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‍‍Hey guys, welcome to this week's MMM! This week, we're getting back to SEO (Search Engine Optimization), covering both on-page and off-page strategies, with our expert guest, Brandie Lamprou! We explore the fundamentals of SEO, including the importance of word count, choosing the right keyword focus, utilizing internal linking effectively, crafting compelling meta descriptions, and creating SEO-friendly titles. Whether you're a beginner looking to start your SEO journey or a seasoned practice owner seeking to refine your strategies, this episode will help you start on the right foot with a strong SEO plan, improving your website's visibility in search engine results!Jump into this episode with Brandie Lamprou to get up to speed on tried and true SEO strategies!‍You can reach out to Brandie Lamprou here:Website: https://gargle.com/Email: brandielamprou@gargle.com‍Other Mentions and Links:YelpYellow PagesGoogle My BusinessSERP - Search Engine Results Page‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Brandy. So talk to us about s e o. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through s e o? Brandie: S e o has been around for at least 22, 23 years and his. It changed a lot over the years, but there are certain pieces of SEO o foundational components of SEO that are still very applicable today.Foundational, s e o is not dead, even with all of the local pack and maps and using SER and using other tools. Foundational seo, which is on page seo. An off page s e o is still very, very relevant and very necessary in every dental practice website. And so, I think I just wanna touch on those components and make sure that people understand how SEO O works.In the search engines as well as what OnPage and off-page s e o technically is. Uh, I know it can kind of seem intimidating, but it is just a series of components that we wanna make sure are visible and implemented on every page of a dental website as well as the external pieces On the internet and being found more consistently in the organic search positioning on Google.So when you're looking at Google, the search results are kind of broken out into chunks for you. The very first thing you normally see is all of your pay-per clicks and your ads. For people who are running keyword, Google Ads. The next section is generally your local pack or your Google Maps, which come up, um, with the map next to it.And that has your positioning there is based on, uh, not only content of your Google My Business, the verification of your Google My Business, but also the consistency of your listings on the internet. Consistently making sure your Google My Business profiles are updated with your hours and services.so that is your local pack, and then you have your organic search results, and that's really where SEO comes in. Traditional foundational SEO comes in in those organic search positions. So. four on page s e o. Every single page of a dental website that you, you are SEOing for, needs to have about 650 to 1200 words.So 650 is your minimum word count for a good nice Google crawl to index that keyword. Focus for the page and Raise you in your positioning. So you do wanna have a minimum of 650 words. You also, obviously those words have a keyword focus, so you determine that when you're writing the content for an s e o page and that keyword content, the keyword itself will be present in the title of the page, usually the URL of the page, and within the text body.But the foundational s e o components have to do with your S e O title and your meta description. The SEO title is generally the title of the page. And so when you do go onto Google and you do a query the, and your organic search results come up, that very first line that you see in bold on Google, that is your SEO title, so it's very important to.Make sure that that title contains your keyword focus. You also want that keyword present in the first paragraph of the page, but then also in the meta description on the page, meta descriptions are very, very important because meta descriptions tell Google what that page is really about. It's also what's crawled to get the, uh, snippets that are featured on Google, so that, uh, SEO title, your meta description, having the keyword focus clearly presented in the backend of the website.Those are all key components to foundational, s e o and getting you index for the keyword you are going for on that particular page. those are really the, the, uh, foundational pieces of on-page s e o. You also wanna do some internal linking, which means you're taking keywords from other places within your website and you're linking them to the page.You're SEOing so that there's internal linking, going back and forth out of your page to another page of the website and from another page of the website into the page. It keeps people also on your website longer. Which helps, helps as far as your bounce rates and things like that, but it also shows Google that you have more than just this one page, on this particular topic.When you're linking it to another page that mentions that topic that content strategy of internal linking becomes much easier as you get into what's called clustered content for SEO purposes, and that's when you have multiple pages. Focusing on a search term keyword focus. Example being dental implants.The first page that we create is dental implants, but then we may create five, six other pages that relate in some way to the core page of dental implants, such as, Make a page for all on fours implants that then links back to your core implant page. Make a page for denture supported implants.link back to your dental implant page so that you end up with clustered content. And that's really a great content management strategy for showing Google that your site is a real resource for dental implants. Now with all these keywords, You always want to, uh, add your local tag to it.So you want, you know what, d as dentists, what we're all looking for is local targeted traffic. So you want to add your city name before and after your keyword or within your keyword phrase. That's gonna really help you get, be found using the geolocator that, that Google has, as well as the content on your website, SEO Together.Michael: Okay. Gotcha. Okay. That's interesting. Okay, so this is all on page, right? Brandie: That's all on page, yeah. Okay. Okay. I know it's just one step. So the other, uh, side of that is your off page seo. That's everything that happens on the internet outside of your website. So one of the best strategies that you can, uh, implement when it comes to that is, Backlink strategy.we, as a part of our gargle s e o product, we actually do order backlinks based on the keyword that we're focusing on for our clients. Which means that a blog is written on another applicable or relatable website that links back to our client's website as a resource for that particular keyword.So the more. External links you have on the internet pointing to your website that actually makes Google, let's Google know that you have authority or you have knowledge and, and are a legitimate resource for that keyword term. and you want them to be reputable websites that are linking to you because there is a way of scoring the domain authority from the outside website into your website as far as relevance on the topic.So that is called backlinking. And then we also utilize off page SEO with referrers. So when you do belong to directories, let's use directories as an external link or refer, uh, back to you when you are in a health grades or even Yelp, even um, you know, local directories, yellow pages, all of those things.Anytime you have a link on those profiles that are pointing back to your website, that is helping you get those back links and get refers that point to your website. So the more links that you have going into your website, the better off you're gonna be in your long-term s e O strategy. At your off page seo.Michael: Okay. Okay, so that's off page seo. Is there another thing for off-page SEO or those two things? Well, you know, Brandie: going back again to like Google My Biz, your Google My Business profiles and the local pack, like all of those are still off page because they're outside of the realm of your website, but they definitely work.For your overall S E O, when the Google algorithm is crawling, it's looking for consistency in all of those pieces. Michael: Gotcha. Now, if the on page is not on point, but you're str striving to make like the back linking work, right? And all that stuff, Are we gonna clash here? Is there gonna be like a thing or, Brandie: yeah.on page that, that foundational fundamental, s e o of, you know, your word count and representing your keyword focus clearly, your meta description, all of that stuff. If that is not on point, anything else you're doing is not gonna work. Mm-hmm. So you really need to start there. You really need to start there.There are people that have the ability to, uh, rank quite high on local pack just by finessing their Google My Business and their other listings on the internet. But with, without consistent posting to that Google my business, you end up losing some traction. So what you really do want is, a nice s e o strategy that combines those components.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So first and foremost, if we're, if listeners listening, they're like, okay, you know what I mean? I need to, I'm on number 10 or page seven or something. First. Look into the on page, right? Yes. Fix that as much as possible. Get it honed in, and then the off page is where we can start working on, yes.Brandie: Yes. I would always start at the core, your website is your 24 7 calling card, so. Even s e o aside, if your website isn't dialed in and you're not focusing on that presence and giving it some love, And making it really a part of your brand and making your website work for you, not you work for your website.That would be step one. Step two is then focusing on your content, on your on-page SEO specifically. Making sure you just have that little checklist, the fundamentals, you know, your word count, your keyword, focus your s e o title, your meta description, and internal linking. Those five pieces Are gonna dial you in to where you'll be able to grow your website and not cannibalize on search terms and internally link and get more opportunities for back linking if you're focusing on that on page, in my opinion. Michael: Nice, nice. Awesome, Brandy, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly?Brandie: You can go to gargle.com we have a demo form there that you can fill out and it'll get to me Also, my email address is brandy, b r a n d i e, dot LoPro, l a m p r o u gargle.com, shoot me an email and hopefully I can answer your question. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below so you can reach out to Brandy.And Brandy. Thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Brandie: Thank you.‍

Eric is giving all of our listeners a 30 Day Free Trial! Just type in the coupon code "TDM" at the end of onboarding and you'll receive this exclusive offer!Click this link to get started! https://www.joinordo.com/‍‍Guest: Eric AppelsiesBusiness Name: OrdoCheck out Eric's Media:‍Website: https://www.joinordo.com/Email: eric@joinordo.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:HPSP ScholarshipBank of AmericaWells FargoInvisalignHenry ScheinDarbyNet 32Open DentalGoogle AdsPositioning - Jack Trout and Al Ries‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Acquiring an already established practice can be tough when it comes to updating systems and processes!When hiring, be sure to utilize your internal team members and their connections.Try to hone in on 1 or 2 marketing tactics rather than all of them at once.Always have great communication and expectations set with your marketing team.Having an identifier on your phone calls for new and existing patients will streamline your patient acquisition.When ground marketing, make sure you attend the events your target demographic will be at!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guest, Dr. Eric Apsey. Eric, how's it going, Eric: man? Doing well. How are you doing? Pretty Michael: good. Pretty good. If you don't mind me asking, Eric: where are you located? I am in Denver, actually, in like the suburbs. Michael: Okay, nice, nice. It's gonna be good weather out there for here for like the rest of the Eric: summer or?Yeah, I think we've heard it's supposed to be, I've read something that was supposed to be hot, but also pretty wet, so it's been a weird, we actually had a pretty, our winters are normally pretty mild. I've been out here like maybe five, six years. This last winter was a rougher winter in terms of snow, and it's been a little bit yeah, it's been a little bit wetter of a spring too than normal, which, you know, like everyone says, you know, you could always use rain, right?I feel like that's what everyone always says, but yeah, I mean, it's normally. Pretty dry here, so it's not a bad thing. So, yeah. Michael: Oh, okay, man. Awesome. So let's jump into it. Let's, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions, all right. Mainly based off of your marketing. So number one, could you briefly introduce your dental practice and the demographic you primarily Eric: serve?Yeah, so I actually, I have two dental practices in Denver. One's in like the kind of south metro area. One's in like the North Metro area, so maybe 30 miles or so apart. Both of them are de Novo offices. The one down south opened in 2017, the one up north in 2019. And the demographics that we primarily serve at the one down south it's a little bit more of an established community.So we see. More adults, empty nesters, not quite as many children. And then up at the north location that's more of a growing and emerging kind of area. Lots of new builds and stuff like that. So we're seeing a lot of younger families there too. So we tend, we tend to see more kids in kind of family age at that location.How Michael: far apart are they normally? Eric: Like those practices? Yeah, about thir, about 30 miles. So, I mean, it takes, depends on traffic, right? But yeah, it can take anywhere, say around 30, 35 minutes apart. Michael: Was that always the goal for you? Like, I want two practices, or was it, I it just started happening.Eric: Yeah, I mean initially, so my, my little backstory, my wife is also a dentist, right? We met in dental school and everything and we always kind of wanted to have at least a couple offices. we love the dentistry part too, but we also like the idea of building our own stuff as well and being able to like create our own vision with our dental practices.So we always knew we kind of wanted multiple ones. And then, I mean, one nice thing is my wife actually was the one that kind of started up. The one down south and was kind of the main driver in there, was the one up north. I was too. So, I mean, kinda the reason we were able to do two is there's just two of us, right?Mm-hmm. So we were able to kind of divide and conquer. So, yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha, Michael: gotcha. so for you, was that always the goal? Like, I wanna do my own practice? Eric: Yeah. I mean, so my journey was after I graduated dental school 2013. Right. And then I ended up doing like a scholarship with the Navy, like the H P S P scholarship.And was in the Navy for four years until 2017. During that time my wife and I had actually bought kind of an old Practice from, you know, an old dentist that really wasn't doing much and kind of fix and flip that. So we had done an acquisition when I was in the military and then from that experience we had said, you know, there were a lot of, there's a lot of challenges with buying a practice that doesn't have like good systems in place and you're just getting it kind of just cheap.So that kind of made us realize, hey, maybe if when we do this again, cause we weren't gonna stay in California where I was stationed, let's look in doing our own thing and doing it from scratch so we can kind of like, you know, create our own vision. Michael: Gotcha. Shit. What challenges were there that you can just think of right now where it's like, man, I don't know, like for acquisitions, if somebody's like, Hey man, I wanna do an acquisition, the first things you wanna let them know Eric: is what, My only experience is buying a practice. So like it was, I think the practice was doing maybe like $360,000, right? It was an old dentist who needed to retire for, you know, certain medical reasons. And so that's my only experience there. So I don't really have any experience if it was like a, you know, a 2 million practice or a really, you know, well ran practice.But from that, The one pro was, yeah, it was really inexpensive to buy. So like going out and getting a bank loan from B of A or Wells Fargo was pretty easy. Right. But it comes with a lot of challenges. Cause you know, obviously with the practice not being that strong of an office. From a production standpoint, made it challenging, more challenging with staff, right?When you wanna put your processes in place. They'd been there for 30 years, right? So we had a lot of challenges. The dentist wasn't honestly the greatest to transition with. There were challenges there too. So even though sometimes I think if you were doing an acquisition and you were trying to do something like we were, where it's like, Hey, I'll buy a practice that's like a cheap practice that looks like it's a gem, right?A lot of times there's a reason that it's a cheaper practice to buy and it wasn't doing well. So, I mean, there, yeah, there were a lot of challenges. So that, that, like, from that, I would say that's You can go into it and do it. Just don't expect, just because it was cheap that it's gonna be like easy at all.It's gonna have a lot of challenges with it as well. Michael: Yeah, I always hear it's like the team where it's like really hard to bring them on board and stuff like that. Eric: Yeah, definitely. Just because like I said, so the other challenge is we did that when, what my wife and I were like, Late twenties. Right. So, you know, and the, the, the team that was all there were in their fifties.Right. So it was a challenge. It, it is a challenge when you're trying to transition from a dentist who's older, had been there forever, the team has been there forever. And then, you know, the new owners or new doctors come in and they're the age of like, That those team members' children, right. So mm-hmm.It was very challenging to get them on board and get that level of respect. that was probably a big challenger. Right? Yeah, Michael: no, definitely, definitely. I get you. Okay, so then number two, in which category would you place your practice? Was it urban, suburban, rural, D s L, private practice, solo, docker, et cetera?Eric: So let's just start the one down south. So that's in a, it's in a suburb area, right? A pretty well established suburb area. It's private practice, right? Cause my, my wife and I own it. There, we have one associate dentist there right now, and a couple hygienists. It's mainly a general, it's a general practice.All the docs that work there are general dentists, but our associate is great with, you know, kind of being a. The super general dentist, right? Like mm-hmm. Enjoys doing third molar extractions, sedation some root canals adult ortho or aligners. All that kind of stuff.So it does help us that we brought on associates who like to do a lot more than I guess what you would typically say a general dentist would do. And then the other location up north. I'm working there. I have another associate doctor that works there as well. Same thing, private practice. And kind of suburb area, but like a growing suburb area.So like a lot of residential, but not really a lot of commercial spaces there yet. So that, that's been really, I'm, I'm glad we kind of made that decision where we picked that location. It's, it's worked out well. And same thing he likes to do, you know, he had gotten the G P R, so he got extra training, which was great.So when we brought him on, he already was comfortable with, you know, all extractions, third molars, sedation, kind of the same stuff as the associate that we have down south. Gotcha. Okay. Michael: Well, how did you find your Eric: associates? kind of a good story. So, the first associate we had just kind of put an ad out, right?And he had reached out to us that he was graduating from his G P R and was moving out to Denver. So, met him, had a, you know, great interview, brought him on, and then my office up north had been growing a lot and this was probably 2021, beginning of 2022. My practice up north was growing a lot and just to expand services and do some of the things that I didn't do as a dentist, I wanted to bring an associate on too that had a wider scope of what they wanted to do.And so my associate down south. he had a friend from dental school who was finishing who was actually working out here had finished his G P R at the same time as that associate down there. Was working a job and just really wasn't that happy. And so it was kind of like an, like a, I didn't have to do any marketing or I didn't have to go through LinkedIn or reach out to people because we had a good relationship with this associate down south.He pretty much said, Hey, I have a buddy who is looking for a new job. I went to school with him. I already know him. It's good. He's a good guy. And so, you know, we were able to bring him on. So, I think that just showed finding, you know, good associates, building good connections with them. That was great that we were able to find another associate just internally, right?Mm-hmm. Versus having to go out and interview a bunch of people, and that's worked out great too. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So you kind of, you, do you always leave it open like as in the sense of like you let your associates know, or your team know like, Hey guys, we're always looking for applicants SMAs or no Eric: on for associate?It probably just depends on, it's all in like capacity issues, right? So right now it, both offices we're pretty like stable where we're at and still growing. But I haven't hit that next point to where. I'm having such a hard time getting patients in for months and months and months that I need another producer right now.I think it's, like you said, it's always good to just keep the door open and just say, Hey, we're continuing to grow. We want to grow as we do, we're gonna need more providers. So, if you know people like, always share the word about your experience here. But like actively all the time.No, and that's just based on like I said, we're pretty stable on the providers we have. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Good man, that's awesome. That's a great way to, uh, you know what I mean, continue to get like associates, especially like, you know what I mean, within your own internal team. Eric: Yeah, yeah. It was great. Cause they all, they already knew each other, right?So when we do meetings and we do things with them and help them grow, it's nice because they already had an existing relationship and so it just, it just creates a really good environment. Michael: Yeah. No, no, no. I, I agree. So then what has been your experience with different marketing companies and which strategies have proved to be the most effective?Eric: Yeah, good question. So experience with different marketing companies. I think probably a lot of the same challenges that a lot of the listeners have here too, you know, I've had as well, it's, marketing. I feel it is such a soft science, right? And it's very easy. To get suckered into companies who we promise you X amount of new patients in this time or your money back, and it's very gim.It can be very, very gimmicky. okay, so going back to the beginning when we had the practice back in California, right? We just kind of did some research, went and saw who had good reviews, marketing agencies picked one who promised kind of the world, That didn't really get delivered after, we noticed after a few months.And so we're like, all right, well that's not really gonna work. And so we had challenges even then when we moved out to, Colorado out here. You know, we had gone through two, three different marketing companies that, first, everything seems great. And then push all these different kind of avenues to grow and do all that.And then when you start trying to track things and figure things out, you're finding that you're maybe not getting the same returns that were promised. So honestly the thing that's really worked for us recently is kind of just going back to the basics a little bit. And so the current marketing company that we use, We're just honing really in and from like a, a digital perspective of just doing Google Ads, making sure we're ranking really well, and that we have really good reviews.We were just finding, with when tracking right on where our new patients were coming from, so many of a majority were coming from, Hey, you guys, you know, rank high and you guys had really good reviews, And that's what everyone was saying. So we listened to what our customers were saying.That's how they were finding us. And so we just kind of doubled down and really focused in on that. And it made it a lot easier because we didn't, now, we don't have, now, I don't have to track direct mailers like I was in the past. I don't have to do as much ground marketing as I was in the past and track all these different things.We were able to just hone in on a couple things, make sure they're done really, really well, and it's worked Michael: nice. Okay. Right now. Could you tell us the name of your marketing company, Eric: the one you're using right now? So I use a guy who is based overseas actually, and it's his name is eSSH.He works with a lot of general practices, works with DSOs as well too. So yeah, that's, that's who I'm using. And that was just from internal referrals from other friends. But yeah, and I haven't really seen a drop off. I mean, at first you're kind of scared sometimes cause you're like, oh, you know, you're outsourcing stuff and you're outsourcing it overseas.But, honestly, the cost has dropped down a bit and I've seen no drop or possibly even a little bit of an increase in the number of new patients I've seen. So, you know, I was hesitant at first, but honestly it no complaints. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. When it came to the marketing companies that promised the world, how long did you stick with them?Eric: Yeah. I mean, you always wanna stick a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you don't wanna be one of those people that just switches after a month or two. We would give it a good, say, six months to a year. Especially because a lot of them, we're pushing direct mailers, right? And so in the beginning we used direct mailers a lot.Like that is what we did. It's expensive. Mm-hmm. And, the whole proposition on that was, well, you know, you gotta hit the consumer three, four or five times with like, same messaging, all that kind of stuff. You gotta put, deals in for place for them, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, you do get calls for 'em.So a lot of times we would wait with a marketer to at least do that first round of direct mail because we didn't wanna like commit and then back out halfway through. But I mean, usually within a first, the first few months little red flags we would notice were, that they weren't tracking the KPIs for us or any type of roi, right?Mm-hmm. On what we were getting. You know, communication was poor. It was almost like they spent a lot of time trying to get me. And then once they had me as a customer, it was kind of like just, okay, now we'll push 'em off, right? Mm-hmm. And so those were some red flags that I had noticed were just, yeah, it was, it was great in the beginning, but after a couple months you're like, all right, well this guy's not responding anymore.You know? He used to respond every, you know, and within 30 minutes and now it's a few days, and so yeah, those are some of the red flags I kind of noticed. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then how much budget do you typically allocate for your marketing Eric: activities? Yeah, so budgeting, like I said right now, because we're really focused in on just a few things.Our ad spend, it is dependent on where you live too, right? Mm-hmm. And how expensive, AdWords are and stuff. But we're spending anywhere from like, say two to three grand a month in ad spend and then just a management fee. Um, That's pretty small to the marketer that I use. So maybe all in for each office we're spending maybe.Three grand at one, four grand at the other, say. And we're seeing on average, say 60 to 80 new patients probably for each office which, happy with. Michael: Yeah, that's really good. So you're getting around a month, 60 to 80 Eric: new patients? Yeah. Each office. Yeah. Got it. Like for e not total. Each office gets between that.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael: So like in total it would be like 160 kind of thing, Eric: right? Like yeah, probably anywhere from, say like, One 30 to one 50 if you averaged it. Probably around there. Yeah. Okay. Michael: On can you tell your highest months? Yeah, I knew we got that much cuz we were spending, or we were doing this or we were doing that, or, or you can't really tell.I mean, Eric: I'm trying, so I was looking back at that our, our biggest month ever was, we've had a couple times that we've gone over a hundred at the location that's up north. Some of that has been, it, it really wasn't that we spent more in ad spend that month. We just had a lot of openings and we had a lot of open capacity at the office.So kind of the issues that I'm starting to run in now is, you know, I'm getting say 60 to 80 new patients, but, just based on the size of the office. a new patient calls, we always try to get 'em in within the week, but I mean, we're starting to book out more so in my head we, I could probably get more new patients in.I'm just running into a capacity issue. So the reason I was able to see a hundred that one month is we just had a lot of openings in that June for some reason. And so we were able just to fill in tons of new patients there. So the positive. From that on my perspective is if I feel like I pushed it harder and either, extended hours or opened up a new operatory, did something like that and created more space to see more patients, then I could, probably get even more new patients in.So yeah, that's probably why we had that higher number. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So it was more slots open, available in the schedule. Exactly. Exactly. Interesting. Okay. And then how equipped is your team in converting calls into actual Eric: patients? I feel like we're pretty good with it. I've made sure to train my team to always answer the phone.And one thing that we've actually done, which is a I forgot where I had learned it, but it was a good little nugget of information that on our phone system, right? When someone calls in, they, you know, it says, Hey, welcome to our office. If you're a new patient, press one. If you're an existing patient, press two, right?Mm-hmm. So if they press one and they're a new patient, the phone will ring longer. It'll go through, I don't know, four or five rings, right? Whereas if it's an existing patient, but it'll go for a shorter period of time. That way, my whole team knows if the calls ring longer, like it's gone through its third ring or its fourth ring, hey that is 100% someone who's calling to be a new patient.You gotta drop what you're doing. You gotta answer that phone. We cannot let that go to voicemail. Right. We need to answer that. Yeah. So we implemented that system in place and so my whole team knows that. Hey, even if I'm doing something else, if I hear the phone ringing and it's still been ringing for longer than normal, I gotta pick that up cause that's probably a new patient.Right? Cuz like all of us know those new patients cost money, right? We gotta put marketing efforts in to get that. So, my team knows to do that and that's a little trick we did to get them on board to answer that and then, We have a, just a very simple paper intake form that just has some basic questions on it that kind of directs our team on what to ask for whether, just a.New patient appointment for a checkup and cleaning, or if it's a limited exam, right, they need to come in for an emergency. If it's a new patient exam, we make sure we build our schedule out that we can get them in within the week, right? Because you don't want a patient calling and saying, oh, well we can't get you, you know?And we say, Hey, we can't get you in for three weeks. They're gonna find somewhere else. Or they'll make the appointment and then not show up. Right? So we make sure we have capacity in our schedule to be able to see them, within a decent timeframe. And then if it's an emergency, one thing I have told all my team is we gotta get them in same day.You know, we don't need to promise that we're gonna start treatment on 'em, right? But we can at least get 'em in to address their concerns and figure out what's going on. Patients really appreciate that, and that has created a lot of goodwill within our community that patients know they can come in and see us.We've had a couple patients who call in for emergencies because the dentist down the street or wherever they normally go, can't see 'em for three days. We get 'em in the same day and then we convert them over to our practice. So it's been a great way to, gain more patience by doing that. Michael: Gotcha.Okay man. So then they basically fill out that new patient form real quick and then bring them in. Eric: Right. Yeah. We have 'em fill in. So everything else is pretty much digital in the office, right? Mm-hmm. So when they fill out that intake form, then it's my scheduler's job or whoever has, whoever's taking the call to find time within our schedule to get them in.We'll try to get, you know, basic insurance information, all that kind of stuff so we can make the appointment go a little more smoothly when they come in, right from that perspective. and then, yeah, they pretty much just, they, we'd get 'em in. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome, man. And then could you elaborate on any unique.Ground marketing or outta the box strategies that have been successful for your practice. Eric: So when we did, because our practices were startups, right? So I feel like in the beginning we had to try to get creative, cuz you come in with no pa, no new patients, right? So, and you don't have, your website isn't built up, you don't have a ton of good reviews, all that kind of stuff.So a lot of the things I'm doing now is a byproduct of. Time, and being able to build all that. But in the beginning, yeah, some of the ground marketing I did and was, we went to all the apartment complexes that were nearby, you know, gave gift, either gift baskets to the people working there or asked to drop certain, flyers and different things in there new mover baskets that they'll give, right?Mm-hmm. To new tenants coming in. And saw some decent results with that in the beginning. I don't do that anymore because it's not, it's not really needed because we. Built up the new patient flow to where it needs to be. But in the beginning, man, you gotta kind of just grind, right? So, I mean, we did that, you know, I went to the towns we're in, they have like festivals, every summer.And so we took a booth out, wore our swag that we had and just, had 'em. Play like a game to win a prize. Then we try to get their information in, you know, as long as they put in their information, then we try to reach out to them later to try to get them to schedule. One issue we did see with that, and it's probably just dependent on the market you're in and where it is is my office is, don't take Medicaid insurance, but one of the festivals we were at, it was a heavy A lot of people who were there, used Medicaid for their dental benefits.And so that didn't work that well for us because, I mean, we didn't really know what the demographic was gonna be, who was gonna be at that, right? Like, there's no way to know that. But that was one good learning lesson is, the, the audience we were targeting wasn't the audience that was at that, mm-hmm.Ground marketing kind of event. Right? Yeah. But you know, I've thrown around tons of other like, kind of ideas, but it kind of goes back to that first point that I had was. initially I think you gotta do some of that ground marketing, but one I think you really hone in and focus in on, you get good reviews, right?As fast as you can. you get really good marketing company that can just build your rankings and build a really good modern website. That's good, that's easy for patients to use. we use a software that has kind of like a local med right, where the patients can schedule online to make it convenient for them.And we just really focusing on building those few things really well. And it's allowed us to kind of step away from having to do all this ground marketing that we, you know, in my head I'm like, oh, this is gonna be huge. Right. Because a, that takes a lot of time too. Mm-hmm. You know, my time, team members time, right.I gotta pay team members to be there, whereas, I have to pay for the Google ad, but don't have to pay for a team member to be there. So, we've definitely pivoted more to just, like I said, focusing in on those few main things and it's, it's been good. Michael: Yeah. The Pareto principle, right?Like you're focusing in on the this pretty good, pretty good. Exactly. Exactly. Have you ever faced a situation where the promised results were not achieved within the expected Eric: timeframe? Yeah, I mean, yeah, kind of like I alluded to earlier, you know, the one good thing about the marketer that I use now is it's pretty straightforward. Easy to get in touch with. I kind of know I, expectations are good, but yeah, in the past, so like, for example, the previous marketer I used. Before this one was a local marketer in Colorado. He was a de dental specific still, right? Like I still reco, you know, I'd still recommend you pick a dental specific marketer, right?Mm-hmm. he had all these huge ideas on what he was gonna do every week. It was, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, and then nothing would ever come to fruition. So that was kind of frustrating. I also found out, cause I had some friends that were clients of his as well.And they, you know, we'd talk and they'd say, Hey, I'm doing really well with him and, we're doing x, y, and z marketing things. And I was like, well, those never, how come those never got mentioned to me? I'm only 15 miles away from this other office. Why? Why is he telling them and not telling me?So I'd have to go back and say, I just talked to my friend, they said they're doing this and this with you. Just how come we're not having consistency here? Like everything's kind of all over the map and not organized. So, that was kind of frustrating as well, where I felt like I wasn't getting at least the options to know everything.Right. so then direct mailers too, like we used those in the beginning. And those, those did work for a bit, but then kind of tailed off and didn't really give us much of an ROI after that. But those were, those cost a lot of money and, sometimes marketers I think would promise, a certain result from those.And then when we would track it, we're like, well, we got like a third of that. Right? Like, Hey, you're gonna get. I'm just throwing random numbers, like you're gonna get 20 calls on this and we'd see like six. Right. And it would be consistent. So I think a lot of times, A lot of times I think it was just over-promising and underdelivering.Mm-hmm. Right. Or with rankings, previous marketer, I used two before this one. That's helped me boost my rankings, All right. How come rankings aren't where they're at? How come I'm still ranked like 20th and there's 20 dentists in the area, right? Why am I at the bottom? feel like we've got good reviews, we've got a good website, all this stuff.Oh, no, no, we're working on it. It takes time. It takes time. three months later, Hey, I'm still 20th, man, you know? Are we working on, oh, yeah, no, no, we're working. We're good. Next month. I'm at 19, right? See, see, we made some progress. Now we're at 19 and it's like, All right. Well, I mean, I'm paying you every month.Like I'd like to see some, possible, some quicker results. What do we need to do that? I'll do what you deem me to do. Just tell me. And so I think we were running into issues where it was just a lot of that Right. Just, you know, mm. Not being able to deliver. Yeah. Yeah. Michael: That's true. I feel like especially the SEO game, It's like that, where they're like, oh, you gotta optimize your website. You gotta piss optimize. You're like, well, whatcha you doing every month to really optimize this thing? Yeah. Paying a fee all the time, you Eric: know? Yeah. And it's not meant to try to be negative on it. I get, it's a really soft science, and I'm not a marketer, so I don't understand all the workings of it, but I think the issue is, is when.The promise or the expected delivery is we're gonna get you on the first page within X timeframe. What would happen is that timeframe would happen and it wouldn't happen. And so then I think as like Dennis, like us, we say, okay, well I just paid you X amount of money with the goal that we would get here.We're not here. And then it was always like a new excuse of why it didn't happen. So, I'm happy with, who I've got now. We've been able to deliver on the results and it's been good. Michael: Awesome man. So who you got now? The marketing company or the guy who's doing your, your marketing right now.What specific actions have they undertaken for you? Like, I know you said they're doing your digital or Google ads, and then at the same time seo, but specifically like what do they recommend from you? Or what they, would they ask for you? Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I'll use Slack, like, I don't know if you've ever used that app.Right. Just to communicate. And so we'll communicate on there. in the beginning he came through and he's like, Hey, I need to, like every marketer, I need to reoptimize your website. Right? So, you know, he went through and he told me, Hey get me a video here. This'll help if we put this here, I wanna put a call to action here.Here's the reason why I need some photos of this, this, and this. And so he would just gimme tasks of what I needed. I would send it to him, and then he would do it. Right. And that's, and we communicate mostly through like Slack, which is kind of nice. And then in terms of ads, a lot of it is, when I do meetings with him, it's, Hey, what do you, at your practice, what are you looking for right now?Right. Do you wanna see more emergencies? Okay, let's push Google Ads. Here's some of the recommendations that I have for ads that we do. Look over it. Tell me if you're okay as well with how it's worded, right? Because we wanna make sure things are worded how we want, right? Because to make sure there's not any, like either errors or we're saying something that we can't promise on, right?So I, I like to just do a quick double check just to make sure, or hey, My associate wants to get more into uh, clear aligners, right. You know, like Invisalign kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And he'd say, okay, let's make a, let's make a landing page and try to put an offer on there.This is what I'm recommending what do you think? And I look my stuff and say, yeah, we're good. So he is like, all right, we're gonna drive traffic to here, and then it's gonna push them through to your site and then they can schedule. Right. So we kind of just are a little more collaborative and we kind of talk about that stuff and then, it's pretty basic.He just tells me what he needs and then he does it right. Which, sometimes, I think we think things have to be complicated for them to actually feel like they're good. And sometimes I think there's a lot of genius in people that can take things that. Are complicated, make 'em very simple and then just make 'em work, right?Yeah. And that's kind of what I've been finding with this marketer. So it's been good. Nice man. Michael: Awesome. Awesome. And then can you share any other strategic changes apart from marketing that you implemented and found to contribute Eric: to your success? So apart from marketing, For us, I think what's helped attribute our to our success in general and being able to grow both the, startup practices I feel like pretty strongly in a, in a relatively short amount of time.It's just having systems and processes in place, right. I kind of had to learn that the hard way. between the two of us, my wife is way more of the systems person, way more of the organized person. Mm-hmm. Hold people accountable. And I tend to just be like the fun one who just comes to hang out.Right. And so there's a lot of cons to being that type of person. Right. Especially when we had our first child a few years ago and she had to step away from the businesses and, then it was all on me to kind of. Take over it. And you know, I knew all the systems, but you know, I wasn't following 'em as much and I didn't track to make sure they were being done.The team kind of noticed I was, not doing my checklist of stuff I had to do in a, and then they stopped. Right? And so it caused the practices to kind of, dip a little bit. And so I kind of had to, Think about all that and kind of have a little heart, heart to it myself and say, Hey man, you got two options.Like we know these systems work. Either need to do it and be the leader of it or don't, and then they'll continue to dip. So once I started following more of our, you know, our systems for how we order our systems for, how we track lab or all that kind of stuff, right? That comes into a practice.Once I started actually. Holding myself and other people accountable to that, then the practices starts to, to get going better again. Right. And doing well again. So I would think the one thing that really contributed and contributes continuously to our success is just having systems in place and making sure that we're following those systems.Michael: Okay, so having systems right now, if you can think about it, what are like one or two systems where you're like, man, we created it. It's a unique system in our practice. We love it Eric: and it's amazing. Yeah, so that's great. I mean, probably for me it's probably all ordering stuff. Right? And then I'll, this kind of goes into, how I ended up creating a software company too that's based on.Like an ordering system. Right. So, little bit of a backstory. So when Covid hit right, it hit all of us as dental offices, right? We were all shut down. It was mandated, you know, some longer, some shorter, but in Colorado we were shut down for six weeks unless it was like a, just a straight up emergency, right?So, say mid-March to beginning of May my wife and I were just home, right? And we brought the office phone back to our office at our house. And we were just answering calls and we kind of said, all right, well, you know, since we kind of have to bootstrap this, the entire staff was furloughed, right?we'll take calls when we're not doing that, what are we gonna do with our time? Like, we had a little kid at home, but like when they're sleeping and stuff, it's like, we're not just gonna sit around and watch tv, right? Like, how can we, how can we actually like take this negative experience and make it positive?So we said, all right, let's look at all of our different processes, What are we doing? Let's look at our systems, let's review everything. So we started to go through all of our different systems and. We had gotten onto ordering and you know, we had a spreadsheet and everything and it was good. It was organized.And at that same time though, I realized that I had to order, right. Usually my assistant ordered, but my order, my assistant's not working for me. So, we were looking and we were trying to find the things that everyone was trying to find. Right. All the PPE you're trying to find. Yeah.Gloves, masks. You know, you've got, I had my Henry Shine tab up and I had my Darby tab up and my net 32, and then some random supplier in like China or something, right? Mm-hmm. And you got all of them up and you're trying to figure out, I need to get this kn N 95 max. No, no, no. It needs to be a level three.No, it needs to at least be this. Right. And then with gloves, but we need, you know, I wear larges. Oh, they only have extra smalls, right? And they're like, crap, okay, what does Darby have? What do they have? And one second, it's in stock. Then you press add to cart and it's now it's unavailable, right?And the prices are skyrocketing and there's all these issues with this. And so we're like, man, this is kind of tough. We're like, I wonder if there's like a better way to, outside of all this covid stuff, just to kind of order in general, right? Mm-hmm. Cause we were seeing all those challenges.So the idea for the software company we created Ordo like O R D O was born and so, They kind of first just started out as an idea to just take all of those vendors that we all use and just have 'em on one platform because, it's so annoying to have to click between 10 different tabs and, compare prices and do all that.So at first, the tool was just built out as a way to link all of the vendors that you have, put 'em on one platform. You search for an item, like if I was searching for Septocaine, right? I press search and then I can see. Septocaine, I can see all the vendors I've linked. I can price compare right then and there in real time.these are all made up numbers, but shine's numbers, it's, it's 45 bucks for Shine, it's, it's 50 bucks for Darby and it's 55 for net 32. Okay, well I'm gonna pick Henry Shine. It's in stock and it's there. So that's where that idea was born to just make it a lot easier for dental offices, assistant office managers, whoever who's ever ordering to be able to just.Place their orders and then it's grown, right? So we went from there and said, all right, well how else do you continue to build out an ordering system? Right? You gotta be able to track your inventory, track your budget, all that stuff too. So we've built out additional features where you know, you can track your budget.In real time so your team knows where they're at. You don't have to have a spreadsheet for that anymore. with inventory we can track all of your orders on one platform from all your different vendors. You can check to see, if it's shipped, you can click on the tracking link to know when it's expected.So pretty much from start to finish, you can order supplies and track all your inventory, which is great. We let users keep their current. Prices if they're part of a buying group, they get to keep the current prices they have with them. So, doesn't create an issue. And then we've even, sorry, I know I get excited about talking about this.No, it's good. It's good. Feel free to stop me if you need me to, but no. One other thing that we did cool that I feel like differentiates us from the other people in the space that are doing something similar is we've actually linked up directly with open dental. Right. You know how their softwares will do that as well.You know, there's a way where you can link your open dental account to Oro and we can first, we can pull all of your budgets automatically. So we'll just take your, you know, monthly report that shows your production or collections, and we can sync it straight into Oro and then it'll update, every month.So your team doesn't have to manually put in all that stuff again. And the other thing that we did that's really cool with Open Dental is we created a feature called FutureCast. And what that does is it allows us to scan your schedule on open dental, either a week out, two weeks out, just you know, certain timeframes into the future.We can compare how many of a certain procedure you have compared to what you normally do, like historically. So like for Example that actually happened. My associate had a ton of extractions scheduled in the following week. He had a full mouth case. He had a thirds case. He had a ton of just single teeth.He had like 30 more extractions than he normally does. That's what we figured out by running future cast. And so what it did is it allowed my assistant to be really proactive and she said, Hey, look, The doc here is doing 30 more extractions. Do I have enough bone graft? Do I have enough sutures?Do I have enough membrane? Do I have enough of the things I need, or my doc needs to be able to do these procedures so it's not Monday and we're scrambling to try to get stuff, you know, next day air sent over. So she was able to be proactive about her ordering. And it solved a huge issue. It was a super smooth week.We kept production. We didn't have to reschedule patients, you know, and everyone got, what they needed to get done and there was no stress then because she just was able to be proactive. But yeah. Cool. Yeah. So, yeah. That's nice man. Pretty Michael: excited about it. Yeah. And this is going live when?Eric: So right now we are just, we just got out of beta. We're doing kind of a soft launch with a few other offices just to kind of work out some final kinks on it. But, our goal is, June 1st, we're gonna start kind of doing a little bit heavier of uh, bringing on some more offices.And then July 1st is when we'd like to be full steam ahead, anyone can join on. And yeah, just go from there. So yeah, we're real, we're really, really excited. A lot of work development takes a long time, but it's definitely been worth it. It's been great. Michael: No man, it's gonna be exciting stuff.Awesome. So we'll talk about that a little bit and especially the exclusive offer you have for our listeners in a bit. But one of the last questions I wanted to ask you is, as a practice owner, what advice would you give to our listeners regarding effective marketing and ROI Eric Applesies DRAFT-cm: tracking? Eric: Yeah, that's a really, really good question.I was kind of contemplating and thinking about that a little bit it kind of goes back to what I've kind of been talking about throughout the podcast, I feel like is. Eventually just once you've got your practice established and you're good, just going back to the basics a little bit on what you're doing with marketing, right?And this is just from like the last year of when we've just kind of gone back to keeping it simple. And I think I tell a new practice owner, Hey, in the beginning you gotta go hard. You gotta ground market, you gotta do whatever you can. You gotta hustle, right? To get those new patients in.Cause you're, you know, if you're a startup, you're starting with nothing. And if you're a transition, I mean maybe not as much cause you maybe already have new patient flow. But I would say it's really just go back to the basics. focus first and on. If you're doing an acquisition, check to see what your reviews are like.If they're not where they need to be, get 'em up. Right? Use a company that does review management, right? There's a ton of 'em out there that'll help make it easy for you, right? Mm-hmm. Build up your reviews. 90 plus percent of your patients it happens every time I tell 'em, or I ask 'em, how'd you hear about us?It's always, you guys had amazing reviews. Right? And they're not just, you know, at our office, we just don't have a five star review with no. Like comment underneath it that the user left, it'll be a five star review and it'll say, I had a great experience. You know, Dr. So-and-so was great. The assistance were great.It's a long response. And potential customers or patients love to see those. So I would say build reviews, build them as fast as you can, and make sure they're quality reviews right. Focus in on that. Focused in on getting a marketing company that, doesn't try to over promise. If they're trying to over promise on stuff and like, Hey, we're gonna make you first in the rankings and all that, it's probably a red flag cuz I don't think they're doing something that's special that another marketing company can't.I have not been convinced yet that there's some special sauce that some market one marketing company has that other ones don't. Right. So, I don't see a lot of difference between them in terms of that. I would say, Get a really good website, make sure it's modern. Something that people wanna see, right?That users don't feel like. Cause if a, if a website feels old or it's not working, then they probably attribute that to your office, right? If it's modern, it looks new, it's clean, it's easy to use, you can schedule online, then you've created a smooth process for them before they've even seen you. So they have the expectations subconsciously in their head that my appointment is gonna be smooth too, right?So make it easy for 'em. And Yeah, and I, I'd say yeah, focusing on, focusing on those Google ads have worked really well for us. They're very hands-off. Once you have 'em running, you don't have to think about 'em. I found more of the marketing that I don't have to think about and just gets done and it gets done effectively.Frees up more time for me and it's less things I have to think about. So that's why I like those as well. But yeah, I would, I would say focusing on those things. Michael: Awesome, man. I appreciate your time. And real quick, where can people find out more about Ordo at the same time? The exclusive deal. All that stuff.Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So our website, it's join ordo.com. Very easy process. Once you go in you can check out the website, kind of see our vendors we have on there kind of see all the features that we have. You can onboard straight from the website, which is great. Onboarding takes safe five to 10 minutes, and then you're good to go.So, very easy as well. And yeah, so the offer that I wanted to, you know, give all the listeners here is just the first month free, That way it gives everyone a chance to use the platform, love it as much as we do. Make sure it's a good fit and everything. And if you just use promo code T D M and you put it in to the end of onboarding, there'll be a spot.Then it'll apply and you'll be good. Michael: Nice guys. So you're gonna get a month for free. Check it out. Taste it, right. Feel it. It's interesting. But future cast is really, really interesting. You know what I mean? Like everything's really great. But that to me, I was like, oh, snap. Eric: Yeah, we're really, and honestly it was through a friend who was like, you know, I was giving, I was just asking some friends about it, and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if we could do this?And I was like, yes, that would be amazing. We should do that. And so, yeah, we built it out. I, I really, I'm really, really excited about that feature. I feel like it's something that hasn't been seen before and it's gonna provide a lot of value to practices, so, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Michael: definitely. Awesome. Eric, thank you so much for your time.If wanted, if anyone wanted to reach out to you, where can they find you? Eric: Yeah my email is Eric e r i c, join ordo.com. So feel free there. And yeah, I'll I'm happy to answer any questions for you. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, along with the exclusive deal and the Ordo website if you guys want to go check it out.And Eric, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear Eric: from you soon. Sounds great. Thanks for having me.‍‍

(If you DO want to work with Golden Proportions, they are actually giving all our listeners 2 EXCLUSIVE DEALS)Reach out to Golden Proportions here: https://go.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketer-deal‍‍Hey guys, welcome to this week's MMM! Today we're diving into the world of SEO with our special return guest, Xana Winans. Join us as we explore the secrets of utilizing SEO for your dental practice, and how to know if it's actually moving the needle. We'll uncover the importance of location and service keywords, with Xana's expert advice recommending 3-5 keywords for every 500-600 words of text on your website. The competitiveness of your area impacts your SEO strategy vastly, so we share some thoughts and strategies on effectively assessing your competition's keyword usage. Plus, we'll uncover a crucial tip: if your website hasn't seen new content in years, Google may be ignoring it. Don't miss out on this chance to boost your SEO chops, and get more searching patients through your doors!‍You can reach out to Xana Winans here:Website: https://www.goldenproportions.com/Get Xana's free assessments and guides here: https://www.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketing-resources/‍Other Mentions and Links:AACD - American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Xana. So talk to us about s e O. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions or methods can you give us that will help us actually attract new patients through Xana: seo? So first off, thanks for having me, Michael. Um, I love talking about seo O I'm a complete geek when it comes to this stuff because it feels like Google has this secret sauce that they're not willing to share with the rest of us.But there's actually a ton of information out there, and, part of the reason I'm so excited about it just because doctors don't understand what they're buying. So I like to teach them things that allow them to literally look on their website and see. Did I get the right thing? Am I getting something that is gonna actually help me to rank my website?So it all starts with keywords. so let me ask you a question. When you want to find a question or the answer to a question on Google, what's the first thing you do? Michael: I'm gonna ask it. Like, where can I find. Take, I don't know, something like that. You know Xana: what I mean? Sure. Yeah. So with within the phrase that you're asking, there are target keywords that Google is trying to match up with the best possible result.Their entire goal is to give you the best user experience, and that means they wanna give you a website that matches the, the answer that you're looking for. Um, and that happens because they're able to find that answer on your website in the way it's been built. So, For any doctor to know if their website is ranking.It's all about understanding the keywords. And the keywords are, are the basic things that just like if you were a patient and you were trying to understand, how do I find the best dentist for, uh, pediatrics, for cosmetic dentistry, for dental implants, they're gonna go online and they're gonna type in a phrase that says, cosmetic dentist near me.How do I find a good pediatric dentist? Those keywords. Physically have to be on your website. I don't know how familiar you are with seo, but do you know the top couple of places that you can look at on your own site to see if your keywords are being used? Well, is it like homepage or? No, it's all over the website.Oh, okay. So when you're in your browser, let's say you're in Google Chrome. I don't know about you, but I have like 10 tabs open at all time. I'm hopping back and forth. Yeah. Between like email and my calendar and something I'm researching and something I'm working on for a client. Well, every time that you're in your browser and you're looking up a couple of different websites, you probably don't even realize this, but if you take your mouse and you hover over the little tab at the top mm-hmm.It has some words on it. And those words on the website are known as the title tag. It's a meta tag or a meta description that kind of explains to Google what the purpose of the website is about. So if, for example, I am on a doctor's website that is in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania where I happen to live, and um, it's a page about cosmetic dentistry, I would expect to see the words cosmetic dentistry.And Lewisburg, the town that's most important to me physically pop up when I hover on that, that little tag, that tab. If you hovering over something and it says home, or it just has your business name without any local geo identifiers, your website is definitely not optimized. That's place number one to look for keywords.Another really good place to look for them is called anchor text. I'll ask you, do you know what Anchor text is and what the purpose of it is? Michael: Um, man, this on you. You're putting me on the spot and I don't know anything about seo, so I, I'm assuming anchor text is like the, the text that people can easily find, like if they click on something and it goes to it, or, or no.Am I super Xana: off? No, you're, you're roughly right. So let's say you're on this page about cosmetic dentistry. part of the goal is to get you to maneuver around the website to a couple of different pages to explore what this doctor has to offer. Mm-hmm. So, as you're reading the text on this page, on cosmetic dentistry, You might see a couple of underlines or hyperlinks that will take you to a different page.So for example, if you are accredited with the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, you might say that in your bio, or talk about the importance of that accreditation. But then you're gonna link out to a different website, the very words that are used in that link. That link is considered anchor text.And the better the keywords that are used in that link, the more valuable it is in Google's mind. So often you've probably seen this, we all have, where um, you're reading something on a website and it says, click here. Mm-hmm. And click here are the only two words that are your hyperlink. What do you think that does for, say, somebody who's trying to rank for cosmetic dentistry in Lewisburg?Michael: it doesn't Xana: go with it exactly. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't tell the search engine what is most important on that page. So instead, you might want to have your hyperlink with the anchor text, say, learn more about cosmetic dentistry services in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania and. That whole section is typically like a highlighted word and it links to another page, but there's keywords physically in that link that make a better user experience.It helps someone know, what is this thing I wanna learn about? It's a great signal to Google. there's also a couple of other places that you wanna use these keywords and it's in the text on your website page. So the content on your page should contain not just the one keyword that you care about, like cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg, but it should be repeated and talked about a couple of different ways.Throughout the website, Google has something that they call semantic language. So they understand when you're talking about cosmetic dentistry, that that's also tied to smile Design. And smile design might also be affiliated with porcelain veneers. And so you talk about a couple of different cosmetic dentistry topics and Google knows to tie it all together.So ideally you need to be incorporating your primary keyword, say cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg into that website page. I'd say probably three to five times in about five or 600 words on a page. Doctors hate to see all this content on their website. They seem to think like nobody's gonna sit there and read all that, so they just want like a little blip of text.Unfortunately, Google wants to see all of it. So you've gotta have enough information to actually describe this thing that you're talking about. Michael: Mm. Okay. Now information wise, how much is like too much? How much is too little? If I were to be like, can we just do, like for example, let's hire Golden Proportions.And I tell them, can we just do like five sentences every month of a specific topic, but like really talk about it or no. Um, well, Xana: I would tell you to probably not waste your money doing that. it really needs to have some depth to it. Mm-hmm. So there's a, a couple of things to keep in mind. Let's say you wanna rank for cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg, but there's somebody else who's po in position one and you're in position for, one of the things you want to do is go to your competitor and literally see how many words.Are on that same page that they're ranking for the term that you want, and then how often is that keyword repeated in their text? And believe it or not, and this is very well documented and proven, you need to have more words than the next guy as one of a really big ranking signal to get you up there.So you know, if you only have five sentences and the guy. Who is ranking number one has a thousand words on this page about cosmetic dentistry. He's gonna win hands down, over and over and over again. it's not just that there's a hard and fast rule, it's kind of more knowing I. If there's nobody else in town who cares about that keyword, you'll rank by default.But if it is, you know, a really competitive keyword, you've gotta do some competitive research to find out what else is going on in your community and take a really targeted approach to your Michael: success. Gotcha. Okay. Would video work in that scenario Xana: or no? So video works in a couple of different ways in that it's great for user engagement.People love to watch videos, but just watching the video itself only gives Google one signal, which is how long somebody spends on the website. What it doesn't do is give them any actual content. So what you'll need to do is use a transcription service. Who then writes out the script of what was talked about in your, um, video, and then you include that text on the website and that text is inevitably going to be containing some of the keywords you're looking for.Gotcha. Okay. So Michael: this is what, a portion or all of it, or is this part of what we kind of pay for when it comes to s Xana: e O? So this is just a part of it. This is a little bit of the magic behind why search engine. People write what they write and the way that they write it. Often I've seen doctors who want to go in and edit the way that something is written because it doesn't sound as much like them.Or, they want to use a word that might, in their mind be more descriptive of the procedure, but if it's not a keyword that somebody is actually searching, it's kind of useless. So it's important to know that, you know, what you're paying for is someone who knows where to put the right words in the right place with the right frequency in order to get you to rank.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So that's part of it, right? Xana: That's part of it. Part of s Yeah, it's actually kind of like a mathematical formula, figuring out that right density of keywords. Oh, Michael: okay. Okay. And so frequency matters too. I heard you say that right? Like how often we're supposed to be posting, um, Xana: You're ready. Um, frequency matters both in how many times the keyword is used in a page on the website, but also how often you're adding new content.So that's one of the great joys of blogging is if you have a blog on your website, it's really easy to write something interesting, maybe about an FAQ that you hear from a patient, and you write 350 to 500 words about that particular topic, and you're adding new content to the website. I'd every two weeks, you know, once a month at the absolute minimum.And it shows Google that your website is active and interesting. So if you have a website where you have not added any new content in literally years mm-hmm. Your website is being completely ignored by Google. Michael: Okay. So, for example, let's just say some, we're listening right now, right to this episode.We're like, all right, I wanna get golden proportions to do just by, by the way, do you guys just do seo? If we were to just ask you guys just to do Xana: seo, Well, it depends on the quality of the website. So if somebody comes to us and they have an otherwise really good website, absolutely we can transfer the site in, we can do SEO o for them.but often part of s e o is also the websites speed and how good the user experience is. And so sometimes if you've got a website that's more than three or four years old, often it needs kind of to be re-skinned on new technology that makes Google happy. So, And I always say Google because they're the king of the search engines.Obviously there's more than just Google out there, but it is really helpful. Gotcha. Michael: Okay, so then we did the seo. What's the best kind of, you recommend if we're like, Hey, you're on page 10, you're on page seven, right? Like if you wanna get to number one, this is the frequency, this is the package you need to get, and then can you kind of let us know like, okay, if somebody were to recommend that, that's a little bit.Eh, they're just getting you for your money kind of Xana: thing. Well, that's the thing is it's really different from practice to practice. It depends on the market that you're in. Mm-hmm. If you're trying to rank number one for dentist in Chicago, it's gonna take a whole different level of effort. Then dentist in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, which is a town of about 25,000 people.So when you have a package, That's kind of trying to shove a really unique situation into a standard solution for everybody. Mm-hmm. I think it's better to make sure that the company really looks at your website and says, okay, knowing your market, knowing your competition, knowing what you wanna rank for, here's the best way to do it.And it could be outside of a package, it could require something completely different. So packages have their place, but they might not be serving you really, really well. Michael: Gotcha to like your unique demographic and everything like that. Xana: not so much demographic as it is understanding your market and the other doctors that are out there.So it, it's one of those situations that, you know, if you're at a trade show and you see somebody selling SEO services and it's 2 95 a month, they're selling the exact same solution to somebody in a Podunk small town where there's no competition as they are to somebody in an incredibly competitive market.And it might not be the right solution for you. So seo, you don't wanna buy on price. You wanna buy on someone who actually understands what it takes to rank in your market for the things that are important to your practice. Michael: Awesome. I appreciate that Xana, and thank you so much for your time. And if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you Xana: directly?Uh, best way to reach us is on our website, golden proportions.com. Um, there'll be a live chat. We can definitely have a chat on there, or you'll see a place where you can schedule an appointment and we'd love to talk to you. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below. As always, anzania, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.My Xana: pleasure. Thank you, Michael.‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Mary Ann PruittBusiness Name: Mosaic MediaCheck out Mary Ann's Media:‍Website: https://mosaic.agency/Twitter: https://twitter.com/mediaMAPsLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryann-pruitt/‍‍Other Mentions and Links:MeatEaterNetflixGoogle Pay for ClickBing Pay for ClickHuluAmazon Prime VideoDr. ClarkSuperfans - Pat Flynn‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Can you answer 10 questions about your target audience? This will help narrow down your marketing efforts.Don't be the turtle in a recession, do something to stand out from the competition!Outsourcing to a professional in marketing with save you valuable time and money.Having a specific strategy partner will help bring your marketing plan together.Make sure content you put out always speaks to your target audience.Social media platforms are NOT for targeting, they are for branding!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: it's time to talk with our featured guests, Marianne Pruitt. Marianne, how's it going? Great. How are you Mary Ann: today? Michael: I'm doing pretty good. Before we pushed record, you were giving us a lesson real quick on where you're located. Where are you? Mary Ann: Where you from? Yeah, so I live in Anchorage, Alaska.I'm not originally from there, but I live in Anchorage, Alaska now. We are a media firm that is covers the entire country. It's just, I just have the amazing benefit of being able to live in Alaska. Michael: I know I got really into Alaska when I was watching Meat Eater. I don't know if that Oh yeah.Netflix. Yeah. I mean, they're in Alaska all the time. Real quick, if you can let our audience know. Two quick facts about Alaska where Mary Ann: you're from. Two quick facts. The state of Alaska is almost the same size as the continental us. If you were to take the state of Alaska and put it in the middle of the continental US, it would touch coast to coast.People do not realize that and top to bottom. Oh wow. So Alaska is huge. Another quick fact. We are the more what number one ice cream consumer per capita. So who knew that? And then one more fact, we have more pilots than any other state per capita as well. Oh, wow. The Michael: ice cream wine.Mary Ann: Interesting. The ice cream one. Right. Number one highest consumer of ice cream. So you would think you love our ice cream? I, I think it's the lack of vitamin D in the winter, but maybe not. I don't know. Oh, okay. Maybe this is the theory. I think we just like our ice Michael: cream. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Awesome, Marianne, I appreciate that.If you can tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you are today? Mary Ann: I'm an East Coast girl originally. But I actually started in marketing and in media at a very young age. So I was 16, 17 years old. I started on the graphic design side, believe it or not.And this was before everything was digitized, so you had to take an actual picture, scan it in, use it that way. And that's actually how I got into marketing. I worked in a tourism shop for a while designing various gadgets for tourists and various things along those lines. It was a lot of fun, but I fell in love with media at a young age, getting into media and doing media, planning and strategy and all the above, and I was very fortunate to get into it really young.So I worked my way through college. Was able to find the fact that I loved marketing and economics, and that's amazing how that goes with media and especially in today's world cuz we are all data nerds. When you are into economics and when you are into media, you have to understand and love your data in today's world.So, the economic side of me definitely in the statistical data and all those things, I'm definitely a stats nerd. I absolutely fell in love with that so, I started my firm a little over 12 years ago and really focus on media. That's all we do. And we got into programmatic media early and that's where we are now of being able to be one of the leaders in programmatic and being able to offer those services to multiple, multiple different brands and multiple verticals.Michael: Real quick, rewind a little bit. Marketing and economics. Break it down to us. How does that go? Hand Mary Ann: in hand? It, it's so funny cuz you don't actually think that it does Uhhuh. I did my thesis on recessional recovery. On the economic side. Well, guess what? And the, one of the key things of recovering from and being a company that is recovering from a recession, Is actually your marketing plan and the two go hand in hand, and we don't think of them going hand in hand.We think, okay, marketing's over here. Economics is over here. Well, both of them are in the business sector and both of them are in that umbrella. If we actually bring them together, the knowledge that you learn in and I, I call marketing the marketing bridge. So we have all of our different pillars, everything from your name, from your website all the different things of your clients being able to find you and your potential clients being able to find you.That's your marketing bridge. Well, media is one of those pillars and in economics, and if I look at that side of it, statistical data. Is a huge part of economics. That's what you're studying. You're studying statistics, you're studying that, those pieces of, especially in a recession various recoveries, various things that you can do with it and what better to go together.Media is in marketing and the statistical data falls into economics and marketing as well, and that's where you have that bridge. But you have to have that bridge for you on your marketing has to have all those pillars filled and economically. We need to look at no matter what. And a lot of people are accidental business owners.They go into a career off of something totally different. They either want to be like you're listeners, they wanna be a dentist, they want to be a medical practice, but they're never taught actually how to be a business owner. And when you think of it as having that. Bridge with all those pillars. The economic piece is there too, because depending on how the economy is doing globally and locally and nationally that's gonna be how your business is gonna do.So what can you do? What are tactics and strategies that you can do headed into a recessional prospect or something that's gonna take place? Michael: Oh, so what are some things we can do? Because we're like, in that situation coming in, a Mary Ann: lot of people are So, key thing first, own your space. What is your, what is your niche?Where are you, who's, what's your vertical that you're gonna be in? But huge piece of it is also, so know that audience, know your audience and get to know it better. And when you get to know your audience even better to that level where you can list 10 things about who your ideal customer is, and you can have that full line out there to be able to do it, you will be able to strategically build content that will reach them.You will be able to have your ad buys be more strategically done. One thing that I think is really imperative actually, especially in the dental space, in the dental practice and the medical space, is that we don't actually think of media as being a positive necessarily paid media specifically, because, you know, if I'm good enough as a dentist or if I'm good enough as a doctor, I don't necessarily need to have media.Right. But no, in reality in today's world, you have to have that presence out there. So how do you, how do you start building everything that you can to recover recession, even before recession starts to happen? Start building content to your, to your audience. So know that audience. Start building content to the audience and strategically start doing paid advertising with it.I call using the paid portion of it and the paid media side of it as leapfrog. So you're gonna wanna do your ppc. So that you're showing up on searches, you're gonna wanna do some programmatic targeting. So programmatic targeting, cuz a lot of people get confused on what programmatic is. Mm-hmm. But programmatic targeting is it's a bidding process.When I start in a media, you used to do an R F P and say, okay, TV radio station, gimme what your rates are, put the plan together and go from there. Now it just automates it where now I don't have to get a rate card from a website. I go in and I'm bidding on the individual. That I want to see the ad. So I'm bidding on that impression and I'm able to target that impression based by my audience.So the more I know my audience, the more I can bid towards that audience and bid for that impression specifically to them. And the more first party data you have, you can also target in that manner. Do you know who, do you have email list? Do you have things that you can really target with? Do you have addresses that then we can do IP targeting with?There's various things there. So. The one, the very first reaction of recessions are happening and recessions are about to happen. Mm-hmm. Is everybody just retreats back in and is turns into turtles and we're like, we're just gonna hold onto everything. Mm-hmm. And in reality, this is the time that you can play leapfrog and actually go above your competition, stand out a little bit more.You just have to be strategic at it. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So programmatic, you mentioned something called R F P. What Mary Ann: is that? Yeah, an RFP is request for proposal. So that would be, that was, that's the old school way of doing media. There's still ways that we would do it where you you need your television, you need your radio print, outdoor, but a lot of that's starting to move into programmatic, so you can start bidding outdoor programmatically, some TV and some radio.You're bidding programmatically as well, but, some of the old school ways of doing it. If you need those traditional platforms, which I'm a big believer that traditional is not dead. Mm-hmm. We have traditional and digital and you ha you just need to know how to do the two together. Michael: Gotcha. When it comes to traditional marketing, what falls under that Mary Ann: in your eyes?So, tv, radio, print, out of home, those are the ca billboards, various things there. Buses that falls into traditional, except for now, programmatic wise, we're able to do a lot more with that, with digital billboards and digital things that are out there that we can bid to be able to actually programmatically bid that as opposed to having to do it on the traditional front.Michael: So how can we use both? Mary Ann: here's the key thing. You need to use both. Mm-hmm. So again, I'm gonna go back to get to know your audience. Who is your audience? Who is it exactly that you want to reach? And we're gone in the day of thinking of just a demographic. know in a dental practice and various things that you're thinking, I just, everybody is my.Ideal client, right? Because everybody has teeth. Well, okay, but who, when you see your patients come in, who do you know is that sweet spot client? Who is that person? That is the individual that you go, okay, that is who I want to duplicate to have in my chair all the time. Somebody who, who is easier going, maybe has a full family, that you're gonna get multiple cleanings a year out of.What is it that you want to do there? Who is the decision maker in the household? What are the things that are taking place? Identify clearly who you want and then from there you're gonna be able to strategy reaching out into all of these different audiences that you're looking at. But it's not a demographic anymore.Okay, so we're not looking at adults 18 to 50 fours who are reaching No, because I am gonna reach the 18 year old differently than I am the 54 year old. I'm going to more strategically say I would like to target women who are mothers at the age of 35 to 45, have two plus children in the household who maybe are employed as well have, you're giving those persona.Identifications as opposed to just a demographic, a wide net, you're actually narrowing it down into a persona and an individual targeting system that you're looking at. So Michael: can we come up with a plan for, for that, like specifically the example you gave us, like, well, let's just say the patient I want is.The family, right. But I'm gonna target the, the mom or the woman. Right? And from that point on, she's making maybe like, you know, she's the other working or together as a household. They're making 150 k plus they have two children. What now do I do as far as when it comes to traditional and digital? I.Mary Ann: So would I would a couple of things here. So unless you as a practice are investing in the multiple tools to know where she is, I would find a great partner. So there's a difference between a partner and a vendor. A vendor would be somebody that really goes into that is a TV station, that is a radio station.Those are great people. I love 'em. They're great people. Nothing bad there. However, in this type of targeting, You want a partner that is similar to like our, our firm, where you come in and somebody can outline for you and help you. You say, okay, here's my ideal customer, and then. You're looking for a strategic partner at that point that can say, okay, then I can help build out your plan for you, and here's your strategy, here's your plan.This is where we're going, and we're gonna base it off of what budget you wanna spend. Various things there. So there's that difference. Huge difference between the fact of having A vendor and a strategic partner. Strategic strategic partners are night and day. They're gonna be part of your team.That's how you should be seeing them as part of your team. So when you're building this, you're looking at, okay, I wanna build my, plan towards a woman that's 35 to 45 years old. So I'm gonna look in that. She has, she's a family, family of. Four plus, you know, hold household. She works, this is her household income.On the programmatic space. I'm actually going to be able to target based off of her income, based off of family size, based off of which neighborhood she lives in, which neighborhood she doesn't live in, what kind of car she might drive. That might be something I would put in there. Various activities.Is she a gardener? Is she. Does she like to run as a hobby? Very. Is she outdoors? What types of targets would I look at? That I know her hobbies are you don't have to go that deep. You are fine to not, you want to know who she is for which in which you're trying to target. So the family of four, the age range where she's gonna be.So I'm gonna actually build a model about this persona. Mm-hmm. Find out where she is, find out where she's going to be, and then from there I'm gonna figure out the programmatic tactics that are gonna work best for her. I'm gonna make sure that we have our p c, our Google and our Bing taken care of there on that front.So if she's searching for us and she's looking for a new dentist, maybe she's even new to the area. And that's another layer of something that I wanna put in there. And making sure that it, when she's Googling, she's able to find it. And then on the traditional side. So that's all my digital stuff.I'm gonna look programmatically, where is she? Where is it display? Is it video? Is it connected tv? What is she gonna be on? A lot? And I will tell you right now, she will be on streaming. So look at TV in that manner. And then I'm gonna go over here on the traditional side. Where is she gonna be? Now that's gonna depend on the market that I'm in.So it's gonna be varied. And this is why a strategic partner is also important because they will have access to ratings. They will have access to information like in your market in Los Angeles. I'm gonna have access. I have access to all the numbers. I have access to all the information that I need to have.To see who's watching what, who's listening to what, what billboards have the most traffic, what various things, what's the best place for me to place it. So in that sense, depending on the market, TV's probably not going to be your best option unless it's a live event that she's gonna listen to and watch.Okay. But live events mean local news. It means sporting events, various things. If her kids are gonna be, if if there's a live events that kids are playing or things like that, then she might be a part of that. That's where your TV's gonna come in. When it comes to radio, that's probably where you're actually gonna reach her the most.So you wanna make sure you have your digital portion. That, that's where you're reaching her the most. But then you're gonna back it up with your radio to make sure that she's getting high frequency over and over and over again. Cuz believe it or not, local radio is still very highly consumed and people listen to it.People love to, especially women during covid, we saw starting to turn to local radio to find out. what the counts were in their county, what were various things that they needed to know? What were the new regulations? And these are habits that developed over such a quick period of time that kept going, that their habits are still there.So radio's gonna be your best option. And outdoor, those are gonna be the two key things that you're gonna bring in with that. With that digital plan as well, because you wanna make sure that you have high frequency and that they're seeing, they feel like they're seeing you everywhere and they're hearing you everywhere.It's an omnichannel approach, but you don't have to have the budget spread so thin that you're just condensing it into one area and you're making sure that your digital and your traditional are working together. Michael: Hmm. So it feels like, man, they're everywhere, but really it's just targeted. They're going after that specific person now.Real quick, how do you get that information when it comes to like, oh, okay, everybody in, I know all the ratings and stuff like that. Is there a place or you have to subscribe to 'em, Mary Ann: you have to pay for 'em. Um, So that's why having a strategic partner is really important because you're having to subscribe, you're having research tools, various things we use and utilize.This is all we do, right? So just like you would not want me put a filling into your tooth because I'm not a dentist. You don't want me to do that, right? Mm-hmm. So as dental professionals, You guys don't need to do the media. You don't need to think about that side of it or that strategy side of it.Outsourcing it actually probably will not cost you any extra money to have that portion of it. So if you're looking at having strategy, having various things, your return on investment is so high, but also the actual placement. There's various ways that it's actually not gonna be, it's negligible in comparison to you doing it yourself.When you think about you, let's say you're a dentist that's owning, that owns a practice, and your time and your team's time, that is going into your marketing or your media. That's a return on investment where they can be in the office doing other things. They can be doing it. They can be in the office focusing on the patients, making sure that that portion is there.Outsource that part and find a good partner that you can trust and be a part of and work with, because that's where it goes hand in hand. That's where you need to know in today's world, collaborating together is the best way to get the most outta your business plan. Michael: I like that. So then when it comes down to this, let's just say, Startups, right?It's like a super lean budget. And then they're like, Marianne, like, you know, I want to, I wanna do this. My budget is like bare, bare minimum. Yeah. Can we still do that or Mary Ann: no? Absolutely. And you should. So, knowing and starting even with a bare minimum budget, you should be looking at what are my marketing efforts that I'm gonna go into it.You have to see it as an investment because if you are a startup, your brand recognition is zero. Nobody knows who you are. Nobody knows what you're doing. Nobody knows what your specialty is. Nobody has a clue, right? So you have to identify and know, all right, I'm going into this as a startup, I need to make sure that I am building a plan there.Even if it's minimal, you'll wanna make sure that you're investing somewhere. So, that's again where a good strategic partner comes in because they'll be able to help you and say, okay, hey, how do I make sure. That I'm doing what I need to do with this budget. Here's this budget, this is what I have set aside.What can I do with it? But that's where a good strategic partner will be able to say, okay, here's a few options for you. It's not necessarily just cookie cutter. This is the only thing for you. It's making sure that there's a few options. Michael: Okay. I like that. And now, Maybe this has happened to you before, but you know how sometimes you're like, this is my target, this is who I want to get.You get them, but then, you know, other people start hearing Yep. Maybe not in that age range or anything like that, and then they, they come in and you're like, oh, I love this type of patient too. Yep. Different generations, right. Is there a specific type of marketing for that? Yes. Or do we have to change it, or how does that Mary Ann: look?No, no. In fact, you don't wanna change it. So you want to stay steady where you are. And I called that your baseline plan. So that's your baseline targeter and who you're targeting. So you're, you're gonna target this baseline plan, who is your ideal customer? From there, you can have multiple targets and multiple personas that you're looking at.So if you start to see, hey, This audience segment is actually influencing the family as well. And now I'm growing as a firm. Now I'm growing as a practice. I actually have a little bit more money that I can invest in this target as well. So it's a layer. So you're gonna start with your foundation, and especially if you're a startup, start with that foundation and then you're building to get to that point, right?And you're gradually adding things to it. When you're marketing and your media budget start to shrink back. As a practice, no matter how long you've been in, you really need to look at that and assess it and decide why am I wanting to shrink back? Do I think that it's actually because I don't need any more customers, that I don't need any more patients?Well, in reality, you actually, the longer you've been around, the more you actually are going to have to promote to get new customers and to get new patients. You have to keep it going. It's not something that is a set and forget it, and it's not something that you start and pause. You actually need consistent branding and consistent media out there for you especially in today's world and especially with how many competitors you will have in a market.Michael: Mm. Gotcha. Okay. I like that. And then I know like a lot of the times we tend to, you've seen it, right? Traditional has been evolving into like what it is now, digital and things like that. People are on social media and you know, all these other platforms and everything like that. Is there a specific one where you're like, Hey, look, you need a focus.Everybody should be focusing on this media right now, at least, or is there a best one? Worst Mary Ann: one, each one has its strengths, right? So it depends on its goals. You're looking at traditional, I talked about traditional, a little bit of what the strengths are there. TV you're looking at live events.That's where your strength is. If your target audience is men, television still is pretty highly consumed by men. Mostly in the live sports arena, and that's where you're gonna be. Although we see an increase in female numbers too with live sports. So across the board, that's where you're gonna see that.And then in radio it's more informational. So your weather updates, your traffic updates, those types of things that you're gonna see that are key for you to be a part of in radio. Now when it comes to programmatic, right now, you, no matter what, you need to be looking at programmatic, you need to be looking at Google p c being p ppc, very sync.So, paper per click and seo. That's what you need to be looking at. But programmatic is where that is the future of media. That is the future of how we're consuming when I started my career, well over 20 years ago. Programmatic was not an option. Obviously, it wasn't anything that you could really do.You had, your f. Few options. It's pretty much four. That's it. And that's what you were gonna buy in every market. Now you have so many options of what you can do and go after and target. So programmatic is definitely something that you need to be looking at. Social platforms, I'm going to say this as loud as I possibly can.Social platforms are no longer a targeting tool. Social platforms are a branding tool. Overall brand recognition period. Do not try to use it as a targeting tool. There is no longer availability or possibility with cookies, with various things on Facebook that you cannot target the same way you can. We can do lookalike audiences, various things there on social media.Mm-hmm. But that's not a targeting tool like it used to be. Programmatic is now your targeting tool. That's where you want to use. You're targeting and that's where you wanna use your focus, not social media. So each one has its strength, each area has its strength. But if you're not doing something digitally, you definitely need to refocus and do something digitally.Hmm. Michael: Okay. So when people say sometimes, cuz there's a lot of types of like. Influencer marketing on social media, then people I know we, we know a couple dentists who they say like, yeah, you know, my new patients from like Instagram. That's more cuz of like brand awareness Mary Ann: or It is. It absolutely is. So it, there is nothing wrong with that.And there is nothing wrong with influencers. We do a lot in the influencer space. There is nothing wrong with that. You just wanna use it correctly. It is not the same targeting tool that it once was, and that's what you need to think about it. If you have first party data, if you have emails, you have various things there.Algorithms are gonna show how things are targeted to that and what. In that sense where the algorithms are gonna pick it up, but you as a marketer are not gonna be able to use it the same level that you've done before. When and when I'm talking targeting, I'm talking like the multiple layers of targeting of who my ideal customer is.Not just broad, I'm talking very, very in depth. That's where programmatic comes in space now, and that's where that it's starting to take over in that area. Instagram's a great place for you to be and if that is where you're getting most of your customers, great. keep budget in Instagram, keep budget on Facebook.However past that, add programmatic for that additional targeting of that customer and where they're gonna go. Again, it's that omnichannel approach cuz now I'm able to actually target them in even further and to be able to go down that path with programmatic. Michael: Okay, so you said use it correctly. Social.What, what have you seen where you're like, oh my gosh, you're using it super, not even good. You know what I mean? What are the pros and cons Mary Ann: of that? So you wanna make sure, again, you're thinking brand recognition more than you are. Very specific. Targeting and who you're, who you're looking at, but your content still needs to be specific to who you wanna talk to.That's where, so yes, it's overall branding. However, your content needs to be driven to that target audience, no matter what platform you're on, because if they do see it, if they, if it comes across their path, that's where that targeting. Message point comes in. So when it's done poorly is when it's a very broad message.Mm-hmm. As opposed to a very targeted message, meaning your message itself is talking to a specific person. Even if you're using a broad platform or a branding platform when it's done best videos work really well, more than still images. We know that, we know statistically speaking. And 15 seconds or less is what you wanna do.And what you can look at too, if you are doing videos, if you have that kind of content that you're putting out there, absolutely. Look at adding a programmatic pre-roll layer to that, or a connected TV layer to that, because that's where you're gonna target your audience. Audience even further. Michael: Okay?When it comes to tv, especially streaming, how expensive is that? Mary Ann: So now programmatically when it comes to streaming, that's how you're getting streaming tv. for the most part, so you do have your local TV vendors that you can still work with that are various things. I would actually suggest not buying programmatic through them.I would suggest finding a strategic partner to buy it through that has a direct seat on a d s DSP and that you're able to use use that instead. The buying directly through the vendor, your cpm or cost per impression, is usually, typically higher and not necessarily, as quality. It can be, but not necessarily.So when you're buying it on the programmatic side, you have a little bit more controls of what you can do, but you are buying it by the impression. So it actually buying streaming TV can actually be more affordable than you would think. Specifically. If I'm gonna take a step back and not talk just tv, connected TV or O t t, which is over the top television. If I'm looking at pre-roll, that's actually more affordable than people realize or recognize. So those are 15 seconds, 15 second ads that are gonna run before another ad or are gonna insert site an ad. Right. So pre or mid-roll. And those are the ones that you also need to think about. It's not as expensive as you would think.Digital has allowed it to be more affordable that we are able to build budgets based off of what your size is. Based off of what kind of budget you have to actually make it a strategic plan no matter what size the budget is. Michael: Oh, actually, okay. So that would be like Hulu, places like that, right?Cause I don't know if, does Netflix even have commercials or no? I don't know. Mary Ann: Not yet. They'll, they, so you have your Amazon Prime, so you've got your Hulu, you've got your Amazon, but you also then have, if you're a direct seat on A D S P, you have anything that's streaming all the various.There's tons of streaming outlets that are out there. Michael: What, what does D S P stand Mary Ann: for? D S P is demi demand side platform, and that is the bidding capability that takes place. It's literally, software and automation that allows you to bid in the programmatic space. And it's, it's very expensive to be, to don't.As a dental practice, I would not suggest you trying to do it yourself because, and find a partner that is a direct seat and that's a question that you wanna ask. Are you a direct seat? And that way you have that capability of having that team because it's a good couple million dollar investment to be able to do that.But you wanna make sure that you have that that capability because then you have somebody, if they've built their team correctly, they're optimizing, they're doing various things for you on your behalf every day. Michael: Wait, so it's a million dollars for the practice or no. For you, Mary Ann: for the, like, you, so, so to be a direct seat is not, it's not.It is not cheap. It is, it's okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So find a partner that's a direct seat. Mm-hmm. As opposed to you trying to do it yourself. Yeah. I would assume you'll, you'll take advantage of the fact if you don't, if you don't have a large budget, and even if you do have a large budget, but it's not in the millions and we're talking millions, not just a million, we're talking millions.If it's not in that category, then you need to think about what kind of strategies you wanna have in partnering with. Being able to get that done. Plus you have to have the team on top of it to optimize and to be able to do all the bidding and to be able to do the work. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know, yeah, especially if you're starting up or anything like that, it's not gonna be in the millions, right?Like the No. Mary Ann: Correct. And nor should it be. You don't need to be in the millions. Um, So find a partner that is that direct seat for you that is able to, they take their volume. So if you work with us, we take our volume and we, we do. Millions and tens and twenties and you know, we are over a hundred million at times.That's what, kind of work we do in placement. So take the advantage of our millions and be able to place. Mm-hmm. So take advantage of how much we are placing. On behalf get on our backs of being able to negotiate that for you and use our leverage overall of what we're able to do, as opposed to you trying to spend a couple thousand dollars to be able to get the same kind of leverage, you're not going to.Michael: Yeah. But I appreciate that, Marianne. I appreciate that. Like we can tell you, this is who my, this is who I wanna see. Right? And then you can kind of create something and then say, this is the routes we need to go through. Instead of me going like, I want. You know, Google ads and then at the same time, I, I want social media marketing and they're like, okay, it's gonna cost you this much and this mu, you know what I mean?Kind of thing. Yeah. It's a different Mary Ann: approach. It's very stressful actually. So when you are starting a practice, especially a startup, but even if you're mid practice, if you're a few years in and you're looking, okay, we're about to hit a recession, I need to revamp and rebrand, whatever it is I need to do or just retarget of where I need to be.Having a strategic partner that can outline all of it for you is better than you going, Hey, social media person. Hey Google person. Hey and hey, programmatic person. Hey TV person. That's stress on you and your staff, where that can be you providing more services to your patients, your staff, providing more services to your patients.It's more efficient and it's, it's be, it's offering better efficiency for your patients, but it's also a better investment for you to be actually working with a partner to get it done as opposed to distributing it and, Just you trying to keep track of all of it or having your own in-house person. The other piece is having your own in-house marketing person.That can be a benefit. However, at the same time, you wanna make sure that you're, you're still doing your media practices and the media things that you need to do because you're gonna lose your audience. You need to stay consistent in that, your in-house person needs a strategic partner in media.Media is very specialized today, and you still need that in-house partner for your media. Michael: Yeah, I agree. So then what can a dentist do today to improve their marketing? Mary Ann: So first, evaluate it, look and see where it is. If you're a startup. Make sure that it's included in your plans. Make sure that you market the media portion of your marketing plan is there and make sure that there is budget set aside for it.But if you're, if you're a practice that's been a practice for a couple of years, make sure that you reevaluate regularly. So look at it and say, okay, every year, what options do I wanna look at? What do I wanna make sure I increase? What do I make sure? Where has my audience shifted? What are various things that I need to, I do, I have my foundational audience and I need to maybe add some layers on top of it.So reevaluate. Find that partner that can help you evaluate, find that unbiased and treat that partner like they're part of the team. That's the key thing. A lot of times that relationship and where it doesn't go as well is when you're looking at the partner almost like, oh, you're just a check. I have to cut.Mm-hmm. And in reality, don't think of it as just a check. You have to cut it. Think of it as that's what's getting customers and patients through my door. That is a funnel process that's taking place and. You, if you feel, eh, that's just a partner, that's just, that's not a partner, that's just a check. I have to cut, reevaluate that relationship as well.Reevaluate. I want a partner, I want somebody who I feel good about it, but also make sure that you have an open heart to have a partner with it. Not to just say, Ugh, you know, and have that, make sure we're your mi your mindset's in the right place. frankly, Dentists have a huge opportunity in their media and their marketing.Mm-hmm. Huge opportunities because there's a lot of targeting that you can do based off of dental habits based off of various things in the programmatic space that you can look at and say, you know, where are, what are some things that they've done habit wise over the last year, a couple years that we can target.There's blueprinting where you can even target. Competitors locations for ads to be served about you. When somebody walks through a door you can also use blueprinting to track people coming into your door. How do, how are they coming in? How is that happening? So on the digital side, there's so many options and dentists have huge amounts of options in that space.Michael: Okay. I like that. It, it is interesting you say that. I, I always wanted to know, like from the agency side, from you, especially working with practices and things like that. Where do you see the ball being dropped when it comes to like, Hey, you know what I, and then they may, I mean, maybe it could be the agency's ball or maybe it not, you know what I mean?So where do you see the ball being dropped? Mary Ann: So I think the ball is being dropped when in. I can completely understand this because I'm a business owner, right? And I'm running a business myself, and at times as the business owner, which you as the doctor of the practice, if it is your practice, you're the business owner.And sometimes we can be distracted by the business portion of it as opposed to, okay, what is our marketing? Which at the end of the day is what drives our sales and gets people in the door. So when you have that meeting with your partner once a month, once a quarter, whatever it is, that's set up for you.Take advantage of that time. A lot of times where the Dr. Ball is dropped is when the dentists or whoever it is that's marketing just sees it as the marketing meeting for the month where that person is only answering to them of telling them, updating them. No. Take advantage of that partnership time of the, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking this.Take advantage. Have notes. Be prepared yourself, not just them. Be prepared for you. Now that being said, On the other side of it, if they're coming to your marketing meetings and they're not prepared, they're not showing reports, they're not showing insights, they're not showing you things of what's been taking place, you need to evaluate that relationship as well.So there, it's both sides of the coin here, but you have to do multiple things, um, to be able to do it. You as the doctor, need to be prepared at that marketing meeting to ask tough questions and to write them down, because in between, from meeting to meeting, you will have thoughts, oh, I need to talk to so-and-so about that.I need to talk to 'em about this. Write them down. Have a marketing list and a media list for your partner and for your team. And then when you're in those meetings and when you're in there, you're prepared, you're ready to go. And you can say, okay, I was thinking this. I was thinking this. I was thinking this.And you'll get that collaboration back and forth. So where I see the ball drop the most is doctors that are checking the list as opposed to wanting a partner that will collaborate with them. Find that marketing strategic partner that's going to collaborate with you and work with you. Take advantage of that.When they are sitting there for that meeting with you, take advantage of the fact that they can collaborate with you. Michael: Okay, I like that. Now these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry. What would you Marianne like to see more from a dentist?Ooh. Mary Ann: So I think where I see it go well is where every dentist, I think mm-hmm. Wants it to be, well, I go to Dr. So-and-so and I'm not going anywhere else. That's Dr. So-and-so where you trust them so much that they're not, they are not gonna switch. Mm-hmm. Where they don't wanna see is the sale is hard on them, right?So they don't wanna see, Hey, you're a new dentist that I've never gone to. I'm here, but now all of a sudden I have. Four cavities and I need a crown. I'm very confused. Where six months ago I didn't need any of that. Can you explain why? So you have to approach if there's a need and if there's something that is there.Automatically people kind of question things. We are, we as human beings analyze, we overanalyze, hence actually why media consumption is at an all-time high. Because in Covid we analyzed everything and we wanted to gather information. That's what we do to survive, right? Mm-hmm. But in this case, When you, when I can trust my dentist for anything, I don't care what my dentist is like.I have that kind of a relationship personally with my dentist. Mm-hmm. No matter what he says to do, I will do it. And because he's telling me that, and I've trusted him for years in that, I've had dentists in the past where I'm like, Hmm, I don't trust that. I don't like it. I'm not sure it's there. Right.Whether or not that was real. But in reality, it's how you talk to your patients and it's how you communicate to your parent patients and explain to your patients what services they need that is gonna build that trust. Don't underestimate the the message when you are talking to your patient when they're in the chair.Don't underestimate that when your technicians and your hygiene technicians are talking to them in their chair. Don't underestimate that communication and how important that form of communication actually is. Are you, as the, are your hygienists getting to know your patients well? Are they getting to know the personal side of their life?Are they, they're in the chair for a while? Yes. Your hands are in their mouth, but they're in the chair for a while. There are things you can get to know. The hygienists that AC that usually are the best. Talk about the patient. They don't talk about themselves, they talk about the patient, and then what information is that that can then go to the doctor and then the doctor gets to know the patient.Right? That's where, on that side of it, don't underestimate the client relation side. Think of your patient as a client, not just a patient that is a client that you wanna have returned customers from. Mm-hmm. Ok. And they're the biggest referral. They're the biggest referrals. They will refer you all day long.Michael: Yeah. No, I really appreciate that, that that's, that's true. When it comes to the two that you mentioned, like the practices, what were you noticing with the dentist where it's like, I guess the communication was, was completely different. Mary Ann: So I'll tell you, and my, my dentist now, his name's Dr. Clark, love him.Love to give him a shout out whenever I possibly can. That's my personal dentist, right? Yeah. And he is a phenomenal communicator, but he tells me, Hey, this is what we're seeing. This is what's going on. This is where things need to be. My whole family, we all trust him in that because of how he honestly communicates, to me, he makes me feel like, okay, I understand, and that's what's really important as opposed to where I've had doctors or dentists.It's not just in the dental field, it's all across the board. This is what you need and this is why, and it's not even, this is why it's, this is what you need. And a lot of patients are confused because it's not their profession, it's not what they do. And as dentists and as medical professionals, take a step back and remember, your patients are not dentists, your patients are not in the dental practice, they actually don't understand.Mm-hmm. And nor should they understand they're hiring you for your expertise, for you to explain it to them, for you to tell them why their son has four cavities. It stinks. We've done, we've even done, we've done the fluoride treatments in the past, but this is what's happened. He's six, this is, it's his baby teeth, you know, whatever.Explain all those things to them. They don't know, and you're assuming that they know they don't remember. You are the one that is the expert in the room at that point. Own that expertise. Just like how when somebody comes to me and they're a dentist and they're a dental practice. Own the fact that in media, you don't have to be the expert in that.And that's okay. I should be explaining it to you. My team should be explaining it to you in that, and in that mindset. Yeah. Michael: Okay. Okay. And so the next question is, what do you hate or dislike about dentistry? Ooh. Mary Ann: Well, nobody likes to get any kind of certain treatments done, but mm-hmm. I'll tell you this though.I mean, if you've had, and I've been very blessed with good teeth, knock on wood. and still in my forties only have had one cavity, so I'm, I'm happy with that. So, I mean, I'll, I'll be, I, I take that, I'll, I'll wear the little badge of pride, although I'm not as good as my husband who has never had a cavity.Wow. But whatever. Not fair at all. But anyway, he says it's because of the fluoride and the water in Anchorage. He grew up in Anchorage. But anyway, so that being said, things that you hate, I think it is that bad communication. That's where it's always gone wrong for me with any type of medical practice or any kind of dentist.And this is me personally, If there's not that good communication, that clear communication that makes me feel safe, that makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing for my health that is clearly communicating that that's what I don't like. That's where, and frankly, that's no patient likes that.Michael: Okay. Gotcha. So no, kinda like just bland communication where you feel like, all right, we gotta get in, get out, boom. Kind Mary Ann: of thing. Yeah. You don't wanna feel, you don't want to feel like cattle moving in and out. Mm-hmm. And. There, there are. Now I will say this, there are some dental practices that have worked really well and efficient of getting people in and out, but there's still moments for that personal touch so that you can get people quickly in and out, but them still feel like they're getting that customer service or that attention that they want.They want that attentive acknowledgement of what they're feeling, what they're seeing, what's going on. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then, so what do you absolutely love about dentistry? Mary Ann: What do I love about dentistry? Mm-hmm. Actually, the fact that you can build relationships and long-term relationships within dentistry.So another thing I love about dentistry is the things that you can absolutely find out with the health of the body by finding out what's going on in the mouth and people. Don't. They just underestimate and average patients don't understand that there are so many different things that dentists find and save lives every day, and people forget about that.They don't know that they don't recognize it, but if you actually get into people's stories with heart disease or various things, they can tell you, and those are stories for you as dentists to be telling of, he saved my life because he saw this. And he saved my life because he saw this. Mm-hmm. That's a big deal.Those are things, other things that are happening in the body that dentists can actually identify and send them to a great expert outside of that. Michael: Yeah. Awesome. Wonderful. Maryanne, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you?Mary Ann: Absolutely. So you can go to our website, which is mosaic.agency/contact. That comes directly to my, to my email. So mosaic.agency/contact. You can find me on Twitter at Medium apps. Follow me. We put out tips every day. And information every week. You can also, if you email, if you go to mosaic.agency/contact, you will be able to get your email added to our email list.We put out email blasts every week that give information on media and various things that are going on. And then find me on LinkedIn. I love to connect uh, Maryanne Pruit, and you'll find me right there. Mosaic Media. And we, I love to connect. I love to brainstorm. If you have questions in your dental practice of how is your media working, if you want a free assessment, let us know.Michael: Awesome. So guys, as always, that's gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely go check that out. And Marianne, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Mary Ann: Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate it.‍

‍(If you DO want to work with Crimson Media Group, be sure to mention this podcast/ episode!)Reach out to Crimson Media Group here: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/crimsonmediafree/Shane always gives all our listeners a: Free Marketing Analysis (just mention our podcast name)‍‍Welcome to this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode! I'm joined by my good friend, Shane Simmons, and today we're going to explore the untapped potential of your online presence and SEO! We are hashing out the importance of tracking patient traffic and learning the nuts and bolts of an effective Search Engine Optimization campaign. In today's world, Google Maps is such a prominent part of our everyday lives, so we are going to show how YOU can best leverage it. From best practices for Google Maps, to SEO strategies we think are outdated, we're diving in the deep end today. Don't miss this opportunity to make your Google Business listing a valuable tool for growth in the digital age.‍Catch my conversation with Shane for some of his best strategies to thrive in the ever-evolving world of digital marketing!‍You can reach out to Shane Simmons here:Website: https://www.crimsonmediagroup.com/‍Other Mentions and Links:Google MapsGoogle My BusinessYelp‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Shane. So talk to us about s e O. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help us actually attract new patients through Shane: s E O? Yeah. You know, Michael, this is one of the things that in the marketing landscape, we see so much change year after year, month after month, and new technology come in and, and out and, and everything's always and in flux.But SEO has always stayed top importance for many dental practices because Google still is one of the main drivers of new patients. And so today what I really want to share with your audience is some of the insights that I've learned from. From people who are plugged into Google on what are some things that you can do to help get more new patients organically, specifically through the Google Maps, uh, or map pack as many people call it.So it's kind of a brief overview. I won't spend too much time on this, but, you know, and, and your s e o um, you know, you have two different. Areas really. You have your search results, which are like your websites that show up. Mm-hmm. You know, on the first page. And then you also have, especially for local businesses, what we call the Google Map Pack, which is like, you know, if you searched dentists near me right now, you would see, you know, three practices show up with their Google reviews, and then you may see one, you know, ad right above that.And I'm gonna focus today on that Google Map Pack because it's something that Google is putting more priority on because they control it, right? They own your Google Map listing, whereas they don't own your website, and so they want you to be in engaging with patients and updating that Google business profile.Just like you would update your website. And so there are a few things that I'm gonna talk about that can really help you, um, show up in that organically and not only show up, but actually get patients from it. Um, the first thing, and this is I think probably the most common way that people associate, using your Google business profile is, You gotta be getting Google reviews.I don't think there's any, surprise there about that. but not only is it the practice that gets the most reviews or has the most reviews, but there's two other factors here that's gonna determine showing up. One is what we call review velocity. So it's how often are those reviews coming in?Um, so sometimes. If you see especially like older practices that have 500 Google reviews and you see a practice that has a hundred Google reviews above it, and people will ask us, well, why is the practice that has 500 reviews below the practice that has a hundred? And one of the reasons for that could be the fact that the practice with a hundred got that a hundred much quicker than the practice who got that 500.So review velocity is a big portion there. That's why we recommend having some sort of. Review automation system in place to where yes, you want your team asking for reviews, but you need to have an automated system in place because that is one of the big factors that Google's looking at and, and ranking you in that map area.the second thing kind of tied to reviews is, the type of reviews that are left. So, uh, yes, somebody could leave you a five star review, but what we have found is if somebody in that review, mentions like a keyword, for example, that you're trying to rank for, that has an impact on whether or not you're showing up in the maps or not.So a perfect example of this is if somebody were to leave a review and they just said, great office, amazing doctor, you know, highly recommend. That's a great review. But if that person said, Hey, if you're looking for a dentist in Indianapolis, I highly suggest, you know, Crimson Dental office that has the keywords, dentists in Indianapolis, within that review.And that's something that Google is taking into consideration when, uh, ranking these different businesses in the Google Map pack. So that's the second thing. And then, I would say the third on this is your Google business profile. We need to treat it like our website. So remember, you know, years ago, uh, it was imperative.You had to blog, you had to blog every 30 days, um, and, and continually update and update content. And while blogs certainly have value on websites today, It's essentially that is turned into what you need to be doing with your Google business profile, which is adding update posts to that profile every 30, 45, 60 days or so, adding your services to your Google business profile, adding products on your Google business profile.And the cool thing about this, Michael, is. Google, literally like on a silver platter, hands this to you and says, here are the things that you need to do to optimize your profile to make it as effective as it can be. If you are signed into your Google account and you Google your practice, you'll see your Google business.pop up and there's like a bunch of different settings at the top now where it says, reviews, performance, all of these different things. Right below that, there's boxes of different things that'll say, you know, add a map, add an update, add a product or service, add a promotion, and they're literally right in front of your face and everybody should go in and be filling those out regularly and updating those regularly.To show Google that your profile is active, that you're an active business, and ultimately what Google's going to do is see who's most active on those Google business profiles versus those that that aren't active at all. Who's getting reviews, who's not getting reviews, and all of these things together.Start to impact where you're showing up in those Google search results. So the biggest key takeaway that I could give people in the short amount of time is make sure that your Google business profile is optimized. Make sure you're filling out all the information that Google's really looking for, cuz they're telling you right there in those settings.And, and make sure that you're, you're getting that updated regularly updating it just like you would regularly update your website. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So mainly those three factors have to be, and it all kind of revolves around at least this part right here revolves around the reviews, right?Like the review velocity, keywords in the review, and then blogs and updates, uh, post every 30 to six, one to two months, right, kind of thing. now when it comes to keywords in the reviews, I guess how can we make sure they are doing that? Or is that just kind of like, we just hope like they're two words.Shane: That, that's a good question. Some of it is hope, um, right. So some of that is, is hope, but some of it is with some of your patients that maybe you, um, you are closer with and maybe you've, you know, seen over the years you have a really, you know, good relationship with them. Just letting them know like, Hey, you know, this really helps us, if you do leave us a review, if you just mention something about, looking for a dentist in Our city, our location. it helps, us tremendously when you do it that way. So you don't have to, you know, force or make people do it. But if you just ask, you know, if, if that's a way that they could write that review, if they're going to leave you a review, uh, that's a great way to, to do that.Otherwise, uh, some of that just kind of happens naturally. Now. One thing that you can do is you can reply using some of those keywords as well. Now you don't want to keyword stuff. I'm not saying that. But let's say if somebody left that review of, you know, amazing Office, I had a, a great experience.I highly recommend. You can reply to that review, which everybody should reply to their reviews and say something like, thank you so much for choosing our, you know, Indianapolis dental practice. Like we can't wait to see you again soon. So you can still reply with a keyword like that in your review, which is also going to be helpful and show relevance to Google.Michael: Yeah. Okay. I remember working for a practice and. You know how like there's like smaller, not smaller holidays, but like we're not off for like the whole week or two weeks, or even if that was the case, it was more like if we're not shut down for like a couple months, but if we're only off for like a day or two cuz of a holiday or something like that, all they told me was to like, Hey, just update the voicemail.Right? Just say, Hey, we're closed for the Christmas holiday or whatever. Right? But we never really updated the. The Google business page. Now, if we're off, let's just say like, oh, you know, the doctor's taking a vacation, uh, and then the team decides to take off, although there's no holiday or anything. Or even if there was like one like Labor Day, would it still help to mention on there, like, we gotta adjust it, the timing?Or is it like, eh, it's just gonna take day, it's more work? Or, or no. Shane: Yeah. As far as like on the Google Business Profile listing? Yeah. Michael: Like having to go all the way and Shane: change it. Yeah, no, I definitely recommend that because a, again, it one, I mean, it's beneficial to people who are doing a search and like next week for example.Mm-hmm. Um, you know, being, uh, July 4th, uh, and then many offices are taking off. The third and the fifth as well. I'm seeing that. So if you're going to be closed those days, you need to go into your Google business profile and adjust that, uh, accordingly and let, um, Google know that you're gonna be off those days.And that does two things. One, I mean, it's gonna benefit. somebody who's doing a search maybe on Monday, and maybe they had a, an emergency and they searched dentist near me. And let's say your shows up and it says that you're open and then they call and you're actually not open. You know, that's gonna be frustrating for the patient.but the second thing is it counts as an update. Uh, you know, Google seeing that you're using that platform to update searchers on, whether you're going to be open or not. And so it has. Two benefits there. And all of those benefits are gonna tie back to, local, you know, SEO results and how you're going to show up.And one thing I, I wanted to mention too, on all of this is the key in knowing, whether or not the things that you're doing on your Google business profile, like whether or not it's making a difference or not. Everybody should have, you know, tracking set up in, in any of your marketing, because if you don't, you just, you don't know what's really bringing patients in.You can ask patients, and we always say, you know, ask patients, how did you hear about us? But let's be honest, sometimes it's hard for patients to remember where maybe they first ran into you or how they first, you know, found you online. And so that's where, you know, having call tracking set up and your Google business profile and your website, all of these things, so you can know specifically where all of these patients are coming from.And with the Google Business profile, this is something that a lot of people get mixed up on because. There's this thing called, you know, NAP consistency, which is name, address, phone number, and, and it being consistent on the web. And a lot of people would never put a tracking number on their Google business page because they wanted that consistency.Well, now Google offers an option where you can put a tracking number on your Google business profile and still have your primary number, listed on there as well. But anybody who calls from the Google business profile will call the tracking number, and then you would know who called from that. So then you can actually measure, you know, hey, we had, you know, 15 calls in June from our Google business profile, and we've been doing these things that I.Heard on the Dental Marketer podcast and in July we had, uh, 30 calls, you know, and so you can actually measure that and, and listen to those calls too. So that's something I just wanted to mention that's so important is, is having that call tracking set up so you can actually, you know, get measurable, uh, results from what you're doing.Michael: Nice. Okay. And now is there any minimal things that don't really move the needle but that have been over-glorified a little bit that you've been seeing? Shane: Yeah. You know, I think that one of them is, uh, citations or, you know, getting your practice listed on different directories. There's value to it.So, don't take it as, that's not valuable, but, The fact that you have to build out, 700 different listings, um, it's just, it's just not true. And, and Google's even come out and said that it's more so of being listed on the high authoritative sites, um, the ones that are really strong.So think of your. Facebooks your Instagrams, you know, your, uh, Yelps, even though I know there's a lot of controversy around Yelp, but at least just having like a profile. Uh, these are things that are important to kind of build that credibility with Google, but some of these sites that are like nobody's ever heard of, and then, you know, people tell you, oh, you need to have a profile on these sites for seo.It, it really doesn't move the needle anymore, on some of those. So just wanna make sure that. You know, and you can Google this and look up, uh, you know, what are the most authoritative free directory sites and just making sure that you're built out on those, keeping those updated consistently is, is really one of the main things that you can do, especially for, uh, a newer practice right off the bat.That's something that's really important. Ah, Michael: so Shannon, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, where can they reach out to you directly? Shane: Yeah, so they can always, uh, go to our website, crimson media group.com. And of course for the, the Dental Marketer, uh, podcast listeners, we always, um, offer, you know, free marketing analysis for their practice.So you can reach out there and, and get that analysis done. And then you can also, uh, find me in the dental, uh, marketer Facebook group as well, Shane Simmons. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. So Shane, I appreciate it. Thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.Thanks, Michael.‍

Today I want to tell you about our sponsor for this episode,  Olsen  Dental  Chairs!‍‍Imagine you're a dentist and you spend your whole day around the chair...   Well, Olsen has over  40 years of experience in making those long hours as comfortable as possible for both the dentist  and the patient! ‍If you're a dental professional looking for high quality, cost effective, dental equipment, check out Olson dental chairs!Click this link and mention this episode for a limited time FREE installation with your purchase!‍‍Guest: Simon CortesBusiness Name: OlsenCheck out Simon's Media:Website: https://olsenna.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100083386410139‍Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cevi_dental/‍LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cevi-dental/‍YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@cevi_dentalFlorida Dental Convention 6/29-7/1: https://www.floridadental.org/convention-ce/conventionOhio Dental Convention 9/21-9/23: https://www.oda.org/events-ce/annual-session/‍Other Mentions and Links:Bosch MotorsGoogle My BusinessDave RamseyTraction - Gabriel Weinberg‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Simplicity is key! If your dental equipment has tons of complexity to it's design, there are more things that can go wrong.Potential patients will primarily be looking things up on their phones. Take this into account with a robust Google My Business page!Showing off your office with a 360 virtual tour can be a great way for potential patients to see themselves in the practice.Don't forget to add a personal touch to all your branding! A unique online and in-person presence is more important than ever.If your dental chair costs more than a car, that's too much!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guests, Simon Cortes. Simon, how's it going? Pretty good. Pretty good. Michael, how are you doing? I'm doing pretty good, man. Thanks for asking. If you can tell us a little bit about your past, present, how did you get to where you are today?Simon: Definitely. Thanks for asking Michael. So I'm an entrepreneur in the medical space. have been in the medical space actually since I was 19. I'm 29 now, and we run a successful business for the last 10 years. We have, uh, enjoyed selling new and refurbished medical equipment to the medical providers and we are now expanding to dental and, and that's why we're here.And so we're super excited to talk about this new brand with you. Michael: Nice dude. Real quick, rewind. How'd you get into this at 19? Simon: So, um, I, I had the blessing that, um, I've enjoyed selling and since I was very young, I've always sold something in school selling, gum, selling, anything you can think of. And so when I got into high school, a little bit older, I actually started selling cars and I, I started, I did really well there. And then I worked for a medical equipment company that did imaging. And from there, I started seeing an opportunity in, in procedure chairs, I bought a chair and did well, bought a second one, did well, bought a third one, did pretty good.Then I, I dropped outta college and said, I'm gonna jump in a truck, drive all the country and sell medical equipment. So it's been awesome. It's, it is been fun. It's been a great journey and, um, we, we've grown a lot. We've had a fantastic years. And it's, it's been fun. Uh, it is the cool thing, you know, when you're not, when you're go to school, when you don't learn these things.there there's a lot of learning curves and so we, we've learned from the good, we've learned from the bad and, and we've built from it. And so thankfully we have a very successful business because of it. Michael: Gotcha, man. And so when did Olson come out to be? Simon: So last year, Olsen came to look for me and we, met in my office. They, they saw what we did. they met me. They, they enjoyed the energy that, that I brought. They enjoyed the experience. They enjoyed my story. And so we started talking about dental.always wanted to get into dental. I never did dental refurbished just because we didn't want to deal with all the hoses, the biosecurity and, and, and deal with all that. And so Olson just, they came in, they showed me an amazing product. Their quality was awesome, their, how simple their equipment was. And so because of that I was like, this is interesting.Because I do refurbishing. I know chairs, motors, PC boards, like it's the back of my hand. I'm a huge nerd when it comes to these things. And so because of that, I've enjoyed, seeing the Olsen products, how they're built, how they're made, and, and really seeing the quality of their equipment. And so because of that, I went to Brazil.I, I met the Olsen team. I met Mr. Olson, and I just fell in love with the product. And because of that, I spent lots of my time, pushing their product, advertising their products, and speaking to dentists, and I've enjoyed it. Michael: Nice, man. That's good. So then Olson came onto your team where you started selling their equipment and everything like that?A year, about a year ago. About a year ago. Simon: Yes sir. Yeah, Michael: Uhhuh. Okay man. Good stuff. So then what have you seen, I guess compared to, uh, cuz that's the thing a lot of, uh, practice owners kind of talk about, right? Is like, is it affordable? Yeah. Check, right? Is it high quality, advanced technology? is it ergonomic?All these things, right? Do patients care? And then we get those people who are like, ma'am, just have a chair, right? Patients ain't gonna, ain't gonna notice a difference or anything like that. So what are your thoughts on all this? Simon: So being in the dental industry for a year now, it's crazy the price of these chairs.Mm-hmm. I'm a firm believer, you shouldn't have to buy a dental chair that costs more than a car. I mean, I've seen some of these chairs that cost more than a 12 year old of Corolla, 2022. I mean, that's insane. And so what I love about Olsen is that, you know, it's a great chair.They use Bosch Motors, which Bosch is a well known manufacturer all over the world. They have a modern design and their pricing is super competitive. And so because of that, it's something I enjoyed. One of the main features I really do enjoy for dentists, I like to fix things, and I've met lots of dentists that like to fix things.I've met a lot of doctors that like to fix things, and when you can fix something, it's easy. The newer chairs, they're making everything high end, right? They're putting too much technology in it, making it difficult, and what I love about Olsen is simple, simple technology. It works well and one of Olsen's models is equipment made the last.And for me that's extremely important because one of the reasons I've been in business, one of the reasons I've been, I've had a successful career in what I do is I've been fixing machines that are 30 years old and we're still fixing them and we're still selling them. If you look at the equipment now, I don't know if you can still have a refurbishing business in the next 10 years.There's just a lot of things that they're doing that makes it more difficult for a normal person to fix a chair. You need a engineer to be able to fix your chair, and that's what I don't like. That's what I don't like about where we're going to the future. But what I love about Olson is they kept it simple.Their equipment has one PC board. their unit is not super complicated to get to the upholstery. It's simple. Just the whole thing is simple. And so because of that, I've really enjoyed showing their product, and displaying it too. I believe at this point, I think we're at over 150 chairs that we've installed.We actually just installed four chairs in Hawaii. My team just came back from that and the doctor was thrilled. So it's been great. It's been fun. I'm actually sitting in one of our chairs right now. I do a lot of my meetings here. Super cool. Because, Has a little massage system in it. So I sit back here, just get a little massage and I, and I love it.And so imagine if I'm enjoying that while I'm in a conference call. Imagine patients enjoy that as well. So, but that's, that's kind of what Olson is. Um, it's a really cool chair. It's something that I really recommend customers, potential customers to come in and see us at the shows, check the shows out.it's it's chair that you want to look at. and so that's one of the ways that we like to say that we're different, How we're different. Overall, it's something cool that you just wanna look at and something cool. And like I said, I've enjoyed it a lot.I've had lots of customers enjoy it. And we're hoping this year, we're gonna explode. And so that's what we're going for. Yeah. Michael: When you're at these shows, man, you have all your units there or like specific ones or? So in, Simon: in our sh last shows, we have had all of our units there. Um, this show we've decided, because this is the next one, one that's coming up, that's actually next week.Mm-hmm. Here in Florida, we're super excited about it because it's, we're doing a smaller show this time just because obviously it's our home base in Florida. We have a showroom in Florida, so we just want people to come look at the chairs and invite them to our showroom so they can see the seven. Eight different models that we have in the showroom.And so we chose a smaller booth this time. Um, but yeah. And the other shows that we've done, and so we'll be in Chicago, we'll be in New York, we're gonna be in Ohio, we're gonna be in Texas, and we, we will have large booths there to display our products so you can come and see them play with them. I've had lots of customers love them.One cool thing that we actually have right now that we did in the last show that was a hit, I mean everybody came to check this out, was our transparent share. You can see how the chair is made. And so what I was telling everybody at the event, I was like, listen, Olson is new to you and we want to show you what our insides are made out of.The reason you don't see any other chair, any other chair transparent is cuz they don't want you to see how complicated their chair is. I want you to see how simple our chair is and so that right there. Thanks to that we sold over 14 cherishes. In the show and that was awesome. so we're hoping we're gonna get the same feedback.We're gonna take the transparent chair to Florida. They're gonna check it out. They're gonna look at it, and I hope they expect the same results, simply because it's very awesome to just see. It's a simple product. You're not overcomplicating it. And for me, that's important. I know for other people that's important because Michael, I don't know if you know, but calling a service technician to come service your chair is very expensive.And if you could save that money, imagine you would want to. Yeah. Michael: How is that man? How is like the customer support and then like the, you know what I mean? Because I feel like that's, things break no matter what, right? So then it's like, Hey, how fast can I get that someone on the line, a human coming here and all that stuff.How does that look like? So this is Simon: the cool thing, and this is one of the reasons Olson's worked with us and the reason we decided to partner up together. Remember, we're in the medical industry as well, so we have technicians that we've partnered up with all over the country because the chairs are simple.I can send one of my medical techs to go out there, check the chair, and he can figure it out. He can get it done, put it together, and do it right. They have the experience. They're certified with the medical equipment. The dental equipment isn't too much. What is our goal? Our goal is for the chairs is not to fail.That's why we give our customers a five-year warranty. That's why the chairs are simple. When you overcomplicate your chairs, then yes, you should expect things to fail. Cuz when you have three, four PC boards, five PC boards in one chair, yeah chances of one breaking is is high. But when you only have one, Chances of them breaking is not as high.And so because of that, we're not really worried, too much about service calls. One of the reasons that have blown people away is if you open up a delivery system on a chair right now, your delivery system has one block that controls all your handpiece. This has been the biggest selling point we've actually had with our Olson chairs is that ours aren't a block. They're actually individual. one hand piece breaks, You can continue using your other handpieces, which means you don't have to close the room that day, stop productivity because your block is clogged. And that's something that people is blowing people away. And so it, it's, it's a, a very neat feature.Doesn't exist in the market and it's something that Olsen has that it's just blowing people away. Had Michael: you, man, that is, that is pretty awesome. So, Price-wise for these chairs compared to like other companies? I mean, like, I know we are thinking of like, maybe like densely, right? Like that's like really, really big.Right? But when it comes to this right here, practice owners, when they get their, they're starting up, they're putting this in, right? They're think thinking about the budget, how much would you say we'd have to budget for these chairs if we're like, Hey, I wanna have three ops, four ops, Simon: So Michael, the cool thing about this is our pricing is awesome.Quality is awesome. We have four level chairs. We have a hygiene chair that starts off at 6,300. Then we have our infinity chair that starts off at 14,500. So there's a range there. The differences in between our chairs is size. It's gonna be your delivery system, it's gonna be your light. So there's cool features that you get to see at the show that you'll be able to say, Hey, I want this light.I want this handpiece here. I want my three-way syringe this way. And then we set it all off for you. And so price wise, it's there. I've met some customers that I've spoken to who've spent $34,000. For just one chair. Mm-hmm. They're using our chairs right now. If you go to a website, um, olson a.com, you actually would be able to see what they've said about our chairs and they've loved it.again, $14,000, $40,000, one chair. Or you could buy four chairs for the price of one tier. And so because of that, that's just a great savings. And so I would say we're definitely in the affordable side, I would like to say, but you're not sacrificing quality. that's the important point.That's the, what everybody's asking is like, Simon, okay, your chairs are a great price. They're all, they look amazing. But are they really that good? And that's why we saw him five year warranty. If something breaks, we overnight it, we get a technician to install it. We're done. Fortunately, because we're new in the market, we haven't had it too many issues.We had one issue so far, that a doctor by accident broke the light. he broke it himself and he admitted that he broke it. He asked us for a light, and I told him, I was like, you know what, doctor? You've been a great customer here. I'll overnight the light to you. And because it was so simple, he installed it himself.Hmm. Yeah. And so instead of spending five, 600 bucks on a light and then paying a technician installed it, we just gave him the light. He installed it and he's loved the product. So I would like to say because of that, overall it's a really good share and the features it has overall, it's something that will allow you to save money.And at the end of the day, it's crazy when I see, when these potential customers that I'm working with, when they send me their budgets, when they send me what they're working with, It is insane. And so as a business owner myself, saving money is key, especially when you're starting out. And so when you have that opportunity to save money but not sacrifice quality, I think that's awesome.Michael: Yeah. That's awesome man. That's really, okay. So talking about that in your, your own mind, right? And putting your shoes as a business owner into the shoes of a practice owner. In your opinion, what can a dentist do today or practice owner do today to improve their marketing or Simon: their business? So, because I've been studying dental offices a lot, I can tell you I've actually looked a lot into this and know what I've seen.A lot of doctors, a lot of dentists, they don't invest in social media as much as they should. they don't invest in their office as much as they should. Right. When, when, I mean, they invest in their office. I don't know if you've ever seen Michael, but you can get a 360 of your whole office doesn't cost that much, and you can actually give someone that virtual tour of your office.We do that with a lot of our projects and it comes out awesome. I mean, it just looks amazing and allows that patient who's looking on their phone to see where should I go to the dentist at? And when you get to see that experience and see why, look how beautiful their equipment is, look how beautiful, how clean their office is.That's something that I would say that a lot of dentists don't take advantage of. I would say also Google my business. It's a lot of spaces I see that no one has pictures of their logo, pictures of their staff, we wanna be personal. You wanna show who you are. Like if you go to our, Google, you'll see we have over 2000 pictures.We have a, our chairs that we do of our warehouse, we wanna be personal. We want when someone calls us to speak to us, that they know who they're speaking to, that they know what's going on, and that they see our, our equipment. And for us, that's important. So I would say in the dental space, I have noticed that, that they're, they're just, when you go on, you're Googling an address, you just see a logo.Couple reviews, hopefully they're good, but you don't really see that they've invested in their online presence. And I think that's important, especially right now when everybody just looks everything up on the phone. And so I would definitely say that. I would definitely say be proud of your office.Be proud of who you are, be proud of that you're in business, and push that and share that. I think that's extremely important. Michael: Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. Like be proud of it and then invest in it right kind of thing. And that's, I guess, a way to show that you're proud of it by investing in it, like really putting in that skin in the game.You know what I mean? Kind of thing. Awesome. So now these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry right now. What would you like to see more from a dentist? Simon: I personally love my dentist. He's amazing, and he does a really good job on making you feel so comfortable when you get into his office.The atmosphere. So I would say, because I've had the same dentist for about 20 years, I would say that I would try to mirror that experience where when you get to an office, it looks clean, right? Feels clean, smells good. You you'd be surprised how many offices I've been into where it doesn't sound good.Where it doesn't look clean. And so I think that's something very important. And you think that's basic, but when you're so busy with running a, running an office dealing with patients, dealing with employees, you Ms. Small things. And so I would definitely say that would be something that I would like to see more.Um, just because I've visited lots of offices and I can tell you there's, there's a good amount of them that just don't take care of the, the general things. their work is amazing. It's just small little things that someone should be doing, they're not doing. Gotcha. Michael: That's been kind of key.Uh, I noticed that that's like a thread to you though, what doesn't smell good to you in an office where you're like, this smells like, what? Simon: I can tell you I've had an experience I've been in, in New York recently, and, um, you could tell I would like to say maybe when there's too many people in the waiting room, um, right when you overbook patients.You have too many people in there. Every now and everybody smells good. because of that, I would definitely say that's something I, I experienced just recently where you walked in and it was like, wow, maybe I should walk back out. So I, I, I would definitely say that that's one of the things that you, you would want to limit, right?When you can control your patients, when you can control how many people you book, you don't overbook the rooms, right? You don't overbook your, your procedure. You simply, Book it correctly. That way you don't have 15, 20 people a waiting room. Like me personally, my dentist. That never happens.You go in, there's not more than two or three people, and he's a busy guy, but he doesn't overbook. You come in with, he puts you back in the room and you keep going. And so that's something I've enjoyed. And also, that's one of the things I actually love. When you go there and when, at least for me, I'm a very busy guy.My appointment's at three, I get there at three. At 3 0 5, I'm sitting on a chair. And I'm gone. And I love that. And I think that's another thing that I would actually love to see as well. Cause a lot of times you get to an office, like at least for medical, and you're waiting 45 minutes just for them to see you.And so, there's a lot of things in the background that happen that, you know, patients don't know, the patients don't see, there's some things we couldn't, we can't control by not overbooking. Mm-hmm. Michael: So the, the part that makes you feel more comfortable is like, Hey, just don't overbook and then, you know what I mean?A lot of these other problems can kind of go away. Yeah. Whether it's waiting time, descents, things like that. Yeah, no, definitely. Gotcha. Okay, So then what do you love about dentistry? Simon: so on the business side, for me, what I love is, The amount of money it takes to open up to a dentist's office, I love saving people money. You know, that's one of the things I enjoy doing every day, um, in my business. And to be able to say that I can help you save 15, 20, $30,000, 40, 50, $60,000, I think that's awesome. And with Olsen, we have that opportunity. And so because of that, I would really say would love to see and continue seeing the savings that we've been able to provide, cuz when you could save five, $6,000 and invest it somewhere else.That's awesome. You know that's money. You can invest in social media. That's money You can invest in Hiring a better office manager. That's money you can invest and. On vacation, enjoying, you know, quality time with your family. And so those are all, all little things that I think are important. So when you can save that on a chair, compared to buying a 24, 25, $40,000 chair, I would definitely say that's something I'm, I really love doing on the medical side and I expect to love doing it on the dental side.Yeah. Michael: That's nice man. Typically, right. Now, if you don't mind me asking, out of the range of chairs you have, which one would you say is the most popular? Like where, the one in Hawaii, right? We just installed these all these other places. Where to you, which one would you say is more popular?Simon: So right now, our logic, it starts off at 10,500 is the most popular chair. It's, um, chair that a lot of our dentists have enjoyed. That's the chair that we just installed in Hawaii for of. He loved them. He actually, awesome doctor. He actually has an office in Hawaii and he has an office in Chicago, So he bought two of our infinities and then he ordered four of our logics for his Hawaii office.And so I would say that, Our logic is, is really, it's a great chair. it does everything you need, gives you all the, all the upgrades that you want on a chair. Our sprint chair is really good for hygienes, a fantastic hygiene chair. Our quality is a great chair for dentist who's throwing off, who's really price conscious.our logic is an amazing chair for an experienced dentist who wants a workhorse, and our infinity is for our high end dentist who just wants to look amazing, who just wants his chair to look fantastic and wants to have all the bes and whistles. And so the Infinity, we've sold a lot of those, they're beautiful chairs and they all go into high end offices that just look amazing.Michael: Gotcha. I was gonna ask that. I'm looking at your chairs right now. The logic and the. Infinity. Do you normally, let's just say we're creating the infrastructure and the outline of the the practice right now in the construction phase. Can you ever like chime in on that and say like, Hey look, I think it'd be best if you had the infinities for this and that, that, or you guys don't, you're just like, Hey, whatever.It's up to you, doctor. So Simon: fortunately we've actually been part of lots of new builds and we've also done. just replacement chairs and so when we get the be part of the construction experience, it's a lot better for the doctors. Cosmetic look of the office because we get to all the plumbing underneath the chair.When you have to add that junction box, you lose about a foot of real estate. That can be nice and clean. That could be clear, and that's awesome. I mean, I love installing these chairs where we can put. All the plumbing, electricity underneath the chair where it should be, and it just looks amazing. And so when we get to do that, it's enjoyable.And when we get to see the size of the rooms, definitely our infinity is a little bit bigger than our other chairs. And so we can tell the customer, Hey, infinity, you're not gonna get the same experience. When you have a smaller room, so for this room, we'd recommend a quality. And so because of that, yeah, we definitely enjoy being part of that process.Um, and, and it's something awesome that we get to do. You send us the blueprints, we'll send it to our tech. He'll actually put the chair in on you, your blueprints. He can show you where the arms move or the delivery system moves. It's a really cool system. You'll be able to see it all and get that experience.On top of that, we have even, even cooler experience. Let's say you like the Infinity, you can actually put the Infinity in your office. You grab your phone and you can put on an app that we have and literally see through your phone, the whole chair inside your office, and you can walk around the whole chair with your phone and see how it would actually look inside the office.That's something that a lot people have enjoyed. Um, it's something I love doing as well. Yeah, that's nice, man. Michael: I like that a lot. So then there's also the other side of this, right?Where there's really expensive ones and there's really, really non-expensive ones, cheapy ones, right? So what are the hidden costs of cheap dental chairs? So people are like, they only spent this much, man, you can get it here like on Facebook Marketplace. Or there's another D, right? There's hidden costs behind that, I'm sure.But Simon: what are they? So let's say if you buy something on Facebook, you're buying something that you don't know the history of it, right? You're buying something that you don't know who installed it. You also are looking at, does that chair still exist?Can they still buy parts for it? Right? A lot of these chairs, after a certain amount of time, the manufacturer stops making the parts for it. that's one, like, let's say starting off on Facebook, obviously you can also buy chairs from, you know, other countries overseas and you could sit, you know, you're gonna then sacrifice equality, right?Because what they do is they do mass produce and they sell as much as they can. And so obviously there's certain chairs, certain parts that are not gonna be made with the best quality part for us. One cool thing that. Olson has, is we actually build 95% of the chair in Brazil, So, in case anybody doesn't know where Brazil is, which I hope everybody does, Brazil is in South America, that's our neighbor. it's a chair that's being built with without good quality. when you're looking at Facebook, that might be something won't wanna do, because, Again, if you don't know who ins installed it, you don't know who uninstalled it, there might be parts missing.Then you don't come, so you don't have a warranty, right? That's everybody asks the question, asked them, now, where's the servicing coming from? Again, if this is a chair that you just bought, and let's say you bought it for three, $4,000 and then you gotta spend another thousand or $2,000 on it, that's expensive.A motor, a hydraulic, let's say if you have hydraulic chairs, a hydraulic motor is expensive. Hydraulic cylinders are expensive. And so that's one of, of the things again, that Olson does different. Our chairs, none of them are hydraulic. They're all electric driven by Bosch Motors, and so that makes it easier chair to fix.At the end of the day, it's gonna last longer because hydraulics, you have. Hoses there, you have pressure, you have oil. All of those things require maintenance. And so that's one of the things again that you're gonna see the difference in between an Olsen chair and our competition. Nice Michael: man.Okay, so then one last questions I wanna ask you is throughout this process, actually, throughout the time you started, se let's, let's go with that sevi Man till today, right now, just in general, man, Simon, so the audience can get to know you a little bit more. What's been some of your biggest struggles? Simon: So I think when everybody starts off, and I can tell you over the last 10 years, you, you have a goal, you have something you want to do, and that goal changes, right?When you get older, things change. When your business gets older, things change. You have different perspectives. I am a father of two. I have. My son Samuel, was about a year old. And I have my son, Theo, who's four. I can tell you, when they were born, they changed my perspective. Cause all I wanted to do was work, work, work, work before.Now I wanna spend time with them. I wanna do things different. And so I can also say, when you hire people, all I can tell you, I've, I've had over probably 150 people work for me. And I can tell you all have I learned about hiring people. Um, I think that's actually where I've made some of my biggest mistakes is hiring the wrong people or hiring with my heart.I can tell you that before I'd hire anybody, they're walking on the road. They needed a job. Hey, come here and I'll, I'll give you a job. I've learned a lot by that. we've disappointed customers because we haven't hired the right people. And so for right now, right now, I can tell you our culture, our focus, my focus is to have happy customers.I have a saying that I say a lot to all of my customers is, you know, your success is our success. If you're successful, I'm successful, so I have to make sure you're successful so I can make sure that you make another office in a year and you buy 10 shares. Then in two years you do 30.I have customers that started with me 10 years ago, but I love that. Love me. They have 13, 14 offices. I've done all of them. Working with them is amazing. Seeing them grow inspires me and allows me to continue growing. And so that's kinda one things that like we do. And one of the things I can tell you over the years I've learned from, you know, one thing is when you start off, you don't wanna just hire anybody.You know, you spend more time with your employees than what you spend at home normally. And so because of that, you don't wanna have bad employees. And not all bad employees start off as bad employees. So I, I believe that's one of the things that I've, I've struggled with a lot is, Not having the right people by me.With time with different budgets, you're able to find better people. You're able to learn different ways of doing things. And I would say what I've learned just the last year alone, cause I can tell you, last year was crazy for us. We were doing the dental, we were doing the medical cool. We grew like crazy.And what I really learned, Right now we're doing amazing as well, and we have better people and the people have changed everything and, and something I can tell you last year I wasn't focused on, and it's something right now, I'm focused on that the people who work for me, the people who are my team members, they're killing it just like we are, and that they're happy and that they're enjoying what they do.And I think that's really important. And I think when you find people that are not good, um, I'm a huge fan of Dave Ramsey and, um, he said something where if, um, you only want thoroughbreds, right? You only want thoroughbreds. You don't want donkeys working for you. And I can tell you I've had lots of donkeys working for me, and I've definitely learned from that.Oh, nice Michael: man. Great advice. Awesome. Simon, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Simon: Definitely. So if you're in Florida or if you might be in Florida next week, We are gonna be from the 29th of June to the 1st of July, we'll be in the Florida Dental Association Convention that's gonna be in the Gaylord Palms and Orlando.And so we'd be super excited to have you there just to come check out our chairs. We also have a showroom here in Orlando, Florida. Uh, we're about 45 minutes from Orlando, but it's easier to say Orlando cuz well, nobody knows where Orange City is, but we're about 45 minutes away from the airport. And so, You can also check us out on olson na.com.You can see us there, you can see us on social media, you can see us, uh, on YouTube. We love the share stuff. Our team's always making something and, and we enjoy the push out videos. And so, we would love for you to come check us out. We just want you to see our products. When someone comes to the show, I tell them, touch our chairs. Feel them. Touch our leather, touch our vinyl, go look at other chairs and come back. And I've had the fortune that a lot of them come back. And so I would definitely say you want to touch our chairs, you want to feel 'em, you wanna see what they're made out of and get to enjoy them.Michael: So what's the next event after the Florida one that you guys will be attending? Simon: Thanks for asking that, Michael. So, September 21st through September 23rd, we'll be in the Ohio Dental Convention.We're super excited. the Ohio Dental Association is gonna be making this event. They're, they are pushing it, they're inviting lots of dentists to come, and we're super excited to be part of it. And so I would love to see you there September 21st, or September 23rd. You'll see more on our website@olsonna.com and we're super excited to see you.And like I said before, I want you to come touch our chairs. Feel them, see the quality, and then go touch the competition and let us know what you think. Michael:  All right, Uhhuh. Awesome. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely go check that out and reach out to Simon and his team.And Simon, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Awesome. Simon: Thank you, Michael.‍‍

