occurring out there, and then also lots of gaps in the literature.                                                 Over a decade or so ago, I started partnering with a close friend and colleague, Paul Chan, from the Mid America Heart Institute and we started to do a series of studies on how in-hospital cardiac arrest care varies across institutions in the United States and we published a number of articles that have been in really high-profile journals over the last 10 years, but the problem has always been that even though we could describe really well what was happening, we had very little understanding of why it was happening or how certain hospitals were seeming to outperform others in this really challenging situation.                                                 We wanted to dive a bit deeper into the questions and reasons behind top performers doing so well and that's what brought us on to doing this study. Dr Carolyn Lam:                Great. You want to tell us a little bit about it? It's really very different from the other CPR studies I've seen. Could you tell us about it and what you've found? Dr Brahmajee Nallamothu:          Sure, so in the broader framework, it's a qualitative study and what I mean by qualitative is, we didn't really collect data either through surveys or through outcome assessments. What we did was, we actually went out and talked to people.                                                 The study though was really focused on what people call a mixed methods approach. We didn't just randomly talk to different hospitals, we actually focused on hospitals that were at the top-performing levels. We also focused on some hospitals that were non-top-performing as well, to get some contrast between the two and when I said we talked, we did this in a very systematic and pretty rigid way.                                                 We always had four interviewers go out to nine hospitals. We split them up, so we had two content experts and then two methodologic experts in qualitive studies, and we started to interview a bunch of people. In fact, we interviewed almost 160 people across these nine hospitals.                                                 We interviewed everyone from CEOs and hospital leadership, down to boots on the ground, including both clinical providers and even non-clinical providers, such as spiritual care, security. We tried to get this comprehensive view of what was actually happening during an in-hospital cardiac arrest across these nine hospitals, and really the results were quite fascinating to us.                                                 For someone, like myself, that's been in this space for ten years, I tell people I learn more talking to these nine hospitals than I have in the last ten years of looking at numbers on a spreadsheet. I really started to understand, for the first time, what was really going on, how these hospitals were dealing with these challenging situations because there's no bigger emergency in a hospital, and Steve, who we're going to hear from, we talk about this, but Steve has a great line about how when an in-hospital cardiac arrest occurs, that patient automatically becomes the sickest person in an institution and yet, we haven't set up systems that really build on how to handle that in the most consistent and positive way. Dr Carolyn Lam:                Oh, my goodness, I just love that line! Now, you have to tell us, so what's the secret? What's the secret of the succeeding hospitals? Dr Brahmajee Nallamothu:          What we found in general was, that resuscitation teams at top-performing hospitals really demonstrated the following features. They had dedicated or designated resuscitation teams. They really included the participation of diverse disciplines as team members during the in-hospital cardiac arrest. There were really clear roles and responsibilities of the team members that were set up right from the front.                                                 There was better communication and leadership, actually, during these events and finally, in the training aspect, one of the unique things we found was, the top-performing hospitals seem to have a high rate of in-depth mock codes, that they used as strategies for getting their clinicians ready for these events. Dr Carolyn Lam:                As you were speaking I was just thinking through the experiences of in-hospital cardiac arrests that I've encountered, and you're right. These elements, though we don't talk about them much, make a huge difference. Steve, I am so curious about your outlook. I mean you must have attended a kajillion CPRs as chair of the CPR committee. Tell us, what do you think is the take home message for clinicians and hospitals? Dr Steven Kronick:           My field is in emergency medicine and as chair of the CPR committee, I have responsibility of overseeing how we respond to cardiac arrests in our hospitals. I think that many institutions spend a lot of time and effort looking at in-hospital cardiac arrests are managed, and how to improve on it. We're able to use data to help compare ourselves to similar institutions, but beyond the bottom line of either ROSC or survival to discharge, we've most relied on process measures to figure out what we're doing.                                                 We're essentially flying blind, or at least not flying in any sort of formation when we do that. I think that this study validates some of the operational aspects of the arrest response, for those centers who use those and can help other decide where they want to direct their efforts. I think a good example that Brahmajee brought up, is this distinction we found between the use of dedicated teams, designated teams, or not having any organized team, and the impact that has on survival.                                                 The use of these teams can mean significant use of resources but showing that it's associated with better outcomes help provide support for that concept and for those centers who might already use one of those models, it helps them to steer their efforts to improving the delivery or the efficiency of that model. Dr Carolyn Lam:                Yeah, and indeed. Congratulations to both of you, Steve and Brahmajee. I do think that these are novel contemporary data, at least the first that I know of. Sana, you handle the paper and recognize this. Could you tell us a little about what you think are the novel and important aspects? Dr Sana Al-Khatib:            I really have been a fan of this paper from the get go and yes, it doesn't have the quantitative analysis that the statistical modeling, most of us are used to. It is a qualitative study, but I think that gives it strength. It makes it unique. This type of research, it can really only be effectively done through a qualitative study that really has all the important aspects of a good qualitative study, so I do want to congratulate them. Clearly, a lot of work went into this, and I appreciate all their efforts.                                                 In terms of the main findings, some of us might look at this data and say, well it's not surprising that those are the characteristics, or the features, of the top performing hospitals, but I felt like it was great, in terms of how the data were presented. Encouraging hospitals to adopt this. Giving them almost like a checklist of what they need to be doing to improve the outcomes of their in-hospital cardiac arrests, in terms of ensuring that they have designated resuscitation teams.                                                 The whole idea about diversity of participants in these arrests, and making sure everyone has a clear role and responsibility. The whole idea of making sure that somebody takes leadership and you have clear and very good communication among the different people who are doing this and great training. In fact, these people were doing in-depth mock codes. I think that spells it out very nicely and gives a lot of the hospitals, hopefully, action items that they can implement to improve the outcomes these patients. I love this paper. Dr Carolyn Lam:                Sana, I love the way you put that. Checklist, and you know what I was thinking as Brahmajee and Steve were talking earlier? I was thinking blueprint, almost, of the things that we should have. So Steve, could I ask your thoughts. I mean, are you going to put some of these things into practice in your own committee and how? Dr Steven Kronick:           There are a variety of things we can do. Some of these things are a pretty high-functioning place, but still looking at recommendations that have been laid out and how we help modify those things. Though the example is the roles that people play at an arrest. We can certainly improve on assigning those roles, how people work together as a team, and then also, getting to work more as a team, so that when they are called upon to perform those duties, they can do it in a more coordinated way. Dr Carolyn Lam:                How beautifully put. I'm going to steal a couple of minutes at the end of this podcast. I really have to because it's so rare to have Brahmajee on the line today and he's the Editor-in-Chief of Circ: Cardiovascular Quality and Outcomes. Brahmajee, could I ask you to say a few words to our worldwide audience about your journal? Dr Brahmajee Nallamothu:          We are a kind of daughter journal to Circulation. We are a bit more unique than the others, in the sense that we aren't disease or subspecialty focused. We deal with, broadly, the issues around outcomes research, health services research, quality of care research, and really health policy. We publish an issue once a month. We have a broad interest in things that are really relevant to the community around outcomes research and health services research.                                                 I will say that I really appreciate this because of the worldwide audience and reach, one of the big issues we've been very interested in is expanding our reach, from the United States to other parts of the world, and in fact, last fall, we had a global health issue, which was well received, and we received papers from across the world.                                                 In fact, every paper in that issue was a non-US-based paper, and it touched on a number of things from issues around healthcare utilization in Asia to demographics and disease registries in Africa, and it was a wonderful experience, so I think it's a journal that we're excited about.                                                 It was first launched by Harlan Krumholz, who has set a high bar and standard for us, and I think that my editorial team, which has been fantastic, has continued with that work. We would love to see papers from your readers and your listeners from across the world and excited about what that journal is going to be doing in the next five years. Dr Carolyn Lam:                Oh wow! That's so cool! Well listeners, you heard it right here, first time on Circulation on the Run. Thank you so much for joining us today. Don't forget to tune in again next week.  

