Podcasts about so mark

Passive Real Estate Investing

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 9, 2020 111:51

We are back in the saddle and taking a harder look at the Republican National Convention and Democratic National Convention take-aways.... Joining us on this fun adventure is none other than Gary Weed, who makes his return after a few weeks. And then later we turn to a discussion about ARCH DEV OPS and one of their founders named Michael Fritzius aka Fritz! First up Mark and Gary break down relationships and how people should end them with each other. Both gentlemen have been dealing with people who are getting broken up during coronavirus and this goes into a bigger discussion of what is the proper way to break up when you're older. Or anytime for that matter. Next, Mark and Gary breakdown and discuss the RNC and DNC conventions independently. This leads into a discussion about the midwest and what different sections of the country are depending on where you live and how you view them. This of course runs down the path of voting and Mark and Gary start talking about the election itself and how it should be handled in 2020. Finally Gary is back into his I LOVE THE XFL and anything MARK SAYS is just WRONG! Well Mark and Gary discuss the XFL and it's new owner but more importantly mark calling that the XFL reboot would fail (doesn't matter how, because other sports are still going). Next up is Michael Fritzius and he comes by to discuss his company Arch Dev Ops and the kind of things that they are involved with and how they can help businesses during the Coronavirus Pandemic. Mark asks Fritz about the Kenosha Killer named Kyle Rittenhouse and then explains the entire story to Fritz who is none the wiser. This is because Fritz is a self admitted NERD. So Mark had to investigate. Mark and Fritz start talking about Nerd things and his homelife. Mark wants to break down what Fritz is working with and starts discussing his children and his relationship with his wife. Finally the guys nerd out and Mark puts Fritz through the Hot Seat and allows his inner nerd to join with Fritz as they argue and discuss Buck Rogers, Mark meeting a Dr. Who and Fritz's favorite TV shows and movies. So worth the wait.

Ep 27 - Agile Testing For Your LinkedIn Ads Management

LinkedIn Ads Show

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 4, 2020 27:42

Show Resources: Episode 25 - How to Optimize Your LinkedIn Ads For Better Performance Episode 06 - LinkedIn Ads Bidding & Budgeting Strategies Episode 15 - Benchmarking Your LinkedIn Ads LinkedIn Learning course about LinkedIn Ads by AJ Wilcox: LinkedIn Advertising Course Contact us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with ideas for what you'd like AJ to cover. Show Transcript: You've heard of agile development. But have you heard of Agile LinkedIn Ads management? Strap in, I'm gonna show you how it's done. Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Here's your host, AJ Wilcox. 0:21 Hey there LinkedIn Ads fanatics. So Episode 25 was all about the types of optimizations that you can make in your account to show improvement. But you've all been asking me how often you should be doing this optimization and how much data you need and how fast you can go. So I'm going to break down exactly how you can go and launch, test, and pivot with your LinkedIn Ads in a very agile way so you can move faster and conquer your competition. In the news, LinkedIn did a survey where they had just over 800 marketers across the globe kind of self report on how they'd been disrupted during the whole COVID situation and the results were quite interesting. About 10% of respondents said that their business had been totally disrupted. So this is a group who are trying to save their marketing budgets, and basically try to stay in business and not lay anyone off. Then about 70% responded that it was business, but unusual. So they're spending time on strategic planning. They've been mildly disrupted, and they're trying to figure out ways to get around and get through. But business is still going. And then you had 20%, who really said their business had been evolving. These were companies in a category that are really thriving right now. They're in a growing market. They're finding new customers, they're taking advantage of these new opportunities that the post COVID world is providing from those that I've spoken to I would say that these percentages are probably about accurate. In the survey results, they linked to a document that they call Driving ROI. And it's a set of best practice resources that LinkedIn compiled to help marketers. So I clicked on it, I read it, it was from 2019. And it is something that I'd read before but had kind of forgotten about. And I want to point out just some interesting findings here. And I've linked to this in the show notes down below. But it's called the long and short of ROI. As you consume this, you can just hear LinkedIn ranting, during the whole piece about the complaints that they hear so often from advertisers. They really come to three points here. Number one, marketers are measuring ROI too quickly. Number two, when they say they're measuring ROI, they're not really measuring ROI. And number three, internal pressures are causing marketers to move too fast and make actually poor decisions. And although it does sound like a bit of a rant, I totally understand where they're coming from. I'm sure they've had many advertisers quit where they say, you know what, we had to quit, we're just not seeing the return on our investment here. So this is LinkedIn reminding us if your sales cycle is six months long, quit complaining when you haven't seen ROI after four months of advertising. We talked about this in Episode 24, all about funnels. But LinkedIn is going to look really expensive if you're just tracking to the cost per lead. And if you're not measuring past that, if you're not measuring to cost per sales qualified lead, or cost per proposal, or cost per closed deal. Those are the points in your sales process where LinkedIn is gonna start looking really good. So if you're not tracking all the way to that, you probably won't have enough faith in the platform to give it a real shot, or even keep going. We're also planning a Q and A episode here in the next few episodes. This is our first of hopefully many. And I want to get our q&a questions from you. So any question you have about LinkedIn, I mean, we'll make it a total potpourri. Email them over to us at Podcast@B2Linked.com and we'll do our best to include it. I want to highlight a couple new reviews on our iTunes page Naira Perez, who is the founder of SpringHill Digital up in Portland. She is a LinkedIn Ads and a social ads expert. I've gotten to talk to you on many occasions. She's amazing. Okay, so her review says two words "amazing and useful". "AJ gives you actionable lessons. He doesn't keep secrets when it comes to optimizing ads on LinkedIn. He shares what has worked for him and what hasn't. If you run LinkedIn ads, listen to AJ, you will learn something in every episode, he is the gift that keeps on giving". Naira, thank you so much for the kind words, I'm so glad that you're getting a lot of use out of this. The next one comes from Mark Gustafson, who's the founder of 900Kings, and actually a close friend. He's actually the inspiration and my fact checker for episodes eight and nine, all about Facebook ads and Google ads. He's a fantastic paid search and social marketer. So Mark says "best B2B Advertising resource". "AJ is the best in the business. There isn't anyone else I turned to with B2B questions. He's easily the most knowledgeable about the LinkedIn ads platform. The podcast is pure value and perfect for the newest B2B marketer all the way to the most senior. Also, can we talk about that dreamy voice? I could listen to those dulcet tones for days." Mark, thanks for the kind words and thanks for turning a bright red behind the mic. I'm so glad this isn't a video podcast. And seriously, listen to my voice. There is nothing sweet about this. I'll rant for a second. I've got this crazy accent from growing up in both Utah and Arizona and learning Spanish in high school learning Russian after high school and before college. Basically, I don't even know how to describe my own accent. I sound real weird and I fully admit it. Okay, cool. Now I want to feature you so please do make sure you review on whatever podcast player you listen to this on. Leave a review. I'd love to shout you out on air. Thanks in advance for that. Okay, with that being said, let's hit it. 5:59 Agile Testing We're gonna talk about agile testing. So what is agile? Well, agile methodology is really started out in project management as a way for cross functional teams to get to move quickly and build collaboratively through continuous improvement. Now, you may have heard of development teams working in two weeks sprints, or doing daily stand up meetings. This all comes from the whole agile movement. We've adapted this to LinkedIn Ads management because it's a process that really requires continuous improvement, just like project management. So what is agile management of LinkedIn Ads? Well, to me, it's it's really making quick decisions on results from your LinkedIn Ads, so that you can learn more and test faster, find out what performs and then you can do more of that and have success for longer. So I'm going to share the agile process that we follow. And it all starts the moment we launch new ads. So when we launch new ads, we try to launch on either a Monday or a Tuesday whenever possible. And that's because those two days are the days where LinkedIn traffic is the strongest. We try to stay in the morning because morning tends to be the strongest traffic times for LinkedIn. We're always going to launch two ads, an AB test, where we are varying something so that we have something to compare against. Because if you just launch one ad, whether it performs well or whether it performs poorly, you don't know what caused that. But if you launch two at a time, you're giving yourself a better chance of having something that's going to be successful and getting to compare against what wasn't successful. Now if our Monday or a Tuesday happens to land on a holiday or the next few days our holiday we try to postpone either launched the week earlier or a week later. Again, when possible. Sometimes you've got a gun to your head and you just have to get ads launched. I'm sure you've listened to episode six because it was one of our most popular episodes. It's all about bidding and budgeting and it's the strategy we use to get the lowest cost from LinkedIn, no matter what your budget and what your performance. So if you've listened to that, you know that you're going to start with cost per click bidding. And you're going to bid really low to keep your risk low as you're testing. Right after your ads go live for the first day or day and a half, LinkedIn is testing your ads to try to figure out what the relevancy score is going to be. In order for them to test, they seem to give you pretty prime placement for your ads. And they're going to show quite a few impressions to your audience. And really, they're going to give you the benefit of the doubt in most situations. Regardless of how your bidding, chances are, they'll probably show you towards the top of the rankings. So you're probably getting impressions that are worth more than what you're paying, especially if you're bidding low. But once a day to a day and a half has passed. LinkedIn has shown your ad enough times they've given it enough impressions or given them enough impressions, that they can give you this relevancy score. And let's say it's a number between 0 and 10. Based off of that relevancy score, your next few days are going to become very evident how you're performing. So days two and three, we're watching to see what happens. LinkedIn has given you the relevancy score that they think you deserve. I think they make the decision a little bit quick, but so do all the other platforms. But you're really on your own now. And it could result in three possible outcomes here. So the first outcome is, you have a really high click through rate right out of the gate. And so LinkedIn gives you a great relevancy score, you immediately start spending everything you want to. And if you click performance chart inside of campaign manager, and look at these campaigns, by impressions, it will look like a couple of flat days where LinkedIn was giving you the benefit of the doubt. And then a spike upward when you actually outperformed their expectations. That's fantastic. On the opposite side of the spectrum, you could also come out of the gate with a low click through rate and a poor relevancy score. You'll know this happened when your impressions really fall off a cliff. So if you go to again, performance chart inside of campaign manager, and you look by the impressions by day, your first day, LinkedIn gave you a bunch of impressions. The second day, it was kind of halfway through where they decided you were a poor performer. And then by the third day, they just didn't deliver much. It looks like the downslope of a mountain. And the third potential outcome is really you did okay, you got an okay click through rate and a decent relevancy score. And things might continue the way that LinkedIn kind of predicted they were. So now we'll dive into what you can do, based off of which outcome you really landed in. 10:40 Outcome Number 1 So outcome number one, you did great, your ads are attractive enough to get traffic, but don't rest on your laurels yet it's not over. Once you get people to click, now you need to convert them. So assuming things are looking good to the click through rate, people actually care about your ads. Now you're going to go into data gaps. mode, let your ads run for the next $300 to $1,000 and get a feel for the conversion rate. If you're happy with your conversion rate and your cost per lead, just let it ride. Go back into data gathering mode, you're gonna hands off, leave it alone. So you can accumulate enough data to analyze, and use to optimize later. Go listen to Episode 15, if you haven't already, because it's all about benchmarks. And we go super deep into how you can tell what's working and what's not. So you can focus in the right area. And you want to make sure that you're watching this performance over time, because we have this thing happen in social advertising, especially called ad saturation, or audience fatigue. And what that is, is you are showing your same ads and offers to the same people over and over and on a pretty good performing ad, still only about 1% of people who see it will end up clicking on it. So that means 99% of people potentially see your ad and go, nah, I don't want to click on it. Even the people who might want to click on it, if it's the fourth, fifth, eighth time they've seen this exact ad, they're going to take a mental note of it, and then just skip it next time they become banner blind. And the way this will manifest itself in your account, if you go back into performance chart in campaign manager, and switch to looking by average click through rate, you can see over time that your click through rate is starting to drop. We found this period to be about 27 to 33 days on average, which is about a month. So what that tells us is if things are going pretty well, we might check on it two weeks from now three weeks from now and just see our our click through rates decreasing significantly. Does it feel like these ads have lost steam? Have they dropped in relevancy score leading to higher cost per click or lower delivery? And we know because the average is about a month. That means once a month, we're going to plan on refreshing our ad creative or testing a new offer, even even if it was a fantastically powerful high performing offer to begin with, because over time, anything will become a low performer, if you've saturated your audience hard enough, and that's mostly ad saturation, people getting sick of seeing the same ads. And you can relieve them of this by simply just changing the image. You may also want to change your ad copy in case they've already clicked or maybe even converted. But what's most important here is the ad needs to look different and stand out. 13:35 Audience Fatigue Now audience fatigue is something that's a little bit different. Let's say you've been advertising heavily for the last four or five years. Or maybe we'll simplify it, let's say for the last one year, you've been going heavy on an audience. You've been religiously changing your ad copy, keeping things fresh, trying new offers entirely, you may find that your performance decreases over time because the that audience has already heard of your company and is now starting to ignore anything from your company. This isn't a great place to be in because if you've been advertising heavily for years and years, chances are you are really relying on the leads that this platform pushes. But it could be a sign that you either need to really vary things up, or even try going on pause for a little bit, giving your audience a rest, and then see if they come back after a little while. So that's how I handle it. If you launch and the launch was very successful, your ads did great. 14:30 Outcome Number 2 But what if you had a failed launch? This is outcome number two, it means your ads really didn't land with your audience. There could be a lot of reasons for that. You might have done a poor job of actually defining who that audience was. Your ad might not have looked attractive enough for them to stop scrolling. And maybe most often, your ad copy didn't do a good job of pressing on a pain point, or calling out to them in a way that they cared about. But for whatever reason, your ads came out of the gate with a poor, click through rate and you've got a bad relevancy score. LinkedIn gave you a small sample of impressions for a day to a day and a half. And it means your ads didn't get enough clicks to qualify for a high relevancy score. So performance is likely going to be terrible. You can force it, you can specifically go in and bid higher or do automated bidding. But if you do this, you will pay way too much per click, and you will just be getting robbed by the platform. When ads come out of the gate performing poorly, sometimes it's really unfair. Sometimes LinkedIn unfairly awarded you a poor relevancy score because in the sample, they showed they didn't see enough clicks. And so they assumed you had a poor relevancy score. But you can resurrect this by just launching the same ads again. So if we launch on a Friday or a Saturday, and our ads just die, most of the time, what we'll try doing is just go and relaunch exactly the same ads on a Monday or a Tuesday, and just see. We're giving LinkedIn just one more chance with these ads to see if they unfairly awarded a poor relevancy score. If they fail for a second time, though, especially on a Monday or a Tuesday morning launch, then we know something's wrong with that ad creative. And we need to go back to the drawing board, or continue to suffer the most expensive cost per click you've ever seen from any channel. If you're having a hard time getting people to click on your ads or getting LinkedIn to even serve them. This point, you probably have not gotten enough traffic to find out how it's going to convert on your offer. Or maybe you did get a decent conversion rate. But since the clicks are costing so much, your cost per lead wouldn't be worthwhile in the end anyway. So at this point, things are going poorly and you should plan on just pausing these ads and relaunching an entirely new test. Episode 24 was all about funnels, so make sure you're paying attention to the right thing. If your click through rates are doing great, don't go and test new ads copy. And if your conversion rates are great, don't go and make major landing page changes. First start with the lowest hanging fruit, the parts of the account that are having the most trouble. If what you're trying isn't working, you can really try something radically different. And like I mentioned earlier, an AB test is going to give you a better chance of finding success with at least one of your variations. So try launching two ads where you vary the pain point you're pressing on. Or maybe you're touching on a different motivation. Or maybe you're even testing different calls to action or offers. You never know how something is going to perform until you test it. So don't be afraid to launch new ads and quickly retire them or pause them. If they're not living up to your standards. Then we have the third outcome, which is kind of like it's okay performance. There are certainly things you can do to try to increase performance. But if things are just going okay, I would say just like option number one where we had a success campaign go into data gathering mode. And then once you have enough data, evaluate to see if it's worth continuing or if there's something in the account that needs to be improved. Here's a quick sponsor break, and then we'll dive into maintaining an account once it's doing well. 18:15 The LinkedIn Ads Show is proudly brought to you by B2Linked.com, the LinkedIn Ads Experts. 18:25 If the performance of your LinkedIn Ads is important to you, B2Linked is the agency you'll want to work with. We manage LinkedIn's's largest accounts and we are the only media buying agency to be official LinkedIn partners. And performance to your goals is our only priority. Fill out the contact form on any page of B2Linked.com to get in touch, and we'd love to help you absolutely demolish your goals. 18:47 Continued Maintenance Alright, let's jump into continued maintenance. We talked about Ad saturation, how about once a month, your ads aren't going to be fresh anymore and you've got to change them up. So plan on doing that at least once per month. And follow the same agile testing steps that I mentioned before. Every new ad launch, you're going to take a look at it and say, okay, for the first three days, I'm going to watch and see, do these perform well? Are they getting a good click through rate? Are we getting a good cost per click? And then over the next week or two, you're saying, okay, is this leading to the conversions at the right costs that I want. You'll also want to keep your offers or your calls to action fresh, because you can change the image you can change the ad copy of your ads, a ton of times, but eventually people are going to catch on if you've been advertising exactly the same offer for the last six months. Every offer really has its own life. We've seen some that after a month that audience has just done and then we had one account where we had a winning offer that we couldn't dethrone for like seven months. No matter what other offers we threw at this audience, they kept preferring the one from seven months ago, and it was still converting even though it wasn't converting at the same rate that it was at the beginning, so we were trying to get it off its throne. So if you've been running an offer for about a month, chances are you can refresh your ad creative, use a new visual, and you can get that offer to live for another month, maybe even two. So watch that performance. Specifically watch your cost per lead, and your conversion rate as you go. As soon as you see that conversion rates start to slip, that's probably a great sign that you need to change up your call to action, give them a different kind of offer something that's new, that they will actually consider if they've already seen the other one several times and have decided, oh, I've already converted, or no, I'm not interested in that. And then keep that up, rotate through new ad creative and new offers as needed as your performance starts to decrease. And if you do this, congratulations, your lead generation machine is complete. To maintain it, what you need to do is Just keep feeding it new ads, new headlines, new intros, and new offers only when they're needed. And then this entire time you're gaining knowledge, you're learning about your audience along the way, you're finding out what they like and what they don't. 21:14 Pain Points Here at B2Linked, we do a lot of ads troubleshooting. And so I thought it would be helpful to at least share with you how we think about finding pain points and what potential solutions are. So let's say your ads aren't performing well. That means either you're getting a high cost per click, or a low click through rate, or even both, they oftentimes go together. What you can do is try new ad copy, new imagery. If it's a video ad, try new video creative. And after two or three different tests of messaging, or visuals, if it's still not getting clicked, chances are the problem is your offer. You're probably asking people to do something that they are either unwilling to do and it scares them away, or they just don't see value in what about your conversion rates. Let's say you're not happy with how much you're paying per conversion, or your conversion rate is low. There are two things that we like to test here. And the first is evaluate your landing page. It's possible that your offer itself is really attractive, but maybe the way that your landing page is laid out, or the elements on it are getting in the way or distracting, and it's decreasing your conversion rate. One easy way to test if it's your landing page that's getting in the way, or the offer is you can test the same exact ad, but run it as a LinkedIn lead gen form. So you're asking people with the same form, but you're skipping the landing page, your website visit all together. Now lead gen forms, as I'm sure you know, tend to convert significantly higher. So we expect that when we do this test, the lead gen form is probably going to convert let's say 10 to 50% higher. But if it is significantly more than that, let's say conversion rate doubles or triples, that's my first clue that something on the landing page was getting in the way and you need to do some testing there. If it's not the landing page, though, it's likely the offer itself. Listen to Episode 10, where we go really deep into offers. And that'll give you some great ideas on how to try out new offers ideate, formulate, and create new offers. What if your ads and conversions are all going really well, but sales reports back that they're not closing these deals? Well, there's a lot of different things that are possibly out of your control here as a marketer, but maybe your sales team isn't nurturing right? Or, and this is a hard realization. You might not have the right product market fit, maybe your product or service that you're selling, maybe it doesn't solve a significant pain point enough that people want to buy. And no amount of snazzy marketing can fix that. Those are obviously much deeper problems, but see if you can isolate where they are and take off your marketer hat and put on your sales enablement hat and go and try to solve that problem, and that will earn you some significant quarterly bonuses. 24:06 Goal of agile management The goal of agile management of LinkedIn is really threefold. Number one, you want confidence that what you're doing is working and will lead to business. And this is hard, because in B2B, we oftentimes have these long sales cycles. And it doesn't make sense to keep advertising for a year and a half if you don't know for sure that there's going to be some revenue that comes from that. You'll want to have stopped advertising much earlier. So as a marketer, you're looking for shorter term clues that the traffic will convert into profitable sales. Goal number two is you want to keep fresh with your audience so that they don't get sick of your ads, your offers, or even your company. If you can stay fresh, your performance won't decline significantly. And this is fantastic because social ads of any kind really are a moving target because the same thing that worked two months ago may totally fail today. And that's just because of ad saturation. So do your part to keep things looking fresh so that you never get stale to that audience. And then Goal number three here, you want to identify the problems and inefficiencies of your account so that you can fix them early and they don't turn into something terrible later on. Okay, I've got the episode resources for you coming up, so stick around. 25:28 Thank you for listening to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Hungry for more? AJ Wilcox, take it away. 25:39 References I referenced quite a few other episodes in here. So check those out in the show notes if you haven't listened to them already. Episode 25 is all about optimization of your account, making it better when it's already doing well. Episode Six is on bidding and budgeting. Episode 10 is all about offers. And Episode 15 is all about benchmarking. To see where you stand if you're performing well, or if you're performing poorly. If you're new to LinkedIn ads, or if you have a colleague you're trying to train, check out the course, I actually did the LinkedIn Ads course on LinkedIn Learning. There's a link for that down below. But because it's LinkedIn Learning, it is insanely inexpensive, and it's a great training. It's the same thing that I charge $500 an hour for and would take me an hour and a half to train you and your team. And through LinkedIn, you can get it for 25 bucks. Or if you have a LinkedIn premium subscription, it's free. Take a look at your podcast player right now, especially if you're new, if this is your first episode. If so, congratulations. Welcome! And hit that subscribe button. We want to make sure you stick around and hear more awesome LinkedIn Ads strategies. Please do rate and review us on whatever podcast player you lean on. We're especially looking for stitcher right now. So if you happen to be a stitcher user, I would love it if you go and review us there because we only have one lonely one there. And of course, I'll shout you out for your review. As long as I know that it's you. So give me something good to say about you there. And like I mentioned at the beginning of the show, get your QA questions in, email us at Podcast@B2Linked.com. And actually, feel free to email us with ideas or topics you'd like to see us cover or questions, anything that you'd like. But especially I'm looking for good Q&A questions to cover or a whole Q&A episode. Hopefully, it's the first of many. So I'll see you back here next week, cheering you on in your LinkedIn Ads initiatives.

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The Power of Asking with Mark Victor Hansen | PREI 263

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 16, 2020 33:08

You know, Gandhi once said that if you don't ask you don't get, so what did I do? I went out and asked Mark Victor Hansen to come back on the show and he graciously accepted. So Mark is an inspirational and motivational speaker. He's a trainer and multiple times, New York times bestselling author. He is best known for the book series Chicken Soup for the Soul. Today, we discuss the Power of Asking. Why you need to ask and what happens when you don't ask and what happens magically, when you do ask? Download your FREE copy of The Ultimate Guide to Passive Real Estate Investing. IF YOU LIKE THIS PODCAST we would love if you would go to iTunes and Subscribe, Rate & Review our podcast. This will greatly help share our podcast with others wanting to learn. Thank you!

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Top Tips for Negotiating Divorce Settlement Agreements - Mark Bank and Sharon Klein offer some helpful tips for negotiating divorce settlement agreements

Family Lawyer Magazine Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2020 22:04

Podcast: Top Tips for Negotiating Divorce Settlement Agreements In this podcast, Sharon Klein, a Family Wealth Strategist and Trusts & Estates Attorney and Michigan family lawyer Mark Bank discuss top tips for negotiating divorce settlement agreements with Dan Couvrette, CEO of Family Lawyer Magazine and Divorce Marketing Group. Hosted By: Dan Couvrette, CEO, Family Lawyer Magazine Guest Speakers: Sharon Klein, a Family Wealth Strategist and Trusts & Estates Attorney, and Mark Bank, a Family Lawyer in Birmingham, Michigan Full transcript and video interview available at https://familylawyermagazine.com/articles/top-tips-for-negotiating-divorce-settlement-agreements/ Read the Transcript of this Podcast Below. Intro: Welcome to Family Lawyer Magazine’s podcast. This episode is on Top Tips for Negotiating Divorce Settlement Agreements. Your host of this episode is Dan Couvrette, the publisher of Family Lawyer Magazine and Divorce Magazine. His two guests are Sharon Klein and Mark Bank. Sharon Klein is president of Family Wealth, Eastern U.S. Region for Wilmington Trust. She coordinates the delivery of all wealth management services by teams of professionals and heads Wilmington's National Matrimonial Advisory Solutions Practice. Beginning her career as a trust and estates attorney, she is a fellow of the American College of Trust and Estate Counsel and chair of the Domestic Relations Committee of the Trust and Estates Magazine where she sits on the board. Mark Bank is a founding partner of the law firm Bank Rifkin in Michigan, and focuses on complex divorce cases in Michigan and nationwide. He is a diplomat of the American College of Family Trial Lawyers and a Fellow of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. Here’s the podcast. We hope you enjoy it. Dan: Sharon, what services do you offer and how do you work with family lawyers? Sharon: Wilmington Trust provides the full spectrum of wealth management services and through the matrimonial advisory practice group that I lead, we work with family law attorneys like Mark to provide a comprehensive suite of services for clients who have recently been divorced or in the process of getting divorced. And that could be everything from investing the settlement proceeds to acting as a neutral, impartial trustee to reviewing business valuations, to reviewing insurance, to providing family office services and also private banking services. And in particular, in the pre-divorce context, we have very sophisticated proprietary analytical tools where we can run comprehensive financial projections that take into account all assets. That could include private assets like a business as well as showing detailed cash flows, which take into account tax impact and also changes on the investment horizon. So, we could stress test the portfolio depending on what's happening in the investment landscape. And that typically gives attorneys wonderful information to take to the negotiating table in order to best position themselves and their clients at that table. And then post-divorce, we could use those same analytical tools to craft an investment strategy that's designed to ensure that a portfolio will sustain a certain lifestyle Dan: And Mark, what is the focus of your family law practice? Mark: My firm handles complex divorce cases, not only in Michigan but nationwide. The complexities that we handle, they're really two-fold. One focus would be on the financial end, and the complexities might involve business valuation, differentiating income from cash flow, understanding the tax consequences of a certain transaction, or understanding certain parts of an executive compensation package. The other part of the complexity would involve children and working out custody arrangements, parenting time arrangements with the understanding that there's no one size fits all when it comes to divorce. Dan: That's great. So Mark, how would you work together and when would you recommend this approach of collaboration? Mark: I think when it comes to divorce lawyers, in working with financial advisors, one of the most underutilized synergies in my particular industry, there are really two different aspects that would come up with this. The first would be while the case is going on. As a divorce lawyer, what I'm looking at is building a statement of net worth, understanding the cash flow for the client, and understanding that client's expenses. And working with someone in Sharon's industry, that person would be able to help me understand what passive income can be generated from the assets in this particular estate. And then also working with her and the client to understand what are the client's expenses going forward, what budgeting we need to do as part of the case so that at the end of the case, the income meets the expenses, and not only looking at it for a particular year but trying to take it out for the rest of the client's life if possible and making sure that the client's financial needs are satisfied long term. Dan: Sharon, can you describe how Wilmington Trust approaches the analytical analysis that Mark has referred to? Sharon: Well, I think Mark’s given a great summary of how colleagues could work together to best support clients. And I think that any analysis has to be grounded in realistic expectations. Typically in the divorce arena, it's very important that a pool of assets generates a specific level of income and that level of income can sustain a lifestyle for a period of time or the client's life. And that leads to the question: how is it possible to sustain a portfolio given a particular set of cash inflows, which can be alimony, can be child support, can be a salary, and other particulars like living expenses, taxes, educational expenses. So, the analytical tools that I've been describing, they project the cash flow on a year by year basis as my access. Or you could plan out way into the future and have a year by year breakdown of what to expect. And as I mentioned, this typically provides an attorney negotiating a divorce settlement agreement with wonderful information to leverage to best advantage for their client. Dan: So that sounds very necessary and very thorough to me. Sharon: Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, it's all about the data. It's all about making a case for what your client needs, and if you could show the data, which is sophisticated data, not an Excel spreadsheet, but data that is impacted by different market environments and by different needs and expectations of clients, you could really have a dynamic presentation that adds a lot of value to those discussions. Dan: So Mark, can you describe to me what the second part is? Mark: Well, the first part I mentioned was working with someone in Sharon's industry while the case is going on to plan for the future. But the biggest mistake people in my industry make is at the end of the case is they just hand the client a check and say, have a nice life. And that's not where it should end. That should be the halfway point. We put together a plan and now we need to make sure that there's somebody out there who can implement it. So, it's important to take that plan and sit down with someone in the financial services industry and say, how do we make this plan come to life? And that takes the transition from the divorce lawyer to the financial service industry and making sure that the cash flow that I was projecting is there for the client, they understand the budgeting, and that there's somebody there in the long term to implement the plan and look over the plan and make sure the client's taken care of. And this is something that a lot of divorce lawyers, in my opinion, don't think about. And they just get to the end of the case and say to the client, here's your money and have a nice life, and it really can't be that way. I personally think that's irresponsible and really the best practice would be to work with someone in Sharon's industry while the case is going on to do the planning and then at the end of the case to implement the plan. Sharon: Right. And I've actually seen Mark in action in that regard. So, it's not just advice that he's giving that he doesn't fully embrace. And it was wonderful to see Mark in action taking the client through the whole phase of pre-divorced, divorced, and afterward to show that he really cared about her and helped her move on with it. So, I'm a big proponent of Mark's advice and, as I say, I've seen him in practice, and it worked out really well for him and his client. Dan: It sounds like it's a way to do it. Mark: Well, in most instances, you're working with someone who has no experience in managing their finances, managing their money, doing their financial plan. And not only don't they have that experience but when they're coming to see me, they're scared to death about what their future's going to look like. So it's my job to be able to say there is a future after divorce and to be able to take the resources that they bring to the table, whether in terms of their net worth or in terms of their cash flow and be able to have it make sense to them and be able to show them what it's going to look like going forward. So, you can see somebody take a deep breath. When you start doing that, they come into your office and they're just scared of what's going to come. And to the extent that you can put together this plan or talk to them about how you're going to put together the plan, you can see somewhere to go. And they know there's somebody out there that understands what their problems are and then how to solve them. Sharon: And let me just add on to that because I totally agree with you. And oftentimes in my seat, I see people come to me and they've not been handling the financial side of a marriage. A spouse has been handling that, so they feel overwhelmed, they feel alone, they feel like they're not able to handle it. So, you have to take the time to educate people and to describe the process against the backdrop of what they're going through, and you have to be sensitive to where they are in their lives. But oftentimes when you do that, you actually see a transformation into a poised self-confident person who, although they're going through a very sad phase in their lives, they're actually glad that they had a chance to show that they can do it, that they've proven it to themselves. And it's very rewarding to see that transformation for someone who, even though they're going through a very sad time, was able to view the future with some optimism. Mark: But to be able to do this right, this synergy between the two industries is most important. There are divorce lawyers out there who just get started, but they don't understand anything about finance, so they can't say anything intelligent to the client to take the edge off. On the other hand, there are financial planners out there. Clients say, tell me what I need for the future. And they start putting together a financial plan without talking to the divorce lawyer and have any clue what the assets are, what the income is, and what the expenses are. And this really needs to be done together to put together the best long term plan for the client. Sharon: So, collaboration is the key. Well, just really to add on to Mark's comment, which is in sort of phase two post-divorce, there is so much that needs to be done in order to help clients move on with the rest of their lives. So, for example, all of their estate planning documents need to be reviewed because typically they all need to be updated to reflect new beneficiaries. Insurance needs to be reviewed, and oftentimes, as I was mentioning, one spouse hasn't been involved with the financial side of the marriage, and they may not even be used to writing checks. So, oftentimes we find that clients really want family office services. They want bill pay, they want advice about taxes and tax preparation. So, we help bring it all together so that they feel comfortable and so that they have all the advice they need to move on to the next chapter. This is critical. Dan: Sounds essential to me as well. Sharon, let's talk about trusts for a minute. Do you have any tips for dealing with a trust created during the marriage when negotiating a divorce settlement agreement? Sharon: Yes, absolutely, and there has actually very recently been a very significant change in the law regarding the taxation of trust income after divorce. Individuals can create trusts and transfer assets to those trusts, and those assets will be out of their estates for estate tax purposes if structured properly, but they can continue to own the trust for income tax purposes. And that's a so-called grantor trust. And you might ask, why would anybody want to give away assets and remain on the hook? And the answer is that's perfect estate planning because the individual who creates the trust pays the tax liability of the trust and relieves the beneficiaries of the trust from that tax burden. So, in essence, the trust is allowed to grow tax-free, and of all the estate planning techniques that we have in our arsenal, tax-free growth is the best of them all. And in actuality, the grantor or the creator of the trust is making a gift to the beneficiaries of the trust in paying those taxes. But the IRS does not consider it a gift. And that's why I say it's perfect estate planning. Now, the way it impacts the matrimonial situation is if spouses created a trust while they're married, one spouse creates a trust and the other spouse can potentially receive income from that trust. By its nature, that will be a grantor trust. The problem becomes when the spouses get divorced because grantor trust status is determined at the time the trust is created and it doesn't take into account the fact that parties get divorced. So, if parties get divorced and grantor trust status remains, it means that the person who created the trust will continue to be liable to pay the taxes on distributions received by a beloved ex-spouse forever. And that's a horrendous result, and obviously not a result that the creator of the trust would have anticipated. Until December of 2018, there was a section of the Internal Revenue Code, Section 682, which saved the day. And section 682 said in that scenario, if people get divorced and a distribution is made to an ex-spouse, the ex-spouse picks up that distribution in her income and it is not attributable to the creator of the trust. Unfortunately, as I said, the protection of that section has ended, so if people get divorced beginning in 2019, every trust that was created during the course of the marriage needs to be looked at by the matrimonial attorney to see what are the tax consequences of that trust. And note that the triggering date is divorce beginning in 2019. It applies to a trust created at any time during the course of the marriage. So, a trust could be five years old, 10 years old, and you could have this terrible tax result. So, it's something, and this is a great place for matrimonial attorneys and estate planning attorneys and investment advisors to collaborate because there are some potential fixes to this situation. But you really need collaboration across disciplines. One thing that's possible, and you have to be very mindful not to trigger adverse tax consequences, is terminating the trust on divorce and equalizing with other assets or perhaps modifying the trust and again, equalizing with other assets. Or perhaps including a reimbursement provision in a settlement agreement that reimburses the creator of the trust for the ongoing tax liability attributable to distributions to the ex-spouse. The point is though that if matrimonial attorneys and family lawyers finish the divorce and then say, we'll send you to your trust and estates and investment advisors to redo your planning, the opportunity to fix that skewed tax result will have been lost. This is something that needs to be addressed during the course of the negotiations, during the course of the divorce proceeding. Dan: So I know Mark wouldn't make that mistake. Mark: You're exactly right in the comment that you made. I'm working more and more with trust lawyers every day while these cases are going on, part of my job is to look at the assets of the parties and decide what's a marital asset, what's not a marital asset, but separate from what are the assets of the parties. There may be something that somebody says, that's not one of our assets anymore because it's an irrevocable trust. And something that's an irrevocable trust in most States is outside of the marital estate, and it's not divisible by the court incident to a divorce. So, one of the things we're looking at is if there are millions of dollars in the trust that may be outside of the estate, was there any element of control that was retained by either of the parties that may bring that asset back within the marital estate? And frankly, I was working on a case not too long ago, and I happened to read Sharon's article on the change in the tax law, and that triggered something and I said, wait a second, the spouse having to pay the tax and perpetuity going forward, that's an element of control that we need to look at. And I don't know yet whether we'll be successful in bringing that into the marital estate, but the idea wouldn't have been there without working with Sharon on that particular issue. And because of that, I've been working more and more with trust lawyers every day. Dan: That makes sense. Mark, do you have any other tips for practitioners when negotiating divorce settlement agreements? Mark: Well, I could go on and on with that for days and talk about finances in particular provisions to include in the settlement agreement pricing. I think the single most important thing is managing expectations. And that's what lawyers don't do a good job of is telling clients what they need to know rather than what they want to hear. So often clients come into your office and say, I want this, I want that. And too often lawyers out there are saying, sure, no problem. I can get that for you. Rather than sitting back and managing the expectation from the beginning and say “let's talk about what's real and let's talk about what you really need to know”. Because when the client, when the lawyers don't manage the expectations, it gets a bad result for the client. Even if it looks good on paper, the client's not going to appreciate it in relation to what otherwise would have been achieved. And the way I'm always looking at this, the analogy I use is going to the optometrist's office. You walk into the office, and you think you see things clearly, and suddenly they start dropping these different lenses in front of you and they put one lens in and it looks a little different. They put another lens in, and it looks a little different and they put in the final lens, and suddenly you're seeing a whole different picture. And when a client comes into the divorce lawyer’s office, it's the lawyer's job to say, this is what the law is in your state. This is what this judge in your case might likely do. In this particular case, this is what's happened. In other cases, this is what happens with this particular lawyer on the other side of the case, and it really changes what the client's expectations may be at the end. And to the extent that a lawyer can manage those expectations from the beginning and paint a real result for the client, they're going to more satisfied clients at the end of the day. Sharon: I couldn't agree more. And actually, I think this sort of plays back to the analytics and the importance of having data to put things in context and running different scenarios. So, when you're running cash flow projections, you have to show a client several different scenarios to show what's possible. And the expectations have to be grounded in reality. Cash flow projections might have to take into account the cost of living adjustments, may be an expense that's going to be incurred somewhere down the line that you want to take into consideration there and then. You've got to make some assumptions about what the market is going to deliver. Some assets like retirement assets can grow. You also have to build in actuarial assumptions about taking required minimum distributions from certain assets once you reach the appropriate age. So, there's a lot of different moving parts, but I think if you show people the data in different scenarios and what they might expect, I think those lenses become a little bit clearer. Mark: And this goes back to what I was talking about at the beginning. A lot of times people come to me and they've already met with a financial planner who's put something together with just no clue about what the reality is. And the client comes in and says, well, you know, based on this, I need $400,000 a month and $20 million in my bank account to start. I'm like, that's nice, but you don't have that kind of money. And to the extent that a lawyer's working with the financial advisor or the financial advisor, if that's where the client goes first, brings in the lawyer, and they can work together. They can really manage those expectations from the beginning to create a satisfactory result where the client at the end of the day is proud of what their team accomplished. Dan: It certainly is abundantly clear to me that you combine knowledge of the law with passion and compassion for your client and that you're truly looking out for their best interests. And so, I think that's also why you think that you should bring professionals in throughout the process that can help, and not just try and handle it all on your own. You recognize it. You can use a professional like Sharon and need a professional like Sharon to truly do a great job for your clients. Is there anything else that you want to add to this conversation that we've missed? Mark: I would just add this final thought. I was talking about how at the end of the divorce case, that's only halfway through the process and it's important then to work with a financial advisor to implement the plan, but that's not necessarily the end of the divorce lawyer’s role. And I think it's important that there be annual follow up meetings with the entire team to say is the plan working? Do we need to make any changes to the plan? In some cases, we go back to the court and we can modify child support. We can modify spousal support in order to get more money if need be in order to make the plan work. And sometimes there needs to be changes made to the estate plan and to the extent the whole team can get together on an annual basis. It serves the client's best interest, I think in the long term. Sharon: I couldn't agree more. I think it's so important for the whole team to get together periodically to review where the client is because a plan is dynamic. It has to change with family circumstances, with the investment landscape, with other things that are individual to each particular client and getting together with a team of professionals, each of which is a specialist in his or her own area of expertise really means that you're bringing all the information necessary to best serve the client together. And oftentimes it's a matrimonial lawyer, it's a trusts & estates lawyer, it's the investment professional, it could be an accounting professional, but I think everybody needs to be on the same side of the page in order to coordinate all those different moving pieces for our clients. Dan: Well, you certainly have proven that to me here today. And, Sharon, I can't imagine anybody that would do a better job than you would in taking care of a client and their financial concerns. You lost me in many parts of the conversation, and I'm not disappointed with that actually. I like to work with professionals who know more than I do. And you certainly fit into that category. Well, both of you do. So, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure. Outro: This concludes today’s podcast. Family Lawyer Magazine and Dan Couvrette would like to thank our listeners for joining us in this episode. To learn more about our two guests and the services they offer, please visit Wilmington Trust’s website at www.wilmingtontrust.com/divorce and Mark Bank’s law firm’s website at www.bankrifkinlaw.com. This presentation is for informational purposes only and is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the sale of any financial product or service. This presentation is not designed or intended to provide financial, tax, legal, accounting, or other professional advice since such advice always requires consideration of individual circumstances. If professional advice is needed, the services of your professional advisor should be sought. There is no assurance that any estate planning strategy will be successful. The information in this podcast has been obtained from sources believed to be reliable, but its accuracy and completeness are not guaranteed. The opinions of the speakers other than Sharon do not necessarily represent those of M&T Securities, M&T Bank or any of its affiliates. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that, while this presentation is not intended to provide tax advice, in the event that any information contained in this presentation is construed to be tax advice, the information was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any matters addressed herein. Wilmington Trust is a registered service mark used in connection with various fiduciary and non-fiduciary services offered by certain subsidiaries of M&T Bank Corporation. Investing involves risks and you may incur a profit or a loss. There is no assurance that any investment strategy will be successful. ©2020 M&T Bank Corporation and its subsidiaries. All Rights Reserved.

Episode 8 Laminitis Discussion with Dr Mark Caldwell PHD FWCF & Wayne Preece FWCF

Lockdown Farrier Learning Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2020 66:21

So Mark, Wayne and myself sat down and had a discussion about Laminitis. Its an informal chat/discussion like you would have in the bar after a convention..... You do remember before Lockdown when bars were open, don't you ?...……...

discussion lockdown so mark laminitis preece mark caldwell

Episode 24: Make Change Work for You, Marc J. Bernstein, guest

Changing the Rules

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 15, 2020 21:13

Diane Dayton This is changing the rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.KC Dempster Good morning, everybody. Welcome to changing the rules. I'm KC Dempster. And I have Ray Loewe with me, the, he hates this, the self proclaimed luckiest guy in the world. You know, all through our lives, people have been setting rules for us. First it was our parents and then teachers, church. And as we get older employers and you know, the list goes on. And the rules are originally meant to control us, but usually in a positive way. They are trying to give a structure and guidance to keep us safe. But over time, a lot of these rules lose their relevance to us and they can become restrictive to what we want to do. And so this podcast is designed to help us build our own set of rules those that are important to us. And that work for us. We all need rules, but they need to be our rules. And when we change the rules to our rules, we become free. Free to be ourselves. Good morning, Ray.Ray Loewe Good morning. And I'm all for this being free to be yourself Stuff, you know, rules, rules, rules, there's too many of them. And you know, it's not bad enough that we have the old rules, we get new rules all the time. And that's one of the things we're going to talk about today. So, I have been studying adult, all my adult life, people that I call the luckiest people in the world. And they're there those people that you'll want to be there that the people that everything always seems together, they have an aura of luck about them. And it's not the lottery winners that we're talking about. It's the people that, you know, are constantly lucky, almost everything that they do turns into a golden opportunity. And I think it's because they make it happen. So 1let me set Kind of a definition of the luckiest people in the world that I've evolved. And I'd like to define the luckiest people in the world as those people that personally design their own lives. They take control of their own lives, and they live their own lives to the max. And to do this, they use a series of mindsets. And one of them is changing the rules. They don't mess around with rules, they, they figure out how to make them work for them. And our guest today, really, we're going to introduce three rules. We've introduced them before, but I think it's really important that we reinforced them again. One of the rules deals with change. And we've all been smacked by this virus. And all of a sudden, we were told you're not allowed to go out of your house, you have to stay home you have to be social distance. And boy did that throw a damper in the role of people who are out there trying to make a living.And I think that's one of the things that the luckiest people in the world have overcome. The second thing that they do is they always, always, always find a positive outcome in everything. And is because they're optimistic. It's because of the way they look at things. But uh, but they work at it to make that happen. And finally, at the end, they come back and they take everything that they've got, and they put it in a plan and they figure out how they're going to work with this going forward. So we're going to take a break in a moment and when we come back, we're going to reintroduce Marc Bernstein Marc has been on our show before, he's a semi regular, but he always has wisdom to import, impart, and he very, very definitely is one of the luckiest people in the world. So let's take a short break Taylor.Diane Dayton You're listening to changing the rules with k Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world. We will be right back with more exciting information.Ray Loewe Okay, Marc Bernstein Are you there?Marc Bernstein I'm here Ray.Ray Loewe Okay, so, uh, Mark, reintroduce yourself, I could do that. But there's nobody better to do that. Tell us what you do for a living. And then we'll get into your book and a couple of other things.Marc Bernstein Well, I am a financial planner that I prefer to call myself a fiscal therapist.And that name came from the book or the book came from what I do, but it's called The Fiscal Therapy solution. 1.0. And I find that I call myself that because what I do and what my team does goes a lot deeper than traditional financial planning. It really goes into really understanding our clients, really understanding what it is they value, what they want, what their attitudes are. about money and other things. And then once we know them starting to develop a plan. And the last thing we talk about our financial products, which, unfortunately is what the industry usually discusses, as the first thing,Before we go on real quick, can I make a book recommendation based on your introduction today? Sure. So I'm reading very slowly because I want to absorb it all call it and it's pretty well known called The Untethered Soul. by Michael A. Singer. And it talks exactly about what you're talking about living your own life, and finding your own path. And actually, the book that got me interested in that was the book prior to that. He actually wrote it later. It's like the prequel that he wrote, but I think it helps to read it first because it tells his life story, which is fascinating. And it's called The Surrender Experiment. And what he talks about is his life, which basically he was a hippie in the late 1960s and The early 1970s and he really just wanted to live out in the woods and meditate. And by pursuing his path, he eventually developed a meditation center which became a temple, which people started coming from all over the country, developed into a business. He ended up being the CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation.Little temple in rural Florida. And it's ironic, what's opened opportunities. It's a fascinating story. And he's become a speaker on the subject and he's a he's a great source of information for people that are looking to live their own lives. And as an inspiration lately,Ray Loewe so well, you know, I've I've known you for a long time and probably going on 30 years over here maybe longer than that. And, and I know you're an attorney, and I'll forgive you for that. Okay, so attorneys are meant to deal with rules. I've never known you to be a rules guy. Really, I think you've always been able to take a look at the rules and figure out how to make things happen that you needed to make happen, to feel happy to be yourself. And we got hit not too long ago, you know, I remember the last time I met you, you know, we met because you were out on the road, you were out seeing people and, and now all of a sudden we have social distancing. And we can't do that anymore. So, so how did that strike you when it happened? And then we'll talk about what you did about it.Marc Bernstein First of all, I have to clarify, I'm a lawyer. I'm not about breaking law, but I am about changing the rules.Ray Loewe Like a KC Dempster line.KC Dempster Yeah. Well, I was married to a lawyer so I kind of know that stuff.Marc Bernstein Well, and it's also good as a financial planner not to be breaking any laws too. But changing the rules is a whole different story. So how it hit me...So like many of us, you know, all of a sudden I was I was actually visiting my son in Denver, knowing that travel might be restricted soon. It was May the 13th I think when I went out there, and on the way back, I realized that the whole world had changed in about four days. And that we were we were get ready to get shut down that the office was getting shut down. I got into my office once for about an hour before it got shut down. It's still closed. We're not opening my broker dealers not opening our office again until at least September. Wow, I have a feeling it could be longer. I have a feeling we won't be earliest we'll have clients in our office, which is how most of the way you build your business and it's the way I don't mind. People coming in the office. The earliest I think will be January to be honest.I've also just to describe that a little bit. I've been a frequent guest on internet. Television shows the last few weeks I have an agent and I've been on some shows. They picked me to speak on the dynamics of the changing commercial real estate landscape. And it is changing drastically. I mean, major companies are saying, you know, 80% of our clients are going to work from home now. I mean, so so that was the first thing that struck me, I've never worked from home. I never really used a computer very much, you know, for personal use.But, you know, I've always had staff that takes care of, you know, I work on my unique abilities, and those are bringing in business, working with clients doing the planning, and creating strategies and then helping them come to decisions to move forward. Those are the things I'm good at. I'm not good at working computers, I'm not good at, you know, staff, you know, managing staff, and those are not my greatest strengths. So, all of a sudden, I'm home and we got to figure out how to keep our employees motivated. We've got to figure out, I got to figure out how to use the thing that's sitting in front of me. Now I'm very advanced, you know, I'm standing up right now. I have have one of these desks that you can raise the level and I can, you know, I can, I figured out Skype today and figure it out. I'm a Zoom Meister, you know become really good at Zoom so so number one it's been a blessing because think of all the new technical capabilities I have that I didn't have before.So one of the things I realized, so my partners and myself decided that for the first month, we were going to do nothing but keep in touch with our top relationships and just see how they're doing. See if we can support them in any way because it's, you know, it's a really, really tough time for people. And that's what we did. The interesting thing is just by doing that business opportunities came our way number of business opportunities came our way without trying. The next thing I started thinking about was like, that's great, but how do I bring in new business because a certain percentage of our business each year is bringing in new business. Hello, we have a nice base of clients, but that's important as well. Well to bring in new business. So, like, how are we going to do that? So we've been starting to have all these zoom meetings with clients. But now it's a little different when you're, you know, when you're meeting someone for the first time and you're trying to connect on zoom, it's not quite the same thing as connecting with someone. Like I see you guys on my screen and it's easy because I've known you both for many years. So how do you do that? So I came up with this idea and Ray has been Ray and I have talked about and he's been a, you know, an influencer with me on this, that I'm developing a series of webinars right now titled Financial Leadership in Turbulent Times. And we're, um, that was I left my phone on that was Siri talking to me.So, we, um, and it's and it's really a series of ideas and exercises around. What is your vision now versus what it was three months ago? ago I had to go through this myself, or nothing I'm saying six months ago. So to go back to December of 2019. And now it's six months later, well, seven, almost seven months later, but june of 2016, what's changed and what shifted for you? A lot has shifted for me.I, you know, Ray knows my wife and I have talked about where we want to live, we're now our kids are isolated. They're living in different cities. And we're, you know, we're living in this big house by ourselves and say, We don't need this anymore. We just came from our Mountain House. Um, and we're, we decided to sell that and in fact, it's getting sold because we don't get up there enough. And we're thinking about different things we added on to our Vacation Club points because that's more relevant now. Where Where can we meet our kids and spend time together? So our lifestyles changing, things are changing.A lot of my business and and I think ultimately all for the better. But a lot so my my view of what I want really is changed. As Ray said I was traveling a lot I was intending to do more traveling more speaking. And I decided I don't really think I want to do that as much I I'd rather do what we're doing right now I'd like to do podcasts. I like to do more webinars I'd like to do. And I'd like and the other thing is I'm adding a team of people to bring in business, just kind of what I did for many years in my business. And I'm and just by thinking about it, I've had people come to me look from out of the blue that are that are interested in and that's their strength. So it's, you know, it's it's really it's almost, it's amazing in two months, how much has changed, and I think it's all going to be for the good.Ray Loewe You know, I'm looking forward, But I I'm looking forward to this this workshop that you're doing which I will be on and and I'm actually bringing a friend line with me. Okay. And it's probably going to turn out to be a new client relationship for you at some point in time. But, but the whole idea is, uh, I've had time to think, just like you have. And when you have time to think, you know, this is what we've never done before where everything was moved, move, move. I love the idea that you're rethinking where you want to live. So you actually now are spending time talking to your spouse? I mean, isn't that a good thing? Right? A lot of times. Yeah. And, and so it's intriguing, and it's exciting. So. So here you are, you've got hit with a change. you've figured out some creative ideas about what has to be done. What's your vision going forward? I mean, you kind of gave us a little piece of it here. But you said you're going to be off the road a little bit more than you were before.Marc Bernstein I think a lot more I what I decided is I love to travel. But I love to, you know, traveling isn't easy these days, you know, and it's it's only going to get tougher with what's going on now. So what I realized if you have to get somewhere for business, it's a lot of stress. But if you're going on vacation, I said this to my family a long time ago, we have delays if there's a flight delay, whatever happens once we've gotten in the car, we're on our way to the airport, that's our vacation. So if the planes late, it's like big deal, you know, or something happens big deal and it doesn't affect you. So I decided I do want to do more traveling but for pleasure, not for not so much for business anymore. You know, all these conferences I had like four or five conferences canceled between March and June. And be honest with you, I didn't miss any of them. thinking, you know, I'm thinking Am I gonna continue doing those in the future.We you know, the interesting thing is that way you feel is probably how your clients feel too, isn't it? Well, I'm starting to see that, you know, clients are very happy to connect on zoom, they don't have to drive to my office, we don't have to drive there. You know, it saves a lot of time. There's a lot of advantages to to what's coming out of this and the way we're operating. Sure, I want to be belly to belly with people from time to time, I want to see them, you know, get together because I care about them. And, you know, in those days are going to return we're going to be able to do that. But I think we've gotten in the habit. Now we could say to people, would you rather come into the office? Or would you rather do it on Zoo and a lot of like to keep things short? everybody's busy. So I think it's a lot easier to not make big events out of things and just do you know, technology's becoming a big aid and being more efficient with our time and which makes us better able to do the other things we want to do in our lives. So I think it's all great. I really do. Cool. All right. Well, unfortunately, we're getting near the end of our time, boy, time flies.Ray Loewe fast when we're done, you know, and again, before we close, I just want to remark, this is why you're one of the luckiest people in the world. And I really feel you are because you company, right? Well, you've taken the problem and you've turned it into a very positive thing and and not only are you revamping your life based on it in a positive way, but but I think the insights that you have as a financial advisor, follow through with this because our clients are thinking the same kind of thing. And now you're going to be able to put their plans together in a more exciting, more personal way than you ever were able to do that before. I'm looking forward to this workshop with you. I will be there and let's continue to do some exciting things. And KC, let's decide what we're going to do next week.KC Dempster Okay, well Next week we're going to be on the podcast again. At this point, I'm not sure if you've told me who our guest is going to be. I look forward to that. Because, secret Yeah, I love meeting these luckiest people. And I just want to remind everybody that the luckiest people in the world weren't born lucky. But they do live, exciting and fulfilling lives. And it's because they made the commitment to learn how to be lucky and they understand that you can't just make you know, make this commitment or do something once you It's a journey. So you constantly have to be reevaluating and looking at your life and figuring out what you need and what you want, and then finding out how to get there. And we have ways of helping people with that. So, you know, what do you think people should do to learn to be lucky and stay lucky?Ray Loewe Well, they ought to listen to our podcast because every week we have somebody like mark on and and all of the new podcasts going forward are going to feature people that I think are lucky People in the world. They have these mindsets. They're actually doing things that are creative and interesting and exciting in response to changes. In some cases, they're physically changing the rules, but never the law right mark. Never Never the law. And and we're getting excited for getting back in having our Friends Connection again. And that's one thing I don't want to not happen. A party is a party is a party. And when you're surrounded by a bunch of the luckiest people in the world, exciting things happen.And we've got some new books and courses coming out so So Mark, give us once more the final version. Your book that's out is called The Fiscal Therapy Solution. 1.0 available on Amazon.Marc Bernstein And I have a thought for you before we go. I have a personal trainer that we're training virtually now which is great. I don't have to drive anywhere. Zoom and yesterday he said yes. class because we have a class, but he manages to see everybody individually. And we have back and forth. And he said, is your day happening to you? Are you happening to your day? We have a good day, but you know, who's affecting whom there? Yeah. And proactive and not reactive every day now is, um, you know, is an adventure. And I think it's one of the lessons I've learned from this is make every day meaningful. You know, whatever it is your path, make sure that you're doing things to progress. I think human beings, we're gonna talk about this in the webinar, you know, are built to progress to move forward. If you don't move forward, you're moving backward. So how are you progressing every day in your journey, as you call out? Yeah.Ray Loewe Well, thanks for your wisdom as usual. And we'll be back next week with a new guest and a new topic. And join us, everybody. Thank you. We'll talk to you next week. Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a podcast design. To help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen.Diane Dayton Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topics on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

#10B – A review of the past decade in tech, the 2010s, and its impact on the world we live in

Tech Deciphered

Play Episode Listen Later May 27, 2020 40:27

We split this episode into two parts: in this, the second and final part (10B), we discuss the significant shifts in business models and the funding landscape that happened in the 2010s. We deep-dive into these business models, e.g. freemium, advertising/free at the point of consumption, subscription, and we give you the no-BS view on the fundraising landscape, what REALLY changed and what (mostly) stayed the same. Please also listen to the first part of this episode (10A), in which we discussed the macro-trends of the 2010 decade and the underlying technological tectonic shifts, including analyses of the OS, platform and product & application spaces Navigation: Introduction (01:24) Section 1 - A brave new world ... of business models (01:56) Section 2 - The switch in funding landscape (27:59) Section 3 - The end ... of the world, as we know it?! (37:38) Our co-hosts: Bertrand Schmitt, Tech Entrepreneur, co-founder and Chairman at App Annie, @bschmitt Nuno Goncalves Pedro, Investor, co-Founder and Managing Partner of Strive Capital, @ngpedro Our show: Tech DECIPHERED brings you the Entrepreneur and Investor views on Big Tech, VC and Start-up news, opinion pieces and research. We decipher their meaning, and add inside knowledge and context. Being nerds, we also discuss the latest gadgets and pop culture news. Subscribe To Our Podcast Full transcription: may contain unintentionally confusing, inaccurate and/or amusing transcription errors Intro (01:24) Bertrand: Welcome back in this , the second part of Episode 10, Episode 10B, we're still focus on the 2010s, that incredible decade that we spent some time discussing in Episode 10A and now, we are going to be focus on the dramatic changes in business model that happened, as well as the switch in funding landscape. For further reference, listen to the first part of this Episode, Episode 10A. Let's start today with dramatic changes in business models. Section 1 - A brave new world ... of business models Nuno: So software is eating the world, Marc Andreessen famously wrote, I believe in 2011 and the world was going to be basically not only fully digitized as software was going to entrench itself and disrupt every single industry. Part of that promise, I believe, was realized in the last decade where we have the advent of a lot of things that we discussed in episode 10A, but also I believe that the whole thesis around software is eating the world is not the full story. In some ways, the world got totally digitized, but the physical world didn't catch up. And one of the stupid examples I always give is in a world where, for example, we are going to have self driving cars, well, the cabin of a car needs to change because you don't need to drive anymore. So what is it going to become? Is it going to become an office, a living room, a bedroom? Is it going to be a flexible space or not. So Mark's comment I think is well taken. The comment that digitalization is going to overrule many industries. There is not any other moment, but the current moment in which we're in the midst of COVID, that would make that point. But I do think it missed part of the story. Part of the story is that the physical world will have to change as well. And it's very interesting that Marc just published a manifesto of sorts on how the world needs to change going forward. And he talks a lot about core infrastructure in that manifesto, which is, by the way, an exceptionally well written piece of text. But as I said, I think software wasn't the only part of the story. There is also a hardware and physical part of the story. Bertrand: Yes, totally. It's as you say, pretty interesting that he started the decade with this very famous article and is starting a new decade with a new article. I think he was definitely right on the first one. Software is indeed eating the world, but as you say, the physical world was not following up. The good news is that these days the physical world is...

covid-19 founder entrepreneur tech os software bs investor managing partner vc big tech 2010s tech entrepreneur marc andreessen 10b app annie 10a so mark past decade

Episode 044: St Abba Mark the 49th Pope of Alexandria

Book of Saints

Play Episode Listen Later May 17, 2020 5:04

St Pope Mark, 49th Pope of Alexandria (EDITED / RECORDED)On the 22nd day of the Coptic month of Baramouda we celebrate the life of St Mark, the 49th Pope of Alexandria.Mark was from Alexandria, and he was an honorable and educated man. The pope of Alexandria at the time, Pope John, ordained him a deacon for he was an eloquent speaker. His voice was sweet and all those who heard him rejoiced in him. The Pope handed him the administration of the papal place, and he did nothing without his advice. When Pope John put on him the garb of monks in the monastery, one of the elder monks shouted saying: "This deacon whose name is Mark shall, rightly and fittingly sit upon the throne of his father Mark, the Evangelist."When Pope John departed, the bishops unanimously agreed to choose Mark as the next Patriarch. He fled to the desert, but they caught up with him, brought him back, and enthroned him Patriarch on the 2nd day of Amshir, in 799 A.D..He tended to the church’s needs, and restored those that were in a ruinous state. He returned many of the heretics back to the Orthodox faith, healed many of the sick, and cast out many with devils. Telling them: "What happened to you was because you dared to partake of the Holy Mysteries with irreverence, so keep yourselves henceforward from the evil words that come out of your mouth."In his days, the Muslim Arabs conquered the Greek Isles, captured many of their women and children, brought them to Alexandria, and started to sell them. The Pope gathered money from the believers, and was able to pay three thousand Dinars to save and free them. He wrote for them bills of manumission and set them free. He provided those who wished to return to their country with whatever they needed, and those who wished to stay, he gave them in marriage and protected them. He restored the church of the Redeemer in Alexandria. But evil and possessed men came and burned it down. So Mark restored it again.When the Lord willed to give him rest, he became sick. He prayed the Divine Liturgy, partook of the Holy Mysteries, bid the bishops that were there farewell and then departed in peace. He sat on the See for 20 years, 2 months and 21 days.Lessons from this storyI think if I was to give a title to Saint Mark, 49th Pope of Alexandria, I would call him the restorer. Not just for his unwavering persistence in rebuilding the church of the Redeemer, but early on we read that he restored many to the faith. Some who had become heretics, while also restoring many back to purity.Restoration of anything requires patience and a tedious attention to detail. Many of us today have seen TV shows where a person is restoring a car, a house or an artifact back to its original glory. That is truly a patience and careful person. Sure the show’s glam over the tediousness of the tasks, as they do not want to lose their audience, showing only certain highlights until it is fully restored. But returning anything to its original glory can not be captured in a 30 minute TV show.I had an occasion to visit the vatican on a rare house tour. One of the rooms was displaying certain arts that were in various stages of restore. Paintings, sculptures, trinkets, frescos, etc. I asked the curator what the duration was, and he mused, pointing to one of the paintings “Not in my lifetime will it be finished.”St Mark spent his life restoring souls, just as the Creator gave His life to restore us back to our original glory as well.PrayerOh Father helps us always appreciate the many gifts you give us each and every day. Help us also appreciate the sacrifice you made for us and guide us when the time comes that we too may help restore someone back to you. May the prayers of St Abba Mark the Restorer, 49th Pope of Alexandria be with us all, Amen.