‍Hey guys, welcome to this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode! In this episode, I'm joined by website expert, Josh Hampson, to dive deep into the world of dental websites and how they can effectively build a strong brand for your practice. Discover key strategies to set yourself apart from the competition and answer the pressing questions potential patients may have. Learn why your website is your most valuable sales tool and why Josh says YES to listing price ranges on your site. Uncover the secrets to creating a low-friction experience for potential patients and how to address their pain points through your brand. We also cover when to, and when not to, invest in Search Engine Optimization(SEO) when starting up your practice. Punch that play button and get ready to transform your dental website into a powerful brand-building asset!‍You can reach out to Josh Hampson here:Website: https://www.hmpsn.studio/Blog Post: 4 Ways to Increase Appointment Bookings on Your Dental Practice WebsiteLinkedin‍Other Mentions and Links:TypeformInvisalignAirbnbDoorDashSemrushH1 and H2 Headers‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Josh. So talk to us about websites. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through our website? Josh: Yeah, definitely. So for any dental practice, where I recommend getting started is really at the foundation.Make sure that you're building a brand. So before you really think about building a website, it's important to, figure out what's gonna set you apart from your competition. Why should a potential patient. Choose to book with you over, any other dental practice in your area. So really I have a few questions that I like to answer before diving into that.I've already said, what sets you apart from your competition? What makes you a better choice than other dental practices in your area? And then this is core, but what are your ideal customers, your ideal patient's pain points? what dental services are they typically looking for? So, are they looking for general family dentistry?Are they maybe looking for pediatric dentistry for the little ones? or are they looking for more cosmetic dental services? You know, implants, veneers, those sorts of things. The other question that I like to ask is, what questions do they have about the services that they're looking for and how can you easily answer them on your website?and then, you know, this is not at all website focused, but making sure that you're creating an exceptional experience for your patients is paramount. this starts, in your marketing and bleeds all the way through into that in-office experience. So as we really think about diving into the website, once you've answered these core questions about your business, about your offerings, about how you can tailor, you know, your messaging to those ideal patients, I like to dive into the basics.So, The biggest tip that I can give anybody that's thinking about either, you know, relaunching a dental practice website or uh, if you're a brand new, practice starting from scratch don't fall into the trap of thinking that your website is just a website. I really like to think about our website as your most valuable sales tool, and it's typically, one of the first or the first touch points that you'll have with a new patient before they ever come into your studio.So with that being said, it's important to stand out. You know, I think we've all seen a lot of dental practice websites and it actually isn't that difficult to stand out in the dental space. When we look at a lot of dental websites, they feel. Somewhat sterile. And so really offering different design aspects that make you feel more personable, that feel authentic to you, authentic to your practice experience.And once again, going back to speaking to your ideal customer. So not just unloading about the services that you do, but really speaking to. How that is going to impact your customer, your patient's lives. Right. So, we all know that health starts with oral health. A lot of. Problems that we can experience really begin with, you know, what's happening in our mouths.So, speaking to that unique value proposition and positioning yourself, your practice as the uh, the guide that will help your patients solve that. Mm-hmm. And then once again, going back, what sets you apart? It's all about being authentic. It's all about You know, really setting yourself apart from other practices in your area, cuz there are tons of options.And then on top of that, your website is an integrated piece of your marketing plan, like I said earlier you know, answering questions that patients might have about any of your services. Paramount little hack there. Is, you can put these in an FAQ section. A lot of these questions are actually SEO keywords and search terms in and of themselves.So, you know, thinking about, I'm based in Austin, Texas thinking about Invisalign, how much does Invisalign cost in Austin, Texas, huge search term here. So answering that question on your website, having that keyword on your website is automatically gonna bump you up and search rankings just by simply answering a question that your patient already has and that you know that they're going to have.Nice. I do have a question Michael: about the, the website. When you, I guess, put yourself in it, your brand, you know, like the loudest page and things like that. Or about the practice, do you prefer or do you think it's better to speak from like a third party or like, it looks like the doctor's actually saying like, I love this community and I love, or the doctor loves this community, and what's better?Josh: I think it really depends on the size of your practice. So if you're solo, you're the only doctor in your practice, I think that having that type of you know, one-on-one conversation with a patient is um, the way to go. If you've got many, many, many doctors in your practice, maybe multiple locations I would recommend kind of saying, this is what we are about.And then you can always do like a letter from the founder or blog post from the founder. Mm-hmm. Um, I think is a really great option there. Gotcha. Okay, cool. And then going back to really making it easy to find answer or for your patients to find answers to their questions. One of my favorite dental hacks is an insurance verification form.We typically use type form, which allows you to set up. Essentially this is gonna get a little developer, but uh, bit of conditional logic where you can upload all of the different insurances that your practice accepts. And then anything that you don't accept, and then set that form up so that you're grabbing patient's name, their email address what insurance they will be potentially using with your practice.And from there you can conditionally then display. We take your insurance, let's go ahead and book your appointment. We don't take your insurance, but you can then direct them to maybe you have like an in studio membership option. But what you're doing there is making it one easy to answer whether or not you accept their insurance.Two, you're also capturing that lead and able to follow up with them. In the instance that you do accept their insurance and they didn't quite make the jump to uh, schedule that appointment. You can always follow up and convert that lead, that's kind of one of the most valuable tools that we've employed lately.Michael: Gotcha. When it comes to that, like, okay, how much is in, how much does Invisalign cost? Or how much are implants? Or, you know what I mean? Would you prefer to have the price on the website? Like, just, just put it out there or, cuz you know how some people are like, well, don't put the price out there. You know what I mean?You're gonna deter people and have them call for, you know what I mean? And then that kind of doesn't answer the question that Google wants. Right. Yeah, Josh: so I'm a big, big proponent of including pricing on your website, whether it's, you know, a dental website or you know, a SaaS website. Think about how many times you have been looking for the price of really any product or service and can't figure that out.You're more likely to just put it off and not, Book your appointment not reach out, anything like that. What you're really doing and including pricing is once again, like validating that you are the right choice for your patients. So if they come in and they see that, your Invisalign price is out of their price range It's gonna save you a little bit of time as well to not have to answer those questions, those sorts of things.So it's gonna limit some lift on your front office staff but it's also going to help you attract your ideal customer, which is what it's all about. We want to make sure that we're getting the right people in the doors at the right time and helping 'em with the products and services that they need.Okay. Michael: Okay man. So have the price on website. Josh: Definitely. And big thing with that, I know these are all variable prices, so you can always include a range. So if we're looking at an implant, we know that that can vary dramatically depending on patient's, individual you know, their individual case that sort of thing.So you can always put a range. It doesn't have to be. An implant is $3,500. Implants typically start at X and they could go up to Y depending on what your individual case looks like. Mm-hmm. Okay. Awesome. Another often overlooked Option for helping convert potential patients, to actual patients is utilizing an online booking widget or platform.So we know that. It can be kind of a hassle to schedule a dental appointment, especially if maybe you haven't been to the dentist in a while. So making it as easy as booking an Airbnb or ordering DoorDash that's really going to dramatically like boost the number of patients that are in your practice.So if they can easily figure out if you do take their insurance and then easily book online, you're just taking away. Those blockers that could keep them from booking with you. So they don't have to call. Of course they can call if they want, but we all know if things are put right in front of us, the likelihood that we'll actually move forward with doing that thing.it'll actually happen. So just streamlining that, making it as easy as possible for patients to figure out once again, if you take their insurance. And then ultimately book, paramount and getting more folks through the door. And typically most dental practice software are going to have an embedable widget.You can usually find it directly in your platform. It's just an embed code copy pasted into your website builder and seamless. So mm-hmm. Super, super easy to implement, onto your website, provided that your, uh, dental practice software has that option. Mm-hmm. And then, maybe a lot of SEO guys or SEO gals are gonna ding you for this, but I'm always hesitant to tell, especially a practice that's just starting to go full send on seo, search engine optimization.What's more important for a brand new dental practice is making sure that you have the SEO fundamentals down. So making sure that you're hitting. Keywords, relevant keywords to your area. Super, super easy to go onto a tool like a CM rush and find what those. Keywords are for your, your individual area and make sure that you're including those into your site.But I think when it comes to creating tons and tons of s e o content I generally kind of reserve that for practices that are at least like a year old. it takes time. It's. A costly endeavor. And I think more important for a brand new practice is making sure that you're really growing your book, providing an excellent in-office experience, those sorts of things.But like I said, I see o fundamentals are super, super important. Make sure that you're most siteholders would do this if you're um, You know, building your side on your own, just make sure that you've got your H one s, your H two s noted so that things from a uh, technical standpoint, Google will validate your website and start to, to rank you.All right, man. So that's nice. Michael: That's good to know about the seo especially, I feel like a lot of the times when you're getting out in the get going, like, you know, it's like kinda like crickets or like a couple new patients. You're like, Ooh, I'm paying seo. You know what I mean? Like, come on, why aren't we first on Google?Or something like that. I had to get impatient a little bit. Josh: Yeah. I mean, SEO takes time. It takes time. It's a good bit of work. And most importantly, once again, answering those questions that your patients have, because at the end of the day, like good seo. Is also good user experience, right?So answering questions um, the folks might have and directing them where they need to go is um, foundational piece of seo, last thing that I would say is, And I touched on this at the very beginning of our call, is just making sure that your website is an integrated piece of your marketing plan.So, when you have a lead come through on your website, whether it's through a contact form, that insurance verification form make sure that you follow up with those leads, especially if they do not book with you immediately. That means. They're a warm lead. They're a hot lead, and they are looking to find a place to get a dental home, essentially.Other piece, stay in touch with your existing patients. So, once they come in for that first appointment, if you didn't get the opportunity to schedule them for their second follow or for their follow-up visit during their appointment. Make sure that we're following up, three to four months after that first appointment so that we can get them scheduled for that follow up.And last but not least streamline referrals. So we all know Word of mouth is our easiest advertising tool, right? So, make sure you're streamlining referrals. There are a number of different platforms that you can use to do that, that integrate directly into your website.And once again, really, really valuable in, converting potential patients, especially after um, one of their friends, one of their colleagues has had a great experience with you. It's a shoe for them to come and get their dental services done with you as well. Mm-hmm. Nice. Michael: Okay, man.So fo yeah, focus on referrals, but it starts with building that brand, right? Building the brand and making sure all this is kind of in play and we can dive deeper into SEO and upcoming month. But, at the same time, making sure your website's, looking good. You mentioned referrals, widgets have the SEO optimization conversions, right?Getting the leads in. Yeah, man, that's it. It sounds like a little bit, but then there's a lot of moving parts, you know what I mean? And so this is the, I, I feel like this is where the listener, right, is I guess, paying for that optimization, right? Like, okay, this is where we gonna have to move, moving parts, keep up to date, all these things.Because it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Josh: Definitely. I mean, it's a lot of moving parts. our dental clients they're experts in, dentistry, right? Mm-hmm. Maybe they might not have taken a business class since, general college. And so there's a lot of moving parts and it can become very technical.So, yeah, just make sure that you're hitting all those key points and everything will fall into place. Michael: Awesome, Josh. I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find 'em on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out Josh: to you directly?Yeah, definitely. So drop on over to our website. It's www.hmpsn.studio, so just my last name with Noval. And then we've also got a dental blog post on our Website as well. It dives into a lot more of this in detail, so check that out as well. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, and Josh, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.Josh: Thanks so much, Michael. It was a blast.‍

Today we're going to introduce a game changer in the dental practice management software world...‍‍This is an innovative, all-in-one, cloud-based practice management software, and it offers an array of powerful features that are custom built for dentists by dentists ready to revolutionize the way you work. ‍If you are a start-up and decide to sign up with Oryx, they will NOT charge you a single dime, until you reached 200 active patients!⁠⁠They are partnering up with all startup practice owners and making sure you succeed, fast!⁠⁠ Click this link to schedule a FREE personalized demo and to see more on their exclusive deal!⁠‍‍Guest: Jordan SandersPractice Name: Knox Mountain DentistryCheck out Jordan's Media:Website: http://knoxmountaindentistry.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knoxmountaindentistry/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/knoxmountaindentistryEmail: jordan@knoxmountaindentistry.com‍Other Mentions and Links:Buzz MarketingInvisalignAll-Star Dental AcademyMango VoiceSwellKois Center‍The $100 Startup - Chris GuillebeauJordan on Episode 375‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Honing in on your target demographic for dentistry will simplify and elevate your marketing efforts!When making content, it's important to make sure potential patients find enjoyment and entertainment from it.Utilizing phone skills such as calling patients by name, asking open-ended questions, and asking for the appointment can bring your scheduling to the next level!Digital marketing efforts are much easier to track ROI and make adjustments based on.Ground marketing can massively boost your local presence in the community early on!Not every employee resonates with certain styles of feedback. You may need to adjust based on personality of the team member!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Hey, what's up Jordan? How's it going, man? I'm good, Michael. How you doing, my friend? It's been a year since the last 375 knocks. Wait real quick. Are you in Canada? I am, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. break it down real fast if you can. A year Jordan: ago, where were you at? Well, yeah, since the last time you and I sat down and had a little chat, it's it is changed a lot.We opened two years ago and so you kind of chatted with me about 12 months into that journey of, of the startup and, we were doing well, you know, things were, things were growing rapidly. We were adding new people to the practice. Lots of new patients were coming, and since then, it's just kept going.We've, added an associate to the practice since then. We've basically doubled our staff from where we were a year ago to where we are now. And it just really going in positive directions. I've have very grateful and thankful for all the opportunities that I've had in this practice.And it's been just a ton of fun along the way. Michael: Nice man. So real quick, could you briefly introduce your dental practice and the demographic you primarily Jordan: serve? You got it. So my name's Dr. Jarden Sanders. I own Knox Mountain Dentistry. It is a dental clinic uh, general dental clinic in Cologna, British Columbia.We are, our town is kind of. It's kind of urban. We're a growing city maybe about 200,000 people in this, in the city, but one of the most rapidly growing cities in Canada right now. Just cuz of our, we have awesome summers and awesome winters and people want to come live here for some reason.Where, Where I settle down with the practices kind of a unique spot. It was this up and coming district within Cologna that's since garnered the name, the brewery district which is neat. So we have. Tons of craft breweries and comedy places and live music and all this kind of fun, funky stuff.And as a result of that, the people that come to this practice are young. We have 3000 patients with an average age of about 32, which is super cool. it's not what I thought when I thought I'd open the doors here, cuz Colonna has been traditionally a bit of an older community.But that's changing so fast that it's just, it's moving in this direction for Michael: us. How is that man? Do you feel like they're coming in aware and they're like, look I wanna get my cleaning 32 year olds, right? Things like that? Or are they just like, dude, I your bottle hit my tooth, chipped it.Can you Jordan: fix it real fast? I mean, it's a little bit of both. We do get some of that usually it's like skis or sometimes beer bottles, but a lot of it's young families, we have. The mom typically comes in and, tests us out and then the husband shows up and the three kids and then their grandparents.And so it's kind of that, energy that we've been, we've been working with. But yeah, we set up in this really central location. Like I'm on a busy main street with large signage. And so people just, they're all moving to this area. And they just see us as they're walking by, driving by and, that's really what brings them in.So it's been kind of fortuitous. They keep building stuff around me, which is working out really well for us. Michael: Yeah. Nice man. Okay. And then, so you're a private practice, right? Solo dog, multiple doctors specialty or, yeah, Jordan: so just myself and my associate. When did you bring on your associate? It was a year ago, April.So about four months after you and I chatted, that was the, That was when I brought the associate in. Michael: Okay. And it was like once you hired them. That, was it home run perfect person or did you have to like let home associate Jordan: and bring someone else? Yeah, no, it was, it was kind of interesting. Like she, she cold called me in February.And, at that time I wasn't ready for an associate, like, I didn't feel ready. And so, you know, we were chatting and we kind of said, ah, it's like it's not the right time for the practice right now to bring on an associate. And even if it was you know, it would be. Part-time at best.And so, she went off and she found another associateship in a, in one of the adjacent towns. And she worked there for two months and then called me up again and said I hate this. I can't. Like how do we make this work? Yeah. and you know, her and I just, we clicked it was, it was great.And so I. Brought on an associate faster than I thought I was going to to get her. And it's worked out. It's worked out amazing. She's great. Did that bring pressure Michael: for you to be like, we gotta push it now to fill her schedule, do all this? Or was it like already there? There was no Jordan: pressure. Y yeah, there was definitely pressure.I, I told her, I was very honest with her. I said, this. If this was six months from now, this would be easy. It'd be no problem. But because we're doing this a little bit early, like we're, you're gonna start off slow and we're gonna have to build it up if you really want to work here.And she was okay with that. And so we just, she just hung out and just saw, you know, the emergencies that walked through the door and, I fed her most of the new patients which just actually was nice for me. It let me. Do more of the treatment that I'd had. Mm-hmm. Kind of getting built up. And since then, she's running two columns.I'm running two columns. We've got, three full-time hygienists basically every day. Is busy, you know, it's comes with the typical lulls that you get with any dental practice, you know, during the summer and during those early winter months. But, we're all doing well. Okay, Michael: man.Nice. So then what has been your experience with different marketing companies and which strategies have proved to be most effective? Jordan: Yeah. I, so I started off with the same marketing company that I'm using now. Now, like caveat to that is I do a lot of my own social media. I had, the early days of the practice.I spent a lot of time really establishing what I wanted. The brand of the practice to be and how that was gonna play itself out on the social media channels. So I do all of that and I still do all of that cuz I have quite a bit of fun doing it. But I leveraged the marketing company to deal with all of the things that I wasn't that good at.So, search engine optimization advertising on using Google AdWords and Facebook stuff. Building the website. And basically coming up with the synergy of how all of those things can work together to bring people through the front door. Probably the most successful stuff that we've had has been are, are Google, mostly Google Maps.We target a lot of people within the five kilometer demographic of the practice. Mm-hmm. So, you know, they search up dentist, we pop up in, in one of the top three because of that. And that's been really our boon with bringing new people through the front door. Ah, so who is your marketing company? They're a company called Buzz Marketing.They're local here in Colonna. They've been great. Honestly, I they've hit the, hit it out of the park every time we've done videos with them, photos with them. They, They have all the skills and the tools to do whatever I've needed them to do along the way. We did a mail marketing campaign where they did all of the graphic design.Yeah, they're just easy to work with, which has been the greatest part of it. Uhhuh Michael: true. Okay. And then you talked about you do the social media. Mm-hmm. So like, break that down for me. Does that, like, you just do the Instagram, then you schedule it out, or you just pump it out Jordan: once it, how does that Oh yeah.Yeah. I just, I just kind of you'd have to kind of understand what our Instagram is to really, to know, like we don't, I don't have a single picture of teeth on my Instagram account. Like I don't focus at all. On the tooth side of the business when it comes to social media, the social media is purely a entertainment type thing.So, we have patients come into the practice and we have this Instagram counter that sits in the front lobby that actively changes when people follow or unfollow the clinic. And so they follow it on their phone and they see the numbers flip over, which is super cool. But then it's just from there, it's just funny stuff.Like literally it's TikTok videos and stupid things that my staff and I do in the office. Our outings as a group are the things that we go do outside of clinic hours. It's really just meant to be more of a lifestyle channel than it is something that's meant to show people what. We do with teeth.It's meant to kind of, they get to see our culture. you're getting an inner look in what the culture of the office is like. And that's honestly attracted a ton of people to the clinic. They follow us on Instagram. I get a ton of engagement and every now and then I get to throw in, an Invisalign special day that we're doing.And that gets a ton of traction and people come and book because of that. Michael: And so you just post like, today I feel like posting. Yeah. Or like, like that pretty, it's never like scheduled. Jordan: when I see something coming up on the reels, that's a fun dad joke or something, I'll share that.Or, we sometimes pull pranks on each other in the office, so I'll video that and I'll put that up and yeah a bit unusual, but it's really worked for us. That was kind of the, what we established ourself as early in the day, and it's what most of our patients expect of us now.Yeah. Um, But yeah, I don't really have I don't schedule it. I don't, I, I don't use stock photography. I don't use anything that's pre-generated. I just, it's all stuff I make myself or stuff that I share from other creators. And just let it roll. Michael: Gotcha. So do you feel like having a content calendar, like, guys, it's money we gotta do, would hinder you even more, like kind of kill the sporadicness of it?Jordan: I maybe, I think it depends on what works for you. If you're creating content really, the main thing is just being engaging with your audience. know, Especially in my age category that comes to this practice. They're in their thirties, they're millennials. They're on Instagram and they're on YouTube.Like, those two avenues are huge for us. If you had an older patient population, maybe Facebook is a bit more prevalent for you. But yeah, as long as you're creating the content and keeping people engaged, I think you can do it with a schedule. That's fine. It just, it's sometimes hard to get your team on board with all that unless you're, willing to do it all yourself.Michael: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. So then how much budget. Do you typically allocate Jordan: for your marketing? Not as much as maybe would be advised. I think I'm spending, I know I'm spending about 3,200 a month right now. Most purely Google right now. I was in Facebook for a while. just found that that wasn't attracting.The type of patient that I wanted in the clinic. But what kind of Michael: patients was Jordan: it? Was it reading? A bit, a little bit flake here. Kind of what we might categorize as a lower quality patient. Someone that's a bit more, you know, impulsive in their clicking and asking questions and stuff.Some of those people wouldn't show up, or they'd, want things that we just weren't able to offer. And so, yeah, it was just, having those, having the Google presence, having people able to see us there has been really what, where the money's been spent. I thought about dialing it back.I kind of, tell myself that we've hit a critical mass where the most of the people that we get are coming from word of mouth referrals. But I haven't been able to convince myself to not spend that money yet. I think it's still doing really well for us. Michael: Okay, man. That's good. And then how many new patients are you currently Jordan: getting right now, like in a month?Varies probably high end 110. Average probably between 60 to 80 in that neighborhood. Michael: Yeah, that's pretty good, man. Yeah. And so, like, pie charted, if you can, like majority of, would you say like 80% is from goo Google? Jordan: Less so in the earlier days of the practice. Yes. I would say probably that much now, probably half most of the a good chunk as we've had self-referrals and people that have, like our, thing that we seem to attract is one person from a particular workplace will come to the clinic.And then all of a sudden we're seeing all of them. that tends to be how we've built the practice is just by collecting cohorts of people through their work conversations about, who's a dentist to see in town kind of thing. Do Michael: you tell them like, Hey man, Talk to us about your work or to your work friends or something that are, are they just naturally do it?Yeah, Jordan: We sometimes it depends on what the work is. We usually engage with our patients pretty heavily, especially in our new patient visit. I don't ask for it as much as I used to, Back in the early earlier days of the practice when I was doing a lot more of the ground marketing style stuff and really kind of trying to get people engaged.I would a hundred percent ask if I'd ask them, to tell their friends about us if they enjoyed the experience, to leave, leave a Google review. And most people were really good about that. But now I just, I don't need to do that. Yeah, people seem to do it themselves. Michael: Gotcha, man. Okay.How equipped is your team in converting calls into actual Jordan: patients? Excellent. Honestly, we did a lot of training related to phone skills and really just, how we categorize the people that that call, you so our office is set up with a phone tree that's designed to split existing patients away from new patients.And so anyone that is new to the practice will come down a specific route in that colt tree and they get a tag that's a new patient call on our end. And so we know when that comes in, that's a really high priority call. And so they bring them in and it's, we spent. Hours and hours going through verbiage and call conversion and how to bring some of that skills and get people to actually book and commit to appointments.But yeah, they're excellent. I would say they convert 80% of the calls that come in as far as new people. Yeah. Michael: That's really good man. Do you like sit down at the beginning were you like sitting down and listening to them and be like, guys, we gotta adjust. We got, did Track 2: you Jordan: have a consultant?Nope. No, I did that myself. Oh. So I still do that. We, I still audit call logs and listen to call recordings and say, you know how I had a company doing it for a while when we were doing the call phone training uh, which I did through a company called All Star. I found that to be really, really awesome.Uh, It is to build some of those foundational skills they were doing, auditing of the call logs for me and grading. Grading them. But since then we've moved away from that cause we kind of got what we needed to out of it. And I just do it monthly. I just sit down, I grab five calls and I just go through them and give feedback based on that.Yeah. Michael: What to you, Jordan, what would be like, my gosh, this was, this was beautiful, especially the way you handled this, and then what to you is like, oh my God, what happened? You need to change all Jordan: this. Yeah, I mean the, some of the most important things that we've found when talking to people is, using their name.People love their hearing, the sound of their name. It's the most beautiful thing in the world to them. Asking open-ended questions is huge. And honestly asking for the appointment, those three things alone are probably the biggest things that I look for when I'm listening to these logs.And really the things that make me cringe is when that doesn't happen. When we don't ask for the appointment or we just, you know, a price shopper calls and, we just say, well, yeah, this is what we charge for a crown. And we don't actually ask them to like, do you need a cr, do you need a crown?Is that, are you gonna come and do you wanna come in and get a crown? And so, yeah, it's just, you know, the girls up front are really busy and I get that not every day is gonna be, everyone's a game, but. We try to keep each other accountable. We want to be able to represent the business and the brand the way that, that it's always been and build that so that our patient experience is consistent.And that's really the big thing, is maintaining that consistency. Michael: How do you approach that now when maybe somebody's been working for you for a while and then you're like, Hey, I listened to a call. You sucked, right? Mm-hmm. But like, But like, how would you approach it? Jordan: so the way that I have it set up in the clinic, so I I I figured out a long time ago that I have certain skill sets when it comes to leadership, and there's certain other things that I maybe lack in.And one of them is really this maybe the softer approach to types of feedback. And certain people do well with that, constructive feedback and other people don't. And, all spectrums of that exist in the office. So we built this kind of management pyramid in the office.So I have myself, I have my office manager and I have a lead assistant and the three of us filter this stuff out. So my office manager is responsible for everything up front. My lead assistant is responsible for everything in the back, and I'm the kind of top of that pyramid where. All of the team will go to them first, or they will approach the team for various things.And then I step in as I need to. So in a case like a phone call, I would just take it to my office manager and say, we need to give some feedback about this particular thing's been happening. And so she'll do that. And if she feels like it was well received and worked well, then that's kind of the end of it.And we just follow up, next month. If it's not working, then, then we have a bit more of a, a formal sit down and, and, and work through it. But, I prepared a lot of my team and it's one of the beauties of doing a startup and being able to bring your own team into the mix is they all knew what to expect when they came in.You They all knew that feedback was gonna be just a part of the mechanism and they do really well with it. Honestly. They're all really hungry. They want to do better. They, we change things so often in the clinic that they almost expect feedback. which works well.You know, There's not a lot of hurt feelings. And even in the cases where people are feeling maybe a little bit taken aback but we can work through it together. Gotcha, man. Okay, Michael: so like the hierarchy kind of thing, right? Like you're, hey, you need to approach this, and then if it escalates, you approach it.Jordan: Yeah. It's only, it's hierarchy is, is a good word for it in the sense that that's really just how we operate when it comes to the operations of the business. When it comes to the actual interoffice culture, like we're a team, we work together. Mm-hmm. We do everything that we can to make people feel elevated and like they're doing a good job cuz they are, and.So that works well for us, providing positive feedback along with the negative or constructive stuff that we have to really opens up those doors for us to make those changes. Gotcha. Okay, man. Michael: Cool. And then you said you have, when the new patient call, phone call comes in is the software that does that or mm-hmm. Jordan: we use Mango Voice and they have a, dashboard type thing where you can build. A RY path of exactly how you want they call in and they get a thing that says, thanks for calling Knox Mountain Dentistry. If you're new to the office, press one.If you're need, wanna schedule something, press two, et cetera, and so on. So that's, and it tags their caller ID with a specific, NP or whatever we use in those cases. So the front knows exactly what's coming in. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And since you opened up, or I guess it's the last time we spoke to him now, what have been some of the best and worst companies you've worked with?Jordan: Well, I mean, the companies, most of the companies that I worked with at the beginning, I'm still working with now. There hasn't been many. I've moved on from some, not because they were bad but just because we got out of them, what I think. We needed to. And we were able to move forward. As we've discussed, like, I've been with ORIC since we opened up, which has been our practice management software. I've been with Mango Voice, which has been amazing, good VoIP based phone service. We were using swell a ton for our reviews and messaging system. But one of the beauties about Orex is they keep adding features that.Make it. So I don't need that stuff anymore. I don't have to pay extra for some of these other pieces of software now because org has an online review platform now that lets me send out those text messages or emails for Google reviews or Facebook reviews. So, we were with, well and they were great, and now we're not because I don't need to.So that saves me a couple grand a year. Yeah. Same marketing company that I've been with all along. And then really our, I really did enjoy the training process that we went through with a company called All-Star Dental Academy. They were the phone skills based course that we did all module based online.But it really helped the, we did it as a team, so everybody did it. And it was kind of neat because it gave us these common talking points and understandings between. What the back was doing and what the front was doing, and they could kind of see eye to eye on some of these things now. So we use them for a good solid year to get, those foundations in place.That's pretty much it. There's not, I don't have a ton of, other stuff that I need to subscribe to these days. Nice Michael: man. Okay. Out of, there's a couple right out there. Cloud-based, all-in-one platforms, right? Practice management softwares. Why'd you pick oryx? Jordan: The original attraction for Orx was really the coy based stuff.So I'm a mentor at the Coy Center you know, I was always looking for some piece of software that would let me do the types of exams and dentistry that I was taught at center. this was exactly that. And the ORs of two years ago is not the ORs of today like it is.Is morphing and changing rapidly. It's one of the, the beauties about it, we all complain about our practice management somewhere on, on some level, but, I don't know another practice management company that has a Facebook group that I can go on and request a feature and the C is on there responding to it.I, that's a very unique environment. And they listen and they do these things for us and add these features that we ask for. And EZ great. Ozzie's great. It's been a really wonderful way for us to be able to provide the dentistry that we've always wanted to do. Yeah. That's Michael: really good, man.Mm-hmm. when it comes to Oryx, how much did you, what can I ask? How much do you pay? Jordan: It's four 50 a month. Us. For orx. the nice thing about ORX is they do offer a way to do just the clinical side. Like if you have existing software that you're using for your administrative side, you can continue to use that while using the ORs clinical side.you know, we were a startup, so we went all in, we had the opportunity and the time to learn it. But it's super intuitive. Like it's easy. I find that. They're, they have their little hiccups here and there, like any piece of software might. But it's hasn't been anything that my office manager hasn't been able to figure out and implement.Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a great, it's a great investment. Michael: Yeah. Cause I was gonna ask, is it easy to train people on and stuff like that? Is it onboarding or is it more like, oh my God, it's taken us like three months to get Jordan: this going? I think if you were converting, I think there's definitely some more headaches there, but I think there's gonna be headaches with any conversion.If you're starting fresh. It was pretty easy for us. We started from scratch. We did, they have a bunch of YouTube videos on how to, like, we never brought anyone in. It was the middle of Covid. When we opened. So we didn't bring a trainer in, we just did their, YouTube videos didn't cost us anything.And once we were through with that and we started implementing it, we were comfortable within it within the first month. It wasn't a huge issue for us to get hit the ground running with that thing. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. And so you utilize all of it then? All the features and everything? Yes. Oh, okay.Cool. What's Jordan: one of your favorite features from it? Oh one. I have different favorites for different reasons. Probably one of The things that we've come to be a little bit known for is what's called our risk assessments. So Orx generates a document like 15 pages long. That's basically all of the summary findings from their new patient exam with pictures and, all these little kind of easy to understand paragraph templates of the things that are going on with their teeth.And we print this off for people. It has this really informative pie diagram that shows where their risks are. And we give that to people in a little branded folio when they leave. It's kind of like their, it's not the report card. We call it the report card, but Yeah. It, it gives them something to, that's tangible to walk out with.So that's probably on the clinic side. That's one of my favorites. The review request stuff that they've added has been amazing. That's been really helpful. Texting patients, I just text people all the time. I used to pick up the phone and call people a lot and now I just text them cause yeah, they prefer that anyway.Yeah, so there's that the, it's a good looking piece of software. It looks fresh, it doesn't look clunky or, kind of Windows 95 esque Type approach. Easy to navigate. Treatment planning's really, really straightforward. I list goes on, like there's Not a ton about it that I dislike.And even the things that I have disliked in the past they've addressed and they've brought into the mix. Nice man. Michael: Awesome. All righty. So sliding back into the strategies for marketing, could you elaborate on any unique, maybe ground marketing or regular marketing strategies that have been successful to your practice?Jordan: Yeah, I think so. It's kind of in the beginning, the ground marketing was huge. We basically were plunked into this area that was just starting to come up at the time, you know, there was not a lot there. The building that I'm in was a parking lot for the, the fruit packing plant that's in behind us for two decades before they started building stuff here, but it just blew up when they started.So in those early days, I just went around, I used your scripts. They were great. I went around to the businesses in the area and I dropped off some stuff, and, talked with the people there that were the decision makers and said, Hey, like, we're gonna be opening our doors just down the road.Like here's a signup sheet we're, we're gonna be taking some names and some information of anyone that might be interested in joining our clinic. And I would collect all that. And I think we had two or 300 names before we even opened our doors. You know, we were making phone calls. Two weeks before our doors open and we had pretty much a full schedule. It was just, there was just three of us. I wasn't seeing many people a day. But yeah, that, that was a huge weight off the shoulders in those early days. It was just being able to capitalize on, I have names, I have people that are interested.I'm not gonna be sitting here twiddling my thumbs, hoping that somebody shows up. And that was great. As we've moved down into becoming a bit more established, it's, I've obviously needed to do less of that. Although I'm kind of thinking that I might do it again.I might do some, get more involved in the community in a sense to do, do some events, do some we just did. An Invisalign day, we had a we blocked off a whole day. We sent out email blasts to our patients. We did this thing where all we did all day was scan people for Invisalign, and we offered a bit of a promo to do it.And, we had like 30 Invisalign starts. Wow. Man, on that day, like, it was huge. Like, so, it still works even in established practices doing boots on the ground type approach. Really pays its dividends. Yeah. Michael: that's good. That's really good. I appreciate that man.Thank you for utilizing the, I could tell you did cuz you're like, signup sheet and I was like, oh yeah, he did. He did. But that's good man. So the Invisalign day, the promo, what was the Jordan: promo you guys were offering? We knocked a thousand bucks off, so I Invisalign in our office, we just have a flat fee for it.And we just do, it's all in, it's, all your treatment plus retainers. For a flat fee. And so we, we had a our, the way that our fee works is it's a bit on the higher end, so it allowed me to build in this really attractive looking thousand dollars off promo. And that's really all it took.Like we, we did that and people just, came, we just started, we emailed our existing patient base and they. They all filled up a bunch of slots and then they asked if their friend could come do it too. And I said, yeah, okay. Why not? Right? So, and we were doing Invisalign starts on teenagers. We did two 70 year olds.Like it was just, yeah. Like, it was all, all over the place. Like it was not what I expected at all. But, that's just what the, what this group of people needed to pull the trigger was just, Even just this kind of inkling that they're getting a bit of a deal.Michael: Yeah. Interesting. Could I ask what the fee is? Jordan: 6,500. Michael: Okay. No, it's not a bad No. Compared to, yeah. Okay. Jordan: Our main thing too, the reason that we did it initially was that my associate was new to it. And, you know, we, I do some, I don't do a ton, but we just wanted to do some more cases.You know, He said, let's do some cases. And so we did this and it. Just blew up, it was worked out really well. Michael: Nice. Yeah. Okay. And then, have you ever faced a situation where the promised results were not achieved with the expected timeframe? With any marketing company? Jordan: Not with a marketing company.I, so everything that I've ever heard and heard people say was how expensive but impactful. Mail marketing campaigns can be. And so I did one, I spent about eight grand on it. And you know, I did everything that, that I was, that I thought I was supposed to, I had a special landing page for the. That was on the uh, the card that went out. So if people went to the website that was on the card, it tracked them and was able to see, who was coming from various sources and, yeah, I mean, as far as dollars per new patient or it didn't do anywhere near as well as just the dollars we put into Google.Michael: Okay. You did it on your eddm or what's that? You paid Jordan: a company like was it? No. Yeah, so yeah, like I did the design. With my marketing company, we just did, like, it was really nice. It was a big like six by nine postcard thing. And then Canada Post just does they have a service that, that does the printing and the um, and the delivery of those packages.Michael: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That happens sometimes. Like you mm-hmm. Could or miss. Right. So then as a practice owner, what advice would you give to our listeners regarding effective marketing and ROI tracking? Jordan: Yeah, I guess it depends on how comfortable you are diving into some of that stuff. Are anything digital is gonna be easier to track ROI on?It's really hard to make tangible distinctions about how your dollars are being spent when it's just, when it's a physical object that's going out into the ether. one of the biggest things that I think for as far as ROI goes is capitalizing on what your demographics are.So knowing what your demographics are, knowing how many pieces of property, businesses, and households exist within a three mile or five kilometer radius of your practice. Because realistically, what you're gonna get is you're gonna get the people that are close to you from where they live.The number of people that come from work to the office is way, way lower than the number of people that come from their homes. And, tracking that stuff, if you have a good solid marketing company, they can do that. They can create landing pages for you. They can, you can create different phone numbers that lets you track people that call numbers on various pieces of marketing.You can always do split tests to see how certain pieces of marketing play against each other. in the US you guys have a lot more leniency in some of your advertising than we do up here, at least in British Columbia. Like, we can't really offer, promotions to people in a, in an open way.Mm-hmm. I can advertise to my patient base, but I can't send. Postcard out that offers people a discounted exam and x-rays or cleaning that would just be a a no-no. But focusing on the patients that are gonna be in your practice for the longest, so, One piece of, one piece of marketing that I never thought would be as successful as it has been has been YouTube. YouTube impressions are cheap, super cheap. And the number of patients that I have come in, because they've seen my office video that we made Come up as a sponsored ad on whatever YouTube video they're watching. Like if you told me that a year ago, I'd say you're, you're silly.That's ridiculous. But it's been hundreds and hundreds. Like, it's very strange. Michael: They come in and they're like, Jordan: I saw you on YouTube. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I saw your ad on YouTube, man. Michael: Break that down for me. How do you do that? So you, go on a YouTube, you decide, is it just like, Facebook ads or Jordan: Google Ads, or how does that, honestly, I dunno if you've ever been on YouTube and watch, you're watching a YouTube video and That creator has, an ad all of a sudden comes up in the middle of your, your video. Mm-hmm. It'll just be my ad and, you know, the backend, Michael: the backend. Like, oh, how much do you pay? And Jordan: Oh, create it. I wanna, oh, I don't want quote me on it, but it's. Like less than a scent per impression or something like that.It's, It's really cheap. It's bundled up with Google cuz they own YouTube. But yeah, in incredibly inexpensive. Michael: Wow. Okay. And then so you just have the same video or you create a video specifically Jordan: for YouTube? Yeah, no, so we, we created a video, six months after we opened with this, my marketing company.I spent, Five grand on it. It's really professionally done. It's on our website. I leverage it all the time. Instagram, I like, I posted on Instagram I do these things many times over the last two years. But it's just that video. That's the one that's up on Instagram. So they get the intro into the office and they see, the area and it's me talking about the services we offer and things we do.And it's just set up in a way to be really attractive. And it works. And Michael: you set it up in like a radius of. Only around your, that's what you do like in YouTube, right? Around your town? Jordan: Yeah. Or your community or, yeah, like we our area's pretty dense, the focus of who I bring into the practices is anybody within six kilometers.So six kilometer radius has about, 15,000 people in it, and me and one other dentist. So that's kind of the area. And then anything outside of that, people will come. It's just I've found that as we've matured, our radius is expanding the people that we start attracting. Like, so now we bring people in from several hours away.They've moved away and they still want to come and see us or they've heard about us, so they'll drive in to do to see us here just because there's no option in their town. But, I think as you, as your practice grows and you start bringing in more people and have a bit more clout you can expand that radius and start advertising a little bit more broadly.But, it really just comes down to trying to make yourself look different than the person next door. And that's not always easy to do. You have You have to have something that people are attracted to, to be able to do that. Yeah, I think Michael: that's pretty really, man. Especially like u utilizing YouTube.Cause I feel like nobody's really, Jordan: Oh yeah. Like, it never crossed my mind in the early days of this, it's not, I'm not someone that, that peruses YouTube baton. But apparently it's by far the most hours spent than any other platform. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.Yeah. Michael: Interesting. Okay. Something to think about. Awesome, Jordan, I appreciate your time. If anyone has further questions or concerns, where can they find you? Jordan: You can give me, gimme a call at the office. look up the website, send me a message. And happy to answer any questions Michael: I can.Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below. And Jordan, thank you for being with us. It's a pleasure. I'll away from you soon. Appreciate it.‍

(If you DO want to work with Golden Proportions, they are actually giving all our listeners 2 EXCLUSIVE DEALS)Reach out to Golden Proportions here: https://go.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketer-deal‍‍Welcome this week's MMM! It today's episode, Xana Winans is spilling the beans on what it takes to build an effective website or find the right person to do it for you. She will be sharing five of her favorite nuggets of wisdom that can make all the difference. From maintaining a secure and unique domain, to keeping your content fresh and engaging, we've got you covered. Xana also dives into the hot topic of ADA compliance, working with freelancers, and making sure your patients have a pleasant experience on your website. If you're planning on building your website, or hiring someone to, stop right now, and listen in to these 5 essential tips first!‍Catch my latest conversation with Xana for your website must-have checklist today!‍You can reach out to Xana Winans here:Website: https://www.goldenproportions.com/‍Other Mentions and Links:ProSitesSesame CommunicationsWordpressWixWhois‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Xana, so talk to us about websites. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through Xana: our website? So websites, boy, one of my favorite topics to talk about Michael, um, because we get lots of calls from clients all the time, or prospective clients who are saying, okay, my website's really outdated, or I don't feel like I'm getting patients from my website.I feel like I need a new one. And I think a lot of times doctors kind of go into the process of buying a new website from somebody or trying to build their own, but they don't actually know. What's the right way to do it? So while there are a million different things people need to know before they build a site, I thought maybe like, let me share some of what I would consider to be like the top five things you must know.Mm-hmm. Before you build a website, whether you build it on your own, you're paying somebody else to build it. So first thing is the website domain. I am the biggest preacher about doctors need to own their own assets. So whether you're building it or you're paying somebody else to build it, doctors, you should own the domain.You should own the login, the password. You should know exactly where it's stored. I can't tell you how many times I've had to hunt it down for people. Don't let another company, especially if you're working with a freelancer, like if you're trying to build it yourself, Register the domain for you because you could lose access to it.I, I've seen some relationships go bad with other freelancers, and then somebody is holding essentially the keys to your marketing. They're holding it hostage. They can take the domain down if they want to, so gotta know where it lives. Gotta have complete ownership of it. If you have no idea what the status of your website is, there's actually a great site you guys can go to called Who is.com.I don't know if you're familiar with that. Not really. Um, and you can type in any website address and it will tell you, um, if it's privately registered, you won't be able to see that much, but for most people, you'll be able to see who owns it, when it was originally registered, when it's due for renewal, if there's any other contacts on it.Like, we'll be a technical contact on domains, just to make sure, like if things come up for renewal, that we know they're good to go. so yeah, that's a really, really big one in my mind because without a really good domain, your, your website doesn't exist. Mm-hmm. So there's one. the other thing that I think is really important to know before you build a site, whether you're building it on your own or you're paying somebody else to build it, is understand what platform the website is built on.So I'll give you a great example. I have a client right now who, um, has a, a nice website, pretty well optimized, being built or has been built recently built by, A whole nother company in the dental marketing industry. I have no problem with what that person did in building the site. The problem is it is a proprietary backend, meaning that that website can never leave That company's.grasp. So if you, as a doctor wanted to take your website and move it to a different host or have somebody else do your seo, you're stuck. You have to build a brand new website from scratch. So you need to know that you are building your website on something that you can take with you. Because otherwise, you know, you could be a year into a relationship, wanna move on, and you're kind of stuck and you gotta do it all over again.And you know what goes into building a website, you, you sure don't wanna have to do that every single year. Yeah. Would Michael: that also include like, oh man, now I also have completely change a whole different like U R L domain name and everything, or. Xana: No, you can typical, well, if you have access to your own domain name and you're the owner of it, then you can, um, redirect to a new website when you've built it.But you can't take the website from the company who built it. If it's a proprietary, software. Like, I'll give you an example. I think, um, ProSites does this, and that wasn't the company I was talking about. I believe Sesame does this. there's a couple of kind of the template companies and, and so you're kind of stuck.So personally, we build on WordPress. It's universally considered like the most popular platform to build on. It's got the most flexibility. But if you're building on Wix, that's fine. Just know that you're always gonna have to host your website on Wix for the rest of your life. Yeah. Otherwise you gotta build a new one.Michael: Gotcha, gotcha. And if Wix goes outta business, then like, okay, there goes your whole thing right. At the same time. Xana: Gotcha. Well hopefully they're not going out of business. Yeah. Yeah. Michael: Okay. Awesome. So number Xana: three. Number three is security and ADA accessibility. Uh, your website being secure on a secure hosting platform is critical.there are a lot of hackers out there who would love to get into your website. Uh, magically make it redirect to a very questionable website that might be selling drugs in another country, or even worse. And they will hold your website hostage. So you have to have your website hosted with an incredibly secure host and use an S L or security http version so that nobody can hack your site.It's also a really good signal for Google in terms of SEO that it's a secure site. and kind of right along with that is making sure that the site is ADA accessible. So have you heard all those stories that have been going around the past couple? Mm-hmm. About. Legal firms that are claiming your website is an American with Disabilities Act accessible.Yeah, Uhhuh, there's actually only like four, I believe four firms in the entire country that do this. They're responsible for all the lawsuits and it is not coming from an actual disabled person who can't use your website. So these. Very shady law firms are finding every website that is not built to ada, uh, specific, code.And they're basically sending threatening letters saying, we're gonna sue you. And they are hitting the doctors up for a couple thousand dollars to basically make the lawsuit go away. Wow. Okay. Isn't that awful? That's pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah, so there's just, you gotta know if you're building it on your own, there's some options you can use.Like accessibility is an option. It's basically a plugin that helps make sure it's, um, ADA accessible. There's a couple other versions, but that's a big one. You gotta know, or guaranteed those law firms are coming after every single dental website in time. So Michael: how can you, right now, if we were, we're like, okay, is it ADA compliant?I don't know. How do we tell. Xana: so if you don't know, I would go to your website host and ask them if it is ADA accessible. I know there are testing platforms out there. I don't happen to know one off the top of my head. I can send it to you. but most people's websites are not truly ADA accessible, so ADA accessible basically means.people need to be able to read it with a, a reader if they are visually impaired, that your images are named the right thing. That, uh, there's just all these criteria that go into it. So I'd say talk to your website company who built it, and, um, make sure that you are compliant as best as humanly possible.It's not so much just for your actual patients, but to protect you from these crazy Michael: lawsuits. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So make sure you have security and ADA compliance, right? Yeah. That's number, Xana: those three. That's number three. Uh, Fourth big thing everybody has got to know is once you build your website, I have seen plenty of doctors and freelancers build sites using WordPress templates.There's themes out there. I think there's even one called like theme forest. You can go in and there's. Thousands of website designs, which makes it really easy to build a website. But a lot of these websites use plugins so that the plugin might make it a d a accessible, or it might make it so that your videos, play properly or that your images work on a slider.The thing is, all these plugins go through updates, so. And they don't do them automatically most of the time. So somebody, either you or your web company needs to be staying on top of those updates because all of a sudden you'll have like a broken section in your website that just isn't working anymore.So if you're building it on your own, know that you gotta be maintaining your plugins. And it's not just WordPress plugins are pretty much on all websites. Yeah. Okay. Michael: So be on top of the plugins. Xana: Out of the plugins. Okay. And then the last thing I think everybody needs to know before they build a new website is, who the heck is writing this thing?if you're doing a template, there's a lot of prefab content, which is great, it kind of gets you started. But Google is not a fan of duplicate content, so your page on fillings is gonna be the exact same as everybody else's page on fillings who uses the same template company. So unless you really like writing, you are gonna want to pay somebody else to write the website.So make sure you know upfront is the expectation that it's your job, the doctor to write a 25 or 30 page website, which holy cow is a lot. Or is it part of the contract with the company that you're paying for? And, um, and making sure that they get your voice and your personality in your, you know, in your brand that comes through in that content and that it's written for s e o.So that's just a few of the things I think that people need to know before they go building a new website. Yeah. Michael: On the number five, What do you, what have you seen work better? Because I've seen people talk about, like, as in they're mentioning like, I love my community and I love this, but then I also see people say like, oh, Dr.Like Dr. Zana loves her community. She loves like a third person. Mm-hmm. What is, uh, what have you seen, like has been received better? Xana: unless the doctor is personally writing the site, I wouldn't go first person. I, it feels super informal, which is great from a reader perspective. but that personality has to come through in the practice when they walk in the front door.and there's also kind of this mix between writing for the search engines, using the right keyword phrases, using them with the right amount of density on a given page. and, and if unless you're trained in writing for seo, you might spend a lot of time writing the website and just not have it be valuable in terms of bringing new patients in the door, cuz you just don't know Google's rules for where they want the keywords to appear.But I will tell you, I, there's a, a doctor that I know from years ago, um, and, and I don't have his name off the top of my head. He actually has a practice in, Australia. And he wrote his website, first person, and he's got this great dry sense of humor and you see it coming through in the website and it's just a joy to read because it's fun.And that's a gift. Not a lot of people are able to share that type of personality through their site. Um, when you can, if you're, if you're someone who's got that, I absolutely encourage it cuz people are just gonna gravitate to that. They get to see you and your brand. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. And then on number three, with the plugins, how often do you see like plugins, ODed, go out and need updating?Xana: On a regular basis? Michael: Like? Like weekly or, or daily Xana: even, or? No, no, not daily. I generally say like it's a good idea once a month. Mm-hmm. Minimum once a quarter that you're logging into the backend of your website, and it'll typically give you a notification if there's a plugin that's out of date. And then you have to agree whether or not you wanna approve that plugin.And it comes kind of up to date. But then you still need to check the site and make sure that it didn't do anything wonky. Cause you don't wanna spend, you know, three months with your, your homepage video not being able to play because some plugin was broken. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So good idea to check on it once a month ideally.Michael: So are these the things like that. Consider, like we need to continue to optimize or like, you know what I mean, be on top of your website. Xana: Um, this isn't even so much about the SEO and you know, your ability to be found. It's, this is about having a good experience as the consumer. So kind of that end user experience.What are they seeing on your end? But also you as the doctor, the owner of the website. This is a really important asset, your brand and your message. You gotta make sure that you feel like it is a good reflection of you and that you, you understand what you're buying. Because the website is not just pretty pictures, it's about educating your patients and motivating them towards taking action.Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Is there anything we can say to, I guess, like a agency to be like, is this a proprietary. Uh, you know what I mean? Or is it, or is there like a specific, is that the phrase right there? Proprietary? Like is this a proprietary website or is this a template website or? Xana: Um, so what I would say is, um, one of the questions you need to ask is if I decide that we no longer work together, once my website is built, do I own this website?Can I move it to any host that I want to? Um, and they'll, they might give you a little bit of a run around. So you can also add in, you know, is this a proprietary content management system? So content management system, c m s is the, the backend where you log in and you could edit a bio or, you know, edit some content about a service.Uh, that's a really, really important one. Now if you like your template and it's dirt cheap and you know you don't mind keeping it there for a couple of years, that's fine. It's totally okay. You should just be making an educated decision before you commit. Michael: Ah, okay. Awesome, Xana, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you Xana: directly?Uh, best thing is just to go to our website, which is golden proportions.com, um, and you can click on the chat button. It's pretty much monitored, um, all throughout the business day, but shockingly, I take a lot of chats on the weekends too. Um, and you can also just give us a call directly, the numbers on the website.We would love to chat with you. Michael: Awesome guys. So all her contact info's gonna be in the show notes below. And Xana, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. My Xana: pleasure. Thanks Michael.‍

Dear Songwriter! In this episode, we're diving into the timeless hit "Redundant" by Green Day, unraveling the three valuable lessons it holds for aspiring songwriters.For this week's song analysis, I'm dissecting the song's structure, lyrical content, and melodic choices, shedding light on how these elements contribute to its enduring appeal. Whether you're a fan of Green Day or simply seeking inspiration for your own musical journey, this episode will provide invaluable insights into the creative process and leave you eager to apply these lessons to your own compositions. Tune in and discover my Top 3 things to take away from Green Day's "Redundant," and learn how this could apply to your own compositions!Other Mentions and Links:Nimrod - Green DayRedundant - Green DayWeezerBook a Call with Me!

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental LabTo check out Dandy's FREE KPI E-Book click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/learning-center/ebooks/dental-industry-kpis/‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍‍Guest: Paul EtchisonBusiness Name: Dental Practice HeroesCheck out Paul's Media:Website: https://dentalpracticeheroes.com/Dental Practice Heroes Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dental-practice-heroes-podcast/id1315253777Dental Practice Hero: From Ordinary Practice to Extraordinary Experience: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-Extraordinary-Experience/dp/099978630X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206813&sr=1-1Dental Practice Hero II: How a 3 Day Work Week Can Give You the Life You Want: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-II-Sequel/dp/1736658972/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206741&sr=1-2Dental Business Mentor:  www.dentalbusinessmentor.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Dr. Etchison on Episode 300!Dr. Etchison on MMM [INTERNAL MARKETING] SMALL DETAILS THAT MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TEAM COMMUNICATION!Delta DentalKeurigMB2Goldman SachsDie With Zero - Bill PerkinsInvisalignThe Top 5 Regrets of the Dying - Bronnie WareThe Four - Scott Galloway‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Try giving your team the autonomy to own tasks and you may be surprised at what they're capable of!Never be afraid of you or your team messing up. This is an important part of the process of growing!Seniority is NOT always the best indicator of competency in a role.The meaning behind the task is far more important that what you're doing to complete it.Don't criticize team members for dropping the ball. Work together to find a better way to do things!Try to not be afraid of "doing nothing," as this is essential for recharging your creativity.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guests returning guests, Paul Etchison. How's it going, man? Paul: Good. It's going good. Thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it. Michael: No, man. I appreciate it. You've been on the Monday Morning marketing episode, and we're gonna put a link to that in the show notes, but you were also on episode 300 Nelson Ridge Family Dental.Mm-hmm. You just sold right? Paul: Not that long ago. I, well, I sold, yeah, I, I sold to, uh, A D S O about two and a half years ago. So I'm still doing it. I'm still there. I'm still part of it, but my, my part of it is a little bit different now, I guess, than it was in the past, but it's, it's good. I'm, I'm excited for the future and, and I'm coming up on the end of my contract with them, but, um, no intentions on leaving, so I'll be there for long term, which my team is happy to hear.Can we Michael: talk about like, the of that? Like why, how much did you sell for and stuff like that, or no? Paul: Um, no, probably not. Okay. Okay. Then why did you sell? Why did I sell? Um, you know, for me it was coming outta covid. I just like, it was so good. Just not have the practice. I mean, and some people like missed going to work.I didn't miss it at all. I, I mean, I thought I was like really like laid back and I felt like my leads were running a lot of stuff. And then when we shut down for 11 weeks and the practice went away and all the stress went away, it was just like, I just, this weight lifted. And then I, I said when we come back, I'm doing things differently.I, I'm not letting this, I mean, it, it was just like this, realize how much it was in my life, how much it was like taking over like my psyche and just like always occupying my mind. And, and then we came back from Covid and, and we had all these massive other things to deal with, like regulations and, and we're still worried about the virus and stuff.But once things got back to business as usual, I said, Hey man, I'm doing something different. Started exploring the idea of. Man, do I, could I get, what kind of like money could I get for this practice? What does it make sure sense like financially long term to do this and then come, really come to grips with the fact that.Coming to Grip with that. It wasn't so final. Like if I loved being a dental practice owner and I sold it and it was horrible and I hated the corporation and I just wanted my baby back and I just wanted to own my practice again, I could go and I can open another one. You know? So like that was like coming four C full circle, saying like, this is not as final as I think.It's just, it's a new chapter in my life. It's a new part. It was like I did it right when I was 39. Right now I'm 41. And, um, I, I'm not sure what the next 10 years are gonna be about, but what's cool is that I feel like I'm finally doing stuff because I want to do it. And, and I know, like me saying that I wanna stay at the practice, I know I wanna stay there, whereas I.Three years ago. It's cuz I have to, I mean, I own so much of it. Um, I own just a small percent. I, I could tell I own 15% at this time. Um, I just don't know cuz I know they're always like doing new contracts. They don't like us sharing like, the details of what we sold and what we sold. But, but right now I own 15% at this point.And, um, it's something that I still enjoy doing. And some people would say we, 15%, is it really worth it for you to even show up? I can tell you that I, I had tried to take three, four weeks off because of a hernia surgery, and then I got covid and, and then I had a vacation mixed in there too. right before I got covid and having a whole month off of work.I mean, it's great to get caught up on Netflix. It's great to read a lot of books. At a certain point I was like, dude, this is like test out retirement and I don't like it. I want to go back to work. So this brings this whole different attitude when I'm at the practice. No. Now do I wanna be there five days a week, four days a week?No. I don't even wanna be there that I'm, like, I'm there like two, five and a half hour days a week. That's it. But that's, that's a comfortable level for me just to kind of stay involved, stay in it, uh, talk with my leads, run the practice. Um, see some patients and that's, that's, that's a good level for me. I don't want any more than that, but, a lot easier to step back once you've sold a lot of equity because it's just not as much risk.But way I'm living now. I could have lived it as a hundred percent owner than, you know, I didn't need to sell to do it. I just had to sell to realize it. Michael: what I was gonna ask you. Do you think it's possible for someone to be like, I only wanna do like two clinical days, three clinical days, and.Do whatever I want after other days. Right. Be with family and all that stuff. I mean, that's what I think a lot of people jump into ownership for not to be like, I wanna work forever and do all this. Yeah. It's more like I wanna have an imprint on the community, but at the same time I wanna work less, call my own hours.And it really doesn't always work out that way though. Paul: Well, I, I think you can and you, you need to have leaders at the practice that are running things for you. And I had a leadership team. Long before I sold, like I would say I had 'em like two and a half, three years before I established like an hygiene lead, an assistant lead.I had my office manager, an insurance lead, and essentially, like I said, man, before Covid I'd be like, they do everything. But then one co once Covid happened, I was like, dude, I still do a lot. So after I sold and there wasn't as much incentive to really push production and, grow the practice and even though we're still growing like crazy, then I stepped back and I said, Hey, You guys know how I wanna do things?Can you guys, like, just like when there's interpersonal stuff, can you deal with it with a new department and just come get me if you really, really need me. If, if something happens with the patient, can you guys just take care of it like I would And they're just like, I could totally do this. And then they did.And it was, it was just weird because I went through like this like three month period of. Wow, everything's running so great at the practice. Nobody's complaining. Nobody's saying like, is upset about anything. And then I, I asked my, my assistant lead who's actually, I put her, I turned under my clinical lead now cuz she's kind of like the manager for everyone on the clinical side.She's like, dude, like, man, it just feels so good. Like there's nothing going on. She's like, dude, there's tons of stuff going on. She's like, do you wanna know about 'em? She's like, you said you didn't wanna know. And I said, gosh, if you think I need to know about 'em, she's like, I don't think you do. They're under control.And it was just like this liberating feeling of why. Wow. Like the practice is always gonna have issues. Somebody always has to deal with them, but all of a sudden it didn't have to be me. And I just kinda stepped back and I just trusted them. And I, like I said, I could have did that at a hundred percent owner.It's a lot easier to do when you own 15% because the risk isn't there if the practice crash isn't burns, you know, um, doesn't hurt me that bad, but at the same time, like if I did it as a hundred percent owner and it really caused a lot of issues. Like, I would've found out about it. I would've pivoted, I would've addressed it.It was just, I just think I was too scared to relinquish that control of something that was a hundred percent mine. I was just, I couldn't let go and get out of the way. But once I did, man, that was the game changer. It was just getting out of the way and trusting my people who have been with me for a long time, who I trust, who, who have seen how I lead.And hopefully some of that has rubbed off on them and they do the right thing and. Dude, it's never run so well. I, I, I'm just I'm blown away by how well, uh, of a job they're doing. They're just doing so well. Hmm. Michael: I like that. When, when you said, Hey, man, only come and get me when you really needed me.What is that? Like? What, how do they know what is really needed? Right. Kind of thing. Yeah. Cause it's like you can be, I don't wanna bother Paul with that. I don't wanna bother Paul with that, but in your mind you're like, dang, I want to. That's embezzlement. I'm wanting to know that. Paul: Right. I think that would be, that would be one. Um, I'm trying to think of some recent situation. Like, okay, I'll give you an instance that was pretty recent is we had an assistant that was, uh, just a great person, great with the patients, uh, super cool to be around, but when they ran behind out on schedules, she would kind of lose it and just, just overwhelm and just certain behavioral things would come out in her that were just not appropriate.Um, just anger, you know, anger and frustration. Just couldn't hide it. And, um, my assistant lead, my, my clinical lead sat down with her and she had a conversation about it. Things got better for a little bit. She sat down and had another conversation about her, about it. What, like two, three weeks later when start, things started reverting back, and then she actually like wrote, documented this meeting like, this is what needs to change.This is your understanding that if this doesn't change, then it's, this might be a termination thing. And then when it got to me, it was like, Hey, I'm doing everything I can. this girl is just making my life just, every, I hear her name every two days I hear something about her that she did.Mm-hmm. She's like, I think we really need to start considering talking or letting her go. So then at that point, I had a conversation with her and things got better, like they usually do for about two, three weeks. And then, um, I had another conversation with her and it was, it was, it was hard because, She knew I was having her conversation with her, and she's like, Hey, I know what you're talking about. I know I need to change the stuff. I'm gonna get better. Like, da da, da. She's like, you know what, this person, this, this and this need to change. And I just had to cut her off. I'm like, Hey, I'm so sorry.Today's your last day. We just can't do it anymore. so that was, that was my involvement. I had to let her go. But I mean, other than that, it's like big stuff. Like right now we're dropping Delta. We just, we just sent her a letter to Delta to get out of that network. coming up with some kind of ideas with the front desk.Why is the front desk, why are people upset with who's doing what? How can we balance duties out? So it's all this interpersonal stuff. Like, like I walked up to the desk and, and somebody was rude to me and they responded rude. I don't deal with that no more. You know that they, they can handle that. They handled the scheduling, they handle the offs when people are taken off the duplication days.everything. They're the ones having the one-on-ones, they're the ones giving the raises. Um, I mean, with my permission obviously, and yeah, I'm just, it's just, I, it's high level stuff. Like my high level right now where I'm at, where there's no noise and I'm just saying, Hey, we're working on getting out a network.That's what we're doing. We're getting on networks. We're at capacity. We need to get our networks. What are we doing? How are we gonna organize the front desk to ride this experience? How are we gonna train these people on the verbiages that they have to use to be an auto network dentist? How are we gonna talk to patients about this?Let's organize what we're gonna put on a mailer. So I'm just doing like, stuff like that, but it is just so nice to get outta that noise of the interpersonal stuff, man. Cuz we got 43 employees and always something, and I just, sometimes I'm like, why can't people just be cool?Just be cool. Please. Just why can't you just be cool? And they're, it's just, it's not possible. You know, like there's always something going on. People are, um, everyone's got their emotional stuff and their own psychology, and people have expectations that don't get met by other people, and they're disappointed and, and people can be mean, you know?Yeah, no. So, so sometimes you gotta get involved in that. But, um, yeah, for the most part, I'm not part of that. I'm, I'm doing the high level stuff, which is, it's so much fun, man. I love it. So it's, it's, it's part of the practice that I really do enjoy. Do Michael: you ever review it like when it comes to your, your leads, like hey, we have a monthly review or a monthly, I don't know, meeting or whatever with just the leads and we're like, okay.And then that's when you can kind of say like, Hey, that was a red, or do you give them red flags? Like, this is when, when things should be brought up to me. Right. Anything below that? No. Kind Paul: of things like that. You know, I never had to really do that cuz I think they, there was a part of me that was really like kinda like, just take care of it.I don't wanna know about it. And there was a part of me that was this kinda like miserable boss where. They were almost scared to bring me stuff. So I think when it got to the point where I was like, Hey, just take care of it, they had a pretty good idea of what I didn't want to deal with and I don't, I don't know, ma, maybe I trained the people good.Maybe they're just wonderful people. It's really hard to say. I mean, they're definitely wonderful people, but, um, I haven't had to set too many expectations with, or what I want them to do. I mean, I told 'em what I want to do, but it's just been like little things here and there like. Correction. Like, Hey, I want you to take care of this.You know, I want you to, I, I, this is what I want to happen. I don't care how you do it. Just what do you think? Can you run with it? They're like, yeah, I'll run with it. And, and even like the people that aren't my leads, like my one, one of my assistants was like, I think we should get the coffee bar back.Cause we took it away during Covid. I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'll get a Keurig, I'll find some like cabinet or something like this. And then it's like three weeks later she's like, Hey, where's the coffee bar? I'm like, dude, you know me. I, it's on my to-do list. I'm never gonna get to it. Do you wanna run with it?She's like, I'd love to. And then one day I just came in and there's a nice piece of furniture, fits the fridge right in it, it's all stocked. It's got the espresso machine. And I'm just like, dude, you killed it. This is awesome. Like, I would've never, I wouldn't have did this, I would've just stuck like a damn keigan, like a stool or something.like that, you know? And like, we're good. There you go, girls. You know? So it's, um, but I think we really sell ourselves short and we don't realize how much our team wants to do if you give them the autonomy to do stuff. And, and I would just beg any listeners to try to say, Hey man, like what if I just.What if I let somebody run with something and what, and what's the worst that can happen? You know, maybe you have an upset customer patient. it's not gonna crash your business. It would just, nothing that happens within one week, one month even that you do for 3, 4, 6 months is gonna crash your business.I mean, to, to crash your business so that it burns completely. You'd have to really screw things up for a long time. You know, you'll have time to pivot and, and adjust and, and sometimes they. can't really think of any really main situations that's happened, but I mean, they're gonna have situations where they kinda screw up and that's cool too.You know, I, I'm totally cool with that. I screwed things up. Um, I handle situations not as gracefully as I would in retrospect sometimes. A lot of times maybe. I think it's just part of that learning experience and growing into becoming a leader, but it's. Man, my leadership skills grew a whole lot when I stepped in a leadership position.So if we want to build up the leadership people, like our, our leadership team and build them up, we gotta get outta the way and let them step in that position. And they gotta get some bumps and bruises too. Yeah, Michael: no, yeah, you're right. I think it's kind of difficult, especially at the beginning stages when you're like fingers on the trigger on everything, right?Like, it's like, this is my baby. Like I need to watch everything. And you only have like one or two. So can I ask you if, if like somebody who had like, I don't know, three, four employees right now At the beginning, right? Yeah. Starting up. and they're like, man, Paul, I want you to train me like you done it and I want you to help me find leaders.Mm-hmm. So I can train them to be leaders just like you. Cuz I'm, I'm assuming like it's best to do that at the very beginning, right? Mm-hmm. Like, this is the set, this is who I wanna find. Who'd you Paul: do that? Well, I, I would say if anyone's that small, I don't think you really need the leaders yet. I think you can like, kind of get outta the way for some people in your team.I don't think it's established leaders yet. And the reason I say that is because all of my leads were never my longest employees. In, in that position. Like my assistant lead was not my longest assistant. my insurance lead was not the longest front desk person. Same thing with my front desk lead.They weren't my longest standing seniority person. So what we did is we got to a point, and this is what I would recommend to people, I probably could have did it earlier than I did it, but we got to a point, maybe like 12, 15 people where started changing policies and how we were doing things, and it just kept coming up where someone's like, I didn't know we were doing it that way.I do. We talked about at the meeting, oh, I didn't make the meeting. Or it was like, oh, I didn't hear that. I didn't realize, oh yeah, I forgot. You know, it's just like we started having all these communication breakdowns and then, and I was always big on I wanna meet one-on-one with every single team member and a certain point, man, it, that takes a long ass time.Mm-hmm. We got like 15 people that's why we established the leadership teams. And what we did is we had everybody do like a, you know, anonymous ballot. So we said, you know, nominate your top three people for front desk lead for assistant lead. And we did like the ranked ballot system. So if like you were the first choice, you got three points.If you were some second choice, you got two points just in case, like somebody was, not everybody's first choice, but they were most, most people's second choice, they would get picked over. And then I took 'em home and I counted 'em. And there was part of me that was like, if they don't pick the people, I pick, I'm just gonna lie about the results and say, this is who it was, because I wanted them to own it.But they actually did. I mean, it was like, it was like unanimous and. The team knows who the leaders are. So I would say you gotta get a little bit, I mean, you can't make a lead lead assistant if you've got two assistants, cuz you got, then you got the lead and the not lead. You know, I would think you gotta get like three, four people in each department before you do it.Now an office manager, I think that's a leadership position you could get right away. And that's somebody who you can trust and who can take care of the payroll stuff and could take care of stuff like knowing what people are making. yeah, that was something that I did pretty early and I would, I'd recommend doing that and.You know, like my office manager role, what she does now is very different than what she did like eight years ago. and I just had somebody ask me recently, like, did you have a job description for office manager? I'm like, no. Like, it just like over time you just keep dumping things like, Hey man, like can you take care of this thing for me every month?Yeah, I could do that. Cool. it just frees up you like, it frees it's a, it's delegation and, and you have to train 'em on it and, um, they'll do as much as you allow 'em to, you know, and I, I think you gotta give the. You gotta do the public blessing with the team. Like, Hey, this person was used to be your peer.Now they're, now they're, you know, they're stepping into a new leadership role. You know, we're all friends here and they're not above you, but they are gonna take over a lot of stuff for me, and I want you to treat them as you would treat me the same respect. but yeah, man, it, it, it's, there's so many people that want their office manager and they, they hire, hey, hiring office manager.And people say, Ooh, I got six years office manager experience. Dude, half these Office of Injuries don't know from shit. Like, they're like, I don't mean swear. nobody's put 'em in a position to really lead and just kind of run with things and, and be a self-starter.just because you know everything about insurance and you can present treatment plans doesn't make you an office manager. So, I would urge anyone who wants to do this to, to really just say, Hey, this is what I want. This kind of, I want you to be this for the office. I want you to be able to handle disagreements between people.When an upset patient calls, I want you to take care of it and just, just make it right without asking me for permission. Like, you don't need my permission. And just go with that. And as time goes, it will evolve that that role will evolve. But man, you're gonna get some really valuable people, people on your team, and they're gonna be valuable.People that won't wanna lead because they love their jobs, they love that autonomy, they love the role they're in. Um, we just gotta, we gotta allow them to have it. Michael: Okay. What policies did you start changing when you started, like miscommunication Paul: and things like that? Oh, I don't remember what it was. It might have been, I, I think the big one was with ortho, is that we just, so we didn't forget to send the stuff out.We started putting the models in a bin on my desk so that I could pull the models out, write up the diagnosis, and pull the stuff up so that I didn't forget that they didn't, it was like a backstop to say, Hey, like if the stuff doesn't go out, Here's, here's our, second parachute.And I think, I think it was something like that. But I mean, just things like, just random stuff like this is our procedures cuz we've always been really big on procedures. I don't have to double check it that everybody has done their part. Mm-hmm. I want to create ways that they just get done.And I can be assured that the previous part was done. Cuz there's so much in the dental office where we're so dependent on the previous step being done correctly. Like, I mean, dude, if the, if the insurance gets verified incorrectly, Then the treatment plan's incorrect, then the payment's incorrect. Then you, you gotta take an E o B and you gotta collect it and you now you gotta balance.Now that's incorrect. Now the patient's pissed cuz you're incorrect. And it all this stuff just trickles down just because that insurance wasn't put incorrectly, you know? Mm-hmm. So, and there's so much like that in a dental office. So we've always been big on creating like things like that and trying to create these secondary, we call 'em backstops, just in case it falls through the cracks, we'll catch it.And sometimes we don't, you know, but that's always a, a product of we dropped the ball. Okay guys, we dropped the ball. What happened? Talk to me about it. Let's not make anyone feel guilty. Let's not criticize each other. Let's just collaborate as a team and come up with a solution so that we can not do this again.I have coaching clients that are always like, dude, like, I can't believe you have problems like this in your practice. Dude, my practice is just like, Everybody else's, it's never gonna be without problems. I don't care how tight your systems are, we are humans and humans make mistakes.Mm-hmm. And we forget things and we have emotions and, and those emotions affect our decisions and our behaviors. And it's a complex world and yeah. There's always gonna be a drop in the ball in somewhere, you know? It just happens. Michael: Yeah. How many days were you practicing before you Paul: sold? So before I sold, I was at three days a week.So I was doing three days a week. it should have been two days a week. And the one day was like my, like, Hey, let's lead, let's talk with my teams. let's train people day. But what was started happening was I was always getting booked on that day. The front desk would book me. Mm-hmm. Because they knew I was gonna be there.Like, Hey, do you mind like just seeing this one patient, you're gonna be here. Right. I just take like 10 minutes. I mean, it, it is, I love, love when the team's like, dude, just, just come do this with me and just take like five minutes. I'm like, dude, got. 20 people that wanna do something with me for five minutes.and you probably get it, you get people call, Hey, can I pick your brain for 10 minutes? It's never 10 minutes, you know, it's always like an hour. So it's like, so, um, I forgot what you, where was he going with this? What did you ask me? My, how many, how you practicing? You said three days?Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I had that one day that it was still like, they would just book me. So they put one patient in there and then they'd see us was seeing a patient, so they put another one. So eventually I just stopped coming in on Monday. I said, Hey, I'm done on Mondays. I'm not doing it. so then it was just two full days a week, which eventually we got to two half days a week.And I think now I'm. More like one and a half days a week. I take off like two or three weeks every month. But I, I'm not really practicing that much. I mean, last year we, we would say a really highly productive dentist, like, man, if you could produce a million with your own hands, I think last year I did like 360,000.It wasn't a lot, but that's all I wanna do. So that's cool with me. And now that I'm like partly paid as an associate with the dsl, Some of my paychecks for every two weeks are pretty laughable. it's like, oh, well you are two weeks and you made a hundred bucks.All right, cool. You know, it's like, cuz, but I'm cool with that cuz I'll take time off and, and I'm not, I'm not a producer anymore. I'm much more valuable to the practice as a leader and a trainer and just, um, reaping the benefits of ownership. Even though I still own, I don't own a hundred percent. I'm still reaping a lot of benefits from owning this large practice.Michael: Yeah. Okay man. So you were practicing three days. Before, now you're at two days a week, right? Like about two, two half days, five hour days. Two, two and a half days. Yeah. why did you sell them? Paul: you know, as you're looking at the dollars, you, there was always this fear of delta for so many, I mean, I have Delta's, 35% of my practice.There was always this fear that my whole business model could change by the stroke of a pen. You know, we were, I 85% p p o, 15% cash. Um, 35% Delta Premier p o. And it was just like looking at the numbers, there's this consolidation happening in the industry. It's like, things are hot. It's like we're the, we're like where the housing market was like last summer, you know, it's like, This is the time to sell if I can sell. So it was just looking at numbers, looking at what I have saved up, looking at what, and I've always been doing like real estate investing, so I've got some passive income on the side coming from there. Oh. And just being like, can I. Float with this? Yeah. I mean, could it be really lucrative?Yeah. I mean, it's been better than ever thought it could be. I mean, one of the great things I know I'm not doing a plug for, for MB two by any means, but one of the great things is they let us to, they let us invest in the company. And that's worked out really, really well. So I've actually made way more by selling than I would've keeping the ownership, if you can believe it.Now is, is, are those returns gonna be here five, 10 years from now? I don't know. This is half because private equity really likes dentistry right now. but I can say there's a lot of ill feelings towards corporate, um, with my corporation. I don't feel that, I don't think any of the members do. And I will tell you, I didn't lose a single team member during the transition.And for all intents and purposes, my team doesn't even know they exist. You know, it's, it's, it's still my practice and I think that's kind of what they're not saying. There's not some crappy ones out there that we should stay away from, but, I'm really happy with the decision that I made with mine.Michael: Yeah. I've been hearing a lot about MB two actually. Like where they, so what, what do they do? Are they just A D S O? Paul: Yeah. I mean, they call themselves A D P O, which is just, I think, just a way to brand themselves different from the D S O nastiness, uh, D P O P standing for partnership. And, um, you know, they just handle some stuff on the backend.They, they handle my insurance collections and that stuff like that. They do the credentialing, they do the hr, they do, um, my marketing. Um, they do pretty much anything I ask them for that they can help me admin, backend wise, talking to the companies and, and getting in increases in the fee schedule, stuff like that.But I mean, for, for the most part, I mean, I have a regional manager, her name's that she's great. And she's just like, gosh, I, I just hadn't been in practice forever. I feel like you never want me to come there. Like, I wanna do something for you. Like, what can I do? And I'm like, mm-hmm. We're good. We're totally good.So they're cool with, like, they trust their partners to run the practices the way they, they want to, cuz they're very selective with who they partner with too. Mm-hmm. Um, and they just let us do what we want. You know, I'm, I'm still running it, it still feels like it's a hundred percent my practice. I, I make all the decisions.If I need help, I reach out. If I don't want help, I don't. And for me, my practice was running pretty well. It was pretty systematized already. Last thing I wanted was a corporation to come in here and tell me, tell us how to do things. My team would've hated me. So, um, I, I found the group that would allow me to continue my autonomy and running the practice the way that I want to and taking care of patients the way I want to.So, I mean, they're there for help, but I mean, for the most part it's, we've just banded together and we get the benefits of being a group. And we get the support that by no means are they the group that if you're like, dude, I can't do this anymore. I just want someone to come in and take over my practice and run it.That's not the group. You know, there's, there's other groups that'll do that. And I think, I think that sounds really good, but you're probably gonna be miserable. You sign up with a group like that, you're not gonna about Michael: that. Yeah. So then you mainly kind of did it for, I mean, how long were you running this on your own Nelson?Paul: Um, right about eight years. Eight years. Michael: Eight years, okay. Do you feel like it was, at one point you were kind of like, I don't want the weight of the world right now on me as of for right now, at least maybe later on, but right now I don't kind of thing. Is that what it Paul: was? It was, yeah. Absolutely, man.It was, it was just a heavy weight. That's the best way I could describe it. It was just always freaking there. And, and there was, and, and I've also done like life coaching and I've, I've always been a big fan of therapy and I've always been working with a therapist on and off for my, my whole maybe the past 15 years of my life.And, um, it was just heavy man and it was just always there. And it was spilling over into other relationships where I was just kind of just grumpy, man. I was just overwhelmed and pissed off. And, It just seemed like my whole entire, as this practice grew from, you know, just me and three other girls to like this 45 person team and other doctors and specialists and stuff, and I just felt like this house of car is just gonna tip.Any moment what is gonna be the, what's gonna be the Goldman Sachs of this practice, you know, like, what is, what's gonna happen? And, um, I felt like that the whole time that I was the a hundred percent owner that it was. And so it's me. It's my thought process, it's my mindset. it's my makeup of my just general relationship with anxiety and how I look at things.But that can make me a very good leader and a very good business owner because I'm striving to try to get something that's gonna make me feel better. But at the same time, it's also like a curse because I never get to really feel comfortable about it. Mm-hmm. So for me, it was I just wanted that comfort.I wanted to feel comfort. And it took, you know, some like, things happened in my life, like read a certain book, like some like aha moments. Um, one of the books was like, die was Zero. I'm not sure if you read with that, but it kind of talked about how we like build this big nest egg so that we can just retire when it's like, dude, we don't know how much time we have.And if you take any money to the grave with you, essentially worked for that for free. That was free work you did, cuz you never got to enjoy the fruits of that labor. So why the hell try to save everything and start trying to enjoy life now? Man, I can go hiking, I can climb mountains, I can do all this stuff.I might not be able to do that when I'm 50. I can play golf, like I can play golf five days a week if I want right now. And um, Monday my back might not allow me to do that. So why am I waiting until like, to build this big thing before I can retire? So I've kind of entered into this almost like mini retirement phase where, I would say like, it's not retirement, but it's, it's, it is freedom.You know? Mm-hmm. It would be like the fire principles, I suppose. so it's like, dude, like that's totally cool. Like, you crazy. You're 39 years old. What the heck are you doing? Like, are you gonna do for the rest of your life? I'm like, I don't know. I'd love to be a fireman.Apparently I'm too old for that. I guess you gotta be like 30 or something. I don't know. I'd like to go do something different, you know? And, uh, I don't know what that's gonna be. And you know what, if it's really dentistry and I just really love it and I wanna own a hundred percent practice, I go do it again.I'll do it faster, I'll do it better. And um, yeah, I'll do it better than I did it last time. You know, I, I'm comfortable with that, that, I can do that. And then as a fail safe, I can always go back to just for doing dentistry five days a week as an associate. If I like, I mean, I can do whatever. How can I want?so, but, but I've got that comfort now and, and I was always seeking that, which is I think is part of the motivation behind me reaching all these success points. Cuz I was trying to find something, man, once I get that, it's gonna feel good, it's gonna feel different. It never did. I had everything I needed the whole time.It just had to get to the end to kind of realize that. Yeah. Michael: Do you think maybe you kind of, like you were thinking you were reaching something, but really you were kind of running away from something? Hmm. You know what I mean? Like maybe something in the past where you're like, I, I never want to feel that feeling again.I never wanna get to that situation again. And you just kept running and running and running. Maybe Paul: I, I think for me, I was running away from just a general sense of anxiety and for me to stay busy at work, felt good. You know, and, and people like, I like to say, man, I grinded these years, man. I grinded so hard.It wasn't a grind. I mean, it was hard, but it was like, I was drawn to it. I liked doing it. I didn't like sitting, I hate sitting. to the detriment of my family, it was hard just to sit and just be, it was always like, man, I should get some more stuff done. What do I got to do? Like, what do I gotta do this week?I should get it done so I, so I can relax. And then what would happen is I would get all the stuff done and I wouldn't relax. I'd be thinking about, man, what else can I do? And, um, Just got myself really overbooked with, I mean, with the podcast, with the writing and, uh, the practice and the real estate and, and doing like separate, like just teaching videos, coaching, consulting and stuff.I mean, I was just overbooked it was like I just wasn't comfortable sitting and through therapy through my life coach. My life coach really made a really big difference. And she even said like, I took my coaching clients. I cut 'em down from 15 to five. And she said, what do you think about making a commitment for the next six months that you won't take on any projects?I said, sure, let's, let's do it. So we committed to it, but damn, it was hard. cuz I started having all this time that I wasn't used to. I'm like, what do I do with this time? I'm like, I should start another project. Maybe I'll write another book. Maybe I'll do this. And I'm like, no, no more projects until six months from now.And through that process, it's almost like I discovered this part of myself that I was kind of. Not comfortable with was just doing nothing. Just watching tv, just like sitting, putting my daughter to bed and, and laying in bed with her for like 45 minutes to an hour and just talking to her about her day.Whereas I would be like, okay, I gotta get these kids to bed. I got stuff to do. committing to a one, one or two date nights with my wife every week, like, as like a priority. Like, it's not like we can, if we can find time and, and not to say that my relationships with my family was bad before, but.Man, it, it's night and day to how it is now, but I had to, it was uncomfortable at first to sit and just be idle because it felt, that's what it felt like to me. It felt like idleness and I didn't like that. But then I had to start realizing then, and then you, connect and you're like, man, I really like this.This is okay. Like I don't have to be running and. in rat racing my whole entire life, what the hell is it worth? And just looking at what are we doing this for? Like this, these deep like spiritual, like conscious, like, the spirituality of like, what are we here for? What are, what are, what is our purpose?What are we here to do? And so it was just everything kind of happened in a succession and I think it happened for a reason. I wish I could have skipped a lot of parts of it. But I don't think I would've came out to where I'm at if I did skip those parts. So it's like if I could change things, I would've done 'em differently, but I wouldn't know what I know if I hadn't done things the way I did 'em.Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, that's true. Like, I remember I used to feel bad all the time about like relaxing, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then you go on social media and people are like, I'm hustling, I'm grinding, and all these things. Yeah. And I, I feel like whenever you're, not doing nothing, like when you're doing nothing kind of thing, That's when a lot of creativity can spark.But we live in a day and age where we call that boredom. Yeah. And so we're like, oh, he's just bored. But we gotta be good with that. We gotta be good with feeling like we're not doing nothing for, you know what I mean? Like being in the moment kind of thing. Absolutely. Um, or else for ne we not, you can tell the world's not creative as much as it used to be.Right. We're just like regurgitating stuff from the past and the past and the past and cuz we can't. We feel guilty for relaxing, I guess, Paul: huh? Well, I'll, I'll tell you something I do, and this is gonna sound like some like major, like old man stuff for people, but like, I got this recliner in my bedroom and, and people always come in my bedroom and they say, why is this recliner not based on the tv?Because you can't see, you can't see the TV from the recliner. And it, it, it was like originally bought as like, I wanna read in this chair. But you know, a lot of times, like, dude, I just sit in that chair and it's right by a window. Open the window, listen to birds. And I just sit, man. And sometimes I fall asleep and sometimes I don't.And it's just nice just to, it's relaxing, but it's, it's not me relaxing watching something being distracted. It's me just sitting with my thoughts, just focusing on my breath, and just chilling out. And for me before that would be like, dude, Do something. Look at all this time, you're wasting doing nothing.That's not a waste of time. That is for me. And that's what recharges me and makes me feel good. And I, I never realized it before. Mm-hmm. Michael: I like that man. So then when did the second book come out? Like was that out of, uh, Paul: After six months or so, you, you'll, you'll, this is all tied together now, where this book came from.This, I wrote this during Covid. So this was me being home with nothing to do 24 hours a day and being like, I got all this time. Let's write another book. And you know what, what I realized my first book was kind of where I was at the time that I wrote it. And, and the books are, they're always written about two years before they come out.So, the first book was about running an amazing practice. This book was about how I stepped out of the chair. And what I noticed in my income as well, the growth, growth of the practice, when I started just like leading and training and like realizing that I'm more valuable as a trainer than I am as a producer.Cuz there was a certain point where I looked at my practice and I said, okay, like if I treat myself as an associate and I pay myself 30% of my production, how much did I take home last year? That was because I got paid 30% of my production and it was like 15%. So the other 85% of my take home income was because I was an owner.But then I was spending 90% of my time doing production activities and maybe 10% doing ownership a activities. So as much as my patients love me and they wanna see me, and the Hi Jess, love working with me and everyone wants to work with Dr. Etch, I was way more valuable spreading my uh, Training and, and what I knew and helping other people grow at the practice I was monetarily and for, for them too, like, I mean, just being present and working with people.Um, I was more valuable doing that. It was much more, uh, financially rewarding and it was me producing dentistry. And that kind of made me realize, man, I'm just, I just stopped doing fillings, eventually stopped doing crowns. stop doing endo and, and now all I do is I do banded bracket on kids in Invisalign.You know, that's pretty much my whole five and a half hour day. And then my other five hour day is just me doing like veneers and placing an implant or two. But, I think next year I only have maybe eight of those days that I booked for 2024. And so it's, I'm sorry, 2023. I think I only have eight of those days that I'm doing that.And the team might wrote me into doing some more, but I kind of don't want to, I just wanna, I love doing ortho. Yeah. I's, uh, the other part's starting to wear on me? ortho is predictable and everything else in dentistry to me is it's, it's unpredictable. I mean, to some extent, and I just think I don't like that level of predictability or of unpredictability.I don't have that level of unpredictability with my team, you know, with my team. So it's doing what I enjoy doing, and it's what the practice needs. Every practice needs a person. I mean, if you could focus full time on running your practice, Man, what would your practice do? So that, that's the purpose of the book, is like, how do we get ourselves outta the chair?And for me it's a lot of leadership principles such as like you owning everything like your locus of control, I call it. Um, balancing your, your regular workload with what I call celebratory work with. Just like this is the stuff, this is the investments in time, this is you training someone else to do something.This is your delegation. just making sure that you've got a compass that's, that's guiding you, that every decision, little decision you make is taking you there. there's a lot of mindset stuff that I think is more important than the actual mechanics. The second half of the book talks about the mechanics and what I think are the best systems, the best things for treatment plan, presentation, what things we can train our team on to make our practices better. But I think ultimately that beginning part of the book, that first half is what's really important. That's the leadership. That's communication. How do we deal with team? What kind of attitude do we approach?Conflict? What kind of attitude do we approach growth and, and collaboration? And, and that's kind of all in there because I think that's something I've learned. Maybe I had an inclination. I was kind of lucky that this came easy to me. But, um, That's what I think has made the biggest difference in my practice.It's not the what, it's the how we've done it and, and, and the meaning behind it rather than the actual, this is what we did. If that makes sense. Michael: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Uh uh, uh, instructions are always better, right? Like, give me the meat and potatoes of everything. Not so much like the, nobody wants to fluff, right?Mm-hmm. Uh, of anything. But, um, I think that's really interesting when it comes to the marketing side of your practice. Mm-hmm. And, um, Your systems? How did that come along? Paul: For marketing specifically, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So for marketing, we used to try a lot of modalities. We would try like, I mean we tried like the ads, the sponsorships and stuff like that, and we still do some team sponsorships, but I would say we don't do mailers anymore.It's kind of just come into what I think is the most important is just seo your digital image, like your DI digital reputation. And making sure that when people are searching you, that uh, you show up and that you have a nice website and, uh, some nice media and pictures and, and videos on there to back it up.And then it's like, I mean, marketing, we're trying to generate a phone call. We've gotta follow through by having nice patient experience on that end. I don't think the majority of our patients come from either the internet or existing patients. Typically right now are seeing about 180 new patients a month.We've seen when we came six months after Covid, when we had a ton of availability, we saw like 230, which was a huge indicator to me that, man, we could really blow these doors open if we could find some more hygienists. But, yeah, I haven't cracked that. Not yet. I haven't figured that one out yet. I don't know where they all went.They all went, moved some island or something. Yeah. And uh, I think the biggest thing is, is for us is digital. I mean, we pay per click, um, just Facebook stuff and, you know, and I, I tell my coaching clients all the time, You'd be blown away how many new patients you could see if one, you stayed open late or two when you saw a new patient.You tried to get the rest of the family to book if when they came in there for visit. And I can't tell you how many coaching classes don't do that. They're just like, man, like we just started getting so many new patients. Cuz we just started asking. And it's not like you're asking like, Hey, you got anybody looking?You know anyone looking for a good dentistry? It's not doing that. It's saying, Hey, is there anyone else in your family you wanna make an appointment for? And then they'll say, oh, my husband, he's, he's busy. I'll have him call. Well, why don't we just make an appointment and he can call if it, when it gets closer, he'll get some reminder texts if he needs to change it.Okay. You know, you just get him on the schedule and not be pushy. I mean, but, um, doesn't cost a sign. Yeah. I mean that's just, that's just normal. That's just having a checkout protocol that your team follows and you just hold them accountable to it. Yeah, you're right. That's Michael: not being pushy. It's just like, it's being easy.Like, hey, let's just get 'em on that, you know what I mean? Like, put him on there. Right now it's no, no, no issue. You know what I m

Dear Songwriter! In this episode, we're delving into the fascinating world of lyrical motifs, unraveling their significance, and exploring their creative potential in crafting impactful verses. What is a lyrical motif you ask?...Well, join me as I shed some light on the concept of lyrical motifs and unveil the art of incorporating recurring themes into your songs. Discover how these captivating threads can weave together a compelling narrative, evoke emotions, and leave a lasting imprint on your listeners. If lyrical motifs are still a bit of a mystery to you, listen in on this episode and we'll explore them together!Other Mentions and Links:If I Ain't Got You - Alicia KeysSomething - The BeatlesBook a Call with Me!

‍(If you DO want to work with Studio8E8, be sure to mention this podcast/ episode!)Reach out to Studio8E8 here: https://s8e8.com/affiliates/tdm?utm_source=tdm&utm_medium=affiliate&wc_clear=true‍‍Hey what's up guys? In this Monday Morning Marketing episode, I'm joined by our good friend, and website expert, Joshua Scott. Joshua breaks down his four essential website attributes that contribute to a seamless and engaging patient experience. From intuitive navigation and captivating visuals, to personalized content and convenient appointment booking systems, we explore how these elements can elevate your online presence and attract more patients to your practice. We also discuss the rising concern for ADA(American Disabilities Act) compliance, and how you can stay in the clear if this is a concern in your area!‍Join our conversation for actionable tips, trends, and must-haves to enhance your dental website's user experience and drive success in the digital realm!‍You can reach out to Joshua Scott here:Website: https://s8e8.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshuascott/Email: joshua@s8e8.com‍Other Mentions and Links:‍SwellGoogle Ad WordsLocalMedNext HealthPractice by NumbersChatGPTDon NormanModentoHIPAA - Health Insurance Portability and Accountability ActBirdseyeADA - American Disabilities ActADA Compliance Company - Equally.aiDentistry IQ‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey, Josh, so talk to us about websites. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through our website? Joshua: Hey, Michael, always great to be back for another mm m. TripleM, mq, I dunno what you call it, Michael: m squared Joshua: times three m and m and m Monday morning Marketing.Uh, but no, I, I wanted to kind of come at this, uh, from a little bit of a different conversation that we've been having with our clients lately. They actually started as a conversation with our team. It actually kind of started post covid conversation with the team. Some of the trends we were seeing and then has, Build out with our client base, but it's really a conversation behind your website's UX design.And what that means is a user experience design. And so when you get into kind of agency and design world, especially with, with digital products, mobile products, you're gonna hear people talk about the ux, like, what's the UX like? Or, I really enjoy the ux and what that means is, You're not just putting something out there for function, you're putting something out there that's designed with the user in mind.So I thought we would talk about that for a little bit. Some areas we're seeing that and then actually kind of hit at the end, maybe some ADA compliance that just kind of seems to be at odds with that. But we can talk through it a little bit. Okay, man. Yeah, let's dive into it. So, um, uh, just me doing a little research, uh, Don Norman, is the one who really kind of coined the term user experience.He's a cognitive scientist. and he said user experience encompasses all aspects of the end user's interaction with the company, its services and its products. And so when you're putting out a website, Anymore. I mean, this is the digital version of your practice. Like before people step in the door to this physical practice, they are on your website.This is how people experience you, that patient experience, that new patient experience. And so it's your ux. Really designing a site without a mind is about the feelings and emotions users experience when interacting with your website. So if you think about that right now, kind in this post covid world, think about it from a, a convenience.Lens, right? Like we all now are interacting with our healthcare providers. We're interacting with our pizza, like our Friday night pizza place through, through text. You know, I mean, I'm placing an order online and then I'm getting a text. Hey, your order's been submitted, you know, be here in 15 minutes. And then as I'm pulling it up, I get another text.Your order is ready. Come, come in and pick it. Pick it up. So we're all interacting with our favorite companies like this. And so thinking about that user experience from that type of convenience, user friendliness, part of it, I think is number one. So, convenience, uh, user friendliness, the journey.And really just what do you want people, like, what do you want them feeling when they get off of the website? that's the question to ask. You can build a website that's SEO forward, uh, you can build an a, uh, website that is like going to convert for Google AdWords. But I think you also, an equally important question in that is what do you want that patient to feel?Mm-hmm. Is it frustration because they've had the, like, input stuff into a form four, four times? Or is it because they were two clicks away from making an appointment and they go, wow, that was easy. Michael: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. Okay, so let me ask you personally, what do you want to feel? Yeah, your dentist, like your people that you go visit.How does that work? Joshua: yeah, when it comes time to actually convert on a transaction. Whether I'm ordering pizza on Friday night or whether I'm scheduling a healthcare appointment. Yeah, I want it to be easy. I want it to be straightforward, Michael, you know, when you're on those like websites and it just feels like it's from like 1995 when you're trying to like, like the form that comes up.Mm-hmm. You're like, wait, what is this thing? It doesn't have auto fill. Like you've gotta type in everything. Um, You know, you drop down, like, like your country gets a dropdown menu and it's, and the United States is all the way at the bottom when 90% of your users are in the United States. Yeah. You know, those types of things.And, and you go like, that's not that big of a deal. It just is, you know, like we're talking about as least amount of friction as little time, convenience, friendliness as possible. Michael: Where do you see the drop off? Then if you can give us like a, a number on that where it's like, okay, man, they almost made it.To submit that form, but you lost them here. Joshua: Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know that I have data on that. I think some of this, and one of the things I wanted to talk about was really kind of the four, I think, convenience pieces of a website right now, kind of post covid and, and I think some of this, to answer your question is cuz the first one is, is about online scheduling.Like I think. We're just at a place now, like, man, you've gotta have online scheduling on your site. and when you ask like, what's the drop off? I think if you're using a lot of these premier, uh, partners out there, like Local Med Next Health, you know, practice by numbers, some of these guys, I think they've built really good user experiences into those apps.So, you know, I don't know that you're gonna have that much of a problem, but if you're using, a different one, I, I don't even know a good example right now, but, here's one of the things I recommend, right? Like if you implement online scheduling, go through that process yourself and schedule yourself an appointment to see how it feels.I, I've seen so many practices implement things like this, and then they're like, I don't know, like I'm like, you're getting 18 texts within a 48 hour period of time. Is that what you wanted? Well, why? I didn't know that. And I'm like, well, right. But like put yourself through that process. Tweak it, edit it.Make sure it's saying what you want it to say. Make sure it's doing what you want it to do. But you know, online scheduling is huge. You're gonna see an increase in your website, effectiveness, uh, you're gonna see an increase in new patients. It's just all these things. Now, um, there's actually stats and, and reports out there that are saying online scheduling.It's actually reducing no shows, which is everybody's argument. Like, oh, if I, if I do online scheduling, no shows are gonna go up. On the whole, once you get that implemented and you build systems around that nohow go down, it saves staff time. You're gonna get better insights into your data online. Uh, and it's mobile accessible.People can make an appointment right on their mobile phone. So my first one there was, was online scheduling. Get that implemented. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. I like that, that you mentioned you gotta build systems around it because, you know what I mean? We always just thought like, yeah, you have that button on there and that's it.Yeah. Uh, but it's the. The follow up process in the systems. Awesome. So what are the next Joshua: stuff? Yeah, the the next one is, is, I mean, there's, there's four of these really, but it's, it's implementing these integrations to make this a more friendly and convenient experience. The second one's chat, you know, adding a live chat feature, uh, dentistry iq, so it can double the amount of website visitors scheduling an appointment.you get this online schedule app, but if you add text, those online appointments go up twice as much. It's just facts from dentistry iq, uh, and I think, you know, 63% of millennials right now say that they prefer chat over phone calls. Again, that's just in the world we're in. If you have to pick up the phone to call an actual human, we feel like it's an inconvenience, you know, like, like, man, why am I, why are they making me do that?So, you know, I think implementing chat into your site, just making sure I, I'm not a fan of the automated chat bots. I still don't think they sound human. So I think you still gotta have somebody like on that and monitoring it. But again, like we're talking about optimizing your website for that ux. If you have online scheduling, but you don't have chat, you're potentially leaving half of those conversions on the website.Mm-hmm. So I think that's an important piece. Michael: Okay. So chat and not so much like the AI chat is what you're saying, right? Like actually have somebody on there at 11:00 PM like where it's like, Hey man, the beer bottle just broke my tooth. What do I do? Or, or what are you thinking? Joshua: Well, you could set up like hours around it, you know, and, and when people are available to monitor it and you can kind of turn it off and on for sure.Um, but yeah, you know, I mean chat, g p d as, as good as it is, um, I don't know that we're quite there yet for answering those, those questions and, and plus I, we, People just have still an expectation that chat means there's another human there. Um mm-hmm. You know, responding to them. so I think that's a big one.You know, patient forms is my number three and, and I'm bringing these up man, cause I'm actually not a partner. Like, I don't partner with any of these companies. and we, we integrate, we've built integrations with all of them, you know, into our, our web experiences. But I'm not from Meto or Local Med or, yeah.You know, Nexel, like promoting it. I'm just going, no guys, these are really, really important tools that we see the analytics behind it. It, it's huge. And so, you know, I think Patient Forms is a third one. Uh, you know, we're now, it's like it's tipped more than 50% of patients want online forms before they get to an appointment.Uh, nobody wants to sit there with the clipboard and fill stuff out. And then, you know, the other thing too is like, what online forms are doing is it's really consolidating stuff into, you filled it out one time. I don't know how many, uh, healthcare appointments you've been to where it's like, You answer the questions on the phone, then you get the form and you fill it out again.And each form has like your mailing address on it. You know, so like the new patient form, you gotta like write out your whole mailing address. Then the health history form, you gotta write out your mailing address again. Yeah. And then the HIPAA form, you gotta write out your mailing address a third time.And it's like, why are we, I get to the point where I'm, I'm so irritated writing out my mailing address. and so online forms reduce that. Uh, it improves accuracy again, like if your front office is just swamped. Man, putting some of these efficiencies in place will help them a ton. Okay, Michael: gotcha. So patient forms online.Joshua: Yeah. Yeah. And, and then the last one man was just reviews. Um, you know, and I know we all like know the importance of reviews now, but really just building that into your web experience. Again, it's that user, um, that UX first, seeing social proof, giving pa your patients a chance to, you know, one, the two clicks away from leaving a review as well.yeah, I don't know. I don't really need to go into the. The importance of reviews. I think we're all there now in 2023, but Swell BirdEye, these are both companies that do an amazing job with that. And um, so, so I think as you're thinking through the UX of your site, the first question, big picture was how do I create a easy, convenient, friendly user experience for my patients?Here are four tools I think will help you do that if implemented. Right. and then before we go here, I can talk about ADA a compliance a little bit. Okay. Yeah, Michael: man. Let's, let's dive into that a little bit because I know, um, I think that's coming up a little bit more often now. I don't know, do you see that or?Joshua: We do. Um, and, and just to be clear, when we're talking about ADA compliance, we're talking about American Disabilities Acts, not the American Dental Association. And so it's really about, uh, we see it more in bigger cities and honestly specifically San Francisco. So, um, for whate and. and we've, we've actually seen a little bit in Dallas too, uh, and maybe one in New York, but it's, I think it's, what happens is it's where somebody else has a lawsuit brought against them for their website not being ADA a compliant, and then all the other dentists in the area freak out about it.And then we get it like emails from our clients like, Hey, are we ADA a compliant? And so the, the question to that is really three levels of it that I want to give you. So ADA compliance is about making your website. Compliant for Americans with disabilities. And so that includes things like color, font size, the color of the font on the backgrounds, how big the buttons are, things like that to help, you know, people with disabilities navigate a site.the truth is that is often at odds with. The experience, the aesthetic experience, the brand experience we want to create with a website. Mm-hmm. And so the quick answer is our websites and I, and most people out there have done a base level job of creating a website that's a d a compliant. So we kind of go, here are the factors.We think we want the buttons to be a certain, you know, a size on a phone. We want it to scroll. When it comes to like, you know, you put text over a photo. Is that ADA a compliant? Probably not. You know, they want white text on a black background or white text on a dark blue background, something like that so people can read it easy.So there's a couple solutions and one of 'em, you can get an a ADA widget that actually lives at the bottom of your site. You can click on it and then you can actually adjust anything you want. You can adjust colors, you can take the pictures out, you can increase the font sizes. So it gives your users the ability to come on and go, wow, this font size is way too small and increase it.Mm-hmm. Or, I'm having trouble reading that text over the photos. Let me take those out and replace 'em with solid backgrounds. So that's one option. The downside is they start messing around with this stuff and it, it makes your website look jacked up. I mean, we, as a team, we were, we were messing around with some of these sites on a Monday morning.With this ADA compliant widget, and it's like, it, it can really, I mean, you wanna laugh and have a good time, it can really make your website look crazy. yeah, so it's, it's kinda, but that tends to, I think it's like 30 bucks a month that tends to solve most people's issues. If you're in an area where you're just hyper aware of it, hypersensitive you, you've got lawsuits happening left and right.Like if you were in San Francisco, I would tell you there's even a third level of working with, uh, some of these agencies. They will custom design this, like they'll take this widget and customize it for your site. So it's not just applying like blanket parameters, it's actually like increase the font. It increases the font in scale overall.So the website actually still looks nice and is functional. And they typically provide consultation and even legal protection. Typically those packages are like 3,500. but they, again, they customize the a d a, uh, whatever parameters on your site. So your site still looks good if they have to adjust that.But it also offers some legal protection as well. Michael: Well, do you guys, the Studio 88, do that customize. Joshua: we actually will provide that to our clients as a, um, if they get into that, we basically connect them with that company, with that agency. And, and Michael? I, I don't know it off the top of my head.I kind of, you know, we were chatting about this for a minute before the show and I was like, yeah, I can talk about it. I can send you who we work with. You can maybe put in the show notes. Yeah, Michael: that, yeah, that'd be awesome. That'd be, especially for our San Fran. Yeah. I don't know why it's only happening out there, but you know what I mean.Or Dallas too, but, Joshua: San Fran and California, man, it's a whole different world and I think when it comes to, um, governing Yeah, so it's, they just tend to, to have different regulations than sometimes the rest of the country. Yeah. Michael: It's crazy, man. But awesome. So you've given us a lot to think about, especially when it comes to much just building systems to make it efficient, right?To make it. More human with the chat feature. Uh, patient forms, efficiency, and then the reviews. Obviously reviews are super duper important no matter what, right? That's that, that's that proof that you're talking about that we're gonna need no matter what. And then, um, putting the systems around, the online scheduling.Awesome. Josh, man, we really appreciate this. If anybody has any questions or they wanna reach out to you, where can they find you? Joshua: Man, best place for me. Uh, if you wanna hit me up on Instagram, uh, it's at Joshua Scott. I'm still in that account still. Check it. DM me, tell me you heard the episode. I'll, I'll, you know, shout out you back.Uh, you can also visit us online at s eight e eight.com. That's the letter s, the number eight, the letter E, the number eight.com. And uh, you can reach out to us there as well. Michael: Nice man. And guys, check out Studio 80 eights websites. They're, uh, we were talking about this right before we got on in. You guys are all about the user, right?Use your experience first, especially the design. Everybody, pretty much everybody listening right now kind of knows about like, okay, we've heard of Studio 88 and how elevated you guys are, right? So, um, I highly recommend people if they want, can they just schedule like a free, I don't know, like, Hey man, check, check out my stuff.Can you, can you check it out? For Joshua: free. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. That's actually part of our kind of, uh, initial consultative phone call is just like going through like, what are you doing? Like, what's working, what's not working? What, what's your budget been? You know, we look at the website, look at the seo, kind of do an analysis so that we go into it.We, we actually can give advice too. A lot of times what I tell people is I'm like, I hope you at least walk away with some advice on this phone call, whether or not you want to use us or not. Even if I'm my second opinion, you're like, this company's telling me X, Y, Z, and I'm like, Yeah. Uh, x, y, Z is right.So, you know, if you need the second opinion on it, like we, we can do that as well. I like that. Michael: Yeah, Josh told us. Yes. So we're gonna do it. Gotcha. Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show below. Definitely schedule your free comprehensive assessment, um, and check it out. So thank you so much, Josh for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.Joshua: Always a pleasure, man.‍‍‍

Today we're going to introduce a game changer in the dental practice management software world...‍‍This is an innovative, all-in-one, cloud-based practice management software, and it offers an array of powerful features that are custom built for dentists by dentists ready to revolutionize the way you work. ‍If you are a start-up and decide to sign up with Oryx, they will NOT charge you a single dime, until you reached 200 active patients!⁠⁠They are partnering up with all startup practice owners and making sure you succeed, fast!⁠⁠ Click this link to schedule a FREE personalized demo and to see more on their exclusive deal!⁠‍‍‍Guest: Jay LetwatBusiness Name: SunbitCheck out Jay's Media:Website: https://sunbit.com/Email: jay@sunbit.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:FicoBeyoncéT-MobileBurger KingCheesecake FactoryStarbucksVantageExperianiPadGimbelsTargetCare CreditLending ClubTerminatorEBITDA - earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortizationFlip the Script - Oren Klaff‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Expensive treatment plans can build a wall of resistance in a patient's mind. Be sure to address these fears, and provide customizable options for financing.Sunbit approves approximately 85% of patients who need care for financing options. That's more than double the average!Nobody budgets for a $3,000 dental procedure out of the blue. Be sure to stress that patients don't have to pay all of this at once!The credit approval system in the US has largely been untouched since the 60's. It is about time to update the process and allow more accessibility.The patients that are scared away by price will mostly likely never return. Having great finance options will help them feel safe and included!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guest, Jay Lewa. Jay, how's it going? Jay: Everything is great, Michael, how are you? Michael: I'm doing pretty good, man. I'm doing pretty good. I appreciate you coming on. If you don't mind me asking. I know, I know. But like for our listeners, where are you located?Jay: Based in, uh, Los Angeles. Based in Los Angeles. Yeah, that's where our headquarters are at. Michael: How are you liking this Jay: rain? It's kind of new to me, to be honest with you. I've, I've only been in LA for five, six years. Um, so it's new in the sense of la but like, I'm originally from the Midwest in Chicago, so it rains and snows and could snow in, you know, August could rain in, you know, March.So we used to kind of the four seasons here, people start to panic a little bit when the rain comes or when it gets cold. It's kind of funny, but, uh, but it's nice, it's fun. Yeah. Michael: Yeah, we do. Yeah, we, that happens a lot all the time, but Awesome man. Okay, so then tell us a little bit about your past, present.How'd you get to where you are today? Jay: Sure. So I've got about 20 years of experience, um, mainly on the technology disruption side. So I did a lot of consulting early on in my career. A lot of performance improvement, compliance work as well. Uh, then kind of moved along into the technology space and, and where I really have spent my time is in a lot of, um, startups or growing, uh, technology companies that have kind of passed the startup phase in which they have a unique technology and they need the ability to market that technology to the masses and, and typically, It's a company that, is really changing the game.It's really, really disruptive. So what I love to do and what I'm doing now at Sunbelt is we're taking a disruptive technology in the pay over time space. And what we're trying to do and what we're doing it successfully is gaining significant market share in many different vertical markets, including the one that I manage, which is, uh, the dental patient financing space.Michael: Okay, so break it down to me Sun Bit. I'm under the impression Sun Bit is a bank Jay: or no? No, we are, we are a technology company. So we have the, uh, technology that allows or enables folks to get approved at a very high level. the technology enables us to approve about 85% of all people that apply for financing.And, and if, I'm not sure how familiar or not you are with specific financing, but usually that number is in the 40% range, 35, 40% range. Particularly now in a, in a. Recessionary sort of environment, inflationary environment, it typically tops off at 30, 35%. We're more than double that. And a lot of it is really because of the technology that we use, a lot of ai, a lot of machine learning.Cuz at the end of the day, what we're really doing, it's basically a math problem, right? Because you go to a bank, when you're a small business, let's say, and you go for a loan, Most people get rejected for a loan, for, for many reasons, may maybe their, their overall credit isn't good. They haven't been in business that long because the bank doesn't wanna take a risk on you, right?Banks don't like taking risks. what we do is we're able, using our technology to provide folks all throughout the credit spectrum, you know, not so great credit. Mid-level credit, very high end credit. We're able to get all those folks the patient financing they need when they walk into that doctor office.And so we allow through the technology, more people to say yes to treatment. And that's ultimately what we're doing. We use, we have, uh, banks, that kind of administer the loans, but at the core, our focus is on the technology. Because it's really a technology problem, like, the ability to have someone who is, you know, a good person, but they may have subprime credit, Historically, those folks don't get credit, right? You go to to Target or Walmart or Nordstrom's or wherever. If you're subprime, you're not getting a credit card. When they ask you if you'd like to, you know, get a red card or get a Nordstrom card, right? What we're saying and what we're doing is we're enabling folks both at the low end of, of FCO and at the very high end, full spectrum.They can get the credit they need on the dental space as well as other verticals that we work with. And we're comfortable that we're going to get repaid and we do it in a fair and transparent way and cost effective for the patient or the customer. And you can only really do that. With like mathematical formulas, algorithms, ai, et cetera.This isn't, uh, you can't do it via spreadsheet like, like the banks do, and like some older, uh, patient financing companies that have been around for 30 years. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So I know you wanted to show something, right? Like a demo? Sure. Real quick. Sure. Of course. Sure. The demo is for what? Like for the patient doing Jay: it?Right. So what we do, maybe I can explain it a little bit. So mm-hmm. What we do is we do point of sale financing. So let's say you, um, haven't been to the dentist in a few years. You go to the dentist, they give you a comprehensive oral exam, they say, Michael, thanks for coming in. Appreciate it. Here's a list of seven things our doctor, uh, the dentist thinks you need to get done.Right. And those seven things have. Each, you know, a treatment and a cost, right? And at the end it's like, let's say $4,000. And they say, well Michael, how would you like to pay for the $4,000? And you're like, holy cow, I didn't budget for that. I don't have $4,000 in my pocket. Cuz it doesn't matter whether you have great credit you, you make a lot of money in your job or you don't.No one budgets. For unexpected medical expenses, like you can't go on your personal Quicken and, and, and say, okay, 2024, I'm gonna budget $3,000 for dental. Doesn't work that way. So what happens is that patient generally either says no to the treatment that they need, or they do kind of like a partial kind of, you know, French menu sort of thing where they say, okay, I'm gonna grab maybe the cavities here.You know, I'll, I'll take this $500 treatment here. But the other $3,000 doesn't really hurt me so much today, so I'm gonna go home and then when it really hurts me, maybe I'll come back. Right. And that's dentistry for the last 50 years, What they call case acceptance. So the ability of, let's say you, you have those seven things and it costs $4,000 and let's say you're only able Michael to, um, pay for 400 of that.Well, your case acceptance is basically 10%, right? $400. Divided by the 4,000 that you should have, uh, that you was prescribed to you, right? Which is terrible, which means 90% of your needs are not met, right? Mm-hmm. And you're walking out the door and probably never coming back. So that's kind of historic dental.So what we do is the patient comes in, they get qualified very quickly, and we approve nearly nine out of 10 folks. Without doing any kind of hard credit check, we do a soft credit check and the process is very simple, very clean. we like to think that it's like an un refinancing sort of transaction.It's almost like buying a coffee at a Starbucks drive-through. We want the experience to be not the same experience you get at a bank or from some old time patient finance company that, you know, maybe may still do it on, on pen and paper. Okay? Mm-hmm. So, That's kind of the preface of, of what we do. and I can, I can show you the kind of the process, how it works, because it's very, very different than anything you've seen or folks in the dental market for the past 20, 30 years.They've generally never seen it, and they usually have a very positive reaction to it. Like, you know, where have you been all my life? And can we talk and, and, you know, use this at your, at your practice. Yeah. Michael: Could we see it? Could we see how it Absolutely. How it works and stuff. And so absolutely. For absolutely.Sure. Sure. Our listeners listening right now, if you want to go on the show notes below, you can watch the video version of it and we can see it right now. Sure. Jay: so right on my screen, you see iPad. Okay. And that's the iPad I have in my hand right now. Okay.So we provide this iPad. To every dental office, and it could be more than one iPad, just depends on how many people, what kind of patient flow you have. So the first thing the, office team does is they will select their name. Okay? So again, this is a demo. Michael, who do you wanna be today? Michael: Beyonce always.Jay: Excellent, excellent choice. Who? Who doesn't wanna be Beyonce after all? Come on. Yeah, you click on Beyonce, then you click scan card, then we take the driver's license. Right? And it doesn't matter which state it works in all states. On the back is a barcode, right? So you take that barcode and what I do is I just scan that baby right there automatically.What happens is, and again this is in real time, I'm not, you know, slowing it down, speeding it up, takes my home information. Patient types in their phone number and email. They continue and then you simply ask the patient, Hey patient, is this your updated info? They usually say yes. You click copy to form the patients a agrees to check their options. And just like that you've been approved for $6,100. This is the approval process. Wow. That's it. We're done. Okay? Mm-hmm. So now there's a ton of things that happen in the background, right? But that's invisible to the practice, invisible to the patient, right? And again, this kind of goes into how we're a technology and data company.So a couple things here. One, you were approved for 6,100, we're approving every single patient. With a FCO score of 500 or greater. So when you, when if in terms of F ICOs, 500 is a very, very low F ico, right? Mm-hmm. But we're able to approve them because of our unique and flexible model. If you approve from 500, it equates to typically 85 to 87% of all patients that apply. So going back to the dentist example, the the office example, you know that. Eight and a half outta 10 people that walk in the office have the ability to get qualified for finance and can get the treatment they need.So that case acceptance number I gave you before, whether it's 10, 20, 30, or 40%, it shoots up dramatically so they can actually walk out being happy because they're, you know, dental problems are solved. Okay. So the first thing, high approval, second thing, we never do a hard credit check. So in the us, typically when you are.you know, when I signed up for T-Mobile mm-hmm. They do a hard credit check, which impacts your credit. It's not fun. Right. We do a soft inquiry to get to this point. So all we do is, get basic information. It doesn't impact your credit score whatsoever, but the kicker is, even if you decide to move forward with the loan, we still do not do a hard credit check.So it has no impact. Your credit has no impact. If you apply or take the loan initially, which is again, very, very unique. And again, it kind of is because of our kind of technology backbone. And the last thing is we approve up to $20,000. So I'll just show you one more screen. Mm-hmm. So let's say for instance, your treatment plan is 2100 bucks.So you click 2100. And then what we have here is basically. A menu of options like, you know, burger King, have it your way. Other, partners of our, of ours call it the Cheesecake Factory Menu of options here, we usually have three to six options here, right? We highlight the one that's the most affordable.So, hey, patient, you don't have to pay $2,100 today. Again, sigh of relief, right? You can pay 48 months, 48 to over 48 months, 56 bucks. In this particular case, it's a dollar down payment. Again, eight APRs vary. It could be 0%, um, or higher. In this particular case, let's say it's 12.99, you see everything very clearly delineated.There's no tricks, there's no penalties. Uh, we don't do any kind of deferred interest. If you're familiar with that, maybe the patient wants 0%. We have 0% options too. And so the idea is, and they just kind of select what they want. They kind of go through, the process. Make sense. Go the z Michael: go to the zero present one real quick.Sure, no problem. Okay. Okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So it, it all changes throughout the, you're not set with the percentage then? Jay: Correct. So the, the idea is, The patient gets to choose what's best for them, right? We don't wanna make a judgment call, right? We don't wanna be judgmental, period in life, right?We don't know what shoes the other person's sitting in, but particularly the dental office. I mean, you don't know whether somehow someone is dressed and, and we shouldn't be making that. Let's let the patient decide maybe they're comfortable with 121 bucks a month. But maybe they're not. Maybe $56 is more comfortable for them.We let them decide, and that's kind of the power of the solution. There's again, three to six unique offers that they're getting, and they choose what's best for them. That's kind of part of the secret. If you give a product that's customizable to the individual, They're gonna like it more, and oh, by the way, they're going to pay us back at a higher rate, right?Which lowers the defaults, which again allows us to loan to more people. here's something like I learned early on. So payday loans, right? Terrible, horrible, predatory, four, 500% terrible. Mm-hmm. Well, why? Why are they four or 500% It's not because the money costs four or 500%, right? I mean, you can get a loan from a bank now even with high interest rates.12%, 13%, right? But the reason is because maybe five out of 10 people don't pay it back. So the five that do pay it back are paying for the five that don't pay it back. So that's why the interest rate is high. But if you can create a product that's customizable down to the individual you have a greater amount of people that pay you back.It's kind of like a self-fulfilling thing. You can continue to loan to more and more people so that your approval rates continue to be higher and higher and higher and satisfy more patients. And that's been kind of our goal from day one. We want people to pay back. So we, have developed unique offers for every individual.Michael: Mm-hmm. Can they customize also the down payment due at Jay: checkout? Yeah. Yeah. So they can, for instance, you can, um, Let's look at here. Let's say they wanna lower the $56 a month. Let's say it's still too high. Mm-hmm. You would just go click here and say, okay, I wanna pay 500. What? What? I just wanna make sure remember the 56 30?Mm-hmm. So let's say they wanna make a $500 down payment, right? Because they wanna lower the monthly payments. You click update and then magically what happens? It's $42 a month. So totally customizable, and a lot of people do that, and we want them to do what's most comfortable for 'em. I don't wanna dictate what's best for them.I, I don't know what they want, but they know what they want. So let's give them the option. when you go to the Starbucks drive-through, do they tell you what coffee to get? No. You know, you can get 10 different variety, 20 different, uh, variations of a macchiato. That's why they're successful.Michael: Yeah. Interesting. Jay. Okay. so a couple questions I have when it comes to the technology, because you said this is new, right? Disruptive technology, nobody's doing it in the industry or, no, I mean, Jay: every, their, their patient financing has been around.For 25 years. but historically, even today, it's very much FICO driven. So if your FCO is 6 81, you get the credit you need. If it's 6 79, you get decline. It's like a straight number. Right? And there's companies that provide those numbers. There's. You know, uh, vantage, and there's various, you know, uh, Experian, TransUnion, et cetera, to provide the number.So most of the companies historically just do that. And there's not really any technology there, right? That's mainly how banks are like old school patient financing companies that have been around since like 1990. That's what they do. But, but think about this example. let's take you and I, today.Our FCO scores are six 50, right? Both of us, like it looks like we're the same, right? But what if a year ago, yours was 600 and mine was 700, Who's the greater risk? We're not the same. Six 50 is not the same. You're a much better risk than I am because you're on your way up, you're trending. And I'm on my way down.So our offers might be a bit different and they should be a bit different. We can't be treated the same. So we look at thousands of data points. It all basically, and we're not getting any kind of secret information. This is, we're doing a soft data inquiry, right? So we're getting kind of condensed data.and then we take that data and we use it to model basically we measure it against our, our AI model. And then it spits out the information. Okay, approve, not approve. If we're gonna approve them, how much are we gonna approve them for? What's the a p r? you know, then again, what's the e fee, if there's a down payment, et cetera.So it's that uniqueness that enables us to up with an offer that could be very different than someone else. So typically, a lot of the folks that we're approving people aren't touching with a 10 foot pole. Why? Because historically, if you're measuring things by fico, it's just not real accurate for installment loans of 18 months or 24 months.Mm-hmm. So we have confidence that we're gonna get paid back. And in terms of our, you know, numbers, people do pay us back, at great rates. So that's, I think, the difference. It's. Everyone is a bit different in the world. every American is different. When they apply for credit, they're different. And you have to have a product that takes that into consideration.We're not like just a score, right? We're, we're made up of, of thousands of different, you know, uniqueness characteristics, whether you're, I'm not talking about finance, but just in general, we're all different. Mm-hmm. So you need to have kind of a scoring system, a mathematical model that takes that into, into consideration.Michael: now when it comes to, when it comes to this, I know you mentioned soft data, our data pools mm-hmm. And what's behind the soft Jay: data pool? So basically how it works is.These credit agencies basically charge money, right? To companies that would like to pull your data. Of course, it's with your authorization. So I, I don't know if you remember on, on the iPad there's clear authorization that says you, you know, agree to having your, uh, credit soft pulled. So basically it's like a condensed credit file.Mm-hmm. Okay. So, If you get that condensed credit file, that soft inquiry, it doesn't have any impact on your credit score, If you get a hard credit check, which by the way, nearly all the patient finance companies use, why do they use it? Because it has much more granular data, And they basically take the granular data, they feed it into their kind of limited model and, and they say approve or not.Our technology takes the condensed, takes the more limited data, and then we feed it into our proprietary model, and it gets us to an answer that's satisfactory such that we don't need the hard credit check. And oh, by the way, hard credit checks are terrible. Like, like if you're, you know, if you're buying a house or an apartment.it hurts you, it's questionable in terms of how much and and how long it's, it hurts you on in terms of your report. Mm-hmm. But it clearly hurts your credit for a period of time. So we avoid that. We avoid the friction in the office staff because of that. And again, they're regular people, just like the folks that are walking in.They don't wanna offer a product or service that's going to hurt their patients. Right. That's just not human nature. So it reduces the friction. So when they use, um, you know, when they're working with us, you know, some that working with, you know, with the iPad, they can be comfortable that it's only a soft inquiry.And so that helps us get a lot more utilization than, than the company that they used before. You know, we got to their office. Yeah. Does that makes sense? Michael: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of the times like. When, I remember when I was trying to build up my credit, like it was in the 600 s and I'm like, oh man, I, any little thing, hard inquiry.Oh yeah, you get outta there, right? Like, I didn't want that Jay: terrible Yeah. Kind of thing. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm like, I'm like paranoid. Like I, I have, you know, um, those free credit services and I look on the report because you, you wanna check it like you, you, or if you're in the process of buying a house or whatever, or a car, you, you don't want your hard credit check.But even if you're not, like in general, there's really no reason like, When I, I was telling a story when I got to, when I moved to LA and I went to the T-Mobile store, they took down my information and before they even asked me what package I wanted, they were like, oh, we need your social security number cuz we need to do a hard credit check.And I'm like, why? Why do you do a hard credit check when you don't even know what, what I want? Like what if I want prepaid? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm gonna, I would maybe pay you the cash. Now, that's not what I wanted, but they're like, no, we have to do a hard check. It's like, no, well you really don't. Just that they don't have the technology in place to kind of determine the credit worthiness of that customer.And we do. So that's why, it's a soft inquiry and we're, I believe, the only company that does it throughout in terms of the app, the, uh, approval process. And then when they actually take the loan. Still, no, our credit check. Wow. Michael: Okay. So I never thought about that, Jay. I always thought it was like a people problem instead of a technology problem when it came to like being approved.Jay: It's not, it's, it's, it's, I'll tell you, it's like a co it's a complex math problem, right? It's like this guy who has a six 10 fico, let's say has a job she has a job, they have money in their checking account, But based on historical, credit worthiness standards, They are not getting any credit card whatsoever, right?Because it's been told by them that it's not happening. But we look at it very differently. Like if it's a $2,000 installment loan and it's over 24 months, the question is, does this person have a hundred dollars? And they're checking account every month cuz we're pulling out of their checking account.And the answer is generally yes, but it goes against. All the kind of the credit, decisioning that's been going on since like 1950. I mean, I brought something here, which kind of cool. So you're, you're from the West coast. This is a credit card application. There's a store called Gimbals based in, I believe, Philadelphia.Open in 1880, close in like 1987. This is actually, we kind of see it here. This is actually a credit card application from 1967. Pristine condition. Okay. Yeah. So what's interesting about it is if you look at the question that's kind of small, prince, I'll read, if you look at the questions, the same questions of what's your income, do you rent versus own?Are you married versus single? this is 1967. So what have credit card companies and patient financing companies done? All they've done, this is the same 1967 application. They've just digitized it. They're asking the same questions. I guarantee you, if you go to an office that has another patient financing solution or you go to Target or you go somewhere else, they're going to ask you married versus single.What's your income rent versus zone? These are questions literally 60 years old, and they're still asking, this is basically what you see today is digitized. So it's, there's like a lack of innovation that has taken place that actually hasn't taken place, right? And, and specifically patient financing in 30 years.Literally nothing. Literally nothing. And so what we're doing is we're focusing on the technology and solving the math problem. And helping a heck of a lot more people get approved and get the dentistry they need. And that's why we're growing so rapidly. Gotcha. Michael: So then I like that part where you light bulb, I mean like it, it opened my eyes.It's true. It, we just put it on a computer and now we're kind of like presenting people and we don't really see the need to change until you kind of showed us the demo. I have a question. True. When it comes to the risk on this, let's just say, okay, six 10, right, credit score, I'm gonna pay you back. And then we do the sun bit thing and then we're like, okay, boom, I'm gonna pay 58 something.He pays the first one, then he kind of skips on the second one, third one, oh no, it's starting to go down, right? It doesn't look good. Who runs the The risk there? Jay: So. we do non-recourse loans, which means we take full risk. let's say you're, you're, you're at the dental office and you do a, a $2,000, uh, transaction for, I dunno, bridge, crown, et cetera.Two days later, we send those funds to the office, then we sit back and we wait for the patient to pay Huss if they don't pay for whatever reason. That's my mistake. You guys are sitting on the money within two business days and we will never claw back those funds. So we, we are taking the risk.And as you can imagine, that being said, you know, we have a very heavy duty data analytics, you know, risk fraud, et cetera, group that manages this risk. And obviously there's a lot of, Techniques that we use in the process to kind of minimize this. But we also have a huge collection group. So we have a customer, uh, care center, 160 people in Las Vegas.Our employees, we manage it top to bottom and we call it like collections with kindness. So it's really, really important for us. To maintain those relationships because we have al also customers that are fixing their cars, uh, getting a new set of tires, new batteries, and those same cu customers are our dental customers as well.So there's a lot of, cross vertical, uh, customers. We have even more when you think about it. Remember, we're not, we're not financing powerboats, right? It's not like someone goes and says, I'm gonna buy a $30,000 powerboat and then I'm not gonna pay it. Right? These payments on average could be 70, 80, 90, a hundred bucks a month.So generally when that's the case, plus the process is good. It's very clear they, you know, we only work with, you know, great partners. they may be late by a day or two, so we'll call them up and say, Hey, what's going on Very nicely. And generally no one wants to ruin their credit for 70, 80, 90 bucks.Mm-hmm. A month. Now, if it's a $30,000 power boat, That's kind of a different calculus, right? You may want to say, I want the powerboat and I don't wanna pay for it. Right? And it kind says okay, kind of. I understand kind of the logic there. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. But in dentistry and auto and the other verticals we're in, typically it's, it's high frequency, lower dollar, monthly payments, and generally people are paying them uhhuh.Michael: That makes a lot of sense. So then, Into practice. Let's just say somebody's listening and they're like, oh, cool. Sun bit. Right? I'm gonna check 'em out. I'm gonna try it. But they already have like Care, credit, lending Club, Verity, right? All these other ones. Is this just another add-on? Like do we just add it on?Or what do you recommend? Do we take others? Would it even make sense to have other ones on anymore? Cause we have some bit. Jay: Yeah. It wouldn't because we, we like to say we are the waterfall because we're approving folks from 500. So every single patient that has a 500 FICO and higher. We're approving. So again, it's 85 to 87% generally.So that's higher than all those solutions combined. Right. Even if you kind of stack 'em up. Mm-hmm. Um, so when we go to an office, we believe, and I think it's been proven by, you know, we've got 9,000, uh, locations in dentistry that we believe we have the best. Financing product out there for patients, bar none.the process is better. The approvals are better. So if an office has multiple products, well, here's a question. I mean, if they have multiple products, why do they have multiple products? Right? It's like, it's the old saying, like, if you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterbacks, right? They have, they have four products.Cause they had one, right? And then they had two didn't work, then they had three. It didn't work and they had four. They use us and generally they eliminate everything. that they typically use in the results are better because we're eliminating a lot of friction. The office staff loves the tool we have.we have a appreciation program for the offices as well. We have a Sun Beast program, which, you know, they can get, you know, uh, for just doing the regular course of their work. They can get, you know, gift cards, et cetera. Uh, we also do some fun stuff as well, but in, in general, we are the primary financing provider of all the offices that we're in.Michael: Gotcha. Sun Beast is the appreciation program. Correct, correct. Oh, okay. And that's with like the Jay: practices? Correct. So we have, right. So if you think about it, you know, we're, we, we've got right now 40, I, I wanna say 50,000 sun beasts because we have an application and, and then when we train an office, they download the application and then we, you know, send them cool things like they're just different promotions and things like that.They can learn that we have like a, you know, a sun bit tip of the week, things like that. We want to. Train appropriately so that the office team members are really, really comfortable. We also wanna make it fun. Like we don't wanna be, you know, the boring finance company. Like we wanna be the guys that are helping people doing it the right way, not charging any crazy fees or anything like that.We don't do any kind of, you know, deferred interest. we think we can be the good guys, be profitable, and, Help a lot of patients get the treatment that they need. Gotcha. Michael: What are the, what are Jay: the fees? So the fees in, in general, they're risk based. I won't go over like in detail, but in general, the fees are pretty much the same, very, very similar on a blended basis as what they're paying today.The difference is they're gonna get double the amount of approvals and. They're gonna have more people apply. So it's very common that they see our practices and our groups and our DSOs. We've got, you know, large groups, mid-size groups, single location groups. Um, it's very common that we see three x four x, five x, the amount of production with Sun Bit.Then whatever they're using today, because again, it's so easy in the high approvals, but the cost is basically about the same as what they're paying today. Michael: Gotcha. Yeah. And I noticed like it's never, that's never really the issue when it comes to like, uh, presenting or when it comes to accepting this, right?Like let's just say, yeah, I'll take some bit, right? Or I'll take another third party. What's the issue is more like the patient's accepting it, right? And the one barrier is like, oh my gosh, you're not approved. You can't, even if you wanted to accept that, you can't. Right. So that's a barrier lifted with some bit, both.In your experience, what's the best way we could present this to a patient? Jay: It's a great, that's a great question. That's a great question. It's something that we, we talk about quite a bit in our training. So what we like to say is, Have the iPad, do the talking, right?Show them the product, say, hey, you know, when you go through the treatment plan, you know, you do the comprehensive oral exam, you do the treatment plan, you're sitting down with the tc and the TC generally says, or the office manager says, Hey, You know, it's $2,500, but you don't have to pay everything today.Let me get you qualified. Takes 30 seconds. No hard credit check again. Cuz what happens is it's such a pressurized experience and it's happened to me too. Like even like prior, prior to Sunbelt, family member needed some significant dental work. It was like seven, $8,000. And you're like, you gasp. You're like, oh, man, that's like crazy, right?Mm-hmm. It's not cheap. It's, it's not getting cheaper. It's getting much more expensive. So what happens is the person goes with, you know, sits down with the tc, they hear that number. All of a sudden there's like a wall, right? There's a wall that's built. It's panic. You're, you don't know what to do on one hand, you need to get the work done.On the other hand, it's a crap load of money. And you're like, what do I do here? And you've stopped paying attention to whatever that other person is saying because all you're thinking about is the, the little thoughts in your head, like, how am I gonna pay for this, right? Mm-hmm. And again, it doesn't matter if you're making 300,000 a year, a hundred thousand a year, 50,000, it doesn't matter.It's a lot of money, right? No one budgets for this. So when the TC can put the patient at ease and say, Hey, I know this might be a, a large sum, but hey, you don't have to pay for everything Today. We have a patient financing solution that approves, 85, 80 7%, let me walk you through. It takes 30 seconds, no hard credit check.And then usually what happens is there's like a sigh of relief. The wall gets removed, there's a bit more openness, right? It's, it is very much like human psychology or, and it's, and that's what I've kind of, it's, it's very interesting and. The wall gets, uh, broken down and the patient is able to communicate clearly with the TC and the TC with the patient.And once they do, they show the demo or they show the the iPad. It's a very easy, simple, understandable process. And, and that's generally the best way to do it. just want to kind of let the iPad do the talking. Yeah, I like that. And present it. But you gotta, you gotta present it like it doesn't, we can't approve loans.If the iPad isn't presented right or if, yeah, you have to basically understand that hey, 40 to 50% of patients that walk in the door have less than a thousand dollars in their checking account, right? Mm-hmm. And if you wanna truly help patients, right? This is a huge impediment to case acceptance, right?Like money. So if you can help them, then help them with this. You can get them more treatment, which is I think, the goal of everyone that's working in the office. Including the, the Michael: dentist. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It is the goal. I mean, but that's the thing we have to remember, like to present it right. Um, all the time to the patient.Yeah. But I like what you said, how, how it's human psychology. It's true. Even if get approved, cuz for example, let's just say you have the cash and you don't get approved. Sure. You, you're, you're in a negative flow now, right? You're like, of course. Of course. I didn't get approved. That's what I thought.You know what? I'll, I'll, let me talk, talk to my husband, my wife about it. You know what I mean? I'll get back to you, blah, blah, blah. But when you're approved and you're like, oh, I never get approved. I'm approved. Jay: Exactly. Wow. Look, Michael, I've seen people cry. Mm-hmm. Tears of joy when they get approved.I've seen it multiple times. I've gotten hugs before and like, it's, it's very weird. Like it's, it's, it's a beautiful thing, but it's very strange for it to happen because it's so infrequent. But you understand, We're not doing brain surgery here. Let me just put that out in front.But we are helping people with their oral health, which, which impacts the rest of their body, And if we can help people, Full spectrum of folks that normally can't get helped. It's amazing. And you're right there. There's two sets of what happens here. They get approved and they generally haven't gotten approved before.In some cases, they're super happy, but the alternative is in the past, when they get declined from other providers, they do not come back to the office. You know, it's like the Terminator when he says like, I'll be back. Yeah. He never comes back to the coffee shop at the end. And you remember he, he never comes back.Mm-hmm. Right. So it's, it's kind of a gr it's, it's really a gratifying thing that you wanna help these folks, and this is a great tool for case acceptance, you know, increasing the production of the office and helping patients get the treatment that they need. Michael: By any chance, Jay, do you have any like, stats on how this has improved, like any specific practices, you know what I mean?Of course. Jay: Yeah. I mean, we have, we have lots of case studies. I mean, we've, we've seen cases of, you know, ebitda, Significant ebitda, uh, improvements, significant production case acceptance. We've seen sometimes 30, 40%, uh, increases. significant. Um, because again, if you're offering something that approves nearly everyone, you're going to get great results, right?Because keep in mind, from the office perspective, if you offer and someone gets declined, just like the patient won't come back, the office staff. Won't offer it anymore. So that's what's typically happened. So there's, you know, there's, there, there, you know, a large competitor out there that's been around forever, but a lot of people don't use it because they have, been declined.You know, the office has declined folks, so they just stop offering it. But, so even though they've stopped offering it, that doesn't mean that the patients walking in the door don't have needs. Right. They of course have needs, you're just not offering it to them. Michael: Interesting, interesting. Okay, so Where can we reach out to you if we have any questions or concerns? Sure. Jay: So, um, the best way is, uh, sun.com, slash dental. can also email me. So I manage the dental practice at sun j y sun.com and happy to, help anyone that, whether it's, again, whether it's a single practice, you know, single practitioner, Multiunit group or large d s o we work with, um, all of them.again, we wanna help people. We wanna do it the right way. And, and really that's why we're, we're growing at the rate that, that we are. Michael: Nice. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to Jay and Jay. Thank you for being with us.It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Great. Thank you Jay: very much, Michael. Appreciate being on.‍‍