There has been quite a bit of chatter in the channel lately about this new "Citizen Developer" role that Microsoft is attempting to better support. Not surprisingly, many "real" developers have been none to pleased with the idea. I thought I would try and unpack this sticky-wicket a little bit. New Term for Existing Crowd I'm not sure if Microsoft coined the term "Citizen Developer" or not, but they did recently start using it... a lot. It is primarily used to describe a person at a customer organization who has some level of technology skill, or at least comfort. It could also be used for Partners, who typically have technology skills, but might not actually be developers. These people are not new, they have been around forever, we just have a new term to describe these "citizens". Developers When you think of the term "Developer", you probably imagine some person in a darkened room, typing at lightning speed, what appears to be gibberish on the screen. That is probably mostly true. These would be the people who write code, and can actually read it. Everything that is delivered to you by Microsoft is based on code written by developers. Coding is a high specialized skill, not something you are going to pick up over a weekend from a "For Dummies" book. Developers for Dynamics 365 are typically associated with a Dynamics 365 Partner. So I personally do not think "Developer" is the right term to use for this role, it probably should be "Citizen Configurator". Configurator Even though my auto-correct is telling me that "configurator" is not a word, I am still going to use it, as it is a good description. Configuration generally refers to things that can be done, including vast customization, without needing to actually write any code. You will be hearing terms like "No-Code" or "Codeless" a lot going forward, meaning that you can customize business applications to your needs, within the applications and the options and processes that are available, without requiring the services of a Professional Developer. This is 100% true, but it's not the whole story. Before I get into the rest of the story, why is this "No-Code" even a hot thing? Dam Busting In the not-to-distant "pre-Cloud" past, with Dynamics Business Solutions, if you wanted to do anything different than the way the application was delivered, you had little choice but to engage a Developer. Simple actions on a form often required someone to write Javascript, and it only got more complex from there. Of course before you fully realized this, you would have already purchased your hardware and licenses, so development... was just another expense that you were now committed to. Whatever you ultimately paid, and kept paying, to a developer, did not impact Microsoft one way or the other. Microsoft already got paid for the software, and they did not make any money on the relationship you had with the developer, that was just between you two. However, all of that changed with the Cloud. Microsoft no longer gets paid upfront, they now get paid monthly. Combined with the elimination of your server expenses, your commitment level to using the products is significantly reduced. Instead of having to generate a ROI on the huge upfront investment you made, if things don't feel right for any reason, you can cancel, and are only out a couple of bucks. This new cloud "Dynamic" changed everything... for Microsoft... Partners... and their Customers. Customers are no longer "stuck", in fact, it is the opposite, cloud has empowered customers. But customer empowerment arrived with some unintended consequences. If they discover a high development cost will be involved, they can, and many did, just pull the plug. So, while not entirely eliminating the need for Developers, Microsoft had no choice but to at least attempt to minimize it. Some customers were leaving, and others were not starting, as a direct result of high development costs proposed by partners. Again, costs that did not accrue to Microsoft in any way, but instead got in Microsoft's way. I can't blame Microsoft, I would do the exact same thing. You can't have the channel you depend on to sell your products, be the very reason customers won't buy them. From Balmer screaming "Developers, Developers, Developers", there is now a growing "cold war" between Microsoft and Developers, at least in the Business solutions space. The winner is going to be the customers, and these "Citizen DevelopersConfigurators". Specific Efforts The no-code mindset has swept through Microsoft, and nowhere is it more evident than in the Business Solutions business. Things like App-Designer and the Business Process Designer that sit within the apps, as well as things like Flow and PowerApps that are connected to the applications. The entire Dynamics 365 for Marketing Application, for example, is code-less. Microsoft is attacking every aspect of their business solution applications that typically generate a need for, and cost of, Developers. The only people this is bad news for, are developers, who made a living doing many things that Citizen Configurator can now do. And Microsoft is not finished, they are just revving up this no-code revolution. A Jet gets a Steering Wheel Before we get too carried away with the possibilities... imagining that Dale, who is a whiz with a smart-phone, will suddenly be able to "Digitally Transform" your business on his own, there are a few other pieces to consider. Like... who will be the "Citizen Architect"? Even Developers are typically executing on a plan engineered by someone else; usually an "Architect". Similar to the Architect/Builder relationship in a construction project. While a Builder might construct the staircase, it was an Architect who determined where it will take you. In fact, the most critical key to success with Business Solutions is not being able to build your own Business Process... it is understanding what that Process should be. Microsoft is still quite a ways from everything being push-buttons and check-boxes. But what we are already discovering, are "Citizen Configurators" using what they are able to use, to build overly-complex solutions to problems that could have been simply solved by other means. For some, Flow is the new hammer, and every issue is a nail. I have seen more and more Dales lately; they're building endless loops, dead-ends and forks to nowhere, using "logic-less" logic. Help or Hurt? In this post, I may seem to have gone back and forth on the "Citizen Configurator" role. In truth, it will depend on how a customer uses it. If a customer is of the opinion that these new capabilities will allow them to successfully deploy business solutions without any outside help, they will be in for a surprise. In a worst-case scenario, a customer with no budget, heads down the "Citizen" path, makes a huge mess, and has no funds to fix it. This is not theoretical, it happens all the time. In a best-case scenario, a customer heads down the "Citizen" path, and builds a usable system, that is missing 90% of the available power. "So Steve, you're saying you don't like the Citizen role?" Actually, I am a huge fan. We've Seen This Before Back in the old days, if you wanted a website, you hired a web developer. They would build you a lovely website. Then you moved... and the only person who could change your address on the website was the developer. This "Nickel and Diming" infuriated many. Then along came Content Management Systems (CMS). Now you could easily change your address yourself. But this did not make you a web developer. We have all seen websites out there built by DIYers. Bringing this back to Business Solutions and Dynamics 365, if you truly want to succeed, you will need a team. On this team should be a Dynamics Partner who can not only "Architect" a solution to actually solve your needs, but can bring in development expertise where it is the best option. "What about Dale?" Dale is absolutely a key member of this team. Thanks to Microsoft, some of the things that only your partner could help you with in the past, Dale can now do as part of the team. Will this dramatically reduce the cost of Deployment? Over time, as Microsoft makes more tools available for the Dales, deployment costs will come down. You will always need an Architect in order to get maximum value out of the vast palette of Dynamics 365. But today, Dale should at least be able to limit the nickels and dimes.  