EC 01: Mark Stern

Entrepreneur Conundrum

Play Episode Listen Later May 4, 2020 3:59

Virginia Purnell:Welcome to Entrepreneur Conundrum with Virginia Purnell, where growing entrepreneurs share how they get visible online. Hi everyone and welcome. Today I'm talking with Mark Stern about how he builds stronger relationships to stand out in the marketplace. Mark Stern is a serial entrepreneur and founder of rust streak, digital and custom box agency and live online. Prior to entrepreneurship, Mark was a top ranked strategy consultant from the world's largest consulting firm. Deloitte fastest way to his heart is through barbecue and tacos and he lives in Austin, Texas. Welcome, Mark.Mark Stern :Welcome. Well, thank you. I'm thrilled to be on here.Virginia Purnell:I'm thrilled to have you too. So Mark, you've done some big things in the online marketing space and you've graciously consented to sharing with us some of the cool tips and tricks that you've used to become an entrepreneur and get visible in your space. So tell us a little bit about yourself.Mark Stern:Yeah. I'm from Alabama originally, but I was the guy who in a nutshell was told that there's this pathway to happiness. You graduate college, you get the dream job, you go back to grad school, you get the dream job, picket fence, and you know everyone is happily ever after after that. And I found myself, like I used to joke and say I was the poster child for that pathway to happiness, but it was 2012 that I had graduated gamete MBA from Duke and found myself $165,000 in student loan debt. And that's what made me pause and say, let me reevaluate the path I'm on to make sure that this is that path that leads me to fulfillment and happiness. And that kind of jump started my journey into entrepreneurship.Virginia Purnell:Wow. That is crazy. So what is the number one thing or the biggest thing that you do to get visible online?Mark Stern:The biggest thing that I do is collaborating with other people. I think the number one trap that entrepreneurs fall into is they feel like when they get started that they have to do it all themselves. So they lock themselves into a room and film products or create these programs that they think other people want. But they're not collaborating. So to me, the easiest thing to do to get visibility in the marketplace, start engaging others. When you engage others, it's so much easier to build content and, and it just helps really amplify your message because it's, your sphere of influence isn't limited by your own network. It starts to seep into the network of those that you start to collaborate with as well.Virginia Purnell :Awesome. Have you found certain ways that help with engaging others?Mark Stern:Yeah, there's a couple different strategies you can do. What I like to do, there's a couple of things I like to do. Virtual summits or virtual events where you create a virtual experience that you'll activate come lots of sessions, workshops, interviews around a common topic. And for me, those are so much better when you collaborate with other people to do it. So when you promote it and get loud about it and they promote it to, again, your sphere influence increases. Other things like for me, I like to evaluate where are the gaps in what I'm creating and who is really good at fulfilling those gaps. So I'll go and interview them, whether it's within my page, my Facebook group. It's just such an easy way to get quality information and quality inputs because you're not limited by the data points in your head. You can tap into people that that is their zone of genius. So those are just some of the things that I like to do.Virginia Purnell:Awesome. Thank you so much, Mark. Where can people find you?Mark Stern:Yeah, if you want to find me, you can always look me up on Facebook. Just search for Mark Stern. I mean, if you're interested in learning more about custom boxes, you can head to custom box agency.com or if you want to learn how to do virtual events, Rover method.com.Virginia Purnell:Great. Thank you again, Mark for this great interview. Thank you so much for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe and leave some love through a review and I'll catch you on the next episode.****Links to learn more: DistinctDigitalMarketing.comCustomBoxAgency.comRoverMethod.com

texas entrepreneur alabama virtual mba deloitte rover so mark mark stern

Episode 59: Covid 19 - Louisiana & New York with Paul & Mark

Fancy Face & Friends

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2020 61:10

We can't escape talking about or dealing with Covid19. Paul updates me with what's happening in New Orleans and Louisiana. According to Professor Gary Wagner of University of Louisiana at Lafayette, “If you look at the trajectory that we are on, and you go back and look at where Italy and Spain were at the same point in time that we are, we’re on a higher trajectory." What is Louisiana Governor John Bel Edwards doing? Paul talks about NOLA's shut down, Mardi Gras, lack of response from the White House, and working from home. Professor Wagner also said, “You look at where we are compared to where New York state was when they were at the same point in time, we’re on a higher trajectory than New York state.” So Mark from New York City, talks to me about what his company is doing with their employees, his dismay with the person in the White House, and life during a city shutdown.

covid-19 new york university new york city italy spain white house new orleans louisiana mardi gras lafayette so mark louisiana governor john bel edwards

480: Dr. Mark Milligan: Implementing Telehealth in Your Practice

Healthy Wealthy & Smart

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 23, 2020 59:24

Live from my personal Facebook page, I welcome Dr. Mark Milligan, PT, DPT from Anytime.Healthcare as he discussing how we can implement telehealth services into our physical therapy practice. In this episode we discuss: * How to set up a telehealth platform * How to perform an initial eval and follow sessions * How to bill (at least what we know right now) * The paperwork you need to start seeing patients today * And so much more! Resources: Anytime.healthcare Doxy.me Connected Health Policy/Telehealth Coverage Policies State Survey of telehealth Commercial Payers Telehealth Paperwork For more information on Mark: Dr. Mark Milligan, PT, DPT, is a board certified, fellowship-trained orthopedic physical therapist. He specializes in the intelligent prevention and treatment of all human movement conditions. He is a full-time clinician with multiple patient populations and is the Founder of Revolution Human Health, a non-profit physical therapy network. Helping others create the best patient experience and outcomes through his continuing education company specializing in micro-education is also a passion. His latest venture is creating the easiest pathway to access healthcare for providers and patients with Anywhere Healthcare, a tele-health platform. He is an active member of the TPTA, APTA, and AAOMPT and has a great interest in the pain epidemic, public health, population health, and governmental affairs. Read the full transcript below: Karen: (00:07): Welcome to the healthy, wealthy and smart podcast. Each week we interview the best and brightest in physical therapy, wellness, and entrepreneurship. We give you cutting edge information you need to live your best life, healthy, wealthy, and smart. The information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be used as personalized medical advice. And now here's your host, dr Karen. Let's see. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I am your host, Karen Litzy and in Karen (00:40): Day's episode. I am sort of re airing a Facebook and Instagram live that I did last Wednesday with dr Mark Milligan all about telehealth. So a little bit more about Mark. He is a board certified fellowship trained orthopedic physical therapist. He specializes in the intelligent prevention and treatment of all human movement conditions. He's fulltime clinician with multiple patient populations and is the founder of revolution human health, a nonprofit physical therapy network, helping others create the best patient experience and outcomes through his continuing education company specializes specializing in micro education is also a passion. His latest venture is creating an easy pathway to access healthcare for providers and patients with anywhere. Dot. Healthcare. This is a telehealth platform. He is an active member of the Texas PTA, P T a and a amped and has great interest in pain epidemic, public health, population health and government, governmental affairs. Karen (01:41): I should also mention that he is also on the PPS coven task force. So if you want to get the most up to date information on how the coven pandemic is affecting physical therapists in private practice, you can find that at the private practice sections website. It's all free even for non-members. All right, now onto today's podcast. Like I said, this is a recording from the Facebook live that we did last week. And in it we talk about what is telehealth. We talk about how to set up telehealth, how to implement telehealth, how to conduct a telehealth session for an initial eval or for a followup. We talk about how to get paid for telehealth and this is the information that we knew at the time. That was last Wednesday. Like I said, things are moving really, really quickly here. So the best thing to do in Mark says this is to check with your individual insurance providers, check with your state things are moving really, really fast. Karen (02:45): And of course finally we talk about answer a lot of viewer questions. So a big thanks to Mark and I think this is really timely and I hope that all physical therapists that if you're listening to this, that you can set up an implement your telehealth practice ASAP. Thanks for listening. So today we're talking about how to implement telehealth into your physical therapy practice. As we all know, the COBIT 19 virus is causing a lot of disruption in healthcare and we're hoping that telehealth can help at least mitigate some of that interruption for the sake of our patients, for the sake of our own practices and for our businesses and for our profession. So Mark, what I would love for you to do is can you just talk a little bit more about yourself, where you're coming from and why we're doing this interview. Mark (03:34): So Mark Milligan, Austin, Texas physical therapists board certified fellowship trained, but also for the last few years have stepped into a telehealth space and have anywhere healthcare, which is a digital platform for delivering healthcare. It's agnostic to provide her, so PTs, mental health providers, anybody that needs a HIPAA compliant platform to connect with patients. So the current situation is it's pretty mind blowing, right? We're seeing a, a world changing epidemic that will change the landscape of healthcare as we know it today. For several reasons. One is that people will be now exposed to a delivery of care method that they weren't otherwise are supposed to before. So telehealth and tele PT and tele medicine had been out there for a long time. Teladoc started in, in 1987, somewhere in there. So it's been around for a long time, but a rapid adoption of telehealth has really occurring right now for physical therapists. Mark (04:30): What we need to know and what are the most important things right now are how it applies to us in this landscape. How can we be the best providers to meet our patients? Demand to help quell fear, doubt and an anxiety for our patients as well as, as providers and our businesses. And so stepping into this space is, it's been a little bit overwhelming. It's been a nonstop 70, 96 hours really. And so everything that I say today may or may not be true and four hours or smart [inaudible] because of how fast things are changing. So yeah, I think that tees it up. You want to kick it off? Yeah, Karen (05:10): No, I think that's, that's great. That's perfect. So let's start out with, we got a number of questions from people from different therapists from around the country. And I think let's start with the number one question is how do you actually set it up? Totally basic one Oh one. So let's start with that, Mark (05:33): Right? So the first thing you have to make sure is that you have patients that want this. And right now everybody wants that, right? So patient adoption of technology can be challenging, especially especially generational. So the issue with in, yeah. Pre COBIT has been adoption by, by therapists and by patients just because of ease of use. Now it's a, it's a forced adoption. So now we're in a set up where we, where are going to want this regardless of whether or not they want it. So first thing is patient population. Second thing is you need to look at your business, right? You need to look at your patient workflow and your business flow. So you need to have the appropriate from a business standpoint, you need to have a liability to make sure that you're covered in the telehealth space. So in my experience over the past few years, almost every liability insurance cover, it doesn't see telehealth as a, is a different delivery mode for physical therapy. Mark (06:26): But with everything changing rapidly, it would be real. It would be highly advised that you contact your liability insurance provider and make sure that tele-health is approved as, as in your cupboard. All right? So that's logistics. Secondly, you need paperwork, you need onboarding paperwork for digital visits. You'll need a telehealth consent form and you'll need the digital release form. And if you're recording visits, you need to have a very specific form that that allows you to record patient visits. Some States don't allow recording some. And so you have to be very mindful of that. So onboarding paperwork, it's, it's good to have in fillable PDFs so that a patient can fill it out and then send it back to you digitally. Making sure that that transmission is is secure. You can also have E faxes, right? So they can electronically fax to you over a secure portal as well. So just basic things that we haven't really thought about as providers we need to adopt as mobile providers. Right. So, Oh, go ahead. Karen (07:24): I know, I was going to say, so when we're talking about who is the best, what is the easiest way for us as a clinician to get that paperwork Mark (07:32): Right? So they can email me. I've gotten a tele-health consent. I've got I've got that. So they can just email me at market anywhere. Dot. Healthcare. And I can send 'em I'm been sending that out over Facebook. I'm happy to share that with people. And of course you need to make sure and adapt it for your state in your practice. It's a word doc so you can switch out the logos and everything, but I'm happy to provide that for people. They can pass that that step. Karen (07:57): And then one more question on paperwork and things like that. So when we are calling our insurance, our liability insurance carriers, aren't there specific questions we need to ask them or like what is the best way to have that conversation with our liability insurance providers? Mark (08:16): Right. Just say in this facing time that we're starting to provide care digitally. Am I covered for providing telehealth as a physical therapist? Simple. Straightforward. Karen (08:25): Okay. And so you may already be covered in your current policy, it might be part of your current policy, you just don't know it and then you're not, is that then added as a rider to your yes. Mark (08:38): Typically it's a very inexpensive writer. Okay. Karen (08:41): All right. So before we set everything up, we get our liability coverage covered and we get consent forms, which can email to you or you can share them on under this post. It's whatever you feel more, most comfortable with or what might be easiest. And then we do what we got the paperwork covered. Now what? Mark (09:06): So you're sending that out to the patient. So they need to agree to be treated digitally. Right now it's really an interesting space. The CMS has waived temporarily a HIPAA privacy with when it comes to digital communication. I'm can't stress this enough that this is a temporary wave in, in the absence of mass abilities to communicate or HIPAA compliant platforms that patient that people are able to communicate via other means of non HIPPA compliant video software. So right now Skype and FaceTime are considered and what's the other one? Zoom and zoom and those well-known platforms are, are open, enable all those zooms just increased their prices yesterday. Yeah, so I would argue that you could use the, what's free and what's available right now in preparation as you prepare after this is over, you'll need to go back to HIPAA compliance. So in the immediacy video platforms are readily available across all. You cannot use public facing video platforms like tick talk or other things that mass put out your video. Okay. Karen (10:22): Instagram live or Facebook live. You can have your patient video, you can have your patient treatment sessions over live video, Mark (10:30): Right. That it means sounds, it sounds obvious, but you never know where people will do right by a group session. You can just do a giant group session. I'm going to train everybody on the East coast of America on a Facebook live. Karen (10:42): Yeah. Okay. All right, so good to know. So no one social media lives like we're doing right now, but for the time being during this outbreak, we can use face time, we can use zoom, we can use Facebook, zoom, Skype, Mark (10:59): Right. Totally. And you need to make sure that in your notes and documentation for your intake software or your intake paperwork, that you are waiting, that the patient is waiving their HIPAA rights during this time due to the COBIT outbreak and you are using this unsecured software and you will return to it as soon as possible. Right. Okay. This is a window. This isn't something that will last. And you need to note for your own CYA that you are, you acknowledged the existing coven scenario and that you will prepare for post that with, with my platform. Yeah. Yep. So technology on the technology side, it's really easy because you can plug and play as long as you get someone's if they have an iPhone or if they have Skype, easy set up, you can connect technology there. So once you get the form signed, you have the informed consent, the HIPAA, the HIPAA included waiver as well to sure that they understand that they are on an, they have to understand and agree to an unsecured network. Mark (11:58): Even though you can provide it, some people may not want it because FaceTime, that's all easily hackable. Right? So so they may not, or may, they may, they may not want to agree to that. So just have to be transparent with them in the, in your services. Right. So once you get that, I mean, it's really a matter of getting the patients, depending on your system, everybody's so different. So if you're, if you are a concierge PT and you're practicing out there for a fee for service cash base, you handle all your own scheduling when it comes for their time, you just flip them and you just call them on FaceTime, right? You collect their face, their number and you connect that way and you do your treatment, which we'll talk about in a bit, some other scheduling systems. You may have to, you know, type in a telehealth visit and your scheduling system or have some type of a demarkation for a telehealth visit versus an in person visit. Mark (12:47): And so work with your scheduling software, work with who you work with in order to make sure that that's appropriate so you can have the right amount of, or the right type of scheduling so you know where to go and what to do and how to bounce it. A billing, again, for the concierge practices out there, this is fee for service. Tele-Health doesn't take as long as normal to as normal PT. So I have my hourly rate broken down into 15 minute increments because it's roughly about 15 to 30 minutes. Is it an average tele-health followup evaluations in the last 40 to 50 minutes? But it just completely depends. So fee for service, it's really straight forward. You just charge per time, per minute, dollar, dollar, dollar, $52 a minute to 15 minute depending on your price point. Karen (13:29): Okay. All right. So now let's get into, so knowing how to actually set it up. So we've got a lot of these different things. What are some other platforms? I know anywhere. Dot. Health care. Doxy.Me. Mark (13:46): Yup. Doxy.Me co view. So anywhere. Dot. Healthcare is the platform that I created. It's straight forward. Right now I'm offering you a $10 a month, unlimited use for anybody for three months while onboarding everybody. So to, to help people get to see patients doxy dot. Me actually has a free version where that's a, a room where people meet. So you can actually sign up. The patient is sent a link, they click on a link and it drops them right in a meeting room. Super convenient, super easy. There's no bells and whistles and it's free right now. So you can do that. I think a couple of other platforms I've seen throughout the Facebook live of Facebook groups that I'm in a few platforms are pushing out a free entry level software right now. So it's everywhere. So I think Karen (14:31): We'll use G suite Mark (14:32): D suite, right? So G suite, if you have a BA with, with Google, you can use Google meet. Right now actually with the, with the HIPAA waiver that's happening right now, you can actually use Google hangout. That would be another appropriate thing to use as long as the other person has the G suite or Google doc, a Google suite downloaded on their computer. So there are lots of, there's literally lots of options now there, there are other companies that offer other features, right? As you get into anywhere that healthcare, not only as a platform, but also as a billing feature and a scheduling feature. Doxy dot. Me if you upgrade to the higher levels, has a scheduling feature, a messaging feature, all types of stuff. So it really looking for different platforms. You need to be, do your due diligence and test them out to see what fits your practice best. I mean, some, some have exercises that are completely a part of the package that you can just have an HTP that sends right out from the program. Some have an actual, a range of motion measuring system so people can move their arm or their body in front of them. The then they can actually measure range of motion live on camera, which is pretty cool. So it just really depends on the need for your, your practice and also the practice size. Karen (15:44): Got it. Yeah. Okay. So that's a lot of options for people going from free to low priced too. Mark (15:52): $200 a month for co for HIPAA compliance zoom. Karen (15:55): Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So lots of options there for people. So we know we need some onboarding paperwork and we need to call our liability insurance carriers to see if they cover telehealth. Presently. And if they don't, then we need to ask them to put an addendum on and you can, they can do that immediately. It doesn't take like 30 days for that to happen. Right. Should be immediate. Okay. And so once we have all of the right paperwork and everything we decide what platform we're going to use and you just gave a whole bunch of different platforms that people can use. So all of those platforms are pretty easy to set up. And like you said, you send a link to the patient, they'd drop in and boom, there you go. And at this time we can use Facebook and Skype and, and not Facebook, sorry, Facebook. We can use Skype, regular zoom face time, all that. Okay. All right. Now Mark (16:58): You may need other equipment though. You may, depending on the situation you may need. So some people, a desktop versus a computer are versus a tablet versus a phone all matter, right? So a desktop computer tends to be really well for you to have good communication and see the patient really well. But it's also very challenging for me to move my desktop to show somebody how to get on the floor and exercise, right? So the part of being a a digital physical therapist is that you have to be able to move and your equipment has to move with you. So some people use, I, you know, some people use a selfie stick to demonstrate exercises, right? Some people have one of those little iPhone holders that can be multiple or wrap around something so they can have different angles or show people at different places. Mark (17:41): So understand that desktop can be good for this face to face interaction and the, and the immediate subjective interview. But maybe moving towards the objective exam or, or showing the exercise parts you may want to find or have a different device that's more mobile. So just thoughts for that. And you also need to think about your area or your headphones, your microphone and your lighting that can all add or take away from the experience of the digital experience. So making sure that you have those things. I use, I'm old school. I just use the old wired ear buds. They, when you're on the computer a long time, the wireless can die, right? And then all of a sudden you don't have new headphones. So I'm always a fan of just good old fashioned things that won't die on you after a long day of work. Mark (18:26): So something to think about. You also may want to get a tripod to hold up your computer or you can get a standing desk. So there's lots of options in that space. But also you have to be considered for your backdrop. I love your backdrop that you have there in New York here and with the, with the cherry tree, that's all. It's very Boston's. That's awesome. I just have a plain white wall. Just be mindful of the environment that you're delivering this care in, right? You don't want you to be distracted. You don't want the patient to be distracted. You need to connect with the patient. Some of the key things that you need to think about are the connection that you're going to have with a patient. Something you can do easier face to face. It's challenging to get the connection and to have the emotional connection with the patient by a digital care. So setting up the environment for not only you to feel safe and, and that you feel comfortable that you're, no one's going to bust in, but also your patient needs to feel safe in that space too, so they can communicate to you in a free way that their patient information isn't being broadcasted to other people as well. So backdrops, microphones, computers, tablets, all have to be taken into consideration while you're doing this, while you're doing this intervention. Karen (19:32): Okay, thank you. Those are great tips. How about cats that could, that could help or hurt you. Right? People love a cat. Great. If not, it can be a problem Mark (19:44): Or at least they're not allergic to it. They're alerted to it. It doesn't matter. Right? So Karen (19:47): Right. So pets can help or hinder, just kind of depends. Okay. So we've got, let's say now everyone has a better idea of how to set it up. And then the next question I got was how, Oh, they said this is great. Sound isn't great. I don't know why this sounds not great on, on Instagram, but, well, I mean it's going to be out on it as a podcast as well. So we'll, you'll be able to hear full sound tomorrow. At any rate, I dunno what to do. I could get my earbuds, but as we just said, what if they time out on me? Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about let's talk about how do you, what was it? How did, Oh, how do you actually execute a session? Mark (20:40): Yeah. So once you've got somebody on the line, once you've got a patient in front of you, right? We know from our PT and our PT exam that about 80 to 90% of your differential diagnosis occurs in the subjective. So you go back to your old way of being, you shut up and you listen to the patient. Right? So, you know, so this is also assuming that you're doing an evaluation via telehealth, right? So most people at this space have patients that they'll flip from brick and mortar or in person into telehealth. So that's a different beast, right? So that's followup. That's exercise progression. Those are obvious things, right? That you're going to show them. You're going to talk them through their progression and talk to them about what they need to do next. Maybe show them a few new exercises when you're, we're, we're going to get, what we're talking about right now is the new patient that you'd never met before and what, how do you gain information to get them treated? Mark (21:33): So subjective is key, right? You need to have your differential diagnosis hat on. You need to ask the next best questions, their intake form. You should have looked over, created your hypothesis list and make sure that you have a good idea of what you're trying to discover. It's your responsibility as a provider. I know it's written in the Texas legislation that if you, if the patient is not appropriate for digital care, you have to get them to an in-person provider, right? So doing your, you still have to do your red flag screens, you still have to do your due diligence and your differential diagnosis and make sure the patient's appropriate. Right? This is, you have to consider a digital visit to be no different than an in person visit. You have to take every precaution that you would take. I'm minus taking vitals unless the patient has their own, you know, portable, vital kit. You're gonna have them do that. But you have to take every precaution you would from an initial evaluation perspective as you would in a digital space. So going back to forms, you also have to have your intake form and consent to treat in there as well. That needs to be signed off as well. Karen (22:31): So the, the same sort of forms that someone would have if they were coming to you or if you're like a mobile practice like me, you have them sign that initial paperwork regardless of whether you're seeing them in their home, in your clinic or, or via telehealth completely. Mark (22:48): This is, you cannot be this any differently. Right? So take it, having all the consent to treat forms, signed all your intake paperwork done, differential diagnosis, red flags, you know, your three tiers. Are they appropriate for physical therapy or are they a treat and refer or they refer. You have to have that, you have to have that hat on. And so if they're presenting with sub with symptoms that aren't musculoskeletal and presentation, you need to be mindful of that and get them to the approved provider, right? So you have to be a triage at this point. So once you get through and determine their appropriate for intervention, you have to get your thinking hat on, right? This is where, this is where things change. And as a mobile PTM, I know that you have walked into somebody's house and been like, huh, how are we going to do PT in here today? Mark (23:32): Or you have to completely be a problem solver. Think about being a problem solver on steroids when it comes to digital health. Right? Because you didn't have, at least in someone's physical environment, you can see what they have available. Right? If you treating me right now, all you would know is I'd have a white wall behind me. You don't know what chairs I have. You don't know what equipment I have. You don't know anything that I have. So asking them about what equipment's available is important. I take all my patients, depending on what they have, if they have, my most common thing I treat is, is back pain. So most commonly about 20 to 40% of patients, that's 20 to 30% of patients will fit into some type of directional preference when it comes to low back pain. So I take them through an active range of motion our digital active range of motion to see what exacerbates or relieves their symptoms. And if, and if repeated extensions and standing it relieves their symptoms, I go why? Clear out other things, but I go right into treatment. Right. So you can use progressive movements, repeated motions right in your treatment from the get go the same way you would do in the clinic. Mark (24:35): Some of them prior, Karen (24:36): It's New York. I don't even literally grown even here at anymore. It's just did with something there. Is there the engine going up, I don't even hear it. Anyway. Mark (24:46): White noise. White noise. Yeah. So you have to go through your objective range of motion in your objective measurements just like you would in home or in the clinic at home. So knowing your physical exam and having a musculoskeletal screen is super important. So if I have somebody with radiating arm pain that I'm treating, where's my arm on my camera? If I have somebody with radiating right arm pain, I'm going to take them through cervical active range of motion. I've actually even had people do over pressure to themselves. Right. To see, I've had somebody to do their own spurlings to see if it's ridic. So you have to get really creative teaching someone how to do a UNL TT a on camera is because you have to back up. Right? That's another thing. You have to have visibility and you have to have the ability to see what the patient's doing and also correct them while they're doing their motion. So I take my patients, do as many physical exams that they can do on their own without, without me being present to do it. Karen (25:45): Yeah. So I think it's important to note cause my good friend Amy Samala said, can you do this for brand new patients in your practice or is this just to be used for existing patients? So I think Amy, I think we're covering that right now, that yes, Mark is sort of taking us through how he might do an initial evaluation with someone via telehealth. Mark (26:05): Totally. Totally. Now I think we should probably circle back to billing again and payment. I think we, we've, Karen (26:12): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's definitely talk about that. And one other thing that I, I want to make people aware of, Mark, is how using you want to have space. So not only you want to make sure that not only your patient has space or depth, but that you do as well as a therapist because you may need to step back to show them something and then come closer. Mark (26:33): Right. And I've I often, so I have a flat couch in the back, so I have this couch that's right behind me so I actually use that. I pushed my chair of the way and I show repeated extensions and prone. It's a six or seven foot long couch and I show double needs to test and I sh if I mirror exercises for patients. So you cannot do everything verbally, you can't. Could you imagine telling somebody, okay, I'm going to walk you through a double a single knee to chest with words only. It becomes extremely challenging. So you get up and you move. I just hop on the couch. I'm like, all right, so you're going to lay on your back. You'll grab both knees. You see my hands on the outside of my knees. Knees are slightly apart. We're going to pull that all the way up until you feel a big stretch in your back and I show them. Mark (27:13): I walked through the exercises with them. Same thing with, same thing with nerve glides, right? If I'm doing a U L T T a I'm going to say, I'll bring your a shoulder all the way up. Like you're going to put those little, or you CC that you're going to put the little ion right and then you're gonna lift your elbow up and see if that changes it. Right. And so you have to walk them through. It's easier for them to mirror you than it is to say, okay, you need maximum shoulder flection with external rotation. NOLA deviate. Like you can't do that. Karen (27:39): Yeah, we know jargon doesn't work. Yes. You can never say that in an NPR. If you are face to face them, you would never just sit there with your arms folded and be like, okay, flex your arm to hear externally. Like if you just want to do that, you wouldn't do it. I think it's important to know that we can still certainly in well versed in strong verbal communication in this space. Oh, that's nice. From work. Yes. Or there was a delay. Oh, okay. So I think we're good. So Amy said, yes, sorry, there's a delay. She's all the way in New Jersey, so forgive the Jersey part. Yeah, New Jersey. Okay. all right. So I think people get an idea that yes, this is how you can set this up. You just want to make sure that each of you have enough physical space to do everything that you want to do. That yes, you can do your initial evaluation. It's all about the subjective, in my opinion, in that initial evaluation anyway. Definitely. and then once you see them for the initial evaluation, as you start progressing them, like you said, it would be like any other exercise progression you're just not putting hands on, but it can be done. Mark (28:51): Definitely. Definitely. If you think about the interventions that we do in the clinic that you can apply to home. So I work with people that you know, that don't, they may not have good balance. So safety is a, is a concern in that space. Right? So I talk people in a corner, I show them what it looks like to get into a corner with a chair in front of me or in front of my couch or the chair in front of me and teach them how to do single leg stance while having my fingertips on the chair. Right eye. You have to physically show people what to do so they understand that better. And so like you said, it's about being able to show and speak at the same time, right? Because a lot of the field like nerve tension testing, a lot of times it's, you can feel the tension before the symptoms ever get there. Mark (29:34): So you have to educate somebody that has a really angry nerve that's a, it's a hot nerve and say, look, we're just going to take this up until you barely feel it. Right. We're just going to touch it. And then if you feel it there, just bring it back down. Right. You, you can't rely on your hands to feel that tension anymore. Not that we can reliably feel it anyway, but we want to make sure that we prime the patient for success. Right? Communicate expectations. Like we're going to do some discovery today. We're going to walk through a lot of different movements to see what's happening with your body. See if we can figure out ways that we can help you feel better through movement. Cause that's what ideally what we're going to do, right? We need to make sure that we enable patients and make them feel safe and comfortable that we're going to help them. We're going to take them through this. We just need to, we need to communicate to that. This is going to be something that I should be completely comfortable with. Yeah. Karen (30:24): Perfect. All right. Now let's get to the part that everybody really wants to know about billing. Someone. let's see. Oh, Mark Rubenstein also New Jersey. He had kinda some of the same questions. No, I have nothing against New Jersey, New Jersey. So he kind of had the same question I had before we went live. He said but Medicare will only pay now for existing patients as per info yesterday. So this is the info, I guess on that evisit versus tele-health. So can you kind of give us, cause I know just for background, Mark is a part of a PPS task force and he is really being updated a lot. And I'll let you kind of talk a little bit more about that and, and how you are helping to work the billing aspect of things and the difference between an evisit and tele-health. Mark (31:20): Right. I'd like to first shout out to the PPS members, Allie shoes and the I and alpha are our lobbyist for the APA. We are meeting for hours daily and we are, so everyday we have scheduled calls on this task who have a task force. We're pushing out content on the APA plus the PPS site. So there are 18 to 20 people that are hard at work to get, to gather information, to interpret it and then to question it and then make sure that it's legal. Right. Because there's information that comes out that it's great information, but it may not be legal for us to do based on practice act. So there's, there's a federal level, then there's the, then there's the PTA level, then there's the state level, then there's your individual insurance levels. So there's a, there's so many different paradigms. It's not just a cut and dry situation. Mark (32:06): So right now, some of the biggest things that we're working on behind the scenes with this PPS task force are really are defining out what it means from Medicare as it relates to the visit ruling. So E visits technically are not telehealth. Medicare is not calling these eVisits tele-health. They're calling them eVisits because they derive them from the medical, from the MD coding as, as a bra, a brief and abrupt follow up to a situation where the patient is in an engaged patient. So imagine somebody who may not be feeling well after seeing, having a doctor's appointment just to follow up to touch. So the visit codes right now can only be billed based on time, so their cumulative time and there are three levels. The max level is 21 minutes to be billed one time over a week. And so you add all the time for one week and over 21 minutes is the third code. Mark (32:59): And that can only be a build a once every, well in seven one time in seven days. There is a question right now about whether or not that code can be repeated the next seven days. That information has not been gotten yet. We have not had a clear answer on that. So please be patient while we investigate whether or not that code can be repeated the next week. So right now, currently we are still working on whether or not now that these eVisits have come out, the question is now whether or not CMS sees us as telehealth providers, which upfront does it look like they do. But we still haven't gotten for Bay. We still haven't gotten the, the appropriate word from CMS whether or not we are. We are providing tele-health, which they said we're not. So we can assume we can assume anything. Mark (33:49): But so they said we're not providing tele-health, but we think they will. They won't include us in the, as a telehealth provider, which is extremely important because if they don't consider us Medicare providers, then we can, well, I'll wait about Medicare billing Medicare patients, we'll, we'll wait to hear what happens. I'll have to have an update on that. And so right now we are not approved providers for telehealth, for Medicare. And we can build he visits with an established patient that has to make contact through a patient portal to the provider to request their evisit. Now it's been clarified that you can notify a patient that they have the option of that type of care. You can tell the patient, Hey, you know, we're not treating people in person, but you do have the option for an evisit. Here's how you do it. If you choose, if you were to choose to have an E visit, you would go to this part of our website to our port, your patient portal and request a visit so you can prime patients to go utilize that service. Whether or not you can only do that for one week or multiple weeks, that's in question. Karen (34:52): Okay. And a patient portal is not Skype zoom face time or any of the telehealth platforms that is not a patient yet. Mark (35:04): Well, some platforms have a portal, some, so it has to be a patient portal. So it has to be a place where a patient can log in and request a visit. And so we're still also waiting for a clear definition of a patient portal. But for our understanding the patient, it's a place where the patient goes to get their information or connect or message their provider. Right. So right now that's still being clarified through CMS on the other private payer front and medicate well, so Medicaid is being rapidly adopted by payers all across the country. Right. So we've seen, I know Louisiana is about to release a wording today at some point. I know that I think Minnesota, I think that a few others have already, Medicaid has already blasted that inflammation and that are, that are, that there are approving and paying for telehealth or physical therapists, payers on a national level are all over the place. Mark (36:00): So if you are a, in the work provider, you need to call your payers and ask very specific questions and we have people working on this across the country. You have to ask them if your patient has tele-health benefits, you need to ask them if those benefits are payable to a physical therapist. So if a therapist is a PT, a paid as a payable provider of telehealth services, if they need any modification codes, right? So like an Oh two location code modifier, right? That needs to be asked and then what CPT codes they reimburse for. Okay. Right. So manual therapy is not going to be one, but neuro, our neuro they're ex their acts home care, self care, all of those codes should be available. And it just depends on the, on the payer and the carrier. Okay. I have a Google doc that we can link that I'm trying to collect that data from across the country. Mark (36:58): So people can have open access to it that I can send you that link here and it's on a couple of Facebook pages. But we're trying to collect that data so people can see because, and you don't put any reimbursable fees, don't breach your contracts, don't talk about a fee per schedule, but where you're scheduling fees or your fee schedule. But I'm just put whether or not they pay if it's parody, right? Some States out parody. So here's the kicker. Parody States doesn't miss it necessarily mean payment, right? And this is a, this is a very confusing, a very confusing thing. So somebody says, Oh, we have parody in the state so that, and then we are going to get paid equal in person as we do digitally. Just because you have parody doesn't mean to pay your pace for telehealth, right? They may pay for physical therapy, but they may not pay for tele rehab, right? Yes. Check. Karen (37:47): Why can they just not make this easy? Mark (37:50): Right? So you can have parody in a state and you could have a parody law and then the payer not even pay for telehealth. Right? So there's nuances upon nuance, on nuance. And in some States, some carriers have contracts with larger telemedicine providers and their members can only have telehealth through that tele provider and they may not have tele, they might not have tele PT. So then they had no tele-health, physical therapy option for that payer. Does that make sense? Karen (38:28): Okay, so I'm going to just do this. So for example, I'm just going to take a for example, and tell me if I heard you correctly. Oh one more thing. So Rina said, we're talking about the visits, that's all specifically for Medicare patients only the egoist. Yes, yes. Mark (38:46): As of now we have, we are unaware. I am unaware. I'll say that of any payer that's adopted the evisit policy and that's as of our Medicare Copa. Our coven call ended at noon today. So I don't know. That may change. Karen (39:02): Okay. So let's talk about your individual. Let's talk. Oh, somebody said, Oh Mark, can you bring your microphone closer to your mouth? But you've got the ear buds in, Mark (39:13): Right? So I have my phone a lot. Loose ear buds are going to the computer, but now you see if you can bring the microphone closer to your mouth, then they see my giant fivehead here and I'm like, I mean, how about if I go, that's fine. We'll do that. Karen (39:32): We'll do that. It's fine. It's fine. Okay. Oh, so here, let me just ask some, get some of the questions. So Kim wants to know, she's in New Jersey also. He lives in New Jersey, but her practice is in Brooklyn. How do we find out if our state has parody? Mark (39:51): So again, I, the, I will link you guys to the center for connected health policy and I also have a link to the parody in the different States. So I have links to both of those that I can give you, that we can add to this. Karen (40:07): Yeah, we can put that in the comments under this Facebook under the live here. Mark (40:12): So where, and so the, the commercial parody book is only 150 pages of nice, easy light reading. Where should I go for Facebook live? Karen (40:23): Just go, if you go to my page, just go to me and then you can put it in. You'll see, you'll see us. You can put it in the comment section or we could put it in the comments section. When we're done with the live, we can add it in as well. Mark (40:35): Oh, there we are. All right. So I'm dropping it in the, yeah, Karen (40:37): You can drop it in right now too. Mark (40:38): There's the parody laws. Here is the fact sheet on the UpToDate. This is a live document on what's happening in the world right now. As far as tele-health policies and procedures across the country. So those two documents should have a lot of information. But here's the kicker. Just because the state has a parody law doesn't mean that, that, that the payers have a policy that reimburses tele PT, Karen (41:08): Right? So parody and, and just to be very clear parody means because you, you can do tele-health because you see them in person. So it's like Mark (41:20): No. So parody only means parody only means payment. So parody means if they have a parody law and they both reimburse for inpatient physical therapy and for telehealth benefits, they paid equal. Karen (41:32): Say again Mark (41:33): If the, if the, if a payer say let's let's say blue cross blue shield, if that, if that patient has a blue cross blue shield policy and they have a physical therapy benefits and they have tele-health benefits that a physical therapist can provide, they pay equal. Right. Okay. So it's the same face to face as the say. So because a lot of insurances will the 75% or 50% of impersonal versus digital. So it's literally a payment equality clause. Karen (42:02): I see. Okay. Okay. But you have to call blue cross blue shield because they may not actually, that patient's policy might not include tele-health. Mark (42:13): Right. And then even if they have a parity law, you're not getting paid for it. Karen (42:17): Got it. Right. I got it right. It's okay. Kim. I hope that my inability to understand help you. Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Can hear Mark fine. I'm physic. Oh, Deborah joy Sheldon. She said, is there a particular language that needs to be included in the documentation? So when we document the visit, how, so? Let's say we know how to set it up. We have the visit, how do we document it? Mark (42:47): Right? So you typically documented as a telehealth visit. So there's no you, your billing will coat it with an OTU location modifier, but you need to denote specifically that it was a digital visit. Okay. Yeah, that's the, Karen (43:02): Because we just got a question on what's the location coding for telehealth and you just answered it. So Abby, I hope that that helps you. And [inaudible] can we skip insurance and just bill cash or has this new E health stuff messed that up? Mark (43:26): So that's unsure right now. So the visit has, it's not considered telehealth by early information. That's not considered to be telehealth. We are still not telehealth providers by Medicare. So that should not impact that. That's my, that's my personal uninformed or relatively informed opinion. Please don't take that to anybody else. We're still discovering that. And private payers still do not, are not adopting that yet. That we've heard of. And so you should, Mark (44:01): If you are currently billing or having people pay cash in there and they do not have coverage, then you should be able to continue doing that. Does that make sense? Okay. Right. I mean, you need to check your contract language. Where we get sticky is, is this considered a non-covered service by a policy? Right. So this is where the sticky sticky comes in. Okay. Is tele-health considered physical therapy just delivered in a different manner, not a non-covered service, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well that V that opinion varies. And so if it's a non-covered service for Medicare, you can, they can, you can charge cash for that service. Right? And so, and that also applies to other payers. Correct. So if, if your payer has a policy that considers telehealth to be reimbursable by PTs, you wouldn't be able to pay, have them pay cash. But if Karen (45:03): Your individual patient's insurance does not cover telehealth right, then can you charge the patient cash? Mark (45:12): I'm not a healthcare attorney. But we're doing that. Karen (45:16): Where the heck, I know she's on here somewhere here in Jackson. I know she's watching, I saw her log on, Karen (45:23): Come on or Jackson answer that question for me Karen (45:25): Or an answer that question please in the comment section if you're still watching if not, maybe we can ask her or care Gaynor through the APA might be able to answer that question. So again, that question is if Aaron's still watching is if your patient's specific policy does not cover telehealth, again we'll use blue cross blue shield. So they have blue cross blue shield, they do not cover telehealth. Can you charge cash to that patient if they don't have it covered on their policy? Mark (46:02): That is a good question. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think, I mean I, I think I know what my answer would be but I cannot speak as Karen (46:12): Brought any information to anyone or misleading information. So maybe that's something we can ask Cara Gaynor on Twitter. Maybe she can answer that or if Aaron is still listening, maybe she can pop that into the comment section at some point. So Mark (46:28): And having amazing people that are listening that can help. Yeah, exactly. Taking, cause this is a, this is a mad house right now when it comes to legislation and information. So it's all over the place and apparently so yeah, it's just all over the place. We can't information that was [inaudible] I did hear that. Some of the bigger things for Rhode Island and for Pennsylvania this morning, that the governor, the governor assigned legislation that would massively require all payers to pay all providers for telehealth. All right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. One other big question that comes up is location for these for, for billing. Right. And so the word from CMS is the, the, the POS code is the location of the billing practitioner. So in the case where remote services are rendered it does not matter where the corporate address of the billing provider is either, nor does it matter what the beneficiary's address, it matters where the services was rendered. That is where the biller is located. Okay. All right. So when that happened, Karen (47:43): Put that into like example. Mark (47:45): So when that happens, let's say yes. So if you are, New York has parody, right? Or you got to know you guys have compact revolution, right? Correct. I thought you did. So let's say you're a large provider and you have multiple States that you are in charge over that or multiple States. You treat patients and you're billing Medicare that the, the, the service in the, in the billing, in the service location code is the place where the provider is located. Karen (48:18): I see. So like for example, if we use something like Athletico like a big gigantic company or maybe someone like, I think Michelle Kali has some places in Rhode Island. I think she just went to Massachusetts, but the headquarters is in Rhode Island. So if you're a therapist in their Massachusetts office, you're using Massachusetts. Mark (48:40): No, you're using wherever you are and delivering the code. Deliver. Karen (48:43): Where do you get where you are? Okay. Mark (48:45): Okay. Yup. Karen (48:46): Okay. and then Michelle Townshend said, how does this work with EHR? Ours? Mark (48:55): Yeah. So eeh Karen (48:57): So she is looking at a separate telehealth provider from our EHR who also does our billing. Mark (49:04): Right. So EHR is, there's only a handful of the HRS in the physical therapy space that offer tele-health as a part of the platform. I think PT everywhere is a platform that has that has it built in. And self doc is another ER EHR that'll be live and in the next couple of weeks they'll have a platform within six weeks. But most of them are stand alone freestanding. So you just have to find the best system that are set up that can work simultaneously with your other systems. There's really no way to unless the company has an integration with your EHR, which the HRS don't like to integrate with people because that's patient data and it's a, it's a whole hot mess. So most of these are just freestanding side by side. So you'll have your EHR on one side and you're in your camera on the other. So you just do, and that's what I did with anywhere healthcare, it's just basic connection so you can document everything ever somewhere else. Okay. Karen (50:03): All right. And then Debra says, Mark, my state has parody related to my hospital being F, Q, H C I do not know what that means. Any insight on that? So what does FQHC mean? Any thoughts if not, maybe Mark (50:25): It's a federally qualified health center federally. Okay. So they have parody. I don't think I understand the question. Karen (50:33): Yeah. In my S my state has parody related to my hospital being FQHC. Any insight on that? Mark (50:40): Oh good. So she Oh, she said they have parody. Karen (50:43): Yeah, they have PR has parody. Yeah. Mark (50:46): I'm unsure on that. That has to parody is I've, I linked that doc into the live on Facebook. I can look up parody by state and by organization. Okay. Yeah. Karen (50:59): Okay. Let's see. Let me we already touched, so I'm just kind of, what paperwork do we need? We talked about that. Oh, what if you're not a Medicare provider? Gosh, all right. Dah, dah, dah. Oh, we are usingG suite and doxy.me. This is from,uKelly Dougan, I think. Yeah. But haven't started officially yet. We have an ABN and I wanted to have liability form as well. So those liability forms, that's something that we can, that you can maybe share also on this link here and people can make it their own. Is that by liability? Like the patient has to sign off on saying yes, I'm okay with having telehealth. Mark (51:51): Is that of course for me. Yeah, I would assume that what she's saying. Yeah. So I'll, I'll create a, I'll create a Google drive folder and drop a link in to the chat Karen (52:05): And then one other, we've got two other questions. So to clarify for service location code, so that you said that, is that like the OTU code? Right. Okay. If I or any of my PTs are in their own home while tele-health with patient, is she using her home address? Mark (52:28): Oh, that I can't answer that I haven't gotten, yeah, that would be a billing question. That hasn't been brought up, but I, we have a meeting tomorrow morning and I'll ask that question. Karen (52:39): All right, Kimmy, we will get to that. Mark (52:43): We're saying the PTs can just stay home and bill from there. But Medicare has specific guidelines on origination sites. And I know if origination sites apply to eVisits versus telehealth. That very question. Do origination, do originations, I'm writing it down so we can ask this to origination sites. Apply to eVisits. Yeah, cause that's, that's a game changer too. Karen (53:11): Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry. She said, sorry, I meant to say service location. Did you clarify for service location address? If I or any of my PTs are in their home while doing telehealth, do they use their home address or does she use her address? So Kim, like lives in New Jersey, her practice in Brooklyn. So that's a really good question. So, Kim, maybe we can get back to you with that answer. Mark (53:33): And is she a Medicare provider? Karen (53:35): Kim, are you a Medicare provider? I think so. We'll see. We're on like a 22nd delay. Mark (53:43): Yeah. So I'll ask, I'll ask service location for employees versus brick and mortar versus mobile provider. Karen (53:52): Perfect. And then Sarah Catman says, if you are licensed in more than one state, but only practice, may single state, can you only do telehealth in the state you practice in or can you do, hello, hello, hello. Telehealth and States you are licensed in. Mark (54:12): Yeah. So that's where it comes to state rules and regs and yeah. So everywhere that you have a practice reciprocity or you have a licensed in other States, as long as they, you are allowed legally to practice tele-health in that state. Yes, you can practice telehealth in that state. I mean it's, but you have to sit, you have to make sure to abide by the rules and regs when it comes to our the licensure compact of the rules and regs of the state that the patient abides in or they live in. Right. Cause that's just compact language. So like I can do tele-health and Missouri, but they don't have direct access. So I would still have to have direct access or I'd have to have a referral for that patient if I want to open Missouri. Right. So like example. Yeah. so I think, yeah, so we have to make sure that you abide by the laws of the state that the patient resides in. But yes, you can do tele-health across the country. That's the beautiful thing about the compact, right. Compact allows for us to practice across this country with with little, with, without a lot of that a lot of restraint or not restraint, but a lot of challenge. Karen (55:20): Okay, perfect. All right, so we're at about an hour, which is as long as I think people's attention spans are, and I think we have an apparently as long as Instagram will go live. So if anyone has any other questions, please you can keep adding them into this feed here and we'll try and get to them as, as best we can. Thank you Mark for dropping that stuff into dropping those links in here. And again, we'll get some of the, the onboarding paperwork from you and maybe can drop it in here as well, or you can point us to maybe where it's been put in other Facebook Facebook links. But yeah, everybody, you're welcome. You're welcome. And Mark, thank you so much. This was above and beyond. I think what you had to do but I think we all appreciate you so much because we're in a time where there's a lot of uncertainty and tele-health is at least a way to one, keep our patients healthy and moving and to kind of keep our practices going as best we can in these times because we don't know. Mark (56:38): Yeah. We don't know. Karen (56:41): Okay. Mark (56:43): Yeah, I think, I think, I think as a profession we need to remain calm and PT on, right? Like there's a lot of things happening right now. There's to be the, the future is unknown for us as a healthcare profession. All I do know is that it's going to be changed on the other end. This will no longer be an exception to the rule. This will be an expected method of care. People will, will now grow to understand that digital health is a real opportunity in every aspect, not just in, in telemedicine. So I think if I can say one final thing is just be prepared to adopt this and, and, and set up your systems for the long game. Not for this short, immediate, even though the immediate needs to happen. We have things in place like the waiver for using different platforms just to make it happen while it is, but set your practice up, set your systems up for a long game to provide digital care to your patients. Because that's where we're going to go. Part of it is so yeah, but be patient with each other, love each other be kind and wash your hands, Karen (57:49): Wash your hands and don't touch your face. Yeah. And be mindful of the people if you are still, if your offices are still open, be mindful of the people coming into your office. If you are a home health therapist, be mindful of the people that you're that you're going to be treating because they may be in that vulnerable population. And because we, there's so much that we don't know, just be very mindful of how you're doing that and utilizing telehealth is a great way to have that extension of care for our patients, so. Mark (58:27): Right. And feel free to reach out to me market anywhere. Dot. Health care. I'm here as a resource. I'm trying to be as available as I can. I have to go to the bathroom occasionally or drink some water, eat some food, but I'm trying to be as available as I can in order to help help us transition and get through this, navigate this time. Karen (58:45): All right, well Mark, thank you so much. Got it. You've got everything there. Check out. Also, check out Mark's platform anywhere. Dot healthcare. I'll be happy to give a plug for that of course. And thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This is everyone else on this, on this call, so thank you. Mark (59:01): Beautiful. Thank you. Karen (59:04): Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest! Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts!

Legend of Zelda: Hitch in the Works

The Hard Drive Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 27, 2020 80:56

Soooooo the only way you can find this week's live action episode is either in extremely poor quality, or in German. So Mark and Jeremy are stuck between a rock and a schwer place (that's German for “hard,” I googled it). As best as they can tell, Mario and Luigi find a treasure map in their apartment, and invite Inspector Gadget to come over and help them figure it out. Yeah, that sounds about right. In the animated Zelda episode, Ganon realizes about halfway through that nothing particularly exciting is going on and decides to try to marry Princess Zelda. In addition to breaking this all down, the boys participate in their usual conversations about robes, The Sopranos, and cockroaches, and they even find time to debut some new characters!

german legend of zelda sopranos luigi hitch inspector gadget ganon so mark princess zelda

Increasing Happiness with Positive Action: Mark Williamson | OYNB 082

One Year No Beer | Hack your healthy Lifestyle

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 8, 2020 53:42

Mark Williamson says that he came from a privileged background – not in the sense that he came from wealth, but in the sense that he came from a loving family and enjoyed a happy, carefree childhood. Initially, Mark saw himself pursuing a scientific path. He studied engineering and became interested in understanding how to fix things and how the world works. This interest led him to finish a degree in electronics and pursue a Ph.D. He also worked on developing WiFi technology. However, Mark realized that he fundamentally enjoyed making connections with other humans, and he just wasn’t getting the human contact that he wanted from science or academia. So he decided to pursue another path. He went into management consulting but found that this career didn’t make him happy either. He liked the people he worked with but didn’t enjoy the job itself. “What I realized on that journey is that it’s not just the planet that’s broken, our culture is broken.” It was during this period of his life that Mark began to develop debilitating back pain. He would wake up in the morning unable to get out of bed. He stopped running and participating in sports activities. He was told that he had a degenerative spine disease and that he might be in a wheelchair by the time he reached his forties. During this time, his wife, who was training to be an osteopath, gave him a book introducing him to the idea that emotional stress might contribute to physical pain. This led Mark to quit the job and pursue a new path. Although Mark was on the path that would lead to him becoming the co-founder and director of Action for Happiness, that didn’t happen right away. Mark went back to school and got an MBA, but he wanted to use his skills and knowledge to do something with a social purpose. So, he spent five years working on the problem of climate change with Carbon Trust first. It was this work that made him realize that the problem wasn’t just the environment that was in trouble, it was the culture. So Mark set out to find a way to improve the culture, which was what led him to found Action for Happiness. In today’s interview, Mark talks about thinking of success in terms of happiness, not income, discovering the things that really matter in life, and helping others do the same. He also discusses his status as a recovering people pleaser and his decision to take a break from alcohol. Listen in to hear more about Mark and his work, as well as how you can get involved with Action for Happiness. OYNB LINKS OYNB Website: https://www.oneyearnobeer.com/ OYNB Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/Oneyearnobeer/ OYNB Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/199505820380513/ OYNB Twitter: https://twitter.com/oynbuk/ OYNB Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oneyearnobeer/ Email: info@oneyearnobeer.com MARK WILLIAMSON’S LINKS: Mark Williamson - Director of Action for Happiness Action for Happiness: https://www.actionforhappiness.org/

action happiness mba wifi increasing initially so mark mark williamson positive action oynb although mark oynb website

38. Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast featuring Mark Brault of Grace Clinic

Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast with Paul Casey

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 26, 2019 38:56

Intro: I've learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel, by Maya Angelou. I am Michelle Oates and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer. Paul Casey: Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins. Intro: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's a Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews the local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Mark Brault. Mark is the volunteer CEO of Grace Clinic, and a fun fact about Mark is he met his wife at Farrell's ice cream parlor. I heard he manipulated the schedule to make sure they were working together. But how many years later, Mark? Mark Brault: Well, it's got to be 45 years later. 43 we've been married but 45, 45 and a half. Paul Casey: Still eat ice cream together? Mark Brault: Yeah. Pretty regularly. Paul Casey: Well, before we begin our interview, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors. Neal Taylor: Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek. Derek Johnson: Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business. Josh Bam: That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington state liquor and cannabis board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Mark. I was privileged to meet you probably around eight years ago maybe now. I was on staff at Central Church and we had a global impact celebration every year and we brought in many from many community organizations. Grace Clinic was one of those and I think you were their representative then and you still are now. Mark Brault: You can't get rid of me. Paul Casey: So tell us a little bit about your past positions, bring us forward to where you are now so our Tri-Cities influencers can get to know you. Mark Brault: Well, a long way from where I got started, by training I'm a CPA. Paul Casey: I didn't know that. Mark Brault: I practiced public accounting, yeah I was a partner in a CPA firm many, many years ago. I spent about 13 years in a medical equipment business. Most recently up till about three and a half years ago I ran a couple of heavy truck dealerships. I've been involved in some startup companies, it's a pretty wide range of things. Paul Casey: Wow. It is a wide range. And you've probably met a lot of influencers along the way. So who stands out in your mind as either bosses, supervisors, colleagues that have made an impact on you? Maybe they've been a mentor or an advisor in your life? Mark Brault: There are lots of people and many of them who maybe I didn't work with directly or for, I remember, I mean this is a long time ago a local banker here who really had a lot of influence in my life. I mean that was back in the days when I was in public accounting but probably as many almost casual relationships or business relationships that influenced me as people that I had significant working relationships with. Certainly in my early days of public accounting there was a partner in our firm that had a lot of influence in the development of my public accounting career. But you can learn something from virtually anybody. Paul Casey: Here, here. Mark Brault: That's just the case and if you're looking for what you can learn, you can learn something from anybody. Paul Casey: Would you agree that everybody probably needs a mentor, someone that's further down the road than them and a mentee, someone that they can pass the baton to? Mark Brault: Absolutely. Absolutely. We need to learn from other people's experience. There's an old saying it's impossible to know what you don't know. And so learning from people who have more experience, who've been down that path before is enormously valuable. And sharing your knowledge with other people is critical as well. If you stay in your cocoon, it might work for butterflies but it probably doesn't work outside of that. Paul Casey: I could picture a little image of a cocoon as the anti-influencer. We can put that on the website. So when you got into this position at Grace Clinic, what was your original vision? How has that morphed along the years that you've been on this leadership journey there? Mark Brault: My participation in the clinic has changed a fair amount. I joined the board in early 2006. I got involved there originally because of my wife. My wife is a nurse practitioner who specialized in diabetes. She had been volunteering in the clinic. I tell the story this way, it didn't happen exactly this way, but she was volunteering in the clinic one day, and was having a conversation with one of the founders who said they were looking for a CPA to the board. And she said, here, take mine. She didn't really say here, take mine but it makes a better story. But she did, she said, my husband might be interested and I ended up having some conversations and joined the board. And a few years later we didn't really have an executive director. And so a few years later, there were four of us who played that role collectively. And that worked for a period of time, but it came to a place where we needed somebody. And that became me on a volunteer basis. And so I started strictly as a board member and grew from there. But the thing that was always the case for me and what got me involved initially is that people in my family have had health needs and have always been able to take care of it. Had good insurance, been able to afford or part of the cost. Our youngest son had type two diabetes since before he was two years old. I've had a couple of joints replaced. I've had arthritis for a long time and having been in a position where I was leading or involved in the senior leadership of other company I had a lot of connection around purchasing health insurance for employees and understand what's happening there and then having my wife with a medical practice have a number of points of perspective. Mark Brault: And recognize that there are a whole lot of people that don't have the access that I had. And this is a way to give back and help meet those needs that are real significant. And there's probably a little bit that I've been around healthcare for a long time. As I said I spent some time in the medical equipment business when I was practicing public accounting, I had a substantial number of physicians as clients so I've been around elements of it for a long time. Paul Casey: Grace Clinic has a super mission, just a super mission and that's great that you've been able to be on that board for 13 years, probably hitting you over the face right now, thinking 13 years. That's a long time. And over time then getting a executive director that replaced you in that volunteer role by now a paid person there. Right? Mark Brault: Well we have a clinic director. Paul Casey: Clinic director? Mark Brault: My title is CEO, but effectively executive director. Paul Casey: Got you. Mark Brault: And yeah, the clinic director is a paid position and Avonte holds that position, is an outstanding resource for us and does a tremendous job. And to a very great extent that in the way things operate, her role is chief operating officer and she's focused on the... Paul Casey: Day to day. Mark Brault: ...day to day operations and I'm focused in great measure externally. Paul Casey: Okay. Mark Brault: But yeah my role probably isn't going to go away any time soon. Paul Casey: Supreme Court justice. Yes. Well, what are you most passionate about? I mean obviously you keep stoking your fire so that you stay in this, you have no immediate plans of resigning from your volunteer position. So what are you most passionate about at Grace Clinic now? Mark Brault: Two things. Well more than two things but the first is we do a really good job of taking care of people and we do that in a fashion that they really value. We have one of our patients who sometime back about a year ago spoke in one of our volunteer events. We have a video of her as well, who says very clearly that coming here was hard. And that's because she and her husband had always been self sufficient. Then he became disabled and they lost her insurance and said coming was hard, but the clinic made it really easy. Mark Brault: They treated us like human beings. They didn't make us feel like we were asking for handouts. And so, we do a really good job and we do it in a fashion that is consistent with what I expect when I go to my doctor's office. And so that's one piece. But the other is that in the last couple of years we've been able to expand what we do really significantly. If you look at our medical visits in the first six months of 2019 compared to the first six months of 2017 we're up more than 90%. Paul Casey: Wow. Mark Brault: I mean, it's huge. And part of that, a big part of our ability to do that is because beginning in July of 2017 we launched a relationship with the residency program at Trios and Kadlec. And so now all of the third year residents out of those programs rotate through the clinic. Paul Casey: Wow that's cool. Mark Brault: They gave us a boost in capacity and it's also important from the standpoint of working with a broader community game. Having those two programs from hospitals that historically haven't done a whole lot of things together but are really actively doing this together with us. The more of those things, we can do the better off the community is. Paul Casey: Here, here. So I heard the power of story keeps you going to see those lives that are being changed and the power of stats, seeing the increased numbers of the capacity expanding and then saying wow, look how many we'll be able to reach. Mark Brault: There's a part of me that will always be a CPA. Paul Casey: Love it. So in your all your leadership capacities over the years you have to build teams, you try to create a culture. What are you looking for when everything from hiring the clinic director years ago, Avonte, to the physicians that come in, they volunteer their time, other volunteers. How do you assess that everyone's on the right seat on the bus? Mark Brault: That can be tough. I mean it really can. And for us, certainly at the beginning is the question of why is somebody interested? Do they get the mission or are they interested in participating in that? And in our case, there are multiple facets to that. We're a faith based organization, not all of our volunteers come from a faith tradition. Okay? And so there's some balance in there but it's why does somebody want to be involved? Is it consistent with what we're trying to do? Is probably the key thing is, understanding what we're about and wanting to come alongside because this organization and we have more than 300 active volunteers. Okay? It's completely a community endeavor, a whole lot of people that come together to make it happen. Mark Brault: So first and foremost it's do they understand the mission and want to participate in that? And then the second is a question of people who have different skillsets. Now, in our case there's some very technical elements, you have a physician or a nurse well, they're principally going to function kind of in that arena. But we have a lot of volunteers who don't have some medical credential and so finding the right fit relative to their skillset. And there's another thing, one of the things that's not widely known about Peter Drucker is that he actually has a book on managing nonprofit organizations. Mark Brault: One of the things that he talks about that book, which is a really important principle, is that volunteers really need to be considered as unpaid staff. Paul Casey: I agree. Mark Brault: That the role is no less important because they aren't getting paid. Then with paid staff that those jobs are every bit as important and consequently we have paid and unpaid staff. I'm part of the unpaid staff. But there are a number of those things that come into play. Paul Casey: See yourself if you're volunteering right now, Tri-Cities influencers, see yourself as unpaid staff too. And maybe that even raises the water level of, Oh, I've got to stay connected on my board or I've got to show up and I've got to follow through because just like a paid person would, they're counting on you to get through that. And so alignment sounds really huge when you're trying to create a culture of both to the mission and also to the values. Let's stay on that personnel topic. So how do you keep those volunteers or those paid or unpaid staff inspired and affirmed? Mark Brault: In our organization, a big part of the inspired comes from doing the work. It comes from seeing the impact that we're having. It comes from seeing volunteers who have their eyes opened. We've had countless cases where a relatively new volunteer will comment, I had no idea. I had no idea about the magnitude of this need because I didn't encounter the need directly in the rest of my life. I've often said that for many of us, we encounter one of our patients because they happened to be the clerk in a store where we're buying something, okay? And we don't know their story, so a lot of that inspiration comes from seeing the impact in the patients and seeing the growth in the unpaid staff that is incredibly rewarding. Paul Casey: Yeah. I think it's important for all leaders, especially if you're in an organization with layers to connect your team through the constituents that you're actually helping. Even if you're making pizza or a widget, who are the people that you're actually benefiting from all the work that you're doing and that reconnects you to that mission over and over again. We also had a conference recently where they talked about your people, whether they're paid or unpaid staff need air and we were like, "yeah, of course we do to live." But AIR stands for affirmation, inspiration and recognition and I really like that AIR: affirmation, inspiration and recognition to keep going. Well, no one wants to get stale in leadership. You've been in the game awhile. How do you stay relevant? How do you stay on the cutting edge in your leadership position? Mark Brault: For me and in this particular arena at Grace Clinic, the principle thing that I do is I'm looking for what other people are doing. There's a statewide organization of free clinics and so we share a lot of information back and forth. We have a relatively new organization in the Tri-Cities, the Columbia Basin Nonprofit Association that I was one of about seven or eight people that put that together where we want to share information and knowledge. And the reality is it doesn't matter how well you're doing something, there are things that you can learn to do it better. Paul Casey: Absolutely. Mark Brault: And so for me it's always being on the lookout for those things and I'll give you a crystal clear illustration of this. A year and a half ago, I had been invited to an event, it was like middle of November and I agreed to go. I'm driving there in the morning and the title of this event was increasing community connections. And I'm driving there and I'm asking myself the question, why am I going to this thing this morning? It's all morning and I've got other things to do. And I went. Turned out it was a really lousy title. It really didn't identify what was going to happen there at all. And a pair of presenters who were making a presentation together talked about something that they had done in their organization, in another medical operation that directly got involved in their medical clinic, mental health professionals. Mark Brault: Now we have a substantial mental health program, but what these guys were doing is they had a mental health professional who was assigned to the medical clinic. And when one of their clinicians would encounter a need that the patient they were seeing had, they would often say, you know, excuse me man, there's another member of our team that I think could be helpful and they would bring that individual in. They don't identify him as a mental health professional. They just identify him as another member of the team and that person would take over the way that it was structured they just schedule a couple of followups in the medical clinic. Mark Brault: so part of what's happening here is you get this warm hand-off, but also you're avoiding the stigma. The reaction, I don't need to see a counselor. It was enormously effective. And so we decided we were going to try that and it's been enormously effective for us. If I hadn't gone to that thing, when might I have learned about that. And so you have to always be on the lookout for things that can advance what you're doing, something you can learn from other people. And that's particularly in an environment like healthcare where things are changing all the time. That's why it's a survival skill. Paul Casey: That's right. That's right. Again, the cocoon, the anti influencer principle. The associations are a big deal. So influencers, and you're listening to this podcast, your profession probably has an association in the nuclear society, the real estate association, the accountant's association. All of them here in the Tri-Cities have a branch, well maybe not all of them, but many of them do. Even this free clinic association you're referring to Mark, I got to speak at that a few years ago on strategic planning, big hearted people, and probably just being in the room with them was encouraging to all of them. So there's so many good things that can come out of being a part of your association. And I think innovation can spring from that. Well, before we head into our next question about what makes a good day for Mark, let us shout out to our sponsors. Paul Casey: Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you'd get about life insurance? Jason Hogue: Hey Paul. Yeah. One of the biggest push backs I get on life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this? Ultimately whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. And I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility. Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason. So tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you? Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco or give us a call at (509) 547-0540. Paul Casey: So Mark, what makes it a good day for you personally? When you put your head on the pillow at night and look back and go, today was a really good day. What kind of things are going on that day to make it a good day? Mark Brault: It's any one of a number of things. I mean certainly often it's we've been able to accomplish something we're working on. We've had some demonstration of why we do this. But for me also it could be something associated with my family. I mean, we're incredibly fortunate that all of our kids live here, which means all of our grandkids live here and for years we've done something where everybody comes to our place for dinner on Monday night. Paul Casey: Oh really? That's great. Mark Brault: That includes my parents and my wife's folks and if everybody's there we have, I think it's 30 Paul Casey: Whoa, a family reunion every Monday night? Mark Brault: It's a lot but we have so many friends whose grandkids live 2000 miles way and so often it can be related to just the interaction with our kids or grandkids, especially grandkids. We've got five who actually live six houses away from us and it doesn't get much better than that. Paul Casey: Well, you have a family of influencers. The Brault family here in town are movers and shakers for sure. But I love how you said it's living that way that makes it a good day. You look back in your day and did we live it out our way? And if you can say yes to that, it is a good day. Well, let's peel back one layer of the onion of your life here, Mark, what's your best habit and what's your worst habit? Mark Brault: Well, I don't know what my best habit is. My worst habit is procrastination. I'm as guilty of that as anybody. Paul Casey: We need a procrastination anonymous club here. Mark Brault: There was a time when I wore a little button that said Procrastinate Later. But that's undoubtedly my worst habit. I'm not sure what my best habit is. Paul Casey: Do you have more of like a routine that you're like, I've got to do this every day? Mark Brault: I am virtually always up early. And so, I have some time in the morning when I'm reading, I'm catching up on the news. I mean, it's a whole host of things and that really works for me. I've always been a morning person and it doesn't work for my wife. Paul Casey: Sure. Sure. Mark Brault: But I'll have that time to organize my day and that works pretty well. Paul Casey: Morning routine is huge. So much better than running to work or your first thing with your hair on fire. But to have that time to reflect, meditate. Some people pray, some people read, but to expand that morning a little bit more than just getting ready. Mark Brault: Right. Paul Casey: Well other than procrastinate later, do you have a favorite quote that or a mantra that you live by or like to repeat? Mark Brault: That for me moves around. It'll be something that works for a period of time and then doesn't and more recently, the one which I mentioned before we get started is something I heard recently in a sermon, which is "God will not push you deeper into your comfort zone." Paul Casey: I wrote that one down before we started because I love it. What does that mean to you? Mark Brault: Well, it means that there are a lot of things that are hard. I mean some things are just hard work. And require you to push to stretch. It doesn't happen because you kick back and take it easy. And so, if you're going to accomplish things that you want to accomplish, you have to get out there and get after it. And I think what really resonated there with me in that statement is it is the reality that you have to get out of your comfort zone. Mark Brault: And I mean, there are any number of things in my role in the clinic that take me out of my comfort zone. I spend a fair amount of time asking people for money. It's not the most comfortable thing I do. But I had a recognition and a number of years ago, and this was somebody I was listening to who made this comment, which is in the worst case, if you ask, the answer is going to be no. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. Paul Casey: Still, no. Mark Brault: Okay. So, if you don't give somebody the opportunity to say yes, the answer is no. Right? And so, you've got to be willing to get outside of your comfort zone if you're going to accomplish anything. And if you'll continue to do that, you can grow and develop. And if you don't, you're in that cocoon. Paul Casey: That's right. Growth is the enemy of comfort or comfort is the enemy of growth. I like that quote too. That's the same one I just turned to. I don't know if you've seen this guy. I think his name is JiaJiang. It's J-I-A and then J-I-A-N-G, the rejection therapy guy. So he went out to try to beat rejection. This feeling of hating rejection to get a hundred no's. So he came up with a hundred unique things like, can I play soccer in your backyard just knocking on a door, or can I get a burger refill? Just that we'd hear no, he'd be like, check, got another one. He was trying to get a hundred no's. You have to look it up on YouTube. But it is very funny. Some people actually said yes so for some, he was hoping for a no to walk away and they made it happen for him. But he overcame the no rejection, his fear of that because of it. So all that happened outside of his comfort zone. How about a book, Mark, that every leader should read in your opinion? Mark Brault: In the non-profit space, Peter Drucker's book is really excellent. He's generally not thought of in the non-profit arena. That's not where the bulk of his work was, but it's really well done and I think worth reading. I think the other thing, I recently shared a book in a clinic that was recommended to me that I think an awful lot of people ought to read. It's called Nickel and Dimed. And it's written by a woman who is a writer who decided that she was going to try and figure out what it's like to live on minimum wage. And so she went to three different communities each for a month and had to find a job and a place to live. Mark Brault: And she's very clear that her experience is not reflective of people who are at that place all the time. In one of the communities she went to, she worked for a maid service and she commented that she was in a better place at the end of the day than most of the women that she worked for or worked with. But she said that's because I haven't been doing this for 20 years. That I'm in good health. I went to the gym, I'm starting from a place of not having abused my body with this physical work for 20 years. But understanding those things is important. Paul Casey: Builds your empathy, builds your compassion. Yeah, for sure. Mark Brault: Builds your knowledge. Paul Casey: Yeah. Mark Brault: Okay. We often don't understand some of those challenges. Paul Casey: Yeah. Good old Peter Drucker, the father of modern management, I think he's called. He put out some really good stuff. How about an influencer in town that all Tri-Citians should meet? I know it's hard to narrow it down to one, but you got someone that everybody should meet? Mark Brault: And I'm going to stay in the non-profit arena. The group of people who were instrumental along with me in starting the Columbia Basin Non-profit Association are folks who are worth meeting. Brian Ace who leads the Boys and Girls Club, Grant Bain leads Senior Life Resources. Steve Holland, the YMCA. I mean there are a whole group of people who are really active in non-profit leadership that they're having a big impact in the community and are worth knowing. Paul Casey: Good people for sure. Well finally, Mark, what advice would you give to a new leader or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence? Mark Brault: I think that influence comes out of getting things done and doing it in a fashion that is open, that's not arrogant. And so, I think the way that people gain influence is by doing the work and both in their career, in their volunteer work, those are the things that they're necessary. And I've been fortunate, I've been involved in a lot of organizations over a long time and those things are both rewarding, but they also create relationships and connections that have value and can have a lasting impact. Paul Casey: Well, Tri-City influencers. You heard it here. Influence comes from getting things done. Thanks Mark. How can our listeners best connect with you? Mark Brault: I'm pretty easy to find at the clinic. I respond pretty faithfully to email at Markb@gracecliniconline.org. I get a lot of email and I'm usually not too far behind on it. Paul Casey: Way to go. Well thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend if you love quotes, found a great place to find them. It's called addicted2success.com. They have grouped quotes by famous leaders, both contemporary leaders and those that are no longer with us or by theme. So again, addicted2success.com and you'll find some other great resources there as well. Paul Casey: And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer : Gravis Law and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Kahlil Gibran said, "zeal is a volcano, the peak of which the grass of indecisiveness does not grow." Keep growing forward. Intro: If you enjoyed this podcast or piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt into his Target Practice inspirational email newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books the most recent one being, Leading the Team You've Always Wanted. Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse coworking space.

Ep#34 Buying Deals in five different states, Lifecycle from W2 Job to Business Owner to Real Estate Investor with Mark Kenney

Achieve Wealth Through Value Add Real Estate Investing Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 24, 2019 51:44

James: Hey, audience and listeners, this is James Kandasamy from Achieve Wealth True Value-add Real Estate Investing. I'm here today with Mark Kenny, who's the founder and I'm not sure, the president or what's the title? Mark: Yeah, well my wife and I together so we might have different opinions but... James: Okay. Both of you run the King multifamily. But before that, before we go into the hot topics that we're going to discuss with Mark, make sure that you guys look at last week's episode where we had KK Singh being interviewed. KK has moved from a business owner. He used to own gas stations and laundry mat and now he's become a multifamily investor, which is a very, very interesting concept. Because I think any business owner, anybody who wants to know how that business is run and why he's using multifamily, why did he go into multifamily? And he didn't even pay tax last year just because of the multifamily investment. So you guys want to check out the last episode. But let's come back to this episode. Hey Mark, welcome to the show. Mark: Thanks for having James. Great to see you again. James: Awesome. Also, I'm happy to have you on the show. So, Mark, he's a GP, almost like 5,200 units, out of that 2000 units where he's basically the primary active asset manager and he's also GP on another 3,200 on top of the 2000 units. And he goes across multiple markets, which is very interesting for me. I want to go a bit deep dive into that. You know, he's in Texas, he's in Alabama, he's in Tennessee, he's in Florida and I believe that's what I covered. Right. Mark? Mark: Georgia, as well. James: Georgia. Okay, got it. Got it. Atlanta. Right. So yeah. So Mark, did I miss out on something about yourself? Do you want to tell the audience about yourself? Mark: No, I mean, yeah, real quick. So I grew up in Michigan. I'm in Dallas now, so not too far away from you, James. But I was a CPA for a while, did IT consulting, which you and I traded some stories about that before about the IT side and I started buying small multi-family when I was 22, I was a senior in college. About two to four units and then my brother and I...I didn't know what syndication was. Syndication is the fancy word for raising money from other people for the most part and pooling it together to buy properties. I didn't know what that was. So I started buying two to four units. And then my IT business was doing pretty well. That was, I really had no time. I always, I'd say 80, 85 hours a week and start really doing the math. I was probably 90 to a hundred hours a week and a lot of weeks. And you know, frankly didn't have any time for my wife, caused some issues and so she basically said, you need to do something different than what you're doing. And I said, well, yeah, I will. But you know you have to deal with me and we both love real estate. So we started buying larger properties through syndication. I invested passively first in a syndication with a friend of mine, said it makes a lot of sense and you know, why don't I look at doing it myself and that's what we started doing back in 2013. James: Got it. Got it. It's very interesting about your story when you're working on a W2 job, especially in the IT tech industry. I mean, it's a lot of work, we put in long hours, right? It's a constantly changing sector, right? The industry is consistently changing. We are always driven by schedule and I was just talking to, Shanti, who's my wife and all and how our life has changed when we used to be in W2 every day, like Fridays when we can really open up our time, open up because from Monday to Friday we are like so busy working like [03:55unclear] focused and where I used to work, we used to work remote as well. So after five, six o'clock we used to work like, you know, we have lunch, we have dinner, and we continued working with the offsite team. So life never ends. And now with real estate, it's so much of a difference. Now you own your own time and you're out on what to do and we can, you know, my traveling time in Austin is like 11 to 2. That's it because it's a bit of traffic. Mark: Yeah. It's interesting, right? I mean, I actually started my own IT business 2008 so I didn't even have a W2 job since 2008. But I got in a situation where, you know, any project that came up and any unrealistic timeframe that was out there, I would do it. I would make the dates. So that's what allowed me to get more and more projects. I had a number of Fortune 100 companies as customers, but so even though I have my own business back then, I still didn't have the luxury of time. You know, I was always going somewhere, always doing projects and yeah, I'd be up, I sleep three hours a night, like consistently, that's all I would sleep. James: I mean, you don't have to go by numbers, but did you make like almost a similar amount of money compared to what you made in real estate? I mean, it's a time versus money investment, right? Mark: It's a great question because when I first started looking at syndication, I said I'm not going to be able to replace my IT income. And I truly, it was a mindset. It really was. I really did not think I'd replaced my IT income. It was pretty, pretty high at the time. And after three projects that I did in multifamily I stopped doing IT. I had not replaced my IT income at that point in time, but it was enough to live and live, you know, decent. And then we've done, you know, we've done 37 projects, whatever now. But I didn't think I was gonna replace IT. But yeah, we've far surpassed it. I mean a lot frankly, and the time we have, and I don't have to ask anyone to go anywhere or you know, things like that, you can turn it on and off if you want to. Where in IT, if you're not working, not making any money, you don't have that passive income. James: So you have a very interesting life cycle because you were working in IT, a W2 job and then you went to do your own business but still in IT. And now you are completely a full-time real estate investor. So, so in terms of time wise, I mean from what we're discussing, I mean, real estate investment gives you the best return of time, right? I mean, you get really good pay and at the same time, your time is like, really low. Mark: There is no comparison. You know, you mentioned about talking to your wife a higher life is different. I mean, my life has, you know, 180 degrees different for the better than when it was before. I was on the verge of, you know, I'm not sure, you know, Tammy, my wife wasn't only happy because of my work schedule and now we got to work full time together. Just like you get to work with your wife, which is great. And the time, you know, if I want to go somewhere and you can get to the point with multifamily or any real estate investment, you get enough of it. If you choose to go sit on the beach, which I don't want to do, frankly I don't but if you choose to go and do that, you get in a position to do that for sure. With IT, I wouldn't be able to, I had to keep working projects in order to make money. James: Yeah. But can we go back to your mindset when you are working, not as a business owner, when you are working in IT? Because I sometimes analyze my own mindset when I was working, because when I was working in IT, I did look at Robert Kiyosaki's book and I could not read like a few pages because it just doesn't make sense to me, we are so busy working. What is this guy talking about business. And after a few pages I put it down and I forgot about it until recently I started reading it and I was just surprised that that book changed a lot of people, real estate investors' life. But I don't know, I think when you are working you're really, really working, you really don't care about the business side of it and I mean, I think it's up to your circle, right? Who are you mixing with? Mark: That's a great point. I know when I worked originally at KPMG Consulting and I worked for SAP you know, did some Salesforce consulting and things like that. And you're looking at other people that are older than you at the time I started out, it was, you know, early twenties when I started out. And look at other people that are partners, for example, and you have this image, you're like, that's my lifestyle. I'm going to be traveling all the time and I'm going to be working seven days a week, which is what I did. And you know, and then, you know, some point in time, not everyone gets to the point where I was, where my point was. And my wife was pretty much ready to leave me if I didn't do anything. And that was a big eye-opener for me. But you're right, you get trapped in that circle of influence, right? And everyone's doing the same thing. And at that time, I aspire to be a partner and I would've made partner, I mean, made a manager in two years and things like that. But I would have been miserable, frankly. I would have been. James: So compared to the job security, I mean, I don't know whether there's job security in any job or not because there is no job security, right? I mean, when I was a manager, I used to hire and fire people very quickly just because of non-performance, right? So there is no job security, right? I mean, I use to work on a semiconductor industry for like almost 20 years and we thought we were going to retire there but we realize you know, during different economic cycles, the company doesn't really, you know, honor your loyalty. I mean, there's no such thing. They have to make a business decision, they'll let you go if they need to let you go. There's no such thing as a company is going to be keeping you forever. Mark: Right, right. That's true. James: Right. So yeah, coming back to real estate venture. So 2008 was when you got into IT and when did you start your real estate venture? Mark: Syndication; 2013 is when I first started investing passively and invested in a few deals. And about that time I started looking at syndication, but it took me almost a year to get my first deal. And it was partly, I was looking at other things too; self-storage and building custom development, you know, homes and things like that, franchises. I looked at everything. I was looking for something to get me out of the bad situation I was in. But it still took us about a year to get our first deal. James: So did you stop work and start into real estate? Was it a step function or was it like a... Mark: It is gradual; for me, it took me three deals. So I'm thinking, let me see, 2014 is when I think I got my first deal, I don't remember exactly. But by '16 I had stopped doing IT. James: Got it. Was that a painful transition from a business owner to a real estate investor? Mark: No, it really wasn't for me anyway. You know, I've always had a big fear of money and you know, I wish I did, but I always did cause growing up and things like that. But we had enough money set aside to where, you know, I looked at it, if I had to go back and do IT, I had so many connections at a time, I could get a job pretty much, you know, right away. I didn't want to, but I was like, okay, well, I have a transition I'm making here, but if I fail, that was my mind, if I failed at doing this and after taking a year to find my first deal, I was pretty skeptical. And then we started getting the traction. So I was like, Hey if I need to go back, I can do that. I don't want to do it. But if I do, I can support the family. The transition wasn't hard for me. We were buying at that time only in Dallas, so I really wasn't having to travel outside Dallas. Yeah. So it was a pretty easy transition. James: Got it, got it. So as I was talking about that, you had like three different lifecycles, right? You're a W2 employee, you're a business owner and then you become a real estate investor and you are a CPA. So I'm going to ask you, similar to CPA question, how was your tax advantages comparing these three life cycles? Mark: Okay. So you know, even though I'm a CPA, I haven't practiced for 20... James: But at a high level, was there any tax benefit between... Mark: Oh yeah. Without a doubt. When I had the IT business, you know, I was actually paying taxes quarterly. I was getting hit hard. I mean, I was making decent money. Now, in the last two years, we haven't paid any federal income tax like zero. And in fact, it's negative. So people were like, Oh, you didn't make any money. No, we make money. But from the tax benefit we received through depreciation and cost segregation and bonus appreciation, we pay zero federal income tax. So, I mean, think about people listening to this, if you didn't have to pay taxes, how much more money you'd have in your pocket and what you could do with that? James: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I have a chart that shows how a $2 double for the next 20 years. And you know, at a 25% rate, that $2 becomes 72,000 after 20 years because you're taxed 25% every time you double, right? But if you don't have tax, that $2 becomes almost like $11 million, you know. Mark: Oh, boy, Oh my goodness. James: So the tax does impact your compounding savings. And if you don't look at it, you may not know. I mean, when I was working, I never really looked at tax because as I say, we are busy working. We just look at net pay coming to the thing. I mean taxes, like it's not nice for me. But when I look at that kind of chart, you know, it does make a lot of difference in terms of, Hey, you know, it does impact your overall savings. You know, if you compounded for not [13:53unclear] you see a big difference, millions of dollars of difference. Mark: Oh yeah. And like you mentioned, when you have a W2 job, it just comes out, you notice it, you don't like it. But when you have your own business, my own IT business, you have to write check every quarter you really notice it. And then you're like, I made that much money this quarter and where did it all go? And now I have to write a check for, you know, X number of dollars. And you know, you're just scratching your head and you're frustrated and stressed out. But with real estate, it's literally zero. James: So did you have employees under you when you have a business? Mark: All 1099. James: Okay. So if you have an employee, then you're to pay tax for them too, I guess. So that's double taxation Mark: That's exactly right. James: Okay. So W2, I mean, I don't know. I have a chart that shows W2 people are paying almost 70% of the tax in this country. So this country is supported by people who are in W2. They are the ones who's paying taxes. They're the ones building the roads, the bridges, and all the infrastructure. Right? The 30% is from the other people who are earning less than 30,000 or people who are earning more than 500,000 and above. Mark: Yeah. James: Right? I mean, people who are earning more than 20,000 to pay a lot of taxes. But in general, if you look at it, the big bulk of it is paid by our W2 employees. Mark: Right. Makes sense. James: Just because you can't run away. Mark: You can't. There are no savings, no tax shelters. James: Absolutely. I'd say real estate investors, all kinds of you know incentive in the tax code to not paying taxes. So coming back to your real estate venture in multifamily, and you skipped over buying single-family and you went direct to multifamily. Mark: We did. I mean, multifamily, two to four units when I was 22. Yeah. So it was smaller for sure. It made more sense to me, frankly. I don't remember, I actually didn't look at any homes. I don't know why I'd go back and think about that. Why I didn't start looking at any single-family homes. To me, we looked at two to four units at a time. James: Well, I mean if you look at cashflow, two to 14 definitely make a lot more sense in terms of cash flow. Right? Maybe that's what it is. And how many two to four units did you own before you come to multifamily? Mark: We had like 17 units total. James: Okay. 17 in two to four units, I guess. Smaller multifamily. And do you think that helped you when you scale up? Mark: It did. Because I know you manage, right? You and your wife manage. When we did the smaller properties, we self-managed and we took care of things and evicted people. So it definitely helped from that perspective. I didn't like the process, it's not something I want to do now, but it also, even though it's drastically different how you evaluate four units and below and in five units and below is drastically different, people can argue all day long steps are almost identical, right? You identify your criteria, you go drive by a property, contract, blah, blah, everything's the same. So it helped for sure. Plus just kind of, you know, getting comfortable with buying your first deal is the hardest. So once you start, you know, I bought like whatever it was, you know, five deals, six deals, I don't remember the number, exactly. It gets you more comfortable. So when you go buy a larger property, it's bigger numbers. So it is concerning whatever I had already done, you know, like six transactions before that time, even though they're small, it helped. James: Got it. Got it. I mean, in a way, it helps because I mean, you know at least how to read the lease and you probably know how real estate section happens, right? Mark: Your first time signing for your first deal, usually you're most likely going to be pretty freaked out, right? You've done six smaller deals. It's still, then when you start doing bigger deal, then it's the money. Right? The only thing that concerned me, you know, I have to say only it really was the, you know, brain capital to the deals. I had no concerns about how to underwrite the deals that I knew how to do that or how to find deals or talk to brokers or loan. It was always about, you know, the capital. That was my biggest concern. James: Okay. Okay. But do you think that's still an issue in this market cycle? Mark: Yeah. I'm always concerned about capital. You know, we have like eight deals under contract right now. You know, so we've never not closed a deal, but you know, that's the one thing that's still stressing me out sometimes, frankly. James: Yeah. Because you need to figure out whether you have big enough investor base too in all those eight deals. Mark: That's right. Mark: Okay. Got it. So coming back to this, no multiple markets that you have, I mean, do you want to explain on how did you get into this so many markets? I mean, I think some of it is you've partnered with some of your students, right? Mark: Well, originally I was just buying pretty much with one other person off in Dallas. Dallas, and at least, in my opinion, was definitely getting more expensive and it's even more expensive now. I have a twin brother that moved to Atlanta so I used to visit him and Atlanta has a lot of similarities to Dallas. Dallas is yet, and it may never be, but it definitely has a lot of similarities. So I started traveling there. I looked at properties for about a year and a half before we got our first deal. And I just really like the market. That kind of was if my brother wasn't there, I don't know if I would be in Atlanta, frankly. I don't know if I would have thought about going there. When I'm going there, I see a lot of activity, new buildings, new development cranes, things like that. So it was an attractive market. And then, so that's Texas and you know, kind of the Atlanta area. And then we started looking in the Southeast. This is a general statement. Some of the brokers cross different estates sometimes too. They might, if they have a license, they can actually sell in multiple States and they might say, Hey, now, we're in Tennessee, we have a project here, we have a project up in Arkansas now, which we don't own anything there yet. So these brokers started giving us deals and I started checking out different markets. And really, the way I got into the other markets as far as initially was I would have brokers in Dallas typically reached out to other brokers in other markets and make an introduction for me. And that kind of gives you instant credibility and they're going to typically give you the best of the best of brokers to work with in another market. And that's how we got involved in other markets. James: Got it. So how did you choose this market? I mean, except for Atlanta where you said your brother was there, you initially went there because of Atlanta, but now you are like in five different markets. Tennessee, Alabama, Florida. I mean, now, how did you choose these markets and why these markets? Mark: Yeah. A friend of mine who I've done a lot of deals with, he had bought a smaller deal in Memphis and I never would have considered Memphis. And some people don't like Memphis. We own a lot there. We've done really well there. But Memphis also has, you know, even though [21:05 unclear] job growth population growth, things like that, it's okay, but not like Dallas, of course. But the rent growth has been going up. They're putting, you know, several billion dollars in investments of downtown. But that particular city also has something called a pilot program, which we've done multiple times. Where you can go in, you buy a multifamily property, you have to put a certain amount of capital into it. It's a lot. And then you'll get your property taxes cut in half and then they're frozen for 20 years. So I mean, as you know, property taxes is typically one of the largest, right? [21:44unclear] I can freeze them for 20 years. Cash flow is going to typically be pretty nice on it. James: Hmm. So you're basically taking advantage of that particular program. What about the other States that..." Mark: Yeah, Florida, I always looked, I like Florida just because of probably the weather initially and when we were in Atlanta we started looking in Florida as well. And Florida has, I mean, some areas like Miami that as you probably know are extremely expensive, just not going to buy there. But I also have a cousin, multiple cousins actually live in Florida and so I heard different things from talking to them. And then some of the brokers we were talking to like in Georgia and stuff like that, had some properties in Florida and a property came up and the first time we're looking at properties there. I liked the properties in Jacksonville and we have a few properties there now. And it was one of those markets, again, similar to Atlanta, job growth, population growth, rent growth. It doesn't have to be off the charts, frankly. Some of the markets where it's so off the charts, it's just too expensive to buy in, the yields. You can't get the returns. And then with Alabama, it was a guy that had a deal and was looking to partner and I partnered with him on a few deals. He had deals there in Alabama. And then we have another one right now, a guy in our coaching group that has a deal in Alabama as well. He's closer over by there as far as that's where he'd been looking. So usually it's through some sort of relationship. Somebody either already lives there or someone is looking there and then it kind of gives me an opportunity to check the markets out. James: Got it, got it. So basically if you have boots on the ground as part of your program, that's an advantage definitely. Right? Mark: It is for sure. James: But don't you find, you know, establishing broker relationship in that kind of market it's harder because you, I mean they did not know you, right? Mark: It is, there's no question. I mean, you know, I think that's why it took us so long to get into Atlanta. We had a really hard time breaking in there. And then once we got in there, you know, it was just one brokerage firm in Atlanta that we closed 11 deals in like 18 months with. We've definitely had their attention. With that first deal., I went to Florida. I mean, I was banging my head against the wall because we couldn't get any traction with brokers there. I would say, you know, you just keep sticking with it, but there's no question, you know, if you're an outsider, don't live there and you've never bought a deal there, you're at a disadvantage. You can use things like, Hey, your track record and you can have brokers that I know. So when we got a deal in Florida, our first deal, it was with a brokerage firm that I had bought a deal in Dallas with and the broker in Dallas had called me about it. So he, you know, if you want to say put a good word in for us. So a lot of these brokers talk as, you know, it's very small world. Yeah. And I don't think we would've gotten that deal in Florida if I had not bought a deal without a broker, you know, brokerage firm if you want to stay in Dallas, I think we would have probably not been selected for that deal. James: Got it. So let's go a bit more detail into that step by step. So let's say today somebody, you know, in your circle or one of your students come, Hey, you know, I found a deal in Florida, right? Somewhere in Florida, right? So what are the things that you would do to underwrite the deal? Mark: Yeah. You know, the underwriting different aspects of it, forget the reports and stuff for a second. But you know, even financing terms can be drastically different across the country. Some of the pre-review cities and stuff like that start at 65%. So you want to first understand, don't assume we're getting 80% leverage in three or five years IO in every single location because it's different. So understanding first, the insurance can be drastically different. You know, if you're on a coastal area, it can be a lot higher than all the other areas and understand kind of the fundamentals there. Taxes, you know, do they get reassessed? And that can be through, we have a tax consultant we use, but also you can typically just call the County and the County will tell you kinda how the taxes will be reassessed and when. You know, in Memphis, that's every four years so that's important to know. They only reassess every four years. And then we'll get like a report, whether it's Yardi or CoStar. Those are paid reports. We'll also use things like some free...we have a number of links on our analyzer that take you to things like crime and the school districts things like that. Those are all links we have on that. But overall, nothing beats having someone on the ground, you know. So if you can talk to other people there and talking to lenders, you know, lenders have the biggest investment in a deal than anybody as a general statement where they have more money involved. So try to understand from lenders to kind of how some of the properties are performing there, it is important. In the report, as I said, it's only as good as the report. It is good data. A lot of it's based on, you know, actual transactions that have happened, but I'm trying to get someone like a broker or property management company. So if we have a property management company you know, David Shore is multi South in Memphis and he's in seven other, he's actually in seven other States. Once we built that relationship, then we start asking him questions. He'll tell us, don't even look at that deal, it's not a good deal. This deal maybe you can look at, you know, 95% of deals he tells us not to look at there. So having some boots on the ground can't be replaced. It might take you a while to do that. It's typically going to be like a management company or maybe, you know, a broker, but you know, brokers in to sell, you know, they wouldn't, don't get paid unless they sell a property. So kind of all the different aspects. Reports talking to people, visiting the area, trying to understand what happened before in the past. Those areas are all good ways to kind of get more Intel on the property. James: So you basically look at location, crimes, making sure how are you underwriting your tax records. Mark: The tax is huge. James: Every state is different. Mark: Yeah. Every state, county; city even sometimes. So we have like I say a tax consultant, but we have found really if you call the County and tell them the property what you're doing, they'll tell you how they reassess and they'll give you a good number. And we've only had like a couple of occasions where it hasn't really given us the information we want. Generally speaking, we always get the information we need from the County. James: Got it. Got it. So who have told you the most knows? I mean like who say don't touch that deal most of the time? Is it a property management company or is it the tax consultant or insurance company? Mark: Property management company. Without a doubt. It may be they don't want to manage it. James: Well how do you know they just don't like that property. Maybe it's just because... Mark: I know you self-manage. We have found in almost every submarket we ran with a management company, even if they don't manage a property today, they're like, we manage that property five years ago and you know like in that, you might have some Intel. We got a property here where a number of properties in Dallas I've looked at and our management company managed it. So I called the guy and said, Hey, what's up with that? And he'll say, you know, it had like $200,000 of plumbing issues or whatever it might be. But usually someone that's large in a submarket, they know the property or they at least know you know the area well enough to give you some really good Intel and it seems to amazed me where people are like, well, THE manageMENT company says we can push rents like $75, I think we can do it like by 125. it's like there's no basis for that. Like why do you think you can do that? You can push your management company and ask them questions and things like that. You know, if I go try and do a comp for a property myself, I don't fit the demographics, I'm probably not going to get a good comp. Have a management company do it for you. They'll actually send people out there that fit the demographics. They'll actually get you comps and pictures and things like that. Go into some of these reports...I get called all the time from, I won't name them, but these providers of data call me all the time. I don't talk to them. And half time the information you get, you don't even know if it's right. It's coming through there. So, yeah. James: So how do you know the management company that is calling is not the current management company? Mark: Yeah, it's happened before. You know, you can ask the broker who managed it today. They'll tell you because it could be for sale and the property management company doesn't even know it. And if you call them and tell them, Hey, I'm looking at this property for sale, then they're going to be pretty upset. James: Yeah. I've looked at out-of-state as well at one point. And I realized management company gives me the best quick data. They can tell me a lot of things about a state compared to anybody else, right. Because they know the pain of managing it. So yeah, I would say they are one of the best resources to call if you're looking at out of state investment. So after that, what do you do? I mean, you already looked at taxes, you already looked at the property, so it's all good. So what do you do next? Mark: So then we'll underwrite it. Usually using, you know, we have a quick analyzer. We have a much more detailed analyzer. In the detailed analyzer, we're going to go through every expense category, like line by line, compare them to the, you know, T12. We'll try to get two independent property management budgets so we get that. And then our analyzer also has industry standards based on property, class, and size. We'll tell you what the standards are for every single category. Which is very helpful to see if something's out of whack. You know, I just had an example. Somebody not in a group, if someone's sent me something, it was two properties. It was over 300 doors together and they had payroll at $750 a door. I'm like, no, it's not going to happen. Or we're going to share the property manager on-site across the two properties and might not for 300 plus units, we're not going to, not very easily. So I said, okay, so does the management company say they're okay with that? No. And if they did, what happened was that if you have to get rid of them and now you're going to bring in another management company, they're going to be at $1,200 a door. It just happened, another one today actually on something where they're getting charged two and a half percent on 80 doors. I said that's pretty low, two and a half percent. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you need to probably bump that up because just because one management company said they'll do it for that, if they're not your management company anymore, then you're going to be paying more. James: Yeah. Yeah. You can't underwrite just because one person said it. I mean two and a half is really low compared to any industries. Whenever I see sponsors or syndicators showing me a deal, I mean, not many people should me their deals, but I do get to see some people still. I mean, when they say they want to share management, that is an indication that you know that deal doesn't have that much upside. They have to do really, really creative weird stuff. They will share this, share that, we have to do. [33:15 unclear] covered parking. We have to do washer dryer and that's all that really small amount of upside. And that is not a good deal. Mark: That's just the gravy. You're exactly right. I mean, you know it, right? You manage your properties and people are like, I'm going to share. I was like, you're not going to. I mean, if you think it was that easy, don't you think all the management companies would do it? James: You're going to compromise a lot of things when you share management. And as I said, when you're going to that extent to really justify your upside in the deal, that means the deal is really not a good deal. Mark: Well, James, I have people who'd be like, we're going to put in like wifi and charge this and they're trying to put that in an underwriting and I'm like, yeah. First of all, you might not be able to because of the cable contract. Right. You might not be allowed to, and second of all, let's just assume you're able to do that, is that needed in your analysis to make the deal work? I sure hope it doesn't. You know, it doesn't mean that. James: Those who are learning this business, the biggest bulk of the deals that work is when you can bump up rent and you can reduce expenses if you can do these things is a big thing. So if you see any deals that you can, majority of your upside comes from here. You know, I don't look at adding more one or two washer and dryer, adding parking, adding wifi. That's what you said or sharing management. That's all right. Really the deal doesn't work at all. I think the sponsor's just trying to squeeze all kinds of juice and tell you that it's going to work, but in reality, it is really, really hard to make all that work. I mean that all that is just a bonus. If it works, it's good. Mark: Yeah, that's exactly right. And your total expenses, you could go up because the property taxes, but you know some of your points of your own, you reduce the expenses. I mean there are huge savings in water lots of times for operators. You can go in there and do repair and maintenance. We see lots of times you do as well, I'm sure were people are putting capital items in repair maintenance and they're like $1,400 a door per year. I mean that's a really high, right? So they're just putting stuff up there. If you go in and get a loan you're able to put capital in there and maybe do roofings and a/c and things like that, you can most likely bring your repair maintenance down more to industry standard. So for looking for those things, but if you don't know what those standards are, you know, you don't have any gauge. James: Sure, sure, sure. So we don't have to talk about your detail and analysis that you do, but on the sniff test that you have a quick analysis. So one of the few things that you would look at to, you know, kick out a project Mark: Return wise, I'll look at, you know, we still shoot for like a 10% cash on cash return, which is getting harder James: 10% with the IO on year one, I guess. Mark: Yeah. Overall or if the product is a five-year project, 10% cash in cash, 15% plus IRR and 100%; 100% is getting harder on five years, frankly for a lot of properties, closer to six. In some markets, it's more than that, but usually we try to stay in six and below to double the money. And then I'm looking at other things like, you know, what cap rate are they using? You know, on their exit, how they get the current cap rate, the broker. I mean, I had someone, no joke, in Florida called me and said- it wasn't Miami, by the way- they said, Oh, the broker told me the cap rate is 3 and a half. You know what I mean? So those types of things, right. So you can make any deal work. It's on a piece of paper, James: Just change the exit cap rate. Mark: Exactly right. I have an example, I do in our workshop where I'm like, you know this, and then you do the cap rate down to two, what does it do? And then, you know, other things are going to be more round, you know, total income growth over the first couple of years. What does it look like? You know, I'll see sometimes people think we're going to grow income 30%. I'm not saying it's impossible to do that, but I see a property as, you know, 92% occupied and you go up 30%, your total income in a year is pretty high so you need to have justification for that. So basically we look at a lot of different gauges, break-even occupancy, break-even reds and then the financing. You know, people don't understand financing well enough. Lots of times as far as what the hell they're going to do that. James: It can make or break a deal. Right? So let's look at like the rent growth and the exit cap rate, right? So how do you differentiate these rent growth and exit cap rate on this like five different markets there? Mark: Well the market cap rates, so we always start with the submarket cap rate, doesn't matter which property it is. And we have different ways to get that through reports and things like that. And then we put an escalator on it, an annual escalator, and it'll be different between ABC assets. And we have some ranges there. Some markets actually, you know, Dallas has gotten compressed so much on class C, you know, it was like eight and a half percent in '13. Now, it's like five cap for a lot of properties and you don't know if it's ever gonna go back. So we'll usually use you know, minimum 0.1 up and then up to a 0.2 for a year. So it could be, you know, full a hundred basis points on a five-year exit and a lot of it's depending on the property and location. I mean some of them, some of the markets that the cap rates the banks compressed there but they haven't compressed as much as like Dallas. I mean they might've been..I'll just make an example, say Dallas eight and a half. Now it's five and the market there might have been seven and a half and now it's six. So it went down, you know, one and a half percent total. But we'll actually, we'll look at the property, the type of property that, you know, the age of it as a class and then the demographics and we'll add an escalator on an annual basis for it. So each year it escalates up. James: But how do you decide that? So for example, I think in Texas a lot of people uses 3% rent growth, right? Even though some cities are different. Mark: Well, no, for rent growth we usually use 2%. This is across the board, across all markets after year two. Your first two years as you know, you might have come in and you're increasing rents, rephase revenue in and things like that. After year two, the general statement is going to be 2%. James: What about expenses? Mark: Two. James: Okay, so 2% income growth. 2% on year two onwards I guess. Which makes a lot of sense. I mean, you're not really counting for the first year for value add. Mark: Right and it might be higher. I mean some people were like in Dallas, you know, seven and a half percent rent increase growth for a while. And people were like, I'm like, but that's like today, one point in time it's proved where, you know, Dallas rent increases have gone down considerably. It's still a great market, I like the market. I don't really buy here right now, but you can't count on today. Or someone will say, Hey, the economic vacancy is 6% and I'm like, yeah, but I mean, good for them. But you can't count on that. James: You can't count on that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, yesterday there was a national multifamily trend report which shows I mean Dallas is below national average in terms of rent growth, right? So San Antonio and Austin, Austin has been always higher than national rent growth but San Antonio is higher than national rent growth. I never seen that San Antonio being higher than Dallas. I mean it's just cities change. You have to be really conservative in your underwriting. Mark: I think people are like, enough is enough, right? When rents go up, you know, seven plus percent for a few years in a row, people are like, you know. And it doesn't mean it's a bad, bad market. I mean, there are 150,000 people a year here that moved to, [41:07unclear] you know, net. So there's great jobs and population growth. I've been arguing that for a while. It doesn't matter all those things happen. At some point in time, people will say enough is enough. James: Yeah. People can't pay anymore. Mark: In a 2% increase in their wage or whatever they get in 7% in rent, you know, four years in a row, it has a big impact on them. James: Absolutely. Absolutely. But how do you like for example, in your experience, because you're working on multiple markets, right? I mean apart from Texas, which has seen a good rent growth, I mean, I think even Florida is seeing a good rent growth. I do not know what other markets house in Tennessee, Alabama and I think... Mark: Georgia is good as a whole. I mean some markets and we bought in a place called Gainesville, Georgia, not Florida. The property has done phenomenal. But that's a secondary market for sure. It's about 45 minutes from Atlanta, but it's like, you know, a 7% rent growth right now. Same with Dalton, Northeast, you know, almost close to Chattanooga rent growths. Florida, like you said, is high; parts of Georgia is definitely high. Alabama and Tennessee, I would say are mediocre, frankly, they're just going to be average. Now, Memphis in general, the random amounts are lower, but the rent growth there is quite high right now from a percentage standpoint. But you know, the starting with rents, half of Dallas, wherever it is, right. So it's proportional, but the percent of rent growth in Memphis is actually quite high right now. The last I saw, it was in the top 10 in the country. James: Oh really? Okay. Okay. And what about the exit cap rate? Right. So usually, I mean the usual underwriters, people use like one, to 0.2 more than what the market is. Do you use the same exit cap rates in the other markets? Mark: We take the current and we'll add...so let's say the current was a six cap, we'll add 0.1 per year, 0.20 per year. And in some cases like to your point, and so like that's to the end of five years, you would've gone from a six to a seven. And in some markets, yeah, we'll be, you know, if we're going to be doing a 0.15 in a certain market and we're like, well, maybe this market isn't quite as attractive or in the past it hasn't performed quite as well, we might do the 0.20. At the end of the day, I mean, as you know, nobody knows what the cap rates going to do. We can all guess. And the important thing to consider is that you know, the cap rate has no impact on your cash flow per se. It's really more of a capital event like a refi or a sale, things like that. So if you can still cash flow and you know, get good returns, then you know, you wait to sell when it makes more sense to sell. James: Correct. What about a loan wise? Have you guys been doing a longterm agency debt or you've been doing some short term loans as well? Mark: We do about a third of the deals we do prior bridge, but not necessarily short term is still up to five years. So it's not short term really. And the rates are attractive and there's, you know, a lot of advantages too. Bridge and some disadvantages, but there are a lot of advantages. I like them, especially in the big value add deals from what you have to get them. And then we do Fannie, Freddie, and then a number of bridge frankly. James: Got it. Got it, got it. So I mean, you work with a lot of you know, students who are trying to come up in this industry, right? So can you describe one characteristic of a student who made them really successful you know, sponsor on their own? Mark: Okay. Characteristic is, I mean, you know, if you want to say grit, not giving up, but as far as a whole, it's getting really good at something that really, you know, one skill set. You don't have to know everything about multifamily necessarily to get started. You have other people there to help you. But getting really good at something that's a value to somebody else. And it sounds like, okay, that's kind of obvious. Well, we've seen it work time and time again where someone, all they do is pretty much come in and just find deals. That's where the specialty is. They don't want to raise money or sign the loan or know things like that. But I think it's being patient, you know, when you have to wait a year, potentially. I waited a year to get my first deal. That's a long time, you know, to wait. And then you look back on it, it's like, that's not a long time to wait when you started buying more deals or you're like trying to do something new and you're spreading, you know, 12 months before you get a deal that can be frustrating. So just being patient. James: Yeah. Especially when people are already committed, I'm going to do this. Mark: Yeah, some people give something up to do it. James: Yeah. I mean, I really just remember there's not much deals out there. So, you know, finding that one deal that makes sense takes time. Right. It's not easy, If it was easy, everybody would do it. Mark: That's right. That's right. Okay. James: So coming back to your personal side of it. I mean, is there any proud moment in your life that you think I would remember that moment? That one particular moment in your experience in your real estate venture? Mark: Yeah. That's a great question actually. I would say when I got that third deal and it closed because I had already decided if I close that deal, I was going to stop doing IT. So when I got that third deal and said, Hey...my son kept asking me cause I kept looking for deals when he's like, if you get that deal, can you stop doing IT? Cause he was seeing me work so much. And so when I got that that was huge for me, for my family. James: Got it. That was a transition point of view, getting away from IT to real estate, I guess. Mark: Right, right. And making the decision, like you said, to do it full time. James: Yeah. It's a hard decision, especially if you're already used to a certain industry. And what has been, you know, paying your bills, right. Mark: Paying your bills, which is great. And you know, the other thing, unfortunately, when I was doing IT, that was kind of my self-worth. That's where I got my value. I wasn't really good at a lot of things, but for some reason, my mind just worked that way. And so I got my self-worth out of my job. So to give that up, you know, it is a big thing. And you don't know how successful you're going to be or not in your new adventure. So, but I mean, the best decision I ever made. James: Yeah. I mean, you brought up a good point. Sometimes that whole industry, what you study for, define you 20, 30 years in your life and suddenly, you are changing your complete identity. I mean, it's a big thing, right? I mean, a lot of people do not want to do that. If they're known as engineer or a CPA or the IT guy, they don't want to know, what! Suddenly this guy's doing real estate. Mark: Oh yeah. I mean, my CPA said, what are you doing? He did. Now he doesn't say it anymore. He did. He said, what are you doing? You're making a lot of money doing IT, why are you not doing it anymore? I mean, you know, he couldn't even comprehend it. James: Yeah. And I have to mention this; when I was in IT, when I was an engineer, you know, I always think that people in IT, people who are engineers are really smart guys. So these are the smartest guys because that's what your circle is, right? Your circle of friends is there. You think this guy's smart solving problems. And I mean, I did my MBA, it was really eye-opening because I realized there are a lot smarter guys than me with a lot more money in the financial industry. So that was a big aha moment. And that's where I realized that you know, you have to go into business to make a lot more money. And there are a lot of other smarter guys in other smarter professions out there that make a lot more money. And so, I mean, before I forget what is the most valuable value add that you've seen in all your deals? What would you do in case your rehab budget got cut into half in a deal? Mark: Oh, you mean from a CAPEX? James: Capex wise, yes. Mark: You know, one, people need to be...if the property looks like junk outside...I've been in properties that look good on the outside and they're not that great on the inside. But you need something outside to kind of attract you. And it could just be paint, you know, something so it's not dreary and dark, dark colors, you know, but using something a little bit more attractive color-wise for paint. Landscaping, simple stuff to do. It's basically thinking about what does a tenant see? When people say I'm going to do, you know, electrical work and you know, things like that. It's like the plumbing, stuff like that need to be done, but tenants don't see that. So first start with the outside and see what the tenants, you know, whether they go up to the office and it's kind of decked out. Sometimes we'll spend a lot of money around the office to kind of put a lot of landscape in there and make it really nice, exterior wise. Interior, I mean, paint, it's pretty easy to do. Flooring is huge just from a maintenance standpoint. So if you can do it, but as you know, it's not that cheap to do floor and then we'll like resurface countertops. I wouldn't do cabinets and stuff like that if you don't have the budget for it. I wouldn't do appliances unless they need them. You're not going to get the bang for the buck for that. Again, people will see paint, they'll see flooring and they'll see like maybe surface countertops, paint the cabinets, things like that. But some people have really high aspirations. They want to do all these things, but at the end of the day, you're not living in the property so don't outdo the market. I won't be the first guy to prove something in a market, I let other people prove it first. But I would say for sure start with the outside. We start like with landscaping and paint, stuff like that. People can see that. James: Got it, got it. Awesome. Mark. So we're at the end of the podcast. Do you want to tell our audience and listeners how to get hold of you? Mark: Yes. An email address is Mark@thinkmultifamily.com and love the chat with anybody and I really, really appreciate you spending time with me today, James. James: Sure, sure. Absolutely. Thanks for coming over. You had a lot of value. And I really like going across markets here because sometimes it's hard to find someone who has done deals in different markets, right. Because it's important. A lot of people want to do markets everywhere. I mean, there are deals everywhere so you just have to buy it right and you have to analyze it right. And, you know, just make sure the numbers work and the location works. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, Mark. Mark: All right, James. Appreciate your time. James: Absolutely. Thank you. Bye.

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The Q - 425 - POGAN

Ambitious. Lifestyle. Business. Podcast.

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2019 94:04

EXPLICIT CONTENT!!!!!! Parental Guidance is SUGGESTED HEAVILY! NOBODY HAD HURT FEELINGS IN THE MAKING OF THIS! NOBODY! On this episode of the Q, Marcus and Cecil of The Soulardians podcast joined Mark to discuss their show and everything else in their world. First up Mark and the guys discuss their political positions. Cecil focuses much more heavily on the local STL scene when dealing with Politics, where Marcus doesn't put it out there all that much. From there, the guys discuss Candace Owens and her new push to be Anti-Vax and tell people something special about HPV. Find out what our friend Candace said.... Next, Mark and Cecil start talking about conspiracy theory and podcasting. Of course Rogan comes up and it's so easy to say his name and " You're listening to Rogan!" So Mark gets a unique idea to try and see how it works. Probably will fail, but oh well. This finally leads to a discussion about the new Marijuana Laws and how Joe Biden and Bloomberg and all the different people are kinda spinning their support for and against the drug as it becomes a larger national focus. Finally, Mark puts The Soulardians on the HOTSEAT! They answer the questions and we all enjoy an interesting cultural discussion that pops up. If you would like to listen to the Soulardians, you can find more info here: thesoulardians.com/

Whoops...

Round Table SKAAM

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2019 19:16

So Mark screwed up, and we lost a podcast, but deadlines are deadlines, damn it! Alex and Mark talk about the project thus far and streaming culture as it relates to fandoms they enjoy. How long will it take for Star Trek to be brought up? Is Star Wars better? And what is the long-term feasibility of this endeavor? It's the episode they tried to hide from their wives!Tell us how much we suck at rtskaam@gmail.comunfollow us at @rtskaam

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#ALB57 - The man who stood on an IED

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 2, 2019 83:34

ALB57 – The Man who stood on an IED Who is Mark Ormrod? On Christmas Eve, 2007 Royal Marines Commando, Mark Ormrod was out on a routine foot patrol in the Helmand Province of Afghanistan when he stepped on and triggered an Improvised Explosive Device. He was airlifted via helicopter to an emergency field hospital when an innovative and dangerous procedure saved his life. He woke up three days later back in the UK with both legs amputated above the knee and his right arm amputated above the elbow. He was the UK's first triple amputee to survive the Afghanistan conflict. Doctors told Mark that he'd never walk again and that he should prepare himself for the rest of his life in a wheelchair. Mark thought otherwise, though. And he hasn't used a wheelchair since 2009. Today, Mark Ormrod is a motivational speaker, performance coach, mentor and role model to other amputees, and an ambassador for the Royal Marines Association. He's also the star of a documentary called "No Limits," gold medal winning athlete at the Invictus Games, and is currently writing the follow up to his 2010 autobiography, "Man Down." Mark the Royal Marine…. Mark joined the Marines heated and focused and just wanted to grow as an individual and squeeze the most out of this short time that we get on the planet. Mark finished his training when he was 18. Just a young lad, who by his own admission put a green beret on his head, and thought he was Rambo. Mark spent a couple of years just enjoying it. He was born and bred here in Plymouth. He say’s “once you earn that beret you walk around your chest out a little bit”, he got in a little bit in trouble, the first couple years, but then he knuckled down, and got focused. Mark has always been that kind of forward driven kind of way. Mark the Marine, in the beginning, young, loving life, full of energy. Just out there being a lad. As we all do as we get older and we progress in our careers and our lives, we mature a little bit. Mark made a lot more mistakes back then, but he learnt from them, and moved on, some of the quote-unquote failures that he experienced, and the mistakes that he made, made Mark feel a bit down about them, but as he’s got older he’s realised, they weren't really failures, as he’s learnt from them, they were mistakes, but again, he’s learnt from them. People always ask Mark has he always been this way, has he always been motivated, driven, and the short answer is yes. But from his perspective, it took him losing both his legs and right arm for him to see it. Mark’s first taste of combat….. Mark was 19 when he had his first taste of combat. He had started his training in February 2001. 62 young lads started, only 12 of them made it through the training. Four weeks before Mark finished his training, and was halfway through the live fire exercises, he was in the NAAFI and witnessed 9-11. So Mark passed out and become a Royal Marine, it was looking likely that Mark would be deploying to Afghanistan early 2002 for ‘Operation Jacana’. Now, for whatever reason, that didn't happen to the scale it was meant to be. It became quite a SS, Special Forces kind of thing. So Mark didn't go after all, but then Iraq came around 2003. That then became his focus, Mark was one of the first guys on the ground, working out of what's called now 30 Commando. Mark spent a couple weeks in Kuwait, just waiting, sat in trenches, just on that border of Kuwait, Iraq, ready to go over, he got given the signal and went. Mark came away from that tour feeling a little bit disappointed. He was all geared up, ready to put to test everything he had been training for but that didn’t happen, he thought he was going to be down on his belt buckle with a bayonet in his teeth crawling through the sand and doing this for three months solid, because he was a young lad and thought that's what going to war was. What happened next? So, Mark came home, despite the lack of activity in Iraq he still felt like he had evolved a lot. He went to Norway a couple of times, endured some survival training out in the snow. Mark then boxed for the Marines a spot had come up for the boxing team, and he thought that would be all right, he would do a little bit of training in the morning and go home in the afternoon. He underestimated that, four hours every morning, four hours every afternoon for eight weeks solid. But Mark began to think about the fact, he hadn't really done what it was that he wanted to do. His first daughter Kezia came along early 2005 and the combination led to Mark making the decision to leave the Royal Marines in early in 2006. Mark ended up working as a night doorman for a little bit. Mark was entitled to some money through the re-education system in the military, and flew out to South Africa, to retrain as a bodyguard, he was now 22 years old at that point, and thought he’d be walking around in an Armani suit, talking into his cuff, diving around protecting celebrities and that isn't what the job entails. In fact he struggled to get a job , despite having a green beret, despite having experience at war, despite having qualified at a really prestigious close protection training school in South Africa people wouldn't take him on, because he didn't know anybody to get my foot in the door. Time to re-join the Royal Marines………. So, after a little period of soul searching, life not going great, really not happy with the way things were heading, Mark decided to re-join the Marines, which he did early 2007. He re-joined to 40 Commando who are based up in Taunton, and were next in the roster to go to Afghanistan. Mark did have a choice where he could have gone, it was either the Commando training centre in Exmouth which is a non-deployable unit, or 40 Commando who are next on the rotation. And he kind of felt it would have been a good tour for him. He didn't know what to expect. He was basing it on my tour in Iraq, but because his life wasn't where he wanted it to be, he thought it would be healthy to get out of the country, just get away from all the distractions and things going on, reassess his life, reprioritize, come back and take it in a more positive direction. So, he asked to go to 40 Commando, Mark got to the unit, went through all the pre-deployment training, and he knew from the minute he did that it was going to be different because the training was different. It was a lot more intense, a lot more in detail. Mark deployed for Afghanistan the 7th of September, 2007. Christmas Eve 2007 – Christmas Eve, Mark and a group of his friends were called up to the headquarters compound and given a brief on the next foot patrol. It was a very brief brief, because the idea was that we they would leave the rear entrance of their camp in two sections with eight men in each section. One goes north, one goes south. They were told to patrol the immediate perimeter of the camp and not go any more than 300 metres. Before that, these patrols would be out for four, five, six miles. Eight, nine, ten hours. It was just a quick get your boots out on the ground, show the enemy watching you that you're still out there doing something, even though we're not really doing anything, come back in the front entrance of the camp, so now the opposite side, and then you have a couple of days R&R, open your cards and care packages from home, and try your best to enjoy Christmas, given the circumstances. When Mark and his fellow marines had nearly completed this routine foot patrol, Mark was required to get down on to his stomach, and as his right knee hit the floor, he knelt on and detonated an Improvised Explosive Device. Mark goes into detail about what happened immediately after this happened in the podcast. Strict procedures and processes got Mark out of there quickly and safely…… The team completely followed the procedure, from a military perspective, the key is discipline. It's the discipline that's beaten into them from day one. That there are these procedures and systems in place for a reason. And the reason is, it saves lives. And that's exactly what it did for Mark that day. Mark is told he will never walk again……….. Mark spent about four days trying to process what the Dr had told him and then figured out a plan forward. He didn’t know anything about being disabled. About six days after a guy came to visit Mark. His name was Mick Brennan, he had been injured in Iraq 2005. He walked into the hospital room with two prosthetic legs above the knee And he sat down and told Mark his story, told Mark what he had achieved, what Mark could expect to achieve. Mark started to research triple amputees, prosthetics, just searching all over the world to see anybody who had his injuries that was living their life without being confined to a wheelchair. And he found some people and that was a massive motivator. In that instant, the impossible became possible. What Mark has achieved since is truly remarkable, but you will have to click play to discover just how remarkable. For links to everything we talk about, including the video recording of the episode and transcription of everything we talked about, head over to the show notes at bigidea.co.uk/podcast. And to watch the LIVE recording of each episode of the Ambitious. Lifestyle. Business. Podcast, join our Facebook Group for FREE - you can then watch our ugly mugs in glorious technicolour every month, as well as get BONUS in-between-isodes, and direct access to both of us to ask any questions about this, or any other episode.