(If you DO want to work with Crimson Media Group, be sure to mention this podcast/ episode!)Reach out to Crimson Media Group here: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/crimsonmediafree/Shane always gives all our listeners a: Free Marketing Analysis (just mention our podcast name)‍‍Hey guys, welcome back to our Monday Morning Marketing series! Today, Shane Simmons and I are lunging into the untapped potential of your online presence. In this episode, we explore the crucial importance of tracking where your patients are coming from, and the nuts and bolts of how to do it! Getting well versed in your patient traffic flow will help you to make informed decisions to optimize your digital marketing efforts. Nobody likes to question whether or not their website is actually doing anything, right? Well, let's discover how we can make yours a valuable tool for growth, guiding you towards a thriving practice in the digital age!‍Step into my conversation with Shane Simmons this week, and we'll learn the vital intricacies of websites together!‍You can reach out to Shane Simmons here:Website: https://www.crimsonmediagroup.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/crimsonmediamarketing/‍Other Mentions and Links:Google AnalyticsSite Map LookupSwellInstalling Conversions with Google Analytics VideoGoogle Tag Manager‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Shane. So talk to us about websites. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help us actually attract new patients through Shane: websites? Yeah, Michael, I mean, our website, I think this is too many times. We look of it and we think of it as just kind of like a digital billboard for the practice, and we know it's there.It's a necessity, but. A lot of practices we talk with don't really know what they're getting from their website or how patients are finding them. And so that's really what I wanna focus on today and, and the first piece of advice, and probably the most critical piece of advice that I would give anyone when they're reviewing their website or building a website for their practice is, Make sure that you have the proper tracking set up and in place.And what I mean by that is there are things that you can set up in Google Analytics and uh, Google Tag Manager for anybody who's heard of that. Where if somebody fills out a form on the website, you can actually go into your Google Analytics account and you can set up what are called conversions, where Google will show you, you know, how many form submissions you had on your site in the last.30 days where those form submissions actually came from. So what was the first touchpoint? Did they go, uh, to a Google organic search and that's how they got to the site and filled out a form. Did they come from a Facebook ad? Did they come from an insurance referral? You can start collecting that data.So each and every month, like what we do at our agency is we review that data with our clients and say, you know, hey, we had 20. You know, form submissions from Google Organic. We had 15 from Facebook ads, 10 from Google Ads, so on and so forth. And so that's the first thing is make sure that you have conversion tracking set up so you know that your website is doing what it's supposed to be doing.And then if it's not, then that's when you can go in and start to make some changes in corrections. So that's number one. The second part about the tracking is, uh, call tracking. And so I make, tell everybody you have to have call tracking on your website, so you know, again, where are your patients coming from?Are they coming from Google? Are they coming from a referral or insurance, whatever the case is. Have some form of call tracking set up. That way you know where those patients are coming from and the, and the blowback that sometimes very few, but some people will give us on that is, well, if I change the number on my website to a call tracking number, I.Is that going to throw off my patients? And the answer to that question is we have dozens and dozens of accounts who have call tracking set up, and we have not heard one message about somebody saying, this isn't your phone number, or you had the wrong phone number on your site. Because in the world we live in on our mobile phones, people just click that call button and that's it.Right? They're, they're not memorizing their dentist's phone number anymore, so don't worry about that. It's imperative that you know where your. patient base is coming from. So that's number one is, is call tracking and form tracking on the site. Michael. Um, the second thing that I'll go into is your site structure and making sure that your structure is set up properly.So the way that I kind of put this in dental terms is if you were going to place an implant, uh, you had the tooth extracted and all of this, and you're ready to place that implant. You'd wanna make sure that the bone structure is there and is healthy for an implant. Same thing goes for your website. You need to make sure that the structure of that site is correct before you start sending traffic to it, doing SEO and all of these different things.And so, What site structure boils down to, in nerdy terms, is making sure that you have one H one header on your website. You can Google this, it'll, it's really clear, but it's basically the first biggest heading on your site. That's your H one header, and that's the most important header on the site because that tells Google what the page is about.Then under that H one header, like for your subsections on a page, Those would be your, what you call H two headings. And then you have H three. So it's like a bullet point system of prominence down to, you know, maybe the, the least prominent on the page. You need to make sure that that's set up correctly.Because if you have multiple H one headers on a site, which we've seen in many dental, uh, practice sites before, or, you know, uh, that structure is, is all over the place. It confuses Google at the end of the day, and anything that confuses Google is going to hurt your presence online. So make sure that you have the proper site settings, uh, set up.You can do a site map lookup. Um, it's a free tool online that you can use and see that you have that, uh, set up properly. And then the third thing that I'll touch on here, Michael, before we kind of open it up for questions for you is, you may wanna look into having a web chat on your site. And, and this is something that.Uh, we really like using with, um, some of the different vendors that, that we work with to have a web chat put on there. That way your team can get notified anytime. Somebody may have a quick question on there. Maybe they wanna know if you're a network with their insurance, whatever the case is. It's all about convenience for the patient at the end of the day.That's why we love having web chat, online scheduling, all of these tools where thinking about, you know, if you were the patient, what would be the most convenient way? For them to get an appointment, at your practice. And that's really what you need to do is put yourself in the, in the shoes of the patient.And if you do that, you have, you'll form, um, a web form chat on your site. If you have online scheduling on your site, you have that hierarchy set up properly, like we talked about in that site structure, and you have that call tracking and form tracking set in place. You're gonna notice a big difference in how your website is actually generating patients for you, rather than just feeling like your site's there just to be there.Michael: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. So these are three really, really key, uh, factors important. One thing I wanna rewind back on is where you talk about proper tracking needs to be set up in place. How do we even get started with this? So if you could, I guess, like. Walk us step by step. We're on Google Analytics now. We, we set it up or I'm pretty sure that's a lot of people have it set up or they ask their agency to, to see it.Now how do we kind of look into it? Shane: Yeah, so once you have Google Analytics installed on your site, which everybody listening to this should have Google Analytics on their site. It's a free tool and it's, it's a great tool to use to give you insights. Once you have Google Analytics set on your site, um, that's when you'll want to go to something that's called Google Tag Manager.And so, uh, Google Tag Manager basically allows you to put a snippet of code on your website. On certain areas where conversions would happen. So if somebody were to fill out a form on the site, once they fill out that form, Ideally they should go to what we call a thank you page, where a screen loads and it says, you know, thank you for filling out the form.We'll be contacting you soon. And on that thank you page within Google Tag Manager, you can copy and paste a piece of code that basically tells Google if somebody sees this page. They have filled out a form on the website, and that's a conversion. And what Google does is it installs cookies on that person's browser so it knows where that person came from, whether it was from a Google search or from Facebook or Instagram, whatever the case is, they know that.So then it's gonna give you that data back. That said, this form submission. Was through, uh, you know, a Google search. So that's the first thing and is in Google Tag Manager. The second thing that you can do, and I I think this is really underutilized in Google Tag Manager, is you could actually, uh, put uh, like a tag on a button on your page, um, and then take appropriate actions from there.So what I mean by that is, let's see, we have a video on the homepage of your site and you wanna track how many people watch that video. who interacted with it, these type of things. You can actually, within Google Tag Manager, just put a piece of code on that button where people click to watch the video, and it will give you direct feedback of, this is how many people in the last 30 days, watch the video, here's where they came from.And then what you can do is then use that to retarget them on Facebook or Instagram maybe, where if they saw your video on your page, you can then start to put, you know, patient reviews in front of them and things like that. So, There's so many things that you can do in Google Tag Manager, obviously, you know, our agency, uh, helps practices with that and we set that all up for all of our clients.But if you're, somebody who wants to try to do that on their own, um, go to YouTube, type in, um, installing conversions with Google Analytics or Google Tag Manager, and there are step-by-step, you know, walkthrough videos there. If you have some experience in, uh, backend web development, um, you may be able to do that yourself.Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So where do you recommend we put these Google tags? So you said specific conversion pages. So if you're making a website or somebody's looking at their website and they're like, man, I don't even know. I just asked my agency and they give me a report, or they tell me this, but I don't even know where would you recommend you put these tags on there?Shane: Yeah, great question. So first off, make sure that you've tagged any, if, if there's form submissions happening on that site or that landing page, make sure that you're tagging those form submissions and that's going to a thank you page. That way you, you know, that's the, the lowest hanging group. The easiest thing to tag right there, a new lead is anybody that fills out a web form.That's number one. Um, if you have online scheduling, which as we know, a lot of practices do have that now. You can tag the button there. in the online scheduling, so you can see how many people actually clicked to schedule online. We would recommend tagging that. We also tag anytime someone has clicked on the phone number on the site.Even though we have that call tracking in place, we still like to know how many people, actually clicked the number on the site and where they clicked it at. And then the fourth part there is if you have any video content on the site. Tag that as well, so you know how many people are actually watching those videos and engaging with it.Um, if anybody, because if you spend thousands of dollars to maybe get, you know, videos done and nobody's watching them, you're not really using that investment to your advantage. Maybe that video needs to be placed somewhere else on the site, or maybe it's not clear. Maybe there's like a small play button and it's not clear to the person that that's a video.So all of that data will allow you to see how can we get this video in front of people easily where they know, you know, it's a video that they should watch when they come to our site. And you can start to track that. So those are the areas, the thank you page or contact us page. Um, once they've filled out a form, online scheduling button, if they've clicked that phone number, tag your phone number and any video content that you may have on a webpage, those are four right there that if you start tagging those, it's gonna give you a great amount of feedback.Michael: Gotcha. And so if we ask our, let's just say our marketing agency or company, Hey, let me see the numbers for this, right? What are we looking for when it comes to like, oh man, nobody's filled out web forms. Or like, there hasn't been that many people clicking on phone numbers or onsite, or they don't even provide that.What are we looking for to ask when it comes to this particular question with analytics? Shane: Yep. Yeah. So the first thing you wanna look at is for any calls that we've had to the practice, um, you'd want to take a look at those calls. Where do those calls come from in your online marketing? So you'd like to, you know, get a report so you can see Google Organic calls versus, you know, if you're running Google Ads or Facebook ads, how do those calls break down?So that would be the first thing. Um, second thing that you would want to ask for is, For any of our contact form submissions on the site or online scheduling, what are the analytics like as far as where patients are coming from when they're filling out that information. So that would be, uh, an important aspect there because I.If you see that you're getting, you know, 80% of your form submissions are coming from referrals or existing patients, and you're spending thousands of dollars on online ads and you're not seeing, you know, very many conversions, then that's, you know, a red flag to know, okay, maybe we need to shift our focus or the campaign, whatever the case is there.So knowing where those, um, form submissions, contact form submissions. Actually came from is a great, you know, insight to ask your agency if you're working with someone. And then the easiest way is just be able to look at the site and say, okay, I see how many visitors we had that came to the site. I see how long, you know, the average person spent on the site, all of this data, but.What you really wanna look for is where's the acquisition, where are they coming from? And they should be able to provide you a report where you can see, where your patients are actually coming from, um, in the practice. And, and the rule that we have at Crimson Media is ideally if you're, you know, you want Google Organic to be your number one source of new patient traffic.Then any sort of digital ads you're running. And then third would be, um, referrals or existing patients who visit the site directly. That's kind of the hierarchy that we like to see, um, as far as where patients come from. Michael: Gotcha. That's a good rule, man. Okay. And then when it came to web chat on our site, which one would you recommend where you're like, we've seen fantastic results from this, and if you can let us know, which one would you say like, there's lots of kinks to Shane: work out.Yeah, we've, I mean we've seen a lot of them. Um, I would say our go-to and favorite one to use is through Swell. Um, so if you use swell for your online reviews, which is where most of our clients, we use them as well, full transparency there. but they have a, a web chat as well, and a lot of people don't really know that, I don't think.Mm-hmm. And so, We've had a lot of success with swells, web chat, um, very easy to install for your agency, and, uh, has some great prompts and things in there that you can build in. And I think it's just overall the smoothest, interaction for the patient too. Some of these web chats out there that I've tested and demoed have been just a little.Glitchy, uh, and they just aren't very user-friendly, whereas the one that we've used was swell. It's just very user-friendly, it's clean looking, and we've had a lot of success with, with those, but there are so many out there you can research and see what one is best for you. But that's been the, the one that's been most successful for us.Awesome. Michael: Shane, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find 'em on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly? Shane: Yeah, they can, as you mentioned, dental marketer Facebook group, we're always hanging out in there, but you can also go to our website, crimson media group.com.If you come in, if you book a, you know, a free marketing strategy, um, call with me. Uh, let me know that you came from the dental marketer, Michael, and, uh, we'll hook you up with a special surprise. Yeah, that's Michael: a cool thing. Everybody listening gets a very comprehensive strategy. When you book it with Crimson Media Group.So guys, go ahead and do that. It's gonna be in the show notes below. And Shane, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thanks, Michael.‍

Today we're going to introduce a game changer in the dental practice management software world...‍‍This is an innovative, all-in-one, cloud-based practice management software, and it offers an array of powerful features that are custom built for dentists by dentists ready to revolutionize the way you work. ‍If you are a start-up and decide to sign up with Oryx, they will NOT charge you a single dime, until you reached 200 active patients!⁠⁠They are partnering up with all startup practice owners and making sure you succeed, fast!⁠⁠ Click this link to schedule a FREE personalized demo and to see more on their exclusive deal!⁠‍‍Guest: Rania SalehBusiness Name: Oryx Dental SoftwareCheck out Rania's Media:Website: https://www.oryxdentalsoftware.com/Email: hello@oryxdentalsoftware.com‍Other Mentions and Links:InvisalignKois CenterThe Making OfOrange is the New BlackZoomPearlDr. Sana Yusuf‍The Happiness Advantage - Shawn Achor‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Do your best to educate patients, and then let them decide whether or not to move forward with treatment. This will give patients a more inviting atmosphere!Your brand reputation starts before patients even enter your practice. Be sure your forms and online presence is as updated and clean as your practice!Sometimes a visual representation of risk areas is just what patients need to understand the treatment plan.Promoting patients with NO dental problems is a great way to attract new patients!Don't focus on just the negative areas in a patient's mouth, be sure to show them what is looking great too!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Ranya. How's it going? Doing great. Thank you. That's wonderful. I spoke with you and I met you in the first making of Demo Startup retreat, and you gave one of the best speeches there, not because of like, you know, oryx obviously it's wonderful and it's great and everything like that.But because you touched a lot of our hearts, my heart, my wife's heart, everybody's heart, right? And I kind of wanted to backtrack a little bit and tell us a little bit about your past from that point on your present. How'd you get to where you are today? Rania: So I started as a general dentist. Uh, practicing right outside of Washington, DC and I was an associate for a couple of years, then decided to have my own practice, and that worked well for me.So it grew into a larger practice, multiple locations. I was doing really well. I was really happy, and I got pregnant with twins, had to be on bed dressed, and my practice went downhill very quick. and I couldn't understand why that was happening. And I started looking into our systems and into what the associates are doing, and it was all the same.So the same associates, the same front desk, the same marketing. Uh, how did we go from doing so well to doing so poorly? And I realized that we weren't implementing the systems the same way we were when I was in the practice. And I realized that a lot of the system were just in my head. I wasn't translating that to everyone.Um, and I started creating a little system just to, uh, put my practice back on track. Um, and I had gone through the Coy Center, so I loved John's systematic approach. I loved how you can look at the patient, gather some data, and you always come up to the same diagnosis. Started showing it to other people. They liked it, and this is how Orx was Michael: created. Nice. So you are the one who created it cuz of the pain points that you were experiencing? Yeah, Rania: in a way with a large group behind me, but Gotcha, gotcha. Michael: If we rewind a little bit, Rania, um, talk to me about your process of becoming a dentist.Rania: So, um, my parents are dentists, so it was kind of an easy choice. Uh, my brother is an orthodontist, my sister is a pediatric dentist, so they always, my parents always pushed us towards dentistry. Like it's the best profession. it was a bit of a no-brainer for me to go to go Michael: into dentistry.And so you came into dentistry and then from that point on, you always thought to yourself, I'm gonna own my own practice. Or how did that come up? Um, Rania: yeah, I dunno. No. I started as an associate not really knowing what I was doing. And, uh, I went to a very insurance heavy practice. and I didn't like the systems.I didn't like how fast paced, extremely fast paced it was. Um, I didn't agree with some, some of the treatment protocols that we had, but I was in a way doing my job. Mm-hmm. Uh, And that was like maybe 2007 when the economy was collapsing, everything was going so bad and we didn't have access to podcasts, like cures to the dental startup, to all that information about opening a practice.And of course, the owner of the practice I was at was always discouraging me. Like, it's a lot of money. I didn't know you could take a loan from the bank. Mm-hmm. Like we didn't have access to all that information, so I was always discouraged to, to open my own practice. Um, but then when I started going to the coy center and I'm like, I want to implement a different level of care, I found it was really, really hard to do if and to change systems if you are doing it in someone else's practice.and this is when I decided like, That's it. I'm opening a startup and I don't know how Yeah. Michael: To any of it. Were you looking for immediately a startup, like from the ground up or were you looking for an acquisition? Rania: I looked for an acquisition a little like for a short, wide, um, and I didn't find any good fit.there weren't that many in the area where I was like, right outside of Washington, DC I didn't want to drive too far. so I'm like, okay, I'll just do a startup and I'll do it the way I want. And everything I looked at was like, now you see all these amazing startups, super modern, like on the grade decor.But when I did my office and looking at offices, they were very ugly. And I couldn't picture my, I mean, it's silly like now if I'm evaluating a practice, I, I would look at numbers, I would look at product, I would look at a lot of different things. But back then I was just looking, oh, I, I really hate this space.Michael: so you were looking more at the outside of it, the interior design, things like that. Yeah. I was thinking Rania: like, if I want to create that vision for a practice, if I want my. Patients to have this amazing experience, it has to be done in a really nice space. Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. And then, so fast forward a little bit more.You mentioned you started running your dental practice and was it around the time where you're like, okay, my practice is going down, was when you gave birth to your twins? Rania: No, so, so I started the practice and, um, I'll backtrack a bit. Uh, as I said, like I had the vision for the practice. So a friend who's an architect, had also a vision of how a practice should be, and they had a really amazing location.Uh, we were featured in architecture and magazines. Google Ads were not very popular at the time, so we started, so Google ads, we got so busy, so quick, like we were, uh, breaking even by the second month or third month we were profitable. Very early on, we hit a million on the first year, we were doing really well and this is when my brother came and started doing one day of Ortho with me.That turned into several days of, uh, a month, and then my, we had, um, a periodontist come and join us, uh, my sister-in-law. Mm-hmm. And then we had, uh, and the practice started growing into having associates. Then I started looking at another location. and after that I got pregnant. I had to be on bed dressed, and this is when the office started losing a lot of money.Okay. It was not a hundred thousand alone that we were losing. Michael: Wow. Why? What was going on? Where it was specifically losing? So, Rania: um, the way we had the system in our practices, I was doing a lot of the exams and treatment planning. and then the patients would see different providers for the treatment. So they would see some of my associates fulfilling.So, so I was in way screening the patient. Mm-hmm. if someone needed ortho first and then some Pero treatment and then maybe, A couple of implants, if it was a cosmetic case and we're, we're going through all of that, I would coordinate the whole case and they were going through the department.and if they were fillings and, uh, some smaller treatments, some of the, uh, younger associates were doing, if they were more complex treatment, it was the more senior associates doing that. So, so we had all of this organized and I fear that when I wasn't in the practice, that piece went missing. So I was in a way the project manager.Yeah. Yeah. and when that went missing, uh, we were looking at patients and new patients were coming in and it, and they were just seen in hygiene and see you in six months, were gonna watch this, this, and that, and that's it. So people were not, presented with a comprehensive vision for their treatment and for their health.So, I think that was the biggest difference. Michael: Gotcha. How long did that last For? A few Rania: months. and then I started asking my associates to come to the hospital. So half my bedrest was in a hospital bed. Really Michael: horrible. So it was, I'm sorry, you were in bed rest for how long? The whole Rania: pregnancy. Oh wow. Like on week 12, I think I went on bed dress until I delivered.Michael: Really? Yeah, it was, uh, man, Ryan, that's pretty tough. Like that's a lot. You know what I mean? Like, uh, yeah. That, and then on top of, how much were you stressing out when you saw these numbers? Rania: Lot. You know, at the time I was watching Oranges, the New Black, and I was thinking to myself like, Jane is easier. At least you socialize with other people Michael: is easier.Rania: You know, you're not worried about the practice. Choose and bed dress. Maybe Jane. Michael: Oh. it's funny how our mind thinks though, when you're thinking that, you're like, my gosh, it's going down. And so you're stressing out about that. You're stressing out about, I mean, your, your pregnancy. how are you guys and your husband and everybody, how's like the family handling everything in this situation?Especially since you're, you know, orthos your family too and everything like that. Rania: So like everyone was trying to help anyway they could. Uh, Because we did well early on I had some resources in the bank, but like seeing this depleted month after month was really stressful. And we were try, like I would speak to the office manager and she's like, I.Our numbers are good. We're still getting the same, uh, amount of new patients. We're still very booked. And we s like I started looking at every piece of the puzzle, where aren't we doing well? And then I started looking at the treatment plan. So this is when I started inviting the associates. Let's review every chart and I would go through it systematically the way I learned at the COI Center.So let's look at the four different areas your gums. Uh, your, teeth hugged, bite, jaw, joint, and smile. And I would give a patient a summary of their health in the four different categories. And this is where it sparks ideas for the patient. Where if I would say a patient might not be thinking about Invisalign, I might say something like, uh, You mentioned that you are happy with your smile.I see a little bit of crowding, but since you're happy, we're good with that. And they might think about it and say, oh, you know, this bothers me a bit. Mm-hmm. Can it be done quickly, and this is where the Invisalign conversation comes, or I. Sometimes patients might have these very large restorations that they're not very concerned about, but maybe they're grinding also, or they have some bite issues.So I would look at that and I would say, um, you have these structurally compromised teeth, because of these large restorations. It could be a concern because of your grinding or because of this. So that puts you into a higher risk, and now it's up to them if they want to do it or not. And most of them would do it.So this was the type of conversations I was having with the patients that were my associates were not having, and this is going through the very systematic exam. and this was basically the basis of orex is I took the co exam. There is very systematic, very standardized, not like if you examine your patients that way, if you present to them the findings in these four different areas, it becomes.A lot easier for them to say yes, to your treatment. And it becomes, and they become more aware of their health. in a way you're educating the patient, uh, and you're giving them the power to make more informed decisions. So I told you about this. Now it's up to you. Do you want to. Replace these structurally compromised, fillings, um, with crowns or onlays, or do you wanna wait and see?Mm-hmm. It's your decision, but I'm giving you all the information that I can to make better decisions about your health, but ultimately it's up to you. I think this is the reason my practice true, and I realize that a lot of dentists don't go about mm-hmm. Treating their patients that way. and this is what Orex does, is it basically helps dentists do a very systematic examination in seven minutes and it generates a report for the patient.So everything I was telling the patient is in one report. That they can go think about review. yeah, like one thing that we do is we always examine four problems and we never reward hun. And even for very healthy patients, it's good to t them, like your gums and bones are exactly where we want them to be.At your age. Your teeth are doing great. we don't have any issues. You had two feelings in the past and we don't see any other issues. Your python judgment are great. You're happy with your smile, so we're really proud of this and we find that these are the people that take this report and put it on social media and share it with everyone.And these grow the practice more than the patients with a lot of problems. Because at first I would print that report and hand it to patients that had a lot of issues thinking they need to go review it, process it, understand what's going on to say yes to treatment. realized that the promoters are the one that got like the A plus.Michael: Great. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Okay, so then. When you were teaching this to your associates, could they have just gone to the COI Center and learned it on their own? That way you didn't have to stress out so much? Rania: Yeah, I mean the, the COI Center is amazing and it's a long journey. but even John would tell you the issue he was having with a lot of the students coming through the co center is, it's a lot of information that you get and it's.And a lot of paperwork that people go to the practice and go and fall back into their own habits. It's a lot easy. Like you go, you, you learn something and you are so excited about it, and you're like, Monday morning we're gonna start inventing this. And Monday morning you have this emergency coming in and you have this unhappy patient and this insurance that got rejected and now this person wrote a bad review and mm-hmm.You're dealing with all of this and Tuesday is the same and. That's it. Yeah. Okay. By next week you forgot everything and you forgot that you wanted to implement this. Um, that's true. Yeah. So having it in your software where you don't have to think about it almost forces you to be more organized and more systematic.Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was speaking with Dr. Sauna Yusif. Um, and she tells me her favorite thing about orex among many other things. But is the, the wheel, the new patient wheel, and I'm assuming that's what this is, right? Yeah. Is where like they get the comprehen and then they're able to actually take it home or see it and say like, okay, look, this is everything going great where I need improvement.You know what I mean? They get their whole visual of it. Is that what that is? Rania: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's a personalized risk assessment. So patients started calling in the wheel. So, so that became the name. And, uh, we would get patients calling the office and saying, I want the exam. That gives me the wheel, because like patients, and especially the happy ones that have, it's all green, as I said, would, would take it to the office and show, show patient, uh, show their coworkers.Look, I got, I was just at the dentist and look at this and it's, it's a really nice presentation and it, we found that printing it out adds more value because patients are happy about it. We put it in a really nice folder. They take it, they show it to other, uh, to coworkers, to friends, to family members.And people are, how come my dentist never gives me this? and they would just, call and ask about it. Yeah, Michael: it's, it's almost the same concept that you were, that John was talking about, right? Like, you, we tell you all this information, you're excited, and then life happens, right? So same thing, kind of like you tell the patient all this information, maybe they're thinking about it, they get home, kids got hurt, they're in trouble, they gotta pick 'em up at school, h, husband, wife, all these things, right?Work. And they tend to forget about it. But if they have that thing there, you know what I mean with them, and super simple and easy for them to read and, and share. It's better. It's better. It's on top of mine for sure. For Rania: sure. And a lot of times they're sitting in your office and they're not truly listening.Mm-hmm. Like, I wanna get outta you. Mm-hmm. Like, just go on with it. And they go home and, and I've had so many patients that said, okay, okay, okay. And then they go home and they're looking like, uh, is scaling and truth planting scam? Yeah. And because by now we're telling them this is what you need, but now they have this information and they're reviewing that information, so.it's really a good way, but also, like, one thing that we don't really think about is the medical legal perspective. anything you say to the p anything that is not documented does not exist. Mm-hmm. And this is doing all the documentation for you. So you do your exam, we auto generate your progress note.We also auto generate that that goes to the patient. So that's almost their consent form. We also have consent forms in this system. But, but in a way, we told you that you needed that restoration and you decided not to do it. We told you you have an infection, you didn't come back for the treatment. so it's all documented.Michael: Gotcha. So then the new patient visit, how long does that normally take with this for you? Rania: So we time dentists doing the exam seven to 10 minutes. Michael: So it's really like, Rania: it's way more comprehensive, but it's very systematic and the exam is, would expand and collapse the way you need it. So if you say, uh, The patient has, um, jaw problems.The, uh, the T M J exam is gonna expand, but if the patient answered no to, to all the jaw questions, and you have like no problems, it's gonna collapse. So, and this is how you want it to be, to go quick on patients that have no issues, but to really dig deeper with patients that have more issues. Michael: Yeah.Okay. So that's really good. So then rewind a little bit, you went, explain this to your associates, you created this process. How long did it take you to start? All right. ORIC is live now. It's, it's happening everybody. So, Rania: on the twin first birthday is when I showed it to John. Oh, okay. For the first time, like, I created something that I want to share with you.can I come and see you? I actually, a friend facilitated this. It's not that easy to get access to John. Michael: Yeah. People gonna contact him. Hey John. Yeah. Rania: Like, now I forget. Like now I can text day. It was, um, and John gets. Pitched these ideas every day. So he wanted to be polite and he's like, okay, let's do a Zoom meeting.Like that's before Zoom was popular. I think it was something else like go to meeting or something. Mm-hmm. And he's like, don't fly to Seattle, because he was like 90% sure he was gonna say no. People pitch him crazy stuff every day. And I present this to him and he goes, I love it. Let's do something out of it.He's like, what do we do next? Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I didn't think it through. I didn't think. Yes. Michael: Yeah. Rania: And I'll back to you. And this is how the company really started. because before it was just, Forms and, I asked my husband to develop a couple of things to make it easier, but nothing was integrated into our system.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then, so how old is Orex? Rania: so we started the company in 2016. took about two years to have the first version, and it was only patient forms at the beginning, and then we did the clinical. And then we created the full software, Michael: the cloud, all in one platform, cloud. Mm-hmm. Based management software.Nice. Okay. And then, so right now, are you still rono working in your practice clinically? No. You sold it or I sold it. Rania: Oh man. When did you sell it? Soon after we started the company. It was taking way, like most of my time and most of my focus. Mm-hmm. So, Michael: How did you feel selling it? Were you like, is this, could I just do associates and do one clinical Rania: or, I thought about that and I realized I needed to focus.You know, having people think it's so easy to have associates and run the show from from afar. Yeah. But I tried it when I was on bed dressed and it's not that easy and it still takes you a lot of time and dedication. You cannot be on a beach or doing something else and have people working at everything goes smoothly.So I realized I had to decide, do I want to focus a hundred percent on Orx or 50% on orx, 55% on a practice. And I saw the potential in Orex. So, so I decided that it was the right choice. What made it really easy is one of the associates that came to work with us, um, was a perio pro. and he was an amazing clinician.And like at first when I thought about selling the practice and I spoke to, uh, a broker, everyone he presented to me, I was, I'm not too sure. I'm not too sure. But then when, Dr. Han said I'm interested in buying, it was a very easy decision. Like, he's gonna take great care of my patients, so Michael: and so he bought it.Okay, nice. So since then it's been, Man, all in with Oryx. and what I like about Oryx too is, You are open to everybody, right? DSLs and everything, but it's Yeah. Based off of a private practice, right? Where it's like, this is who created it for solo practitioner. Right. Like the private practice too, who can, can make it happen. Rania: Yeah. I think I, I was recently looking at, the practices that we get and our fastest growing segment is the startups.because for a startup it's really a no-brainer. I mean, no one is, no startup is going with the server, I hope. Mm-hmm. And they're getting on the tools that they need in one practice management software. They're getting the clinical and they're also getting a company with a forward vision. So, Anyone that looks at, at our software three years ago would think it's a tool to be new software now.So we're constantly evolving. Like we just added AI for radio graphs. every month we have a lot of new releases. Mm-hmm. Um, up to this date we spend most of our, money on development and engineering. So, We didn't think, okay, now we have a great product. Let's do all marketing and all sales, which most companies do.we still do a lot of development. I still think, that the software could be Michael: a lot. Like a lot of research and development in that process. Interesting. Talk to me about that ai, you, you're starting to implement that into. Rania: Yeah. Yeah. So, so we had a, uh, recent partnership with Pearl ai. we worked on the integration and we made it native.Uh, and I'm very careful with any integration I do because, Everyone wants to partner with everyone, but then, yeah, and then these integrations are clunky and they don't work and they're not part of the flow. So a big part of the decision with, which AI company we go with was, Who's gonna put enough resources to have a very, very seamless integration.Like, I don't want you to click on an image and take you to another software, and now wait for it to load. And now look and now see if mm-hmm there's decay or where the bone level is. I want it to happen immediately. and Pearl was one of the companies that worked with us, around that vision, and they were willing to put.Enough resources. So for each partnership, you need the two sides to be willing to put, enough engineering hours to make it an amazing integration. Michael: Yeah. No, wow. That's fantastic. That's news for me. I didn't know that. Pearl's fantastic. Like I spoke with Kyle not that long ago, and he's, highly about it, so we looked into it and it's, they're doing amazing things over there too.Yeah. So for both you guys to be partnering up, it's gonna be, it's new, you know. It's like, um, I guess like innovative, but at the same time, like it's uh, I mean, you know, it hasn't been done, so it's fantastic. Yeah, you're right. You are doing a lot of development in Oryx. I like that. So then what have you seen with startups right now where you can give us some good advice as far as within their year one to year five?Where maybe they did go with the server. Maybe they are paying an IT company, but also like they're also doing marketing, all this other stuff and they're kind of feeling like they're hitting a, a roadblock here somewhere. So, Rania: I dunno, like if you started with the server, it's not a good idea because if you're thinking to, it's not gonna grow with you the way you want.I mean, this is not the trend, this is not how the industry is moving I see a lot of the young startups thinking about having multiple locations, about growing. you need to start on cloud for that vision to happen. So, and we already have seen like, started with us two years ago now are on their third or fourth location, like Wow.Already. So I see that everyone is moving a lot faster than things were moving when I had my practice. in terms of marketing, I see that a lot of startups focus at the beginning on the external marketing and then they rely a lot on orgs for their internal marketing. and I always think about it this way, a and this is kind of what I did in my practice in the very early days.So the first 90 days we were spending 10 to $20,000 on AdWords, which was cra like Google did an article on us. Yeah. It was, back then it was crazy. Not a lot, much money. Yeah. Now it's more the trend. But back then was like, who's that crazy dentist? Yeah. Spending all that money. But this is what got patients in the door.And then having a great experience is what got the patients to come back. and I find with orgs, like they go, they do their online scheduling. It's already an amazing way of doing things. Um, they complete their patients forms. They're very interactive. We surveyed patients and they said that they thought that the office is more technologically advanced and they had more trust in the dentist before even visiting the practice.just because all the forms are picture based, very, very interactive. So patients are already getting that great experience. and then when the patients come in, they have this amazing exam. They have the report, all the, tools that they need are integrated. So it's very easy to pay. They're getting a tax to pay.they're signing their consent forms before coming online. So they feel that this experience carries through and these great experiences is what leads to giving the office a five star review. and it keeps growing that way. so we see a lot of our users telling us that Orex helps with their vision because it's that organized and it gives that patient that amazing experience start to finish.Michael: that's really good. Wow. Okay. So then, Orx right now is basically for everyone, but especially if you're looking to do a startup, it's the best starting point for you right now. Rania: I believe so. I believe, uh, not because I created it, but I believe it has a lot of tools that are so helpful for someone starting out.So let's say I was starting out and I hadn't gone through the Coy Center, I have on that. On the co information is already embedded in the software and it's all, updated every year. so if I'm doing an exam on a patient and I'm not sure about some diagnosis, I click on the information I can, and I have all the literature where this came from.So if a patient challenges me, like. Why are you recommending this treatment? I would just copy and paste the articles, like this is the latest literature, that's why we're recommending this treatment. if I want to send something to the insurance company, I have the latest literature, I have the diagnosis already pre-attached, and we pre-attached the radiograph.So like the whole system makes it so much easier. but for a new dentist, You're getting a software that is preloaded with the latest literatures on the forms that you need on the consent forms. Like basically a practice in a box. Yeah. And then you can customize it to what fits your needs and what fits your vision.But I think the clinical stuff there is in the software that's worth, yeah. Michael: Thousands of dollars. That, and that's what I get when I'm talking to you too, is like, I feel. You're really honed in on the, well, obviously cuz you created it, right? But like on the clinical side, the practical side, right? Like the, where it's like this is what is gonna facilitate your guys' job way much more times a thousand compared to like, we have a better online scheduling button, you wanna click it and it can be on the top left laptop.Right. You know what I mean? Like that's like, okay cool. I'd rather have that, you know what I mean? The clinical side of it, which is interesting. Very, very refreshing. Rania: Yeah. I think I'm more passionate about the clinical side because that's what I know, that's what I live and grieve. But I'm also very passionate about systems.And you see this in the practice management software throughout. So if you talk to one of, uh, of the other team members that were office managers, they would talk a lot more about that side of things. Mm-hmm. Um, And I think creating systems in your practice very early on would avoid some of the problems that I had.So if you're checking in a patient, there's a checklist for checking in a patient and if everything is checked, The appointment turns screen so you know that, the predetermination was sent, or the eligibility was checked. We checked the insurance, the patient is confirmed. I have all the information that I need pre-appointment, and I could customize the list to what my practice is.Same thing. If I'm checking out a patient, the appointment turns dark gray when everything is done. Uh, so I don't have to go to the front end, ask Olivia, did you collect the payment? Did you schedule the next appointment? Did you do this? Whatever is my checkout checklist. I know it's done when the appointment is dark gray.So at the end of the day, I wanna look at my screen and see it's all dark gray and. Blood pressure drop, so I know everything was Michael: done. You're like, maybe gel isn't that good right now. You know, Rania: easy, like, you know, these little systems and coming from the clinical perspective, like if you start thinking about it, I'm sending an insurance claim, everything auto attaches, like why am I having Mary in the front go and.Grab Tracy and ask her which one is number three. I need to attach it for Crown because we have, the radiographic system native to us. We know that this is the radiograph for number three. So now if I have a root can add that I'm sending to the insurance company, I'm auto attaching all of this. So we remove a lot of the barriers. Michael: Yeah. Increase more efficiency. Than anything else. Yeah. For you, Rania, I mean, I, I'm gonna ask a lot of, uh, Orex users this, but like for you, what was the thing that excited you the most right now from this point on to before? I know like every time there's something new that comes on, you're like, oh yeah.But right now, from this point on that you absolutely love utilize from Orex.Every Rania: month I have a new feature that I love and sometimes I even forget some features that we, and I'm like, oh, we have this. It's so cool. Uh, but I honestly think the risk assessment that we is the most valuable tool. just because gives you so much information about the patient. It. Excites your team.Like now your team understands why you do what you do. The team member reads this and at the front, you know how you get sometimes some team members that feel, oh, this doctor is pushing more treatment than they should. I don't like that. And now they understand or they're, they think they're trying to save the patient by saying, it's okay.You can do a filling, you don't need that crown, or mm-hmm. Let's do a trophy instead of the scaling. now your home team is on the same page. I find that, like, this is amazing for the team members because they understand the risk of the patient. It's amazing for the patient because they're educated and they're happy and they're referring you more, uh, patients, and it's easier for you because it makes you proud of your practice.Like this is what you're communicating to your patients. So I think that's the strongest tool or the one that I'm the most proud of. Yeah, Michael: the wheel, what the patient's term coined it, right. And they call it the wheel, but yeah, they call it theum, which is cool. Like, you know what I mean? They get it, they kind of give you the own nickname and then they're like, yeah, I wanna see the wheel.So I think that's fantastic too. If people wanted to see it, let's just say it right now. There's people who are like, oh man, I don't have orx, but what is the wheel all about? Can they go mind that somewhere? Rania: Yeah. I mean on our website or external software.com, and they can book a demo there. Rania Saleh DRAFT: okay. Michael: Yeah, guys, go do that.Thank you so much, Ranya, for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you if they have any more questions or concerns? Rania: yeah, sure. Uh, hello@orexdentalsoftware.com and I'll answer you Michael: Uhhuh. Awesome. So guys go in Tolo, reach out to her, and at the same time, schedule a free personalized demo with Oryx.Check out the wheel, but check out every single thing that Rona's talking about, everything that they're developing, that they're doing, uh, for your practice. So I highly recommend it's gonna be the first link in the show notes below. So go check that out. And Ronya, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon.Thank you.‍‍

I'm excited to announce that the Pediatric Dental Marketing Course is officially open for enrollment!This comprehensive course, developed by Minal Sampat and myself, is tailored specifically for pediatric practice owners and their teams. It is designed to turn your pain points into stepping stones for success, and to help you become the trusted dental home for countless children in your community. Head over to our site to enroll now! https://pediatricdentalmarketingcourse.com/‍‍Welcome this week's MMM! In this episode, I dive more into ChatGPT and how it can revolutionize your dental practice's rewards program and enhance patient retention. Join me as I explore the innovative ways that AI-powered ChatGPT can assist you in creating personalized and engaging loyalty programs that keep your patients coming back for more. From tailored incentives to effective point systems, discover how leveraging ChatGPT's expertise can take your dental practice to new heights, fostering lasting relationships with your valued patients. These outlines might be the next step to building an exceptional rewards program that not only boosts patient loyalty but also ensures their oral health remains at its best!‍Drop in on this week's episode to walk through step by step how to utilize ChatGPT to increase retention!‍Other Mentions and Links:ChatGPT‍Prompts that I use in the video:‍PROMPT:I'm a dental practice. What are some reasons why patients might stop using my services? What can I do to address these issues and keep patients engaged?‍What ChatGPT said:Patients may stop using a dental practice's services for a variety of reasons. Here are a few, along with potential solutions:Cost: Dental care can be expensive, especially for procedures not covered by insurance.Solution: Provide transparency about costs upfront, offer flexible payment plans, and work closely with insurance companies to maximize benefits.Inconvenient Location or Hours: If your office isn't easy to get to, or doesn't offer appointments outside of normal business hours, this could deter some patients.Solution: Consider expanding your hours of operation, offer weekend or evening appointments, and ensure your location is easily accessible by public transit or has sufficient parking.Negative Experiences: A bad experience during a visit, such as painful treatments, can scare patients away.Solution: Focus on patient comfort, use gentle techniques, provide clear explanations about procedures and manage patient expectations to minimize discomfort and fear.Poor Communication: If patients feel that they're not being heard, or don't understand their treatment options, they may seek care elsewhere.Solution: Encourage open dialogue, listen carefully to patients' concerns, provide clear explanations and present all treatment options.Long Waiting Times: Spending too much time in the waiting room can lead to frustration.Solution: Streamline office processes, implement efficient scheduling, and communicate clearly with patients if delays are expected.Lack of Personal Touch: Patients like to feel valued and appreciated. If they feel like they're just another number, they might leave.Solution: Show genuine care and interest in your patients. Remember personal details, make the environment welcoming, and ensure all staff members treat patients with warmth and respect.Outdated Equipment or Techniques: Patients might feel uncomfortable if they perceive that your practice isn't keeping up with the latest dental technologies or methods.Solution: Regularly update equipment as needed and continue education for you and your staff to stay abreast of the latest dental techniques and treatments.Lack of Comprehensive Services: If patients have to go elsewhere for certain procedures, they might switch to a provider that offers comprehensive services.Solution: Offer a wide range of services, or establish partnerships with specialists for easy referrals.In addition to these solutions, consider surveying your patients regularly to identify any unmet needs or areas for improvement. Also, maintain a strong online presence and positive online reviews, which can help attract and retain patients. Providing a consistent, positive experience will encourage patients to stay with your practice long term.‍PROMPT:Are there any loyalty or rewards programs that I could offer to incentivize patients to continue using my services? What rewards or benefits would be most appealing to my target audience?‍What ChatGPT said:Yes, loyalty or rewards programs can be a great way to encourage repeat business and foster patient loyalty. Here are a few ideas:Points Programs: Patients could earn points for every visit, which they can redeem for a discount on future treatments. You could also give bonus points for referrals or for scheduling regular six-month check-ups.Referral Rewards: You could offer discounts or even free basic services (like cleanings) for patients who refer new customers to your practice.Membership Programs: For a monthly or yearly fee, patients get access to certain services at discounted rates. This could be particularly appealing to patients without dental insurance.Family Discounts: Offering special rates for families or couples could incentivize people to bring their entire family to your practice.Special Promotions: Regular promotions on certain services can help to keep patients engaged. For instance, a teeth whitening discount during the holidays, when people want to look their best for family photos.Birthday Perks: A small gesture like a free service upgrade, discount, or even a non-dental gift on a patient's birthday can make them feel appreciated and special.Patient of the Month: Spotlight a patient of the month and offer them a special perk. This not only rewards the patient but also fosters a sense of community among your clientele.As for which rewards would be most appealing, it can depend on your patient demographics. A survey could help you understand what your patients value most. Younger patients might appreciate discounts on cosmetic services like whitening, while older patients might value discounts on restorative work. Families would likely appreciate discounts for children's services. Regardless of the specifics, the goal should be to make patients feel valued and that their loyalty is appreciated.‍PROMPT:I need you to create a comprehensive "loyalty program" that has all the features stated above. This loyalty program needs aid and address the issues and reasons why a patient would stop using my services.What ChatGPT said:Absolutely, here is an example of a comprehensive loyalty program named "Smile Rewards."1. Smile Rewards MembershipAnnual or Monthly SubscriptionPatients can join the Smile Rewards membership for a yearly or monthly fee. Benefits of membership include:Two free check-ups and cleanings per year, which encourages regular dental visits.A discount of 10% to 20% on all other treatments, making your services more cost-effective.Priority scheduling and shorter waiting times, addressing the issue of long waiting times.Family packages available for a discounted rate to encourage whole family dental care.2. Points for Visits & TreatmentsEarn Points on Every VisitPatients earn points for every visit, regardless of the type of treatment. The number of points could depend on the cost of the treatment. These points can be redeemed for discounts on future treatments, encouraging ongoing engagement.3. Birthday Bonus PointsCelebrate with a GiftMembers receive bonus points on their birthday, which can be used to further discount treatments or get a free dental product, such as a professional toothbrush or whitening kit.4. Referral RewardsRecommend and EarnWhen existing patients refer a new patient, both receive a reward. The existing patient could get extra points, and the new patient could get a discount on their first treatment. This helps encourage patient referrals and grow your client base.5. Special PromotionsSeasonal Discounts & MoreMembers get access to special promotions throughout the year. This could be discounts on teeth whitening during the holidays, or discounts on other services during Dental Health Month. You could also consider having occasional 'double points' days.6. Patient of the MonthRecognition and RewardEach month, spotlight one patient as the "Patient of the Month." The selected patient could receive a unique reward such as a free service upgrade, additional reward points, or a gift card to a local business. This not only rewards the patient but also fosters a sense of community.7. Access to Latest Services & TechnologiesStay Ahead with Smile RewardsMembers get early access to any new services or technologies you introduce, ensuring they feel they are receiving the best and most up-to-date care.By offering a comprehensive program like Smile Rewards, you address common reasons why patients might leave while also providing incentives that encourage loyalty and ongoing engagement with your practice. The result is a program that adds value for both your practice and your patients.‍PROMPT:I need you to come up with compelling, enticing rewards that patients receive when they decide to redeem their points. These have to motivate/ encourage/ excite the patient.‍What ChatGPT said:Absolutely, here are some enticing rewards that you could offer when patients decide to redeem their points:1. Free Teeth Whitening Session: A smile can be transformed by teeth whitening, and offering this as a redeemable reward is a great incentive that can significantly enhance a patient's confidence.2. Electric Toothbrush or Water Flosser: Offering high-quality dental products like a professional-grade electric toothbrush or water flosser is a practical reward that patients will appreciate and use daily.3. Free Oral Hygiene Products for a Year: Imagine not having to worry about buying toothpaste, floss, or mouthwash for a whole year. This would be a useful reward and a constant reminder of your practice whenever they use these products.4. Cosmetic Dentistry Discounts: A significant discount on a cosmetic dentistry procedure like veneers or bonding can be a strong motivator for patients interested in improving the aesthetic appeal of their smile.5. Denture or Orthodontic Discounts: For those needing these treatments, a substantial discount can be a major relief financially and encourage them to proceed with necessary treatments.6. Spa or Wellness Center Gift Cards: A relaxing day at a local spa or wellness center could be a compelling reward that adds a personal touch.7. Dental Insurance Premiums for a Year: If feasible, covering a patient's dental insurance premiums for a year would be an exceptionally enticing reward.8. Advanced Dental Hygiene Session: A session with a dental hygienist who would provide personalized advice on how to take care of their teeth and gums based on their oral health would be both educational and beneficial.9. Limited Edition Dental Products: Offering limited-edition dental care items like themed toothpaste or toothbrushes can be fun and exciting for patients, particularly for younger ones.10. Complimentary Sedation Dentistry: For patients who experience dental anxiety, this reward would allow them to undergo necessary procedures in a more relaxed manner.These rewards provide a mix of practical benefits and luxury experiences. They not only encourage patients to continue using your services but also promote good oral hygiene habits and overall wellness.‍PROMPT:Can you make the rewards less about dentistry and more about lifestyle? My target audience are mothers who have a family. Between the ages of 25-55. They live in a suburban area. Income range is 50k to 150k.‍What ChatGPT said:Certainly, it sounds like the rewards you're looking for should be more family-oriented and cater to a suburban lifestyle. Here are some ideas that may appeal to your target demographic:Spa Day Packages: A relaxing day at a local spa, possibly including services like massages, facials, or body treatments. This would allow them to take some well-deserved time for self-care.Local Restaurant Gift Cards: Gift cards for popular local restaurants would give them an opportunity for a family dinner or a night off from cooking.Subscription Box Services: This could include a year's subscription to a popular meal kit service, a book club, or a monthly craft box for their kids. These services offer both convenience and entertainment value.Local Entertainment or Activity Passes: This could include tickets to local theme parks, zoos, or museums. They would provide a fun day out for the entire family.Fitness or Yoga Class Passes: A package of passes to a local yoga studio or gym can help them focus on their health and wellbeing.Gardening Gift Sets: If they have a garden, a gift set with high-quality gardening tools, seeds, or decor could be appreciated.Home Cleaning Services: Free professional cleaning services for their house. This provides convenience and frees up their time for other activities.Cooking Class Vouchers: For those interested in culinary skills, vouchers for cooking classes in a local culinary school or online could be enticing.Online Shopping Vouchers: Gift cards for popular online retailers can give them the flexibility to choose something they need or want.Professional Family Photo Shoot: A free session with a local professional photographer could provide cherished family memories.These rewards should provide meaningful experiences and conveniences to moms living in a suburban area, fitting well within their lifestyle and interests. Remember to regularly update and refresh the rewards based on feedback to keep the program appealing and relevant to your audience.‍PROMPT:Now please make a very detailed and comprehensive Loyalty Program. Make sure it includes the rewards. The features. The benefits.‍What ChatGPT said:Sure, I'll consolidate the elements we've discussed into a detailed, comprehensive loyalty program designed for your target demographic:Program Name: "Family Smile Rewards"1. Membership EnrollmentPatients can sign up for Family Smile Rewards by paying a yearly or monthly subscription fee, providing immediate access to benefits. Family packages are available at discounted rates to encourage comprehensive family dental care.2. Points SystemMembers earn points for every visit. The number of points depends on the cost of the treatment, incentivizing regular dental visits and treatments. Points can be redeemed for a variety of lifestyle-oriented rewards.3. Birthday Bonus PointsTo celebrate their special day, members receive bonus points on their birthday. This offers an annual boost in points that can be redeemed for rewards.4. Referral BonusesWhen existing members refer new patients to the practice, both the referring member and the new patient receive a points bonus. This encourages the growth of your practice through word-of-mouth.5. Special PromotionsMembers gain access to special promotions throughout the year. These might include double points days or bonus points for trying new dental services, encouraging regular engagement with your practice.6. Patient of the MonthEach month, highlight one member as the "Patient of the Month." This selected member receives bonus points, fostering a sense of community and adding an element of fun competition.7. Early Access to New Services & TechnologiesMembers receive early access to new services or technologies, ensuring they feel they are receiving the most up-to-date dental care.RewardsPoints earned through the Family Smile Rewards program can be redeemed for a variety of lifestyle-oriented rewards that cater to a suburban family lifestyle. Rewards could include:Spa day packages at local establishments.Gift cards for popular local restaurants.Subscriptions to popular meal kit services, book clubs, or children's craft boxes.Passes to local family entertainment venues such as theme parks, zoos, or museums.Fitness or yoga class passes at local studios.Gardening gift sets for home gardening enthusiasts.Professional home cleaning services.Vouchers for local or online cooking classes.Online shopping vouchers for popular retailers.A professional family photo shoot with a local photographer.By creating a program that incentivizes regular dental care, fosters a sense of community, and offers appealing, lifestyle-oriented rewards, the Family Smile Rewards program can help to promote patient loyalty and retention, and ensure your practice continues to thrive.‍PROMPT:Provide more detail and information on point 1 for the patient‍What ChatGPT said:1. Membership EnrollmentJoining the Family Smile Rewards program is simple and straightforward. Interested patients can sign up directly at the dental office or through an easy-to-use online portal. A yearly or monthly subscription fee is required to activate the membership.Two types of membership are available: individual and family. The individual membership covers all benefits for one person. The family membership extends the same benefits to all immediate family members, making it a cost-effective choice for households with multiple members needing dental services.The family membership is designed to encourage comprehensive dental care for the whole family. It can cover spouses and children living in the same household, ensuring that everyone has access to quality dental care and the rewards of the program. A family membership also simplifies the process of managing dental appointments and rewards points as everything is consolidated under one account.The cost of the membership has been carefully set to ensure that it provides significant value to patients while also supporting the sustainability of the program. The fee covers the benefits such as free check-ups and cleanings, discounts on treatments, and access to special promotions and rewards.Once the subscription fee is paid, members immediately begin earning points on all dental visits and treatments, and have full access to all member benefits. The membership is automatically renewed at the end of each subscription period to ensure seamless access to benefits, but members have the option to cancel at any time.By joining the Family Smile Rewards program, patients not only invest in their dental health, but also gain access to a variety of benefits and rewards that enhance their lifestyle. The program is designed to provide exceptional value and encourage lasting relationships between the dental practice and the families it serves.‍PROMPT:Provide more detail and information on point 2 for the patient‍What ChatGPT said:2. Points SystemThe cornerstone of the Family Smile Rewards program is the points system, which enables members to earn points each time they visit the dental practice. Here's how it works:Earning PointsEvery time a member visits the practice, whether it's for a regular check-up, cleaning, or a more complex procedure, they earn points. The number of points earned is based on the cost of the treatment or service received. For example, a basic dental cleaning might earn fewer points than a more extensive procedure like a root canal.Tracking PointsPoints earned are automatically tracked and updated in the member's account after each visit. Members can easily check their points balance online or via a mobile app. Additionally, an update on the points balance will be included in appointment confirmation and follow-up emails.Point ExpirationPoints earned do not expire as long as the membership remains active. This means members can accumulate points over time until they have enough to redeem for the reward they want.Redeeming PointsOnce members have accumulated enough points, they can redeem them for a variety of lifestyle-oriented rewards. These rewards are designed to fit into a suburban family lifestyle and provide a range of options to cater to different interests. Members can select from rewards such as spa packages, local restaurant gift cards, meal kit subscriptions, local activity passes, and more.This points system offers an easy and straightforward way for members to gain additional value from their regular dental visits. By tying points to visit frequency and treatment cost, it encourages members to maintain regular dental care and proceed with necessary treatments, benefiting their long-term oral health.The more frequently a member visits the practice, the faster they'll earn points and the sooner they'll be able to redeem them for fantastic rewards. It's a win-win for both their dental health and their lifestyle.‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey, what's up guys? Welcome back to the Dental Marketer Podcast. This is another Monday morning marketing episode. And let me share my screen cuz we're gonna be talking about chat g p t again. And in this one I want to share with you guys a new, uh, there's many, many ways we can utilize, chat g p t, right?And, and we discussed it in the previous one. And in the previous one we kind of showed you how to make a whole Instagram. Content calendar literally for the year, but I showed you guys for the first, uh, two months, right, that you can pro how, how to create the description and everything like that. And you guys gave us fantastic feedback on that.And so I'm back at it again with another one here with you guys. and this one, um, I'm using the model G P T four, and you can use whichever model to be honest. But G P T four is a little bit more advanced. And the prompt here where we're gonna be talking about is building a loyalty program. And so I asked it.I said, I'm a dental practice. What are some reasons why patients might stop using my services? What can I do to address these issues and keep patients engaged? And this is what chat G P T said, patients may stop using a dental practices services for a variety of reasons. Here are a few along with potential solutions.Number one, cost. Dental care can be expensive, especially for procedure is not covered by insurance solution. Provide transparency about cost upfront. Offer flexible payment plans, and work closely with insurance companies to maximize benefits. That was the first thing you gave me. Two inconvenient location or hours.If your office isn't easy to get to or doesn't offer appointments outside of normal business hours, this could deter some patients. The solution it gave me is consider expanding your hours of operation. Offer weekend or evening appointments and ensure your location is easily accessible by public transit or has sufficient parking.Three negative experiences. A bad experience during a visit, such as painful treatments can scare patients away. The solution focused on patient comfort, use gentle techniques, provide clear explanations about procedures, and manage patient expectations to minimize discomfort and fear or poor communication.If patients feel that they're not being heard or don't understand their treatment options, they may seek care elsewhere the solution, encourage open dialogue, listen carefully to patients' concerns, provide clear explanations and presentation and present all treatment options. Number five. Long waiting times.This is a big one actually. I think even for me, it's a, spending too much time in the waiting room can lead to frustration solution, streamline office processes, implement efficient scheduling, and communicate clearly with patients if delays are expected. Six. Lack of personal touch. Patients like to feel valued and appreciated.If they feel like they're just another number, they might leave. The solution it gives us is show genuine care and interest in your patients. Remember personal details. Make the environment welcoming and ensure all staff members treat patients with warmth and respect. And in seven outdated equipment or techniques.Patients might feel uncomfortable if they, if they perceive that your practice isn't keeping up with the latest dental technologies or methods, the solution. Regularly update equipment as needed and continue education for you and your staff to stay abreast of the latest dental techniques and treatments.And finally, number eight, it gives us lack of comprehensive services. So if patients have to go elsewhere for certain procedures, they might switch to a provider that offers comprehensive services. The solution offer a wide range of services or established partnerships with specialists for easy referrals.And then it goes on to say, in addition to these solutions, consider surveying your patients regularly to identify any unmet needs or areas for improvement. Also maintain a strong online presence and positive online reviews, which can help attract and retain patients. Providing a consistent, positive experience will encourage patients to stay with your practice long term.So this is it. I asked it what are some reasons, and these were the eight reasons it gave me for why people would stop using my services if I was a dental practice. Top three was cost, second was inconvenient, location, or hours. And the third one was negative experiences. so this is something you can use, right, that prompt.And then I went on to ask it, are there any loyalty or rero rewards programs that I could offer to incentivize patients to continue using my services? What rewards or benefits would be most appealing to my target audience? Now, I wanted to ask the first thing first, like the first prompt, right? Like, what can I do to address these issues?What are some reasons why people might stop using my services? And you'll see why. So we figured out why, right? But let's just say you're a practice owner and you're like, you know what? I got pretty much this stuff covered. I offer flexible payments. Uh, we're open on Saturdays, sometimes Sundays, whatever, right?We have good experiences. Our waiting times are great. All this stuff. Now we want to think of rewarding, right? Create a loyalty program, build strong retention. And so I asked it are there any loyalty or rewards programs that I could offer to incentivize patients to continue using my services? What rewards or benefits would be most appealing to my target audience?And for those of you guys listening on the podcast, if you want, this is all in the show notes below, it's in the video, in the show notes below on our YouTube channel. Uh, but at the same time, I'm also gonna put it in the show notes below the actual, uh, copy and description of everything you're, you're listening to right now.So once I asked at that prompt, it said Yes, loyalty rewards programs can be a great way to encourage. Repeat business and foster patient loyalty. Here are a fewer ideas and it gives me seven ideas. Number one, points programs. Patients could earn points for every visit, which they can redeem for a discount on future treatments.You could also give bonus points for referrals or for scheduling, regular six month checkups. Number two, referral rewards. You could offer discounts or even free basic services like cleanings for patients who refer new customers to their practice. Three membership programs for a monthly or yearly fee.Patients get to access certain services at discounted rates. This could be particularly appealing to patients without dental insurance. Number four, family discounts. Offering special rates for families or couples could incentivize people to bring their entire family to your practice. Five special promotions.Regular promotions on certain services can help to keep patients engaged. For instance, teeth whitening discount during the holidays when people wanna look their best for family photos. Number six, birthday or anniversary perks. A small gesture like a free service upgrade, discount, or even non-dental gift on patient's birthdays can make them feel appreciated and special.Seven. Patient of the month Spotlight a patient. Of the month and offer them a special perk. This not only rewards the patient, but also fosters a sense of community among your clientele. Then it goes on to say, as for which rewards would be most appealing, it can depend on your patient's demographics. A survey could help you understand what your patients value.Most younger patients might appreciate discounts on cosmetic services like whitening, while older patients might value discounts on restorative work. Families will likely appreciate discounts for children's services. Regardless, the specifics, the goal should be to make patients feel valued and that their loyalty is appreciated.Now, I then asked it. I need you to create a comprehensive loyalty program that has all the features stated above. This loyalty program needs, to aid and address the issues and reasons why a patient would stop using my services. So now I'm meshing those two things that I asked and the results that it gave me together, and this is what it gives me.It says, absolutely. Here's an example of a comprehensive loyalty program named Smiles, rewards number one. Smiles Rewards membership. It's an annual monthly subscription. Patients can join the Smile Rewards membership for a yearly or monthly fee. And benefits of the membership include two free checkups and cleanings per year, which encourages regular dental visits, a discount of 10% to 20% on all other treatments, making your services more cost effective, priority scheduling, and shorter waiting times, addressing the issue of long waiting times and family packages available for a discounted rate to encourage whole family dental care.That was the number one. Number two points for visits and treatments. Earn points on every visits. Patients earn points for every visit regardless of the type of treatment. The number of points could depend on the cost of the treatment. These points can be redeemed for discounts on future treatments, encouraging ongoing engagement.Birthday bonus points. Celebrate with the gift members, receive bonus points on their birthday, which can be used to further discount treatments or get a free dental product such as a professional toothbrush or whitening kit. I also like anniversary bonus points. That's just, I'm gonna put my own take to that because you know, you're kinda like celebrating, Hey, you've been with us for a year.You've been with us for two year. You're rewarding that, right? Their loyalty. Number four, referral rewards recommend an earn when existing patients refer a new patient both receive a reward. This existing patient could get extra points and the new patient could get a discount on their first treatment.This helps encourage patient referrals and grow your client base. Five special promotions, seasonal discounts, and more. Uh, members get access to special promotions throughout the year. This could be discounts on teeth whitening during the holidays or discounts on other services during dental health month.You could also consider having occasional double point days. I believe there's a lot of apps that do that where it's like, Hey, double points on this day on a Tuesday, right? Because that's like their slowest day on that restaurant. So you can do that here too. Six patient of the month. Recognition and reward Each month, spotlight one patient as the patient of the month.The selected patient could receive a unique reward, such as free service, upgrade, additional reward points, or a gift card to a local business. This not only rewards the patient, but also fosters a sense of community. Seven access to the latest services and technology. So stay ahead with Smile's Rewards, it says, members get early access to any new services or technologies you introduce, ensuring they feel they are receiving the best and most UpToDate care.By offering a comprehensive program like Smile's Rewards you address common reasons why patients might leave, while also providing incentives that encourage loyalty and ongoing engagement with your practice. result is a program that adds value for both your practice and your patients. Now, this is good so far, what chat G p T has provided, but I wanted to get more specific.So I said I need you to come up with a compelling, enticing reward that patients receive when they decide to redeem their points. These have to motivate slash encouraged slash excite the patient. And it gives me, once I asked that, it gave me 10, enticing quote unquote rewards that you could offer when patients decide to redeem their points.I think some of the points are great. Some of, I mean, some of the rewards are great and some are not so realistic, and so I'm just gonna let you know what they are. It does provide like a description, but I'm not gonna read the descriptions. You guys can see it here if you want. So number one was free teeth whitening.Session number two was an electric toothbrush or water flosser. Number three was free oral hygiene products for a year. Now that one says, imagine not having to worry about buying toothpaste, flosser mouthwash for a whole year. This would be a useful reward and a constant reminder of your practice whenever they use these products.Maybe that could work. I don't know. Right. I just thought that one was interesting. Number four, cosmetic dentistry discounts. Number five, denture or orthodontic discounts. Number six, SPA or wellness centered gift cards. That's good. Number seven, dental insurance premiums for a year. that one says if feasible, covering a patient's dental insurance premiums for a year would be an exceptionally enticing reward.Number eight at advanced dental hygiene session number nine, limited addition dental products and number 10, complimentary sedation dentistry. And then it says, these rewards provide a mix of practical benefits and luxury experiences. They not only encourage patients to continue using your services, but also promote good oral hygiene habits and overall wellness, which is good, but I feel like you know what?You got them in the door already. They're there. You wanna build good retention. I don't know. I, I, I wanted a different type of reward, right? Me personally. So I then went to ask Chad d p t, and I gave it this prompt. Can you make the rewards less about dentistry and more about lifestyle? My target audience are mothers who have a family between the ages of 25 to 55.Pretty broad. They live in a suburban area. Their income range is, income range is 50,000 to 150,000. Now this is what it gives me. Certainly, it sounds like the rewards you're looking for should be more family oriented and cater to a suburban lifestyle. Here are some ideas that might, that may appeal to your target demographic, and it gives me 10.Number one spa day packages, A relaxing day at a local spa, possibly including services like massages, facials, or body treatments. This would allow them to take some well-deserved time for self-care. Number two, local restaurant gift cards. If cards for popular local restaurants would give them an opportunity for a family dinner or a night off from cooking three subscription boxes services.This could include a year subscription to a popular meal kit service, a book club, or a monthly craft box for their kids. These services offer both convenience and entertainment value. Four, local entertainment or activity passes. This could include tickets to the local theme parks, zoos, museums. They would provide a fun day out for the entire family.Five fitness or yoga class passes. A package of passes to a local U yoga studio or gym can help them focus on their health and wellbeing. Six. Gardening gift sets. If they have a garden, a gift set with high quality gardening, tool, seeds or decor. Could be. Appreciate it. Seven Home cleaning services, free professional cleaning services for their house.This provides convenience and frees up their time for other activities. Eight. Cooking class vouchers. For those interested in culinary schools, vouchers for cooking classes in a local culinary school or online could be enticing. Number nine, online shopping vouchers, gift cards for popular online retailers can give them the flexibility to choose something they need or want, and 10.Professional family photo shoot, a free session with the local professional photographer could provide cherished family memories. And then it says, these rewards should provide meaningful experiences and convenience to moms living in a suburban area fitting well within their lifestyle and interest.Remember to regularly update and refresh the rewards based on feedback to keep the program appealing and relevant to your audience. And I agree with that. I think putting these one to 10. And to like emailing it out or just, you know what I mean? However you communicate with your patients, if you want to email it to them, be like, guys, we're gonna, this month we're gonna pick one of these rewards.What do you want? We're creating a poll and they physically will pick right. Your patients. And then they're, you know, you create more of like, oh my gosh, we're doing number four. Local entertainment or activity passes. The people who actually picked out are gonna want it. This is more to me like, okay, yeah, this, this works.Obviously you wanna adjust that prompt to the more specific and targeted you can be With chat g p t, the better. So if you tell that like we have mothers who are, our main demographic is mothers who are 35 to 50. Their income wage is exactly a hundred to 120. Their husbands working corporations. Uh, they go on vacation once a week, stuff like that.Like, or once a month, once a year. If you can put things in like that, it will be more specific, the rewards. But this is what I gave it, and that's the rewards gave me. So then I said, now please make a very detailed and comprehensive loyalty program. Make sure it includes the rewards, the features, the benefits.And it did, as you can see, right? It, it gives you the program name is Family Small Rewards, the membership, enrollment, the Point Systems, number two, three birthday PO bonus points, four, referral bonuses, five special promotions, six, patient of the month, seven, early access to new services and technology. And then boom, it gives you the rewards.this is one thing I want you guys to pay attention to, especially when it gives you bullet points. If you can get bullet points or numerical things like this, it's perfect. So it says, number one, membership enrollment, boom, right? Patients can sign up. Now, this is basically an outline right here. What you can do now is just say, provide more detail and information on 0.1 for the patient, and it does membership enrollment, number one.Joining the Family Smile Rewards Program is simple and straightforward. Interested. Patients can sign up directly at the dental office or through an easy to use online portal, a yearly or monthly, and it goes on and on, and it gives you a whole comprehensive, detailed thing on membership enrollment. Now all you have to do is copy this it says Send message, and then now you wanna put number two, so it says, provide more detail and information.On point number two for the patient, which is the point system, and there it goes. As you can see, it's giving you a more detailed, comprehensive, for the patient. Right? Uh, I guess like information on point number two, which is the point system and then it goes, how can you earn points? How do you track your points point expiration?Does that exist? Redeeming points? How does that go? Right? point expiration is simple points earned do not expire as long as the membership remains active. This means members can accumulate points over time until they have enough to redeem for the reward that they want, and it continues. And then all you have to do is put that in a sheet, Google Doc, and then copy that, and then put number three, and then you continue.Continue. And guess what guys? You've created your loyalty program. That's how you do it. That's as simple as that. I mean, this literally can only take you 30 minutes or less. And you can create a comprehensive loyalty program for your practice, detailed specific, just for your practice, to increase patient retention, to increase membership signup programs, right?Because this could go with every patient or it could just go with people who are part of the membership program, right? And that's how you can kind of. Siphon people, a lot of the insurance, uh, wheel that they have. Um, but yeah, I wanted to share this with you guys on how you can create it, how you can use chat g p t in a really, really great way.I'm gonna put this in the shell notes below so you can copy the prompts, um, adjusted to how you want to do it too as well. Um, and let us know, let us know what you think about this episode. If you want another one, we'll be happy to bring back, chat g p t on our Monday morning marketing episodes and we can give you more of these.But I hope this really, really benefits you guys, and until next time, we'll talk to you in the next episode.‍

I'm excited to announce that the Pediatric Dental Marketing Course is officially open for enrollment!This comprehensive course, developed by Minal Sampat and myself, is tailored specifically for pediatric practice owners and their teams. It is designed to turn your pain points into stepping stones for success, and to help you become the trusted dental home for countless children in your community. Head over to our site to enroll now! https://pediatricdentalmarketingcourse.com/‍‍Guest: Kyle RothBusiness Name: Encompass Dental TransitionsCheck out Kyle's Media:Website: https://encompass-ihc.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drkyleroth/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roth-dds‍Other Mentions and Links:InvisalignLVI Las Vegas InstituteW HotelCerecMcDonald'sHenry ScheinBencoPattersonUNC Chapel HillFaceTimeGreen Lights - Matthew McConaughey‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Try having the majority of your services done in-house! Referring might sound easy, but patients don't want to travel down the road to get work done.You do NOT need to be at the cutting edge of technology. Investing in new technology is important, but don't get carried away with every brand new toy.Annually, it's much easier to ramp up a 600k practice to 1.2 million, than it is to grow a 1 million dollar practice to a 2 million dollar practice. Keep this in mind if acquiring a practice!Small towns can be a gold mine for opportunity with patients! You may have more practice buyers in a city location though.Internal marketing is vastly underutilized in dental practices. Have a system for marketing to your patients!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Kyle, how's it going? Kyle: It's going great. How are you doing? Michael: I'm doing pretty good, man. Thanks for asking. If you could tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you are today? Kyle: Well, that's a long road, but, uh, I graduated in, uh, 1999, which is a long time ago now, but, uh, My, my plans were to buy a dental practice and pretty much going to be working at that one dental practice my entire life.And it really didn't work out that way at all. It, uh, lots of things happened. Lot of good things happened. some not so good, but most of the things were really good. got outta school and we ended up. we either started from scratch or purchased 36 practices. And, uh, also in the middle of all that I was selling a few practices and, uh, we had some brokerage help.Which was not the best of help. And I thought with, I have a, uh, actually I've got a financial background before dentistry. Hmm. Uh, I, I thought that maybe we could do better than, than the help that we got. We could hold the hand of the dentist going through the, uh, procedure, going through the, uh, the sale, the transition, and, uh, help them financially.And, uh, we did, so we became a broker. At first it was more of a hobby and now we're probably one of the top five biggest in the country. So it's, uh, it is been a lot of fun. Nice. Michael: What's the name of the company? Kyle: company is Encompass Dental Transitions.Okay. Michael: Okay. Nice man. But let's rewind a little bit. Okay. In 1999, you graduated and you planned to buy one dental practice. Correct. Did you always want to, or was there even before that you're like, I just wanna be an associate, or, no, you always had the plan of buying your own practice. Kyle: I, you know, when I graduated, if you were gonna get in private practice, you would go out there and just as soon as you graduated, open a practice.Uh, some people worked as associates, but most of 'em didn't. They just, if they knew what they wanted to do. They went and bought something and, and things have changed a little bit too with the banks, right? I mean, they were really anxious to, to land. I got my first loan halfway through senior year. I mean, I still had to take board exams and everything.I could have failed. Mm-hmm. But, uh, we started building a building from scratch in 1999. And, uh, it finished not too long after I graduated. Michael: Yeah. No, that's good. And then you said you, there's a lot of good things that happened and not so good things. Talk to me about the good things that happened.Kyle: Well, the, the, the good things were, you know, I, I, the, the first office I had meant to be high end, super high end for, for this area. We had stuff that nobody had. Uh, and it was a very cool, Practice. We were not gonna see any insurance. It was gonna be all a hundred percent fee for service. And it was working pretty well at first, September 11th, got cracked pretty hard all of a sudden, because of all of the drama unfolding with September 11th.the patients didn't come to the practice anymore. We were like, oh God, we're either gonna become, we're gonna have to see some insurance companies, or we're gonna let some people go. And I couldn't, I didn't have the heart to let people go. So we started seeing some insurance, a whole lot of it. and even in the meantime, we were seeing some Medicaid until I got busy.I said I might as well see a little bit. So I did, when it was such a big deal, the newspaper came to us and said, why are you seeing Medicaid? Nobody does that. And I just said, well, I've gotta be busy. I'd rather learn and, and be, be paid something even though it's not a lot of money, it's something, uh, rather than sit around and watch TV and wait for patients to come.But what happened is the office was getting torn up a little bit, cuz it wasn't always the best type of patient coming in. Mm-hmm. Things were disappearing and getting torn up a little bit. So I've, I said I've gotta come up with a solution to this. and what I came up with is just moving all of the Medicaid patients into a completely different office somewhere, and then making my single office by itself, or fee for service and, and, uh, private patients, ramping it up, making it as nice as I possibly could.But what happened is that Medicaid patient, a Medicaid office that I did open, Was slapped. I mean, because nobody in my town took it at all. But we had, from day one, we had two doctors in there six days a week. And it was, even to this day, it was the most profitable practice I've ever had. Uh, so I, I got two practices and I'm going, okay, now the, The shines and the bekos and the, Patterson Dentals were like, Hey, there's another empty office around the corner here.You wanna do that one too? And I'm like, not really, but let me take a look at it. And I'd look at it, I'm like, wow, we could open the third office. So we just kept doing that. Um, I became a part-time professor over at UNC Chapel Hill, and my students would always ask, Do you have an office in whatever town?Let's, let's say it's, uh, 20 minutes away and I'd say, well, no. I don't necessarily have a an office there that you can work at when you graduate, but I could build one. So I'd build an office. They'd go in there, they'd work in it, they'd build it up, and I'd always give them first opportunity to buy from me.The office they built up and buy it at a discount. So, you know, I'd, I'd have 3, 4, 5, 6 offices, then it'd go down, I'd sell a few, appeal a few off to new grads, and uh, it went, went on like that forever. So I didn't plan that business model, but, That's what seemed to have worked out. And, uh, it was good. I mean, if you want to hear the bad stuff, uh, we did a mobile dental unit.We thought we could go to some small towns with this mobile dental unit. Mm-hmm. So we built the, the nicest mobile dental unit, probably on the earth. It was, uh, three operatories. It had a amazing sound system. It was wrapped in, uh, photos of North Carolina from the, from the coast to the mountains. And we had a place where we could stick magnets in all the little counties and, uh, cities that we went to in the, in the, uh, state.And, uh, but it was more or less a disaster. we would, I have a, a bunch of small town government people reach out to us and say, Hey, that would be amazing if you would come to our town. I said, well, how do we get the message out that we're gonna be there at a certain day, certain time. They said, make some flyers for us.We'll have it already when you come. We'll, we'll advertise for you. And we'd get there and there'd be nobody, it was just, completely dead. And it, it would cost us about $2,000 to roll that thing out, basically to pay a doctor, uh, staff fuel. we'd, we'd spend $2,000 going to a town and in some cases there wasn't a single patient.We sat there all day and nothing. So there were, there were a few disasters along the way. the name of the bus itself was Smiles for Miles. Um, but it, it, it quickly became frowns for Miles. I mean, that's what some of my staff would call it. But, uh, there was that. Michael: Okay, man. Wow. Would, would you do that again or would you ever do a mobile unit or No, no.I, Kyle: I, I wouldn't. It could be done, but you have to have the staff on there that love it. I mean, we went into some poor neighborhoods, super poor neighborhoods and I loved it cuz we went and we had, we worked on kids through Medicaid and stuff and uh, you know, they would, the kids would, they had a hard life man.Like some of them would say, Hey, we couldn't sleep last night. There was gunshots all night long in our neighborhood. And uh, but it was amazing cuz we bought them pizza and we, we'd have a little party. And all the kids have the time of their life getting stuff that they don't normally get. but it, it was a labor of love and not everybody's yeared for that, you know?Yeah. Going to a different town every day. It's, it's, uh, it's tough. Michael: Yeah. No, I get you, man. I get you. But, so then rewind a little bit. I mean, you made it sound so easy, Kyle, like, where you're like, oh, we just bought something and then sold it and bought another practice for my student and sold it. Is it the.Kyle: Well, I, I, I'll tell you, it was easier when I, when I graduated. Mm-hmm. For sure. Things were easier. I didn't have as much competition. I really didn't, uh, especially in North Carolina. North Carolina was one of those states that people that wanted to move here had to take the North Carolina board exam, and you'd have the good old boy network that wanted to keep people out.So they'd go in there and there, there'd be somebody from, let's just say, New York. they would take the exam and then you'd see these good old boys administering the exam saying, nice work, son. But try again next year. You didn't quiet Megan. You know, and, uh, you know, and I think the, the board got a lot of heat eventually, and they can't do that anymore.So now we've got, we have, uh, dentists coming from. Everywhere. Everywhere and every time there's an article in the magazine saying that the Carolinas, Raleigh, and Charlotte are one of the top places in the country to live. You've got more and more. So it's now it's bumper cars of dentists, everybody's right down the street next to each other.It's all fighting for the same dollar and it's, it's tough. Yeah. Michael: So right now you currently have four, right? Kyle: Yes. Michael: Up and running. Are you planning to sell more Kyle: or no? I, I'm really not. I want to, I'd love to just keep it as is right now. inevitably we're gonna buy some more stuff. I've, I, I've seen a few little bargains out there recently that nobody else wants.Kind of the ugly duckling, you know? some of these places still have paper charts, you know, they, they've got a dark room. And when every, anybody that's graduated in the last 10 years, they see paper charts and a, uh, dark room. They immediately give it to Heisman and they're on their way out the door.and I don't want to buy those, but eventually the doctor's like, Hey, I need to retire. What do I need to do? What I wanted to tell 'em is, yeah, you really needed to add digital years ago, paperless, all of those things. But at this point, I can give you x number of dollars. And I can pay you cash and, you know, I'll take over and I'll renovate everything.so I do, and more often than not, I can offer them anything and they just want to get out, you know, they're done. it's fairly easy to take a lot of those. A lot of those are completely fee for service. They haven't modernized anything. They may have shagged carpeting and, By that time they've got, um, yellow stickies all over the waiting room saying, no smoking, no cell phones, no this, no that.And it's, so we just gut the whole thing. We renovate the entire place, put some modern stuff in there, even if we have to buy it used and we can get it going. And we open it up to insurances too, because a lot of these guys, their office has been dying over the years because it's a hundred percent fee for service.And when some of their old clientele passes away or moves, there's nobody there to take the place, you know? So we are opening up to the better insurance companies. We are doing marketing. Some of these guys don't even have a, a website. Uh, so we're having to do a lot of things to bring, bring people in the door, but just.The beautiful renovations that we do, people come in that have been coming there for 10 years and they go, oh my God, this is gorgeous. And then they tell five friends, and then those people come in. So it's, uh, especially in some of the smaller towns, it's still fairly easy in, in the big cities.It's, it's, it's a challenge, but it's still very doable. Yeah. Michael: So whenever you see a bargain, Kyle, you look at it, it's a bargain. You're like, I can't let this pass up. You buy it. And you kind of do that, the B R R R R method, right? Like you're like, bye, I am gonna like, or I dunno if you refinance and all that stuff, but like, you rehab it, you make it look really nice and then you sell it or you're more like, okay, no, I'm, Kyle: keep it, no look really nice.Then we, we hire some hardworking associates and put 'em in there and we, we try to mentor them as much as we possibly can, and when we get the numbers up, we make the phone ring. We do everything we can do to make that phone ring and ring and ring and start scheduling. Uh, a lot of those guys, a lot of the older doctors too, keep in mind they weren't diagnosing anything.So some of it existing patients, if you just get in there and diagnose all those ratty old amalgams that are fractured 17 times, but they're still in the mouth, they need to come out. So some of it's like, it's, it, it's a. Crown and bridge Factory immediately when you get some of those places, you know, it's, it's, you don't wanna overwhelm the people who thought they were good all these years by going, yeah, you probably need about five crowns.Well, my former dentist didn't tell me anything. Everything was good. You know, I, I don't wanna say anything and I don't wanna throw the guy under the bus, but the guy should have been diagnosing these things over the years and doing them. So some of it's just doing the work. Some of it's doing some advertising.keeping more in-house, try trying to find a way to keep everything in-house. The old school way is they, they'd refer everything, anything they didn't wanna do, they referred it. Mm-hmm. But no, it's, it's, it's harder. You have to learn how to do endo. You have to be, do some basic implant placement, some ortho, all those things.People don't want to be sent all over the town to get work done. They wanna be able to get it done right there. So we do everything we do to keep everything in house. Gotcha. Michael: how do you make the phone ring, like constantly? Like what is your guys' method?Kyle: Well, it's, there's a lot of things that go into it. Um, we, we have a marketing person that's all she does is social media and, uh, some mark other types of marketing, but, just a good website, paying for AdWords. we do, uh, internal marketing too. Everyone has a good experience. We make sure to, to ask them.Just say, hey, without, without sounding desperate to say, Hey, we wanna take care of good people just like you. So if you can send your family and friends, we'll take good care of them too. You know it, uh, People forget about the internal marketing. It's probably more important than the external stuff. And it's free, but you gotta do it.And it's, people will start doing it and then they kind of fall off and they don't do it anymore. But it's super important. Yeah. Michael: Okay. So it's like a little of everything, right? You kind of invest in, in that. So then how do you find a good bargain? Kyle: Well, unfortunately, the, the bargain finds me more often than It's just like it gets presented to me. They're like, nobody else wants this practice. Do you want it because it's ugly? It's an ugly duckling. But because we've done it so many times, I really can walk in and if, if the chairs, the units, the lights are all functional, the compressor, the vac, all of those things are in good shape, even if I have to recover the chairs.I will look to try to sell them, but I know they're not gonna sell. but I just look at all of the opportunities. I like hygiene. To me, that's one of the biggest telltale signs of a good practice. People brag like, oh my God, I've got two hygienists. And if you want to get, get in and get your teeth cleaned as a new patient, it's gonna take six months.Then it's like, uh oh, CHCH. I can see that I'm going. That's an opportunity. Even if you look at the doctor's schedule, like I said, he's got nothing on his schedules cuz he doesn't want anything on his schedule. You know, there's a lot of things to be done, but he doesn't wanna do 'em. So he is just going, know, with each hygiene appointment, you know, the recare appointment.He's just going, Hey, how you doing? We'll see you in six months, you know? And it's, that happens more often than you think. When the guy is getting really, really close to retirement, he don't wanna do anything anymore. Michael: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So mainly the bargains kind of go to you. What, so then let me ask you, Kyle, what's your area of expertise like right now?Kyle: You mean in the brokerage world? Yeah, Michael: or just like, yeah, what you would, if I were to go to you, what can you help Kyle: me out with? Well, I, I can help you out with a lot of things. I can help you. If you're looking to purchase a practice, I can tell you what to look for. we can help you in your search too.Like if I know somebody wants to be in Austin, Texas, we can send an email blast to everybody in that area. Uh, we do have connections. We've got strategic partners also that have, uh, email addresses and phone numbers of every doc in that area. So we have access to that. We can help them look. We could even go through that office if they needed us to, if we're, if we're in that area, or at least a walkthrough, somebody can walk through with a phone, with a FaceTime.Mm-hmm. And show me what the practice looks like. Show me what the street, the, how busy it is on the road, the signage and everything. I can look at the, look at the books and I can, I can pretty much tell you if it's gonna be a good purchase opportunity or not, and I can look at the trajectory based on. the collections over the last few years, and I can look at the expenses, but also when they're selling the practice, same thing.We've done this so many times, that it's, we can do it in our sleep. Really, hundreds and hundreds of practices over the years. know all of the equipment and how we differ from a lot of brokers. There's a lot of brokers that are accountants attorneys, and they're good with numbers. Don't get me wrong, but they don't know old equipment from new equipment.And because we had 36 practices and a lot of everybody's old equipment over the years, we know what's good and what's not good, you know? that's the way I guess, that we really can help people get started. Uh, we have the bankers that are, uh, very dental friendly. We've got attorneys that are dental friendly.We've got accounting, uh, we've got an accounting, uh, firm that works with just dentists and doctors. We're able to steer like a new grad in the direction they need to go with all the proper professionals. Uh, and, and even getting started themselves. We've got people within my company, my C E O O on the side, will help some of the people get started with checklists of all the things they need to get accomplished.So she'll do that on the side. Just to help people that have never been through the process before, because it is the first time I lost quite a bit of hair the first time. It's a, it's a nerve-wracking thing and you gotta think some of these people have never worked anywhere. Mm-hmm. I mean, they're, they're going straight through school, through high school, undergrad, dental school, and then straight into a job somewhere.And, they may have worked at, uh, McDonald's over a summer sometime, but a lot of them, they've never even done that. Mm-hmm. So they don't know payroll, they don't know personnel, they don't know, purchasing, there's, there's so many different things that you've gotta learn really quick.It's doable. It's just, it's, it's, it's a lot of work. It's a little bit of a stress at, at, at first, uh, till you get started. Nice. Michael: Okay. Okay, man. So I, I appreciate that, that everything you guys do to help out with that like acquisition, to find the place and everything. What are some good purchases then?What are some like things we can be looking out for when it comes to, this is a bargain, this is something good. And then what are some, I guess, Things we need to look out for. That can be tricks. For example, I remember the doctor I worked for here in, um, Paris, California. She had multiple practices, but I can tell like when she brought me on to just market, she's like, I gotta get these numbers up to look good right now.Bring in you pa. And so was she trying to deceive it or, I don't know what was happening. You know what I mean? In that scenario, at that time, Kyle: Well, it's, was she going to sell the practice Michael: to you? No, not to me. She was just gonna sell the practice once I was bringing in new patients.And it's like they, we just gotta make it look like there's a lot. And then I heard, I overheard that with the consultant and I was like, okay, that's why I'm here. then, sure. You Kyle: know what I mean? For ramp up the numbers so that she can get a good sale. That's, that's exactly what you're there for.But, You're getting paid for it too, you know? Mm-hmm. But there's a lot of people, you know, it used to be the $400,000 office. If you put an associate in there, uh, there was no owner operator, just an associate in there. $400,000 was the typical break even point. Uh, but now it's more like $600,000. Uh, the breakeven point after they pay the associate after they pay everything, uh, there's really nothing.So when you go to purchase something like that, the banks don't love, those three to $600,000 practices. They don't like it at all. some of them are still willing to, to loan on that, but you kind of have to have a little proven track record as an associate in order for them to trust you. Like if they can see you're personally.You're generating a a million dollars on your own, then they're gonna feel a little bit more comfort in that. If they see you on a daily basis working as an associate, you can provide some information that shows you know what you're doing. That makes it a little easier. the million dollar practices, the banks will loan on that all day long, but to me it's tougher to grow a million dollar practice into a $2 million practice to double it.Then to take a $600,000 practice and make it 1.2, that's super easy to do that. Hmm. Michael: Talk to me about that. Then. How can we make it for the, cuz we have a lot of listeners who are like not hitting a million yet. Right. Then we have some who are wanting to get to the 2 million, obviously. Right. Right.So how do Kyle: we do that? How do I do it? It's, first of all, like I said, it's advertising external, internal. Having the right equipment. I don't think you need to lead the technology curve. you don't need to be the first in line to buy all the, these toys, but some of the toys as they get a little older, are getting very inexpensive and they still do their job.Like the a Cerac machine from four years ago, I promise you works just fine. It it, you know, there might be something newer and fancier. The older stuff. We put a billion crowns in with the Cerac machine. They work, then they work. Now it's, it's just maybe not the top of the line. It's, uh, so what do we do?We, we keep everything in house. The procedures in house. We're not referring everything out. We work off hours. I used to, in my office, I'd be there seven to three. And at, uh, two 30 I had another doctor come in and he'd work into the evenings, uh, working. Saturdays, Sundays, whatever it takes. If you're in a busy shopping center that's loaded with people on Saturday and Sunday, why wouldn't you have some hours then?I know it's a little bit harder on the doctor, but that's, that's what associates are for. I, I'd put them in there. Then, you know, get some people to wor willing to work some off hours and the numbers will come. They will. Gotcha. Okay. Michael: That's good, man. So then these are the things we wanna look for. When it comes to a good purchase, then if, if we're looking for a bargain.You said, you mentioned before, the specific steps, right? Kyle: Yeah. Well, if you're looking for a bargain, look for something that's only open Monday through Thursday. Old school. Look for something that's just B for service, but it's dying. It's dying on the vine. Look for an office that's, it's just ugly. They haven't put anything in there.They haven't redecorated in 25 years. Old equipment. Uh, don't be afraid of the old stuff. It's paint and flooring and lighting and, uh, digital equipment is just not that expensive. Yeah, if you're gonna buy a CT machine, it's a little bit more expensive, but a used digital pan, it's almost free now because people are putting the cts in.Is, is the CT necessary? Depends what you're doing. If you're placing implants, it'd be nice to have that. but anyway. Yeah. Michael: Okay. And now I, Kyle, I've heard two types, types of things when it comes to startups and acquisitions. I've heard people make startups, right, because meaning like I build it out, right.Um, not even to shell it out, it's just from the ground up. I build it out because I can't find anything that I want in the PO location that I want or something like that. Right. It's my brand. Right, right. And then I've also heard. Someone say, you will always find what you want in an acquisition. You usually need patience and then you run outta patience and then you just decide to make up your own startup.Right? Kyle: Which one? Well, I'll tell you, I, when I first started this, I did new starts all the time cuz it was just easy. Even if I was in a small town somewhere, I'd find a shell do all the building cuz I, I like doing the building anyway. And we, we built ours more like we would, we would take a lot of design ideas from the W Hotel, some really cool stuff, super modern inside, no clutter, uh, as little clutter as possible.Lots of room, high ceilings. Uh, we even like the, the shopping centers with the super high ceilings, exposed beams and plumbing and stuff. Uh, we had great music. Music was part of, uh, what we did. Some really cool, uh, l e d lighting. We didn't do overhead fluorescence ever. Everybody had, in fact, we didn't even have lights on the chairs.Everybody had overhead lights, little headlights. The, uh, assistants, hygienists and doctors all had that stuff. So it was just a very soothing feeling when you walked into our offices. And, uh, it was kind of cool, you know, but, um, getting back to the point. for a new start now it's you're, you're spending at least $500,000 to maybe have two operatories and not have a single patient.and like I said, it's harder. back when I was doing the new start, I would advertise and the day we opened, we'd have at least, half of the office was booked right away. But as I got a little older, it got harder and harder and harder to do. And almost all the time now I buy an existing practice because with, even with as much experience as I have in all of the hookups, I get stuff for very inexpensive compared to a lot of people.so even with all the hookups, it's difficult to do a fresh start. It's, I'm not gonna say it's impossible, but I tried to buy an existing cash flow. Uh, from day one. Michael: Okay. If people were to go with you guys, do we also get to be a part of those hookups Kyle: or, you know, I, I've tried for a long time to get them to pass on the exact prices and they're not willing to, to give those prices, but they certainly will give you better than a rack rate.You know, like if, if you just go in and call, uh, one of the big dental companies. they're gonna give you what they give everybody else. You know, it's a standard rate, what they're gonna give to you. I can get people some discounts. it's definitely gonna be better and I can point 'em in the right direction with, like I said, accounting with banks.Save a little bit of money here and there. But, also people that will help negotiate your fees if they're with PPOs. I've got people that'll do that for you. I've got people that, um, with credit card, that work with credit card processing to give you the best possible rate. We've got lots and lots of people that we can refer to that are professional, that save people money, let's put it that way.Mm-hmm. Michael: Okay, man, that's good stuff. Good stuff. All right, so then these next questions just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side anymore. Right. I know it was like, it's been four years, you said, right? Right. Since you've done this full-time, so from this point, What would you like to see more from a dentist, from your perspective?Kyle: Right. Uh, one thing I miss from the new dentist is there's a lot of younger dentists that I don't see at the big dental meetings anymore. It used to be a thing where you wanted to get some trainings in continuing education, you'd take your whole staff. for instance, we went to L V I. you know, L v I, Las Vegas Institute.Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We'd take the entire staff and we'd learn together and we'd learn to sell together. So it was, when we do, we'd presented a treatment plan. I didn't have to present that treatment plan because I didn't go there by myself, learn by myself. Everybody is presenting it before I even walk in the door.You know, the, the hygienist is, looking in there and going, okay, this is what I think he's gonna propose. This is what I'm think, I think would be great for you, some veneers, whatever it might be. So I'd walk in the room and everything is been laid out before I even walk in. I don't have to sell anything.The patient's basically turning around and going, Hey Doc, I'm gonna get. Uh, veneers is on, uh, you know, tooth number five through 11 or whatever. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it, it's, I still think it's important for the entire team to be involved. Uh, I don't think that's gone away. I see a lot of people getting their continuing education online, and it's not the same as working on a, a pig skull or something, learning how to do.Implants or extractions or whatever. I think it's still, super important to go take lots and lots and lots of continuing education. I think that's the single thing that made me. Able to grow as fast as I did. As we were crazy about ce, we continually, we took every course on the earth and because every time we'd go out there and take a course, we'd come back and we'd make more money.We were more successful. And when the patient looked to us and said, Hey, do you do this procedure? We go, yes, we do. We're not gonna have to send you anywhere. We're gonna do it right here. So, Michael: yeah. Do you think, um, maybe like. The lockdown, COVID kind of had a big push on that, the transition Kyle: where it's like huge, huge.Everybody got kind of, I don't know. They're, they, they were okay with just learning from their computer, learning from their phone, but I will tell you it's not the same. It really isn't. Yeah. Michael: Yeah. I agree. That interaction, that p people to people, right. Also like mm-hmm. Camaraderie and everything like that.It's, it's, it's different. It's whole different. You need that face Kyle: to face. Can I? There's more opportunity in, you know, everyone loves the cities now. Everybody's in the city, city, city, city. everybody wants a practice in the city. Some of the small towns are the best opportunities ever. Now, granted, when you go to sell that practice in the small town, it's more difficult.Uh, but everything is cheaper during, uh, if you bought something in a small town right now, All of your labor is cheaper, your supplies are gonna be the same, but you're, it, it's a little bit harder to find a doctor to work there, the associate doctors to go into small towns, it's really difficult. But if you do get somebody, maybe you give that doctor, um, an opportunity to buy in.He's got some skin in the game, then probably he's not gonna leave. those small towns, you can still kill it relatively quickly because you just don't have that much competition, you Michael: know? Yeah. That's interesting you say that. Like I, I just got off the, an interview with a, a doctor in a rural area and he was saying how like a patient got upset and then. I asked like, oh, what are you go, did they leave? Do they immediately go? He's like, no, the closest person is three hours. They, they have no other option but to come to me. You know, so that's right. They have that pow or not power, but like, you know what I Kyle: mean? Right. But, and, and the other thing is it, it was easy for me to go into small towns because when I would do, when I would renovate an office there in the small towns, There was no dental office that looked like ours.None. Mm-hmm. So people would be blown away when they'd come in and they'd, they'd immediately get on their phones and take pictures and send it to all their friends and, yeah. So it's, uh, it looked like a club in there really. I mean, it was very, We'd have stone walls and all the operatories with, um, a nice, uh, l e d light on it.And the music was good. And it was just like people would come and hang out. They just wanted to be there, you know? Yeah. Michael: That's nice. That's, that's what you wanna like, kind of make a atmosphere like that. That's right. Right, right. Now Kyle, what do you really dislike or hate about dentistry? Kyle: What do I hate about it?Well, obviously the lack of ability to get employees right now, especially hygienist, I think is a, is a nationwide problem. Right. Uh, and the dentistry used to be amazing. Like to make a living out of dentistry, you really didn't have to do much. I mean, when I first graduated, it was a four day work week. and you really, you could refer things out.Uh, anything that you didn't wanna do, just refer it out. there were lots of things that were just a lot easier. Um, so things are, not only are they way more expensive, and I will tell you that the profit margin used to be fantastic in dentistry. Mm-hmm. And you can make a lot of mistakes. It can still be fine, but now you've got to, you've gotta make less mistakes.You've gotta be, you have to have a little bit more financial knowledge now. Now it doesn't, it's not good enough to be a good dentist. You've gotta be a little bit of a businessman too, and a little bit of a salesperson. I know it's a, sales is a dirty word and the, and the, in the dental business, but you are, you're selling cases, you're not, everybody needs veneers.Very few people need them. A lot of people want them, but, um, it's changed a little bit. It's just a little bit more difficult, I guess. It's still a good living. It's still a great job. It's, we just had it maybe the best ever. You know, I think we graduated might have been the best, uh, 20 years ever.Really? Michael: Yeah. Okay. Nice. And then, so right now, what do you love about Kyle: dentistry? what I love about dentistry. There's some things that are pretty cool, like the artificial intelligence that's reading x-rays now, okay? If, if you took bite wings and somebody had several, incipient lesions, some of them were into the dentons, some were close.If you gave those x-rays to 10 different dentists, you're gonna get 10 different answers of what needs to be done, right? But now they've got some artificial intelligence that's reading X-rays and it's gonna be more consistent, I think. I think the, uh, everything is getting easier. Implants, everybody's trained on implants now.Mm-hmm. Uh, they've even got some robotics. Like even if you're not trained, you can have a hands across the different part of a world, guiding you and, and, and doing, uh, implants. So the technology's really cool. I think that, that the education is better than it's ever been. so there's a lot of good things in dentistry.It's financially, it's a little bit more difficult, but there are some really, really interesting technological things that are gonna make dentistry easier and better. You're gonna become a better dentist. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And things can be done on the spot. They're gonna mill that crowd on the spot. Yes.They've been doing that for a long time. But hopefully everything gets just a little bit faster and, uh, you're able to insert it, cement it, be done with it that day so people don't have to keep coming back. Yeah, Michael: yeah. No, yeah, you're right. Convenience, right? Well, the AI software, you're talking Kyle: about's gotten so much easier.Ortho's gotten easier. You can do six miles Invisalign. Uh, there's so many of the things that used to be left to the specialist and now the general dentist can do it. But the general dentist kind of has to do some of those things just to keep stuff in house anyway. So you have to do those things, but at least they're making it easier for you to do them.Gotcha. Michael: Is there any specific company you've seen recommend when it comes to that type of software, like AI software? Kyle: No, actually I don't, I, one of my friends sells it, and I can't even tell you the name of her company off the top of my head. She was just telling me all about it, and I'm just like, I think it's the greatest thing ever because it is true.Like I'll have associates come in and they'll diagnose completely different than me. Anytime I see that little lesion getting just about touching the entin, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and, and put it as something that I'd need to restore because. Usually when I get in there, it's deeper than it looks on the x-ray.so I would rather err to side of caution and get that done and not be the guy that missed it. but I would love to see people, diagnosing the same, uh, all across the board, you know? Mm-hmm. Michael: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. So then any final piece of advice? Or suggestions or recommendations you want to give to people who are looking to either do their own practice acquisition or startup?Kyle: Yeah, I guess don't look too early because people will come to me and they're, you know, they're a year from graduating. They're like, Hey, I wanna start looking at dental offices. And I tell 'em, there's no reason to look at them right now. I mean, The doctor's not gonna wanna show you if you're a year out.Uh, and I'm not really, cuz you know, you're competing against a lot of people that wanna buy this office. So take your time a little bit. Study up on it though. Learn. You've gotta read a little bit about if you've never managed people before, what you can say to people, what you can do, because it's, um, there is a learning process to all of that.It's, uh, identify? All the people that you're gonna use for accounting, payroll? there's a lot of things that you need to start thinking about. Who's gonna, who's gonna handle this for me? know what type of office you're gonna have. what are you gonna, what do you want to not specialize in, but what do you want to make it your thing?I think it's a, it's good for every office to identify one particular part of dentistry. Where it's their thing. and I'll give you an example. Some people like dentures. Most dentists hate it. But if you could get really, really good at dentures, be quick with them. They stay in the person's mouth even sometimes without, an implant to latch onto you keep, became really good at, dentures.You'd have business forever because doctors would be sending you that stuff here. I got a denture, I don't wanna deal with it. Take it. there's so many dentists I know that haven't done a denture since they graduated, so take it, make it your own. And, um, you know, I think that's one of the most important things that they need to be thinking about.Michael: Nice. Okay. So I feel like you lived a lot in the sense of like, there's a lot that you've done, right? So, When it comes down to it, man, like just out of, I'm just curious, out of my own, you know, being nosy. what are some things where you're like, man, I should have avoided this. This is what hit us hard.This is what made me go the extra mile. What are some things that were Kyle: like that? Well, I, I got cocky in, in, I had my ass handed to me a few times. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on here, but, uh, I'm like, I'd go into a busy area where there was a lot of dentists, but I. A great new building opened up.It was not a dental building or something. I wanted to make it, my building. There was a lot of traffic there and I said, oh, I can do this. And it's, it just got harder. I, it just, um, there are some surprises out there. And if you're not careful, then you get caught with cash calls. You know, you may have purchased a practice already, but whoever's doing your payroll goes, uh, doctor, um, we don't have enough money in the account this month.do you, can you write me a personal check? And, uh, that stuff will wake you up in a, in a hurry. So I made a few errors getting too cocky, uh, for my own good thinking, I can handle anything. I'll tell you one of the, in order for the associates to make an office good in a lot of places, they have to immerse themselves in the community.You can't just expect patients to fall out of the sky. you have to have a business card when you are out for lunch. If they see you in scrubs or whatever, Hey, what do you do for a living? I'm a dentist. Oh, I need a dentist. Boom, you've got your card, you're handing it out. And we would try to go out to lunch as a team often, and get the word out that we're here.And I try to get a lot of associates to go to fundraisers to make them, you know, go to the local church, go to this, go to that. And they, most of the time they can't be bothered to, to do any of that stuff. But I, I will say that don't expect patients to fall out of the sky in, in that particular case, you know, it's, you've gotta work on it yourself.so I've learned a lot over the years. Don't buy a mobile unit unless you're really prepared and you've thought it out. Cause that was a disaster and we lost a lot of money on that one. so other than that, it's, um, fortunately we've been very, very successful and there's been very few places that we got caught on cash calls.I will say it's, it happens more than it ever has. But it's, it's not fun to go through. So just, just be careful and watch every dollar. Don't listen to the salespeople that come and they try to sell you this and that, and just get the very basics. If you can buy used equipment, you can buy 20 year old chairs and recover them, and the patient will never know.They'll think they're brand new chairs, so anything you can buy that's in great working shape, there are spare parts for that stuff. Buy 'em. You don't need to buy all brand new stuff, buy stuff with a good warranty. Mm-hmm. Michael: Good. Hey, that's good. Awesome. Kyle, thank you so much for being with us, man. It's been a pleasure.But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Kyle: Yes. We're at, uh, our website is encompass ihc.com. Inter integrated healthcare ihc.com. Also they can find me. It's, uh, Dr. Kyle Roth on Instagram. Uh, it's just Kyle Roth on Facebook. We're on LinkedIn. We're, we're everywhere on social media, but Instagram's the best place to keep up with us.It's just Dr. Kyle, k y l e Roth, or o t h, our website. But, uh, Instagram is where it's going, where it's, you know, there's stuff going on there all the time. We do helpful videos for new grads. For people that are selling. Uh, we do fun stuff. We travel around the country. I've got an entire marketing team in Tiana Albania that helps me out with a lot.so they'll be communicating with you if you need anything. They help out a lot. A lot Cool people. I've met a lot of the, uh, dentists over there in Albania too, and they're actually getting involved with us too now. So it, it's pretty cool. We've got a lot of strategic partners and also. If any of your, viewers have, uh, they know a dentist that's getting ready to sell, we pay really handsome referral fees.Uh, if they send us that information, they tee it up for us an introduction, and we sell that practice. We, we pay a really, really nice referral fee. So there's that. Nice. Michael: Okay. So guys, as you know, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. So check it out. And Kyle, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon.Kyle: It's been a lot of fun.‍

‍Welcome to today's MMM! In this episode, I'm exploring how ChatGPT, the cutting-edge language model, can revolutionize your dental practice's content strategy and competition analysis. I'm diving into the world of AI-powered curation and discovering how ChatGPT can curate a comprehensive content plan tailored to your practice's unique needs, ensuring engaging and informative materials for your audience. I'll be walking through it with you step by step, with the prompts I've been using for ChatGPT, and the detailed output it provides! With this tool, you can hone in on exactly what your competition is excelling at, and how you can gain a competitive edge in attracting new patients.‍Tune in to unlock the potential of AI in mapping out your dental practice's success!‍Other Mentions and Links:ChatGPTYelp‍Prompts that I use in the video:‍PROMPT:"How can a dental practice effectively use social media to attract new patients?"‍What ChatGPT said:Social media is a powerful tool for businesses, including dental practices, to attract new patients. Here are some strategies you can use:Educational Content: People are always looking for trustworthy advice online. Create and share educational content related to dental health on your social media profiles. This could be in the form of blog posts, infographics, or short videos. For example, you can post about the importance of regular dental checkups, how to brush properly, or what to do in case of a dental emergency.Promotions and Special Offers: Social media is a great platform for announcing special promotions, discounts, or offers. This can incentivize potential patients to choose your practice over others.Patient Testimonials: Sharing patient testimonials can help build trust and credibility. Always get permission from your patients before sharing their stories online.Before-and-After Photos: Showcasing the results of your dental procedures can be very impactful. Make sure you get consent from your patients before posting their photos. Also, ensure you comply with all relevant healthcare privacy laws.Local SEO: Use location tags in your posts to improve local search engine optimization (SEO). This can help people in your area find your practice more easily.Engagement: Engage with your followers. Respond to their comments and messages in a timely and professional manner. You can also run contests or ask dental-related questions to increase engagement.Consistency: Consistency is key on social media. Post regularly and maintain a consistent brand voice across all your platforms.Paid Advertising: Consider using paid social media advertising. Both Facebook and Instagram offer targeted advertising options that can help you reach potential patients in your area.Collaboration: Collaborate with other local businesses or influencers for mutual promotion. This can help you reach a wider audience.Professionalism: Despite the informal nature of social media, it's important to maintain a professional image. This includes being mindful of your responses to comments and messages, as well as the content you share.Remember, social media is about building relationships. It can take time to see results, so be patient and persistent.‍PROMPT:Provide for me content ideas that implements each of these points. My dental practice name is "Dr. Tooth". This will be for Instagram. Provide 30 unique, engaging content ideas that I can use for 30 pieces of Instagram posts.‍What ChatGPT said:Absolutely, here are 30 Instagram post ideas for "Dr. Tooth", each aligning with the strategies mentioned:Educational Content: Post a carousel breaking down the correct brushing technique with graphics and step-by-step instructions.Promotions and Special Offers: Announce a "New Patient Special" offering discounted first visit for all new patients.Patient Testimonials: Share a video testimonial from a patient who had a great experience at Dr. Tooth.Before-and-After Photos: Show a before-and-after photo of a patient who had a successful teeth whitening procedure.Local SEO: Post a beautiful photo of your clinic with the location tagged, inviting people to visit Dr. Tooth.Engagement: Post a trivia question about dental health and encourage followers to answer in the comments.Consistency: Share a fun fact about teeth or dental health every Monday for "Molar Monday".Paid Advertising: Post a professionally taken photo of your clinic with a warm, inviting caption promoting Dr. Tooth, then boost this post.Collaboration: Share a post from a local health food store that ties into dental health, tagging them and promoting mutual businesses.Professionalism: Share a team photo of your staff at Dr. Tooth, showcasing the friendly and professional team that patients will meet.Educational Content: Create a short, informative video about the dangers of gum disease and how to prevent it.Promotions and Special Offers: Announce a "Toothsday Tuesday" discount where all checkups on Tuesdays are at a reduced rate.Patient Testimonials: Share a quote from a patient who expresses gratitude for the fear-free dental experience at Dr. Tooth.Before-and-After Photos: Share before-and-after photos of a patient who had orthodontic treatment.Local SEO: Share a photo of a local landmark with a caption about loving the community you serve.Engagement: Run a photo contest asking patients to share their brightest smile, with the winner getting a free cleaning.Consistency: Post a gentle reminder every Friday for parents to check their children's brushing habits as part of "Flossy Friday".Paid Advertising: Promote a post about a particular service you offer, like dental implants, targeting individuals aged 40-60 in your local area.Collaboration: Post a shared promotion with a local gym, where their members get a discount at Dr. Tooth and vice versa.Professionalism: Share a behind-the-scenes photo of your clinic, showcasing the cleanliness and state-of-the-art equipment.Educational Content: Share a fun infographic about the anatomy of a tooth.Promotions and Special Offers: Announce a "Whitening Wednesday" where teeth whitening procedures are discounted.Patient Testimonials: Share a handwritten thank-you note received from a patient.Before-and-After Photos: Show a transformation of a patient who had veneers done at Dr. Tooth.Local SEO: Post a photo of the sunrise or sunset in your city, with a caption about the early/late hours you offer at Dr. Tooth.Engagement: Post a poll asking followers if they prefer electric or manual toothbrushes, and then share the results.Consistency: Share a picture of a healthy snack every Saturday and explain why it's good for dental health as part of "Snack Saturday".Paid Advertising: Create a sponsored post targeting parents, emphasizing the kid-friendly environment at Dr. Tooth and your expertise in pediatric dentistry.Collaboration: Share a picture of a healthy meal from a local restaurant, and explain how the ingredients promote good dental health.Professionalism: Post a picture of a dental conference or seminar attended by the Dr. Tooth team, highlighting your commitment to continual learning and staying updated in the field.Educational Content: Post a carousel explaining the process of a root canal treatment and debunking common myths around it.Promotions and Special Offers: Announce a "Senior Sunday" discount, where seniors get a special discount on all treatments every Sunday.Patient Testimonials: Share a video of a patient expressing how a cosmetic dental procedure at Dr. Tooth improved their confidence.Before-and-After Photos: Showcase a before-and-after case of a successful dental bridge procedure.Local SEO: Share a picture of your team participating in a local community event or charity.Engagement: Run a fun quiz about dental history or famous people's teeth, asking followers to comment their answers.Consistency: Post a motivational quote every Monday to kickstart the week on a positive note, including a subtle reminder about oral hygiene.Paid Advertising: Run a sponsored post featuring your painless tooth extraction service, targeting people with dental anxiety.Collaboration: Arrange a live session with a local nutritionist, discussing the best foods for dental health.Professionalism: Share a post on World Dentist Day, expressing gratitude for your team and dedication to your patients.Remember, the key to social media success is consistency, engagement, and providing value. Rotate between these different types of posts to keep your feed interesting and engaging.‍PROMPT:Give me copy for each of these post on Instagram.‍What ChatGPT said:Absolutely, here's a draft for each post:‍June 1 - Educational Content: "Swipe left to discover the perfect brushing technique!