If "irregardless" isn't a real word, then why the hell is it in my dictionary?!? It's a matter of philosophy. Steve and Kory give a primer on descriptivism and prescriptivism, two approaches to describing language, and how modern dictionaries are descriptivist (which is exactly the opposite of what everyone believes). They recap the culture wars of the 1960s, which gave rise to the American Heritage Dictionary; discuss the AHD Usage Panel and what it does; lament the state of modern dictionary marketing; and gab extensively about where people can get themselves some of that sweet, sweet prescriptivism they long for.  BONUS FEATURES:- Kory and Steve offer to stage-fight at your conference; - Steve introduces you to the best dictionary marketing video known to humanity (and YOU ARE MOST WELCOME); - Steve amazes Kory w/r/t Romanian; - Stamper Mispronunciation Rundown: "biases" TRANSCRIPT BELOW: ----more---- Kory:                     Hi, I'm Kory Stamper Steve:                   and I'm Steve Kleinedler. Kory:                     and welcome to Fiat Lex, Steve:                   a podcast about dictionaries by people who write them. Kory:                     That would be us. So last episode, we talked a little bit about how words get into dictionaries and how dictionaries are written, but we wanted to sort of backtrack and give you an underlying philosophical basis for how modern dictionaries are written. Steve:                   Right. And one of those perceptions that are held by the public who pay attention to the brand of dictionary, which we-- admittedly is a small subset of people who actually use reference works. Is this distinction, this dichotomy that doesn't really exist between, for example, the American Heritage Dictionary and Merriam-Webster's. Kory:                     Mm-hmm. So lots of people assume that we are mortal enemies. That American Heritage and Merriam Webster, we are competitors. We have always been set up mostly by our marketing departments and other people as direct competitors. But, in fact, we are not really direct competitors of each other. That's just been something that has been sort of formulated because of this philosophical difference that we're going to talk about. Steve:                   And also, the editors at the different companies -- we're all colleagues, most of us belong to the same learned societies such as the Dictionary Society of North America, where we meet together with much conviviality -- we're friends, Kory's my friend. Kory:                     And Steve is my friend. Steve:                   And even though we keep threatening to attend conferences and stage fake duels, with the weaponry that Kory has assembled, we have not yet done this. We may do it someday. Kory:                     Let us know. Let us know if you want us to come to your conferences, stage a fight Steve:                   We'll stage a fight or we'll just do a normal q and a section. And with this, this, this, this frame of reference that there is somehow this distinction is borne out of a concept of prescriptivism versus descriptivism. Kory:                     Right? So let's just define terms very loosely. Prescriptivism and descriptivism are these two approaches to language that are common in modern linguistics. Steve:                   A prescriptive approach is one that claims there is a right and wrong. There are rules that prescribe how one should use English or any language properly. Kory:                     Right. And descriptivism is the idea that all languages, all varieties of a language are an equal footing, and it's really, you're just describing usage, not passing judgment on usage. So, so if you, if you say ain't and that's native to your dialect, then that's a matter of context and not a matter of right and wrong. Steve:                   And truthfully, this is how most modern dictionaries in the United States are in fact produced. They're very descriptive. However, due to incidents that happened in the 1960s, in the public consciousness, there's this idea that the American Heritage Dictionary is this prescriptive dictionary and Merriam Webster is descriptive. There's this -- this argument raises its head from time to time.The New Yorker about five or six years ago, had this string of essays, followed by letters to the editor about this dichotomy that it's -- it seemed to be that the journalists were still thinking that this is the case. There's a really good article by Steven Pinker called the activist tours that you can find in the New Yorker that describes that kerfuffle in some detail. But! The original kerfuffle, how this all got steeped in the consciousness, goes back to 1961. Kory:                     1961. At that point, Merriam Webster, which was one of the main dictionary companies in America, released its Third New International Unabridged Dictionary. Now, this was a dictionary that had been eagerly awaited by the public. It was 12 years in the making, over a hundred editors, over 200 outside consultants helped with it, and people assumed it was going to be in the style of all of the 19th century dictionaries we wrote where we had sort of given this idea that the dictionary is the sum of all human knowledge, and therefore is sort of this intellectual tool. 1961 comes around, and the book is released. Now the book was informed by modern linguistic thinking, and so it took more descriptivist stances on things than most people thought it should. For instance, instead of saying that something was uneducated or illiterate, we would say it's substandard or nonstandard. Those are linguistic terms, but the general public knows that linguistic terms don't really matter in the real world. So when the book was released, it was kind of roundly panned by the general press as being way too anything goes, way too, you know, just throwing aside its role as the guardian of the language-- Steve:                   Often revolving around one word in particular-- Kory:                     That would be the word ain't. Steve:                   Ain't. Steve:                   Oy. So in fact, there is a great book about this controversy that is called The Story of Ain't by David Skinner -- it's a great book if you want to know more about this. It gets into a lot of the culture wars that were going on at the time too, which I think is frankly more interesting than dictionary history, but it all ties together. So, 1961, The third comes out. It has panned in the general press and then, Steve:                   and then in these pre internet days, publishing companies could make a lot of money off dictionaries and as such, the fact that Merriam Webster was being excoriated in the press for its inclusion of ain't and other, kind of these liberal approaches, other editors thought, hey, we can write a dictionary that is in response to this and take a more prescriptive approach. One editor at American Heritage named -- affiliated with American Heritage -- named James Parton, came up with a plan to create a competing dictionary, that would be in response to Merriam Webster, and it is in the early sixties when he is going forth with this plan that, this, this, this concept of prescriptive versus descriptive approaches was really embedded in the consciousness of people who are paying attention. The interesting thing though, is as the dictionary -- as the American Heritage Dictionary was compiled in the sixties, the editors who were working on it, and even members of the Usage Panel who were brought into service to give their opinion on style issues, came -- well, they didn't come to the conclusion most of them had this conclusion -- is, well, no, a dictionary in fact, does to a large degree describe how words are being used. And in, in the earlier podcast we talked about corpus -- corpora material, that, that the editors were using to make definitions, craft definitions, the, the evidence is there in print as to, well, this word is used this way, this word is used this way. It's our duty to report that. So even though the genesis of the American Heritage Dictionary was thought of to be this prescriptive approach, it ended up being fairly descriptive almost as much as Merriam Webster Kory:                     It was. And you know, Steve and I -- we have a party trick that we like to do when we speak together. And that is we put together a slide with the American Heritage Definition of irregardless, and the Merriam Webster definition of irregardless, side by side, and you will see that they treat the word almost identically. Steve:                   The note covers the same amount of material. And you can find a lot of information about the word irregardless in Kory's book Word By Word, The Secret Life of Dictionaries. She has a whole chapter devoted to irregardless. Steve:                   Thank you for that plug, Steve. Steve:                   Well, you're welcome. On one hand, dictionaries do serve the purpose of pointing out style issues so that, for example, even though people might think inflammable means not flammable, it actually means flammable, which is an important thing if you were the manufacturer of cushions or children's pajamas, you don't want that mistake coming up because in this, you know, it can be fatal. So there are certain style issues where there -- all dictionaries will point out, use this word, not this word, but then nowadays you know, something like whether or not to split infinitive or use a singular they. And we will get into these in later podcasts in greater detail, what dictionary say nowadays might surprise you. Kory:                     So I want to talk a little bit about the Usage Panel that Steve mentioned about the American Heritage Dictionary. So that was the American Heritage Dictionary's big hook was Parton, who Steve had mentioned earlier, Parton originally actually wanted to buy Merriam Webster and his plan was to pulp the Third and reprint the Second which was released in 1934, and just move straight onto the Fourth, and the Fourth was not going to be this sort of hippie Commie, pinko, anything goes dictionary. It was going to be a right proper dictionary, and he couldn't buy out the company. So he started his own dictionary and the Usage Panel was the hook. This was a group of editors, writers, journalists, linguists -- Steve:                   -- linguists, poets. In later days we added crossword puzzle makers, basically people who made their living off using language in, in, in some fashion. I mean we all use language but as you know, as part of, as part of their life's work. Kory:                     And this usage panel is queried pretty regularly to -- basically American Heritage will send them questionnaires and say, how would you use, or is this particular example of decimate, let's say, correct or incorrect, or in what context would you consider this incorrect? Steve:                   And these ballots are tabulated and these percentages where relevant, find their way into Usage Notes at various words throughout the dictionary. I'm sure there's a note at various, which I probably just used incorrectly, but check out the Note and see. So, if you go to a word that you think has a styler usage issue, if you go to ahdictionary.com, look up that word, you'll probably see a Usage Note, you know, and you might see the Usage Panels' responses, and with some words like impact or contact where we have looked at these repeatedly over the years, you can see what the percentages were like in the sixties versus, you know, three years ago, if it was, you know, depending on whenever the last time it was balloted. And through this you can see how perceptions about languages change. If I could give a brief anecdote. Steve:                   Yeah, absolutely. Steve:                   So for example, tracking whether you pronounced the word HAIR-US or huh-RASS, 20, 30 years ago, the predominant form was HAIR-US. Steve:                   Huh! Steve:                   And then in the late nineties it was very split. And then the last time that we balloted it, huh-RASS was by far the preferred term. And you can see-- Kory:                     It was split as late as the late nineties? Steve:                   Yes. Steve:                   Well, I'm a hick, so I grew up saying huh-RASS-- Steve:                   