Three Trends in Digital Advocacy You Should Know

Engineering Influence from ACEC

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 26, 2019 31:16

ACEC welcomes political consultant Mark Bryant of Agency Advisors onto the show to discuss the changing nature of issue advocacy in the age of big data and the internet. Mark discusses three main themes during the interview: message packaging, message delivery and measurement and how each can be utilized to maximize the return of an issue advocacy campaign. During the interview Mark and Engineering Influence host Jeff Urbanchuk discuss tactics and tools that can help advocates better tailor their messages during the development of an integrated issue campaign. Some of those resources are listed below:Useful Reference Information:Optimal Social Media Image and Video Sizes Social Media Video Tips and StrategiesData Visulaization Tools:TableauSocial Analytics Tools:Sprout Social HootsuiteInfographic Creation Tools:Adobe SparkCanva Transcript:Host: Welcome to another edition of ACEC's podcast, Engineering Influence. Today we're pleased to welcome Mark Bryant to the show. Mark is a wealth of information when it comes to the world of advocacy, message development and message delivery. We wanted Mark to stop by at the show because the world of advocacy is changing the same tactics and tools, the big name brands use to target consumers with advertising can be used in advocacy to create well-designed, executed and measured communications campaigns, technology, especially the internet. And the rise of social media changed the way we communicate and it's continuing to change by the day. And we'd like to give our members an overview of current trends and communicating and what you should think about when it comes to crafting an issue, advocacy campaigns. So Mark, welcome. And if you could start by telling us not only what you do with agency advisors, but what do you do for clients?Mark Bryant: Jeff, thank you so much for having me today. So, so we at agency advisers, we like to say we bring we bring new tech to candidates. Causes in the agencies that work on their behalf. And by way of a new tech, we mean sort of data, digital and analytics capabilities that are, that are, that are coming into the market to help public affairs advocacy practitioners, advance legislative and regulatory agendas. We work with trade associations like the ACEC in a consultative capacity. We're in, we often open with a presentation on trends and innovation in, in advocacy. We tend to focus sort of along a continuum. We start with ways in which people are packaging messaging more effectively these days ways in which people are delivering those messages more efficiently, often times clearly to decision makers and those who influence them.Mark Bryant: And then we end with ways in which those messages are being measured or the degree to which methods to measure the degree to which are your message is getting through. So our job is to essentially be a resource to practitioners that want to leverage. This is a, this is an extraordinarily sort of complex ecosystem, right? The number of providers in the sort of data digital and analytics sort of ecosystem category is, is changing quickly and, and, and is just almost on an on manageable.Host: The minute you think you have a handle on it, everything changes.Mark Bryant: Absolutely. And, you know, they come, they go but there are, there are certain things that really catch our attention as particularly compelling and impactful.Host: So trends, I mean everybody loves trends focusing on trends. And I understand you have really three big trends that you want to kind of talk to us about today.Mark Bryant: Sure, absolutely. So, within the context of, of those, those three sort of big areas of focus again, packaging, messaging, delivering messaging and, and measuring the efficacy of messaging. The first is around helping how people are packaging messaging most effectively today. And, and and a lot of people talk about this, not many people leverage it to the extent possible. And that is video, right? There's no better method of conveying a very sort of complex issue position to a lawmaker to, to a constituent of a lawmaker to virtually anyone that then by way of a, by way of a video, by basically telling your story in a format that's easily, readily sort of digestible and compelling. Right. we, we think that we love video not just because of its efficacy but, but also because of its utility.Mark Bryant: So, so here there are couple of ways in which people are leveraging video that, that, that, that not, not everyone thinks about one today. In-Person engagement. So meetings with law makers and staffers often begin with a video. So the, literally the lobbyist, the government affairs, the government relations professional walking in to a lawmaker's office with a staffer, with a staff and a legislator, and they'll start with a video. They'll, they'll bring their tablets and bring their laptops. We'll start with a two, three, four minute video, which explains the organization's issue position in a clearly, you know, well thought out, methodical manner. There are oftentimes what are considered motion graphics or animated videos which really speak to the impact of a policy outcome on our lawmakers state or district. And so that, that starts a conversation, right? That's sort of sets the table, sets the stage and that yields a very sort of interactive that that leads to a very sort of dynamic and interactive conversation based on you know, a set of facts that were laid out and you know, in, in that, in that video format.Mark Bryant: What's nice about that is you leave that office, that video stays behind you. You're government affairs, law lobbyists and government affairs professional, your lobbyist, they, walk away and that video stays and those lawmakers and staffers can share that video with other staffers, with committee members of subcommittee members, right? There's, there's great utility there. What can also be done, what's extraordinarily impactful is to sort of repackage or reformat that two, three, four minute video into a six second, a 15 second, a 3 second format, which can be leveraged in an ad campaign, right. To keep your issue top of mind among those lawmakers and staffers long after you leave. And that same, those same formats because people and the reasons six second 15, second 30 second are commonly used is because they can th th th they're, they're they're well-suited for different mediums.Mark Bryant: So you want to be in front of that staffer when he or she wakes up when he or she is, you know, en route to the office. Potentially. It depends upon their, you know, their mode of transportation throughout the course of the day, you know, when they get home through connected TV, when they wrap up their day with a little social media, you know, scanning, if you will. So, so it's, it's fascinating. You can, you can package that message to stay top of mind among those, those lawmakers and staffers. Again long after, long after you leave, you can also leverage those same videos to engage like-minded groups, to make others aware of the issue position, sort of pull them in to the discourse or the dialogue or, or to to, to extend your message beyond just as lawmakers and staffers. And then finally you can use those same messages to inform the constituents of the law makers that are important to you.Mark Bryant: And you might reformat further to end that with a call to action. Right? So you might, you might educate again, constituents within a state or the district of the lawmaker that matters and ask them to make a phone call, ask them to send an email, ask them to, to, to post something on social media that's relevant to that issue position.Host: Yeah. And that's, that's all good points because I think something that really get across is the idea that one piece of you can't really look at a piece of content as a piece of content and, and as a singular thing, like, okay, check the box. We did a video. You have to look at, we have a video, so how else can we break this down and reuse it and repackage it because there are so many different mediums right now to send out.Mark Bryant: That's right. That's right.Host: You could host the video of course first on YouTube and that gives you pretty much a, a wide audience that you can draw from it and it's easily accessible. But then you need to repackage that for Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and they all have different requirements. That's right. And it's something that I'll make sure to put into the show notes for this episode. Some guidelines about different platforms and their requirements, but it's something to keep in mind about when you're producing content, like a video that focuses on your message that you do in such a way where you're thinking ahead those steps so that when you're developing the message, you're make making the two minute video with a mind to saying how can I now cut that back down? How can I take that two minute video and make it a 30 second, a 15 second...Mark Bryant: And not only for, for, for different mediums if you will, at different formats for different mediums, but for different audiences, right? Because your audience, your YouTube audience may be quite different than your Snapchat audience. Right? And so you want to think about right, how many sort of permutations, right, of that message you need for the with the, with the audience targeting in mind, right? If it's lawmakers and staff you know, that's, that's one, one consideration if it's constituents or, or very specific segments of the population within a lawmakers, state or district. That's a whole different set of considerations.Host: Absolutely. And I think that, you know, even the first, you know, when you brought up video, I think a lot of people are still keyed on that traditional, okay, I'm coming in, I've got my folder, my folder has my talking points, my folder has a brochure or a written piece of material, which I'm going to present to the lawmaker or, or that lawmakers staff.Host: And they're saying, okay, video, why would I want to use video instead of written material, which I know is on paper. And I'm going to hand it to them and, and you know, that's, you know, I can email to them. So what's the benefit of video over a written piece of material for the person consuming that information?Mark Bryant: So I think one, it's additive, right? I don't, I don't think video necessarily replaces the more traditional, you know means or methods of communicating. Clearly the, the video is meant to, to to, to generate the diet, to set the stage to as somewhat of a springboard into the dialogue. Yeah. Right. That, that you'd like to have occur, right. In the context of that meaning it, and I think it's highly complimentary or additive, right? So you want to, I think in many cases our observation our experience has been the, those, those, other materials are still part of the sort of protocol, if you will.Mark Bryant: Video is quite additive and you're, you're, you're well aware of the statistics. Yeah. I would imagine that studies have shown that people remember 10% of what they hear. Yeah. 20% of, of what they read and 80% of what they see.Host: We're very visual creatures.Mark Bryant: Very, very good. Absolutely. So if you can all the rubber and bring the, you know, the full arsenal, tip it to bear. Right, right. So there's sort of the different elements, components each meaning there are different dynamics. Right. So, so, so to have a video as a, as a starting point is, is we're, we're finding to be again, extremely impactful.Host: Yeah, exactly. Then that's why, you know, a lot of people are now recording their podcasts and video. Because they want to have both, they want to have the audio, but they also want to have the video, two different audiences, two different ways of consuming the media. Yes. Same kind of content. Yes. But you're thinking and treating it differently because you know that you'll want to have a diversity of, of audiences reaching your material because your audience in the car is completely different than the person sitting at home who has found YouTube flipping through things and find something that they want to watch. So that, that's really important. That's a, that's an important trend. And that's really on, on a question of packaging your message, which is something that you really need to take a real thought, full approach for towards, before you actually start down the road of, of, you know, considering what's going to be in your you know, your, your campaign. The other trend that you mentioned is more focused on delivering that message. Right? And getting that message to the right people. So what are given the fact that we have so many different mediums that we can choose from? Sure. You know, what's, what are some of the trends related to actually messaged delivery?Mark Bryant: Yeah, it's fascinating. So how do you get that message once you packaged it? Right. And you have to define the sort of the, the, the, the right, you're determined the right message for the right audience, right? And the right format. How do you get those messages in front of people in a very efficient, in front of decision makers and those who influence them and in a very efficient manner. So we find most fascinating is what's characterized as social graphing, right? So clearly I can get to you Senator I, I can, I can get my message to you and your staffers by way of, and you're probably very familiar with geo-fencing as an example. So, so I can by way of a technology which allows me to draw, you know, a circle or a polygon around a location. I can serve my message, right?Mark Bryant: But by way of video as an example to mobile devices within that location, right. And geo-fencing, there are, it's while it sounds very straight forward, the notion of, okay, I want to deliver my message to everyone in Senator Warner's office, right? There are some nuances or complexities which, which people now are beginning to understand that they need to do I wanna hit people that had been in Senator Warner's office with great frequency over the course of the last year? Do I want to reach people that were in Senator Warner's office as it related to a specific fly-in, right? Who do I want to do it? Do I want to eliminate the infrequent visitors? How far back do I want to look? I can look back a year and I can determine, okay, who are the most frequent visitors in, in Senator Warner's office over the course of the last year?Mark Bryant: And I can get my message to those people, whether they're in the office or not. So, so geo-fencing is, is, is become embraced by the association community as a, as a means by which they can get their message in front of lawmakers and staffers efficiently and cost effectively and cost effectively. Right? And you don't, ah, fascinating. So not only do you have look back windows and the ability to, to make some decisions around which segment of the audience you want to reach, you have the ability to reach folks that may be in the district offices. So this is a, so that look back window is it relates to the Capitol office. You can also reach people back in district offices. You can you can reach people again, as I mentioned outside of the office. So there are even very sophisticated methods of geo-fencing homes in an anonymized fashion, right?Speaker 3: So you want to get to that. I want to ensure that I get to that staffer. So they're consuming content and they're at home and it's in the evening and, and, and, and and they're exposed to that. Does that message, this is all that, all that data, the minute you carry your phone with you, this is all the stuff is being collected in and now people are starting to filter through it and realize you can, Ew, that's there. You can go back. You can target people very, very specifically. I mean, that's the point where you can trigger someone in a room. Well, and that, and that. And that brings up that I think, one of the more exciting sort of trends. And that's around social graphing. Okay. And so the ability to reach everyone or, or a number of quite a few folks within Senator Warner's personal network, right?Speaker 3: So if you think about who does Senator Warner interact with sort of day in, day out, right? That can include friends, family members, business associates people with whom Senator Warner may work on within philanthropic organizations. Social media connections, clearly staff, donors. So there, there are capabilities now, there are companies that will define those social graphs that'll map. Yeah. Jeff's that work. Yeah. Right. and serve largely by way of social media content to those individuals. And it's even so, sort of a fascinating aspect of this is even before they serve the message, which may actually feature Senator Warner in the, in the creative and say, please, please tell Senator Warner to support the following. Our issue position they will secure if you will, quite a bit of engagement on that content before they put it in front of the people within the network of Senator Warner.Speaker 3: So those people within Senator Warner's network, we'll take note of that content because there's been so much engagement they perceive, right? I mean, and it's real in this case, perception is reality. That in fact this is an important issue. This is something to take note off because there's so much engagement, engagement being, you know, people have liked the, the, the content they've shared, the content they've commented on the content, right? There's, there's so much engagement around the content, they should pay attention to that content and they might then be more apt to engage Senator Warner on that particular issue.Host: So it's like the old, you know, battlefield idea of, you know, you, you're first, you prepare the ground and then you send your Calvary yet, right. You get, you make the most favorable environment through targeted messages that create the perception that's what this is is an issue of, of concern. And then you get them with the call to action.Mark Bryant: That's exactly right. It's fascinating. You're absolutely right. Sequencing is another thing that people are, are being far more deliberate about. What message do we get to whom in what order in order to make the greatest impact. Right? And so I, I think about just a, to add to your analogy, I think about the air cover before the ground floor, right? So, so, so back to fly ins, you know, people are geo-fencing, right? Before, so they're getting their message into the lawmakers office before they show up and then after they leave. So, so that issue that organization remains top of mind is it becomes a social graphing sort of very similar sort of sort of mindset around, again, let's go get lots of engagement on this content and then in a sequential fashion, put it in front of the people that are going to be in front of Senator Warner. And you imagine you take these techniquesHost: And you tie them in with traditional techniques that are the tried and true. Yes. So for example, if our flying that we did last may, you know, we didn't do the extent of geo-fencing or or or sequencing, but you know, you get an ad on radio, you get it out there, you start getting stuff into newspapers, editorials, you get your members who are doing fly-ins to do their local letters to the editor. So it kind of creates that presumption that something's happening. Then when they're there, or close to it. You hit them with digital advertising, which was targeted to those audiences that you want to hit. And then again, the follow through. Once it's done, you hit them again with another series of messages that pretty much it's the whole idea of, you know, tell them what you're going to say. Tell them and then tell them again. Yeah, that's right. And then make sure they have that lasting impact. You tie that in with traditional advertising, traditional, you know, direct earned media engagement, and then this more sort of the multiplier effect. And you can really make a Mark and that's solely from, you know, taking it from the perspective of a former Hill staffer. You can tell when an organization has it stuff together. When they do a fly in, either they come in and they just do their events and they have their meetings. But the groups that have that first, second, third touch are the ones that people take note. They stand out, they stand out. Yeah. So the big question on, of course, you know, that's the impact. Now I know you have a massive impact on the audiences that you're trying to persuade. But for an organization like ACAC, you know, you take all these steps, you prepare the message, you package it, you get deliver it. The big question is measurement, right? Which is the final trend I think that this is the most important thing because vertical the old days, you know, and even now with some of the baseline analytics that you get from the platforms that you're not paying for unless you're using like a sprout social or, or, or a Meltwater or something that's a paid program, the analytics that you get back are fairly broad. That's right. X amount of engagements.Host: Just like the idea of saying, okay, I'm going to buy an ad on radio in this DMA. This is how many people were probably going to be hearing this based off of this is our audience at that time. But you don't really know dollar equivalency saying that this article is the same as let's say, $10,000 worth of ad buy. That doesn't really matter anymore. What are the trends in measuring the effectiveness of these messages and these techniques? What's the big trend driving analytics?Mark Bryant: Sure. This is, so there are a number of of methods of measuring impact and, and potential efficacy. Pre-Campaign there are methods of measuring efficacy during the campaign. Yeah. There are measure methods of measuring efficacy. Post-Campaign the ultimate measure is did you win or lose? Well, yes, clearly, but, but however, you know, there are the reality is you need to report internally as to how well you're doing along the way internally and oftentimes externally, right? We find social and traditional media monitoring and impact analyses to be by far the most telling method of whether your message is actually getting through. Okay. Okay. So what does that mean? You mentioned a number of tools. Organizations have tools. Those tools are built to provide you intelligence as to what's being mentioned, who's mentioning those things. The, the how frequently those mentions are, are, are, are occurring. What, what's missing is telling sentiment analysis and recommendations as to what to do next. So some organizations have the internal expertise but it's it's challenging to sort of maintain that, invest heavily in that and maintain that over time.Mark Bryant: So what you find is organizations are often turning to third parties or making a real commitment to investing in internal resources to interpret the data, right? And now we're finding people using multiple platforms, social and traditional. It's important to mention, it's not just social media monitoring, the social and traditional media monitoring and impact analysis. So, human beings that are interpreting the data that the machines, you know, no matter how sophisticated, right? And in terms of leveraging machine learning natural language processing, everybody likes to call this AI. Yeah. Right? No matter how smart the tool, you still need the interpretation, right? So, so, so Linda here at the ACEC, Jeff, others, Steve, others they're gonna want to understand, well, what is, what does this mean? Right? Well, what are these mentions mean?Mark Bryant: And more importantly, what do we do next? Right? So organizations are leveraging social and traditional media monitoring in order to establish baselines or benchmarks. So before you then begin a campaign, whether paid or and or earned, right? What are people saying relative to your issue, right? What are they saying that's positive? What are they saying? This negative and who's saying it? Right? Establish that baseline, then launch your campaign made and, or earn, monitor, measure day in, day out. The degree to which their vernacular or the discourse is changing. Are people adopting your messaging? Right? And if they are, are they the right people? Right? Yeah. That's the big thing. The amazing thing. And there are instances where people push a certain messaging if you will. And there are unintended consequences. Something that the industry may have thought would be perceived very positively, was in fact perceived negatively.Mark Bryant: And that further informs messaging and strategies. So you begin by establishing a baseline, which informs your messaging and strategy, right? In the reverse order, your strategy and messaging, right? One in the same, in many case are very closely intertwined. Clearly. then you get in market with your messaging in market being, you know, getting the right message in front of the right people at the right time in order to drive policy outcomes. Right. And then your real time, again measuring the degree to which that's being received and interpreted. Exactly right. And so again, to what degree did the vernacular or the discourse change and that further informs messaging because what you do is you invest more heavily in the messages that seem to be resonating and you might eliminate messages that really fell flat. Right. And then at the, at the end of the campaign, you know, even post-campaign the legislation passed you know, to what degree, what kind of feedback or did you get some sort of post-campaign that you might leverage? So sort of in other initiatives. Yeah,Host: And that's a really interesting point because I remember back on my my time at the PR firm I was with and also on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee undertaking a large issue campaign or, or, or legislative initiative and building a campaign about that. It was constant measurement and it was the good old media content analysis. It was before, during and after. It was and is a lot of leg work and this is why you need to invest because it's looking at, okay, I'm going to take a look at all the media that we're getting. I'm going to assign that a score. I'm going to sign that a positive, negative, neutral score. Then I'm going to take that, I'm going to count that up and, and then I'm going to start doing some analysis of that data. How much has their share of voice in the conversation? What's our share of positive, negative, neutral? Who's writing about it, who isn't writing about it, do a gap analysis, who, where are the targets that we need to reach?Mark Bryant: Precisely. All those things in traditional media can now be tied in with analytics and a lot of platforms, like you said, are using machine learning AI to do these more qualitative now that's right. Assessments of of message effectiveness and it's, it's a really important thing. These are all things that you need to take into consideration when you're looking at doing a strategic plan. We just broach the surface, which is why we're going to have Mark back on because we want to use some case studies, especially as we get into the presidential cycle and things start heating up and talk about these individual trends in a little bit more depth. Absolutely. I also want to make sure that I put some, some information in the show notes for everybody who's listening to take a look at some data because there's a lot here to take advantage of and also to think about.Host: So I really appreciate the time that you've taken because we've covered a lot of stuff. This is, I love this topic. I could go on forever on this. But let's, let's hold off. Let's keep a little bit for the next time, right. We'll go into the specifics. But Mark Bryan of of it's, I'll tell you, it's, that is the changing world is something else and things are just insane and, and just are getting, are getting crazier by the day. When it comes to to getting your message across, but really appreciate you coming on the show. Well, I can't thank you enough again for having me and look forward to the next time, Jeff. Thanks

DE 18: The Potential of Rapid Wealth Creation when Investing in Multi-Family Units- with Mark Kenney

Commercial Real Estate Investing with Don and Eden

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 18, 2019 24:58

Currently, in control of 4,300 Multi-Family Units, Mark Kenney- a real estate investor, entrepreneur, and founder of ThinkMultifamily has an incredible amount of impact as an investor and businessman. Only starting to acquire larger deals five years ago, his ability to implement successful strategies when investing is apparent. With over twenty years in the real estate industry, his passion for the business has allowed him to gain an extensive amount of knowledge and insight into the valuation, acquisition, and operations behind a real estate deal. In this episode of Multifamily Real Estate Investments with Don and Eden, Mark Kenney discusses his beginnings as an IT entrepreneur and what exactly led him to move into the real estate arena and assisting investors with buying multi-family units. He also discusses the importance of partnering on deals in order to bring different skill sets to the table to make a deal successful and a good investment. Lastly, Mark advocates for the importance of giving back to others through different methods such as coaching, mentoring, and charity. Highlights: Mark’s Beginnings In Real Estate His IT Background (How It Is Applicable To The Real Estate World) How He Finds The Right Deal For Investors The Importance Of Giving Back Current Projects And Future Outlook How to Connect with Mark W: Think Multifamily E: Mark@thinkmulti-family.com ---------------------------------------- Transcription Hey guys, thank you for tuning in today. I'm going to host Mark Kenney. Mark is in control of forty-three hundred units. Think about that number for a second — the type of impact you have as an investor when you are affecting forty-three households. Well, not if you including vacancies. Okay, I think I'm losing it. So anyway what's even more amazing about that is that Mark only started to buy bigger deals five years ago. Potential of becoming extremely wealthy in a very short time is more than possible when you're dealing with multi-families, and that is what excites me so much about this. Also, Mark and I are going to talk about how important it is to partner up; especially on your first deal because people have different skill sets. You can't be good at everything, and there is a lot to do. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying for a second it's impossible to do this on your own. Everything is possible if you have the will and determination, but I'm just saying it's probably easier to do it when you have the right partner or partners. Okay, so without further ado Mark Kenney. Welcome to the real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden, where we cover all aspects of real estate investing with special attention to multi-family apartment buildings and off-market strategies. Hey Mark, how are you doing today? Welcome to the show. I'm doing well, thanks for having me. Yes, you're welcome. I believe you deserve it. I heard that now you're in control of forty-three hundred units, so that's amazing. Yeah, we didn't do it by ourselves, but it's been a journey. It's been fairly quick overall, but it's been fun. So I know that you started buying multi-families. I would say five years ago was it right? Yeah, I started buying a small multi-family twenty-five years ago, two to four units. Yeah. Then about five years ago started syndicating larger deals. Okay. So you were buying properties ever since you were out of college? If I'm correct, right? I was a senior in college, yes. Oh man. So tell us about that, that's interesting. Yeah. people are like, was your dad in real estate or someone else you knew? The reality was, no we didn't have anyone in our family or anyone that was an entrepreneur or anything. But I have an identical twin brother, and we were both like, man there has to be a better way for both. Kind of analytical, and I had no accounting background or I.T. background. At the time we were going to school for accounting, and we're like everyone needs a place to live. So why don't we look at real estate? We liked real estate ever since we were little, and just started buying small properties like two to four units, and it was a lot of properties. My dad kind of liked going on tours with us, and I don't think there's any property on the planet that my dad thought was a good enough deal to buy. So he kind of talked us out of a lot of deals and had a deal, talked us out of the contract. He talked us out of that deal. Quickly after that, I was getting a deal and didn't include him till after we closed. Don’t listen to your Dad, that's it, you say. I'd say well that your dad's qualified. My dad, in this case, wasn't qualified; he was doing whatever he thought to protect us. But the reality is, he's eighty-two. He's never bought a rental property his entire life and never will. So let's listen in the wrong person. Okay, so you were buying properties ever since you were very young. Did you continue doing that, or did you end up like just following your career of going to college and all that? We have, both. I ended up graduating in the CPA for a while at I.T. consulting but continued to buy small properties. We were buying them on our own. We didn't have any other people providing any equity to the deals; so my brother and I every couple of years would buy another property. We had several properties, but they were all a two to four-unit size. Okay. So when was that moment that you decided that you wanted to focus primarily on real estate, and not do anything else besides that? Yeah, so I had started an IT company in 2013. People where like, oh my gosh you started at the wrong time, but actually, it was all right, I mean 2008 ended up going well, but I had projects all over the place. I mean it was all of the world and things like that. I didn't sleep much, and I’d ignore my wife a lot. And again this is 2008 when I started doing it, and I just would take any project any deadline, didn't matter, I would make it happen. It caused a lot of problems in marriage because I was never available, and I just figured well that's the way I grew up. I just support the family that's my job. And so it came to a head, where my life to me was kind of like, yeah this isn't like working, something needs to change, and we both knew she liked real estate too. We got married young, and so she was pretty much there right after the first deal, where we bought over, twenty plus, twenty-two. So we said well if we're going to try to do something, there's no way we can replace my income at my own I.T. business. I can replace that with buying two to four-units every couple of years to happen. A friend of mine was syndicating in a deal. I didn't know what syndication was at the time, I invest passively with him, and I'm like huh. This seems like a good way, maybe to kind of get involved in deals to start my larger deals. I just told my wife, Camille, if we’re going to do this, we can do it together. I was on little sleep, and three hours a night, consistently doing IT, it was kind of hard for me. I need to do something different now. Did it have to be multi-family? No. I looked at, invested more in the stock market. It didn't do well there. I look at starting several different franchises, storage units, look at everything you possibly could think of pretty much and end up with multi-family. And that's kind of where we've started. We've been doing that since 2013; I guess it is when we first started investing in a multi larger multi-family. Okay, so let me see that I'm getting this right. So you're graduating out of college, and then you're starting to work in I.T. You're an I.T. consultant, and you're making, I know it's good money. So then you work very hard, right? You barely sleep, and you keep buying multi-families, but just smaller multi-family like, duplexes and triplexes? Then there is the point where you decide that you want to go for the bigger apartment complexes, and so that's when you choose to focus primarily on that using syndication. So I know your first big deal was sixty-four units. Am I right? That's the number right? That's correct. Yes. Yes, I did my homework. Good. So it was sixty-four units, and then that was syndication, right? It was about a million-dollar raise on a three-point nine on a million-dollar purchase price. Okay, So tell us more about that. How did you find a deal? Or did you bring the money? What was your part in the syndication? Yeah. So there was one other guy and me that were sponsors or leads on the deal. There was nobody else involved from a general partnership sponsorship team. And we kind of both found the deal, I mean we were on a broker list, and it was listed, but it was two different thirty-two units, and one of the thirteen was listed in the other. One wasn't even, though it's like three hundred feet away — the same seller. So we looked at the property was in a nicer mid 80s construction, built as condos originally. So a little bit nicer for development as well. And kind of like the deal it didn't require a lot of rehabs, it was maybe twenty-one hundred. Three thousand dollars a unit rehab, occupancy was in the low to mid-90s percentage-wise. It was just kind of a really good first deal, but it was really through broker relationships. My partner at the time had done more deals than I did, as far as larger. And really if I applied without him, I would've had a tough time getting that deal frankly. Okay so let's focus on that. So your partner he had done a lot of deals, but still he would take you onboard for a sixty-four-year deal which is very nice. So how did you create that relationship with that partner? He didn't do a lot. He had done two deals kind of before that, but I met him at a meetup. We kind of had similar goals. As far as what we're trying to do and decided to kind of look at some deals together. We looked at a number of deals. Know from my perspective, I was bringing in more analytical. My background was decent analyzing deals, and then also I was raising most of the capital. Okay. So how much time do you take from the moment that you decided you want to do real estate syndication and get into the bigger pool with the bigger properties to the moment that you ended up purchasing that property? Yeah, unfortunately, it took us about a year. Oh wow, that's a lot of time, and you get discouraged at that time. I still had my I.T. business. So it was, in fairness, I wasn't able to devote as much as probably some other people that maybe work forty to fifty hours. I was working so much, but I made it work. I probably could've got something quicker, and I think in reality I was over-analyzing things to the point where I was nervous and scared to submit a letter of intent. I had every answer to every question, and at the end of the day, you're never going to have ever answered every question. So I got more comfortable where I know you engage experts in certain areas in a letter of intent, is the beginning point. And if it moves forward from there, you're going to gather more information. A deal might continue to work or it might not. But I got more comfortable submitting a letter of intent to brokers for more deals and that's the first, probably half a year I was nervous about doing that and didn't submit very many. Now I don't have a well-defined criterion. I looked at everything from say from eight units eight hundred units, and I wasn't going to buy either of those number wise. So I don't know if I wasted my time doing that. Frankly. It’s important to get a concrete defined criterion for what you're looking for, and it can change over time, but when you're talking to brokers and investors, it's important to have that. Yeah, I would agree, but what I think back in a day when you started doing these deals then, I think it would, it was, maybe a little bit easier to find a deal. Now for somebody to get started investing syndication and finding a deal, the first two I'm not talking about your second third, when you already have the relationship the connections, the expertise and the knowledge talking about the first deal now. I don't think a year in today's market is that much of a time to act and it's not. Yeah, it's in my first deal, right. It's not a lot, right? It's pretty reasonable; I think, right? Yeah, I think we have a great coaching group and stuff like that too, but we have many people that have gotten in, six months or less into a deal. But in fairness, if they do try to do it on their own with no partner that has no track record, you go try to a broker with your experience and say well I'm just new, you're trying to buy one hundred unit deal. It's going to be challenging for someone to do that. If they can find someone that they partner with that they know they need to add value to each other and things like that, you'll get quicker for sure. But you see a year it's like you said it's a long time. But once you get your first one, generally speaking, it does go faster to get future deals definitely, and you've already talked about that. So you made your first deal five years ago six-four units, and now you're holding forty-three hundred units, or you're in control for three hundred units which are a lot. I don't think I've ever heard about somebody that had, increased a portfolio that fast. So first of all, what I want to ask is, how did you do it so fast? I mean that's very impressive. And yeah, I mean there are. I think it's, I tell people we didn't do it alone and I believe there are a couple of key things. One, you have to have something you can offer people. So for me, I've analyzed twelve thousand deals, kind of just the way I'm wired I can analyze deals thoroughly, this is the way I'm built, and my background, and then I've raised a lot of capital. Those are two really good, kind of skill sets to have. As you see more deals, your net worth gets higher and higher, share more attractive people from signing loans and things like that. So I would tell people that you don't have to be an expert in every area of the syndication. But for me, I was able to add value as I said, the partner I first had wasn't as strong as I am in analyzing deals, and wasn't as strong in raising capital. So that's the value I brought. He had a lot higher net worth than I did at the time for sure. He had the experience with the agencies to Fannie and Freddie and things that help. Yeah, I mean easy to work with. Right. I mean if people want to work with people that they know, like, and trust, and people think that they underestimate the part about liking somebody just because somebody is smart. I've been I.T. for example, at a guy that he was like sixty-ninth employee at a company called S&P, which is a huge company; this was over 20 years ago, and yeah I mean, he knew a ton, but he really was brash, and people didn't necessarily get along with well. So didn't matter how smart he was, you still have to be comfortable with to work. Don't be a pushover and getting deals as brokers learn that you're for say a man or a woman of your word, and you're going to do what you say you're going to do, and do not change things up just for the sake of changing things. You get a reputation where you're closer, and you get more and more deals, and that's how we get a lot of off-market deal right now. That's nice. So tell me how it feels, to change your life thus drastically even though you were making good money before. If you were employed in I.T., and I know it's a good career but still, I mean forty-three hundred units is a lot, and I could only imagine your life with your family. Everything changed so much in the past few years for you. I want to know how it feels. How does it feel to feel like you made it, look back, and you think like, oh my God I've made it in real estate? I became very successful as an investor. I'm in a position where most people would want to be. Yeah. I mean I think we've done a decent amount. We don't really, both my wife and I aren't very good at celebrating if we want to have victories or anything like; that which we need to do a better job. But for me, it's been life-changing in a lot of respect. So when I had my I.T. company, I slept three hours a night, I wasn't working out, and I would eat maybe twelve to fifteen calories a day. I just sat separately, and you wouldn't know it by looking at me at the time, but that's not healthy. Now there are other aspects of my life that, I work out six days a week, I eat, five meals a day. So my health is a lot better now. I sleep more than three hours a night; I have more freedom, more time to spend with my wife and the kids. And saying, do you ever feel like I made it or not. No, probably not. You're always striving to improve, not necessarily just financial, but to balance your life better in certain aspects. That's the kind of ongoing type of thing where I'd tell you, you probably never balanced your scene. One aspect of your life is going to be probably a bit short somewhere, but you just kind of put systems and processes in place, and a business process in place. You are having people help you where you can and look after your entire life, and get your brain back. We would love to get back to, orphanages, and the sex trafficking industry. So those we've been able to donate to charities way more than we ever had before. We get people to help you get started in orphanages, and that to me is way more important than anything else. Because I never knew how I would react as they did get more income because growing up, we didn't have any real income, and sometimes people the more they get, the greedier they get, and that's a sad state frankly. So I love the fact that we've been able to change from the time we spend with each other from flexibility, I don't travel all the time anymore. I don't have people working, and people working in Australia and this is I.T. Australia, India, Switzerland, all over the world. I don't have to contend with that anymore. So I would say yeah if you look at, and say life is so much better than what it was before, but we're always striving to make it better. Better not just for us but our kids and for people that we coach, and for less fortunate people. That's more my focus now than I get. I like closing deals, but I'd much rather see someone close or first hundred-year deal than the close another hundred unit deal. We're going to talk more about that soon. So yeah I want to say that I could sympathize with what you're saying because I felt the same when I first started making good money in life, then it was, I felt euphoric. It was amazing, it was an amazing feeling, but after a while when you get used to it, there comes the void of feeling like your life is not complete, that there is something that is missing. And I talked to a lot of people; you could only assume I have a podcast. I have investors and a lot of successful people, and sometimes I stay on the line with people after we've done a recording and they all say the same thing. That once they make it, then they figure out there is something more to it than success in a financial way. So people are looking for the impact on other people helping other people, donating to charities, volunteering to do some good things, becoming good people, and there is this stereotype. On this successful real estate investor or developer or whatever the successful person that, all we think about is money, and we're greedy, but it's not true because I see it firsthand. The minute we become successful all human beings, we start thinking about what we can do for others. It's okay that you talk about that. I just had a conversation with my partner, exactly on that, that's why I'm trying to get better. So I find that amazing. So first off I want to ask you regarding that subject. How is it you would like to improve your life on that aspect in the future, and what are your plans for the future as well? As far as the financial way, I think you're getting more people in our group that we can help and set in making sure that we still always have a strong group. People are always able to gain access to the right people to get deals and things like that. I think other aspects that are, as you start a business and you're doing it, you get consumed, and there are a lot of things that you do that is a low value, and activities, that's the way everyone kind of starts out. So I need to get better frankly with my time management. I'm very accessible. I get through everything I need daily, but I haven't done a very good job with time management. We just hired a business coach two weeks ago who is pinning me downright and making me do things that I should be doing, and putting things on paper and just living, going on vacation, a lot of the time we travel, usually for events we attend and that's okay but a little bit more of the travel, that's not just work-related. The more money you make you initially think you do. In fairness for me, it was about the money, and when I first started, I didn't know how he's going to react. But like you mentioned as you start getting better with finances things are like that. Now I look at other ways to be generous frankly there are a lot of things I do right now, and I'm going all the details or people available to help on certain aspects that I didn't know if I was going to be the person that would be generous. And it's nice to be able to feel like hey, and I'm not looking for credit, and we donate a lot of things, and people say, oh we're going to put your name on this. I'm like I don't want my name on it, not because whatever I just put my name on it. I'm doing it because I want to give to the cause. I can do that and be able to change people's lives. Friends of ours live in the Philippines, they just started an orphanage. We were their significant contributors to that last year. They have ten, at least ten kids there now, that they're these kids' lives are going to change forever because we're playing a small part of that. So the more things I can find like that to help in orphanages in like I said sex trafficking industry, the two in general, that we gravitate too. And then just giving back to the kids more. I have a big desire, and we haven't done anything with it. Keep talking about it. We need to do something about trying to help educate kids about entrepreneurship and doesn't have to be real estate but trying to allow them to know there are other avenues. You don't have to follow the typical path. Now with that said, you shouldn't be lazy either like a lot of the people here right now, frankly. Right, you still need to work but you can work in different ways and smarter, and I underestimated the whole thing around networking, and that's so critical. So I think for me it's more giving back. When people do their deal in the first deal or second deal or it might be a big deal, in helping them change your life and then spend more time with family, whether it's a vacation or different aspects like that. So I have a hard time shutting things off sometimes, or I'm always kind of on or thinking about work, and that's something I just need to work on. So are you when you're saying you're trying to help people to make their first deal? Are you mentoring? Do you have any mentorship program? We do, we have a coaching program. We started eighteen months ago. Never would've thought we'd even be doing education. We kind of fell into some circumstances, and both my wife and I fell in love with it. We did twenty deals in our first year, which was like one hundred and eighty million dollars. It was a good first year and this year is going well too. And we have a big desire to help people and some people have different mixed messages about coaches and mentors and things like that, and that's fine. I understand that, but the reality is we've had a lot of successes, and whether you need a coach or not, you need a partner probably if you're going to be in the business. If you're starting, you need a partner that has been there, done it. It doesn't have to be a coach but you need somebody to help you get through it and people that think they can listen to a podcast, read books, which is great. Don't get me wrong that knowledge, you don't have any credibility yet. So find somebody that has credibility, provide some value to them, and that's how it starts so much faster, and you get bigger. Yeah, I agree. So Mark, what best ways to connect with you for anybody that wants to get started or wants to hear more about your coaching program. My email is Mark@thinkmulti-family.com. More than happy to the people who reach out to me and chat and help any way I can. Alright sounds good. So I want to thank you very much for participating in the show today. I know you're a busy man and I thank you. Keep on doing these great things that you're doing, contributing, donating, teaching other people how to be successful. That's very inspirational. So thank you very much. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it and enjoyed it. Of course. Thank you have a great day. You too. Thanks for listening to the real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden. Stay tuned for more episodes, till next time.

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Crucifixion and the Roman Triumph (ക്രൂശീകരണവും റോമന്‍ ജയോല്‍സവവും) - Prof. Jacob Abraham

jesus christ success english sermon kingdom of god prof official triumph sermons crucifixion positive thinking malayalam religion and spirituality mark's gospel so mark personality development jacob abraham

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2019 26:46

Certain mysteries of the Kingdom of God is wrapped in parables so that the chosen people may know it and the outside people may not understand it. Such a mystery is presented by Mark in his narration of the crucifixion of Jesus. So Mark took up the responsibility to explain to them that Jesus was indeed a King and His death on the cross was a victory celebration. To explain his argument, Mark is placing the events of the last hours in the life Jesus side by side to the events in the Roman triumphal celebrations. Malayalam. Official website: naphtalitribe.comWatch the video of this message in English and Malayalam @ naphtalitribetv.com Listen to the audio messages in English and Malayalam @ naphtalitriberadio.com Read study notes in Malayalam @ vathil.in

Crucifixion and the Roman Triumph (English) - Prof. Jacob Abraham

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2019 16:46

Certain mysteries of the Kingdom of God is wrapped in parables so that the chosen people may know it and the outside people may not understand it.Such a mystery is presented by Mark in his narration of the crucifixion of Jesus.So Mark took up the responsibility to explain to them that Jesus was indeed a King and His death on the cross was a victory celebration.To explain his argument, Mark is placing the events of the last hours in the life Jesus side by side to the events in the Roman triumphal celebrations.Official website: naphtalitribe.comWatch the video of this message in English and Malayalam @ naphtalitribetv.comListen to the audio messages in English and Malayalam @ naphtalitriberadio.com Read study notes in Malayalam @ vathil.in

Crucifixion and the Roman Triumph (English) - Prof. Jacob Abraham

jesus christ english prof official triumph crucifixion malayalam so mark jacob abraham

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2019 16:46

Certain mysteries of the Kingdom of God is wrapped in parables so that the chosen people may know it and the outside people may not understand it.Such a mystery is presented by Mark in his narration of the crucifixion of Jesus.So Mark took up the responsibility to explain to them that Jesus was indeed a King and His death on the cross was a victory celebration.To explain his argument, Mark is placing the events of the last hours in the life Jesus side by side to the events in the Roman triumphal celebrations.Official website: naphtalitribe.comWatch the video of this message in English and Malayalam @ naphtalitribetv.comListen to the audio messages in English and Malayalam @ naphtalitriberadio.com Read study notes in Malayalam @ vathil.in

Crucifixion and the Roman Triumph (ക്രൂശീകരണവും റോമന്‍ ജയോല്‍സവവും) - Prof. Jacob Abraham

jesus christ prof official triumph crucifixion malayalam so mark jacob abraham

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2019 26:46

#47. Mark Black on Living Life from the Heart

The Dr. Greg Wells Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 6, 2019 42:48

Hi everyone, welcome back! Today I had the amazing opportunity to talk with Mark Black, a Heart and Double-Lung Transplant recipient, turned four-time marathon runner, author, coach, and speaker. Mark was born with a life-threatening heart defect, and before the age of one underwent two open-heart surgeries. When he was 22, he was told that he needed a heart and double-lung transplant. So Mark moved thousands of kilometres from home and was put on the transplant waiting list, much of that time spent living in the hospital as his condition grew worse. Finally, after almost a year on the list, Mark received a second chance at life: a life-saving Heart and Double-Lung Transplant. Three years later, he became the only man in history to complete a marathon with someone else's heart and lungs. He has since run three more marathons. Since receiving his second chance at life Mark hasn't wasted a moment. Mark has travelled the globe speaking to more than 150,000 people. He delivers practical and life-changing insight on how to flourish in challenging times, break through self-imposed barriers that limit your development and growth, and transform adversity into your competitive advantage. If you want to gain a little bit of inspiration and also learn some very specific insights into how you can overcome obstacles, then this is going to be something that you are going to be absolutely fascinated by. Please enjoy my conversation with Mark Black! --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dr-greg-wells/support

heart living life so mark mark black

Caller of the Night: Mark owns the Friday Free For All

Marcus Lush Nights

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 2, 2019 7:38

When we say any topic is on the table for Fridays, we mean it. So Mark comes on and gets through having two sets of teeth, Chester Le Street cricket ground, a monkey in a uniform... and it gets weirder from there.LISTEN TO THE FULL AUDIO ABOVE.

owns caller friday free so mark

What did they do next? Part 3b – Bill Bruford – Larks’ Tongues in Aspic – 389

YMP Classic Feed – Yes Music Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 12, 2019 57:56

Produced by Jeffrey Crecelius, Wayne Hall, Preston Frazier, Bill Govier and VR Hoisington This week we finally get back to the second part of our look at what Bill Bruford did after leaving Yes. So Mark and I talk individually and then together about King Crimson’s Larks’ Tongues in Aspic. Listen and let us know what you think! What did Bruford take with him from Yes?How is this new rhythm section??Does Larks' Tongues in Aspic still sound good today? If you would like to support the Yes Music Podcast financially and also have access to exclusive activity and opportunities, there is a special page you can use to sign up and 2019 is the time to join us:Become a Patron! Show notes and links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w7GeJCLpJc Mark's Larks' Tongues Photos: YMP Patrons: Producers: Jeffrey Crecelius Preston Frazier VR Hoisington Bill Govier and Wayne Hall Patrons: Aaron SteelmanDave OwenMark James LangPaul TomeiJoost MaglevDavid HeydenMartin KjellbergPaul WilsonBob MartilottaLindMichael O'ConnorPeter HearndenBrian SullivanDavid PannellMiguel FalcãoLobate ScarpChris BandiniDavid WatkinsonNeal KaforeyRachel HadawayCraig EstenesDemPaul HailesMark 'Zarkol' BaggsDoug CurranRobert NasirFergus CubbageScott ColomboFred BarringerScott Smith Geoff BailieSimon Barrow Geoffrey MasonStephen LambeGuy R DeRomeSteve DillHenrik AntonssonSteve PerryHogne Bø PettersenSteve RodeIanNBSteve ScottJamie McQuinnSteven RoehrKen FullerTerence SadlerJeremy NorthTim StannardJimTodd DudleyJohn CowanTony HandleyJohn HoldenJoseph CottrellJohn ParryKeith HoisingtonJohn ThomsonWilliam Hayes Barry GorskyMichael Handerhan Robert and David Please subscribe! If you are still listening to the podcast on the website, please consider subscribing so you don’t risk missing anything: Subscribe with RSSSubscribe on AndroidListen on Stitcher Theme music The music I use is the last movement of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. This has been used as introduction music at many Yes concerts. My theme music is not take from a live concert - I put it together from the following two creative commons sources: thanvannispen and archive.org

tongues king crimson stravinsky next part larks so mark yes how bill bruford aspic bruford wayne hall yes music podcast jeffrey crecelius bill govier

Build It - Out to Lunch - It's Acadiana

It's Acadiana: Out to Lunch

Play Episode Listen Later May 15, 2019 28:17

You probably know the line from the 1989 movie, Field of Dreams, "If you build it they will come." Decades after the movie came out this line continues to resonate with us, because it's about faith. Faith in ourselves. In our own courage to follow our dreams. And faith in our fellow humans - that others will recognize our courage and affirm it by buying into our dream. This is the exact opposite of how we're taught in business school to launch a business. But passion-driven businesses can be just as successful as the more traditional, highly business-planned venture. Aileen's guests on this edition of Out to Lunch are both evidence of this. In 2013 Todd Buteaux wanted to escape the rat race in Los Angeles. He wanted his daughter to grow up knowing her family. And he wanted to spend time with his parents, who weren't getting any younger. So Todd abandoned his dreams of becoming an actor in Hollywood and moved back to Lafayette. Todd's wife, Rina, is Japanese American. Ironically, it has turned out to be Japanese culture that has fueled Todd's dreams since they moved back here. Today, Todd is co-owner and Marketing Manager of the Japanese restaurant Izumi Ramen, in Lafayette. He's also the marketing manager of the Hawaiian inspired restaurant, Poke Geaux in Lafayette. And he's the co-owner of Poke Geaux in Lake Charles. In 2001, Mark Falgout came back home from traveling the world and decided to open the type of guest house in Lafayette that he would like to stay at if he was a traveler here. That's how the Blue Moon Guesthouse was born. Because all travelers here want to hear music, Mark gave them that too, in the form of the Blue Moon Saloon. It turned out that the Blue Moon was a great place for travelers to meet locals, because locals made the Blue Moon one of the most popular places in Lafayette to go to hear music. So Mark gave locals another, bigger, venue - Warehouse 535. And in 2018 Mark came up with another idea. This one does not involve a piece of real estate. It's the SOLO Songwriters Festival. From its early success, it looks like Mark's music-booking skills and the years he spent as a board member of Festival International have paid off. Photos over lunch at Cafe Vermilionville by Lucius Fontenot. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Consulting Call With My Mentor - Part 2 of 2

The Marketing Secrets Show

Play Episode Listen Later May 1, 2019 35:25

On part 2 of this special episode series, Russell continues to give his mentor Mark Joyner some powerful advice. Here are some things that Russell tells Mark, that could be helpful to anyone running a business. Why you have to find a category you can be king of in order to become a billion dollar business. How the Expert Secrets book can help you become a charismatic leader, find a future based cause, and a new opportunity to sell. And how to create a front end funnel to bring people into your software. So listen to Russell offer sound advice to his own mentor, Mark Joyner, about how he can improve his business. ---Transcript--- Hey this is Russell Brunson, welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. I hope you enjoyed the first half of my consultation, or whatever you want to call it, with my original mentor Mark Joyner. I had a good time kind of going through some of my quick critiques and feedbacks, as well as telling a story. And now in the second episode I’m going to go deeper into, I believe, 5 or 6 different things I would really be looking at if I was Mark in my business right now. And I wanted to share this with you guys, once again, because there are so many lessons that apply to all of you. In fact, a lot of the stuff I’m talking about with Mark in this interview would be the same things that if you were to hire me or just sit with me at dinner or lunch or something and say, “Critique my business.” The things I’m going to share are pretty much the same things I’d probably share with most of you guys as well. So I hope you take the rest of this podcast just to look back and look at this as if it’s your own personal interview, your own personal consult. And don’t look at it like, “Oh yeah, Mark should do that. Mark should do that.” Look at it as like, “Oh, I should do. I could do that.” And hopefully it gives you a ton of ideas for your business as well. So with that said, I’m going to queue up the theme song, and when we come back we’ll finish up the exciting consultation with Mark Joyner. Now I’ve got basically six things that I want to go deeper into. And this is stuff that’s a lot more than just, you know, tweak the software, make it easier, takeaway upsells, put yourself out there, be more vulnerable. Those are like messages, but this is like, if we were to sit down and build Simpleology from the ground up today, knowing that your goal, if you someone asked you what your goal was and your goal was to build a billion dollar company. So it’s like, okay, you’re going to build a billion dollar company from this, or maybe it’s 100 million, or whatever, it doesn’t really matter, but knowing that’s the goal, it’s going to shift the lifestyle business which I think, I’m assuming it has been up to this point, to I want to build this thing and make it significant, then there’s some core fundamental things that I found on my journey. And as you, I’m sure you watched some of my journey over the last decade and a half. I’ve been scatter brained like crazy. In fact, that was my biggest problem, I was doing this and this, and I was all over the place. But in that journey of trying a billion things, I learned some powerful things that became the foundation for Clickfunnels. Some I did strategically, and some I looked backwards in time and I was like, “Oh my gosh, that’s why that thing worked.” So I’m going to kind of go through some of those things, I hope they help. Alright, number one. For Simpleology, if you really want this to become a billion dollar play, like a big play, it can’t just be another productivity tool. You have to create a new category for this thing if you’re going to be successful. The book I would highly recommend reading, it’s the best on the market about this concept, it’s called Play Bigger. It’s all about how to create your own category. So what’s interesting in the book, it talks about how when a company becomes a category king, they become the best. And the category king will suck up like 90% of the business in the category. And then the last 10% that’s still there is fought over by everybody else. All the other companies fight over the last 10%. And again, it’s almost impossible to dethrone a category king. So think about each company. Who owns music? Who owns, anything? Any category you think about it’s there. There’s Amazon, books. There’s Apple with iPods and music and things like that, and all these different things. But there’s always one category king. So what a lot of people do is they come into an industry and they’re like, “Okay, who’s the players out there? Who am I competing against?” I saw this recently with, we have a mutual acquaintance who just launched a new company and I respect this person a ton, but it’s interesting. All his messaging is like, “We’re like shopify, but we’re better.” And I’m like, ugh, literally by doing that you are the ones fighting, you become one of the people fighting over the last 10%. Because the category king of ecommerce stuff has been claimed, somebody owns that and you can’t get it. It’s almost impossible to dethrone shopify. So it’s like, you have to look at that and side step and design your own category. So that Play Bigger book is all about category design. It’s interesting, again, this is one of those things I didn’t know doing it, but looking back I was like, “oh my gosh, that’s why we were successful.” When we launched Clickfunnels there were a lot of things out there, and what was Clickfunnels at the very beginning? It was a page editor. But the difference is there was a page editor category king. At the time it was Lead Pages. Lead Pages was the thing and if we would have come and said, “Hey, we’re the best landing page software in the world.” We would have been competing against the category king that had millions of dollars in funding and it would have been really, really difficult. But instead we came in and said, “We’re not a landing page, we do, do landing pages, but we’re a funnel builder, and that’s what we are.” And there was nobody else that was a funnel builder at the time. Same thing, Infusionsoft. If I would have come out and said, “We are the best marketing automation platform on planet earth.” I would have been going against Infusionsoft that was the category king. And so for me to go into that market and try to compete, it’s literally almost impossible to dethrone a category king, unless they do a lot of stupid things. But it would have been a hard uphill battle that we probably wouldn’t have ever won. So instead we designed our own category, which was like, we’re going to be the category king of sales funnels. And because there’s no one else in there, we automatically by default, we’re the category king. We have that now. And now we have the strategic advantage over everyone else. It wasn’t us building a better mousetrap, it was us building a different thing. It was becoming our own category. And then we were able to grow like crazy. And what’s cool is the tangential categories will bleed into you. We sucked up all Lead Pages business, we sucked up all Infusionsoft’s businesses, and we now have all those things. And yes, Clickfunnels does do landing pages. Yes, Clickfunnels does do marketing automation. But we don’t sell those things, we sell that we are a funnel builder. That’s what we are. We are the category king of Funnel builders. And since we launched Clickfunnels there’s been dozens and dozens and dozens of people that have come, but right now, they’re all fighting over the last 10%. And I don’t know if you see it, but I see it every single day, because I get notified by every single person like, “The next Clickfunnels killer is coming out.” It’s like, good luck, you can have the scaps. There’s 10% of the people there who are not going to stick with us, but the rest of the market we own. Unless I do something stupid or the software crashes, we’re going, we’ll maintain being the category kings, it will almost be impossible to dethrone us, just because it is. So that’s number one, for you now I’d say, what is Simpleology at its core. I look at it and it’s like project management software? Kind of. Is it personal development? What’s the, what exactly is it? What is it the category king of? And I don’t really know, when I look at it, I’m not really sure. The headline’s “A daily ritual that turns your go switch to on, so you have more time to switch off.” So it’s kind of like project management and getting things done, task management. But I don’t really know what it is. And the problem is there are some really, like project management software, there’s some amazing ones out there, category kings. Some have millions of dollars in funding like Trello. Or there’s people like Base Camp that have made that their thing and they’ve built it so deep and so wide, it’s like, how do you come in and dethrone someone like that? It’s not going to be easy. I mean, near impossible. So if you’re a task management software or project management software, that’s going to be so difficult and so hard. So it’s like, it’s not saying take those things out of the app, it’s saying what’s the unique thing that you have that nobody else has? What’s your funnel building thing that’s an evolution of what any of the other of the things? So that’d be my first thing, really spending time figuring that out. What are you going to become the category king in? Because you can identify that and then you can start designing that category, then it can be yours. Now you can own it, now you can go after it, and you’ll suck people in from all these other tools. Like the side tangential competitors, but that’s just like a nice benefit. But that’s not the goal. The goal is “I’m going to become the category king of this.” And I don’t know what that is exactly. Partially because I know a lot of the features of Simpleology, but I don’t know the core message, the core belief, the core thing that you’re obsessed with. I’ve spent the last decade of my life being obsessed with sales funnels. I’ve literally bought every single person’s product that has ever sold anything on the internet and looked at every funnel. I’m obsessed with it. I can’t click on an ad and not buy everything, just to see what happens on the back side. There’s nobody on planet earth that’s more obsessed with funnels than me, it’s impossible. So for me, that’s why this became, why it was such an easy thing for us. That’s why we drifted there. Because I didn’t care about landing pages, I didn’t care about marketing automation. I care about what happened on page one, what happened on page two, what happened on page three? That’s what I was obsessed with, that’s what we became the category king with. So for you, I know you’ve got the software that does these things, but I think that it’s bigger than that. I know it’s bigger than that because I know you. The book Simpleology goes deeper than that. There’s more cool stuff than that in that alone. I’d have you go back and re-read your own book. I recently did that on my own, which is really weird and awkward, but going back to that, and the roots because you wrote that back in the beginning when you were in the most passionate time. I know you wrote 3 or 4 books around that time, and you told me back after, I can’t remember if it was after the Irresistible Offer, or I’m trying to remember the name of the second one, the second drink of water one. Anyway, I can’t remember which, but I remember you telling me all these books are leading up to this one, which is called Simpleology that you were so excited about. I would go back and read that and be like, “Okay, when I read this book, what am I the category king of? What is the thing?” It’s not just to-do lists, it’s not making things simpler, it’s something bigger than that. But you gotta figure out what that is. What is that thing? So that’s number one, is becoming a category king. And that’s the core strategic shift, that then there’s a million tactics behind that, that will make it easier, but that’s the core thing. Alright, number two. After you read the book, Play Bigger, then you should read my book, Expert Secrets. I’m assuming you haven’t read them, maybe you have, but if you haven’t I’m going to give you a quick gist because there’s, it’s really, really important. I think you would love it because the whole book is based and framed around how do you build a mass movement of people. When we were building Clickfunnels, I remember about that time I went to a network marketing convention for a network marketing company that is a software platform that sends out cards in the mail. I remember going there and there’s like 5000 people and everyone’s going crazy and people onstage crying and I was sitting next to David Frye and Dave leaned over and goes, “Do you see what’s happening here?” and I’m like, “No, I’m so confused.” He’s like, “They’re a software company.” I’m like, “I know, why are people crying about sending out a card? I don’t get this?” He said, “Because they’re not selling software. They’ve created a movement. That’s why people are here.” And there was a light bulb in my head like, “Oh m gosh, if Clickfunnels is software, we’re going to lose this game. Clickfunnels doesn’t have to be big, it has to be more than that. How do we create a movement?” And then I went to this whole 2 year long geek out session of how you create a cult, which was really fun. I know you’ve probably read most of the books I read around that topic. But from that, as I did my geek out session I was like, “oh my gosh, there’s the pattern of what creates a mass movement, what creates a cult.” What creates these things to happen, positive and negative. From the negative side of deep, dark, evil cults, to the positive side of things that I believe like Christianity and things like that. The pattern that creates all those things are the same. So at the opening of Expert Secrets I draw this little triangle and say, there’s three pieces that every mass movement has. So I’m going to kind of go through those three because those three kind of tie back to you. Number one is every one of these mass movements has a charismatic leader. So for Clickfunnels, I deem myself that person. I’m the person who’s obsessed with this. I need to be out there, I gotta be living it every single day. I remember when you were in Boise and I was in Clickfunnels, I was building funnels, I was geeking out, I sensed, and I don’t know if you said it verbally or not, but I sensed that you were surprised that I was in Clickfunnels all day building stuff in Clickfunnels. I was obsessed with it. I didn’t just make the Kool-aide, I’m drinking it too. Same thing’s gotta be true for you, man. You have to live the message, whatever the Simpleology message is, you have to be the greatest student of it. People ask me all the time, “Russell, how come you’re still launching funnels every month?” Because I have to be the funnel guy. I gotta be the one doing this, or else no one else is going to do it. The reason why Lead Pages stopped having success is because Clay Collins stopped building Lead Pages. He stopped building pages and generating leads. That’s it. Why did Clayton Mass stop having success with Infusionsoft? He quit building marketing campaigns. Why am I winning at Clickfunnels? Because every single day we’re launching a new funnel. Every single day I’m in, I’m building it, I’m doing it, I’m showing people. I have videos of me building funnels, talking about the strategy. I’m doing it, I’m living it. I have never once seen you login to Simpleology and do something. So I don’t believe that you actually use it in your life. If I did, then I’d be like, “Oh my gosh, I want what Mark’s got.” And I do, I have so much respect for you. I see you and I’m like, some of the things you, like when you were in Boise and we were doing the ring stuff and you were eating just one salad a day. I literally to this day, since you left I eat one salad a day, almost perfectly, because you did that. And you taught, just like I connect with you, I want to be Mark, other people will do that as well, but you gotta be doing it. Whatever you’re preaching, and teaching, and showing in Simpleology, you have to be doing it. People see me build funnels multiple times a week. That’s why they buy Clickfunnels. So the first part of every mass movement is they have a charismatic leader who is the hyper fan, they’ve drunk the Kool-aid the most. They are the cheerleader, I always tell people I’m the dancing monkey onstage. And every single day I am preaching about the thing that I believe in. And that message doesn’t end. I think the biggest problem I had the first decade and a half of my business was that I was jumping from thing to thing to thing to thing and when I set down my roots and said, “I am the funnel dude and all I’m going to talk about for the next 20 years of my life is building funnels.” That’s when the people came. That’s when the masses came. That’s when it went from just being a one off, another product launch and made a quick million bucks, to this is something that’s important and that matters. So that’s the first thing for your mass movement, the charismatic leader. And again, we could geek out and go so deep on that and how it works, but the biggest thing is that people need to see you drinking the Kool-aid, and then they will follow you. They will plug in and they will start following you. Alright number two, the second tier in my little triangle thing is that people move toward a future based cause. So in Expert Secrets book I show a whole bunch of different political elections and it’s fascinating. Almost with 100% accuracy, whichever political candidate talks about improvement, “We’re going to improve things.” They lose to the person that talks about the future based cause. It’s fascinating. Obama talked about change. And I can’t remember, but in the book I have like so and so running against Obama and he said this, which is like, “We’re going to improve upon this thing.” And Obama’s like, “We’re going to change.” Trump is like, “We’re going to make America great again.” Every person that wins is like, “We’re going to change what’s happening.” People want change, they want to shift, they need to believe that the future of where they’re going is the big thing. That’s the big shift. So for me, it’s like when someone comes in Clickfunnels, yeah, it’s software, but I want them to set down roots here and to be here. I have to give them things to shoot for. So one of the biggest things we did initially was the Two Comma Club award. What’s the ultimate result someone gets from building a funnel? They make a million dollars inside a funnel. So we have to reward that and put it onstage and make a pedestal for people to move towards it. It’s a future based cause, like “This is where we’re going.” The slogan, the motto we have in Clickfunnels is “One funnel away”. I get teased and ridiculed by the big time marketers because of that. They always tease me like, “Hey Russell, you’re one funnel away. Ha ha.” I’m like, “Dude, that mantra, that calling card makes me more money per day than you guys make in any of your product launches.” People need to have that, they need to have this thing. So they’re moving towards one funnel away like, “I can do it. I can do it.” And then the big goal they want is to make a million dollars inside a funnel. So we created an award, as you know, the Two Comma Club Award. And people they aspire to see that. They want to move towards that and they visualize it and they, people, literally we had Dana Derricks took a magic marker and drew a picture of the Two Comma Club on his sheetrock wall so he could see it every day until he actually won the award and then he covered that thing up. People have this future based cause they’re moving towards. And when they have that they start moving toward it. So my question is if someone comes into Simpleology, what’s the result I’m trying to get? Because if I can’t define, if I can’t see it, they’re not going to stick. For me to get more time, that’s good, but what does that mean? To get more things done, that’s good, but what’s the future based cause? It’s got to be something that they’re shifting away from. It can’t be like, “I’m trying to make, I’m going to get this thing better.” I’m going to talk about that more in the next one here, but the future based cause is the key. For me, I’d be like if I was joining Simpleology, the big thing, the big campaign, what’s the….sorry I’m kind of struggling to get this out because I want to make sure I’m saying it right. Like pretend like you as the leader of the Simpleology world, you’re running for president right. And you’re standing onstage saying, “We’re going to make America great again.” That’s what we need, a political slogan. So it’s like, “Hey when you join Simpleology blah.” “When you come to Funnel Hacking Live you’re just one funnel away. We’re going to show you exactly what that funnel is.” It’s me showing them that “this is the future, we’re going to help you get there.” And then we have something, some carrot to get them to that thing. What’s the award, what’s the prize, what’s the thing? People sign up for Insanity, a workout to go kill themselves, and they do it because they want a t-shirt at the end. That’s the goal they’re moving towards. So for me it’s like, when I join Simpleology, what’s the political campaign that you’re giving me? What’s going to happen to my life? How am I shifting? And then what’s the thing that I’m chasing at the end?’ Alright so number one was leader, number two was future based cause, and the third part of this little triangle is you’ve got to create a new opportunity. This really does tie back to the whole category thing in the very first part that I talked about. But it’s interesting, and again, if you read Expert Secrets I go deep into this, but every offer there are one of two things. One is an improvement offer, where you’re helping someone be better, stronger, faster, smarter, or there’s new opportunity. People don’t like to buy improvement. They think they do, but they don’t. Only like 5% of people in the world want improvement. It’s people like me who are geeking out. Who when you speak super high level I’m like, ‘Plug me into that. I need more of that.” But the rest of the masses, the 95% plus of the world, they’re not into improvement. That’s why improvement offers never convert well. What does convert well are new opportunities. So I always look at, what’s the end result that my customer’s trying to get? If they’re coming to Simpleology they’re trying to get some result. So it’s more time, it’s more energy, it’s whatever, again, whatever you define that big thing as that we talked about earlier. Bu then it’s like, what are the other vehicles they’re using to try to get that. So if I was in the weight loss market I’m like, “Okay, they’re using a ketogenic diet to get there.” or “They’re using Atkins.” Or “They’re using paleo” or what’s the carnivore one? The carnivore diet. There are all these different vehicles to try to get that result. So my job when I make a new offer is saying, basically saying, “Look, this is the goal you want. You’ve tried all these things, and I’m not here to tell you I’ll make a better work out plan or faster or whatever..” {inaudible}in the verb it’s an improvement offer. It’s like, “I’m shifting everything. You need this other thing it’s called a funnel. You need this other thing, it’s called blah.” What’s the new opportunity you’re promoting, you’re giving them? It’s all about creating new opportunities. I could go on that, I could do a two day event just on new opportunities, it’s so important. But that’s a big concept. Simpleology needs a new opportunity. What are they currently doing to try to get this result and what’s the new opportunity you’re plugging them into? Because if you have a better task management software, you’re an improvement offer. If you have a better way to get things done, a better way to manage your projects, you’re new opportunity. You’re not a category king. Anyway, so that’s the big thing. How do I transition everything I’m doing from improvement to opportunity? Shifting to opportunity. Alright, so that’s the first four. Number one was becoming category king, number two was the charismatic leader, number three was future based cause, number four is new opportunity. Alright the number five thing we’ll talk about is how to sell. So one thing I’m going to tease you about, hopefully that’s okay, is on your thank you page you said, “Nearly one million users and growing, most all through word of mouth” which means you’re bragging that you’re not spending money on ads, which makes me want to cry because if you want to get to a billion dollars, you’ve gotta start spending a lot of money on ads. So I don’t want to use that as like a war trophy, that it’s all word of mouth marketing. I want to use the trophy of like, we’re spending a million dollars a month in advertising, that’s a better trophy. Because that means you are everywhere and people can’t get away from you, which is where we’re at right now. It’s like, that’s a badge of honor that I want to put on myself because it means I’m everywhere, which is the goal. I want to just infiltrate. If I want to change people’s lives, I want to make sure that anywhere they look, I’m there reminding them consistently that I’m there. So I’m going to walk you through the funnel of how we had success with Clickfunnels. What we did initially was we pushed everyone to a free 14 day trial and a couple of things happened. Number one is we could not buy traffic to Clickfunnels.com, which is I am sure what happened here. You have a 30 day free trial, so you’re spending money the whole 30 days, and it’s hard to get the money back. Then we did an affiliate launch with that, and affiliates wouldn’t promote because they’re like, “Well, so how do I get paid.” I’m like, “You get paid, in 30 days you get your commission.” They’re like, “That’s too long away.” Affiliates attention span is short. And then my ability to spend money on ads and wait that float, it was low. So we kept trying and it didn’t work, didn’t work, didn’t work. So then we shifted to a webinar model where we sold Clickfunnels, we made a thousand dollar version of Clickfunnels, where they got at the time, it was 12 months of Clickfunnels for a thousand bucks, plus a bunch of other cool things in the offer. We launched it that way, what happened is we made a webinar, make a whole bunch of money. But then we were in this launch game where we made 100 grand this week, and then nothing the next week. Then 100 grand the next week, and nothing the next week. I was like, I don’t want Clickfunnels to be launching business either, because I’m going to get tired eventually and I don’t want the money to stop. So we kept trying funnel after funnel after funnel and then this was the secret sauce, this is what made CLickfunnels blow up. All the ads we drove were through a webinar. All the affiliate promo’d through webinar, everything through webinar. The webinar would happen, we’d sell the thousand dollar version, and we’d make a big pop of cash. And that big hunk of cash up front would pay off the ad cost, it’d pay off the affiliate, it was awesome. But then what was interesting, on the thank you page, after they registered for the webinar, I had a little video that said, “Hey thank you so much for registering for the webinar. Before you show up, I’m going to be showing you how to use this new cool tool called Clickfunnels. Go get a free 14 day trial right now, go play with it a little bit, then show up on the webinar and I’m going to show you how to use it.” That was it. And what started happening, is that for every one person that paid for the thousand dollars on the webinar, 3 would sign up and stick in the trial. So what did that mean? That meant that after the first 12 months we had 2500 people that paid the thousand dollars. We made 2.5 million dollars from that, but we had 7500 who had joined the trial and stuck, and then the other 2500 people, so we had 10000 end of year one, who were now paying $97 monthly. Which made, what’s that? A million dollars a month. And that was the big secret, because we were able to get the upfront cash to cover affiliates and cover ads, and then we got the long term cash from all the residual continuity. And that blend is what made Clickfunnels blow up. Because now we can spend more money than anybody else in the world and it was just like, it was, when we figured that out, it was on like donkey kong. I was literally doing three plus live webinars a day, multiple times a week. And we were doing it with affiliates, doing facebook ads, doing google ads, doing Youtube ads, doing more affiliates, doing everything we could to get the momentum. Because you know what it is, when an offer is hot, it’s hot and you want to run with it as fast and as hard as you can. I did that every single day for a year, a live webinar, and then at that point we started automating it more, because I got tired. But to this day I can still tell that webinar word for word. Okay, so that’s kind of the funnel we used. So for you, I’d recommend the same thing. After you really identify what your core message is with Simpleology, what you’re going to be the category king in, really identifying you as the leader, what things you’re going to share. What are the pieces of your personality you want to bring out? Then it’s like, this is the funnel and webinar I would use to sell, to really start blowing it up. One thing I want to step back on, to number two when we talked about the charismatic leader. I know Justin Brooke asked this in one of the follow up comments, it was just kind of something about who, or that was the first comment, who are you now, Mark? Are you a fitness guy, are you this, you this, you this? And you said something that was interesting, that you didn’t want to just pigeon hole it, like, “I do a lot of things.” And what’s interesting, I look when I started this business it was very similar. I was, I had learned all the pieces. I learned copywrite, I learned Facebook ads, Google ads, SEO, PPC, all these different things. And so I would pride myself on, “Everyone else has a thing, and I’m able to do all things, and I can do all things better than them.” And it’s funny because I would go to events and people were like, “What do you do?” I’m like, ‘Oh, I do this and this…” and they’re like, “Okay, okay. That’s Jeff Walker, he does product launches.” Boom, they’d go to him, give him money. “Oh, there’s whoever, he does SEO.” They’d go give that person money. Then me, I’m like, “But I do all, I do all that plus this, plus…” And nobody wants to hire a generalist though, a generalist. They all want a specialist. So it’s like, what do you specialize in. And literally for me, going from doing well to exploding was when I said, “I’m the dude who does funnels. That’s my thing, that’s my magic.” And then it was amazing because Clickfunnels blew up. And then my mastermind groups blew up. And then everyone on planet earth wants me to speak to be the funnel guy. And it’s funny because it’s like, I still teach everything. I still teach how to, but I tag the word funnel to everything. So it’s like, “Here’s your funnel. I’m going to show you how to fill your funnel. So now you can go do traffic stuff. I’m going to show you how we do our follow up funnels. I’ll show you my email and communication.” I can start, I pick the thing that’s my thing that I can teach everything else around it. I think for you it’s the same thing, you gotta figure out, this is the thing that I do. But then you can do all, you can still teach everything and be everything you want around it, it’s just figuring that thing out. Anthony Diclementi, when I first came to him, before he launched Biohacker’s Guide to Health and Energy, he was biohacking everything. So I was like, “What do you mean by hacking everything.” “You name it, I can do it all.” I’m like, “Well, what about this?” “Yes.” “What about this?” “Yes.” And he would literally do everything. Smartest dude I’ve ever met. And then I’m like, “Okay, that’s cool. But who are we going to sell?” He’s like, “Everybody, I could sell anything. Any person you bring me I could fix them.” I’m like, “Let’s pick a focus. What are the two things that people want the most?” And he’s like, “For me, it’s focus and energy.” I’m like, “Boom, write a book just on biohacking for energy and focus. Because we can sell that entrepreneurs, we can sell it to whatever.” And then he wrote this book and it ended up being like 8000 pages just on energy and focus. And it blew up, and now he gets clients coming in for energy and focus, but he’s able to work on all the stuff around that, but what’s he’s doing is like, “If you need energy or focus, this is the dude. He’ll biohack you to get your energy back, get your focus back.” And that was the core message most people wanted, but it brings him every client and case you can dream up. So for you it’s kind of the same thing. Sorry, I digressed, I should have shared in the leader part, I just got excited. Alright number five is how to sell. And then number six. So I’ll go through what we got. Number one, becoming category king. Number two, charismatic leader. Number three, future based cause. Number four, new opportunity. Number five, the funnel structure, how to sell software. And then number six is front end funnels. So as you probably know, if you look deep into what we do, Clickfunnels is a software platform, we sell Clickfunnels all day long and it’s awesome. But most of the money we spend nowadays, is either for the webinar we talked about earlier, or to different front ends. So my Expert Secrets book, my Dotcom Secrets book, my 30 Days book, my One Funnel Away Challenge, most of the money we spend is on front end funnels. Because front end funnels are easier to make your money back quick. I want less upsells inside of Clickfunnels, I want more upsells in front end funnels. So it’s the book funnels, things like that. And I started thinking, you have so many assets, in fact I logged into Simpleology and I bought everything from day one. So inside my member’s area, let’s see if I can find my login real quick again. You have the whole section with all of, let me pull it up, with all the old stuff I bought. And I still remember, of everything you’ve ever sold, Legacy course, there it is, my favorite thing still is Simpleology 101. I love that program. The law of straight lines, the law of clear vision, the law of focus and attention, that right there is an amazing front end you could sell for, it doesn’t even matter. It’s not about money, you can sell it $7, for $37, for $47, that training is already done, you did it like 10 years ago, it’s amazing. It’s in Adobe Flash, you’re going to have to update it because no one’s got flash anymore, but there’s people you can pay like $50 and they’ll turn it from flash into an actual video. But Simpleology 101 is a front end funnel. Your Simpleology book, oh my gosh, that book is amazing by the way. Everyone should go and read it. And then you should go back and make a free plus shipping on Simpleology book and bring people through the upsell/downsell process. But those front end funnels are what bring in customers for free, and then they get indoctrinated to you, to the attractive character, the future based cause, the new opportunity. And then from there, then they sign up in droves into your software. Right now today, we get on average between 1500 and 1800 people a day that sign up for Clickfunnels. That means the go to CLickfunnels and they create step one of their account. From that we get between 800-1000 who fill in their credit card. So we get 800-1000 people a day that sign up for Clickfunnels, that aren’t tracked back to an ad. These are people who bought one of my front end funnels. The front end funnel does all stuff I talked about earlier. It defines myself as a category king, it connects them to me as a charismatic leader, it shows them the future based cause so they have a vision of where they’re going, and it offers them a new opportunity, and funnels is the answer for me for all of my front ends. So every front end I have brings them back into Clickfunnels, brings them back. So we spend insane amounts of money selling people these front ends, and then people come in droves to the software because of that. And my books aren’t like, we have friends that have written books that are just long form sales letters for whatever they sell, my book’s not that way. It’s a book. I barely, I thinkt he last page I’m like, “Oh by the way, if you want to use Clickfunnels it’s awesome. Click here.” But my book is not a sales, it’s just a book that indoctrinates them in what they need to believe, and then the answer is they have to have funnels. That’s just how it works. They come that direction. I think you’ve got so many amazing front ends that are already done, that are sitting here, all these elective courses that you have that are amazing. The core course is the books, you’ve written some amazing books. The Irresistible Offer is still one of my favorite books. Simpleology is amazing. Mind Control Marketing, there’s so many. You got so much cool stuff that you can go through and start creating as front ends. In fact, my biggest problem right now is I have so many Russell Brunson front ends out there that the marketplace is so saturated, here’s 800 Russell ads every single day. It’s like, right now we’re going and doing partnerships with other authors that have written books that I can tie back into Clickfunnels. They’re building out their whole free plus shipping funnels, just for the goal of getting a customer for free and then introducing them into Clickfunnels. So number six is just taking all this amazing stuff you created over the past, and creating front end funnels with a goal of acquiring customers and then pushing them into the software. So Mark, we’re almost an hour long. I hope there was some value here. I hope you got some ideas, I know there’s a lot. I’m going to kind of recap it really quick. So my initial quick comments were going back to Simpleology and try to make it simple and have people opt into the complexity of the software. With upsells, taking out the upsells when people log in, stripping out almost all, maybe one upsell when somebody creates their account, but using the upsells later on in the front end funnels. And then really becoming more vulnerable, like let the significance drop, let the vulnerability open up and let people be connected to you, because Mark, you are one of the most fascinating and amazing people I’ve ever met. And when you feel comfortable becoming vulnerable and opening that up to people, you’re going to get all the significance you’ve ever craved or dreamed for. So I hope that, yeah, that’s what I’ve been most nervous about sharing. But I hope, I think it’s the most important. Then after that, the big core shifts. Number one is really focusing on what do you want to become the category king of, and this is not just the software. It’s the software, it’s the content, it’s all the stuff in this business of Simpleology. If you want to become a billion dollar brand I believe you have to be your own category. So I would read the book Play Bigger, which is all about category design, it’s amazing. Number two, three and four, you should read the book Expert Secrets, it goes into detail, but it’s really about identifying yourself as a charismatic leader, finding your voice, figuring out exactly where in the market you’re going to be, where you’re going to become the person. Number two is figuring out your future based cause. Number three is how do you structure what you’re doing as a new opportunity. All those things you’ll get in the Expert Secrets book. Then number five here is structuring how you sell and how you create an actual webinar, which by the way, the Expert Secrets book also teaches you how to structure the whole webinar. Go slide by slide through the whole webinar process. So that would be the next piece. Here’s how we structure the webinar to sell this amazing new opportunity you’ve created for people. And then number six is after you’ve got the webinar up and running and sales are coming in and it’s coming back to these amazing assets you’ve already created in the past and turning them into awesome front ends. The Great Formula, that was the other one I couldn’t remember the name of. There you go. Anyway, so I hope that helps. If l was to start a business from scratch today, those six things are the first things I’d be mapping out. What are we the category king of, what’s the attractive character, how do we identify that? What are their beliefs? What are we focusing on? Who are we the thing of? What’s the future based cause? What’s the new opportunity? How are we going to sell this thing? And what front ends could we also build to bring more blood and more traffic into our world? I hope that helps man, I appreciate you. I’m grateful for you. So grateful that 15 years ago you were willing to be a marketer and to sell, and to sell aggressively and to convince me to part with money I didn’t have, because you gave me hope of a future that I didn’t even know was possible, that now is here and I’m so grateful for it. I’m grateful for you for making those sacrifices back before we had a million ebooks and training courses and things, back before we had Facebook ads, and the simplicity of driving traffic before Instagram, before all these amazing tools, you went out there and you were a pioneer. And you busted your butt and you cut your teeth and figured out stuff before any of us could. And I’m always grateful for the pioneers that went before us, but I’m super grateful for you especially because you’re the one who had the impact on me and got me the shifts I needed to do in order to be successful in this business. I hope that in some way this gives back to you because you’ve given so much to me in my life. So I appreciate you man. Hopefully everyone who’s been listening in on this podcast gained from it. And that you guys will have a chance to now, if you haven’t heard of Mark before, get connected with him, go follow him on Facebook, he’s an amazing human. Like I said, the original, the OG internet marketer back figuring this stuff out before any of us knew it existed. So anyway, I hope you enjoy this episode. If so, please take a screenshot of it on your phone, post it on Instagram, and tag me and use #marketingsecrets and I don’t know if Mark’s even on Instagram. Let’s get him on Instagram as well. If he’s on Instagram tag him there too, if not go tag him on Facebook and tell him you appreciate him for the legacy he left and for all of us to kind of follow. Thanks everybody, appreciate you all and we’ll talk to again on the next episode.