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: April LeePractice Name: Flash DentspaCheck out April's Media:Website: https://www.flashdentspa.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flashdentspa/Email: info@flashdentspa.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:University of Pittsburgh School of Dental MedicineSBA LoanJim CarreyExcite Real EstateBank of AmericaChaseWells FargoOpen DentalKasperYapiDr. Kareem OsmanPatientPopEnergize MarketingMorpheus 8IndeedProfit First‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Spending limits on bank loans can sometimes be a good thing. This may help you keep on track and not overspend in some areas!Offering incentives to other local businesses and the customers they send your way is a great way to bring in new patients!Having staff that LOVE being there is when you know your team culture is on track.Always show support and relatability to your staff and associates. They are people too, so they appreciate the personability!Make sure to read into contract terms, especially regarding termination, so you don't get stuck with a contractor you'd rather not work with!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: April. How's it going? Hi. April: Good. How are you doing? Thanks for having me. Michael: No, thank you for being on. We were talking a little bit before those balloons in your background have been holding up for how long? Like a month and a half?Yeah. How much did those cost?April: Uh, I bartered. Michael: Break it down at me. What'd you do in order to get that? April: I gave free whitening and I asked the balloon girl to do that for me. Michael: Did you know her beforehand or no? April: No, but she told me she did balloons and I was like, Hey, I'm having a grand opening. I don't have money, but I can do this for you.Michael: Yeah, normally. Okay, so. You went in there, asked her, or how did that work out? Like did you just ground mark it? What'd you do? Oh, April: she was a patient, um, she just scheduled a cleaning with me and, uh, she was like, I got charged $3,000 for a cleaning. And I was like, you're like, Young, like, you don't need this.Maybe like you have a little gingivitis. And I was like, yeah, we'll just do this simple cleaning. And then, she said, oh, do you know anybody who needs balloons? And I was like, oh, like what do you do? And she was like, oh, my side gig. I do like balloon for events and I'm, it's hard to give up cuz it's really good money.And I was like, Great, then. Yes. Me. Michael: Yeah. Cause they're nice and they're still holding up, you know what I mean? So you just had your opening a month ago, month and a half ago. A month and a half ago. All right. So we'll dive into that in a little bit. But before that, tell us about your past, your present.How'd you get to where you are today? April: Uh, I've been through a lot of interesting routes. So I graduated in 2017. And then I worked for a corporation. I went to Houston. So I graduated from Pittsburgh. I went to Houston, worked for a corporation. It was a chaos. And then a week after I moved, hurricane Harvey hit Houston.Yeah. So, uh, I walked into an office where there was no office manager. Uh, I had two assistants who were interns and then front desk, she quit that day. Treatment corner quit that day. because we had 40 patients. I'm a new grad and I had a molar root canal, and they put me with two interns and no manager.So I was like, I, this is horrible. Like I can't do this. And Hurricane Harvey, I took a break for like a week, um, trapped in the house. And just crying every day for a little while and I was like, yeah, this is not something that I signed up for. I don't think anybody goes to dental school to be like, I wanna war for corporation.Sounds awesome. But it's really honestly the only place they'll actually hire new grads. So I went in, dove in and decided that I. Have to be independent. So that's when I started looking at turnkey. I started asking around to see if there's anybody selling the office. And I was, um, I'm a big like. Believer in God and I was praying and fasting.Um, I think Ramadan's going on today, but um, I am a Christian and I still fast and pray, uh, just because part of being able to stay focused on God and I had a picture of my business partner. And so I reached her out on Facebook. I said, Hey, like, I don't really know you, but you were in my picture. So, can you meet?Uh, I know you graduated a year before me. We happened to go to same dental school. So she's like, sure. And then we met, and then I said, do you wanna open up an office? And she's like, no, not really for, like, maybe I'll wait two years. I'm not ready for it. And I was like, well, what if I tell you that I'm, I know how to do like the beginning stuff right now, and if we get an office, maybe we can get it together.And she's like, well, I'm not ready for it. But I, I'm open and finally found an office, someone that I work for called, like it was a connection through a connection. And then she called from Boston and um, she said, oh yeah, I'm like selling an office. I'm visiting Boston, but I actually live in Seattle and this office has been open for a year.And um, I said, Hey to my partner, Hey, do you wanna come, um, check out this office? Cause they're selling, it's only been a year open. And then we went visited, we met the doctor who owns it. she had to move because family issues. And when we bought it, we bought it in like we did the SBA loan. Cause you can't do a startup loan with them.So the only way that you could do is SBA loan. We did that and purchased a practice, started nine months out of dental school and did a partnership practice acquisition. And, um, first three months, obviously it's just like new learning stuff. Uh, we didn't have any staff we hired the first day. They all, what happened was the doctor who was in there as an associate beforehand, he was trying to buy it, but his credit wasn't good enough to get approved.So when he realized that he wasn't good enough to get approved to purchase a practice, he told the entire staff, I'm leaving. You guys need to quit because this is getting sold. And the doctor freaked out because they all quit the next day with the patients on the schedule and she had to do a red eye flight in.And we came in to just like be an assistant for her and. You know, just help her out. She had to put indeed like, can you somebody help me today? And we were hiring that day, same day the doctor was working, we're all working. And that's how it started with the first day in our new office. And, um, is hard because You really have to trust that other person. And we really had an amazing partnership of that trust. I worked two days, she worked two days, and then we both, um, worked at different places just to make our income so that we're not losing money in our office. we paid ourselves like a normal salary, like daily guarantee that other doctors would, and.After a while, I've always had a heart to grow the office, but when you're not on the same page, after about three years, me constantly pushing to say, Hey, can we grow to another office? And the other partner is not ready, then like, then I have to branch out. Mm-hmm. So when I decided that I'm going to probably be closer to my family.My family's in Florida, and then. Sell that office and start something new or keep the office, but it ended up being that I had to sell the office and move here last minute because of the whole purchasing this office and signing the lease and everything, and I couldn't do it remote anymore. Hmm. Yep. So I had a dream back in 2020 and it was like a really crazy dream.all you dreamers out there like dreams mean so many different things and some dreams you cannot forget. And this dream was, I was eating, it's just so funny. Um, I was hanging out and I saw Jim Carey and I was like, Jim Carey, like, what are you doing by yourself? You're like, really famous. Like, you're h here eating by yourself.And um, he was like, oh, no one wants to come and eat with me. And I was like, well, I'll come hang out with you. Like you're my, one of my favorite comedians. And, um, I'm just sitting there chit chatting with him in the dream. And he said, uh, yeah. Here if you have any questions, here's my phone number. And he gave me his phone number.This was May 15th, 20, right at the brink of Covid. And I woke up and I was like, what is this phone number? I was like, what is this area code? Oh, I remember the area code is 7 27. And then I look it up, I was like, 7 27 area code. And it was St. Pete. And I was like, where's that? And um, I was like, oh, it's kind of close to Tampa.It's like in Florida. What, how convenient, are the odds? And, um, I said, oh, well, Jim Carey, Florida. I just looked it up. And then boom, like May 16th, 17th was the first day he had an opening for his gallery at Ocean Gallery down SAP Beach right here. and I was like, oh, that's weird. Like, well, that's just weird, right?Mm-hmm. And, And then, so I was just like going on roaming out through the day, just kind of shocked by that dream and just walking around the park to, uh, quarantine myself from everybody else. And, I already told you, I'm a big believer in God. that 7 27, it was like written in red, which is like Jesus wrote and read in the Bible.And like when he spoke, it was always in red. And then Jim Carey initials same as Jesus Christ initials. And also he had a YouTube video that told a story about him being an artist. And he also drew a face of Jesus in the video. And I'm just like shocked by every little moment and my little crazy self still trying to like suppress it because I wasn't ready to sell my office.Then a broker called me out of nowhere from Orlando and she said, Hey, are you looking to find an office? And I was like, no, not over there. And um, I was like, how did you even get my information? And he said, oh, uh, I don't know. It's in our directories. So I realized that they're also a branch of Texas, uh, brokers and they did our first branch in.Orlando, and I've actually never reached out to them, but they happen to have my phone number and they said, um, yeah, uh, where do you wanna look? And I said, Tampa, I'm open to it. It's like a city. And then two months in, they said, Hey, are you open to going to St. Pete? Because it's really hard to find a location in Tampa.And I was like, well, Honestly, if it weren't for that dream, I probably would've said no. But because of that dream, like, fine, you can start walking. And when, um, they started looking and, uh, found a location, it was all the signs matched up. So I decided to sign and then bill this office. Michael: And now you're in the office?Yep. Okay. We'll, we'll jump into the bailout process, but let's rewind a little bit. You were in Houston and you worked as an associateship in Houston or an associate at Houston? April: So I was a partner of the business that I owned in Houston. Michael: Yes. Oh, what part of Houston or where? So, um, April: we were in Cypress, Texas.Okay. And, uh, so my bi, my business partner and I bought it together and then decided to form a partnership. we created an LLC together with our both separate LLCs. It just makes it a lot easier to keep things together so that the assets. When something happens, it doesn't hit our personal assets like that.It has to go through a company corporation that owns office. Then the other LLC that hits our DMD corporation. Then it can get our assets. So we just wanted the, that safety there. Mm-hmm. So we decided to do that and then had it for four and a half, five years. Michael: Oh, wow. Why, if you can give us some points of why it didn't work out.I mean, uh, there's, the trust is still there. I'm assuming you guys are April: still friends, right? Oh, yeah, definitely. I love her so much. Um, kind of because I signed this office and then I knew I had to go to Florida and last minute I told her, I was like, this buildup process has been so crazy that I was like, I gotta go.And then she's like, what? And then I was like, yeah, uh, I kinda literally have to go and like, Two weeks. So I handed her over and I said can you take care of it? And she was like, it was really sad cause she was crying. I was crying because she's like, it feels like we're getting through a divorce. And I was like, I know.It really is. It really, it really is because like works through such hard times together. The way that she took me on board with Oh gosh. Like she has such a big heart. Like what actually happened was I was a new grad, right? And she's already practiced a year ahead of me. When you do an S B A loan, they require you to have certain months of statement that you have enough money in your bank account to give you that loan.And my bank account was super fresh with money coming in because I was a new grad. And, um, these, this money that's sitting in there has to be proven like four months of it not changing the status. Like you're not getting money randomly gifted to you or anything like that. And I didn't have that status because I would just graduated and that made, the bank, made it so hard that I can't be on to buy this practice.But she and her husband, he had stocks that he owned. and stocks can be liquidated really quickly. And they had money cuz she's been graduated for like over a year and then, um, and it's like crude in there, it's not really been, hasn't been moving. And last minute I showed her, I was like, Hey, I only have like $32,000 in my bank account right now.They need $30,000 down for me to start. It was like a 10% of what the practice was gonna cost for us to buy. And bank was like, we're not taking that money cuz it's too fresh. Like we don't have records of like, Four months of it being stable in there and hasn't changed. And so what she and her husband ended up doing was, well, we got a wire this last minute.Like we have two days to do this and I'm trying to get gifts from my parents to get like the money or something. Cuz that's the only way that they'll allow me to have the money. Mm-hmm. If, if a gift and then you don't return it back. So she ended up just putting all that money, they liquidated it gifted to me, and then we put $60,000 down to start and they had that much trust to like the husband sold his stocks to do that for me.Mm-hmm. And like that's a whole nother level of like trusting somebody who just randomly Facebook messaged you. and then, I mean, they knew, I was like, I have this money. I just like, They're not taking it. So obviously I wire them back to them afterwards. Um, and that's how we got started. Michael: Okay. That's good.So then, I know you said you wanted to grow, but she wasn't ready. April: She said it was too much of a headache. Michael: Talk to talk to me about that. Why, why did you want to grow? Was there a. Does she want to just, um, I guess hyper focus on the current practice that she had and then build it, maybe drop insurance, all that stuff?Or was it more like you were just like, all right, we're, let's just keep going. Let's go do another one. Another one. And is that like your future too with this one? Yep. April: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. This, um, I finally think I've kind of solidified some of the reasons why I'm doing it. Um, I did wanna grow. I was like, Hey, can we grow to like 10 offices?And she's like, one's a lot. And she, she is like, I'm a little bit older than you. She's like four years older than me. She's like, it's a lot. she's more of an introverted personality, extrovert, but at the same time, didn't have like the A D H D, like hyper personality like I do. So like I have a lot of energy roaming around all day long.So she was like, I can't, like, This one office is enough. Mm-hmm. So, and I'm over here going like, I want like 20. So that just kind of didn't really settle with, um, that's when I, I had to, we had to realize, I was like, Hey, eventually I'll probably end up branching out or like giving, letting you take care of this entire office by yourself.Michael: Gotcha. So do you still own, uh, part or are you still a partner with the other practice or? No, it's a hu hundred percent hers. That's hers now. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So then you decided, uh, let me ask you a question real quick. You said you spoke with the branch of brokers in Texas. Who are they? Uh, ex excite.Ex excite. Okay. They have a branch now in Florida. April: Orlando Uhhuh? Mm-hmm. Michael: Okay. Okay. How is it working with him? Um, April: well, the guy that I work with, he got fired, but he ended up finding my awesome space. And I was like, so that transition after he found it was like perfect. But then like that transition after was like an issue and I was like, there was a lot, what was the issue?Um, they didn't get the address right. So permitting was a little bit, I got a different address after I finished permitting. Ah, gotcha. Michael: Okay. So let, let's dive into that a little bit. Let's dive into your business like, You went with who? For a loan? April: I did Bank of America. Michael: Okay. What were the terms of that loan?April: Um, I got approved I think like $550,000. And um, I, it's like, cuz during the approval, like I still had my other office, so like they couldn't approve me for a lot because of my. guarantor part of the other office. So that's what I got so I got that loan May, 2021 and I, uh, maybe right before, but now I opened this December, 2022.Like that's how long of this buildout was, like the whole journey of itself. Um, So they told me that I just have to do like two years of just letting them see every monthly and then try to make sure I'm not failing. Mm-hmm. And also, Wells Fargo was another one that, um, I was just thinking about. Chase doesn't do startup loans, but Wells Fargo does startup loans and right when I was going between Bank of America and Wells Fargo, Wells Fargo got a lawsuit.For fraud. So I was like, well, I guess I'll go with Bank of America cuz I don't wanna really go with a bank that got, uh, lawsuit. So I just black and white. I'm a very black and white person, so I just chose Blink of America. my interest rate was pretty low. It was during Covid, so it was very low at that time, just like houses were really low.except. The whole construction part took like extremely long time. So, but I love Bank of America. Um, my guy was really great and the reason, my biggest thing I love about Bank of America was they didn't let me spend money on some of these areas that I was wanting to spend money. And it was like the biggest blessing that you can think of.Sounds weird, but they wanna make sure that they protect you from just being, sorry. Like women, we shop more than I think men. stereotypical thing, I think, don't quote me on it, but I do see a lot of women shopping a lot more and men are sitting outside, um, waiting until they're done. Um, that's how my dad did.But then when you're on a kick to spend and you're like, yeah, I bought this, bought this, and I do it myself, right? I'm like on a kick to buy Christmas presents and all of a sudden I'm spending without filtering. I, I act like I have all the money in the world, and then I spend, and then no one stopped me.Mm-hmm. But when you're on a kick to keep spending, then like Bank of America is like that. Husband's like, stop, like. No, no, like that's not a good spending, right? They're like, why are you spending this? They ask me these questions and some people have a personality of like, oh, don't ask me why I'm doing this.I'm independent. I'm on my own, like, Um, they know what they're doing. They've done this many times and they know probably why dentists, most of 'em don't go to business school and most of them like to spend and, um, we see shiny pretty things and we like it and we wanna spend it. So they put that stop on me and.They still allowed me to spend it in ways that I really needed things. So they'll just like shift the money around saying like, this is how much you can spend here. We can allocate this here and, and that will be actually good for, me able to just not overspend and then spend all my loans. Then I have to spend it out of my cash.Michael: Gotcha. So you like that, you like it when they were there telling did you go on and you're, you're kind of right. Like even I'm guilty of that. Like I'll be good at like saving and then when for some reason if I'm on a kick, I can, anybody can just, Michael, you got it. Right. What is up with that? So, uh, let me ask you, your build out, how much was that?April: My buildout was start, it started at three 10 and then it ended at. Probably, I wanna say like three 50. Okay. Michael: Talk to me about your buildout process. How, how did that go? April: Oh, it was hell. Michael: Why April: contractors don't have this thing called, Calendar. So they move it at their own free space on, I was just like, wow, like we're always on a time and dentist or like, let's get this done out, done out.we're very efficient people. Cause that's how in the clinic we are. But uh, like. I'm sure who, everybody who's renovated a house or part of whatever construction you've ever went through, know that contractors don't have a calendar. So that's the same in a dental space or a commercial space. So I kind of went through quite a bit of hell with, um, three of the contractors dropped me when I first started, so I was doing this in.Houston and I had a designer, um, their, my designer was awesome and he was getting, like, I had three contractors who I was negotiating with, and then two of 'em were non-dental and they're like, yeah, we can do it. And um, later on, one of 'em dropped me and then the other one, she was like, yeah, we can do it.And then the other guy was a dental contractor. Uh, he quoted me a lot higher, so I was a little bit hesitant. But then also he, one, he said he was gonna do the engineering and architect with his team cuz he has a whole team. Um, he doesn't have to hire an independent contractor. And then he said he was gonna do it two weeks later.my designer's like, Hey, have you heard back that if you got your engineering back? And I was like, no, not yet. I'll just give it a little bit more time. And then two weeks after, he's like, Hey, we should have heard this by now. And so I reached out to him and he's like, oh, well, because I know that you were negotiating with other contractors.I quit that process. And he tell me, and he's like, I only wanna do this if you're gonna work with me. and my designer got really mad. He was like, what the heck? He wasted a month of your time and didn't tell you. And he's like, go look for a different contractor and work with him.Found out that one of 'em that I was working with, uh, the guy who I was mainly working with got fired and she got fired and then they quoted me three times higher. At the end when they did the engineering, they hired an independent contractor for, uh, engineering. And then they were like, yeah, this is gonna be like three times more than what we initially quoted you.So that's when I was like, I've wasted so much of my time, my lease and loan. I mean lease is like the free lease is almost done, and then I have to get up and I have, I told my partner, I was like, Hey, I actually think I have to be there in person and get this going because it's been like four or five months that I've just been sitting here and not been able to do anything.So, I have to go. So that's how we had to part ways. And I had to look for a job within two weeks. Um, and I got a job last minute. Some like they needed, um, a corporation. It's a pretty good corporation actually. It's like more, it's a doctor owned and they took me on and then, I moved, I got an apartment.And this all like happened flip Floop in two weeks. Mm-hmm. I got here and started looking for like people who are dentists and said, how did you build yours out? Who's your contractor? I found a contractor, Florida's really old school, and so there's not a lot of like little like. Details to like a contract.So when I showed that to my designer, he was like, yeah, this is like not safe. Okay. So we, I hired a consultant, like a, he's also a contractor in Houston who built one of my friend's office. He consulted with my contractor and read, did the, redid the contract. Mm-hmm. Then, um, that took a while because they were not, Communicating efficiently.Cuz my Florida contractor's pretty old school. So he's like, yeah, it's just over here. And then nothing in detail really. So he's like, this is not great. So then they ended up, you know, making it a more detailed and he's a good guy. So I had known that, I would probably jump with him from the beginning.But you just met that person you don't know, you know? Mm-hmm. So I wanted to protect myself and be safe through everything. Got, I signed a contract with a contractor and then the permitting took five months. It took four. Wow. Yeah. So all this time my free lease is going and um, and now I have to pay rent and I had to talk to the landlord saying, Hey, like, I literally haven't even broke ground in this place yet.So, you know, they still, it's business, right? They still need money. So I decided to take it out of my TI money for the loan. Mm-hmm. Because I am very anti taking out my own money to run a business. That's not what my undergrad business classes has taught me. They said, use other people's money to run the business and don't take off your arm and a leg to run it.so that's why I try to stay within the amount Bank of America gave me and not have to cash out my own money. in the end I'm the one taking the toll and losing that. so. I took it out of my TI money. Obviously had to learn how to budget really well at that point. So I equipped five op ops, like all ready to go.And usually I think startups, they start at like two and then build more out. Mm-hmm. But I also had a hard time from my start, um, my first acquisition. That we were equipped for three, and every time we tried to equip for four, it was like a big block that we couldn't get past because it was like, it would have to stop our working day and we would have people coming in doing construction, and it was too much of a headache and I didn't want any of those blocks and then if I was gonna grow, so I decided to just equip all five and then try to budget it and make it work.Michael: So there's a lot going on. You mentioned, um, you hired a consultant, what was his name? Tim Nelson. Tim Nelson. And he's a contractor? April: Yeah. He builds offices in Houston, Texas. And he is, Seriously like a dad and he cares so much about me. Obviously it costs, but it's worth it, especially when I'm having a meltdown and not know my contractor terms or what should be done.Right. Because I didn't go to school for that. Mm-hmm. Michael: Can I ask how much it costs? April: Uh, it was like 5,000. Michael: Oh, okay. In total, or like per month or something? April: No, he, he just did a contract negotiation for me. He just was a consultant who contracted, who talked to my contractor to make sure everything was like all the t's across, all the dots are placed. Yeah, Michael: that's pretty helpful. That's really helpful actually. Right. Especially. April: Right. And I didn't know this town, like I was like, I don't know anybody here. Yeah. Like whatsoever. So he's at least making sure these contractors are following the rules and doing the proper things instead of, um, saying shady stuff because I don't know, and then I'm screwed over.Michael: Yeah, no, definitely, definitely. How much is your rent? April: It is about 5,000. Okay. So with the internet included? With internet included in n n N. Michael: Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Uhhuh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when did rent start for you, and then when did you have to, when did you officially openApril: rent? Started for me in November, of 2021. I opened December, 2022. Michael: Oh my gosh. So you've been paying rent that whole time, like with nothing, not seeing one patient. April: Yeah. But remember the guy I told you who was fired? Mm-hmm. From the brokerage? He, um, his name is Wale. He was just like the humblest guy and he got the best negotiation you can to get.Ti money. I can't remember how much t money was, but he tried to get the best space, location, everything. I really wish he finished through with me because afterwards it just got pretty bad. A little bit. Yeah. And, but he held my hand through the entire thing cuz he cared so much about me as a person.And he's like the type of person who. Cares about all his people and if you're his homie, he's like, got your back. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So then now that you're open, what have you learned? What are you doing for marketing and advertising? What's your best roi? What systems do you utilize? Things like that. Uh, April: Startup is so hard.Like acquisition is take compared to startups. So all those people who started startups, like props to you. Um, I would say it's about 20 times harder than an acquisition. So no lie. Mm-hmm. Like acquisition, there's a reason why people try to do acquisition so they don't have to do the dirt work, but.Startup, you have to know everything. Like literally everything, nothing's set in place. Um, I'm using open dental. That's what I'm used to using in Texas. It's like a big Texas thing. Apparently it's not a Florida thing, really. Um, that's my E M R system. I use a communication system called Casper. I really like them.And, uh, I used yappy before, but Casper, um, Dr. Osman and he, I think that's Oser. Mm-hmm. Kareem the one. Yeah. He's the one who, um, got me on board. Really personable also, like, because I played around with Ypi before, they ended up having a lot of things that I needed. Um, there's just one thing I think they're working on that would make it pretty solid.and I think it was like the treatment planning part that. Other like services might have driven planning, but every other communication thing about them has been great. And then what else Michael: do I use? Are you talking about YPI right now or Casper, when every other communication. Okay. So, so I April: used the YPI before in Texas.Gotcha, gotcha. Got you. Got you. But Casper's a little bit more. Mm-hmm. Like upkept with everything. Michael: Okay, gotcha. Except for their treatment planning you said? Or you, or you like it. So they don't have it. Oh, they don't have it yet. Or April: they're supposed to bring it on this after this first quarter. So we're, we're getting there and I'm hoping that it'll be, eventually we'll get that portion.Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Okay. So you're using, what are you doing for marketing and advertising? April: Oh, I have so many marketing things right now. marketing's one of those things that it's not like you got it and you're done type of deal. I feel like you have to try every little thing based on the demographic and the region you're in to see which one works best.So initially I started, I used patient pop. To do. I used it in Texas and they were fine, but here they're really not doing anything. they're supposed to do your seo, but I haven't seen anything done. and they bind you to a contract for a year that you cannot get out of, like you cannot get out, like rent the contract a million times, cannot get out of it.So, After one year. Um, I'm done using them. And then I've also took on energized. Cause I was really desperate after being open first month for, to bring patients in cuz nobody knew we existed. Mm-hmm. And then, um, it was good for the first month. And then I was having issues for the second month and I actually contacted them saying like, Hey, this is not worth my money.so I What issues were you having? Like, nobody was showing up. Like they, they said like 50 50 was show, like 50 show, 50 no show. They're like Facebook funneling and like, um, social media funneling, but it was like 10% show maybe. And then like 90% just would, we never see them. So, but I think like after my conversation, they're working on it and I'm really hoping they're working on it.But I've had that, and I have another local guy who does Facebook funneling. He's pretty good at what he does with other clients except dental. I found out that it's the most expensive per click. Um, he's like, I don't understand why your ads are so expensive. Because he's like, I've been doing this like for all my clients, but every dental one is like per click.It's very expensive. So he's running that for me. Um, I purchased, a machine called Morpheus eight, which, so this office is not a family dentist office. It's like dental office, cosmetic driven, and it's a spa. Hmm. So I have an aesthetician. And trained her to, um, be able to do Morpheus, um, it's like a microneedling with radio frequency.And when I got the machine, they also automatically came with four months of marketing for the aesthetic part, and I'm doing Google ads. Mm-hmm. Michael: Okay. Is that working pretty well April: or. Google. So that's why I'm trying to stay out of. Facebook has a certain population and for maybe for a general practice it would be fine, but with an aesthetic practice, cosmetic driven practice, the clients are hi, like a really big hit or miss.Or they don't show. Um, most of them just don't show. And then, um, cuz they're like all price shopping and they want like, everything done for free. So I just, I think Google Ads, I'm gonna allocate that to spend on it. Uh, once my contract, um, is done with some of these companies. Got, Michael: so your contract's already done with patient pop?No. Oh no. So you're, you're still paying patient pop. Energize and a Facebook funnel guy. Yep. Oh man. How much is all that?How much is patient pop? Patient April: pop is like a thousand Michael: a month. Yeah. Okay. And then energize five a thousand a month. Uhhuh. And then the Facebook funnel guy, April: uh, he's like two grand a month. Okay, so now we are breaking it down. So it's like 8,000 maybe on marketing. Yeah, Michael: 8,000 on marketing. Okay. So then once the year's over, where do you see yourself spending saving?What are you gonna start doing more kind of thing. So April: I really start to see the value in community and getting people who are influencers in the market to come in. So we kind of. I help them out a little bit here and there and then in like, trade in with, um, their post or being able to promote us.I try to go to these events to connect because word mouth is huge and, um, especially in a small town like this, uh, like people call this a huge city, but I feel like St. Pete's pretty small. like I'm coming from Houston. Mm-hmm. So, It's also helpful coming from such a big city coming in here because in a really big city it's hard, like marketing's really hard.in a smaller city, I think it's more doable. Um, A lot of people here are like local and they're pretty like hippy. And as long as you show face and then you actually show that you're a real person, they trust and want to come. And then word of mouth. My biggest thing right now is also like I'm trying to figure out different ways to, avenues to market regarding, um, some of the people are finding us through Google.A lot of, some people are finding us through Instagram. When they would see their friend post repost, I would have events so. Not, I would have, I think I had the grand opening, so I'm having another event, uh, next month. And then just to get every other local vendors coming in to do their local thing, they got their own connections, like these business owners, and then provide the facility here, space for them to do that.At the same time, like it's just brand marketing right now at this point. And then, um, branding myself, Another thing I'm doing, which I, I'm on a kick to do it this coming week. I've had, my staff and me we're going over to salons and because salons very, they work with patients all day, people all day long touch their hair all day long.They talk about little stuff. So getting, giving incentive to those, um, People who barbers and people who cut hair to trade in for one of my service. But the service that I trade in, in for them is their lip service to their client. So I will get them in for free Botox, like, I'll be like, Hey, I'm gonna do a free Botox for you first time.Have you ever done it? Okay, we did great. If so, whoever you send over and they come here, you get like $50 off your Botox treatment. So then you send like a certain amount of people by the time you send them over and they get treatment done, then you end up having, all these covered.Then you're gonna get free Botox again. Yeah. But it's also just like bringing in traffic. Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, a hundred percent it's scrum marketing, like, so you. The best thing to do is when you go to these places is like make it make it like tangible. So like leave a signup sheet there with them, right?Sure. So you're like, Hey, what's up man? Like, well, can I have some of your information? And then they're like, yeah, sure. Here's some of my business cards. Right? Then you're like, okay, can I give you some of our information too? And at the same time, this is what I wanted to do just for you. Right? And then you let them know.What you wanna do, your incentive and then say, here, I'll leave a signup sheet. I can come back next week for people who wrote their name and number down, I'll give them a call. Right. But it's actually like something there on their mirror where p patients are like, what? What is? And then they're like front of mind, right?They're like, oh, they're giving, you wanna sign up for this? You know, maybe give the patients an incentive too. Like, hey, everybody who comes in is like a percentage off or, I don't know, right. Something. Right. Um, makes it easier for them to refer and then makes it easier for the patient to come on into. If you wanna do that many incentives, it's April: up to you.Oh no, I, we don't have that going for our patients too right now. Mm-hmm. Like, hey, every person that you refer, you get like $50 off for your own treatment Michael: or whatever. I think that would be a fantastic, like if you guys targeted salons all next week, that'd be beautiful. Yeah, you do really good. So then one last questions I wanna ask you, April, is throughout this process from the moment, I guess you decided to leave till today.What's been some of your biggest pitfalls or fails?April: Uh, I signed a lease before I found a contractor. I. I think that was my biggest pitfall because if I have a contractor, first of all they can't gimme the price anyway because I don't have the lease signed. But it's still someone that you can have to be able to build your space cuz that wasted so much of my time and I think it took like wasted seven months of my time.Mm-hmm. And then I was able to do permitting. My other biggest pitfall. That I am coming out of is staffing. I think from the start I have a lot of expectations, not a lot. These people don't know me, who work for me, um, who sign up in on Indeed, um, to work. But people just don't wanna work anymore. And if I'm not gonna be personable with them, then they're like, I'm out.So I, at the beginning when I first opened, I had really, really, really difficult time with staff, situation. Uh, the front desk girl didn't show up for the first day open. And then my assistant, she came in saying she wants to be an esthetician, except she was doing nothing for about two weeks and I couldn't figure out what she was doing.And then I finally brought in an office manager and then office manager. When I brought her on that day, that assistant said, You know, I know you need her, but I don't work when there's a manager in the house, so I'm out. So I was just like, what kind? Like, but it's also like, I guess I was naive cuz I never had issues with staff before in my old office.But coming here, they also don't know me and they're working for me and I have to take care of my staff, and I really probably came off pretty strong and couldn't take care of them the way that they would if it was an established office and they don't have a 5 million things to do. So I finally have a staff.Who's sticking through the thicken thin. They also love being here. and that's huge. They like, They're like, it's so awesome being here. They love it. And they're like, it's fun. And I was like, oh my gosh. I'm like really thankful that you guys see me as family. And I was very transparent to them and be like, Hey, I have to make these goals.I actually don't take any money home right now. I am hustling on the side, um, going at a emergency clinic and working their, um, night shift or going on a Sunday just because I also have to pay my own bills and I don't wanna take it away from the office of starting off. That cannot provide me. Otherwise we'll be scraping pennies every day.So, um, they know that I'm also hustling. They know that I care a lot about them and just being really straightforward with them. Like, Hey, if we can't meet these goals, this is literally daily goal that I have to meet, uh, to just break even. And if not, then I can't provide you guys jobs and I would have to shut down and figure out stuff first, and then I'm hustling.And, um, that transparency with, um, I am an employer, but I don't pretend to boss him around because nobody deserves to be treated that way. Mm-hmm. Um, they just all have mutual respect for one another. And also like, understand, so training is hard at first. We all expect everybody to be trained perfectly, but that training, um, they're people who appreciate it and they're willing to learn and they get really good at it.And if they're not really good at what they do, then you shift them to a different spot in the office and do that. I wanna give jobs to people. I don't really wanna fire anybody. also if you know, not people, not everybody's good people, I also have to be really, and being able to pick up that too.But I also focus on trying to. Be in their life and be their mentor through different journeys in life, not just in the office space. So that's really built that loyalty for my staff and, um, they're willing to do everything with me. That's Michael: nice. That's really, really good. Awesome. April, thank you so much for being with us.It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? April: Oh yeah, they can find us on Flashden Spa, F l a s h d e n t s p a, and you can email us on info flashden spa.com. And I've been actually helping quite a bit of startup people, uh, individually. So if you have questions, you can reach us out.Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, like always in April. Thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon. April: Thank you.‍

‍Welcome to today's MMM! Today are explore how utilizing AI can benefit your dental practice in reputation management, marketing, and content generation. We'll discuss how ChatGPT can help you craft responses to negative patient feedback, or emails that you don't quite know how to respond to. Using context such as "I'm a personal relations person, how would I respond to this negative comment?" is a great place to start for negative reviews! Additionally, we'll delve into how you can use ChatGPT to market your practice by requesting tailored messaging to reach the patients that you want. Finally, we'll explore how you can leverage ChatGPT to determine the most efficient ways to carry out tasks in your practice.‍To dig into these tips and more, catch my conversation with Dr. Justin Scott here!‍You can reach out to Dr. Justin Scott here:Email: drjustin@puredentalhealth.comWebsite: https://www.virtualdentaloffices.com/Practice Website: https://puredentalhealth.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/virtualdentaloffices/Practice Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/puredentalhealth/‍Other Mentions and Links:ChatGPTTonya Lanthier - Dental PostHIPAA - Health Insurance Portability and Accountability ActOtter AIChatGPT 4Bar ExamBingRev TranscriptionDescriptAdobe Premiere‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: hey Justin. So talk to us about AI and chat, G P T. How can we utilize this, or what advisor suggestions can you give us that will help our workflow efficiency or front office tasks within our practice? Justin: we we're training the whole team to, to use chat, g p t especially the marketing department.And we, we were using it to. I think that the best way to use it is for content generation, for thinking up ideas of what to say. If you're writing content, say for your newsletter or for posts for content. For any type of marketing sort of thing. It's really, really helpful. Even for reputation management, I'm, I'm using it a lot for responding to bad reviews or maybe even an email that comes through from a patient that uh, is angry.It's like, how do I respond to this? Mm-hmm. Uh, What's the most professional PR way to respond to that? It's really good for that. I use it for HR questions. My staff member did this and uh, how should I deal with it? Or am I gonna get know labor laws pretty well? Legal questions, it's pretty good with that kind of stuff.So I actually got rid of my HR legal monthly fee saving money. Uh, So it's already getting rid of jobs. Which a lot of people are, are afraid that it's mm-hmm. Gonna do. But uh, I, I don't think it does everything for you, but it, it does so much of the thought, like if I sit down to write down something, I, I can figure it out.I took AP English, I'm, I'm pretty good with writing, but it would take me a really long time. It can write it like that. Yeah. I can say, write a blog post. Make it 500 words. Boom. I got you one. Okay. Well, okay. Change it to say this. Boom. It changes to that. Okay. Well actually I want it to be a thousand words.And can you write it from, you, you can, do all sorts of crazy stuff like tell it to write it and the voice of the King James version of the Bible and it can do it for, for you like that. I mean, just anything that you want it to do. It can, it, it can pretty much do. Obviously there's no use case for dental office for doing that.Cool. Yeah, yeah. But like today, I was using it to write a bio for myself, for my, for my website, for my new company, VDO. I'm writing a book, so I took my book and I pasted it on there and I said, take this information, write my bio. And then I wrote bio, but it, it didn't have my name cuz my book doesn't have my name in the, in the text because it's on the cover of the book.I'm still writing it. So I was like, it's, my name is not Dr. Smith, it's Dr. Justin Scott. So can you replace it and rewrite it for that? Also, they entered some stuff that I didn't want, so I take that out and put this in did it and copied paste it and sent it to one of my my assistants and told 'em to add it to the website, you know?Yeah. So changing and editing content makes it just so much easier to do. Michael: Nice. Okay, man. So you said you use it for two things that kind of picked my interest was how do you respond to a bad review? Like what kind of prompts do you put in it? So it can sound like you when there's a review? Right. So, Justin: you know, I say act as a whatever.So act as a PR person and tell me what is the best way to respond to this review. And you know, sometimes you get a person that's complaining about all sorts of stuff. You may wanna give some contacts for the particulars of the situation, but it basically says, we're really sorry to hear that you didn't have a great experience.but it's, it's tailored to the specifics of what it says. Mm-hmm. Uh, It's probably a lot easier cause I, I'm emotional. I, I'm gonna respond wait a second, you did this, you know, but that's against hipaa. You're not allowed to do that. So when I did one the other day, she was complaining about her case and saying, this is what happened.This is what happens. And it says, well, according to hipaa, we can't discuss your case, but we'd love to be able to talk to you and figure out what's going on. We've talked to her a bunch of times, but this is for the. For the people they're reading it. This is for reputation management, so that someone's reading it says, Oh, they, you know, she had a problem, but they really cared and they wanted to take care of, and they offered to offer, you know, help to make sure that she solved it.That's what people really care about that, that you're gonna help with that. So, but if you basically just say, can you, how would you respond to this review as a PR person? Or you can just say, how would you respond to this review? That's a pretty darn good job. Michael: Yeah. Nice. Okay. I like that PR person, right?Act as a PR person. And then the HR questions, what HR questions have you been? Like Justin: asking, oh gosh. I mean, a staff member threat. I mean, I'm just making something up. Mm-hmm. Threatens threatened to harm herself at work, you know, and, There's all sorts of stuff.I mean, we just go on to Facebook and read the crazy stuff that happens in dental offices, but how do you legally respond to that? I'm not an HR person. I don't know. Questions, obviously, it always says, well, I'm not a lawyer, even though it has passed the bar exam. Yeah, G4 has, so you have to pay 20 bucks for G B D four or you can use Microsoft Bing, which gives you access to, to G PT four.The older ones, g PT 3.5, they didn't do as well on the law exam and stuff like that. But yeah, it's crazy how fast those things are learning and getting to be more useful and better. Uhhuh, Michael: I didn't even know that it passed the, the bar exam. Justin: What? It's got a long list of all the different tests that it's passed Now, some tests it's tried, it hasn't done as well, but legal law tests and also you have to use your brain like you have to read it.You know, I'm, I'm not gonna, actually use it for legal advice, but it may like at least give me hints the right way, you know, so that I have an idea of something, you know, so. Mm-hmm. Michael: Yeah. So then how are you utilizing it for marketing right now? Give us, like, if you can, a step-by-step process of this.Somebody who just right now, God on Chad, like, I'm gonna listen to Justin tell me this, and hopefully it will, it'll do this result. Justin: So I think the most easy thing is, for instance I actually did a podcast with another guy. We were talking about the best way to do it. If you're doing video, for instance, you, you're doing a podcast.If I was doing a podcast, what I would do, the first thing I would do is I would transcribe it and you would transcribe it with a bunch of different softwares are out there that can do it. So Otter AI is one can transcribe things for you. Des d e s c r i p t is another AI software that you can transcribe it.Just Debbie Premier. Rev.com. You can pay someone to transcribe it for you per hour or whatever. A couple bucks an hour. So you take that and then you past that into chat GBT and say, okay, write me a blog post about this conversation that we had so that I can put on my website and link this back.So you do that. So now you got your blog posts. Now you say you put it back in, you say, okay, now write me a YouTube thing cause I'm gonna place this on my YouTube and, and put me some, some great hashtags in there. And also, what should I include in the comments section because I wanna make sure that I'm doing everything.So it may say, Oh, well to, you wanna have some sort of email capture device. Like you wanna have a P D F that can be on there, that can be linked. So then when they watch this, now they can download that. Okay, make that for me too. Okay. Now take that and, and make me an Instagram post. Make me 10 tweets will link back to that uh, thing.So you've got this pillar content of video, and then you take the transcript and you use it. And then you spread that all around using chat G P T on all the different social medias that you can go on. TikTok, you can go on different things. All of the different ones have different sizes that they want you to do things or you know, some you want to use more emojis and depends on what you're trying to target.And you can ask it, well, if this is what I'm trying to target. How should I go about doing that? And I do that a lot cuz I'm not a marketing expert. I'm just asking chat, g p t. A lot of these questions, everything I'm telling you I've learned from chat g p T. so another thing is that learning, learning what the best way to do things are.Just asking chat, g p t, what is the best way to do this? Or what is the best way to market this? Or what is the best way to measure this? What is the best way to do an AdWords campaign? What should I do first? Any kind of marketing that you need to do, it really does have great answers and ability to teach you to do those things.So, yeah, I think content generation and being able to take that into slice it and dice it into every different firm and fashion is great. It's a lot of work. I have a, a couple of virtual assistants that I've trained to do all these different things, and that's what the VDO is about is uh, we hire virtual teams for.Dental offices so that they can help them do things like marketing, social media, because the real key is consistency with content. And that it's engaging. And then the measurement because you have to measure the, the impact of your marketing. And that's a lot of work. And if you're practicing dentists like me, being able to do all that stuff is, is very time consuming.Some people like to do it, but it's hard for me to, to be able to put all that together. I like them to aggregate it for me so that I can. Help direct it where I can. Yeah, that's what virtual Michael: dental offices is, is like, it's uh, so for example, I'm a practice owner and then uh, I need a team to help create these campaigns.Market provide strategies, right? Like run the Instagram for Justin: me kind of thing. Yeah, so we train them to do that. We have our processes that we've already trained people to do, so then we hire people and it's very inexpensive because we're hiring them typically in the Philippines. So average cost for somebody is under 12 bucks an hour, you know, where you can't even hire somebody for less than $20 an hour to be your hygiene.The center to work at the front desk these days in Atlanta at least. So we hire somebody and then we just train 'em to do the different things. That someone wants 'em do to help come up with social media captions. And, and the best way to do that is you use chat pt. I mean, naturally most people that you hire is not gonna be able to come up with great engaging content.But chat, PT can and they can access it and use it. You don't have to be smart to be able to do it. You don't even have to have great English. You can just mm-hmm. Ask it to do it right. And you can even ask it in tag go log, which is the main language of Philippines, and it'll. Translate it to English for you very easily.Nice. Okay. It's a great tool for us. We use it all the time with everything that we do. Michael: Are you using it in your front, like your front office is using it right now or no? Justin: We use it for like predeterminations answering patient emails. I think that it's, it's good for just general questions, you know.But it's not great for like real specific questions for insurance and stuff like that yet. Mm-hmm. But. Give it time, it will. So it just needs to be trained, the right data sets. It's just, it's, it's based more on general data versus real specific data. So, but like marketing for instance, which is very general data, it's got a ton of stuff but specifics on insurance, dental specific insurance, it's, it's not as helpful, so.Mm-hmm. But I've asked questions like, what is the c d t code for this? I mean, you could, you could just Google it, but it also will find stuff that you typically could just Google. Michael: Because it's more like a conversation, right? Google gives you a ton of options, but this will give you like, here's what I think.Yeah. And the best option, right? Like one and the best kind of thing. Like right. One that isn't Justin: perfect. I mean, it's not perfect, but man, it's, it's pretty cool. Cuz it feels like a lot of times it's a lot more just straight to the point. You don't have to go clicking on random stuff and dealing with a bunch of spam.Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. You haven't used this. You gotta try it. It's, it's awesome. I got psyched about it. When I started using it. I was like telling my mom and all these people, A lot of people were just like, what? I don't care about this, you know? Yeah. But I'm like, this is revolutionary. This is awesome.Can you see all the things you can do with it? So it's the type of person that is attracted to this kind of thing. Some people just don't care, you know, they're like, whatever, you know? Mm-hmm. But uh, to me it's just like super exciting, super fun, nice play with. Michael: Can you give us one other AI kind of tool we can utilize within the practice?Justin: Let's see. AI tool that we can utilize in the practice. You mean with Chet or with some other type of ai? Some other type Michael: of ai. Justin: Let's see. I really like uh, the script which is a is a video editing app. So I talked about video editing, so if you're doing any kind of video, it's really great for transcribing the, the text and then if you need to edit things like for instance, the uhs and the ums that are coming up, anytime you're having a conversation with, I'm sure I've said it all the time.I, last podcast I had 400 uhs and ums and filler words. So it automatically pulls up all the US ums and filler words. The, the likes and the A means and things like that, you know? Yeah. You know? Yeah, exactly. And all it's on a like a script, kind of like Microsoft Word or. Slides, you know, like the, the, the Google Slides or something like that, or PowerPoint and you just delete it and it deletes the whole scene.So basically the way you edit the video is just by deleting words. You can copy, paste and move 'em around or correct the specific words. So I've been using that a lot. To do little videos. I made a really cool video that's a testimonial for one of my staff members so that I can. Help try to find an assistant.Unfortunately the in-office assistants are really hard to find. One of the reasons I started the company is because it's so hard to find good people nowadays. so I'm actually actively marketing, creating video content just to try to track people to come apply for my job. I pace the. Dental assistant add out.No one responds. And, and this is not just with me, this is industry-wide. I've talked to people that run like my, one of my friends is Tanya Lanier, who owns Dental post.com, which is the biggest well, she, she, she sold it, but she used to own dental post.com, and it's one of the biggest. Places where people post job ads in the country for dental offices.And she says it's happening everywhere as well as I'm part of d e O, which is Dental Entrepreneur's Organization. I'm hearing about it from all over the, the country that one of the biggest problems is just recruiting people is Michael: really challenging. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to help though. That's a good way to help to use that, you know what I mean?Right. To create it the way you wanted to create it and, and, and put your spin on it. So. Awesome. Justin, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, where can they contact you at? we have Justin: a website ww dot, www.virtualdentaloffices.com with the S at the end, O F F I C E S. You can, uh, email me directly, d r justin pure dental health.com.That's my, my dental office, P U r e D E N T A l H e A L t h.com. And we have Instagram for both of those as well. So yeah, reach out anyway. You'll find me Justin Scott. Awesome. So guys, Michael: that's gonna be all we one in Atlanta I know, but that's gonna be in the show notes below. So definitely go check it out.And Justin, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Justin: Cool. Thanks man. Have a great week.‍‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Amy MurrayBusiness Name: Dental Practice Management AgencyCheck out Amy's Media:‍Website: https://www.dentalpracticemanagementagency.com/‍‍Other Mentions and Links:University of TampaEaglesoftIndeedDISC AssessmentMarissa NicholsonDental IntelBraving Video - Renee BrownShrekUnreasonable Hospitality - Will Guidara ‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Try not to talk over your patients! Instead, be an active listener to really hear the issues and concerns they have.Resumes only show technical qualifications, so always request a cover letter from applicants to really hone in on values and personalities!Always acknowledge patients when they walk in the door! Even just a smile and a wave can make all the difference.Engaging workshops and motivating projects are essential to an effective team meeting system.Having a third party coach that can see your practice from a bird's eye view is a valuable asset!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Amy, how's it going? Good, how Amy: are Michael: you? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located Amy: right now? I'm actually in Highlands Ranch, Colorado, so right outside of Denver. Michael: Nice. Okay, wonderful.So if you can tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you are Amy: today? Well, let's see. I've been in dentistry 25 years. Um, how much time do we have? So I've been in dentistry five years and it's pretty exciting. I started off as a dental assistant and then I moved my way over into administrative roles.So I was a treatment plan coordinator, receptionist, financial coordinator. Moved myself up to an office manager, decided at one point in my life I wanted to go back to college and get my bachelors degree and become a dentist, and that didn't work out very well. I actually fell in love with the topic of sociology applied sociology's degree in as soon as I graduated from University of Tampa Dentistry Concierge in Tampa.Absolutely loved it. Um, from there I had an opportunity to move to Colorado and became a technology advisor. So I'd go into dental offices, I would teach about eaglesoft conversions, um, digital CAD cam training. And then from there I started my consulting role, uh, took a little bit of a time, a break and works for a sleep apnea company for devices and integrations into practice.And now I'm back dental coaching and consulting. Okay. Michael: Wow. So you were able to, you did technology training? Amy: I did, Michael: yes. Okay. Wow. So that's interesting. A a lot of this. So then go back to applied sociology. That's what you started falling in love with more. Why? Amy: Oh, well, I took a class in inorganic chemistry, not once, but twice.And so we didn't agree with, I took a class cause I had to in sociology. My PE professor walked in and, uh, he didn't look like a normal professor. And so I, I sat back and I opened myself up to this class. And what I loved about it is that it allowed me to learn more about, race, ethnic background, gender, um, age.And it really breaks it down into how societies work and how they function with one another. And it's so applicable as to what I do today. Okay. Michael: Okay, so then, so what you do today, how does those two mesh together? Amy: How do they correlate? Well, you know, every day as a dental consultant is something new. So in saying that, I have wonderful clients that I work with.They're, they're, they're the best in the business, I feel. And what I love about them is they are female, they're male, they're different age brackets. They come from different backgrounds and they're personal influences. Their professionals, where they went to dental schools, where they did their undergrad.And so having this sociology background, I can help in understanding how they wanna grow their business and also the element of their team member. Team members come from so many different backgrounds. It's like a melting pot. So to be able to really understand them and the ways of communication and how different cultures, genders, ages, blend, that's how you get a beautiful practice.So that's how I see they've kind of correlated. Michael: Mm-hmm. Okay. Gotcha. So this all kind of stems. From the, so how does that apply when you're hiring, I guess a team, you're finding a team member, you're looking for them. We don't, I mean, do we wanna look at their like, oh, okay. Tell me more about your upbringing, or how does that work?Amy: So, you know, it's quite interesting. I love the hiring pro, uh, process that we do with the agency. Uh, we place an ad, it's typically on indeed, When, um, individuals are applying, we do ask for them to place a cover letter, because a resume only shows me where you work and what your job responsibilities are.A cover letter is huge. That's you telling me with your verbiage, who you are, where you excel, what's your background. I, I love a cover letter. That's just wonderful for me. After I received that, I actually called the doctor, or I call the applicant, and the first question I ask them is, tell me a little bit about yourself.Such a really simple question. However, it's a very powerful, whenever I ask that question, I'm not really focusing on the personal, I wanna hear about your business. I wanna hear how you've, you know, grown your career. Where are you at, things of that nature. Then I'll ask for them, what's important for you in a dental practice to be a part of a team?What is important to you? So I capitalize on those things. From there, I actually ask them if I can send them what's called a DISC assessment. And the DISC assessment actually helps me learn what is the best way that they like to communicate. Michael: Okay. So there's like a system to it, a strategy. Yeah, very much so.When it comes to the cover letter to you, what are things you look at where this is a wonderful, like this is should be framed, cover letter or one that's like, this is nothing, this doesn't tell me anything. Amy: Wonderful, wonderful. Uh, question. So in a cover letter, what I wanna look for is a, that you can spell.That's huge. Right? And grammatically, you know, actually how to place those punctuations. Cause think about it, in our industry right now and dentistry, we do a lot of emails, we do a lot of text messages as well. So grammatically, uh, you wanna be on point. Also, you wanna have a beautiful tonality as well. I want something that's really strike me.So what are the words that you're using?What wrong, uh, verbiage and powerful words are you putting in there for me to be like, okay, this person actually has like, much better, much better, has stepped up the game. So that's what I look for. Michael: Okay. Now, so it doesn't, there's no length that you're also looking for like, oh, it has to be like 10. Amy: Oh, no.Now I always say, show me what you have. Show me who you are and why is it that you are wanting to apply for this position? Michael: Okay, that's interesting. So then you, after you decided, we rewind a little bit back to you, you went to apply sociology, you learned, and then you decided to go into some positions where you're, you know, teaching technology a rep and things like that.And then you switched to consulting. Amy: I did. Why I did, I was actually in a training class. I was training a, uh, software and I had this beautiful person named Marissa Nicholson join in on my training. I had no idea who she was. Uh, her client and her, um, team members. She took me aside afterwards and she says, oh my gosh, you had such a plethora of knowledge, not only about the software, you were giving tips and tricks about how to run an administrative role.I said, yes. I said, well, that's what I used to do in my past. And she says, have you ever thought about dental coaching and dental consulting? I was flabbergasted. I said, wow, you think that I'm good enough for that? She says, I think you're amazing. Okay. And so we started working together at that point. And it's been a beautiful friendship and a professional relationship since then.Michael: And so that was the kickstart, the inspiration, the motivation to go into that? Yes. Very interesting. Yeah. Now, when it comes to an administrative role, you said, because that's, I would say that's your forte. Wouldn't that be your area of expertise? Yes. Amy: That, uh, preservation of culture in the practice.Communication. Oh, yes. Michael: Okay, so when it, well, two questions, but the first one, when it comes to an administrative role, break it down for us. What are some things we need to absolutely have to create that system for an administrative role? And then what are some things that are not as important that we feel maybe are highlighted too much in social media or other stuff?Amy: Mm-hmm. That's a good question. Uh, I would say for an administrative role, what's super important is for somebody, To greet patients, answer the phone with a smile, put a smile on your face, you change your physiology. It's amazing the verbiage and the tonality that comes outta your mouth. So I always think that it's somebody who is charismatic, who's very positive, who wants to be there, and who wants to be a team member.They want to learn from there. I would say open communication. I feel as though in our administrative roles right now, we don't have a lot of people that are considered active listeners. We have a lot of people that want to talk over, talk over the patient. The patients are calling you because they need you, and you need to be the active listener.Ask powerful and appropriate questions. Make sure that you're hearing what the patient has to say. Repeat back to the patient what you heard them say to make sure you're capturing it so eloquently, and then take care of what the need is that the patient's asking for. Michael: Gotcha. What powerful and appropriate questions can you like prep us for that normally happen?Amy: Definitely. I always like to, first I thank patients who call, so if it is calling Dr. Speedo's office, you wanna greet them and you wanna say Thank you for choosing Speedo Family Dentistry. This is Amy, I can help you. It's powerful in that introduction because A, it identifies you know who I am. Thank you so much for choosing.If you could choose anybody, and I'm the person that's gonna be able to help you. From there, I like to ask them. Well, typically at that point they tell me what it is that they need. Mm-hmm. So I'm quiet and so it's appropriate for me to ask the next question. I always like to ask, are you a patient of record?And if they say Yes, I've been there before, that's awesome. If they say, no, I've never seen this dentist before. I said, that's great. Welcome to your new dental home. I'm very happy to take care of you. How can I best support you? Or how can I help you? Mm-hmm. And then from there, again, I'm an active listener.I listen to what the patient says and what it is that they need. If they're calling for a traditional profi appointment cleaning appointment, or if they need to get in and have their emergency met, then I'm asking a more key question. What are you feeling? Can you describe to me what location of the mouth is it?So I like to ask all those fun key questions. It's like an onion. You wanna pull back the layers and keep asking and asking until you get exactly what it's. Michael: Nice. Yeah. I feel like sometimes Amy, I remember when I was in the front, sometimes it would be like I'm rushing it, you know what I mean? The phone drinking, somebody just walked in and I'm like, okay, even though we have another front office.And so when it comes to asking questions, it, two things I feel like it made me realize is one. I'm rushing it. And then the second it's like, Hey, how's everything coming along? Is it good? Is it bad? I'm, I'm giving them options to answer instead of being comfortable with the silence. So how can we be better with, comfortable with, you know what I mean?Like asking 'em a question and then shutting up. And then the second thing would be, um, how do we handle not rushing it? Amy: Definitely not rushing am it's, it's hard, right? That's a double-edged sword, especially being in, um, a very busy practice. Uh, as an administrator, you have people walking in, you have people giving you handoffs from the back.Uh, you have other lines that are ringing. I always like to say that when a patient walks in, you should acknowledge them, acknowledge them with your eyes, even if you're on the phone, acknowledge 'em with their hand, um, and smile. So they know you're gonna be with them momentarily. What's most important, especially if there's a new patient on the phone, you never, ever, ever want, stop that conversation.That's why I initially asked in the beginning, are you a patient of record? Are you a new patient? If they're a patient of record and I have all these other things that are happening, I'm very candid with the patient of record and say, you're extremely important to me. Could you please tell me what I can do to help you?And then if it's something that I can call them back, I will gladly take their number and let them know I will call you back in the next five to 10 minutes. You gotta hold it to your word though. Mm-hmm. You gotta call him back five to 10 minutes. If it's a new patient, I'll simply roll through and do what I need to do.Um, I also would hope that I would have strong enough administrators and team members that are cross trained, that if I'm focused on something, they can also help. But I believe that if you just simply smile and acknowledge and let people know, they generally get that queue and know that you'll be with them as quickly as possible.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So it involves also like. Letting the team members know, kind of Right. Maybe would you recommend like having like a, a signal or something when you're feeling like, okay, I have too much going on, and, you know, or, or what do you think? Yeah, Amy: yeah, you could actually, I mean, we use this for hygiene all the time with the agency, which I love.We have, uh, different colored cards. So what that means is we have green, if things are going good, there's, there's no. There's, there's not a lot of time that are on this phone call. We have yellow. Yellow is like, Ooh, this is a little bit tricky. Patient's asking a couple of questions, and then we have Ray, oh my gosh.They have a whole lot of things that they wanna get across to us. So what you can do is you can have those series of cards and as somebody walks up without you mouthing anything, miss what the patient's saying. You can easily slide over a card and, and so they know. Mm-hmm. Now that's a visual cue, and then they can know that if it's yellow or red, hey, I need to take care of this patient.Our administrator is really focused. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. I like that. The card situation. Yeah. I feel like whenever you're stuck in a situation when you're with a team and you're having a hard time, there should be like a signal or something. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yes. Amy: Yeah. There totally should be. There should be.So, yeah. Uh, we help our teams with that, so it's just a fun idea. Michael: Nice. That's wonderful. And so then you also mentioned one of your area of expertise is maintaining the team culture. Mm-hmm. And so first, how do we even. Find the, like I, for example, I'm just gonna give you an example. Like if I go, Amy, I want my culture to be happy.Do we do, how do we go from there? What do we figure Amy: out? So of course I'm gonna ask you what does happy mean to you? Like, give me some more words. That's just a real general, um, description. So I said, give some more words, more specific. Are you looking for team members? Are you wanting to preserve something that people are excited to come to work day?That you're gonna be excited to, um, I don't know, answer the phone every day, things of that nature. Right. So the way that we go about preservation for positive culture in a practice is we actually do what's called observation. With the agency, which I love because this allows us to be able to float from front to back.We watch admin side, we watch our das with our doctors, we watch hygiene, and we do this because there's certain key words that we want to see how the teams are interacting with each other and then also with the patients. So that's huge. not only do we do the observations and we're very candid, we give great feedback, constructive feedback to our team members and to our doctors as well to accelerate that.We also provide monthly team meetings. Which, uh, we, as the business coaches and consultants, we run those. And what I love about them is that we have an agenda. We do fun workshops, we focus on communication. We do disc presentation, so we'll take disc off of everybody and we'll do a fun presentation on that.Um, we'll actually talk about better strategies of how information is given and received by team members as well. Michael: Okay. So then when it comes to the observation part, what are some things you've seen that you can share with us? Like the three most common, this is what happens and this is the solution for why we can stop making that happen when it comes to a problem.Amy: Yeah, so definitely one of the things that we like to observe is the handoff. Those are critical, right? We like to know exactly, uh, that. Hy I'm gonna use hygiene, for example, if that's okay. Mm-hmm. Hygienist is in with the patient, right? It's a very, uh, it's like a dance of a relationship, right? The, the patient is gonna tell the hygienist more than they're gonna tell the doctor sometimes.So what we like to do is we like to have the hygienist, uh, after they do it, the tore of the mouth. That they specifically write down things and they also tell the patient, Hey, you, I'm a little bit concerned. I see some things here, but let's confer with the doctor. When the doctor comes in. It's important, doctor. It's still great for the hygienist to say, you know, uh, Dr. Sido, today we're seeing Mrs. Jones, and what I saw with Mrs. Jones was X, Y, and z. I'm curious about this. Could you please take a look at this and then to go in if there's perio concerns or anything of that nature? there, the doctor's gonna do their dance, but the doctor is listening to the hygienist.That's the beauty of it, right? That the hygienist is actually pointing out areas. And from there, what I love is that the doctor is gonna confer. Yep. You know you are exactly right. I see what you're seeing. Let's go ahead and get this patient scheduled. I'll see you in the next week, two weeks. There's a time and urgency.That's that appointment. So now the patient's, not the patient has heard what they need to have done. Not once, but twice. And then the third time is when they're handed off from the hygienist to the administrator. So the patient is now hearing what they need three times. This is a beautiful dance because us as humans, we don't listen to things.We don't grasp them one time. So by the time we're ready to get appointed, we're now hearing it three times and we know that is an urgency because the doctor has placed that. That really helps in the scheduling of practice. Michael: Mm. It helps finalize it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like to, to get it in there. Interesting. So do you ever feel, Amy, when you're doing the observations like. Team members act or perform kind of thing in front of you, right? And then they go back to like, because I mean, somebody watching, somebody's watching me. So I'm like, I gotta turn it on. And then maybe like somebody else is like Amy, he really doesn't act like that around here.He just, you know what I mean? Does that happen? Amy: Oh, it happens all the time. Happens all the time. Um, a lot of times myself, uh, Marissa and Nicholson and Chris Hamal, the main coaches, uh, we actually don't do a lot of the observations. We have our administrators, we have two administrators, uh, Jamia and Alexa, who actually go in on our behalf because we know how our team members act.So if it's a different set of eyes, they might get a different reaction as well. you know, we're humans, so we go straight into our automatic, it's what we know. And if we know that somebody's watching us, like you said, we can step up our game a little bit and then we kinda fall back. Um, we definitely go in.We try not to let everybody know that we're coming in so we can actually see them in their natural, uh, capabilities and where they land. Some of the times it's inevitable. If they see us, they see us. Uh, but a lot of times what we do like to do is kinda go in on the stealth mode and a different set of eyes.It might get a different return. So Michael: yeah. Okay. That's interesting. So then how can we main, we figured out how we can find the culture. How do we maintain it? Amy: Maintaining. So it's critical to have those monthly team meetings. A lot of offices, the moment you say, oh, let's have a meeting, all of a sudden people are like, no, I don't wanna have a meeting.Cause it's just by PowerPoint or there's people complaining and that's no fun, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, so I always like to say team meetings need to be motivated. Be transparent with your team about your numbers. We use a great digital software platform, Intel, and I love dental Intel. It only works with certain softwares, however, it will take within that software and put it in a dashboard, um, metric.so doctors are really transparent with their teams and you're gonna get the best outta your teams. Now, they're also held accountable for daily goals. For DR. And hygiene as well. from there I always like to do what I like to call personal and professional check-in, so gimme one one of each and everybody around the room does that.And I love it because a lot of times our teams don't have time to get to know each other, so everybody shares something great that's happened with them personally and professionally. Very clear about numbers. And then I'll actually bring in a workshop. Workshops are huge. You can go on YouTube and actually Google different type of inspirational videos.Brown is one of our. And you can pull from what she's saying and you can actually make that into a really small workshop. Ask your team powerful questions, have them work together and that is beautiful. Cause at the end of the day, you're preserving that culture cuz you're teaching everybody how to properly communicate.Michael: Yeah. What have been some amazing workshops that you've done, Amy? Well, I Amy: love disc. Disc is my favorite. When we make it really fun, we actually use the movie Shrek as a part of our disc presentation. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, you have the dominant person, you have the other person who's very interactive. You have the one that needs and the one that needs consistency. And, uh, so this has to be my absolute favorite. Second would be braving, uh, by Brene Brown. Mm-hmm. It's actually teaching everybody how to trust a team member and how a person needs to be what's called a vault. And when you tell somebody something who is a bolt, you know that they are gonna take whatever you say, to their grave.And so I love that one as well. And it's really learning how to trust one another, which a lot of times is a work in progress. Huh? Michael: Can you give us some steps right now on how we can tell our team, like you, you need to trust, you need to trust Suzy Bell, like, you know what I mean? How can we, yeah. What are some things we can do?Amy: Well, definitely I always say if you have an upset with somebody, you have to go directly to that person, right? And you have to clear the air. A lot of times it's very difficult to do. We do teach people how to do that so they feel comfortable in their own skin and to be able to go to that person. We also like to talk about how in breathing that it's super important to know that. When you set that positive culture in the practice and you know that I can go and I can talk to this person, and this person is not going to, uh, take what I say, take it outta context, share it with other people, um, we teach them that you'll have a beautiful friendship and professionalism for the rest of your life.Right, and it's really, it's learning to like and love each other. And that disc plays an important role because it's how, how can I read that person? Are they very direct? Are they mostly like a high, they're not. Listen, So it's really understanding the disc part and establishing those parameters and boundaries, um, for giving in, receiving information, and the, the three all work together, so Beautiful.Michael: Nice. When you do these workshops and assessments, or even before that, what do you do when you notice there's a team member who you're like, you don't fit, man. Like, you just don't, you're. You're negative or something. Like what? What happens with that? Amy: Ooh. Those are what I like to call crucial conversations.Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Uh, you even see it outside of the team meeting, you can pretty much pick it up pretty quickly, right. Um, what I like to do, always like to believe in the beauty of everyone. I will ask the doctor if it's okay for me to take that team member aside and really one-on-one. I'll ask the team member, are you doing okay?That's the first thing I'll ask them. If they say, yes, I'm doing fine. Say, okay, well I've noticed that there's a little bit of, um, you're not being your best self. And what I mean by that is I see so much beauty in you. How Courtney does that sound right? Me? Just saying that I see the beauty in you. It's true though.Cause look, I just said it to you and you smiled and you left. Mm-hmm. Right? Made you feel good. I see the beauty in you and I can see that you are so much more than what you're giving right now. So how can I get the very best out of you? And usually once I do that, even if you are the highest in their D category of dominant.I can get a pretty good response back and I kinda figure out what's going on with them. Michael: Gotcha. Also, you normally see that in the dominance. Like people who are like I, you know what Do you think it's that? Because it's like somebody else is coming into here and I run it kind of thing? Or, or no? Amy: Oh yeah.Oh yeah. Some of the highs, I love them. Each category has a special place in my heart, but the highs, they're gonna tell you what they need and what they want and everything else just doesn't really matter to them. It's okay. They have a special place in this world. to teach them to be more open and better communicators.That's where I kind of land when I ask them those questions. Michael: Gotcha. I have a question for you then, because I guess what do you do when, what is the best way, if you can tell, like the listeners, this will help facilitate the coach coaching consultant team or coaching consultant practice. So much easier if you do these steps.If you don't, you're gonna put the blame on me, or you're gonna put the blame on somebody else. You're just not gonna see the results you want. What would help Amy: with that? Well, I would say definitely, uh, look at a dental coach, right? They are, I know a lot of doctors are like, gosh, you know, I have, I have so many overhead expenses, and, and it can be costly.I understand that. Hiring a dental coach is taking a third party person who is actually looking for the betterment of you for the betterment of your practice and keeping your team sustainable. And that's huge. I feel as though, uh, bringing somebody on board who has the outside perspective that can look in and be very honest with you.I am honest with all of my clients. Good, better, indifferent at the beginning of our relationship. I tell them at times, you may not like what I'm gonna say, and I understand that I am looking out for the betterment for you guys to be successful. I always tell my my wonderful clients as well, I, I don't plan on being with you forever and ever.Amen. I'm gonna teach you the tools and I want you to fly, and if you need me to come back to redirect, I'm gonna be there. but we are together for a period of time. So a lot of times doctors think, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get this consultant. They're gonna be with me forever. And sustainability and financial agreements, um, our agency doesn't operate like that.Again, we will, uh, teach you how to fish and then we want you to go up and be completely successful and we'll always be your biggest cheerleaders. Michael: Okay. So it's mainly like the communication that you want. All the time. Right to, yeah. Let them know like, hey, yeah. Be, because I remember we, we would have a lot of coaches and consultants, like even with Somewhere, I'm like, where do you come from?Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've never heard of some of these before. Like I'm just like, where are you? Right? And so I never knew what they did in the sense of, oh, now we're just taking Medicaid or Medicare. You know what I mean? Now we're just doing something else. And I would see them kind of run through the door.And I remember our office manager sometimes or other people, they'd be like, yeah, you know what, they don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. They're not gonna come in here and fix it. And I'm like, maybe if we were more flexible, it would've worked. Or maybe if they knew what they were, you know what I mean?Kinda Amy: thing. Yes, yes. It's very, very true. It's very, very true. I always love to give team members, I always like to let them know I am joining to help you grow. A lot of times when team members hear the word consultant or business coach, they automatically think that they're not gonna have a job.And that's scary. So of course their defenses are already up. So when Chris, Marissa, or myself go into a practice, we always introduce us who we are. I give them my background. I always say to administrators, I used to do what you did. I know how important your role is. Mm-hmm. And I'm here to help you.You had three things. Three things you love in this practice, tell me. And then they'll tell me. I said, okay, if you had three things that you wanna make better in this practice, what are they? And I asked every single team member that question, and let me tell you, nine times outta 10, they're all saying the same thing.They might say it differently, there's a common thread. And that's when I typically take that common thread back to the doctor and I say, okay, so this is what I'm hearing. This is what I'm seeing. But I like to let the team members know that I'm there for them. I want them to grow and for them to be successful.Michael: Mm. Okay. I like that. Three common things, you know what I mean? Yeah. Especially if they're all like, what's this one person? Then, you know, like, ok, then we gotta get rid of that one person. Whatever. Interesting. I'm kinda ok. Yeah. Yeah. So these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry, working every day in the mouth, right?Yeah. What would you like to see more from a dentist? Amy: Oh goodness. What I would love to see more from a dentist is, Look at your team members, be appreciative of your team members, and know that they are there every day, day in and day out to make you better and to support you. I think a lot of times as dentists, we overlook that.They are so worried about, um, overhead, right? Getting more new patients. How do I market myself better? There's so many things that they're thinking of, and a lot of times we really don't look inside and we really don't appreciate the team that is supporting us and helping us grow. So what I mean by that is I always tell my doctors once a quarter, do an activity with your team.Show them how much you appreciate them. My goodness. Um, order, coffee, things of that nature. It's the small things that really mean a lot. one workshop that we do, it's really great, we talk about value, um, morals and values, and I learn while the doctors there, what their team member values. And some of the times the doctors sit back and they're like, I never knew that that's what they needed.That's what them going in the day. So I, I feel as though that type is, um, really gonna make it better for, for the, for the dentist all the way around. Michael: Mm. Okay. I like that. Like doing activities with them, letting them know you appreciate them. Yeah. Um, understanding that it is true. You need them to, you know what I mean?You need Amy: them. Yeah. You need them. Michael: They're important. Okay. All right. So next question is right now. What do you dislike or hate about dentistry? Amy: Oh, goodness. That's a tough question. I would have to say, uh, what I dislike with dentistry right now is, um, everybody is looking for new patients, right? The, the dentist believe that more new patients I have is the bigger and better that I'm gonna grow, and they miss that.They miss what's most important. What's most important is the current patients that you're serving. So what do I mean by that? Well, when your patients walk, the first question that your administrator needs to ask is, how is your visit today? That's such an important question because that one question, if they had a great visit and the patient responds, oh, it was awesome.It was great. That is so wonderful. We are accepting new patients. Do you know of anybody who's looking for a new dental home? And then again, active listeners don't say anything. Mm-hmm. Don't say anything. And if they say, well, you know, I don't know. Here's some of our cards. We love patients just like you.So if you do, please send them our way. What a beautiful compliment you just gave somebody. Right? And positivity. They're gonna go and they're probably gonna tell other people. And by organic growth, we're getting new patients. And I think that if dentists would take a moment and take a step back and really listen to what I have to say in regards to that, you would be amazed what you would get.Mm, Michael: doing that with every single patient, right? Every single patient. Amy: And it flows, it really does flow. Uh, at first when you tell administrators to do this, they look at you and they say, I don't have enough. That's what they say. I don't enough time. You actually do have enough time. It really just rolls off so easily because you know Mrs.Jones, you know she's amazing and you want more people like her. So give her that beautiful compliment and let her know you guys are looking for new patients and when you want people just like her. Mm-hmm. Michael: Beautiful. I like that. I like that a lot. Okay, so focus on the internal marketing kind of thing.Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. And then right now, what do you absolutely love about dentistry? Amy: What I love about dentistry is, um, all the beautiful team members that I get to work with and the wonderful clients that I have. It's super important. With our agency, we focus on the quality of our clients, not the quantity.The quantity doesn't define us. What definitely defines us as the quality. I love the fact that, um, my clients know they can call me whatever time, day or night, and I'm gonna be there for them even on the weekend. I cherish them. I cherish our relationship. I love the fact that they were like a, they opened their kimona for me to come into their practice and to help them succeed.So, being an open dentist, it really does open you up to so many capabilities and possibilities. It's pretty awesome. That's what I really love about dentistry now. Nice. How Michael: does, let me ask you side note, how does that affect your, I guess, like personal life? If they're always like, you can call me no matter what, whenever.All the time. Yeah. What does that look like? Amy: Oh, it's great. It really is. Uh, a lot of times they don't always take me up on that. However, if it's a nine one emergency, they know that I'm gonna be there. You know, Chris, Marissa, myself, we do like to spend time with our families and outta town. The beauty about our working relationship is that we will cover for one another as well.Mm-hmm. So we communicate if somebody's gonna be non-available, that person, the other coach will be responsible to take those calls. So I try to kinda balance it the best as possible. But again, it comes down to the quality of my clients and not the quantity. I, I love them all dearly and I wanna take the very best care of them.So whatever it takes. Michael: Yeah, that's nice. That's wonderful. And then to you thinking of the general population, what needs to change for people to be more open to dentistry? Amy: Well, you know, unfortunately we live in a populace where we have a lot of patients who are very fearful of the dentist. And so they won't go, and I'd like to think that, you know, unfortunately, fortunately, COVID actually brought a lot of attention to this because it's the oral cavity, right?Oral cavity is the gateway to your systemic health. And so what I'm really, really hoping is, is that people will take their oral health very seriously. So where does that come from? It actually comes from, um, you know, children being in school and they have a hygienist.embrace your child to take them. Find a great dentist that suits you. as a patient, when you call a dental office, ask specific questions. Ask how long have they been in dentistry? What do they special? Do they do history? Uh, let let the administrator know. If you're high fear, you know, gosh, I just don't like coming to the dentist.Right? And find that right practice. That's going to love you and support you and help you in your dental journey. Okay. Michael: I like that a lot. And then, what's one of the best advice you've ever received that you can share with our listeners? Oh, Amy: in general. In general? Mm-hmm. In general, um, you know, One of our, uh, Chris Oval, this one is the best for me.I've gotten better. I've gotten better. I was not the person who was always on time, right? Mm-hmm. And I love philosophy. If you're on time, you're late, so you need to be early. And that's considered on time. I think that that was actually the best piece of advice she has ever given to me and has shown me.Because for me, when you're early to something, it shows that person that you're meeting, Hey, I'm here undivided attention. I'm waiting for you. I'm excited to meet you. So I always like to live with that, that theory of if I'm early, I'm one time. Yeah. And I'm winning. And it shows that person that they're very important.Nice. Michael: Wonderful. Awesome. Amy, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Amy: Oh, yes, you can. You can go to www.dentalpracticemanagementagency.com and you will find myself, Marissa Nicholson and Chris Hamal. Awesome. Michael: So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below.And Amy, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon. Amy: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Have you been feeling scared of the new AI technology and it's potential to take jobs away from professionals? Well, this week I'm diving in with Dr. Kathryn Alderman on the reasons we should embrace this technology! It is not here to take our jobs, it is here to boost productivity and professionalism in your practice. Dr. Alderman goes through multiple applications she has used ChatGPT for in ONE day! Just scratching the surface, Katheryn has used ChatGPT to help her craft job descriptions, ads, contracts, claim denial appeals, training materials, emails, and more. In a world where staffing is increasingly tough, why not have the equivalent of an MBA/PHD graduate on your side for free!Catch our conversation on ChatGPT here, and learn how Katheryn has been best utilizing this tool!‍You can reach out to Dr. Kathryn Alderman here:Email: progressivedentalmentor@gmail.comWebsite: https://progressivedentalmentor.com/‍Other Mentions and Links:ChatGPT‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Catherine. So talk to us about ai, artificial intelligence and chat, G P T. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help our workflow efficiency or front office tasks within the practice? Kathryn: Michael, thank you so much for inviting me today.I always love talking to you, and we have to remember that AI technology is here to maximize and supercharge our ability. So AI technology is not here to take, uh, our jobs away. Or to take, uh, jobs away from our teams. But he, the AI technology is here to simplify our workflow and maximize what we can do during the day.So in a dental office, traditionally, we all short for help and it's actually really expensive to get a quality candidates and, um, Due to labor shortage, many of the dental offices don't have enough people that, um, uh, can handle the responsibilities. So it's very important to find ways that we can use to help us to run an effective, profitable, successful dental office without an extra expense.And the shot G P T allows us to do that. That's actually free, fast. And absolutely fabulous. And it's becoming so fast that when I put a prompt in and when I ask for, uh, help with the project, it gives me the answer so fast. My eyes don't move fast enough to follow the answer. That's how fast and powerful the technology is becoming.You ask me what areas can we help with? I will run through all the areas that I have used it today for just today. In one day I wrote a content for a press release. I wrote a job description for Directable clinical operation. Not only I wrote a job description, but I also wrote, the job ad and a contract.That would go along with the job. So charge G D P gave me all the information in less than two minutes total time, describing the job, describing the job responsibilities, and that even gave me program, how to implement with job in my group. So that was one of those things. Another thing that I did is work with dental insurances on maximizing.our reimbursement fees. Jack, g d p helped me to write letters to approach dental insurances and, um, negotiate the fees. That has also helped me to write appeals and to write an appeal for denied crowns, all denied crown viewed up. That's very time consuming. We don't have time, we don't have people to do that.Not only wrote was, um, samples of, uh, appeals. It gave me multiple different versions so it doesn't sound the same and an amazing part that I couldn't write such a great appeals. I couldn't, it did a fabulous job of writing was appeals and then I said, write me clinical note to premium denials. And, uh, it did give me a clinical note So my dentist give more information to ENT was denials. That was just in one day. Actually there wasn't a first part of my day. The second part of a day I worked with my marketing team and, um, Marketing is becoming very competitive. Marketing is all about content creation. And uh, while we don't want have a content created by charging, just, we can't just copy and paste it mm-hmm.And make a blog or a post of that, but we can definitely use its help. To create a content that is really interesting and we can also take this content and we can, um, create, uh, social posts. We can create a description for YouTube videos. create videos, video content. So, so when it comes to marketing and most, most of our dental teams don't do marketing.That's something we hire out. But if the team does some marketing, for example, social posts, or maybe there is a person on the team that does, um, that does do some blog posts, uh, Chad, g p t becomes a great tool in, um, helping with the marketing. Another thing that I have been using a lot is to train my new people and onboard new people.For example, just in the last two weeks, uh, we have hired four new people, so chat, G P T helped me to create materials. To train new people and actually create a documents to explain what is a gum disease, what is the upscale procedures in the dentistry, or how to submit claims correctly to dental insurance.So tragedy p creates training materials very quickly in other ways that dental teams can use. That Somebody on a dental team doesn't know the answer. All they don't know, uh, they don't understand the procedure or the consequences of doing it all. They, they can have any question about, you know, scheduling or working with dental insurances.So a dental code. I use chat G D P a lot to pull up his information quickly. And the information is given to you so quickly. You don't have to Google anymore, you don't have to go through multiple websites or multiple answers that is provided by Google. You can simply use chat. G p P, so, This is just again, the beginning of what we. Doing with the AI technology and it's really, again, the goal destroying power us to allow us to be more effective, to allow us to maximize our ability and to really help us if we have a full team or maybe we don't have enough people on our team or.If we have people, but maybe we don't have the, all the expertise, chat, g d p can help us with all of the things that I mentioned and more, but I just described what I did on one day today, in one Michael: day. That's amazing. Yeah. So that's, it's, you utilize it all the time now, basically. Kathryn: I don't think it is a day or two hours on my day when I don't use it.And, and it's not just in a dental office. It can be for, it can be for personal life, it can be looking up health. It can be translated for my parents that speak Russian, don't speak English. Uh, for example, my mom may ask me, uh, why do I need to take this medication? Uh, And I will give a prompt to cha g d P.Then I will say, translated to Russian. It translates beautifully. I don't even speak Russian that well anymore. so, it's, it's literally a miracle. I feel that cha g p t is like a Christmas every day. It's like, It's, it's, it's just, I got this BU employee that is free, fast, efficient, intelligent, and I, it's unbelievable.It's, I compare to like, um, an MBA student, somebody that has completed MBA and PhD, and uh, and they're just here to support me. They're here to help me. So I definitely, um, think it's a great tool. It's a great tool to help and really it's almost capabilities are unlimited and all this is only the beginning.Michael: what have you seen where, okay, now this is the biggest jump we've seen with maybe marketing, maybe with the dental team, maybe with what is the biggest, where you see the needle moving?Kathryn: Well, definitely content writing for now. It's a content writing, and when we say content writing, you really, marketing becomes extremely important. But when we are talking about content writing, again, it's not just write a blogs or to optimize your website. Content writing is more than that.Content writing is right. Job descriptions, job ads or training materials to describe systems operations for your training material So it's all about content writing at this point. Just using a chat g uh, charge G p T. And soon obviously there will be more, but right now, mostly it is a content writing.But when we think about content writing, it's not just oh. I need to write a blog or I need to write a post. Let's say you are a dentist. You are busy. You don't have time to write an office manual. You don't have time to write a system, um, and create a blueprint for your office. DP can help you. You can literally log in and you can, you can ask for help.To write a system or a blueprint for how to scale patients in your office. And again, it's not gonna be perfect and it's not gonna be ideal, but it's give you a lot of, um, a lot of good information that you can take and, um, make it your oven. So content writing is the best and a content writing. It's not just for blogs on your website.It's again for. creating new training manuals, training new people, you know, creating, uh, creating materials, uh, how to handle a conflict in your office or further how to create appeals. Write an appeals to dental insurances. And, uh, you can even create, you can even use charge G P T on how to have a.How to respond to an negative Google review or how to write an email, uh, how to write an email to the patient. This is actually becomes really powerful people, most people are not great on writing emails, so I am one of those people as well. I hate writing emails. I hate hate emails, but what I do, I'll write my.You know, copy of an email and then I will put it right through chat, uh, G P T and I will say rewrite. And it just gives me this beautiful professional copy of an email so our teams can do that as well. So all of us look more professional and, um, better spoken. So, so it's, it is a content writing, but when we talk about content writing, it's involves everything that isn't written form.In a dental office, and there's so many things that we do need to put, um, that we need to still, um, create a content for. Does that Michael: make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Especially, it's not just like a blog or an article, right? It's more like, like you said, like give me a list of, of most.Possible complaints for a claim if I filed this right. Then it gives you like a list and it says, write a specific email or blog, uh, debating that claim, right? Or for if I'm a dentist, then I'll write that down and then continue, uh, so it, I can see it. Yeah, it's definitely, definitely super useful for a lot of things like that.Kathryn: My best advice for somebody is not to be afraid. My best advice is really to just start using it and not to be intimidated by that because everybody says it's all about prompts and it's all about how you ask, um, uh, question. Yes, it's right, but just. My best advice, start with a basic question. Really explain what you are trying to get and then start asking questions to add to that.So really, and you will start experiencing the power of it, you will start experiencing the power of, AI technology and you'll, you, you'll understand how to use it, but my best advice. To log in, start using it, and just start being comfortable with that because it is, the future is here. Mm-hmm. The future is here.The AI technology is gonna become part of our everyday lives and, uh, the faster we comfortable with that. We will be more comfortable to transition in a new world where we use an ai, AI technology in, in our businesses every single day. Michael: Awesome. Awesome. So besides that, any other final pieces of words or advice that you want to give to our listeners?Kathryn: Start using it and don't be afraid because I hate technology is here. So just start using it. There is really nothing secretive about it. It's really meant to be used by everybody, not just by marketers. It's like a new Google, but better. Mm-hmm. And uh, and just to start using it and You can think of anything.You can think of anything through, okay, I need to write a clinical note for skeleton root planning according to new pre grading. And you just put it in and see the magic happen because Chad, g p t will give you a clinical note based on your new grading system that, um, academy of Paleontology has.That's how advanced it is. So you can think of anything, you can think of start asking Chad g p t, and um, and don't be afraid to experiment with it. Learn it, and you will just, you will feel super charged. Super effective, and you just will, you'll feel like, wow, like this is amazing. I have, uh, I literally have, uh, gained a tool to help me be more effective, execute more throughout the day, and ultimately for my brand, for my office, um, to look more professional.it's wonderful. Michael: Awesome, Catherine, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly?Kathryn: They can email me at Progressive Dental mentor@gmail.com or they can visit me@progressivedentalmentor.com. And uh, there is a lot of other podcasts and many of your podcasts that we have done before and, uh, there is a lot of great information and all of my contact information. Michael: Awesome. So Catherine, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing Kathryn: episode.My pleasure. Thank you so much, Michael.‍‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Timothy DoolinPractice Name: Angel Fire Family DentistryCheck out Tim's Media:‍Website: http://www.angelfirefamilydentistry.com/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-tim-doolin?trk=pulse-article_social-details_comment_actor-image&original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2FEmail: angelfiredental@gmail.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:CostcoDr. HangWells FargoDDS MatchExcelOzone WaterSoftdentEaglesoftInvisalign‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Location is a big consideration in purchasing a practice! If hobbies such as surfing or skiing are important to you, keep this in mind.Demographic research is a big part of who you'll be serving, and honing in on the type of patients you want!Always keep an eye on the finances of the practice and bank records. Sometimes cash flow can feel good, but doesn't actually match up!If you're entering a practice as a new grad, don't try to change everything right away. You'll need to build trust with team members along the way.Your dental assistant is the real marketer of the practice! They handle a lot of patient communication and helping them feel at home.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Tim, how's it going? Tim: It's going well. How are you doing? I'm doing Michael: pretty good, man. Thanks for asking. If you can break it down for us, tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where Tim: you are today? Yeah, so, I grew up in Southern California Newport Beach.I went to school out in Chicago and I spent 10 years. Out there for first undergrad, masters, then dental school. And the day I graduated, I decided I wanted to own a practice and I had already prepared for the last took me about three years. So the day I graduated, I purchased my practice. I think I graduated May 20, 26th, and June 1st was my first day.And then the bank required that I did two month transition, and so the other dentist stayed on as an associate for two months, and we went from there. Basically I, I decided, I di I had decided while I was assisting another dentist during my master's program, that I wanted to own a practice. Mm-hmm.And that I probably wouldn't be the best dentist to work as an associate. just cuz I don't like following the rules, I like doing my own thing. I don't like listening to other people. So I wanted to do it my own way. And so I uh, I talked with him about owning his practice. He was basically my mentor throughout my master's and then through dental school.I worked for him as an assistant for six years, and uh, I prepared a business plan my second year. I had contacted the bank by my third year and figured out exactly what loan I qualified for and how I would qualify. So there's only one bank that will provide a. To a new grad. Mm-hmm. And they only provide, I think it was 375,000, so not nearly enough to purchase practice.So I needed to find a dentist that was willing to sell or finance half of it, at least for, I think I needed one year. Mm-hmm. Before I could get the bank to give me the rest. And so I started looking at Dennis in certain demographics. So I figured out what demographics actually. The patients that would spend the most and care the most about their teeth.And so I, I broke down everything based on demographics and figured out, okay, here's the neighborhoods where I want to be around the nation. Here's everything I fit that. There was some website that I could type it all into and, and, Breakdown demographics into exactly what neighborhoods and zip codes.So then I uh, figured out with my wife what our lifestyle should look like. And I, my big thing was I needed to be a half hour from skiing or a half hour from surfing. Yeah. Her big thing was she wanted mild weather and, and then we also both wanted to be a little bit more rural and away from a city. But ideally we wanted to be within an hour of a Costco, and that was how we started figuring everything out.And so I figured out all these different locations. I, I found a, company that would help me find the practice and broker the practice for. And then we ended up getting it down to three practices and one didn't quite fit everything. Mm-hmm. And that was this one. Uh, It wasn't that close to a Costco.So we are two hours from the nearest Costco or big box store. Really? Anything at all. Uh, Wow. So we are an hour from the nearest town of, I think it's only 30,000, and then it's two hours to the nearest city. And that's Santa Fe. And then it's three hours to Colorado Springs and three hours to Albuquerque.And so we ended up settling down in Angel Fire. It's a, a ski resort, a golf resort, and that's about it. Michael: Okay, man. So those were outta the three practices. And so what happened then after that, you decided to purchase it? Yeah. Yeah. Tim: So we came and visited this practice and the practice itself. Pretty incredible.Um, My view out every window is mountains and so my patient's view is 360 mountain views. It's just incredible. Or 180, I guess behind them is me. But yeah, we've got these crazy windows that just look out into the mountains and it was really hard to say no. And the practice was doing okay, but I could tell it was underperforming cuz the dentist just, his heart really wasn't.And so I thought, you know, if I really try here, what would it look like and how could the numbers look? And I found after the first year, I had increased everything about 20 to 30%. And that was my first year outta a dental school. I was able to do that. Fortunately, most patients didn't think I was a new grad.And I didn't really make it known to anyone. I don't think anyone still knows. So it was, and the way that they introduced me was that I was an experienced dentist who graduated top of his class and was ready to take on taking care of everyone. Then I created a, a really good relationship with uh, some of the local doctors. One doctor in specific who owns a medical clinic down the road. And we started building a, a relationship based on whole body care. And so the practice turned from being a drill and fill practice to now we are comprehensive care of what's going on, how can we help you for the future, and what can I do to make sure.We're really taking care of you. and not only are you seeing me, but we're making sure that you're seeing a, whatever practitioner you need to be seeing to get the proper care. Michael: Okay, man. And that's what you're doing right now Tim: as of today? Yes. Yeah. So that's what I currently do. And because of that, I, I mean, I'm pretty rural, the nearest specialist is two hours, so I do every specialty, uh, as well as whatever dentistry I need to do.Mm-hmm. And then we, on top of all of that, make sure that we're taking care of. Whole health. So every patient is educated on their diet, they're educated on what might be going on with their breathing, what might be going on underneath the surface, why their blood pressure is out of control what I can do from a oral perspective, or even sometimes nasal perspective, what might be causing everything here to be out of whack.Mm Michael: Gotcha man. Okay. So then how long have you been a practice owner? Tim: This is my fourth year now. Okay. Michael: Okay. So rewind a little bit real quick. You were, yeah. You grew up in Newport? Yeah. Newport be like, where? Where? Tim: In Newport. So I, I grew up, actually the smallest house on the beach in all of Newport was my house.We were, we were one house off the beach. It was a family of five and it was about 750 square feet and we were not allowed inside ever. We could sleep and that was about it cuz it was. I think when we purchased it, it was a one bedroom and my dad turned the garage into a master suite and then um, he turned, there was like a little breakfast nook area into another bedroom kind of thing.Yeah. So he, when I was 10, I got to move into the breakfast nook area. And I mean, it was a tiny house, but we didn't care at all cuz we were on the beach. Yeah. Or right off the beach. So you grew up surfing or No. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Michael: Yeah. Cause you're like, we gotta surf or ski, and I was like, okay.Tim: Yeah, absolutely. So there was many days in high school where it was I would go surfing in the morning and go skiing in the afternoon or vice versa. Michael: Yeah. Nice dude. Okay, so then you eventually prepared to own your own practice. When did you. When was it where you're like, I don't think I'm gonna be an associate for like in dental school.Did you figure that out or before dental school? Like when was the Tim: moment? It was probably first year of dental school. I started looking at the numbers of what an associate makes versus what my loans were gonna look like. I knew that going into dental school, having $600,000 of student debt was pretty standard at this point.Mm-hmm. My parents unfortunately weren't able to help me much with school, and I knew that it was going to be an investment for my future, and so I decided what is it going to look like to pay those loans off? And I could be an associate and make a certain. Or I could own my practice and if my practice is successful, I'll be able to pay it off way easier.And, and that's what I figured out cuz first year they kind of go through all the numbers with you. You have all those classes that are talking to you about, here's what your loans are gonna look like, here's what the average dentist makes graduating school. Here's what the average associate makes versus the average owner, and then here's what rural versus not rural makes.Mm-hmm. And so I broke all that down. I figured out where the dentist. Are that are making the most money. Um, And I figured out what I wanted to do and what I wanted all to look like, and by the end of first year, I knew exactly where I wanted to go with it. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So then how did you know what to put in this plan?What was actually in it? What do you wish you would've put in it now, things like that. Tim: Yeah, so basically what I started with was a mission statement and a vision statement. So my mission was that I wanted to provide care that was different than the standard dentist. And I, I broke down a few different things.I didn't really think of a holistic or whole body approach to anything. It was more of I want my patients to be educated and I didn't want to be ever selling anything to a. And that was kind of the whole moral of everything that I had talked about with the banks was my practice will never be about selling.It'll never be about marketing myself. I will use patients to market, and I will make sure that when I present a treatment plan, a patient is fully educated and they're making the decision that they feel is best for themselves. Now, that in itself is a sales technique. And I had worked in sales throughout school doing different things and whatever it might have been.But I, I wanted to make sure that I was different in that way. Cause I never wanted to feel like the, the mechanic who, you know, you go in for the oil change and all of a sudden you've got all these issues. I didn't want to be that dentist too. You go in for your cleaning and all of a sudden you've got issues.Yes. That's how we find your issues is you go in for a cleaning, but it should never feel like you're trying to be sold something. I wanted to always educate and so everything was based around technology. There's so much technology for us to be able to educate a patient with, and if we show everyone.Everything that's going on in their mouth, there's no reason that we should have to sell them on something. And so that's what it was based on. So that was kind of the mission. And yeah, I broke it down all in too. I think it was. Two sentences, and then the vision statement had a few different points to it on how I was gonna become a top 10% dentist in the state of New Mexico.How I was going to make sure that I was providing nonprofit work, how I was going to integrate the, all of their care. So make sure that I was communicating with their doctor their chiropractor. P t o t, whatever they might be involved in, so that way we can come up with comprehensive plans. I know there was four points and I can't remember the fourth one, but it started with those two and then I outlined every way that I would possibly do it.I outlined all the equipment that I would need to do it. I, I showed my certifications and what certifications I would be getting, so like lasers and, and certifications in different types of lasers and how I would introduce those into the practice to make sure that I was providing different level of care. And then, um, I talked about C B C T and the importance of C B C T. Yes, the cost of C B C T, but how it can benefit a patient. Intraoral scanning, same thing. And then I broke down point by point, the finances of the practice. I broke down how I would treat every patient. I, I mean, it was 40 pages of right.Every single thing that I could possibly do. And so that was any free time I had second year of dental school. That's what I was doing, was making sure that I had a perfect business plan. Okay, Michael: ma did, has any of that changed or evolved or grown or anything like that, or Tim: no? Yeah, so I mean, the biggest thing that's evolved from.I wouldn't say anything's ever been eliminated. It's more of evolved now with Covid, I did have to change the nonprofit work. I'm not allowed. So we aren't allowed to go to Haiti anymore. And that's where I was doing a lot of my nonprofit work. And so I've been contacting a few different companies now that countries are starting to open up of where I'll go, start working again.Mm-hmm. But I've always done nonprofit work. And then as part of that I started bringing Medicaid patients into the practice and I've opened up the practice to be, well now I'm probably the largest Medicaid provider in Northern New Mexico. I do over a million dollars in Medicaid every year.But you know, that's just my way, that I'm in the middle of nowhere. I, I need to be able to take care of these patients and I've seen the work that comes from. The other providers, and it's unfortunate. They don't have the time, they don't have the resources to, to truly take care of these patients.I don't know if they don't have the education as well, but unfortunately there's a lot of stuff that's missed and the patients come to me with them trying to have things fixed, and so I try to put it all back together. And a lot of the time you can't get paid cuz Medicaid will only pay for something every few years.And so after a patient's already had it done, you basically have to eat the cost. And so I started a nonprofit where I can eat that cost and count it as a donation. And then another big part that has evolved is the whole body care. Mm-hmm. Where now I am involving breathing into the office and a lot of sleep type medicine.A lot of facial focus and, and focus on posture and different things that are going on with the, the facial development and, and children. In adults, what might have gone wrong with their facial development? I've taken some classes and now done the, the certification for orthotropics with Dr. Hang and then I've also done the homeo block and all the d n A appliance type stuff to try and correct some of the issues that have been created from our diets and, and gone through like the western price type stuff as well.And so there's a lot of underlying stuff that I never imagined myself getting into. Michael: Yeah, no man. That's a lot. Yeah. And we'll dive into that right now, but um, rewind a little bit. And you said you went with a bank. There's only one bank you said that would require Tim: you get loan. When I was doing it, what bank was that?Wells. yeah, so Wells Fargo offered 375,000 and it was pretty good rate too. Um, I wanna say it was only like 3.5%, so it was a decent loan, especially for a new grad, but, That was the absolute max that they would cover. And so you had to get everything else financed some other way. Mm-hmm. And so I was able to get the rest of the practice seller financed and then he also threw in the building as a seller financed, and then I got it all refinanced about a year and a half later.Hmm. Okay. Michael: Gotcha. And then you said there was a company that helped you find or broker the practice and find the practice, right? Yeah. Like what company was. Tim: Yeah, so I used d d S match and they were incredible, especially as a a port student. They didn't charge. Buyer anything. And so they were incredible in finding all these different practices.And I basically listed out everything for the broker of, here's what I'm looking for, here's all of my stuff. And then he would send me the numbers for different practices in the area that were going up for sale. And this one actually wasn't for sale. He was looking for an associate at the. And after talking with me and, and working together for a little bit, he decided, you know what?Let's sell and, and that's gonna be the best way to go. Michael: So you were already working there and before thinking about buying it, or you're like, Tim: Hey on. No, no, no, no. I, I had never even, I, I've been. Twice since buy or before buying it. I visited just the one time during my spring break and one time during Christmas break actually.So I decided instead of flying home that I would drive home to California from Chicago. And we would stop by New Mexico as a, a halfway point. So me and my wife drove the whole distance and figured, all right, we'll, we'll take a look and, and see how it goes. And she actually was the one that made the final decision on here instead of the, the other location that we were looking at at the very end.Yeah. Yeah. Michael: Happy wife. Happy life, man. You're right. Yeah. So then how did you increase everything from 20 to 30% when you acquire? Tim: Yeah. So big things that he was doing was he was very focused on trying to sell things. And like I said, that was never my focus. And because of that, I think that, I think as soon as you're trying to sell things, people notice.Mm-hmm. And people feel like you're trying, they're trying to be sold on a product or whatever it might be, as well as he didn't offer patients that he didn't think could afford things. The other options, And. I mean, people pull out straight cash if they really want it. Yes. We've got a lot of ranchers around here who you'd never, you'd never think we have as much cash as they do under their mattress.And as well as, you know, we work out trades with patients. I have a patient who painted my whole house, painted the whole hot office because he wanted to get implants under his dentures. And so we traded for implants and he painted everything for me. And so I've been able to work out a lot of deals with like that actually I just did a, a huge bridge and crown work case on a patient who just decorated my office with his photos.And so he's a very well known photographer in the area, and his photos are, Pretty good Penny. And yeah, he, he traded me a few of his photos for some implant or for some crown and bridgework. Oh, nice. And so, yeah, we find ways to do things that. I don't think the other dentist really ever thought would exist up here.Mm-hmm. Um, Or he never thought that these people would be willing to pay for things. And as soon as you educate them on the importance of it, and you show them what things can really look like and you find unique ways of showing them through all the technology that we have, I mean, it's incredible what people want.And, and that's really what it is. And he, he wasn't really at that point, I think he was in his mind, on his way out, but he had never really gotten to where this practice is right now. because I don't think he had the right personality for it and he just didn't have the right outlook.Yeah. Michael: Oh, interesting. And then how did you create great relationships with the doctors in, in your Tim: area? Yeah, so, The one, she actually, when I moved to the practice, she initially left the practice because she found out that I was young and she was like, I don't want this fresh dentist working on me. And now we're like best friends.And, and so I decided that my child was gonna go to that office cuz I didn't know that she had left. Uh, I found this out way later now that we're friends. And so she uh, started seeing my child and my wife. We started talking about the different things uh, that we look at and how I look at dentistry.And, and that was where the relationship started. And then as I started developing new products and getting into new things in dentistry. Most people don't know about the different sleep appliances and homeo, block, orthotropics, that type of stuff. Then I would go and teach at the office. And so I would go to the office and, and do a lunch and learn, bring lunch for everyone and, and teach them about Orthotropics or the homeo block, show them what it all looks like, show them before and after photos on patients that have been through it.And we just started creating that relationship. And then we started working together on specific cases and it's gone from there. Now she's introduced me to her network of doctors with different specialists. So I refer often to an E N T. First stuff that I'll find on A C B C T. If I find nasal polyps or deviated septums severe tonsils stuff I'll refer over to him and we've created this awesome relationship between, between the few of us doctors.Tim Doolin DRAFT: Dude, Michael: that's awesome, man. So then let's, if I could dive into your business a little bit more. Yeah. What's production and collections looking like for. Tim: Yeah, so, so with Medicaid, Medicaid's a rough one. Mm-hmm. Um, my production in Medicaid is about 1.8 million, and on that 1.8 million, I collect about 800,000.after all of that, I also collect an additional 600,000. that's yearly. Yeah. And so yearly we're, last year was a little bit worse. We had an issue with our office manager and she wasn't collecting where we didn't realize she wasn't collecting. And so now when I was looking at the end of year numbers, things were a little bit sadder.And next year will be severely inflated because we're backdating everything and, and figuring it all out with the insurance companies. Because Medicaid just has a lot of hoops for you to jump through, and you, if you don't do it in the proper order, you don't get paid. And so that's what she had kind of skipped out on.And so there was a lot that we didn't collect. And so, I think our number, our final numbers were 1.3 last year. Okay. Oh, Michael: so wait, real quick. Your office manager didn't collect, or was she taken home? Or what was, what was going on? Tim: So she just wasn't properly submitting things. And then she would write off the patient like it was being collected because she knew exactly the numbers that should have been collected.But then when I started checking the bank accounts, I could see that the checks weren't matching up. And Tim Doolin DRAFT: what Michael: was your initial thought? What were you like, how did this conversation go down? Tim: Um, It was, well, what the hell's going on? Yeah, I, I wanted to kill her, Michael: but, so you, you confronted her, or obviously you did, but like, how did this go down?So, so Tim: she had actually left. Oh. And so she just ghosted us. One day d just did not show up and that's when I started really digging in deep to, okay, what was going on here? And it had gone on for the last, like two and a half months, and I had just had an infant daughter, so I wasn't paying as close of attention as I had been before in the past.And, and that's what allowed for it is I just wasn't as present as I normally had been. My, I didn't really care about getting the numbers daily or the graphs and all of that and checking the accounts, and it was a really unfortunate mistake. But I mean, we we're. It seems like we're able to catch up on 90% of it and collect most of it.It's just there was a lot that was missed. Looking back, Michael: what were the signs where you're like, oh, man, if somebody were to tell you like, Hey, my office manager's doing this too, you're like, dude, she's gonna ghost you, her, or what would, what are the Tim: Yeah. Um, She started not being as present. Not wanting to report things to us.Cuz my o my wife is also part of the office mm-hmm. And, and does most of the HR type work. And so she's the one who will get the reports daily. And I mean, my wife was no sleep for months, so she wasn't. Caring if there wasn't a report sent, and then she would also be the one that would check the numbers.You know, even just like cash. If we get cash, we will verify the cash with the patient with the transaction and make sure that it all matches up. And we don't do it for everyone, but we make sure that we do it. We do spot checks so that it all, so there is no issues. Mm-hmm. And yeah, she just started not being present with us.So not sending those things. We had a consultant and she wasn't really reporting any of the stuff to the consultant, which is always sketchy. But you know, we figured, okay, she's got all this stuff going on. Maybe, maybe she's just busy or she doesn't wanna bother us cuz we've got an infant daughter at home.and really we just didn't care as much as we should have been. You know, it's something that if it was a year earlier, there's no chance it would've gone more than a week with me. Um, Normally I make sure that I have weekly reports, monthly reports and sometimes even daily reports depending on what it is.so she'll post the, normally my office manager will post daily numbers for a collection, production, new patient scene and total patient scene, and they'll post it into my Excel sheet and it'll all start adding up. And then she has to give me the monthly report at the end of the month. That shows all of the numbers based on my previous numbers and based on, all of that, I have these algorithms that figure.What should it all have looked like? I basically created it all myself just because I don't like a lot of the systems that I was given by consultants and, the different practice managers or practice management groups that I had talked to. Mm-hmm. And so I created my own Excel sheets and then my own algorithms, and that's how we would always figure it out.But yeah, for the two and a half months after my daughter's birth, Kinda let it all go. Yeah. Michael: Hey, why didn't you like, what the real quick rewind. You said you hired a consultant, right? Yeah. What, who Tim: was it? So, oh man. Who was the group? We didn't get along with them. I'll, I'll leave it at that. Um, We didn't do very well with them because this all happened under their nose, you know, we, oh, really?We hired them because we were going through a big transition, not with having a baby. Not only with having a baby, but also with the fact that um, we had these two sisters that were working with, That were pretty much in charge of the office before they made all the decisions. They, they helped with everything.And as I started changing more and more of the office from the old culture, they started not being okay with a lot of it. And I told them, well, you know what? Let's just plan a civil way out and go from there. And so that's what we did. I hired a consultant. They were supposed to help us with the transition, hire this other.And they had told us, you know, we'll work with you for this period of time. So they were still working with us. It was towards the end of the time that they were working with us. And so those girls had left. Now it's been two and a half years. Mm-hmm. And so it was like 18 months into, this happened at the beginning of last year, and so 18 months into everything.this lady was starting to not listen to anyone and they didn't say anything. They didn't stop anything. They just kind of went their way. I think may mostly because we weren't communicating as much with them because of the baby. And us being kind of distracted, but yeah, it didn't go very well.Why, Michael: why did you go with. Tim: Um, I went with them cuz they had a good presentation to start. Okay. You know, they had good reviews from a lot of other dentists. And the biggest thing was I was, I was considering taking on a, on an associate cuz I see way too many patients. today I only had a half day and I saw 40 patients.Wow. And it, it's, it's a lot. Yeah. And so I have debated taking on an associate. I just don't really have enough chairs and so I'd have to build out to do that. There's this girl that's interned with us the last three summers, who's gonna be in dental school next year. And I've talked to her about potentially being an associate because it's also hard to convince someone to move to the middle of nowhere where we're at.They have to enjoy the lifestyle up here and yeah, it's an awesome lifestyle, but you also have to be okay not seeing people very often. Yeah. Costco. And, and so yeah, it just wasn't right for us, but they were, they were highly recommended by everyone. Okay. So Michael: then what was the systems you created right now where you're like, this is it, this is my own algorithm that you can kind of share with us where if we're not happy, You know what I mean? Oh my God. This is the system. Is this the only thing that exists out there? I guess so kind of thing, you know, in Tim: terms of my numbers? Yeah. The numbers that I use in my dashboard. Yeah. So, um, I, I created a few different numbers that will basically take into account how many days are worked. How many patients are seen and the, the collection itself, because so often you'll see that the algorithms from the companies will just be based on, okay, here's the collections for this day and it doesn't really take anything else into account.And then they'll break down collections per day's worked, but that's about. And so I'll u I'll make a number that's based on patient scene, that's based on day's worked. Um, It's based on the collections and then it's also based on the new patients, oh, and then hygiene. And so I take all of those things into account on my Excel sheet, and I have a algorithm that I created that includes all of those numbers to create a true collection.And I don't even remember what I call it. I think I call it adjusted collections. Mm-hmm. And so my adjusted collections, my ADU adjusted production, I should see trend lines from that. And then my trend lines are all based on the last three months and the average of the last three months and where they should go.And so I should know, you know, based on how many days I worked, here's where the numbers should be at, or here's where they should be for the next three months. And then that's also where I'll create goals for my team. And then we reward substantially if the goals are reached. And so we create games based on that.And it's all based on my adjusted numbers. So what things should be not based on. Not based on straight numbers, but based on criteria that go into those numbers. Um, Because a lot of the times that just isn't taken into account and up here, you know, like today I had a half day because we have, we've gotten so much snow since 10:00 AM this morning that all my patients sh canceled.Yeah. that's a normal thing. So, you know, if I wasn't talking to you, I probably would've gone skiing instead today. Michael: Got you, man. What do you, how do you reward. What rewards do you give them? Straight cash. Okay. Nice. Steve. And is it like, what's the cash looking like here? Tim: So like last month they got a reward.The hygienist I think got 550 each. The assistants got two 50 each and the front desk were like 300. It was somewhere like that. What is Michael: the goals for the front? Tim: so everyone's goal is still the same. Everything is based on collections. And then I will I'll give them more of a reward or less of a reward based on their specific categories.So the front desk is going to be appointments kept appointments canceled. No shows. No shows is a big one in New Mexico. I don't know how it has been in the rest of the world, but. We joke about it being the land of manana. It is, people do not show up to things here. And so it, that was a severe problem when I got here.It was very normal to see in one day, six to seven people just not show up to their appointment at all for no reason. outside of, yeah, I just didn't feel like coming. And so that's a big part of the front desk. Then like my assistants is I'll tell them it's treatment plan acceptance, because they're a big part of making sure that everything is accepted.They're a big part of making sure that the culture of the office is awesome. And so it's also how many new patients, because they are. They're basically my marketing team. The assistants are the marketing team and making sure that someone from the second they walk in the door to the second they leave.They feel like they're part of our family, they feel awesome, and it should feel like a different experience. You know, the assistant's getting 'em a warm towel at the end of their appointment to make everything feel a little bit more like a spa, getting them. We have like ozone water that we'll use in different procedures and we make the ozone in the office so the assistant can talk to them.Yeah, here's what ozone water is and why it helps. And so the assistants are part of that education. And part of that marketing because when someone hears all this stuff, they're, they get excited about it and they go tell their friends like, Hey, guess what I experienced at the dentist? Mm-hmm. This was really different.and that's what we get all the time. I would say that's at least half of our new patients are because of an assistant said something and, and then we hear. Nice. Michael: Okay man. So then like that's how you can kind of, do you ever get an assistant where, or have you ever gotten one where they're like, that's not my job.I'm here to just assist you, kind of thing. Or maybe their conduct or attitude kind of showed that and you're like, Tim: yeah, they don't work for me anymore. Michael: How do you, how do you um, my guests give them, Or have you ever had to talk to one and be like, this is how it is here, kind of thing, right? Yeah. This is the office culture.And then they did work and then it happened. Tim: Yeah, Yeah, so actually one of my best assistants right now she started as a very quiet girl. She didn't wanna talk to the patients. She was really good at assisting. And so that was what kept me trying to work with. She didn't really want to have communication with the patient.She was afraid of talking and being wrong about something and, and so I had to coach her a lot on, Hey, this is exciting. It's cool to teach someone this stuff. And, and when you start educating them on all the, the benefits, The different things that we provide and start teaching them what really can be awesome about taking care of teeth.They get excited about it. And so she started just talking about things as if, you know, she knew everything there was to talk about. Yeah. And now she's become friends with a lot of the patients. Uh, A lot of the patients will stop her on the street throughout town because yes, we are a small town here, but she doesn't actually even live here.She commutes uh, 45 minutes from the town over, and that town is 30,000. So, I see her in the plaza and she's hanging out with patients now and it's really cool to see. And then my other assistant, it was no issue because she was already that type of person. And when we hired her, we knew right away that she was gonna be perfect for it.She had always kind of been in customer service jobs. But never had a career type job. It was always like, okay, I'm gonna work in retail here, or front desk there. And she just hopped around and she's been with us now two years and she's doing incredible, dude. Michael: That's nice, man. That's really, really good.So then let's talk about that severe problem no shows. Yeah, because I always think like, man, if you can figure a way to eliminate that, you'd be like a bajillionaire. So how did you, how did you start Tim: minimizing. I mean, the biggest one was we started charging for it. Really? Yeah. So it's a hundred dollars no show fee.And do you actually Michael: charge, or are you kind of like, we're gonna waive it this one time? I understand. We have only Tim: charged it, I think since, so we started implementing it about six months ago. I think we've only charged it three times. But what we did is we added it into the. To tooth places, so mm-hmm.In the new patient the phone call, that script, it's in there now. And so when the, our front desk talks to a new patient, she brings it up. It's also in there for a patient who hasn't been with us for a while, and then we put it on a um, there's a contract that they sign when they come into the office.Fortunately, we also changed our software. And so it became an excuse to have them refill out all their paperwork. And in the paperwork it set, there's one whole sheet that talks about our no-show and our late fee. And if you are, if you no-show on us, it's a hundred dollars fee. If you are late, we have the right to give your appointment to someone else.and so we just started changing the culture. We were blessed with a, a front desk lady who's just incredible at mm-hmm. Being very straightforward with people. She has no problem talking about the NoHo fee with every patient. She'll take credit cards from a new patient. So if a new patient is setting up their appointment, she'll take a credit card from them and say, yeah, well we're gonna charge you if you don't show up to this appointment.So you need to be here. Yeah. And it, it absolutely has changed things. I mean, we've had people during snowstorms say, no, I have to come because I have a hundred dollars fee if I don't show up. And they've got no car that can make it. And they're calling us frantically trying to figure out how they can get there.Yeah. And so it's really been a, a, the easiest way to try and make sure it works, but we haven't really had to charge it. The only times where I've charged people is there's the occasional patient and it's usually a a state insurance person who says, no, my, my insurance will pay for that. Yeah, no, your insurance is not gonna pay for that. And you're gonna learn that you need to be more responsible. What do they get upset? Yeah, they absolutely do, but I'm also the only provider in the area for Medicaid, so. Oh, that's true. They can either not take care of it or they can pay that fee.I mean, that's a lot of the time what it is, but. We fortunately, really haven't had to charge it. Yeah. So Michael: Interesting. Okay, man. You said you changed software system Tim: to Yeah, so we changed from um, what was the old one? He was using a really old system and I kept it around again. I had the, the old team that I inherited, and so I wanted to change things really slow when I bought the office.Mm-hmm. And so I kept the old system. I can't even remember what was Soft Dent. That's what it was. Mm. And it was the old version of Soft Dent and it was the downloaded version, so it wasn't ever truly updated, like their new version is, and they have like their cloud version that they use. And we changed to Eaglesoft now.Michael: Okay, cool man. Cool. Eaglesoft. So then let's fast forward now. Now what you're doing, you have a bigger vision, right? You wanna do. Do you want, what do you wanna do, Tim? Do you wanna just like be there, be this pr or what Tim: is your vision here? Yeah, so, my next goal is to build a new clinic. So I would like to build a clinic that is different from every other clinic that I have ever been to.And it's going to be an integrative care center where you go to and we provide, Whole health care in a way that is very technology savvy. So you go in and we use every piece of technology we can to basically give you a tour of your body and the dentist and the doctor don't even need to be there for the tour, but we're gonna give you a tour based on blood work, based on different scans.Cuz I mean they've got all sorts of body scans they can do now that are super easy, super fast. I mean my scale now tells me. What percentage of my fat is located in water weight versus, you know, actual fat versus bone density. Mm-hmm. And it, all, it is, is a scale, you know, and that's a, a minimal one.And they've got all these crazy things that they can do now. And so the doctor that I'm working with at, we were, we want to build a clinic that integrates all of that technology along with blood draw and the dental scans that we can do between a C B C T and a 3D scan and go through a PA with a patient, every single thing that we can in their body and where the form and function is going wrong, and we can relate.Okay. Your face isn't developed in this way. You've got a posture and balance going like this. Your bite is also in balance because your posture is misaligned now you aren't breathing right, and, and we talk about it all and then correlate how we can change function at home and what they're doing at home to make it all better and, and basically make a new specialty out of it.So then Michael: this is planning to Tim: launch. We haven't decided. So we're actually uh, me and her are working with, some people out of the country and we are, there's some other places out of the country that are doing similar things. Now the people that we're working with are all billionaires and that's who we're providing this care to.And we want to make it a, a standard office experience because where this care is being provided in other places, it's at beautiful resorts that, you know, we get invited to and we build this care facility as a, just a makeshift facility that looks awesome and works really well, just with a couple pieces of equip.Because most of the stuff can travel and then her expertise can travel very easily and my expertise can travel very easily as well. So they just bring us in a couple pieces of equipment and we can set up a, he a healthcare facility and provide what we can just through educating people. And then we would like to though bring that to the us.We would like to make it a, a standard way that people can get healthcare. So Michael: you're doing this already in, you're doing Tim: it like you're going out there. And so My problem is I haven't been able to get licensed in the other country yet. Uhhuh, I have to take their board exam in September. And so I am hopefully gonna be taking all that and, and then providing all the care over there.What's the other country, but Maldives. Michael: Oh, oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Billionaire. Yeah. Okay, man. It's nice though. It's nice. Yeah. So you're going to do that Tim: here? So the, yeah, that's, that would be my goal is to bring. Bring that type of care here where we can teach people how to take care of themselves in a better way, without medications, without, and, and that's, that's really the issue.And what we have to figure out and what we haven't yet figured out is how do you bill all of this? Because it's difficult to bill knowledge and it's difficult to bill education through insurance. Mm-hmm. And so, That's where we are currently at a roadblock and, and trying to figure out, you know, how can we code this and, and what can we do for it?And maybe we end up coding it as family practice and, and standard care like that. I'm not entirely sure yet, but yeah, we've already picked out a few different locations that we have considered. And hopefully, we'll, we'll get something started pretty soon in terms of, getting at least the dental and medical portion built.But I want a chiropractor involved. I want to have uh, PT and OT involved in as well, and, and really get as many doctors on board as I can. Michael: Man, that's gonna be exciting, man. That's gonna be really, really exciting. Tim: I hope it, it turns into something. It's just, we don't really know what it's all gonna look like yet.Let me Michael: know when you open up the investors round. I have like my savings, which is five bucks. I'll, I'll put it in your van, I'll throw you, but no, that's gonna be exciting. Throughout this process, Tim, I guess from the moment that you decided to do your business plan for your practice till today, what's been some of your biggest struggles or, or pitfalls or fails?Tim: Biggest struggles and pitfalls. I mean, really a, a big portion of its time. Building the business plan takes a long time. Getting financing was a ton of hoops. Banks do not trust a, a new grad, that is not a thing anymore. That used to be a thing. a lot of dentists who were graduating 20 years ago, That was normal to build a practice and not become an associate right away.That is no longer the case. Banks don't want to give you money, even though dental loans are proven to be one of the least risk loans that you can, that a bank can give out. Mm-hmm. But. They still don't. And so I talked to bank, after bank, after bank, trying to convince them based on my business plan, based on everything that I had, and even though I had put in all the work that I did, they still did not wanna give me the money.that was really the hardest part. And then it was finding, finding the right team, because you know, you have to find an attorney, you have to find an account. And I was a student, I didn't have any money. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these people had to work for me off of the, the fact that I was going to have that loan come through on whatever date and then I was going to pay them.And so I had to work extremely hard to find people that would work for me, despite me not having money on hand. And basically they worked for the day, the contract was signed, here is what we get paid. And so I was very fortunate and I worked incredibly hard to find that team. And it was a lot of making connections, going to dental conventions, finding, finding the right people at the conventions.And then one person would introduce me to another person would introduce me to another person, and, and we'd kind of go from there. And that was really the, the biggest advantage was in having that mentor that I had. He was able to introduce me to people that trusted him, and then because they already had trust in him, then they would trust me.And then once we had a conversation and I would explain, here's everything that I can do, they would jump on board. But yeah, it was incredibly difficult building that team. And then when I bought the practice, Really the hardest thing was convincing a team of people who had been in the business for, I don't think there was anyone who had not been in dentistry for less than 10 years.Mm-hmm. And I had to convince them to trust me who was, had graduated three days ago. And so I had to go from absolutely nothing to, okay, now these hygienists have to trust my treatment plan. that's where I did, I had to follow the old dentist and figure out exactly what he would do.Uh, And so I actually. Had him send me 20 cases before I went over there of the x-rays and then the the treatment plan that he came up with from the x-rays, so that way I could figure out how he planned and what it all looked like. And then I figured out that it was also based on insurance, how he would plan.And so I basically copied his treatment planning strategies for the firs