Well, I'm a hick too. I was -- there will be a podcast where Kory and I talk about our variety of English we used growing up-- Kory:                     [laughter] About how they let hicks write dictionaries, too. So one of the interesting things though, I thought this was fascinating about the Usage Panel, is most people, and it was actually kind of advertised this way early on, most assumed that the Usage Panel's advice changed how the word was actually defined in the dictionary. And -- Steve:                   And that is so not the case. Steve:                   [[laughter] Steve:                   Uh, the Usage Panel had very little to not at all effect on the definition. Usually the definition within the Usage Note comes from the definition -- the Usage Note will repeat that definition and then talk about what the Usage Panel thinks about it. Sometimes the Panel results, when there's change over time, might cause the editors to look how a word is being defined and cause the editors to consider revising it or revising it, but that is one piece of the evidence and the definition isn't being rewritten on the basis of a judgment from the Panel alone. Also, the Panel is not deciding what words go in, what words are taken out. They are basically, there's maybe 400 words or so, 500 words, where they have weighed in on over the course of the past 50 years, and that information is included in the Notes, but this Panel is not responsible for the editorial decisions that are made. Kory:                     And I as a lexicographer did not actually realize that until I started learning more about the history of the American Heritage Dictionary. Because the perception is that Usage Panel is there to be prescriptive and that makes the dictionary itself prescriptive. Which my mind, I thought, well, that means that every part of that dictionary from, you know, the front matter to the back matter must be prescriptive. And in fact, it's not. The way that we define at Merriam Webster and the way that they define it American Heritage is pretty -- I mean, it's almost identical. We were all trained by the same people, Steve:                   Right? And, or the people who trained us, were trained. I mean there's this very small tradition, and we're not the only dictionary company that has these types of -- I mean we're the only one that calls them a Usage Panel, but the New Oxford American dictionary back when it was called that had an advisory panel that they got this type of information from. So we're certainly not the only dictionary to do it either. And by the same token, Oxford editors, were defining and they weren't being dictated how to define definitions based on what NOAD's advisory panel said. Kory:                     Right? So, so long story short, American Heritage / Merriam Webster actually very similar in spite of all of the marketing that would tell you otherwise. Steve:                   Speaking of marketing-- Steve:                   Oh, you're going to talk about one of my favorite things. Steve:                   So, about eight or nine years ago, when we were moving floors between the building that we were in, someone in marketing uncovered this footage from an ad campaign that was undertaken in the early seventies at the American Heritage Dictionary. It's like a 15 minute clip and it's done in the style of Laugh-In [[Kory laughs]], marketing the dictionary. It's ridiculous. Oh, there's a link on Youtube which we'll include it on our podcast twitter page. We encourage you to check it out because it is a lot of fun. And I think part of the reason it was made was to in part combat this image that the dictionary was stodgy and you know, finger wagging. It's a lot of lighthearted, ridiculous fun, and it's very seventies. Kory:                     It is so 70. So Steve and I will, when we're working, we usually have a chat window open and every once in a while we just send each other random links and usually it's to like eighties new wave or drag parodies of eighties new wave-- Steve:                   --or pharmaceutical ads. Steve:                   Oh, gosh, lots of those. Steve:                   One of the things I do for the American Heritage Dictionary is the pronunciations, and one way to find out how, various generic names of drugs are pronounced is by going to the pharmaceutical company's website and seeing their, their promos about them, but they're ridiculous. So we'll share these links back and forth. Kory:                     But so Steve, you know, chat window is open and I'm working and I get a random link from Steve and I look at it and then I get a text from him that says, did you get that link? You have to watch the link. And I watched the link and I, I watched it twice, all the way through and I was shrieking through it, which caused great -- my dog came running in and wanted to know what was wrong. It is phenomenal. So if you do nothing else but watch that video after this podcast, then Steve and I can both die happy people. So, okay, so if that's how dictionaries are written and everyone assumes that dictionaries are prescriptive, then the question is why don't dictionary companies give the people what they want and write a prescriptive dictionary? Steve:                   Um, I think in part the audience would be far smaller than most people realize [[Kory laughs]] and dictionary companies have essentially done that with various style guides that have come out, which focus on the do this, not that. The problem is, and the author and linguist and educator Steve Pinker discusses this in A Sense of Style, is that there are some rules that, well, where do you draw the line? For some people, you know, they will never split infinitives for other people, it's totally cool because this is a part of what you do. Uh, so there, there's this, every style guide becomes this where the line is drawn, we accept this but not this, and you can say this, but you can't say this. And it comes down basically to that editorial board or single author's opinion. Kory:                     Right? And you know, modern dictionaries are staff written and they're staff written specifically so that there is not any individual person's bias present, either with regard to cultural mores or with regard to language. And we all have these biases -- biaSEES? biaSIS? I've suddenly gone British, we all have them, anyway, even lexicographers. So, the idea of a prescriptive dictionary not only goes against all of the training that modern lexicographers have, but you know, really that's not what a dictionary should do. If you want prescriptivism, get a style guide, get a usage dictionary, get a bunch of usage dictionaries, and compare them. That's the best way really. Steve:                   In my book, in the book that I wrote Is English changing -- there's a chapter about style guides and usage books and other reference sources. And in there I distinguish between the types of rules. A rule of grammar is one that you don't have to be taught if you're the native speaker of a language, you just know it. You know, as a native speaker of English that the proper sentence structure is "The cat is on the mat" and not "The the on mat cat," for example. That-- Steve:                   Wow, you did that so naturally. Steve:                   --is no one really, no one has ever taught you that that is the rule. Steve:                   Right. Steve:                   But if you were learning Romanian, as an English speaker, you would learn that words like "the" go after the noun and not before. Kory:                     They do? Steve:                   Yes. Kory:                     I didn't know that. Steve:                   Yes. Kory:                     Dang Romanian. Steve:                   Yeah. Steve:                   Oof. Yeah. You also, the other thing that is so fascinating about dictionaries is that a lot of people, when they want prescriptivism, Steve, has alluded to this, but they don't actually want word level prescriptivism. They want sentence level prescriptivism. They want us at the entry for "infinitive" to include a thing saying don't split them or at "preposition" a note saying don't end sentences with them, and that's actually -- dictionaries only work on the word level. We do not talk about these broader style issues. We don't even talk about whether you should hyphenate "terracotta" or not. Decisions go into that. Steve:                   Actually, the two examples you mentioned are the two exceptions [[Laughter.] to that. At American Heritage, we do have a note at "split infinitive" and one at "preposition" about that just because-- Kory:                     Editorial notes not Usage Notes? Steve:                   Oh no, Usage Notes. Kory:                     Oh, Usage Notes I think are different. I mean, like when people, you know, people go buy a paperback dictionary for a dollar and they want this in there. Yeah. They and they want that kind of advice. They want someone to say don't split infinitives. They want someone to explain the difference between restrictive and nonrestrictive clauses. They, and that's not, I mean, dictionaries really have never done that. That's always been the province of grammar books and what we now call usage dictionaries. So, so what we're saying is just buy more dictionaries. Steve:                   Right? And to further to the point, for example, where I grew up, I did not distinguish well between "lie" and "lay." Kory:                     Right. Steve:                   And when it comes to the past tenses, I still have to look them up every time. This is an example of a type of speech that people expect you to use in certain contexts. And for that, there are style guides, or in the case of verbs where you actually show inflections in the dictionary matter, that is kind of their point. The part of Michigan where I grew up in, your past participle form of "buy" is "boughten" and I, and I speak not only of store boughten bread, but I will utter, "I have boughten blah, blah, blah, blah, blah" if I'm not thinking about it, because that is a quote unquote rule I had to unlearn. Kory:                     Right, and dictionaries don't, I mean, you're a general dictionary, you are trying to cover as much of the language as generally as possible, and if you start squeezing in on the prescriptive ideas of what language is, yes, you, you alienate a bunch of people, most of whom do not speak standard English, because standard English is actually a written form and we can have a whole podcast about that, too. But you know, you want to be broad and that means that you can't get into style guide issues because those change constantly. Steve:                   And, and they do change constantly. I think the Chicago manual style is just up to its 17th printing. The Associated Press Style Book is updated every single year. And there are so many different style guides and usage dictionaries. And, you're right, why pick one? You should get a variety of opinion there, see what different people are saying. There are a few issues pretty much everyone agrees on. Try to get everyone to agree on an Oxford Comma and you'll start a fight. You know, everyone has an opinion about that. So part of it is if you work for a place that has a communication staff, chances are they either have an internal style guide or they say follow the AP or the Chicago Manual or what have you, and refer to those to arbitrate decisions. And not every style guide is absolute. You can say you're going to follow the AP, and the AP editors say this all the time: "We're a guide, you know, for our AP editors, if you follow AP, but you're in-house style has a different thing, fine. Use It, use it. Just be consistent. Right? Kory:                     Right. So to sum up dictionaries, descriptive, we're sorry, that upsets you. We will actually tweet a bunch of links to some of these usage dictionaries and style guides we've been talking about. We will tweet links to Pinker's book and to David Skinner's book. Steve:                   And to this wonderful ad from the seventies. Steve:                   Oh my gosh. It really, guys, really is the most amazing ad. It really -- oh, it's so good. See you next time! Steve:                   Thank you! Bye!  