A Consulting Call With My Mentor - Part 1 of 2

The Marketing Secrets Show

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 29, 2019 24:30

I had a really rare opportunity to give some feedback to my initial mentor who got me started on this crazy journey. Listen in for thoughts and insights that should help you as well. On this special 2 episode series Russell talks about a recent social media post by Mark Joyner, and then he goes on to give him some awesome advice. Here are some things that Russell tells Mark Joyner, that could be helpful to anyone running a business. Why having too many upsells/downsells will make your customers turn on you. How removing complexity from software will make customers enjoy it more. And why the more significance you seek, the less you will actually get. So listen to Russell offer sound advice to his own mentor, Mark Joyner, about how he can improve his business. ---Transcript--- Alright everyone, so let me give you some context. When I first got in this game almost 15 years ago, when I jumped in it was kind of the wild, wild west. There was a whole bunch of stuff happening with no one really, it was just kind of crazy out there. It was Google was kind of there. There was a bunch of other search engines though, no one knew who was going to win you know before then. Before there was Myspace, there was a social network coming out called Friendster, some of you guys may remember that. There was a couple of people talking about marketing and stuff, but there wasn’t a lot out there. And when I got on it was kind of like the wild, wild west and I was looking for stuff and I found a couple of people talking about things. But there wasn’t a lot that I could really find. Today I feel like so much of what we do online has been very defined and there’s clear lines of this is what we do and how we do it. A lot of the foundational frameworks and things have been figured out and mastered over the last 15 years. And a lot of you guys who are jumping in the game now, it’s lucky you can just jump in and here’s the framework of what to do. But before that, even before I got on, there were people out there trying to figure this stuff out and one of the early, early, early pioneers was a guy named Mark Joyner. And Mark is, I mean, he’s got a military background, he’s written a bunch of books, he’s just an amazing person for so many reasons. And I remember as I was starting my search online and trying to figure things out, I kept hearing his name pop up. And I didn’t know who was who, I didn’t understand the whole, any of the landscape of who was important and not. But I remember I heard his name a couple of times and all the sudden Is aw this campaign come out and it seemed like everybody’s emails who I had joined at that point, were all sending emails out saying “Mark Joyner, the godfather of internet marketing is retiring and he’s leaving behind everything. And he wants to shift what he’s doing in life and he’s selling off all the source code to all his sites and projects.” And I remember it’s probably one of the best hooks I’ve ever heard. I was like, “What?” I remember going to the sales page and reading this thing called the Mark Joyner Farewell Package. I remember reading the sales page and I was like, “I have to have this. If I had this my life would change. I have to have it, I have to have it.” And I was going crazy because I wanted, I needed to buy it. But the problem was it was a thousand bucks. I had just married my beautiful wife, we were more than broke. I was a wrestler who was making zero dollars an hour. She was a secretary making 9.50 an hour. And we had a little house we were, I had just read Rich Dad Poor Dad so we bought this duplex and I was renting out half of it. I mean, it was as poor as you could get. But at the same time, my wife and I talk about this, the best time of our life. It was just so much fun. Sometimes we miss that part of it. But I still remember I’m in this house and I’m reading the farewell package and I want to buy it but I can’t afford it and I don’t know what to do. I don’t have a credit card at the time. My wife had one but she had, you know, before we got married she had a credit card. So we had someone help us pay it off, and we were paying that person back. So we were trying not to get into debt and all sorts of stuff. I remember reading the sales pitch and then all these people promoting it. And this guy named Mike Chen kept promoting it like crazy and I remember I listened to this interview with Mike Chen and Mark Joyner talking about how to have success in business and basically they’re like, “You need $2000 at least to get started. And part of that’s going to go to buying the farewell package for a thousand bucks, but you need some startup capital to actually be able to do something.” And I listened to this thing all night in my bed, over and over and over again. And Finally I was like, “I have to invest in this thing.” And it’s funny now, looking back at how scared I was, but how grateful I am that Mark was willing to be a marketer and to sell a product that he believed in, that he had created, and that he had given me urgency and scarcity and desires for this thing. Because that next morning I woke up and I told Collette, “I think this is the thing.” And she’s like, “You’ve tried a ton of stuff. You really think this is it?” and I’m like, “I feel like this is the thing I need.” And she said, “Okay, I trust you.” So we called the bank, we upped the credit card limit a little bit and I went and bought the farewell package. And I remember a week or two later it showed up, right when my wife and I were leaving, it was our one year anniversary and my parents were flying to Hawaii and they were taking us with them. So I had my little So I had my little CD walkman player and on the flight I’m listening to the CD’s in the air from this farewell package and it’s Mark telling the war stories. How they built his companies back then. Again, pre-everything, he was building search engines and getting them indexed and building huge email lists with that. He was doing…I would love to actually go back, maybe I’ll do that. I should go back and re-listen to that whole course because he had so many of these brilliant ideas. Like when you can’t run FAcebook ads, how do you build a list? When there are no pay-per-click search engines besides the one you built, by the way. He was one of the first pay-per-click search engines. You’re like, how do you do it? So he ahd to be super creative and he had all these amazing ideas and ways and he had some websites that blew up to be in the top 30 or 40 websites in the world, highest traffic websites, just all these amazing things that he developed. So I remember listening to these CDs and just getting so many ideas about what to do and how to do it. It was really foundational from me. And I think of all the lessons I learned from Mark, and I learned a ton of them, but the one that was the most impactful was the focus point of building an email list. You have to build a list, you have to build a list. And that season of the internet marketing game is when adsense sites became this thing and everyone is cranking out these ads and sites and making insane amounts of money and I kept wanting to shift my focus to that. I just kept hearing his voice in my head. I didn’t know him yet personally but from listening to his course so many times, “Focus on building a list, focus on building a list. That’s what you gotta do.” So I went back to those fundamentals and I was annoyed as everyone else was making millions of dollars around me doing nothing, building garbage sites. And then when that dried up and disappeared overnight I was so grateful for him as a mentor who stuck me to the fundamentals. And you know, after Mark did his farewell package, he sold off all his source code stuff, he disappeared for like a year, I have no idea where he went, and then a year later he came back and was just kind of helping some people. And I jumped in and was like, “Dude, you have no idea how much you’ve helped me.” And we had a chance to connect a little bit there and talk a few times and I had a chance to interview him. And it was such a cool, it was cool of him to do that. It meant the world to someone like me, who he was everything to me. And it was so cool he was willing to come back and to share. And then about a year later or so he launched a new company and it was in more of the personal development space, it was called Simplology. And I remember when he came back there was all the, you know, all the naysayers have to come in like, “Oh, I thought you were retiring from the internet, Mark.” And he’s like, “I was retiring from teaching internet marketing, I wasn’t retiring from using the internet. I’m not an idiot. I’ve heard this internet thing is probably going to last a little while.” And he created this site called Simplology and he launched it, it grew really big really fast, and then you know, honestly I don’t know what happened. I have my assumptions, I think he had had so much success in earlier things, then when this started happening, I don’t know. Maybe it was a relationship thing, maybe it was family things, I don’t know. But I don’t feel like he was really engaged in the game for a long time. I think that Simpleology was working, he made a bunch of money, built a big list, but he didn’t really tend after if for, who knows, a decade or so. It’s there, it’s been doing it’s thing it just hasn’t you know, I don’t know. It hasn’t had his attention, his focus. And you know, I was lucky enough 2 or 3 years ago he came out and we spent a day or two together and I helped him build a funnel, which was really fun and just super cool to go back and do that with my original mentor. In fact, we launched that funnel, and it’s funny, we filmed the whole Funnel Hacker TV episode, but we haven’t got that live yet. I’m going to have to go back and yell at Brandon on my team to see if we can get that thing live, because it was really cool that whole thing. I had so much fun having him hear in Boise. In fact, one of the things I remember, one of his original books was called Mind Control Marketing, which was the book we actually did the funnel for. And I remember he opened it up and he signed his name in it and I looked at it that night, and it said something like, “To my number one student.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh, that is so cool.” Anyway, so there’s enough of me fanboying. So let me talk about what the point of this podcast is. So it’s been interesting, I feel like when Mark came out to Boise and we spent the day or two together, I feel like we you know, kind of caught him on fire, got him re-excited about stuff. I think he saw how much excitement we were having with Clickfunnels and like the team and everything. And I think he was kind of getting excited to get back into it. And I’ve seen him do more and more stuff over the last year or two since he came out here. And I can feel like, I don’t know, it’s like the Phoenix rising from the ashes, this rebirth of excitement from him. And I feel like right now he’s in this momentum where he’s like, “Okay, I want to do this thing.” So the other night, he posted something on Facebook. It was, what was that about? Almost a month ago right now. So he posted this thing and I’m going to read you what he posted. He posted: “Marketing guru’s, this is your chance to humiliate me. Number one, I’ve been stepping up my game lately. Number two, this is just the beginning. Number three, I want your advice on how to step it up even more. Better PR, better offers, better social, broader reach, better copywriting, better public speaking, better whatever the ‘eff’. Number four, be brutally honest. Skin is thick AF, ego in check, mind wide open, and then just be a….just don’t be a jerk about it. Bonus, I think this post will get some wide attention, see this as a free advertising opportunity for yourself and also as a deposit into Mark Joyner Favor Bank. I’m not a lannister, but I always pay my debts.” So that’s kind of what he posted. I remember reading that and I was like, “Oh man.” It’s so interesting. And then I kind of sat back and I watched and I saw as comments started flooding in. And as of today there’s 167 comments and tons of people gave him good advice, tons of people gave him some bad advice. But of all the advice that was in there, there was one from actually my first, one of the first people I mentored. It was Justin Brooke, and I think his was the closest to what I would say, in short form, and then if I had more time with Mark, I would sit back and have a long form of bigger strategy things that I would talk about with him. So what I want to do, I’m actually going to read Justin’s, I’m going to share a couple of quick thoughts I had, based on that. And then I want to sit, I basically want to record this as if I was sitting down with Mark. I told him ahead of time that I was going to record this. I said, “Look, I would love to do some more long form, where I act like this is a consultation. I’m going to go through 6 or 7 things I would really look at if I was you, and I would love if I could record this and I’ll send you the audio, and then you can basically have it. But I want to publish it as a podcast too, because I think this is going to help so many people who are kind of in a similar situation.” And he said, “Yes.” And then he came back and said, “What if we do that, and then I go and implement a bunch of stuff you said, then we do an update podcast later, kind of showing the results.” And I was like, “Dude, that’d be awesome.” So I’m totally into that. So this is the first podcast of a two part series probably, which would be cool. Alright, so let me read you what Justin Brooke said, Justin said: “Said with the utmost respect and love, I am your raving fan, but I do see some things that could be improved. Number one, you seem to be falling into the trap for all great marketers of doing too much high level advance stuff, and not enough of the basics. Maybe your goals are different, maybe you don’t want the attention, but your profiles, sales pages, even the UI of simpleology is very dated. It’s not keeping up with what’s currently popular or best practices. Number two, it’s confusing who you are today. Are you in the fitness niche? Are you marketing? Are you personal development? I know you as the godfather of internet marketing, what happened to that messaging? Where’s that story on your profile pictures, bio, cover photo, website, youtube channel? If it’s not that anymore, then what? How do you want me to brag about you to my friends? (which is a cool line). And then number three, Simpleology is the great productivity software on the market, but it looks like the oldest productivity software on the market. It should be an app on my phone, it should look like Trello, it should be easy and intuitive like workflow, and it should have comparison pages to Asana to To-do list, Trello, workflow. I love you dude. You can do no wrong in my mind, but since you asked.” So three really, really good things. Number one is he launched into what Mark does, and Mark is brilliant, which is the curse of most geniuses. He speaks at a very high level, and for people who are seeking improvement, we love that. We plug into it. The problem is that most people don’t seek for improvement, people are looking for new opportunities, as I’m going to talk about here in a minute, and the new opportunists need things at a more basic level. Number two, I think there’s confusion of where he fits in the market. And number three is that Simpleology, like he said, it looks very outdated. So it’s come to those three things. Now, a couple of things. I had some fast things that I wanted to just throw out there. Like if I was to write a post to follow up Justin’s, I’d have like a quick thing, before I’d dive into the longer, more fun, detailed geeking out on strategy and principle stuff. So I’m going to go through some of the core things really, really quickly. To Justin’s three, the things I would probably add, the first one I’m going to go with Simpleology, kind of what he talked about with the, he said, “Simpleology is the great productivity software on the market, but it looks like the oldest productivity software on the market.” And I would say something similar. Mark, after you came out, (I’m going to speak to Mark, just directly for the rest of this probably. I hope that’s okay.) So Mark, when you came to Boise and we were geeking out showing you all the Clickfunnels stuff, and you kind of did the same thing with Simpleology, you logged us in and created accounts for me and my team and we were all excited to kind of use it because we started doing it. And the word, the root word is simple, Simpleology, and it by default isn’t very simple. It was by far one of the most complex project management, task management things that I had used. And because of that, we didn’t get traction. Me and Stephen Larsen, as you know, we were geeking out like, “We’re going to do this.” And we tried it for a week, two weeks, I was going through all the black belt, white belt, all the training stuff. And by the time, 2 or 3 weeks in, literally the phrase we said was, “This is not simple at all, this is very complex. We’re going to go back to Trello because it’s simple.” So that’s what we did, we shifted back to the system that was actually very simple. So that was one big piece of feedback, why we didn’t get traction, why we didn’t stick, is because the simplicity wasn’t actually there. Especially for a product that has simplicity, the word simple in the name. It’s like, we had to make it more simple. And you know, I say that looking at Clickfunnels, which once again, is very similar. It’s like the most complex software on the planet. And my biggest hurdle that I have in Clickfunnels is getting people to consume the software to the point where they can actually use it. So I totally understand that. And it’s funny, we’re trying to do more of this now, but it’s hard this deep in the game for us, is instead of giving people all the complexity, if I could build Clickfunnels from the ground up again…Like let’s say I sold it for a billion dollars, I had a 5 year non-compete or whatever, I was starting over in 5 years from now. I would make Clickfunnels so simple and I would force people to opt into complexity. So I would basically make Clickfunnels look like LeadPages, where it’s like, you can create a page and that’s it. And they would go int here and drag and drop and move things around, like, “Oh this is easy.” And I’m like, “Oh, you have a page, would you like to do a funnel?” And they’re like, “yeah, that’d be awesome.” And they’d click a button and then it’s like, “Okay, let me coach you on what a funnel is first.” So we explain the concept behind it, and then they click a button to unlock that complexity, to add it to it. So that way we have a basic software, that way all we have to do for my onboarding, to get people to stick with the software is get them to come into the very simplest, easiest thing, just convince them of that. And they use that and get a quick way and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, that’s easy.” And then for them to add the next thing, it’s not just like, click the button and go into it. They have to watch a video and get trained on it. And then when they opt into that complexity, it’s not complex because they just went through a training cycle to understand that. And I’d totally, again if I was to do Clickfunnels from scratch today, that’s what I would do, I would make it simple. And then every time they want to add complexity, they have to opt into it, they watch the training and then it unlocks. And I wouldn’t sell them for each upsell, I would just opt them in at complexity. And they keep getting those things as they do it. So for you, I know you said you have a new version coming out. So I would just look at that. Right now it’s just super complex for something that’s called simple. And I would at that and be like, “Let’s actually make it simple.” And then unlock the complexity as they go deeper. That’s number one. Number two, I logged in tonight to Simpleology because I haven’t used it for a while. So I logged in and it put me immediately into an upsell flow, which as I respect as a marketer, but as a consumer it drove me crazy. It went to three upsells and with the third upsell was a sales video with comments down below and I couldn’t even get into the software. So then I logged out, and I re-logged in and then it took me to the software. I’m like, I can’t even log into the software because it’s putting me through upsells. And as someone who loves upsells and downsells more than anyone on human earth, on planet earth, I also know that my lifetime value of my customers, if I’m not careful, upsells and downsells will destroy the lifetime value. Back in a pre-clickfunnels life, when we were, before I really understood….in fact, I can tell you the story behind this. Every one of my funnels back in the day would always havce 3 upsells and 3 downsells. So if you said no to everything you went through 6 things every single time. And we were pulling out tons of money, so I thought it was right. And what’s interesting, one of my friends came out with this new software, it was Garrett Peirson and Scott Brandley, they came out with this new software called Shopware Proved, and they were like, “Hey, put this on your thank you page. This is when people are most happy. They just bought something, they’re so excited. And then they review you and you get really good reviews.” I was like, “Cool.” So I put this thing on my thank you page for one of our funnels during a launch. And then all the sudden the reviews start coming in and I was like, “This is awesome.” So I let it run for you know, 4 or 5 hours in the middle of the launch, then I logged in to see what my stars looked like. I think my overall rating was like 2 ½ stars. I was like, “What? These are my best buyers, these guys should love me right now.” And I started reading the comments and people were like, “If I see one more upsell I’m going to kill you. I don’t even want your product anymore.” All these things. I was like, “Oh my gosh, my customers hate me.” It’s because we took them through a so complex upsell process. So for me, I always look at, how do I…I want as many upsells as possible without making the person angry. So if you look at like evolution of funnels for me, especially funnels that have upsells and downsells, I’m very, very careful. That’s why we kind of pioneered the whole order form bump thing, because someone would buy a product, you know in the 2 step order form, they’d put in their shipping address and then right before the submit button we’d have an order form bump and we start putting those things in because it would increase our cart value, but people didn’t look at it as an upsell. So it didn’t decrease customer happiness. So we had those bumps that we plugged in there. And then I used to go all the way from having 6 upsell/downsells to the max, I have an internal rule, the most we can have is 2. And if it’s upsell/downsell, that’s it. If it’s an upsell/upsell, that’s it. For me, we never go more than 2. That’s like an internal rule, everyone in my company knows. We do 2 and that’s it. And from that point, our happiness level and our lifetime value of our customers have dramatically gone up because they’re not sick of us by the time it’s over. So that’s kind of a thing to look at. For me to login, I went through three upsells and I then I couldn’t even get to the software. And this is me logging in, I’m sure it’s similar after signing up for the first time. I would just look at when someone’s creating an account on my software, it’s more important for me to get them using the software than for me to make revenue immediately. That’s not always true. In the 6th thing I have here for you, there are frontend funnels with a goal and a focus of upsell/downselling, but then from there I push them into my software. And Clickfunnels is very light on any kind of upselling through the signup process, because I just want them to have a good experience and get them to stick. And then the third thing would say, and again this is my quick feedback, my facebook post that I would have made, is the concept of significance. And I share this, this is one I’ve been kind of nervous to share, but I think it’s really, really important. I don’t want to name names because these podcasts are public and things like that, but it’s been interesting in my journey. I’ve had a lot of chance to work with people who, in fact, the first time I ever heard about this I was in a car ride with Tony Robbins and Tony was talking about doing a partnership with somebody asking my opinions on it. I was like, “I like that person, I think they’re pretty good.” He said, “yeah, the problem is that person is significance driven, therefore I’m not going to do the deal with them.” I was like, “Oh my gosh. Am I significance driven?” and I was freaking out. And I’m having Tony Robbins look at my soul and I’m like, “am I significance driven?” and it made me really, really nervous. And I’ve always been cautious of that since. I don’t want to be significance driven. I want to be driven by other needs, other things. All of us have significance, it’s part of what we do. It’s what drives us, especially entrepreneurs, it’s significance. But what I’ve found is a lot of people, especially from the older time, the foundational time, and these are offline guru’s who I respect and I love, and some of the early online guys, is that they got a lot of significance when they did, and I know that you specifically kind of told me this before when I think I had an event that I wanted you to speak at. And this is before Clickfunnels came out, but you said, “You know, I can only do it if I’m the keynote speaker, because I need to maintain my branding, and my positioning.” And I was like, “I understand that, but the problem is if you’re not careful with that it ruins opportunities.” It’s funny I was talking to Dave Woodward on my team about this, pretty in depth. I said, “It’s interesting how much significance I have right now in my life. More than I could ever even hope for and the less I try to be significant, the more significance I get. The more I push it away the more I get.” And it’s funny because I see a lot of people who hold onto significance, and they want to be significant, feel significant, and because of that, they disappear from the public face. So for me, the biggest thing I would say is, and I feel like you’re doing it now, in fact, this post is a great example of it, is being willing to be vulnerable and coming off of that, breaking posture is what draws people toward you. And in the early days of the internet it was different because it wasn’t social media right, it was ads and it was emails and it was clicks, so it didn’t matter as much. But in today’s world where everything is social, significance actually repels people, it’s like a magnet that pushes people away. Whereas vulnerability is what draws people in. And you can see that from this post right here alone. So for me it’s like, when I talk about my significance and my achievements and my accomplishments, stuff like that, it never draws people towards me. When I talk about my failures, and the things I struggle with, things like that, it draws people towards me. So there’s a point in your stories to have that significance, where it’s like, ‘hey, I did blah, blah, blah.” But if you look at any of my webinars or my stories or my videos, I touch upon significance, I say things so that people know that I’m significant, but I jump off that as fast as I possibly can. Like it may something like, ‘Here’s, I had a chance to build a funnel for Tony Robbins when he launched his new book.” Boom, there’s a huge significance hit, but then I jump back and I’m like, ‘Oh my gosh, it was the most stressful thing in the world so I was scared.” And I go into that and then all the sudden they’re like, “Oh my gosh, he’s human. He was scared just like I would have been scared.” And that’s what draws them in. Me doing something with Tony does not, it gives me the credibility but the significance actually pushes things away. So for you it’s like the more vulnerable you get, the more your audience is going to connect with you and they’re going to build with you, and the more you kind of put significance away. And again, I feel like you’re doing that now anyway, which is awesome. But it’s something that when you were in Boise I wanted to say to you, but I didn’t know how to say it to you. Because I look at you and I’m like, ‘Man, I have so much respect for you. Why do most people in our world not know who Mark Joyner is right now?” it’s because, partially its obviously by design. That wasn’t your goal, that wasn’t your mission at the time. But part of it is you were trying to maintain a certain positioning, which made you lose your positioning. I always tell people now, by trying to be significant, you’ll lose your significance. By giving it away, is when you become significant. It’s kind of a hard thing to explain but I hope that kind of makes sense.

VP Marketing & Alliances at Ridecell, Mark Thomas

Vehicle 2.0 Podcast with Scot Wingo

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 4, 2019 51:26

EP005 - VP Marketing & Alliances at Ridecell, Mark Thomas http://www.vehicle2.getspiffy.com Episode 5 is an interview with VP Marketing & Alliances at Ridecell, Mark Thomas; recorded on March 29th, 2019. Mark and Scot discuss a variety of topics, including: His career path through corporate technology companies to the startup world with Ridecell. Defining the history of Ridecell, their mobility platform, and the companies who use their technology. The evolution of station-based and free-floating ride sharing, specifically with companies like GIG and Zipcar. Shifting from private car ownership to public options and how the impact will be felt across the industry. Realistic use cases for autonomous vehicles, such as ride hailing, fleet rebalancing, or nighttime trucking. The importance of software in vehicles that are becoming increasingly connected. Be sure to follow Mark on LinkedIn! If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review on iTunes! The four pillars of Vehicle 2.0 are electrification, connectivity, autonomy, and changing ownership models. In the Vehicle 2.0 Podcast, we will look at the future of the auto industry through guest expert interviews, deep dives into specific topics, news coverage, and hot takes with instant analysis on what the latest breaking news means for today and in time to come. This episode was produced and sound engineered by Jackson Balling, and hosted by Scot Wingo. Transcript: Scot: [00:51] Welcome to the Vehicle 2.0 Podcast. This is Episode 5 and it's being recorded Friday, March 29th, 2019. About a year ago, someone I knew in the industry was texting me feverishly. He was at the Center for Auto Research trade show in Detroit and he kept saying, “Scot, there's a speaker here and you have got to talk to this guy. He is saying a lot of the same stuff that you are pretty passionate about, and he has great sites.” So here we are, a year later, and I'm really excited to welcome to the show, the VP of Marketing and Alliances at Ridecell, Mark Thomas. Welcome Mark. Mark: [01:28] Thanks Scot. Scot: [01:29] Cool. So Mark, let's start off by going over your career path. How did you end up in the world of mobility? Mark: [01:36] It's a interesting, My career has been pretty much full time in silicon valley and just starting off with the desktop revolution and apple, the Internet revolution with Netscape, and the mobile revolution for many years at Nokia. And my last few years at Nokia I was part of the, the here division, the maps division where automotive was a really big part of it and realized that this is a chance to really connect some of my passions, which are leading edge technology and my love for vehicles. So after some time at Cisco heading up their connected car initiatives within the marketing organization, I joined Ridecell as the head of marketing and alliances. Scot: [02:23] Cool. So you're a hardcore consumer electronics guy. I always like to ask, how many CESs have you gone to? Mark: [02:30] You know, they do tend to blur, but probably over the course of several decades. Scot: [02:35] Cool. Mark: [02:35] I love how CES though has become car electronics show. It's great. It has really out there. Yeah. They're having to move the Detroit auto show, from the week after to sometime in the summer because it was just to becoming too competitive. Scot: [02:52] Yeah, it is funny. So we've had, you know, I don't think 20 years ago we would have guessed that cs is the one show that would survive all the, you know, we used to have the computer shows and then the software shows and we even had internet shows and a CES is been kind of the, the, the survivor of all. That's pretty amazing. Mark: [03:11] Yeah. I've got to say I don't miss COMDEX. Scot: [03:14] Yeah. Yeah. Me either. Standing in lines for like eight hours to see Bill Gates give a 10 minute little thing about some, some new gadget. Mark: [03:23] Hey, I think I was there. Scot: [03:25] Cool. So let's, let's, let's learn more about Ridecell. Obviously it was you saw something really amazing there to come from a lot of these really big brands and do a startup. Tell us a little bit of the history of the company and, and what Ridecell does. Mark: [03:40] We were founded in 2009 in the Atlanta area, a great place to find wonderful tech engineers, great talent. Definitely though there was a shortage of capital out there, when the company was looking to raise some VC money, so they uprooted the founding team and moved out here to San Francisco. About two years later started one of the first ride hailing companies called summon. Right up there in the beginning days with, with Uber and Lyft. I think that the company had about 2,500 drivers, working in the San Francisco Bay area. And you know, as the company was looking at, you know, where this market's going to go and think there's the understanding that this is going to be massive race to raise capital and expands. And rather than being, you know, the third company pushing in, ride hailing, the intent was to become the first company to offer a white labeled end to end platform or other companies that needed to get into the ride hailing or in the future car sharing businesses. Scot: [04:54] So I've made a career of building companies that sell pickaxes and not, not, you know, doing the digging. So, so I think that's a good strategy. So if we flash forward to the day, I kind of think of you guys as mobility in a box. So, obviously if I wanted to start a ride sharing company, I could use your software but, but I think there's a lot more interesting use cases there. Can you share with us some of the ways people are using the platform that, that maybe you didn't think of it originally? Mark: [05:19] Yeah. Let's, let me take the first part of that, which is Ridecell provides. we, we have a full shared mobility cloud. And in the same way that, you know, back in the day since we're reminiscing, people would create their websites by buying sandboxes and getting some rack mount space and screwing them in with load balancers and really have to take control of the entire hosting and domain as a differentiator. Now nobody does that. Everybody just uses AWS or Google cloud or Microsoft Azure. We're the equivalent for that. And the shared mobility space, you know, having the benefit of having been in a pure play software company since 2009, we focused on building a complete share mobility clouds so that if somebody wants to create a ride hailing service or a car sharing service or a dealer based test drive service or you know, a hotel, car rental service, all of those things can be easily started using the Ridecell mobility cloud and then, you know, then the companies can, can focus on building their differentiation on top of what we offer. Mark: [06:44] So it's very much all of the underlying bits and pieces that really allow you to create a service which, you know, it's taken us years of expertise to, to form. We've got about 150 people working on the company and over a hundred of them are engineering and QA teams. So it's it's a bit of an undertaking to really make it easy to use and easy to launch a service. Scot: [07:11] Awesome. Are there any examples you can share of companies and how they've used the cloud? Mark: [07:16] Absolutely. Companies that, that like to work with us are those companies that realize they will need to transform or risk becoming the next Blockbuster Video. And so the, for instance, the Automobile Club. If private vehicle ownership goes away, then do we really need an automobile club? And I think that their view is maybe not. So the AAA of northern California, I came to us and said, look, we'd like to have a product relevant to millennials, people who don't own cars. Mark: [07:56] And so they, within six months they were able to launch a new brand called Gig. Sort of stands for, you know, they marketed as "get in and go." It's a car sharing service and it's the modern kind of car sharing service. I think in North America when we think of car share, we think of Zipcar and the little signs behind it. It says Zipcar lives here and you reserve it ahead of time and you walk down to it and then use it for your errands. But you always have to bring it back to the station and you have to bring it back on time or subject to those potential late fees. The modern style of car sharing is one which is called free floating or some time in people call it one way car sharing so that you can walk to the car, get in it, drive to your destination, park it and park it in a residential zone, parking in a meter. Mark: [08:51] Typically it doesn't matter because these cars generally have all access parking passes for a city. And so with Gig, they have the ability to you know, walk up to a car, unlock it, get in, drive, park it. They can even park it in a metered spot as long as it's not one of those like, you know, 20 minutes green meter zones and then leave the car and the next person that's downtown shopping and see is it pops in it and takes it and drives it. So it's a much more convenient way to use use car sharing. and you know, it's something that's really allowed them to create a product line that, has become very successful. They started with 250 cars, now they're up to 600 cars in the San Francisco Bay area. Then you know, they've gone from two cities, Berkeley and Oakland to five, now they're alive and Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, and then San Francisco as well. The first free floating car sharing company to get a permit for San Francisco. So it's, you know, this is really exciting times is the city governments or figuring out the real value of using car share services. Then of course the next horizon is in creating services that aren't for internal combustion engine cars, but for EVs and it's really the electric vehicle may become the real hero use case for carshare fleets. Scot: [10:21] Very cool. I'm curious. So if you, you're really good at kind of branding some of these things. So, if what Gig has built is a one way car sharing, what do you kind of think of Zipcar? What does that kind of like traditional or old school ridesharing? How are you, how are you thinking about that? Mark: [10:37] So in North America, many of the zip cars are still using a model called station-based car-sharing and that's where it has a station and lives and, and there's definitely some benefits to a station-based. You can reserve a car ahead of time, free floating car sharing where the cars could be anywhere at any time. It's a very hard to reserve a car. Normally it's an on demand. I need a car, find me the nearest one, put a hold on it for up to 30 minutes so I can walk there. The station-based, which we support both station-based and free floating. We believe there's actually, if you have a fleet of vehicles, it's best to have some of each that you know, in apartment buildings where people move in and they see maybe there's eight or 10 cars parked in the garage that permanently or station there. Mark: [11:29] People who live in the buildings are able to, you know, check them out or rent them, or use them for their errands and it's natural for them to come back and park it back in the parking garage. So station-based is a great addition to a free floating car sharing base, which is kind of one of the first insights that I think we have four companies that are doing these shared mobility fleets, which is you need to be able to support multiple different kinds of business models to get the most out of your fleet. And you know, one way at the station-based or both in different business models that can be applied to one fleet of vehicles. Scot: [12:09] Very cool. so I think that's awesome and it gives us a really good idea of, of what you guys are building at Ridecell and definitely want to hit on more. I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg. But here on the podcast we have a framework where, you know, we call it the vehicle 2.0 framework and we talk about connectivity, new ownership models, electrification and autonomous. you're obviously really deep into the ownership world. How do you think, you know, one of the reasons, you know, my friend was texting me a year ago was that you, you have some interesting thoughts around, ownership and how that's going to change. What's your projections for when, you know, we start to feel in the industry, the, this move from the individual owner to kind of more of a fleet kind of ownership model. Mark: [12:56] If I could take this slightly off topic from the question for a minute. Scot: [12:56] Sure. Mark: [13:01] I think it's interesting. So just want to talk about the vehicle 2.0, I mean, the entire intent of your podcast. What's interesting is that this a combination of four things connected, shared, electric and autonomous, is ending up with a whole number of different acronyms. And I think there's, you know, CASE: connected, autonomous, shared, electric is one that's kind of leading the pack, but then you've got another form I think like the folks in Daimler or pushing ACES, which is you know, autonomous, shared, electric, connected. And, and in many ways, when I, when I was giving that speech, last year, traverse city. You know, my commentary on this is that, you know, if we try and label it as an acronym or a name, it almost makes these things, it doesn't do enough justice to what's happening in the industry. Mark: [14:09] And right now these, you know, connected is a foregone conclusion. I almost think that, yeah, vehicle connectivity done, we can check that one off the list. So it really comes down to these three major disruptions, any one of which is incredibly powerful. So it's, to me it's the triple disruption of shared mobility as as a massive way and shared mobility is disrupting, certainly. How people get around in cities, the ability for people to not have to own a car and you know, the downside of taking Uber's and lifts exclusively everywhere is that it's expensive because you're paying for the overhead of the driver. You know, electric is this transformational change in how we build a vehicle that will dramatically disrupt the value chain? these vehicles barely need to be maintained. certainly no, you know, lube jobs that go in here, and there are so much better for the environment yet the, you know, the whole difficulty associated with electric vehicles is that you have to have a charger. Mark: [15:30] You know, we're either where you live or where you work or where you shop. And that's a whole massive, expensive, difficult infrastructure. You know, my friends who live in apartment buildings are like, there's no, I'd love an E-vehicle, but there's just no charges and how am I going to get the building per person to put it in. The pudding shared E-vehicle fleets is really cuts the whole Gordian knot of having to solve, putting infrastructure where people live and own their vehicles. Because these vehicles can now free float around in the city and when their battery levels get low, they can be taken offsite and can be used, can be cleaned and charge. And with the range of you know, the new leaf or the Chevy bolt or the ring, no Zoe vehicles, these, you know, we're in the 200 plus mile range, which means for a typical car sharing customer, they're able to take the cars out of service probably once every three days. Mark: [16:35] I usually in the middle of the night, and you know, bring them to a depot, recharge them and get them back on the streets. And then, you know, when you look at these shared, the fleets having, you know, if to put them to use in ride hailing scenario, it's still means there is a driver in there. And if autonomous without sharing, if we really think about it, it's, you know, primarily a really fancy cruise control for rich people because these cars are going to be very expensive. So the autonomous revolution doesn't actually change many people's lines until the technology becomes adopted and shared, shared mobility. And that's the point at which rather than offering a ride for $2 a mile, when you take the cost of the driver out of the equation, and they're generally about 70% of the total cost of offering a ride, you could get the price per mile down to say 40 cents a mile. Mark: [17:42] And that is the point at which it's considerably cheaper than using your own vehicle. Most statistics are that it's between 65 and 70 cents a mile to drive your own car somewhere. And that includes your licensing, your insurance keeping, you know, obviously the fuel, you know, keeping it clean, parking, huge expenses in urban areas, paying for parking. And so, you know, when it's okay if I'm going to spend 75 cents a mile on my own car or 40 cents a mile on, on a ride and I can do something other than drive on my way there, this is, that's the tipping point. That's the inflection point that we'll have people deciding not to renew their leases will have people in urban centers selling their cars going, I can now depend on this. And it's, it's, it's dramatic how, how much this will not just change our lives, but how transformative this will be to the entire value chain of businesses who depend upon private vehicle ownership as their primary source of value in the world. Scot: [18:53] Let's put some, so I kind of used the metaphor that it's kind of like four waves that, you know, individually, you know, their waves, but you know, like any wave form, they kind of stack on top of each other, right? So we've got connected car feels like, I think we agreed that's, that's coming. It's kind of here today. these new ownership models are kind of another wave that's rising. and then it feels like EV is kind of, you know, we're starting to see like, like Tesla is the top selling car in its category right now in China. You're starting to see EVs outsell a internal combustion vehicles. and then it feels like AV, that's the one that's harder to kind of know when that's coming because we kind of went through a hype cycle and now we're in like that trough of digital disillusionment a little bit at CES this year, there was a lot more very specific use cases versus the generic kind of use cases. What kind of timeframes do you put on these things kind of coming out and really impacting each other? Mark: [19:50] Yeah, great observations. I'm really, the long pole in the tent is is AV. When we, I think when we think about what's necessary in, in an Av, people tend to overstate what required for us to make this transformation. I think level five or the classic the car can do whatever a human driver can do is years and years and years off a level four, which really is within a geo fenced area. You know, some, you know, downtown part of the city. Ah, urban speeds. So the, the, the slower the car drives, the easier it is for the autonomous systems to work within, you know, predefined driving rules. Okay. Don't make any left turns or you're going to go ride all the time to get around that. That can be done and deployed, within probably within four years in cities that have very good clear road markings and, don't have a lot of inclement weather. Mark: [21:05] So we've already seen, you know, it's, it's essentially deployed now if you'll look at a Waymo and what they're doing to roll out their, their service, the Waymo one, but in terms of getting, you know, some other vehicles, crews, we have our own autonomous driving initiative called Aro. You know, at that point, once you get autonomous driving, the long pole in the tent won't be getting vehicles that can safely drive around. It will be getting permits from the cities to operate an autonomous ride hailing service. You saw this with the whole a scooter getting here in San Francisco were, you know, Lime and bird and everybody flooded the city with these scooters and there was chaos and the city, you know, this said, you have a week to take them all off the streets. We're going to have a process by which you're gonna, you're going to bid for one of these licenses. Mark: [22:04] And we're going to pick the winner. And they'd pick two, one of whom was a company which has already been operating and mopeds sharing in San Francisco. The city knew them. They were like, we want to reward you for being a company that collaborates with us. I mean, you know, the history of excellent cooperation and that that's going to pay off. So the are insight to companies that are looking to capitalize and prepare themselves. Four, the autonomous shared mobility revolution is to get into the business now with car sharing, establish the relationships with the cities, so that you are a great company to work with. And when those licenses come out that are going to be available to a limited number of companies to offer autonomous ride hailing, we think those companies are going to be first in line to be issued the permits to switch from, I'm driven to driverless. Scot: [23:04] It's interesting that you're taking kind of a regulatory regulatory approach versus a you can have the best technology, but if you're not going to be permitted, what does it matter? I hadn't thought through that. Mark: [23:14] You know. And the other piece that I think, most people haven't thought about is there are applications or autonomous that don't involve driving people around. And in particular, you know, one of the, one of the big expenses of operating a car sharing fleet. These vehicles, you know, don't have a driver like an Uber or Lyft driver that's responsible for them. And so when they're parked and something, you know, the check engine light comes on, they're low on gas, they need to be recharged. Typically what happens is the company has to send out and pay for a driver to go to the car and move it in. Those con those can cost, you know, 20, $25 for each time the car needs to have somebody get in it and move it around. The, the test driving permits, can probably be used for late night operations where there was no passenger inside the cars, you know, driving itself from two to four in the morning, you know, drives itself out through a supercharger, you know, the car gets wiped out. Mark: [24:26] Yes, recharge and then, you know, move back onto the streets in a place where the customer demand is likely to be highest. We call that fleet rebalancing. When you've got a car that's parked in a and a zone that we think, wow, there's not a lot of demand there. History will show it's going to be cars. Gonna wait there eight hours until somebody needs it. We can move it right by the train station, right by one of the subway stations. And we find that this car is going to pick it up within the next 45 minutes. So being able to automate, you know, fleet rebalancing, cleaning maintenance runs and use the autonomous technology for that purpose, is a great first step into getting experience with autonomous technology for these fleet owners without having to go straight from a fleet of cars that drivers drive to suddenly now you're using them. Live for eponymous ride sharing. Mark: [25:22] We call that autonomous car sharing. And at some point, even if there is no license for autonomous ride hailing, we think that the autonomous technology could be used for per car hailing. You know one of the drawbacks of car sharing is you've got to walk to the car and then when you're done, you've got to find parking. If you were to apply autonomous technology and let the car drive itself to where the customer is, and then that person gets in, gets behind the wheel and drives wherever they're going, then they get out in the car and goes and parks itself or it goes on to the next customer. You're not doing autonomous ride hailing, you're just automating the delivery of the vehicle. So this is a new category of, of service called car hailing. And we think that this is one which is again, probably another interim phase, but you know, life is made by identifying the interim phases and being the, the customer who best adapts to where we are in the cycle. Scot: [26:26] It's like when I go to the grocery store now frequently on instacart, people in there or Postmates people. So I'm envisioning I'm driving around at night and all the cars that are driving around, they don't have drivers. It's going to be going to be a fun and exciting world to live in, in the future. so when do you, so do you have a point of view on when we can get, a lot of people think one of the first phases is going to be trucking, right? So, so AVs doing some of these long haul routes that you really don't need a person, therefore, do you agree that's going to be another one of the first uses of AVs. And you think that's also kind of in that three to four year horizon? Mark: [27:05] I think companies like telecon and others really focused on a very specialized use case. I don't see that is replacing the driver. I see that as being able to offer, more efficient driving because the platooning and the ability to talk in very closely, you know, behind another truck really allows you to draft and save a considerable amount of fuel expenses. You know, those use cases are things that people have been working on for quite some time. The, you know, the, the use of autonomous, almost like a tram where it has its own protected lanes and it, it's an unattended brain if you were driving and stopping for two minutes at everyone. I think those types of shuttles are also some of the near term, use cases that take away the issues of having to deal with, you know, making decisions on how to reroute itself during, you know, traffic jams and how to avoid pedestrians and the like, because it's a much simpler model where it just runs on a track and it goes around in circles. so we think when we, we see, we hear a may mobility and they've got, you know, deployment and Detroit where it goes, you know, six city blocks, around that, around those are also, I think relatively straight forward. compared to the where we think the end goal is, which is having cars be able to drive, not just on a fixed route but point the point. use it for pooling and really replace a human driver. Scot: [28:59] Even kind of more near term. I've seen projections, we saw about 17 million cars a year in the US right now and it's kind of, you know, pretty flat and then a lot of projections are for this year, that we're going to be down for the first time due to some of these changing ownership models is that. Do agree with that or do you think it's going to take the AV innovation to really get to where we see the, the whole thing flip? Mark: [29:25] Well, it really depends upon who's a model that you're referencing there. I've seen it anywhere from being flat to a flight growth to, to the diminishing growth. The thing that nobody reports on is not the total projected vehicle sales year by year for the next 10 years. It's the customer mix of the vehicle sales over the next 10 years. And what, when you really inspect who's going to be buying these cars somewhere between 20, 25 and 20, 30 in north American urban areas, more than half of the cars sold. Well we sold to mobility service providers. That is the transformative change. And you know, 10 years from now, it'll be 80% of those vehicles are going to be sold into mobility service providers, which means that those are the companies that are going to have huge buying power. there'll be the ones that'll be ordering the vehicles bespoke for their, their business purpose and, and the brands will start to become much less relevant to customers. In the same way that when you order an Uber or Lyft, you're identifying as an Uber or a Lyft person, not a Prius passenger because you have no control over what that vehicle is. So the, the relevance of, of car brands diminishes greatly once, like customers choosing which a mobility service to youth as opposed to which vehicle brand to buy. Scot: [31:20] That's interesting. And I'm sure scary for, for the brands up there. And, and, you know, I've been to this ecommerce change and, it, it's been quite disruptive as I'm sure you've seen there with retailers. you know, now the brands are kind of going around retailers. It's sometimes hard to predict how these things will shake out. But, let's, let's say it is 20, 30, and you know, we've got a majority of people in urban areas now not owning a car directly and they're using these different formats. It's, it seems like a lot of people are, obviously kind of trying to win that battle. You've got the rental car companies, they all kind of feel like they're going to have a role in that. And, and you know, their, their argument is they're already kind of doing it now, which is a fair argument. You've got the, the dealer OEMSs, you've got some of these other mobility players like a Cox in a car. you have some of these innovative new models, like obviously Uber, Lyft, but then there's Turo get around and then some of the subscription guys. W where do you think all this kind of shakes out? Like do all these companies survive and they have a role or, or is it, is it kind of a existential crisis time for some of them? Mark: [32:24] I think there is, that is not a mutually exclusive scenario. I think there's roles for companies that proactively work to transform themselves. if you look at like talk thought motive, who, who have a belief that, you know, their primary business is servicing dealers and you know, they, they formed their pivot division, which is now designed to offer services to shared mobility fleet providers and understanding, you know, when companies get into the business, we believe those that have a predisposition to action as opposed to kind of a wait and see approach are those who were going to be getting the most learnings and be able to, to put together the most relevant product. you know, I think that looking at the end state, most of the people I talked to when they think of, of shared mobility and, and these robo taxis kind of feel like, well, okay. Mark: [33:29] And in the future, it's going to be like it is today. There's going to be you know, an Uber, kind of the number one player in terms of market share and metal lift, the up and comer, you know, the Hertz and Avis, essentially offering, you know, undifferentiated experiences, which is what they have today. I mean the cars are driven by people in their private owners and you can't really judge one service of the other by the quality of the car. But in the future, once the autonomous vehicles have really become established and there isn't a need for a safety driver and, and the cabin is, is designed for sharing. I think what we'll see is that people, people will start to choose their, their ride based upon the experience that they look to get out of the time that they're in the vehicle. Mark: [34:28] If you take people that will be commuting in these cars, you'll first off the, you may want to choose WeWork branded car. You want to seek, that's got essentially a soundproof wall between you and the other passengers. A 5G connection with a video camera, a desk, you know, one 10 power if you're in North America, place to plug in. And so you can essentially turn that commute time. when you're, you know, sitting an hour in a car into a time where you can lead a conference call. do you know, do work at the desk. And then, maybe after a long day at work, you want to take the, the Netflix card home and you just jump in it, it's a comfy or see it, a little more relaxed position. You've got surround sound and you know, best of all the big screen that's in front of you turns itself on and, and starts where you left off. Mark: [35:27] When you were watching the Game of Thrones or Ozark, whatever it is you're currently binge watching. And so that, you know, these vehicles, become, a bit more focused on the, the experience that's in the car. I think that people then may choose it based upon a brand that they already know and love. And the idea that it's just the generic brand for getting around, you know, that may end up being the, you know, the people express, you know, the budget airline of, of autonomous travel. And I think, you know, looking at the airline industry is probably not a bad way to go either. There aren't that many airline manufacturers. There's a lot more airline brands and there's, you know, regional airlines and, business airlines have low cost airlines and upscale airlines, entertainment, airlines like virgin. Seeing all of how that's rolled out makes you also understand that the end game here is, is, there's not, one brand isn't going to envelop the world, knows that the world's winner, there's going to need to be some collaboration between the brands so that if one of them isn't available in a city that you traveled to, you can still use, use the APP to get a ride in the same way that when I traveled to Berlin, I'm on a United plane to Frankfurt, but then I'm on a Lufthansa plane to, to Berlin and, you know, but I'm still a United customer that whole way through. Scot: [37:05] Yeah. I like to CX view of things as this can be interesting. It reminds me a lot of, you know, so if kind of look at some of the things Amazon's done, they've, they've taken a lot of traditional brands, which the equivalent in this metaphor would be the car brands today. and then they've, they've kind of created a layer between them and the customer, and then they'd commoditize them. That the classic example is batteries. So you get energizer and Duracell, and then Amazon starts, you know, and then now Amazon has Amazon basics, which they went right to China and they make their own batteries. And it's the, now that battery, at least on Amazon, is dramatically outselling Duracell and energizer. So, so if we kind of ticked that metaphor to its conclusion, you could see some of these, these operators manufacturing their own cars because it really doesn't matter. It becomes commodity, right? And it's the interior that matters. So it's seems to all paint a picture that's not great for the current car manufacturers. Is that Kinda where you net out on things? Unless they, you know, and then they also have, they also remind me of the world of retail because they have this innovator's dilemma of this, this network of franchise dealers that, that really limit their dimensions of movement. what do you think happens to the traditional manufacturer? Mark: [38:26] Let's say I, I, in my career, I spent 10 years at Nokia. You know, I saw what happens when a company that's known the world's best hardware, gets outflanked by companies that are software driven companies. And, the, the, you know, the strength becomes a weakness that the, you know, working at Nokia, I was always asked, as the software guy to provide a precise roadmap of what I was going to be shipping three years from now because that product managers designing his phone for, for something three years from now and the software teams, like, you know, that's nine generations away. I mean, that's not how software is designed. So the, you know, the vehicle manufacturers I think are coming to understand that there their DNA and what makes them great as they a safe vehicle manufacturer isn't necessarily what would make it great consumer services company. So you see BMW and Daimler spinning off there, their drive now reach now moovel and car goat businesses into a single business unit that has the charter to make this right. Scot: [39:46] Yeah. Software software's eating the world and Jason Horowitz has it right. so, you know, Spiffy is the first company I've started, which has its own fleet. We have about a hundred vans out there. and one of the things you talk about that's near and dear to my heart is that, that we've, we've kind of come at the same discovery is when you're operating a fleet of anything, the, at the end of the day to make it work, you have to keep that fleet busy. so at Spiffy, for example, we have three lines of business, and if we only had one of one of them, the whole thing wouldn't work. So we do consumers at home. We do consumers that office parks, and then we do fleet kind of operations. And what's Nice about that is consumers and office parks, they're busiest Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday residential or weekends, and then fleets kind of our fill in there. Scot: [40:38] And I've, you know, the, the slides I've seen you talk about, you know, you have some really interesting insights into if we go to this world where there's all these people operating these fleets, there is a utilization channel challenge. And, you know, I think one of your, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you talk about kind of operating a lot of different models as a way to optimize that. Share with listeners some of the things you guys are seeing there and your recommendations for fleet operators. Cause I think it's, it also ties into interesting consumer behaviors. Mark: [41:08] Absolutely. When you operate a consumer service, each business model or, or for each offering that you have, there's a natural demand curve for it. So we noticed that with, with car sharing, you know, the free floating car sharing those vehicles tend to get used in the middle of the day. People, people will use it to run their errands in the middle of the day. There's less concern about, finding parking, at night. Maybe people are going to restaurants and there's drinking involved in, you don't want to be driving yourself so that if you were just to have a free floating car sharing fleet, you can probably get into the 20 percentile, 25% utilization, which is really good. And you know better than just having a station-based fleet, which had, it gets about 15%. I mean it's meaning it's used about 15% of the time throughout the 24 hour clock. Mark: [42:10] If you can start to take those cars that you know, we're going to be sitting and unused in the evenings or early mornings and put, Uber and Lyft drivers in them, you can then start to reach more and you know, stack these demand curves so that the cars are now being used at night. They're being used early in the morning and they're being used in the middle of the day. But for different purposes. BMW's reach now service has, they found that when their fleet of beautiful, you know, pretty new BMW vehicles that they, they could start their own a ride hailing service where they would have one app. They built this app using the Ridecell Sdk. So they were able to create their own look and feel. And it was the first app that I think, that we know of in the world that allows you to raise a reserve, a car share vehicle, or press a different button and request a ride. Mark: [43:11] And that, you know, their chauffeurs shows up, with the white gloves and the hat and when they pull up, they, you know, get out and open the door for you. So they're offering a very high level of service, in a beautiful but understated vehicle. that might be priced competitive to say Uber Black, but you know, you're not showing up in a Cadillac Escalade. You're showing up in in a three series vehicle, which in an environmentally correct. A city like Seattle is, is definitely a feature over the, you know, the big gas guzzler. So it's the ability to use the fleets for the best and highest use at any given time is what lets these companies get utilization rates that are well into the, you know, 30 percentile and you know, even those that are stationed and apartment buildings can get into the 40 percentile, meaning that they are used 10 times more than a car gets used from a private vehicle owner. Mark: [44:15] You know, a privately owned car on average sits parked 96% of the time and so, and it's being used about 4% of the time. And that's really the power of the shared mobility revolution is that these are used by multiple people throughout the day, not just, you know, dedicated to a single person. When you think about some of these subscription services where you can change the car every month, that's not quite shared mobility because it's still one car, a one person. It's when the cars are able to be used, lots of different times of day is when that vehicle then starts to really get a multiple in terms of how much value it's getting extracted from it. Scot: [45:03] Very cool, so this is a really important point. I want to restate it and make sure I understand it. So, so we kind of have personal ownership is where we are today and that's kind of like a 4% utilization or or 96% idle, station-based, you kind of say around 15%. Then you layer in the free flowing, model, which you talked about that gets you to 20%. and then you know, that seems to be kind of weekday kind of utilization and then you can layer in evening and, and other off time with ride hailing. Now you're getting in, you know, maybe even some density on the apartment side and you get into that 30 to 40% layer. Is that kinda how you're thinking about that stacks up. Mark: [45:42] Exactly. So having a platform that allows you to do all these different business models is really the key that helps you unlock the maximum value, for any particular vehicle. Scot: [45:54] Cool. So if, if that version of the world is true, you guys are in a great spot. Mark: [46:00] I think the last piece too is just using today's insights to make sure that the consumer experience is up to par. making sure that these cars were made clean, that they remain and in the best possible spot for people to find discover them, to keep them well maintained with some predictive diagnostics. and then using the power of the crowd to operate and run these experiences more efficiently. Can we talked about, we have a predictive model. It shows for each vehicle how long before it gets rented and if it's, you know, 10, 12 hours then that there's an economic incentive to pay somebody to go there and move the car. But what we found is that we can also, change the color of that vehicles, pin on the map and offer it for 20% off and people will, you know, we can see where they pull the APP open. Mark: [47:03] They will, they will happily walk 10 blocks to that car that's probably not going to get used and use it for their trip in order to save money. So rather than paying $20 to move the card, $25, we're now essentially making 10, $12 on that vehicle rental and you know, have a very high likelihood of it ending up in a much better place. So being able to take and use, use these insights from the big data platform and get people, you know, kind of sharing the benefit of, hey, if you're willing to walk a little farther, we'll give you a nice discount that will make it worth your while. And we found that people are, you know, some people love a deal and we'll go happily go a long way to get that car that will really save them some money on their overall ride. Scot: [47:53] It's kind of funny cause that's the exact same decisions you make when you're selling a widget on Amazon. It's kind of funny. You can, you can move it faster if you lower the price or you could, you know, layers, some expense through ads or something on top of it. So it's kind of funny how these worlds collide in a lot of different ways. As things go digital, you start to see these patterns over and over again. Cool. Well, I know we're right up against time. Any last thoughts you want to share with listeners about where you see things going in the next five or 10 years? Mark: [48:21] Yeah, certainly. I think a lot of people today have a feeling that like, you know what, I'm not getting rid of my car and, and I don't expect very many people will get rid of their car, you know, in advance of the overall revolution. What I think probably it will happen is what's happened with me living here in San Francisco is that I, you know, between writing my electric bike everywhere and ticketing Uber's and lifts, I'm the evening and using, Gig car to get around that, you know, my car is sitting in my garage, you know, on a battery charger. And the other day I realized that I bought a box of CD's sitting right next to my car in the garage that don't get used either. And at some point you realize I'm just not using it and I'm still paying x dollars a year to insure it and licensed it and you know, as much as I would, I love, I'm a car guy. Mark: [49:28] I love owning cars. It's, it, it will creep up on you when you realize that it's been weeks since you've used the vehicle, maybe your lease is up. and, let's, let's try this share mobility thing out for real. So it's, you know, I don't think anybody's asking people to, to get rid of their cars and faith, but what will happen is they'll become like that box of cds. You just stopped using it and at some point you realize I should probably sell these or get rid of them before, say the value completely goes out of it. Scot: [50:01] It's usually after you've moved him a couple times when you have that very strong incentive to say like, why am I, why am I moving this physical media around? Yeah. Mark: [50:08] Exactly. Scot: [50:11] Cool. Mark: [50:11] All right, well thanks so much Scot, and this has been a good conversation. Scot: [50:14] Yeah. And if, you know, I think folks are going to really love your insights if they want to kind of follow your thinking online. do you, are you a big tweeter or on linkedin or where, where do you publish your, your thoughts on where we're going? Mark: [50:27] Yeah, just search Mark Thomas, Ridecell on Linkedin and follow me. I do, share quite a bit of news and occasionally write articles about how the future is shaping out. Scot: [50:40] Cool. Well thanks for coming on the podcast. you know, my year wait was well worth it and some really great insights and appreciate you coming on. Mark: [50:47] Thanks again, Scot.