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Mary PhamPractice Name: Lollipop DentalCheck out Mary's Media:‍Website: https://lollipopdental.com/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lollipop-pediatric-dentistryLollipop Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lollipopdental/?hl=enSweet Smiles Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sweetsmilesortho/?hl=enWomen Dentist Entrepreneur (WDE) Facebook Page: https://m.facebook.com/groups/379332796353702/Email: drmary@lollipopdental.com‍‍Other Mentions and Links:HootersKaplan Test PrepDAT - Dental Admission TestDentistry of USCDr. Gardner BealeUniversity of ChicagoLake Forest Lollipop DentalIn-N-Out BurgerBill GatesYelpDEO Mastermind GroupDenti-Cal‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Your goals and vision may shift over time! Take this into account when making decisions.Your first 2 practices may get by without systematization, but this is essential when jumping to 3+ practices!You do not have to be a boutique fee for service practice to be profitable.When talking to patients, never come across as judgmental or condescending. Always talk to them like you would your bestie.If the teammate you let go is surprised, you may need to improve your performance checkup process.One person can manage five to seven people effectively. Much more than that and you need to hire!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Mary, how's it going? Mary: Everything is going great, Michael. Thank you for having Michael: me. No, thank you for being on. If you don't mind me asking, I know you told me before we started recording, but where are you located? Mary: We are in Orange County, California.Our offices are in Orange County and Los Angeles County. Actually, we're we're expanding a little bit. Michael: Really? Why Los Angeles? Mary: It's still within driving distance to Orange County. So currently with our offices, we still like to be really present in them, at least visit them once a month or so, and mm-hmm.Now we just wanna drive, make it like a 30, 45 minute drive and, um, and we have patients that live in LA County that want us there. So we decided to serve our patients. Michael: What, how many practices do you Mary: could have? So we have seven currently. And, um, I think we're gonna just keep going. We're having fun doing it.So, Michael: uh, you make it sound like so, so funny, like, you know, let's just keep going and build. And so before we dive into that, tell us a little bit about your past, present. How'd you get to where you are today? Mary: Initially, I actually didn't think I was gonna be a dentist. Mm-hmm. I, I wanted to be an ob gyn.My parents were like the typical Asian tiger parents and wanted everyone to be a doctor. So I applied to med school. I was a med school reject, and um, I moved to Houston, Texas against my parents' wishes and became a Hooters girl. So I loved, so I worked there and then I met a dentist actually at the end of my shift.And she came in, she had some chicken wings and we were just chatting and she was like, you should really consider dental school. And then I was like, nah, I don't wanna be a dentist. I don't wanna be in people's mouth all day. But then she, she was like, all you have to do is take the d a t, see how you do and it'll just open more doors for you, so you should try it out.Mm-hmm. So I took the, I decided to focus, I took this KAPLAN course and I took the d a t and I did acceptable enough to get into U S C dental school, and I guess that paved the way for me and dentistry. And so, um, went to dental school not knowing much about dentistry at. And, um, I did pretty well in dental school, to where one of my mentors, Dr.Gardner Beal, um, he encouraged me to pursue pediatric dentistry because he saw during my pediatric rotation that he's like, oh, Mary, you're really, really good with kids. You should consider pe. And I was like, nah, I'm ready to start working. Make some money. So, you know, start my career. And he is like, well, let's just, you know, pr be a part of the pediatric selective and just, you know, you'll have fun.You, um, you really seem like you like it. And he encouraged me to apply to pediatrics. And then I got into pediatrics at the University of Illinois and Chicago and I finished my residency. me and my husband got married. He's an orthodontist and he decided to, Settle in Orange County, and that's how we ended up here.and of course, because he's an orthodontist, he's like, I want my pediatric dentist wife to refer me all the patients, so I never have to do any marketing ever again. So, within the year I just opened a startup. and it was just like, luck, you know, we, we thought we were gonna open in this city. It didn't work out.At the time, you're very discouraged because you're looking at all of these locations that you think you wanna work in. However, everything doesn't align the way that you, thought that it would. And so, um, we ended up finding our first location in placenta. The contractor was, you know, who we're still there today and he owns the building and he's like, you know what, Mary?Like this is the last suite in this building. I'll pay for everything. I'll pay for to build it out. I'll pay for whatever you need. So you just put the equipment in and it's yours. And so I. And I didn't have much of a startup cost there except for the equipment and a little bit of upgrades and it costs.But besides that, I was really fortunate in that I found them. And so, um, from there, we, I would say within the first three years we became busy, you know, um, our model is, Give everyone a reason to smile. And what we mean by that is everyone, no matter what type of insurance you have, no matter what your socioeconomic status is, we think that every child deserves quality, specialty, dental care, if the parents choose that, so, You know, we're not picky with being like a fee for service or a PPL only.We cater to everyone with the best technology and with specialty care. And so that has just been our business model. And when we realized that we're able to become profitable while seeing all different types of payers, It really became something that we loved. You know, like I didn't wanna just serve fee for service patients.You know, like, how could I develop this business model that can be profitable, but, and also doing what I love, so, That was really fulfilling. and then we started growing really fast to where we decided to open in different locations where our patients were asking us. So we just opened our Lake Forest location a couple of months ago, and I would say 80% of the patients that come through are, were our patients that visited another location.Moved to South Orange County to where they're like, oh my gosh, we're so glad you're here. And I'm like, you spoke, we listened. You said you guys need an open one in South Orange County. So here we are. so that's kind of where we are today. and it's still a really fun ride. You know, I think when people start to scale by the second or third location, they.Start to get stressed out. Like what worked at one location doesn't always work with two, and what works at two doesn't always work with three. But once you get to three or four and you've systemized a lot of things, it really helps with scaling. And so, um, and so yeah, it's a, it's a fun time for us and, and it also scaling allows your team to have growth opportunities.You know, like if you're in a single location, then you might just be a dental assistant, maybe like a lead. But then where is it? Where else can you go right from there if you stay there? So, My goal has changed from opening one practice to how many more lives can I change? Not only patients, but my team.How can I continue allowing them to grow as we grow because they have been with me for so long. Right? And you just wanna see people succeed. So it's fun. I love it. Michael: Nice. That's a a lot. Uh, you going? That was a little, it's fantastic. It's fantastic. Real quick, where in Houston were. Mary: I was, I lived in Pasadena, but the Hooters that I worked at was off the, off of Kirby.Michael: Okay. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Pasadena over there is different than Pasadena in here, right? Yes. It's very different. Yeah. That's nice. Okay, so then it's interesting you said no twice, right? You're like not a dental school and then NAD to pediatrics, but you went that way, right? Why? Why do you think that? Mary: I think part of it was one, it would make my parents proud that even though I wasn't a doctor, I was some sort of professional.so that was one. And then two, I think that I wanted to push myself into a better opportunity, right? Like I, I actually used to do nails. My parents owned several nail shops growing up, and one thing my mom always told me was, no matter what the skill. You can always learn more, and that'll just make you a better person, you know?Mm-hmm. So like I still have my manicuring license, even though I don't use it, I still renew it every year. Yeah. And it's like, it's fun, right? It's like you, it's a skill that you've acquired, that you've learned, and you're licensed to do it, and it's only good for you to learn to do a lot of different things.So, Dentistry. I don't practice behind the chair as much. Maybe once or twice a month when I'm filling in for my doctors who are on vacation. But, um, but I did it for 12 years, you know, and I really loved it. I feel like I became very good at not only clinical dentistry, but catering to patients needs. And now I have my second calling, which is developing people.Mm-hmm. And continuing to build my company. Uh, you know, affect as many lives as I can in a positive way. Yeah. Michael: No, that's, that's fantastic. Now, I know you kind of said like, now you accept anybody, right? Like, or not now, but like you've always accepted any kind of patient. Does that mean like Medi-Cal, any type of insurance?That doesn't matter. Mary: Exactly. So we are in network with almost every payer. The only ones that we are out of network with are the HMOs that require certain criteria that we think are unreasonable. Like for example, there's certain HMOs that say you have to try at the general dentist three times with failed appointments before we will pay for you to see a specialist, which I think is wrong because the general.Knows if the patient is able to tolerate treatment at a general dentist or if they need specialty care, why make them go three times before you'll refer them? Because by the time they get to us after the third time, they're so scared, you know? So those are the only insurance plans that we don't take are the ones that I just ag I don't agree with.They're pro protocol or their, their philosophy. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then you also mentioned that the, then the first three years, Of your startup, you became busy. Mm-hmm. So break it down to us. What were you doing? What didn't work? What worked? Mary: So initially I thought I wanted to be this boutique fee for service practice.Mm-hmm. I think that's the, picture that people paint, right? Mm-hmm. And so whenever I was a resident, we saw every payer type, mainly Medicaid. As a resident, and then when I went into private practice, I thought that I wanted to be this boutique p p O practice, but then I realized I wasn't fulfilled, I didn't see as many cavities or much extensive treatment.It was a slower pace. Um, which is okay, but I like being busy. You know, I worked at a nail shop for 15 years, right? So, I mean, you're seeing, you have a lot more interaction with people and so it, it, it's just a different type of practice. It's not right or wrong, but I think it's just like different dental practices in general, right?Some people like to sit and talk with their patients for a really long time, and some people thrive in a fast-paced environment where I like saying hi to five different people and. With kids in particular, they're very impatient. And when the kids are impatient, the parents are more impatient. Mm-hmm. So I like the fast paced type of environment.when I first started practicing, I worked out in Riverside County where it was like a hundred percent Medicaid. And so when I left that practice to open my own, a lot of the patients would come and see me at Lollipop, where our practice was in placenta and, um, At that time I didn't take Denal because I was like, well, you know, I don't know if I wanna open that door, but I'll still see them for free.So the social worker would bring them and I would still see them. And, um, I just wouldn't bill or wouldn't charge or anything like that. So then the social worker was like, Dr. Fam, like, we can help you. Why don't you just sign up so then you'll get paid for seeing. These patients that, that are driving an hour to two hours to come see you.And I'm like, all right, we can do that. So I called Medi-Cal and they said, you can, you can choose to see whichever patients you want, whether it's just kids under five special needs kids or whoever you can, you don't have to take every single person, right? You can just selectively decide like which patients you wanna see.And then I was like, yeah, I just wanna only see my patients. I don't wanna take any new patients, just the patients that I've followed for many. And so, um, so then we. Got slammed with patients cuz I couldn't say no to anyone. Mm-hmm. I mean, I had this, this thing where I'm only gonna see my patients and then hey, but I have a friend and then I, I'm telling everyone to come here and we love it here.And I was like, yes, yes. We'll see them, don't worry. Like, we'll take care of everybody. We can save the world. And so, um, so that's kind of how we got busy was because we were like, you know what, we're not gonna say no to any children that need specialty care. And we know we're the best, We're not gonna close our doors to anyone at all.You know, if we can help them, we will. Mm-hmm. And that's how we got from like, kind of like a boutique P p O type practice to where we are today. Michael: Gotcha. You're right, a hundred percent. So many times we're like, I wanna be a boutique then I only wanna have like work one to two clinical days. Right. Maybe good, good days.And then from that point on, have an associate be fee for service. Where does that come from? Why did you have that? Mary: You know, I can't, I can't put my finger on like one particular thing, but I just think people always Put Medicaid in like a negative connotation. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, it's like low reimbursement people cancel, the socioeconomic status and it's gonna run the fee for service patients out.You know? And then, so actually what I said was, you know what, like we're gonna be the in and out of pediatric dentistry no matter what your socioeconomic status is, whether. Bill Gates, if you like Inn out, you'll be there. Or whether you're a homeless person, you can still eat Inn Out or someone will buy you Inn out, right?And so, but there's no selectivity of who goes there. It's more of like, okay, if you like a good fresh burger, like it's affordable to everyone. So mm-hmm. That's, that's where I felt like, I don't know. I think just my heart is with children and I feel like I didn't go into pediatric dentistry to just. A fee for service type population.I went into pediatric dentistry to, to help the kids with the best level of care that need it the most. And if we could find a way to make it into a profitable business, then why? Why won't, why wouldn't you do that, right? Mm-hmm. Michael: Mary, when did that change then, for you, when you were like, okay, I, I did my startup, I wanted to be boutique, and then you.All right, now we're gonna be in and out. Like it felt like there was some part in your, in this moment, maybe it was before, I don't know. You honed in, you hyper-focused on exactly what you wanted to be do and things like that. when did that happen? The Mary: moment that I can think of is when I had a family actually that had like two or three adopted children that were under Medicaid, and then they had a couple biological children that were like ppo.And so, um, parents told me that they would always have to take the Dental Cal or the Medi-Cal kids somewhere else because there wasn't like a quality dental office that took everybody that was a specialist. And so at that time I was like, well, I don't want you to have to split up or like, feel like you're not getting that quality care.And, and that's the comments that we get is like, Oh, I've, I've never seen a Medicaid office look like this or provide this level of care. So I think there's a stigma with like Medicaid offices. Mm-hmm. Is that they're a rundown, or the technology's not there, or you're not getting the quality of care that you would get.But I think that we've changed that. You know, we're like, you know, no matter who you are, you're still gonna get the same level of quality. No matter if you're a Dcal patient or you're a cash patient, you're gonna get the same level of quality. There's no difference in. Service or procedure or products or materials that you get recommended, um, because of your payer status.And so I think knowing that you can serve everyone, um, and like I said, that one family was that one moment where I was like, oh man, I didn't realize that, you know, you had to kind of split up your family just because there wasn't one place that you could go that you were comfortable with. Michael: Mm-hmm. That's true.And I'm sure it means a lot for the child too, you know what I mean? And when looking back, maybe not in that moment, but like looking back, they're gonna, you know what I mean? Think about it and say, oh, we always had to go to like another practice that like real, they heard us, they did all this. Right. And my brother and sister, they went to the nice one, right?And things like that. And I wanted to go, but looking back, they'll, they'll realize that. But So then when it came to the Medi-Cal, do you feel like sometimes people, or Dentca, do you think sometimes people. Like, you know what Mary? Like, I, I wanna accept it. I do accept it in Medicare, but I just, I either have to see a ton of patience in order to make something and pay my team, and then I don't even have time to get, you know what I mean?What's the latest technology? Let's do an admin day. Let's figure things out. Let's make our mission, you know what I mean? Or is it the. Kind of the other way where it's like, Hey look, I don't wanna do that because I'm not gonna have the time for and the money to do what I wanna do with my practice. Mary: Right.I think everyone's goals are different. Right. like we talked about before, some doctors just like to sit and chat with their patients and for quite some time. I'm the type that delegates very well. So what I mean by that is, is my assistants are trained to do a lot of the anticipatory guidance in nutritional counseling.The oral hygiene instructions. Um, they spend 95% of the time with the patient. And so I'm just going in to diagnose, verify, and make treatment recommendations. So I allow my team to. Really develop that bond with the patient and be the main educator because they can tell them exactly the same thing that I tell them and it doesn't make a difference if it comes from me or from the assistant.And I feel like doing it that way empowers them too. Um, because I've hired some assistants who have worked for 10, 15 years, but they've never passed an instrument to the. Because they said that the doctor likes everything on their tray. Kind of like in dental school, we are the only, like, we are our own assistant, so you're used to working a certain way.And so I've had assistants that only hold the suction for doctor, and they've done that for 10 years. But when it comes to pre-op, post-op instructions, You know, getting everything ready, you know, informing the patient of all of these things. They've never done that because the doctor does all of that.So, you know, I think for us, we, the quality of the care that you're providing, but also the patient experience is very important. And so do I feel like the patient experience with my dental assistant doing a lot of the talking, communicating education, Am I still able to provide that with the same level of care as if I were to do it myself?And I do. You know, and I think that we, we have, we call like a Lollipop Dental Training Academy, where we actually go through training for every single person. And like their first week they're, it's customer service training. So they're learning how to talk, what type of energy they're gonna bring, and then they're learning all the verbiage when they come. Michael: Break that down to me. How does the Lollipop Dental Academy work? So the first week is customer service, and then every day you like, welcome, come on to the team. And how does it. Mary: Yeah, so after they do onboarding, the first week is, like I said, customer service training. It could be anything from learning all the education.There's a lot of role playing, so I'll just use a baby exam as an example. Like if you have a child and you bring the baby in for the first visit, there's a series of questions and recommendations. That are asked such as, does your child have any habits? What type of water are you drinking? And then depending on what the parent says, we make a recommendation on that.So we do a lot of role playing. So that way every assistant is trained on not only the guidelines, but also what to recommend and even how to respond if a patient says I wouldn't say the wrong thing, but let's just say if it's a, it's a bad habit. how to say that in a way that's not judgmental, you know?So like, Kind of like when you go to the dentist, right? And they say, are you flossing? And they just say, yeah, but they're not really flossing like they're supposed to, but they know that if they say no, there's gonna be a lecture. Mm-hmm. So there's never a lecture, there's never any judgment zone. Um, the way that we teach our team is, you know, treat them as if they're your bestie, bringing you their baby and you just wanna help them, right?So. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, customer service training, week two, we go into, I think certifications, um, expectations on quality. Hmm. So a lot of, you know, not every dental assistant, um, Corona Polish is the same, you know, some of them don't do it as thoroughly. So we do have like clinical excellence, expectations and it's graded, so then they'll get graded on the quality of each thing.And then I think each week they just progress in clinical skill. And then there are expectations of customer service each week as well. Meaning, did you get a Yelp review? Like week two? You should have two. Week three, you should have three Week four, you should have four that week. So they have those expectations.Two. Michael: Wow. Has it ever happened where it's like, Hey, it's week four. I I, I didn't get a Yelp four. You know what I mean? Like, are they just asking or how are they getting these? Mary: Yeah, they're just asking, you know, like there's ways that we ask and um, And their lead or their trainer will help them, because sometimes people are shy.But, but then you have to get them into that habit of, okay, this is the expectation that you have is you have to get four, but if you got one week one, then you know how to do it. Now you just gotta keep doing it. Um, so yeah, they ask. Michael: Gotcha. Uh, you mentioned that you have a way to ask how. Mary: I don't wanna tell you all my secrets, but, Michael: but we get it.You got, you got you, got you. Okay. No worries. Okay. That's interesting though. So then how long is that? When is the training process done? Mary: Normally it's week seven or week eight. All of the basics have been taught. then it's just repetition, right? Like if you're practicing, uh, space maintainers, then you.Have a certain level, um, before you get that signed off. And then once you, once clinically, you, the trainer feels like you are competent. It's like a competency in dental school. Like you keep doing it until you pass. Mm-hmm. And then once they. Are competent and our leadership team feels like they're ready for the next step.And then they're, you know, we kind of see where each team member is and what, how they think they can contribute past just clinical skill. And everyone's different. You know, some people wanna train, some people wanna lead the team. Some people like KPIs and metrics. You know, um, everyone's a little bit different.Michael: Nice. So then has anybody. Not like, maybe like week four you're just like, all right. You know, taking, taking you out, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Oh Mary: yeah. I mean, there's a certain level of expectation. You know, some people interview very well, but then are really shy mm-hmm. On the floor. Um, and if they don't kind of break out of their shell and meet the expectation, then we do have those conversations.Mm. Like maybe you're not meant to work with kids, you know, even though you think you are because of x, Y. Mm-hmm. Michael: Does that normally go good, those conversations? Mary: Um, I always say we never let someone go as a surprise, you know, so we do, um, you know, verbal conversations, um, written warnings, uh, everything. So we, we set expectations, um, to make sure that they understand what the benchmarks are and, you know, and I.If they meet our core values. And, and I think that's the main thing. If you meet our core values, but it takes you a little bit longer to get where we want you to be, but we can see that there's progression, then that's more important. And, and maybe not, this role's not for you. Maybe we need to make a lateral move and put you in another department because you're struggling with this.Mm-hmm. You know? So, um, so I think. You know, we, we follow traction with like our, our, um, meeting cadence and systems and we do what they call the people analyzer, where if we don't have clarity on whether or not we should keep someone, we just put it across our core values and see if, okay, are you kind, are you dedicated?Do you have a growth mindset? Do you show leadership quality? Um, are you, you know, team player? And then if they do seem like they have all of our core values, then we say, okay, maybe they're just struggling with this. Maybe they'll do better in billing, or maybe they'll do better in this role, um, because we do feel like they fit our culture, but they're just a slower learner.Or maybe they're not that detailed in this, but they're super customer service oriented. So maybe we can put them in a people operations role or so. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. That's interesting. And so when that happens, let's just say for example, you're, they don't meet one or two core values, but you're kind of dry on that role.You know what I mean? Like where you're, or has that ever happen? I know that's happening a lot to a lot of us out here right now where we're struggling looking for team members. Right. Um, but it comes to you where you're like, okay, we need this. They're not the best fit, but we can do for now, does, do you do that or.Mary: So if someone's a straight no. So we do it like a plus, plus minus, and then a minus. Mm-hmm. So if they're like, let's just, I'll just use proactive, right? So if they're like kind of proactive sometimes, but then sometimes they're not, they'll get a plus minus, and that means we can work on it. But if they're our, one of our core values is dedication, and they're like, no, because they're late every single day and they call out.Then we say, okay, this needs to change right away. And if they're late for the next, 30 to 90 days I think is what they do if they're late one time in the next 90 days. And that could be grounds for immediate termination. So we, we really do stick to the core values when it comes to. If you're not dedicated, you're not dedicated because you call out or you come in late every day.That's disrespectful to everybody that comes on time, and it's showing that we as a company tolerate that and it goes against who we are. So we have let very good skilled people go. Due to not fitting our core values. And it, and it always ends up being that the team appreciates that. Mm-hmm. They're like, oh, they were late every day.Like, why should I come on time every day if they're allowing that? So we do, um, we do do the people analyzer and like I said, it does give you clarity on whether or not someone fits who we. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. That's interesting. Now, you also mentioned that once you open the first practice second, right, you systematized.Mm-hmm. I know a lot of the times we think when we open a practice, number one, we're like, got it. I know the blueprint. I can do the same thing for the second one. Is that true? Mary: No. You always have to pivot and change. Because they're, you know, like, I'll use one perfect example. When you have one location, everyone, you can probably verify all your own insurance, right?You don't really need help, you're not that busy. Mm-hmm. Or you've come up with the way that works. But then as you well in that one location, if as you grow, it's gonna put a lot of stress on your team. what we do is we say, okay guys, what is it we could automate and what is it that that's causing you a lot of stress right now that we can help?And from there we come up with a solution to help with that. But I think as you're growing more locations, um, it's not gonna be the same, you know, like you have more team members, you need more managers, um, you centralize a lot of your services. You know, because you don't need a biller for each office.Now you can have a bill. For four offices, you know, for me it's kind of fun building out different parts of our organization. Um, but you know, there's so many things that change that I couldn't even put my finger on one thing. But I think the main thing is, people, you know, like the larger that your organization.You know, you're and I, and this example I love to use is like, when it's just you and five people, your influence is really strong. You see them every day. You work with them every day. It's like a wifi signal, right? Like you're there and they like, you're really in tune. But as you grow, your wifi signal gets weaker and weaker.So then you need people. In place that's gonna keep that signal strong. And so they say one person can effectively manage up to five to seven people. And I do believe that like once you get to like 10, 12, 13 people, then you're not as effective in leading those people. But, but yeah, there's, there's so many things that change.It's hard to just say one thing, but I think just keeping up with what your needs are and knowing that you need leadership in place to make sure that. Each of the team members still feel loved and cared for and, and engaged. And it doesn't necessarily have to be you, the doctor, it could just be whoever it is that their manager mm-hmm.Um, is. Michael: Yeah, I like that. It's, it's true. The wifi, you know what I mean? Didn't they say it's like, um, you can test it out with like a pizza party or something like that, like get a pizza and then however much, you know what I mean? If you're like, I need to order two pizzas, and that means you have too many people on your team or so.Yeah. In the room. Yeah, something like that. But, uh, that's awesome. I really appreciate that, um, analogy and at the same time, I know it's kind of, um, difficult for a lot of people to try to systematize right. When it comes to this. So how did you come up with it? Did you seek help? I know you said you read traction, things like that, but like how did you nail.Mary: So I think the one thing that really helped me the most was joining a mastermind of people who were very like-minded or better than me, right? Or like better meaning, um, have grown their organization a lot larger. And we're still sane. Mm-hmm. They didn't feel like, crazy yet. So, um, so yeah, surrounding yourself with the people that have that same mindset and that are, that have achieved more than you is so inspiring.You know, you know how they say you never wanna be the smartest person in the, cuz then you're in the wrong room. Right. So I love to surround myself with really growth, like growth mindset. Uh, people who really challenge me, um, to be better. And so, and, and I joined, um, The D E o I think maybe like few years ago.It's a mastermind group for dental organizations that are starting off. Um, and then I've joined other groups as well. Uh, and I think everyone's tea is different, right? They just mm-hmm. Some people, um, like different groups. But I would say anything that challenges you, that makes you grow is something that, that is priceless, Michael: Yeah, I like that. Okay. And then right now with your practices e even if you could recall with like year one or your first practice, what were you doing for marketing and advertising and what'd you stick with throughout this whole time? Um, so Mary: as far as marketing, we, um, we did a lot of just grassroots, you know, so we would go out in the community, set up tables, um, we would visit pediatricians.I mean, we would. To events where our patient avatar would be. Mm-hmm. Which is anywhere with children. Right. Or moms. And, and we still do that. I mean, we do a lot of preschool presentations. We do a lot of health fairs where moms are. and then, you know, as far as like, spend on online marketing, we don't really do any of that.Most of it is just, I think, um, You know, asking for reviews and more grassroots. And we do a lot of, um, like internal promotions for our current patients. Um, but you know, to be honest, we don't spend a lot on actual, like marketing. Mm-hmm. Michael: No, I think that's, that's brilliant. Like the ground marketing, the grassroots marketing.when you went to these events, Well, two questions. How did you get inside of like the, the preschools and things like that? Like what would you say? But the second thing is like, did you have an incentive that you would offer them for them to sign up or, Mary: or. No, we just called and asked. I mean, I think there's a power in asking, you know, like I said, asking for reviews, asking for like, Hey, can we come to your school and do a preschool presentation?We'd give them little goodies like, like, you know, postcards and toothbrush and some branded stuff. Um, but you know, most of it was just being bold. Putting yourself out there. You know, like when we go to now, we have tools, two full-time marketing people, which we didn't have before. Marketing department when I first opened was me, but which I still go sometimes, but they have more, they, they have a lot more energy than I do now.Mm-hmm. But, um, but yeah, so as we've grown, you know, we have one, um, social media person who goes, gets content and posts everything, and, and then we have one person who does just pr. Um, community events and like website. So, as we've grown, we just wanted someone just strictly focused on social media, engaging with the families, doing contests, um, and yeah, it's been good.Michael: It's been good. Cool, cool. So then you don't, like when it comes to the health fairs, right, you don't really give out any, I guess, incentives or anything like that for people to. Mary: Oh yeah. So we do put them in a drawing. I think. Like if you book an appointment on the spot at the event, um, I think your name goes into a drawing for like a basket full of like dental stuff.I think like a toothbrush and all of that. But um, and I think we have like one of those wheels mm-hmm. That you spin that gives away. So we do like little fun things like that, but, um, but we don't have, I don't think like a coupon or, or anything. Yeah. It's just more, um, our biggest goal is to book the appointment.Mm-hmm. So then when we have our marketing team out there, you know, their key performance indicator is how many appointments did you book? Mm-hmm. You know, and that's how we know Michael: how they do. And they normally show up or is it like a no show or like what's the percentage? Um, Mary: I think they come, I mean, I don't know exactly the metrics, but I mean, I don't think that there has been an issue with the no-shows.I mean, our cancellation rate is pretty low cuz we do like a pretty good job of making sure we have a confirmed schedule. Of course people get sick, you know, and kids get sick in, in that just happens. But, um, but this is part of like your systems, right? And processes, like how firm is your confirmation? schedule D being done, right.And then if a few days before you have all these holes in the schedule, how are you gonna fill it, you know? Mm-hmm. So we have people in place that really make sure that we have, a productive schedule, like different avenues. Gotcha. Okay. Michael: Interesting. So then if you could, from the moment, let's talk about from the moment you decided to open your startup Right.Till today. Right. What's been some of your biggest struggles or pitfalls?Mary: I wouldn't really call them struggles cause I look at every, like, I feel like I am super growth mindset where I really don't stay down wi on something that bothers me because, I think being an entrepreneur, you know, things are gonna happen. Maybe the first time, like, so I'll use this as an example.The first time I had to let someone go, I couldn't sleep the night before at all. Mm-hmm. Like I was nervous, I was like crying. I wrote this long letter about how much I love this person and how I'm just so heartbroken. And then I remember when I let her go, I said, oh, you know, I'm so sorry. I have to let you go.And she was just like, okay. And she walked out the door. And I was, I was heartbroken that she wasn't as emotional as I was. I spent way too much time over this breakup. Then she did. Right. So going back to that and thinking of like where I am today, I've realized that in order to be successful, you have to just.That things are not always gonna go as planned, and that it's gonna be like a rollercoaster. No matter you're in business for five years or 25 years, there's always gonna be things that happen that are not going to be the way that you anticipated, but it's, that shouldn't predict. where you go, right?Like, that should just be a part of the journey. Say, okay, this is, there's gonna be something that happens. Like everything is smooth sailing right now, but I know in the next three months it could be completely different. How am I as a leader of my organization gonna respond to any of these, obstacles that come along the way?And so I never dwell on anything, like if somebody leaves or if something happens, I always say, well, nobody died. Right. Knock on wood. Yeah. Okay. How are we gonna fix this moving forward so that we don't make the same mistake again? What, like how do we drop the ball on this patient that they're not happy with us?How do we put that into our system so that way we make sure that we. got that eye or crossed that T and so we problem solve quickly and then move on. You know, we don't really dwell on anything becau um, anything that happened in the past, because the more time you spend doing that, the more you kind of just bring yourself down and you're not able to focus on your future.And then there's so many people that rely on you to be in that right mindset, you know, like, yeah. Michael: I like that. Okay. Problem solve quickly, right? Yes. And that's, I think, uh, I know for me sometimes, um, same thing like where you're like, oh my God, you dwell and dwell and then you're, you know what I mean? But you grew out of it, you know, so that's great.Oh, yeah. Fast. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. When it comes to you feeling personally burnt out How do you cope with that Mary: de. there's this one exercise that I do at least quarterly. I try to do it monthly, but it's really simple and it helps keep me in a right mindset. But basically I write down everything I do from morning until night, like generally speaking.So like pack my kids lunch, check my email, check my slack. Uh, check in with people and my leadership team. And then I, I go through this whole list and I'm like, what is it that I don't like to do on this list? Like, what is it that I could delegate? So then, you know, for example, I wrote, right now what's on my list is interviewing doctors because I love, I loved doing it, but now I get so many resumes, it's like very time consuming.But I know that, I mean, it's not something that I don't like to do, don't get me wrong, but It's not my favorite thing. It's kind of like a, you know. Yeah. Okay. And so then I put on here the name of the person who I'm gonna delegate that to, and then I start making sure that I have another doctor on my team sit with me on the interview, start training for that position, so then I could take that off my plate.So, I do get asked that a a lot like, oh, Mary, how do you do all of this? You know, like, you're a mom, you open practices, you do a mastermind group. So as a hobby, I do a mastermind group too at night, a couple a week, just to help other women who are having a hard time with, um, practice ownership.Right. But then I, it's because I delegate a lot, you know? Mm-hmm. Like I have a few personal assistants. I have a lot of leadership team that helps run the operations of the business to where I really don't have to be here. you know, I could go for a few weeks and everything be fine, and it'll probably be even better than what I'm here because I have a lot to say and I take a lot of their time.But when I'm here is when the business is, you know, you know that people are happy and they're doing what, doing their job, what they're supposed to do, and your business is doing well. So it allows me to focus on the things that I really like to do because if you don't like doing something, you, you're taking away from things.Things that you could be doing that ultimately are probably, more beneficial to not only like your company, but to your family, right? Because you're doing things that really, that you really enjoy. And so that's how I do it. I delegate very well and I have a weekly focus and the focus is always who I need to hire that week to help me with something that I need to delegate off my.Michael: So are you always hiring? Mary: Um, right now it's a nanny Uhhuh. No. Cause it could change, right? Not the nanny and I, I actually just filled the other position. Another assistant, like personal assistant? Yeah. Michael: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So then it's interesting you say that you have a mastermind, right? You have an organization, multiple practices, right?Teams, all that stuff you have to deal with. what was the other thing you said? So Mary: I, oh, I'm a mom. You know, Michael: you're a mom. I'm my husband. Ok. You, you, your husband's another, he's listening to this. He is like, yeah, yeah. No, but, uh, so you do it a lot. I mean, do you ever, I guess, and I know you do, I mean a lot of us do, but have that like dad guilt or mom guilt kind of thing, and then, or do you not?Mary: I think I used to. But I think that every per parent, right, whether they're mom or dad, has a different level of time and attention with their children that works for them. You know? So I have friends that spend, that are stay-at-home moms, and they spend their entire day with their children. And they love it.And then I have some that spend all the days with their kids and they're screaming at them all day and they're like, it's so stressful. I don't know why I'm doing this. I need to go back to work. And so for me, my kids come home from after school care or sports or whatever it is, at 5:00 PM and so 5 36 sometimes, and I only have like two or three hours with them a day.But during that two or three hours, it's like quality time. Hmm. You know, so, My take on that is, is the time that you spend with your kids, that's quality time, that's good for them and good for you. means that you have that nice balance, you know? But if you say, oh, well this person is spending like from 3:00 PM to 8:00 PM and you know, on social media, they're going to all the games and they're, Doing all this stuff, you compare yourself to other people, then you're never gonna feel like you're enough.I mean, there's always gonna be someone who's, more, has more practices, who's, more attractive or who is better than you, right? Or like that you feel like, um, you wanna be like, but if you compare yourself to other people, you're always gonna feel like you are not doing enough. So I just try to say, Hey, you know, Everybody has their level of work that works for them.And for the normal person, probably how much I work is gonna be way too much, you know? But for me, I love it and I think it keeps, like, I've always worked like I do since I was a little girl. And I, and I love what I do, so I don't feel like it's work. I really enjoy it. But when it comes to being a mom, if I were to spend morning to night with my kids, I really think that I would go crazy.You know I do. Yeah. Yeah. Like when my husband's not home and I'm with them for the weekend by myself, I'm like, this is not fair. You're working and I'm at home with Michael: these, these kids. No, I get you. Mary: Yeah. So I think it's just different. You can't compare. Michael: No. Yeah. Okay. I, I love that. I love that. I feel like sometimes we get boggled down into, like what you said, that comparison mode where you're looking on social media, you start comparing and you're like, huh, I should, but then in reality, you're like, if I do it more than three hours, It's not gonna be quality time with 'em, you know?It's just gonna be, they're gonna be like, what Mary: are you doing? Get down. Michael: You're just watching them watch YouTube the whole time, and you're like, all right, yeah, just watch YouTube right now, you know, kind of thing. Awesome, Mary, I appreciate that. If anybody had any questions or concerns or anything like that, where can they reach out to you?Mary: Um, you can find me instagram@drmaryfam.com or dr mary fam.com, Dr. Mary fam. That's, that's where I met you, Michael, or my email, dr mary lollipop dental.com. Happy to help Michael: awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to Mary and Mary.Thank you for being with us. It was a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon. Of course. Mary: All right, thank you.‍‍‍

Dr. Chrystle Cu is giving all our listeners 50 FREE Cocofloss Minis! Head on over to our link to claim your 50 free Cocofloss Minis on your first order! https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/50free-cocoflossminis/‍‍Guest: Chrystle CuBusiness Name: CocoflossCheck out Chrystle's Media:‍‍Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getcocofloss/Website: https://cocofloss.com/Website for Dentists: https://cocoflosspro.com/Email: help@cocofloss.com‍Other Mentions and Links:‍Young Dental GroupInvisalignMatch.comADAYelpYellow PagesCVSiTeroThe Almanack of Naval Ravikant‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Look past just the dentistry you're providing and think about the real values of the patients. Are they searching for more confidence, convenience, or preventing future problems?Having a fancy office will only go so far. Developing patient relationships is the real key!Adding vibrant colors and a colorful feel to your practice is a great way to stand out from the cold sterile environment.As a business owner, it is imperative to delegate tasks. Don't be afraid to give responsibility to team members in your absence.Make sure to find your true long term goals and work towards them on a day to day basis. It's easy to get off track and lose sight of these!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Crystal, how's it going? Great, how are you? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you are today? Chrystle: Sure. So I am, well first I'm a dentist.Mm-hmm. And I have been a dentist for 15 years and I kind of fell into this industry. Most likely because my mom is a dentist, she's a general dentist as well. Mm-hmm. And I've, I mean, I'm not sure which part of today or or the future you wanna talk about, but. I, uh, had a dental practice in San Mateo.I kind of built a scratch practice out of my mom's practice, so she kind of helped incubate me out of her one free chair that she had, and I built a practice out of that. And through working as a dentist and doing a lot of my own hygiene for the first few years in practice, I grew super frustrated with.The state of oral hygiene as it was, and the lack of compliance or motivation um, for my patients. And so then I created coco floss with my sister in 2015. And it's since been very well received among dental professionals and in the dental community and consumers alike. So my goal as a dentist and as an entrepreneur is to help people achieve teeth for life, via small habits um, that they can incorporate easily.And something, something small, takes a couple minutes out of your day, and it's something delightful. It'll help make you healthier and help you achieve teeth for Michael: life. Gosh. So why um, well, we're gonna get into the why the cocoa. Bit right now or like part of it, but rewind a little bit. You were, you just decided to do dentistry because more like you saw your mom and you're like, I like that life, or, or why?Chrystle: You know, It was actually pretty roundabout. That's why I'm always a little hesitant when I share that, you know, it's not, so, it wasn't so simple. Like if A then B it wasn't that. Mm-hmm. My mom's a dentist, so I wanna be a dentist. It wasn't at all like that growing up. I I did spend a lot of time in her practice.You know, she would pick me up from school and sit me in her office and I would do my homework there. I would fill in for the front desk whenever the front desk was out sick, or if she had jury duty or was on vacation. I was the front desk and I would, Schedule appointments with pencil and paper and would do the patient ledgers and um, the claims.But those were fun times as a, as a, young adult. And I, uh, also growing up I was a competitive pianist, so my mom being a dentist, many of her friends were dentists and they would say, you know, crystal, you know, with your fast fingers, you should consider dentistry because, those hand skills might come in handy for you in the future.And so all these like little seeds were planted for me very early on in. And it really wasn't until college I was a chemistry major. I knew I had an inclination towards the health sciences because I have a lot of healthcare professionals in my family. And then I, just tried to explore various things.I really tried hard not to, funnel straight into dentistry and I explored various things, but I, I met a group of other women who were determined they wanted to be dentists and they were part of a very small pre-dental society at our college, Wellesley. And together we volunteered at elementary schools in the local um, in suburban Boston.And we taught young children how to brush their teeth and how to care for their teeth. And I had so much fun in this experience that, that that volunteer, those volunteering days alone were what really made me decide that, okay, I wanna be a dentist. So it was the education part of it that really um, got me the education and prevention.So that, yeah, so it was a little roundabout, but definitely helped that, you know, I was exposed to dentistry very early on throughout my childhood. Michael: Yeah. But it didn't become like what you wanted to do until you, until you volunteered. Chrystle: Exactly. Yeah. So it was the volunteering, the community stuff that really got me why.I care a lot about health personally. I just, just love, how, you know, just a little bit of education and education can be free and how that can really help impact a person's life um, you know, in a small way. But that can add up into, let's say, extra years of your life, for example.And so I just, I just had so much fun, you know, that instant reward feeling of being able to teach children how to take care of their teeth and understand about oral health. It felt so good to do that and I, I, I continue to live off of that. I thrive on that feeling so. I continued on in dental school.I was president of our community service organization, and I coordinated everybody's community service while I was there. And so through that I also got to pick and choose the, the coolest community service events. And so, you know, I, I thrived off of that and just really love the outreach work.I love being able to just get in, help people immediately and just, being able to like, fix someone up in like 20 minutes and then them like, give you a big hug and like tears in their eyes and telling you that you've changed their life, that's the kind of stuff that really gets me going.So, and as a dentist, I um, do some, like outreach work. I like to travel to the Philippines and I work out of a pediatric clinic in a very rural town um, in behold in the Philippines. So all of this just, it just keeps fueling my fire and makes me continue to be really passionate about oral health and about prevention.Nice. Michael: So it's more like the. The feeling of the empathy with the people. Right. Kind of like, oh, like, you know, you feel like you can do something right, and then you're doing it basically. Yeah, Chrystle: yeah, definitely. And I would say that, you know, as a dentist, my favorite among, among the things I love about dentistry, one of my favorite parts about it is just building these relationships with people and trying to understand them and, understand what, what are their, what drives 'em, what motivates them.And then I try to help them align. Their goals with better oral health. And it sounds kinda like a little abstract, but I usually can make it, uh, can connect the dots for them because they think they have very like, simple goals with regards to oral health. But when I ask a patient, well, you know, cuz they might say like, oh I just want white teeth or mm-hmm.I don't wanna have to spend so much on my fillings every year cuz that's what I have to do every year. And then I'll kind of, you. I'll make them take a step back and we'll ask them like, how about teeth for Life? Would that be a good goal for you? If they're always like a little surprised, they're like, whoa, teeth for life.I never thought about that. Cause like maybe you should, you could have a little control over it with the right with the right habit building and the right intentions early on. We, we, there are things we can't control in life and there are things that we can control and so why not, implement some small changes to your day-to-day that would help you achieve something that shouldn't be so abstract teeth for life. Mm-hmm. Michael: And so these are like, when you're talking to a patient about that, are those like your new patient exams? Yeah. Okay. How long are those normally Chrystle: for you? Um, Usually at least an hour, but of course in the beginning my assistants are doing like with a requisite ECRI rays and we usually do an IRO scan and photography.Mm-hmm. But time with me is usually at least 30 minutes and sometimes it can go longer. but yes, it usually happens, like the, the most impactful conversations tend to happen in the first patient exam because that's the opportunity that you get to really like, dig in and ask about all their prior dental experiences and what brought them to your chair, your practice to begin with.So that also is my favorite dental appointment, the first new patient exam. Michael: Yeah, I like that. So in your practice, or I'm, I'm assuming you still have that Salmon Mateo practice, right? Or no? Chrystle: Uh, so yes, very recently in July I sold my practice to, uh, a wonderful doctor who I I admire and I'm excited about seeing her grow and take the practice to the next level.Wow. Okay. I'm Michael: gonna ask you about that right now, but real quick, when it comes to the new patient exam, when you were doing it, a lot of the times I think we think like, the more we can run through, the more efficiency, the more numbers right, better collections and production, things like, In your mind, it doesn't really sound like you're worried about that.You're kind of more worried about what? Chrystle: I'm building a connection with the patient and I'm really like establishing, building rapport and I'm trying to understand them. So I am doing my like, clinical assessment and diagnosis in my head. They don't really need to hear that. They don't care. But I'm trying to understand what makes them tick, maybe my patient is. 29 years old and he's striking out on match.com that probably doesn't even exist anymore. I'm dating myself, Ben, like, and he's just, how can he build some confidence in his, in his personal, in, in his whole being, right? And mm-hmm. You know, obviously as dentists we can help with that.So again, just trying to understand what makes people tick, right? What is it that's driving this person? Is it because they're trying to. And, and it, it doesn't necessarily be related to oral health. Like are they trying to achieve something in terms of like their personal fitness goals? are they trying to get a promotion at work?Whatever it is. Like, I wanna know what is the, what does this person care about most and how can I align my recommendations with what Michael: they want? Yeah. So then what questions do you ask for that? Like, it's a complete new person, you're like, Hey, what's up? Or how do you go? Doing that. Is it in the form beforehand and you just look at it or?Chrystle: So I have, I mean, we've been a little lazy and we never made our own health history form. We just used the one from the ada. Mm-hmm. I like to read between the lines there. Um, and you know, the ADA form, it just has like really basic info, but it includes occupation, which is really telling also like who they're um, in case of emergency person would be, or like their spouse or partner.And then of course there's the dental history and then the medical history. And then I just, ask questions, beyond what was on the health history form, and I ask them to tell me more, and then I'm not asking yes or no questions. I'm actually saying like, well, tell me about this.I see here that you've circled that you have tooth sensitivity. Tell me about that. Mm-hmm. So it's not so much like, do you have tooth sensitivity? Yes or no. It's not a binary response. It's tell me about your tooth sensitivity. And then they're gonna tell you a story about like, well, every time I I make ice cream, they're gonna say like, I love to make ice cream.And every time I try my ice cream, it's sensitive or whatever, where I remember I have a patient who. He does struggle with erosion, for example. But he really, really loves making beer, and that's just something that's so important to him. So for him, the decisions and the decisions we make are around like, well, how can we accommodate your passion for beer?I'm not gonna tell you to stop drinking beer because that's part of something that, that's something you really care about, but how can we. Build a plan for you that would help you achieve teeth for life while keeping in, your love for making beer. Michael: Yeah. No, no, no. I a hundred percent. I like that.How you try to connect it, you know? mm-hmm. Especially like occupational, like, oh, mm-hmm. Why are you doing that? And then they're like, oh, I would love to be doing this instead, and be like, also, you love doing that. Right? And you get right. You dig deeper. Yeah. No, no, no. It's good. It's the conversation and the report that you're building, right?Like the relationship. I think that's what we kind of have to look into it. But let's fast forward a little bit. You had a practice. Yes. So talk to me about that. Chrystle: Sure. So first, my mom had a practice that she built from scratch. She had a two operatory practice an immigrant to the United States. So she didn't really have like a network.Um, English wasn't even her first language, but she built a small practice and in for the entirety of her career, she used one. Out the tube. So that's like, nobody does that anymore. First of all, nobody builds two operatory practices unless maybe like very, very, yeah. Specialized. But two operatory general practice and for the entirety of your career.The second chair was basically just, it was used as like a place to hang, a let apron or a place to put the patient's purse. We didn't use that chair at. I wanna say like after maybe 15 or so years, my mom switched the chairs so that at least she got a new chair on her side and the other chair, the older chair.And then when I graduated from dental school in 2008, she didn't have any patience for me. Again, a one chair practice, it's not like a growing thing. And she, she didn't have any patients to give me. So I went and associated with another doctor. In San Francisco and I worked with him, I wanna say like three to four days a week to.And it really was unglamorous. It wasn't, it wasn't anything that, you know, you would dream of. Mm-hmm. It's just, it was a very simple practice. But that doctor, he built an, amazing loyal patient base and had to give him credit. Like he built, these relationships and these patients were so, you know, they, they would never switch dentists even though, the patients were seeing me all the time.Instead of him. They were very loyal to him. And so, I, I learned from there that it's not about having a fancy office at all, it's about the relationship that you build with the patient and of course, doing good dentistry. So a couple years after working with him and not feeling like I was the best fit there, because quite frankly, I wasn't him.He's like this tall guy and he has like a presence and I'm like this little, little Asian 23 year. How old was I then? I was probably 26. And patients would look at me and think I was the assistant. So eventually I started to feel like, all right, I'm getting discouraged here.Time to go build my own patient base. So I, I thankfully had my mom's empty, dusty chair to work out of really old equipment. It was all built in 1986, but I made it into my own, my own practice and I. Quickly, rose to the top of, you know, Yelp search results for having really strong Yelp.And again, a surprise because I was a pretty new graduate and it, again, it had nothing to do with like my facilities. Mm-hmm. By no means state of New York, but it was, I, I, I do believe that it was my you know, how much time I spent with my patients and I had time because, I didn't have any patients to start with, so why not?Spend extra time with the patient. And so I quickly, yeah, just built a practice out of that, just outta one chair. And then soon after that, I, encouraged my mom to take some days off so I could use her chair as well. And in 2018 I had to, well we outgrew our practice a long time prior to this, but in 2018, I, I bought another practice for their space cuz they had four operatories that I could change into five.And so I built a five operatory practice and we, I moved everyone over there, my mom, myself, and our whole, whole team. And in 2022, I sold my practice to my associate. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So I. It came up right, like pretty quick, really Chrystle: quick. And I, I, I think we would've, we should have moved out of our two operatory space a long time ago.It's just in our town, San Mateo, there are a lot of limitations around, like zoning restrictions, about how you can build a dental practice. For example, downtown San Mateo, you're not allowed to be on the ground level. They want you. Walk down the street and see like coffee shops and restaurants and like retail spaces, but no medical practices or dental practices that allowed you to be upstairs.And if you build a new place upstairs, need to have an 88 compliant elevator. These buildings are like a hundred years old. Nobody has room for an 88 compliant elevator. And so it was just hard. Like I looked for a new practice space for years and I kept striking out. and that, and actually this, this problem I had with like physical space and lack of chair time.I would say was a really key ingredient in my ability to create coco floss because as a dentist, I really should have just been busy doing dentistry. Mm-hmm. And at my growing practice, I should have been doing, I should have been so busy doing the dentistry, but because I didn't have enough chair time I made myself busy making floss.Michael: Wow. Okay. So then, Were people calling and like, Hey Dr. Ku, I wanna, I wanna schedule an appointment. You're like, six months from now, or something like Chrystle: that, or, exactly. It was absurd. Mm-hmm. And I had patients like, tell me, I'll never forget I had this one patient um, for his first new patient exam. He told me he had been waiting for months and after his comprehensive exam, at which time, I don't typically do the first prophylaxis or periodontal maintenance.I just, I do the comprehensive exam and I schedule them for whatever follow-up care they need. Mm-hmm. Basically demanded that I do his cleaning and I was, I was so upset. I was like, but then I also, I mean, I can't help but feel badly. He did wait months to have his appointment with me. And I, I don't know, I I, I dismissed him shortly after that.I was like, this is obviously not a good fit. I don't feel comfortable. Like the way he, yeah, he basically yelled at me saying I had to do his cleaning, and I, I was really upset about it. I admittedly, I, I believe I was crying as I did his cleaning. Michael: And so that wasn't, did he see you? Did he see you? Cry when you were, or No, I was in Chrystle: my 12 o'clock position, so I, I doubt it, but I was really upset about it.Yeah. And so I, I just missed him. But, it's unfortunate that a new patient like that I, I brought him to that point, right. That I've made him wait so long that he was that upset. A new patient exam. Like I know that some practices will preschedule block out time for new patients just to make sure there's always time for a new patient.And I think that's a wise. Thing to do if you get really busy. But for me, it wasn't possible. and I also got to the point where for treatment for some people, you know, if they needed a lot of treatment, I would say, uh, can we do this treatment at your six month week care? Which is a long time to wait for treatment.When I had five operatories, if somebody needed treatment, it's like, let's go do it in the other room right now. Mm-hmm. You know, I would make it happen right now. Whereas, for these, for my, in my two operatory. Somebody needed something, we would have to wait a long time for it. So it just became ridiculous.And um, but that also made me, kind of obsess over prevention because if I was gonna tell a patient, mm, we're gonna have to do your crown in six months, so what I want you to do in between, in the meantime, and I really need you to floss every day, and this is how I want you to do it. And this is why it's important.Yeah. And so that's, that's kind of how I became self obsessed with. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. That's it. So then remind a little bit, you said you had a strong Yelp review, right? That helped you gain the traction. How'd you, if you don't mind me asking, like how'd you build that up? Did you just ask people or. Chrystle: Yeah, actually I think I did ask people in the beginning and it was a little awkward.Of course it's a little awkward to ask that question, but I started with just, you know, my patients when I first started, again, it started from no patients. So I started with just my friends, and my family, so like my cousin or whatever, and. And then I would have them write a Yelp review for me. And I didn't tell them what to write.I wouldn't say like, oh, make sure you gimme five stars or anything like that. It's like, please, can you gimme an honest review on Yelp? Mm-hmm. and then I think at the time it just, there weren't as many like, places to look for reviews at the time. This was like in 2010 or so. So, Yeah, like the, the Yelp reviews just kept piling on and, uh, the phone would bring off the hook.So I was scheduling anywhere from 30 to 50 new patients per month in my one year Michael: off from Yelp, Chrystle: basically. Yeah. Because otherwise I, I mean, the other, only other place to find me would be like, I don't know, maybe in the Yellow Pages, but who, who, who uses that anymore. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's interesting.Let me ask you, how did it feel for you to be like, We're moving, we're moving to a bigger place like kind of thing. Chrystle: it was hard. Um, But it actually like, it, it kind of happened. So how I mentioned that it was really hard to find his place. For years, I looked for a new place, but it wasn't until our landlord actually told us that we had to move and we didn't have a choice in the matter.They. Evicted the entire building because they wanted to, redo the whole building and rent it out to a single tenant and it wasn't gonna meet any of us existing tenants. That was what really did it for me. They were like pulling the rug out from beneath us. And so they gave us less than one year notice about that.And so I had to find a new practice. And again, I kept striking out. I kept looking and, and struggling with. So I, I, there actually was a point where I thought I might just have to sell our charts and, and maybe I wouldn't, I was like, maybe it's not gonna work out, or, um, you know, maybe we'd have to rent chairs out of a friend's practice, but what would that look like?Cuz we have our own team and our own philosophy and it just might be kinda awkward and that would only be an interim solution. So that was definitely hard, but thankfully, you know, my mom and I, we, we, it all made, it all worked out. My mom I mentioned that she's an immigrant, so she's from the Philippines.She went to dental school in the Philippines and grew up there and she just ran into. A friend from the Philippines mm-hmm. Who happened to have a practice in our town and happened to, it happened to be bigger. Mm-hmm. And when my mom mentioned to her our situation doctor was like, Hmm, well maybe I should slow down and maybe if Crystal can wait for me, I.Maybe I'll just sell my practice to her. So, it was kind of an ins like, it was just a very lucky moment because I don't, I don't know that she necessarily had an exit plan for herself at the time. She was just enjoying dentistry and Wasn't necessarily of the age to retire, but you know, the idea of having someone like me take over her practice sounded kind of good to her.So, and it just, my mom just happened to float the, I floated to her, so it worked out, Michael: so, yeah. Nice. Okay. So then, is it just your mom or do you My Chrystle: mom. Oh, as my, as works. Who works in our practice or Michael: no, I'm sorry. Like in your family, like, oh, Chrystle: um, at the, Michael: as the dentist. As a dentist, but I mean like as far as like, cause you talk about your mom, I don't know if you have a dad or Chrystle: Yeah, yeah.I have a dad too. And a sister who's like Michael: Coco. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, is he a dentist to the dad or your dad or no? Chrystle: Uh, no, but he's more of an entrepreneur, so I like to say that my sister and I are basically mashups of my parents, you know, one being an entrepreneur, the other being a dentist, and, and that's kind of like what we're made out of.Michael: Yeah. That's awesome. So then you started Cocoa Floss. Chrystle: Uh, 2015 is when we launched our product. Though I had been tinkering with floss ideas for years prior for lack of anything better to do with my time. I, I had two hygienists working out of the two chairs, and I would just like twiddle my thumbs, like, what can I do myself?Michael: What can I do by myself? Okay. No. And so at any moment, crystal, did you think like, I'm tired of doing, Or like, I'm tired of being a business owner. Like where was the moment where you were like, I don't wanna do this as much as I thought I did? Uh, dentistry. You mean dentistry or owning the business? Like as far as a practice.Hmm. Oh, Chrystle: that's really hard. So it only finally came to the like, clear decision that I needed to sell the practice or like, it was 20, it was last year, like in the fir in the spring of last year. And it was, it was so hard. And I still kind of like, yeah, I think I, I know I made the right decision cuz the doctor in there is wonderful.But uh, it was because my sister had a health scare and she, she's floss and she was like, crystal, I, I can't do this if I have to go through all this health stuff. So, What do you wanna do about it? You gotta let something go. Are we gonna let coco floss go? Or are you gonna let the dental practice go?And so, yeah, that's what happened. I was also pregnant last year. I was pregnant the entire year, last year. So had a, the entire year I was pregnant the entire year. I had a baby on the way. And busy with, already juggling both businesses and then my sister telling me that. She might need to take a step back from work and I would have to take over.So I was like, I, I can't do them all. Well, I would love to do them all, but if I wanna do them all, well that's not possible. And then the, the baby on the way was not something that you could defer or put off like the baby's coming. So, yeah, I made the decision to solve a practice and it was a very swift thing.Um, It wasn't even enough time for us to, tell the patients like I, I. Started to tell the patients now, because finally we've gotten around to sitting down and drafting a letter to explain it all to them. Um, but we did it with, you know, minimal upset to the practice, a very smooth transition. So I, I would say that I think patients don't even know, like they didn't know of the change because the team didn't change.Nothing changed about the practice. Michael: Gotcha. Why did the, I guess, cocoa floss weigh heavier, you know what I mean? Like, In this thing, right? Or in the pendulum. Right. Why did you guys decide to go, or you decide to go with cocoa floss instead of just your practice? Yeah, Chrystle: so I think um, it kind of, I realized that, well, like any business owner, c e o dentist practice owner, you have to try to delegate as much as you can and anything that you can hire someone to do in your plays, if they, if that's possible, then you should and you should focus on doing the things that only you can.So for example, like as a dentist, like if your a assistant can take great impressions or scan. Absolutely. The assistant should be doing it. The dentist should not be doing it right. It's all about managing that time well. And then what I learned through my first maternity leave in 2020 which coincided with Covid I was able to step away from the practice because I was on maternity leave and it was covid and the patients were doing okay without me.I mean, certainly they asked about me, they wondered where I was, but they were all supportive of the fact that I, had a, had a baby. And it was, it was fine. And the associates that I hired they loved her, so they didn't need me. And so I just felt like I was able to delegate. And I mean, of course every doctor, uh, is different and every relationship is different.So of course, like, I can't say that these, their relationships replace my relationship that I have with my patient. But I, I do think that, um, at Coco Floss, I'm. Uniquely positioned to help lead that business because, it was my idea to begin with, and I'm the one who cares so much about oral health and prevention.So it wasn't right for me to just, to, if I had to abandon one I couldn't abandon Coco floss. Michael: Hmm. Because, yeah, cuz of how unique the position is. It's, it's, you, you guys, you know what I mean? Like a lot of you is in it to where it's like you can't delegate. Chrystle: Yes, exactly. Whereas for the My Dental practice and when I first started, my practice name was just my name Crystal Coo, d d s.But um, some years, you know, maybe around 2014 or so, I rebranded the practice to Young Dental Group because my hygiene team was taking up both of my chairs. And so, um, I wanted to make sure that the name of the practice encompassed all of the providers of the practice. So it wasn't just about me anymore, it was about the whole experience for the patient and all the providers that contributed to the patient's care.young Dental Group. With that practice being less about me and more about the whole experience I could take myself out and it would still be Young Dental Group, Coco Floss. My sister and I, we lead the bus, we lead the company. And if you take me out of it, it doesn't really make sense cuz my sister, she wasn't a flosser. she doesn't care as much about oral health as I do. So yeah, I, I don't, I don't know. Basically I, I needed to be at Coco. Michael: Yeah, it has, uh, your perspective on it. You know what I mean? Like your whole I side of it, so you kind of need to be in it, you know what I mean? So then when did Coco floss to you become like, oh, snap, this is guys, this is a business.Like we're, we're making stuff happen here. Like, this is good mu or you know what I mean? Like when did it become a business? Chrystle: I mean, we've been growing very steadily every year. I remember, I think early on we started out of my apartment and then out my apartment moved to my parents' home.There were days when I would go home during my lunch break to help help my sister like pack boxes. And I think, uh, one of these days when I, one of the moments or times when I felt like, oh man, this is really business. When I go home for my one hour lunch break and see that we have like 300 packages to, to build, it's like, oh, now we're gonna do this all in one hour.That was one of 'em. And other times, I think, you know, going to dental meetings we started very simply at dental meetings with just like a symbol. Booth, like a table with a tablecloth. And now we're, we've got like a double booth at larger meetings, like at C D A, we'll have like a double booth.That's, and it's, it's always jam-packed. We need to have like at least six people manning the booth at any given time. And there's always people standing in line and that feels kind of crazy. It feels like, I don't know if you, I'm sure you've been to cda, but it feels like a wild bazaar. And so that, that feels, makes me feel like we have a business.What's also really exciting is next, in two weeks we're launching at C V S, so this feels really grown up now. Michael: Wait, you guys are gonna be in c v s. Wow, man. That's ok. Chrystle: Hey, we're like, this is, this is real. Michael: Yeah. I've always been curious, crystal, how does that work? Like do you just like, dear CV s, or what do you do?Chrystle: Well, I would imagine that that's how you could do it though. For all of our wholesale partnerships to date, including c v s, they've all been um, obtained via, like inbound requests from the buyers at these companies. So we've been carried at anthropology for many years, and it's because the, the buyer asked to have us there.And c v s likewise, the buyer. Is a personal fan of Coco Floss and she really, really, really wanted our product in their oral care aisle. So that's how it happened, Michael: man. Where was the moments where you were super like, like where you're like, yeah, this is it. This is part of, I guess, being an entrepreneur where it's insanely stressful.Chrystle: Oh, I feel that all the time. Um, My sister and I were always like schlepping things around. the number of like boxes we've had to carry and random things we've had to do. I, it just, it's kind of funny. Um, But I've kind of brought my family along on the ride for it. So, yeah, it is. I feel it every day and it's, it's really fun.Michael: Yeah. Is it a different type of stress than moaning a practice? Or like, is it the same, do you feel like it's the same, like, guys, this is the same thing, I have to manage employees and manage employees over here, or No, it's completely different. Chrystle: It feels a little different. So in the practice, it feels, I love how the practice feels so tight-knit.I mean, you see these people more than you see your own family. and it's the same people. Your team is there with you every day at Coco Floss. We're all remote, so we don't get to like physically be with each other, like can't really hug each other, for example. And so when we do see each other, it, it's really exciting, but it's all like, I'm on my computer all day.It's a very different type of work. And also the size of the business and the size of the team. Uh, coco Philosophy have about 30 employees now. The dental practice, it's always been around like 10 end to 12, so a larger team of Coco floss. the nice thing is that for both I, I still have as a dentist, they're both in pursuit of the same goal as just helping people achieve two for Michael: life.Mm-hmm. So then break it down for us, especially for the ones who are like coco floss, right? Or I've heard of it like coco floss. What is that? What is coco floss? Chrystle: It's a woven dental floss and it's infused with coconut oil and it comes in a bunch of fun fragrances. We always have it in, uh, coconut, strawberry, orange, and mint.And throughout the year we have seasonal limited edition fragrances. Like here we have watermelon and we have, uh, chocolate here. And, uh, I think there might be, well you don't see it in this picture, but we have like passion for it or pineapple. So just trying to make flossing delightful and fun.Trying to turn a chore into a treat and make flossing into something that you look forward to and that you wanna do. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And so you guys, I know in some pediatric practices that we work with, like cocoa flosses in there, is there like a specific different price for practices compared to like, somebody from cvs?Chrystle: Yeah, so we do have a dental sales program where we are selling direct to dentists. They get to order this size, this small size. It's like an eight yard, and it's like about a two week supply. And usually dentists are putting that into their hygiene goody bags. And we also have the 33 yard size, which is what people can buy to anthropology or at cvs and.Practices are buying that at about half price and then they resell it to their patient for retail price. And then also we have like a large school that's like a professional size that, clinicians are using chairside and they use it in their procedures for all the perio procedures and also even restorative procedures.Michael: Okay, so it's available for them? Yeah, it's available for them, yeah. Nice. Okay. So I guess. How can this, cuz I remember when I was working in a couple practices, like water picks was like coming up and it was like, this is it. Right? Is that something where you're like, okay, this is our, not competition, but like, how does that work?Chrystle: Well, I mean, I, I think water picks are great. I don't have anything against water pick at all, but I don't believe that they're of true replacement for flossing. I think it's a great adjunct. unfortunately, I've had some patients, say that they were water picking exclusively and not flossing, and I've seen recurrent caries around usually like multi-unit restorations like bridges or even interproximal caries.And so, I don't know. I, I just don't know that the water pick can always get underneath rest restorations or in between teeth in the same way that floss can physically deprive those areas. Mm-hmm. So I, it's not yeah. Not a replacement, but water pick's a great adjunct. Michael: Yeah, because we were water picking.Me and my wife are like a really, I still do it, but she's the one who. I'm gonna floss too because I'm, you know what I mean? And so I was like, okay. Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know, double clean, I guess, but I didn't know that until you just told me right now. So, Chrystle: yeah, I mean that, of course curious doesn't afflict every patient, but I, I've seen it enough times where I can't tell a patient I can't do it.Like, consciously, like, you know, I like to tell a patient they, oh yeah, you can just water pick. I, I won't, I can't feel good about it because I've seen the carries that people get still with using water. Michael: Gotcha. What have you seen with people using cocoa floss with their marketing, like dental practices?How have they used it in a, like a unique way or a different way that, you know, maybe like brings better brand awareness or even attracts new patients, things like that. Chrystle: Yeah, so I've seen a lot of practices use Coco Foss as, one, as a way to draw patients to the practice. For example, I've seen patients, uh, practices, offer, let's say like a Yelp check-in reward, check in on Yelp and get a Coco Foss.So, gonna incentivizes people to check in on Yelp and, and usually these people who check in on Yelp eventually write a review, which as we mentioned is, can be really impactful for growing a business or growing a. I also see practices using cocoa floss. To display in the, the front desk. The, the display that we have, it's like a jar and it's the colors of Coco Foster candy.Like, so, de that feeling of delight that you have like walking into a candy shop or like walking into a florist where there's like this explosion of color. Like, why don't have that in the dental office? Because dental offices are typically thought of as like sterile, cold and fear-inducing places.So when a patient walks into a practice and they. Oh, well that's kind of a nice surprise. Like it's an uplifting type of color to see. It kind of, it helps ease anxiety and helps kind of make the patient a little happier. So the PA um, practices will have the Coco FLS in the front desk area and they'll be, selling it.And then in the. back um, in the chair side, when a patient is floss with cocoa floss, it feels so different. And usually patients just like, what is that? Mm-hmm. Because unlike a slippery floss, like a, like the Teflon types of floss and that are so slippery and thin and then they actually kind of can hurt sometimes when you floss.Mm-hmm. Yeah. Your gums and they make your gums lead. Coco fo is, it's thicker and it feels much more substantial and it's scarier. So, your hygienist, your dentist will floss with it. And it's like, whoa, what is that? Because your teeth feels so clean instantly, and it also smells good because plaque smells disgusting.And then, you have this like waft of like sweet strawberries and the patient's like, oh, that's really nice. Yeah. that it makes a difference. And then again, with the hygiene bags, if a patient, uh, sent home with a coco brush and a coco floss it really tells the patient like, wow.This practice really cares about using the best quality materials. they're giving me this amazing product. So, it speaks volumes about the values of the practice and then it, it becomes like a, a another reason for the patients to talk about it with their friends and family and refer more patients to the.Michael: Hmm. Do you guys help the practice, I guess like the back office or anything, like when they order coco floss, do you guys help 'em with that? Like maybe the rep or anything? Chrystle: Yeah. Yeah. We do have a little sales team and um, we obviously like really wanna help, help practices become successful with coco floss, so.Mm-hmm. We are doing everything we can to handhold as much as we need to um, handhold practices through making it successful in our. Michael: Man. It's cool how, uh, crystal, like throughout this conversation you can still see like the, when you were younger and you're like the volunteering kind of thing where you're just like, I just wanna help people out, kind of thing.Right. That's it Still today, like you're just like, I just wanna help people out. Like I wanna hold their hand in. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you one of the last questions. Throughout this process, I guess, from the moment you decided to own a practice mm-hmm. To. What's been some of your biggest struggles or fails or pitfalls?Chrystle: Well, for the longest time, I mean certainly time management is something that I had, I've had to get really good at, but I've. Also struggled with the feeling of guilt because when I was working at the dental practice, I'd feel guilty about coco floss or if I'm working at Coco floss, I feel guilty about the dental practice.Or for either of them, if I'm working more than, more than I should be, than I'm guilty about not spending time with my family. So that's something that I. Struggle with I'm getting better about it, and it's super helpful that I have a very supportive family. And we just do everything together.Like, for example, I mentioned like schlepping boxes everywhere. Like my kids at this point have, come with me to dental meetings and they're, they're with me on these rides where we have like the whole minivan filled with boxes. So that's, but yeah, guilt has been something that I've, I've struggled with, but I, I think that this is all just a part of who I am and I'm always working on.Michael: Yeah. How are you work? Like I know like right now you let go of the practice, but I, you know, a lot of people do, I guess, talk about, especially parents like mom guilt, right? I guess how are you working on that? Like what advice can you give us for that Chrystle: advice? So I just, focus on, one of my personal.For myself and what are the things that I care about and my passions and, and I just make sure that all of the things that I'm doing in my day-to-day align towards that goal. the good thing is that despite letting go of my practice, I do feel like my, you know, my professional goal in life is to help people achieve teeth for life.And so I, I believe that I'm continuing to do that, so I don't have to feel so guilty about letting the practice go, cuz it doesn't ha again, as I mentioned, it doesn't have to be me going in and, and treating. Patients, like I have other doctors who could do that. And here I'm, leading this brand growth and hopefully hopefully inspiring even more people to um, take better care of their teeth.So just focusing on the goals, like what are your, and then that's really hard and it's something that you probably, I think people should at least revisit at least annually. And just think about like, what is it that you're passionate about and what are the goal, your goals, and then how can you align all of your daily actions and how you spend your time towards those goals.Michael: Mm-hmm. Have you ever caught yourself? It's changing constantly. Like maybe not constantly, but like pivoting and you're like, oh my gosh. And then you feel like what you've done in the past, you're like, I guess that was, some of it was pointless. You know what I mean? Kind of thing. Or cuz my goal pivoted.Has that ever Chrystle: happened to you or? Um, I try not to have too many regrets, but I, I'll say I have a lot of fomo. A lot of fomo. I mean, I actually really love clinical dentistry. I had so much fun being able to transform health and transform, you know, my patients. In terms of like confidence. I love Invisalign, for example.I became totally obsessed with Invisalign, and I miss that. I miss that time with my patients and being able to like, really make an impact in their lives. So there's my FOMO and I, I don't know what I'm gonna do with it yet. The, the practice sale was very recent.I don't know yet. I'm gonna own another practice in the future if I'll, you know when I'm gonna, Start working again in clinical dentistry. my baby is very young, and so it doesn't make sense at this time. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I, I don't know. We'll see. Michael: Awesome. Crystal, thank you so much for being with us.It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Chrystle: Of course. So I'd love it if you would follow us on Instagram. Our handle is get coco floss. Our website for all of your patients is coco floss.com. And for dental professionals you can find us@cocoflosspro.com.And if you'd ever wanna reach out to us you can just email us@helpcocofloss.com. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely check it out. And Crystal, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Likewise. Chrystle: Thank you.‍

Minal Sampat and I have a weekly newsletter called Weekly Hacks. It's for pediatric dentists and pediatric practice owners only, and we share one effective growth hack every week to achieve big wins. no fluff, no spam, just your weekly dose of what you need to grow. Subscribe here to get this week's hack in your inbox! https://mailchi.mp/9d2a4644fd31/the-pediatric-dental-marketing-newsletter‍‍‍‍Hey docs! In this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode, Minal and I go over 5 key tips to social media for your pediatric dental practice:‍Post at least 4 times per week‍Get specific with targeted ads‍Drive engagement and comment on your posts‍Link back to specific posts in an email blast‍Use AI to workshop your captions‍Following these 5 tips will take the headache out of "what should I post?" or "My ads aren't reaching the right audience!" Above all, being consistent, utilizing technology, and getting involved in your social community will help build your audience and bring those pediatric patients in the door.Listen in as Minal and I break down these key tips even more in this week's episode!‍You can reach out to Minal Sampat here:Website: https://minalsampat.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/minalsampatllc/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RealTalkWithMinalSampat‍Other Mentions and Links:The Pediatric Dental Marketing Course EnrollmentChat GPT"You Will Read This First" Post‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Minal. So talk to us about social media marketing specifically for pediatric dentists. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us attract new patients with social Minal: media?Social media is incredible. But I think what happens with social media is most of the time we don't know what to do with it. Like everybody keeps telling you, be on social media. Be on social media, but what do you actually do on it? Right now? This is like a six hour workshop on social media. but what I wanna do is I wanna give you guys five specific tips on how you are going to leverage social media as a pediatric dental practice.Mm-hmm. Here's the first. If you are going to be on a social media platform, whether it is Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or whichever one you decide to do, even LinkedIn. LinkedIn is huge. Nobody talks about LinkedIn, but I'll get into it, is you want to post at least four times a week. Mm-hmm. So everybody who's listening four times a week, three of those post should have actual photos or videos.Of the practice, not stock stuff, not any of that. And the fourth one is free for all. It could be a review post, it could be a educational post, it could be a carousel, post, whatever you want. But out of those three, You know, you want to focus on showing your practice culture. Right. And because we are a pediatric dental practice, I mean, come on, let's face it, we have the cutest patients.We have a lot of fun in the practice. If you're seeing, and I'm going to be very, um, minimalistic in this, even if you're just seeing 10 patients a day mm-hmm. Which we all know, we are seeing way more. And you're open five days a week. That's, you are seeing 50 patients a week. I'm saying take three photos or videos.You can totally, totally do this, right? So the first thing is you need consistency. The reason you need to have four times a week minimum, and that's what I recommend anyways, like I don't think you need to go crazy with every day or stuff like that, but four times a week is because the platforms need to know that you spend time on it.Why would the algorithms show your content and your page to people if you log in once every two weeks to post? So, It doesn't help you. So if you decide to be on it, the first thing I want you to think about is consistency. Consistent thing with content that shows off your practice culture, not stock photos.So if you're working with a third party company where they're just posting your blog post or your reviews there, it's, you know, you're getting no engagement, it's not helping you. and if it's not helping you, don't do it. Stop paying. Instead, take those photos and videos and start posting it. That's tip number one.Tip number two, when it comes to social media, you also need to leverage ads, especially on Facebook and Instagram. In fact, on Facebook and Instagram, specifically on Facebook, when you click on the Boost ad and you go to demographics, you can target parents with specific age group of kids. Let me repeat that.You can go to boost post, you can select your area, you can select age groups, so for your parents that you know, you usually see, which is going to be anywhere between 25 to 45. Right? So, and I would recommend that you choose females like women, because women usually are the decision makers for healthcare.And also they're the ones who usually shop on social media. So I would do women, put down your town, put down a radius around it, depending where you're located, how far your patients come to see you, and then put down the age group and then go to demographics and go to parents. And you'll be shocked because you could target parents with specific age group of kids, like zero to three, three to six, six to nine, nine to 12.Parents of adult kids. Oh yeah. So now when you're boosting that post to some, to a audience, that post is directly going in front of your potential new patients, not just random people. These are parents. Mm-hmm. How does Facebook know how old their kids are? Well, you could ask Facebook, but they know how old their kids are because guess what?We share everything online. So because of that, They track everything we share and they know exactly what's happening in our lives. I mean, Facebook also knows recently moved if once you go in there, it's mind-blowing how much information they know. So that's the first thing. So first thing you're going to go ahead and make sure that you post the second thing.You're going to utilize ads and you're going to do targeted ads to parents, cuz that's our audience. The third. engagement truly matters when it comes to social media. So how many likes and comments you have matters. If you have a post on Facebook, let's say comments are the currency on Facebook and Instagram.Even on LinkedIn, anywhere you have comments is better. So if people are commenting on your post, you should hundred percent comment back because what this does is that it keeps that algorithm alive and keeps your post trending. But here's a strategy. Don't comment on all of them at once or don't like on them, all of them at once.So don't go like, like, comment, like, comment, like, comment, like comment at one time because once you're done liking and commenting back on all the comments, you're done. So what I do is I follow a strategy. So my strategy would be if I get comments on a post, which is always my goal to get comments or likes or saves or whatever, I would go ahead and comment back, but not like the.Or I would only go ahead and comment back on half the post at one time and then wait a couple of days and then comment to the rest of them later. Why am I doing that? Cuz I want the algorithm to be trending. I wanted to keep showing that post, right? So if I know that if the post is getting comments, the algorithm's gonna be like, oh, this is great.It's getting comments. Let's, let's push this up again. Even though this was posted last week, let's push it up. And another cool thing is what happens, Michael, every time somebody likes or comments back, don't you get an alert? Yeah. So what I want to do is I want to send you an alert again, right? So let's say that I am on Instagram and I have a previous post where I got comments, so I commented back on it, but I didn't love all the comments.So right. As soon as I have my next post that popped up, I'll go back to my previous post and I will hit the like on all the comments that God had because now. It's alerting everybody who commented on my previous post saying, Hey, men just liked your comment. Men just liked your comment, just liked your comment.And then you're gonna go to my page and you're going to see my new post, ah, strategy. I mean, I'm a marketing strategist. I live it. I walk it, I breathe it. but, um, yeah. So you want to. Some engagement on there and be careful about how do you do the engagement.That's a third step. Now, the fourth step is going to be a little bit more harder, but follow me along with the fourth step. So this was something, uh, that I myself learned at a conference, and I think it's a brilliant idea and I've tried it multiple times, is, you know how every time you have something that you celebrate, right?So, like a doctor's birthday and when you have a doctor's birthday, you get all these comments and likes, like that's the post that usually gets a lot of comments and likes and engagement. So this is, again, this is a specific strategy. So follow along with me guys. What I want you to do is go ahead and post it on social media like you would always.But then I want you to open that post and then grab the u r URL of that actual post. So not the u R URL of your page, but you, when you open that post, whether it's Facebook or Instagram, you get the actual U R L of that specific post. Okay? So go ahead and copy that url. Then you are going to go into your email newsletter system or text system that you have going out to your patients.You're going to take that. You're going to add that same photo that you added on social media, and you're going to send out an email and you're going to send to all your patients, Hey, it's Dr. Ab and C's Happy birthday today. Uh, help us, wish him a very happy birthday by clicking the photo below or the link below.So all you have to do is on that photo in your email copy or the text, you add the link to the same exact post. So now when they click on that post and they go on to that specific post on your social media platforms, You are taking your current patients from email to your social media and they're going to comment on the social media post.Hmm. You see what I mean? Yeah. Because you linked that same post to the URL of that actual post. So I know there's a lot of posts and talking going on here, but this strategy works because the number one question I get is how do I get my current patients to be on social media with us? Mm-hmm. Give them a.This is a great way for you to bring them. So anything that you know is going to get a lot of comment and engagement and your patients wanna be involved in, which is clearly wishing doctors happy birthday, use this strategy. Post it on social media. Copy the UR of the exact post. Go ahead and have the same photo send out via email and text, and then add the link of the exact post on there so now people can click on it and go there to.So I know it. It was kind of a boozy, right? Michael: how do we find the Minal: url? Click on. Just click on the photo. Oh, I never open it up. Yeah. When you click on any photo, you get the actual url. Even on Instagram, when you click on a post it'll and you go on share, it'll give you the actual URL of that, that exact post.Michael: Okay. I never knew that. I'm gonna go on to your post Real. And then the U r O would be found. Where? On where, where are you on Minal: Facebook or I. Michael: Instagram. Instagram. Minal: So Instagram, you wanna go on your phone? You wanna go onto your phone? Oh. Oh. And then you could do it. Cause Instagram is a phone app. Oh, no, no, no.You Michael: can also do it on, on desktop. Minal: Well, there you go. Then you've got it on desktop too. So they must have a data. Look at, my Michael: gosh, look at this. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I'm looking at your New Year's start list of tools to make life easy. Right. Minal: So when you click on it, do you see how it, yeah. You see how it gives you the exact.Yeah, so now I would take the same photo, right? Put it into my email copy and with the exact URL and send it out to my audience and say, Hey guys, do you want to go ahead and, uh, get all these tools or tips? Go ahead and click on this link and it'll take you to my Instagram where you can see it. Yeah.So you do the same thing. I know it kind of works very well. Michael: That's, that's really good. By the way, depending on when this goes, is gonna go out, if you guys can go follow Manal Sampa, LLC on Instagram, there was a post you did. You said you'll read this first, you'll read this second. You, you, I did it exactly how you told me.I would read it and I was like, yay, man. Like, how you predict it, you know what I mean? it's a pretty cool post. So I'll put a link to, I'll put a link to that post in the show notes below, but Awesome. So these are the four steps we can do. Minal: And then the fifth one. And the fifth one is going to be even better.You guys are ready? Yeah. Okay. So, you know how you always want to make a post, but you never know what to say. Mm-hmm. Every day, like, yeah, like every time it's like, man, I have this really cute photo, but I don't know what to say about the photos. I, I, I, I didn't post it. Chad, g p t. Chat, G p t. So if you need captions, right, this is what you do for captions, guys.You go into chat, G P T and you said, Hey, gimme a caption for a pediatric dental practice. Or you can put on your practice's name, right? Gimme a caption for a, B, c, pediatric dentistry, uh, about a photo where a kid is high-fiving the doctor. And it'll give you a caption and you can be specific. Gimme an Instagram caption, gimme me a Facebook caption.Don't use hashtags or add hashtags, or I'll add emojis and it'll give you the caption so you don't have to worry about it. In fact, I'm training all my team members right now and like all the practices I'm working with, so they all get a social media calendar on what to post, right? Like what ideas, what strategy, what to post, and then they can now just go into chat G P T and come up with their captions.Michael: That's really good, man. That's really, and by the way, for those of you who are in the pediatric dental marketing course mm-hmm. we are putting in more modules on chat, G P T. Mm-hmm. This one case, you guys wanna know more about that and how to utilize it to better your marketing.You can find that in the pediatric dental marketing course. But then this is the five things we can. Right when it comes to this, where do you manal see the roadblock where people drop the ball, Minal: it becomes too overwhelming. what to post, when to post, how to post, who's going to do it?do we have fun content? And then the, the last part, When you don't see immediate success with it, you, you want to give up cuz it takes work, right? So you, you put all this work in and then you're like, oh my God, I'm putting all this work in, but I'm not getting immediate satisfaction. Well, you are not. It takes time like everything else. Social media takes time.You have to build an audience, you have to engage with them. You have to show them who you are to show them the practice, culture, your services. Remember, uh, there was a theory many years ago that said that somebody has to come across your. Marketing message seven times. Mm-hmm. Um, before they make a choice.Now that has gone out the window. Now we have like 27 times, 37 times. Cuz ev we are constantly being distracted by other messages. And because we are constantly being distracted, that just means you to keep going. What your focus should be is, am I getting engagement and are people saving my content, engaging with my content.And many times when I go into my own content, I'm like, oh my God. Only, you know, 40 people liked it, but I go into my saves and 175 people save. And that's what I want, right? So look at the goal. What is your goal? And then work towards it. Everything else can be taught. I mean, we. Pediatric Dental marketing course together, Michael, that you and I kind of go through and we do hands-on, you know, stuff and I have like hands-on training and I show how to do things and how to create calendars and systems and strategies and all that fun stuff inside it.So information is out there and you know, we are here to help you along with it. You just have to make sure that, one, you stay consistent with it. And two, you also have some fun with it. You know, don't let it get to you. Like then get, don't get into. Of, oh my God. Look at the likes and the comments. I don't have enough.No, there is. You're competing with yourself. Mm-hmm. You are good. You're okay. So once you have those two things, consistency and being able to have fun with social media, you're going to find results. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome. So if anyone has any further questions or concerns you can definitely find on Dental Marketer Society, Facebook Group, or where can they reach out to you?Minal: Absolutely. So my website is minal san.com, which is M I N A l S A M P A t.com. And since we clearly talked about social media, come hang on Instagram with me. You know, I'm Minal san on Instagram, Minal Sam on Facebook. Send me a friend request, I have a digital creator page there and I share a lot of tips.And then Michael and I, uh, we have just started this awesome, awesome thing where we are doing, uh, is it weekly, Michael? Yeah, yeah. We are doing, uh, weekly. Pediatric dental specific tips. So you know how we just talked about all of this. If you want nine pediatric dental Real Ideas, it's coming to you next week.By the way. Just f y I letting you know, it's coming to you starting April. We are going to have this, we have opened up this awesome newsletter Michael and I both, we have had a lot of pediatric dentists reach out to us saying, can you guys share ideas with us? Why? So we opened this newsletter, Michael, you're gonna put that in the show notes here.Mm-hmm. Michael: Yeah, I'm gonna, and to be open and honest with you guys, a lot of people have asked us that. And me and my, I were like, okay, let's, should we start a Facebook group? Should we start another podcast? So we said easiest way for us and easiest way for you is just to be living in your inbox, right? that's what we're gonna do.We're gonna send you. Every single week. And that's the best way you can talk to us too, is just hit reply back on those newsletters. And then you can talk to us that way as well if you have any further questions or concerns. But like we mentioned before, the pediatric dental marketing course, that's where you can mastermind with us monthly.That's where you can get them latest, advice and also strategies on all, everything you're listening to here, especially with also, ground marketing. And it continues to grow, so it's like a, it's a course, but it's like an ever-growing course. Minal: It's a course's, an ever-growing course, because unfortunately or fortunately, social media marketing keeps changing and we have to keep changing.Like, for example, Michael just added an entire thing on Chad g p t inside the course because of how powerful it is. And as things change, as life becomes different and as the world we live in keeps to elevate itself, we are here with you and Michael. And I always love to say that the course is not done for you, but it's done with.And we love that cuz every month we also kind of come on in and do exactly this. Like you ask specific questions and we mastermind and we share and strategies and um, you know, so we kind of keep it, keep it real, you know, we are pretty transparent people so we kind of keep it real and we share ideas.But yeah, so how we can reach and get some more ideas. We can join the newsletters, check us out, Michael and I on Instagram too, or Facebook and we. Michael: Yeah, we got you. So awesome guys. Thank you so much Al. Thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Minal: Thank you for having me.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍‍Guest: Stephanie NivinskusBusiness Name: SizzleForce MarketingCheck out Stephanie's Media:‍Website: https://SizzleForce.comSchedule an Appointment: https://www.SizzleForce.com/scheduleLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanienivinskus‍Other Mentions and Links:StarbucksQuicksilverNational Football LeagueCox CommunicationsForbesEntrepreneur MagazineAbsolutely Unforgettable: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Creating a Heart-Centered Brand and Standing out in a Noisy WorldCPAP Machine - Continuous Positive Airway Pressure MachineNierman Practice Management‍‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Your offline interactions AND online followup with patients should both make them feel heard and appreciated.It's great to have a sterile office, but having a sterile vibe isn't always inviting. Try adding a sense of warmth to your practice feel!Always think from the perspective of the expert, rather than the salesperson when educating patients.People are not excited about giving up their email or phone number! Provide a valuable incentive for offering their information.You cannot optimize something that isn't well documented.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Stephanie, how's it going? Going Stephanie: great. Thanks for having me, Michael: Michael. No, thank you for being on. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located? Stephanie: I am in San Diego, California. Michael: Oh, man. Stephanie: Did you guys get any snow? No, but we got a lot of hail and we had hail ball fights, hail ball in my front yard.Cause we were so excited. Like literally we packed together. Hail. Yeah. And maybe hail balls, . And my kids and the neighbor kids, we had hail ball fights. It was amazing. Michael: Is that, does that hurt more or, Stephanie: well, I don't, I wouldn't say we had enough to do damage. We just had enough to have a lot of fun. . Michael: Gotcha, gotcha.I like that hill ball fight. Yeah. Interesting. All right. So Stephanie, can you tell us a little bit about your past, your present? How'd you get to where you Stephanie: are? . Yeah. So I have been in marketing going on three decades, which is crazy. Mm-hmm. . I started, my career in 1995 and, started working, free.com, and working in the newspaper industry and, and then.com became a thing, and then wireless became a thing and my career path kept unfolding in different versions of market.For for those different types of media. And then in 2009, I went out on my own and I started my company Sizzle Force Marketing, and now I run a fractional C M O service, which basically means a part-time chief marketing officer and a full implementation team for all of your day-to-day marketing needs.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. What are some things that you. because you said you did pre.com, right? Yeah. Can you, and I'm Stephanie: still alive, . Michael: And I'm still alive. So what are some things where you're like, sting haven't changed since the pre.com, till today? Stephanie: You know what? The way the human mind works has not changed. , right? Mm-hmm.humans still wanna be cared about. They still wanna feel like they're understood. They still wanna feel like they have hope for a solution for whatever pains ail them. You know, all of those things, humans at their core haven't changed just the way that we communicate with them has, right? Mm-hmm.meaning the tools that we use to communicate with them, but at, at our essence, we all still want the same. , Michael: which is co what? Communication or Stephanie: Yeah, just empathy. Mm-hmm. , right? We wanna feel heard, we wanna feel understood, we wanna feel valued, we wanna feel like we matter, like we're appreciated. All of those things.And, and those are things that are super relevant in a dental practice, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . If, if I go to the dentist and, you know, it's a, it's a kind of a rougher on the edges, experie. Right. And I don't feel appreciated. Like, here, let me give you an example. Yesterday. Mm-hmm. . Yesterday I had a phone, a telehealth appointment with my doctor.Okay? Now, mind you, I pay out the nose for my insurance, right? Just every month. It's painful. It hurts my, it hurts my heart, right? Well, last week I had something going on, and so I requested an appointment. I had to wait six. to get a telephone appointment, not even a face-to-face appointment, okay? Mm-hmm.six days rolls around. That's yesterday. I finally get the call from the doctor and I ask her my question and she gives me an answer. Then I said, oh, can I ask you another question about something else? And she goes, I don't have time. I only have 10 minutes for this call. And I'm like, I had to wait six days for a 10 minute slot with my doctor.that was a rough around the edges experience. Okay. Mm-hmm. , and very disappointing. And I did not feel appreciated at all as a customer, despite the fact that I give them like 2,500 bucks a month for my insurance. Mm-hmm. , right? Like, oh my gosh. Well, thank you. How much do you make an hour if ? Yeah. You know?Right. And I think any, whether, whether you're a a doctor, like for, you know, a general practitioner kind of doctor, or you're a doctor of dentistry, right? Or you're literally any other type of professional people want to feel cared about, heard and appreciated. Mm-hmm. . And yesterday that doctor was a big fat fail.Michael: Yeah. Yeah. No d So then, , are you gonna continue with that doctor, Stephanie: or Well, well, the problem is, well, yeah, but that's a whole other issue. with the healthcare system. . Michael: Gotcha. No, that, but it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, you're right. We do want, so today you said that doesn't change, right? Humans still want to be cared about.They want to have that empathy. How can we utilize that today with the technology that we have to, I guess, grow our patient's? Yeah, Stephanie: numbers. . Yeah. I, I think I think that what we have to remember is while technology is incredible, automations are, you know, really powerful behind everything. It still goes back to h to H, right?Human to human. Mm-hmm. , right? We need to utilize these tools to communicate compassion and empathy. So, you know, how can we do that? Lots of, there's lots of different ways. everything from. Well, let me give you an example of my dentist. I think he's a marketing master. Okay? So how many dentists have I been to over the years where I literally felt like a number and it was like, oh my gosh, just get me in, clean my teeth and get me out.I don't wanna be here. I don't like you, I don't like what you're doing in my mouth, and I would like to leave now. Okay? Mm-hmm. , pretty much every dentist I've ever had until, until I met this guy. All right. , he actually makes going to the dentist fun. And I, I'm not even kidding you, my kids, my husband, myself, we're all like, we like almost get excited to go to the dentist now, which is the weirdest thing for us, right?Mm-hmm. , the way that he does that in the office is he creates a really just kind of happy, uplifting experience, okay? When you walk into his office, first of all, , his decor is bright and colorful. He, he doesn't have these muted colored old chairs from 1983. You know, he's got bright and colorful paintings on the wall.And he actually, the name of the company is Scripps Rock Dental, and he has like this life size statue of. and he has a choke box and he's like really into music. That's his thing, right? So you go in, he's playing super cool music, like music that you, you wanna bop to. Yeah. Okay. Right. And yeah, he just makes that experience fun.The second thing that he does is his front office staff is more like a front office concierge. . Okay. I feel like when I go into that dentist, a, they know my name even though they have a bajillion patients. Right. It, it's not that they necessarily remember my name, but they've looked three minutes before I walk in the door at who's coming in and then they say, hi, Stephanie.Good to see you again. . You know? Yeah. They just make me feel seen. Then. , you know, it's everything from, oh, please have a seat. Would you like some water while you're waiting? Dentist will be with you in just a couple of minutes. I feel very cared for. I get escorted back to my chair.When I go back into the office and you know, they ask me, are you comfortable? You know, would you like to watch something on tv? Would you like the headphones? Would you like to wear these special glasses? . Right? It's, it literally, I feel like they're, they are a concierge. Okay. So it, it starts kind of with the offline experience, right?But then if you want to turn around and figure out, well, how can you leverage technology to make people feel cared about and seen and whatnot? It's more of what happens after the appointment, okay? Mm-hmm. , it's the message that comes. The evening after you've had your appointment, the email or the text that you get from the dentist saying, Hey Stephanie, how are you feeling tonight?I just wanted to make sure you're not in any pain, wanted to make sure that you know, your teeth feel good, or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. , shoot me back a quick text to let me know you're doing well, right? All of a sudden, I feel so cared about. I'm like, oh my gosh. How many people did he see? and he's just asking how I'm doing.Maybe it's a couple days after if it was a more substantial procedure that I had done and it wasn't just a cleaning or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. , maybe you get a root canal and it's a few days later and it's like, Oh, hey Stephanie. If you're feeling any sensitivity in your teeth tonight, I recommend just having some soup for dinner.Don't try and chew anything that's gonna hurt your teeth, blah, blah, blah. This can be delivered through text. It can be delivered through emails. It can be delivered in a ton of different automated ways where you're leveraging the technology. But you are practicing human to human. . Yeah, Michael: I like that. I like that.You're right. You're caring, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Awesome, awesome. That's really, really interesting. I love seeing your input and your point of view, you know what I mean, when it comes to someone who's not so totally involved in the clinical side of dentistry. Not at Stephanie: all. Yeah, no, I, I speak as a, I speak on behalf of the people,Michael: I, so let, let me ask you then just two, two questions, and then after that we'll go into, The, the workshop. Right? But I wanted to ask you right now, what do you hate about dentistry or dislike? Stephanie: What do I dislike about dentistry? Well, I dislike the experiences I had until I met the Marketing Master of Dentistry, right?Mm-hmm. that I go to now, I disliked the very clinical. Feel of the dental experience, you know, walking into this sterile, not in a way. Obviously the dentist needs to be a sterile environment, but I I'm saying a sterile environment in terms of there's no warmth to it, there's no care, there's no there's no empathy really.And that's how most dental experiences that I. have been, right? Mm-hmm. . So, yeah, I, I never like that, you know, I mean, just, I don't know. I don't, I don't think people put, maybe they, they put so much effort into, becoming really good at the work that they do, that they forget about the customer experience.Mm-hmm. . And it's a huge reason. Why there's such, you know, churn in the dental industry, right? While, you know, if, if, if it's just a transaction, if I just come there to get my cleaning every six months and I don't feel cared about, well, why on earth would I ever remain loyal to you? I have lots of choices.Every other day I get, you know, Big postcard in the mail with some new dentist offering me a cleaning, come in and you can only pay $29. Well, if I don't feel like I've had an experience with you that's worthy of returning to, why would I not just shop on price, right? Mm-hmm. , I would, I, I mean that's, see that's the thing is like if you don't differentiate your practice, people will make decisions based on price alone because you're just like everybody else.Michael: Yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. And then what do you love about dentistry? ? What do Stephanie: I love about dentistry? On behalf of the people, I will say I love the fact that, when I have been in pain, you get me out of.Michael: Got you. Wait, actually y yeah, that's true. But you're, your dentist. Your dentist. What do you love about the, what they do? I know you told, you told me that they make you feel warm empathy. Right, right. Anything else on that? There's Stephanie: a very neighborly feel to the dentist that I go to now, and let me tell you this, we have dental insurance.He's not covered in our. We pay for dental insurance that we don't even use. We pay out of pocket for him, and he is not cheap. And we do it because the experience is that good. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, there's a very neighborly feel To his place, you know, I mean, we all live in our own neighborhoods, right?Mm-hmm. and you know, I know he sponsors the little league group and the little soccer players. And you know, here I am, I'm a soccer mom, and so I'm like, oh, I like that. He is like supporting the kids, you know, . Yeah. Yeah. , he does things around Halloween, like, bring in all your candy that you collected and I'll trade it for prizes.You know, so he gets kids not eating so much candy and, but they get cool prizes instead, you know. Hmm. Okay. You know, Michael: just things like that. Yeah. Someone who's involved in the community neighborly, right? Like you said. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Interesting. So, , Stephanie, what can a dentist do today to improve their marketing and business?Stephanie: So I am a huge believer in something that is called the customer value journey. Mm-hmm. , and I think there are about 0.001% of dentists who even know what that is. So let me explain it. Yeah. It is a seven step journey. identifies every step a customer takes from the moment they learn you exist to the moment they become a raving fan.Like whoever thought I'd be sitting here talking about my dentist because he's that cool. I, if you had sold me, I would be doing that today. If you had said that to me five years ago, I would've been like, you're, what are you on, you know, . Well, I would never do that. Okay, well, okay. I do it because he has his journey figured out.Okay, so there you want me to talk to you about the seven steps? Yeah, let's dive into that. Okay. So, the first step is awareness and engagement, right? So you need to figure out, you need to document this stuff. How are you going to. The marketplace, meaning your target market in wherever location you are, how are you going to make them aware that you exist?And then what are you going to do to foster engagement with them? Okay. The second step is what are you gonna do to get them on your list and get permission from them to email them or text them or whatnot? And this is. only after they come in and they're a patient of yours? Mm-hmm. . Okay. What can you do before that?Step three is the convert phase. It's. , what is the offer that you are going to make to them to create a, a, a first level transaction? That's where a lot of people will do that. You know, $29 cleaning offer. Mm-hmm. , that's a good conversion offer because it's a, a very low priced entry point to expose somebody to your brand and your experience, and then you move them up from there, right?Mm-hmm. into being a profitable patient. . The fourth step is the excite phase, right? What are you going to do to create a memorable experience like my dentist has, right? Mm-hmm. and, and transform the experience from a nice to have to a must have, right? Transforming somebody like me who will pay out of pocket more than I ever thought I would pay to go to the dentist.because I like to be there, . Yeah. And he fixes my teeth. Right. All right. Step five is the ascend stage. And this is where you're really maximizing every opportunity you have to make a profit, right? So what does it look like? You know, maybe somebody starts by, they come in and, and they get that one time cleaning, right?But, , what does the rest of the journey look like? Okay, well, they're gonna actually need a cleaning twice a year. So maybe the next thing that you sell to them is some sort of membership. Mm-hmm. , right? Where they can come in and if they're a member, they get their appointments prescheduled, then they get some sort of little discount on it.Okay. What's the next level? Well, maybe it's the membership with A teeth whitening, right? Or the membership with the teeth whitening and something else, right? And then it goes up and up from there, right? You wanna think about what you can sell them in increasingly profitable segments. Okay? So at the very top of this, you wanna think about like, what is my very, very best patient?the patients I make the most money off of. What are they buying, right? And so you create offers at all these different levels so that it, it's upsells and cross cells are pre-planned as opposed to haphazardly thrown out when you remember, okay? Mm-hmm. . The next stage is called the advocate stage.And it's what are you gonna do to get social proof? We all know we live in a social proof world. We all know that people are gonna check out reviews and whatnot. Mm-hmm. , you can let the marketplace control that or you can control that. It's very dangerous to let the marketplace control that because if they have anything that makes them unhappy or maybe their experience with you that day was perfectly fine.but they got in a fight with their husband after their appointment. So now they're just in a bad mood. Mm-hmm. . And they're gonna go on some review site and leave a skating review just cuz they're in a bad mood. Right? So you have to figure out what are you gonna do to make sure that you're controlling positive social proof, getting out there.And then finally the last stage is what are you gonna do to incentivize your patients to become your raving? And to send you a bunch of referrals. Okay, so there's seven steps, awareness and engagement. Subscribe, convert, excite, ascend, advocate, and promote. And each of these steps needs to be very carefully flushed out into a document because you cannot optimize something that you have not document.Michael: I like that. Okay. If we can rewind on some of these Yeah. Yep. And dive a little bit deeper. so for example, and I'm sure you might hear this sometimes, like number four, right? The excite phase, like you wanna create a memorable experience. Mm-hmm. how. , I guess. Was the doctor you have now different from other ones?What was the experience where you in the chair or in the moment you were this is, this is, he's doing number four. Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, it didn't just start in the chair, that's the thing. Mm-hmm. started long before I got in the chair. It started from the moment I made the appointment and how pleasant they were, and you know, Conversational and friendly and neighborly, right to the moment.I walked into the to the dental office and I was greeted by name. I was escorted back to the chair. You know, it's, it's like the four seasons of dentistry, right? Mm-hmm. I think this is like, it's funny. To the moment, you know, I'm in the chair and they're, you know, offering me the special classes and they're offering me headphones and they're offering me to watch a show and, you know, whatever.Frequently checking on me, are you comfortable? Does anything hurt? Blah, blah, blah. To the moment I was done. Stephanie, how can we make this easy for you? Would you just like us to bill your account, or would you like to go ahead and take care of your payment today? , to after the appointment, the aftercare emails.Right. The memorable experience does not start in the chair. Mm-hmm. starts long before you get in the chair, and it continues to long after you're out of the chair. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. So from contact 0.1, right? Like Yeah. Or even before that, even the, I guess number one, awareness and engagement. , what could a dentist do for number one to create great awareness and engagement?Is that just like, okay, let's just send out Facebook ads mailers or, Stephanie: yeah. I mean, those are both things that can happen, right? Mm-hmm. , and there's a lot of different ways. You've got organic marketing and then you've got paid marketing, right? So, organic meaning, you know, , you can grow a lot of awareness if you have, if you're young, in your practice especially, you can grow tremendous awareness by being on TikTok.Mm-hmm. , right? Being super active on TikTok, that doesn't cost you anything. It costs you time, it costs you creativity, right? Mm-hmm. . But it doesn't literally cost you any money to create, tos, and it can totally grow awareness for. . You could do Facebook ads, you could, you know, you could do ads on any of the social platforms.You could do direct mail, you could do oh goodness. So there's so many different things. You could partner up with an orthodontist. . Right. And, you know, assuming that your offices are somewhat close together, you know mm-hmm. , maybe the orthodontist has been in, in practice a little bit longer than you, and you create some sort of referral campaign with them, right? where they will send out an email blast to everybody on their list saying, Hey, we wanna introduce you to our new neighbor. , you know, Dr. So-and-so, we're really excited to be in the same plaza with them. Be, you know, because they have these skills, right? Mm-hmm. and they endorse for you. Okay. So yeah, there's, there's so many different ways to do that, but there's a few ideas.Okay. Michael: Yeah. So those are the, like the, the platforms and the marketing mediums we can use. And then when it comes to option two or number two in this I guess like value, like this workshop basically, right? This whole. Yeah, get them on your list and get permission to email and text them. How do we do that?How do we, I mean, I guess in the sense of like, do we offer an incentive in these ads and then that's how they click in? Is that Stephanie: what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. So, you wanna think about, People are not usually super excited about giving away their personal information. Mm-hmm. . So you have to give them an incentive to do it, right?No, nobody woke up this morning and said, I wanna get on all the email and text lists so I can be bombarded with offers all day. Mm-hmm. . Right? So you need to think about, well, what valuable contents can you give in exchange for getting that information and permission to follow up with? So this is where it could be something, it, it could be a discount on something.It could be you could create some little package like you know, I don't, I don't know what your margins are in dentistry on the fancy toothpaste that y'all sell, right? But like, you know, maybe if you have an awesome margin on that. , maybe you can give away little little fancy toothpaste for sensitive teeth.Right. I think I paid $40 for toothpaste. Michael: Really? Okay. Cuz I was gonna ask you, like, let me ask you, Stephanie, what would, what would make you, like you or your family be like, here's my email, here's my, here's my number. You know, like what incentive would. , Stephanie: Well for me it would have something to do with teeth whitening.Okay. Yeah. Because that's something that's just on my mind. I'm like, I need to get my teeth whitened, you know? Yeah. So if, if there was something, you know, and I don't even know how the process works, but maybe if there was an opportunity to come in and. Let's say it's a multi-step process, right? And they said, you know what?Come in. We're gonna do step one of the teeth whitening process for you at no cost. We just wanna offer this to you. Mm-hmm. , I'd be like, yeah. Oh, okay. Here you go. Here's my info. Yeah. Right. I would do that. Now, here's the thing is that sometimes people will be like, well, that's something I sell. I'm not gonna give that away for free.Are you nuts? and I'm like, well, this is what we call in the old days, a loss leader. Okay? This is where you are giving away something that you could sell. But if it's valuable enough to somebody like me, I will give you something that's really valuable to you, meaning my contact information, okay? Mm-hmm.So you're asking for something that's really valuable to me. My privacy. . Mm-hmm. , give me something that's valuable to me in return. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if you're not willing to do that, if, if you're just like, Nope, I just wanna get your info, well, you know, good luck getting any legitimate info.People might write something down, but it's not gonna be valid. They're not ever gonna look at it. Right. Michael: Yeah, no, I I I love that. I love how you. , I'll put that out there because it's true. Like we, it's um, it's also the first transaction, right. That you're ever like kind of seeing with them. But I agree.And when it comes to the phase five here, or step number five, ascend. Mm-hmm. maximize every opportunity you have to make a profit pre-plan plan. So can you break this down to us? Let's just say, cuz this happens in dentistry, right? I'm not gonna lie. Like, sometimes we're like, okay, we gotta, let's see if we can like you.have them, let's push teeth whitening on them. Right? Or let's, let's push, uh, maybe they need instead of, um, I don't know, a crown where we can get implants or something. Right. Like just upsell. Mm-hmm. , how does this work when it comes to pre-planning? So do we pre-plan this? Like, let's just say this month of March we want to do upsell our teeth.Widenings, right? um, and they can be trays, like bleach trays. Mm-hmm. , how would. recommend we draw this out. Stephanie: So you, you could change it every month but you certainly don't have to. Mm-hmm. , I would think about, I, I would think about what your core flagship offer is to begin with, and then what logically makes sense as the next step.So it's not as much, I think, when. , quote unquote pushing things. Mm-hmm. , you're not really serving your patients, right? Mm-hmm. Instead, think of it like the expert that you are. I am a doctor of dentistry and I know to get optimal dental health or , however you guys say it, , right? This is what really needs to happen, you know, to have a smile.you see a reflection of in the mirror and you feel good about right, and to, you know, have teeth that last through your lifetime and and whatnot. This is really what needs to happen. So think about it from an expert perspective as opposed to from a sales perspective. and the sales will naturally follow.Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. . Michael: Yeah, I get you. So then you mentioned core flagship offers. Should we all have like a specific Stephanie: offer always, or, yeah. I mean, but everybody does just inherently. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's probably a teeth cleaning, so Michael: like 50 or like free or like a 50% off teeth cleaning kind of thing.Or like, new, new patient examined x-rays and teeth cleaning a bundle, like something like that is what you. , Stephanie: you could do that. Yeah. The, as you wanna think of the ascension phase as like a ladder with different rungs on it. Okay, so the bottom of the ladder is that core flagship offer, right? It's the, the teeth cleaning everybody needs.Well, what's the next step up from that? That would be a really good idea for people to also, , right? Maybe it's okay, we'll come in and get a teeth cleaning. But then really for optimal dental health, you should be using this electric toothbrush at home and this special whitening toothpaste. Mm-hmm.So, so we're gonna have an upsell for that. Okay. Not because you're just trying to get all the money out of me, but because you're serving. . Okay. You're serving me and, and you're telling me things I don't know. I will tell you again, going back to my master market or dentist. Okay. I used a good old fashioned $2 toothbrush for 45 years of my life.Mm-hmm. . Okay. Never thought twice about it. Then one day I went in and he goes, you know, you brush your teeth too. And I was like, how's that even possible? He goes, I don't know. I think you're taking your aggression out on your teeth . And I'm like, really? You know? And he goes, yeah, well, and it's actually causing this problem because that's why you're having this issue and that issue.And the other thing that I, which was part of my complaint when I got in the chair, right? Like, okay, I need you to look at this cuz it's really sensitive, it's kind of bothering me, blah, blah, blah. And so in. Act of service to me. He said, yeah, you know that problem you brought up, well, it would be helped if you used this electric toothbrush and this toothpaste.Now, for all I know, he is blowing smoke at me and he is just selling to me, but he's real good at it. , if that's the case. . I don't think that is the case though, because I got sucked into it. I bought the really expensive special toothbrush, then I bought one for my husband, then I bought one for each of my kids, okay?Mm-hmm. , whatever, however many hundreds of dollars later, you know, with our fancy toothbrushes. I can tell you, we go into the dentist now and the hygienist will be like, oh, your teeth look fantastic, Stephanie. You know, and I'm. . Well, that's because I have my fancy toothbrush. Michael: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.Okay, so it's about serving, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's the part where we have to pre-plan, right? Not so much like, I guess horizontal, where it's like, all right, this month we're gonna do teeth whining. This month we're gonna do toothbrushes. This month we're gonna do fluoride. Right? It's not that. It's more like the ladder, like you mentioned.Yep. Yeah. Stephanie: Okay. Yeah, and always, always, always be service minded because if you're just out there, I mean, I, you know, when you asked me earlier, what do you hate about dentists? Okay. I will tell you, I had many, many experiences in the past where I would go to a dentist that was on my plan with my insurance and.it, it really did, it did not feel like they were really looking out for my best interest. It did feel like they were just selling me on stuff, right? Hmm. Oh, well, you know, you need to do this and you need to do this. And like, I can tell you, the guy that I go to now there has been more than one occasion where he said, well, you know, I see something starting here, but you don't need to address it yet.Just you. We don't need to, you know, fill this cavity or, or whatever, whatever it is. We just need to keep an eye on it. Okay. That makes me feel like I can trust him. He's not just like, oh, I see something, let's get a root canal started, Michael: you know? Yeah. Makes sense. Okay. Interesting. And then number seven, incentivize patients to become a raving fans.Mm-hmm. . Break this down for us if you can, because I know sometimes we can't, we can't say like, here's a hundred bucks if you leave as a review. Right. So how can we incentivize patients to become raving fans? Stephanie: Yeah. You. it. This is different from getting reviews. This is the, the promotion stage is about getting people basically to spread the word about you more directly to a friend or family member as opposed to the general public leaving a Yelp review, okay?Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I, there there are lots of different things that you can do e everything from, you know what, if you send us three new patients, , we'll give you a free teeth whitening experience. Okay? Or if you send us a new patient, you know, we'll send you out to dinner at such and such a restaurant, right?It, it doesn't have to be, you know, you wanna think about, okay, how much, what is the lifetime value of a new patient to me in my. . Okay. The lifetime value is far beyond that initial cleaning cost. Mm-hmm. , right? Let's say it's, you know, well twice a year at whatever, 80 bucks to get a cleaning, well, let's say a hundred cause I can't do math.Okay? So $200 a year. And that's just for cleanings. That's not for all the other things, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I'm sure. . I would think a lifetime value would be at least five figures of a customer. Mm-hmm. . So if you're gonna make $10,000 plus off of one patient in their lifetime, would you be able to spare a $50 gift card to a restaurant?I think so. That's like stupid math. Yeah. . So we, we need to be thinking more long-term than short-term. And if you provide that memorable experience, people will come back. They will come back, they will want to come back. They will get on podcasts and talk about their great dentist . Michael: Yeah. That's interesting.I like that. When it comes to you, Stephanie, what incentive would you. Like you and your family, what are you thinking when you're like that? What if he sent me that right now? Mm-hmm. I'd find I'd make uh, I'd go get three people right now. Stephanie: Well, for me it would be a spa day, . Ah, okay. Okay. But that might be a little weird coming from the dentist.So why would that be weird? Why? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Why would that be weird? That would be weird. I don't know. Maybe cuz he's a dude. I don't know. There's something weird about it to me. It just doesn't sit right. So other things that would incentivize me, you know, just things that I might not otherwise treat myself to, right?Mm-hmm. , and again, kind of going back to what I said before, that teeth whitening thing. Now that wouldn't always incentivize me, but it's on my mind right now. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, I wanna get my teeth white. And if they said, Hey, you send us three new patients, I would call all my neighbor. I'd be like, Hey Susan, you need to go to the dentist.Yeah, , and you need to go see him and tell him I sent you. And then she'd be like, why is he so great? Okay. Well, I would tell her why he's so great, because he really is, I wouldn't just do it to get whatever, right? Mm-hmm. , I would do it because I believe it, and then she would go and I would get three people, and then I would walk away and have my teeth whiten for free.And I would be thrilled to do that. So if any of you guys that are listening would like to whiten my teeth for free, making an offer, Michael: making an offer, she's in San Diego. . Okay. That's interesting. But what, let me ask you this. Would you prefer more something clinical like that, a teeth whining, or would you prefer something more?a spa day, but it can say like, Hey, it's coming from the team, or it's coming from all of us, thank you. Or something like that. Or, or something not clinical. Stephanie: Hmm.Well, it feels like more of a treat if it's not clinical. Okay. Okay. So it feels it's, it's a little more exciting and fun to me. Mm-hmm. . , you know, just, you know, here you work hard, you should go get a massage on us. That's a treat that not everybody affords into their daily budget. Right? Yeah. But most people really enjoy that.Just getting a timeout. Mm-hmm. and, you know, we live in this crazy world where we all work too much and, you know, run around like crazy people. Having an excuse to take a time out and somebody else foot the bill is pretty Michael: nice. Yeah, interesting. That's really, really good insight. Awesome, Stephanie.So any other piece of advice you like to give our listeners or our doctors listening, Stephanie: I just wanna go back to fleshing out your journey. Flush this out on paper. Do not keep this information in your head. Flush it out on paper with your staff. Right. And. , watch what happens when you logically walk people through this journey, okay?If you don't, if you don't ever document this, there are a lot of people who will get lost along the way, and every lost patience is a lost opportunity. It's lost revenue, okay? This is how you don't just get customers in the door, but this is how you keep customers for life. , and that's what you want, right?Yeah. Michael: Awesome. So thank you so much for being with us, Stephanie. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Stephanie: Sure. Yeah. Our company is sizzle force.com. Sizzle like Bacon force like me, the force be with you. Sizzle force.com. And if any of you would like to talk about digital marketing um, you can schedule an appointment by going to sizzle force.com/schedule.Love to talk Michael: to you. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to Stephanie, especially if you wanna pick your brain a little bit more about the, the journey that we've been talking about and also the digital marketing that she does for you guys. So go to Shawn's below for that.And Stephanie, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you. Thank you.‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Simon ChardPractice Name: Rothley Lodge Dental PracticeCheck out Simon's Media:‍Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drsimonchard/‍‍Other Mentions and Links:PearlBACD - British Academy of Cosmetic DentistryAACD - American Academy of Cosmetic DentistryPärlaTime MagazineInterview about appearance on Dragon's DenCereciTeroBufferLaterThe Daily Stoic - Ryan Holiday and Stephen HanselmanHow to Invest - David RubensteinThe Almanack of Naval RavikantUnreasonable Hospitality - Will Guidara ‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:It's not about what you want to post on social media, it's about what your viewers want!Getting outside your comfort zone is the only way to grow. Keep this in mind when second guessing that next step!Success is never earned through constant succeeding, it is always achieved through failure instead. Failure is an important part of the process!If you're enjoying the journey along the way, then embrace your hard work and ambition!If your only driving factor is financial, the passion will eventually fade. Be sure to work towards your other fulfilling values and goals.There is a season of life where saying YES to all opportunities can help you grow your network. Don't forget about the season of saying NO to opportunities to prioritize your values though.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: simon, how's it going? Very well, mate. Thank you for having me. No, man, thank you for being on. We truly appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking, where are you Simon: located? I live in Sur, so just south of London in the, in the suburbs.Michael: Okay. Did Simon: you grow up there or no? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've grown up in this area, so it's, it's a nice place to live. It's. Countryside, but it's about a half an hour commute into the center of London, so it's a nice mix of the, the, the busyness of the city alongside some nice outdoor lifestyle. Nice. Michael: If you don't mind me also asking, like you, where you're at right now, is that your home or is that your Simon: practice?Yeah, it's my home. It's my my dining. Michael: Guys, man, he's in a mansion. This is it. This is the west wings of his . This, I'm excited to have you on Simon. If you can tell us a little bit about your background. Tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you Simon: are today? Yeah, sure. I mean, I'll start at the beginning, I guess.So I'm, I'm from a, a family dentist, both my parents and dentists. My parents bought their clinic together six months before I was born. That's the same practice that my wife Megan and I bought from them back in 2017. So there's a sort of generational lineage of dentists there. I always joked that there was a, a, a mirror and probe in the cutlery draw when we were growing up.So it's yeah, sort of in the blood. So that was my path. I actually went and did a different degree before going into dentistry. So I did a, a degree in pharmacology, so in drugs first, and then did my training at Kings College London, in dentist. Basically as soon as I foundry, I found my passion.I found what I feel like I was meant to do. I never looked back. From that point. I was very lucky at Kings to have a, a variety of fantastic professors who sort of pushed you to compete. Even from an undergraduate sort of student level. And that meant that by the time I qualified as a dentist, I already had a pretty solid cv pretty solid sort of background of awards and prizes and experience, which meant that I could sort of hit the ground running when I qualified, Michael: man.And then you already had your own practice and then right now I know you got your hands in a lot of things. . I also follow Kyle. He's been on the podcast before Stanley, right? Talking about Pearl and everything. And so I saw you and I was like, they're out here doing a lot of moves, man. Like, so what do you got going on right now?Simon: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a busy, busy year. So yeah, obviously I run my own practice. It's a. Seven surgery practice with about 30 staff members now. So that's going very well. That's growing, growing rapidly. Primarily driven just through sort of organic social media and organic word of mouth. Not a lot of paid ads currently.I'm the president of the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, so that's the, the biggest academy of dentist in the uk. Similar obviously to the A A C D in the. . So I'm the youngest ever president of that academy. And I also own a uh, a co-owner. Plastic free next generation oral care brand called Parlor which is in all the major supermarkets and, and stores across the uk. yeah, is doing very well. And we've got our whole, whole team running that alongside it. And then recently, this last month, I won um, I was, yeah, voted. The dentist who's had the most impact in dentistry in the UK in 22 by Dentistry Magazine. So that was quite a nice award to win as well. Yeah.Michael: How does that work? do you, I guess, like submit or they just like randomly pick, you're just like, oh, I'm it, you just see your face on the thing or? Well, Simon: it, it, it wasn't even a, it's the first time they've done it. They've based it off the sort of Time Magazine person of the year award. Mm-hmm. , and.Uh, Because it didn't exist. There was nothing to apply for. They as a, as a committee of sort of industry experts, came together and, and analyzed all of the high profile individuals in the market. And very fortunately, and they're very grateful to say that they, they chose me, which is, yeah, it's nice yeah.I mean, running all these things, Cool. And it, and oftentimes it is really cool cause you get to win awards like that. And we've had some amazing experiences with with Parlor. Like we were on the dragons Den, which is Shark Tank in the uk. So we were on national TV with that. So it has, its amazing sort of really peaking exciting moments, but it's also, a lot of stress and spinning the plates can sometimes all go a bit crazy, especially as I've got two young kids as well.Throw that in the mix and it all gets a little bit saucy sometimes. . Michael: Ah, man. So you got a family too, real quick. Simon, how Simon: old are you? I'm 36. Okay, Michael: man. Yeah, you got a lot of, you know what I mean, like everything going on. And we'll dive into that in a little bit uh, later on in the episode. But if we could rewind a little bit, you did a degree in pharmacology.Why did you go that route? Simon: Initially. Strangely enough, I think I, I listened to my peers at school and there was this one kid who said, oh, you don't wanna do what your parents did. That you, that's really lame. For some reason, that stuck in my head. So I just always discounted dentistry as something I wanted to do.And then actually when I got to my first university to study in pharmacology, coincidentally, my, my roommate was training to be a dentist. And I saw the community that he had and the practicality of being able to use your hands alongside, science, which I've, I've always been sort of fairly good at.I sort of saw in that first term at university that really dentistry is what I should be doing. Thankfully in the UK you can complete your degree and then miss out the first year of dental school. Cause a lot of it's just sort of basic science. . And so basically I did a fast track into dentistry from there, which, which worked out really well.And, basically I did a lot of my partying in the first degree and then really got my head down and got to work on my dental degree, which for me worked, worked really well. Michael: Yeah. Okay, nice. So it's interesting you, did your parents by any chance say like, nah, Simon, like, I don't care what your friend said, like, trust me, we, this is a good setup right here or something?Or, or were they Yeah. Do what you. Simon: No, they were children. I mean, they, they, they never wanted to push me or my, my siblings into anything we didn't wanna do. So from that point of view um, they, they sort of let me make my own decision. I also think, to be honest, that I, if I had gone against, at that first degree level, my grades probably wouldn't have been good enough.I didn't, I wasn't parti. ambitious or academically talented at school? Cause I didn't really have any, any focus or any drive. And actually it was, it was when I'd started at dental school, that was the first time that really sort of felt that I found my groove and and I actually started excelling and yeah, won of these awards and came top clinically in the year.And so, I, I, I'm not a sort of serial, a serially successful. I wasn't at that stage a seriously successful individual. Whereas now, sort of I'm hyper ambitious and, and driven, which is yeah. Very different than I was as a teenager. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I feel like that's um, once you found, right, this is what I wanna do, you went all in right.And became ambitious. So kind of like right. , you're like, I'm, I'm, I'm finding things that I want to do and I'm going all in. Right. And it's, it's making you, what's the downside of that? If, if you can let us know, like, Hey man, it's great to go all in, but then this could happen Simon: if there is a downside. Yeah, no, there's definitely a downside.I mean, I, funnily enough, my wife and I were talking about this on the phone as, as I was driving home from work that I just, I, I can't switch off. So there's always The next idea, the next business opportunity the next product that I'm creating with Parler, the next thing I wanna do to grow the practice.It's a constant state of progression and flux. And, my view on that is as long as you're enjoying the journey, then keep on driving and be as ambitious and shoot for the stars as as big as you wanna go. If you are grinding out and hating the journey, then sometimes enough is enough and you, you.You need to be grateful whilst being ambitious. And I think it's finding that balance between gratitude and ambition that's quite difficult for, for of type A driven entrepreneurial individuals. But I think for the, for the younger clinicians listening, I have this type, I, I don't think I made this up.I think I heard it somewhere, but let's just say for this, for this call, I made it up. Was that I said yes to everything in my twentie. And said no to everything in my thirties. And for me, that worked quite well because when I first qualified, I said yes to every opportunity that was presented to me, whether it be a speaking gig, doing lecturing going to an event where I didn't know anyone.It was really awkward and I really didn't wanna be there because I wasn't a naturally sociable individual at that stage. Whatever it was I just said, yes, yes, yes, yes. And what that meant was I just created this incredible network. I met so many people many of whom became future mentors or future employers because I worked in, in multiple different practices before coming in full-time to my own clinic.And so by saying yes to everything, I've got this incredibly broad experience. However, if you let that go of forever, then it becomes unmanageable and, and you. Especially when you have kids. So in my thirties, I've now tailored it right in and I'm very, very selective with what I say yes to. But I can only do that because I've got the I've built it from that solid foundation of a network of guys from industry as well as sort of high profile dentists and, and people sort of who were the movers and shakers of, of our industry, I guess.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So you mentioned about the journey. , you gotta enjoy the journey. Um, Make sure you, you love it. How do you know Simon, when you're just in a road bump in the journey and you're like, oh my God, this is a headache. I hate this. Or how do you know? It's like, I'm not enjoying it anymore at this point.Simon: Hmm. That's a difficult question. I mean, I, I, I think you've gotta know why you're doing things and. What your ambition really is. If, if you're just doing it for money, for example, then that will fade and you will, it will, you will lose your passion for it. If, if the only passion there is the financial recommendation, then I think it's very easy to get jaded then to lose, to lose that.It's a personal thing at the end of the day. I mean, some people love dentistry, some people hate dentistry. Every job has its pros and cons. And I think we're very fortunate to actually do something that is genuinely meaningful for our patients and that we get a lot of satisfaction from.But clearly it has a lot of a lot of negatives as well, because there's still such. Massive issue with mental health within the profession. So I think it's really important that, that people don't just keep on driving because they think they should love it. Maybe taking some time away. So actually create a bit of open head space and then coming back to it and seeing if you actually want to go back or if you wanna move away from it.Michael: Hmm. I like that. Creating open that space, right? Like have you had to do that where you're like, oh man, I need to take some time, sit here and really think. , am I gonna drop this or am I gonna keep this? Simon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously I have, the beauty of dentistry is that you can. Toggle up and toggle down the number of days that you're working quite easily.So I've done that. Clinically, I only work three days a week clinically. Now, the other two days I'm working on sort of more entrepreneurial endeavors. And so I've found a, a lovely balance. Certainly if I was still working six days a week clinically now, I don't think I would've been enjoying my job half as much as I am doing now.. And even saying that sometimes it goes too far. I'm, I've got inbound emails coming in all the time, and if I'm in a three hour surgery placing implants, I'll come out and have 30 emails in my inbox. That's quite stressful, . and quite difficult to manage. So, I think it's important to create space the way I manage that.As I, as I try to travel as much as I can. Do, I try and block out times in my every month where. I'm just gonna be at home. I'm not gonna be doing any social stuff. And I'm just gonna be chilling with my family. And then around every six to eight weeks, I'll make sure that I'm going away somewhere to travel.Try to do a sort of as much of a digital detox as I can do. I'm obviously fairly active on social media. It's how I've built up a lot of my profile, and that's how I still get a lot of my patience. But social media can be obviously, A dopamine overload and, and very much or consuming if you don't know how to control it.So switching that off, controlling that so it doesn't control you. I think all those things were super important. Michael: Hmm. Where was the point in your life where you realized you had to do that? Where you're like, man, this is it. The I need a something, right. Something different. sometimes it can happen where it. You're, like you said, you're talking with your, your spouse, right? And then the af they're like, man, you're always doing this. You're, you're on social media, you're doing this. And then you realize like, I need that dopamine in the morning. I'm waking up at night.I'm going to sleep. I need to check it in the restroom. You know, all this stuff. So it's kind of like, when did you realize I'm going down the wrong, wrong path.Simon: I think, I mean, I, I think I, I dunno if I've really cracked that yet, to be honest. I think I still have that dopamine addiction and I think I just constantly want to be moving forward. And when you have the capability to look at your Shopify account, On your direct to consumer business to see how many sales you've had, look at your emails to see if you've landed that new retailer listing.Look on your Invisalign like doctor site to plan your cases. Like there's, there's so much now that you can do all the time remotely. I think certainly for the last five years where I've been running the startup, been a, on the board of the b, c, d and running my own practice. . During that whole time, I've really tried to, to control that inbound.And for example, I've not gone on TikTok intentionally because I just don't want any more, any more things to check and I know, cause I'm, I'm fully, I'm sort of all over the latest things in social media and I can see the monumental power of TikTok. And I'm not saying that other people shouldn't go on it, but I've grown my business on Instagram.It's been very successful for me. But, I've kind of take, pulled back a bit from where I was in that, like, like five years ago. I been posting every single day grid, post, post, post stories, every, like, just going like really hard on it. Whereas now I think, I feel like I've, I've, I've got to a certain level of achievements so I don't need to continuously prove myself.And so, I've tried to pull back from it a bit more than I have done previously and really focus on just delivering sort of a few nuggets here and there in essence. Hmm. I like Michael: that. Where does that come from, where you feel like you need to continuously or what you felt like you've had to prove yourself?Simon: I don't know, to be honest. I think I've, I think I've been like that since, since dental. . I think uh, I mean I have, like anyone had, a reasonable amount, amount of form in my childhood. My sister had cancer when she was seven, which was a, a major, sort of seminal moment in my childhood. Mm-hmm. , um, and obviously in hers.Thankfully she survived and, and it's, it's healthy and well and has, has two kids of her own now. But she was in hospital for six months. It was, it was a serious, incident. , for the whole family. And I think for me, age nine at that time, obviously I had in essence lost my parents as they were sort of looking after my sister.I think that there's probably some, there's probably some, internal sort of desire to be seen if I'm gonna. Heavily myself to the max here. but um, I think the end entrepreneurialism and business is a passion of mine. And so I be as successful as I can do, as I can. And I derive my satisfaction from, from being a man and, and working in our industry.Really. Yeah, Michael: man, that's, sorry about your sister man. Like that's really um, light bulb a a light bulb moment. You know what I mean? For, I think myself, for a lot of us, like in essence when the parents' attention goes, you know what I mean? To like a one full kid. I never thought about that Simon until you mentioned it.Like mm-hmm. You kind of do lose a bit of your, you know what I mean? Like your, the attention you, not a little bit, a lot of, bit of your, the attention from your parents and, and that does stem where you're like, I need to, I need to work harder now for their attention. . And so you feel like that's where it kind of, from that point on and still, and then obviously magnified way more in dental.Simon: I'm sure, I'm sure it's played a part, but I mean, I think the thing is with success, when you, when you taste a bit of success, you won that success again, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, For example, I won best young dentist in the country in 2015, and that was an amazing award to win. But then I was like, right, that it's like gold medal syndrome, isn't it?It's just you, you, you get that big peak of dopamine and then you have the reverse crashed the same way, and then you want to go again to get up to that same level. And that's why I say it's so important that you're enjoying the journey, because if you are only striving for that one moment of success, it's so fleeting that actually it's, it's probably not worth it.Whereas if you're enjoying the journey along the way, as I do with entrepreneurship, I mean building a brand, building a profile, building businesses, that's just play for me. That's fun. And so, I don't look at that as being like, oh God, I've gotta listen to this podcast, or I've gotta come on this podcast with Michael tonight.It's, I, I, I just look at that as fun because I like to, I like to meet new people. I like to talk about experiences and, and all the the various components that make up running a business in, in 2023. Yeah. Michael: No, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. When it comes to the moments of success that you were talking, What would you feel so far is not worth it when it comes to striving for, and maybe you see it on social media where people are like, yeah, you gotta do your own startup.You're gonna love it, and maybe you wanna let them know like, no, not, not everybody's meant for this or not everybody's meant for that kind Simon: of thing. I mean, I definitely agree that not everyone's meant to be a startup entrepreneur. It's incredibly. , especially building a, I think you call them CPG brands in the us right?We call 'em Met fm cg, but consumer package goods like Parlor. Mm-hmm. like toothpaste. It's such a competitive market and you're constantly fighting uphill. You're fighting against the biggest brands in the world. You can leave her and part of Pro and Gamble and Colgate. These guys have got some serious money behind them.And so you constantly feel like you're running up a uphill treadmill. And the girl posts are always changing, especially doing it through a pandemic and, and now going into a recession. So it is, it is a rollercoaster emotion. I think if you don't have a solid support structure around you, then it's not surprising to see so many startup founders have mental health issues.I couldn't not do it. Like I just have this fire inside me where I, I, I can't not execute on my ideas, and I have a million ideas every single day. And so I had to actually execute on one of them. And I'm really proud with Parla that actually we, we've, we've done it. I mean, we've landed on, we're in over a thousand stores in the uk.We've got tens of thousands of subscribers online. So even if we fail from now, . I feel like we've achieved what we set out to do. And I've sort of actually made a difference with this idea where, I mean, the reason we created the brand is that 20 billion toothpaste tubes made a single use plastic end up in landfill or the ocean every year.That every tube of toothpaste you never use still exists somewhere on the planet. That's why we created a brand. So it's a plastic. Solution. And a zero waste solution as well. So I feel like I've made that positive impact as well as creating what is a really cool brand and also disrupting an industry that is in dire need of disruption.Gotcha. Wow, I Michael: didn't know that. So Parlo, what, why that name? Simon: So parlor means Pearl in Swedish. And we felt that the Pearl was the perfect representation of what we were striving to do as a brand. Obviously we're designed by a dentist pearl, white smile and then also the pearl of the ocean.We created the brand really to protect the ocean from single use plastic. That's my happy place. That's where I derive the most joy is when I'm on the ocean, in the ocean by the ocean. And to see the, the level of devastation of single use. Across the world. I mean, anywhere I travel, I see microplastics all over the beach.I just don't wanna see that get worse for, for my kids. And so Parla was, was the, my thing that I could do to actually, to actually make a difference in. I mean, it's dentistry small, but toothpaste. Everyone in the world uses toothpaste in these single use plastic tubes. So it is a big way that we can make a difference as dentists.And so, yeah, hopefully that'll be part of my legacy. Michael: Yeah, man, that's nice. That's beautiful. And so I kind of wanna rewind a little bit. You talked about your, your practice, right? The, the one you currently have, 30 staff members. Yeah, you have 30 staff , and so there's nine operatories, right? 7, 7, 7. I'm sorry, seven operatories, 30 staff members.Do you, let me ask you the positions of all them, you don't have to explain all their single positions or anything like that, but how does that look? 30 staff members, Simon: Structurally? Oh no, you're asking, I mean, I guess we've got about.10 to 12 clinicians but obviously part-time. And then around four or five hygienists. About five receptionists, again, part-time. Two practice managers and to treatment coordinators. . obviously those figures probably don down up to 30, but you get a rough idea on, on what the split's like.Michael: Gotcha. And so you solely run it, or you, and, and your wife is like the COO or how, Simon: how does that look? My wife's a dentist as well, and but yeah, she is, she's best basically the uh, the COO because, obviously with everything else that I'm running , I'm more of the ideas guy where youth more operationally working alongside our practice management team to make sure everything runs, runs smoothly.Okay, Michael: that's good. And so you mentioned you grew it, or actually, lemme ask you, how many new patients are you getting a month if you Simon: Roughly No. Uh, About 50 Michael: 50. Okay. And so organically you grew this through social media, right? They people are finding you through social. Simon: Yeah, so I mean, it's a nice it's a nice setup in the practice where obviously my parents have been there for 35 years.They grew it from a one surgery to a five surgery practice, and then we grew it from a five surgery to a seven surgery practice with a an additional scanning room and, and training center as well. And so it has this nice base of a local reputation, uh, with a large patient. . But then on top of that, obviously I've brought in the specialists, the technology, the cerec, the iro the, the focus on cosmetic and implant dentistry.So, I, I've brought in all these additional additional offerings, which means that we can service all of those existing patients with additional dentistry. But then on top of that, yes, I mean, . I mean, my following on Instagram is nothing, nothing major. It's only about 27,000. But I've been very successful in certain instances with working with influencers with them still paying for treatment but only re receiving a, a discount in exchange for some activity.And that's led to a lot of organic growth of patient demand. I think also because I was on Instagram, Ly very early on, just because photography's a passion of mine anyway, I sort of leveraged on, on most of the alpha of Instagram, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. , um, before now, em, it's incredibly saturated.Now. Everyone's doing Invisalign whitening and bonding on Instagram, certainly in the, in the uk. But it still drives patience and, and still I have patients coming from around the UK around the. Flying in to, to have the dentistry because they like, my specific style of dentistry, which I, which I, I was, I was talking about this um, on another podcast recently, I think about the fact that the thing that I love about social media with dentistry is that actually by the style of dentistry that you do, you attract a certain clientele of patience.So my style is very much A natural aesthetic. So my patients in general want to have a beautiful white smile, but they don't want anyone to know they've had their teeth done. Whereas there's certain areas of the country and certain dentists who, who carry out more sort of flay dentistry where there's less texture and more flat in size ledges and less translucency, and they, those patients almost want everyone to know they've had their teeth done, if that makes sense.Mm-hmm. as sort of like, A show. And so, I don't really get any of those, that second group of patients, I, I only get the patients and they, they always say to me, I've come and see you because I like, I like the style of dance. You do. I like how natural it looks, et cetera, et cetera. And so that's just a really nice self-selecting vehicle for my patients wear.They already know me from a personality point of view. They've, they've seen my profile online and they've, they've seen me talking to the camera, et cetera. But then secondly, actually the clinically we're on the same page as well. that point of view, it's worked quite well for me. Michael: So then what can you give us as far as like, advice when it comes to, Because you've seen that, right?Where people are like, man, Simon, I'm trying to grow my Instagram page, and I have like 105 and it's just like, you know, other dentists following me, but I want like my community to follow me, you know? New patients to get new patients from it. What do you recommend we do from like, if you can give us instructions to start from this point and continue to try and grow.Simon: Well, whether or not Instagram or TikTok is the right place to do that, I would probably say TikTok now, given how much more reach you can achieve, after obviously just saying that I'm not on TikTok, so I mean, that's fairly hypocritical, but that is, that is, that is the truth that TikTok is the place that you should be playing in right now.I think the key thing with social media in general is you need to be not thinking about what you want. You wanna be thinking about what the viewer wants. And so when you are producing content, Think about who you are producing that content for, and then create contact content that's gonna give them value for the things that they want.So, . Instead of just putting up a before and after, for example, fine put up a before and after, but then add onto that, right? This is how I did this. These are the steps. This is what's involved. Try and give more behind the scenes, more real stuff. Not, not necessarily reals, even though reals is what you should be doing, but mean more real content as in more behind the.I think the best way to be successful on social media is to be true to who you are as an individual and just be as honest and real as you can be. Because I think people fall into the trap with Instagram density, where they try to just replicate what they've seen has been successful with other individuals, and then all that happens that everyone just starts looking the same and it just gets very, very dull and boring.I think the more you can be yourself and unique to you and your own values and your own personality, the the more you'll cut. . So I think by following those two things of thinking about what value you're providing to the consumer and to the viewer, and also just being true to who you are as an individual, that's the way that really should be thinking about the content.And then you just need to be doing it at scale. I think people are too sort of blase with, with how they how they produce their content. When I was doing it properly, I was having someone in every single. For a whole day to generate that content. And it was, it was a serious operation and we were looking at what was working, what trends were working, what, what was successful, and then putting our own spin on it.And, and as I say, trying to add value to the consumer with with the way we delivered it. And, and that worked very well for me. And I think if you were to implement that on, and I've seen this with lots of young guys in, in the uk, they've done, they've been incredibly successful with. If you can mass produce and batch produce that content, then it can be really efficient and you don't have to think about doing it every single day.You can, preload your posts using Buffer or later or something like that, and just have them running and then you, you can just sort of set it and forget it. . I say that, but then you really need to be engaging and communicating with your community if you want to grow it. So you, after it's posted, you probably do need to be on there.Liking, commenting and communicating. Michael: Gotcha. Do you still do that right now? Do, are you like having somebody once a month come in or No. Gotcha. Simon: Okay. You right now, I'm, I'm very lazy now. , Michael: you ain't like you're doing a lot, man. You know, that's what I'm thinking. Like, I feel like you're doing so much that you can kind of like take pictures, you know what I mean?And it's just on your Simon: own. Share it. Yeah. I mean, I think I, like, as I say, I, it's probably not the right way to be because. I think this is like the classic pathway of like Blockbuster and Kodak where they become very successful and then they die because they haven't adapted with the times. I'm certainly doing that at the moment, but I think at the same time, you've gotta just, you've gotta look at the realities of your own life.And for me at the moment, the most important thing for me is I've got two young kids and I wanna be spending as many hours of the day in the week as I can do with. . And so something has to give and I have to be respectful of my time and, and not push myself because I know, just because I know I can do something doesn't mean that I should do it.For example, I know that I would smash on TikTok if I really went through it properly and sort of producing content at scale, but I also know that's gonna take me a day, a day, a month, and I literally don't have a day a month. my diary is I have a pa, a personal assistant, and. It's literally blocked out by the minute.I mean, there's no, there's no room anywhere . And so that doesn't mean that I, I neglect my, my health or my family or anything like that. It just means I've blocked out my gym session every day. I've blocked out a therapy session. I've blocked out meditation. I blocked out family time where I'm not on my phone.But if I'm gonna add anything else into. Then something has to come out and at the moment there's nothing really need to come out to add that into. Michael: Yeah, man. Simon, you've, you're very aware, right? Like of your time, you're very aware of like your very specific, why, how did that come to be? Simon: Well, I think it comes back to learning where to say.and being, being respectful of your time and actually knowing what your val, what your life values are. I mean, my, as I say, my, my main focus is that my family is everything. I will never get this time back when my kids are, at this age. And once it's gone, it's gone. And I, I've heard so many successful individuals say that their only regret is that they didn't have enough, they didn't spend enough time with their kids when they were.So that's my main focus with regards to my personal life. With regards to my professional life. I'm very, very clear now on what my values are with regards to that as well, which is that I only want to be doing stuff that I enjoy and that I feel is meaningful and I only wanna do it with people that I love.And so that's how I make my decisions on. on how I move forward is that I, I, I don't, I have to be very, very careful with what I say yes to. And if it doesn't help me with one of those things, if I'm not doing it with people that I enjoy spending time with, if I don't enjoy it, or if I it's not allowing me to progress with something that's meaningful in my life, then I'll just say no to that opportunity.So, for example, if a brand that I'm not particularly keen on, gets in touch with me and asks me to do, An Instagram post and they're gonna pay me a thousand pounds, I'm, I'm not gonna do it because it's gonna take time outta my day. I, I don't, it doesn't, it doesn't fulfill my, my ambitions. Do you know what I mean?Even though it's easy money in, in many ways. Michael: that's the thing. Do you think this kind of can apply at any stage in our lives or, you know how, like at the beginning you said, when we're grinding and we're, we're, we're trying to say yes to a lot of things. Do you think it can't apply there?Because if you say no to, you know what I mean? Like what I don't want to do, then you're, you're not growing kind of thing or, Simon: or what are your thoughts? I think it's gotta be personal to you. I think you've gotta, you've gotta, I think awareness and self objectivity is the really important thing. And you've gotta, you've gotta know what your diary looks like and then tailor your attitudes to, where you're at in your career.For sure. You wanna push yourself outside of your comfort zone as much as possible. And I still do that now because I know that that's where the growth, that's where the growth area is. I mean, God, I've learned so much in the last four years on, on through running par on the, talking with retailers and margins and marketing and.To LTV ratio for my performance ads. I mean, there's just, there's so much stuff that I've learned in the last four years that is way outside of my company zone that I've had to just think on my feet. Like pitching to five dragons on, on Livet, on on live recorded TV for two and a half hours. I mean, that's pretty far outside my comfort zone.I've learned an incredible amount from it, and it's, it's created an incredible opportunity. So I'm definitely not saying that you shouldn't say yes to as much as possible when you're in your early stages, but I think it's just when you have lots of time pressures and lots of opportunities, you have to learn when to start tapering that in because there's only 24 hours in the day and seven days in the week, and so you can only do so much if that makes.No, Michael: that makes a ton of sense. Ton of sense. Okay. So one of the last questions I kind of wanted to ask you. One of 'em right, is throughout this time, your wife is a dentist, right? She's also operations, like the whole, she, I mean, she does all right a lot, right? When it comes to running the practice, family, everything.Yeah. And you, same thing doing a lot. Visionary when it comes to your personal life. I don't know. Do you guys ever agree like, all right, at this time we're not gonna talk about. work-wise, none of that stuff? Or is it more like, yeah, you know what, let's whatever. If it comes up, it comes up. If it doesn't, it doesn't.Or is it like, don't ever stop enough kind of thing with each other? Simon: You might get a different answer here from me and from Megan, but . No, I think, I think one, well, one time that we're very, very careful with is, is the time just before we go to bed. So we always make sure that we're not like dropping like.Oh, this, this hygienist just handed in a notice, like just before we go to bed or something. Or like, like not cause sleep is so important to us, to us both. And we try and uh, sort of flow down the brain in that pre in that free bedtime. So I like that that section is, is certainly sort of demarcated as, as not being appropriate for dental chats.But in general, I think that Megs and I are both very honest, open people, and if we're worrying about something, then we will just talk about it. I mean, I very much wear my hat on my sleeve. if there's something wrong with me, then everyone around me unfortunately will know about it. And if I'm happy about something, everyone will know about it.And so I think we have a very open and honest relationship where we are. We're comfortable talking about whatever. I don't think either of. Get, it is not being necessary to have that conversation to say, these are the times when we talk about this. These are the times when we don't. Because firstly, that's not the reality of owning a a small business.Things come up normally when you are on holiday, um, and you have to deal with them sometimes. So that is just the reality of running your own business. That's, that's what you sign up for. But also we enjoy it. And it's, it's, it's part of, it's, it's part of the fabric of our relationship. I mean, it's certainly.The majority of our relationship, but we've been together now for, for 13, 14 years. And it's, it's always been, obviously we, we grad, we, I met her on the first day of university. We graduated together. Dentistry's always been a part of our relationship, and so, uh, and now businesses as well. And it's just, it's nice to learn new things together and to grow together.So I think I, we look at it very much as a positive. Michael: Nice. You met her on the first day of Univers. You're like, this is, you're it. You're the one that, that that's how it went. Pretty much. Yeah. , that's, and she was like, yeah, I guess. Yeah, you too. Yeah. . So that's good, man. That, that makes me happy, Simon. And then last question is, throughout this process, let's talk about from the moment I guess you decided to open, not open this practice, but like take over your parents to like today, right?What's been some. Your biggest struggles, fails, or Simon: pitfalls?I mean, the biggest struggle was the pandemic, to be honest with you. Certainly that day when I had to call my team and tell them all we were posing, I mean, that was a, that was a very emotional day. and, uh, yeah, a lot of tears, a lot of anxiety around, when we were gonna open again, we. Terrible information for Mark governing Embodi, very poorly disseminated.I mean, we found out, we were going back to work on the BBC with, with everyone else, and they said Dentists will be open, or healthcare providers, we open in a week. We're like, is that us? Are we, are we, are we back in action here? , like we had no, no protocols. Like it was just, it was awful. It was a constant battlefield.But, I'm a very emotional person, so I, I, I feel that the ups and the downs very viscerally, but I am a huge advocate that the hard times are what you need to go through to get to, to get to successful parts of your life. And . Yeah, I think certainly. I mean, whenever something bad happens in any of our businesses, we're always just like, we're just gonna, we'll put it in the book, we'll put it in the book one day when we write a book of our, of our story.And so I think that's a good way to look at it, is that nobody who's ever run a business, ever run their own business, has ever succeeded their way to success. They've always failed their way, success. And that is just what happens. You've gotta, you've gotta build that resilience and you've gotta just understand.Your favorite associate's gonna hand in their notice or that patient who, you've tried your best for is gonna complain and, and sue you or whatever. These things are just the reality of life. Life is not fair. Life is not just, but you have to build that resilience and. I sort of push through.I, I read a lot of stoic philosophy, so I read I dunno if you're familiar with the Daily Stoic book. um, from Ryan Holiday, but I read that every morning uh, as part of my morning routine, first thing. yeah, I love stoic philosophy for looking, for looking at uh, a lens through which to look at the hard times in life because we're all gonna have them, right?Yeah, yeah, that's Michael: true. And you gotta build that. Resilience, like you said, when it comes to reading, I guess, is that the one that you're on right now, like as far as, or is that what you do in the morning for like, and then you read other things? Simon: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I only read the, the idea with that book is that you just read one quote and you sort of let, let that, sink in and, and process it as opposed to sort of rattling through.So I've been reading that for I think three years every. So I read one quote every morning. It's literally the first thing I do. And even travel with it. It goes everywhere with me. So yeah, so that, that I wouldn't really class as reading. The book I'm reading right now is called How to Invest by, I think his name's Daniel Rubenstein.Which yeah, it's quite interesting. I'm quite interested in sort of angel investing and that sort of thing as potentially part of. My ongoing career obviously with my sort of deep understanding of building a startup now and looking for ways to sort of diversify my, my portfolio moving forward.That's quite a, an interesting area for me. So yeah, that's a book that that I'm reading currently. And then the book that I always recommend to everyone, which I just think is so good is uh, the Almanac of Nav. . It's just an amazing book. It's just such a well-rounded view on life. I think everyone should read it.It's, it's so powerful. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. That I just read, finished it. Uh, I wanna say December. Really good book. Yeah. Oh, Simon: really? Yeah. It's, it's Wick. Good. it's the only book that I, apart from Daily Stewart that I've read more than once. Cause I just wanted to get that knowledge again.Michael: Yeah. When you reread it, like, for example, the, the Daily s. , do you feel like where was this? I didn't see this last year. Do you feel like that? Yeah. Simon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you not in concentration mode reading book right out and you'll different. But Steve reminding, like, especially with the daily Stoic, it's so easy to let whatever the current.Storm is to distract you, but I think it's good to go back to those sort of classic philosophies. Michael: Yeah, nice man. You need to start a book club and we'll join and, you know, kinda get your suggestions, but Awesome. Simon, I truly appreciate you coming on. If anybody has any questions or concerns or they just wanna reach out to you, how can they Simon: find you?Um, So Instagram's probably the best place. My Instagram handles at Dr. Simon Char. And then Yeah, that's probably it. Really just, just send me a D on Instagram and normally on there uh, a little bit too much. Awesome. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, and Simon, thank you for being with us.It was a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Cheers.‍