Steve Benson is the Founder & CEO of Badger Maps, the #1 app for route planning and scheduling to help outside sales reps save up to 10 hours every week in busy work - so that they can focus on selling more. Prior to launching Badger Maps Steve thrived in outside sales roles for IBM, Autonomy and Google, where he was recognized as Google Enterprise's Top Performing Sales Rep in the World for 2009 (227% of quota for the year). So Steve knows a thing or two about selling like a badger in an outside sales role. Throughout this interview Steve shares valuable insights for not only outside sales professionals to increase sales and earn more money, but also tech company leaders seeking to improve the way they build, develop and lead their sales organization.

On today’s episode of Just the Tips Dean and I welcome, entrepreneur, speaker and “people person” Steve Lowisz, to talk about one of the biggest roadblocks for entrepreneurs out there: HR and recruiting. Steve is one of the great, leading-edge thinkers when it comes to hiring and managing people, and the insights he gives here are so critical to a growing business’s success. Steve has the methodologies down, and cuts through all the cloudy thinking around hiring to give you precise tips on how to improve your HR function. As he says, “I’ll know it when I see it,” doesn’t cut it, and if you want to improve your hiring, you’ll have to listen to this episode. When you need to hire a hiring firm Dean and I were surprised to learn that Steve actually started out as an architect. But when he began looking around for more, he joined the sales team of an office supply company where he lives in Michigan and was put in charge of hiring some new employees. Without knowing what to do, he hired a firm to make the hires, and as he says, his boss told him “great job,” and then sold the business. So Steve took a job with the firm he actually hired, and from there has loved what he does. If you think hiring and HR is a nightmare or something you’re hesitant to tackle, then listen to this episode of Just the Tips to pick up advice from a guy who eats, sleeps and breathes this stuff. The three keys to successful hiring I asked Steve whether he mostly focuses on recruiting, retention or managing and developing, and I was surprised by his answer. Steve told us that ultimately all three of those aspects are just one thing you have to get right. So if you define your needs in a candidate, you use those same aspects to help develop them, and then you retain them until they’ve developed so far that you have to let them go. As Steve says, “We get it wrong, because we separate them too much.” But as Steve tells us, it’s often defining that need where entrepreneurs go astray. The baker’s dozen of questions you need to ask Steve has what he calls the “baker’s dozen of questions” to get at the heart of what an entrepreneur needs in a new hire. A lot of the questions are fairly direct and simple, he says. Questions like: “What’s working for you right now? Where do you want to go? What are your obstacles?” He says the process is a combination of art and science. The science is running through the questions, but the art is in teasing out what’s behind the answers. He also has some fascinating insights about assessments, and tools for assessments, that I think buck the common wisdom. You’ll want to hear what he says about the “thumbs up/thumbs down” approach to assessing performance. The “core four” in the science of hiring When Steve says he has hiring down to a science, he has it down to a science. He told us about his sets of “core four” principles. One set revolves around production, can the person do what you need them to do. Another set revolves around purpose: Is the candidate aligned with what you’re trying to do, and with your culture. These are often very squishy terms for entrepreneurs, but Steve has such a clear-eyed view of what they actually mean that you’ll be surprised by how you can put them into practice. If you’re even thinking about making a hire in the near future, you can’t miss this episode of Just the Tips. Outline of This Episode [3:50] Why Steve got into the people side of business [5:53] Steve’s hiring horror story [8:09] The three keys to HR [9:23] The baker’s dozen of questions [14:04] Assessments and the “core four” [17:16] What culture really means [27:43] One last nugget from Steve Resources & People Mentioned Steve Lowisz Steve on Twitter Music for “Just The Tips” is titled, “Happy Happy Game Show” by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License Connect With James and Dean James P. Friel: AutoPilot Entrepreneur Program: www.jamespfriel.com/autopilot Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/autopilotentrepreneur Site: www.jamespfriel.com Dean Holland: Blog: www.DeanHolland.com FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/DeanHollandHQ Digital Business Entrepreneurs: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DigitalBusinessEntrepreneurs/  

Welcome to the 48th CONKERS’ CORNER recorded on 11th June 2017. In this interview, I have the pleasure of speaking with business man, entrepreneur, thought leader, speaker, author, CEO & Co-Founder of Inzsure.com @TunstallAsc Steve Tunstall. Steve grew up in North Nottinghamshire on the edge of a mining community, his Grand-father was a Miner and for a while his Father was also a Miner, later he worked as a Council worker. His Dad advised him to “never go down the pit”, fortunately enough for Steve, when he was leaving school he did not have much choice because most of the mining pits in the nearby community had closed. Steve’s Mother was a Teacher and she had different ideas for him, encouraging him that he could go anywhere and be anything he wanted. Steve stayed on a school at did A Levels, he explains, “I did exceptionally badly, passing only one of them”. He points out that this was in the early 1980’s where within the mining communities, there was not a lot for anyone to do with regards to jobs/employment. Therefore as an 18 year old, he applied for a variety of jobs. He explained “I applied for around 150 jobs without getting even one interview”. So Steve did a part-time course in Mechanical Engineering, which took him to Cumbria, working at Sellafield. This was to be the beginning of Steve’s fantastic education, employment and entrepreneur journey. He was always looking “to upgrade his skills and upgrade himself”. This drive would take Steve all around the world as a global Insurance/Insurtech thought leader and ambassador. Steve now has over thirty years of experience in owning, running and future proofing companies. He has been CEO, Managing Director or equivalent in seven companies in four countries managing teams of up to 500 employees and based in Asia for over 20 years. Steve has been recognised as the No.1 worldwide influencer in Insurtech, according to the Global Instech 100. He features in the Top 20 Global Influencer lists of Rise, Richtopia and Onalytica in the areas of Insurtech, Fintech and Blockchain and has a significant presence on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and Tumblr. He is always looking to grow, learn more, share his knowledge, nurture others, whilst always remaining humble, this is his style of leadership and entrepreneurship. Steve had always been interested in investing and saving for his future, however he explains that when starting out, he was not a consistent investor and a bit too flighty. He admits that he would have been well served by Warren Buffet’s advice to buy, hold and don’t lose money. He explains that whilst still in the UK in the 1990’s he did a little bit of trading in stocks. He says that he was “ill-formed and swayed by the influence of lots of people, which probably he should not have listened to”. Many of his early investments “were less than stellar”. Nowadays, Steve has a significant proportion of his investments in Tech stocks such as Facebook, ETFs and cryptocurriencies. With his current business Inzsure.com http://www.inzsure.com/ leveraging cryptocurrency even further. Inzsure is an aggregation solution transforming commercial insurance built on Ethereum – a derivative of Blockchain. The platform leverages chatbot interfaces on a mobile first platform powered by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and informed through intensive data analysis. The radical transparent business model significantly lowers frictional transaction costs and improves both speed and security. Plus enables SME’s to purchase insurance via a technology platform direct from the global insurers. Steve buys into the vision of where of cryptocurrences is going long-term and now has a significant proportion of his wealth in cryptocurrencies. The topics we discussed include: -Asian Financial Crisis; -Crisis Management; -Risk Mitigation/ Risk Management; -Commercial disputes; -Turnaround expert; -Entrepreneur: Aspiring to run your own company; -The Asian story; -Leadership; -Insu...