Success with Multi Channel Marketing

The Quiet Light Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 2, 2019 34:30

Is direct response marketing an “old school” trend? People in the e-commerce world have historically looked at direct response as outdated. Direct response has been around for so long because it has a track record for success and e-commerce marketers can actually learn a lot from the direct response marketing approach. Some marketing experts are now fusing the two into a cross-channel style of marketing. Today's guest, John Santilli, comes from more than twenty years in the direct response television world and is here to share his experiences in identifying a product's potential to sell across multiple distribution channels. John's new marketing company, Star Logic, works with e-commerce firms to help them determine whether infomercials or other forms of direct marketing can create a lift in their online sales. Episode Highlights: Insight into John's background in sales and omnichannel marketing. How the previous norms of the non-online marketing ecosystem can work in conjunction with online. Ways John's background helped him learn to fuse these systems of marketing and boost client's online sales. We touch on the evolution of Amazon in the way products are marketed. The algorithm John uses to calculate the correlation between direct response marketing and the online environment. How his marketing company is able to run this algorithm in order to predict ways a product's success could be boosted. Examples of success John has seen when applying multichannel marketing. The time it takes to see a sales boost with the direct tv model and the science behind pushing that “nag factor” to increase sales velocity. Benefits of omnichannel marketing as a selling point for businesses in the acquisition arena. Transcription: Joe: So Mark a couple of podcasts ago you used the term old school in terms of one of the … your podcast and what he does and you know when we started talking about this particular episode I am all in old school apparently because the old school direct response marketing is what I did. I came from the radio direct response marketing world and Walker is not the only producer here. I've produced two TV infomercials. They had many many spot ads and even hosted one. I just have to throw that in there because Walker is such a celebrity here at Quiet Light with a bestselling book and all that good stuff, Netflix, documentary and all that stuff. I didn't make any money but … maybe a little bit but we're starting to see a trend of a little bit that old school direct response TV production and advertising combined with the e-commerce world where somebody has got an e-commerce product and they're driving traffic both to a call center which is what I did but now online to a website or to Amazon for the products as well. And you had somebody on the site … I'm sorry on the podcast that focuses specifically on that. Mark: Yeah I know he comes from that direct response TV market world. That's his background and we were just talking about this Joe but it's kind of like these two types of business models in direct response grew up a little separately and kind of despised each other initially or looked at each other with skepticism. A lot of the guys in the direct response internet world looked at direct mail and infomercials as this outdated dinosaur sort of way of marketing. And the direct to TV market and direct mail market advertisers look at these new kids with their internet like it will never last and these are real businesses. Now what we're seeing is these guys are looking at each other and seeing maybe if we work together in this cross channel … now there's a buzz word for you, cross channel sort of marketing both in the offline and online world there is a lift that can happen in the online world. And so I talked to John Santilli really his whole specially is direct response TV infomercials. That's what he does. And now he's working with online firms to help them determine if we were to do a commercial … an infomercial and run this for three months, six months or what have you what's the lift going to be in the online world and does it make sense to do this. I love this idea here because when we look at an online business for sale one of the things I want to see, I want to see do they have this stability? This kind of multi-channel approach for attracting customers and if they do that's a good thing. And we often think multichannel … okay, I'll get my Facebook, I'll get my PPC, I'll setup a Shopify store but there's more than just the online channel. And when we start going into the offline channel there's a certain amount of brand that comes up with it that they can't build entirely online right? Like when you see something on TV it'll hold a little bit more weight than just something that you see online. So this whole conversation with John was how does he make these assessments? What's been the history of this direct response TV market and how can it help online sellers. Joe: Yeah, it doesn't just build value in terms of more online revenue but its offline revenue as well with people ordering directly from TV. You can also look at products and putting them on HSN or QVC and things of that nature and what it does is you've got multiple channels of revenue. It's going to boost the value of your company not just because discretionary earnings are higher but if it's large enough a private equity firm is going to pay a much higher multiple for a multiple channel product line coming from different avenues. That was one of the presentations at the Prosper Show that mimics or mimicked almost everything we've been saying for the last six or seven years. So I think it's a great idea for those that currently own internet based businesses selling a physical product or those folks that are considering buying one and thinking okay this person bootstrapped it they've gotten to a certain point and they want to move on to their next adventure how can I take this to the next level and look at this TV advertising as well. And it's a great option. Let's go to it. Mark: John thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. I appreciate you taking the time here. I know you and I have talked over the past few months about various Amazon opportunities and I asked you to come on the podcast mainly because your background in this direct response TV advertising and really omni-channel marketing, going outside of the Amazon and internet ecosystems into these more traditional mediums to really boost brands is pretty extensive. I would love for you to just give a quick background on yourself for our audience and your experience and what … kind of catch people up in our conversations for the past few months. John: Sure. No problem. Thank you very much, Mark, again for having me on the podcast. Hopefully, your listeners will find some value in what we're talking about today certainly as we've been having our conversations and give them a little bit about my background first and then we could get more into that but my background basically I've been in sales and marketing for the last 20 years. I spent the majority of my career with two companies. Primarily those companies have all been marketing … both of these companies are marketing dependent companies offering budgets of I'm going to say 3.5 million up to 55 million dollars at some point in time and margins ranging from 20% all the way to 100% at some times. I touched almost every marketing means that there is whether that be from direct mail … direct response TV which we'll talk a lot about today and also within the digital side of things, generation side of things. As I've said direct mail I sent out about five a week this is a direct mail on a monthly basis at one point in time. I spent about 25 million dollars a year on TV. My last company I was the executive producer … in-house executive producer for the company. I produced over 120 TV commercials that 30 of them actually went to a retail rollout generating over 250 million dollars in business. With that company, I co-created an algorithm which really gave us the ability to identify under marketed products and new inventions that had the most unique attributes, had the most mass market appeal, and were suited really to go to retail. Our job was to really find, filter, quip products and what that really means is that be again we took products that were under marketed, new inventions, filter them through a proprietary algorithm that we designed and tested those products through that algorithm and then joint ventured with a partner and pushed that into retail. And that was really a direct response TV model. Much of you will actually recognize that as “As Seen On TV” products, those late night infomercials, those daytime commercials. Mark: So you're the ones that if I'm at the gym in the middle of the day and I see something come up and it's that sort of infomercial type of commercial, you're the one that was putting those on? John: Yes. Exactly. We're … I mean it's actually a very small market. You'd see a lot of commercials on TV but it is a very small market. Initially, it must be a profit channel in at itself. The direct response was the first news … it was the first area to market goods and services direct to the consumer bypassing retail. The goal of direct response really is to take a … to break even or take a small loss. It really has been to entice consumers to go to retail and to purchase at retail. It effectively became the focus of all DRTV campaigns was to air a lot of media, get people to walk inside the store and buy it. Mark: Right. Now in our current economy especially the internet based economy we've completely bypassed a lot of these channels that were built up frankly over decades and we've had this whole ecosystem system kind of buildup of internet and we're seeing that direct to a direct response TV market as well as retail market. I'll try to scramble and catch up and see if they could also tap into the Internet market area as well. One thing I find fascinating, I went to Traffic and Conversion a few months ago or about a month ago … actually not even that long ago. It doesn't matter. Richard Branson was one of the keynote speakers and one of the things that struck me from that conversation that he had with all of us was the idea that … the idea of all marketing that used to be the norm, right? He did crazy stunts just to be able to get on the front page of the newspaper. And today I think a lot of us we look at our businesses and we think about it in terms of how can I manage my Amazon PPC account or how can … for a SaaS company how can I get the right onboarding process and find the right customer acquisition channels online and what you're talking about is let's look a little bit beyond that. There's this whole developed ecosystem of marketing that exists which can really work in conjunction with the online environment. With your previous experience did either of your companies get into that where you are using this omni-channel marketing outside of the internet to boost the online sales? John: Absolutely. So that really is the evolution of the business at this point in time. I mean it's revolutionary where of course just like you mentioned and it's really … you know I have since left the last organization that I was with. I've founded a new company its Star Logic Marketing and the reason why I've called it what I call it because first of all everything out there right now is based off of reviews and star ratings that are out there. If you see something on TV today, okay the first thing you do is you pick up your phone and you take a look on Amazon. You see if it's on Amazon, you see the star ratings and reviews that are on it, you take a look at the price and then you act to buy. So it changed … definitely, the game has changed completely. Through our proprietary algorithm that I kind of mentioned to you the way that we filter products has been based through a survey process. We do a web test which really put the customer … put our product in front of the customer and position them to act on it here. Here's an offer out there we like to buy it. And the direct response model in the past when you had 10% of your orders going through direct marketing today that's up to 50, 60, 70% of your orders are going to order through the web. And whether that'd be through Amazon, whether that'd be through traditional e-com that's the way that people acted on it. So over time, you saw this evolution happening. It started impacting the way that we marketed products, the way that we looked at our marketing in general. We had to consider the fact that 20% of the people were actually going to go buy from Amazon versus going to your e-com site or picking up the phone and calling you. And again there is a higher number of people that were actually ordering off with their phones so you had to make sure that your mobile marketing was done properly. So this omni-channel marketing as you indicated is just so important today for every company whether you are holistically selling on FBA at this point in time and that's when you and I started having these conversations and really what got me excited about this whole thing which is that whether you're selling wholly on FBA and not taking advantage of the digital ecosystem out there, the direct response pieces that are out there, the Home Shopping Networks that are out there, international Amazon, and making sure that you also take a look at traditional retail as well as international retail, is really what I think is a great opportunity for our product and product businesses that— Mark: Alright so what you're talking about here is you have basic infomercial or commercial and somebody is at home and they're up at one o'clock in the morning and watching reruns of I Love Lucy and something comes on they'll potentially see and so they end up typing it into their phone because everyone now watches TV with their phones as well right? And the product pops up and we can see this direct correlation now between direct response on TV leading and bleeding directly into the online environment. You've mentioned a couple of times that you guys have an algorithm that you run these opportunities through, can you talk a little bit more about that? John: Sure absolutely. So it really is you have so many things at your fingertips these days. I mean first of all, you used to take catalogs from your house. You go into stores and you see products and stuff like that. There's products everywhere; all over the place. In the past you'd search for products through Google and we would just take a look at products in Google or a catalog and find some unique things and we said well how do we find out what works, what doesn't work, what's the best opportunity for retail whether it's traditional retail or online retail. They're two different things but they still have some unique drivers behind and that get people to buy it right? So they got to be unique. Alright, they have to be they feel like they haven't seen it somewhere before. They now have to be of great quality and they have to have the right price point to get people to impulsively buy it. So what we would do is we would go through a survey process first. My background and my disciplines in the direct mail business is in creative makes people buy but also there are consumer behaviors that made people buy it. So what we did is we asked a series of questions in a survey basis state consistent with those questions and over time became … it had benchmarks that said this product is unique, this product is an everyday product, this product appeals to a large percentage of the marketplace. And those were some of the main drivers that made us … that help us go to stage two which was web testing. So now in web testing, we would do a couple of different things. We would do a very small teaser video or a vlog tech video that demonstrated the product in a way that you quickly understood okay I need this. And we put a very quick order page together where it wasn't an elaborate brand type of web store or web page; it was an order taking page. It was built to just take orders. And we would have people go into these. We'd do an e-mail blast of let's say 300,000 people, 150,000 people, and sometimes even a million people and get benchmarks based off of conversions, click rates, click views, orders, average order amount, how many products did they actually order through that, and those benchmarks were also tied to our algorithm and they remain consistent and we try to make sure that we form long term benchmarks. Those filtering process is whether it was the way that the product has originally come to us and looked at by our view meeting which had people on there from a lot of Home Shopping Networks and people that have been in my industry for years but also the survey process, the web testing process, those benchmarks once they've qualified we would actually put a TV commercial together. And just put a little science next to the art of just putting something on TV. Instead of doing just a … what we refer to is or what I refer to as a spray and pray approach where you just spray your product everywhere and see if it works it add a little more science to it. Mark: Sure. So now with the current marketing firm that you just recently founded that's doing this what your basic appeal for somebody that might be listening here is that you'd be able to take a look at that product if somebody has a private brand that they built and maybe are doing well with on Amazon, you'd be able to take that and run through this testing process to be able to see what the possible or potential impact on revenues and growth would be if they were to go to the direct response TV market. Am I understanding that right? John: Absolutely. I mean you nailed it. I mean really what it comes down to is this is that through this process we feel like we can go into any retail store for example and if you have a product line and you say this is my entire product line we feel like we can go from A through Z process and say A has the best opportunity to succeed; Z, put it on the shelf. It'll still sell but put it on the shelf it's not going to be your most appealing product that's out there in your marketplace. And really that's what the system does, but in addition to that, it helps identify your best opportunity to go through TV and other channels because I think that all products have a home, right? It's just a matter of how big is that home. And then I think that's what the process is designed to do. Mark: How long does it take you guys to figure out what that impact would be from a direct response campaign? John: Great question. So the initial process that we're talking about from a survey, web testing type of a platform I mean that really could take one to two months depending upon what kind of assets that we have. Or it could take a little bit longer depending upon if we want to … if we get any data that says we need to tweak the product a little bit. So if we find out that people like your product through this process and they have an attraction to your product but there's a couple of different variables that they may want to see more, a couple of different features that they want more on a product a light for an example or something better of quality. This doesn't look as quality … the quality that I want. We may take a step back [inaudible 00:09:04.2] but if you have the completed product that's ready to go if you wanted two months to do that initial survey web testing platform then you go into developing your TV commercial and maybe you're talking about another two to three months before you actually get on the air and test everything and really are good to go. One thing I just want to make sure that I'm clear with is I've said to you that every product has a home that [inaudible 00:19:30.1] that they should be in. Through this evolution and this process, we found that some products just belong on the digital atmosphere versus TV. So an example of that would be is that we actually have a product and tested at $10 price point on TV a few years ago and it did not meet the metrics to push that product into retail and do a large spend on TV. What we wound up doing with that product and we tested it on digital because the metrics weren't making sense. We were getting false positives on our web platform seeing that people who are ordering this product through web but they weren't ordering it through TV. So we started testing inside the digital ecosystem and the next thing you know a year and a half later that we've been marketing this product digitally at a $29 price point at a 19.99 price point and had major success just by utilizing the digital atmosphere. Mark: Interesting. So you talked about gathering some data to be able understand do people want to buy this product, do they like the product, and maybe is there a product adjustment that needs to happen, can't we just look at how the product is succeeding on Amazon and look at the reviews to be able to gather most of that information? And could we maybe accelerate that two to three month process if we were to just look and say hey I have a product that's been on Amazon for three years saying I've got 2,000 reviews of it with all sorts of feedback on this? Is there other data outside of that that you need or is that a good starting point that would get you most of the way there to be able to identify a product that would succeed in that direct response TV market. John: Yeah, that's a great question and it's a little bit of a complex answer. I'll try to simplify by basically saying to this I mean I think there's a lot of smart people listening so I won't insult your intelligence by basically saying that either people got their products on Amazon as an early adopter of Amazon or people put their products on Amazon and they wound up first in your category. So some of that behavior helped them get those reviews, helped them get that success early on. And that's my belief. Anyway that product is not necessarily unique and if you marketed that product on TV it would not have the same success as it would have on Amazon or digitally because for example marshmallow sticks, you hear all of the success of marshmallow sticks and the examples of marshmallow sticks and the success on Amazon I don't think you could put marshmallow sticks on a digital campaign or a TV campaign. Does that make sense? Mark: Yeah, that makes sense. I wasn't aware that marshmallow sticks were a big thing. Are they a big thing in Amazon? John: I actually was just reading an article about how someone made a half million dollars in a short period of time by being one of the pioneers of marshmallow sticks on Amazon so it was a very interesting [inaudible 00:22:27.9] for me. Mark: Now all of our listeners are going to go out and buy a few crates of marshmallow sticks and throw them up on Amazon and that entire market is going to be ruined. John: Exactly. No I mean I think that in general, I would say to you this, what fascinated me Mark in our conversations and when we were going from in you know we sold in writing on a wall two years ago in the direct response business. And what I mean by that is that like I said we saw this quick evolution of all of a sudden 10% of the people that saw your commercial on TV bought from the web. All of a sudden it's a 50%, 60%. In addition to that, we saw 20% of your orders actually going to Amazon. So we saw it being very difficult, you go into a TV advertising campaign with the goal of breaking even but if you lost 20 cents on a dollar, 30 cents on a dollar you would know in the old world that you'd get that money back because you air a lot of TV and you actually would see a lot of people go to the retail store and you get an 8:1 ratio. So for every one person that brought on your TV ad and called in through the phone or jumped on the web, you would see eight people buy at retail. So those numbers started changing rapidly. And when you and I started talking it was when it clicked to me and said [inaudible 00:23:54.9] couple of things. One is that we had a couple of trial campaigns that we spent, we developed a lot of money … we'd spend a lot of money on Facebook trying to develop a campaign. We'd sold a hundred thousand units of one product on Facebook alone, okay? A lot of these people guide brand awareness very quickly of our product just on an online basis that does not necessarily translate to retail at all. What had happened was is that we saw that Amazon boarded it's like unwanted competition, you heard all about that, unwanted competition, you … traditional direct response TV and we spend a couple of million dollars in a very short period of time advertising for our product and then we'd be shipping in half a million units overseas. So now everybody overseas is getting alerts and anybody that tracks imports is getting alerts on what had … what products are being most successful? We're airing this stuff on TV, you have an international competition coming in and putting your product, your brand up on Amazon right away with lower prices. Maybe not the same quality and we saw a major impact happening to you know we weren't able to market the same way. So that 20% or that 10 cents lost, that 20 cents lost on the dollar started becoming 50 cent losses on a dollar and we had to figure out different ways to market our product. And you had to look at it more holistically. You had to look at Amazon, digital and really start playing a different game. And I think that when you and I started talking and I started seeing these [inaudible 00:25:37.5] Amazon centric companies when they were only living inside the Amazon atmosphere they're saying some of these products are awesome, some of these product lines are great why haven't they tested some of these other channels. I can see that maybe they tested a little bit of digital because once I've clicked on their web site they started following me around [inaudible 00:25:58.9] Facebook, Instagram, everywhere. They didn't really have any type of marketing dollars or marketing spent outside of the Amazon atmosphere. So the reality is that I just see this as a huge opportunity for any of the FBA type companies that are sitting out there to say hey what other channels can I market to really explode this business and really put my business on steroids. I think you know and I know and you know better than me for sure that those multiples that are being paid on these businesses when you put them up for sale I think that if they have more of an omni-channel approach towards things, if they have a good Facebook presence, if they have a lot of Facebook followers that are around there I think it just makes their platform that much stronger and that business much more saleable. Mark: So anyways there hasn't been a whole lot of crossover between these silos in the past, right? We've really kind of stayed true to the one areas and part of this is just because of the opportunity that exists. And in talking to sellers and business owners who are working in the Amazon space their businesses are growing rapidly without having to go outside. But I do think that looking outside of Amazon whether it'd be through digital marketing and I know a lot of our clients are starting to do that but also into these more traditional areas is the way that we need to stay ahead of that curve right? We all know we have to say ahead of the competitive curve. What are some examples of lift that you've seen from applying this omni-channel focus and I apologize, I didn't prep you for this question so if you don't have numbers off the top of your head that's fine but I just want to get a sense for what are we looking at here by exploring this option of omni-channel marketing and especially when we're looking at going outside of Amazon but even outside of the internet as well into more traditional forms of marketing. John: It's an excellent question and although you did not prep me for it, it is something that we live in every single day. So I'm going to try to answer in a couple of different ways. First of all I would say to that if you are an Amazon centric company, we'll focus on that first, and you are not taking advantage of some of the digital or traditional DRTV, direct response TV channels I would say to you this; so the curve in the direct response TV industry is about 18 months. So in 18 months, that's kind of your life cycle. And traditionally it's been [inaudible 00:28:34.9] of a life cycle because get this grand awareness of this product, you're ahead of the competition and you try to outrun the competition by just flooding the market with a bunch of products. So some of our products in that 18 month life cycle yielded 6, 10, 15, 20 million dollars' worth of revenue during that short window of time. So if you have access to inventory, if you have access to the product if it is a DRTV type of a product I think an 18 month window and developing several million dollars' worths of revenue is very obtainable. The other piece of that is this for those products that did not work on direct response TV and really you test into the digital ecosystem, there's a lot of companies and I think everyone will agree that Facebook is your work force in that spectrum. However if you go about it in some of the more scientific ways and try to figure out where your audience is, whether you're doing some display banner type ads to learn where your audience is and where to target better, we've seen some of those companies that they may have been exploring to try and get into retail. They weren't there yet but they decided let me try to play holistically on the digital side first. We've seen some of those companies in a matter of three to six months generate quick huge revenues and be what we call a double return on your investment. I mean a double return on your investment on the marketing side of things; maybe a triple return on your investment and its either three to six months with a nice digital plan. The amount of traction that you wind up getting at retail if you're able to get into traditional retail we know how hard it is to get in traditional retail but the amount of lift that you get could be easily 50% lift at traditional retail when you're running some type of direct response maybe in combination with a little bit of digital TV figure campaign. Pretty good deal target right? We could figure out exactly where your products are being sold and deal target that as well. So does that answer your question? Mark: Yeah, that definitely helps. I have one more question for you and I've played around with radio advertising for one of my other companies and the general rule that I keep hearing over and over with the radio ads was look you need to run it for three months. You need to have the right saturation and frequency in order for it to really take effect. Do you have that same effect with television ads? Does it take time before you start seeing that lift? John: Absolutely. It's impressions. Everything's based off of impressions and you need a certain amount impressions across a broad audience and to a specific audience in order for you to get them to buy. So there is a science to that that our media buyers actually play with on a regular basis and they … you'll see … I mean a great example of that is kids items; children's items. We always call it the nag factor. So you really want to put those impressions inside of a child's head so they go to mom and dad and they basically say Mom I want that. Mom, I want that. A lot of our media for kid's items is 60 seconds spots, 30 seconds spots so you're just really driving everybody to impressions and driving them to retail. They're also direct response type of ads but you're really trying to get the impressions in their head. Get the nag factor to go and really get them to buy. Mark: That's fantastic. Alright if somebody wants to learn more about this where can they reach? John: Star Logic Marketing is the name of my company. As I said I just started the company a couple of months ago. My phone number is 215-694-3118. You can look me up on LinkedIn. I have all of my LinkedIn information. The website is still being and would be finalized the next … hopefully, a couple of weeks here but Star Logic Marketing is the name of the company. We do think that this omni-channel type of approach is a way for you to really put your products and your product lines on steroids when you jump outside of just the Amazon ecosystem and really you take up the edge of the more omni-channel marketing opportunities. Mark: I think there's all sorts of benefits for Amazon sellers and I think those that have been in the game for a while might be thinking in their heads of some of these things and think sales velocity for one. Being able to really power up the number of sales of launching new products as well would be another benefit that I definitely see with this and a really fascinating concept. And I think probably the way that we're going to see things go. I have a couple of additional questions for you but I think we're running out of time at this point so thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I do appreciate it and I hope to have you on again in the future. John: Thanks, Mark I really hope it was of value to your audience. I do think that there is a great opportunity for the people that you're speaking with in a regular basis to really help improve the opportunity to sell their businesses by leveraging all of these [inaudible 00:33:41.9]. So thank you for having me on and I look forward to the next time we talk. Mark: Thanks, John. John: Take care. Links and Resources: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnvsantilli https://starlogicmarketing.com/ coming soon Reach John @ 215-694-3118

The Q - 394 - Three Way Dance

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 16, 2019 81:53

Producer Bobby and Gary Weed join on this episode of the Q. And it's huge because it is the first show since the Super Bowl when Mark and Gary have been face to face. Lot of Trash talking between the two on many previous episodes...but that all was settled with Tom Brady and the Patriots winning the Super bowl.... Which brings us to the first discussion. A new Football league debuted called the AAF. This is the second of what will eventually be 3 different major football leagues including the upcoming XFL. Mark and the guy all took a look at the new league and liked what they saw....but can a third league come into the fray and be able to maintain it's success. That's three full football franchises and we know the NFL is not going to lose out in the end. So Mark asks "Can the country sustain 3 leagues at once." Find out what everyone says. Next up Mark discusses the professionalism of organizations in the US that he does business with on a consistent basis. How they should and shouldn't treat people. How companies mess up their brand in the eyes of others and get bad word of mouth. Finally the guys discuss some of the stigma of growing up in North County St. Louis. This leads to Mark explaining about the past 20 years of North St. Louis County, specifically Florissant, and where it stands today. Mark grew up there and explains why people have left the area and how it's viewed by people outside of Florissant today. All this and much more on the newest episode of the Q!

donald trump nfl super bowl radio football missouri wwe tom brady patriots trash weed xfl bland aaf professionalism hickman threeway louis county obert north st so mark florissant way dance

The Q - 393 - F-U Clap

YMP Classic Feed – Yes Music Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 7, 2019 76:41

So the 2019 State of the Union address came and went. When it was all over, the only thing people remembered was the F-U Clap that Nancy Pelosi directed towards Donald Trump. With that, Jonathan May and Jason Kull join Mark Bland on this episode of the Q to discuss the State of the Union Address. What everyone took from it, but more importantly, what they thought the current State of the Union looks like from their eyes. This turns into discussion about people in the USA being their own worst enemies. Making choices and decisions to shoot themselves in the foot constantly. Mark then explains he will shoot himself in the foot and the reaction from Jonathan is not to be missed. Then the show takes a weird turn. Jason claims that his hometown of Keokuk, Iowa has more to do in it than St. Louis has in it. Of course, Jon and Mark disagree heavily. So it begins...the great city showdown of 2019. This leads to Mark posing the question of how Missouri would react if tomorrow the USA became 50 individual countries. How would Missouri fair in that situation. From there things take a turn for the musical as the guys start talking about music artists in the Superbowl and eventually the talk turns to diva's. Who are the great diva's, what makes them diva's....and is there a something that they have to do consistently keeps them in the DIVA spotlight? Also on the discussion because of the Superbowl is Colin Kaepernick. Jonathan and Mark spark up debate on why Colin still is not playing in the NFL. Finally the talk becomes about people and some of their weird and awkward opinions on Life. So Mark grabs a few opinions and wants to gage the mental standing of Jason and Jonathan. Do you agree with their statements or are they ridiculous....you tell us in the comments below. All this and much more in this episode of The Q!

YMP 2018 Mixtape – 364

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 21, 2018 46:51

Season's Greetings! Produced by Jeffrey Crecelius, Wayne Hall, Preston Frazier and Bill Govier As we reach the end of 2018, it's time to look back at what the 50th Anniversary of Yes has brought - and the output of the YMP. So Mark and I have collected together a few of our favourite moments. We hope you enjoy them. What were the highlights of the YMP in 2018? What went on in YES5o? Which clips will be featured? Listen to the episode then let us know what you think! Geoff Bailie's New Yes Show! Episode 6 of Geoff Bailie's brand new Yes show! https://progreport.com/radio/ Live at 7pm UK and 10am Eastern Time on Fridays! Then, get it on iTunes/Apple Podcasts. Yes50Fanconvention.com is now live! Become a YMP Patron: If you would like to support the Yes Music Podcast financially, there is a special page you can use to sign up and December 2018 is the time to join us: Become a Patron! Show notes and links Get your Yes 50th Anniversary free pass here Join the 50th Anniversary Facebook group here YMP patrons: Jeffrey Crecelius | Preston Frazier | Bill Govier | Wayne Hall | ... Robert Nasir | Joseph Cottrell | Michael O'Connor | Paul Tomei | Geoffrey Mason | Lobate Scarp | Fergus Cubbage | Steve Dill | Steve Scott | Peter Hearnden | Aaron Steelman | John Thomson | Paul Wilson | Jamie McQuinn | Miguel Falcão | Ken Fuller | David Pannell | Brian Sullivan | Joost Doesburg | Jeremy North | Tim Stannard | David Watkinson | Steve Roehr | Geoff Baillie | William Hayes | Terence Sadler | Neal Kaforey | Simon Barrow | Dave Owen | John Cowan | Mark 'Zarkol' Baggs | Keith Hoisington | Scott Colombo | Guy DeRome | Chris Bandini | David Heyden | John Thomson | Fred Barringer | Dem | ... Robert Please subscribe! If you are still listening to the podcast on the website, please consider subscribing so you don’t risk missing anything. You can subscribe with an RSS reader, with iTunes, with the iOS Podcasts app, via email updates, via www.stitcher.com on Spreaker.com or via Tunein.com. Theme music The music I use is the last movement of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. This has been used as introduction music at many Yes concerts. My theme music is not take from a live concert - I put it together from the following two creative commons sources: thanvannispen and archive.org

live united kingdom mixtape spreaker tunein stravinsky ymp so mark ios podcasts wayne hall yes music podcast jeffrey crecelius

The Q - 380 - Halloween Nationalism

nintendo returning e3 jacobs rare replay diddy kong racing so mark jet force gemini nintendo nostalgia

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 25, 2018 105:26

Donald Trump went on a Houston stage at a rally and decided to let the world know that "I'm a Nationalist". Unfortunately for Trump, he meant to say "I'm a Patriot". Now a bunch of supporters are going around trying to make it okay to be white and call yourself a nationalist. Being a white skinned nationalist is not a good thing. The nationlism movement is ripe with men and women that are heavily prejudice and antagonistic in their handling of day to day decisions. So Mark grabbed Producer Bobby and Jonathan May to sit down and discuss these things. But Producer Bobby doesnt' see the issue with a person running around calling themselves a nationalist. Mark and Jon have a one on one with Bobby trying to decipher between nationalism and patriotism....see where this convo goes. But also on the the heels of the nationalism situation, we had random pipe bomb's being mailed to Hillary Clinton, Robert Deniro and many others that ave spoken out against Trump. Plus a migrant caravan is slowly approaching the USA on foot and we have to decide what to do when they get here...should we let them in and start the naturalization process, or do we draw a line in the sand? We discuss this at length! Finally, Dr. Susan Shumsky is a paranormal investigator and self described Ghost Buster. She joins Mark on this 2018 Halloween show to discuss ghosts and spirits. Why do ghost exists and why don't ghost just go to heaven and stick around here on earth. Dr. Susan touches on exorcisms and a few stories of things that she has had happen while out and about helping people with their ghost issues. All this and much much more on this episode of The Q!

Jet Force Gemini

Nintendo Nostalgia

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 2, 2018

Nintendo Nostalgia 83 (Jet Force Gemini)Nintendo NostalgiaWelcome back everyone to another episode of Nintendo Nostalgia! This week Ryan and Clay could not make it so we had to fill their shoes with two awesome guests! The first returning is the guy whos got Diddy Kong Racing all wrong, Mark Carabin from Warp Whistle Gaming! Our second guest has been hiding in the shadows for far to long, but he has made an appereance here just for us. Returning guest James Mikalojewski is back! We all quickly warp speed into what we have been Radical Rexin About. Such as some new retro games Jacob recently got. Beating Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, and the same hype as before about E3. It's so close we just can't take it! When then get into the topic of the week Jet Force Gemini. After talking about our initial memories with the game Jacobs computer decides to freak out. So Mark and James take the reigns for a good portion of the show. Thanks to both of them for stepping up when needed. They talk about the curses of the game such as being ahead of its time in controlling, and then compare the original 64 version to the RARE Replay remake version. We then talk about if there is any chance for this game to get more life in the future or is a spiritual successor in the future more likely? Well everyone next week is our BIG E3 Predictions episode and we are beyond excited to record it! We will see you all next week when we set the record straight on what's going to go down for Nintendos 2018 E3. See yah then!

#02 - The Return of Theme Hospital

Noclip

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 29, 2018 41:49

We talk to Bullfrog and Lionhead legends Gary Carr and Mark Webley about the design of PC cult classic Theme Hospital, and how their careers twisted and turned to see them return to create a spiritual successor. Learn more about Two Point Hospital: https://www.twopointhospital.com/ Play Theme Hospital: https://www.gog.com/game/theme_hospital Download CorsixTH: http://corsixth.com/ iTunes Page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/noclip/id1385062988 RSS Feed: http://noclippodcast.libsyn.com/rss Google Play: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/If7gz7uvqebg2qqlicxhay22qny Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5XYk92ubrXpvPVk1lin4VB?si=JRAcPnlvQ0-YJWU9XiW9pg Episode transcription: http://noclippodcast.libsyn.com/02-the-return-of-theme-hospital Learn About Noclip: https://www.noclip.video Become a Patron and get early access to new episodes: https://www.patreon.com/noclip Follow @noclipvideo on Twitter Hosted by @dannyodwyer Funded by 4,197 Patrons. -------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPTION; - [Danny] Hello and welcome to Noclip, the podcast about video games and the people who make them. On today's episode, we pay a much needed visit to the video game doctor, as we celebrate the return of a PC cult classic. Bullfrog are synonymous with a wonderful period in time for games development in the United Kingdom. Producing many cult classics including Populus, Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate, and Theme Park. But to me, the jewel in Bullfrog's crown has always been their lesser-known follow up to the theme park management game. While becoming an instant classic in the UK, Theme Hospital is much lesser known here in the United States. So it was quite the surprise to me when, on a date with an American, the girl across the table from me mentioned it as one of her favorite games ever. I think that was the moment I decided I wanted to marry you, was when you mentioned you liked Theme Hospital. - [Lindsay] Oh yeah, that's, like, an important aspect of our relationship. - [Danny] Yeah, what do you remember about that game? - [Lindsay] I remember all the little goofy components of it, like how the people look, and how you can pop heads, and how you can deal with a million Elvis' and the helicopter comes in and has a thousand people on it, and the fancy man comes around with his top hat. - [Danny] Oh yeah, I forgot about the VIP. - [Lindsay] The fancy man. - [Danny] Yeah. And you had to make sure that he didn't, like-- - [Lindsay] See all your rats and shit, like-- So you be, like, "This way, Sir." - [Danny] Or somebody would get sick right in front of him. He kind of looked like the Monopoly man. - [Lindsay] Yeah, he was so fancy. And he, remember when he stopped by all the wards and looked in all the windows, he peaked in. He'd be like, "Oops, not that one, "no one works in there." - [Danny] I wonder how much it mattered. Because when he was walking around, I always thought, oh, I better make sure that wherever he walks we have fire extinguishers. - [Lindsay] Totally. - [Danny] But I bet it was just, like-- - [Lindsay] It was predetermined before he even landed on his helicopter or however he got there. - [Danny] I think this might be the first time I've ever worked on a Noclip project which is a game that you care about? Is that true? I guess Rocket League you liked. - [Lindsay] Rocket League I liked for a few minutes. None of the other video games you've ever done a podcast on, I mean done a documentary on, I've ever even heard of. - [Danny] Yeah. You're not a final fan of C14 fan? - [Lindsay] I've heard of Final Fantasy. I didn't know there were 14 of them, but-- - [Danny]There's way more than 14 of them. - [Lindsay] I've heard of it. Oh, really? - [Danny] Yeah. And since it is the first time I've kind of worked on something that you actually have a deep knowledge of-- - [Lindsay] Oh, I'm excited. - [Danny] If you had any questions, let me be those sort of the translator between you and the developers. What would you ask if you had any questions? - [Lindsay] Well my big question is when they are going to make a sequel. Because as fun as it is to play that pixelly thing, they better make a sequel. My real questions are about the silly things, like how the handyman could smell cabbage or just little silly components that they put in there. - [Danny] It's the doctors, isn't it, it smells faintly of cabbage. - [Lindsay] It smells faintly of cabbage, yeah. - [Danny] When you were hiring them. Oh yeah, I guess the handyman, too. - [Lindsay] Anybody could smell like cabbage in real life. Anyone could smell like cabbage. So I had that question, and also about shooting rats. Like, what that's about and sometimes you could unlock that secret level where it was just rat shooting. And that was really cool. - [Danny] It was kind of random, though. - [Lindsay] Yeah yeah, it was just like-- - [Danny] Like, why does this happen? - [Lindsay] Right, I have some experience in hospitals and I've never once shot a rat, but they thought it was important that we have that component. - [Danny] I can answer the first question. - [Lindsay] Oh, when the sequel's coming out? - [Danny] Yeah, so I decided I wanted to do this a while back, and it took a while for me to hunt down the two main dudes who worked on Theme Hospital. It turns out both of them ended up having really prolific careers and getting to the top of Lionhead Studios, who made a bunch of games. - [Lindsay] The Movies. - [Danny] They made The movies, I remember you love, which is so funny, you love The Movies because it's probably Lionhead's most obscure game. - [Lindsay] The Movies was really hard. I've never made any progress at all in that game. I think I'm doing something wrong, actually. - [Danny] And the guys who, I think both of them actually worked on The Movies as well. - [Lindsay] Well then I have further questions for them of how you achieve anything in that game. - [Danny] We'll have to leave that for another podcast. - [Danny] But I ended up finding them because they're working on a spiritual successor. So after, I think it's been eight, 19 years? Around two decades, and finally you can play a new hospital management game, it's coming out really soon, so-- - [Lindsay] Yes. - [Danny] Let me ask the questions and I'll get back to you. - [Lindsay] Report back. - [Danny] Like report back to you-- - [Lindsay] Thank you. - [Danny] On the condition of our patient. - [Lindsay] Of our fair game. - [Danny] Yeah. - [Mark] Yeah, I'm Mark Webley, I'm one of the founders and I guess I'm game director at Two Point Studios. - [Gary] I'm Gary Carr, I'm also a founder and I'm creative director at Two Point Studios. - [Mark] I kind of heard about Bullfrog, I didn't really know that much about them until I saw this EA poster, a friend of mine worked at EA, and it was a poster with all their games on, it kind of looked like interesting games. You saw this one in the middle, which is, looks incredible, I said, "What the hell was that?" And it was Populus, and I thought, wow that just looks insane, I mean, you kind of looked back at it and you might not see it, but at the time it was, in my view, whoa that looks so different and cool. - [Gary] I think I started a couple years before Mark, I think I started in 89. - [Mark] Yeah, you were definitely before me. - [Gary] So I done my first game at Bullfrog was Powermonger, I was there at the back in the Populus and I did a little bit on the data disks but not very much if I'm honest. I did a little bit actually on Syndicate, but it was called Cyber Assault when I worked on it. - [Mark] I thought it was called Quaz at one point. - [Gary] It was called Bub as well. - [Mark] Bub? Yeah. Just something easy to type. - [Gary] That's the game that we could never actually decide what it was going to be. It was in production forever. - [Danny] Back in the early 90's, the team at Bullfrog was only around eight people led by the excitable hand of a man called Peter Molyneux. The studio operated out of a makeshift office crammed into an attic above a stereo shop and a flat occupied by a chain-smoking old lady. Peter had used his charm to persuade Commodore to lend them a suite of Amiga's and it was on these computers that the team worked on games, games like Powermonger, Syndicate, Magic Carpet, Flood, and Dungeon Keeper. Gary, an artist, left for a time after they had completed the iconic Theme Park. He went to work at famed UK developers the Bitmap Brothers for a number of years before being tempted back to Bullfrog by a devilish dungeon keeper. - [Gary] Yeah, Peter has got a great way of, kind of, sort of making people believe that these things are going to be what they want them to be and he's brilliant at that and I loved the guy for it. But I wanted to come back and do something that wasn't Theme, so I kept saying, "Could the game idea possibly be a dungeon-y game?" And he sort of said, "Could be." What he meant was it could be, but it's not. So I came back, but actually it was the best decision of my life, it really was because it was great to work with Mark. We're very different people, and we both have sort of different things we bring together and we had-- - [Mark] We argue a lot. - [Gary] We argue a lot and we had total freedom. I mean, back then there was only about three or four people that had the luxury to sort of take an idea and own it, and we were one of those few. So it was a great time in our careers, we were at the right time, I think, to sort of build a team together and make that game. When Mark and I were probably at similar age and different types of experience, I'd had a bit more games experience at the time, Mark had had a lot more management experience at the time. - [Mark] But I was a lot smarter. - [Gary] Yeah, I think so. But at this point in time, I think it was when Bullfrog was splitting up into creating teams within Bullfrog because we'd gotten a little bit bigger. So Mark kicked off what was called Pluto, believe it or not, which was the design and series team that was gonna do all the theme games and I was brought in to sort of partner with Mark on this game, we had no idea what was going to be coming and it ended up being Theme Hospital. - [Mark] Well at that time, it was just me and you to start with, it was just, I mean, the team at its maximum size was probably about five or six. So it was pretty small teams, there's no producer, there's no designer, so I was programming, Gary as doing the art and-- - [Gary] And we were kind of making it up as we went along so that process kind of carried on for a while and I think that kind of originally it was a game about a hospital, a game about a theme park was kind of great, you got rides and exciting things and lots of fun just without even having to go outside the box. - [Gary] Try too hard. - [Mark] And then afterwards it was different. We kind of thought about the flow of the game the patient, the diagnosis, and the treatment of patients, but the sticking point was after. In fact, we were on the research back in Gilford, it's right next to the hospital, so we'd often spend out lunchtime walk around Dart U we'd probably get choked out now. - [Gary] Trying to get inspiration, weren't we? - [Mark] Yeah, just walking around the corridors, and just kind of seeing what's in the hospital. We're going to have lunch in the cafeteria and it was, it came to a point where I think you just, you said, "This is it, isn't it. "There's nothing more, it's just "boring corridors and plain walls." - [Gary] They're all very similar, it doesn't matter if it's the US or the UK, I think hospitals share, they always have the same floor tiles. They have these slightly curved floors where obviously they're easy to wash in up corners so the floors slightly curve, they have this kind of shiny, painted up to about waist-high where I think that can be washed down as well. - [Mark] Hosed down. - [Gary] Hosed down. And they have a few machines with little screens on them and they all sort of makeshift beds that seems to be some sort of crash unit near it. And that's it, and we just suddenly thought, Oh my God, how does this compete with things like roller coasters, and water fluids, and all that kind of color? And we got really scared and we also spent about, and this has been said many times, but we spent about a month in different hospitals trying to do some research, trying to find a game out of all that. - [Mark] Integrate on the street. - [Gary] On the street, we went to Brimley and Rolsory, and we just spent time in all these hospitals and we just kind of got so weary. - [Mark] Gary even got circumcised. - [Gary] No, I didn't. We viewed operations, we were invited to go and look around the morgue and we went into business meetings about how one hospital could strategically beat another hospital to people that have been in injuries. And it just sounds like, oh god this is so grim. - [Mark] We were setting up the ambulance. - [Gary] That's right. Do you remember that? - [Mark] Yeah yeah. - [Gary] And then we sort of went for lunch and again in the canteen that looked very much like a real canteen, they have lots of really unhealthy food. And, uh, we just suddenly I think just landed on this idea at the same time to sort of just let's just make it up. Because we actually knew nothing about hospitals, we didn't know how they really worked. - [Danny] Mark and Gary did their game design due diligence and visited hospitals all around the Greater London Area. They were kicked out of an operation for distracting a surgeon once, and almost visited a morgue before losing their nerve. It was these experiences that brought the boys to the conclusion that they were better off distancing themselves from the grim reality of hospitals as much as they could. They knew that the subject matter wasn't really the focus of the gameplay experience. It wasn't like people who played Theme Park all wanted to run Theme Parks, and the same could be true here. Through their experience they understood that the drive of this game came from the problems players would encounter and the ways in which they would solve them. So they didn't have to make a game about running a real hospital, they just had to make a game that was fun and challenging. It was around this time that Bullfrog was acquired by Electronic Arts. And when their new bosses turned up to see what the team was working on, they were, a bit confused. - [Gary] And when they'd come to the studio and have a look at all the games, it's kind of like, a hospital game? No, I don't get it. It's like, oh, think about ER and things, we were trying to jazz it up. It's actually a really popular, exciting show. They'd say, "But this isn't like ER, is it." - [Mark] I guess that's the problem. I think everybody probably would assume science fiction or fantasy-- - [Gary] Or killing or blowing up. - [Mark] Making some sim game around that would be the best possible subject matter, but I think coming up with, if we stay in kind of reality, and relatable subject, but then you twist that into something else is, makes it way more interesting. - [Danny] EA was right. It wasn't really ER. For one, Theme Hospital didn't have any real illnesses. The people in this world suffered from conditions like Slack Tongue, Bloaty Head, Kidney Beans and Third Degree Sideburns. One condition originally called Elvitus had to be changed when Elvis' estate got wind of it. The character art, which did look a lot like Elvis, was slightly changed, and the condition was renamed King Complex. Another legal faux-pas came with the original box-art of Theme Hospital, which carried a red cross. The Red Cross wasn't too happy about that, so they changed it to a green star. The guys were starting to warm up so I figured it was probably about the time to ask Lindsay's questions. First of all, what was with all the doctors that smelled faintly of cabbage? Who wrote this stuff? And why did Theme Hospital have a rat shooting mini game? - [Gary] One thing I think Lionhead and Bullfrog haven't probably promoted enough is the great writers who have actually made us look even, well, made us look way better than we actually are. Because it's actually, it's interesting, there wasn't that many visual illnesses in Theme Hospital, but a lot of people remember the wonderful names and they paint their own pictures. - [Mark] Yeah, and the descriptions of how they're contracted, so. - [Gary] So I think, but the writing was really important to us. - [Mark] There was a guy called James Leech. - [Gary] But James Leech did the original, but James also worked with a guy called Mark Hill throughout, on and off through the Lionhead days, and that was something we wanted to bring, keep that consistency of writing. So, it was probably Mark, probably is, he's really strong. - [Mark] Yeah, if you've got enough, if you've shot enough rats in a level, you could unlock a secret in between levels, you rat shoot. And it was basically just a lot of rats. You had a certain amount of time to kill as many as you can, and if you kind of chain them together, if you've got enough, if you've got a streak as it were, you could level up your weapons. - [Gary] That's right. - [Mark] And they were really difficult, I think the rat was two by one pixels, you know it was some of my best work, and you had to get a headshot. So you literally had to be almost pixel perfect, certainly in the harder levels. - [Gary] It was hard, yeah. - [Mark] And it's weird, things like that used to happen because we didn't have design documents. We didn't have, you know, we weren't scheduled to do, this week we're on this, next week we're on that. So, you know, this is just when developers just start dicking about really. - [Voiceover] Could people please try not to be sick in the corridors. - [Danny] Theme Hospital was a critical and commercial success, but once they were done post-acquisition Bullfrog saw an exodus of developers as Peter Molyneux left to form a new studio, Lionhead. Mark followed his old boss to Lionhead while Gary was part of another group that founded the studio Mucky Foot. There, he worked on the art for Urban Chaos, Startopia, and Blade 2, and left once the studio closed in 2003 whereupon he joined Lionhead to work on The Movies. By this stage the two friends found themselves in lead positions at the company. They shepherded many games through the studio during this time including Black and White, Fable, Kinect Sports, and unreleased projects such as Project Milo and "BC". They worked together at Lionhead for a decade, but as time passed the job became less like the good old days. Microsoft had acquired Lionhead in 2006 and the now 200 person studio had run into financial difficulty. So as the years wore on, the influence of their parent company was having an erosive effect on the team's creativity. Gary found it especially difficult to get his ideas to gain traction, and so he decided to leave. - [Gary] I guess the thing I enjoyed most of the Bullfrog era was definitely Theme Hospital. It just was, because it was a point when I was ready to do more than just the artwork on a game. So I felt I was much more stepping into being a kind of a co-creating role rather than just making things look as pretty as I could. Then, I enjoyed my period with Mucky Foot, which was a company I sort of helped formulate, and we had some great years there. Lionhead, I guess the challenges were always working with Peter on such ambitious ideas because Peter would, I was in a team that wasn't Fable, so my part of that was Peter would throw some incredibly outlandish ideas around and it was kind of my job to get a little group of people together to try and realize that ambition. And it was really exciting, I mean, we literally went from making things on Kinect or things like Milo and Cabige, which was a bit nice for a while, it was just weird and wonderful opportunities to try and make a difference and do something strange and interesting, so I enjoyed that, too. - [Danny] By the time Mark's tenure was coming to a close, Peter Molyneux had long left the company and Mark was creative director of Lionhead. His final act at the studio was to help get Fable: Anniversary out the door, and it was then that he stepped away from a job where he'd spent most of his adult life. - [Mark] Yeah, I mean, I was there from the beginning, and my tenure was 15 to 16 years. - [Gary] It was 16 nearly, I think. - [Mark] Yeah, I left in the beginning of 2013. But it was a long and anxious period that I was kind of working through. I mean things had changed, obviously Peter had gone, and the kind of vision for Lionhead was, well, a vision for the Europe Microsoft was free to play console stuff and it wasn't really, I wasn't really enjoying it anymore. I think that's the best thing to say. You know, I kind of, if I was going to do it again, I wanted to fall back in love with making games and-- - [Gary] You're quite an emotional person, if you don't like something, you let people know about it. - [Mark] And I sulk about it. - [Danny] Mark and Gary were free agents and worked odd jobs here and there for old friends. They enjoyed the easier workload after years of grind at the top of one of the UK's largest developers. Perhaps it was then, given the benefit of hindsight, that the two remembered just how much fun they had had working on those old games together. So it was then, one evening, when Mark was picking up pizza, Gary pitched him an idea about starting a small, independent studio, and working on games sort of like they used to, in a cramped old flat stuck above a stereo shop and a chain-smoking old lady. - [Gary] Yeah, I kind of didn't think. I thought, well who'd be interested in, you know, revisiting-- - [Mark] Two old farts you know, making old games, who's interested in it? And I think that was kind of-- - [Gary] We had to go on a journey of discovery. And actually it was when we started sort of talking to some people when we were still trying to find a partner to make this, we certainly realized there was a lot of interest. - [Mark] We did a tour, didn't we? - [Gary] We did a tour, we sort of went on the roads, and met up with a bunch of either, we were looking to either sell publish, initially, maybe do a kickstarter, or partner with a small publisher. We didn't know, you know, who would go for this. So we just sort of started looking into it. And we just literally got in the car, booked into a sort of cheap hotel, motel-type places, and just knocked on doors and that's how we started. Which was great fun because this was a couple of 50 year old guys, basically in a band back together again. - [Mark] And going on tour, so we just, our wives probably thought, look at them, they're pathetic. What do they think right now? - [Danny] Mark and Gary thought there might still be a thirst for their old sim games. The classic Bullfrog titles were still selling well over on GOG and new games like Prison Architect and City Skylines were creating a whole new generation of fans. They had considered crowdfunding the project at one point, but they were warned away by some of the developers they talked to during their road-trip. So, they wrote a pitch for a new hospital game that would evolve the ideas of a game they had made almost two decades earlier. They knew they needed financial help. The guys were experienced and understood the type of game they wanted to create would require more money and time than they personally had. They shot the pitch around to publishers, and while some were receptive, there was one in particular that seemed very keen: SEGA. They negotiated terms with SEGA from the end of 2015 right up to the summer of 2016. And as it happens, right as the deal was signed, news broke that Microsoft would be closing Lionhead Studios. So, somewhat ahead of schedule, Gary and Mark rushed to hire their new team. - [Gary] We kind of imagined we'd take them over a period of time, but Lionhead closed, and it was suddenly these brilliant people were out of work. - [Mark] Tons of brilliant people. - [Gary] And they weren't around for long. - [Mark] No, we were going to lose them. - [Gary] Companies were coming to Gilford doing presentations just going, "You should come work for us." And we, you know, we had to kind of promise-- - [Mark] That was a risky thing to do. Because obviously we had to sort of lay out a huge amount of our expenditure earlier than we would ordinarily do it, but the point thing is we made a huge advancement in the development in the game and also this team, I wouldn't swap them for the world. They're amazing bunch of people. - [Gary] Some of them have worked with us for over twenty years. But Alan, who's sat behind Mark right now, I think he was your best mate at school, wasn't he? - [Mark] Pretty much. I mean Pram, Pram reminds me of Chris. Pram literally knocked on the door, and one of the guys we've worked with for over twenty years, I hired him out of college. And now he's absolutely integral to this team. So that's the kind of things we like to do. It's to build those relationships. - [Danny] Mark and Gary founded Two Point Studios, and over the coming years built a team of 16 people to help make this game. Some were old friends and colleagues, others new kids on the block. Their game was going to be called Two Point Hospital. The spiritual successor to a Bullfrog classic. But it wouldn't be enough to simply re-make an old game. For one, Theme Hospital was a 2D game. When Edge Magazine came to visit the studio in the mid 90's, they barely took notice of it, as gamers were far more interested in 3D screenshots of games like Dungeon Keeper. But time would prove to be kinder to Theme Hospital. While those early 3D games aged quickly as 3D technology improved, 2D games have a sort of timeless, inviting quality to them. Plus, to create these sophisticated sandbox they were aiming for, Two Point Hospital would have to be in 3D. - [Gary] We knew how Theme Hospital had done better over 20 years and some of it's contemporary. - [Mark] So we needed to come up with a style which incorporated something that felt like it was fresh and up-to-date, but we felt if the game does have legs, if people do love this game and we can keep it around for long enough, won't look out of sorts in two, three, four years time. So, we went for something quite organic feeling, it doesn't feel like it's rendered, it feels more like it's made of clay or plasticine, and it feels drawn rather than engineered, - [Gary] And I think also that that art style back then was, with was certainly Theme Park and Theme Hospital had, we had quite a big proportion of female players, which back then was certainly unheard of for our types of games. Obviously something like the sims, which came later, it just blew their market wide open. But I think we didn't have an art style that was-- - [Mark] Exact not footing. - [Gary] Yeah, it kind of, it was accessible, I'm not going to be patronizing and suggest that, you know, we made something that was appealing to girls, Because I wouldn't even have a clue how that would, you know-- - [Mark] I think it felt accessible, it felt like it wasn't aimed at any particular type of gamer. - [Gary] Because you're looking at the game not from a fixed angle, you could be above or sort of, like, low down, you could kind of twist the camera. So a lot of these kind of considerations were kind of worked through and then, - [Mark] And then the US, is it Where's Wilbur in the US? Where's Wally? - [Danny] Oh yeah, Waldo they say over here. - [Gary] Waldo, that's it. And we, you know, to make something readable when you've got so much on screen, and I don't know if you need a screenshot with some of the later levels where you've got absolutely vast marks with hundreds of people on screen. To get a clean read and not get it to look noisy and kind of, I don't know, slightly put you on edge because everything's moving and they've been shimmering because everything's trying to fight for your attention was a real consideration for us. In fact, I've seen some footage that's just gone out last night, and the guy's captured all his footage top down. - [Danny] Right. - [Gary] Imagine being a designer or an artist trying to design a game that looks good from anything possible conceivable angle. It's really difficult. - [Danny] Theme Hospital was accessible, not just with both men and women, but with gamers and non-gamers, and young and old too. It was one of those games that was effortless to pick up. But after the first few missions, Theme Hospital's rough edges began to show. First of all the game got rather hard really quickly. And secondly, there just wasn't any interesting progression. Each level in Theme Hospital was almost identical to the previous one. So to combat this, the team created a world where each hospital takes places in a unique region with its own biome and its own unique needs. - [Gary] Because the regions are very different, the people in that area are very different, some are rich, some are poor regions, and some of the challenges are different. In some cases, you may be running a hospital that's actually funded rather than you get paid for curing people from the individuals, they don't pay, you just get a budget at the beginning of the level. And that just makes the plagues spin completely different, so we wanted to kind of make it stay fresh as much as possible. And also give people the opportunity to circle back and go back and do things that they probably struggled earlier on and keep that fresh by putting new challenges in there. - [Mark] And you have the ability to progress through the county reasonably easy. But if you really want to max out the game, you can kind of return to earlier hospitals, you can unlock things in later levels, you can do research, maybe unlock certain qualifications, come back to one of the earlier hospitals and train the staff in those things, upgrade those machines. - [Gary] So the game doesn't have that pinch point, which the original game had where it just got too hard for me, I think I got to about level seven and would find it a real struggle. And we didn't want to do that again. - [Danny] When I ask the guys about the features that excite them most, there's one that immediately stands out. Two Point Hospital features characters with a variety of personality traits that are not only affected by the world around them, but also by the people around them. They want you to care a lot more about your employees in this game, but more than that, this system has the ability to create wonderful emergent moments as doctors and patients clash with both each other, and the rules of the world. M This is what's real new cutting edge stuff is we've got this, the brains the little people now, is they've got these traits and of course they also have the conditions they're under combined to make quite unique animation blends, which means they do things, they react almost uniquely. It doesn't feel like it's pre-canned. You see somebody walk up to somebody and they'll respond completely different to the next person based on how those two people feel about each other. - [Danny] Could you give an example? Like is it, if two doctors don't like each other, or if they have a tough patient, or how does that sort of manifest? - [Gary] It's just patient is a good example, I mean, they as well as the personality traits, the things that are going on, if doctors has just treated a patient and they die, that has an effect on their happiness, they go on a break to the staff room, and that could end up in an argument with another doctor, and then just that argument could just-- - [Mark] And it's not all emotional, sometimes it's just that the habitual things, like you have a fantastic doctor who may just never wash his hands when he goes to the toilet. - [Gary] Right, now that has an impact on the game. It's not just funny, it actually has an impact and in fact, there was somebody who was showing the game to in San Francisco the other week, and this person has an amazing hospital, doing really well, but when you put the filter on to look at hygiene, the hospital is really clean, but all the staff are really filthy, and I mean you couldn't work it out, and she'd built this massive facility with a toilet which only had two cubicles and she put no sinks in it and no hand dryers and put no sanitizer units anywhere in the hospital. So all these doctors were working on all these patients, filthy. And we put this kind of filter over it and showed her all the instants of filth trails in the game, and Mark just went, I can see your problem. He said, "Do you ever wash your hands "when you go to the toilet?" And this girl was just so embarrassed and immediately went and put this bathroom, a sink into the bathroom, to the toilet. And all the staff just ran to cure, to wash their hands, it's that stuff. - [Mark] Everything in the game affects something else so the people, the machines, the way and the sick, and everything in your world is important. - [Gary] If you have a brilliant surgeon but he's an angry man or woman, right, your job is to try and work out how to diffuse that situation to get them to do even better. And that's kind of the fun depth that the game has. Maybe this person just needs more caffeine in their life. Maybe this person needs more weird executive toys in the office. Those kind of things, it's just you getting that extra ten percent out of their performance which is the real depth I think this game supports. - [Danny] As Gary just said in Two Point Hospital you can have an angry surgeon, man or woman. Another evolution from games past that shows not only just how far games have come in terms of representation, but also in terms of technology. If there's one thing I keep hearing when I interview designers today, it's that technology provides, it provides answers. Many design problems that used to exist in the past have been rendered moot by the advancement of technology. And Two Point's character variety is a perfect example of this. The original Theme Hospital had four main character types: A nurse who was a women, a doctor who was a man, a receptionist who was a woman, and a janitor who was a dusty-looking old man. So I asked Mike and Gary, why? - [Mark] It covered respective times people have said that we made a sexist game, but we had to make the game run in four megabytes. I mean, it was a time and memory, and it wasn't a question of, like, well doctors are just men and nurses are just women, it was just a question of like, we had to make a call with it, and I think you had new, you had different heads, but it was pretty much the same body, different jackets and stuff, and we couldn't have made-- - [Gary] I was really keen on skin tone was important. I did not want to have a particular skin tone, but we just did not have the time or the memory, mainly the memory. - [Mark] The character variation was important to us back then, and it was only 21 years ago but you very rarely got very different clothing variations and we did manage to get an element of that in. But the basic model of the man and the woman, that was the huge memory part of this. You know, so rightly or wrongly, I could have made a male nurse and a female doctor, I could have made a young janitor, I could have made a male reception administration staff. All of those things are absolutely true. You know, 20 odd years down the line it just seems critically incorrect but it wasn't our intention, I'd like to think we're quite right on. But the decision was made that the doctors were male and the nurses were female, rightly or wrongly, it was a call I made but I certainly didn't mean the offend anybody. - [Danny] But it sounds like that's something that's been changed for Two Point? - [Mark] Totally. - [Gary] Absolutely. I mean, you know, that would have, that's absolutely goes without saying, he's not trying to correct anything, it's just that we had no choice back then to make a decision, rightly or wrongly, but it was just never going to be a situation. I mean, we've got so many more other types now of staff anyway, and what they do is very different. I mean, and thank God our initiative stuff in this game do all sorts of things, they're not just manning, I mean the little bit of footage you've probably seen, it may look like, oh look, there's somebody on the reception desk again. They do all sorts of different roles. - [Mark] Yeah so we've got a marketing department which you open up later in the game, so the assistants can work, if they have the qualification, they can work in marketing, - [Gary] They're kind of civil-servant-y type people, aren't they. They do a cross of different things, but the other things is we've taken a variation to a ridiculous level now. You can have hundreds of people, in fact, somebody took a fantastic screenshot within the studio, it's on our Twitter feed, and it's just about three hundred people just jammed into section and no two, they're all completely different characters. We've got this amazing modular system which puts on things such as steam goggles if it wants to, you know, boots, every component can be different and it just randomly generates them. So you really are lucky if you see two characters that look vaguely similar. Certainly more similar people in Yorkshire than there are in our game. - [Danny] What excites me most about Two Point Hospital isn't replaying a style of game that I enjoyed in my youth, it's that this game seems to be free of the technological restrictions of its predecessor. It's full of neat little features like teaching janitors to vacuum up gDannys. So even that old dog has a new trick. The guys are busy finalizing the game so I didn't want to take too much more of their time. But before they left, I had to ask them the most important question: What new illnesses could we look forward to treating in Two Point Hospital? - [Mark] Turtle Head is an affliction where the head shrinks down to a very small and it has to be a, I'm only saying that because I know it's on our website. - [Gary] There's another one where the guy's foot is like a camel's foot and it's called Camel Toe and that has to be, that's not in there, it's just hardly been-- - [Mark] That was one of my favorites ones. I thought you liked it. - [Gary] Mark, he's trying to get that in the game. I have to say as well-- - [Mark] I say we've talked about it now in the press, so we have to put it in. - [Danny] Lads, you sound like you're having a great laugh. This sounds like a very professionally exciting period in your lives. Is that fair to say? - [Mark] I mean, 21 years ago, releasing Theme Hospital, that was an amazing time. We had such good time, and just kind of starting a studio and going "Wouldn't it be cool to be able to "recapture some of that kind of--" - [Gary] Actually we started our families. I mean, we both got married, you might have been before me. Side having your family at the beginning, I think-- - [Mark] Yeah, I hear you, Sam was born just as we started. - [Gary] There's a story: Sam actually worked with us here. Sam's Mark's firstborn, was born right at the beginning. - [Mark] Pretty much as we started. - [Gary] As we started, and he's one of the engineers and creatives on this, it's very odd, it's very strange, but that's what makes it fun, right, because we got to a stage in our careers where we just want to actually enjoy coming into work, not have to be some, the problem with games is you get promoted, that's the problem with games. And when you get promoted, you stop making games. You start becoming that person nobody likes. You have to get a game done, and it has to be done like this, and nobody likes people telling people what to do. So we've basically set up this company so nobody, we don't have to tell people what to do and no one tells us what to do and yeah, it's great fun coming into work everyday. I don't think we've had one day where I haven't felt this is the best thing I've done in my life. - [Danny] Two Point Hospital should be available to purchase on PC, Mac, and Linux around the time you hear this podcast. You can learn more about the game at twopointhospital.com. If you're interested in playing the original Theme Hospital and you should be, it's really good, it's available on GOG.com. If fact, if you're a fan of GOG, you should check out our documentary on the company and their game preservation efforts over on our YouTube channel: YouTube.com/Noclipvideo. I'd also like to recommend a patch for that game: Corsix TH. It's a tremendous community-created wrapper that updates the GOG version of Theme Hospital to work with modern resolutions with sharper graphics and updated menus. A wonderful testament to the fan passion that has surrounded this game for 19 years. As ever thanks to our Patrons for supporting our work. You can support our documentaries, this podcast, and more by joining up at Patreon.com/Noclip. You'll also get access to this podcast early via a special RSS feed. Thanks so much to Gary and Mark for their time, Lauran Carter over at SEGA for setting the whole thing up, and my wonderful wife for chatting to me about one of our favorite games. Sorry for the delay in getting this episode number two out. It was supposed to be up about six weeks ago, But then my baby girl decided to come a couple of weeks early. So we've been rather busy here in the O'Dwyer household. We have a bunch of fun podcasts planned for between now and the end of the year, so of course, keep this feed running. Until then, play some games. We'll talk again soon.