Minal Sampat and I have a weekly newsletter called Weekly Hacks. It's for pediatric dentists and pediatric practice owners only, and we share one effective growth hack every week to achieve big wins. no fluff, no spam, just your weekly dose of what you need to grow. Subscribe here to get this week's hack in your inbox! https://mailchi.mp/9d2a4644fd31/the-pediatric-dental-marketing-newsletter‍‍Hey guys! In this week's Monday Morning Marketing for dental practice owners, we provide tips on creating effective videos for your website. Rather than stressing over a perfect script, simply record a casual conversation with a team member or utilize an AI tool like Chat GPT to create a script. It's important to have three key videos on your homepage: a banner video showcasing your practice, a personalized video introducing the dentist, and a testimonial video from a happy patient. Additionally, creating short video series answering commonly searched questions can establish your practice as a trusted authority and attract potential patients to your website.‍To get the scoop on these tips and more, don't miss this episode with Minal!‍You can reach out to Minal Sampat here:Website: https://minalsampat.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/minalsampatllc/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RealTalkWithMinalSampat‍Other Mentions and Links:The Pediatric Dental Marketing Course EnrollmentNetflixHuluHBOChat GPT‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Min, also talk to us about pediatric dental marketing. How can we utilize this? Or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us to attract new patients? Minal: Well, with pediatric, one of the best things to do is to show off your practice culture. Cuz let's face it, you have the most fun practice culture and you can have fun and you don't have to worry about thinking, is this too childish?Guess what? It's totally okay for you to be right. So one of the things that you wanna show off, especially in the world we live today, because our parents with young children are usually in the Gen X generation, right? Mm-hmm. And the millennial generation. So we grew up with videos and we grew up with Instagram reels and Facebook and all that stuff.So we are very in tune to social media, yes. But we are also very in tune. Looking you up and seeing who you are as a practice. Because if I want my child to come to your practice, and I know that I, myself as a parent, am afraid of going to the dentist, yeah, you are a dentist, that's great, but I really want to make sure my child's gonna be okay and have a good time at their dental appointment.So one of the best ways to do that is through videos. Now, let's say you have videos. I want you to kind of, you know, all of our listeners right now, um, do this in a way that makes sense. So, according to Google, most of the people, so over 60% of the people would rather watch online videos than television, which again makes sense cuz we have our phone on our hand and, you know, when do we watch TV?Late at night. I'm a millennial. I'm in my thirties, I'm in my mid thirties and I haven't had cable since like 2008, 2009. Like, I don't, like, I just go to Netflix or I just like go to Hulu or HB or whatever. And watch my show, right? So this means that they are watching these videos. So this is the first thing you're going to do if you don't have this already on your homepage of your website, you need to have a minimum of three videos.The first video is going to be a banner video. So a banner video is going to, something fun. Maybe it's a fun video of you going through the office. Maybe it's a fun video of the team having a good time. Maybe patients high fiv. You want a banner video, something that as soon as they land on their website, they're gonna be like, Ooh, this seems fun, or This is great.You wanna capture their attention. The second video that you want to have is a video of the doctor, talking about themselves and the practice. Now, I know that some of the doctors, you're always thinking, oh no, I do not wanna do video at all. I don't like it. I don't like to, I don't know what to say on it.I freeze when I get up there. I get it. I a hundred. Get it. I understand. So this is what you do. You get an I. So you just have a conversation. Get somebody on your team. If you're uncomfortable with video, get somebody on your team and have them ask questions if you want to do this by yourself. I just had this conversation with a five location pediatric dentist yesterday, and he's like, I hate video.Oh my God, what am I gonna do? So here's a quick tip. Go to Chad g p t, like, I'm not even joking. Go to chat G p t and in the chat g p t put on a prompt and say, give me a script for a pediatric dentist to have on the welcome script for the homepage, and it'll give you the script.and then you can say, give me prompts on how to act on the video. It'll tell you, get close to the video. Now move out. Hold the little thing with a toothbrush. Do this. It'll actually plan out your entire. So you don't even have to worry about it. Use AI to help you if you need to. I mean, we just did this entire thing yesterday and this dentist who hates video, he is a pediatric dentist.He has five locations and he got three different scripts from Chad, g p t as we were talking about it. And now he's gonna record the video today cuz he knows what to say. And clearly if you have somebody who can interview in your practice even better, then it's just a natural conversation. You don't have to worry about a script or anything like that.You just talk about why you, why is it that you do this, and where you went to school and um, you know, what do you love about your day, right? So you could do that. So second video has to be with a dentist. The third video has to be a testimonial video. So somebody else has to say how amazing your practice is, So if you have these three Cs of videos on your homepage, that's where you're going to start. Mm-hmm. Now the other stuff you're going to start doing is, once again, you can go to your Google, uh, you can go to your website company and if they're doing SEO for you, ask them and say, what are the questions that are being searched online from parents?So you're going to, you know, and you could do this, Google actually gives us information for free. So you can go into the town and see what questions are being asked. So let's say the question's being asked, what happens if a baby tooth comes out? Or, uh, you know, when should I take my kid to a pediatric dentist?Or, what is, is, you know, is fluoride good or bad for children? Or all of those questions that you usually get. Make many q and a series videos with them, and now have your website company. Take those q and a series videos and add it to your YouTube channel. Create a YouTube channel and then have your website company do YouTube seo.So this means when somebody asks that question, your video will pop up. And as we all know, we go and ask anything on Google and there are always these YouTubes pop up. Mm-hmm. And we click on the one, and now they're listening to you and watch new. Right Now you take those same videos, you crop them, make them vertical, all that good stuff, and you make them into Instagram reels.You download those videos and then you make them into TikTok. You see where I'm going with this? Mm-hmm. You can take any one of this stuff and repurpose it in multi different ways. So I hope that this helps you with all the video. Michael: I like that. So the three videos, we want to have banner, video, video for the doctor, and the frequently asked kind of questions, where do I go for this?When it comes to like Google, where we find out where the questions are at, Minal: just ask your SEO Michael: complain. Okay. Okay. So Minal: like the website. And if you want, and if you want to, and if you want to go back to Chad g p t, just simply go to chat g p t and say, what are some of the questions that parents are asking about pediatric dental health or about, uh, their kid's teeth?And see what Chad g p t says. Now, Chad, g p t does not have all the answers clearly. you know, it is something AI is working through, its way through this. So not everything is. Truthful and relevant just yet. So that's why I said if you are working with the s e O company, they can go to the Google search console and they can provide you the queries.Google calls them queries, um, that they're receiving, um, so that you can base your content with this. How often should we Michael: be doing these videos, like refreshing them, make it so we make them, and that's it. And then we have the questions, and then we distribute that all out. Now we're. Right. We finished distributing.Do we repurpose it? Do we do it again? Or what do we, how do we do that? A hundred Minal: percent. This completely depends on your. Comfort level with videos. Like if you hate doing videos, I'm not going to be like, do videos every week cuz you're gonna hate me then. And you are gonna not love the videos either. And it's gonna show that you don't love doing this videos.I don't want that to happen. If you love doing videos, then yeah, do them all the time. Do them every week, right? Create new videos realistically for social media because videos are so popular and not like live videos and long videos, videos. Less than 30 seconds are really popular. Instagram reels, seven seconds, right, is where you wanna land with TikTok and Instagram reels.People usually make a decision if they wanna watch a video within three seconds when they're on social media. So if you have videos on social media, um, they have to be shorter. If you have videos on your website, I wouldn't recommend more than a minute, There's too many dings and pings and notifications coming our way to do that.So absolutely, uh, you can take care of that. And if you have any questions, you know, reach out to me. I can give you like a list of videos and stuff, but if you go to my Instagram, you will see pediatric dental real ideas, like it's actually in there. so you have all this content and information available.Michael: Yeah, that's kind of tough making like a seven minute or seven second, you know what I mean? If it's inform. Um, Minal: not really. If you think about it, it kind of forces you to share the information. I mean, you just, if you're thinking about like a seven second, like TikTok or Instagram video, You just need a hook on the top that says something like what are, what are ceilings?And then you can just have you pointing at different things and you tell us what seals are or you know, what is baby baby tu decay? You could ask that as a question and you could, you know, kind of point around or do something. So it's actually easy cuz you are not really talking, talking all the time, and it also keeps it easier for you because you can quickly go, what are dental ceilings where they are, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you just keep it simple and easy. It takes a little bit of time and effort. Comfortable with it, and to have fun with it. But once you're on it and once you have the ideas, it becomes a lot easier.Michael: How often at all do you see like the procrastination for this when it comes to a practice, when they're like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm making the videos, I just gotta set it up and I'm thinking of ideas and it, they're, you kind of feel it, you're like, you're just giving me excuses now, kind of thing. You're not making it happen, so how can we like eliminate that?Minal: You have to set time for it. Just like everything. You know, if it's everybody's job, it's nobody's job. If it's not on the calendar, it's not going to happen. If it's more like, oh yeah, we have a lunch thing happening tomorrow, so we'll do it. Okay, well, yes. Then put it down in your lunch thing, in the part of your agenda.We are all together at the lunch meeting. We are going to use 15 minutes to record some videos or do some, you know, fun high fives or do a quick dance or uh, answer a quick question, whatever it is, but it has to be on the calendar. And it can be in a calendar. That's like an afterthought. It can't be like, oh, we had a cancellation, so we'll do it when we have cancellations.Well, it's an afterthought, so now we are waiting for a cancellation to happen for you to do this instead. It has to be a part of your schedule, of your calendar, and if it's like that, it will make it happen. I always think about it with the gym, right? Like going to the gym or working out. We all know we have to.We all know we should be doing it, but if it's not on our calendar, and if we don't have that hour booked to work out, something is always going to come along. That's more important. I'm putting this in quotation mark for all the listeners. That's more important than working out. I know. I Trust me. I know.So, Michael: yeah. Okay. Gotcha. So put it on the calendar. Who should be in charge of this? If you had. Pick someone. Let's just say Manal. I'm hiring you to beyond my team, who's in charge of this? Minal: Somebody who wants, first of all, likes videos and also likes technology or uses technology. Um, that's pretty much it. So that could be anybody.It could be somebody you hire. Maybe you have a niece, a nephew, a friend, son, or daughter who's young. You know, I have practices that have teenagers. Their own teen kids are doing videos for them. I have practices that have hired college kids. I have practices that have team members doing it. What I don't want you to do is get somebody who absolutely hates technology or does not like technology, or is not on Instagram, or is not on Facebook, or not on TikTok, or whatever platform you wanna be on, and then tell them to do.That it's not going to happen cuz they simply don't know the platform and it's something they organically don't like. That's why they are not active on social media. So I would have a very honest conversation with them and say, Hey, we wanna do these videos, we wanna get our practice culture out there.who here would love to do that? You will get additional pay for it. Don't make it a part of like, okay, you just do it cuz no, again, it can be an afterthought. You will get additional pay for it. Uh, and you will get time to work on it. So who wants to. And then see, you know, who are those people who wants to do it?Because if they know the technology then it's easy ideas, content. Again, I'm a social media coach, and this is what I do and it becomes a lot easier. And I have had, you know, sessions when I'm coaching practices where the team members are like super excited and thrilled to do it and like I come in and they're like on it and they're like, oh my God, when we tried this and this is what happened and we did this, and then.I shouldn't say, but I will say it. Then. I literally spent two hours last week showing a team member how to forward an email Uhhuh. And, uh, that's their social media person. And you can understand the conversation I have with the doctor after I spent two hours teaching somebody how to forward an email and said, we need to change our social media ambassador because I, you know, you can't be paying me money.To do that. Mm-hmm. Cause that's not gonna Michael: work. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a good way to, okay. No, I, I get you. I get you. Awesome. Real quick, last question. Well, I wanted to ask you, when it comes to paying that, you said like, I'll give you extra. How much do you recommend. Minal: Depends on how much you wanna pay them.Um, there are practices they, and right now team members are hard to come by, so you also want to make sure you're not overflowing their workload already. So depending, I mean, social media managers charge, you can pay them anywhere between $18 an hours to. 30, 35. It depends on how good they're and what they're doing.So depending on what your bonus structure is, maybe you make it a part of their bonus system. Maybe you make it a part of their, uh, pay system. Cuz again, I don't know how much you're paying them for their actual job. Maybe it's assisting hygiene front desk. so just depending on what they are. But pretty much anywhere it ranges anywhere between $18 an hours and up.And also depends on where you are in the country because some states have higher prices, uh, higher wages than other. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome, awesome. Manal, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her in the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or there's two ways we can reach out to Manal and myself for more advice on and more tips.There's a newsletter, right, that we have that is fan fantastic. It's in the show notes below. We're gonna put a link to it. It's gonna be the first link in the show notes below, and at the same time second. If you really want more, much more in depth and you want to talk with us one-on-one, uh, meaning like monthly, where can they go for them at all?Minal: pediatric Dental Marketing course. Michael: Yep. Yep. The Pediatric Dental Marketing Course guys, that's gonna be open for enrollment in May, so that's next. And if you're a part of the newsletter, then you'll, you'll know exactly when it's open and you'll get access first and much, much more information on that.So, uh, I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes below, so you can go check that out. But also, min, thank you so much for being with us and, um, where can people reach out to you directly? Minal: Um, Minal samad.com is my website, which is M i n a l s A M P A T. Find me on Instagram again. Same name, Minal Samad.Find me on Facebook. Save your name. Um, just Google me. It's, I'm easy to find. But minal samad.com is the website. Michael: All right. Thank you with being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thank you for having.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍Guest: Angelica SetoPractice Name: Seto Family DentistryCheck out Angelica's Media:‍Instagram: @seto_family_dentistryTikTok: @setofamilydentistryFacebook‍Other Mentions and Links:Atomic Habits - James ClearWhy We Sleep - Matthew WalkerAulani Disney ResortWells FargoDisney+CEREC - Chairside Economical Restoration of Esthetic CeramicTDM Instagram: @thedentalmarketerYelpIsoliteAmy Murray - The Dental Practice Management AgencyDAT - Dental Admission Test‍‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Having income from an acquisition allowed her to go 100% fee for service on her new startup.Even though business consultants are expensive, a good one will bring you even more income than their cost!Don't be afraid to ask for help in the beginning. You don't have to wear all the hats in your practice.If you are firing a team member, it should be for the good of the team. Don't think of this as a personal attack!Leave room to have fun in morning huddles. Chatting and building team culture can be just as important as the day's plan.Don't beat around the bush when letting a team member go. Start with “I'm letting you go” and then follow up with the reasons.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Na Angelica, how's it going? I'm doing well. How are I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking if you don't want me asking, where are you located? Angelica: my practice is located in Denver, Michael: Colorado. Oh, man. how is it like that?Angelica: It's uh, pretty cold, but it was nice to escape the winter of last week on vacation. . It dropped down to negative four degrees while we Michael: were gone. Right. So it's, is it snowing right now over there? It's Angelica: not snowing right now. but we do get snow on and off again, during the Winter Monks. Hey, Michael: real quick, how long have you been open for your practice?Oh, Angelica: this practice I opened in August of 20. Michael: Oh, okay. So it's been about, cuz I. I thought for some reason you might've just opened and you took a vacation. I'm like, man, you're doing fantastic. You get it, you get life like . Where'd you go on vacation? Angelica: We went to Hawaii. Michael: Nice. Then what'd you guys do over there?Angelica: we went to the Disney resort called Elani in Oahu. And we spent time with our daughter who's 15 months old. her name's Nora and my in-laws, my brother-in-law. So it was just a nice family Michael: vacation. , how was that opening up a practice and then having a child? Oh, Angelica: that was tough, . Cause my husband and I actually had trouble getting pregnant, so we, had to do I V F mm-hmm.So when I was building my practice, I was going through egg retrieval and all the hor hormone injections. So that was wild just trying to, Stay nor somewhat normal while building a practice and, and being on all those hormones. Michael: Yeah. Did you ever feel like. Maybe I'm gonna take a pause right now with one or the other, you know what I mean, or no?Angelica: So actually I owned two practices. I purchased a practice I had been working at, since June of 2019, and I purchased that practice. In January of 2020, I was running two practices and then the shutdown happened. I was trying to get pregnant, and it was too much. I just hit a breaking point December.of, 2021. I had just had my daughter. I had a pretty traumatic delivery and I, I couldn't do it anymore. And so I sold my practice within 24 hours, my second practice. and it life has been good since it, it's all about balance. , Michael: yeah. No, yeah. What, can we dive into that a little bit? Like so you had two practice.And you just sold one or you sold both of them? I sold one. The second one. Why'd you sell that one? Angelica: I acquired that practice. the dentist I acquired, well the dentist passed away unexpectedly. it was very, tragic event. And, was working with a couple of his friends colleagues of ours who.trying to help his, wife or widow, uh, get rid of the practice. Mm-hmm. . And so they purchased the practice for me, because I couldn't get another loan after getting a startup loan. and they're, older dentists and so they helped me quite a bit. I learned a lot from them. they were great mentors.And they practiced further down south. So I purchased the practice and anytime I had questions, I would email or call them, and they would help me out quite a bit. and it was great because the practice was producing quite a bit and it was helping to pay the bills for my fee for service startup.so I was funneling money from one practice into another to make ends meet, and that's really why I was able to start out 100% fee for service. I've never accepted insurance at my startup practice. and it was because I was fortunate enough to have met. These people, who helped me purchase a secondary practice while I was building and who taught me quite a bit about the business of dentistry and, some clinical, and gave me quite a few clinical tips as well.Cause I was a fairly new dentist and owning two practices at once was, was a lot to bite off so Michael: soon. so the, the fee for service startup was the one in 20. Yes. Okay. And then like couple months or a year later you acquired the second practice? Angelica: no. So the January, January before, so January of 2020 is when I purchased the secondary practice.my startup opened in August of 2020. Oh, okay. So just eight months later, I was actually supposed to open, much earlier around the time I purchased a secondary practice, I was supposed to open my, my startup, but as you know, covid hit everything shut down. It was really difficult to get materials during that time.and it delayed my opening quite a bit, which was unfortunate because I had bills that were starting to come in for my. Startup and I wasn't even able to practice or open my doors because of the shutdown. Mm-hmm. . Uh, And so having that secondary practice really, helped me out during that time. Michael: So, real quick, how much was your, the loan process when it came to your startup?Was that what, what bank did you go with? I went with Wells Fargo. Okay. How much was a loan for? Angelica: it was four 500. Michael: 500. Okay. What was the terms on that, do you remember? Angelica: I had to start, and so that was, I had to start paying, there was a certain time after construction started that I had to start paying that loan back and because of Covid that time was, longer than I was planning for it to be, and that's why I had to start paying the loan back Michael: early.Gotcha. Okay. So 500. . And then did you get another loan for the acquisition or Angelica: So, the dentist who passed away, his, his one of his best friends, the power of attorney for the practice. He, bought the practice for me and I was just making payments toward, for like, to him personally. So we had a personal, like, personally financed loan.Michael: How did, can I ask, how much was the. Angelica: I bought it for 220,000. Michael: Okay, so he bought it. He was a partner or Angelica: he just stepped in as a power of attorney? when the car accident happened, to help his wife get rid of the practice, because we knew pretty early on that, the dentist who ended up passing away wasn't going to practice again.Michael: Yeah. Okay, man. So then he ended up purchasing it for you and then you just made payments. Was there like a, a schedule or was it just like on a handshake, like, Hey, we're gonna, oh, I got you. Angelica: It was cut a little bit of both. Uh, He was very laid back. He purchased it. Everything was in my name. he put a lot of trust into me, and I barely knew him.He's one of the nicest people that I now know very Michael: well. Man. after this, gimme his. No, I'm, I wanna be friends with him. . Ok. He's great. No, that's good. That's, that's, that's interesting. Okay. So then that happened, you decided to go fee for service right? From that point on, I'm assuming it wasn't an easy startup process.Angelica: No, it was not. It was a very slow burn in the beginning. But that allowed me to work at both locations. I was working full-time, so five days a week, and splitting my time between both practices. so I was producing at a. , you know, my secondary practice, which was producing really well, I was running three columns.It was a very busy in-network, partially Medicaid practice. Mm-hmm. . So I was running around like crazy at that practice. We were just, our schedule was packed and then I'd come to my, my fever service startup and it was very slow. . Yeah. so I would alternate days, at both Michael: Gotcha. So how much were you producing in the second practice or the one that you.The one Angelica: I acquired. Oh. when I acquired it, the first year was right at a million. Michael: Okay. And so you would use that to help you with the startup for fee for service? Yes. Gotcha. Okay. And then that's when you were like, this is too much. When you started going through, birth, Angelica: so when I got pregnant, You know, hire and going through Covid, hiring new employees.I had two associates at one time. it just became too stressful, managing that many people. I think my biggest downfall was one, COVID. and two, I didn't ask for help soon enough. I wish I would've asked for more support. instead of trying to handle everything on my. What Michael: do you mean?Like, gimme more detail on that. Angelica: so I was doing all the interviewing and hiring and managing of both practices. and you know, I, I love dentistry and I, I feel like I'm a great dentist, but I, I am not a very, I'm not the best, I wasn't the best businesswoman and I. , wear my heart on my sleeve. And so, you know, I was interviewing these people and I felt like they would be a good fit, but I wasn't really going through the right motions to find the right people, the right, who would fit into my practice.So I ended up hiring a practice or a business, consultant. And I, I love this woman. She has helped me out so much and has, Saved me more than once with hiring, filling voids taking so much off of my plate. I think, being a new mom and owning two practices, And just trying to do it, you know, keep I'm, I'm a workaholic.I love, I stay at work late. I um, I'm going to the practices on the, over the weekends and it was just, it was too much. I was burning the candle at both ends. And so when Amy, my, my business consultant came into the picture, she really took so much off my plate. I didn't meet any, Candidates for any job position until they had gone through Amy first and she vetted them and she would have them take a personality test and I thought that was really cool.She would do a disc assessment with every, candidate and see if they would mesh with me and with other members of my team before even introducing them to me or anyone else in. and that saved a lot of time and, and heartache for me. . Michael: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Well, who's the business consultant? Angelica: her name's Amy Murray.She works for, the Dental Practice Management Agency. They have a very long name. . Michael: I know. Yeah. Dental Practice Management Agency. Why do you think you didn't ask for help at the beginning? Like is it cuz like you just didn't know what you didn't know or more like it's my baby's like I. Angelica: I think it was more, You know, personally, I, I wanted to do it all and, and say that I did it myself. I'm a hard worker. I, I worked two jobs when I was an undergrad. I babysat when I was in dental school, and I've always been a hard worker. And, and so I felt like I, I should be able to make this work on my own. I think the reason I waited so long was because business consultants aren't cheap.and I. Bad spending so much money, you know, spending all the money to, for a startup. all the equipment I was purchasing and materials, you know, I was start, money was dwindling and so I was like, I don't have any money to put towards a business consultant, but I wish I had done it sooner because I mean, she has doubled my, production for my secondary.within a year. So, if I had just hired her on sooner, who knows where I would be now. Michael: Okay. Gotcha. So right, right now you don't have the other practice though, right? The acquisition? No. Angelica: No. Okay. So I just have my fee for Michael: service practice. Gotcha. Okay. So then, I mean, hey, you're, you're a hard worker.We know you're a hard worker, , so where did that come from to wanna say like, Hey, I did. Angelica: well, so my father's an immigrant, from Mexico and he, he came into the States, and he had a degree. When he was living in, in Mexico, he had a degree there, but it, when he came to the states in his early twenties, he wasn't able to use that degree here.And so he had to go to school again. he had to learn English. He only spoke Spanish. So growing up we spoke English primarily in our household. , so that my father could learn enough English to go to school and get a job. he worked as a cook in a kitchen while going to school and eventually became an optical engineer.And he has, I think three patents under his name, now, and he has just accomplished so much and started out with nothing to his name, no money. He didn't speak English when he came here, and he just built this beautiful. Wife, like he is the walking, living American dream. And you know, I just, I witnessed that growing up and, you know, if he can do it, I should be able to do it cuz I've had a lot more support, than he had growing up and financially and just a lot more.it was, I had a lot more opportunities than he did. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Do you feel more pressure cuz of that? Angelica: I think so. ? Michael: Yeah. Why? Angelica: I just wanna make him proud. I know that he's worked hard to give us, a life, a good life. worked hard to help put us through school and, I want to show him that I appreciate that and that I can put the work in.and make Michael: him proud. Do you think he's not proud? Oh Angelica: no. My dad's very proud. . Michael: Yeah. So, okay. Yeah, so he's proud. I mean, like, you know what? He's proud, Angelica: but I just can't stop. I have to keep going. . Michael: I get you. I get you. Yeah, no, I think Angelica: it's the dentist and all of us, you know, we're also competitive because we've just always had to prove ourselves with, you know, first d a t scores and then taking the boards.And then I feel like in dental school we're all fighting for, you know, those top positions. And so I feel like our entire. education and the start of our careers is just very competitive. So we're kind of bred to be like that too, in a, in a way. Mm-hmm. . Michael: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You wanna kind of like, continue, continue, continue, right Angelica: to, yeah, you already achieved this level, like what's next?Mm-hmm. and have to keep, I feel like I just have to keep going. . Michael: Do you feel like that right now? Like, cuz I mean, technically you've had two practices. You sold one, right? Mm-hmm. now a startup. Mm-hmm. . What was the whole reason for your startup? Angelica: so I was an associate for a little under three months, when I graduated and moved to Denver.I didn't really like how things were being done at the practice that I was at, but I really had no say. I had to show up and do my work and leave. And there were other procedures, other, things I was interested in, but I couldn't do those things cause I wasn't an owner. and this person wasn't really open to part partnership and so I decided well, , you know, I, I know what I wanna do.I know what type, what level of care I wanna provide my patients. so why not just go out on my own and make it happen that way I can make those big decisions. Michael: What were the level of procedures you wanted to do that they didn't want Angelica: you to do? So, I'm very interested with sleep and airway. I am an airway dentist and I love cosmetics, so I love doing big veneer cases.And at this practice, I, I was only being given what the other dentist didn't want to do. And so I felt like I couldn't get those big procedures. I, you know, I never got the big veneer cases or cosmetic cases that. Michael: Gotcha. Looking back, if you found a practice that would let you do this, or if they told you, yeah, you can do this, would you still have opened up your own practice?Angelica: I think I, I still would have opened up my own practice. Eventually, probably not as fast. But I eventually would've wanted my own, my own practice. Michael: For what reason? To just be like, this is my home, or this is for what? Angelica: because it's something that I created and something that I worked hard to make.And I've never been open to working for, I've never worked for a corporation. I don't really like that fast paced environment. I like to move at a slower pace, give patients more time with me, and yeah, and I like to buy the equipment. I, I'm a big tech junkie. I love my, my new equipment, so I wanna be able to buy what I want, when I want it and work with the people that I like working with.And yeah, I don't, I just don't feel like you can do that as an associate. Michael: Yeah. Too many like having to asks and things like that instead of just going to straight to it Right. Kind of thing. Gotcha. Okay. Okay, so then you opened up your practice, your startup. I asked that mainly because I don't know if you're like, I want more free time, or I want to spend time with, you know, your fam, or I don't know, which I'm sure you do, right?Like everybody wants that, but Oh yeah. Do you feel, what are some things that have come unexpectedly for you in the startup process where you're like, oh man, like I missed just that paycheck and then going home and then that's it, kind of thing. Angelica: Oh gosh. I mean, right now, right now. I have an amazing team.I truly feel like they're my family. Like we all work together really well and do, would do anything for each other. But it, it took a long time to get there. And I definitely had some team members in the past who made me just want to quit dentistry altogether. just like get rid of everything.. So I think finding the right team members and building that team, it takes a while. And but once you find the right people, it feels good. And, you know, this is why I went into dentistry. This is why I went into ownership, is to work alongside people who have the same passion that I do, and, they make coming to work enjoyable again.Michael: Yeah. What were those team members doing, or why did they make you want to give up? Angelica: They would either no call, no show um, oh really? They would call or they'd call the morning of and say, Hey, I can't make it in. I'm sick. Or I have this going on, and I'm pretty lenient with, with callins and people not coming.As long as you give me notice. As long as it's not too frequent, but this was happening, happening very frequently. And so a lot of ti I bought an isolate because I just, I had to be prepared to work by myself, and it was very stressful turning rooms over breaking out the isolate and just being in the room one-on-one with the patient and having to, if I forgot something, I'd have to run outta the operatory.It was just chaotic. , but it was difficult to find people and I know that a lot of my colleagues are still struggling with that. And it's stressful. So I think managing people and hiring employees is probably one of the hardest things for me right now. Mm-hmm. well was one of the hardest things for me.Michael: How do you wish you would've dealt with it sooner? Even with the fear of like, oh my God, I can't find people. Angelica: I wish I would've because it was difficult to find employees. So I felt like I let a lot of things go. I wish I would've set better boundaries earlier on.because I was afraid to lose employees even though they were not so great employees. I was scared to lose them cause I didn't want to be by myself. And so I felt like I was bending over backwards to keep these people happy just so that I would have somebody helping me in the practice some employees would ask for different hours or they didn't wanna work certain days or they wanted to do a late start. And allowing some people to do that and not others is not fair. And I wish I would've just put my foot down and and said, no, these are the hours I hired you for these hours.These are the hours I expect you to come in. Instead of saying, oh, I think we can make it work. And stressing out over trying to make it work for that one person. And that's just. an example of, of one instance. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Okay. Was it easy to let them go? Angelica: Oh you know, the first time I had to let someone go, I was sweating.My heart was racing. It was uh, really difficult. But after, you know, being an owner of two practices and going through covid and the high turnover rate it has gotten easier to let people go. Don't no longer serve a purpose in my office or in my life. And I don't do it often anymore. I, I mean, I haven't let someone go in a very long time.But when I do it, I know that. I'm doing it for the betterment of the team. You know, you don't wanna keep somebody on who is the cancer of the practice, right? And bring everyone else down. Also, you don't want to keep around somebody who. Is making you miserable, then you're bringing that home to your family and family is so important to me.And so I wanted to make sure that my workplace is a happy place and I left happy, and that way I'm not coming home and bringing all the negative feelings home with me, cuz that's not fair to my family. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. No, that's true. A hundred percent. How did you let them go? How did it improve from the moment you were like, Because I get you like Yeah.Sometimes you're, you, you're negotiating in your head. You're like, that's not that bad anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I can, I can handle that, you know? But how Angelica: the best advice someone gave me was you bring the person in and. , the first thing that comes out of my mouth is I'm letting you go for these reasons.And then you list those reasons, but you don't beat around the, like I used to just beat around the bush a little bit in the beginning and it made things a little awkward, but I've found that if. , I'm letting you go. And here are the reasons. As the first thing out of my mouth, then they know already. And you give the reasons and it sets the tone.You keep it short. So there's a beginning, middle, and end, and you don't what's the word? You don't dilly dolly, you know? Mm-hmm. just very straight into the point. That's what they. You know, they don't want to sit around and listen to how they were so great, but you have to let them go and that sort of mess, just, I have to let you go.And these are the reasons why. Michael: Wow. Okay. That's a, that takes some, you know what I mean? Like some guts right there to just be like, I'm gonna let you go and here's why. Cuz in my mind, hell, if you were to tell me that, you're like, Hey, I'm gonna let, I need you to do this, Michael. And I'm like, okay, but what if they get angry?and they don't even let me have my time to explain why, you know what I mean? They're just like, what if I just tell them immediately? Was that any of your fears or no? Angelica: Oh yeah. And, you know, I was just prepared if, if things got emotional I was just prepared to, or if there were any, if there was any, Arguing.Then I was just prepared to say, you know, this conversation is over. If you have any additional questions, you can email me at my email address. But I need the keys and your sensors and I'll walk you out. We'll gather your things and I'll walk you out. Michael: Was there ever any arguing or angry or No.Or ? Angelica: No just keeping it short and being very straightforward has been helpful. It doesn't really give time for people to get emotional. You know, the only negative thing I've had happen was, you know, after the fact after they were able to think about it. I got some mean messages from one person, but that's about it.Michael: Like Text messages, you mean? Yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha. You gotcha. Yeah, after that, after the fact that if it was a text message, I'd be like, I, you know what I mean? Yeah. It was, yeah. All said and done. As long as you're not, no wonder I let you go, kind of thing. Right. You know? Yeah. Just kind of, okay. But like that.So if you could real quick, break it down for me. What's the beginning, middle, and end of this process for you? . Angelica: So the beginning is, I'm going to let you go. The middle is these are the reasons why. And typically when I let somebody go, they have already been write-ups filed. And so I'll have those write-ups on the desk.And then after I give him the reasons, I ask them, what questions do you have? Typically they don't have any questions. And then I ask them, so that's all the middle. The end is, okay, I need your keys, your sensor. Let's walk through the office and gather your things, and I'll walk you out the back door and that's the end.Michael: I like that. Okay, nice. Awesome. So would it be okay right now if we kind of dived into your startup a little bit? The business side of it? Sure. Okay. So you said the build out was, or how much your loan was? 500, right? Yep. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And then how much was your build out? Angelica: Oh, so. , my buildout. It's hard. I, I don't really have like the complete breakdown.It's been, it's been a little bit, but I think my buildout was around three 80 or Michael: so. Okay. Three 80. Mm-hmm. . How was that process? Was it pretty smooth? Not so smooth, really hard.Angelica: You know, my contractor was great.we had done all the planning for my build out in 2019. We had all the permits in place. and then Covid hit. My contractor was pretty busy cuz he is a popular contractor in this area. And so I felt like in the beginning it was kind of slow because he was working on so many different projects.But then the city of Denver shut down and they weren't issuing any new permits. And so some of the oth these other projects were. Permanently put on hold and they really couldn't move forward with anything cuz the permits weren't in place. Whereas with my practice, my project everything was in place and ready to go.And in my head I knew, you know, everything shut down, but my construction ramped up and I was like, oh no. Like before I was like, let's, let's speed it up, you know, this is moving really slow. And then when it started to speed up really fast, I was like, oh my gosh, like, let's slow down . Cause things were shut down right now.So that was stressful. How fast everything started to move because we had already done a lot of the leg work. In preparation for the build. Another thing that was really difficult was materials. All the materials that I picked out from my practice. I think I picked out maybe 10 different tiles from my bathroom floor and five different sinks for my operatories because I would pick one outfit was aesthetically pleasing to me.And then it was no longer available because manufacturing was down. Hmm. . And so, that was really stressful. Like everything in my practice, I feel like every single material had to be replaced so many different times because it, we just couldn't get our hands on the materials. Michael: Wow, okay. So that's the part that was holding it back?Yes. Okay. Okay. And then you officially opened when? Angelica: August of 20. Michael: Okay. And when you, in the process of like, about to open, because it was in March, right? March when it hit like really hard in the US Covid. Angelica: Yes. I closed my prac, my secondary practice on March 17th, and I reopened on May 5th. Okay. So like I have those dates burned in two lineMichael: So any, any of that time were you ever kind of. A little scared or just be like, Hey, you know what, just kidding with the startup part. I don't know if I wanna do this anymore. Or were, were you just like, no, we're gonna do it. We're gonna go through all this and, Angelica: oh, I had come so far. I was, I was ready to keep going and I wanted it to be finished.I wanted to open and start practicing in my new practice. Michael: Hmm. Okay. That's good. That's good. Really, really great mindset. So then, what type of practice do you have? I know you mentioned it was, Angelica: So we do airway, we do, we're, I'm a general dentist. Um, So we do a lot of your basic restorations. But we really, my team and I really love working on cosmetic cases and airway.Okay, cool. That's nice. My hygienist is uh, myofunctional therapist as Michael: well. Oh, really? On purpose? Mm-hmm. , that's what you were looking for on. Angelica: Well, she came in as a hygienist and she had a passion for airway and wanted to learn more. So I sent her to finish an airway training course.So she became certified as a myofunctional Michael: Nice. That's really nice. Okay, so then how many employees do you have? Angelica: I have not including myself. Four employees. Michael: Okay. And then they are, The roles. Angelica: I have an office manager. I have a hygienist slash myofunctional therapist, and then my two dental assistants are both cross trained for front desk and being in the back with me.Michael: Okay. And they all were part of the process of your business consultant hiring them? Angelica: They were all hired by my business consultant, Amy. Michael: Right? Yeah. Okay, nice. So that really did stream. Oh Angelica: my gosh. We we love doing, I don't, you can't see my office, right? I took down the balloons, but it was just my birthday and they surprised me by decorating my office.And we, and they're just very sweet and thoughtful and we all do that sort of stuff for each other. I've never worked with a team that has, that is so thoughtful. Michael: Yeah, that's beautiful. That's really, really nice. Okay, so then total production and collection, what does that look like? So like last month?Angelica: Last month? Well I was on vacation yeah. So then the month, but, but, but we still did, well we were at 70,000. Oh, for the Michael: month. Okay. And then, so how many ops do you have? Angelica: I know I have four working operatories. I started when I built my practice. I plumbed for four. I built out two. Because I knew it was gonna be a very slow start with my fee for service startup.Just last week I had the final two operatories equipped. Michael: Okay. And then how many days Angelica: are you open? Four days. Monday through Thursday. Michael: The hours are Angelica: are what? 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM Okay. So it's Michael: pretty Angelica: good. Our morning huddle starts. We everyone is ready for the morning huddle at 6:45 AM. Michael: Okay. What does your morning huddle consist of?Angelica: So my office manager starts the morning huddle. And there's typically three people who speak during the morning huddle. My office manager, my hygienist, and then one of my dental assistants. And they each fill out a day sheet outlining new patients. So my office manager starts with the numbers for the month we're currently scheduled at.you know, $50,000 of production for this month. Here are the opportunities for this week. We have openings today for an emergency here. We could do a bigger procedure in a couple of days, so think about that. We need to fill this hole. And then she goes over the production, what we're scheduled for, for the day.And of course, you know, just going over where we can increase that production, how we can increase it. , then it moves on to my hygienist. My hygienist will say, we have, you know, today we had six new patients, which is great. So she goes through the new patients and we talk about how we're going to make that appointment special for them.We have a relaxation menu, so they always get offered that, and we make sure that we have all of that stuff laid out and ready when they enter the operatory. We'll go over. Existing patients and if there are any medical alerts that we need to be aware of any outstanding treatment mm-hmm.and then it'll go to one of my dental assistants. They'll go over lab cases that we have in if there are any emergencies, new patients in their column. Any outstanding treatment that could be scheduled that hasn't been scheduled. So that we can take advantage of getting that scheduled. Michael: Okay. And that all roughly takes about 15 minutes.Yep. Angelica: Well, and uh, then if I have any questions, I'll, I'll ask some questions. If things were scheduled a little wonky, I'll ask why someone's coming in for a consult, whoever spoke to them on the phone. I'll ask, well, what was discussed? And then there's, it's fun. Is then we all kind of chit chat at the end and there's a lot of laughter.Patients come in and they're like, it sounds like you're having so much fun back there. . Mm-hmm. . And sometimes we'll have like some we'll take turns buying coffee for each other. So, we have our Starbucks order taped up on the refrigerator. So like, if somebody wants to treat the team to coffee, they know what we all like.And so if someone brought coffee in, we'll sit around and drink coffee for a few minutes. Eat bagels or donuts, whatever we have. So it's just fun because we really bond during that time. Michael: Yeah, that's nice. I like that. That's really good. Like having the. Coffee thing, Angelica: you know? Yeah. Like, cause it got to the point where people were like, oh, I wanna treat everyone to coffee.What, what do y'all want? And then we, they'd have to wait for everyone to text back and we all pretty much order the same thing every time. So we decided to write it out and we all have a, like, a picture of it on our phone. So if we just wanna surprise the, you know, the office of coffee will, we'll do Michael: that.I like that. That's really, really nice. Okay. And then real quick, how many patients are you getting? Angelica: We are getting about, I think our average is around 40. Michael: Okay. 30 to 40, yeah. That's good. Yeah. And then what are you doing for advertising and marketing? So, Angelica: my business coach really doesn't like me putting much money into marketing.Uh, we actually get, a lot of our new patients come from internal referrals, which is a big one for us. Google and Yelp. We have you know, five stars on Google and Yelp. We have really great reviews from some of our best patients. , there's a local newspaper that I have an add out and I pay about 180 a month for that ad.And really, we don't get many new patients from that, but I continue to support them because they're local. And we have some patients who work for the local newspaper and they come in and we chit chat. So I just keep that there just to support them. Other than that, I've done nothing up until last month.I started Google Ads because I was noticing that my reviews weren't showing up. So I had people saying, oh, did you see my review? I wrote you a nice review, and I said, oh, I don't think I saw that. It's not popping up. And then they would show me on their phone that they wrote me a review. And it would show on their Google account, but it wasn't showing on our pro, on our business profile.So I went through all, you know, I researched why, why would our reviews not be showing up? And I went through and, you know, there was nothing that would've made that happen. You know, we were a verified business. They just for some reason weren't posting our reviews. Mm-hmm. . And one of my colleagues said, well, why don't you pay for a Google ad and then you'll start seeing.Those reviews pop up. I paid for a Google ad and that same day my review started showing, are you serious? It had been months like it had been maybe three months since we saw a review. . And so that was kind of crazy to me. You know, I don't know how I feel about it. It seems like extortion to a certain Michael: Yeah.dirty Google. What? Yeah. Angelica: So, I mean, maybe it's not related in my mind. It seems like it is, but we are now getting reviews and we're paying for Google Ads. Michael: How much are you paying for Google ads? You don't mind me Angelica: I got a special, it's like a holiday special where you. $500 and you got two A, you got to post two ads.So that's what we did. So we've only invested $500 in in that. Michael: Yeah, man. But I didn't know that. I never knew that, that that's, yeah, I wouldn't, that sounds kind of, it sounds kinda like Yelp if you think about it. You know what I mean? Angelica: Yes, exactly. Hmm. So, but I know a lot of my colleagues have been struggling with their reviews not showing up and I mean, maybe there is a correlation between the two.Who knows? Michael: Yeah. No. Okay. I get you. And then what system would you say is unique in your practice right now that you created or maybe you have adopted where you're like, it's either our handoff from front to back, or it's our new patient? Angelica: So something that my business coach helped me put together was the new patient welcome, making them feel comfortable in the practice because I don't know if you've seen pictures of my practice, but it's very homey.I didn't want it to be a sterile or very clinical setting. I wanted it to feel like I have a fireplace in my waiting room and like a stack of logs and I've decorated my office almost like a. . And so when you walk in, it doesn't have that dental office feel. And I think that's the biggest compliment that we get from patients is they just love how it has a relaxed feel.It already puts them at ease when they walk in. But the one thing that we do that I really love is we give our new patients a tour of the practice. So when Reza, my hygienist, or. Margarita My dental assistants bring a patient back. As they're walking them back, they'll say, well, here's our restroom.And they'll show them the restroom. And this is our really cool C B C T. It takes a 3D image of your face. And Dr. CTO will go into more detail on that here in a sec. But we'll, we'll be returning to this room to take an image later. Here is our sterilization room and as they're walking them back, you know, I have a very open concept design but everything is very clean looking, very aesthetically pleasing.And so it's just nice as they're walking them back to show them where everything is and then they walk 'em into the operatory. And now the patient knows like, if I have to use the restroom, I don't have to ask anyone. I know where it is. It makes them more comfort. Michael: I like that you give 'em like an office tour.They make them, Hey, here's the rest of your home kind of thing. Yeah. Angelica: You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. , I like that. You can place your things on, on this stand here and you can hang your coat here and let me take your purse for you and they'll hang that up for them. And they've already looked at our relaxation menu.You, and so we'll have. You know, if they want essential oils an eye mask. We have Disney Plus we have TVs mounted above the all the chairs and we have Disney Plus on the screens. And so I'll ask them if they wanna watch something specific. We have noise canceling headphones. So yeah, we just trying to make them feel comfortable.Michael: Yeah, that'd be nice. How cool would it be like to be the first Disney sponsor? Practice . It's my dream. It's everything I've ever wanted. , . Okay, cool. So then one of the last questions I wanna ask you is throughout this process, I guess, from the moment you sold your prac, your second practice, or your fir, your first one, your acquisition to, to now, today, what's been some of your biggest or your biggest struggle or fail or pitfall Angelica: since selling my second practice?Mm. You know, well, of, of course we've already talked about managing people and, and hiring employees. I'd say couple, there are two things that come to mind. Mm-hmm. for me. One is implementing new procedures, like when I started with airway, just getting that into the practice and setting up a system for that. It's really stressful. You know, training everyone on the, on airway, especially when you have a, when I had a higher rate of turnover training people to take those special images that I need intraoral photos and measurements, that was really stressful.Retraining every single person who came into my office to do that. So implementing something new. And then we just invested in cic, so we have the prime scan, the prime mill, and the prime print. . And so going through all that training and making sure we were doing everything right anytime there's something new, it just gets a little bit more stressful.And then I think it's all around people managing people, right? So the second thing would be patient management. As a new dentist, when I came out of dental school, I felt like I let people walk all over me. I was scared to stand up for what I. Was right. And, you know, my confidence level wasn't the best because I was so new.So I think building that confidence, setting boundaries, even with patients not letting them because some people I feel like have been struggling with , you know, post covid, the post covid era. Mm-hmm. . Um, There are a lot of people struggling with personal issues and coming to the dentist. It's, it's no fun sometimes.And so they show the worst parts of themselves when they're anxious or scared. some people can come off quite mean or rude to a team member or even to me sometimes, and not letting that happen standing up for myself. That has. The biggest struggle, but something that I've really mastered this the past couple of years is building that confidence and standing up for myself and setting those boundaries.You get really good at setting boundaries when you have when you have children, because you'll do anything for your kid. Right. And it's sad because I was struggling and I didn't , I didn't treat myself very nicely. The things I was saying to myself weren't very good. And so I actually started going to therapy after around the time I sold my practice because I just, I needed help.I was struggling personally and going to a therapist, she really helped me to set those boundaries. And she said, you wouldn't treat your kid this way. You're beating yourself up over something a patient told you or something negative a patient said about you. And you're just, you're saying all these mean hurtful things about yourself in your head.You would never say that to your kid. And I'm like, you're right. I, I love my daughter. I would never treat her that way. And so then she was like, well, why would you treat yourself that way? And I just sat back, I was like, you're right. I need to be nicer to myself. I need to have more grace. Um, I need to set boundaries and don't let people get you down.I mean, , you do dentistry for a reason. You went to dental school for a reason. You're highly qualified, you know what's best in the dental realm. So, you know, stand up for yourself Michael: a little bit. Mm-hmm. , do you feel like you kind of slipped back into that sometimes? Angelica: Very rarely now. But when I first started out, oh yeah, Someone would say, Make a comment like, oh, you're taking so long on this filling. And I'm like, oh my gosh, did another dentist do it like so much faster than I did? Was it more comfortable? Like, am I a bad dentist? ? Yeah. And I, my, I would just go into a downward spiral. But I don't let myself do that anymore.Michael: Yeah, no, I get you a hundred percent. I remember one person told us, like, if you get on a train right to a Destin, And then you realize like the intercom guy or whatever is like, we're going here and you're like, crap, I'm supposed to be on the other train. Would you just say, I'm gonna go all the way to the very end of this destination, get there and then get off?Or what would you do? I'm asking what would you. Angelica: Yeah, I would change directions and, and reroute myself, Michael: right? Like on the next exit, wherever it's I'

Hey there, Michael Arias here, and on this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode, we're continuing the essential topic - patient retention. This episode is brought to you by the one and only Sandy Pardue, of Classic Practice, and our podcast Dental Drill Bits. Did you know that up to 50% of patients leave practices over the course of five years? That's a staggering number, but there are steps you can take to combat it. One of the simplest is to ask your patients how their last visit was and really listen to their answers. It's important to never give up on retaining patients, even if they've been inactive for years. With around 170,000 dentists in the US, it's crucial to stand apart by showing how much you appreciate your patients being there. Most importantly, don't forget to always keep an eye on your attrition numbers! It's hard to fix what we don't track, so these metrics are especially important for the health of your practice.Dive into my conversation with Sandy Pardue to learn more on patient retention!‍You can reach out to Sandy Pardue here:Classic Practice WebsiteDental Gumbo Facebook Group‍Other Mentions and Links:Dental Drill Bits PodcastADA - American Dental Association4 Seasons Hotels and ResortsThe Ritz-Carlton‍‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey, what's up Sandy? Sandy: Michael? Hey, I, I was just, uh, looking at our reviews on iTunes. Michael: Nice. Yeah. Guys, don't forget, if you can press pause right now. Go leave us a review on iTunes. Let us know how we're. And then come back and listen in. Cuz in this episode we're gonna be talking about something super important.I'm sure you're looking at the title Why Patients Lead. Sandy: Yep, yep, yep. This is a deep topic, . Okay. This the deep topic and for the listeners, and they've heard us talk about patient retention, which is gross. You know, we've talked about that. And, and for the new listeners, I mean, they'll, you just have to know this number if you say like, okay.Like 170,000 dentists. You hear these different reports, 166,000, 170,000. But we all know, cause you've worked in these practices that get at least 10 new patients a month. Right? Some of them are getting 20, 30, 40, 50, a hundred new patients a month. So I'm gonna say we know that at least 1.6 million people are changing dentists every single month in the United States of America Now.That being said, I saw another interesting statistic then from the American Dental Association that said that 25% to 50% of patients in any given practice are lost over a five year period. Whoa. That's crazy. Okay. I believe that, actually believe that could be worse now than it than ever. Because of so much of their automation, we have less personal contact.Mm-hmm. with people now because we're all living so fast and we count on text and that kind of thing. You need those personal, the personal contact for sure. But you know, when you look at people in general, and we already know that they don't love coming to the dentist. But why do they leave? And, and here's the thing.Most practices are not tracking this, and that's scary to me. Mm-hmm. , so they don't have any idea how many people are not coming back. And then the whole recall process is terrible in most practices. So what you need to do, I like to keep an attrition monitor. An attrition monitor. Now this could be as simple as having an Excel.Where your front office, every time they learn that somebody is left the practice, they put the name in and uh, their family members and why they're leaving. If they say they changed dentists because of insurance or they changed dentists and you don't know why, or maybe they moved out of town, maybe they died.So you've got all this information, okay, about that patient, and you can start to see who's leading. And I think that's very interesting to track. But the fact is that most practices don't do that. They don't really look close into their recall process to see that, okay, maybe in the beginning of October they had 300 people that needed a cleaning.They never go back in November and pull that same report and see that they still have 180 people that are due to come. In October, they did not come in. That's a huge problem, but why? Okay, why? Why is this happening? Number one, no one's watching. Number two, no one's following up. That is huge. And number three, nobody's actually tracking it, so, Those are the things that the practices need to implement versus, here's the thing, and I was explaining this to a friend of ours yesterday who was looking for a local dentist and he's been going to somebody and he is not having a success with some work that he, major work that he was having done and this particular practice he's been going to, I see a lot of TV ads and things and I'm, so that tells me, and I happen to know they're getting about 150 new patients a month and they've been getting 150 new patients a month for 10.So where are the people going? They haven't had to hire more hygienist, right? This is telling me that people are coming in and they're not staying. So practices that are listening, you need to be paying attention to this. But one thing you can do, this'll help you get some of them back and find out while they're leaving.Now you guys, you've heard me talk a lot about the reactivation program that I, I love, and that's like sending. Postcards with return service address on there. So you get back the, to see who moved without ever having to call them. You, they call you, you get back about 20% without a phone call. It's a great project to do, but uh, you could also do a fall insurance letter.That's a great thing to do right now. These are all activities to get people, but you've gotta communicate and you've gotta find. Why they're leaving. Okay. When you do this type of activity that I'm about to describe, you'll learn a lot about your practice. So what you wanna do is. Somebody that's a good communicator in your practice.If it's been around and they know some of these patients, that's even better. You wanna get them on the phone, they start calling and you let 'em know we're updating our patient records and we notice you haven't been in for a while. And then zip it up, let them talk now. And uh, they see what they say.Well, yeah, I know I need to get in. Or they say, well, I've changed Dennis, or I'm never coming back there. And that's when you. That pointed question. If I asked you a question, how was your last visit here? And then listen and see what you can learn. See what you can learn. Now, if somebody immediately says, put me in your inactive files, okay, , and sometimes they do that and sometimes they might just hang up, but you can't be scared of them.You just keep doing, and that's where your scheduler is gonna try to discover any problems, because here's the. Patients can act crazy, but most of them are not gonna be crazy. And then sometimes when we meet these practices that are constantly firing patients, they are firing people less than, right? Well, I promise you that many people aren't crazy when you've got the practice two doors down, that never fires anybody.That tells you that the people inside the practice are the ones running them off. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Michael: Yeah, that does, that makes a lot of sense. And I like that. So we're asking them almost like as a post-op kind of thing, right. Once they're home or something, we ask them, how was your last visit here?Or once they're in the practice, we're like, Hey, the visit before this, how was that? Yeah. Sandy: Or, or say it like, can I ask you a question? I'll always like to say that first. Mm-hmm. and, and with a high pitch at the end. Can I ask you a question? And wait, how was your last visit here? That just opens up a conversation and that's when they come out with all kinds of things.Like they left me in that chair and nobody tam to check on me. I was so thirsty. I was . You know, people get upset about things, right? They get quoted the wrong fees, the fee changes. Nobody told them in advance. Thought they were gonna see Susan, but uh, April was the hygienist. You know, they get, there's all these reasons because people are really sensitive about their mouths.Okay. I'm just gonna tell you, people are super sensitive about their mouths. They are. And so, and people are just, they expect good customer service, especially people. West High expectations, more successful people. You know, they're used to going to the Four Seasons or the Ritz Carlton, and you want these kind of patients.You know why they have money and they have rich friends, and so you wanna cater to these people. You don't wanna make them mad, and so you've gotta make sure we talk a lot about the tone of the office. Well, you've gotta make sure that your team is supporting you and your view. And they're happy to be there and they're wearing smiles cuz all of these things contribute to patients leaving.They have a lot to do with your attrition. So you've got your team supporting you and complimenting you. A practice should be growing, not shrinking. So every year you should be growing and need, you need to hire more people. It's because you're retaining and growing these people that say they're never coming back.You need to let them know the person that's calling, well, I'm sorry. We're not gonna be seeing you here again. We sure did enjoy having you as a patient. You know, a lot of times people when they hear something like that, they may be in between of leaving the practice. Maybe they were going to leave and then they got this phone call and they heard something like, And they, they never found that other dentist, so they will go ahead and appoint.You can, you should never give up on your patients. I had somebody I saw in Dentaltown recently where he said he was gonna inactivate everybody that hadn't been in 18 months. Well, my gut got real tight. Okay. I'm just like, ugh. Because I know how hard it is to get those new patients and 18 months goes by really fast.Mm-hmm. , I went 15 months without getting my teeth cleaned. Last time I did Sandy Cardew, I did , and so it just made everything. I'm glad my dentist didn't inactivate me. That's insane. Of course, I know how to take care of my. And, you know, I have a little scaler at home, so I believe me, I'm, I'm okay. But you, you know, people leave most of the time cause of the service they received or they felt like it wasn't fair or they didn't like they were treat the way they were treated.That's what they always remember how they were treated. So that one phone call to follow up on these people that hadn't been. Instead of saying, hi, this is Sandy from Dr. Gutes, I was calling to set up an appointment. You know you're gonna be more personable with them. Letting them know, with missed seeing you, doctor asked me to call.And you do it in such a kind voice. You don't, it's not just, I'm following them, schedule an appointment to you or send a text like I got yesterday. It's time for your cleaning. I didn't even say what dental office it was from . I was like, who is. Was it from my husband or me? I didn't, you know, and then I saw the text, and by now I've gotten about 25, 30 other texts and I forgot all about it until I was just talking about it here, , Michael: until right now.I was just talking about, yeah, exactly. So then the, the three points keep, no one's watching, no one's following up, no one's tracking. No one's watching is we have to keep an attrition monitor. Right? Yeah. And that. What is that in our practice management Sandy: software or No, you need to create your own Excel document, Michael: and that is you're literally looking at who needs to be reactivated.You're following up with the Sandy: calls and stuff. The attrition monitor are the people that have left the practice. Those are the people. You're gonna only enter the people that are not coming back, so, You have pulled a report from your dental software, you see who hasn't been in for a long time. Go back three years, go back five years, you have a smaller practice, go back five years.Then what happens is as you're making these calls, then you find out someone's not coming back. They're entered on that sheet. So it could be that they moved out of town. They changed dentists. They changed dentists because of insurance. I wanna put that in a separate category. So let's see, what did I say?Change dentists, say Joseph of insurance and moved out of town and deceased. So, and then I like to send a letter to every one of them. If they're deceased, they get a sympathy, the family gets a sympathy. So some type of communication goes to them. Even if they changed Dennis, it's because of insurance. I want them to know that they're welcome to come back to the practice.And so I'm calling these people, it's like I'm, I'm calling all these people that haven't been in, and I'm not calling them for a cleaning. I'm calling them because doctor asked me to call. Cuz we miss seeing them in the practice and I'm continuing this conversation letting them know how much we've enjoyed seeing them on a regular basis.You know, ideally we're gonna reactivate them. If they say, oh, well you know what, I'm not coming back. Or, you know, my grandson is a dentist. Now, you know, or you are gonna tell you all these things. Or if you don't really know the reason why, it's okay to say, well, in order to complete our clinical records, may I ask why you wish to become inactive for the reason, and then they'll tell.And then you make sure that you put that in, in the computer file. And if it's like a, it's, it's an upset. You know, a lot of times when you're talk to these people, you realize they're upset about something, some misunderstanding or, or bad communication somewhere. You've gotta get that handled. You've gotta report it to the doctor and get it handled cuz they're gonna go around and tell everybody.Michael: Mm-hmm. . Okay. Okay. And then that's how you keep it, the monitoring, right? The attrition you have to follow up with. every Sandy: week. To me it should be going ongoing. Like every day she's making a few calls and she's putting on the list, and then doctor as or the manager says, oh, can I see our attrition list? How are we doing?Oh my goodness, look at this. We learned out of those calls that she made in a week that we lost 25 patients. It's just data. Okay? Running a business, you've gotta have data. Stats are everything. I love them. They, they give you a picture of everything going on, and so that. If you have a lot of people leaving the practice, you need to know.And if you're not keeping up with it, you don't really know it, or you just know a number and you don't know who it was. So I like to communicate to the people that leave because they do come back. I've seen that first in, and they'll come back. Michael: Gotcha. So then what do we do in this scenario when they're like, oh, you know what?Yeah, I didn't like that. Uh, I didn't like that this person did that. Or did something happen? That's why I left. I, I'm finding another person. Right. Is. Are we trying to win them back or is it more like, oh my Sandy: goodness, always, because if you don't, they're going to go talk around town for the next 10 years about you.It's always better to have friends. It's always better to have really good relationships in life. Um, you know, it's never good to have somebody that's not happy with your service. And, you know, people, like, if you think about, you know, why, like, why would I stay at my dental office? Well, you know, I kinda like 'em.I like how I feel when I go in there. Everybody's really friendly and I feel comfortable because I'd been there for a long time. And I feel like that work has lasted, that, that dental work. I mean, it, that's what people say, things like that. Right? Or, you know, they love it when they get like, oh, you know, I get my birthday cards from my dentist.He's the first one that sends me a birthday card every single month. And people like that, they like it. Or, or you can hear 'em talking like, oh, my dentist, this is, this is what my husband's friend told me yesterday. I like this, Dennis. He's got a lot of good UpToDate technology. Hmm. He said, but I, I just don't like what he's doing with my den.And I'm like, okay. So this is a guy that my husband has known for about 50 years that he worked with about 50 years ago. And every year they have a phone conversation. And that was yesterday. And I overheard some of this conversation. So he has an upper denture and he w, he was in an accident years ago and he lost some of his teeth.So he is trying to, he want some implants, he's trying to do some work with to his mouth and he doesn't like what's happening. So he calls us and starts telling us about all this You. And that's what they do. He said, you know what, one thing I do like too is they gave me his, an emergency number after I had my surgery there.And so that was the thing that impressed him. So he was impressed that the technology, he was impressed that he got that doctor said, look, if you have any problems, give me, um, you know, give me a call at this number. And so you're giving them kind of like you're impressing them and they have like a reason to, to stay.And they're, they're looking if they found your practice and they're gonna stay. If you have, number one, a good care system, number two, you are communicating with them for that recall process, right? You're reaching out, you're in the calling, you're texting, you're sending cards, whatever it is you're doing, you're not being idle.And I'm telling. The way they feel when they come in there, in that atmosphere and the technology and how easy it is to get an appointment. Those are the things that they are gonna like. Oh, and, and look, we had a friend that told us this at dinner one night. It's like every time I go to the dentist, I'm telling you, I, it's like he's mad and he's just assistant, he's like throwing the instruments down and I don't know what's going on.Look, those are the little things that make a difference in the practice. Okay? So you can't, you can't do that. You cannot do that. And, and the way the team are interacting with each other. Yeah. They also, the things that's gonna have them stay to your practice is because, you know, if you come across. That you're rushed being impatient or you know, you seem like you're mad at your employees, they're mad at them, or you're not telling them what's going on with their mouth.The last hygienist I saw was so good and she, she knew I was in the dental industry, but I think she probably does this with all the patients. So she was like telling me constantly, you know, what she was gonna be doing and um, yeah. And if they feel like. Overcharging or focusing on money, that'll be a turnoff for sure.I think that if the practice is giving them more reasons to stay, you're, they're gonna be fine. Being aware of who's coming, leaving. Okay. Who's staying? You've gotta, you gotta take care of your patients. . Michael: Yeah, I like that. Like it's, as long as we don't see it, like you said, idly by. Right. Like, give them more reasons to stay than to leave.Right. I mean, maybe mistakes will happen. The more can compensate for that, right? Yeah. Um, and then monitor them. Any final words for this Sandy: episode? The only other thing I wanna add, Michael, is I would like for everybody to start watching that attrition number and know how many patients they're retaining.That is the most important statistic that you can keep. You're always looking for new patients. Let's close the back door. Let's keep some of those patients as you currently have. Michael: Gotcha. Awesome. So guys, if you want to talk about this episode, come on the podcast or submit any questions. Then you can do so by joining the Facebook group Dental Gumbo.And at the same time, don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us out a ton. So please go ahead and do that. And thank you guys so much for tuning in, and we'll talk to you in the next Sandy: episode. Yeah, Rebe, have fun. Reactivating those patients.‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Katherine Eitel BeltBusiness Name: LionSpeakCheck out Katherine's Media:‍LionSpeak Communication Training OptionsLionSpeak Calibration Retreat‍‍Other Mentions and Links:The 5AM Club: Own Your Morning. Elevate Your Life.Wizard of OzInvisalignBlue Cross Blue Shield InsuranceLions Peak Winery‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Communication is essential to building a strong team and patient relationships.Don't forget to invest in team culture! It's not all about how much you're paying employees. They want purpose, support, and acknowledgment as well.Always lead with what your practice DOES offer rather than what it DOESN'T. This is especially true when handling those tricky questions involving insurance.Don't be afraid of the price question. If a potential patient is asking about price, it means they are looking to buy!When on the phone with potential patients, be sure to establish a relationship before asking for details.If you aren't the cheapest practice in town, you will have to sell the value of your practice rather than the price point.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Katherine, how's it. Katherine: It's going great. So glad to be with you this morning. No, Michael: thank you for being on. We truly, truly appreciate it. I know we're not far from each other. You're experiencing We just had a ton of rain, huh?Katherine: We did, but it's made everything, uh, gorgeous and green and the snowcap mountains. And I heard we're gonna have a super bloom because of the rain on the Michael: flowers. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's gonna be beautiful here in southern California. , but Awesome, Catherine. So can you tell us a little bit about your past, your present?How'd you get to where you are? Katherine: Yeah, so I come from dentistry. I started in college as a chairside dental assistant and eventually worked my way up to the front office area in the administration area of a practice and managed a large practice. eventually my career led me into practice management consulting for several decades, and then about 10 years ago.I narrowed my focus to communication skills, coaching only, and primarily still within dentistry though, we do some corporate work and some work, uh, in, I would call it discretionary healthcare fields, but primarily dentistry. And, we like to describe our company. My company is Lion Speak and the overarching umbrella is communications coaching.But under that umbrella, . We basically deliver that in three different sectors. So one sector we describe as patient facing or customer facing communications. So we talk and teach a lot on telephone skills and converting new patient phone calls, especially difficult ones. And then also case presentation, financial discussion with patients.We have a lot of practices transition off of insurance plans and all the communication that's needed for that. Our second lane is described. Team facing communications. So, team culture, leadership. We turn a lot of managers on how to have something we call courageous conversations in a really productive way.I'm writing a book on that right now, and we're getting ready, to release an on-demand video training series on that in April. . And then our third lane is described as audience facing communication. So we have a train the speaker and a train the trainer program there. and that's for anybody who wants to speak from the stage or even for practice owners that have large practices that may need to address their company or a board or anything like that, uh, on a regular basis.Then we help them with their presentation skills. So, Where I've come from and, and where we are today. Michael: Okay, nice. So let's rewind a little bit. You said you started as a chairside dental assistant, Uhhuh, and then you worked your way up to the. , why, why didn't you just stick to, you know what I mean? Like, okay, you know, I'm gonna do more clinical and stuff like that.Yeah, Katherine: well, I think, I think I got there a, the way a lot of administrators got there, I was sort of thrown into it. Uh, our, the administrator office manager that we had was in a car accident and actually didn't come back to the practice for over a year. So we were all just sort of pitching in, you know, pinch hitting for our team and it stuck, I guess I was.Had some talent or was good at it and good on the phone, good with patients. And so I ended up, they ended up hiring another assistant and I ended up staying up front, and eventually moving on to manage a practice. and so I love both. I loved them equally. I loved chairside, with patients. I loved dentistry and providing it, but I also loved, the management of a team and, the systems, you know, management that was required from an administrator's position.Okay. Wonderful. Michael: Yeah. And then why did you narrow your focus to just communications? Katherine: Ah, interesting question. So I think something happens when you hit your fifties . I think you're looking at your, you know, yardstick of your life and one half's looking a little shorter than the other half. Mm-hmm. . and I think, you I looked at my business, it was a very successful prac, uh, dental practice consulting business.but there was a sliver that I enjoyed more than the rest. it's not that I don't understand how to set goals and track metrics or read a p and l. Uh, obviously I own my own business and, and helped many, but, or that I don't understand insurance coding and things like that. But that was never, it never lit me up.what did light me up was helping dental professionals step into their potential by communicating at a much higher level. And so it was a bit of a jump off the cliff. I mean, I had people say, you know, I don't think, I don't think dentists or really small businesses are gonna pay for communications coaching only outside.Practice management and I wasn't sure they would either, but uh, turns out 10 years later, here we are and turns out they will. So, I think I have a knack for it. It was definitely, I wanted to spend the rest of my career working on the topics that I most enjoy teaching, and also with clients that I most enjoy working with.So it was a bit of a narrowing of my focus. Michael: That's nice. I like that. Yeah, you're like inching down, you know what I mean? And it's good. Yeah. Inching down. Exactly. Right. I like it. So out of the, the three lanes that you mentioned, which do you see people returning and kind of saying like, we need this. I would assume it's team because, you know, teams are changing all the time, but like, where do you see where it's never ending?All Katherine: three. all three. Okay. So patient facing, obviously we have new people coming on board. We have, you know, older, personnel that's been with us a long time or been in the industry a long time that sometimes needs a refresher. so we see. ongoing there. We have clients returning year after year, after year.Mm-hmm. , but certainly for team facing. We do something called, um, what in our leadership coaching we do, something called a calibration retreat. And many of our clients have us back year after year to facilitate that retreat. It's called a calibration retreat because it calibrates it's intention is to calibrate the team with the owner's future vision.At that moment, how they see the future and what they're trying to create from that vantage point. and also the standards, the cultural standards that they, that are important to them. And so our job is to make sure that the owner's crystal clear about that for themselves first. Mm-hmm. , and then articulates that very clearly to the team.And that we are able to facilitate a discussion at least once a year about, inviting people, which is a very d. Idea than demanding, inviting people to, cross the threshold into helping us achieve this vision and to align with these cultural standards. So there is no doubt right now given the shortage of employment that we're seeing sort of at a crisis level, we had clients that we've worked in different, maybe different areas that have come back, maybe post Covid.They were like, well, you know, culture, you know, it's important, but I don't know if I wanna, mm-hmm. And all of a sudden they're calling and going, okay, I get it. I can't, I can't keep people, I mean, they're going down the street for a few dollars more an hour because, , they feel there's, that the cultures are the same.Yeah. Or one is better than the other. And so I get now that it's more than just what I pay. Yeah. I have to create a work environment where people have clarity, where they have, they feel a part of something bigger and they feel supported. So, helping. Owners and managers and leadership create that environment is what we're all about.So you can imagine there's just like booming business in that lane. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, as, as practices have scaled with multi-location, lots of doctors, There's a point, sort of kind of a crossover point about five practices in, if their intention is to grow, and scale at about that juncture, we find that they need to create a middle layer of management and often of training, internal training.And so in our third lane, we're doing a very robust business right now in helping. Managers or, or dental personnel that gets, advanced or promoted into those, uh, training or management positions to learn how to coach their people. They often are really good at their job. It'd be a, someone gets promoted cuz they're a great hygienist or a great administrator, but when we promote them into a leadership position or a management position, even a team lead, they often fail because the skills you need to.Really great hygienist and team player are a little different than what you need to grow and coach your people. So we're doing a lot of work in that area to help these new managers learn those skills. So it's hard for me to pick a lane cuz we're busy in all of them. Yeah, Michael: no, that's good though. That's good.And I like how you mentioned on the other one where it's like you want to feel, you want your team to feel bigger than it. they want, they wanna feel a part of something bigger than, you know what I mean? What it is. I know a couple of hygienists, they're hygienists, Catherine Hygienists and dental assistants who left for like, oh, in and out, has way better structure and organization and I feel like I'm, I'm going somewhere with them, you know, or another, you know, it's so different industry, but they're doing that.So, I wanna ask you, I wanna dive into two specific ones. Okay. Ones that we, uh, discuss all the time. Here is one of 'em. Let's, let's dive into that. One is telephone skills and converting difficult New patient phone. . Okay. How can we, what are some pointers, instructions that you can give us for this?Katherine: Well, we're known as the unscripted communications coaching company because I dislike scripts very much. I don't think they work. I get why we invented them, very popular in the seventies and eighties, even into the nineties. Scripting was really popular. . And I remember my boss at one time hiring a consultant, and it was overall a really great experience, but I remember the day he plopped down a three ring binder full of scripts for everything we were supposed to do in the dental practice.And I remember reading some of those and thinking these were the Hokies things I ever read. Like I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't imagine th saying it that way through my personality and sounding mm-hmm. like normal and so, . I get why scripting came about though, because as a businesswoman, I definitely want to have consistency of service and consistency of brand and messaging in my company.Like I wouldn't want you to call and talk to Kelly and have a completely different experience and get completely different information than you might if you talked to Stacy, right? Mm-hmm. . I do. I do. I do think that the idea of scripting was to give us consistency for branding, for messaging, for all of that, and so I get.and I do think it's important, but I'm the kind of gal that says, why do I have to choose between consistency of message in my business and authenticity and connectivity with my patients. and my customers. Mm-hmm. . And so likewise, I don't want you to call and talk to Kelly and get a robotic. , like she's a robot.And then it's the same exact experience when you talk to Stacy. Mm-hmm. . So I want, I want their personalities to come through. I want you as a customer to think, I, I spoke to a human being who heard me and had a, developed a relationship with me and was present in this moment, not reading from a memorized script.So I'm the kind of girl who says, I don't wanna choose, I want both. And I think you can have both. And you do. With frameworks. Frameworks similar to scripting in that we require everyone to agree to that framework and we hold them accountable. We test them, we teach them, we train them, and we hold them accountable through ongoing coaching to that framework.But within the framework, they get to be who they are as long as they hit the points of the framework. We say if they're funny, we want 'em to be. . If they're kind and sweet and gracious, that's how they're wired, then let's be a big version of that. We teasingly say if they're direct, they just need to be careful.yes. But, but they get to be who they are and, I like that. I think patients respond well to that. It's how we train everyone, that we train on communication. If we're training a speaker on the stage to be a better speaker, we don't want them to sound like Catherine. , we want them to sound like the best version of them, their personality to come shining big through that stage performance.But we do want them to get the points across to the audience that they've agreed to speak on. You know, so they're, again, there's a framework, but within their framework we get to be who we are. So that's first. tips on telephone skills. So our framework is a simple four step Process for.almost every single new patient phone call that you could imagine. And there's really a top five. There's the patient that calls and asks the price of something, which is challenging. There's the patient that calls and asks for a checkup or a cleaning, you know, they're not really, they have no real urgent need.they just wanna stay current. Right? And so they call asking, usually the question is a checkup or a cleaning. The third one is, they have an emergency, they have some level of urgency of a toothache, or they have a broken tooth or something doesn't feel quite right. Or they have, you know, they want something whitened before their wedding.There's some sense of urgency. Mm-hmm. and some more immediate need. there is also a couple of other questions that come up. They're, they're not actually. A need, but they're the first question that gets asked. One of those is, are you on my plan? Now, that's not actually why they're calling. It's usually something else.It always is something else, but it's the first question that they ask, and it's what administrators are faced with. Answering, and that's easy to answer if you are a provider on the plan. It's a little more challenging if you're not, and lots and lots of practices struggle with that question. So those are the kinds of questions that we coach on.and so my t my quick tips, I mean, of course we, we take a lot longer than this interview to, to train people to be experts at this, but high level tips would be this. the first thing you have to accomplish is get in relationship with this caller. So what tends to happen is they'll say, hi, I was calling, I've got a a bit of a toothache, and I was wondering if the doctor could see me today.and what we hear we do, we do thousands of mystery shopper calls a year for our clients. And I'd love to talk about how we do that a little differently, in a, in a bit. But we, but we, we listen to a ton of calls every year and more often than you might think. It's, it's actually very frequent and very, uh, often that we hear someone will answer that question with a another question of, what insurance do you?So here they've said, I've got a tooth that's bothering me. I'd like to know if I could be seen today. And they say, okay, well do you have insurance? What insurance do you have? So what happens with that response? It's not coming from a mean person. It's coming from a person who's got three lines on hold and two people are checking out and they got a lot going on.Mm-hmm. . And they're trying to be efficient, but what, how it sounds to a patient is all you care about is getting paid. and so what we first teach. Before you ever answer any question, say, well, I'm really glad you called. I mean, again, in your own words, but I'm really glad you called us. Welcome to our practice.My name is Catherine, and what was your name, right? Let's get on a first name basis. . So the first thing I think is how can I get their name? How can I welcome them? And then I will usually, if they don't offer, I was referred by this person, or I found you on the internet, or however. So if they say, I was, my neighbor said I should call you.I say, oh, well who's your neighbor? that's so awesome of her to refer you. And how long have you guys. Next to each other. You know, just I, if, if someone says, you know, I just moved to the area and my someone at work said I should call you. I say, well, where'd you move from? How long have you been here?How do you like it so far? I mean, there's a thousand questions you could ask. That's the no scripting part. Mm-hmm. , ask whatever feels natural to you and to the conversation, but don't skip the principle of walking through the door and getting in relationship with that person. So one way to get in relationship is to walk through any open door They.Now that's gonna be really annoying to a patient that's in pain. So if a patient that is in pain and they express that, or even any high urgency, . We don't wanna say, well gosh, how long have you worked there? You know, and it's annoying. So what we wanna connect with is empathy. We wanna say, before we ever answer their question, we wanna say, well, I'm, I'm really sorry to hear that you've been in some discomfort.I'd love to learn a little bit more about that and how we can get you seen quickly and get you feeling better soon. So I just want you to know, I, I get it and I'm, and I'm really sorry to hear that, you know, just some empathy that says, I heard you and I actually care about it. it's less than 30 seconds.It's not a long time, but do not skip this step. So that would be my first tip. Second tip is get in control of the phone call. And I'll tell you, Michael, if your listeners took only one thing away from this, Discussion about telephone skills. Mm-hmm. and even maybe communications in general. If they took this next point away, they'd have the keys to the kingdom if they would remember that.Whoever, in any conversation, Like in this interview, in any conversation, the person that's asking the questions is actually controlling the direction of the conversation. So in our exchange today, you're asking the majority of the questions. You're steering what we're gonna talk about. You're steering the direction of our conversation, which is as it should be, it's your podcast.But when people call a dental, it's usually the patient that's holding that baton of control because they say, are you on my plan? How much do you charge for a crown? can I get my teeth cleaned? You know, can I be seen today? so they've got the control and instead of thinking, my job is to answer all their question.An administrator would be better served to say, my job is to gently reach through that phone, connect with them personally, gently grab that baton of control and bring it back over here where I can steer and control the conversation. That's the biggest mistake most people make in our mystery calls is they don't get control of the call early.And how you do it is you answer their question with another question. So I might say, if they said, you know, how much do you charge? whitening. I might say. Well, I'm so glad you called. We do whitening. A lot of whitening, really good at it. So welcome to our practice. Uh, my name's Catherine and what was your name, right?I connect with them somehow. Then one, once I felt like I've connected, then I say, so I'm happy to answer your question about the whitening. I just wanna make sure I give you the right information, and schedule the right appointment. So, would you mind if I ask you a few more questions or a couple of.now who's got the baton of control, they feel like they're gonna get their question answered. So they're not resistant in any way. But I have not answered their question. I've actually just reached through the phone and brought the control over to me. Mm-hmm. , and now I get to steer this with a line of questioning that will help me determine, really the only two things that an administrator ever needs to determine on a new patient call.One is, which of the two appointments we have to offer is best a comp. or a limited exam, which of those is the best for this patient? And it is often different than what they asked for. Lots of people asked for a cleaning, but what they really want is to have a tooth checked. Lots of people asked to have a tooth checked, and what they would be more than willing to do is have all their teeth checked.So, I mean, that's not always the case, but it often is the case. So when someone says, I was wondering if I could schedule a cleaning, I think in my mind, well, we'll see. We'll see. Depends on how you answer my questions. Mm-hmm. , I'm not just gonna schedule you for a new patient exam and cleaning until I've taken you through a line of questioning and my, all my questioning is about urgency.That's, it's all about urgency because the only thing that drives them, or should drive them to a limited exam that I'm gonna shove into the middle of a full schedule should be urgency. And if it isn't urgent, then I'm gonna try to direct them and steer them to a comprehensive exam. that's the one thing I have to determine.The second thing I have to determine with my line of questioning is, what else do they care about? What are other hot buttons? is it the discomfort? do they also have some money concerns or financial concerns? Do they have, maybe they're concerned about getting some, you know, disappointment but missing too much work.maybe they have an upcoming event. They want the work to be done before, so I'm trying to find out what else do they care about so that when I step into to my step number three in the framework, I can give back to them. The right appointment and why it's perfect for them. Options on times and dates, and then I'm also gonna promote the practice.back through the filter of what they said they cared about. So if I discerned that they cared about money, then I'm going to maybe mention, I'm so glad you found us because you mentioned that you were a little bit concerned about the cost of this treatment and, we have lots of patients that have expressed that concern and we are really exceptionally good at helping patients with a variety of.Financial options to afford the care that they need and want. So once you come in, we'll find out exactly what you need, and then the two of us will sit down and we'll look at a variety of options. And we almost always are able to help patients find something, that helps them afford the care that they want comfortably.So I look forward to that com. You know, so it's mm-hmm. , my, my feeling is that it's our. to promote the pr. It's not the patient's job to sell themselves on us. It's our job to sell them on us. And so once in step two, I've discovered what really matters to them and which appointment would be appropriate.Then in step three, I'm actually giving that to them, but I'm, but I'm stepping into actively promoting this practice through the filter of what I've discerned they care about. So, and then in step four, take care of the details. That's where we get insurance details. That's where we give them directions and that's where we reconfirm the appointment or get whatever, you know, whatever the details are.But one of the big mistakes, Michael, that administrators make without training, and I'm, I've made all of these mistakes, one of the mistakes we often make is we let the computer screen for a new patient account guide our. And the computer screen for a new patient account wants to know address and phone and email and insurance information.None of those help us with those two questions. What appointment is appropriate and what else do they care about that I can promote the practice to? So those questions, in my opinion, should be later in the call. Once we schedule an appointment, then all those things matter. But what does it matter what their address is or their email is?if I haven't even sold them on the practice and we don't have them scheduled for an appointment. So I, I wanna, my questions on step number two are geared toward discovering the level of urgency and what else do they care? What are their hot buttons so that I can manage that well in step three. So those are some tips that I think, if people could really focus on restructuring where they guide and how they guide a patient, they'd do so much better, in those phone calls. Michael: Wow. Okay. So these are the four major steps for this framework. And you mentioned you do mystery shopper calls, Uhhuh for your clients. How does that work?Like what were, how do you do. . Katherine: It's really kind of a scary proposition for most administrators if they're honest. . it's scary for anyone, you know, I'm a speaker and trainer and coach and, I've been invited to do some pretty big keynotes here in the next year or so. Mm-hmm. and, uh, they're bigger audiences than I'm used to addressing normally.And so I reached out for some additional coaching for that keynote and the first thing my coach said is, I want you, One of your next upcoming speeches, I want you to record it and I want you to watch it and self evaluate your, you know, your performance. And then I will do the same and we'll come together and talk about it.And it was painful. It was painful to listen to myself, to watch myself. It's very hard. But as a professional, . I wanna continue to grow. I wanna grow my income. I wanna grow my value, I wanna grow my performance. And so to do that, I've gotta have the courage to listen and watch myself. And so I would say to administrators or anyone, in the dental field, if you want to advance your career, if you wanna be paid top dollar, I mean, imagine being able to lay down at your next review, your next performance review, four or five mystery shopper calls that were perfectly score.and you've got tens across the board. I mean, those are the kinds of talents that, managers and leaders and owners are wanting. to pay for. So I like that. Um, one of the things I'll say about Mystery Shepherd calls is that we have some competition that I think does it very poorly.And because they have done it very poorly, it has turned a lot of people off to the idea as a whole. And I think we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think it's just been done poorly. So for example, We don't do any sneak attacks. If we're gonna do mystery sharper calls and we agree to do them and a client hires us, it's with the understanding that we will train first.We will help people to get better first, and we will show them the scorecard. We will train them against the scorecard so that they have some input, they have can, can ask their questions, get whatever. We're not trying to catch people doing. We're trying to help them get better and so no sneak attacks.The other thing is we don't use, we use normal people for the calls, asking normal questions. We're not trying again to trick people. We're trying to say, can we get you and help get you significantly better with the normal caller? So asking the normal questions that that patients ask. So, you know, we're not dragging people off the street to do this.We. , regular moms and dads or even have a couple of retired dentists that make calls for us, but they're asking normal questions and, and I think if we get good with those, then we've, you know, we've, we've scaled the mountain. so those are some of the things. The others, we never play these calls before, anybody without their permission.Hmm. So sometimes. Somebody says, I want my team to hear this call. I want 'em to hear how much noise they were making in the background while I was trying to handle this call and how that sounds on the phone. So sometimes they say, please do play it, but unless we get their permission, well, first of all, unless we get their written permission, we never even make the calls we want.Mm-hmm. , the individual's written permission over the next year to do these and to sit down with them and to go over the results and help them get better. with one exception. Of course, whoever hired us to do these, they get to listen to it. But other than that, we wouldn't play it before a department or a team or anyone else, unless we had that person's permission.Again, we're not interested in embarrassing or catching someone. We wanna build you up and make you say, that was one of the best things I ever did and it, and it helped my career. it's, it's important I think that we treat people the way we would wanna be treated. So if you're interested in advancing your career or you're interested in helping your people advance their careers, and convert more callers on the phone, I think teaching them well and then getting them a coach that can be their support person to, you know, hold them accountable to, to what we've agreed to is, is super, is super important.Yeah. Michael: What about Catherine, the type of, patients that. I a hundred percent agree. Like we, we do need to get control of the, I love that how you said, like, and that's a huge principle. Like what, okay, the one asking the questions is the person, you know what I mean? And then at the same time, you wanna show that empathy.Like, sure, who doesn't want, who doesn't love that? Who doesn't like you get it? You, you get that? I'm in pain, right? But what about those patient. Because I remember working in the front office and we would get a lot of the times where they're like, well, what does that matter? Like, it's almost like they were really short with me, where it's like, just, do you take it or do you not?That's all I need. Do you take it or do you not? And I'm, I kinda Katherine: wanna you insurance on Michael: insurance when, whether it comes with insurance or whether they're like, do you have an appointment right now, or no? Yes or no? Like, they were very short. So how do we, how do we deal with that? Like I feel like when that happened, everything went out the window that I Katherine: learned, you know?Well, it doesn't really, So, you know, if I were, I travel a lot because I speak a lot. Mm-hmm. . so if I, let's say I, I'm waiting for a plane. I bite down on something. Maybe I have a little popcorn or something. I bite down. I think maybe, Ooh, I think I, maybe I chipped that tooth, right? I'm on the Jet Way board in the plane.I call in office. If I say hi, look, my name's Catherine. I tell Belt, I live in Temecula. I'm actually boarding a plane. I just think I bit down on something. I think I might have chipped part of my tooth. It's not hurting. but I would like to get it checked when I return on Monday. and I can come anytime next week.I don't have insurance. I'll be paying cash. I just like to get something if I could, early afternoon next week, I can come any. , you pr pretty much have skipped over the four step process because I've given you every, I've given you. , my urgency where I am on the scale of urgency. It's not very urgent.I've already answered questions about how, how I'll be pain, what I expect when I can come, so you can, it would be silly to try to go back to step one and try to walk down this floor. Mm-hmm. , it's like I've catapulted. So it's really, you have to use your head about the framework. The framework is more for someone calls you have limited or no information.I wanna know how much you charge for a crown. if you answer that, it's like you're throwing some, you know, it's like you close your eyes and shoot the arrow and hope that you come anywhere near the target. But when someone, someone gives you enough information up front that the target's now clear, just shoot the target.Right. Yeah. Just, just take 'em there. Now I'll give you one exception and that is the question about insurance. And it's similar to the question about price. I contend nobody is sitting around on their sofas at night scratching their heads, wondering what the price of crowns are these days. That's not why they're calling.Yeah, they're calling because, and asking this question because there's, it's sort of like the Wizard of Oz. There's something behind the. , right? There's, there's this little thing behind the curtain of this big scary question that's actually really important. And so rather than address the big scary question, I wanna kind of be good enough to peel back that curtain and say, well, what's what's behind there?Because the truth is, unless you are the cheapest in town, if you are the cheapest in town and somebody is, somebody is, if you are, that question's not. , right? Mm-hmm. , if you're the cheapest crown in town, cheapest Invisalign. Cheapest whitening. Cheapest implant. you can answer that question they're not gonna find it any less.But if you're not the cheapest in town, then we won't win on answering that question. We will have to win in some other way. We'll have to win on value. And to do that, we've gotta get behind why are they calling, why are they asking this question in the first place? And if we can get behind that, and that's why I say, Honor the question.Say that I'm, I'm so glad you called us. I'd love to talk to you about that. I wanna make sure I give you the right information. So would you mind if I ask you a couple of questions and then of course, I'm gonna start with why. Why is it that you think you need, first of all, is this for you? And if it is, or whoever it's for.why do you think you need a crown? are you experiencing some discomfort? If they say yes, I'm gonna explore that, cuz I'm still trying to figure out am I gonna schedule them for a, an immediate exam mm-hmm. , you know, a limited exam or am I gonna get them into a comprehensive situation? I'm trying to decide now on the price question we teach to.avoid that question upfront and do use these techniques of questioning and then offer them some appointments. And another tip I'll give right here, stop asking, do you perform mornings or afternoons or do you prefer a day of the week? Stop it. The reason is, if you ask Catherine, do you prefer mornings or afternoons?Catherine's gonna say mornings because I would rather come in eight o'clock, get my appointment done, have my day to go back to work, and, and be productive. But if you had a one o'clock in the afternoon open tomorrow that you wanted to fill, and you asked me, do you perform mornings or afternoons? I say eight o'clock, you now, it doesn't even make any sense to offer me the one.but that's what you really wanna fill. But if you said to Catherine, you know what I, Catherine, I have a, an appointment doc, uh, doctor has some, an opportunity to see you for that either tomorrow at one or, next Thursday at 10. Which of those would work best for your schedule? I might pick the one tomorrow if it was available.So you've scored big with me. Now what I know is that three outta four people will go where you lead them. if you lead them. In other words, if you give me a choice, three outta four people will pick one of those choices. You score big on three people. If you just don't ask 'em morning or afternoon, just take 'em.Give them your hardest to fill times and see what happens. One out of four, Michael, mm-hmm. will not go where you lead them. They are assertive enough personalities that unless you can give them an eight o'clock on a Monday, they're not coming there. And so if you offer me one in 10. . Then that assertive person's gonna say, well, actually, the only time I can come is eight o'clock on a Monday morning.Can you see me? Right? And so what have you lost with that person? You've lost nothing. You'll direct them to your next available early morning, which might be a while, but you've scored big on the other three that wouldn't have picked the one o'clock, but took it because you offer. , do you see?Mm-hmm. . So free yourself up. Stop that habit of, of doing that, and just offer them, direct them where you want to go, where, where you want them to go. so back to my question of the shopper and the insurance on the shopper, I am going to try to guide them and a lot of them will never ask that question a second time, and they will come in, but some will, some will say, well, I, I'm not ready to schedule cuz you never answer my question about how much it costs.So I contend administrators need to sit down with their manager or. and they need to ask, they need to say, I'm feeling very skilled to avert that question at least once, maybe twice. But if they push me a second or third time and say, I need the, I need to know how much it is, I need to know from you which way you want me to go, because whether I, whether they quote it or refuse to quote it, they're going to lose some people. if you quote it and you're not the cheapest, you're gonna lose some. If you refuse to quote it, you're gonna lose some. So I think it's a great trade to an owner or manager for an administrator to say, I'm not gonna answer it on the first go round. I'm gonna use this technique. I'm gonna try to get them in here where we can see them eyeball to eyeball and we can quote the fees.Then I'm gonna do my very best. And if for those. Circle back around and force me, how do you want me to respond? And really, it's a, it's just a choice. my preference is to, uh, quote range if you're pushed into the corner to quote as wide a range as is reasonable or truthful. But not to do it right away, not to do it on the first go round, you know, to have some skills to try to avoid that question.We're not trying to avoid the question. We're trying to get them there to see and only quote what is real. We're also trying to get them in so that they have an experience of what our fees afford them. We can't give them that experience of what our fees afford them over the. completely. So if we can get them in, we have a chance of them falling in love with us, falling in love with our office, our doctor, our hygienist, our team, our technology, all of that.But we, it's harder on the phone. So, so those are some tips for that, for insurance. you know, it's easy if you're on the plan, but if you're not, my suggestion very quickly would be don't tell them what you're not. , tell them what you are. So instead of saying, I'm sorry, we're not a provider on the plan, you're gonna lose a hundred percent of those people, wouldn't you?Mm-hmm. , you're gonna lose a hundred percent. But if you say, I'm so glad you called. And we work with a lot of patients who have, blue Cross Insurance, we are considered what is known as an unrestricted or, you could say, I've heard people say, uh, non-preferred. I don't, I don't like that term. I think non-preferred sounds like the insurance company doesn't prefer you.Mm-hmm. . But my favorite term of all is either unrestricted or non-contracted. So if someone says, you know, I was wondering if you accepted my Blue Cross Insurance, then I would say, well, I'm so glad you called. we help a lot of patients with that insurance.We're considered what's called a non-contracted provider. Here's how your insurance would work in our practice. And we help them understand. So what we're doing is we're saying, here's what we are instead of what we're. Here's what we can do instead of what? What can't be done, here's how you can use it instead of how you can't use it,So it's the other side of the coin. I'm never asking people to say something untrue or something that is a lie. It's a bait and switch, and I don't believe in it. I don't believe in saying, yeah, you can use your insurance. Come on in. And then revealing once they're there that we actually aren't a provider on their plan.I think we need to be truthful, but again, . I often will say, you know, I'm curious why you're looking for a provider on the plan. Is there some particular reason that you're wanting to be seen by a dentist? And if I can find that reason, I can sell my practice back to that reason. And often I can get them in even when we're not providers often, but if we do not reach to that phone line and convince them that they shouldn't make a decision till they meet our doctor.They're, they're gonna go someplace else. Cuz in their mind, all dental practices are kind of the same. They all went to dental school, they all do a crown. They, you know, it's all the same. So unless we can kind of enlighten them that it isn't the same, then we're playing the wrong game. We're playing the wrong game.Michael: Yeah. really like that. Uh, especially, and I, I kind of see now that you're talking to me, This involves a lot of consistency, like training, right? Like, it's not just like a here's a thing and then get it, get it together. Because I remember when I think we had like somebody talk to us about print office training on how to handle new patients phone calls.And I did the same thing, but then when, when that happened, when someone's like, oh, I just need like the plane and, um, and metaphor, right? I, I forgot everything and I, I just went back to my old habits and then I just went like, okay, well, uh, let me just check real quick and then, and I was like, why I, I, I failed.I gave up. You know? So I feel like that that's a thing that can happen quite often. Katherine: yeah. We wanna support people with a system that they feel like they can be who they are, but they have some guidance. I know how to handle this question. I mean, there's only a handful of common questions if we're going to get four or five.In some practices, it's many more than that a day. , are you on my plan questions or how much, you know, if you're, you're, you're really, promoting different ways of marketing practices. So I mean, I feel like we're always marketing. We're, there's never a time, we're not marketing, right. We're, we're always putting forth an image of who we are.And so you can't not market, but you cannot. Market on purpose. You can market accidentally, and sometimes not the way you meant to. And so you know it, so maybe all you have is a website and you're, maybe you're not, you don't have a social media campaign. You're not doing direct mail, you're not, you don't have a billboard, you whatever.but regardless, they're gonna find you some way, they're gonna find you through referrals, the, the relationships you've nurtured. That's a marketing activity. So however they come to you, we have to have people on the phone that are skilled at the common questions those people would ask. And I find the more we do external marketing, the more we are doing direct mail, the sort of a cold call, the more we are doing social media outreaches and things like that, the more we're doing those kinds of things, the more we generate shopper questions and.a lot of administrators because they struggle with the question, they're not very successful with them. And anything you're not very successful with, you're going to avoid and not like, we wanna get 'em way more successful.So they actually go, oh, goodie a shopper question. A price question. Because a price question says I'm interested, it's actually a really great question. It's basically a screaming neon sign saying, I'm in the market. I'm, I'm interested, but I have a, uh, this little roadblock of price. And often they don't know what else to ask.often, those price shoppers wouldn't choose the cheapest if they knew it meant. Quality. Nobody stands behind the work. The place is dirty, the service is terrible. the experience is terrible. It's unskilled people, all of that. If they knew it, they'd say, well, I'd rather pay a little more and get a different experience. But it's up to us to make sure that they understand the experience with us. So I think that's the key, is getting your people trained, not just handing them a phone and a pat on the back and saying, good luck. Yeah. And that's how a lot of administrators are trained.No, I Michael: agree a hundred percent. Wow. Catherine, thank you so much for being with us. We had, I wanted to ask you more stuff, more questions, but this was so jam packed. We definitely gotta invite you back on again, but, oh, I'd Katherine: love to be back on so much to talk about. I mean, communication runs the world, right?It, it just, everything happens through communication. So there's lots to talk about. Michael: that's true. Yeah. Communication. I really appreciate it though the, a lot of these principles that you, you mentioned here, especially when it comes to new patients and And diving into that, where can our listeners find you if they need to reach out to you?Katherine: Well, they can reach out, through our website, obviously, which is lion speak, l i o n s p e a k.net. the.com is owned by Lions Peak Winery, so if you want wine, we say go there, . But if you want communications training, come to lion speak.net. And, if you go to, patient service skills, the tab there.There'll be a dropdown menu and it'll show you, a lot of the programs we have, uh, an audio download. It's kind of a do-it-yourself, telephone training program, so you can buy that audio download. It comes with a workbook, and your people can listen to it and learn how to do all of this much better.So it's a very affordable, very easy sort of do it yourself. if you, Some ongoing help. We have an annual program that includes that training, but it also includes virtual time with a live trainer, and the Mystery Shepherd calls throughout the year and, you know, more handholding and more, hands on, training for your team.So, lots of different options. we do some onsite visits, uh, if we wanna combine some topics for teams. And, so you can learn a lot, a lot about us there. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely check that out. And Catherine, thank you so much for being with us. It was a pleasure, and we'll hear from you soon.Thank you.‍‍

In this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode, I'm joined with dental marketing expert Christa Nes-Iadicola, who shares four key tips for a great patient experience: consistency, simplicity, cohesiveness, and connection. Consistency means patients know what to expect when they visit and you deliver! Simplicity ensures that the whole process is low friction, with easy scheduling and no need to re-ask questions. Cohesiveness makes sure your team is on the same page, answering commonly asked questions in a uniform fashion. Lastly, connection is the unique experience aspect, calling your patients by name and taking detailed chart notes. She also emphasizes approaching patients with servitude, not entitlement, and sending personal letters to patients who leave. Drop in on my conversation with Christa for valuable insights on improving your patients' experience!‍You can reach out to Christa Nes-Iadicola here:Email: info@christanesllc.comWebsiteFacebook‍Other Mentions and Links:Denta DentalHIPAA - The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Krista, so talk to us about patient retention. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us? That will help us with this. Christa: Yes, Michael? So I think when you talk about patient retention, it really comes down to, one thing, and that's a great patient experience.And to have a great patient experience, I think you really need to dial in for. Key points. and the first one is consistency. You have to have your systems and protocol in place. Um, the patient needs to know what to expect for that appointment, and then you need to deliver that. So once that is done, that's the first step in trust.After you repeat that process in every area of your practice, the patients begin to trust you. So, um, when you think about systems and protocol that you need to have in place to have good patient retention, There really are a lot that go into it, but if you look at just a few, look at your policies, look at your cancellation policy.Look at your confirmation policy. Do your patients know what they are or are they calling to cancel their appointment? And the staff is. Annoyed that they're canceling their appointment within two short timeframe, but they never were aware of your policy. That creates friction between the staff and the patient, obviously.So the patients need to know exactly what to expect on every level. So this is prepping them for their appointments. If it's a first appointment, even if it's a return appointment, they want to know what to expect. And once you're hitting those x. Expectations, um, then the patient starts to trust you. I think you also have to think about your policies when it comes to follow up.So when you're following up with patients that cancel, are we just letting them fall through the cracks and then picking it up at another time when they're not necessarily thinking about that appointment anymore? Or is there a good protocol in place that we've became consistent on within the staff?obviously when you're looking at patient retention, your attrition rate will start to go up as soon as those patients hit a certain month mark, and they're not reappointing. So look up at how you're reappointing. Are you reappointing? And what is your follow-up system look like? Most offices these days use um, automation, which is great, but when are you going to get a personal touch and.in that process with the patient. So is what I find with the offices that I work with is that a lot of staff will have limiting beliefs, in this area specifically. They'll say, well, I'm looking at their history and it shows that we've texted them this many times. I'm not going to reach out and annoy them.But the simplest form of communication and even texting, still using the automation, but just saying, hi, this is Krista from this dentist office, is a way that your patients do start to respond. Um, and at times you may have to, yes, pick up the phone and contact them directly, but patients are just like us busy, so they're appreciative of that.So I think. , there's a a big hold up with the staff that I see that are in charge of doing this process. It's just not being done because they simply don't think it needs to be, or they feel like they're annoying patients when they do that. So the second one, that I think is a key factor, especially in today's world.Like I said, patients are busy is simplicity. So is it easy to schedule in your practice? do you send online forms? But in that initial phone call you're asking further address, . No. So I see a lot of redundancies like that. Or are you having them fill out your med history form, which obviously is necessary and they're entering all their insurance information.But then when they come in, that's the first question that you're asking them. Do you have a copy of your insurance card? Makes the patient feel like, well, why did I spend all that time doing it for you? So we really need to get the simplicity in the office and look at, again, look at all of your. , are they simple for the patient or are they about us?So are they about making our jobs easier or are they simple for the patient? And I believe that, um, when you really take a step back and look at the patient experience and look at the staff process, that it all can be intertwined and be easy for the patient and still work for the staff. but it does take some work to get it there.So, um, a huge one that I see, and I was actually in an office just this morning and this happened was, insurance, right? Insurance is confusing for patients. A lot of times patients will have a medical insurance card and it won't have the dental on it, and they'll say, well, I didn't get it until card, which is true.And you know, people that work in a dentist's office, staff members do know that to be true and. , I can think of the top three in my area that are notorious dental insurances for not giving a dental card. Right? And I, I would say Delta is one of those among any area, and we all know and have the capability to log into that Delta website, type in a social and a birthdate when that patient is standing in front of you.and pull their benefits up within, I won't even say minutes, within a minute. So that's something that's totally at our reach that I see offices passing back to the patient, well, you need to talk to your hr. You need to find out who's your dental insurance, or We can't file, or we can't see you, or whatever.The thing that they're saying is, when really if you would just type that number into Delta or do a employer search on your, practice management software, they all have it, right? The the answer is right there in front of us. So if we put in a little bit of effort for that patient is what happens is it kind of clears out all of the backend side of things.You're not having to follow up with that patient, make sure they did call back, then verify the benefits, and then send the claim. making that effort for the patient coming up with an. and then your backend process is cleared. So in this case, the patient, he did find out who his insurance was through and he was just saying, oh, I just have a member id.I don't have a card. Is that okay? I said, yes, we can help. I messaged him back. I just said, I'll just text you back and make sure everything's good. And he said, wow. Thank you so much. Your staff is awesome. I am so happy because this was such a stressful morning when I didn't have the insurance and I was trying to find the information.So, as we know, dental insurance doesn't make things easy for us either. They don't make it for the patients easy as well. So I think that's an. Major area where the staff members are always more well-versed than the patients that you really can help them. And that kind of thing goes a long way. Um, so if we approach talking to our patients with an attitude of servitude rather than entitlement, you should have brought me that card.That was your responsibility. You knew you were coming for an appointment, whatever their reasoning may be. If we approach it with an attitude of how can I help? , then that patient obviously is going to have a better experience. So the next one that I see is cohesiveness. And this kind of plays into the other ones as well, um, into consistency.But the patients will ask the same question multiple times. We all know that. So they're going to ask the same question when they call and talk to the front desk as they may ask the clinician when they sit down for their appointment. So is that answer always the. or are we contradicting each other within that answer?So if one staff member answers this question and. another answers it differently. Um, it can often turn into a he said, she said situation, right? And then depending on your office culture, depends on how that's gonna play out. Are you gonna start having staff members throw each other under the bus or, um, what's that gonna look like?Are you gonna just always speak? Calling saying, oh, well, we have to get our office manager involved and they can figure it out. Um, so what does that look like? Is there a cohesive feel in the office? and is there a positive. Office culture on how the staff are interacting with each other as well as the patients, how the doctors are interacting with the staff and the patients.Is there a cohesive kind of culture that the patients then know to come and expect and can be true at your office? . so if you really have all of these three things dialed in, your patients will start to trust you because they'll have no reason not to. Right? Um, so then I think there's one last piece that if you add in, it just takes your office to the next level.And that is the piece of connection and care. So you have trust without this, but then when you add it in, you really start to get those loyal patients that you then have no problems, retain. . when you think about that, there's really a lot that you can do with it and you can really cater it to your office and the core cultures that your office has to offer.Um, but the first thing is make it each visit personalized. And it, it sounds silly to say out loud, but I'll tell you the number of offices that I walk into and hear the front desk speak to the patients and. Hi, what's your name? Is Unreal. So there's no better way to make a patient feel like a number than saying, hi, what's your name?So when you, again, look at your practice management software, they all have a place for a patient photo. So your check-in person, your greeting person, . patients typically come in on the hour, half an hour, somewhat staggered, but there's no reason that even if you have 15 patients coming in on the hour, they can't look at those patients and use some sort of deductive reasoning to see their name.Or I don't even care if the patient sits down in the waiting room after they've greeted them, and then they figure out whose name it is and check them in. Right. So there's really. To me, no excuse for that. And there's a number of strategies that you can use on that as well. But that is the first.Point. typically in the patient experience when they're coming into the office that you really wanna set the stage because you have been expecting them, right? If they canceled their appointment, you would've been mad at them, so now they're here, so be happy with them, right? So if we look at it like that, um, I think it starts to change, but, uh, it's also knowing how to speak to your patients, right?So anytime you're asking your patients, Do something. Obviously you're going to have those certain protocols that you have in place and anytime you're asking the patient to do something, they may not want to say. You only schedule your um, major procedures in the morning. . So add in the value of why that's important, not for you, for the patient, and then talk to them in that way.So say, Michael, uh, I know that you prefer later in the afternoon, but for this procedure, the doctor does it first thing in the morning. We don't double book at this time so you can have his full attention and we can get you in out here as soon as possible. Well, now you understand why that's necessary before you just understand that that doesn't work for your.right? So it's knowing how to add the value to the patient with what your. asking them to do. and then there's a lot that you can do to make the experience personal. Obviously adding in your chart notes, something that you spoke about the last time, and then following up on it the next time, that makes the patient feel that you do remember them.Um, and usually if you have the chart notes down, you can kind of trigger the memory on that. Um, one that I see a lot too is, uh, and I think this is very important for the. Is to prep the doctors that day with larger practices. Like, Hey, you, you have done an exam on this patient before You just met them one time.They're a little overdue, so it was eight months ago, so I'm not sure if you're going to remember them, but don't go in and reintroduce yourself. Right? Nothing worse than that. So, , make them aware, of the patients that they're not meeting . And the best way to do that again, is to have those structures and protocol in place, but then have that connection point and reference it from last time.So then once you kind of, and, and all of these things are harder to do of course, if you don't have your systems and protocol in place. But once you do, then you can really start to. Personalize it. You can do a lot of it with automation as well. Um, you're gonna put a personal touch on it, but even in your software, if you are talking to patients and they're expecting a baby, or they're getting married or graduating or retirement, there's a lot that you can do with that in the form of cards, emails following up the next time, and really just kind of connecting with that patient on the level of, Hey, well, Only, you know, we're really relationship in this way, but we really do care for you.Um, so I think that is major. And again, even if you approach contacting patients when they're overdue or due for treatment in a way of care, , and this is a team effort, and you relate it back to their chart notes. While I see the last time that you came in, doctor was concerned about this area, so he asked me to give you a call to follow up on that because we, we wanted to make sure we got that taken care of for you.So I think it's really about being intentional in the way you do things and realizing that. Um, it's a team effort. It's all going together. You need to be keeping good notes. You need to be referencing each other's notes, and you need to be follow up in that way, even stating, Hey, no, you canceled your appointment cuz you were sick or you feeling better?How's it going? Can we get you scheduled back in? referencing all those notes is it's just going to make the patient feel like they're not a number. they really. Care. So I think that is really key as well, on, um, retaining the patients. And then of course, if you do have a patient that decides to leave, make sure that you, you make them aware that you will miss them, right?Mm-hmm. so. And then a letter that you're saying, Hey, thank you for time with us. If anything in your future were to change, we would always love to have you back and extend that invitation and open the door. So if they were not happy with their new office, they can come back to your office, um, but without feeling embarrassed or, or like they shouldn't have left in the first place.Michael: Yeah. No, that's wonderful. if you could real quick, let us know, would this be really helpful in the morning huddles or like in a team meeting to make sure, like, let's make sure we're all cohesive here with, with our patients. Christa: Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, go over certain points in the morning huddles.There's a lot that you can do. And again, it's a team effort and it's just about being intentional. you may have a patient coming in and their spouse hasn't been in, in quite some time. Well, it's okay, you know, make sure you're not breaking any HIPAA laws obviously, but ask about that. and say their spouse is gonna go home and say, Hey, I was just at the dentist's office and they were asking about you because you, you haven't made an appointment in a while.So there's a lot that you can do internally too to kind of get those patients back on the books. But the morning huddle is the perfect place to kind of, um, prep for this, or even if, if a patient had a rough appointment the last time to really make sure that you make this experience. better, So be aware of those things and then if you do have a patient that has a long wait time or something, um, figure out a way that you can kind of remedy it so they can get back to that consistent experience and realize that that one time was the outlier.Michael: Awesome. Krista, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her in the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group or where can they reach out to you Christa: directly? Yeah, they can email me at info krista ness llc dot. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely reach out to her.Krista, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Christa: Thanks, Michael.