Steve believes that everyone has a story. When you look around in public, you never know what someone else is going through. So Steve shares his plan to get a Reinvention Radio T-shirt and go out into the public like a roving reporter to ask people "What's your story?"... Listen in as Steve, Mary, Rich and the crew… The post Everyone Has a Story appeared first on Reinvention Radio.

Maximize Your Health To Live In Peace and Balance with Ron Williams Welcome to our podcast listeners wherever you may be in the world today. This is Steve Shallenberger, your host. And we are excited to have a wonderful friend and guest with us today, Ron Williams. Welcome, Ron! Ron: Steve, thank you so much, man. I'm glad to be with you. Steve: Now, Ron is a repeat visitor on this podcast series. I met Ron, for the first time, about a year ago and we had Ron talk about fitness. He told us about his background which is an amazing background and to what he's doing today which is helping people all over the world to improve their fitness, their health, and of course, that leads into their happiness. So as we think about The 12 Principles of Highly Successful Leaders, each one of those has a big impact on our life. But they come together to help us be highly successful leaders as we touch not only our own lives have an influence in our relationships but also help contribute to best of class, world class organizations. So one of those principles is to Live In Peace and Balance. Part of that is how do we maximize our own health: our fitness, our mental health, emotional health? Well, it just so happens that that is exactly what Ron does. And when we had the chance to visit a year ago, I mentioned to Ron on the air that I have been trying to lose 10 or 15 pounds for maybe 10 years. I mean, I'm not like really overweight but it's always there. Do you know what I'm talking about? Can anybody that's listening relate to this? And it just kind of rubbed me wrong. I felt like I could do better but it was just really hard to knock it off. And so I asked Ron what his thoughts were, and we talked about a few ideas. At the end of our session, we turned off the equipment and I told him, I said, "Ron, really, I'm serious about this. I'd like to lose 10 or 15 pounds." And Ron said, "Well, I'll tell you what, I'll think about this and I'll call you tomorrow." And so on the phone the next day, he said, "Well, I've been thinking about this and you don't need to lose 10 or 15 pounds." And I threw my hands up and I said, "Yes." And he said, "You need to lose 20 to 25 pounds." And I gulped and I said, "Okay, but I'm going to need your help." Over the next few months, I did indeed lose 25 pounds. It was an amazing process, and the fact is it wasn't a torture for me. It was a positive upbeat process. And one of the things that I found as I went to my periodic checkup with the doctor, he was amazed, first of all, but second, we noticed that my blood pressure had decreased. It wasn't really particularly high before, it was in good shape, but it had gone down. My cholesterol levels had gone down, and this is tracking a 16-year baseline that I had with this particular doctor. And so we had all of this data, and you can push a button right there and it automatically graphs everything. And so you see this graph, and it kind of goes up over the years and all of a sudden, a big drop. Found that my weight had a big drop, and that this was a correlation throughout across the board and that I was much healthier. And so, first of all, I credit Ron. There's a number of things we did, and we're going to have the chance to talk about some of those today. First of all, Ron, I'm just going to invite you to share anything that you would like to about what's been happening in your life over the last year. I have also recommended Ron to a couple of friends and they've had similar experiences. So why don't you bring us up to speed on anything that you would like to talk about, experiences that you're having, what you're seeing? But what would you like to just introduce yourself with? Ron: Awesome. First of all, I want to say thank you, Steve, for all that you have done for my business. One of the things that I found with working with Steve was this is that here I am coaching this guy, thinking,"You know what, I'm doing him a great service," and you know, we lost the 25 pounds, but the little nuggets that I got from him let me know that I needed a coach. And he became my coach. So Steve is my coach today, and I want to appreciate him in what he does. But some of the things that have happened over the year is that I'd been able to put together programs for corporations that have drastically changed the face of you know, the companies, and we've really been enjoying that. And we realized that the principles of what we teach cross boundaries, meaning that we work in several areas: faith, family, fitness, and finances. And with that being said, regardless of what direction you're moving in, there are universal principles that actually cross those boundaries and we call them "Champion Principles," and if you apply it as far as your fitness is concerned, those same principles apply in your business, in your relationships, and across the board, Steve. Steve: Well good. Well, all right. So since we're having this discussion, Ron...and Ron has been a great coach for me, and I'm glad that we've been able to be of help to him. It's been fun to see some of the things that have happened. Ron, together with his wife Tanya, have created a 9-week fitness program that they have shared with a few special clients. Would you mind telling us about that and how it's designed, and what some of the end results that you're having? And the purpose of doing this is that I'd like to have our listeners today have some hope, have some encouragement that if they do certain things, they can get to a better place that makes them feel better, frankly. Ron: Absolutely. This 9-week program is really just a basis and a starting place because our complete desire is to develop lifestyle. And that's what I can see in Steve, is he's developed a lifestyle. You know, he lost the weight, but if you look at him today, he looks better now than he did at the completion of the program. You know why? Because he's continuing in that same lifestyle. And that's what we want to do is to develop these principles so that it becomes a lifestyle to you. But one of the main principles is never to allow yourself to be hungry. It's very important because you send your body a signal of starvation. When many times, what people think is that it's willpower, "If I can starve myself and just have the will to keep going." But that sends a signal to the body of starvation. So eating and making sure you're never hungry is very important. Another principle would be to eat in combinations. Combinations are so important. If your desire is to decrease body fat, you never ever want to eat a carbohydrate by itself. The reason why, I'm going to explain this as short as I can, when you eat a carbohydrate by itself, it spikes the blood glucose level which causes the pancreas to secrete the insulin where the insulin is the culprit of the excess body fat. Your blood sugar level comes down when the insulin is secreted, but it converts those calories into triglycerides which is blood fat, and it pumps it directly into the fat cell. So we want to move away from that. If you don't eat enough calories, then your metabolism slows down, and when you do eat, those calories convert to body fat as well. There are 75 reasons why people are overweight and obese, so we have to find out individually what are yours and which ones belong to you. Reverse that, we can get rid of the body fat. Steve: Okay, all right. Well, that's good advice. Now, the first time we got going on this, Ron explained this to me, the example that he used for me was that if you eat an apple...And you correct any of this if you don't mind, Ron. But if you eat an apple by itself, it's the carbohydrate. It will be digested by the body within 20 minutes. Is that about right? Ron: Absolutely. Steve: But if you'll take that same apple and it goes right to fat, as Ron just explained...On the other hand, if you eat that apple together with the protein together with an essential fatty acid, it takes four hours for the body to digest this and it goes directly to energy. Ron: Wow, that's awesome that you remember that principle. Yes, and this is for those that are trying to decrease body fat. If you're an athlete and you have a high metabolism, this would not apply for you because sometimes you would take in pure sugar to propel you forward in whatever activity you're competing in. But if your desire is to decrease body fat, Steve is 100% spot on. Steve: Okay, and so that was really helpful. So that's a good tip for today is whenever you eat any type of foods, be sure you have at least three things on your plate: a carbohydrate, a protein, and the essential fatty acids. Right? Ron: Absolutely. Beautiful. Steve: Okay, that's if you're trying to, you know, lose body fat. And that's what I was doing, and I still do that by the way. I'm trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle of an ongoing diet that I know I can sustain. People often ask "Well, what are essential fatty acids?" That's raw almonds, avocados. What are some other sources of that, Ron? Ron: Wheat germ oil would be another one. You know, you said avocado. There's a new oil called avocado oil. I love the avocado oil because I can put it in any of my drinks and it's hard to even taste. Steve: Oh, okay. All right, good. So, Ron, what