The Q - 372 -AM I CRAZY

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 27, 2018 75:32

We setup the round table again and we brought back Producer Bobby to hang out. But with him came friend of the show, Alex Elias, from AE Consulting Solutions as well as Jonathan May to sit down and discuss everything going on. First up Mark has a conundrum to figure out. Is he CRAZY or is he being logical. Mark and his wife have a broken dryer and the need to wash and dry clothes weekly. Mark discusses bringing up the need to go to a Laundromat which his wife is not keen on. So Mark explains his theories to the crew and then asks, AM I CRAZY? Well is he....listen and find out the verdict Also, Bobby Brings up something that he saw at LaGuardia airport in NY. A sectioned off desk and piece of ground designed for Free Speech. It's a Free Speech zone. Bobby was amazed and this makes Mark think of pop-up Rage rooms that he has seen online. This get Alex going and excited about a new business venture. But what about that Free Speech zone...can you say Bomb in it? What would happen? The gentlemen discuss. Finally Mark brings up a new game he wants to play called Top 5. Yo name off the Top 5 of yours without telling anyone the topic...then the people are supposed to guess what your list refers to. An amazing idea that just falls apart but could be brought back in a more permanent way down the road.

The Q - 368 - Learning From History

C3 Podcast: Active Shooter Incident Management

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 30, 2018 67:11

Mark Bland and Jonathan May saddle up for an amazing ride and one hell of a show. First up, Mark has had Jonathan on the show many times but never had a chance to really get to know him a little better. So Mark takes it upon himself for an impromptu interview of J-dog and finding out about his family and upbringing. Next Michael Cohen decided to release the Trump Tapes to CNN and the entire world is ablaze with the revelation that Trump tried paying off MORE THAN ONE women to have sex with him. As damning as liberals want this to be, it's not illegal for Trump to be a horrible husband (3 times now). Honestly its quite pathetic to know that either his hot wives are such bores that he has to find other women....OR....Trump is such a crappy person that he can't tell anyone including his own wives the truth either. Mark then gets into a discussion about the history of Presidents that were assassinated and how watching those situations go down you can learn from history. Right now, Trump is nailing all the things that historically led down this crazy path to a certain ending. Nobody on the Q or around the world is wishing for it, but could it happen today? The guys discuss. Plus a little on the new Sacha Baron Cohen tv show and George Washington and probably how his life as President went.

Clay Jordan from Speakeasy Ales and Lagers

Brew Ha Ha Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 19, 2018 17:38

Clay Jordan from Speakeasy Ales and Lagers is our guest today on Brew Ha Ha with Steve Jaxon, Mark Carpenter and Herlinda Heras. Herlinda asks Clay Jordan about the business side, and recent news, including their acquisition by a new local entrepreneur. He had to create a parent holding company. So technically they are Hunter’s Point Brewery, after the neighborhood that they occupy in San Francisco. It’s the same beer. They were not bought out by another brewery and the public facing brand is still the same. (The restaurant Speakeasy in Petaluma is not related them, they only share the name.) Clay tells how their main brands are still being brewed, such as Big Daddy and Prohibition Ale, with no changes, and they are also adding new ones. Mark remembers that Big Daddy won a Gold Medal at the GABF one year. Herlinda says that it is a little known fact that she competed for nine years at the Stumptown Brewery rib cookoff. Speakeasy was always next to her with their BBQ and Beer team. They will have an anniversary party for the 21st anniversary. They bring in food trucks Thursday through Sunday. But for the party there will be a bunch of them and some live music too. It will be on August 25, $5 admission, with some VIP tickets available with nice perks. The Speakeasy Ales and Lagers website URL is “good beer” dot com. Mark Carpenter tells about meeting some pilots and they talked about flying and beer. They were flying into the area and they met for lunch today. He took them to visit some brewers, Henhouse and Seismic. They had a great reception tasted some fabulous beers. They tasted a beer called Alluvium which is soon coming out in cans. Herlinda notes that it is made with local malt, too. Mark says that the Seismic brewery is very well built. Their owner said he wanted a brew house big enough where they don’t have to run around the clock. This is what Fritz Maytag, Mark’s old boss, at Anchor Brewing, also said. So Mark was impressed with this. Mark notes that it takes way more than money to be successful, and Seismic is doing a fabulous job. They also visited Henhouse and tasted Oyster Stout beer. They gave him an IPA to bring in today. Mark mentions he got a growler of Alluvium from Seismic. Herlinda asks what Mark drank when he visited Russian River. He drank a beer called Dribble Belt. This is a part of the hopyard equipment, a belt that runs under the hop picking machine that picks up some of the hop cones that fall off.

Episode 03: Triage and Transport

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 2, 2018 19:43

Episode 03: Triage and Transport Discussion of the Triage and Transport Group Supervisor positions in Active Shooter Incident Management (ASIM) Bill Godfrey: Hello again, everybody. Bill Godfrey from C3 Pathways, here with a number of the instructors to talk about triage and transport and the challenges of integrating our medical roles in an active shooter event. Today I've got with me retired fire chief Tom Billington, both fire chief and paramedic. Another retired fire chief, Mark Rhame, also a paramedic. And not to be outdone, a third retired fire chief, Joe Ferrara, also a paramedic. Guys, thanks for taking the time to sit down and talk about this today. So just to kind of set the stage for us, when we talk about, in typical EMS, when you talk about mass casualty incidents, we always hear them throw out triage, treatment, and transport. It's kind of the three classic things that we talk about. But in an active shooter event, it's a little different. The triage officer, normally is ... The bus rolls over on the interstate, triage is walking among the bodies and doing their thing. But in an active shooter event, it's not safe to do that. But the job still has to be done. So Mark, can you open up by kind of talking a little bit about what's different about triage in an active shooter event? And how do we do the integration with law enforcement to set that up and get it rolling? Mark Rhame: In a traditional sense, the triage activity, or the triage person as you said, is walking amongst the individuals who are injured and trying to determine who is the most critically injured and which patient's gonna go first to the hospital, which patient's gonna get treated first. In the sense of a active shooter event, as you stated, that triage person, the person who's in that position, cannot go into that environment, because it may be still hot in the very beginning. It becomes warm when we take down the shooter or we put the shooter in a place where we can actually get to our patients safely with our rescue task force. But that triage officer is going to make and determine basically from a distance, utilizing rescue task force and standing right next to the tactical officer who has contact teams inside whose relaying information back to him or her about what kind of patients and how many patients and how severe they are so they can come up with their tactical considerations. For the triage officer in this environment, they're going to stand up rescue task force. And the rescue task force are a combination of our fire EMS people and law enforcement at a security envelope for that team to go in there and start counting our patients, start doing some very quick treatment on those patients, getting them to a location where they're all the patients are in one place, which we call our casualty collection point, determining the quickest route out of that location to an ambulance exchange point so we can load them up into the ambulances and move them off that scene, working hand in hand with our transportation officer who will be standing next to us. One of the considerations we have to have, though, is a triage person who's in that position, is they have to go down to a safe environment where that tactical officer is. So there is a consideration for that triage officer working with our medical branch to say, "Is it safe for me to send my people into that location? Is it safe for me to send my triage person and my transport officer down to that location so they can be standing next to each other talking face to face, coming up with their strategy and tactics?" So once that area is determined to be safe for them to go to that area -- it's a warm zone, so there's still some consideration of a threat -- but they can go down to that location. They cohabitate with them. At that point in time, they can stand up their rescue task force and get them inside and start working on these patients. Bill Godfrey: Fantastic. Joe, we were talking on another podcast with the law enforcement guys who really, really were talking about the importance of co-locating triage and transport with the tactical group supervisor to be able to work the problem very directly. Can you talk about, from the fire EMS perspective, from the medical perspective, why is it so important to put the triage and transport supervisors forward with the tactical group supervisor? Why can't they just take it over and run it and do what they gotta do? Why is that co-location location so important? Joe Ferrara: Well, I think if we look into some of the common problems that occur on scenes from an incident management perspective, it's always communication. Communication always seems to be the number one gap. So in one scenario, we could take our triage and transport group supervisors, and they could be in a fire command post, and they can be directing the rescue task force and directing the ambulances, but yet the gap there is they're not talking to tactical. Tactical has the operational picture of the scene. Tactical knows where the boundaries of the hot zone is. Tactical knows about the security threats occurring. Tactical knows when it's safe to start the rescue operation. So if we're gonna create a gap by not co-locating, by forcing triage and transport to pick up a phone, or worse yet, have a cross-patch radio channel that may or may not work ... Because typically, fire and EMS are not on the same radio system as police. So why not, when the medical branch is stood up, and the medical branch sends triage and transport group supervisors as a command function, as an ICS function, downrange, send them to the tactical folks? The tactical guy, who was maybe that fifth man. I know we talked about it in a past podcast. It's not the counted fifth man. It could be the fifth, sixth, seventh. Whoever that law enforcement person is that's running the tactical operation, who better to have the folks in triage and transport that are gonna be moving patients and getting them out of scene as expeditiously as possible, why not have them with the law enforcement supervisor? By doing that, those triage folks will have no question about whether it's safe to put an RTF in with a security bubble. The transport group supervisor will have no question about where the ambulance exchange points need to be, because getting that information directly from the person that has the operational picture, the tactical group supervisor. Bill Godfrey: So Tom, Joe, obviously, talking very passionately about a lot of the challenges in understanding the security side of this thing, which, of course, for fire and EMS folks, that's not our area of expertise. That's not normal for us. But being there with tactical to get that, can you talk a little bit about some of the difficulties or the challenges in getting the patients transported? I mean, okay ... the law enforcement's neutralized the threat. The rescue task forces have moved downrange. They've got contact with the patient. We're ready to get the patients out of there. What are some of the challenges that are faced on the transport side in making that happen in a timely fashion? Tom Billington: Well, one of the things we discuss is neutralizing the threat, which is done. So now we're fighting the clock. And as a transport group supervisor, you are that final cog in the wheel to get these patients to the correct facilities as soon as possible. And so it's really important that the transport group supervisor have situational awareness. They should know where the hospitals are located, the best routes, how many patients each hospital can take. And this has to be done rapidly. Again, we're fighting the clock. We have to get these injured people to a hospital as soon as possible and to get them treated. Again, by being located with the other groups, you have a better chance of understanding the clarity of what's going to happen, where you want to send them. And it's really a important task. Bill Godfrey: Tom, walk me through the process of how the rescue task force who has the patients picks a spot to hand them off to the ambulances. Walk me through how that happens and what that looks like. Tom Billington: Okay, when the rescue task forces are ready for the ambulances, the first thing they need to do is establish an ambulance exchange point. It has to be a location close to their casualty collection point. It has to be easy access. And obviously, there needs to be security. So once they have identified a location close to the casualty collection point that is outside that the ambulances can come and leave freely, they need to make sure they have a security bubble, and set up the ambulance exchange point. When all of this is completed, only then do we bring the ambulances in. And of course, we bring them in one at a time with security, load the patient. This is a very important point. When we load the patient, we're not sitting there treating the patient anymore. We do not want to be sitting target, as you may call it. We want to get the person moved and get on the way to the hospital. So it's a very important part. Remember, security's important. Remember, don't box up your ambulances one at a time, and it should go pretty good after that. Bill Godfrey: So mark, talk a little bit about the challenges that are faced realistically. The triage and transport group supervisors, they're physically co-located, maybe at the trunk of a car. Maybe they're working off a desk somewhere, or they're just standing in a parking lot, but they're working with tactical, and you've got these three people that are putting their heads together, trying to kind of coordinate that ballet. Talk a little bit about what are some of the typical challenges you see and maybe some of the ways to overcome those challenges. Mark Rhame: Well, probably one of the biggest things is they've got to trust the teams that are inside. The tactical officer along with the triage and transport have eyes inside of the building. They are with the patients. They have identified a casualty collection point, and they are giving a recommendation for an ambulance exchange point. Those individuals who are outside, who are running that inner perimeter, that warm zone that was a hot zone previously, being the tactical officer, that triage person and that transport person, they have to trust the people inside to give them a good recommendation of a good pathway from that place that they're bringing their patients to, that casualty collection point, to the outside as an ambulance exchange point. Simply standing outside and looking at a map doesn't always work. We can all look at maps, and especially if you get a multi-story structure, and think we can determine the quickest route from inside the structure to the outside where the ambulances are waiting to take the patients to the hospital. But truly, you've got to trust the people inside who have physically walked it and who have an understanding of where the quickest methodology or the quickest path to get them out. You've got to trust them to make a good decision, a good recommendation. Now, you have every right as a triage officer, or a tactical officer, to overrule that, because you're seeing the bigger picture. You own that inner perimeter. You may see other threats they're not seeing, or other considerations. But really, you've got to trust those people inside to given you good intel, good patient counts, and a recommendation of the quickest methodology of getting those patients off the scene. Bill Godfrey: So, Joe, I'm gonna put you on the spot with this one. Why not just drag or shuttle the patients out of the hot and warm zone back to some cold zone area where you can lay them out, really do a good assessment on them, treat them if you need to and then load them in more of a traditional transport area where you've got a line of ambulances? Why not do it that way? Joe Ferrara: Well Bill, that's certainly a good perspective, and that's traditionally the way we've done it in EMS. We've set up those treatment, transport, and triage areas. We've set up the tarps and we start moving patients out from there. However, as we've stressed in active shooter events and learned lessons from the military, when people are shot ... time. Time is the killer. So the longer that we let these people sit on scene, then the less their chance of survival. The only thing that is gonna save these people is rapid movement, and rapid transport to an appropriate facility. So we have our choice here. We co-locate with tactical. We organize a rescue task forces downrange. We push them to do indirect threat care to get the patient briefly stabilized, and we move them directly to ambulances. So if we're gonna move once from a casualty collection point to the back of an ambulance, why not make it the shortest move? And that shortest move is from inside the CCP to outside in the ambulance exchange point. Rather than moving them inside the CCP, over to the cold zone, and now we're gonna re-triage them and retreat them and load them back into ambulances and cause another delay. So because of that killer of time, the best thing to do here is to get those patients directly in the AEP, directly in the ambulance and on their way to the appropriate facility. Let's cut out the other steps that are killing our patients. Bill Godfrey: Good points. Good points. Tom, from your perspective ... I know you've done a lot of training on the RTF side, and on the transport side and trying to help people integrate that ballet, I'm gonna call it ... What are some of the challenges you see? Where do people slip up? What are the common mistakes that you see in that process of trying to get into the patients quickly, do whatever emergent ... as Joe said, emergent indirect care you need to, and then get on an ambulance and get out of Dodge? What's the common mistakes you're seeing? Tom Billington: Well, the first is hesitation. You need to make sure that, when you're on a RTF, a rescue task force, that you're comfortable, that the law enforcement officers are going to protect your life, and the law enforcement officers are comfortable, that you're going to listen to them for safety reasons. So the first thing is, don't hesitate. You need to move in as a team and be ... Rapidly assess these folks. Start treating them as quickly as possible. On the transport side, some of the tangles we get into, I'll give you an example, is we think a lot about helicopters. Transport isn't only by ambulance, it can be by helicopter. But a problem with that is as a transport officer, again, situation awareness should let you be able to decide is it quicker to put them in the back of an ambulance and drive to them the hospital? Or is it quicker to drive an ambulance to a landing zone, transport the patient to a helicopter? The helicopter crew has their procedures that they have to do before they take off. We may even be adding time by using that helicopter. So it's just another issue you have to weigh out. Again, we're fighting the clock, so the quickest way is always the best. Bill Godfrey: Mark, what about your perspective? What are the common mistakes that you see? Mark Rhame: Well, Tom hit a very good on there in regard to delays that we artificially create. The delays that aren't driven by the shooter, who has been taken down, secured. The delays of believing that you can't enter a building after you've secured that area, even though the threat still may be within that hot, warm zone. Those delays are what's killing these patients. And we've got to come to the conclusion, the reality, that we're creating a lot of these problems ourselves. We can have the solution right in front of us with proper training, with practice, with integrating our response, but we've got to eliminate these delays by trusting our judgment on these issues. There is nothing wrong with entering a structure where you still have a threat in it, so long as you've held that threat at bay, you've placed that threat somewhere that it's not gonna harm anyone else. That it's law enforcement it's held that person in place. And then you can send in your rescue task force, get those people off the scene, even though you haven't taken down the threat. So we can't get into this mode where we're gonna back up a half a mile or a mile and wait for the scene to be totally secure and become cold, because those patients are gonna die right in front of us. We've got to get into that environment where delays are killing these people, and we've got to be a little bit more aggressive. Bill Godfrey: Joe, if you were giving advice to a new, young paramedic, or a young company officer, who is gonna have to play the triage or transport role, what's the one piece of advice? In fact, I'll pass this question to each of you guys. What's the one piece of advice that you would give a young medic or a young company officer who's gonna have to play either the triage or the transport roles in an active shooter event? What's the one piece of advice you'd give them? Joe Ferrara: Don't waste time. One of the biggest problems that I always saw as a supervisor on the scene, as a company officer, was we do a great job getting the patient extricated, and suddenly, we get them in the back of the ambulance and we think some magic is gonna happen in there and the patient is gonna be cured. Get in the truck. When the patient is loaded, get that driver up front and let's move to the hospital. Trauma patients will benefit from surgery, not from paramedic intervention. So don't waste the patient's time. It's way too valuable. Bill Godfrey: Tom, how about you? One piece of advice you'd give to the young paramedic or company officer? Tom Billington: He or she must trust the people that are in those positions, that are in the RTF. Trust them. The only time you want to override a decision is if it is a danger to health. If there's a threat they don't know about. But other than that, you have to let these people do their jobs. Give them the tools they need. Support them, and trust that they are making the right decisions. And overall, you should have a better outcome. Bill Godfrey: And Mark, you? Mark Rhame: Get organized. I'll give you an example. If you are placed in the position of transport, you need to find out what hospitals are able to take what type of patients right up front. You cannot wait until the patients are starting to be dragged out, placed in the back of an ambulance, and then calling dispatch and asking hospitals what patients they can take. You've gotta be way ahead of the curve on this issue and get organization very, very quickly. Get that information that's necessary for you to be successful in getting those patients off the scene as quick as possible. Bill Godfrey: Great stuff. Great stuff. Well, that's our time today, chiefs. I want to say thank you guys for sitting down and taking the time to talk about this. I enjoyed it. Look forward to doing some more of these in the future. Original Source: https://www.c3pathways.com/podcast/triage-and-transport

time trust talk walk trauma guys transport tactical ems c3 rapidly ccp triage as i'm active shooter ics aep rtf today i've so mark incident management original source bill godfrey c3 pathways

FTWDTT 043 – No One's Gone (S4E8)

The Walking Dead Talk Through

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 18, 2018 78:41

Talking Through No One’s Gone!!! Hey Survivors! WOW! What an episode. It sent shockwaves throughout the Walking Dead universe. Brian, as you may know, is in the process of moving to Florida and we thought he could join us for the finale, but was unable to. So we will have a special episode during the break where we can get all of his insights about this heart-wrenching episode. So Mark and I, with our viewers feedback, pop in a tape in Althea’s camera and record our thoughts about the Past, Present, and Future of Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 Episode 8, No One’s Gone. Ratings were up… No One’s Gone got a 0.73 in the 18-49 demographic, with 2.320 million viewers. That’s up from last week‘s 0.60 and 1.971 million viewers. Don’t Forget the Mid-Season Return of Episode 9 is August 12th, so the deadline is… Please leave your feedback by 6 PM Eastern/5 PM Central on Tuesday, August 14, 2018. We will be discussing the Season 4b premiere of Fear the Walking Dead Episode 9. Other Fun Stuff Completely Unrelated to No One’s Gone! If you want to help pay for the editing of this and other podcasts, I mentioned how you can donate credits to my Auphonic account, which I use to make these episodes sound so good! That link is https://auphonic.com/donate_credits?user=bmeloche. Please remember to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Subscribing to us helps us move up in the rankings, so it’ll help us out tremendously! You’ll also get new episodes when they’re released. And while you're in there, leave us a rating or review! It only takes a few minutes and it also helps us out! apple podcasts

FTWDTT 043 – No One’s Gone (S4E8)

Talk Through Media All-Inclusive Feed

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 17, 2018 78:41

Talking Through No One’s Gone!!! Hey Survivors! WOW! What an episode. It sent shockwaves throughout the Walking Dead universe. Brian, as you may know, is in the process of moving to Florida and we thought he could join us for the finale, but was unable to. So we will have a special episode during the break where we can get all of his insights about this heart-wrenching episode. So Mark and I, with our viewers feedback, pop in a tape in Althea’s camera and record our thoughts about the Past, Present, and Future of Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 Episode 8, No One’s Gone. Ratings were up… No One’s Gone got a 0.73 in the 18-49 demographic, with 2.320 million viewers. That’s up from last week‘s 0.60 and 1.971 million viewers. Don’t Forget the Mid-Season Return of Episode 9 is August 12th, so the deadline is… Please leave your feedback by 6 PM Eastern/5 PM Central on Tuesday, August 14, 2018. We will be discussing the Season 4b premiere of Fear the Walking Dead Episode 9. Other Fun Stuff Completely Unrelated to No One’s Gone! If you want to help pay for the editing of this and other podcasts, I mentioned how you can donate credits to my Auphonic account, which I use to make these episodes sound so good! That link is https://auphonic.com/donate_credits?user=bmeloche. Please remember to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Subscribing to us helps us move up in the rankings, so it’ll help us out tremendously! You’ll also get new episodes when they’re released. And while you’re in there, leave us a rating or review! It only takes a few minutes and it also helps us out! apple podcasts

FTWDTT 043 – No One’s Gone (S4E8)

Fear the Walking Dead Talk Through

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 17, 2018 78:41

Talking Through No One’s Gone!!! Hey Survivors! WOW! What an episode. It sent shockwaves throughout the Walking Dead universe. Brian, as you may know, is in the process of moving to Florida and we thought he could join us for the finale, but was unable to. So we will have a special episode during the break where we can get all of his insights about this heart-wrenching episode. So Mark and I, with our viewers feedback, pop in a tape in Althea’s camera and record our thoughts about the Past, Present, and Future of Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 Episode 8, No One’s Gone. Ratings were up… No One’s Gone got a 0.73 in the 18-49 demographic, with 2.320 million viewers. That’s up from last week‘s 0.60 and 1.971 million viewers. Don’t Forget the Mid-Season Return of Episode 9 is August 12th, so the deadline is… Please leave your feedback by 6 PM Eastern/5 PM Central on Tuesday, August 14, 2018. We will be discussing the Season 4b premiere of Fear the Walking Dead Episode 9. Other Fun Stuff Completely Unrelated to No One’s Gone! If you want to help pay for the editing of this and other podcasts, I mentioned how you can donate credits to my Auphonic account, which I use to make these episodes sound so good! That link is https://auphonic.com/donate_credits?user=bmeloche. Please remember to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Subscribing to us helps us move up in the rankings, so it’ll help us out tremendously! You’ll also get new episodes when they’re released. And while you’re in there, leave us a rating or review! It only takes a few minutes and it also helps us out! apple podcasts

The Q - Ep. 363 - 1800 Bill Murray

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 15, 2018 73:58

Anthony Rogers and Gary Weed join the show to discuss how Trump met with Kim Jong Un in Singapore to sign a "friendship agreement" (not a peace treaty). At this point, the North Koreans are more worried about peace with the USA than stopping the War between them and South Korea. So did it go well? We discuss all the intricacies and everything regarding this historic summit. Gary Weed hit Mark up earlier in the week with meme from the internet that intrigued him. It said "You have $100 and you have to put a block party together with these listed bands and their prices, who do you pick?" So Mark decided to discuss their picks live on the show, who would you pick...listen and figure it out. But the most surprising moment was when Anthony Rogers, the actor extraordinaire, explained that he has access and the number for the famous Bill Murray 1-800 number. It's well known that Murray takes voicemails off the line and makes his business decisions off of that. So the guys use Anthony's phone and call Bill directly to pitch coming on the Q and being interviewed.

The Biggest Takeaways in Ecommerce for 2018

The Quiet Light Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later May 1, 2018 35:11

Andrew Youderian is the founder of eCommerceFuel, a private community forum for six to eight figure eCommerce sites. After getting out of finance and buying and selling two eCommerce businesses, Andrew saw the need for a platform for the 7-figure eCommerce community. Looking for a space where this group of exceptional entrepreneurs could bounce ideas and information off one another, he started the website and has never looked back. In addition to the forum, eCommerceFuel holds a live annual event, publishes a yearly “state of the merchant” report, and now hosts a job board exclusively for the eCommerce domain. We spend this episode discussing the results of their 2018 state of the merchant eCommerce report. Episode Highlights: This year there were about 450 survey participants with an average store income of $2.3 million. Andrew shares the three big takeaways from the survey. Which niches are growing versus which are stagnant or shrinking, according to the survey. The fastest growing stores have a high component of Amazon revenue to them. A strategy that some bigger merchants are taking is to use Amazon as a way to help launch a brand, then taking the cash and momentum generated from Amazon to help build offline presence. We discuss top trends in shopping carts, email marketing, help-desks, and product reviews. We learn that eCommerce revenue values seem to be generally going up across the board. Which business models are experiencing the most growth and why dropshipping may have made a bit of a comeback last year. What the fastest growing eCommerce categories are among the survey takers. Who the favorite entrepreneur was from last year from among the top in the world. Transcription: Mark: Hey Joe, how are you? Joe: I'm good Mark! How are you doing today? Mark: I'm doing good, I've been busy these past week doing a few interviews. Joe: You have? You have been slacking and then picking up that slack and doing it more yourself. Thank you! Mark: I think anybody who's been listening to our show knows that you're not a slacking on this, but I'm just trying to play catch-up here to your three(3) episodes to everyone that I have done. But, I've been catching up this week and I'm really excited about the someone guest that we have coming up weeks. And one of the first ones is Andrew Youderian, whom we both know well from E-commerce field. Joe: I do! You know I tell the story often. The first time I went to an E-Commerce field event was in Nashville, I think it's 3 or 4 years. but I remember saying specifically that when I got back, you know, I talked about it. I heard more intelligent E-Commerce conversation in 24 hours than I heard in previous 24 months. It's an exceptional group of entrepreneurs and they help each other on a regular basis which is incredible. Mark: Yeah, I think, there are couple of groups out there which I have zero hesitation endorsing and have told people that they need to be a part of it. If anyone listening is in E-Commerce, E-Commerce Fuels is a private form that requires that you apply in order to get access to it, you have to have a business of a certain size to be able to get in. Some of the most intelligent that we know in the space and the most successful people that we know on the space are members of that form. It's a really, really good community. They have an event that they put on every year which is one of our favorite events to go to, all the E-Commerce feel alive. So, one of the things Andrew does every year though, because he's got all his members, you know, several hundred members who have successfully E-Commerce stores, is he surveys them and he puts together a full on report called ‘State of E-Commerce' or ‘State of the Merchant'. Can't remember the exact name of it. But this entire interview, he and I are talking about this report because the data in here is awesome! It's really, really cool! You get to see how fast are businesses is growing. What percentage of businesses are Amazon. We get to sift through (2.55) revenue side. What is the typical breakdown by channel. And one of the cool businesses data in the report this year was what niches are growing versus what's shrinking. For example, one of the cool things that got pointed out when we talked about a little bit is, men's clothing and accessories was among one of the fastest growing sectors. Conversely, women's clothing and accessories was one of the ones that was stagnant or declining. So, we go into, what's going on there! Lots of really cool data in that report. Joe: Interesting! Interesting! Andrew is a super nice guy! Full of integrity and character in the whole E-Commerce Fuel Group is a reflection of him. I believe so, let's just jump to it, see what he's got to say! Mark: Absolutely! Hey Andrew! Thanks for joining me! Andrew: Yeah! Thanks for having me here in Mark appreciated. Mark: Alright, you are joining me from a van obviously. Andrew: Yeah, look like a total sketch fall hair. It's kind of a old Mobil office I have. I'm on the road with the family and when I need to do podcast or interviews or phone calls, I usually come out here coz it's little quieter. As you know, we got kids, it can be tough to do inside with kids and ah.. Yeah, so here we are! Mark: I love it! Yeah, you're not the first guest to actually show up in the vehicle. We had Chad Annis on a while ago and he was on his RV. He's been doing it for nine months, just living the RV life for nine months. But I know you're out there, just kind of traveling around and on a vacation, so to speak, with your family, right? Andrew: Yeah! We're just kind of doing, doing a little trip. We love to get out of Montana. You're from—you'll appreciate this. I mean you're from Minneapolis, you know the winters can be a little brutal up north. We're in Montana and trying to get out of town and get us some more climate, you know, 2-3 months, the winter and work along the way but trying to get a little more vitamin D in the body, so that's what we do. Mark: Yeah! Our winters been super long here, my wife has told me that if it's goes on for a few more weeks, were leaving, she doesn't know where, were just going to go. Not move, were just going to go somewhere. I'm going to come home and she's just going to say, “get in the car.” So, see this, you and I know each other from E-commerce feel but I'm going to let you introduce yourself to our listeners and kind of your background and what you do. Andrew: Sure! So my background is- I'm trying to get from the beginning as brief of a story as possible at my points. Got on a school, working finance for couple of years and kind of invest in making world and learned a lot, got a lot of great experience but decided that didn't want to sell my soul to the corporate world, so quit and was looking for an opportunity to start a business and only enough, got into E-commerce, started selling CV Radios. I ran that business for a number of years, kind of two years into that. Start a second business, selling trolling motors, knowing E-commerce space, drop shipping business and couple years after that I just found that I was meeting a lot of people doing similar things that I was and it's kind of interesting very isolated, entrepreneurs in the E-commerce space. You know it'd be really cool if there was a community for these group of people so, started, it was called E-Commerce fuel which ended up evolving into a community for a high six (6) and seven (7) and eight (8) figure E-Commerce store orders. So I've since sold both of those moving E-commerce businesses. Now, my primary fulltime gig is running that community which in the ways, I try to add value in our team choice. To add value is through light events which Mark you and Quiet light has been generous enough to sponsor and support so thank you. Through live events, through a private forum that we have, kind of curated [inaudible 0:06:11.1] forum of people with experience in space and then through some proprietary software's that we've built. So that's my story and what I do. Mark: Yeah, and for anyone that is not familiar with the E-commerce fuel and the forum they're associated with, really, really valuable. I don't anybody who's a member of that forum who doesn't consider to be one of their top resources. And the conference put up every year, it is phenomenal. We go to a lot of conferences, absolutely love E-commerce fuel. Here in the E-commerce space we have a store that's six (6), seven (7), eight (8) figures. I don't know where you are with your registrations or what you're doing for accepting your memberships but tough work in the resource. Andrew: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Mark: Yeah. So every year, you do a survey of the members, performance survey of the members of your forum and it's the State of the Merchant Report. Tell me a little bit about that and how you put those report together and what it talks about. Andrew: Yeah, so, I wanted to try to get a sense of what was happening with Merchants and that sudden figure range, 'cause you–Forbes will put up reports about, you know, the fortune five hundred (500) and you hear these stats about your target in Amazon and that's interesting but it's a very different world when you're in that kind of size business that I was in, that our members are in. And so every year, I put it together like you mentioned and just– it's a survey of about 50 questions. This last year we had about four hundred and fifty (450) people respond. The average size of the store owners responding was about two point three (2.3) million and we put together a lot of stats. Everything from— We put together everything together from: where the people are from, and what type of businesses they have , conversion rates, revenue growth, how Amazon is impacting their business, all those kind of things. So, yeah, that's the kind of the survey in a nutshell and there's kind of three big take aways that I can go into or if there's something else you wanted to talk about first , we can do that too Mark. Mark: Yeah, so let's go onto the three big takeaways and for anyone looking at this, there's –this is freely available online, the ecommercefuel.com and we'll link to it in the show notes. And probably, I hope for a member, I'll link to them an e-mail that I'll send out people as well about this podcast, but lot's are really good data in here. So you do this every year, you pour over the data and you take a look at the– you know, what's important, what were the big takeaways for you these year? Andrew: Yes! So the big takeaways, let's say for the last 2018, really 2017 but published 2018 was this incredibly strong year for growth for kind of that seven (7) figure store owner demographic. Revenue, year over year, revenue was up, thirty eight (38) % and only about eleven (11) % of stores didn't see any growth at all, so like last year- you know it was in it's high twenty's (20's) or twenty five (25), twenty six (26), you look at E-commerce in general it tends to grow in a twenty (20), twenty two-ish percent range. But this year was just an incredible year, really strong growth. That was one. The second thing was, was that Amazon was a driver for a lot [inaudible 0:08:57]. This isn't surprising but it's you see, how much Amazon is contributing to merchant's revenue. So, last year, the year before this, Amazon was supposed to be responsible for about twenty (20) percent of overall revenue so let's say, you know- of a someone who's near a million dollars in sales for an average store. Two hundred thousand of that would've been generated from Amazon. This year was up to twenty-eight (28) percent so this year, two hundred and eighty (280) thousands of their million dollars in revenue was coming from Amazon. So Amazon's definitely making up a bigger portion of merchant's pie. Counterpart of that though is, Amazon also is generating more headaches and complaints for people so we looked at the number of people every year who say that- you know, we ask them what their biggest challenge and struggle in their business is, and this last year, the number of people who said Amazon is the biggest struggle or one of them was to almost 3X. And this wasn't just people complaining that Amazon was killing their business, saying that they were drop-shipper and “Oh no, all my sales are dying because Amazon was stealing them” that was only a small fraction. Probably, you know, twenty (20) percent of people complaining, thus majority of them were complaining about things like Amazon's being more competitive, I'm too reliant to, I'm tired of dealing with some of their terms of service and policies or things like that. So Amazon's more up to a greyer revenue but also there's also additional overhead burden with that. And finally, the last big takeaway was that conversion rates increase dramatically across the board for all sellers. The rates were up about twenty five (25) percent- you know, year over year. So, last year conversion rate on average was at 2.10 percent this last year it jumped up to 2.664 percent, right on that range. And, you know that was, probably the most surprising step for me for the whole survey because, it's difficult enough to bump up your conversion rate by twenty (25) percent across a single site but to see that across a group of twenty (20), four hundred and fifty (450) stores on average and I thought maybe, you know maybe what we were saying was that you can be seeing more people shift to manufacturing or product labeling which tends to have a much higher conversion rate than let's say drop-shipping. But I saw that conversion rate boost across all different store types from drop-shipping to just reselling, to manufacturing and so, hard for me to explain, I kind of hypothesize that perhaps our community is getting a little bigger and merchants are maybe getting a little more advanced; the economy and the US particularly has done well this last year. Whatever the reason something back there, those were probably the three biggest takeaways that I have to work for. Mark: Alright, so one thing that I've always found interesting about your report is the percentage of sales that Amazon takes from some of your largest stores. What are the data show–if you remember of hand, I don't know if you have the report in front of you, but what are the data show from your largest stores and how much they are actually getting from Amazon? Andrew: Let me see here if we actually calculated that this year, so I don't think we actually– Let's see, we have– we measured a couple things, we didn't get the actual revenue from, you know, what percentage of the revenue Amazon was generated by stores that had a lot on Amazon but we did measure was kind of revenue growth for different stores if they weren't selling on Amazon, if they were selling on Amazon, or were Amazon was sixty (60) percent of their revenue. So when you break it down that way, Amazon, you know, stores aren't selling on all on Amazon, they're growing in about thirty (30) percent. Stores they're selling a little bit on Amazon, you know some of them are growing in about forty one (41) percent and stores where Amazon is, you know, makes up to sixty (60) percent plus of their revenue, they're growing at fifty one (51) percent. So, you're definitely seeing the fastest growing source, definitely have a very high component of Amazon revenue to and the same thing too for income growth, it follows kind of lock step with the income that people are seeing as well. Mark: Right, now I'm just going to go through this here, one chart that I see is the Amazon dominance trance. Amazon as a source number channel, looks like you have twenty six (26) percent there? Andrew: Yep, so that's twenty six (26) percent of merchants listed Amazon as their number one channel up from twenty (20) percent last year. Mark: See, that number right there, actually is almost staring 'cause it seems like with the restore I see, it may have started flying with the website and then they move over to Amazon and Amazon took up all of the revenue. This is showing what seventy four (74) percent are still have other channel as their dominant channels or maybe they're just so diversified, What's the story behind that? Andrew: That's good question! I think it's a lot of our members are, I would say probably three quarters of them for whatever reason don't– are not a primarily–they have a very good presence off of Amazon as well and maybe, I don't know if that's just culture or part of it's to the [inaudible 0:13:20.7] silver screening and who we kind of bring in to the community but I think that might be more of–a bias of our community as to maybe just a general market thing 'cause you see, as you said, a lot of–it's probably under what you've expect to see. So I'm not exactly sure, I think part of that might just be a demographic work community report. Mark: I think it's fast– I think it's useful data, especially for people that have an E-commerce businesses who're think that they want to make Amazon their pear play. I've talked to a few business owners they've said wildly, “I'm going to focus my attention to-on Amazon because, it's for the money, yes, and why would I take away my other efforts from Amazon and make as much money.” But it appears as if you do have a number of stores that are doing that seven (7) and eight (8) figure revenue almost, without Amazon being that dominant channel. Andrew: yeah definitely and I think what a lot of the savvy merchants that I see in our community doing in any kind of floss and secret to Amazon is, it's hard to pass up free money and easy money and granted that Amazon's getting harder but still it's a pre-power form and conquering opportunity even in 2018. But their mindset much of the time is use Amazon as a way to help launch a brand, to help generate some cash flow and then use the momentum you can generate from Amazon, Use the cash you can generate from Amazon to help build your off Amazon, your own dot com, your own web store presence, because all fully that's the asset that you own and i's much less rescue than being be-haunt by Amazon going forward so I think that's a strategy a lot of us, as bigger merchants are taking. Mark: That's absolutely see as well with Amazon is that launch process tends to be. You want to be testing your products and been able to launch a brand so much faster because of the size of the market place. Let's talk real quick about software. You guys have a very cool part of your community where your community rates software that they're using and it's feedbacks. So you have like a star rating. If somebody wants to find like a good shopping card or what shopping card they should use, or maybe help desk software. You guys have a whole record of software within the community that rates that, right? Andrew: We do, yeah, and so part of it is the ratings like you mentioned another part of it, and maybe more telling is– is the usage stats. We have about a thousand members in our community and our software goes out and crawls all of our member's stores on a weekly basis and uses an integration we've built with to be able to tell what all of the members are using. So we can tell in a real time that “Oh, you know, forty four (44) percent of our members are on Shopify this year versus, you know thirty seven (37) percent last year.” Whatever it is. So we can get stats on what people are using but also people– our members who rate the software as well as, with essence, what's– you know, what people like. Mark: That's– that's pretty cool. So what software would you say is really– sum of the people should be paying attention to in 2018? What's really been growing quite a bit over the past year? Andrew: I'd say, you know, search shopping biggest one's and that's probably become as a surprise to people but Shopify just dominates in this area, you look at that thousand-ish area in our community and I think probably about forty (40)– Four hundred and twenty (420), four hundred and thirty (430) of them succumb, you know, over forty (40) percent close to forty five (45) percent use Shopify and the number of people we've seen switch to Shopify from Magento over the last two (2)- three (3) years is just unbelievable, they've done a really good job capturing that market shares. So, on a shopping card side, that's when I'd say, the other four well kind of three that we have within the– still the merchant E-mail marketing, Mailchimp is the number one. They've got two hundred and eighty two (282) out of our top one thousand and Clivio's to seventeen of our top one thousand. So both those are kind of the leaders there. Fairly close. Help desks, we've got Zendesk- is the top to use, sixty one (61) out of a thousand use them, but help scouts pretty close behind there and they get slightly better ratings. And I would be surprised if we didn't see a flip-flop of that seen help scout come on the top over the next year. And for product reviews, Shopify parse based on the facts that people use, Shopify is reviewed, built on reviews the system has most popularly used. YAGPO used to be that number one spot but they dropped to number three (3) this last year. Partially, they got great functionality but I think a lot of the kind of experience that I've heard from stores is just their pricing is getting quite a bit more expensive. And so you see, companies like Stem Dot ayo who offers similar functionality at a much lower price might come in, they'd jump up significantly this year up to the number two (2) spot. So, those were kind of the trends I'm seeing. For disclosure we've had the Claygo sponsor of our podcast. YAGPO use to sponsor us and Shoprite sponsored us in the past. Mark: Right so that might be infusive but I'd want to share something, cause I think you'll actually appreciate this. I'm working on a client right now and hopefully, let's say business here soon, tell me last time you heard this: He's on Yahoo! shopping card. Andrew: Well occasionally we get somebody on the forum saying “Hey, I'm on Yahoo! stores, should I migrate or how do I migrate.” It's always an entertaining thread to read. Yeah, that's– curious people laugh. Mark: When they told me that, It's like “Woah, I haven't heard that for at least like five or six years. It used to be the gold standard that everybody used. Andrew: Well, I think- I mean, if you look in the cell that's probably a decent positioning stand point for someone who's careful of migrations and reason. I'd still say “Hey!” but you know, I'm sure there's some incredibly converting Yahoo! store sites out there but you can probably modernize and probably get thick enough conversion, it's a rebrand, it's a nice value out of your– if you're going to buy this thing. Mark: Yeah, that's an interesting listing, which I'm sure a lot of people will be looking at once it comes out but yeah. So , let's talk a little bit about Magento and fact that there's– I seem I heard a little bit, my only foreign in E-commerce that I wrote a blog post on this years ago but it was kind of disaster for myself. My foreign in E-commerce side, what with Magento and– My goodness, I had so much trouble with it. What do you think the problem is with Magento. Are they just losing out at Shopify or are there problems that are kind of inherent at Shopify. Andrew. It's– I think it really depends year-use case. It's–Magento's incredibly powerful. They've got a decent eco-system for a lot of their extensions but it's just so complex. Like I've been on multiple shopping cards; Zencard, Shopify, Magento. And by far, the hardest one to customize was Magento. Even just changing layouts around on the homepage was a nightmare and I– so I think, I think the problem is, is that it's-it's very powerful but it's much more complex than your average store owners specially in the seven (7) figures is going to need. When you look at the benefit of having full customization verse's the benefit of ease of administration and up key maintenance Shopify or another Host solution just makes, just makes more sense. And I think that there, when you think about it, if you do actually need to have access to the code base to be able to fully customize your site which is definitely–there are definitely stores out there that would be able to create custom functionality, be able to put together custom integrations that you can, with maybe some hosting solutions if the IPI's would allow it. If you need a hundred percent customization there are other cards out there that maybe– a little lighter way or quite as heavy and resource intensive and hard to customize as Magento that are probably a better option for people on that seven (7) figure range. Mark: Yeah, alright, cool. I want to go to the first point that you brought up, and that is, that revenues are up across the board from a review that you've seen, which this is something that is seen across the board as well with the business that were selling right? The business that you're selling, the values just seem going up, up, and up. And I don't know if this is a maturation or the industry just businesses that have been around longer and now are a richer skill or– really what's behind it? You make a point in your report here about– where is it? That would be the margins, the cross margins seem to hold up as well. Can you come on a little bit on the margins that you're seeing on E-commerce. I think the margins here– seen: growth margin, average of 39.2 percent and that margins of 17.4 percent. What is the trend to start with bend with that and over the past few of these revenues growing that's all same level? Andrew: Yeah, So this is something that surprise me, with how much Amazon is growing and how, you know much it's supposed to talk about. Our margin bends this opportunity. You would expect that margins to come on with more pressure this year. What I found was that they didn't slide as much as I thought they would've. Tiny bit but not very much, like you mentioned, the growth margin was 39.2 percent I think last year was a little bit higher, like 39.7 or 8 percent so it sled like a tiny bit but not much and same on the net merchant this year it was 70.4. I think last year it was 70.8 or 9. So it came down a little bit but nearly as much as I was expecting to see and if you look at the margins of stores for selling primarily on their own platform versus that are primarily selling on Amazon. This might be interesting for people, the growth margin for people primarily signed on Amazon is thirty six (36) percent versus 40.4 percent selling by their own store. And neither I expect that because Amazon takes a fee and new work fees that pays on top for Veer store. But even when you count for all the fees and the advertising you get bend your own store versus Amazon. You're still going to set a better margin selling on your own stores 17.7 percent after all said and done versus Amazon which is 16.6 so that's kind of hell of margins broke down this year. Mark: That's fascinating! Something that I feel being of interest with a lot of buyers is this average growth by business model and the format. So obviously with E-commerce you have a lot of different ways that you can do E-commerce and I'll get buyers sometimes say “Men, I want to buy a business.” “What are you thinking of?” “E-commerce.” “What type of the E-commerce?” I don't know. Okay– You have to understand like, in E-commerce there's some significant differences. Drop shipping had growth of 32.7 percent recently 27.6. I'm actually a little surprised to see more growth in the drop shipping category than in reselling category. Andrew: I was too. I was very surprised to see that. And one of my guesses about why that was, just a guess but this last year, Shopify bought Oberlo, I believe it's that pronounced, the integrator with Ali Express. You kind of have seen a significant up taken in people using that drop shipping from China via AliExpress model this year or last eighteen (18) months and I wonder if that– part of that is a responsible fact 'cause looking back at last year's report, if I remember correctly, drop shipping was– had the lowest growth. I think our selling beat it out. So, I wonder if that is what potentially changed the tides on things. Mark: Yeah, possible. And in all fairness you list here the percentage of stores that are also have flatten beckoning revenues and drop shipping seems to be just kind of split right down the middle here. You have thirty three (33) percent, basically growing thirty three (33) percent that are flat or declining so they're also– although they're doing okay there is a number that are also in a hurting category. Andrew: Exactly! yeah, Exactly, about a third of drop shipping business is at either flat or in declines. So last year, again surprisingly it's–I was– seeing the numbers, having a drop shipping business myself, whether reasons I sold that business was because I saw they had wins with drop shipping, it's pretty much more difficult with Amazon and with some other forces and last year you stated, the merchant fifty (50) percent of drop shipping stores were either flat or declining. And that's come down significantly where you're only thirty three (33) percent or in that category now. So I think part of that is potentially or below, I think part of that is just an improved year. But when you look at the stores in the other categories in rough shape, either stalled out or shrinking, you'll see much smaller numbers. Any more from fifteen (15) to twenty (20) percent for all the other categories, reselling private label, manufacturing. So yeah, so definitely some stronger areas, I think still drop shipping– there is still drop shipping business I think that work well. It's just a much harder nut to crack and you really have to be able to have a good way to add value outside of the product because you're resetting commodities and come on in and sell this as well. So it's just trickier to get right at it. Mark: Right! And I think there are some industries back with the shoverey I had into E-commerce with doing gun safes. It's going to be not very realistic to the warehouse. Gun safe in most cases once you're doing very large volumes just because the shipping cost or so, so high regardless what you're doing. Andrew: Right. Mark: So there are some businesses that land themselves to that. I think it should be no surprise to anybody that private label and manufacturing seem to be the biggest winners with forty three (43) and forty two (42) percent on every forty three (43) percent both the categories were growing and only twenty one (21) of fifteen (15) percent of those categories respectively were shrinking. Andrew: just to clarify mark, that's– so for private label and manufacturing that's the actual revenue growth rate per year. So private label will be growing like forty three (43) percent and manufacturing growing in about forty two (42) percent per year. Mark: Okay! Good! Good clarification. Fastest growing category. Is this something that we could ask all the time or what businesses are hot now? Which should I be looking for a buyer or looking to buy something? At the top of your list pet supplies which isn't a huge surprise whenever we get a business that deals with pets. Oh men, I think just flies out the shelf when I get someone with inquiries on that. But I'm well surprised about food. Andrew: And I'll put on a disclaimer on here. We have forum of fifty people respond, you break down, let's say twenty (20) or thirty (30) categories. We do not have growth bust to this as I would love and I imagine that if we got– if we have five (5) thousand, I'm sure that this numbers might be a little bit different. Take this with a little bit of a aggression that if we didn't have–we had almost no data points, these are coming off to history businesses to come off you know. It's nine (9) or ten (10) or more businesses so-. But yeah food is on there and I've seen, and I told you, a handful of businesses doing well in the food space over the last year so, That was little surprising but yeah, definitely nonetheless. It was coming in about fifty six (56) percent year over year. And again another carry up for this is again our stores are in a small in a high six (6), seven (7) figure range a lot of them so, you probably want to see high gross rates here than you would, just across the board for any businesses but still strong show food. Mark: Yeah! and probably one of the most eyed- piece of data that I've seen in to support in again. I'm focusing a lot on this one category because I think it's going to be interesting for a lot of our buyers. Men's clothing, thumbs up! Women's clothing, not growing as fast. Such an interesting this really. Andrew: Yeah! I mean it's not even-it's a huge gap. Fifty three (53) percent, men's clothing and accessories versus twenty eight (28) percent in woman's clothing and accessories and I think it's– I think part of that is just you have– I mean woman's fashion, I think is more saturated, more– just traditionally. And I think you're starting to see more interesting kind of men's apparel come out. Specially direct to consumer, men's apparel and– yeah it's almost current twice as fast 'cause I just think there's more room than there is much competition. There's still, I mean your apparel, not an easy place to be in but men's versus women, I think men's probably much easier place to make money right now. Mark: Yeah, absolutely! So, last, put them in a do with the steadily commerce– clocking pretty quickly, I think this is probably the funniest question I've seen, anybody ask on survery about your favorite entrepreneur. How did you select these four entrepreneurs. And the four that you choose likely just set anyone, let's see: Ian Moss, Richard Branson, Mark Cuban, and Jeff Basels. Some of those makes sense, how did you slot those four? Andrew: Oh, I got to have Basels on the right 'cause he's the you know, king of E-commerce. The other, I was just trying to come up with, with four well-known billionaires, the idea of being cool, do you know what billionaire who you want to have lunch with and just top up of my head once that came to mind that were worth the billion dollars at least is Ian and kind of just came to me quickly was those four, kind of those than that. Mark: I'm actually surprised Ian Moss by large margins. Andrew: (laughs) You want to be the– Almost thirty (30) percent it was Richard Branson, second was twenty five (25), Cuban twenty three (23), and Basels. Surprisingly or maybe not so surprisingly given this is an E-commerce survey and– some people in here, a little help with the others as well, was Basels with 22.2 so– Mark: I'm not surprised at all. I was really hoping back think we are can you get to it this time, so maybe we can do it at future episode, I was really hoping to talk a little bit about you're experiences on your own businesses, your own E-commerce businesses and what that was like because you self-sold, you didn't use appropriate off those and I think the first one you did– Didn't you do a public auction with that? Andrew: First one? I did and it was kind of strange and I think you were kind enough to retouch me after that and give me some tips and talk to me about it in a real gracious way. I did it was reverse auction, so the way it worked was like I listed the site– well first it was– everything was publicly transparent as you know most of the sales that you do, fairly quiet about the financials, the instance, the data. And I– the options, I published all the financials, all the key things, there was a few things I held back that might have been easy to rip-off the business with but ninety (90) percent, for PINO balance sheet, all I can have set, I made public and– so that was one part. Second part was I do the answer, reverse auction and so the price started at a hundred and ninety to eighty five thousand dollars, and then every week would drop by ten thousand dollars until somebody decide they wanted to buy it and I had someone, I think at the first week of before evening drop, and take it up. So it was kind of a very unorthodox way to sell a business and only the first one to say I think I lacked out on getting a great buyer from the out set that we work well together and close the deal. I very much could've blown it in my face, but -yeah. A little bit different. Mark: If somebody wants to look at that, you can do a search on Google for E-commerce fuel and sign E-commerce business. I believe it actually come up in the third results, if I'm not mistaken or we can make it easier and link up our show notes, and some one will like the post . Andrew: Also, new link for the show notes and also if you could Google E-commerce fuel reverse auction or reverse auction “trollingmotors.net” That's the name of the business that might pop-up as well. Mark: That's right, remember that new E-mail do you have? I mean it was completely selfish forums on my part, I just wanted to be in front of the audience so– Andrew: (laughs) Mark: But see you got a lot of really cool resources available in E-commerce field obviously there is a form which is you have to apply for in order to get in to say no that you're going to get high quality members there. You guys also have a job board that you release in week. I think it's so , discretion it's so often to people who buys site and who want to have fines with good confidence and help. I don't really recommend anything to people but you guys just recently started up a job org. Andrew: We did, yeah! That something we saw was a both kind of a gap in the market and also just like you said, something our members are having a hard time with was finding a really good quality E-commerce talent. and our job award is focused on E-commerce directors or managers kind of high level. You know people they can run an entire operations for an owner as well as exceptional marketers PPC, E-mail Mark any things like that and exceptional customer service reps so people that are really good on customer service over the phone or email or chats. So that's our job board list in the positions we really focus on, and try to– try to build a community, a job board that's healthier so that when you run a store, you know where you can go to get in front of an audience of people looking for dispositions and if you're lucky to get the E-commerce world it's a great place to going to be able to find an opportunity, hopefully to get plugged in and you can actually find that at ecommercefuel.com/jobs. Mark: you're going to owe me a lot of thanks, I'm going to send them, all on the show notes. Andrew: , So Mark, I will happily send you as many links– [inaudible 0:32:58.6] I bet that won't be a problem. Mark: Of course, it's been an awesome state of Merchant report, this is your second doing it, is that right? Andrew: Second year doing it, hope to do it every year. And yeah– this is the second year. Mark: It's also lot of work to put together but there's few things I look forward to. As one of those things I look forward to, I think there's actually really good data insights in this report. Anyway that's been invite, or anyone who's in E-commerce space in general. This is something that you want to check out for sure. If you are not familiar with the E-commerce fuel I would definitely recommend checking them out and I know I'm completely endorsing you, this is not something I normally do but I really do believe we should do in over there at E-commerce fuel. I know so many members there that they become friends of our company and personal friends as well. I like to brag about things that I think will actually help people and honestly your group is out there helping a lot of people in space. Andrew: well thank you, I appreciate the kind words, Mark. And one thing I wanted to mention just on a say the merchant if you're a daily geek and you want the add the numbers or your smarter than me which is almost certainly the case and one plots some more insights from these, we make all of the data just openly available so you can go to the webpage for this post and download the full data set so by all means a stats measure or try to do the best I can but if you want to -if you have insights you can plot of it we do make whole data set available for people so, Mark: Yeah! and if you pull on any insights send an email over to Andrew, just let him know. I'm sure he would love to see it. Andrew: I'd love to hear about it, yeah , please do. Mark: Cool, Andrew thanks, so much for coming on, I hope to have you on some time in the future. Really, really appreciate it. Andrew: Mark, thanks for letting me, you know, the invitation and for the support that you've given the- to our fans, to our community over the years. Appreciate that as well Mark: Cool, alright, well hey, enjoy that vacation! Andrew: Thanks appreciate that! Links and Resources: eCommerceFuel State of the Merchant 2018 Story of Andrew's first eCommerce site sale eCommerce fuel job board

The Q - Ep .353 - Tear Gas

golden globes cameo so mark

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2018 65:44

Well the world is an interesting place and Jason Kull likes to make light of the people in that world. On this episode, Brandon Travis joins to discuss the weird tactics of parliaments around the world and how one recently got a little over the top. Also, Mark discusses the type of government he thinks would work good for the hard headed people of the USA. This leads to our latest discussions about Andrew McCabe being let go from the FBI days before retirement, but AGAIN another person on Capitol Hill getting removed from office around this Trump/Russia Investigation. Finally the guys do a little music offering this week. Mark gets some letters from the listeners and throws out a question about 1 hit wonders, which leads down a rabbit hole about the top 100 1-hit wonders according to VH1. So Mark and the guys break down the top 10 of that list and judge whether its justified or a crappy list.

united states donald trump radio podcasting fbi missouri gas parliament capitol hill wonders daniels tear bland vh1 mccabe tear gas andrew mccabe kull so mark trump-russia investigation

Cameo Guys - Episode 24 - Mark’s ‘Cameo Guy’ Special

Cameo Guys

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 9, 2018 46:08

In a special edition of Cameo Guys - one of our members has been left to hold down the fort on his own. So Mark spends this week's episode discussing all things Golden Globes and spends some time answering listener questions from the socials! Please remember to rate and review the podcast in iTunes or your favourite podcast app.