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: Sana YusufPractice Name: Sana Dental Studio & SpaCheck out Sana's Media:‍Instagram: @sanayusufdmd‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Unreasonable HospitalityExcite Realty GroupTricare InsuranceVolkswagenHumanaMichael Dinsio - Next Level ConsultantsHeartland DentalMorpheus MachineTransdental MarketingMVP MailhouseArt of Dental MarketingRenew Digital‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Balancing work and home life can be tough. Making time for YOU is just as important as both!If you are saying yes to everything, you are also saying no to many other opportunities. Keep this in mind when agreeing to obligations!Cosmetic and spa offerings can be a big draw for your practice. Try keeping up with what patients want in addition to a dental experience.In the US Army, Sana learned to take a conservative approach to procedures. Sometimes if a procedure isn't needed immediately, patients appreciate you working with their schedule and feelings.Do not count on team members to stick with you forever! It is important to respect their choices and have a backup plan if another opportunity arises for them.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:‍‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Sauna. How's it going? Good, how are you? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located? Sana: So we are in like north suburbs of Tampa. So Wesley Chapels, specifically Wesley Chapel, Florida.Oh, Michael: nice. Okay. So the weather right now over there is pretty Sana: Yeah, I was gonna say, let's see, let's check 81 degrees. It's great. . Michael: Oh man, that's winter right there for you guys. So in summer, how does summer look? Sana: It's like very hot, but I'm also not like a native Floridian, so for me, I'm like, oh, this feels great.Like, I don't know, I was made for the desert, so I Michael: like it. It's made for the desert. No, that's good. That's good. I, I hear Tampa Bay, it's really beautiful. So It is, yeah. Sana: I, my husband and I talk about it all the time, like it feels like we're on vacation. Mm-hmm. every day, and I'm like, wait, we live here.This is kinda cool. . So like, if we go to the beach, it's not like we have to like, pack up and like go to our hotel. We're like, okay, now we just have to drive to our house. So this is cool. Yeah. So it's nice. It, it definitely is a nice, nice place to Michael: be. Nice. Awesome. Okay, so son, tell us a little bit about your past, your present.How did you get to where you are today? Sana: Okay. I was like, how, how far back are we going? I was July 10th, 1991. I was born, no, I'm just kidding. , you were born Michael: July 10th, 1991. Sana: I was, yeah. I'm a. I'm Michael: 30. I'm 31. Sana: I'm 31. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Millennial as it gets, that's Michael: millennial as it gets. Okay, cool. So then talk to us about, I dunno, you can go as far back as you want, but like, okay.I Sana: won't go that far back. It's kind of boring. Like, you know, tons of like generational traumas and like all that, like stuff that you're trying to like break through and like, whatever. So we won't go through all that stuff that's like for therapy, but like professional. Right. Okay. So I, um, graduated high school oh nine and I went straight into like, um, Seven year dental program at Detroit Mercy. So, , I did three years undergrad and then you go like automatically into dental school as long as you like D a T scores, science, gpa, all that stuff. Mm-hmm. . So, I kind of decided, I was like, Hey, like I don't wanna live in Detroit for seven years of my life.I was born in Detroit, so that's cool. But I grew up in like suburbs of Chicago, so like I don't wanna live in Detroit. So I kind of decided, hey, I'm gonna get my bachelor's in three years so that way I can apply to any dental school I want and then I can move back home to Chicago. So that was like always the goal.Mm-hmm. . So I took, I remember one summer I took 21 credit hours of summer school at three different community colleges, Michael: and I was pregnant. Sana: And you were pregnant? And I was pregnant, yes. Surprise, surprise team mom. Anyways, everybody knows that, but it's fine. Who? Whoever didn't know it now knows it.Yeah. So I had a son when I was 19, but um, yeah, so like the summer that I was pregnant with him, I took 21 summer, like 21 credit hours of summer school. Mm-hmm. at three different community colleges. Cause I was like, no, I have to like, I have to graduate in three years. Like that's just my goal now. So I took all the like sociology and psycho, all the like required for your degree, but like not science courses all in summer.So graduated when I was 20 from college. That was cool. That was 2012 and then started dental school immediately. And so I did get into school back in Chicago. I went to Midwestern University in Downers Grove. So I did four years there. I decided to join the Army after I got outta our dental school. So I did the H P S P scholarship.Um, I commissioned when I was still an undergrad, so was in the army, got out. got outta dental school, became active duty in the Army. So that was four years. 2016 is when I graduated dental school. So 2016 to 2020 I was in, in the Army. I was stationed at Fort Hill, Oklahoma. So that's my, my lawyer.Okay. Yeah, . So I was stationed at Fort Sill, so I did four years active duty, which was fun, difficult, definitely, you know, you're kind of like trying to be a soldier, but also trying to be a dentist, trying to figure out how to be a soldier. Also, still trying to figure out how to be a dentist. So it was a lot of like figuring out for four years.and then I decided after I did my four year commitment that we were, yeah. That I was gonna get out. and I wanted to kind of explore private practice and like just being like a civilian dentist. So immediately that happened right when Covid started. So it's like a whole thing where like, . I felt like the world was ending.I mean, I'm sure everybody did when Covid ended, right? But I was getting out of the army where like everything is guaranteed benefits, guaranteed pay. Like, oh, I'm sitting at home because everything is shut down and I'm getting paid and I have like my Tricare medical benefits for my entire family and everything is great and dandy.And I was like giving up all of that security to like jump into like the real world where I'm like, I have to pay $1,500 a month to have health insurance for my children. what? Do you guys need it? Are you okay? Like, can you not fall down? Don't get sick. How about that? Like just, just drink your orange juice, like Rick Juice, like let's save $1,500.Like what is And. . I remember like, so when I was getting out of the army, my husband and I were both from Chicago, so we're like, okay, like let's, we were trying to like decide like, what do we wanna do? Like, do we move back to Chicago? Do we like pick somewhere new? Do we move to Texas? Like, what are we doing?And like, just, we were like, okay, we're gonna move to Florida. So literally we're like, Hey, now where do we move in Florida? Do we go to Miami? We're like, no, that's like two party. Party. And like, we're trying to like have a family and like kids , I don't wanna be in South Beach. Like if I'm down there, I'm gonna wanna be at South Beach and like ha like at a party.And I also my mom, and so I have kids so I can, that I, okay, we can't go to Miami. Miami is off the table. So, okay. How about Orlando? And I'm like, no. Like I hate traffic. And also like, it's very touristy. So like, okay, we're not moving to Orlando. And so we're like, all right, let's move Tampa. Like, Tampa's like up and coming.Like I was like, it's like the Austin of Florida. Like that's like the way I had like term, I was like, it's the Austin of Florida. Yeah. Cause my like, best friend lives lives in Austin and so we like moved here and this is like before Tom Brady was here. Michael: Cause I thought you were following Tom Brady, but nevermind. Sana: Yeah. I was like, before selling Tampa, like we were here just like, so I didn't move here cause everybody's moving here. We literally picked it and we're like, we're gonna go there. So, yeah. So we moved here like June of 2020. So it's like, what the height of Covid, like the middle of Covid.Mm-hmm. . And as I'm like moving, so my husband got, my husband's a high school teacher, so he like got a job. He was like ready to go. And then I had a job, like as an associate everything's shut down. And so like we're moving here in June and in April they're like, Hey, like by the way, we have to pull your contract.Like, sorry, you can't work here. And we're like, what? I'm like, wait, hold on. Excuse me. like I just can't work here for like the month of April and May because I wasn't gonna be there anyways. Like it's fine. Yeah. And they're like, no, never like until we figure out what's happening with Covid. I was like, people still need dentists during Covid.It's fine. I'll wear a mask. I need a job. You need a dentist? I'm coming. that didn't happen. That didn't happen. So they pulled my contract and I was like, in my head I was like, do I just like stay in the army? I was like, oh, so I should just stay in the army. Like that's like my logical thing.I was like, pull my packet. Like I'm sit, captain Yiv is staying, guys, don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still here. Don't worry. Like not leaving. But my husband's like, no, I have a job in Florida. Like, we're moving. Like, it's fine. We'll figure it out. My husband's like very, like, we'll figure it out. And I'm like, no.Like we must plan. Like I must have a plan for my plan for the backup plan. Like that's how I am. So we're like very opposite and he just is very like, go with it. So like in my head, like, we're moving here. I was like, we should like rent a place, get the lay of the land, like figure it out. Like, and my husband's like, no, I don't wanna move twice.Like, we're just gonna, we should just buy a house when we get, we should just buy a house. And I'm like, dude, like it's covid. Like we have, we haven't, we can't fly there to look at house. We don't need to look at it. They can FaceTime us. is that? What happened? Michael: Yes. , Sana: My husband was like, no, it's fine.They can just FaceTime us. That's fine. So the realtor literally like FaceTimed us. We like saw this house. She sent us some videos and we're like, all right, like let, yeah, let's, okay, let's buy it. Sure. Cool. So like we bought this house site, zine, site unseen. Michael: Is it better than what you expected or worse?Sana: Yeah, I'm like so grateful. I'm like I said, a prayer. My husband actually, like, I was still like filing out, so I couldn't leave Oklahoma as soon as he could. Cause I still have to do like all my paperwork and whatever with the army. And we like got a call like, Hey, your furniture's gonna get delivered on Monday.And we're like, wait, what? Like you guys said it was gonna take two weeks. So like we're all planning like two weeks. Like it'll be perfect timing. So, Once it goes into storage, like, I don't know, I'm sure like everybody who's listening who has done like a military move understands like, do not put your stuff in the storage if it is gonna get delivered straight to your house.Like you accept it, you accept the shipment to your house and you drive 19 hours without stopping to Florida to get your household goods. Otherwise you'll see it in 90 days. Yeah, because once it's a storage, it's gone. So literally my husband and my son got in a car and drove from Oklahoma to Florida.Saturday they left and then Monday our stuff got delivered and they were there to accept the shipment. So anyways, and my husband like calls me, he's like, wow, babe. The front hall's actually a lot bigger than it looked like in the video. And I'm like, I'm so glad that's unthankful . Michael: Really? This is the one thing I wantedSana: It's like I'm so glad that it's like a welcoming the entryway. This is so good. Yeah, so it's so funny. But yeah, so we moved here 2020. Thankfully I like found an associate position. literally in May, we got here in June and like in May, I was just like submitting my Indeed application to like everybody and their mom.And I was like, oh, like you would like somebody at this nursing home to check people's dentures. Of course, yes. Please take my application. Yes, I will come do that. That's what you need. I will do that. . It was, I literally, I think I submitted my, I think people are still responding to my Indeed applications like three years later.we found a great position for you. I was like, not interested, not looking. Thank you. Stop. Stop. S t stop. Unsubscribe, . So yeah, I literally applied to everything that I could think of. So got a job that was cool. Started my first associate position like two weeks after I moved down here. And so at that point it was,It's like culture shock. Like all of a sudden I'm like a dentist in private practice and it's very different than being a dentist in the military. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, like people have to pay for the things that I'm telling them. Like it's just not all free and included. Yeah. And then they don't trust me.Like they think I'm just trying to make money off of them. And I'm like, no, like I'm telling you this because like, you need this, right? Like you need these fillings or you need this crown. And they're like, like, you just want me to pay for your Mercedes. I was like, dude, I drive a Volkswagen, but thank you.Michael: But I would like a Mercedes. So Sana: yes, those are expensive. Tell me about it. How do I ? So if you do this, actually you know what? You should let your tooth fall out. So then you need a, an extraction and then auto the input. And that'll help me pay. Michael: That'll help pay. Yeah. that was like a culture shock then, Sana: It was very like sticker shock and like, honestly, okay, coming from the military, like that was my first experience as a dentist was like dental school where everything's like $5 and nobody cares how you do it because you're a student and you're just trying to learn. And then it's the military where it's like everything's free because they're all soldiers and we're like serving the soldier.We're like getting the soldiers ready for going down range and like being deployable and whatever. and this is gonna sound really bad, but I'm gonna tell you guys the truth. I'm gonna say the truth. in the Army, I got paid exactly the same if I did a filling or I did a crown, or if I watched Game of Thrones in my office.Like, if I told you you needed a filling, it's because you really needed it. I would've preferred to be watching something in my office, I'm getting paid to like sit here and like type some things and like eat my food and like watch Netflix on my phone. I got paid the exact same.So like, yeah, for me, like that's kind of where I got my like treatment planning philosophies was like, oh, you absolutely need, like, you need this and so we're gonna do it. And I think that's, I mean, of course all dentists do that, right? Like, you need this, we're gonna do it. Some people are a little bit more aggressive on the treatment planning side.Some people are a little bit more conservative. I'm very conservative. Like, I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Like let's watch if we can. And if I'm like, no, like we can't watch 86 things like you, you need fillings. Sorry. Mm-hmm. . But I think that was kind of. . The switch for me was like, I'm telling people they need these things because they really need them.I wanna be watching tv. You need these fillings. I'm doing these fillings for you. So now I'm in the real world and people are like, well, you just want me to pay for your car. But I'm like, no, but you really just need these fillings. you're not paying for my car. I don't understand what's happening right now.And so it was, it was like a very like, weird, like and it was like, also like covid. And everybody's like, well, can you put your mask? I was like, I have two masks on. Thank you. what do you want from me? I don't understand what I'm a yellow banana suit. I have three masks on. I don't, I don't get it.Like, and you don't want this filling, and I don't want to do this filling. So I'm gonna get covid because I'm doing this filling on you. yeah, yeah. I have the short end of the stick here, guys. I don't want $26 and 15 cents from Humana for this filling, but you need it. So here we are. And like, yeah.So that was like deep dive, like into like private practice. , and I mean, I technically worked for like a corporate office mm-hmm. , and it was a, it was a different type of like, corporate, it wasn't like corporate, corporate, it was just like, like more private practice feel, but still corporate. I don't know if that makes sense.But Yeah. I mean, and there were some like really great things about it and some knots. So really great things about it. I did find myself, and maybe it's like my, innate leadership ability, I guess, if you wanna call it, or like my four years in the Army where I was like forced to be a leader.So now I'm always just like thinking of like, how can we do things better? How can we do this more productive, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. So I'm over here like, just turning this dude's practice around basically like a mini like owner. Like, okay, like guys, like, we need to like really hone in on our ordering.Like, why are we ordering 86 different types of composite? We don't need that. Like, we use two things. So let's like stick to those two things. Mm-hmm. , like whatever, like, just like really streamlining things and like, Switched the whole practice around. Everybody's like, wow, we like patients, staff.Everybody's like, we just love coming here. It's so great. And I'm like, oh, you're welcome guys. I'm And yeah, so then at that moment I was like, wait, I'm like doing this for somebody else. So like why don't I do this for me? And that's kind of like where like the whole like switch happened a little bit where I was like, well, I should, I could, I could do this for myself.Okay. So I'm also like very like squirrel brained. So like all of this is gonna connect, I promise this will all connect. It's connect. Yeah. It's connected. Yeah. So I'm gonna pause that story for a second. I'm gonna tell another story and then I'm gonna connect the two stories. Okay. Okay. So whoever, maybe if somebody like from the Texas State Board can like message me on Instagram and tell me how this happened, feel free.But when I was in the military, so I was in Oklahoma, which was right above Texas, and so I had my Texas license and my Oklahoma license. . I got my Texas license in 2017, just like for reference of timeframe. I got my Texas license and then all of a sudden I get a call from somebody and they were like, Hey, where from blah, blah, blah.Like real estate company. Like are you interested in like opening up your own practice? And like, and so, you know, we'd love to help you like find some space, whatever. Actually I think I can just say it like, it's fine. Cuz they helped me. This is why I ended it was Excite Realty. a, a healthcare realty firm or whatever.So they have an office in Texas. They have an office in Florida. So, calls me, this guy calls me, what was his name? Tristan, Tristan called me and I was like, no, Tristan, I'm in the Army. Like I am not looking to open my prac.Like, I'm literally like active duty military. Like I'm not opening a practice. Like, thank you. And I'm like also not very like. , please don't call me. Stop calling me. I was like, yeah, like, not right now. Tristan, thanks for calling. Like have a great day, whatever. Okay. He's like, all right, sounds good. I guess he like kept me on his list.Mm-hmm. , because he literally called me every October until 2021. Oh man. Yeah, he was like very persistent. Tristan was very persistent and so it's like 2017 all the way, 2021. So like at this point, so he calls me in 2021 and this time I was like, yo, I'm not even in Oklahoma anymore, bro. I don't even have my Texas license anymore.Like, so I like, at this point I was like a little bit more assertive also, I had an eight month old baby, so I was like probably sleep deprived. just all the things like, yeah, you know what? So I just was like, Kristen, stop calling me. So this was the first time in like, what, five years that I said it to him, Hey Tristan, listen, I'm not in Oklahoma.I'm not in Texas. I'm not gonna open a practice in Texas. Like I just, what? Can you take me off the call list? Like, thank you so much. He's like, oh doctor, real quick. Where are you? I was like, I live in Florida now. I live in Florida. And he was like, oh, we have a branch in Florida, bro. What? ? Michael: Yeah. I Sana: was like, Christine.I was like, and so, okay, fine. You know what? I was like, literally, and I remember this, I literally remember this because I was so, I was like nursing my daughter, she was eight months old. I'm sitting in the car at the outlet mall, like, so I don't remember my mother-in-law, somebody was in the mall and I was like, I'm just gonna sit in the car nurse her, like, just leave me alone.So, and I answered the phone to tell him, please stop calling me. And then he's like telling me like, well we have a, we have a location in Florida. And I'm like, Tristan, . Okay, what do I have to pay you? Like, let's just start there. Like what does this cost me? Like you keep telling me like, what does this cost me?And so this is like at that junction where I'm like doing all this for this other guy, like building up his practice and I'm like, I should do this for myself. Then Tristan calls me and I'm like, well, okay, maybe I should like entertain it. Like, okay, Tristan, how much does it cost? And he is like, oh, you don't pay anything.The landlord pays for it. I was like, this is Bri. Why did you start with that in 2017? Dude? open with that. Open with this doesn't cost you anything. Like maybe I would've been nicer for the last five years. Who would've thought? Yeah, so, okay, all right. I was like, all right, okay, let's give this the shot.And this was like kind of when my startup journey like began, oh no, sorry, this is October of 2020. So this is, yeah, 20, 23 years. Three years there. Mm-hmm. 20 17, 20 20, yeah. October of 2020. So I was like, okay, fine. Entertain me. That's fine. Let's see. So I gave him like what my like. to do my list was like what?Like what I want. Perfect practice, whatever. And like the place that I live is very like up and coming, so it's not like established. And there's a lot of like families coming in here. So like everybody from like California and New York. everybody that's like coming down here from there is like now moving to Wesley Chapel. So it's very like up and coming. So this is also where I live. And so I was like, Hey guys, like I want a practice like where I live.Okay. Like in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have done that, but that's a whole other story. But I was like, I want something like close to home, like two minutes from my house, I can go home for lunch. Like this is great. Like that's what I want. So it's very specific. Is Michael: it right now two minutes from your house?Sana: five minutes from my house. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. Like we can't be that. so I gave him like this like list where I was like, this is like finding a unicorn, they won't be able to do this.Mm-hmm. . And I took, I was like, look, I really like my position. I'm making good money. I'm happy in what I'm doing. The thought has crossed my mind if the stars in the moon align, like, yeah, maybe I'll do it. So off you go, do your homework. Bye. So obviously like this area's up and coming, there's no practice acquisitions because everybody is a millennial dentist, so they're not retiring.Mm-hmm. , or they're like too young to be retiring. So there's no nothing to acquire around here. So it's all like, it has to be a startup. So we're looking, looking, looking. We found a few places like, you know, and so like the type of person I am, I'm always like prepared for like the other shoe to drop, right?So I told Tristan, all right, yeah, dude, put me in touch with your Florida guy. Let's do it whatever. Florida dude contacts me and then give him his homework. And I'm like, he's not gonna find anything, but that's fine. So I'm just waiting, like at some point I was like, this entire process will end somewhere.it won't ever complete because they won't find a location, we won't find the lease, the construction budget will be out of wac, like whatever, right? Like something's just not gonna align and then it won't happen. Mm-hmm. . So we started this search October of 2020 for reference. I signed my lease in July of 2021, October, 2020 to July of 2021.So, and we started like Lois and stuff in March of 2021. . So it took me a while. Mm-hmm. for us to like really just like get things together. and again, like I said, the entire time I'm waiting for like the other shoe to drop. So, yeah. So we like found a place, it was this really awesome, like in an ortho building, and I was like, oh, this is perfect.Like there's an orthodontist in this building, there's this like endo, there's perio, and then like, I can be here. Like this is cool. Like everybody I would refer to is like just right around me. Anyways, like that was the first LOI I put in, and that didn't go anywhere because the guy decided to like, keep it for himself.I'm like, bro, why would you waste my time? Like, yeah, it's fine, whatever. So then we put in like an L LOI at another place, which I had a feeling like it wasn't gonna work at that place, but I just like rolled with the punches. I'm like, all right, yeah, whatever, whatever. So we put in our l o I and in there in my head, like I had already put in there that I wanna have like cosmetic procedures.potentially Botox, fillers, whatever, that type of stuff. I wanna be able to do it at some point. Mm-hmm. . And they were like, yeah, no, you can't do that. Like, there's an ALTA in this plaza so you can't do cosmetic procedures. I'm like, what? Michael: Isn't Alta like just like hair? Or let's Sana: make up, I was like, I was like, because the, because they do free makeup if you buy $50 worth of makeup.And that's considered called is. Is that what like, wait, I have no idea. He like, wouldn't give me any insight. I was like, bro, what? Like literally I was just like, what? I was so confused and so like, I tried like a little bit to negotiate this leave. Mm-hmm. and I was like, ok, fine. I can look past that. Like this is like on the second floor and Okay.Like everybody knows how complicated dental plumbing is. Right? So the first floor, like whatever was below that space, was already like built out. Mm-hmm. . So we had told them like we would need to go through their ceiling. to do our plumbing, but we'll do it like after hours on the weekends. Like we will not disrupt business hours.And the landlord's like, Nope, not allowed. We're like, can we like ask the the person else it? I was like, no. He was like, no, not allowed. We're like, all right, well here's your l o I. Here's your lease. Bye. Like, okay, this. So like at that point I'm like, see guys, like this is why I'm not committed to anything.Like, cuz I knew what was gonna happen. Yeah. I already lost like two places at this point. I've spent like $5,000 on lease reviews to go nowhere. I'm like, well this is just really stupid. I'm like, this is a lot of money. And I was like, now I need to go work extra hours at my job. Like, this is dumb. Yeah. So then I found this.and we're like, okay, so we're doing the lease review. And like the landlord here, same thing was like, there was just like so much back and forth. They have never like leased out to a dentist. So they just trusted nothing because we don't have, like, I don't have like a solid business plan. It's like me, my word document that I made with all my projected things that I'm like, I can accomplish all of these things because I believe in myself and here's my business plan and this is what most dentists do and this is what's projected.And here you go, enjoy. Right? And they're like, yeah, no, that's like not real. Like this is all made up. And I'm like, you're right, it is. I made it all up. It was really great . And they're like, great. I made all that up. It's so great. I made it up on my kitchen table, so it's fine. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so that was very difficult for them to like, trust us.Like, trust me. Mm-hmm. , they're like, you won't be able to pay your rent. I was like, I mean, your rent's a little high, so, Couldn't Michael: negotiate that down a little bit. Negotiate, you're probably right. Sana: Little high's a little high, but whatever. so, yeah. So we ended up negotiating that lease and it worked out and I signed my lease July of 2021 and that was it.And then we signed the lease and we were here. Okay. So that's like one pause, that's like one story. We're gonna pause right there. Okay. Okay. So I have three kids by the way. Okay. So I, three kids. I have a 12 year old, I have a three-year-old and I have a nine month old. Yeah. So, yeah. So after my second, yes, so after I had my first two kids, I was like, yeah, like I'm not having, I'm not having any more kids.Like I can't. Maybe t m i, but whatever, like real life here it is. Like I had fertility problems, so like mm-hmm. , having my daughter was very difficult. And like after going through that, my husband are like, okay. Yeah. Like, okay, we're good. Like we got one boy, we got one girl. Like, it's good. Like we're done.Yeah. Okay. So like, that's fine. Right. Okay. Tell me why. Like August of 2021, I found out I was Michael: as soon as you, when did you sign the, in July of 2021. And then in August. How were you, talk to me about that thought process when that happened. Like how were you thinking in the sense of like, why me, why now? Or were you like, this is great, this is fantastic. Sana: No, I was like, so how do I get outta his leaseI was like, wait a minute. Ok. I was like, it's fine. Right? It's fine. We can get out of it. Like, dude, I signed a 15 year lease. it's a very long lease. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I was like, what? That can't be right. That's, that's not true. That's not true life. And it was, it was a very true life. And I remember when my, when I started with my consultant, he told me two things, do not make any big purchases and do not get pregnant.Who is your consultant? Mike Ncio. Next level consultant. Okay. Yeah, Michael: yeah, yeah. How do you like Sana: working with them? Oh my god, he was amazing. Awesome. I think I referred like everybody to him and he is awesome. So everybody who's watching this should also go call Mike because he is literally amazing. And all of this would not be here if it wasn't for him.because he got me through a lot of crap, like a lot like dude, I was like a hormonal person, right? Like my diapers are really Michael: expensive. Diapers are, they still aren't really expensive. They're expensive. And Sana: I just sleep trained My eight month old or how old is she? No, she's a year and a half. Oh God, no.My son now is nine months old. Kidding. Everything confused. Like that's how discombobulated I am. But yeah, no, Mike really helped me through a lot of stuff. And so I called him and I was like, Hey Mike, I have to tell you something. And I remember this like, he was the, besides my husband, who also didn't believe me that I was pregnant.Mike was the second person that I told that I was pregnant. And he also didn't believe me. He like thought I was joking. Yeah. And I was like, no, I'm not. Like I'm, I'm serious. I'm so serious. p my entire like buildout, I was also building a human inside my body. That was kind. Yeah. So, yes.Michael: That's pretty intense. Mm. That's Sana: okay. And so we opened in March of 2022. My son was born on four 20 of 2022. Michael: Yeah. Sana: Wait, did you catch his Michael: birthday April? Oh, oh, okay. I was like, I thought just a month later, I don't get it, but No, yeah, yeah, I get it. Sana: But yes, it was a month later, literally, so like I opened and it was, I was like literally nine months pregnant when I opened.And then I had my son a week a month later, and then two weeks after I had him, you better believe I did 17 fillings on my first day back, man. Michael: Yeah. So, okay. So you opened your practice, right? Yeah. And we can talk about, like, a little bit about the whole part of, uh, opening up. I actually wanted to go back a little bit and talk about that generational trauma, but we can do that another episode or something like that.But when it comes to the opening up the practice and now you're, how many months or years open now? Sana: so 11 months open now. Michael: Okay. And has, how does the trajectory look? Has it been like Sana: okay, so it was like this, okay, so we are like hyping up to like open, like open, and then it's like give birth, boom,Okay, cool. So it's like, okay, so, so we're here like, oh, everything's really cool. People like this pregnant dentist. Like, okay, she's so cute. Oh my God, you're having a baby. Oh, practice. We're so proud of you have a baby. Literally like rapid decline. And then I came, so I came back from maternity leave, like I came back from maternity.Okay. Just two weeks count as maternity leave. No, it doesn't. I came back from giving birth. Yeah, right. 10 days later. Okay. I was like, I'll be back from vacation guys. I'll be our B. Just, yeah. Don't let anything break when I, you know, until I get back. Literally. . So then when I got back I was only seeing patients like once a week because I was like, guys, I just had a baby.Like I need to heal a little bit. So like Michael: need to heal. You just gave life, you need to heal a little bit. Sana: Also some stitches like, don't mind me, but like I, you know, one day a week. Yeah. So came back one day a week and then in, so that was like all of May. I was here for one day a week and then in June is when I came back, like came back from maternity leave.So that was like three days a week. And then in May I'm just like trying to like build this back up like very slowly to like get ready for June. So we're like building back up. And then my hygienist, cause I hired a hygienist cause I hate h sorry, hygienist, but like, it's probably like for the benefit of my patients that everybody doesn't get a deep cleaning.Cuz if I see them, that's what they would get. Oh. Because it's I don't have the hands of an angel. So. . I have a hygienist against all the things that everybody says for startups, you don't need it, do your own hygiene, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Anyways, I got a hygienist, so literally as I'm like recovering from birth giving, she gives me her notice cuz she's like, Hey.Yeah, right. Freaking heartland. She was like, Hey Doc, like I need benefits and this Heartland office is gonna like give me medical insurance for my kid. And I was like, you know, like I respect that. Mm-hmm. and I like, can't be mad at you for it. So thank you for the couple of days that you gave me. Good luck.I'll send you your W2 next year. And, uh, how many Michael: employees at this time have you had? Sana: okay. I feel like I have a lot of employees. Again, another topic for another day because against all startup things, I think I have like, I'm like, just like way overstaffed, but like in a good way. How many do you have right now?Oh my God. Okay. Lemme count. I'm my office manager, Diana. I have my treatment coordinator who is like double serving as my assistant right now because long story short, my assistant quit last week, so that was kind of cool. Anyways, so my treatment coordinator Casie, so it's two.Mm-hmm. . Then I have my hygienist, three, I have my life assistant. That's a whole other topic for another Michael: life assistant you said? Yes. Okay. And she works at the practice? Sana: Yeah, she does like things for me here and then she would like do things for me, like all the errands that I would need to do, like all like a bunch of like admin stuff that like, it's not like office manager stuff, it's just like more like me stuff, but like, I just like responding to emails and like she runs my social media and like just that kind of stuff.Okay. But now since last week we've had a lot of changes, so now she's at the front desk, so she's. receptionist also now. Okay. She's like, my life is slash office receptionist. That's four. And then I have a nurse practitioner because I'm also a med spa. So that's a whole other topic. Yes. So five. And then my nurse practitioner has a medical assistant, so that's six.Michael: Okay. So you have six employees in total. Why'd you decide to become a med spa? How did you like H? How's that coming along? The med spa Sana: part? Oh my god. It's like a whole other story. Okay. Okay. So we'll back up. So when I was making this like concept, right? Mm-hmm. , people hate the dentist. People love the spa.So I was like, oh yeah, like we'll make this like dental experience, very spa-like that was like the goal spa-like dental experience. So then I'm doing my branding and all this stuff, so I'm like, oh yeah, dental studio and spa. So like in my head when I'm like, it's a spa dental studio. There's aromatherapies, you get fuzzy blankets, you get noise canceling headphones.Like all the millennial stuff, right? Like all the millennial things. Yeah. And that's what, that's what it was in my head. And then I started like doing all this, like marketing and stuff and people are like, so what's the spa? And I'm like, it's the fuzzy blanket. and this. Branded Chapstick, Oh, you wanted a facial? Yeah. I don't have that. Sorry. Oh, Michael: okay. Sana: Oh, you want a massage? Yeah, we don't do those here. Sorry. that's how it started. I was like, okay, so people are respecting a spa, like, okay, sounds good. So like, eight months pregnant, opening a scratch startup, and people want a freaking spa.So I'm like, what the heck? What? So I had like, I have four, I had four empty ops. Cause so my office has seven ops. I got equipment for three, and then I had four empty ones. I was like, all right, we're gonna rent one of these out to an esthetician. There you go. Wesley Chapel, here's your facial. Come and get one.There you go. Yeah. , I rented it, I rented out a room to an esthetician and then, so that was whatever, like, I'm, I wasn't like really in charge of anything. Like she did her own thing. It was just like rented space. And I was like, oh, thanks for like the $500 for my super expensive rent. Yeah. Put that Michael: towards that as one.Wait real quick. Put a timeout. How much is Sana: rent? Oh my God. Stop. We really wanna know. It's like $8,000. Michael: How many, how many ops do you have? Seven. Are they all plumbed and, oh, okay. Sana: But that's just my rent. Like I'm just paying this guy to pay his mortgage. Michael: Was there any free rent? Six months. What was your tie?Sana: Allowance?Oh my god. What was it? 72,000. Not a lot of thousands. Not Michael: enough . Not a lot of thousands. I'm looking to be a millionaire. Not a thousandaire. What is wrong with that man? Like, what is Sana: this? I was like, dude, I was like, I'm signing a 15 year lease, 15 years. I was like, the baby that's in my stomach will be 15 years old.Oh yeah. Like he'll be getting his license. That's how long this lease is. Okay, thank you. Michael: So here's showing 2000. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So un paused back to the, the spot. Sana: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then I got the esthetician and then people were getting facials and that was cool. And then I was like, oh, I wanna do Botox and fillers and like I had taken a course for it, but I'm the type of person, like I'm a perfectionist, like, I don't wanna do it.but I know people want Botox and fillers. I kind of nervous, so I got a nurse practitioner. I was like, ah, like one day a week, just like, come, like, Botox these people up. Mm-hmm. , we started doing that. And then I guess like all the laser reps in the United States, just, I, I don't, I don't understand, like, do they have like a, oh, this person advertised that they do Botox.Let's go attack them with our sales rep, Venus Literally they would like just, they would just show up. They would just show up at the front desk. this is before my therapist taught me that I have to put boundaries. Okay. So like, I've, I've done a lot of therapy in my life. Hang out again.Michael: Pause you going, you going to therapy? Hell yeah. What, when did you start going? Sana: So I was in therapy before When I went through like all the oh my god, there's like so much you don't know about me, but , , there's a lot. I just met you right now. just met me.There's so much you don't know about me. But, so I went through like all this stuff, like in high school, like in college, whatever, like teen mom, like okay, like all this like traumatic, traumatic stuff, right? So like, just like a synopsis, like I'm a survivor of like domestic abuse and sexual assault, right?So like that's like a lot of my traumas. And so I was going to therapy before, but I was like lying in therapy and like just F y I, if you lie in therapy, it doesn't work. So I was lying in therapy and it didn't work very well. So I stopped going to therapy and then I restarted therapy last year maybe.Yeah, I started restarted therapy last year and now I have this really awesome therapist who's like a mom therapist. and she just like understands like working moms. Anyways, Michael: my therapist what, real quick, what made you want to start therapy? Sana: as you can tell, I have the brain of a squirrel and I have a lot of things I need to talk about.And my husband doesn't understand anything about dentistry. He also doesn't understand anything about owning a business. He also is not a mom. And I just like, I basically talk to patients. I talk to my staff, I talk to my kids, I talk to my husband and that's it. I was like, I need an outlet.Like also I have all of these like negative coping mechanisms and I have zero boundaries, so I literally gotta get my together. negative coping mechanism is basically like, , I'll just like let people just do whatever and I like, don't, I just like, I'm like, OK, sounds good. Like I'm very like PE people pleaser. Even if I'm like, no, like I don't wanna do that. Like, or I'm like always just like preparing for the worst. So like, I'll be like in this like really great like celebratory moment and I'm like, I need to prepare for like the apocalypse.And it's like, dude, we're literally just eating Taco Bell. Can you relax? Yeah. And well, no I can't, I can't celebrate this Mexican pizza comeback right now. . I'm afraid that the Mexican pizza will also then be taken off the menu. So the Michael: Mexican pizza combo, , it didn't get taken off. Didn't it again? Or, I dunno.It's Sana: not taken off. Okay. Then it came back and now. , I'm supposed to celebrate this comeback of the Mexican pizza, but in my head I know that they will take it away again. Michael: Okay, . So those are the negative coping mechanisms. What I mean, ok, I Sana: get you, I get you Like very, more like dramatic, like other types of things, but that's just like me trying to again, like deflect and make something a joke, like that's another negative coping mechanism.I just make all this serious stinky stuff a joke all the time and I'm like, it's, it's fine. It's ok. It's ok. I like, you know, like that meme where it's like everything's on fire around Michael: other guy. Like, it's fine. This is fine. This is fine. Sana: It's, it's fine. Yeah. That's like me as a person. Michael: Okay. Okay. Okay. So un pause, fast, fast forward back Sana: to the, the med spa and the laser reps and having no boundaries.Like, I would be like, oh yeah, if somebody wants to like, come talk to me, like, yeah, just let them know. Whatever. Right? So I'm like getting pulled out of the operatory. They're like, oh, doc, so and so wants to talk to you, so and so called for you. And I'm like, oh, cool. Ok. And I'm like, wait, I can't talk to all these people.Like I just, I can't do it. And I'm also really bad at saying no. So somehow these guys come in, then they convince me with all their sales preppiness that I need a Morpheus machine. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. I wanna get rid of my double G. So, you're right. Let's get a amorphous, it's fine. Let's do it.Okay. That's a lot of thousands of dollars. Okay. Sounds good. Did you get it? Yeah, I, I got it. Michael: Man, their sales preppiness is good. Huh? Sana: Or my boundaries are lacking. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Michael: Like that's true. You could have just been so looking at IT app, but what have you improved that or what, what's going on with Sana: that?Yeah. No, I've improved it. I stopped buying stuff. I've been cut off, so I'm not buying things anymore. Mm-hmm. , but I've also. . I was just, I just was looking like, where is, how is society going? Like what's like on the up and on, the up and up and it's med spas that is on the up and up, right?Mm-hmm. , everybody wants to be in aesthetics and cosmetics and this and that and whatever. And so I'm like, all right, well people are expecting a spa, so we're gonna make it a freaking spa and we're gonna become a med spa. Like, that's it. We're doing it. I don't wanna be like, oh yeah, come get your facial.Like, no, you can go down to the salon suite down there. Go get your facial over there. Mm-hmm. , we have lasers here. We have a medical director that's this, this person is the medical director. Like we do medical things here. So it just like was a really quick, like all of a sudden it started as Botox and fillers.Then all these reps are coming in and they're like telling me about all this like, cool stuff. And I'm like, wait, like why aren't we incorporating this? Like that just like makes natural sense, right? And then my practitioner, she used to work at another med spa, she had all that experience and I was, I was like asking her, I was like, well, what could we do to like build this side of the office?&

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍In this episode, Dr. Tom Orent, gives us a behind the scenes view of his 20, 20, 20, new patient exam process. Dr. Orent notes that there are 3 main rules when talking to a asymptomatic patient and discussing treatment:‍Don't take too much of their time.‍Don't take too much of their money.‍Don't hurt them.‍It's important to remember that new patients will most likely be sensitive to all three of these points when undergoing treatment or treatment planning. Dr. Orent recommends a more gentle approach when immediate attention isn't required. He takes his patients through phases rather than overloading new patients with worries of payments, time, and pain. Phase one of Tom's 20, 20, 20, process involves the lower ticket items that the patient needs, and eases into later phases with more comprehensive treatment.‍Listen in for more tips from Dr. Tom Orent on higher treatment conversion rates, happier patients, and profitability.‍You can reach out to Tom Orent here:‍Tom's 4-Step System to Safely Withdraw From PPOsPPO Exit Facebook Group‍Other Mentions and Links:‍Gordon ChristensenPete DawsonJohn KoisFrank Spear‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Tom. So talk to us about patient retention. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with this? . Tom: looking at new patient retention, uh, it, it's critical, but before we get into how to do it, let's talk about why you'd wanna do it.Mm-hmm. , why is it so important? Why is it critical? Let's say a healthy new patient flow for a GP is 25 or 35, let's say per month. So I dunno, about 400 patients, new patients a year, The average lifetime value of a new patient in a, in a general practice is over $6,200. So that's a lot of money.Lifetime value for each one who comes in and. . if you could only increase new patient retention, let's say just by 20%, that's 80 more patients a year who are with your practice times, however many years are gonna be there. That one year. Those 80 patients, the average lifetime value multiplied out, you're looking at just shy of 500,000.That's a half million dollars increase in the value of the practice over a few years. So we're gonna talk about something that I call the twenty twenty twenty new patient exam. Uh, before I get into detail on how to. , let me tell you who this is not for, cuz it's really important that I make this clear even before I tell you who it's not for, we're talking about the most common kind of patient, the asymptomatic, no symptoms comes into the office.I think everything is just fine. I'm just here for a cleaning and a checkup. if the patient has an emergency, if the patient has a broken tooth, if the patient says I need a mile reconstruction, that's a different. what we're talking about today is retaining the vast majority of the highest likelihood of the patient coming in, and those are the people who say, yeah, I think I'm just fine.All right, so who, this is not for, if you have the gift that Gordon Christensen or Pete Dawson or John COIs or Frank Spear or, or any of those guys where they can just meet a new patient who has no symptoms, thought everything was fine, sees that they really do need massive work, and within, you know, a short period of time on that first.You're able to get across to the patient, the relationship, the trust, and get them to say yes to let's say, you know, 20, 30, 40,000. Case, then this is not for you. Now, I would say that the vast majority of us, I certainly am not in the category of being able to do that with an asymptomatic patient who walked in and said, yeah, I'm great.I'm fine. I don't need anything. all right, so this is for everybody else. what you wanna do is you wanna make sure that you're not scaring away. The new patient by telling 'em everything that they need immediately when they told you already that they think everything is fine, that they don't have any symptoms.and by the way, I mentioned Pete Dawson. I loved Pete. Uh, he wrote the forward of one of my books, and so I went through all of his courses and, and I learned everything. And clinically, it was amazing. . The problem is I came back into my office after two years of those courses and, and I was much better clinically, but when I tried to do what he said as far as case presentation went, and, you know, going through the whole thing with a brand new patient.not too long into this, Isabel, my office manager takes me aside and she hands me this big legal pad with a bunch of names on it, and I said, what's that? She said, uh, do you recognize these names? I said, no. I said, who are these? . She said, exactly. She said, those are all the new patients who came in once you presented massive cases and they ran out the back door.and she handed me this thing. I was like, whoa. I had no idea. So she didn't know how to fix it. I didn't know how to fix it, but I knew I had a problem. Mm-hmm. . And the problem was I was using great clinical skills, but when I came to the presentation, I was trying to do the, Dawson Pinky presentation and say, this is everything you need.There was no trust, there was no relationship. . So over the years I did a lot of trial and error and I figured out a way to get by this, and I came up with three rules. So four your docs out there. If you're writing anything down at all, write down these three rules. This is for the asymptomatic brand new patient when you meet them.Number one is don't take much of their time, so a treatment plan that requires them to come back 5, 6, 8, 10 times over the next several months. , it's already gonna be too much Friction don't take much of their money. So if the out-of-pocket is, you know, under a thousand dollars, that's fine. But if the out and if five, six, $700, that's all good.But if the out-of-pockets gonna be 4, 5, 6, 8, 10,000 or $15,000, again, you're putting in stress in a relationship that doesn't need to be there yet, and you can retain that patient. If you don't do that at that point, I'm gonna tell you how to do that right now. Number three is don't hurt. Now you may be thinking, Tom, why would I wanna hurt a pa?Well, you don't wanna hurt anybody, but you especially can't hurt a new patient. Cuz if you do, they're gone. So those are the three rules. what you do is you develop what I would call a phase one treatment plan, but you don't mention to the patient that it's a phase one treatment plan initially. this is where the rubber meets the road.All you're doing is developing your phase one. If we were back in dental school, they wouldn't have you treatment plan an asymptomatic patient from beginning to end or any patient symptoms or otherwise. They wouldn't have you treatment plan the entire patient. You would do our first phase and then get that under control, whatever.So kind of back to the roots a little bit. Now, what could be in that phase where phase one plan that won't take more than a few visits, won't take much of their money and won't hurt them, won't take much of their time. . All right. You could do whatever's needed, but you could do perio phase one, deep scaling and root planning.Let's say you found some pit fisher and groove composites that were needed. You could do those. Let's say the patient requested whitening. Okay, that's fine as well. this is some examples, but it's low cost, low impact, nothing major. Not gonna scare 'em, not gonna take much of their time or money.So that's a phase one. . Now, let's say you're looking in their mouth and you see that their posterior teeth have all these wide open margins on th 30 year old amalgams, and you pro probably have recurrent carries and frack, whatever. Mm-hmm. . How can you not tell them that? How can you just do a plan and tell them everything's great other than this?Well, you can't, that wouldn't be ethical at all. So I had to bridge that gap and figure out a way to present something to them that would be easy, but at the same time would be ethical and, just be honest. So the way that I did that and the way that I recommend doing. Let's say you're just about done with your phase one plans.you've actually presented it and she said, yeah, that's fine. Just a couple visits and not much money. So she is, that's fine. Then I would say, Mrs. Jones, I see that you have a number of old Mercury silver fillings in the back teeth and they look like they were done quite some time ago.Is that right? And she would say, well, yeah, they were those redundant as a kid. Now, you know, she's thinking that you're gonna say that you need all this work in the back and, you know, crowns. And she's thinking, oh my God, not this. I hope I don't need all this work. don't even know this guy. These teeth feel fine.Nobody ever told me I need anything back here. I let her think what she wants to think. But I finish up this sentence with, I made a note in my record, and by the way, I did make a note in my record. Mm-hmm. , so I case noted this. I said, I made a note in my record that in the not too distant future, I'd like to have you back for a more complete and thorough evaluation of those back teeth, just so that we don't miss anything important.Would that be okay? And of course she's gonna say, yes, she's, you know that, that's all fine. She's not gonna say no to that. And so now she's happy. Cuz at this point all I've done is that little phase one plant and I. After we finish this first phase that we've just discussed, I'd like to have you back for more complete and thorough evaluation.So now I've told her that this is a first phase, that I've not done a comprehensive exam, that I've not at all addressed all of the back things that we're looking at with all those big silver fillings, but that I do, and I might even mention to her, I do see some areas where, the filling itself isn't as tight against the tooth as it used to be, and it's letting things leak in there.So that is something I'd like to take a look at, just so that we don't miss anything really important. Then I go through that first phase. She accepts it. You're gonna get really high acceptance of that. Again, to be clear, this is not a patient who came in with. a fracture, an abscess, um, or telling you that they need a massive amount of work, those patients know they need it.I would move forward with whatever you think is appropriate at that time with that patient. Mm-hmm. , but because there's no relationship and there's no trust without relationship. and because the patient came in presenting saying, I have no problems. I think I just need a cleaning and a checkup. And that's your classic bread and butter patient who does need a bunch of work.so we don't wanna scare 'em away. 95% of my new asymptomatic patients were really happy and they stayed with me and they came back and then we did the next phase evaluations. not only credible, because you're telling the truth, um, but it's something where when they come back, it's already a seed in their mind that they know that there's other stuff to do and they're happy that you didn't talk about it before.you and I talked a little bit before we started that, um, really, I mean, the big 800 pound gorilla in the room is insurance. I mean, we're not gonna get into insurance today, maybe another time, but, but the big 800 pound gorilla is insurance. Why? Because. The vast majority of gps in the United States are mired in PPOs, and I was, I mean, I had that in my practice.My dad had it in his. and it was what was killing me. and it took me about two years to develop a system, a strategy to get out of those PPOs. But I did it. So I went a hundred percent fee for service. And then when my dad was dying of cancer, he asked me to take over his practice and help my mom out financially, cuz all he had was debt.He had nothing put away as in zero, no life insurance, nothing. Mm-hmm . It took my wife and me about two and a half years in that practice, the Worcester practice to get 13 out of his 15 plans gone and make it a very profitable practice as well. . And so I had mentioned, uh, earlier that, uh, what, what, what I have available for your listener is it's a, uh, free special report.It's called a four Step System that dentists use to safely and predictably withdraw from PPOs and increase net profit. So if your folks would like that, they can get it right where you see over my shoulder. , www dot ppo fo and foe is F oe, so ppo fo.com. And that's, um, that's about it. I, I, I hope that covered it Well, not for Michael: you.No. Yeah, that was fantastic, Tom. I appreciate it. And then we'll, play all that in the show notes below, but real quick, I wanna rewind a little bit to where we talk about, don't take too much of their. The three steps don't take too much of their money. So there's three Tom: rules. Yeah, there's three rules.Rule number one is don't take too much of their time. And what I mean by time is the number of visits. Imagine that you're the new patient, you don't have any symptoms. You presented to a doctor and you said, I'm just here for a checkup or a regular physical, whatever, they tell you you need to come back for a series of additional tests and treatments and and time outta work and whatever.When you thought that there was nothing wrong and even. Maybe you just moved from another town and your previous dentist, who you were with for 20 years who you loved to death told you you were in good shape. again, to just to be clear, and I know I've said this a couple times, but it's important. This is not the patient who has a fractured tooth abscess emergency needs, uh, or massive reconstruction, and they know it and they present that to you that I need this all fixed.This is the patient who thinks everything is just fine. And that's a lot of the patients we see today. So that was rule number one, is not a lot of time number. don't take much of their money, and I don't have an exact number, but I used to keep it well under a thousand dollars, so it might be three, four, $500 maximum.And then they have some insurance that kicks in, you know, for part of it. Uh, but, but not much out of their pocket. Number three is don't hurt 'em. And, um, again, not to be facetious, we don't wanna hurt anybody, but, but especially with a brand new patient. I mean, if you inject them for the first time and you're doing a small filling or whatever it is you happen to be doing, or your, your perio phase.and you hurt them, they're not coming back. I mean, there's a lot of dentists out there who'd be happy to, you know, treat them and do it, uh, in a very comfortable manner. So you just have to be extra, extra kind and careful to make sure that none of that happens and you'll retain a very high level of your, uh, very high percentage of your new patients.It's wonderful, man. I Michael: like the, how you broke that down with the phases too, how you kind of do it all in a slow type of growth, right? But you're building that, but you said you're building that relationship, that trust, but you. Establish the foundation with the relationship first. Right. And I feel like sometimes we just wanna hurry up and, And get Tom: that in there. Well, the, the funny thing is when my office manager in the Framingham office, Isabel, when she handed me that, that, um, notepad, it was a legal pad. Mm-hmm. . And it had pages and scrolled of handwritten names. I was like, what is this? She said, exactly.You don't know who these people are, do you? She said, I said, no. I said, Isabel, what's your point? Get, get to the point she, . Every one of those on those three or four pages is a new patient who you did the long form, you know, full exam and comprehensive treatment planning and so forth. All asymptomatic patients, all patients who came in saying, I, I think I'm fine.I just need a cleaning and a checkup. And you told them they need 10 50 and 2030, what? Whatever you saw, and you were probably right, but you blew them all out the back door and, and again, at that point, We didn't have a solution, so I knew I had a problem, but I didn't have a solution and it took me a couple years to develop what I call the twenty twenty twenty new patient exam for maximum new patient retention, and that's what we just discussed.Michael: Nice. Awesome. Tom, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find 'em on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly? Tom: First of all, there's pfo.com, which has my information when they download that.That'll have all my, my contact information in there, that special report. The other thing they could do is go to my Facebook group. The FA Facebook group is PPO O Exit. So it's a Facebook group and it's called PPO O Exit. Michael: Nice. So guys, make sure you downloaded the special report. Go on the show notes below.Everything's gonna be in the show notes below. Click on the links. And Tom, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning Marketing. Tom: Michael, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !‍‍‍Guest: Zhanna KonovalenkoBusiness Name: ZK Coaching LLCCheck out Zhanna's Media:‍LinkedInSign Up for Zhanna's Mailing List!‍Other Mentions and Links:Master Your Emotions - BookDale CarnegieNapoleon HillTony RobbinsMartha BeckLife Coach SchoolLife Coach School Podcast‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Taking action from a negative emotion will often result in a negative outcome!Look at the reasons BEHIND your money goals. Math is simple, but drama around money can be complex.If discipline is the only way to meet your goals, you may find yourself burning out!Tying your self worth directly to your work performance is a fast-track to negativity.Marketing your practice is about how you can help people, not how you can get more patients.Niching down your services when marketing will go a long way!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Dr. K, how's it going? ? Zhanna: Hi Michael, I'm doing amazing. How are you? Michael: I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking right now, where are you located? Zhanna: Uh, I'm in northern California on the peninsula. Uhhuh, and um, foster City. Michael: Okay, nice, nice. Awesome. So let's dive into it. Tell us a little bit about your past, your present. How'd you get to where you are? . Zhanna: Sure. It's, uh, it's a long, it's a long story . Mm-hmm. , but I try to make it short. So I am I'm a board certified orthodontist, but I'm also a dental coach. That is my main focus on my passion, is my coaching practice where I help busy doctors create a thriving work and life balance so they can succeed, uh, without burning out and the way I got there.So I'm a doctor and a coach. I am actually something that's called a foreign trained dentist. So I was born and raised, not in the United States. I was born and raised in the Ukraine. Uh, a country that sadly many people know more about now with what's going on there. and, uh, so I grew up there.my father is a dentist, so I come from a family of doctors. and when I was about 15, you know, I decided to go to dental school. back home, it was actually in, in Moscow, in the Ukraine, but I've always had. Two passions. I've always wanted to study abroad. I don't even know why , we didn't even have internet back then in the nineties, but I've always wanted to study abroad and I always had passion for, behavioral psychology, motivation.What makes people successful? Midway through dental school in Russia, I decide to move to Europe. So I turned 18 and on my own I moved to Prague, Czech Republic. That's where I finished my dental school. Five years in in Charles University in Prague. moved back to Russia opened a general dentistry practice with my father, who still practices there.Worked there for about a year and decided that I wanted to move to the United States. So 13 years ago I moved to the us learned the language went back to dental school. Your listeners who are foreign trained dentists would understand this track. If you are trained in another country, uh, other than the US as a dentist, when you move here, you have to get recertified, meaning you have to go back to dental school for a shorter number of years.It was two years for me. I went to University of Pacific here in California in San Francisco. And after that I decided to specialize in Orthodon. So I went to the residency on the East coast in Philadelphia, temple, and became an orthodontist. And after that I decided, nah, it's too cold. Moving back, , moved across the country again and have been practicing in Northern California since, since I graduated.Okay, nice. That's a little bit how I became a dentist or orthodontist. And like I uh, mentioned to you, my passion has always been. , what makes successful people? Successful. I've always been, listening to tapes when I was like, since I was in my teens and early twenties, you know, classics, Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Martha Beck and Tawny Robbins, you know, mm-hmm.people like that. I've always had it in my, in my ears, that helped me reach to where I am in my career. and when I was practicing as an orthodontist in California, I was in a very busy practice. where I saw close to 100 patients a day. And as you can imagine, it's, you know, you have to manage your mind really well to be successful and still have that work-life balance.Mm-hmm. . And that's where I stumble across life coaching. Like it's becoming more knowing now what coaching is, but still people are like, Hmm, my coach, what is it exactly? So I discovered life coaching. I hired my coach. She really helped me. have that entrepreneurial mindset rather than an employee mindset where I was able to take control over, just my life balance really.And then I decided to get certified. I spent a year becoming certified as a life coach through, it's called the Life Coach School. There's different type of schools, but that's where I got certified in 2018. And Fast forward opened my coaching practice mostly because people around me noticed that something has shifted in me.Mm-hmm. and my colleagues start reaching out, like, how are you so chill? You saw so many patients today. So I started coaching my friends who were also dentists. And then, when the pandemic hit, I just decided to go, full speed into coaching and started my business. It's called ZK Coaching. And uh, that's has become my main focus and my main. Michael: And you still have your ortho, like your practice, your Zhanna: orthodontic practice? Yes. I'm still a board certified orthodontist. Correct. But most of my focus right now is in my coaching practice. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So if you don't mind me asking, how many times do you practice clinically in Zhanna: like a month?It varies. It really varies depending on the demand. So it's really different month to month. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So let's rewind a little bit. Why did you decide to become an orthodontist? Go that. . Zhanna: Yeah. Such a good question. Why did I decide it? Because I had a teacher in dental school who believed in me, that I could Uhhuh,Let's fit it this way. Orthodontics seemed interesting, seemed different, you know, in general dentistry, uh, or in dental school, you're not exposed very much to orthodontics. As a general dentist, you do pretty much all of the procedures except orthodon. like root canals, surgical extractions, things that endodontics, root canal specialists focus on you doing dental school, some of it.So you get experience, extraction of wisdom teeth for example, or difficult extractions, so-called surgical extractions. You do the, in dental school, that's what oral surgeons do. You probably don't place implants, although it depends on the dental school. So you kind of get exposed to different pediatric dentists, right?Working with kids. You do that in dental school, so, You get exposed to all of the specialists except for orthodontics, you don't really move teeth. as a dental student. And I just remember peeking, in an orthodontic, residency, program at my school at U O P and thinking, wow, this is so cool.You know, there, it's just you can move teeth. Like what is happening right now from one side to another? That seemed like so futuristic. And I was like, I don't know, it's so competitive. Like, should I, should I not? And you know, one of my instructor, you know, basically was a life coach . Kind of type thing and said, yeah, you totally should, you know, like that little train I thought I could.So I did. Yeah. I just decided that would be very interesting. And I was always also drawn into aesthetic and like complicated cases. And I also thought as a woman who Had envisioned a path of having a family. You know, in the future I thought that my work, work-life balance would be better with orthodontics versus, for example, surgery.Although I'm sure there's oral surgeons who have work-life balance. But that's how I thought about it at that time. So that's why I decided to go the, the route of orthodontics. Okay, Michael: nice. So then fast forward a little. and you decided to hire a coach. I mean, you've always been interested in like motivation, what makes successful people successful, like you said.Yeah. But where was the moment where you were like, I need something. This can't continue to happen like this? What? What was that like? Zhanna: Yeah. Let me see when it was, I think it was 2017, I think I was at the gym. I almost remember that. And I was running on the treadmill as many, many successful people, you know, work out to, not just be in shape, but like be in mental shape, right?Mm-hmm. . And I just remember running on the treadmill and thinking, I am still thinking about my patients. Like I am still constantly reliving all these cases and like, Like, I just want a break. . Mm-hmm. , I don't have this break. Right. And, you know, I'm the kind of person who listens to podcasts when I work out, not so much music.I think I was looking for something like efficiency, productivity, you know, I was always interested in, how, how to be like, Top organizer. Mm-hmm. . Um, and the podcast came out, the Life Coach School Podcast. So I started listening to her and I was just blown away by the principals that she was talking about, that had to do with mind management around life, really everything. when I decided to hire her. And things that I had learned completely changed the way I looked at. Work and my goals and my personal life and, just where I was heading and how I was thinking about it, that really helped me be 100% present at work when I was at work and not take it home.So I think that was kind of like a pivotal moment for me where I honestly just ended up hiring a life coach and I didn't look for it. It wasn't like a thing, at least for me that I knew about. But it was truly a pivotal moment in my life and career, obviously. Mm-hmm. since I became a life coach, that changed everything for me.Yeah, Michael: cuz that's super common, Jon, where like you're. , at night, you're thinking about work in the morning, you're thinking about work on your vacation, you're thinking about work. You know, it's just like life of an entrepreneur. So yeah. How did that change, especially when you're looking at goals, because if you, you're taking a flight right, to your vacation and you're like, you're thinking about new goals, you're, you're creative and you're like, oh man, I'm excited about this.Is that a good thing or a bad? Zhanna: I think it depends how you look at it, right? So if you're looking at it in a way that's disempowering you, that's probably not a good thing because whenever you take action from a negative emotion, you're not going to create a favorable outcome. Most of the time you really don't.So the way it, the live designed it actually, which is great because in order for you to hit your goals, you have to like what you're doing. You have to enjoy the process. You know how they always. Not about the destination, it's the process. Mm-hmm. , it really is, meaning any lofty goals requires a lot of action over a prolonged period of time.In order to do that, there's only two ways. One is through self-discipline, which we all know. One, it's hard. Second of all you, that's how you get burned out, right? You take a lot, a lot of action, and you're like forcing yourself. Verse is way number two. is when you enjoy the process, and then it's a pool, right?You're pulling yourself towards your goal. So you may be thinking about it when your plane is taking off, but you're thinking about it in an inspiring and empowered way, and that will propel you to take more productive, massive action and feel good. Michael: Gotcha. So can you gimme an example then, like on how we can utilize this?So, I mean obviously a lot of us are like, I wanna have goals to like, you know, reach a million by the end of the year on collections or whatever. Right. Is that something like you would say, yeah, you should add that in your life, like goals coaching or is it more like be content with 800,000 and you have the freedom and.you know what I mean? Kind of thing like Zhanna: that. Yeah, yeah. I see what you're saying. Mm-hmm. , um, the way I approach it, and that's definitely a topic that I coach McClue a lot on, so I always tell them, especially when it comes to the revenue goals, the money goals, there is math and then there's drama. Math is simple. Drama is what I help you with as a life coach. Mm-hmm. , for example. Let's say you make a million dollars in revenue, as a general dentist a year, and you really want to make two for whatever reason. So we would first dive in. Why do you wanna make two? Totally fine. It kind of goes back to how you said, should you be content?Like your reason, if you want to make 2 million just because Dr. Jones next door is making two, and you feel bad about yourself, this is probably not a strong enough reason for you to do what it takes to get to 2 million. Mm-hmm. . But if it's because you just want. That's a good enough reason, or you want to be able to impact more people in your community.That's a good reason. Maybe it's because you want a different lifestyle for yourself or your or your family. Do you feel good about it? That's a good enough reason. So we'll start with the reason why you want it. If you like your reason, then the rest is just math. This is what I coach my clients on. Okay, you wanna make 2 million?In a year, then tell me, we reverse engineer the result. How many weeks a year do you want to work? So let's say you wanna take two months off a year. Okay? 52 months minus eight is 44 weeks. You will be working that year. How many days a week do you wanna work? See, people don't think about that. How many weeks, uh, days of a week do you wanna work?Okay, I wanna work four days. That's the typical for general dentist. Okay. So then, That means, I think it's something around 178 days if I do my math. Math right. And then you just divide 2 million by the number of days that you're gonna work. So then you have the production goal that you need to make per day.I think it's gonna be something around $11,000, 11 and a half thousand dollars. And now when you look at that number, that helps you now narrow down, okay, how much should I. What kind of procedures should I focus on? Who will be my target market that I'm going to attract? How will I brand myself to attract that target market?And what is the value that I'm producing that they will actually want? And then you just do the rest. Michael: Gotcha. I mean, it sounds easy, Zina by like you've seen it, right? Like a lot of us aren't doing it like that, or something happens. What happens where it. Maybe we do the reverse engineering. We make it happen, but then I guess life happens, right?Like, I don't know, oh my gosh, an unexpected pregnancy, or, oh my gosh, I'm getting something happen, a natural disaster. I don't know. Things like that, right? Mm-hmm. , is that what, where the burnout comes or where does that come? Zhanna: Yeah. You know, I, the way I see it is, and the way I coach my clients is that something happens is the, Your brain talks to you or behaves to stop you from getting that goal.See, I always explain to people in a very, Basic way that we have two types of brains. We have our primitive brain that just wants to keep us safe, right? Everyone says to protect us from pain, give us pleasure and keep us condensing energy. And then we have this higher brain that is capable of planning and, you know, setting goals.So when you set your revenue goals and you do the math and you decide you know what you need to do that's here using your higher. . But then when you say life happens, like some circumstance happens, you get pregnant or, I dunno what other examples you gave me. You don't feel like it, or, staff members quit.Your marketing person goes on, I don't know, something, right? Mm-hmm. , these things happen. Our brain, our primal brain kicks in and our primals brain's only job is to keep us from taking action. It does not want us to. because the safest thing to do is to stay like in bad undercovers, watch Netflix and eatingIt's the safest way. Yeah, yeah. Right. Don't put yourselves into harm's ways. So you always go to your default unless you manage your brain. I mean, unless you manage the messages that are literally popping all these sentences every day in your brain. So when people say live happens, I always help them make it more specific, because live happens is very vague. Mm-hmm. . And when something is very vague. We can't solve for it. For it. There's no fixing, there's no solving. Life just happens. But when I coach clients and we narrow down exactly what happened, then there's always a solution. For example, you said pregnancy happens. . Okay, so I would ask my client, what do you make it mean?What does that mean that you're pregnant? And there's always some sort of a story that their primal, like that scared brain is telling them, oh, I won't be able to work, or I will get tired, or maybe I'll be sick, or all these things. And I always like to say, okay, let's write a whole list of obstacles and then we're gonna turn them into.That's what life coaching does. Unlike a consultant, it doesn't tell you what to do. It's not just about like steps or strategy, because those don't always work unless you have, unless your mind is there, right? Mm-hmm. Coaching helps you tap into your own resourcefulness so that you can figure out very quick and clear ways to solve solutions.So, in case of a pregnancy, or let's say half of your staff quit . Mm-hmm. . Okay, so neutral circumstance. Let's figure out all of the obstacles right now. Let's say there's nobody tomorrow to like open the office, how we gonna solve it? But if you just say life happened, you can't solve for that. You see? See what I'm saying?Mm-hmm. , when you're like really narrowed down, become extremely specific, anything can be solved. God. Michael: So you like hyperfocus on the situation kind of thing, right. Zhanna: Instead of you always have to, because brain just likes to throw hands up in the air and say it can't be done. Mm-hmm. . And you have to zoom back in and say, well, what exactly are we talking about here?Gotcha. Kinda like going back to the basics. Michael: So can you gimme. An example and also like a really good definition of what burnout is exactly. Sure. Cause you feel like sometimes we're like, I'm just burnout. But it's like, are you tired or are you like still, I feel like sometimes I can, you know, you can work all day and you feel still excited and happy, but that's not burnout, so, or is it?I don't know. Zhanna: Yeah. Good question. So a true, true burnout. , like a combination of mental and physical state where you are at a point where you literally cannot get out of bed, right? You are just so down. You have zero energy, you're completely exhausted, and you can barely move around like your environment, And it has three stages of the burnout, first stage. So it's not like you wake up and. Literally burned out like a match. Mm-hmm. , the stages are typically first you feel very low energy. You're very tired, you're constantly exhausted. You're having these perpetual thoughts like, oh, another day at the office, right?Like mm-hmm. You're looking at the clock and you're thinking, oh my God, another hour, another patient. Right? Stuff like that. Then there's that second stage. You becoming, it's called depersonalization where you become very cynical, right? Where you like look at your schedule and let's say you say, oh, is my 4:00 PM here yet?Like, you don't call people even by their names, right? You call them by a time, right? Or like, did that crown prep show up or are they running late? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. , you're deep like you are taking the person, like a person out, like you're grouping together, your patient, your person with.the procedure that you're doing all the time slot, whether a schedule, and then the last stage is where you are just constantly unsatisfied with your own achievements. Like nothing you do is good. You're self critic. You know, we all have that inner voice that's self-critical. That's always like, oh, I should have said this, or My hair was wrong, or, I should have changed the angle on the video or something like that.Yeah. That critic becomes so loud that you just can't stop. You're not happy with anything you do. It would look like, you know, oh, I should have cleaned the cement more around that crown that I prepped. Oh, my stitches were not great after that surgery or for orthodontist. I didn't finish with a great overbite.I could have created a better orgen for that patient, but that's for every single person. So you. Extremely self-critical of yourself, of others, and that mental state becomes psychosomatic, meaning so many thoughts, negative thoughts, start affecting your body so that you physically have no energy and you cannot.almost get out of bed. You can barely function. That is a true burnout and that is something where life coach cannot help you. You know, you have to see a psychologist, psychiatrist, you might need even medication therapy. If you're a non, if you're non-functional as an individual in a society, life coaching is not the best option for you.You can work together, you know, with a therapist and a life coach. But that's something you wanna address first. What you were talking about. You know how people say, oh, I'm so burned out, you know, I'm feeling like I'm burning out. That's not true. Burnout, it's pre burnout, but nobody really calls it pre burnout.So I usually tell people I'm a burnout coach. Mm-hmm. . And then when I do consultations with clients, that's when I determine are they in true burnout or are they, are they in pre burnout? , but if somebody can get on a call with me, they're probably not burned out. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. , like they're functioning, they're walking.They could press the button. . Yeah. So the Iron Am Burnout, uh, phrase that's been thrown out there regularly, is typically like a mental state which has several characteristics typically, uh, you. Pre burnout, when you do a lot of work, a lot more work to get somewhere. So in other words, you are not hit like you.You have your goal, you want to make certain amount of money, or you want to produce 10 podcast episode a month because you wanna have this rating and you don't see that rating. So you start producing more and more and more. And so like you're taking so much action and it's not rendering the result that you want.but all this action has an effect on your mentality and your physical body. So you are getting in this pre burnout state and those qualities that lead to that is typically perfectionism. So people who, hold themselves to unrealistic standards. Right. This we can be perfect. Yeah, it's impossible.But perfectionists, they understand that intellectually, but they're like, yeah. I'm gonna try . Yeah, right. Close as possible. I know, I get it. I understand you cannot be perfect, but I'm really gonna try. Mm-hmm. , and that's what sets you up for failure. So perfectionistic mentality, people pleasing, and a lot of the, that's a big one, especially for dentists.we are trained to follow these protocols, to cut this perfect class to cavity or have this perfect class one molar. You know, when we finish an Orthodon case, Like we are literally trained to be micro-focused on a perfect outcome really, and that permeates your life and your personality. So it's really hard to separate what you do at work.Like Sure, strive to do your best is different than strive to be perfect because it's unattainable and it leads you to. Extra amount of action that you're just literally spinning the wheels and not moving in a productive way towards your goal. And that creates burnout, right? Okay. So perfectionism be, uh, people pleasing, which kind of like a side effect of perfectionism where, you know, you wanna do your best and you have these unrealistic expectations of what you can achieve.And so when patients come into you, you wanna acc, acc accommodate them no matter what, because you're tying in your self worth to your work, right? In other words, you are thinking, you know, I'm a good doctor if I can help every patient. I'm a good doctor. If the patient leaves me a good yield purview, right?Like you're tying in your self worth to your. , and these are two separate things. And when you do that, then you wanna please everyone, right? Because you want them to say, oh, you're so great. Thank you, doctor. You're amazing. You're the best. I'm gonna write you a yield review, which has nothing to do with you as a person.And that has everything to do with the service that you provide. But the service cannot be perfect because it's impossible. So you're becoming unrealistic with what you're promising to your patients. And when you cannot meet what you had promised them, you start pupil pleas. , you know what I'm saying?Mm-hmm. . And that just leaves you feeling icky because it's unauthentic. You know, you start going oh yes. You know, Mr. Smith, you came, for the third time this week without an appointment. That's okay. We're gonna squeeze you in. You know, you came an hour late for your appointment. Oh, that's okay.We're, we're going to squeeze you in. because you are afraid that if you don't, Mr. Smith will get so upset and maybe throw a tantrum or write you about, you'll review or I don't know, scr at your staff and something like that. So you're not setting these healthy boundaries mm-hmm. that these patients really need.You know, boundaries is another big component, because you don't understand your Owen, limitations as a clinician and, and as a person. and then the last one is, it's a personality who's highly self, self-critical. , you know, low self-esteem. Mm-hmm. , people who are like, have a lot of self doubt.which sadly happens in a lot of women dentists. Which has to do with the way we're socialized. You know, men and women are socialized a little bit differently, so we're not as assertive as men and we tend to be more, more looking within ourselves and criticizing ourselves. That's why there's so fewer women leaders in dentistry, especially, you know, who are stepping forward and leading the industry.So we tend to be more self-critical. So when you are. Perfectionist, expecting impossible things from you, and you are self-critical. No matter what you do, you find the flaws. Yeah. So you'll end up people pleasing because you want them to like you, and then at the end you feel just crappy because you're not showing up as yourself, you're not being authentic, and you can't deliver what you had promised.Which feeds even more being self-critical, you end up doing extra work. More and more miles for people who will never be pleased and you end up earning out. So it's Michael: like a, let me see if I got this right. So, so if you're being very self-critical mm-hmm. , you tend to, you said compensate with perfectionism.Yeah. Pretty much. Okay. Perfectionism and then that's impossible to reach. Right. Right. Be perfect. So then you tend to people please mm-hmm. and. If somebody gets upset, then you'd be so critical against, so it's like a little Zhanna: It's a it, it's a cycles. Exactly. So it's a rated cycle. Wow. Which forces you like the only solution that you're braining him up with, will I have to do more?And then you start doing more work. That's not necessarily a thought through work. Right. Like for example, , you just start accommodating all these patients who show up without an appointment. You start giving them discounts just because you want them to like you. Like it's completely defeating the goal of your revenue and what you're set to do.Mm-hmm. . Right? Which also ties in. You probably haven't thought about your brand and what's your positioning with these people, right? Cuz you're starting to mix your personality with your business . Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just start spinning the wheels, Throwing every, all the resources that you have and burning out, unfortunately.So then when people, you know, end up coming to me, we have to unpack all of this and go back to the basics, okay. What exactly success looks like for you at the office? What exactly does it look like for you at home? And let's make sure that your self-worth as a human has nothing to do with these two.Your self worth is. Your self-worth is Absolut. , there's nothing you can do or say that will make you more worthy or less worthy. So once you start with that, dealing with your business and your personal life becomes so much easier. See what I'm saying? Michael: Yeah. You're able to separate kind of the, the two.Mm-hmm. , uh, when it comes to, cause I think that's the hard part. I feel like a lot of times we, we don't separate it or we go through seasons, right? Mm-hmm. and I, I don't know, you can tell me if I'm wrong or not Jonna, but like sometimes I believe like. There's gonna be seasons where you're gonna have to work really hard, right?And it's gonna be like, mm-hmm. , I'm gonna do everything. And then there's seasons where you're like, yeah, we could watch Netflix today. Or, you know what I mean? We could relax and stuff like that. But there's hardly ever a moment where everything kind of just feels balanced, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. ? Zhanna: yeah, so you could do it this way. , but you could also a little bit even things out because a feeling of balance is a feeling that's created by your thoughts. So there's sometimes things in life where it's easier to do something and sometimes it's harder.Like for example, weight loss actually comes up a lot for my clients. Mm-hmm. . And you know, if it's I'm trying to think if it's September or August or September. It's easier for people to lose weight when, rather when it's end of October in November, in December, right? Mm-hmm. like the holiday spirit because of the environment.So people always say, oh my gosh, the holidays come in. There's no way I'm like, around all these food pushers. It's so much harder. So it's kind of like that rollercoaster that you described, that people think that it's easier to lose weight when. , they're not surrounded by holidays and cookies and, and Turkey and all that stuff, right?Mm-hmm. . But that's really your perception, your mindset, because if you created a sustainable goal for weight loss and how many pounds you wanna lose per month, and what are all the actions that will take you there, right? Like I'm gonna work out five times a day. I'm gonna walk 10,000 steps.I'm gonna drink 60 ounces of water. I'm going to be eating, you know, two meals. four ounces of protein and veggies like you, you become very specific, right? Then it doesn't matter. Then it's holidays. All you had to do is just manage your mind around, you know, I'm at a dinner table and my plan says to do this and, Mary here is passing a pumpkin pie.So you just have to manage your thoughts around. . I want it like a simple thought as I want it. That creates, right, like an urge for you. We think it's a fact. Like I want it means I should have it, right? Mm-hmm. . So it creates that rollercoaster effect. But if you level it out and you expect, remember that, I was telling you about obstacles and strategies, if you, anticipate all the obstacles that might happen, and the majority of obstacles really are our.How we're gonna think about what my mom says who baked a pie. She's gonna think that if I don't eat it, I don't love her. Yeah. It's not about, you know what I'm saying? Like we do these things to herself. Yeah. But if you explain to her, mom, I love you more than anything and I'm gonna have that pie tomorrow.But right now I'm just not hungry. Or I choose now to. , then it's gonna, it's gonna create a very different experience where you can equalize and balance out your effort when it's planned. Remember with that higher brain? Mm-hmm. , when you plan it out and then you manage your mind around it so that you don't have this mind drama, then you can just execute the math and everything becomes more balanced and playing field, so you don't have to go through up and down.Michael: Okay. Okay. Makes a lot of sense. Okay. I wanna ask you so much more about this stuff, but when we focus on like the business side of it, what can a dentist do today to improve their, their marketing and business with this? Zhanna: Yeah. So, as a dental coach, I think about marketing very differently than as a practitioner would.So the way I think about marketing is really you are telling people that you can help them. , that's all that marketing is. The majority of doctors think of marketing as a way to get new patients. Mm-hmm. . And when you think about, oh, I have to get people to come to my practice because my practice needs money or something like that.That's kind of like Anki way to think about it. No wonder they don't go in their, they don't take action. Mm-hmm. . Right. That's why. There's a lot of strategies on marketing out there. There's a lot of great advice, but unless you have the mindset of the person who gave, who gave you that advice, you're not likely to create the same result as their strategy promises.Mm-hmm. Right. Makes sense. Mm-hmm. ? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Makes sense. Because somebody will say, okay, let's go on social media right now. Social media is big. You have to market your practice on Instagram. They can even give you like the marketing strategy for Instagram. They're gonna say, this is what you're gonna do. You have to have a long PO post. A short post, a cur cell, a reel, and a testimony. . But if your mindset as a doctor is, oh, that sucks. I don't wanna do that. I'm, I'm, what is the reel? Even like, I am horrible on camera. Mm-hmm. , what kind of reels do you think they will create? Probably not the ones that will ex attract a lot of patients, right?Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you think about marketing is this is just me telling people that I can help them. Isn't that. You're just, your sign is open. I'm here open for you to come here and I'll help you. And I always look at it as a trifecta. So in order to be confident in telling people that you can help them, you need to believe in your product or service.You need to believe in your client or your patient, and you need to believe in yourself as a clinician. So let me give you an example for dentistry, you need to believe in your product. What services are you providing? What exactly is your dental practice doing? Are you a general dentist? Are you a specialist?I am a big proponent of having a niche. I really believe in nicheing down, and here's why I. . A lot of doctors are afraid to knee down because they are afraid that they will turn down, turn away. Some patients, right, they're, they want to attract everyone as much as possible, but if you market to everyone you attract no one buying behavior of people has changed, especially since the pandemic. People still want to buy the best product, but they also want to buy it from the best. Which means that their values need to align with yours or the other way around. Your values need to align with theirs. They want to know about you. Like for example, you, Michael, you help, practices with ground marketing, Uhhuh, , right? For marketing. And you do this by helping put the doctor's story in the forefront, create the website around their story that. The part of marketing where you connect with your customer, you tell them your story, right? You, this is your branding too.Like they need to resonate with your values and that's okay that some people will not like you, but then some people will love you and they're not gonna hesitate. They're gonna come and they're gonna bring their friends, That's how you create the brand. Recognition and loyalty. Like for example, when you think about Starbucks, what do they.Coffee, right? Mm-hmm. , like when you think coffee, you think Starbucks? Do they, do they sell sandwiches? Yeah. Do you go to Starbucks for sandwiches? No. Mm-hmm. . So by focusing on one thing, one niche coffee equals Starbucks, you will attract those people and then you can you know, increase, uh, or add other, products that you are, that you are selling or other, other, uh, services that you are providing because these people are already in.this is how it might look like for a dentist, you know, as a general dentist. And I think dentists also do that a lot. Like, marketing. I am a cosmetic dentist, right? I do just, just be the guy or the gal on the block who does amazing veneers. . It doesn't mean that you don't do rick nails and crowns and you know, fillings, but be known for that one thing.Don't be afraid to niche down and really get good at this because people wanna buy the best product, right? So believe, believe in your service what you're providing, be really great at it, or be like an aligner company. Uh, practice, right? Create the brand recognition, and that's what we'll. your clients. So it's number one, believe in your product or service.Number two is believe in your client. Really think that your patients want help. They want what you have to offer and what you have to offer will change their life for the better.Like really like zoom out. Don't just be a doctor who's diagnosing teeth and decay. Look how, what? What is the. The service that you will provide for them, the experience they you'll provide for them will have an effect on their life. So if you really believe that you have the best product, For that person that will benefit from having smile makeover or better bite or cavity free mouth and educated, about oral health so that they can educate their, uh, children and, you know, have a whole healthy family.The last pieces believe in yourself as a clinician. Mm-hmm. , you know, you need to em embrace and embody that you are the best person to help that patient. So when you, when all this trifecta is working, that's when you will market in the most efficient and the most confident way. Really, I have the best product.People want it, and I'm the best person to do that. For them to give that service, uh, to them. Now I just have to tell them I have to go meet people, tell them that I'm a dentist and make them offers to. . Yeah. So that's how I look about marketing. Michael: Okay. And I feel like a lot of the times we get kind of like, tunnel vision or, or maybe clouded with like, we just took out a huge loan, we opened up a practice and now we gotta get these new patients like as quickly and as possible.And we kind of, go really fast over these three things. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Zhanna: instead of sit down. Meditate. Yeah. That typically, that typically happens because that primal brain kicks in. Right? It's trying to keep you safe. Mm-hmm. , right? Because the primals brain's job is to. , make sure you don't take any action.So whenever these sentences pop in your head, oh, I just took out this practice loan, we have to make money. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to be an entrepreneur. You don't have to have a practice. You don't have to be a dentist, you don't have to get outta bed. You choose to now ask yourself, why do I choose to do that?Do you see? You feel like it's a little bit, it's a lot more empowering question to ask yourself. So that istalking to yourself this way and just be, be kind with yourself, you know? It's okay. It's just my conditioning. This is my habitual thinking is telling me about this loan and the pressure that I'm putting on myself and stuff like that. That's okay. Your opinion is noted, but I'm going to focus on. What actions can I take to actually efficiently, successfully get to my goal by serving people?That's, I think what's, doctors always often forget that you're not just there to, make money or diagnose cavities or extract decay teeth or straighten their teeth. You are there to serve people. How can you best serve people? Think about that. You know, or when. You are networking with other doctors for specialists.You know, they go network with general dentists. When you go to the networking event. There was I think it was like a study where they looked at 250 people who showed up to a networking event and they said everybody raised their hand who came here to sell something to another person? Everybody raised their hands all two 50, and they said, and now raise hands who came here to buy something?One person raised their hand. That's why people hate networking events, right? Yeah. Because we feel like this pressure like, oh, I have to sell myself or my practices or like, send. Send me patients, send me, uh, referrals and stuff like that. But if you're thinking, how can I serve them? Right? Because there's always value exchange in anything you are doing.You just have to think about it this way. So let's say for me, for an orthodontist, if I'm an orthodontist and I going to go meet my referring dentist, general dentist or just any dentist on the block, I want them to refer me patients, what's in it for them. . Like it's not just dropping off, uh, donuts and saying, hi, Dr.K, I'm next door. Mm-hmm. , send me patients. Yeah. Like what's in it for them? It goes back to that tripod of, belief system. What is that specific value that I can provide to your patients? If I am the veneer doctor, you know, I do the best veneers You. If your patients need veneers and need smile makeover, I can help them see this like value exchange.There's something for that referring doctor that you do as another doctor or a specialist. And when you approach it this way, it, it takes this weird sexiness out of it because you're not selling anything really. Marketing is not selling. You're just trying to, help people, show people that you can help them.Right? So like, thinking about us a little bit differently is very, . Michael: Yeah, I like that a lot. The reciprocity effect, right? Like, this is what we can do for you, kind of thing. Yes. Okay. Awesome. So then, right now, another question is, what would you like to see more from a dentist? you can put yourself in the shoes of the general population, right?Or you can put yourself in the shoes of, of what you do as a life coach and think about what would I wanna see more from? What do I feel like they're neglecting or what do I feel like maybe they can be doing increasing more on Zhanna: just like as, as a doctor in, in their practice? In terms of service or in terms of marketing?Michael: It could be in terms of, it could be in terms of both. In both. Yeah. let's go for that. Yeah, Zhanna: so I think it goes back to that nicheing, you know, having, being specific in something I think. Helpful will be for doctors is to figure out what's their target market is, because then they can help the best, these people, these patients, because these patients will receive the exact experience that they want.And that would help doctors too match with more, uh, patients. So I would love for, you know, my colleagues to really look at the map where they're at. Hopefully they have done it before they purchased a practice. Mm-hmm. , they can do it now. And if they figured out that, you know, uh, their practice is focused on dangers, but they're in the middle of their rodeo drive in la.probably not the service you wanna be selling, right? . Yeah. So you might wanna shift a little bit, or sometimes honestly, the best solution is just to sell the practice and do all that homework and move somewhere else. You know, I always tell my clients, do you want to be bright or do you wanna be rich?Right? , you kind of have to decide. So really looking into your target market. Who is in your vicinity? What do people want, right? And you can do that by, you know, setting the demographics or really get to know your, your clients, your patient. I think what's really helpful and would benefit both patients and doctors is look at your competitors.Look at their yield reviews. Look at what people are talking, what are patients not happy about? And then solve that in your practice. That will not only help you help more people, but more people will be helped with something that they need and your competitors are missing. Mm-hmm. , right? Michael: You see that?Yeah. Yeah. Makes a Zhanna: lot of. . Yeah. And you know, really, like I said, look at your numbers, figure out what your goals, figure out how you want to run your practice, what you wanna charge, what kind of people you wanna attract, and what would serve them best. Like what would, what kind of product or service you can create that will really like, create amazing experience for that.Mm-hmm. , because then that will really benefit. your patience and that will help you grow your practice too. Yeah. Okay. So I think having this like niche down approach and be really specific and serving would be helpful for both. Michael: Okay. Yeah. Awesome. And then, right now, someone who's pretty involved in like social media, you know what I mean?Mm-hmm. , like you're, you're out there and everything. And also like you're involved in the industry, but I really appreciate that you're also involved in like the lives, right? Of a lot of these. practice owners and dentists. So I wanna ask you right now, looking at it from your point of view, what do you hate?And then what do you love about dentistry? Zhanna: Ooh, what do I hate and what do I love about dentistry? How interesting. In terms of social media, I think. , I'll start with what I love. I think what I love is that I think more doctors are understanding the importance of like personal branding and bringing, bringing their own personality to their businesses, right?There's two, there's two schools of thoughts when it comes to branding your business. You can either create. Business persona that represents your brand. That is kind of like faceless, meaning you don't have to like necessarily put your own pictures everywhere, especially on social media and stuff like that.Maybe just one. But. , your customers get a sense of like the energy, the or around your business. Like what exactly, are you a boutique? Are you high volume? Like what, where exactly do you stand? So that's one approach, like this business entity or you can just be yourself and you are your own brand.Mm-hmm. and I thi, this is what I do in my business. Like what you see is my brand is me. . And I think that creates, you know, the like and trust the two important components for people to, to buy from you. Right? And I think a lot of doctors are starting to embrace that, which is very hard. So I like that, that doctors are starting to do that.And I um, you know, I applaud them because as professionals we are, we are, we are taught to be professional, right? Like personal life and professional are completely separate, you know, like tight upper lip type thing. But. people are buying from people. You know what I mean? Yeah. We can't just hide behind the mask of the white code because there was a person behind there.And as much as we wanna be perfect, people know we're not. Mm-hmm. , but they really appreciate if you're passionate about it. So that kind of bleeds into what I, I wouldn't say I hate, but I wish I could see more. Doctors being more passionate about what they're doing, which I think has to do with really finding that niche that you love.And then when you are passionate about it, people actually, customers perceive, passion as in we are going to do a better job for them. because if, like, think about it, a doctor who just comes in a, in a consult room and just spits out diagnosis, I mean, you're, you're just sitting there thinking like, like, you're an idiot because they're just talking all this terminology at you and then they tell you everything that's wrong with you and how much it's gonna cost.Right. Versus a doctor who comes and they love what they do, they're interested in you, they wanna incorporate. Uh, work that they're recommending for you with your lifestyle and how it's gonna all make it work with, you know, how much it costs and stuff like that. Who would you rather go? Probably to the second doctor, right?Mm-hmm. . Yeah, because you think like he or she will do a better job for you because they care. So I would really wish that doctors embraced more the importance of, You know, personal branding and the mindset that they bring to their daily work and finding the area that they truly love and improving as much as possible in that niche of dentistry that they're doing, because I think that will bring the best value to both the doctors and the Michael: patients. Awesome. Okay. As long as, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can. Zhanna: Yes, sure. So the main area they can find me is on LinkedIn. That's where I hang out the most. and in the show notes, we'll probably leave my my coordinates.It's just my name, Dr. Janko. And there is I have a mailing list where I send, weekly motivational and inspirational nuggets for doctors to become thriving leaders in dentistry. So we'll probably leave a link to that too so I can hop on that mailing list. Michael: Awesome. So guys, yeah, that will all be in the show notes below.So definitely reach out to Jean after that. And thank you so much for being with us on this podcast. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Zhanna: Sounds good. Thank you for having me.‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer SocietyJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍‍Guest: David RiceBusiness Name: Ignite DDSCheck out David's Media:‍Instagram: @igniteDDSIgnite DDS Facebook GroupEmail: david.rice@ignitedds.com‍Other Mentions and Links:The Psychology of MoneyDavid on Episode 159The Making Of Facebook GroupSandy Pardue (Classic Practice)PattersonJon Miller (Patterson)Henry ScheinBencoBank of America‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Lending banks do not want to see that you have no debt, they want to see that you can SAVE money. Keep some savings in the bank when securing a loan!Many dentists start off with more than they need. Try running lean an mean at the beginning and add more ops later.Always consider the logical answer before making quick business decisions based on emotion.Podcasts and books are great learning resources starting off, but plan to have 3-5 good mentors to put things into action!Look at the dentist demographics in your area as well as the patient demographics. If there are hungry dentists saturating the market, another location may be better for your startup!Planning to reassess and improve your professional relationships every 90 days is imperative to growth.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: David, how's it going, man? That's great. How you doing today? I'm doing pretty good, man. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located right now? David: St. Petersburg, Florida. Is Michael: that where you're, are you speaking right now or is that where your David: hometown Yeah, so that, so St.Petersburg is home for me, although I do dentistry in, uh, east Amherst, New York, which is Buffalo. So I've got a. Michael: Yeah. How far is that? David: You know, it's about a two hour plane flight, door to door. But I, I, I chunk my time, so I'm in St. Pete for, you know, a month, month and a half, and then I go back there for a week or two and so on and so forth, Michael: man.So he racking up the, the miles man, David: Yeah. Yeah. Delta and I are besties. Michael: I know. awesome man. So we appreci. Everything, man. I, I know a lot of the listeners here are from the startup group, dental Marketer Society, Facebook group too as well. A lot of other groups. You drop a lot of, knowledge, expertise, especially for startups.Do you have, your own startup practice, or was it an acquisition or. David: So I, you know, I kind of ran the full gamut, which I think is important for your listeners to understand. Mm-hmm. , you know, as they listen to people, as you know, advice from folks who've done things lots of different ways matters. So I was an associate, I did three acquisitions and a startup.I've sold it all. I'm back to being an associate again by design. And, that, that matters when you're listening to folks. You know, one startup is great, 10 startup. Means something, you know, one acquisition is great, 10 acquisitions mean something. Mm-hmm. wanna be careful who you're listening to. Michael: Yeah, that's true. Mm-hmm. , when you went to three acquisitions, was that your, out of the three acquisitions in the startup, which one was the first where you dove into? David: First one, uh, was, was an acquisition. there are reasons to do one versus another based on your goals, demographics. opportunity, things like that.But first one was an acquisition. Michael: Gotcha. And then you continued to acquire more and more and then decided to do your startup like that? I, David: I did. And you know, part of the reason I did a startup, part of the reason I acquired other practices as well as did the startup is, , people like to put you in a box and say, well, of course you're sober, successful, you're in East Amherst, New York, not Buffalo or de pew or Lancaster or wherever.Mm-hmm. . And, um, so I just decided, well, I'm just gonna keep going and prove, you know, there are processes that work, they're universal, and then Yep, there are some things that shift based on geography. So that was, that was my why, honestly. And it was fun. And we got to put some young docs in really great positions early on to, you know, become owners and, and to take over.Gotcha. What Michael: were the processes when it came to the acquisitions where you're like, this is universal man, it's, it's whatever acquisition you jump into, it's gonna happen like this. And then what are some things we gotta look out for where it's unique? David: Yeah. So I'll tell you some of the things that are important from a process standpoint are, um, how you sequence them.So the first thing you need to do if you wanna buy a practice or start one, is like, get with a lender and get pre. Step number one, 100% of the time. then things differ. But, so acquisition, once we had the lending in place, then we started saying from a vision standpoint, like, who do I want to be?What kind of practice do I want to have, kind of dentistry? Do I want to do what? ZIP codes, location, location, location, support that rather than trying. really high-end cosmetic dentistry in a demographic that couldn't support it or go into a neighborhood and wanna do bread and butter dentistry in a neighborhood that didn't understand that's not what they wanted.So, you know, get the lending down, figure out what kind of practice you want to build from a vision standpoint. Then build your kind of your core team. and, and build out your, your business plan to deliver just like 10 steps. I love, but just a couple Michael: there. . . So you said get the lending down. Let's, let's jump into it with you, right?Sure. How did you get the lending down and then how did you figure out what kind of practice you wanted? David: Man, great question. So here's, here's the first thing. I got the lending down the wrong. , so don't do what I did. Mm-hmm. , you know, I love to teach from the mistakes I made. most of you who are young dentists are being told by maybe parents or faculty or maybe even folks that you see online that you should be like, knocking off your debt, knocking off your debt, knocking off your debt.Not true. Absolutely. 100% false. You should be going income-based repayment, making your minimum payment possible. Dashing cash. and then the moment you've either acquired your practice or if you start up, started up a practice, then crush your debt. I did it backwards. I, I went to a lender with zero debt.I owned a home with also zero debt and I was a bad lender cuz banks don't want to take away your home or your dental practice if something goes sideways. They wanna look at an account and say, Hey, here's 150, $200,000. And if, God forbid, you're the half of a. , we've got a way to make ourselves whole again, don't do it the way I did it.bank Cash, that's the first lesson. Michael: Okay. So was it hard for you to get a loan cuz of that, or who'd you go with? Yeah. Who'd you end up having to David: go with? So I went with Bank of America, I did. Three of my, my loans through them over the years. They're, they're, they're awesome. They've been great. They have a dental division.They're the largest dental lender out there for a reason. and there's some lessons there too. Part of it is rate, but it's not all about rate. But I went with them and yeah, my first loan was, was tough. I had to have a co-signer, like, oh, think about all that, man. I was 27, I had zero debt. I was firing on all cylinders, and I needed someone to co-sign my.because I did it wrong. So don't do Michael: it wrong, . Okay. So like depth is good in this situation, right? Like you want to have that, cash in the bank. David: So yeah. Cash flow is king. Mm-hmm. . And if you have, ballparks say 50 to 80 grand and a bank. and you show a bank that you can, save money, not light it on fire, cuz you're all excited, you finally get a paycheck. They're not actually gonna take a dime of your money. They just need to see that you're capable of saving money. And then there's other things they need to see too. But I didn't have that right. Even though I thought I did all these things right. What they saw was like a zero net balance. And that wasn't, that wasn't good for me as a young dentist who wanted to be an.Okay, Michael: so then you got the lending down. Yeah. What are the, here's, here's the process where you're like, okay, I'm just gonna get an acquire this practice right here, or how'd you figure out Yeah. The steps for that, like the practice that you David: wanted? Yeah. So I knew for me, I wanted to do complete care. I wanted to do, I wanted patients who wanted like to invest in the.and you, you guys know the dentistry that's out there. It's, you know, call it full mouth rehab, total health, whatever you wanna label it as. But they weren't, I didn't want patients who came in on an emergency only. I didn't want patients I had to fight. So whether we like that or not, that requires a dental iq.Doesn't mean you have to be smart or, in, in life in general, but you have to have a high dental iq. You have to, you have to inherently value that kind of dentist. Or it's an uphill battle to build, 2,500, 3000 patients who get to that value. That's something we can build over time. But if you're gonna buy a practice, you wanna buy in an area where people sort of instinctively get that.So we targeted zip codes and said, Hey, they had to have a certain household income, their family structure had to look a certain. , we wanted a family structure, not 10 kids, but maybe one or two kids. Mm-hmm. and people who, who lived in, in certain areas and he shopped in certain places and they, they liked and bought certain goods and services cuz we knew if they valued those things, they would value the dentistry we wanted.So that narrowed it down for me, like three zip codes in, in Western New York, which is where I want it to be. So do that wherever it is you want to. And, narrow your search. And then from there, you know, there's some really good companies out there that can tell you should you be in a strip mall? Should you be in a standalone?Should you be, a, at a complex that houses 10, 20, 30 businesses And you can study all that stuff and put yourself in an optimum position. Michael: Gotcha. Did you go with any of those companies? Those really, really good. . David: at the time a lot of them didn't exist. So who I did go with and who I still rely on to this day is I called my friends at Care Credit and said, Hey, you guys know, don't just know dentistry, you know, like healthcare.Mm-hmm. . So tell me in these zip codes what neighborhood I should be in. Am I in a corner? Um, what kind of building I should be in? And they had all that data, which was super. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So you figured out like the, the patient base that you wanted, right? Like the exact type of patients then you went from there.Yeah. When you've acquired these practices, cuz this has happened a lot in the past where numbers look inflated, right. whether it's production collection, new patients and they get in there and they're like, this is not at all what I thought it was gonna be. Yep. David: Did that. No, thankfully I had great people on my team who knew how to look at not just the top end number, but why those numbers got there.And they also knew who, how to dissect the practice based on the team that was present and say, Hey, this is the team you can count on moving forward. So these numbers should hold true or. , you know, this team member's been there 35 years, they're probably gonna retire. Or this team member, these team members only been there six months, so they're turning people over.So that's gonna be something you need to consider on building a new team. So they dissected the numbers themselves, they dissected the processes. Um, we looked at existing team and culture. We looked at insurances. Participated versus accepted versus network. We looked at all those factors and then we looked at goodwill.So if you're buying something, if you're thinking about buying a practice, ultimately that's what you're buying. You're buying me the seller anointing, you the buyer, as the greatest dentist on the planet and the person I've been searching for my entire career. And when you have all those things put together, you will not lose.more than 10% of the patient base, and you should lose less than 5%. And anyone who tells you you're gonna expect to lose 20 or 30, they don't know how to do what they should know how to do. Don't listen to that advice. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. That's really, really good advice. So then, mm-hmm. , you built three acquisitions.So what was the, why not do a fourth one? Why'd you do a startup instead? David: prove, I could prove I could take a startup to a million dollars in under 18 months, so that, that was. . Michael: Oh man. So break that process down to us, like how did that happen? David: Yeah. So, okay, so similar process. Go get a lender, get your pre-approval.interesting enough. , your easiest lend is your first one, friends. So do that one, right? Every time you go back to a bank, yes, you, you have history, but you need to have really strong history. So in my sense, it worked out really great cause I had strong history, but in general, your first lend is easiest.So start a practice. We looked at the same thing. What kind of dentistry do we want to. , what zip code codes will support that kind of dentistry? what kind of marketing plan are we gonna need? Because now they're not butts and seats from day one. We've gotta build butts and seats. And, and then how do we build the right lean team to open the doors with?And how do we build the right le um, have the right lean, build? . So we didn't build a space that was too big. and we're paying for things that we don't really need. There's, there's lots of myths out there. Like, oh, build it for like six ops. No, do not do that. build lean and mean. You can move, you can expand.worry about being locked in a space that's too small. That will be the best problem you'll ever have. so simple things that work and are repeatable Gotcha. Michael: Halene and mean. David: We did four ops. we plumbed all four, but we had only three outfitted. One as a main restorative op, one as a hygiene op, and one is sort of an overflow that you could use either way now.I'm gonna caveat this. So imagine that I'm in a community that knows me already, so I had an advantage over you. Somebody who's doing a startup and no one knows you. Mm-hmm. . If I'm doing a startup and no one knows you, do not. Don't plan on having a hygienist for like six to eight months. Like go in as dentist, have an assistant who can also answer phones.And then as soon as you can warrant adding somebody, add someone at the front desk. So you have front desk assistant dentist, and last, and not least add hygiene, but, I went and lean with, a trio. I'm gonna say most of you'll go and lean with the trio and, unplug hygiene. Michael: Hmm. Okay.That's really, really good. And then mm-hmm. , what was your marketing David: plan? marketing for us, we had an advantage. One of my really great friends owns an ad agency that deals with outside of dental industry, so n f l, like big time folks. Hmm. But they took us on, out of friendship and then we targeted procedures and demographics of people that we knew would mix.So we went urban with the. We knew we were gonna target essentially millennials as our patient. So what are procedures that we knew they wanted and what are factors we knew they wanted? So convenience was number one. Technology was gonna be number two, services like, know, Invisalign and things that people in a demographic whitening would want would be number three.And then we just built everything from that core sort of found. Michael: roughly monthly. How many new patients were you getting? 40. 40. Wow. Okay. So then today, where do you see it go wrong? Where do you see, like, where people are like, I'm trying to do all these Facebook. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like a bunch of stuff.Where do you see it go wrong? David: Oh, lots of places. So people don't, um, it goes wrong when you don't do your home. it goes wrong when you emotionally attach yourself to a location, and say, boy, I really want to be here, but you haven't studied to see, can that support you? One, are there enough patients per capita Two, are they the right patients for the style of practice you want to build?that's one piece. Another piece is, investing in, in lease space or ownership. I would tell you if you're doing a startup, Nine out of 10 times you should lease not own. you wanna lower your, cashflow out. Cuz again, this, this is a cashflow game too. So the faster you can get the positive net, the better.So most often that's leasing a space. Hire someone to negotiate for you. Uh, you would be shocked at the um, negotiation leverage you have when you get somebody in the game who understands how to beat a landlord. if you're thinking of doing a startup in the next year, the a n u, this could possibly be the best time to do a startup in the last 15 years.so Awesome. So, you know, side then size of space, don't overbuild. I think a lot of people overbuild and then I think a lot of people over dentally, tech out get foundational pieces of technology that really, really matter. outfit your primary room to do all the things you want it to do, and then everything else is kind of nice to have.If it fits in your budget, I would rather you spend way more money on your marketing, than outfit three rooms, Mac, daddy them. You can always come back and invest in, uh, more equipment. So I think those are the big ones. Okay. If it's me and what I'm seeing out there, Michael: is a good, like, rule of thumb when it comes to, cuz it, you know, you hear that a lot, like, invest as much as you can in your marketing.What's a good, like percentage wise when you're, when you're looking at David: that man, it, it's, it's, honestly, it's hard to say. I'm gonna say the average startup today is 700 grand. So if you said you're spend. Oh God, 10% of that, 15% of that on marketing. That's, that's, that's probably a healthy budget.I think it's easy for people to go, it's easy for people to underspend and then wonder, why am I only getting a couple patients? Cause there's, you know, you know, from what you do, there's like a critical mass number and you have to, you have to hit that threshold in order to cross over the other side. So I would say minimum 10, 15% of that load you.Michael: Okay. It's interesting. I feel like, do you think some people look at the unicorn who like, oh, I opened up where I wanted to, did what I wanted to, did all this. And then they're like, I throw money at you, like, tell me how to do it. You know what I mean? Kind of thing. Do you think that's kind of like, I guess like common instead of, all right, we should sit down and do our due diligence here and this is not gonna work out.David: Yeah, I think that's, um, unfortunately. , it's, uh, you know, social media. There's a blessing and a curse to it. The blessing is we meet people and we, we can learn some best practices. The curse, the downside to it is we're really like tiptoeing in somebody else's water and everybody's circumstances are different.So I think, yes, unfortunately probably eight out of 10 people look at the unicorn and say, well, I'm just gonna do it that way, and that way might not be the way at all there. There needs to be process. this should be a zero emotion and a 100% logic driven process for everybody who's gonna do it.Cause the feel good goes away the moment the bills start coming in and the revenue doesn't. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I feel like I get, I hear that a lot, David, where it's like, oh man, I just needed my own place to do a startup. This is my own brand. Finally I can do what I want. You know what I mean? And there's a lot of emotion and I guess emotion kind of sells, but like, is that, is that wrong?David: I'm just gonna say that I, and I'm you, anyone who's watching me, like, I'm not an absolute guy. I'm like, life's gray in the middle. But if you're making your choice on emotion yes. That is in, in that situation, it's 100% not the right way to do it. There are instances where you're gonna wanna start up and then there are instances you're absolutely not gonna wanna start up.You're better off buying a practice. And then there are instances you might be better off staying an associate a little while longer to bank more cash and wait for the right opportunity to open up. it's e it's easy as a young dentist to think, man, I'm not moving fast enough cuz I'm watching all these people sprint.I think what, what we don't see is all the behind the scenes stuff. Like it's easy to take a snapshot of my life today and be like, wow, that looks really great. But I'm here to tell you, like for every good thing that's happened, there's been like a hundred bad things, . that's just not what we talk about on social media all the time.We don't talk about the work and the stress and the days. I would close the door and be like, you know what? I'm not paying myself today. I'm gonna pay my bills. I'm gonna pay my team, and then I'm gonna try to figure out how I'm going to. and like I had those times just like everybody else had those times.So, you know, if you're thinking about this process, like really sit back, get with the small, and I mean small, like three to five people, mentors, stops and start listening deeply to their lessons and not this wide swath of people. Cuz you're gonna get a hundred different answers from a hundred different people.Yeah. Michael: So then what would be. Where you're, somebody's telling you, let's just say like, all these people are. I, I think I've heard it somewhere where they're like, undercover mentor, right? Where you don't know that, David, you're my mentor, but I've been listening to your stuff, watching your po, you know what I mean?Kind of thing. So it's like, all right, I'm listening to David. And now what would you say to be like, Yeah, you do need a startup. You do need to do a startup. Yeah. What, what would be the, okay. , the David: okay for it is, the first thing I would do is I would look in an area and I would say, okay, where do I want to be?So here's where I want to be. Then I would say, what are the li where are the realistic opportunities in like those three zip codes? Can I acquire a practice in those three zip codes for a reason, like a fair value? yes. Or. yes. I'm here to tell you buy the practice, don't start one. unless you're looking at a group of dentists who've been there, who are already, really enjoying life.So if you went into where I, my first practice where I started and you talked to my partner, my former partner, mark and Laura, and, and you wanted to compete, you could do a startup in their neighborhood. because they're already getting 60 new patients a month like clockwork. Everything's good. They don't have to worry about it.So if you want to come in and do some marketing, like they're like, ah, come in my neighborhood and do some marketing. Now, if you wanted to do a startup in a neighborhood where there's six people who are just like you and everybody's hungry and everybody's trying to build, and maybe it's people that are, uh, two, three years ahead of you, so they have some systems in place, that is not the place to start up.You're gonna get buried. , no matter how good you think you are. Mm-hmm. . so I think always look at not just the patient demographics, but the dentist demographics. And if the dentist demographics are people who are on autopilot and you wanna do a startup, go for it. If they're really, really new and they're not doing a lot of things, well go for it.But boy, if they're in the middle and they're hungry and they do a lot of things right, that's not the place to do a startup. Don't do it. Michael: Okay. Any like specific place? Like are you thinking of like Frisco or California? Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Okay. Doesn't matter. David: Yeah, just any place where there's a population.Population of people. so it doesn't, I mean, Buffalo, New York, I can, if you wanted to be in Buffalo or some suburb, I could tell you do not go to East Amherst. , do not go to Orchard Park. You wanna be in Buffalo proper, you wanna be in Lancaster to Pew, you wanna be um, in Lockport. All those places are opportunity.But if you go to one of the three places where all the Beth dentists who are really hungry are, it's gonna be a tough haul uphill. Michael: Yeah. So then that's like the strategy. But when it comes to like, I guess cuz you said to ignore the emotion, right? To, so yeah. Let's ignore the part where it's like, oh, I just want to do my own startup.Yeah. When would it be okay then, or how do you know if it's like, I'm just being impatient, I need to find a better associate, uh, ship, or I need to find an acquisition. You know what I mean? Like when is it the okay to be, like, is it just when you're doing research and you're like, I feel like owning a business or, or how does that work?Yeah. David: I think when you are ready, like when you wake up in the morning, you think I'm ready to be a practice owner, then you should Go for it as a practice owner. But I think then you need to look at what's the best path for ownership for me. Mm-hmm. . and you should be patient enough to know that, like getting in the right relationship in life, like you might find Mr.Miss, him, her wonderful when you're not looking. So it might not be today, it might be three months, six months, or a year from today. So it own that. You wanna own, that's amazing. But don't take a bad opportunity in a rush if it takes you eight months, 10 months, a year to get exactly what you want. It's worth the weight.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then why is this the best time in past 15 years to do it? David: So there's gonna be this little thing called the recession hitting the world. not if it's when, and it's how intensely. The great news is dentistry, like it is pandemic proof, it's recession proof. We've already been through multiple recessions.Dentistry does really, really well. So here's the win. , you're going to be successful because you're still going to do dentistry, despite the economy. The wins are, you're gonna be able to negotiate with landlords much better because that's, uh, a business world that doesn't do well in recession. People stop paying rents.Mm-hmm. . So now you, you're a really good tenant, or if you wanna buy a piece of property, property values are gonna dip 10, 15, 20%. So you're gonna buy for less. Equipment. Now you're not gonna go to, any major equipment company and get like a 30% off deal, but you are gonna get a deal and you're gonna get a lot of perks.You're also gonna be able to get your equipment a whole lot faster. So maybe it took me eight, nine months to get my equipment and it takes you six, which gives you time. To get to your startup factor, like you've made the decision, you're doing it, you've done all your homework. Now your goal is to get the doors open as quickly as possible.Cuz then time is money. So, real estate's gonna be a better buy. Equipment's gonna be a better buy. Supplies will be a better buy. And you're gonna do the same level of dentistry you would've done, uh, economy booming or economy just doing okay. So you're in that buy low sell high kind of place and, and realistically, you know, just two years.you already have an asset that's probably worth, you know, 1.5 to two times x. And that's doesn't happen very often in that chart of a span kind. That's Michael: good. I like that. So then if we were one a little bit, your three acquisitions in one startup, you let that go when? David: life and timing. Seven months pre covid.Michael: Okay. So pre covid life and ti. , David: it was part of an eight year plan. so yeah, I'm a, I'm a planning nut, so I had an eight year plan, where I, I love doing dentistry. I continue to do dentistry, but what I knew is Ignite was gonna take me to a different kind of business. And, it allows me to reach and work with young dentist.all the time, which I love even more than doing dentistry full-time. And the other part for me, from like a life and a vision standpoint, it is, it gave me total mobility. So my wife and I wanted to live someplace where the sun shined every day. My dental practice was in a place where it's fine, like 20 days a year.So , you know, ignite allowed us to move and take our, like our next life. earlier than it would've otherwise had I stayed a dentist full-time. So our practice needs its leaders there full-time. I get to go back and do all the things I do clinically and um, tech-wise, I get to build content there, which is amazing.And then, um, I get to go, you know, be with my wife in Florida the rest of the time, which is, you know, that's our sort of perfect life design. Mm-hmm. , Michael: that's how you created it, right? Yeah. Towards the. Man. So you planned that out like that. Interesting. Okay, man. Mm-hmm. . So then I wanted to ask you, um, throughout your process of your acquisitions, also your, your startup and everything like that.Sure. And what you've been seeing lately, what have been some of the best companies to work with, and then some of the worst ones. David: So I'll caveat this with I'm different than many dentists where I believe that loyalty really. So I'm a Patterson guy. Mm-hmm. , and I've been for 29 years now.That doesn't mean if you went to work with Shine or Benko or somebody else, that that's bad. That's not bad. Um, but my relationship started with Patterson years and years ago. They've been amazing to me. We've worked together with every single thing I've ever done, and it's been a craziest success. So if you don't know who to go to, I highly recommend that.If you say, man, I work with Scheiner Benko and they're doing right by me. , stay with them, be super loyal to them. that's been, uh, I think a life premise. I do that with flights and hotels and everything, like loyalty pays big time. So I like Patterson. if I'm you guys and I'm talking like startups or first practice, one of my favorite people in dentistry, his name is Jonathan. I love Jonathan. He's, he's integrity through the roof. He's got a banker's background, but he literally has devoted his whole life to, your first practice, whether it's an acquisition or a startup. And I love, love, love that cuz he has no vested interest in which one you choose. It just needs to be the right one for you.That's like solid objective information. . he's tremendous. I'm a B of a guy. I also like provide, I think they're, they're also a very good lender. So I, I work with, uh, young docs on both of those lens all the time. I don't have no skin in the game. I just know that they both can deliver. sometimes one's better than the other just based on timing and, and offers they have. And sometimes it's just likability. Like, here's a couple good people. Pick who you wanna work with. Mm-hmm. , What spaces are you looking for Michael: in, I guess gimme like from the processes of your startup, right? Where you're like, okay, we built it, but now after like one, two years, three years after it's up and running because like, let's just say for example, there's a.So that, that leads to another question like, cuz you mentioned loyalty, right? When would it be okay to let that loyalty go? To be like, man, you screwed up way too many times. Like, these claims are, I can get 'em better done by somebody or I don't know. You know what I mean? yeah. And it's different now too, cuz of social media.Like, you see everybody's saying they're the best, they're the, you know, contact this person and all these things. So Sure. Kinda like in that area. David: Yeah, so that's, and that's a really good point. What I would recommend to all of you is you reassess every relationship you have every 90 days. So I'm not looking to make a move, but I am looking to make sure people are performing.And that's on part of, that's on them, on on, on the other side of the relationship. But part of that's on me too, as an. You know, as the quote, c e o of my company and as a leader, is to define my expectations to all the people we work with and show them what a win is for you. Tell them, and, you know, when we work together, these are the things that matter most to me.And then if you, every 90 days are circling up with them, they're either checking all those boxes or they're not. So for me, I, at 90 days, if somebody wasn't doing their job, I would say, Hey, remember when we promised? that these three or five things were really important, you were gonna do those things.They'll say yes. You'll say, okay, so help me understand how we missed. I don't know, two out of the five. What are we gonna do about it? How do we fix that in between now and the next time we get together? And then if they fix it and it stays fixed, amazing. If they don't, then you know that's, you've given your best to the relationship.They clearly look at it differently than you and. Then it's time to move on. Um, but I think like all relationships, when we communicate really, really well, here's what we need from you. And they say, here's what we need from you, and then we, we both work at delivering what we need. Then you'll find you'll have 10 year, 15 year, 20, 30 year relationships with people, and your life will go much more smoothly as a business owner in addition to costing you a lot less money.Michael: I like that. So today still, David, do you re reassess it every 90 days or after like 10 years? You're like, we got it. We got, we're, we're David: pretty cool. Mm-hmm. , we still do, we do it with every insurance. not with dental insurances, but like male practice, disability, life. Uh, we do it with our financial planners, in the office for the 401k and our profit sharing outside of the office.For what we do alone, I do it with my C P A, we do it with our attorneys. and um, you know, it's, it was really cool when I was with the practice all the time and, and Mark and I were just partners together. We did it together. We brought everybody in and we round tabled it. We're like, okay, you're all on our team.Cuz what's really interesting is sit down with the CPA and they're gonna give you, this advice, you know, over, you know, over in one cap. And then you sit down the financial planner and they might be in a totally different camp. No, no, no, no. That's a bad idea. Do this. But when we bring our cpay and our financial planner together, And it's not a, one versus the other.It's more the goal is to win. So share why you c p a see it this way. Financial planners share why you see it this way? It's so cool to see people interact and say, you know what? Wow, I never really looked at that way. I get why you want to do that. So what if we did a little bit of this and then we did a little bit of that, and then we assessed what works best and then we'll do more of what works and less of what doesn't work.Don't be afraid to take your external team and unite them in a room or a virtual room on a regular basis and have everybody talking to everybody. It's gonna make them feel really good because you're in this with them. It's not a transaction and you'll get really crazy better results when everybody communicates with everybody and people aren't butting heads all the time, you know, over turf.Michael: So you do that every like quarter or every 90 days. Mm-hmm. you, you get everybody together and. David: Yeah, that, and we, yeah. And I'll tell you pro-tip, when you're building out a space, do the same thing. We got our architect, our general contractor, Patterson as our distributor, who's gonna supply the equipment, all the subs, electric, plumbing, the whole nine yards.We got 'em all together at, at a table, handed out a little information sheet, said, this is who y'all are. This is all your. . So we are gonna build this place together. And when you feel like somebody's holding you up, then let that person know along with us and we can hold everybody accountable in this process.And our buildouts went much better that way than when we tried to do them not doing it that way. Michael: I like that man. So you let the, you let them know, Hey, if you hold us up, everybody else is accountable kind of thing. . David: Mm-hmm. . And you know, cuz you know, it's, it's, he said, she, she said, so if you're building a space out and, and you're, you're running behind, which happens too commonly in Buildouts.Mm-hmm. , someone's gonna say, oh man, I couldn't come in and do my job cuz so and so didn't do theirs. Well, once you put everybody in a room and you hold them accountable to each other, then they, I can't blame if I'm a plumber. I can't blame the electrician cuz boy, we, we all know each other now. So if you had a problem with the electrician plumber, it was your. So let that person know and let us know there was a problem. So we knew what to expect. Michael: Okay. I like that man. Okay. So we wanna reassess every relationship every 90 days, right? All together. Yeah, everybody. And then make sure we talk to everyone, let them know their roles, communicate and so forth. Okay.Interesting. So, David, I know you, you do a lot now, I dunno if you're more busier now than you were when you had all the acquisition. So real quick, what's your area of e. . David: I'm gonna say I'm a leadership and culture builder. That is, that is my, there are, there are things that I'm pretty darn good at, but that's what I'm pretty darn good at, that I really, really love and I'm a huge fan of.So I work with young folks all the time on how to build that in their practice. And sometimes it's a personal thing. Most of the time it's a practice thing. when you really get it, you realize it's all the same. Mm-hmm. . So yeah, that's how I personally help people. And outside of that, I'm gonna say my superpower is just connecting you for the right people.Big ocean out there. My job is just take the ocean, turn it into a pond, and then you as a, a young dock side, who in that pond you should play with. But at least we've weeded. , all the other fluff. Yeah, Michael: everything else is unnecessary. So then what can a dentist do today to improve their, their marketing or their business?David: First thing I would do is I would look at my internal systems. I'm a big fan of external marketing as well. I'm here to share with you if your internal systems aren't buttoned up. , um, you can reign in, you know, a hundred phone calls a day and you're not gonna convert mm-hmm. . So why spend the time, the energy and the dollars on that unless you have your internal systems buttoned up?So I would work on that. I would work on my, my diagnostic skills, my treatment planning skills, and especially my communication skills from first phone call to passing the baton from one team member to the. To treatment plan and case acceptance to follow up. And if you master that process that you do all day every day as a team, you, you can't help but grow at least 20% in less than six months.I mean, it's, it's hard not to grow that fast. Michael: Yeah. So then look at, if, if you were to give us like a couple bullet points, like besides phones, right? Because like obviously if phones aren't converting, then we. You know, marketing is just being always what's, what are some internal systems that you've seen where people continue to miss it after year, two, year three, year four, and, and you have to go in there again and be like, keep an eye on this system or create a system for this.What are some of those? Sure. David: I'm gonna say low hanging fruit. people don't have assistant to. Patients for referrals. that's an easy one. you know who your best patients are, you probably want more of them and not just more of like the random person. So having a system for asking for referrals is a big one.Having a system to, be up the case acceptance model from hygienist to dentist. Is another really, really easy one. So as a dentist, you should walk in a room and that patient should be primed. They should already have a, a firm grasp of everything you're gonna say. You and your hygienist should have a really nice system to communicate with each other before you walk in.And then adding to that system how you share what you share over a patient's shelter. There's tons of data to show that your patients listen more to what they overhear than what they. . Um, and then the third one is system for accountability. And that is everybody does what they promised to do and I've seen so many dental practices fall off the ledge cuz everybody gets excited about something and then three months later, six months later, three years later, they're doing it.Same darnt thing that they did in the beginning. So accountability is everything. Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Interesting. Now these next couple questions are just to get into the head of someone who. Ran practices and startups, right. Acquisitions. But right now, what would you like to see more from a practice owner? David: I would like to see more leadership.this is gonna be a hard truth for some of you, but people don't leave jobs. They leave you. So if your team is walking out the door, they're leaving you. And I know you think it's about a dollar an hour or two bucks an hour, it's. . It's a good thing that we point to in today's world, but since the dawn of time, strong leaders build strong teams and strong teams stay cuz they're a part of something bigger.Do you Michael: ever feel like somebody ever comes to you and like, David, I'm trying to lead this, and then you're, you look at them, you talk to them, they're trying, but you're just like, you're just not a leader man. Like you're not meant for this role. Has that ever. David: It, it happens a lot. And I, you know, I don't blame anyone when that happens because unless you have invested more time and energy in learning to be a leader, it's, you know, it's inherent in some people.Some people are natural born leaders, but most people learn leadership as a skillset, just like they learn everything else. So I think what happens is, whether it's social media or parents or you read a book, you, you think you're taking these great lessons and bringing them to the table. somebody's hearing a totally different message than what you are verbalizing or even better what you're showing them, right?Mm-hmm. , who you are is different than who you're speaking to them, so the connection is getting lost. So if you feel like this isn't going perfectly well, you know, spend some time to learn to be a leader. It's just like wrapping a tooth. You have to be taught. Michael: Anything you recommend? Like, cuz you mentioned that and I'm like, oh dang.I do that sometimes. Like I'll read a bucket and I'm like, we're doing this and then a year from now I'm like, what happened to that? We, we should have done that Right. Kind of thing. So what would you recommend where we go to get taught? David: Yeah. So first I'm gonna say read all the books. That's, that's always a good thing.Listen to all the podcasts, that's always a good thing. But look at that as like very 1 0 1 information. Mm-hmm. And then I'm gonna say, take a deep dive in leadership with somebody. So, Sandy Paru, great example. Like somebody who knows how to teach leadership. something I do a lot, I teach leadership a ton, um, to young d dentists.there's probably 10 people I could name that, you know, if, if you guys wanna follow up with me, I'll give you all 10. Like, I doesn't matter to me. There's, there's like so much work out there for all of us. It's not a thing. So I'm happy to share all the people that I think are really, really good.But find somebody. that you, you really trust what they say. Check on them, right? Check to see who else thinks they're really darn good at what they do, and then go all in and stop dabbling and stop listening to people in a Facebook group, including our Facebook group, right? Listen only to that person.That's how you're gonna succeed. Mixed messages. It's just noise and it's a diversion from us succeeding quickly. Michael: Yeah, a hundred percent, man. I agree. So then right now, What do you hate about dentistry or dislike ? David: the blessing and the curse of social media. I hate social media and, and I, and I share that with all of you telling you that I built Ignite TDS on social media, right?right? Mm-hmm. , we reach a million people a month. We built our entire company on social media, but I still, the problem is most of social media today is affirmation and it is not information. Mm-hmm. , it's people going to comm. and, um, it's not all groups, but certain groups who've got some significant popularity.listen, they're Dan Kennedy marketing trained. They're har, they're honing in on three pain points that they know you have. And if you just pay attention, there might be 20 posts a day, seven days a week. But over the course of six months, they all say three things. They all harp on the fact that student loan debt is.and shame on dental schools, they harp on insurance companies are awful. Shame on insurance companies for paying you less. there's a few others out there, but, um, I don't like that. I don't like people who, who position themselves to generate business out of fear. It works. I get it. But I, that's my biggest dislike in dentistry today.Michael: Ah, when you were mentioning that, I, I started thinking of because, you know, we're all part of a lot of Facebook groups. Interesting. Yeah. No, no. I, I agree a hundred percent. Like, so then what would you, I guess, what would you like to see change from that? Just completely stop that or, David: in, in a perfect world, like, yeah, I'd like people to just stop, but that's not gonna happen.So what, so what I would like, honestly, a realistic world is each of us. As a, uh, social media user go in with both eyes wide open, and even in those groups where there are things like that, that I dislike, there's really good information, so don't throw it all out. Just go in and realize when somebody says this, they're saying it for a reason.They're pushing you to an end. if that end game is your perfect end game, listen, if that is not your perfect end game and it's challenging your beliefs and where you wanna go and making you feel like um, you can't get there, then you need to minimize your exposure to it. Cause it repetition will get you and eventually wear you down and make you feel like you can't.And, and I'm here to tell you, dentistry is still today one of the greatest professions where everything is possible. So you want to go be a fee for service dentist. I can teach you how to do that and make a lot of money. You want to be a P P O dentist. Um, better people than me can teach you how to do that and make a lot of money.You wanna be a Medicaid dentist. Different people than me can teach you how to do that and make a lot of money. My job is to just help you in the lane if you're in my lane, and then get you to somebody who's in a different lane if you wanna be in a different lane. Michael: Yeah, man. And I like that man affirmation and that information.You're right, there's a lot of. , we used to be information overload. Now it's just opinion overload. Totally. Like everybody has an opinion for everything and states it as a fact. You know what I mean? Yeah. Everybody's David: an expert. Like, and that, that's what I mean. If, if I literally, if I owned one, and in fact even if I owned my four practices and I didn't study practice models and work in like 50 practices a year, times the last 25 years. my information would be purely opinion and would mean nothing to you. So when somebody says, do these 10 things, how many times have they done it? How many different ways have they done it? If it's under 20, stop listening. It's irrelevant. Michael: Yeah. If it's not applicable. Do you think it's more like, cuz like, oh, we're in the same boat.I have like that common ground, like we're both just started up kind of thing, right? Yeah. David: So they. Yeah, I, and, and there's value in that. So there's value in knowing that we're all in this together and that we're not alone. w Edwards Deming, who's probably the greatest economist America has ever seen, but certainly a top three, if you don't know him, study him.94% of our successes in our systems, I can't build a good system. One shot. I have to have multiple shots over time. I can't have

‍In this episode, Jasmine Smith, from Versa Solutions, breaks down 5 actionable tips that we can use to ensure a smooth insurance relationship.‍Get Credentialed - Yes, credentialing can be tricky, and it may be temping to bill under your name instead of the associate performing the treatment, but don't do it! This results in a messy claim and can be a red flag for future audits.‍Sign up for EFTs - Electronic Funds Transfer methods allow payments to be easily processed and can eliminate the travel time and restrictions of physical delivery.‍Verify Benefit Eligibility - Always double check a patient's benefit eligibility. Even though they might say they are covered, making sure can avoid future disappointment.‍Document Everything - The more documentation on procedures the better! Always keep good notes to avoid claim denial.‍Review AR Weekly - Be sure to review your Accounts Receivable balance at least once per week. If this is close to zero, meaning no money is owed, your account is in a good place!‍You can reach out to Jasmine Smith here:Versa Solutions WebsiteFacebookLinkedinTwitterInstagram: @versasolutionsinc‍Other Mentions and Links:CAQH Credentialing Service (ADA)Practice by NumbersWeaveDental Intel‍‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Jasmine, so talk to us about medical and dental billing. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with doing medical and dental billing? Jasmine: Right. So Michael, my experience as a, billing company owner, uh, involves mostly helping practice owners get to the bottom of their slow insurance and patient collections, and not only implement systems, um, to help achieve faster cash flow, but actually keep those systems running smoothly for them.So, We put the work in and do all of the work, . So, um, we help all kinds of specialties, practice management softwares, practice types, whether they're fee for service, p o, Medicaid. So we've seen it all, done it all. but the common denominator I noticed between all of these practices, it's staffing issues.It seems like everybody's having an issue with that right now. Mm-hmm. . So you can't keep your biller who or your office manager who's gonna make sure your claims go out, who's collecting from the patients. Who's sending statements and making follow up calls to the patients about their bills. Um, 1, 2, 3 years go by and you realize you've only gotten paid six to 7 cents of the dollar that you've actually worked for.So the other side of the staffing issues is, um, hiring someone who has good intentions, and they believe they know the ins and outs of dental billing, but they really don't, and they can create some costly mistakes for their practice. So, If as the practice owner, you're not auditing the work, things can pile up really quickly.So we've seen that happen as well. But I'm here because I wanna share five tips that every practice owner should implement that I wish everybody knew about. So the first one is get credentialed. I heard on one of your other podcasts of someone, um, really going into this point, going into depth.That was great. Don't go off and hire an associate. Allow them to treat patients in your office and then bill under your name as the treating dentist. That's not a clean claim. That's an easy way to flag an audit with the insurance company because, um, if you're attaching your narrative for, you know, a procedure whose name is at the bottom, whose name is signed at the bottom of that narrative.So, um, and if you accidentally. A batch of claims with, you know, your associate on them and you get it back and it's out of network or, you know, um, there's a denial. Then you wanna send a batch of, corrected claims with your name on it. That may cause suspicion as well. the a d a has a pre credentialing service, C A Q H, so that's a great, um, tool to use to get credentialed applications.Second one is sign up for as many EFTs as possible. We've seen a claim go out same day as the date of service, and then you get paid the very next day. We've seen these bank accounts get funded the very next day after you see the patient. So that's very, very quick. Um, a lot of the insurance companies are getting crafty with insurance, credit card payments or v c virtual credit card.Um, that's when they send you like, Hey, here's a credit card. You can process your credit card machine, for payment for this, you know, procedure. Um, but you actually. , charged a lot of fees with your merchant service. Mm-hmm. , if you do a annual, you know, credit card mm-hmm. , transaction, so there's no charge to receive EFTs from an insurance carrier.Um, and then, you know, when disaster strikes in an area which we've seen, there's been hurricanes lately. Um, the mail stops, that's tens of thousands of dollars that's waiting To get to you. So, you know, imagine if you just had that direct deposit and you can access it immediately and do what you need to do.Also, the paperwork of getting paper claims and checks all the time. It's just a bummer, . So, uh, my third tip. Is to verify. Uh, when a patient comes in and hands you an insurance card, you really need to verify the eligibility and benefits. You can't just take their word for it, that they have coverage and everything's covered. don't bill blindly don't update the benefits in the system by blindly, uh, yeah, it's the patient's job to know their benefits, but I assure you less than 10%, maybe even 5% of people actually know their benefits. , they're still gonna be upset when they have to pay that 25 dollar deductible that you didn't tell them about.So just find out beforehand. What their insurance is all about, who you're billing, even before they're seen. And if you can't do that, if you just have no time, outsource it. There's many companies that do this. Um, and my fourth tip is documentation. I also heard another one of your podcasts or someone really, um, honed in on this point.not only do x-ray. Need to justify a procedure being completed, but the clinical narrative needs to paint the picture as well. So, for example, we usually see the most denials with crowns and buildups. then we see the narrative template and we're like, oh, that's why , because the insurance carriers want to see whether it's an initial. Or replacement with the prior placement date? Was it a fracture? They need the location of the fracture. I've seen sometimes they were asking for the length and depth of the fracture. was it a fail amalgam restoration, recurrent decay? How much of the tooth had decayed before removal? How much of the tooth was remaining before the buildup?Just so much needs to be in the narrative for processing, and that will make sure that you. Your payment quicker, and if you have a denial, it would be far and few in between. And then my fifth point is with patient billing. Um, we offer a service for patient billing with our company. So we've seen it all in this area as well.Um, at the very least, you should review your new accounts on your AR on a weekly basis. So these are. Accounts, ideally that you know insurance has paid, um, and you need to review the ending balance. Every pr uh, practice management software really has a easy way for you to check this. and then you can send your statements out immediately after you re you reviewed the account.what we do is make notes on the account, just showing us where the balance is coming from. And when the patient does call, we can just locate our note and explain where the balance is coming from really easily and quickly. Um, and then when you make a rule, stick with it. Like, if you deem contacting the patients three times is enough, maybe statement, call statement, write the balance off or send them to collections.Don't let the balance linger. That's how your ar will increase over time. So just take action, you know, make some rules, set a system up with your staff and, um, your AR would, you know, look pretty clean. If your patients overpay you, this is the other hand of it, pay them back. Um, keep your AR as close to zero as possible.So not too many credits, not too many debits. Let's just, you know, keep it close to zero, which is what we try to do with our company as. Michael: nice, Jasmine, I appreciate that. Out of these five, I, I kind of wanna rewind a little bit. When you mentioned, um, the number two sign up for as many EFTs you said Yeah.As possible. Okay. Can that ever backfire or no? Jasmine: Um, I've not seen it backfire. Only when there is a recoupment that needs to happen. you know, patient. Plan actually terminated, but the insurance paid the office, they'll just take it out of the next payment. So you really have no control over that.Usually if you get paper checks, they'll ask for the money back in another check. So you really have no control over that. But you know, they'll take it out of something anyway, . Gotcha. Michael: Okay. Do you guys do medical billing too? Jasmine: Um, we send medical claims for some of our oral surgery offices, when needed, but we don't really dive into the medical billing part of it with the coding and I c D 10.Michael: Gotcha, gotcha. So then where do you see out of these five tips, like people mainly have the Jasmine: most hiccup. most hiccups is probably the verification. Um, there are so many claims that go denied or rejected because the verification wasn't done in the beginning. probably second one would be the credentialingMm-hmm. , um, hiring an associate and not putting them on the claim. It's just kind of, I see that a lot. I know it's a headache trying to credential all of your new, employees, especially if, um, you're going out of network anyway. but it's just good to put them on the claim form. And then documentation would probably be number three.why Michael: documentation, like what is not Jasmine: enough detail or not enough detail? Um, some doctors have their assistance right in the details of the narratives, and maybe they're not just, they're not trained enough or not enough was communicated with them. Um, but yeah, I, I would recommend, you know, at the end of the day, just review all of your notes.Make sure. It's completely, filled out to the brim . Yeah. Too much information is good. Um, especially when trying to get these claims paid the first time. You don't wanna have it denied and come back and wait another 30 days for that to process. So. . Michael: Yeah. Because I feel like that can be a headache, especially when you get a lot of denied claims.I mean, you're on the phone, you're at the front office, you're getting another denied claim. You know, you're, you're dealing with that and people are coming in calling and all these things. Right? So it can be tough. I like what you mentioned when you said make a rule, stick with it to you.From the many practices that work with you guys, what have you seen to be like a really fantastic role when it comes to this? Jasmine: So we, uh, contact patients six times, right? So that's our role as our billing company. If we contact the patients, we we're probably sending three statements, making three follow-up phone calls.that's our role. We stick with it. The offices tend to agree that yeah, that's a good amount of times to contact a patient about their bill. If they're not paying by then, then you know, how many other times do it. So, That's the rule, and that's good. It, when we're done with it, we exhaust all attempts.Patient either gets sent to collections or if the balance is too low, it's written off. Lots of notes are written on the, um, on the account. Popup notes are created, so before the office or the patient even comes in, they have to pay the bill. So it's smooth. It, it works. . I think that's a, that's a good rule.Sometimes they're like, did we contact them enough? I mean, we sent one statement. We, we called them, they said they'd pay it, but they never did call four more times. . Mm-hmm. . That's the rule. And then if they don't, then send it to collection. So, yeah. The amount of times of contacting a patient I think is a good rule to.Michael: Do you ever recommend like texting or emailing them or Jasmine: no? Yes. Um, now, in this day and age, take advantage of as many resources as you can. A lot of dentists have, dental intel. They have a payments feature. Practice by numbers also has a great payments feature. Um, I know we use our offices, if they have Weave, we'll use that on behalf of their office to text, you know, um, the patients and send 'em their bills.So, take advantage of, of that mailing statements is, gonna be a thing of the past Michael: now. Yeah. So then would you recommend, is that part of the six? So like, would it be like, . Then number two would be like text and th like that, or, Jasmine: yeah, yeah. Usually you can send an email and a text at the same time.That'll count as one contact, and then we'll follow up with a phone call and then send another email, text, um, we call, because we wanna make sure they're actually receiving their invoices. and if that method isn't working, we change it up, you know, especially if the patient's older, they probably need a mailed statement, so we'll, we'll change it up for them and send 'em a mailed state.Michael: Okay. Awesome. Any final piece of advice you wanna give to our listeners about medical and dental billing? Jasmine: stick with the pros. If you can't, um, do it or you feel overwhelmed with it, with your office, you don't have to worry. You know, you can outsource it. It's often cheaper than hiring a billing coordinator for your practice, um, or care than, you know, training someone to, um, do everything correctly.Hire, outsource it. If you can't, like I did, like I said with the verifications, we don't do verifications, but a lot of our offices outsource that and they see much more collections in a lower AR because of it. so yeah, don't be afraid to ask for help . Michael: Awesome, Jasmine, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her in the Dental Marketer Society Facebook or where can they reach Jasmine: out to you?Um, our website is www.versussolutionsinc.com. Uh, also on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, , everything there. So, um, yeah, feel free to reach out. We're everywhere. Michael: All right. That's gonna be in the show notes below. And Jasmine, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Jasmine: Thank you.‍