are some problems that you see are common in our society concerning excess body fat? Have we already talked about it? Have we covered that or...? Ron: Well, one problem I see is that we in America are getting fatter. You know, years ago, it was hard to find a person that was more than 300 pounds. Now we're 600, 700, 800, 900, even a thousand pounds. I mean, that was unheard of. The body is so resilient and I don't know how the body can handle that. But we're becoming more overweight and obese because of being sedentary and the other thing is poor eating and some of the things that we're putting in our bodies, and we have to reverse that. That's a real passion of mine. Steve: Okay good, all right. Well, so in terms of the eating do you... I'd like to just get back to that. Are there some things that our listeners can do to have a healthy set of eating habits? Like I know that you sent to me, originally, the Champions' Nutritional Guideline as I recall. Ron: Yes, sir. Steve: I don't know if that addresses it but maybe you could take a minute to just talk about, well, what are types of healthy eating. Ron: Okay, types of healthy eating depending on where you are, if you need to lose 15 pounds, if you need to lose 30 pounds, if you need to lose 70 pounds, or if you're in a class that we considered a hard-loser. A lot of people go on diet, after diet, after diet and what you end up doing is retarding your metabolism. When you retard your metabolism, it doesn't function properly the way it should. And then we have those people out there that are insulin resistant. And all of these create a huge problem. So what you have to do is find out, first of all, which category you're in, and then, you want to start off by detoxifying the body. Because we have what you call "fat-loss resistant chemicals" along with estrogen mimickers, and what estrogen mimickers do is they create excess body fat. And we want to get those toxins out of the body so that the body will function the way it should properly. There's certain things that 200 years ago, we weren't privileged to put in our body, you know, and we want to go back to nature as much as we possibly can. The way God originally created food is the way we should ingest it. God didn't create the Oreo cookie. I know some of you think he did but he really didn't create the Oreo cookie. And what I do is I study out different ingredients, where they came from, how we came about it. And when you look at an Oreo cookie, the center of that Oreo cookie that you take...you open the Oreo cookie and you scrape that white stuff on your teeth. Do you know what that is? It would be equivalent to Crisco oil or that Crisco-thick saturated fat that you're scraping on your teeth that has some sugar and has a little vanilla flavoring. But you're putting that directly into your body and it clogs the arteries and creates excess body fat. Well, if we go back to nature, we'll find out those things that we originally ate were to bring health, life, and longevity. So I would say, first of all, let's learn a little bit about good nutritional value. Eat those things that are very nutritious. Eat organic as you possibly can. Fresh is better than frozen. Frozen is better than canned. And try to get back to nature as much as you possibly can. Steve: Okay. Well, those are some good guidelines. And as I started adopting this, I didn't know what to expect but what I found is that eating, for example, the steamed vegetables were amazing. I don't know how I had missed these before. So yellow squash and steamed broccoli and the cauliflower, and there are so many amazing things that are so good. And I've loved the celery, the carrots. All of these things are so good, and I think they're part of what you're talking about. Ron: Yes. sir. Absolutely. Steve: kay, good. All right, well, let's just wrap up with a couple of thoughts here. What are a few things that we could implement today that would aid in decreasing body fat? Maybe we've already talked about it, but...And then, I'd like to talk about...the final thing is the role of exercise versus diet. Ron: Awesome, awesome. Well, one thing, it's very, very simple but it's huge, and that's change the type of water you drink because water, you know, it's the number one nutritional thing that we can put in our bodies. At one time, you could get water for free, but good quality water you have to pay for. It is very, very important because we're made up of 70% water. In water, just because it's clear does not mean that it's clean. We have different things in our body: fat-loss resistant chemicals along with estrogen mimickers, medication. Some people are taking hormone therapy. All of that gets into the water, and you think it gets cleaned out but it really doesn't. The other things...we have chlorine. Now, an estrogen mimicker, you've probably wondered where do they come from: pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, chlorine, perchlorate, which is jet fuel. All of those have estrogen mimickers. Heart medication, they'll tell you with some heart medication that it creates tenderness of your breast or your chest which become breast, and that's because there's an estrogen mimicker in there. When little girls go through puberty they get that tenderness, and that starting to happen in men along with other excess body fat throughout their bodies. So a good source of water is distilled water that's fortified with the minerals, that's pure water. So that's really important. You can implement that starting today. Steve: Now, let's just hold on a second. Where did they get that? Ron: Distilled water, you can either distill it yourself by having a distiller or you can just go on the Internet and google distilled water in your area or you can find it on the grocery store shelf, distilled water. But fortify it with the minerals. Even on our website, if you're looking for the minerals, they should cost you somewhere between $17 to $19. If it cost you more than that for a 90 day supply, way too expensive. We have some on our website for just $14.95. Steve: Okay, all right. Well, let's take this last question. It's been a good interview and good ideas today and hopefully, some encouragement for people and keeping it simple on a way forward. How big of a role does exercise play? How big of a role does the diet play? Ron: Well, as a competitor, exercise is a very, very small percentage, something like 20%. And the nutritional part of it is somewhere around 75% to 80%. I mean, the nutritional part of it is huge, but the combination together, utterly, utterly important. You can go on a diet by itself and you'll receive some results or you can do exercise by itself and depending on the type of metabolism you have, you may get no results. But the combination together, scientifically, is the best thing you could possibly do. Steve: Okay, and then one last question, Ron. What have you found is the best way to get this distilled water? Do you just buy it from a store around or can you get it in a larger container? What's the easiest way? What have you found the best way to get it? Ron: The best way to get it is have it brought to your house. It's really inexpensive. If you have a store that's fairly close, and as I said just google it, they will actually bring five-gallon containers to your house for less than 60 cents a gallon. If you go to the store, it may cost you $1.25 or maybe even higher. And another thing is distilled water... you can only drink that for two weeks. It'll help detoxify the body but after two weeks, start putting the minerals in. Steve: Okay, yeah. That's a critical part, right? Because it can actually hurt your health if you continue with the distilled water without the minerals. Ron: That's right because water, by itself, it has open bonds, and as we receive rain, it goes through the atmosphere but it collects the asset that's in the atmosphere then it hits the ground. But when that water is completely distilled, it has open bonds. And when it goes to your body, it does the same thing. it collects the dirt and the filth but it also absorbs those minerals and will pull the minerals out of your system. So get the water distilled, two weeks, it'll help you detoxify. But after the two weeks, apply the minerals. Steve: Okay, good stuff. Well, this is been a great interview. Hopefully, you have received a few good ideas. And if this is an area of interest, then certainly, the diet that we've talked about, the way you eat, the number of meals, and then try to have a consistent exercise program to supplement what you're doing. The distilled water... Ron: Absolutely. Steve: With the minerals. Okay, good start. Now, Ron, how can they find out about what you're doing or learn more? Ron: Well, one is we have a YouTube channel which is just, Ron Williams YouTube Channel. The next thing, you could go to our website which is ironchestmaster.com or rwfitness.com. You can find me on the Internet just google Ron Williams. Steve: Okay, good to know. Well, thank you. It's been a great interview. And Ron, I can't wait to see what happens in the next year. Ron: Absolutely. Steve: All right. Well, we're signing off and remember that every one of you is making a difference in your own life. And I'd like to give you hope and encouragement that if you've had 10 or 15 pounds or whatever that you've been trying to lose, you can do it, and it's just a steady effort and you can have fun doing it. It's an adventure. Well, we wish you all the best. This is Steve Shallenberger signing off with Becoming Your Best. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