Nonprofits That Work: Journey's Dream

The Nonprofit Exchange: Leadership Tools & Strategies

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 3, 2017 44:57

Mark Hattas has, amongst other accomplishments, started, built and sold a $20M/yr tech company. He was later diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder and told there was no cure. Mark didn't believe the prognosis and through study, faith, and practice, Mark lived into his faith that he could be well. He is so thankful to all who have helped, and to God. He is committed to help others and give them hope and paths to success as well. This inspiration in 2012 led him to pursue and eventually co-found HSI and Journey's Dream. The dream will be realized when all people can find hope and well-being. More information at http://journeysdream.org Transcript of the Interview Hugh: Welcome to this edition of The Nonprofit Exchange. We always have special people, but these people are really special because they invited me to participate in the foundational strategy building for their vision for bringing amazing resources to others. I want to introduce these two people. Russell, say hello from Denver, Colorado. Russell: It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood and a beautiful day to be here with Mark and Mitzi. I look forward to a wonderful chat today. They are doing great work here. Hugh: Russell and I co-host this, and we have some fascinating conversations with people that are doing amazing things. This particular chain of interviews is about people who are doing real things in the real world. The ones we have done previously have been organizations that have been in existence for a while. This one is a young organization, but they are really making some traction. They are doing some really good stuff. I wanted to interview them about how they got started and what kind of traction they are making and what their plans are and how they impact lives. Mark, let's start with Mark Hattas. You tell us a little bit about your journey, who you are, and why you're doing this. Then throw it to Mitzi and let her introduce herself and her role in this. Welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange, Mark. Mark: Thank you so much. Great to be her with both of you, good friends, and Mitzi. *audio cut* My revenue stream, or one of them, one of the things that I had the pleasure of doing early in my career is I built and sold a tech company. About nine months after that, I had a very unique experience where I started experiencing the world much differently than I had previously. I went into what is commonly called mania. I was diagnosed bipolar I, and I was in and out of the hospital three times over a three-year period. I was told right away that I would not get well, and I would be on medication the rest of my life. Most of what we know about the brain we learned in the 1990s, and the world of psychology was still navigating what was really going on. The hospital with that kind of prognosis. It was inspired maybe two months after that, after I had an unusual experience where I was terrified that I was going to have to live my life with my brain in the mode that it was in. So I started to seek solutions, and thank God there were solutions out there. There are amazing practitioners, amazing resources, and I applied them, I practiced them, and I got well. For over three years, I have been off all medication and have been very healthy. Over that course of a period of time, I met Mitzi and her husband Rex and her daughter Brea and learned about what was happening in their lives. We joined together to start what's called Hattas Shay International Foundation, which its project is called Journey's Dream, to help those with mental health challenges find resources and get to a place where they could really believe again that they could get well and then have the strength and the tools to start to go out and navigate their health and well-being with the best support mechanisms that can serve them. We are a hub that creates that environment. We are still building, but we have had some great traction so far. Mitzi? Mitzi: My name is Mitzi Montague-Bauer. My son Journey is symptomatic in his senior year at University of Michigan. At first, we thought it was his quirky behavior or something. We didn't really understand the magnitude of what was happening until he graduated and came home. There were several diagnoses as they didn't present the same way each time. The first doctor thought he had schizophrenia. After that, he was diagnosed with bipolar and depression and manic disorder and a lot of them actually. He was told the same thing that Mark was told: that he would never get well. There was no cure. The best we could hope for was to manage the symptoms and that would be a lifetime of medication. I didn't want to believe that. I didn't believe it. It seemed that the more he heard it, the more he began to believe it. During that time, I spent countless hours looking for the solution that we now know is available, but they were difficult to find. I spent a lot of time searching for any solution that had a different prognosis. By the time I felt confident with the solutions and the collection of modalities that I had collected, Journey was no longer interested. In the beginning, he was open to help. By the time I felt like I had the answers, he had isolated himself, and didn't seem to trust anyone. It became apparent to me that if we had had these solutions in the beginning, perhaps there would have been a different outcome. Journey, after three and a half years of struggling with his mental health and being told he would not get well, he stepped off of a building and ended his life. Because of the lack of- Well, the solutions were there, but they were difficult to find, and there wasn't really one place to find them. The vision that we share is that there would be a place, if a family member or a loved one or someone who is struggling landed on our site, that they would have a whole collection of solutions, possibilities to meet them where they were. Those solutions could be medication. There is a place for medication. A whole slew of other opportunities. Hugh: Thank you for sharing that. That is an important message. Mark, to declare that SynerVision has been working with this project from the onset. We started putting together the pieces in Mitzi's basement with Mitzi, her husband, her daughter, you, and me. We worked really hard for a couple of days getting our heads around what this looks like. That was not really the starting point, but it was the launchpoint where you were able to then say we are doing this for real and we are moving ahead. Why did you decide to put this in the framework of a tax-exempt charity? Mark: I'd built the for-profit organization. When I started to learn about the power of the tax-exempt organizations, it allows for people to give to a cause that they believe in and the way that they can and have tax benefits. It gives an opportunity to donate funds, provide in-kind services—for example, there is an organization helping us with our technology for the practitioner network. They are donating all the framework and developing even. That would have cost us quite a lot of money otherwise. Because it is for the greater good of the broader population, we didn't really see a need for any one of us or any group to own it. We wanted it to be available for all, and we are the stewards of it. So we really looked from the beginning at this organization being something that is a gift to all of those people who were in a situation like Journey's situation, or my situation, and the many that exist out there. Tax-exempt has made a whole lot of sense. When we spoke with Sherita Herring, she helped us set that up and reeducated me, retooled my brain, along with you, on what the power of tax-exempt is and how much funding is actually out there and available, and support. We took advantage of your expertise and knowledge to set this up right from the beginning. Hugh: There is a lot of power in philanthropic giving, both in individual donors. We were on a call with Sherita last night. She is one of our partners in SynerVision. Actually, she helped me create my foundation years ago. She is a queen of nonprofit information. She knows the right stuff. We have been on a journey equipping the culture to then step up to where you need to be. I have been impressed with how systematic you have been. You have tried not to short-cycle everything. You have taken things in stride, in sequence, and really let the different stages of this play out and mature without cutting it short. I commend you for that. So many people starting organizations like this want to get there and want to get it done. They leave a lot of stuff in the garbage on the side of the road on the way. You have been very systematic in developing this. I commend you for that. Russell, I know a little more about this because I have been involved with him for a year and a half. We decided we worked together for 365 non-continuous days. It's been a pace that's been very logical. Mark, you've created some programs, and you have done some beta tests on the programs. Talk a little bit about who those programs are for and the impact that program has had and will have on people's lives. Mark: The intent long-term is to have a whole hub of many programs. We have a few through affiliate partners, but we also- One of the things that we co-created with Rookha Group is a program called the Optimal Being program. The Optimal Being program is absolutely by far the core of what I did to navigate the brain dynamics that were spinning around in me and get to a place where I could start to navigate the world in a more healthy way. There are three things that occur in the Optimal Beam program. One is the awakening of the inner guidance system. It's really incredible that every human being innately has an inner guidance system, but so many people have conflicts within it and their programming that has them doing things on automatic decision-making that is not really constructive for their lives. What this does is help to soften that, release those beliefs and ideas that aren't really serving us anymore, and get to a place where the inner guidance system is listened to and it comes alive in us and it really leaves us to what's optimal for us. Mitzi mentioned sometimes medication is the optimal thing for someone in the beginning stages, so go for it and do it. Listen to those doctors. Believe the diagnosis they give you, but don't believe the prognosis if they are not telling you you can get well. Allowing for that inner guidance system to come on gives people confidence. It gives them courage. It's a healthy courage. It realigns their personal code of decision-making from one that could be negative and destructive to one that is always constructive. That is a key thing with the Optimal Being program. Another thing that happens there is community. Here is people that come together who are also going through life's challenges. To learn these tools together and to come to a community where people are in a like situation or like-minded, they are seeking solutions, that accelerates everyone's health and wellbeing. Ideas are shared in there that the facilitators may have never thought of. One of the people who are participating is contributing as well. People are both giving to the group and receiving from the group. It's a combination of self-instructional programs as well as a weekly online part of the program. The other thing is there is metrics. At the beginning of the Optimal Being program, we allow someone to go into ten categories of their human behavior. These are things that are like self-love. How is that going for someone? If love of self is really low, maintaining love while thinking about themselves is really low. There are some tools that we teach to support increasing that. Maintaining love while thinking of others, maintaining love while actually approaching truth. There is ten of these categories. We measure them in the beginning, and at the end of the 13-week program online, we measure it again. It is fascinating to see how dramatically people change. These are core human development skills that could be taught to a fifth grader or even younger. When someone integrates them into their life, whenever they face something that is a challenge, instead of going to historical patterns of coping mechanisms, they start to have tools that are foundational human tools to start to realize what potential lies within them and have it start to come out in the world. The transformations we have seen in corporate leaders, people who thought they were actually doing fine but wanted to get to the next level, and people who have challenges is profound. Hugh: It's not just for people who are having—I forget how to title it—severe emotional issues. It's not just for people in that profile. Mark: No, it could be someone who is going through a breakup from a relationship and they are sad. It could be a loss of a loved one, and they are going through that grieving process. It could be any number of things that creates in someone the desire to seek something where they are going to feel better. When people feel better and they get to a joyous, and Mitzi knows well about this, place in life, one of the things that starts to occur is their life self-perpetuates in a positive direction. We want to help people navigate through that, so we teach the opposite of the way they were taught in the world when they were growing up. It's like a rewiring of some of the processes they had been using. Mitzi, I don't know if you want to ask anything to that part. Mitzi: I thought you did a beautiful job summarizing. Hugh: Mark, what is the name of that program? The Optimal Bean program? Mark: It's called the Optimal Being Program. Hugh: It's my age and mental condition. Mark: We have tools and technologies. There is an app online that is actually free. People can go download- If they do a search on their phone on “Rookha Group,” they will find the Optimal Being app. It is a powerful app that helps to heal relationships with the commitments tool and to practice maintaining love and the breathing properly as they face a challenging situation. That alone is healing. Hugh: Spell Rookha. Mark: R-o-o-k-h-a. Hugh: R-o-o-k-h-a. Mark: You might be able to type in Optimal Being and get it at this point, too. It's been up there long enough I think you could type in either one. Hugh: Optimal Being. O-p-t-i-m-a-l B-e-i-n-g. So Mark, this is not coaching. It's not counseling. It's not therapy. What is it? Mark: We're like a group of people who have been there and have navigated this. We are educated mentors. I am someone who has gone into it and out of it. When someone does that, they develop a certain set of skills and support others in getting to a place of hope. I don't think anybody in our organization—Mitzi, correct me if I'm wrong—but I think every single person in our organization sees the human beingness in a person. Never have we seen any kind of diagnosis or some kind of illness. It's not the way we look at it. We look at it more like- There is a great analogy of the caterpillar to butterfly. Imagine that the caterpillar goes in to the chrysalis, and then everyone starts to say how awful they are because they don't look like a caterpillar anymore and they are stupid and can't do this and can't do that. The caterpillar is transforming. If we suppress that transformation, we are going to have some funky-looking caterpillars. If they didn't allow the chrysalis process, they are going to be angry, frustrated, grumpy, and eventually fall into depression because they are denying that natural, innate, transformative state. When somebody actually goes into who it is they truly are and they do it with the tools that exist in many different forms, we happen to give them in the way that we learned them. It supports someone having the courage to do what they are innately guided to do. That is why when I was mentioning inner guidance systems it's like listening to yourself, but letting go of all the noise that was in the way, creating conflict within a person. Hugh: I love it. Mitzi, I have appreciated you on our team calls and live work together. You ask really good questions when everybody else is letting it fly by and wondering what that meant. You say, “Wait a minute.” Your attention to detail is very acute. But you always ask it in a very generous and kind way. Instead of putting anybody down, you say, “Would you explain that again? Is it this or that?” First off, talk about your son. This project is named Journey's Dream. Why did you step up to want to be in this core team of four people? I guess it's four people. This core team of champions that are really making it happen. Talk about yourself, and then talk about the other two that aren't here, Rex and Brea. Mitzi: That inner guidance system that Mark was just talking about was what led me to be one of the founders. I again saw a deficit when I looked at the mental health situation on the planet. The suicide attempts and the actual suicides and the message that people hear when they get a diagnosis is one that we wonder why is a stigma. When you get that diagnosis, if you get a diagnosis of schizophrenia and went home and Googled that, that would put you right in the depression, I think. You probably wouldn't want to talk about it. The prognosis is awful. I would love to see the core messaging changing around mental illness. What would have happened with Journey if he was told that he was in a transformational process or that he could get well? That is a different message. A lot of people who are experiencing these states of mania are brilliant. They are on a genius spectrum. They are navigating different things than we are. I think if they had these tools that are available, it would be a different outcome entirely. I was motivated by that, and this is what I was being guided by, too. The other two founders are Rex Montague-Bauer, my husband and Journey's father. Rex and I have been students of these principles that are a lot of the core principles of the Optimal Being. We have been students for a while of that and do our best to practice those in our lives. Our daughter Brea is the fourth founder, Journey's sister. She is a brilliant human being, compassionate. We are all inspired by the same thing: to see a different outcome for people who receive a mental health diagnosis or who are just challenged in general. Hugh: This is a high-functioning team. You all work really well together. That is not the case for every team. Russell, I met Mark at the very first ever SynerVision Leadership Empowerment Symposium. I think it was called Leadership Excellence then. It was in Chicago. Mark met me at a CEO Space gathering the week or two before, and he decided he'd sign up and come. We got connected there. We had conversations. He checked me out for about a year before he- He wanted to make sure I wasn't a flake and was there to stay. Then we started working together. We have had some very deep conversations over time. I am really a fan of Mark and Mitzi and the team as well as what they are doing. So we have been on a journey ourselves. Mark, thank you for inviting me on the journey. It has been a pleasure to be there with you. It has touched me in many ways I hadn't realized I could be touched. It has been an important journey for me just to watch and participate. Russell, what do you see and hear that you want to comment on? I'm sure you have found a couple questions you'd like to throw back at our guests. Russell: I'd like to thank you both for coming here and sharing your story. We have powerful why's, and that is critical to everything. The idea of paying it forward. What we are talking about is raising our level of consciousness. This is something that everybody can do. There is a lot of power in interacting with people who get it. There is a lot of fear and stigma around the idea of a mental diagnosis, but a diagnosis does not define you. Just looking at the alternative complementary types of solutions is critical because it's not all about poppin' a pill. It's about a mental and emotional and spiritual connection and going within and finding that thing that is inside you that can make all things better. To be fair, I think Hugh scared you off with- Mark is probably in earshot when you let loose one of the age and mental condition things. He does that every once in a while, but he is a brilliant man. I know that you had a long journey to figuring out that the idea of raising your consciousness and being around other people who experience the same thing, how did you come to the conclusion that this was the actual solution? Tell me about how that journey took place. Mark: First, I don't know that it would be fair to say that it was the actual solution meaning if you are referring- Are you referring to my own health or the creation of Journey's Dream? Russell: The creation of Journey's Dream as a way to move forward is really- That is my term for raising your level of consciousness, connecting with that is strong and valuable. Mark: I apologize. I misunderstood the question at first. With regard to- How did we discover that Journey's Dream was the solution? It goes back to trusting that inner guidance system and listening. One of the things that we discovered along the way is we want to be very collaborative with other organizations. We want to be inclusive. We believe that there is a place for medication, and there are many organizations who have gone through mental health recovery processes who are against the medication. If I didn't have the medication, I'm not sure I'd still be here. It served me well while it served me. It was more that there was more, and it stopped serving me at some point in a way that I felt like I could really achieve my heart's desire. We wanted to give people access to programs like the Optimal Being program, where they could tap in and tune in and get to that higher consciousness that is going to optimally serve them and give them other tools that could meet them where they are today. They may not be seeking that today; they might just be feeling really miserable and not want to get out of bed. They would like to wake up one day and feel a little better. They are not seeking some lofty thing, but to them, that is very lofty. To get back in touch with who is it that they really are and what is it they are really here to do? We had a belief that if we as a group take care of the stuff that was in our system that was not going to serve Journey's Dream, that we would always know the optimal next step and the optimal step we were in would have the proper attention and focus to be executed optimally. We just did an event in November at Soldier Field. Our first event ever was at Soldier Field in the Midway Room there. There were a couple hundred people there. More than that, it was the BDSA, the Bipolar Depression Support Alliance was there supporting this. Nami Metro were bringing in- They do stuff with the arts. I am not a big art kind of person, but to see what they are doing to give people who are struggling with mental health the opportunity to sing and play music and explore what it is that is going on inside them in a different way, that is extraordinary. There was a faith-based counseling organization that came and supported called Sumeric Care. I am not going to remember them all right now, but they all came together and collaborated to realize a vision. There is a VA organization in Illinois, Joining Forces, and the Illinois Department of Human Services was even there. That is unheard of in my world before that to see these groups come together and say, “You know what? We are going to stand for something, which is we believe that there is a path for all people to get well.” We may not know it today. There might not be a cookbook recipe that is on the shelf. But when we start to bring resources together and collaborate, that is when solutions can be found. That is when the optimal support can come out. We had a half dozen practitioners that committed to come. They spoke and changed people's lives, just by letting people know that these doctors who see patients every day were telling them something different than what they had heard in the hospital, which is you can get well. Just to hear that from another doctor, all of a sudden, all the belief systems around what their condition is collapsed. They had to walk out of there with a remodeled and reconfigured belief system. If they say I can get well, then I can. That is a huge thing. Then we had a few celebrities there who were extraordinary, too. David Stanley, who is Elvis Presley's brother, was there sharing his story and the story of Elvis and the opioids and that process and giving people hope that they can get to the other side of that, and his own depression and stuff he has been going through. The founder of Make-a-Wish Foundation talking about how he had PTSD early on in his career, and his partner who had taken his life. Because Frank Shankwitz dealt with it in a different way and found a solution for him, Make-a-Wish Foundation exists today, one of the most successful not-for-profits. That was another reason we wanted him there, to let people know that there is hope for people struggling, but also we wanted him to express that Journey's Dream might be at the beginning just like Make-a-Wish was after he was going through his recovery process and had the opportunity to do something pretty cool. These not-for-profit organizations can be run like real companies and provide real services, real value, create income streams that produce impact that is huge. Make-a-Wish is doing a few hundred million a year in their overall umbrella. That is the kind of organization we see building. A global organization that can have that impact. That is why we hired Hugh. If we are going to build a sustainable, real organization, we waned someone who has been there and done that. Hugh Ballou helps not-for-profits all over the planet to do and set up for success. If you have something that you really believe in and you have a passion behind it, trust yourself and hire the resources that are truly going to help you in your situation set up for success. Hugh: Thank you for that. I certainly have had enough rehearsal doing this. Mark and Mitzi, tell people where they can go to find out more information. Mitzi: You can go to our website, which is journeysdream.org. That would be the place to begin. Hugh: Journeysdream.org. What will people find there? Mitzi: They will find our website, which we are going through the process of making some changes to now as we have grown in the four months since we first launched the website. They will find a beginning of a practitioner's network. They will find the Optimal Being and other resources we are offering. There will also be a place for practitioners where we are inviting practitioners to join us if they see fit. There is a place for practitioners, and there is a place for family members or people who are struggling looking for solutions. They will see what solutions we have, and they will see the vision for what we have for our future. Hugh: Did you think when we were in your basement putting stickies on the boards that this would go here in this period of time? Mitzi: No, sir, I did not. Mark: One more thing. From a context standpoint, we have grown within a handful of weeks to over 600 followers on Facebook. If you go to the Journey's Dream page on Facebook and follow us, you will not only be getting things about Journey's Dream, but things about mental health and innovative approaches and solutions over time. Encourage people to do that as well. Hugh: What's next, Mark? What's next in your radar of accomplishments for 2018? Mark: In a week, December 4th, we are launching another Optimal Being program. Anyone who is interested in that, it's a 13-week program. You can go to the website under Educational Programs and click on Optimal Being. You can read more about it and sign up and register if you like. That's one thing. 2018 is going to be a year of automating that program so we can get it to a lower cost; forming additional partners and building out the practitioner network; and building a fund so that people who can't get the kinds of care that insurance doesn't cover that they can get some additional support in paying for those services. Some of those services that I have had the benefit of don't take insurance, so we want to educate people about those but also be good stewards of funds that come in so that part of those funds get allocated to address one of the biggest issues in mental health, which is it's really expensive to get the good care that is going to help someone navigate their own life to a healthy state of being. Hugh: Awesome. Journeysdream.org. There is resources now, and there is resources that are coming. The Facebook page is also called Journey's Dream? Mark: Yes. Hugh: Russell, what are you thinking? Russell: I am thinking I love what you're doing. It's wonderful. I'd like to say that I have looked at the website. There is something there for everyone who has been touched in some way with a diagnosis of a mental illness. Having to face that fear, there is a lot of fear, a lot of stigma around that. But it's important to connect with people who get it. Mark and Mitzi get it. If it's you, if it's a loved one, go to Journeysdream.org and get connected. Talk with somebody. Happy Giving Tuesday by the way. It is Giving Tuesday. Take a few minutes after this broadcast and go to that site and plug in. If you do nothing else, subscribe to the email list, get the information, and give it a listen because a lot of the things that can be seen as solutions here are not the conventional things. They are not the things people tell you, things like mindfulness. Some of this stuff might seem like it's touchy-feely, but it saves lives. Take a minute to consider something a little bit different than what you have been taught because your life's on the line. These are folks who have been there and they get it. It's facing that fear and knowing that yeah, there are some other solutions but they are only solutions if you take time to plug in and do it. Go to Facebook. Go to the web. Get plugged in. Make a donation. Sign up. This is a gift to give yourself and maybe a loved one for Giving Tuesday. That is my two cents. Again, thank you so much Mark and Mitzi for what you're doing here because you're saving lives. This is going to grow beyond anything you've ever imagined. Mark: Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Hugh. Mitzi: Thank you. Hugh: That is really good. I'd like to ask you to think about a closing thought. I'll ask Mitzi to go first, then Mark. As we wrap up here in this really good story that you guys have shared, Mitzi, what is your closing thought for our listeners? Mitzi: I guess I would like for everyone to challenge themselves when they see a homeless person or someone who looks different than them on the street or on the bus or in your community, don't make an assumption that you know anything about that person. They may have a Ph. D. My son had a degree in economics. Mark, who is brilliant. Extend compassion. Look them in the eyes as a fellow traveler who is sometimes on a challenging path. Offer some compassion. That would be my thought. It is something that has changed in me since Journey's experience, and I would love to see more of it. Hugh: Great. Thank you. Mark? Mark: If you could think of one person in your life who is struggling now or who has struggled in the past, I would say just reach out to them and give them the URL. Say this podcast, this Facebook live, it looked interesting. Let them know it exists. One of the things that I experienced early on is people don't know how to talk to people who are going through a challenge. We want to change that. We want to give them those tools. Whether it's a mother or a father or a son or a daughter or a friend or spouse, what is it we can do to support? One thing you can do is let them know you are thinking about them, whether it's saying Journeysdream.org website or Facebook page. That is not the point. The point is let them know you're thinking about them. Send them things that can be constructive, that could really help them. If they deny that they are able to be helped, they may not like it. But you know what? Someday they will remember it because all people can find a path to health and well-being. Allow yourself to be in the face of those experiences. Be the presence of love. We are all called to be. If someone does come at you and say, “Hey, you shouldn't have done this or that,” and they are triggered, recognize what is going on inside them, but do it from love, not because you want to heal them or get them better. Do it from love. As you think about them, think about what it is you could do to really be of service. Hugh: Awesome words. Awesome words. Russell, thanks for being here. It is such a consistent supporter. Mitzi, Mark, thank you for sharing your story. It has been powerful indeed. Mitzi: My pleasure. Mark: Thank you so much for having us. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How to buy or sell an online lifestyle business with expert broker Mark Daoust

Capital Gains - Capitalism.com

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2017 45:51

In 2006, a year after selling his first successful internet business, Mark Daoust was on the verge of going broke. No savings, no rainy day funds, nothing for retirement. Since successfully exiting his first venture, a content-based website called Site Reference, his next projects had not been working out and was hemorrhaging money. It was at this point, on the brink of pennilessness, that the sale of his friend’s web hosting business was closed - a deal he had brokered after the experience of selling his own company the previous year. With the commission he made from the sale, Mark went on to start Quiet Light Brokerage, Inc., a marketplace for buyers and sellers of internet businesses, which has conducted over $100million in business transactions over the last 10 years. Mark discusses the returns available to buyers of existing internet businesses, as well as the risk that comes with buying them. He also shares some very important guidelines for both buyers and sellers of online companies. Listen in for Marks’ stories and advice after his 10 years in the business. They include a lawsuit and some of his favorite deals that Quiet Light Brokerage has put together. Lessons learned in the early days When selling online businesses, finding buyers is the easy part, says Mark. Investors are always looking for new opportunities, so building up that side of Quiet Light Brokerage was less of a challenge. The more difficult part in the early days was preparing a business for sale. It’s an area that business owners looking to exit often don’t get right. This was one of the most important things Mark learned early on - understanding what motivates buyers to buy and what information they need to make an acquisition. Sellers are often very proud of the products and systems they have built and focus on these areas during the sale. However, buyers are interested in making a return on their investment and so the information sellers present needs to be shown through that lens. So Mark and his team set to work making more compelling cases for their clients. That meant showing more than a simple P&L statement. It meant monthly reports going back three years, dissecting the accounting and financial sides of the business. It also meant highlighting the growth potential and analyzing the threats that the company faced. And finally, it was about communicating what the asset was and why it was worth investing in. Online businesses are all cash flow based -- there is no physical asset that you can sell if the business fails -- and so presenting it correctly is vital. They also learned pretty quickly the processes needed for keeping clients’ information safe while providing proper access to potential buyers. Preparing to sell Mark breaks down the process of preparing a business for sale into four categories: Get into the buyer mindset -- buyers buy for ROI. This return comes in two parts: The financial return. Online businesses typically sell for multiples of 2.5-3.5 times earnings so buyers are looking at around a 33% annual return. The lifestyle associated with owning an internet-based business. Being able to work from home with a very light team is a big draw for investors. So when buyers are evaluating the ROI, what do they want to see? Firstly, they want to see that it is not a risky investment. Online businesses are inherently risky and buyers need to be aware of that, but from the seller’s perspective, it is about clearly identifying and mitigating areas of risk. What are the areas of risk? Are there any factors of dependency in terms of a technology or platform, e.g. is the business dependant on Google rankings or is it entirely based on Amazon? Changes to these platforms could have huge implications on the profitability of a company that is dependant upon them. Once these risks and dependencies are identified, the seller must come up with systems to mitigate those risks. Growth Buyers want growing businesses, not declining ones, so is it growing currently? Outside of that, what areas of future growth have not yet been explored? Using tangible, tested experiments and examples is much better than hypotheticals here. Transition How easy is it for the business to transition to a new owner? This often comes down to ‘key man’ dependencies -- if the success of the business is tied to a personal brand or a key partnership between the owner and a supplier, then that complicates the process of purchasing a business. Documentation Clean financial records and documentation of the business is the easiest area to control, and often the lowest hanging fruit for sellers to look at to increase the value of their business. What are you getting when you buy an online business? Most of what you’re buying is good will, says Mark. Often buyers will ask, ‘should I build this instead of buying it?’ In some cases, it does make more sense to build, but by purchasing an existing business, you are buying the brand, the reputation, the relationships and partnerships that come with it. You’re also buying all the decisions that went into getting it to where it is today. What worked and didn’t work along the way. And the systems and automation that has been built to run a lean online business. Generally the more staff a company has and the more systems and procedures that are in place, the higher the value is likely to be. It’s worth noting that the more staff members there are, the more friction is created in the transfer of ownership. And the more processes that are in place and well documented, the more attractive an acquisition is. What online business a good fit for you? Outside of the risks within the business you’re buying, is there anything you should know about yourself to identify what sort of business you should purchase? Firstly, it’s important to understand if you want to buy a big or a small online business. After his first exit, Mark bought two businesses for low five-figure sums and it became clear that the work he needed to put into them was not worth it for the money they were returning. So it’s important to match the scale of the acquisition with what is worth your time and effort. Secondly, know what your strengths are and invest in something where those strengths are an asset. For example, if you’re great at negotiating deals with vendors, look for an e-commerce company where that skill is valuable. Don’t enter the world of a software as a service company where you’ll have to become good at working with developers creating new product features, which may not be a skill you already have. Online businesses as passive income sources It’s true that many online business owners have created companies that create mid-six figure bottom lines that take just 10 hours of work per week to maintain. In Mark’s case, for instance, he was able to take his entire family out to Europe for a month while working remotely from his phone without impacting his businesses at all. Mark does stress that it takes a lot of work to get to that passive level, with a lot of automation, good people, and strong processes in place to allow it to run seamlessly. A buyer shouldn’t expect to be able to walk into an acquisition that is immediately passive and low maintenance, some ground work is always necessary. But it is possible to get there relatively quickly -- and doing that is all about systems and procedures. You can reach Mark and his team at www.quietlightbrokerage.com

How To Grow From 10 To 100 Employees

The Marketing Secrets Show

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 10, 2017 24:09

Behind the scenes of how we were able to profitably grow our company without taking on any capital. On this special episode with Brent Coppieters from Russell’s team, they talk about some behind the scenes things that need to be figured out while you are growing and scaling your company. Here are some of the cool things you will hear in this episode: How Brent has figured out how to structure teams with leads to make everything as efficient and smooth as possible. Why they hire Clickfunnels users to work on support teams in Clickfunnels. And why Russell wants everyone near him to max out their tax brackets. So listen here to find out some important behind the scenes things you have to think about when you’re in the process of growing your business. ---Transcript--- Hey everyone, this is Russell Brunson. I’m here today with Brent Coppieters on the Marketing Secrets podcast. So everyone, I got a really special podcast for you today, I’m so excited for. Right now, where are we at? Brent: Kauai Russell: Kauai, Hawaii. This has been our backyard for the last week, and we’re heading home tomorrow, which is kind of sad. But I wanted to get Brent in here to help you guys out. Because obviously in the Marketing Secrets podcast I talk a lot about the marketing stuff, and Brent has been with me now for over a decade. How long is it actually? Brent: Eleven years at the end of July. Russell: Eleven years, dang that’s crazy. So that’s when you started? Was anyone else here when you first got started officially? Brent: Anyone who’s here now? Russell: Brittany? Was she here? Brent: Brittany came in after. I don’t think anybody else who was here before I started is still here. Russell: So Brent’s been the longest, long term person, except Doral maybe. Doral in Romania. We got a Romanian. Our backlight is kind of lit, it’s hard to see us. Brent’s been around for forever and done tons of different roles. Right now he runs the entire operations of Clickfunnels so I wanted to have him kind of talk about the stuff because it’s a big part of growing and scaling a company that we don’t talk about a lot. But first do you want to talk about your back story, as far as getting into this whole thing. It’s kind of a funny story. Brent: How much back story do you want? Russell: We should move over here to the couch so you can see a little better. So I met Brent at church initially. Do you want a pillow? Brent: Yeah. Russell: That’s how planned these things are. What was one of the first impressions, about this whole business, when you got introduced to it? Because I know a lot of people got through that, especially spouses or friends or potential employees or partners that don’t know this world at all, it’s kind of weird at first. Brent: Yeah, I had no idea. I was at, met Russell through a church function and didn’t really know what he did. When I kind of thought he made money on the internet, I initially thought eBay, he sold stuff on eBay or you know, I had no idea. I really couldn’t understand. So he had some of the business partners and friends that he kind of worked with at the time and I kind of pulled those guys apart and was kind of asking those guys, “What does he really do?” and one of our mutual friends, he knew that I didn’t understand so I talked to my wife who said, “I don’t know what this Russell Brunson guy’s doing, but it is freaking crazy.” Our friend was sharing the numbers that Russell was doing. He was going to University, I was going to school as well. He was making more money than my parents combined income was, more money than they had ever made. So I was like, I gotta find out what this guy’s doing. So, like any friend, we invited him and wife over for dinner on a Sunday afternoon. So I just started asking him really carefully, “What are you doing? What exactly is this?” And he just kind of started sharing what he was up to, what he was doing. Obviously he doesn’t brag about what he’s doing, the success he was having and he was having tremendous success. After they left, we had a good dinner and visited and then they left. I couldn’t sleep for three days. My head was spinning. Russell: I ruined him. Brent: You did, I was screwed at that point. After that happened I couldn’t fathom the success. But what was more important there was the value he was providing the world. Russell: Was that before or after all our kids, we had twins and they had their first son the week before. I can’t remember if it was before or after. Brent: We had met you before, we’d been friends for a little while. I think that we had our kids and you guys moved right after that. Russell: All I remember is we had our twins we were in the NSU for two weeks basically. So we rented a hotel room in the hospital and just hung out there and goofed off, and I remember he was coming. “Don’t you have to go to work, or what are you doing?” He thought I was going to go… Brent: Yeah, I told my wife, “We gotta take dinners over there or something, we gotta help them because they’re in the hospital with these twins because they can’t leave and he can’t work because he’s in the hospital.” Russell: Little did they know the internet was working. Brent: I had no clue. Russell: So that was fun, so then a little while later, Brent started working for us. Initially it was affiliate management for how many years? You did that for a long time. Brent: Yeah, like 8,9 years, roughly. The hats were always being moved but… Russell: It’s a small company, you do a lot of everything. Brent: Yeah, so probably 8 years to really focus on business development, affiliate management and partners and stuff like that. Russell: And, just so everyone knows, I recently on the podcast had the presentation I gave from Funnel Hacking Live, the One Funnel Away, about the stories, and I talked about Brent in that and it made me cry in the middle of my presentation, it was kind of embarrassing. But you were here for the good and bad. When we went from 5 employees up to 100 and back down to 5 and all the stress up and down. I’m curious, honestly why you didn’t leave when everything collapsed and crashed. Brent: That’s a good question. Russell: I don’t know the answer either. Brent: You’re going to get me vulnerable. Working with an entrepreneur, especially Russell, you know where their heart is and there came a point where he was trying to help too many people. He was employing a lot of friends and family and people that he wanted to provide opportunities for and that was great to a certain point. But there was a point there where the business changed a little bit, evolved and we were needing to make some changes with it. And those changes wouldn’t allow him to support everyone he was supporting. That was very difficult for him. My wife and I, we cared and loved Russell and Collette and their family. We came to a point where I didn’t want to be a burden, I knew he was stressed and worried about taking care of people. I had a conversation with my wife, where I said I would rather keep our friendship, than have him feel stressed about supporting, having an opportunity for me to keep working there. So one day I kind of came into your office, and had a real chat. I probably said some things that, I wanted him to understand how important what he was doing was, and also I wanted him to understand that I was okay to leave. I didn’t want him to feel like he needed to provide for me. I would be fine to figure things out. I just wanted to make sure he was okay. Because it was at the point where you were helping so many people, really one hiccup you could have lost everything. All your savings was going back into the company and at some point you just can’t keep doing that. Russell: Yeah, I got really scared, but somehow we pulled it around. Brent: Pulled it around and obviously you had to make some tough phone calls and decisions that changed the company at that point. Russell: Basically we had to, we had 100 and some odd employees, we had all these wrestlers working for me, we had let go the whole wrestling team. We had to downsize. We shrunk from a 20,000 square foot building to 2000. It was rocky and scary but it gave us the ability to refocus and figure things out. Remember we went on a couple trips where we were trying to figure out who were the people still having success in our market. We jumped in a plane traveling to different people’s offices. We spent time with Ryan Dyson and Perry Belcher, trying to figure out what they were doing. With Alex Chafren, what they were doing. People who were our friends, just kind of used this time to figure out what’s actually working today and how do we shift our business model and change everything. It’s funny how much pain there was during that time. We flew to London. How important it was for the transition for what became Clickfunnels and everything else. Anyway, so many fun stories we could talk about forever. But we don’t have time for all those things. What I want to talk about a little today is, probably a year into the business when we first started growing, it’s funny I got a message today from Alex Chafren, he’s like, “You sound so calm.” Probably because we’re here in Hawaii but he was like, “I don’t know any other person running a hundred million dollar company that’s as relaxed and able to respond to people.” Anyway, when we first started, we didn’t know what we were doing. It was just kind of like, we know how to sell stuff. Started selling Clickfunnels, it started growing and all the sudden all sorts of new headaches came up with that. From a software standpoint with Todd and we brought in Ryan and they had to deal with infrastructure, ups and downs. I think based on ranking we’re the 700th most visited website in the world. But that’s not counting anyone’s custom domains. If you take away custom domains, we’re probably in the top 500 websites in the world. There’s not many humans on earth that have ever dealt with that kind of scaling and infrastructure. Todd had never done it, Ryan had never done it. They’re figuring this stuff along the way and we’re hiring consultants. On the marketing side we’re trying to grow and then all these things and as everything was growing one thing we didn’t have in place was any of the internal company business stuff. We were good sales people, good coders but we had to do that. It was funny because, you’d never had experience with that either though. Brent: Not really, no. Russell: We had this time where internally there were, everything was shaking and we said basically “Brent, we’re going to take you from affiliate management and you’re going to run this role.” And didn’t know what to expect, if it was going to work or not going to work. He was able to step into this thing and turned it really simplified. I’ve had zero stress about that part of the business since you took it over. From that time we went from 20 employees to I don’t even know where we’re at now. Brent: 135 or something. Employees and contractors, we got a few different folks. Russell: Lots of people. So I’d love to talk, first you step in that role and it was probably disorganized and stuff. What were your thoughts? What did you have to go and figure out? What’d you have to learn to be able to turn it into what it is now? Brent: I think the big thing is Russell’s vision for the company. We’d worked together long enough that I knew where he wanted to go. Even inherently just kind of knew. The big thing about Russell is his ability to surround himself with good people. That was the first part, evaluating who we have currently. Are they on the right seat on the bus, is a big part of that too. So we tested different things, and some things worked and some things didn’t work very well. We brought people and we started the phone stuff a little bit with the clickstart program and some of those guys were better than others and we’ve evolved that program. But the big thing about it is obviously support. We had, when you guys initially started hiring support team members, those guys were rock stars, and a lot of those guys are still with us today. They have evolved in their positions in the company because of their commitment and their love of Clickfunnels. I love when I get to interview and talk to people and when those individuals say, “I love Clickfunnels.” That is the coolest compliment that we can get. When get people that raise their hand, they want to work with us because they love Clickfunnels, they love the mission, they love the ability to help people. I think the biggest challenge was how do we grow with it? Because the marketing side, was growing so fast, it’s important that we’re providing and helping our users and helping them have the best experience possible. Also, Clickfunnels isn’t just some easy push button software. It is easy to use once you understand it, but there’s a lot of different parts of it and understanding marketing is a big part of it. So we needed to bring on people who could understand Clickfunnels, who understood marketing and also understood Russell’s style, the way you were taking everything. Russell: It’s crazy because I think when you took over the role of that, it wasn’t just support but that was a big piece of it, obviously. There’s probably what, a dozen support people at the time? Brent: Yeah, there was probably about 6 to 10. Well, probably 10. Russell: 10 at the time. You found a way to take that….it’s funny because one of the criticism sometimes of Clickfunnels is “Support’s not live all the time. Awebber’s live.” Awebber’s been growing for 20 years. They probably get 4 new signups a day. Clickfunnels right now, it’s been a while since I looked at the stats, but it’s anywhere from 500 to a thousand sign ups a day, every single day. Coming to Clickfunnels and trying to learn this huge platform that runs your entire company. How do we stay in front of that. Our goal eventually is to get to the point where it’s real time support or as close to that as possible. But there’s no one else in our space that’s ever had to deal with that. That have grown companies that fast. Most big companies like Strive don’t have any support at all because they’re like, we can’t therefore we don’t. We still need to have that support and education and stuff like that in place. I think what you did initially, I know that Ryan was a part of this. Ryan Montgomery helped set this up initially too. But just for those that don’t have support teams or maybe have three or four people and are starting to scale something, you kind of broke people into teams. Do you want to talk about some of that initial stuff that you guys did there to make the scaling side of support easier? Brent: Yeah, so we moved over to Intercom, that allowed us to do like live support. It wasn’t right live, but people could submit conversations and we’d respond to them and that’s what we used to start. We’ve grown, our response time, that’s how we kind of gauge our success, our response time. There’s a lot of software companies that offer live support, from 8-5. Ours is essentially turned on 24 hours, we’ve got team members all around the world. When we initially started we actually had an international team and we had more domestic teams, but as we realized, and continued to scale and grow, we had more and more people international. We’ve got international folks on every team. We’ve got domestic folks on every team. So they can kind of work that schedule out as needed. But as we came in we saw the amount of conversations we had, these guys are answering 8-9 thousand conversations a week, our support team. It is crazy. Our billing support is unreal. We’ve got a team of billing support team members and most of them are in our office. We’ve got a few individuals who aren’t. But the big part of it is having leadership being in those positions. So every support team we have has a team lead who is the person we reach out to and help with training and they now can pass the messages and training on to the other team members. Russell: So how many teams do we have right now? Brent: So technical support teams, we have 8 technical support teams. We have one billing support team. We’ve got one team that focuses on some other different partners we have and worked with in the past. We’ve got a team that helps with our Quickstart program, that’s a program people can signup with and it allows them to get some help on the initial setup and we’ve got a team lead that helps run that team. Russell: The thing that’s cool about this, for any of you guys who are scaling, in fact this is what happened at first when we were scaling. There was one person in charge and had 10 people underneath them and we were trying to grow and everything was growing and that person couldn’t handle any more growth. Because it’s hard to have more than 8 to 10 people you report to. You get bigger than that, it gets stressful and it’s really, really hard. So what Brent did, he came in and said, “Okay, the people we have that are rock stars, make each of those a team lead. And let’s put employees underneath each of those and the team lead can train the employees and make sure they’re doing good. And he’s only got to deal with the 8 or 10 team leads, deal with them and then they are dealing with the individual people. It gives us a communication channel to get through and now he’s not having 90 direct reports back to him. He just has the 8. Another cool thing we did recently, because the other big thing we have and some of you guys will have something similar with your businesses is, there was a competitor that has software that has pages that generate leads. Their software does one thing, there’s one button you can click and that’s it. It’s very, very simple. Clickfunnels is like, we’re building a landing page, your funnel, your shopping cart, your affiliate platform, your auto-responders, there’s 8 thousand things. For us, we can’t just hire someone in Boise, Idaho and be like, “Hey, now you’re a support person for Clickfunnels.” There’s such a learning curve they have to understand to be able to do that. So a couple of things, number one is that most of our hires come from people that are members of our software, which is a big thing for you guys to think through. In inner circle this comes up all the time. Where do I find rock stars? I guarantee the rock star you’re dreaming for is already a customer of your product right now. Look at your internal customer base for your rock stars, because they’re going to know your product, be passionate, they’re going to care more than someone you pull off the street. That’s number one. Number two is we needed, how do we train these people? I think initially each team lead just trained their people, and they were getting bogged down in the training and not being able to support and manage and stuff like that. So we talked about a new team that’s the training team, right? Brent: Well a big part of this that helped, Mark came up and helping work, he does a lot more direct work with the team leads. Russell: You guys know Mark Bangerter, he’s killing it, he’s awesome. Brent: You know he still kind of balances customer education and he helps with support management. So Mark came in and we had the idea, we brought new people on and initially they would slow down the rest of the team. So we pulled another team lead out, we pulled out Andrew Newman, and now his focus is just training. So as we bring new team members on, he’s focusing on those guys. As we look at, he doesn’t have anybody currently to teach, he’s reaching out to people who have been on the team and maybe lack knowledge about Backpack or Actionetics, and then he’s pulling those guys out and he’s doing training with those guys so that we can get everybody up to the same level. Russell: That’s cool. We did something like that back when we had our big call center before the big crash of what year was that? Crash or 08, crash of 09. Because we had 60 sales guys and the problem is the same thing. We’d hire sales guys off the street and someone’s gotta train them, so we had a training team. So every sales guy would come in and go through a two week training with Robbie Summers was the one that managed that and then the ones that were good we’d then put them on the floor under another team. And the ones that sucked, we’d just get rid of them. And that’s kind of the same thought here. Let’s bring people in and have someone who’s dedicated to training them and when they’re ready, then put them on a team so they can start running with it. Everybody’s opposed to pulling people back. It’s just crazy all these, these are all the things we’re learning as we’re growing and scaling. Someday we’re going to write a book about this whole journey and this whole experience, because I think a lot of times companies are built like, there’s a dude with an idea, they hire venture capitalists and bring in a management team, all this stuff and build a company. Whereas with us it was like raw passion and that’s what’s grown this whole thing and kept it afloat. It’s been a fun ride so far. Brent: It’s been an unbelievable ride. Russell: So I appreciate all your work and help and everything you do. Hopefully this gives some of you guys ideas as your growing your support teams or development team or management or whatever those things are. If you look at also, I had someone, it was Andrew Warner from Mixer the other day, he interviewed me, he’s like, “How are you able to write books and run a software company and do coaching and all these different things?” And the same thing is kind of what Brent mentioned earlier, I’ve gotten really good at surrounding myself with amazing people. Where I feel like it’s almost like there’s parts of the company that people are running. You’re running all the operational stuff, I don’t have to worry about that, the hiring and firing, the finding other people. Brent does that. So I just talk to Brent and then all the people stuff is taken care of. Todd and Ryan run the development team, Todd’s running it. I talk to Todd all the time, but it’s just happening and I don’t have to stress about that. I’m kind of running the marketing team. Dave’s running, there’s john, there’s probably 5 or 6 people that I deal with directly inside the company and I’m able to do the parts that I love the most, that I’m the best at. And I think a lot of us entrepreneurs and most of the people in those positions all get profit share and equity in the company and I think one of the big mistakes I made when I first got started was I was so protective, this is my, I wanted so much control over everything that I stifled everything. Whereas when I was able to give up control and bring in rock stars and people that have skill sets that I don’t and now, because they have a stake in the game, I don’t have to worry about everything, every decision, every single thing. I trust Brent. He makes a thousand decisions a day that I never even questioned or think about because I trust him. Same thing with Todd, they know they do that because they’re willing and able to do that. So I think a lot of you guys, if you’re struggling with growth, you don’t have the ideas, you’re not going to bring on venture capitalists and destroy your soul and you want to grow something. The opposite of that is bring on really smart people and give them a stake in the game. It’s kind of like Chet Holmes used to tell me, he said that in his company, everyone was based on a percentage of sales, there was no salary based people. He said what’s cool about that is that big months everyone gets big checks, small months everyone gets small checks but everyone’s in it together. I think that building teams that way is better than bringing in a bunch of money and hiring the right people, or hiring the best people. It’s hiring the right people and giving them incentive to where they can grow and do whatever they want. In fact, I’m going to share one thing. This is cool. Am I allowed to share this, I probably can. This was, we had these accountants, most marketers don’t like accountants, but we had these accountants and every year I’d have to go the accounting meeting and then they would always talk about all the stuff to do to try to lower your, anyway, it was super annoying. It was the worst meeting of my year, I would lose all motivation and momentum for an entire week because I was so stressed out. I remember driving home from one of those so pissed off at the accountants for trying to ruin my happiness in life. And I remember in this podcast, I have to go find it, but I was like, “My goal is I want, not only am I going to max out my tax bracket but I’m going to have everyone I know around me, all my partners, all the people that are pushing this, I want to max out their tax bracket as well.” We were talking about this earlier on this trip here in Hawaii, there’s probably half a dozen people or so on our team now, that have maxed out their tax bracket because of this whole concept that we’re talking about. That is the coolest feeling in the entire world. Brent: It’s pretty awesome. Russell: It’s pretty amazing. So there you go, Uncle Sam, there you go. Anyway, that’s all I got. You have anything else you want to add? Brent: No, I just think, you said unbelievable, it truly is every day. How cool is it to be able to come and work with friends and good people that, it’s just a positive place. Our company culture is a big deal and you drive that and it’s been really fun to see people come into our office or just come into our business, our space and feel that, and even those who just work remote, we’ve got a lot of team members that work remote, most of them are. And it can be kind of a lonely road out there, but we do things to try to help them feel the love. Russell will send swag to people and just unexpected things that make people feel the love and help them know we appreciate them and that’s a big deal. Russell: So here’s a question, for those who may want to join Clickfunnels team, how do they? Brent: We have a link on Clickfunnels, at the bottom of Clickfunnels under Careers, but we’re always looking. If someone out there is passionate, you want to be able to find a place with us, hit me up. You can hit me up on Facebook, email, brent@clickfunnels.com, send me an email. I can direct you where to go, we have application up. Russell: That’s awesome. Thanks man. So that’s a little behind the scenes of how the HR, the growth, the internal stuff, what we’re doing and how we’re doing it. Again, we’re just learning all this stuff along the way. Someday we’re going to write a book about it when it’s all done. Because the lessons we’ve learned along the way have been cool. So hopefully this gave you guys a couple of ideas and things as you’re growing and scaling your teams, and that’s all I got. Thanks everybody. Thanks Brent. Brent: Absolutely. Thanks guys. Russell: Bye.

How To Grow From 10 To 100 Employees

Marketing Secrets (2017)

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 10, 2017 24:09

411: Passive income working 2 hours a week? Fact or Fiction?

The Nice Guys on Business

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 30, 2017 39:46

Reach Us Here: Doug- @DJDoug Strickland- @NiceGuyonBiz The Land Geek On Facebook: The Nice Guys Community page Become a patron and support the podcast at www.Patreon.com/NiceGuys Show Notes by Production Assistant - Anna Nygren Mark Podolsky knows how to create passive income, hear more on The Nice Guys today. Intro Go ahead Patreon, make my day His company is titled The Land Geek, but I just see him/them as a geek...period. He has a fun podcast called The Art of Passive Income, it's all relative. If you think passive income can be fun, and who doesn't like to make money when they are sleeping, you have come to the right Nice Guys episode Mark Podolsky, welcome to the Nice Guys on Business. By the way Marky Mark and the Fun Bunch and Dougie Fresh are nerds to the nth degree. So Mark, we've never had a passive income expert on the show….do share what is your tool? Although that is your vehicle, you dive deep into many models. Share what you love about what you do? You've got some great tech tips….as any geek would have, what's your fave technology Mark You did this very cool episode on pet peeves https://www.thelandgeek.com/category/podcasts/ What Marky Mark are some of your peeves brother Send an email directly to mark@thelandgeek.com with subject line "Nice Guys Podcast" and get a $97 startup kit FREE from him www.thelandgeek.com Text “NiceGuys” to 31996 for bonus material and to be entered to win a FunkNfans T-Shirt every week. Proud to be affiliated with the C-Suite Radio Network and the Greatness Podcast Network Doug and Strickland's Stuff: Amazon #1 Best selling book Nice Guys Finish First. Business Building Bootcamp (10 Module Course) Need Podcast Production? www.podcastproduction4you.com Partner Links: Amazon.com: Click before buying anything. Help support the podcast. Sign up for Sanebox free and get a $10.00 credit on us: The best way to get a handle on your E-Mail. Interview Valet: Get interviewed on top podcasts and share your message. Acuity Scheduling: Stop wasting time going back and forth scheduling appointments Survey: Take our short survey so The Nice Guys know what you like. Nice Guys Links Subscribe to the Podcast Niceguysonbusiness.com You can text Doug anytime at 410-340-6861, of if you just want to leave us a message or record an intro to the show, call 4242 DJ DOUG (1-424-253-3684) Promise Statement: To provide a learning experience that adds value to your life. Don't underestimate the Power of Nice.

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EP 6: Mark Light, #EmmeSmiles, & The Pancreatitis Foundation

Edge of Indy

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 6, 2017 36:21

Mark Light is the Co-founder and President of The Pancreatitis Foundation, a non-profit organization who's mission is to provide funding to advance research leading to a cure for pancreatic disease and provide support for patients and their families. Mark joined us on the podcast to discuss the work he is doing with the foundation as well as the #EmmeSmiles fundraising campaign. Emily (Emme) Theisen, a 4-year-old from Noblesville, who is battling pancreatitis, a rare condition for a child of that age. Last week, Emme underwent a surgery at the Cincinnati Children's Hospital to remove her pancreas to help relieve the pain. So Mark, and his foundation, have partnered with the Theisen family to help cover some of the medical costs. One of the most recent fundraising efforts was Mark's cross-country bike ride that raised about $30,000 to help support the Theisens. If you would like to donate to the cause, please visit their website.

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The Q - Ep. 296 - Alternative Facts

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 23, 2017 88:33

Well He's the Preident now and with that starts the reign of Donald Trump. And right off the bat, Trump sent new White house Press Secretary Sean Spicer out to let the media know, "We don't like you!" All because the world showed pictures of the small turnout for the inauguration of Trump. Welp, that's kinda life and reality can be tough to swallow sometimes. But it didn't stop there....The next day on Meet the Press, Chuck Todd pushed the issue of why Sean Spicer went out to everyone the previous day and lied about the pictures from a point of spite it seemed like. Kellyanne Conway decided to put the breaks on and stated that Spicer had uttered some "Alternative Facts" which is just another phrase for LYING. So Mark and Jason along with Steph on the board, decided to delve in this week and discuss the Alternative facts. As well as an Alternative Universe we seem to be in now.

Como falo em inglês: Ele tem pavio curto

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 7, 2016 3:50

Hey, everyone! Hoje eu falo sobre alguns idioms em inglês com a palavra temper, incluindo uma expressão para "pavio curto". Transcrição Hey, everyone. You're listening to the new episode of the Inglês Online podcast, and today we look into idioms with the word temper. Mark Please download our Android app or leave a comment about this podcast at the iTunes store. Thank you very much and enjoy the podcast! So let's get started today with the term short temper. If someone's got a short temper, that means they have a tendency to become angry very easily and very quickly. Most people know someone like that, right? Let's say Mark is someone who has a short temper. By the way, we can say short fuse as well. Same thing. So Mark has a short fuse and can be easily provoked into having fights and arguments with people. He frequently gets into trouble for not being able to control his temper. His friends have advised him to learn to hold his temper in order to avoid getting in trouble. But here's a... like, here's a valid question: how can people with a short fuse hold their temper, though? Do you know anyone who used to have a short fuse in the past and has now learned how to hold their temper? Like, they have actually changed their behaviour and are now able to keep their cool in situations where before they would definitely have lost their temper. Do you know anyone like that? It's certainly possible to change - some people do anger management treatments, others seek a hypnotherapist to get their temper under control. Let's go back to Mark, the guy who frequently loses his temper. Mark has a short temper, or a short fuse. One day he was having lunch in the company cafeteria and his colleague accidentally spilled some tomato sauce on his shirt. Mark was fuming! He totally lost his temper over the spilt sauce on his shirt. He screamed at his colleague, punched the table and said his shirt had been ruined. He made a big scene while his colleague tried to apologise. And that wasn't the first time Mark had lost his temper. One day he was in a meeting where he and his peers were discussing their strategy for the coming semester. Someone disagreed with Mark and, unfortunately, again, his short fuse got the better of him. Mark wasn't able to hold his temper and he and his colleague got into a heated argument that lasted almost twenty minutes! So I guess you can get the meaning of "hold his temper", right? When somebody can hold their temper, that means they can keep calm, they can keep their cool even in face of disagreement or any unwanted situation, really. What really made Mark lose his temper was the fact that the other guy criticized a decision Mark had made about a month before. His decision did not produce the good results he was expecting, and apparently he's touchy about it... So when his colleague brought that up, Mark just lost it. His short temper definitely got the better of him and things got very heated. So one day Mark's boss finally had a serious conversation with him about his conduct and gave him an ultimatum. He said "Mark, we expect you to get a hold of yourself and Tina from Human Resources will advise you on some anger management programs that you're welcome to join. You need to learn to hold your temper and control your short fuse." Tell me - do you know anyone who has a really short fuse? Are you able to hold your temper in most situations? Let us know in the comments, and talk to you next time! Key expressions a short temper / a short fuse / a quick temper hold one's temper lose one's temper Vocabulary fuming = morrendo de raiva to make a scene = "dar um show" no sentido de ter uma reação desagradável que chama atenção em público got the better of him = passou a controlar seu comportamento about a month = mais ou menos um mês to lose it = perder a calma completamente, explodir get a hold of yourself = se controlar emocionalmente

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Como falo em inglês: Ele tem pavio curto

The LanternCast: A Green Lantern Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 7, 2016 3:50

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LanternCast - 2016 Special Report - Episode #01!

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 26, 2016 72:09

DC recently, kinda, announced a new relaunch event for the summer called 'Rebirth'. So Mark and Chad went into breaking news mode and pulled up a couple of mics to discuss what this news means for the DC Universe and Green Lantern in particular! Listen in! Please visit our site at http://www.LanternCast.com

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Podcast: Long story short

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2015 5:34

Hey, all. Neste episódio, eu falo sobre dois idioms comuníssimos com a palavra story. Explico também o verbo to whine, que é usado para descrever alguém que está reclamando assim... meio choramingando. Transcrição Hey, all. This is the new episode of the Inglesonline podcast. Please subscribe to this podcast using the Podcasts app for iPhone or iPad, or listen to the episodes using the Inglesonline Android app. Thanks for all the comments at the iTunes store and if you haven't yet left a comment for this podcast please do so: the more comments for the Inglesonline podcast, the more people will find out about it and listen to the episodes. Thanks for telling your friends, your neighbours, your family and keep listening. Today we're going to open our episode with an expression that you can use when you feel like whining about something. Whining - first of all, what does "whining" mean? To whine, w-h-i-n-e, means to complain, but... in sort of a childish way, in a bit of an annoying way. Can you picture that? Picture someone - maybe you - complaining in a way that reminds you of a spoiled or bratty child. Imagine that it's an adult doing it. A good way to describe that would be "This guy or this woman is whining... about something." In movies or TV shows it is common to hear someone say "Quit whining" when someone else is going on and on complaining about something. So imagine your friend Mary is whining about how she bought a beautiful shirt last week, and today that same shirt went on sale! Twenty percent off. Mary says it's the second time this has happened to her, and then you say "Oh, story of my life. Last year I bought three jackets at my favourite shop and the next week they were 40 percent off." So when you say "story of my life" what you're saying is, that thing your friend just mentioned is something that is typical in your life. Of course, it's usually an exaggeration - it's not like that happens every day. It's a way to sympathise with the other person, though... So we use it when we're talking about something unfortunate. Let's say you're waiting in line to pay a bill at the bank and you start to chat with the person in front of you. You're telling her it took you twenty minutes to find a parking spot for your car. She replies "Story of my life." She's saying the same thing happens with her all the time. And check out this one: to make a long story short. You use this one when you're telling someone what happened, for example, but you don't wanna go through every single detail so you're just going to give them the basic facts. A short, summarised version of the story. I'm not sure we have a similar expression in Brazil - what do you think? Maybe "Bom, pra resumir..." but I'm not a hundred percent sure. We sometimes say "pra resumir" when we're reaching the final part of our story so it's not really the same meaning. Let's say you bump into a colleague in the office - Mark. So you haven't seen Mark in three days, which is highly unusual. You're used to seeing Mark all the time when he comes to speak to your boss like, two or three times a day. So when you see Mark after three days, you say "Hey, Mark. Haven't seen you in a while. What's up?" And Mark goes "Long story short, this may be the last time I see you. I'm being transferred to our office overseas. Sorry, I have to go now but I'll see you tonight at happy hour". So Mark didn't get into the details; he didn't even really explain why he wasn't in the office for three days. He just gave you the short version: he's being transferred overseas so maybe today is the last time you guys see each other. He'll probably tell you more at happy hour. In my opinion, this idiom is very applicable in daily life. Very often, it is impossible to tell everyone you run into every single detail of what's going on in your life. And, you may not want to be talking about the same thing again and again, especially when the details are not very pleasant. So, for example,

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Podcast: Long story short