This Episode is Sponsored By:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareClick the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍Guest: Megan MorrisonPractice Name: Market Ridge DentalCheck out Megan's Media:‍Instagram: @marketridgedentalFacebook‍Other Mentions and Links:Wells FargoMedTechPractice Real EstateHEB - GroceryInvisalignAnnoSimsDentalPostIndeedNetflixIdeal Practices‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Great team culture is key. Patients can tell if there is tension between members!Sometimes growing slow and steady is the right path if it means good work life balance.Minimizing waiting time in the lobby and greeting patients with a smile goes a long way.Sometimes you're more of a therapist than a dentist. Help patients feel more comfortable by overcoming their dental fears.You will never feel 100% ready. Sometimes you just have to take the leap!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Megan, how's it going? Megan: It's going great. Thanks for having me today. Excited to be talking to you. No, thank Michael: you for, did you just get off were you just finished right now with your last patient or it's been a Megan: while or, I did.I finished up about five and rushed home and did something with my hair and here we are. Was Michael: it a busy day today, ? Megan: It was a busy day, which is a good thing as a startup. So yes, thankfully it was busy. Michael: how long have you been open for it with your startup? Megan: Yep. We have been open for a year and a half, so we opened in May of 2021, Michael: man.Okay, so rewind a little bit. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your past, your present, and how'd you get to where you are today? Megan: Yep. So I did dental school in Dallas. So I graduated in 2017. I practiced once, I graduated in Dallas as an associate for, a couple years, two or three years. And then my parents had moved to San Antonio.So that, that had always been the long-term goal was actually for my mom during my practice. So once they were in San Antonio, we knew that's where we had to be. So me and my husband moved. where I associated here for about a year and a half, and then Covid hit. So I decided when we were all off during that six weeks, what better time than now to start planning and, and getting the startup going.So that's what I did. I, I spent that six weeks planning and thinking about what kind of practice I wanted to have, what I want him to do. And a year later Michael: we were open. Okay. So you, yeah. We'll rewind a little bit more. Okay. You said you wanted to move into, San Antonio, cuz that's where your parents, Yeah, Megan: so my parents, they had moved here four or five years before I did. So I'm from Amarillo, so they were in Amarillo. My dad has a cousin that lives here in San Antonio and they do all their hunting and fishing and all their guy stuff together. So, they moved down here so that they could do all that stuff together.But my mom, she had started working in dental offices about the time that I started dental school, so that was always the plan for her to run my practice. Mm-hmm. . So I had to get where they. Michael: she like a, a ma, like a consultant or something, or? No, she's just, Megan: no, so she just, she's my front office.So she runs, she's my front desk, everything. She does all my insurance. She answers the calls. She's my reception, my office manager, my bookkeeper, she does everything. CPA also. But, she, she runs my office. So she started working, doing the same thing in other offices about the same time I started dental.Michael: Wow, that's really cool. Yeah. Okay. That's nice. It's, I thought you were from like, because you said you're in San Antonio, you've only been there for three years. I thought you weren't from Texas, so you should know where and everything is at cause. Okay, Megan: so South Texas is a whole other country, man.It's up in the Panhandle's, a whole other country by itself, so it's That's true. I'm Michael: still learning, but yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay, so then San Antonio, Dallas area. Yeah. You didn't wanna open your practice in Dallas? Megan: No, I didn't. I enjoy living there. I think Dallas is a really fun place to be.But it is super saturated. I mean, I wouldn't say here is too much better. But the most important thing to me was to be being your family. So that was definitely, that outweighed being in Dallas where I, I probably like Dallas a little bit better than I like San Antonio. But being near my family and having my mom to lean on and help me run the practice was a lot more important.Michael: Okay. What did you learn in your associateship while you were only an associate for like one year, right? You said? Megan: No, so I graduated in 2017, so Oh, okay. I've been outta school for five or six years now, so, I associated up until the last year and a half. But I assume your question was what did I learn in my associate positions?Is that what your question was? How many Michael: associate positions did you. Megan: Let's see. I had two in Dallas, one that only lasted a year, and then one I stayed in up until I moved, and then one here in San Antonio. So three altogether, the one that only Michael: lasted a year. Megan: Why? Yeah. So that one it was, Private practice ish.So he had three different practices. he run it more like a dsso. And I think any, any associate who's been in that position kind of knows how that goes. But I, I think for me, in that particular office, kind of what made me wanna leave it was it was a newer office and it was just really, really slow.So I didn't feel like there was opportunity for growth there for me. I was sitting there seeing maybe one patient a day. It was really boring. And I just didn't have the opportunity to practice my skills and have that growth. And so I, I found something, something. . Michael: Okay. And so in your associateships, what systems Yeah.Or things did you learn that you're like, I'm gonna take this into my practice. And then what stuff did you, I guess, learn where you're like, I never, ever wanna do this with my team or my Megan: practice? Yeah, yeah. So my second job, was in Lewisville. That practice was awesome. I really love the doctor that I worked for.I think she had a really great team culture. And that was one of the things that I definitely took away and wanted to have in my office, was a really great culture within the staff. Patients know if there's tension or if it's, if it's a weird vibe when you come in, the staff don't like each other.There's, all those. Negative things and negative energy. So that was really important and a really positive that I took away from her practice was really good team culture. I think my last associate job here in San Antonio, I learned the importance of what, how important leadership is and good leadership is, in that practice.I, I. many chiefs, you know, I think there was too many bosses and, and too many different opinions. And, um, when that happens, it's hard to have a clear focus and direction. And everybody up underneath feels that, and I think. A really good one. Solid direction and focus the way we're pushing and the way we're moving.I kind of learned how important that was, and just treating patients well. I will say I think my last two associate jobs, I didn't have the really bad horror stories that a lot of associate dentists do. I think my first one was probably my worst one. Uh, but my last two, I really don't have a ton of complaints.I think I was really, really fortunate. . But I learned probably more good things than bad things. But I think you can always take things, situations, and, and improve upon them. So that's always my goal. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. Gimme an example of that, leadership style, right? There's too many chiefs. Yeah. So. . Megan: This is super specific and I dunno what I wanna call them out, but I guess I be as specific as I can be.Mm-hmm. , um, and that, that particular practice, they had five different owners. So even for me as the associate there, I can think of a couple different times where one owner would call me, Hey, we need to do things this way. and then not an hour later a different owner would be like, Hey, no, that's not right.We need to do it this way. So I never felt like I had clear direction of, okay, how do you wanna be doing things? Do we want to set up the schedule in this way or do we wanna do it this way? And so that was for me, I just wanted to be able to call the shots and, okay, this is how we're gonna. And not be felt like I was being pulled in opposite directions or trying to please two different or five different mm-hmm.you know, Owners and who were kind of pulling in all different directions, because they really didn't get along and have, have a unified vision for things. So that made it tough. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Those owners aren't getting along. Then it's gonna be like, yeah, Megan, why didn't you do it my way? Or Why didn't you, I told you at this.You know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah, and you're the scapegoat. It's easy to blame. That doesn't go bad. Right. So then Yeah. In, in your. . What is good leadership? Megan: For me, good le leadership, I think. Is having good integrity. I think it's having good clarity. And I think my particular style of leadership I think is a little bit different from people.Like for instance, I am always in my room turning over rooms, cleaning rooms, going in the back, running instruments. I am working beside my team. I don't feel like I'm hierarchical working above my team. Mm-hmm. , That's just my style. I feel like there's no time. I always answer the phones if, if, you know, if I'm there and nobody else is, is around, or if they're all busy and I, I wouldn't have time, then I'm gonna be the one that picks up the office phone.And patients are surprised by that. Like, oh, you're answering your phone. Like, yeah, I was the one that was available, so I'm answering the phone. But that's my particular style. I think I prefer to work beside my team and along with them rather than above them. But that's, that's me. That's my style. Michael: Yeah.Like, With them shoulder to shoulder kind of thing. Right, right. I like that. Yeah, exactly. Rewind a little bit, and you said you felt like one of them didn't have great team culture. So in your mind, what's what's really great team culture? Megan: Yeah, so in my office we are always. Cracking jokes and we're laughing and we're happy to be there.And we join and genuinely enjoy each other's company. Like there's not like, oh gosh, here comes Dave. We hate him, or whatever. It's, this silly team, gossip or the, I always call it like the hens and the hens nest. They're, you know, somebody who comes in, they're feather feathers, get ruffled.Like, I hate that stuff. It's just so silly to me. . So just that, that great team culture of everybody's gonna help out, including myself, whatever the task is that needs to be, get, get done, we're all gonna pitch in. The job is gonna get done. And we're gonna have fun while we're doing it. Michael: So it's kind of like nobody's above anybody.We just, yeah. All gotta work together. Has that ever occurred so far to you where there's like a team member in your team where they're like, you just didn't feel it, instinct or that intuition where you're just like, it doesn't, it's not gonna continue to go good. Megan: Yeah, it has, and that was probably one of my, third employee that I had.And it just, it wasn't a good team fit. And it was kind of one of those things where I'm like, I don't enjoy being here. I don't, you know, it's just, personalities clash. And, so yeah, we ended up having to part ways, which was really tough. And I'm sure everybody who owns a practice is gonna have to do that eventually. I hated doing it, but it had to be done to protect the culture. So, Michael: yeah. What was, uh, what was happening? Megan: It, it was really, it was a lot of things with particularly, um, I. , their assisting skills weren't quite up to par and patients were complaining about kind of how rough that particular assistant was.we had several complaints about him and then personality wise, I think he was just kind of driving a lot of my other employees, kind of Gracie, just, it was just personality clashes. Nothing that he was particularly doing wrong in that terms other than the assisting was quite not up to par. But yeah, that's kind of where that one was at.Michael: Yeah. Do you w do you ever feel. I could have let go of that person sooner. Megan: Yeah. I think we probably all feel like we probably could have let go of those people sooner, but I tend to be give people lots of chances, Michael: yeah, yeah, definitely. I guess looking back now from that experience, what would you do differently?Like telling yourself now, like Megan, the same thing's happening right now, nip it in the bud, or what, what would you. Megan: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think we all have that gut instinct of this is just not gonna work in the long term. And listening to that instinct and, and acting on it sooner rather than later because I think being miserable in your own practice or feeling like that you're not comfortable in your own practice or that you have to.I don't know that you're just not liking being anymore. That's just miserable. So acting on those gut instincts and feelings sooner rather than later because it's gonna have to happen and might as well just get it over with and move on. Michael: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Okay. And then rewind a lot. Have you always wanted to own Sure.Uh, dental practice or this was just something where you're like, I can't find something that I want. So, yeah, Megan: so I think before I started dental school, that was my goal is to own a practice. . I had a lot of life events happen during dental school. I had big major surgery. I was married and divorced, and there's a lot of life that happened in dental school for me.So by the time I was done just on top of the. Hectic schedule, how hard dental school is on top of that. I was just tired by the end of dental school. So I just wanted to get out and work and make some money and have a more work life balance for a while so I didn't hop right into ownership, which I don't think many do right outta dental school,But I took that five or six years and worked and then kind of refocused and, and started back on on my. , did you Michael: ever pause during dental school or no? Megan: No, I didn't. Michael: I didn't. That's a lot. That's a could. Could I ask Megan, like, what was the Megan: surgery? Yeah, so I have Crohn's disease, so I had, I got really, really sick during my very first year of dental school, so I dropped to about 108 pounds.I was just very, very thin. and I had a partial small battery section. I think it was actually the week of finals during my first semester. So the dental school was great. They were really accommodating and let me reschedule all those finals to do them like the week before I came back for the second semester.But I think anybody who's gone through the first semester of dental school would probably agree. It's just, it was so hard and so tough that there was no way I was gonna repeat it. And I was like, we're gonna push forward. We're gonna keep going. Cause there was no chance I was gonna wanna do that again.Michael: And in that time, is that when you were also going through like the divorce and everything or, Megan: so I was, nope. So that was after, so I was married after that, so mm-hmm. , after my first year I got married and then I was divorced, I guess halfway through my third year. So I was married for about a year and a half.So yeah, it was a lot of life. Michael: So you got married and divorced in that? Megan: During dental school, . Yeah. So I was married after my first year in, divorced during my third year. So yeah, that is a lot Michael: of life. That is a, it Megan: is a lot of life. . Michael: how does that, I mean, how does that make you feel? But like, why do you think all this was happening?Megan: Uh, gosh, I mean, Oh, why, why did I get divorced? Why Michael: happen? Like, do you feel like, because I feel like with, with, you know, like stress flaring up and everything like that, maybe Yeah. Put a pause on dental school or put a po, you know what I mean? You're like, I need a, I need to focus on my health kind of thing.Cuz that was a big surgery. Yeah. Megan: yeah, I see where you're going. I think it was very life changing for me. All of that happened happening between the surgery and marriage and divorce. For me to kind of slow down a little bit and to not let all the pressure of everything get to me quite so much.I think that's obviously a lot of stress in dental school for everybody. And then on top of all those other things, it was a lot, a lot of stress for me. . So I think for me it was a really big lesson of, hey, enjoy the small moments. Take back, take a step back. Don't let life get quite so heavy all the time.And just kind of enjoy it as you go. I think life is, life is short and you better enjoy it while you're here. So I really took a lot of lessons away from that to not quite get so, so bogged down with everything. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Those are good lessons. Okay. And then now you're in your practice, right? Officially. . So yeah. Can we dive into the business part a little bit more? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Awesome. So then your loan, did you go with a specific bank or how did that go? Yep, I went with Wells Fargo. Okay. Why'd you go with them? Megan: So I. Looked at Wells Fargo and Bank of America, and at the time it was still pretty early Covid and Bank of America, I think was putting a pause on loans for a little while for general startups.So really I only had really one option that I was looking into since Bank of America was pausing, uh, was Wells Fargo. But I was looking into those two specifically because they have, they do a lot of dental startup loans, and they have really good terms. For those loans. So they have a kind of a sliding scale of how you're paying that out.So within the first year, your payments are smaller and they gradually get larger so that you're not really taking from your cash flow. Right on. So that's kind of why I was looking at those two options. Michael: Okay. How much was the Megan: loan for 500,000? Oh Michael: man. And then the interest. Megan: Interest on that, I wanna say it was in the high twos, like 2 7, 2 8, somewhere.That's pretty Michael: good. And then, so then in total, how much was your buildout? Megan: I wanna say that was around the 200,000 mark. It may have been a little bit less, but I did have, I think, 90,000 in tenant improvement allowance, so that helped a lot too.Michael: Yeah, that's really, really good. How did the build out process go? Was it smooth or was there major delays? Megan: Yeah, I got super lucky. I think. I know in a lot of places there was a lot of delays and things were way behind, but in here in Texas, it ran exactly on time. I had zero delays. I think there was zero hiccups.I was really fortunate. Michael: Nice. Who was your Uh, yeah, I guess contractor construction. Megan: I worked with MedTech, so I know they have offices and do a lot of medical buildouts. I don't know if they're just local to Texas, but I know they have multiple locations here in Texas, but that's who I went with. Michael: Okay, and then how'd you find your location?Megan: Yeah, so I did have real estate guys, so Practice real estate is who I worked with here in San Antonio, and they spotted, I wanna say it was maybe between six or eight locations that they kind of took me to. And we ran numbers and, and funny enough though, the location I ended up choosing my husband and I had kind of just driven around just.Daydreaming and looking at spots. And that's one of the ones that we found. We like, oh, I really like this spot. And that's the first one that we went to and the real estate guys were taking me around. And that's where I fell in love with. And that's what stuck, Michael: that's where you, is it in a location where, paint us a picture?Like is it in the shopping strip or? Megan: Sure. So there's a big shopping strip that's very close proximity, but there's like a big heb, so I don't know. That's a big grocery store that's here. I don't know where you, where are you at? . I'm in Michael: LA but I know h e b. Okay. Megan: Yeah. Yeah. So there's a big, yeah, there's a big h e b, uh, with a big shopping strip with a, and then I, right behind there is little individual professional buildings.So I'm on the street that's like right behind there. I can see the h e b like curbside pickup right from my office, but kind of right behind there in little professional, individual, professional buildings. Cool. Michael: Do you ever get a lot of h e B employees going? Megan: Yeah, we've had some, a lot of people that are like, I was picking up my groceries and saw you guys over there.But we've had some h e b employees, not a ton yet. But some. Michael: Okay. Nice, nice, nice. I like that. Yeah. So then type of practice that you have right now, is it like all p p o or are you planning to go feed for a service or general specializing in something or how does it look? . Megan: Yeah, so it's a general bread and butter dentistry.I do a little bit of Invisalign, a little bit of aesthetic cosmetic kinda type stuff, but, uh, overall it's, it's just bread and butter dentistry family, you see everybody. We are PPO o I'm only in network with about four plans. But we take all p p o plans and I, I pretty much run the PPOs as if we were in network.Now I'm sure that's getting in a whole bunny trail about insurance, but. , we do it a little bit differently. So like for our hygiene visits, I pretty much write off the difference, even if we're out of network. Except if their plan pays like $20 for cleaning and then I charge a small bid, but I write off a ton.So kinda trying to find that balance between being in network with insurances and not, and being fair to patients. So, we're kind of finding that that happy middle ground there. Michael: Do you let the patients know that, like, oh, we're just writing this offer. How do you let them. That we're Megan: writing off. Yeah.my mom texts them . Yeah. Okay, cool. We got your eob. Where, you know, that says you have this much Dr. Morrison's writing off, you don't have a balance. So Michael: they know Nice. And they're pretty happy with that. And they're like, yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, I like that. And then we know your mom's one.So how many employees do you have in your. . Megan: Yeah, so we're still really small. So my mom is my front desk office manager, insurance person. She does all the front desk stuff. I have a hygienist, a full-time hygienist, and I have one assistant and me. Michael: How is it like working with your Megan: mom? It's awesome, but I also really get along with my mom.I think you can't do it unless you really get along with that person. But we've, we've always been really close, like. . Yeah, we've always been super close. So, there was a small part of me that was worried about working with my mom and not knowing how that would be. I think you don't know how it's gonna be until you start doing it, but for us it's been amazing.And I know there's somebody up front that's doing all of the, bookkeeping that I trust. And it's, it's been really great and I feel really fortunate that we get to spend these adult years together. I think that's really cool. Michael: Yeah. Do you ever, has it ever happened, Megan, where it's one time where you're.Now, mom, this is how I want it. Yeah, this is, and then she's like, no, Megan, trust me. I know how it's gonna work. And you're like, Ooh, you don't get it. Has that ever happened? Megan: The first part, not the second part. So she is, , one of the humblest people you ever meet. Mm-hmm. . So I, there are plenty of times where I tell her, Hey, that's not right.Or, Hey, let's do it this way. And her response is always, okay, great. Let's try it that way. She's, I, I can't say enough good things about her. She's amazing person, but she's so humble and she doesn't push back. And in that realm, she knows I'm, my say goes . Yeah. And, and of course she'll have opinions about things and I listen to those opinions.But at the end of the day, she lets me do it the way I wanna do. . Michael: Yeah. This level of respect her, that's nice. You know what I mean? Yeah, Megan: for sure. There definitely is both, both ways. . Michael: Yeah. Has there ever been a situation where you're like, no, mom, I wanna like this, and then, oops, the way you wanted it was wrong?Megan: I think, yeah, she's definitely pushed back on certain things and I would actually say marketing was probably one of those themes. We worked with a marketing company at the beginning that. I don't know how to say this nicely. they definitely brought patients in. Mm-hmm. And that's really what we needed as a startup.And so that was really awesome that we gave her, getting patients through the door. The way they were doing that was definitely not what I would call ideal or the way that I would want to do it. And she hated their marketing. She hated what they were doing and she let me know about it. And I think probably in long term she was right about that.Michael: What was, uh, let me ask you this. What were they doing? No. Megan: I feel like I'm gonna say this and you're gonna know exactly what I'm talking about, but I'll say it. So Facebook ads is their main, main way that they bring in patients.That's their, their niche. Which I, I knew that from the beginning and they told me from the beginning, you know, we know it works. We are gonna write the ads the way we wanna write the ads, and we kind of just have to be okay with that. So, I had heard how successful they were about getting a patients in, and I know that's a really big stressor for a brand new startup.How the heck are we gonna get patients through the door? We have bills to pay from day one and we gotta get those bills paid. So I, I kind of took the, took the leap there and, and signed up with them, knowing that it may not have been exactly how I wanted to do the ads or how I wanted to do the marketing.So that being said their specific thing or their little niche is Facebook ads. So that's pretty much all that they do for marketing, advertising. But the way they word ads is somewhat. , Dr. Morrison is looking for 50 patients in the San Antonio area to help with their crown needs or for their denture needs.And what it's really advertising is for patients that don't have, like insurance. It's advertising our membership plan, which does give them discounts. But it's worded in such a way that patients think we're giving away free dentistry. So that's what's peaking people's interest. it definitely felt a little bait and switchy. It felt that way to me, and I think it felt that way to send patients who were calling in, being like, Hey, did I win, did I win the free dentistry? And that's not what it was advertising, and it didn't say that anywhere, but I could, I could understand why patients thought that way.So it was definitely attracting a certain group, but yeah. Which to me, I, I, I definitely moved away from as quickly as I could too, because a, I didn't. , it didn't feel true to who I wanted to be, who I wanted my practice to be. And I also felt like it was bringing up patients who genuinely had a really, really big need for dentistry.And I'm just, as a startup, not in a position to provide free dentistry, unfortunately. I wish I could do that all day, and I, I have the heart to do that. I wish I could, but again, there's overhead to overhead to cover. Michael: Yeah. Okay. And then your mom was the one who's like, Hey, let's, let's drop. But you were the one who was like, well, let's give it an extra week.Or, or how, how did Megan: that go? Yeah. I mean, so when you look at the number, I mean, we were really, really diligent about tracking who was coming in from what source. So if you pull up the numbers, they're bringing in people and they're, honestly, we're covering our bills. So it was kind of one of those things, it was kind of hard to pivot away from until we got a little bit more stable and got things up under our feet.Hard to pivot away from that. But I, I did Michael: when we could. Gotcha. If people reached out to you, probably would you let them know who it was or, yeah. Okay. So guys, if you guys wanna reach out to me, Megan: then, and, and I'll say too though, to their defense, I think they're, I really actually did enjoy working with them, and I think they're really good people and they are good at bringing people in the door right away.But I do think that you should know what you're getting into when you were getting into that. Mm-hmm. . Michael: Mm-hmm. . So then how long did it take for you to get. . Megan: Yeah. So, I mean, with their help, we were covering bills even two or three months into it. So we were covering bills pretty quickly. Now as we grew, overhead grew, so even now I'm still at the point of barely profitable.Even a year and a half into it. . And I will say too, I think part of that falls on me in the sense of, I think could I spend more time getting out and doing ground level marketing? I probably could. But again, kind going, going back to that finding balance in life and not getting so stressed out and focused.And that's, that's where I'm at in life. And I'm not gonna spend 24 hours a. on, on my business. I'm just not going to, so I'm, I'm okay with a little bit of a slower growth, which is kind of where we're at now, and it's a slow, steady, healthy growth. But am I, am I taking home the amount that I was making as an associate?No, not even close. But I'm, I'm okay with that because I have a good balance in life and I get to spend time with my husband and our three dogs at the end of the day, and we get to be nerds in video game together. And, that's where Michael: we. Oh. So if you don't mind me asking, what's the breakeven point, number wise, like you, in order to get here?We're, we're good? Megan: Yeah. Right now we're at about 40,000 a month. Okay. Michael: And so that's where you're at right now? Like this is our break. You're a little bit above that. You, you said? Megan: Our breakeven point is about 40,000 a month, so we're collecting maybe 41, 40 2000, like barely above it. Michael: Okay, gotcha. Yeah. And.That's, but you're doing the slow growth. Well, I think you're just growing great. I don't even think it's like slow growth, but you're growing great due to balance, right. At the same time. Yeah. Because what you've learned in the past. Yeah. How do you turn it off then Megan? cuz you're a business owner, right?So it's not like, yeah. Going home and turning it off and then that's it. It's Friday, turning it off. That's it. Do you, yeah. Ever turn it off? . . Megan: I, I think I'm fairly good at it. I think my phone is always by me, and if my patients text me or message me, I am responding to them. So that part I don't turn off.I think, I think that's part of the, the beauty of my practice is that if, you know, if a patient is having an issue, I'm gonna respond to them. I'm not making them wait until the following workday or whatever. I'm, I'm gonna respond to them. Now if it's a scheduling issue, yeah, whatever, I'll, I'll respond to them on Monday.But if they're having a, a. Tooth issue or something going on, I'm responding. So that part I don't turn off. But the rest of it, I think I'm fairly decent about turning off. I think it's always somewhere lurking in the back of your head there. I don't think it's always, I don't think it's probably ever possible for most people to completely turn it off.. But yeah, like I said, me and my husband, we are, we're big old nerds. We'll come home and play our video games and kind of tune everything else out and, yeah. So I think it's important to enjoy your life and, or it is for me, so Yeah, that's, I do the best that I can. Michael: Are you both playing games like in the same room, or does somebody go like in another room and you're like, Megan: Hey, no, we have, yeah, I could, I could show you my setup right now, actually, we're at it, but we just built out my office.I have my computer and he has his computer right next to me and we game. Michael: Like you, have you built out a gaming office? Yeah, we did , , Mayhan. So you guys are like real what games? Megan: we just started a new one. We, we played PC games, so we started ano, I dunno how to describe that one. It's a sort of a city building planning kind of sims esque, but you're not managing the people, you're managing the town.It's like the 18 hundreds you're building this, the, the houses and the, I dunno, it's fun. But yeah, we play different computer. Okay. Oh, Michael: I thought you had played the same one. Okay. No, nice. That's nice. Megan: Okay, so yeah, yeah, no, we play the same one together, but I just mean different ones at different times. But this week, yes, we played together.So we'll play like online co-op. Michael: Ah, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. So then, right now, Ryan, a little bit back. You found your employees right? You have, how'd you find those employees? . Megan: Yeah, so I think my two that I always go to is gonna be Dental Post, which I know is not everywhere. But in Texas it's pretty successful.So Dental Post. And then Indeed, indeed is the other one that I've used. But I do think that I probably had more luck with dental posts than indeed, but I have found people through Michael: both. And right now, the team you have, I mean obviously your mom, right? But like besides her, the team you have, would you say.they're building blocks. Like they're, they're fantastic. I'm gonna build, they're my foundation. I'm gonna build on top of them kind of thing. Yeah, Megan: absolutely. Yeah. I think I have a rockstar team right now. My assistant has been with me since opening, and he has been in dentistry for like 15 or 16 years now.So he has been doing this for a really long time. He is really good at what he does. Yeah, he's, he's awesome. And then my hygienist is fabulous. Uh, she's an awesome team player. She's super fast, but really good at what she does. She's really good at communicating with patients. she'll jump in and, you know, if my other assistant's busy and she's gotten up and a new she'll hop in and assist me, like, we're all just really good team players, which is super important to me.Michael: Nice. And how many days are you Megan: open? So I just changed my schedule up this year, which I'm also super excited about to an alternated four week schedule. Hmm. So we'll work like Monday through Thursday one week, and then Tuesday through Friday the next week. So every other weekend we have a four day weekend, which is this weekend.So, yeah. Michael: So then well, what do you do on a four day weekend? Megan: A whole lot of, nothing , it's the best. Or gaming. Gaming. I mean, that's nothing. So . this weekend I actually do have a trip to Austin, planned for a wedding shower.But yeah, usually nothing. Michael: No, that's nice. Uh, whenever you come back from these like four day weekends, do you ever feel like you're, man, oh snap, I'm missing out. Or not missing out, but like, oops, uh, there's, I forgot to do that and this, and this slip my mind and all these things, right? Or do you come back and you're like, Refresh your mic, like almost like a creativeness kind of come back.Megan: Yeah, so far the latter. Now we only started this in January, so it's still pretty new. But so far the latter. I feel like it has been really good, I think, for all of our mental health to have that little step away to kind of recharge batteries and not feel like we're just at the office constantly. So, so far it's been really positive.Maybe you can check back with me again later this year and see if I still feel that way. . But so far I'm really enjoying Michael: it's. Check back. You're like, we're on a five day, Megan: we're off for five days, sleep better one day a Michael: week, . One day a week. Oh my gosh. It's productive. So then right now, what system would you say is unique in your practice that you're really proud of?Whether it's like the handoffs, new patient experiences, marketing, anything like that. What Megan: systems would you say. . Yeah, I think I, I really do like our new patient experience. So, when patients come in, whoever is seating them, whether that's my hygienist or my assistant or myself, that patient gets a tour of the office.When they're set down, not just new patients, but every patient we have. So I have TVs at the foot of the, the chair, and they're, I have like a little Canva that says, it's all blue and it says, welcome to Market Ridge Dental, and whatever their name is, welcome to our practice. Mm-hmm.So it has their name up there at the foot. So they feel like, Hey, we, we care that you're here because we do. . And then the other thing that I think is super cool that we do with all of our new patients is that we scan them. So we do a digital scan of all of our patients. I have an IRO scanner, so, before I lean my patient back, I'm going through, you know, I'm pulling up the top teeth and I'm, I'm going through tooth by tooth and showing them their teeth and then go through the bottom teeth and I show them all their teeth and we look at the bite, so that they can see their teeth before I even lean them back.cuz that's a super vulnerable position too. So I think that kind of, I'm, I'm sitting there chatting with them while I'm looking at their teeth. Hey, where are you from? What do you like to do? That kind of thing. Uh, just while I'm looking at the digital skin of their teeth. So I think it's kinda a, a good icebreaker and kind of a build trust moment before, before I even lean them back.Michael: Hmm. How long are your new patient appointments? Megan: Typically about an hour and a half. Okay. Michael: And so, yeah, more. , that's when they're you're doing everything. The new patient experience. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then normally, how many new patients are you getting a month? Megan: So before I cut off my, my marketing company, we were doing about 40 to 50.I'd have to look at my numbers to see, since we cut off the marketing what, what they were. But I do think they were a little bit lower, maybe 30, 35 right now. But before we cut off the, the marketing team, we were getting about 50. Michael: Okay. So right now though, like 30. 30 to Megan: I think 30, 35 or so. Yeah. Okay. Michael: With the marketing company that you were getting, were there a lot of like, uh, what?Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? They got the free thing or they got, they came there for something specific, they're like, bye. And you never saw them again. Yeah, for sure. Oh, Megan: okay. Yeah, it was a lot of those, and I think. Yeah, exactly. So they were looking for the deal and they come, they get whatever deal they think and they're out the door, or they got in the door and realized it, it was not free and never saw ' 'em again.That happened a lot too. So, yeah, I think now kind of turning away from that, we're getting fewer patients, but patients that are gonna stick with us for the long haul, which is more what I would like to do. You know, I'd like to build relationships with these people and get to know them. And, so that's, that's more what I'm looking forward.Michael: So then right now, what are you currently doing for marketing and advertising? Megan: So right now I'm kinda an in between. So, my cousin actually does SEO for a living, so I'm kind of letting him take over that side of things. I'll probably be doing Google ads with him pretty soon too. I have not figured out the second part of that.So, I am actually meeting with a marketing company tomorrow, a local marketing company where I'm gonna kinda see. What, what plan they have laid out, what the, what the cost is gonna be on that, and kinda make some decisions from there. But I'm kind of in a little bit of an in between right Michael: now. Okay. I mean, you're, you're still getting 30 to, you know what I mean?Like how many ops do you have? Yeah, Megan: I have four that are, uh, equipped. I have six total, but four that are equipped right now. Michael: Okay. So you're, I mean, you're busy, you know what I mean? It's not like you're Yeah. In a lull. The whole week except for like two one day, you know, Megan: so it, it's, Chris schedule's almost full.So, I mean, we still have, I still have plenty of room to work patients in and see patients as they call. Like I can still work in a new patient within the same week. But no, we're, we're, we're still pretty busy. So it, it's good. . Michael: Okay. What would you say, Megan, is the unique thing about your practice that has your community talking about you?Like if, if I were to say like, Hey, I just came from my dental office, right? Or my, my dentist, it's Megan. And they're like, oh, cool. What I, what do you want me to be saying to my friend about you? Megan: Yeah. So I think, I think the biggest thing is how we treat people, right? So we're a super small office. You know, when you walk in, my mom is right there, greeting.one of the nicest people ever. She's super sweet to everybody or when they call on the phone, right? And then how easy we are to get ahold of, you know, when they, well back up a little bit too. My, my office, my waiting area in my office is super tiny. There's like four chairs in there, so people are not waiting, when they come in mm-hmm.they're getting right back and there we see them. We know we respect people's time. We're running on time. People are not waiting for hours at a time. And how easy we are to get ahold of, like I mentioned before, you know, if my patient is gonna call me or text me with something going on on a Saturday, I'm getting back with them.Which is is not very common anymore, I think. But yeah, I think, but the biggest thing to me is how we treat people. I mean, we're, we're kind to them. We're not judging them. We're giving them options, letting them decide. It's a no pressure environment. We're just kind to people. Michael: Yeah. I like that. Being kind.I like that too about that, the waiting room. I mean the, the room where it's like, I guess like the lounge area or whatever you wanna call it, cuz you're not really waiting. Yeah. I remember so many times, like we were always talking. What kind of coffee should we provide them and everything. And I'm like, the last thing I wanna do before getting my teeth checked is have coffee, breathI don't, I'm not gonna get that. Right. Like that's when I floss the most and brush my teeth and most before I see my dentist. Yeah. So I wanna make sure that's perfect. So you wanna get in there quick kind of thing. Not like sit there and then drink your coffee and tea then, right. Donut or whatever. So I like that.Where real quick. Yeah. Okay. Throughout this process, I guess from the moment you were in dental, . So today, what's been some of your biggest struggles or pitfalls? My Megan: biggest struggles. I think I probably didn't realize how much of a therapist you have to be on a daily basis to your patients. Cuz there's a lot of people who are really afraid of, of going to the dentist.And helping them overcome those fears and making them feel comfortable and, helping them get through those procedures. I think I did not have a good grasp of, of that. So kind of learning how to be that person and helping people overcome those things. was, I mean, I think, I guess we all learned how to do it.Hopefully we'll all learn how to do it. But figuring that out, I think within running a practice, I think just learning how to juggle everything because it is a lot, just a lot of balls in the air at one time. And just learning, like I said before, learning to find that balance. Michael: that's true.Yeah. How do you, how do you help your patients overcome peers? . Megan: Yeah. So the biggest t

Companies don't stay small on purpose. So how can you scale faster? Anu Hariharan (Gusto, Instacart) discusses the growing pains of going from start-up to success, how to grow as a builder and a manager, the importance of ruthless prioritization, and shares new technologies to help SMBs unlock their operations, and customer support.    LINKS & MENTIONS FROM THIS EPISODE Tech to help SMBs: Brex https://www.brex.com Stripe Atlas https://stripe.com/atlas  Gusto https://gusto.com/product Amplitude https://amplitude.com Mix Panel https://mixpanel.com Live Flow https://www.liveflow.io Keeper https://www.keeper.app Plan Grid https://construction.autodesk.com/products/autodesk-plangrid-build/ Mutiny https://www.mutinyhq.com Canva https://www.canva.com/ Other Mentions by Anu: DoorDash https://www.doordash.com  Faire https://www.faire.com  NVIDIA https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/ Boom https://boomsupersonic.com Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System by Satoshi Nakamoto https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf   CONNECT Learn more about Anu's role as Managing Director of YC Continuity Fund https://www.ycombinator.com/continuity Anu on twitter https://twitter.com/anuhariharan Anu on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/anuhariharan/ Brent on twitter https:/https://twitter.com/BrentBeshore Brent on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentbeshore  David on twitter https://twitter.com/DavidACover David on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-cover-318752230/  Visit https://www.permanentequity.com/ for more Sign up for our weekly newsletter for operators, Permanent Playbook: https://www.permanentequity.com/newsletter  Sign up for a new daily newsletter from our very own Tim Hanson, Unqualified Opinions: https://www.permanentequity.com/unqualified-opinions    TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Who Is Anu? 5:00 This One Time at Capital Camp 6:19 Characteristics of a Successful Founder 11:01 The Two Stages of Scaling 13:02 Biggest Mistakes Founders Make 17:12 Hiring From the Outside vs Internal Development 20:37 Learning How to Deal with People 20:04 Builders vs Managers 27:16 How to Hire a Builder 30:39 Why Do Companies Fail? 32:35 What Silicon Valley Has Lost 34:51 Dealing With Stress 37:22 What it Takes to Succeed  40:47 Helpful Tech for SMB 46:54 Emerging Technology 48:33 Lightning Round Hariharan Hot Takes 60:43 How to Win in 2023 and Beyond 64:24 What Drives You 66:36 Where We're Going 68:01 Legal Disclaimer   EPISODE CREDITS Produced by David Cover Intro music by David Cover, Andy Freeman, Rhett Johnson, & Andrew Luley Outro music by Jees Guy   LEGAL DISCLAIMER This podcast is made available solely for educational purposes, and the information presented here does not constitute investment, legal, tax or other professional advice, and should not be construed as an offering of advisory services, or as a solicitation to buy, an offer to sell, or a recommendation of any securities or other financial instruments. The thoughts and opinions expressed by or through this podcast are those of the individual guests and speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Permanent Equity. The discussion on this podcast of any entity, product or service does not imply an endorsement thereof, and the guests may have a financial interest, whether through investment or otherwise, in one or more of any such entities, products or services. This podcast is presented by Permanent Equity and may not be copied, reproduced, republished or posted, in any form, without its express written consent.  

‍In this episode, Crystal May, from Devdent, details some of the essential tips and tricks around medical billing and how it can help your patients afford the care you recommend! At Devdent (Developing Dentistry,) their mission is to take the headaches out of medical billing, claims, and any appeals along the way. Crystal shows that with proper billing procedures using medical, a $10,000 treatment could be much more obtainable and affordable for your patients. She notes that it is less about "what" you are doing, but "why" you are doing it, to qualify for medical billing. If a patient's tooth is missing, and that is the reason why they are unable to chew, the procedure might qualify for medical billing!‍Follow Crystal and Michael's conversation here to learn more about how your practice could utilize medical billing!‍You can reach out to Crystal May here:Email: support@devdent.comFacebookDevdent Website‍Other Mentions and Links:‍Imagn Medical Billing SoftwareRed, white, and blue card (Medicare)Blue Cross Blue Shield‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Crystal, so talk to us about medical and dental billing. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with doing medical and dental billing? Crystal: Absolutely. So medical billing is quite a bit different than dental billing. a lot of people are scared of it.They're intimidated. Maybe they've heard horror stories even that it takes forever to get paid or it's not worth the energy. And really my mission is just to explain to dentists how it is not as complicated as it sounds, and it's certainly worth the effort. So we get thousands and thousands of dollars of reimbursement from medical insurance for dental services. Many dentists don't even know that it's a possibility to bill medical for dental. Treatment, So when you think of an implant or a bone graft, you might be thinking, well, dental insurance might cover a little bit of that, or there might be that $1,500 per year max benefit available. But what if we could tap into their medical benefits?So when you start talking about, especially larger procedures, if your patient portion is more than $5,000, we know that dental insurance doesn't make a very big impact in that patient portion, They're still gonna be spending at least $3,500 out of pocket after they use all their dental. So the combination of adding medical billing to your dental practice allows your patients to be able to afford the care that you recommend.Taking a large treatment, 5, 10, 20, $50,000, and we can get medical insurance to pay sometimes a hundred percent of those procedures. So it's really about. Identifying the medical necessity. So you see a patient and you're trying to figure out which insurance should I build? Should I build their medical, should I build their dental?What? What are my options? And so what we do is we teach Dennis how to find the medical correlation. So when I teach about medical billing, I use the statement a lot. It's not about the what you're doing, it's about the why you're doing it. So if you can prove that there's a medical correlation to your dental, So let's say again, an implant, for example, if you can't chew because of that missing tooth, then that's a medical condition and we can actually build medical for that.Or what if you've lost that tooth for a medical reason? So maybe you took a medication that caused dry mouth. So now all of a sudden you had acid erosion and just all this enamel was gone because of this severe dry mouth. Well, we can prove the medical insurance that you are losing that tooth because of a medical condition.So it's just about the why can we tie back something that's going on inside of the mouth to the rest of the body or something in the rest of the body that's affecting the oral cav. Michael: So then once we identify the dental necessities and we decide, okay, we're gonna bill medical, right? Which sounds beautiful.Like, we're like, we wanna bill medical. Where do we go from there? Crystal: Wonderful question. So it all starts with the insurance card. So it doesn't matter how perfect the medical necessity is, you've got this patient that desperately needs this treatment and you can prove that it's directly related to an a medical condition.If the insurance policy doesn't offer dental treatment for any reason. There's nothing we can do. So sometimes our best doesn't trump the payer. Okay? So the medical insurance determines coverage. Also, remember your patient chose that plan. A lot of times we get really like emotional about how we wanna help our patient more.And darn it, this silly medical insurance won't do much, but remember, Your patient chose that plan, so they're paying a lower premium to have a higher deductible or less coverage. So, you know, we can't own that. We just have to say to them, unfortunately, the plan that you've chosen doesn't have medical benefits available.Also, let's say Medicare, so everyone knows who, what Medicare is, right? It's, it's generally thought of as a, as a 65 or older plan. . Medicare's changed a lot over the last decade, and we are getting some coverage for dental treatment through medical, red, white, and blue insurance cards.They're actually paying dental offices, but you have to sign the right paperwork. You have to be participating. So you look at the card. If it's a red, white, and blue card and you're not participating, you simply hand the card back to the patient and say, unfortunately. This plan won't pay anything here at our office, but let's say it's a good plan.You get a card and you're like, Ooh, I know that one. I think they might cover benefits at this office. You then start with the verification of benefit. So we reach out to the insurance company and we ask them for details. What's the deductible? Are there any plan limitations? Does this plan cover dental treatment for these scenarios?Maybe you're treating sleep in your practice. Well, medical billing for sleep appliances, by far the most common procedure that we bill. So you ask specifically, do they cover sleep appliances? What that end of that call? we give back to our clients a summary of coverage and we'll actually say, yay, ur nay, this plan makes sense, or this plan doesn't.Assuming it makes sense to Bill Medical. Because we've called the payer, we verified there are benefits available for these services. Now the next thing is to talk to the patient. You give them their treatment plan with all their treatment options and with all their payment options. That's gonna include potentially dental, right? Because we're still gonna build dental for class two fillings. We're still gonna build dental sometimes for the crown or restoration. Some plans only cover the implant under medical. So we're still working very closely to maximize all of the. Insurance benefits, medical and dental. And then assuming the patient wants to proceed, most of these procedures I'm talking about do require pre-auth.So we would actually then start the process of getting authorization to, to treat this patient. Um, and if that's approved, which we're averaging about 75 to 80% approvals on pre-auth. So it's a good high. As long as it's approved, then you complete treatment and you submit the claim the same day you finish the treatment.So it's really not that much different than what we do in dental, with the exception of, most dental team members are not familiar with these insurance cards, so they have to learn how to look at them and read them. Michael: Gotcha. Okay, because I was gonna ask you, why aren't people doing it more then? Well, it's Crystal: not easy. Okay. So I don't wanna make it sound like, oh my gosh. Like all you do is take a copy of the insurance card and you've got a gold ticket, right? That's not it. . You have to code it correctly. You have to have the right documentation, you have to have the right submission tools. So most of our dental practice management softwares do not include enough information on medical to even use them. when customers come to me all the time, they're using any number of the large practice management companies and they're saying, well, they say they have medical. But if you read the fine print, it's very limited. They might allow you to print out a claim, but these claims to medical have to go electronically. So one of the things that causes a little bit of an obstacle is do you have a submission tool? Do you have a way to get these claims to these medical payers? Not dental, but these medical payers electronically? So I think that's one of the obstacle. But I'd say more often than not, the biggest thing is, is dentists and dental team members don't even know that they can bill medical.It's not even so much they've tried it and struggled. It's just their, their minds are blown when I show the potential. Michael: So then what submission tool should we have or would you recommend, or how did that work? Crystal: Well, so there's a couple of different options. Some the, the manual way and the less expensive way is to go to some of the, uh, payer portals.So you could go to Blue Cross Blue Shield, for example, and you can manually submit a claim directly to them. So that does get you your electronic submission. But it doesn't provide you tracking or any automation. It's very manual. Um, the option that we provide is actually a software solution. So Dev Den offers a system called Imagine Billing, and we are a cloud-based medical billing software built specifically for dentistry.So all of our clients are dental, and everything in the software is directly related to something under the dental category. So with our solution, We have the clearinghouse connections and all the electronic communications to kind of take the technology piece out of the equation for the customer. Michael: Okay.So if I was front office right now and I'm, and let's just say there's a implant, right? That needs to be done and you're like, okay, we're gonna check that out, and stuff like that. And then you realize, okay, there is a necessity. It does, you know, the whole body is affected and things like that. I'm new, but I know dental billing, right?But if I have dev. I can just use that and then it like kind of scans it out. Crystal: Pretty much, so we built a cross code tool so you can go put a patient's entire dental treatment plan. So there's c d T codes into our software. It cross codes as it to medical forward for you. And then it also adds the diagnosis conditions that are required.So it, it really takes the coding component entirely out of it, which is a lot of fear. The dentists aren't necessarily scared about the coding because generally speaking, that falls on an office administrator of some kind, right? Mm-hmm. . So when I talk to them, they're always like, oh my gosh, how will I know what codes to use and how do I do this Crystal?I don't even know these acronyms. And so what we've done is just take away a lot of that. We've just allowed them to stick in their dental codes. So you use your C D T code, we cross it for you. We show you what documentation is required. And then part of our training program as a new customer is we teach them how to read those insurance cards.We teach them exactly what to look for. We go over case presentation and how to present estimations to their patient because you know, you now have to explain to the patient their medical benefits and if it's scary and new to you. now you don't feel like the smartest person in the room anymore, and we don't like that feeling.So we wanna make sure that our, our office admins are always the smartest person in the room when it comes to their medical insurance benefits. and then we offer, um, a lot of coaching on your clinical documentation. So, many dentists haven't looked at their clinical notes in a very long time, so they use auto notes.There's just sentences that are just click, click, click and prefilled out. Unfortunately, medical, I. Spends a lot more time and attention when looking at clinical notes than dental, so we have to do a little better job. So we teach our clients exactly what documentation they need and how to incorporate it into their everyday dental process. Michael: So then typically crystal, when someone signs on how much do they see an increase in like their collections or product? Crystal: so across the board, we have 80% success rate on all of our claims submission. That's including the worst claims out there. The best claims out there. 80% is our average approval rate.But what we're finding is patients are accepting treatment. At a faster rate because they can now afford the treatment. Imagine you had a $10,000 treatment plan and you got presented $1,500 from dental, and you were gonna owe the $8,500 difference. Now imagine I present that same $10,000 treatment plan, but I explained to you that you have to meet your $3,000 deductible and then you have a hundred percent coverage.So now that treatment plan costs the patient $3,000 instead of 85. We all know that there are far more patients who would be willing to pay 3000 than nearly 9,000. So that's the story we tell. That's the, the, the purpose of medical billing is to help patients access the care that they need. So historically, we're seeing about a 20% case acceptance increase with cases over 5,000.So if you're a $5,000 case and we can decrease patient portion, at least 20% more of those patients are proceeding with treat. . Michael: And then what headaches can we encounter with. Crystal: You're dealing with insurance, ? it's just the insurance companies. It's nothing else. The, the conversations with patients is quite easy.They're just excited. They're just really feel great that their dentist is willing to go above and beyond to help them get more, more access to PA care. Right. They're, that's what they care about. Even when deductibles are in play, even if the patient gets no actual payment from the insurance company.There's gratitude for helping them access their deductible in these medical benefits. But so that's not the obstacle. Never the patient, uh, it's never the coding. We can teach the coding. It's, it's just one plus one equals two, right? Mm-hmm. , it's not challenging. but it's the insurance payers. One minute one payer says this.And literally the next claim, we call back and we'll get a different response. So the quality of representatives that are answering the phone are, are quite low. They haven't been well trained, they're not very familiar. So you get really inaccurate information will literally be told, yes, we'll pay for this.And so we submit the claim with an approval number and they'll deny saying We changed our mind. So then we have to appeal it. Now again, a huge benefit of working with a company like DevNet is we do all of that follow up. So when you submit a claim through our system, we're responsible for it all the way through the process.So we are the ones on the phone with the insurance companies arguing these approved prs or these denials and things like that. So I would say the first initial obstacle is just understanding the I. Knowing which plans pay what and why. And then I think the forever frustration is that we're just dealing with insurance companies and they are not in the industry of wanting to pay claims.Their goal is to slow down and reject claims as quickly as possible. Michael: Yeah, retain that money too. Crystal: Yeah, that's their job, right? So we're kinda going against, against a big force in that sense. The good thing is, is there's a lot of rules and regulations. Insurance companies cannot just choose not to pay. And so when we know all the proper paths to take and all the right words to say, and all of the right, you know, if you will, threats to make.They finally process our claims. So we do have some tools in our, our toolbox to help us make those go faster. But I would say to anyone who's getting into medical billing or is considering it just, just pre-prepared for the first few months to be exceptionally frustrating, these medical payers will not recognize you.They won't recognize your M P I and tax ID numbers. There's gonna be a slight delay. Usually if you can get past the first 90 days, if you can just stay with it. Be diligent. Follow our program. By the end of 90 days, you've pretty much got a system in place that's working. . Michael: so Dent is a program or is it like a software that I can utilize forever? Crystal: dent is an education and distribution company. So Dent stands for developing dentistry. We just are here to pri find solutions that help dentists improve their practices and improve patient care. So that's our mission, is to just provide tools and solutions for dentistry. One of the tools we provide is Imagine Software.So Imagine is a cloud-based software that handles these cross codings and handles all of this documentation. And behind that is a third party billing company. So we actually facilitate the entire billing process for our clients. Michael: Okay. Awesome. Awesome, crystal, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you? So Crystal: you can always find us@www.devnet.com. We've got some awesome resources, re recorded webinars, tutorials, demos, everything you could possibly want to see. We have some awesome programs going. You can check out our Facebook page and you'll see success stories and just a whole program we've got specifically to different types of dentistry.And then if you want to reach out directly, you can reach me@supportdevdent.com. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. And Crystal, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thanks for having me.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍‍Guest: Avi PatelBusiness Name: Clear Aligner AdvisorCheck out Avi's Media:‍Instagram: @doctor.aviYoutube ChannelClear Aligner BootcampFREE Masterclass SignupDental Associateship Reflection Videos‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Converted - Neil HoyneNew York UniversityTrader Joe'sWhole FoodsInvisalignEnamel DentistrySlackVoices of Dentistry Conference‍‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:If you're taking on an associate, be sure to set clear expectations at the very beginning!Having systems in place to show what happens when, and how to do it, can take a lot of stress off of an associate.When treatment planning with a patient, always address their chief complaint and how the treatment will solve this.If you let your profession guide you entirely, you may not find as much fulfillment!Try investing in your education, automation, and systems, so that you can perform your job without all the headache.There are clinical-minded dentists and business-minded dentists. You may find that owning your own practice isn't for you if you favor only clinical work!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Avi, how's it going man?  Avi: It's going pretty good. How are you doing? Pretty good. If you don't mind me asking, where you located? I am in Austin, Texas.  Michael: Oh, nice. Home of Salt Lake  Avi: and, yeah.  Michael: Yep. I forgot the other donut plate. Round Rock donuts. But that's in  Avi: Round Rock, right? Yeah, Those are both great. Where where are you based out of?  Michael: Los Angeles. Okay. So, yeah. But my family's in, we, I grew up in Texas. We all live in Texas, but more like in the Houston area. Okay. Uh, but Nice. I know, like lately, how much has it blown up lately? Austin.  Avi: So I'm part of the, uh, the blow up, I guess, . Cause I, my wife and I came here about two years ago. Oh. Uh, and we came from New York, so Yeah. It's like California, New York, everyone, just met in Austin. But no, it's, uh, a lot of the, like a lot of my patients who have been here for a while, they all say like, it has changed completely. Like, we live downtown, in downtown. I call it like the millennials playground. You've just got, The ECUs restaurants, bars, like, whole Foods Trader Joe's. It's awesome. Yeah, . Nice dude.  Michael: Nice. Awesome. So then Avi, tell us a little bit about your past, present. How did you get to where you are today? Avi: Yeah, so I grew up in Florida. And went to dental school up at nyu and after I graduated, I didn't do a residency, I just went straight to practice. I wanted to get a sense of what real life dentistry looked like, and so I jumped in and at that point I was practicing in Connecticut as an associate. and I got like a real heavy dose of reality Um, Basically I was in and out of Associateships every couple year or every couple months. And you know, at the time it was, it wasn't that great, but, you know, looking back, it, it kind of gave me an opportunity to see how multiple. Different office, like how multiple offices practice. And I learned very quickly that not everybody is not doing dentistry. From a practice, from a clinical side and a business side, the same. Everybody's doing it a little bit differently. Some people are better at certain things than others in terms of practice owners and how they're running it. I just had kind of like my learning cap on, so every opportunity I was just trying to absorb as much information as I could. Always trying to learn whether it's from the owner themselves, from other associates, right from. Office managers to kind of see how like, the front works and stuff like that. And, it was good, but it was nothing like I had imagined. I thought that I was gonna come outta school. you know, I thought I was gonna find a mentor, they take me under their wing, they teach me, show me all the ropes. And then, after a year or two, I would be this like all-star dentist. But I, it was a lot more of like balls in my. and I had to make the most of every situation that I was in. Mm-hmm. . And so that's what I did. And so I was doing that. And then you fast forward a couple years was in two private offices and then the pandemic hit. And so at that point I was already starting to burn out on dentistry because of the procedures that I was doing were your basic kind of crown filling, just very bread and butter dentistry and. I mean, I was two years outta school and during the pandemic I was just kind of like, this is not good . Cause I had just got, just got going and I had $500,000 of student debt. And, uh, I wasn't, wasn't too thrilled about what I was doing. So then I kind of just started to look around and, and see what I could do. And that's where I. Started to just invest in education, invested in education, invested in myself, learned how to do, uh, implants, and then I dove into Invisalign cuz I was already certified, because I went to nyu. And for me it was more just like I wanted to find something that would just kind of get me excited again, uh, to do, to do dentistry. So, Pandemic's happening. And then uh, go back to work. and then the office owner actually I told them, Hey, I took these courses, would love to implement them. And uh, the owner actually told me that they didn't want me to implement aligners cuz they didn't think it was profitable. we had like a proper meeting and stuff about it, but that was the gist of it and that kind of surprised me because everyone that I had talked to about had said good things about aligners and at that point I had worked at like 10 offices. in the Connecticut area. And so my wife and I decided to move and relocate. We heard great things about dentistry in Texas. Uh, we loved Austin. So we came here and I actually joined A D S O, so they were a smaller D S O and um, they were fully supportive of me doing whatever I wanted, procedure-wise. Mm-hmm. , so. They had an iTero, they had an implant system and they were basically just like, you know, go crazy with this thing. So that's what I did and I tove in, uh, I started placing implants. When you first place implants, it's all about like case selection and, it's definitely, I mean obviously a surgery, so you're not doing crazy stuff to start and you just kind of are building your confidence and stuff that I did and that was nice. It's like an adrenaline rush when you're doing implants, and I loved it. and then I also started doing aligners and I started like 50 cases in my first six months. And so, that's like 250 grand in revenue given that each case is, $5,000. So that was like eye-opening for me because it's almost like a, a switch flipped in terms of Feeling more passionate about what I was doing, like I was actually making a difference. Providing a procedure to patients that is changing their lives, it's improving their oral health. you know, It's night and day from when they finish treatment to when they start. And then I also got more time and freedom, in my life because I got, align. It's not like a very like labor intensive procedure. It's a lot more of educating the patient, selling the case, and then setting up the case on a computer. , then assistant places the attachments on and you kind of essentially just like cheer the patient on throughout treatment and make sure they're motivated and, and wear the aligners. And then when you're done, you just polish the composite off and get 'em into retainers. And so that was awesome because now I was making more money. I had more time, and I just felt very aligned with what I was doing. So I took that feeling. And I wanted to share that. So I was working with another dentist. He had about 20 years of experience. Practiced as an owner before, and then him and his wife moved from California and then I started just showing him how to do aligners. And he also started to feel the same thing. And he was, he started doing like 10, 10 or 12 cases a month. And he, he basically said that, uh, he wished he'd started doing it earlier because it completely changed the way that he practiced. I also helped out some of the other doctors in the, in the organization, but then I went to leader. and I told them, Hey, I would love to just have like a, a legitimate role in the company where I could just be like this in-house, call it director of, you know, of aligners and just like coach up all the doctors cuz they had about 35 doctors in their D S O. And they liked the idea of it, but it just wasn't. Aligning with kind of what they wanted to do, and they just wanted me to focus on doing the dentistry in the practice. So at that point I was pretty bummed. And then my wife told me, she was just like, you pretty much know what you're doing in terms of coaching and teaching. She's like, why don't you just start a consulting company and consult with that test? So, I started doing that, I created a consulting company last year at the beginning of the year, and I started working with some docs and um, one of the docs I worked with, they had zero experience doing aligners. They're a practice owner. And they understood the value of having aligners in their practice and they wanted to do it. And so I worked with him and then he basically went from zero cases to 25 cases in his first two months. And then he's been able to kind of carry out At least like 10 cases a month ever since. Because with aligners, once you know how to do it, once you, once you start doing it, you don't stop. It's like a dentist that places implants. They don't stop placing implants. Like once they learn it, it just becomes part of what they do and they continue to do that. So that was awesome. And then, Then the consulting thing got a little crazy because man, like working full-time and trying to schedule time with other doctors full-time as well was tough. And then I stumbled upon this concept of like creating an online course mm-hmm. To, you know, make it real scalable to, to be able to reach and help more doctors, but then also not have to spend so much like time with the scheduling and all that. So, Fast forward, to middle of last, uh, middle of last year. Yeah. And I created a uh, online training program for dentists. So it's brand agnostic. It is for meant for general dentists looking to start implementing aligners. They can have either zero experience or just a little bit of experience and. They can basically watch these modules. I've created about four hours of content and it helps coach them through everything, from what cases to select, how to talk about it, how to set it up pretty much like A to Z, what you need to know to get started. And then I also include monthly, coaching in the program where, , they have an opportunity once a month to meet with me. We can discuss, cases, any questions they have, all that kind of stuff. And it's been awesome because it's really started to take off and grow and it's allowed me to cut back on my clinical days, and I've been able to now focus on this, this online business essentially, that I've created. But it's, uh, it's pretty cool. you know, I may not be seeing as many patients as I used to, but by teaching other dentists how to do this procedure, I kind of get like a little piece of being able to help, a bunch of patients all over the world. And it's, uh, it's a feeling that I didn't know existed. Cuz if you would've told me two years ago, like, Hey, you're gonna create a training program and you're gonna love the way that it feels to help and teach, I would've been like, you're crazy. Like, why would I do that? Like, I'm just. I, I, I just, I think growing up I never actually understood, what it meant to like be an educator and then now being on the other side of it, it feels awesome. So, yeah. And then, the other thing I think is kind of how we connected was through social media. I started just putting out clear aligner content. On to my Instagram page. Uh, I even have a YouTube channel now. And just trying to get as much information out there to other doctors as possible and then help 'em wherever I can. Nice  Michael: man. Okay, so real quick, let's rewind a little bit, right? you mentioned that you were already burning out in dentistry because of the procedure that you were doing. What were those procedure.  Avi: Fillings, crowns, extractions, some root canals. I didn't really go crazy with root canals, but yeah, that's pretty much it. Michael: Those were the ones where you're like, I don't wanna do this ever again. Yeah,  Avi: yeah. It's like you do it and then it's like, it looks good on the x-ray and then comes back, and then it's, it's just, I don't know. I, I, I have slowly come around to them, so I will do them here and there, but, . Yeah. Like a lot of dentists out there, I was just like, I would rather let the specialists do this procedure. Michael: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay, so then you dove into Invisalign or Clearliners, right? Invisalign and then implants. And then you joined A D S O. who's D S O? Did you join  Avi: Yeah. So they were smaller. They were called what was it called? I remember the office name. The office name was Rose. and then they ended up selling to a bigger one.  gotcha. Yeah. Are you still with them? No. No. So I am now at um, a smaller group practice yeah, they're called Enamel Dentistry. That's where I'm at now. Oh, enamel  Michael: Dentistry. I may know. I don't know. So then when it comes to right now, you worked at how many as an associate? what are some things you can take away? Like what are some things that you wanna tell, like practice owners, like, Hey man, y'all need to chill out with this. And then like, Hey, do more of that. Less of th Yeah. What are some things you learned?  Avi: Yes. It's funny you say that. I literally have an entire playlist on YouTube with like my reflection from every job. So definitely they can check that out. But no, it's, uh, I think the biggest thing is like above all, like, remember that your associate is also a doctor and they're also a person. And I say that because, when you treat a colleague like a person, you're gonna treat 'em a little bit differently than you would if they're just someone that you don't really care about. And I'm not saying like, you know, you need to get all emotional and affectionate and whatnot, but like little things like be a professional. if you're gonna let somebody go, don't text. them. They did that to you. Yep. Uh, if you're gonna let someone go, don't, don't give 'em a phone call. T talk to 'em, tell 'em face to face and let them know why you're doing it with, you know, with the notice and honor it. Like, just be a professional. and, and the other thing too is like if you actually. understand your business, which I believe a lot of practice owners don't. If you actually understand your business, you should be able to set goals from the beginning when you bring on an associate and have expectations so that way the associate understands what's expected of them. Because if you don't tell me what you, what you really need out of an associate or what you're hoping to achieve, I can't help you. And so then you fast forward three, six months a year later, and now the owner. Internally has an expectation of their associate. And the associate may not be living up to it, but if that was never communicated, then know, nobody's gonna win there. If you are hiring an associate to just do all of your fillings, be straight up about it. just say, Hey, I am doing a lot of surgery. I'm looking for a dentist who is willing to do all the basic restorative in the practice. I think dentists are afraid of losing candidates because if they say that, that may scare some people off. But guess what? There are so many associates out there that would love to go to a practice and only do restorative. So I think they need to know what they want first and then communicate that. And then I think you're gonna have less turnover because when everybody knows what's going on, then the partnership is, much more likely to last longer. those are a couple things. What else? I really, I, I really love it when practices have systems and like really good systems and like, literally like order of functions, just kind of like, Hey, This is how, you know this is how the staff operates. Like these, this is how we set up. This is like the handoffs. It's not whenever, it's like too much freedom. I take, what I've learned is like if there's too much freedom in a practice, then there is no system, right? Because now you're relying on the associate to kind of piece everything together. And that's frustrating because when you're an associate, I do think you need to, like, they should be allowed to have autonomy, but they should be able to have autonomy in the system that's already created. Otherwise your business is not efficient. Ah,  Michael: that's smart dude. That's smart. Yeah. Cuz I feel like um, that happens quite often. You just feel so overwhelmed and you're like, look, I got extra cash coming in. I know I need an associate. Or maybe now or eventually, Hey, do this man just, just help me. Right? You just kind of say that, like, just help me with the load. But in reality, , I guess you never really, like you said, dove into like your business and being like, what do I really wanna do? Not wanna do you think it's cuz they don't have time. Avi: So I think what it is, it's this whole thing where, and this is my theory, is I think a lot of dentists who are practice owners, rewind. You have to go all the way back to like when they graduated dental school. And then I think what happens is they go through associateships. a lot of dentists come out. Some definitely want to be owners from the get-go. those are the ones who have the best practices and systems because they are entrepreneurs and business owners, and they just went to dental school to have a dental degree and then like, there's two different types. And so you've got your, your business minded dentist and you've your clinical dentist. And what happens is the business minded dentist dominated in terms of being a practice. and those are the ones who have like, a bunch of practices as well, or maybe just a couple well oiled machines. Then you've got your clinical guys who go out and what happens is they go and they go to a couple of these associateships and then they get burned by some owners, Things like the owner will take procedures off of the associate's schedule and like really fill. Their own schedule before they fill the associates. So that's another little takeaway is owners, if you hire an associate, leave treatment on their schedule because you make 70% of what they do. So fill their schedule before you fill your own and everybody wins because you'll have a happy associate that's busy and you're literally gonna make 70% off of what that associate does, and you don't have to do anything. that's another like mindset thing. But going back to. What happens is they go out, they'll have maybe a couple associateships, they'll get burned, and then they'll get frustrated and they'll be like, okay, screw this. I'm just gonna go open my own practice. And they have zero business, business education. And then they go and they become a small business owner overnight because the bank just hands out money and then they open up a practice and then they don't know what the heck they're doing. And all they really wanted to do was, they just wanted a place where they. Practice dentistry in like a, and just focus on that, right? Like if you talk to, I'm sure you talked to a lot of dentists and a lot of 'em just want, I just wanna do the dentistry, right? Mm-hmm. , and, and so they, their only solution in their mind is to go open their own thing. But then now you've just like opened the door to an entirely new career, and you're not even, you don't even have your feet grounded in the one career that you have as a dentist. And so now it's just like you, you're terrible at being a business owner. And then what happens is that cycle just. , it just keeps perpetuating. Cuz now they're the business owner and the doctor that's an owner. And then they hire an associate and then they traumatize that associate because they don't really know what they wanna do, being the owner. And it's just, it's bad. Again, this is not everybody, and this is not every practice I've worked in. It's just what I've seen and what I've heard from, you know, from colleagues and it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's like a vicious, it's very vicious. No, a  Michael: thousand percent, man, I, I hear that all the time. When. , you know, like I just wanted to do it on my own terms, my own dentistry, you know, I didn't want people to tell me what to do, buy my own technology or whatever kind of thing. And then, you know, now they're, they're stuck with that only option. Mm-hmm. , well, I guess in the community that they're in, what would that be? On the only option if they're like shopping around associate, associate, associate and then you're like, there's no, there's no other place I have to do this. That kinda the only option. Avi: it could be. But my thing is also is I think you could kind of get creative with it, again, there's no such thing as like a magical associateship, but I do think with even just the rise of DSOs and just opportunities out there, I think if you know, as a clinician what you want out of a practice, and you can put your ego. Because a lot of these, a lot of dentists want to be like the person in control, But like, with great power comes great responsibility and a lot of 'em can't handle it, right? Mm-hmm. . So it's just like, maybe check your ego at the door. If you just want to be like a, a clinician, then you can find a place where you can have a role, like a specified role to do that. Like they exist. I know they do. I've seen it. and that's why you have some associates who love their job. . they're hyper focused on what they do, and they're really good at it, and they've just found a home. And they're not the owner, right. Or they're not the, the, the number one top dog. But they're okay with it. Yeah.  Michael: Do do you think you'll ever start your own practice or No. ,  Avi: uh, I don't know. I think I'm gonna start like a movement or something. , before I started practice . I'm looking to make, yeah, I'm, I'm looking to make an impact, I think right now. Yeah. My focus is definitely the, the aligner training program. and then, uh, yeah, I, I just, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not crazy about practice ownership. I've. , think I could do it. I just don't have an interest in it right now. Gotcha.  Michael: Okay. Gotcha. One little bit, you said you were let go through text, right? You were let go through a phone. Why do you think you were let go? Avi: So the reason why I was let go through text is because that owner, so that practice, the agreement was that I would be part-time and I was originally, he wanted me to work every Saturday. and I was like, dude, you're crazy. I was like, I one, why are you open every Saturday? And then two, I was, this was the first time I ever heard about it. I was like, dude, I can't work every Saturday. So I was just like, I just need like a couple days. And then, so I was working like two days during the week and then we agreed to like every other Saturday. and it was actually kind of messed up because I was doing it and then this is like right around when I, uh, took that implant course and I gave him a heads up. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna take an implant course. Is it cool if I. You know this, it's gonna be a couple Saturdays, so I'm not gonna be able to make some of those. But then when I come back, I would love to implement the procedure. And so he was fully set up for implants and he was like, yeah, absolutely. He, he's like, you should always invest in yourself. He's like, the more you can do the better. And I'm like, sick, this is gonna be awesome. And I did it. I got the, I was doing the implant course and I'm on my, like last day, like the second to last day of this course. and then I got the text from him and he was just like, Hey, we're gonna let you go. you haven't been working as many days as you originally did, and so we just really need Saturday coverage. Mind you, I've been there for almost a year, so I was just like, I told you that I was gonna do this, and then, and then no response Can that even happen? it Ha, it happened .  Michael: I'm like, it happened, man. Dude, that's crazy.  Avi: I got the text, I looked at my wife and then I was like, I guess I'm fired. And she's just like, what? And then I was just like, yeah, like, and I showed it and then never heard from him again. Man.  Michael: How long did it take you to find another associate after that? Avi: So after that one I was like dropped on a. . And then I started looking in Austin. So then that's when I just started cold calling offices in Austin. I called like 30 practices. and get this, like, nobody works on Fridays in Austin. , like every practice I called, they were like four days a week, like Monday through Thursday. And I'm like, damn, that sounds good. And like, everybody's like enjoying themselves. But no, I, uh, I tapped into my network and then I connected with this Dsso within like, it took me a couple weeks. It took me like two to three weeks to really kind of, to find it. But um, yeah. Okay. Michael: Yeah. That's good, man. That's good. All right, so then let's talk about that aligners. I know you have like, you know, you do the consulting chorus as well, right? let's open up like Pandora's Box a little bit. Teachers right now, if you can, from someone going from zero cases where they're like, I would love to do more align. How can we reach to 25? Like what are the instructions and steps that we need to get to?  Avi: Okay. So in a nutshell, you have to simplify it, right? So the biggest thing is like, you cannot a lot of these dentists, these general dentists that you see doing a lot of cases , they're doing it not because they're taking on every ortho case that walks through the door, but they have over time taken on these simple, straightforward cases, gotten good results, and they've gotten confidence to then continue to do them first thing is you gotta talk about it, start talking about it with your patients. So once you know the cases that you can treat, which are basically cases that I refer, I'll just say it, I refer class three cases, bilateral posterior cross bytes. Deep by cases greater than four millimeters. and teenagers, Those are all the cases that I refer to the orthodontist. Off the bat. I have a conversation with the patient about their issues and then I refer it. So then that way they're more likely to see the specialist and get the treatment that they need. Everybody else is pretty much fair game, so I then have a conversation in, the hygiene exam. and they show the patients, we have a scanner. You definitely need a scanner. If you wanna do aligners, have to have to have to. And I show them their scan. I educate the patient. I talk about oral health. I do not talk about cosmetics. Mm-hmm. . And then I I believe in the treatment. And so when I believe in something, and as any dentist, if a dentist believes in it and they talk to their patient from a place of belief that it's going to improve that patient's oral health and life in some way, the patients are way more likely to accept it. it's that simple. it can be scary because it's something new. But it's that simple and that's how you start. And then um, and then I would say get a mentor, right? And, and cuz that's what I did. I, I pretty much did it. And I got a mentor, Dr. Christina Blocker. She helped me out early on, like setting up cases. sure not every case was perfect off when I first started. Uh, I definitely made some mistakes. Everybody does when they start something new. but you have to just have the confidence to continue to push forward because, you know, with ortho it, there's gonna be patterns. And so when you take on a certain number or certain types of cases, you're gonna see certain patterns it, it's honestly easier than doing a composite class two filling. and it's a lot of fun. I like it because you get to, you get to see a patient's. Entire mouth transformed. most of my patients that come out that were bought in for the oral health aspect and they complied, they come back and they're just like, doc, I actually floss my teeth now. And I was like, oh, wow. And then they're like, I love it. They're like, I can't not floss my teeth. Because they're like, I can feel it. They're like, I feel the difference. And so that's why I love, that's another reason why I love aligners is because it's like this daily, it's this daily kind of like accountability. , You take them out when you eat, when you're done eating, if you don't brush and floss and you pop them back in, all the food between your teeth, you're gonna feel it, right? Yeah. So patients will, they'll take out their liner, their brush, they'll floss, they'll put it in. So you got patients that are flossing and brushing like four or five times a day for eight months, and then when they're done, you're just like, Hey, you only have to brush twice and floss once. And they're just like, , it's, that's so easy. And so it's like this habit that gets built and it's just like a beautiful, like comprehensive way to just treat your patients.  Michael: What are some, I guess, mistakes you've seen along the road where that maybe like some of your clients or people have been making where you're like, no wonder, no wonder you haven't reached or passed this threshold or breaking point or,  Avi: Uh, I think it's lack of education. I just think a lot of dentists are doing it, not really knowing what's going on. Honestly, because it's like what happens is, and I blame the aligner companies for this, is they make it seem as though it's as easy as scan the patient, upload the records. , they'll give you like a, a simulation and then you just hit accept and you get it. Like, that's what I thought when I first started. And there's, I bet there's a bunch of guts listening right now that are shaking their heads, and agreeing, or they're, some of 'em probably just like, wait, that's not what you're supposed to do. No, that's not what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to accept that first treatment plan. You have to make modifications, but you're not gonna know what modifications to do. , you know, you've been taught. So that is something that really helped my confidence and accelerated, my ability to do cases is because I kind of knew the guardrails, right? I knew, I was just like, look, I just don't wanna cause any harm to this patient and I wanna improve the current situation. How do I do that? And so it was by knowing what to do and what not to do, and. . after you do them. Like I said, you find the patterns, you get more comfortable with it. But the biggest thing is, yeah, as people accept the first treatment plan and they, they don't know that you're not supposed to do that. Michael: So then I guess, how do you, how do you go from there? You don't accept the first treatment plan. You're like, okay, I'm gonna continue to make, where's the guardrails? Yeah, where's the guard?  Avi: Yeah. So for those, you always focus on the chief complaint. Basically what are you trying to solve, right? Like, are you trying to just fix the crowding on the bottom? Are you trying to close spaces? Are you trying to, you know, the patient doesn't like the way their teeth stick, like flare out and they wanna bring that in. So it's all case dependent. But then once you know that, then you need to just, make sure you're making the movements. that are going to achieve that result. And you're eliminating the movements that are not going to help that, cuz that's what happens is essentially what happens is you submit a case and an algorithm kicks back to you. The result and the algorithms programmed in a very general sense. You as a dentist have to make the modifications to personalize it and customize it for your case. basically to answer your questions like, okay, so we're, that's literally why I created my program because there really, unless you have like another doctor helping you out, like there's not really that many, things out there resource wise that are accessible for dentists. There are some like in-person courses like Dr. Galler, uh, hi, his course is, , you know, but it's an in-person course and there's a wait list. So I, I think it's, money well spent to take his course. But you also need to know the basics before you go diving into that because, um, you can go there and, and, and learn all that, but if you, you don't know how to like, have the conversation and implement it, right. You're gonna struggle. So yeah, it, it's crazy like this, the world of aligners, it's, it's starting to take over. , I think it's already made its way into obviously the dental industry. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, But at this point dentists have to have to skill up and invest in learning how to do this and bring it into their practice. And there's so many different resources out there. And there's gonna be even more in the future, I believe.  Michael: Okay, man. Nice. So then production wise, how much can someone expect collections and productions to, for example, let's go with that case study from zero to 20.  Avi: so each case is, I believe they were charging like 48, 75. just for the treatment. And then I think they charge like 700 bucks for the retainers. So that's like 55, 75, I mean, it's around $250,000, right? No, 25 times five. No, that was like a hundred and something. . No.  Michael: still? No, I mean, like, that's a, huge amount, you know? and how much is like your, your course or your consulting? Avi: So yeah, so right now I'm not doing the consulting, I'm just doing the course right now. My course is a thousand bucks. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's in intro pricing. Definitely gonna be raising the cost. But it's a thousand bucks. You. Like I said, all the modules to learn how to do this, you get the cheat sheets scripts for the team, teaches everybody what to say. I go over some like insurance stuff, like people are always kind of confused on how to bill for it. I, I cover that. And then I also do a year of training, right, the year of monthly coaching. So let's say you take the course and then six months later you're like, oh, like I have a bunch of cases. I dunno what to do. You can hop on the monthly call and then I can help you out. So that's my way of. being able to do like a group coaching type situation. But yeah, I tell doctors, I was just like, if you're serious about doing aligners, take my course. You will definitely start at least one case after, uh, and that you've already made your money back plus some. Michael: Yeah. Okay. Nice man. I like that. So then, right now, what do you think a dentist can do today to improve their.  Avi: A dentist they can do to improve their business. I think they can invest in systems to help automate as much of their business as possible. Cuz what that's gonna do is that's gonna lead to less stress for them. Cuz when things are systemized and automated and there's protocols, it just has a trickle down effect and it just will oh, bring them a lot more peace. , And then they should also invest in education. Because the more procedures that you can offer, You know, The more services right, your, your, your patients are able to kind of take, take up and do. So whether it's aligners, whether it's implants, whether it's Botox go learn this stuff. And I think the more the experience, dentists kind of know this, but the, the ones who may be younger or just may not have been thinking about it as much. You, uh, you went to dental school to learn how to not hurt people. And after that is where you actually learn different skills and procedures and techniques and you can learn it from people who have done it and you know who, who it's worked for them, it's worked for others. So, yeah, those are the two biggest things that I would say they could do to improve their business. Michael: Nice man. Okay. Okay. Awesome man. So then if we wanted to reach out to you, where can we.  Avi: Uh, easiest place would be Instagram. Uh, my handle is Dr. Avie and Doctor is spelled out. I also have the YouTube channel, but yeah, if you wanna reach out to me, just shoot me a DM on Instagram. easiest way. Okay. And what's next for you? Michael: Do you plan to do lectures, like workshops or how does that, like, or do you, I mean, you already said you didn't wanna own your own practice,  Avi: but like yeah. So yeah. So right now, right, I, I've got this online training program. I think what's next is growing that as big as I can, trying to make as big of an impact. And then after that, I really want to try to find a way to help dentists out, uh, on the mental health side. The, the depression, the stress, the suicides, all that stuff, because I've seen it, like I've been in that dark hole of dentistry that a lot of dentists have either been in and gotten outta or are still stuck in. I don't have like a real stat, but I would, I would say about 70 to 80% of dentists have felt some form of depression just because of the realities that, that we face as being dentists, especially when you're early on and, I wanna be able to, to create something and, and, and help people help other dentists rather, either work through it or. Or, or completely avoid it if possible. So that'll take me time. But yeah, that's, that's next. That's where like a deep passion of mine is.  Michael: where were you when that happened to you? Like what, why was that happening to you?  Avi: So this was like, uh, like right before the pandemic, and it was just because I was in and outta so many jobs. I was in and outta so many jobs and I couldn't, I couldn't hold an associateship for like three to four months. Right. I had like, I was burning out on, on the procedures and I was just kind of like, did I make a mistake becoming a dentist? Like this sucks. Like, I thought this was because for me, like my uncle's a dentist and I actually wanted to be a dentist because of him, because I saw the life that he was living, like he was able to like help his patients. You know, His patients loved him. He was able to just good do good work. He worked great hours, great family. He was able to golf. He was, he was living a very, like, good and comfortable life. And then I became a dentist and I was like, oh, can't wait for that to happen. And then it's just like, , I started looking at the realities. I'm like, okay, so $500,000 in debt. making like 125 grand a year. Uh, like I'm in and out. Like I, I'm doing shit that I don't even like, like I was just like, where is this fun? Like when, like when does this get fun? ? Yeah. So, yeah. And that's when I, I just like invested in myself, right? And I was like, okay, I need to learn something. I need to do something. Cause if I just let the profession guide me, the profession was, was not going to help me. The only person who's gonna help you is yourself. And then ever since then, I had like a mindset switch. And now I've just been following my passions and, you know, it's been like a progressive thing, right? . The first passion was the procedure, Was aligners, and then the next passion was teaching, which is now, which was then the consulting, which is, you know, has now morphed into the online course. And so that's kind of what I'm doing. Like I'm just, at this point, I'm like, if I just follow the passion. I will be happier and I will be in a better place than where I was previously. And I think a lot of dentists have to wall off their passions or they feel like they have to wall off their passions. Because the only other examples really that they have out there in terms of like what other dentists are doing is this whole model of like, okay, I. Graduate dental school being associate, okay, now I need to get my own practice. Okay, now I need to get five practices. Okay, now I need, you know what I mean? And it's like mm-hmm. , there's other ways to do this. You just have to pause, out what lights you up and what makes you want. , to get up every day excited. Some people it's, it is running multiple opposites. Some people love that. Mm-hmm. , some people love, just wanna do insane, crazy, cool surgery. Some people just want to kind of like coast and chill. Some people want to be entrepreneurs and, have a side hustle and create something outside of dentistry completely. I think it's all possible. I think we have to stop lying to ourselves and, and stop telling ourselves that, there's only one way to be successful as a dentist. Because it's just not true. Yeah.  Michael: I think that's where sometimes the depression can come in, right? Where you kind of mm-hmm. because you hear a bunch of things of it. You hear like follow your passion. Then you hear people like, nah, follow the work. Right? Like what? Make it work. And then another thing, no, follow your talents, right? Then everything else will fall into play. So you're like kind of picking and choosing the, the road you. You think you're good at something, but then you find out 80 billion other people are better at it. And you're like, well, that's not my talent. Oops. So should I have gone the other way? And it gets confusing, man. It gets confusing.  Avi: And then it gets lonely too. Like dentistry's lonely. Like a lot of dentists are practicing by themselves, you know, sometimes they do get to practice with another dentist or such. So it's that's the other thing is like for me, Yeah, it got lonely too. Like I didn't, all my friends, like I went to NYU and all my friends, like, pretty much, we all graduated and scattered. A lot of them went back to California. Some were in Canada, some were, they, they went up to like Massachusetts and stuff like that, and, and it's just like it's very easy to get disconnected, from your peers. And so that's why it's super cool when I see these other communities out there for, for dentists. Um, It's awesome and I'm actually pumped cause I'm going to a conference tomorrow, voices of Dentistry and I'm excited to just meet other dentists, just meet 'em and see what's going on and, and so that's the other aspect of my program. is, uh, I have like a Slack community as well, and it's just a, another space for like-minded dentists to just kind of like be together and, and connect with each other. And so I'm hoping that also continues to grow and, kind of how these other communities have, like their meetups and conferences and stuff. So, we'll, we'll see how that takes shape, but I think more than anything, like if you're a dentist out there, , if you're feeling lonely, you just need someone to talk to. Like, you can hit me up. We don't, we don't have to talk about aligners or growing your business like we could. We could just, we could just, you know, we could just talk. Uh, it's always cool meeting people because I feel like a lot of us are, are going through or have gone through like similar things. sometimes just Feels good to know that you're not the only person that's experienced it. And then kinda just hearing ways to kinda combat your situation. Yeah.  Michael: Kind of sounds like you fell in love with. or you really enjoy doing a procedure right now, but you're more in love with the mental health aspect. You know what I mean? Of like, we really gotta get this thing to blossom somehow, but right now what I need, you know what I mean, to, for my mental health is the, uh, director of liners or that thing, you know what I mean?  Avi: Correct, correct. Yeah. No, and that's the thing is I think it's a stepping stone, right? It, I think it's, uh, something of value that will generate. You know, You, you're gonna have happier patients. The doctors make more money after they take the course, obviously. Like I get to make some money off of it too. But it's a step, it's like a a means to, yeah. To this greater, this greater thing. I could get on stage and start motivating people, but like, who the heck is this guy? , you have to kinda establish yourself first. And that's what I'm doing. I'm just in the process of, doing that. But by the way, I'm the director of aligners that that didn't work out. That's what I was hoping would, would be a thing at that dsl. But yeah, right now I'm, I'm just kind of building my own. I'm just calling you  Michael: that right now is the Hey, he line . You know what I mean? Like of his own thing, you know what I mean? That's cool. Awesome. Avi, man, I appreciate your time and real quick again, let people know where they can find you.  Avi: Yeah, on Instagram my handle is Dr. Avi.  Michael: Awesome guys. So that's gonna be in the show notes below along with everything else that was mentioned. And Avi, thank you so much for being with us. It was a pleasure. And we'll hear from you soon. Awesome.  Avi: Thanks for having me.

‍In this episode, Susan Laine, from 180 Dental, gives us her three best tips for a smooth and easy billing process!‍Determine Your Business Type - You can register as a sole proprietor, s corp, or pc business. If you are planning on having associates, it may be beneficial to incorporate, rather than use your social security number for tax ID!Input Incoming Associate Data - If you have an incoming associate, getting their tax and credentialing information in your practice management software as soon as possible will offer the smoothest transition!Inactivate Old Providers - This can be a handy way to transition practice ownership in software such as Dentrix, Eaglesoft, or Open Dental. Inactivating the old provider when bringing in the new provider, allows them to pick up where you left off in a seamless schedule transfer!‍Listen in on Michael and Susan's conversation to get more in depth on these three topics and more!‍You can reach out to Susan Laine here:Instagram: @180dentalFacebook180 Dental Website‍Other Mentions and Links:DentrixEaglesoftOpen DentalSole ProprietorS CorpPC - Professional CorporationLori I OwensNPI - National Provider Identifier‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍‍Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors) Michael: Hey Suzanne. So talk to us about medical and dental billing. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions can you give us that will help us with doing medical and dental billing?  Susan: I have some ideas, some suggestions. That is for any office. Mm-hmm. , you know, my company, we specialize in Dentrix, Dentrix. and my company goes in and we do a lot of transitions. So what I'd like to pinpoint today are three key things that will help a startup or somebody who is thinking about bringing in an associate to make sure that, one, they're getting paid. Two, the associate is getting paid and they can track their numbers. So, . The three things that I really wanna highlight, one is how you're setting up your company as a pc, an S corp, or just a sole proprietor. You know, as a new dentist comes in, they have a choice. Mm-hmm. , it is recommended and you know, I think Lori Owens and some of the other people out there would definitely agree. setting up your company, which is your dental practice as an S corp, has specific tax advantages, and it also gives you some long-term down the road advantages because if you set yourself up as a PC or an S corp, you're not using your social. as your tax identification number. You're also, able to set it up as a type two N P I, and that is very beneficial, right from the startup. But again, even if you're already in your practice, you've had your practice for a while, you're looking for an associate, if you set up your tax ID as having a type two m. , you can bill under that entity and then your provider can change. For instance, like if a female dentist needs to go on maternity leave and she has a locum tenants come in for six, eight weeks, they can bill under the tax ID for the corporation, the type two n p. With the new locum tenants provider, and there could be a contract in place for that specific timeframe. Hmm. And it doesn't need additional credentialing. It doesn't need W nine sent for each and every claim during that six to eight week period. Or you know, I had a, I had one of my clients who was an avid golfer, he ended up needing back surgery and was out for five and a half weeks and in a back brace. Mm-hmm. and came back very slow. So he had a contract for a locum tenants and it was still bill out under his type two. And it worked out very well. As long as you have your contracts in place to do it that way, there's a lot of legal. loopholes that you can use. But I do suggest that you always, and this is a startup or a, you know, an individual practice that's already going seek good legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, but there are really good people out there that can advise you in that is just a suggestion. you know, with that in mind, when you have somebody come in and you're paying them on either, collections or product, You wanna be sure that you are paying them what they should be paid. And in Dentrix well and Eaglesoft and Open Dental, you wanna set that person up before they ever enter your practice and see a patient. , for instance. Um, a transition. This is what my company does quite a bit in transitions, is when we know that there's negotiations, we will get the credentials of the incoming dentist, his N p I license, d e a. We set it up in Dentrix and we can build his schedule and build it up. months before he ever sets foot to see patients so that there is a smooth transition. Your schedule is full. You have, you know, no lag in production. Well, you're gonna have that here and there. The sooner you set up a new provider in your system, the better it is with scheduling, the easier it is to get them paid in a timely manner and know exactly. how they should be paid. Figuring out, you know, if they want, if they want 35% of collections, what is that per day? You wanna look at that backwards and do the calculations mathematically to make sure that you have the production on the schedule. The third point, I'm just gonna close with today. is, I wanna talk about, the process within inactivating old providers in Dentrix, which is where my love for software came from, is with Inactivating, that old provider, you can reactivate a provider after you move the patients over. I just did this again for another office. They purchased on 1231, brand new dentist came in. We set up the transitioning senior dentist as an associate, and we closed everything out and moved all the patients to the new purchasing doctor. We reactivated the seller as an associate, and now all of. Finances cuz he purchased the ar. Mm-hmm. are under the corporate, the schedule is under the new doctor. And this can be done in Eaglesoft, in Open Dental. It's just understanding the software, understanding how you wanna structure your business. So those three things are really gonna help out any dentist, whether you're a startup transitioning with a senior doctor that is moving out as retirement encroaches, or if you're bringing on a brand new a. you wanna look at those three key things to really help set yourself up for success. Gotcha. So  Michael: these three things, how do, I guess, how does that ease the process? Also with the billing part?  Susan: With billing, especially with the N P I. Mm-hmm. , you can credential your type two. , and again, when you have a locum tenants come in, it continues under that tax id, and you don't have that lag in claim processing as long as you have it set up so that you have it in writing and you have that temporary doctor coming in and everything is already on the claim for that provider. So, , it helps get you paid timely without having to delay and say, who's this? We don't understand who this person is. Mm-hmm. ,  Michael: what are some of the most common mistakes when it comes to utilizing Dentrix or, or, or doing this right here? When, when it comes to like the, the yang of the, uh, I guess like the three processes that you mentioned. Susan: I have had to go in and run audits on some offices that have utilized a sole proprietor's social security number when they have somebody come in temporarily and one, you're paying the taxes for all of that income. , that's a negative. You don't wanna have to pay self-employment taxes on all of that income. Two, the provider that does the service legally has to be on that claim. Mm-hmm. , you cannot legally do it any other way other than listing that provider. So I've had to go back through and audit for the insurance companies in the past, and it is, an infraction, and there are fines involved and it can be construed as fraud. Mm-hmm. , but I hate to say that word because it really scares people, .  Michael: No, it's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it can be construed. It's true. It can be construed as that. What else?  Susan: Yes. . So with setting things up in your system for the way Dentrix does it, you can also utilize block scheduling for multiple providers. and you can really help your office flow. And meet or exceed your goals consistently on a daily basis. So if you have your providers set up correctly, you can actually implement that into Dentrix on a daily basis, and you can go home at the end of the night and feel like you have really accomplished a good day and that you met your goal. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. The block scheduling I think works pretty, pretty real, really well. You know what I mean? When we know how to utilize that. This is really good. We want to understand how are you setting up your company right from the very GetGo, uh, L L C you said, right? S corp. What  Susan: was that one for? A pc?  Michael: Yes. Pc, yeah. What would you recommend when it comes to those three, the best? Depending on their goals.  Susan: Depending on their goals. if they never wanted to bring an associate, you can set it up as a sole proprietor. , I would advise talking to a C P A to see if there's probably a tax advantage for being an S-corp over all of that self-employment tax. So me, I suggest always going with an S-corp and then credentialing that S-corp. Now, credentialing and contracting are two different things. What's the differe? Credentialing is that background check that the insurance company does to say that you are a licensed dentist in the state that you are wanting to practice. That you have an active license that has no infractions against it, and that you are operating in the scope of that license. So that's the credentialing process. That's why you have to give them your malpractice insurance, a copy of your license, your photocopy of your id, your dea, e. All of that is credentialing and you can be fee for service. But you still have to credential so that you can get paid. They need that W nine with your tax id. They need to know that your tax ID matches your I R s confirmation that you're gonna pay taxes on the income, cuz they're gonna issue you a 10 99 from the insurance company based on that tax id. with. all of that information, I really think that you're gonna see the best results by being an S-corp.  Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So S-corp, if, if anything, right, like right now we're like, okay, we wanna have an associate, you know, we wanna do all these other things that you mentioned. We wanna have an S-corp have the associate in Dentrix as well, right? Yes. Whenever you start bringing them. And  Susan: then And market. Yay. Marketing. Yeah. Yeah.  Michael: And marketing. Inden.  Susan: yes, open dental, Eaglesoft. They all have the ability now to text, email, do campaigns. They can put it out on their website and do a blast. There are so many opportunities to get information out there now, of all the transitions that I've seen over the course of the last, you know, almost two decades that I've had my company. what has been detrimental is not informing people, not letting them know that there is a doctor that is retiring or that the office is selling. they get a feeling of betrayal a little bit. , they get their feelings hurt when there's not transparency there. So I, I'm a huge advocate for marketing the new incoming provider at any stage, you know, even, even if a doctor's, you know, going out for surgery or a doctor is going out from maternity leave. They wanna be included. Not just your staff, but your patients. They wanna feel a little bit of a connection.  Michael: Gotcha. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with that. Like you wanna, you know what I mean, like let them know you're part of the family kind of thing, you know, so. Exactly. Gotcha. Okay. So in a nutshell, these three steps and processes or methods help out specifically how with our, our medical and dental. Susan: getting you paid, you want paid, how are you gonna get paid? You wanna get paid fast, have things in place so that that happens. Mm-hmm. , these three things will help you get there.  Michael: Get paid. Gotcha. Get paid. Awesome. Awesome, Suzanne. Thank you. I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you  Susan: directly? My website is, 180 dental.net. I'm also on Instagram at 180 Dental and Facebook at 180 Dental. Awesome. So they can reach out to me on any social media platform and I primarily work with other dental referrals. I don't have a marketing campaign where I solicit.  Michael: that's good. Referrals is like the best way. You know what? It  Susan: really is. It is. I love, I love what I do and I love my clients. Nice. Wonderful. My team is very good at cleaning up Dentrix databases after a transition or before to get your numbers. So they're real. Yeah, they're trustworthy.  Michael: Gotcha. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. If you wanna reach out to Suzanne and Suzanne, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. Thank  Susan: you. I appreciate it.‍

This Episode is Sponsored By:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareClick the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍Guest: Ross BrannonBusiness Name: Ross Brannon Financial AdvisorCheck out Ross's Media:‍850-566-7999‍Other Mentions and Links:Florida State UniversityMerrill LynchMorgan StanleyRIA - Registered Investment AdvisorParkinson's LawAlly BankBank of AmericaCostcoUsain Bolt 12,000,000 Savings LostDave RamseyDan Sullivan - Why I Don't Believe in RetirementBitcoinDogecoinEssentialism@thedentalmarketer‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍‍My Key Takeaways:If your savings and checking accounts are an iPhone swipe away, they are too close! Try opening accounts at different financial institutions.Always look for testimonials and high quality recommendations when considering a financial advisor.Instead of an end of the year CPA, search for a financial planner for quarterly tax planning.Do not sell your practice to a DSO too early! Owning a cash flowing practice over time can be much better that multiple years of up front revenue in an offer.Have a plan for retirement. If you are aimless in post-retirement plans, it will be an abrupt transition.The difference between a true business owner and a self employed individual, is that the business owner can walk away and it continues to run.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: Hey, are you tired of managing multiple systems and worrying about the security of your patient's? Inform. Well Care Stack has got you covered. It's the ALLIN one cloud-based practice management solution for your practice. Here's a couple reasons why you need to switch over to Care Stack. They, number one, streamline your workflow with appointment scheduling, electronic healthcare records and billing management. Allin one, platform. Number two, not only will you save time, but you'll also improve the quality of patient care by having all the information you need about your patients in one. Number three, and the best part I think is Care Stack is cloud-based, so you and your team can access the information you need from anywhere at any time. Number four, with enhanced security measures in place, you can feel confident that your patient's sensitive information is protected. Five Care Stack is also customizable, guys, so you can tailor it to meet the specific needs of your. Six. It integrates with other tools and systems you already use, such as digital imaging, software and laboratory management systems. And seven, with the user-friendly interface, you and your team will be up and running in no time. These are just a couple reasons why, out of many, many reasons. So invest in your practice success with Care Stack. So go on the show notes below. Click on the first. In the show notes below to schedule a free personalized demo with Care Stack. And if you like what you see, you get the exclusive deal just for being a listener of the podcast. So go in the show notes below, check out what the exclusive deal is, the promotion right now happening with Care Stack, and also at the same time, schedule a free demo with Care Stack. You have nothing to lose, so go check that out. Hey, what's up guys? Welcome back to the Dental Marketer Podcast. I'm your host, Michael aas, and in this episode I'm speaking with Ross Brannan, who's a financial advisor and a strategic wealth specialist, and we dive into some really interesting topics and questions. He does holistic planning and he goes deeper into what that specifically is, and we discuss how there's so many financial planners, advisors out there. So how do we know who to trust and who we're. Take our money. So we dive into that. We also discuss how we can reduce taxes legally and what strategies dentists would appreciate most when it comes to budgeting or accruing wealth and savings. And then we discuss what he hates and loves about dentistry, how he thinks. Every dentist needs a system to ask for referrals, and we dive deeper into that topic and how people weren't really designed to retire, and we also dive deeper into that and what he means by that. So guys, without further delay, here is Ross. Ross, how's it going? Ross: Brighton, Mike, how are  Michael: you? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located right now?  Ross: I'm in Tallahassee, Florida. Oh, nice. So, uh, it, you know, it's, you know, it's January right now and it's 75 degrees in humid. So, uh, we don't really have a winter here.  Michael: Yeah, that sounds nice right now though. You know what I mean? Like in. Like the weather, the degrees, and the heat. But that's all good. That's good. So Ross, tell me a little bit about your past, your present. How'd you get to where you are today? So  Ross: I grew up in Atlanta. Uh, and I went to play football and scholarship at Florida State University back in the mid nineties, mid to late nineties. Uh, came to Florida State, had a lot of success. Um, started. On a national championship winning team in 1999, unfortunately had six knee surgeries while I was playing at F S U, so I didn't finish my career, but, uh, ended up staying in Tallahassee. Ended up marrying a local girl, now have five kids and two dogs. And I was a client of the firm that I'm a part of now, and I'd always been kind of financially minded and they kind of saw that so. Asked me to come work with them. And that was many years ago. Uh, and, and then, you know, I, as I'm working as a financial advisor, I work with a friend who's an orthodontist, and next thing you know, he introduces me to his college roommate who's a, who's a general dentist. And the snowball effect happens. And next thing you know, I've got dentists all over the country as clients and, uh, it's just kind of where I started focusing. Gotcha.  Michael: So your area of expertise is,  Ross: So I do personal financial planning for dentists now, and, and that's, that's a little bit different. Um, you know, cause I do holistic planning, so it's a little bit different than the traditional financial advisor. So to kind of educate people, there's a couple different silos in the financial advisor world. You have probably the majority of people are what's called assets that are management, you know, Might be a Merrill Lynch, it might be a, uh, Morgan Stanley, it might be an independent r i a, which stands for Registered Investment Advisor. And all they do is gather assets. So you really don't, they won't talk to you typically unless you have half a million dollars or more. And they will ma help you manage your money. And that's investment accounts, IRAs, things like that. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's, that's definitely a, they, they do, they help a lot of people then you. Maybe like the Northwestern Mutuals who do a little, a little more insurance work, what might be disability or life insurance. And then there's, there's very few, but I, I think it's probably the best. It's kind of what's you see as some, practices and advisors that integrate both insurance and investments, but then you find even less who really do planning. So a lot of times planning is basically planning around the facilitation of a financial product. Now we all need financial products. That's not bad. Is it really planning? So when we talk about holistic planning, the question is, what does that mean? Well, that means looking at everything that your money touches. So it could be something as boring as auto insurance, something as complex as legal in the state documents. or something as as practical as how much money you save and where you save it. And oh, by the way, if you're saving money in a checking account, that's great. Nobody gets paid on that, and that's why nobody talks about that. But that's something you have to talk about because having liquidity and saving money is a big deal.  Michael: Yeah, that was a big deal, especially like two years ago, right in the middle of everything where everything was like covid and stuff like that. So holistic planning is everything your. Touches. So is that kind of like when we sit down and we are doing a budget, we're like, okay, where's our money coming out of? Like where? We're in debt. Well, yeah.  Ross: so I've got some strong opinions on lots of topics. Budgeting is one of them. I, I don't think what I call spreadsheet budgeting works very well unless you're an engineer. And I'm not an engineer, and most people aren't engineers. Some people are. And so I'll ask people, Hey, what does it cost you live? What's your burn rate every month? And they'll be like, they'll look at me like I'm an alien. They have no idea. . So let's suppose their burn rate to $20,000 a month. Mm-hmm. . And let's suppose they bring home after tax $30,000 a month. And I'll say, okay, you're saving 10 grand a month. Right. They, they in look at me like I'm an alien, so I'm not here to put you on beans and rice. And if you're a dentist, you probably don't need to be. Some, some might, but you probably don't need to be. And so it's like, let's create a cash flow structure. that makes sense and works for you. the typical cash flow structure is all your check goes in your check account, you spend what's there, whatever's left over you save. And that's typically not very much.  Michael: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I feel like that's what we, we kind of tend to do a lot. So then let's do that. Let's build a cash flow structure. What does that look  Ross: like? So because expenses rise to mean income, it's Parkinson's law. So that would mean something as simple as, okay, I have a dedicated account somewhere else, and that account, my check goes into that account. Let's just use my numbers of 20 and 30 as an example. $20,000 goes down to that, or $30,000 goes to that account. I need 20 a live. So that account then transfers 20 year checking account to live. And so now I'm automatically, by default, saving 10,000. . Mm. And so then every month it adds up. It adds up. So you build enough of a rainy day fund for whatever you need, that four. Then once it starts getting to a certain level, then you start saving. Then you start deploying that money to other investments. Too many people they're only savings as a 401K or something like that and, and then there's plenty of people listening saying, oh, I saved more than that, but I can promise you you're not saving as much as you could be or should. So  Michael: how can we do that? What, what, because you're kind of talking about , you're also talking about me here. Like, I'm like, oh my everybody. Exactly. Yeah. It's a, it's a human being thing. It, it's exactly what I do. Like, I, I, and there's something in me where I'm like, I don't wanna see my checking account ever hit a specific number kind of thing, right. And I can allocate whatever left I have to savings and other things like that. But, . So you're saying have a specific account, make all the money go there, then by default, take out what you need to live.  Ross: Yes. And they do not, they cannot be at the same financial institution. So for example, if you Bank of a Bank of America, you can't have two checking accounts or saving the account of checking account, run next to each other because it's only an iPhone. Swipe away. Yeah. I closed my savings account at my bank because it was just an iPhone swipe away. So you had, they have to be at separate financial institu. And what you do is you have the money. So if you bank of a Bank of America, you set up, you know, let's suppose you put, oh, your check goes into some online account. Let's call it Ally. Let's suppose your check goes to Ally. You don't have Ally. Push the money, you have Bank of America pull the money that way it avoids a fee.  Michael: Mm. Okay. Okay. I like this. So then if we're not pro like spreadsheet budget, Where do we start? For example? Let's just say, so,  Ross: uh, continue. Here's what I do. Okay? I'll go, what's, okay? What's your car payment? Uh, it's $560 for the month. Well, then I round up and call it 600 bucks. Okay. What do you spend on your cell phone? It's $213. That's two 50. And just round up, create a built-in fudge factor. Just go through every expense. What is gas? Well, gas is obviously a variable expense. Let's go on the high side. What is grocer? , let's go on the high side. Therefore, we have a 500 to a thousand dollars fudge factor built in because there's always things that come up. all right, so maybe your real cost will be is 9,000, but we're saying it's 10,000. And so we build that fudge factor in. Now you still have to be aware, cognizant of how much you're swiping, cuz nobody pays for cash anymore. you gotta be careful how much you click the Amazon button. so that's like legalized crack, that Amazon button. Um, yeah, it's so, so we have to do that now if you're a higher income person, because for dentists you mean, you've got dentists making, lower income, and then you've got dentists who are making much higher income. But if you're a higher income dentist, uh, the best way to save is to reduce your tax liability, to reduce the amount of taxes you owe. And then to the, the typical response is, I'm doing the best I can. My CPA says I am. and I would argue, no, you're not. More than likely you're not, because most CPAs don't do tax planning. Most CPAs prepare tax returns. That's what you're paying them to do. There are the rare tax planning CPAs, many of whom I know. Um, , but if you're not meeting with your C B A on a quarterly basis, you're not doing tax planning. that doesn't mean they're bad or they're a bad person. It's just the average C P A probably has 500 clients and, uh, you know, maybe five or 10% or less. are the super high income business owners. The rest are W2 employees, and so they aren't motivated to go learn advanced tax reduction techniques for the minority. It's just human nature. And so you have to begin to think outside of the box because we've been conditioned to think, oh, I have to pay what I have to pay. And uh, I was looking at a client case today. This guy makes $5 million a year. and through proper tax planning, it looks very likely that he'll be able to save a million dollars in tax if he implements the strategies that are available. Mm-hmm. , so there's a couple things there. Everyone's situation is different, so that doesn't mean that's you. and it requires work and you have to do certain things. So, When this is presented to this individual, he may not like the strategy for X, Y, and Z reason, and that's fine, but he just won't get the tax benefit from it.  Michael: Gotcha. When it comes to that, what strategies have you noticed that are more popular? More what more dentists would appreciate, and ones that are  Ross: like, eh, Well, it all depends. So the, so obviously the, the low hanging for the easy one is a 401k, so you can put, you know, up to 60 some odd thousand dollars into a 401k with, um, the profit sharing, uh, portion of it. And, and that's, that's a deduction. That's, that's right away. It's easy. you could then go on top of that with a cash balance plan. The way a cash balance plan works though, it's dependent on the census, meaning the age and demographics of your, your employees. So the older you are, the better. So if you're older and your employees are younger, it's better. But if you're 28 years old and all your employees are 45, it will not work. The numbers just don't make sense. So those are some low hanging fruit ones. Uh, there are some more advanced strategies that Some of them are, they're all a little more outside the box, but they are, uh, they work and you people just have to have an open mind and learn about 'em and see how they feel about 'em once they, once, once they hear  Michael: about ' em. Like what are some of those? The out of  Ross: the box ones? Well, there's certain charitable strategies that you could do. So you could do, uh, and obviously this is not a recommendation cuz everyone's situation's different. So you could do a charitable remainder trust and there's all different variations of. . so that that could be something. there are, uh, certain types of, um, investments that have, deductions tied to them. and so, yeah, and I'm, I'm speaking generally for the purposes of, you know, just cuz I don't want people to think I'm making recommendation mm-hmm. , but it really comes down to everyone's fact pattern is differently. So, . I'm 45. I have five children. I live in Florida. My situation is uniquely different than yours. You're younger than me. You live in California. every dentist situation is different, but if you are a high income earner, there are situations where advanced planning strategies can make sense and could potentially reduce your tax.  Michael: Yeah. Cause I think that's something that we all wanna, , all wanna do as much as possible, reduce taxes. Well, well,  Ross: I would argue the highest rate of return you're ever gonna receive is a dollar taken back from the irs. The second highest rate of return, in my opinion, is investing in your business. So there's no financial product or widget that I can offer you that is going to give you a higher return than those two. Yeah.  Michael: I feel like, um, when it comes to your type of planning, right? Um, cuz you do personal financial planning, right? Not holistic planning,  Ross: right? Well, holistic, it's, it's p holistic is personal. So we're looking at everything  Michael: here. So when you're looking at everything, and maybe a practice owner also does separate things, right? Maybe they have investments in real estate, things like that. are those things like you recommend that or not? Maybe not recommend, but you're like, oh, that, that looks good. When it comes to reducing  Ross: taxe. ? Well, there are definitely benefits to real estate. You know, obviously if you own your building, there are some tax reduction strategies with that, depending on the specifics of your building. real estate tends to be a very good financial asset. but you, you don't wanna just go buy it just because it's real estate. You get the numbers gonna make sense. You need to make sure, it makes sense as a part of your overall plan. Just buying blindly. Buying real estate isn't always the best thing, but buying real estate. Can be very, very good.  Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And you mentioned something called fudge factor. Break it down at me. What is that?  Ross: Well, I, you know, if I say it costs me $10,000 a month to live, there's always going to be, an unplanned expense. does it matter what it's, and so if I'm saying it costs me, $250 for gas for the month. I'm rounding up to $300 just to build a, a cushion of another $50 in the overall, budget. So if I put a fudge factor in over 15 items of like 60 or 70 bucks, that adds up. All of a sudden. Now it's like, okay, I got, I built in roughly a thousand dollars of. Cushion in case the numbers are office month, cuz the numbers are never gonna be exact. Mm.  Michael: I like that, that, that helps me a little bit, my, I guess my mind to be put at ease because I feel like every time our numbers aren't exact, I'm like, where are we going wrong? What am I doing? You know what I mean? Kind of thing. And  Ross: well, and the prices are going up. Yeah. We've had inflation the last year, so it's like, you know, the same thing. Doesn't cost the same thing. That's true.  Michael: Yeah, you're right. I remember going to Costco and I was like, I'm getting the same stuff I've always gotten. Why is it, you know what I mean? More, but,  Ross: well, just, Costco has, they put fairy dust in their stores and it makes you buy stuff that you wouldn't normally buy. Next thing you know, it's like $700 and you're like, what? What just happened? ? Michael: That's uh, that's so true, man. I don't know why that happens. I have, I have a question. . I don't know if you saw this about Ussein Bolt, right? But we were talking about it, us in a couple, a lot of us price owners and dentists not that long ago, where he depended on a financial company, right. Personal finance, something like that. And they kind of ran with it and took his money and so,  Ross: oh, that happens all the time to professional athletes.  Michael: how do we know who we can trust when it comes to personal financial?  Ross: Well, I mean, you can do a FINRA broker check and, and I'm, I'm looking up you saying Bolt right now, just so now mm-hmm. Um, you can do a FINRA broker check. oh. Yeah, there you go. I see it right there. so you can do a FINRA broker check. That's not always going to, um, tell you the whole story, but I'll tell you if there's any complaints or anything on that. Um, obviously a high quality recommendation from somebody. anytime you are working with somebody, you know, you know, if you're making a kind of a non, non-traditional investment, you wanna make sure there's a lot of due diligence done. So I like, I don't know what kind of investment account he has. or he had, but uh, you know, those people are probably gonna go to jail if they get caught. What is he gonna get? His 12.7 million back is a different conversation. But, FINRA broker check, any outside the norm Investments I would require, I would, I would, make sure there's lots of due diligence on it. Many times you'll hear about these great ideas that there's no due diligence on it. And then, you know, , ask for, uh, recommendations, ask for testimonials from, you know, you're dealing, you're talking to John Doe, financial advisor. He's, he's trying to make you his client, ask for, um, testimonials from some of his clients.  Michael: Okay. That's good. And then when would you recommend as a good time to start? Let's just say I'm a startup practice. I'm a, have $700,000 in debt. Right. Um, when would it be a good time? Break even, or a little bit before that, once I reach a certain amount, when would be a good time to start doing this holistic planning. Well,  Ross: most people don't really get serious about their money until they have a kid. that that's how typically most people work. But if you buy a practice, you know, obviously the first year or two you're just kind of swimming upstream. Once you feel like you've at least kind of got your head above water, it's probably time to at least start having a conversation with somebody just to get a, a few of the basics taken care. Michael: Okay. Okay. And that's like where we can reach out to you or somebody like that, right?  Yeah. You  Ross: reach out to me or somebody else. But I mean, there's just certain things you should make sure you do, from a personal planning standpoint. But I realize most people in that situation, they're so focused on just trying to get things going. They don't have the mental bandwidth for something like that at that point, typically. Yeah,  Michael: because I feel like sometimes you just. Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna do a 401K or ira, and then I have a savings, then I have a checking, and then I'll just keep racking it up. Right? Why is that not a good idea?  Ross: Well, okay, so should you put money, let's just uses pick on the ira. So you're 27 years old, you have a, you're a brand new practice. Should you put money on ira? Well, everyone says start saving for retirement and, and what's funny? . I had someone in my office, they were talk and they had just finished school, finished, uh, dental school, and they were talking about saving for retirement. And I said to them, you're already start talking about quitting your job before you even started it. so I, I'm not a big retirement guy. If you read the history of retirement, it's, it's kind of a made up thing in the 20th century. Mm-hmm. , um, no one's ever retire. and most people when they retire, it doesn't go well. But that's another topic for another day. But so you're 27 years old, you put money in a retirement account, which means you cannot touch it until you're 59 and a half. What's more important at 27 years old than new practice money that you can't touch for 32 years or money in a savings account for a rainy day? And they're like, absolutely, well, I'm not gonna save for retirement. Which by the way, you don't just use retirement accounts for retirement, use all, all of your assets, all of your investments. And so not putting whatever amount you were gonna put in for the first couple years is not gonna change your retirement, whatever that looks like. But, Not taking on credit card debt cuz you don't have enough cash flow or, cash or, not being able to buy a house cuz you don't have enough cash. That's tough. I mean, I, I mean there's doctor loans out there, but still you, you need liquidity and, and enough savings.  Michael: Gotcha. So then what do you recommend then for that 27 year old Right. Who just opened another practice? Like what moves can we make  Ross: stash? oh, I'm not making any interest on my cash. That's correct. Not all your dollars are supposed to make in, are supposed to earn interest. You need to have a rainy day fund. What happens if I have no liquidity and all of a sudden my breaks go out? And by no liquidity, I mean no savings. I have no my, my breaks squad. I gotta get no breaks. What does that cost? if, what if I need new tires? . life will throw all sorts of things at you that cost money and we need liquidity to do that. So, more often than not, there are some people who have too much savings, but usually it's people who have too little savings, not too much. Hmm,  Michael: gotcha. So when it comes to the too much savings part, let's just say we stash cash, we're like, okay, we, we can cover enough for like the breaks to go out a million times, right. Or whatever. What do we do now do? Is that when we start with like our,  Ross: well, I think you need to determine what I call your peace of mind number. So what does it take you to sleep well at night? Okay. Is it 50,000? Is it 10,000? Is it a hundred thousand? It's a different number for every people. For every person, so you know, whatever that number is. Anything over and above that, I would start deploying to an investment. and there's obviously millions of types of investments. The most, the easiest one is just to set up a brokerage account, whether it's through an advisor or through yourself and, and start putting money in there. But there's a million different ways to deploy capital.  Michael: Gotcha. And so that's where we can kind of come in and be like, Hey, Ross, like, what should I do? Right. Like, look at my stuff. Yeah.  Ross: Yeah. I mean, that, that's one of the many things that I do. So, um, but there, there's a lot of things that quite frankly, have to be done before.  Michael: Does anybody ever go to you when they're like, I'm drowning in depth. I have no idea where these holes are coming from, or I kind of can tell, I'm like, I'm not even living with a life that I want, or whatever. What, what am I doing wrong? Does anybody ever go for you?  Ross: Um, they have on occasion, to be honest with you. I, I can help those people with something. Really, what I focus on though, and if you're drowning in debt, just listening to someone like Dave Ramsey probably makes sense. Now, I don't agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, but he helps a lot of people. I think the challenge with him is some people listen to him when he's not the demographic he's, he's reaching to, but he helps a lot of people who are in debt. Um, so, but you know, really if you're a high income I dentist, you know, that's typically where I tend to really help people the most  Michael: and that's where you help them with allocating to. Ross: Places, well, it's making, making sure their cash is going the right places, making sure that they're talking with the right tax professionals to mitigate their taxes. I'm not a C P A, I'm not an enrolled agent. I do know an a fair amount about taxes, but there are tax attorneys and there are tax professionals that, um, I connect my people with my clients with to make sure they are, paying the least amount of taxes. Michael: Gotcha. That's interesting. Okay, so then Ross, what can a dentist do today to improve their business?  Ross: So, that's a really good question. So there is this continuum that I say for dentists. So, uh, on one side you have dentists who basically own a job. These are all people who their own, their own practice. Dentists who own, own, own their job. It's a good job, but they own. Their job. Then you have dentists on the opposite extreme who are business owners who happen to be dentists. So for example, like I have a friend, he wa, he practices two days a week. It's a fee for service practice. He makes 2 million a year. He is a business owner that is a dentist. I've got numerous clients and friends who make more than that and they're business owners. And then there are some who. , own a job. It's a good job. And there's, and owning a job and being a business owner, one is not better than the other, but it's what do you want? Now, obviously most people are in the, between, in the middle. But what do you want? you wanna be a business owner, maybe you don't have the skills to do that will go educate yourself, find a mentor, and learn how to be a business owner and, and grow your practice because this is the greatest. Way to create wealth in America is owning a business and a dental practice is a business.  Michael: Gotcha. And I feel like a lot of people might mainly want to do that. They want to own their, they wanna be the business owner, you know what I mean? Um, yeah. But  Ross: a lot of people are very shortsighted and they make a critical mistake, which you're gonna ask me about here in a minute. What is that? They'd sell out. The DSO is way too young. They, they're giving away the golden goose. So I have a cash register. In my basement that throws off whatever amount of money a year, and now I sell it for five to seven years of cash production, and it's gone forever. So if I'm a dentist, I make a million bucks a year, I sell my practice and I get 7 million. I don't do tax planning, I get murdered on taxes. and now I am no longer a business owner. I'm a W2 employee. I've lost all my deductions. I'm making half of what I was, and I'm basically somebody's employee and I can't do what I want. I had a guy, he, so he was 47 years old. He sold his practice for like 10 million bucks and he says, I said to him, Hey, now you sold your practice. What are you gonna do? He goes, I'm gonna manage my investments. And I looked at him dead in the eye and I said, brother, you ain't that. Unless you're day trading. And, uh, you know, he's heard me say this story before on podcasts. He's like, were you talking about me? I was like, yeah, I was talking about you. And he is like, man, I wish I hadn't sold. It's the biggest mistake I ever made.  Michael: So then when, where is it? Where is it? Where it's like, now it's okay to sell?  Ross: Well, first of all, Do you wanna sell for the highest dollar? If you do, you're selling to a D S L. You're not selling to an associate or somebody else. Second of all, I don't believe in retirement. I believe in transition. What are you gonna do next? If you don't have a plan after you sell, you're gonna go freaking insane. I've seen people who have gone into deep depression after they retired because they're, they didn't have have anything planned. If you're gonna sit home and watch TV or watch Netflix or whatever brother you have, you might as well just go ahead and start buying your, uh, your coffin. I mean, people were not designed to retire. If retire means do nothing, you have to have a plan. Second of all, a lot of people don't realize how long they're gonna live. Most people, higher educated and higher income people live. Those are the facts. Whether they're fair or not is besides the point. There is a high probability that most people are gonna live to a hundred years old. Well, 10 million at 47 acts pretty hard to get to a hundred years old. But the longer you work, the less money you need. Not suggesting you should go spend all your money, but what are you gonna do? So you gotta have a plan. Maybe you decide that you want to go. change careers, that's fine. just don't sell because you got some crazy number. What if you decide to build your business bigger and then sell for twice as much in 10 years? Yeah,  Michael: I feel like sometimes. So then what? What is the driving factor that in your experience, that you've seen people sell to  Ross: soon? Well, a lot of people hate their job. there's a lot of dentists who hate being dentists. There's also a lot of dentists who hate managing people. and that, you know, cuz in dental school you don't learn, you don't learn business, you just learn clinical. Mm-hmm. And I've seen people try to sell a practice cuz they hate managing people. so that's a challenge. And but I mean, as a dentist you are starting late. You went to, you went to four years, four, at least four extra years of school, you likely incurred a large amount of debt. So you're late to the party when it comes to saving. So these are things that we, we've gotta make sure that we think through. Just cuz you heard someone get some great, some great multiple, doesn't mean you're gonna get that same multiple. It's not the same situation and you may hate your three to five year earnout, and then you may walk away and lose all that money, which I've heard numerous stories of it. Michael: Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Okay, so then. We really, really need to brainstorm on this, right? Like, think about it. What are we gonna be doing after? If you're ready to retire? Are you even sure you should be retiring right now.  Ross: So anyone who wants to think of the word retirement, they should Google the name Dan Sullivan and Retirement. Dan Sullivan is the founder of Strategic Coach and he does a lot of, he's talked a lot about retirement and what it really means and what it is. Mm-hmm. . , I think we've been conditioned about this whole concept of retirement and I don't buy it. I don't ever wanna retire. Mm-hmm. , my dad had a force retirement. He was a good saver, so he was okay financially, but he retired in his early fifties and I saw him over the next 20 years physically and cognitively declined to be a shell of himself. I saw that. I was like, I ain't doing that no interest whatsoever. I'm never stopping working. I mean, I may do something else, but I'm not stopping working.  Michael: Yeah. No, no, no. But I mean, like, what do you mean by like your dad? He became Michelle like, he's like,  Ross: well, he is physically, he's so frail. It's not because he's so is 75 years old. Even he is still alive cognitively, he's not using his brain. Your brain's a muscle. He watches TV all day and he is, you know, he's just a parrot of what's ever on tv. He can't have an intellectual conversation. it is just, it's no way to live. Yeah. So I I'm not doing that.  Michael: Yeah, no, I get you. I get you. I, I don't, I don't ever think. I don't ever think I can just stand still and, um, you know what I mean? Like, just be there. It's like your brain's constantly like, oh, this idea has to, has to happen right now, you know, kind of thing. And you build it, do something, uh, conversation. So I agree. You said Dan Sullivan Retirement.  Ross: Yeah. Google those three things. Okay. Dan Sullivan's the founder of Strategic Coach and it's a phenomenal program I would probably recommend any dentist, any business owner, consider it. Okay. So, all right. So the, if you type, if you type Dan Sullivan retirement into Google, it's not Sullivan Retirement Resource. The first one. It is the second link. It's why I don't Believe In Retirement by Dan Sullivan. Okay.  Michael: Okay. It's gonna put a link to that in the show notes below so you guys can, can also read about it. Check it out. I'm gonna read about it. Check it out. You know what I mean? Oh, oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Okay. So. These next questions, Ross, are just to get into the head of, of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry. Right. Okay. So for you, what would you like to see more from a dentist?  Ross: Well, it's hard for me not to go back to the start thinking like a business owner. . So you start thinking like a business owner. And I think that enhances the overall practice in so many ways. It enhances the lives of the staff because if you start thinking like the business owner, you start creating more revenue. And now you can also, as you create more revenue, you can start paying your people more. You can start rewarding them more. and so I think that I is a really important idea. And the, and the bigger you go, the more people you. . Do you feel  Michael: like sometimes dentists think they're thinking like a business owner, but there's signs that  Ross: they're not? I think everyone who owns a business many times thinks they, they're thinking it and, and they may be missing them both, even you and I. So, um, the question is to really be a business, can you walk away and still continue? versus being self-employed. so the example I gave someone practicing two days a week, he's got two or three associates. If he walked away completely, he may not make money he's making, but he is still doing really well.  Michael: compared to someone who can walk away. Okay. And then right. What do you hate about dentistry? What do you not really like at all about dentistry?  Ross: Okay. At the risk of offending people, uh, I don't like that they're sheep and that kind of comes up harsh, but they all do the same thing. They all join the same club. They all get the same Facebook group. If one person says it, they all. . It's like if one person says by Bitcoin, then all of Bitcoin was bought by Dennis . I'm, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly, I'm making a broad brush, uh, generalization, but they tend to they just tend to all do the same thing. and they trust anybody who is a dentist or a former dentist, and there are some people out there who are, you know, dentists and they give recommendations to people and they're just not good or they just immediately trust them because they are a dentist. or a former dentist or whatever. And I mean, not that these people are bad people, but you just have to be a little wiser and smarter about what you do. Um, you can't just join something or be a part of something or trust somebody just because they do what you do. And you know that, that might be a little unfair on my part because, you know, there is a, a, probably a fraternal feel. To someone in your industry, but, you just wanna, I mean, and I'm not saying that they're bad groups or bad people, but don't just do it because everyone else will do it. Start to think a little bit contrarian, if that makes sense. So I'm not trying to disparage anyone individually, I'm just saying people need to think for themselves and not just follow the crowd. Gotcha. You see that pretty. I mean, I've seen a fair amount of times and, uh, I view jokes to, uh, some of the, some, some, uh, dentists. I said, you know, there I met like a few guys from, one certain Facebook group and I said, oh, that, that group's a cult. And they just started laughing. And so, uh, so it's kind of funny. Michael: Okay. Okay. And then right now, what do you love about dentistry?  Ross: I love that. I love that it's an opportunity to build a business. I was talking to a. a senior in, in, in college, and he wanted to go be, he wanted to go be a doctor, a physician. I said, dude, go be a dentist. You'll make twice as much money. And most physicians are W two earners. and they gotta go to med school, then they gotta do a residency versus dentist. You know, you're, you're a business owner and so you have the ability to make so much more. You're not getting. , your pay cut by insurance reimbursements. Obviously dental insurance has its challenges, but nothing like medical insurance. and so it's just an incredible opportunity to create wealth. Owning a business is a great way to create wealth.  Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then right now, what, when it comes to, I guess, building wealth, pieces of advice, can you give us like instructions when it comes to, uh, building that  Ross: well, I would assume everyone who's listening has heard of Warren Buffet, and he says, the number one habit to acquire is the habit of thrift. What does he mean by that? He means savings. Save your money so I can prove your savings rate is more important than your rate of return. So saving 20 or 25% or 30% of income is more important than getting 10, 11, 12%. Now, you do wanna get a rate of return on your money, don't get me wrong, but you wanna save at a high savings rate, first. So save money. Now, obviously you need to invest it, but save your money.  Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So. Save it as much  Ross: as you, let's, let's, okay, let's, let's deal with the problem of too much savings versus having too little savings. So if I told everyone listening, don't do a thing with your money until you get a hundred thousand dollars in the bank. There'd be a lot of people who have have to stop doing what they're doing until they get a hundred thousand dollars in the bank. So let's save our money. There's lots of places to deploy capital, but we need to have a lot of cash on. Michael: Yeah, I, I, I think it's, uh, I think it's Ramit Safety from that book. I will teach you to be rich where he is like, saving isn't sexy, but it's like the best thing we can kind of do. Right. Just like, just put it in there and that's it. just don't move it. But we get that shiny object syndrome sometimes where we're like, what? Oh, they're doing this. We gotta do that, and then we gotta do that. And we got, you know what I mean, kind of thing.  Ross: It's like what Elon tweeted about Dogecoin, let me go buy $10,000 worth Doge Dogecoin, which is the same thing as lighting my money on fire.  Michael: I fell into that and then I was like, uh, it's there now. It's, you know what I mean? But you're right. It's the, it would've been better just to save it way, way better. So I get you a hundred percent. Awesome. Any final pieces of advice that you wanna give to our listen?  Ross: No, I mean, nothing at all. Just, I mean, there's a lot of advice that's kind of in silos out there and, and really you want to get advice that's kind of, like I said earlier, more holistic. So that's the ideal scenario. obviously everyone has some things are trying true no matter what. Some things are opinion, but you want to mathematically verify whatever you're talking about. So let's weigh and measure decisions so we know. What the right decision is.  Michael: Gotcha. Awesome. Awesome. Ross, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being with us, and if anyone has any questions, where can they find you?  Ross: Two places. One ross brennan.com. The site's getting rebuilt. It's, it's sufficient for now. It's getting rebuilt though, so if it's not as sexy as you like, please forgive me. Um, but ross brennan.com or you can call me or text me. Uh, I, I, I answer every phone call. I'm not afraid of the phone. Uh, eight five oh five six six seven nine nine nine eight five oh five six six seven nine nine  Michael: nine. Awesome. So that's gonna be the show notes below. And Ross, thank you for being with us. It was a pleasure. And we'll hear from you soon. Thank you  Ross: so. Michael: Thank you guys so much for tuning into that episode. And Ross, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast. We truly appreciate it. Guys, if you wanna reach out to him or you wanna talk about this episode or any other episode in the past, you can definitely do so two ways, actually. You can do it on our Instagram. Just search us under the Dental marketer. That's our handle. You can find us there. Or second, you can join the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group. It's a free Facebook group. It's gonna be in the show notes below the link to that. You can definitely talk to the guests who've been on this podcast, or you can talk to other guests who've been on other episodes in this podcast as well on there and ask any questions or concerns. But thank you guys so much for tuning in and don't forget to check out Care Stack. More and more people are signing on because it's an in. Cloud-based practice management software. So click the first link in the show notes below to see more and schedule a free personalized demo. And you can see all the exclusive deals that, uh, you're gonna get as well in that link in the show notes below. So if you're just nosing, you wanna check that out, go ahead and check that out. All right guys, so the book is called Essentialism by Greg Macallan, and the quote is, pause Before You Speak. It can greatly reduce the possibility of making a commit. You'll regret. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in, and I'll talk to you in the next episode.‍

This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental Lab‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: meetdandy.com/tdm !‍‍Guest: Kevin CumbusBusiness Name: Tusk PartnersCheck out Kevin's Media:LinkedinFacebook‍Other Mentions and Links:Heartland DentalEBITDA - Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and AmortizationEaglesoftExcelE*TradeBear StearnsAffordable DenturesDr. Rick Workman‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍‍My Key Takeaways:You do not have to own multiple practices to be successful!Revenue is a secondary thought for buyers. Ultimately they want to see positive EBITDA and cashflow in your practice.Sometimes selling a negative EBITDA practice can help your portfolio in the long run!Using the newest tech to inform patients what is going on in their mouth can make treatment much more palatable.With worry about the upcoming economy state, if planning to sell in the next 12-18 months, selling sooner could be the right choice for your practice.It is possible to have millions in revenue and no profitability. Watch out for this when evaluating your practice!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.

This Episode is Sponsored By:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareClick the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍Guest: Lejla StreetsPractice Name: Smiles in the PinesCheck out Lejla's Media:‍Instagram: @smiles_in_the_pinesFacebook Page‍Other Mentions and Links:Jaws: The Story of a Hidden EpidemicBreath: The New Science of a Lost ArtProfit FirstDentrixEaglesoftBigcom HealthcareTricare InsuranceBank of AmericaWells Fargo@thedentalmarketer‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Infancy is the stage to start screening for future sleep apnea issues!For an older demographic, running an ad in the local newspaper might be a better strategy than all social media.Sometimes just offering different services isn't enough to differentiate from your competition!Try having separate meetings for admin and clinical planning and processes.Be understanding with parents concerned about upcoming surgery on their children! This can be a scary concept for them.Collaborating with local chiropractors, physical therapists, and lactation professionals can be a great way to broaden your offerings!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

Download any of these forms and templates mentioned in this episode here: DOWNLOAD INSURANCE TEMPLATES & FORMS‍In this episode, Khoa Nguyen, from Verifixed, shows us some of his favorite tips for efficiency, mindset, and effectiveness when handling insurance claims! Khoa notes that we need to start thinking of lower reimbursement rates on insurance claims as a marketing expense. When we are out of network with insurances, we do not have access to their patient-base! When claims are denied, Khoa recommends getting a live person on the phone from the insurance company. If you use this method for all of your appeals and focus of what you know, rather than accusing, the insurance company agents will likely help you out. It is also wise to keep track of specific information on your patient's benefit breakdown to ensure a smooth appeal.Drop in on Michael and Khoa's conversation here to learn more about insurance tips and best practices!‍You can reach out to Khoa Nguyen here:Email: info@verifixed.net‍Other Mentions and Links:VerifixedKhoa's Previous MMM EpisodeMetlife InsuranceDelta Dental InsuranceCigna Insurance‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Our Sponsors & Their Exclusive Deals:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareSCHEDULE A FREE DEMO TODAY!Click the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍Thank you for supporting the podcast by checking out our sponsors!‍

This Episode is Sponsored By:CARESTACK | Cloud-Based Dental SoftwareClick the link below and get 1 MONTH FOR FREE + 10% OFF your Annual Subscription + 50% OFF Your Set-up Fee!Check out CARESTACK now: https://lp.carestack.org/thedentalmarketer‍‍Guest: Nkemakonam EgolumPractice Name: Bowie Oral SurgeryCheck out Nkemakonam's Media:‍Instagram: @dr.egolumYouTube ChannelFacebook PageLinkedin Page‍Other Mentions and Links:EssentialismHoward UniversityHoward University HospitalBank of AmericaWells Fargo@thedentalmarketer‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:In the medical field, insurance tends to dictate how treatment is performed. Try not to be overly swayed by insurance in your practice!No matter how good you are at something, rushing procedures puts a strain on quality.Try being self-motivated! You do not need outside approval and affirmation for all of your practice decisions.Nothing beats a personal lunch or dinner with potential referring dentists.Many referring dentists would rather meet you as the Dr. rather than a sales person advocating for you.Permitting is highly time consuming with a practice buildout. Be sure to be proactive and speak with the permitting personnel often!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍

Why do people journal? How can journaling be helpful? What can I learn from my journaling? What should I write in my journal? How do I journal? How do I start journaling? In this episode of Love Always, Self, Karista & Shyra utilizing the self care modality of journaling/recording as a resource for guidance.  Shyra shares a personal example of reflection, self-observation, and taking responsibility for the creation of her experiences.  Insights gained through previous journaling practices can be a valuable source of wisdom when we feel like we've lost our way or need a reminder of our power as creators of our realities. Journaling can not only assist us in reflecting in the immediate moment, but can also provide reminders of what has progressed in our lives & within us, and can overtime garner old insights which present itself as relevant in the future.  Karista & Shyra dive deeper into: How to start journaling Automatic writing; what is it and how to practice it How to connect & develop a relationship with your guides through journaling How to utilize your journal for future guidance : Other Mentions: 30 Day Journal - Amazon  Selfie Stick, 40 inch Extendable Selfie Stick Tripod  : Episode Suggestions: Episode 73: Shifting Perspectives: Deciding On The Perspective Episode 67: The Power of Meditating; Does Meditation Improve Health? Episode 45: Taking Responsibility For Your Triggers Episode 34: Do We Create Our Own Suffering? Episode 23: Get Down and Ground; The Benefits of Practicing Grounding Episode 21: Is It Spiritual or Is It Science? // A Correlation Between Science and Spirituality Episode 11: Affirm Your Reality; Differences Between Affirmations & Afformations : Social Media:  Website - https://www.lovealwaysself.com/ Linktree - https://linktr.ee/lovealwaysself Have a topic you'd like us to discuss? Email Us!: contact@lovealwaysself.com  : #love #spiritual #spirituality #growth #journal #journaling #awareness #observation #reflect #divinetiming #selfreflections #reflectionsofself #howtojournal #whattojournal #Source #dream #dreamjournal #dreamjournaling #opentoreceive #breathe #breathingexercises #lovealwaysself #lovealwaysselfpodcast   *Disclaimer: Love Always, Self, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.