"You're killing my chance to be the Richard Simmons of politics….."Steve tries to get Caroline off the couch but the news is so fast and furious that Caroline cannot go out and resist until she gets some answers about the state of current affairs. So Steve agrees to catch her up on the events of the past week exacting a promise from her that she will rally for next week. Caroline shows she never saw Schoolhouse Rock so they talk about “how a bill becomes a law,” so “is it normal to lock yourself to in a room and only speak to the other people in that room?” and it goes all over the place from there. In the end all politics is local and Caroline’s promised to learn all her elected representatives by next week when they'll get off the couch and take a look at race in America, well in New Jersey anyway…..

"You're killing my chance to be the Richard Simmons of politics….."Steve tries to get Caroline off the couch but the news is so fast and furious that Caroline cannot go out and resist until she gets some answers about the state of current affairs. So Steve agrees to catch her up on the events of the past week exacting a promise from her that she will rally for next week. Caroline shows she never saw Schoolhouse Rock so they talk about “how a bill becomes a law,” so “is it normal to lock yourself to in a room and only speak to the other people in that room?” and it goes all over the place from there. In the end all politics is local and Caroline’s promised to learn all her elected representatives by next week when they'll get off the couch and take a look at race in America, well in New Jersey anyway…..

Cultural Exchange: Serial. Making an utter mockery of the name of our podcast holds no sway for Chris, he wants to talk to someone about Serial, the blockbusting podcast that became a smash-hit and by word for podcasting excellence. So Steve binges 8 hours of it and we talk about it all! Made with Cast. Try for free at http://cast.rocks/12885. Follow the brothers at twitter.com/obrotherpod and facebook.com/obrotherpodcast.

Well we didn't take the week off.... So Steve brings in his lovely wife Mary, and joining them is Mike to talk Thanksgiving, food, traditions, shopping, and more! We hope you continue to enjoy the episodes and please feel free to respond to any and all feedback methods. We will read and reply on the show. Topic suggestions also welcome. So get Altered, Get Geeky with the Altered Geeks. (NEW) Question of the Night:Send us any comments you'd like! We plan to do a comment Q&A episode in the future. Is there anything you'd like us to cover? Let us know!Your Geek Question for the WeekWhat is something awesome in your lives this week?What are your thanksgiving traditions?Have you ever moved for a job? Feedback:Voicemail Line: 502-526-5821Email: feedback@geekcastradio.comTwitter: @AlteredGeekFacebook: GeekCast Radio NetworkFeed: HereGeeks:Steve "Megatron" PhillipsMary PhillipsMike "TFG1" Blanchard

So Steve has a massive screw up and thinks that we are going to interview SIXX AM this week, but midway through the show realizes that is next week.  We end up chatting about Ted's Weed Week adventure on The Men's Room and Thee Podcast yesterday.  Plus we learn a new guitar technique... the “Tickle The Testies”…aka…#TTT!   Mega Playlist:  Push Ups:  SIXX A.M. --  “Rise” SIXX A.M  – “You Have Come To The Right Place”. SIXX A.M  -- “Life Is Beautiful”. SIXX A.M – “Prayers For The Damned”. SIXX A.M -- “Gotta Get It Right”. Follow us on Twitter: @TheMegaCast . Email us: TheMegaCast@yahoo.com . See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So Steve and Alil have some great conversations, but fav sh%t, and Toy Box, but what happened to Sean?  Also the Geekz discuss The DC Universe movies with news that was reported out of Cinemacon, and the Marvel Universe including phase 4, and potential Fox Crossover.  So sit back and enjoy the ride..

Steve was present for the last sermon I ever preached at my former Mega-Machine. In fact, that's when we first met. I knew almost immediately that he was much different from any other pro athlete/celebrity I had ever met. In Seattle, Futbol (Soccer) sells out stadiums. The MLS team, The Sounders, actual win. The team is owned by comedian, and The Price is Right host, Drew Carey. So Steve is a celebrity in the city and the Futbol world. He is well loved, and well respected by both colleagues and fans. What drew me to Steve was his graciousness, humility, and desire for continual learning and growth. Even though our public chats are often interrupted by fans, we always dig deeper than surface level in our conversations. As a young man, Steve was mentored by Myles Munroe. A speaker from the Mega-Machine I had listened to several times. In fact, Myles was one of the few Mega-Ministers I ever felt at ease hearing speak. His focus on Jesus and the Kingdom of God, instead of prosperity gospel and tithe taking was always refreshing. Myles tragically died last November in an airplane crash. The most impressive thing I have seen in Steve's life lately has been how he has handled the adversities of losing his career to injury, losing his mentor to an airplane crash, and losing his close friend to a motorcycle accident all in the last two years. As he starts his new career, plans his wedding, mourns the loss of dear friends, and sits with me over drinks. He remains the same Steve I once met four years ago. Humble, full of hope, and inquisitive and questioning as ever. As a Futbol or Soccer Celebrity and Pro-Athlete, Steve has a unique perspective of institutional religion in America. We talk about it, along with describing how dropping our beliefs made it possible for us to love those that are different from us.   Join the CounterCulture Society: http://eepurl.com/bwqMWT Produce Our Show: https://www.patreon.com/losingourreligion Find Out More: http://www.losingourreligion.org This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/015-seattle-sounders-steve-zakuani-podcast

Continuing the 30th Anniversary Celebration, Steve Megatron, TFG1Mike, and PecanCtMichael have a discussion on Transformers Generation 2…At one point Michael Wilson starts rambling about Botcon, followed by TFG1Mike’s connection crapping out… So Steve and PecanCt finished the episode without him laughing all the way! Geeks: Steve “Megatron” Phillips Mike “TFG1″ Blanchard PecanCtMichael Subscribe to us ...

It is a bold new year, with such putzes in it. So Steve and Mike missed recording the Batman #15 review in December 2012. Fear not though, because 2013 is here, this means a review of Batman #15, and later in January a review of Batman #16. Geeks: Mike “TFG1″ Blanchard Steve “Megatron” Phillips Subscribe ...

July 27th-29th, 2012 is TFCon. This year Steve/Megatron is going! So Steve and Mike sit down with The Goddamn Protoman to get a preview of what is in store for TFCon this year.   TFCon Website Geeks: Mike “TFG1? Blanchard Paul “Optibotimus” Reinhart Bob “Slimeblower” Gilmer Subscribe to us using iTunes or use any other podcatching ...

This week, Gudda's computer was dead So Steve and guest host Mike Hohman to fill in as a guest host. We talk about the Green Lantern Sneak Peaks so far and some teams we played last weekend. Great fun!